00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
00:00:33
Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
00:00:39
selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
00:00:45
and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
00:00:51
This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
00:00:58
or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. Where does summer take you?
00:01:05
Maybe it's a coastal road trip or a quiet morning with the windows wide open. Summer smells like bright citrus, warm sand,
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Find your summer escape today. Visit Pura.com to learn more. Goodbye. My Savior What's up, Denver?
00:01:50
Are you on? Are you on? I'm on? Is this on? I'm on, you're on. This is on, girl.
00:02:06
It's on, isn't it? Is this the fucking Super Bowl? What's happening? What's happening?
00:02:20
Shit. Take us off camera three and four, please. Truly. No, wait. Is this fucking WrestleMania or what?
00:02:29
Or what? That's right. We're cross-promoting to other interests. That's right. There's other interests in the world.
00:02:39
That's where my husband is right now, WrestleMania. Yeah. He fucking ditched us.
00:02:43
No, it's fine. He's got to live his life. Yeah. For one weekend a year. you're so generous that way
00:02:51
I am it's nice wait we should say oh my god look at these it's a giant Elvis head
00:03:02
and a giant Frank George head oh my god it's alright but she's really disappointed in you
00:03:09
I have to live with a pet who stares at me like why can't you just feed me why can't you walk me again
00:03:18
why can't I get under the covers on your bed these were delivered to us backstage
00:03:26
but we didn't make them for ourselves that would be really weird that would be so awesome
00:03:32
have you finished your head we are leaving tomorrow Georgia I'm not telling you again
00:03:38
you can't check in on the plane you have to get there an hour early so we bought these seats
00:03:44
on the plane they wore seat belts yeah if you can bring your emotional support puppy i'm allowed to bring my
00:03:51
emotional support giant cardboard cut out of my cat's head my pet is the least emotionally
00:03:58
supportive animal or being on this planet oh mine is there's been times where like you know when
00:04:06
you're like oh i bet you my my pet knows how i feel knows my feelings there's been times when
00:04:12
like things have happened. I'd be like in the kitchen crying, like leaning against the counter,
00:04:15
like, Oh fuck. And George literally walks through like treats, treats. You're standing by the treat
00:04:22
thing. If you, if you're there and crying, you might as well grab me a treat. Maybe she, I want
00:04:27
to defend her for a minute. Maybe she's like, you know what you should try? Treats. It always makes
00:04:33
me feel better. You know what? If you're sad right now, I see you bawling right by the treats.
00:04:37
try it. I think it's very clear that I enjoy my fucking treats. That's just, that's just the truth. Oh, thank you. I thank you and my Spanx thank you. So these say
00:04:51
on the back, we made these for the show, but giant animal heads aren't allowed. I guess you,
00:04:57
I guess you know the rules can have them. Oh, thanks. Oh, thanks. Oh, this is kind of debris
00:05:04
that you brought in and it was going to get thrown in a dumpster and they're like maybe they'll like
00:05:09
them mine says security took these from us and then there's like a weird drawing of what kind
00:05:16
of looks like a pac-man ghost and a talking bubble and then there's an arrow and it says
00:05:21
that's a broken heart but i'm drunk that's why they took those from you not because you're not
00:05:32
allowed to have animal heads. It's because they could tell you were shit-faced. Because you were standing in the lobby like,
00:05:35
I don't get used to them? Hold on. I'm going to tell this story. Let me tell you.
00:05:48
Oh. This is by Ben Nyers, by the way. Thank you, Ben. For making us that. Salidie I can read your name Salid Sweetie Oh yeah Thank you I sorry I can read your name The loge is being represented Is that what that area is called
00:06:05
Upper balcony. We wouldn't have been able to see it anyways. Section double... Double F25.
00:06:13
Yes. Thanks, guys. Now what the fuck do we do with these? I mean... I don't know.
00:06:20
Okay. Okay. Okay, yeah. You're not drunk, are you? Okay. Thank you. Thank you. We want these back.
00:06:28
We won't leave them. Thank you. Speaking of drunk secrets, I just remember last night when we were getting back to the hotel,
00:06:35
we fucking literally ran into a person that was drunk Karen. It was. It was amazing.
00:06:43
Her name was Kate. Yeah. And she was, but here's the thing. She was repping. It wasn't sloppy.
00:06:49
It was very pulled together. Her outfit looked, stop it. I'm saying on the slop scale
00:06:55
including the fact that she we walked by there because we were just walking in the lobby and she looks
00:07:01
and goes you too that's how the conversation started and she was like this adorable 23 year old
00:07:09
and she was, it was a bachelorette party it was a bachelorette fucking it party and her outfit
00:07:14
covered her vagina and her nipples like that was it and I was like, it was actually the fact
00:07:21
that she was drunk and you couldn't see anything obscene it was like great is what i'm saying yeah
00:07:25
you're right she had it pulled drunkenly together which is the kind i like where she's having a
00:07:31
conversation with you like we had a fun active conversation it was great and then we were like
00:07:36
bye laters and then she walked away i was like like she was able to hold it for us
00:07:42
and then when she turned to her insanely shit-faced drunken bachelorette party friends
00:07:48
who are holding the elevator so they could take pictures of themselves inside an elevator.
00:07:55
And we were about to go in the elevator. We were like, you know, we'll wait a minute.
00:07:57
Nope, don't. We were like, circle up. We need a team meeting so we don't have to go into that elevator with those drunk girls.
00:08:04
Kate literally goes, I have a secret to tell you. I swear to God. I have a secret.
00:08:09
And the secret was that her friends at work have been bragging that they were going to
00:08:12
my favorite murder show that night. She took a photo of us and she's like, I'm going to show those fuckers.
00:08:17
And I bet you this morning she looked at her phone and was like, what the fuck? How did that happen?
00:08:21
I bet she didn't remember. She's like, who is walking around Phoenix with cardboard cutouts of those two?
00:08:26
Those two. Those two. I like it when, here's my favorite thing. You don't have to abide by these rules in any way, but if you want to.
00:08:36
I like it if you talk to me like we just were talking two minutes ago, and now we're talking a little bit more.
00:08:42
That's the most natural way to talk to a stranger. that isn't like, you don't go like,
00:08:45
or go like, okay, check your wallet, make sure everything's fine. It's just someone that's like,
00:08:51
oh my God, you're already in the party. I always like, do we have to go to this bachelorette party now?
00:08:57
Yeah. Did we just make permanent friends with Kate in that way where now we're in this till the bitter end?
00:09:03
She was like, they're going to be mad that we're missing this bachelorette party.
00:09:06
And I think they're going to get divorced anyway. I mean, this girl was so young, you guys.
00:09:12
Wait until you're 49 to get married, at least. Oh, then. Is that what you said? I don't know.
00:09:22
Oh. Oh, or were you trying to do a Stephen call-out? Oh. I don't know. Stephen. He's not here.
00:09:32
Aw. What about this? We have another giant thing. Oh, yeah, guys. Denver. You're all about giant shit.
00:09:39
Denver. Take that off. Denver. There's a theme and we like it. Here we go. One, two.
00:09:44
One and two. I pull in. You pull off. Three and four. We've got it. Shimmy, shimmy, shimmy.
00:09:50
Okay. We unroll. Is this the top? Yes. Look, it's a great thing, but we've also always wanted to be able to hold one of these.
00:09:56
Ready? A giant check. It's a giant check. That's the Denver Murderinos. Look what you guys did.
00:10:09
Amazing. $3,800 you guys collected for Safe House Denver. Actually, $4,000. Actually, $4,000.
00:10:18
$4,000, you guys. That's incredible. Amazing. It's made out to the bank of SSDGM, and it says,
00:10:28
Stay saved and do God's mission. Amen. Amen. And then the memo. The memo says, Hi, Mimi.
00:10:39
Hi, Mimi. Oh no, what if this is really their check number? Oops. What if they put their check number on accident?
00:10:45
Everyone's already taken a picture of it and they're withdrawing from that checking account.
00:10:50
Good job, Denver Murderinos. Thank you, Denver Murderinos. Way to go. You're also really good at making giant checks.
00:10:58
And we're good at holding them. We're going to walk into Chase Bank tomorrow with that and demand they cash it.
00:11:06
We saw that when we unrolled that. I got a little it made me choke up a little bit
00:11:11
but all things considered I also choked up because I read an article about Loretta Lynn's
00:11:18
40th or 50th anniversary in show business and I was like god damn she's been doing it herself
00:11:23
and she was telling me about it as I was putting my makeup on and I look up and I went you're crying
00:11:28
like telling me about it and she was crying and then you unraveled the check and started crying again
00:11:34
it was kind of a disaster backstage look and I was like, I'm on drugs. I was going to say you should try a treat, but you already got those.
00:11:44
No, that's the last thing I fucking need right now. I was just very moved because Amanda Shires,
00:11:50
this is very sidebar but Amanda Shires and Brandi Carlisle and two other women they did for Loretta Lynn they got together as like kind of a super group and did a bunch of her covers in front of her for her and it was the first time they ever performed
00:12:06
Beautiful. As a band. And they fucking apparently knocked it out of the park. None of this is relevant or interesting to you,
00:12:13
but it made me cry. And everything is therapy to me, so shut up. Speaking of, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.
00:12:21
Oh, hi! Thanks! This is Karen Kilgara. This is Georgia Hartstark. Thank you. Do you want to talk about your outfit at all?
00:12:35
Tell us stuff. Let us hear that. Oh, yeah. This old thing. What did you call them shoes last night?
00:12:45
These are my old nun shoes. Full nun shoes. My evil nun shoes. These are the kind of shoes in the 90s I would wear.
00:12:53
than my Aunt Ping would say, oh, are those your orthopedic shoes? You got something wrong with your feet?
00:13:00
I'm like, no, I'm cool. Shut up. I don't know what to say except for that I got this
00:13:06
because I have to wear things other than pajamas all day in public because of trout face.
00:13:15
I was like, just every piece of clothing I find is the worst. And my friend's like,
00:13:19
just let me recommend some stylists because it was what she did for a living. And I got a Dell stylist.
00:13:28
Not a stylist from a Dell computer. A Dell. Because it kind of sounded like that.
00:13:33
Yeah, she designed a silver box laptop that weighed like 22 pounds in 1997. No. So she got me all these dresses
00:13:45
and this one is from a brand called Eloquii who gave it to me for free. Yes. How about your beautiful dress?
00:13:51
My dress and my shoes and my toe bandage. You can see. Can we get a close up on the toe bandage, everybody?
00:14:00
I'm going to get in so much trouble from my, you know, I just took the bandage off myself.
00:14:05
And I'm this close to taking the stitches out myself. What is wrong with me? You love sepsis.
00:14:11
That's what it is. You want a good infection. I really do. Right in that bone. Do not do it.
00:14:17
Okay. like the third day she had she texts me a picture of the bandage off can I tell this absolutely
00:14:24
and then she goes I'm re-banding I'm re-bandaging it with a panty liner I thought I was a genius I had had wine and I was like yeah it's like um you know
00:14:39
uh in on the field and like fucking you're like mash it's like triage yeah I felt like such a
00:14:47
feminist show. And you know, it is clean. It's clean and it wasn't scented, so it's not
00:14:51
like it has all these chemicals. Good, yes. Great. Promo code murder. The darn things got winged. The darn things
00:15:01
got winged. Somebody, because of that reference, somebody fucking sent us. They found it?
00:15:09
Yeah, well it was a reel of basically tampon commercials from the 80s and it's one of the funniest things of all time.
00:15:15
We should start playing that before our show is just on the video. Yes. Of just hand after hand pouring
00:15:23
blue liquid onto a maxi pad. Just over. Why? Women being told they can play fucking tennis
00:15:28
in a giant pad. Ride a horse. Ride a horse. Bleed all over. A horse is back. It's what they say in the commercial.
00:15:37
Because it wasn't my idea. I wish they would do a real commercial where it's like
00:15:42
you gotta lay around all you fucking want in this giant pad. there's no blue liquid involved,
00:15:50
but you might cry about Loretta Lynn. Get ready. Get ready. The truth about period.
00:15:57
We're bringing it across the nation. We got to come out with our own tampons that are just like slop around,
00:16:06
wear this on the outside type of shit. No. Stop it. We would never do that. Please think of the men in the audience tonight.
00:16:15
Please. For once in your lives, ladies. For once, will you, this podcast, please consider how disgusting you are.
00:16:26
Um, should we sit down? Is it time? I guess. Okay. Oh. Thanks. Yes. Look at that.
00:16:34
Yeah. How about these bad boys? Reminds me of my days up in the bar. The usual. Which is anything.
00:16:43
It doesn't matter. Pour it all into one glass. It tastes the same to me. It's called a Long Island iced tea.
00:16:49
It's called I Started at Three. Try to beat me. You're the bartender. What are we doing?
00:16:57
Karen. Okay. We also, I mean, not to tell you every single private thing about us,
00:17:05
but we also did split a four-hour energy shot. I've never. Five-hour? It's not a brand version of five-hour.
00:17:13
Is it a seven-hour energy shot? And it's now. I can't handle it. We drank two and a half.
00:17:18
One and a half. Anyway, it's five hours. Just a five hour. Yeah. Okay. Oh, God. We should start an off-brand one called four hour energy.
00:17:26
Four hour energy. We're like, it's a little bit chiller. Yeah, yeah. But it'll get you through that test.
00:17:32
I've never had it before. Oh, get ready. And it was. Well, I feel like I am. And that's the problem is that I have.
00:17:41
There is this kind of feeling of like, it's like the roller coaster starting. Yeah.
00:17:45
We're not moving, right? We're not. Well, we're in high altitude, so maybe that was a mistake.
00:17:50
Oh, yeah. I said that right after I took a sip of it. I was like, oh, too late now.
00:17:55
There you go We were in the backseat on the way over here and I was like look what I have in my purse And I was like let do it before And it sounded like I was trying to get Karen to do meth
00:18:05
She goes, let's do it before the show. And I was like, I've never done it before.
00:18:08
I was like, oh, it's great. It's the best. And I'm sure I tried. I went, it's my hour energy.
00:18:14
I just didn't want our driver to think we were talking about meth. We're old and boring.
00:18:18
Yeah. Anyway, meth is making a comeback, everybody. It's for fun and young people.
00:18:27
It went away for a while, remember? No, you don't, because it hasn't. Do you want to tell everyone about...
00:18:36
I can't... Sorry. I don't want to see it. Okay, guys, this is a true crime comedy podcast.
00:18:41
That's right. Thank you. We agree. Thank you. We feel the need to explain at the beginning,
00:18:54
because everybody that listens to this podcast comes to our live shows. Thank you so much for doing that.
00:19:00
It's so fun and exciting, but many of you insist upon bringing people who do not listen to this podcast
00:19:08
and don't necessarily like the idea of this podcast. I don't know why. It seems rude.
00:19:15
It seems like you need to go to therapy, but on your own time, to those people, we call you drag-alongs,
00:19:23
and we just want to tell you. That if you are offended by the idea of true crime and comedy going together, we understand because those two things, the worst thing that could happen to somebody and comedy do not belong together.
00:19:34
It's not appropriate and we don't think it's appropriate. We don't think murder is funny.
00:19:39
We just think we're funny. And we like to have fun. And the way we process the thing that we're obsessed with, because we've both been obsessed with true crime since we were like 12 years old.
00:19:50
And we like to look at the worst things in the world and try to see if we can cope with them.
00:19:54
but a lot of the ways we cope with them is through comedy and humor and so if that offends you we
00:20:00
invite you cordially to get the fuck out right now be our guest your friend will meet you in the
00:20:10
lobby by the merch table afterwards if you could go get us four more five-hour energy drinks
00:20:17
I feel very hot right now Uh oh Feel my neck, am I really hot? Oh shit, you're having an iron rush
00:20:25
This is stage one, man Did you see that dragon? I just stopped wearing antiperspirant
00:20:34
This is a bad time to do that You're going straight deodorant or none at all? Straight deodorant, I would never offend anyone that way
00:20:42
Is it pretty bad? I love it, but Wait, your own body odor or the deodorant? My own body odor.
00:20:49
Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense. You made it. I made it. Be proud. It's beautiful.
00:20:53
It's me. I just happen to smell like fucking lavender all the time. Okay, sorry.
00:21:00
I'm sorry all the girls in the school hate me. Stem I thought. Summer is all about saying yes, going out, and bringing the mess home in your car.
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00:21:34
Goodbye! While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:21:41
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
00:21:52
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:21:58
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
00:22:06
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far-off concept.
00:22:14
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
00:22:20
If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about.
00:22:26
It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn. Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible, spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers, and comedy.
00:22:40
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00:22:47
If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:22:57
Goodbye. Goodbye. I think you're first tonight. Yes. Thank you. Denver. Denver. You guys are so good to us.
00:23:13
You're number one, truly. We like it here a lot. Yeah. Not just because weed is very legal.
00:23:21
I'm going to do the kidnapping of Adolph Coors III. Oh, yeah. This is one of those things that you're like, I've heard about something about a beer and a kidnapping,
00:23:34
and you didn't really know if you're not from here. But now I know. And you do too, but I'm going to tell you anyways.
00:23:41
That's what it's all about on this show. I'm going to retell you the story you know worse than you heard it the first time.
00:23:48
Let's see what happens. That's right. Catch the mistakes. And don't tell me, though.
00:23:52
I don't want to hear the mistakes. No, of course not. Okay. Oh, I got a lot of information from a Forensic Files episode.
00:23:58
And There's a Denver Post article by Kevin Vaughn that's really great, too. So, man, I took some notes.
00:24:06
I forgot to write them down. Okay. Okay. The name of the book, the fucking... Do you want to enter your memory palace right now?
00:24:13
I don't have one. Okay. It's been desecrated. Why? By years and years of invaders.
00:24:20
Yeah. Okay. The Coors family. I've heard of them. Okay. I've enjoyed their products.
00:24:26
Really a fan. Truly. Is it Coors that your dad likes? No, Budweiser. Okay. I know.
00:24:35
I did the... Look. Listen. Look and listen. And drink your fucking beer. Can I just do an impression of my dad?
00:24:44
If my dad had to be here to defend himself right now, he'd go, hey, this ain't happy birthday.
00:24:51
It doesn't mean anything. He's been saying it to me all my life. It's scary and weird and intimidating.
00:24:56
It makes you stop talking. And then it makes you think for like four days where it's like, it's not his birthday or my birthday.
00:25:04
Or like, what's the threat here? What's happening? Yeah. But it worked. It calmed you down.
00:25:12
It works. That's a takeaway for all of you. Take that home and use it at will. Okay.
00:25:19
Well, so here's what happened. We talked about Coors and Bud and the thing. And Vince's favorite beer is Coors.
00:25:25
He always gets Coors backstage. Because Laura Kilgarer's favorite beer is Coors, as is Adrienne Colasingham's, who's here tonight, my other sister.
00:25:34
What's up? They're Coors Light people. I am a terrible wife and can never remember if it's Coors or Budweiser that he likes.
00:25:43
So the other night I was like, I was ordering a bottle of wine. I was like, I'm going to surprise him with a thing.
00:25:48
Is it Budweiser or is it Coors? And I was like, I should text Karen and ask her.
00:25:51
And I'm like, no, I know it's Budweiser. And I brought it home and he's like, no, I'll drink anything.
00:25:58
he's so sweet how long have you guys been together long time very long time very long time
00:26:06
i mean it's just keep it fresh i think you're keeping it fresh nobody should make any assumptions
00:26:11
in a relationship well now i'll just think kidnapping cores vince loves kidnapping vince
00:26:16
loves cores right now i know okay the cores family has been making beer in their golden
00:26:24
Colorado brewery since 1873. Good job. Golden Colorado. They were Prussian immigrants and they
00:26:35
turned it into, they have since turned it into the fifth largest brewery in the world, but back in
00:26:39
like 1960, it was kind of a still a mom and pop, like not a, like a family owned local big time
00:26:44
brewery. And that was like what everyone loved, you know. She doesn't have to tell you. Your dad
00:26:50
Your grandpa. You remember. Okay. By 1960... Your mom. Let's just say it. By 1960,
00:26:59
44-year-old Adolf, who went by ad... Good. I think that's a great call. Anybody in this room named Adolf,
00:27:08
don't be afraid to call yourself ad and walk away from that full name. Yeah. I mean, because he was
00:27:14
Adolf Coors III, so they were like, nope, we're going to keep using that name. We don't care.
00:27:20
We had it before. We're going to do it after. You're not the boss of us. Sorry. We make beer.
00:27:25
We don't like the name Stewart. You can fucking keep it. Right? Yes. Okay, so he's the grandson of the founder,
00:27:35
and he's the CEO of the company now in 1960. He's a father of four, and he's one of the state's best-known
00:27:42
and most influential citizens. Harry, that's not him. What the hell is that? That's mine.
00:27:49
What did you do? This is, well, they just gave it away. Oh, shit. Jay fucked up.
00:27:55
Oh, I think he thought I meant, no, that was me. What? Steven, you didn't do anything.
00:28:01
Steven, you're fired. Steven, you're fired. Shit, did we just give away your story?
00:28:06
Yeah. Oh, no, I don't know what it is. No, good. That's all that matters in this podcast world.
00:28:13
What do we do now? What happened? Are they all yours? Let's check it out. Look. Okay.
00:28:18
Okay, stop. Oh, was that him? Yeah, stop. Okay. He thought I meant as a bit at the top.
00:28:24
Okay, do you want to explain it now or wait until later? It's not a bit at the top.
00:28:27
It's for my story. I used the wrong language. I was crying about country music. I don't know.
00:28:34
Why do I have to keep justifying what I do to you? Well, I don't know what that is, and I'm excited to find out.
00:28:40
Okay. But in the meantime. Just know that we're never going to look at it again,
00:28:43
because I would have to go back through all your pictures to get to it. Right. So should we study it now?
00:28:49
No. Okay. Well, there's eight off course. Look at this guy. There's eight off course.
00:28:55
Pretty hot. Remember last night when I put up a lineup of, I put up a lineup of like three convicts
00:29:04
and Karen was like, I guess I'd pick that one. You don't have to pick one. I'm permanently in sixth grade.
00:29:12
I can't, I don't, you line up three guy pictures and you have to marry one. I call that one.
00:29:20
That's Adolph. Ad. Ad. Let's call him Ad. Let's call him Ad. AD. Ad Rock. Okay. I wish that tie was a little wider, but other than that, he's great.
00:29:29
You're good with it. All right. So on the morning of February 9th, 1960, Adolph Coors gets into his station wagon and
00:29:35
starts his normal drive from his home west of Denver to the brewery 12 miles away in Golden,
00:29:41
Colorado. Sorry, really quick. He is the heir to the Coors fortune and he drives a station wagon.
00:29:48
I just want to say, keeping it real, add the third, keeping it real. That right Later that day a milkman he never makes it to work and later that day a milkman finds Coors Abandoned Station Wagon on the dilapidated one Turkey Creek Bridge
00:30:08
Oh, that bridge is so scary. It's so dilapidated. It's so dilapidated. It's just like one car, so you have to wait for other cars.
00:30:19
And every monsoon season, they have to reweave it as a village. Sorry, I've been watching a lot of National Geographic lately.
00:30:28
Okay. So they find the car and the engine still running and the radio's on. Uh-oh.
00:30:35
When investigators arrive, they find a large bloodstain in the dirt, and in the creek below, they find a lens from Adolf Kors glasses and two hats.
00:30:44
One is his baseball cap. He's also wearing a baseball cap, but so down to earth.
00:30:48
I know. And a pipe? I don't know. And whistling? Okay. I mean. And they also find a brown fedora, a mysterious brown fedora.
00:30:58
I mean, when are brown fedoras not mysterious? True. Could he have been wearing the baseball hat over the fedora?
00:31:04
Like, I'm going to go to work today and change it up at lunch and freak everybody out.
00:31:09
Like, was he a fun-loving course? Maybe he was like, I'm going to show them that I wear a lot of different hats in this business, in this company.
00:31:16
And he has to hold his finger exactly like this. I'm going to show them. Get ready for this, guys.
00:31:20
It's a play on words about the thing I put on intentionally. the worst kind of comedy.
00:31:28
Okay, so the Sheriff's Department issued an all-points bulletin for Adolph Coors, but no one reports seeing him.
00:31:34
And the next morning, his wife receives a typed letter in the mail. And it's a ransom note that reads,
00:31:40
Mrs. Coors, your husband has been kidnapped. His car is by Turkey Creek. We know.
00:31:47
Call the police or FBI. He dies. Cooperate. He lives. Doesn't this sound like the JonBenet Ramsey?
00:31:54
Yeah, it does. It's creepy. We have no desire to commit murder. All that we want is, here's my emphasis, that money.
00:32:04
Yeah, all we want is that money. Deliver immediately after receiving call. Any delay will be regarded as a stall to set up a stakeout.
00:32:14
If you follow the instructions, he will be released unharmed within 48 hours after the money is received.
00:32:19
So, the letter's unsigned. the kidnapper's demand is half a million dollars for Coors' safe return
00:32:24
and it instructs Mrs. Coors to take out a classified ad for a tractor in the Denver Post and that's how
00:32:30
he'll know that she received it and she's like let's do it. For like to sell a tractor?
00:32:35
Yeah, like a trickeroo. You know. Sure. Does that make sense? Yes. Sorry, that was the kidnapper's idea?
00:32:46
The kidnapper was like, so I know you get this, put an ad for a tractor. And don't
00:32:51
put, I'm like, hey, kidnapper. Picture of a tractor. Please return my husband. Don't do that part. No, it's like, be cool, be cool, be cool.
00:33:01
Yeah. Be cool. Be cool like tractors are cool. Okay, great. Got it. Be cool. Yes.
00:33:07
After the kidnapping and murder of the Lindbergh baby back in 1932. Oh, you don't tell me. I know
00:33:12
that. I mean. Did I get you wet? No. Okay, that's what these are for. Oh, we each have our own
00:33:18
towel. I know, I took yours, I'm sorry. It's great, it's like Rocky. When we finish up,
00:33:25
whoo! Just put one under. That actually helped. Okay. Just in case, just in case.
00:33:36
You spill your soup? Crumbs. Oh man, I slept with so many tortilla chip crumbs in my bed last night.
00:33:44
When I got out of bed this morning, it was like, oh, I'm gross. That's the beauty of hotel living. It's the beauty of your
00:33:50
husband can't come to this one weekend. Yeah, so you're like, chip bed. I've been casting. Yeah. It's pretty great.
00:33:57
You actually put chips in the bed where you're like, you guys, go to sleep. I already told you.
00:34:02
Five more minutes, I'm turning out that light. Then she eats them real fast. Aww.
00:34:09
I thought everyone had the same eating disorder as me. We do. Anthropomorphize your Tostitos
00:34:19
With me That's your new book Sorry, I'm not talking anymore And you are talking I love 17 hour energy drinks
00:34:30
Promo code murder Call us, 5 hour energy Okay, here's what happened Okay, after the Lillenberg baby
00:34:43
In the kidnapping in 1932 when we all know, we listen to Karen's story, the Lindbergh baby got killed or was murdered.
00:34:50
Kidnapping had become a federal offense. Great. That's a great idea. That is a good plan.
00:34:55
So Adolf Coors Jr., Adolf III's father, Two. Yeah. So Junior called III's father.
00:35:07
Two. Oops. Okay. he calls up his best buddy because remember they're rich white men
00:35:18
J. Edgar Hoover personally and he's like yo can you help me out bro and he's like
00:35:26
hold on let me take my slip off really quick I'm not kink shaming I wish he had done it
00:35:33
more and then he would have been less of a weird creep so the FBI of course like sweeps right in
00:35:39
they take over the investigation the Coors family tells the investigators that they'll do fucking
00:35:43
anything to get their husband and father home safely. The family is worth millions, so money's not an issue.
00:35:48
Let's fucking do this. They get the ransom money together, and they buy the weird tractor ad that we don't really understand.
00:35:55
And they wipe by the telephone for instructions on where to deliver it but the kidnapper never contacts them again So that not fair
00:36:05
No. I wonder, yeah, that's not cool. The FBI's document and analysis study, the type ransom note.
00:36:13
Okay. They study the type ransom note, and they dust it for fingerprints. They don't find any, and they, you know,
00:36:20
they do the whole thing that we all know they do now, which is like look for weird type thingies and be like,
00:36:24
what manufacturer of typewriter is this? Let's go back and see who bought those in the past two months and stuff.
00:36:29
Stuff we know, but like in 1960, I think that wasn't so common. So they find, and they also know that there's no typos or messed up keystrokes.
00:36:37
They're like, this person's smart. Or a secretary. Right. So they figure out the typewriter is from a manufacturer called Royalite Printable Typewriters.
00:36:49
It's sold widely in department stores and other outlets throughout the U.S. They start looking for the typewriter to match with this description.
00:36:58
And meanwhile, they have a couple other leads to pursue. The most promising is one from a man who had seen a car parked near the kidnapping site on the day of the kidnapping.
00:37:09
This dude had been near your favorite bridge, Turkey Creek Bridge. Oh, I just can't even think about it.
00:37:16
Don't cry. She's dilapidated one way. So here's what he was doing out there. He was guarding his mines.
00:37:24
Yeah, guarding his mines. He was a miner, and he was guarding his mines. Oh, I've actually, like, this is a really obscure photo I found of him.
00:37:35
Wait, that's, no, wait, that's the ransom note. He's really thin. I was able to find this really obscure photo of him.
00:37:46
Remember when I started? remember in the airport this morning when i started cracking up and hitting my laptop from
00:37:56
you and go don't look don't look don't look and you're like what's wrong with you and i'm like
00:38:00
nothing i try to tell georgia over and over like when i don't have my glasses on
00:38:09
you could you could hold up the entire story and i wouldn't be able to read it and still anytime she's got something like this going she's like don't look
00:38:17
I don't want to ruin a surprise they don't work you're safe so he's guarding his mine
00:38:24
as you do you want to talk about him some more? well no I was just going to is that from like a
00:38:29
sugar corn pops box or something? I think it's like a shutterstock help the miner
00:38:33
out of his to find Alfred Coors the third yeah I'm sure it's illegal for me to have this
00:38:39
yeah and use it and make shirts of it but you mean our new merch? our new merch?
00:38:47
That's how they went broke. They got sued up the last. They got sued by that little fucking miner.
00:38:55
But sorry, can I just ask, who was protecting his mines? He was. Who's he? The miner.
00:39:03
I know. Wait, what? Oh, no. But where did the miner come from in the story? He's under the bridge?
00:39:13
Yeah, he's like near the bridge. He's in and of the bridge in the area surrounding the bridge.
00:39:18
There's probably a mine right there, and he's there that day. Okay. Maybe there was a threat going on.
00:39:26
I don't know. Maybe it was coyotes. I don't know. Somebody, a coyote typed up a letter to the miner.
00:39:31
You better watch that fucking mine. Yeah, I want to add it for a tractor. Okay. So this dude had been hanging out there.
00:39:40
Okay. Protecting his goddamn mines. With a big smile on us. And he saw a car there.
00:39:46
It was an early 1950s model of a Mercury sedan that was, like, bright yellow. And he had remembered part of the license plate because he was paranoid and fucking thought it was someone coming to disturb his minds.
00:39:59
Sorry, but it's 1960-something, right? Yeah, 60. I mean, like, I'm sorry, isn't being a miner kind of old-fashioned?
00:40:07
Is he, like, a time traveler? He would get angry when people would come to disturb his minds.
00:40:14
Picture comedy. Best feeling I've ever had is when I found these photos. Somebody was all over Getty Images, just cartoon minor, angry minor.
00:40:35
Do we have more? No. Sorry. I just, I just, that's it. Because there hasn't been a minor around here in 25 years.
00:40:44
It's getting hacky. We need fresh ones. No, it's not. That's it. That's just it.
00:40:52
So he had the partial license plate, and the police find four Mercury Sedans with that same partial license plate.
00:40:58
The FBI checks all of them out, and one catches their attention. It's registered to a man named Walter Osborne,
00:41:04
who had bought the car just a month earlier. And when they go to Osborne's apartment in downtown Denver, it's empty.
00:41:10
He'd move out the day after the kidnapping and left no forwarding address. Guilty.
00:41:14
So, a maid who cleaned his room said she had seen guns in his room, and a paperback copy of Robert Travers' book, Anatomy of a Murder,
00:41:24
is inconspicuously laying in the room. What's interesting, coincidentally, is that the cover of Anatomy of a Murder is that angry minor.
00:41:34
Isn't that weird and unnerving? Sorry. The dumpster behind the apartment, the investigators find empty boxes for a pair of handcuffs and leg restraints.
00:41:50
Agents dust the room for prints and when they find prints and when they run them 1960s style so I don know how and where They had eight other prints to check them against Yeah They match not a dude named Osborne but a guy named Joseph Corbett
00:42:08
He's a 31-year-old man. He's a convicted killer, and then he escaped from fucking prison.
00:42:13
Whoa. Oh, shit. The cops are like, well, time to go to the bar, right? I mean, that's it.
00:42:19
Free cores? Let's go get our free cores that we're going to get. So this dude, Joseph Corbett, he's actually a Fulbright scholar with a genius level IQ.
00:42:30
It's like 150 or something. Nice. Which is high. Hey. Yeah. He attended University of Oregon.
00:42:35
He had been on track for medicine. That's right. I mean. He was on track for medical school, but then he got into a fight with, he had like picked
00:42:46
up a hitchhiking Air Force sergeant and shot him in 1951. He claims it was self-defense, but the man had been shot in the back of the head.
00:42:57
But you can always. Wait, the man had been shot in the back. What do you mean? But that guy pulled the gun real fast over his shoulder.
00:43:08
Self-defense. Got it. I'm just trying to explore all the options that are possible in criminology.
00:43:16
We're basically detectives. Yeah. So he says it was self-defense. He's convicted for second-degree murder.
00:43:23
He's incarcerated at San Quentin for a bunch of years. And during a prison transfer to a minimum security facility, he fucking escapes.
00:43:30
That's right. And he makes his way to Colorado under that alias William Osborne.
00:43:35
And he had been planning the kidnapping for like two and a half years. He was so angry at wealthy people, and he wanted to be wealthy so bad,
00:43:43
he picked someone he could kidnap and get money, and that was like his only fucking thing for two and a half years.
00:43:48
But he didn't do a great job of it because he had like a yellow car, That he left the license plate on, and he did all of these things that were not a Fulbright Scholar level criminal.
00:44:02
Hey, just because you get the Fulbright Scholarship doesn't mean you have good taste in car colors.
00:44:07
That's right. Those fools always, they'll fall for the yellow car. That's true. Oh, can I get that convertible Mustang in bright yellow?
00:44:14
Yeah. Always spring for the, what, navy blue? Yeah, you gotta go. Navy blue with pinstripes.
00:44:21
So the landlord at the apartment identifies Corbett through his mugshot as the man who rented the apartment,
00:44:29
and a resident at Corbett's rooming house tells the FBI he often heard Corbett typing late into the night,
00:44:35
which was like I bet a lot of people did back then. But also, like, I had a neighbor who typed all the time,
00:44:41
and it was the most fucking annoying thing in the world. You're like, stop being a fucking hipster and get a laptop
00:44:48
and stop clonking away on your fucking typewriter, you fucking hipster douchebag.
00:44:54
Yeah. Yeah. You know? Oh, sorry if you typewrite. Listen, if you typewrite, not past 10 o'clock, please.
00:45:04
All right? Yeah, control your passions. You know what I mean? It's like, that's why the movie Atonement bugged me so much
00:45:11
because like 11 minutes in, I was just like, someone cut the typing right now. and that was like the theme throughout the whole thing.
00:45:18
No, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink, clink. It's not good. It's not pleasant.
00:45:21
No. Okay, so, and then so they, oh, they find the typewriter, but, you know, they find the person who bought it,
00:45:29
and he's like, yep, that's him, he bought it with cash. He gets fingered for it.
00:45:33
It's totally him. So the FBI puts out an all-points bulletin for Joseph Corbett's 1951 Mercury sedan,
00:45:40
bright fucking yellow. Mm-hmm. Eight days later, 17-900 typewriter. spray painted on the top.
00:45:48
Shit, that could have been great. It's a Mercury Cougar. And then someone has taken
00:45:55
paint of some kind. Whether it's spray or air, it's none of my business. And painted a typewriter on the hood
00:46:04
of a car is my joke. No, I guess. I just so, no. Getty Images number five. Yes. And so 1,700 miles away, eight days later, in New Jersey, in Atlantic City, police find the yellow car burning in a dump.
00:46:23
Oh. Yeah. And the interior is pretty destroyed, and there aren't any license plates on it.
00:46:27
He finally figured out to take off the fucking license plate. But the serial number, of course, identifies the car as belonging to Walter Osborne, a.k.a. Joseph Corbett.
00:46:36
So investigators, now it's 1960, remember? And so they find four layers of soil on the car's undercarriage.
00:46:43
And because he's rich and white, they investigate further. Hold on. No, you deserve a swig of that water for that comment.
00:46:56
Thank you. Vodka. Okay. So they test the fucking soil in 1960, which seems like such a modern thing to do.
00:47:04
And the most recent soil samples is obviously from New Jersey. The second layer is from a drive across the country.
00:47:11
The oldest one, number four, or number one, I guess, that sample is obviously from the Turkey Creek Bridge near Coors Ranch.
00:47:22
They can tile it all the same. But then they take a soil sample from the third one, and it's a...
00:47:29
Okay, listen, I'm going to read. Soil sample on top of the shale is from the area where Corbett took Adolph Coors after the abduction.
00:47:37
That's what they are hypothesizing. And there's all this granite flecked with pink feldspar.
00:47:43
And they can... Yes. You know what I mean? Yes, I do. That's a great indicator. Yep, yep, yep.
00:47:48
The feldspar is there. We know. We're from Denver. We've got the feldspar, everybody.
00:47:52
It's there. The FBI agents take 612 samples of dirt and soil from the Denver and surrounding areas
00:48:00
hoping to find a match, and they find it similar to Pike's Peak Granite. You guys love granite!
00:48:08
No, but that, Pike's Peak is amazing granite. It will fuck you up. You know that's the name of a strain, right?
00:48:18
Pike's Peak Granite, it better be. So, it's on the front range of the Rocky Mountains,
00:48:25
about 10 miles west of Colorado Springs, but the... You love those springs. But the area is fucking huge.
00:48:35
And so they search everywhere from mines to houses and empty buildings, but they come up empty.
00:48:41
During the spring and summer of 1960, there's still no answers. Kors' 14-year-old son, Adolph No. 4, they will not let it go.
00:48:51
They are determined to change the... They're indignant. Yeah. He recalls crying himself to sleep every night.
00:48:58
Eight months after the kidnapping, a man target shooting at a Douglas County dump discovers clothing.
00:49:06
Dumps. No, they are fun. Sorry, dumps are great. The Douglas County dump is amazing, and you're right to cheer for it.
00:49:14
You're right. It's got all those seagulls. Where did they come from? Inland? So he's there target shooting, which sounds actually really fun.
00:49:27
I love the dumps. I'm sorry. Whoa, I'm yelling. We also had coffee backstage, too.
00:49:37
I'm sweating. Growing up in the country, we had to go to the dumps to get rid of our garbage.
00:49:41
There was no, like, civic services or whatever they call those. So we just, like, had a trailer and you just kept throwing garbage bags into it.
00:49:50
And then my dad would be like, you want to go to the dumps with me? And the answer had to be yes.
00:49:55
Sit with the trash. Yeah. And so you just, I would sit there and just scan when I would be sitting in the truck.
00:50:01
And he'd be sweeping out or just look out and scanning to see if I could see anything good.
00:50:04
A body. You were looking for a body. I was, I want to say I was, but I would have gone for anything.
00:50:11
A Cabbage Catch doll or any, just a point of interest. Is that an off-brand Cabbage Catch doll?
00:50:16
Cabbage Catch doll? A Cabbage Catch doll. Oh, it's definitely the altitude. Yeah.
00:50:23
That's what's great about this place is you can blame everything on weed or altitude.
00:50:31
So this dude who's fucking shooting and shit, he finds clothes that match what Adolf Coors was wearing when he disappeared, I know,
00:50:40
and an engraved pen knife that belongs to Coors as well. Can you imagine? Out of all this shit, he's like, oh, fuck.
00:50:46
That's really amazing. Well, probably does it look new. It probably looks like that just got left here.
00:50:51
And a group of hunters find a human skull and bones scattered in the forest. There are two holes in the shoulder blades caused by a high-speed projectile
00:51:01
that corresponds with two holes that are found in the jacket that belonged to Coors.
00:51:05
And the projectile had gone through the lungs, and that has what made it fatal. So the bones and skull are in pretty good condition,
00:51:13
so they identify the reins with dental records and confirm the body belongs to Adolf Coors III.
00:51:19
Isn't that fucking bananas? Yeah. How did I, how did we don't, it's crazy. Okay.
00:51:26
So basically the FBI surmises that what happened was that Corbett drove out to the secluded
00:51:34
Turkey Creek Bridge. Oh, yeah. You love it. Yeah. To wait for ADOC course, and of course, like blocked, it was one lane, so he just stopped,
00:51:42
I guess. Yeah. That's why that bridge is so fucking scary. Anyone can stop you. Yeah.
00:51:48
And he made it look like he had broken down, of course, the old fucking ruse. And then at some point, it seems like that Corbett was going to try to kidnap him
00:51:57
and hold him for ransom for real, but he was really bad at crime, as we said. Yeah.
00:52:03
And so he didn't expect Adolf Kors to put up a fight. He fucking did, and it seems like he was running back towards his car
00:52:08
when he got shot twice in the back. Yeah. Also, why would you, it's like, I want to kidnap someone,
00:52:15
someone that won't put up a fight. How about a captain of industry? How about someone that's like...
00:52:20
What the grown fucking man? That's had so many vitamins in his life. He's just going to fight me.
00:52:26
I mean, this isn't an argument for kidnapping smaller people. It is, though. No, it is.
00:52:31
It is. Be smart about the people you grab. People who have iron poor blood. People who have bad bone density.
00:52:40
People on Boniva. I'm just saying, help yourself. We can't do it for you. You have to do it yourself.
00:52:48
It's a real DIY industry out there. It really is. The kidnapping. Yeah. Cut that, Stephen.
00:52:56
Please. We'll not be held culpable. We refuse. So where was I? Okay, so they think he panicked and shot Adolf Kors.
00:53:06
The geological evidence shows that Corbett drove to the Rocky Mountains 45 minutes away to dump the body,
00:53:12
and it was an area that that guy was familiar with as a hunter. He left town the next day, drove to New Jersey, set his fucking car on fire, and laid it out of there.
00:53:20
So he becomes like the most wanted man, obviously. I don't know what photos I have.
00:53:25
Let's take a look. Oh, that's the bridge. Is that that bridge? Holy shit, look at it.
00:53:29
It's so scary. No, look away. No, look back at it. Look at those old cars. Yeah.
00:53:37
Those poor horses. And that bridge. Those horses are like, we've been waiting here for 45 minutes.
00:53:43
It's like, we've got to get this bridge two-way. I think that's his car, that sedan.
00:53:50
What did I call it? Station wagon? The Maverick? No that pretty suck and sweet God that car looks a million miles long How do you parallel park that thing You don You a man You just leave it in the middle of the street It the 1960s
00:54:05
You don't give a fuck. And then... You just throw your keys to whoever's walking by.
00:54:10
Take care of that, will you? All right. And this is the site where his body was found.
00:54:15
So it's just a pointless crime. It is a pointless death. Yeah, not to say that if he got the money, it would be...
00:54:21
No, no, no, but I mean... Yeah. No, it's really awful. It's like they took this father of four, and from all accounts, he was this lovely man,
00:54:28
and a wonderful husband and father, and this fucking asshole just did this because he was
00:54:33
angry at society for his place in life, which was that he was a genius and fucked up.
00:54:38
It wasn't even like he was poor and couldn't do shit. He was like, in college, God, get it together.
00:54:43
I couldn't even do that. I mean, he was such a great typist. The world was his oyster.
00:54:48
That's true. So, yes, totally. So J. Edgar Hoover calls Corbett the most wanted man in America.
00:54:58
And for seven fucking months, Joseph Corbett successfully evades capture in one of the largest manhunts in American criminal history since John Dillinger.
00:55:07
Wow. And yet I hadn't heard of it. History. Okay. Finally, a woman in Vancouver, Canada, sees the U.S. press reports and calls the FBI saying that a man matching his description is living in her apartment building.
00:55:22
And she's like, I'm going to go stay in a hotel for a while. Did she? I don't know, probably.
00:55:26
I would. Either that or she'd be like, don't worry, I'll watch his door for you.
00:55:30
Yeah. She's one of two kinds of people. She just has a gun pointed at it. I got it covered.
00:55:35
Yeah, yeah. I love her. When the arrest is made in Vancouver, Corbett says, I'm your man.
00:55:42
I'm not armed. I surrender. And they shoot him twice in the back. That's wrong. During the trial, 23 FBI agents, five lab examiners, and a fingerprint expert testify for the prosecution.
00:55:57
That means you're fucked. Joseph Corbett, of course, pleads not guilty. But on March 19, 1961, he's convicted of kidnapping and murder and sentenced to life in prison.
00:56:07
No. You guys are learning, finally. There's barely even one. I know. There's two hoots at the most.
00:56:15
No. I just yelled at you. So here's what you guys do. In Colorado law, I don't know if it's still happening or what,
00:56:21
but there can't be a death penalty case unless there's an eyewitness or a confession.
00:56:25
So this case doesn't have either, so he doesn't receive the death penalty. And he just gets life.
00:56:31
There's a bunch of lawyers start talking very loudly right now about how that law is.
00:56:36
Objection. Actually, the way it is now. Tell us after. Tell us after. Yeah, or don't.
00:56:47
I'm kidding. So he gets life in prison, which we know means 19 years in prison. He's paroled in July of 1979 after serving 19 years.
00:57:02
Wow. Yeah. I know. He finds work in a manufacturing plant in Denver and then is a truck driver for the Salvation Army.
00:57:10
And he just becomes a fucking recluse and doesn't talk to people. But it seems like he might have been that way already.
00:57:15
There might have been something going on that he was this weird person who couldn't exist in society.
00:57:21
Yeah, it's safe to say that. As evidence of that. So reporters try to get him to tell a side of the story.
00:57:28
They're fucking so hungry for his story, he refuses. Until 1996, he finally talks to a pair of Denver Post reporters,
00:57:36
and he tells them all about his childhood fascination with the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.
00:57:41
And it happened to me that he was a kid, and he couldn't stop reading about it. He was obsessed with it.
00:57:45
That's weird. God, that's wrong and weird. Shouldn't do that. Right, right, right.
00:57:50
What a freak. And then he denies his involvement in the Coors murder. He continues to say he didn't do it.
00:58:00
Yes. Then don't talk about the Lindbergh baby, dude. Yeah. Come on. You just don't sound.
00:58:05
He claims he's innocent. On August 24th, 2009. What's that? Ten years ago. The manager at the Royal Chateau Apartments,
00:58:14
which is college, I wrote this all in an email that I meant to fucking write down.
00:58:18
College Village? No. It's right in College Village. You know where that Paquito Moss is?
00:58:25
Do you have that here? Chipotle? What's national? Not Chipotle. What's? At the Royal Chateau Apartments
00:58:36
where the now 80-year-old reclusive Joseph Corbett lived for more than 25 years,
00:58:41
his body is discovered in his bed. He had shot himself in the head. He's 80 years old.
00:58:47
Jesus. I know. And he didn't leave a note, and no one came to claim his body. Isn't that crazy?
00:58:54
So the murder of Adolf Kors, do I have one? Oh, I think I have a photo of him that I forgot.
00:58:58
There he is. Oh. Okay. What do you think? Thoughts? Feelings? There we go. More?
00:59:11
No, no. I just, I can't think of anything. that's a bad sign for me. The murder of Adolf Kors
00:59:20
is one of the first high-profile cases in this country where soil evidence was critical to the prosecution of the case,
00:59:26
and the kidnapping and murder is one of the most notorious crimes in Colorado history,
00:59:31
and that is the kidnapping of Adolf Kors. Wow. That was great. Thank you. That was great.
00:59:43
I love that. Here are the people that are clapping. You want to take in the visual aspect and not just the audio.
00:59:52
It's more like, look who isn't clapping. Clap your hands Yes It shaming in non I pretty sure I saw a guy sleeping in the front row yesterday at the show I hope so I swear that I kind of looked at him and then I look back and he out
01:00:07
but I think his wife had fucking elbowed him in the side. It's really rough when you can see well.
01:00:12
It sucks. The thing is that sometimes you can only sleep at, like, a 4,000-seat venue.
01:00:19
It's something about the acoustics. Yeah. It's like a melatonin. those dulcet tones of people screaming shit from the audience.
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01:01:44
If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next,
01:01:48
there's a podcast you should know about. It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
01:01:55
Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible,
01:01:59
spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers,
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and comedy. Cal is joined by guests who dig into what these stories are about, what makes them stand out as audiobooks, and why they're connecting with listeners right now.
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If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, on the iHeartRadio app,
01:02:18
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye. Okay, what are you doing?
01:02:25
Well, so many of you probably already know this, but I'm about to do the story of the Colorado cannibal, Alfred Packer.
01:02:34
I don't know this. That's what, it's not worth it to go all the way back, but the ravenous movie poster that I showed you featuring
01:02:42
the wonderful Guy Pearce and Robert Carlyle from Trainspotting. and then out of left field.
01:02:50
Oh, we got ourselves a fucking guy visual person who's on point. Oh, my God. Good job.
01:02:56
Thank you. Highly professional. It's almost like you guys have had shows here before.
01:03:01
Yeah. All right. And that's, you wouldn't believe it, but it's David Arquette over on the left-hand side.
01:03:07
Oh. Uh-huh. It's 1999. Okay. And this was a dramatized version, basically, of the story I'm about to tell you.
01:03:17
Okay. This is the reason I know about this story is because I saw this movie Oh, really?
01:03:22
in 1999. And every year since then. I know. Is it your favorite? And then the ritual began
01:03:31
when I would eat human flesh and watch Ravenous laughing. It is good. He was right.
01:03:38
Oh, no. Mm-hmm. You made me say it. I didn't want to tell him. oh but so I would cite Ravenous
01:03:48
as one I would say the initial source but then obviously our best friend Wikipedia and there's a podcast
01:03:54
called Colored Red by someone who only refers to herself as Laura so there's no nothing else I can say that's bold
01:04:01
but it's a podcast about the lesser known crimes and murders that have shaped the history of Colorado
01:04:07
so you should listen to that because there's good information so So, okay, so let's talk about Alfred Packer's early life.
01:04:18
Now, this is the funny piece of information that I did get from that podcast. Alfred Packer had, this makes him probably my favorite person of all time,
01:04:30
including every family member I have. Alfred Packer apparently had a tattoo of his own name that was misspelled.
01:04:39
No! Yeah. oh my heart my heart no yes how did it how was it alfred alfred so oftentimes in articles he's
01:04:53
called alfred packer oh but they're like his name was alfred packer but then people are like you
01:04:59
know that's not what that says yeah he's the one that said it yeah we got to go by what two drunk
01:05:05
minors. This is also a minor based success. It is. I knew a dude in my 20s, of course,
01:05:12
who was in a band and got the tattooed name of the band on his wrist and they spelled it wrong, so he changed the name
01:05:18
of his band to where it was. Smart. That's good. He should have done that. Just changed his name.
01:05:24
And then started a band. Okay. So Alford and Fred Packer was born on January 21st, 1842
01:05:34
two in Pennsylvania, to James and Esther Packer. He's one of three children. In the early 1850s, they move to LaGrange County, Indiana,
01:05:42
oh no, Indiana, so that the dad can become a cabinetmaker. And then it said, as a teenager,
01:05:52
Alfred fought with his parents and ended up moving out on his own to Minnesota which is such an act of rebellion Like fuck you You don understand me I going to move to Minnesota alone
01:06:07
I'm 15. Go fuck yourself. He did it. Our boy Alfred did it. So he gets out there.
01:06:15
He gets a job as a shoemaker, your favorite. Let's take a look at who we're talking about here.
01:06:20
Okay. Oh, shit. That guy is not fucking around with the facial hair. and the cheekbones.
01:06:27
That guy's like, it'd be really cool if you'd come see my band this Thursday. I mean, I wouldn't not wear that outfit, is all I'm saying.
01:06:38
He's got a quality about him. It's like, I'm sorry, did you move out to Minnesota when you were like 15?
01:06:45
Because you're amazing. And is this one of those after-death photos? Because you're also kind of creepy.
01:06:54
Because you're kind of chill to the point of. Creeping me out. Well, you know what it is?
01:07:01
The dead eyes? Yes. His eyes look like that thing you get at a Halloween store where you walk by and it's normal and then you look again and it has demon eyes.
01:07:11
Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he just has demon eyes, I think. Great. Love him. Great bow tie.
01:07:17
Alfred. Alfred. Doing it. So here's what he does. April 22nd, 1862, enlists in the Union Army to be in the Civil War, but he gets honorably
01:07:29
discharged eight months later because he has epilepsy. Oh man, he's your buddy. He's my best friend.
01:07:36
He has the kind that is, I feel very bad, because he basically had uncontrolled epilepsy.
01:07:43
Obviously, the times have changed. Well, I mean, controlled epilepsy, if you can control it.
01:07:49
Yeah, and I can. Nah. Power. Thank you. Also, just an FYI, if anybody ever has an epileptic seizure around you, don't put anything in their mouth.
01:08:01
Oh, yeah. Don't put anything in their fucking mouth. Stay away from their mouth.
01:08:05
And if your friend goes, I think you're supposed to put a wallet in her mouth. Don't fucking put a wallet in my mouth.
01:08:11
I should be saying this to you. Also, someone says, put a handful of pennies in her mouth and make a wish.
01:08:16
Do not let them do that. Don't put that in my head. Now that's my only one dream in life,
01:08:23
is to cram pennies in your mouth. Also, don't put in a cob of corn and watch me chew it off like a cartoon crow.
01:08:32
Oh, stop enticing me with a good time. I read this off an epilepsy pamphlet, and it's always been my rules.
01:08:42
Damn it. You can put anything in my mouth when I'm having a seizure. I did not mean for that to sound gross.
01:08:50
It's your own, it's in your own head. You're filthy. You guys, it's not that kind of podcast.
01:08:56
We talk about cannibalism. Yes, we're trying to talk about cannibalism, not blowjobs.
01:09:01
So come on. People's parents are here. Tighten it up. Okay. So. Okay. Epilepsy, once again, comes into our lives.
01:09:13
So his thing is he won't not be in the Army. So he moves to Ottumwa, Iowa. and on June 25th, 1863,
01:09:22
sure, he tries to enlist again and this time he actually ends up serving for almost a year
01:09:29
but then he has a seizure every two days so they're like, buddy. And he gets discharged again.
01:09:38
So now he's unemployed. He moves out west. He finds various odd jobs working as a wagon teamster,
01:09:44
a ranch hand, a field worker, and a hunter. I think that's a, isn't that a nursery rhyme?
01:09:51
All four of them are in a boat. Going down a river. Okay. His seizures begin to continue to hamper his work performance,
01:10:04
but his coworkers also say he has a bad attitude. He's rude. He's known as a thief and a liar.
01:10:10
And he's highly argumentative. I mean, the seizures we can deal with. Don't be a dick.
01:10:16
Just, yeah. You know? Now we're going to stick all kinds of shit in your mouth when you're having a seizure.
01:10:21
Because you deserve it. That's why you got to zip the lip. All right. So part of that, the reason he moved from job to job is because people were just like, get this asshole out of here.
01:10:34
And then they would. Okay, wait. And for example of that, here's another look he has.
01:10:40
Oh, God. You're working with this guy and he's just like, that's not how you do it.
01:10:44
And you're like, we need to get rid of this guy. I'm not kidding. this fucking hat. I can't look at it one more day. Okay. Okay. Enough. So I wish you wouldn't,
01:10:59
I wish you'd stop. Um, thank you. He gets a job as a wilderness guide, but, uh, he isn't good at it.
01:11:09
That's not one you want to be bad at. Yeah. I don't know where we are now. I'm sorry. I'm not
01:11:14
that good at this job. Yeah, that's the only part of the job. You have to know where to go.
01:11:18
And he doesn't ever. Wow. And he wears that fucking hat. So people are just like, take it
01:11:24
off. I'm not kidding. You don't deserve it. Yeah. He ends up working as a miner in Colorado
01:11:32
under a bridge that's haunted. Really? Was that bridge haunted? Probably. Okay. Definitely.
01:11:40
Okay. So he's a minor in Colorado, then also in Utah, and then in November of 1873, a group of about 20 men
01:11:48
who are working at that mine, they decide they're going to leave the Bingham Canyon
01:11:53
mines near Salt Lake City and trek to great mines there, trek to Breckenridge, and
01:12:00
Colorado. Yeah, Breckenridge, you guys are a big part of this story, so get ready to just hoot and holler for yourselves.
01:12:07
It's all you. It's all you tonight. Okay, this team is led by a man named Bob McGrew,
01:12:16
and he had gotten word that Breckenridge was teeming with gold. So, obviously, gold rush time, gossip would get around,
01:12:23
and they'd be like, did you hear Breckenridge? Oh, my God, you don't even play that.
01:12:27
They are shitting gold in Breckenridge. get out there. Like you don't even know. And then it takes them seven months to find out that it was
01:12:34
a prank or you're like, shit. It was a ruse the whole time. The whole time. Um, so they, they're,
01:12:42
it's the group of people. They don't know each other that well, but they're all like, but we're,
01:12:45
let's go get that money. But I trust you implicitly with my life. Let's do this. Uh, I'm, I'm, I'm more,
01:12:52
greedy than trusting. Strike two for me. Okay, so they decide they're going to go.
01:13:02
So 25 miles into that journey they run into Alfred Packer near Provo, Utah. Scary.
01:13:10
Provo, Utah. And when they tell him where they're headed, he asks if he can go because he says he knows the San Juan
01:13:16
Mountain region very well. And they're like, well, this is perfect. We got a little guy
01:13:20
and a little hat and he's going to tell us exactly how to get to gold city usa they're
01:13:27
fucking that's where the high five was invented it all happens in that moment lies lies lies um
01:13:34
but they are hesitant to let him join as alfred has no money uh no food he's not bringing anything
01:13:42
to the table in terms of like we're gonna pull all our stuff and get there yeah he's like yeah
01:13:46
I'm going to eat your stuff and then take up a lot of space. And his supposed knowledge of the region,
01:13:54
giving him this big leg up. He actually didn't know the territory at all. So that was just a bold faced lie.
01:14:02
He's so bad at leading people places. When will they learn? And, and why does he want to keep going to that,
01:14:08
to that area? Yeah. It's like somebody that's like, I just want to do theater. And it's like,
01:14:13
don't do it. You're bad at it. Don't. there he is I think he would be played by Ben Kingsley
01:14:20
don't you think? oh very much yeah goodbye so dude I think that five hour energy is shutting my eyes down
01:14:35
these words are you sure? I've got bionics vision now I can see everything did you take my vision?
01:14:44
did up Okay, they let him join the party. They head down the Mormon Trail towards Colorado.
01:14:51
So it isn't long before they begin to regret that decision, of course. Alfred spends much of his time complaining and arguing with the other guys.
01:15:00
They're on a fucking, like, what, 200-day hike. And an asshole that no one actually knows and isn't helping comes along.
01:15:10
You guys, this is so boring. There's too much uphill. My shoes got dirty. Are we there yet?
01:15:17
All right. Probably. That's exactly probably what happened. He also hogs the food and water rations for himself.
01:15:26
Come on. He also doesn't seem to know the area, as we said. And, of course, every so often, he has a seizure and freaks everybody out.
01:15:35
Fuck. I mean, that's not his fault. But, like, again, don't be a dick about it. If you're going to have seizures, bring your own, like, donkey.
01:15:46
You know what I mean? Like, bring... Something to the table. Make up for the lack.
01:15:51
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. If you're going to drive everybody down, how about some fresh oranges?
01:15:57
You know, something like that. Eat one less can of beans than everyone else. And stop arguing me about every single fucking thing around the campfire.
01:16:06
Right. Okay, so he slows down their progress. And then to make matters worse, weather conditions are growing more severe.
01:16:15
Snow starts to pile on the trail. Their wagons can't go a steady pace. And soon the trail is almost completely snowed over.
01:16:23
They lose their way. They run out of food, of course, forcing them to resort to eating horse feed to stay alive.
01:16:31
I've done it. It's not the worst thing that can happen to you. What is it like? Is it like bird seed?
01:16:36
I don't know. Bird seed? I don't know any horses. Well, it's not. The food we fed lady, my aunt Jean's horse, it's oats.
01:16:46
It's different versions of oats. And your sister forced you to eat it when you were a kid?
01:16:50
Probably. I bet. Or I was just walking around by myself like, I wonder what this tastes like.
01:16:54
No one can do anything. I can eat anything I want. A whole egg. Oh, oh. Whatever I find.
01:17:02
My sister, when she was like a toddler, once my mom watched her pluck a snail off a plant and put it into her mouth.
01:17:07
No. How old? Like a toddler, like a baby. Fifteen. I'm not going to out my sister on this one, shockingly.
01:17:18
She had great taste. She liked escargot at a young age. Okay, so, out of food. And as that even starts to run out, the group considers.
01:17:31
You okay? Nope. Want me to read it to you? Oh, you know what it is? It's that shadow.
01:17:40
Wow. Focus on the problem and solve it. Don't adjust to the problem and let it stay.
01:17:45
So we're going to have to add five hour energy to our writer, right? And every fucking show,
01:17:52
it crappening because this is the best show we ever done You sweet There a couple people out in the audience that are like yeah no it not
01:18:07
It's not. Okay. Okay. The group does eventually consider killing and eating their horses to survive.
01:18:17
That's how bad it gets. That's so nice, though. Like, I'm surprised to hear that.
01:18:22
I can't guarantee they didn't. Let's go with they didn't. Let's say they didn't.
01:18:27
Let's say they didn't. Let's say they actually took their own jackets off and put them on the horses.
01:18:33
There's nothing sadder than a horse standing in snow. That's so sweet of them. Yeah.
01:18:38
Okay. We can just write a whole fan fiction about this story. And never get to the cannibalism.
01:18:45
Okay. Miraculously. Oh, man. I'm going to need some pronunciation help on this. I should have taken care of this before the show,
01:18:54
but I was straightening my hair. Okay. Miraculously, on January 21st, 1874, they stumble upon a Native American encampment near Montrose
01:19:03
led by Chief... Led by Chief O-ray. Uray! Uray! Uray! Then why does it say our? Literally O-U-R-A-Y.
01:19:19
spell it like you say it chief yure okay so chief yure who i have not heard of before he was he was
01:19:28
known as the white man's friend so apparently he was a friendly like helpful here's another group
01:19:35
of dumb ass white people let me let's take them for all we can because they're so stupid get them
01:19:40
out of the snow help them out once again um so he welcomes the group into his um camp giving them
01:19:47
food and much needed hospitality. He tells them conditions are far too harsh for
01:19:51
them to continue on and offers to let them stay in his encampment until spring. They're like,
01:19:57
great. And then a few weeks into their stay, they're like, we gotta get out of here. We gotta go get that
01:20:03
gold. And they believe that everyone else is heading to Breckenridge and that they're gonna miss out. Everyone else is gonna get
01:20:11
the gold before them. It's that fear of missing out. Yeah. There's massive FOMO about Breckenridge.
01:20:18
Eleven men decide to brave the winter conditions and push on toward Breckenridge
01:20:23
anyway. So Chief Urey is like, no, no, don't go. And really, and they were like,
01:20:33
it was basically like when you're trying to get keys away from a drunk person, they're fucking fighting you
01:20:37
and then being really shitty and then you're like, here's your fucking keys. Good luck tonight.
01:20:40
you know you can only fight for so long um because the men wouldn't be swayed he gave
01:20:50
them food and he gave them directions he said follow the gunnison river um toward right toward
01:20:56
the destination instead of going through the mountains that that's the best way um alfred
01:21:01
however because he got to be alfred he insists that they travel through the mountains arguing
01:21:06
that yes, the weather is bad, but it's still the most direct route to Breckenridge.
01:21:10
They listen to this asshole instead of fucking our chief over here? Yeah, they're like, oh, this guy has given us everything and has lived here since it started.
01:21:18
So he kind of knows all about it. Oh, and then there's this asshole we all hate.
01:21:23
I gotta go with this guy. I'm sorry. So that's what they do. and so Alfred convinces five of the
01:21:35
eleven men to come with him and on February 9th they set out through the mountains
01:21:39
so they're journeying through, this team consists of Shannon Wilson Bell James Humphrey, Frank
01:21:47
Butcher Miller, George California Noon, yes he was shaped like the state of California
01:21:54
weird bend in the middle and Israel Swan, who I believe was in his 60s. So they estimate it's going to take them 14 days to complete this 75-mile journey.
01:22:09
Unfortunately, they're ill-equipped. They have no heavy winter clothing. Yeah, they're just like, let's just kind of do this blizzard thing and see what happens.
01:22:20
They have no flint to start fires. They have no snowshoes. So all they have between them is two rifles, a pistol, some knives, a hatchet, and a little bit of ammunition.
01:22:32
And chutzpah. Everyone knows that's the most important thing when you're walking through a fucking blizzard.
01:22:39
They're like, we're going to stab and shoot the snow. Okay, do what you want. Sounds good.
01:22:46
The remaining six men who don't listen to Alford follow the river, but then they wind up running out of food too.
01:22:52
It's just a bad time to travel. Sure. As Chief Ure fucking said about 50 times. Okay, so they are rescued by cow hands at the government cattle camp near Gunnison.
01:23:04
And those guys, we love your cattle camp. It's like homey, but fancy. And they have the best oats.
01:23:16
So those guys who didn't listen to Alford stay at the cattle camp until April. Okay.
01:23:21
Until all the storms have passed. So cut to less than two months later. So the guys that were, they go down the river, they starve,
01:23:29
and then the cowhands find them, and then they go off and they're rescued. And then there's Alford and the five idiots that listen to him.
01:23:35
They're like, we'll just go straight. Let's power through it. We're fine. We'll turn the radio up loud and smoke, and we'll get through it.
01:23:43
So a little less than two months later, on April 16, 1874, Alfred Packard comes stumbling out of the forest across a frozen lake
01:23:52
and over to the Los Pinos Indian Agency near Sagwash Sagwash I think you got it Saguash Squash
01:24:05
Squash. Squash? Near Squash, Colorado. Squash gourds. Will one person just say it?
01:24:16
Saguash. Saguash. Oh, what? Saguash? Saguash. Sorry. I'm sorry. You're saying this is pronounced
01:24:27
Sawash? S-A-G-U-A-C fucking H-E? Oh, the whole world, the it's all silent. The whole
01:24:41
last half is silent of it. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm never saying that city name again. I'm so
01:24:49
fucking mad. Sawash. You fucking idiot. Okay, so this guy shows up, right, alone, our boy Alfred.
01:24:59
I'm sure the hat's gone by now. He's bloodied, he's alone, and he has a big story to tell.
01:25:05
He burst through the doors of the agency mess hall, disheveled. He has rags wrapped around his feet.
01:25:11
He has a rifle, a knife, a steel coffee pot, and his satchel, that's it. And the men in the mess hall, they run to him, they tend to him, they feed him,
01:25:19
they put on dry clothes on him, and he drinks some whiskey and tells them what happened.
01:25:25
So he tells them that he'd gotten snow blindness along the trail as they were going on and he was starting to lag behind.
01:25:34
And since they didn't want to get slowed down anymore, Israel gave him a shotgun to protect himself
01:25:39
and then the rest of the men went on their way, basically abandoning him. So he says he slowly made his way through the mountains
01:25:46
for just over two months, miraculously managing to survive on tree roots and rose buds.
01:25:53
Liar, liar. Yeah, those winter roses that are so common coming up from the ground through this snow
01:26:01
like a fucking seal video. Okay. I guess we have to believe you. So the men at the agency find the story
01:26:09
odd, of course, and as Alfred did not appear ravaged or skinny as someone in that position would be
01:26:17
his cheeks are actually kind of puffy and he seems... Are they fat shaming him? They're like,
01:26:24
we think you might have some liver issues because this... His body seemed far from starved.
01:26:31
Even still, they let him stay there for 10 days. They bought his rifle off him for $10,
01:26:37
which is the equivalent of... $900. $221. That's right. Today's money, $221, so that he could afford
01:26:46
to get back home to Pennsylvania. He was just saying, like, I just need to get out of here or whatever.
01:26:50
So they're like, we'll help you, because we fucking hate you like everyone else does.
01:26:56
So at the end of his stay there, Alfred sets out for saguash proper to purchase supplies,
01:27:03
and then he's going to leave for Pennsylvania. He stays at Dolan's Saloon, which is run by, of course, owner Larry Dolan.
01:27:11
Larry Dolan, that could be a more 2019 name. We're in the middle of all that, like, Jeremiah and Alfred.
01:27:20
And of course, there's Larry Dolan with his bolo tie. He's from Boston. He doesn't fuck around.
01:27:29
Okay, so Dolan notices that despite Alfred's story about falling on hard times, he is spending a lot of money, about $100 total during his stay there.
01:27:41
He's stoked to be alive. And he's just like spending it up. Okay. I mean, you could say that.
01:27:48
But during his stay, he spent $100, which is the equivalent of $2,214. So he was wasting money.
01:27:57
Much of it was spent on booze and he was drinking heavily throughout his stay. And as he drinks, of course, he starts getting loose-lipped.
01:28:05
So he's telling and retelling a story of him coming out of the wilderness. But it's changing, of course.
01:28:11
and then the story becomes that he became quote unquote detached from the other men
01:28:17
rather than them abandoning him. So now it's more of his idea. Yeah, I had to get away.
01:28:22
I'm a lone wolf. I can't be around a lot of people. Several other of the saloon goers
01:28:29
noticed that Alfred is, not only does he have a bunch of money, he uses a bunch of different wallets.
01:28:36
Huh. I think men love that though. Like in one night, if you use four different wallets at the bar.
01:28:43
You look cool. Eel skin. Yeah. I mean, just stupid criminals tonight. That's what the fucking theme of this show is.
01:28:52
Not thinking things through. No. So he's a sloppy drunk and a big timer. So he at one point offers to lend Larry Dolan, the saloon owner, hotel and saloon owner, $300, which is the equivalent of $6,000.
01:29:07
And Larry's like, I'm just going to write your name and number down here because you're a huge red flag.
01:29:14
So a day or two into Alfred's stay there, a member of the original team that had stayed at Chief Urey's encampment named Preston Nutter.
01:29:27
Oh, that, no. Yes. Preston Nutter. Poor guy. He would be played by like a Patrick Wilson type where he'd be like, all his uniform is perfectly clean.
01:29:40
Where it's like, what? It's the gold rush. How are you clean? It's me, Preston Nutter, here to straighten things out for everybody.
01:29:49
So Preston Nutter arrives at Dolan and when he asks Alfred what happened to the rest of the crew Alfred changes the story once more telling him that he was warming his feet over the fire when the rest of the group went off in search of food And he says Israel left him with the rifle
01:30:05
in case anything were to happen, but then the group never came back. And he thought they abandoned him,
01:30:11
so he set off without them. But of course, Preston Nutter is no fool. He doesn't buy the story,
01:30:17
and he knows that those men are not the type that were just going to leave their own guide
01:30:21
in the mountains by himself. They always say you can't fool and nutter. Fool and nutter once.
01:30:29
Fluff or nutter twice. That's just sound matching. That's not good comedy. Okay.
01:30:41
The problem is I can't, my eyes won't go back to the place they were. What kind of drug addiction is that?
01:30:49
Okay, so he doesn't buy it. He also questions where Alfred's getting all the money from,
01:30:55
but it's when he notices that Alfred has Frank Butcher Miller's pocket knife that Preston confronts him.
01:31:01
He's just like, this is all wrong and something happened. The two men get into a heated argument.
01:31:06
Nutter threatens to hang Alfred. They're finally separated before a full-on fight breaks out.
01:31:12
During this time, two of the men who had taken the Gunnison River path, suggested by Chief Urey, arrive at the Les Penas Indian Agency
01:31:19
where Alfred had stayed a couple days before. And those remaining three men from that group
01:31:26
join them a few days later. And when they get there, all the agency men tell them what happened to Alfred
01:31:32
and how he was abandoned. And all of them are like, no, no, no, that's not true.
01:31:37
Knowing Alfred is a liar and an epileptic and an asshole. In that order. They know that the guys they knew
01:31:47
wouldn't abandon anybody. and that Alfred was a liar. So they convinced the head of the agency, General Charles Adams,
01:31:55
that Alfred must be brought in for questioning. So Adams sends one of his men to go to Swash
01:32:03
to retrieve Alfred through trickery. And so Alfred's told that this guy shows up,
01:32:09
and he's like, you have to come and join the search party. We have to go find these guys.
01:32:13
You want the lottery? Come back here? Yes. A free cruise. Come back to Swash for a cruise.
01:32:22
So he goes, and then once he's there, they all question him, and they basically are like, we need to get this story straight from you.
01:32:29
So all the men he traveled with, plus General Adams, question him and pick a story apart.
01:32:34
Alfred sticks with the story that the money came from the man in Swash who'd given it to him as a loan.
01:32:41
So to confirm this, one of the agency members rides back to Swash to find that man.
01:32:46
They're like, fine, we'll track it down. There's no man. That guy doesn't exist.
01:32:51
And then that guy who went there hears from witnesses that Alfred was there also using different wallets.
01:32:58
So he was really flossing with those wallets in every town that he visited. So the agency officer rides back and confronts Alfred about the lie.
01:33:08
And they set up a kind of a trial with the officers and General Adams serving as the judge and the jury.
01:33:15
And then in the middle of the trial, which is great for storytelling, but I highly doubt happened chronologically.
01:33:23
But still, leave it alone because it's better for the story. Two tribesmen arrive at the agency with a shocking discovery.
01:33:33
They have strips of white man's meat that they found nearby. Oh, no. Yes. So now Alfred breaks down crying and confesses that he was forced to eat his companions for survival.
01:33:47
Oh, man. Right. Okay, so Alfred explains that he and the group ran out of food rations very quickly,
01:33:53
and they subsisted on roots and rosebuds. Sticking with that one. Huh? That's like a Disney fairy princess.
01:34:01
Like, we'll eat rosebuds for breakfast. But it still wasn't enough. And then one day Alfred goes out to find firewood, comes back to find the other four men standing around the body of Israel Swain, who is the oldest man.
01:34:15
And Alfred, who's just as desperate for a meal as the other ones were, agreed to eat Israel because they were all they were like, are we going to do this?
01:34:25
It's back. He says they also found several thousand dollars on Swan and agreed to split it between themselves.
01:34:31
So that's where the money came from. and then once they ran out of food from swan the rest of the men decided together that they would
01:34:40
eat whoever died next right now this is in a i also did the donner party um when we were in i
01:34:48
think salt lake city yeah it's very yeah there's a lot of parallels obviously um donner party was
01:34:54
uh 27 years um before okay so they were the original they did it first this guy's a rip-off
01:35:02
artist. But that was one of the things in that it was people that were so desperate and they were
01:35:08
like, most people were sick and dying. So like the eating of human flesh was just like one last
01:35:13
final attempt. It wasn't like we're going to eat some human flesh and then I'm close enough to
01:35:17
stumble out of the forest and be at a camp. Like, so, um, he basically says that they just kept
01:35:26
eating whoever would die. And then at the end it was him and Shannon Wilson Bell and that Bell
01:35:32
tried to kill him, so he had to kill Belle first, and then eat him. And then walk
01:35:37
about a mile to total civilization. So, some of the men still don't believe Alford, and General Adams
01:35:48
for some reason trusts him. So, to settle everyone's minds, Adams asks Alford to lead them all out to the
01:35:56
spot where the killings happened. And he does it It's lost. Now this is the part, right?
01:36:04
If anything else happened, we would be surprised. It's right over here. It might have been over there.
01:36:12
You ate people. Why don't you remember where it happened? But in the movie Ravenous, this scene is incredibly intense
01:36:22
because the looking for the bodies turns into the lookers being hunted by Alfred.
01:36:28
and it's super, it's a good movie, but it's not totally factual, but it's so good,
01:36:33
and there's like death caves with bones. I've got to wrap this up. Okay. Now I have to find my goddamn place again.
01:36:47
Why? Okay, so he's like, I don't know where to go. This doesn't look right or whatever,
01:36:55
and I lost it again. One of the men from the original team gets angry, calls Alfred a liar, so they just have to go back.
01:37:02
They're like, oh, we can't find it. We have to go back. On the way back to the agency, Alfred attacks that man with a knife, and is about to murder him when the other people catch him.
01:37:14
So it basically indicates that maybe it wasn't a desperate measure. Maybe there's other stuff going on with him.
01:37:22
So he's arrested, and while in custody, he changes his story about what happened several more times.
01:37:26
times. No one believes anything he says anymore. He's jailed by the sheriff just outside of town.
01:37:31
So then in August of the same year, a man named John Randolph is walking through the mountains
01:37:37
like a fool, two miles southeast of Lake City, Colorado, where he happens upon a horrifying sight
01:37:46
because waiting under the now melted snow were the bodies of the five missing men from Albert's
01:37:52
party. They had been dumped in a gulch beneath the pines and they were all brutally mutilated,
01:37:59
flayed, skinned in certain areas with the meat parts gone from the body. And here... No.
01:38:06
Are you ready? No. It's like a happy minor this time? No, this is... They sent out an illustrator
01:38:14
to go draw it because they wanted... It kept... Eyes down, children. Eyes down, children.
01:38:22
Oops, that's a map. That is a horrifying scene. Is anyone barfing yet? Are you freaking out?
01:38:31
Alfred. What? You spelled it, Alfred. Alfred. Oh, beautiful. Gorgeous. So much land back then.
01:38:46
Oh, no. That's what it looks like. Oh, man. And for the people in the back, it's fucked up.
01:38:55
That sucks and that sucks. Yeah. And that shit. Okay. So meanwhile, this whole time, Alfred's been in jail without any formal charges brought against him.
01:39:05
They're just holding him. So most people thought he had done something nefarious.
01:39:09
But there were other taxpayers in Swash County who were frustrated that their tax dollars were being wasted on a man who hadn't even been charged with anything.
01:39:18
So somebody goes and brings him a key to the jail. No. And he escapes. No. Which is such intense activism, even back then.
01:39:27
We're just like, not in my backyard, not with my tax dollar. Okay, Aunt Marie, Jesus.
01:39:35
So he escapes before the bodies are found. So when the authorities go to officially charge him, that's when they discover he's gone.
01:39:45
because they had him there for so long they kind of stopped paying attention to him.
01:39:49
So then they had to put out this reward. Oh, yeah, sir. Cannibal. The skulls really bring it home.
01:39:56
Yeah. Does that skull have an eye patch? Because why would you need it? Yeah. Or is it a little cute hat that's on the side?
01:40:06
Hard to say. It is difficult to say. I said all that. Reward poster. Okay. On March 11, 1883, a man named Gene Frenchy Cabezon.
01:40:26
This is the one I was waiting for. Frenchy comes into the scene. One of the original members of the expedition group to Breckenridge,
01:40:34
and he is coming through Cheyenne, Wyoming. And, oh my God. Is that everybody from Wyoming?
01:40:42
the whole state came to the show. Thank you. On horseback, you say. Bareback? With your periods the whole time?
01:40:57
Yes. Call back. Call back. Um, so this guy, Frenchie, Jean Frenchie Cabazon, he comes into Cheyenne and he's like,
01:41:09
that somebody's like oh yeah you should talk to Bob over there and he's like that's fucking
01:41:14
Alfred he knows it immediately so he grabs Alfred and brings him back to Denver where he gives an
01:41:21
yet another confession this one he signs on March 16th 1883 in this new account Alfred says that Bell told him to go find food and while he was gone Belle killed all the other men Okay dude And then when Alfred comes back he finds Belle eating one of the men and a fight between them breaks out and Alfred winds up killing Belle in self
01:41:43
I bet that's what happened. I bet that is what happened, but the places are reversed.
01:41:48
Because, you know, that's the best lie, is just say what actually happened, but just switch two people.
01:41:52
then you can retell it a thousand times. Again, criminal coaching from this podcast.
01:42:01
Okay. On April 6th. On April 6th, 1883. Is that today? Tonight! It was a night, much like tonight.
01:42:15
But it was a long time ago. But this is just the anniversary of the trial. Damn it.
01:42:21
That's boring. That's not haunted at all. On April 6th, 1883, Alfred Packer is tried in Lake City for five counts of murder.
01:42:31
Here's a drawing of that trial. Okay. Looks fun. There's like, you can come watch the trial, but you have to be bald, you have to have a beard, and you need your tall boots on.
01:42:42
And cross your legs. And leave the wife at home, would you please? God, help me.
01:42:51
Almost there. The trial last seven days. Alford's found guilty of the crime, sentenced to hang on May 19th, 1883.
01:43:00
His lawyers, however, find a legal loophole that allows him to dodge his death sentence.
01:43:04
They say that because Colorado was a territory and not a state at the time of the murders,
01:43:09
Alford could not be legally sentenced to death. Though he escapes the death penalty, he is still sent to jail.
01:43:15
But then the Colorado Supreme Court grants a second trial in Gunnison, believing that the general opinion of Alfred in Lake City was too negative.
01:43:25
So they're going to take you to two super positive people out in Gunnison. And they're like, you know what?
01:43:31
Eat what you want, man. Making the trial, having it in Lake City made it unfair.
01:43:40
So Alfred at this time pleads not guilty in the second trial, but is very quickly found guilty.
01:43:46
And on June 8th, 1886, Alfred's convicted on five counts of voluntary manslaughter and sentenced to 40 years in Cannon City Penitentiary.
01:43:55
There's his mugshot. Oh, wow. Doesn't he also look like he could be on either Chicago Fire, Chicago Police, Chicago 911, Chicago Sewer Systems.
01:44:10
All the civic duties are represented on ABC or whatever the fuck it is. It's creepy as shit.
01:44:18
So done. So almost done. He tries filing five separate appeals. They're all denied.
01:44:25
On February 8th, 1901, after a campaign led by an old friend of Alfred's, he apparently had one,
01:44:32
he is granted parole. When? What? In 1901. No. Mm-hmm. So, like, it's 14 years. So he lives out the rest of his days working as a guard and then a ranch hand until he finally passes away from, quote, dementia, trouble and worry.
01:44:53
I don't know. Should I have eaten all of them? I don't know. It's April 23rd, 1907.
01:45:04
When he dies, he's 65 years old. So the good news, we'll just do a quick silver lining at the end of this.
01:45:11
The good news is that now there is an Albert Packer day in Lake City. What? No. This is the flyer from 2016, but I went on the website.
01:45:24
Yeah. And everybody needs to start training because there's what's happening. Can I just say that's so tasteless?
01:45:36
Yeah, I feel I'm sorry. No, no. apologize to me if anyone not them there's a 5k called the run for your life
01:45:50
on May 25th Colorado you guys have like a month to train for this 5k get in there
01:45:57
wear an outfit represent and then after the 5k is followed up I'm not lying to you by a mystery meat cook off
01:46:06
no yes it is Please visit lakecity.com for more information. That's the nauseating story of the
01:46:15
cannibal of Colorado, Albert Packer. Sorry. We're going to need to see some murderinos
01:46:23
out there. If you run the 5K or participate in the Mystery Meat Cook-Off, please send
01:46:31
us every picture you can. We want to be there with you. It's important. Yeah, he can go away.
01:46:38
Wow, that was fucked up. Yeah, it was, right? Yeah. Do we have home for a murder town?
01:46:45
Do we have time for a hometown? It's home for a murder town time. Murder town. Not yet.
01:46:51
Hold on. Karen has rules. Yeah you guys know the rules but I just do it super quick for the people who are new If you don make it local I will pull your hair i just don understand the people who are just like yeah yeah i get it i get it local so i
01:47:06
from florida anyway has to be from colorado period right the state please but nearby is good too um
01:47:14
tell it quick we probably just did a two-hour show so we they want us out of here right about
01:47:20
now I would say and I have to pee and you're just to pee so brevity is the key and tell it good and
01:47:27
be good at it and if you don't think you're going to be great at it go ahead and just take a rest
01:47:33
for the next 15 minutes and if you're pointing at a person who has their hand up but you don't know
01:47:38
what the story is you're worse than the person who tells the story from out of state and now
01:47:44
Georgia will choose the hometown. I'm choosing. And you're going to go, let's see.
01:47:51
I don't know. I hate this so much. The pointing thing, yeah, the one, yes, that you're pointing at.
01:47:59
Yes. Go over there. Thank you. Hey, give us those faces, will you? Can we have those back?
01:48:06
Thank you. Thank you. Appreciate it. Oh, God. Thank you. Hi. You did it properly.
01:48:10
Oh, hi. What's your name? Margaret. Margaret. It's Margaret, everybody. Hi. I'm pregnant, so I haven't drank too much.
01:48:20
Yeah, oh, she's not drunk because she's pregnant. Oh, yay. Are you sure? Margaret, where are you from?
01:48:27
Okay, well, I'm from Florida, but this is a Colorado hometown, promise. Colorado.
01:48:32
Are you really from Florida? Are you really? Yeah. Holy shit. You have to admit I'm psychic.
01:48:37
You're psychic. Okay. So 2006, I worked with a psychopath named Travis Forbes for about one or two years, worked with him.
01:48:49
So let's fast forward to 2011. Wait, where did you work with him? Can't say. Well, let's just say it was a local natural food store.
01:48:58
Okay. Okay. Here in Denver. Yeah. Okay. Whole Foods? No. That's all right. sprouts. No, we're getting warmer though. Okay. So then let's fast forward to 2011. There's this
01:49:15
19 year old girl named Kenya Monet and she went out in downtown. She was out in Lodo.
01:49:22
She was going to go to one club. I guess she couldn't get in probably because she was 19.
01:49:27
So then she goes to another, like she didn't tell her friends I'm not coming to that club,
01:49:31
whatever. So she meets, she goes with these girls that she met in the cab. She's like,
01:49:35
all right, let's go to this other club. So whatever, she gets really wasted, I guess. I think she left
01:49:39
her phone and wallet in the club with these new girlfriends of hers. So then she's stumbling the streets of Denver.
01:49:47
She's all wasted. And a guy pulls up and is like, do you need a ride home? I don't know why she got in the car with him, etc. But she did.
01:49:56
And she's not seen again the next day. I guess the friends got her phone and wallet back to
01:50:02
her parents. They're going through her phone. There's like all these worried text messages.
01:50:07
This and that. One catches her dad's attention that says, hi, this is Travis. I hope you made
01:50:13
it home okay last night. So then, you know, he's kind of the number one suspect at this point.
01:50:18
The dad calls the cops. They're getting on this Travis Forbes guy. He has, I think like some
01:50:25
criminal like drug, maybe theft, whatever, but nothing major. So they're following him around.
01:50:31
he says, okay, well I just dropped her off at a gas station she wanted some cigarettes, I think she got a ride with another guy and never saw her again
01:50:40
I really hope she made it home safe, whatever so time goes on and they're trying to follow him, I think he stole a car
01:50:51
fled to Texas all of a sudden, they were tracking his cell phone records that night, and they pinged his cell phone
01:50:58
out in like the plains of Colorado, like northwest of here or northeast of here or whatever.
01:51:03
So, um, so that happens. And, um, so what happens next? Sorry. Um, so, okay. So then his white van,
01:51:15
he has a white van. Okay. Hopefully she didn't get in that. Cause then that's like a really
01:51:18
red flag. The worst red flag of all time. So the cops get in his white van and it's just like
01:51:24
reeks of bleach. There's new carpet. He makes his own gluten-free granola at this point. He's like
01:51:29
owning his own company. So they have, they have video footage of him going to his bakery space
01:51:36
that he's renting out from another lady with a huge cooler, dragging this huge cooler into a
01:51:42
walk-in freezer. And they're like, that's weird. You don't usually have to freeze granola. Like,
01:51:46
what's he doing? Then he like turns off the camera. So they're like, okay, this guy's sketchy.
01:51:51
so they don't they just don't quite have enough on him yet so then three months later it's july 4th
01:51:58
he's in fort collins so there's like fireworks fort collins fourth of july whatever so he
01:52:05
finds another girl he wants to attack i guess and gets back to her apartment rapes um thinks he beats
01:52:14
her to death covers her body in bleach and sets her apartment on fire well that girl turns out
01:52:19
She's a badass, right? So she wakes up jumps out of her second floor She like in a coma whatever So she in the hospital in a coma they get underneath her fingernails and find DNA and it Travis Forbes DNA
01:52:35
Holy shit! Yeah. So then, that's it, so then they have him in jail for the attempted murder and arson of this second girl,
01:52:45
and that's when he, under pressure of the detectives, confesses that he, that Kenya Monet, the night of her disappearance,
01:52:54
passed out. He raped her once. He decided he could do it one more time. She woke up the second time, and he killed her,
01:53:04
buried her in a shallow grave in the plains of Colorado. And now he's going to be serving life in prison without parole
01:53:11
for the first girl and another 48 years for the second attempt. Wow. Perfectly done.
01:53:19
Yes, that was great. You knew him? Yeah. I invited him to my keg party once like when we worked together
01:53:27
like we kind of there was some crew that went out for happy hours and it like haunts me later
01:53:32
like I invited him he calls me he's like hey Margaret I'm not going to make it to your party
01:53:36
I haven't been drinking lately I stopped drinking and I'm worried about what I might do
01:53:41
if I get drunk tonight he said something super creepy like that did he seem creepy?
01:53:46
just never think about that again yeah oh my god Margaret amazing job Margaret, amazing.
01:53:53
So good. Great job. So good. That's for you. Yeah. Yeah. Great job. Wow. Oh, that's awful.
01:54:05
Oh, my God. You know what that story made me think, though, is that I love now we know, like, this community of murderinos.
01:54:12
Like, we see a girl who's alone, or she's our friend, or she's someone we meet in a cab, and we don't let her walk off alone.
01:54:19
No, never. We don't do that now. Even if it's someone we don't fucking know, we go up and say, honey, let me take care of you.
01:54:28
Yes. Why not? Because, yeah. Because, come on. Good job, guys. That made me start crying.
01:54:36
Just the idea of it. I think people know to do that already, but I think there's something about this wave of true crime popularity,
01:54:43
people being able to say, yeah, I like it, I'm interested, I follow this, I already know about all this stuff,
01:54:48
I've seen this story four times that now is emboldening people to be like, yeah, I'm going to be the person that walks up and goes, are you okay?
01:54:55
Okay, great. I don't want to get in your face, but I do want to be here if you need me.
01:54:59
And that enables other people to reach out and say, I do need you. Like, that's a thing that you guys are doing.
01:55:10
We're just up here talking about our fucking, my gray roots that are growing in constantly.
01:55:15
but this community is as we always say but it's really true it's this beautiful thing that has
01:55:21
grown up out of something so regular and casual to us that's now just we just get to watch it grow
01:55:28
and it is it's so impressive and you are giving us you're making all our dreams come true we get
01:55:34
to do all the stuff that we love to do and it's because you like it and you support it and you
01:55:40
come out and we'll never be able to thank you enough so thank you so so much and thanks for another amazing show
01:55:49
Denver we fucking love it this was perfection I was worried they said they said this show is sold out
01:56:00
and it's 5,000 seats and I'm like it's going to be fucking mayhem it's going to be
01:56:05
I'm going to have to yell at every single individual person how can I control this
01:56:09
and you guys were a beautiful perfect audience thank you so much thank you for being here thank you for listening we adore you guys stay saved do god's mission
01:56:21
yes always please i always want to send that message but more than that stay sexy and
01:56:27
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you in part by Vital Farms. Have you noticed that the egg section at the grocery store has gotten
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