00:00:00
This is exactly right. Audible. Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes
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00:01:48
Hello. And welcome. To My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstark. Hi, that's Karen Kilgariff.
00:01:57
Bye. And that's that. How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. Good. It was a rainy Los Angeles day.
00:02:09
Ugh. I love it so much, the rain. The rare rain in Los Angeles. Okay, I have to ask you, did you watch this fucking documentary on Netflix that just came out?
00:02:22
American. American Nightmare. I have not. I've only seen people talking about it and freaking out about it.
00:02:28
It is so troubling. And it's from right by your hometown, I think, right? It's Vallejo, right?
00:02:35
Yeah. Yeah. It's so upsetting and troubling and incredible and unbelievable. And I cried at the end,
00:02:44
which I don't ever do. Yeah. I totally cried at the end. But yeah, you have to watch it and then we should talk about it.
00:02:51
It's a real life gone girl type of story. I have definitely heard of that story.
00:02:57
And when the actual like investigation started where they were like, how did this happen that
00:03:05
that this wasn't handled? It's infuriating. And it's just the example of like, this is why women overwhelmingly have a hard time
00:03:13
reporting their sexual assault because we're not believed. It's, you know, you're going to scream and pull your fucking hair out.
00:03:19
Yeah. Yeah. Also, because it's so surreal. Like the things that are being described when it's actually,
00:03:26
you can tell that the genre is like turning on itself because when you hear in the trailer,
00:03:32
you're like, oh, it's this guy, he's guilty. Or you're doing the thing where you're trying to pick
00:03:37
what's going to happen and kind of like settle it in the trailer. And they're just like, no,
00:03:42
no, get ready. I mean, it's only two parts of the show. I mean, oh my God, it was,
00:03:47
it was awful yeah this woman is so resilient denise who the story is about incredible i was
00:03:54
over busy watching the end or finishing up this current season of fargo which i loved and thought
00:04:00
was great i gave up i gave up on it yeah you love it is it good yeah it was great okay here's the
00:04:07
thing these days though i don't know what gets anybody through anything anymore like how many
00:04:13
screens can we hold up in front of our faces to act like everything at the store doesn't cost $10
00:04:18
and what that means to people who don't have $10. Like, what the fuck? It's like, to me,
00:04:25
I'm watching everything kind of clasping my hands together. And also, I know right now I'm
00:04:30
turning away from very important things. Absolutely. It's horrible. That's life.
00:04:34
It's just the constant need to turn away and an inability to. Well, and this kind of it rising where it's like year by year since 2016, it's just been more to turn away from.
00:04:48
Where now it's like, can true crime do it anymore? I don't know. Right. I don't know where my escape level needs to be at.
00:04:54
Yeah. Speaking of, did you see that Los Angeles Innocence Project has accepted Scott Peterson as a client?
00:05:01
No. Yeah. They said there's new evidence that might change the outcome of his conviction.
00:05:09
Hmm. I know. Well, you have to consider that people that work at a place like that
00:05:14
know what they're talking about. Right. Right. The Innocence Project has to be nothing but
00:05:20
respectable. Right. So like, there's got to be something that we don't know. Yes. On this show, there's always a lot we don't know. Jesus Christ. On this show,
00:05:30
there's that's the given. Who? Us? Whom? Whom? I think, though, I can still remember parts of you covering that story.
00:05:40
Yeah, not that long ago. There's parts of it I just will never get out of my head.
00:05:44
This is the issue with when we know these stories well. Right. That it's very easy to then just go, nope, impossible.
00:05:52
Yeah. But what about this and this and this, if you know all the information? I guess they focusing on the fact that there was a break across the street from the Peterson household the day Lacey went missing Wow That somehow involved in it There not a lot of info out there
00:06:05
Well, and if it's the idea of everything must be investigated and if somebody gets railroaded, which we know in this day and age is very possible,
00:06:15
and the Innocence Project is simply saying we must at least look into it, then I agree.
00:06:21
Totally. What fun thing has happened to you this week? I think this is, yeah, this is, this is, do you want a fun thing? Do you have a fun thing?
00:06:32
I could think of one if you tell me one first. Well, that's the whole key to thinking of one is someone else is telling you one.
00:06:40
Let's see. I got a chemical peel on my face. Yes. Here we go. That's exciting. Right? Like
00:06:46
did it hurt? Was your face numb? No, it's just kind of tight and itchy and it's starting to
00:06:51
peel, which is fucking wild. It's like a hardcore one because I have melasma, which is the
00:06:55
hyperpigmentation that's really hard to treat. So I'm fucking so excited about this. I love the
00:07:01
recovery process and peeling and looking a little bit unhinged. Sure. And that is an excuse to be like, oh, I'm so sorry. I can't. I couldn't possibly.
00:07:11
I did go yesterday to a football thing, like a friend's house for football. But it was like
00:07:16
people that are so low key that I was like, I'm just going to tell them what happened and
00:07:20
they're not going to care. It wasn't like a big party, but I definitely like saw myself in the
00:07:25
mirror a couple of times and was like, oh my God, I'm just talking to this person about like my dog
00:07:30
and I look like I'm from a horror movie. That's almost like a next level social anxiety practice
00:07:37
where you're like, hey, maybe I don't have this at all if I can convince myself to do this. But
00:07:43
also that's like quality of friendship. Right. Maybe these are my people that I was like,
00:07:48
there is not a single fucking person there that I was like, this person's going to judge me.
00:07:52
So that's nice. Dream football game. Just a dream. Tori, our host made twice baked potatoes
00:07:57
with fucking buffalo chicken on top of them. So that was a win. That is like a perfect football
00:08:07
game snack or dinner, however you had it. That sounds amazing. We got a lot of messages about
00:08:15
people needing to tell us about the baked potato trucks in their community. They did. Yeah. And I
00:08:22
thought that it's really beautiful that that's out there for people like, hell yes, leave your house,
00:08:28
get a baked potato, get a twice baked potato, throw some buffalo chicken on there, make it your own.
00:08:33
And it makes me so happy that this is the kind of podcast where people are, it's true crime comedy,
00:08:37
but really quickly, let me tell you where you can get a baked potato next time you're in Detroit.
00:08:40
Let's focus on the fundamentals. F-U-N. What about you? What's your plus? I was going to say I went to get my hair done.
00:08:49
That's cute, Bob. Thank you. Right when the Zoom started, I was like, oh, I should have at least brushed this.
00:08:54
It's cute. It's kicky. It's very kicky. Thank you. Also, this was the hair I had all through the 90s.
00:09:00
It's very 90s. Yeah. Now, Vince must be thrilled. Oh, yeah. Vince and your dad are texting every week about football.
00:09:09
next week your dad's team and Vince's team are playing each other oh shit and I was like because
00:09:15
it's in San Francisco I was like go pick up home gym and take him and he's like we wouldn't get
00:09:20
along it's like oh it's like maybe I'd go to his house and watch it but we're not going to the no
00:09:26
he wouldn't go to a stadium because first of all and you can talk to anybody in the Bay Area the
00:09:31
stadium is now in San Jose which is insane and it's just like oh it used to be right outside in
00:09:36
Daily City or right outside. Now it's kind of far down. But also my dad doesn't like going where
00:09:42
because he needs like the first seat. Right. You know, he needs special circumstances and he's still
00:09:48
not okay with the fact that he needs that. So yeah. Yeah. Asking for help is hard. But if Vince
00:09:53
flew up, took a, you know, $79 Southwest flight and just rang the doorbell, you know, my dad would
00:09:59
lose his mind. Shut up with a six pack and some brats. Oh my God. Barbecuing in the rain.
00:10:07
No, they'll bring it in the house. They'll bring the grill in the house. Right over the,
00:10:10
put sticks on hot dogs and stick it right in the woodbinding stove. Right, it would be fine with that.
00:10:15
I just saw on TikTok, they're all about that man who has been a season ticket holder
00:10:20
for like 66 years. Yeah. Oh. Crazy. I love it. The greatest. They have Taylor Swift.
00:10:27
We have Eminem. Yeah. I mean, apples to oranges, really. And we have, I don't know, who do we have? Mark Zuckerberg? Who did the 49ers get?
00:10:38
I don't know. To show up. What do they have? They've got punk rock, I guess. Should we do Exactly Right Corner and then start
00:10:46
the show now that we've landed on a high note? Oh, real quick, before we get into the Exactly
00:10:50
Right Corner, we want to let you guys know about one of our favorite true crime podcasts in the
00:10:56
world going on tour. That's right. Everybody's favorite true crime podcast, Criminal, hosted by
00:11:01
the legendary Phoebe Judge, is celebrating its 10th anniversary with a new live show. So it features
00:11:07
seven brand new stories, never-before-seen photos and videos, and a behind-the-scenes look at how
00:11:12
criminal is made. So Phoebe and co-creator Lauren Spohr are coming to 13 cities, including Los
00:11:19
Angeles, on February 7th and New York on February 14th. Some people call it Valentine's Day.
00:11:25
Oh, how romantic. So visit thisiscriminal.com slash live for tickets. Tell us how it is. I can't wait to see them live.
00:11:31
I mean, how exciting is that? What a great show. Epic. We'll slide right over into exactly right highlights.
00:11:39
So now that all the strikes are behind us, guests are returning to That's Messed Up and SVU podcast.
00:11:44
So this week, Cara and Lisa are joined by actor Alison Psycho, who plays Elliot Stabler's daughter Kathleen, to discuss Blood, an episode from 2005.
00:11:55
Fun and hilarious comedian best is Michelle Buteau and Jordan Carlos guests on adulting Also email adultingquestions at gmail for the opportunity to have your questions answered
00:12:07
on a future episode. Yeah. If you have any questions, they're talking about what it is
00:12:12
to be an adult over on that podcast. They have a lot of great advice, but then sometimes it's just,
00:12:17
we have basic stuff where it's like, where do I keep my rubber bands? Right. And like,
00:12:22
how do you store batteries without having them catch on fire? That's a, I don't know.
00:12:25
What's the question I want answered? If I'm going to a football party that's serving something as
00:12:31
delicious as twice baked potatoes with buffalo chicken on top, what should I bring? Right. How
00:12:36
do I even up the score there? Definitely. Also comedian Andy Awansio joins Curt and Scotty over
00:12:42
on Bananas to discuss the world's weirdest headlines and go to the website Scotty's
00:12:48
gettingpetting.dog to track Scotty's mission to pet 100 dogs in 2024. That's a person who is
00:12:56
digging it out and making it happen in 2024 with the good vibes. Like that is a great example of resolutions, right?
00:13:05
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Bye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
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The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed,
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scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
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00:15:15
Goodbye. All right, you're first this week, yeah? Is that right? I think so, yeah.
00:15:21
Okay. This was one of those stories where I remember talking about it a while ago,
00:15:27
and then, you know, we're so well-produced these days. We're so far ahead of the game.
00:15:33
And also so well produced that my researcher, Maren, just had a baby. I know. Just had a baby.
00:15:43
And I still have my research and nothing has been, not a trick has been missed. So Maren.
00:15:49
You know what's crazy? Mine too. Oh, that's right. Allie had a baby. Allie had her baby first.
00:15:54
Yes. And Jay, Elias, proud papa, they all had babies and things are still smooth as a fucking.
00:16:02
Unbelievable. At this company, we had four different people have babies in the last like three months.
00:16:08
It's crazy. So Maren McGlashan, my researcher and first time mother, congratulations on your baby.
00:16:15
I'm so excited for you. So anyway, this is one of those stories that I knew and know.
00:16:22
And I'm like, how do I know this? And then as I was reading through it, some of the research is from the great TV show,
00:16:29
A Crime to Remember. Oh, that was such a good show. It's such a good show. So that's how I recognized it. Maybe you will too. So we start in 1955
00:16:39
on the Gold Coast of Long Island, which is an extremely moneyed area. I'm going to start using
00:16:46
that term where New York City's blue blood elite keep palatial second homes and throw parties for
00:16:52
their just as obscenely rich friends and frenemies. Some of the families who own Gold Coast estates
00:16:59
have familiar names like the Vanderbilts, the Astors, the Morgans, the Woolworths. I didn't
00:17:04
realize the Woolworths were like fancy. Oh yeah. Fancy people. Yeah. Department store money.
00:17:10
That's right. All that good popcorn money. But back in the early 20th century, the last name
00:17:15
Woodward held the same kind of renown. The Woodward family made their fortune in banking
00:17:22
and they sat at the tip top of New York high society. And on the night of October 30th, 1955,
00:17:30
35 year old Billy Woodward and his 40 year old wife, Anne, actually were attending a dinner party being thrown
00:17:37
in the honor of their good friends, the Duke and Duchess of Windsor. So that's how high society these people are.
00:17:44
But the Woodward sterling reputation will be forever marred by a dramatic turn of events
00:17:49
at their own Long Island estate that same night A shotgun blast the police on estate grounds and a body lying lifeless in a bedroom doorway This is the story of the murder of Billy Woodward Wow Do I know this one I think it might slowly become clear So the main sources
00:18:07
used for this story today are a book by a writer named Susan Brody called This Crazy Thing Called
00:18:12
Love, an episode of the Investigation Discovery series, A Crime to Remember called Who Killed
00:18:17
Mr. Woodward, and the book Deliberate Cruelty by writer Roseanne Montillo. And the rest are in our
00:18:24
show notes. So we're going to start off with Ann Woodward's life. She's born in 1915 and her name
00:18:33
when she's born is Angeline Crowell. She lives on a farm outside Pittsburgh, Kansas. Did you know
00:18:40
there was a Pittsburgh, Kansas? No, I did not. I did not either. Back in Pittsburgh, everybody knows
00:18:45
her as Angie. After her parents divorce, Angie's raised by her mom, Ethel, who does anything she
00:18:51
can to make ends meet. She starts as a school teacher. Then she operates a taxi company out of
00:18:56
the back of a local movie theater. And she reportedly also runs a speakeasy out of her
00:19:02
own small house during Prohibition. Author Susan Brody points out that, quote, at the age of 15,
00:19:08
Angie worked as a cocktail waitress out of her own home. Wow. Yeah. That's one of my favorite
00:19:14
Midwestern things is going through neighborhoods and then there's a house that's also a bar.
00:19:19
Is that a thing? I know it was back then, but that's a thing still. Well, someone showed me a picture of one in Scranton, Pennsylvania. Also, they have them in Wisconsin.
00:19:27
Oh my gosh, you guys, please comment and tell us about the local literal neighborhood bar in your area.
00:19:34
House bar. Is it still a thing? Like, what's the story? Who runs it? I want to know everything.
00:19:38
Is it truly like a grandma coming out of a kitchen and going and walking behind a small bar in her living room?
00:19:44
Because that's what it was explained to me as. I just think of all the like light up beer signs everywhere and like, right?
00:19:50
Yeah. But it's so charming. Okay. I need to know more about this. Yes. I love it.
00:19:54
Okay. So this family doesn't have much, but Angie has big dreams. She idolizes Joan Crawford because Joan Crawford also spent part of her childhood in Kansas.
00:20:04
But Angie actually, the pictures I've seen of her, she looks more like Lauren Bacall.
00:20:08
She's really a gorgeous woman. And of course she dreams of making it big as a starlet in Hollywood.
00:20:14
And after graduating high school, she gets a sales job at a Kansas City department store where a male executive invites her to model for the store's print ads.
00:20:23
And when she does that, he sends those photos to a friend who runs a modeling agency in New York.
00:20:29
So basically, this is the sign Angie's been looking for. It's like, I knew it. Now somebody else has confirmed it.
00:20:35
Here we go. So against her mother's wishes and without any promise of any work or anything, Angie moves to New York City.
00:20:42
Damn. Yeah. She goes for it. She changes her name to Ann Eden because she thinks it sounds more refined.
00:20:49
And she starts to book some modeling jobs. And then she gets cast in some radio shows and she
00:20:56
gets like big roles in radio shows. And then she starts working as a chorus girl in a high-end
00:21:02
Manhattan club. And there she finds herself rubbing elbows with the rich, the powerful,
00:21:08
and the culturally relevant men of New York City. She's even rumored to have had a brief affair
00:21:14
with Joan Crawford's ex-husband, actor Franchot Tone. Wow. So she's really going after it
00:21:20
exactly the way she pictured it in her head. Yeah. Just that kind of sad thing of like,
00:21:25
this is what I want, therefore I'm going to take your sloppy seconds and make something of it.
00:21:30
Oh, my God. Oh. Oh, men. Oh, the youth. But then Anne makes a much more fateful connection
00:21:37
with an older, very rich married man named William Woodward Sr. William Woodward Sr. first spots Anne
00:21:45
while she's working her chorus girl gig. The two of them begin to have an affair until William,
00:21:51
who is petrified that there'll be a scandal that it'll get found out, he decides to end things,
00:21:57
but he wants to keep Anne close. So he decides that Anne would be good for his 22-year-old son,
00:22:05
Billy. No. Uh-huh. Because Billy's very inexperienced with women, is 22, but reportedly a virgin.
00:22:12
And William Sr. is afraid that that might mean that Billy is a homosexual. So he realizes and
00:22:19
could teach Billy a thing or two about the ways of seduction. And as author Roseanne Montillo puts
00:22:25
it, quote, turn him around. That is so twisted. And it's gross. Gross. There's so many levels.
00:22:33
the onion of grossness. Where do we start unpacking this? Just layers, layers of grossness.
00:22:41
The past was such a different time. Here's the real kicker at the end of this page there.
00:22:47
Anne agrees to this arrangement. So Anne's like, sounds good. She got something out of it, I bet.
00:22:52
I'm sure. And also he's a really old man. So it's not like she was in it for love in the first place.
00:22:58
She was like, yeah, I'm here to play the game. Let's do this thing. So before long, Anne spots Billy at the club that she works at.
00:23:06
She recognizes him from a picture his dad showed her. So after she's done on stage, she goes out into the audience and she meets him and they have a drink together.
00:23:17
Billy is clearly and immediately attracted to Anne. She's five years older than he is.
00:23:22
She has tons of confidence. More importantly, she's completely different than any woman Billy has ever known or the women that he grew up around.
00:23:31
Unlike the stuffy debutantes that he has known his whole life, Anne is sensual and funny and flirtatious and outgoing and all the things you're not supposed to be in high society.
00:23:42
Billy doesn't seem to know about Anne and his father's past. And then the two soon develop a real connection and eventually and probably forbiddenly they fall in love.
00:23:53
Now that's not daddy's original plan. So it's definitely not what Billy's parents have planned
00:24:00
For him, he's their only male heir, right? Yeah. They're the upparest of crusts.
00:24:05
Those are the people that have essentially arranged marriages. Yeah. It's obvious William Sr.'s conflict of interest, creepily obvious, but Billy's mother, Elsie,
00:24:15
she's disapproving of the relationship simply because she's an elitist and a snob and she's
00:24:20
like, no way. To Elsie Woodward, Anne is the kind of woman high society men have a fling with, but do
00:24:26
not marry. Little does she know. Right? she's surrounded in this situation. Someone with Anne's background is simply not up to Elsie's
00:24:35
standards, which are sky high. In a 1955 article in Life Magazine talks about Elsie Woodward's
00:24:41
status in high society saying, quote, she has long reigned as one of the city's most distinguished
00:24:47
hostesses and still reigns as perhaps its most distinguished dowager. So she is a kind of a
00:24:54
legend. And clearly they're not going to be like, and whoever you love, son, bring her on home.
00:25:02
Writer William Norwich says on A Crime to Remember, because you know, on that show,
00:25:05
they do individual interviews with people. He says on this topic, quote, when Elsie saw Ann
00:25:12
Eden come into her court, there was only one reaction that was possible. N-O-C-D. That was
00:25:18
everyone's favorite expression in those days. End quote. And what he's talking about, N-O-C-D,
00:25:24
stands for not our caliber, darling, or not our class, dear. Ouch. It's your worst fear.
00:25:32
Rich people are gossiping about you. And like in fucking, is that an anagram? No. In initials.
00:25:39
Yeah. Ew. It's slang. You're not even worth the whole sentence. No. It's very upstairs,
00:25:45
downstairs. How about G-T-F-Y? Go, no, G-F-Y. Gold Coast forever, bitches. I can't spell.
00:25:56
Here's the thing, though. It's not just Elsie. It's everybody. Like no one is having Anne in
00:26:01
this group of people. Many of New York's upper crust are horrified that a bottle blonde,
00:26:07
a Midwestern girl is trying to infiltrate their ranks. And I mean, that's really
00:26:11
how it's seen, of course. You watch The Gilded Age, right? We've talked about The Gilded Age.
00:26:16
It's like that thing. I don't think we have, but I was thinking the exact same thing.
00:26:20
Yeah. Where it's like even the super rich, if you have new money, then you're not in.
00:26:25
Like it's that crazy and old and it has a lot of rules, I guess. I like talking about it as if I
00:26:31
know anything about it where I'm like, I'm absolutely from the people that come in the
00:26:35
servants entrance and give everybody proud of it typhoid yes for real i'm the typhoid class
00:26:44
and among the naysayers this is kind of fascinating is truman capote no yeah truman author deborah
00:26:53
davis says that around the time ann and billy start dating capote quote was writing breakfast
00:26:59
at Tiffany's, he was invited to everyone's parties. When he saw Anne Woodward, he really saw her as,
00:27:05
in his words, a phony. Ouch. He despised that about people, end quote. Which is, I think,
00:27:12
it's a good lesson to learn as you go through life when there's people have a real problem with other
00:27:17
people like that. It's like, well, what would that be saying about Truman Capote? It's like,
00:27:21
oh yes, if we all remember To Kill a Mockingbird, like Truman Capote is poor. He was raised by his
00:27:28
grandparents. He's from, you know what I mean? He's not a blue blood. He's not the New York elite.
00:27:33
Right. He's an interloper. So he's seeing another interloper going, it's her. Everybody focus on
00:27:39
her. Right. He can't be him. Anyway, despite the open and hostile judgment of the relationship,
00:27:45
Anne and Billy do get married. And at first they actually seem very happy. And then of course,
00:27:52
as we know, the cracks begin to show. And partly it's because Anne is trying to transcend social
00:27:58
classes. So she is forced to pretty much change everything about herself, her appearance, the
00:28:03
clothes she wears, her demeanor. Of course, those Hollywood aspirations like are way gone. And she
00:28:10
has to pretend to like decor and furniture and things that she's probably never cared about or
00:28:15
known about. And as stifling as this transformation sounds, it's something Anne genuinely wants to be
00:28:22
doing. She, it's a fair trade off to her. She comes from so little, she understands and craves
00:28:29
the security and the comfort. And of course the luxury that comes with extreme wealth.
00:28:34
And so she tries desperately to fit in. That's the heartbreaking part where it's just like,
00:28:39
oh yeah, now you're actually going to try to do this thing that is going to make it so it doesn't
00:28:44
work. Or it's going to make it so people who don't like you, like you, where it's like people
00:28:49
who don't deserve your time and energy, you need to force them to like you to fit into your life.
00:28:54
Like what a sad endeavor. Tough. You know? Yeah. Rarely works. And especially I think with people
00:29:00
like this who are truly pretty much a cult at this point, it's so inside. Totally. And then
00:29:06
going against that, Billy selfishly wants her to stay the woman that she was when he met her.
00:29:13
He doesn't want her to become stuck up and prudish like the other elite women of New York society. He wants her to be the person he was when he met her, which was young, hot and always available to him.
00:29:26
So author Deborah Davis says, quote, Billy was an inexperienced youth sexually. He was imagining a never ending honeymoon with his extremely desirable wife who had once taken him places he never imagined going in his sexually repressed world. Once Anne was married, she was more dedicated to being respectable than she was to being a playmate, end quote.
00:29:50
Okay. And what choice does she have? She doesn't get to be all things to all people.
00:29:54
Like you can play the Marilyn Monroe part while you trying to fit into that level of society Totally Look I know I tried it
00:30:05
So by the time Anne's pregnant with the couple's first child, Billy's already having affairs.
00:30:10
So it's that quickly. He eventually becomes less and less secretive about these relationships.
00:30:16
So right in front of Anne's face, he's dancing with other women at balls. He's flirting with them at dinner parties.
00:30:22
He carves time out of his very busy schedule to meet with his mistresses like he just doesn't give a fuck.
00:30:28
And Anne isn't the only high society woman dealing with a cheating husband in this specific era.
00:30:34
Turning the other cheek to a cheating husband is basically a part of the society lifestyle.
00:30:39
Even Elsie Woodward herself, who's an extremely powerful woman in New York, must endure her husband's constant affairs.
00:30:47
So that's just the way it is. So the problem is that Anne isn't passive. She's not reserved. She does not want to accept Billy's disrespect or lack of affection toward her, obviously. But she also doesn't want to lose the security that comes with being Billy Woodward's wife. So she's genuinely worried and scared that she could lose everything if Billy left her for another woman.
00:31:12
And she has real reason to be concerned about Billy divorcing her as his friends and his family encourage him to do just that.
00:31:21
In fact, Truman Capote isn't even the only writer who disapproves of the Woodward's relationship.
00:31:27
Billy's good friend Ian Fleming, creator of James Bond, right, is among the growing number of people who try to convince Billy he could do better than Anne.
00:31:36
Yeah. So Anne is fighting to keep her husband interested. Sometimes she is playing the perfect, doting, constantly available wife.
00:31:44
And other times she openly flaunts her attractiveness and shows him that she can get men herself.
00:31:50
Because why wouldn't you? Then in 1952, it's kind of a nice turn for her. She's in her late 30s.
00:31:57
She's named one of six, quote, great American beauties by Vogue magazine. Wow. Susan Brody points out that, quote, the other five women were all younger than Anne.
00:32:09
and born to great wealth. So she kind of was like, she beat the odds. And is also voted best dressed
00:32:16
woman in sports by Sports Illustrated magazine for the outfits she wears to horse races because
00:32:23
Billy owns racehorses, horse races, racehorses. Yeah. He owns racehorses. So they're at the races
00:32:30
all the time. And she's basically getting press for how she looks at these horse races.
00:32:36
She even sits for a portrait by Salvador Dali, who tells Anne that her beauty, quote, makes his mustache vibrate.
00:32:45
Gross. All right, pervert. Also, you know, what's funny is that portrait looks like if I tried to like Photoshop what I thought a Salvador Dali portrait of like a 1955 socialite would look like.
00:32:59
Yeah. It's the weirdest thing. It's like a really bizarre background where like there should be melting clocks, but it's just a lady standing there in a dress.
00:33:07
So meanwhile, the Woodward's marriage is becoming increasingly toxic. The couple is starting to have blowout fights in public.
00:33:14
One particularly violent scene playing out after Anne finds a lipstick stained handkerchief in her husband's pocket.
00:33:22
According to a 1955 Time magazine article, Anne scratched Billy's face, quote, until it bled.
00:33:29
it's just making me think of because it's like 1955 so it's like a little bit earlier than mad
00:33:36
men where it's just like oh men could do whatever the fuck they wanted all the time this guy was
00:33:41
super rich yeah and he could just do whatever he wanted so like what would he fucking care
00:33:48
it's just just insane the two are so overcome with obsessive jealousy that they each hire
00:33:55
private investigators to follow the other. So they're like that bad. And as it does in the cycle
00:34:01
of abuse and in Billy's more explosive episodes are followed by a short-lived honeymoon phase,
00:34:06
then that period ends and then the cycle repeats itself again. So as this relationship becomes more
00:34:13
and more volatile, they actually even have separation agreements drafted, but neither of
00:34:18
them will ever actually sign. So it's like a lot of threats and a lot of noise. But then at the end
00:34:24
of the day, it seems like they both don't want to get divorced. So now I'm going to take you back
00:34:31
to the night of October 30th, 1955, which was the night they were at the dinner party for the Duke
00:34:37
and Duchess of Windsor. And they come home. Nobody really knows what happened after that.
00:34:44
Basically, the story picks up when the police arrive at the scene and they find Billy Woodward
00:34:50
dead in his bedroom doorway. Anne is sobbing hysterically and holding her husband's dead
00:34:56
naked body in her arms. When she's questioned, she insists that this is what happened,
00:35:02
that around 2 a.m. she heard her toy poodle bark. The poodle's name's sloppy, but we can't get into
00:35:10
that right now. Okay. All right. I'm going to let that go. We have to, because we have to keep going.
00:35:15
Anne claims she saw when the dog barked, she saw the outline of a man walk past her window, followed by a noise that convinced her someone was breaking into the house.
00:35:25
Anne and Billy sleep in separate bedrooms off of the same hallway. They're about 20 feet from each other.
00:35:31
So Anne tells investigators that after hearing those noises, she gets out of bed and she grabs a shotgun that she had in her room nearby.
00:35:38
She takes it out in the hall and in the dark, she sees a man appear in the front of Billy's door.
00:35:44
So she fires twice and only afterwards does she realize she hadn't shot an intruder.
00:35:50
She shot her husband Now unlike most people who have just shot and killed someone Anne is not subjected to intense questioning She is certainly not taken down to the police station Instead she quietly whisked away to a luxurious Manhattan hospital suite
00:36:05
to compose herself in private. So as investigators dive deep into this case, it slowly becomes clear what happened.
00:36:14
Billy was definitely shot to death by Anne. There's no one arguing that. But they don't know if it was a real accident
00:36:21
or if it was a murder stage to look like an accident. Anne, of course, is adamant that she thought Billy was an intruder.
00:36:28
And this isn't some wild paranoia of hers or like a random lie. There had been incidents of a so-called prowler in the months leading up to Billy's death.
00:36:37
Several wealthy residents of this specific part of Long Island had had their homes broken into.
00:36:42
According to Susan Brody, the prowler had been, quote, sleeping in their pool cabanas and taking items from their kitchens, gun closets, bedrooms and pool houses, end quote.
00:36:54
The Prowler had stolen food and jewelry and other odds and ends and often left messes behind signaling to the homeowners that he'd come right in under their noses.
00:37:04
The Prowler became something like a boogeyman spreading fear and anxiety throughout Long Island's Gold Coast elite.
00:37:11
Investigators speak with all of the 58 party guests that mingled with the Woodwards on the night that Billy was killed.
00:37:18
And they suggest that nothing out of the ordinary happened between the couple at the dinner party.
00:37:22
However, those guests did confirm there was a ton of discussion about the prowler that night.
00:37:28
It seemed to be the absolute top of the Woodward's minds. Anne and Billy had just found discarded food scraps and shotgun shells all around their property.
00:37:37
And it made them worry that the prowler was interested in their home in particular and that he'd somehow gotten his hands on one of their firearms.
00:37:46
So Anne would later tell the DA that she and Billy agreed to, quote, arm ourselves and be prepared for the prowler, end quote.
00:37:54
And that's why Anne had her shotgun just sitting by the bed. So when I first read that, I was just like, oh, yeah, because you just keep a gun in the corner.
00:38:03
Not usually common, I would say, on the Gold Coast. But both Woodwards were actively prepared to engage in a standoff with an armed intruder.
00:38:12
That's like what they were thinking about. Of course, firing a shotgun in a dark house, even if there is a home invasion taking place, is extremely dangerous.
00:38:22
The room for error is huge. And the Woodward's young children were also in the house.
00:38:27
So it seems totally insane. But Anne's doctor would later note how irrational the couple had become about this.
00:38:34
He says, quote, end quote. I could see that. I know. Now that people are actually like talking it through.
00:39:08
Yeah. So given his social prominence, the death of Billy Woodward is a very big deal.
00:39:13
But for nearly a month afterward, the Woodward family headed by the now widowed Elsie is completely silent on it because Elsie does not want there to be uncontrolled media attention, rumors or society page gossip about her son's death.
00:39:29
And Elsie's efforts to control the situation are sometimes drastic. She actually tells Anne that her two young sons will be shipped off to a European boarding school because, according to Debra Davis, quote, Elsie did not want her grandchildren to have a mother who murdered their father.
00:39:45
That would have been the ultimate scandal, end quote, which is true. Can't argue it.
00:39:51
Anne herself does not appear in public or give any statements about the shooting.
00:39:55
It's unclear if this is by choice or if she's encouraged to do so by her mother-in-law.
00:39:59
Either way, Anne doesn't attend Billy's funeral. Instead, Time Magazine reports that she sends a floral arrangement to the service,
00:40:07
and it includes a ribbon that says, quote, from Dunk to Monk, which were their nicknames for each other.
00:40:13
Hmm. Interesting. But as much as the Woodwards would like to control the narrative around Billy's death,
00:40:19
the story inevitably breaks when Ann is called to testify before a Nassau County grand jury,
00:40:25
and all the details about the night of her husband's death are dragged out in the open.
00:40:28
at the hearing Anne is described by the New York Times as looking quote haggard and in anguish
00:40:34
end quote and she tells the same story that she first told investigators she thought someone
00:40:40
had broken into her house she confused her husband with what she believed was the prowler
00:40:44
and she pulled the trigger despite all the violent and volatile history in the Woodward's
00:40:48
relationship the grand jury ultimately clears Anne of any wrongdoing yeah you kind of have to
00:40:55
right I guess yeah I mean if there's no evidence and they were talking about it obsessively that night.
00:41:00
It's like the very people who would judge her and be probably the cruelest or the coldest to her
00:41:06
are the ones going, no, this really was a thing. This was an issue. And she could have used it as an excuse and killed him,
00:41:11
but there's no way to prove that. There's no way to prove it. My only thing that's still a dangling,
00:41:16
sorry to say a dangling Chad. Why would I say a dangling Chad this far? Because of the dog's name.
00:41:22
The dog name just fucking cast a shadow over this story. I want to talk about sloppy for 20 minutes.
00:41:31
And I was like, that's right when I'm explaining what the fuck is happening. I can't, I can't do it.
00:41:36
I can't. You had a time. There was a time earlier, but it's passed. If somebody is looking for a pet name, they want to name their dog or cat sloppy.
00:41:44
Yeah. Why not? Such a good name. Well, well, but here's my dangling chat. As I was saying, two shots, not one.
00:41:53
Didn pull the trigger and then go holy shit Did it twice Now who knows But she thought it was him until she turned the lights on She thought it was him but that you would have to be so sure I don know And she thought he had one of their guns too
00:42:06
She thought he was armed. True. If it's real. I'm just playing devil's up. Yeah, yeah.
00:42:09
And also, like, she's probably so freaked out. When's the last time she's held a gun?
00:42:13
I will say my thing would be that if I were really scared someone were prowling,
00:42:19
if there was a thing going on, I would insist on sleeping in the same bed as my spouse that night.
00:42:25
Yeah. That's my only thing is I wouldn't want to be alone. Right. That's a little bit of suspicion to me.
00:42:31
Maybe he fucking snored to high heaven and she's like, well, I can either sleep afraid or not sleep.
00:42:36
Right. And like they're fighting that bad that there's this thing happening that they're all keyed up
00:42:41
about and yet they're not solving it, which is kind of like a good metaphor for their relationship
00:42:47
where it's like, what are you guys doing? Just solve it. What's happening here? Yeah.
00:42:52
Also just one of those kinds of things that's like reversal of fortune even where who will ever know?
00:42:56
Like it's just a true mystery. You can't know. That's where deathbed confessions come in.
00:43:01
Well, actually that's where this comes in, which is really compelling. So Billy's death is chalked up to a tragic accident
00:43:09
and Anne is ultimately vindicated when the prowler is finally caught. is a German immigrant named Paul Wirthes.
00:43:21
He lives on the streets, and he is finally arrested for all these break-ins all around Long Island.
00:43:28
He will eventually admit that he was, in fact, at Billy and Anne's house on the night of October 30th.
00:43:34
Holy shit, so he really was a prowlin'. Yep, he was the prowler, and he was a prowlin' at their house.
00:43:40
He says that he climbed a tree onto their second-floor terrace before entering the house through an open window.
00:43:46
He admits that he made a loud noise as he stumbled into the house and then he heard a gunshot.
00:43:53
So because he heard a gunshot, he got scared. He climbed back out onto the roof.
00:43:56
He jumped off the terrace and he ran away. Oh, so she's totally telling the truth.
00:44:01
Yes. Wow. Okay. So even though Anne has already been exonerated by the grand jury and by Paul Worth's admission,
00:44:09
that should arguably exonerate her in the court of public opinion. As writer Mark Meredith puts it, quote,
00:44:15
quote, Ann's detractors, and there were many, mainly due to her less than blue blood,
00:44:20
were happy to let the rumor mills roll to the tune that she had murdered Billy and that she was dropped like a hot rock from the society she was so eager to be a part of,
00:44:30
end quote. So they didn't care that the real guy got caught and was like, yeah, that's literally exactly what happened. Rumors swirled that a jealous Ann had killed her husband
00:44:41
in cold blood and that Elsie had pulled some strings to get Paul Wirth's into the picture.
00:44:47
By this logic, Elsie needed someone to supply the perfect explanation that would prevent
00:44:52
Anne from becoming a convicted murderer, which would sully the Woodward name forever.
00:44:58
So that's the rumor, but there's absolutely no proof to the rumors. In fact, the proof is going
00:45:03
the other way that they found the guy and the guy was like, yeah, that's exactly what happened.
00:45:07
Yeah, yeah. But what happened in the Woodward house on October 30th, it was almost certainly an awful accident.
00:45:15
But it doesn't stop people from piling on Anne and nobody more notoriously than Truman Capote.
00:45:21
It is unclear why there's so much bad blood between Anne and Truman Capote. Roseanne Matillo theorizes that it has something to do with how similar they are.
00:45:30
That's sorry. That's what I said before. But this is Roseanne Matillo's theory. Yeah.
00:45:34
She writes, quote, both had overcome hardscrabble, unsteady, fraught childhoods.
00:45:40
Both had cajoled, clawed and charmed their way into the elite circles that they sought to enter.
00:45:46
Both were vulnerable and mean. Wow. Whatever the case may be, they didn't get along.
00:45:54
Capote would eventually claim that he had once approached Anne in a restaurant, notably long after he'd already decided that she was a phony.
00:46:02
and claims that Anne called him a gay slur. Could have very well happened, although that's nothing Anne ever admits to.
00:46:11
So in return, Capote starts referring to Anne by a nickname that actually ends up catching on,
00:46:17
Mrs. Bang Bang. Oh. Rough. So then in the mid-1970s, Capote's working on a novel
00:46:24
that includes an incredibly unforgiving chapter on Anne Woodward that's thinly disguised as fiction.
00:46:30
um deborah and this is something truman capote was known for and he would like make friends and
00:46:35
then like turn on people and then to write incredibly shitty stuff about them and everyone
00:46:40
would know that's who he was writing about like he did it to a bunch of people deborah davis who
00:46:46
puts it very bluntly says the capote quote depicted and the way he saw her as a gold digging whore
00:46:53
End quote. Damn. Yeah. God forbid as a woman, you try to do the things that men are doing.
00:46:59
So 1975, this specific chapter is set to run in Esquire magazine and someone sends Anne an
00:47:05
advanced copy. When she reads it, she's devastated. There's a line that literally says, quote,
00:47:11
once a tramp, always a tramp. End quote. Then in what any reader would immediately assume
00:47:17
is about Billy's death, Capote writes, quote, of course it wasn't an accident. She's a murderess.
00:47:23
end quote. So Anne learns the exact date that Esquire is going to publish this chapter,
00:47:28
which is on October 25th. She makes a note in her diary. Alongside her scribbling,
00:47:34
she writes, quote, I must be far away. And on the morning of October 9th, 1975, 57-year-old Anne Woodward is found unresponsive in the bedroom of her Fifth Avenue apartment
00:47:45
after having taken a cyanide pill. Holy shit. Mm-hmm. It's reported that just a week later, Truman Capote calls up one of Ann's friends
00:47:54
not to express condolences or regret. He wants to dig up dirt and learn more about the circumstances of her death. But when he asks this friend about Anne,
00:48:05
she simply says, quote, she was a sad person. Elsie, who is 93 years old at this time,
00:48:13
so Elsie's still around, shows the same level of compassion that Truman Capote showed after
00:48:19
Anne's death. She will say, quote, well, that's that. She shot my son and Truman just murdered her.
00:48:26
And so now I suppose we don't have to worry about that anymore. Your grandchildren are going to read what you've said about their mother.
00:48:33
Yeah. And they're not going to be very fucking stoked about that. It's so shitty.
00:48:37
It's so awful. But it also feels to me like that's a coping mechanism of a woman who has absolutely no idea how to deal with or process grief or tragedy or her own feelings or place in that.
00:48:53
Or doesn't understand empathy for people who aren't exactly like her in some way.
00:48:58
Or has never felt empathy from other people while her husband cheats on her with the same
00:49:04
girl that he sets up their son with. I wonder when they found out about that. I mean, could you imagine?
00:49:09
No. The answer is just no. Just no. And I don't want to talk about it anymore. Summarizing Anne's rise and fall, Debra Davis says, quote, Anne wanted to be famous, to
00:49:19
be rich, to be in high society. She got all of that. Her prayers were answered and it was her absolute undoing. She was destroyed by that.
00:49:29
At her bedside, Anne kept a notepad with the letterhead that read, quote, don't forget.
00:49:35
And underneath, she had written two words, Anne Woodward. And that is the story of the shooting death of Billy Woodward.
00:49:43
Wow. What a just full on tragedy. And it seems like we're talking about 1900, but it was literally 1955.
00:49:52
Yeah, it does. So those parties, a lot of quaaludes. Wow. Great job. So fucked up.
00:50:01
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Goodbye. I'm going to tell you a story. I could introduce it in one of two ways.
00:52:11
On one hand, it's a naval wartime tragedy that took place just 34 days before the end of World War II.
00:52:19
Okay, fine. However, the other way I could explain it is that I'm about to tell you the story of the deadliest shark attack in U.S. history.
00:52:28
Oh, oh, I think I know what this is. It sure is. This is the story of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis and the U.S. Navy's botched response.
00:52:38
Oh, you're grabbing your cheeks and shaking your head. If you know the movie Jaws.
00:52:42
Yeah. The speech from Jaws. This is what it's about. Oh, my God. Good one. Good one.
00:52:49
Thank you. I'll tell you, the story comes from the speech given by Quint in Jaws.
00:52:54
His character tells a harrowing tale about an enemy's missile, leaving him and hundreds of others shipwrecked,
00:53:00
stranded at sea and clinging for dear life in a days long shark feeding frenzy. And that's why he hates sharks so much.
00:53:08
Yeah. And that's understandable. That's giving your character motivation and subtext.
00:53:14
There you go. Look at you. Writer's glass from Karen. Look. The main sources used in today's story include an article from the Washington Post titled,
00:53:24
How Did a World War II Japanese Subcommander Help Exonerate a U.S. Navy Captain?
00:53:28
by Daryl Austin and an e-book available on the Naval History and Heritage Command website
00:53:34
written by Richard Hulver and edited by Peter C. Luebke. And the other sources can be found in our show notes.
00:53:40
Black eyes, like a doll's eyes. You should read it and do it right now. Perform it.
00:53:46
As a monologue? Yeah, everyone go watch Jaws after this. So there's some background. It's all, you know, naval stuff.
00:53:53
Background stuff. Yeah Launched on November 7th 1931 and commissioned on November 15th 1932 The USS Indianapolis is one of just two U naval Portland class heavy cruisers which
00:54:06
are large warships designed to travel long distances at high speed. After the Japanese, of course, attack Pearl Harbor on December 7th, 1941, the USS Indianapolis
00:54:16
joins the war effort. She contributes to multiple campaigns over the course of the next four years, including
00:54:21
protecting U.S. aircraft carriers near New Guinea in March 1942, sinking an enemy ship belonging to
00:54:28
Japan in January 1943, and serving as the flagship for Admiral Spurance during the Battle of Okinawa
00:54:35
in 1945. But the USS Indianapolis' most consequential contribution to World War II
00:54:41
would come on July 26, 1945, so towards the end of the war, in the form of a top-secret mission,
00:54:48
the overseas delivery of the core components of Little Boy, which is the atomic bomb headed for
00:54:56
Hiroshima. Let's start with the days leading up to this delivery. After sustaining a kamikaze hit
00:55:02
near Okinawa on March 31st, 1945, the USS Indianapolis lands at the Navy Yard on Mare Island
00:55:09
in Vallejo, California. What are the fucking chances? That's crazy. It is weird. Didn't the
00:55:15
Golden State Killer hit there too. In Vallejo, the Zodiac definitely did. Right. That's what I'm
00:55:20
thinking of. Yeah. So the ship's captain, Captain Charles B. McVeigh III and his crew of 1,195 sailors
00:55:28
remain in the Bay Area through mid-July 1945, getting the ship repaired. So a Pennsylvania
00:55:36
native from a Navy legacy family, McVeigh graduated from the United States Naval Academy
00:55:40
in Annapolis, Maryland in 1920. He worked in Washington, D.C., serving as the chairman of the
00:55:47
Joint Intelligence Committee of the Combined Chiefs of Staff, which is the highest military
00:55:52
intelligent unit making all wartime policy decisions during World War II, before taking
00:55:57
command of the Indianapolis in November 1944. So high up, high ranking, smart dude knows what he's
00:56:03
talking about. He got a silver star working for the Indianapolis. It's the third highest military
00:56:09
award for bravery. So like, this guy's not fucking around. On July 12, 1945, while in the Bay Area,
00:56:16
waiting for the Indianapolis to be fixed, Captain McVeigh gets word that the Indianapolis is to be
00:56:20
used for this top secret mission once it's fully repaired. The mission is so secret that not even
00:56:26
Captain McVeigh knows what it is. Like they don't even tell the captain of the ship. All he knows is
00:56:31
that he's going to be given some materials that are to be delivered to Tinian, one of the northern
00:56:37
Mariana Islands, just north of Guam. So at 12 noon on July 15th, 1945, the USS Indianapolis
00:56:44
receives these materials at Hunter Point and the ship sets sail the next day on July 16th, 1945,
00:56:52
completely unaware that the cargo on board is the makings of an atomic bomb. Wow.
00:56:56
Feels like you just got to give someone a heads up, right? It makes sense that they wouldn't. I guess it's like if it's all in separate pieces that
00:57:03
can't be combined to, who knows. Explode. I'll make sure. That makes sense. So they reach their destination on the morning of Thursday, July 26th, and successfully deliver
00:57:14
the cargo. They make a short trip south to Guam, arriving the next day, and they refuel and stock up
00:57:21
on ammunition and other supplies. So then on the morning of Saturday, July 28th, 1945, the USS Indianapolis makes a straight
00:57:30
shot west to Leyte, which is a provenance in the Philippines, the journey should take them
00:57:35
three days. So they're projected to arrive on July 31st, 1945. So everything's gone smoothly
00:57:42
up until this point. But it turns out as the vessel makes its trek to Leyte, a looming threat
00:57:49
lurks below the waters, watching them, a Japanese submarine I-58. So in the middle of the night on
00:57:57
July 29th, 1945, the sonar man aboard the submarine is patrolling the Philippine Sea.
00:58:05
When he picks up on a strange sound coming from about six miles away, he hears the rattling of
00:58:11
dishes and realizes it's from a ship galley. So in the submarine, they realize there's a ship
00:58:17
because of the rattling of dishes. How creepy is that? That's not good. Not good. No. So he flags
00:58:25
this sound for the submarine's commander, which is Commander Mokitsura Hashimoto. The commander
00:58:32
orders his crew to stalk the vessel, and once they get close enough, they identify it as an enemy ship.
00:58:39
Moments later, at 12.04 a.m. on July 30th, 1945, the commander orders his crew to fire six torpedoes
00:58:47
at the USS Indianapolis. Just two of the torpedoes hit their mark, but it's more than enough to do
00:58:53
serious damage. On board the Indianapolis, 20-year-old U.S. Navy Corporal Edgar Harrell
00:58:58
had just gone to bed when he felt the blow of the missiles. The strikes landed in the middle of the
00:59:03
vessel near the ship's fuel tank, causing an explosion that kills all the power. He's unable
00:59:10
to see much in the darkness, but he can hear the water seeping in and feel it rising beneath his
00:59:14
feet. As Corporal Harrell later recalls, quote, the first hundred yards of the ship was under.
00:59:20
We knew the ship was doomed. We knew that our ship was going to leave us. And it's going to take us with it unless we get off. So like immediate evacuation.
00:59:29
Captain McVeigh, meanwhile, is trying to assess the damage, but the ship's rapidly sinking and the damage communication systems are also not working.
00:59:38
So he can't really tell what's going on. So he has his men try and send out distress signals, but ultimately it's of no use.
00:59:44
It's at this point that Captain McVeigh orders his crew to abandon ship, staying on board himself
00:59:49
until the last possible moment to make sure as many people as possible are evacuated.
00:59:55
In just 15 minutes the massive heavy cruiser is completely swallowed up by the sea And it takes roughly 300 men with it So that leaves the remaining 895 sailors adrift in the water
01:00:10
The survivors hang on to anything and everything at their disposal. Life vests, there's some rafts, and there's also debris that they use to stay afloat.
01:00:18
Ordinarily, the Navy tracks the position of all vessels at sea so they can react in times of distress.
01:00:23
But because the USS Indianapolis was conducting top secret work, the vessel wasn't tracked.
01:00:29
And they also hadn't been granted an escort, which McVeigh had asked for. Because they didn't want to like draw attention to the fact like this is an important vessel by giving them an escort.
01:00:40
So basically, this means that no one's coming to their rescue. So the 895 stranded sailors drift apart in two large groups.
01:00:49
The first group, which includes Captain McVeigh, is situated northeast of the wreck, just outside the grasp of a strong current.
01:00:56
And they luckily have rafts to save them from having to tread water and being submerged, but they're still left with very little food and clean water.
01:01:03
The second group is carried southwest by the current, about seven to 10 miles away from Captain McVeigh's group, and they're protected by nothing but their life vests.
01:01:15
So they're not even on rafts or anything like that, which is like, God, the cold ass water, like open sea.
01:01:22
Oh, my God. Leave me alone. So these life vests, unfortunately, are only meant to stay inflated for up to 64 hours.
01:01:29
That's like they're not supposed to be fucking carting you around. They're not long term.
01:01:34
Yeah. It's emergency only. Yeah. So with no one on the way to save them, it's just a matter of time before the vests give way.
01:01:40
Some of the sailors don't even make it past the first day. either succumbing to injuries they sustain in the wreck or losing their minds to the brutal
01:01:48
conditions of bombing at sea. But you don't think about that being like a mind fuck too, right?
01:01:54
Yeah. Some men pass away and slip out of their vests into the water below. Like they take them
01:02:01
off on purpose. They're like, I'm not doing this anymore. Other survivors claim those vests to keep
01:02:06
themselves afloat too. Like they're just looking for anything to keep them alive. Yes, of course.
01:02:11
When night falls that first day, July 30th, a small group of three or four men swim away in
01:02:16
search of food, water, or help. And they returned by morning saying that Indianapolis didn't actually
01:02:22
go down and that they spent the night aboard the ship drinking fresh milk, tomato juice, and water.
01:02:28
And so stunned and full of hope, another group swim off in search of the ship. Like, oh my God,
01:02:33
we're saved. But it turns out the first men had just experienced an awful hallucination.
01:02:38
No, like a group hallucination. Yeah. Like that's how... Bad. There'd only been a day.
01:02:45
That's how your mind, you know, with thirst alone is like, you know, maddening. Yeah, that's wild.
01:02:53
So those men who swim off in search of the actually sunken ship, they die of starvation
01:02:59
and exhaustion. They're never seen again. Yeah. With every passing moment, the air pressure in the vest decreases.
01:03:05
if a sailor in a vest isn't actively swimming to help keep himself afloat, he could doze off
01:03:10
his head falling forward and putting himself at risk for drowning. In order to fend off exhaustion,
01:03:16
the men have to take turns sleeping, keeping watch over each other to keep each other alive.
01:03:20
Can I just say I'm slightly like winded and sore from sitting on a couch for an hour?
01:03:27
Yeah. Just thinking of that where it's like, you know, it's fun times when you're like
01:03:32
treading water in the pool or whatever, but for a day in like salt water and in like scary,
01:03:39
huge waves or whatever the hell's going on. No food, no water. You're injured. Treading water is hard. Like that shit we all know, right? It's like,
01:03:48
people train to do water polo for fucking months and months to be able to tread waters a little bit.
01:03:54
Yeah. But you never have to play a game of water polo after you've survived an explosion.
01:03:58
Like you didn't, no one gets exploded into the water polo pool. That's the craziest part.
01:04:04
Yeah. You'd protein loaded earlier in the day. God damn. Yeah. It's so awful. So as sailors work to fight starvation and exhaustion, just through sheer power of will,
01:04:15
another danger approaches. Your worst fucking nightmare. Suddenly the men spot dorsal fins emerging from the water's surface and encircling the
01:04:25
group. That's right. sharks. Like what the fuck? Can you? And also like the protocol has fallen apart. So all of the
01:04:34
things that all of these men are trained to do, that they know to do their strengths, all the
01:04:38
ways that they are strong, which is like this unified thing, they're just now put into like a
01:04:44
scenario that is never, you know, it's like, yeah, you don't learn that a basic training,
01:04:50
like what to do when you're circled by fucking predators in the water and trapped and no one's
01:04:56
coming to help you. Just a nightmare. Sharks. Like this story is bad enough, but I think the
01:05:00
sharks are like the, what make it so epically insane. So Corporal Harrell later recalls,
01:05:10
quote, you look, the life jacket goes under, unquote. So like basically you're watching a guy
01:05:15
and the person just gets fucking pulled under just like that. Bloodied remains of his fellow
01:05:20
sailors would then bob to the surface, the sharks picking men off each time they come around.
01:05:27
Every now and again, blood-curdling screams echo from the distance another sailor overcome by
01:05:32
delirium, starvation, or shark attack. Three days pass before Corporal Harrell and his group come
01:05:39
across a crate of rotten potatoes. It's the first food they've seen since the wreck. They remove the
01:05:45
rotten parts the best they can and share whatever's left. It isn't much, but it keeps them going in
01:05:50
the midst of this seemingly never horror Finally four days later four fucking 24 periods at about 10 a on August 2nd 1945 24 U pilot Lieutenant Wilbur Chuck Gwynn is flying over the area
01:06:10
conducting a search and reconnaissance mission when he spots something in the water that isn't the enemy ships he's been looking for.
01:06:17
So he wasn't even looking for them or the ship, but rather fellow U.S. military personnel floating in several groups across a roughly 200-mile span of ocean.
01:06:27
So he's not even, he just comes across. A disaster. Yeah. A gigantic disaster. Lieutenant Gwynne radios the base saying, quote, many men in the water and asking for backup.
01:06:38
as he's unable to fly his aircraft low enough for rescue. His base sends a second pilot, Lieutenant Adrian Marks,
01:06:45
who flags the incident for another nearby ship, the USS Cecil Doyle, roping them into the rescue mission as well.
01:06:51
So fucking finally. Arriving on the scene first, Lieutenant Marks is able to lift 56 men to safety.
01:06:58
Hours later, the USS Cecil Doyle shows up and finishes the job. It takes a full 24 hours
01:07:03
to pull the remaining survivors out of the water. but they managed to do it. And when all is said and done, originally the crew had been 1,195 men.
01:07:14
That's how big the crew was. The amount of people left who get pulled out of the water and are still
01:07:19
alive, 316. That's a lot. So while alive, the survivors are in rough shape. Their tongues are
01:07:27
swollen from dehydration and saltwater poisoning. Some require surgery and heavy antibiotic doses
01:07:33
to avoid having their shark bites and other wounds infected. Their bodies are so spent from treading water,
01:07:39
they can barely sit up on their own, let alone stand. Many men have lost anywhere from 20 to 25 pounds
01:07:46
in a matter of three and a half to four days. That's how arduous it was. I'm sorry, I just realized when you said that
01:07:52
about the antibiotics, that there were men who were attacked by the sharks and not killed, right?
01:07:59
Yeah. Just bitten and terrorized, but not killed. That's, oh my God, I didn't even think of that.
01:08:05
I know. Unfortunately, the Navy, okay, so this gets fucked up, fucked upper. Unfortunately, the Navy made mistakes at every turn that proved fatal for the crew of the USS Indianapolis.
01:08:16
In addition to denying Captain McVeigh the escort through to enemy waters that he requested,
01:08:21
Navy leadership also denies ever receiving a distress signal from the Indianapolis,
01:08:26
despite reports from individual servicemen saying that they did. While the ship wasn't being formally tracked, Navy leadership did know that the Indianapolis was scheduled to arrive in Leyte on July 31st.
01:08:38
They knew it was starting here and going here on this day. The day had come and passed and nobody searched.
01:08:44
No questions were asked. The ship just wasn't there. Moving on. Perhaps the biggest blow of all, though, is that the Navy knew through a top secret code breaking program that there were enemy submarines positioned along the Indianapolis's route.
01:08:59
And that knowledge never appeared on the intelligence report that Captain McVeigh received on board.
01:09:05
So the war finally ends, and with it, the American victory. The Navy officials want to do anything they can to protect the U.S. military's image,
01:09:14
so they cover their tracks and find themselves a scapegoat for the tragedy of the Indianapolis.
01:09:20
And that scapegoat is Captain McVeigh. Shortly after his rescue, Captain Charles McVeigh is court-martialed on two counts,
01:09:29
failing to order his men to abandon ship and hazarding the ship or basically carelessly putting
01:09:33
the ship in harm's way. He's court-martialed for those two things. The first charge doesn't stick
01:09:38
because the Indianapolis went down so quickly. And the only accounts from other sailors is that
01:09:43
Captain McVeigh did everything possible to get his men off the ship. So that doesn't stick.
01:09:47
The second charge, however, is hammered in by prosecutors. They argue that Captain McVeigh
01:09:52
was ordered to steer his ship in basically in zigzags. You know how they tell you to run from
01:09:57
a person with a gun and zigzags. They're like, well, we told you to do that with the ship in
01:10:02
order to avoid enemy fire. And you didn't do it. And so you put your entire crew at jeopardy.
01:10:08
That's what they tell him. And to prove their point, the prosecutors have a very shocking
01:10:14
surprise witness, Commander Mokitsura Hashimoto, the fucking captain of the submarine who took down
01:10:22
the Indianapolis they call as a witness. In his testimony, Commander Hashimoto confirms the
01:10:28
prosecution's argument. Captain McVeigh had not been zigzagging. But in another surprising twist,
01:10:34
Commander Hashimoto undercuts the prosecution's entire argument by stating that the zigzagging
01:10:39
actually wouldn't have made a fucking difference to him at all. The ship was entirely defenseless,
01:10:44
and as such, a change of its sailing pattern wouldn't have changed the way Hashimoto fired
01:10:49
the missiles and it wouldn't have helped the ship avoid the fire. So kind of miraculously,
01:10:54
this once enemy comes forward and is like, this is kind of bullshit, you know? I wonder like if it was part of the treaty or whatever, where you have to come and do this
01:11:03
thing and get us out of this or whatever. And he was like, I have no choice in this,
01:11:07
but I'm also not going to lie or pretend that that because when you said that, and it's like,
01:11:12
how the hell would I know? But that idea, it's like, it's a submarine firing up. So like that
01:11:19
idea of zigzagging, it's not firing from below. It's like it can perfectly laser in on exactly
01:11:26
what you're doing. Plus ships move so slowly. Why would that matter? You just, to me, it seems like
01:11:31
a bunch of bullshit. It's yeah, totally. Yeah. So in his own testimony, Captain McVeigh also owns
01:11:36
up to the fact that he did not zigzag, but said he wasn't definitively instructed to do so. And
01:11:42
by his own account, he was told to zigzag at his discretion, weather permitting. The real crime,
01:11:47
the defense argues, was the Navy's failure to alert Captain McVeigh about the fucking actual
01:11:52
presence of enemy submarines on his route. Even still, Captain McVeigh is found guilty of hazarding
01:11:58
his ship. Up to this point, he is the only captain in the history of the U.S. Navy to be court-martialed for the sinking of a ship during wartime.
01:12:07
The conviction doesn't come with any jail time, but it does drastically reduce his rank, destroy his reputation, and ruin his lauded military career by that point.
01:12:18
In 1949, Captain McVeigh retires from military service without his reputation making a recovery.
01:12:24
The surviving members of his crew find it completely unfair that McVeigh has been forced to shoulder the blame for the sinking of the Indianapolis.
01:12:31
Many allowed him as a hero for doing what he could to save the crew. But many others take his conviction at face value and hold him responsible for the loss of their loved ones.
01:12:41
For years, letters pour into McVeigh's mailbox from family members of the fallen crew members, shaming him for failing to protect their sons.
01:12:51
One letter in particular reads, Merry Christmas. Our family's holiday would be a lot merrier if you hadn't killed my son.
01:12:59
So not great. In 1960, a surviving crew member named Giles McCoy approaches McVeigh about
01:13:06
petitioning the Navy to reverse his conviction. McVeigh doubts it'll work. He wants him to drop
01:13:11
it. But four years later, in 1964, he changes his mind and he gives McCoy his blessing to pursue an
01:13:16
overturn. But as the years go by, McCoy's and other survivors' efforts prove fruitless. The
01:13:23
guilt becomes too much for McVeigh to bear. And on November 6th, 1968, at the age of 70,
01:13:30
Captain Charles Butler McVeigh III takes his own life. It isn't until 28 years after Captain
01:13:38
McVeigh's death, so now we're in 1996, that the calls to overturn his conviction gain some traction.
01:13:43
A sixth grader named Hunter Scott from Pensacola, Florida, chooses to research the USS Indianapolis' sinking as a part of a school project.
01:13:54
Like, where are you now? That is incredible, right? For real. Yeah. This sixth grader conducts 150 survivor interviews and reviews as many as 800 documents pertaining to the incident.
01:14:07
Wait, he conducts the interviews? Yeah, the sixth grader. I'm sorry. So the horrifying stories of men sitting there waiting to be eaten by sharks.
01:14:17
Yeah. That you're telling that story to a sixth grade boy. I guess so. Or maybe it was just all about the captain, but Jesus Christ.
01:14:26
Like I just saying even if there was a chance of some of those stories trickling in where it like oh my God He had to be a mature precocious kid right And I would think that he would have a grandfather in the military who understood the importance and the tradition and all the different
01:14:43
things. And no doubt a really great teacher because, you know, that needs help too. So
01:14:48
incredible, right? So Hunter School Projects helps raise enough awareness to earn Congress's
01:14:53
attention. In a joint effort of the surviving crew members and Captain McVeigh's sons named
01:14:59
Kimo and Charles and Senator Robert Smith of New Hampshire agrees to support them and introduces a
01:15:05
resolution to exonerate Captain McVeigh. The chairman of the Senate Armed Forces Committee
01:15:10
and former Navy Secretary Senator John Warner of Virginia refuses to bring the resolution to the
01:15:16
Senate floor for a vote, which stalls her efforts. Boo. Okay, but here's where it gets crazy.
01:15:21
Commander Mukisora Hashimoto fucking appears once again to make one final contribution to
01:15:28
clearing McVeigh's name. He writes Senator Warren a letter saying, quote, our peoples have forgiven
01:15:34
each other for that terrible war and its consequences. Perhaps it is time your peoples
01:15:39
forgive Captain McVeigh for the humiliation of his unjust conviction, end quote. He knew all along.
01:15:47
He knew all along. Yeah, for sure. And so with that, the resolution to exonerate Captain McVeigh
01:15:51
is voted on, passes, and is signed by President Bill Clinton on October 12, 2000.
01:15:58
13 days later, on October 25, 2000, Hashimoto passes away. It was like his last fucking heroic act.
01:16:07
Oh my God. Despite Congress's exoneration, it takes until July of 2001 for the U.S. Navy to officially
01:16:15
clear the charges for McVeigh's official record. Survivor Giles McCoy is overjoyed by the news and said, quote, Captain McVeigh was not guilty of anything, McCoy says, except for the fortune or misfortune of war.
01:16:28
So in 2005, an event is held for the 60th anniversary of the USS Indianapolis is sinking.
01:16:36
Commander Hashimoto's daughter and granddaughter, Sonaye Hashimoto Aida and Otsuko Aida,
01:16:45
respectively, join the event to support the survivors. Oh, my God. They're not sure their presence will be taken well, understandably, like, but the survivors
01:16:54
and their loved ones welcome the women with open arms. Together, they all sing God Bless America, demonstrating an unprecedented display of healing and forgiveness.
01:17:05
And that is the story of the sinking of the USS Indianapolis I cannot believe that that story as horrible as the one thing I knew about that story that the sharks circling up wasn the worst thing The idea that the Navy would try to
01:17:25
pin it, a series of missteps and mistakes and whatever. Clear missteps and mistakes that they
01:17:31
made and then pin it on him and resulted in the deaths of a thousand or you know 700 plus yeah
01:17:38
crewmen i don't know what the terminology is and they would try to say that captain did it they
01:17:45
punished him for surviving almost for first surviving and yeah getting through a scenario
01:17:51
that nobody should ever go through ever right to the degree where the captain of the submarine
01:17:57
on the other side is like, this is insane. What are you doing? Totally. God, unbelievable story.
01:18:06
That's crazy. I know. So wild. So wild. Wow. I'm glad I know that. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Because it
01:18:13
makes me feel better about like humanity. Yes. Let's believe in the human spirit, shall we? Yeah.
01:18:19
Let's do that for 2024. Why not? I'd love that. I'd love that. Yeah. Thanks for listening, you guys.
01:18:25
Hey. Hey. Hey, guys. We believe in you and your human spirit. That's right. And just let's really focus on football.
01:18:34
Twice baked potatoes. Let's focus on the starches that are going to get us through this wintertime.
01:18:41
Hell yeah. Oh, you know what I just saw on TikTok? A really fascinating thing where if your house is cold and drafty and you're in a cold snap area,
01:18:48
You can replace your electrical socket cap things, you know, the backing on it. You can get a new one that keeps like drafts from coming into your house.
01:19:00
I never thought about the draft coming through there. Yeah, because we live in California.
01:19:04
But like when it's a fucking minus seven outside, you want all of that shit blocked up and you can get ones that like block it for you.
01:19:13
Anyway, if anybody needs that piece of information. Yeah, I love it. Stay warm. Stay aware.
01:19:18
Be careful for the ice wherever there's. What about the videos? Those videos of people eating into the ice.
01:19:25
Oh, the horror. The humiliation. It's so humiliating. And there's people that are just like, well, I guess I'll go crawl on the sidewalk to try to go get something to eat or drink down the street because this is the situation.
01:19:38
But I saw a guy who was trying to walk on like icy steps. And one of the tricks they say is at least this is one TikTok video Don bet the house on this you put tube socks on the outside of your shoes Oh that smart Yeah Speaking of tube socks if you have a bat by the
01:19:56
side of your bed for when bad things happen, put a tube sock on that. Because when you swing it at
01:20:01
someone and they try to grab the bat from you, they grab the tube sock instead. This is this
01:20:06
episode brought to you by tube socks. Tube socks. They'll keep you alive. Save your life.
01:20:12
stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Good night. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah. and Allie Elkin. Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the
01:20:46
show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder and Twitter at MyFaveMurder. Goodbye.
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