00:00:00
This is exactly right. Bro, from the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill?
00:00:10
Because this is our life. Backstage, on the road, it's loud, messy, real. And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.
00:00:19
Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos. Not just test tracks, real life scenes. Late nights, road trips, all of it.
00:00:26
That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D. Power.
00:00:33
Yeah, you can tell. 2026 Nissan Rogue built for what really happens. For J.D. Power 2025 U.S. Initial Quality Study Award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards.
00:00:44
Awards based on 2025 model year, newer models may be shown. Missatisfying breads and pastas and want to add protein without going overboard on calories?
00:00:53
stacked sandwiches, fully loaded bagels, noodles built for serious sauce. Hero Bread delivers up to 19 grams of protein.
00:01:01
Think bagels and elbow noodles with nearly twice the protein of national bestsellers,
00:01:05
but less than half the calories. Plus, you can get up to 32 grams of fiber per serving,
00:01:09
a bonus when you're trying to stay full and fueled. So whether you're grilling burgers, building a serious sandwich, or digging into pasta,
00:01:16
you're getting real flavor with a smarter protein-to-calorie balance. Hero makes loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels, and noodles with 5 to 19 grams of protein per serving that all go the distance.
00:01:27
Shop now at Hero.co. Use code IHART for 10% off. That's H-E-R-O dot C-O. All figures per serving.
00:01:34
See nutrition info on Hero.co. 39% and 61% fewer calories than regular plain bagels and noodles, respectively.
00:01:40
Calorie content has been reduced from 270 to 130 and 200 to 80 calories per serving for plain bagels and noodles, respectively.
00:01:46
Data accurate as of 220-26. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
00:01:56
It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
00:02:03
I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three month plan equivalent to $15 per month required.
00:02:12
Intro rate first three months only, then full price plan options available. Taxes and fees extra.
00:02:16
Default terms at mintmobile.com. My favorite murder Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:02:37
The big one. The normal sized one. The long one. The long one. But. What? Not long enough?
00:02:45
Not long enough for everyone else's taste. Yeah. No, I was going to say, well, the long one, but the single story just for this week.
00:02:55
Right. Just to finish out the circle. Yeah. Everyone, you're welcome for giving you something to fight about this week.
00:03:03
Enjoy your passions. We understand you can't go outside anymore and feel them. So we'll give you reasons to be deeply upset.
00:03:11
Listen, next week we'll come back with a nice three hour and 45 minute episode. We're both going to tell each other.
00:03:18
extensive stories. I'm going to tell this story of the persecution and crucifixion of Christ.
00:03:24
I'm going to tell the story of this first seven days of existence in this planet.
00:03:30
It's like a father-son episode. Oh, that's sweet. So yeah, we're going to... Everyone hated the idea that one of us
00:03:38
does one story one week and the next. And it's understandable. You want to hear two stories. That's kind of
00:03:44
what we do. Can I tell you what my sister Laura said? Yes. Laura's got the final say on all of this.
00:03:51
First of all, she doesn't listen. She's not a fan. So she's coming objectively to this.
00:03:57
So no one can say, of course, your sister, whatever. My sister comes and goes, really?
00:04:03
At a time like this, you're going to change the whole setup? I was like, we just weren't talking about it.
00:04:08
We're tired. It's summertime. Whatever. And she's like, no, no, no. No, this is a time people need structure.
00:04:13
They need things to be exactly the same. You go to McDonald's. You want it to taste like McDonald's.
00:04:18
Don't fuck around with people at a time like this. I was like, shit, okay. Of course, I think only of myself, as we all do.
00:04:26
I think only of myself. So we all only think of yourself. Yeah. Every other week, homework sounds great.
00:04:32
When one of us needs a mental health week and hasn't gotten their story finished, and the other person has a nice, thick story that they can tell, you know, then we'll do one a week.
00:04:44
We'll be back to normal next week. Yeah. Don't worry. But also, you know, we'll go back to normal next week.
00:04:50
This week, when we're not back to normal, let's practice flexibility. Let's practice change, liminal states where things aren't as we want them to be.
00:05:02
And practice our resilience within those moments. And right now, let's take a deep breath in.
00:05:09
And let it out. Sorry. Shit. I ruined it. I was trying to lead people in three deep breaths.
00:05:18
Georgia couldn't have it. I ruined it. And it was like the worst burp. It wasn't even a good one.
00:05:23
It was short and forced. You're lucky you didn't throw up. You're lucky I didn't throw up.
00:05:28
You're the lucky one. Can we really before anything talk about this most recent episode of Perry Mason?
00:05:36
I knew. And there's going to be spoilers. Truly, if you haven't seen it, we will not hear it from you after the fact.
00:05:42
This is going to be a spoiler chunk. get away if you don't like it 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
00:05:49
alright this fucking show is so good dude I knew from the tone of your voice that you were about to start talking about Perry Mason did you really Yes because it was like this Yeah it was a how fucking how hot and like messy and dreamy
00:06:07
What's his? How do you say his name? Matthew Reese. Welshie Welshman. Yeah, Matthew Reese sounds right.
00:06:13
Is it Matthew? Do you know that he has a fucking wine tour show? I was. Listen, I was just casually reading, looking him up on Google.
00:06:22
Listen, no big. I just Google searched him. to see. Come up on my... Wait, I just wiki-feated that guy just to see what was going on.
00:06:29
He has a show, this Welsh man and a wife, as this is telling me right now. He has a show called The Wine Show, where he and his actor friend, Matthew Goode, with
00:06:41
an E. Sure. He's like a, I think... Beautiful brunette man. Yeah, yeah. He's... Okay.
00:06:49
They all went to the Royal Shakespeare Academy together, I bet. I'm sure. They're all that style.
00:06:53
They just pre-pandemic travel like Italy drinking wine together and talking about wine and wine varietals and like slowly getting drunk on wine and laughing about it.
00:07:03
And he has this fucking beard. Oh, shit. This like big Vince level quarantine beard.
00:07:09
See, that's the thing about that guy. And I'll talk about him as Perry Mason because I don't know him any other way.
00:07:17
That's really respectful of you. I also want to talk about being in love with the character
00:07:24
Perry Mason I want to objectify the actor that's my goal I want to objectify the Merlot he's drinking
00:07:31
but that spirit of a man which is you're fighting your demons overtly you've got a very nicely
00:07:40
weathered leather jacket you've got sparkle in your eyes even when fucked up shit is happening
00:07:45
but your eyes are also slightly dead because you've been around the block a time or two.
00:07:49
You've seen too much. Everything about it and the way he like when he fights with John Lithgow
00:07:54
and he gets that kind of like sparkle. It's just dynamic and thrilling. You're screwing this
00:08:01
like really dark, interesting woman who like has her own secrets, but you're like clearly in love with her a little bit.
00:08:07
Yes. And she's like, get out of here and fuck you. It's not romantic, but it's very bonded
00:08:13
and it's hot as hell. Love it. I mean, it's okay. So this most, this spoiler, I want to state just because it made me laugh so hard when
00:08:23
it actually happened. Do you know what part of the show I'm going to say? It's the part where the little girl walks up to give sister her gift.
00:08:32
This isn't a like a real big plot spoiler. So don't worry if you know. Yeah, no.
00:08:37
If you're if you're powering through the spoiler, but it turned the gift turns out to be a humongous
00:08:41
snake. Right. And it's so shocking. And the little girl is so good. And it's played so perfectly that you're as shocked as the sister is.
00:08:50
I can't remember her character's name. Tatiana Masley, I believe, the actress's name is from Orphan Black.
00:08:57
And she's okay. Cool. But yeah. But that moment. So my friend Carrie O'Donnell, the hilarious Carrie O'Donnell from Sex Unique podcast.
00:09:06
He texted me and said, when the little girl tries to assassinate her with a serpent,
00:09:11
I knew this show was it. And I wrote back, oh, my God, that part was, all caps, who I am.
00:09:21
Karen is a little girl carrying a perfectly wrapped, what you think is a pastry box, too, because that's the fucking mean thing about it.
00:09:28
If she's just like, these are going to be some incredible 1930s pastries. They keep saying the word sweets.
00:09:34
And I was like, oh, I can't wait to watch her bite into whatever the fuck this is going to be.
00:09:37
I was thinking Danish, like straight, hardcore Danish. I was thinking of like, you know, princess cakes that have the green stuff on it, like the perfect fondant.
00:09:48
It's also called they have it at Victor. But it's like our family, actually our family like cake.
00:09:53
It's what you fucking get and you fucking like on our birthdays at El Coyote. But you have to have what you have.
00:09:58
Yeah. Yes. The it's the stuff made of almonds. Yeah. What's it called? Yes. Everyone's yelling.
00:10:06
Someone tweeted a thing that said The most you'll ever understand What a ghost feels like
00:10:13
Is when you're listening to a podcast And the hosts are trying to remember a word
00:10:17
For something that you know I feel bad that I can't give credit to it It's just been going around
00:10:22
I think my sister sent me that meme It's so true Because right now everyone at home is yelling
00:10:28
Almondine Marzipan Stephen's a ghost Stephen's a ghost Steven's a ghost Boo, boo, boo
00:10:39
So that's what I was picturing A little tiny princess cake Or something that was kind of old-fashioned looking
00:10:46
And she opens it up and it's the biggest snake It's the big scary snake Vince can't do snakes
00:10:53
And he lost his fucking mind It was so good and tricky And to me that's like It's how this show is so smart
00:11:01
It's doing incredibly creepy things Realistically so you don't go you never walk away going oh that was a little i mean there's things that are super
00:11:10
graphic but it's for the it's for the plot it's got such a good creepy feeling of like everything's
00:11:18
wrong in the world yes and you have to look beautiful because it's 1930 something there's
00:11:24
also that brilliant scene with the black cop who actually saw the body yes and when those other
00:11:31
detectives come to talk to him and how incredibly oppressively but unspoken racist they are and like
00:11:40
how they're controlling him with barely lifting a finger like they're like speaking to him in a
00:11:47
like pot like a respectful positive way that intones this creepy fucked up negative it's like
00:11:52
you don even have to say anything negative it just it just in their fucking it the vibe it It so accurate to how that stuff actually works it so good anyway bravo good job everybody
00:12:06
I bet the people who pitched were going to do a gritty reboot of Perry Mason I bet you
00:12:12
they had a lot of doors slamming their faces so the idea that now they're the maybe queen and king who knows
00:12:20
of HBO I love it I'm telling you Sunday nights Perry Mason and I'll Be Gone in the Dark.
00:12:26
It's like, oh, it's like I'm excited in quarantine. How do you fucking even do that? It's
00:12:32
crucial. It's crucial. And same thing with tonight, because tonight is Tuesday. It's the
00:12:38
final episode of this season two of Dirty John. Oh! I'm not watching. It's the big finale. Is it good?
00:12:46
I love it. The new Dirty John. Yep. Starring Amanda Peet. Amanda Peet plays Betty Broderick.
00:12:52
It's a classic story of a woman who supports her husband through medical and law school.
00:12:59
Come on. He starts his own firm. You owe her everything. Gets super successful, starts cheating on her, won't admit it for a really long time,
00:13:08
and basically drives her insane. There's so many other elements. I mean, that's the worst part, like the gaslighting.
00:13:15
Yes. And the like, not being allowed to know your own life and to have any, what's the word?
00:13:23
Ownership? No. agency over your own decisions in life because someone is lying to you someone close to you is
00:13:30
like that is awful it's it's an exploitation of your connection yeah where they're saying
00:13:36
oh why would you you know he basically denied it for so long to her where he's like you're really
00:13:44
losing it you're da da da you're gonna ruin this relationship yeah he would take it and like fold
00:13:50
it back into what everything that was wrong with her so by the time he admitted it by the time they
00:13:54
broke up she had snapped and it is again it's just it's so it was such a common thing in the 80s
00:14:02
because this takes place like throughout the 80s and it's so familiar to me because there was this
00:14:07
time in like the early 80s where everyone's parents all at once we're not saying murder's okay
00:14:13
And obviously, it's not. And especially the new girlfriend, you know, it's not her relationship that was ruined.
00:14:23
It's not. She has nothing to do with it. And she's not responsible for this dude.
00:14:26
His decisions. No. No. But I will say this, too. The children, the child actors in this show are exceptionally good actors.
00:14:37
There's one child that's had to do two monologues. every time I watch it I go holy fucking shit how is this little kid he's he's like literally going
00:14:46
but mom he's trying to to um reason with this woman who's basically been driven insane or like
00:14:54
gone insane and obsessively won't leave it alone and he's trying to as like a nine-year-old
00:15:00
this kid is such a good actor I was just like well that's your that's our next Leo DiCaprio right
00:15:05
Yeah. So good. I'm going to watch once we're done with what are we watching right now?
00:15:10
We're OK. We're almost done with Veep like all the way through. Oh, wow. Yeah. I don't know what I'm going to do after.
00:15:15
We watched Rambo 2 on Sunday as our Sunday matinee. Sorry, what in that one? Does he go back to the same town?
00:15:25
To the prisoner to get the POWs out. Oh, that's the one that takes place where he comes up out of the river and it's at one point electrocuted on like a
00:15:34
a mattress frame. I might have been doing my laundry at that part because I walked to Vince
00:15:39
watched Rambo too, and I snuck in and out of it. Little America is fucking excellent. And like the
00:15:47
British sketch show? No, it's on Apple Plus. And it's these little episode episodic shows that you
00:15:54
don't have to watch them in order anything of like immigrants to America and their little,
00:15:58
true stories of what they went through and how they came to America and thrived and lived
00:16:05
and created their own lives. It's a beautiful show. It's so uplifting. Little America on Apple Plus?
00:16:10
Yeah, definitely. I mean, this is like Emmy shit. Is that for TV or is that Oscar? Yes, it is.
00:16:17
Great. It's great. I highly recommend it. They're going to get a Webby for sure.
00:16:22
They're going to get a British podcasting award. Absolutely. Absolutely. And then books, podcasts, or what else are you doing?
00:16:31
Well, oh, I, okay, here's a weird run. Someone, I believe his name is Drew McGarry, and he's on Twitter, and he told a story. He was like, are you bored? I'm bored. I'm going to tell you the story of the weirdest thing that's happened to me.
00:16:46
And he did a tweet thread. It's a very strange story of him out hiking by himself one day, and he's talking on the phone.
00:16:57
He's walking, and he calls his mom. And then there's a woman. Suddenly, he gets bumped into from behind.
00:17:06
He goes on an empty trail where no one is around, and he didn't hear her coming.
00:17:12
And all of a sudden, a woman bumps into him from behind. And he turns around. It's a small woman who is blonde.
00:17:18
I'm doing all this from memory. And essentially, then all of a sudden he wakes up on the trail and it's four hours later and he doesn't have any socks on.
00:17:29
Okay, wait. Under his boot. This is a true story of a thing that happened to a guy named – what's his name?
00:17:35
I believe his name is Drew McGarry. And it's like basically him saying this is the weirdest thing that's ever happened.
00:17:39
Okay, so she hits him with a dart, a sleeping dart or something, right? No, no. bumps into him.
00:17:46
We don't know. And then after that, he doesn't know. And he was able to do the time.
00:17:52
He ended up getting home checking his body There nothing wrong with me I don have any wounds or anything like that But his socks are gone I going to go Listen I a doctor Okay I a trail doctor And so I going to go with dehydration
00:18:07
Hey, okay. And he hallucinated her? He hallucinated her. He was so dehydrated that morning.
00:18:12
He didn't put socks on at all. Okay. And so maybe the woman existed and did bump him.
00:18:19
And then maybe he sat down to like take a rest. But he was dehydrated. So he passed out.
00:18:24
Okay. Right. Or alien. Or she's a small Bigfoot. Shave down. Small Bigfoot. Coming up to CBS this Friday.
00:18:37
The smallest Bigfoot in the forest. Well, but here's so I ended up reading the thread because I was like, this story is amazing.
00:18:44
And it's what it's just my cup of tea. And then I knew other people would tell either tell their stories or do some kind of link.
00:18:51
And somebody named Jose Gomez said, if you if you're into this, I just found this podcast.
00:18:59
And it's about stories that are like stories that are hard to explain, basically, is how he is how Jose Gomez explained it.
00:19:08
Well, it turns out it's front of the podcast, Payne Lindsay's podcast, Radio Rental.
00:19:14
It's hosted by Rainn Wilson playing a character. I think his name is Vincent Carnation
00:19:21
It made me laugh so hard This character that he plays is insane and goofy And it's as if it's set in a VHS video rental store
00:19:31
Great, I love that spot to begin with A little kid just barfed earlier in the day
00:19:36
And they put cat litter on it So you've got that going on in one corner And then of course Mrs. Doubtfire is playing on the TV
00:19:44
Over the cash register video stores remember but it basically is like he sets it up and it very goofy funny and then
00:19:54
they play the video and it's the person telling their hard to explain story firsthand themselves
00:19:59
which is my favorite and it's real that part's real and they're real and there's so there's 11
00:20:04
episodes i think there's two stories per episode i listened to it all in like three hours it was
00:20:10
so good and these stories some of them are like oh and some of them are like holy shit there's one girl that
00:20:19
tells so beautifully tells and it's later on I think it's episode 8 or 9 she talks about going
00:20:25
to camp with a guy that everyone loved this guy everyone loved this guy and near the end of camp they were all going to go
00:20:31
out to everyone was going to go out I'm just going to spoiler alert I know they were all going to go out
00:20:37
this is a recap show of Payne Lindsay's podcast Yes. By the way, I don't know if you guys know this.
00:20:41
He's yeah, we are just going to talk through pretty much all the podcasts. Any and all pain Lindsay podcast.
00:20:47
He's done a lot of work. This is going to be the summer season. So so essentially they had to sign because they were a counselor.
00:20:54
So they had to sign out for the day and say where they were going to go. It's like, here's my name and I'm going this place.
00:21:00
Whatever. So everyone knew where everyone was going and when they'd come back. Yeah.
00:21:03
And this guy was like, hey, let me give you a ride to her. and she said in her gut she felt it there was something weird in his eyes the energy was wrong
00:21:12
she knew she was trying to walk around getting a ride from someone else and it was almost like that
00:21:17
was the last choice and she like tried because she was gonna get in her friends whatever so she was
00:21:23
like you know what i'm actually gonna hang back and he's like no it's totally fine i'll give you
00:21:26
a ride i'll go wherever you want to go and he was really trying to convince her and fine and then
00:21:33
finally he got really mad and so she stepped back and started making a bunch she was like i don't
00:21:37
want to go with you and like made a scene so other people came over and like guys basically got him
00:21:43
away from her and she went back up and was like i'm staying here for the day and then everyone
00:21:47
left yeah she went back up and checked the logbook her name had been erased from the logbook entirely
00:21:53
and she was like there's no doubt in my mind that he wanted to kill me he was going to do something
00:22:00
to me and that and she basically gives its beautiful little speech that's essentially
00:22:06
you know what we've all been saying to each other for so long but essentially you don't owe anybody
00:22:12
anything if somebody wants to give you a ride because they're being nice you don't have to be
00:22:16
nice back to them making a scene is okay like you can be a fucking everyone thinks you're crazy and
00:22:22
you make a scene because you don't feel comfortable situation it doesn't matter what they think about
00:22:25
you. Yes. You can be not, not in the least not when you, yeah, when you're, uh, and, and apparently
00:22:33
she grabbed her friend and said, no matter what happens, do not get in the car with him. Cause he
00:22:38
had a car that could only be him and one other person. So she was then convinced he was going to
00:22:42
try to get a different girl into the car. What's the podcast called? We're all going to listen to
00:22:46
it's called radio rental. And that's just one of the many unbelievably creepy, amazing,
00:22:53
horrifying stories. I love it. I'm listening to that. I've been wanting to text you,
00:22:58
but I keep forgetting. And I want to tell you on the podcast, too. There's this new podcast
00:23:01
that I'm listening to called Missing in Alaska. Have you seen it or heard of it?
00:23:05
It reminds me so much of the Oregon one. What was the Oregon one we loved? Murder in Oregon. Murder. You know what? It might be the same people.
00:23:14
Oh, I just put that together. That would make sense. Yeah. Because you know why? It's about in the 1970s, these two congressmen were on a plane out of Alaska or like town to town in Alaska.
00:23:28
And the plane disappeared. No one ever fucking found it. And the whole podcast is about the conspiracies of like, does it go all the way to the top?
00:23:37
Because one of the widows of one of those congressmen ended up marrying this dude who was like in the mob.
00:23:42
And like everyone knew he was in the mob. And they're like all these crazy mob ties.
00:23:45
and like maybe there was a briefcase with a bomb in it and it's just like it goes all the way to the laptop
00:23:51
but in Alaska in the 70s which is the creepiest possible place to be it's really good
00:23:57
have you listened to the entire series? Okay. Awesome. I'm going to start that immediately.
00:24:03
That's great. I need a good morning. All my morning walk around podcasts, kind of. I've used them all up.
00:24:11
This is made for you. Okay. Beautiful. Missing in Alaska. Listen to it with me, everybody. This will be the new book club.
00:24:20
I always talk about the podcast Family Secrets because I just love it so much. It just speaks to me. There's an episode I listened to yesterday.
00:24:28
Oh, I'm crying now, by the way. It's kind of my new thing. I'm real dehydrated. I can't buy my socks.
00:24:36
It's a mess. It comes up real randomly, huh? Like sometimes you do not see it coming.
00:24:41
Yeah. You ever get those ones? No, I always can tell. I'm like, I think when I go, this is a time when normal people would cry.
00:24:48
And then I'm like, oh, fuck. Hey, I'm normal people. I'm normal. So there's an episode back from April called Bug Dust of the podcast Family Secrets That Made Me Cry.
00:24:59
That is so beautiful. And I don't know, it like hit a spot in me for sure. Love it.
00:25:08
Love that. Go to our merch page, myfavoritemurder.com. Wait, wait. What? Have we talked about Unsolved Mysteries enough or yet?
00:25:16
No, we haven't. Okay. Let's clear the decks because lots of people have been like, we need to hear.
00:25:21
and I am blown away at how amazing like so look we do we've done ads for this uh we do ads for
00:25:31
this yeah this is not an ad it's not an ad but it's so so beautifully I mean like look the original
00:25:38
was great and and it was totally reflective of the time and like a guy in a trench coat coming
00:25:44
out of the fog being like mysteries are right and there were like ghosts bread there was like
00:25:48
ghost loaves of bread and like alien. It was like a lot of that. And I was a little worried that this
00:25:53
would be almost like just another true crime show, you know, like, I think the key to this one, too,
00:25:59
is it's the people telling their own story. You get the people, you get the family, you get the
00:26:04
wife of the missing man, you get the reporter that was there first, like that is the way to do it.
00:26:10
It's those. That's the most compelling way to do it. You don't need a talking head.
00:26:14
It's a really well done. It's so good. It's a well done true crime show. It's good.
00:26:18
Yeah. The fucking French story. That's so much like the John List story. I haven't.
00:26:24
I only have watched the first episode and then I honestly couldn't watch another one.
00:26:28
It's so creepy. I was going to be like moving on, but I was like, what in the fuck happened there?
00:26:33
It's so creepy. It's crazy. Well, people on Reddit are talking about how similar that it is to the plot of the game,
00:26:40
the movie, The Game. Yep. Right. So everyone go watch the game from the 90s, I think.
00:26:46
Well, is that just because he falls through a roof? No, he because the guy Ray, the guy was a screenwriter.
00:26:52
Oh, right. And then really in the movies, the whole movie was that he felt like he was being chased in this simulated world that ends with him falling off a roof.
00:27:04
So when he gets a call and runs out of the house, I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, no, I see that.
00:27:09
I see it. But I guess my thing is the fact that he's a writer makes all of those things really difficult because truly, if you saw the crazy shit, well, I mean, really, the stuff you write down and the stuff like I don't explain to myself what my documents are.
00:27:29
You never write like the following list is for the upcoming Easter Bunny movie. I might write.
00:27:36
You just start going eggs, eggs, eggs. And everyone's like, she's totally lost it.
00:27:41
Like anything out of context that's creative like that could make you seem. Yeah.
00:27:46
Because you don't expect anyone else to ever read it. But then if they find it after your fucking sudden and mysterious death.
00:27:53
Right. They're going to be. And it's taped up under the. I mean, that story is just like.
00:27:58
it's all of those stories are so much to handle and like absorb in there. And it's so great.
00:28:05
They're doing it. They're so good. I want more and more. Like, I just wish they were.
00:28:08
I think there's more coming out. There's only six, which sucks, but it's so good.
00:28:12
Yeah, I love it. So good. Yeah. Okay, good. We had to, we had to put that on the,
00:28:17
on the table. Definitely. It's been so long. All right. Merch. We have it. There's some new shit.
00:28:23
The puzzles. I don't think a lot of people have been tagging us in their finished puzzle
00:28:26
because it's so hard to finish. You finish that puzzle, goddammit. You do it. The quarantine depends on you.
00:28:34
And then, oh, should we do Exactly Right News? A couple of quick Exactly Right Podcast Network.
00:28:43
We have this week out is everyone's favorite, I Said No Gifts podcast. And the guest is comedian Yasser Lester.
00:28:53
The most hilarious. Yeah, Murder Squad this week, Like, Billy and Paul are actually covering that mysterious death of Tamla Horsford, which is a story that a bunch of people have been talking about recently.
00:29:07
They're looking into this. Basically, she was the only black guest at a sleepover party in Georgia in November of 2018.
00:29:16
And she was found dead the next morning. And people have been asking to have her case reopened.
00:29:21
So Billy and Paul look into it. That's that's very I've seen a lot of people talking about that recently.
00:29:26
That's really interesting. I can't wait to hear what they what they talk about. Me too.
00:29:31
Anything else? And then, of course, on Diner this week, me and Chris talk about the Dave Matthews Band.
00:29:36
I don't know what more topical, timely, relevant material you need from a podcast.
00:29:43
No, I mean, yeah, it's like don't cross promote. You guys are dropping the dime.
00:29:51
I don't know. You're on top of the news. Sure. Oh, my God. It like it we we are as if the Los Angeles Times was in a car had once been in a car and pick people up from the airport
00:30:05
Another thing that Vince always reminds me of whenever he hears Dave Matthews' band referenced is that that remember that one time they were driving over a bridge in Chicago and they opened that they were like in their RV or they're like touring van.
00:30:20
And they opened the floodgates to like get let all the, you know, waste out as you do on a bus over the river.
00:30:26
But there was a tour boat underneath at that exact moment. And they dumped all their touring, you know, excrement onto that boat, destroying the lives of at least 35 tourists.
00:30:43
I mean, you would. I mean, where do you go? How do you stop screaming? How do you live your life?
00:30:52
When you have your first child, you look at it and go like, this is so much better than that one time that Dave Matthews fan's excrement got dumped upon us.
00:31:03
Every worst moment of your life, someone dies and you're like, but this is worse than the time that Dave Matthews fan.
00:31:12
But not by much, actually, now that I think about it, because at least they lived a full life and I was nearly 23 when I was on my tour.
00:31:21
I mean, it is so fucked and it is so like, I mean, it's like that. I think it's that kind of thing.
00:31:28
I'm like, yeah, let's bring this to the forefront. You can't just dump shit anywhere.
00:31:34
Literally, you can't just dump shit anywhere. You can't. And like, that's a good metaphor for life to like,
00:31:40
Well, look where you're going before you open your floodgates of excrement from your backup band.
00:31:47
Yeah. You're going to want to be careful when you are heading out of town. Yeah.
00:31:53
In love and life, please watch where you dump your excrement. Please. Your excrement smells extra bad to other people.
00:32:05
Treat your friends and family like you would a boat full of tourists below Dave Matthews and like cover them with your love and a tarp of love.
00:32:18
Actually, be the better bus driver. That's like, I'm going to wait until we get out by the fields and grasslands.
00:32:28
Nowhere near Chicago. People are everywhere. Downtown Chicago? I didn't know. They must have just pulled out of their hotel.
00:32:38
They had just rocked out the night before. Best show. Everyone's high-fiving, high-fiving each other.
00:32:46
All three bass players are like, we did it, guys. Dave Mast is like, boop, boop, boop, boop, doing his terrible scatting.
00:32:56
Scatting is right. you're getting right i mean this is we're right now covering material that every decent
00:33:04
morning radio show went into deeply 17 years ago when this happened we've turned into a morning
00:33:10
radio show why is it always chaos when we link up because nobody plans anything bro good thing
00:33:18
the rug's ready like that for real rain dirt whatever available all-wheel drive five modes
00:33:24
we still outside and they got some kick too that turbo torque is crazy the most in its class it
00:33:30
moves moves rogue doesn't mess around and peep the space merch on merch gear mics all of it fits
00:33:38
load up we out 2026 nissan rogue built for all of it auto pacific segmentation 2026 rogue versus
00:33:45
latest in-market competitors in the x suv mainstream midsides class excluding electrical vehicles
00:33:51
based on manufacturer websites. Hero Bread delivers the stacked sandwiches, loaded bagels, rich mac and cheese you love
00:33:58
just with a better protein to calorie balance that may help fuel you longer. Made with high quality ingredients,
00:34:04
every bite lands soft and satisfying with up to 19 grams of protein, plus up to 32 grams of fiber per serving.
00:34:11
Shop now at hero.co. Code IHeart for 10% off. All figures per serving. See calorie info at hero.co.
00:34:17
34 to 48% fewer calories than regular products. Calorie content has been reduced on average from 162 to 92 calories per serving.
00:34:22
Data accurate as of 2-20-26. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. The message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.
00:34:29
Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.
00:34:35
Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.
00:34:41
Anyway, give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch. Upfront payment of $45 for three-month plan,
00:34:47
equivalent to $15 per month required. Intro rate first three months only. Then full price plan options available.
00:34:51
Taxes and fees extra. See full terms at MintMobile.com. Hey, am I first this week or are you first?
00:34:57
I'm first. Oh, first and left. And middle. All right. Well, okay. So here's my story, my solo story.
00:35:06
What a pressure. Let's hear it. I know, right? Yeah. But I'm here for you to ask questions.
00:35:10
Give me the old signal if you don't want me to ask the question. Ask the questions.
00:35:13
I just don't know all the answers. Okay, great. Okay. I do have a question because I didn't know this until very recently.
00:35:20
Did you know that Michael Jordan's father was killed? Yes. Well, I'm going to cover that murder.
00:35:27
Okay. Oh, my God. Amazing. Great. What were you just going to say? I was going to say, if you ask me a question and you frame it, did you know?
00:35:36
Okay. I always have to say yes. I'm sorry. I forgot about it. I was damaged terribly as a child.
00:35:42
Damaged terribly. it's going to be like pulling teeth for me to be like I didn't know
00:35:47
okay there's no like there's no world where it's okay for you not to know a thing
00:35:51
or like no no no no make fun of you and like come after you I mean after the fact when I already been wrong and it being discussed that fine because I won be there for it But in the face you and me
00:36:05
what you should say is, I know an interesting thing. I found that an interesting thing.
00:36:10
I didn't know. And that's okay because it's okay not to know everything. In fourth grade, I got
00:36:18
made fun of for not knowing what the word whore meant. And looking back, I'm like, that's probably good that I didn't know.
00:36:25
Yeah. Are you fucking cunt? But I mean, at the same time, it was humiliating. Well, what is it?
00:36:33
I mean, when you're in fourth grade, that's the kind of thing where every day when you
00:36:38
are in like grammar school, especially into junior high. Yeah. You get up and go to school.
00:36:42
The rules have changed overnight. You don't know what you're supposed to know. All you know is you're already behind.
00:36:49
You don't have the right. You don't own the right thing. No. This fucking hyper color shirt was baller a week ago.
00:36:55
And now I'm now now you can just see where I'm sweating because I hit puberty. What?
00:36:59
Now it's just tragic. Wait, I have to. That just reminded me. I was telling my sister a story about things that happened today.
00:37:08
And at one point, my sister goes, oh, my God, Jesus Christ. What are they? A seventh grade girl.
00:37:14
And then my niece goes, hey, that's offensive to me. Seventh grade girl here. representing. I would never act like that. They're more woke than we are. They know.
00:37:26
Okay. So actually, you mentioning this, to get back on your topic. Let's talk about this.
00:37:31
Sorry. I cannot wait to watch the ESPN 3430, not 30 by 30, which I called it. That's a home improvement show. Yeah. 30 by 30. I thought it was all about
00:37:47
Beams, posts and beams. So, yeah, that's there's and there's also The Last Dance, which is the documentary on ESPN.
00:37:55
And it's 10 episodes and it's all about Michael Jordan's life. OK, which Vince watched and loved.
00:38:02
And I kind of checked in and out as I do and did with Rambo. But then, honestly, I didn't know about James Jordan, his father being murdered until I watched this.
00:38:14
And then, of course, Vince knew everything about it. And I was like, why didn't you told me?
00:38:17
and it was ugly. Okay. So then I looked into it and it's like a fucking whole conspiracy mystery thing.
00:38:23
Oh, shit. Please tell me all about it because when everyone was talking about The Last Dance,
00:38:27
I assumed it was 30 for 30, but it's The Last Dance, whatever. But I was like, I'm going to watch that
00:38:33
because sports documentaries, even though I'm not the biggest sports fan. Me neither.
00:38:40
When they know how to tell a story and they basically save it for the good ones,
00:38:44
the good ones are unbelievable. And this is that and it takes you back to that early 90s time and place, you know, space jammy fucking cool shit.
00:38:55
And I think because I didn't care about sports so much, I tuned it out immediately.
00:38:58
I didn't know about this whole story about Michael Jordan's dad. So I looked into it for this podcast that we great little podcast.
00:39:06
This one? Yes, this one. Now, mostly. So I got information from the website. All that's interesting.
00:39:12
There's an article by Marco Margaritoff. There's a Washington Post article by Kyle Swenson.
00:39:18
There's a great article on Deadspin. That's just an old GQ article from 1994 by Scott Rabb.
00:39:28
There's an Insight Edition article by Sal Bono, a Chicago Tribune article by Dan Weider.
00:39:33
And then there's also a NBA like YouTube channel hosted by this guy named Mike Korizemba, who does like conspiracy theories and like little 10 minute stories about the NBA.
00:39:46
It's really cool. Wow. And he had a whole episode about this. So. All right. Let's get into it.
00:39:52
OK. So James Jordan is born in the tiny town of Wallace, North Carolina in 1936.
00:39:58
At the age of 18, he joins the Air Force. And in 1956, he marries his high school sweetheart, Dolores.
00:40:05
They have three children. They moved to Brooklyn in 1963. So James can receive training as a mechanic on the GI Bill.
00:40:12
He said he studies airplane hydraulics and Dolores finds work at a bank. And while they're there on February 17th, 1963, they have their fourth child, Michael Jordan.
00:40:23
Wow. You've heard of him. You may know. Yeah. Wait, can I just say really quick?
00:40:28
Yeah. The mind bogglingly humongous donation that Michael Jordan made, like, in week two of the protests to Black Lives Matter.
00:40:37
How much was it? Steven, did you look it up? I think I think it was like $100 million.
00:40:42
That's amazing. He's really big on charity. And that that's kind of his mother's work.
00:40:47
His dad was like, so James Jordan, his dad was super supportive. And behind him the whole way advising him on sports.
00:40:56
And his mom was like, OK, but you can't become a big headed asshole. You all. And she would organize all his share because he was really big into charity and, you know,
00:41:05
children's charities. And that's his mom, Dolores. It's pretty. It's a pretty big.
00:41:09
He had really supportive, wonderful parents. Karen, you were correct. It was 100 million.
00:41:13
Wow. Thank you. Isn't that crazy? Amazing. Humongous. Yeah. So the family eventually moves back to North Carolina so the kids can be raised in a safer
00:41:22
environment. And then Michael decides in high school that he wants to play basketball, which James supports him, even though James prefers the game of baseball, which he actually had played semi-professionally himself.
00:41:34
But he was like, basketball, let's do this. In the early 90s, Michael Jordan is an enormous basketball star and store, kind of.
00:41:43
There was a couple of stores. Yeah. And he becomes a household name. He wins championship after championship three NBA championships three NBA MVP wins and two Olympic gold medals And he is a fucking global icon Whether or not you into sports I remember this so well i mean he was just entirely he was a huge he was a star so michael describes his
00:42:06
father who he calls pops which is my favorite nickname for a dad or grandfather character
00:42:12
it's i call my dad pops yay my brother-in-law and my so my nephew they call um their the
00:42:20
grandparents, Honey and Pops. And I just and her name's not Honey. She just goes by Honey and Pops.
00:42:26
And they're the sweetest fucking people on the planet. That's so cute. Yeah. So he calls him he
00:42:31
calls his dad Pops. He's his best friend. He's his number one cheerleader. He like from high school
00:42:38
to Michael's NCAA career at the University of North Carolina to his professional career with
00:42:43
the Chicago Bulls starting in 1984. James Jordan is there every step of the way, flying from city
00:42:49
to city with his son to support his career. So a really important figure in Michael Jordan's life,
00:42:56
which takes us to July 22, 1993. So James Jordan is in Wilmington, North Carolina. He's attending
00:43:03
the funeral of an ex-colleague. And after the funeral, he visits with friends late into the
00:43:08
night, I think seemed kind of like when you do after a funeral, everyone's kibitzing and such.
00:43:13
Yeah. And then so he hits the road sometime after midnight for the three and a half hour drive back
00:43:17
to Charlotte, which is a long drive after midnight. You know, he's expected to catch a plane to Chicago
00:43:24
the next day to meet up with Michael and an hour into the drive, he gets tired. So he pulls over
00:43:29
to take a nap in his it's his prized. He's in his prized cherry red 1992 Lexus SC 400. I know about
00:43:39
as much about cars as I know about sports. So I don't know what that means. So he pulls off the
00:43:44
road to take a nap. He's just south of Lumberton, North Carolina, which is a city in Robeson County,
00:43:50
about 30 minutes outside of Fayetteville. So we're talking a lot of little rural areas,
00:43:57
right? Yeah. Like long stretches of road, that sort of thing. It's disputed whether or not he
00:44:02
just pulled off the road or if he was in the parking lot of a quality inn. But either way,
00:44:07
it wasn't a really great place to stop. They were like both known like drug dealing areas.
00:44:13
Okay. You know what I mean? I do. Do you know what I mean about drug dealing and areas?
00:44:20
Karen's face used to be a drug dealing area. Listen, I've spent some time out in front of the quality and not in that area, but of my own personal quality and side.
00:44:31
So 11 days later, cut to a local fisherman hunting for catfish spots a man face down in Gum Swamp, which is a creek near South Carolina's northern border.
00:44:45
The body is tangled on a branch and is fully dressed, but missing its shoes. Authorities from the nearby town of McCall, which is another tiny town, can't find any identification on the badly decomposed body.
00:44:57
So they classify him as a John Doe and an autopsy determines that the cause of death is a single shot gunshot to the right side of the victim's chest with a 38 caliber bullet.
00:45:08
I know. And because it's such a small rural community, there's a lack of storage at the morgue.
00:45:14
So when the body isn't claimed or identified for a while, it's cremated. Oh, no.
00:45:19
But thankfully, the coroner who, by the way, he's a part time coroner. This is how small the town is.
00:45:24
And who also owns a construction company in town. So like, that's what we're fucking.
00:45:30
That's the kind of size we're talking about here. Volunteer coroner. Pretty much.
00:45:34
Size town. OK. He notices that the John Doe has expensive dental work. And so he's like, let's just save this.
00:45:42
So he removes the jaw from before they cremate. Thank God. The remains as well as the hands, just in case they're able to identify them in the future.
00:45:51
Crazy, right? Yes. So meanwhile, when James Jordan doesn't arrive as expected in Chicago the following day,
00:45:59
his friends and family actually aren't worried because he's known for changing plans without
00:46:03
notice. And but when he doesn't check in with his secretary after a long period, she calls Michael Jordan
00:46:11
as well as Michael Jordan's mom to let him know she hasn't heard from him. It's 21 days before family members officially report Jordan missing, which is a long time.
00:46:21
And I think it adds a little bit of like a suspicion to what happened. But it seems like it was kind of like everyone was doing their own thing.
00:46:30
And it seemed like it was a normal thing in the family. So on the 22nd day that he'd been missing, his body is identified with the dental records from the jawbones the coroner kept as James Jordan.
00:46:44
Wow. Yeah. And police also find his prize Lexus. It's been abandoned and stripped in the woods near Fayetteville, which is about 60 miles from where his body had been found.
00:46:55
So when news of his death breaks, though, the media goes fucking apeshit. Do you remember any of this?
00:47:02
Yes. OK, I don't. And there's and there's all kinds of speculation based on the fact that.
00:47:08
So there's another thing I wasn't really keen on is that Michael Jordan was super into gambling.
00:47:14
I had no idea. So Michael Jordan would gamble on anything from like ping pong games to golf games to like, is my bag going to come out first while we're at the airport waiting for it?
00:47:26
Like he was super in to like gambling and stakes. And, you know, I bet you this. I bet you that. Right.
00:47:33
Yeah. Sorry. I just got really sad because it makes me think of all those times that we would be waiting for our bag.
00:47:39
Oh, Karen. Oh, those times on the road. Why haven't we been betting 10 bucks on them this whole time?
00:47:45
Seriously, Georgia and I had a running like argument about like, will our bags come out
00:47:50
first? Because we paid for first class this time. And sometimes they would and sometimes they wouldn't.
00:47:56
I would say it was like 50-50. Yeah. But every time we get up there, it was like we were both kind.
00:48:00
what's it going to be this time? That whole time we could have been having fun and bedding and now we don't get to
00:48:05
do it anymore. COVID ruined all of it. We are going to have, in 20 years on our first, when this is over,
00:48:13
on our first tour back, we're going to have the most fun. It's going to be fucking ridiculous.
00:48:22
We're going to, I think that's when we go on our Dave Matthews bus tour and just dump shit across
00:48:28
this nation. Whether it be on stages in a show verbally literally whatever it takes okay sorry no amazing so he
00:48:37
would he would bet on anything yes he would bet on anything um but he also was into like atlantic
00:48:42
city and vegas and shit like high roller style you have to think about the fact too michael jordan
00:48:48
is you know the biggest basketball star consistent wins huge paychecks or whatever his his um what
00:48:57
is that the, you know, his excitement, he was always trying to peak that excitement.
00:49:03
That's the problem with people that get into that position where then you win the great,
00:49:10
the golden championship. I don't know what it's called. You win the championship.
00:49:13
It's the golden championship. The golden championship. And you're the golden boy of the golden championship.
00:49:18
And like, of course, then you're suddenly you're just like $10,000 that my bag comes
00:49:23
out next because you need the hit. You need the adrenaline hit. I don't know what their financial situation was, but let's say they have a normal middle class situation and suddenly Nike is throwing you millions of dollars to make your own shoes.
00:49:38
And you don't ever have time off because you're practicing all the time. So, yeah, of course, like with your fucking best friend, Scottie Pippen, I don't know if that's a thing.
00:49:46
You're fucking betting all the time because there's nothing else to do, probably.
00:49:50
So it becomes this compulsion, I would imagine. And it's about winning and it's about power, but it's also about you get to a point where those people get to that point of success where they don't even see the rest of the casino because they're always behind the velvet curtain.
00:50:08
Exactly. Where the food spread, where there's gambling and a food spread no one else has ever seen before.
00:50:14
That's right. Yeah. All right. Sounds great, actually. Yeah. We'll get there. We'll get there.
00:50:20
Except. Buffalo. Buffalo. Except it becomes a problem, though. And in fact, the summer that James Jordan is killed, the NBA had just announced a huge investigation into Michael Jordan's gambling problem.
00:50:36
Oh, yeah. The investigation centered around the fact that Michael had given a large amount of money to a known drug mule and gambling crony who had worked for a dude who was known as a drug kingpin.
00:50:50
And it was for gambling debt. And there's proof that he was in business with all kinds of shady characters who he owed lots of money in gambling losses to.
00:50:58
So that's not the not fun part is that you actually rack up losses. Yeah, because you do, you know, when it's out of your control, it's just the luck of the draw.
00:51:06
Yeah. Then you lose. Luck of the draw, but fucking the chips are stacked against you?
00:51:11
Yeah. Look at me. Yeah. Terminology and shit. So the media goes crazy. It's theorized that the killing isn't a random act of violence because it is a fucking crazy coincidence.
00:51:22
Right. And instead, the media implies that the murder happened because of Michael's gambling debts.
00:51:27
And maybe they killed his father to send him a message. And actually, to this day, it's still a huge conspiracy theory.
00:51:32
And there are people who will who totally stand by this theory. Like maybe the mob did it.
00:51:36
Maybe the NBA was like sick of his shit and they were making him look bad. They were making them look bad or they were going to they thought they were going to come after them and their families.
00:51:45
So that's like a theory. I don't believe it, but no, it's not. It's not true. So I'm just going to say it. At the time of his father's murder, Jordan issues a statement saying he was outraged. And that quote, I'm trying to deal with the overwhelming feelings of loss and grief in a way that would make my dad proud.
00:52:04
I simply cannot comprehend how others could intentionally pour salt in my open wound by insinuating that faults and mistakes in my life are in some way connected to my father's death, which is like you're not just yeah, you're not just dealing with your father's unexpected, brutal murder.
00:52:21
Right. It's also people saying it's your fucking fault. Yeah. So Michael and his family have James's ashes interred at a small cemetery near a church in Teechee, North Carolina during a private ceremony.
00:52:35
And 52 days later, Michael, now 30, without his biggest supporter, shocks everyone by announcing his retirement from the NBA.
00:52:44
And he says, quote, the most positive thing I can take from my father not being here with me today is that he saw my last basketball game.
00:52:52
And that means a lot. so he retired because he didn't want to play another game and you know obviously he said that
00:53:00
i just read it yeah yeah um he's heartbroken and there's this crazy heart-wrenching video that i
00:53:06
think is in the last dance um of after he wins a big game on the first father's day without his dad
00:53:13
he goes um back to the locker room and just lays down on the floor and he's sobbing and there are
00:53:19
all these cameras around him and they like kind of no one knows what to do. It's really sad.
00:53:25
But no one, no one knows what to do. But they certainly don't stop rolling those cameras
00:53:29
out of decency. Right. That's exactly right. So meanwhile, the investigation has to go on,
00:53:35
right? So investigators led by Robeson County Sheriff Hubert Stone, they're able to trace
00:53:40
so they get the car, they trace 36 calls made from the Lexus's car phone to friends and family
00:53:47
of two local teens So Daniel Green and Larry Demery So they 18 years old They had become friends when they met in third grade They really close They had both been outcasts And Daniel is black Larry is a Native American from the local Lumbee tribe They both just
00:54:06
kind of outcasts in their families. And they find each other in third grade and become inseparable,
00:54:12
almost like they see each other like brothers. The now 18 year olds both have criminal records.
00:54:19
So it seems like an open and shut case. These two kids. Police charge them with murder in the first
00:54:24
degree, conspiracy to commit armed robbery and armed robbery. Sorry, because they made calls from
00:54:30
that stolen Lexus. And that's the connection? Because they're known criminals in town,
00:54:35
in a small town. And because all the 36 calls that are traced through those, they are all two
00:54:41
friends and family of those two boys. Yes, but stealing a car is not the same thing as killing
00:54:45
a person. If you're questioning the investigation into the stolen car sounding weird, you're exactly
00:54:52
right. Thank you. Thank you for supporting me. So Demery quickly turns on his friend, Daniel Green,
00:55:00
when police tell him that Green had already ratted him out, you know, that lie of like,
00:55:04
well, he told us what happened and said it was your fault. What are you going to do?
00:55:07
Yeah. Demery agrees to a plea deal and a lighter sentence when the DA points out the evidence they
00:55:11
have against him for the murder. And as well as three other armed robberies, he'd been a part of
00:55:17
that same summer, one of which he had smashed an elderly woman over the head with a brick.
00:55:23
Oh, no. So it's not looking good. No. Demery pleads guilty to charges related to the murder and agrees to testify against his
00:55:30
lifelong friend Green. Demery's story is that he and Green originally planned to rob a tourist at the Quality Inn,
00:55:35
but then they saw this red Lexus parked along the shoulder of the road nearby with the driver
00:55:41
asleep, and they were like, easy target. it. They said that they plan to tie him up and leave him alongside the road and just take the
00:55:47
car. But Demery claims that Green, that his friend Green shot the driver in the chest when he started
00:55:53
waking up saying it's all his fault, you know. And then they took a look at the victim's driver's
00:55:58
license, realize who he is, and then decide they have to get rid of him. So they dumped the body
00:56:03
over a bridge near the swamp and abandoned the car in the forest 40 miles away. And that's his
00:56:09
story. And since Daniel Green doesn't give a statement at all, that's and he doesn't testify,
00:56:14
that's kind of the official version of what happens. And that goes on the record.
00:56:18
So the case against Green mounts. Okay, so a rap video like a homemade rap video comes out
00:56:24
that was filmed days after Jordan's death. In it, Green is wearing the NBA championship watch
00:56:30
and 1986 All-Star ring that Jordan was given by his son, which had both been taken from the Lexus.
00:56:37
So like they're clearly involved. They were both there. I feel like there's no way to dispute that.
00:56:44
Yeah. And also you can't if you're wearing the jewelry of the person, then my whole theory of, hey, you can steal a car, but not kill the person like those could have been two separate things.
00:56:54
But right. Right. It doesn't look good at all. It doesn't. It's yeah. So when Green's murder trial starts in January of 1996, the state's case rests mostly on Demery's testimony against his friend, but it's supported by supposed blood evidence.
00:57:10
The prosecution maintains that Jordan was shot through the heart at close range while sitting in a driver's seat of his Lexus.
00:57:17
But the coroner's report shows there's no exit wound. Like it didn't come out. You know, it didn't just go in and stay, which I think is what happens when a gunshot is shot close up.
00:57:30
But it's so it suggests that the gunshot was actually shot from farther away. Does that make sense?
00:57:38
Because there was an exit wound? Because there wasn't an exit wound. Because there wasn't an exit wound.
00:57:42
Exactly. And there's also no blood or gunshot residue found inside the car. But the state presents expert testimony from a woman named Jennifer Elwell.
00:57:53
She's a special agent at the State Bureau of Investigation to support Demery's story against his friend.
00:57:58
And she testifies that two chemical tests suggested, quote, a pretty good indication of blood in the car.
00:58:06
So it's like, we don't know. Is there isn't there blood in the car? how close up or far away was he shot.
00:58:13
It's weird. Huh? Well, very weird, too. You would think that there would be more than a pretty good indication of blood at a gunshot scene.
00:58:22
There should be if you're bringing it up as a large part of the evidence against someone, you know?
00:58:28
Yeah. Yeah. But it's 1996, you know, shit's fucked up. Green is convicted and sentenced to life.
00:58:35
and Damari is only given 40 years because of his cooperation and the case is officially closed.
00:58:42
But now a days, 25 years later, Green is trying to get a new trial in the North Carolina justice
00:58:50
system and key elements of the case are coming to light. So first is the mystery of the shirt
00:58:57
that James Jordan was wearing when he was shot. The autopsy concludes that Jordan is shot once
00:59:03
on the right side of the chest, but the pathologist notes that there are no holes in the shirt
00:59:07
that he's wearing. Whoa. And there's no sign of gunshot residue either. Okay. Ready for this?
00:59:14
After the autopsy, the police gave the shirt to a company that performs funeral services,
00:59:20
and then they buried the shirt because they claimed it had an overpowering stench.
00:59:25
Which, like, I don't care who is responsible for what. That's the fucking weirdest explanation I've ever heard of something like this.
00:59:32
I mean, I guess because the body was decomposed and in a swamp or whatever, but still.
00:59:40
Shouldn't you keep the shirt for evidence? Yeah. Right. So they bury it, which I think is weird, too.
00:59:48
Yeah. And the shirt is later dug up at that facility and it has a hole in the chest where it didn before Okay Yeah So Green attorney theorized that the state was at least careless with the evidence or maybe even tampered with a shirt and added a hole that wasn there to begin with
01:00:05
And then there maybe there's a reason. And then this is where it might. Does it go all the way to the top?
01:00:10
Question mark. So remember all those phone calls made from Alexis? There were 36 total.
01:00:14
Well, the police figured out that the first call went to a sex hotline because the kids were fucking 18 years old.
01:00:22
Of course, it's a. Yeah. Idiots. Okay. Yeah. The second call is made to a 919 area code in Pembroke, North Carolina, seven hours after the murder.
01:00:31
And it's registered to a man named Huber Larry Dees. And the call lasts less than a minute.
01:00:37
But this dude, Larry Dees, is a co-worker of Demery. He is also a high-level drug trafficker who ends up being arrested in February of 1994, less than a year after the murder,
01:00:47
and is linked to a Colombian cocaine pipeline that had connections in New York and North Carolina.
01:00:54
So that's the second phone call they made off of this stolen car phone. Okay. So this guy Deez, most importantly, though, is the biological son of none other than Hubert Stone, who I mentioned before, who happens to be the Robeson County Sheriff.
01:01:12
What? Yeah. Does that make sense? They called the sheriff's son? Yeah. Yep. Uh-huh.
01:01:17
Who is a drug trafficker and drug dealer. in a lot in the same ways where the preacher's son
01:01:25
would be kind of a rebel right he might be the only man who could ever teach you
01:01:32
really ever reach me the son of a preacher man that's right their first call is to
01:01:40
their drug dealer friend whose dad is to share first call is to a sex hotline oh sorry
01:01:45
that's why I said idiots It's because they're so what together in a car, they're making a phone call so that someone's like, hey, what are you guys?
01:01:56
They're going to have dual phone sex with the one. Right. And then it's like charge it to the phone light.
01:02:02
So, yeah, when I was in junior high and I got in trouble for something, probably I think it was drugs.
01:02:08
They put me in a room to be like, wait, you're we're going to call your mother. Wait here. And like I did. And there was a phone there.
01:02:13
And I was like, I'm going to make 900 calls and like, and the only number I knew from like the back of a Rolling Stone was the Grateful Dead hotline.
01:02:24
So I called it. What'd they say? I think it was just some recording of like Grateful Dead music.
01:02:33
What I'm saying is that's such a fucking, what's the word when you're really young, immature thing to do.
01:02:42
Yes. It's just like, yeah, your brain is like, what do we call? Who do we call? Plus, they probably never used a fucking car.
01:02:47
Like, we didn't have car phones. That was like a rich people fucking thing. 94. 93.
01:02:52
That was a car phone. Yeah. That was a very big deal. That was a very big deal. So like, who do we call?
01:02:57
And like, the only number I know is the one that comes up at fucking 1am on the TV every
01:03:01
night. Yeah. And I call it. When it's like, do you want to party inside? Hey. Hey, big boy.
01:03:08
Do you want to have double car sex with your friend? with a friend sitting next to you.
01:03:14
It's horrible. So in addition to him being the biological son of the Robeson County Sheriff,
01:03:22
he's also, no, he, one of the lead detectives on the case is Mark Locklear. He's a friend of this kid,
01:03:29
the son, Deese, and sometimes lets Deese ride along in his patrol car with him. Okay.
01:03:34
All right. Here's the biggest problem is that Deese is the only person on that car phone call log
01:03:40
to never be questioned in connection with the case. They call 36 people. They question, let's say, 34.
01:03:49
And the sex line, they give it a call. She's like, hello, I'll answer any questions you want.
01:03:56
Right. But they leave out the number 36 person. Ridiculous. Right. It doesn't. It's bad.
01:04:04
That's bad. Yeah, that's not good. No. And Green's attorney finds that the prosecution knew of Deese's relationship
01:04:10
to the sheriff and detective and he doesn't disclose any of this to the defense at trial.
01:04:15
So like that alone is just a mistrial probably at that point. Don't you think? Yeah, I would think so.
01:04:20
Yeah. So I think that's what they're going for. Yeah. So Green's lawyer thinks that James Jordan, what they say is that James Jordan was in the wrong
01:04:28
place at the wrong time when a drug dealer drug deal was about to go down and Demery,
01:04:34
this kid Deese or another party shot him. And they say that maybe Deese's connection to local
01:04:40
law enforcement helped him get out of trouble. But the kid, this kid himself doesn't comment on
01:04:45
this angle. But his lawyer says that the theory is completely unfounded. And he claims that Green
01:04:49
and Demery had only called him because they kind of knew that he was a local drug dealer. And he
01:04:55
might be someone who would be in the market to buy the car they had just stolen, which sounds
01:04:59
totally feasible to me. It's just so weird that he has these connections. So that makes sense.
01:05:05
It's just such, you know, it's the investigator's fault that they didn't look into this one name.
01:05:11
Well, and then why? Is it their fault or was it intentional? Yeah, because it's on them.
01:05:17
Due diligence, right? I mean, just call every person. Because also, why wouldn't you?
01:05:23
It just doesn't seem very smart where it's like if you say you were trying to cover for someone's son as an incident.
01:05:31
Why wouldn't you just have the actual do the investigation, do the interrogation, go through the motions?
01:05:39
Give them a fake alibi if you need. Like, I'm not telling you how to do your shitty job, but like pretend that you're going through the motions.
01:05:48
Right. But maybe in those you know what we seen before in stories like this where in small towns when there such a lock on the law enforcement aspect of life it a lock like no one messes with certain people no one does certain things
01:06:05
that maybe they're never pulling back and saying, this is going to be a national, if not international story,
01:06:12
we better cross every T and dot every I. They're just like, business as usual. So in the early 2000s, actually,
01:06:19
the Robeson County Sheriff's Office is like caught up in a federal corruption probe.
01:06:27
So there are issues with the Sheriff's Department aside from this. It's not a coincidence. The probe
01:06:33
is called Operation Tarnished Badge, which is really clever. 22 officers are charged with crimes,
01:06:38
including perjury, drug trafficking and money laundering. So but neither Locklear or Sheriff
01:06:44
Stoner caught up in the federal probe at all. And Stone dies in 2008. And Deese serves some time of a
01:06:52
federal sentence. He's released in 1998. He denies any involvement with the death at all. And there's
01:06:56
really nothing to connect him to him, except for that phone call and the curious circumstances that
01:07:02
he never got asked about it. You know? Yes. And what's interesting is they could have literally
01:07:09
been like, we got this car, which means we might have money soon. Let's see if we can get some
01:07:14
pot or something that is just, it alludes to more, but actually is just kind of a standard
01:07:23
fare. Could be very standard fare. A small town, small time drug traffickers or drug dealers.
01:07:32
So they can't have, you know, maybe $5,000 at a time of drugs to be sold. So who do they know that's going to have the kind of money to buy this brand new Lexus?
01:07:42
Not a lot of people. so they think of the one guy they know who might have an actual hookup you know and then if it's a
01:07:49
hot car they can actually right and it's a hot car and he's like fuck you no right which any smart
01:07:55
crook would know to do but see yeah and they also like the idea that they would make that video and
01:08:02
wear that jewelry which means that at some point they knew who they killed oh they absolutely knew
01:08:07
i think yeah it sounds like as soon as they killed him that night i don't think they knew but i think
01:08:12
OK, whoever killed him didn't know. They found out immediately. But they didn't seem that bummed.
01:08:17
They made a fucking music video. They made a video. So it turned, you know, meanwhile, both both Demery and Green had been partners in at least two other armed robberies.
01:08:28
That's that same summer during one of which Green had stolen a 38 caliber gun from an elderly county store clerk who he shot.
01:08:36
Allegedly, the clerk survives. They found that stolen firearm in a shot vac in Green's home after his arrest.
01:08:45
They say it's the weapon that killed James Jordan, but they can't prove it through ballistics.
01:08:50
So they're like, this is, you know, this is obviously what happened. It's not that complicated, but they're still fighting it.
01:08:55
In Green's post-conviction motion, his legal team argues that prosecutors didn't disclose at trial that multiple other chemical tests performed by that woman, Elwell, on the leather taken from Jordan's front seat were inconclusive and blood might not have been present.
01:09:11
So there's all these blood issues. And over the years, the state has agreed that there was little evidence to show much or any blood inside Jordan's car.
01:09:21
And Green's attorney says the absence of blood goes against the official version of events, which Demery, you know, had made and gives enough reasonable doubt for Green's case.
01:09:30
And also weird is that the blood evidence in the case was destroyed almost immediately after the trial, which Elwell later admitted was out of the norm.
01:09:40
And the head of the lab said the evidence had been destroyed without his knowledge.
01:09:45
Wow. Someone got in there. Yeah. And an outside audit of the state crime lab in 2010 that just happened, you know, otherwise found that analysts omitted, overstated or falsely reported information about blood evidence in one hundred and ninety cases from 1987 to 2003 that ended in convictions.
01:10:05
Whoa. That's what people need to think about when they think about fucking, well, he's a convicted felon.
01:10:10
It's like, you know, this person's clearly guilty because there was blood evidence or this kind of evidence.
01:10:15
You know, we're talking about humans doing these tests, other humans, and humans are fallible completely.
01:10:23
Yep. So you just never know what you can count on. Yes, it's very true. It's very true.
01:10:28
Thank you. We've been doing this show for four years. Four and a half years. You know what?
01:10:34
four and a half it's almost like we're in an abusive relationship with true crime
01:10:40
look the way true crime has been served up for a long time is like here's the story, here's the case
01:10:50
here's the infallible source or the final word here's how you can feel about it period
01:10:57
it's important and it's a major change but it's like yeah it's like that part in the staircase you know right one of one of our our bonding uh
01:11:09
pieces of media where they show that that guy that was the blood um splatter expert was making shit
01:11:19
up just making it up things i i truly like until i saw that documentary i was just like i'm sorry
01:11:27
Like, yeah, like this is this is there's no way to make up science. Like, there's no way you can do that.
01:11:35
And it's like, of course you can. Of course you can mishandle things. Right. Of course you do.
01:11:40
You know, you're the ones that saying, well, here's how we're going to test it in my garage.
01:11:44
And the same way you can't rely on eyewitness testimony because humans have fallible brains, you know.
01:11:51
Yeah. That can't be the only evidence. Exactly. Then you have to make sure that all the sources are okay.
01:11:57
And yeah, I mean, it's... It's bewildering to think about and horrifying. It's very scary.
01:12:04
Things have to change. Yes. The processes have to change. And, you know, and that's why people get mad at us if we're like people clap at the end of a live show.
01:12:11
They're glad that a serial killer died or went to jail. And it's just like that used to be I'd be like, what are you talking about?
01:12:19
And it's like because there are those people who are in jail and they should not be.
01:12:24
Right. OK, so these days, as of 2018, Green is making an appeal for a retrial and he claims that he wasn't even present during the shooting.
01:12:34
So at this point, he's now telling his side of the story. He says he's guilty of accessory to murder after the fact.
01:12:40
At the most, Green's official version of the events on that night of July 23rd, 1993, is that he and Demery were at a cookout at a friend's house.
01:12:49
around 1.30 Demery left the party on his own and Green stayed behind and then Demery returned to
01:12:57
grab his friend and he was visibly upset he asked Green to come along with him and they left the
01:13:03
together at 4.30 a.m. and Larry says that the reason he had left earlier was for a drug deal
01:13:10
instead had gotten in a confrontation with a man in a red Lexus and he had fatally shot him
01:13:15
And he asked his best friend, Daniel Green, to help him dispose of the body. Green says he agrees to do it and they take his possessions, realize who he is, but he does help him dispose of the body.
01:13:29
So that's what he's admitting to at this point. But he says he wasn't there for the murder and he didn't pull the trigger himself.
01:13:35
If Green was only convicted of what he's admitting to, which is accessory after the fact,
01:13:41
he would have received a maximum sentence of 10 years under the North Carolina law.
01:13:45
But instead, he continues serving his life sentence in a medium security prison more than 25 years later.
01:13:52
Wow. And so what's actually interesting is that Demery's story between his original confession when he was told that his friend was turning against him, interviews with authorities and his testimony against Green.
01:14:04
His story has changed several times over the year, whereas Green's has stayed the same.
01:14:09
But after his request for a new hearing is denied and Demery declines to comment on his new claims, nothing moves forward and Green will be eligible for parole on October 14th, 2021.
01:14:22
His lead attorney is Christine Muma, and she's the executive director of the North Carolina Center on Actual Innocence.
01:14:30
So total badass, a nonprofit that focuses on wrongful conviction and whose efforts have led to criminal justice reform.
01:14:37
She says that they'll continue to appeal Green's case. And, you know, they're now in their late 40s.
01:14:42
And Demery is also being considered for parole, even though he was denied twice, once in August 2013 and once in 2016.
01:14:51
And according to a spokesperson, there's a review going on of his case as of 2019.
01:14:57
And there's no deadline to make a decision. So it's kind of just sitting there up there.
01:15:02
Yeah. Wow. Why is it always chaos when we link up? Cause nobody plans anything bro.
01:15:09
Good thing the Rogue's ready like that. For real. Rain, dirt, whatever. Available all wheel drive.
01:15:14
Five modes. We still outside. And they got some kick too. That turbo? Torque is crazy.
01:15:20
The most in its class. It moves, moves. Rogue doesn't mess around. And peep the space.
01:15:25
Merch on merch. Gear. Mics. All of it fits. Load up. We out. 2026 Nissan Rogue. Built for all of it.
01:15:33
Auto Pacific segmentation. 2026 Rogue versus latest. in-market competitors in the ex-SUV mainstream mid-sights class, excluding electrical vehicles
01:15:42
based on manufacturer websites. Missatisfying breads and pastas and want to add protein without
01:15:48
going overboard on calories? Stacked sandwiches, fully loaded bagels, noodles built for serious
01:15:54
sauce. Hero Bread delivers up to 19 grams of protein. Think bagels and elbow noodles with
01:15:59
nearly twice the protein of national bestsellers, but less than half the calories. Plus, you can get
01:16:04
up to 32 grams of fiber per serving, a bonus when you're trying to stay full and fueled.
01:16:09
So whether you're grilling burgers, building a serious sandwich, or digging into pasta,
01:16:13
you're getting real flavor with a smarter protein-to-calorie balance. Hero makes loaves, buns, tortillas, bagels, and noodles with 5 to 19 grams of protein
01:16:21
per serving that all go the distance. Shop now at Hero.co. Use code IHART for 10% off.
01:16:28
That's H-E-R-O dot C-O. All figures per serving. See nutrition info on Hero.co. 39% and 61% fewer calories than regular plain bagels and noodles, respectively.
01:16:36
Calorie content has been reduced from 270 to 130 and 200 to 80 calories per serving for plain bagels and noodles, respectively.
01:16:42
Data accurate as of 220-26. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile, with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much.
01:16:50
Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop. With Mint, you can get premium wireless for just $15 a month.
01:16:56
Of course, if you enjoy overpaying, no judgments, but that's weird. Okay, one judgment.
01:17:01
anyway give it a try at mintmobile.com slash switch up front payment of 45 for three-month
01:17:08
plan equivalent to 15 per month required intro rate first three months only then full price
01:17:11
plan options available taxes and fees extra see full terms at mintmobile.com so after retiring
01:17:16
from basketball michael jordan pursues a career in baseball um to honor his father and joins the
01:17:24
chicago white socks which i never knew was why he retired from basketball and became remember
01:17:31
he became a basketball person. I never knew that was the reason either. I didn't know the timeline of that at all.
01:17:37
Me neither. After one season, he returns to the NBA. He won three more championships with the Chicago Bulls before leaving the team in 1998,
01:17:45
retires for a second time, joins the Washington Wizards in 2001, and plays for them until
01:17:50
2003. He considered one of the greatest basketball players of all time and he inducted into the NBA Hall of Fame in 2009 But the death of his father still leaves unanswered questions for many people And the conspiracy theory that James Jordan was killed because of his son gambling debts is still like hotly debated
01:18:11
And the fact that the actual story has a lot of holes and doesn't quite add up just kind of helps with the rumors.
01:18:17
And I feel like there's also this thing where it's like the simplicity of two 18 year olds out for, you know, a joy ride and trying to rip off a tourist and murdering one of the greatest basketball legends of our time.
01:18:33
His father and greatest supporter is just it's so tragic. I feel like a lot of people just don't want that to be the truth.
01:18:39
You know what I mean? Yeah. That that that tragedy can be that random. Right. I don't know.
01:18:44
That's fascinating. Yeah. James Jordan died nine days before his 57th birthday. Oh, it's so young.
01:18:50
I know. And about him, he has just this kind face when you see him in photos with his son when they're celebrating.
01:18:56
It's just like the pride you can just see in his face. About his father, Michael Jordan once said, quote, he's a voice of reason that always drove and challenged me.
01:19:06
My father used to say that it's never too late to do anything you wanted to do. And he said, you never know what you can accomplish until you try.
01:19:14
and that is the murder of James Jordan. Wow. That's fascinating. I have no idea.
01:19:22
I can't believe it. Yeah. It's not just, it's just bewildering. Yeah. Yeah. And tragic.
01:19:31
It's crazy. And tragic. And then him and Michael Jordan being already in the spotlight,
01:19:37
it is so sad. It's, yeah, the idea that Michael Jordan was put through that tragedy.
01:19:43
tragedy like in the spotlight yes and then blamed that's disgusting it's like you're blamed for it
01:19:50
totally that's horrifying like look what you did when really it's just i don't i don't believe any
01:19:55
of the conspiracies i think it was just a fucking time and place and big coincidence but i i think
01:20:02
it was a simple a simple robbery that turned yeah you know yeah it would make sense yeah but then
01:20:09
But who knows who shot him? That's the other thing. We don't know who pulled the trigger.
01:20:15
So there's still this mystery going on. It's just sad all around. Great job. Thank you.
01:20:21
Really good. We're coming up on the two hour mark. Come on. We're not so far away.
01:20:29
You guys want a million hours. We'll give it to you next week. Yeah, really. Should we do some fucking hooray?
01:20:38
Yeah. Hey, you guys, we need you to send in more fucking hurrays. Maybe just comments on Instagram or Twitter or in the fan cult of your fucking hurrays or email them to us at My Favorite Murder.
01:20:50
And I guess they could just be things that have made you happy this week or wins that you're feeling or, you know, shout outs you want to give.
01:20:58
Just something good at the end of these horrible fucking stories that we have. Yeah.
01:21:02
So please send those in. And then if you sent them in and we haven't seen them or haven't talked about them, send them in again.
01:21:08
because we probably didn't see him. I love this one because the subject line is,
01:21:13
this is a fucking hooray, but I don't know where else to submit. So here I am lost amongst the hometown page.
01:21:19
So this must be from the fan. Yeah, that works. Hello to all the beautiful souls of MFM, both with and without pause.
01:21:28
I have only discovered this podcast fairly recently, but I've binged all episodes and I'm completely caught up.
01:21:34
Yay. Thank God I found you guys. Truly feel like I know you and that you both get me so much.
01:21:40
It's beautiful. Anyways, my fucking hooray is not only that my fiance and I both survived the coronavirus.
01:21:46
Wow. Amazing. But that we are both also celebrating 18 months sober and have truly gotten our lives back on track.
01:21:54
Shit. Oh, my God. It's incredible. Okay. Not only as a unit, but as individuals as well.
01:21:59
We have both struggled with drug addiction for the majority of our lives and have been so extremely blessed to come out alive and on the other side.
01:22:07
I know it's not all going to be a piece of cake from here on out, but I say we've already been through hell and high water so we can make it through anything, including both testing positive for Corona.
01:22:19
God bless it. It's real people. Wear your damn mask. Crazy times. crazy times we're living in and I couldn't be more thankful to have my recovery family,
01:22:29
my amazingly wonderful man, and as my fiance knows y'all, my murder girls. Love and light,
01:22:35
Eden C. Fuck, congratulations, Eden C. On like about six different fronts. Oh my God.
01:22:42
That's such lovely news all around. I'm so glad. So glad that you came through coronavirus and
01:22:50
are okay. Congratulations. The rest of your life is going to be fucking awesome now. You've done it.
01:22:56
I mean, you've really done it. You've done it and you're doing it and you're going to
01:23:00
continue to do it. 18 months of sobriety is so much. So much. Let's not be weird
01:23:08
new parents about it. Let's call 18 months a year and fucking six months. What chip is that?
01:23:15
90. Let's see. It's a big old. Do they do it by days? Yeah, so 90 days and then two years.
01:23:22
I don't know. Let's see. It's two chips minus a 20-day chip. What if they just gave you like a 90 chip?
01:23:29
They make you change in chips. Congratulations, Eden. That's the best. Yeah. And there's such a huge community online and just in Murderinos alone on Facebook and Instagram of people working towards sobriety.
01:23:43
It's great. You can find them. So much support. So many people that have found each other.
01:23:48
It's really lovely. So cool. Congratulations. Yeah. Okay. This is just goes a fucking hooray.
01:23:54
My fucking hooray for this week I had to share with you I work as a nursing assistant while going to nursing school I take care of women who have gynecological cancers This weekend while being overloaded with too many patients
01:24:06
and not enough time, I was stressed and constantly running around. One of my 14 patients asked for help in her room.
01:24:13
And I go in to help her to the bathroom and get her comfy back in bed. And while in her room, she told me she had recently had a stroke in May.
01:24:20
And I told her for someone who had a stroke, she was doing amazing with her speech and walking.
01:24:25
And she said she had one more goal she needed to achieve. And with her childlike sweetness, I'm assuming an intellectual delay from her stroke, she
01:24:32
said, quote, I need to keep working on my physical therapy with my middle finger.
01:24:37
I thought, OK, odd goal, but it's a goal. I said, your middle finger? And she replied, yes, I miss being able to flip the bird at people.
01:24:46
I don't think I had smiled so hard and so long. Then she said, quote, I usually just practice when the president's ads come on TV.
01:24:53
I try and flip the bird. I literally laughed out loud and that sweet little goal of hers changed my entire perspective for the rest of my crazy day.
01:25:02
Thank you guys for keeping me sane during such crazy times. I hope you all stay safe and healthy.
01:25:08
Remember, stay sexy. Don't hang out with murderers at your kids sporting events and wear a fucking mask in public.
01:25:15
Lauren. Yeah. Nice. Nice. Lauren. Good one, Lauren. You're doing God's work. Yeah, for real.
01:25:22
Well, here's more of that. Hi, friends. My fucking hooray is that I started a fucking hooray at work.
01:25:29
I'm a social worker in Philadelphia working in a methadone clinic. As you can imagine, our work is filled with stress, anger, fear, and heartbreak.
01:25:37
And as a black social worker, the pain has been doubled. We didn't want to keep ending our weekly meetings on a low note, so I suggested we start a fucking hooray.
01:25:46
The first one shared was from my coworker who just got engaged to his partner of eight years.
01:25:51
Oh, that's beautiful. Thank you for continuing to do the work of destigmatizing mental health and for your work towards equality. Stay sexy and be nice to your therapists. In parentheses, we're struggling to Brittany.
01:26:04
Wow. Yeah. Isn't that awesome? I love that. Oh, my God. So good. I have one more. Okay. Hello, bold women, which I love. I've never thought of myself as bold. That's awesome.
01:26:18
I have been embracing your fucking hooray messages lately, and I'm so happy to be able to share one.
01:26:25
I was diagnosed with breast cancer in August 2019, had a mastectomy in November, chemotherapy from January through April, followed by radiation therapy.
01:26:34
Holy shit. I had my last treatment this Wednesday. Fucking hooray indeed. The biggest hooray is that I have my amazing husband and daughter.
01:26:43
Hi, Emma. She's a listener who have done everything in their power to make all this nonsense bearable.
01:26:48
I honestly couldn't have done it without them. So fucking hooray for my beautiful little family.
01:26:53
Peace, Anne. Wow. I love this. It's like a medical fucking hooray session. I know.
01:27:01
It's like a yearbook of medical people. Roaring back. Yeah. I love it. Sobriety and health and healing and sassiness.
01:27:13
Yeah. Focusing on the good. Some gratitude. Yeah. Love it. Do you have a fucking cry for this week?
01:27:21
Just so my sister and I have started doing. No, wait, that's not it. You know what it is?
01:27:26
Fucking crying. It is weird and good and also not. I don't love it. It's terrible, but I know it's important and it's bringing up, you know, old reminders of crying.
01:27:39
That's not it either. It can be crying. Yeah, that's good. I did a like shower sob.
01:27:45
did you slide down the wall and then hold your face we have a bench seat so i sat on the little
01:27:52
bench and then yeah i held my face and it was like it was a kind of a thing yeah yeah it felt
01:28:02
good it felt good and then i cut all my hair off and okay my fucking array is that i my my first
01:28:09
quarantine self haircut isn't terrible. It looks great. I, to be honest, I just thought you trimmed
01:28:15
your bangs. I didn't think there was any difference. It's just another bob. It's not,
01:28:19
it's actually not the worst haircut I've ever had, which is saying a lot. So yeah. Oh, that's
01:28:25
good. I love it. All those things and more. What's yours? Well, because I just was going to say,
01:28:28
you know, for a long time, my, I would try to very quickly talk through myself crying in therapy,
01:28:35
where I didn't want to cry. So I'd be like, well, and I thought if I could just talk,
01:28:42
it would, she would kind of ignore the fact that I was crying and she would always make me stop
01:28:46
and cry separately. Plus you don't want to wait. You have 50 minutes. You don't want to waste
01:28:50
any of it crying. Yes. And I've like seven good stories. Like you need to hear this lady.
01:28:56
And she was like, hold, breathe. I'm holding it with you. It's infuriating. And it made me cry.
01:29:03
I can only, I mean, it's been so long and I can only now just, I have to stop myself and be like,
01:29:08
I know you're not going to let me power through this, but it really is because I think part of when I was younger,
01:29:15
when I would start crying, I would think, well, this is just how it's going to be from now on.
01:29:20
You know what I mean? Like I've been overtaken by this feeling and now I'm powerless to it.
01:29:25
And that would, that idea would make me crazy. And anyway, I'm so I'm such a fan now.
01:29:31
Yeah, no, I am too. I'm going to keep, keep going with it. It's bringing shit up.
01:29:35
And that's important, too. I would say that mine and this is very almost like very specific to you and I and what we've been going through lately.
01:29:45
I'm really loving the power of not saying anything at all. We've had a couple moments.
01:29:53
Exactly what you're talking about. Lately that were very key and they were important And there was a lot of pressure on us to like respond and fill the air and make other people feel better about things
01:30:08
And I would say it happened a handful of times over a matter of days. And we just sat there and it there is something to not filling the air and not letting other people off the hook
01:30:21
and not letting people be comfortable when they're demanding you do it in lots of different small ways.
01:30:26
And instead sitting in silence because it's a difficult thing to do. And it really is an incredible power move.
01:30:36
Sitting in silence without like filling the air and not apologizing, like stating your side and fact and truth without ever saying the words,
01:30:47
I'm sorry or sorry or using that as I swear to you. It's a lifelong practice. But especially lately, it's almost like I feel inside.
01:30:57
I feel taller. It's like, yeah, we have a superpower now where it's I am so used to filling the silences to get other people off the hook because I don't like awkward silences.
01:31:08
But then no one does. No. And then you learn that when you just be quiet and let other people talk, you learn a lot.
01:31:15
And it's important. And we've been going through that. And it's it's been business stuff.
01:31:19
And I think as women, yeah, we want to let people off the hook a lot. And also just as a sidebar addendum, just since it's on my mind in this moment, I would just like to say this to both you and I and anybody who's ever in this position, but I think especially women.
01:31:33
In business situations, people like to get you to talk about your feelings. They like to refer to your feelings and they like to bring your feelings up so that later your feelings are what the point is and not the facts of what you have a problem with.
01:31:51
And so I would just advise everyone to keep their eye on that, that when people start talking about, I know you're upset, I know you feel this way. You have to be sure to get in and correct and say, that's not what we're talking. Whether I'm upset or stoked, this would still be happening. We're not talking about my reaction to what's happening. We're talking about what's happening.
01:32:12
Right. I'm upset because of a fact. Not I'm not. My upsetness is not the fact. It's not it's not on. It's not what's relevant here. And we all have reactions to things.
01:32:25
And that's not we're talking about what the problems are. And that is something I got taught that a little while ago, but it's come up lately.
01:32:34
And it's really amazing how often that is, you know, in business, in lots of things, in life, in relationships, everything can be a tactic.
01:32:44
You know, it's like people don't want to be people want their way. They want to feel right.
01:32:49
They want to do whatever. And you you have to just always be your own best lawyer and make sure that people don't allow people to frame arguments in a way that then puts you in a certain light.
01:33:03
And suddenly we're all talking about what you're like, because that's not it. And I think it's a it's a trick.
01:33:10
It's a tactic, maybe. And sometimes there's people who just don't even know they're doing it.
01:33:15
It's not an awareness. It's an inherent thing that we've all. It's just the habit of, oh, the little lady's upset.
01:33:22
Right. Gals. So that's a yeah, that's another. I just want to say it now. Well, I'm proud of us.
01:33:28
I feel like we've we're getting the job done. We're badass motherfuckers. I'm proud of us
01:33:33
and someday you'll be too someday cool thank you to Stephen Ray Morris for always
01:33:43
having our business lady backs yes so much so thank you Stephen and thank you for all the work
01:33:51
Stephen right now is a one man band of podcast engineer sometime podcast producer
01:34:00
he is wearing every hat in America while he's at home in an apartment also raising a child
01:34:06
at the moment there's so much and Steven you've been killing it thank you so much
01:34:13
I know we've said it a couple times but we literally could not do this show without you
01:34:19
this network wouldn't exist as it is without you at all no not at all you're very dear to us
01:34:25
you're doing an amazing job and we really appreciate it thank you Raising a kid and a cat.
01:34:32
Thank you. Thank you guys. And we love you, Stephen. On top of all that. We do. Thank you guys for listening.
01:34:42
As always, this is the fucking coolest job and life. And it's because of you guys.
01:34:48
And we're so grateful for listening to us and connecting with us and identifying.
01:34:53
We're so grateful that you like the idea of one story a week. Thank you for that support, that unwavering and beautiful support.
01:35:01
Our mental health could last another three years on this podcast, since you guys are letting us do once a year, other than the one more year with two stories.
01:35:11
Our big once a year podcast episodes coming up. Thank you so much for supporting it.
01:35:17
No, we love you. And thank you for even giving a shit one way or the other. That's what's beautiful is people care enough to even care about it.
01:35:25
That's right. So that's a gift. we appreciate it we're we're glad to do this show for you stay sexy and don't get murdered
01:35:32
elvis do you want a cookie why is it always chaos when we link up because nobody plans
01:35:40
anything bro good thing the rogue's ready like that for real rain dirt whatever available all
01:35:46
wheel drive five modes we still outside and they got some kick too that turbo torque is crazy the
01:35:53
Most in its class, it moves moves. Rogue doesn't mess around and peep the space.
01:35:58
Merch on merch, gear. mics all the fits load up we out 2026 nissan rogue built for all of it auto pacific segmentation
01:36:07
2026 rogue versus latest in-market competitors in the x suv mainstream midsides class
01:36:13
excluding electrical vehicles based on manufacturer websites hey everyone it's cal penn i'm inviting you to join the best sounding book club you've ever heard
01:36:23
with my podcast hearsay the audible and i heart audiobook club every episode i nerd out with a
01:36:29
amazing guests and dive into the best new audio books available on audible. It's the book club for your ears.
01:36:37
Listen to your say the audible and I heart audio book club on the I heart radio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:36:48
Paramount plus is now the home of all your BET favorites. What? With all new episodes of Tyler Perry's divorce sisters.
01:36:55
You've always liked a little drama. Plus a whole new world of movies like gladiator too.
01:36:59
Now I will control an empire. Original series like The Chi. Just make sure we protect each other.
01:37:05
And live sports like UFC. Welcome to the history books. New home, same family. Your BET favorites are now on Paramount+.
01:37:14
Subscribe now.