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Goodbye. What was that? That was a little devil inside you speaking. Oh my god. Also, you didn't feel it coming up because you opened your mouth.
00:02:35
We just looked at each other as we do before we start. I have a moment of holy shit.
00:02:41
This is what's happened. That's what I do at least. This is huge. This is real. This is the part where we have to podcast and be good at it.
00:02:47
Yeah. Opened our mouths to speak at the same time. And the weirdest sound came out of my fucking mouth.
00:02:53
You call it a sound. others might call it a burp it wasn't a burp yeah it was like a little bubble that like came
00:02:59
it was like a brave little bubble that came back up to say i'm getting out of here oh wow that was
00:03:05
hilarious excuse me it looked like you were doing a bit of like talking but burping instead
00:03:11
awesome welcome to my favorite murder it's a podcast it's a podcast that's karen that's george
00:03:19
hard start and we are your podcast um hosts for the night we're the hosts and we're gonna lead you
00:03:26
along the burpy way the burpest the burpiest do it i made a deadly mistake before directly before
00:03:33
we started this is it the pickles or the diet coke it's the combination of the two which that
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might be the new flavor we need to talk about karen's adorable snack that she's eating right
00:03:43
now that just like makes me so happy. Like when people make a snack that's got like a little bit
00:03:49
of this and that on it, it's just the best. So thank you. What a great compliment. This is a
00:03:56
stolen snack. So my friend Karen Anderson, who if you want to listen to her podcast,
00:04:01
it's Dining with Doug and Karen that she has with Doug Benson. Nice. And she's a big food
00:04:05
aficionado foodie person herself and a great cook. But this was a snack she made up from when we
00:04:12
worked together long ago and you can buy all of the ingredients of it at Trader Joe's and what it
00:04:18
is. So when the next time you go to your Trader Joe's, get Akmok crackers, A-K-M-A-K. They're the
00:04:24
fucking hippie crackers that my mom's been buying. They got the sesame on it and I know you roll your
00:04:28
eyes at them when you see them. They're impossible to close back up. Yes, they still have the old
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school cellophane only wrapper. So you're on your own. But they're great. They're so good and
00:04:38
and sesame delicious. Then you get some of the pepper jack cheese that they have sliced.
00:04:44
Not the block. No, only no. Pre-sliced. Don't be a fucking sociopath and get a block of cheese.
00:04:51
No, don't be crazy. This is splurge on the pre-sliced because that actually is a major element.
00:04:57
Because see, when you get this, it's a square of pre-sliced. But when you fold it in half, it becomes exactly the size of an Akmok cracker.
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Holy shit. It fits perfectly onto the cracker. Then you have to go, oh, sorry, this is actually, it's, we looked today when Stephen and I were at Trader Joe's, but they didn't have the stackable pickles.
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Usually you can get those flat. Those sandwich. I don't think Trader Joe's fucks with that.
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Really? I feel like Trader Joe's is like, look, we have spears, we have whole, and we have sliced.
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Yeah. And that's all we do. That's right. If you want more, you know, go somewhere else.
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It's amazing they haven't figured out how to steal the sliced stackable pickles because they steal every other good food product that there is and make it their own.
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I respect it. Anyway. So you have a fucking pickle on the side. Actually, you should put it when it's a stackable, you can stack it on top.
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But now I have a spear. I like it better. And that creates insanity for Stephen and I were literally eating these over the sink because they were so damp.
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Can I suggest a fucking squirt of yellow mustard on that shit Not to me Okay then I won I don like mustard But yes to another person They might love that How about a fucking smear and don hear me out of fucking I hate the word dollop
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so I'm not going to say that, of apricot jam. What? No, I don't think so. Now I sound pregnant.
00:06:16
But I'm not. I'm not pregnant. But that's how we'll know. Well, you know what? It would be interesting to see if people want to make this and try it out.
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And then go ahead and. Oh, yeah. Put your own spin on it. Put your own spin. Give.
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What's your favorite? I almost called you Virginia. I'm not kidding. What? I don't.
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It's the beginning of the end. It's the beginning of the end for me. We all know it.
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It makes sense. Try Georgia's dollop of mustard plan. Go ahead and give apricot jam a whirl.
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We want to know your favorite cracker snack. Yes. Because all I want. Mine originated from Triscuits and cheese, which is my mother's mainstay through the 70s.
00:06:55
And then she went into a Wheatsworth area. But this is the Trader Joe's new fangled version from Karen Anderson.
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So give that a whirl. See if you like it and then see if you have anything to add.
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And it's all topped on a plate by our friend Scarlet River, who's a really great artist on Instagram, on a really cute Victorian looking plate that says.
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Buy your own shit. Get out of the forest. Stay out of the forest. Oh, actually, it has Get a Job, but it was covered by pickles.
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I didn't see that. So that's what's going on at the Exactly Right Studios today.
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Even you might want to take a picture of that for later. That's right. For the people.
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Instagram. It'll be there. Yeah. Good stuff. Anyhow, this show started out, the 15 minutes before we started recording, it was as if we were preparing for a belching contest with the things that we've been doing.
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That's been Snack Corner. Yeah. That's the newest corner. Enjoy it. Enjoy it or else.
00:07:48
What else kind of corner? Well, let's see. Can I let's do Marty corner real quick.
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Great. So, excuse me. A couple of weeks. Okay. A couple of stories about my dad.
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One is that he so he's on the fan cult in the fan cult. He's active in the fan cult.
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Sure. He's on the chat message boards and everything like that. He's out there ready to communicate.
00:08:12
He's ready. And so we have someone who's now handling our fan cult and doing a great job of it.
00:08:19
But he, his name's Denton, he took the name, the screen name, Dadarino on the fan cult.
00:08:27
And my dad fucking texted me and said, hey, who's Dadarino? Like, he was mad about it.
00:08:32
So Denton changed his fucking name. Did Denton give him Dadarino? I don't know if he gave it.
00:08:37
I don't know if he could take it, but it's now his. That's hilarious. So recently my dad was, we were having lunch and he said to me, you know, you know how, because he comes to a lot of shows, live shows, you know how when I'm in the audience and you're saying negative things about your mother and then you stop and, you know, tell me you're sorry in the show.
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You know, I just want you to know, I don't, I don't mind when you talk about her.
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on stage like that he's basically like i would love for you to talk shit about your mother
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in front of all of these people don't worry about me i've been trying to get the one up on jennet
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for years and you're helping me okay one more thing about my parents i gave my mom i got it
00:09:19
special and exactly right our fucking podcast network i got her a mug that we have it's like
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i'm like i've saved it and i finally saw her and gave it to her she left it in gelson's
00:09:29
so if you live in fucking wherever the shit she lives la and find a fucking exactly right mug with
00:09:36
cold coffee in it how shitty is that it's her daughter's company yeah like i fuck i'm an
00:09:43
entrepreneur you are it doesn't change that whether janet has that mug and on a little
00:09:49
a little podium in the middle of her no it wouldn't be a podium if she has it on a little
00:09:54
platform in her kitchen who brings a mug to a fucking grocery store second question yeah why
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wouldn't you just have it let's have that be the travel mug let's do it janet but she's actually
00:10:04
just kind of rolling out of the house still holding the coffee mug that she started with
00:10:08
that morning maybe she was proud of me and was like doing it with the thing out and like walking
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around with it but then she forgot it was there and walked away yeah because maybe because gelson's
00:10:17
now you have to talk about and if you don't live in los angeles you might not know gelson's is a
00:10:21
rich people grocery store high end there's a wine bar in it there's a wine bar there's baklava
00:10:27
They are. Olive Bucks. Pucks has some kind of station. Yeah. There's all kinds of things to have.
00:10:33
Right. She might have just got caught up in the lifestyle. I get it. Maybe hit that wine bar beforehand.
00:10:38
She's like, goat cheese. I love that. Sweeps around the olive bar. Yeah. Throws down the mug, shatters in a million pieces.
00:10:45
Goodbye. Okay. I feel better. I don't know. What do you have? Let's see. Oh, we were going to recommend some podcasts, right?
00:10:52
Oh, yeah. Things we've been listening to. Let's do Podcast Corner. Okay. So my podcast corner, we'll switch it on over.
00:10:57
And I don't tell me if I've well, I kind of don't want to know if I've mentioned this already because it's horrifying.
00:11:02
But so let's see the podcast I listened to the last time I drove home because and I've I've plugged John Ronson's stuff before.
00:11:10
He's one of my favorite writers. He's a British journalist and he's an amazing investigative journalist investigative.
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And he he has a new podcast out called The Last Days of August. So he had a pod his podcast before that was called The Butterfly Effect.
00:11:27
And it was all about the porn industry and how it changed after the digital takeover.
00:11:32
Cool. And he got to know some people and he learned about this story about the death of a porn star named August Ames.
00:11:42
I believe her name is. And so this podcast is about that death, essentially. Do you have to listen to the first one to like really get into the second one?
00:11:49
No. He makes it super. He introduces it perfectly basically explains how he came up like stumbled upon the story and it is really it not true crime in that way But it an in investigative story Yes About the kind of about the lifestyle
00:12:06
Cause that's like a deep dive. You don't get no at all. Unless you're talking about like real sex on HBO or shit.
00:12:13
And I feel like for a long time, it was very important for people to kind of push that idea that like,
00:12:18
there are people in the sex industry who are really into it and they wanted to be there.
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And this wasn't this, this victimized state that a lot of people were in, which is important for people to feel empowered and to be like,
00:12:28
no, fuck you. This is my decision, which is a real thing. This is a different story.
00:12:34
So this is almost kind of like, but there, there are, uh, well, you just listen to it.
00:12:38
Cause I better, better to listen to it than have me describe it. It sounds dark and deep and I'm fucking it.
00:12:43
I'm there. He's just a very good journalist. And what he makes is important to hear.
00:12:49
What's it called again? It's called the last days of August. and it's john ronson's new podcast i'm listening to it sweet um i'm listening to a couple true
00:12:56
crime ones as i always do and then um i'm also when i need to not do that because it gets fucking
00:13:02
dark sometimes sure i am listening to this i listen to this podcast and have for so long
00:13:07
called be wealthy and smart and it's my financial guru linda p jones who's like she's there for it's
00:13:17
like it's catered towards women and women understanding you know everything about finances
00:13:23
so that they can take a hold of their fucking lives and like be in charge so important that's
00:13:27
so important she has a book that i'm reading called um you're already a wealth heiress now
00:13:31
think and act like one it's like ridiculous but i fucking love it so much what am i the heiress of
00:13:40
your wealth you're the heiress of the del monte pickle fortune congratulations oh my god yeah i
00:13:46
just i like her message and it's you know and in the podcast is like anything you you just read the
00:13:51
titles of them and you'll find one that you should listen to and it's just it's like it's smart it's
00:13:55
very good and like a listenable because a lot of times i think or at least speaking for myself
00:14:00
um it's like a whole area that gives me like so much anxiety just thinking about it or money
00:14:07
yeah yeah of like things i've fucked up or immediately it just puts my mind to where i
00:14:11
fucked things up so it's really good to listen to people who know what they're talking about
00:14:15
basically telling you you can do this yeah you can figure this out and you can be in charge she's
00:14:20
really knowledgeable and there's even stories about like um financial abuse in relationships
00:14:25
which like i didn't even know was a thing until i listened to it what is that like keeping money
00:14:29
from people yeah yeah to keep you in the relationship weird ways to control control
00:14:33
you yeah there's so there's like kind of and then there's also like how you know six ways to pay off
00:14:37
debt or whatever it's just like there's everything that's great and so and she has these like little
00:14:41
bits of knowledge that she fucking imparts to you. And it's, it's just great. Here's one of my ways.
00:14:46
I got a Kohl's card last Christmas. I was at Kohl's. I was buying Nora a whole bunch of stuff
00:14:51
because the Kohl's is right, you know, like right in town in Petaluma. And when I got up to the
00:14:57
register, I may have told this story, but the lady that worked there was every, everybody's mom from
00:15:03
when I was eight years old. So she already had a power over me. Yeah. And she added up my stuff
00:15:07
and looked and goes, girl, if you get a Kohl's card, you'll get like $200 off. And I was like,
00:15:12
are you serious? And she goes, Oh, yeah, we're doing this thing. And then she just basically
00:15:15
made it. She made me do it and made it happen and did it really quickly. It was like she should be
00:15:22
commended by the Kohl's Corporation that happened to me. But I was like 23. And it was a Victoria
00:15:27
Secret card, which I never shopped at. And I was I just like, I didn't get what was happening.
00:15:32
yeah and then suddenly i was i had my first credit card did it go badly no no no i mean i never shot
00:15:39
there again oh good it's a terrible company but i have such bad credit that any line of credit they
00:15:44
give me i can take that and use it to fix my credit totally so even though because i went to
00:15:49
so um i went to my accountant and then she goes i see you got a kohl's card very good move because
00:15:55
i thought she would be like what are you doing close that down no if you get approved for it
00:15:59
Fucking great. Get approved and then buy things and then pay it off in a timely manner.
00:16:03
You can fix your own stuff. But guys, listen to Linda P. Jones before you do all this because it's strategic.
00:16:08
You need to be strategic. And if you're scared of all this shit. I know nothing.
00:16:12
If you're scared of it, knowledge is power. The more you know, the smarter decisions you'll make.
00:16:18
That's right. And remember, there's people that are in it every single day. It's scary to you when it's this foreign land that you know you don't know how to navigate in any way.
00:16:26
but there's people like Linda P. Jones who that's their life and they can really give you advice of
00:16:31
like oh no this is the real this is how it actually is separate from your fears I'm learning so much
00:16:36
I mean I know yeah that's great I almost said I know everything you're three podcasts and I'm done
00:16:43
that's it I'm so smart um also okay so let's do um fan cult corner we just put up a Q&A
00:16:49
video that oh yes I really like it it's super cute yeah and we um the people who are now doing
00:16:55
our website with us and our fan cult with us who we love and our good friends um have these great
00:17:00
ideas that they're like helping us produce this stuff so now it's just like more there's going to
00:17:04
be more and more of that kind of stuff because we can think of an idea and be like can we do this
00:17:08
and they're like yeah and then in a month and be like here it is yeah which is so rare and crazy
00:17:12
it's the best it's like yeah and it's stuff that we like that's good for us so karen i just thought
00:17:18
of something our book comes out in three fucking weeks is that true yeah why didn't you tell me
00:17:25
it'll be 18 days I think as of tomorrow what happens what if it's what if everyone
00:17:32
is mad at us everyone's gonna be mad and laugh at us at the same time what if that happens
00:17:36
we'll move to the beach okay Venice yeah we'll just then we'll get some of those
00:17:41
that's what those Southwest gotta get away tickets are for and you just and you're gonna get
00:17:46
out of town Galapagos we'll go back to Albuquerque remember how great it was there
00:17:50
yeah loved it there it was really beautiful so nice okay our book coming out everyone we wrote a book and we didn just write a book It our memoir We fucking spilled some shit I told the story of getting my nipple pierced for the first time
00:18:06
Yeah. There's some really, if you're looking for the inside scoop, we basically scooped it all out and poured it into this thing.
00:18:13
Yes or no. It's essentially a blog. Yes. It is. We should have asked for it to be a black background with neon green writing.
00:18:21
And then, like, space stuff on the sides. Yeah, and like weird words that are highlighted that you can look up.
00:18:26
No, it's great. Search for your name. It's going to be great. Oh, and like there's like fan art in it.
00:18:32
Yes. It's just so cool. They laid it out and designed it with, you know, or we did too.
00:18:38
I mean, we were part of it. I think we kind of insisted on having listeners art in the book.
00:18:43
And they made it happen and it looks great. And there's also fun family photos. We have like personal photos of different points of our life.
00:18:52
It's just like, it's kind of amazing. If nothing else, I mean, it's heavy enough to be a paperweight.
00:18:57
And you can also donate it to your local thrift store. That's right. You could also, if you, this summer, if you do, if you and your friends do bonfires at the beach, boom.
00:19:08
Light it up. Get like four of those. Kindling. Throw them on. Kindling. Kindling.
00:19:12
If you're against books or what we do, kindling. Kindling. Get in there. Get a pot-bellied stove for your cabin.
00:19:19
and we're just here to try to help you do whatever you want um if you like it and you read it
00:19:25
then there's going to be an audio book i mean there's just like layer after layer happening
00:19:30
what is happening oh turn the light off that's why it's too bright in here okay that's right oh
00:19:36
there we go okay now that's much better now we're podcasting now we're not in school anymore
00:19:41
now we're out of the fluorescence so yeah get ready for the book thing we're talking to each
00:19:46
other when I say that. Stay sexy. Yeah, you get ready for it. Get ready for it. Karen, should we
00:19:52
start? No, I have a corrections corner. Okay. Even though it's a while ago, my corrections.
00:19:59
Oh, I said this on stage. Oh, yeah. In Oklahoma City. But I feel like that's it needs to be brought
00:20:05
to more people. Oh, by the way, we've I mean, every weekend of this tour, and there's been plenty
00:20:12
has been amazing and remarkable. But this last weekend, Oklahoma City gave us an ovation when we walked on stage
00:20:22
that is the loudest thing I've ever heard in my life. Yeah, it was. They brought the thunder in such a meaningful, powerful way.
00:20:28
And also it went on for a while. You guys are beautiful. Oklahoma City, thank you so much.
00:20:33
And they were so grateful that we came to Oklahoma City. It was hilarious. They were the best.
00:20:40
The whole thing. I mean, it's just it's insane standing on stage and being clapped up.
00:20:44
Yeah, it doesn't. It's so hard to to absorb and take in. Right. It's insane and amazing. And I love it. I love it. And I'm just also so fucking humbled by it.
00:20:55
Yeah. And yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had a weekend of humbling shows. Yeah. And the ones in Dallas and Houston were huge and beautiful.
00:21:05
And we just thank you guys so much again. And we know we say it all the time. But thank you so much for showing up and having the enthusiasm you do.
00:21:12
And thank you to the person in Oklahoma City who threw up in the audience. Oh, two people threw up.
00:21:20
One in the balcony, one on the lower level. Right, which we were hoping was off the balcony, but it wasn't, unfortunately.
00:21:26
They kept it inside the balcony. In the middle of our Oklahoma City show, it's quiet.
00:21:30
I think Karen's doing her murder. It's me, yeah. And we just hear out of the corner of our ears.
00:21:36
I saw. I had the visual. You saw it. I didn't see. I just heard it. The very angry and rightfully so very angry usher who had to clean up this person's puke snapped, took out a plastic garbage bag and snapped it out three times.
00:21:50
Like your mom, when you haven't emptied the garbage and she just went to do it to prove a point.
00:21:54
Three times in a silent fucking theater. Because I was going to ignore it. And I was like, OK, something obviously happened.
00:22:01
But because one snap out of like, I just need this thing to be bigger. snapping at three times is like fuck you all it was like you could practically hear it it was
00:22:10
hilarious it was we loved it it was really uh so you guys they brought it i mean they brought it
00:22:16
in every way everybody made it special in their own way um but on this that stage i was just um
00:22:23
i brought up the fact that i went into that thing where i was trying to think of the word for an
00:22:27
elizabethan rough um but i was talking about the renaissance and the restoration i went all
00:22:32
all over the map but lots of people were like just tweeting me going elizabethan or i was like yeah
00:22:39
that's what it was yeah um i should have been there for that how i don't know how um and the
00:22:45
other one was there were some people who misunderstood me i think unless i misspoke
00:22:49
but when i did the story i had i tried to explain that we were in st louis but i picked a story that
00:22:57
happened in kansas city right that was the left river story that i did um that was the
00:23:02
the Hyatt walkway collapse. Right. You didn't think that it was in one city or another.
00:23:06
I knew that I knew the collapse happened in Kansas city at that Hyatt, but it, we,
00:23:11
I was picking it because we were in St. Louis and it was in the same state, but I got a couple of tweets from people who are fired up of like,
00:23:18
excuse me, that happened in Kansas city. And I was like, yeah, I know, but there's definitely a chance that I said St.
00:23:23
Louis at some point, but that's not guys. We can't keep track of your fucking college team rival reviews.
00:23:31
Okay. I mean, I know you want to boo this place and yay this place, but we don't understand.
00:23:38
It's meaningless to us. But my problem is that I think because I said I was picking this story for St. Louis,
00:23:46
people are like, how dare you? But they're not thinking. I was being too inside my own brain.
00:23:52
I get it, though. Essentially. I get it. You get it, and that's all that matters.
00:23:56
It's all that matters. Oh, wait, and sorry. One more is fasty. Because we had another one of the ones, like the woman who said, my sister is dying in the meet and greet.
00:24:06
Which one? Tell me. So the original was a woman who, right as we were getting our picture taken at the meet and greet, the woman goes, my sister's dying.
00:24:14
And both of us turn out of that, like during the picture, turn toward her and are like, what's going on?
00:24:19
Are you okay? I'm so sorry. And then she goes, no, she's just so jealous that she's not here.
00:24:23
And we were like, you can't do that. Like, we screamed at her. It was hilarious.
00:24:27
And, of course, we all laughed. Like, what the hell? so it happened again in Dallas right
00:24:32
where the woman said I left my husband right as we're taking pictures she said I left my husband
00:24:41
so of course we think it must have been an issue that's so strong you're so brave or whatever and we turn to get the story
00:24:47
and she goes at the bar across the street and we're just like please watch the phrasing
00:24:53
get out of here we all laughed about that one it was so funny pretty good so many good moments in those fucking me and greets it's truly overwhelming it's so fun
00:25:02
and there are people who are like do you hate this is it too and we're just like we fucking love it
00:25:07
you must be tired it's like no we have adrenaline to the fucking hill yep we just did a show in
00:25:12
front of fucking clapping people who barf so much we need to talk to somebody about it
00:25:17
vince can't do it anymore doesn't care yeah so thank you all everybody and uh yeah good night no yes yes
00:25:27
And so then, Stephen? Karen goes first tonight. All right, then. So as you've all probably caught on, this is a story that was left over.
00:25:41
I had it for, I think it was the Houston show, and then I switched my story at the last minute.
00:25:47
Sorry, I have to log back into my laptop. They can hear your password. They can tell what it is.
00:25:54
Can I tell what it is? Nope. It's like, nope, not that. I can't talk and write it in at the same time.
00:25:59
Be silent. This is a podcast. Everyone, shut up. Okay, I got it. Yeah, so basically this meant I had homework already done when I got home, which is just a miracle feeling.
00:26:09
Beautiful thing. It's truly the best. This is an oldie or older. You know what it felt like when we were there?
00:26:17
is these are those kinds of stories that have already been covered on every 2020, every Dateline,
00:26:23
every, you know, American justice and whatever. Because a lot of those stories are rich people murdering each other, which is I am in for
00:26:34
1000%. Sure, do it. I love it. It's like the world you can't be in anyway. Yeah.
00:26:41
And then it does not mean you're happy just because you're rich and you have everything.
00:26:46
it actually usually means bad things are going to happen. Or at least it seems like,
00:26:52
uh, it seems that case based on city confidential. That is a hundred percent true as well as,
00:26:57
um, Dominic Dunn's power, privilege and justice. You know, we forgot to talk about what the Ted Bundy movie.
00:27:04
Did you watch it? Yeah. I haven't watched it. Okay. Let's wait till next week. Okay.
00:27:08
Oh, I swear I'll watch it and I'll have, I'll have all kinds of opinions. Okay, great.
00:27:12
Can you just give me one hint as to how my boy did? Second. Zac Efron was great.
00:27:16
Yes, he is. Oh. Am I right? Oh, if there's a discussion about the negativity, it's not Zac Efron.
00:27:23
Hello. Thank you. Hi. Okay, great. No, he was great. Great. I knew he would be. Did he get the dead eyes right?
00:27:30
Oh, yeah. Okay, good. Yeah, no, he was good. Awesome. I can't wait to watch it. You know what?
00:27:34
I will watch it tonight. Okay. I fucking swear to you, George, I'll watch it tonight.
00:27:39
You swear to me right now, Aaron. I swear to you with everything I have. Okay. So this is the murder of Joan Robinson Hill.
00:27:48
Okay. Joan Robinson, who later on, Hill, she's born February 6, 1931, to an unmarried woman.
00:27:57
So she's put up for adoption because it's the 30s. God forbid. Yeah. Those women had to be disappeared.
00:28:03
Right. Oh, God. I listened to the most insane criminal episode about a woman who used to go around trying
00:28:09
to get white babies to adopt. Have you ever heard that? White babies were adopting other babies?
00:28:14
oh she was trying to get babies adopting babies they can't handle it the paperwork alone do we
00:28:23
have an mtv reality show about that yet they're dirt biking and swearing oh getting people to adopt
00:28:31
white babies yes there there was there was a lot suddenly there was no more um stigma on adoption
00:28:37
because for a long time it was like if it's not your real baby or it's all that it was all that
00:28:41
craziness about adoption. And suddenly it became acceptable. And then it was like,
00:28:49
you have to hear it. Is it like, hey, you kind of don't want your baby? Give it to me.
00:28:53
And then like, adopt me. That's how it started. This woman had it justified in her mind.
00:28:58
That's how it started. And then she would go up and trick poor women into going,
00:29:01
oh, your baby's sick. I'm a nurse and I work for the hospital. And she would just steal their baby.
00:29:05
Just steal your baby. It's a recent one on Criminal. Please listen to it. It's the best. Why am I even talking about that?
00:29:11
Oh, because of this adoption thing. Okay. So she's put up for adoption a month later.
00:29:16
A very successful Houston oilman named Ash Robinson and his wife Rhea adopt her because they can't have kids themselves.
00:29:24
So she's the only child of an oil magnate. Girl, get it. What does she have? Horses.
00:29:31
Horses. Horses. Of course. Horses everywhere. Horses for days. And not those dumb plastic ones that you had as a girl.
00:29:39
Pedagree. And I shouldn't say dumb because they're the one I got and when I got it I was just like it was as if my parents gave me a real horse.
00:29:46
Yeah. Those plastic horses. It was like sure one foot was up you put it up on the window so you're you're golden.
00:29:52
You're trotting away to fucking childhood happiness. And then you get your period and it all ends Okay Anyhow she loves horses from when she three years old So of course her father immediately buys her one She starts writing lessons at age three
00:30:07
Holy shit. So she's in it to win it. But she's a natural horsewoman. She begins competing when she's seven years old.
00:30:15
And between 1938, when she's seven, and 1945, when she's 14, she places either first or second in every competition she enters.
00:30:23
So there was some amazing quote about some equestrian competition judge that had seen her ride and had this big quote about how unbelievably majestic and perfect she was as a rider.
00:30:40
So after high school, she attends Stevens College in Columbia, Missouri. Stevens College!
00:30:44
Stevens College, the fighting. The Pinocchios. Pinocchios. Steven's favorite Disney movie.
00:30:53
That's right. Why do they keep fighting each other, those Pinocchios? Because of the swords.
00:30:58
It's all that. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so she doesn't get great grades, but she has a very active social life.
00:31:05
She's the perfect socialite. She's blonde. Like, in the pictures of her later on in the 50s, she has, like, little blonde bangs.
00:31:12
Yeah, women don't need good grades in the 50s. That's not what they're there for.
00:31:15
No. If you've got a rich dad and horses and you're good at parties, you're set. Good grades were just gravy.
00:31:21
Good grades were for nerds. Good grades would probably work against you in the socialite scene in the 50s.
00:31:27
Don't be too smart. Don't upset the man. Yeah. Okay, so her parents, while she's in college, lease a suite of rooms in a hotel near the college.
00:31:36
And then they come and visit her regularly. Wow. So she's clearly the apple of their eye.
00:31:41
Sure. When she's in college, she gets married and divorced a couple times. A couple times?
00:31:47
Damn, girl! Yeah, because she's out socializing and it's the 50s. You know, when you're like, hey, do you want to go get coffee and get married real quick?
00:31:54
Yeah. Well, it's probably like, hey, we should have sex, but we can't, so we better get married.
00:32:01
So, first it was a man named Spike Benton, who was a Navy pilot. and then she got married to a man named Cecil Burglass
00:32:09
who was a New Orleans lawyer and he was a childhood friend. And Ash disapproved of both men
00:32:16
and neither marriage lasts more than six months. Poor Spike and Cecil. Yeah. So I think she was probably like,
00:32:22
I'll do what I want, daddy. And she goes and gets married to whoever and then she's like,
00:32:27
this sucks. I want my horses and my dad back. Okay, but then on September 28th, 1957, so this is obviously when she's out of college, I would think.
00:32:41
If anybody's doing the year's math, you would hope. 57, 24, yes, yeah. Unless her grades are really bad, she should be out of college by now.
00:32:52
That's right. She gets married to a man named Dr. John Hill, and he is one of Houston's top plastic surgeons.
00:32:59
Ooh, plastic surgery in the 50s. In the late 50s. Fuck that shit. That's when they were like, here's the plastic surgery procedure we're going to do for your nose job.
00:33:07
I'm going to hit you with this hammer. Stay still, ma'am. Ma'am. See, what we do is put chip clips on the side of your face and pull it back as tight as we can.
00:33:17
And then just staple it there. Stay still. You got your facelift. Then we staple it.
00:33:20
We'll give you a couple shots of Novocaine in that skin. And you're on your own.
00:33:24
Good night. So he was not just a plastic surgeon. He was an avid, very talented piano player.
00:33:33
So the first six years of their marriage, 1957 and 1963, they lived on Joan's parents' property.
00:33:41
They lived near Ash's house, basically. And they were a huge part of the Houston social scene.
00:33:47
But otherwise, they lived pretty separate lives. Joan is still all about her horseback riding.
00:33:53
And John is focusing on obviously his medical practice and his piano playing and his music in general.
00:34:00
And his chip clips. And he's figuring out smaller and better chip clips to clip onto the back of women's scalps.
00:34:07
So on June 14th, 1960, Joan gives birth to their son, Robert Ashton, nicknamed Boot Hill.
00:34:14
Boot Hill. Named after the famous Western Cemetery. You know, fun stuff for kids.
00:34:20
Cute. Joan tells her father that she wants to breed horses and start a riding school.
00:34:25
So she says that. So he buys her a farm that they call Chatsworth Farm. It opens in 1963 and it becomes a site for an annual picnic that the hills host.
00:34:37
So you can feel this like oil money, horse people, social wealth, wealth, wealth, wealth.
00:34:43
Generational wealth. That's right. Old money. Yeah. 1965, John and Joan finally buy their own house at 1561 Kirby Drive, but it's just down the street from Joan's parents' house.
00:34:57
So in-law city. John tells Joan that he wants to turn one of the rooms of this new house into a music room for himself.
00:35:06
And so he asks Joan's father, he asks Ash for $10,000 to build it. What? But Ash thinks that's a stupid idea and refuses to give him the money.
00:35:19
I have to agree with Ash. Right? Like, build it yourself. $10,000 back then is how much today.
00:35:25
Back then, I would say easily $70,000. Yeah. If not more. More. $700,000. Well, yeah, I guess it would be up in maybe $200,000.
00:35:34
Yeah, let's go $200,000. Let's go $200,000. Let's meet in the middle at $200,000.
00:35:38
A lot of money. But you have to imagine, though, Dr. John Hill, one of the leading plastic surgeon hammer wielders of the Houston area.
00:35:48
He's watching her buy horses left, right and center and open a farm. So he's like, how about me and my passions?
00:35:53
I want a thing. Yeah I want a thing too And it doesn really work that way I feel like with rich people you got to bring that wealth with Sure Borrowing doesn sit well with a lot of those self men
00:36:05
Well, her horse farm, or whatever the fuck it is, is about to make a lot of money, right?
00:36:10
Because it's like a business. Yes. But fucking putting a drum kit and a piano in your fucking basement is not going to bring
00:36:17
in the box. No, that's mostly for like, I just want you to have great weekends. Yeah.
00:36:21
I just want you to feel fulfilled. That's a vintage man cave. Yes, it is. I am so angry at this story for making me say Man Cave.
00:36:29
Never forgive it. Never. Okay. You know, he gets the big no. So John goes and gets a loan from a bank.
00:36:37
Oh, wait, sorry. One of the other reasons that Ash didn't said no was because he lent them part of the money to buy this house in the first place.
00:36:44
So, you know, you're already not that into borrowing and this guy's coming back for more.
00:36:49
So I'm sure Ash Robinson was just like, get out of here. Make your own money, plastic surgeon.
00:36:54
So John gets a loan from the bank and then commissions someone to build the music room for him.
00:37:00
And he quickly exceeds that $10,000 budget. And he spends around $75,000. Holy shit.
00:37:07
In that day's money. I mean, in today's money, $10,000 is too much for a music room.
00:37:11
Yes. And then if you do math, well. Well, you're going half a million dollars probably.
00:37:17
That's right. To add a music room onto your house. Don't do that. When they finally finished the room in 1969, he had spent roughly, oh, here we go, $100,000 on that music room, which is the equivalent of $700,000 today.
00:37:31
He was closer to a million dollars. Holy shit. Linda P. Jones would be very against that.
00:37:37
She would not like, that's not what wealth heiresses do. No, it's not. Hell no. Okay, so around the same time in 1968, John and Joan's marriage is on the rocks.
00:37:50
Partly because of the music room. That'd be funny if Joan's like, I hate music of all kinds.
00:37:59
But also because it seems Joan feels like that the music room and the project and that whole thing is all he cares about.
00:38:09
Which isn't entirely true. Because what John also cared about was the woman he had started to have an affair with named Ann Kurth, who he had met picking up his kids at summer camp when she was picking up her kids at summer camp.
00:38:22
Guys. And they had a cheaters meet cute at summer camp parking lot in August of 1968.
00:38:29
Control your fucking urges, people. I mean, if he can't control his music man cave urge, then he's just doing it.
00:38:37
That's true. That fall, Joan goes away for a horse riding competition. And when she comes back, she finds a note from John saying he's left because things are, quote, not good between us.
00:38:48
So you get to decide that, motherfucker? Yeah, that's all on him. Oh, also, it was on a notepad with music notes at the time.
00:38:57
Sorry. I just saw it in my mind's eye. And here's a note in quotes from John. Oh, my God.
00:39:05
or the o is a fucking what's a what's a note some kind of a quarter note maybe quarter half
00:39:12
those are the only two kind of notes i know great at least you knew one i played cello and i didn't
00:39:18
even know what did you get an actual song out on that cello could you could you play a song yeah
00:39:24
you know like it was like that but it sounded like kind of sounded like a song that's a hard instrument for how are you you were eight i was like eight and probably
00:39:38
like severely underweight so like a teeny tiny person okay sorry it's not about me it is though um okay so uh so basically joan calls john's office
00:39:54
to say where is he like i'm trying to figure out like we at least have to talk about it
00:39:58
he's not there. So her father, Ash, suggests hiring a detective to track him down,
00:40:05
but Joan doesn't do that. Yeah, fuck him. Two weeks later, John contacts Joan again,
00:40:10
again after the music note. He has to meet up with her, and then he tells her about the affair that he has,
00:40:15
saying that he's been staying with Anne. So this woman, his mistress, he's basically been at her house the whole time.
00:40:21
What a dick. Yeah. So in November of 1968, John serves Joan with divorce papers.
00:40:27
but both and i had to read this sentence like three times both joan and ash still want the
00:40:33
marriage to work okay the wife and her father yeah really want the marriage to work because
00:40:40
it'll tarnish your reputation probably right but also yeah no it doesn't work yeah if your dad has
00:40:46
that much of an opinion yeah then you're part of the problem right like you have to admit yeah
00:40:51
there's a reason this guy wants to get away um and also just it has to be the two people in the
00:40:56
marriage that wanted to work the most. That's the best case scenario. Yeah, that's what you should
00:41:00
be aiming for. Right. I mean, Dad, thanks for the support. Please get out of the marriage.
00:41:05
Okay, so in early December 1968, Ash asks to meet with John Hill. And at the meeting, he says that
00:41:11
if John doesn't make the marriage work, that'll come after him and force him to repay all the
00:41:16
money that John still owes him. So John withdraws the divorce petition, returns to Joan, and the two
00:41:24
makeup just before Christmas that year. How awkward would that be? Hey, your dad told me that
00:41:30
I'd owe him money if I didn't love you anymore. Yeah, your dad said I can't leave. So I'm back.
00:41:36
Great. Merry Christmas. Let's put your sweater on. Put your matching sweater on. Let's do this.
00:41:41
Horrifying. Horrifying. Okay, so and the height of romance. Yeah. Of course, Anne Kurth comes back
00:41:47
into the picture. And she basically tells John, it's her or me. But despite that, John, what John
00:41:54
does is he stays with Joan but he keeps a separate apartment Of course And like and him and he basically just keeps the place that they were staying in Shocking Absolutely No one Yeah Right Right
00:42:05
So then John, Joan, I wish their names weren't Joan and John. It's making it harder than it needs to be.
00:42:11
They're really fucking with you. So Joan notices John's been spending a lot of evenings away and she finally calls him
00:42:17
out on it. It starts a fight. and the next day as john's taking their son to get a haircut um he stops by the apartment to pick
00:42:27
up a couple things and brings the son with him come on right so then of course their son tells
00:42:33
his mother yeah yeah dad still has a secret apartment or whatever you know i'm five and
00:42:38
dad's got this mistress i know you're gonna be upset so i'm gonna be the one that stays calm
00:42:42
dad's still got that apartment no no no daddy's still got that daddy daddy um Of course, Jones, livid and sadly surprised.
00:42:54
So in early March of 1969, the Hills have house guests over. They're friends of Jones named Diane Sedegast, and then a second woman named Eunice Woolen, who is not listed as Jones' friend.
00:43:09
So who knows why Eunice is there? What are you doing there, Eunice? Eunice, it feels like you're there to judge people, but maybe that's just because of your name.
00:43:16
Eunice Woolen. So Diane and Eunice notice that John keeps getting called away by a pager.
00:43:24
Wait, in the 60s? It's 1969. What kind of a pager? Is it huge, size of the room?
00:43:29
It's, yeah, it's basically that it's what the pants he's wearing are the pager. It's full body pager.
00:43:36
Got it. I don't know. I guess doctors have always had them. Paging is probably a phone call.
00:43:41
Yeah. That's probably what it means. You're being paged on a paging service. That's what it is.
00:43:46
That would make way more sense. Though, if you have pictures of old-fashioned pagers that are really big, we'd love to see them.
00:43:51
Absolutely. So, he keeps getting called away, being paged away. And then, when he comes back, he comes back in the evening, and he always brings pastries.
00:44:05
But he's very specific about how he hands these pastries out. What the fuck? So, he gives them out.
00:44:11
I brought these amazing. Does anybody want them? You should have them. You should have this.
00:44:14
You should have this. No, no, no. Don't switch. Don't switch. You eat that one. I want the cheese danish.
00:44:19
Nope. Nope. Sorry, Eunice, but you weren't even really invited here. We don't know whose friend you are.
00:44:24
Yeah. You don't get the cheese danish. Damn it. So he's very controlling and specific about these pastries.
00:44:30
Okay. On March 14th, 1969, during the stay with Diane and Eunice, Joan invites a fourth woman over.
00:44:40
Her name is Van Maxwell, and they all want to play bridge. so she invites van over to the house and the four get play a game of bridge on one end of the music
00:44:48
room while john sits listening to music on the other end and it's super awkward and it weirds
00:44:54
all the women out isn't it weird like when you're having like girlfriends over and then the husband
00:44:59
comes home or you're at your friend's house and then it's like no it's fine he's he's cool with
00:45:02
it yeah like i don't want to be here anymore right i know he's in the bedroom but like this is creepy
00:45:06
well yeah because it doesn't then it just feels like there's someone waiting for you to leave
00:45:10
Totally. And which is we've all done that. We're just like the countdown begins. I can't wait to have my house back. Yeah. Yeah. So and and maybe they were just trying to make the most of this insanely expensive music room. I don't know. OK. But the but all those women had felt and sensed the super weirdness. OK. Joan dishes to Van about the fights that she's been having with John. And she tells Van that she's going to get a lawyer and cut him out of her will.
00:45:40
And towards the end of the evening, John puts on a romantic record and then walks over and stands behind his wife's chair.
00:45:47
Ew. And so then Diane suggests that they dance together, which they do. Ew. And then before everyone goes to bed at the end of the evening.
00:45:55
Now watch this weird couple dance. Apparently. Very presentationally. So then the next morning, March 15th, 1969, Joan, or not morning, it's the afternoon.
00:46:05
Joan wakes up really late in the afternoon. And she tells her friends. so like she has friends there and she doesn't wake up until later not good and she says john
00:46:14
gave her some pill that must have knocked her out because she like couldn't come she couldn't wake
00:46:19
up but she says that the night before john had made her quote very happy and that things um he
00:46:26
had said things to her he she'd never heard him say before and she said she feels like they're
00:46:31
gonna be fine uh fuck you yeah feeling i'm getting that presentation feeling yeah some people like to
00:46:38
I'm getting that poison feeling. So the next day, Joan gets sick. She vomits like after breakfast, can't stop vomiting.
00:46:48
So she spends all the day in bed and John tends to her, brings her medicine. She stays upstairs while John like basically entertains the guests.
00:47:00
On Monday, March 17th, Diane and Eunice and their visit. Did I say Eunice before?
00:47:05
It's Eunice or Eunice. Eunice. Okay. Eunice Woolen. So they leave because it's like Monday, like the trip's over.
00:47:13
But Joan's still up in bed and sick when they leave. So John tells their housemaid Effie Green that Joan is not to be disturbed while she's recovering from her illness.
00:47:24
Now, are you familiar with the film Reversal of Fortune? No. Okay. That's the story of Sonny and Klaus von Bulow and the very mysterious way that Sonny von Bulow died.
00:47:35
And it is it's like exact replica of this story in this part, which I'm blown away by.
00:47:43
Which is what? It's the fact that there's somebody that's sick in bed and the husband says, leave her alone, leave her by herself.
00:47:51
I mean, it seems like a understandable if it's not out of the question if the person's not murdering that like don't.
00:48:00
She wants to be left alone. Sure. Yeah. She's sick and wants to be left alone. Yeah.
00:48:04
But this is day two of this sickness where it's almost like food poisoning. Yeah.
00:48:10
There's a ton of vomiting. Yeah. Well, and the other thing, in Reversal of Fortune, which if you haven't seen that movie, it's great.
00:48:17
Glenn Close, Jeremy Irons. It's nuts. And it's a true story. It's true crime. It's one of my favorite movies.
00:48:24
Doing it. Okay. So the next day, March 18th, Effie disobeys John's orders. And when he leaves for work for that day, she goes upstairs to check on Joan.
00:48:33
And she finds Joan lying in a feces soaked nightgap. So, yeah. And she's been sitting in her own filth for a while.
00:48:42
Oh, my God. So Effie helps her to the bathroom to clean herself up to get some fresh clothes.
00:48:46
But while they're in there and while Effie's changing her, she notices that Joan's face starts to turn blue.
00:48:54
So she calls Joan's parents and John, but nobody answers. No one's home. So then the mother, Rhea, just drops by.
00:49:02
She doesn't even know that Joan is sick. She's just dropping by to say hi from up the street.
00:49:06
She sees Joan in the condition that she's in. And John, while Rhea is freaking out about her daughter, John comes home from work.
00:49:16
So they decide that they need to take Joan to the hospital, that it's gotten that bad.
00:49:21
So instead of calling an ambulance, John insists upon driving her himself. And instead of going to the one of the bigger, more well-respected hospitals in the area,
00:49:31
he takes her on a 45-minute drive to Sharpstown General, which is a new hospital that they built,
00:49:37
obviously, 45 minutes away with no ER and no ICU. What the fuck, John? Yeah. That's cool.
00:49:43
Well, and he would know, right? Because he's the doctor and the plastic surgeon.
00:49:46
So he knows exactly what hospitals are set up for what. Totally. And how insane would that be where he's like, I insist upon taking her, and then later on you find out that she just drove away and drove far away.
00:49:59
Wow. So crazy. Idiot. So at the hospital when she finally gets there, her condition quickly worsens.
00:50:04
The doctor switches from thinking that she has the flu to thinking she's in septic shock.
00:50:09
Six hours after checking into the hospital, her kidneys fail. They don't have a dialysis machine.
00:50:14
Because it's the shittier hospital. um jones too sick to transport to a different hospital they decide to begin peritonal
00:50:23
or peritoneal dialysis um they need john's permission to perform it and because she's not conscious um he had gone back home and so the doctor calls the house at
00:50:37
9 15 p.m and tells him to come back to the hospital john leaves right away quote unquote
00:50:43
but doesn't arrive to the hospital until 11 p.m. What the fuck? What a dick. So by 1230, March 19, 1969, they have Joan stabilized,
00:50:54
but she isn't improving, and then her heart fails, and at 2.30 in the morning she dies of this sickness.
00:51:01
Awful. So Texas state law at the time says that anyone who dies within 24 hours of being admitted to a hospital has to undergo an autopsy
00:51:09
before being embalmed or buried. That's a good rule. It is a good rule, but John has Joan taken to a funeral home before anyone has a chance to perform an autopsy within four hours of her death.
00:51:20
No, dude. He rushes that body over to the funeral home. Then she's embalmed within an hour of arriving at the funeral home.
00:51:29
He fast-tracked it. So then a doctor shows up at the funeral home to do the autopsy anyway.
00:51:34
and he notices there's maroon discoloration on her pancreas and he determines she died from pancreatitis.
00:51:45
Ash gets other doctors' opinions. They all say it's an unlikely cause of death, especially for what she had gone through.
00:51:52
On the morning of her funeral, March 21st, 1969, Ash goes to the assistant DA and his name's I.D. McMaster
00:52:00
and he accuses John Hill of killing his daughter. so another doctor comes to perform a second autopsy right before jones burial and he determines the
00:52:11
cause of death to be acute local hepatitis which was probably viral but when mcmaster reads this
00:52:17
report he tells ash there's no cause um that ash doesn't give up he goes to yet another da and
00:52:24
petitions john to exhume jones body for a third autopsy but of course john refuses um
00:52:32
so ash calls on a doctor from new york to help and because harris county grand jury is also
00:52:38
investigating jones death because it's all so suspicious and because ash robinson has juice i
00:52:44
mean like he these are all the people that like it's rich people and that's all those connections
00:52:48
where he's like i'm not letting it go and that means you're not letting it go um so a third
00:52:53
autopsy is granted and this time a far more thorough examination is done of the body and
00:52:59
they determined there was a massive infection but they can't determine the source they do however
00:53:03
conclude that john had gotten joan if john had gotten joan to the doctor quicker she would have
00:53:09
lived fuck so three months after joan's death john hill marries anne kirk in june of 1969
00:53:20
three months so now ash robinson is convinced that john hill murdered his daughter and um
00:53:28
the marriage between John and Ann Kurth lasts less than a year. Yeah. So then in April of 1970,
00:53:36
a grand jury votes to indict John Hill on murder by omission, which means his lack of action led to Joan's death.
00:53:43
Right. That's the only one they can prove. Yeah. But they know that happened. Cool.
00:53:47
So his trial begins on February 15th, 1971. Ann Kurth, they call her to testify against John.
00:53:55
But she goes totally rogue on the stand And instead of just answering the questions that the guys the prosecutors asking her on the stand she claims John had tried to kill her on June 30th 1969 by crashing the car into a bridge and then injecting her with a hypodermic syringe
00:54:12
She also says that John confessed to her that he killed Joan by lacing her pastries with infectious bacteria and injecting her with the bacteria as well.
00:54:23
Holy shit. But this, they're like, boom, that it's like the judge is going, what?
00:54:29
No, you know, order, order. Exactly. People go fucking berserk and they declare a mistrial because she says all this stuff
00:54:36
on the stand. Why? Did he really do that? Because it's hearsay. That's fucking diabolical.
00:54:42
It is so disgusting. And it's like, I hate it. I'm not using this word right. It's smart because you're not poisoning them.
00:54:49
Exactly. It's not traceable. It clearly reflects that a doctor was doing the murdering because a doctor knows what it looks like when someone dies in non-suspicious circumstances.
00:55:01
And that was, but that's the funny thing about the psychopath or the sociopath when they think they're smarter than everybody.
00:55:08
And they don't think it's weird that they go, no, you eat the cheese Danish. Yeah.
00:55:11
Of course. Like, no, I don't want an autopsy. Eunice Woolen is like, I'm going to write that in at the top of my diary entry tonight.
00:55:18
Totally. You lunatic. because you don't get subtleties. Yeah. Okay. So they schedule a second trial for November of 1972
00:55:28
because it's like order in the court. Let's start over. Clear the court. Everybody erase your memory.
00:55:34
But a few weeks before the second trial is set to start on September 24th, 1972,
00:55:41
a masked intruder breaks into John Hill's home and shoots him dead. Wait. Okay. Hold up now.
00:55:48
So he got sent home in between trials. Yes. And so someone came in and fucking killed him.
00:55:54
And his name is Ash. A masked robber. A masked robber. I'm doing air quotes at Georgia right now.
00:55:59
A masked robber came in and shot him to death. In April of 1973, that gunman is finally identified as Bobby Wayne Vandiver.
00:56:08
And he's arrested. Okay. So eventually, Vandiver tells police that he was paid $5,000 to kill John Hill.
00:56:16
and he implicates two people. Their names are Marsha McKittrick and Lillia Paulus.
00:56:21
And he says they're the accomplices. Vandiver's indicted for murder and his trial is set for September of 1973.
00:56:31
And then it's rescheduled to April of 1974, but he doesn't show up for it. Instead, he just up and moves to Longview, Texas.
00:56:41
Why aren't these people in fucking jail while they're awaiting trial? I don't know.
00:56:44
they must have posted bail i think it's because they're rich yeah and so that's the rich people
00:56:50
do not wait in jail during trial they get to go home they are their fancy lawyers argue for them
00:56:55
and get them out on bail bullshit well this guy jumps bail moves out of town he's living in an
00:57:02
alias under an alias in longview texas um and when police officer longview police officer john
00:57:10
ramer finds him vandiver pulls his gun on the police officer and ramer shoots first and kills
00:57:17
vandiver so the the police officer killed the guy the murderer basically the the gunman the hired
00:57:24
gunman yeah is now murdered by a police officer okay um marcia mckittrick the getaway driver
00:57:31
vandiver's getaway driver is convicted in 1974 she's sentenced to 10 years she's paroled after
00:57:37
five. And then Paulus, Lilia Paulus, the other accomplice, is convicted and given 35 years and
00:57:45
she dies in prison of breast cancer in 1986. And everybody basically in Texas knows for a fact
00:57:53
that Ash Robinson is the man who hired Vandiver to kill Dr. John Hill, but they cannot prove it
00:58:01
and everybody around it is dead. Wow. They could never prove it? No. Oh, because the one guy's dead.
00:58:08
He can't testify against him. Exactly. He can't spill the beans. There aren't basically the surrounding people.
00:58:15
Yeah, there's no trail. No, there's no one else. He didn't write a check, memo, went dead, ex-son-in-law.
00:58:22
No, there's no more pastries to be handed out. So basically it's just kind of like this got taken care of.
00:58:30
And I'm sure a lot of people, even if they knew the details, Dr. John Hill is absolutely a creep villain in this story.
00:58:39
And there's lots, there's so many good articles about how creepy he was. There's all these like stories about how creepy he was.
00:58:47
I can't wait to see a photo of these people. Well, yes, they look like classic 50s people.
00:58:51
Like he looks almost like Rod Serling, plain, good looking, standard doctor in the 50s.
00:58:57
Well dressed. And she looks like, she looks like, she looks like a, she looks almost like Sandra, Sandra Day O'Connor.
00:59:06
She looks like, what are you trying to say? Doris Day. Doris Day. She looks like Doris Day, but younger and like a little more platinum bond.
00:59:14
We'll put photos up on our Instagram. There have been several books written about this story.
00:59:19
Thomas Thompson wrote a book in 1976 called Blood and Money. But there was also a 1981 made for TV movie.
00:59:25
and these are the pictures you have to see 81 81 prime time fair faucet plays joan yes and sam
00:59:36
elliott with no mustache oh my god young sam elliott young sam elliott with no mustache plays
00:59:42
dr hill i can't picture him and andy griffith plays ash robinson yes i love it who plays the um
00:59:49
the mistress. Eunice Woolen? Yeah. What if Eunice played the mistress in the made movie The real woman played the No those are the only three I know but I did when I was prepping this for Jay was sending me all these pictures from that
01:00:07
Yes, look. Oh, yeah. Doesn't Farrah Fawcett look like Sharon Stone in that picture?
01:00:11
Oh, my God. Gorgeous. Oh, look at Sam Shepard. He's so cute. No, Sam Elliott. That's what I meant.
01:00:19
Sam Shepard is the doctor who murdered his family. Yes. Great. There was also Sam Shepard, the playwright,
01:00:24
who's a great actor. That's totally what I meant. Yes. We'll put it up on my favorite murder Instagram.
01:00:28
Also, I just want to watch it. I couldn't find it anywhere to watch it, but I want to watch that 1981
01:00:33
retelling of the story. Someone listening, and this always happens, they're like,
01:00:38
their moms save their VHS fucking recorded coffee and they send it to us and it's the best thing
01:00:45
that's ever happened. So if you have murder in Texas from 1981 starring Farrah Fawcett
01:00:49
and Sam Elliott with no mustache, can you please send it to us? And a VCR. player so it's the vcr like how me and my sister used to have to rent a vcr if we rented video
01:01:01
that's right and that is the uh mysterious yet very obvious uh so solved um murder of
01:01:09
joan robinson hill amazing yeah all right so this one i heard about a while ago my our friend kat
01:01:18
solin told me about it and i have ever since been fascinated with it this is the murder at
01:01:23
devil's teeth what do you know that no i don't think so all right um got a bunch of info from
01:01:30
there's a website called your tango and someone named uh amy lamar just posted an article about
01:01:37
this murderpedia webs loose but weird nj weird new jersey is like the people who know the most
01:01:43
about this yes and um in 1998 they got a letter from a guy named billy martin asking about an
01:01:49
urban legend because that's kind of what they do they talk about the weird crazy cool shit
01:01:53
happening in new jersey awesome this guy is like i bet there's a lot yeah yeah this guy's like hey
01:01:58
i remember this urban legend from when i was a kid involving a dog bringing a body part home
01:02:03
to his master in springfield in the 70s what is this fucking true so they started looking into it
01:02:09
and it leads them it's jesse polack and mark moran writing death in on the devil's teeth okay
01:02:17
And it's a story about this murder. Okay. Okay. This murder and dirty jurors. That's right.
01:02:22
Okay. All right. August 7th, 1972. Here we are. 16-year-old Jeanette De Palma was about to enter her junior year of high school in Springfield, New Jersey.
01:02:34
On that day, August 7th, she tells her mother she was planning to take the train to a friend's house.
01:02:39
She never arrives. Classic fucking story. We've heard it a million times. It sucks.
01:02:43
when she fails to return home that evening her parents file a missing persons report
01:02:47
and um oh by the way this is this takes place 10 months and one town over from the list
01:02:54
family family side case 10 months after 10 months after like same area and a town over yeah so it's
01:03:01
like time and place here we are should we talk about the cherry hill mall just real quick
01:03:06
should we talk about it and how it's not in philadelphia we don't talk about the cherry
01:03:11
hill mall talk about the cherry hill mall anymore you know that karen wow okay so this is there's a
01:03:17
there's a real devil power center happening already that's right so she goes missing um
01:03:23
and six weeks later on september 19th 1972 a dog brings its owner a fucking human forearm
01:03:31
with the hand attached so that it was not an urban legend no oh bad bad boy oh you traumatized
01:03:40
me for years. I will never, whatever song is playing right now, I'll never be able to hear it.
01:03:44
Yeah, that's right. Just yelling at this dog. Down on the corner, down on the street.
01:03:49
Did I, sorry, sidebar. No, God. Did I ever tell you about that? My dad had to get a job at my Uncle Steve's pizza place when he,
01:03:55
no, when he first was married and my sister, I think I was just born and my sister was two or
01:04:02
whatever. And he was first, I think in the fire department, maybe hadn't gotten in yet. And my
01:04:08
uncle Steve had just bought a Shakey's pizza. And so my dad just worked there and like, sure,
01:04:13
I'll do it. And he said he worked there. It was really hard. Like, it was just a really standard
01:04:19
job. And he was worried about money all the time. And it was just kind of like making pizzas. And he
01:04:25
worked with this like young stoner kid who played Creedence Clearwater Revival nonstop. And my dad
01:04:31
literally can't have it on the radio. Like if you're in the car, and it comes on, he has to
01:04:35
turn it immediately any credence has destroyed my dad it like it puts him back to the time where
01:04:40
he thought there was no hope no future oh god that's so sad i know it's not funny same thing
01:04:45
but i was i had a roommate who would just play um moon dance on the guitar it's a fabulous night or was something else yeah moonshadow yes i'm being followed
01:04:58
it makes me think of the sad time in my life when i was 27 and was like what am i gonna do
01:05:04
it's $600 is too much for rent a month. I don't know how I'm going to pay this. I hate my roommate.
01:05:10
She's a cokehead. Okay. What? Here's the thing. If you like a song and something bad starts happening,
01:05:17
turn that, turn it off really quick. Make sure. Protect your assets. So where were we?
01:05:25
Human forearm and hand. Horrifying. It's brought. Yes. This, of course, leads to the discovery of Jeanette's remains.
01:05:31
Oh, I know. Poor sweet. She's like so beautiful too. We'll post a photo. She's just like, not that it fucking makes a difference, but, you know, she's this beautiful, lovely, normal 16 year old.
01:05:40
And sorry, who did the dog bring it? The arm to his owner. What was it? It wasn't a child.
01:05:46
No, there was like an apartment building right behind where she was found in the woods.
01:05:50
And the dog was like doing dog 1972 dog stuff, which is like, go in the woods. Comes back to his owner apartment Oh just everybody Everything Okay So they lead the least discovery of Jeanette remains It high on a cliff inside of Springfield abandoned
01:06:08
It's a Hodeo quarry. So it's a quarry. It's like a, what is that? Like a foresty ravine type of situation.
01:06:14
Yeah. And the quarry usually is like a big dugout thing that sometimes has water in it.
01:06:19
If like the, if they've, if they're not using it anymore, but like, you know, or, or just
01:06:23
a big gravel pit. basically they've dug out for rocks. Great. It's abandoned. There's cliffs. It's outdoorsy.
01:06:31
The cliff, there's very few indoor quarries that I know of. But again, you remember what I did about the Cherry
01:06:38
Hill Mall. It's wild. It's wild. It's wild and wild. And the cliff is named Devil's Teeth
01:06:46
because the jagged rocks surround it. So it's like way up high and there's these jagged rocks.
01:06:52
From what it sounds like teenagers would hang out there hell yeah and drink and shit but i'm not totally sure there's not like a there's
01:06:58
not a ton of confirmed information about this one okay um so i'm gonna just uh speculate we'll
01:07:05
speculate the way we do you know so the spot where janet is found it's so hard to reach that uh to
01:07:11
retrieve her body the police had to call on a fire truck with a ladder to get her down her autopsy
01:07:17
doesn't reveal a cause of death because of decomposition but there's no signs of trauma
01:07:23
The coroner didn't find any trace of alcohol or drugs in her body. But the toxicology report did show an unusually high level of lead, which is never fucking explained and super weird.
01:07:34
Oh. And I'll tell you later about how I looked into that. Okay. Her body is fully clothed.
01:07:39
And when it was found and the coroner ruled her cause of death as unknown, but suggested strangulation as a possibility.
01:07:46
I think that's what he suspected. early in the investigation the springfield police department there's like a tip regarding a homeless
01:07:53
man living in the woods nearby a man known as red but he's quickly eliminated as a suspect
01:07:58
and basically it sounds like he was the only person who really seemed like a suspect
01:08:02
so this is when rumors begin to spread in town and you know how fucking towns like to spread
01:08:10
rumors hell yeah talk that's like what they do it's what they're for and it's 1972 so guess
01:08:15
what those rumors are about the occult would mac oh sorry you're right the occult
01:08:23
that's just a small subset of the occult um so so rumors begin to spread that jeanette's body
01:08:31
is laid out in a way that suggests satan-y shit which is like dude in the 70s and then especially
01:08:37
the 80s it's ramping up to fucking satanic panic yes and these you know it's these it's these
01:08:43
towns where people are super religious that's like what their fucking lives revolve around is
01:08:49
church and the community and the idea of satan and the occult and and like satanic rituals are
01:08:55
fucking a real threat to them constant in their mind it's a real fucking threat yeah which we all
01:09:01
know isn't really a thing right and oftentimes if there is anything satanic where actual satanists
01:09:07
are very peace loving right and not really about that and the people that are doing that are usually
01:09:12
drug drug addled teens that are just using that symbolically to like scare each other and
01:09:18
themselves exactly yeah so they they think that this is real they say the rumor spreads that um
01:09:25
there's a bunch of different accounts but including that she was found on a makeshift altar
01:09:29
with a halo of stones around her head um anonymous person wrote into weird nj.com or
01:09:36
website claiming that there was arrows carved into trees leading to her body and she was surrounded by dead sacrificed animals and other ritualistic bullshit.
01:09:48
And the most common argument is that she was found surrounded by logs like place to be like to look like a coffin around her.
01:09:58
and then like someone put sticks in crosses like all around her almost like setting it up to make
01:10:05
it look like it was satanists which is exactly what someone who isn't a satanist would do yes
01:10:12
it's basically freak out about this thing right and get really scared around it look over here
01:10:17
look over here look over here and then i'll just go back over to this store that i work in right
01:10:21
act normal and then you won't be looking for a normal person because you're looking for
01:10:25
yeah a satanic cult and hey who started those rumors like was it you it might have been you
01:10:30
right all right well we'll get to that gossip the real devil after school special like karen
01:10:36
um okay because it was the 70s and people back then left nothing more than to believe in satan
01:10:42
these occult rumors spread like fucking wildfire fire and soon the media fucking picks up on it
01:10:47
and of course they're like acknowledging it saying this is what people think this is what
01:10:52
happen and saying it's true um and the de palmas so her family were born again evangelical
01:10:59
pentecostal christians i don't know if all those three things are the same they're different they
01:11:05
it's again subsets where the pentecostals are some of the most intense versions of christianity
01:11:11
great so they're pentecostals yes which is weird in this like suburban mostly uh italian catholic
01:11:17
people. And they're born again. So they're like, yes, let's do that. They're like, I believe that there are extreme sects of Pentecostal sect, C-C-S-E-C-T-S.
01:11:30
Those are the snake handlers. Well, yeah. And they're speaking in tongues and shit.
01:11:35
That's right. So they were, okay. So there was a pastor there named the pastor of that congregation named James Tate.
01:11:43
And he was totally fire and brimstone dude. And like, you know, he put on these like sermons that were like fucking exciting.
01:11:50
And you're going to go to hell with the devil or whatever the fuck. And then a handful of glitter.
01:11:58
Confetti. He just emptied out the three. Whole punch. It's not going to be this fun.
01:12:04
It's not going to be this cool. You'll get a piece of glitter in your eye, and it'll stick there.
01:12:09
Have you ever had, like, a card full of glitter, and then you have glitter on your stuff?
01:12:13
Yeah, and you're like, I get what you were thinking, but this is obnoxious. Yeah, that's a living hell, and that's what you're entering into.
01:12:19
That's Satan. Satan is a fucking envelope full of glitter. I tell you about the time my sister sneezed.
01:12:27
She sneezed, and she sneezed glitter. No. She's a grammar school teacher. Oh, my God.
01:12:33
That's amazing. As an ex-raver, I appreciate that. And respect it. Respect your sister.
01:12:40
Okay. So there were evangelical Pentecostal people. And Jeanette's parents were super into it.
01:12:49
Jeanette attended services with her parents regularly and was involved in the youth group.
01:12:53
So there's this thing about her that it's like half the people are like she was a wild child.
01:12:58
she was like rebellious and crazy and the other half are like she was really religious and going
01:13:03
to church and what it sounds like is she had been kind of a partier and smoked pot and all this shit
01:13:08
and then um right before her her murder had started to go to church and kind of get over that phase of
01:13:16
her life so um but it doesn't sound like she was ever really like a like a bad girl in any way she
01:13:22
was just hanging out listening to Led Zeppelin and smoking pot like everyone in the fucking 70s did
01:13:26
Yes. And I think the, because it could have been simultaneous where she was, because her family was very religious. That's usually how it happens. And that's what you're rebelling against. It's like, if you're in a, like a born again Christian type of family, whatever, it gets real, real strict and narrow. And so there could have been, however it happened, timeline wise, those things go together. Rebellion and hardcore, you know, like button down religion.
01:13:53
It just sounded like she was a normal teenage girl at that age and area. And so the pastor and the parents helped fuel the satanic fucking panic in town.
01:14:07
Yes. Pastor James Tate is quoted in papers from back then describing Jeanette as, quote, extremely religious and a very devout parishioner.
01:14:16
he goes on to say that he believes a group worshiped the devil in the woods where janette
01:14:20
was found and janette may have tried to quote lecture them about jesus he says quote i'm sure
01:14:26
janette herself was not involved in anything like that but i know that many of the other young people
01:14:32
in the area are involved like how do you no one's telling you about their fucking satanism dude it's
01:14:37
this kind of thing that's just like it's just others and i and no tolerance for other people
01:14:43
no tolerance for the struggles that other people are going through and also no tolerance for kids
01:14:48
and right and teenagers of your own community so it's basically saying let's source out the the
01:14:54
anybody weird from right here and if they're young and they can't defend themselves or they
01:15:00
you know if they do go out in the woods because their parents aren't around or whatever they're
01:15:04
satan like let's get the weakest of our community and just load all this on but it's also a warning
01:15:09
to all the fucking parishioners, the kids, the people in the congregation saying, if you walk
01:15:14
out of this fucking church, if you don't stay in here, if you don't give us the money we're asking
01:15:19
for, if you don't pray as much as we're telling you to, you're going to become like these other
01:15:23
people. So you better fucking stay here. Right. And meanwhile, we all know, and we've heard so
01:15:30
many of these stories that it's like, it's never, it's never that. No. And you're basically
01:15:35
misdirecting like the entire community's mindset about something that is a murder that needs to get
01:15:42
solved factually exactly and you know there's probably law enforcement on the in this who are
01:15:49
in that church sure you know absolutely so they believe all that okay so um he says uh these kids
01:15:56
tell us that that when they are on drugs they are in the control of satan they did things they didn't
01:16:03
want to do because of the power of the of evil, which I'm sorry, I just fucking saw my popcorn
01:16:09
ceiling moving around when I was on drugs. I didn't see Satan. I mean, I've been filled with
01:16:13
the devil since day one. But that's on me. I mean, I realized that it's kind of fun. It's it's always
01:16:19
felt like a little bit of a tickle. That's right. The article went on to say that both Jeanette and
01:16:24
her older sister had drug problems, which were quote, solved a few years before when the entire
01:16:29
family converted to the Church of God. So they were like these rebellious kids. And they were
01:16:33
like, we're going to help you. So this pastor ran an evangelical outreach program that ministered to
01:16:39
adolescent substance abusers. He did it. I know, right? For real? I think so. Get out of there. Okay. How does he know how to help substance abusers? That's right. That's not
01:16:52
his area of expertise. And it's possible that Jeanette worked on that with him. So like,
01:16:57
she might have been involved in that. So he claimed that, quote, Jeanette may have been a
01:17:01
symbol of Christ to these devil worshippers. And that's why they killed her. Meaning she fucking happened upon them and they were like smoking pot and she was like,
01:17:09
Jesus loves you. And then they killed her because of that. That's not a thing. It doesn't happen.
01:17:14
No one needs conjecture at this point. Sorry, New Jersey. It's not that fucking, it's not that.
01:17:21
Careful. Let's not mess with the state of New Jersey. I'm talking about New Jersey 1970.
01:17:25
I'm not talking about it now. It's a great place to live. Those people can't fight us.
01:17:28
Great. later when he's interviewed for this book that I told you about death on the devil's teeth he
01:17:35
changes his whole fucking story and says that she was definitely involved with some occult things
01:17:39
it's so strange that she wanted to be involved with that especially when her family was getting
01:17:42
so involved with the lord which her sister say isn't true she wasn't her sister's like she had
01:17:47
no fucking occult books she didn't have devil worship bullshit wasn't a thing no so um the
01:17:53
Tate son who now a pastor as well goes on to say that they dated as teens right before she disappeared He said we dated for several months I cared deeply for her She was an awesome young lady
01:18:05
She broke up with me because we could not see each other enough. I was sad about breaking up and holding out hope that she would return and
01:18:11
maybe we could get the relationship going again, but it was not to be, she was missing for six weeks and then her remains were discovered.
01:18:18
So meaning he's saying like they were breaking up while she disappeared. Like, come on,
01:18:23
cops. Can we look into that? A little bit. Yeah. They're all still alive, so I'm not going to say their names.
01:18:27
That's a good idea. So, Jeanette's parents were insanely religious and believed the Satan angle.
01:18:34
Mrs. De Palma told a reporter that Jeanette may have met her death by persons possessed by the devil.
01:18:38
So, of course, the fucking town goes ape shit. Yeah. Right? And everyone's losing their mind over it.
01:18:45
Some have accused her church of having something to do with this whole thing like we've been talking about.
01:18:51
and they're saying that the pastor's like fervor around the Satan thing is just a distraction.
01:18:59
The weird thing that's not mentioned in some of these articles about the story is that
01:19:03
nine days after Jeanette disappeared, another young woman went missing nearby. 24-year-old Joan Kramer, she was a graduate student at Columbia when she was last seen
01:19:14
August 15, 1972, hitchhiking home after she had stormed off after a fight with her fiance,
01:19:22
which just is fucking heartbreaking. She walked about a mile and then called a girlfriend about
01:19:27
midnight to say she was going to get a taxi to take her home. But witnesses say they saw a man
01:19:32
drive up in a car and ask her if she needed a ride. I mean, it was the 70s. Like everyone fucking
01:19:37
did that. Yeah. She was missing for 13 days when two teens found her body lying face down in a
01:19:44
secluded wooded area along the Elizabeth River, five miles from her home and six miles from where
01:19:50
Jeanette's body was found. Wow. And that was nine days later. Okay, they didn't connect the two.
01:19:58
An autopsy indicated that she had been strangled, which is what they thought had happened to Jeanette.
01:20:03
And there were other similarities. They were both, you know, beautiful brunette parted on the middle
01:20:08
hair which is like 70s normal um both ought to be strangled and and both ladies had been missing
01:20:14
their necklaces oh yeah trophy uh-huh so for um for the murder of joan the second joan kramer a disgraced and drunken is how he's described a disgraced and drunken
01:20:29
accountant yes how he's described the only people i want to party that's right his name was otto
01:20:35
nilsen um he had a long history of mental instability and domestic violence he's identified
01:20:40
as the person who picked up joan kramer that night only because detect detectives are like
01:20:46
hey he looks like the composite sketch oh let's follow him let's arrest him let's bring him to
01:20:51
trial yes no oh no shit i didn't know it's not helpful no it's not good because he's not he
01:21:00
didn't pick her up that night? Well, you can't just base it on the composites. The Gatch,
01:21:04
and he looks like it. Oh, okay. But oh, they're saying he's the one that picked her up purely
01:21:09
because he looks like it. Okay, I'm sorry. Yes. No, I must have done. I probably didn't say that.
01:21:13
Well, basically, you look like this picture. You are the person that did this. Right. And you have
01:21:18
some, you know, you have a history of mental instability. Domestic violence. Domestic violence.
01:21:23
Great. This is our guy. Let's get him and let's make the town stop worrying about this murder on
01:21:28
the loose and pin it on this guy exactly so um he's uh it's like great great i need this thing
01:21:36
solved no i'm sorry i can't help you with that okay he's arrested and tried for her murder the
01:21:41
jury's like oh sorry we're gonna need more information than that and he gets acquitted
01:21:45
oh good he's released i changed my mind now now that i understand what we're doing good
01:21:51
what kind of people now that you realize that we're in what is it 2019 not 1972 it's not 1972 um he is committed to a state psychiatric hospital in trenton
01:22:03
he stays there and dies in 1992 wow so like something was going on with him yeah um and
01:22:10
despite this crazy fervor and uh insanity surrounding the murder of janette de palma
01:22:16
it quickly goes cold the case isn't closed of course but the case files for her murder
01:22:24
are destroyed by flooding during hurricane floyd in 1999 whoa so there's no there are the files are
01:22:30
gone oh no i know and to this day people in that area won't fucking talk about it because they are
01:22:38
convinced that it's a satan a satanic ritual it's satanist it's witches um it's an occult murder so
01:22:45
they won't even talk about it because they're scared of that oh no which i think is the perfect
01:22:50
fucking cover for someone who has nothing to do with the fucking occult. Yes. And it's just a murderer.
01:22:57
Or perhaps the opposite of the occult, someone involved in a church. That's right.
01:23:01
And so, you know how I said that they found high, they found high traces of lead in her
01:23:05
body. So I went down this fucking rabbit hole of exorcisms. Is there ever lead, anything lead used in it?
01:23:11
And I couldn't find anything. Sadly. But how great would that be if I solved it?
01:23:16
Yes, exactly. But you're like, well, I'm the one that made the connection where holy water is filled with lead.
01:23:21
It's filled with lead. It's just, it's like confetti and lead. It's holy water. I mean, that would be, oh, that'd be so satisfying.
01:23:28
But that's like, you're right. It's the perfect setup where you set, you light the fuse of devil worship.
01:23:35
Yeah. Little crosses with sticks. That's all you have to do. Right. And everyone, that bomb goes off and then that's all anyone will look at.
01:23:42
And meanwhile, there's just somebody probably sitting in that town or two towns away.
01:23:46
Yeah. That's a serial killer. Right. Or could have kept on going. Well, yeah, there's so many.
01:23:52
I looked up like new because there were some other couple other murders of young girls in the area in the time And I went to a website that just scrolling and scrolling and scrolling of fucking young women in New Jersey who were murdered around that time
01:24:05
And it's like, pick any of them. And there's so many cold cases. So many cold cases.
01:24:10
And there's two serial killers that are like the torso killer. Like, it's just fucked up.
01:24:16
Yeah. Yeah, there's so much of it. Which is why I'm drinking canned wine. Yeah. It makes life easier.
01:24:22
It really does. And that's the devil's teeth murder, a.k.a. the murder of Jeanette De Palma.
01:24:28
Wow. Fucking great. So Kat Solon, who is our friend, wanted to make a whole like true crime puppet show.
01:24:34
Yeah. And have that be like a serious one and have that be the first case. And she told me about it.
01:24:39
And I was like, oh, my God, this is insane. I remember that she was talking about that because she does these amazing stop motion and puppet show.
01:24:48
She's such an incredible artist. Yeah, that would be so cool. Wouldn't that be cool?
01:24:52
Yeah. Yeah, her show is The Shivering Truth on Adult Swim. If you want to check it out, it's fucking awesome.
01:24:56
Amazing. You won't believe what she made. That's crazy. With Vernon Chapman. Yeah.
01:25:01
So talented. Who is one of the creators of Wondershowsen. If you ever loved Wondershowsen, which you better have.
01:25:07
I fucking love it. And you know Vernon, he's one of the first stand-up comics I ever met.
01:25:12
Really? Yeah. I did a competition with him in Citrus Heights like three months after I started stand-up comedy in 1990.
01:25:19
Is it weird that I know Citrus Heights only because of Michelle McNamara's book?
01:25:23
No, it's not. Golden State Killer. It's one of the reasons I hate Sacramento so much.
01:25:28
Because of the Golden State Killer? Yes, I resent his crimes. That's fair. I took it personally.
01:25:35
Okay, so we do some fucking hoorays. Let's do it. I'm not sure if I'm going to be able to put this in words correctly.
01:25:41
Because this is a different thing than the thing we talked about of saying thank you to our live show audiences.
01:25:46
and this massive five-month tour that we've been on that's just wrapping up. Our final weekend is next weekend, which is amazing.
01:25:57
But there was a moment when we were at those Dallas shows, when we were in the meet-and-greet,
01:26:03
and I had this weird moment where, and the way I tried to explain it to Georgia real-time,
01:26:08
was it suddenly felt like I caught up to what was happening real-time. And it almost made me cry because these girls walked up, women, and they started talking.
01:26:19
And it's just a thing that's to us now normal and natural. But if you stand back from it a little bit, for us, it's insane that we even do that.
01:26:29
That people want to meet us. Right. And that they get excited and then they have stuff to tell us.
01:26:33
And there's a lot of really big positive energy. But I think my way of dealing with either negative or positive energy is accepting none of it and just being like, no, all these doors are shut.
01:26:45
And I'm just going to get through this and I'll process it later on by myself. I literally talked to my new therapist about that today.
01:26:50
Yeah, because it's a lot. Dissociating. You have to dissociate when you don't understand like what this new reality is.
01:26:56
And this has been, you know, we talk about this all the time. But in this moment, it almost felt like I no longer had this fear of how overwhelming and huge these feelings are.
01:27:06
And it was like, oh, it felt so good. And I think it was a couple very young women have lately told us that they're proud of us in those.
01:27:15
And it's very genuine and it's very sweet. Yeah. And it is that feeling of like because people always walk up and go like, you don't know us, but I know you.
01:27:23
And we always say and it's hokey, but we're always like, no, we kind of know. We know you.
01:27:27
And yeah, you know, we know each other. And that's we're all this kind of we're all we're all a type of person.
01:27:33
Like we're a sensitive pay attention to to gruesome things. We know each other. We're type of person.
01:27:39
And so I just had this moment that that it felt like almost like really concentrated gratitude and appreciation and kind of like wonderment all at once where I was standing like a couple feet back.
01:27:52
and then I was like well I you're I was gonna start crying and then I'm like you will make this
01:27:58
so weird if you're the one crying in the meet and greet so I just so I had to pull down those
01:28:03
those metal uh you know what the window coverings that the businesses have on Hollywood Boulevard
01:28:09
I had to pull those down internally and just go don't cry right now because that's for them
01:28:14
they get to do that on that it says yep I'm fine yes don't look away um but it really was a very
01:28:22
cool moment because it was just like the reality of this life that we have now, which is awesome
01:28:28
and cool, but it's hard. It's hard to feel the reality of it from the inside. Yeah. We've just
01:28:32
been on go, go, go mode. Yeah. Three years. Yeah. Like we haven't had a chance yet to like,
01:28:38
to contemplate it. Right. Like I haven't had a chance to go to yoga and meditate on it. No,
01:28:43
it's been so crazy. Yeah. And that's our excuse why we haven't been doing it. That's the thing.
01:28:47
I love yoga. I love you. I'm going to be doing it any moment. You guys need me again. I love it.
01:28:52
And there's lots of people that come up and they're like, I started yoga because you guys.
01:28:55
And I'm like, I'm the worst. But whatever. I guess overall, it's just it's like another one of those gratitude moments.
01:29:03
But it was very powerful because it was like it was just that feeling of like what a great fucking thing to fall into and how how ideal it is as an experience.
01:29:12
Because it really I just love every goddamn aspect of it. Yeah. Yeah. That's beautiful.
01:29:17
Thanks. I almost don't want to. I almost want to write on yours. No, get off mine.
01:29:21
you do your own no it's like we have one horse because we had a kind of rich dad and he bought
01:29:27
us that and i'm like why share it with you we had a dad that went broke but he first bought us this
01:29:31
palomino and all red sides we have to get on it let your sister get on the horse with you
01:29:37
karen karen let your sister get on the horse let's do that no say something okay all right
01:29:44
um my what's your real one okay well my therapist died six months ago yeah and it been weird and hard and part of the the wall that i putting up around everything you just said is included in that because it like I can deal with this right now but it hits me sometimes and it big um and so two things happen one is at the Grand Ole Opry show her mom came because um her
01:30:14
niece heard me do a little dedication to her and you know realized it was her Kim that I was talking
01:30:20
about and played it for her mom. And so they drove all the way to come to the show in Nashville.
01:30:27
Yep. And I got to meet her and hug her. And it just meant so much to me. And the other thing is that
01:30:32
I was given a token of hers that actually had always meant a lot to me. It's this beautiful
01:30:40
necklace with this nice, gorgeous stone. It's a black amethyst, I think. It's beautiful.
01:30:48
Yeah. It's a really lovely necklace. And it was gifted to me last week. And it just meant it means so much to me. And I'm, I can't wait so I can process the feelings around that. But yeah, I know they're going to be heavy and hard when I do. Yeah. And it's just it's it feels meaningful that I think that I can carry on what she gave me, which is an understanding of my place in the world and what gratitude means and how to deal with it.
01:31:19
with the hugeness of life and the heaviness of, um, of being vulnerable. Yeah. And so I really appreciate that of her.
01:31:29
And, uh, yeah, that's it. That's beautiful. Well, it's true. It's like the, you know, we were talking about just before we started taping where it's just
01:31:39
like, it just never stops coming. So we think we keep thinking, or I should say, I keep imagining that you, you work really
01:31:46
hard and then you get into a safe space. And it's like, and that you, I imagine that that is all my work in therapy or in business
01:31:55
or whatever is it's buying me safety from vulnerability, safety from bad things happening,
01:32:01
safety from, but that is never gets to happen. And there's no, you can't guard against it and you can't pulling down the metal walls
01:32:10
of your emotional store. If you do that too much, they will rust shut. And as a person who felt like when I went into therapy that those walls could never come back up again for many great reasons.
01:32:24
Yeah, it's it's you what you're doing, in my opinion, watching you having to walk through this horrible thing.
01:32:31
But it feels to me like you're taking the things she wanted you to know the most and really keeping those in the forefront.
01:32:38
Yeah. As you kind of process or or, you know, not process. Right. Well, it's the thing of like when you put those metal gates down, it doesn't keep you from bad things happening. It just is that when they happen and it's say it's the end, you didn't enjoy any of it. Right. And you didn't get to experience it fully.
01:32:58
and used to and you for my the way mine work i cut myself off from relationships because i decide
01:33:04
that's what's not safe right that this is what's going to happen i'll control this this amount of
01:33:10
pain yeah because that's where all the pain comes from is like other people fucking dying or
01:33:15
disappointing you or or rejecting you or whatever when actually you're cutting yourself off from the
01:33:20
only thing that can make you feel better yeah and those things of them dying and rejecting and
01:33:26
disappointing is like, well, if you had felt them with your whole heart, you know, would the outcome
01:33:31
be the same? Or would you just, you know, be more grateful for the experience, right? Rather than
01:33:36
seeing how fucking shitty it was, right? Right. And we said that before, but it's like,
01:33:42
it is the going through life, if you can, and it takes a lot with the idea that this could happen
01:33:48
in any minute, you should live like it could happen in any minute. And I do, but not in an
01:33:52
anxiety way right in a positive way it's a new way yeah it's a new way but you had to learn that
01:33:57
lesson the worst possible way yeah it's crazy yeah um dude big stuff heavy shit this is not
01:34:05
just a podcast we're more than a podcast we're a book we're a book now too we're a book and a website
01:34:11
and a website and an exactly right podcast network please go listen to the murder squad and the
01:34:16
purr cast and the fall line and do you need a ride and this podcast will kill you we're um and
01:34:22
And then there's, of course, our new venture for the brand, which is our metal rolling door company that we're going to open up.
01:34:29
And they cost $5,000 a set. You want special graffiti on it? Well, it's extra. We just cater.
01:34:35
We custom build them to your personal emotional specifications. Roll them up. Roll them up.
01:34:42
Guys, let's all roll our emotional metal doors up together. Yes. And flash each other our soul tits.
01:34:51
Our soul tips. That's right. Great. We've done it, right? We did it. We're done.
01:34:57
Thank you so much. We love you. Yes. Thank you for listening and stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
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