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Throw up on it. It's got two settings. Okay, cool. Can you see me? I can. Can you see me?
00:02:26
Right down the galley. Right down the gauntlet. Let's keep eye contact this entire episode.
00:02:31
Okay. Hello. Hello. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. It's a true crime comedy podcast.
00:02:39
That's right. You've been waiting for since last Wednesday. That's Karen Kilgariff.
00:02:44
Tuesday, Thursday, Thursday. That's Georgia Heartstruck. We don't know what day it is.
00:02:49
It doesn't matter what day it is. We've told you already. stop being superficial today oh you love wednesday oh i love calendars look at me mark my calendar
00:03:00
i'm so into calendars like you don't even know those squares contain all my plans multitudes
00:03:07
um today which is a wednesday right is is it tuesday no no no it's wednesday okay um today
00:03:16
is a year since the Golden State Killer was caught. Do you remember? Happy birthday, Karen.
00:03:22
Happy Golden State birthday, Georgia. Thank you. I will tell you this right now.
00:03:26
I know exactly where I was driving when I saw it on Twitter. And thank you again to that
00:03:32
person on Twitter that alerted me at 11 o'clock at night driving home from something.
00:03:39
I remember that. Down Moorpark. I fucking look at Twitter. Someone says, could it be?
00:03:44
This is really happening. Then the text begin. You start, you text me, you're the one who informed me. Thank you very much. That's,
00:03:50
that's now for it. I live for it. It's now two that you've told me were caught cold cases that
00:03:54
were solved. So you're on a roll. Thank you. It's my dream to be that person to be your personal
00:03:59
newscaster. Look out for the Delphi murders when they catch him because that's gonna matter. Yeah.
00:04:06
So I need you to tell me that'll be three. Okay. Yeah, it was really exciting. I think I woke up
00:04:11
from a nap at 11. Yep, that's right. And I think you and I were like not talking right then.
00:04:17
Yes. I think we were like, we had just come off, was it the European tour? Yeah.
00:04:23
There was something where it was like book and tour and too much of each other. Stress, stress, stress.
00:04:28
And I was just like, okay, we need to take a, you know, just the week to ourselves.
00:04:32
Can I please have one day? That's the thing I like to say. And then the Golden State Killer getting caught brought us back together.
00:04:38
Yep, I was just like, I know you want to talk to me. That's right. I know I'm the only person you want to talk to right now.
00:04:44
That's right. Called you. And these are the sinews that hold the muscles of the exoskeleton, endoskeleton of our relationship together.
00:04:52
That's right. And this podcast. It is like the ocean where the tide goes out, but baby, it comes back in.
00:04:57
That's right. Every time. Save our waters. Clean up here. Please get the plastic shit out of our ocean.
00:05:03
Cut up your six pack plastic can thing. Yes, a seagull's beak is going to get caught in that.
00:05:09
Is that what you want on your conscience? hilarious it's gonna look like a victorian or a what would that be like a seagull i thought that
00:05:17
was the the point is that we're dressing up birds of the ocean as like uh what is it from the 1500s
00:05:25
like avant-garde garb yes avant-garde like grace jones or uh the restoration the 1500s that's right
00:05:34
why would i even make a statement let's say the 1500s and so it is the 1500s were
00:05:40
Or either the Restoration, the Renaissance, or those two things are the same. This is my point.
00:05:45
You don't need to name the Renaissance two things. There are many history podcasts that you can immediately hang up on this one and turn that on if you want.
00:05:52
And do it. And we wish you would. And we wish you well doing it We do I have a quick podcast recommendation that I just started listening to when we were on the plane home from st louis and i fucking binge it there like only four episodes okay it called the ballot of billy balls and oh yes you been talking about this
00:06:08
and crimetown put it out it's like their neck their new season of their crime and it's hosted
00:06:14
by io till it right and he's just such a badass it's such a fucking good podcast it's like it's
00:06:21
It's like CB, they're trying to solve a like CBGB era fucking rockers murder with the girlfriend of the murder rocker involved.
00:06:33
And Io Tillett is also involved. And you don't know how until the third episode, but it's so fucking good.
00:06:39
I love it so much. Awesome. Yeah. I actually, I guess if we're going to do it, let's do a podcast corner.
00:06:45
Let's do it. This is our new thing. Because I have been listening to so many more lately than normal.
00:06:51
I went back because I'd never listened to Atlanta Monster. Right. Which I oftentimes I just stay silent because I'm like, sometimes I'm like, enough.
00:06:59
I can't. But I've always been fascinated with the Wayne Williams and the Atlanta Child Killer case
00:07:06
and how they used to when it was just the American Justice episodes type of treatment.
00:07:14
It was this thing of it was an open and shut case. Right. They caught him on the bridge.
00:07:17
Da da da. Wayne Williams, period. But there was other than there were a couple other shows that would fold in this thing of isn't that convenient that on the last night of the stakeout on this bridge they caught this guy.
00:07:27
Isn't that convenient? Isn't that convenient? You know, what were they trying to step around?
00:07:32
What race issue were they trying to avoid blowing up? Yeah. Whatever. And it was the 80s, right?
00:07:37
So that shit was already blowing up. It was already in Atlanta. Roiling. Yes. And in the South.
00:07:41
Anyway, I just it I blazed through it. Obviously, I'm late to the party. So who cares about this?
00:07:46
But I just pain Lindsay is great, a great podcaster and did such a good job with this investigation and opening those doors instead of going conspiracy theory or like putting that tinge on it.
00:07:58
Yeah, it's pulling in this very now modern look of like white people. You never look at anything this way because you are, you know, coming from this bias.
00:08:08
You don't know what it's like to feel this like police oppression or this abuse, constant abuse, constant neglect.
00:08:15
Or you think that the community, the black community thinks of their children differently than you would, or somehow it's not as important because it's a child who doesn't look like your child.
00:08:25
Yes. So, you know, looking at it in that way of like, it's just as important. Yes.
00:08:30
And those children deserve justice just as much as any fucking white kid does. And it's the travesty of when social oppression then creates these victims who are entirely innocent.
00:08:42
And that is another really lovely theme is that innocence, these innocent children, just because they're out at 11 o'clock at night or whatever, just because their home lives weren't ideal.
00:08:52
Right. They were innocent children. So it's so good if you haven't, which everyone already has.
00:08:57
This is like me recommending Friends. It's a great sitcom to watch. But I just really blazed through it and really liked it.
00:09:03
I love it. And that's Podcast Corner. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:09:08
To talk more about podcasts real quick, Murder Squad, their new episode this week has this fucking Paul Holes and Billy Johnson talking about the Golden State Killer, which is like how they met.
00:09:19
It's like their fucking thing. You know, it's their origin story. And they have a survivor on that they interview.
00:09:26
And she's just an incredible woman. And her amazing son. You got the podcast. You have the phone line, which has this week is Christmas Doe and Dennis Doe, two children who were murdered in Georgia and their cold cases.
00:09:38
And then this podcast will kill you this week is doing the Zika virus. Oh, how nice.
00:09:44
I just love it. I do love the how the kind of like the concentric circles of interest around like it's like I like true crime, but I also like other fucked up things that happen.
00:09:57
I love it. Don't necessarily belong in that little circle, but they definitely belong in that outer circle.
00:10:02
It's like societal woes is my favorite thing. Sure. however they come down that pipe.
00:10:08
And pretty soon, Exactly Right Network is going to have yet another podcast. We have like so many coming.
00:10:13
Did you call it a podcast? Did I? While I was grabbing my boobs? Did you notice that?
00:10:18
She's dirty, dirty. Yeah. Sorry. No, I interrupted you. Another podcast that what?
00:10:25
I don't know. We'll have a lot of podcasts coming up soon. So stay tuned. Make sure you follow.
00:10:29
Can you do that? Exactly Right Network. Can you follow a network on iTunes? I don't.
00:10:33
Will you subscribe? To the network? No, to every individual show, probably. How about Spotify?
00:10:38
You can subscribe to Exactly Right on Twitter. And Jay is the one posting all those Twitter updates of all the shows.
00:10:45
And Instagram. Do it. Please. We fight about Twitter and Instagram. We are opposing teams.
00:10:52
One is on jokes only and words only. One is pictures. That's right. What else? Anything?
00:10:58
Yes. Yeah? It was. Oh, I thought you were like in a very serious moment. No, no.
00:11:04
It was just something before. It was about that. It was like going around it. Twitter.
00:11:10
Nah. Lizzo. Always. She retweeted you. That was exciting. That was crazy. But her album had come out, so she was kind of retweeting everybody that was talking about it.
00:11:21
Yeah. But she also retweeted Courtney Barnett, who is one of my favorite singer-songwriters.
00:11:25
So good. Everybody loves Lizzo right now. She is the it girl of the moment. That's right.
00:11:31
Oh, I was going to say something great. oh uh fan cult we have a fan cult we're doing all kinds of exciting things there's contests coming
00:11:39
there's going to be like we're giving away like a lunch box it's really weird but like a book like
00:11:45
based on our book so like the fan cult and the book it's it's book swag yeah book swag comes out
00:11:50
may 28th i sure we gonna be giving away a lot of signed copies all this shit yeah but fan cult only we have to be exclusive about it yeah I mean we give you a few too We can afford it Exclusive Okay all right all right Exclusive Exclusive
00:12:06
But basically, it's join the insider circle so you know everything that we're doing.
00:12:10
Yeah, and it's better than it used to be. Should we get started? Yep. Who's first?
00:12:17
This again. Me? Based on the weekend, Steven? No, based on the Power Rangers. Okay.
00:12:23
Being the first thing. Based on reality. We have to do it based on what the listener's reality, not our reality.
00:12:28
I always forget which one's which. I know. What is reality? Truly. No. I mean, believe me.
00:12:34
Okay. Okay, bye. I do. I'm doing the murder of Hella Crafts, a.k.a. the wood chipper murder, a.k.a. the first episode of Forensic Files.
00:12:47
No! Yes. Amazing. And I was like, up all night, what murder do I do? because the one I did ended up being too gruesome.
00:12:56
And I'm like, you can't fucking do that, Georgia. So I was like looking for a new one.
00:12:59
And I was like, well, I wonder what the first episode of Forensic Files is. Found it.
00:13:02
I was like, oh, my God, how have we not done this? This is. I love this idea. Right.
00:13:06
It's so smart. Thank you. I'm very smart. And this is before Forensic Files had started naming their episodes really weird shit.
00:13:13
Like, you know, skirting the issues. It's always a bad part. Right. And this is just called The Disappearance of Hela Crafts.
00:13:19
And her name is Hela. H-E-L-L-E is how you spell it. But it's Hela. Okay. the info from morbidology.com. There's an article by Emily Thompson. And also, of course, our friend
00:13:30
Murderpedia. Yes, especially an article by Mark Gatto. Hella Crafts was born Heller Lork Nielsen
00:13:38
on July 4, 1947. She grew up in a small village in Denmark. Okay. And she's vibrant. She's outgoing.
00:13:46
She made friends easily. She's super fucking smart. By the time she was a teenager, she had
00:13:50
learn French and English and was able to understand German, Norwegian and Swedish. So I know only three
00:13:56
of those. That's a lie. I'm not even great at English. Do you remember when we were in Scandinavia
00:14:04
trying to pronounce those fucking city names? Oh, yeah. And there were my favorite was and I know
00:14:10
we've told the story about going up and making people in the front row tell us how to pronounce
00:14:14
it. Meanwhile, they were speaking absolutely perfect, like California English where they're
00:14:18
like, don't worry about it. We don't really care. We're like, oh, my God. Or they were all like
00:14:22
expats who didn't know how to say it either. Or they had just come to, you know, Amsterdam to see
00:14:27
us. Yeah, they were just on vacation. It was hilarious. Stop asking us shit. Yeah.
00:14:31
So yeah, she would have been good at that. So by the time she was 20, Hela is a beautiful young woman. I showed Vince a photo and I was like, who does she look like?
00:14:38
Because I need to explain. And he immediately was like, Emily Watson. Oh, wow. So the actress Emily Watson were an East Coast
00:14:46
like housewife that's what she looked like and it's exactly like her she became a dutch stewardess
00:14:52
how did what do we say now not stewardess flight attendant flight attendant or air hostess i'm not
00:14:56
sure i'm gonna go flight attendant okay um and then she and she loved discovering new places it
00:15:01
was like a perfect job for her because she was so outgoing and friendly and everyone fucking loved
00:15:04
her of course uh then she found out that pan american airlines pan am pan am was hiring sure
00:15:11
She applied along with 200 other people for eight spaces available, and she got one.
00:15:18
Yeah. Which is, sorry to say, but that is kind of like a beauty contest, because back then, that's kind of what it was.
00:15:24
It was like the Hooters of the air. But not in an objectification way. You also had to be a good, you know, hostess.
00:15:32
Yes, you had to be good at up-close customer service. Yeah. Don't they have like a Pan Am experience here in L.A. somewhere where you can do like the whole you have dinner as if you were on a Pan Am flight from the 60s?
00:15:44
No. So I follow this incredible woman. Her name is Allison Martino. She's the daughter of Al Martino, who is this singer in the fucking 50s and 60s, like old Los Angeles crooner type of dude.
00:15:57
And she posts she does these like crazy experiences and tells you all this history of L.A.
00:16:01
So she went on this Pan Am experience and it's like they serve you the food they would have served you.
00:16:06
We have to do that. Steven, you looked it up, and what did you find? Air Hollywood's Phantom Experience is a weekly retro-themed event for aviation enthusiasts
00:16:13
and people looking for a new fine dining experience. I am. You always say. You always say.
00:16:19
I always, with my long fake nails, point at you and say... With your capri. Yes.
00:16:24
Georgia, hold on, let me take a sip of this wine spritzer. Okay, well, we'll go.
00:16:29
Please. It's going to be my favorite murder event, outing. The field trips are beginning.
00:16:33
That's right. And then we have to do reports on field trips. Yeah, Stephen's our bus driver.
00:16:37
Great. Okay. Okay. Where were we? I don't fucking know. She becomes a Pan Am. That's right.
00:16:41
She won out of 200 people. She got top eight. That's right. So she sent to Miami for training and it was there on May 24th, 1969, the height probably
00:16:52
of Miami at the time, that she met 31-year-old Richard Crafts. Crafts, like I'm crafting.
00:16:59
Okay. He's a pilot for Eastern Airlines. and to me he there's not a lot of photos of him but i wrote if mr rogers were a dick and an
00:17:07
insurance salesman that's what he looks like so mr rogers but more tan and more buff yeah and like
00:17:12
not friendly face the warmth is gone the warmth's gone and he's trying to sell you
00:17:17
bat shitty stocks okay you know he's trying to get you to get in on this ponzi scheme he's a
00:17:24
ponzi type exactly okay so like fucking r.i.p to mr rogers and i'm sorry to desecrate your
00:17:29
beautiful name but we need a baseline that's right thank you um when he met hella in 1969 he was
00:17:35
already engaged to someone else but they they hooked up they maintain an on-again off-again
00:17:40
relationship for the next few years they fought all the time for friends said sometimes in public
00:17:45
her friends didn't like him they're like you can get any fucking dude and you're then this
00:17:49
mr rogers looking motherfucker um and they like you need to join adult children of alcoholics or some shit like that because clearly you a chaos addict That right Yeah Chaos addict That good Oh you pointing Can I say that you pointing at yourself Sure
00:18:05
You pointed at yourself with gusto. I love chaos. Oh, are you? Yes. Oh, my God. How are we friends?
00:18:12
I don't. I don't know. You know what? Maybe I love chaos addicts. I don't think you mind chaos yourself.
00:18:17
I know. Yeah. But it's weird. It's like I don't want to. You don't want to think of yourself that way.
00:18:23
Yeah. But for me, that's the thing of like being late or not turning things in or whatever.
00:18:27
It's like, now what's going to happen? Oh. So there's a little bit of I'm pretending that that somehow means I'm in control, which I'm not.
00:18:34
I feel like I'm chaotic and I have anxiety about it and I hate it and I don't want to be.
00:18:38
Right. Same. Okay. That's what that means. But there's almost like if it's what you grew up with.
00:18:44
Oh. Then it feels like mother's milk. So you kind of go like, it's my baseline. Dude.
00:18:49
And you don't want it to be. So there's shame. Can I side anecdote? Please. And I meant to mention this.
00:18:54
My mom got married. Yes. Last week after having been with my now new stepdad, which is the weirdest.
00:19:02
I've never had a stepparent in my life. And what's your new line? What's my new line?
00:19:07
You're not my real dad. You're not my real dad, John. But we love John. She's been with him for like 15 years.
00:19:13
He's the best fucking person. I adore him. I get a text message on Tuesday to 14 other people.
00:19:18
It was a group text, including phone numbers I didn't have in my phone. So fucking strangers to me.
00:19:22
And my mom said, surprise, we got married. Who fucking does it? And when I said to her, you know, I was just like, that's so Janet.
00:19:30
It's fine. I'm so happy for you. Wonderful, wonderful. And then later when we talked, I was like, you know, I really would have loved a phone call, like, just to tell me that this happened.
00:19:37
And she's just like, oh, I'm such a bad mom. Oh, you are unique. You know, did that.
00:19:43
Well, here's the thing, though. She's the kind of person that, like, it is deadly to be wrong for her.
00:19:50
It's deadly to be wrong. and you can't even like just even put in one suggestion in the suggestion box.
00:19:58
All I want is, yeah, I could see why you'd want that. That's it. I know. You didn't have to do it.
00:20:02
Just understand that. Just hear what I'm saying and like readjust your perspective.
00:20:06
My mom was the exact same way where anytime I would just be like, you know what kind of sucks?
00:20:10
And she'd be like, oh, I'm sorry. You get everything you want. Where it was like no complaint was valid,
00:20:16
which is why when then that comes up for me where it's just like you then just time travel into having these fights because you did that
00:20:23
when you were 11 with the person that was in charge of reality. Jesus Christ. All right.
00:20:29
Go ahead. How are we successful based on our fucking... Oh, my life. Seriously. You lit your bed on fire as a like four-year-old.
00:20:37
I lit my fucking life on fire, friend. I was just telling somebody this where I was just like right up till this podcast got popular,
00:20:44
I was sliding down the face of the mountain into the fucking death pool. Like I was done.
00:20:49
And you were like hands up, excited, like on a roller coaster. Like here we go. Fuck it all.
00:20:55
Yeah. And then we both pulled each other up. Yep. Thank you. Hey, thank you. Thank you, Karen.
00:21:01
Thank you, Georgia. Thank you, Karen. Where were we? Janet. We're calling Janet.
00:21:06
Janet. God damn it. Damn it, Janet. Okay. Blah, blah, blah. They're together. It's volatile.
00:21:13
They probably shouldn't have been. But then in 1975, Hela found out that she was pregnant.
00:21:17
Oh. And they decided to get married. Sure. Okay. They bought a one level ranch house
00:21:22
in the city of Newtown. Newtown. Where Hela had her first child. And then over the next few years,
00:21:28
she had two more. So they have three kids together. Richard picks up a second job
00:21:32
as an auxiliary police officer. Is that a security guard? I think it's like, yeah, it's like a part time cop,
00:21:38
which shouldn't be a thing without all the like, you don't get all the bells and whistles.
00:21:42
you don't know how to do anything but you have a gun that's right but like he also was like kind
00:21:48
of a dick about it like he bought the exact same kind of police car that they had and when put like
00:21:53
wires and shit on it like he and he just would come to the station even when he wasn't on shift
00:21:57
like he really wanted and he was like really enforced whatever fucking baby uh whatever he had
00:22:04
enforced the any power any baby power that he had he like double time oh got it got it yeah so it's
00:22:10
like oh so you can tell you can you can write up someone a citation right but it isn't really a
00:22:15
ticket and they're like yeah i'll fucking write citations all day all day about every little thing
00:22:19
and it's like calm down dude yeah so yeah so it's great he's doing that she's um continuing to work
00:22:27
as a airline flight attendant flight attendant yes and um according to more than their looks i'm
00:22:34
sorry i've said the thing about it in the 60s it was yeah the late 60s when it was kind of like yeah
00:22:39
It's a known thing. Okay, good. Yeah, yeah. All right. You're good. Thanks. So I looked it up, of course, on our My Favorite Murder Gmail and found a murderino named Maggie B.
00:22:49
Her mother, back then, babysat for the craft's children. Wow. And she said Richard was a, quote, bit of an oddball.
00:22:58
And that Hela was very sweet, very pretty, Swedish woman with a thick accent. And fuck him.
00:23:06
I said, I added that part. So the marriage is rocky, of course. Richard starts cheating on her even before they're married.
00:23:13
When he's asked why they got married, he said, quote, Hela was pregnant at the time we were married.
00:23:19
It was too far advanced for a doctor to perform an abortion, and we decided to get married.
00:23:24
So the most romantic. Just romance at the height of, it's called like a deep human soul connection.
00:23:31
Yes. When you get married because it's too late to get an abortion. That's what Oprah calls it, deep human.
00:23:36
deep human soul connection minus an abortion yeah so during their marriage richard's just fucking cheating all the time
00:23:43
he has all these affairs um he would disappear for days at a time and never say where he was
00:23:49
and he also bought a shit ton of guns oh for whatever reason because because that's sexy
00:23:54
for his dates yeah oh and because he's an auxiliary policeman yeah so he's like a
00:24:00
obsessed with guns that they had they made a pretty good wage because of being in the airline
00:24:04
industry is good and so he spent it he didn't give her any money he spent all the money on
00:24:08
fucking guns and shit wow um and in the months leading up to her disappearance hella had discovered
00:24:14
phone calls to an unknown number and she's like he's fucking doing it again like she kind of
00:24:18
ignored it because of the kids and stuff and he probably promised he wasn't doing it anymore
00:24:22
so to confirm her suspicions she hires a private detective he's a former connecticut cop his name
00:24:29
His name is Keith Mayo. Okay. Which I love. He'd be played Mayo. I've heard of his clinic.
00:24:38
That's right. It's amazing. That's right. It has all the best mayonnaise. That's right.
00:24:42
This guy's the best. He'd be played by a young mustachioed Paul Giamatti. Hello.
00:24:47
Which I think any role, any movie that my favorite murder makes is going to have Paul Giamatti in it.
00:24:52
We got to. And also just in terms of being a utility character actor, you can slap a very slight toupee on him and he's a completely different person.
00:25:01
You can paint him blue. You can do whatever it takes. And the biopic of Blue Man Group.
00:25:07
Paint him blue. Blue Man Group, fucking Avatar. That's right. Or his great film, Big Fat Liar, which my entire family is obsessed with.
00:25:16
Or his cameo in the forthcoming book, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the audio book.
00:25:22
That's right. Is that known yet? Did we talk about it? I think we have talked about it, but we might as well brag on it a little bit more.
00:25:28
Paul Giamatti is doing is helping us read our audio book here and there. Here and there.
00:25:34
He reached out to us and we were like, hi, can you will you do this? Is this really you?
00:25:39
Are you making fun of us? Yes. And he was like, yes, yes, no. Yeah, that's right.
00:25:45
OK. The end. Paul Giamatti. You'll see. Oh, you'll see. You'll see when you listen to the audio book.
00:25:50
And yes, we read it, too. OK. So Keith Mayo confirms that not only is Richard having another affair, he's had one girlfriend in particular in New Jersey who he had been seeing for years.
00:26:01
Oh, I hate that. Look, I hate that so much. It's so fucking mean to the other person.
00:26:09
It's so mean to pretend that you're doing to pretend that you are sharing a reality when you're not.
00:26:14
Yeah. I think that's so fucking shitty to trick the person into thinking that their life is what is one thing.
00:26:21
And it turns out it's like, just tell them that they're nice. Like, you have to go crazy when you find that out.
00:26:26
Right. Yes. Because then suddenly it's just like, it's one thing to have an affair with people you
00:26:30
don't care about. And it's like, oh, he can't stop fucking whatever. Yes. But to be posted up with a totally other person and just have like a secret life.
00:26:38
And being like, I love you and spending all your emotional fucking energy on them.
00:26:43
And it's nightmare. It's just everyone's worst nightmare. It's like you're keeping something from me and it's terrible.
00:26:48
Well, this guy was really doing it. And clearly didn't care about how it impacted him.
00:26:52
And was fucking around, too. So it's like... He was even fucking the secret girl...
00:26:56
I mean, fucking over the secret girlfriend. It's like no one's safe with... Yeah.
00:27:00
Yeah. Al Martino, whatever the hell his name is. No, that's the father of the Instagram.
00:27:05
Oh, no, I'm sorry. Shit, I'm so sorry. No, wait. What's his name? Sorry. What's the husband's name?
00:27:11
Richard Crafts. Thank you. Okay. No one's safe with Richard Crafts. Stephen, that's an easy pull.
00:27:17
No, it's not. No one's safe with... Leave it. Okay. Leave it. We're here. We're raw.
00:27:21
We're flawed and raw and we love chaos. Yeah, chaos reigns. We accuse people of shit.
00:27:29
Okay. So now that she has proof of his infidelity, she files for divorce. And she told her friends that she had feared for her life.
00:27:39
And they kind of believed her because she told them, you know, she confided in her friends about what a dick he was.
00:27:45
And she had appeared in public multiple times with bruises on her face. so um her divorce lawyer said that she told them that quote if anything happened to me
00:27:55
not quote if anything happened to me we should not believe that it was an accident which is like
00:28:00
oh how many times have we said that though so many stories every time women who know what's coming
00:28:05
that's right the worst it's so sad and she also told her lawyer that richard had a ton of guns
00:28:10
and that he had physically abused her in the past so despite the fact that he was cheating on her
00:28:15
She decided to attain a no fault divorce as opposed to charge him with adultery.
00:28:20
And I'm, you know, I can imagine it's just like, let's make this as like, let's not fucking make him angry.
00:28:27
Like, let's let's make this as easy as possible. It's not like make him react in any way.
00:28:32
It sucks so bad. Yeah. She's just trying to slide out the door and close it behind her so she can get out like free and clear.
00:28:38
That's right. So she did that. and she was concerned about the children as well how he would react.
00:28:45
The divorce papers were written up, but they're never served because on November 18th, 1986,
00:28:52
39-year-old Hella returns from working on a flight from Germany and she's dropped off at her house by two other flight attendants
00:28:59
and they knew about the rocky relationship with Richard. So when they dropped her off and she was like,
00:29:04
oh shit, he's home because I think they still live together. They understood. so uh it was the last time anyone aside from her husband saw her alive so her friends become
00:29:16
concerned when they haven't heard from hella and richard starts telling everyone a different
00:29:20
fucking story like uh she was on another flight or she was at home in denmark with her mom
00:29:26
and her mom's like uh no dudes she's not home with me and probably like just like that and um
00:29:33
He gave different stories to everyone. So one of Hela's co-workers named Rita didn't believe Richard's bullshit and was worried about her friend.
00:29:42
So she reports Hela missing on the 1st of December, two weeks after she had gone missing.
00:29:46
Wow. So when the police questioned Richard who by now is an actual policeman with the neighboring county he gives them a bunch of bullshit He passes a lie detector test And so they like great And they didn fucking worry about it And so here comes fucking Mr Mayo Keith Mayo
00:30:07
Oh, yeah. Who like got hired for this job of proving that he was cheating. And he was like, fuck this shit.
00:30:13
He's like, I'm getting involved. This is bullshit. He was worried about his client.
00:30:17
So he decided he needed to find evidence to convince the police to take Hela's disappearance seriously.
00:30:23
he finds um he finds in the papers provided by hella he finds a receipt for a chainsaw
00:30:30
and then he learns that the au pair uh the au pair tells him that richard had cut out pieces
00:30:37
of his bedroom rug and discarded them at a local dump thank you au pair that's right seriously
00:30:43
that was some key fucking evidence yeah she's um definitely mandatory in this whole case okay nice
00:30:48
So he's like, we're going to the dump. This guy, this fucking private investigator, he, with the help of a local trash pickup crew,
00:30:58
they find out which dump the Crafts trash would have been taken to. And it's like two hours east of Newtown.
00:31:04
He recruits a few helpers. And for the next several days, they search a mountain of trash at the dump.
00:31:10
Wow. Can you imagine? Yeah, I know. But they do succeed in locating a portion of rug that's nearly identical to the rug at the Crafts residence.
00:31:17
and it's taken to the state police laboratory in meriden led by a young forensics investigator
00:31:23
for the state police none other than and it's the first episode of forensic files
00:31:28
dr henry lee there he is there he is he should be on the first episode of forensic files this took
00:31:35
place in uh the forensic files was aired in 1996 so we were i was 16 when i'm sure i first fucking
00:31:41
saw this. I was flying on diet pills, age 26. And Henry Lee was just a bright-eyed,
00:31:48
bushy-tailed forensics dude. That's amazing. Yeah. He's one of the country's foremost forensic
00:31:54
scientists already, though. So, Hella's friends also kept up a nonstop campaign of calling the
00:31:59
police for updates about the investigation, because they fucking knew that she wouldn't
00:32:03
have just disappeared and left her children behind, of course. And as a result, the state's
00:32:07
attorney's office so they like fucking usurp the local cops they decide that the investigation
00:32:12
should be handled in total by the connecticut state police so they take the fucking case away
00:32:17
that's what that's for that's right um so when they looked into his behavior finally without
00:32:22
note because they didn't know him and didn't give a shit right they weren't buddies they uh they look
00:32:27
into his behavior right after she disappeared and they find some strange shit so aside from several
00:32:32
pieces of the carpet in the bedroom that had been removed. He had completely remodeled their bedroom.
00:32:38
And then Dr. Lee performed, of course, it's the first episode of Forensic Files, a luminol
00:32:44
test. Luminol test. Yay. In various locations, they test positive for the presence of blood.
00:32:49
And among Richard's credit card records, they find that he had purchased a new freezer,
00:32:54
chainsaw he had bought also. they find that he had rented a 2,700 pound wood chipper in a u-haul truck shortly before hella
00:33:03
disappeared he also his numerous affairs continued after hella disappeared and never once he mentioned
00:33:09
to any of these fucking women uh who knew he was married that his wife was missing so uh and then
00:33:15
hella's car is found in an air an employee airport parking lot so when the story of hella's disappearance
00:33:21
finally starts making the news because someone's fucking taking it seriously the snowplow driver
00:33:27
comes forward and he's like i know richard i've you know he knew him by sight uh i saw mr crafts
00:33:35
using the wood chipper near the lake in the early morning hours uh of the like right after she
00:33:40
disappeared it was a there had been a severe winter storm that had hit connecticut and uh it
00:33:47
snow and sleet everywhere gusty winds and so they were emergency snow plowing the roads and he drives
00:33:54
past his u-haul and he sees a fucking wood chipper attached to it and then he sees this richard
00:34:00
crafts and he's like that's fucking weird that's weird out in the middle of this post snowstorm
00:34:05
day so when he finds out that his wife is missing he comes forward good um good job snow plow guy
00:34:12
that's right i like to call you mr plow because name again is mr plow thank you uh okay police go to the scene of where uh the wood chipper uh was seen and uh they find uh there's
00:34:28
a scattering of wood chips under a layer of dead leaves and among those wood chips they also find
00:34:33
a human thumb a fingertip with the nail attached covered in pink nail polish 2660
00:34:41
2660 strands of blonde hair a big toe 69 slivers of human bone a truncated piece
00:34:51
of human skull 5 droplets of human blood and a mailing label with Helicraft's name on it and 2 teeth
00:34:58
so awful that's all that's fucking left also slight sidebar but wood chippers themselves
00:35:06
are frightening machines I've never. Okay. Never. So those kinds of things were always around growing up because, like, my aunt and uncle had a farm.
00:35:15
Yeah, yeah. So they were, and we lived on Eucalyptus Avenue. Oh, shit. And there was a Eucalyptus Grove between our house and my aunt Jean's house.
00:35:23
So they used to have to go into the creek every year and cut down trees and then put them in the wood chipper.
00:35:28
Okay. And there's a famous family story of them doing it, my dad, my Uncle Steve, and my cousin Stevie.
00:35:34
and I think Stevie was like a 17 or 18 and they were throwing stuff in the wood chipper and Stevie
00:35:40
threw a branch it caught in his sleeve no and pull and then he started his arm started going
00:35:46
into the wood chipper connected to this branch that was by like basically gravity yeah pulling
00:35:52
him in and my dad turned around and yanked him back out basically like saved his arm holy in a When they came back and retold the story they were all white like completely pale gray and we just like and you my
00:36:07
cousin stevie who was such an asshole growing up and he like turned to me and my sister's like
00:36:11
your dad saved my arm he said he didn't save his arm he probably would have bled out yeah like if
00:36:17
your arm gets chewed off in there it's just gonna be massive amounts of blood loss if you're out in
00:36:20
the middle of the fucking farm and you have to what is like a half an hour to town you're so right
00:36:24
Also, that's an I Survived where the guy gets his arms cut off in the combine. Oh, yeah, he lives.
00:36:30
And they get reattached. But also, it's the thing of in that moment, like I think about this all the time.
00:36:36
I freeze sometimes when things like that happen. Like if somebody screams or there's a loud noise, oftentimes it will be like, wait, what's going on?
00:36:44
But I think because my dad was a fireman, he just had that thing of you do not, you just act.
00:36:49
For sure. You don't judge it. And you don't panic either. he probably has had so much experience in not panicking whereas like we don't see shit like
00:36:55
that all the time so we do panic yeah they're just close calls close calls it's and wood chippers
00:37:01
are just so scary so scary well this motherfucker yeah so okay and in total dr henry lee's team
00:37:09
found just a total of three ounces of human remains wow total so dr henry lee determined
00:37:15
that the o-type blood positive was a match to hella's and that the bone fragments belong to a
00:37:20
human and a forensic odontologist was able to identify the tooth as belonging to helicrafts so
00:37:25
they confirmed that it was her body um in addition they uncovered a submerged chainsaw in the host
00:37:32
satanic river or house satanic river it's house satanic yes that's it that's the one the chainsaw
00:37:40
had blonde hairs intertwined in the chains and inside the rented u-haul van they also found a
00:37:45
clump of human tissue like material that tested positive for human blood fucking monster so this
00:37:50
guy was like a monster and messy and like not good just disgusting yeah he like didn't even he was
00:37:55
like a mile from his house he'd like didn't even he was so cocky that he would never get caught that
00:37:59
he just didn't even fucking care psychopath yeah so based on this information of course helic
00:38:04
crafts is pronounced dead and 50 year old richard is arrested when he arrives home from a christmas
00:38:10
ski trip with his children wow right after their mother goes to goes disappearing that's what it
00:38:17
It is. That's what it is. Prosecutors, they face a double burden, because not only did they have to convince the jury that Hela was actually dead, because they didn't have, quote unquote, a body, which has never happened. There's never been a trial in Connecticut up until this point where there wasn't a body and a murder trial. And they also had to convince the jury that Richard was the one who killed her. So there was no physical body. And the motive, they argued, was that Richard didn't want to get a divorce, of course.
00:38:43
they theorize that richard's richard first struck hella unconscious with something blunt in their
00:38:49
bedroom and then he carried her body to the freezer where he left her to freeze assuming
00:38:54
because it's easier and less messy to put through the wood chipper which is so fucking awful disgusting
00:38:59
like to to think that through in those details and then it's also your wife and the mother of
00:39:05
your children i mean it is the thing of this is the difference where you can this is the difference
00:39:11
of when you have a conscience and when you don't because thinking about the scene from fargo where
00:39:17
you of the wood chipper i get sick and like i don't want to think about it anymore and the
00:39:21
person who's being wood chipped is a fucking supposed to terrible character it's a terrible
00:39:25
character but also it's like it's a it's a prop leg yeah you know what i mean it's as fake as it
00:39:30
can be and i don't like thinking about it yeah and the person who puts him through is like a dead
00:39:34
eyed monster yeah and that's and this person did it to his fucking wife yeah which is sick
00:39:39
um so he then took hella's body to the river where he was seen by the snowplower thank god
00:39:45
and chopped into several pieces with the chainsaw and then put through the witch
00:39:51
were sickening i mean think about your children they're going to have to fucking grow up
00:39:56
knowing this he doesn't think about anybody of course not the police believe that he then um
00:40:01
put this scattered the pieces in the river and around the surrounding area so during his trial
00:40:07
the couple's housekeeper don thomas tells the courtroom that on the day of hella's disappearance
00:40:11
richard had allowed her to go home early and she testified that richard had removed a freezer
00:40:16
and a carpet with a large black stain from their home just a couple days after hella disappeared
00:40:20
i fucking love these witnesses they're all like i love them with my heart it's bananas um when don
00:40:26
is asked about the when don is like richard what's that fucking stain mr crafts whatever he's like i
00:40:32
spilled kerosene and i i don't want you to clean it i'm just gonna cut the fucking carpet out yeah
00:40:36
Oh, you mean because you had your hurricane lamp up in the bedroom? Right. You fucking piece of shit.
00:40:43
Hela's friend Susan Lawson tells the court that Richard had physically abused Hela before and that he had lied.
00:40:50
He had said his colon cancer had come back. And when Hela called the doctor to confirm that, it turned out he was lying to get her to not go through with the divorce.
00:40:59
Oh, God. That's right. then Richard Kraft's own brother-in-law testified that when the state police
00:41:05
divers started looking for his wife in the rivers, he said, quote, let them dive.
00:41:10
There's no body. It's gone. His own brother-in-law did that after a hundred fucking witnesses and 650
00:41:18
exhibits are presented in a 53 day trial, which I guess is very fucking long time.
00:41:22
The jury deliberates for 17 days. And on July 15th, 1988, a mistrial is fucking declared.
00:41:31
Yes. Because there was one motherfucking jury member who it was 11 to one in favor of conviction.
00:41:37
One jury member walks out because he refuses to vote to convict. So it was a mistrial.
00:41:43
He was just somehow like, I don't think. And that man was Mitch McConnell. Fucking piece of shit.
00:41:51
The prosecutors, bless their hearts. They like fuck you We doing this again Thank God thank god they were like fuck you fuck you fuck you So the second trial scheduled for the following year This time the prosecution is able to successfully argue that Hela had been murdered and it took
00:42:08
only eight hours to reach a unanimous verdict. Three years and two days since Hela was last seen alive, the jury found that Richard was
00:42:15
guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. Phew. And at his sentencing, he says, quote, a great deal has been said about my apparent
00:42:22
lack of emotion. I have feelings like everyone else, which is like, how do you think you do?
00:42:28
It's that weird psychopath thing where it's like, this is how everyone feels about things.
00:42:32
Right. You don't know what other people's emotions are. And the blindness to when you finally go to say something, it's all about, oh my God, this is so hard for me.
00:42:40
You're not even smart enough to not do the thing that psychopaths always do, which is, I've been through a lot in this trial where it's like, you idiot.
00:42:48
You're pointing back at yourself again. Totally. It's like these people are so manipulating and cunning and fucking like, what's like nefarious?
00:42:57
Mentally ill. Yes. But then they're like pretty stupid because they don't think they don't think with empathy and with an open mind.
00:43:04
Hubris. Okay. That's the one. It's hubris. That guy. They think it's what you said.
00:43:08
They think they're smarter than everybody. So there's no in their mind. There's no way they can mess up.
00:43:13
Right. Because they have already thought it all through and they know everything.
00:43:15
Right. Nightmare. So he maintained his innocence and continued to say that Hela had just disappeared.
00:43:22
At a sentencing, Richard's own fucking sister, who by then had custody of the couple's three children.
00:43:27
I know. She urged the judge to impose the maximum sentence, his own sister. He's sentenced to 50 years in prison.
00:43:35
Yay. Keith Mayo. Let's find out. I was like, what happened to Keith Mayo, though?
00:43:39
And so I Googled him. um he sent a registered letter to the police commissioner commission chairman asking for an
00:43:46
independent investigation into why the newtown police did not take hella's missing persons report
00:43:51
seriously so he called for an investigation of the conduct of the police department's detective
00:43:56
bureau which is like you fucking double down like he did not be he didn't need to be involved in any
00:44:02
of this but he was like i'm gonna follow this through yeah which is so fucking he cared amazing
00:44:07
Sadly, in 1999, at 46 years old, Keith Mayo died from injuries, suffered in a car accident.
00:44:14
Oh, no. I know. I was so bummed when I saw that. That's so young. I know. He was survived by his wife and three children.
00:44:19
Helicraft's murder was a landmark case. It advanced forensic science greatly. It involved serology, radiology, ballistics, hair and fiber experts and FBI experts.
00:44:31
And it was the first case in which somebody was convicted of murder with no body in the state of Connecticut.
00:44:36
it. It's not called habeas. I've been trying to think of it. Corpus Delecti. For real? Yeah.
00:44:41
Here's how I was trying to think of it. Yes, that's Delecti. Corpus Delecti. Because I just
00:44:44
saw them talking about it on another Forensic Files when we were on tour. Yeah, I think I watched
00:44:48
that one too. We were watching it at the same time. The one Skip Hollingsworth was on. Oh, Skip.
00:44:53
But I kept thinking how funny it is. Delecti may sound like delicious body. Yeah, Delectable. Yeah.
00:45:00
So as I was trying to think of it, like I was going to sound so smart if I could come up with
00:45:03
habeas corpus deletae but i was like like habeas delicious like i kept thinking of it i'm like just
00:45:11
no no i only know it because i listened to um no stone unturned the study of the um what are they
00:45:18
called no stone unturned which is the story of necro search who find bodies that um that have
00:45:25
been hidden and because of that they can try the murderers because they have a body okay right
00:45:30
a couple years ago, Joel Cohen admitted in the Huffington Post article that the wood chipper scene in Fargo
00:45:37
is directly inspired by the murder of Helicraft. That makes perfect sense. And the earliest Richard can be
00:45:43
released is August 2021 when he'll be 84 years old. So let's fucking Keith Mayo that shit and keep him in prison.
00:45:51
They will. I know. Especially, I mean, like, it's infamous. Yeah. And he's 80. Where's he gonna go now?
00:45:57
Totally. And that's the story of the murder of helicrafts wow god great idea thanks i'm just gonna start doing that
00:46:06
unsolved mysteries first episode cold case files first episode i love that though because you know
00:46:11
james charles the um makeup guy that me and nora my niece nora love to watch together he did that
00:46:17
same thing where he went to the first youtube makeup tutorial and did it along with the woman
00:46:22
who did the first youtube makeup tutorial legend it was it's the funniest it made us laugh so hard
00:46:28
Because it was like clearly from like 1996 or whatever. And I think it was Bobby Brown.
00:46:34
I think it was like, or Jane Iredell. Someone was like, you know, it's a great idea.
00:46:38
And everyone's like, why are you bothering with that? Yeah, exactly. And they're like, no, come on, throw some bronzer on.
00:46:43
No one's going to watch this. And he did it along with and he couldn't get over that she was applying foundation with her fingers.
00:46:49
He was so grossed out. It was really fun. Amazing. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.
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Terms and conditions apply. See Pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Okay. Is it my turn?
00:48:52
It's your turn. Okay. This was one I was thinking of doing for St. Louis. for the live show.
00:48:59
Too dark or big or heavy or whatever. So I didn't do it. So it's so funny that like,
00:49:05
it's still dark and big and heavy. We just don't have to hear the audience silence
00:49:08
when you say something terrible. That's the only difference. Right. Yeah. Our live show is more comedic.
00:49:14
I would say it's like on the scale tips toward comedic as opposed to true crime.
00:49:19
Because? Because it's a fucking live show. Yeah. And that's the fun part. We definitely do the dark part.
00:49:25
It's fun, but it's also hard to say all these horrible things. and then have no reaction from the audience.
00:49:30
Well, yeah. Once you're in a live show setting and vibe, you just want those fucking laughs.
00:49:36
I mean, I don't know what you want. That's what I want. I want that. That's all I want.
00:49:40
I don't want to talk about the horrible things. So tell me right now. Okay. So in privacy with just Stephen watching,
00:49:46
it's so much easier to tell you about the Kansas City Hyatt walkway collapse of 1981.
00:49:52
Do you know about this? Dude. I never heard of it. Because sometimes I go like, oh, maybe there's a disaster that's like, you know, something to talk about. And these ones
00:50:02
are awful. And it's it's human error. And it's and it's innocent lives. So like, you know,
00:50:09
it's very difficult to talk. Can I tell you though, what's so weird, the one I ended up
00:50:14
I had a murder, I said, and I changed my mind last minute, because it was too gruesome.
00:50:18
Mine was when I was going to do in Nashville, but was too gruesome for that. It was the Interstate
00:50:23
75 largest car crash in American history. I, why wouldn't you remember that one?
00:50:29
Yes. Was it, is it because of the fog? Yeah. Yes. That's incredible. Because of the fog from a paper mill.
00:50:33
So it's, it's not murder, but it's, it's, um, what's it called when you don't pay attention
00:50:38
enough? Uh, when you're like, you mean like human error? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yes, exactly.
00:50:43
So there's not, it's not like there's a villain or a bad guy. It's like, this could have happened.
00:50:48
It could have been you. No, no, no. Yes. And it's like passive murder because the paper plants didn't give a shit and just like let this stuff happen for years and years.
00:50:57
Yes. Manslaughter, I think they call it. Okay. I mean, well, I'll do it sometime in the future.
00:51:02
That's what you mean. Are you sure you haven't done that? Because that sounds super familiar.
00:51:06
Probably have. Let's be honest. I had to make Stephen look up the one I just did right before we recorded because I was like, I bet I've done this before.
00:51:16
Look, I probably have. Hey, look. Look. Look, don't judge me. Listen. Okay. Okay.
00:51:22
So we're in this fucked up story, but it's 1981. So let me set a little picture for you.
00:51:27
I'm so into this. I'm so here for this. Okay. Thank you. It's 81. It's not just before, which everything, when we're talking about things like this, we're
00:51:36
always like, it's before the internet or whatever. But this is so far back. 81 is like when everything was brown, tan, or moss green.
00:51:45
The world was muted. muted dimmer boring flat pre-video games this was like go outside and ride your bike or you're
00:51:54
fucked or watch uh bugs bunny cartoons from 1944 right and i love lucy yeah go go try to play pong
00:52:01
and that's that was an exciting video game that's right we begged my dad for fucking pong yeah and
00:52:07
then atari came out we're like no no we want atari and then he waited three years and got us pong
00:52:11
because Jim fought. He fought it and fought it and fought it. And he would always go like,
00:52:19
we'd be like, Dad, please, can we get cable? Can we please have HBO? And he'd be like, we have it at the firehouse.
00:52:24
You don't need it. You're not missing out. I'll kill you. You're living the greatest life at the firehouse
00:52:30
and coming home. And anyway, that's not what this is about. Great. 1981. Okay. The Iran hostage crisis finally comes to a close.
00:52:38
The Yorkshire Ripper is caught. post-it notes are invented oh so this is a time where it's like we're not even talking about like
00:52:44
digital this or digital that we're talking about post-it notes hadn't even been around that was
00:52:49
nuts life starting yeah like like you know like pre-post-it notes like it's fucking piece of
00:52:57
paper with like light glue on the back and you can't even figure that out revolutionary pre-80s
00:53:02
people are like look it's just a little square i can do anything i want with it meanwhile we had
00:53:07
just gotten over the invention of whiteout or like I can change pen mistakes. Incredible. Yeah.
00:53:13
And every paper that you wrote it that I wrote in sixth grade weighed six pounds because you had so
00:53:18
much whiteout on it. Jesus. And also Jay and I were just talking this morning about how
00:53:22
calculators and I was like, remember how hilarious it was when you would write boobs by writing
00:53:28
eight zero zero eight five on a calculator or boob list. There's a couple things you could do.
00:53:34
and that to us was like that was twitter that was the height holding up a calculator that said boobs
00:53:40
was like fucking a tweet storm that's right this was full-on crow magnum era life the first flight
00:53:48
of the space shuttle columbia happened this was this was when the aids virus was identified
00:53:54
first identified which i remember seeing on the news which was already killing people but they finally identified it They finally fucking said it was happening And then Reagan just made sure that everyone was okay afterwards right
00:54:05
No, no, no, no, no. Oh, no? He fucking ignored it for years and years and decades?
00:54:09
Please. Goodbye. Sorry. Goodbye. Lady Diana Spencer married Charles the Prince of Wales.
00:54:16
Sorry. Oh, you can edit that out. No, no, no, no. I mean, that's, no, you're exactly right.
00:54:20
And that is the world we lived in. Yeah. um also and i'll just as a side note to lady diana spencer marrying charles the prince of wales
00:54:27
there was such a um lady dian prince charles fever that took over america in 1981 except in
00:54:35
my grandma's house and literally if you talked about it if you brought it up if it came on the
00:54:40
news she would get so fucking pissed why because the irish were oppressed by the british there is
00:54:47
no such thing as the anglophilia that i fucking in very in betrayal of my grandma and you know
00:54:55
loving all things british is so offensive to the irish side of the family because the reason
00:55:00
the irish family emigrated out of longford and galway was because the brown coats were the the
00:55:06
british soldiers were in ireland beating the shit out of children my grandfather as a child
00:55:11
was made to dig ditches for british soldiers instead of going to school jesus they were it
00:55:16
was crazy and they were awful and so fair enough the charm did not come through so it was i had the
00:55:22
weirdest perspective as an 11 year old about because everyone's like i want to get my hair
00:55:26
cut like lady die or whatever and i was like it's this is all wrong you shouldn't be doing
00:55:30
she's like good people she's breaking commemorative plates in her kitchen floor yeah
00:55:35
like literally like spit on the ground type of like oh my god switching off tv it was amazing i
00:55:41
love fucking love my grandma and okay anyway so okay in may of 19 this so we're gonna go back a
00:55:47
little bit for the the plans of this hyatt regency kansas city um uh may of 1978 construction begins
00:55:55
um it is in the crown center district by union station um it's going to be 40 stories tall
00:56:03
and it's going to feature a multi-story lobby atrium okay so like open air and the glass
00:56:10
it's that all that and again this was before this um in the late 70s early 80s all ceilings were
00:56:16
much lower than they should have been and all everything was brown carpet right it was like
00:56:21
the inside of a depressing mall everywhere yes and it was all like the world was closing in on you
00:56:26
in fucking earth tones in shades of earth tones and here comes high with a sweeping grand
00:56:33
ceiling look at the sky oh my god the plants are growing so tall so yeah they're trying to be
00:56:39
modern and, you know, atrium it up. Got it. So the engineers design floating walkways that are
00:56:49
going to hang from the ceiling within the atrium at the second, third and fourth floors, connecting
00:56:55
the north and south wings of the hotel. So obviously, this thing is massive. And it's basically like,
00:57:01
it's going to be this futuristic. And so they have these little bridges running across the open air
00:57:05
to like get from this side of the thing to this side, you can look down, it's beautiful, you can
00:57:09
look up it's still beautiful you know that kind of thing exactly okay this is your atrium like you
00:57:13
know fancy big hotel experience you're exactly right so four-story walkway sits directly above
00:57:20
the second story walkway while the third story walkway is offset from that okay so they basically
00:57:25
you know doing that that kind of thing got it they were playing with levels i'll talk about
00:57:30
architecture later um i wish you would in 2025 so so as the building starts there's delays and
00:57:37
setbacks, which happens during all construction. But for this one, it was pretty bad. Most notably,
00:57:42
at one point, a 2,700 square foot portion of the roof collapses while they're building it.
00:57:49
So miraculously, no one was hurt in that accident, but it causes a significant delay in construction.
00:57:55
So finally, on July 1st, 1980, the hotel officially opens. So for the next year,
00:58:01
everything's regular business as usual um normal hotel atrium walk floating walkway shit got it
00:58:08
um then on the evening of friday july 17th 1981 there's a crowd of roughly 1600 people
00:58:17
who have gathered in the lobby atrium area for the tea dance that the hotel put on for guests
00:58:23
and whoever wanted to come like regularly yes i'm not sure dance a tea dance so it was basically an
00:58:30
evening early evening like it was a apparently we looked it up i of course clicked that link on
00:58:36
wikipedia where it's like what the fuck is the tea dance yeah and basically like after you know
00:58:40
um sorry to go back grandma and to british um culture but um after tea there was a common thing
00:58:48
like in tea rooms they would have dances so it'd be like early evening fancy okay dress fancy people
00:58:54
right socializing right post tea socializing got it um and that's kind of what this was like why
00:59:00
would you want to speak to anyone else in the hotel room if you're one of those people
00:59:03
right what the fuck yeah so there's there's us upstairs in their room safely watching forensic
00:59:09
files loving life but then there's a bunch of people a ton of fucking people 1600 people
00:59:15
downstairs having a tea dance basically pretending to be fancy being social yeah and being in the new
00:59:22
newly built 40 story hotel that's like for them elegance got it so and then of course the rest of
00:59:28
the hotel is business as usual so there's foot traffic and there's people everywhere um there's
00:59:33
about 40 people standing on or walking across the second story walkway and about 16 to 20 people on
00:59:39
the fourth story walkway so you have to also imagine that you've gone up and say your rooms
00:59:44
are there whatever but you can look out over these walkways and see the lobby and see what
00:59:48
everyone's doing down there. I don't want to. You have to. Picture it now. Look at it.
00:59:55
Bring yourself In your mind eye I don want to Hear the music There it the last place you ever think anything bad would happen A tea dance Yeah Suddenly it 7 p
01:00:05
Patrons of the hotel, and this is so sickening. Oh, I hate it. Hear a popping noises ring out from the fourth story walkway.
01:00:11
The walkway itself drops several inches, pauses for a moment, and then collapses completely onto the second story walkway that sits below it.
01:00:21
And upon impact, the four story takes the second story walkway out with it. And both of them come crashing down onto the tea dance and the lobby below.
01:00:32
How long of a period was it? The seconds that that whole thing happened? Right. It was basically like this had been.
01:00:37
Well, I'll tell you a little bit about it. But yes, it was like and then crash. This is why I don't ever want to leave the house.
01:00:45
I know. And these stories don't help. So keep going. So here we go. So lock in. And feel this fear.
01:00:52
And then let it go later. Okay, so, of course, the people in the lobby, the people at this fucking tea dance are immediately buried in a massive pile of steel, concrete, and glass.
01:01:05
So it's bad news, obviously. Emergency vehicles arrive on the scene. Firefighters.
01:01:11
And this is bad, too. The firefighters use their jacks to lift and remove the rubble and to rescue people.
01:01:18
But, of course, there's so much rubble and it's so heavy because there's so much steel.
01:01:23
They have to get local construction companies to come and bring their own jacks, concrete saws, jackhammers, torches, generators, even cranes to get in and start lifting this rubble off of survivors.
01:01:37
Any type of machinery that would help that rescue mission got brought in. So everybody just like it was like the call went out.
01:01:44
I'm picturing the, remember the, was it 94 earthquake when the twin bridges? In the Bay Area?
01:01:51
Yeah, the Bay Area double story bridges. What was that called? That was the 89 earthquake.
01:01:55
Okay, thank you. And the Bay Bridge collapsed, the top layer collapsed onto the bottom layer.
01:02:00
Right, and I just remember watching the news and, ugh. Horrifying. Horrifying. Yes.
01:02:04
I was nine and I watched the news for the rest of the play. Of course you did. Why wouldn't a nine-year-old be watching the nightly news?
01:02:10
Right. Of course you were. Also, if you haven't, just to slightly silver line that one, having nothing to do with the tragedy of that.
01:02:19
But the new Bay Bridge is so beautiful and amazing to drive over. If you hadn't had the chance, the top level as you're going from the Berkeley side into San Francisco has these spanners.
01:02:32
It is so beautiful and amazing to drive over now. Every time I do it, I love it.
01:02:37
Who knew Karen was a bridgehead? I'm kind of into bridges and connecting with people.
01:02:42
What? Who? What? Who is that girl? Oh, no. Okay. So the chief of Kansas City's emergency medical system was named Dr. Joseph, I'm going to say Wackerly.
01:02:53
Great. Or Wakerly. Okay. Thank you for my permission. He leads the search and rescue mission.
01:03:00
So at his direction, first responders, they set up a morgue in the exhibition area of the hotel on the ground floor, basically, that's right by there.
01:03:09
They have to use the hotel's driveway and front lawn as the triage centers. That's how many people have been injured or killed.
01:03:18
So the victims with the most severe injuries obviously are treated first. Anyone who can still walk is told to just get off the site immediately, like just taken away.
01:03:28
So the triage was basically dedicated to the very, very wounded or mortally wounded.
01:03:35
And that was basically just they needed people out to minimize the chaos. chaos okay so there are living people buried in the rubble obviously and the first responders
01:03:46
have to dig down to them and in doing so they come upon dead bodies that are blocking the way
01:03:53
so these first responders at certain points some of them were forced to dismember dead bodies
01:03:59
to get to trapped survivors underneath that's not something you get past in the weeks and months
01:04:04
after this if you're the first responders i mean no you know absolutely not no and that's part of
01:04:10
the risk and that's part of the sacrifice that first responders make it's like what we're talking
01:04:14
about before where you see you're the you're the person that gets called when the worst thing
01:04:20
happens yeah that takes a toll on anybody totally and that's why like i think i hear often ambulance
01:04:26
drivers do it for like a certain amount of time and then they have to get out yeah because you
01:04:30
can't just keep taking that on no that's you know that's really hard so so yes and this is just like
01:04:36
yeah it's it's the worst case scenario yeah um also inside the hotel the visibility is terrible
01:04:43
right because there's debris and dust in the air and then also um the power got shut off so that
01:04:49
there wouldn't be electrical fires so uh then also the emergency sprinkler system is on shit
01:04:56
because it's been triggered and they can't turn it off. So the lobby starts to flood during this fucking rescue.
01:05:07
So it's fucking like the fucking Poseidon adventure. I don't need to say fucking that much, but it's so upsetting.
01:05:15
So you do and I do. um okay so now the people who are alive under the rubble are are at risk of drowning on top of
01:05:27
fucking everything else there is a survivor named mark williams who tells a story about being trapped
01:05:32
um under a beam both his legs have been dislocated and he the water came up to the
01:05:38
point where he almost drowned they saved him right in time oh he was like on the verge of drowning
01:05:44
And then they finally got to him and got him out. Oh, my God. How horrible is that?
01:05:49
Yeah. The entire rescue operation lasts 14 hours. 29 people are rescued from the debris But by the end of it all 114 people are pronounced dead with an additional 219 people injured Oh my God that so many people
01:06:07
It's so many people. But then if you think about the fact that there were almost 2000 people in
01:06:11
that lobby. Yeah, because 1600 were at the tea dance. But like, you know, there's a bunch of
01:06:16
other people. So obviously, it's so many people. And it's horrifying, but it could have been worse.
01:06:21
Right. I guess you could always say that. OK, so in the wake of the collapse, the local newspaper, the Kansas City Star, hires an architectural engineer named Wayne G. Lischka to investigate what went wrong.
01:06:35
Yes. So three days later, on July 20th, 1981, he finds Wayne finds the original design of the walkways and he sees that they were changed during construction.
01:06:45
The architectural firm was called Jack D. Gillum and Associates. I almost didn't name them because it's such a terrible thing. But this is essentially what happened because it's human error, but also nothing is it's not it's not because people were purposely right. It wasn't. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So that architectural firm drew up the original designs for the walkways.
01:07:09
they planned for there to be three pairs of steel tie rods running straight down from the ceiling
01:07:16
through both the fourth and second floor walkways. So these six rods in total would secure
01:07:22
both of the walkways to the ceilings. The rods would then be secured by nuts and then I wrote
01:07:28
and perhaps bolts because there's nothing funny about this story. So the steel company
01:07:35
who manufactured those rods was called Haven Steel Company. They argued this design wouldn't work.
01:07:40
They said that in order to fasten nuts onto the rods to hold the fourth floor walkway in place,
01:07:46
the entire length of the rod from the fourth floor down would have to be threaded.
01:07:51
So you know how like when you put a bolt on a screw? The whole thing would have to be that way, they were saying.
01:07:56
Because any slight chink in the threading would make it impossible to screw the nut all the way up from the bottom of the rod to the fourth floor walkway.
01:08:05
It would be too delicate to execute. Okay, so Haven Steel Company's solution was instead to have two sets of six rods.
01:08:12
The first set would run from the ceiling to the fourth floor walkway and then would be fastened to the walkway with nuts.
01:08:18
And then the second set of rods would run from the fourth floor walkway down to the second floor walkway fastened by nuts.
01:08:25
The problem with this alternate plan is instead of having the ceiling supporting both sets of walkways, you now have the ceiling supporting the fourth floor walkway and the fourth floor walkway supporting the second floor walkway.
01:08:37
So it's like, not that you need this explained, but it helped me. It's like having two mountain climbers who are rappelling down of the mountain face.
01:08:46
and instead of having both of them have their things planted on top of the cliff going down
01:08:51
it's one guy has it coming down and then the second climber is attached to the first climb right so
01:08:56
one thing goes wrong they're both fucked right and you can't with that kind of like gravity pull
01:09:00
a single attachment and uh you know what i mean they're too dependent interdependent on each other
01:09:06
got it i am uh both an architect and a steel expert um so to make matters worse the original
01:09:13
design that the architecture firm drew up was already bad because it would have only held 60%
01:09:19
of the minimum load required by Kansas City building code. So there was a code issue in the
01:09:26
design. But under the new design plan offered by the Haven Steel Company, the weight bearing capacity
01:09:31
dropped to 30% of the required minimum. So that change of going, oh, we'll just hang the one from
01:09:36
the other made it even worse. Because it didn't have its own support. Right, exactly. Even less
01:09:40
secure got it right thank you so um also on top of that all the bolts are placed directly through
01:09:47
the welded joints in the box beams this is detail but the joints are the weakest part of the beam
01:09:55
so that's basically where the beams bend or like come together got it so um they put all those
01:10:02
that's where they attached everything which is the weakest part of the beam not the middle
01:10:06
the strongest part right right like they they they yeah so like if that had been in the middle if
01:10:11
those uh joints had failed it wouldn't have been as disastrous if they were in the correct place
01:10:16
to hold everything up right because it's like the strength of the beam is in the middle of right not
01:10:20
in the end right um oh i see yeah so the middle has no support right got it so i'm now an architect
01:10:27
i mean this is this is so much bullshitting from me but i think i get it i'm fascinated by this i
01:10:33
I think I get it. And there's good pictures. Obviously, Wikipedia is the main research.
01:10:40
We can say it at the end. Okay. But they have pictures on there showing it. So it's much easier to visualize, obviously, looking at a picture.
01:10:49
Yeah. Visualizing a picture. When did I become like a weird liar? That's what this feels like.
01:10:54
Like I'm lying my way through this. Okay. So the issue ultimately becomes, because of a lack of communication between those two companies,
01:11:02
the steel company and the architect right so the initial plans laid out by the architects were only
01:11:07
meant to be preliminary sketches but they were taken by the haven steel corporation to be the
01:11:13
final design okay and when havens proposed the new bolt fix to put it out on the on the um joints
01:11:20
yeah no one looked into whether or not that would work uh the architects didn't nobody did they just
01:11:27
went by what they already had which wasn't the final they were like we think it would work better
01:11:31
out here. The end. Oh my god. The head engineer at the architecture firm was extremely busy and so
01:11:38
assigned supervision of this build to an associate engineer. And the execs at the steel company pitched their design revision
01:11:46
over the phone and the associate engineer approved it verbally. Yay. And now I go on to
01:11:53
my rant about how much I hate conference calls and how it doesn't work. Yeah. Have everything
01:12:00
face to face that you can. Yeah. Because nobody pays attention on the phone. You don't want to be
01:12:05
on that call anyway. No, of course, you're playing solitaire while everyone's having this conversation.
01:12:09
I'm looking at Instagram cats. It's like reading other emails. Yeah, it's we need to call an end
01:12:16
to conference calls. Joe Schwartz right now. Okay. When investigators later ask the associate
01:12:21
engineer why he approved the revised plan, he says he believed a written request would then be filed
01:12:28
after the phone call, basically everyone thought there was checks and balances systems in place
01:12:33
that were not there. Like a verbal okay does not mean start construction. Exactly. It's kind of like
01:12:38
me where you get upset with me when I do this, like, yep, sure, that sounds good. And I'm like,
01:12:41
I'm going to fucking say no to this later. And then you're like, people think you mean yes.
01:12:45
I'm like, no, I can say no to this later. I just am being nice on the conference call because I
01:12:49
want to get off. Right, exactly. It's conference call politics. That's right. We all get sucked
01:12:53
in. Sure. Sounds great. Send it over. And I'm like, no, don't push that rock down the hill.
01:12:57
now it's going to be a boulder okay um a lot of ptsd from producing television okay so
01:13:04
essentially with the cause of the collapse determined the engineers at gilliman associates
01:13:09
who approved the project were all found responsible of gross negligence misconduct
01:13:13
unprofessional conduct in the practice of engineering by the missouri board of architects
01:13:18
professional engineers and land surveyors so everyone was mad at them all the fucking guys
01:13:24
that wear khakis and put their hands on their hips and look into the distance with a flat hand
01:13:29
above their eyes. Hard hats everywhere. Everywhere. Smashed to the ground, stomped with large,
01:13:35
wonderful timberland boots. So they're charged with, they're initially charged with criminal
01:13:41
charges, but they're eventually dropped. Instead, they just all lost their engineering licenses.
01:13:47
So, of course, obviously people had to pay and, I mean, like things needed to happen and change.
01:13:55
The architecture company is also cleared of criminal negligence, but they lose their engineering license, can no longer operate as an engineering company in Missouri or Kansas.
01:14:04
The victims and their families are awarded a total of about $140 million in judgments and settlements, which is almost $400 million today.
01:14:13
good sometimes you hear these settlements and you're like it's not even a million dollars for
01:14:17
all the victims families and it's fucking ridiculous no i think especially because
01:14:21
this was just it was truly gross negligence where it's just like there's there's no arguing i bet you
01:14:27
both of those companies didn't even argue it's just like this is terrible um the problem is
01:14:33
several rescuers suffered considerable ptsd because of what they had to experience in those
01:14:38
rescues and they actually formed which i love this so much they had to later rely upon each other to
01:14:46
form an informal support group to get through it which is so beautiful because of course that's such
01:14:51
a specific um thing to need support for you're not going to get that from just a normal oh i've
01:14:57
been through something hard or whatever it's like that is a very specific thing that kind of rescue
01:15:03
you know, first responder PTSD. And I bet, you know, those, they're probably taught to like man
01:15:09
up or whatever, and like fucking deal with it and don't reach out. And the fact that not just one
01:15:13
person, but multiple people reached out to be like, I'm not okay. And I need help from this.
01:15:19
Yes. It's just, it's a lesson to all of us. It is. And the fact that it happened in 1981,
01:15:23
back when if you were in therapy, you were out of your fucking mind. Like my mom started going
01:15:30
to therapy when I was in junior high and I was like, uh-oh, like, oh, are we going to
01:15:35
like, is it all falling apart now? Of course I wanted it to, but, um, chaos, chaos, chaos, chaos.
01:15:41
Meanwhile, she was just in like, uh, uh, Al-Anon essentially. She started going to Al-Anon to be like, it is bad when both your parents are alcoholics,
01:15:49
right? Oh, that affected me. That makes sense. Um, yeah, I'm a psychiatric nurse and this sucks.
01:15:55
Yes. And it's why I'm a psychiatric nurse. Right. So, yeah, the beautiful part is that the first responders who went through it came together.
01:16:03
The terrible part is there is a jackhammer operator named Bill Allman who died by suicide because of the experiences that he had in this So it is a true and total tragedy all the way around
01:16:14
Since then, this hotel has been renovated, rebranded several times. The latest was a $13 million renovation.
01:16:22
It's now a Sheraton. We didn't stay there when we were in St. Louis, did we? We could have.
01:16:27
It was completed in 2012. I mean, but here's the weirdest part. And Stephen, correct my, I was going to say correct my Spanish, correct my math if I'm wrong.
01:16:41
But it's been almost 40 years since this happened. 40 years. See. 45 probably. Yeah.
01:16:48
How is it? Wait. I was born in 80. No, I was born in 80 and I'm 38. Do the math.
01:16:54
So minus one. So it's been 37 years. It's been 37 years. How has that happened? Real.
01:16:59
God, that's crazy. So, oh, I just read the last line. and so that is the horrifying and terrifying story of the kansas city hyatt walkway collapse
01:17:10
of 1981 uh amazing not so right good job thank you that was yeah i yeah i have a anxiety disorder
01:17:19
and i don't like leaving the house because so many bad things can happen when you do that
01:17:23
it's true and that's one of them that's one of them but also and i know we talk about stuff like
01:17:28
this a lot but also lots of great things can happen so i think when we dedicate because we
01:17:35
often talk about like why is why does this relieve our anxiety why does this make us feel better and
01:17:40
it's because we can all sit here and go this happened it doesn't happen every day it doesn't
01:17:45
happen every year it fucking almost never happens but it did so like you can get that feeling of
01:17:52
like but now i'm aware yeah so i'm not walking out into this mystery world yeah like ignorant i know
01:17:57
a little something. Yeah, being aware that there's chaos in the world doesn't necessarily need to be
01:18:01
a bad thing. It can just be that you, you know, walk around, walk around, you walk around, it could
01:18:07
just be that you walk around with an awareness, and maybe a little anxiety, but also, you know,
01:18:12
but then there's also the thing of then you can you can free up your mind to then focus on the
01:18:16
good things that happen when you walk out your door. Okay, because I have to remind myself of
01:18:20
this a lot where it's like, if you stay in this house, the same thing's gonna happen. You know,
01:18:24
what's going to happen in this house. You have to get out and be around people and allow good
01:18:29
things to happen so that that is the thing that comes to mind when you look at the Hyatt Hotel
01:18:33
and you're like, great things happen in there. It's not just the disasters and the horror things.
01:18:38
There's room service too. Oh my God. Forensic Files is never not on. That's a miracle.
01:18:45
Yeah. That's a good point to remember is that good things happen too when you leave the house.
01:18:49
Just as often, if not more. That's true. You just have to focus. You have to teach yourself to notice it and pay it and give it as much credence as you do your fears.
01:18:59
Okay. Hey, speaking of. I'm pointing at you, but I mean me. Okay. Three fingers back.
01:19:03
I'm pointing at me and I mean me too. Hey, let's. Is anyone going to point at me?
01:19:07
Let's name one of those good things, shall we? Let's do it. It's fucking hooray time.
01:19:12
Do you want to go first or let me go first? You do it. Okay. So there's this thing called PRP.
01:19:17
it's platelet-rich plasma where they take your blood and put it in a centrifuge and
01:19:22
separate the good stuff and then platelets and then inject it into a painful spot in your body
01:19:30
saved by lower back that is very fucked up with degenerative disc bullshit and that platelet-rich
01:19:36
plasma is supposed to heal that area they use it for like a lot of that's like tennis elbow and
01:19:42
bullshit like rusty stuff yeah so i got that this week oh yeah yeah and it's gonna take a couple
01:19:47
weeks to know if it works but i'm really fucking hopeful there was a murderino who worked in the
01:19:51
office so that was nice and she was very sweet she was at our um halloween show melissa what's up
01:19:56
um yeah so i'm i'm putting it out there because i really want it to work and i'm hopeful that it
01:20:03
will that's great nice not to have back pain all the time anymore that's right great what's yours
01:20:07
Are you going to cry? No. But if I were to I would be fine with it Well I guess I will say this This is like from today And I know I talk about my therapist like she my fucking hooray a lot
01:20:27
It's a very important relationship in our lives. It is. And it also is just this.
01:20:31
I feel like there's this pipeline of information that I get from her. Like all the things I was just saying to you, it's fucking straight out of her mouth.
01:20:37
Yeah. That I've just gone, oh, yeah. Like this idea that you're this way, you're just a way.
01:20:44
And that's your fucking fault. And like too bad for you or whatever is like you.
01:20:48
One of the things I love about therapy is there's a person there going, excuse me, I just have a quick argument for that.
01:20:55
And so whatever thing I put on the table, you know, it's just a person going and she, you know, we've talked about like it's that thing of when you're in a trauma response and you can't tell because you just think you're you just think you're trying to deal with the shit that's going to respond.
01:21:09
right and we were talking about the voice that comes up when you you're experiencing like say
01:21:15
rejection or um you know whatever some negative thing and i have this voice because she okay i've
01:21:21
talked about this but it's the rule of six where you're the thing that you fear you think is
01:21:25
happening and that's your forearm right but then your open hand is the five other possibilities
01:21:30
that could be happening right and you the practice is to go through and just be like
01:21:34
what else could it be besides this thing I've decided? And we were taught, I said, you know, that's all well and good.
01:21:42
You've been telling me to do this for about 15 years. Yeah. But there was a voice in my head that I liked, like, I believe is like the realist who's
01:21:50
always like, well, that's fine. But the truth is, you're just gross. You know the truth.
01:21:54
Stop being sad. Stop being pathetic. You're gross. It seems to be what that voice always says.
01:22:00
Yeah. and the voice says it nicely like warmly it's okay you're just a piece of shit yeah and you
01:22:06
know it too and it's fine yeah so it's not like you can be like you're mean no no no it's like
01:22:11
it's almost like oh this close friend that's just letting me know the reality of it and so then to
01:22:16
me and and she and i talked about this too is like you running through the other scenarios
01:22:20
seems pathetic and immature to me it seems like what a sad person would do when i'm just like
01:22:25
look I'm a realist I get it I'm just gross whatever and so she said this thing she goes
01:22:30
no no no I have that voice too and then she threw her head back and smiled and goes but I'm on to
01:22:35
her oh I'm on to her and I was just like you are the best like because she's not saying from up here
01:22:42
yeah here's your diagnosis and here's what you need to do she's going this is the human
01:22:46
fucking condition yeah this is what we do to ourselves we've and and we're doing it because
01:22:51
we think it's going to keep us safe and secure. And also because it's worked at some point in your life.
01:22:57
Right. And it's done what you needed it to do at some point in your life. Yes. And now you're an adult and you're in different circumstances and it's the thing you know
01:23:04
how to do. So you continue to do it. I do it too. Yeah. You continue to do it because it's always worked and maybe there's a different way.
01:23:10
And I love that she was like, here's, let me show you an example. It's not that you stopped doing that period.
01:23:16
Karen, won't you learn how to fucking do this? Right. It's no, I'm paying attention and I can tell that that's not the right response.
01:23:22
Like that's not the response that feels good to me. Right. That's a different fucking response.
01:23:26
It's like she the other way the metaphor she used is like, you know, in a brilliant mind when he he finally caught on that he have we talked about this?
01:23:36
I've never seen it. Oh, it's really good. But he's gets he has schizophrenia, but he's also this brilliant mathematician.
01:23:41
Yeah. And when he finally catches on that he's having these, not hallucinations, but he's in basically having his like psychotic episode, is all the people that aren't really there that he thinks are there, they never age and he ages.
01:23:57
And he finally at the end of the movie is like, how come you're not as old as I am?
01:24:00
And then the person disappears. You just spoiled it. Guess what? You had fucking 10 years to watch that movie.
01:24:07
It's fair. I did. Oh, I spoiled it for you. I'm sorry. Is that a surprise? Well, no, because, you know, you see it happening where you know that he's in.
01:24:17
He's in that. OK, Bruce Willis is dead. He's dead the whole time. But anyway it that thing where like when you when things feel dire all of this is to say when things feel dire and black and white and my life is on the line everything on the line
01:24:32
If one move happens, this is going to be if Georgia says yes on the phone, that's what we're going to have to do.
01:24:36
The end. I can't take it back. There's nothing. And I panic. And it's that thing of like you have to go or nothing happens.
01:24:43
And everyone knows that this is all conversation and it's no big deal. And you can like walk it backwards.
01:24:49
Or if I do fuck something up, maybe it can be corrected at some point. It's not like I didn't sign anything.
01:24:55
Your Honor. Show me my signature. Prove it. Prove I fucking said it. And then they're playing tapes back from conference call.
01:25:04
Here's you. Sorry, we already had it. So, I mean, whatever. It's like perspective.
01:25:08
But it's like the idea that we can even be having that conversation. at this point when I've lived in basically trauma pocket panic mode for like so long.
01:25:18
Yeah. That fucking hooray for perspective, I guess. I love that. Is what I'm trying to say.
01:25:22
I'm going to use it too. I'm going to steal your fucking hooray and I'm going to try to do it.
01:25:27
I mean, same. That's the name. I wish I could see Karen. She's grabbing her wrist, her like forearm.
01:25:32
That's what she does every time. Puts her five hands up. That's the new murderino salute.
01:25:37
Yeah. Five fingers. It's the rule of six. Yeah. grab your forearm and and then spread your hand
01:25:42
like it's a high five yeah that you're keeping yourself from giving another person
01:25:46
but grip really hard because this is difficult just really really hard I'm trying really hard
01:25:50
strangle strangle that first thing that you assume right and really try to get those five other fingers going
01:25:55
and then count five other options I love it it's really hard alright thanks for listening
01:26:02
you guys um yeah thanks for being here with us yeah we hope you can use some of our bullshit
01:26:09
to help your bullshit. And don't be afraid to send your bullshit in to us and let us have yours at
01:26:15
myfavoritemurder.blogspot.org. Right? No. No? Please go look at our new website at myfavoritemurder.com.
01:26:23
Yeah. It's pretty good. Thanks for sticking with us. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
01:26:28
Goodbye! Elvis, you want a cookie? Hey, everyone. It's Kel Penn. I'm inviting you to join
01:26:37
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