00:00:00
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Goodbye. Goodbye. Hello. And welcome. To my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
00:01:53
That's Karen Kilgariff. The end. Put a period on it. It's the end. Mail it. Stamp it and mail it and send it.
00:02:03
It's over. We've done it again. Why is it fucking cold now? I don't know. Stop it.
00:02:10
It's so ridiculous. I had to make a cup of tea. Oh. I was wearing flip-flops at the beginning of the week
00:02:17
or over the weekend. Now I'm making tea. Now you're a little British lady. By the fire with my shawl and such.
00:02:26
People, it's like the low 60s, by the way. But that's for freezing in LA. So don't at us, all right?
00:02:35
You know, you can, but we don't, we won't listen. We won't, we won't. You're going to tell us the weather where you live.
00:02:43
Yeah. It doesn't apply to the weather where we live. We just want you to understand how nonsensical
00:02:49
the weather where we live is. Right. I'm sure it's crazy where you live too. And I appreciate that.
00:02:55
And I can't wait to hear it on your podcast. Good point. Why are they already arguing with me?
00:03:01
I'm like arguing back already. I mean, here's the thing. We're starting the argument
00:03:06
and we're going to fucking finish it. That's for sure. Although it does give me a great idea
00:03:11
to develop a podcast called Weather Everywhere. Do they have that already? No, I don't know.
00:03:18
Weather podcast would be nice to fall asleep to, wouldn't it? Mm-hmm. Just a list. If you could list every city in the world alphabetically,
00:03:26
and then you just read off the temperature. Just like the highs today in Abu Dhabi were blah, blah, blah. That sounds really calming.
00:03:36
But then every time you get down to the L's, Los Angeles comes up and then the person just
00:03:40
starts screaming and going, what the fuck am I looking at? Wake up, motherfucker. What is this? It doesn't make sense.
00:03:47
I've been falling asleep to, on the Calm app, they have train stories where you, they narrate
00:03:56
a train ride and like on a famous train, like, and, and, and that it's also takes place in like
00:04:03
the 1930s and you're a, you know, you're a businessman doing this thing and it's like so
00:04:08
relaxing and wonderful and I fall asleep immediately, but it would be funny if they
00:04:12
had like a train horn at the very end of it. Next stop. And you're like, what? So wait,
00:04:19
there sounds like, it sounds like the train on the track. So it's like a rhythmic sound.
00:04:23
That's in the back, like very lightly in the background. You barely hear that, but it's like,
00:04:27
you get on and you, you're in business class. And so the velvet, you know, red velvet seating area
00:04:33
is so plush and beautiful. And, and then what you see out, out the window, what you would actually
00:04:38
see in the 1930s if you were on, you know, at the Himalayan railway or whatever.
00:04:44
Oh, wow. Yeah. Is it snow? There's snow. There's a snow one. You know, I mean, I don't know exactly what happens because I fall asleep within five
00:04:51
minutes, but I'm sure it's thrilling. What if right after you dip into full REM sleep, they start whispering about the Yeti?
00:05:01
And this proves that the Yeti standing on the mountaintop looking down at the train is
00:05:05
real. Oh, my God. and I just like have an unconscious belief in the Yeti because...
00:05:10
Yeah. No, I'm pretty sure someone saw it before. I don't remember who, but I read it somewhere.
00:05:14
I believe there was a train conductor. It was in the 30s. I can't remember. It's on my phone.
00:05:20
I'm a time traveler. It's on my phone. That makes me think of what I... And I'm starting to get worried about it.
00:05:28
I feel that I have to fall asleep these days to the... It's either 1985 or 1995.
00:05:36
It feels very old. That is old, sadly. Either one is old. Here it is. It is the...
00:05:47
No, they're showing pictures of the people in this TV show. I've talked about it on this show before.
00:05:55
It the Sherlock Holmes the British Sherlock Holmes that stars the actor Jeremy Brett who is if you like Sherlock Holmes and any of the iterations and you haven seen the
00:06:06
Jeremy Brett television series, it is so good. I'm pretty sure it's from the early 90s or the
00:06:13
late 80s. I can't remember, but it's on Prime. And Jeremy Brett is like, he's this classic
00:06:21
British actor that it seems like, you know, Matt Berry from What We Do in the Shadows.
00:06:27
Yes. It kind of seems like Matt Berry might be doing an impression of Jeremy Brett.
00:06:32
Okay. Especially as Stephen Toast, you know, when he has the extra flourishes. Yes.
00:06:38
He does that for real? I love it. There's a lot of acting, but it's so good. And then the pacing is such that I am always asleep before it's over.
00:06:49
That's perfect. That's all you need. A cup of tea, a nice cup of tea, some fire.
00:06:56
Karen's posing with her mug, by the way. You can't see it because... If Georgia says the word tea,
00:07:01
my shoulders get all scrunched up and I bring it to my face like I have my sweater sleeves over my hands.
00:07:06
And she does an open mouth smile like, that sounds like that. I'm the picture of relaxation,
00:07:14
but I'm only showing it to Georgia. Speaking of tea, enjoying it, I learned of a new...
00:07:19
Gossip? No, sorry. No, I meant literal T, T-E-A. Oh, okay, okay. Gossip could count too.
00:07:25
But I learned of a new term that I really love that I wanted to share with the group.
00:07:29
So all the things that trigger you throughout the day, right? Like this person does this thing and you see this thing
00:07:35
and it pisses you off and it triggers old memories and you just get upset. And like, we all know those, right?
00:07:41
Yes. Well, this one, it's kind of a more mindful technique and it's called noticing glimmers.
00:07:48
Mm-hmm. Have you heard it? It was on TikTok. I think I heard it on TikTok, actually.
00:07:53
The term was first coined by the writer Deb Dana. And essentially, it's just noticing the small little things that don't trigger you that
00:08:02
actually make you happy throughout the day, like a cup of tea. If you're walking and you see a beautiful garden and noticing those just as much as you
00:08:10
notice your triggers, because you definitely need a balance of it. And it's supposed to install peace inside of you and actually does something to your
00:08:18
brain when you're actually noticing those things instead of just a negative, which I definitely
00:08:22
need to do. Yeah. It's retraining the habit. So it's easy to notice the things that bug you
00:08:28
because those are, so you practice spotting those for safety. And that's like, that's a smart thing
00:08:34
to do for overall caveman survival. But yeah, it's like, it's basically, can I say one of mine today?
00:08:41
Because I had to, I had to drive over Coldwater Canyon, no brag. And I noticed, which is something
00:08:47
I noticed in my own backyard, but it's really there on the hillsides in the hills of LA.
00:08:55
There's been a super bloom of this yellow weed that's really tall. It's like, have you seen it?
00:09:01
Yes. I've noticed it everywhere lately. Yeah. It's like eight feet tall. It's bright yellow,
00:09:06
tiny little flowers. It's everywhere. And I'm telling you, I haven't seen big, tall yellow
00:09:13
weeds. Like it looks like someone threw wildflower seeds all over everywhere. And it's from those
00:09:19
rains. That's beautiful. I feel that way. It's amazing. Purple in nature too, always like gives
00:09:24
me a little thrill because you don't see it a lot. Yeah. It reminds me of like the ta-da list
00:09:29
instead of just doing, you know, we talked about that years ago, instead of just doing the to-do
00:09:32
list, you also write a ta-da list of things that are like, that went well today. Just like noticing
00:09:36
the positives instead of just the negatives. So make sure you pay attention to your glimmers
00:09:42
throughout the day is what they're called. Yeah, that's a great practice. I thought we were going to list things that bugged you,
00:09:50
like when you were talking about them at the beginning, because I was like, oh, I have a great one.
00:09:53
But then this also could be a glimmer because it did make me laugh really hard. When I came out of the CVS,
00:10:01
there was a woman sitting in her car with the door open because obviously she turned the engine off,
00:10:07
but she was still on the phone on the car speaker. And no joke, I thought the police were making an announcement in the parking lot.
00:10:17
This phone was so loud. And as I walked up, it's just this like little kind of older lady
00:10:25
sitting in her car with the volume on like 15. My God. And the woman on the phone was going,
00:10:32
and we, I think we just have to tell Joe, we're not accepting these excuses anymore
00:10:37
and that we're done. And I was like, I tried to make eye contact with her like, ma'am, like turn it down.
00:10:43
You don't realize. Anybody within truly like a 50 foot radius could have heard this phone conversation.
00:10:50
You think she was talking to her therapist or her like life coach probably? It was like, it seemed,
00:10:59
I assumed it was like a business meeting, but then that would be really funny if it was just like she got on the phone with,
00:11:06
you know, like somebody to be like, we need to tell this asshole we're not accepting his excuses anymore.
00:11:12
So someone's saying it back to her and she's just like- They're like hyping her up, right?
00:11:17
And she's just, God, yeah. She's got it turned all the way up with one foot out the door.
00:11:24
Like how many times you've done that where like you're having a public conversation
00:11:27
thinking you're being quiet and you're the loudest thing? Oh, that scares me. That gives me anxiety to think about that as that person.
00:11:34
Like I know I get, I think it's only fair for me and I never want to give it up to be annoyed
00:11:40
by other people constantly in life. I just kind of, it's kind of one of my things.
00:11:45
So that means that I'm not allowed to be annoying in life. You know what I mean?
00:11:49
Like I can't complain about other people unless I'm actually paying attention and being as polite and as you know as like following the rules and not bugging other people Then I can talk as much shit as I want and yell at people in cars because I perfect
00:12:05
I'm the only one. Sounds like a real catch-22. It's hard to be this perfect. I really is.
00:12:13
But yeah. Yeah. Really high standards. Yeah, I mean, I get that. I get that, but maybe you should just try
00:12:21
fucking up and yelling at people because it's like, hey, You might as well give it a shot.
00:12:25
Sure. That sounds kind of way more chill. Here's a glimmer that just popped into my head.
00:12:30
First of all, the second season of Somebody Somewhere Started, which is thrilling.
00:12:35
Episode two is on last night. And you have to wait for it because it's on HBO. I hate that.
00:12:40
You have to sit there and wait like a nerd. But this morning, I was watching clips of Roy Wood Jr.,
00:12:46
who is a brilliant comedian. He's on The Daily Show. I've known him from his stand-up days,
00:12:51
but he was the host of the White House press dinner that they just had. You know, the thing that...
00:12:58
Yeah. And when I tell you that he went in there and just started saying some shit to those people,
00:13:05
first of all, he was the funniest. Like, so clearly a seasoned comedian who has no fear.
00:13:12
Like, he's done it all. He does not, he's not afraid of any of those people. And he was saying shit to them.
00:13:19
Like, at one point he goes, Can we stop with the drag queens? Can we stop? Enough.
00:13:24
He goes, they're not going into kids' school. There's no grooming. Stop with that.
00:13:28
Stop with it. If they did go into the kids' schools, they'd get shot. And then the room tries to do a boo.
00:13:35
And he goes, don't boo me. Pass legislation. And then the room starts cheering. And I'm like, fuck, yeah.
00:13:42
Like, he went in there and told the truth to those people where it's like, you're all so fucking phony.
00:13:48
Like you're all making jokes. Meanwhile, this country is burning alive. Seriously, it's so ugly.
00:13:54
It's so ugly right now and scary and fucked up. Watch Roy Wood because he's one of the best
00:14:01
that I think has ever done it. And he's just saying shit to people. I love it. It's so funny.
00:14:08
It's really, really good. Speaking of funny and good, should we get to our Exactly Right highlights?
00:14:14
Yeah, let's do it. Hey, we have a podcast network called Exactly Right. and here are some highlights from it.
00:14:20
It's crossover week, maybe, on Exactly Right. Michelle Boutot and Jordan Carlos of Adulting
00:14:25
are Kurt and Scotty's guests on Bananas. That's a sweet crossover right there. All funny, hilarious, awesome people.
00:14:33
Also, Tess Barker of Lady to Lady joins Do You Need a Ride? So all your favorite hosts, guys.
00:14:40
That was a good one. If you're looking for a laugh, first of all, Tess Barker's laugh
00:14:43
is one of the funniest, most, like, what's the word? Robust. Huh. It's quite robust,
00:14:53
but it's also infectious. It's like, and we all are laughing the entire time. She's so smart.
00:14:59
Also, the first episode of 10 Foldmore Wicked's ninth season is out now. It's a historical true crime story
00:15:07
about a man who, you won't believe this, Georgia, used his religion to cloak his sinister side.
00:15:13
Yes. Yeah. Even back then. So be sure you're subscribed so you don't miss an episode of 10-fold more wicked.
00:15:20
Kate Winkler Dawson's just churning out those seasons and they're so good. It's such good podcasting.
00:15:26
She's great. And actress Gillian Jacob surprises Bridger with a gift on I Said No Gifts.
00:15:33
Oh, he's gonna be mad. Lastly, you know, summer is right around the corner. You wouldn't know that from the weather
00:15:38
in Los Angeles today. So if you're a Crocs fan, and who isn't really at this point?
00:15:43
I mean... You won't want to miss out on the Stay Sexy and the Murderino gibbets that we sell in the MFM merch store.
00:15:51
I didn't know there was a name for them. Yes, gibbets. Gibbets. They just keep making up words for shit.
00:15:57
Oh my God. Gibbets. Yeah, they have to. That's capitalism. That's true. How will I know I need things
00:16:03
and I'm not whole if I don't have a name for it? Is that your glimmer? Now there's a glimmer for you.
00:16:11
I mean, that felt great. It's not great. Just bashing capitalism. What do you do in those scenarios
00:16:19
where my glimmer is often being super negative? Yeah, road rage is kind of a highlight of my day.
00:16:27
I mean, you just do based on what feels good, right? Yes, what gives you that like boop adrenaline spike.
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00:17:40
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00:17:44
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00:18:14
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00:18:21
Goodbye. Bye. If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next,
00:18:27
there's a podcast you should know about. It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club,
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spanning a wide range of genres from sci-fi and literary fiction to rom-coms, thrillers, and comedy.
00:18:42
Cal is joined by guests who dig into what these stories are about, what makes them stand out as audiobooks,
00:18:48
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00:18:59
Goodbye. Okay, well, let me tell you about something because I'm going first, right?
00:19:05
Oh, yes, you are. I'm going to tell you a story about something that seems like we should have covered years ago
00:19:11
and is kind of this like obvious thing, but somehow we haven't. I'm going to tell you the bizarre history of the Ouija board.
00:19:20
Oh. And also a murder inspired by it. Ooh. Mm-hmm. There recently was a horror movie that came out.
00:19:29
I believe it was called Ouija. Mm-hmm. That was kind of about that. Took place in the 70s.
00:19:35
This isn't, you're not going to retell me a movie, a horror movie, are you? I hope not.
00:19:40
Remember when we were, I don't remember, wherever the home of Ouija boards is, which I'm about to tell you,
00:19:44
Someone gifted us a couple Ouija boards and you refused to put them in our... You made them pack them to send home somewhere else
00:19:51
because you wouldn't get on a plane with a Ouija board. And you wouldn't let me either.
00:19:55
I love it. Here's the thing. If there is, and we don't know, anything's possible,
00:20:01
but if there is some other... Realm, yeah. Other plane... Yes, thank you. Realm's a better word.
00:20:07
Another realm. Let's not build a little door to try to open and shut it. Let's just have there be no access to that realm.
00:20:15
Vince feels the same way and he is not a suspicious person. Like we've been in estate sales
00:20:19
and I've seen a vintage fucking Ouija board and he is like, you're absolutely not bringing that home.
00:20:23
All right. Just no, it's bad vibes. Okay. So the sources I used in today's episode
00:20:28
are a Smithsonian Magazine article by Linda Rodriguez McRobbie, a Nerdist article by Ty Gooden,
00:20:35
an article from The Guardian by Baynard Woods, a syndicated but unattributed article from 1934
00:20:41
entitled Kill Your Daddy, said the Ouija board. So I did. So now I just gave that away.
00:20:48
That was the entire headline? That was the title? They were really good at condensing titles back then.
00:20:55
And several unattributed articles written between 1934 and 1936 in the Arizona Daily Star and Arizona Republic newspapers.
00:21:03
And the rest can be found in our show notes. So here we are. It's not unlike your Harry Houdini story.
00:21:09
It's the late 1880s and spiritualism is at the height of its popularity in America.
00:21:14
People are obsessed. Spiritualism is the belief and practice of contacting the dead through various means,
00:21:20
including seances, as you talked about. Oh, actually, your Harry Houdini episode is episode 363, if you guys want to take a listen
00:21:28
to that. It's called Landed in Marshmallows, which I don't remember that. That's how you remember that it's Harry Houdini, because the title is so accurate and apt to
00:21:38
that. So it makes sense why spiritualism is so popular during this time in American history,
00:21:42
because it's in the shadow of the Civil War, which I hadn't really put together.
00:21:47
So death had been a huge part of American life. The belief in being able to reliably contact the spirit world through mediums provides hope
00:21:56
and connection to all these grieving people, because everyone's lost someone. But spiritualism up to this point has been kind of clunky.
00:22:03
There aren't a lot of mediums around. The messages aren't always clear. and seances can take up to several hours.
00:22:11
Sounds to her really boring. Yeah. You have to sit there and like be all in a closed up room.
00:22:17
It's all hot. I could see someone like faking a thing just to get it to fucking end.
00:22:21
You know, like, oh, I heard it. I heard a thing. That's where all the knocking comes from.
00:22:25
Yeah, it's people knocking themselves out. Being like, my fucking corset's tight
00:22:29
and I need to get the fuck out of here. I've got to go. There's some goop coming out of that lady's mouth.
00:22:34
What? You know those ones that was a big thing where people, ectoplasm, and it would be like someone
00:22:41
would stand up and then just all this weird goop would come out, but it was always photographs.
00:22:47
So it was trick photography, but that for a while was a big thing of ectoplasm coming out of
00:22:54
mediums' mouths. Sounds unpleasant. Yeah. So spiritualism needs a new angle if it's going to
00:23:00
be an actual lasting trend in American culture. So when something called a, quote, talking board
00:23:06
starts making headlines as a new vehicle for talking to the dead, a man named Charles Kennard
00:23:12
jumps on the opportunity to mass produce. There's capitalism, capitalism, capitalism. It's always
00:23:17
fucking- It's everywhere. It's everywhere. A talking board is basically a prototype for a
00:23:21
Ouija board based in Baltimore, Maryland, where we were when we were gifted Ouija boards. Oh,
00:23:26
Well, yes. You just put it all together. Charles brings together a group of men that he calls the Kennard Novelty Company,
00:23:34
the name of his business, in 1890. They're all experienced businessmen and they get to work.
00:23:39
Lovely Sarah wrote about what a Ouija board is for people who aren't familiar. But I feel like we all know what a Ouija board is, right?
00:23:45
And I don't need to explain it. You know, just in case there's somebody who grew up where none of that was allowed,
00:23:50
just summarize it. Sure, sure, sure, sure. It's like a game board and it has all the letters of the alphabet
00:23:56
divided into like these parallel crescents. one above the other, and there's numbers on it as well.
00:24:03
The words yes and no are prominently on the board. And there's a little piece called a planchette
00:24:10
that has a see-through portion on it. And that's what spells stuff out. Planchette moving, you know, seemingly by a ghost
00:24:17
is what moves, is what spells out whatever the fuck, you know, the ghost has to tell you.
00:24:22
What if it's just fuck? That's what I'm going to do when I contact from the dead one day.
00:24:28
That's how you'll know it's me. All the 12-year-olds that are playing with the Ouija board are all scandalized.
00:24:34
What? Mommy. F word. Two or more people place their fingers lightly on the planchette.
00:24:39
And according to the product description, questions can be asked of the spirit world.
00:24:44
And the planchette will be mysteriously guided to spell out answers. So it's like a shortcut form of communication through the spirit world or ghosts.
00:24:52
And this is perfect for what spiritualists are looking for in the late 19th century.
00:24:57
Boom. But Charles and his team are not spiritualists. of course. In fact, they don't believe it's possible to contact the dead at all,
00:25:03
but they believe in capitalism. Actually, she wrote that there too. Thank you, Sarah.
00:25:09
That's a theme. Yep. We're on the same wavelength. And having identified a niche,
00:25:14
they work on a talking board product that they think will dominate the spiritualist market and
00:25:17
make them all very rich, which I'm sure would piss off spirits if that were true, you know,
00:25:22
or maybe not. Yeah. They're like, we're just trying to send the message back that money isn't
00:25:26
everything. And then the irony. People have often assumed that the name Ouija comes from a
00:25:32
combination of the French yes, which is we, and the German yes, which is ja, which makes sense.
00:25:38
But the real story is that some members of the Kennard Novelty Company, when they were making
00:25:43
their prototype board, they found a medium named Helen Peters to try out their new product.
00:25:48
So the members of the company were there watching her. She asked the new talking board what it
00:25:53
should be called. And the Ouija board answered by spelling out the word Ouija. So it named itself.
00:26:00
I mean, hey, that's worth the price of admission right there. That's right. Then she asked for more information about the, you know, the name that had just been
00:26:08
given to her and the board just answers, good luck and signs off. It's creepy. Of course,
00:26:13
it worked. But Helen later realizes that while using the board, she was wearing a necklace with
00:26:17
the portrait of the author and women's rights activist, Wida. Her name is spelled O-U-I-D-A.
00:26:25
And so she had that portrait on her necklace. So she might've been, you know. Coming through and like.
00:26:32
Maybe. It'd be like, name it the Karen game, if it was me. Or Helen herself was unconsciously like thinking that
00:26:40
and just accidentally. That makes more sense. That makes more sense. Got it. Who knows though?
00:26:47
anything's possible. Regardless, the name Ouija sticks and it steals its place in American history
00:26:53
forever. So the last hurdle of the Kennard Novelty Company before they can distribute and sell their
00:26:58
new talking board to the masses is to get a patent. So basically, the World Intellectual Property
00:27:04
Organization, according to them, a patent is the, quote, the exclusive rights granted for an invention,
00:27:10
which is a product or a process that provides in general a new way of doing something.
00:27:15
There's no such thing as ghosts and they probably didn't believe in them that you're not getting a patent for this
00:27:20
because it doesn't do anything. So the patent person made the Kennard Novelty Company
00:27:26
come into the offices, bring a board and bring that medium, Helen Peters, to prove that it worked.
00:27:33
And the way the guy did it was he said, if the ghost can spell out what my first name is,
00:27:37
then I'll give you a patent. Thinking that no one knew his first name. He was Mr. Whatever.
00:27:42
So miraculously, the Ouija board correctly spells out his official name. He turns white and gets clammy.
00:27:49
He's totally spooked and convinced and he grants them a patent on February 10th, 1891.
00:27:55
And obviously historians later are like, someone in the fucking room knew his name, right?
00:28:00
Or he had a diploma from something right over his own shoulder. Helen's like, do-do-do.
00:28:06
I don't know, man. This is easy. Yeah, or like, yeah, it's pre-Google, obviously,
00:28:11
but if you were a smart business person, you would do a little, some kind of research
00:28:16
before you went in to like pitch something that important. Yeah, it's pretty ridiculous.
00:28:21
So soon enough, Ouija boards are in almost every American household. By 1892, just a year later,
00:28:28
the company goes from having one factory making Ouija boards to seven factories.
00:28:32
Wow. Just making fucking Ouija boards, including two in New York, two in Chicago, and one in London.
00:28:38
So part of the Ouija board's long lasting and universal popularity is that it's really user-friendly.
00:28:43
You don't have to be a medium to use it. It's, you know, more affordable than hiring a medium
00:28:49
and having a seance, which I'm sure isn't cheap back then. So, but when it first hit the market in 1891,
00:28:56
it was $1.50 for a board, which guess how much in today's money $1.50 was. It's not cheap for a fucking game.
00:29:06
$89? $50. But the right idea, you know what I mean? Above 50. Yeah. So Ouija boards' sales just skyrocket.
00:29:15
And they always do. So through the 20th century, Ouija boards, for the most part,
00:29:20
are considered a harmless and fun group activities for families and friends who are interested in connecting with the spirit realm.
00:29:26
However, some high-profile examples exist as outliers. Ouija boards have been implicated
00:29:31
in more sinister happenings. Some stories are very dark and some are very strange.
00:29:36
But today I'm gonna tell you about a murder with a Ouija board at its center. Wow.
00:29:40
Yeah. Did they completely make up that board pattern that wasn't based on anything?
00:29:46
They had talking boards already. So they might've copied that. I remember in the San Francisco airport once they had a whole display of talking boards from the past And there so many examples of them And this Ouija board just happened to get patented and mass produced So I think it was already a thing
00:30:05
Got it. You know. That guy just went and like took this kind of a folklore or like an old tradition and basically was like,
00:30:14
we're going to mass produce this kind of thing because people are so interested in it.
00:30:17
Yeah. And this is the basic layout for them. I don't, so I don't think it was that different.
00:30:22
Got it. Great question, Karen. Thanks. So I just, I didn't want it to be a gotcha question,
00:30:26
like prove where it came from or something. But then I was like, there's no way some like old outcast woman that lived in a forest
00:30:35
didn't make that board. You know what I mean? I could just see it where it's just like,
00:30:40
you know, some old German crone that everyone thought was a witch, that was her style.
00:30:45
Totally. Like she's been doing it since the 1700s and along comes capitalism and steals her entire idea out from under her.
00:30:52
What the fuck? I don't know what's going on. We're very political today. Why am I mad?
00:30:59
We're glimmering on capitalism. So it's 1933 now in rural Arizona. Here we are. The Turley family lives in a small cabin there
00:31:12
nestled in the White Mountains and surrounded by ranches. They're kind of far distance from the closest town of Springerville.
00:31:19
The family is composed of Ernest, who's the dad, Dorothea, who's the mom, great name.
00:31:26
Maddie is the oldest daughter. She's 14. And her little brother, David, who's around 13.
00:31:31
So their remote and desolate homestead is very different from both Ernest's and Dorothea's upbringing.
00:31:38
Both are from the East Coast. And Dorothea was even locally famous as a young woman.
00:31:43
She was a beauty queen who was crowned the quote, American Venus in 1916 because her body proportions perfectly matched
00:31:52
those of the famous Venus de Milo statue. No arms. Because she had no arms. Because I think she had arms, didn't she?
00:32:04
Venus de Milo statue doesn't have arms. I'm sure the OG statue did. The painting does.
00:32:10
Anywho. Are you thinking of the Venus in a half shell? Yeah. What's that? Venus in a half shell?
00:32:16
Venus power. That's what I was thinking of. That makes more sense. it was a statue.
00:32:27
Yes. So essentially, she's living this cosmopolitan life. She meets this dude, Ernest Charlie,
00:32:33
who's a Navy man. They live in Boston and New York and ultimately end up for some fucking reason
00:32:37
in rural Arizona. No offense, rural Arizona, but I don't want to be there at all.
00:32:42
I mean, especially in the summer. Truly. Oh, the reason is because Dorothea had asthma
00:32:47
and the desert air is supposed to be good for her lungs. Fine. Good. Goodbye. Sure.
00:32:52
Absolutely. So they're all bored and restless and they happen to have a Ouija board with them
00:32:57
to keep them occupied. So Ernest initially doesn't seem to believe in the power of the board,
00:33:02
but Dorothea becomes obsessed with it. She asks the spirit world for advice on everything she fucking does.
00:33:08
When she finds some stones in the backyard that have mysterious markings on them,
00:33:12
which were likely pictographs made by the indigenous people who'd lived on the land in the past,
00:33:17
she asks the Ouija board about it and reportedly it tells her that there's gold underneath them.
00:33:23
So she convinces Ernest to buy dynamite based on what the Ouija board told her. And he starts blowing up the rocks
00:33:30
looking for this gold. Oh my God. However, it does preoccupy him quite a bit, which might've been the point
00:33:38
because while he's blowing up his backyard, searching for gold that never turns up,
00:33:43
Dorothea starts spending time with another man. Oh. So she might've been like, keep this guy busy with dynamite.
00:33:49
I'm out. You know what the Ouija boar said, Ernest. That's right. You get that hell out of Dodge.
00:33:55
Get out. So this much younger man, he's a cowboy named Kent Pierce. He's described by reporters of the time as, quote,
00:34:05
a movie type cow puncher, big hat, neckerchief. So sexy. Tight pants and bow legs.
00:34:12
So she's out with him all day and night. Even tells the neighbors that she's having an affair.
00:34:17
She's just like really open about it. And this, of course, causes some fights between Dorothea and Ernest.
00:34:22
But it isn't until Dorothea and her teenage daughter, Maddie, consult the Ouija board that things start to take a dark turn.
00:34:29
Uh-oh. So according to Maddie, again, she's like 14, she and her mother are using the Ouija board on November 8th, 1933,
00:34:37
when Dorothea asked the board who she should be married to, Ernest or her cowboy boyfriend, which is like...
00:34:44
She's doing that in front of her daughter? Uh-huh. Lady. Not cool. Get it together.
00:34:49
Yeah. Maddie, says the board, of course, points to the cowboy Kent. And taking things even further,
00:34:56
the board suggests that Ernest needs to be killed. Whoa. Yeah. So in a complete escalation,
00:35:03
the Ouija board starts suggesting that Maddie kill her father. So the Ouija board's telling her this.
00:35:09
Obviously, her mother is fucking pushing the planchette around. Yeah. It's like, oh my God.
00:35:16
Yeah. But this poor girl, she's terrified and she believes it because why would you doubt your
00:35:22
mother? You also believe in spiritualism. You're young. So she totally believes it.
00:35:28
And if that mother is like a true sociopath type where she was like kind of, she had been
00:35:34
planning this, which is what it sounds like, where she's kind of like, I know what we could do.
00:35:39
Then she's doing it on purpose. And she's not even like, oh, I'm going to take care of the
00:35:44
nasty business myself. It's like, no, you go do it. So manipulative. And I'm sure it's not the first example of this mother being,
00:35:50
you know, a little bit narcissistic, if you will. Yeah The Ouija board actually spells out daddy must die What Which is like subtle as fuck right Well also when in doing Ouija board stuff
00:36:06
have you ever gotten like a sentence? Yeah. Like it doesn't work. Like usually you're putting together a weird long word
00:36:13
that you're kind of like, maybe it's this. And everyone's yelling out letters as they go
00:36:18
and nobody can figure out what it says. Yeah, there's no directive. There's no like, there's no, yeah, exactly.
00:36:23
There's nothing that's like, go do this thing. No. We'd be in a lot of trouble. Did you ever play and think it was real?
00:36:29
I did. Oh, yeah. My Aunt Jean had one. But it was that thing where I did too many things when I was like five
00:36:38
because my 14-year-old cousins were doing it. Like I was involved in things I should not have been involved in often.
00:36:44
And so that was one of them where like, you know when you're watching your older cousins get scared
00:36:48
and you're like, oh, this is bad. Like I didn't know what was going on. I just knew the vibe was bad.
00:36:53
is that kind of thing. That's why I don't like it. I did it with a friend who had a board at like a sleepover.
00:37:00
The board just talked about how pretty she was and how many boys had crushes on her.
00:37:04
And at the time, I was so amazed that it knew all this information about her, Nicole.
00:37:11
It turns out, I don't know. Like I thought, we thought it was real. I thought it was real.
00:37:18
Just a Ouija board going pretty, pretty. Nicole, you're so pretty. Nicole, are you okay?
00:37:27
Poor Nicole. Okay, so she's seen her mom trust the board with every decision she makes.
00:37:37
And she's watched her father even follow through with its instructions, you know,
00:37:41
so she totally believes in it and believes that she actually has to do it. So, and Dorothea, her mom is supporting it, of course.
00:37:49
Like, oh yeah, you got to listen to the board. She's writing it, yeah. She says that Maddie has to follow the board's command
00:37:56
and she won't even get in trouble for doing it because it's the board who wanted her to do it.
00:38:00
So according to Maddie, she tried to kill her father with a shotgun the very next day,
00:38:04
but couldn't bring herself to do it. Oh, this is fucking dark. I know. This is like,
00:38:09
this should have been the Ouija board horror movie. It's not. No offense. You guys did a great job,
00:38:15
but it's not. But it should have been. It's based on a true story. Yeah. So about a week later on November 17th, 1933,
00:38:23
when Dorothea and her son David are out at the store, Maddie and her father, Ernest,
00:38:28
are working together to capture a skunk that got trapped under the house. Maddie has her loaded gun with her.
00:38:36
And when her father has his back turned, the gun goes off. Ernest is shot in the lower back around his kidney.
00:38:42
He falls to the ground. Maddie is crying and apologizing. And she tells him it was an accident.
00:38:49
She says she tripped and fell. And the gun accidentally went off. And of course, he has no reason not to believe her.
00:38:54
He reassures her, it's okay, I'm okay. Tells her to go get help. Basically, he's brought to the hospital.
00:39:02
So the doctors are treating his wound and they put it together that the angle of the bullet entry into his body
00:39:09
doesn't match Maddie's story. You know what I mean? It's head on instead of up, obviously.
00:39:14
Yeah. Yeah. The doctors tell investigators they're certain that Maddie shot her father in the back
00:39:20
while she was standing and aiming. Oof. Confronted with this information, sweet, Maddie bursts into tears
00:39:27
and quickly changes her story about the accident. She, of course, comes clean about the Ouija board's instruction.
00:39:32
And Ernest, when he hears about it, replies, quote, that infernal Ouija board has been a thorn in my flesh for years.
00:39:39
It always told them to do whatever they wanted to do against my wishes. So he's like pissed about it.
00:39:45
He knows. Yeah, he knows. His wound is very severe. And after six weeks, he dies as a result of his injury.
00:39:53
So Maddie has effectively murdered her father, but Dorothea is being investigated too.
00:39:58
She's adamant the shooting was accidental, denies the Ouija board story, but police obviously know about the affair.
00:40:05
They know what's going on. And she had just asked her husband about, had been overheard asking her husband
00:40:10
about their multiple life insurance policies. Oh no. Uh-huh. So ultimately, Maddie is sent away
00:40:19
to a state-run school for girls, which is a desolate place for those with severe mental health issues
00:40:24
and criminal past. So it's not, in 1933, you did not want to get locked up in a mental health facility.
00:40:29
That was not a place to thrive. No. She's there for six years. Dorothea is sentenced to 20 years in prison
00:40:37
for her part in the murder. She serves two years, appeals her sentence, gets a new trial,
00:40:43
and miraculously, her conviction is overturned after two years. Jeez. So she walks free,
00:40:49
Maddie is not so lucky, even though she eventually graduates from the school, graduates, you know.
00:40:54
She seems, of course, traumatized by her past. She refuses to ever see her mother again,
00:41:00
despite Dorothea's public attempts at reconciliation. Oh, God. Which is not reconciliation if it's public.
00:41:07
It's for your own fucking attention. That's right. Yes. It's for it. Yes. It's to get everything lined up the way you want it to be.
00:41:14
But this poor girl who gets entirely like mind fucked and totally manipulated by her own mother.
00:41:22
So like, and then she- To kill her father that she maybe loved. I don't know if he was a good father.
00:41:27
Yes. I'm sure she loved him. Yeah. And then she goes to like probably a living hell situation institution for six years.
00:41:38
Especially as a kid, that's the most formative years, you know? Dark, dark, dark.
00:41:43
And her mom gets out at two fucking years. Super sad, terrible story. Well, you think, sorry, but you'd think if the mom was like sincere
00:41:52
and this whole thing was just a bad happenstance Yeah The mom would then dedicate her life to getting the girl out Yes Yeah Totally Take responsibility for it Yeah See you later I see you when you get out I mean man
00:42:08
So the Turley case, as it's known, shows how the Ouija board can be used as a tool
00:42:12
to take advantage of someone vulnerable and manipulate them. But for the most part,
00:42:17
Ouija boards are a different kind of tool. It's not proven, of course, that they are indeed a
00:42:21
gateway to the spirit world. And scientists are continuing to research how Ouija boards can
00:42:26
provide a window into unconscious thought, which I think is a really cool use for it.
00:42:32
The general idea is that Ouija boards function based on a psychological phenomenon known as the
00:42:38
ideometer effect, is that little automatic movements in our bodies can betray our unconscious
00:42:44
desires and thoughts. So it's not even Nicole doing it on purpose and saying how hot she is.
00:42:49
It's like she wants to be hot. She wants all the boys to have a crush on her. You know what I mean?
00:42:53
That's the thing that's most pressing as it is with most 12-year-old girls where it's like my popularity,
00:42:59
the way I look, am I accepted? Yeah. So she might not have, like there's no reason.
00:43:03
It's just she and I there. It's not like she was getting anything out of it, but she was hoping you'd go
00:43:08
and spread the word that she was pretty. No one listened to me. I was a nerd. But that makes it more believable.
00:43:17
That's true. If you're like there with your cello, like, guys, could you just for one second?
00:43:21
Guys. Everyone, she's being literal. I played cello as a kid. You know, the coolest instrument that anyone's ever.
00:43:30
The coolest slash saddest instrument. Yes. That's right. So certain devices like Ouija boards, pendulums, or dousing rods can enhance and amplify these
00:43:40
little unconscious movements, making it seem like they're being controlled by an external
00:43:44
force, blah, blah, blah. Additionally, Dr. Chris French, a psychology professor at Goldsmiths University of London.
00:43:51
Oh, wow. Georgia put a lot of spice to the gesturing and the interpretation of that title.
00:44:01
It was very like, what's this? What is this? How you say ooh. I look like I was in the show Downton Abbey, essentially.
00:44:11
Yes, you're searching for words with a gloved hand gesture. Exactly. Well, he says that because Ouija boards are used by a group,
00:44:18
no one can take credit for consciously controlling the board. And additionally, anyone using the board
00:44:23
typically has already bought into the idea that it might work, which totally makes sense.
00:44:29
So they're psychologically more ready to believe the outcome. So it's like kind of a perfect system for accessing the unconscious.
00:44:35
And there are current and future academic studies in the works to continue using Ouija as a tool for knowing the mind,
00:44:42
even exploring its application in understanding neurodegenerative diseases like Alzheimer's.
00:44:48
Oh. Yeah. Because maybe you're like concentrating on that instead of trying to express yourself.
00:44:55
It might be easier because it's unconscious. Who the fuck knows? I am not a doctor.
00:44:59
I didn't go to. Wait, what? Goldsmiths. Goldsmiths. Of London. Sorry. I couldn't get into Goldsmiths.
00:45:10
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. It wasn't a transfer from Los Angeles City College to Goldsmiths of London.
00:45:17
LACC, what's up? What's up? In the house. Great school. So over the last 120 years of the Ouija board, the game has had consistent popularity regardless of cultural beliefs and attitudes about it.
00:45:28
For the most part, Ouija has been popular with the mainstream as a relatively harmless and meaningful way to engage in grief work.
00:45:36
It isn't until 1973 when the movie The Exorcist comes out that the Ouija board starts to become affiliated
00:45:41
with the occult and Satanism. So that was, you know, spiritualism wasn't Satanism.
00:45:46
You weren't like ostracized for it. Throughout the 80s and 90s, Ouija boards become another horror movie cliche.
00:45:53
But nevertheless, despite the changed tune of the American public, Ouija boards persist.
00:45:59
They're so widely available and popular. And despite their dark history of being a tool
00:46:03
for powerful people to manipulate the vulnerable, Nicole. Ouija boards remain one of the most profound objects
00:46:11
we have for attempting to know the unknown. It really is like the only thing that you can think of.
00:46:17
And that's the bizarre history of the Ouija board and the Ouija-inspired murder of Ernest Turley.
00:46:23
Wow, that was a great one. Yeah. I mean, it just makes me think of the greatest like TikTok video of all time,
00:46:34
although I think it was on Twitter. So it might've been from Instagram. Remember the girl that's like,
00:46:40
my sisters, my 12 year old sister's having a slumber party and they're playing with a Ouija board.
00:46:45
And then it's just like a teenage girl just shutting on and off the lights on the-
00:46:50
Flicking the- Fuse box. What is it? The breaker. Just flicking the breaker in her sister's room
00:46:55
back and forth. And in the distance, you just hear a little girl screaming at the top of their lungs.
00:46:59
A little screaming. Oh, it's so cute. Just over and over. That's what all of this makes me think of.
00:47:07
So incredible. Because as long as there's 12-year-old girls having slumber parties, there will be Ouija boards.
00:47:13
That's right. That's part of America. Light as a feather, stiff as a board. Get out the Ouija board.
00:47:19
For real. Good one. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
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Terms and conditions apply. See pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. We're going to take a real left turn here.
00:49:09
And I'm going to tell you about a man named Paul Otake and the story of Japanese internment camps in America during World War II.
00:49:21
Oh, that's a great, awful topic. It's a great thing to cover because it was so awful, is what I mean.
00:49:29
Yes. The main sources used in this story are resources from the Bainbridge Island Japanese American Community website,
00:49:37
interviews with Paulo Taki from the Telling Their Stories Oral History Archives project,
00:49:43
the book In Defense of Our Neighbors, the Walt and Mildred Woodward story by Mary Woodward,
00:49:48
and the Bainbridge Review newspaper archives. And you can find the rest of the sources in our show notes.
00:49:53
And I should say at the beginning, our producer, Hannah Crichton, is from Bainbridge Island,
00:49:59
which is basically where this story starts. And the main players of the story are from there.
00:50:05
And so she knew this story and suggested it. So thanks, Hannah. So I'm gonna give you a quick review because this all starts with the attack of Pearl Harbor.
00:50:15
It was December 7th, 1941, just before 8 a.m. local time in Honolulu, Hawaii. So at the time, World War II has been raging throughout mainland Europe and also in the Pacific Theater.
00:50:29
But up until this point in 1941, the United States has not joined the war effort.
00:50:35
Until that peaceful Sunday morning, right around 8 a.m., a strange sound begins to ring from the sky.
00:50:42
It turns out it's hundreds of Japanese fighter planes. And they're launching a surprise attack on the Pearl Harbor military base.
00:50:50
And in the space of the next few hours, nearly 2,400 Americans are dead. Another 1,000 are injured.
00:50:58
The attack on Pearl Harbor is one of the most famous, you know, national tragedies.
00:51:02
I think there's a Michael Bay movie, I believe it's Michael Bay. You know, you're probably relatively familiar with it.
00:51:09
There's still in Honolulu, there's like a national park that's dedicated to where that attack took place.
00:51:16
As a country, we know a lot about the attack and how we got into World War II. But this part of what happened after that attack,
00:51:26
so few people know it's shocking. And I first learned about it when I lived in Los Angeles
00:51:33
and moved to Burbank and learned that Burbank used to be tons and tons of citrus groves
00:51:40
owned by mostly Japanese Americans. And that changed after this attack on Pearl Harbor.
00:51:47
So it was, of course, shocking, tragic. It was so frightening to every American.
00:51:53
The reality of war has finally arrived, delivered right to our doorstep by Japan.
00:51:58
And this further stokes America's already rampant anti-Asian racism, which is especially prevalent in the West,
00:52:06
where many Asian immigrants have settled. So Asian immigrants built the railroads,
00:52:12
you know, were a huge part of building of America. and as old as this country is,
00:52:18
we have our just age-old racism that comes with it. It's also baked into our federal law.
00:52:26
The 1882 Chinese Exclusion Act and the 1924 Immigration Act deny Asian immigrants certain rights
00:52:33
and pathways to citizenship. So this horrific attack on Pearl Harbor takes the racism that was already boiling in this country
00:52:40
and then aims it squarely at Japanese Americans. And that leads to the creation of 10 concentration camps on U.S. soil.
00:52:52
They will later be referred to as Japanese internment camps, which is basically prettying up the concept.
00:52:59
And although they cannot be compared, of course, to the concentration camps that were in Europe that the Nazis built,
00:53:07
they certainly, internment camps makes it seem like they sent people off just to stay for a little while and everything was fine.
00:53:14
And that is not the case. Over 100,000 people of Japanese heritage, the majority of whom were American citizens,
00:53:22
are sent to these camps and held there for years as prisoners without ever having been charged or convicted of any crime at all.
00:53:31
So this is the story of Paulo Taki, Walt and Millie Woodward, and the power of a small-town newspaper in the fight for justice.
00:53:41
Especially relevant these days, I think. Definitely. Bainbridge Island, Washington is a small island city
00:53:47
in the Puget Sound, which is just a short ferry ride from Seattle. The island 10 miles long it five miles wide and in the early 1940s it had a population of 3 full residents Of course just like every other American town this community feels the horrifying shock after the attack of Pearl Harbor
00:54:07
This town has its own newspaper, the Bainbridge Review, which would normally be closed on a Sunday morning.
00:54:14
But of course, with the news of the attack, the weekly newspaper's owners, Walt and Millie Woodward,
00:54:19
rush into their offices to get out a special edition for December 7th, 1941. Millie Woodward is from Bainbridge Island.
00:54:28
She meets her husband while they're both living in a different state, and then they come back home.
00:54:33
And for the first year that they own the Bainbridge Review, Walt is also a reporter for the Seattle Times.
00:54:41
So he has to pull basically a double duty, and so does Millie because Millie is raising their baby at the time.
00:54:48
So it's not until September 1941 that the couple is finally able to bring their full attention to running the review.
00:54:58
And so to celebrate, the Woodwards run a front page editorial that says, quote, we've taken a deep breath, drawn our own declaration of independence,
00:55:06
cut all business connections that we had in Seattle, and thrown our permanent lot with Bainbridge Island.
00:55:12
So they're basically announcing we've taken over this newspaper and here we go. Cute.
00:55:17
So the Woodwards are determined to evolve this small town newspaper from what may or may not have been known as like a bit of a gossip rag for, you know, local news
00:55:27
to a legitimate news source. And now this national tragedy is affording them that opportunity. So
00:55:33
they get to work putting out this special edition to give everybody the update of what's going on.
00:55:38
But as they do, they are missing a member of their staff, a teenager named Paul Otake, who works there
00:55:44
part-time as a typesetter and a janitor while he goes to high school. And Paul has just come out
00:55:50
of a three-week quarantine for scarlet fever. So he's physically recovered, but the news of the
00:55:56
Pearl Harbor attack stuns him and his family. It's obviously a world-changing event. Paul has no idea
00:56:03
how much his world is about to change. So Paul is a second-generation Japanese-American and a U.S.
00:56:09
citizen, obviously, by birth. But because of those anti-Asian laws that had been passed,
00:56:15
Paul's mother and father are not afforded the same rights as their children. They have no pathway
00:56:19
to American citizenship. They can't vote. They can't own property and they can't receive certain
00:56:25
government benefits. But the family's lucky enough to live on Bainbridge Island. So Paul grows up
00:56:32
mostly unaware of his parents' oppression. And that's in part because Bainbridge Island has a
00:56:38
very unique community. In the 19th century, immigrants from Japan, Scandinavia, China,
00:56:44
Italy, Germany, the Philippines, and beyond begin to settle on the island to work in the
00:56:51
local logging industry and later in agriculture. It turns out strawberry farming becomes an
00:56:57
important part of the city's economy. And according to Kevin Mahay, who's interviewed
00:57:03
in Podcast with Park Rangers, your favorite new podcast, Podcast with Park Rangers, Kevin says,
00:57:09
quote, there's a lot of integration in the community because this is an island full of
00:57:14
immigrants. Japanese Americans have farms alongside Swedish Americans and Filipino Americans,
00:57:19
and it became a very inclusive island compared to other places. Yeah. Inclusive in the 19th
00:57:26
century is pretty amazing when people were so separate. So for example, Paul goes to school,
00:57:33
his best friend is a boy named George, whose parents are German. And there's a mix of children
00:57:38
of all nationalities, but this special, you know, Bainbridge Island inclusiveness
00:57:44
is no match for the anti-Japanese hatred that blooms after the attack on Pearl Harbor.
00:57:50
276 people of Japanese heritage who live on the island are suddenly the subject of national outrage
00:57:57
and suspicion. So Walt and Millie's December 7th special edition of the Bainbridge Review
00:58:05
is not just straightforward coverage of the Pearl Harbor disaster, the Woodwards take a moment
00:58:11
to give their readers a stern warning about wartime hysteria. The paper's front page reads,
00:58:17
quote, there is a danger of a blind, wild, hysterical hatred of all persons who can trace ancestry to Japan.
00:58:26
That some of those persons happen to be American citizens, happen to be loyal to this country,
00:58:32
and happen to have no longer a binding tie with the fatherland are factors which,
00:58:37
easily could be swept aside by mob hysteria. Yeah. End quote. It's just such a, this gives me so much pause
00:58:45
because it is not a coincidence that all local newspapers are either being bought up by huge syndicates
00:58:52
that are right-wing, especially right-wing, or they're just going out of business entirely.
00:58:59
It's the kind of like community tie and humanity that we lose with that kind of communication
00:59:05
and professional journalism, along with lots of other things that are going on in this country,
00:59:10
it's part of one of the huge problems. Yeah, part of the decline of our civilization.
00:59:16
Yeah, and just that kind of thing of, if you're just getting what is essentially
00:59:20
kind of an editorial point of view brought to you as objective news, it's a problem.
00:59:26
Definitely. Especially when it's fear-mongering and it's people who are scared already
00:59:31
and it's just, you're giving them fodder of their prejudices and fears. And telling them it's okay to scapegoat,
00:59:40
you know, whoever you've decided is the other. Like you're kind of just getting fed this concept
00:59:46
that like, yes, something's wrong. It's not you, it's them. Totally. That isn't benign idea.
00:59:52
That's actually a very, as we are watching in our own country it a cancerous idea Yeah dangerous Horrifying Yes So this special edition of the Bainbridge Review loses the Woodward a few subscribers
01:00:06
and advertisers, of course, but Walt and Milley don't care. And their fears of a, quote,
01:00:11
wild hysterical hatred are actually playing out across the United States in real time.
01:00:17
According to the Library of Congress, within hours of the attack on Pearl Harbor,
01:00:21
FBI agents enter cities along the West Coast deemed particularly sensitive because of their proximity to Japan and, quote, round up and arrest prominent Japanese Americans, businessmen, journalists, teachers, and civil officials as security risks.
01:00:40
In many cases, people of Japanese heritage are harassed, beaten, and subjected to illegal searches as agents recklessly upturn their homes without warrants.
01:00:50
Within a week of the attack, 2,000 first-generation Japanese immigrants are taken into custody.
01:00:57
So it is just a sweep, a racist sweep. And these measures are met with total support from the American public
01:01:05
as newspapers across the country churn out fear-mongering propaganda. And this includes outlets like Life Magazine, Disney, and Hearst Publications.
01:01:15
On the West Coast specifically, almost every single newspaper in circulation pushes blatantly anti-Japanese content,
01:01:23
sometimes complete with racist cartoons and racial slurs. And here's a not so fun fact.
01:01:31
Dr. Seuss contributes hundreds of racist cartoons to a now defunct paper called PM during World War II.
01:01:40
Yikes. Horrible. Also the kind of thing that I think the perspective when big things like something like that happens,
01:01:48
where basically World War II gets brought to America and American servicemen and civilians,
01:01:54
there's a serious loss of life. People just go blind. They go and there's people,
01:02:02
that's why newspapers have to stay objective and have to like getting caught up in that kind of propaganda.
01:02:07
That is exactly how things like this happen. Yeah. So on February 5th, 1942, rumors swirl of an impending mass incarceration
01:02:16
of first-generation Japanese immigrants, so the Woodwards publish an editorial that reads,
01:02:21
quote, The time has come to bear out the truth of our words written two months ago in an extra edition of their review.
01:02:29
We spoke of a danger of wild, blind, hysterical hatred of all persons who can trace ancestry to Japan.
01:02:37
Up and down the Pacific Coast, in the newspapers, and in the halls of Congress, are words of hatred now for all Japanese,
01:02:43
whether they be citizens of America. Who can say that the big majority of our American Japanese citizens
01:02:50
are not loyal to the land of their birth, the United States? Their records bespeaks nothing but loyalty.
01:02:58
Two weeks later on February 19th, 1942, Roosevelt signs Executive Order 9066 calling for the forced removal of all persons
01:03:08
deemed a threat to national security from the West Coast to relocation centers further inland.
01:03:15
So although the language does not specify Japanese Americans, that is who this is targeting.
01:03:21
Yeah. Yeah. And this forced removal begins of all places in Bainbridge Island. Hmm.
01:03:27
Its residents are given six days to pack up one suitcase and move to a relocation center
01:03:33
a thousand miles away in Manzanar, California. Relocation center. What a term. Mm-hmm.
01:03:40
People are forced to make arrangements with their non-Japanese friends and neighbors
01:03:44
to look after their farms, pets, and belongings while they're away. But thousands of Japanese Americans
01:03:51
are eventually evicted from their homes. Others are forced to sell their houses and businesses
01:03:56
at drastically reduced prices. The financial losses are incredible. And people coming in and just like pretending
01:04:05
that it was never their land in the first place and just buying it after them. And that's basically how Toluca Lake was built.
01:04:12
Those were all Japanese-based citrus groves. And famous Hollywood personality, Bob Hope,
01:04:18
apparently came in and just bought it all and took it as if too bad for you. So in Bainbridge Island,
01:04:27
as the Otake family prepares to leave their homes, imagine that just someone calls and says,
01:04:32
you have six days, pick what you're going to pick, do what you will with your farm and your pets
01:04:37
and the life that you have built there. It's awful. So Walt and Millie reach out to Paul and they offer him a promotion as a, quote, camp correspondent.
01:04:47
So it comes with a sizable pay bump. And essentially, Walt tells Paul, quote, you got to report the news.
01:04:54
When you go down to California, I want you to send me a wire. So essentially, Walt is saying you are going to be the guy on the inside of this thing.
01:05:03
tell us how it's going and what it's like, and let us tell the rest of Cambridge Island.
01:05:10
Paul isn't sure he's interested. He doesn't understand how it can work logistically.
01:05:14
The idea that he would even have to be thinking about that when this is happening to him and his
01:05:19
family is so crazy. But Walt and Millie have it all figured out. They have connected with a guard
01:05:25
from New Jersey who's going to be stationed at the Otake's prison camp. So all Paul has to do
01:05:31
is write up his reports and give him to this guard. And the guard is going to send the
01:05:36
correspondence back to the Bainbridge Review via Newswire. So the Woodwards will then run Paul's
01:05:44
coverage of the day-to-day life at the camp in their newspaper. So once all this gets explained
01:05:50
to him Paul accepts the job Then on March 30th 1942 early in the morning army trucks roll into of Bainbridge Island Soldiers escort every single person of Japanese heritage ranging in age from 69 to nine months old
01:06:07
to Seattle via ferry. And from Seattle, they're loaded onto trains that are headed to Southern California.
01:06:14
God, how scary. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. Also, isn't it crazy we don't all know this by heart?
01:06:21
Yeah, totally. The Bainbridge Review reports, quote, The Navy and others who feared the presence here of Japanese aliens and Japanese American citizens breathed easier this week, for the island was cleared of every last one of its Japanese residents in the nation's first enforced evacuation.
01:06:40
There were others, though, who mourned their departure. They included Caucasians who gathered at the Eagle Dale dock Monday morning and wept unashamed as their Japanese neighbors obediently boarded the ferry for their last ride from the island for a long time.
01:06:55
A ride which was the first step in the government's forced evacuation of them to the reception center at Camp Manzanar, California.
01:07:04
The Japanese themselves remained outwardly calm for the most part. None created any disturbance,
01:07:10
although some wept when the actual moment came for boarding the ferry. For many days previously,
01:07:16
the Japanese made goodbye calls on their Caucasian friends. Especially tearful were the parting scenes at Bainbridge High School
01:07:23
where friends of many years were forced to part. So the scene that the Bainbridge Review describes
01:07:29
is heart-wrenching and unimaginable, but the decision to forcibly move Japanese American families
01:07:35
into those so-called relocation centers is widely supported by the American public.
01:07:41
Even though, quote, not a single documented act of espionage or sabotage was committed by an American citizen of Japanese ancestry
01:07:48
or by a resident Japanese alien on the West Coast. So there is literally no reason for doing this
01:07:56
except the fear it might happen. Wow. So in the coming months, the same techniques used on the island are implemented to carry out evictions across the United States.
01:08:07
Between March and May of 1942, over 120,000 Japanese American residents of Washington, Oregon, Arizona, and California are forcibly moved from their homes and incarcerated at 10 different camps in California, Arizona, Utah, Wyoming, Colorado, and Arkansas in one of the greatest human rights violations in American history.
01:08:32
One of Paul's last memories as he left Bainbridge Island is the look on these soldiers' faces that morning
01:08:38
as they escort hundreds of men, women, and children out of their homes. Paul says, quote,
01:08:44
Some of the soldiers who escorted us down couldn't believe what they saw. Some had tears in their eyes as they left us.
01:08:51
Oh, my God. Since almost every person in this country is from another country. Except for, of course, the indigenous people
01:08:58
who we then stole all their land from. Oh, God. The layers. Okay. On April 1st, Paulo Taki and his fellow Bainbridge Islanders
01:09:09
arrive at Manzanar, an isolated barren desert at the base of the Sierra Nevada Mountains.
01:09:15
It's basically kind of like east of here. Yeah, not cool. Not great. Not a cool place.
01:09:22
The camp is surrounded by guard towers and lined with barbed wire, but the building has yet to be completed.
01:09:29
According to the Bainbridge Island Japanese American Community website, quote, the facilities were still under construction
01:09:35
and it would be weeks before the plumbing, sewers, and other infrastructure would be complete.
01:09:42
Oh, dear. Mm-hmm. At its peak, there will be over 10,000 prisoners interred at this camp
01:09:48
and most of the inmates are from Los Angeles. Jesus. So Paul writes his first article reporting that the group arrived safely
01:09:56
and he hands that correspondence off to that New Jersey soldier who then sends it north via Newswire.
01:10:02
And Paul's very first article runs on the front page of the next day's Bainbridge review.
01:10:08
But of course, capturing conditions at Manzanar for the Bainbridge Islanders back home is not easy for Paul.
01:10:15
It's a tough task. It's a horrifying situation that he's in. He can't then just turn around and detach himself
01:10:22
and then write up a little report about it. And he's not a journalist. He's a teenager.
01:10:26
He's a teenager. The circumstances are horrific. Entire families are packed into small one-room bunks
01:10:32
with inadequate heating, no privacy. One inmate describes them as, quote, sheds with partitions dividing the sections
01:10:40
that did not reach the ceiling. If anyone made noise during the night, as often happened with young children,
01:10:47
it disturbed everyone. In the Otake's bunk, the flooring hasn't even been installed yet.
01:10:53
Paul remembers waking up on his uncomfortable straw-filled mattress set atop a cheap cot and being covered in sand
01:11:00
that had blown up through the unfinished floorboards. Oh, God. The lack of planning is clear in every corner of this camp,
01:11:08
as is the lack of consideration for the incarcerated people's dignity. The bathrooms, which are separated by gender,
01:11:14
offer absolutely no privacy. Listen to this nightmare. The toilets are set side by side in an open room with no stalls.
01:11:22
Oy. The showers have no partitions. So this makes going to the restroom and bathing a humiliating experience for the men, women, and children that are held there.
01:11:34
Meanwhile, the mess hall where inmates eat lives up to its name. The cooks aren't skilled in preparing food or adequately cleaning pots and utensils.
01:11:43
Paul says, quote, they didn't wash the kettles too clean. They didn't wash the detergent off.
01:11:48
We had our first meal and a lot of people went running to the bathroom. Some people thought we were being poisoned.
01:11:54
Oh my God. So beyond these basics, the government clearly hasn't given any consideration
01:12:00
about the daily life for prisoners, like how they're going to school these children
01:12:04
that are now stuck in this camp or providing places of worship or even just any areas of privacy at all.
01:12:12
But Paul continues to send short dispatches to the Bainbridge Review, always identifying the other islanders,
01:12:18
not only by their names, but by the neighborhoods on the island where they're from.
01:12:24
The job is hard for Paul. There's a mental toll being stuck in a prison camp. They don't know when they're going home
01:12:31
or what is going to happen at all. And so within a few weeks, instead of sending his usual correspondence,
01:12:38
Paul just sends a copy of the camp newspaper up to the Woodwards. Shortly after that, Paul gets a letter from Walt.
01:12:45
It says, dear Lazy Bones, I find the Manzanar Free Press good reading, but where's my Manzanar correspondent gone?
01:12:52
So you can imagine this is Walt's way. He's just trying to kind of communicate and nudge him.
01:12:56
he is not in any way visualizing or empathizing with the situation Paul and his family.
01:13:03
It's probably also, Paul is telling him kind of the facts of the story. Right. But the truth of the experience
01:13:11
is probably indescribable and horrifying. Yeah. And Paul isn't really sure if he wants to be a camp correspondent, quote unquote.
01:13:19
It's all just becoming too much. But then he gets another letter from Walt. And this letter, Walt is earnest and heartfelt.
01:13:26
and he reminds Paul that someday these camps will close and when that happens, Walt and Millie and many other islanders
01:13:33
will welcome their Japanese American neighbors back home. Walt admits that won't be the situation across the board,
01:13:39
that some residents of Bainbridge Island will buy into wartime racism and into anti-Japanese propaganda
01:13:45
and quote, they may actually try to stir up trouble. But the way Walt sees it, the best way to fight back against that mindset
01:13:53
is to foster a sense of community with Paul's camp correspondence. His words will be read by everyone back home
01:14:00
and they can keep the Islanders plugged into the lives of the prisoners at Manzanar.
01:14:06
Before long, the Woodwards launch a quote, open forum section of the newspaper. And here readers are invited to send in letters
01:14:13
to the editor that are guaranteed to be published so long as the messages aren't libelous
01:14:18
and are identified with the sender's name. Japanese internment is a mainstay of the open forum.
01:14:24
Bainbridge Islanders send in letters of both condemnation and support, and many letters, including a few deeply racist ones,
01:14:32
generate strong rebuttals from other submitters. But this section doesn't just consist of Bainbridge Island chatter.
01:14:39
Incarcerated residents send in submissions as well, which allows the island's Japanese-American residents
01:14:45
to maintain a voice in their community a thousand miles away. Wow, that's amazing.
01:14:50
Right? And the Woodwards continue to write heated editorials condemning the Japanese internment.
01:14:56
Often the Woodwards expertly connect those editorials right back to Bainbridge Island
01:15:00
itself. And in doing so, remind the non-Japanese locals how much their incarcerated friends and neighbors
01:15:06
contribute to their community. For example, in May 1942, Walt writes about how the high school baseball team's record
01:15:14
has been abysmal since the Japanese American students were sent to prison. And then here's part of that article.
01:15:22
Quote, you see, if Hideaki Nakamura were here, that second base spot wouldn't be such a question mark.
01:15:29
Hideaki was always looking like something good out there until Uncle Sam's soldier boys came along.
01:15:35
And if Harry Koba, the ever-smiling veteran backstop, was in a uniform, the catching problem would be gone.
01:15:42
Oh, we're not forgetting some of the others. There was Mori Teriyama, whose chuckling certainly would have bolstered the pitching state,
01:15:50
and we'll probably get a red-hot letter from a certain chap in Owens Valley, California,
01:15:55
if we forget to mention Paul Slugger Otake, the demon typesetter and center fielder.
01:16:02
So back at Manzanar, Paul begins warming up to his reporter role. After that last letter from Walt,
01:16:07
he begins to see the Woodward's mission clearly. The newspaper is being used as a tool.
01:16:13
The camp correspondents open forum and editorials all work together to create a compelling antidote
01:16:18
to hatred, bigotry, and hysteria. And that is through connectedness, empathy, and compassion.
01:16:25
So Paul starts roaming around the camp looking for stories. His beat becomes, as he calls it,
01:16:31
quote, everyday living in an American-style concentration camp. Wow. How fucking genius is that?
01:16:38
Yeah. It's a really good idea that puts so much pressure and weight on Paul Otaki.
01:16:45
Yeah. And then he just picked it up and went with it. It's just like, it's really beautiful
01:16:50
because it's a lot to ask a teenager. Definitely. To do. So now articles with the byline Paulo Taki
01:16:57
regularly run in the Bainbridge Review. His coverage is vast and varied. He talks about an outbreak of chickenpox,
01:17:04
teenage pranksters painting someone's face with lipstick while they sleep, and a Bainbridge Islander being a finalist
01:17:10
in the Camp's Beauty Contest. To Paul, every detail is worthy of coverage. In mid he even reports that quote George Hayashi 21 years old was in the camp hospital this week as a result of a nail infection on his right hand Paul also reports on deeply meaningful events
01:17:29
In late May, he reports that an elderly islander named Nabuzo Grandpa Kora has died of pneumonia and his funeral is held on campgrounds.
01:17:40
In August, he writes that, quote, Mr. and Mrs. Saburo Hayashida became the parents of the first child born to Islanders
01:17:48
since they were moved to this relocation center. The child is a boy. Paul's reporting makes it so that baby is the newest member of the Bainbridge Island community.
01:17:59
By the end of Paul's first year at the prison camp, he's regularly sending these dispatches to the Woodwards,
01:18:05
but he also sends personal letters to both Millie and Walt. Despite the distance, the three become close friends.
01:18:11
In July of 1942, Millie writes that, quote, we miss you around this place. That October, Walt tells Paul, quote,
01:18:19
you have shown your true colors by your fine record at Manzanar. Don't let it get you down for one second,
01:18:24
no matter how bitter or disillusioned you may feel. A real American just doesn't quit ever.
01:18:31
Ugh. And he doesn't. Soon, Paul's articles cover the young Bainbridge Islanders who are leaving Manzanar.
01:18:38
So now second generation Japanese Americans who are seen as less of a threat are approved to work temporary jobs on farms
01:18:46
or enlist in the military. Jesus. Hey, we're going to lock you up and take all your property.
01:18:53
Now go fight for your country. Now go fight for your country. Yeah. And by 1943, Paul is greenlit to leave the internment camp
01:19:02
and go to school in Chicago. The next year, he's recruited into the military intelligence service.
01:19:07
Paul goes on to serve the United States in the Philippines and Japan, where among other tasks, he interviews prisoners of war.
01:19:15
Back at Manzanar, new reporters take over Paul's Bainbridge Review camp correspondent beat.
01:19:21
Wow. They include Bainbridge Islanders Sada Amoto, Tony Kura, and Sa Kura. They basically pass it along.
01:19:30
Amazing. So by the end of 1944, many people are finally seeing the Japanese internment camps for what
01:19:36
they actually are, the imprisonment of innocent American citizens. That year, the federal government
01:19:42
announces that it'll begin closing those camps. On November 21st, 1945, about three months after
01:19:50
the end of World War II, Manzanar is finally shut down. Jesus. Yeah. Of the 125,000 people who have
01:19:59
been incarcerated there during the war, half of them are children. Oh my God. Two-thirds are U.S.
01:20:05
citizens. Over 1,600 people enter these camps and never leave, the vast majority dying from
01:20:11
illness while they were incarcerated. Although seven inmates are confirmed to have been gunned
01:20:17
down by guards. Oh my God. Many inter-Japanese Americans are released from these camps with
01:20:24
little to nothing to their names. Only the lucky ones were able to sell their homes or property
01:20:29
before being evicted, but most just lost everything outright. At the same time, Japanese Americans are still being met
01:20:37
with an overwhelming amount of hostility once they return to where they're from.
01:20:42
But over in Bainbridge Island, islanders of Japanese heritage are welcomed home with open arms.
01:20:48
And much of this is credited to Bainbridge's history as an inclusive American melting pot
01:20:53
and Paulo Taki's constant coverage in the Bainbridge Review. According to the Bainbridge Island
01:21:01
Japanese American Community website, the words of the Woodwards, Paulo Taki, and his successors at the camp,
01:21:08
quote, helped the island Nikkei, or the people of Japanese heritage, to return not as strangers,
01:21:15
but as the same old friends they were when they left. Wow. Four years before. It's horrifying.
01:21:24
The Woodwards have been honored countless times for their bravery and willingness to stand up for justice,
01:21:29
the newspaper was the only publication on the West Coast that consistently spoke out against Japanese internment
01:21:35
during World War II. As David Guterson, a Bainbridge Islander and the author of the book, Snow Falling on Cedars,
01:21:44
which also was made into a movie, and it's also Hannah's uncle. Oh. He once wrote, quote,
01:21:51
Walt and Millie Woodward are best known as defenders of the Constitution, who, after Pearl Harbor, stood against the internment of Japanese Americans
01:21:58
when nearly everywhere else there was assent. The Woodwards are civil rights heroes, journalists lauded by other journalists,
01:22:06
champions of freedom and servants of democracy, and duly celebrated, commemorated, and eulogized.
01:22:13
And there's actually a central character in Snow Falling on Cedars that was directly inspired by Walt Woodward.
01:22:19
Wow. But Paul Otaki and his family never returned to Bainbridge Island. Because his parents were not US citizens,
01:22:27
they could never legally buy property before they were evicted. And once they're released from incarceration,
01:22:32
they have nothing to go back to. But Bainbridge Island and the Woodwards remain deeply important to Paul for the rest of his life and he does go back and visit In 1989 Millie Woodward passes away at the age of 80 and in 2001 Walt Woodward passes
01:22:50
away at the age of 91. The same year, Paul compiles the dispatches he'd written during his internment and publishes
01:22:58
them in a book titled, It Was the Right Thing to Do. Paul says, quote, I want to make sure the story is told.
01:23:04
I don't want these young people not to know the history. In April of 2008, Paulo Taki passes away at the age of 83.
01:23:14
So after the war ends, there isn't a sense of overwhelming national outrage about the internment of Japanese Americans.
01:23:20
It seems impossible given how many lives were upended and how many people were traumatized
01:23:24
and the efforts of many Japanese Americans who, despite being made powerless, did all they could to protest.
01:23:32
But as decades pass, their advocacy movement blossoms. Survivors of these camps share their stories
01:23:39
and their children demand acknowledgement from the government. Their work is successful.
01:23:44
In the 1980s, President Reagan signs the Civil Liberties Act, which offers $20,000 in reparations,
01:23:52
which is around 50 grand today, to all those forced into prison camps during World War II.
01:23:58
It also offers a formal apology for Japanese incarceration. After signing the bill into law,
01:24:04
Reagan says, quote, no payment can make up for those lost years. So what is most important in this bill
01:24:10
has less to do with property than with honor. For here we admit a wrong. Here we reaffirm our commitment as a nation
01:24:17
to equal justice under the law, end quote. It's hardly anything. If you imagine the Japanese Americans
01:24:24
that owned citrus groves in Burbank and how much money they would have, you know, 10, 20, 30 years later.
01:24:32
Yeah. Just real estate alone, it's a travesty. Nothing really can be repaired in that way.
01:24:39
But the reparations and the apology are both accepted as a victory by the advocates and activists who fought so hard for them.
01:24:47
And it really is something for it to get to that level. In the 80s, in Reagan's American 80s, it is a huge victory for those activists.
01:24:57
Yeah. And today, Manzanar is a historic site that's operated by the National Park Service.
01:25:02
and visitors can read a marker there that says in part, quote, Manzanar, the first of 10 concentration camps
01:25:09
was bounded by barbed wire and guard towers, confining 10,000 persons, the majority being American citizens.
01:25:17
May the injustices and humiliation suffered here as a result of hysteria, racism,
01:25:23
and economic exploitation never emerge again. Wow. End quote. That's powerful. Yeah, right?
01:25:30
Today in Bainbridge Island, there are local businesses and farms that are named after Japanese Americans who did return
01:25:36
after their incarcerations. And meanwhile, Woodward Middle School now stands as a testament to Walt
01:25:43
and Millie's work. A large outdoor memorial honors the 276 residents who were interned and offers a
01:25:50
stark warning to visitors with the Japanese quote, which translates to, let it not happen again.
01:26:00
And that is the story of Paula Otake, Walt and Millie Woodward, and the internment of Japanese Americans
01:26:07
during World War II. Wow, Karen. We have to stop doing this. This country is so fucked up.
01:26:15
It really is. It's just like, it's so hard to understand how for a huge percentage of the population,
01:26:22
basic human rights for every single person is a front to them. They're fighting against it.
01:26:30
I just, I can't wrap my fucking head around it. It's almost like whether or not it's an affront
01:26:36
is none of anyone's business. If that's an affront to you, that's your problem for your living room
01:26:41
and your miserable Thanksgiving dinner. The idea that political action is being taken
01:26:47
on behalf of these motherfuckers. It's like Roy Wood said in his speech, this thing, you taking CRT,
01:26:56
like critical race theory out of schools, you're just trying to erase the black experience.
01:27:00
That's all it is. He was saying it so plainly and flatly, but that is the truth.
01:27:05
When you take away that history and you don't allow people to talk about the fucked up shit that's happened
01:27:12
all the way down to the murder of Native and Indigenous people in this country, then it's like everybody gets this pass
01:27:22
and everybody, it's just like, well, that's not my problem or that's their problem
01:27:27
or, well, I didn't know about it, so it's not a thing. Right, you're whitewashing it completely.
01:27:32
That kind of fragility just breeds more and more fragility. Instead of that kind of thing of like,
01:27:38
man, I would have never guessed Ronald Reagan would be the one that'd be like, hey, guess what?
01:27:43
That was super fucked up. We can't not acknowledge this anymore. I think what's really frustrating about it too
01:27:49
is that so many of those people that we're talking about use religion and their love of God
01:27:55
as an excuse to be so horrible It just this complete what the word It hypocrisy Yes It just complete hypocrisy And I think these people should you should look at yourself and your life and ask
01:28:11
yourself how on earth you could be so cruel and so awful. I just, yeah, I don't know.
01:28:18
Here's the thing. They don't listen to this podcast. Okay, ask your sister and your mom and your grandpa and tell them.
01:28:30
Here's the thing. Do not let the internet tell you not to vote. Do not let the internet tell you to be cynical and throw your hands up.
01:28:40
The political action has to be taken by the majority in this country where the majority,
01:28:45
the majority of people in this country give a shit about their neighbor. They care.
01:28:51
They are not wrapped up in this bullshit. Like that idea that like, we're going to go down and demonstrate
01:28:57
because people are having a drag brunch is one of the craziest fucking things you can do with your day.
01:29:02
And it's because you can't deal with yourself. So like the majority of Americans,
01:29:07
they don't, they're fine with drag queens. They're fine with all that. It's not real.
01:29:12
You're being, if that is what you think the problem is, you're being manipulated.
01:29:18
Meanwhile, these billionaires are stealing everything and they're gonna go off on their super yacht
01:29:24
and leave everybody behind to kill each other. Totally. Too dark for the true crime podcast?
01:29:30
No. Too dark? I love it. The voting thing is important and next election, we're gonna hit it hard.
01:29:37
So everyone go register to vote and get ready to hear it from us. And in the meantime, keep your eyes peeled
01:29:43
because they're trying to change the voting laws right now. The way they fucking repealed Roe v. Wade
01:29:48
in the middle of the night, state by state, they're doing the same thing to voting laws.
01:29:53
And it's really scary and it's really crazy. And I know we're all already paying attention,
01:29:59
but eyes open, everybody, eyes open. And let's move to the Netherlands. Will they have us?
01:30:06
No, why would they? They're like, get the fuck out of here. Oh my God. Oh, sorry, that was heavy.
01:30:14
Yeah, but necessary. And thank you for listening to that and to this and to, you know, anything
01:30:20
around it, et cetera. Billionaires shouldn't exist and capitalism is evil and you guys are great.
01:30:28
And we love you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:30:35
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Crichton.
01:30:49
This episode was engineered and mixed by Stephen Ray Morris. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Sarah Blair Jenkins.
01:30:56
Email your hometowns and fucking hoorays to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.
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