00:00:00
This is Exactly Right. of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:00
Hard seltzer instead of beer. Oh, they had a BOGO. Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:08
If you live in L.A., you already spend about 89% of your life in a car. So we turned it into a podcast.
00:01:15
On Do You Need a Ride, we pick up our comedian friends, drive around Los Angeles, and discuss what's happening in the world around us.
00:01:21
Cars are very rude to bicyclists. But in this case, it's a bicyclist going out of his way to get in the way of traffic.
00:01:27
All you did was roll your window down. Oh, he almost hit that. It's like a talk show, but going 30 miles an hour.
00:01:33
New episodes every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:40
Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstar. Thanks, that's Karen Kilkariff.
00:02:07
You're welcome. I feel like I was doing a irritating harmony on purpose on that intro there.
00:02:14
Oh, that's how tone deaf I am. I didn't even notice. You thought it sounded beautiful?
00:02:20
Yeah. Perfect. Like a, like a, what? A fairy tale. No. Limerick. No. You know. Might be kind of dirty.
00:02:31
Yeah. It's a limerick. What's your favorite limerick? I should have asked you on St. Patrick's Day, but I forgot.
00:02:37
I'm not Irish. I don't have one. You know that. You have to pick one. I don't want to.
00:02:42
I love them all. How do you choose? Truly, they're all like children to me. What's going on?
00:02:53
What do you have to report? Not a whole lot. Still making friends with the crows.
00:02:58
Good, good. The murder of crows that everyone fucking pointed out after we recorded last week.
00:03:03
And it's like, yeah, we didn't make that connection at all. Right. We're going to drop a lot of balls.
00:03:07
Hey, if this is your first episode, prepare to be disappointed. We're not going to catch on for weeks, probably.
00:03:15
I mean, also, I feel like people, especially in the social media age, don't understand
00:03:20
that pun-based wordplay is the most difficult to hear when you're in the middle of your
00:03:26
own thought. It's for the listener, right? You're not there trying to churn something up.
00:03:32
So you can sit there and be like, where are I girls? but it's like, but you're mad that we didn't think of it.
00:03:37
It was like, I'm in here with all this other magic. Well, you went straight to mad
00:03:41
and I don't think that they were mad at us. I think they're furious. I feel like I used to do puns a lot more and a lot better.
00:03:49
And now I just like maybe doing this off the cuff now because it's- I feel like that's partly on me.
00:03:55
I think I shamed you. Yeah, that's true. Shame works really well on me. It's surprising, not surprising.
00:04:01
Me too. Look, it's I think that's shame. That's why it's one of the big five. It's really effective.
00:04:07
Whoever's doing it to whoever. But also in stand up comedy, when I started doing a pun was like farting on stage for joke for laughs.
00:04:16
And nowadays it's very common and celebrated. So this is just how times change. Yeah.
00:04:23
Get with the program. Us. I don't want to. Or don't. It's totally a prerogative.
00:04:30
I think I'm turning the program off and I'm just going to go sit in a quiet corner as a middle-aged lady.
00:04:37
Your brain? The program of your brain? Yeah. You got to turn that thing off every once in a while.
00:04:41
It's so loud. God, shut up, lady. And I mean, what are they even talking about in there? It's mostly static.
00:04:50
It's all like shit from fourth grade. It's not relevant anymore. Stop it. Let it go. Your 20s were so long ago now.
00:04:58
No one remembers. No one cares. So stop it. Thank God. Thank God. Count your blessings and stop it.
00:05:07
Oh, wait, are you getting religious? Yeah. I didn't mean God, God. I meant like, you know, the idea of thanking someone.
00:05:17
Oh, count your blessings style. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Gratitude vibes. Gratitude vibes.
00:05:21
I'm talking hashtag blessings, not fucking like holy. Oh, the most meaningless blessings.
00:05:27
Right. Just empty blessings. No, no, no. This is all hashtag based. My religion is hashtag based.
00:05:34
I mean, I think all of life is truly just a shell, a shell of what it used to be.
00:05:41
Hashtag keep JK living. Yeah, totally. Hashtag do your best. Hashtag or not or take a fucking nap.
00:05:48
It's fine. Hashtag what does it matter anyway? Yeah. That whole thing of like everyone wants to give 110%.
00:05:54
I wanna give 80 and then use the 20 extra 20 or 30 whatever it is to fucking enjoy my life That right That fine I think my ratio would be I want to give 50
00:06:05
Okay. And then I want to day drink. The other 50%. Until 8 p.m. What are the numbers we're relating again?
00:06:15
I can't remember. I'm not going to math, but that sounds like an equation I can get behind.
00:06:21
I was with my friend, Zach Noe Towers, friend of the show. and listener of the show.
00:06:26
And he and I were at lunch at this place. And it was just, it was a Sunday afternoon.
00:06:31
It was like a Mexican restaurant in Silver Lake. It was perfect vibes. We were just like, one of us was eating a breakfast burrito.
00:06:38
One of us was eating lunch, whatever. And it was just like, oh. But then there were these people at the bar,
00:06:44
just chatting, sitting at the bar, super casual, natural light coming through the kind of high window.
00:06:50
They walk there, I'm sure, right? Yes. They know each other, I think. Yeah. And they're just chit-chatting and laughing.
00:06:57
And then they all decide to do a shot together. And I'm eavesdropping, but I'm like, hey, addict, like, stop listening to that.
00:07:07
Oh, you. Yeah. Yes, me. NYOB. Not to anybody else. NYOB. Uh-huh. NYOB to me. Hashtag NYOB.
00:07:16
Hashtag. Yeah. How did you feel? How did that make you feel? Well, I just felt like I knew intellectually in my mind that the thing I thought, like the longing my heart that was pouring out of me, that I knew that it was an idea that was attached to old things and not like my current reality.
00:07:34
So it's like, yes, you think that would be a good idea. It would absolutely end up being probably a bad idea, whatever.
00:07:40
But just like thinking about it, the waiter comes over and puts down two bright pink shots in front of both of us and goes, these are for you guys.
00:07:49
Like, we love you guys. And we look at each other and start laughing where I was like, it was like he was the best
00:07:55
waiter in the world because he's picking up on my psychic alcoholism and was like, guess
00:08:01
what we have for you? Free shots. Yeah. And now we're going to make it even harder.
00:08:06
We know how hard this is even to be in this restaurant. However, now you have to like purposely say no.
00:08:12
You don't have to just not order it. Now you have to say no. Yes. Now you can't do the thing where like, well, I have to be polite.
00:08:19
Like the rationalizations that of course I would absolutely do. Yeah. And, but anyway, luckily my friend Zach is like, no thanks.
00:08:27
It's so hard. But the thing I think about is that Sunday at brunch, you got to leave and then go like
00:08:32
do things with your life, you know, even though you're just sitting on the couch and watching
00:08:37
TV, it's still like being present and aware, which doesn't happen when you drink.
00:08:43
I mean. Right. Because you I personally and I'm only speaking for myself here, although you're this is going to sound familiar to you. I get up at that bar. I'd finish what we were eating. Do them shots. Say we probably need one more.
00:08:56
I know where you're going to end up. Right. The drawing room. Right. You end up. This is what happens. You're at this beautiful brunch place and you end up down the street at the fucking dankest dive bar.
00:09:08
singing the closest fucking karaoke where people are like, ma'am, I'll tell you what's going on.
00:09:15
Stop singing that song so loud at me. Yeah. Oh my God. Ugly. I mean, thankfully I just don't do
00:09:23
shots anymore. I mean, that's just, I can't. How could anybody over, I don't know, what's the cut
00:09:30
off age? 28? How old am I? 43? I'd say 43. Do 43. Here's what's beautiful about the concept of
00:09:37
shots. It is a communal unifying activity. Yeah. It's like everyone putting on party hats.
00:09:44
Yeah. Right. But then it's like that hat really affects your brain. Yeah. The hat's a little too
00:09:49
tight. That little rubber band around your chin is kind of cutting off your fucking air supply.
00:09:54
I feel lightheaded. Like, this hat's awesome. Day nap. Hey, are you day drinking while you're
00:10:02
listening to this episode? Because we want to know. Here's what we're going to do. Last week,
00:10:06
we just randomly like, what do you guys do while you're listening to this episode? And you guys
00:10:10
actually answered that question. So genius. Which is so cool. So we're going to start a new thing,
00:10:15
trend, that's not a trend, where we hashtag read those at the end of the episode. So comment on
00:10:22
our TikTok, on our Instagram, wherever, and let us know what you're doing while you're listening
00:10:27
to this episode and we'll start reading them. I think the magic of this show is that if Georgia
00:10:32
I just have a thought pass through our head. You guys show up and go like, I will answer you. I'm
00:10:37
all about this. And it really is very fun. It's a fun. It's the very fun part of that kind of
00:10:43
engagement. So do you want to read your people telling us what we're doing that Alejandra split
00:10:47
up some of the answers so that we could read them to each other? Let's call it hashtag. What are you
00:10:52
even doing right now? And that voice. Perfect. Yep. What are you? It's confrontational and it's
00:11:00
Sophomore year. Hashtag. This one's, I supervise a cemetery in Wyoming. I have a lot of cleanup, leaves, sticks, trash, plastic flowers, et cetera, to prep for Memorial
00:11:10
Day. This time of year, I spend seven hours with a big-ass backpack blower on my back, blowing
00:11:14
debris from one end to the other of the 60-acre property. Wow. Thank Jesus for your, with a G, thank Jesus for your, and a Z.
00:11:22
Thank Jesus for your podcast and many other true crime podcasts to get me through this.
00:11:27
Hey, you asked. Love you all. Lonnie. she, her. Lonnie, we did ask him. We loved hearing it. That's that. What a visual. You're
00:11:36
leaf blowing a cemetery. That's beautiful. That sounds like a Wes Anderson movie immediately.
00:11:42
It also sounds like the perfect intro to any true crime series. Yeah. Like, like, hey, guess what's
00:11:48
going to happen to this lady? Oh, my God. She's going to discover something. Yeah. That's going
00:11:53
to unnerve the rest of the town Yeah Not Lonnie Lonnie is all over it But it change her life And then just a leaf blower goes off Okay here this one
00:12:05
It says what am I doing? Hey ladies? You asked us to tell you what we're doing while we listen to the latest podcast
00:12:10
So here it is I was driving to practice to sing in the backup choir for the world-renowned italian singer
00:12:16
Andrea bocelli will be in concert this saturday night in indianapolis And then it just says, there it is, Dan, he, him.
00:12:26
Wow. Okay. I love this new thing. What are you even doing right now? I love it. What are you even doing right now?
00:12:33
The range, the detail of people's actual lives. It's so beautiful. Oh my God. I love it.
00:12:41
I love it. I love it too. It's so good. Yeah, it's perfect. Oh, hey, we also have a true crime.
00:12:46
Nope. We also have a podcast network. That's true. Do you want to hear some highlights?
00:12:51
Good. here they are. Here they are. Hey, there's a podcast on our network called Do You Need a Ride?
00:12:56
It's hosted by, yeah, it's hosted by this guy, Chris Fairbanks and this chick, Karen Kilgareff.
00:13:00
No big deal. This week, their guest is the incredible Tig Notaro. Tig's new comedy special,
00:13:08
Hello Again, is super funny and available now on Prime. Just what a treasure Tig is.
00:13:14
Tig Notaro has been putting out like insanely killer comedy specials year after year. I mean,
00:13:20
for such a long time. This one's no different. We all love Tig. She's a genius. We do.
00:13:26
Also, over on this podcast, We'll Kill You, Erin and Erin are back with their seventh season
00:13:31
of the podcast. I mean, just a day one podcast for the Exactly Right Network. Yes, love them.
00:13:38
We love them. This week's episode covers chronic fatigue syndrome. So listen in,
00:13:43
find out if you're suffering, what you can do, what the details are. Do you need a nap?
00:13:49
What's going on? Fuck, I love that podcast. Okay, so good. And on That's Messed Up,
00:13:53
Kara and Lisa discuss Penetration, an SVU episode from 2010. Their guest this week is JC McKenzie,
00:14:00
who has played four different characters in the Law and Order universe. So make sure to check that out.
00:14:06
It's so funny. Sorry, do you mind if I really quick look up JC McKenzie just so, because I know I will know who it is.
00:14:12
Yeah. Oh yeah, you've seen this man, very familiar. Ooh, The Departed and Wolf of Wall Street
00:14:17
and The Irishman. Hello, Martin Scorsese loves you. That's a journeyman actor, a working actor.
00:14:22
Yep. That's so cool. Congratulations, sir. Oh, and lastly, on episode three of Tenfold More Wicked's 11th season, our main character
00:14:30
is found burned to death in her bedroom, but then she visits her brother in his dreams.
00:14:36
Binge this season right now. If you are not caught up, you don't know what I'm talking about.
00:14:41
Season 11 of Tenfold More Wicked, you have to hear it. Epic. And over in the MFM store, you'll find an SST GM and a Murderino beach towel.
00:14:49
perfect for the beach. You can also use it at the pool. It's up to your discretion.
00:14:53
They're 20% off and you'll want to get them now before they're gone. That's myfavoritemurder.com.
00:14:58
Yay. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:15:05
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro and these are just a few of the stunning stories
00:15:12
I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air,
00:15:20
so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:15:25
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:15:32
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:15:39
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything,
00:15:43
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:15:48
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:15:53
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:01
Hi, I'm Chris Fairbanks. And I'm Karen Kilgariff. We host Do You Need a Ride, the mobile comedy podcast that answers the question,
00:16:08
what does it sound like when we drive our comedian friends around the wild streets of Los Angeles?
00:16:12
Yes, every week we pick up a hilarious guest, maybe run some errands, share some laughs, and our dreams.
00:16:18
Like when Martha Kelly shared her career pivot. I want to become an influencer of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves.
00:16:31
Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery. Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road.
00:16:36
Oh, that's great. Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. I wish you said glass. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:16:46
Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:53
Thank you. You're welcome. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
00:16:59
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
00:17:08
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
00:17:16
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:17:26
Okay, Karen. Listen. It's a cold case, okay? Look. Look and listen to this cold case, but it's a classic 1930s, very strange tale that I think you and I can get to the bottom of.
00:17:43
Oh. And I don't know why I've never heard of this. It's one of those, like, you'd see it late at night on, like, you know, Rankers Top 10 Weird Murders That Have Never Been Solved cases.
00:17:54
Okay So it a skull case from the 1930s and the murders happened at Lover Lanes in Queens New York And the police receive a series of letters written by the killer
00:18:06
alleging he and his victims are part of a mysterious international organization.
00:18:11
And it's a big maybe spy thing. Okay. And the letters say that there will be more victims
00:18:18
if the people who are targets don't give up their secrets. hmm so this is the story of the 3x killer that's the like moniker 3x okay so the main sources i
00:18:31
used in today's story include an article from daily news by mara boveson and a passage from
00:18:38
the book the encyclopedia of unsolved crimes by michael newton and all of the sources are used in
00:18:43
listed in the show notes okay okay get ready to put your detective hat on okay so it's 1930
00:18:52
Here we are. 39-year-old deli owner Joseph Mozinsky is living in the Queensboro of New York City with his wife and two kids.
00:19:02
Unfortunately, he's also having an affair and has a mistress. She's 19 years old.
00:19:09
Immediate red flag. We don't like that. On the evening of June 11th, 1930, Joseph asks his wife to close their deli up while he, quote, runs an errand.
00:19:18
But really, he's going to meet up with this mistress. Her name is Catherine May.
00:19:22
So Catherine and Joseph have been having an affair for the last two years. So when he picks her up on that evening, he drives her out to the local lover's lane spot in the Whitestone neighborhood of Queens.
00:19:33
It's just kind of another standard night for the two of them. They slip into the back seat like they always do.
00:19:41
But suddenly, out of nowhere, a short, thin man in a black fedora appears from the darkness wielding a handgun.
00:19:49
It is like every horror movie you've ever seen. The man orders Joseph to get out of the backseat, get into the driver's seat.
00:19:56
19-year-old Catherine is sitting there watching as her lover of two years is then shot in the head twice and dies.
00:20:05
Oh, God. She's just sitting there in the backseat. Just murdered in front of her.
00:20:09
Right in front of her. And she's like trapped back there. Once Joseph is dead, the stranger rifles through Joseph's pockets until he finds some papers.
00:20:18
and Catherine has no idea what the papers are. She never gets the chance to find out
00:20:22
as the killer pulls out a match and then lights those papers from his pocket on fire,
00:20:27
from Joseph's pocket. There's a lot of reports that then she was sexually assaulted as well,
00:20:32
but some people don't bring it up, but I think that happened. Then the killer forces Catherine out of the car
00:20:37
and marches her about a mile southeast to the Bayside neighborhood. And from there, he gets on a bus to Flushing with her.
00:20:46
And then in Flushing, he puts Catherine on a trolley alone and then takes off. But before he leaves her, he hands her a piece of paper with two circles stamped on it in red ink.
00:20:58
And in one of the stamp circles is Joseph, the victim's name. And then the other is 3X.
00:21:06
Then he lets her go on the trolley and he disappears into the night. Like, what a terrifying ordeal for her.
00:21:13
Yeah, and confusing. Right. Like, what is all this? Yes. And I think she's been sexually assaulted, so she's traumatized.
00:21:20
Yeah. So, like, she doesn't know what's going on. She's too scared to go to the cops.
00:21:25
She decides not to report what happened. But the next morning, June 12th, 1930, a passerby happens upon Joseph's body lying in a ditch near his abandoned truck.
00:21:34
He calls the police. They search the truck, and they find a woman's coat covered in blood, and they're able to trace it to Catherine and bring her in for questioning.
00:21:42
Yeah. Yeah. And it's just odd. She makes up a story about an Italian gangster and that, you know, maybe Joseph had been involved in the mob. But then she tells them what really happened, saying she had been too scared to tell the truth. But the police, because she's changing her story, you know, and because it's the 1930s, don't believe what she's saying.
00:22:03
So they hold her. But they eventually rule her out as a suspect and they let her go.
00:22:08
But without much evidence and having no real regard for Catherine's story, like they don't
00:22:12
believe her anyway, the police, you know, get involved in other cases. They don't care.
00:22:18
Right. So this all changes just five days later on June 17th, 1930, when another body, that of
00:22:24
26-year-old Brooklyn-bred radio mechanic Noel Souley, is found dead in his car. The car is parked at another Queens area,
00:22:33
Lover's Lane, parked in a turnout. He had spent the previous night hooking up with his 18-year-old lover, Betty Ring.
00:22:42
Police bring Betty in for questioning and she recounts a story that's very similar to Catherine's story.
00:22:48
According to Betty, Noel picked her up on that evening of June 16th and drove them out to this secluded Lover's Lane spot.
00:22:55
They're kind of hooking up in the back seat and then a short, thin man in a, quote, dirty black fedora shows up and points his gun at Noel,
00:23:05
demanding to see his ID. The man checks it and then uses a flashlight to flash some sort of
00:23:10
like signal into the darkness, like he's signaling someone else. He turns back to Noel and said,
00:23:16
you're the one we want. All right. You're going to get what Joe got. And then with that, the man forces Noel into his driver's seat and shoots him twice in the head
00:23:26
again. Just fucking kills him. After killing Noel, the man let out what Betty said is a hideous laugh
00:23:34
and then threw a copy of the newspaper clipping about Joseph's death on top of Noel's body.
00:23:40
He sifts through Noel's pockets. He finds some mysterious pages, which Betty describes as
00:23:45
looking like an electric company bill. So like nothing she could recognize is important. And
00:23:51
And the killer then cries out, I have it. Like he's yelling to whoever he flashed his flashlight out.
00:23:56
So then he directs his attention to Betty. we're all assuming, to sexually assault her.
00:24:02
She says at that moment she could tell that his face was pale, wrinkled skin, piercing creepy eyes.
00:24:08
Quote, they were eyes that never blinked, like the eyes of a fish swimming through water.
00:24:13
Mm-mm. Mm-mm. Yeah. And to her horror, the man leans in to try to kiss Betty, but she holds up her cross on her necklace.
00:24:23
What's a St. Joseph medallion? Because that's what she had. Oh, yeah, that's just a little, it's basically,
00:24:28
It kind of looks like this. Like a little pendant? It's like a little silver pendant, and it has a picture of St. Joseph on it.
00:24:34
And I think he's the one, whatever. There's all kinds of saints, and they all help you with different things.
00:24:40
Well, he fucking helped her because this guy was like, he stopped. He could tell that she was Catholic, and because of that, he backs off.
00:24:48
Wow. Which is wild, yeah. So either he was a demon, a true demon, or he was also Catholic guilt.
00:24:56
Mm-hmm. Ugh. But just as he did with Catherine, the killer leads Betty, like takes her out of the car and walks her away after she just watched her fucking lover get shot to death.
00:25:06
How like he didn't just run away from the scene. He like brought her into the city.
00:25:12
He puts her on a bus. But before he departs, he leaves her with a piece of paper, rubber stamped with two circles and red ink.
00:25:19
The first circle has Noelle's name and the second three X. this clue to me is really important because when I heard this whole story, I was like,
00:25:28
oh, he just was a weirdo who happened upon these people on Lover's Lane, but he had this piece of
00:25:34
paper that already had the victim's name on it. So it wasn't random, right? No. Right.
00:25:40
Unless he wrote it after he killed them. I don't know. But it sounds like the way the women are reporting it, this is all part of the plan,
00:25:49
right he's looking for a certain person finding him throwing down like this is his business card
00:25:56
of but with yeah but with the person's name on it which sounds like it's premeditated unless
00:26:01
because on both of those victims he went through their pockets saw their id so he could have
00:26:06
written their name down after the fact and then handed it to her but that don't you think that
00:26:11
the women would mention that yeah yeah definitely right yeah that'd be a different vibe i don't know
00:26:17
It would have been mentioned, it feels like. Yeah. Because one feels like a kind of a murderer going crazy, and one feels like someone with a plan that's executing a plan.
00:26:29
Yeah. Well, the police, when they heard about it, actually thought that it could possibly be an escapee from the Creedmoor Asylum, which was close to the scene of one of the murders, which is chilling.
00:26:43
Yes. So now they have these two strikingly similar stories. from these two witnesses. They have no connection to each other. So they finally take Catherine's
00:26:53
testimony seriously, as well as Betty's. And they begin a more earnest investigation and find that
00:26:58
the local newspaper are already a few steps ahead of them. The killer has been sending letters to
00:27:04
the daily news offices, asking them to print his messages. Wow. Super Zodiac vibes. That's right.
00:27:12
Like the first. Yeah. Yeah. The first letter came on June 13th, 1930 after the murder of Joseph.
00:27:19
It reads, quote, kindly print this letter in your paper for Mosinski's friends. And then it's like a series of, you know, letters and numbers.
00:27:27
Looks like a code. By doing this, you may save their lives. We do not want any more shooting unless we have to.
00:27:35
So it's too cryptic for police to decipher, but they wouldn't have to wait long for more
00:27:39
of an explanation because on June 14th, a second letter arrives at the Daily News calling Joseph,
00:27:44
their first victim, a, quote, dirty rat. The killer explains that his mission was, quote,
00:27:49
to get certain documents from Joseph, but unfortunately they were not in his possession
00:27:54
at the time. Because remember he was the one that they, like, he had burned the documents?
00:27:59
Yeah. And he said that those weren't the right documents. There were other documents. The
00:28:02
killer warns that if the true holder of these documents doesn't return them, quote, 14 more
00:28:07
of Mosinski's friends will join him. Hmm. And then Noelle gets murdered. The same day that Betty Ring is questioned,
00:28:15
one day after Noelle's murder, the newspaper office receives another letter from the killer explaining the alleged situation.
00:28:22
The killer claims that he is a former officer. And this is like, he's over-explaining
00:28:27
in a way that I don't think they do. In a way that liars do. That liars do or, yeah, you're making it up.
00:28:36
there's something going on in your head and it makes total sense in your head. But like real Russian and German spies aren't like, let me break this down for you.
00:28:46
No, no, I think that seems to, I would guess, go against the spy training. Yeah, yeah.
00:28:53
Like number one rule of spy training. Zip it. Yeah. So the killer claims that he's a former officer of the German army and now works for the Russians
00:29:02
as a, quote, agent of a secret international order. like as soon as you're saying that.
00:29:09
Yeah, either say the name of it or don't. Right, well, he does eventually say what it is.
00:29:13
Oh, sorry. No, no, no, it still doesn't, it's still dumb. It's still not okay. Okay.
00:29:19
He says that his victims are members of his order called the Red Diamond of Russia.
00:29:25
And then the victims that he murdered have deserted and taken top secret documents with them.
00:29:32
He also sends along two bullet casings, which match the bullets that were used to kill Noel.
00:29:38
So it's legitimately him. So he goes on to tell them Noel's secret society code name.
00:29:44
And he warns that, quote, 13 more men and one woman will go if they do not make peace with us
00:29:50
and stop bleeding us to death. So it like a message to the other ex to like I don know fess up I don know what To turn over their documents sounds like Noel the killer writes had one of the two missing documents on him
00:30:07
but there's one more document left to recover. And if the person he suspects has it doesn't give it up,
00:30:12
a person, and he gives their code name, it's like W-R-V-A, it's like, you know, random code,
00:30:17
they will be murdered that night, June 18th, 1930, at 9 p.m. And then he gives the location, College Point neighborhood of Queens.
00:30:25
So the night and the time and the place. He's like, here it is. What do you think happens?
00:30:30
Everybody from Queens shows up. I would give anything to be able to travel back in time and be there that night.
00:30:40
Five minutes. You get five minutes. The accents alone. Because it's the 30s in Queens.
00:30:46
The 30s are like next level. the aprons the hands on hips the cigarettes oh my the gestures the gesturing oh the limericks
00:30:56
the limericks oh endless i love that idea that like people in queens are like well let's go down
00:31:03
and see if the spies show up and get murdered like what else is there to do i mean there's no
00:31:08
true crime podcast so you have to do it somehow yeah yeah so they all fucking show up as do the
00:31:14
police. They stake it out. Obviously, nobody. I'm sure he was there probably, right? Like,
00:31:19
they love that. You mean the fisheye guy? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. He's just there watching other
00:31:26
people look for him. Yeah. A Peter Lorre type, I'm going to say. Yep. Yep. Around 2,000 cars,
00:31:34
over 2,000 cars from around the city make their way to College Point, causing bumper-to-bumper
00:31:39
traffic in the little neighborhood. Epic. They were always murderinos. This isn't new.
00:31:46
It's not new. It's not just women. It's not even that special. It's human instinct. Are you going
00:31:53
to do something fucked up? Well, I'm going to check it out. A guy has promised to kill someone
00:32:00
that night in a car with a gun. We're expecting, hey, let's get in the car and go to that spot.
00:32:05
Like, what the fuck? I mean, I feel like that is very New Yorker energy where they're like, well, let's go down there then.
00:32:12
Well, let's just see for ourselves. We're not going to take some cop's word for it.
00:32:18
Right, right. So, but of course, all the hype is for nothing. No killer shows up.
00:32:23
No murder takes place. And the following day, June 19th, the killer pens a letter saying the intended target with their codename had actually returned the documents.
00:32:32
along with $37,000 of blackmail money that they had allegedly secured in exchange for the documents.
00:32:42
So first of all, are you going to tell me how much $37,000 is worth in today's money?
00:32:46
I am. And I have another, I have it right here. Hold on. Because I am on the edge of my couch right now.
00:32:52
Okay. In 1930, today would be worth, Karen? I always get this wrong. That's the point.
00:33:02
That's the point. We've never gotten it right. I never want. Yeah. Somewhere around in the market of $300,000.
00:33:10
Almost $700,000. God damn it. $600,900. $694,000. $694,000. Flushing, Queens, New York, New York.
00:33:25
So even more. Yeah. I think everything was a penny back then. I mean, for real. Another weird detail that like will help us solve this is that Joseph, the first victim, had a month before his murder deposited $8,000 into his bank account.
00:33:43
And remember, he owns a deli and you know how much $8,000 was worth back. Well, was it somewhere around $250,000?
00:33:54
$150,000. Fuck. So that's odd, right? Like that's an odd little thing. Maybe he got a loan from his parents-in-law.
00:34:03
Who knows? But if there was an overt explanation, don't you think they'd explain it away right away?
00:34:08
It might have been lost to time. Same thing with the writing down of the name. That maybe was just lost.
00:34:15
Okay, now that means that both of these missing documents have been recovered, right?
00:34:20
It's over. No, apparently there's a third missing document now because Joseph Mosinski's,
00:34:27
this brother of one of the victims who lives in Philadelphia, he gets a threatening letter from
00:34:33
the killer a few days later on June 21st. He accuses Joseph's brother of hiding whatever
00:34:38
document Joseph was supposed to have. And obviously, this guy calls the police immediately
00:34:44
because he's like, I'm actually not a spy and don't have these documents. What the hell's going
00:34:48
on? And the NYPD expand their search for the killer to Philadelphia, but they don't find
00:34:53
anything. So that evening on June 21st, 1930, another New York publication, the New York
00:35:00
Evening Journal, your favorite. Yeah. Lifetime member. Bringing you all the news that's news to
00:35:06
news. I think was their saying. Yeah, that's what it was. They get the killer's final letter.
00:35:12
It says, quote, my mission is ended. There's no further cause for worry. Oh, he also makes it a
00:35:18
point to say in reference to Betty's description of his appearance, where she called him fish eyes
00:35:23
or whatever. Yeah. Okay. Can you imagine being a fucking Russian spy? You're like diabolical.
00:35:31
You're a murderer. You're getting documents and someone calls you fish eyes. And so in the letter
00:35:38
you write to the newspaper, you say, quote, I have no fish eyes. The police have fish eyes.
00:35:43
They have been wrong from beginning to end. Like, dude, guess who has fish eyes?
00:35:48
Such an amazing burn to be like, I don't have fish eyes. The police have fish eyes.
00:35:54
Right They wrong Like what is happening I bet you if they you know training spies somewhere that they just like try not to do a lot of chit chat in the letters to the newspaper when you threatening and blackmailing
00:36:09
Here's a great idea. If someone's if a witness says you look like something, tell the newspaper you don't actually look like that.
00:36:15
It's not true. Work on your reactivity because it'll bring you down. If you get real sensitive about your weird, unblinking eyes, they have you.
00:36:24
You know, that's it. Come on. But apparently not. The end of the letter states, quote, do not let anyone fool you.
00:36:31
If any more letters come, they're fakes. It is settled. And it's true. Some fake letters come in later and they like arrest people for it.
00:36:38
But he never doesn't seem like the killer ever appears anywhere again. The murders do stop, but the police's hunt for the killer continues.
00:36:48
news police wonder if perhaps the 3x killer was actually telling the truth about the secret
00:36:54
organization and of course now on the internet there's people who are like fuck maybe it's true
00:36:58
like it was during you know not the cold war but the red scare was it we weren't friends with russia
00:37:04
during this time true that's more of a recent thing yeah in my lifetime they've always been the big bad wolf sure apparently 2016 that all changed
00:37:18
for some reason. Yeah. You know, listeners, historians. Okay, they search extensively for the killer
00:37:25
for the next several months. They get no solid leads. The case goes cold. Six years later, in 1936,
00:37:32
a New York state trooper arrests a 29-year-old guy named Frank Ingle of College Point,
00:37:38
noting his, quote, queer actions in a parking garage. What does that mean? I need more details.
00:37:45
Just like kind of walking three steps forward and then being all jerky and then going two back and kind of like, what could you be doing?
00:37:53
Oh, my. He's like dancing to Devo. He's a time traveler. Like, what's even happening?
00:37:57
What? He's like, I'm about equality. People are like, arrest him immediately. Yeah. He confesses to the 3X murders, but his story is discredited. And he's committed to an
00:38:07
asylum for psychiatric treatment because that's what they did back then. Straight to jail.
00:38:12
Well, at least they had services for people who needed mental support. Right. So the three ex-killings are thought by some to be an inspiration for both the son of Sam, because it was killing people on Lover's Land, like couples.
00:38:24
Right. And the Zodiac murders. Like maybe both those dudes knew about these murders.
00:38:30
Maybe. And there's a theory that the killer could be related to the kidnapping of the Lindbergh baby, which happened in 1932, two years later.
00:38:39
Oh, yeah. Because of the whole German tie and, you know, some of the handwriting analysis, that kind of thing.
00:38:45
but there's very little evidence there and by little i mean none by little by little i mean
00:38:51
the habit that people who pay attention to true crime have yeah of going what if there is a super
00:38:57
larger plan where this one killer is a bunch of killers yeah it's called speculation and we
00:39:03
fucking love it and like sorry yeah and also it would be really satisfying if there are not
00:39:09
repeated versions of the same horrifying type of man out in the world but just one bad guy
00:39:14
exactly that's a really nice idea it's like very calming but no it's like thinking i think zodiac's
00:39:22
probably multiple people don't you oh i don't know i think they're not all attributed to him
00:39:28
i think there's multiple people yeah once they started yeah because it was like basically
00:39:34
people's first experience would they repeat like a serial true serial killer yeah yeah who knows
00:39:40
we're not going to figure that out today. Not today. I have my own whole story to tell.
00:39:45
Right. And you have to listen to future episodes to know, did we solve this case?
00:39:49
That's right. As I said, some believe he may have been an escapee from the Creedmoor Asylum.
00:39:54
But as the years roll on and no new suspects emerge, the mystery of the 3X killer is still alive today.
00:40:02
And that is the story of the Queens, New York 3X killer. Oh, I am absolutely going to look on Reddit threads for all the people who have done deep ass dives on this, because that is just enough mystery to be like, this could just as easily.
00:40:22
This was a person getting revenge for very specific reasons. Like the two guys weren't connected.
00:40:28
The two victims. The podcast, The Trail Went Cold, does a deep dive, and he is so good at research.
00:40:33
Congratulations. Hey. Yeah. So that's a good one. Well, some people do it for a living, as do our own researchers.
00:40:41
Our research is now amazing because we hired people who know how to do it for a living.
00:40:47
Makes all the difference. I really enjoyed the research. I don't know how you feel.
00:40:51
I think I was good at it and I had a lot of fun with it. Oh, yeah. We worked our asses off on that shit.
00:40:56
So much of my life every week, going down rabbit holes, finding little bits of information.
00:41:02
That's part of what I'm proud of, of this podcast. So, yeah, I loved that. That's a cold case I can get behind.
00:41:09
Yeah. 1930s, man. It's like a time and a place. Yeah. Fascinating. And also, like, it just could have easily been a person who got a bunch of really weird
00:41:19
ideas and took a red rubber ring stamp and put some stamps around people's names and
00:41:24
made some weird plans because he didn't like his neighbor or, you know, whatever.
00:41:29
Who knows? Yeah. Like, he took the first guy out because he actually did. Yeah, that was his neighbor and he hated him.
00:41:34
And then he had to do another one to make, to cover the fact that it was just a neighbor he hated.
00:41:39
Right. Because they would have found that out. So then he made up this whole fake thing about, you know, being a spy.
00:41:46
Yeah, he tried to take maybe a personal vendetta and make it into like, this is an international espionage thing.
00:41:53
So the cops wouldn't be on to him. Yeah maybe Well thanks That was great Thank you You did great research on it Allie did great research on it Allie amazing Jay did this research but love them both Oh well props to
00:42:08
Jay Elias because he also did my research. So he's holding down this entire episode. Yes, he is.
00:42:13
But then pointed you in the direction where you could go then. Yes. Know about it and read up
00:42:17
about it. Appreciate it. I still do research, guys. We really like these topics. That's why.
00:42:22
that's why we have a podcast about it it's pretty interesting and it's fun to talk about something
00:42:26
that you just learned about like you're a lifelong expert that's really one of my
00:42:30
favorite things to do i think that that's what the name of the podcast comes from is like
00:42:35
oh my god this is my favorite murder like that's we don't mean that we love the thing
00:42:40
it's the way it's said that is translated that way right you knew that i'm not explaining it to you
00:42:46
okay wait what Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:42:57
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:43:08
And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:43:17
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:43:24
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:43:31
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:43:35
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:43:40
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:43:45
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:43:53
Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge. That's where we begin.
00:43:58
For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects. They finally admit, we're here to take your children.
00:44:05
The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation.
00:44:12
For others, it's surviving the unthinkable. As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air,
00:44:19
many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were going to die then.
00:44:24
The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
00:44:30
We talk to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it, and what came next.
00:44:36
And on our off-record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
00:44:43
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
00:44:48
Listen to The Knife on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:44:53
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:44:58
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:45:05
It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff.
00:45:11
It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day.
00:45:17
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:45:23
Okay, so this is also a little bit of a left turn. Not that we really have to take one after that story, but I find this so compelling,
00:45:32
and I would love to watch a movie about this. So I'm going to tell you today about the most prolific art thief in modern history.
00:45:40
Who? Right? Well, I'll tell you. In early 1994, a 22-year-old Frenchman named Stéphane Brightwieser.
00:45:49
Now, his name is pronounced differently in different forms of media. Yeah. And some people pronounce it Stéphane.
00:45:57
But I've also heard more native English-speaking people pronounce it like the classic Stéphane.
00:46:02
Yeah. I'm just going to do it that way because I'm going to end up doing it. Yeah, I'm going to request Stefan.
00:46:08
Stefan, I think that's truly the pronunciation instead of me pretending I have an accent that's like French-Swedish.
00:46:15
It would be weird. Okay. So a 22-year-old Frenchman named Stefan Breitwieser and his girlfriend, 22-year-old nurse's aide, Anne-Katerine Klein-Klaus,
00:46:26
the two of them are visiting a museum called the museum of the friends of tan in northeastern france
00:46:33
the two of them are both art lovers but stefan grew up rich and he had priceless works of art
00:46:41
in his house because of that so he has a particularly strong attachment to the visual
00:46:46
arts and the finer things in life he loves like this kind of art congratulations right so as he's
00:46:54
walking through this museum, his girlfriend, he sees something that stops him in his tracks.
00:46:58
It's a hand-carved flintlock pistol from the 18th century. It reminds him of an antique weapon that
00:47:06
his father used to own. Obviously, there's some nostalgia there, but it's also very beautifully
00:47:11
made. Stefan loves this one in this museum. He loves it more than anything he ever saw his father
00:47:18
have. He looks around and then he notices there's no security guard and there's no alarm system in
00:47:24
this museum. And then he notices the display case this gun is in is partially open. Oh, shit.
00:47:33
So he points it out to his girlfriend and he says that he tells her he doesn't think that this
00:47:39
pistol belongs cooped up in this stuffy museum. He thinks it should be with someone who would
00:47:47
Truly appreciated every day. Free range guns. Great idea. Basically, all museums should really be about who deserves it most.
00:47:58
And then they get to take it home. Right. like a library for rich assholes. So basically he says that to her kind of joking,
00:48:06
saying this shouldn't be here. It's, you know, it deserves to go home with me, thinking that she'd be like the voice of reason.
00:48:13
And instead she looks at him and says, go ahead, take it. And so he does. Honey, enabling.
00:48:18
Mm-hmm. And so thus begins the story of art thief, Stefan Brightwieser. The main sources that Jay used in today's story
00:48:28
are an article from GQ entitled The Secrets of the World's Greatest Art Thief by Michael Finkel.
00:48:36
And just so you guys know, Michael Finkel has been on Wicked Words with Kate Winkler Dawson.
00:48:41
Go listen to the Wicked Words episode. It is entitled Michael Finkel, The Art Thief.
00:48:46
That's the name of the book Michael Finkel wrote. He is not an art thief. And also an article from The New Yorker written by a writer named Katherine Schultz on this topic.
00:48:56
And the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So we'll talk about Stéphane first.
00:49:01
He's born on October 1st, 1971. So he's a year younger than me. He's an only child raised in the Alsace region of France.
00:49:09
I don't know if Alsace is the way you pronounce it, but we'll see what happens. Let the French come after me.
00:49:15
I don't care. In the Alsace region of Northeastern France, near the French-Swiss border.
00:49:22
So as I said, he grew up wealthy. His father was a sales executive at a company in Switzerland.
00:49:27
His mother was a nurse. He spends summers boating on Lake Geneva, winter skiing in the Swiss Alps.
00:49:35
Oh, my God. You know, the life, the life. And of course, his house is filled with the finest antique furniture, priceless works of art that his father collects.
00:49:44
I'm getting salt burn because I just started watching that. Yes. Did you watch that?
00:49:49
Yeah. And I'm like thinking about because I just, yeah, I just saw the tour of the house and it's like, what in the fuck?
00:49:55
Isn't that so beautifully directed, that movie? Like, it's so great. Yeah. I haven't finished it, but I'm excited.
00:50:02
Yeah. And that really must be quite something to grow up in a house where you are surrounded
00:50:08
by the most beautiful things people ever made. Yeah. In all time, essentially. And like, when they walk through that one room and there's like old, you know, classic
00:50:17
expensive portraits and he's like, ancestor, ancestor. It's like those portraits that are worth millions, that's your fucking great uncle.
00:50:24
I mean, I can't even. It's your relative. Right. Aunt Carol, Uncle Martin. Look at him.
00:50:31
Can you imagine? My friend Adam has a portrait like that. And it's his like great, great, maybe great grandmother.
00:50:40
And it is such an amazing. I'm like, this is the greatest painting I've ever seen.
00:50:44
Because it's a gold frame, all black. She's wearing black. She looks furious. She looks like a Puritan.
00:50:51
and it is like hilarious, but also incredibly scary. She's a goth. She's an original goth.
00:50:58
She's like an, she's what the goths are gothing about. She's a physical. So she invaded the goths.
00:51:06
Okay. So for Stefan, art is one of the highlights of his childhood. He's infatuated with beautiful objects,
00:51:13
unlike everybody else who hates beautiful objects. It's like a set point for him at an early age
00:51:21
where he really, it was his passion and he really did love art. And also because of that, you know,
00:51:27
rich people have it bad too, everybody. Do they? Because it sounds like he's got some, what's the word?
00:51:32
Privilege? Yeah. But also like that things belong to me no matter what. Entitlement.
00:51:38
Entitlement. Oh, hell yes. You know? This is a story of entitlement, I think. Yeah, for sure.
00:51:43
But he also, his parents expect they want him to go to college and be a lawyer. He's really,
00:51:48
really smart, but he doesn't like school. He is seriously introverted. He has virtually no social
00:51:55
life. Even though when he was boating and skiing all through his childhood, he usually was alone.
00:52:00
He was like crying while he was boating and skiing. Yeah. Just the saddest little skier making pizza with his skis and like trying to, you know,
00:52:09
he doesn't like, he is one of those kind of, maybe deep down he was like a frustrated artist
00:52:15
himself, but he had a hard time like understanding or getting along with other kids. It was like a
00:52:21
mismatch for him. He didn't like sports. He didn't like video games. He didn't go to parties. He had
00:52:27
a little bit of a temper. So it was kind of, I think maybe like you're saying, there's a chance
00:52:32
it was like, why isn't, he was an only child of rich people. Yeah, sure. That can't be.
00:52:37
Not easy. Yeah. Not great for the personality and for the flexibility. Definitely. So he basically
00:52:43
he wants to spend all of his time in museums and exploring archaeological sites, which apparently
00:52:48
there are a bunch of in the area that he grew up in near the French-Swiss border. So ultimately,
00:52:54
Stefan winds up dropping out of college after just a few years. And then I wrote in all caps,
00:52:59
no shame in that. Hey, been there, are that? Some of us have done it. And more no shame moves back
00:53:08
in with his parents. He gets a job working as a security guard at the Historical Museum of
00:53:13
Mullhouse, where he studies exactly how museum security works. And he learns a couple key things.
00:53:19
One of them is guards tend to focus more on the patrons visiting the museum and less on the art.
00:53:25
So they don't necessarily know exactly what pieces are on display. They're just watching people.
00:53:31
Also, the museum security cameras at that time were sometimes fake. So if there were visible wires, he put it together that that probably meant they were real.
00:53:42
But if there were just like a camera sitting up there, there was a chance it was fake.
00:53:45
Same with when I ex-worked for Bed Bath & Beyond. Those were fake cameras, dude.
00:53:51
You know what's not fake cameras? Target. Everyone says that was like a TikTok going around where it like do not steal from Target ever Yeah that makes sense So on the last day of his security job at the Historical Museum of Malhouse
00:54:06
Stefan steals a 1,500-year-old Merovingian belt buckle. Fuck. And is like, talk to you later.
00:54:16
And no one notices that it's gone in any kind of timely way. So like... Something small. That's smart.
00:54:23
Yep. Nothing comes of it, essentially. But then in his personal life, everything changes when he turns 22 and his parents get a divorce. It's a very contentious and traumatic divorce. And when his dad leaves, the worst part for Stefan was his dad took his entire art collection with him.
00:54:43
Okay. So now he lives with his mother on her nurse's salary, and his mother, Mirai is her name,
00:54:53
they're forced to downsize from a big, beautiful house full of fine art to a small apartment with
00:54:59
Ikea furniture. And so that, of course, clearly for him, a true estate and someone who that really
00:55:06
matters to makes it all the harder, hard enough just as it is. Parents getting divorced, things
00:55:11
splitting up like that. I'm sorry. Ikea has art though. They sure do. Do you want three white
00:55:18
horses running through a puddle? You got it. The skyline of New York at sunset. Hell yes. They got
00:55:24
it. A zoom in on a leaf. So actually you're looking at the pattern of a leaf, but you're
00:55:30
also looking at the pattern of the world. Ikea. Okay. Back to this. Sorry. Yeah. Go. Everything
00:55:37
in his life is falling apart and that's when he meets a young woman named Anne-Katerine
00:55:42
Kleinklaus. And suddenly Stefan has a reason to be happy again. The two of them share a lot of the
00:55:49
same interests. They both love archaeology. They both love avoiding other people. They both love
00:55:54
art museums. And later Stefan will say that he quote loved her right away. Yeah. So soon after
00:56:03
they get together, she moves in with him at his mother's house in the town of Mulhouse, France,
00:56:08
where they live, which to me does not sound like a French town in the least. Mulhouse?
00:56:14
Mulhouse. No. It's probably pronounced differently. Yeah. But that sounds like a reject character from The Simpsons where it's like, no, he can't
00:56:21
be in it anymore. Nobody likes that kid. You know, Mulhouse, Canada. You never heard of it?
00:56:28
Milhouse's cousin Mulhouse is in another episode and I don't like it. it's just a couple of months after she moves in that they decide to visit the museum in tan.
00:56:38
Then they decide together to steal that flintlock pistol. But this last minute couple's art heist
00:56:44
will not be their last. So about a year later in February of 1995, the two of them attempt
00:56:51
another art theft during a visit to a small museum in the Alsatian mountains. And this time,
00:56:56
the object of Stefan's desire is, get this, one of the easier things to steal. Oh no, what?
00:57:02
A medieval crossbow. And it's not just a medieval crossbow, like behind some glass, whatever.
00:57:11
It's hanging from the ceiling of the exhibition room by a wire. Buddy, grab a relief or something.
00:57:19
Like, come on. He's like, no, that's not. Because he's, and he will say this later,
00:57:24
he really does it. He like follows his heart. He goes around and waits until something really strikes him.
00:57:29
He doesn't just try to steal whatever. I love the idea of him carrying it out, being like, oh, no, I brought this in.
00:57:34
This is my crossbow that I brought in with me. Yeah, yeah. I thought it was crossbow day at the museum.
00:57:39
My mistake. I'll come back in April. Okay. How's he going to do it? I kind of love her supporting him, though, to be honest.
00:57:48
I do, too. Here's the thing. It's hard to find people that you actually really get along with in this world.
00:57:52
and when you do find things that kind of light both of you up at the same time. But you thought were like weird quirks of yours that no one like you had to keep to yourself.
00:58:01
Yep. For sure. And instead you're like, I want this because I'm a greedy little bad boy rich kid that
00:58:07
has had his heart broken by art. And she's like, I see you, I understand you and I support you.
00:58:14
Take what you want. Yeah, kind of. He makes her go be the lookout. Okay. And then he goes, there's a chair on the other end of this medieval room, right?
00:58:25
And the only way he can figure out how to get up to get his crossbow is by going over and dragging the chair.
00:58:32
The medieval chair? Yes. Dragging it across the room under the crossbow, right? The length of the entire hallway, it says.
00:58:41
He stands on it, unhooks the crossbow from the wire, stuffs the crossbow under his jacket.
00:58:46
Okay. And then the couple walk out. Okay. The high they must have felt at dinner that night.
00:58:52
Like, your heart would still be racing hours later. The make-out sesh that they had.
00:58:57
Ugh. Unreal. How much hotter does that guy look once he's stolen a crossbow off the ceiling?
00:59:03
A medieval crossbow, even. That's a high-quality man. He can steal all the weaponry.
00:59:11
That's an apocalypse, like, husband, you know? Yes. Like, he can take care of shit in the apocalypse.
00:59:16
There's a golden retriever husband. Then there's your apocalypse medieval warrior husband that you're looking for these days.
00:59:24
Okay. So they get away with that. The sex is incredible. A month later in March of 1995, they take a trip to the Castle of Gruyere.
00:59:32
In parentheses, in red, Jay put pronounced like the cheese. Thank you. Thanks, Jay.
00:59:39
Also, I want to go there immediately and start eating the castle made out of Gruyere in my mind.
00:59:44
I go look out the window and just take a bite out of the window. So, so it's a heritage center and it's a museum in Switzerland.
00:59:54
And as they are walking through it Stefan sees an 18th century painting of a woman by an artist named Christian Wilhelm Ernst Diedrich of Germany And he loves this painting
01:00:05
So once again, Anne Catherine goes to be the lookout. Stefan pulls out his Swiss Army knife.
01:00:12
And he begins to pull the nails from the picture frame one by one until he can slip the painting out of the frame and down the back of his pants.
01:00:21
Ew. Well, it's in his waistband. It doesn't go all the way under the butt. Okay.
01:00:25
It's just, it's held in his waistband, kind of like, you know, a little fanny pack.
01:00:29
Yeah. No one sees them do it. No one stops them. They walk out real calm and collected.
01:00:35
The perfect cover. When you're white and look rich, you can just fucking get away with anything.
01:00:40
And are a couple. Oh, a couple's a good cover for sure. Right? They're just like, not those two innocent young lovers.
01:00:46
Yeah. Thus begins the art heist date night practice that they get super into. venturing out to museums or art shows nearly every single week to steal a new prize possession.
01:01:01
Oh my God. I'm like excited for some reason. I know, right? It's terrible. Don't do that. But it's like...
01:01:06
It's bad and they're being bad and wrong, but there's something about the like, we're doing it as a team that's very appealing and cute.
01:01:13
And we're like in our early 20s and we're making dumb, big, like make the biggest mistake you can
01:01:19
then. Completely. Also, this is exactly in the pocket of time where it's like, You know he made her a mixtape.
01:01:27
You know. Dinosaur Jr. is on that shit. Fucking The Cure. Oh, my God. Every Cure song is like their song for sure.
01:01:35
However far away, I will always love you. Okay, so. Yeah. So the stolen art starts piling up so high in their little attic apartment that they can barely keep track of all their new treasure.
01:01:53
and the more he steals, the better he gets at stealing. So how does he get away with it for so long?
01:01:59
Because he does, he basically follows a couple rules that he makes up for himself.
01:02:05
And basically the overall rule is keep it simple. Don't make elaborate plans like you're in the movies
01:02:10
because the more obvious you are, the more risk you draw to yourself. So in Stefan's opinion,
01:02:17
the best thefts are the ones that happen right under everyone's noses and kind of like improvisationally.
01:02:23
So basically he and Anne Katerine always go to the museums around lunchtime. They just go up and buy their tickets,
01:02:30
all normal and natural because he realized it's less crowded at lunchtime. Like people come in the morning and leave for lunch
01:02:38
or come after lunch. So it's less crowded and the security guards are switching shifts.
01:02:44
So it thins up the security staff and gets rid of witnesses. And the only tools Stefan ever brings with him are his Swiss Army knife, and then if it's cold enough to justify it, a big coat to hide the art in.
01:02:57
Mm-hmm. Also, he never goes in with a plan to steal anything in particular. Like I said, he waits until he sees something that catches his eye.
01:03:06
Then he sees if he can formulate a plan based on how many security guards are around, where the item is being displayed, where any cameras might be, how many patrons flowing in and out of the exhibit.
01:03:19
it. And he basically tells himself if he truly loves this piece, like enough so that he's the
01:03:24
one that should have it, that should give him the courage necessary to pull off the theft in plain
01:03:30
sight without getting caught. In addition to loving the piece, Stéphane aims for items that
01:03:36
are on the smaller side so he can smuggle it out of the museum easily. So sculptures and other 3D
01:03:42
objects can be no more than the size of a brick. And then the painting should only ever be about a
01:03:47
foot by a foot in size. He believes it's important for him to remain patient and never like try to
01:03:54
cut the painting out of the frame because damaging the art itself in order to steal it is an insult
01:04:00
to the artwork. He has to either be able to remove the painting from its frame in full and not fold
01:04:07
it or roll it or he's not going to take it. So he has a lot of interior kind of respect-based rules
01:04:14
because he loves the art so much. So I think that's at least one little check in his pro side for that part.
01:04:22
It's kind of like beautiful in that way of like it really is for the art for him.
01:04:28
Yeah, he's not trying to resell it for the highest value. It's like he wants these beautiful things.
01:04:33
Yeah, he just wants to have it. Yeah. He wants to have his childhood back. Just go to therapy.
01:04:42
men will steal art from every museum in switzerland and france before they'll go to therapy
01:04:50
on katherine basically when she's the lookout she start she does a tiny little cough if somebody's
01:04:57
coming while he's in the actual act of stealing so that's how he knows so when he starts to go
01:05:03
for it he just goes for it he unhooks it from the frame or cuts it off the ceiling or whatever
01:05:08
he gets it he hides it and then the couple walks calmly out of the museum they go to their car they
01:05:15
always park in the museum parking lot or nearby parking like where anybody else would park
01:05:19
and they drive away at or below the speed limit always yeah stefan knows that no matter how smooth
01:05:25
his approach at stealing the item was the security response will always be fast so he knows they have
01:05:32
to get out of there fast and also calmly so as not to attract unwanted attention. So they have
01:05:39
kind of really kind of mastered this, obviously, because they just, he's not getting caught as
01:05:44
they're doing it. And last but not least, Stefan never ever sells the artwork he steals, ever.
01:05:51
That not just how most thieves get caught but to Stefan it goes completely against the whole point of stealing art He wants to have it so he can look at it As someone who collects dumb old stuff because it makes me happy to look at my collection of Ray Bradbury books from the fucking 70s or whatever
01:06:13
Like, I get that. Hell yeah. Yeah. Any little thing I see, whether it's like at a vintage store or in a thrift store or like at a yard sale.
01:06:24
Yeah. If it actually reminds you of something from your childhood that matters to you.
01:06:29
Right. That's an antique. That's a treasure. Or brings you a little bit of joy every time you look at it.
01:06:35
Yeah. That's the point. Yeah. My shit just cost $10. It's not in a fucking museum.
01:06:41
Yeah. But it should be. But shouldn't it be? Okay, so sticking to these strategies pays off so well that Stefan starts stealing more and more. And by February of 1997, he steals a 10-inch tall, 400-year-old ivory statuette of Adam and Eve, ironically the perfect symbol for his inability to resist temptation.
01:07:05
and he steals it from the Rubens House Museum in Antwerp, Belgium. So the next weekend, they head over to Zurich for an art fair
01:07:15
and Stefan steals a silver and gold 16th century goblet. Wow. He has pretty fancy taste.
01:07:22
So soon after that, he's never like, ooh, this matchbook. I swear to God, the way Stefan feels about like 16th century goblets
01:07:30
is honestly how I feel about a nicely designed matchbook at the front of a restaurant when you're leaving.
01:07:36
Karen, how am I just figuring this out or finding this out? I feel like I'm just finding this out
01:07:41
through the self-discovery podcasts allow. You love a matchbook. It doesn't have to be old.
01:07:45
It's just like when you're leaving a restaurant. Do you like it better when they're in the little box
01:07:49
that you can take out a single match rather than a matchbook, right? Well, it feels like I don't see matchbooks
01:07:56
as much as the boxes anymore. And it feels like people, I have this a match box from the restaurant kismet oh yeah it's a beautiful little design
01:08:06
so it's like you have a tiny piece of art okay but then if you want to light a candle
01:08:10
look no further every time I see a bowl of those I go Georgia you don't need more matches because
01:08:16
I always end up just throwing away matches at the bottom of my purse because I needed them
01:08:19
but then doesn't your little baby hand go grab two anyway because it's free I'm like you don't
01:08:23
need them stop it you don't need them but now I'm gonna do it you do need them Okay, so after he steals the goblet, he goes to the art fair in Holland.
01:08:33
He swipes two more items from two different booths. One, he steals a 1620 painting of some swans in a lake.
01:08:40
I would love to look at that. That would be kind of great. I mean, God. He steals that while the booth vendor eats his lunch.
01:08:48
Then he goes over and finds a 17th century painting of the sea, and he steals that right out from under that vendor's nose.
01:08:57
I don't love stealing from individual people who probably aren't, hopefully are insured, but maybe not. You know what I mean?
01:09:03
Right. Yeah, because it's not a museum. It's not like, this was donated by this billionaire or whatever.
01:09:09
Yeah, and it's fucking insured up the butt, you know? Right. Yeah. And also, yeah, because now we're just getting into straight up shoplifting stuff you like.
01:09:18
Right. Exactly. But I think these habits at an art fair, such up close and personal places, it's just his daring is increasing with his success.
01:09:30
Because he's just not getting caught, so he thinks he can do it. The couple take a break for a few weeks before they head to Belgium, which is Stefan's favorite place to steal art.
01:09:40
He says that the city attracts him like a lover. and uh so there in belgium he steals a still life painting by jan van kessel the elder one of your
01:09:52
favorite painters georgia absolutely then they head off to paris to steal renaissance paintings
01:09:57
they commit a small heist in holland and two more in belgium it's a spree at this point yeah and each
01:10:06
time they steal stefan and on caterin make a clean getaway but the missing artwork doesn't go
01:10:12
unnoticed. Of course, every theft is reported to police. Police attempt to piece together the puzzle
01:10:18
of who is stealing from museums and how the sheer volume of these thefts suggest to police that
01:10:24
either one of two things is going on. The cases are unrelated and just basically art theft crimes
01:10:30
are trending upward right now. Or there's a large organized network of thieves who are working
01:10:37
together to heist it up from museums. That's all they can imagine, which is kind of reasonable
01:10:45
because it doesn't make sense why these two people can just walk into museums and steal over and over.
01:10:50
Also, they must have some money if they're traveling like that, right? She's like a nurse's aide. So he gets money from his mother. She brings the paycheck into
01:11:00
the relationship. He does not work. He literally sits in their apartment and like looks at his art.
01:11:05
Okay, Ra. Okay, so as police gather witness testimonies, they ask witnesses to describe anyone suspicious that they saw on the day of the theft in either the museum or art fair, wherever they are.
01:11:18
And as they do this, they start to realize no one is sure about who or what they saw.
01:11:24
The descriptions of potential witnesses provide basically rough sketches at best.
01:11:28
And at one point, police find video footage from a French museum that captures Stéphane in the act of stealing.
01:11:35
but the video is so grainy that it does not help them make an actual identification.
01:11:40
At one point, police do suspect that it's a male and female couple working together,
01:11:45
but for some reason, they guess that the couple's age is much older than the two,
01:11:51
so nothing comes of it. They get no leads out of that. And this whole time, the police in all these jurisdictions are relying on Lundgren's
01:12:00
art loss register, which is the biggest, most reliable database for stolen art from all across
01:12:06
the world. And according to the register, over 99% of art thieves steal with the intent to sell
01:12:12
and make money, which is like slightly less than 100%. So it's like, yeah, that makes sense.
01:12:19
That other 1% like gives it away as gifts, probably. Yeah. That's the people with the Robin Hood complexes who are just trying to impress Jesus.
01:12:27
so the police keep their eyes on the art market waiting to see if any of these many stolen pieces
01:12:34
come up and they never do so it's like they just they have nowhere to go so meanwhile upstairs at
01:12:41
his mother's house stefan and on katherine share the small attic apartment and it's of course a
01:12:47
very small and modest space for them to live in but the decor is not i'm sure they're lining every
01:12:56
inch of the walls are stolen masterpieces heisted from museums all over Europe. So on this wall over
01:13:03
here, there's Dutch master Adrien van Ostad and France's François Boucher and Germany's Albrecht
01:13:11
Dürer. All of these names would super impress art students and people who work at museums.
01:13:18
The shelves are stacked with goblets, platters, vases, and more. All of them made usually out of
01:13:23
precious metals. Closets are filled with antique weapons and instruments and books.
01:13:29
Items like gilded tea sets and Napoleon's old gold snuff box are piling up on the furniture.
01:13:35
He's fucking, he took a tea set out of a museum. Holy shit. This is like bigger than like, this is bigger than that. This is some like
01:13:43
kleptomania. Oh yes. Yeah. Yeah. It's bigger than art appreciation. Yeah. Yeah. Yes. Agreed. No, I bet it's now a bit of an addiction. It's like an adrenaline
01:13:53
addiction it's like it's kind of sexy it's do you dare me can i do this i'm not who you think i am
01:14:02
it's i mean it is it is sexy you can't deny it who's he played by though well daniel what's his
01:14:09
name who was 007 once you know who i'm picturing is wesley from a princess bride oh carrie elway's
01:14:17
Yeah. But yes, that's a really good one because he's like kind of dreamy, romantic, but he also is like, are you evil?
01:14:26
Right. I also know a limerick or two. I don't know why I keep going back to that.
01:14:33
Okay. There was a young lady from something that rhymes with cunt. That's basically every limerick.
01:14:42
Yeah. But you were saying your suggestion is Daniel Craig for this, for Stefan's part?
01:14:47
That's right. No, but it was Princess Bride. Oh, Cary Elwes is, you want that one?
01:14:52
Yeah. Cary Elwes is your suggestion for this casting. Here's mine. And I don't know, this is a British actor.
01:15:00
His name is Ben Whishaw. He's the voice of Paddington. And he's been in a million things.
01:15:05
Oh, wait, I'll show you a picture. Show me a pic. I'm a brunette. Yes. And he's very, very tall and skinny.
01:15:11
Yeah. He could sneak out of the museum. Very sensitive. Yeah. He would totally wear like a long trench coat.
01:15:18
Yeah. And you wouldn't go, why is that guy wearing a long trench coat? You'd be like, was he born in that trench coat?
01:15:24
He just has the look on his face. Okay. He's one of those people where it's like.
01:15:28
Yeah, mysterious. I love Vermeer so much. I'm going to risk it all. Like if he apologized to you, you'd be like, okay.
01:15:36
That's fine. I don't care. That's okay. Let's steal some more. What's his name? That's Ben Whishaw.
01:15:43
Okay. I'm going to really quickly re-recommend his TV show from 2022. It's called This Is Going to Hurt.
01:15:50
And he plays an emergency room doctor that's training residents. And it's so good.
01:15:58
It's really incredible. Kind of realistic, like a very smart, funny, sad kind of emergency room drama from England.
01:16:09
I'm in. Okay, let's get back to true crime. So he's got all this shit in his attic apartment at his mom's house, including Napoleon's old gold snuffbox.
01:16:23
He starts to call it, or he describes it as his Alibaba's cave. So it's just filled with treasure.
01:16:29
The total value of these stolen goods is well into the millions. And in a short amount of time, it climbs into the billions.
01:16:38
That's a big leap. Yeah. Right there. The most valuable item in his collection is a painting by one Lucas Crona, the elder, called Cybele, Princess of Cleves.
01:16:50
And that painting is worth an estimated 5 million pounds, over 6 million U.S. dollars in 1997, which would be how many U.S. dollars in today's money?
01:17:02
Okay, 6 million U.S. dollars in 1997. In 1997. Today, 1.2 billion. Oh, no, it's only 11 million.
01:17:11
Oh, ew. Sorry. Sorry how low that number is. I don't really know how numbers works.
01:17:20
Like beyond that. I don't know. Neither does Stefan. You both of you, you don't care.
01:17:24
You're not about that. You're not about monetary value. That's for the great unwashed.
01:17:31
You and him are more interested in the artist's biographies, their mentors, their inspirations, their techniques, their styles.
01:17:38
so after Stefan Steele's a piece he spends hours researching its background he's also big into
01:17:44
research himself with no internet probably so that's kind of like right it's late 90s yeah he
01:17:50
reads books imagine he goes into the background he familiarizes himself with the work in its historical context he clearly unemployed so he has the time to do all of this Whether it his motivation for stealing or the way he justifies his stealing or both
01:18:10
Stéphane is genuinely passionate about art. His mother, Mireille, meanwhile, has no idea what is going on just above her head in her own house.
01:18:20
The couple leaves their attic apartment locked. They do not have visitors. and Marais does not go upstairs.
01:18:27
Every night when the three of them eat dinner together, Marais is totally oblivious to the fact
01:18:33
that just in the second level of her own house, there are what will end up being billions of dollars
01:18:39
worth of stolen art piling up. Jesus. So as successful a thief as Stefan has been,
01:18:47
he has had some close calls. The first one had nothing to do with actual theft. It happens afterwards when they're walking back to their car
01:18:54
and they find a cop writing them a ticket. And instead of his old rule of laying low
01:19:00
and being low key, he actually argues with the police officer and he ends up talking his way out of this ticket
01:19:08
all while carrying pieces of a 16th century wooden altarpiece in his waistband under his jacket.
01:19:15
Oh my God. So brazen, is he getting brazen? Is he getting confident? Is he turning into a different person
01:19:22
like Jim carries the mask? That's what it seems like. And he's also a dude in his early 20s that's just fucking getting away with crime.
01:19:30
So he obviously feels immortal. It's like audacity on tap is what's happening. Yeah.
01:19:36
It's that entitlement issue that you mentioned earlier. It's become big now. He's arguing with cops with stolen shit in his pants.
01:19:43
The second close call is far more threatening. They're on a visit to an art gallery in Lucerne, Switzerland in 1997.
01:19:52
and the two are disappointed to find they are the only people in this art gallery.
01:19:57
So, of course, Anne Katerin begs Stefan not to steal anything that day. They're far too exposed.
01:20:04
Plus, there is a police station directly across the street. But what am I about to tell you right now?
01:20:10
He did it anyway. Yep. Because he knows best. Right. And he can't help it. Right.
01:20:15
So he swipes a painting by Dutch painter Willem van Eilst, but it's too warm outside for him to be wearing a jacket. So he simply tucks the painting under his
01:20:26
arm and starts to walk out of the museum. Bro, let one go. Well, it's like, are we at the tipping
01:20:33
point where you can't handle this anymore? You can't handle your own success. You can't actually
01:20:37
handle this much power. It is intoxicating. And now you're just high on your own supply.
01:20:42
Yeah. And she doesn't trust you anymore. And like, that's... Yeah. You're not being a team player. If she doesn't get to have any input about when you
01:20:49
should or shouldn't do something, then fuck you. You're like on your own. You'll get no small cough
01:20:54
from me, sir. But for the first time in his art heist career, an art gallery actually stops him
01:21:02
because he has a painting under his arm walking out. And that gallery worker drags the couple
01:21:08
across the street to the police station. They're held, questioned, fingerprinted. They both spend
01:21:13
the night in jail. But the next day, they actually somehow convinced the cops that this was their
01:21:18
first time stealing anything and that they will never do it again. They walk away with a slap on
01:21:23
the wrist. What? For stealing from an art gallery? Yeah. Like, and also stealing like an old,
01:21:30
you know, if it's a Dutch painter that's in a museum, that's an important painting.
01:21:36
You didn't steal a fucking Maybelline lip tint, you know? Like Georgia did. Like I did when I was a juvenile delinquent. Yeah. It's a different class.
01:21:47
Yeah. It's different. And here's how you know it's different. You're high as a kite doing it.
01:21:53
That's the difference. Wait, me or him? Oh, I meant him, but whoever it applies to.
01:21:58
Yeah. I want to include everybody. Thank you. However you get your stealing high.
01:22:04
Yeah. So they get out, you know, they know they lucked out. So on their ride home, they promise each other they will never steal in Switzerland ever again.
01:22:14
Come on. Right? They can't quit cold turkey at this point. So it's around this time that the relationship begins to deteriorate.
01:22:22
As she approaches her 30s, Ankhaterin's priorities start to shift. She wants, obviously, to socialize more.
01:22:30
She wants to start a family. She would like to pursue something greater in life than stealing.
01:22:35
And any of those things would be difficult to do with the way that they have to live
01:22:39
because they're actually on the run and hiding from the law, basically. but whereas she feels stifled he feels invincible he's gotten away with so much theft that it's hard
01:22:50
for him not to see himself as superhuman of course so the two fight more and more
01:22:55
and stefan just decides to strike out on his own so he starts doing larger heists alone
01:23:03
including literally lifting 150 pound wooden carving of the madonna and child from a local
01:23:09
church in broad daylight. Jesus. Literally. He doesn't give a fuck at this point. And men who
01:23:15
think they're invincible are dangerous. Yeah. Especially around art. What? The only thing
01:23:22
keeping him safe is the lack of witnesses in this situation, which was just pure chance.
01:23:29
Anne Caterine wants the thieving to stop, but the best she can get out of him is a promise that he
01:23:34
will wear surgical gloves while he's stealing so he doesn't leave fingerprints, but she has to
01:23:39
steal them from her work to give them to him so that he'll wear them. So it's great. It's a great
01:23:46
situation. They had never worried before about leaving fingerprints because they'd never been
01:23:51
arrested before So now that they were actually in the system they would be able to be found if they were to be arrested again Of course Stefan can keep this promise On November 19th 2001 he comes back from a thieving
01:24:06
trip at the Richard Wagner Museum near Lucerne, Switzerland, where they promised not to steal
01:24:13
anymore. And he comes back with a 16th century bugle horn. But they already have one.
01:24:21
What the fuck? So on Catherine's pissed, because she's like, what are you doing?
01:24:26
You didn't even need this one. You're now doubling up on 16th century bugles. You're not starting a ska band.
01:24:33
You need to like chill. Stop it. Also, yeah, you've gone far past loving art. Also, he didn't wear the gloves.
01:24:41
So there's no way his fingerprints weren't left on the display case where he stole this from.
01:24:47
So the next day, which is November 20th, 2001, the two of them drive back out to the Richard Wagner. I bet it's Richard Wagner Museum, but I'm saying Wagner, to go erase those fingerprints, which I bet you was like a final straw argument that she made him do, right?
01:25:05
Yeah. Because the plan was that she's going to go in alone and wipe away the fingerprints with a rag and some rubbing alcohol because he would be recognized since he was there alone the day that the thing went missing.
01:25:18
Oh, honey. She begs him to wait in the car. Of course, he refuses. No. Insisting that he's going to walk around the grounds.
01:25:26
Oh, dude. But what he does, like a weird addict, is she goes in to clean up and he stands outside and watches her clean up through a window. But a man walking his dog sees this dude staring into the museum window and goes, that's weird. And so he goes inside to tell an employee he thinks there's some strange behavior going on outside.
01:25:49
Yes. Thank you, sir. Oh, because guess what? This sir is a journalist who has recently himself read about the stolen 16th century bugle.
01:25:57
He's like, and this is where it was stolen from. And here's this guy acting weird.
01:26:01
I'm going and I'm going to tell. Amazing. So finally, a hero. Never mind your own business.
01:26:08
Just fucking. Yeah, exactly. Get in there. Well, especially if you're a journalist, it's your job to not mind your own business.
01:26:14
You can handle it. He can handle the power. Unpronounced to Stéphane, now the man is inside the museum telling the workers and security or whatever about this suspicious behavior.
01:26:25
An employee looks out the window, recognizes Stéphane from the day before. Not only did he fail to use gloves when he stole the bugle, but he stole it when he was one of three people in the museum that day.
01:26:38
All the old rules are out the window with this guy at this point. So Anne Caterin overhears these two men talking about Stefan looking through the window and acting weird.
01:26:47
And hey, wasn't yesterday the day that the bugle was stolen? She panics. She walks out of the museum at much faster pace than she normally would.
01:26:56
She's trying to get out there and warn him. But as she walks outside, a police car pulls up behind Stefan and they place him under arrest.
01:27:05
she though was smart enough and please keep this in mind for your all of your future heists and
01:27:12
endeavors she had the car keys so yeah he gets arrested and she basically melts into the background
01:27:19
turns around gets into the car and drives home and she's like and that's that for me yeah
01:27:24
stefan's arrested he is now in custody and he tells police this is just a one-time theft he
01:27:31
He doesn't have a lot of money, and he just wanted to get his mother a nice gift for Christmas, so he stole her a 16th century bugle horn.
01:27:39
Of course. But the problem is the police run his prints. They find he's been arrested for stealing art once before.
01:27:47
And, of course, they start to wonder how many times he's actually stolen from museums in Switzerland or anywhere, for that matter.
01:27:54
So Stefan remains in a Swiss jail cell for the next few weeks while the Swiss police obtain an international search warrant
01:28:01
so that they can go search his mother's house. Oh, dear. By mid-December, the Swiss and French police knock on Mirai's door.
01:28:10
They hand her the international search warrant. She lets them inside. They climb the stairs up to the attic apartment.
01:28:17
But when they unlock the door, there's nothing inside. Oh, girl, fucking head shit.
01:28:23
The paintings, books, statues, weapons, goblets, bugle horns, double bugle horns, all gone.
01:28:30
The police are absolutely stumped. Now maybe they think Stefan's telling the truth.
01:28:35
He really is just a small-time thief. But then a few days later, a passerby is going on a walk along a remote section of the Rhone-Rhin Canal,
01:28:43
which is near Mulhouse, France. And that passerby spots something shimmering in the water.
01:28:49
How excited. I would be so excited. What's that shimmering? So he grabs a rake, he digs the object out, and it is a gold chalice.
01:28:57
Come on, Mudlarker. Like the best moment of your life. This is a dream moment. This man or woman, I think it's a man, got to have.
01:29:07
Yeah. He's like, is this the Holy Grail? Ugh. Here in the Rhone Rhine? So he keeps digging, and the more he keeps digging in this canal, the more treasure turns up.
01:29:17
He finds a bejeweled dagger. He finds silver platters. He finds all kinds of stuff.
01:29:23
He reports it to the police. They get out there. They dredge the canal, and a slew of stolen museum pieces
01:29:31
are found from all across Europe. She just fucking ewed that into the water? Well, yes, and.
01:29:38
The police photograph everything that they find in the canal. They return to Stefan's jail cell in early January 2002,
01:29:46
and they show him a picture of a medal he once stole, telling him they know he stole it
01:29:52
and that if he confesses, they will let him go. Stefan at this point of course he been interrogated for hours He been in jail for weeks He completely broken from his time behind bars This is not a kind of life that he can live in any way
01:30:07
So it doesn't take long for him to confess. With each photo that they put down of each stolen item, he confesses to his crimes.
01:30:16
But then he notices in one of the pictures that there's rust on one of the items.
01:30:21
And he asks the officers what happened. They tell him the items were recovered from the canal, and then he pieces together basically what must have happened.
01:30:30
So the exact details can't be confirmed, but Stefan believes that things must have gone like this after his arrest.
01:30:39
Anne Katerin drove straight to his mother's house. She spilled all the secrets about stealing the art to his mother.
01:30:46
So Mariah, understandably angry and disappointed, still she doesn't want to see her son go to prison for theft.
01:30:52
So in an effort to save him, she gathers up everything up in that apartment, artwork, chalices, crossbows, everything, and she destroys as much of it as she can.
01:31:05
No. No. Priceless paintings, centuries-old artworks, one-of-a-kind items that can never be duplicated are shredded and set on fire.
01:31:17
Honey. That's the problem with boy moms. they go they just go crazy they love those boys so much extreme they they make extreme
01:31:27
decisions because they have extreme people hashtag what are you even doing right now
01:31:33
burning that vermeer in the name of your lazy son oh my god oh yeah it's tough yeah it was this
01:31:43
part of the story that made me realize how much i care about art because i was like wait what
01:31:48
That's so sad. It's this part of the story that makes me just sure that I don't want kids.
01:31:55
Oh, God. Can you imagine? You're standing around a bonfire of the most important historical items where you're like, shit, he did it again.
01:32:05
What's the solution here? You know what? You know what? Yeah, that's right. You're on restriction.
01:32:13
Okay, so. But she can't destroy everything. So she takes everything that she can't burn or shred or whatever and throws it into the canal.
01:32:22
So that's why it's all the things that are made of metal and, you know, insanely priceless, beautiful things.
01:32:30
It's clear that Stefan is going down for his crimes. He is so preoccupied with the loss of his art collection that he doesn't care about his impending punishment.
01:32:41
police divers are actually able to save most of the art that's dumped in the canal,
01:32:45
although most of it does have water damage. Although, you know, art that's survived for like 1,500 years, it's like, that's okay.
01:32:54
It's made so well. It's doing good. It gives a character. I mean, it's been through something.
01:33:01
Aside from the works dumped in the canal, there are at least 60 other pieces, mostly paintings that are never recovered.
01:33:07
Oh my God, honey. They're all presumed destroyed. Stefan is so devastated by the loss of the art
01:33:13
that he actually attempts to kill himself and is put on suicide watch. So it's not like put on personality thing.
01:33:22
This is a truth about him as a person. This is, he truly did it all for the love of the art
01:33:28
and to have the art. But it's also his fault that they're all now destroyed. Yeah, that's tough.
01:33:34
That's irony, baby. Yeah, it is. So he is first tried in Switzerland where he's found guilty.
01:33:41
Then he's extradited to France where he's found guilty again. He spends two years in prison in each country for a total of four years.
01:33:48
He's released in 2005 at the age of 33. That's all he got? Yeah. Well, yeah. So Mariah admits to destroying the stolen art,
01:33:59
although she claims she had no idea what it was worth. Okay. But here's the thing.
01:34:04
I know what she's saying, right? And she couldn't have truly known the exact number.
01:34:08
But when you're standing in front of a Dutch master's painting, you can see the value.
01:34:14
That's what art is. It's like you can see it. If you lit it on fire to hide the fact that he stole it, it means you know that it was, you know.
01:34:26
A big deal. A big deal. Yeah. Totally. So it's not just like, oh, shit, this stuff from Ikea.
01:34:31
I better light it on fire, you know. Yeah. No. Although I'd never light that three horse painting on fire from Ikea.
01:34:39
So for her part in the destruction of the art, Mariah gets a three-year sentence, but she serves 18 months.
01:34:47
But she gets almost as long as the person responsible. Which is, hey, let's take a look at that, France.
01:34:55
Anne Caterin gets lucky. She spends one night in jail, but as Stéphane's accomplice,
01:35:01
he never, and this is also very beautiful, I think, for this story. He never implicates her
01:35:07
in any of these crimes during the trials. He takes all the blame on himself. And it's only
01:35:13
after the trials are over that he reveals or that he claims that she was his lookout. So he never
01:35:19
busts her. I mean, the bar is so low for men these days. He didn't testify against me, you guys. I'm
01:35:27
going to text him. I think I'm just going to text him and see if he testified against me. And then
01:35:32
I'm going to call it from there. When all is said and done, Stefan Breitwieser has stolen roughly
01:35:39
300 works of art from 200 different museums between 1994 and 2001. The total value of everything he's
01:35:50
stolen during this time is estimated to be between 1.5 and 1.9 billion USDs. Dude.
01:36:00
His release in 2005 is that he is not allowed to enter a museum or an art gallery ever again.
01:36:05
How do you enforce it? It's impossible. That's the good faith. His picture up in the back.
01:36:12
Like he bounced a check. Yeah. Oh, my God. So he goes by this guideline. He listens for a little while.
01:36:23
But not only does he go back to visiting museums, he gets right back to stealing art.
01:36:27
the first time he lays eyes on something that he loves. It starts with a theft from an art gallery in Belgium.
01:36:34
It ends with a 2011 police raid on his home once again, resulting in the recovery of 30 stolen pieces of art.
01:36:43
He is put on trial again, and in 2013, he's given a three-year sentence. He's released in 2016.
01:36:51
He's promptly put up back on police radar when they find him trying to sell a stolen antique paperweight on eBay.
01:36:57
So now he's actually selling it. So the police keep tabs on him until they have enough evidence to issue another raid on his home.
01:37:05
This time they find Roman coins stolen from an archaeology museum and 163,000 euros stashed in buckets.
01:37:13
Wow. The perfect place to put euros. He's arrested again in February 2019. He's tried in March of 2023.
01:37:22
Hey. Last month. Hey. Nope. This is 2024 right now. What we're in. I'm so sorry.
01:37:27
He's trying. That's horrible news. God damn it. He's trying. A year ago. No, no. You got this. Keep going.
01:37:38
The conviction in my voice, the way I said that. I want to believe that I know. I want to know that I believe.
01:37:45
You better leave that in, Alejandra. Fuck. He's tried in March of 2023. And he's currently on house arrest.
01:37:52
so while Stefan's in prison he writes a memoir detailing these thefts from 1994 to 2001 and also journalist Michael Finkel writes a more comprehensive biography of Stefan life entitled The Art Thief
01:38:07
Finkel's book takes a more objective viewpoint on Stefan's life. Both books make his motivations clear
01:38:14
to hold beauty in the palm of his hand and to be what Stefan remembers fondly as feeling like, quote, the master of the world.
01:38:23
Yeah, it's so weird to think that you deserve to feel that way by stealing other people's shit. And that is the story of
01:38:30
art thief Stefan Brightwieser. Wow. Epic. An epic tale. An epic tale that when it was pitched to me,
01:38:40
and I feel like Alejandra, did you find this one? Yeah, I found this one. Good one. First of all,
01:38:45
congratulations. Because it was like art heists. And I was like, well, we kind of know how art
01:38:53
heists go right it's like three big paintings and Alejandro's like just you wait it's almost like
01:38:59
he was a shock lifter not a heister yes you know and it's also like he took it so he could see it
01:39:07
all the time but it's like friend you could go to the museum and see it every day if you wanted to
01:39:12
but for some reason owning it you know was like the was part of it it's status it's excitement
01:39:19
and it is kind of like, it's like saying this is supposed to be mine. So I'm gonna make it so it is mine.
01:39:25
I will appreciate this more than anyone else. So I refuse to let anyone else see it.
01:39:30
I mean. Or just mine. It's like that. Yeah. Mine. Mine. Mine. Mine. It's me on TikTok shop.
01:39:38
Mine. Wow. Great fucking job. Thank you. Amazing. What were you doing? Were you art heisting while you were listening to this?
01:39:48
Let us know. If you are shoplifting while you listening to this podcast George and I would both like you to know we joke a lot But like be careful Don get in trouble for something dumb Not worth it Not worth it It way worse for you than it is for like whatever little plan you think you Yeah You better off without it
01:40:08
This is not convincing. I'm not convincing myself as I'm trying to give this talk.
01:40:13
That's what's sad. Should we do one, each do one last where was I? Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:40:19
We'll start this trend. We can do a where was I when I was listening. What are you even doing right now?
01:40:25
What are you even doing right now? At the end of every episode. I'll go first. Yeah.
01:40:29
I guess when we were talking about like, what do you do when you listen to this podcast?
01:40:33
I said, maybe you're painting your nails. And someone wrote in, I just listened to episode 423 and dropped my nail polish when Georgia
01:40:41
said we were painting our nails while listening. And the title is, I spilled my nail polish, Georgia.
01:40:48
Love you, ladies. No name. Aw. Sorry. We'll call them Nail Polish Jones. Here's the one I have.
01:40:56
Hi, team. forever listener and not first time writer. You just asked what the hell are we doing while
01:41:02
listening? You promise not to snitch, but I'm okay if you share. I was assembling an Ikea bed
01:41:07
with my infant napping in the next room. I like playing with fire. Kind regards, Krista.
01:41:14
Krista, boy mom. And Ikea. Boy mom. I don't know if she's a boy mom. But here's what I love.
01:41:24
This is such a reverse lens backwards. Like when you guys listen to this podcast,
01:41:29
you're picturing us talking to each other. Yeah. But now we get to picture you listening.
01:41:33
Yeah. I love it. I do too. Please let us know what you're even doing right now. I was going to try to fold this right into a please stay sexy.
01:41:40
Oh, well, we should because this has been two fucking hours. Oh, 222, 222 and stay sexy.
01:41:47
And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an Exactly Right production.
01:42:02
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
01:42:07
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin.
01:42:15
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at My Favorite Murder and Twitter at My Fave Murder.
01:42:22
Goodbye. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
01:42:32
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories
01:42:39
I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
01:42:46
And he went out the front door, and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.
01:42:51
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:42:57
10-10 shots, 5, City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.
01:43:05
A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
01:43:12
I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten.
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And a mystery. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex.
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Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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or wherever you get your podcasts. You think you're in control until you realize you're not.
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As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft.
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I thought we were going to die then. The Knife is a podcast about the moment ordinary lives take an unexpected turn.
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Real people, real stories, and the split second that changes everything. New episodes drop every Thursday
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