00:00:00
This is exactly right. Bro, from the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill?
00:00:10
Because this is our life. Backstage, on the road, it's loud, messy, real. And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.
00:00:19
Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos. Not just test tracks, real life scenes. Late nights, road trips, all of it.
00:00:26
That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by J.D. Power.
00:00:33
Yeah, you can tell. 2026 Nissan Rogue built for what really happens. For J.D. Power 2025 U.S. Initial Quality Study Award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards.
00:00:44
Awards based on 2025 model year, newer models may be shown. You're locked into a lot of things you can't change. Weather, traffic.
00:00:51
Hey, stay in your lane. Your wireless carrier's latest price hike. But you can unlock a better way.
00:00:57
Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile and save up to $600 a year. Switch to the $25 a month unlimited wireless plan.
00:01:03
No contracts, no price hikes, and you keep your phone. Stop being locked into their games.
00:01:07
Unlock the savings at BoostMobile.com slash unlock. Based on average annual single line of payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers
00:01:13
compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile unlimited wireless plan as of January 2026.
00:01:16
For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. There's a difference between liking a house and actually getting it.
00:01:22
Redfin is built to make up that difference and close the gap between finding and owning the home for you.
00:01:28
Redfin agents close twice as many deals as other agents. So when you find a home you love, you're not a step behind when it comes to making an offer.
00:01:36
That means less watching great homes disappear and more focus on the one you'll call home.
00:01:42
Redfin helps turn saved listings into real addresses. Get started at redfin.com.
00:01:48
Own the dream. My favorite murder Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder, the podcast.
00:02:12
The podcast. That's Georgia Hartstar. That's Karen Kilgariff. I thought you were going to say it with me.
00:02:17
Oh, I didn't. I was like, this is going to get old real quick. I won't. I refuse.
00:02:22
This whole thing's gotten old, everybody. What? 2020? Am I right? Am I right, ladies and gentlemen? What a year.
00:02:32
Well, I'm sitting here with my drink of choice for 2020, non-alcoholic beer. How is it?
00:02:39
It's actually pretty good. People are like, which one do you like? And it doesn't matter.
00:02:43
It just tastes like a weak pilsner. I haven't found one that I'm like, this is great.
00:02:48
You know, I find, and this is probably, we may have even talked about this, but because you just took a sip and it's in a bottle.
00:02:55
Like, I feel like whether it's in a can or a bottle or you've poured it out into a frosty glass, there's a lot of ritual around drinking that when you substitute what's in the glass, it kind of, yeah, we know that there's the escape aspect that can be nice.
00:03:11
But there is the part where if you're just, if you got a nice cold bottle with you, that does a lot.
00:03:17
It gets the job done in a lot of ways. I don't like these empty calories. It's just like at the end of the day, and I'm like, fuck, I'm stressed out.
00:03:24
I want to open a beer and fucking drink a beer. And it's like, well, that's all you want.
00:03:29
You know, I want a little bit of that tingly drunkness, but it never stops there.
00:03:34
So this works. Well, you know why? Because it starts to tingle and they're like, let's get this thing going.
00:03:41
And then the tingle turns into a full on tickle. And then you're dancing. the tickle turns into an interpreted dance in the middle of i'm gotta sing
00:03:54
how is it thanksgiving speaking thanks it was wonderful um it was also my dad's 80th birthday
00:04:02
oh yeah so i drove up to be with the family stayed in the pod um yeah a lot of people being
00:04:09
as judgmental as they can about people doing what they can do. Right. For the holidays.
00:04:17
I would say if you're starting to get into things like that, of like trying to run around and yell at people about them seeing four members of their family,
00:04:26
maybe dial it down a bit or look inside. Check in with yourself. How are you? How am I?
00:04:32
Trust that people are doing things after. We've all been in this for nine months.
00:04:37
So we know how to do things safely. and trust that we've all also had serious threats and near misses and we're scared.
00:04:44
We're all scared. Assume everyone's as scared as you. Yeah. I drove up. You should have seen me at the gas stations on the five getting out so quickly.
00:04:53
My hands are like too. They're they're horrifying. It's it's like something out of a horror movie because of the dry.
00:05:02
I've had so much sand sanitizer. anytime I'd go out and in anywhere like you're washing your hands but then you sanitize
00:05:10
because you also touch the door and you know there's a whole system but I had to be there because
00:05:16
Jim turned 80, home Jim is 80 and here's the thing, my sister was a genius because
00:05:21
she planned ahead in a way that at the time bugged me and then when it was happening I was like thank fucking god
00:05:28
yeah it's brilliant she did one of those, make a video ahead of time Totally. She sent an email to all my dad's friends, family, people that are close in our lives.
00:05:39
But I would say only about 60% of the people were able to actually make and return the videos because they're all also 80 or near 80.
00:05:50
So there were people that would just email my sister back going, I'm sorry, I can't do this.
00:05:54
I literally can figure out And it the funniest thing because you just pressed a button and started recording I feel like we should give a shout out to whatever the site is because some brilliant fucking you know person came up
00:06:08
I think it's called Tribute. Yes, that's it. It's such a smart business idea. Especially in COVID.
00:06:14
Especially. That's the thing about it. It was all these people because it was a little depressing and it was similar to our Thanksgiving, which is a little depressing because we have a huge family.
00:06:23
and there's always minimum 25 people at every holiday. Yeah. So it was a little, it was a little low key.
00:06:30
And then, um, we, you know, we did gave my dad a couple regular gifts. And then, then I was like, Oh, this is not, this is a real like downer.
00:06:40
And then I remembered my sister's video. I was like, fucking icing on the cherry on top.
00:06:45
So it was really funny. And there was like firemen in the video that he hadn't seen or talked to in 20 years because
00:06:52
they're all retired and they it's people he hadn't seen then he starts telling us these stories as
00:06:57
people show up in the video this guy one time then you guys showed up in the middle and i did
00:07:02
we didn't know what the fuck to say it was really short but it was the cute everyone's was everyone
00:07:07
kind of was just like trying to say something nice and we'll see you next year but it was the
00:07:12
cutest because i i texted you this but when my dad saw vince in georgia well sorry but he when he
00:07:19
saw Vince he went hey there's my buddy he was so surprised that you guys did it he was so it was
00:07:25
just the cutest it was and it was all these people going we love you we miss you we'll see you next
00:07:31
year type of thing so it was it was so sweet and I told you and Laura I was we were so honored to
00:07:36
be included you know it was just like nice and we love Jim so it was yeah such a good idea I mean
00:07:42
some of his best friends. It was really, it was very sweet. Yeah. But then he started telling
00:07:48
stories because of course there's all these firemen that, that, and then some, some of the
00:07:54
firemen sent my sister long emails about my dad because they couldn't make the video work and
00:07:58
pictures where she's like, wouldn't have been great if this was in their video, but she had to do it
00:08:02
like separately. It was really funny. But he started talking about this thing they used to do
00:08:07
in the firehouse. It was like, there was a picture that came up where my dad was wearing like eight
00:08:12
sombreros and he goes oh that's hat night so every a different night of the week they would have a
00:08:18
special dinner where it would be hat night one night it was nose night and he started to tell
00:08:23
the story i was like oh no no this is going to be racist this is going to be problematic there's
00:08:27
going to be and it was just like they all wore different animal noses while they ate dinner
00:08:31
it was like it was the cutest and it was stuff where he wouldn't normally like remember those stories or tell those stories or whatever it was hilarious that's adorable i love
00:08:41
that. It was really good. Can I tell you the one thing that happened of note on our Thanksgiving
00:08:47
the day before, which I was like, this is going to be great to tell the podcast. And as it's gone
00:08:53
by, I'm like, this isn't that interesting. So I'm going to make it. You know what I mean?
00:08:57
Can it beat nose night? Well, it was nose night. Well, so Vince is going to was going to brine the
00:09:02
turkey and the day before and then cook it the next day. So we have the big, huge bag out because
00:09:08
it's all this brining liquid on top of the turkey. So the turkey in the bag on the counter and we're filling.
00:09:13
I'm holding it open. He's filling it with water with all the brining shit inside.
00:09:17
And then one of the sides of the bag slips from my hand and this tidal wave of salmonella
00:09:24
fucking brine water splashed all like poured on door dine into our dining room. So we spent the rest of the day like what's it called clean like steam cleaning everything.
00:09:36
It was just this horror moment that just felt so I know that we blame everything bad now in 2020, but it was so 2020.
00:09:44
It was a classic 2020 Thanksgiving experience. Yes. Now, oh, I guess it's still poultry because I was just I always think it's just chicken with salmonella.
00:09:55
I almost don't. Yeah. Anything else? I think it's just raw meat. But I think I think I wouldn't be as freaked out about like, you know, a fucking steak because I eat raw steak.
00:10:03
It's not a big deal. But sure. Turkey is just fucking Salmonella City. You do not want to eat raw.
00:10:10
And then I don't want it on our fucking like on our beautiful rug and on our bar stools.
00:10:15
It like soaked into the bar stools. I almost I almost lost it. It was great. We didn't snap at each other.
00:10:24
Like I was like, how can I? This is his fault. I'm like, no, it's not. Damn it. Yeah.
00:10:29
Good. Hey, that's progress. Yeah. That's like holding yourself in the moment and being like, wait, now, hold on.
00:10:36
It was an accident. It was so great. It was a tidal wave. Also, from the way you just told it, it was your fault.
00:10:43
Well, right before it happened, I said, maybe we should have done this in the cooler because we were then going to transfer the bag into a cooler.
00:10:50
And right after that, yeah, it totally was me. If it was anyone's fault, it was mine because it did slip out of my hand.
00:10:55
I'm just saying based on the information you gave me. I'm not arguing that. Like if you're like, we should have done this in the cooler.
00:11:02
And here's why. And you just intentionally drop it. Thank God I like, for some reason, hoard cleaning appliances.
00:11:09
Wow, that's good. I think everything went like, you know what the funniest thing was?
00:11:15
My sister made these mashed potatoes and she made them earlier in the day. And then she had Nora and I try them and they were perfect.
00:11:24
They were so good. We were both like, ooh, like we both got big spoons. just keep on eating but it was like breakfast time but we were like these are perfect when she
00:11:33
served them at dinner time they had turned a little sour oh no and we couldn't figure out
00:11:38
like how or why and she was super bummed because obviously like mashed potatoes are the key to
00:11:46
thanksgiving and then later i was like you know and i'm kind of glad because if you had the original
00:11:50
version i would have eaten so much more but instead it was like it like those tricks sick like girls you know that use they were like if I put extra pepper I won want to eat this or that kind of shit But it just like happened to us I love that
00:12:05
I use the flakes, the like box of flakes of mashed potatoes. So it didn't taste good anyways, to begin with.
00:12:11
You do instant mashed potatoes? Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes. When it's just me and Vince.
00:12:18
I married a Midwesterner. That's what he fucking wants. That's not CYO camp. Come on.
00:12:23
That's what we do. we're not lazy we're just like like a shortcut you know true true true that is weird that
00:12:30
I just don't care I would think I care but I don't care it's best yeah like when you're
00:12:36
and then we can stop talking about Thanksgiving if you want I know when we first met Vince and I he
00:12:42
was telling me about how at Thanksgiving he has to have that green bean casserole
00:12:46
you know the one with like the fake the can of fucking cream of mushroom soup and the can
00:12:52
of fucking green beans and then the onions on top. And I, we had never had that.
00:12:57
And I was like, well, maybe we could try it. And we can make cream of mushroom soup and we can get fresh green.
00:13:01
And I started like trying to make it nicer. And he was like, no, no. He like put his foot down.
00:13:07
He's like, that's not what we fucking do. I want the trash version of it. Yes, because it has all the, that's like the, my mother's many recipes that involved several
00:13:18
cans of cream of something soup, Campbell's cream of something soup. You need the sodium.
00:13:24
You need the like preservatives. All the different things are interacting in a very specific way to get you that flavor.
00:13:30
And it just is the exact flavor you had when you were eight or whatever. Yes. I don't know why.
00:13:36
We never use cream of anything soup. And whenever we we didn't use something normal as a kid, I always just assume that the company was anti-Semitic.
00:13:45
I just assume my mom knew something I didn't like. Cream of soup companies were anti-Semitic.
00:13:52
So I probably like have spread rumors about certain companies being anti-Semitic just because we never used them.
00:13:58
And it's purely like Janet didn't like it. Exactly. My mom was really hardcore. She would not use margarine and she would not use anything but best foods, real mayonnaise.
00:14:10
Miracle Whip was, I remember being at friends' houses when the mom would make us like a turkey sandwich and it was Miracle Whip instead of mayonnaise on the sandwich.
00:14:18
I don't think I've ever had it. No way. Oh, it tastes so weird. It's like it's it's it's sweeter.
00:14:24
And like there's something else going on entirely as opposed to just this is your like sandwich meat moisturizer that you're using to get the bread down.
00:14:32
Yeah. It brings a whole like it's almost going into the ambrosia area. It's too desserty on like a turkey or salami sandwich.
00:14:44
I'm telling you, the composition of my refrigerator when I moved in with a guy from the Midwest has changed so drastically.
00:14:53
There's shit in there that I would have never like. What's the thing of not Miracle Whip, but it's the whipped cream one.
00:15:00
Cool Whip. Cool Whip. And then we have like, I would never. My mom was always big on like real maple syrup.
00:15:06
You have to use real maple syrup. And he wants the fucking log cabin or whatever.
00:15:10
So we have both of them. It's like we're a sitcom. You know, it's you know what it is. I will never not think it's a great conversation when there's a group of people at a dinner table.
00:15:25
God, I miss people. When there's a group of people at a dinner table at a restaurant or whatever, and people start talking about like, what was your blank from blank?
00:15:34
So it's like people talking about like arguing about whether Cheetos are better than cheese puffs, which I actually thought for so long.
00:15:42
I'm sure I've said this on the podcast before. I used to think cheese puffs were made for movie brand.
00:15:49
I always thought those were fake. Really? Because I was like, well, yeah. Like prop cheese puffs?
00:15:54
Prop Cheetos. Like they can't use the Cheeto brand, so they're calling them cheese puffs.
00:15:58
They're probably not. Oh, I see what you're saying. Because they look so real, too.
00:16:02
They're like, not real, fake. They look like. Yes, they do. They just look like.
00:16:06
They look like. Tiny. Tiny. They look like packing material. Yes. but orange yeah i love that what what was the thing your family ate the most you know every
00:16:17
night what was your like normal meals did you have it right yes minute rice uh frozen corn
00:16:26
like as a as a as a dessert as a vegetable you're poor poor karen my mom like my mom is
00:16:34
hardcore about it has to be real like dairy products basically but then she was like
00:16:38
She would absolutely thaw out a thing of like Brussels sprouts and boil them and then just put them straight on your plate where you're like, sorry, how as an eight year old am I supposed to get this down?
00:16:50
That's like a sitcom joke on your plate. Yeah. But Minute Rice got us through. It was always like a Minute Rice, some dry chicken breasts.
00:17:00
Yeah. We definitely did like the Rice-a-Roni thing. Yeah. Yeah. But we never my mom never did stuff like Hamburger Helper, which I was always like, oh, I wanted that standard.
00:17:10
Yeah, I did, too. Yeah. When she got a job, we stopped. But we'd go to what my my like soft spot is for Mimi's Cafe.
00:17:18
You know that place? Yeah. And that's actually when I was on Doughboys, I did Mimi's Cafe because I was like, that's my like childhood love.
00:17:25
It's like it's a faux French cafe, like Denny's type of thing for anyone listening.
00:17:31
It's just like but it's not French. at all. No. I actually never heard of it until that one that was over
00:17:38
by your old apartment. Yeah. I thought it was new, but it's been around. Oh, yeah. It was in Irvine in the 80s
00:17:44
or 90s, I think. I loved it. It was like when our family was happy. That's when we were there.
00:17:53
What else? What do you got? What are you watching What are you doing Oh shoot Okay So did you watch The Undoing The Nicole Kidman Hugh Grant No I started it and I hated it But I didn get to the twisty part
00:18:05
To the big twisty turny. Yeah. I didn't mind. I liked it. Hugh Grant, I can watch him read the newspaper. He is a brilliant actor.
00:18:13
They were great. I could stare at her pores all day long because they're not there.
00:18:19
yeah um she is how does she look younger than when she was in dead calm when she was 19 years
00:18:25
old nothing makes sense about nicole kidman it's a it's a it's a hollywood joy to watch a woman that
00:18:31
gorgeous thrive um and just continue to be in a million things right it's great but it ended um
00:18:40
and it's that thing is like it'll if i say one thing it'll be spoiler central so i know i know
00:18:45
the spoiler so i think i'll go back because i didn't find out till after we were like this is
00:18:49
fucking boring this is just fucking rich people like okay i think there's a real rich people
00:18:55
aspirational it's almost like the kardashians for adults is what it feels like we're like
00:18:59
you see donald sutherland playing the piano in that uh apartment in new york with 80 foot
00:19:06
ceilings and parquet floors and a view of the park and you're just like like that that's what
00:19:11
That's what it's all about. You know, I was in the middle of listening to this book.
00:19:16
It's called Uneasy Street by Rachel Sherman. And it's just interviews with like aspirationally wealthy people and how they live their lives and what they're all like pretty anonymous.
00:19:28
So they openly talk and they're all in New York and they're all couples. And so one couple usually has an inheritance in the other works and how that dynamic works.
00:19:37
And couple, you know, it's gay and straight couples, couples with kids, everything.
00:19:40
but it's like the it's a peek into how like generationally wealthy fucking people live
00:19:47
and i was in the middle of it so i and i was just like holy shit so that might have deterred me a
00:19:53
little sorry that's a book it was an audiobook you're it's an audiobook uneasy street yeah wow
00:19:58
it's really interesting after the undoing ended i was on streaming hbo streaming i think we're
00:20:04
We're going to talk about the same show. Is it Murder on Middle Beach? Yeah. Dude.
00:20:08
Oh, my God. Okay. When it started, I was like, someone recommended it to me. The dad did it.
00:20:15
The dad did it. The dad did it in the first episode. No. Okay, but how many episodes are you in?
00:20:19
So there's a total of four episodes. There's only three that are up right now. So we are obsessed.
00:20:24
We watched it the minute it came out. So we watched all three. How many have you watched?
00:20:29
How are you still on the dad when there's literally anyone else to choose from? That's why I said like in the very beginning, I was like, this is boring.
00:20:36
It's the dad. And then it was like, hey, switcheroo. What's up? Multi-level marketing.
00:20:40
What's up? Fucking family members. What's up? Like, what's up with the hottest fucking guy I've ever seen in my life?
00:20:45
The documentary filmmaker. Who's Zac Efron? Yeah. He is total Zac Efron. He is. 2.0.
00:20:51
But with a heartbreak. His life has been horrifying. I feel so awful for that guy.
00:20:58
Every interview. I mean, here's the thing. It's funny to match that up and it's an unfair comparison entirely.
00:21:06
But to match that up against a show like The Undoing where you can watch it trying to surprise you.
00:21:12
Yeah. Right. Yeah. And then this thing comes on and I'm just like, wait, that's someone's lived life.
00:21:18
And like it's and he's been making it for 10 years. So he's uncovering these things in this.
00:21:23
I mean, it is if you haven't seen Murder on Middle Beach. Yeah. Highly recommend and sorry for the spoilers.
00:21:29
But you'll see. Well, I don't think that's the dad. It's the first episode. And I think that that's what everyone's assuming is that it's the dad in the beginning.
00:21:36
And then it just goes off the fucking rails. I feel like it is. I just was like, it makes me feel like I'm from the most normal family of all time.
00:21:46
Definitely made me feel better about my insane family. Like, yeah. But also it made me go.
00:21:53
I think I don't know anyone from Connecticut. I think that's like more important.
00:21:58
more importantly what are those people doing over there there's some intense living in Connecticut
00:22:04
yeah and it's all like secretive it's all like no one can know how many secrets we have
00:22:10
there's it's it's about the secrets they are it's like their miracle whip the secrets in Connecticut
00:22:18
they got they got a lot of miracle whip in their closets yeah they do along with those skeletons
00:22:25
along with a 24 foot skeleton. They have a miracle whip. Now it's 24 feet. How tall is it?
00:22:33
12. Fuck, that's not as cool. I'm the one that lied and said it was 20. I bought it.
00:22:38
Because I love it. I also don't really understand like inches and feet. No. My dad yelled at me once because I said something was,
00:22:47
it was something like this where I was like, that's 12 feet tall. And he goes, what are you talking?
00:22:51
And it was like seven feet tall or something. but he goes, a ceiling's only eight feet tall.
00:22:56
And I was like, why are you acting like that's something that everyone is taught in school?
00:23:01
Whatever. Sorry, I've never, I've never put drywall. I didn't know that. I didn't either.
00:23:06
Well, now I have a six, over six foot husband to be like, if he laid down, how, how many
00:23:12
of this is with this? Yeah. For social distancing. That's what I think every time is you're certainly not one Vince away from me right now.
00:23:20
That's right. And you should be. absolutely should be. Yeah. That's so funny. Murder on Middle Beach. So fucking good. I'm
00:23:29
so glad you watched it, too. So the last episode is this Sunday. But I assume I feel like we would
00:23:35
have known if he solved it. You know what I mean? I don't know. Because the whole thing like I've
00:23:40
had you ever heard of table parties before? No, no. In like the whole multi level marketing,
00:23:47
What is it called? Pyramid scheme. Kind of like a similar thing I've heard of where it's just money.
00:23:52
You're not even selling anything. It's just like people on top and people have to buy in to get to the top.
00:23:57
I want to know what was really going on. First of all, The documentary could have been about that alone.
00:24:04
Yeah. And the dad. There's plenty. It gives and gives. I can't believe there's only one more episode.
00:24:09
I was hoping there was at least three more. Yeah. Well, I feel like. Just like sad Zac Efron has a future in movies.
00:24:18
Hell yeah. In documentaries. So we'll see more of that. This is a huge spoiler, but I'll just say this to you.
00:24:24
The part where he goes back to the house and the woman who lives there is a grief counselor.
00:24:28
lost her mom too oh and then the fact of that when he's standing in his old bedroom
00:24:35
like the thought of sitting in my old bedroom makes me teary but also your mom was killed there
00:24:40
not yeah not in his bedroom no spoiler it's just like heart-wrenching it's horrible and like he said
00:24:49
like that like my my whole life changed immediately like it just all changed like on a dime which is
00:24:56
It is that thing that makes me think of me recording this past minisode in my bedroom where it's just literally piles of like old books.
00:25:06
Your childhood bedroom. Yeah. My parents changed my bedroom like my foot wasn't out the door.
00:25:12
And my mom was just like, get rid of all of this. She fucking HTV'd that shit the minute you walked out the door.
00:25:17
She's like, we need an office and we need a place to do sit-ups with this weird machine that got put in here in 1987 and has never been touched again.
00:25:26
It never worked and it hasn't been touched. So don't worry about it. But it's still fucking here if you want to try it.
00:25:32
But it's repping. It's repping the abs we've all dreamed of. That's our aspirational abs machine.
00:25:38
I love it. In my room for some reason. I mean, are there real abs? They're only aspirational.
00:25:43
Yeah. Let's see. Murder on Middle Beach. Mandalorian. I'm kind of being forced to watch that.
00:25:49
Relationship watching it. Sure. Good. It's good practice. You give. You receive.
00:25:54
Yes. You know how I said last week that I was really obsessed with dollhouses, like mid-century modern dollhouses?
00:26:03
Okay, my new thing that I'm obsessed with scrolling are bees. Because there's this thing called cottagecore.
00:26:13
Have you heard of it? No. It's this like aesthetic lifestyle, mostly women and who have this.
00:26:21
It's almost like a like a little house on the prairie style aesthetic, like back to the prairie, making things with your hands.
00:26:28
Everything is twee and darling. And and I think, you know, like baking things. So like the quarantine is really fucking boosting it.
00:26:37
So I was like, this sounds very Mormon. It does, but it's not. But it's very millennial and like Gen Z.
00:26:41
Yeah. So I was like, what if I start raising bees in my backyard? And then I looked it up for five minutes.
00:26:52
So it's really fucking hard. So instead, I'm just following this Instagram called Mr. Dot Mrs. Bee Rescue.
00:27:00
And it's this couple in San Diego who go to like people call them like, hey, there's bees in my wall.
00:27:04
And like they just and they film it and it's fucking fascinating. Like they pull out these honeycombs and they're like, here's this is the queen.
00:27:12
And here's how old you can tell by this. and it's obsessive. It's obsessive and I'm obsessed with it.
00:27:17
Okay, well. Mr. and Mrs. Bee Rescue. You might as well say, like, I want to raise baby sharks.
00:27:26
Like bees. What more painful and violent kind of pastime? No, I'm not raising wasps.
00:27:35
Bees aren't. They're like little bumblebees, you know? They sting you. Yeah, but not me because they probably like me.
00:27:43
Oh, I see. You're the Snow White of bees. Good. Would you have a bee beard? Like in the Guinness Book of World Records?
00:27:50
It's like Little Red Riding Hood-ish, you know? Wait, that reminds me. The last movie that I saw in the movie theater, my friend Rob Drabowski and I, we were writers on our show together.
00:28:05
But then we just became, we would just go to the movies all the time. And we kind of didn't care. It was just like, let's go see a movie and see what we can find.
00:28:13
Yeah. So one of the last movies I saw in the movie theater was this documentary about a woman and it's called Honeyland.
00:28:22
Oh, and if you like bees, you might want to check this film out because it's a documentary where the documentary filmmakers went and kind of like lived there.
00:28:32
And it's kind of fascinating in a way. And she's a beekeeper? That's what she does. And she like talks to her bees.
00:28:39
It's me. It's good. It's good. But it's also like. It's that kind of thing where we're so inured in ourselves in America and thinking like this is how everyone is.
00:28:51
We think everything's westernized. It's amazing to go watch a beekeeper in North Macedonia and what her jam is on the day to day.
00:29:00
She lives with her mom in this house that seems to not have electricity. And her mom is really old.
00:29:06
And it's just like you got to see it. It's a really beautiful movie that we at first Rob and I were just kind of like.
00:29:13
okay we'll go see that you know what it was i was late and so we were supposed to see something else
00:29:19
and then we had to go see the b what's it called but then honeyland honeyland okay but then once
00:29:25
we saw it like we were like we talk about it and we we were both like yeah we i think about that
00:29:31
all the time like it's one of those guys i love that okay oh that reminds me of did you see the
00:29:36
Happiest Season that just went up on Hulu. And it's created and directed by friend of the family,
00:29:43
Cleo Duvall, and also was written as well by friend of the family from Wild Horses, Mary Holland, who's the fucking...
00:29:52
Her character in that movie is like the best character I ever seen in a movie It she weird And I love her in it so much She the greatest Mary Holland is a friend of the family and just a great individual like
00:30:07
a great person to run into in a green room backstage at a show. She's just a lovely human
00:30:13
being. But everyone is so I feel bad that I haven't seen that movie yet because everyone on Twitter
00:30:19
loves it. They're raving about it. They're, they're talking, they're getting into it.
00:30:25
Yeah, I got choked up in it at the end, you know, at the end of like, it's a rom com. So
00:30:30
of course, like it pulls out all these heartstrings and shit, which I didn't even know I had them
00:30:35
anymore. And you do they're in there. Yeah, I people are, what I love is people are talking
00:30:42
about it and they're talking about like apparently um if it is on hulu it had its premiere numbers
00:30:50
were were the biggest they've ever done amazing yeah it it makes me so happy for all those people
00:30:56
it's such a talented astounding group of people in the first place and then basically yeah there
00:31:02
should be a lesbian rom-com there should be there should be all those things yeah congratulations to
00:31:08
to Mary Holland to Clea Duvall to Dan Levy. Oh, Dan Levy's in. Oh, Jesus, I have to see this.
00:31:16
He's great. I read a book. I'm just finishing it now. That was so good. So I think his name
00:31:24
is pronounced Mikkel Jolett. Oh, I just talked to you about it like three episodes ago.
00:31:30
About Hollywood Park? Yes. You told me about it? Yeah, on the podcast. Oh, that's horrifying.
00:31:36
I don't remember that. Oh, no. Yes, I do. Because I said, oh, I have it now. Now I can read it.
00:31:42
Okay. Well, I read it. I did it. I read it. I read a big, long, actual hardback book.
00:31:49
Yeah. And it is. He wasn't sitting on as a child. It's like bananas. It's so unbelievable.
00:31:57
It's so heartfelt. I highly recommend listening to it because his, you know, he narrates the audio book and
00:32:02
there's music. His music is in it. They're like interspiced. Interspiced? interspersed. I read the hardback. Maybe that's why I didn't think of it.
00:32:12
That's horrifying. Well, anyway, I'm glad I got the credit. I'm glad I got the credit.
00:32:17
Vote. I also vote for that. It's a double D from Karen and Georgia. And here is a podcast I listen to on my drive back or my drive up that is trigger, trigger,
00:32:29
trigger and be careful. It's such a sensitive topic, but oh my God, it's an old podcast called
00:32:35
hunting warhead those canadian journalists know how to hunting warhead and it's about um online
00:32:43
uh child it's it's um it's about pedophile websites and child sex abuse materials which is
00:32:54
i learned in this they don't call it child pornography because that makes it seem like
00:32:59
that's somehow okay it's it's child sex abuse it's it's such an unbelievable podcast like
00:33:08
every episode i was like oh my god and it was really compelling really difficult like really
00:33:14
difficult um i don't know if i'm in a good headspace to listen to that right now i feel
00:33:18
like no one is and maybe i shouldn't make this recommendation no no shit it like it's important
00:33:23
stuff. There are people working really hard to fight it. And it brought up some very difficult
00:33:30
questions that I think are, it made it very fascinating. I just think, I feel like Canadian
00:33:37
journalists kick ass. They really, I don't know, you can't go wrong. Oh, I'll just say this real
00:33:44
quick. Okay. My, my notebook in front of me from my therapy appointment this morning. Here's what
00:33:49
my notebook says hope is smart oh that's all okay hope hope is smart oh yeah i love that
00:33:57
yeah that's my big that's my big problem vulnerability hope these things that they all kind of connect and i just i find them repulsive i want no part it's in because
00:34:14
things were shitty for so long that it's just like to hope for better to want something else
00:34:22
I don't have time for that and it's not going to happen it's for other fucking people
00:34:26
it's for normal people who can live normal lives they get to have that today's that day where Spotify sent a bunch of people
00:34:33
this is the podcast you've listened to the most this year and how many hours and so
00:34:41
a bunch of people were posting it to us on Twitter. So I just want to say these are just the people who posted this today.
00:34:47
They're ours and they're This is Your Number One Podcast. That's so cute. I love that.
00:34:52
Erin, Kenz, Sammy, M, Bex, Megan, H, which I think her name is Heather, but it just
00:34:59
says H. Karina, Kels, Alex, Emily, Lynn, Maddie, someone named Antagonist, Ashley, and Natalie
00:35:07
all sent us pictures of their Spotify thing. And one person, I can't I didn't write down which one.
00:35:15
Listen to 17 hours of our show in a row. Oh, my God. Honey, are you okay? Honey, were you on the longest road trip of all time?
00:35:24
Oh, yeah, maybe it's that. It was making me laugh. But thanks, you guys, because people were being so sweet and saying,
00:35:31
I've spent the last year with you and saying super lovely messages because they got their notification.
00:35:37
So they were letting us know. That's so cool. I didn't know that was a thing. I love it.
00:35:41
Oh, that's great. rad. Exactly right news. Really quick. Okay. Here's some news about us. This Friday,
00:35:49
December 4th, at 5 o'clock Pacific Standard Time, 8 o'clock Eastern Standard Time,
00:35:54
Karen and I are doing a live streaming of our mini So the mini is going up on Monday You be able to watch it as a live stream on Friday if you in the fan cult So it only on the fan cult
00:36:05
Make sure that your fan cult membership is up to date. Right. Because so you can get in there and then be there for the first time that we do something live that isn't an actual live show.
00:36:17
Oh, my God. There might be like a Q&A. You might be able to ask a couple of questions.
00:36:22
We don't know what we're going to fucking do. Elvis, I'm sure, will stop by because I'm going to force Vince to bring him into the room.
00:36:29
I mean, there's going to be so many surprises. Yeah. I can't wait to put on makeup.
00:36:34
I'm just like looking around the room. There's a light switch. I might show you what this painting is.
00:36:38
You're going to finally see Karen's light switch. I'll read what all those books are on that bookshelf back there.
00:36:45
It's going to be wild. God. And then we have a podcast network, too. Did you guys know that?
00:36:51
We do. And we have a fucking shit ton of rad podcasts on it. It's like it feels like this growing family.
00:36:57
And I'm so excited. And so this podcast will kill you return for their fourth season on Tuesday.
00:37:03
And they are doing typhoid fever, which is so awesome. This podcast will kill you is one of our foundational podcasts.
00:37:13
We started this network with them. We are talking about all the new kids all the time.
00:37:17
But this podcast will kill you has been there from the beginning. and they have been killing it from the beginning.
00:37:22
Aaron and Aaron. My God. They're so good. They have such a, they have a huge fan base
00:37:27
and we really admire and appreciate them. And we're so glad that they're on this,
00:37:33
this podcast network because the idea that they weekly get to bring and explain to you
00:37:40
different diseases, communicable diseases. Cool. They're visionaries. They are. It's so cool.
00:37:46
Oh, and then Murder Squad is doing this week. Matrice Richardson's death, which I covered a while ago. And it's like,
00:37:53
just one of those cases that can't you can't get out of your mind. I can't wait to hear what Paul
00:37:58
Holes has to say about this case, because it's so confounding and so sad. And clearly,
00:38:03
there's some big fucking issues with the police department surrounding it. So take a listen to
00:38:09
that. And the connections of the people involved in the police department. It's very upsetting.
00:38:15
And finally, some very exciting news. We've been talking about it. Hopefully you've listened to the trailer, but our Law & Order SVU podcast hosted by Kara Clank and Lisa Traeger. It's called That's Messed Up and it is premiering on Tuesday the 8th. They're hilarious.
00:38:33
And it's fucking magical. And it's so it's such a cool concept. They're interviewing people who have been on the show. Lisa has auditioned for SVU before they had these weird connections. It's just and they're both such a lovely, funny women.
00:38:48
Yes, they're hilarious. They're both very talented comedians in their own right and have been doing stand up for a long time. So them coming together and and recapping their favorite show and many, many, many people's favorite show.
00:39:04
Law and Order SVU is it's just going to be great. We're so excited. So definitely rate, review, subscribe. They're coming out Tuesday, December 8th. That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
00:39:16
bro from the show last night to this drive why is it never chill because this is our life
00:39:22
backstage on the road it's loud messy real and that's the best part whole crew no plan just
00:39:30
moving good thing nissan builds for that kind of chaos not just test tracks real life scenes
00:39:35
late nights road trips all of it that's why it holds up nissan was ranked number one in initial
00:39:41
quality among mainstream brands by J.D. Power. Yeah, you can tell. 2026 Nissan Rogue built for
00:39:48
what really happens. For J.D. Power 2025 U.S. Initial Quality Study Award information, visit
00:39:53
jdpower.com slash awards. Awards based on 2025 model year, newer models may be shown.
00:40:00
NYX, that's KNIX leak-proof underwear, isn't just for one moment, it's for all the everyday
00:40:06
moments you didn't realize leak-proof underwear could make easier. Maybe it's day one of your
00:40:11
period. Maybe it's a long travel day. Maybe it's hot outside. You're on the move and you just want
00:40:17
to feel fresh. Their leak-proof underwear comes in a range of absorbencies, from light to ultra,
00:40:23
and helps protect against periods, light leaks, sweat, and everyday surprises. And because they
00:40:29
look and feel like real underwear, they're soft, invisible underclothes, and machine washable.
00:40:35
No extra hassle. No complicated routine. Just dependable protection you can wash and re-wear.
00:40:43
See why millions have made the switch to leak-proof underwear. Visit Nix.com. That's K-N-I-X dot com and use code FLOW15 for 15% off.
00:40:53
That's K-N-I-X dot com. Code FLOW15. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
00:41:05
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary.
00:41:14
Massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
00:41:21
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
00:41:29
And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.
00:41:32
I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
00:41:42
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
00:41:48
That's great. Because it served the story. people will say like oh my god I cried at the end
00:41:52
it's like yeah dude me too listen to Earsay the Audible and iHeart audiobook club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts So speaking of Canadian journalism it funny you brought that up
00:42:07
So I'm doing this story from Canada that I had heard about vaguely but didn't know a lot about.
00:42:13
And now I'm amazed by I'm doing starlight tours, a.k.a. Saskatoon freezing, the Saskatoon freezing deaths.
00:42:23
Okay. I've never heard of it. Oh, okay. So I got information from the website, The Conversation, an article by Michelle Stewart,
00:42:30
The Saskatoon Star Phoenix, a bunch of articles there, one by Jason Warwick, and CBC articles,
00:42:39
one by Dan Zagreski, a Washington Post article by Deneen L. Brown, McLean's article by Megan
00:42:46
Campbell, Criminal, of course, does an excellent episode where they interview someone who's
00:42:51
really involved in the case. Of course, it's good. And then there's a book that talks about
00:42:56
this called Dying for Improvement by Shireen Razek. So this is the Starlight Tours. All right,
00:43:03
let's talk about Saskatchewan, Karen, which is I know one of your favorite topics.
00:43:08
It's a province in Canada, too. It's in Canada, Saskatoon. Saskatchewan is definitely a province
00:43:17
in Canada. In Canada. In Canada. As of October 2020, just recently, Saskatchewan has the highest crime severity index in Canada
00:43:27
and is said to have the highest murder per capita rate in all of Canada. Oh. Welcome to Saskatchewan.
00:43:35
Wow. The largest and most highly populated city in Saskatchewan is Saskatoon. Saskatoon.
00:43:42
Yes. It's between Alberta and Manitoba. You guys, since we all know where those are, it's right in the middle.
00:43:50
Saskatoon has a population of over a quarter of a million people. And I went into my favorite murder email just to find someone describing what it's like there.
00:44:00
And someone named Rawa said, I'm from Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, up in Canada, where we are known for the freezing cold and the flattest land you can imagine.
00:44:09
They say if your wife leaves you, you can see her going for three days. And then she says, my attempt at a dad joke, but it was excellent.
00:44:21
But not to talk too much. It is they call it the Paris of the prairies. So it seems like a little city, but it does have the second highest crime rate in the province.
00:44:30
And that includes crimes committed by law enforcement. So according to government statistics, about 75 percent of the male prison population and 90 percent of the female prison population are native Canadians or First Nations people.
00:44:46
A statistic which is at least in part due to systemic racism and mistreatment by police officers.
00:44:53
So one of those racist practices is what's been coined by the locals as starlight tours.
00:44:59
So once thought to be just an urban legend or a rumor, a starlight tour describes a practice by police officers picking up often inebriated or rowdy indigenous people.
00:45:10
And instead of taking them to the station for booking or to the drunk tank to sleep it off, they're driven to the outskirts of town, kicked out of the vehicle into the often below freezing temperatures and without adequate winter clothes and made to walk back to town on foot or die trying.
00:45:30
So there's nothing there was nothing to prove that those weren't just rumors until one man made it back alive.
00:45:37
And this set off a huge fucking firestorm. in the city. So on the night of January 28, 2000, it's freezing cold. And Daryl Knight,
00:45:48
I think he's about 30. He's a member of the Cree Nation. He's hanging out his uncle's apartment
00:45:53
when sometime before dawn, there's like a little fight that breaks out. Daryl's not involved,
00:45:58
but he had been in trouble with the law before. And he had promised his family that he wouldn't,
00:46:03
you know, do anything wrong. So he left the party being like, I'm not because someone called the
00:46:08
cops. He's like, I'm not going to be here when they get here. He doesn't want any trouble.
00:46:11
Exactly. But he had only made it to the street before he ran into those cops that were on their
00:46:16
way. And thinking he was involved in the fight, they arrested him. So the officers put him in the
00:46:22
back of their cruiser and they take off with Daryl, of course, thinking that they're going to
00:46:26
throw him in the drunk tank or, you know, whatever. But as they head in the opposite direction of the
00:46:31
police station, Daryl starts to get nervous. And he's like, what the hell's going on? He said it
00:46:37
was like a chilling silence from the two cops who are white in the front seat. And he is freaking
00:46:44
out a little bit. And they drive him to an isolated spot three miles outside of Saskatoon.
00:46:50
So there they shout to him, quote, get the fuck out of here, you fucking Indian. And they slam
00:46:55
his face on the hood of the car. They remove his handcuffs and get back into the police car,
00:47:00
leaving him stranded. It's subzero temperatures. He only has on a light jacket for warmth.
00:47:06
and he yells after them as they drive away like I'm gonna fucking freeze out here and they say
00:47:11
that's your fucking problem so Daryl finds himself alone on the outskirts of town it seems like an
00:47:16
industrial area and he later said I thought I was dead but something told me don't give up so he
00:47:23
starts walking he gets what he later says felt like 50 miles since it was so freaking cold but
00:47:30
it was actually about two miles and he ends up making it to a power plant which seems deserted
00:47:36
because it's like five in the morning at this point. So he desperately bangs on a door.
00:47:41
There's no answer. He continues around the building, banging on doors, hoping there's
00:47:46
somebody there. And at this point, he's not even cold anymore. He's starting to warm up,
00:47:53
which sounds great. But as Daryl knows, and anyone who spent their life in this climate knows, that's
00:48:00
Signs of hypothermia before death as you heat up and you start peeling your clothes off.
00:48:05
So finally, fucking against all odds, a night watchman at the power plant on his rounds hears the banging and opens the door to find Daryl standing there.
00:48:15
There's icicles on his eyebrows and eyelashes. The night watchman's like, what the hell are you doing here?
00:48:21
It's five o'clock in the morning. And Daryl tells him about the police ditching him.
00:48:25
The night watchman's like, I don't doesn't really believe him, but he lets him in anyways and calls a taxi for Daryl.
00:48:31
Daryl says, thank you. You probably saved my life. So Daryl finally makes it home.
00:48:36
And, you know, now he's certain that those rumors about the Starlight Tour is real.
00:48:41
His family want him to call the police and report what happened. But it's, you know, of course, he doesn't want to.
00:48:47
That's you can't. That's who did it. Exactly. And you know how police cover for each other.
00:48:52
But he had memorized the two officers badge numbers before they ditched him, which is pretty incredible.
00:48:59
But he just didn't want he didn't want to call the cops. He just wanted to stay quiet.
00:49:04
But then just one day after Daryl's starlight tour, the body of 25 year old indigenous man Rodney Nastus is found shirtless in an industrial area just north of the power plant where Daryl had walked to.
00:49:17
So same area. And then a month later, on February 3rd, 2000, 30-year-old Lawrence Wegner, again, another indigenous man, is found in a field near that same area.
00:49:29
Both of them are dead. Lawrence is wearing only a T-shirt, socks and jeans. You know, it's the middle of fucking February and was last seen alive early on the morning of January 31st.
00:49:40
So there's an inquest into their deaths and they come up inconclusive. the report on Wagner says the cause of death was hypothermia from prolonged exposure of course but
00:49:51
there's no mention of homicide or how he got out there you know what he was doing out there
00:49:55
and in fact when police had discovered his body they had hadn't treated the scene like a crime
00:50:00
scene so there's footprints everywhere in the snow there's like looky-loos um Saskatoon police
00:50:06
sergeant Bob Peters later admits that the crime scene was contaminated because investors uh because
00:50:11
the investigator's curiosity and lack of training. Wagner's mother, Mary, she says her son was wearing boots and an expensive jacket the night he disappeared,
00:50:20
but they're never located. The only thing that changes after this inquiry, it's a jury inquest into the deaths,
00:50:28
is the jury recommends, quote, a standing order requiring police officers to record in their notebooks
00:50:33
the names of individuals they take into police vehicles for whatever reason. Which, can you fucking believe that wasn't already in place?
00:50:41
Like you have to write down if you take someone in to custody for whatever reason.
00:50:45
Them making that rule. Oh, yeah. Now you need to take this fucking take a binder and start writing names down.
00:50:52
OK, well, if they're trying to fucking kill people with the weather, they're not going to write those names down.
00:50:57
So all these things are like it's all just a bunch of dumb bullshit red tape. It all depends on you believing that the police officer has the best intentions, which clearly they don't.
00:51:08
I mean, how how are people this is just like the story I did last week. How how is the trust supposed to be there if the trust is broken over and over again?
00:51:17
And then it's like, no, no, but we're in charge and let us let us manage ourselves.
00:51:22
Totally. It's we'll be our own. We'll oversee ourselves. That doesn't work. OK, so so these deaths, though, give Daryl the confidence he needs to come forward with his story.
00:51:34
And so the media picks it up. And obviously the treatment of Aboriginal people causes just total outrage in the province.
00:51:42
There's protests and, you know, angry people and Amnesty International and other groups get involved and demand action.
00:51:50
So all these people write letters to the local newspaper and like call into local talk shows and saying how angry they are.
00:51:57
And one call comes into the Star Phoenix. But this caller tells the reporter to look into the paper's archives for a story that was published before written by journalist Terry Craig.
00:52:10
So the story is about a mother who claims the police hadn't properly investigated her son's freezing death.
00:52:17
So the journalist goes and finds the article. Her son was named Neil Stonechild, and he had died on the outskirts of town in 1990, 10 years earlier.
00:52:28
So Neil Stonechild was a Salto First Nations teen. He was just 17 in November of 1990.
00:52:37
He was already known around town with social services, youth workers as a bit of a troublemaker.
00:52:42
So he looks like that 80s, 90s cool BMX dude. He looks like he'd been over the edge with Matt Dillon, like the kind of long hair in the back.
00:52:53
So he'd been convicted of breaking and entering earlier that year. And it actually walked out of a group home for young offenders.
00:52:59
He was supposed to be in earlier in the week. And so there was a warrant out for his arrest.
00:53:03
But despite his antics, the social service workers who knew Neil described him as likable and pleasant.
00:53:10
His issues were exacerbated by alcohol. But he was going to AA meetings regularly before he walked out of the group home.
00:53:18
And one of his social workers said that he was a smart kid with a lot of potential and that he had a terrific personality and he could have been anything he put his mind to.
00:53:26
So Neil and his friend Jason Roy go out drinking November 23rd, 1990. Just after midnight, the teens, they've been drinking.
00:53:35
They go to an apartment building because a friend of theirs is in one of the apartments babysitting.
00:53:40
But she hadn't told them what apartment she was in because she was like, fucking, I'm babysitting.
00:53:46
Stay away from the apartment. You're drunk. So they just start banging on all the doors, which totally sounds like something my friends
00:53:54
and I would have done at that age you know So that prompts someone to call the police So Jason Roy the friend is cold and tired He like let just get out of here But Neil doesn want to back down And so Jason
00:54:08
ends up like ditching Neil and heads in the opposite direction, going to another friend's
00:54:13
house. And a few minutes later, though, he says two police officers drive up to him in an alley.
00:54:18
And they ask him for his name. And they say, do you know the young man sitting in the back
00:54:23
seat of the car. They have someone in the back of the car and he immediately recognizes that it's
00:54:28
Neil. Jason, though, was also wanted at the time and he also had a lengthy criminal record. So he
00:54:34
gives the officers a fake name. He's like, I don't know. He says he doesn't know who Neil is kind of
00:54:38
trying to get out of it. He later says that Neil was screaming his name and blood running down his
00:54:44
face as they drove away with him in the backseat of the car. I know. When the cruiser pulls away,
00:54:49
Jason says, Neil, swore and screamed at him. They're going to kill me. They're going to kill me.
00:54:55
Five days later, on November 29th, 1990, 17-year-old Neil Stonechild's frozen body is discovered by workers in an undeveloped industrial area on the outskirts of Saskatoon.
00:55:08
So he's found face down in the snow. He's only wearing jeans, a light jacket. He's missing a shoe.
00:55:15
And there's news footage from that time that just show him lying out there. It's not super close, but it's so disturbing.
00:55:21
And I can't imagine that just coming up. I mean, it's so disturbing. The Saskatoon police concluded that he had died while trying to walk to an adult correctional center and that he was overcome by the cold.
00:55:34
And of course, they deny that Stone Child was abandoned by the officers. And of course, his mom doesn't believe this.
00:55:40
There's no way her son would have walked anywhere when the temperatures were below 28 degrees Celsius.
00:55:46
below 28 degrees Celsius. Also, Neil's aunt reports that at the funeral home, she and Neil's
00:55:53
sister saw that he had cuts across the bridge of his nose. He has bruises. It's obvious to them that
00:56:00
he had been beaten up. And Neil's uncle also says that he noticed bumps on Neil's head and skin
00:56:05
missing on his wrists, thumbs and hands. And he thinks that maybe the scratches and all that came
00:56:11
from Neil trying to pull off handcuffs. Yeah. On December 5th, so that's like six days later,
00:56:20
the Saskatoon Police Service closed the investigation into the death of Neil Stonechild,
00:56:25
despite the visible injuries to Neil's body. When the investigation is closed, it's done so
00:56:30
before they received the coroner's report or the toxicology report and prior to even, you know,
00:56:36
completing witness interviews. So they have no information, basically, and they close the case.
00:56:42
And they just state that the cause of death was hypothermia, which is like no shit. But what
00:56:47
is the fucking cause? Jason says that he spoke to police twice about his allegations. He says the
00:56:53
police officer took a statement from him. He says he approached a homicide investigator several
00:56:59
months later, but he never heard from the police again. Okay, so back to present day, which is the
00:57:04
year 2000 star phoenix reporter leslie perot publishes an article on february 22nd 2000 that
00:57:12
connects daryl knight's allegations with stone child's death a decade earlier so she like you
00:57:18
know this fucking canadian journalist ties them all together um and it's thanks to this i think
00:57:24
anonymous caller who's like you need to look into this other case it's like i don't think people
00:57:28
had remembered it maybe why is it always chaos when we link up because nobody plans anything bro
00:57:35
good thing the rogue's ready like that for real rain dirt whatever available all-wheel drive
00:57:40
five modes we still outside and they got some kick too that turbo torque is crazy the most in
00:57:47
its class it moves moves rogue doesn't mess around and peep the space merch on merch gear mics all
00:57:54
of it fits. Load up, we out. 2026 Nissan Rogue, built for all of it. Auto Pacific segmentation,
00:58:01
2026 Rogue versus latest in-market competitors in the ex-SUV mainstream mid-sides class,
00:58:07
excluding electrical vehicles based on manufacturer websites. NYX, that's KNIX leak-proof underwear, isn't just for one moment, it's for all the everyday
00:58:17
moments you didn't realize leak-proof underwear could make easier. Maybe it's day one of your
00:58:22
period. Maybe it's a long travel day. Maybe it's hot outside. You're on the move and you just want
00:58:28
to feel fresh. Their leak-proof underwear comes in a range of absorbencies, from light to ultra,
00:58:34
and helps protect against periods, light leaks, sweat, and everyday surprises. And because they
00:58:40
look and feel like real underwear, they're soft, invisible underclothes, and machine washable.
00:58:46
No extra hassle. No complicated routine. Just dependable protection you can wash and re-wear.
00:58:54
See why millions have made the switch to leak-proof underwear. Visit Nix.com. That's K-N-I-X dot com and use code FLOW15 for 15% off.
00:59:04
That's K-N-I-X dot com. Code FLOW15. Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
00:59:16
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary,
00:59:25
massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
00:59:32
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
00:59:40
And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it.
00:59:43
I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
00:59:53
But there places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me And I left it on the mic That great Because it served the story People will say like oh my God I cried at the end It like yeah dude me too
01:00:05
Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:00:13
So an inquiry is open and the two officers who had allegedly taken Daryl Knight on his Starlight tour,
01:00:19
their names were Hatchin and Munson, And they testify that they didn't break any laws and that Knight was never assaulted.
01:00:27
But they both have different stories individually of what happened. And Hatchin claims that Daryl asked to be dropped off on the edge of town.
01:00:37
His attorney argues that Daryl was well known to the police and had dealt with them before and had said to them, look, boys, drop me off anywhere.
01:00:45
Just don't take me and just don't take me in. Take me anywhere. Just please don't take me to jail.
01:00:51
The power plant was just where they happened to be. So then Munson's attorney denies that the drop off was motivated by racism.
01:00:59
He said there have been other individuals around Saskatchewan who said that they have been dropped off by different police forces.
01:01:06
Some are aboriginal. Some are not aboriginal. I have my doubts that race was a factor.
01:01:12
Either way, could we get it to stop fucking happening? You're acknowledging. I mean, practice that happens.
01:01:18
Yeah, it's they're intentionally trying to kill people by cold. Yeah. Yeah. So the prosecutor says that the officers deviated from the code of conduct and that they did whatever they wanted to do.
01:01:31
And their detainment of Daryl Knight became unlawful the minute they decided to take him anywhere other than the police station.
01:01:38
Yeah. Yeah. Both officers are convicted of unlawful confinement in September 2001.
01:01:44
The maximum sentence for that is 10 years, but they're only sentenced to eight months in prison.
01:01:52
The Saskatoon Police Service does fire them after they're convicted. And the chief of Saskatoon's police service is also let go.
01:02:00
Saskatchewan Justice Minister Chris Axworthy orders a review into the treatment of Native Canadians in the justice system.
01:02:07
and police chief Russell Sabo apologizes to the Aboriginal Justice Reform Commission,
01:02:14
saying the two officers, quote, failed to live up to their oath of office. OK, so in a television interview, he also says that the abandonment of Aboriginal men by Saskatoon
01:02:24
police, quote, happened more than once. And we fully admit that. And in fact, on behalf of the
01:02:29
police department, I want to apologize. It's quite conceivable there were other times.
01:02:34
I think it's important we take ownership when we do something wrong and correct the behavior.
01:02:40
So, wow. Yeah. Kind of unheard of. Maybe not in Canada, but sorry, is that the race?
01:02:48
He did say the race was a factor in that. Yeah. OK, good. So then in 2003, the Saskatchewan provincial government holds a commission of inquiry known as the right inquiry, W.R.I.G.H.T.
01:03:00
because it's led by Justice David Wright into Neil Stonechild's death all the way back in 1990.
01:03:06
So they open that back up. Officers Larry Hartwig and Bradley Sanger argue their innocence,
01:03:12
and they say they didn't have any contact with Neil that night. Neil's family testify, and Jason Roy testifies to what he saw.
01:03:20
Finally, they get a chance to fucking, you know, I'm sure it had been so frustrating for them that no one was listening for fucking over 10 years.
01:03:27
So after hearing from 43 people, testimony from 43 people, over 20 months, the inquiry ends on May 19th, 2004.
01:03:37
And the circumstances around Neal's death, unfortunately, are still considered officially unknown, which is very shitty.
01:03:46
But Justice David Wright does release his findings in October 2004. And his report, I think people weren't expecting much, and it went way further than anyone thought it would.
01:03:57
And he concludes that Neil Stonechild had been in police custody the night he died, despite the officers denying it, and that the marks on his wrists and his nose were likely caused by handcuffs.
01:04:10
Wright also accepted the account of Jason Roy and believed everything he said, you know, describing seeing a bloody, his bloodied friend in the back of the police cruiser.
01:04:21
Jason's testimony led to he got death threats and he said he was so distraught he attempted suicide at one point.
01:04:30
But ultimately, he says he's glad he played a role in helping like and showing people that they can stand up for themselves.
01:04:38
Yeah. So the officers Hartwig and Sanger are dismissed from duty in November 2004 within a month of their reports release.
01:04:46
they appeal their appeal is rejected and the courts uphold the findings of the inquiry
01:04:52
so it's fucking you know it's it's not great but it's an acknowledgement i guess which is
01:04:59
so much further than ignoring it or covering it up i mean like the idea that someone did get in
01:05:05
there it's also so overt that's kind of what what's upsetting to me about it is it's so overt and it's so egregious.
01:05:16
Yeah, it's like in your face, we can do whatever we want. And we're going to do it in the most, like, it's one thing to be like, oh, this, this kid,
01:05:23
I'm, you know, we're going to judge him because he has a record or something. And we're going to like, make life hard for him to try to get him to stop, you know, having a record.
01:05:32
That's one thing that still is not a good way to do it. But it's, it's not that.
01:05:37
it's trying to kill a person by, by putting them out into the freezing cold. It's in,
01:05:43
I mean, there's just, there's like utter disregard. It's murder. It's murder. Yeah,
01:05:47
completely. The report also goes on to say that relations between the police and
01:05:52
first nations people are problematic. And he includes a comprehensive like like notes on how police can start to earn back their trust because it really fucked up at this point
01:06:05
Saskatoon's mayor that year is defeated in his run for reelection by a former officer who had broke ranks and spoke out at the inquiry.
01:06:14
Whoa. Despite, I think, a lot of old school officers at the time were like, you know, don't fucking rat and all of that stuff.
01:06:21
The police chief was fired. And for the first time, a First Nations woman is appointed to head of the city police commission.
01:06:30
So, yeah, as per rights recommendations that he had wanted implemented, among other things there, they want he want Aboriginal officers added to the municipal police forces in Saskatchewan, which was done.
01:06:43
There's GPS tracking systems now are standard in all police cars. Video surveillance now tapes anything that happens in front of the cruiser.
01:06:53
And as soon as the police open the back door to place someone inside, it immediately starts recording video.
01:07:00
And an independent body now investigates complaints against police. So everything was enacted, which is, you know, pretty stellar.
01:07:11
Yeah. Yeah. It's yeah, it's surprising. The police invited local Amnesty International officials to head a diversity advisory committee.
01:07:22
So all officers took several days of diversity training and all new recruits have taken a full week of diversity training.
01:07:31
And the number of Aboriginal police officers has nearly doubled since the inquiry.
01:07:35
So a lot of steps have been taken to prove that, you know, there has been a problem and we're trying to address it.
01:07:44
I think that the then, you know, the heads of the First Nations people are now kind of interacting with the police and the government to like really address these problems.
01:07:55
So well, and they're in they're not just interacting as people who have been victims of the police, but now they get to be there with people with power.
01:08:03
They had, you know, the idea that there's a First Nations woman in charge of the police commission.
01:08:08
Is that what you said? Like that is so there's actually someone there that if you go and have an interaction, there will be someone that that knows like what you're talking about and believes you.
01:08:21
What's so important, it seems to me in this is that that the police need to understand the culture of the people that they are like to serve and protect.
01:08:33
It's not the same, you know, it's just it's a different culture and understanding and empathy towards that is so important to like it.
01:08:41
Clearly, they weren't seeing them as real people, as humans. And so it's so important that diversity training to be able to see that.
01:08:49
So, OK, this this is a little fucking bananas, a little tidbit, because, of course, everything isn't all grand and shit.
01:08:58
Of course, not trying to say that. In fact, in 2016, a student named Addison Herman was working on a project about police brutality, a school project.
01:09:08
And when he looked up the Starlight Tours on the Saskatoon Police Services Wikipedia article, like he went to the Wikipedia page to look up the Starlight Tours and the entry was missing.
01:09:17
There's no entry on the Starlight Tours. So he, you know, is young and smart. So it does a little tiny bit of digging and is able to uncover that between 2012 and 2016, the Starlight Tours section on the page had been deleted several times.
01:09:34
And then he tracks the history of the entry. And because you can fucking do that, everything is traceable.
01:09:39
He uncovers that the registration on the IP address that had deleted it came from the Saskatoon Police Service.
01:09:46
Yeah. Yeah. So an internal investigation is done. Blah, blah, blah. It's all fucking lip service. On March 31st, 2016, a police spokeswoman announced that the section on Starlight Tours had been deleted using a computer within the department, but said investigators are unable to pinpoint exactly who did it.
01:10:05
But it's like you can tell the fucking desk it came from. You know, it's it's it's 2016.
01:10:11
You can tell these things. But they're like, we delete all or everything off the servers every 30 days.
01:10:15
We can't tell who it was. We just know it was from the office. But the problem is not where it got deleted from.
01:10:23
The problem is that it got deleted because that's erasing the history that they are responsible for.
01:10:30
And that that's the that's the problem. This is colonization. This is the effect of colonization, where then you have a whole group of people who are treated terribly, who are like the entire thing of it is like you can break it down into like, oh, well, we sorry, we can't trace how that.
01:10:50
But it's like, no, this is whitewashing. That's what whitewashing is. And that's why it happens.
01:10:55
Because people do massively fucked up shit. And then they just want to act like nothing happened.
01:11:01
and how dare you speak to us about how we do things. It's the how dare you thing when it's like, no, no, how dare you?
01:11:09
Think that you can just go kill children, go kill these people, go put them out.
01:11:15
Because those people need to be weeded out. And they need it. I mean, obviously, that's what happened.
01:11:23
But it's like, you can't make it go away. It didn't happen because in 2016, there's still someone in that fucking in that police station taking this entry down.
01:11:34
So it didn't get weeded out, you know. Well, right, because you can't do a week of sensitivity training and think that that's going to change racism.
01:11:43
It's called systemic for a reason. It's because it's in the veins. And also, guess what?
01:11:48
If you did it, it's still it might not be on Wikipedia, but it's in God's fucking Wikipedia.
01:11:54
Guess what? That guy you always claim that you love so much? God? He fucking knows.
01:11:58
She. Well, and also... Everyone in your town knows all the families of the people who were murdered.
01:12:03
So here's and here's what you're too stupid to know is 16 year olds can go in and rewrite that entry on Wikipedia because that's what fucking Wikipedia is like.
01:12:14
This is modern life. That's how modern life works. Right. And I think the modernization of us now and the public having video, it's they said the same thing, you know, about the racism isn't getting worse.
01:12:27
It's just being fucking filmed now. And that's the same thing happening in Canada where it's, you know, there's so many of these cases that are being brought to light.
01:12:34
And, you know, these people are like, this isn't new. You're just finally seeing it.
01:12:39
You know, you're seeing what we see every fucking day. And you're finally listening to people who you've it's been easy for you to ignore in the past.
01:12:47
It's been easy for us to ignore in the past. Definitely. So recently, a local newspaper found that indigenous students in Saskatchewan are more likely to be stopped by police than non-indigenous students.
01:12:59
And they receive indigenous people receive harsher sentences than non-indigenous people in Saskatchewan.
01:13:05
And I said that 75 percent of the male prison population and 90 percent of the female prison population is Aboriginal.
01:13:12
It said government commissions have been set up to address these concerns. But, you know, schools on reserves get less funding.
01:13:22
The majority of kids in the foster care system are Aboriginal. And of course, as we know, a disproportionate number of Aboriginal men and women are missing and murdered each year.
01:13:33
What's the podcast? It's Missing and Murdered. Yeah, that's a great. There's like a couple of seasons of that.
01:13:37
You should definitely check out the podcast Missing and Murdered. Ever since Daryl Knight survived his Starlight Tour, his entire family has been living on the Salto First Nations Reserve outside the city.
01:13:49
Daryl says he doesn't feel safe in Saskatoon. You know, he feels like a target. There are other suspicious freezing deaths that are possible cases of starlight tours and something they go back as far as the 1960s.
01:14:02
So just last week, November 25th, 2020, marked the 30th anniversary of the death of Neil Stonechild.
01:14:10
His big brother, Chris, remembers Neil as a caring person with a big heart. He says he loved life.
01:14:17
His mother, Stella, says, quote, not a day goes by when I don't shed a tear for my boy.
01:14:22
And as of 2020, no Saskatoon police officer has ever been convicted for causing a freezing death for a Starlight Tour.
01:14:30
And that is the story of Starlight Tours Wow I never heard of that I glad you told it It a horrifying story Yeah And I guess this is why we end on fucking hurrays
01:14:41
Do you want to go first? Do you want me to go first? Go ahead. Yeah. Okay. This is from Rebecca.Teskey26.
01:14:48
My fucking hurray is, since I'm not going home for Thanksgiving, I decided to put the money I would have used for gas to different use and help provide groceries for a family in need.
01:14:57
It wasn't much, but hopefully helpful. It's fucking awesome. Oh, nice. Yeah, that's great. Let's see. This is from Annie McGonigal. And it says, my fucking hooray is celebrating the one year anniversary of creating a social work department at a pediatric clinic serving primarily kids on the autism spectrum.
01:15:14
Throughout this past year, myself and now two incredible other social workers have created a department that's provided intensive mental health care for over 50 new families in the Chicago area.
01:15:26
So proud of my clinic, my co-workers, myself, but mostly my clients that work so hard every day.
01:15:32
The kids I serve model strength, courage and finding the good in all things. Oh, my God.
01:15:40
Amazing. That's awesome. Amazing. Good job, Annie. Thank you for that work. OK, this is from Chelsea Page Ricketts.
01:15:47
My fucking hooray is that today, after over three years, my super religious parents who hate having a gay daughter finally invited my girlfriend to Thanksgiving dinner.
01:15:57
I have no idea if meeting her changed their view of my relationship at all, but they're finally trying.
01:16:03
And that's all I can really ask. Fucking hooray. Wow. I know. That's big. That's a huge step.
01:16:10
Incredible. That's really something. Yeah. That's that hope we were talking about.
01:16:14
That's some hope. Yeah. That's some hope. Yeah. This is from Michelle Zupa and it says,
01:16:18
My fucking hooray is that I got a real Christmas tree for the first time ever this weekend with my boyfriend for our new apartment together.
01:16:27
Yay. My sister got a Christmas tree while I was home and I swear to God. I mean, if you can get your hands on something that's like, even if it just smells like pine, even just like it's just like one of those air fresheners for your car.
01:16:44
it's smell it's so nice to be marking time in a in a way that like actually registers yeah like
01:16:52
any little decoration that you have around your house uh yeah i love having string lights up that
01:16:57
aren't christmas colors so i can have like little hanukkah stuff just like white and blue it's like
01:17:02
it feels good it feels good what you celebrate actually celebrate it this year because i definitely one of those kind of people whatever the holiday is um i one of the kind of people that like it not worth it I you know whatever I don want to bother or whatever And I think this year of any the idea of just the celebration of it the end of the year
01:17:24
It's a time of like charity. It's a time of giving. It's a time of caring about other people.
01:17:30
All those things. whatever it means to you and whatever it looks like to you, I highly recommend this be the year that you do it.
01:17:38
It makes a difference. It makes a difference on your own subconscious. Even if you're like, oh, it's just me and my apartment by myself.
01:17:46
It's like a reminder every day. Yeah, I love that. That it's like this is the season overall for people to remember to care
01:17:57
and reach out to each other and connect. like now more than ever basically. Seriously.
01:18:03
Put up decorations for every fucking December holiday. Get it all going. Celebrate all
01:18:09
of them. Go Kwanzaa. Go Hanukkah. Christmas. Whatever pagan ritual you might be able to
01:18:15
look up and find. They don't celebrate it. Oh fuck. Then you have to take them all down but that's a celebration in and
01:18:21
of itself and it's just showing respect. Yeah yeah yeah. People have different beliefs.
01:18:25
That's right. Or just like they can eat a ton of candy canes. Whatever that means to you.
01:18:31
Whatever you can do. Oh, I love it. Vince has the cookies that he likes to have baked.
01:18:36
Like just peanut butter with a Hershey kiss in the middle. Peanut butter cookies.
01:18:40
Those are the goddamn best. He just has to have those every year. They're so good.
01:18:45
Yeah. When you get one of those hot out of the oven so that the Hershey's kiss is a little bit
01:18:50
milky. And the sugar is like kind of crunchy on top. Oh, my God. Are you kidding?
01:18:54
Stop. Are you kidding? I'll drop some off for you. Would you really? Yeah. Oh, wait.
01:18:58
We can do an exchange because then I can give you that moisturizer that I have. Yeah.
01:19:02
Okay. We'll do this. I should probably get you a Christmas present too. Okay. Fine.
01:19:06
I'll get you a Hanukkah present. I'll get you seven Hanukkah presents and stick them in a bag.
01:19:11
Yes. Well, thanks for listening, guys. Guys. Here we are face to face. Guess what?
01:19:19
Today is December 1st. It's the last month of 2020. we're wrapping this fucking POS up in a big,
01:19:28
beautiful bow, a non-denominational bow. And we're going to, we're going to get through these last 30 days and then have a true cleansing
01:19:37
ritual of some kind. Let's do that. Let's do a witchy, crystal-y moon thing. Yeah,
01:19:43
we need to. Right It such isn it weird that it already December In some ways it like the longest and also then the fastest year of all time Absolutely Absolutely These walls That all I seen
01:19:56
I mean, it is. But we're making it, guys. We're holding hands to get via podcast.
01:20:04
We're doing it together and we're doing our fucking best. And even if we're not, we intend to at some point in our lives.
01:20:10
And, you know, and things are going to get better. Manifest it. Believe it. Light a candle.
01:20:16
Say it to yourself. Because it already is starting to. And they're. Yeah. And we can.
01:20:25
We can. This can all get better. We deserve. We deserve hope. Yes, we do. And hope is smart.
01:20:31
That's right. So have a little. Yeah. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
01:20:37
Elvis, you want a cookie? Bro, from the show last night to this drive, why is it never chill?
01:20:44
Because this is our life. Backstage, on the road, it's loud, messy, real. And that's the best part. Whole crew, no plan, just moving.
01:20:53
Good thing Nissan builds for that kind of chaos. Not just test tracks, real life scenes, late nights, road trips, all of it.
01:21:01
That's why it holds up. Nissan was ranked number one in initial quality among mainstream brands by JD Power.
01:21:07
Yeah, you can tell. 2026 Nissan Rogue built for what really happens. For J.D. Power 2025 U.S. Initial Quality Study Award information, visit jdpower.com slash awards.
01:21:19
Awards based on 2025 model year, newer models may be shown. This episode is brought to you in part by Vital Farms.
01:21:25
Have you noticed that the egg section at the grocery store has gotten very complicated lately?
01:21:29
But Vital Farms makes it simple. Pasture-raised eggs traceable to the farm. Their hens have outdoor access year-round with fresh air and sunshine
01:21:36
and forage on rotated pastures with local grasses. Every carton can be traced back to the farm it came from
01:21:42
so you can see the pasture where the hens live by visiting vitalfarms.com slash farm.
01:21:46
Look for the black carton in the egg aisle and visit vitalfarms.com to learn more.
01:21:50
Vital Farms, good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. Unlock the savings at Boost Mobile
01:21:56
and save up to $600 a year. I've been scouting these big carriers for a minute now
01:22:00
and I've seen them pull the same play a thousand times. They promise you the world,
01:22:04
then hit you with a price hike right when the game gets tight. But Boost Mobile, their $25 a month unlimited wireless plan
01:22:10
is the most consistent player on the floor. No contracts, no price hikes. Unlock the savings today at BoostMobile.com slash unlock.
01:22:18
Based on average annual single line payment of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers
01:22:20
compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile unlimited wireless plan as of January 2026.
01:22:23
For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com.