00:00:00
This is exactly right. and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
00:00:36
Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:00:45
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,
00:00:52
tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeart Radio app.
00:00:58
Search Joy 101 and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
00:01:10
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime.
00:01:19
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
00:01:27
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:37
Hello, hello. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. I am your guest host, Kara Klank. I am the co-host of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, also on the Exactly Right Network.
00:01:50
And I'm really excited to be hosting today. I have known Karen and Georgia for a long time.
00:01:56
fun fact, I was at the Halloween party where Karen and Georgia met for the first time.
00:02:02
A small apartment party here in beautiful Los Angeles, a Halloween party. Karen was dressed
00:02:09
as a nurse. Georgia was dressed as Glenn Danzig. I was dressed as a three blind mice, but my third
00:02:14
blind mice, it was me and my husband and we had a third mouse who got social anxiety and didn't
00:02:18
come. So we were two blind mice. But I remember them meeting there. That's where I met Karen. I
00:02:23
I had met Georgia before, and I believe that party is where I met Karen. And I just have been friends with them ever since.
00:02:28
And I love them. And I'm so beyond thrilled to be on their network. Obviously, they have made a huge mark with My Favorite Murder.
00:02:36
It's one of the OG true crime podcasts. And I'm just so excited that we get to bring our little SVU slash true crime slash comedy
00:02:43
podcasts to their family. And yeah, let's get started. My favorite love. Okay, the first story that I've chosen to highlight in today's episode is from the brilliantly funny Karen Kilgariff, who I share initials with.
00:03:18
And it is episode 91, live at the Sony Center in Toronto. And it is the story of Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka, a famous Canadian couple, also known as the Ken and Barbie killers, who, I mean, committed just heinous, heinous crimes.
00:03:36
But we also covered this, I believe, in our second episode of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast.
00:03:43
And I just love I picked both my both the stories I picked for Karen and Georgia today are ones that we've also covered because I just like hearing the way we cover them in different ways.
00:03:51
and I love the way Karen tells it and you're going to as well. Here you go. So, on to the murder part.
00:04:03
Oh, right. Oh, shit, girl. Did you see it? I did. Okay, so... You're a sneaky piece.
00:04:11
I can't help it if I have perfect vision. And you're a really good upside-down reader.
00:04:18
This is a heavy hitter. I'm sorry. No, no, go ahead. Heavy hitters episode, I think.
00:04:22
Heavy hitter, but it's also apology makeup work for the city of Toronto and the country of Canada as a whole.
00:04:32
We owe you guys. Guys, long, long ago in 1968 when we started this podcast, and I thought it was kind of like, I thought it was what we were talking about it to be when we first conceived of it,
00:04:45
which was, hey, you and me all sit in your living room and we'll just like talk about serial killers
00:04:50
and murder and true crime and stuff that we're kind of fascinated by, casually, conversational.
00:04:56
And very quickly we learned that that is absolutely not the way you can talk about true crime because you have to know.
00:05:03
Years and cities and facts and dates and the truth is really important. It's a big part of it.
00:05:11
Yeah. And I think it was around like the third episode. I... Thanks. They knew. They were ready to tell you.
00:05:22
Because they're pissed. Oh. I did this one, and I talked through it as if it happened to my neighbor.
00:05:35
I was so young back then. The whole reason I wanted to do it is because I had one, actually, like, one person away from, one degree away story that I love to tell all the time.
00:05:47
And that's what I was building the whole concept around. but like I didn't do any research at all.
00:05:52
And I remember some girl emailing or tweeting but she was just like that was horrible And then I was like yeah that was horrible You right And then this whole time I been saving it to come to Toronto to redo it
00:06:09
Cause I felt bad. It was quite a, it was quite an awakening to realize that I just signed up for
00:06:14
a podcast where I had to do a fucking book report every week. I guess not my jam as you can well,
00:06:21
as you well know. But anyway, tonight I'm going to do the case of the schoolgirl killers,
00:06:29
the Ken and Barbie killers, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka. For visitors, boyfriends, girlfriends,
00:06:42
people who have never come before, we're not cheering for the murderers. We're not.
00:06:47
It feels like we are. I understand why that would bother a person. and maybe scare them to death.
00:06:53
That's not what's happening. At least with me. I shouldn't speak for everybody. All right.
00:07:02
I got most of the research from this retelling of the factual story from the A&E series biography that they did on these murders,
00:07:11
which is actually incredibly thorough. And they had a Scottish narrator, which I think is bold.
00:07:18
Definitely. The Canadian guy was sick that day. The Canadian guy that they had for it.
00:07:23
Well, it was YouTube, so it's international, I guess. Okay. Unless they do only Canadian YouTube here.
00:07:30
That's the thing. They don't tell you about Canada. They fucking take over your YouTube.
00:07:35
And the internet? Like, this site can't be seen, Canadian. Sorry about that. Okay.
00:07:44
The other chunk of information or bunch of information that I got I stumbled upon this amazing article on a website called The Walrus.
00:07:54
Yeah. It's so good. That's a good one. So a girl, a woman named Stacy Mae Fowles wrote this.
00:08:04
She is from Scarborough. She was 11 years old at the time that the Scarborough rapist was at the height of like his reign of terror.
00:08:14
and she wrote a beautiful article that I highly recommend you go read called Boy Next Door.
00:08:20
It's amazing. I cried at the end. It was really fucking great. And it made me really happy. And I stole, stole, stole.
00:08:28
Okay. Okay, so Paul Bernardo was born 1964 in Scarborough, Ontario. He was the youngest child to Kenneth and Marilyn Bernardo, an unhappy couple.
00:08:45
Isn't that how these always start? I mean, what couple that we know in these stories is happy or sober?
00:08:54
Yeah. His father would later face charges of being a peeping Tom and a pedophile.
00:09:02
And he also molested Paul's sister. So bad things were happening from jump for Paul.
00:09:10
He also physically, verbally abused his whole family, and he often called his wife bitch and big fat cow.
00:09:19
His mother was a depressive. I wonder why. And she'd often leave the family for the weekend and just go stay with her family.
00:09:27
And after a while, in this family, things got so bad that she just went down and lived in the basement.
00:09:34
Whoa. Yeah. That's how some people cope. You go as low as you can. Just get weighed down there by the Christmas decorations.
00:09:49
So dark. It's just like, Mom, is there any milk? That's okay, I'll do it. I'll do it.
00:09:57
so um although paul bernardo was described as a happy child as a youth he when he joined the boy
00:10:08
scouts all the uh people the leaders noticed that he really loved starting fires and that was his
00:10:17
boy scout jam well aren't they supposed to start fire i mean they're supposed to
00:10:21
i got scared for a minute but then i was like wait a minute but it's like you get your badge
00:10:26
And then you don't need to start a whole bunch of other fires. Okay. Got it, got it, got it.
00:10:30
Is the thing. Smart. So, 1981, when he was 16, he found out that Kenneth wasn't his biological father, and he lost his shit, obviously.
00:10:43
Although, in retrospect, I would feel pretty good about it. Yeah, that's a positive.
00:10:47
The peeping Tom is not your dad. Quit crying. Everything's fine. But, of course, he was 16.
00:10:54
This had been his life. It's like he found out his whole life was a lie. So he was furious at his mother.
00:11:00
He blamed his mother for the whole thing. Started calling her slut and whore, you know.
00:11:06
And she started calling him bastard all the time. Just fucking good times Sunday to Sunday at the Bernardo's house.
00:11:14
Come over for dinner. You're going to love it. Okay, so after he graduates from high school, he gets a job with Amway.
00:11:25
Are you guys familiar with Amway? It's like a pyramid scheme. It's weird. They sell a bunch of different shit,
00:11:32
but really the point is that you get more people that you know to come in and sell this weird laundry detergent and shit.
00:11:39
It's just a pyramid scheme. It's like, Karen, have you noticed how clean my shirt is?
00:11:43
I actually did notice that here at lunch. Be with one of us, right? I want my shirt to be that clean.
00:11:53
They're really not that clean. But what he really picked up from working there was this what they call the polemic sales culture
00:12:06
Didn't look it up, not sure what it means. But what I assume it means is pushy, pushy, pushy.
00:12:11
Like, they don't take no for an answer, and they kind of get you from every direction.
00:12:15
They're super manipulative. Or it could mean casual. Who knows? That's the joy of this podcast.
00:12:23
It's all question mark-y. We have to stay true to some of our roots. Yes. Or else it won't be the podcast you listen to.
00:12:32
That's right. I had to leave one thing unresearched just so you knew I was still mean.
00:12:36
Yeah. I gotta be mean. Okay. He starts using these sales techniques to pick up women.
00:12:45
By the time he begins, yeah, because women love detergent. by the time he starts
00:12:54
going to school at the University of Toronto at Scarborough he is displaying sure, go raccoons
00:13:00
he's displaying all the signs of being a psychopath charming, outgoing life of the party, but also
00:13:16
an incredibly sinister dark side that only a couple people know about. His girlfriends who keep on breaking up with him,
00:13:23
all of his relationship time lengths just keep getting shorter and shorter because women go out with him and they're just like,
00:13:30
sorry, you're not allowed to call me a slut. I have only known you for three days.
00:13:34
Okay, we'll see you later. So he actually threatened to kill a couple of his girlfriends
00:13:42
if they ever told how abusive he was to them in their private life. Oh, my God. He was fixated on conquering women.
00:13:49
He was just obsessed with picking them up, having sex with them, and then making them do whatever he wanted.
00:13:56
All right, so that's Paul Bernardo in a nutshell. I'm sure there's tons of other things to say about it.
00:14:04
But now, Carla, this is because that obsession that he had, making women do whatever he wanted,
00:14:10
that's where Carla Homolko comes into the scene. She was born in 1970 in Port Credit, Ontario.
00:14:16
Her father was a traveling salesman and an alcoholic, of course. She had two younger sisters, Lori and Tammy.
00:14:23
Carla was also a bright student. She was, she, oh, she, their father was drunk, was a drunk that would insult the whole family,
00:14:35
and then he would go down into the basement. What the fuck? Isn't that fucking weird?
00:14:39
Yeah. What are the chances? Is that a thing here? They're like, yeah, no, everyone's parents said that.
00:14:48
It's not it. That's Canada. That's where all the Kit Kats are. They just don't tell America.
00:14:56
Don't tell the U.S. about us. What if it's very healing to go into the basement?
00:15:01
It's actually very good for you. They're just like, that's our secret. It's good for your skin.
00:15:05
Okay, so... Also, when Carla's mother found out that her father was having an affair,
00:15:17
she told him it was fine and to invite the mistress in for a menage a trois. So there was a lot of bad relationship patterning for both of these people.
00:15:27
If I had a tiny red flag, I would take it right here. Here you go. It would be fun.
00:15:33
Okay. So she was described as a child as being stubborn, domineering. She was a rebel in high
00:15:43
school. She cut herself. She would always claim that she was going to commit suicide to get
00:15:47
attention. She graduated in 1988, and she became a full-time veterinary technician.
00:15:54
Up until that last part, that was so me. So me. Okay. In May of 1987, in Scarborough,
00:16:03
A 21-year-old woman gets off the bus. She's followed by a man who was on the bus as well.
00:16:10
And he comes up from behind, assaults her, and she ends up being the first victim of the Scarborough Rapist.
00:16:18
And over the next 13 months, these assaults continue and they escalate very quickly.
00:16:25
The Scarborough Rapist begins raping women orally, vaginally, and anally, cutting them or penetrating them with a knife.
00:16:33
He chokes them, he punches them in the face, he stole one victim's ID, noted her home address, and then threatened to kill her family.
00:16:40
He broke another victim's arm. All the victims were attacked from behind, so none of them saw his face, but they all described him as a tall, young man with light hair.
00:16:52
While he was attacking them, he made them call themselves degrading names, like slut and whore.
00:16:58
so the police call in the FBI immediately to profile this rapist which is a great move and
00:17:07
they bring in FBI agent Greg McCreary you have seen this guy on every crime show there is he is
00:17:14
the guy he's the FBI agent with the gray hair who looks really tired of crime like he's like
00:17:20
so fucking sick of people being bad to each other so like when he's explaining stuff he's kind of
00:17:27
quiet like this, but he's just, he's kind of like man's inhumanity to man. That's what he's saying.
00:17:32
No matter what he's actually saying, that's just always what he's saying. I love Greg McCreary. Okay.
00:17:38
So, um, he does a profile on the rapist. He says, this is a sadistic rapist with a high
00:17:46
probability of escalation. Um, young in his early twenties, local, intelligent, high functioning in
00:17:52
a dependent living situation So probably living with his family So crazy that he was able to to determine all Yeah They know all that shit And then a psychopath obviously So in April of 1988 a 19 year old woman is attacked
00:18:08
after getting off the bus. She was actually pulled between two houses and raped and yelled for help.
00:18:13
And the people in the house has heard her and didn't respond. No, guys. Yeah, that's not how we
00:18:19
that's not how we do it. No. So the next month, the total number of known Scarborough rapist
00:18:24
victims had risen to seven. So this is a little bit crazy. Constable Vic Clark told the press,
00:18:33
quote, don't expect people to watch out for you if you happen to come back at 1 a.m. in the morning
00:18:37
off the bus. Like the police? Right. Like the police. He said, it'd be nice to think that you
00:18:46
can go anywhere you like nowadays, but don't put yourself in a vulnerable position. Hold on. Hold
00:18:53
your hate because the same month alderman john mackie proposed a curfew for women oh
00:19:01
for women finally get him out the street we've been waiting we told what time we're safe
00:19:10
just the logic there is yeah you're you're curfewing the gender that is not Creeping anybody? Okay. No, no, no. Come on. Come on.
00:19:28
In a refreshing turn, the Toronto Transit Commission instituted its request stop program.
00:19:35
Right. So which meant that women who rode the bus at night could tell the bus driver,
00:19:40
you can drop me right here in front of my fucking house and you didn't have to wait till the next bus stop so that women could get delivered exactly to where they needed to be.
00:19:48
That's what you do. That's problem solving right there. Moving here immediately.
00:19:57
Okay. October 17, 1987, Carla Homolka is now age 17, and she meets Paul Bernardo, age 23,
00:20:05
in a hotel restaurant in Scarborough. Two hours later, they're having sex in her hotel room.
00:20:11
Which, no judgment. Hey, look. Yeah. If there were anybody else, we'd be into it.
00:20:18
The friends who were with both of them that day said that the chemistry was palpable, like it was in the air, like it always is when two psychopaths meet and fall in love.
00:20:28
So, Stephen, will you put up that first picture of the happy couple? Barbie and Ken.
00:20:34
Look at those warm, welcoming eyes on both of them. They're just, wouldn't you love to sit in a hotel restaurant and stare across at her satanic, satanic eyes and then his whatever they're doing eyes?
00:20:51
And his tiny, tiny teeth with a fake smile surrounding them. He's like, this is what humans do when cameras come out.
00:21:01
This is it. Happiness. Yes. Well, Carla's family thinks that Pao Bernardo is great.
00:21:09
They don't mind the age difference. Her parents don't mind the age difference. He's smart, good looking.
00:21:13
He's trained to be an accountant. Her sisters think of him as the brother they never had.
00:21:19
Soon he's coming to her. She still lives with her parents. And soon he's driving to her house like a couple times a week.
00:21:29
I think it was an 80-mile drive from Scarborough to St. Catharines, which is where she lived.
00:21:34
She brags to her friends about how mature her 23-year-old boyfriend is. Within a year, she's confiding to them that he has become verbally abusive to her.
00:21:42
Oh, fuck. But she always forgives him. December 24, 1989, they take a trip to Niagara Falls, and they get engaged.
00:21:52
Did someone applaud? No. I think someone took their compact out of their purse. because they have something in their eye.
00:22:00
They're like, I love love and I don't care. She's like one snap. She's just like, shit.
00:22:15
Okay, so they plan to marry in spring of 1991. The family's thrilled. In May of 1990, just six months later,
00:22:23
the Scarborough police release a composite sketch of the Scarborough rape is based on all
00:22:28
of the victims telling the police sketch artist. So can we see that composite sketch?
00:22:33
Oh, I'm so excited. Steven, I wish you would have cropped that up a little higher.
00:22:39
Fucking. Why do we pay you? Oh my god, he left. He ripped off his mustache and left.
00:22:50
he looks like a fucking Nazi youth he looks like he's in the style council he looks
00:23:03
can I add another one? he looks like when you walk by a cheap hair salon and they have photos
00:23:08
in the windows this is the call this girl but a rapist I hate to say it out loud but I love
00:23:18
this girl bro rapist look? Is it wrong? I think the sweep over would look great on my giant forehead.
00:23:26
Okay. Well, here's what's crazy is Paul Bernardo's friends and his coworkers see this and they're
00:23:34
like, ring, ring, ring, 911 or whatever it is in Canada. Hello. Get me the fucking police right now.
00:23:40
Shut up. A ton of people that he worked with and that were friends with him called the police and
00:23:45
We're like, that's Paul Bernardo. And can we do the side-by-side comparison? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:23:49
Yeah. Oh, shit. I don't see it. No, I'm just kidding. Fuck, man. Okay. So the police bring him in for an interview.
00:24:00
He's polite, he's charming, and he's calm like any good psychopath would be. He volunteers his DNA.
00:24:05
What? It can't be you. They collect hair, blood, and saliva samples that are sent to the lab where they will sit for two years.
00:24:14
I don't like that. It's 1990. Okay. So then he moves in with Carla and her parents in St. Catharines, and suddenly the Scarborough rapes stop.
00:24:25
That's crazy. he tells Carla that so this is this is where it gets I mean we knew this was going to happen
00:24:35
but this is so fucked so he tells Carla that she can't give him the one thing he really wants
00:24:41
which is her virginity because she already gave that away so she can still give it to him
00:24:50
just through the person closest to her No, no. Her 15-year-old sister, Tammy. And Carla agrees.
00:25:00
So on December 23rd, after the whole rest of the family goes to bed, Paul and Carla invite Tammy to stay up with them.
00:25:07
And Carla has crushed sleeping pills and animal tranquilizers that she stole from her job.
00:25:15
Oh, my God. As a vet? Yeah. That's so dark. Yeah. Into her drink. She loses consciousness.
00:25:22
Carla puts a rag soaked with the drug halothene over her face Paul rapes her when Paul's done he tells Carla
00:25:31
he wants her to rape her she does all of it is on videotape so in the middle of that
00:25:41
Tammy begins to vomit and then choke on her own vomit and Carla rush put her clothes back on her and then
00:25:51
call an ambulance in the early hours of December 24th, 1990, Tammy Homolka is pronounced dead.
00:25:57
And aside from the mysterious burn marks on her face, which Carla and Paul say must have been rug burns,
00:26:03
her death is ruled an accident. A month later, Paul and Carla move out of her parents' house in St. Catharines.
00:26:11
They move into a two-story house in Port Delucie. I did it right? Good job. Thank you.
00:26:20
because I spelled it. It looks like DeLuise kind of a little bit. You just went for it?
00:26:24
I really did. I'm proud of you. Thank you so much. It was really fucking scary. No, it's terrifying.
00:26:31
There's so many people here right now. You guys made us, not you guys, but this podcast has made us scared of saying places in this world.
00:26:38
We never say it right ever. I mean, I guess it's not your fault. It's our fault.
00:26:42
Still, it's your fault. Okay, when they're in their own house, he starts to physically abuse in Carla.
00:26:50
and then when she threatens to leave him, he reminds her he has a videotape of her killing her own sister,
00:26:57
and so she has to stay. June 15, 1991, Paul wakes Carla up in the middle of the night
00:27:04
to tell her he has a surprise. He has kidnapped 14-year-old Leslie Mahaffey out of her own backyard.
00:27:10
So this is super fucked. Leslie had gone out for the day. I think I read something where it said that she was at a friend's funeral,
00:27:16
and then she stayed out past her curfew. so she probably like if her friend died she got drunk with her friends or something and when she
00:27:23
got home it was past her curfew her parents locked her out of the house so she went into the backyard
00:27:30
and that's when paul bernarder saw her and he lured her into his car with a cigarette offering
00:27:37
her a cigarette she was like sure um and then he ends up kidnapping her taking her to the house
00:27:42
um paul and carla videotaped themselves raping and torturing leslie for 24 hours
00:27:46
then strangle her, cut up her body, encase it in cement, and dump it in Lake Gibson.
00:27:53
Two weeks later, on June 29, 1991, two fishermen spot some strange blocks in the lake as they're fishing.
00:28:01
When they look closer, they see the human flesh is sticking out of the cement. It's the body of Leslie Mahaffey.
00:28:07
On the same day that her body is found, Paul Bernardo and Carla Homolka get married in a Catholic church in Niagara-on-the-Lake in front of 100 friends and family members.
00:28:20
What in the fuck? In the special that I was watching, when it switched from that to the video of their fucking fucked up early 90s wedding, the version of chills I got where this is insanity.
00:28:35
These are people who are completely cut off from any reality of what they're doing.
00:28:39
It was horrifying. And the hair and the dress was so ugly. I'm sure that was part of it.
00:28:46
But, okay. Now Paul starts telling Carla that he wants her to invite Tammy's friends over to the house
00:28:58
so that he can do the same thing to Tammy's friends. And she does. So they start drugging these girls that were friends with her sister.
00:29:07
And a lot of these girls had no memory of anything happening. They only found out after the videotapes were found.
00:29:14
And then they were informed that that had happened to them. Oh, my God. Yeah. Couldn't be darker.
00:29:21
Okay. On April 16th, 1992, Paul and Carla are driving around looking for a new victim.
00:29:27
They're just full on fucking predators. They see a 15-year-old girl named Kristen French who's walking home from school.
00:29:34
They pull into a church parking lot. Carla gets out holding a map. And then when Kristen walks by, she waves her like, sorry, I need to know directions.
00:29:43
And they pull her into the car and kidnap her. But this time there's witnesses. So people actually saw Kristen get taken.
00:29:53
But when they reported to the police multiple people say that it was a beige Camaro So immediately the police realize a girl been kidnapped A girl body has just been found We got something serious
00:30:07
happening. They start, they put together what they called the green ribbon task force dedicated
00:30:11
to figuring out what the fuck is going on. And the green river task force puts up this billboard
00:30:17
immediately. Have you seen this car? Wanted in the abduction of Kristen French. And there's the
00:30:23
the Green Ribbon Hotline. The only problem was that Paul Bernardo drove a gold Nissan.
00:30:30
He did not drive a beige Camaro. So it was a huge mislead. April 30th, 1992, Kristen's body is found in a ditch in Burlington.
00:30:44
She's clearly been tortured. Her hair has been cut off. Then the violence within the marriage
00:30:50
begins to escalate. on January 5th, 1993, Carla goes to the emergency room. Paul's beaten her with a flashlight.
00:30:58
She has two black eyes that go from here to here, and they're dark purple. She has broken ribs, extreme bruising.
00:31:08
Before she leaves the house to go to the emergency room, she tries to go find the videotapes,
00:31:14
and she can't find them anywhere. 20 days later, January 25th, 1993, the DNA samples come back that Bernardo had given to the Scarborough police,
00:31:25
and they match the DNA of the Scarborough rapist. So the Toronto police bring Carla in to talk to her,
00:31:32
because they know you talk to the wife, you know, like basically they have to break the news to her and then try to get information.
00:31:39
And it's our boy, FBI agent Greg McCreary, who leads the interview. Well, the Gree Brim and Task Force was there, too, and they did the interview, and they knew everything that was going on.
00:31:52
So they didn't accuse her of anything. They were more talking to her like they were being understanding and just basically trying to get information out of her.
00:32:00
So basically, once she talks to the police, she kind of knows that they're closing in on them.
00:32:07
So she goes to an uncle, and she confesses everything. She tells the uncle everything that they've done.
00:32:11
And the uncle says, you have to get a lawyer right now. So she tells the lawyer, you have to get me full immunity for my, I'll testify against my husband, but you have to give me immunity.
00:32:27
So then she ends up making a full confession saying that Paul is the Scarborough rapist, that he's responsible for the murders of Kristen French, Leslie Mahaffey, and her sister Tammy, and that she was forced to participate in all of it against her will.
00:32:39
And then she says all the proof they need is in their house on those videotapes if they just find them.
00:32:46
So on February 19th, 1993, a search warrant is executed in Bernardo Home. It's a 71-day search.
00:32:54
What the fuck? Yeah, they just kept looking because they couldn't fucking find these videotapes anywhere.
00:33:02
And they ended up not being able to find them in the house. so without evidence without that kind of evidence they only have carla's testimony so they have to
00:33:12
plea bargain with her because yeah she they need her testimony so she agrees to testify against him
00:33:20
in exchange for a reduced sentence the whole deal was kept secret from the public um to ensure a fair
00:33:27
trial for paul bernardo um so reporters were allowed in the courtroom the day of her sentencing
00:33:32
but they were only allowed, it was a publicity ban they were called, they called it, and they
00:33:38
were only allowed to report on what the charges were and what the sentence was. They weren't
00:33:41
allowed to report on anything else that happened. So of course this made all the press go crazy
00:33:48
of like how bad is this? This must be the worst thing ever because they never do stuff
00:33:53
like this. So in July of 1993, Carla Homolka pleads guilty to two counts of manslaughter
00:33:59
and she receives two 12-year sentences to be served concurrently. No. That was her deal.
00:34:07
She's sent to Kingston Prison and then soon after she files for divorce. September, right?
00:34:15
Yeah, like at this point, don't worry about it. Cut bait, baby. Yeah. Get out. Her lawyer's like, I'm not also doing that.
00:34:23
Yeah. You can't pay me enough. she's like, hey, every psychopath for themselves.
00:34:29
I don't have a conscience, so I don't care about you, my husband. Okay, so in September 1994, Paul Bernardo's lawyer quits.
00:34:39
He's not going to represent him anymore. That's how bad it was. Well, it turns out that the reason that the cops couldn't find those videotapes
00:34:47
inside their house is because Paul Bernardo's lawyer had gone into the house and taken them out.
00:34:54
No. They were hidden up in just for future use. If you ever are looking for anything or need to hide anything,
00:35:00
they were upstairs in a bathroom ceiling light fixture, like hidden up above. What a dick.
00:35:06
Yeah. The lawyer. Dick lawyer, but then when he quit, he gave the tapes to the next lawyer who was representing Paul Bernardo.
00:35:15
And that guy's like, yeah, I'm going to go ahead and give these to the cops. The law.
00:35:20
I mean, right? Yeah. Let me just say this, though. Not right away. Really? Like two weeks later.
00:35:29
Oh, like thought about it. I mean, I don't know. I slept on it. I mean. For two weeks.
00:35:34
He thought about it and then he was like, oh, I don't want to be the devil like the rest of these people.
00:35:39
Okay. So May 18th, 1995, Paul Bernardo's trial begins. Oh, sorry. So once the police have the tapes, they have to look at them.
00:35:50
they see what on them and they realize that her story of paul being fully responsible for everything is a total fucking lie and that she was happily participating in all of it as coldly and horribly as he was
00:36:05
and that, yes, she was clearly an abused wife, but still, on the videotape, didn't seem to be having a problem with any of it.
00:36:13
And they then realized that they called it the deal with the devil, where they had just basically,
00:36:19
they had given her the easiest way out, and she was just as guilty as he was. Wow.
00:36:23
Um, according to the videotape, which, you know, is pretty objective. Okay. Um, so May 18th, 1995, Paul Bernardo's trial begins.
00:36:34
The defense claims that Carla was the one who turned Paul into a murderer. He was just a plain rapist before.
00:36:40
But she, she fucking Yoko Ono that shit. She got in there and she fucked it up. And she should have a curfew.
00:36:49
but then carla gives her testimony um and then on september 1st 1995 the jury deliberates for
00:37:00
eight hours and then finds paul bernardo guilty of all nine charges against him including two
00:37:05
counts of first degree murder um yeah he's sentenced to life in prison without the possibility
00:37:12
of parole for 25 years. No, that's not long enough. 1995. No. Do a little math. I can't.
00:37:20
Okay. But soon. Okay. He was also, a couple months later, declared a dangerous offender,
00:37:28
which meant that he would likely spend the rest of his life in jail. Don't clap so fast.
00:37:36
In 2001, an Ontario court ordered that all evidence from the Paul Bernardo, Carla Homolka cases be destroyed.
00:37:45
So Leslie Mahaffey and Kristen French's parents and a bunch of the officers and the detectives
00:37:51
that worked on the case went down and witnessed all of the pictures and all of the videotape
00:37:57
and all of the evidence from the entire case watched it all get destroyed, which makes me very happy.
00:38:04
In 2005, 35-year-old Carla Homolka was released from prison after serving a 12-year sentence.
00:38:11
What the fuck? Don't it feel like you're booing us. She moved to Montreal. She changed her name to Leanne Teal.
00:38:21
Oh, we know who she is? Leanne Teal. That's what I would have changed my name to
00:38:27
if I had to move away. Sure. Because Teal's a great color, and Leanne is a name no one uses anymore.
00:38:34
She got married, and in 2007, she had a baby. No, no, no. No, no, no, no. It was recently discovered that she was volunteering at her child's school.
00:38:45
And in June, that school just released a statement, not naming any names, but saying that they do not allow anyone with a criminal record on their property.
00:38:57
So she no longer volunteers for her child's school. Oh, do we have that? Stephen, do you have that picture of this is modern day?
00:39:03
Oh, shit. I wonder if the school. Did everyone recognize her and know who she was?
00:39:09
I think there's people out there that are like, excuse me, I know who she is. She couldn't move back to her hometown, which is what she was going to do when she first got out of jail.
00:39:19
So she had to move to Montreal. What a monster. I'm sure it's great. I love French people.
00:39:26
She had to move to Montreal. She had to. So FBI profiler Greg McCrary believes Carla Homolka may have been more psychopathic than Paul Bernardo, being that she was able to live with the murder of her own sister.
00:39:42
I mean, you can't compare psychopathy, I don't think, but I like the idea that he was like, you know, something to think about.
00:39:51
And the whole time I was it's that thing where you're like, well, when battered women are in that, you know, you have battered spouse syndrome.
00:39:57
you're in that situation, what would you do? Or what would you be forced to do? Or whatever.
00:40:02
Then I read this piece of information that I thought was pretty bone-chilling. When Carla Homolka was questioned
00:40:08
and fingerprinted by the police, they noticed that she was wearing a Mickey Mouse watch
00:40:13
that looked a lot like the one Kristen French was wearing when she disappeared. Just in case you had any worries about Carla,
00:40:23
that she was being persecuted. I don't think if you were in that situation that you'd just be like, oh, a trophy.
00:40:31
Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Fuck, fuck. My hands hurt because I'm gripping this microphone so tightly
00:40:38
because I'm like, oh my God. Sorry, it's almost over. No, no, no. I've said it in a good way.
00:40:42
That's not a bad thing. In 2017, Paul Bernardo, that's this year. So he has served 22 years of his sentence already.
00:40:54
which means that they're now starting to discuss parole issues. Despite being declared a dangerous offender, he is in 2018, or no, this year he's eligible for day parole,
00:41:08
which means you get to leave jail and then come back in the evening. No, that's not how prison works.
00:41:15
Well, everyone. The hearing was supposed to be in August, and they pushed it to October.
00:41:22
and it's happening on the stage right now ladies and gentlemen hi I'm Chris Fairbanks
00:41:31
and I'm Karen Kilgariff we host Do You Need a Ride? the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question
00:41:36
what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles
00:41:40
yes every week we pick up a hilarious guest maybe run some errands share some laughs
00:41:46
and our dreams like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot I want to become a
00:41:51
influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they going to start living life for themselves Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery Then there a freaking deer right there on the side of the road
00:42:05
Oh, that's great. Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass.
00:42:12
New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:42:22
Thank you. You're welcome. I'm Anna Navarro and on my new podcast Bleep with Anna Navarro I'm talking to the people closest to
00:42:30
the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world because I know deep down
00:42:34
inside right now we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on every week I'm breaking
00:42:41
down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world I'm talking
00:42:46
to people like Julie K Brown who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018
00:42:51
The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
00:42:58
Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:43:04
Joy is essential, and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:43:13
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
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Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
00:43:36
Paul Bernardo's hearing will likely take place at the Milhaven Institute in Bath, which is near Kingston,
00:43:43
which is where he has been serving his life sentence. he is eligible for full parole in 2018.
00:43:50
So we'll see how it goes. You guys, don't do it. Please don't do it. Who here is deciding?
00:43:57
Okay, so I just want to read you the final paragraph of Stacey May Fowl's article
00:44:02
because I loved it so much. It's this, quote, I came across a story that ran in the Star, published soon after the trial concluded,
00:44:10
which argued that Bernardo was not the monster we wanted to believe him to be, but rather one of us.
00:44:16
A product of our culture, a man groomed with a pervasive, violent hatred of women.
00:44:22
Mary Lou McPhaedron, a women's rights advocate, spoke of the insidious impact Bernardo had on our community,
00:44:29
that he had created an ambient trauma even for those who had not been directly victimized by him.
00:44:35
It is a wound that will probably never heal. The Bernardo case has been played out as a titillating drama, she said, and we fail to understand what it's done to us.
00:44:44
wow that's it so fucked up really terrible you made up for episode 3 I think I can't say sorry
00:44:59
anymore than what I just did that's all I can do let's go back to episode 3 Steven take this note
00:45:09
take out Karen's story and put this in Just out of the blue. Wait, can I retell the whole reason I told that story in the first place?
00:45:17
That story of my friends? Oh, yeah, I don't even remember. Is this like, this one last thing?
00:45:22
Ooh, because your hands are so cold. And dry. No, I forgot. It's very fast. Okay.
00:45:30
My friend, so Paul Greenberg, who was on a sketch show called The Vacant Lot. You should know him and love him.
00:45:36
He is from here. Hilarious man. Now he lives in Los Angeles. You might hate him because of that.
00:45:41
anyhow he's the one that told me the story his mother was an artist and she lived in a high-rise
00:45:47
apartment building that a pool at the it on the roof and she she lived in scarborough at the time
00:45:52
that all these things were going on uh in the beginning of it not the not the couple's uh
00:45:57
schoolgirl killer time in the scarborough rapist time she goes up on to swim one day it's daytime
00:46:03
there's nobody up there and she's doing laps she is um i believe at the time she was in her late
00:46:08
60s or early 70s. She's doing laps in the pool and a young man comes out onto the roof as well.
00:46:15
She doesn't really pay attention. She's just doing her laps. And then she finally looks up
00:46:18
and realizes he's just standing at the end of the pool staring at her. And as she's doing her laps,
00:46:24
it's like he's just standing over her watching her swim. And she is super freaked out by it and
00:46:30
really scared. And it's getting to the point he starts walking along the side of the pool
00:46:36
as she swims. Uh-huh. And so she's shitting and it's not the way she would tell the story,
00:46:45
I'm sure. Until the fucking roof door bursts open and like three families with kids run out
00:46:52
and she's like, whoo, I'm out of here. Okay, so she goes right back down to her apartment
00:46:57
and sketches his face. She's like, uh-uh. Well, when that Scarborough rapist picture came out,
00:47:04
She went and pulled the sketch out and showed Paul. And she's like, that's the man that was on the roof.
00:47:11
And it was the exact same guy. Oh, my God. Yeah. Chills. I know. I love a first hander.
00:47:18
I'm sorry. I love a first hander. Absolutely. It's the best. Great job. Thank you.
00:47:24
That's OK. Too much. There's too much clapping. It's too much clapping. it went from us needing it and loving it and making making up for a lot of love we lost as
00:47:38
children to just being a little too much the clapping to ruining our own clapping all right
00:47:44
i hope you guys enjoyed that extremely extremely dark story i am always impressed by how karen can
00:47:52
make it so funny even though it is truly about the most depraved people on the planet but let's
00:47:57
get to our next story that i've chosen which is from My Favorite Murder, episode 63. The episode is called Stephen's Tuxedo. And this is the story
00:48:06
that the delightfully talented Georgia Hardstark told about Joseph Edward Duncan. And this is
00:48:13
another crime, as I mentioned, that we covered on our podcast because SVU did cover it on their
00:48:18
television show. And it's also, you know, a very harrowing, difficult story, but really,
00:48:24
really interesting and Georgia tells it perfectly. Ready for a serial killer? I am.
00:48:31
Real horrible guy. Here we go. Joseph Edward Duncan III. The third. The way I looked at you when I said that.
00:48:41
Was born on February 25th, 1963 in Tacoma, Washington. And I said that he looks like the actor Ben Mendelsohn,
00:48:49
who is the older brother from Bloodline. Remember that guy's got kind of a lisp and he's like an actor.
00:48:54
and he's kind of a little hot. Bloodline, was he the bad one? Yeah. He's the one everyone's worried about?
00:48:59
Yes. That guy's amazing. Yeah. He looks like him. So like creepy skinny, just to have an idea.
00:49:04
Okay. So in 1976, he's 15 years old and he commits his first recorded sex crime.
00:49:11
At 15, he rapes a nine-year-old boy at gunpoint. Oh, fuck. Yeah. I said I was going to raves at 15
00:49:17
and he was raping children at gunpoint. Fuck. Yeah. What happened to him? I don't know.
00:49:23
and I can't find a lot of information on it. Okay. So clearly not something horrible.
00:49:28
Yeah. Hit his fucking head. I mean, and then he went to a boys. I mean, it's like they go to juvie,
00:49:35
then they get raped. It's terrible. And their mom, like, I don't want to get as gross as I feel like it.
00:49:42
I mean, we really could say the worst things in the world and be right. Okay. The following,
00:49:49
I want to say it, but it's so horrifying that like I say it. And then Stephen will bleep it.
00:49:54
Okay. I read somewhere and maybe it was Ted Bundy's mom or some like some killer's mom that like
00:50:00
when he, she would take him to go to the bathroom, she would pinch his penis as a kid.
00:50:06
I think that's Ed Gein. Is that Ed Gein? So he wouldn't go? I don't know. To like, if he didn't do it, he, she would get mad at him and pinch.
00:50:14
And it's like, how do you not get, have a sexual fucking sadist on your hands? Yes.
00:50:19
On your gross hands. on your filthy disgusting hand no that's horrifying penis pinching hands i'm pretty
00:50:25
sure that's ed gaines mother she was out of her yeah that's right didn't he killed her right uh
00:50:31
no she died of natural causes he kept her in the house and played with her body and then
00:50:37
like wore her face in the moonlight pretty sure sorry steven that's romantic well shit nipple belt yeah so unbleep now okay yeah nipple belt is that him yeah
00:50:51
That's our guy. Should we give a shout out to the girl who? Fuck, man. We're going to need to post this.
00:50:56
But we got this gift once. And it was a box. And there were this crochet belt in it.
00:51:02
And we were like, OK. All right. We are yarn crochet belt. Was that in Oakland? I think it was the Oakland show.
00:51:07
No, no. It was sent here. Oh, sent. OK. Because then you guys left. And I went to take a photo of it.
00:51:13
And as I'm looking through the lens, I realize that it's a crocheted nipple belt.
00:51:18
and it's like every different color nipples like different races of nipples and it's and i just
00:51:25
lost my mind in like joy of like how creative like that's the description of murderinos is like
00:51:32
our listeners is someone crocheted a fucking multicultural nipple belt a nipple belt giving
00:51:38
ed game that shout out also the the fact that you had to have that realization alone it's actually
00:51:44
almost perfect yeah it's that like growing horror horror we were we pulled that thing out we're like
00:51:51
is it a is it a cat toy like we were just like whipping it around we had no idea and then i it
00:51:57
just made me so happy when i realized how awful it was in the cutest way yeah because you couldn't
00:52:03
tell you had to it was like a magic eye poster you really had to stare at it for a while to
00:52:07
understand the hideous dolphin. I got to post it. Okay. Anyway, the following year,
00:52:14
Joseph Duncan is arrested for driving a stolen car. And that's when he's sentenced as a juvenile
00:52:19
and sent to Dislin's Boys Ranch in Tacoma, which you know, is probably a hellhole nightmare. And
00:52:28
he tells his therapist when he's there that he had bound and sexually assaulted six boys. And he also
00:52:36
tells the therapist that he had raped around 13 younger boys by the time he was 16. What the fuck?
00:52:41
Yeah. So he's a serial rapist. Yeah. Can you imagine losing count? He said around 13 boys.
00:52:48
What does that therapist fucking go home that night and drink? They're just like,
00:52:53
now I become a sea captain. I'm done with this bullshit. I'm going to be a librarian now.
00:52:58
To the lighthouse, he said. Goodbye. I'm going to get a cat. You know, You know, maybe just a ton of cats, like 30 cats.
00:53:05
Just pet them. Just surround myself with cats. In 1980, still in Tacoma, he steals guns from a neighbor and abducts a 14-year-old boy.
00:53:15
Again, rapes him at gunpoint. And for that, he's sentenced to 20 years in prison, but he's released on parole in 94 after serving 14 years.
00:53:25
Then he's arrested in 96 for marijuana use, but he's released on parole a few weeks later.
00:53:32
but with new restrictions. And then in 97, he's around 34, he's arrested in Kansas
00:53:40
and returned to prison after violating the terms of his parole, but he's released from prison
00:53:45
three years later in July 2000 with time off for good old good behavior. Good old good behavior
00:53:50
for the serial rapists of children. Yeah, be good in prison, clean your fucking tray at the canteen at mess hall and you can leave uh so that okay so in the summer of 2014 he accused of molesting a six boy at a park in detroit lake minnesota but he not
00:54:09
captured until march of 2005 and he's held on fifteen thousand dollars bond so there's a dude
00:54:14
who's a businessman from fargo who somehow duncan had become acquainted with who helped him post
00:54:20
bail huh fifteen thousand dollars i wonder what brand of pedophile he was allegedly allegedly
00:54:26
businessman yeah yeah i mean very allegedly yeah and and if he wasn't he must fucking hate himself
00:54:32
now true what if he was just trying to be like a good samaritan yeah he was a guy down on his luck
00:54:38
oh he says he didn't he said he didn't molest a six-year-old boy at a park so maybe he didn't
00:54:45
and I'm going to spend half of some people's salary or getting out. Anyways, Duncan skips town.
00:54:52
Okay. Two months later in 2005, uh, Kootenai County, Idaho authorities discover the bodies of Brenda grown 40,
00:55:01
her boyfriend and her 13 year old son. They're in their family home near Coeur d'Alene and they've been bound and
00:55:09
died of blunt force trauma to the head. Wow. Um, and Brenda's two other children, Shasta, who's eight, and Dylan, who's nine.
00:55:19
I know. Oh, my God. I hate this one so much. I know. It's so horrible. Okay. I know.
00:55:24
I almost didn't do it because it's so bad. I know you have to do some of the shit out, but I didn't know that this guy had so much
00:55:31
background to him. I didn't, but it makes perfect sense. Of course he does, but oh, my God.
00:55:37
Oh, my God. Yeah. It's just one of those stories that you can't fucking believe is real.
00:55:42
Yes. I can still see the TV when I was watching the news and them showing the CCTV or whatever foot.
00:55:52
Okay. Yes. I totally know what you're going to say, but you're going to give away the ending.
00:55:55
Tell your story. I'm so sorry. I saw it too. It just burned in my mind. Yeah. Okay. So Shasta is eight. Dylan is nine. They're missing from the house. And the three
00:56:06
others, the three older people are dead. And so they issue an Amber Alert and they comb the area
00:56:12
and they can't find the kids. Until six weeks later in July 2005, Shasta is recognized from her Amber
00:56:20
Alert by a waitress, a manager and two customers at a Denny's but then they're back in
00:56:26
Coeur d'Alene. Coeur d'Alene, is that how you say it? Coeur d'Alene. The workers freak the fuck out,
00:56:32
immediately phone the police and they position themselves to prevent Duncan from leaving. Police officers arrive at the restaurant,
00:56:39
they arrest Duncan without incident, and Shasta's taken to the hospital to be reunited with her dad.
00:56:44
And so the footage we're talking about is them walking into the fucking Denny's,
00:56:48
and she's got her arms crossed. She's like this little blonde girl. He's this creep who looks like
00:56:52
John Mendelsohn, Ben Mendelsohn. And she's got her arms crossed, and it's clear something is wrong.
00:56:59
Yes. And you wonder if you had seen that, would you have thought something was going on too?
00:57:03
They must have because that many people. I remember reading about the waitress coming to the table and being like, I don't like the feel here.
00:57:11
Are you okay? Yeah. What's going on? And I think she waited. Did he go to the bathroom?
00:57:16
Maybe. There was some moment she had with Shasta, I believe, where she was like, this isn't good.
00:57:23
And she called the police. Well, what's so weird about it is, I have to wonder, they went back to the town they were from.
00:57:29
So everyone in that town must have known intimately what both what well, maybe they didn't know who he was yet, but what she looked like.
00:57:37
Yes. So there was another sighting of them, you know, in another state that they later realized happened.
00:57:44
And the woman who worked at the store, it was like a gas station, was like, I thought it might be her, but I wasn't sure.
00:57:50
So I didn't do anything about it. And it's like, well, someone in your town would have done something.
00:57:55
And it also tells you, like, if you have a bad feeling about something, don't worry about hurting the dad's fucking feelings.
00:58:01
If this child looks in distress. At least talk to one other person about it. Yeah.
00:58:07
If you don't send up every red flag you ever feel with bad feelings. But there's definitely, if you're in tune enough, when you know something's wrong, you know it's wrong and trust yourself.
00:58:19
I've always thought that like, if I see a kid who looks uncomfortable or in distress or not,
00:58:26
not feeling like they're where they're supposed to be, it's okay for me to go up to a kid and be
00:58:31
like, Hey, what's your name? You know, like engage with the kid. You know, I'm not a fucking dude,
00:58:36
so it's not creepy, but like, like, don't do that. If you're a guy, tell a woman to do that. But
00:58:42
you know, to be like, what's your name? And if you fucking sense something is wrong,
00:58:45
like you can just tell by body language with a kid. Yeah. Something isn't right.
00:58:49
I mean, there should be, yeah, I wish there was some kind of like set process or keyword,
00:58:55
you know, whatever. Listen, write down everyone's license plate. Every creepy dude's license plate at all times.
00:59:03
Just take the time. You don't need to work. Quit your job. Get a spiral notebook.
00:59:08
Sit in front of a gas station. And just write down license plates for a while. Yeah, done.
00:59:13
But I adore that Denny's waitress. Oh my God. I just, because you know that first of all, if they work, she's probably working the night
00:59:19
she's seen some looney tunes totally you know she doesn't call the cops every time she sees a
00:59:24
scraggly no mendelssohn type no we shouldn't involve that actor at all the poor guy he's like
00:59:31
wait what the fuck fuck you guys no we just got him fucking cast on the lifetime movie of this
00:59:36
motherfucking case you're welcome ben mendelssohn we're creating work you're welcome hospital all
00:59:43
right here get here's where it gets awful so shasta tells investigators that the night of her
00:59:48
abduction her mother had called her into the living room from the bedroom where she had been
00:59:52
sleeping and she saw Duncan like the Duncan was like call your kids in here right now she sees Duncan wearing black gloves and holding a gun He ties her mother hands with nylon zip ties as well as the mother fianc and her brother Slade
01:00:08
Then he takes Dylan, Shasta, and her little brother Dylan out of the house. They get inside his stolen rental car, and then Duncan goes back into the house.
01:00:18
She hears her mother's fiancé scream and then sees her injured older brother staggering away from the entrance to the home.
01:00:25
But she didn't witness Duncan bludgeoning the three of them to death. He bludgeoned them to death?
01:00:32
Tied them up and bludgeoned them. Fuck. When Shasta's asked where her brother Dylan is, she said,
01:00:37
In heaven. There may be some evidence down in the Lolo Forest because that's where we were.
01:00:43
What does that mean? On July 4th, 2005, Dylan's remains were discovered at a campsite near St. Regis, Montana.
01:00:51
He'd been sexually assaulted and then killed with a shot in the head, after which his body had been burned.
01:00:57
And Shasta fucking witnessed the whole thing. Oh, God. I know. Duncan had also filmed Dylan's final hours.
01:01:05
And Duncan can be audibly heard in the video, which was shown to the fucking jury.
01:01:09
Can you fucking imagine how much therapy you need after that? Oh, my God. Saying the devil likes to watch children suffer and cry.
01:01:16
Shasta is also repeatedly tortured and sexually assaulted. but supposedly he falls in love with her and decides to return her home,
01:01:23
which is why they were back in her town. What a monster monster. Yeah. Duncan later confesses that he had entered the home while the family slept
01:01:33
with the express intention of murdering the parents and kidnapping the children.
01:01:37
He claims he quote, wanted he wanted quote revenge against society for sending him to prison for
01:01:43
20 years for sexually assaulting a younger boy who was 14 years old when he himself was only 16 year old.
01:01:48
So he wants revenge against society for being sent to prison for sexually assaulting.
01:01:53
For being a rapist. Yep. Yeah, that's not clear thinking. No. It's not logical thinking.
01:01:58
You're not taking responsibility for your actions. You're not fucking. You're not cool.
01:02:03
You're. Dugson. You're the devil. You're the devil. You're the devil's like, dude, calm down.
01:02:11
Fuck. Can you skip to the part where he gets murdered in jail? Please tell me. The devil's like, hey, man, I hurt fucking corrupt attorneys, not...
01:02:21
Yeah. Sorry, corrupt attorneys. Sorry, corrupt attorneys. So he's subsequently charged with murdering Dylan as well as the three other family members.
01:02:31
During his incarceration, authorities are able to link Duncan to the disappearance of Anthony Michael Martinez,
01:02:38
who was 10 years old when he went missing on April 4th, 97, while he was playing with friends in the front yard of his home in Beaumont, California.
01:02:47
Fuck. A man approached the group, asked for help finding a missing kitten while holding out a photo of a cat as well as a dollar bill.
01:02:55
And two of the children ran away in fear, and the kidnapper pulls a knife out, grabs Anthony,
01:03:02
and flees in a white car with red pinstripes and no hug caps. After two weeks search, Martinez's body is found nude and partially decomposed in Indio on April 19th, 97.
01:03:16
He had been sexually assaulted and bound with duct tape. A composite sketch is made of the suspect and a partial fingerprint, but the case goes cold.
01:03:27
And then when he is incarcerated, Riverside authorities are able to match the partial fingerprint taken to Duncan.
01:03:34
And so they officially announce his connection. He pleads guilty in 2011. The plea agreement carries a mandatory life sentence, although he won't get he won't get the death penalty for it in California because he pleads guilty.
01:03:50
uh he duncan also confessed to two additional murders samizha white 11 and her sister carmen
01:03:57
cubias 9 who were last seen leaving a seattle washington hotel to get cigarettes at a nearby
01:04:05
restaurant for an older brother oh no i know babies police said that they don't they don't
01:04:12
know whether the girls ran away or victims of foul play at the time of course a fucking nine
01:04:16
year old is running away and 11 year old um then on july 6 96 that happened on july 6 96 then their
01:04:25
remains were found on february 10th 1998 in bothell washington uh by a transient living in an abandoned
01:04:33
barn all three murders occurred while duncan was on parole of those murders duncan has only been
01:04:40
charged in the california case in all he's been convicted in ohio for kidnapping and murder of the
01:04:45
three victims for which he was giving six life sentences in federal court for kidnapping Shasta and Dylan.
01:04:51
And for murdering Dylan, he was given three death sentences and three life sentences.
01:04:56
And in the state of California for kidnapping, murdering Anthony Martinez for which he was given two life sentences.
01:05:03
Is he still in jail? He's still in jail. He will be forever. Let me double check really quickly if he's still alive.
01:05:09
Yeah, because he's still alive. How? Unless they are keeping him in solitary confinement.
01:05:15
Has he not been killed? How has he not been killed by inmates? That's like that.
01:05:20
He is exactly the example of a jailhouse justice type of situation. Look, want to see his picture?
01:05:26
No. Oh God. Steven, you better watch that mustache because we are looking at a serious.
01:05:37
I'm doubting the mustache. Yeah. Although murdering has gotten me a mustache switchblade.
01:05:44
Oh, yeah. Okay. I can keep it in check. Okay. Good. Yes, please do. Yeah. He's the worst face.
01:05:50
Not only is he still alive, he's blogging from prison. Will Ferrell Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Bombs So I Leanne Yeah This is my best friend Janet Hey And we have been joined at the hip since high school
01:06:05
A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
01:06:10
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
01:06:15
With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
01:06:21
Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:06:28
I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
01:06:37
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking, what the bleep is going on?
01:06:44
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
01:06:49
I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
01:06:56
The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
01:07:02
Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:07:09
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.
01:07:16
A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
01:07:23
I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
01:07:33
It may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:07:44
Fuck. Well, so he blog, he has a blog called the fifth nail. And it's something about how like Jesus was crucified with four nails.
01:07:52
And this is the fifth nail. Some bullshit. Oh, I know all about that fifth nail.
01:07:55
Do you? And so he can't blog from prison, but he blogs about his day to day life as a sex offender.
01:08:03
But so he denies being a pedophile. But so he sends his blog post in writing to people on the outside who post it.
01:08:11
And like there's some people out there doing his fucking bidding. Probably. pedophiles right probably other pedophiles yeah perhaps well either way you shouldn't you should
01:08:21
you're no good downright fucking piece of shit it's so funny that case that little girl and the
01:08:30
thing she went through people i feel like anybody that was like conscious around that time paid
01:08:37
attention to anything around that time it also because it was early enough so that there wasn't
01:08:43
Like nowadays, there's so much awful shit going on, as we know, everywhere all the time.
01:08:50
They're closing down nature. They're closing down schools. They're closing down protecting people who need protection.
01:08:57
They're closing it all down. It's insanity. It happens every day. But there was a time, and I used to think about it a lot in the 90s, where we had it.
01:09:04
We were just like fat cats. There was nothing going on. It was before we got into that first war.
01:09:10
Clinton. It was Clinton. No, he was a piece of shit, too. It was the Clinton days.
01:09:14
Yeah. It may have been later than that. But still, it was like there wasn't. So when something like that came on the news, it was heart-stopping.
01:09:22
It was like, you've got to be kidding me. How did this happen? No, I mean, even in just the last couple of years, we hear about every single one of them,
01:09:32
especially when you're into fucking true crime. Yeah. I'm just constantly reading about these things, and we're just constantly looking at.
01:09:39
But back then it was harder to find those things and the detail that you can get now and the photos.
01:09:46
And so it was just this glimpse that you would get. Yeah. Horrible. Yeah. God, that's.
01:09:52
Yeah. Sorry. So that's. No, I mean, that's like that was a big one. And it's interesting to know that that was a person that started doing that.
01:09:59
That was a that was an internally and intensely damaged individual that like started pretty bad and it got way, way, way worse.
01:10:09
Right. Somewhere along the way, you know, there could have been intervention or just something different could have happened.
01:10:17
I think it's when eventually, hopefully, people start taking rape as a crime more seriously as a real as as something that this isn't something to have your hands slapped and walked away from.
01:10:31
And that a lot of people that do it, do it over and over again and intend to do it over and over again.
01:10:38
That's a serious problem with a person. And it's not, I feel like there's a lot of people who just think rape is someone who wants to have sex really bad.
01:10:47
A rapist is someone who's just looking for sex. If you think about it in a way which it actually is, which is this fucking violent, insane mind who needs to overpower and hurt and fucking ruin someone, that is a criminal who should not be allowed on the streets after three years of good behavior in prison.
01:11:07
And how often do they escalate? I mean, how many stories do we tell that start off with a person doing it?
01:11:12
She, he raped a girl in his town and then da da da. And then he moved to this town and then suddenly he's murdering the people he's raping.
01:11:19
I mean, it's, it's the story every time. Yeah. I feel like it's going to catch up slowly as long as we don't keep, well, I mean, I feel
01:11:27
like the more people who talk about it, the more people who have conversations, but also
01:11:32
the more like the Brock Turner. I was just thinking, that's what I was thinking about.
01:11:37
Yeah. that uh the swimmer from sanford who got released because you know nobody wanted to mess up his
01:11:44
swimming career and he raped a girl so so violently um who i think he drugged i think
01:11:51
i don't know if that ever came out like to be the truth but that's the theory she was
01:11:56
incapacitated she was incapacitated she and when she told the story it's like at a party and all of a sudden she's waking up behind a dumpster and the two men who witnessed
01:12:05
it were so upset. The two men, grown men were crying and so upset of what they witnessed.
01:12:13
That's not something that you go, okay, well don't do this anymore. Who would do that in the first?
01:12:17
It's like, we have to start treating it and talking about it as the extremely violent criminal
01:12:23
act that it is. And also stop fucking using the phrase sexual assault. I was using euphemisms.
01:12:30
If it's rape, it's rape. Some people say, like, you know, sexual assault, it's not sex.
01:12:35
Don't use the word sex when it's just rape. Unconsensual sex is rape. That's right.
01:12:43
Sex is between two consenting adults. So don't fucking call it that. Also, date rape is rape.
01:12:48
Date rape is rape. That doesn't mean it's just nice and chill rape. Nope. It's rape.
01:12:54
Also, it wasn't a pre-agreement that that agreement got broken, which is what date rape alludes to.
01:12:59
Right. That's bullshit. You went on a date. What did you? Someone got upset. Yeah.
01:13:04
No, this person is a rapist. Yeah. You don't rape people unless you're a rapist.
01:13:08
Don't rape people. Oh, man. I mean, I think we're coming down pretty hard on an anti-rape stance.
01:13:16
I think it's clear that we're anti-rape. And we're saying it to our listeners as if we have to convince them of anything.
01:13:24
You guys, stop it. Stop it. we're like yes to fucking crocheted nipple belts no to rape just know where we stand we're gonna
01:13:34
tell you how it works there's no gray area oh man all right i hope you guys enjoyed that one
01:13:41
and as a little update because georgia told that story a few years ago uh that man is now passed on
01:13:48
so we have one less horrific serial killer out in the world so just some information for you guys in case you were going to look him up and see what he up to now He dead And now for a little bonus I actually did a hometown murder And I have to say this speaks to the popularity
01:14:07
of this podcast, because I have not to brag, been on television. I have guested on many podcasts.
01:14:13
I have done a lot of fun things. I have never gotten so many messages from people that I have
01:14:18
not spoken to since high school, as I did when I appeared on episode 16 of My Favorite Murder,
01:14:23
doing my hometown murder. People really love this podcast, myself included. So as a special
01:14:30
little bonus treat, we're going to play my hometown murder for episode 16. Okay, so this is not quite
01:14:35
a hometown thing, but I did go to college an hour and 15 minutes from my hometown in Connecticut,
01:14:40
and I went to college with a girl whose husband mysteriously disappeared from their honeymoon cruise.
01:14:46
They were on this cruise together, and I think the saddest part of the story usually
01:14:53
when I tell it is that if they hadn't gotten so blacked out, balls to the wall wasted, this probably never would have happened
01:15:00
because they got really drunk. They separated. They were rumorous. They were like
01:15:05
hanging out with these Czech teenagers or something like that. I don't know what they
01:15:09
were doing, probably just partying with them. And they got separated and another girl on the boat took a picture of a huge
01:15:17
blood splatter stain on the deck of the ship, which is on this big dateline. There's a whole dateline report on this. And, uh, and so it was
01:15:28
obviously something happened, but his body was never recovered. They're in the middle of, I
01:15:32
believe the Caribbean or the Mediterranean, like obviously he was shark bait. Like they probably
01:15:35
weren't going to find anything, but, um, she was, you know, on the talk show circuit with like Oprah
01:15:42
and like Scarborough country and all these shows. And I think people found that she did not appear
01:15:48
to be a sympathetic enough wife. Like she wasn't bawling, crying. She wasn't, people thought
01:15:54
maybe she married him for, you know, it's like everybody's imagination takes off But like I don think he had a ton of money to speak of So it wasn like an insurance killing that I don really actually knowing her I really don think she had anything
01:16:07
to do with, um, this disappearance slash murder. Um, but it was pretty scandalous. And I was
01:16:15
actually on Dateline when they, when they were investigating it, I was working at NBC.
01:16:21
One of my friends worked at Dateline and was like, does anybody here go to this college?
01:16:25
and I was like, oh, I went there. And they were like, do you know this girl whose husband disappeared?
01:16:29
I was like, yeah, we played softball together. She was like, oh my God, they really want to
01:16:32
interview you on daily. I was like, okay. Like, do I get to be on TV? I'm in. Like I was all in.
01:16:37
And then I went on and I just sort of talked generally about her. And it was so embarrassing
01:16:44
because first of all, I thought they were going to do my hair and makeup. They don't do that.
01:16:46
And second of all, they like took a bunch of B-roll of me, like walking downstairs slowly.
01:16:51
and they took an old picture of me and my softball team that this girl is in where my eyes are closed and I'm maybe the fattest I've ever been in my entire life.
01:16:59
And I was like, just don't focus on my face. And Dateline was like, oh, we're going to focus on your face.
01:17:03
And they went right to my face and then went to her face. So, you know, I wasn't super happy with Dateline's production,
01:17:10
but it was a really, it's a really crazy sort of unsolved case that is also interesting
01:17:18
because his parents and I believe Jen, the girl he was married to, who I knew, were going, trying to take on the cruise line because those, I don't know anyone that's been
01:17:28
on a cruise, like there's cameras everywhere. And they acted like they had nothing on tape of like
01:17:33
where this guy was or what happened or anything. Like how did this blood bladder stain get like
01:17:38
this? It was a huge stain on the deck and it's just very scandalous that they won't like kind
01:17:45
of let this information out because people think they're scared about getting sued or whatever.
01:17:48
so I know that they made a lifetime movie about it I know there's a dateline about it you can
01:17:51
search into it more uh the dateline if you want to google Kara Clank and few clues found in
01:17:57
honeymoon disappearance will take you right to the link because it a very scary google result for myself Well and that was my hometown murder I hope you guys enjoyed that Thank you guys for listening
01:18:09
I'm Kara Clank again, the host of That's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, along with my co-host,
01:18:16
the hilarious Lisa Traeger. Our podcast comes out every Tuesday on Exactly Right.
01:18:21
And give us a listen if you're so inclined. And before I leave, I just want to tell you,
01:18:26
stay sexy and do not get murdered Elvis do you want a cookie? Hey it's us the Jonas Brothers
01:18:33
and guess what we have some big news huge news we created our own podcast called
01:18:38
Hey Jonas how do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas guys I honestly don't remember
01:18:43
we were talking about a fit for the podcast where people could call in and say Hey Jonas
01:18:47
and then I wrote down on my little notepad Hey Jonas and offered it up as a potential title
01:18:52
for the podcast but thanks for remembering that guys Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:19:00
Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
01:19:06
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
01:19:16
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
01:19:22
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:19:33
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
01:19:38
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
01:19:45
It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.
01:19:53
This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app,
01:19:59
search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.