418 - Assume It's A Masterpiece | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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This is exactly right. Audible. Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup, Hyundai has its eyes

00:00:36

on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14.

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Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation. And Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved

00:00:45

the future within reach. Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. And by

00:00:50

engineering EVs with ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day because

00:00:55

the future isn't some far-off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official

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partner of FIFA. Goodbye. Where does summer take you? Maybe it's a coastal road trip or a quiet

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summer escape today. Visit Pura.com to learn more. Goodbye. Hello. And welcome to my favorite murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That is Karen Kilgandy.

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Tariff. We are going to do podcasting now. Here it is. Ready? It's talking. Do you have your

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podcasting tea? I've got my podcasting matcha, functional matcha going. I've got my PG tips.

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Awesome. Milk and sugar. Yep. Milk and honey. Old school Pepsi can. Old school. Well,

00:02:14

because it's caffeine free. Oh. And diet. I didn't know you were a Pepsi human. I thought

00:02:19

You were Diet Coke, human, and a water. I like to have three beverages. And I also, the truth is, Diet Coke is what everyone always has.

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But Diet Pepsi is my preference because I'm from the country. I really don't like Pepsi products.

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Are we going to have a fight right now? We could. I think people would love something like that.

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Right. Controversy. We just disagreed over Pepsi. Hold on. Wait, let's get into the energy of Coke versus Pepsi.

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Wait. you like pepsi uh yeah and i have for a while see i'm a coke girl and i feel like coke girls are like

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you know i don't know what are we on a different plane and oh well let's let's not i thought you

00:03:04

were bailing no i was trying to be a pick me girl over coke but i just couldn't think of anything

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i mean i just think that people keep diet coke around more because they know that the people who

00:03:16

care are the ones that like Diet Coke. Actresses. If you have an actress come over, let's just say

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an actress stops by your house, the car breaks down in front of your house, you're going to want

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to have Diet Coke on hand. I swear to you. And also sniffable Coke. And also cocaine Coke.

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If you want to be a good host or hostess, however you identify hosting wise. What do you have? I have a follow-up. I have. No. Why don't I ask you what you have and then

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immediately tell you what I have. That's not good podcasting. You must be excited. Tell me what you

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have. I just have a follow up for my story from last week, the Crouch family murders, that farm

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1800 farmhouse murder that someone named Emily wrote in. Can I read this to you real quick? And

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listen, this is a great sample of our hometown episodes. This is the kind of content you can

00:04:06

expect. And you should also write in to my favorite murder at Gmail. That's right. With

00:04:10

your content and it could be about anything. If you see on your feed that it says mini-sode

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and you're the kind of person that goes, I've never listened to one of those. Therefore,

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that's not for me. Hey, I relate. I'm also Gen X. You agree. You will like it. It's other people's stories. Yeah. That's all your friends.

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Why are we plugging our own podcast on the podcast? I don't know. They're doing enough.

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They're doing enough heavy lifting just listening to this shit. And yeah, and now we're fucking

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demanding. This starts, hi friends, Georgia did the Crouch family murders in episode 417,

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which took place in Jackson, Michigan. I have lived in Jackson most of my life. And this is

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one of my favorite stories to tell when we pass by the graveyard on our way out to the family farm.

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The rumor on Jackson is that escaped prisoners jumped off a train and broke into the house,

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killing the family. Remember it was like, is it the sun? Jackson is home to the big prison in

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Michigan, hosting some of the worst of the worst. We also have the oldest working train station in

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America. It is said that there was a horrible storm that night, which there was, and that some

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prisoners used it to escape the prison. The railroad tracks that run behind the prison also run behind

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the land that the Crouch family owned. Since they escaped, it's rumored that they saw the house and

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went in for clothes, food, supplies, et cetera, before hopping onto another train and then

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disappeared. Whoa. Because of the storm, the gunshots were hard to hear or possibly mistaken

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for thunder from the storm, which is why no one really noticed. And it goes on to talk about

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the suspected hauntings at the graveyard and stuff like that. Yeah. From Emily. Emily gave us a theory, see a working theory. At least that's something to clasp onto.

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And then it makes me think, remember, I've recommended this book literally seven times

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on this podcast, but it's because I'm so obsessed. It's a book called The Man from the Train.

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And that follows right along That what that guy would do Yeah In and out and never to be fucking seen again Right Except for your he not yours The murderer that Emily is talking about used a gun

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Oh, right. But you got to imagine back then there's so many, you know, hobos going town to town.

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True. You escape prison or even if you get, I mean, yeah, it's just probably happened a lot.

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It's like truck driver serial killers now. It's probably much more prevalent because.

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The anonymity. They're everywhere. Exactly. Yes. They get to slip right back in and then drive away.

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No shame on truck drivers. Y'all are doing great work out there when you're not killing people.

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Except for a handful. There are a handful. They are a handful, those truck drivers.

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I've been to your truck stops along the five. I know. What you got? The thing I was excited about that I was saying at the same time as you is there is a new series on Hulu called Shogun.

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Yeah. We started it. Yes. Did you? It's so fucking good. And I was so excited. And I thought I was excited about when this series was premiering because there's a billboard

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near my house, which sometimes I'll do. I'll be like, well, if that's my home billboard, I'll support you.

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Oh, that's sweet. I feel sad. The billboards around like that part of the valley, there's a lot of billboards that go

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up and I know people get really excited and they go right back down and no one ever sees

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what's on them. They're quick. Yeah. But so this one I was excited for and I was like, I love a sweeping historical drama, etc.

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But then my sister, I'm talking to my sister and she goes, I go, I don't know why I'm so excited, but I really am.

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And she goes, I know why you're so excited because Shogun was that book mom and dad read in the 70s.

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And that's what all their friends talked about. And like Shogun, I don't even remember it.

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But Laura remembers where that was like the book club book of the month or whatever.

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Like Clan of the Cave Bear. That's the one I fucking that has imprinted on me. Yes.

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And you've got Shogun. I love it. It's kind of like it seems like a Lord of the Rings, like a Japanese Lord of the Rings kind of a thing.

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But it's it's actually real. So it's like it's Japanese, like sorry, warring, feudal.

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Yeah. Yeah. But that idea of like, yeah, like clans and kingdoms and everybody fighting and who's going to do what.

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And but it's really fascinating. fascinating. It's also about colonialism and like how things like that were working back then where

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these countries are like, you showed up from where and you think you're going to do what?

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Like, it's amazing. Okay. I'll keep watching. And also, can I just tell you that there's

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a woman named Anna Sawai who plays Lady Mariko, who's amazing, really good. Hiroyuki Sanada,

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He plays the main lord. Great. Fun to watch. But the lead guy that's like the British guy that shows up there, his name's Cosmo Jarvis.

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Yeah, that's the best name. And I kind of want to watch him for the rest of his life.

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I'm like, oh my, who's this guy? He's there fighting everybody and almost dying.

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It's great. You love those Brits. Yes. And then really quick upcoming, the great Nestor Carbonell is going to,

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I just saw down here that he's in the cast where I'm like, where the hell is he?

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Because he's been in so many things that you love and you've seen him for a long time.

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For example. You're so good with names. I know. He was originally on Suddenly, Susan.

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But then he was on Lost. Oh, yeah. Really beautiful Latino man. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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You know that guy. He's in it, too. So I was like, I read all those names off my phone, by the way.

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Just exciting. I love an exciting series to get into and wait for. Yeah. And to be in it.

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Yeah. I have another podcast to recommend. I've been binging it and it's a sober, it's a sobriety podcast.

00:09:54

And in my ever evolving relationship with alcohol, I found that information, knowledge

00:09:59

about what alcohol does to your mind and body, as well as someone who's also been through

00:10:05

that, you know, who can empathize and has their own personal experience. So those two things really helped me attach to a theory and a mindset.

00:10:12

So this podcast I randomly found called Sober Powered. It's hosted by a gal named Jill.

00:10:17

She's a scientist. She's a chemist. She's a sober person. And it's like 15 minute little snippets of like what alcohol does to your body and how

00:10:28

to go to your first sober party. And, you know, just like in between all of those things.

00:10:33

And she also imparts her own personal experience, which is so helpful. It's been really incredible.

00:10:38

So check that out. Great. Sober Powered. Little just like quick episodes. You're in, you're out.

00:10:42

That's so good to be able to listen to something and kind of have a go to something that you

00:10:48

put on and you're like, oh, this is going to give me a little jolt. Yeah. This is going to give me a little new perspective that I want, but haven't been able to find

00:10:57

before. Right. Little boosts. I love that. Little boost. Yeah. Should we do Exactly Right Corner?

00:11:03

I think we should. Okay. Hey guys, we have a podcast network. I feel like this makes it sound like we pre-recorded this when I give this spiel.

00:11:12

This is an ongoing conversation. This is real, but let's do our fakest voices as we read this right now.

00:11:17

Super professional. Hey guys. Hey guys. Yeah, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right.

00:11:23

Here are some highlights. On this week's episode of 10th Voldemort Wicked Season 10, Kate Winkler Dawson takes us to

00:11:28

Colonial Williamsburg, Karen's favorite location, where we meet two men. one is holding a sword and the other is dead. And you got to listen now to find out if it was

00:11:38

murder or self-defense. And then on Not's Messed Up, an SVU podcast, Karen and Lisa discuss an

00:11:43

episode of SVU from 2013 called Internal Affairs. And they have a chat with actor Mark Manchalka,

00:11:50

who guest starred as an NYPD officer Also the newest MFM animated masterpiece is here It called The Zipper from episode 381 and features Karen That me And a cursed carnival ride and a possible future astronaut It is freaking hilarious

00:12:05

Go to youtube.com slash exactly right to watch every single one of Nick Terry's hilarious

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animations. Oh, and we really want to thank you for helping us spread the word about another exciting

00:12:15

podcast coming out here on Exactly Right. Last week, we announced it, The Butterfly King, and it premieres on March 21st.

00:12:23

The trailer's already on the true crime charts. That's because of you guys. Thank you so much for that support.

00:12:30

It's co-produced with our partners from Blanchard House. They're British. We're really trying to impress them.

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Please help us make the British people think we're cool. And please, if you are on Instagram,

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00:14:12

The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.

00:14:22

Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.

00:14:28

Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.

00:14:36

And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far off concept.

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It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.

00:14:50

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Goodbye. Okay, I'm first this week. Yeah. Are you ready to do this? Always. Thank God.

00:15:50

Okay. This one, I didn't really know anything about before I started reading this research.

00:15:57

This is one of the most infuriating stories and one of the most upsetting stories.

00:16:02

Oh, no. But ultimately, there is a silver lining. Thank God. Okay. I'm going to tell you today about the tragic murder of a young female soldier and the international outrage that followed her death.

00:16:14

This case raised very serious discussion about the discrimination, harassment, and violence suffered by women, especially women of color in the U.S. military.

00:16:23

This is the story of the murder of Vanessa Guillen, her life and legacy, as well as her family's fight for justice for Vanessa and for every enlisted person.

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Wow. This is recent. This is during the lockdown, right? That's right. Shit. I remember reading this.

00:16:39

Yeah. So the sources that were used on the story today are there's a Netflix documentary called I Am Vanessa Guillen and a 2020 Houston Chronicle article entitled Portrait of a Fallen Soldier by Gabrielle Banks, Olivia P. Tallett and Hannah Dellinger.

00:16:57

And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So in this story that I'm about to tell you, I refer to the army base that this takes place on as Fort Hood because that's what it was called at the time.

00:17:08

but it has been renamed to Fort Cavazos after General Richard Edward Cavazos. And, you know,

00:17:16

sometimes those changes happen. And then you're like, I was like, well, I don't want to talk about

00:17:20

the Confederate, you know, general loser that it was named after in the first place, which how did

00:17:26

that happen? But I did look up a little information on General Richard Cavazos. And I'll just tell you

00:17:33

real quick. Here's why he got picked. He is a Texas native and the army's first four-star general

00:17:39

of Hispanic descent. He was Mexican American. He not only served in Korea, but then he went back

00:17:46

and served in Vietnam. And during the course of battle, and I believe this was in a battle in

00:17:52

Korea his group was attacked by a way bigger like advancing group of enemies And after the battle was done he went and found five of his fellow soldiers who were all wounded and he carried them one by one to

00:18:09

safety. And so for that, he earned the Distinguished Service Cross. So I think people should know

00:18:16

what the name is changed to before they start bitching about woke this or blah, blah, blah,

00:18:22

that because I would say this guy is who anything should be named after, but obviously and especially

00:18:29

a Texan army base. Okay. So the story begins in Houston, Texas in 1999. Vanessa is the second of

00:18:37

six children, four daughters and two sons born to Rogelio and Gloria Guillen. Rogelio and Gloria

00:18:44

are first generation immigrants from Mexico. Rogelio supports the family as a machine operator

00:18:50

while Gloria raises the six children. Full-time job, and then some. So from Vanessa's very first moments of life,

00:18:59

she proves herself to be a fighter. According to a profile in the Houston Chronicle,

00:19:04

after she was born, she spent nearly a month in the NICU being treated for breathing issues.

00:19:10

But she made a full recovery. She grows into a gifted student and a talented athlete.

00:19:15

Her teachers remember Vanessa as an excellent writer, and her track and soccer coaches remember all the time she'd show up early for practice

00:19:22

to, quote, do a little extra training. So even though she's exceptional in many ways, Vanessa is also a typical teenage girl.

00:19:31

She talks with her friends about boys. She gets in her head about her body and the way it looks.

00:19:36

And despite being described as a very composed and strong young woman, she does cry at least one time over a bad haircut.

00:19:45

That's about as typical teenage girl as you can get. I would say. The tears I shed over my Demi Moore ghost haircut. Why? Why in the world would I

00:19:55

have made that choice for myself? One thing that does feel unique about Vanessa is that she figures

00:19:59

out her life's calling at a very young age. In the documentary, I am Vanessa Guillen, her mother

00:20:05

Gloria says, quote, when she was 10, she told me, mom, when I grow up, I want to join the army.

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I thought it was a child thing and she would forget. And then when she was turning 18,

00:20:15

she told me in the bedroom, Mom, remember when I said I'd either join the Army or become an

00:20:20

astronaut and go to the moon? I said, you better go to the moon. But she said, I already enlisted.

00:20:26

Oh, yeah. Wow. So in 2018, just two days after Vanessa graduates from high school,

00:20:33

she arrives in South Carolina for basic training. Like she went immediately. Yeah.

00:20:39

Once she completes basic training, she shipped out to Virginia for more concentrated training

00:20:44

in firearms repair. And then she's assigned to Fort Hood back in her native Texas, where she'll

00:20:50

be working with the Regimental Engineer Squadron as a weapons mechanic. The base is about three

00:20:56

hours away from her family in Houston. When she arrives at Fort Hood on December 19th, 2018,

00:21:03

Vanessa discovers it's a massive army base. It's one of the largest in the United States,

00:21:09

and it actually feels like its own mini city. There's parks, there's grocery stores,

00:21:14

restaurants. There's even a shopping mall. Shit. Yeah. I didn't know that was a thing. I know. I

00:21:18

didn't either. But Fort Hood has a somewhat notorious reputation. There have been two deadly

00:21:24

mass shootings at Fort Hood. What? And it grabbed headlines for both drug and gun trafficking ring

00:21:31

busts. Oh my God. So yeah. I mean, it's basically like a city. Yeah. With all the problems and a

00:21:38

shopping mall. There's also a long history of sexual violence and misconduct at Fort Hood,

00:21:44

including an unbelievable case of a sergeant named Gregory McQueen, who was convicted in 2015

00:21:50

of luring down on their luck female soldiers into a sex trafficking operation. Oh my God.

00:21:57

The Houston Chronicle reports that McQueen was once, ironically and horrifically,

00:22:02

quote, tasked with coordinating his Fort Hood battalion's sexual assault prevention program.

00:22:08

Jesus fucking Christ. Yeah. Of course, the issue of sexual harassment in the military is not confined to Fort Hood.

00:22:15

The Houston Chronicle reports that, quote, in 2019, military services received 7,825 formal reports of sexual assault.

00:22:26

But a survey found that an estimated 20,500 active duty service members experienced sexual assault in 2018, according to that same report.

00:22:39

End quote. And it's been stated by high-ranking government officials that even among those statistics,

00:22:45

Fort Hood has the highest number of sexual assault cases. Wow. So up until this point, Vanessa has excelled at boot camp.

00:22:54

She genuinely enjoyed her training in Virginia. But according to her family, who see her just about every weekend when she's off duty,

00:23:03

Vanessa does not like Fort Hood and she's vocal about it. The Houston Chronicle says that Vanessa, quote, complained that it was dirty, the food was bad and the officers were mean, end quote.

00:23:14

And that's a person who wanted to go into the army and who's been through basic training where they are the meanest that they will ever be to you, I would imagine.

00:23:23

And it's really saying something. So in the fall of 2019, Vanessa temporarily leaves Fort Hood for routine combat training in the Mojave Desert.

00:23:32

According to her mother Gloria, when she returns to Texas, she's a different person.

00:23:37

Gloria remembers asking Vanessa what's wrong, and she replies, quote, I'm tired, Mommy. I just want to get out of the Army, end quote.

00:23:45

Then in February of 2020, Vanessa tells her mom that she's being sexually harassed by a sergeant.

00:23:52

But despite Gloria's pleas, Vanessa will not tell her the man's name. When Gloria asks if Vanessa has reported this harassment, Vanessa says,

00:24:00

tells her, quote, no, they laugh at us there. They laugh at everyone. They don't believe us.

00:24:06

We are nobody, end quote. So now we fast forward to April of 2020. COVID-19 is raging, but because

00:24:14

Vanessa is considered an essential worker, she's still regularly completing her shifts at Fort Hood.

00:24:20

And then on April 22nd, she technically has a day off, but she gets a last minute text message

00:24:26

asking her to come in to work on something. She figures she'll be able to knock this job out quickly,

00:24:31

so she heads to work wearing her civilian clothes. In her mind, it's like maybe she was thinking

00:24:37

she was just going to be there for 15 minutes and then go to her day off. The first inkling that something was wrong

00:24:45

comes within hours, around midday. Vanessa has recently gotten engaged to a man in Houston

00:24:51

named Juan Cruz, and Juan and Vanessa talk every single day at lunchtime as a way of kind of like coping with being in this long distance relationship.

00:25:01

But on April 22nd, when Juan calls Vanessa, she doesn't pick up. He calls again.

00:25:07

There's no answer. And she isn't responding to his texts. In fact, the texts he's sending aren't even being labeled as delivered,

00:25:16

which strikes Juan as very strange. Like Vanessa's phone is either off or it's out of service.

00:25:22

So he just keeps trying to get in touch with her. but as the day goes by, his confusion turns into panic. Juan calls Vanessa's sister Myra,

00:25:31

who also can't reach her sister. They notice that Vanessa hasn't been posting on any of her

00:25:36

social media accounts. So around 9 p.m., Myra calls Fort Hood directly and asks if anyone

00:25:42

has seen her sister. But no one is able to give Myra any information on where Vanessa might be,

00:25:48

other than that she was last seen at the base around midday. So that night, Myra and Juan get

00:25:54

into the car and make the three-hour drive from Houston to Fort Hood. They arrive around 3 a.m.,

00:26:00

but they're not allowed to enter the base until the next morning. So they have to get a hotel.

00:26:06

They get up right away, and around 9 a.m., Myra and Juan are finally allowed to meet with

00:26:12

military police. But instead of this bringing any answers or any comfort, it just causes more

00:26:19

concern. Myra says, quote, my interaction with the military police was a joke. The first sergeant told me,

00:26:25

oh, do you want to go to her room and see if anything's missing? And I thought about it,

00:26:30

and I was just like, if it were to be part, God forbid, of an investigation, he shouldn't be letting me in there. Sure. I love that she knows that.

00:26:38

I love that she knows that. Of course. And I'm furious that he either doesn't know that or doesn't care.

00:26:46

Right. It's such a leftover, like early 70s true crime story thing of like, oh, I'll just do what's convenient in this moment as opposed to what's good for this investigation.

00:26:56

Right. This is probably whatever I think it is because I'm jumping to conclusions. So I don't really care how it's treated.

00:27:01

Right. So Myra and Juan learn a few concerning facts, like that Vanessa's car is still parked at the base and that she's left behind a few personal effects like her dorm keys and her ID card in an armory room. And yet her phone is nowhere to be found.

00:27:21

When Myra asks the officer where her sister's keys and ID card are, she's surprised to learn that the officer is casually holding on to both in his pocket.

00:27:31

Okay. So Myra says, quote, I was just so confused. This all should have been turned in.

00:27:37

If this is the police that I'm supposed to trust to look for my sister, game over.

00:27:41

End quote. What a horrible, like, stomach drop moment that must have been. Yeah, like, there's nothing you can do.

00:27:48

Like, what do you do next? Right. So when it becomes clear that Myra and Juan aren't getting anywhere with the military police, they head back to Houston.

00:27:57

Luckily, Myra and her family know that time is of the essence in a missing persons case.

00:28:02

So her friends and family begin posting her picture and her information all over social media, encouraging others to repost and share.

00:28:11

They get no help from the Fort Hood investigators who don't seem to be taking any immediate action to get any information out to the public.

00:28:19

So the Guillens decide they're going to have to do it for themselves. Juan would later say, quote,

00:28:25

I was going to the gas stations, to stores, to the bus stops, posting missing signs for the love of my life.

00:28:31

It's a nightmare. Every minute that passes was killing me inside slowly. End quote.

00:28:37

Oh my God, I can't imagine. So a week goes by with no sign of Vanessa. And at this point, the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Division,

00:28:46

or they're called CID, has been looped in. They handle investigations within the military,

00:28:52

and they operate on their own system versus like funneling it through the civilian justice system.

00:28:58

At this point, the Guillens get the sense that they're being shut out of whatever this military

00:29:04

investigation might be. They are not being given any updates. They basically feel like they're

00:29:10

being ignored. For example, when Gloria reportedly tells the military police that her daughter

00:29:15

admitted to her that she was being sexually harassed by a superior on base, and she knew

00:29:20

that was a very important detail. And she knew that if anyone could look into that exact detail,

00:29:25

it would be these military investigators. It should be, right? They should have run to that

00:29:32

person. But according to the Guillens, that information is just shrugged off. So of course,

00:29:38

Vanessa's family, their fury is growing in tandem with their anxiety. And like, when I read that

00:29:44

line, I was like, yeah, so is mine. Like, what in the fuck if you have a missing person's case where

00:29:51

you not sure about anything but you being given these clues Yeah Why are you not A doing something about it and B telling the family what happening Totally Vanessa sister Lupe says quote because of the frustration of not having answers we decided if no one wants to talk to us we going to talk to them

00:30:09

We started protesting the first week of May out in front of Fort Hood. Nice. So Vanessa's friends and family, left with no other options, show up at the Army base with posters and with chants, ready to put pressure on the military investigators to do a better job looking for Vanessa.

00:30:27

Around this time, Myra also reaches out to a lawyer named Natalie Kawam, who has extensive experience working with the military.

00:30:35

And Natalie agrees to take the family's case pro bono. She says, quote, Of course, our most important thing was to find Vanessa.

00:30:42

I saw that the military did not give a damn. They're going to railroad this family.

00:30:47

And that's when I said we need to do our own investigation. End quote. And even if like the intention is not to railroad the family, even if there was an investigator with a heart of gold.

00:30:58

Yeah. Basic actions were not being taken. And the family's being treated like it's no big deal when someone is gone.

00:31:06

Yeah. That someone is their employee and their service member. Yeah, for sure. So the Guillens reach out to as many people as they can think of for help, including a nonprofit called Texas ECU Search, which is a volunteer-based organization that helps with search and recovery efforts for missing people.

00:31:26

At that time, the Guillens keep the public informed about the case by constantly posting on social media on all platforms.

00:31:33

They also have dedicated pages tracking Vanessa's case in real time. So then Myra gets an idea.

00:31:40

Because of the total lack of transparency in the official CID investigation, she's like, we should take the opposite approach.

00:31:48

So Myra says, quote, My mom thought it was very important to point out Vanessa's sexual harassment,

00:31:54

but basically the military investigators ignored it. I asked myself one night when I couldn't sleep, should I post this or not?

00:32:01

I mean, it is the military. What if I get in trouble? But I decided to post it. End quote.

00:32:07

So Myra publishes several posts that mention her sister's sexual harassment claims.

00:32:13

And not long after, her sister Lupe tells her a hashtag has popped up online where members of the military are sharing harrowing stories of being harassed, abused, and assaulted while enlisted.

00:32:25

And that hashtag is hashtag I am Vanessa Guillen. Wow. So this hashtag goes viral and it quickly transforms into an online community.

00:32:36

This is a quote from the Houston Chronicle, quote, within two weeks of its formation, a private Facebook group called I Am Vanessa Guillen attracted 12,000 female military members who posted about abuse they had suffered, end quote.

00:32:51

Incredible. Right. Then what started as a hashtag becomes a movement. Demonstrations are held in places like Washington, D.C. and Los Angeles.

00:33:01

Posters with Vanessa's face on them are spotted as far away as Egypt. Chills. Right?

00:33:06

And in her native Houston, this one gets me. 20 murals, one for each year of Vanessa's life, are painted throughout the city in her honor by local artists.

00:33:17

But even as this wave of public support rises, the Guillens still have no idea what's happening in the investigation.

00:33:26

Yeah. Wow. In early June. So this happened at the end of April. In early June, officials at Fort Hood finally hold a press conference.

00:33:35

And in it, they acknowledge Vanessa's disappearance and they state their belief that foul play is in fact involved.

00:33:41

For the family, it's at best underwhelming. Vanessa's fiance Juan says, quote, I was like, it's about time they said it.

00:33:50

We've been told nothing. Nothing. Yeah. Yeah. So they actually were told one thing.

00:33:58

One of the detectives takes the opportunity to deny full stop that Vanessa was the victim of sexual harassment.

00:34:04

He actually says, quote, We've interviewed hundreds of people to include all acquaintances and coworkers of Miss Guillen.

00:34:11

There's no allegation whatsoever that she's been sexually assaulted or harassed.

00:34:16

And any hint of information that was sexual harassment was completely looked at without any credible information.

00:34:24

End quote. Yeah, because you can't talk to her because she's fucking missing. But also, you have people in a very strict and regimented system of a pecking order-based system.

00:34:36

Right. The people at the bottom are the ones who are probably most likely going to be harassed or assaulted.

00:34:43

Right. And they have the most to lose. They have the most to lose and there's no internal system set up to do anything if it happens anyway.

00:34:51

And here's a great example of that is you saying that didn't happen. You saying definitively that that didn't happen.

00:34:58

Who exactly are you trying to clear in saying that? That's an interesting thing to ask yourself as the speaker.

00:35:06

Why would that be a thing that's so important when you have no answers? Yeah. The point is that she's missing, not that you need to clear yourself.

00:35:14

Not that a thing that is unreported because of the dangerous aspect of it. Right.

00:35:21

Like, it's just such an ignorant, like, you know what? I talked to the boys. We say no.

00:35:26

Right. Huh. Okay. So, of course, after this, Vanessa's loved ones are furious. They made a statement during the press conference announcing that she's missing and that foul play is suspected.

00:35:37

And then they accused tacitly accused Vanessa of lying about her sexual harassment experiences.

00:35:45

So after this press conference, Vanessa's mom, Gloria gives an impassioned speech to the public where she says,

00:35:51

quote, why until now are they making this show of searching for my daughter Why now I demand justice and respect for me and my daughter a soldier that enlists in the military to serve her country and all of us Because God forbid she is found dead

00:36:06

I will shut down this base. Love you. The only reason I just made that sound of laughing is

00:36:15

because I'm trying not to cry. That's amazing. Like the chutzpah. Oh my God. We need more moms

00:36:21

giving speeches into public address systems with this energy when that bullshit takes place.

00:36:31

Okay. So here's the behind the scenes information that the Army CID was compiling this entire time.

00:36:39

There is a suspect in Vanessa's missing persons case, and his name is Aaron Robinson.

00:36:46

What we know about Aaron is that he's a 20-year-old armorer at Fort Hood. He is not in Vanessa's chain of command, so he isn't the predatory sergeant that she told her mother about.

00:36:58

But we also know that Aaron and Vanessa crossed paths on April 22nd, the day she went missing.

00:37:05

Investigators learned from Vanessa's phone records and text messages that she agreed to help Aaron confirm the serial numbers on some weapons that morning.

00:37:14

This doesn't seem to be the reason that she went into work that day. Aaron asked her for help once she was on site.

00:37:22

And Aaron is the last person known to have interacted with Vanessa before she disappeared.

00:37:27

So, Army investigators speak with Aaron multiple times after Vanessa vanishes. He tells them that on the night of April 22nd, he worked a full day and then he went home and spent the rest of the night with his 22-year-old girlfriend, Cicely Aguilar.

00:37:42

Aaron claims to have left his house just once that evening to sign onto a work computer for some sort of training of some kind.

00:37:48

But this story quickly falls apart when on May 18th, investigators speak to two different witnesses.

00:37:57

On the day Vanessa went missing, both of these witnesses saw Aaron, quote, pulling a large tough box with wheels that appeared very heavy in weight out of the arms room where he worked, end quote.

00:38:11

Aaron's seen putting this box into his car and speeding away. So investigators search Aaron's cell phone,

00:38:18

and they see that Aaron's made several calls to Cecily on April 22nd, making them wonder what the couple was discussing at that time on the day of Vanessa's disappearance.

00:38:30

And then on June 30th, a few weeks after that CID press conference, contractors working on a fencing project stumble upon human remains.

00:38:39

They're found near the Leon River, which is about 30 miles away from Fort Hood. And when they check Aaron's phone records, they place him in this exact spot on the night she disappeared.

00:38:52

So the same day the remains are discovered, the Army police confront Cecily. She admits that Aaron actually did confess to murdering Vanessa in the arms room with a hammer before moving her body off base in that heavy box.

00:39:08

How do you get that confession and then keep moving on with your life? I guess if he was abusive and she was scared of him, then that would make sense.

00:39:20

I don't know. I don't know that that's it. But well, here, you'll hear about it.

00:39:25

Okay. Aaron then took Vanessa's body out to the Leon River site and asked Cecily to help him dismember and dispose of her body.

00:39:34

And she agreed to help him. Yeah. Incredibly, despite Cecily's confession and the strong circumstantial evidence against Aaron, the military police do not arrest him.

00:39:47

What? In fact, as journalist Heather Osborne says, quote, the day that Vanessa's remains were discovered, Aaron Robinson was actually being held for breaking COVID protocols.

00:39:58

Army investigators failed to let the soldier who was in charge of looking over Robinson know that he was also suspected of killing Guillen.

00:40:06

basically he just had like a chaperone with him he was being held but it wasn't like a jail

00:40:12

situation yeah they didn't take his phone away from him and because he had been following news

00:40:18

updates on vanessa's case aaron watches in real time as they announce that they are in fact vanessa's

00:40:25

remains that were discovered and they've now been identified oh my god aaron realizes that the walls

00:40:32

are closing in on him. So on July 1st, 2020, the day after Vanessa's remains are found and identified,

00:40:39

Aaron manages to get away from his army chaperone, obtains a gun, gets into a car,

00:40:45

drives several miles off base and kills himself. To this day, it's unclear what Aaron's motive

00:40:51

actually was, but his girlfriend Cecily eventually offers one. She claims that Vanessa

00:40:57

became aware of Aaron and Cecily's relationship after seeing Cecily's picture on Aaron's cell phone's lock screen.

00:41:04

It turns out Cecily was married to a different Fort Hood soldier at the time. And she claims that Aaron was afraid

00:41:11

that Vanessa would report him for, quote, violating the army's fraternization rules,

00:41:16

which would have likely led to some sort of disciplinary action against him. But many people, including Vanessa's family,

00:41:26

do not buy that story. As Myra has said, quote, My sister was a very responsible person that would not meddle into Robinson and Aguilar's alleged relationship.

00:41:39

End quote. The family continues to suspect that predatory sexual behavior, in this case not from a sergeant but from Aaron Robinson, played a role in Vanessa's death.

00:41:49

Yeah. But that's the family's theory. Right. So that's theory. But it does not make sense.

00:41:54

if you are so scared of that secret coming out why would you put her on your lock screen when she the wife of a co Totally Nonsensical Yeah

00:42:05

Eventually, an Army investigation will conclude that Vanessa had been sexually harassed by 13 different Army colleagues,

00:42:14

disproving the statement made by the detective at the press conference, who defiantly said that all claims of sexual harassment had been, quote,

00:42:21

completely looked at without any credible information, end quote. I mean, the shaking of my head just won't stop.

00:42:28

I mean, it's this kind of thing that is, we talk about so much, we have talked about for eight years,

00:42:35

that women know, that women talk about, but it's like, how long does this bullshit continue?

00:42:44

Yeah, it's pervasive. It's in every fucking aspect of our society. And it's something that

00:42:50

we have to deal with since we were children and every day, and you're going to go and talk about how it's disproven.

00:42:57

There is no sexual harassment. Yeah. It just doesn't, you know what? None of the boys here are like that.

00:43:02

So, Hey, stop trying to threaten their future and their livelihoods. It's that shit.

00:43:07

And it is bros before hose energy, brain capacity instead of like, Hey, how about we don't have predators?

00:43:17

How about we don't cover for predators? How about we don't act like predators? How about that?

00:43:23

Pretty basic shit. Get your shit together. Go to fucking therapy. Live a fucking day in our lives and see what it's like for every single fucking woman out there.

00:43:33

But also just like, how about the culpability of men pulling that into the conversation as opposed to immediately being like, actually, she was lying at the press conference talking about that she's missing.

00:43:45

It's like if you're not one of those assholes, then fucking speak up. Yeah. And be a fucking ally.

00:43:52

And be assholes to the dudes around you that are those assholes. Yes. Speak up when you see fucking something.

00:43:58

There's like eight dudes that are like, we're trying. Like weeping openly. Oh, my God.

00:44:05

So frustrating. Yeah. At the same time, Army investigators continue to deny that Aaron Robinson was one of Vanessa's

00:44:13

harassers. So there's just no way he was one of the third, one more. No, he murdered her.

00:44:19

Definitely. He definitely murdered her violently and dismembered her body and disposed of it.

00:44:23

But no, no, no, that couldn't have been it. Sorry. No, but that's one step too far.

00:44:29

Very strange kind of thinking, very illogical thinking. Absolutely. Very victim blamey thinking.

00:44:37

So in August of 2023, Cecily Aguilar is sentenced to 30 years in prison for her role in Vanessa's murder.

00:44:47

So now that's three young lives lost. Just for what? So Vanessa's sister Lupe said, quote, I just have to acknowledge that I may never know the answer of what happened to my sister.

00:45:03

End quote. As painful as that is, Lupe also sees how Vanessa's story has quite literally changed the world. Lupe says, quote, seeing people coming from all over made us have that piece of hope. It kept growing and growing from Houston, Austin, San Antonio to California. There are so many murals in Mexico where my parents were born.

00:45:26

end quote it's because of the resilience the hard work and the fearless advocacy of the guian family

00:45:34

that vanessa's legacy is now so enormous she's a symbol for an entire movement that aims to support

00:45:41

victims of sexual violence in our military ranks and ultimately stamp out such violence altogether

00:45:48

her fiance juan has added that quote i see her murals and i say to myself damn this is reality

00:45:54

she is no longer here. On the other hand, murals aren't made for just anyone. That brought a bit

00:46:01

of peace to my heart. End quote. In 2021, President Biden signs the National Defense Authorization Act

00:46:10

into law. The I Am Vanessa Guillen Act lives inside that legislation and went into effect on

00:46:16

January 1st, 2022. This is now a federal law that protects those who file harassment or assault

00:46:24

charges against their military colleagues from retaliation. It also aims to remove conflict of

00:46:30

interest from those investigations by handing them over to independent investigators instead

00:46:35

of keeping them within the military's chain of command. Nice. Right? Yeah. Into law. Yeah. Amazing.

00:46:42

These are huge victories. They were not won easily. And the Guillain's attorney, Natalie Kwan,

00:46:48

is quoted as saying, we literally moved a mountain here. Huge. To this day, the Guians continue fighting for justice

00:46:56

in Vanessa's name. Myra, who has since expressed interest in a career in politics,

00:47:02

has said, quote, it's a miracle that we were able to do such a thing after so many decades of actual lawmakers trying.

00:47:11

End quote. Wow. Yeah. And she also says, quote, Vanessa's always been, I think, the bravest of all of us. She had a lot of courage. The advice she used to give me was,

00:47:22

if you want something, go for it. And that's the story of the tragic and senseless death

00:47:29

of Vanessa Guillen and the movement that tragedy inspired. Holy shit. Right? Oh, my God.

00:47:38

Yeah. Yeah. So sad that something so traumatic and awful has to happen for something to be put into motion that shouldn't even have to be a second thought.

00:47:52

It just makes me look back on that summer of 2020 and it was like something cracked open in the realest way.

00:48:00

Never forget. Like, do you remember that Ariel shot of fucking Hollywood Boulevard and all those people marching because of George Floyd being murdered by the police and people just being like, yeah, no, we're not.

00:48:16

Enough. Enough. Yeah, no. Like, all of that energy that people have had, like, in their minds and hearts, I think genuinely, but didn't know where to put it.

00:48:26

Right. It's like suddenly people are figuring out where to put it. people are figuring out where it goes and how to place it and that they can do it.

00:48:33

Yeah. And like that idea that just that mom being like, I'll shut this fucking army base down.

00:48:39

Yeah. She did. It got turned into a law. They no longer get to be the investigators if the investigation is about like their boys.

00:48:48

They changed the name of the fucking base. The base. That's, I mean, that's the energy we all need to put into.

00:48:56

Into all of it. Activism. Yeah. And all of it. My God. Incredible. Great story. Great telling of it.

00:49:02

Thank you. Real tip of the hat to Alejandra Keck and Hannah Crichton and Maren McClashen,

00:49:09

because they do really hard work finding these stories. For me, after eight years,

00:49:15

we do a lot of digging. And I always say things like, please try to find me one that has something

00:49:21

at the end where it gives people a direction to look toward. And like, what a perfect example.

00:49:27

Yeah. Of one of those kinds of stories. Or I'll say to them, I don't know if I should do that one.

00:49:32

That one's rough. And then they're like, if you tell it this way, or if you do it the way you do it, it's an important story to tell.

00:49:39

And that definitely helps me when we do some really fucked up stories like that.

00:49:43

They help us. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.

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Goodbye. I have one that's not like that at all. Are we about to take a left turn?

00:52:59

I mean, the leftist turn. I'm really glad there's some ad break in between our stories to just kind of balance it out a little bit.

00:53:08

you know ad break goes here yeah if you ever get mad at the ad breaks like sometimes we need them

00:53:13

so true also this is a free podcast okay so well i'm getting mad at people why am i getting we're

00:53:21

just it's where our emotions are high okay today i'm going to cover the heist of one of history's

00:53:27

most revered works of art did you know that the mona lisa got fucking stolen before no i did not

00:53:34

I can't tell you. That's not true. It's so true. And this is so interesting to me because this theft, the stealing of the Mona Lisa, turned

00:53:44

it into what it is today. The popularity that has today is a direct result, some would say, of this theft.

00:53:51

Because the only people who thought this was a masterpiece back then were a niche group of Renaissance art scholars beginning in the 1860s which was 300 years after it was painted But the general public was like yeah whatever Weren that interested

00:54:06

in it? She's not even wearing mascara. I don't want to look at that picture. Who is she? And

00:54:10

where are her eyebrows? Is a direct quote. Why is she looking at me like that? From the 1700s.

00:54:14

Where are her eyebrows? She's not even snatched. Okay. It was so low on the popularity list when

00:54:23

it was in the Louvre that it took a full 28 hours before anyone even noticed it had been stolen.

00:54:28

Oh my God. In 1911. So if it wasn't for the media sensation that this theft generated,

00:54:35

the Mona Lisa may have just been another walk by in the Louvre. I love this. I love when the internet explained to us why we like or love things.

00:54:45

Yeah. Or like you should stop loving it because here's the story behind it. Right. The etymology.

00:54:51

Yes. You know, stop buying Kellogg's because of this. You got it. Oh, yeah. You know, whatever it is.

00:54:55

Did you see their little stock ticker is going straight down into hell? Like people are boycotting the living fuck out of Kellogg's.

00:55:03

It's great. Love it. By the way, Cheerios is General Mills. Don't you worry, my Cheerios hive.

00:55:10

Rise up Cheerios hive. Listen, guys, sometimes the only thing those fucking megalomaniacs understand,

00:55:15

not sometimes, always, is your money and where you decide to put it. Yes. Take a stance with your money.

00:55:22

Boycotts and labor movements are the action required. Because, you know, I voted today for, you know, general elections.

00:55:31

And I said to Vince, this feels like when you're hydroplaning and you're supposed to turn into the skid.

00:55:36

Yep. You know, so it's not really helping. It's helping. It doesn't feel good. It doesn't feel right.

00:55:43

It feels like it's not really doing anything. But you're actually not supposed to, you know, not voting would be yanking the wheel the other direction.

00:55:49

Not voting can't be it because you can look at everybody and go, they didn't do this right.

00:55:56

They're doing this wrong, blah, blah, blah. But we cannot turn this country over to Trump Republicans ever again.

00:56:04

I think everyone understands that. This will be the last election, you guys. If that happens, I guarantee this will be the last election.

00:56:12

Yes. And as pissed off as you are and as valid as your reasons are. Yeah. He's fucking old as shit.

00:56:18

It's scary. and his decisions aren't great. You're not voting for him. You're voting for the party.

00:56:24

You're voting for us to have a future at all. Yeah. Hey, let's donate some money right now, shall we?

00:56:30

Yo, good idea. Should it be a food bank? Brilliant. I love it. Pick a fucking, pick a thing.

00:56:36

Alejandra, pick a fucking topic. I'll look some up. Okay. A nice national food fund.

00:56:41

Yeah. Or something along those lines. Love it. Nice one, Georgia. Thank y'all. anyways this is the story of the theft of the Mona Lisa

00:56:50

this podcast I love it that's what we're talking about this is my favorite podcast

00:56:58

okay the main sources used in today's story include an NPR article written by an unnamed

00:57:05

NPR staff writer and a that was me that's mine okay great good job it was really good it's

00:57:13

titled The Theft that Made the Mona Lisa a Masterpiece. And a New York Times article written by Sam Roberts.

00:57:20

And the other sources are in our show notes. Great. Okay. I'm going to tell you first about the Mona Lisa,

00:57:27

because I don't know how much you know about it. And you should know some stuff about it before I tell you about it.

00:57:31

I would love to recite just everything that's on your piece of paper. I would love to just be saying to you right now.

00:57:38

This is the part in the live episode where you stand up and start giving a lecture.

00:57:43

The Mona Lisa was born in 1692. In Italy. Okay. So blah, blah, blah. Leonardo da Vinci.

00:57:51

He's regarded as a genius. You know, he is a genius. Don't blah, blah, blah. Leonardo da Vinci.

00:57:56

You're right. Not just for his art, Karen, but for his thoughts on everything from astronomy, your favorite,

00:58:01

botany, cartography, and the human anatomy. He was the first one to think of a tank and airplanes.

00:58:08

Oh, really? Yes. Oh, smart. I'm sorry I blah, blah, blah to him. but his central focus is always on humanity. So in his paintings, he aims to create the most

00:58:18

realistic depictions of human form as he possibly can. And this is most exemplified, of course,

00:58:24

by his magnum opus, the Mona Lisa. I'm so mad. I have a great photo of me in like 2004 in front

00:58:31

of the Mona Lisa. It's a really cool photo, but I don't want to message my ex-boyfriend to get it.

00:58:36

So it's not happening. Is it a hard copy, like an actual physical photo? No, but it's like early digital, like split phone digital, you know?

00:58:44

Like the date is in the bottom right corner? Probably. That digital. And I'm probably remembering it wrong.

00:58:50

I probably look terrible. And I'm just like, in my mind, it looks great. Okay, picture it.

00:58:55

So believed to be modeled from an Italian noblewoman named Lisa Del Giaconda, the Mona

00:59:01

Lisa depicts a three-quarter, so abdomen to head, as you know, realistic looking portrait

00:59:06

of a woman on a 30 inch by 21 inch panel of white poplar wood. Those are called cowboy close-ups in

00:59:12

TV. Really? Yeah. Waist to top of head. Wow. I didn't know that. I'm going to be filled with

00:59:18

random fun information that I have to interrupt you with because I love when I know something.

00:59:25

Okay. And those like Italy, you know, you know a lot about Italy. So there's Italy stuff happening

00:59:29

here. Although here's the thing I didn't know about Italy that somebody way back then would

00:59:34

just have the plain old first name Lisa. I thought that was like a new name from the 70s, 80s. It

00:59:39

does give 70s, 80s. It does. Lisa. Hey, Lisa. Hey, Lisa. Do you have any paintings that you like or?

00:59:47

Hey, Lisa. Can I buy some barley or whatever? He begins the painting in 1503 in Florence Italy and continues working on it up into 1519 You know take some time Yeah In order to achieve the realistic look he expertly uses a technique

01:00:05

called sfumato. Sfumato. Smovato, which literally means vanished or evaporated in Italian. It's the

01:00:13

use of gradual, imperceptible transitions from light to dark shades or colors instead of hard

01:00:18

outlines to create smooth images. Don't really know what most of that means, but. I think it's

01:00:23

like you know when you see like a painting of like a the ocean and then the sky behind it and

01:00:28

it's fades into kind of one they don't go like pink blue or whatever like a child's rainbow

01:00:34

drawing what was the nun who would take you to art galleries all over the world sister wendy

01:00:39

sister wendy guys if you need to fall asleep to something go to youtube and find sister wendy's

01:00:44

travels yes she is the greatest do you know she was self-educated that's amazing it's not like

01:00:50

She didn't go to college or anything. That's amazing. Portraits of noblewomen aren't uncommon in the 16th century,

01:00:57

but da Vinci's approach sets itself apart and is seen as a revolutionary piece because the framing is different.

01:01:04

Usually it's a full figure portrait that happens. And images of nobility tend to show off their fancy ass clothes and jewels,

01:01:13

but the Mona Lisa's clothing is dark and subdued. You know, she's just a normal human being.

01:01:17

And that, coupled with an out-of-focus background, draws the viewer's attention to Mona Lisa's facial features, of course, made more striking by her gaze.

01:01:28

Back then, when they would paint women, they would be looking away or down. But she has this, like, fucking defiant look into not the camera, but the painting.

01:01:39

So it's like it's not submissive, which it usually was back then. Mona Lisa is the painting version of somebody going, what?

01:01:46

Yeah, she coined the phrase, bitch, I said what I said. She is standing on business.

01:01:52

That's a new one I've learned recently. She stands on business. Oh, I like that.

01:01:58

So the Mona Lisa winds up in the possession of da Vinci's assistant named Soleil just

01:02:03

before da Vinci's death in 1519. So in 1518, Soleil sells the Mona Lisa that we all know today to the king of France, King

01:02:15

France the first. King France? No. King Francis. Oh. Close. Close. Close. Close. The first king of

01:02:25

every country was named the price. King England of England. King France of France. I swear this is

01:02:31

just fucking matcha and adaptogenic mushrooms. There's no canned wine happening right now.

01:02:36

I know. I'm PG tips, but I did eat a little mini Snickers before we got on there and go

01:02:41

Give myself a little sugar shot. Wild. So some say that da Vinci gifted the painting to King Francis himself while living in France

01:02:51

and after working as the king's court painter. But in any case, King Francis does receive the painting under amicable terms.

01:02:58

So it's weird that the Italian painter, right, gave this one of his eventual masterpieces

01:03:03

to France. But he did. And he did it in good faith. All was well. It belongs there.

01:03:09

He didn't know how good he was, maybe. or he probably did, but like no one else did. So yeah, I mean, that's how I feel every time I

01:03:16

finish a document. Here's one of my masterpieces. Oh, wow. Give it away. Yeah. I guess I'll give it

01:03:21

to you. We can't all know what our stuff's going to be worth in 300 years if we did. That's right.

01:03:26

Just assume it's a masterpiece and act as if. Exactly. There you go. It's held at the Palace

01:03:32

Fontainebleau, Fontainebleau, but when Louis the X1V, what's that? X1V is Louis the 19th. Is it?

01:03:43

No. I think 14th, yeah. Thank you. The famous one. He's the famous one. Oh, sure.

01:03:49

We all know him. It's Marie Antoinette's buddy. Oh, got it, got it. Boyfriend. BFF.

01:03:55

Sorry. I'm going to stop talking. I've gone off the rails. Sorry. We both have. It was a tense first

01:04:01

half of the show. So much emotion. Yeah. So much rage in my spinal fluid right now. Yeah. I'm

01:04:08

trying to work it out other ways. Great. Let's do it. So he comes to power. He moves the painting

01:04:13

to the Palace of Versailles. And then in 1797, towards the end of the French Revolution, the

01:04:18

Mona Lisa is finally moved to the Louvre, where it remains today. There. Told you about the Mona

01:04:23

Lisa. Let me tell you about the Louvre real quick. Okay. Just a little bit. Not much. First

01:04:28

opened in August 10th, 1793. It's a national museum located in Paris, France, blah, blah, blah.

01:04:34

I took a nap inside of it once. No. Yeah. Get your blood sugar checked, everyone.

01:04:40

24 year old Georgia was just like, I don't know why I'm tired all the time. And then like,

01:04:45

there's a marble bench over here in the salcove. I'm going to take a nap there. And I did.

01:04:50

You did it? It was a great nap. How long for, would you say? I'd say a good 20 minutes.

01:04:57

It was just short for me. And like the echoing of the people, there were, you know, there were a lot of people.

01:05:02

Yeah. The echoing of their voices in the marble chamber I was in was really soothing and calming.

01:05:08

It was nice. Ooh, that's like a nice white noise. Yeah, it was a good nap. The museum is nearly 73,000 square meters of exhibition space.

01:05:16

Blah, blah, blah. Vast collection of historic works makes it one of the most renowned art displays in the world.

01:05:22

Have you been? You've been. To the Lure. To the Louvre. Oui, bien sûr. But I didn't, I was very disappointed when I saw the Mona Lisa because it's so small.

01:05:31

It's so much smaller than you think it's going to be. It's tiny baby. And then you kind of can't get close to it because everybody loves Mona.

01:05:38

Right, right. So today the Louvre is protected by a vast network of guards, of course, a highly advanced

01:05:45

security system. But in the early 1900s, security for the museum was incredibly lax, even when taking the lack

01:05:51

of modern technology into account. They were chill. They were casual They French Yeah they French The public are admitted to enter and exit the museum without undergoing any sort of search And an ongoing photography project conducted by the museum at the time allows for hired photographers to grab a painting off the wall bring it upstairs to the roof

01:06:11

Because that's where they can clearly get a good photograph of it under the sun.

01:06:16

Photograph it and throw it off. Are you fucking joking me? Hey, grab whatever you need.

01:06:21

Let's get these catalog, you know. You should wear gloves, but don't worry about it.

01:06:25

That's no big deal. Right, right. And there's perhaps no person who understands this lack of security that the Louvre has

01:06:32

and the vulnerabilities more than a handyman named Vincenzo Perugia. Here he is.

01:06:40

Love him. Let me tell you about him. This is just like a bunch of fucking stories about random things, and they're all going

01:06:45

to come together. It's going to lace right together. It's going to pop. Born on October 8th, 1881 in Domenza, Varisi, Italy.

01:06:54

He's Italian. Say that again. Domenza, Varisi, Italy. Okay. Vincenzo is an Italian patriot at heart, but as a young man, he moves to France in the early 1900s.

01:07:06

Makes his way to Paris where he gets work as a handyman. And it's his handyman job that gains him entry into the Louvre.

01:07:12

He is one of a team of men hired to install the protective glass casings over several of the paintings on display.

01:07:19

You know, they all have them now pretty much, right? So you don't get your sticky, gross touristy fingers all over everything.

01:07:25

Yeah. This is when it started happening. And one of these paintings, of course, happens to be the Mona Lisa.

01:07:31

So in the summer of 1911, Vincenzo and his crew are admitted into the Louvre's Salon Quere,

01:07:36

which is the now iconic exhibition room where the Mona Lisa is. and they're there to encase the paintings in glass.

01:07:45

So Vincenzo, of course, familiarizes himself with the building's layout, hours of operation,

01:07:51

staff, and its artwork. Like, you know, he's got other stuff on his mind. It's an inside job.

01:07:57

It always is. And he grew up in a working class family, so he was never a rich man,

01:08:02

but he looks around the Louvre and he has an idea to change that. So on Tuesday, August 22nd, 1911,

01:08:10

And the still life artist comes in. He brings his easel and paint to paint the gallery exhibit in the Salon Carie.

01:08:19

He sets up to paint the gallery. And then he notices that the Mona Lisa is not there.

01:08:24

It's just four metal hooks hanging on the wall where the painting was supposed to be.

01:08:27

This guy, his name is Luis Beraud. He goes to the museum guard. He's like, where's the Mona Lisa?

01:08:34

The guard's like, well, it's probably upstairs on the roof getting photographed as they all are.

01:08:38

He's like, that sucks. goes upstairs, asks one of the photographers like, hey, when are you gonna be done with Mona Lisa?

01:08:44

And they're like, what are you talking about? We don't have it. And that's when they finally

01:08:47

realize it's gone. They're like, check the cafeteria. No, she's not there. She's not there. So eventually 60 detectives alongside museum staff conduct an extensive

01:08:57

search through every gallery hallway and pocket of the museum. And finally, after more than an

01:09:02

hour of searching, police find a stairwell that leads to one of the coat rooms. And there at the

01:09:08

bottom of the stairs lies the large 200 pound frame that once housed the Mona Lisa. But of

01:09:14

course the painting is nowhere to be found. I'm sorry, real quick. The frame weighed 200

01:09:20

fucking pounds. That painting isn't that big. I know. And also you're like, so then how did one

01:09:26

person do it on their own? Right? Oh, big guy, big muscly, a weightlifter did it. Or he didn't do it

01:09:34

alone. Oh, that's a mystery. Yeah. So the assistant curator of the Louvre and Benedict makes the

01:09:41

announcement later that evening. And by the next morning, Wednesday, August 23rd, 1911, the theft

01:09:46

of the Mona Lisa is the top news story around the world, making headlines all the way to America on

01:09:52

the New York Times. It brings a great deal of embarrassment to France. It's a country that

01:09:58

takes great pride in its elevated culture. And so having a painting stolen from their most prominent

01:10:03

National Museum feels like an affront to France's national identity. They take it personally.

01:10:08

This is not who we are. I don't know why. It's an embarrassment. Oh, that was good.

01:10:15

Thanks. And again, even though Da Vinci's Italian, it's the French painting now. So it's, you know.

01:10:22

You're like, Da Vinci's Italian, so who cares? No. So even though the Mona Lisa wasn't the Louvre's most popular piece,

01:10:30

the buzz of it being stolen helps grow its popularity, then the French want answers.

01:10:35

So meanwhile, with the country in a frenzy and the world abuzz, the modest young handyman,

01:10:40

Vincenzo Perugia, is holding on to the Mona Lisa. He fucking stole it. He did it. It's in his one

01:10:49

room hotel apartment in Paris, a mere five kilometers from the Louvre. And I don't think

01:10:55

he expected it to be such a frenzy and such a big deal because he didn't steal the most famous

01:11:00

painting there. He didn't even steal a large painting. So he's kind of flummoxed and he's

01:11:05

like, well, I guess I can't sell this right now. So he puts it in the false bottom of a trunk in

01:11:09

his apartment and bides his time until he can sell it. And he knows he's going to make a ton

01:11:14

of cash once he does sell it. And so he writes his father and he's like, yo, soon all our family

01:11:20

troubles will be over. But this is where it breaks down for me with like thieves and robbers and such.

01:11:28

because if something is that valuable, a bunch of people give a shit about it. That's kind of the general rule, especially things like this.

01:11:36

Yeah. So like you have a fencer that can trade this and like, you know, the person.

01:11:43

No, he's just guessing. He's just crossed his fingers and hoping. He's like hoping that he someday meets a like nefarious art collector, you know?

01:11:53

Yeah. That's a good point. It's like, don't steal something that you think is worthless that other people don't unless you have.

01:12:00

a buyer already. Yeah. You need step two in the plan or the plan. There is no plan. Right. Exactly.

01:12:07

So, yeah, he just holds on to it. He just like drums up evidence by writing to his dad that he's

01:12:12

going to come into money soon. It's just like not a good plan, you know. So he lays low and hopes

01:12:18

that the frenzy dies down. All the while, the investigating detectives are looking at what

01:12:22

little evidence they have. They basically know that the Mona Lisa was last seen the morning of

01:12:27

Monday, August 21st by two guards. And the museum was conducting a routine deep cleaning. So it

01:12:33

wasn't open to the public on this day. And the frame has not been forced open or destroyed in

01:12:38

any way, which means whoever took the painting knew how to take apart the frame. So they know

01:12:43

how the Mona Lisa may have been taken, but their primary question is now, of course, who would have

01:12:48

done it? I mean, suspects vary from JP Morgan himself, the rebel artist Pablo Picasso and his

01:12:56

gang of Mary fucking, you know, rebels. I don't know. And even the Kaiser, because it is right

01:13:03

before World War I starts. Oh, yeah. So, of course, there's no evidence surfacing. And so

01:13:08

the investigation continues for the next two years without any real leads and no new evidence.

01:13:12

It peters out and runs cold. Also, it seems like that list of suspects is like, who are famous people that could have stolen it? Whereas like, why would the Kaiser steal a painting

01:13:22

from the Louvre. It's such a bad... Yeah. Is this where you see yourself in five years?

01:13:28

What are you talking about? Pablo Picasso? He's fine. Why would you do this? With the buzz having died down a bit now, Vincenzo is ready to seize his fucking moment

01:13:38

and sell the Mona Lisa to someone he happens upon, right? Yeah. But don't worry, he's smart enough to know that someone in France will probably rat on

01:13:47

him, so he moves back to his home country of Italy because he's like, they won't care

01:13:51

there. So it's here while he's in Florence, Italy, that he makes his first contact.

01:13:55

He finds an antiques dealer named Alfredo Geri, or Geri, I don't know, on November 29th, 1913.

01:14:04

So this guy, Alfredo, was like, let's just make sure that this is authentic, first of all.

01:14:09

So he calls a director of a prominent Italian gallery, and his name is Giovanni.

01:14:15

And so Alfred and Giovanni go to visit Vincenzo. Vincenzo agrees. Vincenzo changes his name to Leonardo.

01:14:21

just like as a fake name for whatever reason, you know, get it. And he agrees to show these men the Mona Lisa,

01:14:29

which is stashed away in his hotel room. And if they choose to buy the painting,

01:14:34

he says he wants the equivalent of a hundred thousand US dollars, which in today's money, guess how much he wants for this painting?

01:14:42

Three million. What would you charge in 1913? Oh, 1913. For the Mona Lisa? Where an espresso is five cents.

01:14:50

Yeah. I guess a million, a million dollars. Three million. Oh, wait, I guessed correctly the first time.

01:14:56

You did? Yes. Roll the tape back. Shit. I didn't hear that. I finally did it. I finally nailed it.

01:15:08

But you have a good point. It's like, well, what are they going to do with it? I guess they could probably have more contacts, right? Where they like know people who will buy it.

01:15:15

Rape it anywhere it ends up. Like, unless you plan to hide it in your secret library, like a weird perverted rich person would.

01:15:22

And it's very possible. I think that's the point. Someone nefarious puts it in their D-Day bunker and like shows off.

01:15:29

Goes downstairs, stares at it every once in a while. There it is. They agree to the money and they follow Vincenzo as Leonardo to his hotel room They see the Mona Lisa and they confirm that it is indeed the real one Can you imagine like their excitement that they were like hiding It there right next to like a picture of some weird plants

01:15:52

You know what I mean? Just like the worst art and maybe perhaps the best art of all time.

01:15:57

The hotel room art and the Mona Lisa. But, you know, this is so typical. Of course, they didn't move forward with the purchase.

01:16:06

They're like, we'll be right back. We're going to get the money. They call the police and the police come to his hotel room.

01:16:13

So instead of getting the great windfall he had hoped for, Vincenzo Perugia is placed under arrest.

01:16:19

Oh, we knew that was going to happen. I know, right? Because it's still there because we have it.

01:16:25

Because you can go see the Mona Lisa. Because she's back, baby. She's back. He owns up to the heist.

01:16:31

He gives his account of how he pulled it off. The exact details are fuzzy, but we'll go with his later account of what went down.

01:16:39

He says at about 7 a.m. on Monday, August 21st, 1911, he dressed in the museum staff uniform and waits for the guards protecting the Salon Carré to leave their post for the cleaning duties and removes the glass casing.

01:16:53

And he knew how to do it because he fucking installed it, you know? Right. Lips the painting off the hooks, takes it to the stairwell, disassembles it and wraps it in a smock.

01:17:03

he tries slipping out a nearby door, but it's locked. And so luckily, an unsuspecting maintenance

01:17:09

worker walks by and is like, oh, I got the door for you, opens the door for Vincenzo,

01:17:14

and he peaces out. Wow. As time goes on, though, new conflicting information about the heist

01:17:20

throws the exact details of Vincenzo's account into question, and it's still kind of a question

01:17:24

today. Vincenzo claims he worked alone, but it seems virtually impossible that he could have

01:17:30

remove the large heavy glass casing and then lift that 200 pound frame off the wall down the stairs

01:17:37

without any assistance. Right. Later accounts claim that two brothers, and this is kind of

01:17:43

believed at this point, named Vincenzo and Michel Lanzolotti helped Vincenzo Perugia steal the

01:17:51

painting. But these two are never arrested and their potential role in the heist can't be confirmed.

01:17:56

but it seems likely that there was someone else helping. Yeah, true. I guess from the beginning,

01:18:02

I pictured him to have a very strong upper body. Yeah, he could definitely have a barrel chest

01:18:08

as they called it. Yeah, he's like a strong man, but he works at the museum. Yeah, there's a mustache.

01:18:14

There is a mustache happening, you know. Oh God. He's a cute Italian guy. He's like a, you know,

01:18:20

Italian guy with hairy forearms and all the stuff you like. But here's what he does though.

01:18:26

he admits to the crime, but he swears his actions were not motivated by money, but rather by

01:18:31

patriotism. He says that he believed that the Mona Lisa is an Italian work of art and it belongs in

01:18:37

Italy. So he gets on the soapbox about wanting to restore pride in Italian culture. He found it

01:18:43

despicable that a piece painted by Italy's own Leonardo da Vinci should live anywhere but its

01:18:48

home country. So he spins it into this like, I'm the good guy. I didn't do it for money.

01:18:53

You know, you're reviled by probably the whole world. So you got to think of some other like whose fault is it actually?

01:19:00

It's France's fault. Yeah. And actually, Italy is like, OK, they rally around Vincenzo.

01:19:06

They have him as a hero. Hell yeah. Meanwhile, the judge finds him guilty of the crime and deals him a year and 15 day jail

01:19:14

sentence. But given the public's appreciation for his efforts in Italy, the sentence is shortened

01:19:19

to just seven months. If I was the prosecutor I just would have really I would have been like that nice real quick How come you didn just bring it straight back What was the whole trying to sell it thing Right And again the evidence of writing to his dad being like we going to be rich as shit

01:19:35

Not like you're going to be so proud of me as an Italian. Yes. We're going to be rich as shit.

01:19:40

It was not about that. Dear dad, when I repatriate the Mona Lisa, you are going to shit a brick.

01:19:46

Right. We're still going to be poor, but we're going to be happy. Oh, but we'll eat on pride.

01:19:53

So those letters do invalidate his claims of a purely patriotic motive. Even still, Italy rejoices at momentarily having the Mona Lisa back in their possession.

01:20:03

The painting tours Italy. They don't give it back to France right away. Yes. This part I like.

01:20:08

It tours Italian galleries for the next month. And then they're like, all right, all right.

01:20:13

And they send it back to the Louvre on January 4th, 1914. And World War I breaks out.

01:20:19

And so it kind of all goes away. So after his release, despite declaring his love for his country, Italy, Vincenzo finds his way back to Paris, where he eventually dies from complications of lead poisoning because he was a handyman and painter, remember, and all that lead is in there.

01:20:37

Yeah. In 1925 at the age of 44. Today, the Louvre sees about seven to nine million visitors every year, an estimated 80% of which comes specifically to see the Mona Lisa.

01:20:49

Yeah. That's why we're there. Yeah. What percentage of them are a little disappointed by its size?

01:20:54

I think 78, I would say. Because of the high demand, patrons are allowed just 30 seconds each to view the painting.

01:21:02

Who's in charge of moving people along in all languages? Truly, how do you do it?

01:21:08

Oh my God, seriously. Because when I went there and this was 1987, we walked up and we were literally like 50 people deep.

01:21:16

Yes. We knew for a fact we were never going to get anywhere close to it. it looked like they put the Mona Lisa behind some transition lenses because it was kind of,

01:21:24

the glass was kind of gray. Yeah. Yeah. And I was just like, oh man. Listen, we are not saying don't

01:21:30

go to the Louvre. No. Like everything else blew my fucking mind. It was incredible. Go places.

01:21:34

For sure. Great nap, but you should still go. Just. Find the next Mona Lisa. Yes. Paint the

01:21:41

next Mona Lisa. Be the next Mona Lisa. Okay. So what was once an afterthought to anyone outside

01:21:50

of Art Intelligentsia, which is the Mona Lisa, it was like, some people thought it was great.

01:21:54

Other people didn't even think about it. It has become one of the most renowned paintings in the

01:21:58

world. And a lot of that is thanks to the man who stole it. And that is the story of the theft

01:22:05

of the Mona Lisa. Amazing. I loved that. It got stolen. It had everything I love. Italians, stealing, and the Louvre.

01:22:19

Gaslight outside. And gaslight. Yeah. And gaslighting people. Oh, yeah. By pretending

01:22:25

you're patriotic instead of greedy. Did you ever see it? There's a really amazing picture,

01:22:31

and it's of this amazing honeycomb brick shape that they built over the David. And I can't

01:22:37

remember if it was before World War I or World War II, but basically because they couldn't get

01:22:42

rid of everything inside the Louvre. It must have been World War II, right? Because I don't know

01:22:46

anything about World War I, but pretty sure it was World War II. Nazis were coming. To protect it?

01:22:52

Yes. They bricked up like this beehive shape around the David. Whoa. So that when the bombs

01:22:59

dropped, if the ceiling caved in, it would still be protected. It's so good. Fascinating. Yeah.

01:23:04

So where are we donating Alejandra So there is Feeding America which is the U largest domestic hunger relief organization Let do that If you want to do that Do you guys want me to send this to you so you can read it

01:23:19

No, you just did it. You're now the third host on the show. Get ready. Get ready.

01:23:25

Don't go on social media. Don't go on social media. What's the website, Alejandro?

01:23:30

The website is feedingamerica.org. Great. 10,000 to them. Yes. Doing something about it.

01:23:37

boat, everyone, please. And stay strong. Yeah, it's hard, but you can do it. You're the Mona

01:23:44

Lisa. You're now the Mona Lisa. Thanks for listening. We appreciate you guys. And this is

01:23:50

this is a good outlet for all of us. I mean, it really is. This one felt like one of the oldest

01:23:57

hangs. And, you know, I love showing off. So thanks for being an audience for one of my greatest

01:24:04

passions besides the Louvre. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

01:24:22

This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.

01:24:27

Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.

01:24:32

This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin.

01:24:38

Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at myfavoritemurder and Twitter at myfavemurder.

01:24:45

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Goodbye.

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

418 - Assume It's A Masterpiece

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