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00:01:22
Goodbye. Hey guys, welcome to My Favorite Murder. I'm Elizabeth Taylor. I'm the co-host of the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast on the Exactly Right Network.
00:01:31
And today I'm going to be guest hosting for Karen in Georgia. So I'm really excited to share with you my story picks because I've been a huge fan of My Favorite Murder for years and years, sort of since the beginning.
00:01:42
I actually remember the first day that somebody told me about the show. Somebody came into my studio and they were like, oh, do you like podcasts?
00:01:49
There's the show called My Favorite Murder. You'd probably love it. And I was like, My Favorite Murder, this sounds fucking wacky.
00:01:54
wacky. And then I put it on and I just couldn't stop listening. They became like the rest of you
00:01:59
guys. They became my homegirls, my friends, these people who really indulged in this weird thing
00:02:05
that I was also interested in. And it's been such a complete joy and fucking mind blowing to now be
00:02:12
on the network with them. And now to also be guest hosting. I'm just really excited to share with you
00:02:17
guys my favorite murders. So the first story that I'm going to be doing is episode 211,
00:02:38
the Tulsa massacre. And the reason that I picked this is because, you know, growing up as a minority
00:02:44
in America, you spend a lot of time sort of waiting to see yourself reflected accurately in
00:02:49
media. And one of the things I love about podcasting is that it allows for this medium to be created and
00:02:54
consumed by the general public. So everyday people can take back the narratives to stories
00:02:58
and disseminate information further and faster than before. So that's really one of the reasons
00:03:04
that I love my favorite murder. And I think the reason that all of us do is because we speak about
00:03:08
murder and we indulge in this weird, morbid fascination. But we also get to hear the stories
00:03:12
of the victims and we learn their narratives and allow their stories to go on. So the Tulsa Massacre
00:03:18
is one of my favorite stories because it's, you know, one of many that have been told throughout
00:03:23
Black American households for generations. But until recently, it was overlooked in American
00:03:28
history. And true allyship to marginalized communities means going out of your way to
00:03:33
learn the truths of our collective's cultures and then using your voice to amplify those who are not
00:03:38
heard. And Karen said it beautifully. This is our collective American history, the true story of the
00:03:44
Tulsa massacre. So enjoy. This week, I'm going to do the Tulsa race massacre. It's also called the
00:03:51
Black Wall Street massacre of 1921 or the Greenwood massacre. So did you watch Watchmen,
00:03:57
the HBO series? Yes. Okay. So you know how it started? And then there was that one episode
00:04:03
that was entirely dedicated to it. That's a true fucking story. That was crazy. Okay, so this is very cool.
00:04:09
So I remember watching that, and the whole time I was watching it going, please don't let this be real.
00:04:13
And of course it was, and then I read articles about it, whatever. Or at least I read one article about it,
00:04:19
basically confirming like, oh no, this is real. And it made me think of it because at the Wednesday,
00:04:27
after we recorded last week, Akilah Green, who I follow on Twitter, retweeted this amazing article from The Root, which I'll talk about at the end of the episode,
00:04:36
but basically reminded me what an amazing story it is. And it was told in Watchmen so compellingly
00:04:45
and incredibly. And in this way where you're just like, oh, this is this is that what has been
00:04:51
termed black history in this country where basically it doesn't get talked about because
00:04:55
really fucked up shit happened. Yeah. And no one wants to acknowledge it. Yeah. People don't
00:04:59
acknowledge it in it. And when they do so, it gets whitewashed or mishandled. And then cue me
00:05:04
walking in with my papers. Hey. But the cool thing is when a show like that, that's popular
00:05:12
and cool. And then taking notes, Alan Moore taking this historical context and then being like,
00:05:20
hey, here's this character you care about. This is this thing that happened to like her ancestors,
00:05:26
essentially. And now you're in this story. Now you understand that this was a real place in time.
00:05:31
I really did a good job of like showing the fear that you have no matter, you know,
00:05:35
in that situation and how dire and desperate and terrifying it was. Insane. So just to quote the sources, obviously, the original concept was because watching Watchmen
00:05:47
and me going, oh, my God, oh, my God, the work that got done around this and basically kind of
00:05:53
in the retelling There an amazing article So the root article was written by a writer named Jay Connor and a podcaster There was also an article in the Washington Post by a writer named Deneen L Brown And that article
00:06:06
is unbelievable. And it has pictures and it's, it's lots of firsthand accounts. And there's a
00:06:12
city council woman who lives in Tulsa now. And her, she talks about how I believe it was her
00:06:18
grandmother, she said, who she learned about it from her, but they barely talk about it. It was
00:06:23
literally a taboo subject. They just didn't want to discuss it because it was a massacre.
00:06:29
And it's been referred to since historically as a race riot. And when you, classically,
00:06:36
the phrase race riot means black people started it. And that's, that's why it's called a race
00:06:42
massacre and that people want it referred to as that because, because of how the story actually
00:06:48
goes. Yeah. It's just one of those things where wording matters. Yeah. And it's a thing that like,
00:06:53
you don't understand how ignorant you are until you learn how ignorant you are. And then how you
00:06:57
deal with that ignorance is you can either go, no, I'm not. Fuck you. And it's just as sad for me,
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a white person, or you could actually pay attention and read and try and try. Yeah.
00:07:09
Open it up a little. And then do better. Try to clap, clap, clap. Do better. Okay. So there was
00:07:17
There's also a great article in Smithsonian Magazine by a writer named Allison Keys about the 2015 discovery of a firsthand 10 page typewritten.
00:07:27
I should have said firsthand here firsthand account of this massacre by a lawyer in in the Greenwood district named Buck Colbert Franklin.
00:07:37
So he basically saw it all happening, walked outside like and then when it was all over, went home and typed up everything he saw and remembered.
00:07:47
and then folded it up basically and put it away. And that wasn't discovered until like four or five years ago.
00:07:54
Holy shit. And now it's in the Smithsonian. Oh my God. So that's a great article if you want to look that up and see.
00:08:00
And then there's a book by a writer named Scott Ellsworth called Death in a Promised Land about the Greenwood Massacre.
00:08:07
The forward of that book is by a man, a historian named John Hope Franklin, who I believe worked at the Smithsonian.
00:08:14
And he is the son of Buck Colbert Franklin. Wow. Okay. So that's all. If you want to do more reading about this, those are good places. Also,
00:08:23
of course, our friend Wikipedia definitely was there for me. So was there for Jay,
00:08:27
Elias, my researcher and our assistant. Okay. So this starts Monday, May 30th, 1921. It's Memorial
00:08:34
Day in Tulsa, Oklahoma and in the rest of America. So a 19 year old boy named Dick Roland,
00:08:41
who is a shoeshine that works nearby. He goes into the Drexel building at 319 South Main Street,
00:08:49
and he gets into the elevator because he needs to ride up to the top floor because that's the only place where there's a blacks-only restroom in the entire area.
00:08:59
And he is a black man, and so he has to go there. It's the only place he can go.
00:09:03
So this elevator is operated by a 17-year-old white girl named Sarah Page. So they've at the very least seen each other before because she's the only elevator operator and the only elevator in the Drexel building.
00:09:18
And he's clearly had to had to use that restroom at the top of that building before.
00:09:23
So soon after Dick Rowland enters the elevator, a clerk at the Drexel's first floor clothing store, Renberg's, hears a woman scream from the elevator.
00:09:33
So that clerk rushes out to see a black man running from the building. And then he goes into the elevator area to find Sarah Page still in the elevator in what he described as a, quote, distraught state.
00:09:44
So the clerk assumes Sarah's been assaulted and he calls the police. The police arrive. They speak with Sarah. There is no written statement on the record.
00:09:53
It's never taken. None has ever taken. The police begin an investigation. And the exact details of what actually happened in the elevator are still unknown.
00:10:02
But most people believe that Dick either tripped while he was walking into the elevator and fell and grabbed Sarah's arm to steady himself.
00:10:10
Or he stepped on her foot as he walked into the elevator and then grabbed her so she wouldn't fall over.
00:10:17
But there was basically physical contact and it's likely she screamed because she was like startled by it.
00:10:24
So Dick immediately ran, knowing that the worst would be assumed about his actions and his intentions, no matter how innocent the incident actually was.
00:10:34
So Dick goes to his mom's house in the Greenwood district of Tulsa. So this here's a little historical context, all of which was mostly brand new information to me, the person with barely a high school education.
00:10:46
Okay, so when the Civil War ended in 1865, the slaves in Oklahoma are emancipated, and they stay in the area and resettle as free people.
00:10:57
So in the early 1900s, Tulsa experiences this huge boom because there's a discovery of a massive oil supply at Red Fork that's just across the Arkansas River from Tulsa.
00:11:07
And then in 1905, workers strike another oil well that they call Glenpool, and Tulsa becomes one of the most oil-rich areas in America.
00:11:16
Did you know that? No. That there was oil in Oklahoma? Absolutely not. I had no idea.
00:11:22
No, no idea. No. Did not know. There's oil. So more and more people come to the area for work, and the population grows from around the year 1900.
00:11:32
There was almost 1,400 people that lived in Tulsa. and 20 years later, 98,874 people
00:11:40
live in Tulsa. They couldn't get one more for a fucking round number there? Could we just have a round number?
00:11:46
I also like that this is an estimated number and it's the most random number of all time.
00:11:51
But that was when I would normally step in and round it up myself and then you know fuck Wikipedia over once again Okay so Oklahoma becomes a state in 1907 Basically it the whole turn of the century and after this time of amazing growth especially
00:12:10
for the black community in Tulsa. They're thriving. It's a huge accomplishment because this is
00:12:15
post-Civil War Jim Crow South. There's segregation and bigotry as a constant oppressive reality for
00:12:22
all black Americans. And yet the black citizens of Tulsa have figured out how to succeed and
00:12:27
prosper despite like a whole system that's rigged against them. So it was a very big deal. So much
00:12:34
so the reputation of this thriving black community in Tulsa draws the attention of leading black
00:12:39
intellectual and educator of the day, Booker T. Washington. And he takes a trip out to Oklahoma
00:12:44
to see what's going on. What year did you say? 1905. A year later with Booker T. Washington's
00:12:51
guidance, they officially organized this 4,000 acre entirely black owned neighborhood as the
00:12:58
Greenwood district. Wow. There's two newspapers, two movie theaters. One of the movie theaters
00:13:04
is featured in Watchmen. Grocery stores, churches, nightclubs, medical centers, dentist's office, all entirely black owned. Amazing. And for the next 13 years, Greenwood,
00:13:15
the Greenwood district flourishes and its success earns the nickname Black Wall Street.
00:13:20
After World War I ends in 1918, American servicemen returning from the war flock to Tulsa because there's a bunch of work and a bunch of money there because of the oil.
00:13:31
But many of these white veterans are not happy that they have to compete for jobs with educated black citizens.
00:13:38
So this is also the same time black American veterans are coming back to America and they're trying to assert their equal rights.
00:13:46
Right. They just fought for the country. They just fought and watched their fellow soldiers die for their country.
00:13:52
They come back to us. But they have no fucking. They have no rights. They can't vote.
00:13:57
They can't go to the bathroom in a regular restroom. Like, it's so restrictive and ridiculous.
00:14:03
And they're just like, this is bullshit as it is. And then kind of like the third or one of the elements that's the topper, which I mentioned in my story last week about the death of Mary Fagan,
00:14:16
the murder of Mary Fagan and the murder of Leo Frank, it's around this time the KKK starts to
00:14:22
have a resurgence. Yeah. So tensions are high in the South. Yeah. And everywhere. In 1920,
00:14:30
a white 18 year old boy named Roy Belton is accused of murdering a local Tulsa taxi driver.
00:14:38
And before his guilt is even confirmed, a group of armed men storm the jail, take Belton and lynch him.
00:14:45
Holy shit. Yeah. He was white or black? He was white. Oh. So many Tulsans blame the police for not protecting Belton.
00:14:53
Others support this lynching as this vigilante act that's righteous. Right. But this event makes the black citizens of Tulsa fear for their lives because if that
00:15:01
can happen to a white boy, they know that they are definitely not safe. No. So now we're back to 1921 with the elevator incident.
00:15:09
The morning after, which is Tuesday, May 31st, 1921, the police find 19-year-old Dick Roland at his mom's house on Greenwood Avenue, and they take him to the Tulsa City Jail at First and Main Street for questioning.
00:15:22
Dick explains to police that although he did put his hand on Sarah, he was not trying to hurt her.
00:15:27
That afternoon, around 3 p.m., with Dick in custody, the white-owned newspaper, the Tulsa Tribune, prints a story about Dick's arrest with the headline, quote,
00:15:37
NAB Negro for Attacking Girl in an Elevator. The rest of the article supports this biased headline and makes Dick look guilty of an attempted assault.
00:15:47
Yeah. OK, so the same paper also publishes an editorial piece. It's like they had these ready to go.
00:15:54
And they publish an editorial piece with the headline, quote, to lynch Negro tonight, essentially calling for more vigilante justice.
00:16:03
So obviously, this newspaper is putting Dick Roland's life in danger intentionally.
00:16:10
It's like a call to action. It certainly is. So after the paper releases those articles, police commissioner J.M. Atkinson gets an anonymous phone call threatening to kill Dick Roland.
00:16:20
So that coupled with the fact that the police are still shaking off the criticism that they didn't properly protect Belton.
00:16:28
Commissioner Atkinson moves Dick Rowland to the more secure jail on the top floor of the Tulsa County Courthouse.
00:16:34
But rumors of a potential lynching and the calling for a goddamn lynching in the newspaper.
00:16:40
It's not a fucking rumor. Yeah, it's not a rumor. Draws more and more people to the courthouse.
00:16:45
And by 730 that night, hundreds of angry white Tulsans are gathered outside the courthouse demanding to be shown Dick Roland.
00:16:54
Oh, dear. It's called a mob. It's an angry terrorist mob. So Sheriff Willard M. McCullough sends six of his officers to the roof of the courthouse with rifles.
00:17:04
He disables the courthouse elevator and he positions more officers on the top floor with directions not to open the door for anyone.
00:17:11
Around 8.20, three white men from the angry mob somehow, quote unquote, get inside the courthouse.
00:17:19
The sheriff immediately gets them out. And he then addresses the crowd, telling them there isn't going to be a lynching.
00:17:25
They all need to leave. Now, it's it's, you know, questionable whether or not he made a real effort here.
00:17:33
Yeah. Because despite his, quote unquote, orders, the crowd continues to build. And by nine o'clock that night, there are 400 angry white Tulsans outside of the courthouse.
00:17:45
With rumors of a potential lynching swirling around the town the people of the Greenwood district gather on Greenwood Avenue to come up with a plan because they know Dick Roland is basically a dead man He innocent and they going to kill him terribly They don know what their strategy should be though The World War I vets want to collect up guns and ammo
00:18:05
and prepare for a potential battle. The businessmen want to be as peaceful as possible because they
00:18:10
don't want anything that would threaten their hard-earned properties and businesses.
00:18:14
About 20 to 50 of the men of the Greenwood District decide to go to the courthouse as a group,
00:18:21
some of them armed and offer their services to the sheriff to help protect Dick Roland.
00:18:27
Oh, dear. Right. But I was thinking about that where I was like, oh, it's not the best idea.
00:18:32
But you would have to go armed. If you're going as this tiny group of black men, you can't not take.
00:18:38
Sure. It's understandable. It's just like, you know where this is going. But the only option is to let them kill an innocent 19 year old.
00:18:46
Totally. And also, I think these were very empowered, intelligent people who are just kind of like, it ain't going to be this way anymore.
00:18:53
Like, let's not. Yeah. When they arrive, the sheriff is like, no, thanks. Get out.
00:18:58
We don't need your help. You're making it worse. They go back to the Greenwood District.
00:19:02
But the angry white men who'd been standing outside the courthouse were surprised by this group of Greenwood District men.
00:19:09
Yeah. And they were enraged that they would appear there. So a bunch of them leave the courthouse, a bunch of the angry white mob leave the courthouse, go home to get their own guns.
00:19:20
And a group of several hundred decide to try to get more weapons by robbing the National Guard.
00:19:27
Oh, no. Yeah. So Mayor James Bell, who was of the National Guard's 180th Infantry Regiment, he knew what was happening downtown at the courthouse and he was prepared.
00:19:39
He had his guards prepped and ready to shoot any intruders on site. And so basically they come up to the National Guard, I guess, armory to go and be like, we're taking guns and we're going to go.
00:19:50
And they were all just like, we'll kill you if you keep coming. So they just walked away.
00:19:54
OK, great. Right. So they give up there and go back to the courthouse. So now the crowd of the courthouse has swelled to nearly 2000 angry white men, most of whom are now armed.
00:20:05
Word of the growing armed mob gets back to the Greenwood district and some of the men in Greenwood decide that this is their last chance to save Dick Roland from being lynched.
00:20:15
This time, 75 black men from the Greenwood district, now most of them armed, arrive at the courthouse just after 10 p.m.
00:20:23
Again, they offer their services to the sheriff. Again, he says no. But now that the white mob is armed, they're feeling bolder.
00:20:32
One of them reportedly approaches one of these one of the black men from Greenwood, the Greenwood group, and demands he give up his pistol.
00:20:40
The man, the black man refuses. A shot is fired. So no one knows for sure who fired that shot, whether or not it was an accident.
00:20:48
If it was just like every, you know, emotions were running high. If it was meant to scare both groups off.
00:20:54
No one knows what happened. But ultimately, it doesn't matter because it starts a shootout that leaves 12 people.
00:21:01
some black and some white dead. They're drastically outnumbered, so the group of black men retreat back to the Greenwood District,
00:21:09
but this time the white men follow, looting stores along the way for more weapons and ammo.
00:21:15
So now it's on. The gunfight continues along the Frisco train tracks, which separate the Greenwood District from the neighboring white districts.
00:21:23
Some of the white mob drive into Greenwood proper and start shooting at people and businesses drive-by style.
00:21:31
So they just start. And some of these people didn't know what was going on. So there is that was part of the Watchmen thing.
00:21:37
So amazing is people coming out of a movie theater or they went into movie theaters where those people had no idea and then just murdered everybody in a movie theater.
00:21:47
So they're just picking people off on the street. In some cases, business owners trying to protect themselves return fire.
00:21:53
Meanwhile, the National Guard officers come up with a way to stop the chaos. But it's not a great plan.
00:21:59
They station guards at the courthouse, but then they station protective guards only around the white neighborhoods.
00:22:07
They send other guards to round up black people, whether they're participating in violence or not, and detain them at the convention hall on Brady Street.
00:22:17
So immediately it's protect white people and arrest black people. The fighting continues through the early morning hours of Wednesday, June 1st, 1921.
00:22:25
Around 1 a.m., the white mob begins setting black businesses along Archer Street on fire.
00:22:32
Some reporters say the Tulsa Fire Department tried to put the fires out, but the white mob threatened to shoot them if they did.
00:22:39
Some other reports suggest that the fire department was siding with the white mob and deliberately didn't put the fires out.
00:22:47
The fires rage, and by 4 a.m., roughly two dozen black-owned businesses are burning.
00:22:52
Oh, my God. Okay, so this is where Buck Colbert, I'm pronouncing it Colbert like Stephen Colbert, or it could be Colbert, but Buck Colbert Franklin, this is from his 10-page document where he wrote it right after he saw it.
00:23:06
Okay. And you can also read this in Smithsonian Magazine. He wrote, quote, I could see planes circling in midair. They grew in number and hummed, darted and dipped low.
00:23:17
I could hear something like hail falling upon the top of my office building. Down East Archer, I saw the old Midway Hotel on fire burning from its top.
00:23:26
And then another and another and another building began to burn from their top. The sidewalks were literally covered with burning turpentine balls.
00:23:36
I knew all too well where they came from, and I knew all too well why every burning building first caught from the top.
00:23:44
I paused and waited for an opportune time to escape. Where, oh, where is our splendid fire department with its half dozen stations, I asked myself, is the city in conspiracy with the mob?
00:23:55
So people were flying overhead of the gridlock. Greenwood District and throwing turpin flying, burning turpentine balls down onto the building so they'd all catch on fire and burn.
00:24:08
So it was like a complete it was a blitz onslaught. Yes, a blitz completely overpowered by the mob.
00:24:16
Many Greenwood District residents flee the city. Troops from another Oklahoma National Guard station arrive on the scene around 915 a.m.
00:24:25
on June 1st as backup. At this point, roughly 4,000 black people have been detained by the local National Guard.
00:24:33
4,000. The National Guard declares martial law around 11.50 a.m. and try to regain order.
00:24:40
Between 12 and 1 p.m., the violence finally stops, but the fires rage on for two full days.
00:24:47
The rounding up and detention of black citizens in the city continues throughout.
00:24:52
When martial law is finally withdrawn, on Friday, June 4th, 1921, there's still about 6,000 black people
00:25:00
being held in detention. Some are held for as long as eight days. Wow. When all is said and done,
00:25:05
more than 35 blocks in the Greenwood District are destroyed. 35 blocks. Oh, my God.
00:25:11
191 businesses, 1,200 homes, churches, and schools are burned to the ground. An estimated 10,000 black citizens
00:25:19
are left homeless. It's hard to say exactly how many people died because many media outlets at the time would change their counts and release conflicting information.
00:25:29
But the estimates today range anywhere from 55 people to 300. Wow. And there is a really amazing in that Washington Post article.
00:25:40
They talk about how there's a potter's field that's out in the back of the cemetery in Tulsa.
00:25:46
They believe that they dumped a bunch of bodies out there that just they just buried them in a mass grave.
00:25:53
And that's why they don't know the number. Governor James B.A. Robertson calls for a grand jury to investigate how the massacre came about.
00:26:01
The investigation starts on June 8th, 1921 and includes both black and white witnesses, as well as the sheriff and other city officials.
00:26:09
They're all questioned about the events over a 12 day period. But the jury is made up of all white people.
00:26:16
Jesus. And they and they find the massacre was incited by the black citizens. Of course they do.
00:26:22
While they do acknowledge the law enforcement failed to prevent the violence, that's ultimately a worthless concession.
00:26:29
The court reviews 27 different cases associated with the massacre and 85 people are indicted.
00:26:35
But when all the legal proceedings are done, not one person is convicted for the murders or the damages in the Greenwood District.
00:26:42
When questioned about what happened, Tulsa police, firefighters, National Guard and other officials try to say they did everything they could to stop the violence.
00:26:52
But witness accounts say otherwise. There are mentions of the city preventing the Red Cross from coming in to provide medical aid and firefighters either letting the fires rage or being persuaded by the white mob to stand down.
00:27:07
Yeah. There are even reports, which is not a hard thing to be persuaded by a fucking angry mob.
00:27:13
There are even reports that local police had deputized some of the mob, giving them weapons and the authority to attack or detain black residents.
00:27:23
Hope Franklin, the son of Buck Franklin from the man who wrote his eyewitness. Yeah.
00:27:27
He says the term riot is contentious because it assumes that black people started the violence as they were accused of doing by whites.
00:27:35
We increasingly use the term massacre or I use the European term pogrom. It's a long road to rebuild the Greenwood District.
00:27:45
And even though it's eventually rebuilt, of course, it's never the same. Today, gentrification threatens to bury the history of the massacre and of the once thriving prosperous black community.
00:27:57
Historians and activists have been fighting to have the story of the Greenwood Massacre taught in Oklahoma classrooms for years.
00:28:04
But since the success and popularity of HBO series Watchmen starring America's queen Regina King, I put that in, and their incredibly impactful use of the events of the Greenwood Massacre, that has apparently pushed the argument over the edge.
00:28:20
And this month, February of 2020, Oklahoma. And this was what that root article was all about.
00:28:26
Yeah. Article written by Jay Connor. Oklahoma's Department of Education has announced that will be it will be officially adding the story of the Greenwood massacre to public school curriculums by this fall.
00:28:37
Just in time for its 100th anniversary in 2021. Holy shit. And that is the up until very recently kind of untold history of Tulsa's Greenwood massacre.
00:28:54
And if anyone's interested, the writer for the article for The Root, Jay Conner, he also
00:28:59
produces and co-hosts a podcast called The Extraordinary Negroes. So you might want to give that a listen.
00:29:05
Amazing. Because it's a yeah. And also just I don't know any of this shit. I had to look up the details of what the Jim Crow laws were.
00:29:13
Right. There's so much, especially like in the 80s, we were not educated in any, I think, effective way about about black history.
00:29:22
It says if it's our choice, whether or not we want to know stuff like this. Yeah, totally. And so that's also not to overdo it.
00:29:30
But the importance of diversity in especially in goddamn show business and in Hollywood is because these stories are great, important, vital American stories that should be told.
00:29:41
and the people that made the watchman prove that point yeah like what an amazing use of fact and
00:29:48
horrible like there plenty of horrible stories in our history yeah but they don have to just remain taboo unspoken don talk about that because it actually helps people learn how to do better We know how fucking bad it actually was Yeah Not covering over not rationalizing not saying it was their own fault
00:30:09
It was someone else's fault. It was a riot. They should have done that. Yeah. It's none of that stuff, but actually going, how do we make it so there's less angry mobs in general?
00:30:18
Yeah. Still to this day. To this goddamn minute. Good job. No. Great. That was incredible. I'm like speechless. That was hardcore.
00:30:29
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00:32:45
So Georgia's murder that I'm going to be doing is number 185, and that's the murder of Angie Dodge.
00:32:51
So the reason that this is my favorite murder is because, you know, on the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast, we really celebrate women.
00:32:57
But one of the things that we love the most is generations of badasses. And this story is incredible because, you know, Angie's mom, Carol, really just worked for over 20 years to figure out the true killer of her daughter.
00:33:11
And she worked tirelessly, you know, the one thing connecting everything. And the one thing that every single person had to say was Carol Dodge really would not give up.
00:33:20
She was a badass and she's the reason that this murder got solved. But the other reason that this murder got solved is because of a badass genetic genealogist named Cece Moore.
00:33:28
So all throughout the story, it's just women coming together to solve this case, this tragic story of Angie Dodge.
00:33:36
But, you know, the one happy ending, I guess, is just seeing how strong women are and how much we can do together and collectively, you know, do anything, I guess.
00:33:47
So, guys, enjoy episode 185, The Murder of Angie Dodge. All right. Should we do this?
00:33:54
Yeah, I think. I think. Have we fucking pradled on long enough? We have to go up the basement stairs out of the rec room and into the formal living room.
00:34:03
Yeah, that is my favorite murder. My favorite murder. I think I'm first, right? Yeah.
00:34:08
So put that shit down. I did. I did. I want to hold it like a news reporter as you do your story.
00:34:14
Karen, I'm so anal retentive about us not finding out what the other person is doing.
00:34:18
So I'm really careful. Just before when you were talking to Jay in the other room about like your story and some research, I plugged my ears because I didn't want to hear it.
00:34:26
Like, I'm really fucking, I don't know why I'm like this. Did you hear that halfway through that conversation, we were talking full voice in a very echoey kitchen.
00:34:33
And then I went, oh, lower your voice. You can hear it. No, I had my ears plugged.
00:34:36
Literally, I was a child with my fucking fingers in my ear because I just love the surprise.
00:34:42
And then you just held up your papers and it had the photo of the murder you're doing on the back of it.
00:34:47
Yeah, that's right. But it's meaningless. It's okay. It's meaningless to this point.
00:34:52
All right. what if I really did that alright one and two I'm doing the murder of Angie Dodge
00:35:04
aka the nation's first exoneration to rely on genealogical DNA testing are you ready for this
00:35:12
here we go all together now I got a shit ton of information from Washington Post's article by Kyle Swenson
00:35:18
a show called Keith Morrison Investigates 48 hours There's the Innocence Project dot org and a podcast called Double Loop.
00:35:27
OK, so here we go. Summer of 1996 in Idaho Falls, Idaho, 18 year old Angie Dodge had just graduated from high school with honors.
00:35:35
She was born in 1977. She's the youngest of four kids and all her older siblings were boys.
00:35:40
So she was like the fucking princess. Yeah. You know how that goes. She's described as driven and talented and bubbly.
00:35:48
And like, of course, she's just this lovely, bright smile, beautiful, sweet girl.
00:35:52
She looks, so it's 96. She looks like you in her teens Really She has a button nose She has a like a like a short short bob bleach blonde bob that like it so 90s thin eyebrows
00:36:06
Like she's quintessential 96. And I think I was 16 at the time and had the same fucking look.
00:36:11
Yeah. And she just yeah, she's totally normal. But after graduation, she's at 18.
00:36:18
She's like, I'm fucking ready to live on my own. It's not like she had a bad relationship with her parents.
00:36:21
She was just like wanting to be independent. So she gets her own apartment. apartment which at 18 is like if you're not going to college you're just moving into your own
00:36:29
apartment that's a big fucking step that makes me think she so you're saying there wasn't there
00:36:34
was not a problem in the family well i don't know maybe there was but her mom is a lovely person so
00:36:37
yeah yeah yeah but maybe she just had that thing of like i need to be out of my own i'm not gonna
00:36:41
wait until i qualify for college or do a bunch of stuff i did that and lived in a 375 dollar
00:36:48
room in an apartment that was a converted office building that had no closets and what's the
00:36:56
lighting called? That's terrible. Fluorescent. Fluorescent lighting with a bunch of girls. It
00:37:00
was terrible. And were there desks and dividers? No. Those got cleared out. So she wants to be on
00:37:07
her own. She wants to be independent. Sorry, bunk beds? No, no, no. Was it just one big room?
00:37:11
There was offices. Like there were single offices. Do you shut the shades if you want to go to bed?
00:37:16
no they were like each one had an office we all had an office basically oh got it in the building
00:37:23
yeah and now i understand how office buildings work so sorry oh 375 a month uh so she moves in
00:37:35
on her own she's like i'm gonna be independent um she tells her mother carol that she needs to
00:37:39
grow up and make her own mistakes but they are close and she moves into her same town it's not
00:37:45
Like she moves far away. Yeah. Yeah. She just wants to be on her own. Yeah. Idaho Falls is fucking gorgeous.
00:37:50
There's falls. Right. Can you believe it? It's in the southeastern corner of Idaho next to Wyoming, about 150 miles to Yellowstone.
00:37:59
So it's beautiful. More than half of the residents are Mormon. And because of this, it's kind of known as a safe town.
00:38:06
Everyone knows everyone. No one locks their doors. The story we've heard a million times.
00:38:10
It's like country living. That's how I grew up, too. When you're out far enough or like.
00:38:15
It's a town. Oh, she's in town. It's a town town. But it's it's so safe because everyone knows each other.
00:38:20
Yeah. But on June 13th, 1996, when the very reliable Angie doesn't show up for her shift at a beauty
00:38:27
supply store, which, yes, I looked up. It was called Beauty for All Seasons. Nice.
00:38:31
Two co-workers go by Angie's apartment to check on her because they're like, this is so not
00:38:35
like her. Like they asked the boss if they could leave and go check on her. That's how how rare it was.
00:38:39
Yeah. And they find the front door slightly ajar. She lives on the second floor.
00:38:44
They go upstairs and go into the bedroom and they find a bloody scene with Angie Dodge lying half naked on the bedroom floor.
00:38:51
Her throat had been cut and she had been stabbed 14 times. Oh, my God. I know. She's sexually assaulted.
00:38:57
It's possible she wasn't raped. It's kind of unclear. But what investigators do find is the perfect semen sample taken atop of Angie's body.
00:39:06
So they have DNA. Great. The neighborhood's canvassed and her friends and family are questioned.
00:39:11
They're eliminated as suspects. And the first six months of the investigation are spent on tips that go nowhere and testing of DNA of local men.
00:39:19
And it goes nowhere. And fortunately, in this town, the average homicide rate is zero to one per year.
00:39:26
Wow. But because of that, the homicide investigators don't have a ton of experience, you know, investigating these kinds of crimes.
00:39:33
So they're not prepared. They're not experienced. one of the two lead detectives put on the case, Jared Furman, who gets like fucking decimated for
00:39:41
the story in so many of the articles. He had been a high school parole officer, not, you know,
00:39:47
like he had a truancy officer, no, like a security officer walking around, which is like a fucking
00:39:53
noble job and nothing wrong with it. But then to then go to homicide detective is hard, right,
00:39:58
to understand. Okay. So he had almost no investigative experience at all. Meanwhile,
00:40:04
Angie's mom Carol is like determined. It's cold. It's months and months. She's like, I'm going to find leads on my own.
00:40:13
And she starts to question Angie's circle of friends and go to the places they all hung out.
00:40:17
And in January of 1997, one of those friends, a guy named Ben Hobbs, who was possibly one of the things that he was the last one of the last people to see Angie alive.
00:40:28
And there's a video of him carrying flowers at her funeral. So he's like close to her.
00:40:34
He gets arrested in Nevada on suspicion of brutally raping a woman at knife point.
00:40:38
Oh, no. So they're like connection. Yes. Right. Obviously. So Hobbs denies being involved at all.
00:40:45
But when police start interviewing Hobbs's friends, they're led to a 20 year old high school dropout named Christopher Tapp.
00:40:52
He had kind of been a juvenile delinquent in the past. Seems like he was on the straight and narrow.
00:40:56
Maybe just a hangout guy. But none of Tapp's DNA matches with the samples taken from the scene or the semen found on Angie.
00:41:03
police ignore this evidence and assume he's involved somehow. So over three and a half weeks,
00:41:09
TAP is interrogated nine different days for over 30 hours total. He's given six polygraphs
00:41:16
and questioned for more than 40 hours. Wow. Yeah. He's just a skinny 20 year old kid. He doesn't
00:41:22
have high school education. He's not ready to like fucking spar, but he like cooperates because he
00:41:27
knows he didn't do it. Yeah. So he's cooperating and coming in every time they call him in.
00:41:31
So they start to lie to Chris Tapp to get him to confess. They tell him that his friend confessed to the crime.
00:41:41
He said that Hobbs had not only confessed to killing Angie, but that he had also implicated Tapp in the murder.
00:41:47
So they're lying to him. And it's all videotaped, which I guess you can do, which is so crazy.
00:41:54
They tell him that he had likely suppressed his memory of the incident and he should trust them because they would be able to prove he was there anyways and he get the death penalty So if he doesn confess and they still take him to trial and find him guilty which they said they could totally do then he getting the death penalty
00:42:12
So he might as well start talking and they can offer him immunity. That's what they tell him, which they can't do.
00:42:16
Yeah. And they can help him and he'll just go home. It's the fucking classic story.
00:42:20
Yeah. That sounds like Brendan Dassey. Yeah. There's a show called The Confession Tapes on Netflix that is just hard to watch because it's these cases over and over again.
00:42:31
It seems like using subterfuge to get a suspect to admit something seems like a good idea, but there should be limits.
00:42:39
Yes. The idea that you could suggest that someone is repressing a memory and basically fuck with their own, like the way their mind works and be like, and we have the proof that you're repressing your memory.
00:42:51
How do you not go? What if I'm repressing my memory? He says exactly that. Like he's hooked up to the polygraph machines and he's like, I wouldn't know if I did it.
00:42:59
Right. I wouldn't remember. Right. Like he's he is he clearly trusts. Here's the thing.
00:43:04
He went to the same school where the investigator was the cop at the school. So he trusted this guy, too.
00:43:14
And he's like, why would they want to frame me? I'm going to work with them. Maybe like, why would they lie?
00:43:18
They're right. He trusts them. Yes. You know, so. Well, and also when you're sorry.
00:43:23
But when you're in that situation, you can't do anything else but tell the truth, because if you didn't do anything, all you can do is keep on repeating exactly what you know about what you did.
00:43:33
Introducing the idea that you don't know what you did is really fucked up. Exactly.
00:43:38
And so Tapp trusts Furman because he knew him from high school. And police interrogators threaten Tapp with the gas chamber, like, quote, the gas chamber.
00:43:47
Wow. Or life in prison. They attack his memory. They feed him information, which when you watch the video of it, it's ridiculous.
00:43:55
Like they're even like, and that's when you cut her. And then he goes, and that's when you and like let him finish cut.
00:44:02
Like it's so fake. Yeah. So they promise immunity and threaten to take it away. They push aside Tapp's claims of innocence and they offer leniency in exchange for a confession.
00:44:12
At first, Chris Tapp denies any involvement. But over time, he's coerced into telling six different stories, which is a red flag in itself.
00:44:19
I would think. Like there should be one story. Eventually, investigators assured him that if he cooperates and admits he was there, he can go free.
00:44:26
They like lie and tell him that. So he agrees to cooperate whatever version of events police think happened.
00:44:32
They feed him the story. And he confesses to detectives that he and two friends, including that dude Hobbs, who had been brought in with him, had gone to Dodge's apartment on the night of her death.
00:44:43
And that after fighting with her, Chris Tapp says he held her down while his friend killed and raped her.
00:44:49
so he just like puts himself there uh but neither hobbs nor chris tap match the dna at the crime
00:44:56
scene they it doesn't match them oh yeah so chris tap then tells a third tells them of a third friend
00:45:03
who was there he says he could only remember the name mike like he invents a fucking person
00:45:08
yeah it's beyond red flag yeah and we're into this is like a mountainside in tibet
00:45:14
where it's just red material flapping in the wind everywhere the eye can see. That's right.
00:45:20
Horrifying. So this guy Hobbs maintains his innocence. He is convicted of this case in Nevada, rape at night point.
00:45:29
So that's fucking crazy. But he's let go by the Idaho Falls investigators. But even though his DNA isn't at the crime scene
00:45:36
and there isn't any other evidence pointing to him, police arrest Chris Tapp on his confession and charge him with murder.
00:45:43
his case goes to trial in 1998 where he recants his confession he pleads not guilty which upsets
00:45:49
carol uh dodge of course she's like just distraught um and on and it sounds like they coerced someone
00:45:56
else to um just a young woman police had manipulated her into a false testimony claiming
00:46:02
she had heard chris tapp mentioned his involvement in the murder at a party now we're into the west
00:46:08
memphis three shit that's right oh god somehow they got her maybe they were like had gotten her
00:46:12
on some evidence and this is how she got out of it. Who knows? Maybe. At the trial, he testifies that the admission had been coerced and that the DNA clearly
00:46:20
shows that he's not the killer, but prosecutors withhold the videotapes of his confession.
00:46:26
They only show little bits and pieces of it that, you know, corroborate their story.
00:46:30
Right. On May 28th, 1998, the jury convicts Christopher Tapp of aiding and abetting rape and murder
00:46:36
and he's sentenced to life in prison with a maximum of 30 years. and you know at the time idaho falls there this doesn't happen they are freaking out they want and
00:46:45
it took like a couple months for them to finally get someone who is like they said responsible yeah
00:46:50
they needed to close this case yes it's the pressure i mean it's the story every time yeah
00:46:55
is they're always working under massive pressure yeah and fear this fear that the community has
00:47:02
right especially when it's a small community and people know who the victim is yeah it's yeah that
00:47:07
That creates that pressure cooker. But still, it's just like as the people in that position, as the authorities along those lines, knowing full well you are putting a young man in jail or person in jail that is going to be there for the rest of their life.
00:47:23
I believe it, though. In this Keith Morrison Investigates show, when he interviewed them in 2012, they won't go on camera anymore or be interviewed.
00:47:33
They just keep saying, look at the tapes. Look at the tapes. where it's like, yeah, we looked at them and they believe it still.
00:47:40
Oh, because they don't realize they were coercing him. They don't realize they were feeding him the story.
00:47:44
They didn't understand. I don't think so. They didn't know the procedure. They knew that they, in their minds, knew that he had done this thing
00:47:50
and they were helping him to get it off his chest. Yeah. Oh, yeah. You know what I mean?
00:47:53
Yeah, that makes sense. And it needs to be, like, they need him to be. Meanwhile, Carol Dodge, the monster,
00:48:00
who's like the sweetest woman ever, is determined to find out who this fucking Mike person is,
00:48:05
because he's the killer. And she's like stoked that Christopher Tapp had gone to prison. But
00:48:09
she's like, there's still murderers out there. I need to find these people. I'm not settled.
00:48:14
So by 2009, the DNA profile of the killer, the actual killer had been put in the national
00:48:21
database CODIS, no match. Then she read an article in the paper about an internationally
00:48:27
known DNA expert named Dr. Greg Hampakian. He's the executive director of the Idaho Innocence
00:48:34
Project. She just fucking read about him. Thank God. And she was just like, I need help. And just
00:48:38
like fucking calls him up. That's interesting, though, because she's calling the Innocence
00:48:43
Project to talk about a killer, not getting somebody that she loves off. Or what it usually
00:48:50
what people go to the Innocence Project for is going saying, well, he said this is the first time
00:48:55
a victim's family member had contacted him. Yeah. But he you know, he was in a well known DNA expert.
00:49:01
So she just and she read an article. And you know how moms cut articles out? Like, maybe this guy
00:49:07
can help us. What else is she gonna do? You can't look it up in the phone book. Yeah. I mean, there's
00:49:12
yeah, no. And it turns out that Dr. Greg Hampikian is like, yo, I can totally help you. But full
00:49:19
disclosure, I just started working on Chris Tapp's conviction overturn. Like I just, I just started
00:49:25
working on Christopher Tapp's case. Yeah. Trying to see if it was a false confession because
00:49:30
Christopher Tapp probably has a family that's like, there's no way it was him. Well, yeah,
00:49:34
they keep trying to overturn the conviction. Yeah. So she's like, I don't care. I just want to know
00:49:38
what happened no matter what the outcome is. So let's work together. That's real mom energy.
00:49:43
I know. Like, I just want, I want the truth to come out. Yeah. Yeah. So she's like, just, yeah,
00:49:48
Like, let's see what the truth like. Let's see where the DNA leads us, what the truth is.
00:49:52
Yeah. So together, they persuade investigators to use familial DNA, a fucking brand new thing, to try to find Angie's killer.
00:50:01
But Idaho doesn't allow familial DNA searches in their criminal database. So Greg Hapakian, he is like, let's try to search public databases.
00:50:10
So in 2014, they search a public database owned by Ancestry.com. That has it's fucking crazy.
00:50:17
They have all these connections to the Mormon community. Did you know they're like one of the biggest contributors to DNA?
00:50:22
Yes. They're the big family tree people. Yeah. Like the Mormon church knows all about your family and where you come from and all that
00:50:29
stuff. And they're keeping it in like a bomb proof mountain shelter. And all these churches like line up to get their fucking cheek swabbed.
00:50:36
Like, understandably, it's not a big deal. I don't think. But they get their cheek swabbed.
00:50:40
They get their fucking ancestry built up and shit. Yeah. And so Ancestry.com was like, can we have that?
00:50:45
Yoink. And like bought it. Wow. Yeah. So basically six one point. Sorry, I want to see the documentary movie about the person who brokered that deal because it's some sweet talking Mormon.
00:50:56
Oh, no. That was someone that sweet talked some Mormons. Who knows? Some like slick salesman had to go in and be like, of course I won't drink coffee.
00:51:04
Yeah. Can we have access to this? I know you're already rich. Here's some more money.
00:51:08
Basically, one point six million people in Utah alone have given their DNA to this database and then Ancestry bought it.
00:51:16
Amazing. Yeah. So according to a search warrant, investigators received a list of 41 potential matches when they put in the DNA from the crime scene in July 2014.
00:51:26
One match is just one DNA marker away from the killer's DNA. Whoa. 34 out of 35 markers.
00:51:34
Whoa. They're like, great. They track him down. And when the man is looked into further, investigators are like, holy shit.
00:51:41
The man's name is Michael Ursary Jr. And right off the bat, they're like, his name is Mike.
00:51:47
His name is Mike. That's what fucking Christopher Tapp said. Yeah. Right. So they're like, boom.
00:51:51
Then they look more into his life and they look on his Facebook and it turns out that he has friends in Idaho Falls.
00:51:57
Even though he doesn't live there, he lives in New Orleans. Then they look more into him.
00:52:02
He's a low budget filmmaker whose films are like literally about violence and murder.
00:52:08
Let me read you one of the, this is what one of the movies are about. The description is, an average suburban housewife tries to stop her neighbor from going on a rampage after he witnesses a gruesome attack.
00:52:21
And the other one's called Murderabilia. It's just about murder. It his passion Right So they go to New Orleans They question Ursary and he admits to being in idaho falls in the spring of 96 whoa like on a trip he like i was totally there visiting friends but i don
00:52:38
know what was going on that night i don't know anything about this he provides a dna swab and
00:52:44
in early 2015 he's cleared whoa it's totally not him it's fucking just coincidence after coincidence
00:52:51
jesus but at this point he's like i want to get on the fucking baton wagon too and help like solve
00:52:56
this. So he teams up with Carol to help her. So now, wait, sorry, but we have to pivot
00:53:00
back and then be like, just because you like horror movies and just because you have those interests
00:53:04
doesn't make you a killer. It doesn't mean anything. Yes, that's unrelated. Let's turn our opinions around.
00:53:10
I was happy to jump on board with that. I see the error of my way. Yeah, but I bet
00:53:14
if you questioned him for 30 fucking hours straight, he'd, what's it called, confess to. Yeah, yeah, probably.
00:53:21
By this point, the Idaho Innocence Project had taken Christopher Tapp's case and they're able to get
00:53:26
Taps interrogation videos released. And then they're like, holy shit. Angie's mom, Carol,
00:53:31
watches the videotapes, too. And she's just like, oh, shit. She's like, I kept thinking and she was
00:53:39
reading all the case files. She's like, I kept not understanding what I was getting wrong and like
00:53:43
what I wasn't understanding until I realized it was all a false confession. Yeah, it was not the
00:53:48
whole story. It didn't make sense. Yeah. So Carol's convinced that the man serving time for her
00:53:53
daughter's murder was coerced into confessing and wrongfully convicted oh i know she's a
00:53:59
her only daughter she even contacts an expert an expert she even contacts an expert in false
00:54:09
confession analysis which is like what a fucking cool job yeah really his name's steve drizen
00:54:14
he watches all the videos as well and he says it's a textbook case of psychological coercion
00:54:20
He says that police fed Christopher Tapp facts about the crime scene using deception and other sophisticated and psychologically manipulative techniques.
00:54:30
And that's how they got the confession out of him. Wow. Yeah. Couldn't have been too sophisticated.
00:54:34
If they're not experts enough to be good at solving the crime, we can't then turn around and say that they're expert manipulators in the interrogation room.
00:54:42
I mean, it can't be that hard to convince a 20-year-old high school dropout. these men are like educated professionals to that he did it. Same with Brendan Dassey. It's like not
00:54:53
like Brendan Dassey was a mastermind and they got him to confess. Yeah, that's true. It could be the
00:54:58
emotional ploy. Right. Anyway. Okay, go ahead. No, no, it's good. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on
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Goodbye. Goodbye. So during this time, Christopher Tapp appeals his case several times, and eventually Tapp's attorneys offer prosecutors a deal in March of 2017.
00:56:38
For his immediate release from prison, Tapp would agree to keep the aiding and abetting murder conviction on his record, but they're going to drop the aiding and abetting rape conviction.
00:56:47
So both sides agree to this fucking deal. Okay. And after 20 years in custody, it just lets Christopher Tapp walk free.
00:56:55
He was in jail for 20 years? Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah and you should see like he yeah it sucks Yeah So like when he at trial the videos at trial and stuff he just this little boy And now he this grown man
00:57:08
Yeah, it's crazy. So fucking cut to this past May of 2019. Oh, what's that? Four months ago.
00:57:17
Four months ago. Yeah. Idaho Falls police announced that they had used familial DNA and they were able to find
00:57:24
a match to the contributor of the DNA at Angie's crime scene. A man now 53 years old named Brian Dripps.
00:57:34
Dripps and tap. Is that the fucking thing? That's terrible. It's like such a coincidence.
00:57:38
That's crazy. Yeah. Coincidence. So Brian Dripps had been living in Idaho Falls at the time of Dodge's murder, but he
00:57:45
had no history of violent crimes. He had been talked to by investigators when they were doing the canvassing of the neighborhood
00:57:52
because he lived across the street from Angie's house. So they had like talked to him and he was like, I don't, I went out and came home and
00:58:02
I was drunk and passed out. Like, I don't remember what happened. And they were like, great.
00:58:06
Goodbye. Talk to you later. Yeah. So after, so what happened was investigators had gotten a familial DNA hit thanks to the
00:58:13
help of Pero Bond Nano Labs, which is the Virginia based company that also helped ID
00:58:18
the Golden State Killer. Hi. Recently. Hey, what's up, best friends? Good job, everybody.
00:58:22
Good job, guys. Police had, they got the match, like familial match. They had to do the same thing with Golden State Killer where they followed him.
00:58:29
They found a cigarette butt. Yeah. Tested it to be sure. And it matched him exactly.
00:58:35
So over the course of an interview that lasted about five hours, Dripps admitted to the rape and murder of Angie Dodge and said he acted alone.
00:58:44
Wow. Yeah. So Christopher Tapps is finally cleared. He's charged the same night.
00:58:49
The two investigators who had coerced a false confession from Christopher Tapp, they're now retired and they refuse to talk about the case.
00:58:56
Yeah. I saw one thing that was like one of the investigators said he doesn't remember anything about the case.
00:59:02
But then I said another thing that was like he might have early onset Alzheimer's.
00:59:06
So that might be why it's not. I mean, then you could argue early onset Alzheimer's.
00:59:10
You forget current things first. Really? Not to be an argumentative. Be it. But I also bet there is such a massive amount of guilt that they can't even acknowledge because to actually look in face, they approach that with, you know, we're all doing our best at all times.
00:59:27
They approach that with we want to get this woman's killer off the street. Yeah.
00:59:32
These things are pointing to you, whatever we have to do to get you off the street.
00:59:36
And that's what they were trying to do. Their aim was true, but it was just way off.
00:59:40
It was off. Yeah. And like, I wonder if they'll even admit it now that he had nothing to do with it or if they'll say, well, I bet he was still there aiding and abetting.
00:59:49
Like they must have known each other somehow. You know what I mean? Like, yeah, won't let it go still.
00:59:52
But if the actual killer is like I acted alone, that's kind of the end of the story.
00:59:56
Totally. So on July 17th, 2019, I was just like a month ago. Yeah, that's right.
01:00:04
And now 43 year old Christopher Tapp's charges were vacated after fighting for his freedom for 22 years.
01:00:10
he said, quote, I am appreciative and deeply humbled that this moment has finally come.
01:00:16
His case will serve as the nation's first exoneration to rely on genealogical DNA testing.
01:00:21
Wow. So, I mean, I feel like we should expect more of those. I'm sure. More than 25% of the more than 360 wrongful convictions overturned by DNA evidence in
01:00:32
the United States have involved some form of a false confession. recently um brian drips was in court for a preliminary hearing and he said that he didn't
01:00:42
know angie dodge and he was drunk and high on cocaine and didn't remember what happened that
01:00:46
night he had just had a baby so he admits it but there's a whole thing about like did they
01:00:53
now he's fighting because he's saying they didn't read him as miranda rights but it's
01:00:58
it's all just stalling and bullshit right so well and that sounds like actually even more
01:01:03
kind of internal denial where it's like, yes, drugs will make you do things, especially
01:01:09
amphetamines or like uppers that you normally wouldn't do. But murdering a person in cold blood is a whole different area.
01:01:19
Yeah. Like you knew there was a single woman living there alone. So you must have seen her there before.
01:01:26
And like that's premeditation. When you weren't on cocaine. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly So you knew where to go Yeah Yeah Yeah just happen Right So Carol Dodge mommy was present at the hearing and sat through the details about how her daughter was brutally raped
01:01:42
I don't know how families do that. They do it. I know. And it's, I mean, it's just so sad.
01:01:48
It's so sad. It's, I get it. Like you want to, you, you don't want them to have suffered alone.
01:01:53
Right. I think you're there with them a little bit. Maybe. Yeah. It's just so it's such a like a brave and incredibly strong thing to do because you're already in the worst place you can be.
01:02:02
Right. And then it's like and now we have to go even further. I wonder if they feel obligated to sit through that so they understand.
01:02:09
Yeah. So they know the whole story because also the I'm sure not knowing makes it worse because that means you're writing whatever you're thinking.
01:02:15
It's just like every time we get to this part in any kind of true crime documentary, it's just like, good God.
01:02:21
Yeah. The amount of grief this person went through is insane. um so she sat through the hearing and after the hearing carol dodge approaches brian dripp's mother
01:02:31
and says to her it's going to be okay oh no and in tears the women embraced outside the courthouse
01:02:38
you know that's the one that gets me the worst no and you know it's like you see before during
01:02:45
christopher tap's trial she was so angry i like the son might one of the sons might have yelled
01:02:51
something at them like they were pissed off hell yeah and now this time around she's had some time
01:02:57
to fucking deal with you know that this is part of her life she had compassion which i think is so
01:03:03
beautiful yeah angie would be 41 today if she hadn't been killed carol says about her only
01:03:08
daughter's death that quote grief has no time limit i can't let go right that is the murder
01:03:15
of Angie Dodge, the nation's first exoneration to rely on genealogical DNA testing.
01:03:21
Wow. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Amazing. I found that when I was looking on Wikipedia for for convictions that were overturned.
01:03:32
Oh, yeah. Yeah. So thanks, Wikipedia. Yeah. Good job, Wikipedia. That was great.
01:03:37
All right, guys. I hope you enjoyed that murder. The murder of Angie Dodge. That's it for me.
01:03:42
I had such a great time. I hope that you guys loved listening to these stories again.
01:03:47
You can catch the True Beauty Brooklyn podcast with myself and my co-host Alex Shapiro every Friday on Exactly Right.
01:03:54
Our show is a lot of fun. We, like I said before, just celebrate women. We celebrate marginalized communities.
01:04:00
We talk all things beauty. We answer your listener letters. We laugh a lot. It's a lot of fun.
01:04:04
I think that you guys will enjoy it. So come check us out and have a great week.
01:04:10
Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup,
01:04:46
Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14.
01:04:51
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation. And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
01:04:57
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. And by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
01:05:03
And Hyundai continues doing it every day, because the future isn't some far-off concept, it's already here.
01:05:09
Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. Clothes shopping, not as easy or fun as it sounds.
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