00:00:00
This is exactly right. It's here. The participating U.S. Taco Bell locations for a limited time only.
00:00:34
While supplies last, contact Store for availability. Your husband is not who you think he is.
00:00:38
Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history.
00:00:44
I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:00:52
He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off.
00:00:57
And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:06
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:01:11
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:01:18
It's mental health month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.
00:01:26
This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:01:35
Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstark. That's Karen Kilgareff.
00:01:59
And I'm Tig Notaro, and this is Don't Ask Tig. Yes. Yes. The ultimate combination.
00:02:07
The big crossover you've all wondered and waited for. Everyone's been looking at their watch, waiting for this trio.
00:02:17
It's now dropped. Here it is. A new world. Tig, how are you? I'm doing all right.
00:02:22
Yeah? Yeah, I'm doing well. What about yourselves? I feel like I'm doing well, although I can't figure out what temperature I am at any given time of the day.
00:02:34
Like flip-flops, slippers, a light sweater. Is it menopause? It could be perimenopause.
00:02:42
Okay. Frighteningly enough. I'm full-blown menopause. Are you full-blown? What gave it away? How did you know that it was happening?
00:02:49
Um, just flop sweat every, um, 15 minutes and, um, you know, just the very generic, embarrassing marriage issue of the, I'm too hot, I'm too cold, but like to the craziest degree where Stephanie is dressed in a snuggle suit, as we call it.
00:03:13
and I'm like, just not anything on me. And I'm like, just dripping in sweat. And then I'm freezing and dripping in sweat.
00:03:22
And plus I'm 51. And so that gave it away too. Isn't it funny that when you're with someone long enough,
00:03:27
you get mad at them when they're not the temperature that you are. And then like, why are you hot?
00:03:32
Or why are you wearing that instead of it just being fine that everyone's different?
00:03:37
Yeah, yeah. Stephanie and I always take those moments. And when we get frustrated with each other
00:03:42
or overly comfortable with each other in maybe gross or awkward moments, we always say,
00:03:49
first date. And then we pretend like that is happening on the first date when you're fighting
00:03:56
over the temperature. And it really brings us a lot of joy and it kind of snaps us back into
00:04:04
how we're maybe talking to each other or treating each other. I love that. That is just some of the amazing advice that you can get on Don't Ask Tig.
00:04:14
That's actually an amazing presence reminder for people. Yeah. And not only does it make you realize how comfortable you are with that person,
00:04:27
but it also immediately kicks you into a fit of laughter. because when you think of doing, first of all, dressing in a snuggle suit on the first date
00:04:38
and yelling at each other about the temperature. Another thing that I encourage people to try,
00:04:46
when Stephanie and I had our first argument that was a very clear argument, I remember walking over
00:04:53
to a window and I don't have a singing voice, but I put my hand on the window and I just
00:05:01
started singing a song that I was making up in the moment called There Was a Time. So I was just
00:05:07
staring off into the distance singing, there was a time. And I started reminiscing about when we got
00:05:14
along. And that also made us laugh really hard. And to this day, when we have arguments, we bust
00:05:23
into improv musicals and remind each other of the good times when we're in the middle of a fight.
00:05:30
This is magic. This is magic relationship advice. But what's key that we also learned, you can't end things in the fun and laughter that you've
00:05:44
diverted to. You have to actually go back and revisit the issue. But it's never going to work in the moment when you're fired up, right? So like you bring it back
00:05:54
to a level and then you can revisit it in that moment or later But yeah that not the place where you going to solve it is when you heightened anyway So that such a great idea to break the tension
00:06:05
And then you can't just stay in the like ridiculous laughter fit that you're in while you're singing to each other.
00:06:11
Oh my God. And calling each other out on issues or reminiscing on good times. You have to have that fun and then go back and say,
00:06:21
also, here's why you're terrible. Right. So here's why you shouldn't get- Let's remember what this is really all about,
00:06:28
which is me pointing out your flaws. Here's why we're fighting about windshield wiper fluid,
00:06:33
which is my most recent fight with my husband. And then it's like, you get back and you're like,
00:06:37
why were we fighting about windshield wiper? Well, because you have to kill time until you die.
00:06:43
What else am I going to talk about? Truly. I've always really enjoyed window comedy too.
00:06:49
I think there was some antidepressant ad where a woman, before she gets the pill,
00:06:56
she walks over to a window and then just pulls a huge sweater across herself and just stares.
00:07:02
And the idea that that's depression in a nutshell is so funny to me where it's just like,
00:07:09
I just have to look out the window. That's how bad it is. But I'm always cold because I'm depressed.
00:07:15
Also just adjust the air in your house. Not when you're depressed. Well, you can't do anything when you're depressed.
00:07:22
us. Can't. Amen. You know. That just reminds me of when my mom was going through menopause and
00:07:29
she would pick up whatever was like flappable nearby and be like, is anyone else? And like
00:07:35
for months where we were like, no, the answer's no. Like no one else is fanning themselves.
00:07:41
Aggressively fanning themselves. Yeah. It'd be like a huge menu from a restaurant.
00:07:45
God, is anyone else? And it would just be like, she could never accept the fact it was just
00:07:49
happening to her. She needed people to go there with her. And it's the anger that comes with it.
00:07:54
Right. Just like nobody else. Yeah. Anybody else? What's wrong with all of you? Turn the sunlamp
00:08:02
off me, please, God. Also, I have to mention, which quite possibly if people are familiar with
00:08:09
me that are listening, I'm assuming you're going to actually air this. But if you are listening and
00:08:16
you're thinking, wait, Tig is experiencing menopause and she looks like that. People
00:08:21
sometimes think that when you're gay or you look masculine in any way that you don't go through
00:08:29
menopause. It throws them off. You know what I'm saying? Yeah, but those people can't balance a lot
00:08:35
of things in their heads at once. Absolutely. But I'm just, I don't want to leave anyone out.
00:08:40
Are you saying when you go through that hot flash, every time you walk over and real quick
00:08:45
Put on some hot pink lipstick. Here, is this what you want? Or comb my mustache.
00:08:51
Whichever direction I go in. Oh, and then everyone's heads explode. What's happening?
00:08:59
And why isn't it called womanipause? Ooh, hot take. Great. Thank you. Great point.
00:09:05
Thank you. There was a time. You guys have known each other forever and ever, right?
00:09:13
I mean, I would say maybe 15 years, would you say? Yeah. To the day. So happy anniversary.
00:09:21
Happy anniversary to you. I know. I can't believe it's come around again. Aw, you guys.
00:09:26
It's too bad we don't have that picture of us from that year. I think it was Bumbershoot, right?
00:09:32
Yeah. Where we took like a prom photo in front of a fireplace. Oh my God. You have to find that.
00:09:37
It's somewhere. I think you just did it like, let's just do this right now. It wasn't like for a reason.
00:09:42
No, I think probably looking back, the reason it happened was I think I had that immediate fall in love with your comedy experience because I don't think we had hung out before that.
00:09:56
No, we hadn't. That's true. Yeah. And so I think when I met you and I'm fumbling over my words, but I had a comedy fall in love with somebody.
00:10:08
And I probably wanted to ask you to prom. But yeah, well, I remember Karen was married at the time, so it probably wasn't appropriate for me to ask her to prom.
00:10:20
So I just thought, let's pose by the fireplace. Like that's the thing that got me into comedy were those comedy crushes.
00:10:28
It was like when someone's on stage saying a thing that is so specifically unique to them or like you go, wait, what?
00:10:36
I didn't ever think of that. there's this very heady, almost like 12-year-old feeling of like, them, them, you know, like you
00:10:46
just get that thing where you're just like, your brain, your personality. It's so exciting. And it's
00:10:51
a thing that having done stand-up, like you value the most of like a unique voice that's being
00:10:57
themselves. Absolutely. And where you find yourself a comedian laughing. Yes. Which is unusual
00:11:05
sometimes after a certain point, because when you're processing comedy, I know for myself,
00:11:12
a lot of times I'll be thinking, oh, that's interesting, or that's really funny. And those
00:11:18
are the thoughts that are going through my brain while I'm watching comedy a lot of times.
00:11:22
But then there are the people that make me laugh out loud, as it's called. And my wife is one of
00:11:32
where I'm just, I feel so thankful every day that she makes me laugh that hard. And when you find
00:11:40
those people where you are for sure thinking, oh, that's interesting, or oh, what an angle.
00:11:47
I never thought of that But also you crying laughing You crying laughing and you pushing them away from you because you just like those kind of laughs where you just like you silently cackling and tears are coming out of your eyes
00:12:05
and you're physically pushing them away from you because it's way too much. There's nothing better and nothing more rare after you become a comedian.
00:12:14
Very true. Like the whole like arms crossed, you can't get me. I've seen it all.
00:12:20
I've been doing stand-up for four years or whatever. Like everybody wants to be the expert.
00:12:25
But then at certain points, you watch people and just go, oh, this is, I get to be an audience
00:12:31
member now. I get to not know anything and just be like absorbing this. Because I remember watching your set, but I'd been out for a long time.
00:12:40
And so I just heard of you and knew people loved your stuff. And then I watched your set.
00:12:46
And it was just the one where at the beginning, you just keep adjusting the mic stand and
00:12:49
then you end up putting it up in the audience. Like when you keep putting it away.
00:12:54
Yeah. Further and further away. And that, it was just such a perfect opening joke for that exact moment where that audience just couldn't believe.
00:13:04
Because they'd seen, probably seen 25 comics that day. It was like the festival, you know, ingestion of comedy where they were all becoming experts.
00:13:13
And then suddenly it was just like, it's exactly what I said, but it's a hundred times funnier to watch it.
00:13:20
Because it's just what comics do when they get on stage of the slight adjustment of like,
00:13:24
yeah, this definitely needs to be one and a half feet over there right now. Right.
00:13:28
Which is, you know, it's great. Just walking a mic stand all the way up to the top row of a theater is really satisfying.
00:13:36
I love that. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I used to love just wandering around the theater with a mic stand going,
00:13:43
where can I put this so I can get my show started? Oh, my. That reminds me. I don't think I've ever done that on a special or anything.
00:13:50
and maybe I'll revisit that. One of the greats, one of the early greats. Wow. I will say as a professional comedy fan myself
00:13:59
and not a comedian, I've watched both of you and had the, oh my God, fangirl laugh out loud.
00:14:05
I want to know her moments. So it's a treat for me to be on this recording listening to you guys talk shop.
00:14:12
That is so kind. I love being a part of it. I always feel ridiculous because whenever I am around Karen,
00:14:20
I've moved beyond where I always bring it up to Karen, but Stephanie and I, my wife and I
00:14:26
would just talk about Karen incessantly and I would just randomly text her and be like,
00:14:31
we are talking about you again. We can't get over this thing you said. We love this song.
00:14:37
Oh my God. I mean, it's truly a drug. It's truly a drug when you find somebody that funny.
00:14:44
Thank you so much. I feel the exact same way. And also those texts, just so you know, you were sending them at a very bad time in my life.
00:14:53
Oh. I think that was my era where basically the writing jobs I could get were like,
00:14:59
it was a lot of four week jobs on a pilot for the E! channel. There's a lot of stuff where I was like, what am I doing?
00:15:06
Should I move home? And then I would just get a text from Tig that was like, your album is making me cry.
00:15:13
It's the best. And then I'd just be like, okay, I'm going to stay here for two more weeks.
00:15:17
She thinks I'm funny. And so therefore, yes, we're going to hold on. It was beyond obsessive.
00:15:23
I feel like Stephanie and I could, she has a great voice. I don't, but I feel like we could re-record your album.
00:15:30
Do it. Word for word. Word for word. We have, we have that kind of time. We'll do it.
00:15:38
The kids can be backup, right? Yeah. Just like be the audience. Oh my God. Will you tell us a little bit about your family?
00:15:45
I would love to. I have three cats. Yay! For starters. We have two almost six-year-old twins, Max and Finn. And they are luckily very
00:15:59
interested in similar things, but they could not be more different. It's so crazy. I mean,
00:16:08
they're both really into sports. They play baseball, football, basketball, kickball,
00:16:14
tennis, they ride their bikes, they swim. I mean, everything. They're so into it. But Finn watches.
00:16:21
He watches all the games. He gets up at five in the morning, checks Stephanie's cell phone and checks stats. A five-year-old?
00:16:31
Yes. Oh my God. I didn't know they did stuff like that these days. I don't know if they do. And he feels like one of those kids you could put on a talk show,
00:16:40
although we would never put them on a talk show. He knows everything. He can tell you,
00:16:47
I guess there's been 29 games this baseball season, or I don't know if it's preseason. I
00:16:53
don't know what's going on, but there's 29 games. He can tell you the score of every game and who
00:17:00
played. And he knows when so-and-so was traded to what team. It's so crazy. And he's this big.
00:17:09
It's incredible. Are you or Stephanie fans of baseball? Did he start absorbing this because
00:17:14
you guys would have a game on? Probably. I always say I look more like I would be following the
00:17:21
sports, but Stephanie is more in the sports world. She's in an all-female basketball league,
00:17:28
and she has a game tonight that I'm going to go watch. And then her dad lives with us
00:17:33
and he used to coach all of the kids' teams when Stephanie and her siblings were growing up.
00:17:39
And so we call Max and Finn and Papa Grande is their grandfather. The three of them are the triplets.
00:17:49
Oh my God. Because they're always playing sports or playing cards or rolling around on the floor So it nice but there no vibe at all in our house where it like you got to get out and you got to hit that ball What team is this person on What team is
00:18:06
that person on? Yeah, there is none of that. It's just as the seasons go by, the sports seasons,
00:18:13
Max and Finn play baseball when baseball season's on. Football, same thing. And basketball,
00:18:20
ball, same thing. But Max is more into Star Wars and superheroes. And he loves ants and bugs and
00:18:28
snakes. And we have an ant farm at our house. And whereas Finn, he didn't really care about that.
00:18:35
They're both into music. They both sing John Denver and Dolly Parton and James Taylor.
00:18:41
around the house. Just belt it. And it is like, it is the cutest thing you've ever heard in your life.
00:18:50
Country roads, take me home. Oh, come on. In a little five-year-old voice. Yes. That's the greatest.
00:18:56
Yes. It's the best. I love that because growing up, my mama do this thing where to get us out of bed
00:19:02
because we were both so, my sister and I couldn't get out of bed in the morning.
00:19:06
So she'd put on like Carole King's tapestry because she started to realize like yelling, throwing the door open and screaming wasn't working. Like we were just used to it and
00:19:15
didn't care or whatever. But then if she would put this music on like while she was getting ready for
00:19:19
work, then it was almost like, oh, it's time to get up. And it was like the better way to do it.
00:19:25
Yeah. I love that when like music is kind of already there. It's not something like you have
00:19:30
to go discover when you're a teen or something. It's like there's household music. Yes. And we
00:19:36
have a music room. And so they mess around. Mainly Max goes in and he messes around on the piano and
00:19:43
drums. And, you know, he's never had lessons in his shows. Ask the neighbors. But he's loving it.
00:19:51
And our neighbors, they'll hear it sometimes. And they're like, man, it sounded good. I don't know
00:19:56
who was up there playing, but it sounded good. Damn, that's good neighbors. I have to say,
00:20:01
as far as getting up, Stephanie to this day makes fun of me because I told her when I was terrible
00:20:08
at waking up as a kid, I failed three grades, dropped out of high school. I have a seventh
00:20:14
grade education. I was not out the door for school ever. And my mother would yell,
00:20:21
are you up? And I would, with attitude, say, I'm putting my shoes on while I would
00:20:31
What did you think you were going to say? No. Yeah, but I would do it with such attitude.
00:20:41
Like, I'm brushing my teeth. And then I just go back to sleep. And so to this day, Stephanie will yell to me.
00:20:50
Like, if I'm taking too long, I'm putting my shoes on. I got caught one time. I got up, went in, took a shower, came back to my room.
00:21:01
and had the towel wrapped around and then the big towel wrapped up in my hair. And then I just laid back down and went to sleep.
00:21:09
And my mom came and was like, are you kidding me? Like it made her snap because I had started.
00:21:14
But yeah, I had to go back. My mom would do a thing, and now Vince does it, where she'd go like this.
00:21:23
She would make that noise, that song, exactly. And it drove me crazy. And now- What is that song?
00:21:29
That's the revelry to wake up. Revelry. So Vince fucking, like Vince does it his last try,
00:21:36
you know, like if nothing else is working because he knows like my mom and my ear
00:21:39
will piss me off enough to wake me up. And that really gets you out. Oh yeah. Gets me angry and out of bed.
00:21:48
And by the way, I've heard that song before. I might have fucked it up. I just didn't know the name.
00:21:54
Ah, yes. Yeah. Again, I have a seventh grade. Look, I barely graduated high school, missed most of high school.
00:22:03
You did? Yeah, I get it. I get it. Yeah. Look at us now. Yeah. Look at us now talking to each other.
00:22:11
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00:22:48
Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:22:52
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:23:03
And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:23:12
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:23:19
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:23:26
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:23:30
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:23:35
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:23:40
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:49
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
00:23:56
You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast... The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:24:01
All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
00:24:06
What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. I was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:24:13
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do you want to get into...
00:24:20
Yeah, we brought you here today. Because we wanted you to tell us your hometown story.
00:24:27
Have you been interested in true crime? Did you ever read and rule books growing up or watch forensic files or anything like that?
00:24:35
I mean, I can't claim like, oh yeah, like forever I followed true crime or anything.
00:24:43
I dated a woman like maybe 10 years ago and she was really into, I think it was the show
00:24:50
called, was it called Snatched? Or did I just call it Snatched? Or Snap? Yeah. Snapped.
00:24:55
Snapped. Yes, yes, yes. Yeah, no, she watched that show, Snapped. I would just, you know, lie in bed with her and watch it.
00:25:03
And I would think, oh, wow, this really is, it does suck you in. Yeah. Did she like it because it was like women becoming murderers?
00:25:12
I think she was just really into the off the rails vibe of it all. But yeah, music and documentaries, I love.
00:25:19
And that's my other podcast is Tig and Cheryl, True Story. It's a weekly podcast about a new documentary.
00:25:26
And sometimes that crosses over with true crime. And I certainly love looking at and discussing those stories.
00:25:35
But yeah, I think I probably just had a normal interest if that even, you know, nothing where I'm like, I got to start a podcast about true crime.
00:25:44
They call it my favorite murder. Yeah, that's pretty intense. It's kind of extreme.
00:25:49
Yeah. So you have a couple stories of things that happened when you were younger.
00:25:53
Or do you think having had a personal connection to some really awful things that happened make you kind of less wanting to dive deep into other people's stories?
00:26:03
I don't know, because we've certainly covered true crime murders on Tig and Cheryl, you know, and it's fascinating.
00:26:14
It's just that human behavior that you don't understand. I know for myself, I just go back to, I don't understand how it gets to that point.
00:26:26
No matter how much you're upset about the windshield wiper fluid, you know what I mean?
00:26:33
No matter what it is. And then the fascinating part is you also hear a lot of times where people, it's not premeditated.
00:26:45
And that's that snapped element. Yeah, right. It's just that the psychology of it, the mystery, that's what's so fun.
00:26:54
I think even on a very nothing level, the mystery of will they or won't they get together in a love story.
00:27:04
You just, you love that purgatory, the unknown and waiting and anticipation. Are they going to fall in love?
00:27:12
Are they going to be together? What happened? What's that area that's in between?
00:27:18
You don't know. It's riveting. Well, in a show like Snap, I definitely watched it.
00:27:24
And I think it's that thing, like the first one I think of is like, it's people in an office, right?
00:27:30
So then it's like, it's this lady in the office and she acts weird and she does weird stuff with people's lunch and this and that.
00:27:35
But then what people don't know is that this is going to add up to this horrifying crime.
00:27:41
And that idea that, I guess this is for me when I watch those things where it's like,
00:27:47
okay, so if I'm ever in an office and someone's doing stuff like this, I have to remember,
00:27:50
like this is going to be a key to future human behavior. So I won't be caught unaware.
00:27:57
Like if someone's touching other people's food in the refrigerator at work, red flag,
00:28:02
be careful of that person or whatever. Look for the bodies under their desk. Call the police.
00:28:10
Right. The second they eat your tuna sandwich, it's over. Oh, man. The second they touch your tuna sandwich.
00:28:16
Look at it. Call 911. Yeah. And then just start screaming inside the office. Yeah.
00:28:23
Right. Yeah. No, I don't know if it made me. Well, yeah. As you mentioned, there were two stories.
00:28:30
One was, I mean, I don't know. Should I go into this now? Sure. Whatever you want.
00:28:35
Yeah. My closest friend in seventh grade dated this guy as much as you date in seventh grade.
00:28:42
And he was definitely a little different than anybody else. He also happened to live, I believe, next door to or on the same street as one of my good friends.
00:28:57
And they grew up together on the street or next door. Again, I can't remember because it was in junior high school.
00:29:05
But my truly very best friend, not like, oh, years later, and I'll just call her my best friend, dated this guy.
00:29:15
And I would say he was somebody that just was undeniably different. And as I mentioned earlier, I failed.
00:29:28
I was a dropout person. I ended up in in-school suspension and in that kind of world of at-risk kids.
00:29:39
And I remember being in in-school suspension with him. And I remember one time looking over and seeing him, just the back of him falling asleep.
00:29:50
Just, I don't know if you had in-school suspension in your school. Your head tottering on Well and each of us had to be in like a cubicle Like you couldn look at or see anybody You had to do all your classwork and they deliver my classwork to me And I was sitting
00:30:07
there thinking, look, I don't do my work outside of in-school suspension. So I don't know who they
00:30:13
think is going to be doing this work that's being delivered to me in in-school suspension. It would
00:30:19
just pile up. But I look over and I see his name was Ricky and I see the back of him and just slowly
00:30:26
falling asleep and then just fell out of his chair, having nothing to do with what he was
00:30:32
going to later do. But I just was in the circles of him. He was not somebody I ever had plans with
00:30:39
or had his phone number. But yeah, after he had dated my friend, I guess he was gifted
00:30:46
a shotgun by his parents. This was in Texas. And he drove up to our school one day. He was 15.
00:31:00
We weren't old enough to drive. He drove his dad's pickup truck to our school and told
00:31:08
the principal, you know, I can't remember if he said, I killed my parents. or if he said my parents are dead.
00:31:20
But I do remember that his mother was, I think, putting clothes away in the hallway upstairs.
00:31:29
And then over the balcony, his father was in a recliner and his brother had headphones on
00:31:36
and was sleeping in his bedroom, listening to music. And he shot his mother and then over the balcony shot his dad.
00:31:46
And then he threw the rifle in the lake. And then he drove up to school. And I know that later, I don't know if it's true,
00:31:57
but I think he claimed that, I think he was adopted. I think he claimed that there was abuse that had gone on in his upbringing.
00:32:04
But I don't know. And I don't know if you have any comment or questions about that.
00:32:11
Well, I do. I actually do have a question. So he didn't do anything to his brother.
00:32:15
Oh, so his brother just basically, when he finally got up, found his parents dead?
00:32:22
Yeah. Yeah. And the crazy part was also that that was around the time that that Skid Row song,
00:32:33
remember the band Skid Row, had that song 18 in Life? Yes. And the kid's name is Ricky.
00:32:40
In the song. In the song. Yeah. And that kid's name was Ricky. Oh my God. And did they send him to jail for life?
00:32:48
I believe, I don't know where he is now, but yeah, I think he was tried as an adult.
00:32:55
It does say a lot to me. And I mean, obviously I'm not a professional anything, but that he shot the two people he wanted to shoot.
00:33:04
Nobody else got rid of the gun, not to hide evidence, just to get rid of the gun
00:33:10
and then went and told an authority figure. I don't know why, but to me, that does say that there was some abuse going on, that he was so methodical about it because he
00:33:20
wanted these two people gone. Yeah. And you know, it's funny because as I'm telling this story,
00:33:27
what is so insane to me is that I remember when everybody was like, oh my gosh, Ricky drove his truck up to school and his parents are dead and somebody shot his parents or he shot
00:33:41
his parents. And I remember, of course, it was shocking to find. I mean, it was so a lot to
00:33:49
process. But also what I couldn't believe was that he drove the truck up to school. I remember being
00:33:56
like, whoa, Ricky drove his parents' truck up to school. It just seemed so... That was your brain's way of being like, as all of the crazy adrenaline and shock is going into
00:34:10
your brain. It's like, okay, everyone over here, let's focus on this driving thing.
00:34:14
Nothing to see over there. Yeah. Let's talk about Ricky driving the pickup truck up to school.
00:34:20
Yeah. Yeah. I can't handle this part yet. So let's... Because that is one of those kind of
00:34:28
like teenage adolescent events where it's like, and then the world is different from there on out.
00:34:35
like that idea that that would even be possible. Well, I remember as it took, I mean, every year for a long time,
00:34:44
I would think, whoa, Ricky is still in jail. Wow, Ricky is still, and I would hit milestones in my life.
00:34:52
I don't think about Ricky anymore until this podcast came up. But I don't, I just,
00:34:58
he doesn't really cross my mind. But I would say for a good 10 years, I was, and that was,
00:35:03
I think we were like 14 or 15, something like that. And I would say, yeah, a good 10 years, I would hit a milestone or I would reflect and think,
00:35:12
Ricky is still in jail. That all of our lives moved on and we're moving to different states or traveling Europe or going to college or falling in love or whatever it is.
00:35:26
And whatever caused Ricky to do this, which is always the question, I think, is have you changed?
00:35:36
Are you a different person? Do you have regrets? Are you still angry? What? Yes.
00:35:42
You know? Answers. Yeah. Yeah. So that was somehow I, in my childhood, there were two murders that surrounded my life.
00:35:54
Yeah And that was the first It was big Yeah It was on the front page of the news the following day And yeah Did your school have any kind of like counseling
00:36:07
Did they make an announcement? No. No, no, no. Was it the 80s? We're the same age, I think.
00:36:12
So it was the 80s. It was kind of like, guys, take care of this yourselves. You might want to smoke pot down in the creek.
00:36:18
You might want to drink extra beer at the kegger this weekend. Right. That's really all we have for you.
00:36:24
Yeah. Guys, Ricky killed his parents. Heads down. Let's keep moving. Yeah. You know?
00:36:29
Right. Almost like this has nothing to do with you. So why would you be upset? That kind of like mentality.
00:36:35
You know, I do think that there was like a string of suicides that happened at our school
00:36:42
in high school. And I do remember there was therapy at that point because it was just a chain of kids
00:36:50
that were killing themselves. And so I do remember that. Whereas when the murder happened, you just went home and processed that.
00:37:03
Mid-80s, right? It was probably the beginning of the 24-hour news cycle. It's not the kind of thing that was so normalized.
00:37:10
Like I just saw a headline that said this weekend there were three mass shootings in America.
00:37:17
And we're not registering them anymore. Like it's kind of like you see it and you just kind of go, oh, what city?
00:37:23
Oh, I mean, I should say I do. What city? Oh, okay, whatever. But it's like there was a time that stopped everything and the conversation completely
00:37:32
focused on that. And now it's just been normalized entirely. And you know, I don't know if this is good or bad, but probably nine months ago, I stopped
00:37:43
reading the news. I'm so, I picture myself on a raft. I don't follow pop culture. And then I stopped reading the news. So I picture myself on a raft
00:37:56
that got cut loose and I'm just drifting away into nowhere. I don't know where I'm headed,
00:38:03
but I was starting to feel like, why am I taking in all of this terrible information that I,
00:38:13
if I can't do something about it, what good is it doing? And if I can do something about it,
00:38:18
then I better be trying to do something about it. And instead of just being this receptacle for negativity,
00:38:27
I couldn't do it. And so I just listened to a five minute news podcast when I want to know what's going on.
00:38:35
Or Stephanie will say, hey, do you want to know about the QAnon people? And I'm like, no, I don't.
00:38:43
That's why I don't. That's why, you know, but every now and then she'll say, hey, do you want to know about this?
00:38:50
And then I'll be like, well, what happened? I'll find out weeks after a new variant
00:38:54
is like making its rounds. I just won't even know. But everything becomes truly breaking news to me now.
00:39:02
Whereas on TV, it says breaking news at the bottom, but that doesn't mean anything.
00:39:07
Whereas now somebody will say, oh, there was this girl and her boyfriend, they were traveling and she went missing
00:39:14
and then he was hiding in the swamps. And I'm like, what? And they're like, oh, you didn't hear about that?
00:39:20
And I'm like, no. And they're like, oh my gosh, the whole world's been following this story.
00:39:24
And I'm like, didn't have a clue. I don't cheat and sneak and read anything. I'm like out of it.
00:39:30
I don't know if it's good. I don't know if it's good or bad. I can't imagine it's bad in any way at all.
00:39:37
As long as you're like checking in and making sure you're not like missing anything important
00:39:42
that you could actually, then fuck it. I check in very rarely, very rarely. And I used to be on it, on everything.
00:39:50
And now I'm like, please, if I cannot make a difference or if it's sensational, I can't
00:39:58
involve myself unless it's in a documentary that I'm covering on my podcast. You want the full story, fully produced story delivered.
00:40:08
Yes. I'll watch a movie about something that is sensational, but I will not seek it out.
00:40:14
I can't do that to myself anymore. Do you feel better? Like, has it actually improved?
00:40:20
It has drastically improved my life. And trust me, there's plenty more improvement I need in my life.
00:40:28
But that is something that I was lying in bed one night and I was like, what is wrong?
00:40:33
What feels off? And I went back to the news. It's bothering me. And so I just really cut it off.
00:40:41
And then I didn't trust that I was going to really commit to it. but I'm telling you, it would shock you what I don't know is going on.
00:40:54
It would shock you. I think it's good. Well, even people with a ton of access to it don't know what's going on
00:41:00
because that's not the point of news. It's to get you to keep clicking and clicking and clicking.
00:41:05
Right. Right. So I aspire to do what you're doing. It's just so hard. Well, and that feeling of, George and I have talked about this a ton because social media is, it's just a given, right?
00:41:18
So it's kind of like saying I'm not going to eat breakfast anymore or whatever. Like it's this thing that feeds a certain part of you.
00:41:24
And so that idea of giving it up, there's a real emptiness it leaves behind. It's just a very difficult relationship where it's like, if you're gone, I feel terrible.
00:41:37
And if you're here, I feel worse. I was flipping through, it's like speed scrolling through Twitter last night. And it truly was,
00:41:45
it's like people posting other people fighting. There's so many sets and subsets of, it's all
00:41:52
different versions of conflict whether it like passive aggression people being like oh good one bestie or whatever or straight up like political polarized insanity I just like what is this doing And it two in the morning I
00:42:07
just laying here kind of like looking at it, feeling the need to not miss anything, I think.
00:42:14
Yeah. And then you end up missing so much in other ways. Your life. Life or sleep or, you know, all of the other things.
00:42:27
Yeah, there's other things. There's a bunch of other things. There are other things for sure.
00:42:32
Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:42:37
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:42:48
And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:42:58
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy. How it shapes our identities and relationships.
00:43:05
And how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know, but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:43:15
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:43:20
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:43:25
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:43:33
Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people. Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
00:43:41
She trained in something called neurolinguistic programming. People loved our training.
00:43:46
Then everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
00:43:54
A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
00:44:01
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:44:09
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:44:14
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:44:21
It's mental health month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.
00:44:29
This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:44:38
I feel like a bad podcaster because I'm like, are we just chatting right now? Like I so am enjoying just talking to you and catching up on your life.
00:44:48
I didn't know you only went through until seventh grade. Like the idea that I didn't know that before is fascinating.
00:44:54
Yeah. Seventh grade education right here. I got my GED and then my cat ate my GED.
00:45:02
I have it framed on my wall in my office. There's two corners that have been chewed out of the GED certificate.
00:45:12
And then there's little bite marks throughout the rest of the certificate. Oh my God, that's the cutest thing I've ever heard.
00:45:19
Yeah. And there was such an emphasis put on education growing up. And it was such a moment of pride for me to know that my cat ate my GED and that it ended up in the litter box.
00:45:34
and then framing my GED and putting it on my wall. It just, nothing feels better.
00:45:42
And nobody's ever asked for it. Nobody, there's never been a moment, you know, when I dropped out,
00:45:47
my mother was like, well, you got to at least get your GED. So I was like, okay.
00:45:51
And somehow I passed and got my GED. And then here's this. This is just randomly sitting here.
00:45:58
This is my plant-based nutrition certification that I got during the pandemic. So I need to have that framed.
00:46:08
But first, give it to the cats, please. And let's see what they have. Let's see if they want to have a nibble.
00:46:14
Do you want to talk a little bit about plant-based diets before you go? Yeah. How do I get healthy, please?
00:46:20
I'm always fearful that I switch into an annoying gear when I talk about plant-based food.
00:46:26
I'll just say that I had deadly diseases from cancer to C. diff, which is a intestinal disease that nearly killed me.
00:46:39
And the after effects of everything that I went through, I've dealt with over the past 10 years.
00:46:45
And I just tried plant-based food and it's helped with pain, inflammation. It's helped with, I think, prevention.
00:47:00
I'm hoping that it will keep things at bay. But yeah, I've become the person that puts emphasis on my diet, exercising every day,
00:47:10
getting sleep. I'm very much in that direction. And I was telling Karen the other day that I thought about consulting in my free time.
00:47:19
I was just going to ask you where I can sign up for you to tell me everything I'm doing wrong.
00:47:25
Well, I have helped people from my next door neighbor to other comedians, people that have different health issues. I'm certainly not a doctor.
00:47:33
Yeah. But I have some knowledge. And when people are interested, I've tried to help them in my free time. And I started to think,
00:47:40
oh, maybe I'll offer this as a service. I'll start consultations. And then I was just like,
00:47:46
I do not have time to start hourly consultations. Right. You know, I've done some streaming shows
00:47:55
where I've talked about plant-based food and I've showed people... easy meals that they can prepare when everyone's like, it's so difficult. It's so expensive. It's
00:48:06
impossible. It's disgusting. It's all of these things. And I'm like, it's really not. And I think
00:48:12
people assume that I'm eating this way against my will and waiting until I can have meat or cheese
00:48:23
and that I'm just constantly tortured by the fact that I can't eat like that. But the fact of the
00:48:28
matter is I have so much information that it's a hard no. And it's not a struggle. It's a pleasure.
00:48:36
It's just really changed my life. Yeah. That's what they say is when you get the positive effects
00:48:41
from it, you stop craving the things that make you feel terrible because you realize that gut
00:48:47
biome is not going to heal itself. No. And that's what almost killed me, my gut biome. In fact,
00:48:54
On a very unfortunate note, the disease, C. diff, that I contracted 10 years ago that almost took my life, my stepfather got and died from two weeks ago.
00:49:07
Oh, no. On the 10-year anniversary of taking my mother off life support, I had to take my stepfather off life support.
00:49:16
The 10-year anniversary to the day. Oh, my God. And he died of the disease I had 10 years ago.
00:49:22
And so I can't emphasize enough to people that if you take antibiotics, take probiotics simultaneously because C. diff is no joke.
00:49:37
And it very sadly took my stepfather's life. I'm so sorry to hear that. Thank you.
00:49:44
Yeah, that's awful. I remember when Flanagan told me that he went and saw you in the hospital and basically kind of told me how bad you were doing, where I was like, no, she already went through that.
00:49:55
I almost was going to argue with him of like, no, she already went through a really bad illness.
00:50:01
Like, that's crazy. It's just like, I don't understand what you're saying. But you're saying you think C. diff had to do with the after effects of the cancer treatments that you went through?
00:50:14
No, what happened was I, all of that was in a four month period of time. I had pneumonia.
00:50:21
Yeah. And then I couldn't kick pneumonia. And when I went to urgent care, they prescribed antibiotics for me.
00:50:31
And then I got, I mean, I was nosediving. I got so ill. And then I ended up hospitalized and they said that the antibiotics caused me to contract C. diff.
00:50:46
Because C. diff is a bacteria in your gut and it's fine. It's in with other bacteria and they all work together.
00:50:56
But antibiotics can clear out all of the bacteria in your gut and leave C. diff alone to thrive.
00:51:04
And then it just grows and takes over and just eats your insides. And so I had pneumonia, then contracted C. diff.
00:51:14
And just during that time, just to add to the suffering, my mother tripped and hit her head and died.
00:51:23
And then my girlfriend and I broke up. And then I was diagnosed with invasive cancer.
00:51:29
And so that's what happened in those four months. And that is a true crime. What happened?
00:51:37
There's your true crime. Yeah, this is my true crime. It's almost like you're explaining the plot of one of my favorite shows, One Mississippi.
00:51:49
It's so weird right now. Yes. And very sadly, that's who passed away was the character Bill from One Mississippi.
00:51:58
And it's just... I feel like I know your stepdad. I'm so sad to hear that. He raised me since I was two. It's not like he was some random guy that came in when I was a
00:52:07
teenager. And so it was shocking. And it was such a haunting full circle thing. The 10 year anniversary
00:52:17
of taking my mother off life support And then he died of what I had 10 years ago There something in there that like there like a story there It just it doesn make
00:52:28
sense. It really doesn't. And it's just, it's so sad. He just adored my sons and, you know,
00:52:35
whatever you have to, you just, it happened and it's terrible. Yeah. It's terrible. It's really
00:52:44
terrible. I'm so sorry. Yeah. And I think too, in midlife, we start experiencing these losses
00:52:50
that we start to realize are inevitable. And I'll never forget when my mom died.
00:52:57
And I think I just put like a small thing on Twitter and Sarah Silverman DM'd me and said,
00:53:03
welcome to the dead mom's club. And it was one of the most, I was just kind of like, oh,
00:53:08
that's right. It's, I think this only happened to me. And like, this is the kind of loss
00:53:13
that lots and lots of people go through all the time, but you go through it by yourself
00:53:19
because there's no, you know, it's isolating and difficult and it's not the kind of thing you want to explain
00:53:27
or express or be emotional. You know, it's just, it's truly a burden. I mean, it just makes sense.
00:53:34
It's like, yeah, don't fucking read the news. There's plenty of shit to deal with, you know,
00:53:38
right on our front doors every day. And also there's... plenty of people who are still here that we're not appreciating and not thinking, hey, these
00:53:49
losses can come at any time. Well, you know, it's so true. When my mother died, I remember my
00:53:54
stepfather, we had our friends and family over to have a celebration of life. And my stepfather,
00:54:00
who was so tightly wound in his intense, stoic way, he made a toast at the memorial, which my
00:54:10
brother and I were looking at each other like, well, this is crazy. And he made a toast and he
00:54:16
said, you know, I'm kicking myself that I never had anybody over when she was alive to have this
00:54:23
gathering. And then I didn't even learn because there I was having a memorial for him in his house
00:54:31
a week ago. And I'm kicking myself that I didn't have our random childhood friends over to celebrate
00:54:40
as my kids called him Cowboy Rick because he lived in Texas to celebrate Cowboy Rick.
00:54:47
And that is what I walk away from this going, anyone listening to this? Just surprise somebody,
00:54:55
especially an elderly person. And just don't tell them it's a party for them. Just have people over
00:55:01
and just have a celebration. Yeah. And I just can't believe I didn't learn Because I didn't think he was going to die.
00:55:11
Although, can I point out, first of all, you never think, especially parent figures.
00:55:16
You just don't think they're going to die. It's very surreal, the whole experience.
00:55:21
But you just talked about you live with Stephanie's dad. Like you actually are doing that on a daily basis right now.
00:55:29
It's just a different relationship. But that was the first thing I thought of is kind of like, I think you learned in some ways.
00:55:34
because there'd be, I think a lot of people have had the opportunity to like live with
00:55:38
in-laws and it's like, oh, I couldn't handle that or this or kind of making it a different thing.
00:55:43
And it's like welcoming that generations into your house and into your life like that is,
00:55:50
you know, you're doing it. Yeah, for sure. And I did think after that happened that maybe I should
00:55:55
mention to Stephanie, like, you know what we should do? Cause he loves our friends so much.
00:56:01
Like when we have our friends over, he is just like having a drink and little crackers and cheese,
00:56:08
you know, vegan cheese. But he's, you know, he's having a blast. And I was thinking, I should tell Stephanie,
00:56:15
we should just have all of our friends over, have a blast, and then tell them in the middle of the evening,
00:56:23
this was for you. We wanted to celebrate you because people will say no before and say don't,
00:56:30
because my brother wanted to throw a big party for Cowboy Rick in our hometown of Mississippi.
00:56:34
And Rick was like, no, no, no, for his upcoming birthday. And so I'm realizing we should have just done it.
00:56:41
And he would have gone to the party And then you turn and go this is for you And you can get out of it It just a fun celebration Yeah But can I also say I know who Cowboy Rick is
00:56:54
And I'm sad about the dad that I watched in your beautiful show that you portrayed so carefully and humbly and wonderfully.
00:57:05
You kind of did have a party for him because everyone who watches that show knows and loves him.
00:57:11
For sure. And that's a beautiful thing. I mean, nice. Well, thank you. And he loved the show.
00:57:16
And he thought John Rothman did such a beautiful job at portraying him. He didn't have a single complaint.
00:57:25
I thought he was going to be like, I didn't like how you approach that about your mother
00:57:29
or this or that issue. Or he was beaming with pride. And it is something I'm so thankful that I can walk away with one Mississippi and I can
00:57:41
rewatch it and that there were so many people that just, I mean, it was a show about Cowboy
00:57:48
Rick. It really was. He was the star of the show. And one of my favorite things, and I know we can move on, but one of my favorite things
00:57:57
that he said to me after being so tightly wound through my whole childhood and not understanding
00:58:04
me and my failures and my confusion and my wandering. After we buried my mother and we
00:58:12
drove away from the cemetery in Mississippi, he cried for the first time I ever saw him.
00:58:18
And he apologized for not being more supportive and for projecting onto me what he thought I
00:58:27
should do. And he said, I'm realizing now that it's not the child's responsibility to teach
00:58:37
the parent who they are. It's the parent's responsibility to learn who their child is.
00:58:44
And I didn't do that. And I am sorry. And he said that through tears as we drove away
00:58:50
from burying my mother. And I could not believe she didn't see that. But I also felt like
00:58:57
if she knew that happened, she would have been like, it doesn't matter when it happened.
00:59:01
The fact that it ever happened is what's important. Yeah. That's an amazing sign of character.
00:59:08
Yeah. To be able to be retrospectively humble and apologetic to somebody to basically get the
00:59:18
point. That's what grief's all about. That's what loss is all about. Is you go, oh, this person's been taken.
00:59:25
You have all your feelings about it. But then it's like, and so now do you see the people around you?
00:59:29
Yeah. And so now do you appreciate what you have? Like, will this teach you? Okay, well, we'll see.
00:59:34
It'll happen again. So then we'll see what happens that time. But like, feels to me like Cowboy Rick got the message
00:59:40
and did the thing that I think is really hard for older generations to do. They weren't raised talking about feelings.
00:59:48
They weren't, men weren't supposed to have feelings at all. Right. Absolutely. No, he for sure, he would come to my shows.
00:59:56
He would visit Max and Finn. He shopped for them. And this is somebody that the only time he called me was to tell me my mother wasn't going to make it.
01:00:04
So this is somebody that just leaps and bounds came out of his shell. So for sure.
01:00:11
For sure. Anyway, it's all very intense. And I don't know how I ended up talking about that.
01:00:19
Well, we appreciate you sharing that stuff with us. I like it. Yeah. I like it. It's important.
01:00:24
And that's, there's your breaking news. Sorry, I ruined it. I ruined it. I had to tag it and I ruined it.
01:00:32
Yeah. Beautiful. Yeah. Wonderful conversation. Thank you so much. Thank you so much.
01:00:37
Thank you both for having me. Yes, we love you. And I you. I love you. So you have a show coming up at the Ace Hotel.
01:00:45
I believe it's Saturday, May 14th at seven o'clock. I do. Do you want to just do a little pluggy plug?
01:00:51
Might as well, right? It's my album release. Oh. Yeah. I had an HBO special last year called Drawn, and it was fully animated.
01:01:01
This is the audio that coming out but I doing an hour and a half of my new material The show is called Hello Again And I encourage people to please come out There is a moment in the show that I feel like people wouldn want to miss
01:01:21
That's all I'll say. Okay. Oh my goodness. Yes. Yes. And do you have a guest list? Can we come
01:01:29
to this show? Yes, please do. Okay, good. Please come. I'd love to be there. but I do think I know that you have a brand new opener for that exact set.
01:01:38
Do I? Uh-huh. So if I can move in the mic stand around. Oh, an opener. I thought you meant an opening act.
01:01:45
Oh, sorry. Just opening joke. Yeah, no, I'm so glad you reminded me of that. Please write it down on a little post-it note.
01:01:53
Thank you for the act out. Okay, just a quick note. Yeah, so that'll be a fun show.
01:01:59
And I'm just on tour and all the, you know, tickets and cities are at tignotaro.com.
01:02:07
And as we mentioned, I have Don't Ask Tig Advice podcast. And I have Tig and Cheryl True Story about documentaries.
01:02:17
Some true crime, some not. Some not. But if you love documentaries, it's a silly discussion between old, old pals.
01:02:27
It's a great idea. Yeah, I love it. Yeah. You talk about documentaries all day. Well, you're doing it all.
01:02:33
We're so proud of you. I'm doing it all. I got my plant-based certification. Literally doing everything possible.
01:02:42
Yeah. I'll be reaching out for that. And you're a judge. Well, I like to hold a gavel when I podcast.
01:02:52
Yep. It helps. There it is. Well, you want to close us out with a couple of wraps of the gavel?
01:02:58
Yeah. Yep, that's it. Podcast adjourned. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.
01:03:06
Bye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producers are Hannah Kyle Crichton and Natalie Wren.
01:03:20
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01:03:25
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