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00:01:48
hello hello and welcome to my favorite murder the podcast that's right the podcast that's true
00:02:10
crime it's comedy it's coming at you live from the exactly right studios here in downtown
00:02:17
glendale that's karen still that's georgia hartstark over there and listen look we're trying
00:02:28
uh we we've we're now fresh off of two back-to-back weeks of touring sure the guys in
00:02:36
deaf leopard are saying so what yeah fuck you child but they get whiskey all we get is fucking
00:02:41
chicken fingers and sparkling wine and that's if you're in a good spot and that's if you're if you
00:02:46
haven't drank all your drinks in the 90s which i did and get nothing now yeah i could i could do
00:02:54
touring for months at a time if i could just willy-nilly snort cocaine and ants sure and all
00:02:59
the things that those guys used to do do they snort ants you never heard that story of like
00:03:03
it was when ozzy osborne was on tour with i think motley crew yeah and at one point it might have
00:03:09
been ozfest or something but at one point they got off a bus and ozzy got down on the cement and
00:03:15
snorted up a line of ants. I feel like you only get so many snorts in your life.
00:03:19
So why waste it on fucking critters? Because maybe you're on a certain drug that makes critters seem so appealing.
00:03:26
And it makes it so fun. You want to just make your friends laugh. Yeah, that's it's she's just trying to impress Vince Neil.
00:03:31
Aren't we all? I mean, at the end of the day, that's all podcasts are. That's all any of us are doing.
00:03:37
It's like, look over here, Vince. NPR. We're on to you. Terry Glass. You know, that's who you want.
00:03:43
You know, you want him. We all do. Can I tell you a story, please, about my mom?
00:03:49
Yes. Janet. Janet. Janet would often text me things saying, you're on the front page of the Yahoo News.
00:03:59
Or recently she likes shit like that. And I go to Yahoo News and I'm like, what are you fucking like?
00:04:05
There's nothing. What are you talking about? I'd look for it and there's nothing.
00:04:08
Or she'd be like, you're everywhere. I saw your book on whatever the fuck. and then last week she
00:04:15
texted me, pigtails just the word pigtails you're everywhere so I was like, what the fuck are you talking about
00:04:23
and I finally talked to her and I think she doesn't remember the fact that she put my favorite
00:04:29
murder as a what is it called? a search item every time there's a news thing it comes up
00:04:36
so she just thinks that we're insanely famous and just keep coming up on her Yahoo News.
00:04:44
She thinks we're the front page of Google. Again? Georgia, so Pigtails is the MFM animated,
00:04:51
the new MFM animated. Our little girl with the gun and Nick Terry's beautiful animation.
00:04:59
Yeah, so she thinks that, she said, you're everywhere, Pigtails. I was like, what are you?
00:05:05
And there was like a thing I made fun of her about on stage about like pigtails and how she'd be mad at me.
00:05:10
It's like, oh shit, here it starts. But no, she's just going off those Google alerts.
00:05:15
And I just don't think she knows. So I'm going to let her. Just let her. And be like, yeah, if you don't want your name
00:05:21
in one of those alerts, Jan, you need to just tighten up your game. That's right.
00:05:26
Get a little more respectful. Can you please? Would you ever? How dare you? What have you been doing since you got home from tour?
00:05:35
Oh, I got foot surgery. Yeah. Oh, it was not what I expected. Turns out general anesthesia is not the same thing as local anesthesia.
00:05:47
No, it's the I would say in medical in the medical world, it's the opposite. But in general general sounds so chill It yeah it almost like anesthesia from three feet back Yeah it like you thinking it here it there you know general anesthesia you won feel it don worry about it that what i thought
00:06:05
it would be instead of night night night night yeah yeah you got night nighted out of there
00:06:10
and i got a tumor taken off my toe good that's good are you sure yes okay no regrets for that
00:06:17
i mean nashville i'm coming at you next next weekend georgia has a precious little boot one
00:06:23
cowboy boot and the other medical boot that's right yeah um what's up with you i'm glad that
00:06:30
you just got some business take care to me too i uh i had brilliantly made an appointment for
00:06:38
a two-hour massage for the day after we got back oh yeah why are you so smart i don't know
00:06:44
well but it's from the lady that you recommended from that whole place the facial and shit oh
00:06:50
Oh, that's like your place now. Trina, it's the spot. You know, sometimes when you get, I don't, when I have signed up for something, I just want it.
00:06:59
I don't want to talk about it. I don't want someone to ask me questions about all my feelings about.
00:07:04
You don't want to fill out a form between what parts of your body encircle? No. Weird shoulders and shit?
00:07:10
The answer is none of my business. I don't know. It all hurts me. Please solve it.
00:07:15
Yeah. You should know what parts hurt me by touching them. How about you dig in?
00:07:18
How do you get your fingers all warmed up and dig in? You tell me what parts I should be focusing on.
00:07:23
So we had a, what for me as a person who was looking forward to it for like 12 days,
00:07:30
was the longest interview process of talking about things. And you're like, is this part of the two hours?
00:07:36
Exactly. I was like, is this cutting, is this eating into my time? You're trying to burn off time at the top.
00:07:42
But how different do you think the massage would have been from her, from you having to fill out a fucking form,
00:07:47
which is stressful and not chill, which is not what you want in a massage. And just getting in there with her fingers.
00:07:53
Just digging in. Get me into that pan flute area. I don't want to talk to anybody ever.
00:08:00
Especially four minutes before I'm supposed to be in a relaxation city. Just let me go to there.
00:08:06
And if you leave anything out, you're not going to be fixed. I know. Okay. I do have to tell people I have epilepsy, though, because that would be a little shocker.
00:08:14
How annoying. But then it turned out, so does she. And then she had all kinds of recommendations.
00:08:19
And I was like, literally, we can do this anytime. Yeah. Lady, I'll take you to lunch.
00:08:23
Can you please just dig into my back now? So she does it. And afterwards, she told me that my back and neck are so tight.
00:08:34
She goes, your neck muscles wouldn't let me get in there at all. So like she couldn't even massage the muscles she needed to massage because there was muscles on top of those that were like no admittance.
00:08:45
She was doing like a skin massage. She was like, she was, she thought I was half robot.
00:08:51
She was, she seemed like she was on the verge of tears. She was telling me, I'm going to quit and go back to school for what?
00:08:58
For, for people who are this mentally ill, but they put everything into their back.
00:09:03
She was just like, how do you, there's lumps under that side. I'm like, yeah, I know that's my side.
00:09:08
Get around that. And then the other side's pretty much the same. It was hilarious.
00:09:13
But anyway, but here's what she, I thought you would be excited to hear. she was like do you ever take baths oh and i was like i really don't mostly because my bathtub is
00:09:23
old and i just picture no all the all the feet that have been it but she was like if you can start
00:09:29
taking baths and soaking in epsom salt just just like just to get the beginnings of the muscles
00:09:36
you have room in that backyard for a fucking above ground jacuzzi i have an in ground jacuzzi
00:09:42
Well, shit. I just never get into it. I didn't see it. I know. It's very subtle.
00:09:47
It's very subtle enough to decide. Oh, my God. How do you not go in that? I don't know, because then I'm like, then I'm going to smell like chlorine, and I don't
00:09:53
know. It seems weird. Like, I'm all by myself in the backyard. Yes. Smoking a cigar in the jacuzzi.
00:10:00
Yes. Karen, that's all anyone wants to see. Instagram that shit. Can they see? You are a jacuzzi influencer from now on, and I need it to happen.
00:10:10
I do want everyone to know that the Jacuzzi was invented by Roy Jacuzzi. And that's why it's called that.
00:10:16
Yes. Look it up. Roy might be the wrong name. I believe you. But yeah, that's a family name.
00:10:22
Jacuzzi. Isn't that hilarious? That's so cute. I know. I love that. I love a Jacuzzi.
00:10:27
I mean. Get your swim trunks. So when I was a kid and my dad, my parents divorced.
00:10:32
And so we had to go to my dad's house every other weekend to stay with him. And he stayed in these like divorced at apartment buildings that had a fucking pool and Jacuzzi,
00:10:39
which is the best. Yeah. So we'd always say, bring your swim trunks and let's go have a nice jacuzzi.
00:10:46
So now that I live in an apartment building that has a nice jacuzzi, I fucking go take a nice jacuzzi.
00:10:51
You're all about it. Dude, it's it's chill as fuck. Now, how are your swim trunks? Are they real small or are they like 60s style to the mean?
00:10:59
No, no, they're big and trunky. Suspenders involved? Always. Sure. Bring your swim trunks.
00:11:07
That's my dad calls them swim trunks, too. My dad made no adjustments raising two girls to any girl stuff at all.
00:11:14
The thought of saying like something that covers your boobs is just like too much.
00:11:18
No. No. No. Couldn't happen. No. Trunks. Trunks. It's trunks or nothing. Get out.
00:11:24
Don't go over nothing. That would definitely not be involved. The Jensen and Holes podcast is coming up.
00:11:31
Starting Monday. This Monday. It's not an April Fool's joke. It's fucking straight up real.
00:11:37
It's real. It's fucking crap. Dreams do come true for me and you. We are Paul Holes' boss.
00:11:45
Kind of. Don't worry about it. Sorry, Contra Costa County. You're out and we're in.
00:11:51
You couldn't keep him? We grabbed him. But we got him. Yeah. Yes Billy Jensen and Paul Holes have their brand new podcast The Murder Squad with Jensen and Holes starting Monday Days away Yeah
00:12:05
How many? Four days? Let's say four. Let's say it's four. It's not an April Fool's joke.
00:12:10
It's for real. It's true. We would never do that to you. Not about this. Not about this.
00:12:14
Not about these two. And we really have to, we need to sit for a moment and speak on the beautiful photograph they had taken of themselves for, it's so hilarious.
00:12:27
It's like they've been waiting all their lives to be podcast models. They're like, we know our pose.
00:12:31
Robin Vonswank, our friend who's a photographer, just take it. Yeah. Just take it.
00:12:36
How about you dim those lights in this fake murder squad desk area? And we'll look serious.
00:12:42
It's so, there's something for everyone. It's like the poetry girls can like Billy because he's the guy that looks like he's in a band.
00:12:50
Yep. And then the librarian girls can like Paul because he's the DNA scientist with a little something more to offer.
00:12:58
Yeah. And then the sleuths can help solve the crimes. That's right. You don't have to pick a boy.
00:13:03
Yeah. That's not necessary. We're not trying to objectify anyone here. You are? Yeah.
00:13:10
It might be too late. It wouldn't be the worst. With that. And they can have a minute of objectification.
00:13:15
They can have a touch of sexism. Look. And just be like, hey, it'll make you, it's better for your character.
00:13:19
It worked for us all these years in Hollywood. Yeah, show a little skin. Yeah. Billy.
00:13:24
Unbutton a third button. Billy. Come on. It'll make you just like more friendly.
00:13:29
Show a little skin. Can you both wear, it's fine if you wear your button down Oxford shirts, but how about you
00:13:35
both wear short shorts for this loose, gain five pounds in your beard. gain five pounds of beard and let's fucking and you'll look great beard yeah because you know like
00:13:46
it's like lose five pounds and it's like no get your beard yeah that's right no you're you're
00:13:50
saying this is what the new sexism sexism is yeah i love it where's your beard where i want you to
00:13:56
look like a bartender yeah or a mixologist can you not grow a beard oh sorry you didn't get the part
00:14:01
yeah go get a beard implant sorry we need you to be bald like uh jean-luc picard oh you can't be
00:14:07
bald well then i guess you don't get the part men goodbye men um do you have anything
00:14:15
um i got nothing girl i can't concentrate that janet thing was all i had i might have been saving
00:14:24
it it took me everything not to tell that to you at live the live shows last weekend
00:14:28
because you really you squirreled that one away i scrolled it away it's been hard
00:14:33
I don't know where we are I don't either I'm tired but also we had such a good time
00:14:42
we did Kansas City Des Moines and Omaha I almost said Ottawa I swear to God and the week before that we did
00:14:52
Pittsburgh we did Pittsburgh Cincinnati and Indianapolis so we're doing some you know touring we're doing touring it's like i'm tired and exhausted but like those cities were
00:15:08
so much fun to do and everyone was so incredible that back to back yeah each one like honestly we
00:15:14
were putting up um you know the social media posts of thank you but like there were so many good
00:15:19
like detailed things where i wanted to like each city could have gotten their own long 240 character
00:15:27
thank you because we had such a good time yeah and it was beautiful and all those theaters are
00:15:31
beautiful and filled. Yeah. Oh, this is just a, this is like a little piece of trivia that I know
00:15:38
for a fact my father would be love to hear. Uh, did I tell him? I'm not sure. But at our show in
00:15:45
Omaha, every seat was filled. I know. And apparently that doesn't happen. It sounds like,
00:15:50
oh yeah, of course, whatever. But it's very rare that every single person actually shows up and
00:15:56
fills their seat. As someone with annoyingly good vision who can see about 20 rows out. Yeah. I see
00:16:03
those. I see those four empty seats and wonder who got in a fight with whom or whose fucking car
00:16:08
broke down. Stuck in the elevator. I see it. And I think what happened to them or like, yeah. So
00:16:15
that actually is a big deal. And can we talk about you thinking that there was a real life cat in the
00:16:21
audience? Yes, that was great. What was that? Was that Kansas City? Yeah, that was amazing. I thought
00:16:28
this girl held up this life like, like for animal of Elvis and held it in a way that looked like
00:16:37
the way you hold a cat. Stephen knows. And and the it was a stuffed animal. But the way the animal
00:16:44
was shaped, it was hunched over her hand. So the second I looked over, she held it up and everyone
00:16:49
started clapping. It was a very like Lion King-esque moment. And Karen was like disgusted by it. And I
00:16:55
was like, what are you talking about? It's adorable. I was like, do not bring a cat into this situation.
00:17:01
They don't. Imagine the screaming. Like, all I could picture was that whoever's arm was holding
00:17:06
that cat was probably underneath covered in blood because that cat would have been scrambling to get
00:17:11
out of there at the applause part. It was a stuffed animal. And the whole time it was a stuffed animal.
00:17:17
And then in the meet and greet, we met the girl and she was saying, I dressed up as you.
00:17:21
We, the two women who were there said, we dressed up as you for Halloween. And the woman holding the cat, I keep wanting to say girl, holding the cat said, and I had this made so I could be like you.
00:17:33
And then she handed it to you. And Georgia said, thank you. And he grabbed it and hugged it.
00:17:40
And I watched the girl's face fall. Georgia was over the moon. And this girl was like, oh no.
00:17:46
And Karen goes, I don't think she's giving that to you. And I went, oh, God. Oh, God.
00:17:53
Oh, God. It was I had to step in only because that thing looked expensive It so expensive And she looked she was just like okay Like if somebody is going to take it what are you going to do
00:18:05
So I had to a little bit do that. I was so humiliating. But then I told my balloon story because it's the exact same thing of when I thought a girl was bringing me a bouquet of balloons after I recorded my album back in the green room.
00:18:20
But she was just the girl on the next show bringing some balloons for the show. what'd she say these aren't for you i i at like a insane prom queen turned her and went
00:18:30
oh thank you this big over the top like and she just pulled them back toward herself and went
00:18:38
these are mine yeah everything hurts all the time it all hurts i'm always wrong there's moments of
00:18:46
happiness in this life yes majority of it there's a lot of wrong awkward wrongness weird grabbing
00:18:52
at things that you don't like you don't want to go on the record as I tried to steal that girl's
00:18:56
cat but we all have those stories in that moment you just thought that was what was happening yeah
00:19:01
and you went with it yeah fuck everyone else and you know this is personal guess what we have
00:19:06
passions strong balloon cat passion I have the real Elvis and that's good enough for me but then
00:19:13
you would love a stuff I mean it was so real that I thought someone held up a real cat at a
00:19:19
at a comedy show it was probably like 500 as you said men's okay well i'm happy for her
00:19:26
well i hope she's happy i really hope she's happy i would like to special shout out okay because at
00:19:33
that same oh no sorry i was gonna say at that same show but that's not true at all it was days later
00:19:38
at the omaha show in the meet and greet we got to meet grandma cheryl these two girl women
00:19:47
young women brought their grandma. They went and got her, sprung her from the home on a Sunday
00:19:53
to bring her to the live My Favorite Murder podcast. Why you would do that to your grandmother, I don't know.
00:20:00
But they did it. And she was in the meet and greet, came around that corner. The girls explained.
00:20:06
We just got her. And then Grandma Cheryl looked at me and goes, I'm missing Sunday night.
00:20:10
Bingo for this. And I almost like ugly sobbed on her because she was a classic grandma.
00:20:19
And you go, you said, what do we owe you? A dollar 50? And she goes, actually, four dollars.
00:20:24
More like four. And I grabbed her hands and they felt like my grandma's hands. Yeah.
00:20:29
That's soft. She was wearing like a cardigan sweater that was a sweater my grandma had.
00:20:35
Yeah. For sure. It was just like, it was like going back in time. It was the most beautiful to those young women who brought Grandma Cheryl.
00:20:42
You brought us the best gift ever. And then they sent a picture on Twitter. And then afterwards, I said, Grandma Cheryl made me made us cry with joy.
00:20:52
And they said, she can't wait to tell all of her friends at the rest home about her evening.
00:20:58
I'm like, please leave some stuff out. Please don't tell all of them everything.
00:21:03
Grandma. It was beautiful. We had a great, great time. Yeah. It was really nice, cool town.
00:21:09
Every town. Yeah. Who knew Des Moines was like the fucking coolest town? Who knew?
00:21:14
I want to hang out there. I want to hang out there. Their shirts are great. Yeah.
00:21:18
They had some, they had a store, a local store called Rayground that was making SSDGM, like
00:21:24
stay at, it was get a job, buy your own shit, stay out of the cornfield. And they donated all the money from that too.
00:21:32
And the backlog was like $1,400. Yes. Fucking amazing. Yes. Like money where mouth is, et cetera.
00:21:38
Yes. They're doing it. That was the Des Moines murderinos. If they have a special name, we don't know what it is.
00:21:44
Sorry. But, but I mean, like so many people got those shirts. It was just, it was awesome.
00:21:50
We had a great time. Yeah. We're having fun. A couple more months to go. We're having fun.
00:21:56
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00:24:00
Who goes first based on what? Karen goes first based on Indianapolis. Boom. Wait.
00:24:06
Ow. Oh, okay. I'm fine. Are you okay? There's too many microphones. Wait, are we doing based on, okay, so what we played last week.
00:24:14
It's like based on what the audience knows, I think, right? Yeah. That's the best way to do it.
00:24:18
Okay. That's reality. Listen, look, we're just swimming. Now, it's interesting because this was one of the stories I wanted to do when we were in Cincinnati.
00:24:30
which was even further back, right? Was it? I don't fucking know. Cincinnati. Cincinnati was.
00:24:44
Yes. Yes. So I had this ready and then I was like, don't do this tonight. Because that would be bad.
00:24:52
It's the 1979 Cincinnati concert disaster. Oh no. Yes. yes now i'd heard of this only because as a child i watched the television show wkrp in cincinnati
00:25:05
yeah and they actually did an episode referencing it pulled from the headlines yeah or rips from
00:25:11
the head usually ripped slightly gently chugged gently um cut out with safety scissors from the
00:25:17
headlines um but so that's i knew the general concept of it but now i tell you what happy
00:25:26
Please do. Okay. It's September 1979. Here we are. Here we are. Jimmy Carter is the president.
00:25:33
Hi. There's an energy crisis. Everything is brown and velour and acoustic and smells like bad pot.
00:25:39
Turn your lights off. Turn your lava lamp on. Turn your lava lamp on. And your lights off.
00:25:46
And put your Fomalari's on and get ready. So, yeah, the children of today have to remember this is before, obviously, the Internet.
00:25:55
It's before everything to the point where at one point they're talking about the ticketing situation.
00:26:01
Oh, yeah. There's a company. Do you remember the company Ticketron? No. That was like the original.
00:26:07
Ticketmaster. Yes. Thank you. I would have never. Wow. I had half of it and I would have never been able to say that.
00:26:15
Ticketron. Ticketron. Ticketron. Ticketron. And the letters were in like digital number pieces.
00:26:24
Ticketron. Ticketron. Ticketron. Ticketron. Green pieces. Everything is robotic.
00:26:29
But nothing was robotic because you had to go up to a window and show up and be like,
00:26:32
yes, I'd like to go see The Who. I did that until like 2000 because it was cheaper. I'd go to a
00:26:37
window, buy tickets to whatever fucking shitty bands I wanted to see. Oh, is that how you do it
00:26:41
with like no fee or something? Yeah. Yeah. So apparently that was the only way you could do it. Ticketron style in the 70s.
00:26:49
I'm sure there are other ways. Please, I don't want to hear about that. We don't care.
00:26:53
I'm sure that you could call up on fucking Western Union and get your tickets. 888.
00:26:58
All these different. 888. You could go to Times Square somehow and get tickets anywhere.
00:27:04
You could show up at the concert. But we're just trying to let the young folks know what it used to be like.
00:27:10
Harder. It was walking. A lot more walking. That's why everybody's shoes were much thicker on the bottom.
00:27:17
That's not true. Okay, so the Who are on a world tour. It's December of 1979. The Who are on their world tour, and they land in Cincinnati, Ohio, to play the Riverfront Coliseum for December 3rd.
00:27:32
There are 18,348 tickets available. The show sells out entirely. Holy shit. Okay.
00:27:40
They're doing some My Favorite Murder numbers. No, they are not. Congratulations, The Who.
00:27:46
The Who? The Who. the majority of those tickets 14,770 of those tickets are sold as general admission for
00:27:57
10 bucks so you can go see the fucking who for $10 which in today's dollars is 100
00:28:05
100 and let's say it's 110 and 11 great 110 and 11 so but they called this the general admission
00:28:15
was festival seating which usually the term festival seating was used for outdoor concerts and like a like outdoor
00:28:26
arenas where you could there were no seats you'd be like yeah here's your ticket you go in it's
00:28:32
festival seating it's first come first serve okay but at the riverfront auditorium they did festival
00:28:37
seating and that meant that you would show up you would get let in and then you'd have to run
00:28:44
for your spot. Like a seat? Yes. So whether you wanted to sit or stand, like if you wanted to be
00:28:50
one of those people that was right up against the front, you had to get there early and you had to
00:28:54
run to the front. I don't want to do that. No, never. So this is problem A. Okay. And we're
00:29:03
going through the alphabet twice on this. No, not really. Also, the Riverfront Coliseum
00:29:10
was known for its lax security and safety standards, which I think is how everything was in the 70s.
00:29:17
But two years before, Led Zeppelin had played there. And about 1,000 people showed up without tickets,
00:29:25
and then they just gate crashed. They fucking attacked the ticket takers through bottles and garbage and the cops.
00:29:34
Shit. They threw cops? They threw cops at ticket takers. It's not right. just little cops though those little ones they basically were able to so a thousand people showed
00:29:50
up to do that 70 got arrested so 930 people got into that led zeppelin concert for free played shit yes it 10 bucks 1970s kids yeah but they didn have anything I get it I get it They just didn have anything So and basically it was that kind of thing where they knew they could do it
00:30:09
I mean, there was people that would just go up and push the ticket taker aside and run in.
00:30:12
And then like, you can't get caught. Yeah. Um, so knowing that that had already happened, um, and also a local radio station had announced that the general admission ticket holders were going to be let in at three.
00:30:26
Um, so all, basically there was the, the feeling was in the air and people started showing up for an eight o'clock concert, seven o'clock doors at 1230 in the afternoon.
00:30:36
Not taking a nap. Right. Well, they so they basically are there. Most of them are there for eight hours.
00:30:45
It's December in Ohio. No, no. So it's in like it's in the 30s that day. So it's like a rock and roll parking lot with snow.
00:30:56
Yeah, like freezing. And and basically people who are kind of like it's it's this this kind of ticketing where it's every man for himself.
00:31:07
Like it's, it's kind of like a black Friday feel where everyone's like, but the flat screen TV is just the wonderful sounds of Quadrophini and the who.
00:31:16
And the, and the housewife is the teenager who's hopped up on Natty light. Yeah, that's right.
00:31:22
And ready to roll. And, and, uh, black beauties and reds and all the things. Downers, poppers.
00:31:29
You used to be able to get all those pills in the back of Rolling Stone magazine.
00:31:32
You know that, right? Oh, yeah. You could like mail away for like bad speed, essentially.
00:31:38
Let's bring this time back. Okay. So about 1.30 in the afternoon, the head of rock promotion for Electric Factory, there's
00:31:48
a company called, it's a promotional company called Electric Factory. And this guy's named Cal Levy.
00:31:54
He sees that this crowd is gathering at the main entrance. He goes and asks the Riverfront Coliseum operations director, who's a guy named Richard Morgan,
00:32:03
to put some security guards out there and all the ramp entrances leading to the Coliseum's plaza.
00:32:10
And they also ask that the guards make sure only ticket holders come into that plaza.
00:32:16
They just don't want people like chilling out there. He also notices there's no police officers anywhere.
00:32:22
And so he asks Morgan to send, have some police sent to the venue. So by four o'clock, there's 25 police officers that are kind of manning the area.
00:32:32
and by six o'clock the crowd outside the coliseum is almost to 8 000 people holy shit yes and so
00:32:41
they i think there was another misunderstanding they were going to play quadrophenia the movie
00:32:45
quadrophenia before the concert as the instead of an opening act they were just going to play that
00:32:50
movie so everyone i think in the beginning thought it was going to be this like hangout chill
00:32:54
for hours beforehand but the doors wouldn't open and um there was something that was like
00:33:01
a miscommunication. So by 615, people are up, you know, day turns to night, the temperatures
00:33:07
are dropping. There's a wind chill factor coming off the Ohio river and wind chill. And these
00:33:13
people have been waiting some for eight hours to get in. So, um, so the crowd is, and the crowd is
00:33:19
thinking, expecting that all the doors in front of the venue are going to open. Um, so at 615,
00:33:26
the people in the back start pushing toward the front like and people are knocking and they're
00:33:31
like want they want the doors to open um and the people in the back don't realize yeah that what
00:33:38
they're doing to the people in the front okay this is one of my fucking nightmares and why i don't
00:33:44
leave the house if i don't have to right to get caught up in shit like this just to get caught up
00:33:48
and shit yes and this especially is like rough yeah okay it's bad and it's also that thing where
00:33:56
people wouldn't have done it right in the back had they known what was happening the whole thing was
00:34:01
a really bad miscommunication on all parts but it was like people left to their own devices like um
00:34:08
what is it called when a little fire thing happens and then the rest of it a little kindling oh yes
00:34:14
And they wouldn't. And it turns into something bigger because everyone's reacting to everyone else.
00:34:18
Yeah. And normally if they had known the situation, they would not have acted that way.
00:34:22
Right. And there was they were holding fast to some rules. So like at one point there.
00:34:28
So in that pushing, people are yelling, open the fucking doors. And they're going one, two, three, push and like moving the crowd.
00:34:35
It's like stuff like that. Yeah. So the guy that was in charge, Lieutenant Dale Menkhaus, who was basically the cop in charge of all the cops, he gets a hold of good old Richard Morgan and says, you have to start opening some of these doors so that this crowd can disperse a little bit.
00:34:53
But Morgan says, no, no one's getting in until soundcheck is over. And of course, soundcheck is late because the band is late.
00:35:01
So it's, you know, it's 630. the doors are supposed to open like general admission at 7
00:35:07
and they don't open at 7 because the band hasn't sound checked yet but people on the outside
00:35:13
nobody is explaining anything to anybody so when 7 passes then people are getting angry
00:35:19
and people are getting a little crazy there was actually the way everyone was jam packed together
00:35:25
and kind of the frenzy of the crowd there was a steam coming off of the crowd because it was so cold outside
00:35:31
there was all this heat Yeah I know So um so they not going to open the doors right until a sound check So at 705 they finally decide okay we should open some doors but they don open a bunch They just open two doors over on the right way over on the right So that means all the people that thought they were in the front that are in front of all the other doors see that now they in the back maybe because they not close to the far right doors And that when it gets up another notch So the push starts and now people are shoving toward that door even harder
00:36:12
And the other doors, so there's four doors open. Two of them are blocked by cops with billy clubs.
00:36:19
So they're trying to like somehow control. They think, I think, by only opening a couple doors, people are just going to go in calmly.
00:36:28
Well, even if that planned, there were too many people for that even to work at all anyway.
00:36:34
And then at 7.30, soundcheck starts. So they think the band is starting. Yes, they fucking think the concert's starting.
00:36:42
Shit. So they can hear it, and all of a sudden, the huge push happens. Oy, oy, oy.
00:36:48
Yeah. So there's a general admission ticket holder. There was an article that was written from the POV of this guy who was there that day.
00:36:56
His name is Richard Klopp. And he and his wife got there like little before three so that they could get their spot in line.
00:37:03
And he's big. He went to a lot of shows, big music fan. Okay. So he had actually written a letter to the Electric Factory, which is a promotional company, the Riverfront Coliseum, and to the city of Cincinnati, telling them that this whole thing of festival seating had to go.
00:37:19
because he'd been at enough shows where it had gotten all fucked up. Because it's just like a free-for-all.
00:37:24
Yes. Because there is a thing where it's like, you know, you have these two seats.
00:37:28
They're your seats. And you know they'll be there no matter what when you get in.
00:37:32
Yes. And so it doesn't matter when you come. Right. Like that's understandable. Yeah.
00:37:37
And if you bought a $10 ticket, but you know that if you can just run fast enough,
00:37:42
you have a front row ticket. Yeah. It's just, there's, it's like saying, it's like going, who's the biggest fan?
00:37:49
Yeah. And if you have people that get stuck in the back or they think they've figured out their spot and then they're there suddenly they're in the wrong spot.
00:37:56
I mean, that's how it's like the perfect storm of inciting people's. Yeah. Like anger and fury.
00:38:03
And and then not to mention people are on drugs or we decided we'd take some acid at four o'clock.
00:38:09
I mean, like who the fuck knows what's going on? So this guy, Richard Klopp, who is six foot two and weighs over 200 pounds, gets shoved to the ground.
00:38:18
and he is down there getting walked on and going, I can't believe this thing that I was writing a letter about is actually happening to me.
00:38:25
That truly terrifies me. It's horrifying. And he's separated from his wife. You know, this happened to me.
00:38:31
We went to see the Pogues. I was just talking to this with my friend Brian on Twitter on St. Patrick's Day.
00:38:38
We were talking about, I went to see the Pogues on St. Patrick's Day when I was a senior in high school.
00:38:43
and the opening act was Luca Bloom who was this awesome Irish acoustic singer-songwriter and then
00:38:50
the Pogues walk out and they fucking start off their concerts with If I Should Fall from Grace
00:38:56
with God which is this insane Irish like reel and I got sucked backwards into a mosh pit spun around
00:39:05
once and then thrown out to the side my feet were never on the ground I just got I was standing there
00:39:11
like yeah this thing's gonna and all of a sudden it was like i was in the washing machine my first
00:39:16
two concerts were at this fucking shitty uh divey place where there was a pit and yeah if you wanted
00:39:23
to watch the band you'd get sucked into it yes yeah that was just part of being in the front
00:39:28
right yeah and if you i mean i had no idea because i was like oh it's this irish music like my parents
00:39:33
like and i was like no no no there's some there's some angry fucking men who want to run around and
00:39:38
Just throw punches. Yeah. But also run around. I just didn't realize in such a tight group you could do that.
00:39:45
Yeah. And that was like part of it. It was insane. So anyway, he was basically he he and his wife were separated.
00:39:53
He smashed to the ground. He had injuries, but luckily he wasn't killed. So as he is, it's he's trying to get up.
00:40:01
He can see there's other people trying to get up and he can see there's people who are once they're up are trying to get up over the door.
00:40:08
doors to get away from, to get out of that crowd. That essentially it's like become this weird
00:40:14
machine. Yeah. And the people that are pushing and the people that are walking, no one knows
00:40:18
that people are on the ground being trampled. Yeah. Cause they're probably being like pushed
00:40:23
forward like a wave anyway. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And it's all, yeah, it becomes like, it's not about
00:40:28
your personal will. Right. Um, yeah. There were people who were there that said that they saw
00:40:34
bodies piling up by the doors. They saw people trying to get to their feet. They saw people
00:40:40
being swept just by the crowd. But no one really knew because basically, then once they were in,
00:40:46
everyone was running to get to the front. Yeah. And everybody was realizing, oh, that, you know,
00:40:51
like this, the concert hasn't started or whatever. So then it was kind of like, that basically the concert went on as planned. And everybody just went in and watched the Who play.
00:41:01
it's not until 7 45 that the police officers find the first dead body on the ground so it's because
00:41:09
also the police are around the back they're basically kind of on the outside of this thinking
00:41:14
that people are going to try to get in from other ways yes or like or they're just not they're
00:41:18
focusing on on like people being rowdy and making sure a riot doesn't start because that's essentially
00:41:23
what happened at that led zeppelin concert they they just want to make sure it's not a riot yeah
00:41:27
And so they're looking at the wrong thing and they don't, they not even noticing that there's people on the ground.
00:41:33
So, yeah, it's not until 754 that officers find the first body. Then they, so then now officials are starting to realize the severity of the situation.
00:41:44
They call for help. So then ambulances are brought in the fire department, more police, then reporters show up on the scene.
00:41:51
And so now we cut to a fancy restaurant in Cincinnati Why because what are we doing here this is the first day of the mayor It his first day on the job
00:42:05
Oh, shit. His name's Ken Blackwell. He's having dinner with House Speaker Tip O'Neill.
00:42:09
Oh. And he gets the call. The shit is going down at the Riverfront Coliseum. Like, bring a fucking telephone to his table.
00:42:16
Mayor? Sir? Mayor? Sir? This is the longest cord we could find. And yeah, so he has to go down there.
00:42:23
and basically they have to decide when he arrives they decide do we do we end this concert do we pull
00:42:30
the plug now um but he real he believes and the fire marshal agrees with him that if they then
00:42:37
pull the plug there will be a riot for sure so they let the concert go as planned so at 8 45
00:42:45
a promoter named Larry McGidd informs the Who's manager, Bill Kerbishley, that four concert goers are confirmed dead.
00:42:58
And he tells them there were two ODs and two crushed. That's the story. For some reason, the fire marshal was under the impression that there was a mass overdose
00:43:08
at the beginning of this concert. And they were like, people, I think, were trying to like,
00:43:12
Like, oh, they were partying and they were doing drugs and these rock and roll kids have done this to themselves.
00:43:18
That was what they were kind of trying to do. It sounds like at first. He quickly learns, though, that none of the deaths are drug induced.
00:43:25
They were all due to trampling and asphyxiation from being in that crowd. So when the set is over, Curvishly, the Who's manager, pulls them aside and says,
00:43:38
make your encore as short as possible because something has happened. So they basically go out, do their encore, get off stage.
00:43:45
And finally, once they come off from the encore, they're informed that 11 people have died.
00:43:51
11? 11 people were killed in that stampede. Wow. And another 26 were injured. So in the weeks following the concert, there were arguments over who was to blame.
00:44:02
The media reports pointed the finger at rock and roll culture, whatever, saying it was drugs, alcohol, and general rowdiness.
00:44:11
But the people at the concert were just like, no fucking way. They planned this so badly.
00:44:17
Everything about this was bad planning. And that idea of like holding the doors, that they were going to be able to control an 8,000 person crowd who were made to wait all day.
00:44:28
Totally. And not communicated with in any way. There was no safety setup or communication in any way.
00:44:35
so pete townsend is apparently in the subsequent shows they did pete townsend's visibly shaken
00:44:42
the only person who speaks on it is roger daltrey and he basically is says there are no words to say
00:44:49
how i feel i'm a parent i have a boy who's 15 i have two little girls and all i can say is i'm
00:44:55
sorry for what happened i mean you know they felt fucking terrible yeah um but i think there was also
00:45:02
that thing of like that they were just the the object of all of that and had nothing to do with
00:45:09
crowd control or the way the tickets were sold and the next night's show was in buffalo new york
00:45:15
and it was dedicated to those who died in cincinnati um safety measures that might have once
00:45:21
been considered unnecessary are now implemented like going forward immediately yeah that's great
00:45:27
So, of course, the families of the victims who were trampled sue the city of Cincinnati, the Who, and Electric Factory concerts.
00:45:39
And in 1983, all those suits were settled and the families of each of the deceased received a six-figure payout, which was something around $150,000 at the time.
00:45:50
And the people who were injured received smaller, although substantial, payouts as well.
00:45:57
And the mayor of Providence, Rhode Island, canceled the Who's performance that was later that month, December of 1979, despite the fact that Providence had only assigned seating and there was no chance that that could have happened.
00:46:11
Rhode Island is a very careful place. They just won't risk it. But this is what I love.
00:46:16
33 years later, the Who returned to Providence and honored the tickets from 1979.
00:46:22
So if you bought one and you didn't get to go, you could go for free that night.
00:46:27
Yes. That's beautiful. I know. Isn't that nice? And then on December 27th, so the same month that it happened, the city of Cincinnati banned
00:46:38
festival seating with very specific exceptions. And the ban stood for 25 years. It was repealed very controversially in 2004.
00:46:48
Yeah. Probably for fucking Justin Timber. I was going to say Lollapalooza. Oh, Lollapalooza starring Justin Timberlake.
00:46:57
Yeah. Sorry, Justin Timberlake. And then basically, because WKRP in Cincinnati was a sitcom about a radio station, obviously, in Cincinnati.
00:47:09
And they were all about, this was back before you had to pay for every needle drop on every TV show and all of those.
00:47:17
Every song you hear on TV shows now, people get paid for, and rightfully so. um but back then you know wkrp they played seely dan they played music throughout that show just in
00:47:29
the background yeah um and uh so so kind of almost like in with respect to that um they had this
00:47:38
episode which where basically a similar thing happens and it is it and they at the end of it
00:47:44
dedicate that episode to the victims of the 1979 Who Stampede. A very special episode.
00:47:54
Yeah. And there's a website I got a bunch of this information from, aside from Wikipedia,
00:48:00
there was a website called ultimateclassicrock.com that talked all about it and they did an article specifically about the WKRP episode
00:48:11
and I think you have to buy WKRP on DVD to watch any of it but I liked this quote
00:48:20
they said still because they were talking about how hard the balance of it it was a straight up sitcom and then they're dealing with a very special episode
00:48:27
but they did it perfectly they did stuff like that a lot and they were really good at it
00:48:31
but the quote is still if the in concert episode stands for nothing else it at least has the honor
00:48:37
of saying this 35 years ago when things got real right in the backyard of its fictional setting
00:48:43
wkrp in cincinnati did not flinch yeah and they really didn't and they the guy that wrote it had
00:48:49
to fight with um uh the showrunner about it and then they decided to do it and then the network
00:48:56
was like, we don't think we should do this. So the actual episode ended up airing February 11th, 1980.
00:49:03
So it was like two, you know, a month and a little later. In 2015, a memorial marker was finally placed outside the,
00:49:10
what's now called the U.S. Bank Arena for the victims whose lives were lost that night.
00:49:18
And it was paid for entirely by individual donations. So it was a crowd-sourced memorial.
00:49:26
And so the people who died in the stampede on December 3, 1979, are Walter Adams Jr., who was 22.
00:49:35
He was from Trotwood, Ohio. Peter Bose, who was 18, from Wyoming, Ohio. Connie Sue Burns, who was 21, from Miamisburg, Ohio.
00:49:44
Jacqueline Eckerle, who was 15, from Finneytown, Ohio. David Heck, who was 19, from Highland Heights, Kentucky.
00:49:52
Tiva Ray Ladd, who is 27 from Newtown, Ohio. Karen Morrison, who is 15 from Finneytown, Ohio.
00:49:59
Stephon Preston, who is 19 from Finneytown, Ohio. Phillip Snyder, who is 20 from Franklin, Ohio.
00:50:06
Brian Wagner, who is 17 from Fort Thomas, Kentucky. It's heartbreaking. James Warmoth, who is 21 from Franklin, Ohio.
00:50:15
Such little babies. They're all babies. Who just went to have fun. Yeah. I just think about how scary those last moments had to have been.
00:50:26
Like, I definitely, this is one of those ways that you think about dying. Yeah. If you're obsessed with that shit.
00:50:32
Well, and that idea that, like, because we've all seen, like, the Black Friday videos where if you go down in a crowd like that, the only way you come back up is if someone looks out for you.
00:50:43
It's a wave. And it's not even, I mean, it's not even everyone else's fault. It's this like wave of humans that have no control over that.
00:50:53
Right. Because they're being pushed to. Right. It's like that. Yeah. It's like, it's,
00:50:57
it's so awful. It's so it's worst case scenario. It's horrible. This is why I didn't want to do it on a live show,
00:51:04
but I did want to do it because it's like, yeah, it's one of those disasters. It's like the preventable.
00:51:09
And now they know that, you know, but those ways were like how preventable disasters,
00:51:14
how things, why things are the way they are. And like bad decisions based on money too.
00:51:20
Yeah. It's like just at that point, open the doors and let everyone in because it's dangerous
00:51:24
otherwise. Yeah. You know, and it's instead of the $10 you would have gotten from however many people
00:51:29
who didn't have tickets. It's like, you know, just let them in. Yeah. Because everyone needs help.
00:51:34
Right. And, and the idea that I think people understand now, it's like, if you're going to have a
00:51:39
concert with, you know, 18,000 people got to get some staff security. You can't have three people at the one doorway over on the right.
00:51:48
Like everything has to be prepped for safety first. Yeah. Which I think they know now.
00:51:53
It seems like that. But I just want to say I was nine at the time. And fucking no one gave a shit about safety when I was nine years old.
00:52:01
No, they didn't. They really didn't. Took a long time. Yeah. Well, that was amazing.
00:52:06
I mean, fuck, dude. Yeah. It's a heavy one, but I just was like, oh, it's such a, I wanted to do it that night so bad.
00:52:13
But I was also like, how awful would it be to sit in a theater and be like, uh-huh, what else happened the night that?
00:52:19
Name the people. Yeah. It's, it's, I guess it's the same thing with like the name of this podcast where I want to be, I want to be like, I love that stories like that.
00:52:28
Right. But really, I love them. It's like, it's my favorite because I hate it. Yes.
00:52:32
But I'm fascinated by that shit. Because also it's like, you're right. Those times that you're like, I don't like this feeling in this crowd.
00:52:40
I don't like, I need to get over to the side. and you think, oh, I'm crazy or I have this anxiety.
00:52:45
You're right. Because you shouldn't, you have to be careful in big crowds. You have to be careful.
00:52:51
And you can't just trust that everything's going to go great. No, I get, yeah, I get really freaked out in crowds like that.
00:52:57
Yeah. In any crowd. Watch your friends. Watch your back. Watch your friends back.
00:53:02
Watch your back's friends. Don't be afraid to walk into the concert a little bit late.
00:53:05
You heard that fucking song before? Oh my God. Don't worry. It sounds the same on a radio.
00:53:11
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Code FLOW15. It has to be told. Shutting down. Had to tell it. Shut down and rest and sit down and sink down and let me tell you a story.
00:55:24
I love it. Okay. So this is a story I found when I was searching for a story to do when we go to St. Louis.
00:55:33
Oh, okay. In the future. Yes. And I was like, well, this is incredible. I have to do it now.
00:55:37
How have I never heard of this? Okay. Wow. That's really saying something that you can't wait for the, okay.
00:55:44
It's like the opposite of yours. Yes. Okay. This is Glennon Engelman, the killer dentist.
00:55:50
What? That's right. So I found a lot of information from an Oxygen article. Remember FBI files?
00:55:58
I totally forgot about that. FBI files, an episode called Deadly Dentist. A show on ID, that show was called Deadly Dentists.
00:56:09
And the episode was called Concealed Abscess. I've had those. Oh, that reminds me.
00:56:17
I need to make an appointment. You got to go. Well, this will make you not want to go to a dentist anymore.
00:56:21
All right. Let me tell you about Glennon Engelman. He's born in St. Louis on the south side.
00:56:27
It's a blue collar working class neighborhood in 1927. One of four children. His dad's a railroad worker.
00:56:35
And then it says, and his wife. Because that's his mom. That's right. And his wife.
00:56:41
The wife was a wife and a mom. Yes. So Engelman. And a railroad engineer. That's right.
00:56:46
Don't worry about it. She made a mean pie. That's right. Engelman graduated from Washington University's dentist program in 1954.
00:56:55
He wasn't a great student. He did fine. I guess you can just pass dentist school without great grades.
00:57:01
Don't like that. Nope. It just sucks. I'd really like to only experience the best of the best when it comes to dentistry.
00:57:07
Especially in 1954 when shit was probably like fucking still medieval. That's right.
00:57:13
That was back before they hid the big needle behind their back. Do you like big needles?
00:57:17
I have one. Let's make these teeth out of fucking elephant tusks. Sorry, but it does remind me
00:57:25
because I was going to the dentist really regularly until this last season of Baskets and then everything
00:57:31
shut down. But I am going back next week. But I haven't seen my hot dentist in so long.
00:57:38
What if everything's different now between us? I know. What if he's not hot anymore?
00:57:41
What if his teeth got replaced by toenails? would you be stoked somewhere like he was became bewitched some for some reason little children's
00:57:54
toenails that's no it'd be the cruelest thing to do to a dentist who knew the importance of
00:58:00
hygiene it's almost impossible but that's gonna happen i'd say it's almost impossible almost but
00:58:08
never say never okay okay so glennon uh opens his own practice in his neighborhood where he grew up
00:58:14
St. Louis is Southside, as I said. And so everyone's like stoked that he's like sticking with the neighborhood.
00:58:20
He's like, you know, one of us and etc. And he also treats his poorest patients for free a lot of times.
00:58:26
So he's like generous and shit. However, don't like this guy yet. Because according to the book Appointment for Murder, the story of the killing dentist by Susan Crane Backos,
00:58:37
he was a rabid racist, anti-Semite and dabbled in the occult, mixing a voracious sexuality.
00:58:44
oh the last two i can deal with the other shit i don't like so his he his first marriage was to
00:58:52
a student teacher named edna ruth bullock and it lasted three years and after the divorce he
00:58:57
continued to give her money and and they still had sex and she also continued to see him for dental
00:59:03
care which is like pick one you know what i mean but he was so great at all of them he was just
00:59:07
great at all he was like mediocre at dental care but who else are you gonna go to that's right
00:59:11
and same with sex but look a lady doesn't have that much time he knows you you know what i mean
00:59:16
he knows your quirks you have to explain how you come to shit uh you don't have to explain why you need your arm up that certain angle all the time it's just
00:59:29
yeah it's just complicated um so his ex-wife ruth then marries a dude named james bullock
00:59:36
He's a 27-year-old clerk studying to be an accountant, and he's also one of Dr. Engelman's patients.
00:59:42
Okay. And then five and a half months after they get married, on December 17, 1958, James Bullock is fucking randomly shot dead by a sniper in front of the St. Louis Art Museum.
00:59:53
Oh, my God. But... Right Ruth collects in life insurance which is in today money Shit Half a mil
01:00:05
Half a mil. And the investigators are like, investigators? The investigators are like, this is suspicious.
01:00:12
And they look into Ruth's life. They discover that she has a wild side. She has exploits in local bars that are legendary, whatever the fuck that means.
01:00:22
If they can tell me about it, ask me about the rust again. I'll tell you. Stand on the bar and lift up your skirt.
01:00:29
You better have some exploits. So she sounds like a fun time gal. I bet she'd be awesome.
01:00:35
But they question her and then they're criticized by the harsh treatment of a grieving widow.
01:00:40
So they back off of her. But they also were suspicious of her ex-husband, Glennon, the dentist.
01:00:45
But he has an alibi for the murder. So the killing goes cold. five years later in 1963 glennon is now married to a librarian and he comes up with another get
01:00:56
rich quick scheme he opens a drag racing strip cool which was all the rage back then yes yes
01:01:03
so a dude named eric fray uh who had recently married one of glennon's former girlfriends
01:01:09
becomes a partner in the business he's like drag racing let me get in on this let's do this let's
01:01:13
do it but on september 26 1963 as eric frey is helping dr engelman with construction at the site
01:01:20
frey somehow finds himself struck in the head with a rock and at the bottom of a well that also
01:01:27
happened to be uh happened to contain a large amount of dynamite and then the whole fucking
01:01:31
thing exploded what it's a freak accident what no it's not wait how do you first of all this is starting to sound familiar
01:01:43
really did I get this already I don't know well the dynamite the dynamite there's always dynamite
01:01:49
you've done this before are you serious I just was trying to find the same who did it me or Georgia
01:01:56
was Pam Huff I was Pam Huff so then it must have been I was like this sounded really familiar
01:02:06
I'm trying to find emails from like 20. This was 20. When was this? This was like shaking.
01:02:14
God damn it. December 8th, 2017. Oh yeah. I mean, it's two years ago. How am I supposed to go on?
01:02:24
No. Yes. Go on. No, I'm not going to. Why not? Oh Jesus. You think anyone remembers my version of this fucking shit?
01:02:31
We have to leave all of this. We never released an episode. We did never release it.
01:02:36
It was never released. Oh, oh, then we're fine. Please leave us in. Yeah. Okay. Wait,
01:02:42
that's, I feel like you buried the lead on that. We never released the episode should have come out of your mouth.
01:02:48
Oh my God. No, it's insane. I was like trying to go through. How do we know? Listen,
01:02:53
we need to attack Stephen a little bit more before we get back. How did you not know earlier today?
01:02:58
Why didn't you tell her the second? Here's what I love. You said it's a killer dentist.
01:03:06
And then somebody got thrown into a well with dynamite. And I still was like, I don't know.
01:03:11
It's now coming back to me. I now vaguely remember you telling me this story. But why wouldn't I immediately be like, because it's so being on stage, there's so much adrenaline.
01:03:22
And then you go on and you leave. But this, this was for this was a St. Louis one.
01:03:26
Yeah. Okay. First time we were in St. Louis. Shit. But no one knows except for us.
01:03:31
And now everybody's listening. Like, this is fresh to them. Okay, great. and the people wait do we perform it in st louis but just not release that episode yes got it so
01:03:42
when we go to st louis in like three weeks oh they're gonna be mad at us i gotta bring it with
01:03:48
a good one yeah all right that's fun though because then they'll be like i remember when
01:03:52
this and that yeah don't do it in three years we're creating memories let me tell you some
01:03:56
brand new shit okay please do you blew up but wait a second we've been waiting for this moment
01:04:04
yes we have we've been waiting for this moment either for us to do the same one which is way
01:04:08
less likely than for us to redo a fucking story yes the amount of stories we've done live yeah
01:04:14
is vast and incredible expansive it's it's almost like hey look listen we're gonna run out of
01:04:23
murderers one day no we're not no that's never gonna happen uh but i was like this story is
01:04:30
fascinating how am i gonna not do this it's so good okay well tell me what you remember from this
01:04:34
i definitely remember the well with the dynamite the well and dynamite how could you forget
01:04:39
the death is ruled accidental uh dr glennan sorry that alone yeah yeah it's it's ruled accidental
01:04:47
he fell into a well after his head got hit full filled with dynamite right you know how you do
01:04:52
sometimes at a racetrack yes it happens yeah they could be hot dogs it could be dynamite
01:04:57
this guy got unlucky do you want to get a stick of dynamite in a hot dog bun because there's that
01:05:01
you could have that too is this fucking uh tom and jerry or what wait can i just say this sorry
01:05:06
this is a legit sidebar okay but that last pretzel i ordered when we were on the road
01:05:12
i just need to talk about it because i actually in omaha i texted adrian because it was so good
01:05:17
in omaha you got a last pretzel she i ordered pretzel and there was a sauce that was guinness
01:05:25
cheese mustard sauce. Stop it. Did you take a shot of it? It was. Yeah, I drank it.
01:05:30
I chugged it and then just ate the pretzel afterwards. No, it was the most delicious thing.
01:05:36
God bless pretzels. All right. Sorry. Well, let me tell you about Dr. Glennon. He collected an insurance settlement from his business partner because his business partner
01:05:47
just accidentally died in a fucking well with dynamite. And he was somehow on the thing.
01:05:51
Well, he was his business partner. So he collected the money with his ex who happened to be Frey widow And he gave uh he gave her She put 16 of that into the drag racing strip
01:06:08
Yeah. Remember this? I sure do. This is just a reminder, but it went bankrupt in 1964.
01:06:13
Yep. Yeah. I like the idea that this is all a very like, this is what the pink ladies did after high school is what it feels like to me.
01:06:21
You can't don't trust Dennis. I got it. I want to date a doctor or a dentist, but then I got to stay in the drag racing arena.
01:06:29
It's still cool and hip. He wears a leather jacket. Yeah. Okay. A decade passes, as you know, from the research you did for this story.
01:06:37
I know nothing. Do you remember that he had a 24-year-old dental assistant named Carmen Miranda?
01:06:43
I didn't remember that her name was Carmen Miranda. Her name was Carmen Miranda.
01:06:47
The doctor who's older had known Carmen Miranda since she was a child. and she's like, look, doctor, I don't know what to do.
01:06:54
I am having some financial difficulties. And he's like, here's an idea. Why don't you marry someone,
01:06:59
take out a life insurance policy on him and I'll kill him for you. And she's like, great, let's do it.
01:07:06
Really? Just right out there in the open. Not right, like right. The slow play, but eventually, yeah.
01:07:12
Exactly. But he'd known her since she was a child. She's 24, he's older. He's probably manipulating her in a lot of ways.
01:07:19
and he said he knew it would work because he's done it before. Right. Remember old fucking dynamite friend.
01:07:27
Yeah, it did work that time. It did. So she agrees and they find a dude named Peter Holm
01:07:32
and she marries him and almost a year later after they got married on September 5th, 1976,
01:07:37
Miranda, Carmen Miranda, lures Holm to a secluded location near Pacific, Missouri
01:07:44
and she stands next to him as fucking Engelman shoots him with a rifle in the fucking head.
01:07:51
Whoa. And then she takes off running. How awful. So the grieving widow, Carmen Miranda,
01:07:57
ends up with $75,000 in life insurance, and she pays around $10,000 to her boss, Dr. Engelman.
01:08:05
Wow. So. Do you remember any of this? No. I'm shocked about the Carmen Miranda detail not sticking.
01:08:13
Where in the world did that bit of information go? I think it was replaced when I watched all of The Sopranos.
01:08:21
Oh, right. Okay, good. So, 1977, this Arthur Guzwell, he's 61, and his 55-year-old wife, Vernita,
01:08:30
they have what seems like a breaking and entering burglary situation where they're shot and killed at their farmhouse near Edwardsville, Illinois.
01:08:42
boy the cops think it's a home invasion robbery and their grieving son ronald was the sole heir
01:08:48
to their to his parents oil business and inherited a quarter of a million dollars okay which in 1977
01:08:53
money is seven hundred thousand dollars great i don't know see you tell me it's probably a lot
01:09:01
it's probably a ton actually i would say it's two million two million i bet it's two million
01:09:04
that's a lot of money yeah 17 months later on march in march 1979 when ronald goosewell was
01:09:11
He's shot and bludgeoned with a sledgehammer at his home. So he's the fucking heir to the fortune.
01:09:16
And then he's killed. And then he's killed. His new wife, Barbara Gooswell Boyle, collects approximately $340,000 in life insurance.
01:09:26
His body is found four days later after his murder in a car in an East St. Louis motel.
01:09:33
Is it a car motel? No. his body is found four days after his murder in a car at an east st louis motel and police go
01:09:42
to his home to tell his grieving wife barbara and she is uh hosing out the garage which what later
01:09:50
turns out to be blood quote everywhere oh no guess what she used to date dr uh our friend dr glennon
01:09:58
Wow. Yeah. So the next victim is Sophie Marie Barrera. She's 59 years old. She owned a dental
01:10:06
lab and she had done some work for Dr. Glennon and he owed her $14,500 and she was threatening
01:10:15
to take him to court. So he did the rational thing and blew her fucking car up while she was in it.
01:10:20
That's right. You remember that? Jesus. This thing is, this is a, if you made a TV movie of it,
01:10:28
no one would watch it because it makes no sup oh you want to bet oh really oh it crappens
01:10:33
um so in january 1980 sophie's car explodes as she starts it killing her so police are like
01:10:40
all right it's this fucking dude but there was also a lot of mob activity going around then so
01:10:45
it kind of got lost in that but police are connecting the dots um and they were sure that
01:10:50
dr engelman was behind these killings so uh then his third wife also named marieff comes forward and
01:10:56
she's like i'm a little freaked out because i've been hearing some rumors that he's trying to put a
01:11:00
hit on me and he he told me some shit when i'm like in post-coital and they were like great will
01:11:07
you wear a wire and she was like absolutely so uh in 1984 she wears a wire he can he tells her
01:11:13
everything don't do that yeah really so in 1984 uh barbara boyle is charged with her husband's
01:11:22
killing the one who was the heir to the shit she's arrested and um a month later dr engelman
01:11:29
is finally arrested as is carmen miranda and their two accomplices who's miranda's brother nick and
01:11:36
a man named robert handy so miranda testifies against dr glennon in his trial for ham holmes
01:11:43
murder and that gets a guilty verdict and a 50-year sentence and uh later his trial for
01:11:49
Barrera's bombing gets him life. So, in an attempt to bargain for leniency, the accomplice, Robert Handy,
01:12:00
There's police details about the Goosewells murder. They're the home invasion robbery older couple.
01:12:04
And so he said that Engelman and Barbara Boyle, the wife of the son, had been lovers and they had targeted Ronald because of his money.
01:12:13
So like she married him to kill his parents and him. God damn. Yeah. I feel like that is I'm remembering something about that.
01:12:26
The guy she married was kind of a bore. or like there was like a little bit of like a thing about him where everyone was like you're
01:12:33
marrying this guy probably there was a little bit of that yeah could that could just be me judging
01:12:38
him though there was a lot i mean all these uh marriages that ended in the husband being killed
01:12:44
were like just a plan for that yeah so it could have been anyone just someone you can convince to
01:12:50
marry you isn't dating hard enough about thinking what if someone's just setting me up for life and
01:12:55
yes oh another thing i have to worry about i have a good relationship and every once in a while i'm
01:13:02
like did he put poison in this tea you're like wait a second i just got a geico update yeah what
01:13:07
are you doing why i don't even drink tea pince knows that i don't like geckos why do we i don't
01:13:13
like geckos i don't like fucking chamomile get this shit away from being poisoned and i don't
01:13:18
like you killing me so for money great you can kill me for passion reasons that's a compliment
01:13:23
The money thing is cold. It really hurts my feelings. So, okay. In 1985, he, in order to strike a deal and avoid the death penalty, Dr. Ingeman pleads
01:13:37
guilty to all three murders and is sentenced to three concurrent life sentences.
01:13:42
When he confesses, he says, quote, I like to kill. It sets a man apart from his fellow man if he can kill.
01:13:49
No, it doesn't. No, it doesn't. Being a good dentist sets you apart. Yeah. that's more so than killing people how about you are a decent human being that doesn't fuck
01:13:57
every woman that passes your dental practice don't like every woman don't fucking manipulate
01:14:02
them into killing people don't you don't need the money that's what's so weird about it too
01:14:06
is like everyone's like he's not doing it for money because he has a successful practice
01:14:11
yes he's doing it because he's a fucking weirdo sports killer well and also because he feels i
01:14:16
think it's actually kind of sad where he's like this is what sets me apart yeah not my interesting
01:14:21
hair or my brain killing people right not my interest in a cult and and blatant anti-semitism
01:14:28
killing people my anti-semitism isn't setting me apart the way i thought it would i'm going to go
01:14:33
ahead and go all the way into killing people i mean just change some crowns is that a thing i
01:14:39
don't know i think it is changing crown change them around change them up um so as for barbara
01:14:45
she's convicted of ronald's murder her heir to the throne husband right um but with help from her
01:14:53
attorney f lee bailey yeah that guy favorite dick lick motherfucker he's a super champion he sure is
01:15:00
she's cleared of the murder of his parents wow and she gets 50 years but serves less than half
01:15:06
that time and is freed in 2009 at the age of 67 and then she's like i'm gonna spend this money
01:15:12
Later days, motherfucker. She's like, give me that money. Give me that money. Did she get any of it, I wonder?
01:15:17
I bet she didn't. No, right. Yeah. It probably went to like a niece. Only fair. Yeah.
01:15:23
Only fair. Like a poor and sweet niece who's like, okay. Okay, I guess I'll get all the roller skates I want.
01:15:28
Yeah, and I'm going to rescue kittens. Aw. Aw. She's such a good person. Then she wastes it all on cats.
01:15:36
Hey. Just waste it. It's not a waste. It's for a cat. Okay. Here we go. In 1996, a B movie called The Dentist.
01:15:46
Yes. Was made that loosely is loosely based on the case. Dr. Engelman is played by Corbin Bernson.
01:15:53
Yes. Okay. We talked about this part. Okay. What? Tell me. He's from LA law. Yeah.
01:15:57
And I was like, oh yeah. I was like, what is he from? And you're like, LA law. At this moment right now we could be dead And this is just like life replaying itself in that weird way I absolutely believe that Yeah And I went under general anesthesia yesterday
01:16:17
Am I awake yet? Could be you're still sleeping. I don't know. Are you awake? When you wake up, you're like, oh, I dreamed it.
01:16:23
We recorded already. Now we haven't. Oh, shit. I should do the dentist, the killer dentist.
01:16:27
No, I'm going to. Maybe you're still getting a massage. Oh, could you? Can I just say that I fell asleep?
01:16:32
They said, she was like, all right, Karen, get up when you want to. You know, when it's over.
01:16:38
And I was like, okay, sounds good. And then I just put my face back in the ring and went back to sleep for I don't know how long.
01:16:43
They let me stay in there. I mean, it wasn't that long. That's amazing. But I mean, I was out, like had a short dream and then was like, whoa, whoa, I'm still here.
01:16:51
I woke myself up with a loud snore on the plane. Right home from Omaha. A snort.
01:16:57
I didn't hear it. You didn't? because I had my eye mask on and I went literally.
01:17:04
And then I immediately started cracking up. I went. It was like so insane. I missed that.
01:17:12
Well, I had my earplugs in there. And it wasn't that loud then. But I absolutely.
01:17:17
I did that and then just started laughing. Yes. We're doing great. We're doing it and we're still doing it.
01:17:23
Hey, let's talk about two years later from the dentist and talk about the dentist too.
01:17:28
Oh, brace yourself. Oh, we have talked about this, but let's talk about it again.
01:17:34
What did we say? Well, I just remembered that there was a sequel. How do I not remember this?
01:17:40
Was I drinking? No, I think it was just that we've done this a lot. Okay, let me hear something new.
01:17:48
So I went to my favorite murder Gmail to look for hometowns. And Amy said, in the 70s, my dad had a plant store in the then dodgy part of St. Louis called Compton Heights.
01:18:01
He was, parentheses, is a big old stoner. So he spent a lot of time smoking outside the shop, which is how he became acquainted with the dentist who owned the shop next door.
01:18:11
Also possibly why his shop didn't last long. But I digress. at the time the dentist glennon engelman uh had an assistant named i shit you not carmen miranda
01:18:21
who had married an older guy who shortly thereafter wound up shot in the back of the head
01:18:26
after having recently taken out a very high insurance policy at miranda's suggestion
01:18:30
my dad says engelman was the most terrifying person he'd ever met from the time he'd come
01:18:35
flying into my dad's shop in a rage literally foaming at the mouth shouting about whatever
01:18:40
Super scary dude. And then Kevin said, my mom grew up in South St. Louis County.
01:18:48
My mom and her sister began working from an early age to help make ends meet. My mom landed a job as a hostess at a South County restaurant that had many loyal customers
01:18:56
who ate there daily and knew the workers pretty well. She still gets recognized today by folks who went there in the 80s.
01:19:02
One of these regular customers was a local dentist who was charismatic, but odd.
01:19:07
he once lectured my mom about respecting the history of coins then kevin wrote strike one
01:19:13
and was generally a difficult person to serve strike two and yes i bet yeah he gave off a
01:19:19
typical eclectic rich man vibes so most servers hosts will know the type of guy we're dealing
01:19:24
with here one day this dentist came into the restaurant saw my mom the hostess puffy faced
01:19:29
and crying he asked her why she was so upset and she told him that she was worried about her mother
01:19:33
after a car exploded that day near the Southside National Bank, where she worked as a housekeeper.
01:19:39
It was the 80s. There was a spike of mob crime, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. The dentist told her that her mom should be safe
01:19:46
because the car wasn't close enough to do any real damage to the bank. He then reassured her that everything was okay,
01:19:51
ate his meal, and went his way. My mom later found out from the local news that the man in the restaurant, Dr. Glennon Ingleman,
01:19:57
was a dentist by day and a hitman serial killer by night. So basically, my mother was consoled about the car explosion by the very serial killer
01:20:06
who rigged the car to blow up in the first place. Holy shit. So he walks in, she's crying, and he's like, your mom's fine.
01:20:12
No, don't worry about it. She wasn't the target. Yeah no Don worry about it at all Okay so Dr Engelman was 71 when he died of complications with diabetes in 1999 at the Jefferson City Correctional Center as you know since you researched this
01:20:27
That's the part that stayed with me most. He had been diagnosed as a sociopath while locked up, and it was reported his IQ was near 140, which is high.
01:20:38
He showed no remorse for anything. Of course not. His killing spree lasted for 30 years from 1958 to 1980.
01:20:46
And altogether, he's suspected in 12 killings. Jesus. But if it hadn't been for his brave third ex-wife, Ruth Jolly, with whom he had a son,
01:20:56
it could have been many fucking more. That's right. And that is the second time we are telling the story of Glennon Ingleman, the killer dentist.
01:21:04
Second time, but only first on wide scale. Right. First time was a select audience.
01:21:09
We did a test audience. in St. Louis. We tested it. They were like, it's fine. We're not going to remember
01:21:15
it. It's not. Nobody's marking down any of these moments. Wait, there's canned wine
01:21:19
for sale in the lobby. Let's party. Let's get another canned wine. We've been pre-gaming
01:21:23
with the Murderinos. We raised money. Let's game. Then let's post-game. That's right.
01:21:27
Let's drink the whole time. I think that was great. Thank you. I'd love to go back to the part
01:21:33
about falling into a well filled with TNT. The part is, don't do it. Yeah, do your best not to.
01:21:39
But if someone hits you in the head with a rock, what are you going to do? You got to do what you got to do.
01:21:44
Fucking dentist, man. You said it. Don't go back to your dentist. No, do it. And then all my teeth just start falling out slowly as we talk.
01:21:52
Why do you have children's toenails in your mouth instead of teeth? Is that the new thing?
01:21:58
Children's toenails. I don't know why. Teeth clear? Is it what you think of when you look at my teeth?
01:22:02
No. Oh, that's like a diseased child's foot. It's like the thing that's closest, but like clearly not.
01:22:08
and you're like, why does that look... Oh, God! Oh, no! It's child toes and an adult mouth.
01:22:14
That's awful. That's, uh... We gotta tell Guillermo del Toro about that idea. Yeah!
01:22:23
Yeah, yeah! Fucking hooray! My fucking hooray is that. Then it's over? Do you have a fucking hooray?
01:22:32
Um, I may have mistakenly done my fucking hooray of talking about my two-hour massage at the top,
01:22:37
But you know what it is? Here's what my fucking hooray will be. First of all, and this is going to sound super corny and cheesy, but we had in that last weekend of shows, the most fun talking to people at the meet and greets to the point where a couple times Vince had to say, hey, look, the line, we still have a whole line of people.
01:22:57
You guys have to move it along. Yeah. Because we love the conversations that we have with people and talking to people and just like connecting with people.
01:23:06
so we oftentimes will complain about like being tired or complain like that we're doing a bunch
01:23:11
of stuff but to me i would say my fucking hurry is those people people that come and say hi or that
01:23:18
you know that are at the meet and greet that come around that corner and they tell us really private
01:23:23
things or uh or they just tell us what about those women who were like we all met at the
01:23:29
chicago show at the red vick like three years prior yeah they were standing in line by each
01:23:35
other to get into the Chicago show. They're still friends to this day. What was that at the Kansas
01:23:40
city show? I think they showed up as a foursome going, we met in line and now we're all still
01:23:46
great friends. Like we have these kind of peak experiences that we're having so many of them.
01:23:51
It's hard to appreciate them. Start a process right now. Yeah. Cause we're in the middle of
01:23:57
it and we can't stop. We have to keep going forward. And if we think about it too much,
01:24:00
it's it's a lot it's a lot process but it's a series of grandma sheryls and it's a series of
01:24:07
the women from the chicago who met in line at chicago and are still friends to this day and
01:24:12
the women who come and the women who come by themselves to the live shows yes can i i'm gonna
01:24:16
jump on your do it van raggen get into it i i was thinking about it recently about how
01:24:21
hard 27 was for me and 28 and 29 and 30 and 31 and how it took me a while and i didn you know I didn have a lot of friends and you kind of like you need these a community and you don have one I was like post breakup and shit and uh and
01:24:39
it's the murderino community is this community that I wish I had had then yeah and instead of
01:24:46
being bummed about not having that I'm just so happy that we've made this and they've made this
01:24:51
thing that they can have now. And I think, I mean, I would have benefited so much from it.
01:24:56
And so I'm benefiting in a different way, but I'm just so happy it exists. It's amazing. And to kind of see it in real life, like that's all it sounds,
01:25:05
it's stuff that like you can't believe until someone's telling you to your face.
01:25:11
Our friend that we saw in Omaha, who the first time we met her was in a meet and greet,
01:25:16
and she was about to get the first of many brain surgeries and when we met her she was at the
01:25:22
beginning of that road and we just saw her again in omaha and she looked like a different person
01:25:27
yeah and she was like i got a couple more left but i'm doing great and like i was just laying
01:25:33
there listening to you guys like we get to hear stories like that that are genuinely um amazing
01:25:39
huge compliments but like it's just big stuff yeah and it there's a bunch of them in a row and
01:25:48
then we all go home and go to sleep and complain about being tired when really what we want to do
01:25:52
is tell you every single one of these stories because they're each one is is amazing and if
01:25:58
we really processed it we would just be bawling the whole time because it's huge it's incredible
01:26:03
It's unexpected as fuck. And it's incredible. Like, we're so grateful. Yeah. We can't believe this is our lives.
01:26:10
I know. And each one is even like when people come up and go, I don't know what to say to you.
01:26:14
And I didn't bring you anything. And we're like, we know, we get it. We love it.
01:26:17
And we take a picture and then they walk away. It's equally as exciting for us because we can't believe that we get to even have a meet
01:26:24
and greet. Yeah. So, yeah, I guess we get to share a fucking hooray, which is fucking hooray for the audience
01:26:33
that listens to this show and decides to participate so much with us and with each other.
01:26:38
Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. We're happy to be part of it. Yeah. Thanks, you guys.
01:26:42
Thanks, you guys. Thanks for that special episode. My face. What a mess. What a gorgeous disaster.
01:26:52
What a glorious mess we've made of ourselves. Oh, I love it. Love it. Stay sexy.
01:26:59
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