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00:01:36
Bro, from the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill? Because this is our life.
00:01:41
Backstage, on the road, it's loud, messy, real. And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.
00:01:49
Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos. Not just test tracks, real life scenes.
00:01:54
Late nights, road trips, all of it. That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D. Power.
00:02:03
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00:02:14
Awards based on 2025 model year, newer models may be shown. Hello. Hello. Welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:02:36
This is a podcast. This is a podcast about true crime. And there's some comedy elements.
00:02:41
You're going to freak out. It's going to, you're going to, you won't believe it.
00:02:45
You won't believe your eyes. You won't believe your ear holes. That's Georgia Hardstark over there.
00:02:51
That's Karen Kilgariff over there. Me. What do you have for, what do you have for me?
00:02:56
Karen Kilgariff. I'm trying to figure out a way to make this beginning more stilted, and I think we're doing it.
00:03:02
That was our goal this week, guys. We said, usually the openings are kind of stilted.
00:03:08
And awkward. But let's turn that up to 11. That's everyone's favorite part. That's why nobody skips anymore.
00:03:14
That's right. Because they're like, this beginning is making me sweat. They're getting good at making me uncomfortable.
00:03:20
I think I need to start by saying, by not listening to whatever you just said, and by realizing I need to make a correction.
00:03:27
Okay. But the correction is from the last minisode, I believe. Yes. Because we were talking about what book you would take.
00:03:36
Somebody asked the icebreaker question. Yes. What book would you read? No, no, that wasn't a minisode.
00:03:41
That was the Q&A episode. The Q&A episode. I filed it under minisode in my mind.
00:03:46
So it was the last, but it was on the day of the minisode, right? No. So it was the last episode.
00:03:52
It was a special. It was a full-on episode? Yeah. Oh my God, I have to listen to this podcast.
00:03:56
I bet it's good. You'd be surprised. You'd be surprised what we're getting away with.
00:04:05
So the question asked was, what book would you read if you could only read, or what book would you pick
00:04:12
if you could only read the same book over and over for the rest of your life? And you said Da Vinci Code.
00:04:15
I said the Da Vinci Code. Now, it's been haunting me since I said that. So this is a correct, you're correcting yourself.
00:04:21
Well, I don't know if even I can correct it because it already happened. I did it.
00:04:28
I said it. You know it. I have an idea. Okay, really quickly, let's record you answering that question again,
00:04:34
and we'll have Stephen edit that part that you say into the last episode. Okay, so there's already people that have heard it.
00:04:43
There's already people that have talked to me about it. It's too late. It's never happened.
00:04:48
It's too late, and here's what I want to say. Okay. As I was thinking about it, what I thought was it's the perfect example of what my mind does when I go into an over like status overwhelm.
00:05:01
So that moment and moments like that, like when people ask you these icebreaker questions at parties and like if they're book related or band related or fashion, something that could make you feel bad.
00:05:12
And it's not fair because if they're answering it, then they already have their perfect, they're asking it.
00:05:17
They already have their perfect smart person answer. That's exactly right. So they're like, it's like, you know, rubbing their hands together going, what book would
00:05:24
Let me hear how stupid you sound right now. you read? So then my brain scans the mental bookshelf in my mind.
00:05:32
All of the spines are blank. There's nothing to be read. It's just blank journals.
00:05:38
Yeah. And you can't pick one of those. It's all my old journals with like half written Chinese orders, Chinese food orders written
00:05:45
on them and poems. So I just went into a full panic and acted as if a bad detailed book is better than a beautifully written book which is fucking crazy But it was me trying to like simplify and fix a problem that didn even exist Because no one going to be like no you wrong
00:06:06
It's like, yeah, no, I'm wrong. But this is what I'm going with. I'm wrong and I'm choosing the wrongness.
00:06:11
Whereas if I could re-answer that now, and I'm going to, I would pick, I think my favorite book I've ever read to date is a book by a writer named Colin McCann,
00:06:23
and it's called Let the Great World Spin. And it's a bunch of different stories that lead up to the day
00:06:29
the guy walked across the tightrope between the two World Trade Center towers. Wow.
00:06:37
I love books that are different stories, and then you find out at the end how they intertwangle.
00:06:42
Yeah. I wasn't going to just keep going. We didn't have to, like, we could have ignored that.
00:06:47
But the word intertwangle is the best. I think I was, like, kind of thinking of a tightrope.
00:06:53
And how it, you know what I mean? And then it intertwines. It intertwines together.
00:06:59
That's my, the proclensity and intertwine are now my new words that I've made up.
00:07:03
And then I am fucking sticking with. Your trademark is underneath him. So anyway,
00:07:07
any, anyone who has right now, if in your mind, piece of trivia, you have my favorite book is the Da Vinci code.
00:07:14
Sorry, Dan Brown. We're not doing that today. The please replace it with column McCann's let the great world spin.
00:07:19
And I think really what I need is on icebreaker questions, no matter where they're asked, I need a four day hold so I can really give answers.
00:07:29
From now on, we'll write down essay questions, essay answers. I'm sticking with Middlesex by Jeffrey Eugenides, but that's really because I obsessed with that book.
00:07:40
Talking is not going great for me so far. It seems like your words are in her twangle today.
00:07:45
My brain just says twangly today. It's so twangled. I want to read a quick thing.
00:07:51
Do it. I've got an email from someone named Eric with a K. And it says, Cheese Days episode 139 response.
00:07:59
Georgia, Karen, and crew. I just listened to episode 139 with Georgia's story about Athens, Wisconsin.
00:08:05
Remember how we were talking about the, oh, you want a cheese parade? Yes. This was the creepy family that there was, the whole family was murdered.
00:08:13
The Coons family. Yes, that was intense. And they live in a, one son worked at a cheese factory.
00:08:17
We talked extensively about what a small town parade for Abraham Lincoln would be like.
00:08:23
Right. I think that's what it was. Yeah, and then we'd throw cheese curds out the...
00:08:26
Okay, I live in Monroe, Wisconsin, about three hours south of Athens. Your description of your theoretical 4th of July celebration had me laughing because this was an almost perfect description of my town's biannual Cheese Days Festival.
00:08:38
Yes! This festival takes over the entire town and is such a big deal that they can only have it every other year.
00:08:45
What? Fucking party. party. Oh, shit. Over 100,000 people have visited my small town
00:08:50
of just under 11,000 residents. What? For three days of nothing but cheese, beer, live music, and carnival
00:08:58
food. A major draw to the Cheese Days is the fresh, deep-fried cheese curds. Lines literally go
00:09:04
around the entire block with people waiting to buy their curds. The Cheese Days parade
00:09:08
is kicked off with Guernsey cattle being led through town. Yes! That's my kind of cattle. That's your cow. Yes, they're
00:09:14
the prettiest ones. Followed by the cheese days royalty the mascot is a piece of cheese named wedgie a wedge of cheese and his
00:09:24
underwear up his ass we just missed it uh there'll be another one in 2020 that we should know that
00:09:30
your make-believe scenario of small town wisconsin life wasn't that far off the mark yes love your
00:09:34
show stay sexy and eat all the cheese eric can someone please put it in our group i-cow the
00:09:40
Murderino iCal, the 2020 Cheese Day Parade in what town? Below Athens? It's Monroe, Wisconsin.
00:09:49
Fucking Monroe's Cheese Day Parade. We'll be there. Get us, oops, reserve us a room at the Bed and Breakfast.
00:09:54
Breakfast, please, Stephen. Tell them all we eat is cheese. Yes. Please get us a Bed and Breakfast that's right on the parade route.
00:10:01
Yes! So we can stay in bed, but open the window if people throw fried cheese curd into our mouth. At us.
00:10:07
This reminds me a lot of Petaluma's Butter and Egg Day Parade, which has been going on since the 80s.
00:10:13
That's all I want to do. It's very cute. It's just like my dad, the great joke that my dad loves to make
00:10:19
is that it's not really a legit parade because he's like, Jesus, I could pick up one of those little flags
00:10:24
and I'm walking it myself. Like he's, he doesn't like. Yeah, that's the point. Yeah, I know.
00:10:27
It's like little kids walk by and they're all from one karate class. Like it is the cutest, best parade.
00:10:33
Is there a pet costume contest where everyone dresses their dogs as eggs and butter?
00:10:39
No, because you know why? They save that. Petaluma is the home of the ugly dog contest.
00:10:44
You know, every year. Shut your face. Okay. Have I never told you this? Starstruck right now.
00:10:49
Right? Okay. The ugly dog contest has been going on in my hometown of Petaluma, California since the
00:10:55
70s. Holy shit. And here's how I know that that is relatively accurate is because my sister was on the TV
00:11:02
show. And for people who grew up in the 80s is a big fucking deal. There was a TV show called Real People, and it was hosted by Fred Willard, some blonde
00:11:09
lady. some blonde guy and then another guy. And I can't remember. Holy shit. These are famous people.
00:11:16
It was like, there was a whole crew of people. Skip Stevenson was one of the people.
00:11:20
Skip. And, and it was basically just human interest stories from around the nation.
00:11:24
And it was the best show. We loved it so much. It was like one of those Sunday night kind of 7 p.m. shows.
00:11:31
It's like easy listening of TV shows. It took completely. And it would just be like,
00:11:34
here's this weird guy from Ohio. We collect lizards. Yeah. The guy that ate only McDonald's his whole life was on there.
00:11:42
Like, everyone, you know, I'm sure the fat twins from the Guinness Book of World Record that rode their motorcycles probably featured.
00:11:49
But when they came to Petaluma to film the Ugly Dog Contest. Chinese Crested everywhere It was So we heard the TV show Real People will be there so my sister was in had already signed up my dog Muggsy Oh my
00:12:05
Who was just a shitty little gray, you know, like charcoal gray mutt that I think she had an underbite.
00:12:12
She was kind of skinny and funny. She wasn't even ugly enough. No, no, no. She was just plain.
00:12:17
Yeah. But it's kind of fucked up. And none of the hosts came. It was just the ENG crew.
00:12:23
There was just a professional TV camera. They were just going to do voiceover for it.
00:12:28
Exactly right. That's what they did. It's like they just talked the tape in and out.
00:12:31
But when we watched it on the real TV, my sister's rainbow flip flop was on, made it to the final cut.
00:12:40
And we screamed. My dad got mad at how loud we screamed because we went berserk.
00:12:44
And it was just my sister's. No, it's your fucking foot on TV as a kid. It was my sister's foot and Muggsy.
00:12:50
It was one of those shots where the guy put the camera down on the ground. and then the dog sniffed up to the lens.
00:12:54
Oh, Muggsy, good girl. So Muggsy actually made it to the final cut. Oh, we have to find that tape.
00:13:00
What if I saw my old dad? I forgot. It would be so awesome to see Muggsy again. I promise you someone will find that.
00:13:08
I mean, it's such an old show, though. I mean, this was like probably 78, 79. Wow.
00:13:13
It was like 1,000 years ago. Someone's going to find it. Real people, Fred Willard.
00:13:18
Anyway, sorry. Oh, my God. I just walked you down Petaluma Lane. It was beautiful.
00:13:24
Thanks so much. Where were we? Do we have business? We're just kind of getting knocked out of the fucking park lately.
00:13:31
Yeah. That's about to hit. So keep an eye out at MyFavoriteMurder.com and then go to shop.
00:13:37
Yes. You know what? I'm going to say this really quick. Georgia sent me a website that people have been sharing.
00:13:45
um do not start a store um and say that it's quote-unquote inspired by this podcast
00:13:54
and it listen we completely support etsy artists we completely support independent artists people
00:14:02
that are making little individual things somebody has started a full-on internet store that has
00:14:09
like what 50 products it's completely ripped off it's not entirely making it's stuff it's the kind
00:14:16
of thing where it's on print on demand yeah so you can just make up whatever you want and book
00:14:20
put what kind of whatever kind of um uh what's the word the writing yeah you can put any any kind
00:14:26
of quote you want and these people are basically entirely ripping us off we would appreciate as
00:14:32
pretending to be fans well i mean like whether they're fans or not we need to tell you you're
00:14:37
not allowed to do that this like we we let people do it on on etsy and stuff like that when it's like
00:14:43
individual people um who are like i make this cross stitch for you guys i make this i make that
00:14:49
creators we love that people are doing that you cannot start an internet store of our merch
00:14:54
without uh permission or like talking about it that's you're you're ripping us off yeah and that
00:15:00
isn't inspired by no that's stealing yeah so you you're not allowed to do that and we we understand
00:15:07
there's people that are going to get like we're going to get the this will make waves because
00:15:10
people are like hey we thought we were all gonna and it's like no no no the artist people who and
00:15:15
they know who they are because we talk to them and their listeners we repost their beautiful stuff on
00:15:19
our instagram account and we love it and we want people to make money off this to a degree you
00:15:24
cannot open a store of our merch it's not it's not allowed that's it we're about to leave for
00:15:29
new york let's uh i know is is georgia first or my first who was first oh steven doesn't know
00:15:35
Well, because we did a Q&A last week. Yeah. So, so, what happened the week before?
00:15:40
Yeah. Who answered the first question? Steven! It was a live episode the week before.
00:15:44
Steven, were you in San Diego all day and you just were like at the beach and now you
00:15:48
don't know what's going on? Steven, you do look tan. I was at the zoo. Your face looks good.
00:15:52
Were you looking for dinosaurs at the zoo, Steven? I was. I didn't find anyone. Steven, dinosaurs.
00:15:56
Oh, it was, um, it was, uh, Karen would go first because it was Joan Dolly. Oh, yeah.
00:16:02
So it's me now? Yes. Okay. Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn, host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
00:16:10
This week on the podcast, I'm sitting down with Lily Chu, the author of the Audible original romantic comedy Just Kiss Already.
00:16:18
It's a story about a forensic anthropologist who secretly writes mystery novels, an actress who adapts his book into a film, and what happens when a meme and a media tour collide with a slow burn romance.
00:16:31
It's performed by Simu Liu and Philippa Su, and it is an absolute blast. When you actually hear the performance, you realize that other people are taking your words and what you thought was kind of a straightforward sentence like, the cat in the corner is black.
00:16:49
In my head, it's the cat in the corner is black, not the dog, not the gerbil. But someone else might say it. The cat in the corner is black.
00:16:56
That's always fascinating to me, how they just bring in all these different nuances and really make it fun and interesting and distinctive.
00:17:05
Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
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00:19:17
Well, this is good because actually it's one of those times where we leave tomorrow to go to our New York Boston leg of the tour.
00:19:28
New York Medford, really. And I'm also back working on baskets again. So you know what that means.
00:19:36
I survived. I survived. I survived. Hi. So this is the part where I'm going to retell Georgia and you, if you want to listen, an episode of I Survived.
00:19:48
The best television show, it's now on Lifetime, but you can also get it on iTunes, several seasons.
00:19:53
I don't think all of them. But it's my favorite show. If you've never seen it and you like true crime and the kind of stuff we talk about, you have to watch this show.
00:20:01
It's firsthand accounts of people talking about terrible attacks, disasters, weird accidents, and things where you can't believe that the thing they're going to come to at the end is that they survived it.
00:20:14
Because each story is more horrifying than the last. And then every once in a while, there's like a skiing accident.
00:20:21
Just to cut it. And it comforts you that they survived. The thing I think is cool is that when people tell their own story firsthand, you would think the way you're picturing and hearing the story, as I think as we all kind of do as we read this kind of stuff, it's very fatalistic.
00:20:38
It's very upsetting. It's very scary. But when you see a person very calmly and, you know, every once in a while they'll cry.
00:20:46
But for the most part, they don't. They just tell the story because they've already fucking told the story 50 to 100 times to all different kinds of people.
00:20:53
and now it's like they're possessing their own story. And a lot of times the feeling is amazing
00:20:59
when they get to the end and they smile and the last thing they always ask them is,
00:21:03
why do you think you survived? And then they give this long list of the different reasons
00:21:06
and sometimes it's God and sometimes it's because they love their family so much
00:21:10
or because they thought ahead. Like it's just really brilliant. And there's times where like there's multiple stories
00:21:18
of people getting shot in the fucking head and surviving And they're sitting there telling the story like it's like nothing happened.
00:21:27
It's like an anxiety. It would like relieve my anxiety a little bit. Probably. Well, because it's almost like a terrible roller coaster where it goes all the way up and freaks you out.
00:21:38
And you scream your ass on the way down. And then you're fine. And then you land fine.
00:21:42
And you're like, oh, that was someone else's story. I just lived it with them. It's kind of the idea.
00:21:47
Okay. But also it's really stressful. And the first time I watched it was with my sister.
00:21:51
and she made me watch it and I kept going I don't want to watch this I can't deal with it and she
00:21:55
was like no you have to watch this and it was a story about a one of the people there was three
00:22:00
people every time usually every time and this time one of the women was on a hijacked plane
00:22:07
and got shot in the head and dumped on the tarmac and she lived it's the most unbelievable story
00:22:15
it's so upsetting and so horrifying and yet there she is telling it yeah i mean crazy bananas okay
00:22:23
give it to me i'm like i'll pump now we yeah this is why we love it and this is one i just keep
00:22:28
trying to think when i'm in a pinch and i'm like okay what will i know that i've because there's a
00:22:32
bunch of these i've seen a bunch of times and this is i just try to think of the ones that stand out
00:22:37
in my mind that were like really clear and so this is the episode of i survived that features
00:22:42
Heidi and Christine. I'm not going to tell you anything else about it. I'll just tell you the
00:22:45
story. Okay. So it starts in September of 2002. Heidi Hart and Christine Shannon,
00:22:51
they've just finished a tour of Israel and Egypt. Wow. And yeah, so they decide as their reward for,
00:22:58
as they say, surviving the Middle East, they're going to go to Greece and party for a week and
00:23:04
just like hang out on the beach and just relax. Great. I've just cut right to that one.
00:23:09
they saw the sights i wouldn't love nothing more than to see the pyramids in real life yeah that
00:23:15
would be fucking amazing yeah so anyway they spent two days in athens and then the idea is they plan
00:23:21
on um traveling all around the smaller islands um so that's basically the rest of their trip which
00:23:28
is five more days so they decide they're going to take the five o'clock ferry called the express
00:23:33
Semina to the island of Peros, which is located in the central Aegean Sea. I don't know anything
00:23:41
about the world. So I looked up Greece on a map. And it's so crazy. It's like Greece kind of goes
00:23:49
like in this, you know, like a misshapen crescent on the top. And then there's just all these
00:23:54
islands, just a ton of islands all through that, all through the sea. And so you basically
00:24:00
Kind of like there's Myknos and then there's this one, Peros. Other ones. There are so many of them.
00:24:08
But it's that amazing blue water that looks like a movie. And most of those little islands have those whitewashed buildings.
00:24:19
Everything's white with blue doors, flat roofs. It's amazing looking. My cousins went there.
00:24:26
I'm very jealous of them. That's amazing. Okay. Also, did you ever see the movie Summer Lovers, if we're going to talk about things from the 80s?
00:24:33
No. Well, I highly recommend it to you and all Martarinos. It's a film with Peter Gallagher and Daryl Hannah.
00:24:42
Oh. I think they're supposed to be like in their mid-20s and boyfriend, girlfriend, and they go to Greece for summer.
00:24:52
And they love. And to love each other. but then this fascinating i think she's french woman shows up in the picture and the and basically
00:25:05
i think peter gallagher convinces daryl hannah to have a three-way with them there's just a lot
00:25:10
don't trust peter gallagher yes everyone knows everyone in hollywood knows once you see those
00:25:15
eyebrows you know that you're in danger um this movie was on hbo one night when me and my cousin
00:25:22
and Nancy were sleeping in my Aunt Kathleen's front room when I was probably 10 and she was 12.
00:25:27
And Nancy and I didn't get along because she was two years older than me, but she was the youngest
00:25:31
in her family and I was the youngest in my family. So I drove her fucking crazy. She hated my guts.
00:25:37
But my older sister and her were best friends. Classic fucking move on my sister's part.
00:25:44
But for some reason, my sister either had already gone to sleep or wasn't in. So suddenly me and
00:25:48
Nancy are watching this movie and we're like holy shit this is not for us no and we know that it was
00:25:54
like our bonding moment of like dirty movie you have to be quiet we cannot get caught and also
00:26:01
like full-on sex scenes where both people are naked no dick but like yeah it was mind-blowing
00:26:08
to me and thrilling and uh Nancy I'll always remember you for that exact moment is she okay
00:26:16
is this her eulogy she's no she's like she's just um you know a mother of two grown children and
00:26:24
in the south and she hates you to this day and she she can't hate me anymore because i have secrets
00:26:30
like how we watch summer lovers that night and like we we just kept looking at each other with
00:26:36
the widest eyes like can you believe that he's pouring hot candle wax on her nipples it was
00:26:42
what adults like crazy also i just we didn't have cable in our house so yeah we got to see cable at
00:26:49
my aunt kathleen's house yeah i ever tell you about the time my sister and i ran into the porno
00:26:53
room at our local video store no you can read about it in stay sexy and don't get murdered
00:26:58
the new shared what is it called it's called a shared memoir dual memoir that we wrote
00:27:05
pre-order it on amazon or wherever the fuck you buy it anyways yeah we we ran into the the
00:27:10
dirty section and was there a man in there I don't remember that but we got in a lot of trouble
00:27:16
it was great how long were you in there would you say seconds was so just a few seconds I made
00:27:22
myself stare at one video so I'd be like because I was like turning in circles being like oh my god
00:27:26
I was like eight I think I was like eight probably and my sister and I were doing that and I looked
00:27:30
at one cover and my sister did too and the one that uh I saw was called naked with shoes on
00:27:36
and I was just like this hot young girl and she was naked but like got her like LA gears on and
00:27:42
I was like well that's what's that's like adult thing is sexy and my sister saw one that that's
00:27:47
naked with shoes on is like it's like emergency nakedness that's like something your house blew
00:27:52
up and you just got knocked onto the front lawn it's like that or naked from the waist down
00:27:57
it's just like something's happening that's bad and the one my sister saw was like a lady on a
00:28:01
The cover was the naked lady on a chaise lounge lying out. And it was called Sunny Side Up.
00:28:10
And both of us just ate in time. We got in so much trouble. But it was fucking worth it.
00:28:16
Lee, what's up? The idea of you guys spinning in a circle. Like, take something in.
00:28:21
Oh, my God. Naked with shoes on is the funniest thing I've ever heard in my life.
00:28:26
That's what I would try to get our memoir called. But they wouldn't. You tried to what?
00:28:30
get our memoir called that but unfortunately but they sued us yeah the porno company don't get
00:28:37
murdered just fit a little better okay that's what our lifetime movie will be called okay good
00:28:43
naked but with shoes on and scrunchie socks scrunchie socks okay so they buy third class
00:28:52
tickets we're back uh now with heidi and christine who are taking a ferry trip they buy third class
00:28:58
tickets. And so they when they get onto the boat, they assume that means that they're not allowed to
00:29:03
go below deck or like in the inside protected part. So they just stay out on the top deck.
00:29:09
It's a beautiful day. There's about 540 people taking that five o'clock ferry. And most of the
00:29:17
passengers actually stayed out up on the deck so they could just take in the view because it's those
00:29:21
again, insane blue waters. And like that's, you know, what a lot of people were there for.
00:29:27
The ferry goes out into the ocean. It's about a five and a half hour trip to the island.
00:29:32
And so as they're out and going in the open ocean, Heidi walks to the front of the boat.
00:29:38
And at one point, she looks down and realizes she can see into the control room of the boat.
00:29:43
And she notices that all the controls look really old. But the few crew members that she's seen since she's gotten on the boat all look really, really young.
00:29:54
So that kind of weirds her out And then but the biggest thing is that there didn seem to be anybody around There was no one in the control room and there wasn really anybody around
00:30:05
And so she actually said at one point, she turned to Christine, this is Heidi. She turned to Christine and said, nobody's driving the boat.
00:30:12
I guess we're on autopilot. Yeah. Foreshadowing. Right. So it's about an hour or two into the trip and the winds start to get really strong and
00:30:22
the water starts to get really choppy. So Heidi gets seasick, and they basically decide they're going to hunker down.
00:30:30
They stay on the top deck. They hunker down. They get behind a thing for like a windbreak, and take shelter, and Heidi falls asleep.
00:30:39
So it's about now five and a half hours into the trip. So they're only two miles away from the island of Paros, and it's about 1045 at night.
00:30:49
Oh, my God. Yeah. And so Christine's been reading a book and then she hears the engines change.
00:30:55
And she assumes that means like they're shifting, they're downshifting or whatever, because they're about to go into port.
00:31:02
So she wakes up Heidi and says, grab your backpack, put it on. It seems like we're about to get off this boat.
00:31:08
And Heidi stands up to stretch and put on her backpack. And as she does, she turns around to see a humongous craggy rock that's taking up her entire field division.
00:31:19
so it's directly in front of the boat they said if they walk five steps they could have been they
00:31:24
could have touched it and that they basically were just about to crash into the rocks but but
00:31:31
only like a moment before did they even change from being full full engines on and just remember
00:31:38
it's nighttime oh no and they are because they're in the front they look positions themselves at the
00:31:44
front of the boat they're pretty much as close to the impact point as they can be christine tells
00:31:49
heidi that was so so basically they they were interviewed afterwards um and i saw some of this
00:31:56
it was basically i think it was ap footage um but they said it was like the titanic like they turned
00:32:04
around and this rock was completely lit up it took up all of their field division it was humongous
00:32:10
and it was just like a movie. They said they both felt like they were on a movie set
00:32:15
and then they heard this horrible sound and that was, of course, the ferry just smashing into these rocks
00:32:21
and the impact. They took the impact and then they recovered from that and Christine says to Heidi, like, in a way to try to calm her down,
00:32:31
it took four hours for the Titanic to sink. And Heidi says, we don't have four hours.
00:32:37
This boat is going down. Oh, my God. So immediately the ferry is taking on water and it rolls to its right side.
00:32:46
And again, there's over 500 people on this ferry. All the people are screaming and running.
00:32:53
The lights inside the ferry are blinking off and on. No crew anywhere. There's nobody organizing anything.
00:33:00
Nobody helping anybody. What the fuck? They said that Heidi and Christine said there were people running up and asking them for help.
00:33:06
Yeah. Asking them where to go. And they didn't speak Greek. or not that in any way that like if they did it was not fluent in any way like they couldn't
00:33:15
speak the language so everyone's panicking and everybody begins running to the back of the boat
00:33:21
running away from the impact um and from where it hit and down to the bottom where the other exit is
00:33:28
and where there's a couple of lifeboats they're kind of hiding christine they're staying there
00:33:33
trying to figure out what they should do a group of five men rush past them they knock heidi over
00:33:38
she hits her head and she thinks she's going to pass out, like go unconscious. But she realizes if she does that,
00:33:45
then that means Christine's going to have to carry her body and get her onto a life.
00:33:50
So she's like, I cannot pass out even though it should fucking full on head injury.
00:33:54
So she's, so she fights to stay conscious at the same time. Christine is looking around and seeing how all these panicked people are all
00:34:02
going to the one spot. And she realizes they can't go down there because they'll already,
00:34:07
their last, so they'll already be at the back of the group of people trying to get on those
00:34:12
lifeboats. She knows there's not enough lifeboats. And they don't speak Greek, so they're not going
00:34:17
to be able to bargain their way. They're not going to be able to do anything. So instead,
00:34:21
they decide they're going to go up the other direction and go high away from the group.
00:34:27
There was one, I swear to God, but this could completely be my lying brain. But there was one,
00:34:32
I saw them on a different show that wasn't I Survived. But it was basically the same thing.
00:34:37
It was just a ripoff show. And they told the same story. And one of them said that an old Greek man gestured for them to follow him.
00:34:47
And that's why they went up upward instead of down. Creepy. And then when they turned around,
00:34:52
There's been no old Greek man here since 1949. But, you know, I couldn't find that anywhere.
00:35:02
I couldn't find that episode. And so that could be completely a lie. But I don't think so because it was so, the way Christine told it in that episode was so exact.
00:35:13
And it was so like, what the fuck? I bet it was in Summer Love. Summer Lovers? I bet you're getting them confused.
00:35:20
Where the old man gestures toward a three-way. Come to this threesome. Follow me in my sweater.
00:35:27
She's naked with shoes on. So I also love that this is another thing you get from the TV show I Survived,
00:35:34
is people telling you what their brains did in these panic moments. And I mean, like in this one, especially, I think the reason that it struck me so much
00:35:42
the first four times I've seen it is because all of those moments, like how loud that would be,
00:35:48
how like you'd lose your breath seeing your entire field division taken up with rocks
00:35:53
when you supposed to be on a ferry boat in the ocean Do you think that like there part of you too now that like when something happens and you need to survive it your brain is going to go how do you want to tell this on I Survived
00:36:06
It's like, and then you go from there. And then you just act out the story you want to tell.
00:36:11
Right, which is that you survived. I hope so. Great. I mean, because that's also what I love about it is
00:36:16
there's people that tell that story and that sometimes they go, like, I don't know what I was thinking.
00:36:20
And then sometimes they go, I don't know how I thought of doing this. And that's what this seems to be is when Christine talks about that, she's just like, I just knew we couldn't go down to where everyone else was.
00:36:30
So they head upwards, which I fucking love. Now, maybe the ghost Greek fishermen help them.
00:36:35
We don't know. But they end up, they actually have to do the thing where they grab the railing and pull themselves.
00:36:42
Because by this point, the boat is almost entirely vertical in the water sinking.
00:36:48
Yes. So they're pulling themselves up the rail and then they see that there is a lifeboat on that side of the boat.
00:36:54
And they they end up having to jump off the ferry to jump into the life. Oh, my God.
00:37:00
And also in that AP footage, they show they have them walk up and look at the lifeboat from their rescue.
00:37:09
And it's like this 15 foot long orange. It looks plastic. Like it's an orange plastic boat.
00:37:15
and it has like you know those benches that are in like yeah any like fishing boat it's like four
00:37:22
of those benches long yeah and then there's this box of a pretty tall box of uh life vests on one
00:37:29
end and it's so and the whole thing's orange the whole thing's the life vest orange so they jump
00:37:37
into this boat they're 60 feet above the water yeah so they're it's you know they're basically
00:37:44
jumping down when they jump into the lifeboat oh so it's being lowered and they're like we have
00:37:49
that's the our only chance so they jump off the ship into the lifeboat the lifeboat hits the water
00:37:55
and basically begins to fall apart um the bench heidi's sitting on collapses great her foot goes
00:38:02
through the bottom of the boat no no and then the boat and then the lifeboat starts taking on water
00:38:08
through this hole in her foot so she was trying to keep it covered yeah but also then they're
00:38:13
trying to reach into that box of life jackets and pull as many out as they can so as many people can
00:38:19
put on life jackets as possible because they don't know the water is crazy choppy yeah it's really
00:38:24
windy they don't know what's going to happen so and uh i think it was heidi described that the box
00:38:30
was really tall so after a while they're they can see that there's still more life jackets in the
00:38:36
bottom and no one can get down to that so there's a couple like left at the bottom this is just
00:38:40
fucking like designed poorly yeah the waves at this point are 15 feet high and the lifeboat keeps
00:38:48
getting smashed into the side of the ferry yeah because it's just sitting there yeah so they put
00:38:54
their life jackets on and one man that's in the boat behind them shows them how to turn out there's
00:38:59
emergency strobe lights on all the life jackets and then they turn them all on and then they look
00:39:05
out into the water and one by one they slowly see these emergency strobe lights and there's just
00:39:11
people floating out in the water oh my god um another one of those moments where it's like
00:39:16
when you're in like this disaster and these bizarre visuals yeah like these memories yeah
00:39:22
freak the fuck out of you so they put their life jackets on so now the ferry's almost completely
00:39:30
vertical all the people who tried to run to the top of the boat to get on that lifeboat after
00:39:37
Christine and Heidi they either were stuck stuck in the railings or had slid back down and then
00:39:44
are going into the water as the boat is sinking on the other side um which I think Heidi is the
00:39:50
one that says it's the she was just watching people either try to try to hang on or just
00:39:55
sliding down and falling in. There are one or two other lifeboats in the water at this point.
00:40:01
So I honestly think that these lifeboats are built to hold 12 people. That's what it kind of looks
00:40:06
like. But they don't look sturdy at all from that one clip I saw. So they start seeing people
00:40:12
swimming toward them because they're one of the only boats. And a man in the water reaches out
00:40:18
and Heidi reaches out and grabs his hand and grabs him. And the people on the boat start in broken
00:40:24
English saying no no no too many people don't you can't get him and she was like I'm not fucking
00:40:29
letting this guy's hand go yeah fuck you and she wouldn't let go of him and he was just like
00:40:35
coming on so finally everyone gave in and helped pull him onto the boat because she and it's very
00:40:41
sad because they both are clearly really fucking disturbed because there's all these people that
00:40:47
were just in the water trying to get saved suddenly a bright light comes on and what's happened
00:40:53
much like in the beautiful film dunkirk uh commercial fishermen who were at port and heard
00:40:59
um the crash or the sos call or whatever it was jump into their own fucking fishing boats
00:41:05
and went out there and started rescuing people themselves these fucking greek fishermen so
00:41:12
people start getting pulled out of the water one by one and pulled onto these private boats um
00:41:18
thank god 400 people were rescued holy shit then the weather takes a turn for the worse
00:41:25
the seas are too rough a basically a storm comes in and they have to call off the search after a
00:41:31
while oh no so the friends and family of the missing passengers just had to go down and wait
00:41:37
by like the ferry building on word of where their relative or loved one was and a lot of them never
00:41:45
heard anything because 82 passengers died in that ferry crash. 82 people. Holy shit. And it turned out
00:41:54
that the cap the reason no one saw the captain is because he was asleep And no one saw any of the crew because they were all inside watching a soccer game No And so the captain and four crew members were charged with murder
00:42:07
Oh, my God. Yeah. But only the captain and the first mate were found guilty. They obviously pledged down guilty of criminal negligence and serial manslaughter.
00:42:17
And they got 16 and 19 years in jail, respectively. Holy shit. Yeah. And Heidi, at the end, Heidi and Christine say they survived because of each other, which
00:42:29
is very sweet. But yeah, isn't that fucked up? That is the craziest. I'm never leaving the house again.
00:42:36
Like, I always debate whether I should or not. I kind of shouldn't. I like always, I'm like, no, something bad's going to happen.
00:42:42
And then my brain's like, no, it'll be fine. But this proves to me, don't ever go on vacation.
00:42:48
Don't do things that you think you'll enjoy. And just stay at home. Great. Right?
00:42:53
Is that the lesson? Totally uplifting. Is that the lesson I'm supposed to know? Trust your, count on your friends.
00:43:00
Buy third class tickets. Stay close to the top. Don't run in the direction other people are running.
00:43:05
Okay. Run in a different direction. Yeah. But if seagulls are flying overhead, go in the direction they're going.
00:43:13
Why? I just got that from the day after. Isn't that the day after? The Jake Gyllenhaal movie?
00:43:19
What? The day after tomorrow? The day after tomorrow. Yeah. Okay. Where there's a huge tidal wave coming toward Manhattan.
00:43:25
And so because of that, like 2,000 seagulls fly across like downtown New York City.
00:43:33
And everyone just looks up and then keeps on going about their business. And just like that many birds.
00:43:39
Listen to the seagulls. Listen to them. They don't just want your chips. That was great.
00:43:46
That was a great story. Okay, great. Thank you. I really needed something to tide me over.
00:43:50
I will leave the house again. I promise. might be the most important ones you'll ever have.
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00:46:39
so this is a murder that happened in the late 80s and i and in orange county and i somehow always
00:46:49
forget that it's a hometown of mine and that i remember seeing it happen on the news and i
00:46:55
remember i must have seen the made for tv movie about it because there's some parts of it that
00:47:00
stick out in my brain and i was like under 10 but like in the back of my brain of like oh yeah i
00:47:04
totally remembered that and i remember being there and feeling this empathy for some of the characters.
00:47:09
And I keep coming back to it because I keep forgetting to do it. And now, finally, today
00:47:14
I decided to do it hours before this. We were meant to record. We're doing our best. And yet I did it.
00:47:21
You did it and you made it. So this is this crazy story of manipulation and lies
00:47:25
and it gets turned into a fucking Anne rule book. Yes! Which I didn't know until I studied it today
00:47:30
called If You Really Loved Me. Do you remember it? Second only to The Stranger Beside Me.
00:47:36
If You Really Love Me may have been the next one that came out or something. It's The Murder of Linda Bailey Brown.
00:47:42
Wow. Do you know this story? I don't think so. Okay. I just know the title of that book's really well known.
00:47:47
Okay. To me. It's Bananas. Okay. We should all read it next. Okay. And I don't think we should listen to it because it's a bridge.
00:47:53
So we should read it. Bedside table, etc. It's a bridge. What do you mean? Abridged.
00:47:59
Abridged. Oh, a bridge. Terabithia? Heard of it? I don't want to go to Terabithia.
00:48:07
Okay, the next book we're all going to read is A Bridge to Terabithia. The end. The fact that you had that book like right in hand is so awesome.
00:48:20
Thank you. Okay, let's talk about 14-year-old cinnamon brown. Okay. Which is really hard to Google because that's the color I dye my hair.
00:48:30
Oh. Yeah. It's kind of like, you know, so it becomes a thing. It's two nouns. Yes.
00:48:35
Yeah. But it's a cute name. Anyways, that's not the point of this. Okay. 14-year-old Cinnamon Brown.
00:48:40
She seems like a typical preteen or teenager in the 1980s. She's pretty. She stays out of trouble for the most part.
00:48:46
She's really likable. Has friends, you know, things like this. Yes. In the 1991 made-for-TV movie Love, Lies, and Murder.
00:48:55
Okay. she's played by moira kelly yes you know her moira kelly is from the ice skating movie which
00:49:01
one's that um it's the it's is it the ice skater and the guy who plays no that's the one where they
00:49:07
do the oh yeah and that was filmed petaluma i'm not kidding what's it called sylvester stallone
00:49:12
wrist wrestling competition yeah is that what that's called yeah or arm wrestling we call it
00:49:18
wrist wrestling that's silly but you made the movie so you should know you know the rom-com
00:49:23
where the guy is a hockey player. Yeah. Yes. Moira Kelly's the girl in that. Okay.
00:49:29
She lived in Garden Grove, which Stephen knows we in Orange County called Garbage Grove.
00:49:34
Okay. Not for any reason. It's actually a really lovely suburb, but what a great name to call it.
00:49:38
Yeah, that's a good slam. It's very Garbage Pail Kids view. We're just kind of doing a slight twist.
00:49:44
You'll remember it from a Sublime song, etc. Of course I will. You only you, Karen.
00:49:51
Yes. Because you know the whole catalog. I write the lyrics out in my notebook. The notebook that's your favorite book?
00:49:57
That you would only read? Okay. All right. It's quiet, Severu in Orange County. She lives there with her dad.
00:50:07
He's a 37-year-old, super wealthy computer businessman, whatever that means. God, that sounds young to me.
00:50:14
I know. It's like people having children. It's younger than me. But he's like a grown-up, too.
00:50:19
Like, if you've seen photos of him, he's like, he's played by Clancy Brown. Yes.
00:50:24
You mean the owner of the Krusty Krab? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. From SpongeBob. So he was in Pet Sematary 2, which was what they, in the trailer for this Maber TV movie,
00:50:35
that go, and from Pet Sematary 2. Like, that's his major credit then in 91. But then I went and looked at his IMDb, and he has done so many fucking voiceovers.
00:50:42
Like, that's his thing. Yes. Right. But he's also a great actor. Yeah, he's like one of the unsung actors.
00:50:50
Character actors. He always plays like a sheriff type of guy. Right. So he's the dad.
00:50:56
He's 37-year-old David Brown. He's a computer wizard. He had been a millionaire by the time he was 32.
00:51:02
Like this guy, you know, he lives with... So Cinnamon lives with him and his new wife, 23-year-old Linda Marie Brown,
00:51:12
played by Catherine Duprume. deep room i don't she's in fire walk with me twin peace fire walk with me oh as as who i don't know
00:51:22
okay i don't know she nailed it she got into two things pretty blonde woman okay so but still she
00:51:29
did you say 24 23 and he's 37 yeah right and it's a bit of a that's very uh orange county in that
00:51:37
era yeah maybe like the divorce right right that's true second wife nope fourth wife hello
00:51:45
clancy brown what's going on his fourth fourth wife at 37 i think it's her fourth marriage his
00:51:52
fourth marriage and i think one of the other marriages was to her so i love those yeah the
00:51:58
like get divorced then get remarried yes that's pretty special it's so dramatic it is and what a
00:52:03
waste of paperwork lots of money too um so so linda is david's fourth marriage um the first
00:52:12
his first marriage was cinnamon's mother that had ended in infidelity when cinnamon was four
00:52:17
and so she had kind of been back and forth between her mom and dad since then um and linda
00:52:22
the the wife had met david when she was just 13 or 14 years old oh yeah and he was in his early 20s
00:52:30
so linda was living at home with her abusive alcoholic mother and her 10 fucking siblings
00:52:36
no which like isn't a thing in orange county either unless you're mormon that's also that's
00:52:41
very 50s it's like yeah because this did you say it's the 80s it's the 80s yeah yeah i didn't
00:52:47
being from orange county i don't think i knew anyone there was one mormon family that had five
00:52:52
siblings and everyone else like we were weird for being three yeah it's like doesn't happen yeah we
00:52:57
We had one family, but it's Catholics. But that's very old school Catholic. Yeah.
00:53:03
So David sweeps in, and he's like a knight in shining armor. He provides the family with food.
00:53:09
He kind of acts like a father figure. He takes care of everyone and throws his money around,
00:53:13
impresses the alcoholic, abusive mother. Nice. As only a sociopath can do. And she's real tough to please.
00:53:21
Yeah, because you know how hard that is. Yeah. So David tells the mother that he's dying of colon cancer.
00:53:26
he only has six months to live he's really weak so he's having a hard time uh around the house can
00:53:31
can linda her teenage her like 13 14 year old daughter and another one of linda's little sisters
00:53:38
come help around the house his house he'll pay them for help out and the mom's like great i'm
00:53:43
an alcoholic i have a ton of other kids to worry about yeah take get them out of here great great
00:53:48
then so miraculously though David beats the cancer that he never had Jesus it a very special place in health the people that claim to have cancer and do not No totally Insane And by then Linda who 15 at this point
00:54:06
is madly in love with David. They're having a sexual relationship at this point.
00:54:11
Oh, shit. Yeah, so he's in his late 20s now. She's 15. That's pedophilia. Uh-huh.
00:54:16
And Linda's in love with him. So finally, at 17, she gets permission to marry David.
00:54:22
and uh let's see they get back to they get together linda brings linda moves in with david
00:54:29
and brings her little sister patty to live with cinnamon who now lives with her dad david okay
00:54:35
and linda so cinnamon patty is two years older than cinnamon okay um and cinnamon had been
00:54:42
struggling with her parents divorce they admittedly used her as a pawn between the two of them to get
00:54:47
back at each other um and linda the wife's now 23 she had had just had a baby girl seven months
00:54:53
before named crystal okay so does that all make sense there's a lot of girls names yes i think so
00:55:00
patty's the little sister cinnamon is the original daughter yeah she's the od um there's a new baby
00:55:07
named crystal which is makes it what 1986 hang on now with a k no i have to fucking lootly with a k
00:55:16
come on that's such a period of time orange county that's right what up crystal and all
00:55:22
crystals with a k across the nation yes what up hi gals so uh all right so that's where everything
00:55:30
stood the morning in the early morning hours of march 19th 1985 wow here we are really close
00:55:38
four years old like 20 minutes away sleeping probably yes let's hope god when cinnamon woke
00:55:44
up in the middle of the night so she's 14 wakes up in the middle of the night walks into her
00:55:50
stepmother linda's bedroom where linda's sleeping alone david's not there she points a 38 caliber
00:55:57
gun uh to linda's chest and shoots her point blank with two silver tipped bullets oh my god
00:56:06
yeah 14 year old cinnamon i was trying to guess you were wrong not no that wasn't in there
00:56:13
yeah police are called and they get there and find david uh the father who at the time of the
00:56:20
shooting had been at a local convenience store uh he it's confirmed by the store clerk that he was
00:56:26
there buying comic books and pre-packaged fruit pies which absolutely signed me up for that i mean
00:56:32
yeah that's what that's what a convenience store is for right and and so he's standing there with
00:56:37
his wife's younger sister, Patty, who I think is 17 at the time. And Patty's holding the baby.
00:56:44
They're both straw. They're saying, Patty's saying, David said they got home. Patty told me
00:56:49
she heard some gunshots and she's freaking out. I'm too scared to go in the back bedroom and look
00:56:52
what happened. I can't go back there. I peeked in and I saw Linda's arm hanging off the bed and
00:56:58
of blood but i'm just i i'm too freaked out to go back there um and so they uh they take linda
00:57:07
she's still breathing oh they pack her up and take her to the hospital but she dies pretty
00:57:11
quickly after that yeah from the gunshot wounds and cinnamon is nowhere to be found
00:57:16
um officers scour the neighborhood and they can't find her they call her friends and to see if
00:57:22
they're with she's with her friends friends are all fucking shocked to hear about this because
00:57:26
to them and to cinnamon's mother this is not like cinnamon at all she's a sweet kind funny girl she's
00:57:32
obedient to her father who she adores and just like is such a huge fan of her dad's they said
00:57:38
that linda and cinnamon seemed to get along so they don't know why she would shoot her stepmother
00:57:43
um and also that she seemed a lot younger than her 14 years she was kind of a you know and not
00:57:48
immature but what's the innocent innocent child yeah wow but finally at around 5 a.m and this is
00:57:54
the part that I remember hearing the first time as a five or six-year-old being like,
00:58:01
picturing it perfectly in my mind, and I can still see what I saw then. Around 5 a.m.,
00:58:05
an officer is in the backyard of the house and notices that there is a figure laying in the
00:58:10
doghouse. There's a backyard. There's a doghouse. He sees something going on in there. There he
00:58:16
finds 14-year-old Cinnamon. She's frail and scared. She's nearly comatose, curled in the
00:58:22
field position. She'd been there for hours and was soaked in her own urine and also surrounded
00:58:27
by her own vomit, in which are these tiny orange pills from the three bottles of pills she had
00:58:32
swallowed to try to overdose on after the shooting. In her hand, she's clutching a crumpled suicide
00:58:37
note, and it reads, Dear God, please forgive me. I didn't mean to hurt her. Oh, no. They take her
00:58:45
to the hospital. Just kidding. They take her to the police station. No. They take her directly to
00:58:49
the police station, even though she's continuing to vomit from her overdose. Medics check her and say, no, it's okay to continue with questioning her.
00:59:00
She's okay. Jesus Christ. So she admits that she fired the gun that killed her stepmom.
00:59:05
She said she didn't get along with her. And Linda had told her she was going to kick her out of the house.
00:59:12
And she thought Linda was jealous of her relationship with her dad and that Linda had threatened
00:59:16
to kill her if she didn't move out. And that's why she did it. Jesus. And that's what she tells them.
00:59:20
Her condition starts to deteriorate. So she's finally taken the fucking hospital.
00:59:24
And there she's handcuffed to the hospital bed. She's starting to go fall into unconsciousness when she starts to mumble some stuff.
00:59:32
And so a nurse is like what this sounds like something like it sounds rehearsed like she's repeating a list.
00:59:40
I'm going to write it down. So she writes down this. Haven't slept in 24 hours. Had an accident.
00:59:47
Killed my stepmom. killed my stepmother didn't want to do it on didn't do it on purpose didn't mean to she was
00:59:53
hurting me she hated me she wanted to kill me she wanted me out of the house and then she falls into unconsciousness but she does survive and she okay So according to David her dad Linda the stepmom and Cinnamon
01:00:08
had gotten in a fight that night as they often did. They often bickered. And Linda had sent
01:00:14
Cinnamon to what, where she stayed and like slept and hung out. There was like a travel trailer in
01:00:20
the back i don't like an airstream kind of thing i'm assuming where cinnamon slept and lived because
01:00:26
the house was so small she'd come in for food and like to use the bathroom and stuff like that
01:00:30
so linda had sent her to her trailer and uh they and so david and linda had continued fighting he
01:00:38
stormed out of the house which is why he was gone when this thing took place and when he finally got
01:00:43
home is when he found patty uh saying that there had that something happened that linda had that
01:00:50
she had heard shots in Linda's room and that Cinnamon had also tried to shoot her because
01:00:54
there was one bullet in Patty's room. So there were three shots. Shit. But when they questioned David again, 24 hours after the incident, his story changes in slight
01:01:06
ways that contradict what Patty is saying. And so Patty had said that after Linda had gone to sleep, Cinnamon had come to her with
01:01:14
a gun and was like, hey, can you show me how to use this? Which is like, don't do it.
01:01:19
Right. But she shows her how to use it, doesn't think anything of it, and goes to bed.
01:01:24
Let's see. Okay. Of course, this seems totally fucking fishy to detectives, right?
01:01:30
Yes. But Cinnamon's admitting everything. She's saying that she did it. She wanted her stepmom dead.
01:01:40
But she couldn't give them a good reason why. She just said she wanted to, and she told them exactly what happened.
01:01:45
And David did tell them that it fit with her current mental state, because a couple weeks earlier she had tried to OD on aspirin.
01:01:51
So it was like maybe she was depressed or something. She goes to Juvie. She goes straight from the hospital to Juvie.
01:01:59
And on August 7th, 1985, Cinnamon's trial begins. So she pleads not guilty by reason of insanity.
01:02:07
At this point, she's interviewed by a psychiatrist and she doesn't remember anything about it at night
01:02:12
or why she would have done it. She doesn't know anything. And the psychiatrist who's treating her
01:02:18
says that she didn't know right from wrong the night of the murder. Ooh. But in her original story from the night of the murder,
01:02:23
when they took her straight from the fucking doghouse to the police station is actually not admissible.
01:02:30
So they don't have that anymore. What they do have, though, is the nurse's testimony
01:02:35
and what the nurse wrote down about what she was babbling while she was fucking incoherent, basically.
01:02:40
Right. So the prosecution uses that. And with that, she is found guilty of first-degree murder.
01:02:47
Yeah. her father doesn't show up to her trial what she thinks that you know maybe he's mad at her
01:02:53
killing his wife which is like sure okay but david does show up at the sentencing hearing
01:02:59
but detectives are like skeeve the fuck out by this dude because they he's like smiling and acting
01:03:05
like a little kid his ex-wife is sitting in the chair you know cinnamon's mom in front of him he's
01:03:09
like kicking at it like pulling her hair flirtatiously and shit and he's just being a
01:03:13
fucking weirdo and they're just like this is weird this dude's that's so uncomfortable isn't it creepy
01:03:19
that's crazy yeah that's your boy clancy way to go um so cinnamon is sentenced to 27 years to life for the murder of her stepmother but because she's
01:03:33
a juvenile she's sent to a youth facility until no later than 25 years old so the that happens
01:03:41
great okay the original investigator on the case with the da jay newell had never felt comfortable
01:03:47
about this at all he knew there was something fucking going on here that was more than what
01:03:51
cinnamon was telling them yeah but she was a minor and so he kind of just kept an eye on everyone
01:03:56
he would put um he would put it's like straight up like the sinner the first season of the sinner
01:04:02
i was just gonna say doesn't it sound like bill pullman remember she was just like no i've just
01:04:06
killed him i just killed him i'm going away i don't want to talk about it he's like there's
01:04:09
something fucking going on yeah like remember when he was like show me how to shoot this heroin up
01:04:13
yeah that's right i don't know how yeah i fucking knew it um so he keeps at her though and he also
01:04:20
continues to visit her and judy just is like a friend because her dad stops visiting her
01:04:24
oh the noblest of cops i know the noblest of like homicide detectives right the ones who
01:04:31
the person they're supposed to be trying to get found a guilty charge against and if their
01:04:39
gut is wrong they're actually trying to help. They don't want to. Yeah, they don't want it.
01:04:43
They don't want that guilty charge if it doesn't count. Yeah, because normal people
01:04:47
with ethics are like, no, we want justice to be served and we want the right person
01:04:51
to be in jail, not just someone to be in jail. Especially if it's a fucking 14 year old girl.
01:04:57
And he puts money in her commissary, makes sure she's taken care of and shit. Um, meanwhile, her dad's rich as shit, but he's not doing that.
01:05:04
He's just gone. Yeah. Um, so meanwhile, Patty and David, the David, the dad and Patty, the sister of the now dead
01:05:16
wife, Linda. Don't tell me. No, no. They're, they're living together. Okay. So they continue to live together.
01:05:22
Baby Crystal with a K is still like, she's taking care of her. The house is falling apart.
01:05:27
So a friend of Linda's offers to help come over and like pack up Linda's stuff and take care of some things around the house.
01:05:32
I think she's played by what's her face from Sex and the City? Kim Cudrell? No. Do I guess another one?
01:05:40
Cynthia Nixon? Yes. Oh, yeah, yeah. She's played by her, I believe. She notes that Patty is taken to wearing Linda's clothing.
01:05:47
17-year-old Patty is wearing her dead older sister's clothing. She sitting in what was Linda chair and she replace all of Linda pictures with pictures of herself that not necessary You can keep the pictures and then add more pictures And actually this story reminds me a lot
01:06:05
of the story from The Teacher's Pet. Yes. That really great podcast that we should all listen to.
01:06:09
Amazing. If you haven't listened to The Teacher's Pet, you absolutely have to. It's from The Australian.
01:06:14
Yes. The newspaper, The Australian. And it's just done so well. And it's one of those things too,
01:06:18
where it's like, this is Red Flag City. Yes. But no one ever noticed it. In the 80s, Red Flag City hadn't been established yet because there would be nobody there to raise the red flag because everything was like mind your own business.
01:06:35
I don't want to. Yeah. Fucking 80s were a red flag. They were tough. The whole thing was a red flag.
01:06:40
Sorry. Can I just ask really quick? Do you remember who played the cop that was trying to be on Cinnamon's side?
01:06:45
No, because they don't name the cops real name. You know what I mean? So I couldn't find this guy, Jane Newell.
01:06:51
It was like, it was like Sergeant, someone else. It wasn't like, you know what I mean?
01:06:55
And it would, there was multiple. I bet you could find it. Okay. If Stevens wants to look.
01:06:59
Can you, can you? Stevens found it. Oh, shit. He's got it. I was going to say there's, um, there is a Sergeant Patterson.
01:07:05
That's probably him. And he's a Paul Holes-ish kind of looking fellow. He reminds me of a Paul Holes.
01:07:10
John, John M. Jackson. Here's his IMDb. John M. Jackson played him. Who's that? Uh, you know, all these people, John Ashton.
01:07:21
Nestor Serrano you've seen all these people yeah on every tv show character actors from forever
01:07:26
and ever yes exactly amen yeah um they were on like one episode of like uh what's a show
01:07:34
LA Law yeah John Ashton you've seen on tons of stuff there's a couple of them and Nestor Serrano
01:07:40
also has been in a million he's always the detective especially if it happens in LA yes
01:07:45
love it okay so meanwhile they're all living together the the fucking friend is like skeeved
01:07:51
out by this shit if patty also gets jealous of this friend when david and her are if they're
01:07:57
ever like alone together it's just like this something fucking ain't right here she's she
01:08:01
is convinced at this point she gets the fuck out of there she's like i think patty fucking killed
01:08:05
her killed linda i don't think cinnamon did it but whoa she leaves and six and sticks to her own
01:08:11
business right because it's the 80s so all right let's cut to three and a half years
01:08:16
uh of cinnamon living at the california youth authority fucking what was known as juvie right
01:08:23
and i i remember being really scared of going to juvie in orange county because the stories i heard
01:08:28
from there as a young rebellious teen were like terrible it was like you can do shitty things but
01:08:34
don't do anything shitty enough to end up in juvie because no you won't make it well also i
01:08:38
think people get a very romantic teenagers can be very romantic about like oh i'm gonna get
01:08:43
rested and that's gonna make me this it's gonna make me that it's like no it's gonna break your
01:08:47
fucking heart i don't want to deal with the other girls in fucking juvie they won't like me there's
01:08:51
a lot of hair pulling and juvie there's a lot of insulting that's right they'll be mean they'll be
01:08:56
mean they'll pinch you but then they also might make you sad oh my god and what if you have a
01:09:00
bond with them i did go to rehab in santa ana with like girls rehabby like juvie girls and they were
01:09:06
all lovely sweet very fucking traumatized girls yeah and the stories that they told a group were
01:09:12
heartbreaking even as a 13 year old i was like oh i better fucking get my shit together yeah they
01:09:17
were really sad shit so uh three and a half years in cinnamon is now 18 and jay's been sticking
01:09:26
around our cop dude and he can sense that she's ready to start talking and like maybe stuck around
01:09:31
for three years he's just been like checking in on her and shit god bless him bless his heart
01:09:36
bless us he'll be played by paul holes um in the movie we're writing about it so he can sense she's
01:09:43
ready to talk about what happened but there's some uh he knows david's no longer visiting
01:09:47
and he is like i know how to how to get her to talk and that is to tell her what's really going
01:09:53
on in her with david right now oh no he's like once she finds out she's like i think she's been
01:09:58
covering for david yeah for her father yeah who she fucking adores and like thinks the sun shines
01:10:04
out as a fucking asshole. So, what she tells him is this. What he tells her is this.
01:10:11
So, number one, after Linda's death, David, from the four life insurance policies he had
01:10:18
taken out on Linda, his wife, got almost $1 million in life insurance money. Sorry, and he already was a millionaire.
01:10:25
Yes. And so, he'd been living the fucking high life. He had multi-million dollar homes in Orange County.
01:10:31
He was fucking living it up, buying all the sweet shit. in his multimillion dollar home where he lives,
01:10:36
as I said, with his former sister-in-law, Patty, now 20 years old. Guess what? What?
01:10:42
Right before cinnamon sentencing, Patty and David got married. Yeah, I could see that one coming,
01:10:48
even though it was the creepiest option of all. It always is. You sensed it. Yeah.
01:10:54
So that's his sixth marriage. Yeah, his sixth marriage. Second within that family.
01:10:59
Yep. Guess what? They now have a baby daughter together. Oh, no. um so cinnamon brown is like okay fuck this dude yeah clearly this guy has been using me
01:11:10
i'm fucking talking she tells authorities that her father orchestrated the entire scheme
01:11:15
and patty was involved in it too whoa um she realizes that she's been totally conned by her dad
01:11:22
and she tells him that the truth is that david is a fucking crazy manipulative manipulative dude
01:11:27
it's almost like he's he could easily lead this cult he was into young girls and he would manipulate
01:11:32
them and tell him these crazy things and he was just really good at that stuff. Total sociopath.
01:11:37
He had brainwashed his daughter into believing that Linda, David's wife, was going to kill him.
01:11:43
Her. Him. Wait. David convinced Cinnamon that Linda was trying to kill him. Him.
01:11:49
Yeah. So, he and Patty together told Cinnamon for months that they needed her to kill Linda or David was either going to get killed or he'd have to leave to
01:12:00
and never see her again because he'd had a run from linda what the fuck yeah um he told they
01:12:06
they hounded her for months that they needed her help and uh they convinced her that as a minor
01:12:11
she wouldn't get any jail time for the murder she'd maybe have to get some fucking therapy
01:12:15
but that was it and he said if you really love me you'll do this for me i'm your father and i know
01:12:20
it's best oh my god yeah and they they said that linda was trying to kill him to get his money in
01:12:26
his business but what was really happening is he's having an affair with a teenager and trying to get
01:12:32
rid of his already very young wife who just had the other baby who he was obsessed with since she
01:12:37
was a teenager or fucking since she was a teenager too now that she's 20 something and has a baby
01:12:42
he's not interested anymore because he's a straight up pedophile similarly to the teacher's pet story
01:12:48
yes and now he's trading her in for her fucking younger teenage sister wow yeah that's evil and a
01:12:56
great way to do it is to get your daughter who is young and naive by everyone's account to do it for
01:13:02
you to commit murder hold on okay it gets worse no yeah um cinnamon says the night of the murder
01:13:11
patty told her that she had overheard linda on the phone saying like we need to kill david right
01:13:17
away and so that in the middle of the night david woke patty and cinnamon up and said to said to
01:13:24
them girls it has to be done tonight so he originally told cinnamon that she uh needs to
01:13:30
make it seem like she tried to kill herself out of guilt of the murder so he says she needs to
01:13:35
once she kills linda she needs to shoot herself in the head but just graze your head so it looks
01:13:40
like a suicide attempt um it'll be just a scratch he tells her uh but she says she's too scared
01:13:47
and so instead he says okay how about instead take these three bottles of pills um you they're
01:13:53
not enough to kill you. You'll be fine. And so she does that. So she says she swallows the pills.
01:13:59
She sees her dad drive away. And then she goes down to the doghouse. And from there,
01:14:03
she hears the three gunshots inside the house as Patty killed the sister. Wait, but so the case is
01:14:10
reopened. They need cooperation. So they get cinnamon to wear a wire. They have David come
01:14:15
to visit. She's like, I'm freaking out. I don't know. You told me I wouldn't get any time. Why
01:14:19
am I still here? You said I wouldn't be here for long. And he had been, so he won't admit to it though.
01:14:26
And he continues to try to manipulate her. He tells her that Patty can just come take her place.
01:14:30
He can work it out. Just have them choose switch place. And like, she'll come take care of,
01:14:36
like come take the rest of the time. Yeah. And they can convince everyone that Patty was the killer.
01:14:42
He can range for it. But then Jay, who's listening on the wire is like, something's fucking off about this.
01:14:47
Cinnamon is not telling me the truth. I can tell. So she finally admits that she actually was the one who pulled the trigger.
01:14:54
But everything else is true. They fucking manipulated her into doing it. She didn't understand what's going to happen.
01:15:01
She said David, her dad gave her a pillow and told her to hold it over the trigger when shooting Linda.
01:15:07
And then said to them, you girls take care of business while I'm gone and left. So Cinnamon had gone in, held the pillow up, shot her once, but the pillow had jammed the gun.
01:15:18
so she brings it back over into patty's room and is like i don't know what's happening with this
01:15:22
gun it goes off which is why there was a shot in her room oh like me apparently like grazing
01:15:29
almost hitting crystal the baby oh she's fine um but then they hear linda moaning in the other room
01:15:36
because she's still alive she goes back in and shoots her one last time oh no then she takes
01:15:41
the pills and goes down to the doghouse jay asked cinnamon if david had shown her if david was the
01:15:48
wanted to show her where to shoot yourself in the head when he was like, you'll graze your head.
01:15:52
And Cinnamon says, yeah. And that's when she realizes that if she had shot herself the way
01:15:58
he showed her to do it, it wouldn't have grazed her, it would have killed her. And that's when
01:16:01
she realizes he was trying to kill her too. And in fact, the pills she took, the only reason she
01:16:08
didn't die from them is because she threw up in the doghouse. So she absolutely would have died
01:16:12
from the the pills um she realizes that's going on then they realized that that he had insurance
01:16:18
policies out against her too of course he was trying to kill both of them oh god yeah and pin
01:16:23
the whole thing on his daughter that he killed he's a fucking psycho psycho like ann rule i think
01:16:28
was more afraid of him than he was she was of ted bundy she said he was like the biggest manipulator
01:16:33
sociopath she's ever seen well and also just to to just keep on doing it within the family
01:16:38
in the family. I mean, there is something really especially heinous about it. It gets worse, worse.
01:16:45
Oh, my God. Yep, sorry. It's okay. I like it. I know, right? Patty and David are arrested.
01:16:52
Patty's 20 by now. They're arrested, and David frantically writes to Patty to try to keep her loyalty to him in prison.
01:16:59
Yeah. But she turns on him, too, when she hears the wiretap of him saying, we'll get Patty to take the blame for it.
01:17:06
Fuck this shit. This guy's an idiot. He's not smart. like what a super monster is also it's funny and like those just like a sociopath or whatever
01:17:14
psychopath but like that they the charm doesn't really work on paper it's like yeah it really is
01:17:20
a person to person face-to-face thing so like the idea that he's trying to put all that manipulation
01:17:26
down on the page well what doesn't what we understand about uh controlling people is that
01:17:32
the reason that people like this who are crazy controlling make you not have any friends and
01:17:36
family like around you anymore is because the minute you're not in that in that person's like
01:17:41
orbit anymore it all falls apart in cracks yes because of reality and if you have like just one
01:17:46
bitchy friend that's like sorry that guy's got fucking weird eyes i don't like him he leans in
01:17:51
too far when he talking totally and he acts like he in love with you and he fucking lying yeah exactly yeah that right that why you always have to be the friend who hates your friend boyfriend You have to It for their own good It for their own good
01:18:06
Unless... What? I don't know. Unless you're the psychopath. Unless you're trying to get that boyfriend.
01:18:13
What if you're the friend who's a sociopath? And he's like, your friend's a fucking sociopath.
01:18:17
I mean, there's all these possibilities of who I could be. I have all the choices in the world.
01:18:22
I didn't mean you. but you do always tell me to break up with vincent like he is hurting you behind your back
01:18:30
listen i only hit on him to see if he would do anything about it and he didn't which means he's a good guy it was a test i'm so happy for you it was a test i made it
01:18:39
up so uh so he's trying to get her to not talk but she turns on him too so thank god and part
01:18:48
of the reason is because uh when she got so when they got married he was like it's secret don't
01:18:54
tell anyone because of course the police would be like what the fuck but also because she was a child
01:18:59
and everyone would judge him so she preceded that then she got knocked up by him and he was like
01:19:03
we're telling everyone that you had an affair and it's not my kid because you're too young and it's
01:19:06
creepy that's only after he tried to get her to get an abortion and she was like fuck no but tell
01:19:11
everyone that some other dude knocked you up god um and he makes he refuses to pay for any of the
01:19:19
uh the baby having business you know medical costs thank you um and sorry the super millionaire uh-huh he's like you have to pay for it he's even more of a
01:19:35
millionaire because of his murders yeah and he's like sorry that she helped fucking uh make happen
01:19:42
that would not have happened without her right jesus christ so when their daughter's had her
01:19:46
heather heather is born their daughter is heather's born he refuses to pay medical
01:19:49
um having to do with her but he does take out hundreds of thousands of dollars of life insurance
01:19:53
on the baby so she's like god you know what go fuck yourself yeah goodbye she tells police that
01:20:00
they've been planning the murder of her sister for three years together and that cinnamon hadn't
01:20:05
even brought into the last two months whoa they had tried lynn uh patty had tried to kill her
01:20:11
sister once too but she couldn't go through with it she chickened out so instead they're like let's
01:20:14
have cinnamon do it she's a minor convince her to do it then patty drops all right here's the last
01:20:19
it gets worse okay she tells them that david had been molesting her since she was 11 years old
01:20:24
oh my god so this is when i kind of don't it kind of clears her she was just as big of a pawn as he
01:20:31
as cinnamon was that entire time yeah so she'd been manipulated and controlled probably longer
01:20:37
than cinnamon had yes and being victimized and abused right and sorry do we know that cinnamon
01:20:42
was not molested that never ever came out and i don't think so yeah um it almost seems like
01:20:50
she was off limits somehow in like a pawn in the with the ex-wife right who fucking knows maybe
01:20:57
yeah yeah no no i it oh my god i know like he it wouldn't surprise me this guy's a monster
01:21:04
also just the sad thing we were just talking about this before we started um recording but
01:21:09
it's that horrifying thing of like when those pedophiles and those predators they pick people
01:21:16
who have divorced parents they pick kids who don't have advocates that stand around going
01:21:20
get the fuck out of here yeah they make sure to pick the 11th child of the alcoholic family well
01:21:27
It turns out that she had left her alcoholic mother's house when she left to move in with David and Linda because she had been molested at that house.
01:21:35
I'm sure some dude who rolled through. Right. So, yeah, she was, you know, just this this clear victim and was taken advantage of by this fucking monster.
01:21:46
And I feel like if that is normalized to you at such a young age, then when he's, it's like, it's not, to that child's mind, that's a norm.
01:21:58
Well, David told her lots of men did that to teach young women about sex. That's what he told her.
01:22:02
This is normal. So he just normalized all of that victimization. And then like the brainwashing was just the natural next step.
01:22:09
Yeah. And she lived in the house with him. There's no way for her to like escape it.
01:22:14
Yeah. He's supposed to be a father. Right. Type. It's disgusting. All horrifying.
01:22:19
Yeah. And then, then, you know, they, they, then at 15 saying like, we need to get rid of your sister because I'm in love with you and I want
01:22:30
you to be the white. Like, so that her obsession of getting rid of her sister has to do with being
01:22:34
special, keeping this guy who's been the one that, you know, quote unquote, take care of her.
01:22:39
And quote unquote, love her. Right. Where if you have a life where you know, no one ever loved you or acted like they loved you then you've got some millionaire with stars
01:22:50
in his eyes over you so it's so sad too to think of linda the wife who had no idea in her mind this
01:22:57
fucking knight in shining armor came and saved her she had a baby and she was you know and she
01:23:02
was saving her little sister and she got a raised cinnamon who by all accounts she actually did get
01:23:07
along with. And so she just had no idea that she was in an insanely unsafe situation and had no
01:23:15
chance to escape it. It was just like the fucking cobra was right there in the house. It's so,
01:23:20
it's so awful. Isn't it? So now in jail, David, okay, now David's in jail. Okay. He is going to
01:23:29
go to trial for all this shit. He hires a fellow inmate, a fellow prisoner to kill the Orange
01:23:37
county deputy district attorney jeffrey robinson oh investigator jay newell our pal holes of the
01:23:43
story shit and to also kill the third victim his fucking uh ex his wife patty so he hires him to
01:23:52
this dude to kill all these people um she because she become a key witness at this point right uh jailhouse snitch like snitches get lollipops as we always say snitches get candy was like guess what and so that thank god didn
01:24:07
happen so at the trial also just sorry about the ego of that like i'm not just gonna kill the
01:24:13
deputy district attorney which is like good luck huge yeah like you think you wouldn't get caught
01:24:19
but i'm also gonna kill like people who are doing their jobs because you're a monster and
01:24:24
terrifying and you're where you're supposed to be and you're going to kill them because you're
01:24:27
mad at them for fucking doing their jobs for doing their jobs and keeping you the super psycho and
01:24:33
the place you need to be right and top of which it's that idea that a person that's that psychotic
01:24:38
would also have that much money yeah that's what's scary oh yeah because i'm sure it's that thing that
01:24:43
trump thing of like anyone will do anything i say because i have so much money i buy people off and
01:24:48
i buy buy buy buy fucking true yeah once you can just throw money at anyone you don't have to be
01:24:53
you know a good person not at all you don't want to you get anything you want that's right so gross
01:24:58
um so at the trial both cinnamon and patty testify against him so according to cinnamon's testimony
01:25:04
and this is why this book is called that the thing her father would say repeatedly to gain her
01:25:09
cooperation uh in the murder scheme was he would repeat if you loved me you would do this for me
01:25:16
yeah if you loved me you do this like so that's how it worked um an orange county jury took less
01:25:22
than seven hours to convict David Brown on first degree murder for a financial gain and
01:25:26
conspiracy conspiracy. The judge said that he was worse than Charles Manson. Oh, shit. Like,
01:25:34
I've, I've never, I've never seen a bigger fucking sociopath, even Charles Manson than you. Yeah.
01:25:41
Because Charles Manson did it to fucking strangers. You know what I mean? Like you did this shit to
01:25:45
fucking people who love you. That's right. And trust you and are your family, like your own
01:25:49
daughter yeah uh and that orders david who's at this point 37 years old to spend the rest of his
01:25:55
life in prison with no chance of parole in may of 1989 patty who is now 21 she pleads guilty in a
01:26:03
sentence to the same youth facility that cinnamon was at for about the same amount of time 25
01:26:08
into the age of 25 um she's released when she's 25 um cinnamon was released in february of 1992
01:26:17
she got paroled so she was still in there at 21 she's finally released so cinnamon had served
01:26:22
eight years in the uh in juvie jesus christ so both patty and cinnamon went on to marry and have
01:26:28
children and it seems like they keep kind of quiet yeah which is crazy yeah and in march of 2014
01:26:34
david brown at 61 years old died of natural causes in prison good yep and that is the story of the
01:26:41
murder of linda bailey brown god damn yeah that was every way but loose how did i never do that
01:26:50
it's like my hometown murder that i remember from fucking childhood hometown that's crazy
01:26:55
god that's i mean it was just all the bad things in one thing he victimized every fucking woman
01:27:01
that came near him and his family yeah jesus christ young girl that he manipulated me to
01:27:08
manipulated and i mean truly like a cult like you know cult leader mentality yes and really
01:27:14
so merciless just like really just an unrepentant pedophile yeah selfish greedy how fucking many
01:27:26
more millions of dollars do you need totally totally you psycho it's just so bananas um
01:27:31
So let's all read the book, Anne Rule book. Anne Rule books. I'm sure there's just a ton more horrible information in there.
01:27:40
Yeah, I bet there is. Yeah. And the Anne Rule twist, which is how she explains things in that loving motherly way.
01:27:50
And I think she interviews him in prison, too. Interviews him? Uh-huh. Oh, shit.
01:27:55
Now I have to read that book. Or we can just watch the movie Love, Lies, and Murder.
01:28:00
it's on youtube it's like oh shit two and a half hours long or something guys that's it that's i
01:28:07
could take that download that for the plane flight yeah hey hey all right so what's your fucking
01:28:13
hooray um i will say this now yoga has gone to the wayside a bit totally but but only because
01:28:22
i've started my new swimming regimen i was um i did it all this week every morning i got up in
01:28:29
the morning and swam and thank you i'm so happy for you thank you so much i know it felt really
01:28:34
good i don't know i finally put it together when we were um when we were away on our on the last
01:28:41
tour weekend i was like i need i need to do something because this like the the foot thing
01:28:47
is really fucked up right and i just don't feel good i don't like the way i look so i want to feel
01:28:52
better and then i was like i texted my dog sitter because she stays with my dogs at the house and i
01:28:57
I was like, do me a favor. Would you just flip on that pool heater for me? Because I was like, why spend the money on the thing that's actually going to be like help you and be, you know, right outside your door.
01:29:10
And so the first morning it was pretty cold. When I got in it today, it was like cozy warm.
01:29:19
How many laps? Because I have a pool I can use too. How many? I mean. I just put on my, I put on the stopwatch and I just let it go to a half an hour.
01:29:27
And you just go back and forth? Back and forth. And I try to do, I stop and tread water and try to do things with my legs to stretch out the muscle on the back of my leg.
01:29:36
Because that's the reason that the plantar fasciitis is so bad. So I just am trying to do a lot of leg work and treading water.
01:29:47
But then I just do, I start off with like at least 10 laps of kind of dog paddling where I keep my head above.
01:29:54
That all that matters is you moving Yes exactly And swimming is full body and you can kind of do more Like I should say I can do way more than normal because it doesn feel so like and you
01:30:05
not like, I'm sweating. You don't, you can't tell. What I love about swimming too, is that you can't
01:30:09
listen to anything. So it's kind of the Zen in your head. Yes. Moment. It clears you out really
01:30:16
good. And for me, like it, the, it is such a good stress reliever because I've just been feeling,
01:30:24
as you well know, so stressed out lately and have for so long, it's been like this
01:30:28
cumulative, like two year stress. That's been so hard for both of us. Um, at times,
01:30:34
what are you talking about? And gratitude. But I mean, like the stress is tough and I just,
01:30:43
if I just keep eating fucking pizza about it, it'll only go one way. And so, yeah. So it's just
01:30:50
like I, um, I've been doing that every morning. And then I also, at one point I ordered a robe,
01:30:55
um, when I was getting some clothes for New York, I was like, Oh, I'm also going to get a robe.
01:31:00
That's like a towel. So I can just get out of the pool and have a big thirsty robe on.
01:31:05
Look at you. So that's my new, I still want to do yoga, but my plan is to lose the initial weight
01:31:13
and then get into like getting really flexible. Whatever works for you. Yeah. Um, I love that.
01:31:18
me too it's fun i want to say because this is we're recording a saturday night and so by thursday
01:31:24
a lot of shit might have gone down in uh the supreme court in the world yeah and so we don't
01:31:30
want to seem like we're ignoring it i just want to let everyone know that's a very good point it's
01:31:33
been a really fucking shitty week and listen we support dr ford 100 and if anyone's fucking
01:31:39
surprised by that you haven't listened to this podcast there's also watching that we we spent
01:31:45
the entire day at work watching that testimony. It speaks for itself. Yeah. I mean, that's the thing.
01:31:50
This isn't political for us. This is believing a woman's fucking truth. And also seeing a man's behavior
01:31:57
and knowing that that is indicative of something, especially like as we have all listened
01:32:01
to one million of these stories and watched one million true crime shows, a person with that level of indignant,
01:32:08
like rage that's right there. And you're talking about Kavanaugh's rage. Kavanaugh's rage because from the beginning, the way he was talking about how hard it's been for him and his family, it was so, so self obsessed.
01:32:22
Yeah. So fucking self serving. He never apologized to his family. He didn't say, right.
01:32:27
He was like, you're doing it to my family. It's like, what, what about what you did?
01:32:31
You're, you stepped into this limelight. You're trying to get this. You're, you're here for this job.
01:32:37
You're trying to get this fucking job. And then this is your past. So you have an apology to make.
01:32:43
Right. We've all, every woman I know, including us, we've been through some shit like this.
01:32:48
Yes. Similar to what Dr. Ford is talking about. And we know when we fucking see in a woman's eye and her voice and her story
01:32:55
that she's being honest because it's vulnerable and terrifying, but it's important to tell the story.
01:33:02
So, yeah, I, I would just like to say this too, because there was, there's been a couple of good threats on Twitter about this.
01:33:09
the thing that people keep missing that I think there's these people that keep arguing like it's
01:33:13
the calendars from 30 years ago it doesn't matter it doesn't matter what was in his yearbook it
01:33:17
doesn't matter it doesn't matter it technically perhaps but what we're trying to talk about is
01:33:22
the difference between a good man and a bad man we're trying to delineate and just decide is this
01:33:28
person a supreme court justice who can be neutral who can make decisions who won't bring in biases
01:33:35
who won't bring in secret hatreds, issues. This man has serious fucking issues with women.
01:33:42
And you know that because of his find them, finger them, fuck them and forget them.
01:33:47
All the shit that was in that yearbook is all there. It's all coded wording for different ways to be shitty to women.
01:33:55
I think of the good men, you know, did they ever talk like that when they were in fucking high school?
01:33:58
No, no, no. Steven never put four F's in his fucking. I mean, and also how lame.
01:34:04
There's so many great men that when girls are drunk at a party, they take them home and put them to bed.
01:34:09
And as one of these threads that I was reading on Twitter, put some Gatorade by next to their bed and say, good night, I'll see you tomorrow.
01:34:16
That's right. It happens. It's this is not the standard that we have to accept in fucking men at all.
01:34:23
And by accepting this person into the highest fucking lifetime, you know, order position, yeah, is telling other women that that it does not fucking matter what happens to them.
01:34:36
And it does not matter if this if you get victimized, it doesn't matter if you in your life were ever victimized.
01:34:45
It doesn't matter. And the only thing that matters is what what happens to these men.
01:34:48
Yeah, it just so we are not skipping over this important thing. we're just behind a couple days.
01:34:54
Yeah. I mean, and we're still angry from last week. It was really fucking depressing or maybe not.
01:34:58
You know what my fucking array is. My friend, Jocelyn Hughes, who's this lovely gal texting me and a couple of girls and said that day,
01:35:05
I would have texted you, but it was during the day at work and it was going to get drinks during the
01:35:09
day. I can't handle this anymore. Does anyone want to get drinks? Nice. So I sat around some really great gals and we talked instead of watching for
01:35:17
a while and it was really soothing and it's nice to be, you know, as we always say, like, we're each other's allies. We are not, we are not each other's
01:35:28
competitors. Yeah. And so being surrounded by a bunch of rad chicks who I know to differing
01:35:35
degrees have all been through something like this in their lives was really great. And then I went
01:35:40
back at the bowl and it was really fucking great. Saw Beck at the Hollywood Bowl. Nice. Yeah.
01:35:46
Yeah, that's also a good point is do things. If you're experiencing this, feeling triggered by it,
01:35:54
feeling stressed by it, feeling upset, reach out, get around people that understand what you're talking about,
01:36:00
Don't be around people that will argue with you. Don't engage or spend time with people that go,
01:36:05
it doesn't matter and this is a liberal, whatever. Don't put yourself through it.
01:36:10
Take care of yourself. Be around people who understand you. And you don't have to accept anyone else's definition of what's quote-unquote important or not.
01:36:18
Because with those people, it's never important that a woman was raped. It's never important that this happens all the time and that that's the culture we live in.
01:36:26
It's never important. They do not care. so and they'll never believe women they'll never
01:36:31
it doesn't matter it's just a certain mindset and they they're not important and there are plenty of people
01:36:37
you can find that get it that was a big episode for one that we're just trying to sneak in
01:36:42
before we leave for tour I know and now we have to record two mini-sodes let's do it
01:36:47
and then sign 200 posters for the live shows we're fucking doing it this I'm gonna open a can of wine
01:36:52
thank you so much thank you so much for supporting us we are so lucky to be here with you guys.
01:36:59
And we're very excited to be traveling this weekend. We are in New York right now,
01:37:06
really, technically, when this drops. At the Beacon tonight, the night it drops.
01:37:11
This very night. Yes. So, what's up, New York? New York, Brooklyn, and fucking Medford.
01:37:17
And Medford, Massachusetts. Can't wait to see you all. Thanks so much for listening.
01:37:21
Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, you want a cookie? Good boy. Cookie?
01:37:30
He nailed it. Yeah, you did good. Why is it always chaos when we link up? Cause nobody plans anything, bro.
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