264 - Goodbye, Sloppy Joe! | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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This is exactly right. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.

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have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app,

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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous

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lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random

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crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

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I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hartstark. Thank you. That's Karen Kilgara.

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Thank you. Thank you. And everyone. Everybody. Get ready. We're going to do this thing.

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We're going to rock down to. Electric Avenue. Ladies and gentlemen. You know it.

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Wouldn't that be amazing? And then we introduce Eddie Grant as our new third co-host.

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You know what song? I had it. I think I was happy the other day, which was like a really weird.

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I text you. It was like a like a like a actual. Oh, I'm suddenly realize I'm happy because I walked upstairs and like and put on like

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Vince and I will surprise each other with songs a lot because we have the speaker in

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the living room. So like anytime he used to come home from a bar or something before he'd walk in the

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door, he'd put on wet ass pussy, which was so I'd start to hear the beat. and then I'd be like

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this is home with some holes and this is home it's first scared of ever loving shit

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out of me because it's not going to be this beat so I put on I must have been in a good mood

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because I put on the Austin Powers theme song oh my god and I was like whoa I'm happy

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you got those you got those the beach air it cleaned you out the what you had some

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you went to the beach you had some time at the beach the beach was lovely I highly recommend

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if you if there's a body of water You can go sit at. It's a really nice mind douche, I guess you could call it.

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I mean, if you have to. It's your right. It's your right as an American. Yeah, I feel like optimistic.

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Nice. Now back away from that. Don't touch it. Don't look at it too much. Okay. Let it be.

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Don't listen to sad podcasts about optimism. No, do that. I mean, don't you know, these things come and go like clouds in the sky.

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Yeah, it all comes and goes so long that I noticed it and was like, what is this?

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Well, I let's celebrate it. That's good. Actually, can I read you? I'll show you.

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There's a tissue box in this room. And the other day I was having therapy in here and I didn't have a piece of paper because she'll say these like profound things.

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And I'll be like, hold on, I need to write that down. So on this tissue box, it says pain is inevitable.

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Suffering is optional. Wasn't that? Yes. That's not her quote, but that's like a.

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That's our new line of tissues. We're going to take these. I know that's that's a funny thing.

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I'm overtly stealing from my therapist constantly. Sure. But she's stealing it from someone else.

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Well, yeah. I don't know if they call it stealing. Right. Oh, right. Because they're not putting it anywhere except for into your brain.

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there. But, but I do love those, like that kind of thing where it takes a long time to understand

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that your thoughts are just that. Just thoughts. Yes. And they're coming from a place and that

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might not be the place that they should be coming from and that are healthy to come from.

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Totally. That they're just, they are what they are, whether they're, you can trust them or not.

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it's the kind of there was a we had you were there for it. We had a meeting a couple of days ago that

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really stressed me out and made I was mad. So when I left that call and walked out to the front room

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to finally be done with the back to back Zoom calls for the day, I'm not complaining. I laid

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down and could feel the churn. And that's my habit. And that's how I was. That's kind of like

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Having worked for years in kind of like high pressure in me daily television is very high pressure

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And you either get it done or you don't at the end of the day and then you sit in it your failure

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You can't let it go victory. It's like yeah And then the next day you have to take what you fucked up and learn and do it better the next day and there lots of that kind of like The way I learned it in the beginning Maybe not the healthiest way is an old habit that I trying to let go of which is whatever you feel about that

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You can you can go grab your own hand and walk yourself back to neutral. So I don't have to sit on the couch and like and stew and churn and practice speeches.

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Yeah, I can just watch TV. I can go like, well, we'll take care of that tomorrow because everybody knows what they're doing and we can all talk about it again.

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It's the idea that and it's just very much my personality. But it's like if I sit here and stew and do blah, blah, blah, that's going to get me whatever like result I want.

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Yeah, which is not the truth. Yeah, it's not the truth. If you suffer through, you know, whatever.

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And I had so I just laying there on the couch. I was like, I don't know if I can do that.

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that it was like I was having a full conversation with myself in my head. And then I was like,

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well, I'm just trying to happen. And then so I just was like, okay, let's just go to neutral.

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And then I was like, oh, yeah, oh, I can do this. Yeah, that's easy. And then I just

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fully enjoyed a TV show. It was fully fine. And then, of course, the other people on every other

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end of the thing came back around and it wasn't the end of the story. It's like part of that.

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we've talked about this all the time like anxiety issues is now it's over that's the end of the

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story this whole thing blew up yeah or whatever your fear is i see no way that this can be fixed

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i see no way that this can be yeah yeah and so there i have to if so i have to continue to talk

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about it text about it email about whatever like do my machinations to change it when it's like it

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What if somebody else tries to change it? Totally. And what if tomorrow it could be picked back up and taken care of then?

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Yeah. Yeah. That's neutrality. Give it a whirl. Neutrality. What are you reading, watching, listening to, thinking about?

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Wait, before we I think we have to do a couple circle backs. Let's do a circle back section.

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It's just the people have been letting us know you can pretty much get seized candy in many places across America.

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Many airports, many. and then I think it's newer some places but it certainly is not

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exclusive. No, we were wrong about that. Can I say that Seize Candy reached out to us on Instagram

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and is sending the exactly right team. I don't know how much. I can't wait. I feel like we need

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to do an unboxing. Oh, shit. I felt like I got a message from a celebrity. Mary C was sitting in front

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of her fireplace in her rocking chair. Well, first of all, I'm there if I had not Instagram.

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so it's me Mary hey it's me it's the real Mary the candy influencer oh yeah that place is legendary I'll drive it over as soon as it comes please let's have a

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serious unboxing party so yeah that's one thing everyone let us know thank you we love follow-ups

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guys we love follow-ups we love hearing I definitely butchered the name of something in a

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the name. Oh, it was in the mini-sode when I was doing this story that took place where

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Letterkenny takes place. He got that completely wrong and I won't try it again because I'll

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just get it wrong again. There were people on that were, I read some tweets where people,

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there was no criticism and there was no correction. People were just like, I love these attempts at this name. It was just people being like,

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No one told me how to say it. They were just like, that made me happy hearing you try to say that.

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So I appreciate that we've come to that place on this podcast. Yeah, where people are like, we can't enjoy the mistake for what it is as opposed to.

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OK, but we've got a couple of those on this follow up thing. But this first one I found, someone named Brandon Dick said to me on Twitter.

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So what did Jim say about the whole tossing flour on a grease fire? Oh, he said, I smell a correction corner coming up.

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Wait, no, that's my kitchen on fire. Oh, it's D.I.C.K. D.I.X. D.I.C.K.S. That's brilliant.

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That is because on the Minnesota on Monday, there was a kitchen on fire story. And Karen and I just named a bunch of shit that you could maybe throw on a grease fire.

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And one of them was flour. And thank God we're correcting that now. Well, so I called Jim.

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OK. And he confirmed that we were both right. Baking soda or flour. He said anything that will smother it, not water. OK. And then he goes, I think that's the way you do it. I go, Dad, what do you mean? You were a fireman for like 40 years. Like, weren't you a captain? Like, like, aren't you supposed to? And then he goes, what you do is you call 911. And he goes, and then someone calls CPS on that.

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grandpa. And then he goes, he said, he said, well, if you're real, I go, dad, it was the

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grease fire, but then the wall behind the oven. And he goes, well, if you're real young and spry,

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you grab that pan and run out the back door. I go, yeah, that's what the grandpa did. And he

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burned his arm. And then I basically said it was because the grandpa was babysitting and they went

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down to the corner to the gas station. And then he went to another gas station to find bread.

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And he goes, my dad loves to do stuff like this. Like my dad started watching The Simpsons literally 22 years after it premiered on TV.

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Like he was even watching that. He loves The Simpsons. And so he goes, he goes, he went down to what's the beer Homer Simpson drinks at?

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And I said, Moe's. And he goes, right. And what's the what's that beer Homer Simpson drinks?

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He goes, I go, Duff. And he goes yeah he so and then he basically has to go back and then retell the joke like he knew both references He like he went down to Moe and drank a duck Oh my God He so right

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Yeah. And then at the very end, I was like, I was writing it down and laughing. And then he goes, what are you asking me this for?

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And I said, oh, because George and I started talking about it on the podcast. But we don't we weren't sure.

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And he goes, quit bringing me into that podcast. And I go, it's too late to have the people love home gym.

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Oh, my home gym. He acted all mad about it, but he's not. So thank you, Brandon, for circling back.

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But it turns out no correction corner needed because you and I, for perhaps the first time in five years, we're both right.

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But but also truly wrong. Don't put flour on fire on a grease fire. No, no, you do not flour.

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I thought it was baking soda, but not flour. Both anything that will smother the flame.

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You have to kill the oxygen. Flour doesn't have any kind of flaming anything. What if it's asbestos flour?

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Then do we have a problem? If you've made flour out of the tops of matchsticks, then do not throw that flour onto the...

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Right. Anything that will douse the flame and kill the oxygen. Okay. But he said once the wall is involved, get out of the house.

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I wonder if a simple fire extinguisher would work because I actually have those in like every part of my house, which is I think everyone should do.

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Yes, they should. But you know what I've heard? Do it. Have them there and go through and pull those plastic.

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There's a plastic ring that's always on them for safety. Yeah. And at some point in your life, cut the plastic ring off so that if something happens, you can pick it up and squirt it.

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And there's no you don't have to mess around with an extra step. I also have scissors in every room in my fucking house because I'm a grandma.

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So I could I'd be fine. But everyone else isn't psychotic like me. It's nice to have a pair of scissors.

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You always need a pair of scissors. OK, what else? OK, this is going to make you very happy.

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Oh, my God. OK, this is from Bailey at Babice 99. The Irish perhaps. I love her.

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She says, my friend and I won $1,500 at the casino, taking Georgia Hartstark's advice of playing Buffalo.

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Oh, I just scared Mimi. I know. Oh, my God. $1,500. $1,500. That's her fucking hooray.

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When did you ever win that at Vegas? On Buffalo. Oh, my God. Congratulations. Isn't that rad?

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I'm thrilled. You can send 25% of that to me at POP. Oh, I'm kidding. That's incredible.

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I know. That's a little good news. I think she, I know, right? She wrote that in as a fucking hooray, but I felt like that's just fun news for the top

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of the show. I want to hear that. Now, last week I talked about me and Dave Messmerer talking about what I was calling

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haiga, which is the Danish practice of coziness. The, you know, being cozy in your home.

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Yeah. Well, Trisha Bagby wrote and said it's called Higa and there's a whole song about it in the Frozen Broadway show.

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And then she linked a YouTube link to the Frozen Broadway show, which I have not watched.

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But then so thanks, Trisha, except then Sarah Tunderman wrote in and said, quick correction, corner.

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Higa is pronounced Hooga. Yeah. And she said, but then she also said that the author of that book that I said, remember, it was like me, it's Viking or whatever. His name is Mike Viking. And that's how it's pronounced. And she has ruined us for pronunciations from the Netherlands.

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she said um because of course he is and he works at the happiness institute true story and in

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parentheses i'm not a smarty pants i once listened to a podcast about him and became obsessed so

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apparently there's you can get podcasts about what sarah says is pronounced hygge and what

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trisha says is pronounced higa and what me and dave say is pronounced hygge so i guess that sounds

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like something Homer Simpson would say on his way to Moe's to drink a duff. What's that? What's that

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bard that Homer Simpson goes to? You're like, Dad, you don't need to tell me the joke now because I

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get what you mean, but go right ahead. You know what that is? Classic dad joke. That is a classic

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dad joke where you provide half the joke for him and then he gets mad if you don't laugh at it.

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Marty will be like, hey, I got one for you, like to Vince because he knows he's a comedian. So he'll

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be like, hey, I got one you can use if you want. And it's just like the most inappropriate joke.

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Great. I know you're listening and I love you. Oh, can we give the author we were on and there was an article about us in Elle magazine

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that like kind of made me teary a little because it just made me see how far we've come that we I

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I don't think we stop and think about it often because we're just so immersed now in this podcast life.

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The podcast life found us. So so that that article was written by Emma Dibdin, who just like did us so good.

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It was like, thanks, Emma. We had a great meeting with her. You know, what's it called?

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Interview with her over Zoom. She was lovely. We both applied for jobs at all. They said, no, thank you.

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But we didn't even get a call back, but it was just so lovely. So go on like Elle magazine online.

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It's just on the online. And it just this really great piece that I was honored to send out to my mom And then my mom sent it to all my aunts And like you know it was and then started texting me back their responses over and over again like all their responses

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There really is. Yeah. Thank you, Emma, because there really is something to be said for a solid article.

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Like, did you see, you know, they they talk to them in blank thing that your parents have actually heard.

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Totally. When we were in the gas company, I was like, wow. Like, yeah, it's these publications that you're like, I've been reading these my whole life on airplanes. And suddenly there's our face or there's our names. It's really it's always exciting.

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It really is. It's nice. Yeah. We're very grateful. And it's nice to talk to a person that like you feel like gets it or like is it was easy. She was easy to talk to.

00:18:48

Speaking of Greasefire, because it has been in the second episode of the show I'm watching now.

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So Vince and I are starting. I think everyone in the pandemic has to do this at some point.

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The law is The Sopranos. Oh, yeah. I did it already. You did it, right? Yeah. I didn't know this.

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Vince had never seen it before. I watched it from when it started. So I hadn't seen it in so long.

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Yeah. 20 fucking years. Yeah. So we're watching that. It's so good. Good. Edie Falco all day long. Edie Falco. I finished when I did it, which I think was actually

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last summer. So strange. Yeah, I remember that. Mid-quar. It was so good and I loved it so much.

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And then I just wasn't enough. So there is a suggestion if you feel like it and you

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haven't had enough at the end. I transitioned right into Nurse Jackie because yes, just the

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Edie Falco vibe of like, I'm taking care of things. You're really pissing me off.

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I have to talk like this. No, don't talk like that. You know, like the way she is.

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It just is. And Nurse Jackie is an amazing TV show. It is. I started that and I never, I don't know why I didn't keep doing it.

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But Edie Falco as that character, I love that character so much. And that's, you know, a huge part because she's so good at it.

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It's like, yes, it's brilliant. And he, James Gandolfini, I like, don't think I ever appreciated how good he was.

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it because I had never seen him before. But now watching him, like he plays this not stupid dummy

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so well, like him in therapy is so like he gets mad and he's like, I went to a semester and a

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half of college. I'm not stupid. I know how the psychology thing works. Hey, so did I.

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Hey, wait a second. I do too. That's me. That's totally me. Well, he's straight. He's actually

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a genius because he's street smart and he anticipates he anticipates like the mafia behavior, which

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is the whole game. So Sopranos, hook it up. This is our new Sopranos podcast. What's up?

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Someone should start that. I bet there's fucking 55. I bet there's 29. 55. Speaking of which, I thought you were using this

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Greasefire segue. Are you still doing stuff you've watched and listened to? I don't have anything.

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Let's move on. I was just excited to use a segue into Exactly Right Business. It was great. It was perfect.

00:21:24

Let's do it. It's like you just got started. Usually we both have 16. I know. This week's been slow

00:21:31

in my life. And if you've only been watching one show. Exactly. And I've been listening to old

00:21:38

books that I've already read. So, yeah, let's do exactly right corner. Let's do it.

00:21:44

So Kara and Lisa on That's Messed Up are joined this week by none other than ADA Casey Novak, actress Diane Neal.

00:21:54

She was on that show for six years. She is she basically is SVU in a lot of ways.

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Like if you're not talking about, you know, if you're not talking about Mariska or.

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That's right. Christopher Maloney. Yes, Christopher Maloney. So anyway, she's on there.

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That's that's a huge get. It's a big it's a big five. I feel I feel like for sure.

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And I think five is a sporting goods store. It's a big deal. And so I'm sure they're excited.

00:22:24

Big deal. Promo code murder. All right. So I saw what you did. Of course, our incredible movie pasta pasta.

00:22:32

Our incredible, our incredible movie podcast hosted by Danielle. And Millie this week, they're doing they're covering Gleaming the Cube, which is an incredible movie from 1989.

00:22:42

That was spoiler. This isn't a spoiler. Just tidbit filmed at my high school. Yeah.

00:22:48

And then also covering Memphis Belle, the 1990 movie. And it turns out that fucking none other than Tony Hawk, who was in Gleaming the Cube, liked their tweet about it, which is huge.

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I just love that guy. Oh, I just love that guy. Golden. He's the best celebrity.

00:23:04

I think he might be the best celebrity there. golden boy. And just just to know, I believe that those two movies they're starting there.

00:23:11

Was it good or was I horny? March Madness Brackets. So this is a hilarious thing that

00:23:19

they're doing over there where they're talking about these movies that we all saw roughly. I mean,

00:23:24

obviously, this is generational. Yeah. But we saw them when we were in our teens and we love them.

00:23:30

But were they actually good or did we just love every boy in the movie? That's right. So you guys

00:23:34

mentioned the Lost Boys and that also for me, Dirty Dancing was just what are these feelings

00:23:42

for me as a child? For me, I'm a little bit older. It was the Outsiders. I had every poster.

00:23:48

I had every, you had a different kind of crush on every single one of them. It was

00:23:52

such big feelings. Yeah. So follow them on Instagram. And then also we're really excited

00:23:56

to tell you guys that Danielle Henderson, the host of I Saw What You Did, wrote a memoir and it's available now for pre-order.

00:24:03

It's called The Ugly Cry. And you can go to the Penguin Random House website and search for The Ugly Cry to pre-order.

00:24:12

It's a big deal to pre-order. So please support Danielle Henderson by doing so. And it's going to be freaking incredible.

00:24:19

She is an incredible woman. She's such a good writer. And I love to I'd love to check this credit for her all the time.

00:24:28

But she is the inventor of the feminist Ryan Gosling meme that everybody loved for so long.

00:24:35

That's Daniel Henderson. That's the mind behind that meme. So she's very talented.

00:24:42

And I also want to I don't know if I told you this. When Elvis died, she sent the cat Mimi and Dottie a huge box of cat toys as like a gift to be like, sorry for your loss.

00:24:56

loss. That's very classy. And she got two of everything so they didn't have to fight over. How sweet

00:25:02

is that? It was just a really touching gesture that I, you know, I was so, I was blown away

00:25:08

by. So, yeah, that's really nice. Yeah, she's awesome. And just so funny. Yeah. And then also

00:25:14

the Banana Boys, Scott, Scott and Kurt. Yeah. This week, they have the amazing Akilah Hughes on their show.

00:25:23

You might know her. She's one of the hosts of the What A Day podcast. over on Crooked Media. And she's an amazing writer and a talent. And she's one of my favorite

00:25:33

people on Twitter. Yeah. She's one of the reasons I stay on Twitter because she says,

00:25:37

she says what I'm thinking all the time and it makes me really happy. So that's going to be a

00:25:41

great episode. I mean, with all the shit on Twitter that makes you want to quit every day,

00:25:45

I feel like that's a huge compliment, you know? Yeah, it's true. She, well, because also I think

00:25:51

a lot of people are going through that where I think it's almost like growing pains. Like we all,

00:25:55

I think everyone had their hatreds siphoned in political ways for so long. And now that's kind

00:26:04

of over for whatever reason, or maybe not, you know, in some ways, but not as in your face,

00:26:08

I feel like. Yeah, but now there is like a backlash of it where it's like now they're

00:26:13

everybody's putting it on everybody else. And it's like, all these ways of figuring out how

00:26:18

everyone's wrong all the time. And there's a lot of energy. And also, I think generations are being

00:26:24

blamed for it when I think everyone does it. I think everyone, it's a real indulgence that I have

00:26:30

to, I love hating. Believe me, this is me saying I get it. But I think it's a good idea when you're

00:26:38

on social media, just to check yourself every once in a while and just be like, am I here to point a

00:26:42

finger that maybe I should just go ahead and be pointing right back in my face? I think about that

00:26:47

a lot when I'm like, I'm trying to come up with tweets because I'm not a comedian, but I want to

00:26:51

be like funny and and topical and shit and then i realized like all of mine are like i hate this

00:26:57

and i don't like that and it's like don't don't do that only tweet just top you know for me funny

00:27:04

point like pointed let's take that out who gives a shit no no no no like i hate that way this person

00:27:11

parks it's like who cares don't put some negativity into the world you know right which is a hard thing

00:27:16

to do because, you know, negativity is kind of like the fertile soil of comedy, but there's other

00:27:22

ways to do it. So it's almost like the only the when I am in that position and I'm trying not to be

00:27:29

the old crab that I usually am. All I do is just go, well, what's like what's a what's this same

00:27:36

idea coming from a different direction? And just try to instead of writing like tweeting the first

00:27:41

thing you think of, tweet the third thing. Right. Or just like live a life of not trying to rip

00:27:46

other people down for your humor. But it's so satisfying. Do it. Tell your friends. Text it to your friends.

00:27:55

Don't tweet it. How dare she and how dare he and how dare they. That's right. Everyone's doing it wrong

00:28:00

but me. Here's me in the middle. Perfect. And pointing. And funny to the boot. Okay, hold on one second.

00:28:08

Buffalo! Buffalo! I'm sure Vince is like, is Georgia going fucking crazy? Is this it?

00:28:16

When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?

00:28:22

Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester-Prin's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.

00:28:29

It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.

00:28:36

This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.

00:28:46

Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks. And I'm Karen Kilgariff. We host Do You Need a Ride, the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question,

00:28:53

what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?

00:28:57

Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.

00:29:04

Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot. I want to become an influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college

00:29:12

who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves. Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery.

00:29:20

Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road. Oh, that's great.

00:29:22

Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.

00:29:31

Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:29:38

Thank you. You're welcome. How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130.

00:29:42

I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, The Matchup with Lalia, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.

00:29:51

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00:30:05

Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. OK, so this is a story that I watched when I watched.

00:30:16

I told you probably like a month ago about the British series from the 90s called Crime Story.

00:30:23

And this was one of the crime stories that affected me deeply and was very upsetting.

00:30:29

It's essentially very similar to like a John, a British John List story. Oh, shit.

00:30:36

So this was season two, episode six of the British series Crime Story. And so that's what that's where I got this idea.

00:30:44

But also in the research, we used Wikipedia, BBC News, the Sunday Times article written by David James Smith.

00:30:53

The Independent and a website called www.stuff.co.nz. So a new perfect. So a website from New Zealand called Stuff that doesn't seem to be porn.

00:31:09

OK, so there's also then I just last night flicking around HBO Max. There is also a current British series called The Murders at White House Farm.

00:31:20

And that's what this story is, The Murders at White House Farm. And that TV show cites an author named Carol Ann Lee who wrote The Murders at White House Farm.

00:31:32

And it also cites additional information from In Search of the Rainbow's End by Colin Caffill.

00:31:38

OK, so it's 3.26 a.m. on August 7th, 1985. And the Chelmsford Police Department gets a call from a man named Jeremy Bamber.

00:31:48

And he tells the officer, you got to help me. My father has rung me and said, please come over. Your sister has gone crazy and has got a gun. Quick reminder, guns are not common in England. This is also the the 80s. But this is the kind of thing where in America you'd be like, well, right? Yeah. Yeah. It happens. Very alarming over there, obviously. I mean, alarming everywhere, but very uncommon over there.

00:32:17

So according to Jeremy, after his father says this to him on the phone, the line goes dead.

00:32:22

And then when he tries calling his father back, no one answers. So Jeremy's parents are Neville and June Bamber.

00:32:29

They live at the family farm known as White House Farm, which is just outside the small village of.

00:32:37

Toulsant Darcy in Essex. Jeremy lives in the neighboring village of Goldhanger, about three, three and a half miles from the family home.

00:32:46

It's not Goldinger. It's Goldinger. It's Golden Girls. He lives in a village and everyone there is either a Sophia.

00:32:57

OK, he lives in Florida. The police would later note that Jeremy called the police station on its direct line instead of using the 999 emergency line.

00:33:09

OK, so Jeremy's instructed to go to his parents' house, the farm, and wait for police there.

00:33:15

And then three officers head out to the White House farm at 335 a.m. On their way there, they pass Jeremy's car and they note that he's driving much more slowly than they are.

00:33:28

So he's in no hurry to get there. They arrive at the White House farm a minute or two before Jeremy.

00:33:36

And then Jeremy and the officers begin walking around the perimeter. So it's kind of far back and there's like hedges around the actual house.

00:33:46

There's a whole farm and, you know, barns and outbuildings and stuff like that. But the actual house is kind of like they can walk around the outside of it kind of far away.

00:33:57

They can see that lights are on. They hear a dog barking. They don't see any movement inside the house, but they're trying to figure it out.

00:34:03

And the more they're looking like at one point in the made for TV movie that one officer is like somebody in the upside.

00:34:11

And then he's like, oh, sorry, that was a reflection. Like they're all getting freaked out the longer they're there.

00:34:16

And Jeremy's saying, let's just go inside. Let's go check. And the police are saying somebody could have a gun in there.

00:34:22

Like, yeah, we don't know what's going on. So we have to wait for backup. So the tactical firearms team gets there around five in the morning.

00:34:29

They decide not to try to enter the home until daybreak so that they have so they can see what's going on.

00:34:35

Yeah. But until then, the police start talking to Jeremy's sister, Sheila, on a megaphone based on Jeremy's report that Sheila was inside the house with a gun.

00:34:46

And they're saying, come out and everything's fine. And, you know, we just want to talk to you and everything.

00:34:51

You know, they get no response. Then they start to talk to Jeremy about what happened. And he says that it sounded like someone cut the call off as he was talking to his father. Police ask Jeremy why Neville would have called his son instead of calling the police directly calling the emergency line. Jeremy says that his father is a private person who'd want to keep this matter within the family.

00:35:14

He also mentions his sister, Sheila, is a quote unquote nutter who, quote, has been having treatment.

00:35:21

So, yeah, it would make sense that like this is maybe a common occurrence and you don't you don't want to get the attention of the cops or like if they come, they're going to arrest her.

00:35:33

And, you know, maybe he's being protective of her. Right. All those things are possible.

00:35:38

And and what the police are, since the police know nothing about any of it, they're just following this guy's lead.

00:35:44

So just before eight in the morning, police break through the back kitchen door with a sledgehammer and they're slumped on top of an overturned chair.

00:35:53

The police find the body of Neville Bamber He 61 years old He still wearing his pajamas and he has eight gunshot wounds There are signs of a struggle around the kitchen There broken dishes There damage to

00:36:05

the ceiling light. There's blood all over the floor. The door was locked from the inside and

00:36:10

the key was left in the lock. The rotary phone is sitting on the counter off the hook. In the

00:36:15

upstairs master bedroom, they find Neville's wife, June, who's also 61, dead in her bed with

00:36:22

seven gunshot wounds, including one between the eyes. And then tragically, they find Sheila's two

00:36:30

six-year-old twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas, each shot in their beds in the adjacent bedroom.

00:36:38

Daniel was shot five times in the back of the head and Nicholas was shot three. And then on the master bedroom floor, not far from her mother's side,

00:36:46

Sheila Bamber Caffel, who's 28 years old, has two bullet wounds below her chin, a Bible beside her

00:36:55

and a .22 rifles resting on her chest, pointing upwards towards her throat. The two gunshots is suspicious, right?

00:37:05

Highly suspicious. Yeah. Yes. So the Bambers are, just to go into the family background a little bit, they're a well-off family.

00:37:12

This is a 300 acre working farm that they have, and it was left to the Neville in June by June's father.

00:37:22

But they also own property in London and they also own a caravan site, which is basically like a campsite.

00:37:29

Life is good for the family for the most part. Throughout the 50s, June, the mom faced an uphill battle with depression.

00:37:37

She was actually hospitalized for it. When she was released, though, they decided to start a family, but they realized they weren't able to have children.

00:37:46

So in October of 1957, they adopt their first baby, which was Sheila. And then four years later, 1961, they adopt their son, Jeremy.

00:37:56

So both of the Bamber children went to private schools. And after graduating high school, Sheila goes on to study at a secretarial college in London.

00:38:06

shortly thereafter at age 17 she gets pregnant by her boyfriend colin kaffel so june bamber is very

00:38:15

very religious this pregnancy out of wedlock is a huge problem in the family it creates huge

00:38:21

problems neville and june actually make arrangements for sheila to get an abortion which she does but

00:38:27

the family dynamic is really bad and she's you know mother and daughter relationship is very

00:38:34

very strained. Then Sheila comes home with her boyfriend, Colin, and they get caught sunbathing

00:38:41

nude in a field. And June loses her mind. She calls Sheila the devil's child. Their relationship

00:38:47

is never the same after that. But Sheila and Colin continue dating. They get pregnant for a second

00:38:54

time in 1977, and they get married at the local courthouse. Sheila tries working as a secretary,

00:39:00

a hairdresser. She does some modeling, but she can't seem to keep a job. Then she has a miscarriage.

00:39:08

So that's really difficult. She has a very hard time. She and Colin have a hard time with that.

00:39:14

So the Bambers end up buying her her own apartment, a flat, to recuperate in, basically.

00:39:20

And then finally, in June of 1979, Sheila gives birth to her twin boys, Daniel and Nicholas.

00:39:26

But the problem is by that point, Sheila and Colin's relationship is actually falling apart.

00:39:33

The year before the boys are born, Colin leaves Sheila's 21st birthday party with another woman.

00:39:41

And Sheila spirals into such a rage and has such a breakdown that she smashes a window with her fist and she ends up having to be hospitalized for a nervous breakdown.

00:39:52

So by the time she's pregnant with the boys, Colin is fully having an affair. And when the boys are five months old, he leaves Sheila for the other woman.

00:40:02

So they divorce in May of 1982. And Neville buys Sheila a brand new apartment. And she and Colin, it's amicable.

00:40:11

They share custody of the boys. After her divorce, Sheila does a lot of partying with her friends, does a lot of cocaine.

00:40:20

she so even though her her flat was her apartment was bought for her her parents do not give her

00:40:27

additional money so she starts racking up a lot of debt because of the drugs and because she she

00:40:35

just kind of can't keep a job so she bounces from low-paying job to low-paying job she's a cleaner

00:40:41

for a while she works as a waitress for a while she even does a little bit of nude modeling just

00:40:46

to make the ends meet, which she completely regrets after. She just does it once. And in this time,

00:40:51

her mental health is declining the entire time. She has frequent outbursts. She has really bad

00:40:59

episodes where she ends up banging her head against the wall over and over. Actually, the kids get

00:41:04

taken away from her and put into foster care because she can't take care of herself. So she's

00:41:09

finally taken to a psychiatrist who diagnoses her with schizophrenia. In March of 1985,

00:41:16

she suffers a psychotic episode. She starts believing that she's talking directly to God.

00:41:23

There's lots of very, lots of, you know, unhealthy behavior. She says she fears her current boyfriend's

00:41:30

going to kill her. She says she thinks the boys, her sons, you know, are being controlled by the

00:41:36

devil. There's a lot of stuff like that. She ends up getting hospitalized for four weeks and she gets

00:41:41

put on a monthly injection of an antipsychotic. So that basically leads us up to 1985, right around

00:41:50

the time of when that event takes place So we go back a little bit and talk about her brother Jeremy So Jeremy was born on January 13th 1961 and adopted by Neville in June when he six

00:42:05

months old. And like his sister, he's sent to fancy private schools. And although he's a smart and charming boy, he has a hard time focusing on schoolwork.

00:42:15

And he ends up leaving what's the equivalent of a fancy private grammar school without

00:42:22

earning any qualifications. Neville goes crazy. This is like, you know, this is not what's supposed to be happening.

00:42:29

But he ends up basically kind of bouncing back and doing well in what's called sixth form college, which is basically 12th and 13th grade in America.

00:42:40

But so like when he gets older, he kind of gets his act together a little bit. But he he leaves school altogether in 1978.

00:42:48

and when he's 17, he decides he wants to go take scuba diving classes in Australia.

00:42:56

So his dad pays for it. And when he's down there, he does that. Then he goes over to New Zealand.

00:43:01

And when he's in Auckland, he stays with a friend named Brett Collins. Brett will later describe Jeremy as a Jekyll and Hyde type who can get, quote, quite nasty.

00:43:11

He's often kicked out of bars for his aggression, and he has a hard time getting along with Brett's friends.

00:43:18

So he's like staying at someone's house and trying to hang and then is just like, you know, not a chill dude.

00:43:25

Super aggro. And as we well know, you need to be chill in Australia. You super need to be chill in New Zealand.

00:43:32

Don't even like you. You yell at a card that cuts you off and you're being. Never mind.

00:43:43

It's easy to be a dick there because nobody's a dick there. everyone is so calm and trying to say we're wearing their beautiful sheeps sheeps wool

00:43:55

sweaters and just like acting like the flight of the concords and their white teeth and everything

00:44:00

nobody wants your aggro british friend okay so jeremy's determined to stick around new zealand

00:44:07

and make his own money um so he gets he ends up getting he starts with a five thousand dollar

00:44:15

gift from his parents. And he takes that money. And then this is his plan of making his own money.

00:44:22

And he meets up with a potential heroin supplier because his plan is he's going to be a heroin

00:44:27

dealer. That's how he's going to make his own money. Things do not go according to plan. The

00:44:33

quote unquote supplier just steals his money and never gives him any drugs. So now Jeremy doesn't

00:44:40

even have the nice chunk of money his parents gave him. So Brett takes Jeremy to a pawn shop

00:44:47

where Jeremy sells a bunch of his grandmother's diamonds, which is another inheritance he brought

00:44:52

along as insurance. But Jeremy quickly burns through that money, too. And since the only way

00:44:57

for him to earn his inheritance, which is over a million dollars in total assets that he has to

00:45:03

split with his sister, the only way he can get that inheritance is to come back and work on the

00:45:09

family farm when his parents and so basically he's running it when his parents after his parents die.

00:45:14

That's the plan. So Jeremy ends up moving back to Essex in 1982 into his father, the cottage his

00:45:22

father owns in Golden Girls, England. By day, Jeremy works his parents land. I mean, this is a

00:45:29

real farm. That was the part that I was blown out by because when I watched the crime story show,

00:45:33

it looked like an estate. And so the first version of this, when I was writing it, I was like,

00:45:38

The family estate, and I just thought they were super rich British people in the rich countryside.

00:45:44

But this is a full on farm and it's huge. And the cousins, because it's from June's family, the cousins on the mom's side live around the farm and work there, too.

00:45:57

So it's all kind of in the family. So by day, Jeremy works his parents land. And by night, he fuels up on cocaine and parties in London. He's upset about how little he's being paid for this farm work he does because it is hard, you know, manual labor. But he has been given a free car. And of course, his own house, the cottage that his father owns. He also owns 8% of the family's caravan site on nearby OC Road.

00:46:30

So in 1983, he meets a woman named Julie Mugford down at the Sloppy Joe's Pizza Parlor in Colchester.

00:46:39

Yes, take me there. Sloppy Joe's, the British Pizza Parlor in Colchester. You know how well British people do Sloppy Joe's and pizza.

00:46:48

So yeah, you might as well. So what you do is you get a Sloppy Joe and then you place it on top of a pizza.

00:46:58

If you had to eat a sloppy Joe or pizza right now, which one would it be? Pizza entirely.

00:47:03

You don't do sloppy. Sloppy Joes are, I'll just be this basic about it. Sloppy Joes are too sloppy.

00:47:11

I can't stand how messy this is. I eat them with a fork and a knife, for sure. You do?

00:47:15

Absolutely. No, you don't. Yes, I do. Do you really? I'm a big fan of that man, which I still, that's one of the things from my childhood

00:47:23

that I like, I can't quit you. Like, I put a thing on Twitter recently. And it was like, what's your thing?

00:47:28

This is a total aside. What's the thing from childhood that you can't quit? And mine is, and you've seen me eat this on the road, fucking Lunchables for sure.

00:47:37

Sure. But Sloppy Joe's are right up there too. Really? And it's, is Manwich, did it come in a can?

00:47:42

Yeah. It's like a can, like a can of sauce. Oh God. And then you put it, you make the ground beef and then throw that sauce in there.

00:47:49

Or ground turkey if you want to be healthy. Or soy, soy. Rizzo. Impossible soy rizzo.

00:47:56

I'm a big fan. Fancy Bunny art. our fans our family pepper jack on that shit yeah we didn't do sloppy joe's because my dad was a big

00:48:08

hamburgers on sunday person oh that's right i've had your dad's hamburgers they're legit

00:48:13

they're pretty good if he as long as you make sure to cook them all the way through

00:48:18

we've we've had some tragic nights where my dad threw them on and was like i like rare to you and

00:48:24

We're like, this isn't rare. This is still in the package. Okay. Okay. This is still in the package.

00:48:33

Sloppy Joe's Pizza Parlor. Wow, that was okay. 10-10 shots fired in City Hall building.

00:48:41

How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder.

00:48:46

This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.

00:48:51

I scream, get down, get down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.

00:49:01

It may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:49:12

Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks. And I'm Karen Kilgariff. We host Do You Need a Ride? the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question,

00:49:19

what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?

00:49:23

Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.

00:49:30

Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot. I want to become a influencer of divorced moms

00:49:36

whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves.

00:49:42

Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery. Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road.

00:49:48

Oh, that's great. Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass.

00:49:55

New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:50:04

Thank you. You're welcome. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

00:50:10

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,

00:50:17

one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS

00:50:24

and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:50:36

Go. Now, it's March 1985, and the caravan site I was telling you about, which is like a campsite, someone breaks into the office there and makes off with 980 pounds.

00:50:49

And this is right after Jeremy says to his uncle how lax the security at this caravan site is.

00:50:55

No arrest is ever made, but it is remembered by the family, of course. so several months later in august of 1985 sheila and the boys plan to spend a week at the family

00:51:06

farmhouse before the boys go away on a trip to norway with their father colin so colin drives

00:51:14

the boys to the grandparents house on august 4th 1985 but they tell him they don't want to go

00:51:21

because june makes them spend so much time praying on their knees and they're like six years old

00:51:28

And they don't like it. It makes them uncomfortable. But the whole thing is already been set. And, you know, it's like and he's obligated. It's basically what. Yeah. It's like what has to happen before he can take them away for the summer trip.

00:51:43

Oh, how tragic. Yeah. And at this point in the White House Farm Murders TV series, the actress who's really good that plays Sheila is basically super on drugs, on her meds, but they're really strong.

00:52:01

So she's kind of like a little bit zoned out and she's saying to her ex-husband, please tell my mother not to give me these shots anymore.

00:52:10

And he's like, I can't get in between it. Like, yeah, she already doesn't like me.

00:52:15

I said that because he actually tells June, please don't make the boys pray anymore.

00:52:20

And she, of course, is very offended. And it's a whole event. And he's just kind of like it's it's clearly bad things are afoot in that house anyway.

00:52:31

So two days later, on August 6th, 1985, Jeremy visits his parents and his sister and his nephews at the family farmhouse.

00:52:39

During that visit, he grabs one of his dad's gun, a .22 semi-automatic rifle, and he takes it out back to shoot some rabbits.

00:52:47

But he goes out there. He says he can't find any. So he comes back into the house and he leaves the gun along with the full magazine and a box of ammunition on the kitchen table.

00:52:58

Usually the family will later say that Neville usually puts a silencer on that rifle because it's really loud, I guess.

00:53:06

But according to Jeremy, the silencer is not on the gun at this point. So one of the farm workers hears Jeremy leave the farmhouse that night around 930.

00:53:17

And around the same time, the farm secretary, a woman named Barbara Wilson, calls Neville and he seems very irritated and very short with her, which he almost never is.

00:53:28

He's a very like kind and even tempered man. And she will later tell the police it feels like he was just in an argument.

00:53:36

OK. Like the way he was acting toward her, which he never did. Around 10 p.m., June's sister Pamela calls the house and speaks with Sheila, who seems quiet to her, which would make sense with the amount of meds she was on.

00:53:52

And then she speaks with June and she says she didn notice anything odd about her sister temperament And this would be the last time anyone other than Jeremy would hear from Neville June or Sheila

00:54:06

So in the initial investigation, the police are certain that Sheila snapped, of course, based on her mental health history, and that she murdered her parents and her own children before turning the gun on herself.

00:54:19

They eventually noticed that like in the investigation that there are two bullet holes in her.

00:54:27

And you have to kind of see it in this TV movie because they really like rationalize, rationalize, like because the first was an injury, but it was not a mortal wound.

00:54:38

So they're like, well, she could have shot a second time. But there's one police investigator and I couldn't tell if he was if it was entirely factual or if he was just a character to kind of, you know, represent the people who are doubters.

00:54:53

But he is basically saying, have you ever seen this in all of your years of investigating somebody who's trying to do a murder, suicide and shoots themselves two times?

00:55:02

It just doesn't seem likely. So they're definitely doubters from the beginning, but they all, you know, Jeremy kind of led them there with this story and it all played out.

00:55:13

And they're all, of course, insanely devastated by what they saw at that crime scene.

00:55:19

So they're just kind of trying to get it all taken care of and get the case closed.

00:55:24

Sure. So the Bambers cousins, the ones who live on the farm property, are not convinced that this is the story.

00:55:31

they say Sheila was a very gentle person who adored her children and none of this makes sense

00:55:37

they beg the police to explore the possibility of Jeremy's involvement but the detective chief

00:55:44

inspector Thomas Jones takes this very personally that they already have their theory and that

00:55:50

they're working on that questioning and yes so they he basically says how dare you question me

00:55:55

and throws them out of his office. And I think he calls the one cousin who is really there.

00:56:03

Anne Eaton is her name. And did you watch Game of Thrones? No. Oh, okay. The actress that plays Anne Eaton in this

00:56:12

played one of the people in Game of Thrones. That's awesome. She's like the leader that she's the one that...

00:56:21

Everyone else will know, but I don't know. I can't, but I don't... Game of Thrones, I love that show.

00:56:27

The names were terrible. I could, everyone's Tyron, Theoron, Breron, Blah Blah. But I think she was the sister who was the, like, the army general.

00:56:37

Okay. Well, but actually she was, I should say, Navy general because she had a boat.

00:56:42

Yeah. And she went and said, her brother, I believe, was Theon, who's the guy that got castrated,

00:56:47

I believe. Every time you ask someone to explain a scene from Game of Thrones, that's exactly what

00:56:51

it sounds like to me. so-and-so's sister got castrated and then they were in charge of the army navy surplus like it's

00:56:58

just yeah their name was high on chiron and then every single time someone i usually grocery stores

00:57:03

when i pay for something with a credit card someone looks at my last name hardstark and

00:57:06

goes do you watch game of thrones and i'm like no but i know i sounds like house hardstark

00:57:12

you should i swear though if that's one like once you're done with the soprano yeah

00:57:16

I swear it's a beautiful television show I think it's wonderfully acted I think the

00:57:23

journey of it and the amount of seasons I'm not against it it's just I never started

00:57:27

it and then it was too like too far gone so it's very fun I myself would say if somebody asked

00:57:34

me like oh that's not really my thing fantasy or don't bother but it's it's very well done Stephen do you have a piece

00:57:41

of information is it Gemma Elizabeth Whelan you were talking about who she plays probably yara grayjoy in game of thrones yes that's in her brother's theon grayjoy

00:57:52

yes gemma what's her name gemma elizabeth whelan gemma elizabeth whelan who is in many of my

00:57:59

programs and she's a absolutely wonderful actress hilarious she she does it all she does drama they

00:58:05

all do it all but she's really good okay okay good job so she plays ann eaton this cousin and

00:58:11

And she's very well where it's this cousin who starts out and you have to think of it this way, where this family, the entire family is murdered.

00:58:20

It is something that never happens. When does that ever happen? It's crazy. It's nobody expects it.

00:58:26

It's horrible. And then the idea that a mother would kill her own children, kill her own parents, like everything about it is so awful.

00:58:33

But slowly but surely, she's sitting there going like this doesn't add up. This is you know what I mean?

00:58:40

she has her doubts things are adding up and she's having to go in and argue with you know

00:58:45

trained professionals yeah who don't want to hear it and also who want it all closed

00:58:51

okay so and this sorry this is 1985 right yes okay yes yeah old school old school but also like

00:59:00

present day enough to like yeah it's not like crazy you know yeah okay but still kind of like

00:59:10

the 60s in a weird way where he keeps calling her in the i don't know if this is you know this is

00:59:15

just writing or fact-based he keeps calling her miss marble because she's like what about this

00:59:22

insanely outstanding like blowing her off right yeah here's some crazy mistakes the police made

00:59:31

okay first of all they're certain this is how it happened sheila murdered her entire family

00:59:36

so that's what they're looking toward and they don't secure the crime scene they don't conduct

00:59:43

a thorough search probably because it's such a devastating crime scene but it's not a thorough

00:59:49

So it's not it's not secure. It's not taped off. They don have any kind of forensic anything going on A couple of days after the crime they burn anything from the house that the victim blood can be cleaned off of y they take yeah they take bedding carpets clothing and they

01:00:09

burn it in a burn pile that's evidence it's called evidence and this cop who uh if he was real he it

01:00:20

He was on it was such an uphill battle. Yeah. He's the one that like he's like, why are we burning this stuff?

01:00:26

Why is this all the way already over? Like there's I don't like two bullets in the so-called perpetrators head.

01:00:36

That doesn't make sense. Like, you know, whatever. So an officer actually handles the murder weapon without wearing gloves, which was common back then.

01:00:45

Yeah. Still insane. And Jeremy and his cousins are all given keys to the farmhouse three days after the murders.

01:00:52

So anyone could go into that crime scene. It's basically destroyed of the possibility of gathering further evidence.

01:00:59

So on August 10th, 1985, another one of Jeremy's cousins named David finds the 22 silencer in a cupboard in the farmhouse.

01:01:10

He sees specks of what appeared to be blood and red paint on it. And they they call the police station and leave a message saying they found it and they wait for someone to call them back and no one ever calls them back.

01:01:22

So finally, they get a hold of the doubting police officer and he comes and goes, why did you wait so long?

01:01:28

And Anne says, we called down there and left a message and no one called us back.

01:01:32

So a couple of days later, another cousin finds scratches on the bottom of a mantelpiece which had been painted red.

01:01:38

So a theory emerges this silencer must have been on the gun at the time of the murders and the silencer component must have been scratched on the mantelpiece during the struggle between Neville and the killer.

01:01:53

And then it must have been removed and put in that cupboard, which means Sheila could not have done that.

01:01:59

Right. So on August. So on August 14th, 1985, they open an inquest into the murders and they present their case that it was a murder suicide perpetrated by Sheila.

01:02:13

Shortly after that, Neville, June and Sheila's bodies are all cremated and Daniel and the boys are buried.

01:02:20

So during this funeral and there's tons of press at this funeral, of course, because this story is, you know, worldwide, probably at the time.

01:02:29

Um, Jeremy is being comforted by his girlfriend, Julie crying. He's crying and leaning on her arm in, in front of the press, in front of the cameras.

01:02:38

But then later on at the wake, which was private, he's in good spirits, smiling and joking around.

01:02:44

Uh, of course, Anne and her cousins, all the cousins noticed this odd behavior. Um, later when Anne asks Jeremy if she could have her Aunt June's, a certain ring that she wore as a keepsake,

01:02:59

because she was very close to her aunt. Jeremy says he can't give it to her. Sorry. Sorry. I

01:03:06

can't do it. And at first he makes this weird joke where he goes, they all sit down to talk about

01:03:12

like basically the will. And he's like, yeah, they were in tons of debt. There's nothing left.

01:03:17

And Anne's like, there's no way that's possible. Like we've been running the farm and, you know,

01:03:22

they're in the business. They like, that's no way. And then he was, then he goes, I'm joking.

01:03:26

come oh i guess you do want something out of the will and she's just sitting there like

01:03:31

horrified like this is this crime is beyond horrifying and you're sitting here doing shit like this yeah yeah and being like you can't have one ring when you you know whatever so

01:03:44

so then she just can't she's just like something is super off here and this is not right

01:03:49

Then she notices and remembers that there is a window latch that if you go out a window and shut it a certain way from the outside, it will lock itself back.

01:04:03

And so someone could have done that. And it would have had to have been someone who had lived in the house because only the people who had lived in the house knew it, that you could make it look like the house was entirely locked from the inside.

01:04:17

so she also points out that if uncle neville was shot first in the kitchen and there's no silencer

01:04:25

on the gun why isn't one person running downstairs why isn't anybody else why is everyone murdered in

01:04:31

their beds yeah so it isn't long after the family's buried and all the funerals take place

01:04:36

jeremy takes julie and another friend on a trip to amsterdam uh according to the travel agent who

01:04:43

booked their flights, the group was in, quote, high spirits when they departed. And as soon as

01:04:47

they got back, Jeremy begins to sell his parents' belongings. But one month after the murders,

01:04:55

things between Jeremy and Julie begin to sour. Jeremy's losing interest in her. He's trying to

01:05:01

distance himself from her. There's a series of arguments that lead to physical fights.

01:05:07

This final straw from Julie comes on September 4th, 1985, when in the middle of an argument,

01:05:11

Jeremy gets a phone call from another woman. She slaps him. He grabs her arm, twists it behind her

01:05:17

back. Three days later, she calls the police. She contacts the police, I should say, because in her

01:05:24

initial statement, she told police that she'd gotten a call from Jeremy on August 7th, sometime

01:05:29

between three and three thirty in the morning, telling her that something was wrong at her

01:05:33

parents' house. And that was all he said. The police were like, why didn't you ask any questions?

01:05:40

and she told the police because she was tired. A month later, she's there changing her story.

01:05:47

She tells the police Jeremy had been talking about killing his family on and off for months.

01:05:52

She says that between July and October of 1984 Jeremy spoke ill of his parents and sister said he quote wanted to get rid of them all Julie said that Jeremy was angry his parents paid for Sheila expensive flat

01:06:06

even though he was living in that cottage for free, and that his sister was, quote, nuts and

01:06:12

that her kids were, quote, disturbed. She also claims Jeremy told her that he could sedate his

01:06:18

parents with sleeping pills, shoot them, set the house on fire to hide the evidence. And because

01:06:24

of her history of mental health issues, blame the entire thing on Sheila. So then Julie says that the first call she received from Jeremy just before the murders

01:06:35

actually happened at 9.50, the night of the murders, 20 minutes after he reportedly left

01:06:41

the farmhouse. And on this call, she says Jeremy tells her he's pissed off. He's been thinking about killing his family all day and that it's tonight or never.

01:06:50

Why would... Okay. What, what? Why would he tell her that? But you should also not kill his family.

01:06:57

Well, right. Like, it doesn't seem likely. But then if he's the kind of person that's like monologuing about this plan or like, yeah, he's he's there's perceived slights that he's mad about.

01:07:08

And then he's complaining to the girlfriend and he's more and more confiding in her.

01:07:12

Probably after a while, it's like she and she's maybe acting like it's OK or acting like she's in on it.

01:07:18

So or just doesn't know what to do and doesn't say anything at all. And so he just continues telling her.

01:07:22

So she claims she gets a call from Jeremy a few hours later, closer to three in the morning, in which he says everything's going well.

01:07:30

Something's wrong at the farm. I haven't had any sleep all night. So then after the police discovered the bodies at the farmhouse.

01:07:40

Julie goes to Jeremy's cottage where and the police are there with him. This is, you know, after the the horrible discovery.

01:07:48

and he pulls her aside out of earshot of the police and says, quote, I should have been an actor.

01:07:56

Julie also confesses she and Jeremy were responsible for the burglary at the family caravan site.

01:08:01

She gives up this information in exchange for her own amnesty for the crime. Police are able to use all this information to arrest Jeremy on September 8th, 1985.

01:08:11

He defends himself, saying Julie's just trying to get him in trouble out of revenge.

01:08:15

He denies having anything to do with killing his family. He insists he loved them very much, but he does admit breaking into the caravan site.

01:08:25

He said it wasn't for the money, but to prove the point that security was too lax at the campsite.

01:08:31

Then why take the money? Right. To prove the point. What? OK, so he gets arrested, but he absolutely insists he didn't do it.

01:08:41

The charge for the burglary sticks on September 9th. But he makes bail and he's released on September 13th.

01:08:48

Immediately. And this is where this story turned for me, where when I was watching Crime Story, I was like, sorry, what?

01:08:55

He goes to the Sun tabloid newspaper and tries to sell his story and his sister's old nude modeling photos for 20,000 pounds.

01:09:06

Oh. And not only does the son decline, but they run a story about the fact that he made them that offer.

01:09:17

So imagine, congratulations, you made a British tabloid cringe. That's how much of a sociopath you are.

01:09:26

They'll print anything. You wouldn't call them the most ethical of businesses. No.

01:09:32

And they were like, what the fuck are you doing? So so right after that, he goes on vacation to San Tropez with a friend.

01:09:40

And while he's gone, police begin to investigate his potential involvement in the murders much more.

01:09:48

One key discovery is traces of blood found on the silencer are found to match Sheila's blood.

01:09:55

But if she were to have killed herself with silencer on, how did it get in the cupboard?

01:09:59

Not to mention the silencer attachment would have made the gun so long she couldn't have positioned it underneath her own chin and then pulled the trigger at the same time.

01:10:12

That evidence is the final piece that is in the whole picture so damning that when Jeremy returns to England on September 29th, he's arrested again and this time for the murder of his entire family.

01:10:25

Jeremy Bamber's trial begins on October 3rd, 1985. He is oddly calm, as you would guess, and even arrogant sometimes while on the stand.

01:10:35

You know, the pictures will have pictures, but he reminds me a lot of the the preppy killer.

01:10:44

Yeah. Yeah. That cocky confidence of someone who thinks they get away with anything.

01:10:51

Yes. And that they look, you know, they're attractive men who kind of have that thing of like, I'll say what actually happened.

01:10:59

Right. It's an interesting. I don't know. Just when I first kind of saw those pictures, it's that kind of thing where you I think that happens sometimes with attractive people where people give them the benefit of the doubt.

01:11:11

Get away with more. Maybe they seem more believable. I don't know. Yeah. The charm, the charisma, whatever, or just the. Yeah.

01:11:21

OK, so he's being very cocky, of course, in the courtroom, as you'd imagine. At one point, the prosecutor accuses him of lying and he coolly responds with, quote, that's what you've got to establish.

01:11:34

Yeah. So, yes. So the prosecution lays out what they think happened in the early morning hours of August 7th, 1985.

01:11:42

After dinner with his family on August 6th, Jeremy leaves the farmhouse somewhere between 930 and 10 o'clock.

01:11:48

in the middle of the night he bikes back to the farmhouse using his mother's bicycle

01:11:53

that he had borrowed earlier in the week so he wouldn't be spotted on the road in his car

01:11:58

knowing which window else are easy to open. He jimmies a bathroom window at the back of the house. He slips in,

01:12:05

grabs the gun with the silencer attached, heads upstairs into the master bedroom where he first

01:12:11

shoots June. And then he shoots Neville, but Neville isn't killed immediately. And he is able

01:12:19

to make it downstairs because Neville was big. I mean, he was an older man, but he was like six

01:12:25

foot four, I think, big. And so basically he makes it downstairs and then father and son get into a

01:12:34

struggle and all through the kitchen. And then Jeremy basically finishes his father off in the

01:12:40

kitchen, goes back upstairs. He finds his sister, Sheila, struck with fear at the sight of her

01:12:46

mother's dead body, shoot Sheila in the master bedroom there, goes into the boys room and shoots

01:12:52

them both in their beds. So I know it's it's horrifying. After he positions Sheila's body to

01:12:59

make it look like a murder suicide, realizing that she wouldn't be able to reach the trigger

01:13:04

of the gun with the silencer attached, he takes the silencer off and hides it in the cupboard.

01:13:10

I was wondering why he did that. And that he figured that out on his own. OK. Yeah. The one

01:13:16

thing that is nonsensical is why would you hide it there and not take it anywhere else on that farm

01:13:23

or you know clean it yeah so the defense tries to argue that sheila could have just realized for

01:13:29

herself that she couldn't pull the trigger with the silencer on and removed it herself

01:13:33

but the prosecution argues if that were the case why would she place it back downstairs

01:13:38

she could have just set it on the ground beside her sheila's former doctor testifies in court that

01:13:44

while she did express suicidal or other violent thoughts, it's his opinion she was not capable of

01:13:51

acting on those thoughts. And also the cousins testify saying the exact same thing. Although

01:13:57

Sheila had mental issues, as many of us do, she would have never harmed anyone. And she was

01:14:04

dedicated to her children. Even her ex, Colin Caffel, said that for all their arguments,

01:14:10

Sheila would have never harmed her own children. So the prosecution also points out the struggle between Neville and the killer.

01:14:18

Sheila was a very slight, lean young woman. Her dad was six foot four and a strong man.

01:14:23

It was very unlikely she would have been able to overpower him in a struggle, even if he

01:14:28

were wounded. The defense tries arguing against the proposed motive of greed, saying Jeremy had more than

01:14:34

enough money from his parents, even while they were alive. They also argue that his girlfriend, Julie Mugford, is lying, retaliating against him

01:14:43

for their failed relationship. They claim Jeremy's cousins are lying about Sheila's inability to be

01:14:49

violent because if Jeremy goes to prison, they inherit the White House farm. Their final point

01:14:56

is that the blood results from the silencer don't prove a presence of Sheila's blood, but rather

01:15:01

the blood, that the blood may be a combination of June and Neville's because of course, back at that

01:15:07

time, it wasn't, you know, DNA like we know it now. If that is the case, then Sheila could have

01:15:13

taken the silencer off long before turning the gun on herself. So this trial lasts 18 days. On

01:15:19

October 28th, 1985, after a nine hour deliberation, the jury finds Jeremy Bamber guilty of all five

01:15:27

murders by a 10 to two majority. Because in England, there's a minimum majority necessary

01:15:33

for conviction. He's given five life terms and is recommended to serve a minimum of 25 years.

01:15:41

And the sentencing judge calls Jeremy Bamber, quote, a warped and evil beyond belief.

01:15:48

In November of 1986, Jeremy files an appeal on the grounds that the judge misdirected the jury.

01:15:54

It's rejected in 1988. In March 1989, Jeremy's lawyer argues that to three appeal court judges that the whole trial was biased against Jeremy.

01:16:05

On March 20th that also rejected But because the trial judge did criticize the police for their shoddy investigating Jeremy legal team is able to get the Essex police to conduct an internal inquiry

01:16:18

In 1991, Jeremy makes a formal complaint that the police withheld evidence. But this does lead to more evidence being found, including more blood samples.

01:16:28

But in 1996, a police officer who thought the trial had ended destroys this evidence.

01:16:33

God. Yes. Basically, Jeremy continues fighting his conviction with a bid for more evidence to be released as recent as May of 2020.

01:16:44

So a year ago, still doing it. There may have been outside campaigns from people who believe Jeremy was not guilty launched as recently as November of 2015.

01:16:54

But many of the supporters have since changed their stance and no campaign has been successful in lessening Jeremy's sentence or proving his innocence.

01:17:04

Jeremy Bamber remains in prison, but still maintains his innocence to this day. And that is the horrifying story of the White House farm murders.

01:17:14

Wow. I wonder if he'll ever get out. I can't believe 25 years. It doesn't seem like it.

01:17:21

I think there's too many. It's just like, even if all these things were terrible coincidences or whatever, it's just like, but you tried to sell your dead sister's nudes to this son.

01:17:33

Totally. To me, to me, that right there is just like. And there's no explaining those little I want.

01:17:40

I wish they could DNA test the silencer now. I wonder if they still have it somewhere that they don't.

01:17:47

I bet. Yeah. 200 people have touched it in the touching context when they had the evidentiary touching contest in the summer of 1986.

01:17:55

Remember when I was in preschool and had the foot washing station? Well, they have the evidence washing station.

01:18:01

And yeah, to teach the children. That's right. Oh, wow. All right. Now I want to watch that.

01:18:08

That was great. Yeah. Let's do some fucking arrays, though. Let's do it. We need them.

01:18:14

OK. Do we do a fucking array? Let's do a couple fucking arrays. Let's do a couple.

01:18:20

OK. You want to go? Sure. Mine are both kind of in the same vein. This one's from the fan cult from Sam K-14.

01:18:28

And it's titled Just Because It's Bad Doesn't Mean It's the End. Hey, MFM crew, cats and dogs.

01:18:34

My fucking hooray is that as of December 2020, I am two years clean of self-harm.

01:18:40

And on top of that, I graduate from college this May, this year with a bachelor's in biomedical engineering, an honors diploma and a minor in Spanish.

01:18:51

I know. I didn't see myself making it to this point at that time, two plus years ago.

01:18:57

And I'm so proud of how hard I've worked my ass off to get here. My mom introduced me to the podcast my senior year of high school.

01:19:04

And your comedy, positivity and awareness and action when it comes to mental health has made such a difference in my life.

01:19:11

And I'm sure it's helped so many others as well. Stay sexy and never give up on yourself, Sam K.

01:19:19

Wow. Congratulations, Sam K. Amazing. That's huge. Yeah. All of that is huge separately.

01:19:26

Each one of the degrees, each one of the majors, each one of those accomplishments is intensely impressive.

01:19:34

Getting past self-harm is enormous. Wow. Really big. Really amazing. Well done. This one is also from the fan cult.

01:19:43

It's from Trina and it says, My fucking hooray today is that I just finished paying off a huge loan that I took out to pay off my credit card debt.

01:19:52

in college, I spent way beyond my means and was very irresponsible with money. I had no idea how

01:19:58

to handle my newfound freedom and had been literally paying the consequences since.

01:20:03

It took me a long time to even make the decision to take out a loan for my debt,

01:20:07

but doing so allowed me to get a handle on those nasty interest charges. Yeah, that's what you got to do. I'm proud to say that I'm finally free from all those dumb decisions I

01:20:16

made circa 2013 I realize I very fortunate that I been able to do this at all this year but it also took a ton of patience and diligence I rarely have I needed to celebrate somehow Hence the write in Now I just need to pay off my car

01:20:33

Yes, I love hearing you talk about therapy and mental health. And every time I listen, I feel like I'm just hanging out with two really cool aunts that want to give me advice about life and stuff.

01:20:44

Thank you so much. That's incredible. It is so like Vince went through a similar thing in college.

01:20:49

Luckily, we didn't you and I didn't go so we didn't have to deal with it. But yeah, for real, he is similarly not knowing how to deal with credit cards.

01:20:56

But they on campus, they have like credit card companies setting up booths and giving

01:21:03

basically giving college kids credit cards. It's absurd. And yeah, it should be stopped immediately.

01:21:09

So the fact that you were able to get a hold of that instead of, you know, spending your

01:21:12

whole life paying that off is incredible. Yeah, it's huge. And it is, it's, you know, a lot of people there, it's true.

01:21:21

It's that kind of thing that happens all the time that we go like you, it's a fucking hooray and you should pat yourself on the back for it.

01:21:27

But you don't want to be like, it's a difficult time for so many people. Yeah. But at the same time, you get your credit, you know, in the context of your life.

01:21:35

You took care of a very big problem. Right. And that always should be celebrated.

01:21:40

Yeah. I'm like, I'm not anti credit card debt. It can save people's lives and make lives easier.

01:21:44

But when it's it's a scam, sometimes when it's taken advantage of people who don't know how to, you know, or just if you mismanage it and pretend like credit cards mean that the that it's there's no money anywhere or something.

01:21:59

That's what I did with it. And then I ended up having a 26 percent interest rate so that I could I could never have paid it off.

01:22:07

Never. Yeah. Until my friend found out my friend, Karen Anderson, who is super responsible and was like, called the company on my behalf as me and was like, no, no.

01:22:18

She was like, I'm making five payments. And then after I make my five payments, you're taking that percentage down to 20 and then it's going to go down.

01:22:25

And she basically explained it to them, which you can do. It's negotiable. That's crazy. Yeah.

01:22:31

This is from Instagram from the moon is my girlfriend. friend. My fucking hooray is that throughout high school, I dealt with severe depression and other

01:22:44

mental and physical health issues. It was so bad at one point, I really didn't believe I would

01:22:49

graduate. This impacted my academics. And for the past year and a half, I've been scrambling and

01:22:55

working hard to improve my grades. Well, this hard work paid off because I'm graduating with a 5.3

01:23:02

weighted GPA. What? Yeah. I barely graduated high school. And even I know that's fucking

01:23:09

excellent. I would have loved a 3.5 GPA when I graduated. And during my break at work,

01:23:17

I found out that I got into my dream school, the University of Florida. This is an extremely competitive school to get into. And I just assumed I wouldn't get in.

01:23:26

The fact that I got in not only surprises me, but also served as a reminder that despite mental

01:23:31

and physical illnesses that convinced me otherwise i am smart and can do anything i put my mind to

01:23:37

that's right happier than i've ever been and so fucking proud hashtag fucking hooray i feel

01:23:44

teary about these fucking hooray that's big yeah that's important that's an important life yeah

01:23:51

uh milestone an accomplishment and milestone these are all like a big milestoney that's

01:23:57

beating the odds, you know, that's great. Yeah. Yay. What was that person's name?

01:24:03

Oh, sorry. My girlfriend is the moon. My girlfriend is the moon. Congratulations.

01:24:08

My girlfriend is the moon. Love it. And you're, and on top of everything else, your girlfriend is the moon.

01:24:13

I mean, I bet she's, I bet she's romantic. She's just, she's Sarah stares down at you all the time with that glow.

01:24:23

Okay. This is from social media. It's from B-Day underscore 23. Yeah. B 23 My fucking hooray is that I just got home from getting my first dose of the COVID vaccine I been teaching my second graders in person five days a week since August Oh my God

01:24:42

that's so frightening. And this is the first time I've had any sense of peace all school year.

01:24:48

Wow. Today, I am especially thankful to all the incredible people that made it possible for me to

01:24:54

have this vaccine. Shout out to my fellow teachers. We are all kicking ass and doing the very best we

01:25:00

can. Thank you, Karen and Georgia, for all you do to bring joy to my Mondays and Thursdays.

01:25:04

I appreciate it more than you know, SSDGM. Wow. I mean, that is a really beautiful thing.

01:25:12

My sister is a teacher and my dad has a, what do you call it? A pre-existing issue.

01:25:20

and they both have gotten their second shots. Such a really... And it is, I can't wait until we are in summer

01:25:29

and everybody gets to feel that feeling. It's going to be, it's going to be, it's not going to be over.

01:25:36

It's still going to be a risk and people are still going to be affected from it.

01:25:40

But we're going to have a handle on it a little bit and it's going to feel like,

01:25:46

I don't think everyone's going to realize until then how frightening this past year has been until yeah until we're all on the other side of

01:25:55

terrible well you know why i think it's once people start really getting to enjoy themselves

01:26:00

in a normal way again that's when it's going to be like oh wow this has been unbelievable i tried

01:26:07

on a dress the other day when i was i'm in like cleaning out my closet and i almost started crying

01:26:13

I put on little heels and a purse that went with it. And I was like, this is the first time I've matched.

01:26:19

I haven't been wearing slippers. I've matched a purse to my shoes. You were doing some going outside cosplay.

01:26:26

Yeah. And then I put it all away. And there were fucking cobwebs covering my high heel shoe shelf.

01:26:35

As if I didn't need it. Hey, get in there with a duster every once in a while, sloppy Joe.

01:26:39

oh we have to end on that that was amazing all right well then uh thanks everybody for listening uh we love you yes we do and uh

01:26:53

you know keep up the good work everybody and stay sexy and don't get murdered Goodbye.

01:27:00

Sloppy Joe. Sloppy Joe. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

01:27:10

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,

01:27:16

one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS

01:27:22

and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The 6th Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:27:35

I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.

01:27:45

Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

01:27:56

I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:28:06

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

01:28:14

You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once.

01:28:19

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

01:28:26

Greg Gillespie and Michael Marancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

01:28:32

Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

01:28:39

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

264 - Goodbye, Sloppy Joe!

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