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For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. Georgia? Yeah. It's Karen. Hi, Karen.
00:01:48
I'm here to tell you and all of our listeners that today is a very special episode
00:01:54
supported by the Amazon original docuseries Ted Bundy Falling for a Killer. That's right.
00:01:59
The five-part series reframes Bundy's crimes from a female perspective, which is so cool,
00:02:04
featuring interviews with Bundy's longtime girlfriend and her daughter, as well as family members
00:02:09
of the victims, survivors, law enforcement, and more. Learn how one man's pathological hatred of women
00:02:14
collided with the culture wars and feminist movement to culminate in what is perhaps
00:02:19
the most infamous true crime saga of our time. So check out Ted Bundy Falling for a Killer on Amazon Prime Video.
00:02:26
And stick around until the end of the episode because you're going to hear a special interview with the show's producer and director, Trish Wood.
00:02:32
She was incredible. She's a genius. It was a really, really cool conversation that was much longer than what you're going to hear.
00:02:38
That's right. We had to edit it down, and we were really honored to talk to her.
00:02:43
She's such a cool woman, and this project is really amazing. So definitely listen to that at the end of this amazing live show we're about to play for you.
00:02:52
Have fun, guys. Goodbye. Bye. Bye. What's up, Omaha? Hi, friends. Hi, everyone. Okay, let's try that one more time.
00:03:41
Let's try it again. How are you all? thank you so much for being here thanks for coming
00:03:55
I know it's been hard for some of you so I know people are showing up in the shits
00:04:00
and we appreciate the fact that you got here very much yes thank you guys my mic's not on
00:04:12
yes it is thank you there it is hi everyone Here's my mic. This is the mic. Here's my mic, etc. There we go.
00:04:24
Yeah, she did. I have pockets. That's about all I have. Thank you. Oh, I have a safety pin in my pocket for you.
00:04:35
Oh, that was for me for last night because I got this dress yesterday in Kansas City, Missouri.
00:04:45
Donna's Dress Shop, shout out Yes, Donna's Dress Shop, amazing Vintage and modern apparel
00:04:55
Got this dress, brought it to the show Wearing sweats without a backup dress And didn't realize until I put it on
00:05:05
That the cleavage went down to around here It was a Jenny from the Block special
00:05:12
that I didn't realize was happening. It was a good topic of conversation, though.
00:05:19
So we got that. That's true. And so actually, it was so insane. Like at one point, Georgia just went, your boobs are out.
00:05:28
Like it was nuts. I whispered your bras showing, but into a microphone. So that isn't right.
00:05:36
Yeah, it's a different kind of whispering. That's a stage whisper is what they call it in the theater, a stage whisper.
00:05:43
So then in the meet and greet, I can't remember her name, but somebody just walked up and goes, this is for you.
00:05:51
And Georgia had the pocket, so she kept it for me. She kept it right there. But instead you fucking went Martha Stewart on that dress I fucking went to the come and go or whatever your dirty names of your gas stations are You guys
00:06:05
Come on. The fuck. What the? They knew. Filthy. They knew. That's a long con to get people to just keep talking about their store.
00:06:17
I mean, I don't think that their little logo had to be like a gas pump with this gas coming on it.
00:06:23
Seems wrong. But, look, sex sells. We know that of anybody. Clearly. Clearly we know that.
00:06:32
Obviously. And we went in, we ran in, and I bought a sewing kit at a gas station,
00:06:37
and then sewed, sewed like Martha Stewart in the backseat of the rental car as we drove here.
00:06:44
Just like our ancestors did. Yeah. I mean, seriously, you see the amount of cleavage I had tonight?
00:06:52
It was double last night. Who knows what? Thank you, but that's not really what it was like.
00:06:59
Donna was like, let's show everyone. Donna from Donna's Dress Shop. Like, let's show these off tonight.
00:07:07
She's very pro. Pro chest and breast. I mean, who am I, guys? Truly. Omaha, I've been wanting to come here since I saw Dirty Rotten Scoundrels as a kid, which is weird.
00:07:19
Oh, you mean Lady Fanny from Omaha. God, I fucking say that all the time, and it doesn't make any sense,
00:07:27
and it still doesn't, even though I'm in Omaha. They're young people. That's true.
00:07:31
They're very young. Can I show you my favorite headline? Recently, my dad sent this to me, texted it to me today.
00:07:42
Yes. You guys probably have all seen this, but it's pretty amazing. What? Did you know about the magic bridge?
00:07:51
What? I'll tell Georgia. I'll tell Georgia because you already know about it. Whisper it to me.
00:07:58
This what? Whisper it to me. Stay with me. Okay. Georgia. Yeah. There's these guys.
00:08:03
So my dad loves Budweiser. Like in a way where it seems like he's getting paid. Like if you walk into his house at any time of day or night, he'll go, you want a Bud?
00:08:12
Want a cold one? You want a Bud? He's very troubled. Cha-ching every time he says.
00:08:16
If only. So he was very proud about this article. It's a magic fridge. Men find ice-cold beers in a field after long hours of cleaning up Nebraska flood wreckage.
00:08:29
So, yeah. That sounds amazing. It was Gaylord Stouffer and Kyle Simpson, and they were cleaning up debris on Kyle Simpson's property all fucking day.
00:08:42
and near the end of the day, they see like shit and like a pile of shit and they go over to grab it
00:08:49
and it's a little like a, you know, that size refrigerator and they're like, look,
00:08:54
it's a refrigerator and then they open it and it's full of ice cold beer. Stop it.
00:08:59
Yes. That is amazing. If only you were a kegerator, but still. But still. They could just go straight into it.
00:09:07
Yeah, that's incredible. I mean, finally men get a fucking break. I know. Isn't it nice?
00:09:13
It's nice to finally. But there's a B-side to the story. Oh, if someone's beer? Yeah.
00:09:22
Then they had to give it all back. It's our podcast, so everybody got killed at the end of this.
00:09:27
No, not at all. Quite the opposite. Uh-huh. So it goes a little bit viral, right?
00:09:32
Not enough so that I had heard of it, but probably definitely in the state of Nebraska and surrounding.
00:09:38
Lots of dads. dads, beer lovers, small refrigerator lovers, college students, you know the types.
00:09:46
So this guy, Brian Healy, sees the story and goes, that's my fucking refrigerator.
00:09:54
This refrigerator survived his parents' house burning down in 2007. What? Yes. And so after that, they took this charred refrigerator.
00:10:04
They said the reason that he recognized it is because of the char marks on it. Oh, my God.
00:10:09
From the family house fire. And so he basically gets a whole, he goes on there and says, that's my refrigerator.
00:10:19
And that's my beer probably too. Yeah, and that's my beer. Oh, he said he also knew it was his because of the ratio of Bud Light to Bush Light.
00:10:28
Oh. In there. Wow. Yeah. And so are they best friends now? So, yeah, so Brian Healy calls, no, sorry, Kyle Simpson gets Brian Healy's phone number and calls him and says, when they repair my road, I'll drive it back to you.
00:10:49
Aww. And it turns out that they had actually, after the house burned down, they took the refrigerator up to the family cabin.
00:10:57
Like, their whole family shares a cabin, and the cabin was destroyed in the flood.
00:11:01
And so the refrigerator is the only thing left from the fucking cabin. And it floats four miles downstream to Kyle Simpson's shit.
00:11:12
And stays closed. Stays closed, stays ice cold. We're going to need the name, the manufacturer, the make the model.
00:11:18
I need all this information. Promo code murder. Right? Promo code murder. Wow. Yeah, it's a pretty good story.
00:11:29
That's gorgeous. You guys, good job. Judy Healy is also in the article. And she says, because they were like, oh, this is what a terrible story.
00:11:38
And Aunt Judy pops up and is like, we just lost a cabin and a refrigerator. There's people whose lives have been impacted, who are in terrible trouble.
00:11:47
And those are the people we need to help. So we want to use this story to bring awareness to the fact.
00:11:53
Because our refrigerator is a refrigerator. We don care Aunt Judy Aunt Judy Aunt Judy Oh bless her heart But I mean it not in a southern way Bless her heart You mean it in the midwestern way I mean in the real
00:12:08
way. Yeah. And an atheist. But in a good way. I get it. You just dismantle the whole concept.
00:12:18
So anyway, we agree with Aunt Judy. Yeah. So we're donating $10,000 to the Red Cross.
00:12:25
yeah oh my god don't do that don't do that you don't gotta And we're doing it We're doing it in the name of the Omaha Murderinos
00:12:55
So there you go You're all Aunt Judy's tonight You, you, you We're all Aunt Judy
00:13:03
We're all Aunt Judy You're poor thighs from standing up and sitting down and standing up
00:13:11
There's only five more instances where we're going to make you stand up tonight Oh, just wait till we give you all cars.
00:13:19
Oh, speaking of, this is my favorite murder of the podcast. Oh, that's right. This is Aunt Karen Kilgara.
00:13:28
And this is Aunt Georgia Hartster. Right here. Thanks, guys. Steven is at home. Play it up, play it up.
00:13:40
Yeah, yeah, yeah, he's listening. He's been banned from your state. And if you knew why, you'd be glad.
00:13:50
Never trust a mustache. Never. Don't be a fool. Beard, fine. These days, great. Mustache, uh-uh-uh.
00:14:00
Never not been a red flag. Never trust a hipster and a mustache. That's what my grandma told me.
00:14:05
Oh, yeah? Yeah. Back when you were a little kid? Back when, Grandma, tell me about mustaches.
00:14:11
Uh-huh. She's like, I know what you mean by that, Georgia. Yeah. when a man and a woman love each other very much.
00:14:20
Oh, should we sit down? Sure. Okay. Oh. Bye, guys. Bye. You're the best. Thanks for everything.
00:14:31
Look at these red leather booth seats. There we go. Are these from Red Lobster? what if that was on our writer yeah we just demand rub lobster they have to smell like
00:14:48
cheddar bay biscuits yes we should make cheddar bay biscuit candles i think we'll get sued okay let's do that this is a true crime comedy podcast for all of you
00:15:03
drag alongers. Oh, is it my line? So, we often have to explain this at the top of the show
00:15:16
because the people who listen to this podcast obviously passionately and we thank you for that.
00:15:22
Yeah, but except that you bring people here who don't listen and that's why. Like, it doesn't make sense.
00:15:29
You're like, I feel like you're my best friends, but like, if you brought your friend to a party, you'd know that we don't, that they need to, that we don't want them there.
00:15:40
Yeah, I was going in that direction and I was like, shut up, Georgia. Stop it. Well, it's just that we're a special group and we have a special interest.
00:15:50
We're a special interest group. And a lot of people get offended who don't listen to the podcast.
00:15:57
They're like, true crime and comedy, that's a bad combination. and, you know, true crime, you talk about murder.
00:16:03
Murder is the worst thing that could happen to a person and that comedy shouldn't be involved in it
00:16:08
and therefore we hate you, don't come by our church again. I don't know, these things, they come up in my mind.
00:16:16
But we just like to take this opportunity to say, actually, George and I have both been obsessed with true crime since we were kids
00:16:23
and because we are fascinated and horrified and scared but also very interested in the real world
00:16:31
and the way we deal with the real world and the problems and the oppression of the real world
00:16:36
is through comedy and laughter and humor, or we would go fucking batshit berserk.
00:16:42
So we insist upon our right to combine true crime and comedy, and if you don't like it, you can get the fuck out.
00:16:54
And listen, just so you don't feel bad, In Kansas City, we made the drag-alongs stand up while she gave that speech.
00:17:01
So consider yourself lucky. And they did it, too. They did it. That's the weird part.
00:17:07
They were proud. It was kind of offensive. But we get it. I go first. Okay. Hello, beautiful.
00:17:18
I'm Amy Eric, founder of Madison Reed, a hair color company I named after my daughter.
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The future of hair color is here at Madison Reed. Bro, from the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill?
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While supplies last, contact store for availability. I did one of those things where I read about this
00:19:04
and then found an article at the 11th hour that was so fucking interesting that folded all this extra shit in where I was just like,
00:19:12
A, I should have stayed in college, and B, I should do this more than four hours before the show.
00:19:19
It seems like it would be a better idea. But so this is a historical one. And this is the murder of John Sheedy.
00:19:30
Let's not start doing call and response shit at these shows. It's weird. OK, so this most of the information.
00:19:39
So there's a Web site I discovered this weekend doing stories from other cities.
00:19:45
And it's called Murder by Gaslight dot com. and it has all these amazing stories from turn of the century and 19th century, right?
00:19:58
1900s is 19th century. Now is 21st. Whenever there was gaslight, you guys went to college.
00:20:03
Fucking gaslight, that's why they call it gaslight. Why do I have to tell you what centuries are?
00:20:07
Anyhow. So, yeah, so there's a ton of really amazing and kind of stories you've never heard before,
00:20:15
but they're as fucked up and insane as all the ones that we hear from today. Murder's always been the same throughout the years, everybody.
00:20:23
Really makes you think. But then at the 11th hour, as I was saying, I found a website called gildedage.unl,
00:20:32
which is the University of Nebraska at Lincoln. Good job, guys. .edu. How you guys like to do it.
00:20:43
Oh. Oh. And so it was an online, I'm just, I cut and paste what it was because I didn't understand
00:20:49
why there was a whole website, but it was like from a school and like based on a paper
00:20:54
where I was like, it's just a website. But apparently it was an online version of an award-winning article by Timothy R. Mahoney,
00:21:02
professor of history at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln. And the article was called The Great Sheedy Murder Case and the Booster Ethos of the Gilded
00:21:10
Age in Lincoln, Nebraska, which is where this takes place. That sounds smart. I mean, even
00:21:19
reading that just now was really intimidating. I feel like we deserve a degree now in college.
00:21:24
I think we might get an honorary doctorate after this show, for sure. So here's the first
00:21:33
thing I learned in this article. There's a thing in Nebraska in the Gilded Age, which
00:21:38
which is apparently the 19th century. Ninth century. 1800s. The 1800s. Something's wrong with Karen's mic.
00:21:50
Century. And that was basically that in, it may have happened all over the Midwest,
00:21:57
but this is specific to Lincoln. Before Lincoln's development, men from different sectors of society came together
00:22:03
to further their town's growth. So in an effort to attain maximum economic growth, they were often willing to restrain their personal values and opinions and work with others who did not share their lifestyle.
00:22:16
Wait, so they, I don't get it. So like, what I'm assuming is the two Jews that were in the entire state were welcomed into the Presbyterian church.
00:22:29
So generous. And there was a couple Methodists over there. They were like, fine.
00:22:33
They were like, hard labor, hard labor? great. Yeah. Let's do this. And so it was basically, we need to make this city strong,
00:22:41
you know, whatever they want, they wanted to persevere. Cause then eventually when the
00:22:46
train started running through, there was this huge, it was like economic boom growth. I'm
00:22:52
using phrase. I don't know what I'm talking about and you know it. And I know it.
00:22:57
The men who forged the booster ethos came from a variety of occupations, the bulk being attorneys,
00:23:02
politicians, farmers, and businessmen. So it was like greatest people. Across all the lines,
00:23:07
race, creed, probably not color, I can't imagine. It was the 1800s. Let's not pretend.
00:23:16
But basically, they just agreed they were going to put their shit aside and actually care about
00:23:21
where they lived. What an interesting concept, America. I'm so glad we live in a world where,
00:23:27
Oh. Not tonight. Okay. Now, an interesting twist. In the 1880s, the attorneys, businessmen, and other middle-class men attempting to expand Lincoln's economy
00:23:40
became increasingly divided as to what qualified as legitimate business because the traditional boosters believed in any form of business,
00:23:50
be it alcohol sales or prostitution or gambling, they basically were just like, if it's money, it's green,
00:23:58
get it going, let's do this. Basically, right? Yes. Let's make money off the thing that people really like to spend money on.
00:24:05
But, of course, a bunch of people didn't feel that way because temperance was a huge thing at the time.
00:24:13
So there was all these temperance leagues. Of course, churchgoers and church leaders, conservative people, a.k.a. the buzzkills.
00:24:21
So there were some issues with it. But that's just, I'm setting the tone ignorantly.
00:24:29
And yet, Timothy R. Mahoney sure knows what he's talking about. So here we go. 56 minutes southwest of Omaha.
00:24:39
Lincoln, Nebraska is the capital of Nebraska. And in 1891, according to something called Hoy's Directory.
00:24:50
What? I pictured it as a big old-fashioned phone book. Ahoy, hoy. Is that what it is? Ahoy, hoy.
00:24:56
Hoy's directory. What if it is? Dude, that makes sense. It could be. It is. Put it in Wikipedia. It's true.
00:25:06
Yes. Steven, when you hear this, will you put always just said into Wikipedia, please?
00:25:12
We got Steven like 50 different accounts for Wikipedia under different names, so it looks like we're just putting
00:25:20
facts in and anyone's doing it, but it's all Steven. It's all Steven. Steven runs Wikipedia.
00:25:24
he wears a black turtleneck, he's got a weird beard, and he's very vegan. So, according to the Ohoy Hoy directory,
00:25:38
Lincoln was in the midst of a phenomenal population, Boob's bone. I said boob. It's going to be such a great show tonight, everybody.
00:25:49
We're here. in 1880, the population was less than 15,000. And by 1890, 10 years later,
00:25:58
that figure was over 55,000. So it more than tripled in 10 years. Shit. So things were happening in Lincoln.
00:26:07
It was the place to be. It was the place to be. And in most American cities in the Gildan Age,
00:26:16
they had what was called an entertainment district. So basically, when they put the railroads in and the train depot was there, then within, you know, say, five to ten walking blocks of the train depot, they would have the entertainment district, which was houses of prostitution, as well as casinos and saloons.
00:26:37
Shit ton of saloons. It's a fun part of town. Yeah, exactly, right? So that district in Lincoln was basically P Street between the passenger depot and 12th Street.
00:26:48
You know. Real hot spot. Today it's like four Chipotles. It's Chipotle. Chipotle Senior.
00:26:58
Chipotle West. Chipotle Knight. Chipotle, we serve beer. Come on in. So, okay, so this is where our man John Cheedy comes into play.
00:27:09
He was an Irish immigrant, and he moved to Lincoln from Council Bluffs, Iowa, in 1869.
00:27:13
Oh, thank you. We're women. We don't get it. We're from Los Angeles and we don't care about anyone else.
00:27:26
So when we go to a town and they're like, we hate them. We're like, why? You should be friends.
00:27:30
And we don't like football, so we don't get it. Yeah. Do we have football? I don't know.
00:27:39
Oh, yes. The Super Bowl. Yes. Yes. We did great, didn't we? We sure beat them. The fucking fighting Los Angeles agents.
00:27:51
They've been getting kicked ass. The old Super Bowl of Stars. That's right. Okay.
00:27:58
I show you John Sheedy now. Yes, please. John Sheedy. There he is. That's Lincoln.
00:28:04
John Sheedy has rosacea and a lot of odd black hairs. A little colic. Kind of a grid system of black hairs on John Cheaty's very flat face.
00:28:17
Is that a cool little postcard, though? It is. That's John Cheaty right there. Hey, get that mole checked out.
00:28:28
Ugh. I bet, okay, nothing. Wouldn't it be fun if he shaved that beard if his chin ended right below his lower lip?
00:28:38
He was one of those guys that just goes straight fucking back. Or what if it ended at the bottom of the goatee right before the end?
00:28:45
It was really long. There's so many options. The opposite bad option. Exactly. Pick one.
00:28:51
There's always two horrible options that are opposite. He has that mole just to distract you.
00:28:58
What his chin may look like. Over here. Over here. If we could zoom in on the mole, it would have also a white swirl,
00:29:04
so it would hypnotize you into not looking at the chin. Oh. Over here. Chidi. Chidi. Got it.
00:29:14
In the early 1870s, he's running his own casino. So he got right to it. Illegally, of course.
00:29:21
The casino is located on the second floor of Gus Sandler's Saloon. Your favorite place to go on the weekends.
00:29:28
Which is at the corner of 10th and Pete. No one cares. No one cares. Corner of 10th and P, I meant to say.
00:29:39
Corner of 10th and P. In the uptown district of Lincoln. Despite being illegal, the casino's existence is well-known and frequented by Lincoln's, of course,
00:29:51
wealthiest and most prominent citizens including the mayor Carlos C Burr Good for him Great John Sheedy and his casino are not popular with two groups of people in Lincoln
00:30:05
the competing casino owners, of course, illegal casino owners. This is like kind of a scar face with dice.
00:30:14
They're jealous of Sheedy's success because he came in and just immediately was doing great.
00:30:18
And then there's angry conservatives who they see Sheedy's open promotion of gambling
00:30:24
and basically the sinful life. And so they don't think it's good or fair or good for the town.
00:30:30
So, boom. Still, he runs his operation without much trouble. He gets arrested a couple times.
00:30:37
One time they try to come and arrest him. Basically, they know he's the operator.
00:30:43
So he gets arrested for gambling somewhere, and he has to stay in jail until he can pay his, what do you call it?
00:30:49
Bail. Thank you. Tie. but he's rich so it doesn't matter. He gets out immediately.
00:30:59
There's one time they come to try to arrest him for gambling but then he's at home because he's been stabbed
00:31:05
by one of the patrons of his casino and so he's like, yeah, can't get me on that one.
00:31:11
I've got a knife in my gut. Thank God for him. Small blessings of John Sheedy's life.
00:31:18
Okay. Okay, so he basically maintains a stronghold on the underground gambling industry in Lincoln,
00:31:26
and he of course starts paying off the police so they don't bother him. So now we find Mary Sheedy.
00:31:32
All right, this is my new head shot. I'm going to get a real short haircut, but it's going to go up high for some reason.
00:31:45
Okay. Okay. So now we're talking about Mary Sheedy, who's originally named Molly Merrill,
00:31:53
a totally different name. She moved to Lincoln from Illinois with her second husband, George
00:31:59
Merrill in 1879. And she gets a job as a maid at the Arlington Hotel, which is where John Sheedy
00:32:05
lives. And John and Mary either could have met there or they could have met at his casino because
00:32:11
Mary, let's call her Mary, even though her name is Molly, but she switches it at some point,
00:32:17
at that point, which I don't know, because Timothy Mahoney didn't specify in his article,
00:32:23
and therefore, if Timothy doesn't know, neither do I. Mary and her second husband, George,
00:32:30
like to drink. They like to go to the casinos. They like to gamble. So they could have met there.
00:32:36
could have been, she could have been his maid in the hotel. But essentially, it isn't long before
00:32:43
Mary starts cheating on George. And in 1880, George finds out about Mary's infidelities,
00:32:48
and they get into a fight. He locks her out of their apartment, yelling that he, quote,
00:32:53
refuses to live with such a damned hoo-er. It's an interpretation. I don't know if you
00:32:59
pronounced it that way. She's a hoo-er. And then he sells all their furniture and moves back to
00:33:05
Illinois and leaves her in Lincoln by herself. Okay. So this is another thing that was in that
00:33:13
article. They talk about, because there was an index of all these definitions. And when I come
00:33:20
upon this, which isn't directly related, but I had to read it anyway, because the subject is
00:33:27
true womanhood. And then it says, historians develop the concept of, quote, true womanhood
00:33:32
to help understand gender in the 19th century United States. Oh, dear. The concept encompasses the range of values
00:33:39
associated with respectable women that emerged during that time period, including domesticity, purity, and piety.
00:33:49
We were going to call our podcast that, but we thought it would be too long. Bragging, bragging a little.
00:33:55
I don't think the shirts would be cute at all. Then right underneath true womanhood is unruly women.
00:34:01
and it says to the dismay of its advocates both male and female many women in Lincoln
00:34:09
and throughout the United States did not conform to true womanhood. You're fucking right about that.
00:34:18
Instead many women chose not to marry and sought to survive through other means and given the limited choices
00:34:25
granted to women in the 19th century many decided that a life of prostitution would be their best option.
00:34:31
Right? This comes up so much in these old stories that we do, where it's basically, it's the 19th century, and someone, oh, I don't know, walks outside their motherfucking house.
00:34:48
And whether it's that they're in love with someone who convinces them they're going to marry them, and then gets knocked up, has sex with them because they think they're going to get married, gets knocked up.
00:34:58
the guy bails, she's the fucking harlot with a Scarlet A, and he runs for mayor and has the best life ever.
00:35:05
It's that, or you get raped and the same thing happens, or any number of ways to step in shit and you're fucking done for.
00:35:13
And so that's really what they're talking about here is how unruly women, it was forced on you most of the time.
00:35:22
If you didn't stay pretty or get married when you were 22, you were pretty fucked.
00:35:30
God forbid you don't want to get beaten by a husband. Yes. I would rather. Right.
00:35:34
If you don't like getting punched in the face, you are an unruly woman. There is that.
00:35:40
And we're not even addressing how it was ten times worse for women of color. So, yeah, there was unruly women everywhere.
00:35:47
So clearly I think Mary probably was just like yeah I don want to I going to fucking get with this guy He got money in a casino and that guy took all my furniture So yes I got boyfriend number three Fuck you Sounds great
00:36:05
This is why they wouldn't let us have pockets, all those unruly women with their knives and their guns pissed off.
00:36:09
Oh, oh, oh, if we had pockets. So Mary moves in with John Sheedy, and their relationship regresses.
00:36:16
John takes Mary on a trip to New Orleans, and on that trip, she says, you either marry me or I stay here and you never see me again.
00:36:23
Shit. Because she knows she's on the fucking bubble. This fucking chick. Yeah. I'm sure she was super funny and had a great personality and was fun to drink with.
00:36:37
He proposes on the spot, and they return to Lincoln as husband and wife. Me cute.
00:36:45
Right? That's what you call it. So his casino business continues to grow, and he starts using his money to acquire, buy, and build real estate.
00:36:57
So in the 1880s, he actually builds the Sheedy Building in downtown Lincoln. So this is the block.
00:37:05
The Sheedy Building was at 1211 P Street, and this is the north side of P Street between 9th and 11th.
00:37:14
And it said it was a large three-story building. So it's either this one, that one, that one, or that one.
00:37:19
Well, it's adorable no matter what. Cute. Okay. Does it still look like that, you think?
00:37:27
I don't, yes. It's exactly like that, right? Is it in black and white still? There's all those horses.
00:37:33
Just fucking horses everywhere. Wild. Free. So he builds this building. They move into an apartment in the building.
00:37:44
and then there's businesses in the building. Obviously, that's how buildings work.
00:37:53
Okay, so in January 1885, Harrison Littlefield files the first series of complaints
00:38:00
of the Law and Order League in the county court charging that John Sheedy and other men
00:38:05
are operating a gambling hall. So they're trying to, like, we're trying to clean up the town or whatever.
00:38:11
And he evades, Sheedy evades arrest. that time. Then in 1890, John and Mary take another trip, this time to Buffalo, New York.
00:38:19
But this time, while there, Mary falls ill and is treated for a, quote, disease peculiar to women.
00:38:27
John and Mary get into a fight, and John leaves her in Buffalo and goes back to Lincoln without
00:38:33
her. He couldn't have done that in New Orleans, or at least she'd have some fun. No offense to
00:38:38
the one person who woohooed for Buffalo. So she's now by herself in Buffalo. So she meets a man named Harry Wahlstrom,
00:38:47
who's a machinist and a traveling salesman. Oh, they're so charming. That specific combination.
00:38:54
They fall in love. It doesn't last, of course, because she's basically trying to keep a roof over her head,
00:38:59
is what I'm imagining. She eventually returns to Lincoln to work things out with John.
00:39:05
But Harry Wahlstrom follows her to Lincoln. Okay, so now we're back in Lincoln. Mary, she's back in 1890, early 1891, and she and John make up,
00:39:16
and everything seems normal until the night of January 11th, 1891. Okay, so it's about 8 o'clock at night, and John leaves the house to go to work at the casino
00:39:26
when a strange man suddenly jumps out of the shadows and bashes him in the head with a leather-covered cane.
00:39:32
What? Oh, sorry, a leather-covered steel cane. It still doesn't make, I still don't.
00:39:38
Okay. It was like his cane was wearing chaps. Okay. Got it. Really tight ones. Got it.
00:39:48
Yeah, I can't, I don't know. It's just a fucking super dapper guy that also attacks people.
00:39:56
Yeah. He's stuck three times on the side of the head before finally managing to pull out his pistol,
00:40:02
but he shoots and misses. so the attacker drops the cane and runs away and he dances away
00:40:11
so mary goes out here's the commotion goes out helps john back into the house tends to his wound
00:40:23
sends for a doctor calls the police um so there's also neighbors there that are helping as well the
00:40:29
doctors bandaged John's head. They give him painkillers, cocaine. It was all cocaine back
00:40:36
then. And his injuries are really bad, but as far as the doctors can tell, they're not fatal.
00:40:43
So later that same night, just as John's about to go to bed, Mary fixes him a cup of coffee
00:40:48
with some sleeping powder in it to help him rest. And in the middle of the night,
00:40:54
John suddenly becomes paralyzed and then falls into a coma. And he remains comatose for a full
00:41:00
day. And then by 10 o'clock the next night, John Sheedy is dead. So this death, which is really a
00:41:08
murder, sends the town of Lincoln into a frenzy. It's, of course, all over the press. It's all
00:41:13
anyone can talk about. He was a very well-known person in town. And people, of course, feel less
00:41:20
safe in a place they felt very safe, but they also start doubting that the prominent figures,
00:41:26
the mayor and the cops and everything, can actually control the city. They're starting to feel like
00:41:32
if they can't make it safe for someone like John Sheedy, how can it be safe for me, the farmer that
00:41:37
just drives in every once in a while to cash in some corn or whatever. So everyone gets real
00:41:43
uncomfortable. So there's an inquest at 9 a.m. on January 13th, 1891. It's a judge, a jury, lawyers,
00:41:54
and police officers that all gather to hold this inquest regarding John death But of course a shit ton of townspeople show up as well because they want to know what going on and of course all the reporters
00:42:05
And the coroner has to ask all non-essential individuals to leave, which must be very hurtful.
00:42:11
Yeah. Define essential. I feel essential. Yeah. I feel like I care. That makes me essential to this inquest.
00:42:20
They're like, ma'am, get out. you go back to the whore house. They had to yell that over and over. So this, the fact that all the
00:42:31
non-essentials got dismissed raises alarm bells because now they're thinking there's a cover-up
00:42:36
and something's going on that they don't want to tell the press or the people. So they, they
00:42:43
determined that Chidi's cause of death is from internal bleeding caused by the blows to the head
00:42:47
and it's ruled a murder, but the people aren't buying it because they think if the head injuries are because of Sheedy's death,
00:42:54
he would have died immediately or much sooner. But despite the ruling, an investigation into the whereabouts of the man
00:43:04
who attacked John Sheedy begins. So, Police Chief Samuel Mellick and Detective James Malone,
00:43:11
let's see these fuckers. Oh. Okay. Why are his eyes bleeding? You've seen this horror movie, right?
00:43:30
Where the guy whose eye beard comes to ask you questions? No. It's like someone, like in Big Lebowski,
00:43:41
when they shade it over something someone else had drawn on the top, and then it also is scary.
00:43:46
Yes. It's from a scary person? Yeah. I get it. I mean, I know this whole thing was from a long time ago,
00:43:56
but couldn't we get someone who knew what they were fucking doing to draw it? Yeah.
00:44:03
These were the only pictures available. This is what they got. That can't be right.
00:44:11
Where did I go? Where did I go? Okay. So they're questioning Mary and other witnesses to try to figure out who this attacker is.
00:44:21
And Mary and a few of the witnesses say they saw a black man running down 12th Street,
00:44:26
and they believe that he must be the culprit. And a local pawn shop owner comes forward and corroborates that story,
00:44:32
saying that he'd recently sold a leather-bound steel cane to a man who was actually a local
00:44:39
named William Monday McFarland, which is the best fucking nickname of all time. So Monday McFarland is found two days later just hanging out in a bar in Uptown Lincoln,
00:44:50
and he's arrested. And it's the turn of the century, so you can imagine that he was treated wonderfully by the police.
00:44:58
In custody, he's subjected to long bouts of questioning, and then he's held in a sweat box, which is a windowless, airless, tiny room.
00:45:06
And despite this brutal treatment, he maintains his innocence until Police Chief Malik, I think he was that one, and Detective Malone threatened to release McFarlane to the angry mob that's outside the jail.
00:45:24
And then Monde McFarlane confesses that he's the one who attacked John Sheedy. But he says, twist-a-roo, he was hired to do it.
00:45:34
not by rival casino owners, not by the Temperance League. Yeah, the fucking Temperance League.
00:45:42
Some really old ladies with Bibles are like, could you just kill him? We're so sick of this.
00:45:47
Drinking, gambling, hit him in the head a bunch of times. He was actually hired by Molly, Mary, Meryl, Chidi, May, Marlene.
00:46:01
Shit. But so when Monday McFarland, oh, so this is how they know each other. Monday McFarland is a barber at Beverly Crampton's Barbershop, which is in the Sheedy Building.
00:46:15
Oh, business. That's right. One of the businesses. That's why I was making sure to tell you that businesses are put into buildings after they are built.
00:46:24
Oh, man. Foreshadowing. I fucking, I led you right to the door. We didn't know. We had no idea.
00:46:29
I didn't want this moment to be unsatisfying if you're one of those people that didn't know where businesses go.
00:46:38
So he's downstairs in Beverly Crampton's Barbershop, which is where I want to go get my hair done.
00:46:44
And he gets hired by John Cheedy to be Mary's hairdresser. And so he would go up to their apartment every week and cut Mary's hair real high and tight is how she liked it.
00:46:58
Just never let it down at all. And of course, over time, Mary and Monday became close,
00:47:08
because you tell your hairdresser everything. Oh, my God. Girl, did you hear that burp?
00:47:14
Was it mine? No, it was mine. Oh. Was it mine? Because I've been holding one this whole time.
00:47:24
Let her rip. I already did, but I put the microphone not far enough away from my mouth,
00:47:28
And I was like, oh, they heard that. No, I was doing that thing where I'm now in the place where I spend so much time by myself,
00:47:34
I don't know if I'm doing things out loud or not. I didn't hear one. You didn't?
00:47:40
A little pause, but I would not have classified it as a verb. Okay, good. Maybe I'll start doing this.
00:47:45
Yeah. Like an old-fashioned, like, handicapped drunk. I wish nothing more than that I had saved it and could do it right now,
00:47:52
but I'll let you know when I can. Okay, you don't even have to let me know. Just surprise me.
00:47:57
Okay. Not during a sad part. Okay. Agreed. Agreed. Okay. What was that thing we were saying yesterday? Oh, I said Georgia burped,
00:48:09
but right before she burped yesterday, I said, here's me, but I was talking about something else.
00:48:15
So it was like, here's me. And then we're like, that's what you should say before every burp.
00:48:20
Here's me. I think, yeah, I love it. And that's just who I am. And I won't apologize for it.
00:48:26
Except when I say excuse me. Okay. So over time, Mary confesses to Monday that her marriage to John Sheedy is a complete sham.
00:48:36
And that he cheats on her regularly. And then she confides that she also cheats on him with Harry Wallstrom, the guy from Buffalo.
00:48:45
The machinist. And all that confiding takes a toll. And then they start fucking.
00:48:52
Monday and Mary. That's right. You can only confide so much before you're like, guess who else I'm sleeping with?
00:48:59
You. Put down that comb. Yeah. So then one day while he's washing and setting her vagina.
00:49:16
That's cheap. No. No. Don't. Don't. That's hacky. I don't work blue like that. It looks good.
00:49:23
There's so many other options. We don't need to work blue. I couldn't help it. I loved it.
00:49:28
It just, my fingers made me do it. I loved it. I was typing. I was like, do it. Do it.
00:49:33
It was such a twist that we didn't expect it. Then one day, Mary tells Monday that she has a deal she'd like to propose.
00:49:44
She says that if he kills John Sheedy for her, she'll pay him $20,000. That's a lot of money.
00:49:50
How much do you think it is in today's money? 8,000 bitcoins. Which is, you're right, because it's over half a million dollars today.
00:50:01
When someone goes that high, they're lying. You know what I mean? Yes. Like, that's bullshit.
00:50:06
If someone's like, oh, I'd love for you to do this thing. I can't do it. It's such a pain.
00:50:12
Kill somebody. Anyway, half a mil? You're lying. Like, if you, yeah. Yes. No. I don't think so.
00:50:22
Are you asking me if I can't? Yep. I'm asking you to kill my husband. So she explains that if John dies, she stands to inherit his estate, which is now worth roughly $200,000, which is over $6 million in today's money.
00:50:47
Shit. So at first he refuses, of course, because murder is bad. and but then she threatens to tell john about the affair that they're having and so uh that's a huge
00:51:00
threat and obviously that's like saying i'll kill you because it's a black man having an affair with
00:51:05
a white woman so then he is forced to agree um so he tells police he actually had tried to kill
00:51:11
john cheedy two other times whoa both times by trying to shoot him he just missed both times
00:51:19
That's the thing about hiring any random person to kill someone. Like, most people aren't good at it.
00:51:25
Yeah, I would say if you're going to hire someone, go ahead and get a professional.
00:51:29
Yeah. And not someone who's like, I don't know, guns are crazy. I'd rather not kill someone, but if you're going to blackmail me, I guess I'm okay.
00:51:39
But I like the idea that he went from a gun, like, oh, that didn't work. Oh, I'm terrible at this.
00:51:43
Let me get a steel cane encased in leather. That's it. Okay, but the real news was that although Monday admits to attacking John Sheedy with the metal cane,
00:51:54
he tells police it was Mary who actually killed John by poisoning him. Monday says Mary and her lover, Harry Wahlstrom, were the masterminds behind the entire murder plot.
00:52:07
So both Mary and Harry Wahlstrom are arrested for murder. Charges are dropped against Wahlstrom due to lack of evidence.
00:52:13
So on May 4th, 1891, there's the trial of Monday McFarlane and Mary Sheedy. McFarlane recants his confession.
00:52:21
Of course, he says that he was coerced by police, and both he and Mary plead not guilty.
00:52:28
Mary uses John Sheedy's old attorneys for her defense. But, of course, Monday's unable to afford...
00:52:34
Oh, wait. Show us stuff. There's Monday McFarlane. Look at that dapper motherfucker.
00:52:40
No wonder he had a leather, steel-bound chain. That guy's your hairdresser? I mean, you're going to...
00:52:47
Okay. I mean, that's a good picture. That's a great one. This is a different illustrator than the one who had the eye bleeder.
00:52:56
So Monday can't afford, you wouldn't be able to tell by his motherfucking top hat.
00:53:02
He can't afford a lawyer, so he has to get court-appointed lawyers. Now, John Sheedy's brother Dennis comes in from Denver.
00:53:12
He's also rich. He's a banker in Denver. He hires two Pinkerton detectives and a whole team of attorneys to work on his case.
00:53:21
He also enlists the assistance of a reformed politician named John Fitzgerald, who was anti-gambling and one of John Sheedy's biggest enemies.
00:53:31
So Fitzgerald is an appointed co-administrator of John Sheedy's estate, which means if Mary's found guilty, Dennis and John Fitzgerald get all control of Sheedy's estate
00:53:44
in his whole fortune. Fucking sidebar. Dennis doesn't seem like an old name. I'm so surprised that there's a Dennis back in 1800s.
00:53:52
Yeah, that's a 70s name. That's a 70s name. Dennis comes in and he got really long sidebars and an acoustic guitar Yeah And he just wants to chill Jam and chill You like Dennis are you wearing sandals
00:54:05
Yeah. It's 1891. Yeah. Quit chasing the summer and get to work. Come on, take that puka shell necklace off and get serious about this case.
00:54:15
What's also interesting is the law about a spouse not being able to inherit their other, would you say other spouses?
00:54:26
You just have to say spouse again. To see spouse's fortune if they are being tried for their murder, that was a brand new law that had gone into effect nine days before.
00:54:37
Before John's murder. So it had just happened. Okay, so this was such a high-profile and divisive case that it took a week,
00:54:46
and they had to screen 216 potential jurors to find 12 people who hadn't already formed a biased opinion about this case.
00:54:54
Because you were either fucking pro-gambling or fucking Jesus is on your shoulder and you're pissed.
00:55:02
Like, they couldn't find anybody that was in the middle. Well, they did. They did eventually.
00:55:06
So then once they're selected, both the prosecution and the defense agree to try Mary and Monday McFarland together,
00:55:14
each believing that that would weaken the other side's case. So Monday McFarland recants his confession, but it's still read aloud in court by the prosecution.
00:55:25
And that ends up being the only evidence that they have. The rest is purely circumstantial.
00:55:32
McFarland claimed Mary poisoned John, but when a chemist analyzes John's stomach, liver, spine, and other organs,
00:55:41
there are no traces of poison found. Shit. So that actually could have been his story.
00:55:46
Yeah. That everyone's, oh, yeah, yeah, the wife poisoned him. Of course she did.
00:55:50
So after 18 days, this is kind of miraculous, the jury finds both Mundy McFarland and Mary Sheedy not guilty of the murder of John Sheedy.
00:55:59
I did not think that was going to happen. I didn't either, and I wrote this up. Wow.
00:56:08
After the trial, Monday McFarland gets the fuck out of Dodge, moves away from Lincoln, and you know whenever he hears from him again,
00:56:14
and I bet you he changed his name to Wednesday. In 1892, Mary Sheedy marries another man named Max Burst,
00:56:23
who works as a salesman for the American Tobacco Company, and they move to San Francisco.
00:56:28
Oh, I'm so sick of the sound of my own voice. In 1893, Mary tries to sue for control of John's estate,
00:56:37
but the brother Dennis, the right of the estate, had been transferred to him after the case.
00:56:43
Mary had been awarded a small monthly allowance, and so she was like, I think I should have the estate.
00:56:49
And they're like, no. And she goes, can I have a slightly bigger allowance? And they're like, no.
00:56:52
And she's like, sounds good. I'm just going to stay here. So she loses her case and she lives the rest of her life in beautiful Northern California.
00:57:01
And that is the story of the murder of John Sheedy. Oh, my God. Yeah. So did she do it?
00:57:10
I mean, it's hard to say because the whole thing is there were probably 30 different people who wanted that guy dead.
00:57:19
Yeah. So is it easy to blame the wife? is it easy to blame the probably one of five black people in town?
00:57:27
If your name is Dennis, you can fucking blame whoever you want. If Dennis comes in with his Colorado cash and says whatever the fuck he wants.
00:57:33
I mean, like, it didn't seem like, you know, like we're going to get the square answer.
00:57:39
That's bananas. I like to present stories where not only is there no solution, but it's also just kind of weird feeling at the end.
00:57:48
I don't think she did it. I don't think she did. they son. But I mean, I feel like
00:57:54
probably over the years, people have put it together where it's like, well, you know exactly
00:57:58
how many husbands she's had. And you know exactly how many affairs she's had. Right.
00:58:02
So I feel like that drives you all the way to like, then she poisoned him. Or it's like,
00:58:06
well, no, she didn't. Actually, science says she didn't poison him. If two had been
00:58:10
poisoned, two husbands, maybe I would think it was. If two husbands had been poisoned, I'd have a way better story
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That's K-N-I-X.com. Code FLOW15. So speaking of weird stories, we always talk about how we go into these towns and we're like,
01:01:05
how the fuck have we not heard about this story? And then you hear about it and you're like, holy shit.
01:01:12
So this is one of those. This is the murder of Carrie Farber. and uh i got most of this i i didn't have a ton of uh information and then i watched an episode of
01:01:24
uh the award-winning show snapped oh i don't think it's won any awards um but it's fucking
01:01:32
good and it gives you a lot of information and details etc i think it won a tony great yeah
01:01:37
it's a good one and a grammy for the opening music it's got awards everywhere okay so
01:01:45
Carrie Farber, she's born and raised in Macedonia, Iowa. What? Not the original Macedonia.
01:01:56
Well, the one from Iowa, little known fact, is the original one. Is that true? It started here?
01:02:01
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Steven, Wikipedia. Steven. Chase that Macedonia Wikipedia page.
01:02:09
She's fucking totally, oh, there's your. Oh, guys. John Sheedy is buried underneath this tombstone.
01:02:18
Hopefully till this very day. We gotta hope. So she's fucking brilliant, super high IQ, smart, funny,
01:02:26
but she's also like super friendly and outgoing. Everyone loves her. She gets a degree in computer science while she's in college,
01:02:36
which is probably the hardest fucking degree to get. We're never getting a, what's it called, degree in that,
01:02:41
where they give it to you. Or anything. I mean, truly. She has a kid while she's in college, which she freaks out about,
01:02:49
but ends up raising her kid as a single mom. And her son, Max, is like the light of her fucking life.
01:02:55
They're super close. And as she raises him with the help of her family, she dates casually.
01:03:03
So her family didn't ask any questions when she was like, I'm dating this fucking, this dude named Dave from Council Bluffs.
01:03:10
I'm going to go spend the weekend with him. And they're like, great, have fun. She had met him just a couple weeks earlier and was spending the weekend with him.
01:03:18
So Monday, November 13, 2012, she's supposed to leave his house and go live the rest of her life.
01:03:26
But she doesn't show up for her job in Omaha, and she doesn't pick up her son from school that day.
01:03:33
So, of course, her friends and family are like, this is out of character. What the fuck?
01:03:37
But right away, she starts sending texts to her family being like, hey, I'm just going to fucking split town right now.
01:03:44
Goodbye. I need to, like, clear my head or whatever the fuck. Leave me alone. And it's, of course, out of character.
01:03:51
Yeah. I feel like we've, this has come up a couple times. I feel like there should be, everybody should get a system set up with their family.
01:03:58
That if everybody agrees, like, talk about it at Thanksgiving. If you're going to text me to tell me you're leaving for a while,
01:04:05
like going to Cuba or whatever the fuck bullshit thing these people make up, that there has to be like a safe word the person actually includes in the message
01:04:14
where it's like, and this is how you know. Or you have a safe word, and if you're texting someone like,
01:04:20
everything's fine, nipple, like then you know. You know, like things aren't fine.
01:04:25
Oh, my nipples itch or whatever. I don't know why I went with nipples. Mom? Is everything fine, Mom?
01:04:33
We don't usually talk about nipples that much. Yes, nipples. We're just trying to set up safety systems.
01:04:40
Yes. You pick your own fucking word. No, you don't. It's nipple. Don't pick Georgia's.
01:04:46
Georgia already has nipple claim. You can do areola if you want. That's fine. That's fine.
01:04:52
That's fine. Yes, I totally agree with that. And we're like, call me. And they're like, nope.
01:04:58
That's like red flag. Yeah. Okay. Right. So just said that big news shouldn't be texted. Right. Lots of things shouldn't be texted, but especially I'm leaving for an undetermined amount of time.
01:05:09
That's right. I think if there's not like three exclamation marks after every sentence in my text, you know, it's not me.
01:05:15
OK. And like a cat with heart, the cat emoji with hearts in its eyes. Not me. Not you. No.
01:05:21
Okay, nipple. And then she starts texting her friends, being like, fuck you, leave me alone,
01:05:29
and being vulgar with them, which is so not her, telling them to leave her alone.
01:05:35
And she said, I asked my son Max if he wanted to come with me, and he said no, so I just left.
01:05:39
And Max is already a kid, so he's like, that's bullshit. it And then erotic messages start appearing on her Facebook And Carrie mother of course knows that her daughter wouldn intentionally disappear and leave her son behind So her mom a couple days later files a missing persons report And when the police ask if Carrie has any issues with mental health
01:06:07
she has to tell them that Carrie was actually diagnosed bipolar, but her meds were like, you know, helping her manage that and she was fine.
01:06:15
But of course, the police hear that and they're like, oh, well, she got off her meds and ran off.
01:06:20
And don't take it that seriously, but they still kind of look into it. About two months after Carrie seemingly skips town, on January 10th, 2013, her 2002 Ford Explorer is located in Dave, the dude she was spending the weekend with, in his apartment complex right there.
01:06:38
But he's the one who calls it in. He's like, this fucking car just showed up. But they don't find any signs of foul play.
01:06:47
So this dude, Dave, they're like, let's look into him. Great. they track him down and question him.
01:06:55
They're like, what the fuck? She's been missing since she left your house, supposedly.
01:06:59
What's going on? And he's like, oh, hell no. I haven't seen her. In fact, she's been sending me fucking harassing texts and emails as well
01:07:07
and, like, hands over his phone. So shortly after she left that morning, Carrie sent a text to Dave saying she wanted to move in together.
01:07:16
And they'd only been dating for, like, two weeks casually. Yeah. So she's like, hey, I know we're dating casually for two weeks, but let's move in together.
01:07:25
And we're also dating other people, but let's do it. And he was like, no. And then she starts sending him harassing and threatening emails and texts, including over 12,000 emails sent from her email address.
01:07:40
12,000. And I get numbers wrong all the time. How much time had passed? I don't know.
01:07:48
Well, like a year? two weeks this goes on for let's say the duration of it which is three years
01:07:56
so 12,000 maybe it's right away I don't know which in today's emails is half a million
01:08:05
yeah and then she starts sending them from different email accounts that have variations of her name
01:08:13
Carrie Farber along with his last name like saying I'm obsessed with you Like you write it in a notebook when you're in sixth grade.
01:08:21
Exactly. But instead, nowadays, you make an email address about it. And thousands of texts from her from more than 25 different phone numbers.
01:08:31
So she claims in the text that she's pregnant with his baby, and another one asks how to find a hitman to kill this other girl that Dave is dating,
01:08:41
because, you know, they're both casually dating each other and dating other people,
01:08:43
and she's like, I'm going to fucking hire a hitman and kill this girl you're dating.
01:08:46
and contains details of Dave's whereabouts, photos of his apartment and his car,
01:08:53
and shows pictures of the girl he's dating's two kids, like stalking. And they have subject lines like,
01:09:01
watching and see, I'm really here and shit. Yeah, I want to see Dave. There we go.
01:09:08
Dave's like, I fucking hate email. I hate it. I can't do it anymore. That's a screen grab from the snapped episode.
01:09:17
There we go. Okay. So, then one day, Carrie's mom, who's of course like fucking frantic and like, this isn't my daughter,
01:09:27
gets a message from Carrie saying, hey, I sold all my furniture since I'm not fucking coming back.
01:09:36
Here's a photo of the check that I got from the person who's buying the furniture for like five grand.
01:09:41
They're going to come get the furniture and I need you to give it to them. And Carrie's mom's like, fuck, no, bitch, you better call me.
01:09:47
I know this isn't you. And so she takes the check to the investigators, and the check is signed by a woman named Liz Gollier.
01:09:57
So the cops go to talk to her, and she's like, fuck that shit. I am the girlfriend who's dating Dave, who Liz is stalking me, or who is, I'm being stalked by Carrie as well.
01:10:08
Okay. Does this make sense? Yes. Am I getting this across? That one I got, yes. Okay.
01:10:11
Yeah. So she's the girl he's dating. like she's being set up to be involved in that. Right. Okay. So Liz Gollier, she's a single mom.
01:10:21
She's from Michigan. She'd moved to Omaha to raise her two kids, met Dave online. Um, and they had
01:10:27
casually dated on and off, but agree they're both. And I wrote DTF and that's just their thing. It's
01:10:34
casual. Yeah. You know, wink, tongue out, winky. Yeah. Oh no. Oh no. So Liz was currently off with Dave and that she had run into Dave when Carrie and Dave were together and was like fine with it.
01:10:54
And she's like, I'm getting harassed by Carrie as well. So she's sending me threatening messages, calling me a whore.
01:11:01
Her car gets spray painted saying like fucking whore and all this shit. And the harassment does bring Dave and Liz back together and they start dating, bonding over their mutual insanity.
01:11:13
things happening to them. And they even get texts from Carrie when they're together.
01:11:20
So then Liz, so then Dave gets an email from Carrie and she's like, I'm going to light
01:11:27
Liz's fucking house on fire if you don't start dating her. And then Liz calls Dave and is like, my fucking house is on fire.
01:11:34
No. Yeah. And he like rushes over to be by her side. Her fucking house burns down and shit.
01:11:40
Her kids are fine, but all her pets die. I know. When you say all her, there's a few.
01:11:49
Oh, sorry. You don't want to. Sorry. What am I doing? Sorry. I'll just say one is a snake, which that's it.
01:11:56
It's just two snakes. Don't worry. Nobody should care. Oh. No, I love snakes. That was me trying to solve the problem I started.
01:12:06
Sorry. There's one guy with a python wrapped around his neck in the back that's a single tear going down his face.
01:12:12
I'm sorry. So, there we are. Okay, so it's fucking three years of this. And Carrie has missed birthdays, including her son's birthdays.
01:12:27
Her son graduates from high school and she misses that. Like, she's missing important family things that are obviously, it's not real.
01:12:34
And her mom and family is adamant that it's not her writing the emails and posts.
01:12:39
It's not fucking Carrie. So in December 2015, Liz Gollier, she, this is the girl dating Dave,
01:12:46
she goes to the Omaha Cold Case Unit to show the more threatening emails by Carrie.
01:12:50
And she's like, I'm being harassed. You need to get this woman away from me. But this time she says that the emails are being sent from Dave's other fucking ex from before her.
01:13:01
So it's a woman named Amy that Dave had been with for more than a decade or almost a decade.
01:13:06
And it's the mother of her two children, his two children. Is this making sense?
01:13:10
Do I need to clear anything up? Okay. So Liz is like, now I'm being harassed by this other woman.
01:13:17
Maybe it's the other woman who's doing all this shit. And so the day after Liz goes to the investigators with the emails from Amy,
01:13:23
Liz calls 911, and she's like, hey, I've been shot in the leg. Yes. She's walking at Big Lake Park in North Council Bluffs
01:13:32
when a woman comes up behind her with a gun and tells her to get to the ground and then says, how do you like fucking Dave,
01:13:38
and shoots her in the leg and runs off. Sorry, can I do a quick sidebar? Yes. What is it like to fuck Dave?
01:13:46
Because these people are nuts about it, apparently. Yeah. What tricks did he learn?
01:13:58
Winky face, tongue out. Like a really romantic dinner at a beautiful Italian restaurant and then Dave leaves forward and he's like, hey.
01:14:14
You know how Dave is. I know how to do it. And of course, Liz is down in the hospital.
01:14:21
She survives. Despite a lot of blood loss, the police come in and are like, this was Amy, right, the ex.
01:14:26
And she's like, I fucking think it was. So police go and question Amy. And she's like, yo, I was home with my kids in my fucking pajamas when this happened.
01:14:36
And then her neighbor corroborates that. So they're like, this is weird. Scratch the head thing.
01:14:43
So they dig further into the emails and online shit. And they find a YouTube video made under Carrie's name.
01:14:50
And in it, the video shows, the video is outside Dave's apartment showing his house and like stalkery shit from Carrie's YouTube account.
01:15:00
But then they're like, let's dig deeper. And they see that the IP address goes to none other than Liz.
01:15:07
Yeah. Oh, my God. Shocking. Okay. So. I felt great, though, because I was putting it together and I'm like, it's fucking Liz.
01:15:15
Liz went to the lake and shot herself in the leg, goddammit. That's right. So police bring Liz back and they pretend that they have found Carrie's remains.
01:15:27
And they say, we think it's Amy, the other ex. You need to send, like, try to get her to tell you shit.
01:15:35
So Liz is like, great, I'm on it. I'm a detective and shit. so then they Liz is like look I got all these emails
01:15:44
from Amy graphically detailing how she killed Carrie and would do it again to Liz if she didn't
01:15:50
stay away from Dave so Liz who's fucking crazy obviously now we can say that so the emails say
01:16:01
that are supposedly from Amy say quote I attacked her with a knife I stabbed her three to four times
01:16:06
in the chest and stomach area I took her out and burned her. I stuffed her body in a garbage bag. And she identifies Carrie's yin-yang
01:16:14
symbol tattoo on her thigh and says, like saying, I know she has this tattoo. This is how I know.
01:16:21
And now you know I'm not lying about offing. I really did kill Carrie and I'll do it. And I did
01:16:26
it in her own car. This is what the email supposedly from Amy is. So police are like,
01:16:32
okay. And they check Carrie's car again. They had found it and hadn't found anything weird.
01:16:37
and this time they remove the cover from the passenger seat and find a large spot of blood in the middle of the seat cushion
01:16:44
and tests show that the blood belongs to Carrie Farver. And they also had found a pack of mint gum way back when they looked at it
01:16:50
and the only fingerprints from the entire car were on that pack of mints and they had run them, they hadn't matched anything,
01:16:57
they run the fingerprints to Liz Goyer and obviously it's her fingerprints. Okay. And then the emails that are allegedly from Amy are traced back to Liz's computer.
01:17:07
And of course, they determined both the house fire and the shooting was self-inflicted.
01:17:13
She loves him so much. She burned her own house down. She burned her own fucking house down, killed her own fucking pets.
01:17:24
Killed her own two snakes. It's a disgrace. Am I right, sir? It's a disgrace. Um, so even though they don't have a body, of course, and they know how hard these cases are to try when there's no body, police are afraid for now Amy's life and Amy's children lives because Liz was already stalking Amy now.
01:17:49
So they arrest Liz, who's now 41, and charge her with first degree murder of Carrie Farver.
01:17:54
So here here Liz Oh Liz So she she goes by Shana Shana too but it Liz Oh Don worry about it Okay Now who cut Shauna Liz hair
01:18:07
And who shaves her eyebrows? Lights the house on fire. Yeah. Do you think she went right before they took her mugshot?
01:18:22
She's like, hold on. Oh, yeah. Is it one of those? Yeah. Liz, what are you doing?
01:18:29
How do you write 12,000 emails? Dude. I can't return one. And I'm pretty sure I found her Pinterest page in my searches as well, which is so fucking weird.
01:18:40
From jail? No, I think it's like an old one that's just still there. Oh, and it's just pictures of emails.
01:18:46
All just like 12,000 pictures of emails. It's very weird. So, okay. they arrest her and charge her with first degree murder of Carrie Farber.
01:18:59
And in the email, she'd been alleging that Dave was in on it the whole time and knew everything.
01:19:05
But it turns out he didn't. And when he finds out, he's like, oh, shit, I should have.
01:19:09
He, like, freaks the fuck out, obviously. And he hands over. He's like, I have this old tablet computer that she left at my house.
01:19:19
Like, take this and see if there's anything on it. And they find a memory card in it that, of course, is everything is deleted.
01:19:24
but you can't delete everything. Or anything. Or really anything. And they find a series of photos on Liz's memory card
01:19:33
of a decomposing foot and thigh that had been dismembered. No. Yeah. She took pictures.
01:19:41
Yeah. So they check with Carrie's mom and be like, what tattoos did Carrie have?
01:19:46
And the tattoos match what's on the photos of the dismembered leg and foot. I know, it's really sad.
01:19:51
and one of the tattoos was a Chinese symbol meaning mother. I know. So Liz goes to trial in May of 2017.
01:20:01
She's like, I don't want a jury. I just want the judge, dude. And the defense...
01:20:06
Good call. Good call, Liz. One good decision. Well, the defense argues that this case is circumstantial.
01:20:12
There's not enough physical evidence linking Liz to the crime. And the prosecution's like, okay, well, here's more than 40 pieces of evidence
01:20:18
that show that Liz made more than a dozen email accounts to send false information for over three years
01:20:25
and all this other fucking crazy evidence. How do you keep the passwords? I can't...
01:20:31
The passwords alone. Yeah. How do you... How do you... Yeah. How do you do anything?
01:20:39
Two snakes, 35. You're just going and going. Is that your password? Yeah, my password's two snakes, 35.
01:20:51
Now I have to change it. Three snakes. The prosecutors, of course, tell the judge that the emails are evidence of premeditation
01:21:04
and the graphic details are proof of a confession, obviously. So District County Judge Timothy Burns finds Liz guilty of first-degree murder,
01:21:13
which in Nebraska is an automatic life sentence without the possibility of parole.
01:21:17
Good job. Good job, guys. Isn't it funny? It's taken us so long to get here, and this is the state where we like the laws the most.
01:21:32
We're staying. Only shows here now. Wow, you wouldn't. And so, just this past November of 2018, the Nebraska Supreme Court rejects Liz's appeal.
01:21:47
due to the overwhelming circumstantial evidence in one of the strangest romantically obsessed murders the state has ever seen.
01:21:55
Agreed. Yeah. Carrie's family are just relieved to have proof that the woman Liz tried to make Carrie seem for three fucking years
01:22:04
isn't the woman that she was. They tried to make her look crazy, that someone who had abandoned her son and her family and like a stalker,
01:22:11
and they're relieved to finally know what happened to Carrie. and Carrie's son, Max, is following in his mother's footsteps
01:22:19
and pursuing a degree in computer engineering. Nice. I know. And that is the murder of Carrie.
01:22:29
Oh, my God. All right. Okay. Cool. Hometowns have been fucking great this weekend.
01:22:39
You guys, unbelievable. So good. Such good stories. Oh, but I think there's someone we met.
01:22:45
That probably has a story that we shouldn't invite up. Do you remember her name?
01:22:49
Yes, her name is Cindy, and she said she was in row G. Cindy, there she is. Hi. Come this way.
01:22:57
And then cross over to Vince. And you have to go to Vince. Listen, if you run into us in the elevator at our hotel, and we like your blouse.
01:23:07
You can bring the house lights down now. Oh, look. Hi. Hi, guys. Hi, you guys. In the middle, too.
01:23:13
Look at the rich people. Wow the royal family's here. Holy shit. Hi Cindy. Hi Cindy.
01:23:29
Hi. You too. Cindy rode down the elevator with me and didn't say a word until he got off and said I'm coming tonight by the way.
01:23:39
I was like oh. I felt like a terrible stalker. I was awful. But you also, right as we were walking out the door, we were like, nice to meet you.
01:23:48
And then she goes, I have a story for you. Just like that. Yeah. So what's your story, Cindy?
01:23:54
Wait first where are you from I live in Lincoln Nebraska Well come here Yeah let center up I know a lot about Lincoln Nebraska and the booster ethos of the 19th century
01:24:08
I'll tell you about it later. Okay. Okay. So I have to give a little back story.
01:24:13
I was invited to speak at the Nebraska Penitentiary to their Toastmasters group.
01:24:19
What? Do you want to tell us what you do for a living or is it not appropriate? Well, at that point, I worked at the University of Nebraska, and I was on their speakers bureau.
01:24:29
And I was asked to come speak to them about employment opportunities. And I go to the penitentiary, and it's in the late 90s.
01:24:40
And they start through the introduction. Well, I should back up. First, the thing I know when you go to the state penitentiary is that they search you.
01:24:48
And I was wearing hush puppies. And if you ever have owned hush puppies, they have shanks in hush puppies.
01:24:54
What? So I had, yeah, so there's metal shanks in the shoes. We can't let this get out.
01:25:02
So when that happened, I had to remove my shoes and then get a much more personal search than I intended.
01:25:09
Oh, no. Hush puppies. Yeah, so it wasn't good. Did they, like, suspect you a little bit?
01:25:19
Well, I don't know what they thought I was doing. Okay. Protocol. So needless to say, then I go into this meeting room.
01:25:26
Can I ask one more question? Yeah. Did you have to be like in your underwear? No, it wasn't quite that bad.
01:25:32
Okay, good. But there was a female room. Okay. I was searched by a female, fortunately.
01:25:39
Okay, good. It was still too much touching. Agreed. Okay, sorry to interrupt. Yeah.
01:25:47
So I go in and they start doing introductions. and all of a sudden I'm looking around the room
01:25:53
and I see this dude and I realize, I'm like, oh shit, I know who this guy is. And so I have to get my notes out
01:26:02
because you use your notes. So I... They don't throw it on us. We're only letting you do this because of the search.
01:26:11
Are you bringing up Murderpedia? She's bringing up Murderpedia. No, I'm on the DCS inmate search.
01:26:17
Oh, okay. Okay. And your password's two snakes. Yeah. So if anybody, when I went to the university, there was a killing in 1993 in Chicago of a woman that was from Gothenburg, Nebraska.
01:26:35
Her last name was Nordbrook. And she was married to her high school sweetheart named Scott Berkey.
01:26:44
And what happened in that case is she was found bludgeoned about two blocks from where their apartment was in town.
01:26:51
And they were never able to figure out who the suspect was. But the family was convinced that the husband had actually done the crime.
01:27:00
And so consequently, they were not able to prove it. But what they did do is the family sued so that he could not collect any of the proceeds from her estate.
01:27:10
And at one point, that would have been about $2 million. Wow. And then what was really bizarre was about four years later, there was a stream.
01:27:20
There was four crimes that he committed, and he went and did four robberies in Omaha, like bam, bam, bam,
01:27:27
and ended up in the Nebraska State Penitentiary. So that's how I got to meet him, was in the state pen.
01:27:32
So he did these four crazy robberies, and all of this happened, and they still were never able to convict him of the crime.
01:27:39
But what did happen was he did five years within the Nebraska State Penitentiary.
01:27:46
He gets out. He moves to, he marries another woman and then was moved out to California.
01:27:56
Uh-uh. He was in, I think it's Rockland, California. No idea. I think it's up by Sacramento.
01:28:05
It's 30 miles from Sacramento. Okay. He was working at a Starbucks. I know that.
01:28:10
Yeah. That adds up real good. But he moved out there, and he had attempted suicide a couple times.
01:28:19
He was dealing with depression issues, and all of that happened. And in 2003, they found him hanging from a tree without a suicide note.
01:28:26
Wow. And they were never able to finally figure out that the murder had happened.
01:28:31
But I think there's a lot of people that feel like justice was done. Wow. It was all done.
01:28:37
So it was pretty wild. You met him and taught him stuff? Yeah, well, I would say that I got a little nervous,
01:28:47
and so my critique of my speech at the penitentiary, they said she seemed a little nervous.
01:28:54
I don't know why. I feel like if you weren't, you'd be a sociopath if you were just like,
01:28:59
here's my head. Yeah, really. Amazing. Thank you. Cindy, everybody. Thank you so much.
01:29:09
You're welcome. Thank you. Thank you, Cindy. Awesome, yeah, good events. Oh, my God.
01:29:17
Toastmasters at the State Pen. And no thanks. You can leave that to Johnny Cash.
01:29:26
Thanks, Omaha, for having us. Wow. We thought for a little while we weren't going to be able to do this show.
01:29:37
We thought for a little while that this show might not happen, and the idea that everybody
01:29:42
came is quite a humongous compliment, and we can't really thank you enough for...
01:29:50
The way you guys show up the way you guys participate with this podcast is mind to us Like we just can believe it Every time we meet one of you guys and you like
01:30:05
I feel like I know you or you're my best friend. And it's like, well, you fucking do know us.
01:30:09
And we are. And I love, yeah, this community you guys have. And it's so touching because I wish I had that when I was younger.
01:30:18
And now I do. And it feels so good. And I'm so glad you guys have that as well. And also we talk to people and they're always like, I actually came by myself tonight, which is an unbelievable thing that a bunch of you now, people that have anxiety disorders, people who don't like other people, people who prefer to stay home and watch the ID channel are coming out to a major event and hanging out because they know they're with their people.
01:30:46
And it's the best. Thanks for letting us be the weird spokespeople for that. We want you to stay saved and do God's missions.
01:30:59
Always. But more than that, we want you to stay sexy. And don't get sexy! Thank you, Omaha!
01:31:09
Hi, everyone. Hello and welcome to a very special segment we have right now. Very excited.
01:31:16
we're with Trish Wood she's the creator and director of the five-part docuseries that's
01:31:22
out now on Amazon Prime Video called Ted Bundy Falling for a Killer which we are so excited like
01:31:28
I got chills watching the trailer the inspiration for me was OJ Made in America which was life
01:31:34
changing amazing amazing from a storytelling perspective and Ezra took the idea of looking
01:31:40
out a true crime story through the culture, meaning through race in America. So that's what
01:31:47
gave us the idea to do the Bundy story through the lens of gender. Right. And I had never even considered the time and place of the women's movement during this
01:31:56
period, that women were finally getting, you know, some authority, and how Ted Bundy just,
01:32:03
you know, scared that from everyone. It hadn't even crossed my mind. Well, it was really interesting to go back because I lived through that.
01:32:11
The idea that this happened at a time when women were finally gaining traction, it really is told to comment on what the women experienced.
01:32:21
So it's like, yeah, we can do this stuff. Yeah, it's really happening. And then whammo, not so fast.
01:32:28
So that's the one thing that can make us reconsider our freedom and push us back.
01:32:34
And so that was sort of the idea behind really showing what was happening in that moment.
01:32:39
So it made it worse. This interview that you got with Liz is pretty huge. I think a lot of us who have been following the case since we were very young have always wanted to hear from her and what she went through.
01:32:52
Did you meet her before and have to talk her into it? Or how did you get this? So, you know, I met her and I made my case.
01:33:01
we bonded over the recovery both single mothers to most of our adult lives and so there's a lot
01:33:09
of trust around that sort of stuff but she just sort of thought about it for a while and
01:33:14
we had a few conversations and then she was in and i think her reason for wanting to do it
01:33:21
i think there was a confluence of reasons she um really liked our take that it was through the
01:33:28
lens of gender. She wanted to work with a female director. And I think as many of the women in the
01:33:36
series understand that time marches on for us all, and the eyewitnesses to this case are not going to
01:33:41
be around forever, right? I think she wanted to be part of a film that enabled other women's stories.
01:33:47
And having said all of that, she didn't jump in with both feet. She was always very nervous
01:33:52
about it. But eventually she came around. We did like seven or eight interviews with her,
01:33:58
long ones. And she was great. She was a great interview and super honest. And I could see her
01:34:05
working things through she hadn't thought about for years. That was the bravest thing to me,
01:34:09
not exposing who she was, because she was kind of living sort of anonymously. It was actually
01:34:16
facing on camera some pretty dark stuff. And she did that really boldly. So in talking with these women, was there anything that surprised you in getting that take?
01:34:29
For me, the roommates of Linda Healy, there are many things, but they moved back into that house.
01:34:35
Did they really? Yeah. Wow. I know. I know. Without even knowing who it was, it could have been a neighbor.
01:34:43
They just took a stand. Yeah. They took a stand, which I thought I wouldn't have.
01:34:47
It's brave. Yeah, I thought it was really cool. Amazing. This has been so great to talk to you.
01:34:52
It's really an honor to have you. Thanks. Ted Bundy falling for a killer on Amazon.
01:34:57
We're so excited. Why is it always chaos when we link up? Because nobody plans anything, bro.
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