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Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello. Oh. And welcome. To my favorite murder. How are you? How are you? This is a podcast. That's how we are. That's Karen Kilgariff.
00:02:00
That's Georgia Hartstark. Thanks for having us in your ears. What's going on in here? Are you cold?
00:02:07
What's that smell? What was that thing we started sending each other pictures of?
00:02:15
Tweezers pulling. Was that some hair being pulled out of cat's ears? No, it was poodles.
00:02:20
they do this I found videos of hair like long haired dogs get hair like stuck in their ear you know
00:02:32
and then there's videos of like groomers yanking it out and the dogs and they're my favorite
00:02:40
thing in the world and they're right to be making that noise and shivering in disgust
00:02:46
because I cannot figure out like that the zip popping videos also love like all the different I can't
00:02:56
figure out how I feel about it oh you don't like you don't you're not like absolutely love or hate
00:03:00
you're like it feels like attraction repulsion it feels like I'm not sure I want to look away
00:03:06
I can't that's disgusting I don't want to see it I can't stop looking at it like it's a real I
00:03:13
guess that's part of the appeal for people. I love it purely and with a pure heart and soul.
00:03:20
But then I can't watch like people getting punched, like stuff like that upsets me a lot.
00:03:25
Oh, that's what I that's what I am looking for. Like when there's gonna be a fight on like,
00:03:31
you know, on the Senate floor or something. I can't I get so upset. And I feel so bad for
00:03:35
everyone involved. And I don't know. You know, when they box and stuff on the Senate floor,
00:03:43
You know, what's really funny is my sister, there was some video that went viral recently of somebody getting punched. And my sister, I was like, I can't remember how we were talking about it. But at the same time, we both started laughing. And we're because people were flipping out like, oh, this person got punched or whatever.
00:04:03
And at the same time, we're like, that was not even a good fight. That was not even a good punch.
00:04:09
And then we started laughing because when we were in college, my sister hung out with this group of guys.
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And it was all people from my high school. Like a huge group of people from my high school went to Sacramento together.
00:04:22
Yeah. And some of my cousins. Like there was a whole bunch of us up there. And so everyone would go.
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I mean, I couldn't. My sister was old enough to go to these bars on the weekend.
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and she would go with this group of guys who at the end of the night would absolutely fight someone
00:04:37
in the street and it was just going to happen because they were going to get drunk and they
00:04:42
were going to start a fight with somebody and so like someone they didn't know or part of their
00:04:45
group it just depended but usually it was someone they didn't know and so my sister would you know
00:04:51
end up standing outside black angus or wherever the fuck they would be and you know my sister's
00:04:58
in her like guest mini skirt and her arms crossed all rolling her eyes and then there's all there
00:05:03
was always like girlfriends standing next to her like crying and going stop it stop it and she'd be
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like just be quiet it's gonna be over in like five minutes don't worry about it she's playing her
00:05:12
part that's her part it's gonna get really upset and meanwhile my sister's like checking her watch
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and she's just like yeah this is like this is what happens every weekend just it doesn't need
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to be that big of a deal oh god it's so funny i'm not into fighting love fighting scares me
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it scares me and like and it's also just like the way people's face looks when they face look
00:05:35
when they realize that getting punched hurts even though they've been talking a lot of shit
00:05:40
and suddenly they're like oh this is real yes i don't like that feeling like that feeling of that
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cold watching over you of, oh, this is fucking happening. Yeah. Well, very true.
00:05:52
And I do not envy boys and men who have to get sometimes feel that they have to get into that situation like they just that the only choice they have or they have like a smart mouth or a bad personality and they
00:06:06
get themselves in that situation but at the same time and I think it's because my dad was just kind
00:06:14
of like a real big guy yeah so I never had to I just knew that if anything happened I was with the
00:06:20
guy that was going to win. He's bigger than everybody. And he was scary, even not punching
00:06:27
anybody. He could be scary enough to make people go away. He's an intimidating presence. And actually,
00:06:33
you know, Vince's dad always said is when he was Vince was a kid. Vince's dad said to him,
00:06:38
don't start any fight, but finish every fight. Yeah, I love so much, which is, I think how you
00:06:46
should live your life completely like you don't let people walk on you yeah but you you don't look
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for trouble right my mom told me this great story one time they were they were walking in some little
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town like um in you know kind of they went out for the day and had lunch or something and they
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were walking by this bar and there were some dudes standing outside the bar like you know
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hanging out or smoking they kind of look like biker dudes and as they walked by one of them
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made a joke about my dad being bald and, and they walked, they kept walking. And that my mom said
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they walked to like 10 more feet. And then my dad, they were kind of like arm and arm or holding
00:07:26
hands or whatever. And then my dad stopped and turned to my mom and said, no, you stay right
00:07:30
here. I'll be right back. And then he just walked straight back to them and they all ran away.
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Because he was just, he was like, and my mom, my mom just thought, Oh, he is just kind of
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embarrassed and he's like whatever but he basically walked her away from the area yeah so that he could
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go back and kick their ass this is not for you let me take a moment now you stand here not involving
00:07:53
you clothing store you're clear of debris or anything that could fly out of this fight oh god
00:07:59
yeah i don't i mean like yeah actually i've never been in a physical fight oh personally i would i
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would never do it and I'd always be like oh my god like I could I could do it but I would always
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just be like I'd rather just be mean it's so weird it's so weird it's like it goes in slow motion
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for sure have you been in fights oh yeah like a girl fight yeah I was in one fight in high school
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with like my friend and we got we had this falling out and then she came out after me
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in the lunch and the like main the quad or whatever and yeah I fucking won sorry but
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we made up later. It's not. It's fine. But I definitely punched her in the face.
00:08:44
You know what happened? She came after me. We start fighting. I was bigger than her
00:08:50
and a little scrappier. I feel terrible about that because I'm so anti-fighting and violence and all
00:08:55
of that. It doesn't help. Had all the hormones happening. That's what it is. I think when you're
00:09:02
younger or also when you're first having fun times with alcohol and you have that kind of like you're invincible feeling yeah there's it's very
00:09:12
normal to kind of test that out or to have these weird and then like like emotional times no no
00:09:19
then like passionate friendships with girls that you have at that age are so fraught with so many
00:09:25
emotions and you know just the highs and lows that happen the betrayal of those kind of like
00:09:33
I've tried to tell Nora stuff without being sounding like a crazy, like old witch going beware.
00:09:41
But it's like that kind of thing where and what worries me about the way people parent these days is they're so up the asses of like so and so's friends, parents.
00:09:51
Now we're friends. And I mean, I'm talking about kind of small town. Yeah. But I worry about that because it's like, what if they have a falling out and they truly don't like one of them does something truly fucked?
00:10:03
and they're not going to be able to tell you about it. And then suddenly they have to hang out because the parents are friends.
00:10:08
Like, it's all that stuff we didn't have to worry about. Yeah. Back in the day. I don't have to worry about that.
00:10:13
I think that's why you can check off your list. Permission to check it off my list.
00:10:20
Thank you. I needed to hear that. Let's see. Are you watching anything? Doing anything fun, special, reading?
00:10:28
I feel like that I'm doing my thing where I'm re-watching British shows and that it brought me a sense of peace and calm.
00:10:37
Great. So the one I'm doing right now is a television show that I truly adore called Lark Rized Candleford.
00:10:44
Those words don't mean anything to me. It is so good. Did you watch Downton Abbey?
00:10:51
First season, yeah. So there was a footman or a butler on that show. And he was the big famous one from downstairs.
00:11:02
He plays the dad in this show. That guy's name is Brendan Coyle. And then the woman who I love, which I think everybody loves her.
00:11:11
She played the daughter on Absolutely Fabulous. Remember the Put Upon Daughter? Her name's so good.
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Julia Sawala, I believe. She's the lead. Great. And she works, she runs the post office.
00:11:23
Okay. And then, and then Claudia Blakely, who, she plays the mom. And I've talked about her before.
00:11:32
She's the British actress that was in something else that we loved. But I was like, she needs her own props because she's so good.
00:11:37
And, oh, she's like, she's in the Pride and Prejudice movie. She's amazing. So it's basically kind of like all my British actor friends in one big show.
00:11:49
and then it's like village life in the like it seems like I don know mid 1800s okay that sounds like everything I don want everything you want and I really happy for you it is it like everything i want but it also is the thing where you know like and maybe this is a
00:12:05
quarantine thing but like around the time i start watching tv at night what i start my brain is like
00:12:12
oh you can just go hang out it's almost like i'm going into another room where the people are
00:12:16
it's it has that vibe because it's families and there's like little problems it's almost like a
00:12:21
British soap opera a little bit. Yeah, so you're like actually having a life still.
00:12:26
Yes. But it's just, you're not involved in it. It's very sad. I'm not saying that.
00:12:35
The people. They're my friends. My TV people. I have a suggestion for something to calm your nerves or like happy watching.
00:12:43
Great. So, okay. Old game shows. Sure. There's a channel called Buzzer. B-U-Z-Z-E-R.
00:12:50
I think it's like an app you probably have to add on or whatever. That just shows old fucking weird game shows.
00:12:59
And there's this one that we had never seen before that we are now obsessed with called Concentration.
00:13:04
Yes. You know that one? We're solving the puzzle. We're solving the puzzle. And it's like memory, like the game Memory, where you turn over a thing and it's like washer and dryer.
00:13:12
And then you turn over number 15 and it's washer and dryer. And you match and then you have a chance to solve this puzzle.
00:13:18
and the original host was just clearly hated everyone and everything. And he was so mean.
00:13:23
And then and the puzzles were so hard. And it would be like a riddle that you'd never heard of before.
00:13:29
So everyone, sorry, really quick. Yeah. Was the puzzle that was revealed a there's a word for it.
00:13:35
I won't be able to remember, but it's those things with the I see the cow or whatever.
00:13:40
Yes. OK, so there are people right now that know the name and are yelling at their phone.
00:13:45
And I'm sorry. but they're also the things that are inside the paps yes ribbon like a riddle using pictures
00:13:52
there's a word yeah rubix ruben yeah look sure ram a rebus it's a fucking really you got it
00:14:02
yeah i believe so nice job i believe so sorry keep going no no no so then alex trebek takes
00:14:08
over which reminded me that we need to fucking pour a little of my non-alcoholic beer on the
00:14:14
carpet for in memory of who a man we grew up with alex trebek bless his heart entirely and my family
00:14:22
watches jeopardy every night at either seven or seven thirty i can't remember when it's on up there
00:14:28
well it's at seven because then wheel of fortune comes on after and we turn it really fast you don't
00:14:33
like it's too stupid it's stupid it's stupid but jeopardy is like that's how when Jeopardy's not on at seven,
00:14:45
I know something weird's happening with my family. That's that thing of like, why hasn't my dad made popcorn
00:14:51
and why isn't Jeopardy on at seven? Instead of an awkward silence, there's an awkward no Jeopardy.
00:14:59
So I love that. And so Alex Trebek now is the host. It's like the 80s, I think. And it's much better.
00:15:06
He likes his job and the puzzles. He's not mad. He's not mad and insulted. this guy like insulted the players
00:15:14
it was so funny so that's great and then Alex Trebek rest in peace and then another thing we didn't mention
00:15:20
talk about last week I think because we were so amped about the election and like it didn't even
00:15:25
cross my mind but like Kamala Harris is the first fucking female nominee vice president yeah
00:15:33
not nominee yeah anything I feel like it's overshadowed by so many things that are happening
00:15:39
but it's like yes incredible it's incredible it's incredible you know what we're it's that kind of thing where like
00:15:45
they have to go through they're just being forced to go through the things they're going through now
00:15:50
i do love that uh the trump administration is a one for 25 in their um court cases they've lost
00:15:57
all but one amazing but also it's just like it's like this is just that it's going to be a difficult
00:16:02
in between time we all knew it would be we all knew he wasn't going to have grace uh dignity um
00:16:09
Any kind of like larger picture behavior choice. It was just going to be him tweeting.
00:16:16
I won at four in the morning. Why start now? I mean, why start now? Yeah. Can't.
00:16:20
Too late. Old dogs. Old dogs. But I think, you know what? That's a great point. And it's the kind of thing that I think once we're in January, it'll be a much easier thing
00:16:30
to start saying, hey, there's all kinds of barriers. Barriers have been broken for lots of different people.
00:16:36
Yeah. And I want to celebrate that instead of like instead of cowering in a corner, hoping everything doesn't implode.
00:16:45
But yeah, you're right. We're not there yet. Well, but they're really laying the foundation of that.
00:16:50
It's not going to because it's basically just like but court conservative judge after conservative judge is saying there is no case here.
00:16:58
And yeah, and I appreciate that. Yeah. Can we talk about Sunday night? We found out that we were like on The Simpsons in a way.
00:17:06
Oh, shit. Oh, my God. Yeah. What the fuck? I had no idea until someone was like someone Instagram commented, cool Simpsons cameo.
00:17:15
And I was like, what are they talking about? Yeah, I should actually thank the first person who tweeted me because this is how I knew.
00:17:25
And it was one of those things where I kind of I didn't know what to do. Do you think I was like looking fun of first? I thought someone.
00:17:34
making fun of it oh yeah oh yeah i was just like oh shit this isn't gonna be good
00:17:38
there's all kinds of ideas that went through my head at stewart farger i think stewart
00:17:46
underscore farger he just sent a uh so now i can tell you the story because he sent me this picture
00:17:54
he went not sure if you if you seen this already but i couldn risk not letting you know And then he even put top right in But he sent me a picture where you were cropped out of the cell
00:18:08
So when you texted me like two hours later and went, oh, my God, have you seen this?
00:18:13
I was just like, I don't know. Oh, fuck. I don't know what to do. I like I was just like what I was just like.
00:18:19
My thing was, I guess I'll never talk about it. because it's like the cover is it's like your feature in the sacramento or in the um petaluma
00:18:26
newspaper where they brought me out but it's the fucking simpsons but it's the simpsons but you're
00:18:32
like the g was there where i was like oh fuck this is good whatever and then i opened the one you sent
00:18:39
me and i was like oh my god thank god oh my god oh my god i appreciate you not celebrating without
00:18:44
me. That's not a celebration. Thank you. It almost looked like, oh, it's just like
00:18:50
it almost looked to me like it's first of all like it's a movie when it's an animated
00:18:54
thing, but it's just like, oh, that just didn't make it into the shot kind of thing. But for some reason, Stu just
00:19:00
cropped you out. So then it became a joyous celebration. Yeah, it's really cool.
00:19:06
If you haven't seen it yet, it's an episode about Lisa and Marge getting into a true crime podcast
00:19:14
and of course Small Town Dicks, which is Lisa's podcast IRL. Yardley Smith, of course, does Small Town Dicks
00:19:22
podcast. So that's there, of course. And then they go and it looks like a restaurant and there's like
00:19:26
caricatures on the wall of like true crime podcasters and we're there. It looks like Dan Tana's, which
00:19:32
is a famous steakhouse in LA where they have celebrity pictures on the wall. It's an honor
00:19:40
after honor. Also, we're up there with fucking Deezus and Mero, Dan Carlin, Sarah Koenig, like all these people were just like, oh, shit.
00:19:47
And the Doughboys are there, too. It's like I feel they're there in person. Yeah.
00:19:51
Yeah. I feel immortal. It's fucking crazy. It's amazing. Also, Karina Longworth is there in person.
00:19:57
Like, it's a really cool glow up for podcasters and people who have, you know, I think of the
00:20:04
work that Karina Longworth puts into You Must Remember This. we've talked about that podcast a ton
00:20:10
but if you haven't heard it it is just a brilliantly done podcast about old Hollywood
00:20:17
mayhem not necessarily crime but like yeah bad stuff mayhem weird stories whatever
00:20:22
it's so well done the work she puts into it is unbelievable yeah it is and like it's like doughboys as
00:20:30
well have been doing this before there was money to be made like they've been doing this
00:20:34
when you actually like kind of lost money by podcasting. And the amount that they've spent
00:20:40
on the fast food. They've lost money. They've lost their health insurance. It was really
00:20:50
lovely. It's very cool. And my friend Matt Selman was one of the first people I met in
00:20:56
LA when I moved here when I was 24. He was, I think, maybe even younger than me. And we used
00:21:02
to go to the same bar all the time. and at the time he was the writer's assistant on the simpsons now he's an executive producer now
00:21:09
he's the ep he runs it yeah with a with other people but yeah he's he's the top dog he's amazing
00:21:15
so yeah so then later on he sent me an email saying hopefully you saw the easter egg and
00:21:20
hopefully we you know you you we hope you did the we did podcasting right or whatever it was
00:21:25
really lovely honored yeah honored i just can't even yeah that's one of the things where i was
00:21:31
looking at it this was aside from the other worries that i had i was looking at i'm like
00:21:35
now am i dead because this is so crazy on like is this real there's no way yeah like how how
00:21:45
important simpsons was to me throughout my childhood to the point where my sister yelled
00:21:50
mom george is having a cow when i had a seizure that's how important it was it's a big deal yeah
00:21:57
I mean, it was a big deal. Yeah. You were probably 11, right? When it came out. Because I was 19.
00:22:03
Yeah. And it meant the world to us. It's incredible. It was a big fucking deal. It kind of reminds me of when I saw Weird Al for the first time.
00:22:13
And I was like, oh my. And I just had to text my brother. Like, I know this is crazy.
00:22:19
And we have. Yeah. It was wild. These moments. These are high. Caliber. I was going to say high water moments.
00:22:28
That's not the saying. I don't know what I'm saying. It was high caliber. Really, it was a boutique moment.
00:22:37
I just wanted to, I feel like there's, I'm in a, now that things have, now it isn't pre-election week or election weekend or any of those things.
00:22:48
There's a tiny bit of normalcy ebbing back into life or whatever. and it's making me actually feel my feelings again,
00:22:57
which I don't appreciate or enjoy. But this morning, so, you know, as I've told you a million times,
00:23:04
I keep all these papers just sitting on my desk from every time we record. So because I'm always like, you have to use it for scratch paper.
00:23:12
Oh, it's sitting right in front of me. And this morning, my therapist had a couple bangers
00:23:17
and I just wanted to share that. Because I literally was like, sorry, I need to write this down.
00:23:22
Stop talking so I can write this down. Because I can't. I think I was just talking about how I'm having a hard time in COVID.
00:23:29
Kind of like I'm having reactions that don't make a ton of sense once they come out of my mouth.
00:23:36
And then I get really like self-loathing and feel a lot of shame. To which she said, she's like, that's toxic shame.
00:23:43
And toxic shame lies in wait for those moments when you falter so it can jump out and yell, I was right all along.
00:23:50
You're bad. I feel that one. Yeah. I feel that. You know, everybody feels shame and sometimes it's actually very helpful.
00:23:59
It keeps you. from doing things you don't want to do that you've already done before, whatever.
00:24:02
But when you have toxic shame, it's a different thing. And when that is your problem, you fall victim to this voice in your head that tricks you into thinking it knows everything and it's telling you how you are.
00:24:17
And that isn't accurate and it never updates itself. It never, you know, it's old.
00:24:26
It's the she always she always uses the example of in a beautiful mind that how the mathematician eventually understood I'm having a schizophrenic episode because the people never aged that would appear to him.
00:24:40
I never saw that movie. It was always a little girl. She never got older, even though he was getting older.
00:24:45
The people his roommate was never different. And it's that. And she goes, and that's the you have to start putting out these markers so that when you have these waves of feeling, you can go.
00:24:55
oh no no this isn't you finally accepting reality yeah like that's not that's not it
00:25:01
shit i like that one i'm always trying yeah i'm always trying to like put a name on that person
00:25:06
or describe that person she's my therapist always trying to get me to like it's not you it's a
00:25:11
different fucking voice and that's a really good one where it's like i can picture it they're
00:25:15
tricky because it feels like you it feels like your brain and it feels sometimes it's like i'm
00:25:22
just trying to be nice yeah and tell you tell you how you are and like and then good thing i've got
00:25:26
you or you would fucking humiliate yourself all the time right and where it's like and then meanwhile
00:25:31
on the outside everyone's just like what's the problem we had to do what's it we had a great
00:25:37
conversation what's happening yeah oh i bet i got it just want to put that into the old uh
00:25:44
into the old free therapy corner that we've started doing for everybody if anybody out there
00:25:50
dealing with toxic shame or an internal voice that sure is mean to you. We all are. Yeah.
00:25:58
Everybody is. Oh, also, she told me that when you have a wave of that, it usually takes 15 minutes
00:26:03
for it to go away. Oh, so it seems like it's coming. And it seems like, oh, this is permanently
00:26:07
how things are forever. But if you can keep be aware that it's, it's you're having an emotional
00:26:12
moment. You just put on music for 15 minutes. Yeah. It's not a it's not forever. Okay. Yeah.
00:26:20
you move through it so i shouldn't just start yelling at it fuck you go away get out of my
00:26:24
fucking head i hate you certainly don't start yelling at others out loud is the only cure
00:26:30
is for me to start having i should have done it start having punching it in the face so that i'm
00:26:36
just throwing punches old school black angus left right left hook it's the old combination
00:26:42
out in the street oh in old sacramento okay uh let's get fight in the street with exactly right
00:26:49
news. Nice. Beautiful segue. Thank you. There it is. Merch design news. We have a new look and listen
00:26:57
design. It's done by a friend of the family, Kate Lowe. Kate designs it on Instagram. It's just this
00:27:07
really cool line drawing of our faces. Very simple, neat, beautiful look and listen. Continual
00:27:15
line drawing. It's very delicate and it's It's kind of different. I really love it.
00:27:21
It's so good. It's very different than what we normally have, I feel like. Yeah.
00:27:25
Great. So check that out on the website. Great. Site store. And then it's on myfavoritemurder.com.
00:27:31
That's right. Do you want to? Okay. What podcast from the Exactly Right Library are you going to shout out this week, Karen?
00:27:39
Well, first of all, just so everybody is aware, and this is something you may have heard the ad about or whatever,
00:27:44
But the Exactly Right Network and all the shows therein, may I use the word therein, we're now on Pandora.
00:27:55
Right. So if you use Pandora, if you're into streaming, if you're into experimental streaming, it's free.
00:28:02
But you can go over to Pandora and you can listen to My Favorite Murder. You can listen to all the shows on Exactly Right.
00:28:08
And please do come support us on Pandora. Totally. For example, one of the shows, This Week's Bananas, I have to tell you, I just listened to it this morning.
00:28:18
The guest on This Week's Bananas is infectious disease researcher Laurel Bristow.
00:28:24
She is the woman that's on Instagram, basically from the beginning, helping people understand what's going on with COVID.
00:28:33
She's basically like, I think, a science translator is the term they kept using on the show.
00:28:38
So she basically updates people, tells them stuff. And she also started my and my sister is her number one fan.
00:28:47
So I've been hearing about Laurel for a while. And now she has a thing called Yeah Dog, No Dog, where she answers really stupid questions about the pandemic and about COVID.
00:28:59
And then people ask and be like, but can't isn't it my right to whatever? And she's like, no, no.
00:29:05
I love it super funny yeah so that's and also she's just it's so fun when people like that
00:29:13
aren't just good at the one thing they're good at she's such a delightful hilarious guest
00:29:18
that's so good on that show with Scotty and Kurt so love it listen to bananas definitely
00:29:23
and then I want to talk about our our newest podcast I Saw What You Did oh yeah that episode this week
00:29:31
is so great Millie and Danielle talk about the films Walking and Talking from 1996 and Me Without You from 2001.
00:29:39
And they talk about foot cigarettes and getting stuck watching sex scenes with your mom,
00:29:44
which everyone can relate to, I feel like. So that's out this week. I saw what you did.
00:29:48
Such a great podcast. Please check that out. And then also make sure that you rate, review and subscribe to any of the podcasts that you
00:29:54
love including us If you feel like doing that please do It really just helps every podcast get more recognition and get more listeners which is about us Yeah sometimes if you look at the iTunes top 10 or whatever
00:30:08
and you don't see the podcast that you love, it's because not enough people have written in or rated, reviewed, or subscribed.
00:30:14
So get involved on a local level. It's funny because I thought this week you were going to pick the Percast
00:30:21
because they have paleontologist and fossil disease specialist Yara Haridi on who has a gorgeous Siamese kitten.
00:30:31
I was positive that's what you're going to talk about. I don't like competing Siamese.
00:30:39
Steven, sorry. You're going to have to take a back seat to Elvis. I don't want to see the two Siamese cats fight.
00:30:46
I'm sure they would take a nap together. and then okay another fucking announcement they keep coming
00:30:54
week after week and this one's another biggie these are the shows we were telling you about
00:31:00
in frustration of we've got stuff coming hang in there whatever and now and this is and it's
00:31:07
happening now we're so so excited so this new podcast that you're going to hear the trailer for at the
00:31:12
end of this episode that's the way we do it so we give you a little taste sensation it's
00:31:18
It is a Law & Order SVU recap comedy interview podcast called That's Messed Up. I'm so excited for this one.
00:31:30
I know. Ever since this got pitched to us, and I heard it first from Kara, one of the hosts, who's a good friend and just a freaking hilarious person.
00:31:37
And she pitched it. I was like, abso-fucking-lutely. Whatever you want. Yes. So it's Kara Clank and Lisa Trager, who are just these two hilarious comedians, longtime comedians.
00:31:47
And they're great friends. And every week, they're just going to break down an episode of Law and Order Special Victims Unit. They're going to do a deep dive into the real case that inspired the episode.
00:31:59
And then they're also this is and they're also this is the coolest part, in my opinion, as a person who truly has listened to every episode of Law and Order SVU.
00:32:08
Yeah, I mean, watched podcasting. I've watched every episode. They're going to have guests on every week who are actors from the show.
00:32:20
And that's everyone from, for example, like the guest star who plays the cult leader or the person that plays a fruit vendor who saw the crime go down like just any.
00:32:31
And then all the way up through till big, fancy celebrity guest stars that are on it all the time.
00:32:37
So the show launches on December 8th, obviously on Exactly Right. But then listen to the trailer at the end of this show.
00:32:45
And then go make sure and subscribe to That's Messed Up wherever you listen to podcasts.
00:32:48
and then follow them on Twitter at MessedUpPod and on Instagram at That's MessedUpPod.
00:32:56
Please support them. This is going to be great. I'm so excited. Kara Klink is truly one of my favorite comedians.
00:33:03
I've watched her a lot. I've done some shows with her. But she's also the kind of person,
00:33:11
like when I would go to, say, a birthday party that's at a bar downtown or something like that,
00:33:16
and I would always go by myself and then just be like, halfway there I'd be like just go home just go home like it would be so difficult to even walk
00:33:22
in the door yeah if I saw her there it was just like boom I've got my I've got my lighthouse I
00:33:28
know where I can go she's so funny and fun to talk to but she's also just very real and uh
00:33:36
she's just she reminds me of someone I've known all my life I she's the greatest totally totally
00:33:40
so yay awesome that's messed up sorry Lisa please don't take that insult I also think you're
00:33:47
hilarious. Yes. But I don't know you and I've never because that's the old NYLA comic
00:33:53
divide because I've never I've never spent time with her because she's a New York comic.
00:33:57
Me too. Ditto. But the respect is there. It's absolutely there. And once COVID is
00:34:01
over, we're going to have a big exactly right party and everyone has to be there or they're going to get
00:34:07
fired. And we're also going to give out five golden tickets and candy bars and you can be there.
00:34:13
And there's going to be fist fights in their field. It's going to be held at the Black Angus in fucking Sacktown.
00:34:20
Oh, shit. Okay, wait. I actually don't even know if there is a Black Angus in Sacramento.
00:34:25
That was just the vibe. I was just like... I love it. It's like over on the side of the building
00:34:30
where the dumpsters are. That's where the fights usually were. That's where the party is.
00:34:34
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Terms and conditions apply. See pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Goodbye. Okay, so we're doing a quilt episode this week.
00:36:25
Oh, thank God. Oh, let's just say this really quick before people in the fan cult have learned this bitterly.
00:36:32
And we do apologize. But we are almost out of live shows because of the way time passes and the way and how many we've posted and how many we've used.
00:36:43
And the fact that we were supposed to start our tour, I think, in May. Was it September?
00:36:50
September. Yeah, it was supposed to be a fall tour. Remember? Was it? Yeah. It was going to be a big fall tour starting in September or maybe even August, if Joe got his way, our touring agent.
00:37:01
Yeah, it's hilarious and bizarre to us. But this is what we're doing with the last of the live shows.
00:37:08
Right. But also, if you're in the fan cult, don't you worry. Because we've got plans and schemes of things that we are going to start posting on the fan cult that you, we're pretty sure you're going to think are better than the live shows.
00:37:21
Right. And also don't forget that in the fan cult, the live shows are in there. You can listen to them anytime you want.
00:37:27
That's right. So it's not like they're all backlogged in there as well. Yeah. There's a whole thing you can get into.
00:37:32
Yeah. So this is what we're doing this week. Who goes first this week? I think it's you, right?
00:37:37
No. No, no. It's you, Karen. It's me, Karen. God, what was what happened last week?
00:37:46
So we're talking to people right now. I'm talking to you, South Carolina. I don't know if you remember in 2018 when me and a little lady named Georgia Hartstark came to see you at the North Charleston Performing Arts Center.
00:38:00
And this is my story from that night. It is the story of old timey, legendary lady, female, lady.
00:38:13
No, I love it. Go with it. Do it. I've lost my mind. Live it. Live it. Love it. Learn to Levitate, the lady female serial killer, Lavinia Fisher.
00:38:24
Yes, this is a good one. My story is also super old. Cool. Because, Charleston, I don't know if you know this about yourselves,
00:38:33
but you are the home of purportedly America's first female serial killer. Lavinia Fisher.
00:38:43
What's up? Lavinia Fisher. Let's take it. Oh, shit. She's doing a fucking George Washington.
00:38:55
She's fucking chilling like George. What's up, bitches? That's what she's saying.
00:39:01
What's up, bitches? I'm the first trailblazer. I guess that color yellow was kind of popular back then.
00:39:09
I guess so. A mustard? Here's what's funny. Stephen sent me. So Stephen, of course, handling everything always.
00:39:16
and he finds us like the photos, you know, he does like the good searches for us. He makes
00:39:22
this because we don't know how to. And then he makes that pretty thing. He's so good at computers
00:39:27
little Steven. He sends me this picture and he goes they're not sure if this is actually a picture
00:39:32
of her but this is what shows up every time you put in Lavinia Fisher like it's not guaranteed
00:39:38
that this is her image exactly. It could just be like a cool old cigar ad or something but
00:39:44
don't fuck up our correct streak of this podcast we've been so right all night she looks dead eyed
00:39:55
and chill as fuck let's just say it's her she really does look like she's kind of throwing some
00:40:01
hand signals there too she's like trying to explain something to someone listen I love to kill multiple people
00:40:07
in a short amount of time it's what I do okay Okay. She was born in 1793. Okay. So we're back where you are. Here we are. These might be parallel stories. People are in the dungeon. She might have been killing people. Okay. There was nowhere to go in Charleston. And that's pretty much, aside from her being born in 1793, that's pretty much all we know about her for sure. They don't know anything about her early family life, or at least I don't.
00:40:40
my level of research. And that's basically, yeah, that's all that matters. I bet you there is some kind of a history professor
00:40:48
in this audience right now who's like, I can tell you a couple things about... Don't know about her early life or her family
00:40:55
or where she was born or her maiden name or really anything at all, but... We told you, nothing.
00:41:00
Nothing. One thing is very clear, that she spent most, if not all, of her life and did all of her crimes in Charleston, South Carolina.
00:41:10
Um, yeah. So, in 1810, she would have been 17. I'm just trying to do the math in my head of, like, when this is.
00:41:19
Because, literally, there aren't years until, like, near the end when she gets arrested.
00:41:24
So... It's like history didn't like women or something. It's weird. It didn't care.
00:41:28
It's like, female killers weren't as important. Yeah. We can hazard a guess that the following events began sometime around, like, 1810, 1815.
00:41:38
Great. they're about rough estimate as the crow flies. All right. So just to talk about America in 1810 and in South Carolina at the time,
00:41:49
40 years after the American Revolution. So actually not close to your time. Well, we were there. We were just there.
00:41:54
We were nearby So this is baby America Cotton is king In this area of course slavery is legal Charleston used to be the capital of South Carolina
00:42:07
Early, early days. Did you know that? I did. Are you guys mad about that film? They moved it up to Columbia.
00:42:17
Congratulations. Congratulations on your win, your big win. That's right. Columbia is more central to the state.
00:42:27
So all those lazy legislators were like, can we just meet in the middle? We're always going to the coast.
00:42:37
But that happened in 1786. So I watched an educational video that was for children from probably 1977.
00:42:48
It's one of the funniest things I've ever seen. because it just kept showing like the manor houses.
00:42:53
So they talked about how the plantation owners who lived out in the country, obviously to have their big, huge farms,
00:42:59
they would come in and build these big, beautiful houses in Charleston. And then there's just all these children dressed in period clothes,
00:43:07
but with like 70s hair who are like walking, looking at the camera and like walking up steps.
00:43:13
Like, is this how you want me to do it? Or like opening a weird drawer. and the best fucking part is
00:43:19
they're just trying to explain like how daily life was for rich people back then and
00:43:25
they had, oh this is on knowitall.org so you too can go and watch this same video and learn as
00:43:33
I did about your amazing state it also started with the shape of the state and then it
00:43:39
said SC in it and I was like like I've never been taught anything I love to learn
00:43:47
So at one point They go out on the port And talk about how the children of the day
00:43:55
Used to play on a thing called a joggling board What? Are you fucking serious? You guys had to do that too?
00:44:05
I was in my hotel room Cry laughing at the joggling board I don't know what that is
00:44:11
So we'll tell you what a joggling board is Tell me You know how seesaws are like way too fun and scary and like do a bunch of shit and you can't trust where they're going to go?
00:44:22
Well, if you took a much thinner piece of wood and put it on your front porch and then maybe put a little thing under this end so it was higher up on one side and then you just stood on it and bounced up and down.
00:44:34
That's a fucking joggling board. According to this video. It's a super vintage trampoline is what you're saying.
00:44:40
It's a trampoline with no risk. It's a seesaw with no fun. It's a piece of wood.
00:44:50
20 bucks, if we were to try it right now, we'd be like, oh, this is kind of awesome.
00:44:53
Oh my god, I love this. It's a good thigh workout? Oh my god, it's so good for your lymphatic system.
00:45:01
If I saw a joggling board on an infomercial and they were like, you lose weight and drain your lymphatic system,
00:45:08
I'd be like, $89.99? Yes, I'll do joggling boards. Please. And it also sounds like someone was like,
00:45:15
some kid was fucking around with this thing and his mom was like, if you don't tell me what that is right now,
00:45:19
I'm going to get mad. And he was like, it's a juggling. Like, just made up some dumb thing.
00:45:23
What are you kids doing out there? What, you're juggling? I love it. I'm with it.
00:45:29
I'm here for it. The idea that you cheered for joggling boards. God damn it, Charleston.
00:45:34
I love you. That is... It's special. Remind me when the hometown person comes up, we have to be like,
00:45:44
did you have a joggling board when you were a child? What is this? Okay. So, essentially, Charleston was the big city.
00:45:55
People were constantly traveling to it, leaving it for business and trade and bartering at the harbor, as we talked about before.
00:46:02
Um, and whatever else the rest of the video said that I didn't watch because once the joggling board part came, I was like, I've seen enough, I've learned everything I need to learn today.
00:46:12
And this acting sucks. Come on, stop looking into the camera. Um, now you have to think of it, it's 80 years before the first car is built. It's before the first railroad.
00:46:25
road. So there's just, it's like impossible to get anywhere at any time. And so everyone's
00:46:29
traveling like by horse or, you know, carriages or whatever on these roads. I think they have
00:46:35
Ubers for carriages. Nope, it's a taxi. Nevermind. Go on. I answered my question. Um, so there
00:46:45
were these things back then called highwaymen and they were basically the dudes that would
00:46:50
rob you when you were just like going down the road by yourself on your horse. And, uh...
00:46:58
What? Going down. Here's you, dumb, on a horse. Dumb. Gun. Oh no. Highwaymen, give us all
00:47:08
your weird leather bags filled with the balloons and tea. Okay. So there were groups of them
00:47:18
like gangs of them and stuff. and our girl... There's actually a music group called The Highwaymen. Yeah.
00:47:23
That's right. With Johnny Cash, right? Anyways. I figured you guys would know because this is the South, but no.
00:47:30
So our girl Lavinia Fisher hooks up with a highwayman herself. John Fisher. That's not her
00:47:37
maiden name. Fisher is her married name. So we know by all the accounts of her, she was very beautiful and she was very charming.
00:47:46
And so I like to think she was like a rich girl with a personality disorder. Like she like
00:47:51
had it all but she was like fuck you mom I'm not marrying that guy. I can go out and start
00:47:55
robbing people on the road. I've had with this life of luxury. So she could have married a Captain Butterscotch
00:48:05
or a Dr. Bramble Bones or whoever, whoever her neighbor was or whoever her dad was going to fix her up with.
00:48:11
She could have just played jiggly board. What was it called again? She could have joggled and joggled
00:48:15
for the rest of her life. But no, she was like, not enough for me. I would love to pull a gun on someone
00:48:21
and really live. So she marries John Fisher, the highwayman. And so what we know for sure is
00:48:28
they get married, I mean, they become active with a gang of highway robbers, and they don't
00:48:37
know exactly if she was doing, if she was actually like holding a gun or a musket or whatever,
00:48:45
or just a long finger with a furrowed brow, give me your money, or if she was just kind
00:48:53
of like aiding and abetting, but essentially she was a part of this gang, and eventually,
00:48:58
And they don't know if John and Elivineo bought their, because they ended up buying an inn,
00:49:05
and it's called the Six Mile Wayfarer House, located how many miles away from Charleston?
00:49:11
Six miles. Let Georgia answer. Six miles. That's right. Thanks, guys. They helped me cheat.
00:49:20
Not to be confused with the Five Mile Inn, which was one mile down the road. I'm not joking.
00:49:26
They weren't big into names back then. I clearly wasn't paying attention to the name of that place.
00:49:33
So they don't know if they bought it with their robbery money or if they just killed the previous owner and took over.
00:49:40
I bet that one. I bet it's number two. Yeah. So they basically take possession of the six-mile wafer house,
00:49:47
the six-mile inn, essentially. And we know that Lavinia had no problem with crime,
00:49:52
whether she was just kind of making dinner for everybody or whether she was doing it herself.
00:49:56
so here's how they did here's how they did their crimes she would go into Charleston
00:50:02
and she would lure men back to the six mile inn inviting them to dinner possibly drinks
00:50:10
maybe some nice music maybe music, a little chit chat about a news of the day and probably getting them drunk
00:50:18
so that then they would need to stay there to sleep it off and as they turned in for the night
00:50:24
she would offer them a cup of tea and yes what does that remind you of poison right that's right what else the center
00:50:34
watch the center so good karen texted me the other night wednesday night when the center is everyone watching it when the center
00:50:43
it was the final episode final episode it was season two is the middle of the final episode
00:50:48
we were in our i'm not gonna do it i'm telling you she's sex me sexed me I was like
00:50:56
Hey, are you busy this weekend? Nice save, nice save, thank you She essentially said
00:51:06
I can't believe the blank blank did it And I was like, did you just fucking spoil this for me?
00:51:12
Now I'm going to retell the story Of the way it actually happened We talked about watching the sinner together
00:51:19
Before we left for the trip at the airport and then all the way up until the thing we always do, which is we're like, let's do a thing.
00:51:28
And then we're like, I'm tired. I'm going to stay in bed. We're going to order room service.
00:51:32
So I assumed, because I was obsessed with, I was like checking the time. I looked it up on the internet to make
00:51:38
sure that I was not going to miss it. So I was so on it. And we were texting about something else. And I
00:51:43
did text you. Careful, don't give a spoiler away. Bloody, simple fact with not a lot of
00:51:49
words like she just said. But it did have one word in it that was key. And then I was just like, oh, no.
00:51:58
I don't care. If it's happening to me, it's happening to you. So I was like, we're watching the center right now.
00:52:06
There's no question in my mind. Sorry, Georgia. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.
00:52:14
I'm really sorry. Let's go to therapy and talk about it. Okay. So bringing it on back.
00:52:20
Tea. Tea. The tea. Got it. She gives them tea and it's fucking laced, of course. So these men go up into bed and there's a lot of different versions.
00:52:32
Of course, this is a lot of legend because it's a very old story. But basically here are the several methods that are known of the way that they would rob these men that she brought Lord back to the inn.
00:52:45
she would she would give them the tea they would get like basically high off of it and go to
00:52:54
sleep and then while they were sleeping they would rob the people get all their shit off
00:53:00
of them so they couldn't fight back and then once they were done robbing them they would flip the bed over
00:53:06
and the floorboards would separate open up and there was a pit underneath the bed
00:53:11
that they would dump the body into And some say the pit had spikes at the bottom.
00:53:19
That turned real quick. I'm like, take us some tea. You're like, thanks for the lamb chop, Lavinia.
00:53:25
I think she likes me. Dead. Oh, my God. Now, also, sometimes she would give them the tea.
00:53:36
They would be like, well, I feel crazy. I'm going to lay down, go to bed, pass out, be high from the tea.
00:53:42
and then John would just come in and stab the fuck out of them. And then I would flip the bed over
00:53:46
and I would go, the body would go down into the basement. They sound like bad people. I think they
00:53:51
weren good Um and then they would rob them of course Sure Sure The third way And of course my favorite she would drug them get them up into bed get into bed with them and then crush their skulls with her thighs
00:54:06
no okay now we've gone too far yes that's like impossible yes not if you really want it
00:54:25
Fair, that's fair. Clearly, clearly the legend has grown. Yeah. And, you know, that's almost like, it turns into like, oh, she was the serial killer.
00:54:36
To like, yeah, imagine what she would do to you. Imagine. Imagine. If you were all drugged up.
00:54:41
I mean, I'd be cool if it was at least like, fun, like her thighs. Yeah, there's like a rapper that is Roman.
00:54:48
Okay, so they do this for a long time. And, of course, men are going missing from out of town and from Charleston.
00:54:56
But, of course, back then it took, what, eight months to communicate anything in any way.
00:55:01
So it's all very slow going. And every time they would go to the Six Mile Inn, they would look.
00:55:07
Somebody would say, this person, this is my husband, this is my son, they've gone missing.
00:55:12
And the police would go look into it. They would figure out that the last place the person was seen was at the Six Mile Inn.
00:55:17
But they would go to the Six Mile Inn, and Lavinia and her husband John were these cordial, lovely, good-looking, friendly, smart people that would say, oh, yeah, he left here, and tell them some story.
00:55:29
And there would be no evidence of anything that the person was there. There would be no indication that anything bad happened.
00:55:36
So they would all leave, and they were actually friends with a lot of the authorities and the policemen and stuff, and they would just smile and shake hands and be on their way.
00:55:46
and there would be no further investigation. I'd be like, well, we simply don't know.
00:55:51
Anyway, back to the rats. So it goes on long enough that the townsfolk are like, fine,
00:56:00
if you're not going to, we know, like, word of mouth, something crazy is happening up at Six Mile Inn.
00:56:05
This is my favorite thing about when you're trying to do research and you don't like researching.
00:56:11
And this is, so the townspeople get all the, They get like a militia together. They all grab their different weapons and pitchforks and stuff like that.
00:56:21
And this is in February of 1819. And they decide they're going to head up to the Six Mile Inn.
00:56:29
But for some reason, they only make it to the Five Mile Inn. That sounds like a joke.
00:56:35
I know. And I'm like, I checked like three websites. And I'm like, I'm not a fucking history professor.
00:56:42
but for some reason they don't make it they have to stop, whatever so they decide
00:56:50
the townspeople are like, okay, we're going to leave you stay here, a guy named David Ross, you stay here
00:56:57
and be a lookout, Dave Ross Dave Ross, he's a stand-up comic we know it's funny to the two of us
00:57:04
that's about it and to Dave Ross when he hears this which will be never Dave Ross, of course, now I can't
00:57:11
not picture a guy in like a built to spill t-shirt and a cigarette standing outside this
00:57:17
five mile in being like well fuck why do i have to do it yeah hipster guy yeah but really funny
00:57:24
really solid jokes um so and also why leave just one guy it's like oh so we're gonna go confront
00:57:32
this gang dave will you take it dude i got it i got this don't worry you guys go back home
00:57:38
so the next day a couple of the highway men that belonged to the gang that hung out at the six mile
00:57:44
and walk by and they see dave ross hanging out trying to trying to stand guard writing some new
00:57:49
jokes for his new set yeah stand up he's like he's like man they're fucking five mile in it's
00:57:55
no six mile in am i right ladies and gentlemen it's like i need to work on that and here come
00:58:01
these robbers and so they grabbed Dave Ross and beat the shit out of him and drag him back to the
00:58:08
six mile in like this guy is here to investigate us it's almost like he was only one person yeah
00:58:14
against a gang yeah weird it's almost like this was kind of the worst plan and they got the worst
00:58:21
person to be it's not like you know you picture like if you had a guy that looked like the mountain
00:58:25
from Game of Thrones. That's the guy you leave at the Five Mile Inn to stand guard.
00:58:30
I don't know that reference. Go on. Sorry. It's almost like the guy from The Sinner.
00:58:39
Okay. I'm there. Okay, so when Dave Ross gets to the Six Mile Inn and there's just all these dudes that want to
00:58:48
kick the shit out of him and all these highway men and bad guys, then he sees Lavinia's face
00:58:52
and he tries to appeal to her because he's, oh, a woman's here. She'll be nice. And he tries to appeal to her sensitive side,
00:58:59
which, of course, pisses the fuck out of her. So she chokes him out and smashes his head through a window.
00:59:06
Lavinia, chill the fuck out. No, equality, equality. Okay, okay, okay. She's like, how dare you think I'm empathetic.
00:59:18
So, let's see, what does he do? He somehow escapes. He runs six miles back to Charleston.
00:59:26
I put that in there. And he reports the incident to the authorities. So around the same time, a traveler named John Peoples is traveling from Georgia to Charleston.
00:59:41
And he stops at the six mile inn. And Lavinia is like, I'm sorry, there's no vacancies.
00:59:46
But you can have dinner and, of course, a nice cup of tea. and she did this, this is another
00:59:53
way that she decided on who to rob and kill She would just chat with them obviously during dinner and ask them a bunch of questions like what do you do for living How much money do you have in your pocket Doctor oh my god that crazy And she would just milk them for information
01:00:07
and then they would decide if that person should stay there so that they could rob and kill them.
01:00:12
The entire time, John Fisher is just kind of standing off on the side staring, which is such not a good plan at all.
01:00:21
Yeah. The husband should go. I mean, if you need to do this now, and you may, for this plant.
01:00:29
So this guy, John Peoples, is getting the weird, he's like, this is the weirdest fucking place I've ever come to.
01:00:36
And as he's answering these questions and John's staring at him, he's like, this vibe is odd.
01:00:41
When she gives him the tea, just by chance, he doesn't like tea. So when she's not looking, he dumps it at her in a potted plant.
01:00:50
Did they have potted plants back then? a spittoon maybe of some kind or onto a poor person.
01:01:00
Whatever they did back then. So then suddenly, Lavinia's like, after she sees the tea's gone, she's like,
01:01:08
oh my god, we do have a vacancy. Come right this way. And she brings him up to the room.
01:01:13
So once he's in the room, he's thinking about it. And he's like, they're shaking me down. This is not good.
01:01:19
So instead of getting into the bed and going to sleep, he sleeps by the door in a chair.
01:01:26
So he basically can stay awake and, like, he's nervous. And in the middle of the night, the bed, he wakes up to this loud crashing sound and the bed has disappeared.
01:01:36
So he walks over and looks down and sees that the trap door is open. Wait, they would drop the whole fucking bed into the trap door?
01:01:44
Well, that's the way this was worded from, you know, Wicca-fucking-pedia. So, we don't know.
01:01:50
We don't know. I like the idea that they had all different rooms and the bed could do all kinds of things in the room.
01:01:58
Or they just, like, had extra beds in the back and, like, they would just, like, go through beds every night
01:02:03
because they would all drop through the... Maybe Lavinia was, like, an heiress to a bed fortune.
01:02:08
She's just like, I'll get another bed from my dad, assholes. Yeah, yeah. Either way, he fucking sees the pit, he sees the whole deal,
01:02:17
jumps out the window, gets on his horse, goes back to Charleston, is like, hello, I need to talk to the authorities.
01:02:24
They're like, sorry, we're talking to Dave Ross right now. We can get in line. We've got all these rats to deal with.
01:02:31
He's trying to do a set. So... Uh-oh, oh my gosh. They... The police finally go,
01:02:41
and they have a real reason to investigate the Six Mile Inn, and they start investigating the rooms.
01:02:47
Oh, I picked this up too early. And when they're there, of course, they discover dozens of travelers' belongings.
01:02:55
These missing people, all the belongings are there. Driver's license. Key rings.
01:03:03
They find an herb that could knock you out for as long as need be. All the evidence is piling up.
01:03:11
Then they find hidden passages. and then they find the mechanism that triggers the trap door
01:03:18
in the floorboards under the bed. And then they go into the basement where they find hundreds of sets of human remains.
01:03:26
Oh my God. So they just basically just dumped them all down there kind of like your dungeon.
01:03:32
Just like, just leave them there. I guess it's like if life already smells really bad in general,
01:03:38
you're not going to notice the smell. Yeah, it's like, no, we shit in like, The corner.
01:03:45
Yes. In a bucket in the corner. So, it's cool. Just don't worry about it. Yeah, yeah.
01:03:53
So, the Fishers are arrested, of course. They plead not guilty. The judge orders them to remain in Old Charleston Jail until the trial.
01:04:00
That's what I was waiting for. There it is. Still standing to this day, right? Apartments?
01:04:07
Are they apartments? I would live there. The Old Charleston Jail lofts. It's an open floor plan filled with ghosts.
01:04:16
Oh, that's beautiful. Isn't it gorgeous? I honestly would fucking live there. There's offices?
01:04:24
She said, there's an office! And then went, woo! Like, cheered for herself. I got one in!
01:04:32
You did. Great job. On September 13th, 1819, Lavinia and John try to escape by the old classic
01:04:42
tying all the sheets together in a sheet ladder. When has that ever worked? I mean, it doesn't work here. John
01:04:49
gets out, but the sheet chain breaks before Lavinia can get down. Yeah, dude, it's fucking Scooby-Doo shit.
01:04:56
It's not gonna work. He's like, when you get down here, I have a huge sandwich that no one could ever eat.
01:05:02
And a talking dog. But here's the thing about John, he doesn't leave her. He fucking
01:05:11
allows himself to get recaptured and try to take the heat off of her. Are you crying? No.
01:05:18
I don't cry. Not at all. No, but that's very sweet. I think it's beautiful. They both are found guilty of robbery.
01:05:29
Which at the time was a hangable offense. Sure. It's just basically how they took care of business back then across the board.
01:05:36
They also got murder. Okay, good. I was hoping that one would stick, too. Once you get hanging, it's
01:05:43
all gravy. Right. They're sentenced to be hung in the old gallows behind the old Charleston jail
01:05:49
until they die. Until they die. Yeah. February 18th, 1820 John accepts his fate and he only pleads to the priest to save his soul not Lavinia Lavinia fucking She pissed In court she says I can be hung I a wife
01:06:08
And so the judge goes, okay, well then we'll just hand your husband first. Oh, shit, dude.
01:06:15
Yeah. Yeah. It's like a rap battle. Like an early fucking insult battle. Oh, you think you have a solution?
01:06:24
Yeah. Watch my mind at work. Yeah. So then the next trick she had up her sleeve was she walked out to get hung in her wedding dress.
01:06:36
Because she believed that if people, if somebody in the crowd, because as you're saying, it's like people love to show up for hanging.
01:06:43
Sure. That was like the thing to do. That was like Shakespeare in the park for these people.
01:06:49
so she figured she would look beautiful in her wedding dress and maybe a man would want to marry her real quick
01:06:55
and you can't hang a bride doesn't work no one's into her no one thinks she's hot
01:07:01
because also you gotta think about like I'm thinking of like a Vera Wang there's like bling as they say
01:07:08
and poofy sleeves no this is just like fucking white rags whiteish rags it's several white rags sewn together
01:07:15
that she tried to escape with and it didn't work She makes a wedding dress out of a tied-up Scooby-Doo sheet
01:07:22
Hey! Save me? Want to save me? I killed everybody, want to save me? So, of course, it doesn't work
01:07:33
Then she refuses to walk So they have to drag this poor murderous bride Across the gallows
01:07:42
And with the noose around her neck She rants and raves while all the Charleston socialites
01:07:48
listen to her scream these words. If you have a message you want to send to hell,
01:07:53
give it to me. I'll carry it. Holy! What the fuck? That's the most badass fucking thing I've ever.
01:08:06
And just screaming to like the real housewives of the 1800s. They're all like spinning their umbrellas.
01:08:12
What the fuck did she just say to us? She looked right at me. Holy shit! She wasn't just America's first female serial killer, she was also the first Bridezilla.
01:08:28
Thank you, I just thought of that right now. That was amazing. Not written on this page.
01:08:33
That was amazing. Um, then... Oh wait! Final move, which actually makes me love her 100%.
01:08:41
She fucking jumps off the scaffold. She fucking did it herself. Oh my god! Because you probably die quicker, right?
01:08:50
I don't know, but I love that fucking idea. Like, the guy's sitting there waiting to, like,
01:08:54
drop the floor out from under her, which is her move. And it said she's like, Do you have a message to her?
01:09:03
Man. They got what they paid for. Spitting. Love you, Lavinia. She's like, hold my beer, I guess.
01:09:17
She's like, watch this. Oh my god, watch this. This is going to be nuts. And then shows her wedding dress.
01:09:27
The residents say that LaVinia still haunts the old jail. She does. They say that her ghost has been seen in the cells
01:09:38
walking around and wearing her wedding dress. It has, for sure. Amazing. And that's the story of Charleston's LaVinia.
01:09:47
That was a journey. That was amazing. I'm so thankful I went first. Because how the fuck would I follow that shit
01:09:59
for the fucking dungeon sword? If you have a message from hell. I mean, for hell.
01:10:09
That's such a great idea. What if someone in the back is like, oh, I'd like to tell my asshole uncle to fuck off.
01:10:14
She jumped off the scaffold. She didn't mean she was going to take my message. Just little pieces of paper handed over to her.
01:10:25
I really hate it. Oh, God, really? I'm so sorry that happened to you. Jesus Christ.
01:10:33
While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
01:10:39
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01:10:50
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01:10:55
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01:11:03
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far-off concept.
01:11:11
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
01:11:17
If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about.
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It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn. Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible, spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers, and comedy.
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Terms and conditions apply. See Pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Wow, Karen.
01:12:18
As the applause said, great job with that one. Are you seconding the applause? Wow, I double down on that applause, Karen.
01:12:28
Thank you. And thank you. 2018 applause. Yeah. I feel like it was yesterday. I wish I could go back on that stage and warn everyone about coming.
01:12:38
Distance. OK, so mine actually is timely. It's a Thanksgiving Day killing. So it's perfect timing.
01:12:48
Next week is Thanksgiving and you don't have to see your family. Congratulations.
01:12:53
Yeah. You automatic get out of family function. For free? Yeah. Come on. Like, have you asked for a bigger gift ever and gotten it?
01:13:03
I mean, no. Just party, party, party, party, party. OK, this story is from Minneapolis, Minnesota, one of our favorite fucking towns.
01:13:12
Hell yeah. We did a show on May 19th, 2019 at the Northrop Auditorium. Beautiful place.
01:13:20
And so this is the crazy story of murderer Byron David Smith and the Thanksgiving Day killings.
01:13:29
Oh, shit. Can we get security? Security. That way? Just like just hanging out, you know, it's almost like with like Lincoln.
01:13:37
There should have been like some security security at the door. You know, it's easy to judge now in modern times.
01:13:43
But back then, all they had were lanterns and hope. Lice. Don't forget. Oh, and don't forget those bed bugs.
01:13:54
Did you? I recently read an article that bed bugs survived the asteroid that killed all the dinosaurs.
01:14:02
That's pretty awesome. Bed bugs lived. That's cool. Roaches. Was it roaches or bed bugs?
01:14:07
It was bed bugs in the article I read. Okay. But we can definitely talk about roaches because that's just as gross as bed bugs or barf.
01:14:16
Have you ever had bed bugs? No. I have to say that five and a half months of traveling and we haven't had a single scare,
01:14:24
I think I'm waiting every fucking time I get home to start itching. Oh, I've never even thought of that.
01:14:30
Well, I think about, I'll tell you all the fucking things I worry about. We're going to get rid of all of it tonight.
01:14:36
It's fun being up in here. All right. Let me tell you, about 100 miles outside of Minneapolis in Morrison County is a small town of Little Falls.
01:14:48
Oh, not so small. No, they're all here tonight. Small. Small but mighty, Little Falls.
01:14:56
That's right. It's one of the oldest European American cities in Minnesota. The river town, it's a river town, and the slogan is,
01:15:03
where the Mississippi pauses. Aww. How? I don't know. Maybe they built a dam. I don't know.
01:15:11
No. It's just like, it's like idyllic as fuck, and like, everyone loves it. It's chill.
01:15:16
I don't know if that's true. It's the feeling you're getting. Yeah, it's idyllic.
01:15:21
But not so in 2012 for 64-year-old Little Falls resident Byron David Smith. Yeah, he is a local curmudgeon, I called him.
01:15:33
Is he a real crumb? He's a real crumb. Tell them why that's funny. We had a... This is just going to be a series of sidebars.
01:15:43
Apology. We all stumble out of here in two hours. whisper to your drag along, it's usually better than this.
01:15:49
We got it. In Milwaukee, we had a woman come up named Stacy who told her hometown, and she was amazing.
01:15:57
And at one point, while she was describing the terrible murder, I think by hand, of a husband killing his wife,
01:16:06
and she told some really specific and terrible detail, and the whole audience went, ooh, and she goes,
01:16:11
I know, he's a real crumb. Karen lost her shit. I had a full-on nervous breakdown.
01:16:19
It was so inappropriate. So he was, yes, he was a real crumb. He was a real crumb.
01:16:26
So he lives in a home in a secluded area near the Mississippi River and on a bunch of acres of land and shit.
01:16:34
And he's fed up at this point in 2012 of his house being broken into. Let me show you a picture of him.
01:16:40
He sucks. Okay, there he is. All right. Right. Yeah. So it had been going on for about a year, these break-ins. And first was someone breaking
01:16:53
into his garage and they like had smashed stuff and like tipped things over and stolen some things
01:16:59
and like his old military clothing. And by late 2012, his house had been burglarized at least
01:17:04
half a dozen times over the preceding few months. Wow. And he had only reported one of those
01:17:09
burglaries to police and investigators found evidence of only two previous burglaries.
01:17:14
but among the items stolen were $4,000 in cash, his father's POW watch, and some of his medals from Vietnam,
01:17:22
coins from his collection worth around $5,000, and a bunch of other shit, and they had also stolen his guns,
01:17:28
which he said had scared him, because now they have his guns. Oh, he's not scared of his own guns?
01:17:36
Yeah. I leave them in a room by themselves, because I don't want to be near them,
01:17:41
and now someone else has them. Right. And that's when trouble starts. Yeah. When, so then a friend of his, who is a neighbor,
01:17:49
saw a local teenage girl walking to the bus stop wearing his army jacket that he knew was his And so he fucking pissed off because so because he Byron Smith had been trained a trained security engineer for the U State Department So security was his fucking thing
01:18:06
He was in charge of... He clearly wasn't. Right. That's correct. He didn't bring his work home with him in any way, apparently.
01:18:16
He had gone to embassies all over the world and had been in charge of making sure their embassies were secure.
01:18:22
until 2006 in his retirement when he moved back home to the house with his mother,
01:18:28
and then his mother had died about a year before. So I'm sure, I wrote, I'm sure his ego was kicked in the dick
01:18:34
when he found out a teenage girl was breaking into his home. Well, yeah. That doesn't feel good.
01:18:40
But we're like, teenage girls are wily bunches. They're fucking, they're scrappy as fuck.
01:18:45
That's right. So he began wearing a holster with a loaded gun inside his house and installed a security system in his home as well.
01:18:54
So now we get to Thanksgiving Day 2012. Smith had been visiting with his neighbors
01:19:01
when he saw a car that he thought was casing his home. He then commented to the neighbors that he was visiting
01:19:07
that he needed to get ready for her and went to his home to prepare himself for a break-in.
01:19:13
First, he drove his vehicle down the road out of the parking, his driveway, they call him.
01:19:20
He drives his vehicle off his driveway and down the street, parking in front of a neighbor's home,
01:19:26
so it looked like no one was home in his house. Then he went back to his house. He removed light bulbs from the ceiling light so it was dark,
01:19:34
and he positioned a comfortable chair. It's a fucking lazy boy, let's be honest.
01:19:39
In the basement, so that it would be obscured from the view of someone walking down the basement stairs.
01:19:45
So that's his fucking recliner. between those two bookcases. And then, see that bookcase on the right?
01:19:55
In between that bookcase and the other one is where his recliner is. So the person walking downstairs wouldn't see him.
01:20:00
Wouldn't know someone's sitting there. Exactly. And there's a Tiffany lamp and, you know, shit like that.
01:20:06
He still has exquisite taste. Even though he's a super creep. Yeah. Okay. So he also loads two guns, a revival...
01:20:15
Nope. a revolver and a rifle, which if you put them together would be called a revival.
01:20:21
A revival. I'm not wrong. I just invented a new fucking gun. Don't be so intimidated by her brain.
01:20:29
Yeah, Stephen, trademark that. That was the best I've ever done. Okay. And at the bottom of the stairs,
01:20:39
he sets down a tarp so that if he shoots anyone, he can wrap the body in at the bottom.
01:20:45
stairs. So he's prepping. He is taking the law into his own hands. He settles into his reading
01:20:53
chair with water, snacks, and a novel and waits for someone to break in. What book by Jackie
01:21:03
Collins do you think he was reading? I tried to find out what book he was reading. Did you? And
01:21:08
I was like, that's not important, Georgia. What's wrong with you? Georgia, it's 5.56. You have to
01:21:14
finish this. Yeah, it turns out your show starts at seven and not eight. You didn't know that.
01:21:19
Get your shit together. Get it together. Okay. So later that day, he's sitting in his chair
01:21:26
watching his video surveillance footage from outside the house that he could set up all these
01:21:30
video cameras. And I have to say, go ahead. It's just that it is a fun thing to do. Have you ever
01:21:36
watched when people have security cameras and you can just watch innocent people who don't know
01:21:40
they're on camera just walking around my friend had an apartment where one of the channels on the
01:21:46
tv was no the front door like closed circuit television is that legal i it was in 1995
01:21:53
and so we would literally sit around his apartment drinking beer and watching the front door
01:21:58
and we did it one time and we were all shit-faced and some of our friends started leaving it was
01:22:03
blanket patch and laura milliken and they walked out and walked up and thrown the camera and then
01:22:08
Blaine started strangling Laura. It was like a little silent TV show play of a murder.
01:22:14
Yeah, but what if someone else in the building was watching that too? Right? Exactly.
01:22:19
Exactly. Wow. The best. I thought that was, that's like such a stoner thing to do.
01:22:25
It's just like sit and watch that. Thank you. It was 95. You're welcome. Okay. All right.
01:22:31
Settles into his fucking asshole chair. Okay. So, he's watching his chair. Nope.
01:22:37
He's sitting in his chair. Mm-hmm. He's watching the surveillance video. One of the cameras could have been pointed toward that chair.
01:22:42
That's true. And you can see all this. I wouldn't recommend it, but you can see this video,
01:22:48
surveillance on all these fucking shows. And it captures 17-year-old Nick Brady casing the property
01:22:54
before he breaks a window and sneaks in. So downstairs, Smith hears the window break
01:23:01
and proceeds to wait in silence for 12 minutes as Nick looks around in the house
01:23:07
And then he starts to go downstairs. Like in those 12 minutes, he could have called the cops.
01:23:12
He had a phone right next to him and said, someone's breaking into my house. He could have done all of that.
01:23:16
He doesn't. He waits in silence with a gun. Well, because at this point, they've been fucking with the wrong person, essentially.
01:23:21
And he's pissed. Yeah. And he has been broken into. It's a bad combination. It's like the perfect storm.
01:23:28
Right. Yeah. Exactly. Okay. And so, but he doesn't want, you know, he doesn't want the cops to be there.
01:23:35
Otherwise, he would have called them. Yeah. He wants to take care of business. So 12 minutes after he breaks in, Nick begins to descend the stairs into the basement.
01:23:42
And as soon as Byron Smith, in his chair, sees Nick's legs and hip, he shoots him twice.
01:23:51
And Nick falls to the bottom of the stairs onto that tarp that he had set up and shoots him again in the head point blank Whoa It fucked up Then he wraps Nick body in a tarp and drags him into the other room
01:24:05
And there's like blood and stuff on the carpet. And so he takes a rug and covers it.
01:24:11
Which is like, you know, he does it so that when someone else comes in, they won't see that that's had happened and won't run.
01:24:19
They'll come downstairs. Yeah. Which is insane. It's like a trap. Yes. So, da-da-da-da-da, he washes his hands, some time goes by,
01:24:27
and then he runs back to his chair and reloads his weapon and takes up his previous position in the obscured chair.
01:24:34
And this is because, the reason he goes back to his chair, is because not long after he had killed Nick,
01:24:39
he had spotted Nick's 18-year-old cousin, Haley Kiefer. She was a senior at Little Falls High School,
01:24:46
and she had been sitting in the car waiting for her cousin Nick. She knew he was breaking in, and she had just been waiting in the car for him.
01:24:54
They were very close, the cousins, Nick and Haley. They were more like siblings than cousins.
01:24:59
And in the show Hear No Evil on Discovery ID, which is so brilliantly named, it's just, you know, murders that have sound things in them.
01:25:08
What do you mean? Hear No Evil, like recordings. Oh. Get it? Yeah, now I do. Because I explained it so well, I'm surprised you didn't get it on the first one.
01:25:16
Well, because so many things have sound things in them that I just was trying to figure out.
01:25:22
Name one. I get a grasp of you. You're right. You're right. I can't think of one thing.
01:25:32
Told you. Okay, so she had been waiting in the fucking car for her cousin to come back.
01:25:38
He's like, I'm going to run in. and they also on Hear No Evil on Discovery ID the grandfather says that
01:25:45
he acknowledges that they did some what he calls bonehead things but they were like good kids
01:25:53
so they were 17 and 18 year old bored teens in this small town and they were doing some shit
01:25:57
it's like not fucking argued that they were on a bad path but they were so young
01:26:03
so they had stopped so that Nick could break into Byron's house before the two of them were to head to the family's house for Thanksgiving dinner.
01:26:13
Right. So when Nick doesn't come out, Haley is like, what the fuck happened? She goes into the house and tries to find Nick.
01:26:22
So she's calling her cousin's name, and she makes her way down the basement stairs,
01:26:27
and Smith shoots her. She's wounded. She falls down the stairs, and Smith shoots her multiple times,
01:26:36
and including in her left eye and he, yeah, he kills her. And then he tosses her body on top of her cousins,
01:26:46
shooting her one more time and killing her. Like this was his plan. He leaves the teen's bodies in the basement workroom
01:26:53
until the following day he leaves them there. And then he calls a neighbor and asks for help finding a lawyer.
01:26:59
He doesn't call the cops. He calls his neighbor. The neighbor calls police because they're normal.
01:27:05
That's what you do. It's a basic thing. When police asked Smith why he waited until the next day to notify police of the shootings,
01:27:16
he says he didn't want to bother the police on Thanksgiving. He said if my Thanksgiving was ruined doesn't mean yours needs to be as well.
01:27:24
How big of you. I know. So Smith is brought in for interrogation, and you can watch these videos and shit,
01:27:31
And actually, Hear No Evil does a really good job of reenactments with the actual video.
01:27:36
Nope. Recorded stuff. The audio? You know. Thank you. So he calmly and politely cooperates with police and describes to them like monotone,
01:27:49
like he's having a conversation about what he had for fucking lunch. He describes to them the events that led up to the murders and matter of factly describes
01:27:56
the shootings in chilling detail. He tells authorities that he finished off Haley with a shot under her chin with a shotgun because a .22 caliber, quote, doesn't go through bone very well.
01:28:12
He's explaining it like he went deer hunting or something. And he says that Haley, after she fell down the stairs when she got shot the first time, he had tried to shoot her with a shotgun again, but it had misfire or like it wouldn't shoot.
01:28:24
What do they call it? It jammed. Thank you. and then he says that she laughed at him when he did that and so he said quote if you're trying to
01:28:33
shoot someone and they laugh at you you go again but here's the thing before settling into his
01:28:40
recliner in the basement byron smith had set up a digital recorder and there were at least six
01:28:45
hours of audio of the entire event oh my god yeah so when investigators listen they find no record of
01:28:53
Haley laughing, only her cries of fear. And you can find this pretty easily. And I recommend that
01:28:58
you don't. It's really fucking troubling. And she, after she shot the first time she's heard
01:29:05
on the recording screaming, I'm sorry. And oh my God. And he calls her a bitch and shoots her again
01:29:11
and kills her. It's horrific. I, yeah. So, and there are other inconsistencies to Brian's claims
01:29:19
of self-defense and fear. He said that he had done it because he was so scared someone was breaking
01:29:22
in his house, but it doesn't add up. Prior to the break-in, he's heard talking to himself
01:29:27
on that recording saying stuff like, in your left eye, which he had later shot, Haley in her left
01:29:34
eye, and quote, I realize I don't have an appointment, but I would like to see one of the
01:29:38
lawyers here. It sounds like he's on the phone trying to get a lawyer. When they look at his
01:29:42
phone records, he hasn't made any calls. He's just practicing saying that the next day,
01:29:48
knowing that he's doing something that is going to need to involve a lawyer. Here's the thing
01:29:52
If you had six hours recorded of somebody at their house Walking around talking By itself A non Just a person Yeah It would be the creepiest thing you ever heard Oh my God You don want to know what people are saying and practicing and fucking ranting about
01:30:09
Oh, my God. It's me yelling at my eyebrows as I pluck them and shit and then practicing.
01:30:15
I'm like, oh, really? Because I actually didn't say that. And the thing is that you said it first and I said it after you.
01:30:20
There's all that. Is that against me? We don't know. It really could be anybody.
01:30:26
There's no proof. No. There's no proof of anything. So the idea that then this is a fucking audio recording of a person who is cold-bloodedly planning murder.
01:30:35
Right. But it's so weird that he knows it's on. He's the one who recorded it in a way that was like, he did it so that he could prove that it was self-defense.
01:30:44
Because in his fucking mind, that's what he was doing. Right. So following the shootings, Smith made a number of other statements, including, quote, I'm not a bleeding heart liberal.
01:30:57
I felt like I was cleaning up a mess. I was doing my civic duty. This is all him talking to himself.
01:31:03
Yeah. And if the law enforcement system couldn't handle it, I had to do it and I had to clean it up.
01:31:09
And then he said, it's all fun, cool, exciting and highly profitable until someone kills you.
01:31:14
Like he's talking shit to these fucking teens that he just killed. Don't listen.
01:31:18
But listen if you're into that. But don't. It's terrible. You shouldn't listen. I will not ever.
01:31:24
I don't want to listen now. So Smith's recorded statements and the evidence indicating he had planned the shootings,
01:31:33
along with the excessive number of shots fired, led to Smith being indicted on two counts of first-degree murder in April 2013.
01:31:41
Great. Yes. He posts the $50,000 bail. and while on bail, lives with his neighbor and her 16-year-old son,
01:31:50
which I'm like, Mom, don't do that. Please, Mom. Mom, can we not? Are they sharing a bunk bed?
01:31:57
Like, what's happening? And why? And why? The charges against Byron Smith spark this huge debate
01:32:04
in the county and in the state over what's called the Castle Doctrine. So y'all love guns here, I guess.
01:32:11
We're from fucking California, and we don't do that. No? Great. No, I mean like hunting.
01:32:16
I don't mean like you guys are, you know what I mean. We're going to sink it. I swear to God, we're going to do it.
01:32:23
We're going to do it. Yeah. Just wait. Well, I read a, the reason I say that is because I was, of course, looking it up on our email account
01:32:30
and seeing if anyone had wrote in about this. And someone was from there and explaining what it was like there and said,
01:32:36
for example, when we had raffles at school, we'd raffle off shotguns. Like that was just a thing.
01:32:41
And he's like, I didn't know that was weird until I got older. Okay. Yeah, but also when you're from, like, I'm from a rural part of Northern California, and
01:32:48
everybody had a gun. Right. Boys got guns for their, like, 12th birthday. Yeah. Very common.
01:32:53
Yeah. And they're, like, shotguns and, you know, stuff like that. Right. Not, you know, not handguns.
01:32:57
Right. It's a, yeah, it's a different thing. Yes. Agreed. From Southern California.
01:33:02
I'm sorry. Okay. Irvine. Irvine. Okay. So the Castle Doctrine allows a homeowner to defend his home with lethal force.
01:33:11
But Minnesota has what's known as a reasonable person doctrine. So basically... Thank you.
01:33:17
So nice. Wouldn't that be nice? Can we have that fucking worldwide? How about a nationwide fucking reasonable person doctrine?
01:33:28
It's basically, would a reasonable person view what he had done to defend himself and his home?
01:33:37
Or what would a reasonable person do in a situation when someone's breaking into their home?
01:33:41
So legal analysts have stated that analysts... Thank you. Of course, it's like analyzed all crazy all over the place.
01:33:56
And they state that the initial shooting most likely would have been justified under Minnesota's laws,
01:34:04
but that the subsequent shots were not justified once any threat had been removed.
01:34:08
So once he realized they didn't have weapons and they didn't have a gun, which is they didn't have anything on them, that threat had been removed.
01:34:17
So Hanline University School of Law professor. The law. The fighting. You have to do it.
01:34:27
Have we already done the fighting briefcases? Nope, but there it is. Probably. Isn't that what a law school mascot should be?
01:34:35
the law professor Joseph Olson says quote I think the first shot is justified after the person is no longer a threat
01:34:43
because they're seriously wounded the application of self-defense is over and Sheriff Wetzel from there said
01:34:51
that the law doesn't permit you to execute somebody once a threat is gone and at trial the prosecution alleges that
01:34:57
Smith's actions showed aspects of lying in wait and especially like moving his car
01:35:02
so that they didn't think anyone was home lying in wait and compared Smith's setup to a deer stand a hunter would use.
01:35:08
That's what it made me think of. Yeah. Yeah. So, and the jury also learned a little bit about Smith's background,
01:35:14
including that he served in the military and he was trained in surveillance. So he, you know, was doing what had been his job, only it was with teenagers.
01:35:23
The trial lasts 17 months, during which it was debated whether Byron Smith acted in self-defense
01:35:28
or killed two teenage intruders in cold blood. and on April 29th, 2014, the jury deliberated for three hours
01:35:37
before convicting Smith on two counts each of first degree murder and second degree murder
01:35:42
with premeditation. That's right. He was immediately sentenced, so he didn't get to spend another night
01:35:51
with a 16-year-old in the bunk bed. Thank God. Immediately sentenced to life in prison
01:35:57
without the possibility of parole. Wow. yay byron smith's own audio recordings were named by the jurors as the biggest influence on their
01:36:08
decision which is so cocky of him that he thought it would show that he exonerate him right like he
01:36:14
had no fucking understanding of just humane treatment of people that he thought that this
01:36:19
would show that they deserved it somehow right so they said that that was the biggest influence
01:36:23
um and one of the 12 jurors said that quote the audio recordings pretty much convinced me that we
01:36:28
were dealing with a deranged individual. Some of the jurors later said that they believe Smith had
01:36:33
waited a full day before reporting the shootings because he had wanted to see whether other
01:36:38
burglars would show up, which makes sense. He even unscrewed other light bulbs from fixtures as night
01:36:44
fell so that any new intruders wouldn't be able to see in his basement, almost like he was trying
01:36:49
to get them more to come. After the verdicts, Morrison County Sheriff Michael Wetzel said,
01:36:54
quote, this isn't a case about whether you have the right to protect yourself in your home. You
01:36:59
very clearly do. That's a given. Rather, this is a case about where the limits are before and after
01:37:05
a threat to you or your home occurs. So yeah, which is really cool that the sheriff said that,
01:37:11
I think. So more than 500 people attended the funeral of Haley and Nick. Friends described
01:37:16
Haley Kiefer as a kind girl. She was a competitive athlete. She was into gymnastics,
01:37:22
gymnastics diving softball and cross country um nick friend said was outgoing and always seemed
01:37:28
to be smiling there's like so many photos of him smiling he worked alongside his father at his
01:37:33
tree trimming business and um you know they they were kids like we were when we were young which
01:37:39
is just trying to you know have fun and making some big mistakes that eventually you you straighten
01:37:45
out right um in 2016 smith's attorney sought a new trial but the minnesota supreme court ruled
01:37:51
that the murder conviction stood. And the justices also ruled that they ordered the Kiefer and Brady families
01:38:01
be paid more than $19,000 to cover the cost of the children's headstones. And that is the story of the murder of Haley and Nick.
01:38:10
Yeah. Wow. That's fucking heavy as shit. Oh my God, Georgia. Right? What a dick.
01:38:25
What a tale. Yeah. It's really sad. What a Thanksgiving tale. That one has stuck with me since I did it.
01:38:31
So what's our hometown? Oh, so well, the hometown is from the show that you just threw to.
01:38:37
So basically, clearly, I'm the one that shit the bed during that show. Because we would have played the whole thing.
01:38:46
I didn't think of it that way. I must have. Karen, that is toxic shame. And I refuse to let you continue that narrative.
01:38:57
Stephen doesn't like my work because he thought we shouldn't use my story in that one.
01:39:01
No, no, no. Maybe, maybe the, yeah. No, no, no. Any number of things could have happened.
01:39:06
And sometimes, sometimes what it is is like, oh, Stephen's like, guys, the recording started happening.
01:39:13
There's like things like that. It is not, it's not always, it's not always our call.
01:39:19
Over the hundreds and hundreds of live shows we've done, or at least a couple hundred, yeah.
01:39:24
I'd say. There's been a couple technical difficulties here and there. That's right.
01:39:28
But this hometown, we're going back to Minneapolis, and it basically is the way we wrapped up the show.
01:39:35
That means that if this hometown isn't fucking amazing, we're going to be mad at you.
01:39:40
So much pressure. No pressure. It means to them. This tour's over. Yeah! The man that made this tour happen, Vince Averill, everybody.
01:39:55
Thank you. He's kept us honest. We're all doing our best. He's kept us on time. Yep.
01:40:04
So let fucking do this hometown and hit the bricks Yeah for real Thank you Thanks Benz All right Okay we just tell you the rules
01:40:15
You know them, but I'm going to go over them quickly. Let us end on a high note.
01:40:20
Tell us a real good story that's from here. We would love for it to be Minneapolis or St. Paul or somewhere close by.
01:40:29
Definitely within the state. Don't bring that other outer state bullshit around.
01:40:33
We don't want to hear it. Everyone will hate your guts. You need to know it. You need to be able to tell it quickly and concisely.
01:40:43
And it should have a beginning, a middle, and an end. Not just this story tonight, but any story you ever tell anyone.
01:40:51
It's very important. Yeah. Don't point at anyone if you don't know their story, because I will blame you.
01:40:58
That's right. It sucks. And now if, as a group, you could decide amongst yourself who has the best story,
01:41:04
Pick someone. And then let the person with the best story stand. If you're a teacher, raise both your hands.
01:41:11
Oh, God. Do you want to pick the last one? What? Do you want to pick the last one?
01:41:14
No, I think you've been on a roll. You do a great job of it. Okay, with pink hair.
01:41:20
Oh, shit. Oh, Jesus. It's like the price is right. Go that way. Go that way. Oh, no.
01:41:27
Come on down. Hi, you guys. Hi. Are you all right? I don't understand how you're hanging up there.
01:41:36
It makes no sense. Gravity. From this angle, it looks incredibly dangerous. Siri.
01:41:45
Hi, Samir. It's Siri, everybody. It's Siri. Come over here. Where are you from? I'm from Egan, Minnesota.
01:41:57
Suburb. Okay. Suburb, she said. Yes. What's your hometown? Okay, my hometown murder is the attempted murder of my grandfather, Eldon Underdahl.
01:42:06
So, this is Heartland, Minnesota, 1970. About an hour and a half south of here, close to Albert Lee.
01:42:14
Boo. Yeah. And so, it's 1970 summer. My grandfather is like the pastor in town. So, he performs.
01:42:22
He's a pastor? Yes. Okay. Was. Sorry. Sorry. So he performs all the marriage ceremonies, you know, in town because it's small town.
01:42:32
And so there's this couple that is to be married soon. Small town, everybody knows him.
01:42:37
There's this weird man in town who is secretly obsessed with and in love with the woman in this couple.
01:42:44
This man is Paul R. Bankstrom. And he decides he's going to kill my grandpa to prevent the ceremony from happening.
01:42:53
Oh, my God. Very bad logic. Yeah, yeah. I think that it would like pause it, but I think maybe it's a very bad plan.
01:43:02
Yeah. So one night he drives by my grandfather's house and shoots four bullets into the house.
01:43:12
One goes into my dad and uncle's room, like could have hit one of them. I could like not exist, you know.
01:43:20
Heavy. Yeah. Yeah. But like no one dies. they like wake up they're like like what is that how old are they um like kids are ranging from like
01:43:30
nine to 14 oh at this point yeah and so they're like what's going on and the um my grandparents
01:43:38
are like just go to bed we'll take care of it um go back to bed in the room that just got shot up
01:43:44
yeah and so um but like the man paul bengstrom he just drives to the police department and like
01:43:53
confesses and turns himself in and so i mean he gave up pretty quick but it is nice yeah nice of
01:44:01
him it is but um so no one in my family got killed but um his mother who he lived with he shot and
01:44:08
murdered her shortly before driving to my grandfather's house oh no yeah so like the threat
01:44:13
is super real. Oh my god 1970s be warned And he went to prison And so yeah it was super hard to find any information about this but there was like a few articles talking about like he was getting convicted of
01:44:30
like attempted murder and like second degree murder and according to my uncle he went to prison
01:44:35
so there you go perfection amazing yeah kiri everyone great job I can feel that.
01:44:44
Amazing. Really good. Great job, darling. Yes, nice. Great job. Good job. Thanks, Sandy.
01:44:51
Oh, my God. Magical. Thank you. Thanks for participating. You know, right now we should thank everybody that used to come to our live shows, make a
01:44:59
poster, stand up, have lit up necklaces and flashlights and scream, scream to the point
01:45:08
where they were threatening us to try to get picked. point at their friend that they want to get picked
01:45:13
point at random strangers we're sorry you never got picked you'll get a chance looking like around 2023
01:45:21
cannot wait we should do a tour where we just require every audience member to get on stage and tell us any story
01:45:29
at all the whole show the whole 90 minutes is just hometown we don't even have to do homework anymore
01:45:34
it's just hometown after hometown we sit on stage we pass the mic Yeah. And we're just like, you tell us a fucking story.
01:45:44
Yeah. And then we'll decide and then I'll heckle you while you're talking. Oh, get me a wine. I guess I'm drinking wine by 2023.
01:45:53
Again. You know what? Who knows what could happen? Who knows? Hopefully. God willing. Can I just tell you this? It's popped into my head.
01:46:00
So Vince Averill, America's husband, hipped me the last time I saw you guys, hipped me to
01:46:07
using an app where someone goes grocery shopping for me. Oh, yeah. I never used it.
01:46:15
And then in the beginning of quarantine, people were kind of trying to, it sounded like people were saying it was wrong to use them.
01:46:22
Okay. Was the feeling I got. Yeah. Or just like, you know, whatever. Yeah. And Vince, so when I brought that up to Vince,
01:46:29
he goes, yeah, just give him a big tip. And then they're already doing it. Yeah.
01:46:33
And then you're saying thank you and you're fine. And I'm like, I really need to talk to you more often.
01:46:38
So today I ordered it. And at one point, the guy had to text me and go, hey, sorry, they're all out of Haribo sour spaghetti gummies.
01:46:51
And I was like, it's fine. Just take it off. Oh, no. Like I had a conversation and he no joke.
01:46:57
He was like, they have these. And he kept telling me other gummies that they had.
01:47:02
Just humiliating you after humiliation. Hi, Elvis. Come here. It was almost like bullying, but he was trying to do his job the best he could.
01:47:11
And I truly was like, it's for the best. At one point, I text him, it's for the best.
01:47:17
Please take it off. It's for the best. It's not helping me or you anymore. I don't need that.
01:47:22
I swear, if you haven't tried Haribo sour spaghetti, I'm telling you. Is that the new one?
01:47:28
it's a new one because it's easier it's easier and less messy to eat than a nerd's rope and it also has like
01:47:34
it has a pencil eraser consistency when you're eating it stress relief so you're kind of like
01:47:40
stress relief exactly love it well thanks for listening everyone if you got to this this far then you're
01:47:46
a true follower murderino and we appreciate you we love you we appreciate you we hope you're taking it
01:47:52
easy yeah please please relax we love you stay sexy And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
01:48:01
Elvis, you want a cookie? You want a cookie? Hi, I'm Kara Clank. And I'm Lisa Trager.
01:48:18
And we are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the vicious felonies that episodes of Law & Order SVU are based on.
01:48:24
These are our stories. Dun dun tune into our new show that messed up an SVU podcast premiering December 8th on Exactly Right Every Tuesday we break down episodes of Law Order Special Victims Unit the crimes they based on and we interview actors from the show
01:48:39
Are we going to try to get Olivia Benson? Duh, of course. Are we also going to talk to the bartender who doesn't stop unloading glasses
01:48:45
while he recounts a murder victim's exact drink order? Yes. And you might be thinking, oh no, do I have to have seen all 479 episodes to enjoy the show?
01:48:53
No, you don't. We have done that for you. Hello, USA Network. Thanks for all your characters.
01:48:59
We'll take you through the episode and then do a deep dive into the true crime it's based on.
01:49:03
Look, it's SVU, so we're covering some pretty messed up cases. But we're comedians, so we're also going to talk about Benson's hair.
01:49:10
Yeah, you're going to get it all. Classic cases like Mary Kay Letourneau, Casey Anthony, and Elizabeth Smart.
01:49:15
And lesser known cases like the Ken and Barbie killers, the Collier brothers, and the Boogeyman of Westfield.
01:49:22
Join us as we learn new things. Why does anybody go to Hudson University in the SVU universe?
01:49:30
It is literally riddled with rapes and murders. In real life or on SVU, there is always problems.
01:49:36
Hudson University is not real. Oh, it's not? Wow, learning something every episode.
01:49:41
I did not know that. And we share super deep observations. The news gets out. She's a cyber bullier and there's like a Beauty and the Beast style like brigade.
01:49:52
Oh, yeah. A mob goes to her house, which I always find so funny. And it's like in New York City, people don't talk to their neighbors.
01:49:58
But in this show, people are constantly like at a neighbor's house, like, get out of here, you rapist.
01:50:03
We've got opinions on judges. Judge Palumbo. He is disgusting. I'm getting chills thinking about this judge.
01:50:11
Lawyers. Buchanan like for sure got his law degree at Trump University. Suspect.
01:50:16
So we meet Disser, Fidelia's baby daddy, and he's a true monster wearing gold chains and a t-shirt that says wrecking decks and getting sex.
01:50:23
And he's like DJing somewhere and trying to like use slang with iced tea. And iced tea is like, I will motherfucking kill you.
01:50:30
And our powerful, beautiful queen, Mariska. I just feel like Mariska Hargitay is physically incapable of having a bad haircut.
01:50:37
I mean, like even that spiky season two look, it's like it's still a serve. Like she does it.
01:50:41
You know what I mean? And all those moments we love SVU for. What a twist. We learned that this guy learned how to butt chug alcohol via his mother.
01:50:51
He's been helping his mother butt chug for years. And we've interviewed some incredible guest stars who spill all the tea.
01:50:58
Can I be honest? Yes. Yeah. This is truly a scoop I didn't imagine a minute in. I was like, if I don't get my interrogation with Mariska, I'm out of here.
01:51:07
I so appreciate you breaking your no interview rule for us. You're asking me this with two minutes to spare.
01:51:13
So be sure to listen to That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast when it premieres Tuesday, December 8th on Exactly Right.
01:51:21
Subscribe right now on Stitcher, Apple Podcasts or wherever you pod. Dun dun. If audiobooks are your thing or if you've been meaning to listen to more of them, you should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club hosted by Cal Penn.
01:51:39
Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres, sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more, with Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
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It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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