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Vital Farms, good eggs, no shortcuts. Goodbye. Hello! And welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.
00:01:59
This is the series where we re-listen to our favorite moments from our oldest episodes, exposing our flaws and reflecting on how we got here.
00:02:10
That's right. And we're also sharing important case updates and giving you a little bit more context as to where we were, who we were, what was happening in our lives and your lives.
00:02:21
The mindset. Yeah, the cats that were in the apartment. There was a lot of them.
00:02:26
Yeah. Eight, nine. So today we're going back to episode six, which was released on Tuesday, February 23rd, 2016.
00:02:35
So get your pen pal and the milk delivery person and your local barista, because now we can all be day one listeners together.
00:02:45
So the equity in calling it a milk delivery person. Right? Yeah, very. See, that's 2024.
00:02:53
Yeah, 2016 would have been Milkman. It would have been Milkman and no, you cannot become a Milkman little girl.
00:02:59
Right. Yeah. Yeah. There's no Milkman Barbie. So, like, how do I know if I can become a milk delivery person when I grow up?
00:03:07
The funniest thing is I don't think Milkman exists anymore. I don't think so either.
00:03:11
I've been in some small-ass town. Yeah, maybe a town with a dairy. My house is so old that it has a little milk door.
00:03:19
milk delivery door on it and you open it and you there's like a little like um what's it called
00:03:25
dial there's like a dial and you can move the dial to like how much milk you need it's like
00:03:31
one gallon two gallons and then it's like also eggs like dozen eggs doesn't it like it says it
00:03:35
on the cream heavy cream yeah you can point to all of them so when the milk delivery person gets
00:03:40
there they they don't they just open the door see what you want to put your order in your little
00:03:44
milk delivery door. That's incredible. I know. Our next door neighbors growing up used to get
00:03:49
their milk delivered. Yeah, on the farm. And they had, yeah, I think they just wanted the freshest
00:03:55
milk possible. And they just had a little metal kind of can on their porch. So it went through
00:04:03
at least until the 80s. Yeah. But now it's just the milkman is a door dasher. That's right.
00:04:10
Right? Yeah. Because deep down, everybody wants a milk delivery person. That's right.
00:04:18
And all this and more. I bet we talked shit like this in 2016. Oh, my God. Let's all go all the way back to February 23rd, 2016.
00:04:28
So, hi. Hi, Karen. It's time once again to talk about murder. Murder. Murder. Murder.
00:04:36
Murder. welcome to my favorite murder hi welcome that was georgia that's karen and we are here to talk to
00:04:46
you about the thing that you want to talk about the most because we do too murder that your friends
00:04:52
don't want to talk about you know what some people are fear-based and that's fine that's the way they
00:04:57
live they want to they want to put their hands over their eyes and pretend like it's reality
00:05:02
isn't happening. Yeah. But not us, friends. No, some of us want to just like jump into the pool
00:05:08
of terror. Yeah. So there's an old saying, you have to go into the mouth of the ghost.
00:05:14
That's what we do here. We are the ghost mouths. We are adventurers into ghost mouths. So suck it.
00:05:23
Hey, did you see that the house from the first season of American Horror Story, the haunted house you can now airbnb that house can we record an episode from there like oh my
00:05:35
god that'd be amazing that brick thing that has like the turrets and stuff it's like a it's like
00:05:40
a gothic yeah yeah like arts and crafts gothic where um where the guy from the law show lived
00:05:49
and like they had the maid and stuff yes yes okay that i liked that first season a lot i did She spending the night there Middle of the night lights off quiet We do some ghost hunting Ghost stuff Ghosty stuff
00:06:05
Was there a murder taking place in there at all? No. Aside from the TV show? I know, no.
00:06:10
But it is a creepy old house. Yeah. I'm into that. I mean, maybe the murder hasn't been found yet.
00:06:16
We'll dig up the yard. Maybe it'll happen that night. Somewhere nearby. Like in the house.
00:06:23
Dig up the yard. Yeah. Just start digging for bones. We're looking for bones. We haven't talked about my new favorite show,
00:06:33
the OJ Simpson show. Love it. That was called. The People vs. OJ Simpson. Thank you.
00:06:38
You're welcome. It is also one of my favorite shows. David Schwimmer. Oh, Schwimm.
00:06:44
Stop it. You're breaking my heart. Stop it. What about when they were in Chin Chin?
00:06:48
The Kardashian family went to Chin Chin. That is so L.A. If you don't live here.
00:06:52
Chin Chin. Chin Chin is a terrible Chinese chain or delicious, depending on who you are.
00:06:56
I haven't heard of it since the 90s. It is so 90s. Like it's where we used to go when I moved here in 1994.
00:07:02
Really? All the time. Oh my God. That was like the place everyone wanted to go. It was like the Ivy.
00:07:06
Yeah, but like, but cheap and in the valley. Yeah. And the idea that they were like, we cut the line and Chin Chin is so, oh my God.
00:07:13
This is where we want to go. Cause this is where like, I went to bat mitzvahs of these kinds of girls where it's like, we
00:07:18
go to Chin Chin. Like I went to camp. I went to camp with the Fonz's daughter and so they probably went to
00:07:24
Chin Chin a lot. I bet because they eat that Chinese chicken salad back then everybody thought it was
00:07:28
diet. That's how the 90s were. It's good that show is great. I love that it's going
00:07:34
off the premise that he totally did it Well yeah because he did. I know. Is the thing
00:07:40
He absolutely did He really really did because that's the thing is as we discuss
00:07:47
and find in all of these stories that we tell and cases that we talk about. Things happen for A, for a reason
00:07:53
and B, the people that do them have histories of doing things. Oh yeah. And it's never, it's so strange
00:08:00
that still the legal system treats these things like it's out of the blue. Or it's like, yes, if a man consistently beats
00:08:06
the shit out of his wife, that will escalate. That things escalate. Yep. Well, you know what I think is really interesting
00:08:13
is that instead of looking into the history and why and what happened exactly and what's the most obvious answer the the answer is then to give
00:08:23
them a defense attorney to argue a fucking fantasy or like a fucking daydream that they somehow
00:08:30
didn't do it and here is why maybe it didn't happen you know or this way or that it's like
00:08:36
or just those huge distractions of like basically they were putting the LAPD on trial which they
00:08:43
It deserved because the Rodney King riots had just, you know, the Rodney King beating had just happened.
00:08:48
But that's like so not even close to the same thing, you know. But the argument of a black man can't get a fair trial or like, you know, that the system is against black people and black men specifically was so true and had never been really broached before.
00:09:05
And I remember white people being like, that's crazy. That's such a bunch of crap.
00:09:10
And it's like, how would you know? Dude, okay. Rodney King's trial took place in Simi Valley with zero black people on the jury.
00:09:19
Yeah. I think it was even all men. I mean, it was one woman. Ridiculous. No, it's bad.
00:09:27
Simi Valley, which is like the whitest fucking place in Los Angeles with zero black people on the jury.
00:09:32
Yeah. Anyways. No, yeah. Not a jury of his peers. No. Just crooked and bad all around.
00:09:39
So there is a kind of like, it was a get back in a way. Yeah, it absolutely was.
00:09:43
to watch it. Like that's right. When I moved here, all that stuff happened. Like we're living
00:09:48
through it. I remember being in, I think it was golden apple comics and they were like,
00:09:52
OJ's running. The Bronco is on the highway and running up to our friend Laura's house
00:09:58
and everybody just gathering there and watching, watching it on TV. Well, I just remember when the, I remember the, when the verdict was about to be read,
00:10:05
it was like, okay, everyone knows he's guilty. He should be, he should be convicted. Nobody
00:10:11
wants another riot and that's we it was so traumatizing the first riot yeah that it was like
00:10:18
it wasn't worth it to see him be convicted because that was fucking scary and no one wanted to go
00:10:25
through that again right so it was almost it would have happened yeah and it was almost a relief when
00:10:31
he when it was not guilty because it was like okay you know what black people deserve this
00:10:35
after what we've fucking put them through here in los angeles yeah well it's it you know it's
00:10:40
just weird though because when you watch it it's such a fascinating thing like watching them marcia
00:10:46
clark and her whole team acting like it's a slam dunk case oh yeah when you know what's really
00:10:51
gonna happen total marcia clark her what's her character from american horror story she's
00:10:55
incredible oh sarah paulson yeah that but her hair is so distracting i just all i can do is think
00:11:01
about how long it took to curl every piece of that oh that had to be a part was that a perm or
00:11:05
she like you absolutely can't perm me or is it must have been a wig no one no one lets anybody
00:11:10
perm their hair anymore. Yeah. Do they? No. I don't know. The sad thing, of course,
00:11:15
is the murder victims that just didn't get any recognition. No. No, it was not. It was not about
00:11:22
them. No. I just can never forget that. I never forgot the quote that like Nicole was almost
00:11:28
decapitated. That's how deep it wasn't. He slit her throat. She was almost decapitated.
00:11:35
He was like going berserk. Yeah. He cut into, oh God. It's crazy. It's so crazy.
00:11:41
And like that idea of how they started the whole thing with the dog with bloody feet.
00:11:46
Totally. Walking up, like the guy finding a dog. It's a good show. It's very good.
00:11:51
And then also insanely cheesy. Yeah. It so enjoyable Like John Travolta God bless him He is killing it He my thing Do you think he was really like that Robert Shapiro Yeah Probably
00:12:05
But he didn't have blue eyes. You know that. Right. It's really corny. There's so many corny
00:12:09
things. Every single line that Marsha Clark says is like, cut to commercial. She can't
00:12:15
say a line without it cutting to commercial. But the best was at the end of the last episode.
00:12:19
Oh, spoiler alert. When she sees them, she just goes, motherfucker. I think that's the first motherfucker on TV, right?
00:12:26
I think so. It's FX, right? So they're a little edgy. When she says a motherfucker.
00:12:31
Motherfucker. She says that about Johnny Cochran. Yeah. He joined the team. And he's, his story's great too.
00:12:38
Oh, it's everyone is. Yeah. But I really just want to hug David Schwimmer. Yeah, because he's such a, he's, who knew that, was it Robert Kardashian?
00:12:47
Yeah. Who knew he was such a great guy? Who knew he was a great guy that would spawn the literal devils?
00:12:53
like the downfall. All those discussions where they're like, you can't, it's not about fame.
00:12:59
You have to have a good heart. Well, I keep thinking about his, are his kids watching him being like,
00:13:04
fuck my dad. I miss my dad. Probably. It's sad. It is sad. He died like not too long after that,
00:13:10
which is so sad. I'm sure. Can you imagine how stressful it would have been to be that guy
00:13:14
in that situation? That guy knows his friend is guilty and has to defend him. He also had to use the phrase
00:13:20
Uncle Juice a lot, which I think is, may have been the thing that killed him. That could have been it.
00:13:25
Yeah, that would be hard. Uncle Juice. He's not their real uncle. Oh, Kris Jenner, killing it.
00:13:33
Oh, Selma Blair. Selma Blair. Do you think she was like, this is the end of my career
00:13:37
or was she stoked about it? Stoked. Okay. Yeah, because you see all those other people on that cast.
00:13:42
That's true. That's true. I love this. They're great. Yeah. All right. Oh, we also have to talk about the fact
00:13:48
that we're both watching Autopsy, but should we save that for? Yes. Okay. I and that I actually somebody recommend I'm sorry I don't have the name because someone
00:13:56
mentioned it to us on the Twitter page oh yeah and it was a man and he said oh autopsy was amazing
00:14:03
I watched all of it and I went autopsy huh and then I looked it up and I'd never seen it you
00:14:08
had never heard of it or seen it I think I may have heard of it but I'd never seen it I had always
00:14:12
just figured it and I think I had like watched maybe one the wrong episode where like he was
00:14:18
literally just in an autopsy room cutting into someone and talking and discussing it yeah which
00:14:22
i thought the whole thing was like that and no it's like it's like case stories from his this
00:14:27
crazy guy like his crazy uh coroner's past and how he solved crimes based on the autopsy yeah
00:14:34
it's fascinating and like the most and also they they kind of fold in like i've watched a couple
00:14:39
now the last time last one i was watching was number nine when i texted you because it's other
00:14:45
corners in there too because they're basically just getting all the craziest stories.
00:14:49
Yeah. I won't give that one away. I'll just let people watch it. It's so good. I want to know.
00:14:55
It's what I texted you. Remember when they opened up a guy? Yes. Should I just say it? There's
00:15:01
voodoo dolls inside. Inside his body? Oh, Karen, I read that as inside of his coffin.
00:15:07
No. Wait a minute. Are you inside of his body? There were foes. that's why I was so upset I'm gonna go I'm gonna go cry I thought you meant like yeah they they I
00:15:21
thought because I read it as like next to his no but yeah that's fucked up okay no and it turned
00:15:28
out the woman that ran the funeral home was practiced voodoo you gotta see her too you got
00:15:33
it she is worth the entire episode she looks totally normal right she has the best hair I've
00:15:38
ever seen and she's a badass and she's basically trying to get rid of all the other funeral homes
00:15:44
like all her competitors and do better financially. So she made voodoo dolls for all of them
00:15:50
and then sewed them up inside this man's corpse. At what point in that whole operation are you like,
00:15:56
I might be a little crazy. Yeah, this might not be a great idea. Yeah, this could come back.
00:16:02
Yeah, what will this look like from the outside? Just everyone, you can be as crazy as you want,
00:16:06
but act normal. Yeah, or just try to step out for one second and be like, if someone discovers this,
00:16:13
how crazy will I look? Totally. That's good advice. I think that is too. So everyone watch Autopsy.
00:16:17
Someone on Twitter suggested, or on our Facebook page, we have a Facebook group,
00:16:24
My Favorite Murder that you can join. Someone suggested that we just do a live, or just do an episode where we just watch an episode
00:16:28
of Autopsy and just talk about it. That's a great idea. They can watch along with us.
00:16:33
Very good idea. I love it. Yeah, that's good. Yeah, you can go on, because it's on HBO Go or HBO Now or whatever.
00:16:39
Apparently there's a lot of episodes on YouTube as well. Oh, good. Yeah, there's like, you can find them everywhere.
00:16:43
Love it. doing it. We're going to have all kinds of events. Yeah, it's also a little dated,
00:16:48
which I fucking love when I'm watching true crime shit. Do you ever go back and watch Forensic
00:16:52
Files? Oh, yeah. Oh, it's like 2002, which doesn't seem that long ago. Please. It's so long ago.
00:16:58
The blouses tell a different story. Oh, it's so good. It's so good. It's so good.
00:17:08
We never went to Chin Chin. We never made that dream a reality. Is it there? Was it there?
00:17:14
It still is there. Damn. Yeah. All right. Ten-year anniversary. Yeah. We have two years to get ready.
00:17:20
Yeah. We'll make friends with the Kardashians. That's step two of my favorite murder is becoming friends.
00:17:26
I mean, I feel like we were visionaries of the shit we were talking about the Kardashians in this episode.
00:17:33
Yeah. Yeah. Maybe not. Yeah. Yeah. They're not going to be friends with us. That's fine.
00:17:37
We're going to go to Chin Chin without them. We don't have any of them. We can order our own Chinese chicken salad.
00:17:42
And this is the first time we decide to do a themed episode. So this theme is Children Who Kill.
00:17:51
And that was I think in the beginning the themes were kind of made it a little easier to decide what stories to do because there were so many Yeah and we were out of the realm of what the one that struck you first and most or whatever
00:18:06
And then now we were just like, what would be good to tell? What would be, how do we do this?
00:18:10
Yeah. Like, what do we want to tell? What seems important to us? So we dialed in and this is an episode about children who kill their parents.
00:18:19
Karen goes first and tells us the story of Alex and Derek King. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
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Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14.
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From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far off concept.
00:19:07
It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
00:19:13
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Quince.com slash M-F-M. Goodbye. Okay. I feel like I always start with my favorite murder.
00:21:27
Do you want me to go first? Sure. Do you want to go first? I will. And this is under the guise we were talking about,
00:21:32
kids that kill, but I don't know if we still did that. I did. Oh, good. I did too.
00:21:36
So we decided that we're now going to have, every episode has a theme, more like a, you know, a, what's the point? A subject. Or yeah, just, I mean, I guess theme's
00:21:48
the right word. Theme or subject. Yeah. So we can kind of like matchy match. So this was kids.
00:21:53
Were we doing kids that kill their parents? That's what I did. Okay. Yay. We did it.
00:21:58
So I did Alex and Derek King, which I don't know about. So I'm excited to hear this. Because you
00:22:04
sent me a photo and I was like, I'm not looking this up. Just tell me about it. So the first time
00:22:08
I ever saw these kids on the news, Alex King at the time, I think he was either 12 or 13.
00:22:14
He looked like he was eight years old. He looked like a baby face baby. Holy shit.
00:22:19
Very small boy. And his brother, it was like a year, maybe two years older than him. Derek King
00:22:24
was bigger, like looked like a teenager. Hold on. I'm going to get cozy. Yeah, lay all the way down. I'm going to tell you a story.
00:22:32
so and i remember seeing it where it was like you know kids who kill and whatever and they'd
00:22:38
killed their father so the deal was um house was on fire firemen go to put the the fire the house
00:22:46
out they they put the fire out and go in and then in the other part of the house that isn't burnt
00:22:51
they find a dead body and they know that it's dead from not from the fire but they can see that
00:22:57
it has head wounds and so um the next day uh alex and derrick king turned themselves into the
00:23:05
sheriff's tell me their age again 12 and 13 holy shit yeah babies and you got to see the picture
00:23:11
the one mugshot of alex king he's just got zits all over his forehead he just is like
00:23:16
it's a child child it's like sixth grade seventh grade yeah um and so they turn themselves in
00:23:22
and they say that they had run away from home because their dad was too strict to their dad's friend, Ricky Chavez's house.
00:23:33
And they stayed there for a week and they knew that he was gonna, they knew they were gonna get punished
00:23:39
when they went back home. So they decided to kill him, to avoid being punished. Because they're children.
00:23:45
Because they're children. And also they ran away because their dad. So what had happened,
00:23:51
it's a very sad story, of course, But it's like the mother and father have Alex and Derek, Alex, and then she has twins and then she leaves home.
00:24:00
all four boys, leaves the husband and just bails. I will never be able to wrap my head around moms who just later,
00:24:06
any dads too, but you know. Well, I, and in this story particularly, there's a lot of things I wish I knew more about.
00:24:14
And I read, I read every single article on Google when I put their names in, it just went down until I got to,
00:24:21
there was an article on the NAMBLA website, which is the National Association for Man Boy Love or whatever.
00:24:27
That's a thing you can click on? You can click on it. I didn't realize until after I clicked and read the story. And at the end,
00:24:33
it was like a person that was trying to rationalize. I was like, oh my God, where have I gone?
00:24:38
Because I just kept on reading stories. I've never come across that in all my weird.
00:24:42
It was like the 10th article. And you can click on it. Do you think that the government is
00:24:46
tracking you now? 100%. And they should be. But it was the only, the defense I have is that it was
00:24:53
just the next article down. Like I wasn't checking it. Did it say anything different or anything inflammatory?
00:24:59
Well, so it told this part of the story. It is inflammatory, but it's that creepy, creepy thing of, so they ran to Ricky Chavez's house.
00:25:12
And the reason they'd like to go there is because he let them smoke pot and play video games.
00:25:16
And he was molesting Alex. And he had convinced Alex that they were in love. This guy was 39.
00:25:24
39. That they were in love and that Alex was gay. And that, and so this herein starts the soap opera of this story because.
00:25:33
Jesus, I was not expecting that angle. Yeah, it's rough. So the Nambla article, of course, is like, people don't understand these relationships or whatever.
00:25:41
I was like, wait, what? Hold on. Yeah, it's creepy. But so that guy drove them to the sheriff's department to turn themselves in.
00:25:51
But then they got him and they were like, so what exactly are you doing here? and then it turns out so he gets held for like uh aiding and abetting essentially you know like
00:26:01
did he have anything okay but he knew that they had killed his dad when they were yes okay so the
00:26:07
two those the two young boys confess and they have their confessions taped and they're very
00:26:11
detailed did you watch them can you watch them you can't probably no it's tape recorder
00:26:15
from what i understand okay um but then a little while later they recant like a couple months later
00:26:24
And I think that's probably when they got lawyers and when the lawyers like put everything out and were like, hold on a second.
00:26:30
Yeah. You ran to the molester's house to hang out the day after you killed your father.
00:26:36
What's really going on here? And then they came back and said that we were trying to cover for Ricky.
00:26:42
It turned out he killed our father. And this whole thing was his idea. Bullshit.
00:26:46
And that's where it all started. And I remember when I saw that news story, it was like he was based.
00:26:53
they were basically presented as like these evil children like you immediately believed
00:26:58
that they that you it was such a bias it was such a weird bias they were like he has and this young
00:27:05
one has a relationship with this guy as if that kid is somehow perpetuating the relationship yeah
00:27:10
or his fault that yes or he's seducing the older man yeah because they're they're basically trying
00:27:16
to sell the story of like these two devil children oh no when really as we all know it's like this
00:27:22
guy was in their life. So clearly Alex was being groomed for a long time and you know, it's just
00:27:27
the grossest thing. So basically when the mom bailed, the dad after a little while was like,
00:27:33
I can't handle four boys by myself. So they all got put in like, Alex went to a foster home,
00:27:40
the twins went somewhere else. And then the older boy went and lived with the principal of the local
00:27:44
high school. That can't be chill. I don't think so. And then he stayed there until like two months
00:27:51
before this murder. So, and Alex came back from the foster home. I can't get any information
00:27:55
about what happened, but they said it didn't, like it didn't work out or something.
00:27:59
But we all know what foster homes can be like. Sure. So, but Alex was doing good
00:28:06
at home with his dad. Then Derek showed up. And then two months later, the dad's murdered.
00:28:10
Do we know, did the mom come back for the trial? Yeah. The mom not only came back
00:28:15
for the trial, when they, they basically were found guilty I think they were found guilty
00:28:23
of second degree murder or something. The mom showed up. They hit him with something
00:28:29
and then set his body on fire? Baseball bat. Son of a bitch. Derek hit him with the baseball bat.
00:28:33
Alex said it was his idea. And then they lit the house on fire because they thought
00:28:37
they were going to get rid of all the evidence. If you're going to kill someone and then light their body on fire,
00:28:42
if they don't have charred lungs, it's clear that they didn't die in the fire, everyone.
00:28:47
Yeah, but you can't just burn somebody. No. It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work that way.
00:28:50
And I mean, yeah. That's something people had to get away with. Yeah. Like almost kill them so that they inhale the smoke when they know.
00:28:57
Okay. I mean, yeah, that's one way, but still they might find stuff on the body.
00:29:02
You can't get away with killing someone. It's very difficult to get away with killing someone.
00:29:06
So they also brought the guy up on charges, all kinds of charges. They had like the aiding and bedding thing and they had on kidnapping.
00:29:13
And of course, like 10 counts of molestation. He had already, he was a convicted pedophile.
00:29:18
Of course he was. How was he the family friend? Like that's what I want to know.
00:29:22
This is why you don't make friends with people at all. Ever. But so, so anyway, they have two, like, they have two trials.
00:29:32
The two boys are tried. And then this guy is Ricky Gervais is tried. We just start spreading this rumor.
00:29:40
Yeah, that'd be bad. That'd be bad. But they, so they try the adult man first and then seal his, the results.
00:29:48
and so when the boys are tried we don't know whether or not that jury found that guy guilty
00:29:53
because it influence the jury yeah because they basically were both oh because sorry so like three months after they made that confession yeah then they got the lawyer they lawyered up right they basically came back and
00:30:05
said um he did it we were covering for him and this whole thing was his plan and we were in the
00:30:10
trunk the whole time and he did all of it and he was like nope yes and so that guy's lawyer has to
00:30:16
represent a child molester who is is being accused of murder by children like the whole thing is so
00:30:24
crazy. This is what I'm saying about defense, like defense attorneys should look, I wish the idea was
00:30:29
for everyone together to look for the truth instead of making some shit up. Yeah. Or like,
00:30:36
here's a technicality and this is why, you know, I can't imagine defense attorneys like themselves
00:30:42
that much. No. Well, it must be really hard. But then there are, they're doing it for those people
00:30:47
that are like a few innocent. Right. But this guy was so not innocent. But the weird thing was,
00:30:54
they didn't convict him on the 10 molestation charges. Wow. They didn't, like, they basically brought more charges against him.
00:31:02
And then, like, the thing he finally got convicted for was, like, was, like, holding a minor against their will or something.
00:31:11
And he got 35 years for it, like, the maximum. That's a lot, yeah. The one thing they could make stick.
00:31:17
Yeah. But because those boys had lied and done all that stuff, it made this guy look better than he should have looked.
00:31:25
And there are a lot of people who still feel like no one ever heard what really actually happened
00:31:29
because there's no way that that child molester was just an innocent bystander in that whole thing.
00:31:37
Well, when you think about these kids who were 12 and 13, but looked really young,
00:31:42
does that mean that who, how did they hit their dad over the head with a baseball bat and kill him?
00:31:46
That doesn't sound like something, a young looking 12 or 13, like a slight, you know what I mean?
00:31:51
Like that's a- Well, the older Derek is the one that did it and he was a little taller and bigger, but the guy was sitting in a, in like a lazy boy recliner.
00:32:00
And so he may have been asleep. He may have just snuck up on him because they had run away.
00:32:05
So they weren't in the house. They weren't around. So they snuck into the house and-
00:32:09
And killed him. And what's the story with the dad? Was he like a dick too? Like, was it-
00:32:13
There's no proof. That's the other thing is that they couldn't prove anything. They couldn't prove the molestation.
00:32:19
Everything was word of mouth, but hearsay or whatever. And the dad, they just said the dad was really strict.
00:32:28
And sometimes he would stare at them and they didn't like it. So I think it was just like those kids just looked worse and worse and worse and worse every time they talked about anything.
00:32:38
So it's like the dad was a dad trying his best. Maybe he was a dick. Maybe he was a dick, but he was trying, you know, but who knows?
00:32:47
Like, and also it was his friend. This totally the other, the child molester was his friend.
00:32:52
That's the reason that guy was in their life. So who knows? Like, do you wonder about like people we know that you're like, oh, like they're a child.
00:32:59
Like, what if they try to be a child molester? You would never know. No, you would never know.
00:33:04
Secrets. Secrets and lives. And now they're both out of jail. Shut up. They eventually got convicted.
00:33:11
the older one got eight years in jail and the little one got seven and now they're out
00:33:17
and one is like on drugs and violated his parole had to go back, Alex the younger one
00:33:24
because he got like into a car accident or something, it's all just really terrible and sad. Where are they living?
00:33:30
Down the street from here? No, no, this all happened in Florida but then they moved to somewhere
00:33:38
in Texas, I think Damn crazy. So crazy. And also as I was doing it, I was like, Oh, I love the story. It's so
00:33:47
disgusting and crazy, but then there's no real answers, which drives me nuts. I want to talk to the mom. Oh, she came in. Not only did she come in, in the 11th hour,
00:33:57
but she, Rosie O'Donnell hired her two lawyers for the boys. Oh really? Yeah. Why? Cause I think
00:34:05
she was afraid they weren't getting like a fair thing. So she put some lawyers, Florida lawyers on retainer for them.
00:34:12
Damn, Rosie. Uh-huh. Interesting. Yeah. This is another one of those murders where I think about it once a month,
00:34:24
once every couple months, because that scenario is just, it's just so nightmarish.
00:34:31
And those boys truly didn't have a chance. I mean, if we're talking about, and we have talked a lot about the why of serial killers or the why of spree or just, you know, parenticide, I don't know what it's called.
00:34:49
And this one is just, I remember reading and reading and reading about it and just being like, this is awful.
00:34:55
Well, it's one of those stories that it's like, on the surface, it looks like an act that happened, period.
00:35:01
Yeah. But when you start telling the story and looking into it and looking into the past and looking at circumstances, it just gets more and more convoluted, but also makes more sense.
00:35:14
Yes. In a way. Globally, yeah, you look at it. It's not random. Yeah. Two boys, which was how the media would talk about it back then, where it's just like two boys killed their parents and they're bad.
00:35:26
Yeah, exactly. When it's like that situation was like it actually makes perfect sense.
00:35:33
Coming from that, how they got to where they ended up. Yeah. So I do have case updates on this.
00:35:40
So Alex King actually died this year on April 23rd of a heart attack caused by a drug overdose.
00:35:48
He was only 35 years old. He'd been living in Missoula, Montana. He struggled with drug addiction for a long time That something his uncle told someone in the press The other brother Derek King is still alive 36 years old lives in Florida has a child sounds like
00:36:08
it's, you know, tried to put his life back together. So Ricky Chavez, who, as we heard,
00:36:15
was charged with kidnapping and 10 counts of molestation, is now in his mid-60s.
00:36:20
He is still serving his 30-year sentence at the Century Correctional Institution in Escambia County, Florida.
00:36:28
He's already served more than 20 years for his crimes. He appealed the verdict and the sentence, but they were upheld.
00:36:35
He's scheduled to be released in November of 2031. Okay. So now let's go from one that has these circumstances that when you hear them, it makes more sense as to what happened.
00:36:46
My story that I tell is not that. It is just, it is confounding and heartbreaking.
00:36:54
And, you know, of course, it's hard to talk about children who murder because the instinct that we have is always to assume that there was an abuse going on, that the parents were inflicting some kind of trauma.
00:37:08
So there are also victims and, you know, it's just you don't ever know these things.
00:37:14
And you want a reason. Right. You want something logical that you can follow to say, I see this all adds up now.
00:37:20
Right. But sometimes there isn't that. And it's so frustrating. And also, back in 2016, we talked about the victim and perpetrator's looks and their physical appearance.
00:37:33
And we don't really do that anymore. So just a heads up on that. Okay. So Georgia goes second in this episode. And here's her story.
00:37:42
It's about Jasmine Richardson and the Richardson family murders. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
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code MFM. Goodbye. All right. I want to hear my favorite murder for children who kill their
00:40:57
parents? Yes. Mine is the Richardson family murder. Okay. So in Medicine Hat, Alberta,
00:41:05
Canada. I love when Canadians get violent. You know, Canadians, I've been noticing from
00:41:10
the Facebook group, there's a lot of fucked up murders in Canada. Yeah, there are. Yeah. It's
00:41:14
really interesting. I think because there's like so much, it's wide open space. Totally.
00:41:17
And this is Canada's youngest multiple murderer. Her name is Jasmine Richardson.
00:41:24
Is this the one that's 12 but looks like she's 25? Shut up. Yes. Sorry. Sorry. No, it's good.
00:41:30
It's good. Yes, it totally is. So in April of 2006, Mark Richardson, who was 42, Deborah Richardson, who was 48.
00:41:41
And this is the fucking sad part. I mean, it's all sad. But Jacob Richardson, who was eight years old, was found dead.
00:41:47
And the daughter, who was 12 years old, was nowhere to be found. So this is the reason there photos of her out there is because at first she was a missing person So they splayed her photo all over the news and like where is this chick Turns out they find her The next day she gets arrested She is 12 years old hot like goth chick
00:42:06
dating a 23 year old dude named Jeremy Allen Steink. S-T-E-I-N-K-E. Steinkie. Steinkie.
00:42:17
That's the worst last name of all time. I know. Maybe he rebelled because he's like this gross.
00:42:22
he's like the dude that we probably dated in high school he's like a gross goth dude who looks like
00:42:28
probably wears eyeliner um he he said he was a 300 year old werewolf that liked the taste of blood
00:42:34
he's like that guy like gross i dated when i was like 14 and on drugs i dated older dudes and i
00:42:42
thought it was the coolest like this is what the story interested me too because it was like oh yeah
00:42:46
i could have that could have been me i mean i would never have killed my family but but who
00:42:50
knows if you get like pulled in by some weirdo yeah and he kind of it seems like i mean it
00:42:54
definitely seems like he's the one who egged the whole thing on because he said he watched
00:42:59
like hours before the murder watched um natural born killers yeah and was like me and my girlfriend
00:43:05
are this these people we're gonna kill your family um so they went in there the dad this is so
00:43:12
graphic the dad was stabbed so many times he didn't have blood in him anymore oh my god they
00:43:18
found him. And then this is the saddest part. Don't listen if you don't want to hear about
00:43:21
children getting murdered because I don't even want to, this poor eight-year-old kid,
00:43:26
she sat up there, his big sister sat up there with him. She says she covered his ears while
00:43:31
his parents got killed in the basement. And then, because she didn't want him to hear it.
00:43:37
So it's like, well, then she also didn't want him to get murdered, but the guy came up there,
00:43:41
the boyfriend, and was like, kill him. So together they kind of killed him. Just like disgusting.
00:43:48
and awful and like insane insane and it makes me not she's 12 years old but it makes me
00:43:54
have no sympathy for her anymore no you know no if she could do that sit with her brother and
00:44:01
cover his ears or whatever there's some modicum of control that she had or she could have taken
00:44:07
him out the window totally or something something except and now man she's going to community
00:44:13
fucking college and has a job and lives on her own. Because you can't be tried as an adult
00:44:21
when you're under 14 in Canada for murder. And the longest you can get is 10 years.
00:44:28
So she was 12 at the time, got 10 years, got out early. She's out under the care of a psychiatrist.
00:44:35
actress um she expresses genuine remorse quote genuine i mean i was a little shit when i was
00:44:44
young but i would but i knew you don't kill your family well i don't think it's i don't think it's
00:44:51
a fair comparison you probably being a little shit and a murderer is not the same thing well yeah i
00:44:58
mean that's true and i wonder what drugs they were doing were they on drugs together it just
00:45:03
it didn't talk about drugs, but they had to be on something. Yeah. Oh, I know. So he got three
00:45:09
life sentences. Yeah. So she essentially didn't like she only got punished for a little while.
00:45:18
Punished for a little while. She's going to school. I was reading a Reddit thing that's like,
00:45:23
someone was like, yeah, we, I go to this school and none of us know who she is, even though there's
00:45:27
photos of her and she looks so much older. Look at Jasmine Richardson. She's like a pretty,
00:45:33
gothy girl who looks 18 at the least. At the least. But you'd think that you could recognize her,
00:45:39
but everyone's like, no one can tell who she is. Well, you know what? I bet she grew those eyebrows in.
00:45:43
Sure. She probably got a nice stencil, an eyebrow stencil. Let's say hair is bleached blonde now, maybe.
00:45:50
Bleached blonde would be smart. No, or maybe she's like the most square looking person in the world now.
00:45:54
She goes full J.Crew. Full J.Crew. Yeah. That's a good way to hide. Perm? Marsha Clark perm?
00:46:00
bugged out marcia clark eyes yeah totally spray tan because you're not goth anymore
00:46:09
and i'll say or or she could be doing um mousy brown hair that almost isn't a color
00:46:16
and like john lennon glasses and just being like sexless plain yeah like the the person i always
00:46:24
think about that of like if I ever wanted to be a spy I know exactly what I would wear and like do
00:46:30
we don't look like spies you and I no yeah you'd have to be like an old goth lady
00:46:36
who stopped trying three years ago we would have to go real norm real normal not norm yeah we would have to do it would have to
00:46:49
be light honey brown box dyed hair. And also like, like cardigan sets. Yeah. Right. And like,
00:46:57
and like, um, or maybe just like, just have a shopping day at Marshall's. We would have to look
00:47:03
like I looked or like one would look when you have an office job you hate and don't want to
00:47:07
spend any money on the clothes. Yeah. So it's those like button down blouses that like a ruched
00:47:13
at the waist. Yes. And then a pencil skirt. Totally. You can, it's easy to hide in plain
00:47:19
sight. Cheap, shitty boots. Shitty boots, black tights. And then your purse is clearly from Payless.
00:47:25
Like your purse is from Payless. Sure. And then you just got a scrunchie. You've got all the hair, the permed hair up
00:47:31
in a scrunchie. All of it's up in a scrunch. No makes. Shaved eyebrows and then they're penciled back in.
00:47:37
Ooh, that's a bit, that almost might seem glamorous though. That is. I think you grow the eyebrows in.
00:47:42
Yeah, for sure. That'd be hard for me though. Okay. Lip liner only. No lipstick.
00:47:49
Or just no lipstick. Right. No, just no lips. Oh my God. What about those people that wear all foundation?
00:47:57
Oh, yeah. So just foundation. Have like an all beige face. It's like no contouring whatsoever.
00:48:03
No contouring, no lipstick, no eye makeup. You just got the basics covered. Yeah.
00:48:10
The baby. My cat is stoked on this look for me. He's like, you'll just never leave the house anymore.
00:48:17
Wow, I'm fascinated. I am too. I do remember seeing that picture when I read that she was 12.
00:48:22
I was like, yeah, that's insane. Yeah, I don't know how. I was like, that must be an older photo of her.
00:48:27
Nope, that's what she looked like. And I think she supposedly lied. They maybe met in a chat room
00:48:33
and supposedly she might've been lying about her age, saying she was 15. So he's still a 23 year old fucking a 15 year old.
00:48:40
Yes. But also if he's 300, he should have been able to pick up on that lie. Yeah.
00:48:45
If he's been around that much, you'd think he would know. And they killed their parents supposedly
00:48:50
because they disapproved of the relationship, which is like, this was bothering me so much about the whole thing
00:48:55
is like these parents get killed for parenting. Yeah. that bothers me so much. Like these parents get killed for something that later in your life,
00:49:04
you're like, they were right. I look back at my mom and how mad I was at her and embarrassed I was at
00:49:09
certain moments. Like, and I'm like, oh no, no, no, no. You were being an asshole.
00:49:12
She was parenting. Yes. Okay. So here are some case updates about three months after this episode was
00:49:24
recorded in early May, 2016, Jasmine completed her 10 year sentence. which included four years in a psychiatric institution and then four and a half years under conditional supervision.
00:49:34
And when I mentioned in the episode that she was in community college, this was during her time under community supervision.
00:49:41
She's now 30 years old and living under a new identity. But Jeremy Steinke is still in prison.
00:49:47
He's still serving his life sentence. He'll be eligible for parole in 2031 after serving 25 years of his sentence.
00:49:55
and you know hopefully that will be denied that parole yeah on the plus side you can hear elvis a
00:50:03
lot meowing oh god during that episode i mean that actually is kind of sweet that you could go back
00:50:09
and kind of oh yeah listen to him anytime you wanted to know and the fact that he we still have
00:50:14
him meowing there's at every episode yeah all these years later he's still being asked if he
00:50:19
wants to click he and having a meow at the end of every episode makes me like want to cry yeah and
00:50:23
got to. He helped us get to where we are today. I can't overstate how much his companionship and
00:50:32
loyalty helped with my mental health. I mean, I would not be where I am today if I had not
00:50:37
adopted that cat. He was just such a loyal angel. He a good boy. He was a very good boy.
00:50:43
He was a very good boy. But how funny that today I have a dog named Cookie, named after my sweet boy.
00:50:52
Right? Prayers up, prayers up. That's right. Every day. Full circle. Yeah, very sweet.
00:50:57
Alvis brought me a cookie at the very end of it. Aw. I know. All right. So we don't start doing minisodes until March 30th, 2016.
00:51:08
So in these early days, we do hometowns at the end of every episode. That's how we started blending it together.
00:51:14
So here is early days. A listener from New Zealand rode in. I mean, who knew? That's huge and so cool.
00:51:25
And when we went down there of course legendary tour in Australia and New Zealand I never forget it One of the best trips I ever been on So amazing The people were so great
00:51:38
It was so cool. So here's the hometown. Should we do a... Yeah. Emails? We have some good your hometown murders.
00:51:51
You guys are really fucking killing it. You're killing it. And so much so, I don't know if you guys saw,
00:51:56
but we got a really nice review on the AV club that specifically mentioned how good the hometown
00:52:03
murder stories are. Totally. My cat's going to rip up your notes. That's okay. Okay. Yeah. You
00:52:08
guys are part of this podcast and we appreciate it. Yeah. So you can, you can email them to us
00:52:15
at my favorite murder at Gmail. You can join the Facebook group. It's a private group. So people
00:52:20
won't see that you're an insane person that loves murders. But you have to ask to join it. Is that
00:52:26
right yeah you need to be approved and you're being approved by me and i so far have not not
00:52:30
approved anyone so it's not scary and then we also have a twitter account my fave murder f-a-b
00:52:36
um so if you need to go there you should follow us there yeah okay you want to start um sure
00:52:44
let's see this is the one i marked i just i like to lay in bed and read these i know i did the best
00:52:52
and then flag ones that are like, you know, clear, concise, easy. So let's see. This is one that I
00:52:59
flagged. Oh, this is creepy. So hi ladies. This is from Maite, M-A-I-T-E, Maite Elgueta,
00:53:11
Elgueta Clavel. And I think she, she's originally from Chile. So that's why she has such a
00:53:17
Fascinating name. All right. So she says, hi, ladies. Really cool to have found your podcast.
00:53:23
I'm originally from Chile, but I have lived in New Zealand, NZ. Yeah, sure. For over 10 years now, NZ.
00:53:32
My husband and I are really fascinated by cold cases and always talk about it. There's so many here in NZ that are very interesting and worth mentioning, like the Bain murders or the Mark Lundy's case.
00:53:43
Naming them here so you have a chance to research a little. but the one I want to tell you about
00:53:48
happened in the town I grew up in and the victim was a student from my school so that's one personal connection on the case
00:53:54
Carla Oyarzan was a 15 year old talented student and athlete who was found dead at a sports
00:54:00
training park in Orsono Chile. She had been raped beaten and strangled with her own running tights
00:54:06
on the evening of December 17th 2008 Carla and her sister went for the usual training session at the
00:54:12
City Outdoor Sports Facility they usually go to training with their dad but um that day their mom was sick so the dad stayed home
00:54:20
looking after her and the girls trained together for a while then separated carla stayed behind doing extra laps and her sister went home in parentheses terrible move
00:54:29
after a few hours and with no signs of carla the family members and friends went to look for her
00:54:34
and among these friends was fellow athlete and former coach of carla christian rojel 35 he knew
00:54:42
the area very well. So he led the search that night and also helped the police search the
00:54:47
following morning. He even talked to the media saying that he had seen her training and have
00:54:51
told her that she shouldn't be on her own, that it was late. All red flags. It was dangerous. Yep.
00:54:56
She wrote I mean hello You just implicating You telling everyone that you were there Yeah You so interested Yep So carlo body was discovered the following morning at a remote part of the training field an area that was covered in really high wheat grass a wheat grass so as you might have
00:55:14
guessed he raped and killed her and do you know how he got caught his wife saw him coming home
00:55:18
that night and jumping in the shower with his clothes on as if he was trying to wash them she
00:55:23
found that odd and when she heard carla about carla being dead she checked her husband's wet
00:55:28
clothing and it was covered in dry grass like the wheat grass and then she saw something that
00:55:33
looked like blood so she called the police and the blood was matched to carlo's dna
00:55:36
he raped her with a condom so he wouldn't get caught he was found guilty of rape and first
00:55:42
degree murder is currently serving a life sentence in a local prison um he's never confessed to
00:55:49
killing her he first said that they were lovers and the sex was consensual later later admitted
00:55:53
to have raped her, but insisted he left her alive. Yeah, right. Just confess at this point.
00:56:01
Yeah. Good for his fucking wife, man. I know. That's the kind of person that people need to be.
00:56:07
Imagine that moment where you look down and you see all the, oh my God. I would want to throw up.
00:56:12
I would run out of the house. That's like the moment in Silence of the Lambs where she's like,
00:56:18
may I use your phone, please? Right. Or you try to act calm, but there's no way to be calm.
00:56:24
Such a good... Oh, you know, I read an article recently that was just an interview from the two of...
00:56:28
Mr. I don't want to hurt your dog. And she puts the lotion on... I read an article that was just interviewing the two of them and what their experiences were like.
00:56:36
And it was amazing. Were they together? No. It was like quotes from both of them.
00:56:40
That's so funny. That's a... I've never heard that story before. Every time I see Mr. I got your dog, every time I see her in anything else, I'm so proud.
00:56:49
Did you know she was in Grey's Anatomy? Yeah. I did not realize it was her to read that article.
00:56:53
I was so happy for her. I know, she's fine. Life after that pit. Residual money.
00:56:59
Okay. You guys, thanks for listening. Follow us on all the places we talked about earlier.
00:57:04
And rate us on iTunes. Rate, review, and subscribe. Subscribe. Please do that because that gets us so many more viewers and listeners,
00:57:10
like the higher up we get. And we want everyone to listen to this because we want everyone to be
00:57:14
fucked up in the head. Yeah, we need to share. You know, it's sharing is caring.
00:57:19
It definitely is. And, you know, stay sexy. Stay sexy. Don't get murdered. Bye. So out of the hometown and onto the title and the ending, because this is a big one.
00:57:38
This is the very first episode that ends with stay sexy and don't get murdered. This was so off the cuff.
00:57:47
Yes. I mean, I remember you saying stay sexy and I remember needing to say something else.
00:57:52
And we had just gone over such horrific murders that it was almost just like I felt like we were telling we were literally telling the person listening how to live their life.
00:58:03
Yeah. And it was definitely stay sexy. Yes, absolutely. But also don't get murdered, please.
00:58:08
Yeah. Just like how you would tell a friend. Yeah. What you would tell a friend when they were leaving your house at night.
00:58:13
Yeah. Have a safe flight. It has that vibe to it. Right. For sure. I was, of course, being incredibly sarcastic.
00:58:21
But we had decided, I think, before we started recording, we need a tagline. Like, we need some sort of—we were trying to just, like, tighten our shit up and, like, be more official.
00:58:30
It like well if now there you know if now there 3 people on the Facebook page we better start treating this like it a real show Yeah Because at the end I think we like okay well goodbye Goodbye No
00:58:42
Yeah. We need to end it on something. Yeah, exactly. And so then we also named the episode Stay Sixsy because we were still doing the number puns.
00:58:52
Yeah. But Alejandra, our producer, pulled out some lines that could be what we would name it now that we do it just on lines that we say in the show.
00:59:01
Yeah. So we have Adventures into Ghost Mouths, something Karen said. Oh, that's right.
00:59:08
Yeah. Oh, there's also Arts and Crafts Gothic, which is something Georgia said, talking about the house.
00:59:14
The house on the show American Horror Story was available to be Airbnb. That's right.
00:59:20
Crazy. I don't want to spend the night there. My cat's going to rip up your notes was one of the options, because literally my cats would have torn your notes to shreds at one point.
00:59:30
Those cats loved paper. They still do. And they loved it while we were recording the most, it felt like.
00:59:38
It was like, wait, was it Mimi that was always a little bit like, hey, what do you got over here?
00:59:42
They both love to shred paper, for sure. It was very handy when I was paying bills and stuff like that, but not when you need sound to sound okay.
00:59:51
Not with that incredible audio that we were doing back in 2016. I mean, did we invent ASMR?
00:59:58
I don't know. It's possible. One could say. I mean, if you're relaxed by ripping paper, which, good.
01:00:05
I mean, cats ripping paper is pretty adorable. If that's what you love, this is the show for you.
01:00:11
Well, we've done it again. Yeah. Do you like reviewing old episodes with us? How do you feel about this?
01:00:17
We could do it forever. We could do it for never. Let us know what you prefer. If you demand the cancellation of this series, please rate, review, and subscribe in iTunes.
01:00:27
Please do. And also stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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