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00:01:48
Toronto! Oh, my! Everybody's lungs are totally healthy tonight. Yay. Wow, hi, guys.
00:02:04
This is our second and best night in Tehran. Good move, good move. Thank you, thank you.
00:02:12
They'll never notice that. I just want to start off by saying I woke up from my nap an hour ago.
00:02:20
Yeah, Georgia. I fucked up. Georgia is the timely one. Georgia is the one that's the one always standing, like,
00:02:30
in front of the restaurant doors waiting for me. As I roll up 17 minutes late, that's the standard that we are adjusting to and trying to fix.
00:02:39
So as I was running out of my hotel room tonight at 6.08 or whatever, like, oh, my God, everyone's waiting for me.
00:02:49
And then I get a text from Vince. Georgia just woke up. You can go ahead and we'll send someone for her.
00:02:59
It's never, in three years, it's never happened. It's never happened. Shockingly, I'm surprised.
00:03:04
So, you know, I do the thing. I get all my story ready and da-da-da-da. I'm going to take a nap.
00:03:07
I'm also a little sick, so I'm a little high on cold meds. Yeah. It's going to be great.
00:03:11
I'm going to finally have so much time for a nap. Vince says, okay, meet, you know, Vince leaves to go to the venue.
00:03:16
And then he says, meet us downstairs at six o'clock. I say, great. And I set my alarm for six o'clock.
00:03:23
Oh, no. I wake up to the fucking loud-ass hotel phone. And I look at the clock and go, that doesn't make sense.
00:03:31
And then it was Vince being like, where are you? What's going on? I have to say, I don't like the ring of a hotel phone.
00:03:40
It's not good. When you pick that up, it's never like, hey, you're the best. it's always an emergency
00:03:49
or you left something somewhere that you shouldn't have put it there. The thing you've been doing
00:03:55
is bugging someone that's next to you. Yeah, or they're like, yeah, this credit card doesn't work at all.
00:04:01
Like, why would they be, why would anyone call on a landline unless there's been a death in the family
00:04:07
or you have to get out of the room because you have no money. Those are the only options.
00:04:15
So it must have been a horrifying way to wake up. It was, but I fucking made it. Hence the pigtails, by the way. I would have,
00:04:22
I would have, I was going to do a bouffant up to with it. Yeah. Oh, you should see her back home.
00:04:33
It's humongous. But instead I look like a teenager from here and a vintage woman from here. Yeah.
00:04:41
It's a great look. It's confusing. It's, there's an attraction repulsion. People are like,
00:04:46
Whatever it is, I can't stop staring at her. You played your cards correctly, my friend.
00:04:52
I'm going to start waking up 20 minutes before, after I have to leave again. Join me.
00:04:56
Join me in late club. You know what's so weird is someone posted a photo. They came to the show last night.
00:05:02
Then they went vintage shopping today. Or maybe something. And they found this fucking dress.
00:05:06
No. Yes. I should have brought the photo. They found a... Who is it? It's a sweaty back?
00:05:13
It's handmade. There's no way. There's no tag in there. No way. Yeah, I swear to God.
00:05:17
It even has the same hole that I have. Yay! Yes. Is tonight the night you bust out?
00:05:24
No. I love it. It's pretty. All right. I'm hating it. Well, let's see. Can I just explain my outfit?
00:05:33
No, that's okay. I really don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it. I don't like it.
00:05:41
I've only been performing for 25 years to get exactly that response from me. I don't like it.
00:05:48
I wasn paying attention to the time so I spent so much time on my eyeliner and then realized that my hair like Vince is like four minutes and my hair was up in two weird clips to get it out of my face
00:06:06
I'm like, oh no, it was like, it was me three Zimas in. And then I just had to take down. I'm like, I think I'll just put a hand lotion in it. Like, that's what I do when I'm running late.
00:06:22
And then also, so I was just like, get it down, try to smooth it out. And then as I'm going, I'm like, oh, I have blushed like a doll right now.
00:06:30
All right. Well, we got to go anyway. You got to scream it to the balcony, the blush.
00:06:34
Oh, yeah. This is for you guys. Can you see it? It's all for you. It's all for you.
00:06:41
They're like, she looks healthy. And everyone down there is like, she has rosacea.
00:06:46
It's not healthy. We should have a like first five rows, no photos. Yeah, that'd be great.
00:06:51
I love when people post photos like, we met people last night. I'm like, you didn't have to post that photo of me.
00:06:58
How about you, if you really loved me, you photoshopped me out of every fucking photo.
00:07:02
I'm almost 50 for fuck's sake. Give me a break. I'm 50. Oh, hey, speaking of, this is my favorite murder of the podcast.
00:07:15
Oh, yeah. Hi, welcome. This is Karen Kilgariff. This is Georgia Hart Stark. We're so, so proud to be in a different country.
00:07:27
Yep. Oh, also, just really quick to explain these shoes. I just remembered these, too.
00:07:36
That's how quickly I get used to things. Normally, I wear a pair of clogs that my sister hates because she hates them.
00:07:43
That's how I do fashion. it's like the first live show we did I was wearing these clogs and my sister
00:07:53
was there and saw them and was like you're not fucking wearing those on stage and I'm like now I'm wearing them forever
00:07:59
and I really have worn them since we started touring and when we were in Detroit
00:08:05
I left them at the theater and the man was going to drive back and get them and I'm like
00:08:11
those things are gross, first of all I don't want you to touch them that much unsupervised
00:08:16
and also that's terrible it's like freezing cold i was like you know what i must have subconsciously
00:08:24
not wanted those clogs no more please don't go get them for me i mean before we went on stage you
00:08:28
said i need to get rid of these i did so and you did and then i did get rid of them did it
00:08:33
and then i put on my um my uggs that also secretly have plantar fasciitis inserts inside of them
00:08:42
Because I'm 70. But at least this dress has pockets. Yeah. Love it. Good luck, players.
00:08:58
Love the move. Loving it. What else? You know what my dad did? What? My dad's watching The Cats right now.
00:09:08
Thank you. Thank you. Marty already asked Vince if he has a pot grinder somewhere in the house.
00:09:16
But, you know, Dad, he fucking somehow figured out a way to make the Wi-Fi stop working.
00:09:22
It's like in a corner. There's no way unless he touched it. And there's no reason.
00:09:27
Anyways. Is this a pot grinder? He uses Mimi. We get back. She's like, I can't watch my cats on the cat camera anymore.
00:09:40
And I'm just, I know, it's really upsetting. I'm just going with it. Yeah, just go with it.
00:09:45
Hoping my dad's not super high. Oh, he is. Oh, he totally is. He's probably gone onto the roof and unplugged the Wi-Fi.
00:09:54
Is this what you were asking about? Why do we give him that voice? He doesn't talk like that at all.
00:10:01
I'm doing the Elizabeth Holmes voice from Theranos. Oh, yeah. We're going to change the world.
00:10:08
One drop of blood. One drop of blood. If you haven't listened to the dropout, you have to listen to the podcast, The Dropout.
00:10:14
It's amazing. If you're listening to it right now, take your headphones out. Yeah, stop it.
00:10:19
This is time for our podcast. It's a different podcast altogether. Not That Bitch's podcast.
00:10:25
What if she made that podcast? Okay, whatever. She's just here. Oh, quick corrections corner.
00:10:32
I ripped everybody off for 10 years. I stole $9 billion. Quick corrections corner.
00:10:38
From a bunch of old men who should have fucking known better. Actually, it would be genius if she had a podcast.
00:10:44
Should we sit down? Do you want to? I guess. Okay. Let's do it. Thanks. Oh, hold on.
00:10:54
Because remember the bit we always do where we're like, Stephen? Oh, yeah. We always do that.
00:11:01
Yeah. Yes. Yes! Yes! Yes! In a fucking... Yep. That's amazing. Hi, Toronto. I got this Degrassi sweater for free,
00:11:26
and I was like, if I don't wear it, what would I be doing? Amazing. Such a good move.
00:11:34
Yeah, Manny's my favorite character. Hi, Toronto. All right. All right, Stephen, everybody.
00:11:46
I mean, what more do you say when you come out in a fucking Degrassi? Yeah, you don't upstage yourself with your own sweatshirt.
00:11:52
I mean... Or mustache. I just love that in every other live show that we do we always reference Stephen and then people yell Steven and then we like he not here tonight And everyone goes oh and it like this wonderful call and response that we all practiced
00:12:08
You're not really disappointed. For you, Toronto, we brought him live. We didn't really bring him live.
00:12:16
Okay, now we can sit down. Okay, now we're sitting down. Okay. Okay, these are the Anderson Cooper, Andy Cohen chairs that they get delivered to every city they do a show in and leave behind for us to put our butts in.
00:12:26
That's right. It's great. We appreciate it. It sounds like gossip, but it's true.
00:12:31
Do you want to talk about this? Do you want to tell everyone? Do you want to tell them what this podcast is?
00:12:36
Of course I do. This is the part where we explain to everybody that this is a true crime comedy podcast.
00:12:43
And there's some people that get very upset by that combination. They think it's offensive.
00:12:49
They think that we're making jokes about people who have been murdered. They don't listen and they don't know us.
00:12:53
And you brought them. That's right. For some reason, you insisted that they come to a show that they don't understand
00:13:01
and that they're not interested in. Thank you so much for that. Great. That's why I don't wear my glasses on stage.
00:13:08
So I don't every 50th person see a face that's like, I don't care about pockets in your dress.
00:13:14
It's like. I should start wearing glasses so I don't have to see that. I can really see the fixes of the first 20 rows.
00:13:21
It's really disarming. But I'm just basically saying this to say that there are people who think that
00:13:27
and they don't understand that really what this is is it's two women who have been obsessed with true crime
00:13:32
for a really long time, like all our friends. And this is a thing we already talk about,
00:13:39
but in personality-wise, the comedy part is just who we are as people. It's how we converse.
00:13:44
It's how a lot of people in this world deal with the horrifying shit. in the world by laughing, by using humor, by letting off the steam.
00:13:52
So if you just happen to be one of those kind of people that thinks it's offensive,
00:13:55
you can get the fuck out right now. Yes. I'm making that speech longer and longer,
00:14:05
and pretty soon I'm going to ask for like a ladder and a spotlight, and it's going to turn into my one-woman show.
00:14:11
We get it. We've heard you say this 80 fucking times. And while we're at it, we know the hometown rules.
00:14:17
No, you don't. Clearly, clearly you don't. Sorry, we yelled at you. Actually, the gal last night was wonderful, so we're not mad at you.
00:14:27
Of course, because we're in Canada. Because you guys listen. Yes. You're smart and you tell good stories.
00:14:35
That girl was like, I wanted to back up and just be like, it's your podcast now.
00:14:39
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00:15:01
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00:15:25
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Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. I go first. Okay, great. Go first. Okay. Here we go.
00:17:45
I'd actually like to start off with a quick book report. This is my report on the province of Ontario Canada in the past there have been times where I showed that I didn know that much about the province of Ontario Canada
00:18:07
Or maybe nothing at all. But I've worked to change that, and I want to show that to you right now.
00:18:17
The Canadian province of Ontario is one of Canada's 13 provinces and territories.
00:18:25
It is the second largest province in land area and the largest in total population.
00:18:32
Ontario is home to the nation's capital city, Ottawa, and the nation's most populous city, Toronto.
00:18:46
Which is also Ontario's provincial capital. The name Ontario is derived from the Iroquois word meaning beautiful water.
00:18:56
Ontario was settled by the Algonquian tribes in the north and west. Yeah. And the Iroquois and Wyandoe Huron in the south and east.
00:19:11
The official language of Ontario is English. Ontario, the Canadian province, is not to be confused with the California city of Ontario,
00:19:21
which was named after the Canadian province, Ontario, which is definitely where I am right now.
00:19:30
I know that for a fact. That I do know. The official flower of Ontario is white trillium.
00:19:36
The official bird is the common loon. And the official website is www.ontario.ca.
00:19:45
Yay! Please, please accept my apology, Canadian province of Ontario. I am so sorry.
00:20:00
Oh. With a little dig at the end. Just to show him. Just to get him. Just a show up.
00:20:09
If we do this for every city a week, do shows on, we're going to get so much better in 22 years.
00:20:16
Oh, yeah. Right? Yeah, it'll also be half the shows are apologizing to the place we're in.
00:20:22
Or just to words. The word attic has two Ts and ends in a C. And I'm still mad about it.
00:20:31
It doesn't make sense. It's truly stupid. I am gonna go outside of the province of Ontario Canada tonight so I can tell you all about the Ant Hill Kids cult
00:20:47
Really? Okay, you guys aren't into cults as much as we Well, you must be because this is fucked up
00:20:57
So let's see I got a lot of this information from of course our best friend Wikipedia
00:21:04
And then our secret lover Murderpedia Which is, we talk a lot about donating to Wikipedia
00:21:12
Murderpedia is the shit I'm sure you all know this already But you could also donate to that if you feel like it or have extra money
00:21:19
Who among us? There's a Netflix movie called Savage Messiah about this and there's a YouTube crime documentary called The Rockterio.
00:21:31
It's called The Rockterio. That must be wrong. Anyhow. But the reason I'm doing it is because I actually prepped it to do another time,
00:21:46
maybe when we were in Montréal one time. Thank you. Thank you. I made it all the way to French too in high school.
00:21:55
Really rocked that. accent. But it's so awful that I was like, I can't do it. It's awful. And then last night,
00:22:03
a girl named Jen with two N's gave me a book. Oh, that's why you were like, I need a book.
00:22:09
Yes. I like snatched it out. I was just like, I thought you would. And I was like, give it to me
00:22:12
right now. It's a book called The Cult Files by Chris Michael, M-I-K-U-L. And this book is written
00:22:21
for me. So it's like, say, 12 chapters, but the print is really big. Each cult has like five pages
00:22:30
or six pages dedicated to it. So you can like get in and out real fast. Nobody gets hurt.
00:22:37
Everyone gets hurt. Everyone gets hurt, actually. In this book, you can't make it in unless a bunch
00:22:44
of people get terribly fucking hurt. Kind of the nature of cults. But it actually, it's just like,
00:22:49
the second I stopped reading about this one, I turned the page and then it's like
00:22:53
the, you know, it was like people in the jungle or whatever and then it was fucking Jonestown.
00:22:59
We were just on to the next one. It was awesome. So get that book if you also have reading ADD like I do.
00:23:06
And thank you, Jen, for giving me a book. Alright. So the Ant Hill Kids cult was started by a man
00:23:15
named Rock Terrio. Let's just take a look. Do we? Oh, no. Oh, no. Yes. He's got the piercing blue eyes of a psychopath.
00:23:28
Yeah. He's got a mustache comb over. I mean, truly, it's like blinds over his lips.
00:23:39
What if most of that beard is actually mustache? Because he has beard. I'm saying entertain it.
00:23:45
He has beard baldness. and he's like, I gotta make up for my lack of beard. And when he wants to eat,
00:23:51
he has to use like butterfly clips to clip them back. The two clips I had in my hair.
00:23:55
Almost came out in, that's right. He just clips them back. All right. I bet that beard smells.
00:24:01
That's all I can ever think of when I see a dude with a big beard. Yeah. I bet it smells.
00:24:05
Also, it's like, there's, it's almost like a mullet situation, but it's party in the front and party in the back.
00:24:11
Yeah. It's just party, party, party, party. It's a huge party. No party on top. It happened.
00:24:18
By the way, yeah. Okay. So this is our friend, Rockterio. It is not spelled like that at all.
00:24:25
It's fucking. Oh, I see. Okay. Oh, I get it. Yeah. Okay. Right? R-O-C-H. I had to write it phonetically for myself.
00:24:36
I literally, on every page, it says, Rock like a rock. Terry dash O like SpaghettiOs.
00:24:42
Wow. Because every time I'm like, Therolo? I thought you were trying to say something like,
00:24:51
Rocktober, all Rocktober long, like on a radio station. Rock, you know. You're just confused?
00:24:57
Totally confused. Just letting me. And I didn't look slightly to the right of his face.
00:25:01
Right. Because why would I? Because that mustache is hypnotic. Look at it. It's also just a shade lighter than the beard.
00:25:10
Uh-huh. It's because it's in the sun. It's like he just suns it. He suns himself.
00:25:15
He puts the reflective thing underneath it. Right. And then puts copper tone five on top.
00:25:21
The lemon juice in there so it'll sun in. Yep. And then he does just a light highlights.
00:25:29
Little bleach strips. Chunky. Some chunky. Before the pizza. Okay. He did an ombre when that was in.
00:25:35
He takes care of his shit. That's what we're saying. Try it, guys. Guys. Rocktario.
00:25:43
Rocktober is the best month of the year. We're going to be playing the rock dance.
00:25:50
Orgasms all night long. Okay. Stop it, Karen. Quit it, Georgia. He quit it. He was born.
00:25:59
on May 16th, 1947, in Saguenay, Quebec? Saguenay. Saginaw. No, it's not fucking Saginaw.
00:26:11
It's fucking some American up here translating incorrectly, leading us down the primrose path.
00:26:20
Of course she's fucking Canada-splaining to you. Yes. How dare she? How dare you French-splain anything to me?
00:26:26
We're going to call it the Segway Quebec. Because of what you've done. From age six,
00:26:36
he is raised in a town called Thetford Mines, which, you'll like this, was built over the world's largest deposit of asbestos.
00:26:45
Your favorite. I love asbestos. It is the funniest thing. I'm not... Okay. Truly.
00:26:55
I just wonder first of all I feel like this whole story could go in a totally different direction
00:27:01
if a town is built over the largest natural deposit of asbestos everyone goes asbestos crazy
00:27:08
you've got a horror movie right there totally like why do I have to do all the fucking work
00:27:13
what anyhow but that's not it does this is definitely turning into a horror movie
00:27:19
but it's not asbestos related okay we're gonna write that one Stephen write that down
00:27:23
Stephen please make Several notes on the back of your Degrassi sweatshirt. You know what's so funny?
00:27:30
What's weird to me is because I always feel so old when the youngsters talk about the things that they love.
00:27:36
And I'm always like, I've never heard of that and I don't care. Is usually my, I don't say it out loud.
00:27:42
That's my internal. You actually do. You don't know that you say it out loud every time.
00:27:47
Yeah. You kind of mutter it to yourself. Can you give a hand signal when I'm doing that?
00:27:52
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just let me know. Sorry, I'll let you know. who cares but we when I was in high school
00:28:01
that was the thing me and my friend Lisa Lanyon loved to do was walk home to her house
00:28:05
because she lived near the high school and then we would sorry I just had a side memory
00:28:13
to this memory where she and I oh no after high school went and had dinner with her dad
00:28:19
and his new wife after her mom died so it was a very sad It was very sad, and then immediately her dad got remarried.
00:28:28
And no one knew what to do. Or no, sorry, they started dating. So this woman was his girlfriend.
00:28:33
He did get remarried very soon. But he started dating very quickly after her mom died.
00:28:38
And we were all just kind of like, what? This is weird. So she called me and was like, you have to come over because my dad's girlfriend is coming over for dinner, and I don't know what to do.
00:28:47
So I was like, I'll be there. Don't worry about it. Well, we are offered wine at the top of the evening.
00:28:53
and I'm like, it is on. We get so fucking drunk at this dinner. I mean, like, if there was video,
00:29:02
I wouldn't be able to watch it because it was insane. But give our kids wine. We were coping.
00:29:07
Well, we were like 18, 19 maybe. You know, we were all just trying to get through a bad time.
00:29:14
It wasn't even my bad time, but I was like, we're going to get through this. Everybody give me more wine.
00:29:21
By the time dinner's over, her dad has made everybody the dessert Bananas Foster.
00:29:29
And we go in to help him serve it to his new girlfriend and her son. I just remembered he was there.
00:29:39
And Bananas Foster, whatever this dessert he was making, was like this fancy glass with like ice cream and bananas.
00:29:46
And then he poured some liquor on it. And as he's pouring the liquor, I yell, less bananas more foster And then we said that to each other for 15 years um that confusing anecdote that must make no sense
00:30:06
to you right now is because lisa and i would go home every day after school and watch degrasse
00:30:11
junior high like it would when spike got pregnant oh my fucking god i love her we had all these
00:30:20
choices and it was like we picked something we were just like we don't even really care about it
00:30:26
wasn't like we loved it it was like we were like we had to do it and then after a while we became
00:30:32
addicted where it was like our soap opera and we would talk about it all the time but in the
00:30:36
beginning we'd just be like what the fuck is this who are these people and then after a while it's
00:30:42
all we did. Yeah, it's a good show. Two terrible stories, my guarantee to you. Terrible stories
00:30:50
all night long. Okay, thank you. I hate that. Okay, so Rock's parents are named Hyacinth,
00:31:00
that's Hyacinth, that's the dad, and Pierrette, Pierrette, that's the mom. Okay. They're devout
00:31:07
Catholics, and so of course he has seven brothers and sisters, because that's how Catholics
00:31:12
Let's do it. He's a very intelligent child, drops out of school in the seventh grade,
00:31:18
which is kind of common. None of his brothers or sisters had educations past junior high.
00:31:23
What more is there to know? I mean, once you get out of junior fucking high, what more do you need to know?
00:31:27
You're done. You've got the presidents memorized. Or leaders. You're leaders. You know the landmass of Ontario.
00:31:41
You're done. he begins to teach himself. And despite the rest of his family, who only speaks French,
00:31:52
he learns English. He seems like a real asshole. Yeah, what a show off. But he also begins to read the Old Testament.
00:32:01
And he gets super into it because he loves all the apocalyptic end-of-the-world shit that's in the Old Testament.
00:32:06
Pretty fucking cool. Right? Like most tweens. He loves the idea of the end of the world.
00:32:13
Okay, so his father is an ultra-conservative Catholic who belongs to a group called the White Berets.
00:32:21
Anyone here tonight from the White Berets? We love your hats. He made Rock and his brothers and sisters march around town with him, military style, through their neighborhood, knocking on doors, asking for donations for the group, and passing out pamphlets for them.
00:32:39
And he was so humiliated by that, and he hated being bossed around like that so much that he hated Catholicism.
00:32:46
The whole thing infuriated him. And also, of course, other kids made fun of him for having to wear a white beret, which is so embarrassing.
00:32:57
Not the theater kids. They supported him entirely. But the jocks were mean. So this was basically a breaking point for him.
00:33:11
So he would later on tell stories of horrible abuse at the hands of his father, saying his father was an alcoholic and that he was so vicious and abusive to him
00:33:21
that he would have to run into the nearby forest. And while he was there, he met and frolicked with bears.
00:33:30
Canadian bears are nice. Canadian bears are so polite. Yeah, that's right. They're constantly apologizing.
00:33:37
They have the best Kit Kats. He also told people later on that he was paralyzed from age six to eight.
00:33:48
That when he was seven, he had a vision where he was playing St. Joseph in a theatrical production.
00:33:52
And then later he did play St. Joseph in a theatrical production. That's just like a wish and a hope.
00:33:57
And then you follow through with it. Yeah, that's called the secret, actually. It's not your cult, dude.
00:34:04
That's an Australian ladies' cult. But he claimed that that meant that he was psychic and that he understood medicine.
00:34:13
Oh, no, wait, sorry. That's another claim. That's not connected. He thought, oh, that, okay, didn't make any sense.
00:34:19
I was like, let's make the sense of this. St. Joseph loves doctors? Maybe. He thinks he understands medicine.
00:34:27
He believes he has the ability and tells people he has the ability to mend arms and legs.
00:34:32
oh broken arms and legs they have to be broken they can't just be gross okay all of this of course are lies lies lies um he has a very standard childhood and friends
00:34:47
family neighbors say they never saw hyacinth terio um raises voice abuses kids that that
00:34:57
just simply wasn't the case. But the father did admit later to having to discipline Rock
00:35:02
because he was, quote, a manipulative and incorrigible liar who refused to accept responsibility
00:35:08
for his actions. So like whenever he was caught drinking or smoking or doing anything, he would
00:35:13
just argue and then blame one of his siblings. Nothing was ever his fault. And so there's all
00:35:18
these stories of manipulative and callous behavior. And many psychologists believe that he, from a
00:35:24
young age, suffered from a narcissistic personality disorder. Fun. Right? All that in a white beret, pictured in your mind.
00:35:33
Oh, what a little shit. I'm thinking of Rushmore now, the movie Rushmore. Yeah. If the kid from Rushmore had just a terrible beard.
00:35:41
Oh, we can turn that off. Can we? No wonder you're so upset. Okay. And also they say that the myth lies are a way to like he was trying to prove his superiority over others over regular people which is a common tactic among cult leaders
00:36:05
But the thing is, he was really charismatic and charming. Red flag, always. Always.
00:36:12
If you like someone, you're wrong. He would go to dance halls around town, around asbestos town,
00:36:21
and drink and pick up women. That was like his jam. He was very charming and persuasive,
00:36:27
and he believed that his blue eyes, intelligence, and large penis meant that everyone wanted to listen to him talk all the time.
00:36:37
I mean, you don't even have to talk anymore. Yeah, that's the thing. How about you zip it?
00:36:43
He basically was an attention whore, and he didn't care. He was just out there to hold forth
00:36:51
and be like, what's up, and then get laid. So when he's 20, he basically gets himself the prettiest girl at the dance hall.
00:36:59
It's a 17-year-old named Francine Grenier. And in 1967, he marries her. They have two children.
00:37:07
And he's a really talented woodworker, so he makes them a house out of pine. So he's not so bad.
00:37:15
Pine trees hate him, though. Not to pine trees. That forest, those bears that now have no trees to rub their back against?
00:37:22
We were your friends. We gave you Kit Kats. What the fuck, bro? We cavorted with you.
00:37:31
Page three. He gets a job. Even though he's a talented woodworker, he gets a job as a chimney inspector.
00:37:39
Because that's his passion. Okay, but here's another turning point. In 1970, he has an operation because he has really bad duodenal ulcers.
00:37:52
Don't ask me. Okay. And he has to have a large part of his stomach and some intestines removed.
00:38:00
Oh, fuck that. Right? I don't know. I wouldn't mind it. There's a little weight.
00:38:07
Yeah. Suddenly salads are really satisfying. Never. so this is when a family and friends say his personality changed so he's in because he's in
00:38:19
constant pain okay he also can't digest food very well so he begins like binge drinking i can't blame
00:38:26
him so he obsesses on his health he starts reading medical textbooks that might be connected to his
00:38:33
i can fix arms and legs from childhood he was basically being a google doctor but back then
00:38:38
Yes. Like, what was wrong with me? So he is a visionary in a lot of ways. But he reads medical textbooks.
00:38:45
Then he starts telling everybody he has cancer. And that's like a weird way he gets attention from people too,
00:38:51
which is talk about a fucking dark blood red flag. Like people lying about shit like that.
00:38:56
We're just like, no, go back to the forest. So, oh, and he also, so he stops paying attention to his wife and kids.
00:39:05
His narcissistic tendencies are off the charts. He loses his job as a chimney inspector.
00:39:10
And no. That was the final blow. They're like, get off that roof. You're done. Get your head out of that chimney.
00:39:21
Stop looking at it. No. Inspecting it. Look away. Then he starts telling people that his insides are made of plastic.
00:39:30
That's a bit of a jump. They're like, we were totally on board with your cancer.
00:39:34
Yeah, that was fine. Wait a minute. How does plastic get cancer? It only gives it.
00:39:42
Okay, so. Then, phase two, he becomes obsessed with sex. More so. So, he had once been very controlling with his wife
00:39:53
and saying you have to wear long skirts and dress very low-key, cover yourself up.
00:40:00
Now he insists that she wear short skirts and tight clothes and show herself off.
00:40:04
and she's like, bitch, get a job. How about you don't worry about my skirt? She didn't say that.
00:40:11
She actually, the family went on welfare and she actually got a job as a waitress
00:40:16
and was the only form of income for their family. Because, of course, he's drinking all the time
00:40:23
and then he starts making wooden beer mugs. Okay. Imagine it. I'm thinking it. Bring it to your lips.
00:40:34
Nope. Pull it away fast. Your splinter mouth. That's what they call you now. No.
00:40:41
Splinter mouth. I have an idea. I'm going to do the thing no one's ever done for a really good reason.
00:40:47
Go ahead and make wooden cups. Wooden lip. Lip cups? Lip cups. Lip specific cups.
00:40:58
They are a little bit popular in Quebec City. Not enough to make a living, but enough, right?
00:41:06
You guys, you love wooden cups and shit. You just love splinters. So he says he has to go out and sell these cups all the time,
00:41:16
but of course he's cheating on his wife. He's down at the dance hall. He's doing that shit that he loves to do so much.
00:41:22
Hold forth, have a big dick, whatnot. So in 1975, somehow amidst all of this, He gets a seat on the city council.
00:41:33
What? Because, of course, when you're a super narcissist psycho, you want to get into politics.
00:41:41
We all know that. And, like, I think every politician, there's charming fucking people.
00:41:46
Yes. Narcissists. Narcissists, if not. Well, at least in our country. We're not going to get into this right now, but fuck Trump.
00:41:55
Okay I mean Truly I mean seriously truly I should have said that at the beginning too
00:42:06
He runs for city, gets a seat on the city council. At first, they think he's really smart. He's
00:42:11
memorized the municipal code book, which I'm sure no one else did. So he's like,
00:42:16
ask me about page 63. God, he sounds so annoying. So boring. So he's informed, genuinely concerned about the town's issues.
00:42:25
But over time, of course, they see he's out of his mind. Because he goes on these long rants
00:42:31
and temper tantrums that make the city council meetings go on for hours. And they're all insanely relieved when he
00:42:39
stops showing up for the meetings in 1976. They're just like, is the beard here? Fuck.
00:42:46
So Francine, his wife, is of course just so sick of his shit. And then the final straw
00:42:52
is when Rock asks his in-laws if they wouldn't mind if he set up a nudist colony on the land that they have.
00:43:01
Wow. Francine's like, and we're done. Goodbye. So she leaves him. But Rock, yeah,
00:43:09
but he still manages to stay popular around town. And in 1976, he meets a girl at a dance hall
00:43:15
named Giselle Tremblay. He charms her with his sad story saying, A, he's dying of cancer,
00:43:21
and B, his wife is cheating on him. So just hot, hot, hot. Like, oh my God. Are you a pickup artist with these lines?
00:43:30
Cancer, you say? Hold on. She loves it. She quits her job and they start traveling around
00:43:39
selling wooden mugs. How quickly was she like, oh shit. She's in that van like, what's that smell?
00:43:47
Oh, it's the beard. The photo? No, I just figure he must, that guy had a van. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:43:54
There's no way he didn't. 70s, for sure. He actually, if your beard grew this long in 1976, they gave you a van.
00:44:04
His drinking gets worse because of his plastic stomach pain. And then he becomes interested, he starts reading up on the occult,
00:44:13
and he joins a Catholic-affiliated society called the Aramis Club. but then he becomes
00:44:20
head of their initiation committee but when he suggests they wear capes with a picture of Satan on them
00:44:26
everybody freaks out. Do they freak out or they say there's no picture of Satan?
00:44:32
There's no way we can put that on them. We don't know what he looks like. Then he pulls out a can of deviled ham
00:44:37
and goes ah ah ah. There he is right there. Oh my God. He points out a child at Halloween.
00:44:43
Oh wait, is it true that up here, oh you might not know, because I heard this happens in Winnipeg.
00:44:53
That in Winnipeg, okay represent, in Winnipeg at Halloween, little kids, instead of saying trick or treat, they go, Halloween apples.
00:45:02
No. No. Do you not want them to, or are you saying that? No, they would never in their lives.
00:45:14
We're getting a... I don't really care. 18 rows back, I can... Yeah, why in God's name would I ask this question?
00:45:22
Who thinks yes and who thinks no? Okay. Halloween apples. That was just someone pulling my leg, my Canadian leg.
00:45:34
All right. They really got you. They really got you. They got me good. In Winnipeg.
00:45:38
I've been humiliated in Toronto about Winnipeg. Okay, so this is another great turn.
00:45:46
In 1977, the Seventh-day Adventists come to town, and they're recruiting very heavily,
00:45:53
and he decides he's going to convert from Catholicism to Seventh-day Adventism. So what he likes is they have very strong holistic beliefs
00:46:06
that basically what you put into your body, It's all about health and wellness. So he becomes a vegetarian.
00:46:13
He stops drinking. He stops eating processed food. He stops smoking. And he also, of course, is interested in their doomsday beliefs
00:46:22
because it essentially has some similar thinking to a doomsday cult. That's how it was initially established.
00:46:32
All I know now is that they get Saturdays off, which I think is unfair because when I worked at The Gap,
00:46:39
there was a guy who was like, oh, sorry, I can't work this weekend. I'm Seventh-day Adventist.
00:46:42
And I was like, fucking me too then. So he loves the doomsday element, his childhood passion.
00:46:52
He gets baptized, stops smoking and drinking, and he becomes a Seventh-day Adventist top recruiter.
00:46:57
So this is a thing they did in the 70s. The Seventh-day Adventist would open five-day stop-smoking clinics,
00:47:04
and they would get people in who just wanted to stop smoking, but then they'd be like,
00:47:08
have you heard the good word about the end of the world? People would be like, what's that?
00:47:13
And then you're like, well, I'm just going to fucking smoke then. Yeah, exactly.
00:47:16
Then why would I quit smoking? Yeah. They're like, also, do you have any heroin?
00:47:20
Yeah. Because what do we do? Thank God we have Albutrin now to quit smoking. So he, in running these clinics,
00:47:28
he's really good at it, and then he realizes it's really easy for him to convert people to his way of thinking,
00:47:34
and he's like, I'm not going to help people stop smoking. I want my own church. And that's where he gets the idea
00:47:39
to get his own followers. So he invites a small group of fellow Adventists to come to his girlfriend,
00:47:45
Giselle's apartment, and he preaches to them for hours on end. Oh, great. He's just telling them
00:47:51
the municipal code. Oh, wait, wrong one, wrong, wrong. He's checking all his big books that he
00:48:00
loves to read. This is from Psalms. You may not cross the sidewalk on Sunday. Is that a municipal
00:48:10
code? Saturday is a burn day, and you're all going to burn in hell. It's a municipal apocalypse
00:48:19
right there. Okay, for some reason, no one leaves the apartment. Could you imagine getting invited
00:48:25
over for like a Seventh-day Adventist hang, and then suddenly that guy has the floor for five hours.
00:48:31
He'd just be like... It's too awkward to like get up and leave. Yeah. Stay for the whole thing.
00:48:35
Is he trapped? You're like, he won't break eye contact with you? Giselle, do you have any water
00:48:41
or any cheese? A cheese plate? Help me. Okay. But they're into it, obviously. In 1978,
00:48:49
he decides to open the Healthy Living Clinic where he sells Adventist literature and health foods at huge markups.
00:48:57
So they basically all kind of go there and work there. He convinces a woman. So this is basically the end of his stay in the Seventh-day Adventist Church
00:49:06
because while he has this clinic, he convinces a woman with leukemia that he can cure her with his holistic methods.
00:49:14
And a few weeks later, she dies. And the Seventh-day Adventist Church is like, you can get the fuck out right now. Yeah, they know. So that's actually okay with him because
00:49:27
he wants to start his own church. So he convinces a small group of followers, it's 12 women, six men,
00:49:33
two children, that the end of the world is going to come on February 17th, 1979.
00:49:40
Spoiler alert. Spoiler alert. Smoker spoiler. So they should sell their belongings, sever ties
00:49:47
with their families and move to the forest 100 kilometers northeast of Toronto. It's fucking bears again.
00:49:53
Right? He's drawn to the bears. So the group is based on, obviously, religious themes, women's obedience to men, polygamy,
00:50:05
harsh punishments, the righteousness of the leader, the sinfulness of the followers, and
00:50:10
living miracles. So everyone's kind of like, yeah, let's do this. The world's ending.
00:50:15
Let's move to the forest. and not smoke and eat vegetables. My fucking nightmare.
00:50:22
So please never make me. So they go out there and he sits in a chair, starts drinking again, just drinks all day
00:50:32
and watches them build him a huge octagonal cabin. Wow. And that's where he comes up with the name
00:50:40
the Ant Hill Kids for the group because he's watching them work and they work really fast
00:50:45
and they're doing it really well. And he's sitting back doing nothing. Meanwhile, he's secretly given up his holistic lifestyle.
00:50:52
He's no longer a vegetarian. He's just eating junk food all the time. Fuck that guy.
00:50:56
Right? Yeah. So some people leave the group. The ones who stay, he renames them with biblical names.
00:51:04
He renames himself Moses, of course. And he then declares, which is always the huge sign that you're in a cult,
00:51:14
that he shall have multiple wives. That's right. That when the polygamy kicks in,
00:51:21
you know that your Bible study group has gone awry. Keep your eye peeled. Up until then, praise fucking Jesus.
00:51:30
The second it's like, I need three wives, go to a different, there's so many other Bible studies that you can go to.
00:51:39
Okay. So, oh, and then he makes every woman in the group his concubine. And yes, so the storyline of this is like any cult, and it's totally insane.
00:51:54
His drinking, his obviously mental illness, and pretty serious mental illness, everything escalates. He has total power, and it corrupts him entirely. So nobody has any money.
00:52:07
When they were building that cabin for him, he was doling out the food. So they were all like
00:52:13
starving while he's sat there secretly snacking away. And that's kind of how it went. So like he,
00:52:19
they sold baked goods in town to make money. He took and kept all the money. And if they didn't
00:52:25
sell enough baked goods, he would beat people with a hammer. Oh my God. It's the, the abuse
00:52:33
and the violence in this story. Like it's disgusting. And there's parts like you can go
00:52:38
read it yourself, but I, I'm not going to read it out loud because there's things in it. It's kind
00:52:42
of like looking at the like crime scene photos where like, I just don't want to know. I get and
00:52:48
give him the benefit of the doubt that he is a total piece of shit. I'll tell you some stuff.
00:52:52
It's very upsetting, but you can go into the details. I left out paragraphs and paragraphs
00:52:58
and every single word I read, I was like, oh no, what? No. Like it's fucked. Like here's just an
00:53:05
example. And this is like one of the lighter things I read. A woman took two pancakes instead
00:53:10
of one so he punched her twice in the face and then later when she suggested to her husband that
00:53:17
she wanted to leave the group he found out about it and told her husband you have to cut off one of
00:53:23
her toes and the husband was like yeah I don't think I was I'm going to do that and he started
00:53:31
screaming at the guy saying you need to um what do you say don't you have any balls if you want to
00:53:35
to be a man, you have to learn how to teach your woman a lesson. And so then the man cut off his wife's toe with an ax.
00:53:42
No! I was really hoping they would leave. No, from there we go like this. From there, that's up here.
00:53:49
And then we go like that. Shit. So Google what you will but leave me out of it So he says and the thinking is this is all of this abuse and this stuff He makes people stand in the cold for hours He whips them
00:54:05
He ties people to trees. He does it to fucking kids. The child abuse is horrifying.
00:54:10
It's awful. And he says it's all meant to purify the cult members of their sins so that they'll be saved when that end of the world comes, which is pretty soon.
00:54:19
Just hold on a little while longer. he even begins administering regular purifying sessions
00:54:25
where he stripped them nude he would whip them sometimes he'd just make them lay down
00:54:30
and pee on them but they're in it they're completely brainwashed at this point and they're totally isolated
00:54:37
starving it's all the cult things he really nailed it in that way a brainwashed all of them
00:54:46
so when that date comes and goes of the end of the world, February 17th, I believe it was, 1979.
00:54:55
Nothing happens. Just in case you didn't know, nothing happened. And so he says he miscalculated.
00:55:01
He's going to go back, rework the numbers. Math has not always been my thing. Come on.
00:55:06
I only went to school until seventh grade. Help me out. I'm more into medical textbooks.
00:55:13
And the municipal code asked me anything. um so that's then more he senses that the followers faith might be wavering so then
00:55:22
his big fix he marries all the women that are concubines they actually he marries them and then
00:55:29
uh gets all of them pregnant so he ends up fathering like 20 children holy shit how many
00:55:34
people are we talking about at this point at this uh it is like around 20 adults okay roughly um or
00:55:42
I guess over that, probably between 20 and 25. Sorry, there are nearly 40 members.
00:55:50
I was one sentence away from seeming like I knew what I was talking about. I shouldn't have asked.
00:55:56
I should, you know, it's okay. It's on me. By this time, there are nearly 40 members living and working on the commune.
00:56:06
Okay. So here's the end of this first commune. Oh, no, it's bad. It's terrible. It's horrifying. He decides he wants to circumcise a two year old child.
00:56:20
And in doing so, the child dies. Oh, and then he says, I didn't do it. That guy did it and blames it on another follower. And then he says to the group, well, since he did this and he needs to be punished, who votes that I castrate him?
00:56:39
Oh, my God. And they all vote. Yes. No. And they fucking do it. He does it. He does it himself.
00:56:47
That guy gets away and fucking gets to the cops. Okay, good. So the cops raid the commune.
00:56:54
He gets arrested. And a bunch of them get arrested. I think it's like the top three people.
00:57:01
And Rock spends two years in jail. Two years for that. Because the other problem is all the abuse.
00:57:09
when they come and see everybody, obviously they're all, you know, they're very thin.
00:57:18
They don't look good, but there's not like bruises. It's not overt. The abuse is not overt.
00:57:24
And they're there voluntarily. And they've made themselves a church. So they can't, like the authorities can't touch them.
00:57:33
If all those people are there and want to be there. so he goes to jail for two years
00:57:40
still talks to the people who are still in it like he's still in contact he sets up
00:57:47
the group is down to eight wives ten children and then three other I guess two men and a woman
00:57:55
who somehow made it so that she didn't have to marry him but when he gets out of jail
00:58:03
they make another commune, a second commune at Burnt River. And that's when the abuses escalate.
00:58:11
So it gets fucking worse than the things I've already said. He goes on three-day drinking binges.
00:58:19
This woman, he's breaking people's legs with sledgehammers. He's making people shoot each other.
00:58:29
What the fuck? Like punish each other. it's complete fucking insanity that's insane
00:58:35
the local children's aid society starts looking into them because they heard about the first commune
00:58:41
and so they're keeping an eye on them but when they go to talk to the women the women will not talk to them
00:58:48
the children, there's nothing over there's nothing they can do but there's something really wrong out there
00:58:54
so in 1989 what? yeah, it goes on this long Yeah. After enduring extreme abuse, including being burned with a welding torch and having eight of her teeth pulled out.
00:59:09
One of the followers, that's nothing. I wish you could fucking see the things I've read.
00:59:16
A follower named Gabrielle Lavalie escapes from the commune and she gets fucking caught and brought back.
00:59:25
And he cuts off her arm. Oh my God. Yes. Now, he had already, there was a woman who complained of stomach issues that he said,
00:59:37
I know how to do surgery. And he attempted surgery on her and she died. So that's when Gabrielle was just like, this is crazy.
00:59:47
I have to get out of this. And then basically that happened to her. So she heals up and then is like, I'm going to do it again.
00:59:54
And she escapes again and this time she gets to a hospital and she tells the people at the hospital yes she tells the people at the hospital I was in a car accident And of course everyone like uh nuh
01:00:06
Because, yeah, so the cops go straight to the camp and they basically raid it and take everybody.
01:00:14
Yeah. But he's not there. Fuck. I just wanted you to clap a little bit so I could get you.
01:00:23
He's not there. he's gone into hiding it takes the police six weeks to find him but they finally do so after 12
01:00:32
years um of having this bizarre and extremely violent and insane hold over the ant hill kids
01:00:40
cult um rock terrio is arrested he receives 12 years for the assault of gabrielle um they they
01:00:49
can't prove, they don't know anything about the murder of Solange yet. The gang, the cult dissolves,
01:00:57
except for three of the concubines who, when they go and visit him and have conjugal visits in jail,
01:01:05
bear four more children to him. Bringing the total to over 30 children that he fathered
01:01:11
in his cult. I bet someone's related in here. At least one person has to be. Well,
01:01:18
Then we want to hear your hometown. They might not even know. They just don't know.
01:01:23
They don't even know. So basically, Gabrielle tells them about Solange's murder and how horrifying that was.
01:01:31
Oh, sorry. This is like in the bakery days when everything was okay. I have that sweater.
01:01:38
I swear to fucking God. Do you really? Yes. Wow. But then this is when they've gone out into the wilderness.
01:01:47
Leave the goats out of it. Yeah. For fuck's sake. The goat's like, can I talk to you?
01:01:51
You're fucking crazy. That's his concubines. That's when they got married. Oh. Look at them.
01:02:01
They're so... I fucking have that dress. I swear to God. I'm sorry. This is inappropriate.
01:02:06
No, no. Here's the good part. Okay. So they investigate the murder of Solange Boyard.
01:02:15
They charge him with second-degree murder. He pleads guilty and he's sentenced to life in prison in the year 2000.
01:02:21
Wow. And then, on February 26, 2011, Rock's cellmate, 63-year-old Matthew McDonald,
01:02:32
walks to the guard station, hands them a shiv, and says, that piece of shit is down on the range.
01:02:38
Here's the knife. I've sliced him up. A poet. His fucking cellmate just stabbed him to death one day.
01:02:50
Holy shit. He's like, fuck you, buddy. Yeah. He was already in jail for a murder charge,
01:02:57
so we shouldn't really be cheering for Gerard. This is when everyone's confused.
01:03:03
This is how we start a cult. We're like, yes. But basically, he was like, this is the worst person ever,
01:03:12
and I'm already in here. I'm staying in here for life. Yeah, let's double up. He's going down on the range.
01:03:19
Yeah, and that's the hideous and upsetting story of the Ant Hill kids cult. Sorry, I threw it everywhere.
01:03:31
Wow. Terrible. Another one of those many fucking things that you're like, how did I not hear about this?
01:03:38
Yeah, I think because it's so, it's just that thing of unchecked power. Like, it's just so extreme.
01:03:44
and he just could do anything he wanted and then he fucking did. And then people believe in him.
01:03:49
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and see just how stress-free vacation planning should be. Goodbye. Okay, guys, this is the no longer cold case of Renee Sweeney.
01:06:21
Bye. This is some crazy shit. This is my... Okay, here we go. Sudbury. Pretty great.
01:06:37
It's a city in Ontario, Canada. And then over here. And here. So a lot of this information...
01:06:47
At 2 o'clock today, I decided that I realized that the murder that I had been working on
01:06:51
took place 33 hours away from here. And I was like, they're going to be mad at me.
01:06:56
I'm not doing that. My whole thing was in Montreal. Well, then they would have been double mad.
01:07:02
So I went on my favorite murder Gmail page and put in Ontario. And this is the first one I found.
01:07:08
And I was like, oh, yeah, of course, because I read about it. And so I got a lot of little things from actually our email account for Murderinos.
01:07:16
Oh, nice. About Sudbury, a murderino named M said, quote, I almost put the Providence abbreviation there,
01:07:23
but then I thought if Georgia was reading this, she'd appreciate the full name when she said where it was.
01:07:28
So thank you. So it's about 400 kilometers from Toronto. Okay. 248.548 miles. How many?
01:07:38
248.548 miles. So kilometers are smaller than miles. That's what I gather from that information.
01:07:46
Yeah. The metric system, it's a mystery to me and every American. Thank you. About Sudbury, a murdery no name Emily wrote us and said it's, quote,
01:08:06
home of the big nickel. What? And then she said, it's Emily with two E's, shout out,
01:08:15
because she says, for real, for real, we're literally known for just having a huge fucking statue of a nickel.
01:08:22
What? And then, so there's this story. We have to go back to the nickel. Okay. How big is the nickel?
01:08:31
Is it just a little bit bigger than a regular nickel? Do you want it in metrics?
01:08:35
The metrics? Yes. It's really big. Huge. Huge. Is it as big as this? Like a Ferris wheel type of?
01:08:45
Can you ride the nickel? Wait, also, do you guys? Okay. Yeah, that's what I was thinking.
01:08:52
we're not going to ask the audience any more questions that's a bad idea even though they're Canadian
01:08:59
super polite so this is their fucking case and this one reminds me a lot of one of my obsessions
01:09:07
which is the Austin yogurt shop murders that I'm obsessed with yeah so in 1998 23 year old Renee Sweeney
01:09:15
is a fourth year what did we say that how did we say we said that Laurentian Laurentian.
01:09:24
I knew you'd remember that. Laurentian University student. She's studying music.
01:09:29
She plans on attending teacher's college so she can teach music and history. She has a steady boyfriend,
01:09:33
plays the trombone in the Sudbury Symphony Orchestra. Wow. She's like, she's fucking great
01:09:38
because of course she is. She's a sweet baby angel. She's beautiful, friendly, warm.
01:09:43
Her sister Kim said she had a lot of friends but she was also quiet. She was like really studious.
01:09:47
This is her. So she needed to help pay for school. So she got a good paying part-time job
01:09:56
that fit her school schedule. It was at an adult video store, which of course everyone,
01:10:01
and everyone where I read it wants to make clear that she was not in a seedy underbelly,
01:10:05
all this bullshit. But it also is like, well, even if she was, it didn't matter.
01:10:08
But it was just a good job that she got. They had to pay people a lot to work there.
01:10:15
Truly. And you can wipe down the counters anytime you want. But it was just like pretty much like, you know when you go in your video store in the 80s and 90s and then there was a back red room?
01:10:27
Yeah. It was basically just a whole store of the back red room. Not that big of a deal.
01:10:32
Okay. You know. But it was... What? I just thought of your... Wasn't that porn that you said you saw one time naked with shoes?
01:10:41
Naked with shoes on. Naked with shoes on. The whole story is in the book. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.
01:10:48
Coming out on May something. Okay, so the video store is located in a busy strip mall,
01:10:57
so it's not like creepy or anything like that. There's a fucking natural food store next door where she sometimes shops.
01:11:03
And a door that connects the two. There's a bagel store a couple shops over. It's like a normal fucking thing.
01:11:12
Okay. Here we go. It's a cold morning on Tuesday, January 27th, 1998, and Renee opens the video store by herself
01:11:22
on what would normally have been her day off because she wants to go to a music performance on Saturday.
01:11:27
So she works that day instead to get the day off. At 11.15, she's on the phone with a friend
01:11:33
and then says she has to get off because a customer has come in the door. So she gets off the call.
01:11:39
What happened next is based on all the evidence because there's no witnesses. The man who had entered the store
01:11:46
stabbed her multiple times while she stood in front of the counter of the store.
01:11:51
She collapses. He thinks she's dead. He goes back into the washroom and washes up.
01:11:56
When he's done, he comes out, and she's not where he had left her. She, despite suffering dozens of stab wounds,
01:12:03
fucking Renee Badass is able to drag herself behind the counter trying to get to the phone, but she doesn't make it.
01:12:11
He stabs her again. She was stabbed at least 35 times. Jesus Christ. It's horrifying.
01:12:18
Her attacker then stole about $200 from the till and a couple items from the shop,
01:12:22
and then he ran out pushing past a couple who were walking into the store who were just trying to get porn.
01:12:28
I mean, these people. It took them so long to just even get up the guts. I hate, yeah.
01:12:36
Ugh. And they came upon the bloody scene and called 911. Horrible. I know. So people saw his face as he ran by the bagel store and shit.
01:12:45
And when police arrived, they used tracking dogs to track his movements. It led them through some schools into a nearby wooded area
01:12:52
where they found the killer's abandoned bloody jacket and a pair of gardening gloves that the killer had been wearing.
01:12:58
He like fucking took them off and left them. So let me show you the photo. It's so fucking creepy of the, that's there.
01:13:05
And then. It's a really original name. So this is the jacket, which is like so distinct, right?
01:13:11
That's what's so crazy about this case. And I feel like what's so frustrating almost more so when there's like not a lot of evidence
01:13:16
is when there's so much evidence and yet it still goes fucking cold and no one comes forward
01:13:21
with any information. It's almost like the pieces are right there and no one can put them together.
01:13:25
um so so this is a it's a men's large ocean blue colored high sierra jacket it was sold only at
01:13:34
mervin stores in the u.s oh mervin's remember mervin yeah um so it was only sold in the u.s
01:13:40
during the winter of 1994 to 95 so three years earlier so it's fucking specific as shit right
01:13:45
closest mervin's to sudbury is a six or seven hour drive so like not a lot of people were
01:13:50
fucking sporting this right do you recognize this someone call in please okay Another strange thing about the jacket is that it's the middle of fucking January in Ontario.
01:14:01
And as you and I know, because we inappropriately dress for this trip. It's fucking freezing.
01:14:07
It's fucking freezing. And that jacket's not going to cut it. Yeah. You know? So that's like a weird thing, too.
01:14:11
So they're like, oh, is he from out of town? What's the deal? And inside the coat pocket, they find a single diaper pin.
01:14:18
Ew. Isn't that creepy? Yeah. So many fucking... So back at the video store. Also, sorry, but the idea that they used to use those things near babies is like the most upsetting.
01:14:31
Have you ever undone, like my mom used to have a diaper pin like she saved a couple from when we were babies.
01:14:37
Yeah. And you had to literally pin diapers because I'm 69. But if you flick one open.
01:14:43
Yeah. You're done for. They were fine with sharp shit around babies back then. They didn't care.
01:14:48
Yeah. Yeah. Smoking over the baby as you stick a pen into their diaper. There were no fucking covers on electric outlets. You learned not to do that the first time you stuck a fork in it.
01:15:00
That's how you learn. And then you're like, that's kind of fun. And then you kept doing it and you got spanked for it.
01:15:05
Are you telling us a story, Georgia? I don't know. Like having a recovered memory.
01:15:10
Just say it. Just keep talking. What else? Hey, hey, Janet. Okay. No, I love you. I texted her. She texted me.
01:15:18
We were like, meaning to call each other. And I was like, I'm sick as fuck. Like, I can't talk.
01:15:22
And she was like, she texted back, you love that word. There's your favorite word again.
01:15:27
Well, I have a fucking sore throat, so I'm not fucking going. It's like, she just like mimicked me.
01:15:33
She's such an asshole. This is horrible. Janet. Janet. Okay. Okay. Back at the video store.
01:15:43
the killer's bloody fingerprints are found on the cash box where he sold the money
01:15:49
as well as a bloody footprint and they could figure out that the print came from
01:15:53
a man's size 10 Brooks brand athletic shoe and they could tell it was like the kind of shoe
01:15:58
was a white shoe with a black stripe like they fucking had all this information about this person
01:16:02
that they of course it was a huge story because it's insane so Sergeant David Tafali
01:16:09
of the greater Sudbury police Sudbury yeah You're there, you got it. I'm currently in England.
01:16:16
Then the lead investigator on the case said, quote, Renee fought him and fought him hard.
01:16:23
And because of this, investigators were able to gather DNA from under Renee's fingernails from her scratching the shit out of her attacker.
01:16:31
Amazing. Amazing. Witnesses described the killer as early 20s, 5'10 to 6 feet tall,
01:16:39
140 to 150 pounds, with short dark hair and glasses, and a composite sketch was made of him.
01:16:45
It's creepy. I'll show you in a minute. As for the motive, the investigators didn't,
01:16:51
even though he stole shit, it was like an afterthought, so they didn't think it was robbery.
01:16:57
Investigators discovered that someone had been calling and hanging up on Renee in the weeks leading up to her death.
01:17:07
And they found this out because she never mentioned anything to her friends, family, or coworkers,
01:17:12
but they checked her phone records and someone had been obsessively calling her and harassing her
01:17:17
and, like, they think stalking her and hanging up. And also because coworkers said that she always used to park
01:17:26
as far away from the store as possible, which I think is that fucking annoying-ass rule
01:17:30
when you work in a store and they make you, which shouldn't be allowed. Or she was embarrassed.
01:17:35
She's like, what? I work at the bagel store. I don't even know what you're talking about.
01:17:39
Love, schmear, and... So she would usually park far away for some reason. For whatever reason.
01:17:46
Uh-huh. And then in the week leading up to her murder, she had started parking right in front of
01:17:50
the store but she never mentioned to anyone why And so shortly after the murder the police arrested a 31 man charged him with first murder in the case later admitted they wrongly accused him based on a mistaken match with the fingerprint and issued an apology
01:18:08
Let him go. It wasn't him. And the apology part is how you know it wasn't in the States.
01:18:20
Very good point. Despite a composite sketch of the killer, the distinctive jacket and gloves left behind,
01:18:30
the possibility that the murderer had scratches on his face because he was covered up everywhere else,
01:18:34
so where else would she have scratched him? All this other shit, there would not be another arrest in the case for nearly another 21 years.
01:18:42
Wow. So, police had eliminated 1,800 people of interest when, in early 2017, Greater Sudbury Police released a new composite image of the murder suspects
01:18:56
using our friend Parabon Nano Labs. We know them. We don't know them. They're so fun at the Christmas party.
01:19:04
It's nuts. They take everyone's DNA. So the DNA technology that, remember, right?
01:19:12
Okay, when they're in Virginia, they use a snapshot DNA phenotyping service and they predict what the appearance of the killer would look like
01:19:22
based on ancestry DNA. So I'll show you. Essentially, they do that. Yes. So like a creepy as fuck realistic photo,
01:19:31
and that's the composite sketch next to it. Wow. Yeah. So they, I mean, obviously it's so close and creepy,
01:19:37
and I'll take it away. What do you think? I hate it. Yeah. It's so creepy. This was like right, yeah.
01:19:46
Oops. Okay. Sorry. Look down. You have all. Am I stealing the covers? You have all the covers.
01:19:54
I'm freezing. Okay. That's so funny. Is it just, has it been slowly doing it the whole time?
01:20:03
That's so distracting. Sorry. No, no, no. We're going to have to bring a new, a new setup.
01:20:12
Fitz. God damn it. So creepy. I remember this is like the new thing right before the Golden State Killer was caught based on genetic genealogy.
01:20:24
This was the thing. And it's fucking creepy as shit. Everyone's losing their mind.
01:20:29
And the suspect that they had come up with is a male of northern European ancestry with fair skin, blue-green eyes, brown-blonde hair, and freckles.
01:20:39
Few freckles. And then they added eyeglasses. And yet still nobody was like, yo, that's my brother.
01:20:45
Like someone knew that fucking jacket. you know? So then, so our friend M from earlier, from the murderino, is she here? She's here.
01:20:59
Someone's acting like they're M, but we can't tell for sure until we get her DNA.
01:21:03
Someone. We're going to get a picture up and we'll see if it's you. Someone's drunk and has an M in their name.
01:21:12
So M. My name's Catherine. I'm not. It's me. So she says, in her email to us, she said,
01:21:21
last year was the 20th anniversary, so it started getting a lot of attention again,
01:21:25
and the police were feeling extra pressure to get it solved because she was a pretty young white university student
01:21:30
and not one of those thousands of missing and murdered indigenous women in this country.
01:21:33
That's right. That's right. Good point. Very good point. So. that doesn't mean Renee doesn't deserve it to be, but I also wanted to go ahead and bring that up.
01:21:49
It's a very good point. Okay, so the new lead of the facey face over there brought in hundreds of tips, of course,
01:21:58
and then, okay, and then in early 2018, the law came into effect that expanded Canada's...
01:22:06
someone's nyquil just hit really hard can't eat yet I'm really sick I say it as a joke usually
01:22:28
as it came out of my mouth I could have acted like it was a joke but I just couldn't
01:22:33
you guys Because Canada's National DNA Data Bank, which at the time had only had DNA from convicted offenders
01:22:42
and DNA collected from crime scenes, it expanded and it gave everyone hope of catching Renee's killer.
01:22:50
It was Lindsay's Law, named after 14-year-old Lindsay Nichols, who had gone missing on Vancouver Island in 1993,
01:22:56
which is why this law was passed, and expanded the Data Bank to include DNA from missing persons
01:23:01
as well as from unidentified human remains. so we can find out who is who. So we're not totally sure what led to this crack in the case
01:23:10
because they're not talking about it, but we all fucking know. It's probably something similar to the Golden State Killer.
01:23:18
It's probably genetic genealogy because a couple months ago in early November 2018,
01:23:24
Greater Sudbury Police identified a person of interest via forensic evidence, which led them to obtain a search warrant.
01:23:31
And this led to the fucking arrest of 39-year-old Robert Stephen Wright of North Bay.
01:23:38
Wow. It fucking caught him. Yes. Want to see his picture? Sure. So, he was 18 years old.
01:23:49
What? When he killed Renee. Yep. So on December 12 2018 he was arrested This asshole was an 18 Lockerbie Composite student at the time of the murder where he was voted quietest
01:24:06
Ew. So fucking creepy. God damn it. Listen. Also, sorry. Why are you voting on quietest?
01:24:14
Like, you're not allowed to vote on, like, creepiest. Yeah, exactly. The teacher's like, sorry, the yearbook teacher.
01:24:24
Sorry. Makes the hair on the back of my neck stand up. Pistist. Yeah. Quietist. That's horrible.
01:24:32
It's insane. The school is located about 500 meters or a third of a mile. Oh. Now I understand.
01:24:40
Away from the video store. Oh, no. So, of course, I'm reading all these Reddit theories and people are like, did he fucking
01:24:45
leave school for lunch and go into, like, what the fuck? It's insane. Which actually would be the perfect hiding place.
01:24:52
Right. That's because they wouldn't be like, oh, this murderer is in the high school.
01:24:57
I think they kind of did search, though, because the dogs actually tracked his scent through the high school grounds.
01:25:03
Oh, wow. So, yeah. So this dick, who also goes by Stephen or Steve. Stephen. He's arrested at his place of work, which is the North Bay Regional Health Care Center.
01:25:16
That sounds like a hospital. He worked there as an emergency lab room technician.
01:25:20
So the fucking thing that got him caught, as he's working there, he must have been scared shitless.
01:25:26
Yes, I bet he was. And of course, people describe him as gentle, nice, and quiet.
01:25:30
Insanely quiet, to the point of being upsetting. Right. But to now... I know. Disgusting.
01:25:41
So, just this past Thursday, February 21st, a three-day bail hearing wrapped up in Sudbury Court,
01:25:48
where the court heard 12 hours of testimony on whether or not to give this fucking psychopath bail.
01:25:55
Obviously don't. Unfortunately, there's a court-ordered publication ban on the testimony,
01:26:02
so none of the details can be made public, but the Justice Edward Garreau said he needed more time to consider granting bail,
01:26:11
and he's going to deliver his decision on March 27th. So let's fucking keep an eye on that.
01:26:17
asshole. Not the judge, the fucking... Not mad at him. So, Kim Sweeney, the younger sister
01:26:25
of Renee Sweeney, last spoke to her big sister the night before Renee's murder in 1998, when they
01:26:31
stayed up until 12.30 in the morning talking on the phone, which is something that
01:26:35
Kim's always been glad about. She said, it's been a very long 20 years. I'm so grateful that throughout this time,
01:26:43
you've never forgotten my sister Renee. Not only was she my amazing sister, but she was also my best friend.
01:26:49
And that's the not cold anymore case of Renee Sweeney. Amazing. Yay. 21 years. This is why, I swear, every night before bed I Google cold case and just read the news.
01:27:07
Because there's always just... Another one happening. Every time it's so incredible.
01:27:11
It's true. We live in a great age. A wonderful and yet horrifying time. Do we have time for a home town?
01:27:19
Yeah, let's see. Could we have the lights up a little so we can look? Oh, there's Vince.
01:27:28
Yeah. I took the liberty of looking it up, and it's a pretty big fucking nickel there in Sudbury.
01:27:36
Is it? How big, Vince? How big? Pretty fucking big. Is it? Also, out west, when I used to tour out there, there's a town called Vulcan, Alberta, where
01:27:50
they have a giant Enterprise, Starship Enterprise statue. You guys love that ship.
01:27:55
A whole town of nerds. Canada's the best. I love Canada. I just want to remind...
01:28:02
I want to remind all you guys to always support Canadian comedy and always support Canadian
01:28:12
comics. Please. Thanks, Vince. Good point. All right. Oh, let's take a look. Listen to Karen's rules.
01:28:23
I'm going to tell you some rules while you wave your arms around. You can do that.
01:28:28
That's fine. But this is the thing that helps most when we do our hometown murders.
01:28:34
We love it to be local. Certainly not American. We love it when you are not so drunk you can't tell your own story.
01:28:44
We love it when it's concise, when it has a beginning, a middle, and an end. What happened? Then what happened? How did it end?
01:28:51
That's a beginning, a middle, and an end. Why did I just say that? It's very nerve-wracking to be up here, so keep that in mind.
01:29:01
If you're the kind of person that might, 30 seconds in, have a breakdown, maybe don't raise your hand.
01:29:06
What else? Am I forgetting anything? You're drunk. I don't know. I did drunk. I think they know how to do it.
01:29:13
So who's got a goodie? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, come here. Go that way.
01:29:22
Okay, you can bring the lights down, please. Yeah, lights down. Thank you. I'm trying a new thing of picking people out, but I'm not going to tell anyone what it is.
01:29:28
Yeah, I wouldn't. Because. Ooh, could you bring the lights down before she gets up here?
01:29:34
Yeah, she'll freak out. Close her eyes. Lights down. Don't look. Thank you. Thank you.
01:29:43
Hi. It's Nikki. You're a liner. Nikki, everyone. Where are you from, Nikki? Well, I live in Toronto, but...
01:29:52
My story takes place in Rockwood Ontario Thought I was going to have to clarify that near Guelph but okay
01:30:05
They know. Okay, awesome. So my story takes place, or it starts, when my mom was driving me and my sister
01:30:16
to visit our grandparents on their farm in Rockwood. So as we're turning into their long,
01:30:23
it's like a kilometer long driveway, What? Suddenly, their neighbors, it's a kind of dilapidated barn and weird situation.
01:30:36
It's always looked pretty hoarder-esque there. There are like five cop cars, two ambulances, and I turn to my mom and I'm like, mom, what's going on?
01:30:49
And her face drops and she says, that's Tony Borders' house. so now now we actually have to go back
01:31:00
to when my mom was 19 and one of her very close friends Susan Porter was found strangled to death in a shallow grave
01:31:09
so when she was found it was pretty clear they were able to identify who her killer was very quickly
01:31:21
so Susan Porter her older sister, was married to Tony Border's older brother. And one night, Tony Border
01:31:32
offered to drive Susan home. And it's unclear whether it was consensual or not, but they
01:31:40
engaged in sexual activities, and he was choking her for pleasure, and he went too far, and
01:31:50
she died. And he panicked, he dumped the body, and luckily he was caught. And unfortunately,
01:31:59
he was only charged with manslaughter. So he got, I think it was eight years. So now we get to fast forward back to us driving into the farm. So Tony Border, after he got out
01:32:15
of jail, he went on to get married to a lovely lady named Crystal. Now, Crystal, she had a very
01:32:26
low IQ, and she was a lot younger than Tony, and she hadn't been very educated, and she was just a
01:32:33
very, very sweet woman. But Tony, he was an abusive man, and he was into sexual games and stuff like
01:32:46
that that he would force her into. They had two very young sons, and on the day that we happened
01:32:53
to be driving past, he had set up a noose in their barn. And they had a safe word, and he had said,
01:33:06
okay, I want you to raise me up, and when I get to my sexual level, I will signal, and you'll let me down.
01:33:13
But she was at her end. She was at the end of her rope, literally. And Crystal, when he signaled to be let down, she just didn't.
01:33:30
And she chain-smoked cigarettes for 15 minutes as he hung before she cut him loose.
01:33:40
and because he was so fucked in the head, he had wanted to film all of these sexual activities.
01:33:51
So the whole thing is on camera. Oh, my God. And so at the end of it, she calls the police.
01:33:59
She turns herself in. She said, I killed him. But he fucking deserved it. He totally deserved it.
01:34:05
Oh, my God. Jesus Christ. And she, at her court case, my nanny, who's my grandmother, sorry, British,
01:34:15
she testified, she said that, you know, Crystal was really lovely, she was a really nice lady, that, you know, this was very out of character.
01:34:25
And Crystal ended up only getting two years of house arrest. Holy shit. Holy shit.
01:34:31
Oh, my God. So I just want to add, my mom actually was supposed to be here tonight with me,
01:34:38
but she lives in Perry Sound, and it was icy, and she couldn't get here. Oh, thank God.
01:34:47
I was so afraid you were going to say something else. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
01:34:51
She's very safe. She's at home with her cats. What's her name? Her name's Amanda.
01:34:55
So my sister is, my sister Christina is here with me, so she's part of the story too.
01:35:00
And yeah, so it ends up turning out well. Luckily, that guy got his Jess desserts.
01:35:07
Nikki, everybody. Wow. Great job. So good. Jesus. Great job. It was perfection. That's how you do a hometown murder.
01:35:23
Oh, my God. That was amazing. There's twists. I didn't know I was like oh I absolutely wrote that in my head very differently very differently
01:35:36
the whole thing could have gone south I honestly feel like that's the first time I've ever heard
01:35:41
of a woman in like a revenge killing like that getting that kind of a sentence again we're in
01:35:49
Oh, we're in Canada. Oh, we're in Canada. Stop. So sorry. That's like last night, I'm watching TV and there's a commercial that comes on for me
01:36:00
some cereal and I'm like what the fuck is going on and I'm like oh oh that's right I'm in a
01:36:06
different country it was like it was like some cereal looked just like a cereal commercial and
01:36:10
everything's right and then it looked it was as if I was in a movie where they had to put on a
01:36:14
fake commercial so it was like it was shreddies I think they were called are they delicious I was
01:36:21
just like fucking shreddies what's happening like they couldn't use the brand name in your movie
01:36:25
and so they put a fake one on you? It was like the 555 of cereals. No idea what was going on.
01:36:31
This is two for two of my new picking method of hometowns. Yeah, that's because we're in Toronto, baby.
01:36:39
Maybe it's just because we're in Canada. I'm going to take credit for it, though.
01:36:43
Okay, no, it's all you. It's all you, girl. You guys, you, Toronto, sold out this humongous theater
01:36:50
two nights in a row for us. It's fucking crazy. It's crazy. Last time we were here, I think it was a year ago,
01:37:03
you guys did the same thing, and we got to fucking headline over a bunch of fucking comedy dudes
01:37:10
who are not used to two fucking ladies just talking and selling shit out. So thank you.
01:37:18
This whole community means so much to us. We appreciate you guys so much for letting us do this.
01:37:24
It's such a beautiful fucking thing. to see you guys come together and be friends and share your stories and share your anxieties.
01:37:31
And we just love the community so much. Also, you've given us over 500 Canadian Kit Kats so far.
01:37:39
It's true. We have so much candy right now It is disgusting It crazy And amazing And we love it You guys put caramel in them What the fuck is going on
01:37:52
Yeah, this is a dream come true. I mean, we're like living a dream come true. And it's because of our amazing listeners who support us and are here.
01:38:01
And we just can't thank you enough. We'll never be able to. So thank you so much for being here.
01:38:09
And thank you for being there for each other. It's really amazing. And so stay sexy.
01:38:15
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Goodbye.