00:00:00
You guys were so excited to announce the network premiere episode of the newest member of the Exactly Right Family, the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast.
00:00:09
The True Beauty Brooklyn podcast is hosted by estheticians and entrepreneurs, Alex Shapiro and Elizabeth Taylor.
00:00:16
And they're joined by experts, friends and community members to answer listener questions about beauty and skin care that each one of us can relate to.
00:00:22
Alex and Elizabeth, they also host these segments inspired by their diverse clientele and share stories about living in a multicultural world.
00:00:30
And you can also check out their past full library of past episodes with tons of incredible guests, discussions and advice.
00:00:39
So enjoy the Exactly Right Network premiere episode right here and then head on over to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast for a brand new episode out today.
00:00:48
And you can subscribe on Stitcher, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen. If you like what you hear today, please write them a review.
00:00:55
And now, enjoy the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast. Goodbye. Goodbye. Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast.
00:01:05
I'm Elizabeth Taylor. And I'm Alex Shapiro. We're estheticians in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we work with really incredible, diverse,
00:01:12
ambitious, and driven people who are killing it in life. They deserve to be celebrated, and on this podcast, we're going to be sharing their stories
00:01:18
with you. Yeah, and in between our interview episodes, we'll have beauty school, where it's just the two of us, maybe some guest stars.
00:01:24
And we'll be chatting about beauty, life, weird shit about being in your 30s, and learning more about one another, because that's what makes us more similar than different.
00:01:33
Also, we're a lot of fun, and we have a super multicultural community, and we kind of think that you might too.
00:01:39
So, why not talk about all things beauty under one black and Jewish roof? Plus, we'll be answering listener questions, so be sure to write us at truebeautybrokenpodcasts at gmail.com.
00:01:50
All right, guys, let's jump into the show. Hey, guys. Hey. It's Elizabeth. And Alex.
00:02:11
Welcome to the True Beauty Brooklyn Podcast. Welcome. So, this is our very first episode on our brand new network.
00:02:18
So excited. Super exciting. We're on the Exactly Right Network, guys, but you know that because you're listening now.
00:02:23
I said it British for a second. I know. I slipped into my weird British accent. That's weird.
00:02:30
But I liked it. But it wasn't full. I was like, oh, it's a little British. I don't know where it came from.
00:02:36
Okay, so we're obviously very excited. Maybe a little nervous. I think so. So we were just warming, quote unquote, warming up, which was just a screaming at each other in weird British accents and laughing.
00:02:47
And that's how it just slipped out now. And singing Queen songs. Exactly. So that tells you everything you should know about us.
00:02:55
I guess this is a little representation of like what you'll be hearing. Yes, 100%.
00:03:01
This is 100% us real. Yeah. But we do get serious at times. Yes. And we wanted to just jump on here and introduce ourselves to you and tell you who is, I guess, like on the other side of these voices that you're going to hopefully be listening to once a week now.
00:03:16
You better, guys. Goddamn listen. No, but Alex and I are estheticians. We work in Williamsburg, Brooklyn, and we love skin care and we're obsessed with eyebrows.
00:03:28
But more importantly is we just, you know, are so lucky to work and live in this super diverse, incredible community.
00:03:35
and we've made friends with like just the baddest bitches that you could imagine honestly from all
00:03:41
different walks of life and all different backgrounds and it came a point where we were
00:03:45
just like we need to let the people know about all of our friends I think being an esthetician
00:03:50
is a really cool job for many ways I've been in this industry since I'm 19 it's been a long time
00:03:55
but you just get to know people so well totally yeah so well and I've had clients tell me oh my
00:04:02
Like they told me something and they're like, I haven't even told my therapist that, you know, you really get to to be really intimate with people.
00:04:09
For sure. And we get to learn their whole life story sometimes. And every now and then.
00:04:14
30 minutes. Yeah. Yeah. Somehow. Yeah. And then. Yeah. We were like, you need to record it all.
00:04:20
Yeah. OK. So the cool thing about Alex. For sure. And Alex. Well, we specialize here in intimate waxing for women.
00:04:26
But like you probably heard in the promo. I wasn't lying when I say Alex is the best waxer this side of the East River.
00:04:31
People cross bridges to come over here to hang with her and to get waxed with her.
00:04:35
But because we look at a lot of vaginas for a living every day, many times a day, we become really good at just becoming like really fast friends with people.
00:04:44
And people, as Alex said, like open up really fast to us. And I joke with girls like, you know, I'm probably the closest thing that's come to your vagina besides like your gynecologist and your boyfriend.
00:04:54
So there's no worries that like you're telling me everything about your life right now in the first 20 minutes of meeting.
00:04:59
it's very vulnerable but it's made my life so nice I think you've got a lot of friends
00:05:07
a lot of really close friends some of my clients have become very good friends of mine
00:05:12
oh totally, once you switch over from being green friends on the sidelines to blue friends
00:05:15
on the iPhone we made the flip flop I was like what are you talking about oh you know what I'm talking about, y'all know what I'm talking about
00:05:23
the blue bubbles it's true and I hope that we get to bring some of what we bring to the treatment room onto the podcast.
00:05:31
So even if you don't live in New York and you can't come get a beauty treatment,
00:05:34
you can come hang with us once a week. So we will gush all about everything that we know about skincare.
00:05:40
I think the other really cool thing about Alex is that I'm black. Alex is Jewish and white.
00:05:46
Same Z is different. No, you can be a black Jew. You can be a black Jew. Yeah. So we come from two different spectrums in terms of melanin,
00:05:54
in terms of sensitivities And so we can really teach about a lot of different skin conditions skin treatments about a lot of different therapies things you can do at home things you can do with your therapist
00:06:05
We can hopefully like help you find a beauty therapist. That's one of our goals is to build like a dope beauty community of just
00:06:11
like bad bitches out to help each other. Dream come true. That is what we've done.
00:06:17
Yeah. We want it even. We want it even bigger. Worldwide. Worldwide. Bad bitches worldwide.
00:06:22
Unite. Yeah. Yes. I'd love that. less cheerleading um so what else what else can we tell you about us um i'm a native new yorker
00:06:36
i have to say that because native new yorkers love to do that that's true yes we are am i a
00:06:41
native new yorker too no technically well yeah okay so i've been in new york city for almost 20
00:06:45
years now my grandparents my great-grandparents and my parents are all from new york i was raised
00:06:51
and upstate New York. That wasn't by choice, all right? I would have stayed here if it was my choice.
00:06:57
I came back as soon as possible, but Alex is pretty much here from day one. Yeah.
00:07:03
She escapes for a little bit to Long Island, but she came back. And people are always like,
00:07:10
oh, you don't sound like you're from Long Island. I'm like, what are people's ideas
00:07:13
of what you're supposed to sound like? We'll get a couple of tequilas back in you,
00:07:17
and you can start hearing it come out. her stepmom for let's just say right now has the greatest the greatest queen's accent that you could
00:07:26
ever imagine so just imagine how alex is like oh my god when it starts to come out i love it it's so
00:07:31
good it's so good i don't even realize it but anyway i'm really excited for all of you to join
00:07:39
us and get to listen to all of the journeys that we talk about because we really do a lot of our
00:07:45
guests i mean we just have them start from the beginning of their lives and it's so interesting
00:07:48
to see how people's lives play out. Totally. I hope that you get to learn a lot and get some advice.
00:07:55
Yeah. Maybe you need advice and you can get it from some of our guests. Yeah, for sure.
00:07:59
I don't know if I can provide that. I mean, we can give you skincare advice for sure.
00:08:02
We can give you brow advice for sure. Relationship advice, maybe. Career advice, working on it.
00:08:08
Yeah, working on that. But we'll do what we can for sure. And then the things that we can't teach you,
00:08:14
we bring in incredible guest experts. So we have, like we were saying before, so many of like the smartest, most incredible people that we're so lucky to call our friends
00:08:23
now. But, you know, instead of just us bitching and moaning about things, we're like, well,
00:08:29
let's bring on somebody who actually knows and can tell us why things are instead of
00:08:33
us just, you know, making shit up and getting more and more mad, finding solutions to problems,
00:08:37
hopefully, which is what we really try to get to the bottom of. And my personal favorite part of our podcast are our segments.
00:08:44
I know that's like your favorite too. For sure. The segment is like what made me want to do the podcast.
00:08:49
I was like, we need to talk more about just differences and similarities and hilarities that come within being in a multicultural world and being in multicultural relationships and just things that you don't know until you get to know one another.
00:09:03
Right. Until you become true friends with one another. Like totally. It's one thing when it's like, oh, my friend, you know, so and so from class.
00:09:10
But it's another thing when they invite you into your home and like you see, you know, different smells and different traditions and different, you know, all those cool things.
00:09:18
But also like let's explain our segment. OK, so I was just thinking about this this morning because to me it's just I love it.
00:09:29
OK, so one of my favorite segments is called Milk with Your Dinner. And Milk with Your Dinner comes because when I was a kid growing up and probably you guys, too, maybe you didn't notice it.
00:09:39
maybe you didn't. But in all of the movies in the 80s, like these white families would have glasses
00:09:45
of milk on their dinner table. And I just never really like we didn't grow up drinking milk out
00:09:50
of like a whole glass of milk period, let alone with your dinner. Like that was just never something
00:09:54
that would ever come across my us, our household period. It just didn't happen. And it was this
00:10:00
thing that like I didn't do, you know, like watching movies, I knew that things that happened
00:10:05
that was reflected back to me. Some things were real. Some things were false. Like some things I
00:10:09
saw within the black community like were true and other things were just made up and so this milk
00:10:13
with your dinner thing i thought was one of those things that was made up it was just like put there
00:10:16
to be like a wholesome family and then when i started dating my partner who's a white man
00:10:22
his ass loves milk he loves dinner all the time not necessarily with his dinner with his dessert
00:10:30
like in the middle of the day like dessert i kind of understand bitch i would never drink a whole
00:10:34
glass of milk period no i don't think i ever have no and so the more i would ask my friends who were
00:10:39
also in multicultural relationships specifically about this one thing was milk does your white man
00:10:44
drink milk i found more often than not they would laugh and be like bitch what is with white guys
00:10:52
and milk it's a thing it's a thing and so i just it became this funny thing that we laugh about but
00:10:58
i would think what else is out there that we can just like laugh about about differences like
00:11:02
Turns out there's lots of things. There's so many things. Like, what hair? If you're a woman of color, you know exactly what I'm talking about.
00:11:09
Black ladies, put your hands in the air. We don't leave the house with our hair wet.
00:11:13
Never. Not once. We just don't do it. Growing up in a small town, we were the only black family, and I would always see, like,
00:11:20
white girls at school with wet hair. And I was just like, this is so fucking fascinating.
00:11:25
What is that like? Like, and then what do you do with that? And then what do you do?
00:11:28
It just dries like that. So super silly, but just ways I think that we can talk and laugh and get to know each other and become more, you know, working more towards a more perfect union.
00:11:45
I wanted to be like, so we can really like learn about each other. Nothing to learn about going to school with your hair wet.
00:11:49
You're just going to school with your hair wet because you're lazy or you're late.
00:11:53
But you could. That was the difference is that you could Yeah You know that a privilege I just wish there was like some good background I could tell you Like when you told me about how you care for your hair there like a science to all of it
00:12:05
Oh, you mean white supremacy? Yes. But even when you were like, yes, I sleep with the bonnet because it doesn't get my hair messed up.
00:12:16
Yes. Why do you go to school with your hair wet? I have no reason. Because your mama stopped sleeping with the bonnet.
00:12:21
That was the problem. Y'all stop going to bed with your hair and curlers and the bonnet.
00:12:25
Yeah. Do you see, guys, we learned about bonnets together. I'm not going to lie.
00:12:28
I've come to work once or twice with my hair wet, and I'm like, don't judge me. I was running late.
00:12:34
I'm sorry. Don't judge me. No, but it's fun. And we learned a ton, which is so great.
00:12:41
We do. Yes. Our other segment, which I really love, is I didn't know then, but I'm older now.
00:12:45
Yes. And it's when we discuss things that we did when we were younger. sometimes it's just something we used to do like a couple years ago exactly sometimes it was last
00:12:53
week yeah but mostly i know for myself it's like things i did as a pre-teen or like an early teen
00:12:59
like either fashions or 20s yeah either like weird fashion decisions or just like dumb shit i would
00:13:06
do yes or just terrible life decisions like letting that man tickle your feet through the window
00:13:10
that'll happen in community college when he told you that happened oh no my family's gonna know now
00:13:15
You didn't. That happened. That happened. There's weird people out there. You know.
00:13:20
But you're just young sometimes and you don't know what's that. No, but then we had a great guest on who told us about the time that the man asked her to stand on his chest and came to find out that that was some sort of fetish.
00:13:32
What was it? Like stomping, crushing, something. It's called stomping. It's called stomping.
00:13:35
You see, so guys, the more we share, the more we learn. I'll just have a fetish guy.
00:13:40
Our friend Kirsten had stomping fetish guy. now y'all bitches know don't let men touch you in weird places no also that was the weird early
00:13:48
odds maybe young people know better now time in life and the internet wasn't the same i would have
00:13:53
known maybe it's true your nokia fucking phone like didn't have enough like minutes yeah no
00:13:59
minutes yeah you couldn't even call nobody girl nights and weekends only so what else um okay so this episode that we're sharing with you guys today is really special
00:14:10
because another fun thing that we do monthly is we have our beauty guru bestie, Sabrina Rowe Holdsworth, stop by.
00:14:18
Sabs is an incredible celebrity hair and makeup artist. She did your and my makeup for the artwork that y'all are looking at and her hair.
00:14:28
And she works with all of your faves, faves. She works with Phoebe Robinson. She works with Ilana Glazer.
00:14:32
She works with fucking all your faves, faves, everybody. So we're so lucky that we get to call her a good friend.
00:14:39
And she comes to answer your guys' listener letters, all of your beauty questions, your skincare questions, your hair questions, your nail questions, whatever you guys got.
00:14:47
We can answer it. Sabs can answer it. Yes. And Sabs also happens to be the owner of Natural by Sabs, an incredible hair and skincare line.
00:14:56
So today, you guys are going to learn about Natural by Sabs. Yay. We're going to move you our little friends.
00:15:02
I love it. It's a great product line. It's an incredible product line. It's for all types of curly hair.
00:15:08
So I have, you know, kinky, curly, African-American hair, black hair. Alex has wavy, beautiful blonde hair.
00:15:17
That's really nice. My hair's really dried out from bleaching it. And it's more straight than anything.
00:15:23
When I'm lucky, it gets a wave. No, it's wavy. It's wavy and gorgeous. But we both have products that natural by Sabs we can use in our hair.
00:15:30
We both use this shampoo. I don't think that's really been done where like a line truly can be used on anyone.
00:15:36
Yes, for sure. My boyfriend loves his soap on a rope, as he calls it, his shampoo bar.
00:15:43
But she just makes incredible hair and skin care products. And so we thought that we'd have Sabz on today, speaking from a business standpoint as an entrepreneur, introduce her to you guys.
00:15:54
And then you get to hear, I guess, like the trifecta of who you can expect on the show.
00:15:59
For sure, at least once a month, the three of us, always the two of us. Sometimes you have some other guests to us, too.
00:16:05
So that's it. It gets real fun. So, you guys, thank you so much for tuning in to our very first episode on the Exactly Right Network.
00:16:13
I'm getting really emotional right now. I'm going to try not to cry. I'm really excited.
00:16:18
And, yeah, we're just excited to be here. So listen to our episode. Thanks for listening.
00:16:24
We'll see you guys in the outro. And we love you guys. See you on the flip side.
00:16:29
Bye. so sab so you were our inaugural guest for the first episode ever ever ever of the true beauty
00:16:48
brooklyn podcast and we were just talking about how we just you know i was like can i just come
00:16:55
over you can do my hair and tell me about your life and now look where we are i know i love that
00:17:00
that was the first episode i know and now it's a new first i know i'm really excited i was really
00:17:06
happy that you guys asked me to do it obviously you have had access to some incredible people
00:17:12
but i'm better than them it's a lot and you know you could have asked anyone and i appreciate that you guys asked
00:17:24
oh we love you and also i think that we have a really i don't know i think the people's like
00:17:29
to hear us all together my sister tells me that they're her favorite episodes when the three of
00:17:33
us are together because we're fun because we're really fun probably because we're really friends
00:17:37
exactly exactly so it's very easy to listen to us fuck around it's true it's true it's literally
00:17:45
what we do is fuck around i know okay so why don't we start at the beginning even though you told our
00:17:49
listeners before about the beginning of your journey i feel like let um we introducing you the first time i guess is like this fantastic celebrity hair and makeup artist and now you still are those things but you have your incredible line and you starting a different
00:18:05
I know I'm now a founder. You're a founder. It's so interesting because the brand, the beauty brand is under my existing business.
00:18:15
And I did that on purpose because I started a new business during a pandemic, like a psychopath.
00:18:20
you know eventually someday it'll have to be its own entity but for now it is under my existing
00:18:29
business and you know I was like how am I going to put this on Instagram like you know when you're
00:18:35
like describing yourself I hate doing that part obviously I don't like the heat I don't want that
00:18:42
smoke I don't I don't love that kind of attention but at the end of the day these are my formulations
00:18:50
This is my baby. It means the world to me. I know that I'm super privileged to have been able to do this in a time where so many people lost their jobs.
00:18:59
And I was like, I'm going to use all the money that I have and turn them into little black bottles of product.
00:19:08
Because, again, I'm a psychopath. So I was talking to a friend and she was like, you're you know, you founded a brand.
00:19:17
I was like, oh, that's, that is what I did. I founded a brand. It's a big deal. Yeah.
00:19:24
I don't know if I have myself listed as founder or mother or what it is. Mother.
00:19:30
It is a big deal. Well, that's what I wanted to put mother because everybody's always like, oh, you're happily married.
00:19:35
Where are the kids? And I'm like, that's why I'm happily married. Same. Don't try to sell me a lie.
00:19:44
Honestly. can I say something real fast about the natural by Sab's nourishing conditioner so remember I bought a
00:19:52
second one off of you and then I moved and I've been living in limbo and I had used
00:19:58
the very last of my old bottle and I didn't know where I had packed the new one and I
00:20:02
just didn't wash my hair for many days until I found it because I didn't want to use anything else
00:20:09
I've gotten very attached to it and when I found it two days ago the way that I yelled out Kyle was like what happened
00:20:15
and I'm like just hair conditioner. That's great. And I'm glad that you love it as much as I do.
00:20:21
It certainly loves your tresses because the ends of your hair are looking not ratchet at all.
00:20:27
It's honestly not ratchet. It's also the oil. We did good color. Like we didn't overlap.
00:20:34
Like I just think it's one step in the right direction of your hair journey. I go to this gal who's just great with color.
00:20:41
It's just like the greatest color. It's just great. But I have to give credit to all of the beautiful, incredible colorists that train me and let me watch them and, you know, listen to my, you know, million questions because I'm so painfully annoying when I'm trying to learn something.
00:21:00
Okay, so Sab, so take us from, take us to the beginning. Take us to, start from the beginning and we'll work your way, we'll work our way forward.
00:21:09
I know like we were saying before like you did this once before but why don't we just they kind
00:21:13
of do it one more time for the people who maybe didn't listen to episode one but then take us
00:21:18
in the middle of your journey let's take a short version because I'm like y'all can listen to that
00:21:24
episode oh stop so how are we gonna take up how are we gonna take up your time with you here
00:21:29
I mean there's plenty to talk about are you kidding me we could just talk about conditioner
00:21:34
for an hour we don't need to talk about like my you talk about how you want to and we can direct
00:21:39
We can direct them to the first episode, but it doesn't matter. You are such an organic moment.
00:21:47
Like it would feel just just start. Look, you we love you. Sounds. But this is the format.
00:21:52
What's your name? Who are you? Where are you from? Start at the beginning. This bitch trying to jump shit like bye.
00:21:58
Like bye. You know me, bitch. You know me. You look me up. Google me. No. Tell them.
00:22:03
Who are you? Actually, that was my client. My old client, Jess White, said that on an episode of Tyrell on MTV.
00:22:10
That's hilarious. And they were like, who is you? And she was like, Google me. And then she told me it was like a scripted reality show.
00:22:17
I'm like, oh, I love that. I love that. Anyway, so my name is Sabrina Rowe Holdsworth, which is my married name.
00:22:23
It used to be just Sabrina Rowe, which for business it is still Sabrina Rowe. Shout out to Winston.
00:22:30
I'm a very proud daughter. I am originally from the Bronx, New York. I am 100% a New Yorker through and through.
00:22:38
I was born to two Latin parents. One is Puerto Rican. My mom is from Puerto Rico and my dad is from Panama.
00:22:47
So he's Afro Latino. And he just is like, I'm black, y'all. I'm African. He very much doesn't subscribe.
00:22:56
He's like, I'm black. You don't need to know anything else. He won't even speak Spanish to strangers.
00:23:03
Yeah, he gave that up years ago. He's like, no, I've had enough trouble. I'm just going to be black. Leave me alone.
00:23:09
The limbo wasn't cute. I get it. I live in limbo. But yeah, I am a third generation hairstylist.
00:23:17
So my grandmother was the first. But I'm sure there's plenty more because like I have a cousin who was a barber.
00:23:24
Like it's very much a Latin thing to do hair. And so my mother did hair. And where my grandmother's passion was hair, my mom did it because it was a job.
00:23:33
She immediately had a job in her mother's salon. And was your grandma up in the Bronx doing hair?
00:23:38
No, no, they were in Chicago. They eventually came to New York, but she, she worked in Puerto Rico, then from Puerto
00:23:47
Rico to like a quick pit stop in New York. And then they, my mom grew up actually in Chicago and like went to high school there,
00:23:56
which is so bizarre and then came back to New York. So. My grandma had salons in both Chicago and I believe in New York.
00:24:04
She died before I was born, so I don't have full tea on her. Full disclosure, she was welcoming of the melanin.
00:24:14
So we never really got that deep about her. Right. Because I think it was a source of strain in my parents' relationship.
00:24:23
Yeah. But anyway, yeah. Yeah. So one would say that hair, you know, or beauty rather was in my bones.
00:24:34
Yeah. Because before I wanted to be a hairstylist, I just happened to be good at it because I had mixed texture.
00:24:40
And, you know, at the time growing up in the 80s and 90s, I didn't there wasn't a lot of I mean, there were certainly plenty of mixed kids, but there wasn't like, you know, now we have brands called mixed shit.
00:24:53
It is very much, you know, a relevant conversation, all of the different iterations of curl.
00:25:00
Yeah. And I grew up where you're like black or you're Puerto Rican. And so either you have black hair or you have Puerto Rican hair.
00:25:06
And so I had sort of the mix where it is extremely fine curly hair. So now, like, you know, it's very clear.
00:25:17
People like, oh, yeah, you have mixed. You're mixed. Right. You know, then it was like, why is your hair so soft?
00:25:22
you must got Indian in your family. Yeah. But too, it's back in the day there, like even,
00:25:29
I mean, I grew up in the middle of nowhere. So when we got a shelf in a Walmart,
00:25:32
it was a very big deal, but like there wasn't, I mean, there was like blue magic.
00:25:37
There was like the pink stuff. of course. There was, Queen Helene, baby Queen. Yeah.
00:25:42
And then that's not even before we start talking about the relaxers, right? Like there just wasn't,
00:25:46
and that's what you do. I used to buy the olive oil hair masks from the ethnic section.
00:25:50
Ooh, you have a nice section. Never scared. She was never scared. She's like, I'm going to have black friends.
00:25:57
I was just like, I'm going to grease my scalp tonight. That's right. That's right.
00:26:00
That's right. You're like, I don't know what edges are yet, but I will. I just remember being like, I need something for my dry ends.
00:26:10
And this seems like it will work. Yeah. How did it work? It was great. You see? But there wasn't a ton.
00:26:17
there just wasn't at the time there wasn't a lot of different types of products at all like we all
00:26:23
had a big joke about about like frizzies like three girls with three different types of hair
00:26:28
and all of us went into cbs like yo can i get the frizzies is it gonna make my hair beautiful and
00:26:33
shiny and flowy like this lady okay but also full disclosure the picture that they do like the before
00:26:40
like your crazy frizzy hair and then after I'm like guys yeah no don't do that to black children
00:26:48
that's rude as hell yeah honestly it's like how are you gonna lie like don't do that like there's
00:26:54
no straightener like she didn't blow dry that shit like they package that like you ran it through
00:27:01
your hair and you and you were that was it you're a mermaid so you know my hair pretty well you know
00:27:07
my hair very well but when I was like going through puberty my hair was very strange it was um
00:27:13
very wavy and unruly and frizzy just for like a couple years and I remember buying like frizzies
00:27:22
made some like creamy product that you pumped out yeah the pump the pump it made my hair just
00:27:27
look greasy and frizzy like it was horrible it wasn't heavy enough I know like now obviously
00:27:34
that I know about product, I have a completely different sort of, uh, uh, an impression of the
00:27:41
product. I realized like, okay, this is what was not happening. It wasn't heavy enough to weigh down
00:27:47
the frizz, but it was oily enough to make your hair appear oily. So it was like not enough
00:27:54
emulsifier. Um, and yes, but it's, I mean, obviously I don't know the exact formula,
00:28:03
so I don't want to go too deep but it just it was it was a good idea just not executed well
00:28:09
well and it was like what else was there at the time you know it's funny because the thing is that
00:28:14
free for these did work for some people so if you were lucky to fall into that category you're like
00:28:20
this is the truth who was it this stuff is amazing I had a woman maybe six or seven years ago
00:28:30
um and that seems like a long time when I say it now because we've had such a fucked up year
00:28:37
um the year like aged us all for 10 years but the she brought in she was from overseas from
00:28:45
London and she bought me frizzies for her blow dry and I was like okay and then I remember seeing her walking down the block and I was like you know she's like yeah
00:28:59
because this makes my blow dry last really long. And all I was thinking was, yes, perhaps in London,
00:29:06
where the water is different and the humidity acts differently. Welcome to New York Summer.
00:29:12
Clip 2 gave her her blow dry. She was like, it is quite expensive for a blow dry.
00:29:16
I'm not here. Welcome. Gave her her blow dry. And I remember seeing her like two days later with her hair curly,
00:29:23
walking with her man. And I was like, see, I told you. One glass, girl. One glass.
00:29:29
You thought you were going to get that same situation. All right. That's very interesting.
00:29:34
Humidity and all these things. In New York, it's very different. So like I said, there were plenty of women that were like,
00:29:42
frizzies is the truth. Right. But yeah, not in New York. Yeah. So you're growing up in the Bronx and you are,
00:29:51
when you were in high school, is that when you started to kind of like toy run with hair Because like as you kind of taking us down and saying that your hair didn really fit into any one category So did you take it upon yourself to figure it out I would not say that I figured anything out
00:30:06
I think I was experimenting and I went to an art school. So makeup and like wig work and, you know, sort of character stuff with my curriculum.
00:30:19
Yeah. Nice, nice, nice. LaGuardia for the performing arts. which, yeah, y'all know the famed school.
00:30:28
I did not graduate, though. Like, I just want full disclosure because I think everybody gets super excited.
00:30:33
And they're like, oh, my God, I went there. Oh, I wanted to go there. And, like, I was not some, like, success story out of LaGuardia
00:30:39
and had, like, you know, a Timothee Chalamet moment. Like, no, child. I went to LaGuardia.
00:30:44
Like, a lot of LaGuardians appreciated the program, but I was going through a lot of personal shit at home,
00:30:51
so I did not make it to continue. Like, I didn't finish. I dropped out and got my GED.
00:30:57
And then I really like went hard and like trying to figure out a job in a situation.
00:31:03
And that's when all that stuff that I've learned there became like, OK, so this will just be my passing through stuff.
00:31:10
Like I didn't go to prom. I did some of my friends for prom, you know, and like instead of having a sweet 16 or a quince, which, you know, I'm not Mexican, but like, you know, my parents were like, you can have a sweet 16.
00:31:22
I was like, no, I want a box of makeup. I wanted a kid. I'm very like, listen, I'm going to be famous someday.
00:31:31
So I need to be able to make myself look good because I don't think anybody's going to be able to handle my all this.
00:31:37
Nobody can handle all this. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So let me which is totally not true. There are plenty of incredibly talented hair and makeup artists.
00:31:44
But I was just so insecure. And, you know, just having a mom that didn't understand my hair and, you know, my sister's hair texture was different.
00:31:51
Like I'm I'm I come from a big family and we all have different hair being mixed.
00:31:56
So it was like, you know, from like four four C to like two, you know, like it was a run of the gamut.
00:32:04
And for those of you that don't know what those numbers mean, it just means from like as coiled curly as possible to as straight, like as straight of a wave you could imagine possible.
00:32:17
So, you know, you lay on it and it's straight. you put your hair in a ponytail and it falls straight right right right you lay out in a way
00:32:26
but it's not really a way but it's enough that we can mention that it's a way right okay um and then
00:32:32
so so all right continue so you what was next for you after like high school and like you got your
00:32:40
kit from your mom and then like where did your well that was the start of my kit because that
00:32:45
wasn't like my real kit it was just like it really like wet my palate and got me like really
00:32:51
into sort of playing with makeup and playing with realizing not like it could be a supplement,
00:32:57
you know, of my income. Um, and so like a fast forward, cause I don't really want to like
00:33:05
rehash every step of my, it's like, not, not my fuzzy warm place. Yeah. Take us where you
00:33:12
want to take 20 years doing this shit. So, um, I, it basically like it really sort of set off
00:33:19
when my mom felt ill with cancer. And then I realized like, okay, I have to step up for my
00:33:24
family and I've got to be an adult now. Um, which just meant like, you know, the money I made wasn't
00:33:32
just mine. Like the money I made was for me to help my dad for, you know, for my siblings to
00:33:39
feel that pressure because like my sister was going to college and like trying to figure out
00:33:43
her shit my brothers were still still in parochial high school and I had to help them you know with
00:33:49
their tuition and stuff um and I realized like okay like I can actually make money doing this
00:33:57
and even like even at that point I still thought it was like a pause I did not it took me so long
00:34:04
to realize like girl this is your life now what did you think that you're gonna do what was the
00:34:07
I thought I was going to be an actress, singer, dancer, lawyer. That's amazing. I was like, if I don't, you know, work in performing arts,
00:34:18
I was like, I'm going to actually finish college and go to law school. And that is 100% not what happened.
00:34:25
I've dropped in for a million classes, and I can probably fake it really well. But, yeah, she's no lawyer, but she can write pretty well.
00:34:35
There's a lot. There's, like, so many. there's too many lawyers right now from what I understand in this country.
00:34:40
Oh, really? Yeah, I think you dodged a bullet, girl. I think, yeah, I think so. I've been talking to a lot of people because this is a path that I hear a lot of,
00:34:47
specifically women, because I work with women. Like if you have a certain amount of like intelligence
00:34:53
and you're in a place in your life where like you're not necessarily sure where you want to go, I think law school is like sort of an obvious option.
00:35:00
There's so much information. Yeah, just like, well, there's a lot to do with it.
00:35:04
I can continue this. And you can use it for so many things. So I know a lot of women that are similar to us that like almost went down that path or were very close to going down that path.
00:35:13
We've spoken. I took the fucking LSAT three times. Bitch thought she was going to law school.
00:35:17
I know. It's like that for me when you told me that, I was like, see. You're like, that makes sense.
00:35:23
There's so much sense. It makes so much sense. But I say that because I don't think I'm happy that it wasn't the path that you took.
00:35:31
Do you know? I'm happy that it wasn't the path that ended up for you. honestly because I hear you say that you're on is so meant for you yes I think so too yeah
00:35:39
yeah I mean it's hard um I think when you come from you know parents that are born I mean like
00:35:53
my mom is technically you know was born a citizen but um because it still like a territory and not like mainland you know there is that immigrant mentality that forever etched in her mind And my father mind
00:36:06
being born out of the country, born and raised because my dad didn't come to the States till he
00:36:11
was 30. Yeah. And, you know, obviously in wanting to make them proud, it's like be famous, which is
00:36:21
the hood mentality thing. Yeah. I think any person of color that's come from the hood and like has a
00:36:26
little bit of skill doing anything, whether it be singing or dancing or acting or drawing, or you're
00:36:31
like, be famous because this is like, you know, you think it's like this quick pipeline to money
00:36:36
where you can save everybody and buy everybody a house. Right. But in reality, what you end up
00:36:43
doing, I mean, sometimes, yes, they win and they become famous and they love it and it's great and
00:36:48
whatever. But a lot of times it's, you know, you're like, you just want to do something that
00:36:54
makes them proud and every sacrifice that they've made worth it to some degree. And so while I am
00:37:02
extremely proud of what I've done, I think that there's always going to be a little bit of a chip
00:37:07
on my shoulder because I was a little bit like a nerd that I didn't do something more like socially
00:37:15
impactful like yeah where I love my job and the thing is like when you go through a global pandemic
00:37:21
you realize like you just play with curls and lipstick like you're literally not saving anybody's
00:37:27
ship and when the chips all fell and we realized like who actually is essential that was where I
00:37:35
was like oh my god I am so not essential even though I think what I do carries value it's that
00:37:43
And what can I do to like, you know, use what I know and marry the scientific part of my brain and the creative part of my brain and do something, you know, do something that I feel will be important without having to touch people.
00:38:04
because, you know, for a long time, like I was legally not allowed. We're not allowed to touch people.
00:38:10
And I've touched people for 20 years. So it's like, you know, one of those things, I mean, over 20 years,
00:38:18
but 20 years, I say that because I've been credited for 20 years. Like I count the year that I was first published as my first year,
00:38:26
but I was doing hair and makeup, you know, easily six years before that. Just like, you know, it was trash.
00:38:32
Like, I mean, a lot of that first five years, ten years was trash. I feel like I just got good ten years ago.
00:38:41
But that's how my brand was born. Natural by Sabs was born out of, like, the need for me to do something that was passive, that, you know, allowed me to utilize the scientific part of what I've learned in this business and through my studies all over the world.
00:39:01
and be able to fill a hole that I thought should be filled in the beauty business
00:39:08
and to be, you know, a true entrepreneur and show, I'm going to get emotional. I'm PMSing, so please do not hold this against me.
00:39:19
Oh, stop, you can show emotions. It's okay. No, I know, but I don't love that. Oh, we love you.
00:39:25
But it was really important for me to show other children of immigrant parents that, you know, even if it isn't, you're not the lawyer, engineer, doctor that a lot of them want.
00:39:37
Yeah. You can do something and be the first to do something. You know, I'm the first in my family to start a brand.
00:39:48
I'm the first. And that I formulated myself, which is insane, you know. and I am super proud of that yeah and in the middle of the pandemic I would call
00:40:02
Sabs and be like what are you doing she's like bitch I'm learning chemistry get off the phone
00:40:05
I can't talk to you right now I'm like all right girl let me know when you're ready I know it's
00:40:09
like fitting I'm like I cannot talk I'm sorry literally like with beakers right now yeah
00:40:15
which is so awesome it's so so awesome yeah was that part of your inspiration for starting this line or what kind of was this something you wanted to do like forever and you
00:40:26
just never had time to but I I never um I honestly thought I would do it like when I was much older
00:40:33
um I was like yeah it's something that I'll toy around with when I'm older and I like have more
00:40:38
of a name um so that people are like oh she did it I'm buying it done you know because just being
00:40:45
a part of this industry and entertainment and beauty I'm very aware of like the bottom line
00:40:51
people love to be told what to do. They especially love to be told what to do by a familiar face.
00:40:58
So Taraji, get a hairline. Taraji's hairline's doing well. Yeah. We don't know Taraji for hair, but we love her hair.
00:41:08
Yes. And we love her looks and we love what she serves. So we're like, we co-sign Taraji.
00:41:12
Totally. You know? And also in an age of like a lot of misinformation, there's like the consumer is very smart right now.
00:41:20
And all they have to do is turn over the bottle and do a Google. And so people want to know who's selling, like who's making this product that I'm buying.
00:41:29
Do I believe them and the ingredients that they're putting in it? Exactly. And so I will use it.
00:41:34
That's more it. And to your point, which I think is really important, which I definitely want to touch on, is how the buyer is smart.
00:41:42
Yes, the buyer is much more educated, like more than any other time before. But I will say that this is a double edged sword because I in my own education formulation education chemistry education a lot of times what you read on the bottle a you don know the percentages b you don know what that product does and we know
00:42:09
these names some of them we know the names to do something different so for example alcohol like in
00:42:16
black hair care we're all like no alcohol i don't want no alcohol ladies yes you do
00:42:22
alcohol is a preservative it is a naturally occurring preservative it is not drying your
00:42:31
product out because you'd have no product yeah it is helping preserve your product so we can use
00:42:36
less garbage in that product so yes you do it can't all be oil yeah it is going to rot yeah
00:42:43
like that's the thing is like you want it natural you want it with crazy results and you want it to
00:42:49
lasts for the four years that it stays in your cabinet with 17 other products yes and i'm sorry
00:42:56
but that's just not the case like for me i was like i like which i do for my line use almost
00:43:02
entirely organic or like organic substitute or acceptably um used products like ingredients
00:43:12
and everything, but I can't, could not afford to get all of my products examined to get this stamp
00:43:20
of like USDA organic. Like people don't realize that. I'm like, it's like you, you want it to be
00:43:26
natural and you want it to be amazing. And it's like, I am using those ingredients, but it doesn't
00:43:30
matter. The point is at the end, and this is where I'm like systemic, like there, there are so many
00:43:36
things to say about why we have what we have as a people, especially as a black people. Like I need
00:43:43
that aunt with money. I need that uncle with money. I don't have that. So basically I used my entire
00:43:51
life savings to create a brand that I'm proud of, but I can't even tell you that all the products
00:43:56
are organic because I can't afford to. Yeah. This is the reality that I live in. And it made me
00:44:02
check myself because I'm like, look at all these products that a, first of all, like we've all used
00:44:07
shit, like we've all used garbage, daily use garbage. Nobody is not using some kind of garbage.
00:44:13
Yes. Whether it be their toothpaste or whatever. Yes. But we're comfortable with that garbage.
00:44:18
But now because like, you know, we're like bloggers who like rip, you know, ingredients to shreds.
00:44:26
And like, Oh, well, this is what this does. And I'm like, queen, are you a formula? Like,
00:44:29
Do you know what percentage that this person is working with? Do you even know hair?
00:44:34
Do you even know hair? And you don't. Besides your own hair. Yes, yes, yes. And you just know what you think looks good.
00:44:41
Everyone in the internet knows fucking everything. It's so irritating. Four girls here and think that you're a hairdresser.
00:44:43
And it's like, no. Yes. We don't get to, like, pick and choose who sits on our chair all the time.
00:44:48
Yes, yes. I have a very diverse chair, which means I've had every race, every religion, every creed.
00:44:56
I have a private studio, so I have many women in hijab come here and get their hair done.
00:45:00
I have Jewish clients who send me their wigs or come in here for their wigs. Like, this is a reality.
00:45:07
I know things about scalps that like people would not want me to share. You know what I mean?
00:45:11
Yeah. So there's just always so much more to the story. And we get very hung up on canceling.
00:45:18
And this is good. And this is bad. And I'm like, different strokes for different folks.
00:45:23
And we need to remember that this is a capitalist country. Yeah. And there is a lot that goes into someone bringing a product to market.
00:45:33
Yeah. Like I'm small people like, oh, are you going to be retailing in a bunch of, no, no guys.
00:45:38
Do I want to get picked up by the targets and Sephora's and et cetera, the big box retailers?
00:45:44
Yes. Someday. Yeah. But it means that I would need the amount of product that this little pocket cannot afford.
00:45:51
Yeah. She cannot afford. I don't believe in going into heavy debt to make this a reality.
00:45:57
Like, I'm in comfortable debt now, you know, and I wasn't before, you know. Well, it's a lot of optics, right?
00:46:03
Oftentimes, it's like the, you know, I remember my cousin, my little cousin came to New York for the first time a couple, like maybe last Christmas, and she's like, oh, girl, you know, looking up at the buildings, don't you want a true beauty up there?
00:46:14
I said, bitch, no. I want my overhead to be as low as possible. Like, when I first started, yes, I wanted all these big things.
00:46:21
I want, you know, the glass, all this shit to show, bitch, I want to make money.
00:46:24
I don't care what the optics are. And it's exactly. Yes. And a lot of what a lot of people don't know is that when you sell to big retailers like
00:46:32
that, the margin is terrible, which means what you make on each item is so low that
00:46:39
basically all it is, is broad advertising. Yes. It is the way that you put into a business plan here.
00:46:48
give me more money because these people want my product. That's all it is. Like it takes so long
00:46:55
for you to actually go green from the red and like natural isn't anywhere near there,
00:47:02
but I am so incredibly proud of what's inside these products. So I'm not in a rush. I'm not in
00:47:08
a rush to bring more products to market. Everybody's asking me about styling, styling, styling. I'm like,
00:47:13
here's the thing as a hairstylist and a, you know, cosmetologist of many years, what I think is
00:47:22
the most important thing. And every stylist that has sat behind a chair in a salon will agree with
00:47:28
me is it starts with your shampoo and conditioning ritual. That's where it starts. Healthy hair is
00:47:36
not something I can give you. Healthy hair is a practice between you, the products you choose to
00:47:43
put in your hair, the things you put in your mouth and you drink and you smoke, et cetera.
00:47:48
And then the like treatments that you apply to said hair. Like it's not a one step process and it really, the, the great responsibility relies
00:48:00
in the user, in the consumer. And I know it's like, everybody wants me to be like, yes,
00:48:05
my product is going to save you. And it may bandaid the situation because they are incredible
00:48:11
products. But if you have terrible, like shampoo and conditioning, basically, if you have poor
00:48:19
habits, which means you don't shampoo enough, you, you know, shampoo too much, you under condition,
00:48:24
you over condition you eat poorly you party every week every weekend every night however
00:48:32
like no judgment but don't expect to have healthy anything and a product I'm like I've done it all the ways guys I've done the leg work for you
00:48:43
bottom line this is how it is it's true yes I don't have easy hair I've never had easy hair
00:48:50
Good product makes me feel better about life, but it never will solve the fact that I have not easy hair to maintain.
00:48:59
Curly hair is it is high maintenance. We don't live in the bush and we don't live in a society where our hair can just be what it is.
00:49:06
Like we have to whip it into submission because this is what we've been conditioned to do.
00:49:11
And so that's why she got locks on her head. I'm like, I'm done subscribing to these like Western ideals of beauty.
00:49:20
I love these locks. I don't like I have my model today asked me if my hair is real.
00:49:26
And I'm like, why is it relevant? I just put all this fake shit on your face. Yeah.
00:49:31
Yeah. Is your face real? But you know what I mean? This is something that as a black woman, especially and as a woman in general, in beauty, you constantly have to come come up against.
00:49:43
And it's like she didn't mean anything by it. She's not American. Yeah. Like, you know, she her English is not great.
00:49:50
But, you know, she just was curious. She was curious. And, you know, it wasn't my time to teach her a lesson in life.
00:50:00
You know, I'm like, you wouldn't want anybody to ask you what you are. Or you wouldn't want anybody to ask you, like, if your hair is fake.
00:50:08
I could never imagine asking somebody, like, a stranger. Because you're black. Because you're black.
00:50:13
It doesn't occur to us because we're not in the position to ask stupid questions like that.
00:50:18
I'm sorry. And I'm sorry, like listeners, I love you and I appreciate you being curious, but that's what fucking Google is for.
00:50:26
Do not disrespect any black or brown woman. If you don't fucking know, look it up.
00:50:31
Don't ask her. She's not here to teach you about her hair. Also, why can't people just say, I love your hair?
00:50:37
Thank you. Why does it have to be like. That's what she said after. I love your hair.
00:50:40
Why did you need to know if it was real? Yeah. Wait, real quick. I had a client the other day who was black and she was saying how she's like, I really have been loving, like,
00:50:48
experimenting with different wigs and she's like i do it myself so it doesn't look good you could
00:50:51
see the lace or whatever and she was and i was like and i was like oh yeah i'm like but i didn't
00:50:57
notice that she's like you didn't notice i'm like i don't know i'm white and maybe that's
00:51:01
because i don't wear wigs something i would notice yeah yeah and she was dying and i'm like
00:51:06
i know but like it's no because her girlfriends probably drag her ass like black women we will drag each other to filth like and it's also that is also conditioning is we don't
00:51:17
let each other shine we don't let each other shine that's also part of it and so we make it a joke
00:51:23
like obviously like we do it to each other i love you to death you like my sister that's like the
00:51:26
opposite you're also her hair girl so it's like first of all wait i just have to say something
00:51:31
sabs you're not not letting me shine by telling me no no no no and you're letting me shine
00:51:36
it's the opposite you're like girl but why are you doing that to yourself friends how we like
00:51:43
drag each other and we're like a on one side we we always want the best like you know we expect the
00:51:49
best from the people that are around us yes the people that we care for but then b like it is also
00:51:55
a traumatic conditioning that we have encountered as black women that we we are always the butt of a
00:52:02
joke therefore we can't just like let us just the rock of her laces like slipping like if her lace
00:52:08
is peeling up like you have to be the one to like lay it on her and it's like why like granted yes
00:52:15
I want you to tell me if my laces no I know what you mean no I know exactly what you mean because
00:52:20
it always comes down to like it's one of the first things that you and I spoke about when we were
00:52:23
talking one of our first conversations Alex and I had I was talking to her about like a hair wrap
00:52:27
and she was like what's a hair wrap I was like you've seen women walking around with their hair
00:52:32
wrapped you probably just thought that it was a hairstyle you didn't know what they're doing but
00:52:35
Like if my mama saw me walking around with my hair wrapped, she would whoop my ass.
00:52:38
And she's like, why? And I said, well, because she'd say, what would white people think?
00:52:41
And Alex was like, but why? Like, just it didn't click. And then I thought, well, you're right.
00:52:47
Like in in saying this out loud, it doesn't make sense. But it's conditioning in that, like, we have to present ourselves.
00:52:53
And you even said that you're like, what? So you can actually be taken seriously.
00:52:56
Like as a human, it doesn't make any sense. Yeah. Like, yes. But that is what it is.
00:53:00
You know, when you say it out loud like that, it sounds ridiculous. but it isn't because this is the society that we live in, you know?
00:53:07
Exactly. Yeah. And we're just all trying to like stay alive in it. And it's not true.
00:53:13
Basically to me, it's really, I think it's super important, you know, to remind, I don't know.
00:53:21
I just love to have these conversations and call it what it is like, you know, the joking and like all that stuff like that we do because it is still a source of pain for a lot
00:53:34
of women there are still many women that wake up every day and I'm sure there are men too but I'm
00:53:39
more care about the women because I'm sorry like we're we're really at the bottom bottom of of it
00:53:45
all um that you know wake up and they hate their hair and they look and hair and and this is sort of like what you know when I realized like wow I like fully in love with this thing Hair is a way for us to like describe each other
00:54:08
It's one of the, if not the first thing that anyone notices about you is your hair.
00:54:15
Like you can, for example, I was watching it like, it was like a docu-series or whatever.
00:54:23
And it was one of those crime shows, crime shows, crime shows. But it was basically about how, like, you know, in the lineup, I forget what they're called, the ones that draw the, like, when you're doing.
00:54:40
The police sketches? Yeah, the police sketch. They have a name. I don't know if it's like, Kudok.
00:54:45
Oh, yeah. I know what you're talking about. I don't want to say wrong. Don't be interested.
00:54:50
I know. this guy they were interviewing was saying hair is one of the like best sort of
00:55:02
usually one of the most accurate things that people describe because it's the thing that
00:55:07
leaves the longest impression interesting that's so exactly but still think about my hair more
00:55:13
if you were sending an uber if you were sending an uber for me and you're like yeah but it's not
00:55:18
me. It's a girl and she, what is one of the first things you're going to say? You'd say her hair
00:55:23
color at least. Exactly. Yeah. A brunette. And so, um, I saw another, um, like in my many,
00:55:34
many years of like nerding out on like why we think what we think. Um, but like the whole like
00:55:40
interview thing and interview culture and, you know, uh, and I think I told you guys about this
00:55:46
before where it was like two women same exact credentials look really similar they had these
00:55:52
two and it was like a sort of focus focus group situation same like same exact credentials
00:55:59
the only difference was how they like each um each wore their hair so um one woman like they
00:56:09
both had curly hair but could be straightened so you know same interview like went on the interview
00:56:16
with curly hair and vice versa. So like two different employers. Right, right, right.
00:56:22
One went with curly hair, one went with straight hair. Each time, the straight hair person won.
00:56:29
Each time. When the girl wore her hair straight, she got the job. Yeah. Does it matter what her ethnicity was?
00:56:37
No. Huh. Interesting. No. Why? Curly hair is perceived. Like wild? You know, it was, right.
00:56:49
Right. Wild, unkempt, free, not serious. Right. I was thinking wild in like a good way, but I guess they're obviously looking at it like
00:56:58
Right. That's what I think. But a lot of times when people say wild, they do not mean it in a positive way.
00:57:03
Well, it's because we're a three. For certain corporate America. Yes, certainly.
00:57:06
Because it's conformity, right? It's that curly isn't the norm. It's the, it's not the majority, I should say.
00:57:12
It's not that it's not the norm. There's plenty of curly hair, though. So that's like, yes, I don't know what the actual statistics are.
00:57:17
Okay. Well, I think at least we're like, wait, well, in terms of like the, the white beauty standard,
00:57:23
curly is not the norm. Curly ain't it. That's why I was literally using a clothing iron to straighten my hair when I was 12 years
00:57:32
old. Yeah. Right. Because I have that weird wavy frizzy hair. We burn, we put chemicals in our hair from the time that we're five years old to straighten
00:57:42
it to burn your scalp. Like how many chemical burns have you fucking had? Irreparable damage.
00:57:48
It's insane. It's insane. Yeah. You're absolutely right. And I'm only, we live in Brooklyn, so it's easy to forget these things because we live
00:57:57
in a place where uniqueness is celebrated and you're rewarded for being unique and for
00:58:03
being different. I think. A hundred percent. I think that we would all agree, right?
00:58:06
It's like probably one of the few places in the world. That's why we all are here.
00:58:09
Right? Well, yeah. And like, she's a, she's a magical multicultural bubble. Yeah, exactly.
00:58:14
Right. But it's, you're absolutely right is it's not the norm. It's so far from the norm that it shocks me, which it means New York is doing its job,
00:58:23
I think. But it's really, um, I told you again, like my young cousin, when she's came to New York
00:58:30
and she said, you know, Elizabeth, I love your hair, but my mom would say that it was
00:58:33
ghetto. And it's like, well, it breaks my heart, you know? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, when I told my parents I was locking my hair, the response was, and I knew it wasn't
00:58:44
going to be a good response. Because if I ever wore braids, they'd be like, why are you doing that?
00:58:49
They were like, why? You have good hair. It's see-through. And I was like, that's why.
00:58:58
Tell the people, I don't want to sound mean. You're the one who said that to me.
00:59:02
And it's the funniest thing I ever heard in my life. She's like, yes, I can grow my hair long.
00:59:08
and for that I have quote unquote good hair, but it's see-through. She said that shit ain't thick.
00:59:12
Exactly. It ain't lupches. Yes. So to give context to what she's talking about, you know, I was telling her, you know, exactly
00:59:20
that about like how like, oh, but your hair can grow. It can grow long. I'm like, so my hair is so fine that when it's long, it is literally see-through.
00:59:30
There's a, it will continue to grow. Yes. I have hair that will. I can imagine you having fine hair.
00:59:34
Oh, it's so fine. It's, I'll, I'll show you. I'll show you a picture. Yeah. Um, it's so fine.
00:59:40
And so basically like the wind, if there's even, I know what it's like, there's a little
00:59:45
bit of wind, but you have more than me. So you have more of it. So I find here and I don't have a lot of hair.
00:59:52
So it was like twofold and I like cool Yeah I can see So you want to just see right through it You want to be that old hippie lady with her hair that like you know like sweeping the floor but it like frizzy and like
01:00:06
literally can you can see right through it like it's a like it's like she just got the joke
01:00:10
curtains yeah yeah there's nothing cute about that and she showed me a picture it really is
01:00:16
because it's on her back but it's used to me yes i'm gonna yes i'm gonna send it to you it is
01:00:22
not yeah it's not good and when I explain it when I had it and I'd show people like look at
01:00:31
this white towel and look at does that look like beautiful hair to you yeah but I get it some like everybody has um and and I know that there are going to be people like
01:00:44
that that hear this and they're like what there is a point where everyone's hair stops growing
01:00:51
There are some people that have hair that will grow till, you know, longer than their height.
01:00:56
It's not that common. But it's much more common, especially in curly and like curly textured hair.
01:01:05
And same, I mean, really, it's everybody. Like everybody has a length that their hair grows to.
01:01:11
And depending on your height, it looks longer, shorter, whatever. but there are a lot of coiled textures that won't grow long it will never be long it was not meant
01:01:23
to be long it was meant to grow up and out and because of our western styling like ideals and
01:01:31
like the way that we you know we picture beauty like what we perceive to be beautiful based on
01:01:39
this westernized conditioning um you know they're like oh you know my hair is not beautiful because
01:01:46
it's not long and it's like not all hair is supposed to be long y'all but you can have long
01:01:52
hair if you make it a point with sabrina rose i will weave your dreams but this is like you know
01:02:03
That's why I really got like deep into extensions because I'm like, guys, it's, it is a fact.
01:02:09
Like you're not going to have some people, yes, are born with the hair that they want.
01:02:14
But like, mostly we're all like looking at over the fence. Like the grass is greener over there.
01:02:17
Yeah. I have a texture that I know, like, you know, my, my sister loved. And like, I have so many friends that were like, girl, I wish I had your hair.
01:02:26
But then at the same time, like, I wish I had your hair, your hair stronger than mine.
01:02:30
when you have the hair and you deal with like I understand the benefits to them like just like
01:02:37
you know being able to like use edge control and it doesn't matter if it's good or not like and my
01:02:41
edges will stay yes yes that's a benefit but at the same time it's like I want thick cornrows
01:02:47
I will never have thick cornrows like it will never I will never straight cornrow my hair because
01:02:55
it is just so much space. I feel sick. And that's when people realize how little hair I actually have.
01:03:04
I did it once. I did it once as an adult and I don't even know if there are pictures
01:03:10
but I wanted to see, oh well maybe I do have more density or whatever. No, child, no.
01:03:18
That's like if someone tried to French braid my hair. You could swim between the cornrows.
01:03:24
No, no. It was so tragic. So I used that braid down to put throat weaving. This is trash.
01:03:34
That worked. But, you know, I think it's important. The reason I love to talk to you, Sav, about hair and everything is because, I don't know, it's this thing that we all have.
01:03:42
And it's like very few people are lucky enough to just have hair that, like, just it does what you want it to do.
01:03:50
It just works. Right. Like very, very few of us, especially if we are a person of color.
01:03:55
Yeah. You need to know the secrets. Somebody's got to tell you because you're looking at these people like, how the fuck
01:04:00
are they doing it? I walked around for years just like, how are you doing it? And she told me all the damn secrets.
01:04:07
I never got a real braid lesson. Like when I started braiding, like my friend Lavise taught me how to braid purely because
01:04:15
I was like getting bullied so bad. And I loved seeing her braid her own hair. I'm like, this bitch can like, she's sitting here and she's like, this is amazing.
01:04:26
I'm like, girl, can you show me or whatever? And she did. And I'm sure. And it's so funny because now we're connected again on Facebook.
01:04:33
And I feel like I should send her a message like, girl, you realize that you taught me
01:04:37
how to break. I think she realized that she taught me how to break and how much that did for me.
01:04:44
Did you say that to her? No, I haven't. Because I literally just got back on Facebook for the brand.
01:04:50
wait but while we're talking about that can you tell us about the line and the products that you
01:05:08
have yeah i mean there's tons but um basically i mean i love them all but i i'm biased obviously
01:05:16
Yeah, the products are broken up into two, like in my mind, not on the website. They're like, I'm going to go to your website.
01:05:25
Like, no, they are not between the liquids and the solids. So I have liquid products that include there are four of them.
01:05:34
There's a hair oil called the nourishing rose oil. Then there's my nourishing shampoo, the nourishing conditioner, which is the conditioner.
01:05:43
You highlight your hair. You need all the nourishing products. Yes you do I agree It was really about color Those products were about curls and color I was like how can I solve a major issue Because I knew I didn want a crazy long range and certainly not to launch with I did launch with more products than I thought I would but the stars were aligning
01:06:08
I was so happy with the formulas. And I was like, look, I have too many kinds of clients to be like, I have four products
01:06:15
and none of them are for you. Yes. I got to keep going. Got to keep going. And so I have the soothing scalp shampoo.
01:06:22
um and so those are the four so I did those four products because I knew that if anyone was going
01:06:29
to take me seriously they needed to be able to consume a product in the way that they know
01:06:34
which is in a liquid form yeah the packaging is beautiful it's matte black I really spent a
01:06:41
fortune on that I love the product the packaging it's really beautiful yes it's very chic
01:06:46
PET, like so highly recyclable plastic. There is a huge plastic shortage right now because of COVID, because of our relations with China.
01:06:56
Thanks, 45. And so, you know, it is very expensive because the bottles, just the bottles are so expensive.
01:07:09
And the labels are really beautiful. And those are expensive as well because I wanted them to last in the shower.
01:07:16
And then I wanted you to be able to take them off. So you didn't chuck your bottle. You saved your bottle. So at the heart of like me wanting to do a line, which to return to your earlier question, yes, I always wanted to do a line.
01:07:33
um I did think I was going to do it a lot older um I'm turning 40 I was like I want to start this
01:07:40
conversation when I'm 50 um because I figured at that point I'll be much more like known which is
01:07:47
so ridiculous um and you know I'll I'll have slowed down I won't travel as much so that I can
01:07:54
focus on focus all my energies on you know formulating a beautiful line and have some money
01:08:00
to boot but then obviously everything like shook up and then I was like okay girl the universe is
01:08:06
asking you basically how natural was born was these like I was already taking formulation class
01:08:13
because I was like you know what like I love the science anyway so let me just like learn as much
01:08:21
as I possibly can exactly and then you know I can tinker for a couple of years and then you know
01:08:27
figure it out. But then I was having these virtual consults for all of my clients that I couldn't see.
01:08:34
And it's interesting because like when, you know, the beginning of COVID and we went on
01:08:39
serious lockdown, I had, it was like all these clients that I hadn't even seen in a long time
01:08:45
reached out to me. And we're like, you know, they live in different cities now and they're like,
01:08:48
well, it's virtual. I want to see Sabrina. And it was so like, when I tell you, I mean,
01:08:56
lit me up like I didn't even realize I'm like y'all still think about me like you don't even live
01:09:00
here like I love how hair and makeup has allowed me to touch so many people's lives and that in
01:09:08
some ways that I've remained memorable to them by doing something silly like hair and makeup um
01:09:15
but anyway people remember the way that you make them feel yeah do you know well yes yes and you
01:09:21
That's my favorite thing. You get to give people, like, the ultimate girl. You make people feel like the shit.
01:09:26
Like, that's your job. It's to make me feel beautiful. When you did my hair, I felt like a fucking supermodel.
01:09:30
Yes. So, of course, people. I was, like, doing shit, like. Yes. Walking down the street.
01:09:35
And you need to know who the fuck was that girl. For sure. Like, how can I feel like this all the time?
01:09:40
Who is that girl that made me feel like this? I love that. Honestly, like, yes. Well, so.
01:09:44
Which is why they will test you on your product. Thank you. Well, I was having these consults, and I'm like, okay, you can get this, this, this,
01:09:51
and that. And then you can mix this and do this and blah, blah, blah. And they're like, girl,
01:09:54
just tell me what to buy. Yes. I'm not going to mix anything. Just tell me what to buy. Tell me
01:09:59
what to buy. And it just kept going like that. Like I'd give them all these instructions and
01:10:03
how to do like an apple cider vinegar rinse on your hair to like, just get everything out,
01:10:07
clean your scalp. If they're suffering from dandruff or like psoriasis or anything like that.
01:10:12
I'm like, okay, use this product. And I realized I'm like, girl, all you're doing. So, you know,
01:10:18
I've charged obviously for these consultations, but then it's like, now I've given you a way to
01:10:27
where to buy your color, where to buy these products and you're gone. You're gone. So I was
01:10:34
just putting money back into the pockets of people that already have plenty of money. Yeah. And I'm
01:10:41
like, sorry, I ain't got no generational wealth. So then I was like, okay, I like looked at my
01:10:46
coins. I talked to Joe. I'm like, Joe, am I crazy? Should I do this? And he was like,
01:10:54
if you're crazy, sign me up. I believe. Yeah. Um, so then it was like full steam ahead.
01:11:03
Um, and so, uh, to return to where I was, was the liquid products were for, it was important for me to do that because I really didn't want to,
01:11:16
but it was important for me to do that so that people would trust the integrity of the product.
01:11:22
And like me not push them too far with the shampoo bars, conditioner bars, lotion bars,
01:11:29
like my sustainable, like lower your carbon imprint life. So then, and which was the most
01:11:39
important thing to me because I am, um, you know, a black woman with dreadlocks and I love doing
01:11:45
protective styles on my clients and myself. Um, I was, I have been using shampoo bars for the last
01:11:53
few years. Um, and I knew I'm like, I, I, want an entire line of bars. I like really just wanted it to be a collection that was zero waste.
01:12:06
That was like the dream. But I know the consumer and the consumer is like, bitch, what's a bar?
01:12:14
Yo, sorry. I gave Kevin a bar and he goes, yo, I got my soap on a rope. I was like, shut up.
01:12:19
I love it. I love it. But so first I, you know, I did the liquid so that, you know, people would trust me.
01:12:31
And the bars, the thing about the collection is that there is this beautiful, sustainable, clean sort of aspect to it.
01:12:44
Thus natural by Sabs. And natural doesn't mean that the products are all natural.
01:12:48
Like, because there are obviously preservatives in the liquids, like that's just impossible not to use some things that keep it alive.
01:12:59
But I went as far as I possibly could in using natural ingredients. And truly, the natural is about bringing out what's beautifully natural about your hair, whether that be colored hair, your weave, your braids, your fro.
01:13:22
I love hair, and I think it's all good. I'm not I do not subscribe to you got that good hair I don't subscribe to that because it is a
01:13:34
horrible way to think about human beings I just don't think it's right yeah even like frizzy hair
01:13:42
why are we so afraid that word it is so frustrating as someone who is highly educated in
01:13:49
hair and hair's chemistry that we consider these things that naturally occur error yeah oh when it's
01:13:57
There's a way for the hair to take the brunt of the natural elements. Wow. Coiled hair had a purpose.
01:14:05
Yeah. It protected us from insects, sunburn, you know, dirt, debris. Yeah. There was a purpose behind this hair.
01:14:14
Mm-hmm. You know, like, you know, for example, like the Vikings, like, you know, that hair grew incredibly long because it worked to keep them warm.
01:14:26
like it's not it's all for a reason and we've come so far away from that like evolutionary past
01:14:33
that we you know it's pretty good bad and it's like nah dog it's just hair yeah like so when you
01:14:40
sit in my chair the first thing you know everybody's apologizing everybody's always
01:14:44
apologizing for their skin for their hair I didn't wash it I washed it too much is it too clean is it
01:14:51
too dirty, all this shit. Like you come into my chair and welcome home. That's number one. Welcome
01:14:57
home. This isn't a place for you to be judged. It's for me to tell you the truth and for you to
01:15:03
leave feeling good about yourself. You're perfect the way that you are. I just, I want my products
01:15:09
and I want my services to only heighten that in whatever way you want, which is why natural by
01:15:18
I focused on cleansing products first, cleansing and conditioning, because I think that that's paramount. And we don't focus on the most important step. Yeah. If you have really good shampoo and conditioning practice, typically your need for products is much, much lower. And I'm not saying for it to do something that it wouldn't naturally do.
01:15:45
because that's crazy there's no magic in the bottle there's no magic so yes if you want your
01:15:52
hair to do something that wouldn't naturally do you're going to always need products yes like if
01:15:57
you want it to be curly with a wand and you don't expect it like and you want it to stay in your hair
01:16:02
straight without product like you're tripping that's not going to happen without product my
01:16:08
hair literally you put a curl in my hair and like yeah it's gonna fall magic in a bottle dude that's
01:16:14
like that was so that was like all right magic in a bottle hit me in a way i had to like let you
01:16:20
keep going because that's what they have sold us our lives and you know i know girl you and i are
01:16:26
two little yes we're two little brown girls you know i search for fucking magic in a bottle every
01:16:30
bottle that i bought every single bottle that i bought yes i was like there was here's 5.99
01:16:36
that like that's gonna get me to whatever it is right like I want it to be like the perfection
01:16:42
do you know what I mean it's like I don't even know what dude it's so yeah hair dude it's so
01:16:48
crazy it's so crazy it's like yeah I mean the lies the lies the lies yes that's sort of again
01:16:56
like going going back to the the line is that was part of like the most important thing to me is like
01:17:03
for this thing to not get too big before, like too big for its britches. Like, I'm glad that the
01:17:08
product has been well received thus far. I am not at a stage that I'm ready to grow
01:17:13
much more this year. We are still very much in a global pandemic. Yeah. You know, there's a
01:17:19
vaccination. I got my first shot. Y'all got your first shot. But like, we're still very much in it.
01:17:25
And I am not working as much as I would normally be working. Therefore, I don't have as much money
01:17:31
to put into the line. This is self-funded and no, I don't want your money because I don't want
01:17:36
anybody's like, uh, accountability. Yeah. I don't want to pay back anybody. Yeah, exactly. I don't
01:17:42
want to answer to anyone. I don't want any of that. So the bars for me was like my like dream.
01:17:50
That the dream The dream product is to make shampoo and conditioner bars cool I just want I love that People to know that you can like use a product that you know we all like oh less ingredients more natural
01:18:08
I'm like, well, guess what, guys? Bars is exactly that. Yeah. Because of the saponification process, a shampoo bar self-preserves.
01:18:18
preserves that like you know we we have to say that there's a shelf life but realistically there
01:18:24
is no shelf life because it's so yeah so the shelf life means like for you know on my bars
01:18:33
I have a two-year shelf life two years which they're gonna last way longer than that but we
01:18:38
say two years because I want you to know that in two years you can't expect it to smell like lavender
01:18:43
right right as strong as it did when you bought it that's just not realistic right not but but
01:18:49
that's still gonna work but the soap is still gonna work yeah that's the thing cool like you're not
01:18:54
gonna get the smell but you will get the benefits but you know it's still not what you bought it for
01:18:59
so you know I I just with the line because I have so much control over everything I like my FAQs
01:19:09
are I and I'm constantly adding to it I'm like somebody asks me a good question I'm like I'm
01:19:14
putting it up on the FAQs I care so much about telling the truth I care so so so much about
01:19:23
being transparent because I don't want anyone to have that feeling of like oh this is gonna solve
01:19:31
this this problem that I have and it's like there is no easy solve yeah in a lot of these issues
01:19:38
It's like you needing to accept the texture that you were born with. Right. There might not even be a problem.
01:19:45
It might be like a perceived problem. Oh, my God. So many times. I've had girls come to me like my hair.
01:19:49
It's too. Oh, this is the best one, which coming from like you and me, Alex, with our fine ass hair.
01:19:56
It's too big. I'm like, bitch. No such thing. But when you have a lot of hair. Yeah.
01:20:04
They're like, yeah, like I'm tired. shampooing my hair is work i have to say at least having fine hair it dries fast i don't blow dry it
01:20:14
it just dries in the air well now i have dreadlocks and i'm like lord it takes i'm like this is what
01:20:21
y'all been going through it's takes forever forever to dry it takes so long yeah and like
01:20:26
obviously a little grateful they they exactly they dry the longest but it does it i love that i'm i've
01:20:34
been on two sides of the coin where I'm like no hair and now my hair is heavy yeah I also you must
01:20:41
use a lot of product when you really thick hair yeah but here's the thing is you don't need to
01:20:46
because they'll scalp work right that's what I've learned from Sav's it's all scalp work
01:20:50
it's all scalp work especially shampoo like let me like if I can leave the listener with
01:20:57
any like gems, like, you know, is stop over shampooing. Guys, you don't need that much,
01:21:06
especially even if it's sulfate free, which all of my formulas are, it will still lather. You don't need foam. Basically foam doesn't mean it's clean.
01:21:19
What it means a lot of the time is it's going to be super dry. Yeah. Yeah. But that again,
01:21:25
that's not mutually like, you know, it's, that's not always the case. Yes. I, I think it's so
01:21:32
important for you to take your time and granted, not when you're in a rush and not when you're a
01:21:37
mom of three, like, girl, I know you ain't got no time for this. You ain't got no time for me.
01:21:44
But there is a way for you to get what you want out of your products. You just have to figure out
01:21:50
what the like you know what the product is how you're going to utilize it because a lot of the
01:21:58
time water is the enemy and i i want to be very clear about what i mean by that water when you're
01:22:06
shampooing and conditioning uh going back to the straw analogy if your hair is a straw when your
01:22:13
straw, like your hair is filled with water, product cannot get in. So you need to wring
01:22:23
the water out of your hair, step away from the shower, step away from the water and wring your
01:22:31
hair out. And I'm, especially if you have thick hair, get away from the water, like get it wet
01:22:37
enough so that like, you know, the product will spread, but get away from the water because the
01:22:43
Water is filling the cuticle with water and not products. So you're shampooing nothing and especially conditioner.
01:22:51
Conditioner is the number one thing that people are like, you know, immediately my friends, like I have friends with really long hair that are, you know, I've been my clients forever.
01:22:59
And they're like, girl, you know, I'm jumbo size. And, you know, like with their, you know, I'm a jumbo size girl.
01:23:05
Like, let me know when you have these jumbo sizes. I'm like, girl, jumbo with my product packaging, et cetera.
01:23:10
I'm like, those are not coming out for you. I'm a jumbo girl God damn You're bad for the environment girl
01:23:20
You don't need as much conditioner as you think you do You don't because you're not even allowing the conditioner
01:23:26
to get absorbed into your hair Wet, shut it off Shampoo, turn it back on You don't have to shut it off
01:23:34
You can leave the water running I don't want you to freeze in there I don't know why I've always done that
01:23:38
For some reason, I came in. Because we were taught in commercials to do that. Oh.
01:23:44
Like, when you're buying $3 shampoo, yeah, bitch, let the water run. Me in there.
01:23:49
Like, that's fine. But if you're buying, like, $26 shampoo, I want you to get your money's worth.
01:23:54
Man, I've come along. I a conditioner I remember when I first lived on my own I mean I could only afford like the swab Do they even still make swab shampoo Of course Of course That an institution
01:24:05
That's an institution. Yes. Unilever, girl. Unilever. But I also wasn't highlighting my hair, so it was whatevs.
01:24:12
But also, I just- I mean, but there's a lot of drugstore stuff. Listen, there's a lot of drugstore stuff that's good.
01:24:18
Yeah. Like, I'm sorry. Like, we can, you know, people are like, oh, just get away from the drugstore.
01:24:23
I'm like, that's not true. That's just not true. It's like we want you to buy something better, meaning more expensive,
01:24:29
so we can put that money in our pockets. But we're going to talk about this on beautiful.
01:24:32
That's perfectly fine if you use it correctly. Because I'm very curious. I've got – yes, go ahead.
01:24:40
No, what were you saying? No, I'm changing the subject. So if you've got something subject – okay.
01:24:44
So something I do want to say is that I've been – I don't know very, very many young people,
01:24:49
but Kevin and I have been watching college hoops lately, like all the college games around right now, right?
01:24:56
Yo, these young girls, they all have braids or locks. They're wearing their hair natural.
01:25:03
Some of these girls are playing basketball in wigs with acrylics and lashes, girl.
01:25:07
I know. I'm like, what? I'm like, go, girl. Go, girl. Like, for me, girls know young how to look good.
01:25:16
But that's not even that girl, but playing basketball, playing full on college basketball in a wig with acrylics and lashes, bitch.
01:25:22
That's very, very impressive. It's so impressive. And what I love is that before sports, like, you know, you weren't allowed to, like, let your femininity shine, you know?
01:25:37
And like, even if it like, you know, basically like the assumption that like, if you're an athlete, you're queer, when like, there is a mix of both.
01:25:48
Yes. And just because you're queer doesn't mean you you don't want acrylics and lashes.
01:25:54
Because I'm here to tell you that I'm extremely queer. And I love all that shit.
01:25:59
Or just because you like basketball doesn't mean you can't like wigs and lashes.
01:26:03
Right. That's what I mean. It's like you can be straight to and play basketball.
01:26:06
period that's what I'm saying yeah yeah we have always had to give up one to have it like it's so
01:26:12
weird like we can't be everything which is just not real yeah it's not real nobody is just one
01:26:18
thing and it's like a girly girl and only likes the bachelor and the bachelorette and no shade I
01:26:23
did watch the black bachelor let's be honest I just finished it yes but like it's like we have
01:26:32
to like we always have to be like fall into a category and i just love that this new generation
01:26:37
is like fuck out of here yes i'm out of here i'm gonna wear my nails and i'm gonna fucking hoop you
01:26:43
yes what's the wig glue also what is the wig glue i know what it is i mean that's what i'm saying
01:26:52
they're sweating it's like yeah i'm very impressed with this state with the state puttedness also
01:26:57
because they don't look crazy at the end everybody's been looking the same going on
01:27:01
they did go they're just like also to be young to be young but I was very like happily surprised
01:27:12
by the amount of natural hair that I saw I was just like alright this generation they
01:27:16
are that's awesome because do you know for a little bit the scope of jobs like they were like
01:27:22
fuck your job description fuck your corporate I'm a disruptor bitch yes Because they make their own jobs, they have their own title, and they're making more money than us.
01:27:34
And I'm like, good for y'all. Because we literally made all this shit up. All of it up, all the credentials up, all of it has been made up.
01:27:43
I have talked so many times, not on our podcast, but amongst other professionals,
01:27:51
about like how unfair the licensing system is in the U.S. and how it is another systematic thing that holds back immigrants and people of color.
01:28:02
Because, you know, people come from, I had a whole class that I taught in Seattle at beauty school
01:28:10
of women that came from East Asia and like Cambodia and Thailand. And they all had already gone through training.
01:28:21
And we're working in hair and working as estheticians and working in beauty and came here and had to get licensed.
01:28:31
And, you know, with no money. And it's like they couldn't even take a test to prove.
01:28:37
Yeah. They already have these skills because America doesn't accept anything. As if you don't have to pay your money.
01:28:44
As if you don't have to. Exactly. You don't have to pay to get your green card. It is so expensive to become an American that people have no idea.
01:28:52
Listen, I know someone who got her waxing license just by paying for it. I know.
01:28:57
Me too. Me too. I know so many white Italians that, like, Europeans that come from the pretty countries that people love that literally bought their licenses.
01:29:12
like and it's so infuriating because i've been to beauty school three times oh my god i've got all the like i was gonna say this has three licenses
01:29:22
i mean that's my own that's my own dumb shit like went to school then like oh i'm going to europe to do the shows and then when i came back my school was closed
01:29:31
you ain't got no hours bitch go back to school the fucking hours talking about the hours it's so true oh my god the hours oh and depending on
01:29:41
where you are in the country, like, you know, California is 1600. Washington is 1600.
01:29:47
No, here is only a thousand. But you don really get the nail care and the facial like you know like sort of the program Exactly And really you only test on hair In Seattle I took my board there and I had to do nails I had to do a facial I had to do
01:30:08
yeah, they ain't playing. But you also don't have the apprenticeship program like they do in New York
01:30:15
where it in what's weird is like they have apprenticeship, but it means for you to get
01:30:21
your license where apprenticeship here means it's your track to get a chair oh so you can get a
01:30:29
license and if you have money which you don't like most you don't you can get a chair at your aunt
01:30:35
salon or whatever but you know if you want to be in a prominent salon here you have to assist
01:30:40
which is essentially your apprenticeship you you learn how to get a license in hair school right
01:30:46
You learn how to pair. Dependorship is kind of what molds you. Yes, yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:30:51
Which is pretty cool. And I apprenticed as a hairstylist, as a makeup artist. And, I mean, I took, I mean, I went to Bumble.
01:31:00
I was educated at Bumble. I went to Madeline Cofano in Paris for balayage. I went to Sassoon Out classes in London.
01:31:13
um you know I've I've I mean and countless classes in between at hair shows and like uh
01:31:20
Cosmoprof and you know like I would I and I mean I still I'm always interested in learning more
01:31:28
because what's cool about hair and makeup is it's ever changing yeah and there's always a new product
01:31:33
and a new way to do something and you know what's like hip and because now we have this like blogging
01:31:40
culture things are moving much more fast yeah you know it's like okay you now it's baby lights
01:31:46
which i'm like guys it's a fucking highlight it's a foil right like we've been doing this forever
01:31:52
all you're doing is much much much skinnier sections yeah i guess it's also just a marketing
01:31:56
ploy of like yeah this new way come get them done well exactly and then come take a class
01:32:01
and yeah hundreds of thousands of dollars which i've been what's the new trend yes and i've been
01:32:07
noticing that also get certified which nobody cares yes yes the same thing in aesthetics the
01:32:11
same thing certifications yeah don't even listen they don't matter yeah should we do a question yeah yeah i love love a listener question okay so i've been noticing
01:32:35
on natural hair Instagram accounts and YouTube channels that there's been a backlash
01:32:39
against shea butter and oils for your hair. Sometimes it's only certain oils like jojoba and black castor
01:32:45
oil, and other times it's just an outright ban on oils. Is this backlash based on facts?
01:32:50
No. Help us out. Oh my god. Jess, I love you, first of all. I love you and you have the best questions.
01:33:01
Jess, do not believe this bullshit hype and these bloggers don't believe vloggers sit the fuck down please stop oils are amazing jojoba is a carrier oil
01:33:17
it is a magical fucking oil and here's why it's your natural fucking oils why would anyone correct
01:33:24
it is the same ph as your hair skin and nails which means that your body can absorb it and
01:33:29
knows exactly what to do with it so sit all the way the fuck down bunch of dummies
01:33:34
it's a carrier oil that i use a lot and i love it oil it's always an oil recommend black castor oil
01:33:43
also amazing should be mixed shouldn't be applied on its own it's quite heavy but it depends on your
01:33:49
hair type if you're 4c you could fuck with black castor oil and be fine but my fucking 3a ass
01:33:55
cannot I cannot you know the thing is like sheba as well is incredible it's an incredible additive
01:34:04
that I also use in my formulations should it be used on its own on your body go for it bitch it's
01:34:10
major on your hair maybe not it just depends on your hair type I really like really really do not
01:34:20
like cancel culture. I think that some people need to be a little more kind and recognize that
01:34:29
these are hardworking individuals that may have more credentials than they do when they start
01:34:34
canceling things. I would like to know whose hair you're doing and how long you've been doing,
01:34:42
you know, said hair while you're canceling a bracket of incredible things that occur in nature
01:34:49
that are great for hair, skin, and nails. But I will say, like, no. There are no bans on any oils.
01:34:59
I think the one that I would say that is constantly recommended as an oil to be used on its own incorrectly is coconut oil.
01:35:10
Yes. The law is, like, and not even the law. It's such a trend for a while. Yes.
01:35:17
Coconut oil is amazing. She is amazing, but it is way too rich. If you can cook with it, it's too rich for your hair on its own.
01:35:28
Good rule of thumb. That's a really good rule. Some people can handle it. Like I said, there are some textures.
01:35:35
There was a model that I worked with for many years. She's from Holland, absolutely gorgeous, white, covered in freckles.
01:35:42
She could use coconut oil all over her skin and never break out. That is a genetic thing.
01:35:47
I have really good skin. If I use coconut oil all over my face, I will break out.
01:35:55
It is too heavy for me. So like I said, I can't even say that it's a crossword. the board that you can't use it but i will say that what i have found over the 20 years that
01:36:07
i've been touching human beings for a living that coconut oil is best used as an additive oil not a
01:36:15
carrier oil not a base oil not something that you use on its own but yes slather that shit all over
01:36:22
your body use it as lube like it's great it's great use it as lube yeah i'm like there you go
01:36:30
she's not gonna hurt your cuddy you want to close this out with a segment you got something for us and i didn't know that you don't
01:36:49
have one I have one um I definitely want to hear yours I I did and I don't know where I put it
01:36:56
um I thought I left a note say I thought of it as we were talking did you read oh good good good
01:37:01
good all right great okay but I'm gonna go okay because it has to do with makeup it's so weird
01:37:06
you guys are like this weirdo it's my favorite so when I first moved to Bushwick to Brooklyn
01:37:12
to Bushwick. I was 19 and I worked front desk at a spa, but I was like, I need to make more money.
01:37:21
And so I was really into, at this point I hadn't decided I was going to go to esthetician school
01:37:26
yet, but I knew that I loved beauty shit. Most young girls do. You're like, make myself prettier.
01:37:34
Done. And I also had actually gone to see a cosmetology school in like Ridgewood.
01:37:39
um I was thinking of doing hair it wasn't something I was passionate about it was just like
01:37:44
but a lot of people aren't and I like beauty stuff you know yeah yeah um anyway when on the
01:37:50
interview I realized like I didn't know what I'd do about the money for it anyway I put that on the
01:37:55
back burner and I was like I know what I'll do I I put an ad on Craigslist being like I
01:38:03
do you need help at the drugstore picking out your cosmetics I can guide you i love this idea i never actually i people did contact me and then my boyfriend at the time was
01:38:16
like i don't think that's a good idea to meet strangers off craigslist and he freaked me out
01:38:21
so i wound up not doing it what was your plan of charging people oh that i would charge them i think
01:38:25
it was like a 25 flat fee um for me to help them pick out like the proper colors because i was so
01:38:31
obsessed i was on this website called makeup alley i love this oh my god makeup alley i knew i
01:38:36
I remember makeup. Yeah. And I feel like I really had gotten a good grasp of just like one of the first like makeup
01:38:43
blogs. Yes. And so I really feel like I knew a good amount about drugstore cosmetics.
01:38:49
Yeah. And I was like, I could help someone. And there are probably so many people don't know what the fuck they're doing.
01:38:53
So anyway, it never worked out. Did you ever see strangers off the Internet? It's never a good idea, even in a public place.
01:39:01
Fair, fair. I mean, OK, clearly I sounded young and naive. I'm sure that ad was weird.
01:39:06
I need to hear the ad first of all I don't think it's a terrible idea I'm not going to lie
01:39:12
I don't know if that's a true story don't meet people people are doing that right now I'm sure
01:39:17
come meet me like some kind of gig I'll meet you at Dwayne Reed and we'll walk together
01:39:23
and I'll help you pick things out isn't that basically what we're doing on the podcast
01:39:26
I mean kind of it's a great idea it seemed like a good idea I think it's a great idea
01:39:32
I mean I think maybe the internet back then wasn't quite the same like there wasn't so much checks and balances
01:39:39
it was craigslist whatever i don't think it was a terrible idea alex i think that you were
01:39:44
onto something i think that was your little entrepreneurial gene honestly i think it was
01:39:48
you know awesome i am mad that i didn't think to do that right because i would do
01:39:54
my life money grab like when i was broke or like i really needed to like you know like help
01:40:00
help someone like get something or like myself or you know whatever like I would do $50 weaves
01:40:08
so basically you come with your hair and your hair already stretched and I will throw it in and
01:40:16
partial's not full because that's like too much like cutting and whatnot but I would do your like
01:40:22
with leave out so basically a weave with leave out which means for Alex um so this is left out
01:40:28
so that they can do whatever part so it like lays nicely got it exactly and it was a a way for me to
01:40:37
practice weaving when I was doing a lot of white hair um and I didn't want to like you know I wanted
01:40:43
to stay strong and it would it was like almost like not uh it was a way for me to like feel like stay connected to black hair Girl I definitely would have answered this fucking Craigslist ad in 2004 Girls that would have never come to me at the salon
01:41:01
like never would have come to me at the salon, got to get their hair done by me for nothing.
01:41:07
That's like what I normally get tipped. That's my norm, like normally what I get tipped.
01:41:12
Yeah. But what a good little side thing. And it helped you. Oh my God, totally. And it was like cash.
01:41:19
And the thing is, I was doing it so often. I got so fast. And I remember, like, I did a weave.
01:41:27
And also, it was like the hair was right. Like, everything collided. But, like, I did a weave in the shortest amount of time than I ever did.
01:41:36
I did a weave in an hour and a half. And I was like, oh, my God, that's amazing.
01:41:40
Yeah, you, like, did it. Like, the whole braid down and sewed all the hair in. And I'm not fast.
01:41:47
Like that's the thing is I'm not fast. Like I know plenty of black hairdressers that are like, bitch,
01:41:53
I could do it in an hour. But that's not me. I've never been like super fast. Cause I'm like, so like, Oh, I'm looking and I'm checking.
01:42:00
And I'm very like a type. And yeah, no, it was so, it was such a great side hustle.
01:42:07
I love it. I love it. Wait, do you have one too? I do. I didn't know them. I do.
01:42:12
I've gotten, I didn't know them, but I'm old. Oh, I know though. I have plenty of those.
01:42:16
we can do whatever do you want one okay you want to throw one out there you give me one and i'll
01:42:20
give you one okay so this is um okay so i'm kind of happy to tell this story because i think that
01:42:28
it's like appropriate for like we're using this episode for the launch of like being on the exactly
01:42:32
right network so yeah you're exactly right you're exactly right so alex and i got um we got an email
01:42:41
like from danielle one of the executive producers in september saying that they want to be on the
01:42:45
show and it was so like, you know, we'd been working towards this goal for a long time,
01:42:51
but like I emailed them back in March. It was just so out of the blue. And this is like, you know, my favorite murder is one of my favorite podcasts.
01:42:58
So it was a little unbelievable, not unbelievable, but yeah, it was a little unbelievable.
01:43:01
Just like, is this really happening? What's going on? And so we set up a phone call to like, just get on the phone with Karen and Georgia and
01:43:11
to like meet everybody. and Alex and I are super excited and we're really nervous.
01:43:16
And so like the day of the phone call comes and it's a Google hang. We get the calendar invitation,
01:43:23
but we're just like, this is so weird. Like, why is this, like, why are we dialing in?
01:43:29
It's like a conference call. Like this doesn't make any sense. Come to find out when you leave.
01:43:33
Stop taking over my story. I know. Alex, let her have her. Because it's so funny that it made me cry when she came to this realization.
01:43:45
First of all, I love that you're trying to blame me for this because you didn't even realize the mistake until I pointed it out to you.
01:43:50
So this is both of our dumbasses. Okay, I only blamed it on you based on our last call.
01:43:55
Okay. So we take this call and we're on the phone with them. And the whole time Alex and I are looking at each other like this is so weird.
01:44:04
Like why aren't we video conferencing? It's very hard to talk to three people on a call.
01:44:08
And we're like, everybody in the world is fucking Zoom. Guys, that's how it always used to be, conference calls.
01:44:11
Exactly. I know. What a weird conference. So we're thinking, okay, we know that they're like Gen Xers.
01:44:16
Maybe they're just like, fuck these hoes. They don't need to see us. Like, we just need to talk on the phone.
01:44:19
Yeah, or they thought that we'd like record it maybe. Or like something. I don't know.
01:44:22
But because of this, the whole time that we're going through this process of signing with them,
01:44:26
because it took so long, I'm starting to talk myself out of it. I'm like, yo, this was an elaborate hoax.
01:44:31
Y'all never saw these bitches. She convinced me it was a hoax. You were just on the phone with them.
01:44:36
For like a very short span of time, she had me convinced that there was a chance that we were being scammed.
01:44:44
That we were being scammed. I really believe this for a little bit. Oh my God, you guys.
01:44:47
Because I was like, if this was today's time, like who doesn't video conference?
01:44:50
Who doesn't Zoom, right? You had me convinced. Yo, so our most recent, listen, listen, hold on a second.
01:44:57
So our most, long story short is obviously we end up signing, everything's fine.
01:45:01
For our first onboarding call, the same thing happens, right? The Google Calendar invitation comes in.
01:45:07
Except we're separate this time. But this time we're separate. And I'm on there with video, and I'm like, stop.
01:45:12
Stop. Long story short is we didn't know that if you just open up Google Hangs, it's automatically on video.
01:45:19
A video. I was like, wait, guys, you realize that you had the option. I don't know.
01:45:25
When she refers to herself as an auntie. Because everybody, we are like the only two people that aren't Zooming this time.
01:45:34
I was so hard not to laugh when we were in that call, because I was like, where's she at?
01:45:38
I'm like, oh, she must have turned her camera on. And then I'm like, no, she doesn't know.
01:45:41
Oh my god I would have died Because you did that being like is this video I have been like hold on because grandma is grandma isn she can get her But when she then realized what happened last time I had tears
01:45:52
Yo, when we got off that phone. We were weirdos. And I realized what the fuck happened,
01:45:56
that they were on the video, and we were the assholes who were calling in on the first call.
01:46:02
That first call, definitely. Two weirdos. They were like, yeah, so I guess podcast is all they can do.
01:46:08
these ladies really don't want to be seen huh why didn't they say anything guys like
01:46:15
I don't want to be on video that's where politely the politeness I could hear like
01:46:23
I could hear in their voices that they're like this is Danielle talking so oh no
01:46:33
sorry I tried talking it's so good It's so funny. Oh, my God. So I didn't know then, but I'm older now.
01:46:42
I guess video conferencing, just figure out how to use it. Just always assume it's probably video.
01:46:46
Just figure out how to use it before you try and jump on. Yes. Yes. 100% practice.
01:46:51
Oh, not surprising. Practice, yes. We've been chatting for almost two hours. I know.
01:46:55
Or an hour and 40 minutes. We do that. I know. How does that happen? I know. Like, we're definitely going to have to edit this down.
01:47:03
Well, the first 30 minutes of Sab's yelling at me about my hair. so we can we can remove that
01:47:09
exactly an hour in 10 minutes or so wait do you have a segment did you want to add something
01:47:13
or should we should we wrap with auntie-isms yeah I think auntie-isms is great let's do it
01:47:21
I have plenty but I can save them for our episode okay save them for episode for a beauty school episode
01:47:25
these were some good I think we had good ones yeah these were good yeah okay so Sabs
01:47:32
tell everybody where they can find you where they can support natural by sabs where they can buy all your products
01:47:39
yes so if you go to www.ntrlbysabs.com you can check out my entire range of shampoo and
01:47:54
conditioning products and my lotion bars my lip balms the hair oil that is so magical that Alex
01:48:02
doesn't look like trash. I love the hair oil. You can use it for everything. I used it on my cuticles last night.
01:48:08
Yeah, exactly. She's a multi-use oil. It's amazing. And you can use the coupon code,
01:48:14
sorry, coupon code, True Beauty Brooklyn for 15% off your first order. Yeah, yeah, guys.
01:48:24
That's awesome. That's awesome. And yes, please follow us on Instagram at natural by sabs.
01:48:29
We'll make sure to post this with the link on our IG. And I just truly appreciate you guys taking the time to talk to me about my little brand.
01:48:41
Yeah. And dude, Zabs is with us once a month. So she's here to listen to all of your listener letters.
01:48:46
Yeah. Right in any beauty questions. Yeah. If you have any beauty questions, we talked mostly about like me, but like, I love answering
01:48:54
your questions regarding hair and makeup and anything silly. Like, you know, you used this product when you were young and you just want to tell us about it.
01:49:03
I love that shit. Yes. We love that too. Oh, yeah, I miss those. So please feel free to email us at truebeautybrooklynpodcast at gmail.com.
01:49:12
That's it. That's it. Or send it to our IG and we will 100% get to it because we will answer all those questions, y'all.
01:49:21
Yes. Yes. Love it. Love it. Love it. Sobs, we love you so much. Thank you. Love you.
01:49:25
Thanks for chatting with us. Love you. and we i mean me and my german arts win oh hey guys hey we hope that you loved that episode with sabs also alex has something that
01:49:52
she'd like to say real quick. Oh my god okay so during the intro I said see ya on the flip side
01:49:59
I've never said that in my life I don't know where it came from I don't know why I said it
01:50:05
it was weird. We're just a little bit nervous I started talking in a British accent you said
01:50:08
see you on the flip side. I feel like that's like a 90s thing. Yeah we both are really nervous
01:50:13
because here we are on the exactly right network and it's exciting it's exciting we're nervous
01:50:18
We are just meeting you guys. You like us. We really want you to like us. Oh, my God.
01:50:24
Well, you might not like me now because you're like, who's this whiny voice? See me on the flip side?
01:50:31
I don't know if that's like a, I have to find out where that came from. I like it, though.
01:50:35
I like that. Why was that in my brain Because that was like 12 you trying to like be cool do you know what i mean and like some like old upperclassmen yeah some upperclassmen somehow was like what
01:50:47
up shapiro and you're like see on the flip side oh my god that's hilarious yeah but i said it when
01:50:58
we listened back to the recording i said it so like she said it great you said super casually
01:51:03
Maybe I should. Keep that in mind. Repetitorum. Things to say. All right. But I just wanted to address that.
01:51:10
Yes. Anyway, I hope you loved that interview with Sabs. Yeah, I thought that was a lot of fun.
01:51:15
Sabs is the sweetest. And she's so funny because, I mean, Sabs is from the Bronx through and through.
01:51:20
And she's definitely hard. But, like, I love to see those soft moments when it's just, like, the three of us.
01:51:25
And she can kind of be herself a little bit more and be super sweet. Just the three of us and all of you.
01:51:30
And all of you guys now. All of our new best friends. Yay. um so anyway guys we okay here's the big ask we need to hear from you we live to talk but more so
01:51:48
is we live to laugh we fucking love to laugh we try to share all of our sort of like cringiest
01:51:54
worst moments um on our glow up from age 12 to today 35 bitch and we want to do it because it's
01:52:04
it just makes everybody seem more normal right and I think that just hilarities overall are great
01:52:10
so send us your milk with your dinner send us your I didn't know them but I'm older now but more
01:52:14
equally as important as important send us your questions please please we are here for you guys
01:52:21
We love skincare. We love beauty. We love sharing all of our secrets. And here's the biggest secret.
01:52:27
Alex and I were talking about this before. The biggest secret in beauty, I think, is that you need somebody who knows more than you to tell you that you're fucking up.
01:52:36
All of our greatest moments, I think, in leveling up has come. First, it was Christine Dow.
01:52:42
Shout out to Christine Dow. 18 years old. She said, bitch, stop tweezing your eyebrows.
01:52:47
Just stop pulling all the hairs out of your face. and the next moment Alex and I realized is when we took you know these photos for the exactly right
01:52:55
network and of course we went to our friend Sabs who did our hair and makeup and her husband's
01:53:00
incredible photographer and we looked at ourselves I mean it's beautiful but we looked like the most
01:53:06
beautiful versions of ourselves and we're like I don't know is this too much bitch it's not too
01:53:10
much our friend Sabrina knew because she works with celebrities she works on set she said you
01:53:16
And it's just an aesthetic. It's an aesthetic that we don't have because we are normies.
01:53:22
And you just need somebody to help you level up. And we want to be that person for you.
01:53:25
I tell you that tangent. I took you down the tangent lane with me. Because we want to be your beauty besties.
01:53:31
And sometimes you need somebody who just, like, knows a little bit more than you do about skincare, about eyebrows, about taking pictures, about your hair, about growing it out, about cutting it off, whatever.
01:53:44
Send us your letters. Send us all of your questions. we're here for you we can't wait to answer them where can they send them alex true beauty brooklyn
01:53:52
podcast at gmail.com email us at the true beauty brooklyn podcast at gmail.com also you can dm us
01:54:02
on instagram at true beauty brooklyn podcast um what else can they do oh my god you guys can rate
01:54:10
review and subscribe you can rate review subscribe rate review subscribe we would
01:54:16
really appreciate it we would love that and you can tell your mama you can tell your cousin you
01:54:20
can tell your friend you can listen to our back catalog which is not exactly right don't judge us
01:54:26
because our audio wasn't great at the beginning it took us a while to figure out microphones
01:54:33
don't judge us but we loved you guys enough it gets better as you can hear but we had so much
01:54:39
to fucking say we were just like let's just talk and we'll figure out the rest later
01:54:43
and bitch here we are and here we are so we love you guys so much write us tell us what you think
01:54:52
tell us about your problems tell us about your man tell us about your lady tell us about all the problems
01:54:56
tell us about everything we'll do our best to help you guys yeah that's it true beauties
01:55:01
we love you guys bye bye see you next time this has been a COC BK production produced by us
01:55:11
Elizabeth Taylor and Alex Shapiro. Our engineer is Bart Tripoli. Our theme music composer is Zebra Sonic.
01:55:17
Our artwork is by Garrett Ross. Our photos, hair, and makeup are by Sabrina and Joe Holdsworth.
01:55:22
If you're an advertiser interested in advertising on our show, go to midroll.com slash ads.
01:55:27
For more information, go to exactlyrightmedia.com.