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00:01:48
This is a true crime comedy podcast. That's what it is. It's what we do. We make it for you.
00:01:52
Uh-huh. And for ourselves. That's right. And that's Karen Kilgaris. And that's Georgia Hardstart.
00:01:56
And we are ourselves. Look, there's nothing we can do about ourselves. Yeah. It's just how it is.
00:02:01
We're doing our best. We're tightening up our games. That's right. But the game can always be tightened.
00:02:06
Sure. That's what life is. Why not strive for something a little bit more? It's like a righty tightsy.
00:02:12
Lesty lusty. Don't do that one. You got to write in that shit. Write in it up. Write on up.
00:02:18
You don't need to loosen it down. And that's where we're here for. Hello and welcome.
00:02:23
Oh, we did that part already. Tighten it up. Tighten it up. Right in that shit. We're here for a good time, not a long time.
00:02:29
Yes. Oh, that's true. Is that from your yearbook? It's good. It's real good. Send your buns.
00:02:37
Goodbye. Good luck. Good luck. Get fucked. Stay real. You don't know that one? No.
00:02:42
Oh, shit. Irvine must have been crumbling. Goodbye. Good luck. Get laid. Get fucked.
00:02:47
Hell, yes. It's dirty. What's up, Irvine? 92. Or whenever. That's about right. 98?
00:02:53
I graduated in 98, yeah. You know people who listen to this podcast were born in 98?
00:02:59
Isn't that weird? That they have ear holes at work and we don't have to censor them?
00:03:05
Well, yeah, there's nothing we can do about their ear holes. Because they're 20.
00:03:09
They're underdeveloped. Your hammers and your shoe horns. You know, the things inside your ear holes.
00:03:16
Your baby teeth. Your little baby teeth that are all up in your face. Come down.
00:03:20
You're going to come down during this podcast. Drinking coffee. It's just... We're doing it.
00:03:26
We're saying anything we can think of. Oh, you're talking about the 98ers. The 98ers centers.
00:03:33
No. How do you guys do it? They've never not known the internet. Guys, keep going.
00:03:37
They've never not known cell phones. It gets worse and then it gets better. Oh. It gets a little shitty again in my 30s.
00:03:43
It's basically like the stock market. It's going to go down, up, down, up, up, up, down, down, down, up.
00:03:48
So writing that shit and tighten that shit. And bear market, bull market, I don't know the difference.
00:03:54
Amen. Let's hear it this year. And there's elephants. There's donkeys. The elephant and donkey market.
00:04:00
And then there's a bull. Okay. We did it. That was the plot of Succession. I love Succession.
00:04:10
I like to pretend that Succession and the Righteous Gemstones work in that they live in the same world.
00:04:16
Because in the last episode I watched of the Righteous Gemstones, they went through that theme park.
00:04:20
And I was like, what if this is the theme park the Succession family owns? And then it's this thing.
00:04:25
It's like Sunday night. Are you in the mood for fucking weird shit like Gemstones or weird shit like Succession?
00:04:31
Yeah. They are the same show going in different directions. That's right. This must have been written about on like BuzzFeed already.
00:04:38
Yeah, it's got to have been a like snappy article in a snappy world. Send us the snappy article you wrote about the Succession.
00:04:45
You 20-year-old. You sit at a fucking, what's it called? Aggregator, and you just type all day.
00:04:51
And you wrote an article about this. You're the one that's working the, what's it called?
00:04:56
Aggregator. What's the other computer word that we always like to use? Instigator.
00:05:00
It's not an instigator. Oh, Stephen. You're a millennial. Algorithm. Yeah! A millennial.
00:05:09
Millennial Ray Morris is here. I'll be here all night. That's still not. You better be here all night, motherfucker.
00:05:15
You will be here all night editing this part of the show. No one's ever going to hear any of this, right?
00:05:21
No. Absolutely not. Okay, good. We sound old. And we're back not being able to think of the word algorithm.
00:05:27
Aggregate. Yes. Algorithm. Anyway. What do you have? A little news. News? News and reviews?
00:05:35
News and reviews? Oh, well, let's do the business first. Okay. So business people, tune in.
00:05:40
Business in the front. Yeah. There we go. And then we'll party in the back. That's right.
00:05:43
My favorite weekend. Guys, you're sick of hearing us talk about this. We're still excited about it, though.
00:05:49
That's right. So too bad. We're fucking taking over Santa Barbara. There going to be so many old white people that don understand what happening Kind of sorry But not really So the packages are sold out So you can get like a whole weekend package but individual tickets are still on sale
00:06:08
Yeah, and there's going to be a bunch of shows, so you can come to all of them still.
00:06:12
And also, we're having a fucking art show for the murderinos that are attending the weekend.
00:06:17
So you can submit your artwork for the art exhibit at My Favorite Weekend. The info is in the news section of the website.
00:06:24
And for people who are coming or not coming If you want to come and you're a murderino maker
00:06:29
And you just want to fucking sell your wares At our little cute, what's it called?
00:06:32
Like a pop-up store? Our pop-up shop? Bazaar? You can do that Oh, this is going to be a bazaar
00:06:37
Bazaar! It's going to be snakes, I don't know Tents and snakes? Yeah, you can do it
00:06:42
Also, info and link to submission forms Is in the news section of the website Beautifully red, Georgia
00:06:48
There are so many people who make such incredible art If you're in Los Angeles, come fucking drive up for the day
00:06:53
sell your shit. We'd love to see it. Let's see your knife earrings. Let's see your cross-stitch
00:07:00
eat a dick. Anything like that. If you feel like doing it and you want to come up and do it, we really would love
00:07:05
to host you and see it. But here's the thing. Submission deadlines are October 20th, so that's in a couple
00:07:11
days. Yeah, you have to actually submit and people need to know you're coming, so that's
00:07:15
important. You know you're saying to your friends, like, I don't know if I should do it.
00:07:18
I don't think I'm good enough and there's going to be so many talented people there. Should I do it? Should I not
00:07:22
do it? Just do it! Don't fucking. Everyone sucks. Just do it. Just do it. What if you're the best one?
00:07:30
Yeah, exactly. What if you don't realize that you don't have imposter syndrome? What you have is secret superstar syndrome.
00:07:37
Thank you. I was waiting for some kind of reaction to that. What other business?
00:07:42
Oh, are we going to do the TV guide of exactly right media? Yes. Let's see. The Murder Squad has a bonus episode up right now.
00:07:50
Yes. Where Billy Jensen does something. He okay, so what he did, and this is in conjunction with Billy Jensen's book, Chase Darkness with Me is being they're doing these book events at Barnes and Nobles across the land. And essentially, Billy went and found a very old murder case. And so they're going to be releasing clues. And then you get you get to basically work on this murder case and try to solve it with the clues that are released.
00:08:14
That's fucking brilliant. It's really, really cool. So they have this bonus episode coming out.
00:08:18
So listen to this week's Murder Squad and it'll make sense more than the way I'm explaining it right now.
00:08:25
It's really interesting and cool. And Billy did it all. On the podcast is Channing Apodaca.
00:08:29
He's a comedian and he has a fucking adorable cat that I've seen. That's amazing.
00:08:34
Great. What is Do You Need a Ride have, Karen? Do You Need a Ride? We're recording it tomorrow.
00:08:40
And the rumor is that Billy Wayne Davis is going to make it onto this episode. I've heard that like six fucking times.
00:08:45
Oh, I know. It's very true. He's the Matt Damon of Do You Need a Ride. That's right.
00:08:53
Yeah, so as far as we know right now, that's what's happening tomorrow. He has the most lovely southern accent.
00:08:59
It's just worth it to hear him talk. Also, his stand-up is brilliant. He's just good at what he does.
00:09:03
He's one of those comics that puts in the work. He's on the road all the time. He has the best internet posters that he makes.
00:09:11
One of them is just a picture of a wolf on a bathroom sink, a public bathroom sink.
00:09:17
Like, clearly someone went in and took a picture before they caught it for animal control.
00:09:22
You know, he's that guy. Very cool. Thank you. He's a cool guy. And, of course, there's the Fall Line, and this podcast will kill you.
00:09:28
They're coming out with new episodes soon, but you can catch up on everything. They're so fucking good.
00:09:32
They're so great. Speaking of, I don't know, whatever. Things? We want to plug something that we just found out about from Millennial Ray Moritz.
00:09:41
Oh, yeah, that's right. The UCB Theater, which is like a big theater here in L.A. for sketch comedy, for improv,
00:09:49
for just fucking weird shit, fun shit comedy shows. Yeah. It turns out, we just found out that someone's doing a My Favorite Murder, the Unauthorized
00:09:58
musical. It's going to be on. And we're here to authorize it. We are going to authorize it.
00:10:02
Whatever it is, we don't know. We put our stamp of approval on it. There's no way it's not critical and mean.
00:10:07
We hope they don't hate us. There's no way they don't hate us. It's October 29th at UCB Inner Sanctum at 10 p.m.
00:10:13
Oprah Winfreckle and Michael O'Connor are the comedians who are putting it together.
00:10:19
And I'm here for it. I mean, I'm not going to be there for it. So those both sound like fake names, which means they don't want their names to be going on to this, which means it's going to be a scorcher.
00:10:29
Oh, no. Well, go let us know, guys. No, it'll be good. I'm sure it'll be fun. Who cares if they're critical?
00:10:34
This thing, this is exactly what we're supposed to be doing at this point. Art is art.
00:10:39
We support art. We support anybody getting an idea for any reason about anything.
00:10:43
I'm doing it. Except Nazis. Okay. I have to. So I was just on vacation. A wonderful vacation.
00:10:52
I'm so happy for you. No, I really am. It sounds sincere. I know I really am, though.
00:10:57
You deserve it. Thank you. I mean that. No, that one seemed real. um but while i was there i met a truck driver named andrea who if i had 1 000 guesses of what
00:11:10
andrea did for living truck driving would be way near the end um but she came up in of course we
00:11:16
were in a bar because that's all we did was spend all of our time in bars it was hilarious
00:11:20
and um she came up and just said like everybody does i'm so sorry i'm sorry to interrupt yeah
00:11:27
They're always slightly crouching down. I'm sorry. I just want to say hi. And I love your podcast.
00:11:33
And she was on her honeymoon. I'm sorry. I don't remember her brand new husband's name.
00:11:37
I'm very sorry. It was Chuck. Chuck or Chad. Or Brian. Truck or Chad. It was Truck or Chad.
00:11:43
They met on the road. But anyway, hi to Andrea. You know, we're glad we could be there with you through your long hauls.
00:11:49
And she had the most perfect manicure. I kept wanting to go how do you drive truck with the most perfect manicure I ever seen I have a fully bandaged finger right now and I don do jack shit all day and an unmanicured finger So I am impressed Yeah it was very cool Yeah I just wanted to
00:12:07
give that shout. Oh, are you watching The Politician? No. Oh, my God. I have not. You
00:12:11
have to watch The Politician. Okay. It's so good. There's a there's like an underlying
00:12:17
Gypsy Rose Blanchard like kind of storyline. Oh my. That's so good. And it's played by Audrey Deutsch.
00:12:26
That is, I just want to watch her. I just want to watch this show. Well, that sounds,
00:12:31
I'm sold. It's a really good show. I've been looking at their, they have a series of billboards
00:12:36
on Sunset that I always look at as I go to the dentist and they're beautifully done.
00:12:41
They are gorgeous. And kind of like compelling where it's like, are those even real people?
00:12:44
It's not like that. Okay. It looks super fancy, but it's not. I mean, it is. And it's like indulgent and like a Gwyneth Paltrow because she's in it kind of way.
00:12:51
Okay. But then, oh my God. And then fucking, hold on. Oh, Jessica Lange plays the mom or the grandma with Munchausen syndrome by Proxy.
00:12:58
Yes. She is fucking incredible. Yeah. She's so good. I love that show. Wow. I didn't know Jessica Lange was on it.
00:13:05
Oh my God. Shit. Is this a Ryan Murphy joint? Of course it is. It totally is. That's part of his contract.
00:13:11
He's like, and where will Jessica Lange be participating in all of this? Jessica Lange, Zoe Deutsch characters, the grandma and daughter.
00:13:20
I could just watch them all day. It's incredible. Awesome. Whatever. Okay. That's good to know.
00:13:24
Yeah. Wait, is it on Netflix? Yeah. Okay. You'll love it. Okay, great. It's like, so your show.
00:13:29
Thank you. I need it because now I'm done with both Succession, with the combo shows, the spinoff, Succession,
00:13:34
and The Righteous Gemstones. Get it, girl. They're done. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.
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00:16:57
Me? Yeah. Okay, good. This is a story that I discovered over the summer while I did my usual cold case Googling.
00:17:05
And it turns out this is this huge story in Italy and in Europe. And it's just like everyone knows about it, but I had never heard about it.
00:17:12
Okay. This is the cold case disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi. Okay. All right. I got so much information from this from the Toronto Star article by Sandra Contenta.
00:17:22
by an all that's interesting article by Marco Margaridoff and an article at The Guardian by Harriet Sherwood and Angela Gafrida
00:17:30
and of course Wikipedia and Reddit, our best friends. I have to. Oh, I was just going to say really quick because I keep saying this every time I use Wikipedia lately.
00:17:38
Please, if you can, go donate $5 to Wikipedia. They need it. They talk about it often.
00:17:43
It's important. If you could do it, it would help us a lot because we need to make sure that we can always use Wikipedia.
00:17:49
The only way we know how. And I swear I've done it. I have too. I promise. Yeah.
00:17:53
You do it too. I do. I a good person Okay I promise Sorry Trust me Okay So this is the only this case is the only Vatican citizen ever to be kidnapped Oh shit
00:18:05
And so I'm going to need your help with this Catholic shit. Ooh. Crack, crack, crack, crack, crack.
00:18:09
I'm Jewish and I don't get it. Of course, young people go missing all the time all over the fucking world.
00:18:15
This tragic cult case is one of many. Yes. I want to make that clear. but it's become one of Italy's
00:18:22
most enduring mysteries and has yielded tons of conspiracy theories over the years
00:18:27
with some involving ties to the Pope the Mafia of course and then fucking Masons
00:18:32
that's right Karen it all goes all the way to the Lord that's right our Lord and Savior
00:18:39
Jesus Christ for whoever your Lord and Savior might be it's your decision it's your life
00:18:46
That's right. So in June of 1983, 15 year old Emanuela Orlandi had just completed her second year of high school.
00:18:54
She's this beautiful, you know, normal kid. She had grown up in Vatican City with her three sisters and brother, her mother and her father, who was a clerk in the office that scheduled meetings for Pope John Paul II.
00:19:07
Did you say beatings for Pope John Paul II? No, I wish I had. Meeting. OK, meeting.
00:19:13
Yeah, great. Many things would work there. He'd like to film him. No. So the children there have this safe, happy life in Vatican City.
00:19:22
They have free run of the Vatican Gardens. And according to Emanuela's older brother, Petro, sometimes the Pope would fucking swing by and be like, yo, what's up?
00:19:32
God is good. Whatever, whatever. Basically, it was a happy childhood. Zion. Yeah.
00:19:38
To little. To Christ. Yeah. That's right. And Emanuela was a smart, kind girl. So normal childhood, as normal as it can be living in the Vatican City.
00:19:46
I mean, just the idea of it. I know that there is a Vatican City and I know it's its own totally separate thing and all those things.
00:19:55
But the idea that people actually live there with children and stuff, I thought it was just the clergymen.
00:20:03
Yeah. That's fascinating. I'll tell you. OK. So I didn't know a lot of this. Vatican City is a sovereign state of about a thousand people.
00:20:09
So people actually live there like it's a state. OK. And it's ruled by the Pope, obviously. It was declared a sovereign state in 1929 as part of the late trend treaty between the Holy See and Italy.
00:20:22
And that's C-E-E-S-E. S-E. That's S-E-E for all you Jews out there, because I had never heard of it.
00:20:28
The Holy See is the Pope, right? Yeah. The Holy See is the universal government of the Catholic Church and the Vatican City State is a sovereign independent territory inside of Italy where it operates from.
00:20:38
Oh, it's like the Pope's whole government. Yes, but it operates from there. And he fucking, oh, he runs this shit.
00:20:45
He's a king. He's a president. He's in charge. Jay-Z to New York City. Got it. Runs this shit.
00:20:53
The Orlandi family is part of a small group of lay Vatican citizens living within the walls of the city-state.
00:20:58
Because people have to do, like, lay stuff, like Butler and, you know, Gardner. Answer the phone.
00:21:05
And schedule beatings for the Pope. Answer that red phone. Yes, the beating will be at noon.
00:21:11
Hang that phone up. That's right. So there are some lay people there. Okay. On June 27th, 1983, 15-year-old E. Manuela, who was a pretty and musically talented girl,
00:21:22
is in her second year of high school. I already fucking said that. School year recently ended, but she continues to take flute and piano lessons three times a week
00:21:30
at a school connected with the Pontifical Institute of Sacred Music. So she's good, and she's dedicated to music.
00:21:36
She better be good. That's right. The Pontifical Institute. She's also part of the church choir in the Vatican.
00:21:44
No joke. She's just like talented. I wrote highfalutin before I realized what a great pun it was because she plays the flute.
00:21:51
Oh. Highfalutin. Let me explain this. I feel like your puns come from God because they're so highfalutin as an example.
00:22:00
Thank you. You're welcome. That day, Emanuela is headed to flute class. She asked her older brother, Pietro, to drive her the mile-long bus.
00:22:09
No, to drive her. He's like, nope, I can't do it. They get in a fight. And, of course, he regrets it every fucking day of his life.
00:22:16
And it's so sad. I hate those parts of these stories. That's right. She instead takes the bus to class.
00:22:21
A traffic cop and a constable later come forward and say that they saw her in front of the Italian Senate talking to a young man in a green BMW.
00:22:29
But the Senate security cameras weren't working that day, so they didn't catch anything.
00:22:33
I know. After class around 7pm, Emanuela calls home and talks to one of her sisters.
00:22:39
She tells her that a man had offered to pay her almost $200 to distribute pamphlets for Avon.
00:22:46
Yeah. At a fashion show that weekend. What? Because I thought people used to come up to you and be like,
00:22:52
Do you want a job? A cash job? Yeah, kind of. An 83? Maybe, but... Pretty girl. I just need teenagers to do this cheap job for me.
00:23:01
How about you apply for a job? Like, at where? at the warehouse and then you don't have to worry about getting a job through a car window from
00:23:07
someone you don't know. I mean, I feel like in 83, that was just like a thing. I mean, yes,
00:23:12
total possibility. Who knows? There's so many red herrings in this that in like some, so many clues
00:23:17
that you don't know that they, if they leave anywhere or not. So this could just be a normal
00:23:21
thing. Here's the other thing I'd like to call it into suspicion. Yeah. Not a lot of dudes working
00:23:26
for Avon in my experience, my aunt, some neighbor ladies, but it's pretty much a, it's a woman based
00:23:33
industry and a $200 is a lot of fucking money in 83. Yeah. Like just to do a cheap job.
00:23:39
You talk about 50 bucks here. Yeah. That's like, yes. I think it seems sketchy. It seems super.
00:23:45
Cause wouldn't it be like $1,500 in today's money? Probably roughly. I don't know if it's about Italian money.
00:23:52
Yeah. I know. Lira. Really? I don't know. I believe it. Uh, she was given, uh, she,
00:24:00
She told him she would answer that evening after asking her parents, but her sister said they weren't home.
00:24:05
That was the last anyone ever heard from Emanuela. When she doesn't return home by the next day, she's officially declared a missing person.
00:24:12
And over the next two days, announcements of the disappearance are published and like missing posters go up with the Orlandi home phone number written on them.
00:24:22
Oh, no. Yeah, like call with any clues. So a few days later, a 16-year-old boy calls to say he and his fiance had run into her the day she disappeared.
00:24:32
He reports, it's all this crazy shit. He said that they met her at a local square.
00:24:37
They described her correctly, like her glasses and her flute, and she told them that she had run away from home and was selling Avon products.
00:24:46
So it kind of matched up. A couple days after that, a man who owns a bar between the Vatican City and the music school named Mario calls and says that a girl matching Emanuela's description had confided in him about being a runaway and said that she would return home for her sister's wedding, which was truthful, and that she was supposed to play the flute in the sister's wedding, which was also true.
00:25:09
Okay. So it kind of made them think like maybe she's just a runaway. By July, Rome has over 3,000 posters with Emanuela's photograph and her disappearance becomes a national story.
00:25:19
And like it's a face that I think anyone in Italy would know as like the missing girl.
00:25:24
Yeah. It's like it's like a huge story to them. Yeah. And it becomes a national story, especially when on Sunday, July 3rd, during his weekly public Sunday prayer at St. Peter's Square, Pope John Paul II makes a public appeal about Emanuela's disappearance.
00:25:40
Oh, my God. And says that she was basically applies that she was kidnapped and prays for her speedy return.
00:25:46
And this is the first time that Emanuela's family had even considered kidnapping.
00:25:49
They thought she was a runaway. Right. But for some reason, the Pope was like, she's been like, does he have more information than we know?
00:25:55
Oh, right. Yeah. Or maybe he's just hoping, like many, many families do when people go missing.
00:26:03
Fucking Pope. I know. Like this big fucking... I don't know. Maybe he was like trying to turn a...
00:26:08
Like it's not... I don't know. I don't know. But that's also... It's so heavy that the Pope said something about her.
00:26:16
Right. It's such a big deal. It's also the fact that there was the first person to be kidnapped in the Vatican City.
00:26:22
Right. But I'm saying usually in situations like that, those kinds of institutions brush it under the rug.
00:26:27
It's like no nothing bad's ever happened. Right. Like Disneyland won't let anybody die on their property type of thing.
00:26:33
Yes, exactly. The Vatican is very similar to Disneyland. That's right. It's good to know that they have better laws there.
00:26:40
Disneyland City, as we know, is a sovereign state and the independent territory inside of Anaheim where it operates from.
00:26:49
Established in 1923. That's right. Got it. Um, okay. So now months before the kidnapping, a friend of Emanuela's named Raffaella,
00:26:58
these names probably sound so beautiful when said by an Italian person. Yes, absolutely.
00:27:02
So this gal is the daughter of the Pope's butler. And he told her father that she was being followed
00:27:09
by a man who had tailed her on six separate days as she rode the bus to school. And this is a few
00:27:14
months before Emanuela had gone missing. Her father had warned her that there was a rumor
00:27:18
of a possible kidnapping being planned. And because of this, this girl, Raffaella,
00:27:23
was transferred to a different school and wasn't allowed to leave Vatican City alone.
00:27:27
So this might be a pattern. Okay. And when the claim is investigated by an Italian intelligence officer,
00:27:32
when the detective comes to fucking check it out, he's taken off the case and given a desk job.
00:27:37
Oh. So it might go all the way. All the way to the top. Two days after the Pope's appeal,
00:27:42
the Orlandi family receives the first of a number of anonymous phone calls. One call reports,
00:27:48
Emanuela is supposedly the prisoner of a terrorist group. Okay. Now in Italy at this time,
00:27:55
Italy is the largest communist party in the West at the time. And this is a time of fucking crazy violence and political unrest and like mafia stuff.
00:28:03
It's almost like a cold war inside the country, you know, like fighting foreign factions.
00:28:07
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. As well as by extremist national groups. Wow. So like not a good time to be there and be,
00:28:14
be walking around as a teenager. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Two days after the Pope's appeal, the Orlandi family receives the first of a number of anonymous phone calls.
00:28:23
Okay. Okay. The caller in this one says that in exchange for Emmanuel is released, they demand the release of Mehmet Ali Agha.
00:28:32
Mehmet is a Turkish man who – did you know that the fucking – that Pope John Paul II was shot?
00:28:37
Yes. In attempted assassination? And then he forgave his assassin. Yes. Okay. That's crazy.
00:28:43
It's super crazy. And also, that's why when he when the Pope came and toured America, he was in the Popemobile that was like he was basically in what looks like one of those old trouble where the dice pops back up.
00:28:54
But he put a Pope in there. Yeah. Yes. Because because of that. Because of this guy.
00:28:59
Because. Oh, because this guy that actually shot him. So the person who's calling is demanding the release of the dude who shot him, who shot him four fucking times and hit him.
00:29:08
And he fucking survived. He survived. In 1981. So they're saying that they kidnapped Emanuela to trade her for this prisoner.
00:29:17
Okay. He's in prison now. Yeah. Well, don't you think he should be, though? Yeah.
00:29:22
Wait, why are you on the Turk side? I'm not. I'm saying a fact. Right, right. Defend it.
00:29:29
He's also responsible for the murder of a left-wing journalist and human rights advocate named Abdi Pecky.
00:29:35
no other information is given but Pietro the brother says when they asked to exchange Emanuela to us
00:29:41
it meant she was alive so this is like the first time that they are being asked to trade
00:29:45
that means she's like it gave them kind of hope like held somewhere even though the request was absurd they were like it's not going to
00:29:51
fucking happen but at least she's alive yeah so in the following days other calls are received including one from a man who becomes and he calls himself the American because he American or has an American accent I don know
00:30:05
He plays a recording, allegedly, of Emanuel's voice over the phone. He also wants to arrange a deal for Emanuel's return in exchange for Mehmet Al Agha's release.
00:30:17
The guy who shot at the Pope. Yeah. he says that the calls from the two men remember the two guys from the day of that were like oh
00:30:23
she was in my bar and said she was a runaway and we met her in the square those were like his men
00:30:28
oh and they were calling to um try to slow down the investigation by uh insinuating that she was
00:30:34
a runaway yeah i was gonna say that part of it is like then the family is finding out like she was
00:30:39
gonna run away we didn't think she was gonna run away right so they stop looking as hard and they
00:30:43
are they're waiting and they have information about her that was like kind of correct so they
00:30:47
that could possibly be true. I think it is. Um, but if they were following the other girl that was then not allowed to go
00:30:54
anywhere by herself for days and days, it's easy to find out stuff like that. If they're just walking behind and eavesdropping,
00:31:00
like seeing where she goes and her flute shit. Yeah. Yeah. So, um, the, he says the calls from the two men who claimed to steer that day,
00:31:08
uh, are members of his organization, which is a Turkish extremist nationals group called the gray wolves.
00:31:14
And like, these guys are fucking in the mix at this time too. like fighting with italy okay another call from the american dude led to a bag in a garbage bin
00:31:24
with a photocopy of sheet music by a composer that emanuela had been studying so these are
00:31:30
all the all the like clues that they give and like there's one that's like she has six moles
00:31:35
on her back she has all her friends have dark hair like nothing conclusively leads like
00:31:41
points to her. Proves that she's with them. It doesn't seem like it. Right. But a copy of her music school registration
00:31:47
card was found inside a public garbage bin. But it was a copy. So, like, who knows where that came from? Right.
00:31:53
So, in an interview in prison, this guy, Ogkad, declares that Emanuela was kidnapped by Bulgarian
00:31:59
agents of the Great Wolves. He himself, Mohamed, he claims that the KGB had put him up to the shooting of the Pope
00:32:06
all along. So, the fucking KGB is in here now. Whoa, God. And that the other another 15 year old girl actually had gone missing at the same time as Emanuela did.
00:32:16
Mariela Gregory, she was abducted at the same time as Emanuela. And he says it's part of a plan to secure his release from prison.
00:32:23
So like these two young 15 year old girls had been kidnapped for this reason. He claims that the girls were taken to a royal palace in Liechtenstein where they're living in a convent.
00:32:33
Over the years, there's been an insane amount of theories circulated in the Italian press and with Italians.
00:32:38
Like they go crazy over this. I'm not getting into all of them. I would highly recommend if you want to know more to read the article in the Toronto Star about this.
00:32:47
It goes fucking deep. But in 2005, another anonymous call comes to an Italian TV show saying that the tomb of the gangster Enrico Di Padilla has evidence that would help in the disappearance of Emanuela.
00:32:58
Oh, OK. So this guy said they're like, look, check out the tomb. Enrico Di Padilla had been a leader of the Vanda della Magliani gang.
00:33:08
which was at the top of Rome's criminal world. So they were like the criminal fucking overlords.
00:33:13
And this guy was like part of it. In February 1990, D.P.D.S. was shot and killed by rival members of his gang
00:33:18
and buried at St. Apollinaire's crypt at one of Rome's most prestigious churches.
00:33:25
Okay. And all these people are like, why the fuck is this guy who was in the mafia
00:33:29
buried in this prestigious crypt? Buried there in numerous cardinals and senior members of the Vatican.
00:33:36
and burials hadn't occurred for over a century there. Okay. So suddenly they're opening it back up.
00:33:43
Right. That's fucking weird. Okay. And it also just happened to be attached to the building where I'm in while I had studied music.
00:33:49
Ooh. Yeah. Okay. But isn't... Not to... Please. But just sitting back... This is a whole case.
00:33:55
Let's go ahead and... Okay. Because it's such a tiny place that everything is going to...
00:34:00
Vatican City and like Vatican... But what about outside of it? I mean, I don't know.
00:34:06
I'm just saying if it's close by, right? That's right. You would just, it's all kind of connected.
00:34:11
Yeah, and it might not mean anything. But the fact that a notorious gangster was buried at the sacred place made everyone go,
00:34:17
what the fuck? And so was that not like known until this came out? It wasn't known until it came out.
00:34:21
Ooh, okay. It had been years and people were like, hang on a second. Yeah, something's going on here.
00:34:26
Jesus say what? There were all kinds of gang ties and this like fucking crazy, crazy evil messianic groups
00:34:33
like that I'm not getting into. The Illuminati? Yeah, probably. Okay. Like, I think they laugh at the Illuminati because they're like, that's bullshit.
00:34:40
And everyone knows about them. That's right. That's not a secret group. This is like some crazy Masonic group that like killed their fucking like banker and shit.
00:34:48
Oh. Banana stuff. Sure. They deal with money laundering through the Vatican. So all this money is being laundered through the Vatican with this fucking game, like mafia team.
00:34:57
Okay. I don't know what they call themselves. It's a team. Like soccer. Yeah. And all kinds of suspicious deaths happen.
00:35:03
But basically, it's theorized that Emanuela was kidnapped to blackmail the Vatican into giving back the money it owed this gang that this guy belonged to.
00:35:11
And it's said that they did get the money back thanks to a deal cut by this guy, Enrico de Padillas.
00:35:16
And part of that deal that he cut was, I want to be buried in one of these fucking crypts.
00:35:21
Whoa. Right? Okay. It's like adding on it. I know they're going to give me whatever I want.
00:35:25
I also want this. Okay. It's kind of a large ask. I would like to be buried with saints and cardinals.
00:35:33
Yeah, but it's like you got us back $200 million. Oh, true. Okay, you can. Yeah, okay.
00:35:38
And we need you to get this money back for us or we look really bad or whatever the fuck.
00:35:42
Okay. Deepa Diaz's former lover named Sabrina, she said that she had seen Emanuela after her kidnapping
00:35:48
and that she had been held by the Deepa Diaz's gang for several months. She also claimed she saw Emanuela lifeless body in a sack before it was dumped in a cement mixer I know On a construction site in a seaside town in Rome But she might be a little crazy
00:36:06
And also, the construction site, it turns out, had been built after, you know, before.
00:36:13
It had already been built? Yes. Yeah. So, it wasn't credible, but there's some weird credible shit that she has information of.
00:36:19
Yeah. But she also might be like, I don't know. Well, they always say that, right?
00:36:25
That's the ultimate disqualifier. She is so crazy. And then it's a person just going, I actually witnessed this entire thing.
00:36:32
And oh, and then no one believes you. Right. That's very true. Yeah. Anyway, the Orlandi family lobbies the Vatican to open De Padua's tomb.
00:36:39
Because remember, they had said that look in there and you'll find some information.
00:36:43
The Vatican actually agrees to open the tomb, which is crazy. When it's opened on May 13th, 2012, only Padua's remains are inside.
00:36:52
Oh, I know. Bummer. Still, the links there I find very interesting. Yes. Yeah. Very.
00:36:59
The most disturbing theory revolves around a concerted effort on behalf of the Vatican,
00:37:03
local police, and regional lawmakers to kidnap young girls like Emanuela Orlandi and Muriela
00:37:09
Grigori and force them to be sex slaves. What's that TV show we watched a long time ago that had similar undertones?
00:37:16
Top of the Lake. Top of the Lake. Top of the Lake. Good job. It goes all the way to the top of the lake.
00:37:22
Okay. In May 2012, also an 85-year-old exorcist named Gabriele Amorth claims that Orlando was kidnapped by a member of the Vatican police for sex parties and then murdered.
00:37:34
That's what he says. But this guy is fucking like the kind of guy who's like, Harry Potter is Satan and shit.
00:37:39
Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? Sure. He claims that an official of an unnamed foreign embassy was involved as well.
00:37:45
But he's a little cuckoo, but like maybe like a little bit of what he says is true.
00:37:48
Well, I feel like these days when we are actively watching all conspiracy theories come to life in front of our eyes, it's getting easier and easier to believe every theory of everything.
00:38:00
Because you're just like, yeah, those exist. Yes, this has been proven to be real.
00:38:04
And the cuckoo people are the ones who actually come forward and don't mind seeming cuckoo by fucking saying these things.
00:38:09
Right. All right. Yeah. Well, we're saying it. We're saying it. And we're the craziest of all.
00:38:14
Another theory says that Emanuela was kidnapped by spies acting for the former Soviet Union and used to blackmail Pope John Paul II into ending support for Poland's dissident solidarity union movement.
00:38:26
Lech Walesa? That was a big thing in the 80s. Really? Yeah, it was a big deal. It was just that Poland was basically getting liberated.
00:38:34
And I think it was through, like, it got, it became international news. Lech Walesa was the leader of that party that basically was, basically everyone's just like, oh, yeah.
00:38:44
people need to have freedom. Okay. It's the kind of thing. It might have also had something to do with communist Russia,
00:38:51
but I shouldn't talk about any of this. I'm just basically saying, this is like me talking about old Scooby-Doo episodes,
00:38:57
except for it was the politics that I absorbed as like a seven-year-old, essentially.
00:39:02
Put the news on it all. All times, yep. Okay. No, this was back when the news only came on from six to seven.
00:39:08
And your parents left it on. Yeah. All right. Then this last year, The family's lawyer received an ominous note, which contained a photograph of a tomb and an angel who was like watching over the tomb like a concrete, I don't know, angel.
00:39:23
A statue? Thank you. And it said then the angel was pointing down at the tombs and the photograph said, seek where the angel indicates.
00:39:34
That's straight out of the Da Vinci Code. That's right. I mean, okay. This is like Da Vinci Code business.
00:39:39
It really is. Okay, in reference to the marble angel guarding the crypt in question.
00:39:44
This clue leads to the Pontifical Teutonic Cemetery in the Vatican, where there's an angel statue that's pointing at some tombs.
00:39:51
So plans are made to open the fucking tombs. Really? This is where I came in with my late night cold case.
00:39:58
Yes, okay. The cemetery normally houses the remains of German-speaking Catholic members,
00:40:03
but like fucking 1800s we're talking. Okay. So this past July, it's what, October right now?
00:40:09
this past July, 2019, the Vatican opens the tombs. Oh, in them are supposed to be the remains of princess Sophie of whole and low and
00:40:18
the Duchess Charlotte, Frederica. Okay. In it is the remains of no one, no bodies,
00:40:29
no one. Oh, not the princess or the Duchess or Emanuela. It's an empty tomb, which means people have been taking it taken out of the tomb.
00:40:39
Right, right. After it had been opened, they find an underground space inside the pontifical tectonic college, which had been covered by a manhole. Inside of that is thousands of bones that appear to be from dozens of individuals, both, quote, adult and non-adult. But they look ancient, but they're DNA testing them now. They're currently conducting an investigation into the whereabouts of the princesses as well.
00:41:03
Oh, my God. I know. So they basically opened the tomb and a new mystery started.
00:41:07
That's right. A simultaneous mystery. That's right. Which people think like just goes to show you there's some fucking crazy Vatican mystery shit going on.
00:41:15
Yes, because they don't have to explain anything to anybody. No. There is a rumor that there's a Vatican, like a secret museum under the Vatican that has like old dinosaurs.
00:41:26
Stephen, you'll be interested in this. Like old rare dinosaurs and things that like, you know, they're like, it's the Loch Ness Monster and blah, blah, blah.
00:41:32
Like there's things there that they've never released out because the Vatican doesn't want the general public to know about it.
00:41:40
And it doesn't fit into their norm of like, this is what happened and this is what's going on.
00:41:43
And here's the narrative. And that's the narrative you believe. Like if you shake people's faith, thinking that their faith is smaller than than what actually is, people lose their fucking shit.
00:41:53
That's right. That's right. Not us No we consider all options That right Not murderinos We want to know the truth we want to know what in that basement um there no basement at the Vatican excuse me
00:42:08
excuse me there are podcasts out there that try so hard to do this for real and we don't
00:42:16
god damn it please go listen to one of those after this that's right there's rumors that Emmanuel
00:42:21
is not only alive and her brother knows about it. And her brother is like the advocate that's trying to fucking get the Vatican
00:42:27
to fess up. Someone is spreading a rumor that E. Manuel is masquerading as her brother's wife.
00:42:35
No. So bad that one reporter starts stalking his family for months trying to prove
00:42:41
the theory. She wraps tape around her finger and stumbles into his mother, E. Manuel's mother
00:42:47
to get a sample of her hair for DNA testing. And rummages through the garbage at his
00:42:53
house and takes his wife's used tampons. Oh, no. It's like this is their fucking JonBenet.
00:42:59
Yeah. Yeah. Sounds like it. Petra says nothing surprises him anymore. So the disappearance has been linked to the KGB,
00:43:08
the attempted murder of the Pope, the Vatican connection to the mob, satanic orgies and money
00:43:12
laundering at the Vatican Bank, among other things. But ultimately, there's no tangible
00:43:16
proof of what actually happened to Emanuela over three decades ago. And although a lot of red
00:43:21
herrings and conspiracies may have clouded over the facts. So there's, that's one of those things where there's so much fucking things to trace in
00:43:28
places that lead nowhere that who knows what's real at this point. Right. Like who even knows who saw her that day and who's telling the truth.
00:43:35
Right. Who was misleading people on purpose. Right. What was real. Also, you know,
00:43:40
1983 is basically like saying 1883 in terms of police, you know, forensic anything or all the,
00:43:48
you know, people have, They need to go back to the original police file and start there because it's the most simple.
00:43:54
And that's usually where the answer is. True. True. But it's also I it's so sad to me because it is that thing of like whatever the answer is.
00:44:03
It's that the victimization of like a teenage girl. Yeah. It's like we'll use you for whatever the plot is, whatever the crime is.
00:44:11
It's there's an innocent girl and her family. Totally. And it could just be some fucking sicko who kidnapped her.
00:44:17
Right. Yeah. And he's never going to get his fucking justice. Right. Because everyone's like, oh, it's a satanic whatever.
00:44:24
We're just like, oh, no. What about if there's just a serial killer or a serial predator that just doesn't get caught?
00:44:31
Exactly. Emanuela's mother, Maria, who's now in her 80s, she set a plate for her missing daughter at Christmas for years after she went missing.
00:44:39
Emanuela's father passed away in 2004. in march of 2013 the first sunday mass of his pontificate tation his first fucking sunday mass
00:44:50
pope francis gave a sermon and after the mass he greeted every person who left the sermon
00:44:55
he shook maria the mother's hand and said emmanuela is in heaven to which the brother
00:45:01
pietro responded until there's proof to the contrary i live and hope that she's alive and
00:45:06
i hope you will help me find the truth yeah to which the pope responded she's in heaven
00:45:11
what petri himself thinks that the um the muhammad ali agka angle was a red herring the
00:45:20
guy who shot at the pope yeah he says i believe pope john paul had to weigh the truth about
00:45:25
imanuela against the image of the church and he made a choice i believe he knows what happened
00:45:30
so a lot of people think that they could have gotten her back and it could have there could
00:45:35
have been some kind of trade but it would have just ousted so many fucking stories and so many
00:45:41
secrets that to them it wasn't worth it. They didn't do it. There's also the possibility, because the Catholic Church
00:45:47
has a very bad habit and reputation of covering up for priests and clergymen that it's just
00:45:57
some local pedophile clergyman that did it and they found out about it and they're
00:46:03
covering for him. It's a proven fact that they do that. It's not a fucking... No, we're not just saying it.
00:46:09
Yeah, we all know. We everybody saw Spotlight. We know how things go. Well, Pietro is undeterred.
00:46:15
He refuses to stop searching for answers as to what happened to his little sister.
00:46:19
And that is the story of the disappearance of Emanuela Orlandi. Oh, the cold cases are the saddest.
00:46:26
I know. It's really awful. And it's like, yeah, that family that they don't have an answer.
00:46:32
So it doesn't help that the pope says she's in heaven. Right. Because that doesn't prove anything.
00:46:37
And they need proof so that they can at least be in a different space than not knowing.
00:46:44
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Goodbye. Well, so what's funny is, can I tell the story of, so Georgia told me last week that she wanted to do the story she just did, but she said, it's all about the Vatican and I don't understand you people what you're doing with your big weird church city state.
00:49:48
Yeah. Holy see, I learned a lot, by the way. Thank you so much. I did too. as a lapsed Catholic.
00:49:56
So, she said, what if I do this, and then you basically gave me my murder for this week. Yeah, I wanted
00:50:04
to trade you this for this. But instead, we're doing... Oh, you wanted to trade so you could do this? Yeah.
00:50:11
No, but I'm fine just getting the credit. Speak as if... Yeah, you get the credit for the switch. No, no, that's fine. Oh, yeah.
00:50:16
Oh, okay. Well, good to know. I'm at it. So, So with your suggestion, this week I'm doing The Overstegen Sisters and Hany Schaft Teenage Nazi Assassins.
00:50:31
Ah, ah, ah, ah, yeah, yeah. This story is very cool. I don't even know that much about it, so I'm really excited for this.
00:50:41
Oh, really? Yeah, I just have read little basic articles. I can't believe that there hasn't been.
00:50:46
There's one movie made about it just about Hany Schaft. But I can't believe there hasn't been a movie
00:50:52
And hopefully there will be Because it's really incredible Well I feel like Quentin Tarantino's movie
00:50:58
What was it called? Inglourious Bastards Kind of like has some hints of that It absolutely does
00:51:04
And it's kind of like the idea of a fascist To the degree of Adolf Hitler And the insanity and the speed freakiness
00:51:10
Of Adolf Hitler Taking over almost all of Europe I think it's cool that he made that movie
00:51:16
Because it basically shows How many people had to rise up against the Nazis and fight in their own versions of the resistance and be spies.
00:51:27
And before that, they just owned a shoe store. They just were someone's wife or daughter.
00:51:31
It was imperative. It was life or death. It was life or death. And it is the kind of thing where people slowly watch this takeover happen.
00:51:38
But everybody thought, not in my country. There's no way it could happen here. There's a lot of that.
00:51:43
Or they were like, yes, in my country, I want this to happen. Right. And that's the scary thing is that there became this dividing line.
00:51:49
So it's cool to hear these stories because you we see lots of movies about the brave soldiers and all the people that fought against like the Axis powers.
00:52:01
And that's all cool. But like teenage girl resistance fighters, I think, is a story that's so timely and and perfect.
00:52:08
So I got information from Smithsonian Magazine, The Washington Post, Wikipedia. Again, please donate five dollars.
00:52:17
History dot com, The New York Times. And then a woman named Sophie Poldermont's.
00:52:24
I think that's how you pronounce her name. She wrote a book I found out about Sophie Poldermont's book because I stumbled upon in trying to look up a podcast that could kind of succinctly tell tell me the story.
00:52:38
I found this podcast called Inspiring Women hosted by a woman named Kate Daniels.
00:52:44
That is the loveliest. It's like your favorite high school teacher hosting a podcast to talk about these women that we don't get to hear about as much as we should.
00:52:54
I love it. Okay. So I'll give you and and I do apologize. I am not a World War Two scholar.
00:53:01
Wait, what? No, this is a lot of people are going to be disappointed after this.
00:53:05
This is a mispronunciation episode. episode like Karen and Georgia. This is the let's tread into areas
00:53:10
we do not belong. Let's trade religions. Yeah. And just see what we have to say.
00:53:16
But stories that are so worth telling. So, okay. Let's first talk about the, this is how she pronounces
00:53:22
it on the podcast. So I'm just imitating a Dutch woman who's clearly this is how you're supposed to say it.
00:53:28
Pruis. Pruis Overstegen is born on August 29th, 1923, and her younger sister Freddie, very easy to pronounce.
00:53:40
You said that wrong. Right. Oh, Freddie. Yeah. She's born two years later on September 6, 1925 in Scotten, Netherlands, which is a small
00:53:50
Dutch village that sits in what is now known as the city of Harlem So the family lives the Overstagen family uh all together on a large ship fun fun um and the sisters are raised by very socially aware communist parents so their mother
00:54:09
makes a point of instilling a keen sense of justice in her daughters from a very early age
00:54:14
so they spent their childhoods doing stuff like um uh making dolls for the child victims of the
00:54:21
It's a Spanish civil war. Yeah. A lot of awareness about like, you know, what's going on with other people and helping out.
00:54:28
And both of her parents, both of their parents are members of the International Red Aid, which is a social service group organized by the Communist International.
00:54:38
I've never heard of that before. Great job. Communist International. This is research that I'm reading.
00:54:44
Okay. But their parents get divorced when their mom gets fed up because the father doesn't work that much and doesn't make enough money.
00:54:50
Sure. It's an amicable split, but after she takes her daughters off the ship, they don't see much of their father after that.
00:54:58
The family, the now smaller family moves to a flat where they sleep on straw mattresses that their mother makes by hand.
00:55:07
Freddie was later quoted as saying that they didn't have much, but her mother always was able to figure something out.
00:55:13
And the family was always singing. Oh, shut up. Yeah, come on. So cute. Stick it together and helping out.
00:55:20
Okay. Eventually, their mother remarries and then gives birth to a third child, a boy.
00:55:27
And so now Freddie and Pruess have a little half-brother. So now I'm just going to very lightly and very badly explain to you World War II.
00:55:37
Just let me do it my way. Oh, no. If only you could take a shot of Paul Holt's whiskey.
00:55:41
Could you imagine? Essentially, I just tried to boil it. Everybody knows. We've all watched the History Channel one million times.
00:55:48
Yes. But essentially... Read the book Mouse. Read, look at the book M-A-U-S. The graphic novel Mouse M-A-U-S is from the point of view of a survivor of a Nazi concentration camp.
00:56:03
It's one of the most incredible things I've ever read. It's so incredible and horrifying.
00:56:09
And what a terrible time. So essentially, Germany lost World War I. And so did everybody else, because there was such incredible loss of human life, unlike anything anyone had ever seen before.
00:56:22
Obviously, it was called World War One, but it was horrifying. And there's, you know, go see any movie about that, because people didn't even know how badly it was going to impact soldiers and the human beings.
00:56:37
There was just so much, so much loss of life. So unlike anything anyone's seen before.
00:56:43
And Germany afterwards, it was, you know, there's the whole story of the Deutsche Mark.
00:56:48
It basically became useless. They got humiliated. They were humiliated. They were all poor.
00:56:53
Their money was worth nothing. It was like, it was terrible. And the problem with that is, and when people are oppressed with poverty, with all those things, then people rise to power who like to convince them that their misfortune, there's a certain group that's responsible.
00:57:11
What a great feeling that there's just one group that's responsible for all the things that's happened to a country.
00:57:17
And it makes it easy. It makes it very easy. And you can you can, you know, focus all your hate in one direction.
00:57:23
It's simplistic. It's and it and it catches because it's the basest human reaction is, oh, it's not my fault.
00:57:32
It's your fault. Yeah. And oh, if I get rid of you, all of my suffering will end.
00:57:37
Not true. Obviously, most people hopefully either know that by now or will learn it.
00:57:43
So let's now skip to 1933 when Adolf Hitler is appointed chancellor of Germany. And he immediately organizes a campaign of violence and intimidation against Jewish people throughout Germany carried out by the Nazi party.
00:57:59
So according to Hitler, who, as I said before, was on tons of speed. And that should never be discounted because white drugs are very bad for the brain.
00:58:08
Um, and white drugs with megalomaniac. Yeah. You're just gonna. And with a little art school heartbreak in there.
00:58:14
Oh, it's, oh, it's not, it's not good. Okay. So, so according to Hitler, the Jews were to blame for everything that happened to the
00:58:23
motherland, um, since world war one. And even before that, because Jewish people had throughout history have become scapegoats.
00:58:31
Um, uh, for any time there was anything happening in a community. And this is this is something like from other stories that you hear where it's like, oh, it's if if young boys are being killed in a town, it's the Jews that just traveled through.
00:58:47
They did it instead of no, it's actually a thing called a serial killer that you won't know about for a hundred more years.
00:58:53
And it's it's I don't have to tell you it's been going on for a while. But the problem here was this his vicious campaign of propaganda, scapegoating and racism.
00:59:04
It starts with Jewish business owners, but soon it spreads to all Jewish people.
00:59:09
And the downtrodden Germans wanted to blame their poverty and their failure and their heartache on anyone else.
00:59:16
And they now had a government sanctioned target. And this, combined with the comforting yet psychotic fantasy that Aryan blood made them the most superior beings on Earth, became this intoxicating drug that the nation began shooting up with abandon, thanks to Adolf Hitler.
00:59:35
So with these most based hatreds justified and their worst insecurities erased, the violence
00:59:41
of Nazism quickly spread beyond its German borders. And Freddy and Pruis, who were eight and I think 12, grew up witnessing the inhumanity
00:59:53
of the Nazi party firsthand They see the propaganda they see the cruelty they see the intimidation and it solidifies their drive to fight for justice So Freddy Truist and their mother they all very
01:00:07
vocal about their resistance. They hand out anti-Nazi leaflets in their town, and they deface
01:00:13
German propaganda posters that called on Dutch men to come and work in Germany. So they were in it
01:00:20
Before World War II was even declared. Oh, yeah. Throw a tag up on that. Right? No way.
01:00:25
Say no way as early as you can. Yeah. Freddie's mother begins routinely hiding Jewish refugees who are from Amsterdam and Germany in their home before the war even started.
01:00:36
Amazing. In 1934, the girls gave up their bedroom to start housing Jewish families who needed to go into hiding.
01:00:44
Wow. So in early 1940, when Freddie is 14 and Truis is 16, the sisters get a visit from France of Vanderveille.
01:00:54
I'm nailing these names. You're doing great. And he is the commander for the Harlem Council of Resistance.
01:01:03
And he formally invites the family to join in the fight. And he explains that it'll involve military training.
01:01:10
And the girls are like, we're in entirely, of course. They're very excited about the idea of, quote, starting a kind of secret army to fight the Nazis.
01:01:21
And the sisters become the first two women to join the then seven person resistance group.
01:01:27
Yes. So it's a tiny little group. And these girls are all in. Fuck yeah. And just in time, because in May of 1940, the Nazis invade the Netherlands.
01:01:37
And with a Nazi occupation now a reality, the work of the resistance becomes crucial.
01:01:42
So there isn't enough time for Freddie and Truist to get the military training that they were promised.
01:01:48
But they are taught how to march and shoot in the seclusion of the woods. So they get they they learn some stuff.
01:01:55
And once their training is complete, the teen sisters begin their daring acts of resistance.
01:02:01
So one of the main things that they were doing was transporting Jewish families and refugees to designated hiding spots.
01:02:08
and they were very involved with doing that. In fact, early on, Truist was in a boat filled with Jewish children
01:02:18
that they were trying to ship out of the area and the Nazis bombed the boat and all of the children drowned.
01:02:25
So these young girls, and I mean, we're talking about teenage girls, saw some horrific, horrific acts of war firsthand
01:02:34
that would then go on to propel them to basically match the horror. Yeah. Because they knew they had to.
01:02:44
So they did things like they blew up railways with dynamite. They planted once a communist flag at the Nazi headquarters.
01:02:55
And they rode around on their bikes. And it just seemed like they were two young girls, pretty girls,
01:03:01
were riding around on bikes. and the Nazis never suspected that they were actually two resistance fighters.
01:03:08
And if they had and stopped them, they would have found that the girls were riding around with handguns in their baskets
01:03:14
because they weren't out for joy rides. They were tracking Nazi targets. So basically, the resistance would name the ranking,
01:03:25
usually a high ranking Nazi officer. And then the girls would go out and find them and track them.
01:03:31
and corner them and basically ambush them, shoot and kill them, and then right away unsuspected.
01:03:39
Oh, my God. And just I will make the point that Sophie makes on the Inspiring Women podcast.
01:03:46
There was no operating judicial system in the Nazi-occupied Netherlands. Right. So it was a Nazi government now.
01:03:55
They were there. They took over, and they had to fight them. Yeah. And they had to do something.
01:04:00
There was nobody looking out for them. Yeah. And meanwhile, you know, they built Dachau, I think, in the early 30s.
01:04:07
So, concentration camps were going there. Yeah, that's right. I mean, they were sending almost everybody there, unless you were deemed pure white and all that shit.
01:04:17
But in the beginning, it was communists and resistance fighters and all that shit.
01:04:20
Anybody that was developmentally disabled, anybody that was blind, handicapped, if you were somehow discovered to be gay,
01:04:28
Yeah, they were sending people there. You know, I think we all know this in all the different ways. But I mean, it was it was I mean, it's ridiculous to say it was it was a nightmare or something like that. But I mean, the world had turned upside down in Europe.
01:04:47
Um, okay. So, uh, so Freddie becomes very adept at this idea of being able to ride around cause she looks younger than all of them, obviously. Um, so she was actually the first member of this resistance to kill a Nazi.
01:05:04
and um later truess would say about this work uh that she paid the price that they all did because
01:05:12
it wasn't it wasn't something that they were cocky about right she said quote it was tragic
01:05:17
very difficult and we cried about it every time afterwards we did not feel it suited us
01:05:23
it never suits anybody unless they are real criminals but one loses everything it poisons
01:05:29
the beautiful things in life. Yeah, if you're someone who's fighting for your freedom and for citizens' freedom,
01:05:36
you don't want to murder someone. No. But you have no choice. Right. You have no choice.
01:05:43
And you're seeing, I mean, you know, we know what the Nazis did just in the day-to-day.
01:05:48
These are people who came and had absolutely no humanity to them, you know. So then the next phase of the plan started as they got a little bit older which is the sisters began to frequent bars where German officers hung out and they would get all dressed up and look really beautiful and go and flirt with the Nazis
01:06:12
And then they would lure them out into the woods where either they would shoot them or the members of the resistance would be hiding and they would get ambushed and shot.
01:06:22
Oh, my God. Yeah. that's what you get for being a Nazi that's right and so then in the spring
01:06:29
between spring and summer of 1943 another young woman by the name of Hani Schaft joins the Harlem
01:06:38
Council of Resistance so she'd actively been fighting against the Nazis in the Netherlands
01:06:43
herself she was stealing ID cards for Jewish residents so that they could be protected and
01:06:49
escaping and so that They can be protected. Sorry. The Council of Resistance approached Hani because they heard that she had left school.
01:06:59
After refusing to sign a pledge of loyalty to the Nazi soldiers, her university was forcing all of the students to sign.
01:07:07
So she was like, fuck all y'all and leave school. And the resistance is like, hey, come and join our team.
01:07:15
Yeah, we need this. so together Freddy, Truus and Hany successfully assassinate many high ranking Nazi officials
01:07:25
but on March 20 and it goes on for a while so that then the Nazis start to catch on that people are being murdered and how
01:07:33
is this happening and Hany had red hair so eventually the story starts to come out that you have to be careful
01:07:41
of the girl with the red hair so on March 21st 1945 Hany is riding her bike transporting underground papers and a pistol when she's stopped by Nazis at a checkpoint.
01:07:54
And because they all know and have been warned about the girl with red hair, they search her bike and they find the papers and the pistol.
01:08:02
And they realize this is the member of the resistance that's been killing high ranking officers.
01:08:07
They interrogate her and they find out that she she is the person they think she is.
01:08:13
So she is Hany Schaft. So Hany Schaft is tortured and executed by firing squad on April 17th, 1945.
01:08:22
She was only 24 years old. Holy shit. 18 days later, the Netherlands is liberated from the Nazis.
01:08:31
Yeah. So Hany has, of course, since become a national hero in the Netherlands. she was reinterred in the honorary cemetery urbagoffplatz blumendahl in the presence of
01:08:46
princess juliana and prince bernard her legacy is remembered throughout the country and actually in
01:08:53
1981 a movie called the girl with the red hair was made about her life truce would go on to speak
01:09:00
publicly about all of the work that she her sister and honey did during the war truce becomes
01:09:07
known for her public speaking and for her artwork. It was paintings and sculptures that she did to
01:09:14
kind of process what they went through fighting in the resistance. And she also writes a memoir
01:09:20
called Not Then, Not Now, Not Ever. Yeah, girl. None of the three women ever reveal the exact
01:09:30
number of Nazi officers that they assassinated, saying that they're soldiers and soldiers never
01:09:36
reveal the number of people they've killed. So it was a very difficult after the
01:09:42
war. The sisters had a really hard time. Obviously, they had very bad PTSD. You didn't know it at the time.
01:09:50
They had nightmares. They had depression. They went through a lot of stuff. And actually, Freddie,
01:09:56
she preferred to stay out of the spotlight. She got married to a man named Jan Decker,
01:10:02
and she had three children with him, which she says is what helped her cope with the trauma of her past.
01:10:09
In 1996, Trues founds the National Hany Schaaf Foundation in the Netherlands in Hany's memory,
01:10:17
and the foundation works to inform people, particularly young people, about the perils of extremism and fascism
01:10:23
to encourage them to actively fight for justice in their daily lives. In 2014, Freddie and Trues are awarded the Mobilization War Cross,
01:10:33
which is a very high Dutch military honor for their resistance work by Prime Minister Mark Ruta.
01:10:40
And in 2016, Truist passes away from natural causes at the age of 92. And then Freddie also passed away from natural causes, and it was a day before her 93rd birthday.
01:10:53
And she survived by her three children, her four grandchildren, and their half-brother.
01:10:58
And if you want more information about these three amazing women, please read Sophie Polderman's book, Seducing and Killing Nazis.
01:11:08
That's incredible. Yeah. The full title, Seducing and Killing Nazis, Hani, Truist, and Freddie, Dutch Resistance Heroines of World War II.
01:11:18
It could not be a longer title. And that is the incredibly inspiring story of three young Dutch resistance fighters.
01:11:27
Truist and Freddy over Stegen and Hany Schaft. Karen, that was amazing. Did I explain it all to you correctly?
01:11:36
You did it great. The World War II explanation was amazing. I loved it. I'm serious.
01:11:40
I really have watched actually a lot of History Channel stuff about it because it's that kind
01:11:45
of thing of how did this happen? How did this happen? I think it's the same thing with true crime where it's this crossover of like, what's
01:11:51
life been like for other people? I have to know more about it. Yes. I know it's not been what my life is, and I just want to learn whatever I can.
01:11:59
And thinking about people... who have been everybody, every side of victims of war.
01:12:05
Yeah. And seeing how the even like multitudes of pain it creates. Yeah. There aren't any winners really.
01:12:13
You know what I mean? It's like there's things get maybe rebalanced in a better way,
01:12:17
but there's so much human cost. Yeah. And I think that's kind of the like, you want that to be like,
01:12:24
yeah, I shot a bunch of people. But of course they're just like, no, it was absolutely not like that at all
01:12:28
because they didn't want to be in that position in the first place. Right, right.
01:12:32
They were doing what they felt they had to do for humanity. Yeah. And thank God they did because they saved a ton of people.
01:12:39
That's incredible. Yeah. Good idea, Georgia. Thank you. Good job, Karen. I'm so glad I didn't do that.
01:12:45
That looks very hard. I definitely am sweating a lot. But yeah. Great job. Thank you.
01:12:54
What's your fucking hooray? What's a positive thing? So, okay, this one I actually sent to you, I believe in a text, but it's our friend Brene Brown.
01:13:06
And if you go on to BreneBrown.com, there is a video on there. It's Super Soul Sessions.
01:13:14
So it's called The Anatomy of Trust. What's up, Oprah? And right, Oprah's still doing it for us all.
01:13:21
And the anatomy of trust is this incredible Brene Brown video that everyone needs to watch about if you have trust issues, if you have relationship issues, whatever it might be.
01:13:34
It's everybody. Yeah, everyone. And it's kind of very much reminds me of how mind blown I was after the vulnerability video.
01:13:42
The first one I saw of hers, it's so huge and viral. But this one is really amazing about how to have better relationships how to build trust and how to be trustworthy and how that is just as important for you to be able to trust other people as it like we always want to go like oh but this person did this to me or whatever but it like but actually if you can build your own sense of trustworthiness in yourself which is about which is basically about knowing yourself
01:14:10
and having kind of a centered um moral view it's just such an why am i trying to
01:14:17
and i want to and i haven't watched it like you send me stuff sometimes where i'm just like i
01:14:22
can't with this right like it's just like too big for me right now i always like to do heavy shit
01:14:26
yeah and sometimes like you gave me a really nice like grieving pamphlet recently and i i have it out
01:14:32
on my desk and i'm just like i i'll get there when i can get there you'll get there when you need it
01:14:37
and then i think this is one of those things too where i'm just reminding me that i need this is
01:14:41
exactly what i want to talk to my therapist about this week yeah it's big feelings you definitely
01:14:45
need like a half an hour privately so you can cry as much as you want and as hard as you want or not
01:14:50
at all. But there's just things that you just go, Oh, yeah, like, it's just, it's very, very helpful.
01:14:56
And it actually is very kind of like, it's just kind of centering and calming in that way, where
01:15:02
if you have trust issues, or if you're worried about the kind of relationships you have in the
01:15:06
way you have them, you don't have to worry about it, you just have to do work. That's all it's and
01:15:12
it's baby steps. It's just like, you just have to kind of become aware and do your best. Because
01:15:17
And that's like, that's why Brene Brown's so awesome. Cause she just goes, here's the science.
01:15:22
Here's what works. Here's what we, when we do our studies, here's what we see. And it's really, it's not like any kind of finger pointing.
01:15:30
It's more like, Ooh, what about a four step plan to feel better in this way? It's really cool.
01:15:35
So anyway, it's like, you're talking to me, but you are, I'm talking right in your face.
01:15:40
There's nobody else. But it's the same thing with like, you know, you recommend, I mean, this is dumb, but you
01:15:44
recommend books to me and I just don't pay attention to you. And then I come back and go, have you read this book?
01:15:48
I told you to read that book. It's this. I think we all take it in when we're supposed to.
01:15:53
Yeah. So it just like put that in your put you know put that in your filing cabinet See what happens But to anybody else that that kind of like is looking for this thing you can go wrong on Brene Brown anyway Yeah But that video
01:16:07
especially because my therapist has been telling me to watch it for literally three years.
01:16:11
Oh, wow. And then I finally was like, fine, fine. You're going to have like a daily,
01:16:15
the daily Brene website where you just post a daily Brene quote. For real. On her Instagram,
01:16:22
there's a lot of daily. Yeah, but she's doing it. Just follow Brene Brown on Instagram.
01:16:25
um that's great i mean i'll watch it finally yeah when you feel like mine was gonna be that i finally
01:16:32
cooked a meal for literally the first time in like a year oh shit you know i love cooking but
01:16:36
i just don't have time to do it and i it just takes so long it's overwhelming it was gonna be
01:16:40
that i cut my finger real bad what did you make i just made a little chicken and vegetables meal
01:16:46
okay i then tapped the knife on accident and sliced i guess i have nice knives you do that
01:16:52
was going to be my fucking hooray. But then just coming here tonight, I saw a corgi puppy in the
01:16:57
parking lot named Schmutz. And then I think I need a puppy now. So that's my fucking hooray is Schmutz.
01:17:05
This teeny corgi puppy that just changed my life. I can't imagine anything would be cuter than a corgi puppy.
01:17:11
It's I just stood there and the sweet woman was like, do you want to do you want to say hi to me?
01:17:18
Like a little kid. I was like, I do. I really need to say hi to Schmutz. Yes, I do need to talk to Schmutz real bad.
01:17:24
She was very sweet. And then she tried to bite my shoelaces. The puppy, not the woman.
01:17:30
Right. It was very sweet. Ma'am, please. I'm trying to talk to your dog. It was kind of was life changing.
01:17:37
Yeah, you really were lit up when you came in. Oh, my God. I was screaming. You're just pointing toward the door like, do you know what?
01:17:42
There was a puppy outside. I made everyone go out there. I mean, it was okay. guys thanks for listening we appreciate you guys so much this is fucking incredible and we're so
01:17:54
lucky we still love our job that right it so nice yeah thanks for listening yeah thanks for making it happen for us and stay sexy And don get murdered Goodbye Elvis do you want a cookie Bro from the show last night to this drive why is it never chill
01:18:10
Because this is our life. Backstage, on the road, it's loud, messy, real. And that's the best part.
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Look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more.
01:19:17
Vital Farms. Good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. Running a business shouldn't feel like surviving a software group project.
01:19:25
One app for accounting, another for inventory, another for sales. And somehow, none of them talk to each other.
01:19:32
That's where Odoo comes in. An all-in-one business management software that brings every part of your business together.
01:19:39
From sales and accounting to inventory and marketing. All in one powerful platform.
01:19:44
No messy integrations. No bouncing between tabs. And best of all, no spreadsheets.
01:19:50
Stop managing software and start managing your business with one unified system.
01:19:55
Try for free today at odoo.com slash iHeartRadio. That's O-D-O-O-O dot com slash iHeartRadio.