00:00:00
This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
00:00:33
Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye. When a charming neurosurgeon rode into Frontier Town
00:00:39
selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
00:00:45
and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
00:00:51
This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
00:00:58
or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. Pandora Jewelry brings the sparkle to summer, now with even better prices.
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Terms and conditions apply. See pandora.net for more details. Goodbye. Warning. The following episode deals with mature and disturbing themes, including murder, doomsday
00:01:28
cults, hitmen for hire, and explicit language. But listener discretion is not advised, because we dubbed it all out.
00:01:35
Now you can listen to this podcast in front of children, in the car with your mother-in-law,
00:01:39
or at a public pool. Please note, no cults were joined in the making of this episode.
00:01:43
Enjoy, mother French horn. Center yourself? Yes, Syria. Are you centered? I feel like I might be.
00:02:05
Are you in the center? I'm kind of, I'm a little sideways. A little wonky? I might be a little wanky.
00:02:13
That's because this is my favorite murder. The podcast with the consistently Worst opening in the history
00:02:24
Of podcasts You know We invite you in slowly With awkwardness Right by making you want to turn it off
00:02:32
But you stick around Because you're like maybe this could get worse That's Karen Kilgariff
00:02:41
That sigh is Karen Kilgariff And that And that fake sigh is Georgia Hartstark Hi
00:02:48
Hi, we're here to talk to you about true crime And all the things that we have now associated with true crime
00:02:54
Which is everything Which pretty much anything Anything, everything, all of it The thing I'm loving now is just consistent pictures
00:03:02
Of old razor blade holes in people's bathroom cabinets Like 2018 is all about Starbucks
00:03:11
Hidden in walls Yes And especially if you have an old timey medicine cabinet go check yours i bet there's so many people listening like what are you flopping talking
00:03:20
about yeah go downstairs i don't know if you're upstairs i don't know why your bathroom's downstairs
00:03:24
wait first of all why are you upstairs go downstairs someone's in their car right now
00:03:30
they don't know so go upstairs go upstairs to the double-decker bus you know the double-decker
00:03:35
bus driver how you do it go upstairs go upstairs to your mansion go into the bathroom why don't
00:03:41
you have a bathroom upstairs yeah that's so weird everyone does and why don't you do you and then
00:03:46
open your cabinet and is there a thing that says razors can go in here or whatever the funnel cake
00:03:51
an old timey font yes is there a little old-fashioned hole that seems haunted and could
00:03:57
have a bloody remnants of somebody in it so much dna so much vintage dna oh that would be fun and
00:04:05
just maybe you stare at it for a couple hours then you start to pull at it then you write a
00:04:11
book of short stories about every person who's put a razor into that stuffing oh first it's an
00:04:17
old guy then it's a young guy and it's a lady shaving her legs yes can we get a woman this is
00:04:22
why is the patriarchy taking over your short book of short stories never forget women shave way more
00:04:27
than men so much more with just all of our bodies face and legs all of it listen when you get to be
00:04:34
30 something you're gonna shave your face too don't you're going one of my favorite tweets is
00:04:38
our friend Morgan Murphy, hilarious comedian Morgan Murphy. She has my favorite tweet of all time, which is, your girlfriend
00:04:44
shaves her toes. Splat? Just a little drop of hardcore information. That's good. Sorry, it's
00:04:54
the truth. That's like a, like an Italian. Yep, just get it done real quick. You don't need 240 characters to get
00:04:59
the good stuff going. Amen. You know, I had to take the close-up mirror down from my wall in the
00:05:05
bathroom, the like, look at this mirror yeah real close and all the hairs and stuff i had to take it down i only i saved that
00:05:13
special occasion hotel rooms only good call but then you're like what is wrong with me i know and
00:05:19
you look at your face you're like why isn't anyone told me but when i was growing up we got those for
00:05:23
christmas one year my sister and i when i was like 14 with the lights your mom was like girls
00:05:27
she it was someone else that gave them to us holy gravy and we i used to sit at my desk in my room
00:05:33
with the lights out and that thing on it like switching it you know how it'd be like day evening
00:05:37
night whatever evening and night are the same but not on this mirror it was like yeah one was green
00:05:44
one was bright one was like really pinky what if you're after like what if you're at like a like a
00:05:49
late afternoon tonight party like that evening is gonna come and you gonna need to look your best you gonna have to yeah you have to adjust your eyebrow plucking uh to the light or more men will never love you and you never find a husband never find a man you will not land a man
00:06:06
at this garden party unless you pluck your chin correctly your jessica mcclintock dress can only
00:06:11
get you so far and that pretty updo that permed updo you better get your list of topics to talk
00:06:17
about in small talk conversations and you better shave your upper lip or thread it or do something
00:06:24
something. Don't forget about those nose hairs because that's the reality. Oh, girl.
00:06:28
Here's the worst one. Oh, no. Just every once in a while, I'll just catch a random
00:06:33
black neck hair. Yeah, yeah. I got the chin. I got the chin covered. You got the neck. You take
00:06:39
the neck. I'll take the chin. Neck might be like the next stage up. I'm like a whole generation
00:06:45
older than you. Question. Is it going up or down? I feel like it might be going down. Oh, no. No,
00:06:51
it's horrible you're in for a treat i'm in for the night that's why i do not leave my house i
00:06:57
can't trust my neck i don't know what's coming out of there ever anyway what we're talking about
00:07:04
oh yeah you got the mirror just i would stare into it and pluck my eyebrows and look at my
00:07:09
pores for so long that my dad would just keep walking by my bedroom door going he would make a noise like it was a bug light and i was like a praying mantis caught on a bug light
00:07:19
He's like, look at the bug light. You're not helping, Dad. Stop it. You're not helping.
00:07:26
They never helped. No, why would they? They want you to suffer so you don't get an ego.
00:07:31
Well, it's flapping. And like reach great heights or whatever. You know why? Because then you're going to fall further.
00:07:39
You're welcome, 14-year-old Karen. See? It doesn't hurt as bad when you don't climb as high.
00:07:46
When you stumble upwards, it's better than when you climb. upwards. That's right. Right. Or, or soar upwards. Right. That takes so much effort. That's for the
00:07:56
rich. That's for like people who don't have friends or like time for friends. Yeah. Time for pets.
00:08:01
Yeah. That's for people who are like, Oh, I'm a concert clarinetist. Well, congratulations.
00:08:06
Go do that then by yourself. I can't have a dog or a cat. I just, I'm never home. I'm working all
00:08:11
hours. And it's like, well, then you're living your life wrong. Yeah. You need a pet. Bring it
00:08:15
with you bring it to the symphony with you yeah let's teach it to barking play a horn instrument
00:08:21
wait speaking of which can i tell you sidebar that i took my dogs to the dog beach yeah which
00:08:26
is like i'm so jealous i can't take my cats to the dog beach you shouldn't you shouldn't they
00:08:31
would not have a good time but although it is one big cat box really i bet they'd be like whoa nope
00:08:37
i don't think that would happen everywhere we go within potluck but because it had rained so crazy
00:08:43
down here there was so much garbage and seaweed on the beach frank was like in heaven it was like
00:08:50
a mini beach garbage dump what was in there um well there was one whole huge fish no way just a
00:08:58
big dead fish that's so cool then there was lots of what looked it was pieces of plastic that looked
00:09:04
like they were from legs pantyhose containers like the eggs we're like why are there so many
00:09:09
plastic eggs around then there was like a basically an ikea futon frame um there's a little
00:09:16
kid in the surf that was pushing out a huge like it what looked like the gnarled base of an oak tree
00:09:23
and he was just it was like mom where's his mom or dad they were like oh good a project you go do
00:09:29
that in the in right in the riptide one word pathogens just everywhere one small cut on your
00:09:36
foot one tiny cut do you watch house go watch house they'll never trace that disease i know
00:09:43
all those beautiful young doctors on the beach oh my god and there was like oil it was really
00:09:48
dirty and i took my feet i took my shoes off and then i was like no karen i didn't think about it
00:09:53
until like 45 minutes in and i was like oh i'm there's no way i'm not gonna have some crazy
00:09:58
mystery rash this this podcast is gonna change to my favorite staph infection like tonight get
00:10:04
You're friendly. Beat off my couch. Everything's covered. I keep everything in surgical booties until I'm clean with two weeks cleared.
00:10:12
Please do. This is what happens when you leave the house. But what would your favorite staph infection be?
00:10:17
Oh, God. There's a lot. There's so many good ones. I really do love foreign bodies.
00:10:24
Foreign bodies? I like a good jump on a rusty nail. Ooh. I did that once in sixth grade.
00:10:29
I don't like that. It was intense. But I think I did it because I was at a slumber party that I didn't want to be at.
00:10:35
It was very intensely Christian. I was like, I've got to get out of here. And the next thing I knew, I was like jumping in a field and I landed on a rusty nail.
00:10:42
I was like, well, it looks like I got to go with my mom. Unless we can break into your parents' liquor cabinet and just pour some alcohol on this or wherever.
00:10:50
I think I need to be driven away from here. Whatever the medical procedure is, it's not going to take place.
00:10:56
It's not praying over my foot. No, it's not going to be with your weird Christian records.
00:11:01
got to go love the lord see you at school but i can't handle this um i'm watching a show on netflix
00:11:09
yeah you might be watching that everyone loves called the end of the filthy world no do you
00:11:14
heard it no oh it's so good what is it okay it's like okay it's like if you took um harold and maude
00:11:23
yes anti wes anderson anti like angry at wes anderson like anti like cute and like kitschy
00:11:32
in that way but like no shot is centered nothing is okay maybe just wes anderson but like dark
00:11:39
wes anderson okay got it okay and then like uh it's just like it's dark but like cute and cool
00:11:44
it's like these it's really good and there's it's murdery and there's these two young kids in it and
00:11:48
they're like he looks like harold from harold and ma and she's super adorable and they maybe they
00:11:52
murder someone we don know like it a really good show i love it should i read you the thing instead of telling you sure about it in my own special way I feel like what you just did was very clear Listen if I say it good it probably good I mean I feel like you batting I say eight for 10
00:12:08
Sure. Where'd I get where'd I go wrong? I couldn't give you 10 out of 10. I just couldn't.
00:12:15
Well, that's fair enough. Because I'm again, I want you to climb. I want things to be hard.
00:12:20
I want you to earn it. If you compliment someone without a little bit of a negativity in it, they're just going to not try anymore.
00:12:27
That's right. They're going to get a big head. Uh-huh. And, you know, that's the worst thing that can happen.
00:12:32
Right. Then they're going to show up at a filibuster garden party with hairs coming out of everywhere.
00:12:37
Oh, look at me. I'm so pretty. I have a beard. Yeah. No, this is wrong. What's happening?
00:12:41
You're never going to find a husband. You will not. You and your Jessica McClintock dress.
00:12:47
You won't be loved. We'll grow old together. Oh, sure. you can wear that dress all you want but the floral is not gonna land you a man it's not the
00:12:55
florals no it's the clear chin it's a smooth chin a feminine chin so shut up shut it what are we
00:13:05
doing i don't know what do you have to talk about okay anything yeah i do uh two weeks ago the last
00:13:12
in person upstairs what do we call this podcast when it's us not live i talked about the beast of
00:13:18
Jersey a whole I somebody said I was making conversation with somebody and they were like
00:13:24
what was your last show about they had never listened to the podcast they were just trying
00:13:27
to be polite and I went into a synopsis of what the beast of Jersey was all about and as I was
00:13:33
saying it I was like stop talking now you were like oh they were being polite they were they
00:13:36
don't want to know about the leather mask this person wore plastic weird rapey that they raped
00:13:41
out of anyone. They raped everyone they could get by themselves. Which is why I think people listen to this
00:13:49
podcast and why you and I are doing it is that we realize we can't talk to anyone about it.
00:13:53
That's exactly right. We all have to meet here if we want to have the... These are not dinner conversations
00:13:59
to meet your friend's new girlfriend. This is like a podcast of I don't get the face
00:14:05
of someone who isn't interested when I tell them about this. Isn't it cool? But usually
00:14:11
They kill inside their own race And they didn't kill inside their own race anymore
00:14:15
And he did this That's amazing Nobody wants to know about that That's in real life
00:14:19
People are like Anyhow Did you hear about the bomb? Right So anyway But as some of you know
00:14:30
I did talk about the kind of cows Because the islands we were talking about Were Jersey and Guernsey
00:14:36
And so then I began to hold forth Like a cow expert you are because um i am i am a c plus cow expert that's how much i got it right and i'm very angry
00:14:49
and ashamed because i grew up amidst cows i had to smell their starbucks every day i it was all hay
00:14:57
and cows and alfalfa and non-stop dairy so the fact that i got this wrong is both shaming and
00:15:03
then also i'm not sure why i keep i mean proximity doesn't equal farm knowledge knowledge very true
00:15:10
here we go are you ready always um this is from gail okay gail you're at she gets right into it
00:15:16
you're absolutely right about the jersey and guernsey cattle breeds coming from the islands
00:15:19
in the english channel but a little not right about oh that's so nice a little not right
00:15:25
you're just a little not right which is so accurate um about what those cows look like
00:15:32
jerseys are the smaller brown ones and their babies look like little deer little babies they
00:15:36
are the cutest. Even the groans are cute. Guernseys are brown and white cows and they
00:15:42
aren't as common. The black and white cows are Holsteins. That's what I was talking about. Both
00:15:46
jerseys and Guernseys are known for their rich and flavorful milk that is high in protein and butterfat.
00:15:50
Although the milk that you buy from the store has been standardized in its nutrient
00:15:54
composition by removing fat. French. Adding it back in. The government. So the fat content. French.
00:16:04
The government. So the fat content is most important for making other dairy products besides milk jerseys are particularly
00:16:11
popular because even though they are small and don't make as much milk as larger cows they are
00:16:17
much more efficient and making milk think of them as the Priuses of dairy cattle and I will from now
00:16:22
on uh I'm a professor of dairy and animal science hell yes so I was pretty tickled to hear you guys
00:16:30
talk about cows while I was simultaneously listening to your podcast and scrambling to
00:16:34
edit PowerPoints about cows before the semester starts. It's like her episode. That's it was like made for her.
00:16:41
She's like, listen, I hate serial rapists. Yeah. But here's my chance to shine. But still, I found something I could love here.
00:16:47
And that's what we try to do. This is what it's all about. And then she said, cheers to all and especially the pets, Gail.
00:16:53
And then in parentheses, it says, which in my case is a woman scientist name. I don't know what that means.
00:17:00
Oh, that's great. So thank you, Gail. Also, thank you, Sarah, Emma, Allie, and everyone who tweeted us this correction.
00:17:09
We got emails from Sarah, Emma, and Allie also that were all equally as informative about cows.
00:17:15
That's nice. So just so everybody knows, jerseys are the prettiest cows. Guernseys are like Jersey's less pretty sister.
00:17:24
Oh, now we're going to get the hate mail from cows. I'm going for it. Holsteins are black and white cows, like from an old country folk painting.
00:17:33
And then the ones I grew up with were heifers, which are the orange and white ones.
00:17:38
I believe they are. Or maybe that's. I have never known so much about cows in my life.
00:17:42
And and isn't it fun? Like you can now take this straight to a dinner party. Yeah.
00:17:46
Instead of talking about murder. You go straight into listing cows and their colors.
00:17:51
You know how everyone loves to talk about. You just wait for a nice pause in the conversation Did you know The ones that look like there are jerseys There are heifers And then you got French
00:18:05
The government. French. The government. May I have that salt and pepper, please?
00:18:11
Can I say correct to correct nobody, really? But just to read this. Hi, ladies. And then in parentheses says, Stephen, animals.
00:18:21
Oh, and this is called some Montessori insight about Georgia's dirty feet. Oh, here we go.
00:18:27
Blah, blah, blah. Really nice stuff. And then on episode 102, you mentioned attending Montessori schools and Georgia recalls having a feet washing bucket.
00:18:35
As a Montessori teacher, I was cackling in my car. This dirty feet scenario is totally not a fever dream.
00:18:41
The goal of Montessori schools is to teach independence, life skills and appreciation of nature.
00:18:47
You are lucky enough to go to get to go outside and explore and learn, allowing those feet to get nasty.
00:18:51
Bless your teacher for allowing the children to wash their feet Water, so fun We only have a hand washing station
00:18:57
I'm not nice enough to let my little ones take their shoes off outside Anyways, thanks for all you do
00:19:02
Stay sexy, wash those feet, don't get murdered Jamie Well, Jamie, though I bet that's smart
00:19:09
Because you don't want a child staph infection Don't step on a blaming Rusty nail
00:19:15
They'll jump on it just to get out of school Oh, definitely Lazy Anyhow Oh, I guess this last one.
00:19:22
This is just a fun email. Yeah. That Stephen pulled for us. Look and listen, David Fincher.
00:19:28
Yeah. Is the subject line. From Gina. Hi, ladies and honorary lady, Stephen Raymore.
00:19:35
Stephen's triumphantly raising his fists. So good. Was watching Seven for the first time.
00:19:42
First time. Such a good movie. You've had 29 years. I was watching Seven for the first time and noticed this.
00:19:49
And then she pulled a screen cap and it's Morgan Freeman standing in front of Brad Pitt.
00:19:54
And the line he's saying to him is, I want you to look and I want you to listen.
00:19:58
OK. And then she back in the email says, just saying, has anyone ever seen Karen and Georgia in the same room as Morgan Freeman?
00:20:07
Karen and Morgan certainly share that deep, distinguished voice. Oh, my God. Lots of love, plus some sloth, greed, gluttony, etc.
00:20:15
Gina, that's everyone. So God dog funny. If you haven't seen seven murderinos, young murderinos, go watch seven.
00:20:23
Oh, my God. If you haven't seen seven. Creepy. This conversation ends here. Yeah.
00:20:28
Pause it. Pause it. Go check your go downstairs and check your medicine cabinet.
00:20:34
That's right. Go back upstairs. Go back upstairs to your why is your TV upstairs and your bathrooms downstairs?
00:20:39
It seems inconvenient. Yeah, because a basement bathroom and an attic TV room is just hard for the family.
00:20:45
Is your house only a basement and an attic? What does that mean? Or maybe you're a Dr. Seuss character.
00:20:51
Do you have a hat where that machines that clean the house come out of it? Yeah.
00:20:55
You might want to check your hat. Check your flipping. Check your hat. And then check the hot dog.
00:21:00
Government, man. Yeah. Tell them about cows. Inform them. Who goes first this week?
00:21:06
I think it's you, right? Did I go? But then we had a live episode. Oh, yeah. But didn't we say we were doing?
00:21:13
We're not counting. I think I'm first this week. I was counting on going first this week.
00:21:16
good because i had to do it last week yeah i find it technically technically yeah technically you
00:21:23
think a bird you think i think going first is better because then i can cha-ching chill a shirt
00:21:28
oh drink my sparkling wine oh you know what i mean yeah i do so but i can't go first every week
00:21:34
because i would suck yeah that would suck it does suck it's like you kind of have to get everything
00:21:37
up off the ground right all right you set a tone yeah and i'm not trying to intimidate you but you
00:21:42
really control the mood right now just kidding thumbs down oh no the thing too is what if um
00:21:49
what if this is your murder what if my murder is your murder and i go get her first i then you
00:21:53
don't have to go i can't wait then i just sit back and go like yes girl tell it yeah yeah you
00:21:59
forgot this part let me tell you this thing okay bad bang this podcast is brought to you by
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00:25:12
All right. So I found this story and decided to do it and then found out that it is also an I survived.
00:25:21
She's in an I survived episode. Yes. So this is special for you. Thank you. So I watched the I Survived episode.
00:25:28
It was great. But also I got a lot, like most of my information from an article in the Willamette Week by Beth Slavik from 2016.
00:25:38
So thank you, Beth. Good job. Yay. We're proud of you. Okay. So this is the story of Susan Kuhnhausen.
00:25:46
Okay. Any bells yet? No. I feel like I'm like reading to the master. uh can i just do a quick brag yeah my sister said uh last weekend i think it was she was like
00:25:59
there's an i survived um on that's amazing right now you need to watch it a woman who escaped a
00:26:06
serial killer and i wrote back does she have red hair and a green sweater i've seen it already
00:26:10
and my sister goes oh that was creepy because i know yeah i honestly have seen them all five times i've seen maybe two okay you're
00:26:21
the queen of this so i felt a little but i think that this is you know do you mind if i will listen
00:26:26
to you and guess the whole time yeah i'll ring in when i think i know that's what this podcast is
00:26:31
yeah girl this podcast doesn't be quiet while i tell you about the story could you please be quiet
00:26:35
interrupt the jiminy cricket out of me with incorrect guesses this is the one time i've
00:26:41
been interrupting you for two years straight yeah but this is the one time we were like could you
00:26:45
please be quiet this is an i survived this is actually really and wait literally two years
00:26:49
straight today that's right it's our two-year fun facts anniversary oh my god of existing of
00:26:57
existing of having real personalities yeah lives having an interest that we shared we thought
00:27:05
this could possibly be interesting. First day of the rest of our lives. Insanely. Dude, two years.
00:27:14
Happy birthday to you. High five, Georgia hard start. Thank you. You too, Karen Kalkaroff. This is Paul Giamatti.
00:27:28
Podcast would be going to Montessori. No, it wouldn't. That's too young, right? It's too young. But unless we're both
00:27:34
working daycare working moms yeah listen because steve steven will you be this podcast nanny steven's
00:27:40
a podcast nanny yeah i would think so steven thank you yeah i'll take care of you okay you would be
00:27:46
a manny right oh right right right right um steven you came in what a year and a half
00:27:50
i mean like six months in my my i guess of course he knows what's there. There's a heart in his calendar.
00:28:00
Oh, yeah. It's like a little like in my locker. It's like my my two anniversary is in May.
00:28:07
OK. Yeah. Well, we're going to say right now that we'll get you something for your two anniversary.
00:28:13
And then we won't. Then we'll make up for it and it'll be even better. Yes. That's that's exactly all I could
00:28:20
hope for. That's all you've ever wanted. We do right now. Exactly. You know how we do.
00:28:23
I love it. Yeah. OK. All right. Susan Kuhnhausen. Okay, here we go. On the evening of Wednesday, September 6th, 2006, 51-year-old emergency room nurse of nearly 30 years, Susan Kuhnhausen, ended her shift at Providence Portland Medical Center and headed to her appointment at Perfect Look Hair Salon in East Burnside Street.
00:28:47
On East Burnside Street. Portland, I guess you know what that is. You already know, don't you?
00:28:52
No, no, no, I don't. I know that area, though, the Burnside District. Oh, okay. So, perfect look.
00:28:57
It's our new hair salon. It's so good. It's so good. Susan had moved to Oregon in the early 80s.
00:29:02
She settled in Portland, and she was well-liked by everyone who knew her, of course.
00:29:05
Everyone says she's outgoing, vivacious. She's this amazing nurse. She's loved by everyone.
00:29:11
In 1988, when she was in her early 30s, Susan, along with a friend in her mom's help, placed
00:29:16
a singles ad in the Willamette Week, which is what this... I just realized this is what this article is from.
00:29:21
Oh, yeah. They didn't put it together. That's awesome. That's amazing. That's a very popular circular up there in Portland.
00:29:29
I think it still exists. Yeah. Looking for. And so she placed a singles ad, which is how you used to find love.
00:29:36
It's like before. Could you imagine? No. It's just like, oh, it's all like letters and numbers.
00:29:43
And like, I'm a Taurus, S, F, L. S, M, L. Looking for. D. I think my mom put one of those in like Irvine Weekly or whatever in the 80s.
00:29:53
Did she get any? Did she catch any good fish I sure she didn Jesus The guys she dated were horrendous Were they sickening No they were just like like single dads in the 80s were creeps You know what I mean A lot of transition lenses a lot of mustaches Yeah Yeah All right This isn about me Okay Or Janet It always about Janet It always about Janet Okay So she wrote looking for a quote someone different And then about herself she wrote overweight but not over life which I love so much
00:30:25
there's your there's like a that's a necklace instead of like live laugh love overweight but not over life not over life and then you kick a stranger in the dick
00:30:34
he's reading that yeah it's about your necklace can you know the um website reductress that i'm just upset like they're sprankers
00:30:45
headlines make me laugh so hard and their articles it's like it's like the onion for women yes they're
00:30:50
they have like a merch now and one of their they have a shirt that has an arrow and it's up to the
00:30:56
arrow goes to your face and it says my vagina is up here they had one after the golden globes that
00:31:03
said zero quotes from men about the me too movement it's so good okay someone different
00:31:12
overweight but not over life seeks sm who wants more out of a relationship than just quote slender
00:31:17
girl yes wow and this is in the late 80s when none of these attitudes were allowed no you go to red
00:31:24
flag jazzercise and you you diet and reduce or you're nothing and no one it's bulimia or bust
00:31:30
everybody it was a hard time but then meanwhile we were being tricked into ingesting fake diet
00:31:36
food that was actually filled with sugar so like we all thought new york seltzer was diet yeah and
00:31:42
we're like this is so delicious and you drink like seven of them and it's just like drinking
00:31:45
Right. And then you scream at your kids. Yeah. OK. OK. 39 year old Mike Coon Hansen responded.
00:31:52
And about him, Susan said, quote, he had a nice voice. I was impressed he wanted to talk about deeper things, which I wrote.
00:31:59
Red flag. You know. No, he doesn't. He goes straight to poetry. Get out of there.
00:32:04
Deeper things. Deeper than what? Than what? OK. Their first day was in February 1988.
00:32:09
Mike was a Mike was adopted as a newborn in 1948. Grew up in Portland. He told Susan he saw combat in Vietnam, but military records list him as a switchboard operator.
00:32:18
Oh, within the year they drove to Reno to get married. So she marries this dude, Mike Kuhnhausen.
00:32:26
OK, it quickly soured. She said, quote, it wasn't long after. Wait a second. Wait a second.
00:32:34
Don't give it away for the listeners at home. I won't. I think I know. Just say, give me a, give me like a keyword.
00:32:43
She finds him in the house? No. Okay. But close. I think you do know. You're just not there yet.
00:32:49
Okay. We got to get you a little further. And then you're like, yes. Okay. It wasn't very long after we got married that there was no more hiking, no more going out.
00:33:00
Yeah. Because people say they're into shark week, that they're not into shark week.
00:33:04
And then in a year, they're sick of you, which is why you need to start a relationship saying,
00:33:07
I like to sit at home and binge watch. Anime. with my cats and get takeout. Yeah, what's past like topical weekend interest?
00:33:14
Yeah, that's the reality of the relationship. Nobody likes to hike. No, it's total dating bull splat.
00:33:20
Stupid. It's really dumb. It's for single, desperate, thirsty people. Literally, literally.
00:33:28
OK, married. Within a few years of the wedding, Mike got a new job as a janitorial supervisor
00:33:35
for Oregon Entertainment, the parent company of fantasy adult video so basically he started working for an adult video
00:33:42
company as the janitor which has to be like a bummer job like about you don't come home from
00:33:48
that kicking your heels and hugging your wife even if it's all paper products and like guys and ties
00:33:53
there is still a level of of light scum i would say on everything that he that was his job just
00:34:00
to mop off totally literally and figuratively yeah okay so he starts slowly revealing to her
00:34:06
in the early years that he'd never really been happy. His life philosophy, she says, was life's a
00:34:11
nasty sandwich. And every day you take another bite until you die. Flipping. Thanks, Garfield.
00:34:18
Jesus Christ. This is why everyone needs to go to therapy and get pharmaceuticals. Yes. Well,
00:34:25
not everyone, but this guy clearly. I mean, it's just so sorry. That's all of life to you. Like
00:34:31
you're not going to you have that attitude and you're not going to do anything to change it.
00:34:35
Like take a chill pill. And by chill pill, I mean a flapping Zoloft. Zoloft. Lithium.
00:34:41
Anything. Something. Help yourself. Okay. Mike chain smoked. He also pounded Diet Cokes.
00:34:47
Which is like, is that why are you being a dick about it? He was very controlling.
00:34:53
He would hound Susan about her plans when she went out. He kept track of her spending and complained about all her purchases, which is like, shut up.
00:35:00
I need to go to Perfect Look every two weeks. or you're going to tell me I look like chips and dip.
00:35:07
Yes, exactly. Also, she is an emergency room nurse. Yeah. She's pulling down. That is a union wage.
00:35:12
She's doing very well. Yeah. Your fantasy adult forking video store is not the same wage.
00:35:17
Probably not. So, yeah, the spending discussion. Anyway, let's talk about marriage.
00:35:25
OK, 17 years into their marriage, Susan is like fake. They're Snickers. She said, I cared about him, but I didn't want to live with him anymore.
00:35:32
I wanted to be happy again. So in September 2005, she kicks in the hunk out of the house and he moves into his father's home.
00:35:39
But Susan never changes the locks or the alarm code, which was their anniversary.
00:35:46
Well, why would she? It's her husband that she thinks she knows and has a relationship with.
00:35:51
Right. OK. So she wasn't surprised after her hair appointment. She gets home She still in her scrubs It 6 p She lives in Montevilla neighborhood comes home finds a note by the microwave from Mike because they still talking and stuff saying
00:36:05
Sue, I haven't been sleeping, had to get away, went to the beach. He said he'd see here on Friday
00:36:10
or Saturday. Love me. He said he says. So Susan disarms the alarm, goes to the house to the front,
00:36:16
grabs her mail and she comes back inside and looks through the house to her bedroom and sees that
00:36:19
it's really good night dark in her bedroom abnormally. And she's like, oh, I thought I
00:36:23
open the drapes that morning there's like something is off she knew it immediately in the
00:36:27
in the ant insect part of her brain well there's what is scarier than that when you're standing in
00:36:34
your house and there's something off there's something that you didn't do that that is like
00:36:39
i always have a lamp there's a one lamp i'd never turn off and if that if that were off if i came
00:36:45
home and that were off i would be like well i would think i got my electricity turned off which
00:36:49
Happens constantly. But my thing is like, if my cats aren't, if one of the cats aren't greeting me, there's
00:36:56
something wrong in the house. Yes. You know, like they're scared. There's, there's a reason.
00:37:00
If my dogs aren't there barking at the window, like I'm the mailman. I think they're both dead.
00:37:06
Like I picture, oh, they ate, they ate chemicals. They ate whatever. Like I go through a whole thing of trying to go into acceptance about losing both dogs
00:37:13
at the same time. Jesus. And then Georgia like walk up like, what do you want? I was sleeping.
00:37:20
The other day, Vince and I came home and the whole house smelled like cigarettes.
00:37:24
Like someone had just smoked a cigarette or was smoking a cigarette in the house.
00:37:28
It was really flapping. Creepy. And we like went room to room and looked everywhere.
00:37:33
What was? Did you have a window open? No, I don't know what it was. It was probably someone in the hallway or something.
00:37:37
Wait, I think we've talked about this already. But did I ever tell you about my friends who live in New York and they are the producers of Eugene Merman's Comedy Festival?
00:37:47
and they um put a camera in their house because they in their apartment they kept noticing little
00:37:55
things move and and um so finally they put this a camera in their house that would switch on if
00:38:04
there was movement yeah and um so the guy was at work it switches on their landlord just is going
00:38:11
into their house walking around and she's it's one of the creepiest videos they showed it to me
00:38:16
And she's just really slowly walking around and looking at everything. Oh my God.
00:38:21
And she like at one point walks upstairs, which is just their bedroom and is up there for like three minutes and then comes back down.
00:38:27
I never told you about that. No, I want to cry. And then she just leaves. But it was like one of the creepiest, weirdest things I've ever seen.
00:38:33
How come she was moving shampoo? It's like she would, she would look over like for a while she'd look at pictures or she'd like lean over.
00:38:41
She was just snooping around. I would do that. So I'm sure one time she like pick up a magazine and put it down thinking
00:38:47
they'll never notice. Oh my god. Isn't that amazing? You know that's happened in your life.
00:38:53
Oh my god. Right? Like someone's gone through your cheese and crackers. When I was a kid when I was
00:38:58
like a certain there was a certain like young part period in my life I was like 12 where all I forking
00:39:04
did was snoop through my fake family. Sinkhole. Yes. Just snoop. 100%. It was so much fun. I would
00:39:12
always go through my mom's nightstand drawer because there was always weird, super random
00:39:17
dryer lint in there, but there was never anything good. But it would be like, if I dig back here
00:39:22
far enough, there'll be something weird where I'm like, is this sexual? I'm not sure. And it never
00:39:28
was. It was like never what I wanted it. One time I thought I found a porn under my parents' bed
00:39:32
and I pulled it out and it was just an exercise like, um, videotape. Yeah. I was going to say a
00:39:40
VCR. My friend and I went through, we, it was during this time. And I had a friend who was like,
00:39:45
yeah, let's go through my mom. And we both had single moms. And we found like, it must have been given to her as a gag gift. Because now that I'm older, I'm like,
00:39:53
no one would use those on themselves. It's disgusting. But at the time we were like,
00:39:59
I think we like stopped looking through people's stuff after we found this box of like weird
00:40:03
dildo attachments. Yes. We were both like, oh no. Yeah. And never talked about it again.
00:40:09
that's the thing that you learn depending from somewhere between when you're 11 and 14 yeah which
00:40:16
is you can go ahead and snoop all you want but there's a you have to land on the other side of
00:40:21
snooping yeah which is not only that you you're a snooper and you could get caught and known as that
00:40:26
yeah but then you know something yeah there might be big feelings you don't want to know you're not
00:40:32
even imagining what you wouldn't want to know yeah and managing that you're just being like
00:40:37
I know what this is going to amount to. Yeah. Don't do it. Do not. I mean, do, but just know that.
00:40:43
But then you have to die with some secrets. You could snoop up a secret that you're then you're just like, well, we're going to podcast
00:40:48
and talk about it years later. It's true. OK, this isn't about me. This is about Susan.
00:40:56
That's right. Disarming her alarm. It's dark in her room. She goes to her room. This is your last chance to guess what this is.
00:41:02
I know what this is because sorry, Mike is not in the house. No. okay but you're but i know what you know you think okay you know but you have no idea
00:41:13
from behind the bedroom door a man suddenly lurches towards her right it's a hired guy
00:41:20
sorry sorry sugar okay susan doesn't recognize his face he's got dockers a blue striped shirt on
00:41:29
and a tan baseball hat pulled down over his eyes he has yellow rubber gloves on his hands and is
00:41:35
carrying a red and black claw hammer. A claw hammer. A claw hammer. He swings the flaming hammer
00:41:43
and his first blow lands on her left temple. Okay, you hire a hitman and he's like,
00:41:49
here's how I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna bludgeon her to death. I choose to bludgeon a person
00:41:54
as opposed to just shoot them and get out of the house Yeah Horrifying Yeah so using her instincts and her three decades of experience in the er where karen all the er nurses are trained regularly in
00:42:08
self-defense learning how to slip out of headlocks and clutches wow susan knows instinctively to crowd
00:42:16
her attacker not to like cower and back off because the blows land shifty if the closer you
00:42:22
are the closer you are that's great i'm not this don't legally i am not telling you to do anything
00:42:29
when you get attacked etc yeah um and that would have less force the swings of the hammer if she's
00:42:34
not if she's super close to him yeah she flipping screams at him who are you what do you want she's
00:42:42
yelling at him but he doesn't answer susan's only five foot four so she's five inches shorter than
00:42:48
than the man and she has two bad knees from repeated injuries and her excessive weight as
00:42:54
she clearly stated in her in her singles bad she out but she outweighed him because he was super
00:43:01
skinny so she says she um she slams her body up against his attempts to push him over but he
00:43:07
doesn't fall instead he pushes susan against the bedroom wall then says the only phrase that he
00:43:15
ever he's gonna say that night secretly between you and me the last leaping thing he'll ever say
00:43:20
oh you're strong you're strong and she says that the phrase sends surges of adrenaline through her
00:43:30
because she said quote with hearing this phrase she says he's here to kill me she realized at
00:43:35
that moment i don't know why i don't know who he is but his intent was clear and those are his last
00:43:40
words ever oh susan pushes him again and says who sent you she wrestles the hammer from him and she
00:43:48
swings the claw three or four times into his skull from she got the collecting hammer yes
00:43:55
he grabs it back and so susan grabs his throat and says who sent you here squeezing his throat
00:44:02
his face turns red and purple and then he goes blue so susan freaks out at that moment and lets
00:44:11
go and tries to run he catches her though as she's running from the bedroom they're in this
00:44:17
narrow hallway together he spins her around and punches her splitting her lip punches her again
00:44:22
and she falls to the floor and when she looks up he's standing over her with the hammer and at that
00:44:27
moment she thinks i'm going to die today why'd she let go when his face was blue i mean people
00:44:32
don't want to kill people true but not great i know at least make him pass out i mean yeah but
00:44:38
like you think close enough right the fact that he was able to get up i guess so i always think
00:44:42
i'm smarter than people in death near death situations um so she knows she needs to get
00:44:49
the hammer from him so she pulls him to the floor with her so he's standing over her and she wham
00:44:54
pulls him to the ground with her. That's brilliant. I know. She starts to bite him in her mind
00:44:59
thinking, I know I'm going to die, but I'm going to shucking leave teeth marks that people know
00:45:04
that he like confined him. Yeah. So she wrestling on the floor together, she bites his arm, his
00:45:10
flank and his thigh and bites through his shucking zipper to his flopping hot dog to his dick.
00:45:17
They can't write that in the will I'm at. Probably. Probably not. At the same time,
00:45:21
She's going through his pockets looking for ID so she can like throw his wallet under the bed.
00:45:25
So like the cops will know who it is. Jesus. I know. Well, you know what? That ER, her working in an ER probably prepped her for so many crazy things.
00:45:34
There's no time to panic. Yeah. Yeah. Real clear thinker in horrible situations.
00:45:38
Exactly. She said, I was like a downed power line snapping on the pavement. How cool is that?
00:45:44
Wow. I know. The fight at this point had lasted. You know how long this fight had gone on?
00:45:49
How long can you ding ding? fight for do you think i would give it a good 19 minutes okay never mind it's 14 oh but however
00:45:59
that's a long time you're gonna say like six hours i can't even do five minutes of cardio
00:46:04
all right so we'll edit that out and then i'll say six minutes okay okay great they're both
00:46:10
wedged on their sides in the small hallway she throws a leg over his body climbs on top of him
00:46:16
hooks her left arm around his neck so she's got him a sweaty chokehold WWE style
00:46:22
says tell me who sent you here and I will call you a boy vey ambulance and all he did was growl
00:46:30
and then she says when I realized I was not going to ever regain the hammer it came to me that I
00:46:36
needed to become the weapon holy heck girl she says she leans forward tightens her forearm against his throat
00:46:46
and he stopped moving. She grabs the hammer and runs outside to the neighbors. They call 911.
00:46:51
Here's a quote from the 911 call. Do you need an ambulance? They say, do you need an ambulance?
00:46:56
And the neighbor said, no, she's a nurse. She says, call an ambulance for the guy. He may be dead.
00:47:01
She's like, I'm fine. But she is not, she is. She's on adrenaline. She doesn't know. She doesn't
00:47:08
feel like as much of a bad cookie about this as we think of her as a bad cookie. She's like,
00:47:13
freak the flip out about it. Of course. Of course. I mean, not just that this happened to her, but that she killed the dude.
00:47:19
Right. Okay. Well, no, that's I mean, that's a horrible burden. Yes. So the man was
00:47:25
dead. His name was Edward Haffey. He was a 59-year-old Vietnam veteran. An autopsy showed
00:47:31
he had a near lethal dose of cocaine in his system when he died. Relatives and friends
00:47:37
told police he'd been raised in an upper middle class home and was an avid tennis
00:47:41
player. So something quite bad happened and I bet it's cocaine. Yeah. He recently lived or Vietnam. He recently lived in a trailer on Northeast
00:47:50
Killingsworth Street and had a long rap sheet in Susan's basement. They find Ed's backpack and inside is a container of Hershey syrup. What?
00:48:00
in cash, diabetes pill, and a daybook and a pay stub. So court records show that 15 years earlier, on February 28th, 1991, this guy Edward Haffey
00:48:11
arranged the murder of his ex-girlfriend, 39-year-old Georgia Lee Dutton. Weird that my name is Georgia and my sister's nickname is Lee.
00:48:19
Not really. A little bit? A little bit. A touch of weird. Let's go a little. Her decomposed body was later found along the Umpqua River.
00:48:29
that's right is that right yeah near roseburg so i tried to look up details about her murder
00:48:34
because i wanted to say some more about her but i can't find anything at all so he he had pled
00:48:39
guilty to conspiracy to commit aggravated murder in 1994 and spent the next nine years in the
00:48:45
eastern oregon correctional institution and he had been released in november of 2003 for murder
00:48:50
oh god okay oh my god after he got out he moved to portland and in july 2004 was hired by none
00:48:57
other than our trash friend Mike Kuhnhansson. The worst last name of all time. I hate his name.
00:49:05
To clean floors at adult, at fantasy adult video. Oh. So they were workmates. They were workmates.
00:49:12
So, which is where the pay stub in his backpack was from. Oh, okay. Okay. And there's also a day book that had an entry that said, call Mike for September 4th, 2006,
00:49:21
along with Mike's new cell phone number. So like, not a good murderer. No one's covering anything.
00:49:27
Not a good hitman. No. And he got killed instead of. Well, I mean, the claw, the claw hammer is the indicator.
00:49:36
This is not a hitman. This is like a lunatic. Yeah, definitely. So on September 8th, Mike left a suicide note at his father's house saying all I ever wanted was to be loved.
00:49:46
And every time I had it, I whacked it up. No, dude, you're a piece of dry air lint.
00:49:52
Don't feel forking. Sorry for yourself. Yeah, this is not the time for if you've arranged the murder of your ex-wife that.
00:49:59
Yeah, it's not the time to talk about how hard things are for you. Right. And how bad it is that you whack things up.
00:50:04
So then he takes off 10 a.m. on September 13th. A deputy finds Mike in the parking garage of a Kaiser.
00:50:10
He's Mike says he's checking himself in. We don't Kaiser. Yeah. They won't have they'll have you there for 10 minutes.
00:50:20
Max. Well, for to a psychiatric hold. Oh, sorry. Whatever. I didn't realize Kaiser had any psychiatric services available.
00:50:28
Let's go try it. I will. Right now. I will. So police put him in involuntary psychiatric hold.
00:50:34
Then they put him under arrest for conspiracy to commit murder. Obviously, he had a motive.
00:50:38
He had lost his job weeks earlier. He had no place to live. Susan had named her brother as a beneficiary on her life insurance policy, which is so smart because she was like, I'm divorced.
00:50:48
Like, she must have had some. Yeah. You know, and Mike knew that. But Susan and Mike had paid off that house and it was worth about three hundred thousand dollars.
00:50:57
And it would be all his if Susan died. So he Mike claims he has nothing to do with it.
00:51:01
But there's no signs of forced entry at Susan's home. And the security record showed someone had disabled the alarm while Susan was at work.
00:51:08
Mike later said he he had just dropped the note off. But they were like, you let this killer inside me.
00:51:14
He's like, no, no, I didn't. Oh, the note was like his cover of like that proves that I was there, but it wasn't my thing.
00:51:19
I was there and I disabled the alarm, but it was so I could leave this note. And they're like, yeah, but clearly you just let this guy in at the same time.
00:51:26
And also if they're getting a divorce or divorced, why would she give it Snickers?
00:51:31
If he's going somewhere like, right. Tell me when you get back that you went somewhere.
00:51:34
Right. No, it's very, it's very stupid. Yeah. So blah, blah, blah. All these other little things happen and we know it's him.
00:51:41
The promise was a $50,000 payday for this, the dude who killed her, who got killed.
00:51:47
On August 30th, 2007, Mike pleads guilty to solicituting, solicituting? Maybe. Susan's murder.
00:51:54
Okay. And that, so the hitman's aunt writes a letter to Susan in 2010. After all this takes place saying, although this was a terrible thing that happened, no
00:52:07
one in this family has any bad feelings towards you. you did what you were forced to do and in doing so you spared many from the same trauma you
00:52:15
experienced that's right oh my god that's incredible i know so susan filed for divorce
00:52:22
the day after mike's arrest oh they were just separated yeah they hadn't divorced you okay okay
00:52:28
and by 2014 she had moved to a new portland home um and like a crazy out of the way cul-de-sac
00:52:33
she said she felt like a quote a broken plate glued back together like she's just it's so sweet
00:52:41
that she's so heartbroken about having to kill someone even though the person she killed out of
00:52:46
self-defense was the person who was sent to murder her that person who attempted to murder her yeah
00:52:51
like very seriously she's justified as brunch and what an amazing person and we all hope that we
00:52:56
would act the same way in such a situation and we're in awe of her that she did that
00:53:00
and it it doesn't really feel that way i think when it happens is what this shows us right it's
00:53:05
like first that's that's the effect that has on us right as first person especially as a nurse
00:53:12
who's like trained to save lives that's her point in life yeah that's exactly right and she's and
00:53:17
she understands why people get into the situation where they're like i'm doing so much coke i think
00:53:22
it's okay to kill someone with a claw hammer yeah oh the worst so she she's super paranoid at this
00:53:29
time she says i'm doing a life sentence for picking a bad husband which is like honey don't
00:53:35
put that on you yeah we're all broken plates that's the thing we're all broken plates we're
00:53:41
all broken plates we've never been whole plates yeah maybe right when we were born but yeah
00:53:45
somewhere around yeah i mean it's different for everybody too like this podcast for me i would say it was it really was pre that when you broke i was just like what the Frank is happening Yeah I see that I think when we first have memories like you have a memory because something happens True You know
00:54:06
Yeah, that's right. Yeah, I think. I mean, five or six, I think for me. But her. Yeah, that experience
00:54:13
would be that's something you really have to work through. Yes. So Mike is supposed to be released
00:54:19
on September 14, 2014. So she's freaking the flake out. She puts gravel all around her house
00:54:25
so she can hear any footstep. She practiced shooting at a shooting range. And she said, if he came here,
00:54:33
he was not going to get close enough to hurt me. So can you imagine how terrifying that is?
00:54:38
Then 92 days before his release on Friday the 13th of 2014, Mike died of prostate cancer in prison
00:54:45
at 65 years old. Yeah. So her name is now Susan Walters She continued to work as a nurse
00:54:53
Until December 2014 And today she's a motivational speaker And provides self-defense expertise
00:54:59
For Portland Police Bureau's Women's Strength and Girl Strength programs Yes And she's a go-to expert on victims' rights
00:55:06
Yeah She's an advocate and focuses on developing A web-based portal for crime victims
00:55:12
That portal provides a protected Single point for victims to receive updates about their offenders. So, you know, like the people are like, I, no one told me he was
00:55:20
getting out of prison or today was his parole hearing. I could have gone to and said what
00:55:24
happened. You know, you can follow that now. Yeah, that's amazing. That's so important.
00:55:29
Victims of crime, crime in Mol. Oh God, everyone. Molton, Multnomah. Multnomah County. Is that right?
00:55:36
Yeah. Can now follow their case, their offenders and access resources through the website. It's
00:55:43
casecompanion.org. And I think every fabulous city should have this. That's incredible.
00:55:46
Susan says, surviving the event itself is difficult. Surviving a prolonged and protracted criminal justice journey is also equally hard.
00:55:56
Yeah. Which we, like, totally, that's amazing. She said, being an imperfect woman, I married an imperfect man thinking that we could love, honor, and negotiate and have a good life together.
00:56:07
But he had issues around abandonment, anger, and anxiety that he couldn't overcome.
00:56:11
she says that she and the family of mike hopes that he finds the peace he didn't find in this
00:56:18
world oh and death and that's the story of susan kunhausen wow that's amazing and there's a
00:56:25
survivor i survived about it yeah that's good i watched and it's good but there's another story
00:56:30
in it one of the other two stories that's really duckling depressing which one um it's a girl
00:56:36
who's closing up like the store she works in and gets held up and like they never found the person
00:56:44
it's just like really and she's so fragile and like clearly like not ready to talk about it yeah
00:56:49
there's that show is so good it's so perfectly produced it's so well done but there are i would
00:56:55
say about five where i watch and go this person isn't ready and isn't it's beautiful that they're
00:57:03
doing it for themselves because I bet it's a great step for them and for other I'm sure other
00:57:07
people listen to it and hear it and see this woman telling the story and they're so empowered by her
00:57:11
yeah but she just seemed so fragile and I it was it made me really sad but it's also the reality
00:57:18
of it yeah it's the reality of it totally is yeah I I yeah it's so good yeah that show is incredible
00:57:25
yeah and then there was a family whose clam boat like capsized it's always they were cool too I
00:57:31
dipped into a frozen river it's like okay and i feel bad for you but there's a woman who's fighting
00:57:37
off of nasty claw hammer uh-huh we need to get back to her right now can we real quick real quick
00:57:44
those are always the stories that end first you notice that yeah the boat people the boat capsizes
00:57:49
they get rescued and then they're like well god helped me out of the ocean yeah awesome we'll talk
00:57:54
to you later. Hey, Susan. What did God not help you out of? Can you tell us? God helped them out
00:58:02
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01:00:22
All right. Well, I went a little culty with mine for this week. Good. I think because somebody recommended on Twitter, and I'm sorry I didn't write your name down,
01:00:33
because I get very defensive when people recommend British procedurals to me, as you know.
01:00:39
Yeah. Because I'm always like, how dare you come to me with a Wallander recommendation?
01:00:43
We've talked about this a lot. But I still like it. Let's talk about it more. What?
01:00:47
Let's talk about it more. Let's really do a deep dive. This is about you. Um, but somebody recommended a show called silent witness and it is basically a, it's
01:00:57
like a law and order in England where there are on, um, iTunes it's season one through
01:01:02
four and then season like 17 through 29. Like it's been on for a really long time.
01:01:08
It's a procedural and it's basically about the coroner and the medical examiner.
01:01:12
And who's the silent witness? The coroner? The coroner medical examiner or maybe the dead body.
01:01:18
Dead body. I'm going to need answers. anyway it's a cat there's a cat that lives in the coroner's office it's the coroner's cat like a
01:01:26
bodega cat but in the where it just is up on a shelf can i just say there's a there's an instagram
01:01:32
called bodega cats of instagram yeah and it's made me never want to eat at a bodega again because
01:01:37
just the photos i mean they're adorable but cats dream holes on everything on everything like
01:01:43
any snappy bag of gardettos peppercorn chips you get a cat's a bodega cat's dream hole
01:01:49
Just do a quick Clorox wipe rinse on the outside of that bag. I can never lick a bag of Gordettos again.
01:01:58
That's how you pick what flavor you want. Yeah. You lick the outside. They taste like what they're supposed to taste like, right?
01:02:03
I gotta say. That's right. The outside tastes like the inside. Just like people.
01:02:11
I love filthy. New York City, Bodegas, so much. As a country girl who we always lived five miles away from anything good.
01:02:18
Yeah. When I lived in New York, the idea that I could walk down the stairs from my apartment and literally 40 feet to the corner and go in and get a bag of Tates.
01:02:28
They always have Tates. They always have Haribo gummy bears. They have some weird like brand of ice cream sandwiches.
01:02:33
Yeah. And the name, the word bodega sounds so cool. It sounds very much like, hi, I'm an art student.
01:02:40
I sometimes free base Coke, but I also just love to come and get an Italian sub sandwich.
01:02:45
Oh my God. Okay. so anyway i went i went because i had watched i think four seasons of silent witness and there
01:02:53
were some it's such it's very dramatically produced and there's a lot of like her just
01:02:57
standing over a dead body being like you know the victim is in a in rigor where you're you're like
01:03:03
okay this is very real like yeah it's because it's boring a little it's a touch boring
01:03:08
they're not afraid to go boring in england because that's what it's really like because
01:03:12
it's real there's one where it was about a bunch of people who died on a boat and then every time
01:03:18
so they were just sitting there waiting at the harbor waiting for the dead bodies to get transported
01:03:23
in from the ocean and then every time it would there would just be this terrible horn that would
01:03:27
sound and i was like i bet this is what really happens this is awful like this is when i turn it
01:03:33
off exactly because you're like i don't want to experience this maybe it will happen to me someday
01:03:38
so how about i don't go through it now right i don't want to hear oh god in the fred willard
01:03:43
show that i'm watching why do they keep driving dead bodies up in these jalopies it's not funny
01:03:50
it's not i don't appreciate it okay so anyway i had a lot of that so then i was like let's take
01:03:56
a nice left turn and go into a little cult area great um and i thought about the one that i've
01:04:02
always been obsessed with which is the order of the solar temple oh my god so this was the one
01:04:07
where on October 4th, 1994, and this was on, so remember back 94. Remember it. It was on all the news.
01:04:15
I don't remember this. Okay. Get ready. Because you might as, I encourage you to yell out when you remember.
01:04:22
I'm going to. You don't have to encourage me. Okay. So October 4th, 1994, it's a place called Morin.
01:04:30
I'm assuming it's pronounced Morin Heights. It's a ski resort near Montreal. And authorities are called to the scene of a burning condominium.
01:04:37
And when they get inside, put the fire out, they find two charred dead bodies. So they look up who owns the condominium and on the whatever mortgage papers.
01:04:50
I don't know. I put owner's documents. Owner's stuff? The signage page area? Yeah.
01:04:57
The owners are two men, Joseph DiMombro and Luc Jure. So they assume that these two charred bodies are the owners.
01:05:05
But then as the investigators make their way through the burned condominium apartment, they find three more bodies in the back of the house in like stacked in a closet.
01:05:16
And those bodies are identified as a man named Tony Dutoy or Dutoy and his wife, Nikki, and their three month old son, Christopher Emmanuel.
01:05:28
Are they burned, too? or they just they're burned but then once the investigators start looking into it they realize
01:05:34
that that front two bodies and the back bodies are all covered in blood so before they burned
01:05:42
they were covered in blood oh my god so then they're like something actually happened here
01:05:46
well then on tony body he was stabbed over 50 times in the back holy shrub nikki was stabbed in the chest and like upper body area like six or seven times oh my god this is the worst part the baby was stabbed in the heart with a wooden stake so they like what fake a cult shark week
01:06:10
is going on here i have never heard this before it's it's bad tell me everything okay so they re
01:06:17
then they realize that one of the two bodies that they found originally up in the front of the house
01:06:22
One of them is a woman. So they're like, I don't think this is the owners. Something insane happened here.
01:06:28
So they put out arrest warrants for the owners because they had the police discover that all five of these people were members of the Order of the Solar Temple, which was a very secretive sect founded by the two men on the owner's papers, Joseph DiMombro and Luke Jure.
01:06:45
then the police find out that tony and his wife nikki had recently left the cult after speaking
01:06:51
again out against these leaders and so that's when the cops are like okay we gotta arrest these guys
01:06:57
but they're nowhere to be found the next day or it's the same let's see it's october 5th in um
01:07:04
the swiss village of syrie is how it's pronounced there's a farmhouse that's on fire and when the
01:07:12
firemen in this Swiss village, um, go there and put it out. They find the owner inside. He's slumped
01:07:19
over the kitchen table and there's a plastic bag over his head. So they think, Oh no, he's an
01:07:25
elderly farmer and he's committed suicide. Um, then they find a gunshot wound in the back of his
01:07:31
head and they're like, Oh, so then as they inspect the house, they start finding incendiary devices
01:07:37
all over the house. And then they start looking in the outbuildings on the property. So there's
01:07:42
more buildings aside from the farmhouse. They start to investigate these buildings. They also
01:07:47
have these incendiary devices in them. And one of them, uh, the cop, one of the cops observes
01:07:54
that the outside of the building is really big, but when they go in, it's really small.
01:07:58
There's just a small space and it's like an office that looks really busy. It looks like
01:08:02
there's people that come there to work every day or whatever, but it's compared to the outside.
01:08:06
They're like, they start looking for secret panels and they find one. And basically what happens is an entire section of wall is found to be able to slide back.
01:08:18
Oh my God. On the other side of this wall, they find a huge secret chamber. It's decorated floor to ceiling in red.
01:08:26
No. It has these weird mirrors on every wall that at the top are kind of shaped a little bit like,
01:08:33
I don't know what the word is. It's like that, you know, like the top of a Turkish turret or whatever, where it looks like a Hershey's kiss.
01:08:40
Swoopy. Fatter. Yes. Anyway, it's all like ritualized. There's weird, these weird stands, like lecterns that are gold that are in there.
01:08:52
And there's, so basically it's all obviously used for some kind of religious right.
01:08:57
Some straight up culty. Jury duty? Culty. Jury duty. There's champagne bottles on the ground.
01:09:02
Okay. And in the middle of the floor, arranged in a star formation, feet in the center, head to the outside, are 18 corpses.
01:09:13
18? 18. They're all wearing either red, gold, or black ceremonial capes. And some have plastic bags over their heads.
01:09:23
Then they find another, a second secret room. There's three more bodies inside that room.
01:09:29
And there's a ton of blood in both rooms. Oh, my God. So the police basically start putting together.
01:09:35
Can you imagine stumbling upon that? No, it's a something on a secret hidden room.
01:09:40
Yes. Like, which is awesome. The roller coaster of emotions. Yeah. Cop went through where he's like, I'm the one that, hey, I knit.
01:09:47
And then they slide the wall back and it's like, well, here you go. Yeah. This is what you wanted.
01:09:50
Here's your secret room, friend. So they realize that this is obviously a ritualized mass suicide.
01:09:59
Yeah. But there's so much blood in the room. they're like oh this wasn't voluntary for a lot of these people um yeah and most of the people had
01:10:08
been killed by gunshot wounds to the head that were not self-inflicted so that's how they start
01:10:12
putting together that this was yeah perhaps non-voluntary suicide or as we like to call it
01:10:20
murder uh okay non-voluntary the worst kind of suicide non-voluntary um i am a professional
01:10:31
uh psych uh cop okay so then two days later a hundred miles away in the swiss resort village
01:10:41
of grange sir salvan thank you so much do you know it sounds nothing like that yeah but it
01:10:47
sounds better when you say it i just i'm trying to sell it like i'm a waitress at a fancy french
01:10:53
cafe right would you like a croc monsieur or a grand chassion yeah um okay so which is french for
01:11:00
baked onion okay the fire department is called to now three adjacent chalets that are all on fire
01:11:07
and inside each they find eerily similar scenes to the uh syrie fire um this time 25 bodies are
01:11:17
discovered, including three teenagers and four children. And most of these bodies, these victims have been poisoned and they're all identified through
01:11:26
dental records to also be members of the order of the solar temple. And in this situation, only 15 of the 47 were true suicides.
01:11:37
The rest were murders. So now the search for the co-founders of the order of the solar temple goes international.
01:11:44
Mm hmm. So basically, this cult was founded by this guy, Joseph de Mambro, who was born in southern France. He studied to be a clockmaker and a jeweler, but he always had interest in the occult. And when he was in his 30s, he joined the Rose Aquatic.
01:12:00
Rosicutions or the Order of the Rosy Cross and it's another so there's all these secret cults
01:12:07
or sects that were that are based on the Knights Templar so the Knights Templar were the knights
01:12:14
who went on the first crusades and they came back and then they were so dedicated to this
01:12:20
spreading of Christianity down into the Middle East that they began to protect it was like they
01:12:29
vowed to protect all these Christian pilgrims that were going down into the Middle East. So they would,
01:12:35
they basically kind of were out there protecting people, but they also made a ton of money because
01:12:41
of the, because of the Crusades, they were just out there, you know, obviously killing and
01:12:45
pillaging and doing all their stuff. So they became very rich. Then their power, they were so
01:12:52
well regarded that they became really powerful. And of course, then the popes were like, who are
01:12:56
these mother corn nuts we're supposed to be the most powerful so then they became hunted and then
01:13:01
that's when they went underground and it was all secret secret secret so that's what all these
01:13:05
people and that's kind of like the um like the dan brown books and stuff where it's all the
01:13:09
knights templar this and the knights templar that if the guy if the guy or gal who does uh animate
01:13:15
my podcast would animate that part of you telling me explaining to me the crusades because it's i
01:13:23
would say i would guess right now yeah and hopefully there's a history professor listening
01:13:28
oh yeah i think i probably got that 57 right i think i would have passed a test but not well
01:13:34
right a d plus a d plus which is pretty much my average and now and you it would make you happy
01:13:40
now and then the press would be like you're not supposed to be happy about that you're like
01:13:43
flipping pass bye pass bye and i never thought i could yeah because i can't read um so definitely
01:13:52
let me know all the information I'm missing in the 300 years that the Knights Templar were in action.
01:13:59
But essentially it became that thing. And we've all seen the Dan Brown. What is that book that
01:14:05
I can't think of? The Da Vinci Code. Thank you, Stephen. Stephen loves literature. Um,
01:14:10
but it's just this idea that essentially they were protecting Mary Magdalene who was carrying Jesus's
01:14:16
baby you know that's like at the end of the day that is supposedly um the what what do they call
01:14:22
that the truth the bible uh christianity what's the cup oh the kiddish cup holy grail thank you
01:14:36
the holy grail is jesus's baby right it's also called the kiddish cup we had it first oh that's
01:14:42
true so don't come at me with yeah you explain it to me i'm forking know what's going on
01:14:46
Anyway, this is a religion podcast. It's all about secrets. They base this whole thing on like secrets, hidden treasure, hidden money, making sure
01:14:55
that they could always kind of get this, the Christianity where they needed it to go and
01:14:59
have missionaries protected. Okay. So secret societies are like, got to keep it up, keep up with the Christians.
01:15:06
Right. But then as we know, when things are secret, then little power structures come up and then
01:15:13
And suddenly you've got two people that are like, well, I'm in charge of the secret sect.
01:15:17
And now I've decided we're going to do a little something extra. We're going to wash everybody's feet in a bucket.
01:15:22
Right. We're going to do. They start adding their own gravy. And it's like, no longer are you a Knights Templar.
01:15:27
Now you're a foot washer. Now you're some kind of like, I feel like everyone, every woman needs to honk me before we start this ceremony.
01:15:35
How many times have I said this? French. The government. And I'll say it again. this is not my friendly phrase
01:15:44
that's right Elvis knows he's like I'm sick of you saying that he knows he's so sick of it okay so
01:15:52
any anyhow I lost my place entirely okay that's what this podcast is called where am I um he in 1973 Joseph de Mambra moves to the Swiss border he starts a group called the
01:16:08
center for the preparation of the new age. Okay. So, you know, hot stuff is happening in this group.
01:16:13
Let's get together. Let's weave some looms. Let's make pottery. Let's talk about the Knights
01:16:19
Templars. What year is this again? 73. Okay. And he begins to tell his followers or the people in
01:16:25
the group that he is the reincarnation of the God Osiris and of Moses. And then he starts telling
01:16:31
them, you're the reincarnation of Napoleon and you're the reincarnation of Cleopatra and everybody
01:16:38
But he's the reincarnation of some famous political leader or royalty of some kind.
01:16:43
Doubt it. And then he starts telling them he's the one that's going to decide who's having a relationship with who, because he's the only one who knows who they were originally were.
01:16:55
And now we have this chance to breed a master race of children. So let's make sure that like Cleopatra has sex with Napoleon or whatever.
01:17:03
He's making up all the sugar. People like, yes, sounds good. Everyone's like, yeah, we want a bone.
01:17:07
Yeah. Yeah, we want to bone and we want to be dead famous people. Right. So he basically is like, I'm in charge of who gets married.
01:17:15
I'm in charge of who gets to have children. So it becomes he goes from like, we're a group that gets together to talk about how grab the Knights Templar are.
01:17:23
And now it's like, I control every aspect of your life, which is how it always goes.
01:17:27
even though that's how intense and bizarre it was all these respected citizens and extremely
01:17:33
wealthy people join this thing because it's all about the um he sells this idea that you if you
01:17:40
give enough money you can like absorb the spirituality and power of the knights templar
01:17:46
it's this honorable society and you join it and you're forwarding the christian movement or what
01:17:51
i don know whatever um so because rich people get bored is really what that means they get board and they we all want guarantees yeah so it like I going to give this guy who who claims to be what did he um he also claimed to be the reincarnation of a 14th century night night Templar whatever
01:18:11
Um, and then the other guy, uh, Luke Jure, he claimed to be the third incarnation of
01:18:16
Jesus Christ. He went straight to the top. Oh man. Yeah. So basically people are getting into it.
01:18:22
And at that time he changed the name. Joseph de Mambo in 1978 changes the name to the foundation of the golden way.
01:18:30
He takes a core group of the followers. And I was like, we're super into this. Let's go start the foundation of the golden way.
01:18:36
And in that group, that's when Luke Jure shows up. He is Luke Jure was born in the Belgian Congo.
01:18:44
He studied to be an actual doctor. Then he decides he's not into like traditional medicine.
01:18:50
and he wants to be an alternative healer. So then he starts getting really into holistic medicine
01:18:55
and really into new age Chipotle. And he starts, he becomes like a star on the new age circuit.
01:19:02
He's the one that like in the mid late 70s is out there telling everybody, here's how you tap into your inner, the God Osiris or whatever the truck it is.
01:19:11
When you stop worrying about gas, you don't have to worry about gas prices and having a job and money because you're wealthy.
01:19:17
Yeah, don't worry about any of the things that everybody else in Jimmy Carter's America are freaking out about.
01:19:22
Don't worry about it. Yeah, because you have enough money. So come join a cult. Come secret sect with us.
01:19:28
So when they meet, Joe DiMambro knows that this guy, he's like the face man. He's going to be the perfect pitch man for their new cult, which they in 1984 basically reconfigure.
01:19:41
Yeah, it's going on for so long. They reconfigure and call themselves the Order of the Solar Temple.
01:19:46
So that's when Luke Jure comes into Joe DeMombro's life. That's when it all clicks.
01:19:51
So in this group, they have these rituals that are based on ancient Christian and Masonic rites.
01:19:58
It's all secret. So all the members are secret. All that, you know, nobody tells anybody else that they're in this group.
01:20:04
And at its height, they had lodges in Canada, Australia, Switzerland and Martinique.
01:20:09
I mean, I'll join just a clunking. Go on vacay. I mean, right. Just go to an island and then pretend you're Cleopatra.
01:20:16
Skiing in Switzerland. Skiing in Martinique. So that was a joke, everybody. I know Martinique is a beautiful island.
01:20:26
So soon the topic changes. And when I say soon, I mean after seven years or the brunch.
01:20:32
Soon. These people stay in this weird cult. They start sending this message that an apocalypse is coming.
01:20:40
It's an environmental apocalypse. man has caused it it's man's fault that it's going to happen and only the elite are going to survive
01:20:48
it oh great so if you want to be in that group why don't you kick down all of the money that you have
01:20:54
no yeah they they make everybody give them all of their money yeah and it's this insurance so
01:20:59
eventually that message becomes um the reason that you should trust us is that joe's daughter
01:21:07
whose name was Emmanuel. She was one of nine existing cosmic children who would lead them all to a planet
01:21:15
that was next to the star Sirius. And his son also, Eli, I believe his name was,
01:21:21
his destiny, Eli's destiny, was to usher in the New Age. So luckily, the leader of this cult's two children
01:21:28
were the key pieces to get them to... So basically, the Earth was going to end for environmental reasons.
01:21:35
and then they were going to travel via a path of fire to a planet that's next to the star series
01:21:42
everyone's like it's great it's crazy and i want to be like how the whack like there's there's the
01:21:47
podcast heaven's gate that's like super good that like my sad retelling of uh the heaven's gate
01:21:53
story last week before the podcast came out by the way i just i didn't know about it yet it was
01:21:59
good um they like focus on a couple actual cult members and explain how it happened and you kind
01:22:05
of get it a little more but it's just so bananas and bonkers i think it comes down to that feeling
01:22:11
of like when life is feels really plain all the time yeah and then you get introduced to an idea
01:22:16
of you're special and there's more than there's more than this and you're correct everyone else
01:22:21
is is going along with their everyday life and they're all lemmings you're special i see how
01:22:27
special you are come in do my ritual yeah let me show you i have i have knowledge yeah i have and
01:22:34
i will impart on to you yes listen i'm starting a call right now yeah i mean i'm believing are you
01:22:39
in here are you the god osiris i have elvis sitting on my lap staring at me she is petting
01:22:45
a cat in a kind of evil cult-like way okay so uncross his eyes it's a miracle yeah she's real
01:22:53
Yeah. Since recording this episode in 2018, our cult has grown into a worldwide organization.
01:23:00
If you're interested in learning more about our cult, go to myfavoritemurder.com, promo code murder.
01:23:05
So, okay, so basically that talk goes on so long that, of course, nothing ends up happening.
01:23:12
And the members are like, yeah, okay, you've been talking about this apocalypse for a while.
01:23:16
Nothing's going on. And I've given you like millions of dollars. Make the apocalypse happen.
01:23:20
Yeah. I want everyone else to die. I want to see what you're talking about. I want these things to happen.
01:23:25
Well, also, meanwhile, they started getting, of course, super crazy with their power.
01:23:30
They were buying houses everywhere. They had everybody's money. So they're out like they've got houses here.
01:23:36
And, you know, as you saw, chalets and condos in every city. They're hiding dump rooms.
01:23:42
They've got they can build things that look like small rooms, but that are actually big rooms.
01:23:46
It's crazy. And so the members are like yeah you seem to be getting a lot of stuff but like our you know it on our dime Yeah So then Luke jure is voted out as grandmaster of the canadian branch of the temple how mad is he because he starts to demand that when that that
01:24:11
one woman has sex with him before every ritual for his to build strength and everyone's like okay
01:24:17
all the members are like you're losing your shampoo and it's obvious and it's creepy
01:24:22
so then he gets voted out well then uh joe de mambro is just like wait no it's our cult yeah
01:24:29
you can't get voted out what are you doing yeah um this isn't a funnel cake fantasy island or
01:24:34
whatever yeah you mean survivor yes yes you knew just as a bit of information luke jure it shouldn't
01:24:42
be a surprise that he lost his shampoo because before joining the order of the solar temple
01:24:47
He belonged to a racist neo-Nazi magical organization co-founded by a former Gestapo officer named Julian Origas.
01:24:57
And he was also an illegal arms dealer. So he wasn't a great, like he wasn't a nice.
01:25:02
Do a little background check, rich people. Yeah. Are you a good guy? Can you ride a horse?
01:25:07
Are you an arms dealer? These things should disqualify you. So then this is all building, right?
01:25:14
So they're like slightly losing control. It's like, oh, no, no, focus on my cosmic daughter or whatever.
01:25:20
Then in February of 1993, it's the 54 day siege of Waco. Oh, shoot. Right. So on all of our TVs, we all saw the Branch Davidians and David Koresh and everything.
01:25:34
We saw that whole thing go up in flames. Is that going to be a podcast soon or a TV show?
01:25:39
I think it's a TV show. Like a documentary. I think it's one of those American crimes or something.
01:25:46
experience i want to see a good documentary oh that'd be fun just the longest american dad of all time um he works for the cia
01:26:00
so okay so after that happens and everybody watched it on tv and everyone's like oh no
01:26:06
more cults for me exactly i think i've had enough i'm full is the funniest thing in the world to me
01:26:10
where they're like oh this is where we're headed we're not we're not actually headed to a planet
01:26:14
next to the star series no we're just gonna burn government style right french the government
01:26:20
listen it's the government okay so please please don't hurt me government that won't work
01:26:27
so this is my favorite part so as all of this is right it's crumbling it's crumbling our millions
01:26:35
you know people are walking away our secret and they really did have they had millionaires they
01:26:39
had scientists they had famous architects there was people in this cult very high level people
01:26:44
a very famous swiss composer so it's like a bunch of smarty pants smarty pants and richie's smarty
01:26:50
smart and marty i mean the whole place smelled like all onions aftershave so what am i saying
01:26:58
so okay then they discover that so our friend tony duetois duetois i don't remember how i
01:27:06
pronounced it the man who was found stabbed 50 times and can't in the apartment in canada with
01:27:11
his wife and daughter and baby and his wife and baby okay so it turns out he was a long-time member
01:27:18
of the order of the solar temple and he discovered so they would have these rites and rituals and
01:27:25
when joe dimambro did them he could make things fly he could make things like appear out of nowhere
01:27:31
There's all these weird things he did that made people believe that he was special and had special powers.
01:27:37
Well, it turns out Tony Dutrois discovers that he was using lasers and holograms.
01:27:43
No. And he was back in 90. I'm impressed by that. And 94. Yeah. Even earlier. Yeah.
01:27:49
He he basically set it up. So the whole thing was like special effects and fog and light show or whatever and made people believe it was his power.
01:27:57
She was spending. He was spending their money, a ton of money because, you know,
01:28:01
a hologram back then was very expensive. It's basically like Coach, a Coachella tuba DJ set.
01:28:07
Yeah. But just him and 12 people in robes. So Tony finds out about this and starts going,
01:28:15
you guys, this is super fake. We, this is a whole thing as a fraud to the point where,
01:28:20
and so much like distrust and disillusion was going through the whole cult down to Joe DiMombrough's own children who were like,
01:28:29
our dad's a fraud. like everybody was starting to bail i am not a space cadet my dad is lying i can't lead you to
01:28:35
that planet no but that's my favorite that it was like the the straw that broke the camel's back was
01:28:41
that his holograms and lasers were discovered yeah so then everyone's just bailing like crazy
01:28:46
okay so then he so basically tony tells everybody and then like gets out of town
01:28:54
so joe de mambro announced to the remaining members that the du tois three-month-old son
01:28:59
was the antichrist and needed to be assassinated yes that's so the two bodies that were in that
01:29:06
condo uh from the beginning of this story turned out to be 35 year old jerry janeau
01:29:11
and 60 60 year old colette janeau um they murdered the du tois murdered that baby and
01:29:19
then committed suicide and lit that apartment on fire with the incendiary device that was like all
01:29:25
the incendiary devices flipping shirt yes so what awful awful people so crazy and then like once they
01:29:33
knew that was happening they they know it's over so they announced to the rest of the membership
01:29:37
that the apocalypse has arrived and it's time for um all of them to travel to the planet next to the
01:29:45
star serious. Let's go. So it's mass suicide time. And because they, they were saying the
01:29:51
transformation takes place in fire That why all those incendiary that where all the buildings were burning So what were the incendiary devices made of Do you know I don But in my mind it looks like a light switch with the plate off the front Yeah
01:30:05
And like there's a little thing tied to this thing and a little. And then a mouse chews the rope.
01:30:11
Yes. Right. And then boom. Yeah. But the mouse survives. That's right. The mouse is fine.
01:30:17
The mouse is innocent. And then a cat swoops down and eats the mouse. Yay. so it was at that farmhouse from the beginning in syrie uh where joe de mambro and luke jure met
01:30:30
their end along with 21 other members so they were okay they were in syrie then okay so the
01:30:37
reason that it's so amazing to me is because i remember very distinctly when i saw it on the news
01:30:41
they were so vague and it's still you can barely get any good information never heard of this what
01:30:46
was really happening but i remember seeing it on the news and being like i want to know more
01:30:50
And all you ever heard was. So then again, in 1995 in Grenoble, they find 16 bodies out in the forest.
01:31:02
Uh huh. And they in an area they called Hell's Hell's Entrance or Hell's Hole or something, which is super creepy.
01:31:10
And the creep that you can see a picture online. It's a forest. There's police tape.
01:31:15
It looks like it's from like a helicopter. There's police tape. And then it just looks like there's a weird orange light.
01:31:21
It's super creepy. I have never, I flapping. Google weird murders, weird deaths, weird, you know, all the time.
01:31:28
And I've never heard of this. Fold some Knights Templar in there. Fold in cult. Okay.
01:31:33
Fold in. Well, so in that forest, there were 16 bodies. And this is a year later.
01:31:39
Then two years after that in Quebec, in March of 97, five people are found dead.
01:31:44
and at the last minute three children who were supposed to also die convinced their parents who
01:31:51
ended up dead convinced their parents that they wanted to live and their parents let them go so
01:31:57
three kids escaped i want to interview them right what's that why they're still killing themselves
01:32:03
even though it's over yes two years later like by who like why it's so crazy or three years later
01:32:12
So the total number of deaths in the order of the solar temple is 74. Jesus. And their members included scientists, architects, policemen, and children.
01:32:22
And the group had between 400 and 600 members. It's estimated to have made in its prime $93 million.
01:32:32
Sugar. And in the Grenoble scene in 1995, where they found 16 bodies, the wife of famous champion skier Jean Varney, who was the inventor of the awesome 80s sunglasses, his wife Edith and their youngest son Patrick were among the 16 victims.
01:32:53
So they couldn't have been richer. Those people, they had, Varney in the 80s was like, you couldn't be richer.
01:32:59
Are they the ones with the swoopy thing here? The weird thing here? No, Varnays were like the kind of the original ski sunglasses.
01:33:05
So they were mirrored and they were like kind of plastic. Yeah. Every cartoon skier.
01:33:10
Yep. Instructor has this. Rich guys. We went skiing the first time we went to Tahoe when I was eight.
01:33:17
They made us take ski lessons and my sister had a pair of Varnays on. And I, instead of listening to the ski instructor, just kept staring at myself in the mirrored
01:33:26
reflection of my sister's sunglasses. So I didn't listen to how to stop or what to do.
01:33:30
and so basically we went down one run and i was like i'm i need to take these off i'm leaving
01:33:36
yeah i'm not doing this i don't know what's going on and then we just played in the snow all day
01:33:40
exactly um here's a more interesting one channel four the british um tv station they made a
01:33:47
documentary alleging that grace kelly the princess of monica was also initiated into the order of the
01:33:54
solar temple just months before her car accident that took her life yeah she was in a car accident
01:33:59
Some say she was not in that car. Some say the body was never found. But her estate denies any association with the Order of the Solar Temple.
01:34:08
But the filmmakers who made this documentary for Channel 4 talked to the acupuncturist who worked on Princess Grace before her orientation initiation ceremony.
01:34:22
Because apparently they did acupuncture to relax people so that they weren't freaked out, I guess.
01:34:27
And that woman attested to the fact that it was Princess Grace, but didn't want to give her name or information because she's scared because she says that the Order of the Solar Temple is still in effect today, still has members.
01:34:41
And she's scared of those members coming to retaliate against her. Like they're hiding out in plain sight.
01:34:46
Stephen! Stephen. And so the very last thing is when Princess Grace's car crashed in Monaco, her car landed in the yard of a member of the Order of the Solar Temple.
01:35:01
Karen. Yeah. That was good. That was a good one, right? That was a really good one.
01:35:07
It goes all the way to the top. Dude. I know. I want to know everything. I want to know what these people talked about.
01:35:13
There's photos. Are there pictures? Yes. there's pictures of uh and it's all the the faces are blacked out there's black bars across the eyes
01:35:20
of like an actual ritual but then there's the empty room where they found the bodies they
01:35:26
i know the ones i saw it was just the room without the bodies lying in it but then you can also see
01:35:31
there's like graphs of how they laid out the bodies in star formation i want that i want that i want
01:35:36
that yes and i think the one the people that killed themselves last in 1997 in canada were
01:35:42
laid out in a crucifix formation. So the people who who unintentional suicide, those people, did they ever
01:35:51
figure out if they like were just like kill me or they were like held hostage or because like I could see people like,
01:35:58
I don't want to kill myself, but just shoot me the back of the head yeah i think what they were saying is the theory is that it wasn't
01:36:04
they were like i don't want to do this it was like they went there for other reasons
01:36:08
some of them think they were drugged or poisoned but then it was then they fought them because
01:36:14
there was so much blood that it wasn't just like putting people down in an orderly fashion
01:36:18
there was like it was a real bloody crime scene so they think it was that's what led them to
01:36:24
believe it was the against against your will suicide that's crazy it's flipping nuts
01:36:29
man alive secret cults secret cults where is the treasure there's treasure treasure oh yeah the knights templar they supposedly that's like nick cage
01:36:44
style they supposedly oh is that what that is yeah because they went and pillaged everything
01:36:49
down in like the holy land they stole all the sugar from the friendly jewish people what's up
01:36:54
That's right. Chosen ones. So it's your birthright to go and find those gold doubloons and take them back.
01:37:04
Let's do it. I would love to. Let's go on an adventure. Okay. Okay. Goodbye. Goodbye.
01:37:11
That was amazing. Thank you. Thank you for that. Absolutely. Love a cult. What did we...
01:37:17
Well, we've come to the end, my friends. Oh, yeah. What's a... Do you have a fun thing for this week?
01:37:22
A thing that made me happy? Yeah. No, do you? Well, I do actually. Okay, great. Maybe it'll inspire me.
01:37:29
Okay, good. But this is a it a repeat of one I done before but it in kind of an update and it very exciting because my favorite band and now many other people favorite band Sure Sure finally came out with an album It self It says Sure Sure You can get it on Spotify You can get it on iTunes
01:37:45
And it is so godding ding good. It's all that's like single releases that they had before.
01:37:52
And then a bunch of new songs I've never heard before that are so beautiful. And it's just great. I just got it and I love it.
01:38:00
So, well, if we're going to do, this will be the music. Perfect. Thing. Vince got us tickets.
01:38:06
So Vince surprised me with tickets to go see the band Jawbreaker. Nice. Which I'm like super excited to go see them.
01:38:15
I've never, I've never seen them play. I've been in love with them forever. Great old band.
01:38:19
Everyone go listen. But it's also, I love that Vince does shrub like that. And it's really sweet.
01:38:26
And like, I would never go see music or anything live. Vince is like into that shirt yeah so like he does it and then I'm like why don't I do this more
01:38:35
and I know yeah so I it's nice to because you have friends like me that are like um I'm tired
01:38:40
well you know I'm not gonna go that night like that night I'm gonna be sick like I am every night
01:38:46
but it's sweet that he did it it's so good oh wait so it's future you haven't done it yet yeah
01:38:49
I haven't done it yet he just bought tickets to go see jawbreaker that's awesome I'm you know 20
01:38:54
something year old Georgia's like you put it on the radio today and I got really excited. Yes!
01:39:00
That's exciting. Yeah. Alright! Thanks for listening you guys. Guys, thanks for once again going through that with us.
01:39:09
We have had it up to here with not going through this with you Because we love it so much It very fun It a very fun job And on our two year anniversary Thank you so much Thank you so much This is the best
01:39:26
ever. It's crazy. Lucky. Wonderful. Yeah. Thanks, everybody. Thanks, Stephen. Thanks, Stephen.
01:39:32
We'll thank you more in six months. Yeah. When you earn it when you've earned it when you've
01:39:37
been through the shark week like we have when you finally French the government the way we need you
01:39:43
to Elvis knows he's been here from the happy beginning he was he was here before us yeah
01:39:48
he'll be here after he will remain after we are gone yep that's it all right well then stay saved
01:39:55
and do God's mission bye Elvis yeah yeah This has been an Exactly Right production.
01:40:10
Our producer is Alejandra Keck. Our senior producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. This episode was edited by Liana Squilacci.
01:40:18
Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.
01:40:23
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