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00:01:24
Goodbye. My favorite world That's so many years to be in podcasting years. That's what?
00:02:01
Three years. That's like 104 years. But it feels like 17 minutes. It does. This thing has been like a fucking, it's like stepping onto an elevator and then being like,
00:02:12
oh my God, the cable broke. Yeah, but it's flying upward into success land. Into success ceiling.
00:02:18
And not downward until you get crushed, though. No, but our stomachs are still in our throats.
00:02:25
That's right. The exact same feeling of panic and fear. That's right. Yeah. We're still waiting for it to now go downwards.
00:02:32
Kill us even harder than it would have had we not traveled up or whatever. I don't know what's happening.
00:02:37
I may have chosen the most negative metaphor possible for the best thing that's ever happened to me.
00:02:43
Which explains everything. That's my style. It explains everything about us and about this podcast called My Favorite Murder.
00:02:51
Did you know that? That's Karen Kilgara. And that's Georgia Hartstark. Fresh from 2018.
00:02:57
Fuck that year. The year is gone. Goodbye. Goodbye. It's a fresh brand new year.
00:03:05
Do you make resolutions? Yes, I did. But it's also one because I realized we talk about so much stuff on this podcast and we are so constantly like vomiting personal shit on this podcast.
00:03:18
Like when I went to make resolutions, I'm like, no, this is just shit I've been talking about for a long time that I've been declaring.
00:03:25
You know what you've been promising yourself because you say it weekly. Yes. Okay.
00:03:30
But I really think that I want to truly start for real. No, but this time is for real.
00:03:35
2019 is a brand new year. It has a nice ring to it. But I honestly want to start saying yes to things even when I want to say no.
00:03:44
Okay. Maybe the other times were like, you know, just trial periods and you've kind of practiced
00:03:49
and give it a little shot. And now it's like, vroom. Well, for that specific one, it's very easy to say you want to do that.
00:03:57
But when things come up, there's such a resounding no that it's like, well, this isn't this is purely logic.
00:04:03
It's not my opinion. I simply cannot do this thing. Like, what do you mean? Anything.
00:04:08
What if the correct answer is no? Right. What if you shouldn't be doing it? Well, my problem is I always think the correct answer is no.
00:04:15
OK, that's my go to. Maybe you're wrong 50 percent of the time. I think I've proven here that I'm wrong about 78% of the time.
00:04:25
But it's that weird habit of what I do is pre-write what's going to happen. And based on what I make up, I don't like those results.
00:04:33
Therefore, I'm going to stay home, be not try to do something, whatever. So I just think basically the saying yes, forcing myself into discomfort, therefore progress being made is my new plan.
00:04:46
Okay. For 2019. Okay. How about yourself? I don't really usually make resolutions, but I am reading Daring Greatly again for the hundredth time.
00:04:55
And so I would like to... Daring Greatly by Brene Brown, a book recommendation we've made many times on the show.
00:05:03
To be more aware and appreciative in the moment. Because I think that we do this thing, and she talks about it, where anything that's happy and joyous, as we just said, you add on the...
00:05:16
And this is what's going to go wrong with it. Yes. So instead, it's like, well, what if we were just like took a minute and we're like to have, you know, to appreciate it and have gratitude and having anxiety.
00:05:26
We're about to start our new tour. Traveling is really hard for me and scary. So to actually take a moment and enjoy it and like, you know, add it up.
00:05:37
That's a great plan. Also, because I think it's not just traveling. the whole thing is we've been doing things that are incredibly daunting pretending that we do them
00:05:47
all the time just so just so we can do them and get them done like in the I remember the very
00:05:54
beginning and you were just like I do not like traveling and like there was some real like we have to do this and we can do this And that went away very quickly because you just did it So you didn you didn
00:06:07
stay home and go, No, I don't do that. You just said I don't want to. Yeah. And then kind of like
00:06:12
find a way to make it make it happen. Yeah, I can't say no to shit like that. No, you can't
00:06:16
girl. I'm making the international money sign with my fingers. I didn't know that was just for me.
00:06:20
I kind of was doing just for you. And then I thought, it's going to read. You're going to hear that greed in my fingers as I do that.
00:06:30
But yeah, so there's ways to prepare oneself so that traveling, your anxiety that you know is going to come won't hit you in the face.
00:06:38
And you'll be shocked by it every fucking time, like preparing my stories ahead of time, planning on doing certain things in every city.
00:06:45
So I'm trying to do that right now. It definitely makes it easier, but I know, and I think that's probably the same reason you do it, is when you have a thing that you have to get done that distracts you.
00:06:58
Oh, right. That's the problem. Then flying is no longer the problem. Fear of imminent death is no longer the problem.
00:07:05
Something bad happening when you leave is no longer the problem. Suddenly the problem is you haven't gotten your homework done.
00:07:10
Right. And you can focus on that entirely and not worry about the things that normally worry you.
00:07:15
So that's bad. No, I'm saying that. Oh, that's good. were probably doing that for that reason. Okay. Because it feels better to worry about homework
00:07:22
than it does that Elvis is going to die while I'm gone. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. That makes sense.
00:07:26
Yeah. I'm not afraid of like being on a plane at all anymore. No, we've done it so much. Yeah.
00:07:32
I, I, yeah. Cause I used to have a lot of like, it wasn't even fear of flying, but just that thing
00:07:38
of the effort, like this isn't going to be worth the pain or something, which is insane. I'm not,
00:07:47
82. I don't know. It's like I'm just doing an impression on my grandmother all the time. I
00:07:52
don't know why. It's so irritating. But I did tell you this already, and you had the funniest
00:07:58
reaction. But I think it's a pretty good story that's a little bit symbolic of just the experience
00:08:03
that we've been having. Again, no complaints. Last, I think it was August, but I can't remember
00:08:11
exactly the month. I sprained my ankle pretty bad. And I'm sure I talked about in the show,
00:08:18
I was walking George, I was with my friend on, I was pointing something out over my shoulder,
00:08:23
like it was a commercial, rolled my ankle off the side of the sidewalk. And then basically
00:08:28
looked at Don and said, you have to go get George. And I have to make it into the house before this
00:08:33
thing blows up because I won't be able to walk on it. So I like, quickly limped back to my house,
00:08:37
put my foot up and then just had a terrible sprain for weeks and weeks. But of course, our fall tour was coming up.
00:08:45
And I knew I wouldn't be able, all I could think of was you can't walk out on that stage with a weird limp.
00:08:51
Like that moment where we go out on stage at the live show is such a big moment for us.
00:08:56
And it's so exciting. And you don't want to be all like... You don't want crutch under your armpit, hobbling out.
00:09:01
Tennis ball at the bottom. Yeah. It's like, ew, what? Or I carry you on my back.
00:09:05
and then die. You could look cute. We're like, we're best friends and I'm carrying you on my back.
00:09:11
And it's really like carrying. But how? How aerodynamically? How could you do it?
00:09:15
So basically, I put my foot up. I was just like, this can't, I don't have time for this right now.
00:09:22
And then we went on tour and it was fine. You fucking, you, I have to say, you hobbled without a complaint
00:09:28
through so many airports where I could tell you were in pain. Yes. And I could tell you were using that away suitcase
00:09:35
for fucking keeping you up. It was my secret walker. I will say this. Here's a free commercial for away suitcases.
00:09:41
They're not just wonderfully convenient suitcases that make it easy for you to overpack.
00:09:47
They also double as a walker, a very hip modern walker. They got that side roll thing.
00:09:52
That's so fucking amazing. Yes. And if you get that away suitcase on the side of your spring,
00:09:57
you're golden. Okay, so when I went home for Christmas, on the first day back, I was going to pick Nora up from grammar school,
00:10:04
or school she's in grammar school it was at the grammar school where the same one i went to so i'm
00:10:11
walking up the back entrance and for some reason and i kind of want to sue the city over this but
00:10:17
there are they do this thing on some of the streets in petaluma where the as you go into
00:10:23
the ditch area like there's the asphalt of the road and then as it goes kind of toward the sidewalk
00:10:28
cement, it turns into cobblestone. Almost like this is what it used to be like, which is so
00:10:35
irritating. It's charming to look at. Yeah. Hazardous. Hazardous when you have to look at
00:10:39
your phone 24 hours a day. Another issue that I don't even have time to address. 2019. We'll deal
00:10:45
with it. 2021. We'll get there. So when the grid goes down, it's going to take care of itself.
00:10:51
That's right. And take it off the to-do list. That's right. So as I'm walking up, looking at
00:10:56
my phone there is a mini cobblestone pothole foot size pothole and i wrench my ankle same ankle
00:11:03
roll it again freeze don't fall down this time last time i fell all the way down which is very
00:11:09
oh shit oh shit oh shit yes because i it made the same crack it was equally horrible and i froze
00:11:16
like is this going to be the worst and then nothing the wave of pain didn't come and the
00:11:22
this didn't come and so i'm like okay so i kind of like very casually uh as i've taught myself to do
00:11:29
hobbled up this fucking flight of 10 stairs i realized nora's not on the playground she's on
00:11:34
the upper sidewalk waiting for me on the other sidewalk so i have to walk up there but i'm like
00:11:40
waving her down without trying to try not to yell she meets me we go and i say we were supposed to go
00:11:46
Christmas shopping together. And I said, I'm going to, I'm going to, you know, keep a check on it,
00:11:52
but I might not be able to go to Target today. She was like okay And then we by the time we get to you know across town it doesn still doesn hurt that bad So I said I going to grab a cart and I have my walker and let get this Christmas shopping done
00:12:08
So that afternoon when my sister comes home and she, like, we put it up and she's putting ice on it.
00:12:15
And she's like, it's so bumpy. And then she goes, well, you just get a fucking x-ray.
00:12:19
Because once I told her I didn't get an x-ray the first time, she lost her mind.
00:12:22
Yeah. So she makes me go to Petaluma Valley Hospital. And it was like eight o'clock at night. And I get an x ray. I broke it the first time. Yeah. So it was a broken ankle that I was walking on for several months until you're like, well, I'm going to ignore this. I don't. It's been a year at least. It's not several months. That was like a year ago. Was that a year ago? I think so. Yeah, because I guess it wasn't at the beginning of this fall. No. God, that's weird. I am. I can't keep talking.
00:12:52
of time at all. Well, anyway, when I texted Georgia to tell her, she was like, what the fuck?
00:12:59
And I said, if I didn't have time to feel it, and so I just didn't. And she wrote back,
00:13:05
I want to laugh, but I also want to cry. Because I had just gone to the fucking podiatrist, and my toe has been fucked up for like a year.
00:13:16
And this finally, this doctor took me seriously and did an x-ray. And my toe, it's not an ingrown
00:13:21
toenail i fucking it's either a broken bone on my toe or a tumor so i do and when i was hobbling
00:13:28
last tour for the airport with you and like changing my shoes all the time yeah oh my god
00:13:34
what are you gonna do right we didn't there was it was not in the in game plan no so we couldn't
00:13:40
do it no so we didn't do it but now that tour the new tour is about to start now let's deal with it
00:13:46
Now let's both get surgery. Let's get some surgeries. Let's have a surgery tour.
00:13:52
Let's have a surgery. Who can get the most surgeries? Oh, my God. Without anyone noticing that you got surgery.
00:13:57
Yeah, you can't. I mean, you could do it on your face, but you have to get very high end.
00:14:01
So subtle. The highest of end. That's right. Very high end. Speaking of our tour, it starts on, I'm excited.
00:14:08
It starts on the 10th in San Diego. I'm not that excited. Great. Most of the shows are sold out.
00:14:15
But listen, Honolulu. Honolulu? Hawaii? They're doing Hawaii time on this show. Yeah.
00:14:22
They're being as chill as Hawaiians are. It's February 8th, I believe. And we're going to need some seat warmers in there.
00:14:32
Yeah. Some seat fillers. Go there. Or if you maybe live in a cold climate. Yeah.
00:14:36
And you're independently wealthy and you want to go to Honolulu for our show. Yeah.
00:14:40
Come on over. Take a weekend. Pretend it's for Valentine's Day. I don't know. Sure.
00:14:45
Rent a jet? Yeah, yeah. Pick us up on the way. Come on. And we'll see you there.
00:14:50
And let's party Hawaiian style. That's right. Well, another exciting thing about it being January of 2019 is very soon a whole new wave
00:15:01
of podcasts are going to roll out on the Exactly Right Podcast Network, which we're very, there's
00:15:07
some of them that we cannot wait to tell you about. We've been teasing it for a long time.
00:15:12
It's taken a while, but we're finally going to roll them out. and you're going to be very happy.
00:15:17
It's been annoying not being able to tell you guys this fucking slate of podcasts that we've been,
00:15:23
I wouldn't say working on, because we've done nothing. I mean, we've done a lot of work to make them alive,
00:15:30
but we're not the podcasters of them. And so, you know what I mean. But still, we have all that.
00:15:36
We have that hometown pride. That's right. And we just think you're going to be excited.
00:15:40
Lots of these podcasts were specifically either chosen or developed with the audience that listens to this podcast in mind.
00:15:49
So it's very exciting to us, and we think you're going to be really excited. So keep whatever.
00:15:54
We'll tell you all about it. Follow on, exactly right, network something on Instagram.
00:15:59
Yeah, and Twitter. It's all there. Twitter. Lots of, and then, of course, in the meanwhile,
00:16:04
please listen to This Podcast Will Kill You, The Percast, The Fall Line, and, of course, there's going to be a brand-new episode of Do You Need a Ride,
00:16:11
me and Stephen and Chris Fairbanks just recorded it with the great Dave Holmes. Dave Holmes.
00:16:17
Love him. Comes out Monday. Oh, yeah. We did it on New Year's Eve day. Nice. Yeah, yeah.
00:16:21
Dave Holmes is so sweet. He's the greatest. I tried listening to this podcast, We'll Kill You.
00:16:26
It was about diphtheria, you know, while I'm falling asleep at night. It was a bad idea.
00:16:33
Did you know you get tumors in your throat from it? No. It was one of those ones where I'm like, well, I can't listen to this while I'm falling asleep
00:16:40
because I don't want to miss anything. but also I'm terrified and you're touching your throat.
00:16:43
Are you okay? Who knows? I can't. I don't know. Clearly I'm not in touch with my body.
00:16:52
Just check in to see if there's anything. But wait, diphtheria. Does it, do people still get it?
00:16:57
I don't know. You have to listen to this podcast. We'll kill you. Why don't I listen to this podcast?
00:17:01
We'll kill you. I'm on my way home. Yeah. Anything else? I don't think so. Not that I, well,
00:17:09
I guess we'll just bring it up as we think of it. Yeah. Who the fuck goes first?
00:17:15
Steven. The last live show, because we did the MFM Origins last week. Yeah, that's right.
00:17:20
If you want to listen, if you haven't listened to last week's episode, Origins, it's Steven
00:17:24
fucking made a beautiful episode. Steven. Editing so many, like combing through old episodes to find the origins of a bunch of
00:17:32
our stupid quotes. Yes. And he put them all together, did a great job. I mean, it took a long time mostly because I just was listening back.
00:17:38
I'm like, oh, wait, I'm supposed to be working. Nice one. Yeah. It was like a Your Christmas Gift to Us where we didn't have to record an episode, another
00:17:46
episode at the end of December. It was wonderful. It was really fun. Thank you. Yeah.
00:17:50
It was really fun. Great job. Thank you. So before Origins. Oh it was Glasgow and you did the Bible John Yes Yeah First Then you would go first Oh okay Okay Okay Or it 2019 Yeah Whatever
00:18:05
Do you start a new system? Like coin flipping? Rochambeau. Okay. I'm a big fan of Rochambeau.
00:18:11
Are you really? Would you say you're good at it? I think I'm good at it, which is so stupid.
00:18:15
I know that's ridiculous. And I was about to say it and then you asked it and I was like,
00:18:18
don't say it. I think I'm good at Rochambeau. I could see it in your eyes. You were like,
00:18:24
should we do this my eyes got bright you're like there what if i'm really good i'm gonna lose
00:18:28
immediately so it's one two three hit yeah right one two three hit shit you just won i won it
00:18:34
so now georgia doesn't get to believe she's good at rochambeau anymore i don't but wait does that
00:18:39
mean you go first or i go first or you get a pick we didn't decide oh yeah we didn't event
00:18:43
what does winning mean what do you want um i you know i assume winning means you go second but
00:18:50
that's because i'm from the world of stand-up comedy where the headliner is last got it but that
00:18:55
doesn't apply to us no that's fine and it's not the same um do you have an end do you have an
00:19:01
ender a good end i'm staring at steven like he's gonna help me i mean i feel like it's it's you
00:19:05
get to pick because it means either you get to go first or you get to pick you know yeah like it's
00:19:10
you get to pick which one you want to do i like going first sometimes okay but it depends on if
00:19:16
Do you have a story that you think is going to be a good ender? I don't. I have to say, we haven't done this in so long in this way that I kind of feel, I absolutely don't know what day it is.
00:19:29
I'll say this right now. I mean, obviously, it's Wednesday because that's when we record.
00:19:31
But conceptually, I've been asking what day it is for like two weeks. No, I thought it was Tuesday for three days.
00:19:38
I'm in so in weird, like, vacation mode because we haven't had one in so long that we just literally and legitimately took two weeks off.
00:19:49
Yeah. And did nothing and, like, didn't do anything. It was so weird. It was, yeah, suddenly I could feel my bones.
00:19:56
Yeah. It was not pleasant. Oh, because they're broken. Right. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
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00:20:45
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00:22:10
Goodbye. Okay, then you know what? I'll go first if it's my pick. Okay. And just let's dive right back in.
00:22:17
Okay. Because also, I really like this story, but I don't know if it's an ender.
00:22:21
I don't know what it is. I got it. But I will tell you this. The reason that I picked it is because it's in my little file on my computer that's murders that I haven't done yet.
00:22:32
Yeah. And it's one of the only ones that had any information on the page whatsoever because I've run out of those completely.
00:22:38
Right. You're like, great. It started for me. Yeah. I barely had like a backlog to begin with.
00:22:43
Yeah. And then. Yeah. So this was one of my only ones. And then the whole reason I loved it is because there was this quote that I had pulled from another story and was like, remember to do this one and remember to use this quote.
00:22:54
You know, I lost that quote. Do you ever do that in the when you're cutting and pasting from one document to another?
00:23:01
If you cut from one document and then you delete something else before you paste.
00:23:06
No, it's gone. Yeah. I didn't know. Like if you basically take the place of the cut and paste.
00:23:11
Yeah. On one. Got it. Am I wrong about this, Stephen? I don't, I mean, it might be whatever you're like, I don't fucking know.
00:23:19
I think, yeah, if it's highlighted, definitely. If it's highlighted, you copy it and then you delete it.
00:23:24
It won't, whatever. It doesn't, yeah. I just wanted to see if we could get super boring before I started just to like have a nice basement.
00:23:34
Right. It can only go up from here. I'm just saying, I wish, I would say this was an ender if I had this quote.
00:23:42
that would have been like the shiny tiara on top of this princess story well it doesn't matter now
00:23:49
okay and i don't i truly don't have it and now i can't find it i couldn't find it which is very odd
00:23:55
then it's like where did i get it ever even exist yeah what the was it just a quote that you
00:24:00
What wished someone would say. Or is there a rare chance that I actually read a physical book and then copied the quote out of a book?
00:24:07
That's impossible. No. I don't do research that. You can't even read. I can barely touch books because of my ankle.
00:24:14
Okay. So I'm going to do for you right now and Stephen in 2019, The Murder of Thelma Todd.
00:24:23
Okay. Hollywood actress of the 20s and 30s. You know her from the many Marx Brothers films that she appeared in, if at all.
00:24:33
They called her the ice cream blonde. And she, in less than 10 years, made over 120 movies and short comedic shorts.
00:24:45
Comedic shorts. All with a broken ankle. So I got the majority of the information about this murder from the website Deranged LA Crimes.
00:24:57
And this is the same website where it's a website written by someone named Joan Renner.
00:25:04
And that's where I got the whole story for our LA live show two live shows ago when I did the story of Aggie Underwood, who was the first City Desk editor.
00:25:13
And this basically very famous female true crime reporter in LA in the 40s when no one else, no other women were doing it.
00:25:20
Yeah. And she did it. And she is said to be the one who coined the Black Dahlia nickname.
00:25:26
Right. She was and supposedly the first on the scene reporter wise. Crazy. So Joan Renner has a website deranged L.A. crimes.
00:25:36
But there's a whole part that's about Aggie Underwood. And she's like an expert in Aggie Underwood.
00:25:40
So a lot of the information is from there. And also from I got it from there. So apparently Lonnie Anderson starred in a 1991 film called White Hot, the mysterious death of Thelma Todd.
00:25:52
and um when that i think it's a made for tv movie but everyone only ever called it movie
00:26:00
right on the internet so i'm not sure and it costs like 50 on amazon like it's hard to get
00:26:07
yeah i thought i was gonna watch it really fast and have a fun like then londie anderson said this
00:26:12
and it's like you can't get it you have to be like a devotee but in 1991 uh um a writer named frank
00:26:19
a Cinello wrote an article in the Chicago Tribune that was basically, it was all about
00:26:26
Thelma Todd's mysterious death because this Lonnie Anderson made for TV movie was about
00:26:31
to come out. So he basically was like, it's still a mystery, but there are some theories.
00:26:35
And he kind of like reignited the whole idea of it. So let's do this. Great. Thelma Todd was born July 29th, 1906 in Lawrence, Massachusetts to an abusive, distant, alcoholic,
00:26:49
That's right. An Irish father named John Todd, who is an upholsterer and a corrupt local politician.
00:26:57
I don't know if he really was both of those things, but he was said to be one thing and then the other thing and different websites.
00:26:57
Great job. So I like to think he started as a lowly upholsterer. Right. And he rose up to being a corrupt politician.
00:27:11
But you know, like even back then, it was probably such a small town. I was like, great, you're mayor.
00:27:15
Yeah. You know what I mean? Like it wasn't like a big fucking deal. Like it was a big politico fucking.
00:27:19
That's right. They're like, you recovered our couch so beautifully. You're the mayor.
00:27:23
Exactly. Thank you. Remember that time we had a whole conversation about how upholsterers are always creeps?
00:27:29
Yeah. I think it was because Angelo Buono, who was one of the hillside stranglers, he was an upholsterer.
00:27:39
Because they're just huffing fumes, glue, fabric glue. And they got a lot of like hooky, a lot of instruments that are hook shaped.
00:27:45
Yes. And yes. Anything else? No. Go ahead. What? There was nothing. Okay. So Thelma Todd graduates high school.
00:27:56
She actually enrolls in college. She wants to be a teacher. So she enrolls at a school called the Lowell Normal School.
00:28:03
Oh. Where the mascot is? A normal person. Just the most normal person. Just someone as normal.
00:28:10
This guy, he's like a beige person. Yeah. He's got his buttons all the way to the top.
00:28:15
Done. He's just normal. He likes pot roast. Yeah. He likes potatoes. Go normal people.
00:28:20
Missionary sex. And that's it. That's all he's into. Okay. So that is now the University of Massachusetts at Lowell.
00:28:29
But at the time it was called the Lowell Normal School for all those people in Massachusetts.
00:28:35
Am I pronouncing Lowell wrong? No, it sounds right. It's not a Worcester situation, is it?
00:28:39
I don't think so. Okay. Why am I asking you? Why am I being so confident in my answer?
00:28:48
That's a good question. No, there was a school in San Francisco named called Lowell.
00:28:53
Right. That's why I'm pronouncing it that way. I'm basing it on that. So maybe in Massachusetts, they call it something else.
00:28:57
But listen, we're going with the San Francisco pronunciation. Got to do it. NorCal, West Coast.
00:29:02
The end. Okay. So unfortunately, Thelma wants to be a teacher because her name's Thelma.
00:29:09
So yes, that's a natural. But her mother, Alice, is real pushy. And it's like, you need to enter beauty contests.
00:29:15
well it turns out her mother was right because in 1925 Thelma wins the title of Miss Massachusetts
00:29:22
and she actually goes on to compete in the Miss America pageant that year or later on she doesn't win
00:29:29
but she does catch the eye of Hollywood talent scouts and she ends up getting contracted Paramount
00:29:34
so now she's in the mid-20s mid to late 20s Hollywood studio system which I'm sure was good but
00:29:45
from what I understand pre-code Hollywood there's a lot of amphetamines there was a lot of drinking
00:29:51
and there's a lot of just orgies everywhere Orgy type things there casting couch stuff Yeah Actors are cattle This is where all this Okay never mind I take back my positive note No we can be positive about it
00:30:06
No, I hate it. No, come on. Don't let your love of acting be killed by the early studio system.
00:30:12
I'm just saying there's a reason that things are. There's a reason we ended up in the fucking Me Too situation that we're in right now.
00:30:21
And it's because this has been a long road of overt oppression. Oh, right. Thelma Todd starts out in silent films, but because of her beautiful speaking voice.
00:30:31
And I say beautiful, but it just was like she had an okay voice. Yeah, she could speak like a normal human.
00:30:37
She didn't have the... Like a normal human, like the person from her. That guy. She could speak just like him.
00:30:43
She was thinking of the school mascot. All those football games where the beige guy cheered.
00:30:48
Just came out and was like, great. I really hope you guys win. look, I'm really supportive of this team.
00:30:53
Yeah, and she was like, hey, I'm a silent movie star. Look at me. I'm supportive of talking.
00:30:58
God, this is normal. Yeah. I love it. I love her. She makes the transition to talkies,
00:31:03
and in less than 10 years, as I said, she appears in over 120 movies and comedic shorts.
00:31:09
Now, comedic shorts were like this thing, and if you ever go to black and white,
00:31:15
remember the old silent movie theater back in the day? there used to be comedic shorts
00:31:21
like Buster Keaton and Laurel and Hardy and all those guys they would put out these little short movies
00:31:25
that were like you know it wasn't an hour it was like 12 minutes long or whatever
00:31:29
she was in a ton of those and in 1931 producer Hal Roach teams her up he gets this idea that he wants to have
00:31:37
like a female Laurel and Hardy he thinks that would be great and then all the bros in the 30s were like
00:31:43
you're ruining my childhood women aren't funny and this is again say women aren't funny say hey and then they all do like a four-part harmony
00:31:55
sweet caroline so how roach teams thalma todd up with a very famous actress zazu pitts who is
00:32:04
very actually you look a lot like her she has these big brown eyes she's very kind of dramatic
00:32:09
looking and she looks like um she was an amazing silent film actress because she was very expressive
00:32:15
um so the two of them it's like the blonde and i the picture i saw of zazu pit she was a brunette
00:32:22
could have changed okay in the 20 in the like later in her career but they're they do a bunch
00:32:27
of shorts you know those famous comedy shorts they start in like hot dogs it's basically a
00:32:34
like original youtube where it's like we just need to make funny content fall down a couple times
00:32:38
break your necklace you know and then drive a car it'll be hilarious you're women um
00:32:45
One of their shorts was called Let's Do Something. Great. I love it. Let's go with it.
00:32:50
Let's do something. Publish it on YouTube now. So good. Okay, so then when Zazu Pitts leaves Hal Roach's production company over a contract dispute,
00:33:02
Thelma Todd is then paired up with an actress named Patsy Kelly, and they make a ton more.
00:33:06
Now, while she is under Hal Roach's tutelage, I've never said that word before, he creates something called this you might enjoy it's called the potato clause um he just he
00:33:18
believed that Thelma had a weight problem okay so he um stipulated that he put in her contract
00:33:25
the potato clause if she gained more than five pounds she'd be fired jesus so of course Thelma's
00:33:31
mother was there to the rescue giving her diet pills okay uh which she of course became addicted
00:33:38
to and this is and she also was a huge drinker and this is now when this turns into the karen
00:33:43
kogaroff story although i has never missed massachusetts i could if i try runner up
00:33:52
i couldn't get that baton to light on fire okay she uh plays opposite buster keaton
00:34:01
but eventually what she gets famous for is being the blonde in all the marx brothers movies that
00:34:08
all the brothers are into. So including Horse Feathers and Monkey Business, some of their most
00:34:12
famous movies. If you haven't watched a Marx Brothers movie, you absolutely should. They're
00:34:17
super hilarious. They genuinely are great comedy. And Chico Marx is truly one of my favorite
00:34:23
performers. He plays the piano, but then he does jokes while he's playing the piano. He does piano
00:34:29
playing jokes. Like you have to see it, but it's like one of my favorite things. He's amazing. So
00:34:35
in 1931 she stars opposite Chester Morris your favorite actor and in a pre-code crime drama
00:34:41
called Corsair and the director of that movie was a man named Roland West who then Thelma began to
00:34:48
have an on again off again affair with he was a married man um in 1932 she marries a self-proclaimed
00:34:56
producer and uh you gotta hate a self-proclaimed producer I mean here's the thing about Hollywood
00:35:03
But it was founded by people in the mafia and creeps. It just was. They were self-proclaimed everything.
00:35:13
They were just proclaiming all over town. I know art. I know how to make a movie.
00:35:19
Proclaim until you make it is what they used to say. That was the old saying. That was the poster that Chico Marx had above his bed.
00:35:28
So these guys, they ran the movie business like it was any other business, like it was running liquor or prostitution or anything.
00:35:34
It was kind of the same thing where if you were in a movie, you could shut up and you'd take your money and you would get as much as they
00:35:41
gave you the end. And here, take these pills, you know, come to the party and potato claws always hanging over your head.
00:35:49
The potato claws still exists today. It's unspoken. We have it at my favorite murder,
00:35:54
but it that if you don gain five pounds you fired That um I actually inducted the potato clause uh late 2016 And it was I going to gain five pounds every day until I break both of my ankles
00:36:10
Okay. So, uh. We weigh Steven every time he comes over here. All right. I'm done.
00:36:16
Steven is a wreck. Steven, get on a scale. Uh, 1932, Thelma marries this, uh, man.
00:36:22
And his name's Pat, I think it's DiCicco, but it's spelled D-I-C-I-C-C-O. DiCicco.
00:36:31
Or DiCio? No, it's not that. It's DiCicco. DiCicco. Cicco was named after him. DiCicco and Desist.
00:36:46
So he had mob ties. They had a very bad marriage. They both drank a ton. They would get into huge drunken brawls, one of which resulted in a broken nose for Pat.
00:37:00
And another ended in an emergency appendectomy for Thelma. Holy shit. So they threw down.
00:37:06
Oh, my God. Married for two years. In 1934, they get divorced. And right after that, Thelma stops drinking.
00:37:12
She's like, I'm already on diet pills. Yeah, yeah. Believe me when I say it's actually the best combination in the world.
00:37:20
because when you're on diet pills, you can drink like nine beers and not feel anything.
00:37:25
That's when it just starts cutting the edge off the diet pills. And I bet you in the 30s,
00:37:31
diet pills were way more intense. They were insane. What were they made of? Like, who the fuck?
00:37:35
Asbestos and paint chips. Fucking gasoline. Ethel gasoline. Ethanol. Ethanol. Paint chips.
00:37:41
And asbestos. And you chewed it on up and you liked it. And you said, pretty, pretty, pretty.
00:37:47
And you lost all the pounds. so in 1934 she decides she's going to open her own basically restaurant club and it's called
00:37:57
Thelma Todd's Sidewalk Cafe and it's in that building I know I drive by all the time yeah
00:38:02
all the time I'm never on PCH but every time I drive by it I think that's Thelma Todd's place
00:38:07
yes it's the building I believe is still standing it is between Santa Monica and Malibu on PCH
00:38:13
it's gorgeous it's the best location um right right on the ocean and uh it was deco looking
00:38:22
building it's really cool it's very notice it because it's really like it's an old-timey cool
00:38:26
structure i think it's like a like a car mechanic now or something is it really i have no idea it's
00:38:32
weird that they didn't make it like a it's so los angeles that they're just like oh yeah that can be
00:38:38
whatever you want we're not going to make it any kind of a landmark it's not going to be historic
00:38:41
Preserve it. Yeah. Have it be like a Pizza Hut Taco Bell drive-thru. That's what we like the most.
00:38:47
Let's desecrate this place. But quickly. So at the time, Thaumatog Sidewalk Cafe was the Spago of the 30s.
00:38:54
It was frequented by celebrities, politicians, and mobsters, all the people who partied.
00:38:59
And the menu offered gin fizz for 35 cents, which is what my parents used to have it every holiday, like Christmas morning, Easter morning.
00:39:08
They were gin fizz people. It's a gin fizz. Just gin and fizz? gin it's an egg oh god egg white egg white uh-huh oh man i don't know i don't think they use yolks
00:39:18
i hope not um it's it's my mom just drinks a whole egg and then she and she eats a gold live goldfish
00:39:27
and then she swallows the tire iron she gets into the and then it's a fish that she pulls out as a
00:39:35
fish skeleton and now she's in the guinness book of world records for it um what a great woman
00:39:42
uh gin fizz all i know is there's egg whites as you say gin and lemonade minute made lemonade
00:39:51
it always has to be from a can of minute made lemonade yeah of like defrosted can holy shit
00:39:56
that was always on the counter when it was all you know it was a holiday at the yogurt i'll take
00:40:00
for well if you took four at thalmatade sidewalk cafe it would only cost they would cost you 35
00:40:05
cents each great it's not the best yes i couldn't do i couldn't multiply that but i know it would
00:40:10
take me a minute it's over a dollar yeah i know that we don't even know it doesn't matter it's a
00:40:16
dollar 40 it's a 40 there was also the thalmatade knockout which was one dollar oh so that was like
00:40:22
triple a gin fizz there was the thalmatade milk punch which had a gin base i wonder if they made
00:40:29
all their own like bathtub gin and just served it. And the Thelma Todd Rickey instead of a lime
00:40:34
Rickey, which is 45 cents. And that last one was listed as a hot weather suggestion. Great. Thank
00:40:40
you. Yes. Yeah. Just wait for winter when you have that gin fizz. Yeah. Don't eat, drink egg whites
00:40:44
during the fucking summer. That sounds disgusting. Okay. So here's what's crazy. She opens Thelma
00:40:50
Todd Sidewalk Cafe with director and her on again, off again, lover, Roland West and his wife,
00:40:58
actress Jewel Carmen. She's like, great, let's do this. Jewel is like, I love restaurants. I love
00:41:04
ideas. I love my husband. God, I love this guy so much that I want to go into business with his
00:41:09
girlfriend actress. So weirder still, the three of them move into the duplex that's above the cafe.
00:41:17
Now, that line of information I got from one website, but then I saw on the Joan Renner's
00:41:26
website, there was actually a hand-drawn map of the location. And basically in the foreground,
00:41:32
right by the ocean is the building where Thelma Todd Sidewalk Cafe is. And at the top of that
00:41:37
building, there's an apartment that Thelma Todd lived in. But then in the street above,
00:41:44
basically, so it was like a house built into the hill, so it had a view of the ocean,
00:41:49
and overlooked the building where the cafe was That where Roland West lived with his wife but it was like up this it was basically up um the main house It was the main house up 300 stairs from PCH You would have to walk up them and then walk up the road
00:42:07
Okay. So they, but basically they all live together, whether it was in that apartment
00:42:11
above the cafe or in Roland's house. Yikes. Yeah. Apparently Jewel is fine. The wife is fine
00:42:18
that he, Roland is having an affair with Thelma Todd, but Roland is not happy because Thelma
00:42:24
now that they all live together and have this business together he sees the constant influx
00:42:29
of her other lovers that are on again when he's off again and it pisses him off he doesn't like it
00:42:35
because they're all roommates which is a mistake which what she isn't something you should do no
00:42:41
um if you're having an affair with a married man go ahead and don't move in with him
00:42:45
as a just as generalized advice definitely okay and one of those lovers is the mobster lucky
00:42:53
Luciano. Now this guy, have you ever seen a picture of him? I've seen the guy who played him
00:43:00
in Boardwalk Empire and holy shit, smoke stack, smoke stack, smoke show. That's the trendy thing
00:43:12
to say, but I'm starting smoke, smoke stack. He is a, he is the smoke stack of a nuclear
00:43:19
fission reactor. Abso-fucking-tively. Let me see a photo of him and what's the actor's name who played
00:43:25
him? I'll never know because he's a character actor, but he's look at the real Lucky Luciano.
00:43:31
He looks a little scarier than the actor. He has a lazy eye and scars on his face
00:43:37
like a panther scratched him. He's been punched in the face so many times. You know it. There's no cartilage
00:43:43
left in his nose and he himself is a smoke show. I will say If this guy was like, hey, I want to talk to you at this bar, I'd be like, well, abso-fucking-lutely.
00:43:55
What would you like to speak about, sir? Tell me anything with your broken jaw. I'm listening.
00:44:01
Your vaguely threatening face. Yeah. Just consistently. Talk about like a resting bitch face.
00:44:06
Yeah. He is resting. I'm going to shoot you in the back of the head when you think we're just out for a stroll.
00:44:11
Totally. Resting face. That's the thing. Will you look up the actor that played Lucky Luciano in Boardwalk Empire?
00:44:19
Because I do remember when his part would come on. There was him and there was Meyer Lansky, and they were both hot.
00:44:25
Totally. Well, Meyer Lansky's that amazing actor that's on. Yes. A simple man? A serious man.
00:44:32
A serious man. He's amazing. I love him. Okay, the actor's Vincent Piazza. He played Lucky Luciano.
00:44:38
Hey, he's so cute. He's the cute. Well, see, in that picture, he, of course, all actors take pictures wearing some weird European scarf.
00:44:47
And that's how you know that they're not the character they played in the period piece.
00:44:50
That's the only way you know. Because that guy is Lucky Luciano is so scary. And his hair is so perfectly like finger wave.
00:44:58
Yeah. And he's like all in that three piece suit. And he's just like, you can tell.
00:45:03
He's like New York Italian accent and shit. Yeah. And he's like calmly killing people and calling for people to be killed.
00:45:10
And Thelma Todd is like, absolutely. What? Remember this? Let me see. God damn it.
00:45:17
He did that. Oh, he's so cute. Yeah. You guys watch boardwalk empire. Yeah. Really good.
00:45:21
If you haven't seen boardwalk empire, I think it's on some of the streaming HBO or not.
00:45:26
Streaming. Um, please watch it. So Thelma Todd sees him and she's like, absolutely.
00:45:31
So he, she sees him, the non-acting version of him, the scar-faced version he's by the way when she meets him he was the first head of the genovese
00:45:43
crime family which is a pretty fucking big deal when i went on to lucky luciano's uh wikipedia page
00:45:50
just to kind of get a general sense because i thought he was like an la mobster that was just
00:45:55
kind of like opening clubs here and stuff no no no no he was like he was huge and everywhere i
00:46:03
couldn't figure out what city he originated in he was a smokestack he was the top brass he was
00:46:08
fucking a killer among killers so she meets him at the coconut grove where all great things
00:46:15
happened in the 30s yeah which i believe i could be wrong steven you might want to
00:46:20
he's steven's writing in his notebook right now he's you're writing takeout lucky luciano's day it just says lose five pounds
00:46:30
over and over again um i think coconut grove is what the comedy story is now because you heard
00:46:40
there's always the stories about how the comedy store on um sunset boulevard is haunted and it's
00:46:46
because i believe so stephen's going to correct me it used to be the coconut grove and they used
00:46:52
to take people in the basement and kill them constantly and there are amazing ghost stories
00:46:57
from people who have worked at the comedy store, guys who have left the main room,
00:47:01
closing up the club at night, and they go back in because they hear a noise, and all of the chairs are piled up
00:47:08
into one tall pile in the center of the room. Why is the scariest thing stacked furniture in the world?
00:47:15
Like fast stacked furniture. Yeah. Because then you know something happened. And those were people who told those stories
00:47:23
on like television ghost story shows where they were like, yep, this is, I'm, you're like, this guy's not a bullshitter.
00:47:29
No. Telling the truth. He, he said it was like, it's so scary. So I think, Stephen, am I wrong?
00:47:34
I think, well, yeah, it says here cause it was demolished in 2005. I guess that was, it used to be, or it was turned into the Ambassador Hotel.
00:47:43
Oh. But it doesn't say anything about the comedy story. So where was Coconut Grove?
00:47:47
This was in, it was on 3400 Wilshire. Oh. Oh, nowhere near it. And everyone knows the Ambassador Hotel never had any problems and everything went well there.
00:47:58
Everything was great at the time. Ambassador Hotel, no major assassinations. Never.
00:48:03
Took place there. So everything is fine. I guess there's lots of bad vibes in L.A.
00:48:07
Is really what the... I mean, that's really L.A. That's the moral of the story. One bad vibe.
00:48:13
Okay. So, you see now why this is not a closer. Okay, so she meets Lucky Luciano.
00:48:22
They're at the Coconut Grove. He offers her a glass of champagne. She says no thanks because she stopped drinking when she divorced asshole.
00:48:28
he when she refuses him grabs her and pours a bottle of Dom Perignon down her throat oh my god
00:48:37
and then they fall in love no yeah because Thelma Todd uh had a real problem with dating
00:48:45
abusive men you know probably like starting from her father the relationship she had with her father
00:48:51
distant abuse of alcoholic men was kind of her thing and also it was so common back then yeah
00:48:57
It was just a thing I think a lot of women just expected to happen. Right. You were manhandled.
00:49:01
You were treated like a thing. So she, but also how scary to date a mobster. Those people are, that's scary.
00:49:11
Totally. And she's like, I'm in it. Cause she was all speeded out. And he also got her better diet pills.
00:49:16
Oh, he immediately got her hooked on stronger and fed means and was like, we're doing this.
00:49:21
But the sad part is he may have been using her because what he wanted, although she was
00:49:26
the most beautiful and successful woman in Hollywood at the time. She really was huge.
00:49:31
She was like the biggest star. But he wanted to open a casino above Thelma Todd Sidewalk Cafe
00:49:38
in the empty third floor of that building. And that was his plan. So what he wanted to do
00:49:45
was because she already had the celebrities and all the people going there. He wants to open a
00:49:49
casino on the third floor. Then the movie studio executives would go up there, lose their money,
00:49:56
owe him money, and then he would slowly take over the studio system. That was Lucky Luciano's plan.
00:50:01
Holy shit. And that's what he wanted to do. But Thelma Todd basically said, no, you're not.
00:50:07
She didn't want to have any of that involved in her restaurant. And that wasn't happening.
00:50:12
Now I'm seeding you all the little things that were going on in Thelma Todd's life.
00:50:17
All nefarious and... Yeah. Right. Lots of bad vibes. Good, fun, great comedy stuff.
00:50:23
Hot dogs. but then also lots of lots of creepy stuff so on the night of saturday december 14th 1935
00:50:32
she gets invited to a party that ida lapino who at the time was 16 years old her father who was a
00:50:40
british actor he was throwing her her 16th birthday party or a a party for her i assumed it was her
00:50:46
birthday at the trocadero which is another famous club maybe maybe that's what the comedy store was
00:50:51
it was actually talking i just talked into my phone uh it was zeros and it was a mafia
00:50:58
controlled nightclub zero yeah okay there's a article in daily brewing about the history okay
00:51:03
read it yeah um thanks steven uh okay so they go to chocodero for ida lupino's birthday now if you
00:51:11
don't know anything about ida lupino at the time she was only 16 she went on to become a really big
00:51:16
star in the uh 40s i think more in the 50s and then she became a director she was one of the first
00:51:22
big female directors in hollywood and it's only ever mentioned on like that a goo on the google
00:51:29
art thing once a year when it's like you know the date of her death or whatever but if you're
00:51:34
interested in anything like that look up ida lupino because she was a big deal and she should
00:51:38
be more famous okay uh so ernie peters is one of felma todd's um uh usual limo drivers and so
00:51:48
he picked her up her and her mother going to this party and when they get into the car
00:51:53
felma gets chased out of the house by roland west who is yelling you be back by 2 a.m and she gets
00:52:01
into the limo and turns around and says i'll be home at 205 and then they peel out um is how i
00:52:07
like to imagine it so they go to this party ernie ends up driving thelma's mother alice home around
00:52:14
eight o'clock thelma stays um while she's still there at the party um her ex-husband pat the
00:52:22
chit chio shows up with a young actress he was not invited to this party so they immediately get
00:52:28
into a fight she's like you're trying to embarrass me you're trying to humiliate me it's a big blow
00:52:33
up and then she just stays there obviously she wasn't that embarrassed because she stayed and
00:52:38
until 2 30 in the morning she sits down at sid grauman's table the man who opened the chinese
00:52:44
theater uh-huh and it was one of the first big hollywood guys i don't know anything about him
00:52:49
i'm just trying to lie through this part um she sits down at his table and says will you call
00:52:54
roland and tell him i'll be home i'm leaving now i'll be home in a half an hour i pictured as he
00:53:00
He was sitting at one of those tables that had a phone at it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like on the side, little side table hanging with a phone.
00:53:04
Which in 1935 would be like having your own satellite. Yeah. Real big deal, Sid Grumman.
00:53:10
So when she finally leaves and gets sent back into the limo, it's 3 a.m. Yikes. Ernie, the limo driver, says that Thelma was unusually quiet on the ride home,
00:53:19
which is really saying something. She was on a ton of diet pills. Yeah. God, you want to talk so much on those.
00:53:25
And smoke. when he drops her off at 3 30 he offers to walk her up the 63 step flight of stairs that was
00:53:34
goes up to the house above but she does something she never does because he normally does do that
00:53:40
especially if she's been out drinking she says no and that's ernie peters is the last person to
00:53:47
see selma todd alive so on monday morning this is this is late saturday night early sunday morning
00:53:53
On Monday morning Thelma maid of four years her name is May Whitehead she drives her own car down to the garage to get Thelma Brown Lincoln convertible and bring that down the hill to the cafe where Thelma usually is at the time
00:54:11
so that she can use her car down there. And that was the setup that they always did on Monday mornings.
00:54:18
And she later tells the police that the doors to the garage were closed, but they were unlocked.
00:54:24
and inside she finds Thelma Todd slumped over in the driver's seat of her car. The engine's running almost out of gas.
00:54:33
So May runs down to the cafe. She tells the manager of the cafe to call Roland West
00:54:38
and then the police are called. When Thelma's mother is told of her daughter's death,
00:54:42
she screams, my daughter was murdered. That's the first thing she says. Thelma Todd was 29 years old at the time of her death.
00:54:50
young so the second the story breaks that she died um her death is treated with total suspicion
00:54:57
and murder is immediately in the headlines there's no proof of it um and there kind of will never be
00:55:03
but it's just immediately introduced by the press and by people like aggie underwood the true crime
00:55:09
people who are just like this is a woman who's in the prime of her career she is young she's
00:55:16
still gorgeous. She's get now getting full length movies. And she, you know, like she's really coming
00:55:23
into her own. Her restaurant is huge. She's why would she kill herself? It makes no sense that
00:55:28
she would kill herself. But law enforcement theorized that what actually happened was she
00:55:32
came home drunk from that party. She found herself locked out of the house like Roland West said he
00:55:37
would do. And they're at the beach. So anywhere else in Los Angeles, it would be unlikely but out
00:55:43
on the coast, it would be pretty cold at 3.30 in the morning in December. Right.
00:55:48
So she went in, they theorized she went into the garage to get warm, and because she was
00:55:53
drunk, she turned her car on to use the heater, and she died of... Carbon monoxide?
00:56:02
Carbon monoxide poisoning. Oh, my eyes were scanning the page so quickly. So a coroner's inquest into Thelma Todd's death is held on December 18th, 1935.
00:56:14
The autopsy surgeon A.P. Wagner testifies there are, quote, no marks of violence anywhere upon or within the body.
00:56:22
And that there was only a superficial contusion on her lower lip. So they say that her from one of her front teeth was chipped and that there was blood on her lip.
00:56:31
From what? From hitting the. They say from passing out and hitting her mouth on the steering wheel.
00:56:37
so the jury rules that the death appears to be accidental but recommends further investigation
00:56:43
to be made into the case by proper authorities um but now other people claim and a lot of
00:56:50
journalists theorize that her nose was broken so she didn't just fall in like pass out into the
00:56:56
steering wheel um her nose was broken and some say they saw bruising around her neck that indicated
00:57:03
strangulation. There were also rumors that she had two broken ribs. She'd also had peas and
00:57:10
carrots in her stomach. They did not serve peas and carrots at the Trocadero. So then there were
00:57:15
theories that when she went up and found that she was locked out of the house, she ended up going
00:57:21
somewhere else and eating and hanging out with somebody. But that's all theory. Was there alcohol
00:57:27
in her system? She had a 0.13 blood alcohol level. So that's drunk, but it's not like crazy sloppy
00:57:34
drunk. It's like drunk, but you can get yourself. They say that you would know that you were about
00:57:41
to gas yourself if you've gotten to your if you were that drunk and you wanted to turn on the
00:57:45
heater, you'd be like, I'm just gonna have to be cold in this garage. Yeah. But who knows? Who
00:57:49
knows? I mean, she couldn't even cross her mind that that's people die that way. You know, it
00:57:53
could it could have been that it could also been that if she was also on all that speed yeah that
00:57:57
she didn't have all her faculties and she just was kind of like fuck it i'm gonna do this for one
00:58:01
second yeah um fell asleep yeah yeah who knows a grand jury probe subsequently found that there
00:58:08
was no evidence of murder um and the case was closed by the homicide bureau uh which listed
00:58:14
the death as accidental with possible suicidal tendencies the investigators were never able to
00:58:21
find any motive for suicide or a suicide note and all her friends and family were like it's
00:58:27
impossible that she was would want to commit suicide um because of course of her career
00:58:32
of her restaurant like everything was going great for her yeah um but then why was she so quiet in
00:58:38
the car maybe she was just like fuck this shit well she could have been drunk she could have
00:58:42
could have been because of that fight with her ex and maybe being embarrassed from that it could
00:58:47
have been she could have also met somebody at that party that she then planned to go see after
00:58:54
and was going home to get her car to go she was like you don't need to walk me upstairs because
00:59:00
she wasn't going upstairs no she was like going to meet somebody i mean who knows so here's the
00:59:06
even weirder part then a bunch when police start looking into it a bunch of people come forward
00:59:11
claiming that they saw or talked to Thelma Todd on Sunday, December 15th. What? Yes.
00:59:17
So one of the people who claimed this was a woman named Martha Ford. She's the wife of actor Wallace Ford,
00:59:24
and she was hosting a party on Sunday during the day. And she claims that Thelma called her,
00:59:30
and when she first got on the phone, she thought it was someone named Velma. She didn't know who she was talking to.
00:59:37
And then she realized it was Thelma, and she's Thelma asked if it would be okay if she wore evening clothes from the night before to her
00:59:45
party that day and when Martha said sure I don't care she claims that Thelma then told her she was
00:59:53
bringing a surprise guest and said quote she said Martha said she said quote you just wait until I walk in You fall dead So somebody in the mix
01:00:05
If this is to be believed and it wasn't an imposter, there was somebody in the mix that
01:00:10
because you could also be quiet in a car after being in a club because you ran into someone
01:00:15
awesome and hot that you were like, oh, my God, I'm going to go meet this guy. And you're like some famous actor or something that you're like, yeah, enough with.
01:00:25
And also, famous enough, there's the tragedy train. Can you hear it? Choo-chooing.
01:00:31
Choo-choo. Thinking about that, if she herself is one of the most famous actresses,
01:00:38
who could she have been talking about that she was like, you're going to die when you see who I'm bringing to your party?
01:00:43
George Clooney. It's clones from the early days. Pre-ER Clooney. Okay. So, yeah, Mrs. Ford assured investigators it was not an impossible
01:00:54
an imposter, she was positive. She spoke to Thelma Todd. Then later in court, I don't know if it's in court is accurate.
01:01:04
I think I just wrote that. But later on, Jewel Carmen, who's Roland West's wife,
01:01:09
she testified that she saw Thelma Todd at the intersection of Hollywood and Vine
01:01:15
on Sunday morning with a handsome stranger in the passenger seat of her car. But according to the coroner's
01:01:23
estimated time of death, Thelma was already dead in the garage at Jewel's house when she claims to have seen her in Hollywood,
01:01:33
which, if you know anything about Los Angeles, is very far away from Pacific Palisades,
01:01:38
where all of this was taking place. And, like, if she needed to, like, her seeing her is suspicious because she's, like,
01:01:45
putting her somewhere else to avoid the suspicion. Yep, exactly. Or any connection of her, her family, the house.
01:01:53
Yeah, no, she was alive when I saw her. and not near here. Yeah. She was having a great time
01:01:58
at Hollywood and Vine where that Starbucks is. With a hot stranger. Yeah. At the old timey Starbucks.
01:02:04
With that old Starbucks that just had the one barista. He did it all. So Thelma Todd's funeral
01:02:09
is held on December 19th. It's like three days later. Open casket. Thousands of fans show up
01:02:17
to view the body. There's really weird pictures. You can see there's tons of pictures
01:02:23
of all this stuff because this was also back, and I talked about this a little bit with the Agnes Underwood thing.
01:02:29
This was back when the press would show up with the cops at crime scenes. So like in all of this stuff, there's pictures of everything.
01:02:36
You can see pictures of Thelma Todd in her car, in the garage. You can see it all.
01:02:41
Oh my God. Yeah, it's nuts. So there is a picture of her in her coffin at the viewing.
01:02:47
And her coffin is surrounded by roses. They're piled up everywhere behind her and on it.
01:02:53
It's really weird. Also, the coffin is tipped up a little bit. So you can see her Thelma.
01:02:59
It's open casket. You can see her from far away. That's so creepy. It's so creepy.
01:03:05
And it's, yeah. Of course, her two ex-friends and co-stars, Patsy Kelly and Zazu Pitts, were devastated.
01:03:11
And it was said that Patsy Kelly was so upset she had to be kept under a doctor's care.
01:03:16
Because she had just gone shopping with Thelma Todd like days before. And she wasn't even 30.
01:03:23
Yeah. I mean, it's horrible. So now we talk about some of the suspects. So obviously the ex-husband is the first suspect because it's one of the last people who saw her alive.
01:03:33
Public fight. Infamous, like, wife beater. This guy, Pat DeChicka, whatever his name is, went on to marry Gloria Vanderbilt.
01:03:42
Oh, my God. He used to call her Fatso. He had some horrible nickname for a woman who is in no way.
01:03:51
Like, he's a fucking pig. and he used to beat the shit out of her as well so he and he had mob ties you know yeah if if
01:04:00
Thelma Todd embarrassed him at that huge party that he was not invited to with all these famous
01:04:05
people he could have just been enraged and gotten drunk himself went back knew she was when she was
01:04:11
going home and like met her on the staircase and then basically set up the body to make it look
01:04:16
Like it was an accidental death. And later on in 1937, Pat Tachico was said to have been involved in an altercation with comedian Ted Healy that led to his death.
01:04:29
So he's no stranger to beating the shit out of people until they die. Yeah. So he's up there.
01:04:36
Of course, Lucky Luciano is up there because of his whole plan of putting the casino above Thelma Todd Sidewalk Cafe that she said no to.
01:04:46
Um, uh, and he clearly wouldn't, would not in any way. I mean, he was, he, he was like the head of a huge crime family.
01:04:56
No one says no to this guy. So it could have been knocking her off to get her out of the way so that they can go
01:05:02
in and actually make that plan. That's obviously like a plan to take over show business.
01:05:08
Yeah. Um, and it said that a few hours after Thelma's body was found, he was on a plane out of
01:05:16
LA and he left town. But the most likely, oh, also Thelma's mother, Alice, was said to have
01:05:24
been bragging about two friends that she was going to build a mansion for herself. And Alice was the
01:05:31
only person in Thelma Todd's will. So she was going to get all the money. No way her mom knocked her off.
01:05:38
Well, you never know. But then there's Roland West. So Roland West admitted that he did lock the door on Thelma Todd that night and locked her out of the house.
01:05:48
And he had done it before to her. But he claimed when he was like on the official record he claimed he was only joking when he ran out and said you have to be back by 2 a Hilarious It one of those hilarious threatening jokes But nobody believed he was joking because he was constantly enraged
01:06:08
So apparently his career wasn't doing that well. She wasn't that interested in him anymore.
01:06:13
He was having to witness her other lovers and all the dates that she went on and the fun parties that she went to.
01:06:19
So at the very least, there are theories that he intentionally locked her out. that led to her death accidental death by a carbon monoxide poisoning um he found her then
01:06:31
tried to like basically make it look like that's what happened and that like it had nothing to do
01:06:36
with him which is then why his wife jewel said that that she saw uh trying to cover her husband
01:06:43
yeah exactly and he basically knew what he did led to her death so he was just trying to like
01:06:48
break the chain but there are also theories that he's that he she came home late they got into a
01:06:54
fight he strangled her to death which uh is you know connects those supposed bruises that she had
01:07:01
on her neck um and a broken nose and the you know like basically her general being battered um
01:07:07
that he had finally had it and that he then placed her in the garage and made it look like
01:07:13
she either killed herself or um basically just uh carbon dioxide poisoned herself she passed out
01:07:22
and then put her in there and so she still would have died from it right you know yeah maybe you're
01:07:28
saying there's a third third theory no no no he he strangles her till she passed he doesn't actually
01:07:33
kill her she he just does something to make her pass out puts her in the car turns the engine on
01:07:38
oh and then she dies from that so the coroner's like this is what she died from but she was placed
01:07:43
in there. Yes. And it's all kind of convenient, but it works out perfectly for him because then
01:07:48
he has the restaurant, right? He has everything. He maybe even has like deals with Lucky Lucian.
01:07:53
Maybe he wants the casino in that place. Well, it did turn into a casino after that, right?
01:07:58
I don't think so. I don't know. I don't think so. I don't think so. I think, I think, yeah, it just went straight to Jiffy Lube, straight into the Jiffy Lube that's there
01:08:07
today. And if you bring a coupon, they will honor it. Oh, wow. There are unsubstantiated rumors that
01:08:12
Roland West admitted on his deathbed to Chester Morris, your favorite actor, and his good friend,
01:08:18
that he was more involved with Thelma's death than he had initially admitted to police. But
01:08:25
of course, those are unsubstantiated by Chester Morris himself, who everyone knows is a fucking
01:08:30
liar. He lies everywhere. Thelma Todd's last movie, she starred in with Laurel and Hardy.
01:08:35
It was a comedy called The Bohemian Girl, and she died after she had finished it.
01:08:42
But producer Hal Roach reshot almost every scene, deleted all of her dialogue, and limited her appearance to one musical number.
01:08:51
And the quote that I pulled that I was so excited to even tell this whole thing, it basically, when the press asked her on the day that Thelma Todd Sidewalk Cafe opened, the press asked her why she would open a restaurant.
01:09:03
and she basically gives this badass answer and God bless anyone that can find it
01:09:07
but she basically said she's setting up a safety net for herself because she wants
01:09:11
to be able so in the future when she's not pretty enough and when she gains too much
01:09:15
weight she can just go and transition right into this business and never worry about it again
01:09:21
the way that her friends and the people around her were so caught up in looking beautiful, staying young and all
01:09:29
the traps and dangers Do you have it? Fucking Steven. Oh, my God. Here it is. This is it, Steven.
01:09:38
Amazing. How come I couldn't find this fucking website? I realized long ago that it is only a case of a few years for an actress before she gradually and sometimes almost imperceptibly loses popularity and younger ones start to take her place.
01:09:53
Look at some of the one time famous stars of a few years ago. Whoever hears of them now.
01:09:59
Most of them are unhappy and rather bewildered. bewildered. It's pretty hard to have your lifelong career at an end. So I decided long ago that I
01:10:06
wasn't going to be one of them. The years are not going to bother me as they do so many of my
01:10:10
colleagues. Wrinkles won't worry me. Neither will increasing weight because as long as I can use my
01:10:16
head, it won't matter how I look. Thelma Todd and Karen fucking Kilgara. Thank you so much for
01:10:25
Finding that. God bless you. Amazing. Wow. We should open a restaurant. You want to?
01:10:31
Because everyone knows podcasting, as soon as you start to age and gain weight, they kick you right out of there.
01:10:39
So the opposite. God bless you all. The podcasting mafia. You know how they are.
01:10:44
And that is the story of the mysterious death of 30s actress Thelma Todd. Great job.
01:10:51
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All right. This is called the footpath murders. But it's got like historical significance that I don't want to tell you about yet.
01:13:31
Okay. And I got a lot of information from a good article in The Guardian by Ian Cobain and elsewhere.
01:13:40
Okay, here we go. November 21st, 1983 in Narborough, which I definitely had to look up and make sure I said it right.
01:13:49
A quiet village located in Leicestershire. Another fucking hard one that I was not sure I was going to get right.
01:13:55
Is that spelled out phonetically? I spelled it out. Lester, sure. Lester, sure. And Narborough, I read out like G-N-A-R, like G-N-A-R-ly.
01:14:04
Don't know why. Gnarlyborough. That's right. So Narborough is about 100 miles from London.
01:14:11
It's like a small little village. It's not super small, but it definitely feels like a little
01:14:15
village. And so November 21st, 1983, 15-year-old Linda Mann takes a shortcut on her way home from
01:14:23
babysitting instead of taking her normal route. So it's a small village community where crime is
01:14:28
almost unheard of. So when Linda hadn't arrived home by that night, people start to worry and
01:14:34
freak out. Her family calls the police to report her missing. The next morning on a deserted foot
01:14:39
path known locally as Black Pad, Linda Mann is found dead with her clothing scattered around her.
01:14:46
She'd been strangled with her own scarf and the autopsy shows that she had been killed pretty
01:14:51
quickly and uh had been raped post-mortem yeah yeah awful takes her little shortcut down to some
01:14:57
fucking like you know as you do when you're 15 in a little village yeah like in a little yeah
01:15:03
yeah so it probably wasn't even that secluded you know it was just a shortcut that everyone took
01:15:08
right so using the forensic science techniques available at the time police uh find that the
01:15:15
The person, they take a semen sample from Linda's body and they say it's a person with type A blood and an enzyme profile that matched only 10% of males in England.
01:15:28
And the quiet village town is terrified. The residents are fucking in a frenzy, freaking out, wanting to catch this killer of a high school girl.
01:15:38
But there's no leads or evidence and the case is not closed, but it's left open and kind of goes cold.
01:15:45
For three years, time goes by. The town starts to kind of somewhat go back to normal.
01:15:51
And then on July 31st, 1986, on a Thursday afternoon, another 15-year-old high school girl from the same fucking high school named Dawn Ashworth.
01:16:03
She leaves a friend's house in the village and begins her trek home only a few minutes walk away.
01:16:09
Dawn, she was only 12 at the time of Linda's murder. So maybe she didn't hear the warnings.
01:16:16
Maybe she didn't think of it. She chose to take a shortcut along an overgrown footpath locally known as 10-pound lane.
01:16:24
And then she vanishes and her family becomes worried again. They put out a search for her.
01:16:31
They can't find her until two days later when Dawn's body is found in the corner of a nearby field close to the 10-pound lane that she had taken.
01:16:41
she's covered in twigs and branches and uh the pathologist established that she had put up a
01:16:48
fucking crazy fight um so she hadn't been killed right away like linda had she and then had been
01:16:54
raped and strangled so the field where dawn was found in was just three fields away which is like
01:17:00
100 yards from where linda's body had been found three years earlier plus the locations were between
01:17:06
a cemetery and a psychiatric hospital oh no so everyone's losing their shit like did a fucking
01:17:11
psychiatric patient get out and you know kill these people right poor girls um did someone rise
01:17:18
from the dead and kill in the cemetery that's right so it's a it's like which that just cordon
01:17:24
it off as the creepiest area of your village and don't have anybody walk over there never ever i
01:17:30
mean it's so creepy and so they're like well these these are probably related and so semen
01:17:34
And samples taken from Don's body show that it's the same person who had killed Linda three years earlier.
01:17:40
Detectives believe that the killer is a local man, someone who knew the area and possibly even knew Linda for some reason.
01:17:45
A week into their investigation into Don murder police get a break when witnesses come forward saying that they had seen a young man in the vicinity of 10 Pound Lane on the day of Don murder And that man is tracked down and it turns out to be a 17 year old named Richard Buckland So Richard Buckland is a kitchen worker at the psychiatric hospital
01:18:08
All right. Yeah. Let's see. He likes to volunteer at the cemetery. That's right. He's a kitchen worker at the cemetery, too.
01:18:15
He has a reputation around the village for liking to scare girls as they walk home.
01:18:20
and after 15 hours of questioning Richard who had learning difficulties kind of a slow dude I believe he confesses to Don
01:18:33
Ashworth's murder but he adamantly denies having anything to do with Linda's murder. He's like I didn't do that one but I did do this one
01:18:41
and of course they're saying he had information that only the killer could have which we all know now is not
01:18:45
you know doesn't mean anything if you've been interrogated for 15 hours But the police are 100% certain that the person who killed one killed the other.
01:18:55
It's impossible that he just killed one of them. And they are convinced he's lying.
01:19:01
So he's charged on August 10th with Don's murder. And okay, meanwhile, across town, this dude, Alec Jeffries, let's talk about him.
01:19:10
Ten miles away from where the girls had been murdered at the University of Leicestershire,
01:19:15
who, of course, their mascot, of course. Oh, the fighting walnuts. Great. You know, walnuts, how they like to fight each other.
01:19:25
In England. Clonk into each other all the time. Very common. Fight, fight, fight.
01:19:29
Oh, it's so loud. Yeah. Walnuts everywhere. Clack. Clack. Okay, so at the University of, what did I call it?
01:19:37
Leicestershire. So he, this dude, Alec Jeffries, is a genetic researcher. and he had recently made an unexpected but insane fucking discovery during a failed experiment.
01:19:50
He was studying the way inherited illnesses pass through families and kind of studying
01:19:56
like so he could do paternity tests and that sort of thing. Oh, yeah. He had extracted DNA cells and attached it to a photographic film, which he had then
01:20:05
left in a photographic developing tank. And once he extracted that, the film showed a sequence of bars.
01:20:11
and Jeffries realized that every individual whose cell had been used in the experiment
01:20:16
could be identified with great precision. So he was the fucking first person to do DNA testing.
01:20:23
To realize that DNA, like a fingerprint, everyone has their own. It's specific. If you're from a family, you can tell what people are families and all this shit.
01:20:32
Holy shit. This fucking Alec Jeffries dude. Whoa. He's the originator. So after published, so he's like, this is incredible.
01:20:38
He I'm sure he had a lot of fucking co-workers and buddies who were it's not just him, etc.
01:20:43
He's not alone. I don't want to give him all the credit. However, he published he after publishing an academic paper on his discovery, he uses his new single testing to solve paternity cases and all other kinds of like cases like that.
01:20:56
But he's also like, well, I wonder if this could be used to apprehend criminals as well.
01:21:01
so but he when he had fucking talked about that possibility at like a conference the fucking
01:21:07
audience laughed at him of course they did that's what always goes like that's not gonna happen bro
01:21:12
yeah how would you know yeah dummies right looks like you're wrong in your face from
01:21:18
what 80 years ahead yeah look at your dumb face um but lester shirt police thought or like i guess
01:21:27
they were kind of forward thinking because they were like let's have this guy fucking help us
01:21:31
prove that this Richard Buckland is the murderer of both of them. So they contact Jeffries.
01:21:38
He agrees to test Buckland's blood and semen on the girls' bodies. But when he takes the film from the developing bank,
01:21:47
he could see immediately that the girls had indeed been raped and killed by the same person.
01:21:54
But that man was not Richard Buckland in either fucking case. Oh, shit. Yeah. Okay.
01:22:00
So the police are totally astonished. I wrote, there's probably a ton of hubbubbery around.
01:22:07
Hubbubbery. Whoa! And it's England, so it's very... British bubbery. Yeah, kind of curly mustache hubbubbery.
01:22:14
Hubbubbery. They have Jeffreys repeat the test two more times. Shit. And it's definitely not him.
01:22:20
The senior investigating officer says at the time, one minute we got the guy, and the next we've got Jack's shit.
01:22:27
And that's where that phrase was invented. Right. But in a British accent, which is so much better.
01:22:33
Did they say jack shit over there? That's so funny. I bet because it's kind of a cute phrase instead of just like, you know, like jack shit's cuter than bullshit.
01:22:45
Maybe. And yeah, sure. So after more than three months in custody, Buckland, clearly innocent now, is set free.
01:22:52
And the police are back to square one with their hunt for this fucking highly dangerous double killer of teenage girls.
01:22:59
Yeah. So they fucking throw their balls to the wall and they're like, let's just do everything we can.
01:23:05
How about this? It's an unprecedented move. They send out a letter to all the local men between the ages of 17 and 34 asking them to give a voluntary DNA sample.
01:23:16
A what kind? Voluntary. What did I say? Volunary? Volunary. What is voluntary? I thought you're teaching me all this new blood samples.
01:23:29
Nipple stuff. Volunary DNA. It comes directly from your nipple. It's when you squeeze your nipple really hard.
01:23:35
That's voluntary. Ow. And then the juice that comes out. After a while, Alec was like, I don't think this test is worth it.
01:23:42
I've invented a ton of great tests here. Every time I go on stage to tell people about this, even though it works better than anything else, they laugh at me.
01:23:48
I'm sick of it. I want voluntary testing to be required. That's right. On everyone.
01:23:54
And then the nipple clamps come out That right Everyone like I don like this Gross I don care how many crimes it solves Okay So they ask all these dudes to give voluntary DNA samples It becomes the world first mass screening for DNA
01:24:07
Wow. Yeah. By the end of that month, around a thousand men had volunteered to give samples.
01:24:11
And of course, the police are like, we're going to flush out the people who fucking won't give samples, because obviously those people are guilty of something.
01:24:18
Yes. And at the time, the forensic science laboratories or laboratories, because we're in.
01:24:23
As they like to say. aluminum aluminum they're they can't even keep up because they're like testing so many people
01:24:30
and of course the media at the time and a lot of people were talking about how like this is
01:24:35
a violation of your um what's it called your dna right yeah and like personal rights all this
01:24:42
bullshit but the fucking townspeople over in uh leicestershire are like fuck you they're so
01:24:48
hardcore into catching this killer that they don't give a shit good and basically like hound all their
01:24:53
friends the male friends into making sure that they go get tested like everyone's on it and also
01:24:58
i just would urge people who believe that it's a it's it's somehow uh a violation of your rights
01:25:05
like it doesn't make sense because the cops can get you in lots of different ways yeah this whole
01:25:10
dna thing like it's such a weird paranoid um theory of like then they have you as if this
01:25:17
apocalyptic future where everyone's going to get controlled by cops with their dna or whatever
01:25:21
where it's just like, it's bad now. But it's to catch murderers and rapists. Yeah, that's what it's being used for.
01:25:26
And they have a thing, I think there's a thing now, it's not really, this isn't really used anymore,
01:25:31
this mass screening, but when they do do it, they have to then destroy all the evidence
01:25:35
or the DNA of people who weren't the suspect. Right. They can't keep it, you know, to be like,
01:25:41
well, maybe later we'll have a crime that this guy will commit. Yeah. That sort of thing.
01:25:44
They can't, oftentimes police departments can't solve the crimes that they're there.
01:25:48
They're not like holding a bit. Why am I arguing this? Because you're mad about it.
01:25:54
I'm not. Because Karen is all about personal rights. I hate personal rights. And she argues against them any chance she gets.
01:26:03
Blah, blah, blah. Okay. After eight months, 5,500 men had given blood samples. Only one person had refused.
01:26:12
But I don't think it's him. It wasn't him. Okay. It wasn't, I promise. Okay. But there's no match with the killer's samples and the police are still at a fucking loss.
01:26:21
And they like, even though they tested, can you imagine 5,500 fucking people that you're
01:26:25
testing and they're not, you're just not finding him. Yeah. After like 2,500, you're like, it's probably going to be this next guy.
01:26:31
Cause we're like, we've done so many. So many. But I mean, super props to the Lester Shirk police department who were just like, by any
01:26:40
means necessary. Yeah. And forward thinking, because I feel like so many people were like DNA.
01:26:44
I mean, it took like until the O.J. Simpson trial for anyone to even know what it was.
01:26:48
But they were like, let's use this immediately. Yes. Which is pretty insane. Okay.
01:26:53
Then in August of 1987, here we are. Yes. More than a year after the murder of Dawn, some workmates from a local bakery are having some pints at a pub.
01:27:04
I wrote all of that. Here we're having drinks at a bar. They're having pints at a pub.
01:27:10
And they're workmates, not coworkers. That's right. I'm in England. When one of them, this dude named Kelly, he starts drunkenly bragging.
01:27:18
He has a big mouth. He starts drunkenly bragging to his coworkers about how he had been paid 200 pounds by one of their coworkers to impersonate him and give bloods in his place.
01:27:30
Oh, no. Good old Kelly. You can't keep his fucking mouth shut. Kelly, braggy, brag, brag.
01:27:36
God bless you. And then at the same time. Yeah. Oh, you're the worst. Give Kelly one pint and he won't shut his fucking mouth.
01:27:42
Zip it. mouth. You have to pick better than Kelly when you're going to get somebody that's going to have
01:27:46
a big dark secret. That's right. Buy Kelly a bag of chips, whatever, and he'll talk. Okay. Kelly
01:27:53
explains drunkenly to his friends that the coworker that they all knew had asked for this
01:27:59
favor. Kelly said that he told him that he had already taken, this guy had already taken the
01:28:03
test for someone else who had a conviction for indecent exposure when he was younger.
01:28:08
so now Kelly needed to take it for him it wasn't you know what I mean it's not it wasn't his fault
01:28:13
he's caught up in this insane it's a circle DNA fraud uh link exactly that's right um so the co
01:28:21
so this co-worker had doctored his passport like cut out his little picture and put in the picture
01:28:27
of Kelly's stupid face uh and then driven him to the test center and waited outside while Kelly gave
01:28:33
his blood sample in his place. It worked out. Like a carpool mom just waited out there and run right back outside.
01:28:41
Don't dilly dally, Kelly. That's right. When you're in there, don't get talking about football.
01:28:46
Right. Don't be like that soccer. Yes, exactly. Luckily, there's a fucking nosy woman at the bar.
01:28:53
Yeah, girl. Who fucking overhears all of this. Yes. And is like, wait a fucking minute.
01:28:58
This is insane. And tells the police about it. Yes, she does. Yeah, she does. Kelly is promptly arrested.
01:29:06
By the end of the day, this fucking coworker is also in custody. Who's a coworker?
01:29:11
25-year-old Colin Pitchfork. No. That's his name. Okay. He is married to a social worker who, of course, had no fucking clue.
01:29:21
They have two young sons together. He had worked at Hampshire's Bakery for over a decade.
01:29:28
And here's what it said in one of the articles. Despite his habit of constantly hitting on female employees, according to his boss, he was a good worker and had a special talent for artistic cake decorations.
01:29:39
I mean. So don't fire him. Yeah. Soon, hopefully, hopefully in the next five years, people will begin to integrate the idea that hitting on women.
01:29:51
Constantly. Using your word. Constantly. Constantly at work It shows sign of it That you not a good guy Yeah maybe there an impulse control issue Maybe there other boundaries Just yeah you a creep
01:30:06
Just creep, the creep issue. Yeah. He, but also, you know, he had a previous conviction for indecent exposure.
01:30:13
He was the indecent exposure that he was claiming. Exactly. Be covering for. He was picked up.
01:30:20
And after reading him his rights, the detective asked why Dawson Ashworth and Colin Pitchfork shrugged and replied, opportunity.
01:30:29
She was there and I was there. He's just a fucking monster. Yeah. Then he gave a detailed.
01:30:36
So he believed in DNA evidence, too. So he wasn't even going to try to fucking say it wasn't him.
01:30:41
Right. He gives detailed a detailed confession to both murders and two other sexual assaults that he had done.
01:30:48
Wow. He told police that when he raped and killed Linda Mann, our first victim, his car had been parked nearby and his baby son had been asleep in the back of it.
01:30:59
Holy shit. That's right. And the night of Don's killing that night, he returned home to his home in the village of Little Thorpe and baked a cake.
01:31:12
Yeah. It's insane. immediately i'm thinking of paul hollywood in the great american the great british baking show
01:31:20
have you watched it yeah i think we've talked about it yeah and how i'm i'm so obsessed with it
01:31:26
yeah it's great well that comes in actually that comes into play i'm just saying how was his sponge
01:31:31
what that night was it affected by his terrible terrible crimes against humanity or was he able
01:31:38
to get a nice bake. Jesus, I don't know. He's so creepy. He does look like a normal dude,
01:31:44
kind of, too, except there's one, his mugshot, his eyeballs, his, like, pupils look like they're just
01:31:51
floating in his eyes. Ew, what? Like, that's how dead they are. They're like, they're just like,
01:31:56
it's just like someone was like, here's what a human eye is supposed to look like.
01:32:00
And, like, how, you know when you put an egg, a raw egg in water and it floats, they just look so dead
01:32:06
that they're just... Oh, yeah. Doesn't he? Yes, he has what I believe the Japanese call seppuku, where your iris doesn't touch your bottom.
01:32:14
Right. And I think... Like they're bobbing in there. Yes. And they're floaters. And it means, I believe it's Japanese culture or whatever, that you're evil if you have eyes like that.
01:32:28
Well, I might have done that before, so I don't want to go that far. Do you mind?
01:32:31
No, they do not. You promise? Yeah, they fill up your whole eye. Okay, great. Yeah, he just looks like...
01:32:36
Who does he look like? He looks like a young Al Bundy. But British and dead-eyed.
01:32:42
Yes. Doesn't he? Well, the eyes are wrong. Yeah. They're wrong. And there's weird space.
01:32:49
There's too much space on them. Yeah. It doesn't look like an alien was like, here's what human eyes are like.
01:32:54
Here. Let's try this. Try these. Also now, just as I scroll, of course, I scroll down.
01:32:59
And then there's just a bunch of other old black and white mug shots that are equally horrifyingly creepy.
01:33:04
So have a good sleep tonight. Okay, so Pitchfork also admits to exposing himself to over a thousand women from his early teens onward.
01:33:16
Jesus. Like he was a fucking sexual predator. Wow. He progressed to sexual assault and then murder.
01:33:24
He pleads guilty to the murder of 15-year-old Linda Mann and Dawn Ashworth's rape and murder
01:33:30
and is sentenced to life imprisonment, becoming the first criminal to be convicted of murder based on DNA evidence.
01:33:37
Wow. That's the fucking first case. You know how everyone's always like Googling that?
01:33:41
Here it is. Here you go. This is it. I wanted to say that. You throw down your paper like, there you go, motherfucker.
01:33:46
I was going to say that as the introduction to this, but then I was like, let's save it.
01:33:52
Good call. You know what I mean? Good call for storytelling. I'm a storyteller. It's my job somehow.
01:33:57
I don't know how that happened either. and you're welcome it's weird okay but alex jeffries our fucking good friend the dna dad
01:34:07
yeah um he becomes known as the father of genetic fingerprinting and in 1994 he's fucking knighted
01:34:16
for his services yeah he is for to science and technology in a psychiatric report about colin
01:34:21
pitchfork he said to have personality disorder of psychopathic type accompanied by serious
01:34:28
psychosexual pathology, which we're all like, yeah. And it's warned that Colin Pitchfork, quote, will obviously continue to.
01:34:42
Cut that whole thing out. Do not cut that out. I'm begging you, please. I am 100% not drunk.
01:34:50
I just want to go ahead. I mean, maybe I shouldn't say that because it makes it worse.
01:34:54
I feel like I'm just rusty. It's been so long since we've done this. It's been forever.
01:34:58
It's been forever. No, no, no. This is good. It's like that first show when we go back on tour after months off.
01:35:04
And we're all just like, what are we doing? How do we say things? Okay. Can't wait to see you, San Diego.
01:35:11
It's going to be great. Oh, no. Someone warns that, the psychiatrist warns that he will, quote,
01:35:17
obviously continue to be an extremely dangerous individual while the psychopathology continues.
01:35:24
Like, don't let him out, essentially, is what they're saying. Yes. So he's sentenced to life imprisonment, as I said.
01:35:29
But what that really means is that he has a minimum of 30 years. Right. Because it never fucking means life in prison, which everyone at the time is probably like,
01:35:38
yay, we can go home now and everything will be fine. Right. That 30 years is reduced to 28 years in 2009 for, quote, exceptional progress while in prison.
01:35:49
Right. He hasn't exposed himself to anybody in prison. So he must be fine. He's doing great.
01:35:54
Let's take two of those years off. Doing great. murderer in prison he is said to have been well behaved
01:36:00
has gotten a degree, and has become a specialist in the transcription of printed music into Braille.
01:36:07
So he's like, kind of becomes this artistic-y guy. Okay. Who gives a shit? In April of 2016, so 30 years, time is so funny in that it fucking goes by.
01:36:19
Yeah, it does. So what's 30 years, 30 years ago, is now. Is now. You can get out.
01:36:26
so in april 2016 he appears before the parole board they uh recommended that he be that he not
01:36:34
be released but that he be moved to an open prison so what the fuck's an open prison an open prison
01:36:42
is like basically what we would call minimum security but also you can't leave during the
01:36:47
day and go to the movies can you you absolutely can and guess who does colin pitchfork that's
01:36:54
right he's 58 years old now he's changed his name to thorpe so he gets to have anonymity that is a
01:37:00
good call i'm sorry yeah pitchfork is just like you're going straight to like the the canned ham
01:37:06
devil yeah but then he you know it's not fair because he gets to have anonymity yes you know
01:37:11
what i mean yes um so he is living in an open prison in glouches gloucheshire didn't look that
01:37:19
in a Gloucestershire Gloucestershire I believe that mine's a guess I think you're right okay
01:37:24
and he's been allowed alone on the streets for up to six hours at a time before being taken back to
01:37:30
prison he's been photographed and you can fucking see the photograph he looks like a 60 year old not
01:37:37
that old like a young because he's been indoors for so long dad okay he looks like not someone
01:37:42
you should be afraid of right um he's been photographed on a shopping trip in Bristol
01:37:48
city center browsing Bake Off books. Okay. Which is your favorite show. The Great British Bake Off?
01:37:54
I think that they have. Yeah. Yeah. Because remember he was a baker too. Yes, that's right.
01:37:58
He must love that show. Yeah. And eating, he was eating a pulled pork roll. He's having a great old
01:38:03
day. Sure. Acting like someone who hasn't killed two teenage girls brutally. Right. And exposed
01:38:08
himself to thousands. Right. He now has the right to unsupervised overnight stays in the community.
01:38:15
And they're doing this in a way to prepare him to get out soon. Right. So like he can go look for jobs.
01:38:21
He can prep, like find a place to live. He's there like prepping for him to fucking leave.
01:38:25
Okay. In a May, this last May of 2018, in a parole hearing was a parole hearing was due to take
01:38:32
place, but was canceled after a review of the case paperwork by the parole board.
01:38:36
The parole board probably read the fucking file. And we're like, oh, Jesus, I don't want him near my teenage daughters.
01:38:43
Yeah. Well, and also because that first time he got somebody to give blood in his.
01:38:48
Right. You can't act like this isn't somebody who is like not a mastermind murderer.
01:38:53
Totally. Who knows that if I'm good in prison, I'll be let out someday. Yes. When I'm young enough to continue killing.
01:38:59
I'm not like he's a feeble 90 something year old man. No, you're exactly right. He's like he's a legit psychopath who's like raring to go.
01:39:06
Yeah. Don't. I mean, I feel like people who who have admitted to being fucking psychopathic murderers and and and violent ones at that who have good have a completely perfect record should be like feared more than the ones who keep fucking up in prison.
01:39:22
It's like you're so good at controlling your craziness that you can do it for fucking 30 years.
01:39:28
Yes. And make people believe you. I just feel like people shouldn't get out until like you're saying they're feeble.
01:39:34
Yeah, essentially. And that they can't do anything. Right. Like why would you release a double murderer in like essentially the prime of his life Totally Yeah And let him change his name so he can be anonymous
01:39:49
Meanwhile, of course, the families of Linda and Don are fucking up in arms and so pissed off about this.
01:39:57
And they're, of course, doing all kinds of crazy petitions and everything. Linda's mother, Kath Eastwood, she's fucking pissed off and is fighting Colin Pitchfork being released.
01:40:08
She's pissed off because like the parole board wouldn't even let the victim's families speak to talk about what a piece of shit he is.
01:40:15
They just like let him go on fucking day trips. Right. They are fighting him being released or allowed back into the general public.
01:40:22
She said, Kath Eastwood said, you can say he is a well-behaved prisoner, but don't ever forget that he is a well-behaved double child killer.
01:40:31
Yes. Which Kath, yes. She and other family members of Linda and Don are working on petitions to fight Pitchfork ever being released.
01:40:39
But he does have another parole hearing coming up soon in the future. So the one that got canceled was because the parole board is like, no, we're not considering this.
01:40:47
Yeah, because I think that, you know, the public such an uproar. Right. Good. So there's a huge uproar about it.
01:40:53
And so it's been postponed, but it's going to happen again. Right. But yeah, that is the footpath murders, a.k.a. the first criminal to be convicted of murder based on DNA evidence ever.
01:41:05
Amazing. Yeah. Wow. Crazy. So crazy. We'll post a photo of him now so we can all keep an eye out.
01:41:12
Yeah. Watch out, England. Yeah. Oh, that's. Yeah, that's awful. I know. So creepy.
01:41:19
I feel like there's all those like we have now truth and sentencing laws, meaning a life sentence is a fucking life sentence.
01:41:27
But I don't think it I don't think it's proactive. Retroactive. Thank you. Backwards active.
01:41:35
That way. Yes. Right. Back there. Yeah. So whatever you got sentenced to when you were sentenced doesn't change.
01:41:43
It's just for people now, which is stupid and could not be true. I'm just saying that.
01:41:48
No, I get it. I mean, it's just that you just don't hear. And maybe it's just because it's not as big of a deal.
01:41:54
But it's like there's people who get arrested for dealing pot and they stay in jail for 10 years.
01:41:59
Yeah. Like all of these things. It's just and we have to say this last they just did sign in some huge legal reform bill.
01:42:08
That's like a big deal. It was actually bipartisan, which is unbelievable that anything bipartisan is happening in this country right now.
01:42:16
but like legal reform is definitely on the docket for a lot of people these days.
01:42:22
Thank God. Yeah. And that's just one of the things that has to be looked at. It's like,
01:42:25
there are people who are incarcerated for years and years who have like, uh, victimless crimes.
01:42:33
Yeah. And those people should be getting paroled and be putting into, be put into these,
01:42:38
um, like release programs, drug programs instead of prison time at all, all that stuff.
01:42:44
And then then there'll be plenty of room for double like for serial killers, double murderers, for people who plan, who don't see human life as valuable as their own and who do things for pleasure that are should absolutely not be happening.
01:43:00
Whose psychiatrist says he will do this again if he's let out. Of course he will do it again.
01:43:05
That's we've all learned that at this point. Everyone can sing along to that song.
01:43:09
And you know, even if he's a fucking upstanding citizen now, it you don't like well, those two girls, Linda and fucking Don don't get chances to be upstanding citizens don't get to go fucking do British bake off.
01:43:21
But the other thing that they never talk about is he not an upstanding citizen Yeah he an upstanding prisoner which means that he not shivving people left right and center Right That doesn mean he a good person Yeah He getting along to get to go along to get along
01:43:34
Yeah. He's making it work so he can get out. Yeah. He's doing what needs to get done.
01:43:38
Like you said, it's, it's, he's more devious. Yeah. It's scarier. He's a psychopath.
01:43:44
Yeah. He wants to murder people. Yeah. Oh, it's the potato claws, but with murder.
01:43:51
let's act like um murder is as bad as gaining weight let's do that let's culturally let's try
01:43:58
to like just get that going a little bit yeah we'll stop fat shaming and we'll have said murder
01:44:04
shame yes fat shaming body shaming can be finally put to an end right by all of us yeah and let's
01:44:11
get some murder shaming let's try that instead let's go on instagram and shave murderers and
01:44:16
comment on murderers Instagrams instead of on people who you look a little murdery in this
01:44:22
picture. Have you been murdering? Yeah. People. Um, cool. All right. Fucking hooray. It's fucking
01:44:33
hooray time. Do you have one? I do. Do you? I do. You want to go first? Do you want me to?
01:44:37
Is this now the fucking hooray challenge? Let's hit them at the same time. Ready?
01:44:42
You can go first. Okay. All right. Well, my okay, so okay. I don't know why I have to preface it with this. But
01:44:49
ever since we lost our house, when I was 16 years old at the bank, I've lived in apartments,
01:44:56
and rented and just kind of had that, you know, nomadic apartment lifestyle and thought I always
01:45:03
fucking would for the rest of my life and never even dreamed of anything else because it was
01:45:07
impossible right this podcast in so many ways has changed our fucking life and that includes the fact
01:45:14
that just a couple weeks ago we closed escrow vince and i on a house yeah and we're gonna be
01:45:21
homeowners for the first time and it's this gorgeous little bungalow that i the first two
01:45:27
times it was the first house we saw and after we looked around i started crying because i realized
01:45:34
that I could have it, you know? Yeah. And the second time I went there, I cried too.
01:45:39
It reminds me of my grandma's house, which was like kind of my safe haven in between all these things happening.
01:45:45
She died a few years ago. But I just, I can't believe it. I can't believe it. I'm, it just doesn't feel real.
01:45:52
And I love it so much and I'm so happy. And so thanks for helping me with that. Everyone.
01:46:01
Well, on behalf of everyone else, We say you're welcome. You deserve it. Thank you.
01:46:07
And yeah, it's so exciting. It's really crazy. It's really fucking. I just keep saying to Vince, we bought a house.
01:46:14
I mean, the bank owns it for the time being, but we bought a house. We have a home.
01:46:18
Yeah. Yeah. That's very cool. Really cool. And so there'll be a pod basement instead of a pod loft.
01:46:25
I ain't going into that basement. First of all, there's not supposed to be basements in California.
01:46:30
So something very strange has happened in that home. Absolutely. We're going to have to have a Ouija board seance.
01:46:35
Let's do it. Like on the first night. Okay. Oh, that's so awesome. Yeah. Thank you.
01:46:42
Okay. What's yours? Yeah. Well, I guess mine, my friend Ryan Sickler just started a brand new podcast called The Honeydew.
01:46:51
And the first episode came out. His co-host is Josh Adam Meyers. He's another comic who's really funny.
01:46:59
And so Ryan's old podcast is The Crab Feast. Oh, yeah, yeah. Ryan Sickler and Jay Larson hosted the Crab Feast for years It a great podcast There tons of hilarious people on it And I met those guys and did that podcast So anyway Ryan Sickler started the Honeydew podcast There one episode out
01:47:16
And it basically, he named it that because that's the most, the least popular fruit of anybody.
01:47:23
Like that's the fruit everybody leaves on their plate at restaurants. And that he basically is like, it's a podcast about coming on and talking about what, how you are Honeydew Melon in your life.
01:47:34
And basically telling like sad stories or stories of rejection or loss or disappointment or whatever.
01:47:41
And basically laughing about it because that's kind of all you can do. And he starts with his own story.
01:47:47
And I'm telling you, it is a fucking unbelievable. Like, I had no idea that's what his life was like growing up.
01:47:54
It was awful. And it's unbelievable because he's one of the best guys. Like, it's just unbelievable.
01:48:00
So if you're into that kind of comedy or you like he Ryan's done, he's got an album out.
01:48:07
He's done a bunch of stuff. But if you're a fan or you're looking for a new podcast with like a completely different flavor, I recommend it because it's really enjoyable and it's really good storytelling.
01:48:18
But it's also very poignant at the same time. It kind of blew my mind a little bit.
01:48:23
That sounds good. I am going to listen to it. I like fucked up stories. Yeah, just fucked up.
01:48:27
It's pretty fucked up. All right. Well, that's that then. Thanks for listening and happy 2019.
01:48:33
Let's fucking get through this year together. Yeah. Hope you guys have a great new year.
01:48:38
Yeah. And so much to come in 2019. The ball is rolling. Let's have fun. Yeah. Let's do it.
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