244 - Be Nostalgic For Old Problems | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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whoa that was perfect to me that was the most perfect one to me hello and welcome to my favorite murder the podcast the true crime podcast

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that you've been listening to for a couple years. That's right. God, almost five at this point.

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Ooh. Wow. Five years. This is like the most... This is the longest I've ever had a job, for sure.

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This is going to be my second longest relationship pretty soon. Nice. Yeah. I think we've put a lot of work into it.

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I think we've made it something special. We really have. We didn't abandon it. No.

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And we wanted to at times. We didn't want to at times. like year two and a half got messy it was very difficult to do hey listen all that sounds stupid

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now in the pandemic right doesn't that sound like the dumbest fucking shit in the world absolutely

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like god nothing matters be nostalgic for old problems you used to have that used to take up

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your whole life and now you would kill for those to be your whole life problems oh man yeah this

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And then the little things, too, that you miss about your normal life. I miss eyeliner.

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I miss liquid eyeliner and putting it on and lipstick. For a reason. Yeah. Yeah.

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And like any of that stuff. Yes. Any kind of plan to meet another human being and look them in the face.

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Excitement. Uh-huh. Wonder. Truly just a deep, profound respect for your fellow man across the restaurant table from you.

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Well, when this is over, knock wood, we're all going to be different and better.

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Right? Better people. We're going to appreciate life more. We're going to live in a moment instead of having future panic and past panic.

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There's just no point. We're all on a clock. We got it. We got to maximize these moments while we can.

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Hopefully, we're all listening during this time, taking time to work on ourselves, listening to a shit ton of self-help podcast.

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Oh, I am, Georgia. You should see the ab work. I'm not doing that. It is crazy. How's that trampoline going behind you?

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It looks like it's on its back like a beetle. It does look like a dead bug. I tried to roll it out.

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The scope of my Zoom, and I hate to brag to everybody, but my Zoom picks up the entire room.

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I don't know why. The width of it is just impressive. It's not a tight shot. So I can't hide my the trampoline I used four times and really thought I was on to something.

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Sure. And then what usually happens, we could track this. Usually it's that someone comes over and I want to hide all my shit and make it look like I'm much cleaner and tidier than I actually am.

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And then things get put away and they never come back out. Oh, OK. So it's not there in front of you.

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You're just not going to use it. Yeah. I like that, too. I get that. Yeah. We'll work on it.

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We'll do it. We'll work on it. It's like it's almost Halloween, which everyone knows is a great time to refocus your energies on to...

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Perfect time to reset all the candy in your systems, your brand new candies. I've already overdone it on candy in a way that was like, I never want to.

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What kind? What did you buy? We got a bunch of the bags that have like two good candies and like two bad ones.

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You got to pay the price. That's the toll. They never have four good ones, so you can just buy one.

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And Karen, I just realized, fuck the candy talk. Did you change the haunted chair?

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Yeah. Well, Stephen made me. I mean, ask me very politely. I'm so sorry. Oh, my God.

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Karen, this whole time you've been sitting in this chair that sounds haunted when you move,

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creaking like boards of the basement, haunting. I mean, again, it is a sensitivity I have with me and chairs.

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But I will say this. Those are jury chairs from downtown Los Angeles in like the 20s or 30s.

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Look at that. Whoa. They were, I found them in some store in Silver Lake. But yeah basically in like 19 or 2001 or 2002 That cool So they are haunted with the farts of jurors from way back when Yeah old a bunch of you know middle men that look like Ernest Borgnine were the people that were on trials back then

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Guilty. We saw the play. Guilty. We know. So now I have this whisper silent folding chair that my friend Karen Anderson gave me as a housewarming present.

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That's my favorite. It's all gold. Yeah, I like it. You've seen it, right? Yeah, it's gorgeous.

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It looks like wood, but it's a padded seat. It looks like something that was in my grandma's card table room.

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Exactly. When the extra ladies came over to play cards, she'd have a chair to bring out.

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Yeah. And by that, you mean the crazy ladies? The ones that were a little bit extra?

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Oh, the best. Oh, my God. That's my favorite when I was a kid. And I'd stay with her for the summer.

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And she'd take me to the card games at her friend's house. And they'd all give me all the candy.

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And I'd look at all their tchotchkes. And it was just so much fun. candy and you take a nap because it would be very warm

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and it's smell like a grandma which I love everybody called you honey yeah I know grandma energy we could really do for some grandma

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energy in the world right now big grandma energy is what we need you know what I saw this which is the kind of the corniest of all

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social media things but my very favorite which is every year the holidays the tweet goes around of the boy

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that got the text from the lady that said, be here, whatever. And then he said, well, I'm not your grandson,

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but can I have a plate? And she said, of course, that's what grandmas do. You know, they're still doing it.

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And that boy is now married. Love them so much. He's married now with the whole family.

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He's married now to this gorgeous girl. What are they going to do about COVID? They still, well, he said they're still going this year.

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They can have a Zoom or maybe like, yeah, an outdoor social distance Christmas. It was never a big group at that family, but that it really is.

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My sister and I are talking about it. It's such a feel good, like, you know, deep down, maybe we can all get along type of thing.

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Because that lady came at that thing with such energy, like, of course you can. Just like, those are the grandmas I know.

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Treat yourself like a grandma who's nice. Like, if you have a cunti grandma, don't treat yourself like that.

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But yeah, treat yourself like you imagine a grandma is supposed to be. Yeah, if there were many grandparents and people of yore who were very damaged by coming up in this like the American make or break kind of like you're on your own from age five bullshit abuses the standard and shut up about your feelings.

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And now roll your own cigarettes because we don't have the money for pre rolled cigarettes at five.

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Yeah, you don't get any candy and you'll like it. That whole mentality. There's some people that, yeah, it's just like in our family, we would say there's the good Irish and the bad Irish.

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You can either be like the fun, drinky Irish with your arm around people like telling a story and get in here.

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Or you can be like those, the crazy, weird ones that are like secret drinkers and schizophrenic and all the crazy shit.

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Don't be, don't be the, be the good, that's another one. Be the good Irish, not the crazy Irish.

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Speaking of Irish, are you watching Fargo? I think I'm caught up. Yes. I think I'm now caught up.

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Can I say I'm kind of I know this is the whole point of Fargo, but I'm kind of over the gangster stuff.

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I just want to watch Jesse Buckley, the redheaded nurse, live her fucking life. Like, that's all I am fascinated by that character.

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I just want to watch that part of it with the neighbors. Her angel of death life.

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She's just doing whatever she wants. And the way she talks and the way she fucked Jason Schwartzman, I was just like, damn girl.

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And then when she found her closet of, I can't say, oh wait, never mind. Shit. Spoiler.

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Spoilers. I just love that. It's so good. Yeah. Yeah. The gangster stuff, I'm just like, how about you guys just get along and you can do crime together?

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I know. I know. But it's, yeah, you're right. Because it's a variation on a theme.

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So it's always kind of the same thing. But you're right. when she first, I mean, spoilers, but these ones are old, but it's like that first time

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she basically snuffed out of paper. You're just like, wait, what the fuck? Like, I thought we were getting set up to think she was Florence Nightingale.

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Totally. Totally. It's so genius. And the way she's manipulating, manipulates like the hospital, the head of the hospital

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and the way she, oh, I love it. That's the only part of like, it's pretty, it's pretty great.

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What else are you watching? Oh, yeah. I watched American Murder. Yeah. It's the Shanann Watts.

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Is it Shanann? Shanann. Yeah, Shanann Watts and their two daughters murder. It is dark.

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It's like that podcast Cold about that case in Utah where it's just there's no redeeming teeny tiny bit of anything.

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No. It's just horrendous. It's just confounding. And you're watching it on a body cam, which you go, hey, hey, body cams would be the perfect idea if we didn't let the police control them because you are there.

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But then my thing was I went through that and then I went, oh, I don't want to ever do that again.

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I don't want to sit there with the police as they begin investigating this man pretending to be upset because his wife is missing.

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And you know he's guilty. It's such You know what it is It's like hey Everybody's on this

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True crime train In their own Different compartment In their own Different way And everybody gets

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What they get out of it I get off there I don want to go that far And I don want to get that far in especially when the story is so unbelievably tragic And yeah like you saying Stark

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he lied until that female cop was like, so you're comfortable letting the public believe that your

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wife killed your girl. And he was like, like, like, he tried, he kept trying. And it was like,

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oh my god a monster he's a monster and it doesn't and it's just impossible to wrap your fucking head

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around what about the part so tons of spoilers guys obviously but what about netflix right it's

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uh american murder something about next door family next door or something yeah a family next

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door um but there was the part where the cop was in the neighbor's house and then the guy and the

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husband leaves and then he's like he never acts like this and that neighbor was onto it and just

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like spilling it the second that guy walked out it was fascinating i mean and it wasn't even like

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yeah he's not acting normal because his wife's missing he was like that's not there's something

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fishy going on it was immediate yeah he was on it was but but again like you're saying it's just

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knowing where it's going and then it's just like oh this feels it's i would say this you can still

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be a fan of true crime and all that stuff and dip out for a little while when when reality is hard

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enough already. Yes. You know what I mean? Check your check the things that are making you feel

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okay. Because that one I afterwards I was like, Nope, not doing that. No, I didn't. I didn't like

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it. I've been watching Saxon Dale to get my brain out of that realm of, you know, you know, I'm in

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love with on Saxon Dale is his assistant. Oh, my God, the best character. I love him. I want to

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spend personal time with him. He's so good. The personality of a guy that stands next to

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the fucking Saxondale and listen to his bullshit and be like, cool, all right. Oh my God. It's just such a beautiful

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nuanced show. It's Steve Coogan who like anything he does, just watch everything he's ever done. He's the best.

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It's what isn't on BBC probably or I don't know what we're watching it on. I think we're doing like, maybe it's even

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Saxondale. I bet you that's a Brit Box or an Acorn or some kind of specialty. It's definitely one you've got to search for.

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But it's just like... You've got to care. Absurd and lovely and everything. Also, his neighbor.

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This is if you are like me and a... What's it called? A Britophile? Uh-huh. Anglophile.

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Yeah, Anglophile. Jesus. That's the Britophiles that you love. Brita filters and fresh water.

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Oh, my God, I do. my water tastes so clean. I'm such a Britophile. Obviously, I'm a huge one

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since I don't know the name of it. So clearly, I'm the number one stan. Well, it's like when the hipsters don't

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call themselves hipsters, you know what I mean? Yeah, I'm so real. I'm just the realist. Anyhow,

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Saxondale's Across the Street Neighbor is this British actor named Darren Boyd, who

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if you, he is in every hilarious, like those kinds of TV shows. He's the tall, blonde, kind of dorky guy that's

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constantly just... Yes. That he's constantly basically being bullied by Saxondale. Oh, he's so funny.

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Yes, who's like in charge of the neighborhood watch. Trying to like check on stuff

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and be a cool guy. It's so good. Yeah, that's been helping us. It has a couple seasons

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too, right? Yeah, totally. Four seasons? Totally. When we watch that and after like The Vow or Fargo

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we put on Saxondale for like a palate cleanser. Yeah. Saxon Dale is hilarious. Good one. I have

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oh, I also so wait, did you just say the vow? Yeah. I don't I dipped out of the vow. It's really

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slow. It's slow and it's kind of draws on but it's but the stuff in it is still interesting. So I've stuck with it.

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Okay. It's just a little like one of those. Come on like you could have done this in the half as many

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episodes, but whatever. Make your money. I think I had to it started to feel like an acting class to me.

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It started to feel like when I used to have to take an acting class and I would just kind of sit in the back

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and just be like, everybody seemed everybody was like kind of just kind of overtly sexual and also

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on the verge of tears. You know what I mean? It was posed perfectly. And like so volunteering first, like everyone was volunteering first and trying to act like

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they were walking through honey or whatever the exercise was. And I was just always in the back like, what am I doing?

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Like, why do I even like this? So it has that tension of like those types of people that really need something.

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That was them. They're like, they're thespians. They're not actors, Karen. They're thespians.

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They're artists is what they are. artists and they can cry on command. There's some footage of the

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chick who's like, because she was in fucking Battlestar Galactica or whatever the fuck,

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Smallsville or whatever. Oh yeah, Alison Mack? She seems insufferable. Insufferable.

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Yeah. You know what it was? It was the scene between her and Keith Raniere when she first

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got taken to volleyball. and she was so hardcore flirting with him in a way. Oh my god, I don't just hug, I kiss.

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Ew! Something about that makes me want to leave my skin. I cannot withstand watching people flirt

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like that. Flirt poorly. It was like it was comfortable for everyone involved except to them And bizarre Bizarre So bizarre What were they like She was was just like she knew she it like she went in there knowing he that the first time that she knew he was the leader

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And she was like, I'm going to fucking this is going to be my thing. And I'm going to make this guy fall in love with me.

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And here's how it's fucking done. And I'm an actor. Hold my jacket. Exactly. Hold my jacket.

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Well, I go make this call leader fall in love with me. I'm going to flirt with someone who has the sexuality of an old Raggedy Andy doll.

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You know what I love is knee pads and 4 a.m. volleyball. What's up? Here it is. And a very, very high lilting voice.

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That's what I'm looking for. He's so gross. Also, honestly, because, you know, they filmed everything.

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I just and maybe it's just like because they're trying to tell this other story.

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But would it kill them just to explain what the point of any of those groups were?

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Right. Like what you actually got, what the, you know, here's the class we took.

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It's this. It said this. We were working on EMs to get us here. I do not understand how they glued this fucking ship together.

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It doesn't make sense to me. Because they keep saying like to use for our job and to get in our life.

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But it doesn't seem like they have other jobs or other lives. They're just sitting.

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And then there's like not that many people there either. So it's like, wouldn't you look around at this thing that's life changing, supposedly, and be like, well, why are there only 11 people here, though?

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Yeah. And it's like the same 11. It's like me going to a small Catholic school for junior high and high school.

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We were just like, these people again? Yeah. I can't do it anymore. Fuck. It's very, yeah, you're right.

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A lot of those people were like, I took the class. Now I'm the teacher. It's like that doesn't right there. If it's that accessible that now you're the teacher, how brilliant and genius can this program be?

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Right. You're immediately teaching it. I want I want there to be decades of work before someone can become a teacher of whatever the fuck I'm learning.

00:20:07

Hell yeah. You in my world, you would have to climb Mount Kilimanjaro. You would have to like it would be scenes from the Golden Child.

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You'd have to go into a cave and jump from pole to pole and then drink the water, make the fire go out.

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Now that I sat through two years of class and wrote down my fucking schedule every day and asked if I was allowed to eat certain foods.

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Master. Master. No fucking Vanguard. I refuse. Also, I think it's this. If it were up to me to be like right now in sixth grade, we're going to start this program where we just start telling kids how to avoid getting sucked into cults.

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just a general, like a step-by-step, almost like a dare class that you would put in,

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but now we're just doing it for cults because it seems to be coming up a lot now.

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So when you have to give people evident proof, what's it called? Collateral. Collateral for anything, get out before the collateral.

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Titpicks, get out. I mean, give them out if you want, but don't give them out as collateral.

00:21:13

No, don't get involved with anything that has the word collateral, including the Tom Cruise movie.

00:21:21

Don't. I'm saying stay away. Yeah. And then if dieting has something to do with your spiritual program.

00:21:27

It doesn't. You guys, it doesn't. Oh, my God. Speaking of cults, I have a book that I'm listening to that I fucking love that I want to tell you about.

00:21:37

So it's it's by this. It's a memoir. and it's by this guy named Mikkel Jollet. J-O-L-L-E-T.

00:21:45

Oh, yeah. I follow him on Twitter. Yeah. So he's the singer of the Airborne Toxic event

00:21:50

and he wrote a memoir and you're like, okay, beautiful man who's in a band who's super cool.

00:21:57

What's your fucking memoir? And then I started listening to it and it starts as him as a kid,

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like five years old and it starts as his mother sneaks him out of the cult that they're in and then goes from there.

00:22:12

Wait, now, was he in a different one or was he in Synanon? Yes. He was in Synanon.

00:22:19

Yes. That's the one that is out in it's in Sonoma County. That's right. Out near where I grew up.

00:22:24

Yeah. Yeah. So I want to listen to that. It's great. And it's just and then it goes from there and their lives and the mom and how she kind of

00:22:30

still has that mentality. And it's such a fucking good book. and he reads it, obviously, in the audiobook.

00:22:36

I love it. It's great. Say the title. Oh, I didn't even say the fucking title, did I?

00:22:43

It's called Hollywood Park. Hollywood Park by Mikkel Jolett. Yeah, it's great. It's great.

00:22:48

It's all very 80s, too. It's just so good. That sounds amazing. Yeah. Oh, I love that.

00:22:54

Love a cult story. Sure. Love a true story. Love a memoir. And then, yeah, it's great.

00:22:59

Lead us out of a cult. Totally. And how did you get, like, you had a fucked up childhood.

00:23:03

How did you get so successful? You know, like people like to hear that as well. Yeah, because that's the key.

00:23:08

Yeah. Fucked up. Being fucked up is the key to getting somewhere. Hey, want to be an interesting person?

00:23:14

Have a really fucked up child. Do you want to have ambition burn inside you in a way that you cannot explain?

00:23:22

Oh, well, then have kind of a fucked up child. Run and run and run from yourself and constantly try to achieve.

00:23:31

That's right. Do it. Yes. That's the fuel. You're not fucked up. You're ready to go.

00:23:37

Right. Or work against yourself for so many years by pouring the drugs and alcohol on top of

00:23:42

it because you just are too overwhelmed by that creativity. And then suddenly one day you figure it all fucking out and you become the successful person,

00:23:51

whatever that means to you. That's right. But before that happens, you have to stew in your own juices for quite some time.

00:23:59

That's right. Really, really feel fucked up. And they smell those juices. Oh, I can smell it from here.

00:24:05

That's right. So I have been listening to my go to these days is and I've already plugged this podcast, Sexy, you know, unique podcast.

00:24:15

It's Laura. I always am afraid I'm saying her last name wrong. Shane Halls, I believe.

00:24:21

And my friend Carrie O'Donnell. They just started covering their recapping season one of Rock of Love.

00:24:28

Oh, my God. The Bret Michaels dating show on VH1. We started that at the very beginning of quarantine.

00:24:34

That show. Holy shit. It is so. Yeah. They're so. The two of them talking about it is so hilarious.

00:24:42

It's again, my favorite when I don't have to actually suffer through reality TV, but I can hear about it.

00:24:47

I like that. We literally tried 10 minutes in the beginning. Let's try this again and couldn't watch it.

00:24:53

It's just so uncomfortable. But I'd listen to that. hearing people do impressions of the people

00:24:58

and the things that they said. It's a totally different thing. So yeah, if you like reality TV

00:25:04

or like recap shows or whatever, those guys. And also, I belong to their Patreon,

00:25:11

so I get bonus episodes. And just the stuff they talk about in between, you know, just processing

00:25:18

the life that we're going through right now. It's very helpful to me. I listen to them a lot in the morning.

00:25:22

It's like my, you know, they're my podcast friends. Sure. Yeah. Wait, you have other podcast friends besides me?

00:25:31

They're my they're the ones that they don't know. I'm their podcast friend. You're my literal.

00:25:35

Right. Got it. Should we do some exactly right ketchup? Let's do it. Guys, we have a big announcement in a minute. But first.

00:25:45

Oh, yeah. Good one. Tease it up. But first, we want to tell you that we have some merch going on right now so that the design.

00:25:53

design, this is terrible, keep going, was so awesome. And you guys loved it so much that we

00:25:58

put out tank tops. They're on the website now. And then we also have mugs. So it says this is

00:26:05

terrible, keep going, which is like, so perfect for these days. It's timely. And yet eternal,

00:26:14

I think you buy this shirt, and it pays off in the meantime. And then, of course, the long run

00:26:20

is entirely covered. I don't know if you can say that about just any shirt or really any

00:26:25

shirt at all, but this one. That's true. That's maybe a nice Henley. In the network, moving over to network news, this podcast will kill you. We just released

00:26:35

their season finale, season three finale on Tuesday, and they're talking all about birth

00:26:41

control. Very timely and topical. Yeah. That sounds fucking awesome. I want it. Yeah. Let those ladies walk you through some birth control info.

00:26:50

Yeah. And then also the fall line is they interviewed Monica Kason from CUE Missing Person Center about their missing person search efforts.

00:27:02

So that's just a really interesting thing for people who are into true crime and into, you know, missing person person cases.

00:27:08

I think you'll like that. Yeah, that's great. OK, big announcement. It's big announcement time now.

00:27:14

And we have been talking about waiting for this announcement for so long that it's just surreal that it's finally here.

00:27:22

I can't. I'm it's so it's a relief that it's finally here. It feels so good. You guys, we are about to announce two new podcasts that are coming to Exactly Right.

00:27:33

This first one is a podcast that's going to be hosted by our friends, Millie DiCerico and Danielle Henderson, two hilarious and very talented and very brilliant ladies.

00:27:44

Millie is the programmer on Turner Classic Movies, and she has been for the past, I think, 17 years.

00:27:52

Danielle Henderson is a TV writer. She's hosted a bunch of stuff. You also might know her because she invented the feminist Ryan Gosling meme that is one of the most genius things I've ever seen.

00:28:05

So you might know her from that as well. The two of them have gotten together, Millie and Danielle, and they have made a podcast called I Saw What You Did.

00:28:14

And it's basically a movie podcast where the two of them, every week, they basically quote unquote program a double feature for you.

00:28:25

They pick two movies. It's always a theme. So it'll be like Neighborhood Creeps or Great 70s Apartments or Hysterical Women Who Have Every Right to Be Hysterical.

00:28:37

And, um, basically, um, the two of them will watch the movie and break it down and talk about it. Millie being kind of the, the film, um, expert and Danielle being a film fan, um, and just a person that likes to watch movies. So it's really hilarious. Um, you know, they're women of color. It's just a, it's just a really cool new way, a new discussion on watching movies. And we're super, super excited to be hosting it.

00:29:04

I think it's going to be groundbreaking in some ways, you know, and it premieres on November 10th.

00:29:09

So keep an eye out for it. OK. And then the second podcast that we're going to announce today is called Tenfold More Wicked.

00:29:18

We're so freaking excited about this. Oh, my God. It's hosted by author and journalist Kate Winkler Dawson.

00:29:24

So each season, Kate's going to blend her incredible storytelling skills and her investigative journalism skills to present a new gruesome or spooky crime from the past, like pre-1930s, which is such a cool time period.

00:29:41

Later seasons are going to touch on how crimes led to the insanity defense and criminal trials or highlight why cadavers are so important in med school and how that happened.

00:29:51

So it's going to be freaking awesome. Obviously you know the fact that she both an investigative journalist and a storyteller is just going to make for an incredible podcast Yeah If you have read any of her books Kate Dawson she is an unbelievable crime historian

00:30:09

And she's written a I've read all of her books just from from knowing her from working with her.

00:30:17

And it's she's such a talented storyteller in her doing a podcast. I mean, it is. Yeah. She does amazing work.

00:30:24

and so that comes out tenfold more wicked on november 23rd and i saw what you did on november

00:30:29

10th oh my god we have two new podcasts on the network podcasts you guys were so stoked we're a

00:30:35

real boy now and there's more to come there's there's more to come on this slate but those

00:30:40

are the first two of of a new um bunch of new shows so finally you know i know we've waited so

00:30:47

long yeah you thought we were lying to you we weren't lying to you we weren't don't fucking

00:30:52

line. Not about that. Not about that. Oh, sure. True. Right. Anything else you want to touch upon

00:30:57

or, you know, feel or fondle upon? I mean, not really, because there's hasn't been that much

00:31:05

going on, except for it feels like there's a bunch going on. So there's a strange malaise,

00:31:14

like a laziness that it is going hand in hand with procrastination, or I just never feel like

00:31:21

doing anything. Nope. Never ever. Why would you? It's the, it's nothing happens. Yeah.

00:31:28

That's it. It's rough. Yeah. Stay low. Here's my, uh, my advice. If anyone wants it,

00:31:34

stay low to the ground and cool to the touch, stay out of direct sunlight, you know,

00:31:41

like all the shades, try to get pale because you might as well. Yeah. Or at least say it's okay.

00:31:51

that I'm doing it. Oh, yeah. Okay. You want to be like a cat vampire. Low to the ground. Yeah. Dark.

00:32:01

I'm just saying last night for dinner I did have a giant pretzel and there's no world where I should

00:32:07

be ordering a giant pretzel and eating it. No, it's fine to get a giant pretzel, but

00:32:11

did you have anything else is the important thing. I did have some salad. Then you're fine.

00:32:16

I'd be worried if you only. It doesn't matter. If you only had a giant pretzel, that would be worse.

00:32:21

I'm saying this pretzel could have fed a giant, the jolly green giant. It was so gigantic.

00:32:30

Yeah, but we're working on it day by day. That's right. We are. What else can we do?

00:32:35

There's really no choice in the matter that you have. We don't have choice. No. Yeah.

00:32:40

Therapy. That's so important. Do that, too. Do that. That's good. That's important.

00:32:45

My mom texts me. I love you for the first time. And it's the first time she said it in months and months.

00:32:51

Wow. So that's a positive thing. That's very good. Oh, yeah. Well, no, I'm just thinking, you know, you know what I think it was?

00:32:59

Go ahead. Sorry. Well, no, no. I'm just thinking with this swirl of how psychotic politics are getting.

00:33:05

Yeah. I think there's a lot of people who if they could just get like touch a buzzer and just be out free and clear, they would be.

00:33:13

Oh, you know what? They're in so far. That's right. That's so funny that you equated it with that because I did, too.

00:33:20

I saw that. She wrote, I love you and miss you because we're not really speaking.

00:33:23

And I thought, oh, man, I bet I thought to myself, how on earth did she in her Jewish mind make proud boys stand back and stand by?

00:33:36

OK. Yes. And in my mind, I'm like, she couldn't. I love you and miss you is an opening of a door.

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00:36:59

Goodbye. I realized this week that I had a heavy hitter. And once I got to page nine on my story

00:37:08

and had more to talk about, I was like, listen, Karen, I'll go this week if you want. And you

00:37:14

go next week. How about it? And I was like, and I need, I need a week to learn how to roller skate.

00:37:22

So next week, that's right. You can really seize your time as you will not do as I did not do

00:37:29

having nine pages in a story. It just brought me so back to tour. Like, I think I'm having a thing

00:37:35

now where like, now the memories of touring are so sweet and golden and wonderful. And everyone

00:37:42

One I think of is like, remember that fucking hotel in Toronto that was, I think, Japanese themed.

00:37:49

It was unbelievable hotel. The one I just left. The one I missed our fucking call time in because I was sick.

00:37:56

Yeah. Yes, it was gorgeous. That's right. It was unbelievable. But they're typing up my story and going to do the insert page number and being like nine, like where we would say to each other.

00:38:08

And you had said to me before, like, can you not do like a story that long where I'm like, I know, I'm sorry.

00:38:15

And you try to cut it down. But what do you take out? Yeah, because you're like, I'm just trying to get the good story going.

00:38:22

But it happens because then, you know, then I do stuff like show you old men with tomato plants and stuff like that.

00:38:29

Which I'm like, don't take that out. Take something else out. Take out the horrible facts of humanity and what people do to each other.

00:38:38

Old man with tomato pants. So this has become 11 pages with 16 font. Perfect. In Georgia font, of course, because that's my thing.

00:38:49

Hey, so because this is an important story and maybe people haven't heard about it because it takes place in Australia.

00:38:56

So I've been following this case for a couple of years now because it's been a cold case, which, you know, I'm obsessed with.

00:39:01

it's been going on for over 20 years and I wanted to wait until there was a resolution which a

00:39:09

couple years ago something happened and this last month in September finally there's kind of been a

00:39:14

resolution oh wow so it's it's no longer a cold case so uh it's like it's Perth's it so it takes

00:39:20

place in Perth in Australia it's kind of like their golden state killer or BTK where it just

00:39:25

completely changed the area and how people live their lives and you know raise their children it

00:39:30

It just it shook everyone up. We got yelled at by a lot of people when we were on tour in Australia for not going to Perth.

00:39:37

A hundred percent. There were people who drove from Perth. They were mad. They were like, look, it's a stop.

00:39:44

You're supposed to go to Perth. You can't drive to Perth. I don't I don't know. Yeah.

00:39:49

Let me I'll tell you all about it. This is the Claremont serial killer. Oh, wow.

00:39:54

Oh, yes. OK. Amazing. OK. Yes. I you don't know how many times I said to Jay, please don't let Karen do the Claremont serial killer.

00:40:00

I've been working on it. I've been like, I had docs and shit. I was like, don't let her do it.

00:40:04

It's mine. You text him once a month, every month on the first. I was like, fine,

00:40:10

it's hers. Don't fucking suggest it to her, please. He promised me. So finally going to do it.

00:40:16

I got information from w a today.com. There's an article by Heather McNeil, Nusa news by Angie Raphael,

00:40:24

news.com.au by Candace Sutton. There's a Claremont, the trial podcast or a whole Claremont series podcast you can listen to. ABC, Australia,

00:40:38

Andrea Mays and Seven News in Australia, an article by Duncan McNabb. And there's these,

00:40:45

there's so many great journalists that have been following this for, you know, decades. And so

00:40:50

there's a lot to read about it. So let me tell you about Claremont. Perth is the capital of

00:40:55

Western Australia and it has a population of almost 2 million people. It's so it is the most isolated city in the world.

00:41:04

Is it really? Yeah. Which is why we didn't go there. Me say and me saying driving, they would have had to have flown.

00:41:10

They would have. They would have driven through the Australian outback, like fucking kangaroos and shit and

00:41:17

fucking brush land. Like, I don't know. Fucking red dirt and kangaroos, bitch. Are you ready?

00:41:24

I'm sure they hate me for saying that. But it's just that one part. Yeah, it's teeny tiny.

00:41:30

It takes five hours to fly there. It's the most isolated city in the world. It's got the Indian Ocean on one side and the Australian Outback on the other.

00:41:38

It's really cool. If you look at it on a map and start zooming out, it's like if Los Angeles was here,

00:41:48

it's basically Los Angeles to Houston to get to Adelaide. So the next big city is Adelaide.

00:41:54

and it a 30 drive Okay sorry So that how isolated it is Can I just say what if you lived in Perth Wait what What if you lived in Perth

00:42:06

This might be what I do when I retire. Because you know I really genuinely really loved Australia

00:42:12

in a very deep spiritual way. Yeah, I wrote, it's a beautiful fucking city and I wrote,

00:42:17

there's a chance I might move there on November 4th, as a matter of fact. Will they take us?

00:42:22

I hope they take us. Will they take us? Because Canada won't take us anymore. Can someone speak to the mayor of Perth?

00:42:26

Please. We're really fond of parties. I was just thinking it would be fun to move to a house that's right on the edge of the outback.

00:42:34

So you're the place, the first place that the man dying of thirst crawls to out of the outback.

00:42:41

If he does make it at all, he's knocking on your door first. Just to be there for the stories.

00:42:46

That's a good one. So it's L.A. to Houston, basically. Its sister cities are Houston, as a matter of fact, and San Diego.

00:42:53

So you can imagine it's a beautiful place. Some of the most expensive houses in Australia are in Perth.

00:43:01

I think it's kind of like a secret famous person place to go because Australians don't give a shit that you're like, oh, there's a famous person.

00:43:08

Who cares? Like, that's kind of where they go to just live their lives. You know what they do, Australians?

00:43:13

They'll even if you're a famous person, they'll tell you to throw a shrimp on the Barbie to your face.

00:43:19

They don't give a shit. They're very casual people. There's a nation. So it's super isolated. And Claremont is a suburb of Perth. It's located on

00:43:28

the north bank of the Swan River. It's really charming and upscale. The main district of

00:43:35

Claremont is known as an affluent local hub. So it has a bunch of cute boutiques,

00:43:40

like think Beverly Hills boutiques and restaurants and pubs and bars. And it's like

00:43:44

the young nightlife scene, but it's, you know, upscale. So it's, it's kind of a lovely little

00:43:49

place. It's safe. It's a close knit community. Australian reporter Alison Fan describes it as

00:43:55

the heart of the gold triangle of Western suburbs. Basically, it's the kind of place where you don't

00:44:01

expect anything bad to happen. Of course, that is until the mid 90s within a span of 15 months,

00:44:07

when three young women mysteriously disappear right off the street. So 18, 18 year old Sarah

00:44:14

Spears is the first to disappear. So she had moved to Perth after finishing high school nearby.

00:44:19

She goes to secretarial school. She gets a job as a receptionist. Like all of these stories go, she's lovely.

00:44:27

She makes friends easily. She's close with her family. She's responsible. She is very comfortable in her new city life.

00:44:35

She lives with her sister. And her dad describes her as the type of person who met everyone with a glow.

00:44:41

And friends said she was just filled with laughter. On the night of January 27, 1996, she's out with her friends visiting the clubs.

00:44:49

and she leaves Club Bayview at the center of Claremont at around 2 a.m. by herself.

00:44:55

At 2.06 a.m., she calls a taxi from the public phone booth, and there's a recording of her calling the taxi.

00:45:03

And she's seen waiting alone by three eyewitnesses who also mentioned seeing an unidentified car stopping where she's waiting.

00:45:11

And then when the taxi arrives at 2.09 a.m., she's gone. She's not there. So by the next day, her disappearance automatically alarms friends and family who know she's responsible and reliable, wouldn't just take off.

00:45:25

So even though there was usually a waiting period for missing people to be taken seriously, her friends and family kind of made it happen because they were so freaked out.

00:45:36

So there's a massive, massive public attention immediately. Her friends hand out missing posters all over Claremont, and it becomes a major investigation because of her family and friends.

00:45:47

They pass out 20,000 flyers. There's 2,000 posters all over Perth. 50 buses have her picture on them, a missing persons flyer.

00:45:58

Like you couldn't go anywhere and not see her face. So people knew about it immediately.

00:46:03

The task force is set up within 48 hours to look into her case, but there's really no evidence.

00:46:08

Like no one saw her disappear. And so the trail goes cold. So it was in January.

00:46:16

So then we get to June, June 6, 1996. 23-year-old Jane Rimmer is with friends for a night out in Claremont, the same area.

00:46:26

She's described as bubbly and funny. She's really genuine and she's really easy to get along with.

00:46:31

All the pictures of these women are just, you'd be friends with all of them, you know?

00:46:35

Right. And she is a live-in nanny, and the two young children, she and Annies, adore her.

00:46:40

She's friends with the mother, even though there's a big age difference. She's just a really easy-to-get-along-with person.

00:46:46

And in fact, the mother had spoken to her. They talked on the phone for like four hours a couple days before, and even discussed the disappearance of Sarah Spears.

00:46:56

So Jane's friends tell the police that they had hit a couple different night spots, including Club Bayview, where Sarah had last hung out.

00:47:04

And there's a long line at one of the clubs. So Jane's friends decide to take a taxi home,

00:47:08

but Jane wants to stay behind. CCTV had been installed in Claremont after Sarah had disappeared.

00:47:15

And it actually caught footage of Jane standing outside this club called the Continental at 12.04

00:47:22

AM. So it's like busy. There's people hanging out outside and smoking and like lively. It's not like

00:47:29

it's a desolate area. She seems like she's waiting for someone like maybe a taxi. She's

00:47:35

leaning on a pole. She's laughing. The camera catches her talking to an unknown man. She's

00:47:41

just laughing with him. It pans away. And when it pans back, she's fucking gone. 55 days later,

00:47:49

and actually, sorry, that CCTV footage isn't released until 2008. What? Because they wanted to keep...

00:48:00

I don't know. They wanted to keep things under wraps. They sent it to NASA to try to get more foot, more information, and they couldn't.

00:48:09

And they just kept it under wraps, which is weird. So 55 days later, on August 3rd, a family's out for the day in the bushland of Wellard, about 25 miles south of Claremont.

00:48:21

So the mother, she's looking at these what are called death lilies. She sees the biggest one she's ever seen.

00:48:29

And so she kind of walks through the brush to look at it. And she feels something brushing the back of her leg.

00:48:35

This feels like fate in a weird, creepy way. She turns to see what she was feeling.

00:48:44

And she sees a tiny foot sticking out of some brush. And she had found the naked body of Jane hidden under some brush.

00:48:55

Whoa. Yeah. Yeah. What are the odds? That's crazy. It's just creepy. It's sad. Her remains were too decomposed to confirm a cause of death.

00:49:04

But an autopsy does show that she had a prominent injury on her neck that's consistent with a knife wound.

00:49:10

So it's reported to the media that a pop. OK, so then the same day on a road less than a mile from where the where Jane's body was found, they the investigators find a pocket knife and it had a telecom logo on it.

00:49:24

So telecom, which I'm going to call it turns into this company called Telstra. So I'm going to call it that from now on.

00:49:30

So Telstra is Australia's largest telecommunications company, basically like AT&T or Verizon, like phone lines, Internet.

00:49:38

They do all that shit. So the knife was issued as standard equipment to Telstra workers.

00:49:45

What the fuck is it doing out in the middle of nowhere? So several witnesses who live in the area tell detectives they heard a woman screaming and shouting the night Jane went missing.

00:49:56

I know. like what called it what uh one man says he heard a woman screaming quote leave me alone

00:50:02

let me out of here and sees a car drive away in the direction of the spot where jane's body was

00:50:08

found another couple closer to the crime scene remember blood curdling cries that stopped mid

00:50:14

mid scream oh guys what the fuck i mean do you call the police at that moment they didn't call

00:50:21

it in? No, I don't think so. It was discovered after the... Yeah. So you don't want to be an

00:50:26

alarmist, but those sound like reasons to call the police. Might as well. Just to check it out.

00:50:33

Right. Right. Yeah. Just to make sure you're right in not freaking out. Exactly. Then it turns out

00:50:39

that on the night that Sarah Spears had gone missing, witnesses had also heard blood-curdling

00:50:44

screams less than five miles away in the Mossman Park area between 2.30 a.m. and 3 a.m., which were,

00:50:52

quote, consistent with a female in distress. But remember, Sarah hadn't been found. Her body hasn't

00:50:57

been found. But it was in that area. So one of the witnesses who heard the screams said that when

00:51:04

they looked in the direction of the screams, they saw a white or cream colored car that was parked

00:51:09

on the wrong side of the street. And the screams were heard only about 20 minutes after Sarah was

00:51:13

last spotted outside the club, seemingly waiting for a taxi. So after Jane Rimmer's body is found,

00:51:20

Western Australian police launched what they call the macro task force to investigate the

00:51:24

disappearance of both Jane and Sarah. And there's massive publicity in this city where women are

00:51:31

normally relatively safe. And then I was thinking about like, well, why don't leave a bar alone and

00:51:37

that sort of thing. But it seems like it was a bustling area that they were in. And they I've

00:51:42

walked home a million fucking times. And like, yeah, you think about walking home from bars in

00:51:47

like Silver Lake is probably more dangerous than walking home from a bar in this area.

00:51:52

Right. And it's like, it's my it's I'm familiar. This is my neighborhood. Why would I feel unsafe

00:51:58

in my neighborhood? You don't even consider and there's people that that's a bummer. The thing

00:52:03

that is very sinister and upsetting to me is people being around people disappearing when

00:52:08

there's a group of people around is very scary. Definitely. And very like, you know, because that

00:52:14

means some they were targeted, they were targeted. And the person who took them has no fear,

00:52:19

too. Yeah. And then I was thinking a plan. Yeah. When I'm drinking, I kind of like get giddy. And

00:52:25

I'm like, I'm just gonna walk home and listen to music. And I feel I'm happier. And so I'm just like,

00:52:30

I'm just gonna walk, you know, it's just such a normal thing to do. Then nine months later,

00:52:35

In the early morning hours of March 15th, 1997, Sierra Glennon, a 27-year-old from Mossman Park, also disappeared from the Claremont area.

00:52:45

Sierra was a lawyer and spoke fluent Japanese, so very smart. She had come home to Perth after a year of backpacking overseas.

00:52:55

She came back to be a bridesmaid in her sister's wedding that was happening in a week and to return to her job at a law firm.

00:53:01

Like Sarah and Jane, she's out with friends and heading to the Continental Nightclub when she decides to make her way home.

00:53:09

She kind of hadn't wanted to go out that night. She did anyway. So she leaves her friends early.

00:53:14

So there's three men at a bus stop. They see Ciara walking south along Sterling Highway at around 1230 a.m.

00:53:23

And I don't think this is like a desolate highway. I feel like it's almost like Wilshire Boulevard where it's just like a main street, you know?

00:53:30

Right. So they see her interacting with someone in a light colored vehicle that had stopped for her.

00:53:36

And then she disappeared. And so those witnesses, they become known as the Burger Boys.

00:53:44

It's these three dudes, Troy Bond, Frank McElroy and Brandon Gray. They're sitting together at a bus stop eating burgers.

00:53:50

and they had noticed a newer model Holden Commodore station wagon which looks like an 80s Volvo or Honda station wagon type of thing They see it pull up alongside a woman But they didn see her

00:54:06

They see her talking to the driver through the window, but they didn't continue to watch

00:54:09

to see if she got in. Although another witness says he did see her get in the car.

00:54:14

Then she disappears. Ciara is described as a strong in spirit and courageous. And so her father tells reporters that his daughter is a fighter and she's going to fight

00:54:23

whoever took her. But sadly, 19 days later, on April 3rd, her semi clothed body is found by a bushwalker who's out looking for marijuana.

00:54:34

And having been she had been discarded about 25 miles north of Claremont. And the cause of death is noted as being consistent with a neck injury.

00:54:43

So we later find out that it looks like, you know, knife wounds to the neck. Same MO.

00:54:47

Yeah. And they're also placed in the exact same way, except mirror images with like their arm up.

00:54:54

And, you know, during the autopsy, it's discovered that Ciara had indeed fought back.

00:55:00

In fact, she had fought her killer so hard that one of her thumbnails is partially torn off and she has her attacker's DNA under her fingernails.

00:55:10

Nice. Yes. But of course, it's too early. You know, it's 97. There's no real testing on DNA at that point.

00:55:17

So after the disappearance of Jane Rimmer, the Western Australian police had set up the macro task force and to look into the two similar cases, they kind of knew automatically that they're all related.

00:55:29

When CR disappears as well, police confirm that they're searching for a serial killer and the Western Australian government offers a $250,000 reward, which is the largest ever offered in the state at the time.

00:55:42

Wow. They say the serial killer has a pervert victim profile, a young woman between 18 and 27 with small build, fair complexion, intoxicated and alone.

00:55:54

And it does seem that they and I don't know if all of them, but some witnesses said that they did seem intoxicated, which is, you know, it's just like they're so targeted at that point.

00:56:05

It's so awful. Yeah. Yeah. So this case becomes fucking huge. It grabs a ton of public attention.

00:56:12

It's basically like Ted Bundy level attention after the Florida Chi Omega murders.

00:56:17

You know, the whole town is fucking terrified or the BTK, like basically that someone among us in our small community is committing these horrendous acts and people are terrified.

00:56:29

So Detective Inspector Paul Ferguson leads the inquiry and he has more than 100 investigators on the case.

00:56:35

There are several leads, but the strongest is the CCTV footage of Jane Rimmer and the unidentified man.

00:56:42

It's sent to NASA. You know, there's nothing they can't enhance it in any way. And it's released in 2008 because police feared that releasing it would have hindered the investigation.

00:56:52

But it's like, maybe someone will recognize the way that person is standing or walking.

00:56:57

You know, it's just you never fucking know. Yeah. It makes me think, though, those it's when it happens in a place where it never happens, when it happens in a place where people always say it could never happen here.

00:57:09

the investigation unless they call people in right away, which people are learning to do now.

00:57:15

But oftentimes it's that it's that decision making. Yeah, they've been criticized a lot

00:57:22

about about the investigation. And it's partly because they kept so much secret,

00:57:27

you know, and they kept so much to themselves that people didn't think they were actually doing

00:57:31

anything. And in some cases, you know, maybe they weren't following through as well as they should

00:57:36

have and maybe the public's help could have done something. But in others, it's just, you know,

00:57:41

they were keeping everything really under wraps. The man in the video is never identified. No

00:57:46

evidence is found to link him. And police also use a woman to reenact Ciara Glennon's night.

00:57:54

So they basically dress her in what she was wearing. Exactly. A woman who looks like her

00:57:58

has her walk the same path and go to the same bars, but nothing pans out. The initial focus

00:58:04

of the investigation centers on the unidentified vehicles seen at the two locations.

00:58:09

And also, so basically, I think what we were all thinking is taxi drivers. It's got to be some taxi drivers, some fake taxi.

00:58:18

You know, I think everyone's independent, some kind of independent cab thing of like,

00:58:22

it's just me and my guy. Exactly. This weird sign. Yeah, totally. Which I've fucking gotten in those before.

00:58:28

Like I've gotten in one of those, those like every time I'm at a JFK in New York.

00:58:33

you just do it who cares it's new york there's a million of them you wave your arm out in the

00:58:39

middle of the street and you get in whatever fucking car stops for you you know yeah you

00:58:42

just get in you just want to get inside to get up the street that's right yeah you know they're 10

00:58:46

minutes away from home they're intoxicated you everyone gets in a taxi it's normal it's safe

00:58:51

and if they have the thing to do is to get in the taxi it's the smart it's the smart choice to make

00:58:56

also it's that idea of somebody sitting in a in a car with some kind of like a dispatch radio or

00:59:05

some kind of a spying on thing where if they hear that it got the call goes out they go but but

00:59:11

that's just like this could this could also be me listening to other podcasts about this but that's

00:59:17

my that's what it makes it leads me to think about that's a really interesting one wow um like

00:59:23

Someone who got fired, they couldn't be a cab driver anymore. Right. Because they attacked some other young woman.

00:59:30

You are not far. Oh. You're parallel. Okay. But you're not. Yeah. It's the mayor.

00:59:40

Fuck, Karen. Why'd you ruin this for me? Okay. So taxi drivers, of course. So thousands of taxi drivers licensed in Western Australia are fingerprinted and DNA tested,

00:59:50

which was really expensive at the time. So they actually, the investigators were criticized for that as well.

00:59:55

They find 78 drivers with significant criminal histories And because of this it doesn lead them to the killer but standards for eligibility for taxi drivers are raised

01:00:07

Good. Yeah, great. And these 78 drivers are delicensed. And there's stricter standards applied to verify that decommissioned taxis are properly stripped of official insignia and equipment.

01:00:21

Great. Sorry, can I just say this? Yeah. What we should be saying, though, about and whoever is in charge, because this might not be the police, but the fact that the one young woman went missing and they put up CCTV cameras the next day, that is how things should work.

01:00:39

You know what I mean? If something happens and while they're doing all this other stuff, it's like now what would have been different to make this better and like not so horrible cameras and then just getting it done.

01:00:50

Yeah, that's impressive. Totally. They did that that quickly and that they then did this investigation and like found, you know, all the while they were like, yeah, at least they had something going on that was positive.

01:01:03

And getting the DNA tested, even though it's expensive and it's not normal at the time, they still did it.

01:01:08

So they had it on hand in case in the future something was able to match it, you know?

01:01:13

Yeah. So though the murders had stopped at this point, over the years, the MACRO task force is met with both praise and criticism for its handling of the case. A lot of information is suppressed from the public. So one of the controversial tactics that MACRO used was sending questionnaires to over 110 persons of interest that included questions like, are you the killer? So, yeah.

01:01:40

Really? They also relied heavily on international experts. They had a lie detector machine imported from another country. And this might be the most controversial of them all. One task force officer attempted to offer. Sorry, one task force officer accepted an offer from convicted serial killer, David Burney, to insist in the investigation. So David Burney, he's from Perth as well.

01:02:09

I think I did him I did it in episode 94 it's the Morehouse murders remember there was that Hounds of Love movie

01:02:18

that I talked about that had like portrayed it that was so fucking creepy and it was him and his wife kidnapping

01:02:23

women and then burying them yeah so that one was fucking dark and so they went to this

01:02:29

monster in the same way remember when Ted Bundy was like offering to help them solve shit and you're like

01:02:36

sit down motherfucker well and yeah and what can they offer what can they what can he offer to help you know thoughts

01:02:44

thoughts and feelings i don't know they have nothing to do in jail but unless they know the

01:02:49

person or they know the area they know that that would be a different thing but was this guy just

01:02:55

like here's my theories yeah here's how this person probably works here's what his mind is

01:02:59

like here's what kind of person he is here's what you know but which if they already have a profile

01:03:05

of this person, then they don't really need that guy. They have actually professional people doing it, not a fucking serial killer.

01:03:12

Yeah, it's not. This isn't Silence of the Lambs. And you're not Dr. Hannibal Lecter that actually was an expert in this before he.

01:03:19

Right. And knew some people. The killer, too. Right. Yeah. Yeah. OK. So. Good point.

01:03:26

Yes. Right. That's right. He was a patient. Yeah. He was the boyfriend of a patient.

01:03:31

That's right. How dare you school me? I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. Well, you're right.

01:03:37

No, you're 100% right. What was the patient's name? They went in his garage and it was so creepy.

01:03:43

I know. Not Bob. Was it Bob? He gave him the fake name? Bob. Yes. That's Hannibal.

01:03:49

No. Bob was the name of. The fake name of the boyfriend. Buffalo Bill was the boyfriend.

01:03:57

Yeah. So that's Bob. Because he gave a fake name. And then the boyfriend's name is the patient.

01:04:04

Steven, anything for us? Do we send that to you? That character's not listed on Wikipedia.

01:04:10

I have to run time, baby. Well, that's bullshit. Hold on a second. Thank you for being honest.

01:04:14

He says it. He says it in the scene before she goes to yourself, yourself storage.

01:04:22

Look inside yourself storage. Maybe take a bunch of that out, Steven. Yeah, yeah.

01:04:28

I think so. Not all of it. Not all of it. Classic. Speaking of profile, due to the nature of the killings, experts suggest that the Claremont killer was probably a single white male, 25 to 35, lived in the area, appeared trustworthy, organized, social, and probably well educated.

01:04:49

Detective Dan Capwarn replaces Ferguson as the case leader and finds the first suspect in the killings, a man named Lance Williams.

01:04:59

So Lance Williams is a 41 year old public servant. He lives with his parents at Caudisloe, which is close to the hotel where both Spears and Rimmer had spent some of their evening on the night they disappeared.

01:05:13

But it seems like his biggest fault is that he seems to become obsessed with the case, you know, which is always a red fucking flag.

01:05:21

He even occasionally drives around Claremont late at night to conduct his own mini investigation into the murders, he says.

01:05:29

And he even offers women, women rides home, he says, because he's worried about them.

01:05:37

um so one time he circles the area more than 30 times and of course this raises red flags for the

01:05:44

investigators and they have a young female officer dress up for the night for a night out

01:05:48

and um act you know act as bait and he does offer the undercover officer a lift and he immediately arrested so on february 5th 1998 he questioned for like 12 to 17 hours it seems and then released And he remains the chief suspect for the most of the next decade

01:06:07

and is placed under intense scrutiny with police. They openly follow him and to and from work

01:06:16

every day for years. His family home is raided a few times. Listening devices are installed in his

01:06:22

office one of one one which once crashed through the ceiling onto his desk because they were the

01:06:30

cops were spying on him trying to find out if he was the guy yep and so in his office they think

01:06:35

he's going to admit to it somehow and so they put a recording device in there and it fucking

01:06:39

was too heavy and fell through the ceiling onto his desk oh my god um he maintains his innocence

01:06:46

there's his innocence during the six different interviews he has with police but the public

01:06:51

finds out his identity. So they also fucking go after him as well. Of course. The thing is,

01:06:59

he wasn't lying. He was obsessed with the case. And he did want to make sure women got

01:07:03

got home safe. He's finally declared no longer a person of interest in 2009. Oh, wow. He didn't fucking do it. And detective, he's a weirdo, but he didn't do it. Detective

01:07:15

cap horn. We're all weirdos. But I think, yeah, but I think the difference, that difference of,

01:07:24

and it almost feels like there's a, there's a naivete to it of going and offering people

01:07:30

rides home puts you squarely in an area you should not be in if you're a dude. Well, they were right to suspect him and, and interview him and keep an eye and keep him in

01:07:44

as a suspect if they couldn't rule him out. But Detective Caporn is criticized for having tunnel

01:07:51

vision when it came to him as a suspect and just focusing on him. And Lance William dies in 2018

01:07:57

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01:10:49

Goodbye. so all right well it turns out that the reason lance was no longer a person of interest in 2009

01:10:58

is because that year forensic scientists are finally able to properly test the dna that had

01:11:04

been found under ciara glennon's fingernails and they recover an unknown male's dna profile and it

01:11:10

i mean it went they went through so much they don't get into about how they were able to extract

01:11:14

DNA. And it's these incredible scientists who painstakingly like fucking made sure that they

01:11:20

they really wanted to solve this case. So when they compared that DNA to the DNA of other sexual

01:11:28

assault cases in the area, they matched another unknown male's DNA from an unsolved abduction and

01:11:34

rape that had occurred in 1995. It was a year before the string of murders began. So in that

01:11:41

case, a 17-year-old girl is walking home after a night out in the same Claremont venue, from

01:11:48

the same Claremont venue where Sarah Spears would later leave a year later. And she had been grabbed

01:11:53

from behind, bound and gagged, and then put into a van. And she was driven to a cemetery and

01:12:00

She's fucking dragged through the dark. She's raped twice. It's brutal, right? The whole time she's like thinking she's going to die.

01:12:08

She purposely doesn't look at him in the face, thinking maybe that'll give her a chance to live if she doesn't see his face.

01:12:14

And amazingly, he leaves her alive, but obviously very fucking wounded. And it's so awful.

01:12:25

So she survives the assault. She goes straight to a nearby hospital where her rapist's DNA is recovered.

01:12:31

And they're also able to find fibers from this case that are also on Jane and Ciara, which are rare microscopic blue polyester fibers, as well as fibers that match what would have been in a Holden Commodore station wagon.

01:12:46

Oh, right. But again, it doesn't lead to a suspect. So they have a way to match all these cases and like maybe they'll get more information.

01:12:53

You know, they have more information, but they still don't have a person. that, you know, it's all unknown male DNA. So it doesn't lead to a suspect, nor does the report by

01:13:01

a security guard who saw a Telstra van leaving the area when the 17 year old girl had been raped at

01:13:09

around 4am. Detectives do request a list of Telstra employees, remember that knife that was found at

01:13:15

the crime scene? Yeah, who were assigned vans. But that doesn't lead them anywhere either. They

01:13:21

they check it and can't find anyone of interest. So years go by until investigators decide to go

01:13:28

through old evidence boxes from other similar crimes in the nearby area and test those for DNA.

01:13:34

So that leads to an evidence box that had just been hanging out from an unsolved 1988

01:13:41

Huntingondale sexual assault case. So in 1988, there's a series of prowler incidents in the

01:13:49

Huntingondale area, which is about 30 minutes from Claremont, and they were dubbed the Huntington

01:13:53

Prowler. So there were reports of women's intimates being stolen from clotheslines,

01:13:59

as well as a peeping Tom and someone trying to break into houses. So residents claim to have

01:14:05

seen a figure wearing 90s, women's 90s dressing gowns, and on one occasion, a pair of women's

01:14:11

underpants over his head. So he, you know, it's kind of like Golden State Killer, where he's just

01:14:17

like he steals it and then he puts it on in some way. Yeah. And it seems like he wants people to see him in it almost.

01:14:24

Oh, like that when he leaves, he runs out and that's what he's got on his head. Yeah.

01:14:29

Wherever. Yeah. Wow. Something like that. And so then in February of 1988, an unidentified man breaks into the home, into a home and

01:14:38

attempts to sexually assault a sleeping 18 year old girl. but she's able to fight him off.

01:14:44

And that attacker runs off and leaves behind. He had been wearing a silk kimono that seems like he had taken off a clothesline

01:14:51

and that's left behind and that has a semen stain on it. So in that evidence box, they find that.

01:14:58

It sits in the evidence box for 28 years. Whoa. Until finally they're able to test the DNA on it

01:15:05

and it matches the other unknown male DNA from all those cases. but still they don't know who the huntingdale prowler was so they still just have a connection

01:15:15

with all the cases but no identity of a killer but man that so insane this this net is widening of

01:15:24

of what this guy's been doing and where he's been doing it and it's got to feel like you're so

01:15:29

close you're so close you find one more case that matches and you're like well we got to find it this

01:15:35

you know, it's still it's got to be so frustrating. Yeah. So what finally ties it all together or

01:15:40

finally leads to what ties it all together isn't DNA, but fingerprints. So during a separate

01:15:46

Huntington Prowler break in, the attacker had left behind his fingerprints and palm print on a

01:15:51

sliding door. And those prints are finally run through the system when they're looking through

01:15:57

old evidence boxes, and a match is found. So it's found to this case where there is a known

01:16:05

attacker. So it's in a recent interview with 60 Minutes, a woman named Wendy Davis. She's now in

01:16:13

her 70s. She was a mother of three and a social worker in 1990. And she, oh my God, it's just such

01:16:20

a heart-wrenching, moving interview. This woman is incredible. She was a social worker working at

01:16:27

her desk at Hollywood Hospital about 30 minutes from Huntingtondale in 1990 when a man comes into

01:16:34

her office and asks if he can use the restroom that's right by her desk. And she glances at the

01:16:39

man and like waves him in to use the bathroom, like go ahead, not thinking much of it since

01:16:44

the man is wearing a uniform of the telecommunications company that's working on the

01:16:49

hospital's phone lines that week. So she allows him to use the bathroom without much thought.

01:16:56

But pretty quickly, he comes out, grabs her from behind, puts a rag over her mouth and fucking

01:17:03

and he yanks her out of her chair and starts pulling her into the bathroom. And she's like, I don't want to die.

01:17:10

Like, freaks out. I don't want to die. She starts fucking fighting back. I mean, she tells this whole story in the 60 minutes.

01:17:16

I think it's an Australian one, so you have to find it online. But she starts kicking and fighting.

01:17:21

She's able to turn herself around and starts fucking wailing on his shins with her fucking high heels.

01:17:27

And so he stops. And she says just as suddenly as the attack started, it stops. And she says the man seems to come out of a trance almost and starts to apologize.

01:17:38

And he's held down until police arrive. And on him, they find cable ties in his pocket.

01:17:44

And the man is a 21 year old Telstra employee named Bradley Robert Edwards. And somehow he is only charged with common assault It called Mm hmm So and they say in the 60 minutes that you can get a charge of common assault by like yelling a curse word across the street at someone It just

01:18:05

Oh, it's there's, they don't acknowledge the sexual motivation of the attack. You know,

01:18:10

they, it's not attempted rape or attempted kidnapping or, you know, her free will being attack.

01:18:16

It's none of that. He only gets two years probation. He doesn't even get fired from his fucking job at Telstra.

01:18:22

Right. Oh Jesus. Despite attacking a woman on the job, he does. On the job. On the job.

01:18:28

Instead, a supervisor goes to speak with the victim and tries to assure her that Edwards is a good kid who's just under a ton of stress.

01:18:37

Ew, no. So, yeah. So, okay. Finally, though, this leads to the killer. In December 2016, the prints from the Huntingdale Prowler incident are tested and they match the prints to the Hollywood Hospital case belonging to Bradley Robert Edwards.

01:18:57

So they finally have a suspect, but they still need his DNA to match the DNA of the unknown killer.

01:19:04

So, all right, who is this asshole? Well, it turns out that he's still working for Telstra.

01:19:10

He had enjoyed a good career, pay raises, you know, all this shit, moved up in ranks with the company.

01:19:17

He's 46 years old. He's tall and like a large, well-built man with dark hair. He looks like a normal dad, this fucking piece of shit.

01:19:28

He's got like cropped hair, clean cut, polo shirts. You wouldn't think twice. Yeah, because he's hiding in plain sight.

01:19:38

He's totally unassuming. They don't look like monsters. The monsters don't look like monsters.

01:19:42

He's an unassuming dude. He had been married twice. He has a stepdaughter, although he and his second wife were having issues.

01:19:50

And on the weekends for years, he had worked for like athletic clubs. The Belmont Little Athletics Clubs were like, you know, like for us to be AYSO, I think,

01:19:58

were just like kids playing sports. Sure. He had been on the committee as a records officer.

01:20:04

And by 2007, he had become the club's president. so he's not some creep in the shadows

01:20:10

he's fucking out there living a stand-up life John Wayne Gacy style exactly and he becomes the club's president

01:20:19

there's even pictures of him in the newspaper receiving an award and stuff and it's more of the usual

01:20:26

unassuming everyone couldn't believe it he helped his neighbors with computers the usual

01:20:32

we got an email from a listener who wrote in about him. And then so she was like, she was friends with the family. And so as a kid,

01:20:45

she says, quote, he was always really nice and charming. And the things that sticks out to me

01:20:50

the most is he was also one of the most sympathetic people I've ever met in my life.

01:20:54

So he used to drive this little girl and another little girl home every day. And she said,

01:21:02

because of my religious background, I'm not supposed to eat beef, but I love it. So when

01:21:06

he used to pick me up, he used to get me McDonald's cheeseburgers. It's so spine chilling to me that

01:21:12

a serial killer bought me food and I ate it when I was alone in the car with him. And that's from

01:21:19

Svigata. Wow. I know, right? Yeah. She like got driven around by a serial killer. That's nice and

01:21:28

Charming. Sympathetic. Yes. Yeah. So a surveillance operation begins. And with days, detectives grab a Sprite bottle that Edwards had thrown away at a movie theater where he watched a movie with his stepdaughter.

01:21:41

And when the bottle's tested, it's a match. And so finally, after 20 years, with all the evidence being tied together because the DNA found under Ciara Glennon's fingernails because she fucking fought back, it's all tied together.

01:21:56

And this the Claremont serial killer is finally caught. But, you know, you think about this, the common assault charge doesn't get fired from his job.

01:22:08

It's maybe if things had been different, some of these cases wouldn't even have happened.

01:22:16

You know, if he had been treated like the sexual predator. If someone didn't go in and fight for his fucking right, his right to assault women and because he was stressed out, that should just be ignored.

01:22:28

Yeah. Hey, guess what? Sorry, because I'm sure that person heartily regrets even even being involved in that.

01:22:36

But that was a massive that was a mistake built on misogyny. That was a mistake built on nothing can happen to the boys and the girls just complain a lot.

01:22:46

And that's fucking bullshit and crazy. Yeah, that person should be. I mean, I can't imagine living with myself after that. And then.

01:22:54

No, that's terrible. I'm sure they. I mean, and it's so sad because in this interview, this woman feels all the guilt, you know,

01:23:01

the woman who was attacked is like, I should have done more, which like they, they didn't even take you seriously. You couldn't have done more. You were the victim.

01:23:10

You weren't supposed to be fighting for your. And also, no, exactly. She, it wasn't her job to fight for that or solve the case or do it

01:23:18

correctly. It wasn't her job. But on top of that, the fact that that happened to her and that she

01:23:23

did survive and fought so hard is the reason they ultimately were able to find that guy and solve

01:23:28

that case. So she did more than she she did everything. She's foundational. That's right.

01:23:35

She's the fucking hero in her story. Yeah. Big time. Yeah. So when his home is raided,

01:23:41

police discover allegedly all kinds of like twisted stuff, kind of like the BTK of like,

01:23:47

homemade sex toys and women's underwear with holes cut out, violent erotica stories

01:23:54

that are like about the abduction and women and porn depicting rape and torture just really sadistic you know stuff that this mild mannered person wouldn

01:24:06

we wouldn't think they have it in their, in their house. And when he's brought in for questioning, again, mild mannered, he's calm,

01:24:14

he acts surprised and confused about bringing bought in and speaks openly with the investigators for 12 hours.

01:24:21

And he politely tells them repeatedly that he has no knowledge of the killings and says he is, quote, 120 percent positive that he had no involvement in the murders or the sexual assaults.

01:24:34

I don't think. OK. Hi, red flag. Yeah. The phrasing of that. I'm 120 percent positive I'm not involved.

01:24:42

Yeah. Because there's a world where you could maybe not be sure. Yeah. Like you, you either know you are or you're not involved at all.

01:24:51

Right. There's no the assuredness that I'm really sure I didn't do anything is basically giving away that you don't know that your brain is a mystery to you and you don't know what.

01:25:04

Right. Like what you're doing. Right. Because an innocent person would say, I didn't do that.

01:25:08

I am not the person who did that. I promise I didn't do it. I'm not sure. Positive. I didn't do it.

01:25:14

I don't know. Yeah. I'm positive I'm not involved. Oh, okay. Yeah. As opposed to what you're secretly

01:25:21

keeping in your head, that you are absolutely involved. It's like giving the opposite answer to the secret in your head

01:25:29

gives it away. Yeah. But finally his DNA is tested. Positive I'm not involved. Yeah. Okay, sorry. Try that next time you're lying,

01:25:37

everyone. Finally, his DNA is tested and he's arrested for the murders of 27-year-old Ciara Glennon, 23-year-old Jane Rimmer, and 18-year-old Sarah Spears,

01:25:47

as well as the 1988 Huntingtondale sexual assault of the 18-year-old woman. And by the way, he lived in Huntingtondale as a teenager when these prowling incidents were happening.

01:25:59

So that's the connection there. And two counts of aggravated sexual penetration without consent of the 17-year-old girl in the Claremont Cemetery in 1995.

01:26:10

all of which he pleads innocent for. Okay, so he's brought to trial three years later on November 25th,

01:26:17

2019. The night before the trial begins, he admits and pleads guilty to both the sexual assault cases,

01:26:26

but not the murders. He pleads innocent to the murders. He's like, okay, I lied about not being

01:26:32

involved in the sexual assault cases. And essentially, the defense comes down to the

01:26:37

argument that the DNA was contaminated, which I think is why he must have pled guilty to the two

01:26:43

assaults. So he could explain his DNA being in the lab and then saying, well, you must have used

01:26:49

that DNA and got it mixed up and contaminated with the DNA of the murders, which is fucking

01:26:55

smart. Because I'm just a rapist, not a murderer. Right. Yes. My you if you can't explain why your DNA is at any scene, then it shouldn't be in the room at all. But if your DNA is supposed to be in the room because you are involved, you motherfucker.

01:27:13

That is a cynical mercenary approach that sounds like it was it was that a bunch of people worked on that idea.

01:27:24

It sure does. That strategy. It sure does. Doesn't it dirty? yes well also just because

01:27:30

the you're admitting to something that actually is it's lending itself much more to

01:27:38

the character argument that you are a bad fucking person a sociopath anyway or whatever

01:27:44

psychopath the idea that you're just like it's just those it's not this yeah so maybe I'll get away

01:27:50

with the other ones it's an angle but I think it actually reveals much more about that

01:27:56

person in it because Jesus fucking Christ. And it wasn't well thought out. And yeah.

01:28:03

And it's like, it's, what was I going to say? Oh, also the MO fits all of them, you know,

01:28:10

in some way or another. So, and also the fact that this, you know, the 17 year old got,

01:28:17

got grabbed off the street and pulled in, tied up and pulled into the van, makes them,

01:28:22

makes everyone wonder if that's actually, they didn't get into a taxi or an unmarked car.

01:28:26

Maybe one, maybe one of them, or all of them were attacked on the street and, you know, kidnapped.

01:28:32

Yeah, and that if he was such a great guy, a sympathetic guy, a lovely, friendly guy,

01:28:39

that it would be very easy if he's wearing a uniform of this kind of thing. Well known.

01:28:44

That's the thing. Yes, he used the company car. He wore his uniform. Other women said that they had seen him in the area,

01:28:51

and maybe he tried to pick them up at the time. They testified to that. And he's like, at work.

01:28:57

he's working oh I'm just going to this call for this phone line want me to take you to that area

01:29:02

yeah I can take you yeah I'm just this business guy I practically work for the city I'm just like

01:29:07

this I'm it's like the Culligan Manor so it's like yeah the arrowhead spring delivery guy where

01:29:13

you're like yes this is the most trustworthy person because he's around he is you know we

01:29:18

were saying like it's so sinister when it's in a group of people he makes up a background player

01:29:22

in a group of people. Totally. That's the guy, the phone line guy. Totally. I mean, and also the idea that he worked for that company,

01:29:30

those knives were found at the scenes of some bodies. You don't, the other stuff, I mean, you're in it, friend.

01:29:39

Here's, well, some of the, some of the, so essentially the defense comes down to the argument

01:29:45

that the DNA was contaminated, which is, you know, And that which is the defense is able to show other instances of contamination in in the case including several times when the DNA of scientists working on the case was found on samples So you know they do have a chance with that plea or that argument You covered that one

01:30:08

It wasn't that San Diego? San Diego, right. But no, but in this actual lab where this DNA was

01:30:14

tested. Oh, yeah. Oh, they weren't just saying it happened in general. No. Wow. And when I read

01:30:19

that, I remember reading it in like, like March being like, Oh, fuck, like this better not

01:30:25

get him off. And on sample one instance where the DNA of a victim of a totally unrelated crime had

01:30:35

been contaminated with a sample of the Claremont killer. But it was all debunked on cross examination.

01:30:41

So I don't even know if it's true. And then the fiber evidence also forms a significant part of

01:30:47

the prosecution's case. Remember those blue polyester fibers found on Miss Rimmer and Scullinan's

01:30:54

bodies? Well, they match the Telstra work pants that Edwards would have worn in the mid

01:31:00

nineties, which were manufactured specifically for the company using a bespoke color

01:31:05

known as Telstra Navy. So it all fucking ties back to Telstra. And you're like, that's crazy.

01:31:13

They, they should have. Oh, And there was also fibers that matched the 1996 Holden Commodore that he had driven at the time.

01:31:20

And you're like, why didn't they look more into Telstra employees? Why didn't they look at their back, do background checks on all of them, blah, blah, blah.

01:31:27

So investigators had asked for the names of Telstra workers who would have driven those cars since there had been sightings of those cars.

01:31:34

Somehow his fucking name was left off of the list. Quote, clerical error or some shit twice.

01:31:42

So if they had seen his name. I wonder if he... they would have seen that he had a prior,

01:31:47

well, they would have seen he had a common assault charge, not a sexually motivated charge,

01:31:51

but maybe he had some charge. They would have looked at it. Yeah. They would have seen and maybe been able to go and talk to the victim and see

01:31:58

what the real deal was. But also maybe he made it because clearly he got away with it for a long

01:32:05

time. So maybe he did something and he had access. When they were putting those lists together,

01:32:11

He had access and the ability to delete his own name off the list. Or maybe he went.

01:32:16

Clearly, his fucking supervisors are sympathetic. Maybe he went to them and say, hey, I have this charge.

01:32:21

It was for nothing years ago. I don't need them looking into me. Can you just take my name off the list?

01:32:25

Obviously, it's not me. And maybe they did it. Who the fuck knows? Maybe. Maybe.

01:32:30

I mean, because it is the thing about these people that are they're barely people because

01:32:36

they're entirely dedicated to creating a mask that you fall for and feel safe with. And yeah,

01:32:46

they just manipulate everyone all the time. It's crazy that they don't get caught. That's the whole

01:32:52

point of their life. And also Telstra had no record of the actual assault in their files that

01:32:58

that even happened. So we're going to go ahead and need a report from Telstra. We're going to

01:33:04

have to do an internal investigation. I want Wendy Davis to now own the company Telstra and all the money.

01:33:14

She gets all of it for not being fucking believed and for not being fucking treated the way

01:33:20

she should have been treated. Sorry, Wendy owns Telstra now and she can sell it for millions of dollars.

01:33:25

Yeah, or just give her some old school stock. Yeah. So the trial which is decided, so there's no

01:33:30

jury, it's just going to be a judge instead of a jury because of the massive public, like everyone knows everything about it.

01:33:38

And also there's these really gruesome details that they just don't think a jury should see.

01:33:43

So it's going to be decided upon by a judge. So it's 85 days in the courtroom and there's testimony for more than 200 witnesses,

01:33:52

60,000 pages of DNA and fiber evidence and 110 gigabytes of data, which in today's gigabytes, I don't know what it is.

01:34:02

And it's a billion. It started last November. So they did it through COVID, too.

01:34:10

Like the whole time. They're just plowing through. Yeah. Wow. Which is incredible.

01:34:14

And finally, on Thursday, September 24th, just two, three weeks ago, Justice Stephen

01:34:21

Hall delivers his verdict. So Bradley John Edwards, he's now 51, is found guilty of the murders of Jane Rimmer in 1996

01:34:30

and Ciara Glennon in 1997. But unfortunately, he says that though Edwards is likely the killer of Sarah Spears, he felt he couldn't rule it beyond a reasonable doubt because her body had never been found.

01:34:44

So there's no DNA evidence, even though the MO is identical. So he acquits Edwards on that count, which is so disappointing.

01:34:52

I don't think he's doing his job. Obviously, he wanted him to be found guilty as well.

01:34:58

But it's just almost like he's being rewarded for hiding her body so well. Well, I mean, that's yeah, that's just how it is. But it's that thing of like, especially in a situation where if DNA is questionable in the first place, that guy has to be so meticulous about the rule of law.

01:35:14

Right. And what exactly is required to get, you know, like a guilty verdict. So I almost wonder around.

01:35:21

And yeah, I wonder if almost if there'd be another trial just with Sarah Spears case based on the M.O. of the other cases that, you know, if it wasn't tried together, they would somehow, you know, because people.

01:35:34

I mean, they just would need more. I would think they would need more evidence to tip it over because the evidence as such that he's saying isn't going to do the job.

01:35:42

That's true. That's too bad. So sentencing will take place on December 23rd. 23rd. And so finally, after 24 years, Australia's longest running and most expensive criminal

01:35:51

investigation, one that scarred the city of Perth finally came to a close. There are people who think

01:35:58

that there are more victims. Bradley John Edwards that are not yet known, which isn't surprising in the same way Golden State Killer just stopped, you know, what he was doing or, you know, are there are there cases from before the known ones?

01:36:14

After the verdict, Ciara Glennon's father, Dennis, said that he had made a graveside promise to his daughter to pursue justice for her or die trying.

01:36:24

He said, quote, that promise, that commitment to Ciara has driven me unwaveringly and unapologetically.

01:36:31

The family of Jane Rimmer released a statement saying they were pleased to finally have, quote, some answers about the abduction and horrendous murder of our beloved Jane.

01:36:41

Jane had her whole life ahead of her, and it's almost beyond comprehension that this could have ended in such horrific, heinous circumstances.

01:36:49

Our family can now take some comfort today and the healing process can begin. Both families agree, however, that the ordeal won't be over until the Spears family has some closure.

01:37:04

Jane's sister, Lee, said, quote, we got the result we wanted and now we just have to keep working for the Spears family and hope someone finds Sarah.

01:37:15

And that is the story of the Claremont serial killer. God, wow. It's, I think I listened to, who is the Australian guy that hosts this show and no one knows who he is?

01:37:31

Oh, yeah. Case File. Case File. Yes, for sure. I listened to the Case File about this.

01:37:38

I think anyone that listened to our podcast, we've talked about Case File before.

01:37:42

But if you haven't heard it. It's great. He does an amazing job on that show and especially Australian based crimes like you.

01:37:51

So such a good researcher. But yeah, it is such a like epic case there. The idea that they just closed the book in for those two murders, at least.

01:38:05

Yeah. It's kind of amazing. I mean, that's great. So many people just never thought it'd be solved, you know.

01:38:12

and when you think of it in terms of it being perth being pretty small and isolated and just

01:38:19

knowing that there's a killer among you that you have no idea when they're going to strike again

01:38:24

it's never going to be it would never be safe for a woman to fucking walk home again it's just

01:38:30

it's horrible also it makes me think of you know like what excuse me what billy and paul are doing

01:38:36

on murder squad because it doesn't it always come down every time we tell these stories where it's

01:38:42

cold case and then something comes up because they have this, they have fresh blood in the,

01:38:47

you know, they have people, new detectives, people that are, they're, they're dedicating

01:38:51

cold case teams to this. And people are going into the evidence room and pulling out those old

01:38:57

boxes and looking through them. I mean, that's just like doing it the, the old fashioned way.

01:39:03

It's always really heartening to hear those stories of people who are like, we want these

01:39:08

solved and we want these families to yeah to get justice in some way and not only is the technology

01:39:15

changing so they can do dna testing the way they never could but our our thought our like ideas of

01:39:22

what a victim is and what a perpetrator is and who could do these crimes and how and why they

01:39:28

happen is changing and becoming yes hopefully less fucking misogynistic so that people

01:39:36

A little bit more fact based because how many stories have we told where it is always these people who everyone says they great They lent me things from their garage Like the way we the way we decide people are good people in this world They don make problems for me

01:39:56

A lot of smiling, a small talk and conversation. And then, you know, hopefully you don't ever catch them on that weird day where they decide to kick a cat or something.

01:40:07

Right. Or you accidentally bump their car and see the rage suddenly in their face or whatever.

01:40:12

It's just such superficial. Like, I hope that if nothing else, all of the true crime trend just will hit people to the idea that you have to we've talked about this before.

01:40:23

Save that trust for the third date. Like you if it's your neighbor and he lends you the lawnmower doesn't mean he's a good person.

01:40:30

Like you need to see people out in their day to day. And I mean, but again, like we said, with some of these like true psychopaths, you would never be you would never think in a million years because that's they dedicate their lives to being the kind of people you would never suspect.

01:40:48

Wow. Great job. That was really good. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. I like the idea that that's that's one we can we can look at as being solved now.

01:40:57

Yeah. Thank God. Yeah. All right. It's fucking hooray time. All right. And not a moment too soon.

01:41:04

Amen. Let's see. This one's from Haley, and it says, This fucking hooray is for slash about my fellow murderino, former roommate, and best friend, Kendall.

01:41:14

We just graduated college, which is a fucking hooray in and of itself during 2020.

01:41:19

And then this bitch started, this is in all caps, and then this bitch started law school at fucking Harvard Law.

01:41:26

She is one of the smartest, hardest working people I know, and she truly cares about this world and politics and fighting for those without a voice.

01:41:33

She's exactly the type of lawyer that we all know this world needs more of. And there's no one more deserving.

01:41:38

She also did this while being a wonderful friend and daughter. While her, while both of her parents are kicking cancer's ass.

01:41:46

I love her and I'm so fucking proud of her. And I can't wait to watch her become a real life Elle Woods fighting for people that need a voice the most.

01:41:54

As a CGM Haley. Hell yeah. I love that. Way to glow your friend up. I know. I love that someone else's fucking hooray is their friend.

01:42:03

That's so beautiful. She's very proud of her friend who went to Harvard fucking law.

01:42:08

That's badass. Yeah. Okay. This is so awesome from Instagram from live underscore Desiree.

01:42:14

Okay. My fucking hooray this week are my mom and murderino friends who helped me SSDGM.

01:42:19

Two of these badass ladies who know my morning walk routine immediately checked in on me when

01:42:24

there was a report of two active shooters in our area. Within minutes, I had four different friends who checked in every few minutes until I was home safe.

01:42:33

Women looking after women. It's such a beautiful thing. If it hadn't been for them, I probably would have walked right through the wrong neighborhood on my way home or taken my usual trail through the woods where the perpetrators were evading police.

01:42:46

Oh, I'm so grateful and so lucky to have the friends that I do. Huge thank you to them for making sure my son and I got home safe.

01:42:56

Wow. Wow. Beautiful. This is a friend's theme. Yeah. Here comes the little monkey.

01:43:03

Let's see. This says, fucking hooray, I saved a life. I'm a 911 dispatcher for a living, so I deal with people's worst day every day.

01:43:12

Wow. I didn't put it that way. Holy shit. The other day, I took a call from a teenager that her aunt wasn't responding.

01:43:21

I got the ambulance en route, and we started CPR. The paramedics got on scene and she became alert and talked with them.

01:43:30

And then all caps. She walked herself to the ambulance. Not the first life save I had before but it always a great feeling because most things don end that well in my line of work Stephanie Amazing Amazing Keep it up Yeah This one is called I FaceTime my 95 great for the first time

01:43:51

This is from the Fan Cult Forum. And it's sent by Louis Bondoui. What's up, Louis?

01:43:59

What's up, Louis? Okay. My 95-year-old great-grandma Dolores is one of my most favorite people on earth.

01:44:06

She's a G damn angel. She lives two hours up north. And though I have tried to see her at her nursing facility, I've been denied three times even for a window visit. She has pretty severe Alzheimer's, so she doesn't really know who I am anymore. But I tried to visit her as often as I could when the world allowed. But last night I found out she's in the hospital and tested positive for COVID. Not the best news.

01:44:31

But my boyfriend called the hospital and explained that he is a coroner and I work in a funeral home and that our city has seen more cases than the whole country she lives in.

01:44:41

He then was directed at the hospital coordinator who informed him that I am able to FaceTime her on the hospital's iPad and I got to see her.

01:44:50

The nurse told her, quote, Lindsay's on the phone and she perked up. Her eyes got big and she seemed to know who I was.

01:44:58

through tears and some giggles. I finally got to see her one more time. I told her I love her.

01:45:04

And the nurse said she gripped the iPad tighter and pulled it closer. I wish I was there so she

01:45:09

could squeeze my hand when I told her I love her like she used to. But I knew her grumbles and

01:45:15

snickers meant that she loved me too. Stay sexy and tell the people you love that you love them

01:45:20

any chance you get, Lindsay. Ugh. Wow. Yeah. Heavy. Heavy times. I mean, it's heavy times.

01:45:28

Everything's getting real fucking real. And there's people dealing with shit like this, you know,

01:45:34

trying to get a hold of their relatives who are dying alone in a hospital. Like, aside from

01:45:40

the fact that there's no plan, aside from the fact there's no contact tracing, aside from all these other things that

01:45:46

are an absolute collapse of leadership, that idea that there's just no no one's taken the time just to make this a more workable livable

01:45:57

thing is just we're going to be dealing with it for a long time we are we totally are yep

01:46:02

um but we can say but we can say when things are great because there's little things that are and

01:46:10

we just keep doing it that's right look for your point look for the fucking hoorays in your life

01:46:14

and tell them to us on Instagram and Twitter and a fan cult. Please. Yeah. We need it.

01:46:20

We all need it. We really need it. I have hummingbirds that there's hummingbirds in my tree

01:46:28

and there's hummingbirds in the neighbor's tree. And now there's a hummingbird highway between the two

01:46:32

that's right outside my window. That's your fucking array? I mean, that's my fucking array

01:46:38

because also it reflects of how much time I spend staring at my window. And sitting at this desk being like, what the fuck?

01:46:47

But then it's like, yeah, I got to, you know, keep your eye peeled for hummingbirds traveling at high speeds.

01:46:57

My fucking hurry is I haven't had a drink in three nights. Tonight will be four nights.

01:47:02

And I'm just trying to take a little time off. And it's been great. I had this realization that like, oh, you know, all the anxiety and negativity and self-hatred and self-talk you do when you're drunk.

01:47:16

It actually will stop if you don't drink. It's not like it'll get better. It's not like it'll lower it a little bit.

01:47:22

Like that whole thing will stop. There's a way to actually stop it. It like hit me.

01:47:26

It's like, oh, 100. I don have to have a hangover ever again if I just completely stop Fuck Right I know Baby steps I learning That right Well you know what it is You have to feel the reality of it because you can

01:47:40

conceptualize your way into doing that. You just have to go, this feels better. I'm going to do it

01:47:46

until it doesn't feel better. And then I'm going to deal with it when it's something else before

01:47:50

the moment. And for right now, you can go, I want to do the thing that feels the best to me because

01:47:56

especially all things considered. Yeah. Let's actually aim at good feeling as opposed to habits that we think bring relief.

01:48:05

Right. I'm sick and tired of being sick and tired. So I'm trying something else.

01:48:10

Right. Amen. Nice. Thanks for listening for two hours to us, you guys. In this crazy world,

01:48:19

we appreciate that you stopped by and say hello to your aunts, your crazy aunts.

01:48:24

Yeah, that's right. Oh, we love when you come to visit, honey. Oh my God, how's the heart handy?

01:48:30

I have the Christmas cookies you like from last Christmas. Let me pull out this tin.

01:48:36

Oh, grandma energy. Yay. Honey. Big grandma energy. Honey, I'll fix you a plate.

01:48:42

That's what grandmas do. Keep that grandma energy this week. If you can't do anything else, then at least just keep a little of your grandma,

01:48:51

of someone else's grandma you liked, a cartoon grandma, whatever you need. But that's the energy.

01:48:57

Approach everyone with grandma energy this week. Yes. I'll fix you a plate. Of course you can come over.

01:49:04

Grandmas feed everybody. Fix your heart a plate. Let me fix you a plate. Do it. Yeah.

01:49:09

Feed others. Yeah. And oh, and also stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

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My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

244 - Be Nostalgic For Old Problems

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