00:00:00
This is exactly right. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:34
Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms.
00:00:40
So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:00:45
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
00:00:51
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
00:00:56
With all the snacks and drinks. drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
00:01:02
Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:01:06
or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley
00:01:12
Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State
00:01:18
Security, one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story
00:01:24
of the inner workings of the MSS and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets.
00:01:31
Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:38
Hello, and welcome to my favorite murder. I've always wanted to say that. Hey guys, it's Kyle Russell,
00:01:48
otherwise known as the lip sync assassin Kiki with Kiki from TikTok and Instagram.
00:01:52
Y'all, I can't tell you how excited I am to be jumping in with the MFM and the Exactly Right Network's guest host picks series, which
00:02:02
is kind of a tongue twister. I think, as with most of us listeners, my MFM obsession started
00:02:11
with a cautious listen. You know, the kind where you're not really sure if you're ready
00:02:15
to purchase, you're just trying it out for size. But I've been hearing great things about
00:02:19
the podcast. So I decided to give it a listen. And thank goodness there were 12 episodes to
00:02:24
bench because I was hooked. Not just because I'm a true crime junkie, but because of our queen's
00:02:30
razor sharp humor and ability to make you instantly feel like you're part of the family.
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And then the lip syncs happened. I started doing the lip syncs because I kept hearing people on
00:02:41
TikTok lip syncing to their favorite comedic scenes. And then the light bulb just went off.
00:02:46
At first, I was only going to do duet versions where another person would play the opposite,
00:02:51
at Karen or Georgia, but then I realized there were parts from each person's scene that were
00:02:56
just as hilarious the other. So I started doing both and the Red Cap Georgia was born.
00:03:02
So truly from the bottom of my heart, thank you all for indulging my silliness. All right, everyone. So this week, I'm taking us all the way back to 2017 with episode 90,
00:03:30
Peak Experience. Now, this one really sticks with me because of my love of scary movies and stories.
00:03:35
So someone get Ed and Lorraine Warren on the horn because we're talking about the Amityville
00:03:41
horror murders. I've seen all the adaptations of this movie. And let me tell you, nothing scares
00:03:48
me like possession because it's totally in the realm of maybe kind of sorter could happen.
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Possibly. We just don't know. Demons and ghosts aside, it was awesome to hear the facts about the
00:04:01
DeFeo case without the supernatural Hollywood veneer we see on film. But the facts are still
00:04:09
just as terrifying. So here's Georgia telling us the tale of the Amityville horror DeFeo murders.
00:04:16
are you first or am I first? I think it's you, Susan. I think it's me too. Oh, yeah.
00:04:23
Are we counting that? Yeah. We're counting what happens to us. We're counting what we decide.
00:04:31
And I'm going to go first. All right. Have a peak experience with this one. All right.
00:04:36
It's October. Everyone's favorite month. It's fucking Halloween time. Listen, let's do this.
00:04:44
It's like you're giving me a sales pitch in a voice that says, I'm not interested. I'm not interested in working with you.
00:04:49
Well, I did this murder because I wanted to do it. And then I realized I could fucking
00:04:53
tag it on to the fact that it's Halloween time. Oh, yeah. But it's very loose. Okay.
00:04:59
So I don't, I'm not, I'm not married to it. You know what I mean? Got it. And I also watched this,
00:05:05
the way I actually did think of doing this is I watched this movie on Netflix, like a Netflix
00:05:10
movie that I had heard nothing about called Little Evil that ended up being so fucking
00:05:15
good. Oh, good. It's basically if the kid from like if Satan's spawn, the spawn of Satan had a mother and
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the mother was Evangeline Lilly and she married a man who became the spawn of Satan's step
00:05:32
dad. And it is Adam Scott. Oh, and it's so charming and so cute and funny. I don't know how this just like went under the radar and Bridget Everett is like his sidekick.
00:05:43
Wow. It's such a charming movie. So it's like it's it's like comedy. It's a dark comedy.
00:05:48
That's awesome. It's so good. So please go watch it. And then I thought, oh, that's fun.
00:05:53
So here is Here the story the real story behind the amityville horror yes you ready for this okay just really quick and i know i said this a thousand times the hardback cup the hardback book
00:06:12
of the amityville horror so it's shaped like a paperback but it had a hard white cover huh was
00:06:18
the book in my grammar school library that i checked out so many times sister reader rose
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got mad at me. I forgot that it was that book. And now I feel like I've stolen a murder from you.
00:06:27
You have not. Okay. And I celebrate this and I'm thrilled. Okay. I want to tell baby Karen,
00:06:33
a little Karen about this story. Well, she's right here. Well, I'm going to tell her right now. No,
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I don't want you to. That's what she's like. All right. So of course, everyone knows about
00:06:45
the Amityville horror, the movie, it's this haunted house. It's like, you know, inhabited
00:06:52
by Satan and all this bullshit. But I don't know, people maybe don't know that it's actually
00:06:57
based on an actual story that happened before the haunting. That's right. I was a huge fan of the book. Me and Sister Rita Rose. What I loved about
00:07:07
the book is the fact, or this story, whether or not it's true, is it starts out as, oh,
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they find out this horrible thing happened in their house, but then they find out that there's something else going on.
00:07:18
So they, but that could completely be for like the book and movie. Who knows if that part is real.
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I'll fucking tell you. Sweet. Yeah. Here we go. Yeah. All right. So the family, the DeFeo family,
00:07:29
they consist of Ronald DeFeo, senior, he's 44 and his wife, Louise, 42. Ronald is a car salesman at the family dealership.
00:07:38
Super fucking successful. Mob ties. Maybe. Probably. Pretty much definitely. I mean, don't all Italians have mob ties?
00:07:46
Oh, my God. Oh, no. She just defended a quarter of our listeners. How dare you? So the random fucking car dealership is doing so well in Brooklyn that the DeFeo family is able to move from their apartment in Brooklyn to a three-story colonial in the charming town of Amityville on Long Island, about an hour outside of the city.
00:08:11
Do the whole thing in that voice. Okay. I was trying to be a real estate agent. Oh, that's fun.
00:08:18
That's why you put that neckerchief on. And bake some cookies. Yep. All right. They chose this home.
00:08:27
And as you saw on the cover of the Amityville book, it's a piece of Americana, two stories, plus an addict.
00:08:33
It's huge and sprawling. There's a boathouse right on the Amityville River. And out front, they put a sign post that says,
00:08:40
high hopes basically naming the house so it's this gorgeous huge colonial house that has eyes it has it looks like it has eyes because it has these two windows up in the attic
00:08:52
that look like eyes yeah so the oldest of the de feo children is ronald butch de feo jr he's born
00:09:02
on September 26, 1951. Ronald Sr., the dad, is a domineering man. He would fucking pick fights
00:09:10
with his wife and children. He was physically abusive. And the target of a lot of this abuse
00:09:16
was Ronald Jr. I'm going to call him Butch. Partly because he was the eldest, so there's a lot of expectations on him.
00:09:22
And it's said that he would beat the shit out of him. He'd throw him against a wall
00:09:24
and hit his head. So there's the head injury aspect that we all know and love. So as Butch gets older,
00:09:31
he starts fighting back and he's also known as a bully at school. He's just like angry, mean kid.
00:09:40
Bullies get bullied. Bullies are bullies because they've been bullied. Exactly. So the parents, they try to take him to Butch to a psychiatrist.
00:09:52
He fucking refuses to go. And so instead they're like, let's just appease and placate him.
00:09:58
And they start buying him anything he wanted and giving him money. Like if that's their solution.
00:10:03
I bet it worked, right? I mean, you know what? The only way we would know if someone would do it to us.
00:10:08
That's what we should try it. That's all I'm saying. What a bizarre plan. I mean, like, cause I understand that they were rich, but that I feel like never in the
00:10:18
history of man has that worked. Oh, clearly it's never worked up. But I understand, especially back in the seventies, it's like, well, here's what we'll do.
00:10:26
If he's never unhappy, he's never going to get mad. Right. You know? Right. And so they start buying him a bunch of shit, including a $14,000 speedboat when he was 15.
00:10:38
$14,000 today would buy you a nice car back then. Can you imagine this? OK, so these people, something happened and they're swimming in money.
00:10:48
Why would the son, the son's owner of a car dealership in Brooklyn have that much fucking money?
00:10:56
I mean, quality salesman. Just he's really friendly and he's got a couple pinky rings, not just one like normal car salesman, but a couple.
00:11:04
Well, that's the other thing, too, is he looks like Tony Soprano. Yeah. He's got that big, bulky, you know, intimidating presence.
00:11:13
He's kind of, you know, he speaks like a Long Islander, which I will refuse to do.
00:11:19
Hey, the parkways over by my pocketbook. It's a lot of that kind of shit. Why is there a parkway by his pocketbook?
00:11:25
It's those are the two words that remind me of Long Island. Because my friend Vicki, I used to work with my friend Vicki, who is from Long Island.
00:11:32
And those are the first like two things I heard her say on like one of the first days that we worked at Ellen together.
00:11:37
Where I was like, where are you from? There's no such thing as a parkway out here.
00:11:43
Yeah. And pocketbooks, wallets. Stop it. Calm down. She also used to always say food shopping.
00:11:48
I'm going to go food shopping. Where I'm like, that's just shopping. You know, I don't care.
00:11:53
You have to specify. Yeah. No we get it It doesn matter I just got my food shopping done I just went shopping for food How about you don tell me about your fucking errands Yeah How about we all do it
00:12:05
Listen. I love you, Vicky. Italians, Vicky, and Long Islanders. Vicky Ernst. Apologies in advance.
00:12:14
Boop, boop, boop, bah. Okay. Of course, not surprisingly, it only made things worse.
00:12:20
And by 17, Butch had become an LSD and heroin user. Oh, which is like heroin in the 70s.
00:12:28
That's when it was really organic. It was just a gorgeous golden brown. It was like a pure trip.
00:12:34
I do feel like, though, people were so naive about drugs in the 70s. Like my friend Jerry had a story about doing, I think they called it windowpane, which is that intense acid from the 70s.
00:12:46
She said they were tripping for days. No. Every day they saw the whole world in a different color.
00:12:51
So the first day it was red and the second day was purple. And I was kind of cool, but I don't want that.
00:12:57
It sounds, it makes me sick to my stomach. No, I was thinking that too. It's just like, won't ever end.
00:13:01
And that was just like, because they walked home from school and a guy was like, Hey,
00:13:05
do you want to buy this acid? Oh, he loved it. He loved making them trip that hard.
00:13:09
Oh, fuck that. Crazy. Okay. Bop, bop, bop, bop, bop. I ate crayons as a joke once when I was on LSD.
00:13:15
Let's not talk about it. My friend and I were like, let's chew these crayons up and see what happens when we spit
00:13:22
them out. I bet it would be really pretty. Oh my God. Cut this immediately. Was it pretty?
00:13:26
It was gorgeous. I wore a vinyl dress to my own Christmas party and I was answering the door and people were
00:13:31
like, are you okay? And then I realized it was because I was so cold, my lips were blue, but I was like, this
00:13:37
outfit is amazing. I look like I'm from space. Hosting a party on acid, not a good idea.
00:13:43
Never, ever. Don't do drugs. Okay. Don't do drugs, everybody. Expelled from school as well.
00:13:49
So at 18, he's expelled from school and they're like, you know what? You know what will fix him?
00:13:52
let's give him a job at the family car dealership. Yes. Let's do that. There it is.
00:13:56
Let's not give him a lot of responsibilities and let's give him a large salary. Boom.
00:14:02
Sorry, you're reading me the Donald Trump story. What's happening? Ooh, political.
00:14:07
You better be careful. I liked them till they got political. This fucking mom. Okay.
00:14:14
So he's the boss's son asshole. That's coming in on a full salary, but doesn't have to do anything.
00:14:19
The boss's son, And then the boss is boss's grandson. Oh. And he's just like, pay me, motherfuckers.
00:14:27
How about you pay me? And he looks, and he's probably the original Brooklyn hipster.
00:14:33
He looks like this Brooklyn hipster. Sideburns? What more do you need? Sideburns, beard, like 70s garb, but it's because it's in the 70s.
00:14:42
Right. You know what I mean? It's not just like fucking bed bug used outfits from a thrift store.
00:14:48
Right. It's the real deal. it is real so okay um but but he's he uses the money the salary he makes to buy guns alcohol and
00:14:59
drugs and continues his shitty behavior which included runs with the law blah blah blah okay
00:15:05
once during a fight between his so his mom and dad were fighting meaning the dad was like
00:15:09
fucking bullying the mom butch points a 12 gauge shotgun at his father and pulls the trigger
00:15:15
the gun malfunctioned and didn't fucking shoot oh my god so this guy's out of his mind um so in the
00:15:23
weeks before the murder this thing happened where uh but it's 1974 butch is given the job of
00:15:29
depositing more than 20 grand in from the car dealership to the bank they're like go to the
00:15:35
bank deposit this use your boat use your boat which is like why are you giving this kid that
00:15:40
money and not surprisingly he reports that he had been robbed at gunpoint while he was waiting at a
00:15:45
red light but he had actually planned the mock robbery and at first the dad seemed to believe it
00:15:50
but when the police showed up to question him which is like stick with your story bro he fucking
00:15:55
loses his shit and is super pissed off and refuses to cooperate and then so his dad realizes something
00:16:01
isn't right and he thinks his son is up was up to it um and butch threatens to kill him
00:16:09
so to kill the dad again yeah now a week later cut to the early morning hours of november 13th
00:16:18
1974 the family is sleeping and butch goes around with a shotgun so the first shot
00:16:26
he goes into his parents room they're sleeping on their stomachs the first shot hits ronald senior
00:16:32
in the back, tearing through his kidney and exiting through his chest. He fired another round into his back, and it pierces his father's spine and lodged in
00:16:43
his neck. He's dead. Then he shoots his mother twice as well. It shatters her rib cage, collapses her right lung, and physical evidence shows that Louise's
00:16:55
mother was awake when she was shot. Like, she went to turn around to see what was going on.
00:16:59
They're both on their stomachs when they're found. Then Butch goes into his sweet baby brother's rooms, Mark, who's 12, and John Matthew, who's nine, and shoots them both while they're face down in their beds.
00:17:14
And then he ends by shooting his sisters point blank versus Allison, who's 13. And he shoots her in the face and then is young and she's killed instantly.
00:17:25
And then he turns on his sister, Dawn, who's 18, and shoots her in the head, blowing off the left side of her face.
00:17:33
So fucking brutal with a shotgun. So just after 3 a.m., in a span of less than 15 minutes, Ronald Butch DeFeo Jr. had brutally slain every member of his family.
00:17:45
They were all found lying on their stomachs in bed. Butch showers, trims his beard, gets dressed in jeans and work boots.
00:17:53
and then he collects his bloody clothing and the rifle wraps them up in a pillowcase and on his way to work he disposes of the pillowcase and everything in it by tossing them into a storm drain
00:18:06
I spelled that wrong. Tossing them into a storm drain. And that's where the clown from It was waiting?
00:18:13
That's the scariest thing I've ever heard in my life. Why did you say that? Well, that's what I think of when I think of storm drains.
00:18:19
Totally. That or that or JFK being killed because they arrested someone in a storm drain.
00:18:26
No. After it happened. No. Yeah. We'll get you know what? Maybe I'll do it one day.
00:18:30
Shit. I'd never heard that. Yeah. Every time I walk George, my dog, she if we walk, there's a storm drain that we always walk by.
00:18:39
And she always has to go and stick her head down in it. No. And every time I'm like, if that fucking clown from it is in there, I am going to lose it.
00:18:47
She's going to get her head chomped off by what? A clown. She loves it in there.
00:18:53
So many smells. I know. So many raccoons. Okay. Then tosses it in a storm drain.
00:19:00
Then goes to work at the car dealership at 6 a.m. Oh, all by himself? Yeah. Yeah.
00:19:07
Goes to work. At the family car dealership. At the family car dealership. And I think they were like, what are you doing here at 6 a.m.?
00:19:14
It's weird anyways. He's like, you know me, Butch, how much I love working and getting along with people.
00:19:18
Want to get an early start. Come on, I got my boots on. My jeans. My beard is trimmed.
00:19:24
So throughout the morning, he keeps saying, like, I don't know why my dad's not here yet.
00:19:28
So he keeps calling home. He leaves work around noon and he spends the day with his friends.
00:19:33
And to secure an alibi, he tells them that he couldn't seem to reach anyone at home to let them know that he's, like, trying.
00:19:41
And, hey, look, no one's answering. Yeah. He ends up at a bar real close in Amityville, real close to his house.
00:19:47
and then is like, hey, guys, I'm going to go check on my family. It's so weird that I haven't heard from them.
00:19:52
And then at 630 that night, he burst back into the bar and yells, you got to help me.
00:19:58
I think my mother and father are shot. So Butch and a small group of people from the bar went to the home
00:20:05
and they found the whole family dead in their beds. When the detectives questioned Butch about who could be a suspect in the murders,
00:20:12
He told them that he believed that a mafia hitman named Louis Fellini may have been responsible and that his whole family was like in with the mob and that they had wronged the Fellini family in some way and they were pissed off at him.
00:20:27
So he then gives them the alibi of I've been gone all day. And when I left the house this morning, my whole family was I think they were still alive.
00:20:36
So they the police take him into protective custody while they search for the suspect.
00:20:42
But when they searched the house, they found an empty box for a recently purchased .35 caliber Marlin gun.
00:20:49
It's for you gun people. In Butch's room. And when the timeline came together, it placed Butch at home at the time of the homicides, not after he left.
00:21:01
So when they question him, he begins to change the story. He says that Fellini had appeared at the house early that morning, put a revolver to his head and dragged him from room to room as they murdered his family.
00:21:14
Him and an accomplice murdered his family, making Butch watch. Then eventually under questioning, he broke down and confessed to killing his family, saying, once I started, I just couldn't stop.
00:21:25
It went so fast. on trial his defense lawyer william webber tried to prove that he was insane saying that he heard
00:21:34
demonic voices that told him to kill his family but the psychiatrist for the prosecution
00:21:38
proved that he suffered from antisocial personality disorder which doesn't mean you're crazy the
00:21:45
illness made him aware of his actions but motivated by a self-centered attitude and even at one point
00:21:51
during the trial, he threatened to kill both his own lawyer and the judge. They put him on, they put him on the stand.
00:21:59
It seems like that's his solution to a lot of problems is I'll kill you. Yeah. Yeah.
00:22:04
Which really, you know, as we're learning is not, is a non-solution. Yeah. It's this thing of like people pretending to be crazy to get, uh, the, the verdict of insane.
00:22:16
And it's like, no, you're just proving what a piece of shit you are. And you're also understanding that you need to plot this out.
00:22:23
So it makes you look sane because you understand reasoning and plotting. Yes. There's not the insanity part isn't there.
00:22:31
It's but you are clearly either a sociopath or just the most rotten, spoiled child of all time.
00:22:39
Like, is that where spoiling children can get you? Yeah. Because that should be a PSA.
00:22:44
All those kids that are fucking screaming out loud in restaurants. It's like, get a hold of it now.
00:22:49
Yeah. Or you're going to go the route of the Mr. Butch DeFeo. Amen. Or at least something close.
00:22:55
Or you're just annoying everyone else around you. And like, I'm trying to eat in peace.
00:23:01
Yeah. Just no screaming. How about the rule of no screaming? No screaming. And if your child is screaming, take them outside.
00:23:08
Or how about you glare at your child? No one wants you to hit them. No. But how about a good icy?
00:23:14
My father used to stop us in our tracks with the look on his face. Oh, my God. Like, you've gone too far.
00:23:19
Also, he was very large and intimidating. So I'm sure he only had to look at us.
00:23:24
We'll be like, and you just like sit exactly where you are. This is not going well.
00:23:29
Stop right now. Yeah. I love it. So on November 21st, 1975, the jury finds Butch guilty on six counts of second degree murder.
00:23:38
He's sentenced to six consecutive life sentences. But all these questions, and this is like one of the reasons why this murder is still big to this day.
00:23:45
and people still debate it when it's clear that he just this fucking crazy dude on acid and heroin,
00:23:50
who was a piece of shit, narcissistic asshole, just killed his entire family. There are things that are weird that make people question what really happened and think that.
00:24:00
It didn't happen that way. So one of them, which I totally understand and want to know the answers to,
00:24:06
is how did he shoot six people in four different rooms without any of them waking up or trying to escape?
00:24:13
Yeah. And they're all on their stomachs when they're shot. So no one turned over to be like, what the fuck was that?
00:24:19
Like they were drugged? Well, that's what I thought, too. Okay. No drugs in any other systems.
00:24:25
Really? Period. Oh. Yeah. and no neighbors heard the rifle blasts at all and this is a fucking rifle yeah the defense experts
00:24:33
conducted an experiment on the marlin rifle and i found that it's report report or report report
00:24:40
report report it's spelled report guys it's just a report its noise was so loud that it could be
00:24:49
heard almost a mile away it's a rifle yeah so how did none of the neighbors hear it and you can see
00:24:55
photos they weren't that far away the neighbors they were like literally next door i mean he must
00:25:00
have done i mean like then did he put rum in something i mean like he must have affected them
00:25:06
in some way right but how did the neighbors not hear it either oh oh like silencer no nothing no
00:25:13
there's no silencer there's no drugs in the system alcohol i doubt it either well but i mean could
00:25:18
there be a silencer that they didn't find i don't know yes i'm putting it out i'm gonna say yes i'm
00:25:24
Put it out there. Even though I don't know. Rightful silencer. It's probably Satan.
00:25:29
Could be Satan. Yeah. It is weird. Everybody's sleeping on their stomachs. Yeah, that's weird.
00:25:34
Why isn't one person sleeping on their side? Right. Like a normal human being. Or did he, you know, there's this, the obvious answer to me is that he went from room to room
00:25:42
and was like, stay down. There's someone in the house. And like, warn them that, like, don't move.
00:25:49
I'm going to protect you. Maybe. But then why wouldn't the dad get up? And then why would the neighbors hear the dad first?
00:25:56
He went and killed the dad and the mom, went into the kids room. I was like, you guys stay in here.
00:26:00
Something's something's happening. Oh, that's fucked. OK, stay on your. Why stay on your stomach?
00:26:06
Stay on your stomach because I'm weird. You know what else? He could have walked in the room and they were sitting up and he said, lay down on your stomach
00:26:12
and then shot them because he didn't want to see their faces when he killed them.
00:26:16
True. But he shot one of his sisters in the face. He did. Maybe he was particularly hateful of that.
00:26:22
Maybe. Maybe. Which is, it is a thing that they fought a lot too. Dawn, the older sister who was 18.
00:26:27
Well, but then there's also the, oh, sorry, are you doing more theories? Which one are you going to do?
00:26:31
The theory that Dawn was his co-conspirator and she shot people. Let's go to that one.
00:26:36
Okay. Let's go to the tapes. So years, it wasn't until years later though, that Ronnie changed his story again while he
00:26:43
was in prison and said that his sister Dawn was involved in the murders. Now listen, Ronnie makes up so many stories that you just, they're all bullshit.
00:26:52
They're all bullshit, but here they are. That she had actually planned the murders with him to kill their parents after they had a huge fight with them.
00:27:01
But they had no plans to kill the siblings. And then so she went to kill the parents.
00:27:08
And when he found out, Ronnie found out that Donna had also killed the kids, she was so pissed off.
00:27:13
He was so pissed off. She had wanted to eliminate them as witnesses that he wrestled the gun from her and shot her in the head himself.
00:27:22
so the only person he was guilty of killing was this murderer his sister i mean that sounds like
00:27:28
absolute bullshit absolutely okay yeah i mean it's just it sucks that we can't get any information
00:27:35
about what their home life was really like from anyone but de feo and secondhand you know boyfriends
00:27:42
and friends saying what it was like but from all their accounts it wasn't good yeah so who knows
00:27:47
he um and then it was reported during the original police investigation that traces of gunpowder were
00:27:53
found on don's nightgown indicating that she may have fired a weapon but i guess it's also proven
00:28:00
that if someone shoots you at close range you can get that as well yeah then he claims that his
00:28:04
sister don shot his father then says a dist their mother distraught over that shot don and her three
00:28:15
youngest kids so that the mother that don killed the dad the mother killed don don and the other
00:28:21
three youngest children then shot herself and then when when butch found out he flies into a rage
00:28:29
and fired one bullet at his wounded mother who had just shot himself so the only person he shot
00:28:37
was the like it's just but all that happens way later he said he makes these stories up later
00:28:44
No, no, I get it. I'm saying like the reason that doesn't fly is because of the laying down on the stomach
00:28:50
thing. Yeah. Like all, you can't have that kind of chaos and then everyone end up in the same position.
00:28:55
I mean, it's just like such a far fetched theory. It's stupid. Like to believe it is idiotic, especially with only the fucking testimony of a fucking
00:29:06
crazy person who's trying to get himself away from any responsibility of what happened.
00:29:10
Yeah. It almost sounds like somebody, he like was sitting in jail bored and he's like, maybe
00:29:15
they'll listen to me if I just make up a new story. Totally. Totally. So in 1975, let's get to the fucking haunting shit real quick.
00:29:23
Also total bullshit. In 1975. Now we're in a fight. Karen the Catholic. This is my favorite story.
00:29:33
You can't say it's bullshit. I'm sorry. It's my favorite. I know. I want to believe it so much too, but the more I'm reading, the more I'm like,
00:29:40
I know and the movie when I was a kid scared the shit out of me I also looked up when that was made
00:29:45
and I was like nope too young to have watched this what like 82 something crazy like that I
00:29:50
don't know Steven look it up because that would mean I was only two that's the Jim Roland movie
00:29:54
right where he the beard and he like super nuts a gorgeous movie I keep going to that digital digital clock that it like 3 or whatever time it was that it happened 3 or something Yeah and he keeps waking up
00:30:05
All right, so it's based on the fact that George and Kathy Lutz, they buy about a year after this, they buy the DeFeo house for 80 grand.
00:30:16
They knew about the murders, but they were like, it's cool. We don't believe in shit.
00:30:20
Steven? 79. The Night Wasn't Born Yet. 79. So I watched it in the womb. I think I watched it on like a Friday night turn on movie classics or whatever.
00:30:31
No, because I remember watching it in my aunt's living room and I wouldn't have watched it when I was nine.
00:30:39
Yeah, it was on TV. We must have been home alone, turned it on, and then I wanted to kill myself.
00:30:43
It was like a creature feature thing. Yeah. You're just like, what's this? Yeah, it terrified me.
00:30:48
Remember the flies on the window? The flies in the window. Wasn't there a scene where they were standing outside of the house when they had left it
00:30:54
and all the lights were flicking on and off and all this crazy shit was going on inside.
00:30:56
Yes. That scared me more than anything I ever had until I watched it. Wow. I mean, it's not that big of a deal.
00:31:05
I was a scaredy cat as a kid. It's a very big deal. Thank you. All right. Okay. So they buy the house.
00:31:12
They're like, no big deal. We got a good deal on it. So George and Kathy and Kathy's three kids from a different marriage moved in.
00:31:20
That doesn't matter. Then weird shit starts happening. What's happening? What? it doesn't matter. I mean, I didn't, it doesn't, I don't need to specify that she had three kids
00:31:29
from a different marriage, you know, it was just like, it's fine. Okay. Like, I don't want to
00:31:33
shame her. Like she's a, Oh, she's a divorcee with three kids. Like, I don't know why I did that.
00:31:40
Like, I'm not judging her. It seems like information you're trying to convey. I don't need to. It's unnecessary. And it seems. So they were born out of wedlock. No,
00:31:48
they were born listen let me tell you about her life okay so they have a priest come to bless the
00:31:57
house he said he felt an unseen hand slap him yes in one of the rooms and heard a voice saying
00:32:03
get out get out um they said that they had crazy things happen like windows lock windows and doors
00:32:12
would lock inexplicably and then open and close a devilish creature was seen outside the window
00:32:18
at night, George was seemingly, quote, possessed by an evil spirit and green slime
00:32:24
oozed from the walls and ceiling. The family, there was apparitions of hooded figures, clouds of
00:32:32
flies, I think I already said that, cold chills, personality changes, sickly odors, objects moving
00:32:38
about on their own. And then, the youngest Lutz child, the little girl, became friends with
00:32:44
a devilish pig, evil demonic pig, imaginary friend called Jodi. Yeah. Jodi the pig.
00:32:53
Jodi the pig. Good old Jodi the pig. And then Kathy reports that she was often beaten and scratched by unseen hands and that
00:33:00
one night she was levitated off of her bed. Shit. And then George says his wife was physically transformed into an old woman with the face
00:33:10
and hair and wrinkles of a 90 year old woman, which I'm like, that's insulting. Keep that to yourself.
00:33:13
You know what I mean? Like when Vince is like, you have too much makeup on. It's like, shut up.
00:33:18
You know what I mean? But it was demonic forces. It wasn't just like, I fear you.
00:33:24
I fear your old age in the future. Okay. And then he'd wake up at 3.15 every morning when the murders happened.
00:33:32
So just 28 days after they moved in, they fled the house. They left all their clothes in the closets and food in the refrigerator.
00:33:39
By the way, when they bought the house, it had all of the DeFeo's furniture still in it,
00:33:43
except for the mattresses where the kids were fucking murdered. No way. So what the fuck is wrong with you people?
00:33:48
like redecorate man like the real estate agents like uh you can buy this as is yes and it's a
00:33:55
bargain you know that murder house in los felis that's been fucking closed up forever yeah like
00:34:00
can you imagine buying it like well this is great vintage furniture just leave it yeah no okay so
00:34:05
they end up publishing the account of the hauntings in a book that was written by that they worked on
00:34:11
with jay anson called the amityville horror true story which we all know and love um published as
00:34:16
nonfiction in 1976 sold more than six million copies um film version comes out huge box office
00:34:23
success the lutz has become famous they later admit it was a hoax no yeah when concocted with
00:34:30
the help of butch's defense lawyer william weber remember him who was like no he's crazy he heard
00:34:36
demonic voices so they said it wasn't ghosts they had all these fucking psychics and mediums come in
00:34:42
And I was like, there's no ghost here. It's demonic possession, which I believe in ghosts.
00:34:47
Sure, fine. Let's have it. But demonic possession is fucking stupid. I don't know.
00:34:53
Famous last words. So William Weber's angle was... Georgia just turned her head all the way around.
00:35:00
And then I vomited his face. William Weber, remember, was trying to say that... Basically using this account who, by the way,
00:35:10
they said that they came up with after a few bottles of wine. Oh, my God. I forgot that part with the Lutzes that to like to prove that the house was possessed and so is Butch.
00:35:20
And he was not responsible. Exactly. Yeah. That's why the family was killed. So Ronnie's still in prison.
00:35:28
All of his appeals and requests to the parole board to date have been denied. And that's the Amityville Horror and the murder of the DeFeo families.
00:35:37
It's so. So in the Amityville Horror Book, they talk about this red room that's in the basement.
00:35:43
Yes. And how it's filled with evil and all this stuff. And I was so fascinated by this.
00:35:49
It's almost like they centralized where the evil was coming from. Yeah. And like people tried to go in there and they would get crazy headaches and all this weird shit would happen I was so fascinated by that It doesn exist I sorry It exists Karen in your mind
00:36:05
Karen, it exists in your heart and soul. It's fine. I feel like at the heart of every story like that is people want to go like, oh, my God, the devil has been here.
00:36:14
And there's flies on the sewing room window. But at the end of the day, the truth of it is a spoiled asshole drug addict killed his family, which is the thing people can't face because it's not a monster.
00:36:29
And how could someone kill children? Right. Who had nothing to do. Totally. Any of this.
00:36:35
It's like. So you'd rather be like the devil. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. It's easier. Yeah.
00:36:42
Oh, honey, I'm sorry. Oh, what a story. I love it. um i can't believe i didn't do that i know i can't believe i did it didn't even cross my mind
00:36:55
that that was the story i don't know why i was thinking of the omen as that story oh yeah because
00:36:59
he's the he's this for you though like the mark the book you checked out i totally forgot oh yeah
00:37:05
girl but i mean it makes it even worse that you could check that book out it was so scary it was
00:37:10
horrifying oh my god it was very detailed and i mean the nun that was mad at me was the scariest
00:37:16
part of all. Right. Right. Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks. And I'm Karen Kilgariff. We host Do You Need a Ride,
00:37:24
the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question, what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends
00:37:28
around the wild streets of Los Angeles? Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest,
00:37:33
maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams. Like when Martha Kelly
00:37:38
shared her career pivot. I want to become an influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off
00:37:44
to college who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves. Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery.
00:37:53
Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road. Oh, that's great.
00:37:56
Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:38:04
Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:38:11
Thank you. You're welcome. Hey, it's us, the Jonas Brothers, and guess what? we have some big news. What's the news? Huge news. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.
00:38:21
How do we actually come up with the name? Hey Jonas, guys. I honestly don't remember.
00:38:24
We were talking about a fit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas. And then
00:38:28
I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.
00:38:34
But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app,
00:38:38
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it.
00:38:43
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms. So I'm Leanne.
00:38:49
Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:38:52
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
00:38:58
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
00:39:03
With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they hit a BOGO.
00:39:09
Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:39:16
Wow. I don't know about y'all, but I'm still super creeped out by that one. However, I think one of the best parts of this episode is Karen telling us it's her favorite story and Georgia's wholesale destruction of that dream.
00:39:30
Kind of like when you learn your favorite nursery rhyme is actually about Bloody Mary and not a simple gardener.
00:39:37
next we have an episode from 2018 episode 119 fingers everywhere i love this one because it has
00:39:49
everything babies ladders cross-continental travel it goes all the way to the top well
00:39:56
maybe to the third ladder wrong but still so karen's telling of the lindbergh baby kidnapping
00:40:02
always horrifies me because losing someone is everyone's worst nightmare. But the facts of the case, however cut and dried they are, still leave room for questions.
00:40:14
And who doesn't love a good conspiracy theory? Not that you believe them, but that they make for great gossip.
00:40:21
And the whole eugenics turn, girl, it's a mess. So here's Karen giving us the story of the Lindbergh baby kidnapping.
00:40:29
so somebody uh suggested this on twitter and i was positive i was going to write her name down
00:40:38
today when i was like oh i am going to do that one she suggested it's a theme and she yeah exactly
00:40:44
and she um suggested it in a terse way so i imagine she's the kind of person that's going
00:40:50
to be very pissed off that i took her idea and didn't give her name well good she said have you
00:40:56
guys ever done the blah blah blah case i think you should it was something like that it was basically
00:41:01
like come on get with it yeah and i was like that's actually a great idea thought i could look her up
00:41:07
while we were sitting here and my twitter does a thing sometimes where it just won't go back
00:41:12
very far so i couldn't look it up so full apologies hopefully i'll hear from you
00:41:18
message email twitter first tell them yeah fix their shit at jack know yeah to stop letting
00:41:24
Nazis run free on his website and then that we need to be able to go back a couple days.
00:41:29
Right. Just for the podcast. Or like search a word. Okay. You know what? Also editing.
00:41:36
It would just be nice to get one more pass before you send your ideas out. Anyhow, guys, this I am going to do the crime of the century, the kidnapping of the Lindbergh,
00:41:45
baby. Girl, I'm applauding you, but I would scare Elvis who's sitting on me right now.
00:41:50
Yeah, don't worry about it. Also, it's not my applause. It's this girl's whose name I'm not saying.
00:41:53
This girl. this girl also woman we should be saying woman we don know I actually could be misremembering and i just attributing like a feminine aspect to like whatever picture maybe she had long hair who
00:42:07
knows humans we're going to that human is going to let us know um just how pissed they are about
00:42:14
not getting credit for you know a case i also can't believe that we haven't done yet yeah and
00:42:21
as I was doing it, part of me was like, what if George has done this? And I was like, yeah,
00:42:25
at this point, I just don't care. I just want to do what I want. I think that, yeah, I think that's
00:42:29
our new, our new theme is, did she do this? I mean, let's just start repeating stories and
00:42:35
retelling them and just do better each time. Oh my God. Less and less corrections corner.
00:42:41
Love it. And then in like seven years, we're going to get to that journalistic level. People
00:42:45
have been wanting us to be at this whole time. No, we're not. Never. And then we'll give up on
00:42:50
the podcast um yes that's then we'll quietly walk away in the night yeah because you know how quiet
00:42:56
we are yeah walk away uh so i got all this information from an episode of nova oh thank
00:43:03
fucking god for that baby it's like and you can get an education for free on pbs um and the funniest
00:43:11
thing is this episode of nova featured john douglas fbi profiler john douglas who you just mentioned
00:43:18
And he's the main, basically, they pulled John Douglas all the way through of going,
00:43:23
the Lindbergh baby case and murder was presented in this way. And they got to this conclusion, John Douglas doesn't agree.
00:43:30
John Dougie, that's what we call him. He's in there with his super reasonable face and his glasses, holding his glasses and his teeth.
00:43:39
A friend of the show, John Douglas. There's a Netflix series called Conspiracy that is good.
00:43:45
And they do the thing where they do, it's a compilation, so it's like three stories in each episode.
00:43:53
So you don't get bored. What's that? So you don't get bored. Yeah, they keep it moving.
00:43:57
And this one is, the episode is Disappearances. It's also the other, I can't remember what the third crime is, but the other first crime in that is the Lord Lucan.
00:44:08
Oh, you did that guy. Disappearance, yes, I did do that. I love it. Loving it. So here we go.
00:44:13
Here's a little backstory for you of why anybody cared about Charles Lindbergh in the first place.
00:44:19
On May 21st, 1927, a 25-year-old U.S. airmail pilot named Charles Lindbergh touched down in an airfield outside of Paris, France, in his plane, The Spirit of St. Louis.
00:44:31
When I read that name, I'm like, oh, that's what that is. What? You know, The Spirit of St. Louis.
00:44:36
Oh, yeah. Like, if you had asked me that, I would have confused it with The Spruce Goose.
00:44:40
Uh-huh. I would have, you know what I mean? Maybe Amelia Earhart. Exactly. But at least you know it's a plane.
00:44:45
We know it. Maybe it's a plane. But now we know exactly. That's Charles Lindbergh's wonderful plane that got him.
00:44:51
He was the first man to ever make the nonstop flight from New York to Paris. It was 33 and a half hours.
00:44:59
Jesus. It was 3,600 miles. Is that like in one of those planes that doesn't have a face either?
00:45:05
So it's just like wind in your face. No, a biplane. I'm pretty sure it had a face on it.
00:45:11
Okay. Although, why would I say that if we're two years in? Why would I fucking say that?
00:45:19
Because you're not going to start now with not knowing shit. Look, my brain shows me movies, and that's reality to me.
00:45:26
And I just report to you, yes or no. My brain shows me movies, and that's reality.
00:45:29
And that's my reality. I love it. It was... 33 hours. We complain about four or five hours to New York City.
00:45:37
33 hours and 33 hours alone. and all day, all night. And all you hear is, and he couldn't bring a bunch of extra shit.
00:45:48
Stephen's on the plane. Stephen's got it. The plane. And do you know, thank God,
00:45:52
the spirit of St. Louis is closed in the front. Thank God. But I bet it's loud as fuck still.
00:46:00
Oh, the whole thing. It looks like a big aluminum can. No temperature control. No toilet.
00:46:05
No, it was freezing. You know, he was peeing in an old Pepsi bottle. I mean throwing it over
00:46:12
overboard for the first time in human history okay so he when he sets down in Paris and he does this thing
00:46:22
so just to give you a little did that fucking god damn it I cut and pasted it and then
00:46:32
lost this piece of information but like six other people had tried to do this and three
00:46:38
of them died. So this wasn't a thing. This was not, um, this was something because it was,
00:46:43
there was a prize. It was, um, these people said, whoever does this first gets $25,000.
00:46:49
So lots of pilots and different people were, um, were, uh, trying for it and it's really hard.
00:46:56
And some people like had to ditch out and whatever, but like people lost their lives
00:47:00
trying to make this flight. So when Lindbergh landed in this airfield outside of Paris,
00:47:06
he was immediately an international superstar. He was the most famous man in the world.
00:47:13
He got carried around the people that were waiting at the airstrip. He never had to walk again.
00:47:18
He never walked again. His feet became curled and atrophied. No, they said they held him.
00:47:24
This is on the Wikipedia page. They carried him on their shoulders for over a half an hour.
00:47:29
He's like, I've only wanted to touch the ground for the past 30 hours. The first three were great.
00:47:35
put me down. Yeah. He's like, this is the exact position I've been stuck in for 33 hours.
00:47:41
All right. So he, he gets the nickname, lucky Lindy, um, gets that 25 K. He also gets thousands and thousands more for all these promotion.
00:47:50
Oh yeah. I bet. Because apparently, Pepsi company, Pepsi is like, we want that bottle.
00:47:56
Yeah. Um, but apparently this, this, really opened up aviation in general, but also for airmail.
00:48:06
So he was the guy that kicked it open over like FedEx and everything. It's like you want to get something to Europe?
00:48:12
We're doing now. We're going to be able to do that. And that was kind of what the whole contest was about, was to kind of focus on aviation,
00:48:20
but then like, you know, opening up so that suddenly people were thinking, you know, business in terms of aviation.
00:48:26
I don't know what I'm talking about. Okay. He was given the Medal of Honor, which is the military's highest award.
00:48:34
And he was given, he was Time Magazine's first ever man of the year. Wow. And still the youngest to this day.
00:48:42
He was 25 years old. That's so young. Yeah. And he was kind of hot, too. Well, do you know who he looks like?
00:48:48
Who? Do you mind pulling up a picture of Mr. Charles Lindbergh at age 25 when he made this flight?
00:48:54
Don't tell me until I see it. Okay. Who is it? I'm going to show you a picture. Okay.
00:48:58
You're going to tell me who you think this man looks like. Now, please take your time.
00:49:04
I'm just killing time while Stephen finds it. Was he tall? He looked tall in all his photos.
00:49:08
Yes. Okay. He was tall. He was blonde. He had a dent in his chin. Love it. He was, his coloring was very like caramel, but with blonde hair, which you know, those
00:49:19
people always win. They always win. Let me pull up. Oh. It's such an old man of the year.
00:49:28
um, thing that it's illustrated. That's how long ago this story took place. Come on.
00:49:35
I'm sorry. I did this. No, no, it's okay. Hi. Cause why don't you look at this picture and tell me,
00:49:40
Oh, hello, handsome. Who you think this looks like? Well, I'm going to get this wrong.
00:49:44
No, you're not. He looks, he definitely looks like he's in a Brit pop band from the sixties in this
00:49:49
photo. Doesn't he? Yes. Does he look like, God, he's hot. Uh, tell me. Paul holes.
00:49:57
Look at the face of it. He does look like Paul Holes. He does look like Paul Holes.
00:50:01
This is the Holes episode. Well, let's just work all this Paul Holes stuff out now.
00:50:06
This is the Holes upon Holes upon Holes episode. Okay, so. He does look like Paul Holes.
00:50:13
So Lindbergh being the most famous man in the world, and like, he's being brought everywhere.
00:50:20
He's like, he's being feted in this really intense way. And he's making a ton of money.
00:50:24
Good for him. They said that for everything that kind of he got paid for around that flight, he made like almost half a million dollars in today's money.
00:50:33
OK, so but still a lot. I'll take today's money, half a million. It's pretty nice.
00:50:40
So he gets a financial planner, a financial consultant from J.P. Morgan, the big company.
00:50:47
And it's a big company. Did you know? And the planner's name is Dwight Morrow, and he's also the ambassador to Mexico.
00:50:56
What the fuck? He was, you know, this was when they gave important job, a ton of important jobs to one white guy.
00:51:03
It was the 20s. So when Morrow invites Charles Lindbergh to come on a Goodwill tour of Mexico because he's famous and everyone loves him.
00:51:14
Well, just by chance, Morrow's daughter Anne is down there and they meet and they fall in love.
00:51:21
Oh, rich people falling in love. Rich, good looking people who have their own planes fall in love all the time.
00:51:29
They deserve everything. They deserve to fly. Okay. He teaches her how to fly. I bet he does.
00:51:40
Yeah, girl. And then he teaches her how to fly. I don't know. love um they get married immediately start a family charles lundberg uh was very vocal and
00:51:51
verbal insulting or criticizing i should say other uh pilots of the day there was lots of
00:51:58
you know pilots like it's the amelia airheart era where it's like being dashing being you know
00:52:04
being a pilot was a big deal he was a trash talker he was because he said that air force
00:52:12
cadets and pilots of the day they were all um they were had facile attitudes about women oh
00:52:20
how dare you how dare whereas he believed the ideal romance was stable and long term
00:52:25
with a woman with keen intellect okay good health whoops and strong genes oops oh so you're a nazi
00:52:36
Uh-huh. Good one. Good eye. His, quote, experience in breeding animals on our farm taught him the importance of good heredity.
00:52:45
Of good breeding. Oh, dear. Hey, Chuck. No. No, no. It don't work that way. So that's just a little, that's your foreshadowing.
00:52:51
Okay. Okay. So let's go to the crime. This is 1932. Anne and Charles Lindbergh have been married.
00:53:03
and they now have two kids, a newborn, and their baby Charlie, their first son, who is two years old.
00:53:12
On Tuesday, March 1st, 1932, the family's staying at their as yet unfinished new house in Hopewell, New Jersey,
00:53:21
or right outside of Hopewell, New Jersey. They only visited this house on the weekends.
00:53:26
They were living full-time at Ann Morrow's family estate called Inglewood. um, what rich people. Yeah. Represent. Um, so no one except for the family would have known that
00:53:41
they would have been at this house because they, they were full time living at the Inglewood
00:53:46
estate, but they would come to the Hopewell house and live there just for the weekend,
00:53:52
just for fun of like this is going to be our new house Um there was of course full staff at both houses So sometime between 8 and 10 o on March 1st one or more they still not sure kidnappers
00:54:09
lean a homemade folding ladder. So it's a ladder that has three pieces that slide into each other.
00:54:16
An extending ladder, I guess. But it's homemade. Lean it up against the wall of the house,
00:54:22
underneath the baby's window. the windows unlocked the um kidnapper breaks in grabs the two-year-old um they say they theorize
00:54:33
that they subdued the two-year-old somehow because no sound was made no one in the house heard
00:54:38
anything everyone was still awake so it's not like everyone was asleep and the baby was stolen
00:54:43
everyone's up and awake downstairs um the baby doesn't make a sound they go back out down the
00:54:50
ladder and off into the night with Charlie. And they leave a window, a letter on the windowsill.
00:54:56
So there's another ransom demanding $50,000 to be dropped off at midnight at a local cemetery on
00:55:03
April 2nd. And they warn not to contact the police or they'll kill the baby. So basically,
00:55:11
Charles Lindbergh takes over this case. Now, it seemed to me that what they were kind of
00:55:17
insinuating in both of these specials is that Charles Lindbergh really kind of believed he was
00:55:22
the shit that the world was saying that he was for making that transcontinental flight.
00:55:28
He was cocky. The transatlantic flight. Yes. Some people believe he was a narcissist, you know, whatever. But
00:55:37
essentially, once this started happening, he didn't trust anybody. He didn't trust the police.
00:55:42
And he basically told everybody how it was going to go. And in doing so, fucked up this investigation that then also some people afterwards kind of theorized maybe he was
00:55:51
doing it on purpose so there's there's suspicion cast but he basically told the police like we're
00:55:58
gonna make this ransom drop you will not tail anybody you will not follow them just do it yeah
00:56:03
but but we're going to do it and so the police said okay fine just let us let us organize the
00:56:09
money the cash that you're going to drop because what the police wanted to do was um essentially
00:56:15
they're using a goal. It was like the gold standard. There used to be bills that were
00:56:21
like it was gold standard money. Yeah. And they were beginning to phase it out. But they
00:56:25
were like, if if we just use only money with these serial numbers, it'll be easier to track
00:56:32
what if these people try to spend this money after the fact. Right. So they put together
00:56:36
$50,000. They put it in this wooden box. Now, of course, when the kidnapping happens, it's
00:56:43
It's everywhere. It's the hugest story in the nation and remains so. Of course, it got even worse after. But yeah, it's the hugest story.
00:56:53
So when they know that there's a kidnapping and there's a ransom note, a retired school teacher named Dr. John Condon, who idolized Charles Lindbergh, puts an ad in the paper saying that he volunteers to be the go-between and make the ransom drop at the cemetery.
00:57:09
No, don't trust him. So Lindbergh and the kidnappers both say sounds good. So then what is this world?
00:57:16
You have to see it in the in the Nova special. The Nova special is really good because it has so much footage.
00:57:22
It's so crazy. I love it. There's footage from there's footage from the trial. Like it's it's intense.
00:57:27
Yeah. But this old guy, it's just another one of those things where like it's a guy in a three piece suit.
00:57:33
So everyone went, yeah, do whatever you want. Come on into this thing. And he is a blowhard.
00:57:37
And he, you know, they say he had good intentions, but he made himself. He's one of those people.
00:57:43
He was like looking for the spotlight. Opportunist. Yeah. So basically he goes he goes to the cemetery to make that drop.
00:57:56
And he hands over a box full and it's a wooden box full of fifty thousand dollars in these special bills.
00:58:03
and he exchanges that for a note saying where baby Charlie can be found. The kidnappers take the box of money, they give the note, they disappear,
00:58:15
and the information in the note turns out to be incorrect. So all of that was for nothing.
00:58:20
Yeah. So they still don't have the baby, and the kidnappers have gotten away scot-free.
00:58:25
Yeah. So you saw it coming? Yeah. So six weeks later, on May 12th, a truck driver driving from Princeton to Hopewell pulls over because he has to use the bathroom.
00:58:39
He walks into the woods a little bit. No. This is five miles away from Lindbergh's Hopewell estate or home.
00:58:48
And this truck driver finds the decomposing body of Charlie Lindbergh. and the police and the coroner and everybody determined, eventually determined,
00:58:59
the baby was killed the night that he was taken. So it turned out that his skull was fractured on one side,
00:59:08
and then there was a hole in the other side of the skull, the opposite side, kind of back by the ear.
00:59:16
And so the police report said that the officer that went and tried to get the body, you know, like pull the remains out of the mud, had used a stick and the officer thought he had poked a hole through the skull with a stick.
00:59:34
but in this episode of Nova there's a man named Dr. John Butts and he's the North
00:59:41
Carolina Chief Medical Examiner John Butts he's a retired medical examiner but he's also an expert on the death
00:59:47
of suspicious death in children oh my god I want to talk to him forever right and he's so I love
00:59:53
when those guys come on and they just like nope and it basically he saying you could not the way especially children skulls are You couldn poke There no way to do that And so even if whether or not this person was just simply mistaken and freaked out or they were trying to mislead he believes that the original wound
01:00:15
Oh, because the theory was from that. The theory became that when the kidnappers were coming back down, this is where this story has stuck.
01:00:23
this part i know and it fucking is horrifying yeah they think they thought at the time the
01:00:31
kidnappers were coming down the ladder with the baby and drop the baby or fell forward at the
01:00:36
because wasn't one of the ladder rungs broken yeah this ladder is the ricketyst dumbest looking
01:00:41
thing you've ever seen it's truly like if we went and made our own ladder i mean anything's possible
01:00:46
with a homemade three tiered ladder yeah insane and when you see this thing and you can see it in
01:00:53
the Nova thing. It's like, it doesn't even make sense. But the problem is with that theory,
01:01:01
the fracture that only accounts for the fracture on one side. Right. And it doesn't include
01:01:06
that just the baby had more injuries than that. And they, I think probably maybe in the hopes of
01:01:11
simplifying, but basically they weren't taking into account. And so Dr. John Butts was like,
01:01:16
that baby must've been laying down and there is a blow to one side of the baby's head,
01:01:21
which caused the hole by the ear and the pressure of that caused the fracture on the other side.
01:01:27
That's that's his theory personally. No buts about it. Is that a TV show? And then he just goes through and is talking about horrible child deaths.
01:01:36
I was like, wait, I thought this was he's like in this outlet and there's no buts about it.
01:01:41
Everyone's crying. I don't want to talk about this anymore. Two and a half years after the body is discovered, it's basically goes cold for a little while.
01:01:50
Yeah. A man in New York State buys 98 cents worth of gas, but he pays with a $10 gold certificate with this old money.
01:02:01
Yeah. And the attendant cites it and writes down his license plate number, not because he knows it has anything to do with the Lindbergh kidnapping, but he knows that money, that currency is going out of use.
01:02:14
and he wants to make sure he writes the license plate number down because he wants to make sure he can get a hold of that guy
01:02:20
if the bank doesn't take his money. What a crazy world to be living in that certain currency is going out
01:02:27
and not going to exist anymore. Can you imagine just living in it? It's so old-timey.
01:02:32
It is, but it all looks exactly the same. It's the same design as modern money. It just had yellow gold things on it.
01:02:40
I didn't look up what the gold standard was. I didn't. But, you know, if you're interested in currency or the U.S. mint, I urge you to take a tour and educate yourself.
01:02:53
I can't do it all. So the cool thing is then he immediately calls the bank. The bank recognizes that it's on this list of the Lindbergh ransom money and they call the police.
01:03:05
So why do I think I can hold a huge cup of coffee and do this at the same time? So that license plate is tracked back to a car that belongs to a man named Bruno Richard Hopman.
01:03:18
Hopman is a German immigrant carpenter who lives in the Bronx. And when the police search his home, they find a little less than $14,000, which is exactly two thirds of the ransom money.
01:03:31
No way. I'm sorry. One third of the ransom. Got it. That's what I thought. Yes. 50,000
01:03:40
half is 25 yeah a third I wrote two thirds well the other person has two thirds right it's the non
01:03:50
that's what you meant it's the third that's not the two thirds and that's what I'm trying to say
01:03:55
he has so basically he has the money with the serial numbers in his house he also has a handgun
01:04:03
they're like it's this guy then they look up that he has a criminal record where he's from in germany he had two arrests one
01:04:12
for climbing up a ladder into the second story window what to break into the mayor's house
01:04:16
to break into the mayor's germany to the whole mayor of germany um and the other crime was for
01:04:26
um holding up two women who were pushing a baby carriage dude you're like it's like a map.
01:04:33
It's a map and it's like, here's one thing I'm not afraid to do. Here's this other thing I'm interested in doing.
01:04:38
Also, I love ladders. Also, goddammit, I love to make a ladder. Now, on that very topic, if you picture,
01:04:46
so this ladder needs to be tall enough to reach a second story window. So it's like he made a normal ladder,
01:04:53
then he made a slightly smaller ladder that would slide up within that ladder, and then a third one.
01:04:58
Like that's how rickety and janky this ladder was. I wouldn't claim that thing. And they find that the third section of this ladder, there's a piece of it that's made from yellow pine.
01:05:13
And when they look up into Richard Hopman's attic, the floorboards of the attic are made of yellow pine.
01:05:20
Dude. They pull that shit down. They pull that piece of the ladder off and they match it exactly.
01:05:26
So it's one more piece of like confirming evidence that this guy was there and had something to do with it.
01:05:34
Oh, sorry. Also, the bottom legs of the bottom part of the ladder broke. And that's that's what led them to that theory that the baby fell and and cracked its head.
01:05:44
OK, because that the part of the later ladder that he left there, the bottom legs were broken or had cracked is rickety as shit.
01:05:54
It like why even just get four people to climb on their backs It be safer OK so all of that all of that combined gets Richard Hopman arrested on September 19th 1934
01:06:09
And talk about this, like how it all went so fast back then. And there was no but also the world was watching this crime.
01:06:16
crime. I mean, that when that baby was found dead, they said the nation hadn't mourned like
01:06:23
that since Lincoln was assassinated and didn't mourn like that again until JFK was assassinated.
01:06:29
It was like, this was everybody's baby. And it was this hero, this American hero's child.
01:06:36
Yeah, but we still have the it's it's almost why we have, you know, appeals and shit today is because you didn't have that back then.
01:06:45
He just fucking killed Ethel and Julius Rosenberg off the fucking bat. Yes. Their solution to everything was just, okay, great, kill him.
01:06:54
We solved it. Now we don't have to do the paperwork anymore. Quick, kill them before they ask any questions about what happened.
01:06:59
Yes. Quick, beat them for 10 hours and then kill them as quickly as possible. They confessed.
01:07:05
Kill them. Quick, quick, quick, quick. Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill. Okay. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
01:07:12
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01:07:24
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01:07:36
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins,
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01:08:19
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
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01:08:50
So, he stood trial January 2nd, 1935, and he's found guilty on February 13th of the same year and given the death sentence.
01:09:02
Now, at one point, he maintained his innocence throughout the whole time, including when the cops were like, if you give us the names of your co-conspirators, we will reduce your sentence.
01:09:13
We'll make sure that you don't get the death penalty. And he he he just maintained his innocence and didn't give any names.
01:09:22
So on April 3rd, 1936, Bruno Richard Hopman is put to death in the electric chair by the state of New Jersey.
01:09:29
Yeah. So now. There's all kinds of theories, of course, about this murder. That was it?
01:09:37
So the case closed? Case closed. They got the guy. And you can see in this Nova special, they have clips of him literally on the stand during court.
01:09:48
And the lawyer is yelling at him so loudly. Like, there's no microphones, obviously.
01:09:53
It looks like he's just sitting in a chair raised up above everybody. And the lawyer's like, and do you tell me?
01:09:59
And he's like yelling. The place is packed. it was a total zoo like that it the the circus surrounding area was packed with like thousands
01:10:10
of people going just being at the courthouse every day is super crazy so yeah they just wanted it over
01:10:16
they were just like done and they were like oh he's he's doing the thing a guilty person would
01:10:21
do which is like no no no i didn't do it the whole time and yeah like even the the phrase the
01:10:26
Lindbergh baby like that was like it was a huge story it was it was a huge story and people wanted
01:10:33
someone to pay yeah this was a this was like this tragic thing that seemed unnecessary and they
01:10:38
wanted someone to pay so here's the theories of course the first and strongest is that he didn't
01:10:44
act alone nobody thinks he acted alone the lick the the liquor the ladder was too rickety
01:10:51
somebody needs to hold that stupid thing from the bottom because it was like the dumbest ladder of
01:10:57
all time yeah um once he got inside there's a baby that would make noise so you have to have
01:11:03
you know they're gonna have to subdue that baby somehow uh and then they have to get back out and
01:11:09
back down the ladder holding it still nothing about it just couldn't they just don't see how
01:11:14
it could be done by one person. Yeah. And there's just so much organizing and, and, you know,
01:11:20
stuff to do. Also later they do handwriting comparisons. There were 15 overall. Um, the
01:11:27
police don't know officially because Lindbergh was like, you don't get to be a part of this,
01:11:31
but there were 15 different ransom letters that were written. What? Yeah. They, they communicated
01:11:37
a bunch and you know, with the old retired school teacher Lindbergh, they were masterminding all of
01:11:42
And at the time and in court, they proved the handwriting expert at the time proved that it was Richard Hopman's handwriting on all the letters.
01:11:52
But of course, modern day and in this episode of Nova, they're just like, yeah, it is inconclusive.
01:11:57
And it's that super cool modern handwriting. writing analysis where they're taking the, you know, like two letters that always get
01:12:03
written together, like an E and a T or whatever. And then they're showing how it's like all percentages.
01:12:10
It's very scientific and exact of like this matches, this doesn't. Because of course, in every letter, a couple of things match and then some things don't.
01:12:19
So it's all total like percentages. And it depends on what letters are written before and after them and where they place
01:12:27
in the word. Right. I love that shit. Yeah, it's very cool. And you can kind of see that it doesn't match from a distance, but they needed it.
01:12:37
They needed it to be at the time. So they believe that other people were involved.
01:12:42
Also, because of how many things had to go right with a kidnapping like that, they believe that it was somebody that worked on the staff in one of the houses.
01:12:51
Oh, shit. It was an inside job. Oh, shit. And they believe that this is a man named Lloyd Gardner, who's a professor at Rutgers.
01:13:00
And he has this is his theory. And it's a very strong, interesting theory. Strong, strongly interesting.
01:13:08
So it's his theory that it's there was somebody inside the house that was helping set it up.
01:13:14
And they're the only also the only other people that would have known that the Lindbergh family would have gone to the Hopewell house because they were full time at the other house.
01:13:24
So that's like very few people would have known that would have known to go to the unfinished house that they didn't live in.
01:13:30
Right. The police interviewed a servant who worked at the Inglewood estate named Violet Sharp.
01:13:37
And they interviewed her twice. She gave contradictory stories between the first and second one.
01:13:42
When they went back for the third interview, she runs upstairs, drinks silver polish and dies within minutes.
01:13:50
Oh, that sounds chill. Then that's very suspicious. Right. And it's like, well, something's going on in this household.
01:13:57
Okay, so Lloyd Gardner's theory, and maybe other people's too, and this pulls in some dark shit in Charles Lindbergh's life.
01:14:06
He had, okay, so Charles Lindbergh had a sister who died of heart failure. And he started, he was a researcher, he was an inventor,
01:14:15
he did a bunch of other shit just besides being in the, like he was in the Air Force and being a pilot and all that stuff.
01:14:24
He did a bunch of other stuff, too. He started working with a Nobel Prize winning scientist named Dr. Alexis Carroll.
01:14:33
And Dr. Carroll had won the Nobel Prize because he did all this work in vascular surgery.
01:14:39
And so Dr. Carroll, Lindbergh went and worked with him as a medical engineer because they were trying to figure out essentially how to build a heart pump to keep people alive if they had heart failure.
01:14:55
And that's the work they did. But the work that people didn't know so much about is that Dr. Alexis Carroll was a huge proponent of eugenics.
01:15:05
Oh, dear. And if you don't know, eugenics was this kind of pseudoscientific belief that got very popular in the 30s in America because of this doctor.
01:15:16
that human beings should be breeding to make, that basically genetically superior people are the only people that should reproduce.
01:15:28
The master race. Yes, and that we should sterilize anybody who's physically or mentally imperfect.
01:15:35
It was gaining tons of popularity, and Dr. Carroll told Lindbergh he was the perfect example of the ubermensch, Superman,
01:15:44
that um eugenics was aiming toward which of course you know our boy charles lindberg was like oh
01:15:52
really tell me more i love this idea that i i'm the one everyone should be like and i already was
01:15:59
the international and then you go near jp morgan's fucking daughter like jesus christ master race
01:16:06
yeah so he becomes this huge proponent of fucking eugenics which which basically becomes a very
01:16:14
shrouded pro-Nazi anti-Semitic movement. But it just has this super creepy face of like, you know, the American dream is almost
01:16:24
how they were trying to market it. It's super gross. OK, so so the theory is that Charlie Lindbergh, Charles Lindbergh's first son, was not a
01:16:35
healthy baby. He had a mild form of rickets. Ricketts is the disease in little kids if they have it bad enough it basically makes their legs their knees touch and like their legs are bowed and they really deformed Charlie wasn that bad So that some people argue that this are that this health argument isn strong enough or like the case can be made
01:17:00
But the theory is that they wouldn't have that the family was very secretive about what all these medical problems were.
01:17:08
He also didn't have a closed fontanel, which I love that word because that's what Holly Hunter says in Raising Arizona.
01:17:15
Something about I swear that you mentioned that just now because there's something about this case has always reminded me of raising Arizona and that they take a ladder and climb up to the second floor and steal a fucking baby.
01:17:26
Yeah, it's kind of exactly that. It's like the comedy version of this horrible story.
01:17:30
Yeah. And his little fontanelle. Mind his fontanelle. I love him so much. Mind his fontanelle.
01:17:37
Mind his fontanelle. So, OK, so the fontanelle wasn't closed, which is a soft spot on a baby's head.
01:17:45
and he was two years old. So it's very late for that to be happening. Also, there's a doctor, I think on the conspiracy show,
01:17:54
who was talking about that when the remains were found, there were deeper inner organs that were missing.
01:18:06
And at the time, I think the medical examiner, they wrote it off as, well, it's exposure and wild animals have gotten to it.
01:18:15
And this woman in the conspiracy one goes, yeah, but you wouldn't be missing. Right.
01:18:22
You wouldn't be missing your heart. You wouldn't be missing half of your lung, but not your heart.
01:18:28
Right. They're not going to be like, I'm a big fan of lungs. Yeah. I'm going to take this piece.
01:18:34
It's not a pick and choose situation. It doesn't make sense. So they're saying they think this baby had a bunch of surgeries, that there was a lot of things wrong and just nobody knew about it.
01:18:44
It was like the secret. And that the plan was, because this was a thing that got done a lot back then, that the plan was that it was Charles Lindbergh's idea to kid, quote unquote, kidnap the baby.
01:18:56
Then the baby's missing. And then meanwhile, they can anonymously check that two year old into an institution and basically institutionalize the child so that he doesn't ever have the world will never know that his genes are not perfect.
01:19:11
And he is not this super bench. Oh, I did not know that. Yeah, well, this is a theory. So this isn't obviously proven. And this is no, it's true. Take it up with Nova if you don't like it. But but I think it's fascinating because it would there's nothing about that story that makes sense. Like this, the mystery of the Lindbergh baby kidnapping is why? Why would you kill a baby if you got the money for it? What monster would just immediately same night before anyone gets a chance to pay off anything? Just kill the child.
01:19:44
It doesn't make sense. Yeah. And then keep going with it. Yeah. Yeah. And also then just that those things, those behaviors are connected. Like if you're into eugenics, there's some thing going on inside you that is really gross. Yeah. And really creepy. And it continued on. So so basically after the kidnapping and then the body, the body being found, the public attention and pressure was so great on the Lindbergh family that they and.
01:20:14
And apparently in one of these stories, they said that there was another kidnapping threat against their baby, John, their new baby.
01:20:22
So they they were given diplomatic passports and they traveled under assumed names and they took a boat like they left in the middle of the night and took a boat to England and ended up going to live with family that they had there in in Wales is where they ended up going to Wales.
01:20:38
And then they went off to some island off the coast of France. They were just like tried to get away from everybody.
01:20:46
But so they lived in Europe for the next three years. But the next three years was 35 to 38 in fucking Europe.
01:20:53
And the Nazis were coming to power. Yeah. And the Nazis had heard all about how much Charles Lindbergh was into eugenics.
01:21:02
And they were like, guess what? We're into eugenics, too. Why don't you come and take a tour of the fucking factory?
01:21:07
so that basically he came out as a very huge anti-Semite and a big pro-Hitler like he was his whole thing was like
01:21:18
I don't know why Hitler has to be so extreme about everything but they do have great ideas
01:21:22
he was that guy like I'm not a Nazi but yeah but I do love I love their ideas and they're organized or all that
01:21:30
bullshit okay so so basically he gets asked to return to the United States to be a consultant for the U.S. Air Force, because I think the
01:21:42
military was like we about to get into this thing At that point when they come back they have he and Anne had had five children Jesus
01:21:53
And they say over the years, his kids only saw him a couple months a year. Wow. That he was really detached, distant father.
01:22:02
And then so none of that explains the kidnapping and none of that attributes anything.
01:22:06
And there was lots of distant fathers that. Sure. But then here's another weird twist.
01:22:11
In 2003, these people in these German citizens come forward and announce that they are secretly they were secretly fathered by Charles Lindbergh in the 50s.
01:22:24
What? Seven adult people. What? So what happened was and this turns out to be fucking true.
01:22:31
No way. That in the late 50s, he goes over to Germany and he starts having an affair.
01:22:38
He has an affair with a woman named Brigitte Hessemer. He has three children with Brigitte.
01:22:46
And then Brigitte's sister, Mariette, who's a painter, he has two kids with her sister.
01:22:52
Oh, my God. And then with his private secretary in Europe, her name is Valeska. I just have the name Valeska.
01:23:05
He has a son and daughter with her. Oh, my God, dude. Chill out. All seven kids.
01:23:11
They're born between 58 and 67. And in 1974, Charles Lundberg died of lymphoma. And 10 days before his death, he wrote letters to all three women begging them not to reveal the secret.
01:23:25
And so none of them did. And the only way they found out was one of, I believe it was Brigitte's daughter.
01:23:32
I could be wrong about that, but I believe it was Brigitte's daughter found. They all had suspicions because he told them they were all they they met him and like would see him once a year, maybe twice a year over the years.
01:23:45
But he said his name was shit. I won't be able to remember it. I don't have it written down.
01:23:53
It was something weird like Carl Kent or something like that. Just a weird fake name.
01:23:59
That's the only way they knew their father. But then did you get it? Yeah. Thank you.
01:24:05
Oh, Carew Kent. C-A-R-E-U. Make that shit up, man. Carew Kent would show up and be like, it's me, your dad.
01:24:14
Merry Christmas. Bye. So Brigitte's daughter finds love letters and photographs, puts it together.
01:24:23
They all get their DNA tested And then they find out It's seven children That he fathered
01:24:29
And it goes along with his eugenics thing Of I am the one That needs to propagate
01:24:37
And have tons of kids So I'm going to go and have all these affairs And just have kids all over the place
01:24:41
Yeah I have to It's for the fucking greater good It's for the greater good of fucking Germany
01:24:46
So So, I mean, that's just kind of like an interesting, weird, creepy thing where it's just like, who is this person?
01:24:58
Who is this mystery man that like the world held up as this great human being because he made a solo flight across the Atlantic?
01:25:07
The good part about this horrible story that basically rocked the nation and was the hugest story,
01:25:15
like it's all anybody talked about for years and years, is that the day after this baby was kidnapped,
01:25:21
Congress passed a law making kidnapping a capital offense. Wow. So that's when they put it into effect that if you take a person over state lines.
01:25:29
Oh, right. Yeah. It's a capital offense. And basically that's it. It was and it was called it then.
01:25:40
And, you know, although remains popular at the time, it was the crime of the century.
01:25:45
that's incredible that they never found any, the other two thirds people that it could have been there in.
01:25:52
If you watch this Nova special, there's a guy on there that, and it reminds me of like a lot of the black Dahlia stuff where there's a guy
01:25:59
on there. He's like, my father knew a person and he overheard this conversation and it could have
01:26:03
been this guy. And it could have been this guy. It would have been that someone related to that.
01:26:08
The, the dude, the one third dude. Yeah. Brother. Does he have a brother-in-law?
01:26:12
It's always the brother-in-law. Well, because he was this German immigrant, there was other people on the city block that he lived on that were from the same city that he was from in Germany.
01:26:22
And so the landlord of this guy who says his father overheard a conversation that that man's landlord was from the same city as as Hopman.
01:26:33
So the theory, it's very strong theory, but it is just theory. And it kind of goes all over because it basically this guy father overheard a conversation where they all talked about Engel They use the word Englewood and they said the name Bruno and da da da da
01:26:48
And then there's pictures and whatever, but it's, it, nothing is conclusive. So I didn't include it.
01:26:53
They never found the other money, right? Like no one ever spent it. Well, but there's the one guy that they suspected, one of the two people that they really,
01:27:02
this guy knew and they suspected took a what at the time would have been a $70,000
01:27:09
world cruise with his wife. And there's pictures of him on the cruise. And they came, he came back from Europe after Hopman was, was found guilty.
01:27:24
So basically they took a cruise, got the fuck out of Dodge, went around the world on a boat.
01:27:29
And then when they heard that they got the guy and they were sending him to the lecture chair, they're like, OK, we can go back now.
01:27:34
That was him. He's got I think it was him. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's crazy. It's but it's very sinister and and definitely unproven.
01:27:44
But the idea that he just wanted this not perfect baby out of the house is just so dark.
01:27:51
Or maybe what they were going to do is like take take the baby out, put him in a facility.
01:27:57
something accidentally happened and he died maybe they were going to replace him
01:28:01
with like an adopted perfect baby that they were going to say was him oh maybe could be
01:28:09
I mean when you see there's lots of they have lots of home video and these black and white
01:28:13
videos of this baby it's not like this baby looks like anything is wrong but I feel like
01:28:19
if he was under this pressure to be the perfect human being and that that's the whole theory of eugenics is like perfection perfection yeah then you can't
01:28:29
have a baby that has turned in knees rickets you know like is that is even in any way developmentally
01:28:36
slow yeah maybe the baby that they found that was dead wasn't charlie maybe they put charlie
01:28:44
in a fucking institution killed some other baby to be like nope charlie's dead and then they could
01:28:50
have this sick baby that they visit whenever they want. Maybe. I think that's it.
01:28:57
You've done it. I did it. You know what I mean, though? You've added another twist.
01:29:02
Yes. Well, but basically they did it. Yeah. That's even darker because then they're killing a baby.
01:29:08
Right. Yeah. Yeah. It's, I mean, the whole thing is, it would be nice to have some answers.
01:29:15
Wouldn't it? Let's DNA test that shit. Go on genealogy. Dot net. Test that shit.
01:29:22
Right. Get on there. Well, fuck. That was great. Oh, thanks. We I bet you guys have never heard the word ladder more in your life.
01:29:32
Oh, my gosh, you guys. This has been so much fun. Thanks so much to Karen and Georgia and the Exactly Right team for bringing us great content
01:29:39
every week. And thank you for listening. I'm Kyle Russell. You can catch me on Instagram at Kiki with Kiki.
01:29:47
And this is the end. Bye. Stay sexy and don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:29:58
I'm Bailey Taylor and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the
01:30:03
women shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success,
01:30:07
but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations and the real work behind it all.
01:30:12
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity. You know,
01:30:21
I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the
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iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the famous author Roald Dahl. He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG.
01:30:35
But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I. You can hear all about his wildlife story
01:30:41
in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl. All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories?
01:30:47
It must have been. What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, I was a spy.
01:30:53
Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl. Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:31:00
Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people. Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
01:31:08
She trained in something called neurolinguistic programming. People loved our training.
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Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
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A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
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Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.