00:00:00
This is exactly right. The original best blanket ever. Your husband is not who you think he is.
00:00:38
Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history.
00:00:44
I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:00:51
He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off.
00:00:57
And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06
Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people. Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
00:01:14
She trained in something called neurolinguistic programming. People loved our training.
00:01:19
Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
00:01:26
A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
00:01:33
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:56
Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. This is a true crime comedy podcast. Listen, you've heard it before.
00:02:05
Look. You know and look and listen and love it. You do this. We do this part. You do that part.
00:02:11
It always starts the same, but with different words. But you always get confused every time.
00:02:16
You must be reintroduced. You know, there's a lot of people in the podcasting game.
00:02:20
They feel it's very important that at the top of your podcast, you establish what the name of your show is and what the theme of that show is also always and
00:02:31
that's karen kilgarrow and that's georgia hartstark we never do that part we forget that part and
00:02:35
that's why everybody thinks we're the other person exactly uh-huh but we're not we're the other
00:02:41
person it's very weird to both of us that you ever would be mistaken that's right about who we are
00:02:47
because we are so into ourselves that we can't imagine that there's any quality about us that
00:02:51
is like anyone else in the world. No, we're such individuals. Truly, truly unique.
00:02:59
I have a cat on my lap. Karen has coffee in her hand. Hacky almost of how truly individual we are.
00:03:05
True. Georgia's wearing a little sundress that I got her when I went to Kauai. That's right.
00:03:12
At the Kauai drugstore. I love it. It's so comfortable. It looks like a real dress.
00:03:17
It's exciting to give a gift someone actually uses. It's a secret, not real dress that I wear out in public pretending to be an actually
00:03:25
dressed person. Yeah. When really I'm wearing fucking pajamas. Yeah, you are. You know what I mean?
00:03:29
I do. And I respect it. Thank you. Like I can't get to the pajama pant thing yet that I see other women doing that I'm like,
00:03:35
that looks okay. I could do that. I can't do that yet. You mean when someone's standing at like the red box machine out in front of the grocery
00:03:40
store and they're wearing pants that have like Christmas trees on them and you're like,
00:03:44
those are pajamas. No, not so much that. because that's okay. You're at the Redbox machine.
00:03:48
You're going directly home. It's the more like the, like I'm at a cafe working and I have like the,
00:03:54
you can't, I mean, there's a like, there's a level of comfortable in your clothing
00:03:58
that I just like that you can't wear in public to me. I don't know what you're talking about.
00:04:03
Like you have to always be a little uncomfortable in clothes. That's why I change immediately
00:04:07
when I get home. Again, just don't know what you're saying. Have never, ever, ever felt that way
00:04:14
or dress that way. I'm getting there. hence the stress join me in slob land listen you're married girl you have nothing you have
00:04:22
no skin in this fucking game i'm the one that should be uncomfortable at all times all i want
00:04:27
is to burn every single bra i've already gotten to no fucking underwire bras it just doesn't exist
00:04:32
in my life anymore i don't have a choice there right okay well like i do so like why am i still
00:04:37
fucking wearing wires yeah fuck that shit dude get rid hundred percent um and with this dress
00:04:43
which is like got the scrunchy top up top, you know, so like it doesn't you can't tell.
00:04:48
It does the work for you. Yeah. And then it has these little bows up top. So like I can't even wear a bra.
00:04:51
You know, it'll show. It's summertime. We all have to go braless. This is a nightgown that should say like something like a funny like quote on the front that I just wear on the house.
00:05:01
How about fuck you? I'm married. That would be fun. Okay. Immediately. Our new fucking T-shirt.
00:05:09
I'm not kidding you. How many people would wear that? What does it have on it? What's the like?
00:05:15
What if it was just in real puffy letters, like from the 80s? Like, you know, like it almost looks like a cheerleader drew it on a poster.
00:05:23
Yeah. Like, fuck you, I'm married. Like really excited and happy about it. Totally.
00:05:26
Like jazz handsy. Yeah. You know, we might be cutting into the bachelorette party game right now.
00:05:34
Oh, great. Let's do a fucking line of bachelor fuckingette party clothes. Penises everywhere.
00:05:39
Bachelor fuckingette. Because I was like, Bachelor doesn't make any sense. If you want to add something to the sentence that you said wrong, and you say fucking in
00:05:47
between, it just sounds like you did it on purpose. Yeah that your little conjunction freight train car that it gets you back into the conversation Are you talking about conjunction junction Yeah Why What your function No Boo Hey real quick Speaking of merch Speaking of merch Oh merch This
00:06:05
weekend's Labor Day weekend. We're having a Labor Day weekend sale where a bunch of our stuff is on
00:06:10
sale from the 31st of this month to the 3rd. Yes. Go to myfavoritemurder.com and then go to the shop
00:06:17
and I don't know what's going to be on sale, but I think it's cool shit. They're going to clear
00:06:21
some shit out and then bring some new shit. Oh, we're about to launch a motherfucking line of things that we've been asked about.
00:06:31
When are you going to dot dot dot? Yeah. For two years, I would say. I am so excited about it.
00:06:37
I think people are going to be into it. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And we both in this upcoming line have our own designs, I would say.
00:06:44
That's right. Which is very fun. We both went to like our sources and were like, draw me this thing.
00:06:49
and they drew us at this thing in our own style so mine's like cute well i guess it's similar
00:06:57
yours is to me very graphic yeah yeah like there's a real design element to it and yours is like
00:07:02
chris fairbanks did it so it's like kind of sketched out and like cool and like skateboardery
00:07:06
punk rock kind of a thing i said chris i'm from this dog town and the z boys can you design me
00:07:14
something from my taste i used to skateboard i used to fucking rip up rails i'm karen kilgara
00:07:20
chris i'm all about ollies and i talk about them constantly so could you design me something from my
00:07:27
world you know it's happening okay okay so we were um uh we thought it would be fun because
00:07:35
one of our one of the things we love the most about this community of murderinos is how many
00:07:41
subgroups have started on Facebook for all the individualized groups of murderinos because there
00:07:50
are so many of you you've decided to subgroup yourselves according to interest and by cities
00:07:56
and stuff which is like the best so there's yeah if you live in a city and you're a murderino and
00:08:01
you you should definitely just go onto Facebook and look up and see because we just had one on
00:08:07
twitter someone tweeted i believe it was the san antonio murderino group small but mighty they
00:08:13
posted something they had a meetup i god damn it this better be san antonio because i looked at it
00:08:19
i'm sure they had one too um but they raised some money uh they raised they raised like 250 bucks
00:08:24
um for it may have been in the backlog uh or joyful heart the facts are loose look my memory is not to be relied upon we're loose with facts here folks yes and you know that
00:08:38
um but people saw that on twitter and then all these people were like wait i need to know about
00:08:44
this i live near there i'm so excited there's some people near me i have a page right here i'm
00:08:48
going to point to when they're going to get a shout out this week uh my mfm podcast atlanta group
00:08:54
what's up atlanta oh yeah atlantic atlanta shows up strong sure um well i'm gonna so we're gonna
00:09:02
so steven printed out we were like print us a paper with all the names of the subgroups all
00:09:07
the subgroups and he gave us like four pages so we're gonna we picked a few that we really love
00:09:11
and we're gonna each name a few but it's also we're gonna try to name all of them just so if
00:09:15
your interest ever comes up then you'll know yeah like for example and this is all on facebook by
00:09:19
the way fyi yes it's these are facebook pages um uh the simarinos who are people who love my
00:09:26
favorite murder and also are fans of the sims and nature of first drew they created a beautiful
00:09:34
uh rendering of us three uh sims characters in the in the visage of karen steven and georgia and
00:09:41
elvis mimi and dotty which fucking i appreciate so much i look like a character actor from the 30s
00:09:48
who is 65 years old thanks for the face whoever did that clearly not a fan of my work i love my
00:09:55
skirt uh okay oh i'm going next okay uh murder emos murderinos who are emo yeah which i as a
00:10:05
19 year old in 99 2000 can wholly appreciate and it's fun to say uh-huh my favorite bad baby names
00:10:14
which is a subgroup I guess where they just share terrible baby names. As someone who has had so many boring desk jobs in my life like I appreciate these because
00:10:24
God it's so boring. Yes. And then you go well I actually do love that. I don't know why but.
00:10:30
And it's like so like even like stay sexy and watch football. It's like I kind of love it because it's like yeah this interest I'm into but I don't want
00:10:38
to talk to just fucking any idiot about I want to talk to like my people about too and
00:10:42
Then we could talk about crimes that happen in the football community. You could use some sort of metaphor during the game.
00:10:49
That guy's running up the field like so many. And then just fill in the crime there.
00:10:56
I don't feel like doing it. I don't watch football, so I can't do it. You do it.
00:10:59
The Jeeperinos. They all have Jeeps? They have Jeeps. They love Jeeps. They work on Jeeps.
00:11:05
I used to have a gold Jeep. Did you really? I had a gold Jeep Cherokee Sport. I bought it used.
00:11:11
it must have belonged to someone who had a lot of money to throw away at the time and then got all
00:11:17
that money taken away. It was like this beautiful gold two door Jeep sport. My dad took me and I
00:11:22
was like, I want that one like a fucking idiot. And it had gold, like matching gold rims. Yeah,
00:11:28
it was like it was gold on gold. It's like my baby. I love it. Wait, can I was the year like
00:11:32
93? 92? I didn't drive until 97. So that would be great if my dad had taken me to get our car
00:11:39
when I was 12 years old. Oh, that's right. Shit. No, it was like 99 when I got that car.
00:11:45
It was great. Gold rims, girl. Gold rims. First responderinos. I want to join that just for the stories.
00:11:52
A hundred percent. Like you come home from a fucking rough shift Okay go on Damn those are there good stories on there I like killing it Murderistas which is people who are into this podcast and fashion
00:12:05
Oh, I was going to say baristas. Okay, I get it. This one I get because I've been there.
00:12:10
Customer service arenas. Fucking tell me about it. Just flows off the tongue. I love that.
00:12:15
I bet there's amazing stories. Oh, just complaining all day. I used to read blogs just of wait staff complaining, and it was just the absolute best fucking thing.
00:12:24
So good. um hold on oh drinkerinos just uh i'm with you in spirit i'm with you in literally in spirits
00:12:34
uh this one i like lawyerinos stay sexy and don't get disbarred yeah please don't we need you
00:12:42
applauderinos where apparently you go on there and they'll just celebrate if you have something
00:12:48
like that you accomplish and you'd like some credit they'll applaud you for it which is
00:12:52
beautiful sweet of course we have library arenas military there's like this social worker arenas
00:12:59
teacher arenas like the people who are like our fucking bread and butter yeah like people
00:13:03
getting together like our you know what is it called the salt of the earth yeah like no but
00:13:08
like our fucking people the people that are holding it all together yes thank you civil servants
00:13:13
oh also never forget complain arenas which i know we've talked about on this podcast before but they
00:13:19
just get on there and bitch and they allow each other to bitch and that makes me laugh i love it
00:13:22
uh mental renos mental health worker murder junkies uh well that goes hand in hand with
00:13:29
the bipolar renos oh which if you suffer from bipolar disorder then you've got some friends
00:13:34
in the game i dig that it's like group therapy right there that's an understanding which is
00:13:39
really awesome like i went through this and everyone's like yeah we've been there yeah
00:13:42
fucking take a nap that's so nice that's great um i have to shout out the murderino makers
00:13:47
I follow them on Instagram. They're just the people who fucking are creative and like half the boxes that we haven't opened
00:13:52
yet are like from these people who are making shit, selling them on Etsy or just doing it
00:13:57
for fun. Such badasses. So good. Here's I'll do the last one. Stay sexy and join another subgroup.
00:14:04
People addicted to joining subgroups? I don't know. Can I do one more? I'm sure.
00:14:08
Thank you for being a friend arena. Golden girl fans. Yeah, that's right. You can do one more.
00:14:13
I didn't want to top you, but I had. No, no, no. That's fine. Okay, that's fun. yeah so find your people
00:14:18
but then also stay here with us yeah don't go don't go away don't go it's not over yet we haven't even started our
00:14:26
do we have anything else um I'm really into the sinner this season let's talk about it
00:14:32
right now you get it you haven't watched it right I fuck yeah I've watched every I think I've watched every episode
00:14:38
oh I didn't know you were watching the new season why would I not I don't know I
00:14:42
for some reason in fact did I not have it be one of my things one week it the center is the show that i was nodding but i don't mean no that means yes or
00:14:51
no yeah it was one of her things yeah it was your hooray last week i think well shit i am not paying
00:14:56
attention don't look at me like that don't look at me in quiet judgment i looked at her in quiet
00:15:02
judgment then i closed my eyes which is really scary if you're trying to freak people out of like
00:15:06
not being happy to me oh like uh it's a disappointed yeah i have to go deep inside
00:15:13
because I'm so hurt. To me, I'm a cat person, so that means that you're being, when you slow blink.
00:15:18
That I love you. Yeah, I'm like, I love you too. No, I love this season so much that I know it comes on
00:15:27
on Wednesday nights, which I never know. Tonight, we should watch after. What is the,
00:15:32
what's the girl from? You should stop recording now and watch it. Fuck it. What's the girl from who is,
00:15:38
who might, I can't spoil this, but the girl who's, no, no, no. The girlfriend of the,
00:15:43
She was from Mindhunter. That's right. Sorry, Elvis. Sorry, Stephen, do you mind looking up her name?
00:15:50
She was. I just screamed and Elvis got real upset. She was one of the. She was the girlfriend of this fucking.
00:15:56
Of the cop in Mindhunter. The young hot cop. Yes. God, thank you. Do you know how much that hurts when you can't think of it?
00:16:02
And I'm a person who can never think of it. I do know how much that hurts. And I know how much it hurts when you think Carrie Coons is in everything and she's not.
00:16:10
But she is in the center. Can I just say next time you're watching, what's his name?
00:16:15
Who's the best? Bill Pullman. Bill Pullman. And he's in a moment of like thinking, tell me that he doesn't look like he's trying to
00:16:23
see if anyone just smelled his fart. Because I swear to God, he's looking around and being like, did anyone just like in this
00:16:30
like, it's just like, what the fuck, man? But it's really like, did anyone just smell my fart?
00:16:34
Well, because he also has a guilty, he always has a guilty little turn up of his mouth.
00:16:39
Like he's smiling guiltily. That's why. That's acting. And I'm sure that's acting.
00:16:44
If you can turn one side of your mouth in a different direction, that's acting. How's this?
00:16:49
Steve is going. Am I doing it? Am I doing it? Look at me. Can you do it without moving your eyebrow?
00:16:56
Nope. It just went. I look like the Joker. Do it again. Damn it. Hannah Gross. Hannah Gross is the actress who we don't know where she is.
00:17:11
She's disappeared. she's fucking oh it's a good show it's such it's really set up well i feel like i think this is
00:17:18
what i said last week it feels like they took the things that were were what they led you to believe
00:17:24
was happening in first season and now they're giving you all of that mystery in the second
00:17:28
it's like there but it's like it's like creepier it's so creepy um i don't know i was gonna say
00:17:34
sorry because i was gonna say sorry bill pullman the reason i've always loved him so so much
00:17:42
because his turn, his star turn in the film while you were sleeping. It's one of the best romantic comedies there is.
00:17:49
It's Bill Pullman, Sandy Bullock. I haven't seen it in so long. Please rewatch. Oh, he's the brother, right?
00:17:53
Yes. And he thinks that she marrying his hot brother that in a coma It the best movie It the best idea for a movie It so charming It so Chicago It not stalkery
00:18:06
No, no. Okay. It's only not stalkery because she doesn't stalk him. He walks by her because she works at the L train.
00:18:14
Okay. It's really good. Oh, right. Okay. I also want to plug for two last two nights.
00:18:19
I didn't drink, which is a rarity for me. How was that? I couldn't sleep. Yeah. So I read one book in two nights.
00:18:27
Yes, good. And also it didn't help because it was a really fucking good book and I couldn't put it down.
00:18:32
Okay. And it's called, someone sent it to us from some fucking publishing. Like people send us like books that match our shit and like, you know, whatever.
00:18:38
But this one was like, okay. It's called The Innocent Wife by Amy Lloyd. It was like won the first book that you ever wrote for a competition or some shit.
00:18:48
It's like it was her first book. It was like Amy Lloyd. And she won that competition.
00:18:52
Yeah. And it's like, okay, it's like this chick falls in love. This chick is like obsessed with this guy on death row who killed, who got convicted for killing this little girl in his town.
00:19:04
And they start writing and she doesn't think he did it. And they get married in prison.
00:19:09
He gets exonerated. Did he do it? Did he not do it? What's her life like now? Is this crazy?
00:19:13
What's going to happen? It's like really good. His crime is, it's a little like reminiscent.
00:19:19
Like she took pieces from West Memphis Three kind of feeling like that's a hot name.
00:19:23
from it you know the hot one damon eccles damian eccles yeah it's like kind of like that's like it
00:19:30
seems like that's the archetype yes but it's like about this woman that's fascinating marrying him
00:19:35
and it's like oh jesus christ that seems like a big mistake you know what i mean i love that it's
00:19:40
her point of view yeah but no but it's also written from like they're also like this woman
00:19:44
made a documentary about it because she thinks he's innocent and trying to get him exonerated
00:19:47
like the movie and like so it's like pieces from that movie and it's fucking good i read it in
00:19:53
literally two fucking nights can i borrow it yes you can have it it's a big book say the name again
00:19:57
for the people the innocent wife by amy lloyd awesome good shit all right good job amy lloyd
00:20:02
prizes on your first trip around first fucking fiction and it's like and who was she up against
00:20:08
nobody no that year no one else had written their first book no no it's really it's like
00:20:15
really fucking good you know the famous author rold doll he thought up willie wonka and the bfg
00:20:22
but did you know he was a spy? Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story
00:20:28
in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl. All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories?
00:20:35
It must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, I was a spy.
00:20:40
Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:20:46
or wherever you get your podcasts. How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130.
00:20:50
I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, The Matchup with Aaliyah,
00:20:56
I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ,
00:21:02
Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard,
00:21:06
the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free iHeartRadio app,
00:21:11
search The Matchup with Aaliyah and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
00:21:18
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms. So I'm Leanne.
00:21:23
This is my best friend Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:21:27
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips. This is a podcast.
00:21:33
We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda
00:21:37
Odyssey. With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer?
00:21:43
I would have hit a BOGO. Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app,
00:21:47
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. uh your first is it me all right good good i'm glad i'm not mad but the only thing i am going to
00:22:00
say which i know is well first of all i'm so angry right now because every time i print up my thing
00:22:08
i must have my um printer set to something weird because i put in you have to put in the page
00:22:15
numbers so that you don't lose track of your pages as you read these things as we i'm saying
00:22:21
you i mean us one i mean me um and the last couple times i've printed things the page numbers simply
00:22:27
aren't there oh simply i'm gonna say formatting it's a formatting issue it's an insert issue
00:22:34
um listen as we told you we're fast and furious with facts and professionalism and fucking night
00:22:43
shirts yeah but not not pajama pants what's the shirt saying again i'm fucking married hey
00:22:50
Fuck you, I'm married. Fuck you, I'm married. I don't know if a ton of people have that feeling,
00:22:56
but if they do, we want to be there for them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 100%. Okay, I get it.
00:23:03
Let's just go, and then if these are out of order, we'll just have to play by. Then the story's going to get weird.
00:23:10
I just almost called Stephen Elvis. Did you hear me go, Elvis, record this podcast.
00:23:17
Stephen, you might have to edit around this. I'm used to it. You might have to like take pieces of this and put it in the right order.
00:23:23
Elvis. Okay. And again, I got this from the first time I ever heard of this crime.
00:23:31
It was an episode of Criminal. I'm Phoebe Judge and this is Criminal. You're just fucking criminaling it up.
00:23:37
Well, you know, when you go on a road trip, especially a show like Criminal, there are so many good ones that I was just keeping a post-it note of like, look this up later.
00:23:45
Yeah. Whoa. Who was that? That's Mimi. Okay. She likes to yell it out sometimes.
00:23:52
Okay, Mimi. All right. I listened to it on Criminal, but then I watched a... woman who is a professor and an author named Paula Uroboro, Uroboro, I think it is. She wrote a book
00:24:08
called American Eve, the birth of the it girl and the crime of the century. And she then when I went
00:24:14
back to re listen to that episode of criminal to get the facts, she's the expert on that episode.
00:24:21
What do you know? So it's all the same. I mean, she's the expert on this crime and,
00:24:25
and what have you. So it's the, this is the case of the original It Girl Evelyn Nesbitt
00:24:32
and the murder of Stanford White. Yes. This is fucking the craziest story and old.
00:24:39
Classic. Which I love. Okay, so I'll just do it as quickly as I can and then I'm going to get out of here.
00:24:44
I'm just kidding. You got places to be? And then you can do whatever you want. I'm going to fucking head out.
00:24:50
She's going to go watch The Sinner while I finish up while I do my murder. I have to meet Bill Pullman downstairs
00:24:55
if you don't mind. Okay. So this woman, Evelyn Nesbitt, was born, actually, Florence Evelyn Nesbitt
00:25:03
in Tarentum, Pennsylvania. Just let us know how, let us know how I thought that up.
00:25:09
You will. On Christmas Day, 1884, although people aren't sure if that was the year
00:25:15
because her mother faked her age to make her seem older for the labor laws. Oh, that's a first.
00:25:22
Yeah. So she might actually be younger than that um she was um declared the most beautiful baby ever to have been born
00:25:30
in that county doubt it uh so doubt it and also probably not that hard like um yeah i mean back
00:25:38
then yeah babies were fucking they're all splotchy and shit so if you just had one that was like kind
00:25:44
of okay in the face they'd be like unbelievable put her up on the pedestal um they literally had
00:25:51
pedestal in the middle of town yep uh okay so everything was fine her father was a lawyer her
00:25:58
mother was a housekeeper and then he has a heart attack when she's 11 years old and leaves the
00:26:03
family high and dry so it dies or just leaves the family oh he dies back then if you had a heart
00:26:09
attack you were immediately dead there was no looking back so yeah he dies um so her mother
00:26:17
her mother's name is Evelyn. So in the beginning of the story, Evelyn's name is Florence
00:26:22
and her mother's name is Evelyn. But I'm just going to switch that because she's mostly known as Evelyn
00:26:28
and it's a hard adjustment. So basically, Evelyn, she was a seamstress and she was a dressmaker,
00:26:35
but she mostly was a housekeeper or a homemaker, I should say. And so they basically had to rely
00:26:43
on the kindness of their family and friends. so they stayed with relatives for a while and they kind of tried to keep it together and eventually
00:26:51
people um got like a pool of money together that and gave it to the family a kickstarter
00:26:58
they go funded the shit out of this family at the turn of the century and that enabled them to buy
00:27:04
their own boarding house damn i don't know if that would be the move i would make um because
00:27:12
mrs nesbitt was so timid that she was uncomfortable collecting the rent from the people who stayed
00:27:17
there every month or every week like your one most important job it's pretty much it besides
00:27:23
providing rooms yeah um so she would make her daughter go because her daughter was so beautiful
00:27:28
and charming sure that she would make the 12 year old go collect the rent from people who didn't
00:27:33
want to give it to them okay the whole thing seems not super great for a child um so basically that
00:27:41
business ends up failing they moved to philadelphia in 1898 because they were from a small town
00:27:46
outside of philly um so they move into the city in 1898 and mrs nesbitt gets a job at
00:27:52
wannamaker's department store which sounds like the name of department store out of a movie
00:27:56
totally um she's a sales clerk she also gets her two children 14 year old evelyn and 12 year old
00:28:03
howard full-time jobs at this department store great so every living fuckers yeah all y'all um
00:28:10
you got to pull down some cash for the fam. Uh, Molly. So one day there's an artist that's at the store and she sees Evelyn and she
00:28:20
thinks she's the most beautiful young girl she's ever seen. And she asks Mrs. Nesbitt,
00:28:25
can she sit and pose for me, um, for a portrait? Mrs. Nesbitt's like, sure. Um, and so Evelyn does that and gets paid a dollar to sit for five hours for this
00:28:39
artist. Hard pass. But back then that was $8 million. So it turns out great. And that artist ends up recommending Evelyn as a model to her other artist friends.
00:28:52
So then Evelyn starts getting modeling work regularly. Mrs. Nesbitt doesn't like it.
00:28:57
It's a world that she doesn't think her young daughter should be involved in. Sitting for five fucking hours straight.
00:29:02
Yeah. With a bunch of like bohemian red wine drinkers who are like, let's all be free.
00:29:08
But the family obviously needs the extra money. Evelyn loves doing it she begs her mother to let her keep doing it she um and she starts making so
00:29:17
much money she gets to quit her job at Wanamaker's and she becomes the primary breadwinner of the
00:29:22
family um so somewhere when all this starts heating up Mrs. Nesbitt decides she's going to
00:29:28
move to New York she got a line on some a good job where she might be able to be a seamstress
00:29:34
for somebody or dressmaker. And so she leaves the two kids with more family in Philly and goes into
00:29:43
New York City. But she doesn't get a job there because she's not as good as she thinks she is.
00:29:48
And everyone in New York is better than you at everything. We should all just accept that right
00:29:51
now If you going to move there prepare to suck for like seven years So she ends up sending for her children She moves in June of 1900 She sends for her children in November and they all have to move into this single room
00:30:08
in the back of like a shitty apartment building on 22nd Street in Manhattan. Jesus, those places were, what are they called,
00:30:15
tenement houses? Yeah, I don't know where 22nd Street is. I'm sure we'll hear about it,
00:30:20
but it sounded shitty and turn of the century. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, but all the artist friends that Evelyn made modeling, and she had a good reputation, from Philly, had already given her name to a really popular New York City artist named James Carroll Beckwith.
00:30:41
Beckworth, sorry. And James Beckworth's patron was John Jacob Astor. Okay. And the Astor family was like the Vanderbilts and all those, the Tiffany's, all those super rich motherfuckers.
00:30:54
They called them the 400 at the turn of the century. And they were like, it's like Great Gatsby style where they had, they were oil barons, coal barons, railroad barons.
00:31:03
They had more money than God. They had everything. And so she gets hooked up in like that real kind of the basically patron artist scene.
00:31:14
And so everyone's a little bit more, I guess, better at art. Kyro? Yeah, classy.
00:31:22
There's less spitting on the floor. The fucking red wine shit is more expensive.
00:31:27
Yeah, there's actually coasters on the tables now. Sure. So Beckwith takes Evelyn under his wing, and he starts getting her a ton of work.
00:31:34
And she starts to become one of the more popular models in New York City. She's making it there.
00:31:39
Now she can make it anywhere. um then she gets photographed by two of the most well-known photographers of the day
00:31:46
otta seroni or sereni and rudolph eckemeyer photos photos photography because they can
00:31:56
this is the change where it used to be that all those print ads people would draw a picture of a
00:32:01
lady you know drinking um liquid cocaine and being like cocaine it'll solve all your teeth
00:32:07
problems and it'd be like delicious but that would just be a drawing that that they would pay an
00:32:11
artist to render from i that's so weird to think that they needed an actual model to do that every
00:32:16
time yeah because but remember those like and i'm thinking of this as like we in the 70s a lot of
00:32:21
people had like this turn of the century wallpaper in their bathrooms that was like advertisements
00:32:26
yeah so it'd be like i'm sorry advertisements oh an advertisement from new york city oh um but it
00:32:33
was like the ladies with their hair up and drinking something or wearing a corset or whatever um so
00:32:39
they were kind of really realistic looking drawings yeah but then uh photographs started being like
00:32:45
mass-produced and they could they could replicate the photographs and that's right when evelyn like
00:32:51
basically so she basically became supermodel it girl like before she was the first wow um so
00:33:00
she modeled for vanity fair she models for harper's bazaar she models for the ladies home journal
00:33:06
she models for cosmopolitan um she does ads for toothpaste hand creams she's on sheet music she's
00:33:13
like you know the drawing on the front of sheet music um she's on beer trays which are like you
00:33:19
know those um damn shit that's my dream to be on a beer tray she's on tobacco cards i'll have to
00:33:27
look that up later don't really steven will you tell us what a tobacco card is when you get a
00:33:30
chance maybe it's a little like a baseball card but it comes in your tobacco or something oh yeah
00:33:36
of a sexy lady yeah um she's on pocket mirrors and postcards and she's the picture on the top
00:33:42
of the whitman sampler box wow which is super famous candy girl is killing it yeah she can't so
00:33:49
she made twice what other models of her day made. So she really was. So when she's 16,
00:33:59
so she's still in her early teens. She does, she does all that. She's like, everybody thinks she's
00:34:06
the most beautiful woman. And you'll, you can look her up. But I keep thinking, I kept trying
00:34:11
to put my finger on who she looked like. She really doesn't look like like I was trying to
00:34:15
cast her like I like to do. And she doesn't look like anybody. But she reminded me of that kind of
00:34:20
weird beauty that Winona Ryder had as a girl, where you're like, Oh, my God, all your features
00:34:26
are just so perfect and kind of big. Yeah. And you can just tell she's going to be insanely gorgeous.
00:34:32
Yeah. She has Evelyn has the same kind of face, but almost like a little bit more patrician,
00:34:38
a little bit more refined. So she can look in one picture, she can look really, really young.
00:34:43
And then there'll be another picture where she's like almost naked and she looks really seductive and she looks like she's in her 20s.
00:34:52
So she's, the girl's got range. Steven, let's cut to Steven. Steven. So tobacco cards are live on the scene in Milwaukee.
00:35:02
Cigarette cards or trade cards basically issued by tobacco manufacturers to stiffen cigarette packaging and advertise.
00:35:09
so they had like baseball players beauties boxers um and then in 2007 there was a card sold for
00:35:17
two million three hundred and fifty thousand dollars who was on it um it featured a honus
00:35:25
wagner one of the great names in u.s baseball sure yes good old honus god he's gorgeous he's
00:35:31
got the cojones honus was so much more beautiful than evelyn she always hated him okay so it's like
00:35:37
it's like Marlboro Miles. What were those? Joe Camelbuck. Yes. So filthy. Okay. So she,
00:35:47
of course, because she's a teenager, that's a model. She wants to go into acting.
00:35:51
So she, uh, this is when she officially changes her name to Evelyn And she like sorry mom you don exist anymore Mom like this isn a problem for us at all So she gets cast as a chorus girl in the most popular play on Broadway
00:36:07
It's called The Floridora. But she's so beautiful as a chorus girl, she's upstaging the leads of this play.
00:36:13
Stop it! Hey! She's just radiant. Evelyn! She must have been vegan. She must have been drinking cocaine.
00:36:22
She must have been loving that tooth cocaine. Uh, so a man named Stanford White, he goes to see the show 40 times.
00:36:31
Jesus. And he's obsessed with Evelyn. And he's the, quite the expert on chorus girls.
00:36:37
Um, because Stanford White, um, he's the most popular and prominent architect and designer
00:36:44
in New York City at the turn of the century. He designed, um, now Phoebe, our, our hero, Phoebe Judge says that he designed the original
00:36:54
Madison Square Garden. Whoa. But then I read on Wikipedia, he designed the second version
00:37:00
of Madison Square Garden because there was like one and they built, knocked it down.
00:37:03
Are you going to believe Phoebe Judge or are you going to believe Wikifuckinpedia?
00:37:07
Wikifuckinpedia. Yeah, I don't. I love them both so much. I don't know who to choose.
00:37:11
They've both done so much for us. Yeah. But here's what I will say. At this time,
00:37:16
the Madison Square Garden that was there, that this guy built, whether it was the first,
00:37:22
whether it was the 30th. Yeah. who cares he's the one that put up the big screens in madison square garden there was a tower on this
00:37:31
madison this iteration of the madison square garden there was a tower and on top of the tower
00:37:35
it kind of looked like a bell tower out in church and the top of this tower there was an eight foot
00:37:41
statue of diana and she was um she's like um doing some archery she's got a bow and arrow
00:37:48
and there's a long um beautiful long like it looks like a piece of material that's just kind
00:37:54
of flowing out behind her but other than that she's totally naked and there were people that
00:37:57
were real fired up about that not being there and not being able to be seen wait oh they didn't want
00:38:04
it they didn't want a naked lady to be up on the top of madison square garden down everyone they
00:38:10
were so pissed about it that the um because this is around the time so and this is uh straight from
00:38:16
criminal in the civil war there was so much there was so much pornography left over from the civil
00:38:23
war that all those soldiers were like can you please send me some boobs please yeah this is
00:38:27
the worst situation yeah yeah and i need to look at some ladies parts there was so much of it that
00:38:34
it like littered the streets after this civil war sounds like las vegas right now exactly so
00:38:41
they did in 1873 they passed something called the comstock act which um prohibited obscene material
00:38:48
from being sent through the mail. So people couldn't have that anymore. But artists got around and like basically,
00:38:57
they basically just made everybody like a Greek, from Greek myth. It's not pornography, it's art.
00:39:03
It's Diana. It's Lady Diana. Yeah, exactly. So, and you know, when you see this statue,
00:39:10
it's gorgeous. I mean, and it's in some museum somewhere, so you can see it, but it really is beautiful.
00:39:16
But there was there was this after the Comstock Act, there was this kind of like push in Manhattan to like clean up the city of vice.
00:39:27
And so at one point they had that statue of Diana covered like so that she was wearing this big, this big.
00:39:36
Was it a nightshirt? Yes, it was. It was pajama bottoms with Christmas trees on them.
00:39:42
She's standing in front of her Redbox machine. They took the bow and arrow out of her hand and put a DVD in it.
00:39:50
So basically, at the time, they called it the Gilded Age. And Mark Twain, it's a quote from Mark Twain because he said, and this is along those Great Gatsby lines,
00:40:05
but Mark Twain called it the Gilded Age because he said on the surface it was shimmery and shiny and it was absolutely rotten underneath.
00:40:12
Yeah. So there's a lot of like, you know, the richness and the beauty. And you think of everybody as like Gibson girls riding their bikes and everything's really proper and high necked and whatever.
00:40:23
But there was some filthy shit going on. So back to Stanford White. He he designed Madison Square Garden in this iteration, only the one I'm talking about.
00:40:32
He also, he designed the arch in Washington Square Park, which they had put up for Washington's, the 100th centennial of his inauguration.
00:40:43
And everyone loved it so much, they left it there. I've seen it. It's him. That's our boy, Stanford White.
00:40:49
What's up, dude? He's good. He also, he designed mansions for the Vanderbilts and the Astros, the 400.
00:40:57
There's a really great Instagram account called Mansions of the Gilded Age. Yes.
00:41:02
A lot of the fucking houses that they show in the sky, whoever it is, this guy or girl, like, knows so much about them.
00:41:08
And it's, yeah, there's a lot of those. You know what's really cool? There's also a documentary called The Cruise.
00:41:14
And it's about Timothy Speedlevich, who is this amazing gray line bus tour guide.
00:41:19
And he walks. Oh, yeah. It's such an amazing documentary. If you haven't seen it, please, please find it.
00:41:24
I've seen it. It's great. It's amazing. And basically, it's like, I don't know anything about architecture.
00:41:29
I get very scared when people start talking about things like that, because immediately the voice in my head goes, you didn't go to college.
00:41:35
You don't know what you don't have any appreciation for this. And you can't. I'm the opposite where I know I can just go.
00:41:40
That's fucking beautiful. Or I think that looks stupid. That's all you really need to say.
00:41:45
It's true. But like, I always think, well, I should know why something's beautiful or how it's making that.
00:41:51
And if you watch that documentary called The Cruise it a person who loves architecture and the city so much that he can explain everything And he talks about like they used certain stone so that when like the noonday sun would
00:42:05
come down those corridor streets with, because high rises were such a new thing in New York
00:42:10
city, they would make, they would pick rocks that would make the light like gleam, gleam,
00:42:16
glisten. And like you would, people would stand there. It's just amazing. So this guy was obviously a big part of that.
00:42:23
Sure. And you can look, he, he also made, he built a lot of clubs because he was like, so they
00:42:30
said he had like at least 60 projects going at all times. Six zero. It's fucked up.
00:42:36
Pass. For real. I want an app. So, so he had his hand in like, cause he also designed, he didn't just build the mansions
00:42:44
for the millionaires and billionaires, but then he would do the interior design.
00:42:49
And he had all these like big concept things that he would do for people. It's really cool.
00:42:54
That's a whole like separate podcast. I'm sure there's someone that's done it really well.
00:42:59
But he also built all these clubs because the rich at the turn of the century, it was all about like the different clubs you belong to.
00:43:06
So it was like clubs where you could like talk about being rich and shit. That's right.
00:43:10
Smoked cigars and then hired children. there was the Metropolitan Club the Colony Club, the Harmony Club
00:43:18
the Union Club just so many places where white men could be themselves and finally relax
00:43:24
finally and just be rich in a room with other rich men and so he was the architect for all these
00:43:30
buildings. He was also known for having lots of relationships with young chorus girls
00:43:36
because he loved to party so he could party with anyone he partied with super rich people
00:43:41
obviously they adored him but also he was an artist truly at heart so he also hung out with
00:43:46
bohemians and artist types so he could kind of party with anybody he was adored across the city
00:43:51
and he is the person if you've ever heard people make the joke of uh saying would you like to come
00:43:57
up and see my etchings oh i've never heard that it's like a joke is a strong descriptor but
00:44:04
basically that is a thing like people it's a joking pickup line of like would you like to come
00:44:09
see my etchings that's actually attributed to Stanford White because he would really say that
00:44:13
to these young girls um calm down dude right so keep your etchings in your pants so essentially
00:44:20
he goes he sees Evelyn as the chorus girl and he asks another chorus girl her name was Edda
00:44:26
Goodrich he says basically get her get Evelyn and bring her to my apartment on West 24th Street
00:44:34
that was built over the original FAO Schwartz toy store. And this was one of his many apartments around the city.
00:44:43
He called them his snuggeries, where he would meet chorus girls and have fun, sexy romps all day and night.
00:44:50
So the two of them show up, and Edna pulls Evelyn through this side door, and they go up, and it's this amazing room,
00:44:58
and it's got all the exterior light is blocked out by big old red velvet curtains,
00:45:04
and there's a table set for lunch for them and they drink champagne and then after they hang out
00:45:09
for a little bit and chit chat and evelyn when she first sees him thinks he's horrifying she he's
00:45:15
super old and like super creepy he's got red hair and a humongous mustache and she's just like no
00:45:22
thanks but they have some fun and then he goes oh i have to show you this other room and they go up
00:45:28
two floors into this room that basically has a red velvet swing hanging from the high ceiling.
00:45:38
And he asks Evelyn to get on the swing. And then Edna holds a parasol up on the landing or whatever.
00:45:45
She's up near the ceiling. And Evelyn is supposed to swing on the swing high enough so she can kick the parasol and
00:45:51
kick through it. That doesn't sound safe. Well, and also, it's just so he can perv out and look up her dress.
00:45:56
Ew! because it's just him watching a younger like swing and kick and whatever but it's all like
00:46:02
underpants sure it's an underpants show undergarments then i think right um it's underpants
00:46:08
it's underpants show and i don't like it she thinks it's just an innocent game that she's
00:46:13
having good times with an old guy so then sanford white stanford white starts kissing up to mrs
00:46:19
nesbitt and basically is like i'm going to be i'm going to take care of this family here's some
00:46:24
money, we're moving you into a nicer apartment. He ships the little brother off to a really high
00:46:31
end military academy and takes care of his education. And he tells Mrs. Nesbitt she should
00:46:37
go visit her family in Philly. She should take a break from work, go visit family. And while she's
00:46:42
gone, he'll take care of Evelyn. Goodbye. Right. Mrs. Nesbitt's like, thank you so much. I've been
00:46:48
waiting for years to get away from my children again. Can't wait to once again bail on my
00:46:54
children so the next day uh stanford white tells evelyn that they're gonna have a fun day of
00:47:00
modeling for a photographer i bet they are he's got a bear skin rug you can see these pictures
00:47:05
and this is in the um youtube video that i watched of the woman paula uru buru who wrote american eve and she has these amazing pictures he has a like a polar bear skin rug it's
00:47:19
a white bear with the head and it's a really it turned it it became a really famous postcard of
00:47:25
evelyn in a kimono asleep on this rug passed out well yeah drugged it's essentially i mean she's
00:47:32
out like a light and it's just basically a picture of a girl sleeping on a bear skin rug yeah it's
00:47:36
like uh the original annie uh one of those photos from the 90s and with the babies and the fucking
00:47:44
any baby with a piece of cabbage on top of it any uh come on friends no i know exactly what you're talking about family if
00:48:00
If I get it, Annie, everyone's screaming at home. Ann Gettys. Ann Gettys! All I can think of is little orphan Annie with the big white eyes with no pupils.
00:48:10
And I'm like, it's not her. I just want to say that Stephen didn't think of that himself.
00:48:13
He had his phone. I looked it up. Yeah. I don't want to give it. He doesn't get any credit for remembering that.
00:48:18
You get no credit for Ann Gettys. Or those Weimaraners that had human hands. Oh, no.
00:48:25
Remember that? When they were like eating spaghetti? I loved those videos. So good.
00:48:28
Okay. So, uh, family's gone, right? He says, oh, I already read that. Um, she's sleeping.
00:48:37
That postcard becomes crazy popular. Postcard. So he, he then invites her back to a party.
00:48:43
He says, I'm having a party tomorrow night at my apartment at the top of Madison Square Tower.
00:48:48
So underneath that statue of Diana, there was like a little like penthouse apartment that he had built into that building.
00:48:55
That was his. So he's like, come to my party. Everyone's going to be there. So she shows up.
00:49:00
There's no one there. And he says, oh, isn't it sad that everyone turned us down?
00:49:06
So now he's... Red flag. Red flag times 20. She should be like, oh, my God, I have to really quick go tell the cab driver something.
00:49:13
Yeah, let me look at my watch that's made of... What was that stuff that... Opal?
00:49:18
No. Hold on. Shit. Wood? No. No, it was called Luminous. I can't remember. This might be too early for that shit.
00:49:31
You mean the stuff that people lick and then they got the terrible disease? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:49:35
I think it's too early for glow in the dark shit. That was World War I. You're right.
00:49:39
Shit. Don't try to pull your World War I references into my story. Okay. So he starts pumping her full of champagne.
00:49:48
Okay. And then he says, I have this room. I have to show you. You're going to think it's amazing.
00:49:53
once again this fucking guy he brings her into this room that has a mirrored floor mirrored ceiling
00:50:02
a mirrored bed no a four poster bed with mirrors all around it and evelyn says in her um autobiography
00:50:10
that basically she looked at all of that and that's the last thing she remembered and she woke
00:50:15
up naked next to him in that bed the next morning she sees her reflection in the overhead mirror and
00:50:21
she's greens ew what a creep super creep so essentially from that day forward she becomes
00:50:29
stanford white's mistress no but she is 16 years old he's 48 i think he it's not a it's not a
00:50:37
fucking love match in any way um and they they said in that episode of criminal they said at the time
00:50:44
the only way to prove rape was if there was evidence that you fought back. That was the only way.
00:50:52
And then after basically this era in time, that's when they put in statutory rape laws.
00:51:01
But before then, it was every man for himself. Jesus. Every woman for herself. Right.
00:51:07
Okay. So then he says, basically, I'm going to get you connected with even higher classes of artists.
00:51:17
And that's when he, in 1905, Evelyn poses for Charles Dana Gibson. And he is the artist who basically invented the Gibson girl.
00:51:28
And the Gibson girl is basically, if you've ever been to the ice cream store at Disneyland,
00:51:33
the wallpaper is Gibson girls. It's the really beautiful woman. And he basically drew, it was at the time, like the ideal modern woman.
00:51:43
So she was usually like a socialite of some kind. She was usually statuesque, healthy looking, riding a bike, doing things of the day, whatever was popular, playing tennis or something.
00:51:57
And she, and yeah, basically it was just kind of the representative of like, this is the ideal woman.
00:52:05
The ideal, yeah, the like, what you should strive to be. Right. So he draws Evelyn and he draws her in a portrait that he ends up calling the eternal question.
00:52:15
And that's because Freud, there's a famous quote that Freud said, the eternal question is what does a woman want?
00:52:22
And so it's this really beautiful profile picture of Evelyn and her hair is partly up, but then it's also partly down.
00:52:31
And only young women wore their hair down. And then when you were older, married or mature, you wore your hair up.
00:52:37
And so she was kind of like this half and half. She looked young. Not yet a girl, but not yet a woman.
00:52:43
And it is that kind of thing of like, what is this modern woman want? Because it's because they're changing so quickly.
00:52:49
It was on the cover of Collier's magazine. And basically that it was the picture that Coca-Cola ended up using in their app.
00:52:57
Yes, I totally can see it in my head. Yeah, you can you've seen you've seen her.
00:53:01
And so it branded her as the it girl and the face of the Gilded Age. Wow. So then she turns 17 and she starts noticing that Stanford White is paying attention to younger chorus girls.
00:53:14
So she's aged out of his bracket. He's three times older than her. And she's still like, oh, no, I'm losing my boyfriend.
00:53:21
Because by this point, she's kind of in it. She basically just is. It's whoever is there.
00:53:28
Kind of like. Caretaking. Yeah. And if they're millionaires. Yeah. She's relying on them.
00:53:34
Yeah. And she's relying on them for her career as well. So she decides, since he's seeming to lose interest, she decides that she's going to try to make him jealous.
00:53:47
So she goes to a party and she meets John Barrymore who eventually will become one of the most famous actors from this insanely famous acting family But at the time he was Jack Barrymore where he just a cartoonist and he hadn like become famous or anything But they hit it off
00:54:05
He at this party and she's like, oh, this will be good because then I'll make him jealous and I'll be good.
00:54:10
But she also liked him. He asked for her number and writes it on. She's like, it's three.
00:54:16
Because back then it's Butterfield three or five thousand. um when he writes her number down he writes it on the cuff on his cuff of his shirt cute and then
00:54:28
it's on i know i really like that um they have a month-long affair he proposes she turns him down
00:54:35
under pressure from stanford white and her mother so like he comes in and says no you shouldn't get
00:54:41
married no but he's also ignoring her yeah um then he basically when they realize that she's
00:54:48
started to do stuff like that they arranged to have her sent to an all-girls boarding school in
00:54:53
new jersey that's run by matilda de mill who's cecil b de mill's mother whoa yeah um and i'm sure
00:55:01
it goes all the way to the top and it always comes back to liberal hollywood um but at that
00:55:07
point i bet you evelyn was like it'd be nice to go to school i'm 16 i wonder or are you like
00:55:13
you want to send me to fucking school now after all I've been through? Like, can you imagine going to hang out with like other girls your age?
00:55:20
And you're like, what am I supposed to fucking talk to these girls about? Yeah, that's right.
00:55:25
Have you guys been in a mirrored room? It's really scary. Okay. So before she gets shipped away,
00:55:32
she is currently in a Broadway play called the wild rose. And in the front row, every single night is a new admirer.
00:55:41
Uh huh. and he is a mysterious man called Mr. Monroe. He starts sending Evelyn flowers, stockings.
00:55:49
He one time sends her a piano. She sends it all back. One time he sent flowers, roses,
00:55:56
with a $50 bill wrapped around the base, and the mom kept the $50 bill and then sent the flowers back.
00:56:02
Damn! But she basically, he, in the almost exact same way Stanford White did it,
00:56:07
he gets another chorus girl to get Evelyn to come to lunch with them. And basically says, I'm the one that's been sending you all this stuff.
00:56:15
And I'm this huge fan. And he kisses the hem of her garment and, like, declares this love.
00:56:21
And she's, once again, it's an old guy. He's twice as old as her this time. And she's, like, not into it.
00:56:26
And mostly because he is the eccentric millionaire Harry K. Thaw. so basically Harry K. Thaw is from a I believe it was a coal and railroad baron
00:56:42
millionaire family he was from Pittsburgh he was set to inherit a 40 million dollar fortune
00:56:52
I thought I thought a millionaire go on just if you could see the pride in Georgia's face when she thinks of these things
00:57:02
I thought. I thought. Get it? Because of Thaw. His name is Thaw. No, I got it. I mean, great job.
00:57:10
He gets kicked out of Harvard. He gets kicked out of law school. He does the kind of stuff around town.
00:57:16
So he's basically the Philadelphia millionaire that's trying to make it in New York City.
00:57:21
And everyone's like, okay, crazy. So he rides a horse up onto the steps of the Union Club.
00:57:27
He's lighting his cigars with $100 bills. Oh, he sounds like a douche. yeah he's douching it up and stanford white's like no so stanford white won't let him in any
00:57:36
club good there's like a kind of a direct link of like stanford white's on the way inside of new
00:57:42
york society and this guy's trying to get in and everyone's like i mean that crazy guy from
00:57:46
pittsburgh he's a huge nerd evelyn still goes away to boarding school oh sorry this is key
00:57:54
I'm catching up on my own page. I really love the thing of using a hundred dollar bill to light your cigar in that at
00:58:03
the turn of the century would be like using a twenty five thousand dollar bill. Now it's so much money.
00:58:09
It's I hate him. It's very wasteful, sir. He also funded a vice sweep of Manhattan.
00:58:17
And he basically was he was obsessed with virginity and obsessed with like chastity.
00:58:23
and Rudy Giuliani's fucking great-grandfather or something. We can trace him back.
00:58:29
And he was basically paid for the coalition that ended up getting that Diana statue covered.
00:58:36
It was his crazy money behind it. And meanwhile, he's sending a fucking 17-year-old pianos and shit.
00:58:41
Well. Okay. And then some. And then. Because, get ready. I'm ready. Give it to me.
00:58:48
So she just thinks he's creepy and weird, and she goes off to the all-girls school in New Jersey
00:58:52
and then she gets what is reported to be appendicitis. And when Mrs. Nesbitt finds out she can't get a hold of Stanford White,
00:59:02
he's not around to help out, so she calls Harry Thaw. And Harry Thaw immediately sends the best doctors to that school.
00:59:10
The story is that she was given the appendicitis in a classroom on a desk. But then there's rumors and innuendo that it was not appendicitis, it was an abortion.
00:59:20
from her affair with Jack Barrymore. But both Evelyn and Jack Barrymore absolutely denied that that was true.
00:59:29
Of course they did. So either way, Harry Thaw comes out as this white knight and he saved the day.
00:59:36
And Mrs. Nesbitt thinks he's great. So he convinces her that she should allow him
00:59:45
to take the family on like a healing European vacation. and she like that sounds great we barely know you let do this thing um but instead of the rest and relaxation that he promised on this trip he packs the itinerary and he absolutely just exhausts Mrs Nesbitt So she like I 30
01:00:06
I'm too old to do this stuff. Right. My lungs are filled with coal dust. So basically, there's constant fighting and problems between Evelyn and her mother on this trip.
01:00:18
And they end up, Mrs. Nesbitt ends up staying in England and Harry takes Evelyn to Paris.
01:00:25
So, but basically it was intentional on his part. When they're in Paris, he proposes to Evelyn.
01:00:30
And, of course, she's not into him. He's clearly kind of like crazy, overtly crazy.
01:00:37
But he's also like super rich. And she grew up, you know, around like hearing his name.
01:00:44
And, you know, the Thaw family was huge in Pennsylvania. So she knew that she'd also lost a lot of status with Stanford White kind of like not being that into her anymore.
01:00:56
Yeah. And she was worried about getting more work and she was worried about a lot of stuff.
01:01:00
So she was considering it. But he says he can't marry her until she tells him everything about the relationships that she had with Stanford White.
01:01:10
Uh-oh. And she's like, well, no, it's, I mean, don't worry about it. And he's like crying and harassing her through the night till she finally tells the story of what happened to her in the mirrored room.
01:01:21
And he goes fucking batshit bananas. And that's the proof he's been looking for because he's really pinpointed Stanford White as like the downfall of society.
01:01:32
Oh, because he's all virginity shit. He's all virginity and crazy and whatever. Purity, all this bullshit.
01:01:37
Yeah. So he this is like the information that he's been waiting to hear. So then upon hearing that story, he accuses Mrs. Nesbitt of being an unfit parent, which he isn't totally wrong.
01:01:49
I mean, listen, Evelyn number one. Yeah. But then it creates a bigger rift. So then she's basically separated from her family.
01:01:57
Yeah. The old controlling boyfriend style. And then he takes, this is insanity. He takes Evelyn in Europe to all the sites where virgins were martyred.
01:02:09
Great. so sounds like a fun time i mean and at the at the site where joan of arc was martyred
01:02:16
in the guest book he writes quote she would not have been a virgin if stanford white was around
01:02:21
and it's like that it still exists i guess i mean yeah i think that's a provable thing holy shit in
01:02:27
the guest book no less joan of arc comes back she's like could you not fucking do that you know
01:02:32
what motherfucker i didn't die for this you're the type i was fighting against also how about this
01:02:37
pixie cut i love the movie joan of arc starring um mila jovovich because no one that pixie cut
01:02:46
no one can wear that pixie cut but mila jovovich so good so proud of her so then at their last stop
01:02:52
it gets worse always at their last stop at a castle in austria called katzenstein castle
01:02:58
there are three staff members and he makes them go stay at one end of the castle and he
01:03:04
holds Evelyn prisoner at the other side. Cool. I'm with you so far. He ties her up, beats her with
01:03:11
a whip and sexually assaults her for two weeks. Wait, where'd this come from? I thought we were just being tourists.
01:03:17
Nope. He is, he has some issues with whipping, tying up and beating people. I'm sorry,
01:03:22
Mr. Fucking Purity. Yes, this is what I'm talking about. There's always, when you, those people that are like, we need to
01:03:28
do this and that. It's like, really? How come, sir? and that really applies to everything all the time 100 don't be passionate about anything or
01:03:38
you seem like a fucking liar what's my point is a good question to ask every once in a while yeah
01:03:43
what am i talking about right um so basically horrible she it's exposed to her that he's
01:03:51
basically an intense abusive sexual abuser and this is like what sex means to him yeah
01:03:58
But then, of course, on their trip home, he's incredibly apologetic and weepy. And please forgive me and all this stuff.
01:04:05
Now, this is the point where Mrs. Nesbitt gets remarried and is just completely estranged.
01:04:10
And Evelyn knows there'll be she has nothing to go back to. So she's she ends up on April 4th, 1905.
01:04:17
She Evelyn Nesbitt marries Harry Thaw and he picks out her wedding dress, a black traveling suit with brown trim.
01:04:24
Sounds so fun. Handsome. Goth. and his mother, he was a huge mama's boy, and his mother is insanely controlling of his life,
01:04:36
and of course she did not approve of a chorus girl. That was like, you know, to those super rich people.
01:04:43
Sorry you're a famous model. Yeah, not good enough. She actually had a calendar come out around the same time,
01:04:50
and she's basically nude, but she's got like flowers on her shoulder. It's very beautiful and tasteful,
01:04:55
But of course, at the time, it was insane. Mother Thaw tried to go out and buy up all those calendars.
01:05:01
So no one would see them. Or was she really into it? She just wanted to wallpaper her wall.
01:05:07
Because she has secrets, too. They move into Mother Thaw's mansion in Lynchhurst, Pennsylvania.
01:05:13
Great. And Evelyn is now cut off from the outside world. Mama Thaw, Harry is his mother's lapdog, essentially.
01:05:23
and Evelyn is just stuck in a mansion essentially sounds way more boring than you think like way like less cool
01:05:34
not cool at all because she has no money she doesn't get to control anything she just has to do what they want
01:05:39
it's haunted probably it's super drafty and she's just wearing that black fucking suit
01:05:45
so also it's awful because Harry Thaw is so obsessed with Stanford White that he is like manic about it He stews about it day and night He rants about him constantly They never leave the mansion for a full year And he just sitting
01:06:08
around planning Stanford White's demise. Meanwhile, Stanford White has no idea about Harry Thaw
01:06:15
other than he's that asshole that lights cigars with money. So a year later on June 25th, 1906,
01:06:25
Harry tells Evelyn that they're going to take a luxury cruise to Europe. And she's actually excited just to get out of the house and get away from that mother.
01:06:35
And she's really excited until he says, oh, but first we have to go into New York City.
01:06:40
Before we sail, we need to go see the opening night of the show, Mademoiselle Champagne by Edgar Allan Wolfe.
01:06:48
And it's playing at the rooftop theater, Madison Square Garden. So Evelyn's freaking out
01:06:55
because she knows Stanford White will be there. I don't want to run into my ex. I get that, man.
01:06:59
Exactly. It's his place. It's his theater. He designed all of it. He's at all these shows.
01:07:03
She's freaking out. It's the middle of summer and it's really hot. Harry Thaw arrives wearing a big, long black overcoat.
01:07:13
Nobody thinks it's weird because he's the weirdo eccentric millionaire. Evelyn relaxes when they get there
01:07:20
and she looks around and sees that Stanford White is not there. And so they watch the show.
01:07:25
Ten minutes before it ends, they hear a little bit of a commotion in the back and Stanford White has entered the room
01:07:30
and sits down at his table. So Evelyn tells Harry she thinks they should go and he's like, you're right, we should go.
01:07:37
They get up, they go to walk out and as they pass Stanford White, Harry Thaw pulls out a gun
01:07:42
And in front of 900 people, he shoots Stanford White twice in the head and once in the shoulder and kills him.
01:07:49
Holy shit. And at first people think he yells, you ruined my wife. But then later on, the people that were nearby said, no, no, no.
01:08:01
He said you ruined my life. So it's not about the wife. It's all about him, of course.
01:08:06
So, of course, immediately Harry Thaw is arrested. Evelyn goes, stays at a friend's apartment.
01:08:10
She is completely in a daze. she has no idea what to do. She's not going back to that crazy mansion in Pennsylvania. And
01:08:19
immediately it's a media circus. So this is the it girl from four years ago, and two millionaires
01:08:26
and a murder. And of course, there's so much dirt to come out about Stanford White,
01:08:32
because now all of a sudden, it's all the stories of his snuggries around town and all the 14 year
01:08:37
chorus girls that are like yeah i know that dude he sent me a piano too oh that was the other guy
01:08:42
but um there's already did it once what i'm sure he's done that before yeah they used to back then
01:08:48
sending pianos was like a text did you get a piano from him oh my god he sent me a piano
01:08:54
did you respond to his piano do not write back to that piano girl so there's no articles coming
01:09:01
out that say was harry thaw justified because of stanford white's terrible behavior and
01:09:07
Harry, of course, himself thinks he's going to get let off because he did the world of service by killing white.
01:09:12
A week after the murder, there's a film called Rooftop Murder by Thomas Edison that's released in a Nickelodeon theater.
01:09:19
Oh, he just fucking banged that thing out. And anybody who, like, when people constantly ask us about, like, how do you feel about this new trend in true crime and why everyone's interested in true crime right now?
01:09:29
And it's like, no, this has been going on since fucking Thomas Edison and before.
01:09:33
Yeah. That's Joan of Arc. People were into it then. I don't know. There are people standing around gossiping.
01:09:40
Yeah. Look at her. Kill all these people. My God, that hair. Okay, so one of the quotes from the book American Eve that I was telling you about is from a tenderloin cab driver who, when a reporter asked him if he was surprised by this murder, he said,
01:09:58
I was surprised it was a husband who shot him. I always thought it was going to be a father.
01:10:03
so that's how much people knew that stanford white was into like young young girls whoa
01:10:10
tenderloin cab driver yeah handsome driver isn't that what they called him then handsome cab yeah
01:10:15
i think this might have been a little bit later oh shit but i don't know it's just the 1960s
01:10:20
it's just so good oh i thought it was gonna be it's robert de niro as handsome cab driver i thought it'd be a husband too
01:10:27
but then he's like giddy up yeah giddy up frosty harry thaw this is amazing there are pictures of
01:10:36
harry thaw in jail he had he called reporters in to take pictures of him with his butler bringing
01:10:44
him food from delmonico's um he had a little brass bed put into his jail cell so there's this
01:10:52
picture of him sitting next to a brass bed with all these nice clothes folded over it and he's
01:10:56
eating what looks like it's a room service tray is any aspic yes he's having some nice ass snails
01:11:03
and aspic uh and a cling peach for dessert but it's the lawyers are like could you not do that
01:11:10
because he's like oh i think it'll stir up sympathy them seeing me trying to live my life
01:11:15
in the jail cell oh honey they're like don't do that anymore yeah they he gets his doctor to
01:11:20
convince authorities that he needs to drink one bottle of champagne a day i mean i me too hi same
01:11:25
Dr. Wilson. Okay, so the defense tells Evelyn that she has to play the grieving widow on the stand
01:11:33
and testify about what Stanford White did to her to justify that Harry murdered him
01:11:40
and save him from the electric chair. And it's rumored that she was paid somewhere between $25,000 and $100,000 to do that.
01:11:48
She gets on the stand. She talks about the red velvet swing, and it blows America's mind.
01:11:53
People are freaking out. Like there's nothing this salacious has ever been in the newspaper.
01:11:59
Um, And Stanford White, the victim, now gets drug through the mud because of all this shit.
01:12:05
And the Thaw family paid basically to have all this dirty laundry come out. So they were handing out money left, right, and center.
01:12:12
They also tell Mrs. Nesbitt that they will convict her for prostituting her daughter unless she testifies for Harry Thaw.
01:12:21
Dude. But then Evelyn's brother comes back into the scene, Howard. He's like, what's up?
01:12:27
I'm back from military school. And I'm my own person. Yeah, forget about me. Because he was there to blame Evelyn for the murder and say that Stanford White was like a father to him.
01:12:38
Blame Evelyn, the daughter or the mother? The daughter. Basically to blame her for her husband killing Stanford White.
01:12:45
For her fault. And saying, I love Stanford White like he was my father. Well, yeah, brother, because they didn't fucking drug and rape you.
01:12:51
That's right. Yeah, he was gone. He was benefiting from all that money. He benefited, purely just got the shit.
01:12:58
Look, this is typical this guy behavior. But it turns into such a circus that this becomes the first jury in America that's sequestered.
01:13:10
Whoa. This for this case. They're like, shush. Zip it, everybody. That judge was like, I'm going to make up a thing.
01:13:17
Yeah. You guys all have to stay in a hotel. What's a good word for it? It's called sequestered.
01:13:21
It's called sequestered. The Thaw family. oh oh so this trial uh harry lawyer harry's lawyers say that he should plead insanity
01:13:31
but mrs mrs thaw mama thaw says no fucking way there is no mental illness in this family yeah
01:13:39
that means there's a hundred mental illness that her son from childhood he was known as mad harry
01:13:46
oh my god he was clearly um eccentric was not an accurate word for him uh so this trial ends up
01:13:53
ending in a hung jury and after the that is over the thaw family has a movie made called the unwritten
01:14:00
law and it shows harry being found innocent and then freed while angels sing in the background
01:14:05
that's because that's what happened because that's just get that get that propaganda out there
01:14:10
a documentary at the second trial uh harry's acquitted by reason of insanity he's sent to an
01:14:15
asylum upstate um evelyn's not going to get any of the money she doesn't get shit because mother
01:14:22
Thaw is in charge and she blames Evelyn for his downfall. Harry files for divorce when he's upstate
01:14:28
in the asylum. He escapes the asylum. He goes to Canada. He does what he wants for a while,
01:14:33
just chills. He's eventually brought back. He's, um, and then released and declared sane in 1915.
01:14:40
But within a matter of years after that, like basically everybody going, uh, he's fine now.
01:14:46
That was just a one-off. Harry Thaw is arrested because a young boy is found in a daze after
01:14:51
jumping out of Harry Thaw's hotel room window where he was holding that boy against his will
01:14:58
and whipping him. Uh-oh. Yes. And so then it turns out, everyone starts to find out, that Harry Thaw used to use the
01:15:06
name Mr. Monroe when he was like people's secret admirers because he had this whole
01:15:12
scam where he would solicit young actresses to sign up for training courses in New York
01:15:18
city and then he would um get them in a room beat them with whips scald them with burning water oh my
01:15:26
god but he was a millionaire so nobody ever talked about it nobody gave a shit and they just all like
01:15:32
went away like abused and like freaked out so she was like like a masochist from day one and
01:15:41
like that's what i love it's oh that shit is always underneath those people that are like
01:15:45
Clean up this city. We can't have a statue of a naked lady. Rudy Giuliani, we're on to you.
01:15:50
Easy. Oh, sorry. Allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly, we're on to you. So after all of this, Evelyn goes into vaudeville for a little while.
01:15:59
She ends up having a son named Russell. She claimed it was Harry Thaw's son. Some people argued that.
01:16:05
She opened a speakeasy in the 20s. She was an alcoholic. She's a morphine addict through the 30s.
01:16:11
She started doing burlesque for a little while. And this entire time, Harry Thaw surveilled her and watched her until 1926.
01:16:23
Evelyn lost her job at the Moulin Rouge Cafe and tried to kill herself by drinking disinfectant.
01:16:28
Harry Thaw came to visit her. They reconciled, but were never together again. Evelyn Nesbitt ended up writing two memoirs.
01:16:34
One was called The Story of My Life in 1914, and the other was called Prodigal Days in 1934.
01:16:41
Then, this is kind of cool. she has kind of a uh a rebirth because during world war ii she taught ceramics in los angeles
01:16:49
so i think she started she moved to the west coast and kind of started over like a hippie
01:16:54
yeah and she was paid ten thousand dollars um as the technical director for a movie that they made
01:17:01
in the 50s called the girl in the red velvet swing starring joan collins yeah so there was
01:17:06
kind of this uh like a fictionalized movie i believe about her life yeah um that they that
01:17:12
she got she was paid for harry thaw died in 1947 he left evelyn ten thousand dollars from his
01:17:17
estimated one million dollar estate thanks bro thanks good of you uh evelyn died in santa monica
01:17:24
a santa monica nursing home on january 17th 1967 at the age of 82 oh i thought she was so cool as
01:17:32
an old lady. Yeah. So anyway, that's the unbelievable story of Evelyn Nesbitt, the
01:17:38
it girl of the Gilded Age. Karen, that was fucking excellent. Thank you. Great. Thank you.
01:17:46
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is it girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women
01:17:51
shaping culture right now Yes we will talk about the style and the success But we are also talking about the pressure the expectations and the real work behind it all As a woman in the industry you always underestimated So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn compromise who you are and your integrity
01:18:08
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:18:18
Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
01:18:27
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting and moving on air chats.
01:18:38
Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
01:18:48
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable? Because I want to get confident.
01:18:54
This is DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
01:19:00
It's mental health month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.
01:19:08
This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy and start listening now.
01:19:17
and over to you we're back my co-host don't forget we have steven man in the street
01:19:24
if we need him for any reason over in memphis yes you know walking the streets of memphis
01:19:29
live from memphis yeah walking the streets all right whoo okay here's another long one you and
01:19:35
i picked okay good we went long this week yeah and we're going to now start your road trip now
01:19:42
Okay, this is truly one of my favorite ones I've ever done. Yeah, like truly one of my favorite murders I've ever researched.
01:19:50
Did you know it when you started or as you went through? Okay, so I've known about this one for a while.
01:19:54
It's an old, old episode. It was just a fucking five minute thing on Unsolved Mysteries originally.
01:20:01
Season one, like original. So it's always been in the back of my mind of like this thing that happened.
01:20:07
What a weird, curious thing. And it's been a bookmark on my history. like, you know, I have the like murders to do bookmark and it's just always been one.
01:20:14
But I know it's a deep fucking dive and it gets bigger and bigger the more you dive.
01:20:19
For example, True Crime Garage did a four, four fucking episodes, like four parts.
01:20:25
Shit. Of this, like an hour long. Hi, True Crime Garage. Hi, True Crime Garage. It's funny.
01:20:30
So it's like a big one. That's crazy. So I did my best to like get as much as I could in there.
01:20:34
It also like my, as I love, it's a cold case and it goes to the fucking top. It goes to the cat.
01:20:41
You know what I mean? Yes. So this is The Boys on the Tracks. Oh, shit. Yes. You know?
01:20:47
Yep. I mean, I know, but. I don't know. Dude, you don't. I didn't know. No, but if I had known, I might not have tried to do this because it's so hard.
01:20:55
It's, here's what I know. Pretty much only what was on Unsold Mysteries. And here's the thing.
01:21:00
When they did the Unsold Mysteries, they didn't know shit either. Right. The episode ends with them going, they thought they saw a guy in camo, like walking around
01:21:08
town that night. That's it. No, this goes to the V-fucking-top. Buckle in, everybody.
01:21:13
Buckle the fuck up, motherfuckers. Okay, let's start chronologically. Let's just start with the basics that we know, and then we'll get into the conspiracy shit.
01:21:21
Okay, so on August 22nd, 1987, two teenage friends, 16-year-old Don Henry and 17-year-old
01:21:29
Kevin Ives, they're from Bryant, Arkansas, which is a little suburb right outside of
01:21:33
Little Rock. It's like a small town. They're spending the weekend hanging out together.
01:21:37
They've been friends for a little while. they're like you know normal teenage kids popular boys are about to go into their senior year of high
01:21:43
school um they're totally normal like 1980s looking kids they look like they'd be in heavy
01:21:50
metal parking lot sure you know what i mean like those hair parted up the middle yeah like kind of
01:21:54
feathered out a little bit like maybe a little duck tail just a tiny bit i think late 80s that
01:21:59
that was starting to get uh yeah you you were either going to be metal or new wave right oh
01:22:04
they were not going to be new wave at all like these were going to be kids that were going like
01:22:08
they had their muscle cars that they loved they were going to be just like normal family men someday
01:22:13
sure and we'll put a photo of them up with the post i mean they're like cute kids right like
01:22:19
cute teenage boys um so let's see it's end of the summer they're starting their senior year
01:22:25
it's a saturday they're hanging out with some friends at the local fucking you know
01:22:29
druggie parking lot as you do in a small town exactly yeah they uh the boys go back to don's
01:22:36
house around midnight for their curfew check-in. They were spending the night at Don's. Don's dad,
01:22:40
Curtis, checked in with them. And then he was and then the kids, the boys were like,
01:22:45
can we go out and go do some hunting in the woods, which is like their normal thing. They
01:22:49
grew up doing that. Don was like, great, go for it. See you later. So the boys were going to do
01:22:54
a thing of a kind of hunting called spotlighting, which as someone from the suburbs, I don't know
01:23:00
what the fuck that is. Basically, it's an illegal form of hunting where you shine the flashlight
01:23:05
into your prey's eyes to stop them and then shoot them. I guess it's illegal, but I heard that with sweet baby raccoons,
01:23:15
it's not illegal. Please don't shoot raccoons. Okay. That'd be horrible to shoot a raccoon.
01:23:22
Well, raccoons are actually really evil in some places, right? Yeah, but still, they're like little people in costumes.
01:23:29
They use their hands like people. You can't just shoot a fucking raccoon. And they look like cats.
01:23:34
like yeah and they're up to something like let them have their plan remember when rent one ran
01:23:39
in front of your car the other day when we were driving we were leaving my fucking parking garage
01:23:44
karen was driving me somewhere and one just like like did it like i'm gonna run into the whoa and
01:23:50
like karen like a cat fucking slammed on the brakes i was really impressive i am a graduate of the bob bonderant school of driving that why there you go no no that a lie but my But my friend Andy Packard I wouldn know I don know who that is I know It a reference that only like 10 people in Northern California would do
01:24:07
I bet Don and fucking Kevin would have known. They would know. For some reason, I think richer housewives to do something went to the Bob Bondurant School of Driving.
01:24:16
It was like escape driving and stuff like that. That sounds amazing. I think I'm already like I'm not just a member.
01:24:23
I'm the owner. Yeah. Judy Packard, my friend Andy's mom, who was the coolest and nicest mom, had a sticker for the Bob Bondurant school driving on the back of her 280 ZX.
01:24:33
And that's why I always thought about it. I'm on board. Okay. So they go out around 1230 in the morning to go do this thing.
01:24:42
They have the flashlight and Dawn's prize 22 rifle shotgun. I don't know. And they head out into the familiar woods that they fucking grew up like going through.
01:24:52
Yeah. So. All right. Boom. There that is. Cut to the following morning. So it's now August 23rd, 1987, at about 425 in the morning.
01:25:01
Oh, no. Uh-huh. A 75-car, 6,000-ton cargo train is on its regular night run from Texarkana, where that
01:25:11
crazy killer was, to Little Rock. So it's... The Servant Girl Annihilator? No. Remember the guy who might be the Zodiac Killer?
01:25:19
The guy who was... The city was afraid to go to sleep. Yeah. The town that was...
01:25:23
Yes. it might be the zodiac right so that's texarcana okay so they're going from texarcana to little
01:25:29
rock where ted cruises from sorry sorry billy billy how dare you well this does go to the top
01:25:36
so maybe he's involved okay the train is over a mile long it's traveling at speeds around 50 miles
01:25:40
per hour the train starts to approach bryant to like go through the little town there
01:25:45
and engineer steven schroyer notices something on the tracks ahead as do the a couple other
01:25:53
workers on the train. And oh my god, this guy gets, Stephen guy gets interviewed in the original
01:26:00
episode of, and he's just like, breaks your heart. He's just like, salt of the earth,
01:26:06
good guy. And it's completely ripped him apart. Yeah, I mean, yeah. So at first, they think what
01:26:13
they see on the tracks, laying on the tracks is an animal. But in what they notice in horror,
01:26:19
than in actuality. They see two teenage boys, or like young boys, they think, laying motionless
01:26:25
on the tracks. They're laying parallel with their heads on one rail, their body across
01:26:30
the tracks and their feet towards the other rail. So like across the tracks, like a robber
01:26:34
would do. Yeah. And they know that the boys lower bodies appear to be covered by a light
01:26:38
green tarp. And that beside them was the rifle also parallel laying on the tracks. So this
01:26:45
dude Steven Schroyer who's like a fucking veteran train dude he frantically blows the loud diesel
01:26:50
horn as he pulls the emergency brake uh even though he knows there's not enough time for the
01:26:55
train to stop he's hoping that they'll move but the train dudes feel the impact as the train hits
01:27:00
and proceeds to run over the bodies of the boys on the tracks which the horror you know it's like
01:27:08
sometimes I think about the people who like commit suicide by parking on a track and you
01:27:12
Just don't think about the people who are on the train who you are going to scar for the rest of your life.
01:27:17
That's right. Not that this. Well, no, it's not the same. But but also that idea that, you know, it's almost like if they hadn't looked, then they would have hit and then it wouldn't have been as traumatized.
01:27:30
Right. But to know it, to try to prevent it. To see it happening. Yeah. But it's horrible.
01:27:35
It doesn't matter how you slice it. It's horrible. Well, it is. You know, you're right.
01:27:38
The police are, Stephen radios the police from the train. And when the dispatcher says, have you got any injuries?
01:27:45
Stephen Schroyer says, no, we've got death, which I think is the most chilling thing I've ever heard.
01:27:50
So once the train comes to a stop, the crew, they exit to view the carnage just to see what the fuck's going on.
01:27:55
They had had experience hitting animals in their years as train dudes. None of them had ever hit a human, but they knew to expect a lot of gore.
01:28:04
But they were surprised by what they found. So they were also avid hunters as well as having hit animals before on the tracks.
01:28:12
And they all knew that fresh kill had bright red, free flowing blood. The blood from the boys was purple in color.
01:28:19
It was thick and oozing, indicating that the boys had already been dead for some time before the train had hit them.
01:28:26
By 4.40 a.m., the local and state police had arrived at the scene and they began investigating.
01:28:30
as the train dudes explained to saline county sheriff's deputies on the scene about the curious
01:28:36
lack of blood present meaning to them that the boys had already been dead and add to that the
01:28:41
observation of the train dudes and this part's fucking crazy as they had approached the bodies
01:28:46
on the tracks in the speeding train blowing the horn like fucking mad that fucking rails are
01:28:50
shaking the train coming towards them neither of the boys on the tracks flinched or moved a muscle
01:28:56
something that one would think would be human nature when a speeding train is coming towards
01:29:01
you even if you intend to get run over. So like if you're laying there to kill yourself you're
01:29:06
still going to you know roll into a ball or do something. Right and even say maybe one of the
01:29:13
theories is like oh they got super drunk or fucked up and passed out. Hold the fuck up. But I mean
01:29:18
wouldn't a speeding train wake you up even if like even if you were super drunk but yeah. 100%
01:29:23
They were like, they didn't even flinch. Right. So, but the scene was immediately treated as a suicide or traffic accident scene by the sheriff.
01:29:32
Despite the info pointing to foul play, this means that the scene wasn't properly secured.
01:29:37
Evidence wasn't properly collected. In fact, the next train that was like waiting to come, they fucking let them gum through the scene and plow through the crime scene on its way to its next destination.
01:29:49
They were like, go ahead, go through. Yeah. And even the paramedics were skeptical of the handling of the scene as an accident And they actually attached a note on their report noting that the condition of the boy body when they found them suggested that they had been dead long before they were stuck by the train so they were like fuck this shit and put a little like everyone check this shit out you know oh good
01:30:09
so let's cut back to Don and Kevin when they hadn't come home that morning Don's father
01:30:14
Curtis began to worry and notified Kevin's mother Linda Ives eventually later that morning Curtis
01:30:21
here's a rumor from a neighbor so there's this rumor already going around town that two teenage
01:30:26
boys have been shot and tied to the railroad tracks that's the rumor going around oh and it
01:30:31
wasn't long before the police show up and uh and the clothes the boys had left the night before in
01:30:36
were id as the ones that uh don and kevin had been wearing and that the boys on the tracks had
01:30:41
been wearing thus confirming the deaths of don henry and kevin ives which is so fucking awful
01:30:47
So shortly after, the medical report was released by the state medical examiner, this fucking dickhead named Dr. Fami Malek.
01:30:56
He's an Egyptian-born physician, and he rules the deaths an accident. In his report, he states that at the time of the accident, the boys were, quote, unconscious and in a deep sleep on the railroad tracks.
01:31:10
No. under psychedelic influence of THC marijuana when a train passed over them causing their accidental death.
01:31:19
No. He explained that the boys had smoked the equivalent of 20 marijuana cigarettes.
01:31:23
Impossible. Have you ever passed out from marijuana? And have you ever smoked 20 joints?
01:31:30
Well, and also in what? That was like four or five hours? Yeah, maybe four hours or so.
01:31:35
Yeah. I mean, even fucking 10 hours. Five joints. Yeah. Yeah. But still, back to my thing of even if you were stoned to the bone and couldn't move,
01:31:45
you're flinching if a speeding train is coming at you. You don't go into a coma-like state on pot, especially fucking 1980s Arkansas schwag.
01:31:55
Come on, right? Half that shit was oregano. It was fucking oregano stems and seeds and maybe a teeny tiny bit of schwag.
01:32:03
That's so frustrating. It's like anytime we talk about crimes that happened before 1995, it's like we're talking about it's the turn of the century.
01:32:13
It's nuts. It's nuts. It gets nutzer. Okay. Okay. The families of Don and Kevin are like normal fucking people.
01:32:21
So like, you've got to be fucking kidding me, dude. What the fuck? So knowing that the boys, they weren't big pot smokers.
01:32:27
They weren't bad kids. Although a dime bag was found in one of the pockets of the boys clothes.
01:32:33
But after their return to the parents, which means they didn't really check the pockets at all.
01:32:37
So like the boys maybe bought a little bit of pot and smoked some pot, but they weren't fucking drug dealers or anything.
01:32:43
Hey, listen, Bill Clinton smoked pot. He didn't inhale, but he was around it. Wait, that's foreshadowing.
01:32:50
What? Really? Yeah. Oh, shit. Dude, you gave me the chills just now. Okay. Okay.
01:32:54
Irish psychic. So, the friends who had been in the fucking parking lot with him earlier said that they had enough pot for maybe a joint or two.
01:33:03
like that's fucking dying bag um but the parents were like there's no fucking way they would have
01:33:08
fallen asleep on the tracks and not heard the train coming like everyone who's listening to
01:33:12
this right now is saying right okay plus weird things started popping up that made the families
01:33:17
lose faith in the aptitude of dr malik this dude sucks first of all uh of course the town goes nuts
01:33:24
like over this thing and wants to be looky loose goes down to the train tracks to look around for
01:33:28
shit like normal people and a family member one of the boys finds on the tracks a shoe with a foot
01:33:36
in it no from one of the boys no like two or three days after the accident and the fucking
01:33:42
autopsy had already been fucking like done and nope and he didn't mention that there's a goddamn
01:33:47
foot missing what the fuck exactly um the autopsy okay so they also told the crew they told the train
01:33:58
crew who has no stake in this whatsoever. They're just telling it as they see it.
01:34:03
The cops tell the crew that although they had said they observed a green tarp over the lower half of the boys' bodies
01:34:08
right before running them over, the tarp must have been an optical illusion because
01:34:12
it didn't exist. Oh, guys. That's not the option. You have to look for it. Or you
01:34:20
can't just hide it because it belongs to someone you know. Yeah. Or it says like the name of whoever.
01:34:26
My mind, that's the first thing. The first thing is conspiracy, conspiracy. What what's hidden in those woods?
01:34:32
Those boys. But is it a conspiracy? OK. OK. It's that thing of like if you're being paranoid, make sure no one's following that person first.
01:34:39
Kind of a thing. Yeah. You know, you know, that old thing. You know that one I love that I watch on Ancient Aliens all the time.
01:34:48
And like a bunch of other shit that I don't have four episodes to tell you, like True Crime Garage.
01:34:53
I'm going to listen to True Crime Garage do it, too. It's good. Because there's nothing better than the details and like suit the super mysteries.
01:35:00
And there's I have a bunch of references to tell you about to watch to. OK, cool.
01:35:04
To listen to read to. OK, so for five months, Kevin and Don's parents who are fucking bad asses and not letting like not letting this shit go.
01:35:12
They're normal fucking working class people. And they're like up against the fucking government.
01:35:17
Yeah. But they do not let this go. They try unsuccessfully to get the case re-investigated and nobody will listen to them.
01:35:23
so fed the fuck up they go to the goddamn fucking media because they're like you know who's gonna
01:35:27
listen to us when we yell at you over the media um very smart that's right the plan works because
01:35:33
the next day after they do this like press conference calling everyone out on their bullshit
01:35:37
the case is officially reopened finally and prosecutor richard garrett had the boys uh he's
01:35:45
assigned to the case he has the boys body's exhumed for another autopsy this leads to a creation of
01:35:50
a grand jury that was led by an attorney named none other than Dan Harmon of Rick and Morty
01:35:58
fame. No, what if that was his first career? No, it is. Then he moved to California to get away from all that.
01:36:03
His name is Dan Harmon, which is weird, but it's true. So that's got to be weird when you Google Dan Harmon and you're like, wait, what?
01:36:10
Wait. So he's a friend of the prosecutor, Richard Garrett, and had been in the mix with the family from the very beginning.
01:36:17
He was an advocate for the boys' families. He was like, what can I do for you free of charge?
01:36:22
He volunteered to them before requesting that the judge who's presiding over the grand jury appoint him special prosecutor to supervise the investigation over the deaths.
01:36:32
Because he's like, I want this to be fucking solid. I'm in on this. Let's do this.
01:36:35
So a new outside pathologist who's like Dr. Malik is kind of stupid, concludes that the boys on the record.
01:36:43
It's a quote, a direct quote, says that the boys had only smoked between one and three marijuana cigarettes after doing the tests.
01:36:49
they found that Don Henry's shirt had tears on the back of it that were consistent with a sharp object
01:36:56
like a knife it's so amazing how good these people are at their job this is a rip and this is a
01:37:02
fucking direct stab wound they can tell so they find that in his shirt and on his body
01:37:09
they match up if it had been from the train his shirt would have been pulled up but it matched
01:37:16
it was matching of a knife going in Right. Beforehand. And like the blood matched someone being alive, not someone being dead beforehand.
01:37:25
So and injuries and bruises on Kevin's face were consistent with a hit from the butt of a rifle or another blunt object.
01:37:32
So this is fucking pre-mortem. Right. So in grand jury testimony, the lead pathologist said that the boys, quote, were either incapacitated, knocked unconscious, possibly even killed, their bodies placed on the tracks and the train overran their bodies.
01:37:48
So in 1988, the grand jury reversed the ruling of accidental death and ruled the deaths to be probable homicides.
01:37:54
Okay. Great. Awesome. Movement forward. Step one. Here we go. But even then, Dr. Malik has said that he said that he didn't believe anybody, quote, laid a finger on those boys.
01:38:05
Like he refused to believe it. He wouldn't give over a bunch of like evidence. He wouldn't give over shit.
01:38:10
He was just like fighting it tooth and nail. Now, here's the thing. and this is a time where you know this is when doctors made a shit ton of money and they were
01:38:19
like the end all be all of knowledge of all knowledge sure and and part of that it's like
01:38:25
alec baldwin in that movie where he's like i'm not i'm not at playing god i am god where they
01:38:30
really that's part of it 30 rock yeah love that movie good one but but i think now the part of the
01:38:42
advancements, I think, of like, criminology, I guess, to be this dumb and broad. No, no, that's
01:38:49
not great. That sounds correct. It's just essentially people going, I don't know, but I'm
01:38:53
trying to put the story together. Yeah. Not that you have to come in and be the final word expert,
01:38:57
because that's just a setup to be wrong. Or people saying, I want a second opinion,
01:39:02
and the doctor not being like, fuck you. Right. It's just like, no, you should get a second opinion,
01:39:06
Because what we should want here is the truth and the solution, not me to win some game that that's not really what happened.
01:39:14
That's right. And Dr. Malik was like 100% on board. Let me tell you some more information.
01:39:18
Okay. Okay. This is where we get into the like, here are the facts. Let's get into the fucking deep dive.
01:39:24
This is the beginning of it. So his controversial ruling. All right. So this thing about Malik is he had this controversial ruling in the case of a patient's.
01:39:33
So there's this patient who died in a hospital and the woman who was facing legal issues was the nurse anesthesiologist.
01:39:48
No, an anesthetist. That's a hard one. It is a hard one. Okay, she was a woman named Virginia Kelly, and he helped her, in the case of a patient's death,
01:39:59
helped her avoid legal issues while she was already facing negligence and malpractice charges.
01:40:03
So he helped get her off by writing these, like, you know... Fudging it a little bit?
01:40:09
Fudging it a little bit. Does the name Virginia Kelly sound familiar, Karen? Is she an angel of death?
01:40:14
Nope. Oh. She is the mother of the man who, during the time of this case, the grand jury case,
01:40:22
uh she's the mother of the fucking governor of arkansas bill fucking clinton what wait what
01:40:31
huh bill clinton's mother was accused of malpractice she twice listen i am a fucking
01:40:40
liberal as fuck whitewater you think that i believe a thing a politician says either side oh no no yeah yeah this isn't political this is fucking
01:40:50
polititional i think also if we've learned anything in the past two years is that pretty much anyone involved in the government is crooked as shit a
01:40:59
lying liar who fucking lies we were all being lied to just endlessly and if you've only learned that in the past two years then
01:41:05
welcome to the fucking parade thank you i'm glad to finally be here Karen was just believing all of it damn I really wanted that to um not be Bill Clinton's mother I
01:41:17
know I know I know okay but also if you have more than one malpractice yeah sorry we can't afford it
01:41:25
like no the average person I mean okay so there is a I want to really quickly say that there is a
01:41:30
book and like you can't get all this you can't get all the deep dives and all of this in any of the
01:41:35
like articles and there's like videos and documentaries and shit. You have to read, um,
01:41:40
the boys on the tracks by this woman named Mara Leverett. She like gets into all of this shit, which I have to read.
01:41:47
I haven't read it yet, but like, it's like about the case and like what malpractice suits there were and what
01:41:52
happened which I read about And they bananas It all bananas Okay great We just don have time Um but so bill fucking clinton he so this dr malik reversed his fucking charges against bill clinton mom he the governor of arkansas okay
01:42:09
so maybe that the boys on the tracks was his first malik's first fuck up right like the first thing
01:42:14
that he like ruled incorrectly okay well over his career his rulings and testimonies became
01:42:19
problematic in more than 20 additional deaths no so he's the angel of death but just post-mortem
01:42:27
right exactly um there are multiple instances showing that malik testified erroneously in
01:42:33
criminal cases that his rulings were reversed by juries and that outside pathologists challenged
01:42:37
his findings and my god you need to read about it because it's bananas i'll give you two fucking
01:42:41
really great examples okay one case from 1985 a man was found uh shot dead in his yard
01:42:48
malik ruled the death of suicide but this dude had been shot five times in the chest come on
01:42:54
in another case a man was found dead in his home and malik attributed his death to an ulcer okay
01:43:01
but the dead man had been decapitated okay listen to me no no no no hold up and tell you before you
01:43:08
listen to me hold up because there's more when malik was questioned about this before you listen
01:43:13
to me malik said that the man's the man had been sitting in dead in his house for a while and that
01:43:21
the dog had chewed through his neck and chewed his head off what and that's how he got decapitated
01:43:26
even though it was a clean fucking slice and this led to the testimony led to a murder the murder
01:43:31
lead suspect going free sir what is your what is your damage seriously i was gonna say may i ask
01:43:39
the eternal 80s question what is your damage are you really gonna ask that yes what the fuck dude
01:43:45
a hundred this this immediately makes me think of that blood spatter expert in the staircase
01:43:51
we're just like how he got away with that multiple times and it's this weird thing of like wait he
01:43:57
believes himself that's like that's the scariest thing that someone who like is clearly full of
01:44:02
shit or lying or wrong and and believes themselves yes that's the scariest thing yeah it's easy to
01:44:09
get carried away with like what knowing things means about you right well the families tried to
01:44:15
like argue like argue with dr malica initially of like this how can you think like try to reason
01:44:20
with him dr malica pissed off pulled out the fucking autopsy photos of their children and
01:44:25
tried to show the families these photos sir and one of the fucking uh police officers or how to
01:44:31
like be like don't fucking do that dude like it this guy's very problematic okay five times the
01:44:38
Okay. When Governor Bill Clinton was asked to comment about Dr. Malik's bullshit, he praised Dr. Malik's work and stated that the mistakes came from being overworked and underpaid.
01:44:50
So Dr. Malik had clearly fucked up the case of Don and Kevin, which, Karen, you and I would think would lead to a slap on the wrist or something, right?
01:44:58
Sure. We would think. But no, two months after the grand jury ruling about the probable murder, Clinton sent a proposal asking to raise Malik's salary by 41.5%.
01:45:08
Right? Yeah. Yeah, that's pretty unforgivable. Exactly. So, oh, here's just a great side note that I thought you would like.
01:45:17
At a hearing about this pay raise two months later, Linda Ives, Kevin's mother, and other Malik haters formed an organization to stop this from happening.
01:45:26
It was called Victims of Malick's Incredible Testimony. And the acronym? Vomit. What's her name?
01:45:35
Linda Ives. Hell yes, Linda Ives. Vomit. Vomit. How great is that? Well, also just how disgusting.
01:45:42
This is like to watch somebody not only not help you, that it's their job and it's what their duty is.
01:45:49
There's like their sworn oath is to help you and use their knowledge to protect you and help you and whatever.
01:45:56
And this person is doing exactly the opposite, being terrible at it, and then getting a raise for it.
01:46:02
Getting crazed by, like, the higher up that you would go to to point out the problem.
01:46:07
Because he's done a favor for that higher up. Right. Well, yeah. Allegedly. Rough.
01:46:13
Allegedly. Oh, allegedly. Allegedly. Allegedly. Who knows? Okay. I know. Okay. All right.
01:46:18
Vote Ross Perot. All right. Okay. This has been fun. Let's leave Malik behind. Okay.
01:46:26
He sucks. We hate them. But let's dive into a different fucking well. What is it?
01:46:32
A well? Sinkhole? Let's go to another. Let's dive into a different well, like the girl from The Ring.
01:46:37
Yes. And come out with a long, black, wet hair and a wet nightgown. You will. And it says, I'm fucking married.
01:46:46
Fuck you, I'm married. Fuck you, I'm married. All right. Here we go. Okay. Clear ahead.
01:46:50
This is a new part. Okay. So there's a police report filed seven months after the deaths of Don and Kevin.
01:46:55
That that right reads, quote, confidential informant states that she has been told that the area the two boys died in is a drop zone for dope.
01:47:07
All right. OK, here we go. So in the years that surrounded the death of the boys, residents near the tiny town of the tiny Mina Municipal Airport in western Arkansas.
01:47:22
It's about two hours from Bryant where the boys lived. Mina, M-E-N-A. The residents had complained about low flying aircraft late at night.
01:47:31
Okay. Here we go. It turns out that Mina was a drug running hub in the 80s and early 90s and was where?
01:47:39
And this is like, this isn't conspiracy. This is, this is like, no. Yeah. Like, you know.
01:47:46
Yes. That, like solid testimony that this is a thing. that this dude named Barry Seal,
01:47:53
who was a cocaine smuggling kingpin operated out of the Mina Airport Okay Which is like this tiny airport It not even an airport It makes perfect sense though yeah because you not going to be bringing it into you know yeah he got these
01:48:05
little he's got a little cessna i don't know is that a thing sure and yeah it's like a little
01:48:09
small place you drop the drugs you fucking go back over to tiny town you pay off people who
01:48:13
see stuff and don't like it paid off pay everybody yeah okay exactly so real quick this about barry
01:48:19
seal which like a separate deep fucking dive into this dude he's amazing amazingly awful fascinating
01:48:26
okay so at the point of the boy's death he had already been assassinated by colombians
01:48:32
um so he's not involved in the murder it was his setup though yeah right so initially he was hired
01:48:39
by the dea to fly a small his small plane over the low over the over central american countries
01:48:45
taking photos of rebels. So the DEA was like, take photos, prove that this drug smuggling cartel shit's going on.
01:48:52
But then he became a double agent and began working with the Medellin cartel and smuggling drugs.
01:48:57
So he would go take the photos for the DEA, fucking load his car up with fucking drugs,
01:49:02
later days back over. The perfect setup. Perfect setup. I think he eventually became a triple agent
01:49:08
and fucking ratted on the cartel. Sure he did. This guy had no honor. None. but what a perfect hiding place
01:49:18
is like in the DEA's pocket exactly it's almost like Out of Sight what was that movie
01:49:23
Out of Sight with Jennifer Lopez and George Clooney let's talk about it what's the one with
01:49:28
Blow with Johnny Depp yes but it's similar what's the one from oh Jesus Ben Affleck and
01:49:38
what's the other one forget it edit that out it's terrible but the guessing's fun
01:49:44
is it is this fun for anyone um just me what's casey affleck's like original partner's name i
01:49:51
have to go from the very beginning partner then affleck's original partner's name matt damon
01:49:55
right okay so oh you mean that this scorsese movie where it's the drug the drug um yes the
01:50:04
dea agent leonardo dicaprio yes oh it's not matt damon yes no matt damon's in it too okay and so
01:50:10
Marky Mark Wahlberg. What is it? Not The Departed. That's The Departed. It is The Departed.
01:50:16
I'm thinking of something else. I was going to say The Uninhibited. I'm not joking.
01:50:22
Some of the best content we've created so far. Edit part of that out. No, leave it all in. It's so
01:50:28
glorious. Edit Casey Affleck out. Okay. Leave that in. Okay. Please go rent The Uninhibited in a red
01:50:36
box near you. wear your pajamas wear your pajamas the uninhibited is the porn version of the departed
01:50:45
catch me if you can that's what you were trying to think of okay yes my back hurts from laughing
01:50:58
did you think Leonardo DiCaprio was Matt Damon or you were just trying to get there
01:51:03
I wouldn't be surprised if I confused the two but I think I was trying to go Matt Damon
01:51:07
got it Okay. That was awesome. Anyways. For extra cash. Okay. But of course, the high ups in the government, like, and it was like the FBI, the CIA, all the DEA,
01:51:21
they all knew about Barry Seal being this, you know, undercover agent. And they also knew secretly that he was a double agent bringing drugs back.
01:51:31
But they looked the other way for personal gain. And they were like, well, he's doing us some favors.
01:51:35
It's like the Iran-Contra fucking times. Yes. Like, they needed him. Dirty times.
01:51:40
Dirty times. Everyone could do whatever the fuck they wanted. And actually, there's a movie starring, and I wrote this down so I won't forget, starring
01:51:45
Tom Cruise that came out like a year or two ago. Risky Business. Yes. And that's secretly about...
01:51:52
No, it's called American Made, and it's about Barry Seals. Oh, okay. Did you see that?
01:51:57
No, but I'm... He's flying in planes. There's a cute blonde wife. I didn't see that one, but there was also a movie that I feel like is similar.
01:52:05
plot that had um matthew uh mcconaughey and he was the pilot oh sorry that was about gold not drugs
01:52:14
there's one that was made in 91 that was like one of the old timers what like but this is you know
01:52:19
before one of the old timers like a barrymore john barrymore lionel barrymore and his brother john
01:52:27
okay so the drugs are brought in from south america to crazy these like hangers at these
01:52:34
like small municipal airports um and that one of them was the tiny mina municipal airport but local
01:52:41
authorities who like weren't in on the tape were still like noticing it so they put up like lights
01:52:45
and kind of like made it so that it wasn't as easy for them so instead of landing at the airport
01:52:50
um they started dropping small partials of drugs across the state and surrounding states from
01:52:55
planes like they fucking made their cessnas have fucking doors and shit okay so one of these drop
01:53:01
Copsites was supposedly in a clearing near the tracks where the boys were found.
01:53:10
So I remember the boys went out like fucking hunting and shit. Spotlighting. Do you mind if I say one theory that I have?
01:53:15
Absolutely. Just based on the information you've told me so far. They were out in those woods to do their stun hunting or whatever it's called.
01:53:24
And there was cops out in those woods trying to find people at the drop off. And they killed those boys accidentally and then tried to set it up themselves.
01:53:31
incorrect. Dang it. Well, I just want to throw it out. Incorrect. It gets worse.
01:53:35
Dude. Than that. Okay. So in the years following the murder of Don and Kevin, a few different eyewitnesses start to come forward slowly, like in the early 90s. And
01:53:43
when combined, those, their stories tell the story of what happened that night. Okay.
01:53:50
The first person that came forward was a kid named Tommy Nighouse At the time of the murders He around 12 years old but he about 19 when he comes forward finally Or some 18 I don know He says that the night of the murders he was with some friends in the woods by the tracks
01:54:07
And they spotted from the woods and like some bushes they're hiding. And they spot a group of men, a couple men on the tracks.
01:54:14
And they're hiding in the bushes. And they witness two boys, Kevin and Don, approaching the men along the tracks, carrying their rifles, just doing going along, doing their fucking thing.
01:54:22
and when Kevin and Don saw the group of men on the tracks further ahead of them,
01:54:26
the boys hesitate and then start to turn around the other way, but they're called by one of the men to come towards them.
01:54:34
And when Kevin and Don hesitated, according to Tommy, a shot is fired, and they don't know if it's from Don's gun
01:54:42
or like, you know, a warning shot, something. Whatever happens, Kevin and Don take the fuck off.
01:54:48
Yeah. Tommy, this kid, recognizes one of the men on the tracks because his mom is dating him.
01:54:56
So he's like 100% sure it's him. The man is Prosecutor Dan Harmon. What? Goes back.
01:55:05
Remember the dude who was in charge of the grand fucking jury name? Yes, I do. And saying, I should take care of this?
01:55:10
Uh-huh. Saying, put me on this case. I'm going to fucking exhume the bodies and depose these fucking people.
01:55:15
What? It's Dan fucking Harmon. What? Mm-hmm. Okay. After coming forward, Tommy passes polygraph tests.
01:55:22
He's put into protective custody. He gives video statements of what he witnessed the night of Kevin and Don's murders, meaning he's a fucking reliable witness.
01:55:30
Yeah. The boys. So the story goes on that the boys, based on witness testimony, ran into their friend named Keith Coney, who gave him a lift on his motorcycle to the local grocery store to a pay phone located there.
01:55:42
so the next part of the story that was observed uh that had a witness was observed by a man named
01:55:48
ronnie goodwin who told state police that he was driving by when he saw two boys in the parking lot
01:55:54
of the grocery store and when and then two uh two officers showed up and they're unmarked but
01:56:01
recognizable that it was a cop car because of the fucking antennas and shit uh they show up in their
01:56:07
cruiser to the boys yeah ronnie drives past pulls into another lot and witnesses the officers beating
01:56:12
the two boys, including one of the officers hitting one of the boys with the butt end
01:56:17
of a rifle and then throwing them into the back of the cruiser and heading towards a
01:56:21
dirt road that leads to the tracks. And this is probably before the grand jury testimony is like the hat happened is available.
01:56:28
So getting hit in the face with a butt of a fucking rifle isn't something that was like
01:56:32
probably well known. Right. And it's incredibly specific. And it leaves, as you said, that very specific like wound and mark.
01:56:41
exactly which i'm sure old ronnie goodwin like who knows he could have been the principal of the
01:56:46
high school he could have been the guy that hangs out in the grocery store parking lot um but all
01:56:52
of a sudden that's somebody that has a true fact yeah that like can be corroborated exactly which
01:56:57
must be bone chilling to whoever the 90s cop is that's starting to like listen to these stories
01:57:03
dan harman oh you mean the the good one not the bad one whoever right whoever's there who's ever
01:57:08
the detective going yeah i'll take i'll take your statement on this old murder well let me tell you
01:57:13
about that okay sorry they're all in it's just so crazy okay um so eventually and you'll read about
01:57:19
it in the boys on the tracks there's three witnesses that eventually come forward to
01:57:23
corroborate the grocery store story two of them two of those witnesses are murdered when they were
01:57:29
called to testify about this in the new grand jury hearing there's a new grand jury hearing
01:57:35
eventually that comes together and two of these guys are murdered what uh-huh i'll tell you about
01:57:39
it in a minute the next witness to come forward is a woman named okay this fucking woman i mean
01:57:45
love her forever her name's charlene wilson and she's basically like the night like what you would
01:57:53
have done in the 80s which is look if you looked fucking hot and you're like i'm gonna date everyone
01:57:57
and do drugs and have the most fun of my life oh yes and she's this fucking gal and she's just
01:58:03
having a blast she's doing whatever she's fucking around um charlene wilson had kind of had a come
01:58:09
to jesus moment and she gave secret testimony to the federal investigation including a videotaped
01:58:15
confession as well as a four-page confession letter signed in front of three local office
01:58:18
officials in may 93 so once the stuff was over she had this like i'm not going to do this shit
01:58:24
anymore sure and so 93 she comes forward with her story so at the time of uh the boys on the
01:58:31
tracks murders charlene was dating damn harman uh and she claimed that she had been on the tracks
01:58:38
that night with harman and a guy named keith mccaskill who's a meth dealer and known police
01:58:44
informant and a couple other people including two fucking local cops for a drug drop so you saying
01:58:51
that the cops accidentally shot them no the cops were fucking in on it the cops were there to
01:58:57
fucking be muscle for Dan Harmon and this drug drop because and they were there because
01:59:05
she told them in the summer of 1987 so like before right before this happened that summer
01:59:10
one of the drugs drops disappeared so they think that fucking local kids grabbed the drugs and
01:59:16
fucking ran. Hell yes they did it's a bag of coke. I mean yeah. It's a big duffel bag filled with
01:59:21
A million dollars of Coke. So many parties in the parking lot at the grocery store.
01:59:28
So Dan Harmon, who's like the fucking kingpin of this, is fucking pissed off. So he brings out some of his men to watch the delivery on the night that Kevin and fucking
01:59:37
Don are walking by. Oh, fuck. And they're expecting a delivery of three to four pounds of cocaine and five pounds of
01:59:43
weed. And Charlene was supposed to make the pickup that night, but she had been, quote, highballing,
01:59:49
which is a mixture of cocaine and crystal meth. Girl. And was totally, quote, strung out.
01:59:54
Yeah, you were. That's such a crazy combination. That's like when you get a... red eye and you put a shot of espresso into coffee where it's just like don't pick a lane
02:00:05
you don't and she there's an so there's this really great not great it's this great it tells
02:00:11
you a lot of documentary called um obstruction of justice the mean connection which is on youtube
02:00:17
and you and she's interviewed in it and this fucking she's like she's not in heavy metal
02:00:22
parking lot because she's fucking backstage with the band like she's the best and she probably got
02:00:27
clean she probably got sober and then her and she was just like kept telling her sponsor like
02:00:32
sorry go ahead no you you're on the right track except that's the sliding glass door
02:00:38
the sliding door theory oh okay you're right um so she's supposed to make the pickup
02:00:44
high balling they told her to wait in the car while they go to the drug like to get pick it up
02:00:51
and she did until she saw the little kid tommy remember him yes running from the gunshot thing
02:00:56
whatever it's a little cloudy okay she gets out of the car she goes over to the men who had
02:01:02
intercepted a group of boys at the drop site which is fucking tommy and don and maybe their friend
02:01:07
keith right uh motorcycle and who maybe got away so according to charlene some of them had managed
02:01:14
to get away maybe keith but kevin and don were captured and when she got there dan harman's men
02:01:20
interrogated them as they were lying on the ground face down hands tied behind their back
02:01:25
and they were kicked and beaten and finally executed. Fuck. So Charlene's like, this is the story.
02:01:33
She knows it for a fact. Yeah. Shit. There's more to it. Like, just fucking read it.
02:01:37
So the group of men led by Dan Harmon then loaded the rest of the drug drop into the car.
02:01:42
They wrapped Kevin and Don up in a tarp from Wilson's car and put them in the trunk of the car.
02:01:49
And then they moved, quote, they moved up the track a little ways and removed the boys and laid them across the tracks.
02:01:55
and according to Charlene she says at that point she freaked out and started running
02:02:00
away from the scene she's like I'm on meth and coke and you just fucking killed a bunch of
02:02:04
people like killed two teenage boys can you imagine also but just I understand that's just
02:02:10
drug use and she probably was like by that point that was just like standard fare for
02:02:14
her but if you have to go do something as stressful as is like a drug drop yeah how are you on white drugs
02:02:20
anyway and then like of course something horrible happens I mean it's the answer to a lot of things where it was the 80s yes that's right there was the 80s we
02:02:29
didn't know meth was bad for us back then totally that we thought it was it was given to us as a
02:02:33
diet pill it was a fun bump just to get you past that midnight era you know uh we've all been there
02:02:41
oh this is besides this is just me talking shit out of school but she was this chick charlene was
02:02:48
also the ex of a man who had been convicted was a convicted drug felon his name was roger clinton
02:02:56
uh-oh he was the half-brother of bill clinton oh shit just as just as an aside no we heard a lot
02:03:03
about roger clinton in the clinton era where he was he was troublemaker yeah they were like don't
02:03:08
bring him up yeah where does this go to the all the fucking way to the top okay so okay this is
02:03:15
crazy i know harman dan harman so then dan harman then there's this new grand jury that like
02:03:22
does convenes to uh fucking figure it out dan harman uses that grand jury to find out what he
02:03:28
could about who had informed on him so he's in charge of the grand jury and he's calling all
02:03:33
these people and getting all these fucking secret documents to find out about what they knew about
02:03:37
him which is not you can't see it can't be legal no uh seems unfair and to make it yeah and make
02:03:44
it appear like they were suspects um and the purpose was to discredit those witnesses so that
02:03:50
if he ever got arrested and charged with drug uh charges he could uh say that it was retaliation
02:03:57
for this grand jury trial so he called everyone he'd ever been in fucking bed with to be like no
02:04:03
no they're just retaliating against me now when he has this drug trial later sure that's in uh
02:04:08
that's in uh mara leverett's book the boys on the tracks okay so we're getting there we're almost
02:04:14
done so keith mccaskill who was the uh one of the guys on the tracks that night he was like the
02:04:19
informant and the meth dealer uh before the grand jury they called him to speak at the grand jury
02:04:25
he gets stabbed to death in his driveway before he can fucking testify uh keith coney the boy on
02:04:33
the fucking motorcycle he dies in a mysterious motorcycle crash crash just a few months uh after
02:04:39
Don and Kevin had died and had he had refused to tell authorities what he knew and saw.
02:04:46
And he would only tell his father that, quote, it was the cops who killed Kevin and Don.
02:04:52
So he is on his motorcycle. The motorcycle crashes. It looks like he's being chased.
02:04:56
He maybe had his throat slit before he crashed, but there was no autopsy. What's it called?
02:05:05
You know, requested. So we don't know. What? Yeah. But the grand jury did rule conclusively this time, not probable homicide, but definite homicide about Kevin and Dawn's murder.
02:05:17
Eventually, Dan Harmon finds out about our fucking girlfriend's testimony. And so in 1992 Dan Harmon sets her up and personally busts her for a small amount of drugs plus weapons charges He fucking set her up Yeah He arrests her personally hands her the fucking like cuffs or arrests her even though he been dating her and like having her as his drug meal
02:05:41
Wow. He prosecutes the case against her. This seems unfair. It's her first drug offense, which usually is fucking probation.
02:05:50
Right. He offers her a plea bargain of 116 years. She says, go fuck yourself. She gets sentenced to 31 years in jail.
02:05:58
i can't tell for sure but i think she's still fucking there no yeah it's been 31 years it's
02:06:05
been like 32 years since then it's been 30 years yeah so she i don't know where she is it's hard
02:06:10
to find her which i would do the same thing if i were her i would be very hard to find yes for real
02:06:15
so when anyone of authority tried to look into the case including this woman this another fucking
02:06:21
heroine named gene duffy she uh gets appointed federal narcotics investigator in town
02:06:27
she's newly appointed in the 90s she starts to she's told like don't hey her like hiring command
02:06:33
is like don't look hey just have like welcome to the office like good luck with everything here's
02:06:38
a fucking cactus or whatever by the way don't look into any drug charges against uh anyone
02:06:43
in our like circle like anyone in in um you know our jurisdiction yeah yeah just don't look into
02:06:51
just don't do that okay goodbye enjoy your fucking ficus which then anybody yeah normal would be like
02:06:58
i'm just i guess i'm gonna just look through a couple of these files real quick she's interviewed
02:07:02
in this fucking uh documentary and she's just like the loveliest 90s haired woman you've ever
02:07:07
seen sure so uh she so she's newly appointed in the 90s she starts to uncover the cover-up of the
02:07:15
boy's death dan harman fucking loses his shit and starts to go on the attack uh and she when she
02:07:23
realizes he's part of it he leads a smear campaign against this lovely fucking woman with 90s hair
02:07:30
accusing her of everything from embezzling funds to child abuse and the paper the newspapers and
02:07:35
the fucking journalists are like in on it and like anything dan harman says about her they'll
02:07:40
fucking prince yeah so uh then he tries to subpoena her to find out everything she had on him
02:07:46
including secret informants and she's like you can't do that uh she starts to fear for her
02:07:52
fucking life because she refused to turn shit over which is a which meant she would have gone
02:07:57
to prison and she got like a secret informant was like hey they're gonna kill you in prison
02:08:01
that's their fucking plan yeah so she goes into fucking hiding eventually after a long shit she
02:08:06
becomes a teacher in Texas, which is like, yeah, dude, don't, don't. And that 90s hair is like, now it's some weirdly 50s hair.
02:08:14
I bet it's the exact same. But fucking Jean Duffy, that poor woman would have like a great career as like a fucking
02:08:19
honorable person instead. I mean, that's, talk about like, there's a podcast I want to listen to.
02:08:25
Yeah. Is all the people that went in to like those kind of positions with noble intentions and
02:08:30
got caught up in shit like this. 100%. And like people quit when she because she got fired from her job because she couldn't do her job correctly because Dan Harmon was waging this war against her.
02:08:39
So like five of her informants, like, you know, not informants, but they were like cops who were like on her side.
02:08:45
Yeah. They fucking quit. So those dudes like would have had these incredible jobs and ladies.
02:08:50
All right. So almost I swear in 1996, Dan Harmon finally gets fucking caught for his shit.
02:08:56
He's convicted of racketeering, conspiracy, extortion and drug possession with intent to distribute.
02:09:00
He gets 10 years. He's released in nine years. And then he got arrested in drug charges again in 2010.
02:09:05
I can't tell. I think he's still in prison. But like everything turns out, he was completely fucking drug kingpin this whole time.
02:09:15
Later in the 2000s and on, one of the police officers who was alleged to have been on the
02:09:22
tracks that night and beaten and taken to the boys to the tracks, this guy named Jay
02:09:25
Campbell, who had like gotten higher and higher and up. he and his wife were arrested on many drug charges and sentenced to decades-long terms in jail.
02:09:34
So, like, they're all fucking in on this. Yeah. The families of Kevin and Don are still not receiving cooperation from the Sailing County Sheriff,
02:09:41
who happens to be a guy named Rodney Wright. Who is he? He's fucking Dan Harmon's nephew.
02:09:47
No. As recently as 2016, Linda Ives, who has not fucking given up the fight, has filed suit against multiple government agencies for refusing to answer her Freedom of Information Act
02:09:58
requests and for withholding info in regards to the death. So she's still fucking on this shit.
02:10:04
The government's responded to her suit by asking the court to dismiss the suit because it's an
02:10:09
ongoing investigation. And the case is still open to this day. She says it's not a political issue
02:10:16
with her because they were never a political family. But until the Arkansas political machine
02:10:22
reached into their lives and destroyed the tranquility that they had as a family.
02:10:28
yes and that's the fucking boys on the tracks the fucking tip of the iceberg fuck i mean dude
02:10:37
but because i have to say when i saw that on i'm sure it was unsolved mysteries um where
02:10:44
all that stuff where it's just like the weirdest it's clearly a setup of trying to make it seem
02:10:51
like boys committed suicide right when they were dead and it only worked because everyone was in
02:10:56
the pocket of everyone else. Yeah. And like when you look at that as a person who reads a lot of true crime or whatever,
02:11:02
you like well one of the options is there a really bizarre serial killer that likes to kill people and then confuse people which is like you never heard of that Like it doesn line up with any of that
02:11:14
It completely lines up with cover-up, with, you know... And I know, like, some people are like, I don't like conspiracy theories, but it's like, this is the only fucking thing.
02:11:21
This, like, makes more sense than the boys... anything. This is the thing that, oh, like, every little puzzle piece goes into it.
02:11:29
It's not a fucking conspiracy theory. There's proof that all of these people, you know, they all went to prison later.
02:11:35
They all were in each other's pockets. Malik got fucking like fired and promoted to something else when Bill Clinton became president.
02:11:41
Like everyone and he did fucking get Bill Clinton's mother out of, you know, all this legal bullshit.
02:11:49
And like Dan Harmon did fucking like is proven that he was like the judge was in on the take.
02:11:55
It's not a conspiracy. Well, I mean, it's actually a true conspiracy theory. It's like there are, and that's the thing we're starting to learn these days more and more,
02:12:06
is a lot of conspiracy theorists were right. And just because they were freaked out by it or like, you know, weirdos like us.
02:12:14
Like the wormwood, like on Netflix, it's like, yeah, they, it's actually a known fact that the CIA gave LSD to people who didn't know about it to see how they would react.
02:12:23
That's not me being like a fucking weirdo conspiracist. Right. That's the truth.
02:12:28
It's simply the truth. Yeah. Well, and a lot of people who are like, I don't like conspiracy theories are the kind of people who are like, I don't know.
02:12:34
I also don't like the truth. Right. I just want something that's not going to rock the boat or like freak me out.
02:12:39
But they confuse like aliens with the government doing something nefarious. Also, small town.
02:12:45
Like we're talking about small town Arkansas. Yeah. So this is, you know, families, relatives, everybody who knows people.
02:12:54
It's all that's all those relationships are. That's how a lot of those towns operate.
02:12:58
It's like, I'm the sheriff now. You're going to be the sheriff when I die. We're going to keep all the secrets exactly where we have them and nobody mess around.
02:13:07
And like, I mean, honestly, what a great way to conceal a murder. Yes. You know, the train's coming at 4 fucking 30 and still in the dark.
02:13:17
How do we hide this? God, it's rotten. You know, Dan Harmon was high as he was probably on.
02:13:22
What is it called? The speedball, too. Oh, yeah. they take it a little too far and they kill the boys.
02:13:28
What's a great way to fucking hide this. It's not, it's not like it would have worked if the fucking train conductor had never
02:13:35
seen the boys. That's right. That's what they thought was going to happen. Or if the medical examiner had been legit and was like,
02:13:41
you know, no, this blood is old. There are these wounds. Like if the parents had been people who believed in the government or
02:13:49
hadn't, you know, raised a fuss and how many did get away with it? You know what I mean?
02:13:54
Like how many out there that they're like, Linda Ivers wasn't there to fucking scream about it.
02:13:58
That's right. And call vomit on everything. That's right. Yeah, no, that's amazing.
02:14:02
And it's horrifying, obviously. Yeah. Crazy. I think that's one of my favorite ones.
02:14:07
That's amazing. Well, also because it's very satisfying. The second you start talking about like the low, low plane drops of drugs, you're like,
02:14:14
all right, now we're in a whole different thing. This is not small town America.
02:14:17
I want to give, there's an unexplained-mysteries.com website and there's a dude name.
02:14:23
How would you say? or I'm sorry a person it might be a lady I don't let's say it's a French word Lumiac Lemieux
02:14:29
Lemieux who like broke it the fuck down in a way that was like he did or he or she did a thing that
02:14:37
was like based on all these people's testimonies here's what happened and like told the story in a
02:14:41
perfect way and I love that it was great because I can't even tell you how much like how many
02:14:46
fucking sites I've been doing for this it's really fun like it's a fun rabbit hole yeah that's great
02:14:50
yeah really fascinating yeah and of course the boys in the tracks by mara leverett let's all read
02:14:57
it it's our new book yeah that sounds good oh my god fired up now also then it makes me think of
02:15:05
like i wonder if all those you know there's that there's an area i think it well i'm sure every
02:15:10
state has one but like there's that triangle in massachusetts where it's like crazy shit happens
02:15:15
and don't go there it's haunted and all that stuff and it's like that could be a drug drop like
02:15:19
I wonder how many things like that that are like urban areas of like the Blair Witch lives here and
02:15:25
then all the kids are like go there but then don't go any closer because people get killed or whatever
02:15:29
and it's just like don't go here because yeah we're just shipping cocaine into this little cabin
02:15:33
it makes me think that what's that place uh where all the Columbia no the cocaine comes from
02:15:41
no I know that one really well uh what's the one where like they go and molest children
02:15:47
the federal credit union. Oh, in Lincoln, Nebraska? Yeah, what's that place called?
02:15:54
The federal credit union? It's the name of the credit union, right? No, no, no. But yeah, it's the...
02:15:59
Bohemian Grove. Bohemian Grove! Thank you! Bohemian Grove's in California. Is that where they go?
02:16:05
There's a great last podcast on the left about that whole story. What's the federal credit union
02:16:09
that they talk about? No, that's the one that's Johnny Gosch. Yes. It's Johnny Gosch,
02:16:14
but then the Bohemian Grove is basically insanely rich, leaders and it's right by where i grew up jesus yeah i know people that have like worked there
02:16:23
as cater waiters and stuff um but they have they do all this weird shit and it's very secretive
02:16:28
can they have a cater waiterinos and tell us what really fucking happens there on facebook
02:16:32
i will join that subgroup immediately bohemian roverinos i mean there people that say the only reason there people talk about it so much is just because it all these rich politicians and millionaires and all this stuff And then there the other people who are like oh no they have full on pagan rituals and they kill children or whatever it is
02:16:52
And who knows what the truth of it is. I love it. It's just also fascinating. It goes all the way to the top and we're never going to Arkansas.
02:17:00
Sorry, Arkansas. But I now I'm not allowed. I'm like not allowed there anymore because of the story.
02:17:05
Because of how many people you called a fucking idiot in the story. I just implicated everyone in this.
02:17:11
And also Dan Harmon's going to get a text at 2 a.m. of like, I heard that the girls on My Favorite Murder are talking shit on you, Dan.
02:17:18
Like Dan Harmon, Harmon Town? Oh, no. Leave Dan Harmon Town alone. I went to his wedding.
02:17:23
He's a lovely man. We love Dan Harmon Town. That's it. What's your... Do you want to blend right into your hooray?
02:17:30
I just have a quick one because this was so fucking long. And speaking, and it actually blends into the Mansions of the Gilded Age Instagram.
02:17:40
I actually have been tagged me in a thing called, an Instagram called Cheap Old Houses
02:17:44
that I just am obsessed with on Instagram. And it's just someone who posts houses that are under a hundred grand, but they're like
02:17:53
seven grand to like a hundred grand that like old Victorians that you have to go live in
02:17:59
like wherever the fuck bum fuck maybe fucking arkansas yeah but they're at least and they show
02:18:04
you through the house so it's and they're empty but it looks a little bit like uh abandoned porn
02:18:09
which i love but also a little bit like i would change the wallpaper in here it's just like it's
02:18:13
a deep dive check it out crazy cheap old house you could also along the same lines watch the movie
02:18:18
the money pit starring tom hanks exactly that and goldie hahn and no no it was uh it's diane
02:18:25
from Cheers. You're right. My friend Jennifer Geary and I watched that movie a hundred times.
02:18:30
So good. Loved it so much. Loved it. Well, mine this week is I just got super crazy. My friend
02:18:37
Dave Messmer. God bless you, Dave. He's been my friend forever. We were college roommates.
02:18:42
He told me to watch Schitt's Creek like a year ago. And I think it's because of the title. I was
02:18:48
like, I'm not into that broad stuff or whatever. I started watching it yesterday. I watched it for
02:18:53
two full days straight. I love it. It is my fucking favorite. There's three seasons of it
02:18:58
on Netflix. It's so brilliant. And it is, um, it was created by Eugene Levy and his son, um,
02:19:06
Daniel. His real name is Daniel Levy, but on the show, his character's name is David
02:19:11
and his sister's constantly going, ew, David. And it's my favorite. Um, and it's Eugene Levy
02:19:17
and what's her face and Catherine O'Hara plays the mother. I would watch anything they're in.
02:19:21
It is so good. It is so well written. And it starts out like, you know, the rich people that fall and then they have to live like poor people, which we've seen it before. So I in my judgy, judgy TV writer way, I'm like, I don't have time for it. It's so hard joke funny. The characters are so good. Crazy. Catherine O'Hara's accents alone, I could watch it. Like I'm already planning on rewatching all of it.
02:19:48
Well, I told you, I was looking through this because you told me that earlier, and there's a Schitt's Creek Arena.
02:19:53
Wait, where is it? Oh, shit. Schitterinos. S-T-H-I-T-T-E-R-I-N-O-S. There's a Schitterinos fucking Facebook group.
02:20:02
I love it. So you're going to join that. There's Mimi. I'm in it already. You're going to tell us it's over.
02:20:06
You guys, thanks for listening to this long episode. That was... How long, Stephen?
02:20:11
This isn't even the longest episode. I feel like, because it was so much fun, it doesn't feel that long.
02:20:17
Yeah, that's right. this was great um it was only three hours and 10 minutes yeah thanks you guys for listening thank
02:20:22
you so much for listening love you for being here with us and we have the best time yep what a joy
02:20:27
what a joyous occasion stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye oh here he is the star of stage
02:20:35
is great elvis want cookie good boy Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
02:20:47
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories
02:20:54
I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
02:21:00
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
02:21:05
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts
02:21:11
How much you weigh Wanda? Right now I'm about 130 I'm at 183 We should race No, I want to leave here
02:21:18
with my original hips On the podcast The Matchup with Aaliyah I pair prominent female athletes
02:21:22
with unexpected guests On a recent episode I sat down with undisputed boxing champ
02:21:26
Claressa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie Undercard
02:21:31
The Art of Trash Talk and what it really means to be ladylike Open your free iHeartRadio app
02:21:35
Search The Matchup with Aaliyah and listen now Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
02:21:43
10-10 shots, 5, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.
02:21:49
A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
02:21:57
I screamed, get down, get down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten.
02:22:04
And a mystery. That may or may not have been political. that may have been about sex.
02:22:08
Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
02:22:13
or wherever you get your podcasts.