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selling a persona of confidence and care, patients trusted him. He wore cowboy boots in the operating room
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and became sought after by patients. He promised to heal them. Instead, he left a trail of broken bodies.
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00:01:35
Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murder. The mini-sodes. That's right. Forgot about that.
00:01:51
Yeah, that's a crucial part. I don't introduce you, you don't introduce me. No, we don't do that for this. That's why it's always so confusing.
00:01:58
Every time for eight fucking years. It's so confusing. It gets harder. It doesn't get easier.
00:02:04
Just like life. Yeah. Right. You want to go first? Want me to go first? Oh, just really quick.
00:02:09
If you belong to the fan call, you can watch this compelling conversation. You don't just have to listen to it.
00:02:14
Go on to myfavoritemurder.com. Join or get in there. And for all the people that joined over Christmas, which apparently there was a big influx of people joining over Christmas or the holidays.
00:02:27
Thank you so much. We're so happy to have you here. Definitely. Here's my office wall that I've never sat in front of before.
00:02:34
Yeah, it's a new reveal of George's assorted photos and paintings and collectibles from the past.
00:02:40
A lot of the listener art up here, too. Oh, that's right. You want to go first in front of your new wall?
00:02:46
Sure. Really make it live in front of that wall. I got to make it pop. My grandpa was a Dallas police officer working the day JFK was shot.
00:02:54
You asked for it. Yes, we did. did. Yeah, we did. I think. Hello, beautiful ladies, pets, and gents. I'm going to jump right
00:03:03
in because this is a little bit of a long read, but you asked for it. Just read fast.
00:03:08
Stop bossing us around. Seriously. My grandfather, Virgil, fucking great classic name.
00:03:16
Legend. AKA Pa, and he would love it if y'all called him Pa, too, was a Dallas police officer and
00:03:22
was on duty in dispatch the day John F. Kennedy was shot in Dallas, Texas on November 22nd, 1963.
00:03:30
Pa is now 93 years old and could very well be the only surviving DPD officer from that awful day
00:03:36
60 years ago. He says, quote, if there's one alive, I don't know it. Last year, my family and I took
00:03:43
him to the Sixth Floor Museum at Dealey Plaza. This is the old book depository where Lee Harvey
00:03:47
Oswald shot JFK from the sixth floor for the first time. Walking with him through the museum,
00:03:53
up until he got tired and we happily wheeled him through, was amazing. He knew almost everyone in
00:03:58
the photos that lined the walls. He recognized the voices from the recordings that day. He basically
00:04:04
personally knew everyone involved from Dallas except Lee Harvey Oswald. You can even see my
00:04:09
grandpa in photos when Oswald was walked through police headquarters. He recently let me know he
00:04:15
saw himself on the news on the 60th anniversary of JFK's death. He said, I was standing in the
00:04:21
hall as they were taking him down the hallway. I was out there a looking too. I was in those
00:04:26
pictures. The homicide captain's office was across the hall from my office. Just a side note, the
00:04:32
homicide captain he is referring to is John William Fritz, who was also involved in the manhunt for
00:04:37
Bonnie and Clyde. Wow. And according to my grandfather was there in Louisiana when they
00:04:43
were gunned down. That's quite a career span there. Totally. The answer to the question ever
00:04:48
wants to know, Pa believes Oswald was the lone gunman and acted alone in the assassination of JFK.
00:04:55
However, he does acknowledge that some fishy things happened after the assassination. In fact,
00:05:00
one of his neighbors who was a witness to JFK's assassination was found gunned down on a random
00:05:06
back road. All caps, yikes. Some other stuff too, but we'll leave it at that. At the end of 2020,
00:05:12
we lost my grandmother ma pa's wife of 73 years during the pandemic when he couldn't sit next to
00:05:19
her inside the nursing home he sat outside next to her window in all sorts of weather every single
00:05:26
day no i can't karen's crying he now fills his days taking care of his little chihuahua katie
00:05:33
drinking coffee with other old men at the local diner and visiting with his great grandchildren
00:05:39
Pa has been the best grandpa anyone could have ever hoped for. I know he and my grandmother are who I got my love of true crime from.
00:05:47
Many a night, Pa told me bedtime stories about his days as a police officer coming across
00:05:52
dead bodies and such. Sure I had to have been less than five years old at the time but I fine now Don worry Stay sexy and ask your grandparents about themselves before it too late
00:06:05
Ashley from Texas. Ashley, please say hi to Pa for us. Ugh, yes. Ashley, don't tell Pa this part.
00:06:12
But I would like to say this. I think it's a different thing of saying you believe that Lee Harvey Oswald was a lone gunman.
00:06:21
It's just that you can't explain any other thing because you don't know any other thing.
00:06:26
But you then witness a bunch of suspicious stuff. Yeah. It's very difficult, I think, especially for older generations to admit that they're just like, who does know?
00:06:36
I certainly don't. It's like you have to pick a side, pick a team, stay there. Yeah.
00:06:41
Like you can't believe the government on this one piece and then not on others without everything being thrown into question.
00:06:48
But I don't think they want to believe that. Right. And also, I think it's similar to when people don't want to talk about that they had a UFO experience where like, well, I don't want people to think I'm a conspiracy nut or some kind of like way that they make.
00:07:02
I don't know. Yeah, man. What an experience. And also just like to go through that museum and actually be reliving a thing where he was as traumatized as any other person in that in Dealey Plaza that day.
00:07:14
Totally. Totally. Wow. Mysteries abound. Yeah. Okay. Speaking of trauma, the subject line of this email is 1980s teaching techniques, stranger danger, and stay out of the forest.
00:07:27
Oh, wow. Hey, ladies, you recently asked for stories from 80s kids about crazy things that happened at their schools.
00:07:34
And this reminded me of something that teachers thought was a great idea at the time, but with hindsight was just plain traumatizing.
00:07:42
I grew up just outside London, and then in parentheses, they put England. Shut up.
00:07:49
And when we were 10 years old in the late 80s, we had a special safety awareness training day.
00:07:54
We were particularly excited as not only were we getting out of normal lessons, but the older years had shown us the goodie bags you received at the end of the day.
00:08:03
So it felt like a party spirit. There was a definite buzz of anticipation in the air.
00:08:08
We got on the school bus, traveled to a specific training center and had a series of lessons throughout the day delivered by professionals in their field.
00:08:16
Most of the day was actually really helpful and hopefully full of lessons that kids learn today.
00:08:20
For example, there was a fire safety training from firemen. Don't play with matches.
00:08:25
Don't leave pots heating on the stove without keeping an eye on them and how to call the firemen if you needed them.
00:08:31
The ambulance men and women showed us some basic first aid like the recovery position and how to tell if someone is actually choking, etc.
00:08:40
There wasn't an expectation that kids could actually deal with these issues all by themselves,
00:08:45
but more so that you felt confident recognizing when something was serious and asking for help.
00:08:50
This was all great. But then came the police section on stranger danger. We watched a video on not speaking to strangers.
00:08:57
This was good. We had a chat about how you would react if a stranger came up to you.
00:09:01
Brilliant. And then we headed outside for some fresh air and headed into the woods walking for a bit.
00:09:07
The group stood there, and one girl was told to walk back to the center by themselves.
00:09:13
Off she went, la la la. Then we heard a high-pitched scream of terror. What? We looked at each other in horror, but the instructor didn't seem phased at all.
00:09:21
Instead, he waited for a little bit and then sent the next girl off to the same fate.
00:09:26
We shuffled nervously and wondered what was coming. One by one, we were all picked off until it was my turn to go.
00:09:34
By this point, I was petrified and was looking behind every tree to see if a stranger was about to jump out at me.
00:09:40
Should I just run the whole thing? But from my avid TV watching, I understood that if you ran in the woods, you were likely to fall over a tree root while looking behind you and get murdered.
00:09:50
It happened all the time. Instead, I walked as fast as I could, and even though I am not religious at all, I prayed it would just be okay.
00:09:58
just as i was beginning to relax a little bit and think that i was almost inside of the building
00:10:03
a man appeared out of nowhere and called out to me i started to run he started to chase me what the
00:10:10
fuck i was running through the woods shouting for help and then just as my heart reached its maximum
00:10:15
beat per minute heavily panting and sweating with fear i reached my friends and safety the stranger
00:10:21
arrived and said well done and headed back into the woods to chase the next victim the rest of us
00:10:27
looked at each other, quietly shaken. What were they thinking with this lesson? A little practical
00:10:34
interaction that would cement the lessons we learned? Nothing like a little bit of trauma
00:10:38
to sear something into your mind. Apparently, the goodie bag filled with a pen, notepad,
00:10:43
Stranger Danger stickers, and some sweeties was supposed to end the day on an upbeat note.
00:10:48
Oh, the 80s. I can't get over this email. That's insane. It's basically like they're like,
00:10:54
just in case this happens to you in the future, let's get you ready now. But also, I kind of love about this is that, you know, when you when something happens and you react in the moment correctly, and now you have faith in yourself that something happens, you can handle it.
00:11:08
You have a little more like confidence in yourself. Like the kids who actually ran, they have that.
00:11:13
The ones who didn't now are ruined. That's the trauma. The first girl. And also, when I first started reading this email, I was like, why aren't any of these other little girls like being like running after the first girl or saying, what the fuck is this?
00:11:30
Get me out. Like, of course not. They're children. But just that idea, it almost felt like a psychological experiment where it's like, oh, you're just going to let all your friends walk into the forest.
00:11:38
Okay. Yeah. Okay. Here's the rest. So now over 30 years later, every time I walk in through any wooded area, I think of this lesson.
00:11:46
And then in parentheses, it says, yes, if their intention was to make it memorable, it really
00:11:51
worked I told my own kids about it when we went for a woodland walk recently and their jaws dropped We all had a giggle about the craziness of whoever came up with this idea but secretly while giggling I was still checking behind the trees for the danger of
00:12:05
the lurking stranger. Stay sexy, stay out of the forest, and stay away from 1980s teaching principles,
00:12:12
Katrina. Wow. Yeah. Let's not go back. It's like caveman days when we talk about stuff like this
00:12:20
We talk about like 70s when I think of 70s childhood stuff, which is all me and my sister and my cousin Stevie do when I come home.
00:12:28
Just laugh about like our parents smoking at the gas station. It's just shit where you're just like, how?
00:12:36
Yeah, they roll up the windows when they need to smoke. It was cold out. Yes. Just roll it up for the next 10 minutes.
00:12:41
You're fine. That's right. That's fine. Children get emphysema. This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace.
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Goodbye. Summer is fun, but it can also completely destroy your routine. Between days at the beach, recovering from days at the beach, and then remembering you don't even like the beach, it can really mess up your day.
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00:16:00
Just starts. I wrote about my work at a crisis agency doing emergency child protection.
00:16:04
And then it says where I left a baby at a crime scene. And today's minisode about the two-year-old quote,
00:16:10
going to get her mom reminded me of my favorite escape artist. One early summer Saturday morning, like 5 a.m., I got a call.
00:16:19
I arrived to find a toddler in footie pajamas, riding a Fisher Price tricycle alongside the tracks of an industrial district.
00:16:27
Oh, no. He happily came to me when I offered to help him find his parents. And so with the toddler on my hip and the tricycle in my hand, we set off.
00:16:37
So someone was just like driving to work at five in the morning and just saw a toddler
00:16:40
bicycling, tricycling down the fucking road. I feel like that toddler was probably having the time of his life.
00:16:47
And the person driving like truly was like, there's going to be a medical issue in the
00:16:51
future because of that experience. Right. Or someone's pranking me or, yeah. Yes.
00:16:56
Or you're hallucinating. Any options. So off we set. And then it says, no, there is a side story here about the toddler putting his hand down my shirt and exposing my boob to the police officer at the scene.
00:17:06
But that's for another day. About 20 minutes into my search, I found two frantic parents in their pajamas running down the street.
00:17:16
He was very excited to see them and babbled about his adventure. Going into their house, they showed me the elaborate system they had rigged to keep their little troublemaker inside.
00:17:25
door lock, deadbolt, chain on the door, and an eyelet hook at the top corner out of reach.
00:17:32
They had even put his tricycle into the back of his dad's covered truck bed. So like this kid
00:17:38
was an escape artist. He has a plan. The evidence of his escape was clearly seen. He had dragged his
00:17:44
dad's workout bench to the door. This is a toddler. Yeah. Open the deadbolt and slid the chain off.
00:17:50
great hand buying skills Using a toy hockey stick then a bandit on the bench he pushed the eyelet hook up and out of its hole This is a fucking genius This is a smart child Yeah Once outside he climbed his dad truck bumper and opening the bed cover to climb in pushed
00:18:05
his trike to the ground. We brainstormed other ideas to thwart his future attempts, and I never got a call about
00:18:11
him again. He'd be in his 20s now, and I hope he has put these skills to great use, like as a cat
00:18:17
burglar or magician. Stay sexy and sew a tracker into toddler's PJs. B. That toddler is now Travis Kelsey. Congratulations. I mean, also, I love that those parents are like,
00:18:32
we need you to come into our house right now and look at what we are doing to keep this child in.
00:18:38
You must know that we're not neglecting. We're not bad people. It's so hard. It's hard enough.
00:18:46
Yeah. You can't get a smart one. It's great to have like a middle of the line. Yeah. You know, kind of relaxed IQ, normal. Yeah. Just wants a cookie. Right. Okay. Oh,
00:18:58
this is good. So I won't read you the subject line. Hello, besties. Day one listener here and
00:19:03
not to brag, but I've been able to tell your voices apart since 2018. It took two years,
00:19:10
but it's fine. It's so funny to me. I don't think we sound alike at all. I don't either.
00:19:15
And there's video out there of us talking. True. That's true. I have a cold right now,
00:19:19
so it makes it even more different. Anyway, I'm not a great writer, and I've been meaning to write
00:19:24
you this story for years, so let's get into it. In 2015, I was a freshman in college. I was going
00:19:29
with my girlfriends to Gulf Shores, I guess Alabama. Upon telling my mom my plans, she told
00:19:35
me that's where she took her freshman spring break trip as well. She was excited for me because she
00:19:41
had such a great time there when she was my age. Mom was quite the hippie party girl back in the
00:19:46
70, so I have no doubt she did. She went on to tell me that her girlfriend and her split a motel
00:19:51
room a short walk to the beach. The first night of the trip, they were getting ready for bed in
00:19:56
the bathroom when they saw a large cockroach crawling on the wall and behind the bathroom
00:20:01
mirror. My mom said to her friend, I'm not going to be able to sleep knowing that thing is in here.
00:20:06
It looked like the mirror was loosely hanging on the wall, so my mom armed herself with a flip-flop
00:20:11
and then in parentheses, or she would call it a thong, which is what we used to call them thongs.
00:20:17
And her friend got ready to remove the mirror for my mom to strike. Upon taking the mirror off the
00:20:23
wall, they saw no cockroach, but a hole in the wall. Oh, big enough for a person to squeeze
00:20:29
through. Puzzled, they took a look in the hole. And what did they see? I bet you're wondering.
00:20:35
Well, in the darkness of the hole, they could make out a triangle shaped shaft that was open
00:20:40
to the air above and dove into the ground. And just below them, leading to the mirror hole,
00:20:47
was a ladder. Oh my God. Oh my God. And what did you do after making this discovery? Call the cops?
00:20:54
I asked my mom. She replied, we replaced the mirror and went to bed. I said, Mom,
00:21:00
that's how murderers get in. And she responded, oh, well, I guess I just didn't think of that.
00:21:04
Oh, my God. Hippies. I guess the presence of cockroaches is the only thing that can keep my mom from getting her beauty rest.
00:21:13
They went on to have a great trip. Anyways, if you're staying in an old motel in Gulf Shores, check behind your mirrors.
00:21:20
SSDGM, Grace, she, her. I never even thought about that. Like you lock your door, you double lock it at a hotel, a motel, whatever, and you think you're safe.
00:21:29
But no. Yeah. But if you haven't seen the film Candyman, which if you haven't, there's a remake, a recent remake that's so good and so scary.
00:21:39
That's the plot. And also, I actually did the story that that movie is based on because that's really what a murderer was doing.
00:21:47
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Where to next? Goodbye. Okay, this is my last one. It says sweet neighbor, lighthearted, plus Amityville bonus.
00:25:01
I live in New York in a building that doesn't allow pets. So I got my psychiatrist to write a note saying I needed a dog and adopted Cece.
00:25:09
I have a lovely neighbor. Nadine is probably in her 70s, frail, gentle, and with purple pink highlights in her hair.
00:25:16
Her husband, Paul, is equally as frail. Can you imagine being called frail on a podcast?
00:25:21
Like, what the fuck? That really sucks. 70? Like, that's not that old anymore. And it's just like, how do you mean it?
00:25:27
Yeah. Have you tried to fight her and you beat her up? I kick Nadine's ass. And so...
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Okay, Paul is equally as frail, but energetic and wacky in a benign and even welcoming way.
00:25:41
When I first got Cece, each time I passed a neighbor, I would introduce her as my emotional support animal, ESA.
00:25:47
And Nadine and Paul are Cece's biggest fans. Nadine, Paul, and I frequently stopped to chat.
00:25:52
and I disclosed that I have depression and anxiety. Shortly after this conversation,
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Nadine called and said she had something for me. It was a little cryptic because she wanted to meet
00:26:02
at the library, even though we see each other pretty regularly at home. Nadine is the least
00:26:07
threatening person in the world, so Cece and I walked over to meet her. Nadine greeted us and
00:26:11
said she had a place where we could talk quietly. This automatically gave me weird vibes, but
00:26:17
curiosity led me to follow to a tiny back room designated for solo study sessions.
00:26:22
Nadine, Cece, and I walked in, and she told me to shut the door, and we sat down.
00:26:27
It was cramped in there. I thought immediately this could be one of two things. She is confiding in me that she is experiencing elder abuse.
00:26:35
I hoped not. Or I am being recruited for a cult. How exciting. Scan. Scan for problems.
00:26:41
Scan for issues. Yes. She had a big plastic book filled with cassette tapes. Remember, that's how audiobooks used to come.
00:26:48
Yep Back in the day The cover read Attacking Anxiety and Depression She explained that this series helped her tremendously many years ago and wanted to share it with me
00:27:00
She would also lend me her Walkman. Adorable. Yes. This was such a sweet and thoughtful gesture.
00:27:06
And I told her I would think about it as I have a lot of support already. And it says therapy, 12-step meetings, friends, family, nutritionist, personal trainer, medication.
00:27:15
The list goes on and on. When I get home, I hopped on Google to discover, disappointingly, it seemed like an innocuous self-help book, not a cult.
00:27:24
My murderino heart is always on the lookout. Maybe next time. I don't know where the story fits in, but I've been wanting to write it in for years and thought you may enjoy this one.
00:27:33
The other story I thought about sharing was that my grandmother had a catering business on Long Island, New York, in the 80s.
00:27:40
My mom, her daughter, was the server. They got a job for a private party in a home, but as they were preparing, they ran out of oven space.
00:27:47
The homeowner said they were welcome to use the ovens in the house next door. That house next door was the old DeFeo home, the Amityville Horror House.
00:27:57
Hey, no one lives there anymore. Go fucking use those ovens. Or there's been people there since that horrible thing happened and nothing's going on.
00:28:07
So you can just go right over and it's no big deal. Oh, my God. I've pressed my mom for details about this day, but all she remembers was, quote, walking back and forth across that big lawn was a pain in the ass.
00:28:18
I guess I didn't get my murderino gene from her. Love you all. Thank you so much for everything.
00:28:23
Stay sexy and adopt. Don't shop. Ariel. Ariel, first of all, if Nadine met you at the library, she's not frail.
00:28:33
It's so defensive for Nadine. I love that, though, so much, because I think it's a really good thing to point out.
00:28:39
of like people have had anxiety and depression for years and decades. It's just that you weren't
00:28:46
supposed to talk about it and you were supposed to like order a tape series privately and secretly
00:28:50
and then go listen to it privately and secretly. Yeah. Like to make that next step of actually
00:28:56
getting treatment or talking about, you know, whatever was just kind of not done. So I love
00:29:02
that because it was like Nadine was going, this used to be my dirty secret and now I can actually
00:29:07
show you. And it's not anymore. It's not anymore. It's not taboo anymore to have normal reactions
00:29:14
to life. Yes. You know? Yes. Aren't we all a little frail? Okay. Drop it, Karen. Just drop it.
00:29:22
Is that it or do you have one more? I have one more. Okay. And it's a nice wrap up because it's
00:29:26
a subject line is celebrity encounter. Dear Karen in Georgia. And I won't say fur babies because I
00:29:31
don't want to piss Karen off. Good. People are learning. You recently asked for stories about
00:29:36
celebrity encounters and I thought, finally, it's my time to shine. Let me set the scene.
00:29:42
It was the summer of 1999 in Omaha Nebraska I lived in Omaha my entire life And although it can be a sleepy little city it also a sudden it also a hidden gem
00:29:53
not a sudden gem. It's a hidden gem. A sudden gem sounds kind of terrifying. It's a sudden gem that sneaks up behind you at night.
00:30:02
It's also a hidden gem with many amazing amenities, including the number one zoo in the world.
00:30:07
And in the summer, home of the College World Series. In 1999, I was attending a college World Series game with my then boyfriend, now husband.
00:30:16
Bro is a big baseball fan, but if I'm being honest, I was there to people watch, eat snacks, and work on my tan.
00:30:22
That's right. You make the most. As I was sitting there, basking in the sun, I started to notice people looking at me.
00:30:29
They were pointing and staring. I asked my husband if I had anything on my face, and he assured me that I didn't.
00:30:34
People in front of us started turning around in their seats to look at me. Soon, it felt like the entire stadium was intently staring at me.
00:30:41
What is going on? I finally asked my husband. Why is everyone staring at me? He looked at me in disbelief.
00:30:47
They're not looking at you. That's Kevin Costner. He said, pointing to a man a couple of rows in front of us.
00:30:55
That's right. Kevin Costner, Field of Dreams man himself, was sitting in front of me,
00:30:59
cheering on his alma mater, Cal State Fullerton, in the College World Series. Apparently, my husband knew that Mr. Costner was there all along, but was more interested in the baseball game than filling me in on the fact that a freaking movie star was right in the front of me.
00:31:14
To this day, my husband likes to poke fun at the fact that I thought the entire stadium was obsessed with me.
00:31:20
And I like to point out that some of us would find a bona fide celebrity less than five feet away from us more interesting than a college baseball game.
00:31:29
Stay sexy and don't assume everyone's staring at you, Jennifer. Until they are. I love that so much.
00:31:37
It's like, oh my God, why are they looking at me? I also love Cal State Fullerton for Kevin Costner.
00:31:42
That's like, so humble. Go Kevin Costner. I know. Where did we think he would go?
00:31:48
Fullerton's kind of perfect for that guy. Did I ever tell you, this is just one of my dumb work stories, but we did a bit with him
00:31:55
when I worked on Ellen because we used to make the guests, like the A guests do like
00:32:00
little cold opens with us. and we just did this thing where he was on the elevator. I can't even remember what the bit was
00:32:08
supposed to be. And he was so, cause some people were like, look, I just want to get here and do
00:32:13
my thing and leave. He was so fun and into it and cool. Cause we had all these PAs be on the
00:32:18
elevator with him. Cause it was like a little elevator scene. And every time the doors would
00:32:22
close, it would go up and then you hear laughing and like, he was the coolest to everybody in a way
00:32:29
that I don't know why I thought he wouldn't be that way, but he was a thousand percent.
00:32:34
That's awesome. It was very cool. This episode is brought to you by Kevin Costner Yeah Let give him the respect he deserves Let finally give him the accolades that he If anybody is unsung it Kevin Costner
00:32:49
Send us your famous people stories or your I thought everyone was looking at me and they were looking at me.
00:32:54
And here's why. And it's something horrible and embarrassing. We want those fucking stories for sure.
00:32:59
Any embarrassing story we love. And don't forget that if you join the fan cult, you can watch this on video.
00:33:05
and see my childhood bedroom that's now been turned into an office that then got turned into a guest room that looks abandoned.
00:33:14
And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
00:33:24
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
00:33:33
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci. Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com.
00:33:42
And follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and on Twitter at My Fave Murder.
00:33:47
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