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00:01:53
What's up, Oklahoma City? Wow, wow, wow, wow. Hey, wait a second. Is that from a lawn?
00:02:14
Doesn't that look like what they stick out, like, don't walk over here on this lawn.
00:02:17
We just planted tulips. Holy shit, you guys. Hi, guys. Wow. Truly, wow. Dude. Next level.
00:02:33
Next level, clapping. Eardrums. Who needs them? Boom. That's the goal, right? Blow out all eardrums.
00:02:48
Jesus. First of all, are we in space? That's my first question. Is this normally a basketball arena?
00:02:55
they put chairs in it's quite large yeah how are you guys we didn't have anything prepared
00:03:08
we didn't know you guys we didn't think it was going to be this intense between us
00:03:13
we just thought we thought it was cash my boots thank you oh yeah get into it why not get right into it then if she wants you to here was the risk here was the risk
00:03:32
when we went and did the grand old opry two weekends ago right beforehand i was reading some
00:03:38
emails in our in our account and one of them was like here's my hometown by the way when you go to
00:03:43
nashville don't wear a dress and cowboy boots because we make fun of all the tourists and
00:03:48
bachelorette parties who do that so i was like great and i wore heels but then i was like well
00:03:54
what if oklasoma city is okay with it and i really want to wear them yeah thank you they don't have
00:04:01
rules here they're not trying to get up in our business about don't do this and we'll laugh at
00:04:06
you if that they're just like come and listen to us scream please and to be fair in la we make fun
00:04:15
of this too so i don't know what i was thinking i feel like these days everybody's a target and
00:04:20
they should be buck up that's right deal with it that's i love that outfit though it's really good
00:04:29
this was made by a murderino for specifically us sarah duke from toronto when we were there
00:04:35
she gave us dresses georgia tried to remind me of this moment and i was just like give me something
00:04:41
else i don't know she's like she gave us dresses in line i'm like no not nothing's coming back
00:04:48
nothing at all maybe you didn't like yours no oh don't look pockets pockets two pockets what the fuck
00:05:01
yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah and she somehow was able to get this fucking a cup to get cleavage
00:05:11
of all things. I've never, this is like, everyone look. Yeah. They want to. They're great.
00:05:19
It feels like, I feel like a grown-up. Like, you know when you try in your mom's shoes
00:05:23
and I tried on my mom's boobs and walked around. Janet? What's up, Janet? Does Janet have tiny boobs?
00:05:33
Janet has store-bought. Stephen marked this already. Janet has store-bought boobs.
00:05:41
Oklahoma City that is a secret for you to keep in this room that is would that go straight into the vault I don't know if she cares I think she's proud of it
00:05:51
yeah look she fucking breastfed three why am I telling everyone this yeah I am but my dad recently we were hanging out and he was Marty Marty I had a lot of coffee and I just dominating this conversation
00:06:06
Go for it. No, I hope you do. He said to me, you know, when I'm in the audience and you start talking bad about your mom,
00:06:14
I just want you to know, I don't care. Because he's, it's fine. Because I'm always like, I'm sorry, dad.
00:06:22
He's like, I don't care. Marty! Guess a lot of shit went down between them. Guess so. I mean, look, what is it?
00:06:31
Anne Lamott says, listen, sorry. Sorry to interrupt the now call and response show that we're doing.
00:06:39
Everywhere we go, everybody does it. I was just going to say, Anne Lamott, the great writer, has an amazing quote, right?
00:06:47
Where she talks, because people, she teaches writing classes and people want to do autobiographical stuff.
00:06:52
but then they're like, I feel bad writing about my family and the stuff that they did
00:06:57
and she says, well, if they didn't want to get written about it, they shouldn't have acted like that.
00:07:03
Which is the best. That's right. You get to say what you want. May 28th, Stay Sexy and Don't Get Murdered, the book.
00:07:10
We did that. Talk about saying what we want and then only realizing afterwards that a whole bunch
00:07:19
of people are going to read it. that's the weird thing about writing a book it's for others right odd it's very odd too much lotion
00:07:29
i'm sweating no it's sweat this is addressed by simply b oh thanks but i almost i almost don't want to play along because it does not have pockets oh
00:07:41
um i know i'm sorry it's store-bought um those are little kitten heels i love them these we got
00:07:48
We got these for free from some clothing place at some point. I don't remember that.
00:07:52
And I remember when I got them, I'm like, I'm going to look like a goat if I wear those.
00:07:56
But I feel like it's spring and the goat look suits me. You know what I mean? I like it.
00:08:03
I think it's good. What a goat's sick. These are my hooves. Do you want to live deliciously?
00:08:13
Anybody? Can we get some grass out here for Karen? um oh no i wanted to apologize when we pulled into the theater tonight we got out of the car
00:08:23
and um some best friends of ours pulled up in their car and then just screamed at the top of
00:08:31
their lungs at us and i turned and looked i don't know what you did because you're on the other side
00:08:36
of the car i just stared at them because the screaming was so intense i thought they were
00:08:43
looking for the emergency room or they were being chased i was just kind of waiting for the other
00:08:50
shoe to drop and then they just were like this at us but i was like i gotta get out of here what if
00:08:56
they were doing that and the other girl that they were yelling to where's the emergency room was
00:09:01
going hi that was me hi but they ended up they were just come in but they were like we need to
00:09:07
know who the fuck are you we're bleeding so much blood in this car okay nice to see you
00:09:13
so anyway sorry gals i'll scream back at you next time louder yeah and longer yeah it's just
00:09:23
sometimes screaming like at six o'clock is jarring in the afternoon or in the morning when it's still
00:09:29
light outside and someone screams at you from a car it's scary uh-huh that's fair thank you
00:09:36
i know they meant well i just feel like i know my face can get pretty serious and scary sometimes.
00:09:45
And I hadn't blow-dried my hair yet, so I'm sure there was a real... You look like one of the witches from Macbeth
00:09:50
turned around and stared at him. I didn't mean it like that. I didn't mean it. Speaking of, this is my favorite murder.
00:09:58
This is my favorite murder. This is my favorite murder. This is Karen Kilgariff.
00:10:05
This is Georgia Hartstark. Thank you. Thank you so much. Stephen is home. That's right.
00:10:19
That's right. We're sad, too. He's not allowed here. His mustache would get in a fight with someone else's mustache.
00:10:29
Then we'd have to bail him out again. The thing about having a performative mustache, like many men do in L.A.,
00:10:36
is that when you come to the Midwest and the center of the nation, you often get into gunfights that you aren't prepared for.
00:10:44
You bring your mustache to a gunfight. It doesn't end well. Stephen has this, Stephen has a, I'm going to talk some shit.
00:10:53
No, I'm not. He has like a. Stephen, mark this about yourself. Take this out. He's like a chia pet.
00:10:59
He just like, he'll have this perfect clopped everything. And then you see in like two months, everything kind of expands.
00:11:06
And then he goes and buys another chia pet. And he's just like, it's just like you can see how he's doing by his hair growth.
00:11:12
I hope he's selling that hair to wig makers and cancer centers all across the nation.
00:11:20
He could make so much money. Truly. I was trying to think. There's a couple corrections corners I have.
00:11:24
And it's fun to do them live. Like if something, right? Something just gets posted, then you just do it live.
00:11:31
Oh, the word I was trying to think of was Victorian. That means anything to anyone from the other day.
00:11:38
I kept talking about a rough, and then I dove into the Renaissance, something I know almost
00:11:43
nothing about, and got real scared and froze. And then some friend of ours walked up and goes, Victorian?
00:11:51
And I was like, yes. Yes Still know next to nothing about it I couldn have helped you even if you had gotten it right Yeah There a lot of areas we should not go into Truly
00:12:05
As you know. And yet, here we go. Yet, here we are. Is it sit-down time? Yeah. Ooh.
00:12:17
All right. Someone stole these from the bar at the Residence Inn. Hey, are you in town on business?
00:12:28
I feel like I'm at a cafe in the 90s. Let's see, I'll have a Cosmo with a Goldschlager back.
00:12:36
Put your napkin on your lap. Oh, thank you. Excuse me, can we get service? We haven't even seen anybody.
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Goodbye. Trying so hard to eat healthy. Don't yell chicken nuggets, please. Also, don't yell.
00:16:12
Who goes first tonight? It's me. okay someone recently can you see what that's do you recognize it
00:16:25
nope no I know what yours is I know I know it's only a 30 second jump in time oh but first we have to say
00:16:34
to all the people who were brought here against their will by people who listen yes you're everywhere
00:16:41
so many of you wasting tickets. So sometimes when people hear that this is a true crime comedy podcast and they
00:16:53
haven't heard it and they don't know us, they get offended because they believe that comedy and true
00:16:57
crime, which is basically comedy and murder, don't belong together. And they think that's wrong and
00:17:03
bad. And so we just like to start the show by explaining that Georgia and I have loved true
00:17:09
crime. We've been fascinated by it ever since we were really young, but we also, since we're really,
00:17:13
really young, have processed anxiety, fear, and pain through humor. And so those things,
00:17:20
right? Those things go together for us and conversationally it makes sense for us to talk
00:17:28
about the worst things and then relieve ourselves, I was going to say. Anywhere we please. Verbally
00:17:38
relieve ourselves. Right in the corner, in front of each other. And blah, blah, blah.
00:17:44
You've heard this a million times. Essentially, if you're offended, get the fuck out, is what
00:17:48
we saying Okay They know They know Tonight I going to do the Hi Club murder I got this information from TulsaWorld
00:18:09
Oh my god, you guys love the internet. Yeah, the internet is huge first of all. Oh my god.
00:18:17
Because it actually contains a Tulsa world. Can you imagine? Oh my god. How expansive must it be?
00:18:25
Truly. Can you imagine doing this? Never mind. Say it. That was real dumb. You've got to say it now.
00:18:31
Without the internet? But then there wouldn't be a buck. Knocking on doors. Would you listen to this cassette of me and my friend talking?
00:18:44
It's a ton of inside jokes. Oh, your boyfriend won't like it. He won't like it. you're going to have to go into a different room.
00:18:54
Thank you. Great. I'll be back in two months to hear if you like it or not. Get ready with a thumbs up or a thumbs down.
00:19:05
Yeah. We might, maybe we should start doing it that way. Text tapes? More, yeah, like.
00:19:10
Or door knocking. Door knocking, grassroots, you know, home to home. I think that's what we're doing.
00:19:18
Oh. Here. Yeah. We'll put more flyers in record stores. Yes, we should. Cafes. Okay.
00:19:29
Tulsa World is where I went to get some of this information. Great. You remember.
00:19:36
Absolutely. Also, there's a website called malefactorsregister.com, which, yeah, has a lot of great information.
00:19:45
And then there's an author named Jason Lucky Morrow who does an amazing website called historicalcrimedetective.com.
00:19:52
And he wrote a book about this case called Deadly Hero, the high society murder that created hysteria in the heartland.
00:19:59
Are you ready? Are they mad? No. What did you say? Are they mad? No. We don't call it the heartland anymore.
00:20:09
It's going to be one of those. Okay. She threw her napkin down and walked off. She's livid.
00:20:16
waiter we need to check you gotta snap you gotta snap at him that's the only way snap and grab at
00:20:25
their apron as they walk by they love it they love it okay we begin november 1934 yeah i like
00:20:37
the old ones the old ones for live shows are awesome because all the references are there of
00:20:43
your local shit, but then it's not super recent. You don't have to be like tense or super bummed.
00:20:49
And then we can make all the hideous jokes we want to. That's my, that's what I'm bringing to
00:20:54
the table. That's what I enjoy. Okay. So, uh, 1934, 21 year old, a John Goral Jr. has just returned
00:21:02
home, um, to Tulsa spending Thanksgiving with his father, John Goral Sr. That's right.
00:21:14
I get so scared when you point at me that I'm like, I don't know. Yeah, I understand.
00:21:20
I just, right as I was going to do that, someone screamed something like a chicken,
00:21:24
and now I want to know what it is, but I don't want to encourage it. They said senior, like a chicken.
00:21:30
But they said like, yeah, yeah. Because they also have tension when someone's pointed at,
00:21:36
just not when it's pointed at someone else. They want to be a hero, and I appreciate it.
00:21:41
Hey, we all do. Hey, we all do. Okay, so John and John eating Thanksgiving dinner together.
00:21:49
John Sr. is a wealthy and prominent doctor. Junior's been living in Kansas City where he's been attending dental school to become a dentist.
00:21:59
That's right. Yes. Yes. Yes. Beautiful. Thank you. There he is. Hey. What? No. No.
00:22:10
that's not allowed oh my god don't mean shame them this isn't a hot or not test for fuck's sake
00:22:26
sorry aren't we not about that guys tighten it up I think he's cute seriously my worst fucking fear oh no let's see what this next picture oh whoa whoa whoa
00:22:49
okay but okay but in their defense would you want that guy to be your dentist yes or no yes you know why why because he has one big tooth and that
00:23:01
shows priorities that's what he's about yeah Now I'm offended. I have to say, though, there are other pictures of him.
00:23:18
Jay picked this. After I picked it, like, it approved everything, because he's like, here's this picture, here's this picture.
00:23:25
I picked it, and then I looked for a different picture, and another one of him came up,
00:23:30
and it was a real before or after. It was like a Maury Povich episode. of like, I used to be fugly, but now I'm fly or whatever.
00:23:42
It looks like whoever got cast in the made-for-TV movie is actually in it, but he's hot.
00:23:48
Yeah. Got it. It might just be that the sun was at a certain point in the sky. You know how it was back then.
00:23:54
The sun was always in different places. With all these sun, you were like a human sundial sometimes.
00:24:00
god all right all right let's yeah that's him great can you tell me if my brush like i i'm not
00:24:08
used to this just like let me know it sucks doesn't it yeah it does yeah flopping all over the place
00:24:13
and be like hey slut pull your dress up that sucks i'm sorry you went through that i won't i won't do that no no i mean it sucks that
00:24:25
you've experienced. No one's ever called me a slut in my life. God, that's the dream. That's what we're trying to get to.
00:24:31
I know. I'll get there. I'm going to get there one day. Yeah, you will. Don't worry.
00:24:36
Thank you. It's going to be hard without liquor, but I think I can do it. I think I can.
00:24:44
Hey, man, we're on tour. Like, let's go wild. Hey, suck him. Residence Inn. What's up?
00:24:51
Pull the dress half off the shoulder. Karen, put your clothes on. Karen, stop it.
00:24:58
Karen, it's 7.30. Okay, where's my spot? We're back in. And the Johns are eating dinner.
00:25:07
Okay. Beautifully, with beautiful souls and spirits. Okay. And then afterwards, John Jr. goes out to meet up with a friend named Charles Bard.
00:25:18
Bard is a student at the Oklahoma Agricultural and Mechanical College. Oh, sure.
00:25:28
Someone's mad at them. Yeah. You know what it is? That's the rival animal husbandry college.
00:25:34
They're like, no, no, no. Don't bring that agricultural mechanical bullshit over here.
00:25:42
Uh-uh. Then there's an FFA section in the back. We'll kick all your asses. John and Charles pick up some girls
00:25:54
and they all go out for a drive which is the only thing to do in 1934 you better drive around
00:26:02
so around 1030 John drops off Bard and the girls and he tells them he's got an important appointment that he has to get to
00:26:12
and then he drives away okay right it's not a red flag yet it's not if he kicked them all out of the car
00:26:24
with his cowboy boot or whatever then they'd be a red flag get out around midnight that night
00:26:32
a man named Wesley Cunningham oh come on made up I picture Wesley Cunningham to look like
00:26:42
like alfalfa from our gang. Like his hair is parted down the middle and then greased to the sides.
00:26:51
And his hands are in his pocket and he's whistling. Yep. I'm sorry, I'm thinking of Jughead from the Archie comics.
00:27:00
That's a different person. Didn't know the difference. Okay, so Wesley Cunningham,
00:27:08
he's walking through an affluent neighborhood near the Philbrook Museum. Look at it.
00:27:16
Look at this fucking rich people's museum they have in Tulsa. Damn, guys. We'll play there tomorrow night.
00:27:29
We'll play there tomorrow night? Yeah. We're going to be playing on this lawn tomorrow night.
00:27:36
So as I was pulling the picture for that, I did this one. And I just looked up real quick to see what the Philbrook was all about.
00:27:45
And they have Andrew Wyeth paintings there, who's my favorite painter. So let's really quick just look.
00:27:50
Oh, look at my dog. That's George. That's my dog. That's beautiful. Now, I don't know if that's the real name or if I just told Jay that the name of the painting was Dog and Barn.
00:28:05
But then there's this one. Oh, my God. Wind from the Sea. Have you ever seen this?
00:28:09
Have you seen this shit where someone paints a painting and then paints lace curtains over it?
00:28:14
No. How did he do that? Karen, can I tell you how impressed and kind of intimidated I am that you have a favorite painter?
00:28:21
Oh. Am I flexing on you right now? You're with art. I'm impressed. It's working.
00:28:27
You like art? Eh. No, I do. Wait, I'm going to sell you on this one. No, I'm in.
00:28:36
I'm in. He's my favorite painter now, too. Okay, well, no, you have to pick a different one.
00:28:42
There's ten. He's famous for the painting Christina's World. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay.
00:28:49
Which, of course, so I find this one, right, and I'm like, oh, to show Christina's World,
00:28:53
because that's what he's famous for. I literally know this from Google's images.
00:28:57
It's not like I go to the museum or anything like that. Okay. Yeah. I don't care.
00:29:02
I'll be like, look at that painting of a feather. Oh, that one's Andrew Wyeth. And then I've done that enough times, so then I'm like, he's my favorite painter.
00:29:10
There's no book learning involved. Sorry, art school graduates. Sorry, all of Tulsa and the Phil Brook Foundation.
00:29:21
This is a very, this painting is parodied a lot. Okay. Aww. Do you remember? That sucks.
00:29:31
It was like 10 years ago, there was a sit-in at UC Davis, and this guy just walked by and straight up fucking pepper sprayed like
00:29:38
just a sitting group of 19 year olds just walked by and right in their face goodbye
00:29:45
and then someone is genius enough to fucking do this which is why I love modern life so much
00:29:53
the internet they think of everything then of course not to be partisan but there this one which i fucking love come on you have to admit it funny that more long
00:30:05
oh my god amazing there was also one of lisa simpson and the house on the hill is pink
00:30:17
but whoever drew it i was like i don't know about the stability of whoever drew this
00:30:25
It was clearly not like official merch. Okay. Art corner is over. Back to the story.
00:30:34
Okay, Wesley Cunningham. So he's walking near that museum. Painting. Oh, okay. Painting.
00:30:39
Got it. Museum. He is. Wesley Cunningham is Andrew Wyeth's fake name. Okay. He's walking in the neighborhood, fancy neighborhood, high-end neighborhood.
00:30:49
He sees one lone car parked by itself on the corner. and then he notices all the surrounding street lights are out so he walks over to the car don't
00:30:59
do that right walk away from the car um to see what's going on he finds the body of john goral
00:31:06
jr slumped over in the front seat with two bullet holes in his temple and a 22 caliber gun laying at
00:31:13
his side so obviously the police are called and then they begin to investigate the scene
00:31:18
and they discover that the 22 belongs to John Goral Jr. But judging by the body's position, suicide is not possible.
00:31:28
Also, hey, he shot himself twice in the head. You can't do that. Very good point.
00:31:35
I feel like I repeated that point so many times. Really nice thinking. Thank you.
00:31:43
I went to art school. I went to college. He could have shot himself and then like, quick, quick, quick, quick.
00:31:56
Who knows? Oh, you do. I know. Yeah, that's right. I just told you. Yeah, you told me.
00:32:04
Then as they investigate, they realize all the streetlights have been shot out. What?
00:32:09
Yeah. I don't like that. That is a red flag. That is a red flag. put the red fag on your lawn of suspicion because some tulips of murder about to grow up out of it
00:32:20
am i right okay good one thank you missed the suicide thing but got that one perfectly all
00:32:27
right so so basically the entire scene is very unnerving and suspicious much like andrew wyath's
00:32:33
christina's world all right so the investigators have no immediate leads john girl jr has no known
00:32:39
enemies, police record. They don't know who could have killed him, why anyone would want him dead.
00:32:44
But then, luckily, a local airplane pilot named Floyd Huff comes forward with an
00:32:51
interesting story. He's every man. Yeah. Literally. Look at that smirk. He of course knows
00:33:01
something. You know what he knows? What? How to fly. Oh. That's pretty good. That's the
00:33:06
the smug smirk of a man who can fly in the air. Yeah. Unlike many of us. So Floyd comes forward
00:33:13
and he's like, I think you guys are going to want to hear this story. Um, he was in Kansas city
00:33:18
shortly before Thanksgiving. And while he was there, he was approached by a young man who wanted
00:33:22
to hire him to fly him to Tulsa. Um, because the weather conditions were bad. Uh, Floyd Huff said,
00:33:28
no, thank you. Um, but he told the young man he was planning on driving there himself and he
00:33:33
offered him a ride so the man accepted and during the ride um the young man told huff outright that
00:33:40
he planned to kill john goral jr you got to keep your mouth shut sometimes people yeah but you know
00:33:47
on a road trip when like a good song comes on and you've been on the road for like the window
00:33:52
yeah half an hour you're just you're feeling a real kinship in that car yep shared a bag of
00:34:00
cheetos or whatever 1934 cheetos which was just just seeds it was just four seeds in someone's the palm of someone's hand
00:34:11
so uh in in huff's own words he said the man quote said that goral was plotting to extort
00:34:19
twenty thousand dollars from homer wilcox the millionaire oilman under the threat of kidnapping
00:34:25
wilcox's daughter virginia or her brother homer jr and here's virginia wilcox nope shit no but who's that not her either okay spoiler alert
00:34:43
wait wait okay so these rich people were gonna get kidnapped by the guy found dead
00:34:49
and so this dude was going to kill that guy. This dude was basically ratting out the dead guy.
00:34:57
Thwarting the kidnapping. And saying he was going to kidnap these people and I'm going to go kill him.
00:35:02
Okay. Yeah, essentially. We're there with you. Are we here? Yes. Okay. Here's a photo of Virginia Wilcox.
00:35:10
So the young man tells Floyd the entire fucking plan. He explains that he first considered renting a plane
00:35:16
and shoving Gurel out of it while they were in the air. That was plan one. That's ambitious.
00:35:25
Yeah. And then he was like, you know what, I'm going to go back to the drawing board on this one.
00:35:33
Hard to convince someone to get onto a plane so you can then push them off the plane.
00:35:37
Absolutely. So then the young man told Floyd, he said he thought it might be easier just to stab Gurel instead.
00:35:43
and at that point he pulls out a huge hunting knife and a pair of rubber gloves and shows them. And the guy just
00:35:50
kicks him out of the car? And the guy takes him to a plane and then shoves him out of it.
00:35:54
No I guess he just does that thing that everybody always does when they uncomfortable which is oh And then continues to drive for another however many hours
00:36:08
So when authorities ask Floyd Huff to identify who this man is, he names 19-year-old Philip Kennemer,
00:36:15
who is, as you can very obviously tell, the son of a very highly respected Oklahoma federal judge
00:36:25
named Franklin E. Kenmer. Sure. You'd never suspect from that level of smarm that he's a federal judge's son, would you?
00:36:35
No. Never. Okay. Is that a Diane von Furstenberg wraparound blazer that he's wearing?
00:36:43
I don't get how that jacket buttons. It's a devil-breasted suit. Am I making that up?
00:36:50
I could never. Yeah, but I mean, it's way over. That's true. Because people had no, people had waist this size back then.
00:36:58
They fucking sure did. Men, women, children, animals. I think there's really something to eating seeds as Cheetos.
00:37:06
That might really be the key. You were on to something. Okay, let's write that one down, Stephen.
00:37:11
Put it on the list. Put it on the list. that's going to be our new diet plan no more cheetos seeds and just all different cut types
00:37:22
of bird seed i'd rather just drink water honestly than eat seeds you can water's on the diet okay
00:37:30
yeah it's seeds and water and now and laters and then of course chicken mcnuggets okay
00:37:40
which i tried to order last night we did the whole sorry we did the whole thing of like getting into the hotel late so there was nothing open and then we found on the app
00:37:51
vince and i that mcdonald's was open and they'll deliver and we were like great and like put our
00:37:55
order in and shit and then it was like sorry it's closed like we had picked our sauces it's not that
00:38:02
think of a deal. But there is a kind of a, the hunger build as you're on that app. Tell me before.
00:38:10
Also because, you know, when you're on the app, that's what's bad about those apps is instead of
00:38:14
talking to somebody on the phone and being like, and that's all I'll have. Oh, sorry. Also a green
00:38:19
salad. Instead of having to do any of that, you're on an app. So then you're like two apple pies.
00:38:24
yeah what kind of ice cream items do you have do they travel do they travel well well they're not
00:38:33
made of real ice or cream so they travel great they stay exactly the way they come out of that
00:38:39
machine they stay that way for four hours you shouldn't eat it but do it anyway but you gotta
00:38:44
love it okay so the police notified judge kenimer of the accusation and he actually
00:38:52
of course very begrudgingly but he turns his son in. Yeah imagine. So on December 1st 1934
00:39:00
which is only two days after John Grell Jr.'s body was found. So the police question Phil Kenimer
00:39:07
the son. He admits that he did the shooting but he explains that it was in self-defense. So he says
00:39:13
that the extortion plot that Floyd Huff described that he was talking about was real
00:39:18
but that it was John Grell Jr.'s idea and he wanted to call it off. Phil wanted to call it off
00:39:24
because he had feelings for Virginia Wilcox. Let's see if she's here now. It's not going to...
00:39:28
I was thinking of her as a child so let's make sure she's not... A child? I thought it was a child the whole time.
00:39:35
Oh, because she was going to get kidnapped? Yeah. Is that weird? She's going to get...
00:39:38
Is that ageism? Lady-napped. All right. Let's see. Not that one. There she is. Oh, shit.
00:39:45
I've got feelings for her too yeah look at the eyebrows they're even also she has that look
00:39:57
just like the 30s it's not great I'm this pretty and I still have to do the dishes
00:40:08
by hand with bleach okay we have to go back one All right. So it's all over her, right? He says he basically that that John girl had this extortion plot.
00:40:22
They were going to kidnap her, but that because Phil had feelings for her, he wanted to protect her.
00:40:28
So, OK, so he had he was supposed to mail the letter, but he wouldn't do it because he suddenly realized this could put Virginia in peril.
00:40:35
And so he went to that night, Thanksgiving night. He went to Garel to tell him that he had not mailed the ransom note and he begged him, according to Phil.
00:40:45
He begged him not to go through with the plot, but John Grell Jr. refused, and they start arguing,
00:40:51
and that's when Kenimer threatens to go to the police with that ransom note he never sent,
00:40:56
and that's when John Grell pulls out that .22, goes to shoot Kenimer. They get into like a scuffle, and Phil Kenimer says that in the chaos, he's not sure how it happened,
00:41:08
but one of them pulled the trigger, and John Grell Jr. got shot twice in the head.
00:41:12
you know yeah how sometimes when you're scuffling and you win yeah double you win and then you celebrate which is wrong
00:41:22
okay got it and then you shoot all the fucking lights out yeah then you're like oh you saw a
00:41:29
motherfucker i'm back so of course for minimum two if not more reasons the cops are not buying this story
00:41:40
um so they question the people closest to um phil keneman to kenimer to get a better sense of his
00:41:48
character they find out that he known for being an arrogant rich kid shocking um he smart but he doesn apply himself at school um or work he known to be an attention seeker who loves being in the spotlight but only if he being praised I don see the problem with any of these things actually
00:42:07
I'm not retracting my judgment of this person. He rejects any sort of negative criticism about himself.
00:42:14
What? That's stupid. Waiter, we need that check. This is getting, it's bad now. Okay.
00:42:23
So they also say that Phil Kenimer had gone out with Virginia Wilcox. He had taken her out on her first date.
00:42:33
But she almost immediately lost interest in him, if she ever had it in the first place.
00:42:38
And, spoiler, later on in the trial, she goes on the stand and basically goes, I don't know that guy.
00:42:46
Oh. Yeah. Ouch. You try to save someone by shooting someone else. and this is how they repay you?
00:42:55
By shaming you in court? Unfortunately, Phil was in love and he was angry that she did not share his feelings.
00:43:01
So then the cops go to talk to the friends of John Gorel and that's when they discover a little thing
00:43:11
that was a secret in Tulsa among the wealthiest young men. They had started a gang of thrill seekers,
00:43:18
that's in quotes, a gang of thrill seekers called the Hi-Hat Club. Right. So it's a bunch of, there's lots of oil money
00:43:27
that you guys know, but Georgia might not know. There's a lot of oil money around these parts.
00:43:33
And I guess up in Tulsa. And there are lots and lots of what they may have called back then
00:43:40
the Nouveau Riche. And so it was people who had basically been busting their ass, you know,
00:43:47
on these oil wells. and then they hit it big and suddenly they're like millionaires in 1934.
00:43:55
Right. And so then their children are the worst. Right? It's almost always how it happens, pretty much.
00:44:04
That's the equation. Yeah. But it's very new. Like the money, the parents aren't used to the money,
00:44:10
so then the kids, they don't know how to kind of moderate it, I guess, is what they were talking about.
00:44:15
So here's the initiation to get into the high hat club. You drink 10 glasses of beer, then you have to drive 60 miles an hour around a corner on a street.
00:44:25
Come on! That's dangerous and nerdy. It's so fucking dorky. It's so dorky. And you know those cars didn't go 60 miles an hour back then, did they?
00:44:38
They have to like wind up the old fucking jalopy. Oh, we were doing it together.
00:44:44
Wind it up. Yep. then you have to let it idle for 45 minutes so the engine warms up do you know my fucking father
00:44:51
it's 2019 and he still tells you you have to wait for the engine to warm up in his car
00:44:58
don't just drive it i'm like dad uh whatever thing you're thinking of literally doesn't exist anymore
00:45:05
like this car engine is a computer yeah and you're 100 love you dad I owe it all to you
00:45:17
my dad doesn't mind when you talk shit about your dad on stage Marty's fine with it
00:45:23
he's totally fine oh also at the end of that initiation you have to smoke pot and have sex
00:45:30
so yeah which you know was schwag back then sex I mean just weird bits of sex that no one wants seeds and stems of sex are you gonna put that on my
00:45:47
shoulder what what it doesn't go like that please don't blow that in my face thank you oh my god sorry i was reading i was reading i was reading i'm sorry
00:46:01
because this always happens i'll write a dumb joke underneath the thing but now we're too far
00:46:07
way. I'm going to say it anyway. Okay. Say it. I say it. They call it an initiation. I call it a
00:46:12
standard Wednesday night. Thank you, Oklahoma. Thank you, balconies. The balconies are the ones
00:46:21
I love the most. I didn't mean it. Okay. God, I'm just terrible, terrible comedy. Okay. So once
00:46:36
they're in the gang, the hi-hat members are free to then engage in activities like smuggling
00:46:42
drugs. What kind? Was anything illegal back then? I don't think it was. I feel like all of it was really
00:46:52
encouraged. Yeah, yeah. I think, well, no, this was past the old put some cocaine on it when you had to cut time.
00:46:58
I don't think so. 34? 34? We gotta get a drug dealer in here to answer some of these questions.
00:47:05
Vince, no. I just fucking threw my husband under the bus. See? See? That's what bad comedy does to us.
00:47:13
Oh, shit. Waiter, will you get that eight ball ready for us? Vince has it. Vince has it in his pocket.
00:47:25
We're going to split the tap. God. I would be literally dead if I still did that.
00:47:32
No. Okay. Okay, so what I love is that the cops had no idea that this was going on, or they did,
00:47:42
and of course they just simply didn't do anything about it because all the kids in the hi-hat
00:47:46
club were the richest of the rich, and all their parents were super connected. So they probably came around that corner going 60, shit-faced on 10 glasses of bad beer, killed
00:48:00
families and then they're like just let him go he's a nice white boy so okay so they discover that not only uh not only are both john growl jr and phil kenmer
00:48:14
members of the hi-hat gang but so is homer wilcox one of the intended victims of the
00:48:20
would-be kidnapping and extortion okay um so basically when the rest of tulsa finds out about
00:48:27
the hi-hat gang. They fucking lose their shit. Everybody freaks out because, of course, today's
00:48:32
standards, those things aren't that big of a deal. But back in 1934, you know, it was a conservative
00:48:39
town. It was, you know, traditional. And they believed all of this was pure Satan-induced
00:48:47
insanity. Yay! The best kind. So they start to fear for the welfare of their own kids. They're
00:48:56
scared that no one, not even the good little rich boys, are safe from the pitfalls of evil
00:49:02
influence, which is like super backwards. So police also find that on the night of the killing,
00:49:10
a small crew of the Hi-Hat members had taken Kenimer to like driven him around town. The
00:49:15
president of the Hi-Hat club. The president? See, they're just fucking nerds. They're nerds with
00:49:21
drugs um 19 year old son of the director of petroleum research at the local college was
00:49:28
his name was sydney bourne let's see if we we'll get to now it's that fucking picture again there
00:49:34
she okay her we know it's about her there he is okay i'm the president i can do anything i want
00:49:42
i call president I call president. Fine, I'll be sergeant at arms. So Sidney had driven Phil Kenimer to the spot where Kenimer killed John Goral Jr. on Thanksgiving night.
00:50:03
And then on December 9th, just a week after Phil Kenimer is apprehended, a random driver passes by Sidney Bourne's car,
00:50:11
finds him inside, dead from a bullet wound. No way. Yes. And in his lap was his father's revolver.
00:50:19
And the location of the car was not far from where John Groll Jr.'s body was found.
00:50:24
There's some revel without a car shit here. Yeah, it's nuts. It's connected and it goes,
00:50:30
All the way to the car! Okay. Okay. But unlike John Groll Jr., uh sydney bourne's death is ruled a suicide although the hype and hysteria surrounding
00:50:41
the case makes many people believe that it could be another gang related murder um maybe because it
00:50:47
was exactly like the first one i don't know maybe it's hysteria all right and then to further
00:50:53
complicate things um the police then arrest homer wilcox jr virginia wilcox's brother for his own
00:51:00
kidnapping? Four, they figure out and are able to prove he's the one that shot the lights out.
00:51:07
Oh. Yeah. Why? Well, they say when they're arrested for it, of course, they get released
00:51:16
with a fine because the whole thing's chalked up to, quote, malicious mischief. Oh, you're right. Fucking assholes. They say that they were just out shooting out lights for fun.
00:51:30
You know, those mean old lights. We like to shoot out lights and then see if the glass will go in our eyes.
00:51:36
Because we're the hi-hat club. We have a song. Ready? Ready, Bella? Ready? Na, na, na, na.
00:51:44
Put that glass right in our eyes. We're the hi-hat club. What's happening? This is too long.
00:51:51
It's taking too long. This is taking too long. they decide that they're shooting out the lights on the street where john girl jr was murdered
00:52:02
is just a coincidence even though the decreased visibility would have helped kenmer carry out the
00:52:07
murder in secret anyway after he hears about sydney bourne's death phil kenmer starts to spill it
00:52:15
and he reveals that he was also involved in the extortion scheme he admits that he was a part of
00:52:20
it. He then explains to the cops that he was only involved so he could project Virginia Wilcox
00:52:25
because he was in love with her and had been for years. He had taken her out on our first date that
00:52:30
I said, and he had apparently, quote, penned odes to her beauty. So I guess poetry was a big part of
00:52:37
that gang. According to Kenimer, John Grohl Jr. was in, he was big into petty theft, but then he now
00:52:47
wanted to move on to quote the big stuff and so in the fall of 1934 when he's away at dental school
00:52:53
he comes up with this plot to kidnap Virginia and extort her father for money is what is the story
00:52:59
he's telling the cops the petty theft and dental school are don't really flow together I mean he
00:53:05
manages his time so well though he's just like and we're just gonna put a little bit more novocaine
00:53:12
on that. Sorry, really quick. I'm going to steal $500 out of your purse. Don't panic. It's petty.
00:53:19
It's not a big deal. So, so he, they write the extortion letter together for the kidnapping plot.
00:53:28
And then Goral gives it to Kenimer to mail. Kenimer of course changes his mind, as I said.
00:53:33
So Kenimer says that he went, he found John Goral Thanksgiving night, showed him the note,
00:53:39
said, I didn't send it. I've changed my mind. Please don't do this. Please don't do it for
00:53:45
the sake of Virginia. And then of course the whole story about them fighting and accidentally
00:53:51
shooting him twice So this is the picture that keeps coming up but this God damn it Oh well that okay That Sydney Bourne car the guy that they say committed suicide who was also in this gang Okay Uh I guess we won go back to that picture It not that important Um so uh Oh this there is a good picture of him outside the courthouse though
00:54:11
Let's see what we do. Oh, this is him reading about himself in the newspaper. All right, buddy.
00:54:16
and he's wearing an amazing Eileen Fisher jacket. It's ivory and dope. Are they letting him get a haircut or something?
00:54:31
Looks like it. I don't know where that is. Anyway, outside the courthouse when he goes to court,
00:54:37
all these people are there. So this little factoid is absolutely my favorite and kind of the reason I picked this.
00:54:47
The people of Tulsa are so gripped by this story. Well, first of all, they have to move the trial to Pawnee
00:54:52
to accommodate all the spectators. Even with the move, the frenzied interest in the case is still so high
00:55:01
that attendees literally rip the doors off the courthouse to get in. Yeah. How bored do you have to be?
00:55:12
I mean. This is it. We have to see this. How dare you? Wow. Don't you love that?
00:55:19
I just picture one kid hulking out and fucking pulling the doors off. You're eating a ton of corn.
00:55:25
That kid. Out of my way. Oh, this guy? Yeah, yeah. That little guy. He's like, I have a secret.
00:55:33
I can rip doors off of courthouses. Don't believe me? Maybe I could be in the high hat gang.
00:55:41
You little shit. Get out of here. It just makes me think of all the times people ask us,
00:55:48
what do you think this thing is with this new trend in true crime interest? They're fucking ripping the doors off of courthouses in 1934.
00:55:58
This is not new. The trial lasts 11 days. The prosecution claims that this concept of self-defense played no role in Kenimer's actions.
00:56:09
They paint a picture of a highly dangerous killer who intended to kill John Grohl Jr.
00:56:13
They say that whole story and situation was just a ruse to win the affections of Virginia Wilcox and favor her family by positioning himself as a hero.
00:56:24
And the prosecution asked for him to be sentenced to death in the electric chair.
00:56:29
They were super fucking specific about it. And they were like, and we'll pick his last meal.
00:56:36
Birdseed and water. Okay. But Kenimer's defense team enters a plea of not guilty by reason of insanity.
00:56:44
No. And this pisses Phil Kenimer off. He doesn't like that because he sees himself as very intelligent, sane, and he's insulted.
00:56:53
So despite his protests, they bring in psychiatrists, friends, family, even his own father to testify that he is actually insane.
00:57:03
Judge Kenimer testifies that his son had been enrolled in and quit four different boarding and military schools.
00:57:11
He was very emotional and at times very unreasonable. It might be the drugs. He testifies that he'd gotten to fill several jobs, that he'd worked for a few weeks and then quit,
00:57:23
and that his son talked of joining the French Foreign Legion, saying it would be a good way to banish himself from decent society.
00:57:30
Sounds like half the people in L.A. that I know. It sounds like any 19-year-old.
00:57:34
It's like, I'm going to fucking join the French Foreign Legion. Good. Yeah, Dad.
00:57:39
Go. Do it. Let them. Okay, so this is all supported by the testimony of the other high-hatters
00:57:50
who were out with Phil that night. They were hanging out at the Owl Tavern. No. No.
00:58:00
No. Nope. It must be a total shithole. So apparently Phil Kenimer came in at 9 o'clock, around 9.30.
00:58:08
He told everyone within earshot that he was looking for John Goral Jr. because he wanted to kill him.
00:58:13
And then he pulled out his large hunting knife that he loved to brandish. And a high hatter named Randall B.B. Morton recalled the exchange he had where he said,
00:58:26
quote, I said, Phil, maybe I had better take that knife. I may want to use it going hunting.
00:58:32
And I just reached over and got it and put it in my overcoat pocket. And he said, BB,
00:58:36
are you going to send me out with these bare hands to kill Goral? And I said, yes, if that's the way
00:58:41
you want to go, Phil. And he just walked out and left the tavern. I love that he's like a drunk
00:58:48
driving friend who's like, taking your keys, buddy. Yeah. Get home how you can, but you can't drive.
00:58:54
Taking the knife, murder how you can. How about I hold on to this for you, friend?
00:59:00
So essentially when it all gets sussed out, the jury deliberates for eight hours,
00:59:05
and then on February 22, 1935, they find Philip Kenimer guilty of manslaughter. And he's sentenced to 25 years in prison.
00:59:15
So, oh, that's him in court. All right. What's up, finger waves? It feels like nothing existed in 1934.
00:59:25
There's like nothing on the walls and it's just men in suits in a room. Not a single.
00:59:32
Did you pull the door off or was it you? Oh. There's the. That's the newspaper. So here's what's interesting.
00:59:48
So in the wake of Kenimer's trial, the hi-hat club is disbanded once and for all, as far
00:59:54
as we know There could be a shit ton of secret hi in here right now So while in prison Kenimer files for several appeals
01:00:05
They're all denied, and it isn't until April 23, 1943. So he serves eight years in prison for manslaughter,
01:00:12
and then Oklahoma Governor Robert S. Kerr grants him parole. When he's released, he immediately joins the Army,
01:00:21
becomes a paratrooper in World War II. Oh, wait, that's him. Shit. That's his first night in the Army.
01:00:32
He didn't like it. He said the bed was hard and the pillow wasn't very big. That's him going into the Oklahoma State pen.
01:00:41
Okay. Here's him going into the Army eight years later. Wow. This guy, on June 6, 1944.
01:00:51
No. He parachutes into France on D-Day and remains in battle overseas until he's gunned down by a Nazi on August 15, 1944,
01:01:01
and he dies at age 49. What? So before his death, he told a reporter, something just seems to tell me that I won't come back
01:01:10
because they interviewed him when he was leaving for the war. Something tells me I won't come back.
01:01:14
I hope that if I die under the flag of my country, those who have condemned me will hold me differently in their memories.
01:01:20
I will. Okay. One anonymous high hatter, oh, and this is kind of what I said before, but
01:01:28
one anonymous high hatter explained the youthful ennui this way to the international news service
01:01:33
reporter. This whole trouble in Tulsa society is this. Forty years ago, these millionaires did not
01:01:40
have a dime. They were workers in the oil fields and their wives were just ordinary girls,
01:01:45
some of them waitresses and the like. Waitress. Then comes the golden flood of oil and gold.
01:01:53
They had millions all of a sudden. They showered money, money, money on their children.
01:01:58
Too many expensive automobiles. Too much time to do nothing. And that is the rich and privileged story of the High Hatter's murder.
01:02:06
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01:04:21
Goodbye. Here we go, everyone. I'm doing the Oklahoma City Butcher. Ooh. Get ready for some fucked up shit.
01:04:37
Okay. Your favorite kind of shit. Yeah. All right. I got a lot of info. I like my shit straight, right angle shit.
01:04:47
Okay. We can do it that way if you want. I got a bunch of information from, of course, Wikipedia and Reddit, our best friends.
01:04:55
And also 405magazine.com. com but there was a great article by called lost uh okc by mj alexander she's this incredible
01:05:08
writer and photographer um so and there's not like a ton of info about this one because it's a real
01:05:14
bummer okay so let's start right after world war ii great in your boom this let's start after mine
01:05:23
ends. Perfect. Yes, we are. Yeah. The post-World War II era saw Oklahoma City become a major hub
01:05:31
in the National Interstate Highway System. Congratulations! Highways. Wait, that's not the 405
01:05:39
that goes all the way to us, is it? That's the magazine. Oh, it's a magazine. Called 405.
01:05:45
It could have been a magazine about highways? Shut up! And they would call it I-45. Remember?
01:05:53
We call it the 405 Oh my God This whole country is so different So different And big Yet we all together And what I okay I love about one of the few things I love about traveling is that you get to learn so much about the city you in just by writing about some horrific thing that happened
01:06:11
So I was like, I need to add some stuff to this story because it'll make it make more sense when it happened, which is the late 70s and 80s.
01:06:18
So the civil rights era dawned after World War II, and downtown Oklahoma City became the site of the start of a new civil rights tactics
01:06:29
when history teacher Clara Luper, who... Guys, she's here tonight. Are you ready?
01:06:40
Waiter, bring out Clara Luper. Bring out Clara Luper. She was the, she had been the first, she was a history teacher.
01:06:47
She had been the first African-American student in the graduate history program at the University of Oklahoma.
01:06:55
The fighting. The fighting I-405? That's right. Fighting freeways. The fighting.
01:07:03
Thank you. Sorry, I fucking really threw you at four. I don't know. We used to have so much fun with the fightings.
01:07:10
And now all of a sudden it's become a real point of stress for us. Let's not do it anymore.
01:07:13
You know what I like better is, and then today's money. Let's do that one instead.
01:07:17
It's way better. Okay. We're going with that one. So in 1950 is when that happened.
01:07:22
And then she led some of her students and her young children from Douglas High School.
01:07:29
Which in today's high school is. Junior high. In the very first sit-in in American history.
01:07:38
Shit! To desegregate. Yes! Yes! the lunch counter at the downtown Katz drugstore
01:07:48
on August 19th, 1956 fuck yeah that's her fucking kids two days later, Katz corporate management
01:07:56
desegregated its lunch counters in three states and the sit-in was adopted throughout the country as a peaceful
01:08:02
protest tactic hell yeah two days pretty cool great job guys you did it Way to go. All you. As the 1960s continued, however, Oklahoma City, when it used to be all
01:08:21
rich fucking oil people and shit. I remember. You remember that? Beautiful buildings, gorgeous city.
01:08:27
Oklahoma City began to decline, and of course, a white flight and suburbanization began to empty
01:08:33
out the central business district and the surrounding areas. It's a similar story at
01:08:38
the time all throughout the U.S. By 1961, the city limits of Oklahoma City had expanded from
01:08:44
80 square miles to 475 square miles as people were like, I'm going to go out over there. Yeah. Right.
01:08:52
And the oil beneath the city had begun to dry up. Property values declined. And the new city leaders then engaged in a disastrous program of urban renewal.
01:09:02
it went really bad sorry guys the plan was to save Oklahoma city and turn it into one of the most
01:09:12
beautiful cities in the western hemisphere that was their plan and they're like ferns, ferns, ferns
01:09:19
that's right cover the city in ferns unfortunately someone else was like knock everything down
01:09:28
and everyone was like okay see unfortunately what they ended up doing was essentially a 12-year demolishing rave
01:09:41
or party where 40 percent of the down of downtown was demolished and it was 530 buildings so there
01:09:50
were all these like beautiful buildings that were like the first the founders of oklahoma city had
01:09:54
built to look like this from europe and that from there and they were gorgeous and these dudes were
01:09:59
like fuck this shit progress everyone you know how they do it um and they were trying to build
01:10:06
the city of tomorrow so this is what it looked like back then um that see that building right
01:10:12
there the tall one no the one in front of it okay yes then they did this to it oh jesus yeah
01:10:20
sucks right and they're like look it's your new water park bring your own slide yeah
01:10:28
yeah so I would have liked to see that building go down though I'm sorry there were some photos of it and I guess
01:10:36
at a lot of the demolitions people would just stare and cry because everyone was like
01:10:44
don't do that and they're like we're rich white men we can do whatever we want sure
01:10:48
so where was I by the 70s with a population of over 350,000 that's correct Urban Renewal had lost the support of many Oklahoma City residents.
01:11:02
They were pissed off that they demolished the majority of the old theater district,
01:11:06
and they tore down hysterical historic structures. And the program was also blamed for forcing retailers and department stores elsewhere.
01:11:19
They were like, we're going to give you a new beautiful building, and then they tore everything down and then didn't have the money to build anything back up.
01:11:24
So they tore down a bunch of stores to make way for a newfangled shopping mall, and then that area stood as a parking lot for 35 years.
01:11:33
Oh, but a great parking lot, everybody. It wasn't one of the cool ones where you park your car and then they bring it up on a ladder.
01:11:40
It's not even that, you know, which sucks. Pretty standard. Oklahoma City's urban renewal program was the most extensive in the state,
01:11:48
and by the early 80s, the city had cleared hundreds of structures in the area. These were downtown at the 200-acre Oklahoma Health Center on the John F. Kennedy neighborhood, which is a
01:12:00
where our story takes place. So of course they're like, we're going to build not the I-405,
01:12:05
the interstate through here. So we're taking all of your houses, goodbye, you know, to of course
01:12:10
the majority of the poor people. Right. So the 1970s to 80s were a period of stagnation for
01:12:16
Oklahoma City and let's see, hold on, with the exception of the Myriad Gardens, there was
01:12:23
little done to, love that place, little was done to improve the inner city or central business
01:12:29
district and so between 1976 and 1986 a killer struck at least three times in Oklahoma City
01:12:38
using the sparsely populated neighborhoods that it emptied to make way for highway construction
01:12:43
it was like free for all oh yeah sorry excuse me um are you emptying the garbage oh I bet someone
01:12:52
barfed. Oh, no. They did? Oh, we're getting nods of yes. Oh, honey. I'm so sorry.
01:13:00
Not you. I'm sorry for the people sitting around. I shouldn't have called it out. I'm sorry.
01:13:09
It's just that when someone snaps out a garbage bag three times, I'm like, what did I not put
01:13:14
the garbage out, Mom? What happened? Am I in trouble? Oh, God. All of you. So sorry.
01:13:22
You know it's now happening at every single show. Like, we get messages the next day where it's like,
01:13:28
I had a great time except for a girl barfed on my shoulder. You guys all get free milk duds in the lobby.
01:13:36
On the theater. Free clam chowder for everybody in that. Stop it. That's not funny, Karen.
01:13:47
That's not funny. I don't like barf. Unlike other people. and therefore that offends me.
01:13:55
Oh. Do you think people barf at Les Miserables Part 2 or whatever? I bet they do.
01:14:03
Who do you think gets more barf, Les Miserables or us? I hope it's us. I feel like we're number one.
01:14:10
I feel like that too. Yeah. I mean, no one will ever be, nobody feel bad. First of all, I can't tell you the places I've barfed.
01:14:19
It was a real passion of mine in the 90s. But I remember doing it onto my own lap in my friend's convertible car.
01:14:30
And she was just like, you've got to be fucking kidding me. It's a convertible. You could have turned your head any direction.
01:14:39
And it would have been taken care of. At least you were being polite. You know, and my dad, we'd be on road trips and we'd get food and he'd say, eat over your clothes.
01:14:48
You were kind of following that ethos. I was just trying to keep it contained. Yeah, yeah.
01:14:53
Well, all I had to do was that. It didn't have to be contained at all. So we feel you over here.
01:15:00
We're feeling it and smelling it a little bit. Okay. Here we are. And we're back.
01:15:09
We're back to the horror of life. You've now described one of the creepiest concepts,
01:15:15
which is a serial killer who is operating in an abandoned neighborhood. That's right.
01:15:21
How have they not made a horror movie out of this? Because that's... I think... I don't know.
01:15:25
I don't know. You're like, have you never heard of... Oh, have you never heard of...
01:15:29
Bandoned in 13. Mrs. Doubtfire. I don't know. I couldn't come up with a good one.
01:15:34
Yes, they loved it. It was perfect. It started there. It's like... It was the...
01:15:40
Okay. 1976. April Fool's Day. Oh. On April 1st, 1976, at around 3 p.m., three oil industry workers are in between shifts
01:15:52
and waiting for a friend to show up, and they're bored. And so as you do, they say to themselves,
01:15:58
let's go check out that abandoned house. I would. I would, too. Yeah. Because that's fun.
01:16:04
But their fun turns terrible. They break into this vacant house. It's Northeast 8th Street.
01:16:11
One of the interesting things, and now this makes sense to me because I was doing all this reading about all this stuff I just talked about.
01:16:16
And one of the things is they paid a fair price for the people who got kicked out of their houses.
01:16:20
That's good. But they only gave them like a month to get out. So there was tons of furniture and like expensive shit left behind.
01:16:27
Oh, you love to go through that shit. I mean, it sucks. It sucks. It sucks. You know, urbanization is bullshit.
01:16:33
But. Drawers, baby. All I want to do is look through other people's drawers. It's all I want.
01:16:41
I don't want there to be an apocalypse. but if there is, I hope everyone leaves everything behind for me to go through.
01:16:46
Yes. So. It's a slice of life. That's right. Okay, so they're in this house at Northeast 8th by Stiles Park.
01:16:58
You guys know it. It's about... It's pronounced Deleus. Shit. It's about one and a half miles from here, so that's fun.
01:17:09
The front door is boarded shut, but the back door is unlocked, so one of the dudes enters through a hole in the side of the house.
01:17:15
I guess he didn't know the back door was unlocked. I guess he didn't know it was abandoned.
01:17:19
Yeah, didn't proofread that. It's dark inside. Someone trips over something. And then the room has the smell of something rancid.
01:17:30
One of them, they see a popcorn bucket in the corner and one of them knocks it over
01:17:36
and inside the popcorn box is a severed head. head head head so this is like a popcorn like a bucket from the movie theater i think so
01:17:50
jesus that gonna ruin your movie going experience into the future that right shit um they quickly realize it at the head of a woman and so they call the police The police think it a joke because it April Fool Day
01:18:08
They come out anyways and realize it's fucking, it would be a terrible joke, and it's not a fucking joke.
01:18:15
They find other parts of the body strewn about the house, including what the dude had tripped over,
01:18:22
and realize it's the body of a female. So her, let's see, da-da-da-da-da-da, okay.
01:18:29
So the police aren't able to identify the woman, and they try to compare her teeth to dental records of several missing women,
01:18:36
but nothing matches, and she's classified as a Jane Doe. A sculptor works with police to produce a clay reconstruction,
01:18:43
but it doesn't come up with any leads, so that goes cold. Three years later, on April 19th, 1979,
01:18:49
Okay. A couple kids are playing basketball. When a dog runs up with a severed head in its mouth.
01:19:04
That one person's clapping like this. Ma'am. Ma'am, stop it. That's why we're here.
01:19:15
She's a therapist and she's like, get those children into therapy. And one of those children was LeBron James.
01:19:26
Because that's how you are inspired. We have to overcome things to get to good places.
01:19:32
He's never stopped playing basketball since then. He drives him. He sees it at night and during the day.
01:19:40
Jesus. A dog runs up. If that wasn't a horror movie, everyone in the audience would be like,
01:19:44
this is corny. I have to get out of here. Stupid. That would never happen. And you can just imagine what it's like.
01:19:50
It's, you know, probably the neighborhood of abandoned places. Oh, you may. Okay.
01:19:57
The cops come, and they are like, oh, shit. And they canvas the area. They don't find anything else.
01:20:03
They come back the next morning to just be like, let's just double check that. And they find more body parts in places that they weren't there the day before.
01:20:10
Oh, yeah. As if someone had crept in the night before and fucking left them for them to find.
01:20:18
They're called back repeatedly through the next two weeks as body parts keep turning up,
01:20:23
and they're found wrapped in newspaper and in brown wrapping paper as if it's a butcher,
01:20:30
hence the Oklahoma City butcher. And they realize it's the body of a woman, and the body parts keep turning up until May 1, 1979,
01:20:40
when the rest of the body is found in the area. A week later, fingerprints positively identify the woman
01:20:47
as 22-year-old Arlie Bell Killian, family members tell police that they'd seen Arlie just hours
01:20:53
before she had been found. Even though she is involved in sex work, police immediately suspect
01:20:59
that it's not someone on the street, it's one of her male relatives who, there were newspaper
01:21:05
accounts that he had escaped from a mental hospital the same day of Arlie's murder, and he had a
01:21:11
history of violent behavior, including attacking things with a hatchet, including his grandmother.
01:21:19
He didn't kill her. Sorry. Isn't this just Friday the 13th? Oh, shit. Is it? Or is that Halloween?
01:21:34
It might be Halloween. Halloween. They're kind of all the same. All right. One would argue.
01:21:41
That's horrifying. Police records, they look into him because they're like, this has got to be the dude, right?
01:21:49
But it turns out that he had been re-arrested and brought back to the hospital a week before the last of the remains were found.
01:21:58
So he couldn't have dumped the pieces himself. And so they were like, not him. Goodbye.
01:22:05
Seven years go by. Wow. And on March 6, 1986, a mile from where the last body was found.
01:22:12
So it's all in this really small little area. Seven years later, a leg and a torso from a female are found in an alley behind a house.
01:22:21
And a week later, a homeless person finds the head of the next victim behind a house just down the street from there.
01:22:29
The victim is identified by two tattoos on her shoulder as 22-year-old Tina Sanders.
01:22:34
and she had been last seen the day before she died. A month later, police publicly link these two deaths
01:22:44
and the Jane Doe from 1976. So they're like, everyone, you should freak out. Something's going on here.
01:22:50
It's big. It's big and horrible. The Jane Doe and Killian have distinctive incisions in their face
01:22:58
that the killer had done, so they're similar, and the body parts of both these latest two victims
01:23:04
had intentionally been scattered in different parts. And two were known to be sex workers
01:23:11
and they're all young Native American women with a similar physical appearance. Each death happened in the spring
01:23:19
and there was evidence that the killer took his time with each of the victims. And early reports say that the killer's a medical student or physician
01:23:27
because they're like, the cuts were perfect And then the detective Eastridge, who became a cold case detective of this, is like, no, they're not.
01:23:35
They're crude and sloppy. So it's not that. That was just like a theory that came out, basically?
01:23:41
Yeah, you know how that shit used. Yeah, yeah. Rumor mail. It's suspected that the killer, now named the Oklahoma City Butcher, might have been in the military
01:23:49
or even in jail during those periods between when he killed people. But the linked murders don receive a lot of media attention because of the marginalized victims and all the cases it runs cold Let see Okay
01:24:05
Sorry. Okay, so enter Andra Medina in 1993. She comes forward to report her cousin missing.
01:24:16
She had been missing for the past 17 years. Her cousin, Kathy Lynn Shackleford, had been 18 years old and a member of the Sack and Fox tribe.
01:24:26
And Andra's mother had always told her that it wasn't her business to inquire about her cousin's disappearance.
01:24:32
She would leave it to the mom and dad and the family. But as soon as Andra's mom died, she's like, fuck this shit, and goes to the police.
01:24:39
And is like, I'm going to find my cousin. And so in 1993, she calls the police to report her cousin missing.
01:24:47
and Sergeant Norma Adams from Oklahoma City remembers a photo she had seen hanging by
01:24:56
in the police station and it matched Andra's description of her cousin. So police can't find
01:25:02
dental information for the cousin. They soon learned that her dental charts had been destroyed
01:25:07
in a fire at her dentist's clinic. But her medical records from the Sac and Fox tribe,
01:25:13
they're not able to provide a dental match either. So they send DNA to Cal State Berkeley
01:25:19
with the sisters, the cousins' sisters. It matches. Okay. The test proved that it's a perfect match, and the woman in the abandoned house is positively
01:25:32
identified 17 years later as Kathy Lynn Shackleford. Kathy had run away in June of 1975 when she was
01:25:41
17, less than a year before her body was found. That was the first body that we saw in the abandoned
01:25:47
house. And she's heard from two months before her death. And Kathy's loved ones do start searching
01:25:55
for her right away, but they don't know why she didn't contact them, but people tell them that
01:26:02
they had seen her around the country. So they don't think anything is wrong. They just think
01:26:06
she's not contacting them. And her family members talk about her as someone who always had a smile
01:26:13
on her face and was very caring and always initiated hugs. And now that she's identified
01:26:18
her family is able to bury her among her relatives in sack and fox tradition in a Native American
01:26:24
ceremony in Shawnee. In 1988, city council members, okay, so that's that story. Then we're going,
01:26:35
Okay, I'm a bad... Good, you're doing good. In 1988, back to this urban renewal bullshit,
01:26:42
city council members admitted that the urban renewal plan that was supposed to make Oklahoma City a city of tomorrow
01:26:49
had not worked out as they hoped, and a councilman declared, downtown is dead and we helped kill it.
01:26:55
Oh! That's how you fucking take responsibility, I think. Shit! You take it all. Yeah.
01:27:01
and it wasn't until the maps initiative in 1993 good job guys that the city began to rebuild itself
01:27:14
so many of the northeast streets and neighborhoods that the Oklahoma City butcher had stocked are long gone and they've been raised and turned into
01:27:21
gentrified lofts and upstool eateries probably I saw three breweries today within a one block radius
01:27:30
So I'm guessing. Pare, pare, pare, pare. Yeah. Not talking shit. I went to one. And it's all brightly lit, regularly patrolled areas now.
01:27:44
The Oklahoma City butcher has never been caught. Really? Or identified. Sorry, guys.
01:27:51
Well, and now this is where we turn to you. We're going to walk you all home tonight.
01:27:57
to your computers where you're going to solve this crime. Yes, please. And the murders of Kathy Shackelford, Arlie Bell Killian,
01:28:06
and Tina Sanders remain unsolved to this day. Wow. Detective Kyle Eastridge, who was now the cold case detective,
01:28:14
he's retired now, he said that it's interesting that the first two murders are almost exactly three years apart,
01:28:19
and then the last known victim is seven years later, so he wonders if there's a victim in between those two
01:28:26
that hasn't been identified as part of this spree yet. He also says that despite the two of the women being known sex workers,
01:28:36
they were just doing what they had to do to get by. And Kathy's cousin, Andra Medina, who helped get her identified,
01:28:43
says that her family tries to think she's in a better place now, but sometimes she wonders who this person is,
01:28:49
and is he still alive, and they just want to know his identity. and that is the fucking Kansas City
01:28:56
butcher story Oklahoma City oh my god I'm so sorry shit you're right at the finish line
01:29:06
you're right there and that was the Oklahoma City butcher I'm so sorry I can't believe
01:29:18
well I can believe I've never heard it but I have never heard that it's so fucking disturbing.
01:29:24
It's so disturbing. We always try to avoid doing stories like that which I didn't do tonight
01:29:29
because it's just so horrible and it's marginalized women and it's unsolved. But it's crazy that we haven't heard about that
01:29:38
all the fucking time. And now that this insane DNA bullshit's going on maybe he can be found
01:29:44
and taken in. Yeah, let's hope. Should we do a quick hometown? Do we have time for a hometown?
01:29:52
Let's do it real fast. Now we have before you start pointing Yo yo yo yo yo yo Number three There it is Hey hey hey hey hey
01:30:07
Woo. Yeah. I'm all hopped up from the eight ball I did backstage. He does listen to us.
01:30:15
Yay. He does listen. He's never heard of a cigarette before. Holy shit. Oh, my God.
01:30:21
Look at the right there. Yeah. Wow. oh my god it goes up there uh you guys climb up there
01:30:33
i'm gonna be right down there under that exit sign okay uh so no one who has puked or been
01:30:39
puked on please okay yeah that's a good that's a good roll we really do not yet here's the thing too when everyone's pointing at someone and that someone is
01:30:54
cowering in their chair. She doesn't want to be. I do want to tell you one rule.
01:31:01
One rule. I'd stop yelling. Just so I can tell you this one rule, which is, you know all the rules.
01:31:11
We say it every single time. This one seems to be coming up over and over. And I'm starting to feel bad for the people.
01:31:18
We want it to be local. We want it to be local. It can be in the state, or it could be nearby Oklahoma City,
01:31:26
but we'd love it to be in Oklahoma City. But I swear to fucking God, if you roll up here with some Kansas City bullshit...
01:31:35
Okay. We should start kicking people off if they do that, right? Yeah, that's right.
01:31:41
Oh my God, I hate this so much. I hate it, I hate it. Karen, do you want to do it?
01:31:46
With the sign that says Stephen on it, with the we, yeah, yeah. Go to Vince right there.
01:31:51
that way that way oh they're coming up oh no it's two i don't know okay turn the lights down this is so crazy terrifying it's truly so crazy
01:32:05
are you mad it's two people yeah i'll give him a chance i'll give him a chance i i saw her mouth something about my mom
01:32:17
So I feel like it's... Okay. Okay. What's your name? Hi, Kelsey. Hi. What's her name?
01:32:27
Hi. It's Dee Dee and Kelsey, everybody. Mother and daughter. Mother and daughter.
01:32:33
Come here. Yeah, because we're Wheatwood. I have to be on this one. Wheatwood. Got it.
01:32:40
And this is... That's my graduation cap. Doing good so far. This is my graduation cap.
01:32:44
My last day of school ever was today. Where'd you go? What'd you do? I can't either.
01:32:48
Dental hygiene. Dental hygiene! We can't hear. She graduated from college. She graduated from dental hygiene school today.
01:32:56
Nice. It's a dental theme. We should stand over here so we can hear. Okay, yeah, yeah.
01:33:02
This is hard. Hi, guys. Hello. Where are you from? We're from Southwest Oklahoma, right outside Lawton.
01:33:11
Nice. Take it. And my name is not every DD is crazy. Okay. You say that. You always say all the duties are creepy.
01:33:19
Don't start defensive. It's a bad look. Okay. So this story is very hometown for us.
01:33:28
We live in Southwest Oklahoma right outside Lawton. And in 1999, Kelsey's dad and I bought 160 acres to build our home.
01:33:36
So we closed on it, started building our house. And people started, it's about 30 minutes from where we had been living.
01:33:42
And people started saying, hey, you know about the mass murder on your land, right?
01:33:47
I forgive you. I forgive you. I'm not mad there's two people on stage right now.
01:33:54
I couldn't be happier. Everything is great. Okay, go ahead. So on March the 5th, 1916,
01:34:05
there was a family that lived on our 160 acres named the O'Kanes that were all murdered. And
01:34:13
what happened was on a Monday morning the farm hand came to go to work knocked on the door nobody
01:34:20
was roused and went inside and inside he found everyone dead there was the dad except the dad
01:34:29
so there was gurgling there was a grandpa the mom the dad and five children one of them was four
01:34:37
months old four month old baby that the mother was holding and i will tell you that these newspaper
01:34:43
articles that we found spared no detail yeah they get into it very gruesome very gruesome so
01:34:50
basically the mother and baby were dead in the bed she was clutching the baby the baby um
01:34:58
throat was slit no more baby talk no no it was horrible let dd tell her story let me tell my
01:35:06
damn story it's on my land sorry are you surprised that her button says i'm a karen i am a karen
01:35:20
and you're a georgia that's right so they there were two boys and two girls the two boys both were
01:35:28
murdered in their beds they had bullet wounds in their heads the two girls were murdered but they
01:35:33
didn't get bullets. They just got bludgeoned and the like. And the mother and the baby were dead.
01:35:39
But the dad, oh, and the grandpa was also dead. But the dad, because they're all O'Kanes and it's
01:35:45
senior and junior and, you know. Right. He was dead. I mean, he wasn't quite dead. He was bleeding,
01:35:51
but he still had a heartbeat. He still had a little bit of breathing. And of course, this is
01:36:00
Were there phones then? No. Oh, I don't know. Here, I'll look it up on your phone if there were phones or not.
01:36:08
There was no signal. There was no signal. Yeah, the Wi-Fi was really bad back then.
01:36:14
Kelsey said Siri. So basically, we had heard that initially the farmhand had been accused
01:36:23
and had been cleared through forensics, but we actually couldn't find that in the newspapers.
01:36:27
so everybody immediately thought it was the dad they had all been playing cards with some families
01:36:33
the day before all day sunday they were well respected family but they just really couldn't
01:36:38
decide anything else but then there was also part of the story was that the grandpa was a real
01:36:43
crankenstein and that is a grumpy monster yeah and so they actually thought that maybe
01:36:53
yeah moms how are you doing Kelsey she loves me a lot she loves you so much years of this
01:37:03
so they they there is speculation that the grandpa killed all of them because they were
01:37:09
actually wanting to send the grandpa to the home a home and that the dad came in found everybody
01:37:14
dead and he committed suicide but and then also they had a big problem with everybody wanted to
01:37:21
see the bodies. Y'all talk about that all the time. And they took all of these bodies to the
01:37:27
mortuary and they had to like lock the doors because there was such a crowd of people just
01:37:33
wanting to get in and see the bodies. And so they were all buried together except for the grandpa
01:37:38
and all of their coffins were white except for the grandpa, right? And thanks Kelsey for coming
01:37:44
with me You not done yet I nearly done And anyway so they eventually said the father did it And that is the story of the O mass murder on my land And you can still see in our pasture where the home was
01:38:02
Yes. But it is on the other side of the creek. Don't come over. Do they know? Give me the address.
01:38:09
Do they know for sure that the dad did it? Probably. Maybe. Okay. Go. So there was like a wash basin with blood and fingerprints on a towel, and his hands were clean.
01:38:20
So that's all we have to go off of. Okay. We say yes. Yeah. It was the dad. The dad did it.
01:38:25
Yeah. Okay. And the ghosts? There's no ghosts. We don't go over there real often.
01:38:30
I don't play with my Ouija board anymore. But the cows like it. I bet they do. The cows are fine with it.
01:38:36
Oh, my God. Guys, Dee Dee and Kelsey, everybody. They killed it. Thank you. Thank you.
01:38:41
Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
01:38:44
Thank you. Oh, wow. Good job. Congratulations. Good job. Nice to meet you. Bye. Yeah.
01:38:55
Great job, Oklahoma City. Dee Dee and Kelsey really changed my mind about two people coming up at once.
01:39:02
I'm converted. I thought it was going to be a thing where it's like, anyway, we were in a thing.
01:39:10
I like to snap judge. fuck that was yeah a perfect show i feel like yeah okay for me for my enjoyment of it even edits
01:39:23
out me saying the wrong city oh i'm sorry and this part too that was a perfect show do you know that
01:39:30
we make lots of jokes about it but it does break our hearts when you fuck things up because we
01:39:35
really do want to give you the presentation that we know you would be able to give if you were the
01:39:40
one doing it We understand that the scrutiny is very high because these are things you poured over and that you know by heart And that alone gives us the shits when we do these things It more pressure than we act like it is
01:39:57
Please focus on that girl puking and not me. I would love that. When you remember tonight, mistakes that were made tonight.
01:40:07
Not me. It was all her. No, this is amazing. Thank you guys for welcoming us in the biggest fucking theater.
01:40:21
Thank you to all the people who very actively and angrily complained that we hadn't come here, that we weren't in the Midwest enough.
01:40:32
It works. We love it. It works. We love it. We are so freaking hashtag blessed that you guys support us so much.
01:40:40
it's crazy I mean this whole ride is crazy and we can't believe that we get to do this
01:40:46
that we have a freaking book coming out that you guys it's really bananas and we're so
01:40:54
appreciative for everything you guys have done for us yeah it's very I feel like
01:40:58
right now we're coming into a time where we can actually start feeling what's happening to us without being so
01:41:04
freaked out all the time you'll see when it happens to you it's so crazy when your podcast explodes.
01:41:10
But the coolest part, I think, is that every time we know, no matter what else is going on,
01:41:16
we come out on this stage that we're talking to a bunch of our friends. And that feeling that we get to be up here
01:41:22
and doing the thing that we like the best and that you guys are here for it is so fucking satisfying for us.
01:41:31
And it really makes it like, this is kind of the cherry on top of the rest of the Sundays
01:41:36
when we get to be out here with you guys. So thank you so much for having us Yep And of course of course stay saved and do God missions
01:41:50
always. Please. But then also stay sexy. And go get harder! Bye, Oklahoma City! Thank you!
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