178 - Live at the Folketeatret in Oslo | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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We're back in Norway. What the shit? We didn't know if we were going to make it.

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That's true. Our luggage almost did it. That's okay. We've been up since 3.30 this morning.

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Traveling. So it's going to be an experimental show. It's going to be fun. It's going to, stuff's going to come out.

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It's going to get a little weird. My pants are up real high. Norway, I'm wearing pajamas.

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I'm wearing pajamas. I've never been here before. I've never been here before. You've never been here before?

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You've never been in this headspace before? I've never. Oh, I've been in pajama headspace so many times.

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Oh, okay. But to visit Norway for the first time and show up in this shit is not the coolest.

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Not the ideal, but thank you. Yeah, but it's going to be a show like no other. Right?

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I hope so. Don't quote me on that. Stephen, cut that. Cut that from their brains so they don't remember that.

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They're like, we were promised a show like no other. And it kind of sounded just like every other fucking live show I've ever heard.

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It was like every other podcast I've ever heard. Seriously. But they were wearing pajamas.

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We did. So we had a show in Dublin last night, and then we get back to the hotel at midnight,

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and then it's like, okay, you're going to have to meet in the lobby at what was it?

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3 fucking 30 in the morning. Excuse me. And so we slept for an hour or two, right?

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Here and there. Yep. And then we got on a plane. I drank coffee. That was fucking stupid, because then I was just like wired for sound the whole time.

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We also had our layover in Amsterdam. Right. So it wasn't like a direct, it wasn't like, oh, you're super tired, but you'll get there and you'll get to the hotel and then you'll relax.

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We're not complaining. Let us complain to you. We just want you to know what our journey, you need to know our journey so you understand why my hair is wet right now.

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It's wet. We don't. Don't encourage her. Do not encourage that because I'll start rolling out here in a bed.

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I absolutely. Just wrapped in a fucking comforter. Nothing else. Well, I was, so anyway, we get, when we finally got here, it was like, okay, so we now have,

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what, three hours to basically take a nap, get back up, finish our murders? Yeah.

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Do our homework, get dressed. I wish there was video on us of us all standing at the conveyor belts of the luggage, Vince,

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Karen, and I, just standing there watching as it's slow, every, the bags were coming

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out, the bags were coming out. And we were all just like bleary eyed and tired. And then Vince goes, I feel a lot better if at least one of our bags would come out right now.

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Not one. I was like, oh, shit. Not a single one. And there's four of them. Do we have video?

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Oh, look back. Here's what's fun. I took a surprise video of you, Georgia. Throw it up there.

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And then it was that daunting thing of, of course it didn't make it. And then I was like, I get to wear this shit.

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I was so happy for this moment. I can wear the clothes I've been wearing for 40 hours.

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Oh, that's true. Dude, I need to burn my fucking travel clothes. Like, legit. Now I feel so guilty because my mother used to give me so much shit when I would travel.

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And she would see me dressed like this. And she'd go, you're not going to wear that on the plane, are you?

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She would always say that. And I'm like, Mom, nobody wears pillbox hats anymore.

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Like, that era is over. Dress up for the plane. dress up for the dentist. It's over.

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We're not doing that anymore. Did she know how fucking awful Air Flight was at that point I don know what she was saying I think she just wanted to make sure I represented the Kilgarefs correctly internationally The passports would be like

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oh, you're Pat's daughter. Oh, oh. I better call all of her friends behind her back

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and tell her the things you've been wearing. I mean, these wouldn't be the shoes.

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Even if I was going to do pajamas, I wouldn't have worn these shoes. Sure, sure, sure.

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Also, sorry, the blow dryer i brought here works in america and i don't know what the fuck

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your two-pronged weird shit is i'm sick of it she's not blaming you it's just a weird coincidence

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just this hair it needs to be trained before we walk out into a large theater it's important

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do you want to know my priorities this is how this is what i'm like uh get here fucking exhausted

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need to finish my murder blah blah blah uh still found time to go to a fucking pharmacy to buy some

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shit I can't buy in the U.S. What'd you get? Do they sell cocaine here? Yeah. I got like a,

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I have this like list. I put an Instagram photo up and I was like, this is what I got to get.

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Cause you guys have like the harsh shit and you know, here and I'm like, I put it on my fucking

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face. Even though it's illegal where I live. I need it. Nothing is working. Uh, so I made a list

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and I was like, what are you, what are you by when you're out of the States or whatever? And

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there was a list of 300 comments. I fucking went through every single one and screen grabbed the

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ones that tell me. And then I fucking went back in and I fucking like, it's, there's something

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going on in my head. It's my mom saying, you're going to look like that. So I went in and I bought

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some shit. Well, what I love is that in the airport in Amsterdam, you came, I of course made

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a break for Starbucks immediately. I was like, bye. I don't know. You don't care.

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went to get. She did the nicest thing of, are you cool if I get, and I'm like, get the fuck out of

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here. I'm fucking shopping. Every man for himself. And I, because I had been drinking so much tea

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over the couple of days, but I hadn't had a nice, really burnt cup of Starbucks coffee in so long.

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So I went to get that. And then we back up at the gate and Georgia just walks up and throws me a tub

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of like salve. And I look at it and it's like for nappy rash or whatever. I'm like, what are we

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We're putting on our face. You guys know pseudo cream? Fuck yeah. We look over and it's the oldest woman in the world.

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I love it. It works great. She's just dumping a tub of it on her head. Hurry. Fix me.

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Hell yeah. That's what everyone's getting when I come back from this fucking big tub of nappy cream.

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And now what's that nappy cream going to do for me? I mean, what can it not do? What does it do?

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I don't know. It's the best. It's just the best and be quiet about it. I don't even know yet.

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Okay. Acne. Acne. I'll give you acne. Okay, great. Then you're down to earth and people can approach you because you have acne.

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Because, you know, people are scared to talk to us because we're so fucking hot.

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Oh, my God. Because our skin is so clear. Don't do that. Do not pander back to our pandering to you.

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Keep doing it. Keep doing it. We need this right now. Please. We need it. You're encouraging it.

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More, more, more. acne. I don't know. Other shit. What do you have? Put it on there. Adult onset acne. Yeah.

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Any kind of rash? Lips? Dry lips? You know, because they don't make anything else for that.

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Yes, I want to put nappy cream where chapstick goes. That's exactly what I want. It's the thing

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of like, you know, all the ladies were like a year ago, we were like coconut oil everywhere.

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Now it's nappy cream everywhere. It's the new thing. It could be a prank. Oh, shit.

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I didn't think about that. This could be some kind of a YouTube prank that some 20-year-old boys are pulling on us.

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They're like, look at him wipe that shit all over their face. No, but beauty bloggers told me.

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It was beauty bloggers. If you can't trust a beauty blogger, I don't know how that ends.

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They're like, we don't have those here. Everything I say, just imagine everyone in the audience is like, we don't have that here.

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McDonald's? No. We don't have that here. I want to apologize to you that my breath smells like blue cheese that I ate backstage,

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even though I had just brushed my teeth and there's cheese, so of course I'm like, cheese!

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Fuck, it was really good cheese, you guys. Good job. You do that well. Congratulations.

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My breath smells like a layover in Amsterdam. Oh, by the way, speaking of, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.

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Oh, yes. Thank you. That's Karen Kilgariff. That's Georgia Hardstart. Thank you.

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We're in fucking Oslo. We're in Oslo, Norway. I wanted to come here. I mean, obviously forever,

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but then one of my favorite bands in 2007 put a song out called Oslo in the summertime,

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and I was like, I want to go to Montreal. I want to go there. That's how you should plan all your travels.

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Holiday in Cambodia. summertime in oslo that's right i holiday in cambodia we've got to go to cambodia should we wait okay because i need to tell oslo a quick story okay

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because see we got here so we got here at three went straight into our hotel rooms we've been

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there the whole time yeah so it's not like we can tell you fun cool stuff we did or like can

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you believe this osloian said this to us i can talk about the pharmacy oh you can that's it okay

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No, no, no. Go ahead. Oh, I just want to say I don't want to lie. I did leave the hotel room.

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Oh, okay. Yeah. Did you get more nappy cream? I don't even know with this fucking point. I was

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just like that the name I saw That the name I saw I put it all in my basket Left we were only on this tour for three days I cannot shut my suitcase I know How are you going to fit any of this

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I took my carry-on suitcase, put it inside a huge suitcase. Oh. Zipped that motherfucker.

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Nice. I have two suitcases, because I know myself. There's one thing about me, it's that I know myself.

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Does that mean I also have two suitcases? No. Ah, ah, you said it in front of everybody.

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Yes. You have to be a teammate with me. Well, I was going to put all our things that we get, the treats and stuff, because when we went to Australia, we got 400 boxes of Tim Tams.

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Because I fucking stupidly said it on the podcast. Bring me all the cookies, which is true.

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Bring me all the fucking cookies. But then they actually did. But then they did a night.

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We had to bring them home. It happened. And we bought this suitcase. I'm tired. Go on.

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No, no. So you can't lean over. Go on. This is the stage. The stage. Oh, you were telling a story and I interrupted.

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No, no, no. Because it's just, this is basically the only story I have to tell the people of Oslo.

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But I'm excited about it. Because one of the most irritating people I've ever known was my college roommate and Kristen.

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And she was... Naming names. They might know her. She's here with a single tear rolling down her cheek.

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And nappy cream all over her face. God, she looks like she's 12. she was so obsessed with Norway she talked about it all the time we lived in Sacramento California

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which is essentially a flood plain with a sun lamp directly over the top of it it's the worst

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city in the world and I guess Kristen went uh came here uh on a summer break one time and when

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she came back okay so she talked like this for real we've gotten accused of vocal fry yeah this

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with girls from California and talk like this. Ah, for sure. But my roommate, Kristen, really did talk like that.

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So it took her forever to say anything. She'd be like, you guys. Norway is amazing.

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How come she sounds like a little old lady? She was lazy? I don't know. So she would talk about Norway all the time,

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and she learned to make a kind of sandwich here that she'd be like, you have to try this sandwich.

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And so anytime my other roommate, there was like six of us that lived in one apartment or whatever,

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but we all ended up, she drove us insane. And so anytime we want to talk shit about her,

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we didn't say anything specific. We just say, Norway is amazing. That was the...

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I love it. That was the cue line of like, meet me in the other room so I can tell you what fucked up shit she just did.

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I am going out of my fucking head. Do you know how amazing Norway is? come with me. I'm going to tell you about it. I'll make you a sandwich. Oh no, Norway got thrown

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under the bus. So I've been hearing about you guys for so long and I hear that you're amazing.

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But for a Kristen in your face, Karen, when we were on the fucking plane over here,

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we're just sitting there like normal people in this like lovely sewer. It just hands us the

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cutest package. It was like, do you want a sandwich? And like, that's my, that's the only

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question I ever want to be asked in my fucking life. Like if Vince had proposed to me by saying,

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do you want a sandwich forever? I'd be like, yes. You bite into the sandwich, the rings inside.

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That's a good idea, actually. That is a great idea. Like, that's a great idea. You said good,

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and I was like, no. No. They hand us the, it was just cheese on bread, but it made my fucking

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day. It, so it's, she wasn't wrong. No, you know what? I owe her an apology. Come out here,

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Kristen, she's everybody's cousin. They were really good sandwiches. What were they?

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Oh, the one she made? It was brown bread. I think she put like red peppers and some weird shit on it.

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I was always walking away from her. She drove me insane. You knew the first two ingredients and then you were like, goodbye.

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You gotta go. You're taking too long to express yourself. I need it to be snappy.

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And also she ever said was that it was amazing. Amazing. I think she went to a festival in the summer.

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And it was amazing. Cool. Okay, now we sit down? Okay, let's sit down. Okay. Look at those.

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Thank you. Oh, these are really weird chairs, man. It's perfect for our vibe right now.

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It fits right in. It fits in the vibe. I have to say, it's much easier to get up on this chair, not in my insane dress and high heels and Spanx.

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It's easier to do everything, right? I just realized this is very special. It's really not.

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This is the first time I've worn pants on stage for a live show. Ever? Ever. And not worn a dress.

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And I feel like myself for the first time in my fucking life. I think you need to take a walk.

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I think you need to take a walk across the stage. And I can. Walk it across. Yeah.

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I mean. Yes. The freedom. The freedom I have. To move around. Hope I don't have camel toe.

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But otherwise, shit's great. That only adds. Sex sells, baby. Oh, don't you guys know?

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In the U.S., that's a new accessory is extreme camel toe. Medically dangerous camel toe.

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I'll show you this. Show us. Yes, I am wearing pajamas. Thank you. No, it's okay.

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My pajamas have pockets. That's right. Amen. That's right. Thank you so much. I bought them at the Gap.

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I mean, look. I mean, listen. Look and listen about my 2001 Georgia hair What are these called When you pull your hair Wisps Some wisps on the side Is this still in Was it ever Listen Look and listen

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We've told you. We've told you many times. Oh, Stephen's not here, even though I've been screaming at him.

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Oh, that's where you go, oh, and then he feels good about when he listens later.

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Stephen! They're like, we actually don't care. Norway's the one place, Stephen, that hates you.

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What does she do? We just don't feel, here in Norway, we don't feel an affinity towards Stephen at all.

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There's nothing that draws us to him. We've seen mustaches. What'd she say? I don't know, but she's pissed.

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Some girl over there is like, yes, we do! How dare you? He's amazing! My cats think so, too.

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Yeah, that's right. Oh, he's sending me so many photos of the cats, man. It's like, how is he so good at feline photography?

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He might need to go into cat portraiture after. I'm kidding. This podcast. That, and I feel like he could make a fucking killing on pet sitting now, because everyone

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in the comments, whenever he posts about the cats, is, come to wherever and watch my cats.

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You're the best cat uncle, you know? So, like. Steven, if you can hear me right now, please don't aim to be a cat uncle.

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That's the most upsetting phrase I've ever heard for a young man. Cat people understand that.

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But a cat, it's like being a cat person is one thing. A cat uncle? Well, he's their uncle.

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He's kind of touching the cat weird over in the corner. Oh, no. Stop it. Karen has not had good experiences with uncles.

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I'm so tired. I'm just doing cheap comedy. What else is there? My coffee's gone.

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Oh, no. Keep drinking it. Keep drinking it forever. Okay. Fuck, man. Uh-oh. It's going to be fun as we're going to fucking get wired on caffeine and then not be able to sleep tonight.

00:19:49

Yes. That's really fun. And this is the thing that we do. And we text each other at 3 in the morning.

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Like, I can't sleep. Can you sleep? No. And then we just, like, right back and forth.

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I'm like, I can't believe this is our lives. This is so crazy. Life is so crazy.

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And then gif, gif, gif. Did you see this thing? There's a thing about turtles on Channel 9.

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Yeah. Forensic Files is on. And that's it. That's our life. That's our life. You know what's gross?

00:20:10

To be sweating with wet hair. It's not a good combination. That is the worst feeling.

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To get the thing where, like, you look fine. and then you lift your bangs and it's like wet bangs.

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Yeah, and I also have the thing where like, as the palest type of person, my scalp just wants to burst through my hair

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at any given moment. So it always is like, is her hair wet? Is it greasy? Is she balding?

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Why is it not good up there? So like, as we were standing backstage and they're like, you have about three minutes.

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And I was just like, okay, I'll just keep brushing my hair over and over and pretend that's drying my hair.

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Oh, God. No, I get it. That's why my hair's in a fucking ponytail right now. Look.

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Listen. Why can't we stop saying that? This is the most time we've said that live.

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What? What? I don't know. Look, I think we're going to do a great show. I think so, too.

00:21:05

We can eat a minute. Give us a minute. I think we have. Oh, thank you. If we could just...

00:21:10

If you don't mind us taking a private moment after you've paid and waited to come and see this

00:21:17

and we'll just have a conversation ourselves. What I think is great is really anything's possible now

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because we're not bound by the strictures of society. I don't know what I'm saying.

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Space-time continuum doesn't exist in Norway, right? You don't have it here. You guys are granted immunity from...

00:21:37

We've time-hopped over here. Yep. And now we're all in a space together and we're about to discover what it's like

00:21:44

to talk about true crime in a comedic way. By the way, if you came here with a person who loves this podcast

00:21:52

and you've never heard it before. And you're kind of a grump in general. Like people would describe you as a grump.

00:21:58

If you cross your arms a lot, your first reaction is always, I don't think so. We're going to need you to get the fuck out because this is a very...

00:22:10

the back half of the room leaves wait we didn't mean it no no we'll win you over my pajamas

00:22:18

you went i went first last night so i go first tonight is that cool you good yes all right i

00:22:30

think it'll be good okay great so we always talk about how when we go to other uh countries and

00:22:36

even even states in the u.s to tour it's so fucking weird because you're like what murder

00:22:40

should i do and then just insane murder that everyone there knows and it's like their murder

00:22:44

and you've never fucking heard of it it's really kind of awesome yeah um and so you guys have one

00:22:49

that i hadn't heard of and then i looked into it and i was like how are we all not talking about

00:22:53

this everywhere love it what a great start this is the isdal woman they know it you guys

00:23:03

That's rad. You've been holding back on us Can I just say and God bless Dublin we had two awesome shows amazing kickoff in Dublin

00:23:13

But both nights both times I was like and now I'm gonna do Billy in the bowl Sight and that's what it sounded nothing

00:23:24

Just and then one girl. Yeah, just happy for her. She felt that she felt that that was that was a cousin of mine

00:23:30

And she felt bad for me. And she's like, we are all proud of you, Karen. So I love it.

00:23:36

Yeah. So once I started looking into this, I was like, well, fuck that. What's the one guy's name that I did before?

00:23:42

You know that guy. Nope. You know. Okay. I'll remember it. Was he on this tour? Nope.

00:23:52

Oh. He was a... You're saying in the hundreds of episodes we've done? One of the guys I did.

00:23:57

Oh. Oh, it was the... Something man. Somerset man. No one yelled it, and I'm pointing out in the audience.

00:24:03

Oh, the Australian guy? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Somerset man. Yes, yes, yes. It's got whisperings of this.

00:24:07

Okay. When I went to look to study this, there is currently a podcast going on that's like,

00:24:14

we're going to fucking solve this motherfucking case. Yes. It's good. It's Norwegian journalist.

00:24:19

Oh, here's what we need to do real quick. This is important, actually. I forgot this.

00:24:24

This is key. You two from Norway? No. You are? Okay. You two. Right here? You're our translator.

00:24:30

okay and so everyone's going to want to scream at us when we get every word wrong and it's going to

00:24:36

be a lot like you guys got to give us a little room for this one let's not anticipate something

00:24:43

negative okay we'll anticipate the positive but then if something bad happens yeah what's your

00:24:48

name cecilia cecilia wait are you norwegian that sounded like an irish accent uh-oh karen suspect

00:24:57

uh-oh oh this whole thing just turned cecilia you're the one that's going to say the name

00:25:04

properly after we say it wrong were you lying can you do it can you do it okay hold on

00:25:13

are you on some kind of a hallucinogenic drug right now that might impede your ability or make it better just a tiny bit

00:25:21

A tiny bit's fine. Yeah, that's fine. We all are. We've been pumping it into the theater.

00:25:30

Oh, and also, if we say something that is factually incorrect and everyone in the room knows it and feels uncomfortable for us, please just put your hand up.

00:25:39

We'll call on you, Cecilia, and then we'll go to you for facts. But we have nothing but positive.

00:25:44

We have nothing but rethink. Love for you, baby. Yeah. Okay. Norwegian journalist Merit Higraf.

00:25:51

That's, yeah. Is your name Cecilia? Anyone named Cecilia here can do it. You're opening it up to the Cecilias of the room?

00:26:00

The Cecilias. What if everyone in here is named Cecilia? You don't know? I don't know.

00:26:04

And documentary maker Neil McCarthy, they're doing a podcast about this called Death in Ice Valley,

00:26:09

and they want to do the DNA testing and all the crazy stuff. So it's cool. But it's a great story.

00:26:14

I mean, it's a fucking tragic, sad, great story. They know. Which is what the podcast is called.

00:26:20

Yes. It's a tragic, sad, great, tragic story. So the story of the Isdal Woman, it's been one of Norway's biggest mysteries for almost 50 years.

00:26:29

On the morning of November 29th, 1970, let's all go there, a professor and his two daughters, age 10 and 12,

00:26:37

were going for a morning hike in a remote spot in the Isdalen Valley, Bergen, Norway.

00:26:44

I got it. I think I fucking got it. Nope. We can't see her face. We can't see her face.

00:26:48

We can't see the subtleties of her expression. Then I'm going to assume I got it.

00:26:53

The valley is known to locals as Death Valley because so many suicides happened there and because people die there.

00:27:02

Okay. Just trust. So trust Death Valley. Okay. We have one of those too. Yeah, yeah, but it's just really hot.

00:27:08

It's just hot. Yeah. And in the 1960s, some hikers had also fallen to their deaths while trekking in the fog, which is like, oh, God, stay at home, you know?

00:27:18

This is what happens when you leave the fucking house. You just walk off cliffs.

00:27:22

That's right. Don't you realize fog is waiting around every corner? That's right.

00:27:29

Okay, so that morning the two fucking daughters, 10 and 12, find. Oh. Yeah. Hidden between some rocks, kind of like tucked in between some rocks,

00:27:39

the girl stumbled upon the remains of a badly burnt body. Wow. The family runs back to town to call authorities.

00:27:45

I guess it's like an hour, though, I think. an hour trek to back to town. Did they run on foot? I don't know if they ran. I just put that

00:27:51

word in. Okay. Ran. It's a good visual of a family running together. Yeah. To solve a crime. That's

00:27:57

right. They go back to town. They call authorities. The body is that of a woman and she's lying on

00:28:04

her back and the front of her body is badly burnt, making her face unrecognizable. And the police

00:28:11

lawyer, who's one of the first officers to be on the scene, Carl Havlor, AAS, what's the,

00:28:18

Oos, Oos, not even, was that like a telephone, but it went just completely, say it again,

00:28:25

oh, Oos, it's Oos, it's Oos, okay. This show is going to last four and a half hours, FYI.

00:28:38

FYI, how do you say that? Pwee! Pwee! He said it looked like she had, it was like she had thrown, it was like she had thrown

00:28:49

herself back from a fire. It looked like that. But there was no, you know, there wasn't a fire going on.

00:28:53

And she was also found out of the way. It was an unusual place to be. It wasn't like she had just been hiking.

00:29:01

And also, side note, the little girls back in the 1970s who were that young, they still

00:29:07

won't talk about it at all to anyone. They said that they, 40 years plus years later,

00:29:13

it psychologically affected them so much that they're just keeping it within the family.

00:29:16

I'm sure. Not talking about it. Well, also I bet there's something to it where it's,

00:29:21

like, I can't think of the correct word, but like that experience. So they don't just want to go on TV and be like, yeah, so anyway, it's not, that's not how it is

00:29:33

for them. So like the, all the media that comes to interview people of like, what happened? What

00:29:38

did it feel like? Or it's like, they don't fucking know how it felt like they were 10 and 12.

00:29:42

But it also like, that does something like to make the curiosity even bigger for the media. So

00:29:47

they probably hound them more than they would if they were like, we're getting one fucking interview

00:29:50

and that's it to like get Oprah over here immediately. Well, and also cause they're

00:29:54

little So it like even more salacious Totally Um so the case becomes more mysterious by what was found at the scene So weird There a dozen or more pills are found along with a packed lunch

00:30:06

an empty bottle of, and I found out what it was, St. Halvard's Liquor, Liqueur, giggling, don't fucking giggle,

00:30:15

two plastic bottles that smelled of petrol, a burnt passport, a broken umbrella, and a silver spoon with the monogram filed off.

00:30:23

What? That sounds like a board game if I've ever heard it. Sorry. That's crazy. The body is surrounded also by jewelry, a watch, nylon stockings, and a burnt rubber boots.

00:30:36

The labels of the bottles had been scraped off. The tags of the clothes had been cut off and looking, obviously, to conceal her identity.

00:30:45

And then when the press gets wind of her, the Jane Doe, they dub her the Isdal Woman

00:30:49

because it's where she's found. The autopsy only added more mystery. her cause of death was a combination of phenobarbital sleeping pills

00:30:58

and carbon monoxide poisoning with smoke particles in her lungs. So you've got to hope she died of inhaling the smoke before the fire.

00:31:08

You know? There were around 50 to 70 sleeping pills found on her stomach, which hadn't yet integrated into her bloodstream.

00:31:16

That's a lot. So she probably wasn't passed out when she was lit on fire. Sorry.

00:31:23

Yes. Let me ask the worst question that you can't answer. Yes. Okay. The medical examiner also found a large bruise on her neck.

00:31:34

It may be caused by a blunt force, and the woman's fingerprints have been deliberately sanded away.

00:31:40

This is an expert, this person, that's doing all this. Yes. What they were able to tell about her, though,

00:31:46

was that she had numerous gold fillings and caps, and the dental work at the time they thought was associated

00:31:53

with the Far East, Central and South Europe, or South America, indicating she wasn't a local.

00:31:59

Which I think is so interesting, like, back then, that that's what they could do.

00:32:02

Because people locally did not use that much gold in their fillings or whatever?

00:32:05

Something. Yeah, it was like whatever material they was. Did someone just drop a tuning fork?

00:32:12

Or is that our cue to get the fuck out of here? Yeah, you know what I mean? They can tell by whatever dental procedures and whatever materials

00:32:21

they use. Pretty cool. Anyways, after discovery of the body, police are like, let's trace this woman

00:32:27

so we can find her fucking killers. The death was originally... And then the death, some people were like,

00:32:33

it was a suicide. Which, like, you know, I don't think so. No. But, you know... I'm going to commit suicide, but first

00:32:41

let me cut all the tags out of my clothes. And sand my fingerprints off. And then kill myself in possibly the most

00:32:47

painful fucking way. Possibly. And especially when there's like cliffs, go just jump.

00:32:51

Okay, never mind. We won't suggest. No. Georgia told me. Okay. After discovery of the body, I already said that.

00:33:00

Okay. The police get their first clue to learning the identity when three days after the body is found,

00:33:07

two suitcases are found at the Bergen train station nearby. The thought plickens.

00:33:13

Inside. Did you do that on purpose? I did. And I love it. I don't ever say it correctly anymore.

00:33:23

Inside of the suitcases, and they were hers, were clothes, a variety of wigs, a comb, hairbrush, makeup, money from Germany and Norway, coins from Belgium, Switzerland, and the UK.

00:33:34

One of the suitcases had 500 Deutschmarks hidden within the lining. Ew. Ew. We've got a wig spy on our hands.

00:33:42

Yeah. And don't forget, it's 1970, so it's the fucking Cold War. Oh. Right? Is it?

00:33:47

I think so. Yes. No one laughed, so. They're very polite people. They don't, yeah.

00:33:56

They put up with a lot of stupidity. On this specific podcast. Yes. The clothing suggested that she had a more provocative style,

00:34:04

and I think it was like Italian garments and everything looked fancy and shit, is what they're saying.

00:34:09

All the clothing had been scrubbed of fingerprints and labels had been removed. A tube of eczema cream was also found.

00:34:14

Its prescription label had been removed. inside one of the suitcases was a pair of non-prescription glasses and it had a partial

00:34:21

fingerprint on the lens but it wasn't of any help or it belonged to her I can't remember I can't

00:34:26

it was hard to tell based on writing they wouldn't know right if it belonged to her

00:34:30

how would they be able to tell duh that's no there you go it's so much easier when someone's

00:34:37

telling you a story to hear that stuff than when you're the one doing it where it's just like

00:34:40

What do you mean? Oh, that's obvious. I didn't, and I had just said that. There was another item found in one of the suitcases that stood out.

00:34:49

It was a legal pad, and it was written in code, written in code, various letters and numbers.

00:34:57

They cracked the code, and it corresponded with the woman stays in different cities,

00:35:01

so she's tracking where she's going. But writing it in code. And with wigs. Well, I do that, too.

00:35:09

You love your wigs. And I'm an international spy. Oh, shit. What if this was my cover?

00:35:15

That's our TV show. Steven! Podcast spies. Podcasting spies. And we just spy on other people who do good research on their podcasts.

00:35:27

And we kill them so that we're the only ones. No, that's mine. The Spy Who Podcasts.

00:35:32

Yes. There you go. We've done it. That's the title for now. Wait. You got it. Okay.

00:35:39

Legal pad. Code. The codes couldn't be cracked. They were cracked. And it was where she was staying.

00:35:44

She also had multiple passwords and registered at different hotels under different identities.

00:35:48

So clearly she's a fucking spy, right? You don't put money in the lining of your suitcase if you're just messing around for fun.

00:35:54

No No No Also you forget it was there I would absolutely be like I could have sworn I took out of the bank Now which suitcase did I put that in Did I sew it into the lining of

00:36:08

Okay, then they find a plastic bag advertising a shoe store in Stavenger. I can tell I'm not right, because you're laughing at me.

00:36:18

Help us. What? Stavenier? Thank you. Seven yet. Seven yet. Yet. Yet. Yet. Yet. Seven yet.

00:36:36

We're not making fun. I swear to God. We have no idea what's going on. All I need to do is get it once.

00:36:42

That's right. I need to get it seven times, and it's not my story. And you need me to repeat it, even though I'm not going to get it right again.

00:36:50

Seven yet. So in Stavenger. thank you, Cecilia Stavanger is so amazing I knew that would pay off one day

00:37:07

I knew suffering through living with her would pay off one day The Sun's owner, Rolf

00:37:14

remembers selling a pair of rubber boots to a very well-dressed, nice-looking woman

00:37:18

with dark hair and she came into the store trying to decide which rubber boots and umbrella to buy

00:37:24

You think she'd be a little more like, you know, I'm getting that and that. So he wouldn't remember her, but also she was hot.

00:37:29

What's up? Well, because there is this television show. I'm not sure if you guys have gotten it over here yet because it's American and it's new.

00:37:36

It's called Good Behavior. And it's with, right? It's with the woman from Downton Abbey, Lady Mary.

00:37:43

And she is like a con artist in America. And A, it's the best show. But B, her whole thing is, first of all, she's all about those wigs.

00:37:50

She's got like 25 wigs. but also she does exactly the opposite where she goes in and kind of dazzles people and so she's

00:37:57

like makes friends with everybody and does a character and then they remember has it they

00:38:01

remember her but as a different person so she's like details are all everyone has a different

00:38:06

detail exactly too many she has like a southern accent and a little blonde bob and then when she's

00:38:10

walking back through with long black hair nobody notices her except everyone in real life is like

00:38:15

that's a fucking wig like ever you can tell no you can't i'm kidding it's true because wigs they're

00:38:21

The top of it is just a tiny bit higher than a normal scalp is. Just a tiny bit higher.

00:38:26

Quite dense. Not like my hair. No one would ever guess that we're wearing wigs. That's what I'm saying.

00:38:34

I wore a wet wig out here for you guys. Oh, she picked her wet wig tonight. That's nice.

00:38:39

That's so 80s. Okay. Then, so he helps her. He recalled she was calm, seemed to be from another country, and that she smelled, and I feel like this just describes me.

00:38:51

A strong scent, possibly garlic. So she just had Italian lunch? Which I had today, too.

00:39:02

And I picked the garlic out and ate it. Seriously. Or what if she had some kind of garlic perfume?

00:39:07

Oh, and she wanted him to pay attention to that, and not that she had her name tattooed on her forehead or whatever.

00:39:15

Don't look at this. According to multiple witnesses who saw her or met her, she seemed, because they followed her trail,

00:39:23

she seemed well-traveled, confident, fashionable, elegant, and spoke several languages,

00:39:26

including English, Dutch, French, German, et cetera. Oh, this website's fired. Et cetera. And then just,

00:39:37

it's the rest of all the languages that everyone speaks in the world. Pick one. Although, and she did speak poor

00:39:42

English and German, but her fluency in European languages made her, they seemed that she was

00:39:49

European. I mean, just follow the trail. Okay. They released a composite sketch throughout the world, hoping someone would recognize her, describe her as 25 to 40, 5'4",

00:40:00

long black or brown hair, small round face, brown eyes, small ears, and that she wore her hair tied

00:40:06

back with a blue and white ribbon. So, God, I just keep hitting myself in the face with this microphone.

00:40:12

So I just want to acknowledge in case you're seeing this, I know. Consummate professionals.

00:40:16

I also keep hitting the table. Do this. Please help me. It's just like it was in a loop.

00:40:23

Yeah, I could do that. Isn't that funny? Stop it. Just do like... No, no. Perfect.

00:40:29

Perfect. Okay, sorry. Focus. Focus. Focus. They track her movements to Norway that show that she was staying in three different hotels

00:40:40

in March of 1970 under two different false names, which is like, I can't keep track of

00:40:44

my own fucking name. Seven months later, after being out of the country, apparently,

00:40:50

she returns and in the span of a month stays at another six hotels with six more false identities

00:40:55

and that she was known to request rooms with balconies and would change rooms often,

00:41:03

which I think is like not conspicuous. I don't like this room. Give me another one.

00:41:08

It's kind of a diva move too. Just be like, I'm sorry, this room isn't good enough.

00:41:14

Can you give me the exact same room three doors down? Yeah. Because they're all exactly the same.

00:41:19

Yeah. Or someone is hunting me and I need to keep changing rooms over and over again.

00:41:24

Ooh. That's what, I think that's what the point was. Okay. Maybe you should say the point at the top of the paragraph for me.

00:41:32

Well, I think we're all going, okay, let's all go, let's imagine she's an international spy

00:41:36

and every weird thing she does is because she's an international spy. I didn't mean to.

00:41:40

Be condescending. Yes. however I this however from last night you throwing me out of the bus

00:41:48

so hard you guys I turned the Dublin audience on Georgia in a way that was kind of a podcast ender it was I screamed what the fuck Karen I didn mean it It just kind of weird She told them I didn fucking know that Ireland wasn part of the UK

00:42:07

Which I absolutely do and never didn't. Before that day. That's not true. Steven.

00:42:18

Make me go back to high school. I mean, elementary school. We all learn. Okay. Fuck.

00:42:24

Okay, where was I? Being condescending. Changing hotel rooms. Changing hotel rooms.

00:42:31

And at several places she left a standing order that like every morning she wanted porridge with milk.

00:42:37

I don't know why I like that so much. Maybe she's a bear. Just spitball. We're spitballing ideas in a way we normally don't.

00:42:47

Keep up, Cecilia, come on. She signed hotel bills with the occupation of antique dealer

00:42:53

The last hotel she stayed in, she checked out and then departed in a taxi, which she paid for in cash, six days before her body was discovered.

00:43:03

And then they look through her luggage. They find a postcard belonging to an Italian photographer.

00:43:07

And they're like, this is a clue, right? That had to be exciting. He had dined with her at a hotel in Loen.

00:43:16

L-O-E-N. Luen. she goes i think i was pretty close she just said it she goes what

00:43:26

are we bothering you or like you want to do this right no she's like i just wanted to come and watch

00:43:33

this i don't she doesn't even know this podcast right she's like the mushrooms are just hitting

00:43:38

right now hand them over okay uh lewin norway but he could only remember a few details of their

00:43:46

interaction, even though he had gone to dinner with her and shit. Liar. He claimed that she

00:43:54

said that she claimed to be from South Africa and had six months to see Norway's most beautiful places.

00:44:00

In every wig in her suitcase. Isdal woman's remains are buried in February of 1971 and the authorities

00:44:10

believe she might have a Catholic background. So the investigator officers all attended, and they took photographs of the funeral.

00:44:24

She was buried with lilacs and tulips, and the priest called her, quote, the unknown woman who was put to the grave in a foreign country without any family present.

00:44:35

So that was 1971. Decades fucking later, in 2005, case goes cold, obviously. A Bergen native guy comes forward and he was like, oh, hey, I just saw the composite and I had this memory of 1970, which is like, really?

00:44:50

He's like, I was 26. And five days before the discovery of the body, he was hiking with friends and he noticed a clearly foreign woman hiking up the path.

00:45:00

They were coming back down. He said her clothing seemed to be unsuitable for hiking and looked like suited for a night in the city, which is like judgy, you know?

00:45:09

what would he think about these outfits in this scenario suitable for an on-stage audience

00:45:17

suitable for laying all the way down and she appeared to be terrified of two quote southern

00:45:25

looking men walking not far behind her wearing black coats like following her oh as they passed

00:45:33

her uh she made eye contact and seemed distressed and tried to speak to him and then continued

00:45:39

walking the men like wouldn't let her and kept her words herself and then upon recognizing her

00:45:44

from the composite sketch he calls the police and they tell her forget her she was dispatched

00:45:48

the case will never be solved so he's like all right i'll go back i i didn't tell you

00:45:53

so long anyway did they say that to him in 2005 or back in the day you know what sorry

00:46:00

wait sorry i bet it was you know what though i bet you're fucking right I bet it was then.

00:46:09

Do you think, because how could you pass a person on a trail that's giving you the old,

00:46:14

as they pass, with two fucking dudes in black coats behind, and just be like, well, that's hiking for you.

00:46:22

God, the nature out here is nuts, the things that happen. Like, you would have to do something, right?

00:46:28

I bet she's right. She shrugged, so she, yes. You have to make the call. You are a key piece of this show.

00:46:36

Cecilia, you're breaking my heart. I'm screaming at her, so she picked me. Okay, great.

00:46:41

Okay, so the leading theory is that the Isdal woman was a spy who had been murdered,

00:46:46

possibly connected to Russia in the Cold War. Okay. What's happening? So, da-da-da-da-da.

00:46:54

Okay, the case was recently opened in 2016, 46 years after the body was found, and they're hoping modern technology will identify her.

00:47:02

and her jaw was found preserved because it had all of those weird feelings in it.

00:47:08

They're like, we're going to need this. And in 2016, a DNA profile was obtained and handwriting analysis was done on the code,

00:47:19

which I think is so fucking cool, suggesting a European, possibly French origin.

00:47:24

And in 2017, isotopic analysis of her teeth revealed that she probably spent her early childhood

00:47:30

in Central or Eastern Europe, but spent her adolescence farther west. So that's fucking interesting.

00:47:36

God, from teeth? I know, isn't that cool? What are they going to say about my teeth?

00:47:42

I mean, it would make you feel good to see if these teeth were, these were some teeth.

00:47:46

They were, as David Sedaris, French dentist says, they're good time teeth. I've broken each front tooth on a bottle because I've lived my life.

00:47:58

What? Did you hear that? Hear that noise they just made at me? Oh, no. You should try partying hard that time sometime.

00:48:07

It's fun. And you're wearing pajamas? Oh, no. Oh, no. Is she okay? The researchers, okay, they think that she moved between childhood and adolescence.

00:48:21

And they still don't know the age at the time of death. But some indications would suggest that she may have moved just before or during World War II.

00:48:30

Which is fucking cool. And they still hope to find... So they buried her in a zinc coffin back in 1971,

00:48:38

specifically so that she wouldn't decompose. No. Because they're like, someday someone will be able to fucking identify this woman.

00:48:42

Who was the mayor? That's so genius. Yeah. We finally get to tell a story of the most brilliant police and authorities were.

00:48:53

That's so awesome. Yeah. Congratulations. Yeah, good job, Norway. You're number one.

00:49:00

It's amazing. Police still want to find the woman's family so they can have a proper burial for her.

00:49:04

And the reason they took those photos at the burial, they made a photo album so that her family can have it one day.

00:49:12

Why is this country so considerate? I know. No. We're staying. Can we stay? And that is the fucking is-so woman, you guys.

00:49:21

Wow. That's amazing. Thank you. Legit amazing. Thank you. That's so fascinating.

00:49:34

I think it was an Italian photographer. We met real Italians last night in the VIP line.

00:49:41

The guy kissed me on this cheek, and then he kissed me on this cheek like a movie.

00:49:46

It was the best. I literally said that he said hello, and I could tell he had an accent.

00:49:52

So I asked him where he was from, and he said Italy. And I went, you're real Italians?

00:49:57

It's right in his face like a goddamn idiot. He said to me, he whispered, he was like, you were talking to his wife,

00:50:05

and he was like, I've got to tell you guys how to do this murder from Italy. And I was like, tell it to me, don't tell Karen, because I want to do it.

00:50:11

And I wrote it down, and he was explaining it to me in really broken, in a thick Italian accent.

00:50:16

And the way he told me, I have never heard about mutilated genitals in the most sweet, lovely way.

00:50:25

Oh, and they like the most like respectable way of telling me what he the guy did.

00:50:32

And I was like, wow, you should be a newscaster. You should be like, I didn't need to go that far into the case.

00:50:40

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00:54:09

Pandering. God, I'm sorry, but there was like a half second pause that scared the shit out of me on that, you guys.

00:54:16

Well, it took me a minute, too. We're doing the fucking the best of on the show, aren't we?

00:54:20

Yeah. And there was also, there was a guy in the VIP line last night, an Irish guy that was

00:54:24

like, have you heard of the black metal murder? And I was like, shut your mouth.

00:54:27

Oh yeah. I heard you yelling at him, but I didn't hear it. Screamed. I screamed in his face.

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It was fun. That's how I bond with listeners. Some guy in the VIP, sorry, this is the last story.

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I said to me, you couldn't, you were, you couldn't be more Georgia if you tried in person.

00:54:42

And I was like, thanks. It's true. You are so Georgia. I am. So a lot of the information I got from this story, I got from a very good podcast called Disgraceland.

00:54:54

Oh, yeah. And Disgraceland, he does stories about musicians and bands and fucked up shit that happens in the music world.

00:55:03

But they're really short. His podcasts are like 20 minutes long. I was like, how do you do this?

00:55:07

It's like a snack. Yeah, it's really well produced, really good. The host is named Jake Brennan.

00:55:13

And so he covered Black Metal Martyrs. So some of the more like deep divey stuff is from his 20 minute podcast, his 20 minute podcast where he does 10 times more research than I ever can.

00:55:25

And some hours are two hours long. Yeah. OK. So he had this interesting theory. So just in starting that the rise of black metal in Norway.

00:55:38

So like Norwegian black metal was the subgenre of heavy metal music. And also, if you are into metal music, I thoroughly apologize because I feel like you're going to be fucking livid at the end of the story.

00:55:55

I've only been stuck in the backseat of cars from guys I went to high school with driving me around and blasting Slayer.

00:56:03

That's how I know metal. So I'm absolutely like so removed from this. I'm going to pretend I know what I'm talking about, as I always do.

00:56:11

But I super do not on this one. But Jake Brennan from Disgraceland is talking about how.

00:56:20

So Norway is one of the richest countries in the world. And it's true. And you take the best care for pensions and older people.

00:56:30

They put it all back into the community. It's incredible. You guys would hate the U.S.

00:56:36

It is every fucking man for himself over there. So one of his theories about the rise of Norwegian black metal

00:56:45

was that the frustrated, that teenage angst that you have, that in the 80s and 90s in Norway,

00:56:56

teenagers didn't really have that much to rebel against. So punk rock came out of poverty in England and Brooklyn or whatever

00:57:04

and people picking up, there's a garbage strike, so you pick up an old garbage bag on the street

00:57:09

and suddenly that's your shirt. And you put a safety pin in your nose and you're like, fuck the queen or whatever,

00:57:15

and it all makes sense. It all makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But in this scenario, because there's nothing to rebel against, people who want to be rebellious, and I absolutely empathize and understand to a degree, up to like listening to the go-go's.

00:57:32

That's my level of rebellion. Just really loud nasal singing. All girl bands. Fuck you, Mom.

00:57:38

I'm going to listen to pop. I'm going to go to the dance, Mom. anyway that basically that they kind of had to dig deeper because the the normal um heavy metal that

00:57:48

they were served up which is mega death and slayer and metallica and all those they'd all done what

00:57:54

um you know heavy metal music had done before which is you know satanism got introduced in early

00:58:01

that was like a led zeppelin thing that was there it wasn't new so basically they kind of looked at

00:58:08

It was like, how do we get more fucked up around this music genre? And it's also very fascinating because I remember seeing there was one of those true crime shows that did this story.

00:58:20

And they opened up talking about, because one of the big bad things that happens at the beginning of the story is that all these 12th century incredible historic churches start getting burned all around Norway.

00:58:35

way. Yeah. And they say that it's the, the idea is that instead of being like, Oh, we're Satanists

00:58:41

and the devil and like that isn't enough. And what, what the, um, the, the goal became to attack

00:58:50

Christianity directly. So it's not like, Hey mom, can you believe I'm a Satanist? It's like,

00:58:55

no, we need to end that fucking oppressive religion that came into our country because we

00:59:00

used to be pagans and we used to be, you know, Norse gods and all that shit. You know, you know

00:59:06

what you're like, you know what you're like, you know how you are with your roots and your

00:59:11

paganism and your Satanism and your environmentalism, which is a big part of it.

00:59:18

You love the forest and you love a human sacrifice. So God bless you all. which I just think is a fascinating, because, yeah, so anyway, so it's just a fascinating,

00:59:31

like, structure to set things up, because oftentimes in these true crime things, it's like,

00:59:35

can you believe these crazy assholes that were just criminals? And it's like, no,

00:59:38

everybody has a reason, and everybody's kind of like, you know, so, okay, so we're going to start

00:59:44

black, I'm already so tired, and my hair is still wet, it hasn't dried in any way.

00:59:49

So the black metal subgenre of heavy metal music was invented. I sound like your mom talking about heavy metal music It does It is so embarrassing I like it It was black metal music was invented here in Norway

01:00:05

Some say on August 16th, 1987. Oh, that's specific. Yes, on the day of the release of the band Mayhem's first demo, Death Crush.

01:00:16

Do you know I dated a metal dude in high school? Like my first boyfriend. What was his name?

01:00:22

His name was Chris Pratt, which is like complicated. What? Pratt-pratt? We met in rehab.

01:00:32

Seriously. I saw him walking down the rehab hallway the day he got there, and he had a Slayer shirt on,

01:00:38

and the gnarliest goatee and long hair tied back and earrings and shit, and I was like,

01:00:42

and he was fucking hot, and I was like, damn, and then our song was a Slayer song.

01:00:48

Did you slow dance to a Slayer song? No. Okay. No. Just F-U-C-K-E-D, too. No, Vince, no.

01:00:56

No, Vince, no. No, I never did that. No premarital sex for you. Good girl. Go on.

01:01:05

There's a lot of comics that I started comedy with. They're super into metal music.

01:01:10

And the funny thing to me is that deep down, they're super sensitive to the point where,

01:01:15

like, if you don't save them a chair at dinner, they'll leave. They'll, like, storm out of dinner.

01:01:19

Or like, you knew I was coming. Where it's like, sorry, weren't you just worshiping Satan?

01:01:26

Now you're mad about dinner? What? I can't track you. I'm tougher than you are. Okay.

01:01:33

So Mayhem's guitarist and the founder is a guy named Austin Arseth. Great. She's totally out.

01:01:41

She's just not even playing anymore. She's sleeping. But he goes by the name Euronymous.

01:01:48

Ooh. That's cool. They all have stage names. I'm going to call them stage names because I'm from the theater.

01:01:54

I mean, it is. They all renamed themselves these names that I'm sure at the time were very daunting and upsetting,

01:02:01

but now I think are fucking hilarious. Will you start calling me Euronymous? Yes, I will, Euronymous.

01:02:10

You know someone's cat's name, Euronymous, in this theater. Yes. Someone with a black cat named Euronymous.

01:02:17

and... What's another one? You're about to hear. And then you can pick the cat name at the end

01:02:23

when you hear all these great names. Okay, go, go, go, go, go, go. I think Hellhammer's coming up here somewhere.

01:02:28

Oh, that would be a kitten named Hellhammer. Like a little long-haired kitten. Oh, it's so cute.

01:02:36

Hellhammer. Can I say one more fucking annoying thing? Please. No, always. There's also a Twitter account called Black Metal Cats.

01:02:43

What? That is like photos of cats looking tough and then a quote, a black metal lyric as the tweet, like with the black metal cat.

01:02:54

Yes. It's so hilarious. It's just like a cat walking through the forest. Then it's like seasons of death.

01:03:01

Like it's the best. Okay. Okay. I'm done. We got to look at that. Yeah. Everybody feel free to pull out your phones and look at that right now.

01:03:10

I don't care. Okay. So, um, so Uranimus starts mayhem in 1984. with his bass player whose name was John Stubbard.

01:03:21

I don't care what his real name was. Oh, okay, because his fake name was Necrobutcher.

01:03:25

Oh! Yes. Dun-dun-dun-dun-dun. Thank you, that hurt. Necrobutcher. My instrument.

01:03:42

I damaged my instrument. How do they do it? That's really, I am impressed by all metal bands.

01:03:49

They're the ones that do that. Because you're singing like the Cookie Monster for hours.

01:03:55

Hours at a time. Yeah, and you're not trained to do it that way. They're like opera singers that have taken it in a different direction.

01:04:03

So Necrobutcher and Euronymous start this fucking band. Everybody loves it. They're just like, this is the shit.

01:04:11

And it's like the mid-80s. So it's very, very new. During the Cold War. we know right so the lead singer i honestly just damaged my larynx the lead singer is a 19 year

01:04:25

old named per olin he moved uh to norway from sweden to join the band and he and euronymous

01:04:32

were roommates and best friends oh i don't think black metal dudes gonna have besties

01:04:37

Wikipedia says they can. Roommates and best friends. Hellhammer, you can't come.

01:04:45

It's just our night. Stay home and take care of the kitten. Stay out of it, necromancer.

01:04:52

You're the kitten uncle. You need to stay home. I'm just loving cats. Okay, so Per, when he joins the band,

01:05:03

changes his name to Dead. Kind of love it. I mean, it's simple. It's quick. It's clean.

01:05:11

You know exactly what he's going for. It's kind of like performance art-y. Yeah.

01:05:16

Dead. Well, he really does throw himself into it because before shows, he buries his clothes

01:05:22

under the ground. What? And then digs them up and puts them on so he's like a real corpse.

01:05:28

I don't think he's like a real corpse. I think he just has dirty clothes. Well, he also was the first, they credit him in this scene with being the first to wear what they call corpse makeup, which is like not Kiss, not Alice Cooper, but like the white and black where they're trying to actually look dead.

01:05:45

Okay. So dead did it first. Dead did dead before dead was dead. Dead, the deadest.

01:05:52

Got it. He also used to carry a dead bird around in a bag before shows and then inhale it so that he would have the smell of death in his nostrils where it like you will get Lyme disease Yeah What are you doing Ew

01:06:09

But I feel like. That's what I do too backstage. What if I did that? Oh George. Vince did you get

01:06:15

Georgia her bird? There's some places where you can only get a chicken. Just like a chicken breast

01:06:22

in a bag. But it smells like death. And that's what I need. I love that idea so much.

01:06:33

Write it into the script, Stephen, of podcasters. Oh, the podcaster show? The spy podcasters.

01:06:39

Spy podcasters. We're going to do a chicken breast scene. Make sure they have two chicken breasts

01:06:45

in case we both want one. And, of course, two brown bags that look like they're from the candy shop.

01:06:53

Okay. He, when they would do their concerts, their live performance concerts, playing their instruments for each other,

01:07:03

Dead would cut himself on stage. They would have pig heads on the stage. It was super fucked up.

01:07:11

It was just a big fucked up contest. Who can be the more fucked up? And they were all winning.

01:07:16

now what's interesting is oh and all of the members of mayhem lived in an old house in the

01:07:24

forest near oslo which is rad yeah yeah um so i bet it was smelled so bad i'm it the dead birds

01:07:33

were piled around there's like dirty like soil encrusted clothing and then just dead birds

01:07:40

okay um oh uh the host of disgraced land um actually suggests that there is a chance that

01:07:49

dead may have actually been suffering from something called cotter syndrome which is a

01:07:53

mental illness where people actually believe that they are dead that they are corpses walking around

01:07:59

and that they're putrefying wow and it's a real uh syndrome that some people get and he definitely

01:08:06

had severe clinical depression. Okay. And I think that also is a lot of people were in this scene kind of like obviously rebelling

01:08:14

that whole thing. But then there's also, there's a coping aspect of it too, where it's like, you know, we all

01:08:20

do it when you all get together and you're like, here. No, I'm the most fucked up.

01:08:24

Oh, yeah. Okay. So they move into the house in the forest, which I wish I could see a picture of.

01:08:29

And Necro Butcher later says that after living together for a while, Dead and Euronymous kind of started fighting.

01:08:41

They weren't best friends anymore. They got on each other's nerves a lot. Apparently, Euronymous would play synthesizer music,

01:08:50

and Dead would get really mad and go outside. This was a fight they had once. he went outside got mad was like pouting outside but with corpse makeup on and and then

01:09:04

euronymous came outside and shot a gun up into the air well you're mad now i'm shooting a gun

01:09:10

it's the perfect solution sure um uh oh sorry hellhammer is the one that told that story hell

01:09:18

hammer. Um, you, you and I need to fucking up, up our fights. Yes. We have to get rifles.

01:09:26

We'll talk about it later. Okay. Okay. Um, so, uh, Oh, and that at one point they, they claim,

01:09:34

the band claims that once dead stabbed Euronymous with a knife because they were fighting. Um,

01:09:40

okay. So then it of course turns even darker than Norwegian black death metal, um, black metal.

01:09:48

On April 8th, 1991, Dead commits suicide in his and Euronymous' forest home in the band house.

01:09:58

And this is so fucked up. He slid his own wrists. Then he cut his throat. Then he shot himself in the head.

01:10:06

And then he left a note that said, excuse all the blood, cheers. Wow, dude. Yeah.

01:10:13

Death metal to the end, man. I think he just had very bad clinical depression and just didn't know what to fucking do with himself.

01:10:24

So now let's go one step more fucked up because this is just going to be as fucked up as it can be.

01:10:30

When Euronymous finds Dead's body, he doesn't call the authorities. He doesn't call anybody's family.

01:10:38

He goes and buys a camera, and then he comes back, and he takes pictures of the horrifying scene,

01:10:46

and then he walks around and he collects pieces of dead skull, and he later made necklaces out of those pieces of skull,

01:10:55

and he would give them to different members of their clique, like the local musicians who were in bands.

01:11:02

Uh-huh. And then he also took some brain matter so that he could eat it later because he wanted everyone to know that he was a cannibal.

01:11:11

Oh, God. Fucking 19-year-olds, man. They're so obnoxious. It's not cool. Here's one step worse.

01:11:23

Later on, in 1995, Mayhem used one of those pictures of the suicide scene as cover art for their live album, Dawn of the Black Hearts.

01:11:34

Oh, no. And I think that's supposed to be an ironic joke, that it was the live album, and the cover is a fucking photo of a suicide.

01:11:42

Of a guy named Dead. Of a guy named Dead. That's clever. The politest smattering of applause for that horrifying, God forbid there are staff members in this room right now.

01:11:55

We're so sorry. We're so sorry. Sorry. okay so this is now we're getting the sense of how intense this scene is and how devoted and

01:12:06

it's not just like oh i'm gonna get a tattoo and smoke and say fuck you yeah it's everybody's like

01:12:12

they're constantly accusing people of being posers you have to like you have to be really

01:12:17

dedicated and show how uh fucked up you are essentially so uranus opens um a month after

01:12:24

dead commit suicide, Euronymous opens a record shop called Helvete. Hey, what? I know it means hell.

01:12:36

I didn't get to that part yet. I was trying to pretend I didn't speak Norwegian.

01:12:42

What'd you say? Helvete. Yeah. Which means hell. Norway. way. You stole her crowning line. That was my, you jumped the bit. So that record shop,

01:13:00

becomes a meeting ground for all these black metal musicians. And they, the guys that begin

01:13:08

to frequent the shop start to be known as the black circle. And one of the guys is a man named

01:13:15

Varg Virkus. No? Varg Virkus. Wow. We're going to call him Varg from now on. Is that good?

01:13:32

He's also, his stage name is Count Grishnak. Count Grishnak. Which sounds like Steve Martin is playing

01:13:43

Dracula or something. Doesn't it? This is a comedy. It sounds like your shop teacher.

01:13:48

Mr. Grishnak, I don't want it. Mr. Grishnak, can I go to the restroom? I don't...

01:13:53

Okay. Okay, so... Varg. He is actually this amazing musician. He was a one-man...

01:14:03

He had a band called Burzum, probably. And it was just him. He played every instrument or whatever.

01:14:10

So he was very well-known, and that band was very well-respected in this scene. And so they get him to join the band after dead commit suicide.

01:14:19

So so then then basically as they meet and they're hanging out and it's this thing of like they know what Uranus did with the suicide scene and all the horrible fucked up shit.

01:14:32

So everyone is trying to like, you know, beat everybody else. So people start desecrating graves and then the churches begin to burn.

01:14:41

Now, this was a year after dead suicide on June 6, 1992. The Fantoft Stav Church.

01:14:49

Oh, wow. Nice. Wow. It was built in 1150. No, that's too old. It's so old. And it looks like something from Middle Earth.

01:15:03

It's amazing. It's like they rebuilt it, right? Yeah. It's really amazing looking.

01:15:08

But it's like it's got all these roofs. It almost looks like a pagoda in a way. Like, it's so fucking old.

01:15:14

That's so insulting to them. No, I know. A pagoda looks like that. They ripped it off from the Japanese easily.

01:15:21

No. I didn't mean it like that. Mom, you're being racist. When you see it, you just go, nothing like that exists anymore.

01:15:29

And this was the one of the only ones left. You dicks. These guys who burned it, not you guys who built it.

01:15:37

I was mad at them for building it. Start attacking people. What dicks? Okay. So, of course, the story, this church burning down, it's a national treasure.

01:15:48

It makes, of course, the news. And they find satanic symbols around the site. Nobody knows what's going on or why anybody would do that.

01:16:00

But, of course, the medals of the Norwegian black medal scene do. So then they see that that church got burned, and they start burning all the churches.

01:16:13

And over 30 architecturally and historically significant churches around Norway were destroyed in these arson fires.

01:16:21

And one firefighter lost his life in trying to fight the blaze. So in January of 1993, two friends decide they're going to interview Varg.

01:16:32

And he wants to talk about the black metal scene. He wants to talk about the church fires, and they're going to bring it all to one of Norway's biggest newspapers, Bergenstedende.

01:16:46

You committed. No, that wasn't it, was it? Bergenstedende. Bergenstedende. Sorry.

01:16:57

Sorry, sorry. I'm sorry I stole your thunder. Do you have, like, an ear for Norwegian?

01:17:01

I think I can hear better than you. Oh, okay. I got to put my hearing aids on. I got to bring my hearing horn out.

01:17:07

So they're like, okay, we're going to interview him, and then we're going to bring this story to one of Norway's biggest newspapers,

01:17:15

hoping they'll print it. And then, of course, when they get this story, a journalist named Finn Bjorn Tonder,

01:17:22

he arranges an interview with them, because they're like, we think we found out who has been burning these churches.

01:17:28

so they have him come to uh an apartment and when he when the journalist gets there they tell him if

01:17:36

he ever if he goes to the police about anything he's about to hear they'll shoot him um so then

01:17:41

but the paper's fine but the newspaper's okay yeah it doesn't work like that uh it's like he just

01:17:47

can't tell details he can't like report them okay um or say who it is so then var goes on to explain

01:17:53

that he knows who burnt the churches He not saying he did it but he might have done it but other people did it I don know Give me credit but also don put me in jail

01:18:06

So he basically says the attacks are going to continue, and he tells the reporter they're devil

01:18:13

worshipers, and quote, our intention is to spread fear and devilry, and that's why we're telling this to...

01:18:21

Bertel Gunstiddle didn't. Close. So later on, years later in other interviews, he actually said, he explains,

01:18:35

the Christians desecrated our graves, our burial mounds, so it's revenge. For each desecrated

01:18:41

graveyard, one heathen grave is avenged. And for every 10 churches burnt to ashes, one heathen

01:18:47

which is a Norse pagan temple is avenged. And for each 10 priests or Freemasons assassinated,

01:18:53

one heathen is avenged. So he's fun. He's a good guy. Okay. So of course the journalist gets the

01:19:03

story and it immediately becomes a front page story. And the article is titled, We Lit the

01:19:10

Fires. And there's a picture of Varg holding two knives. His face is like slightly obscured.

01:19:17

He was like, you promised. You snitched on me to a newspaper as a journalist. When I talk to you, snitches get candy.

01:19:28

So basically, Vargen and Euronymous, they planned this interview. They wanted to scare people.

01:19:36

They wanted to promote black metal. And they wanted to get more customers to the record shop.

01:19:42

You guys need to pick which direction you're going in. Like commerce and like fucking, or are you going to go that way?

01:19:49

Well, and the sad thing is they did not see the huge return vinyl was going to make.

01:19:54

Like they were so early in on that game and like now they'd be so rich. Anyway, by the time the story hits the sands, Varg's already been arrested.

01:20:04

Good. Yeah. So he claims, oh, he claims that the journalist snitched on him, But the police are like, no, we actually found your home address on an old Burzum flyer.

01:20:19

So he didn't exactly cover his tracks. OK, so he's held in jail for six weeks. The charges don't stick because, of course, there's no evidence that directly ties him to any of these church fires.

01:20:31

And so he's released. But during those six weeks that he was in jail in January of 1993,

01:20:37

Euronymous closes the record shop because they've gotten such intense media, negative media attention

01:20:43

and pressure. So Var gets out of jail like, I did it. I took the hit for the team because we're,

01:20:49

and it's like clothes, shades pulled. And of course he's livid. And so are all the members

01:20:56

of the black circle because they don't have a cool clubhouse to go to and fucking talk about

01:21:01

their feelings. What if they just went there and talked about their feelings? so many less churches would have burned down it was like just group therapy yeah

01:21:10

sitting in a circle like i guess i just like to rock because my dad was mean yeah okay so

01:21:17

oh and somewhere in there uranus also started his own record label because all these bands started

01:21:23

yeah of course popping up everywhere smart right so so him closing that it was basically like he

01:21:29

was kind of the king of the scene but then nobody really they didn't want that they wouldn't want

01:21:34

any one guy to be in charge and they there was a lot of you know i guess struggling for power or

01:21:39

whatever um so tensions are building evil feelings satanic bad vibes um it all leads up to the night

01:21:47

of august 10th 1993 when varg goes over to uranus's place with a guy named snore now

01:21:54

wow that's the best yeah that's his actual that's not his stage name that's that's his working name

01:22:03

that's his given name snore okay and i like it so much i forgot to write down his stage name it's

01:22:11

just i was like snore this is the best so it's like i imagine like you know snow white and the

01:22:17

seven dwarfs it's like he looks like sleepy yeah because it's snore okay they get into a disagreement

01:22:26

with Euronymous. At first they say it's about royalties for old Burzim recordings

01:22:33

that Euronymous isn't giving them through the label, like it's basically a money fight.

01:22:37

But Varg ends up stabbing Euronymous 23 times. 16 of those wounds were in his back.

01:22:45

Whoa. And still Varg claims it was self-defense. So he's arrested nine days later

01:22:52

and when he's arrested, police find 150 kilograms of explosives and 3,000 rounds of ammunition in his home.

01:23:01

Yes. So come to find out that Varg had other plans going on. And what he was going to do,

01:23:09

and he was actually on the verge of doing, was blowing up the radical leftist anarchist space

01:23:15

in Oslo called Blitzhaus. He was going to blow that up. And he was basically on the verge,

01:23:22

But he knew Euronymous didn't want him to because Euronymous, deep down, they said, was a communist.

01:23:28

So he was like, he would have been, I don't know. I don't understand Wikipedia sometimes.

01:23:35

I just cut it and I paste it. But essentially it didn't line up with Euronymous' true politics.

01:23:42

And so he wouldn't have approved. and so, but then when they ask Varg himself, he says that he had the explosives and the ammunition

01:23:51

in order to defend Norway in case they were attacked by the United States or the Soviet Union Sorry Because it was still the Cold War What You have questions Questions and comments Questions and comments When they asked Varg he told them because he was alive still

01:24:08

Yes. Varg stabbed Uranimus to death. Got it. Got it. Got it. That was somewhere else.

01:24:13

Record store owner. Yeah. You know, yeah. I heard it the other way around. Okay.

01:24:16

Okay. So there's a lot of names in this story. And many of them don't attach to a real person like Hellhammer.

01:24:24

Who is that? Picture a Hellhammer. Like, what would a Hellhammer look like? Okay.

01:24:27

Well, you know what's actually fun is you can click on the names to, like, when I was trying

01:24:32

to find out who the original bass player for fucking Mayhem was. That's how I spent my time today.

01:24:38

And it came up on that guy's page, and he's like a 52-year-old dude playing the bass with

01:24:43

nothing. He just looks like, da-na-na-na-na. Blah-blah-blah-blah. Like, he's having a great time.

01:24:48

Like, this is just a thing. He got out very quickly. And it's just like, you guys are way too intense.

01:24:53

I just want to jam. I just wanted to drink some Lohenbrows and kick back. Yeah. So, yeah.

01:24:59

Okay. Yeah. So, essentially, Varg thought that either the United States or the Soviet Union was going to attack Norway,

01:25:08

and he wanted to get ready for it because, in his words, we have no reason to trust either the government, the royal family, or the military

01:25:17

because of what happened the last time we were attacked. So, you know, he's got a point.

01:25:24

At his trial, it was claimed that Varg Snor and another friend, Plebe, just to make sounds, had planned the murder together and that the third person, the third friend, stayed at the apartment in Bergen as an alibi to make it look like they never left.

01:25:45

So he was renting movies using Varg's credit card and basically creating a paper trail so it looked like Varg was somewhere else.

01:25:52

So it was clearly premeditated. It was not, I went over there to ask for money, and then we ended up getting in a fight.

01:25:58

And it was self-defense where I stabbed somebody in the back 16 times. On May 16, 1994, Varg was sentenced to 21 years in prison, which is the maximum penalty in Norway.

01:26:08

And he was charged with the murder of a Euronymous and the arson of three churches, of which I cannot say the names.

01:26:15

the attempted arson of a fourth and for the theft of 150 kilograms of explosives from where i know

01:26:23

they need to fucking lock that shit up a little better get a padlock at the very least one of

01:26:30

those ones from junior high yeah just don't give away the code don't tell anyone that it's your

01:26:35

birthday what one two three four um when they read that sentence varg was smiling because he

01:26:44

rock till the very end. And in February of 1993, the Norwegian magazine Rock Furore.

01:26:53

Sure. Is it out of print? Everyone's like, we never got that magazine. It was not good.

01:27:00

Well, they published an interview where Varg said of the prison system, it's much too nice here.

01:27:05

It's not hell at all. In this country, prisoners get a bed, a toilet and a shower. It's completely

01:27:10

ridiculous. I asked the police to throw me in a real dungeon and also encourage them to use

01:27:16

violence. There is a chance that if things had gone a little bit differently for Vark,

01:27:25

he would have just been really into S&M and like Dungeons and Dragons and shit. Like he could,

01:27:32

it could have gone real light and easy for him. What's interesting then is because I thought I

01:27:38

saw something about this. I looked it up. Norwegian prisons. I bet they're fucking nice.

01:27:42

They're the most luxurious in the world, but they've won design. Stop it. Hold my hand.

01:27:50

They've won design awards. What? But, but, but, but, but, but, but, Norwegian criminals demonstrate the lowest

01:28:00

rate of reoffending in Europe, if not the world. So, yes, you guys, quit Showing off.

01:28:09

You're doing all right. I just love that idea where it doesn't work that way. You can't just punish people into the ground and be like, yeah, I get it now.

01:28:20

Now I'm happy that you've kicked my face into the dirt. Yeah. You guys keep setting examples, and we keep going, yeah, but we don't think so.

01:28:29

Yeah. Where America's like, oh, we'd like to privatize our prisons, and so everyone can make money.

01:28:35

Oh, that's not going to do it. Hey, let's. the real horror show. So it turns out deep down

01:28:44

in what's happening, so Varg got out of prison in 2009. Uh-oh. Is he here? He might be unlicensed, sir.

01:28:52

The count. But it turns out he basically, at the end of the day, he was a white supremacist.

01:28:57

Oh, okay. And that's what all of his, he called it, I believe he said it's otolism,

01:29:03

which was, he didn't like the label of white supremacist or Nazi. Oh, you don't get a picket, dude.

01:29:08

Well, he's very independent spirit. Okay. And he likes to call the shots. Okay. He says otolism lies in paganism, traditional nationalism, racism, and environmentalism.

01:29:24

This is the first time those have been named together. I mean, that's the festival I don't want to go to, ever.

01:29:31

What have you had? Just picture the shirt from the festival, and it's like a globe,

01:29:35

and it says those four things around it. And there's a heart. It's like people walking towards you are like,

01:29:42

hey, uh, oh, uh, what? Yes. Also, this is just, I'll end it with this fun fact. Varg has never in his life used alcohol or recreational drugs That the problem That was all sobriety talking Oh man That whole time So that the black metal murders of Norway So fascinating Awesome Thank you That was real fun That was

01:30:13

fun. I was really sweating during that. Oh yeah. I was sweating too during mine. Between the

01:30:19

pronunciations and being judged by metalheads, I was just like, I don't want, why did I do this to

01:30:23

myself. We really put ourselves at risk. Every goddamn day for you people. I think we have time

01:30:31

for a quick hometown. Yeah, let's do it. Can we have the lights up if possible, just so we can see

01:30:38

everybody? Karen's going to tell you the rules while the lights get... Oh, God, it's gorgeous in here. Oh, my God. Look at those light fixtures. Jesus. I'm worried for you.

01:30:53

You guys. You shouldn't have. Okay. Hometown rules. Okay. We want it to be local, so please don't tell a story and then be like, I'm from Arizona,

01:31:11

because no one gives a shit about that stuff. You can be drunk, but you can't be so drunk that you can't follow your own story.

01:31:17

That's key. it'd be great if it had an ending some kind of a button wrap it up, give us some

01:31:25

satisfaction of some kind it's just good for storytelling in general and just remember that

01:31:32

everybody who didn't get picked hates your gut so you need to move it along are you picking today?

01:31:39

no, no, you do it don't panic I'm panicking here's Vince with the mic There he is.

01:31:51

Okay. Okay. Hi. Hi. What's her name? I'm Sandra. Sandra? Look at her cute dress.

01:31:58

What's your name? I'm Sandra. Monsandra? Sandra. Sandra. I'm just Sandra. She said I'm Sandra, but I'm really nervous.

01:32:06

Me too, me too. Okay. Sandra. Your dress is amazing. I love it. Thank you. I love it.

01:32:17

Any pockets on there? Yes, good. No pockets. Very disappointing, but it is my favorite dress.

01:32:22

Yeah, it's really good. Sandra, where are you from? I'm from Burigan. Okay, great.

01:32:26

We've talked about it all night. You talked about us a lot today. Yeah. There's a lot going on up there, down there, over there.

01:32:32

Up there? Down. Down. Started strong. What's your hometown? So I was on a train with two murder brothers, and I got them thrown off the train.

01:32:43

Yay! Me and my sister, we were going on a weekend trip here for a convention. How long ago was it?

01:32:52

It's a couple years, five, six years ago. And then on one of the stops, two people got on.

01:32:57

And at first we were like, okay, they're obviously drunk, but, you know, you do you.

01:33:02

Thank you. For all alcoholics, I want to say thank you. It's really nice. But then it's a six, six and a half hour long train ride.

01:33:10

so as the train ride was going along they got progressively more drunk and more annoying

01:33:15

and at one point I went to the bathroom and when I came back one of them was yelling in my sister's face

01:33:21

and my sister has autism so she was panicking and I just pointed at him and go hey, you stopped that

01:33:29

yes Sandra can I ask what you do for a living? at the time I was working in an office

01:33:38

right now i work at a toy toyce ross uh perfect and i'm a i'm a take no take no shit but do no

01:33:45

harm kind of person love it god bless um and he he was looking at me like he wanted to murder me

01:33:51

but i was like that's my sister so fuck off and then i went to one of the people working at the

01:33:56

train and i was like they're drinking and they're in people's faces you need to get them off and

01:34:01

she was like okay we're gonna call the police but uh the thing about the stops on the train from

01:34:07

bergen to oslo not all of them have police stations that can handle drunk people so we had to wait for

01:34:14

about an hour before they were thrown off the train and then when finally the the train stopped

01:34:20

they just panicked they started running and the police was running and my sister was crying and

01:34:24

i was like okay it's gonna be fine it's gonna be fine we're going to oslo and it's gonna be fine

01:34:29

and then we went to the convention it was fine and then we came back and then a week later

01:34:35

my mom called me while I was at work at the office and she was like remember those two guys

01:34:41

who got thrown off the train to Oslo I was like yeah they murdered someone oh they stabbed someone

01:34:48

multiple times and it was right across from the street where my mom worked that's why she knew

01:34:53

about it so did it happen before or after they were it happened like literally a few hours before

01:34:58

they got on the train. Holy shit. So I pointed at a murderer. Oh shit. And I was like, Hey,

01:35:05

you stopped that. Yeah. Sandra. Oh my God. That's right. You did. So naturally I was like,

01:35:17

okay, but they're going to come murder me now. So yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I started locking my doors.

01:35:21

No, they, they got arrested and they, they got the 21 year old sentence, which I think is too low

01:35:26

because they did murder someone and he was he was he was a person most people are

01:35:31

but yeah they thankfully they got the jail time so not worrying too much now anymore but back then

01:35:37

i was like yeah okay maybe maybe start wearing like an alarm and pepper spray the motherfuckers

01:35:44

yeah that is amazing that's so good great job That's how you do it. Thank you so much.

01:35:55

Sondra, everybody. Yay! Yay! Hell yeah! Such a good dress. Such a good dress. Knocked it out of the park.

01:36:06

That's what we like, is like, yes. Our hometown person was dressed better than both of us.

01:36:11

I know! Can we trade outfits real quick? Oh, that was amazing. Oh my God. Fucking Oslo!

01:36:20

You guys, that was so fast! That felt so fast. Yeah. I want to say, like, we were walking off of the plane today

01:36:29

When we got to Oslo and we were just both in this thing and I turned to you and go, what's this fucking life?

01:36:35

And it's so true because it never in my life did I think I would ever get, like, come to Norway and come to Oslo.

01:36:42

And this is so crazy that this podcast that I'm absolutely obsessed with and love because it's this topic that means so much to me because I just, that's all I want to do is talk about it, has brought us here.

01:36:54

I'm so happy. We're so fucking thankful for you guys and everything you've done for us.

01:36:59

It's amazing. And just thank you for buying tickets, for supporting, for listening.

01:37:06

I mean, when the agent that set up this tour, when he started talking about like Oslo and Stockholm and Amsterdam, I was like, they don't want this there.

01:37:17

Let's not bother those people. They have all their brown bread and their herring.

01:37:23

They don't need our bullshit. And I think I just, we were so nervous that, I don't know what we were fucking nervous about, but it's, this has been such a beautiful night and such an incredible, like, it's so nice to be, feel so connected with you guys.

01:37:38

Like, what an exciting thing. What an exciting thing. But even in Oslo, we have.

01:37:44

People in a country all the way around the world listen to George and I record personal conversations we have about serial killers on her couch at home It incredible So thank you Yeah and the couch that has old cat barf

01:38:02

Oh, you don't know about that. We're laying it all on the table in Oslo. Yes, thank you for being so accepting of our clothes and appearance and our non-professional demeanor.

01:38:14

And please stay sexy. And don't get murdered! Goodbye, you guys. thing, or if you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out a podcast called

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Goodbye.

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

178 - Live at the Folketeatret in Oslo

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