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00:01:28
Hello. Welcome back to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our series where we re-listen to the best moments from old episodes and share our feelings about them and discuss everything that's so different now.
00:01:55
And also we have case updates on the cases that need to be updated. We talk about what was going on behind the scenes.
00:02:02
It's just a real pull back the old curtain. Yeah. And see what's going on back there.
00:02:09
Because we don't fucking remember. I mean, it has been a real jolt to the memory, some of the stuff that's coming up on these pages.
00:02:17
Yeah. We're like, we're getting into it now. And this project itself is nerve wracking to get off the ground.
00:02:21
But you guys have been so positive about your feedback and your reviews wherever you get your podcasts.
00:02:27
So we're going to just keep doing them until we can't handle it anymore. Yes, we're so excited that you like it.
00:02:33
We appreciate you being here for truly what is some of the most intense navel gazing of all time.
00:02:39
It's like, let's talk about us talking and then comment on that talking. And hopefully in five years we can do a spinoff of this podcast.
00:02:47
Talking about our talking about our talking. Talk about it. So today we're rewinding to episode seven, which first aired on Friday, March 11th, 2016.
00:02:57
So it's time for everybody to be a day one listener right now. Grab your sister-in-law, grab your mail carrier, and of course, all those single cat ladies.
00:03:08
We love you. Get up here, please. You've given us a career. All right. So should we get into it?
00:03:17
Let's do it. So let's get into episode seven of My Favorite Murder. It came out again on March 11, 2016.
00:03:24
Where were you? Where were we? Here we are. Here we are. Hi. Hey. You guys, hi. We're back.
00:03:36
Hey, we're back from a week-long hiatus. And now we're here to deliver your favorite.
00:03:43
To give you nightmares and anxiety. Your favorite. My favorite. Murder. My favorite.
00:03:50
Murder. I didn't get that. Sorry. We should have rehearsed that. We should have.
00:03:56
That's Karen. And that's Georgia. And yes, we've been on a slight hiatus. Yeah. We had life things happen to us.
00:04:04
Very large life things. Not murder. Thank God. No. But nice things. Georgia got married.
00:04:12
And a beautiful ceremony on the coast. Thank you. Karen. mom died she died after a long illness yeah i'm sorry it's okay it was actually really lovely yeah
00:04:26
it was kind for me it was a big uh about two week period though of stress yeah or just like big
00:04:34
feelings of waiting between her passing and having to do the and the memorial yeah which is rare
00:04:40
right yeah i think my dad was waiting he put a little time in there so that people could come
00:04:45
and plan it out and make sure they were there. And then it turned out to be a brilliant idea
00:04:50
because there was tons of people. It was really lovely. That's great. I'm so glad.
00:04:55
Yeah, it was nice. When I drove back home, the front end of my car fell off. What?
00:04:59
Didn't I tell you that? No. I drove six hours back from San Francisco, took the Riverside exit, came to a stop,
00:05:06
and the front bumper, like everything under the lights and down, just went into the street.
00:05:13
Oh, shit. And I had this my favorite part. I had to pick it up and stick it into my car, which is very small.
00:05:19
And there was a guy in the car next to me. He's like, you need my help? And I was like, yes.
00:05:23
And so he helped me put in the car. And as he came around the side to help me, he looked at all the other cars around us and goes, you can help people, you know,
00:05:31
and started yelling at everybody else for not helping me, which was beautiful. And how I think many of us feel. Yeah. Yeah. That's so nice. Yeah. There's this like,
00:05:42
do I help or is that weird if I help? Right. And can I be of help? Like if it was me,
00:05:46
I'd be like, can I even lift that thing or whatever? Do you need anything? Yeah.
00:05:51
Yeah. Do you want me to park in front of your car with my lights on? So if they hit me they won hit you It out of her car Should I use myself as a human shield to make sure no more damage comes to your car Exactly Or do you want me to play some really good music
00:06:05
so you can like do this with... Get it done. Yeah. How do you feel after your big weekend?
00:06:12
I feel great. The wedding, the whole fucking weekend was like... I'm going to cry if I start talking about it.
00:06:18
It was like perfect and wonderful and like this outpouring of love. And Vince said this really sweet thing of like, you know, when you go to weddings and you're really, you can tell a wedding, people believe that you're a good couple when they have a really good time at your wedding.
00:06:34
Yes. You know what I mean? Like you don't want to fucking dance to like Boogie On Down when you're like, well, I'm pretty sure he's going to die of a heroin overdose or cheat on her.
00:06:42
She's like, I know she's fucked or, you know. No, everybody had like hearts in their own eyes about your guys' marriage.
00:06:50
It was nice. And everybody cried at the ceremony because you started having a little bit of a cry voice,
00:06:58
but like you were trying to cover it. I was. So your voice just kept getting higher and higher and higher.
00:07:03
It was my favorite. You were like, I tore down. It was so cute. There was this moment that when I first got up there, like I just had immediately started
00:07:13
crying, but I didn't want tears because I didn't want my makeup to get ruined. So it just came out of my nose instead.
00:07:17
and I gestured towards Vince's pocket square. Yeah. And he like thought I, he fixed it
00:07:25
because he thought I was like in the middle of our ceremony going like, fix your pocket square.
00:07:31
And I was, I was mortified. I was like, no, can I have that? And he gave it to me and I just snotted all over his pocket square.
00:07:37
But what kind of a human being would I be if I was like, fix your pocket square?
00:07:40
I think he was just like, whatever you need. This is what I'm, I'm doing what you need.
00:07:45
That was a really hilarious moment though, because no, I didn't see the fix it or any of that.
00:07:50
I literally saw you point toward it and then him flick out like a magician, a big, huge red handkerchief.
00:07:58
It was very, very cute. Okay, good. And what's what I'm all about these days? Real feelings, real time, real feelings.
00:08:05
Here they are. They're just out there and you can grab them and work. And it's like, of course you're crying.
00:08:11
Of course. It's like, these are, you know, these are the peak experiences of all of our lives.
00:08:16
These are the days to hold on to. Because they will not last forever. Nope. Right?
00:08:21
They want to. Something because they want to. I'm doing Billy Joel. Which one are you doing?
00:08:27
I think I'm doing that too. These are the days to hold on to. These are the days.
00:08:34
This has been my favorite murder. Goodbye. Goodbye. That's all it was. People are like, I got nothing that I came here for.
00:08:42
No, we mean we're murdering it at life. Yeah. We're murdering. emotions. Before we talk about our favorite
00:08:48
murders, I want to ask you, and I haven't watched this week, but did you watch this People vs. OJ Simpson last
00:08:54
week? Oh, yeah. How did you feel about Dominic Dunn's character? Okay, wait. Are you talking about
00:09:02
last week or I just watched one last night? No, I didn't watch that one yet. Okay.
00:09:06
The one where he first makes an appearance and everyone knows who he is. He's like a famous crime
00:09:10
journalist. I felt good about his character. Like I felt like it was accurate to
00:09:14
who Dominic Dunn was. And it was amazing. But he was like, he reminded me, his character is so outlandish
00:09:20
and insane as a human being he is. Yeah. It reminded me of like In Cold Blood, what's his name?
00:09:30
Truman Capote. Truman Capote's character. You know, it's just so outlandish and it's really not necessary
00:09:35
in the show. Right. But I loved it. Well, but he is, I mean, I bet you part of the reason he's there
00:09:42
because he wrote so much on that trial in the real time. Yes. And kind of contributed to probably what they're researching.
00:09:50
Like they might be reading some of his stuff. No, you're totally right. Is he still alive, Dominique Dunn?
00:09:56
I don't think so. I don't know. I'm not sure. And of course, we all know his daughter, Dominique Dunn.
00:10:02
Yeah. Got shot by a rabid fan of her, a stalker. Yeah, a stalker. Pretty amazing.
00:10:07
I mean, he's kind of one of the original. And he had a great power, privilege, and justice.
00:10:12
was such a good show. Really good show. I bet you can find it online. Yeah. But he's not a good narrator
00:10:18
because he talks too slow. Right. And he has a lot of gravitas that he adds on that he doesn't need. Yeah.
00:10:26
Where it's like, you already have tiny glasses. We know that you know what you're talking about. Well, what's so great
00:10:30
about People vs. O.J. Simpson is there's so many moments in it, including his gravitas and his
00:10:36
cadence that you have to... We've stopped so many times during the show to be like,
00:10:42
did that really happen? And look it up and it fucking really happened. You mean like the Faye Resnick thing?
00:10:47
Yes, that was amazing. A fucking Brentwood hello. A Brentwood hello? Is that even, there's no way that was a thing they did.
00:10:55
I bet it was. Are you serious? Yes. I bet it was in the book. Right. I bet someone researched the book.
00:11:02
No, no, for sure. But I mean, do you think her book was totally true? Oh, I see what you're saying.
00:11:06
She seemed like a boozy fool. No, then no, I don't think it was true. I mean like it just seemed like she was talking
00:11:13
yeah she's like we did coke all the time we were crazy which is like sure probably but to act like you
00:11:19
did that every morning in random homes right and that was like the lifestyle and not like they had children
00:11:25
that they had to raise and take to school and stuff yeah but I mean that part I actually did look up
00:11:30
what Faye Resnick's role was because I didn't remember her from when it happened in real life
00:11:36
and all that stuff was true Oh my God. Someone posted on our Facebook group, their photo of their copy of that book that they've
00:11:44
had. Like it's like an original copy or something. It's like, this is a good group of people.
00:11:49
Man if I get murdered terribly you can spill it You know what You know you have my official digital permission to just say whatever you think would work best and make you the most money What do you think a Burbank goodbye is
00:12:06
Something really gross. That'd be like slightly dinging the side of your minivan
00:12:10
out of a Trader Joe's parking lot. Bye. Yeah. All right. So today our theme is unsolved murders.
00:12:18
Yes. It's an easy one because... Because we've been busy and I think, didn't I make it up while
00:12:24
we were standing in the parking lot at the end of your wedding. Yes. You were like, you know what?
00:12:28
Let's just... Here's a nice open one that we'll have lots of choices for. Yeah. But I feel like throughout, as we go on, they'll be easier and then they're going to get harder
00:12:38
and harder. Do you think they're going to get easier, then get harder, and then get easier again?
00:12:42
Yeah. I think there'll be a point where we're just getting too specific. We need to get...
00:12:46
You know what I mean? We're trying to make it easier on ourselves. Yes. Over sandwiches.
00:12:51
We're going to work all the way down to... two shots to the back of the head at midnight.
00:12:57
And then we'll be like... Murders that happened in 1936. It was in January of 1936.
00:13:03
The pantaloon murders. Do you want to go first? Do you? Whatever you think. I have a theory.
00:13:10
We were just talking about this. George and I both think that there's a chance we may have picked the same unsolved murder.
00:13:15
Yeah, let me tell you what my original one was going to be. But I ended up changing because I was like...
00:13:20
Because first of all, it's like near your hometown. Oh, okay. So there's no way you didn't know it.
00:13:25
And then I looked it up and it was like, I had liked it because there was like, it was just so random.
00:13:31
But that meant there really wasn't that much interesting stuff about it. Right. And then also, it also meant that, I also looked it up and it was like, this is who probably did it.
00:13:42
And so it was like, not. It seemed kind of like an obvious answer. Exactly. So it was the 2000, mine was going to be the General California double murder in 2004 where those kids were camping out on a beach and just got shot with a fucking rare, weird gun.
00:13:59
Yep. You know what I'm talking about? Yes. Because it didn't just happen there. It also happened in San Francisco.
00:14:05
Yes. Yes. So I hadn't realized that had happened. I hadn't realized that they had a couple obvious suspects.
00:14:12
And so I was going to do that. I like that one though, because, and also weren't they like, when I like the story when you're reading it and it's like, these were two children from a Christian camp.
00:14:23
Oh, they, yeah. They were like as squeaky clean as you could possibly be. Yeah, they were.
00:14:28
And out in the middle, Jenner is like a big grassy open field of nothing. The idea that you would get murdered in Jenner is like someone was going way out of their way.
00:14:37
Right. Or knew the area so well. Right. And the first thing that came to my mind was that they pissed someone off earlier in the day.
00:14:48
Yeah. They made me road rage and they saw their fucking car parked out there in the middle of the night.
00:14:54
You know, something's really simple. Yeah. There's also that rando serial killer that just traveled all across the whole United States.
00:15:02
I think his first name was Israel. Holy shit. You know that guy? No. And he looks like a guy that would work at REI.
00:15:09
When I saw his picture, I got super freaked out. I don't know. I don't think I've ever been in an REI.
00:15:14
REI is like, you know, like Patagonia. It's a North Face. Who works? I don't know who looks.
00:15:19
Oh, just like a dude who would have like medium length, sandy blonde, curly hair.
00:15:25
Necklace. Yes, a rope necklace. That's what this guy looked like. And he was randomly killing people all across the country, everywhere he went.
00:15:36
And then when they caught him, he committed suicide. So he never, no one knows if like what he did exactly.
00:15:42
It's just so interesting that the gun was, it was from like 1896. Oh, is that right?
00:15:47
It was like a shotgun from 1896. That's probably wrong. But like a really old vintage.
00:15:52
Yeah. You shouldn't kill someone with a gun so rare. Everyone take note. If you're going to kill someone, make it a really obvious gun.
00:15:59
Or not obvious gun. Yeah. Because the, no, the antique gun's obvious, right? Right.
00:16:04
Yeah. Yeah. What was he like loading a musket on the beach? Yeah. They were saying it was one of those fucking guns.
00:16:09
No. Yeah. That's terrible. That would mean that there's a delay between killing one and killing the other.
00:16:15
Yeah, and he must have been a good shot if it was at night. Oh, yoy. And he grabbed the shell casings too, so there's no shell casings left,
00:16:22
which means he must have known where they went because if he was in the sand, he grabbed them out of the air or had like a...
00:16:27
Or he had a metal detector. Do we both have colds? Does my voice sound so much more froggy then and now?
00:16:39
Did you used to be a frog and you've grown out of it through money and success? You've been able to get it removed.
00:16:46
Oh, my God. I don't. Look. It's just different. It's different. We're not supposed to be listening.
00:16:53
It's really gross. This is really gross of me, but there's an element to this of squatting over a mirror.
00:17:02
We're just like, what are you doing? Don't look in there. It goes against nature for us to listen to a podcast that we did from 2016.
00:17:13
It goes against nature. Also, we were just like, I think there's an anxiety piece around it because we had no fucking idea what was coming.
00:17:21
And we were just like, isn't this funny you and me talking? It wasn't there. I don't remember exactly when, but I think it was like the summer that things started to kind of go crazy.
00:17:31
Yeah. Right? So we're now in a nice early spring. Yeah, and we don't think anything of it.
00:17:38
Also, we don't think anything of recording with light colds. And how many times did I hit the microphone in one short clip?
00:17:44
How much was Canada had before you came over is a good question. Hey, look, you got a pregame when I'm coming over.
00:17:49
That's the vibe. Okay so in this seventh episode called Seven Murders in Heaven love that one We back from a week hiatus for two reasons I get married which is fucking wild
00:18:06
You remember? Remember? I remember my wedding. Remember the Madonna Inn? The Madonna Inn.
00:18:11
It was a great wedding. I am so happy. You know, such good memories there. And you're now eight and a half years into that marriage.
00:18:17
Yeah. How's it going? So far, so good. I haven't decided yet. What sweatpants are you wearing right now?
00:18:24
Fuck you, I'm married. Oh, yeah. Fuck you, I'm divorced. No, no. I'm hardcore married.
00:18:28
It's fun, it turns out. Are you a trad wife? Is this how we learn it? Can you imagine?
00:18:35
Is that what hardcore married? Hardcore married. Hardcore trad wife married. I washed my bangs in the sink before I came to the office.
00:18:42
So, no, I am definitely not a trad wife. Okay, good to know. Vince makes dinner most of the time.
00:18:47
Like, no. That's very much against the rules. It is. Yeah, it's crazy. Right. And then also, and this is another thing that was going on at the time. And I feel like when I think about it, you and I didn't know each other that well or for that long, really.
00:19:03
No, at all. So the other thing that happened was your mom passed away. And I don't think I like, I just, I didn't like talk about it with you. And I didn't like ask, I didn't know how much you wanted to share on the podcast. You know, I didn't know what I should say exactly. So it was just kind of breezed over. And I've always regretted that.
00:19:22
Oh, yeah. Well, that's very nice of you to say. And overlapping with my wedding.
00:19:28
That's like kind of not fair. Honestly, you know, it's first of all, it's the kind of thing that like I think something like that where someone's been ill for a long time and it's very kind of like oppressive and life changing.
00:19:41
You don't know what to say. Right. That is one of the hardest kind of things to navigate.
00:19:46
Meanwhile, we're like riffing. Yeah. When were you supposed to, you know, were you supposed to kick off the podcast with the condolences?
00:19:53
Were you supposed to break in? Like I get that completely. Also, I think people who have loved ones who get Alzheimer's and suffer through it, it is such a long, terrible, arduous nightmare.
00:20:06
There's a part of it that you have a lot of guilt at the end because you're so relieved.
00:20:11
Which seems so unfair. It's just, well, the whole fucking thing's unfair. And it's like, it just keeps coming.
00:20:17
So, like, at that point, I guess I'm just trying to say this to you to comfort you in this way.
00:20:23
At that point, anybody that's gone through it for any meaningful length of time, no one gives a shit about it.
00:20:29
No one's counting up. Did you say sorry to me? It just is so far past the point of manners.
00:20:37
Yeah. And like it's like not how the rules go for grief. Right. So it's just confusing for you, of course, and confusing for everyone wanting to support you.
00:20:51
and like what's the best way to do that? You know what I mean? Yeah. So I think that we have to actually talk about this
00:20:57
because I had the same thing happen in the beginning of this podcast when I made this weird senior decision.
00:21:04
I won't say victims names. That will be like the most respectful and it is absolutely kind of a self-serving logic
00:21:11
or it's like this logic of like, I'll just not do anything and that's the solution,
00:21:17
which is very common and very understandable. And I think it's like, in general, if somebody dies, just say anything.
00:21:24
It's just like, I know you are going through something and I know anything I say isn't going to bug and solve it.
00:21:30
Like, I think I definitely do that where I'm like, I need to say the perfect thing.
00:21:35
How am I the perfect friend here? No way. It's just mess. It's messier than that.
00:21:41
Imagine if you could friend me out of mom, dead mom grief. That would have been miraculous.
00:21:46
Who do I think I am if I were trying to do that? Listen, you make a tuna noodle casserole, you fucking bring that shit over.
00:21:51
Slap someone on the back two times and give them a shot of vodka and you're done.
00:21:55
Done. They've grieved. Solved. Solved. Well, but I do love that Pat has become a person in the podcast in our lives here.
00:22:04
She's talked about her incredible nursing career is talked about because there's so much to mine from that.
00:22:11
Yes. And just her personality and stuff. So that's really nice. And we've talked about like both the advantage we both have of having therapy normalized so early that shame isn't even it's like we understand that people really felt a lot of shame about therapy, especially 10, you know, eight, eight and a half years ago.
00:22:32
But the gift of never having to feel that way tricked us into talking about a thing that people were like, why aren't you embarrassed?
00:22:40
And it's like because we just aren't. It's like, oh, you're being so vulnerable.
00:22:43
It's like, no, I just fucking talk about this. like a, this is chit chat for me. I will talk about this at a bus stop. It's connected to the
00:22:50
other trauma from the other parts. Right, right, right. Oversharing. It all goes together. But
00:22:56
that's a really lovely thought. Thank you for saying that. Because I do, I still have someone
00:23:00
made me make Pat proud in this beautiful calligraphy that I have on my kitchen counter.
00:23:06
Yeah. I think that our listeners, many of them have been through it. Many of them have talked
00:23:12
to me about it. Like it is such a kind of a bonding experience. It's just kind of a lovely
00:23:17
thing to have that you wouldn't think would be lovely. I've seen it when we do live shows and we do the meet and greet after and there's at least one or
00:23:26
two amazing women who are saying, my mom went through this too. And there's just like immediate
00:23:30
understanding between the two of you that I don't think anyone else would ever get.
00:23:35
Yeah. Yeah. Unless they qualify for the worst fucking situation. Right. It's like, get in here.
00:23:44
It's a club no one wants to be part of. Completely. All right. So today we were doing themes still. So this episode is Unsolved Murders. It's so funny. We were really afraid in this episode that we picked the same murder.
00:23:59
Yes. And that was a fear of mine. It's been a fear of mine for so long. And it's just never happened.
00:24:04
And I don't think it's ever going to happen. And I don't know how that's possible.
00:24:07
Because people kill people all the time. Because there's so many of them. It's crazy.
00:24:12
Yeah. And horrible. You're right. That's like people in the earlier days being like, well, how long can you do that?
00:24:17
I'm like, I've got some terrible news for you, sir, usually. Right. Right. Oh, God.
00:24:24
We want to run out of stories, please. Yeah. We'd love that. Well, also, you know, since 2016, we definitely had to shift away from the constant where it's like true crime as a trend was peaking at that time because we were coming out of some really golden years where a lot of people had the privilege of being able to entertain that kind of thing.
00:24:49
and as our realities have changed so severely and things have gotten so intense,
00:24:57
it's not the same valve for some people anymore. Okay, so I'm going to be doing the Unsolved Murder at the Black Dahlia for my case.
00:25:07
Amazing. On this one, I'm doing Elisa Lam, I believe. I know, I know. So this might be your origin episode.
00:25:14
Yeah. Where you're like, I'm just trying to get back to that. Yeah, unsolved cases.
00:25:19
I want to know so bad. Let's start with the one that everyone wants to know. God.
00:25:25
The Black Dahlia. The Black Dahlia. Okay, so let's get into it. I mentioned it in the episode, but my source for this was a blog called DerangedLACrimes.com.
00:25:34
It's written by Joan Renner, a writer, lecturer, and social historian with an expertise in historic Los Angeles crime.
00:25:40
Nice source. I know, right? Yeah, you were actually doing it. if you spend all day waiting to take your bra off it might be time for third love if you're
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00:28:37
All right. Well, what's your real one if that was your fake one? Okay. So then I changed it to a kind of one that everyone knows and loves,
00:28:45
but this is going to be my favorite and I think the most realistic answer too. Okay.
00:28:52
Your favorite unsolved murder. My favorite unsolved murder is The Black Dahlia. Yes.
00:28:56
Is that yours? Oh my God. She was in my top three. Was she? Yeah. It was the other one that you didn't do.
00:29:01
Well, JonBenet, but I knew we'd already discussed her at length. JonBenet is the one that I want to know the answer the most.
00:29:08
Yeah. And then the Black Dahlia second. Okay. So, all right. So, everyone knows the story of Elizabeth Short.
00:29:17
Where am I? Elizabeth Short, the Black Dahlia. She was found in a vacant lot in Los Angeles, 39th and Norton, if anyone is in LA and wants to find it.
00:29:26
There's a house or a school there now. She was naked, cut in half. She was severely mutilated, posed in the grass.
00:29:34
She had no blood left on her. And, of course, the detective said it looked like a medical man.
00:29:41
They said that a man with a vast medical knowledge had mutilated her. And so okay recently I watched the James Elroy documentary about it called Feast of Death It basically a bunch of men sitting around a table eating dinner talking about murder and death all men because why would a woman know anything
00:30:06
Well, if there's no women, they can really be themselves. Right. Okay. So I found that psychologist Alicia LeVere was a Herald Express writer,
00:30:16
and she did a series of columns profiling the whole case. And she profiled, she identified the
00:30:23
person as a possible older woman who had either committed the crime or inspired the person who
00:30:30
killed her. And all these reasons, it was like a psychological profile of why it could be a woman.
00:30:36
Is that person you're talking about that wrote those columns from back then or now?
00:30:40
She, it was from back then. And then John E. Douglas, he retired. There's a thing called the
00:30:47
FBI Behavioral Analysis Unit, which like I'll intern, like you don't have to pay me.
00:30:52
Yes. You know. Where they're sitting there going, it's a single man between 30 and 35.
00:30:59
Hates his mom. Yeah. That kind of thing. Love it. Love it. He probably works at this job or that job.
00:31:05
Yeah. Awesome. So he created a profile that kind of backed up her theory that it could have been an older woman who would have done this or inspired it.
00:31:14
Okay. And then finally, researcher Larry Harnish had a theory that, and he had written an article
00:31:22
in the LA Times on the 50th anniversary, and he uncovered a connection between the dump site
00:31:27
on 39th and Norton Street and one of the suspects, who's now a suspect. And I think this is what
00:31:35
James Alvarez thing was about, that there was a 67-year-old Dockner. Have you heard this theory
00:31:41
before? I think, well, tell me about it. 67 year old doctor named Walter Alonzo Bailey.
00:31:47
He used to live in his estranged wife, currently lived one block away from the dump site. Whoa.
00:31:53
Okay. That's like interesting. What's more interesting is that Bailey's daughter,
00:32:02
adopted daughter was friends with Elizabeth's shorts. Why do I keep wanting to say Elizabeth
00:32:08
smart because elizabeth smart's that girl that got kidnapped yeah yeah elizabeth short's sister
00:32:13
so bailey's so many of the doctors daughter they were so close that this that the daughter was a
00:32:21
witness in elizabeth short's wedding so that's pretty but there's no evidence that they ever
00:32:27
met but you're kind of like they had to know each other yeah okay so he was a stranger with his wife
00:32:34
who lived a block away. He left his wife for a mistress named Alexandria Parteyka,
00:32:40
who was also a doctor. And after Bailey's death in 1948, again, the murder took place in 1947.
00:32:52
It came out that, so he left this mistress all his money and the strange wife said
00:32:58
it was because he had, quote, terrible secrets that could have ruined him. And people are guessing that maybe he was,
00:33:04
he gave secret abortions, which were illegal at the time. And there was another theory a long time
00:33:10
ago that a doctor who gave abortions had accidentally killed Elizabeth Short, perhaps,
00:33:14
and that's where the murder had, you know, that's why he had to get rid of her body and not
00:33:18
report it is that he was getting abortions, which were illegal. But there's no evidence
00:33:23
to support that she was ever pregnant. So we don't know that for sure. But we do know that
00:33:29
Elizabeth Short used to tell men, maybe for sympathy, that she had a son who had died.
00:33:38
And it turns out that Bailey did have a son who had died and he died years earlier, but it was
00:33:45
January 13th and her body was found on the 15th. So, I mean, pure speculation clearly, but she's
00:33:53
pleading with him to help her with whatever it is. This person that her sister knows, her sister
00:33:57
doesn't live in town. She doesn't have anyone else who lives in town. Goes to the doctor of
00:34:01
her sister's friend or father of her sister's friend. And then if it was a woman, then maybe
00:34:06
she got jealous and killed this girl, killed Elizabeth Short. Maybe, I don't know. You know
00:34:13
what I mean? Yeah. Okay. Let's see. And so he was 67. When he died, they found a degenerative
00:34:22
brain disease he had. And it was known to produce violent behavior in otherwise passive individuals.
00:34:29
And then one of the things was like, well, how would he have moved her body? Well,
00:34:33
the body was fucking sliced in half. Maybe the body was sliced in half for an older man or a
00:34:37
woman to be able to move. To carry one piece at a time. Yeah. Or there's a drain of blood. Who knows? So, I mean, there's little pieces of it that I really,
00:34:51
really love you should uh feast of death is on i think it's on amazon it's definitely on youtube
00:34:55
it's a little you know fucking james elroy is like he's a bit of a drama queen yeah he's he's
00:35:00
too he's too dramatic for some good well he has his thing with his own mother which is amazing
00:35:07
like it's amazing he can talk about it but then it does add this he's very intense it's very
00:35:15
intense so you kind of like it's already an intense seriously yeah so his mom got kidnapped
00:35:20
and did they find her body or did they never find her? I think they did find it.
00:35:23
Oh, she was on the side of the road, just straight murdered. Yeah. And they think, who knows,
00:35:28
the murderer was never found. Yeah. So he's clearly, and he was a little kid when this happened.
00:35:32
He psychologically fucked up from it. I've read a lot of his books up into a point
00:35:36
where they like got too silly. Right. Where like the vernacular was just too like beat poet-y.
00:35:43
Yes. But before that, I fucking loved his books and I read all of them. They're great.
00:35:47
Yeah. But this, I mean, it's still a good, This is a good program to watch by yourself at night.
00:35:54
I remember watching something and I this is bad to bring up especially for our research heads but there was something I was reading and it was the theory and maybe this was a dramatized version but it was like the
00:36:06
theory that they took her to a place to murder her and torture her because clearly she was tortured.
00:36:12
What I read when I was looking to see if I was going to do the Black Talia, one of the things
00:36:17
I read really quickly was that she died from an injury to the head, but also those cuts on her
00:36:24
face because she had a smile cut into her face ear to ear and the bleed bleeding out blood loss
00:36:30
from those cuts could kill you yeah so she like just because it was so much bleeding wow um so
00:36:38
she was somewhere for an extended period of time just bleeding and she's being tortured yeah because
00:36:43
head injuries bleed a lot uh yeah i think so but then but also like you know cutting into your
00:36:49
cheeks. I mean, that thing. And also just to find that. I remember very first reading that story
00:36:56
and it's that picture of her upper body in the grass. The angles of those are so disturbing.
00:37:04
It's so disturbing. And to think, because wasn't it a mother and a child? Yeah. It was a mom, I think with a stroller.
00:37:10
Walking up on that thing. Yep. And they thought it was a mannequin. And there's a photo of it,
00:37:15
of the scene with her body covered with um just her body covered with a blanket and it's like
00:37:22
so obvious that the bottom part of her body is too long to be part you know what i mean it's like
00:37:27
they're not something isn't right with the length of her body and it's because her fucking torso her
00:37:33
lower body is like and did you see i had never seen really the cut really well until today yeah
00:37:39
It's pretty exact. Yes. Yeah. And I think, I wonder if like cops today would immediately assume it was like a doctor or
00:37:49
medical man that did it because I guess these days people can do much more and not have
00:37:57
any training. Well, you have to think of like a butcher could do that. Like a barber could probably cut like that with a straight razor pretty well.
00:38:04
Like I think there's a lot of professions that could do that. not necessarily, but could they lead someone that well?
00:38:12
Right. Well, a butcher could. A butcher could. Can I tell you that one of my grandfathers was a butcher in LA and one of my grandfathers
00:38:17
was a barber in LA. So it's probably one of them during that time. And there's also, there's a guy that thinks his father did it.
00:38:23
Yeah, that guy. And so that's the thing is that James Ellroy backed his story too and now isn't, which,
00:38:29
you know, that house is just down the street from here. Really? So this guy found photographs in his evil, fucked up father's possessions after he died.
00:38:40
And one of them was a photo of what he thought was the Black Dahlia. If you look at it, it's clearly not.
00:38:45
It's not her. I mean, but it's their similarities. And then, so this house that he had lived in then, which is in Los Feliz, there's a gorgeous Art Deco house.
00:38:55
It's incredible. had a secret room where this father guy would actually give abortions.
00:39:02
Oh. And they had put, he had like hired someone to bring cadaver dogs in when he was like investigating it and they honed in on that area.
00:39:10
But this guy's a little full of shit. I think he thinks his dad is also the Zodiac killer.
00:39:15
And like he's since gone on to be so unaccredible. but however the father did rape his daughter
00:39:24
as did he like let other people do it she took him to court and he got exonerated
00:39:32
so he's a piece of shit either way this guy isn't wrong about his dad being terrible
00:39:36
well and it's probably very easy for him to see and connect to things when it's like
00:39:42
and it would probably be very vindicating to be like he didn't just screw up our family. He's what everyone fears. He's this monster.
00:39:50
Yeah, he's a monster. Also, I think that whole story is fascinating because everybody talks about like, oh, come
00:39:58
to Hollywood, take the bus from Iowa and find your dreams. And it's that seedy underside,
00:40:04
this very real like, and here's the other thing that happens. Women are exploited constantly
00:40:09
And you get into a system of being beautiful and hoping that men, you know, you're appealing to men and then men will give you money and all these things that like that the culture kind of, you know, encourages or supports.
00:40:25
And but then if you get into that, you're the one that gets punished for it. And maybe you deserve to die.
00:40:31
And like, you know, she wasn't a prostitute, which is what they said in the beginning.
00:40:35
She absolutely wasn't. Right. But she did go out with a lot of men because she didn't, she would go out with them to eat because she didn't have enough money for dinner.
00:40:44
Like that's what, you know, that's what it's like when you come to LA to be an actress, really.
00:40:48
So that's not prostitution, but it's almost like, do you, it's the thing of like, do you live the kind of lifestyle that would put you at risk?
00:40:56
And that's, that's one of them. And if you do, then it's your own fault for eventually happening upon someone.
00:41:03
I also didn't know that her luggage She had Her luggage had been checked at the Biltmore Hotel
00:41:09
Oh really? And she's missing for five days Like there's no The last trace of her that anyone can
00:41:16
Confirm is on January 9th And her body isn't Discovered until the 15th So her getting kidnapped
00:41:24
Would make sense That's so creepy That's my favorite Unsolved murder Unsolved murder?
00:41:32
And isn't there a movie with Josh Hartnett and like ScarJo? It's based on James Elroy's book, The Black Dahlia, which is a really good book.
00:41:43
The movie was stupid, but I liked the book a lot. Yeah. So go read that. And we're back.
00:41:52
Do we have good news? Are there any case updates about the most frustrating cold case What if I was like yes and like didn you hear Karen And like yes Oh no I don pay attention to that stuff It was Paul Newman Everyone You didn get the Google alert that the Black Dahlia was solved
00:42:09
He has been distracting everybody with salad dressing. Oh, and charity. And his own death for so long.
00:42:16
So yeah, no major, obviously, case updates. This case is now 77 years old. It remains open.
00:42:22
And the FBI says, given how much time has passed, Elizabeth Short's murder will probably never be solved.
00:42:28
And also the Los Feliz mansion that I mentioned in the episode, also known as the John Soden House, designed by Frank Lloyd Wright's son Lloyd Wright, and where some people suspected Elizabeth Short might have been killed, was last sold in 2022 for around $6 million, which was down the street from where we were recording at the time.
00:42:47
That's right. It was like around the corner. It was on Franklin right there. And also that's the same house that we went to when we did a live episode that was for the TV show about this case and the doctor who lived there.
00:43:03
The people that they suspected kind of. Chris Pine was in it. It was really exciting to do.
00:43:08
It was like one of our first big integrations. Yeah. And the beginning of that house, that's like a once in a lifetime thing.
00:43:14
We were at that party. You, me, and Lizzie went to that party, right? I think it was just the three of us.
00:43:20
Yeah. And we were just kind of skulking around. We were so uncomfortable. Because there was a full cast of this TV series was there and a bunch of other people.
00:43:28
And then there was a woman who was from TNT and she was very high up and she was talking to us and being like, we really liked working with you.
00:43:39
We'd love to do more stuff. She was telling me about stuff. and the whole time she was talking to me there was like a juggler guy who was no joke directly
00:43:47
next to my face trying to get me to like interact with him oh my god and i just pretend like it
00:43:52
wasn't there because i'm like this lady it sounds like she wants to do more of this with us yeah
00:43:57
like this would be the coolest thing ever but he wouldn't stop he is trying to harsh your mellow
00:44:02
so fucking hard it was one of the weirdest things where he was it was like a mime thing but i just
00:44:08
wouldn't acknowledge that he was there. No soul, the juggler mime. And I think I freaked the lady out
00:44:15
who was talking to me because she's like, oh, she just will not acknowledge this person.
00:44:19
Oh, I'm so... That's just what happens at parties. Like, why does that happen? And again, making this decision
00:44:24
of like, I'm just going to act later. He's not there. That'll work. Right. You could have pushed him in the pool
00:44:28
or like taken some other step. I could have said, sir, this is an important business
00:44:32
conversation. Well, you think he would have gotten that, but no. After fucking five seconds.
00:44:36
Yeah. But he just dug in. Who is he? Is he listening? What if he's listening? If you're listening.
00:44:43
Juggler mime. I love you. Mary Karen. You really made a moment in my life where I was just like, what a strange position to be in right now.
00:44:52
And we never heard from her again. We truly did not. They were like, thanks for nothing.
00:44:57
Oops. Bye. All right. So now it's your turn to do your unsolved case. This is the death of Elisa Lam in 2013.
00:45:08
While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
00:45:16
The future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed,
00:45:22
scoring from angles that don't make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust.
00:45:27
Because Next doesn't wait for an invitation, and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:45:32
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with ultra-fast charging capability.
00:45:40
And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics that change how people live to young athletes changing the game,
00:45:46
the future isn't some far-off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA.
00:45:53
Goodbye. Peace of mind can be hard to come by. Especially at 2 a.m. when your house suddenly makes a weird noise.
00:45:59
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00:46:08
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00:46:14
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00:46:20
Listen, Cookie is a really good watchdog, but she's not going to tell me what is actually going on,
00:46:25
if it's a raccoon or if it's a person looking through my windows. Like, you have to get this level of safety if you want to feel as safe as possible.
00:46:33
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If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about.
00:47:02
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00:47:30
Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Goodbye. So, Karen, I have a question.
00:47:39
Well, mine is also takes place in Los Angeles. I'm going to settle in and cozy for a story.
00:47:47
I went on a real rollercoaster ride with this one because there's, of course, when you look at anything,
00:47:52
you know, like I know what I, I knew what I had known about it, but I swear to God,
00:47:57
this second, you go on to Reddit. Oh, Reddit. There's, Just a world of people who have already done so much research.
00:48:03
I love you guys. Who are obsessed. I forgot to credit where I got a lot of this info.
00:48:07
Oh, yeah, you go ahead. Can I do it real quick? Derangedlacrimes.com, which is like, that's the best fucking...
00:48:12
Derangedlacrimes.com? It made me think of that because of Reddit, which is like deranged and I love it.
00:48:18
Yes. Okay, sorry. So wait, that's a good website to go to for stuff like that? It seems like it's a fun blog.
00:48:24
Yeah. Okay, cool. Yeah, no, this is... I had my assumptions and I was kind of writing what I thought was going on.
00:48:31
And then a link led me to Reddit. And then it's just all these people are like, I already looked at that and da, da, da.
00:48:37
And it's just theory, theory, theory. And here's why it couldn't be this. And here's, yeah.
00:48:40
It's fascinating. So this is the story of Elisa Lam. And she is the one who, she is the 21-year-old Canadian student who took a trip to, she called it her West Coast tour.
00:48:54
She had been in San Diego. She was stopping over in LA before she was going up north.
00:49:01
And she checked in at the Cecil Hotel, which is a hotel downtown near Skid Row that used to be fancy.
00:49:11
So she checks into the Cecil Hotel. And so she's traveling by herself. And so she checked in with her family every day.
00:49:24
And so the last day that The day she disappeared Basically She had gone to the last
00:49:33
The last bookstore And had a conversation With somebody there talking about books
00:49:39
She was bringing home hoping they could fit in her suitcase So Basically when the cops talked to that person
00:49:47
It was like no one thought that she wanted To commit suicide or it wasn't anything like that
00:49:52
and she was supposed to check out on February 1st and she never did. And so her family calls LAPD
00:50:03
on February 1st and says, we haven't heard from her in days. There's something very wrong. You
00:50:08
have to check this out. So they start looking into it and on February 6th, they have a press
00:50:16
conference where they say, if you've seen this person and they release, or no, they basically
00:50:21
show pictures and they say, if you've seen this person, let us know she's missing. And then on
00:50:28
February 14th, they end up releasing this now very famous footage of her in the elevator at
00:50:37
the Cecil Hotel. Now, this is what I remember because I saw this real time and this footage
00:50:43
was on the news. I think the sound was down and there's nothing creepier. There's no sound? Oh, because you were just watching it.
00:50:50
I was watching the news, but there is no sound anyway because it's like closed circuit.
00:50:54
I see. So you look up and this thing is happening. And this is on and it's like, have you seen this girl?
00:50:59
And this is the last known footage of her. Oh my God. And she is in this elevator and she looks like it's halfway somewhere between her playing hide and seek with somebody and her running from somebody.
00:51:14
Because she gets in the elevator, she presses all the buttons, she puts her back up against the wall.
00:51:18
then she peeks out then she jumps out then she does a little thing then she comes back in it's
00:51:24
playful and it's not it's yeah go on yeah it's just hard to it when when it's presented on the
00:51:31
news it's freaky because it looks like someone's chasing her and she's trying to get the elevator
00:51:35
to go it's chilling and then it already looks like a japanese horror movie without the rest
00:51:41
of the story exactly we've seen this movie before dark waters so then yes exactly so then uh
00:51:48
Five days later, after they released that footage, the people working in the CISO hotel had been getting complaints from everybody that was staying there that the water smelled weird and had a weird color and that the water pressure was really low.
00:52:07
So a maintenance worker goes up onto the roof and checks the water cisterns that are on the roof.
00:52:12
And Eliza Lamb's dead body is floating in one of the cisterns. um elisa what sorry elisa elisa yeah so yeah yeah is it elise or elisa elisa okay did i say eliza
00:52:25
i did you did but i said elizabeth smart so clearly we're gonna get yelled at by fucking
00:52:29
so many people uh we mean well um it's elisa it's elisa lamb so so it turns out so as they're as the
00:52:38
cops are trying to put this story together one of the first things that they learned was she was
00:52:42
bipolar and she was on like four different medications for her bipolar. So the tape from
00:52:49
the elevator immediately puts into everybody's mind, she's being chased, she's being pursued,
00:52:55
she's scared, she's freaking out because it's so weird. Well, then you find out that she's bipolar
00:52:59
and she's on this medicine. And the day that she disappeared, she had been staying in a youth
00:53:07
hostel style shared room. And she got moved out of that room and into her own room because
00:53:12
the other women staying in that room with her were complaining of her odd behavior.
00:53:17
I didn't know that part. Yeah. So she got moved into a private room because of odd behavior. So there's a theory
00:53:23
that she stopped taking some of her medication, but she kept taking others and she was taking
00:53:29
Sudafed and that combination, like there's some antidepressants or mood stabilizers.
00:53:36
if you mess around with the levels and add in like Sudafed, you can have a psychotic break.
00:53:44
So there's people who think that that is what happened. She basically was having a psychotic break
00:53:49
because you can have auditory hallucinations, visual hallucinations, and she basically got herself up onto the roof having all that happen in a manic episode You have all the synergy you don stop moving And it would make sense if she was messing around the elevator
00:54:05
So that's one very strong theory on Reddit. There's a person who absolutely is like,
00:54:09
this case is closed. Because the coroner said that the death was drowning with this special circumstance of bipolar,
00:54:17
like being the reason. But the thing is, the way she's acting in that elevator, you can only see one angle
00:54:26
which is inside the elevator and a little bit of the hallway but when she turns one time she jumps out
00:54:31
and this is like two minutes or more it looks like she's talking to somebody up the hallway and she's not in the
00:54:39
lobby sorry I'm dying of consumption she's actually on the 14th floor of this hotel
00:54:49
now as we all know the 14th floor is the 13th floor oh they just change it yeah and that and the Cecil hotel also
00:55:01
is a hotel that over the years has had so many jumper suicides that they stopped counting over
00:55:08
a hundred people have jumped off of the Cecil hotel um the 14th floor is also the top floor
00:55:14
so it's basically a 13th floor hotel and it's the it's the hotel where Richard Ramirez the
00:55:20
Night Stalker stayed in the middle of his killing spree in between San Francisco and LA.
00:55:28
He stayed there for a little while. It's a nice little cozy little family hotel.
00:55:32
And there was another serial killer who was Austrian who stayed there for a little while
00:55:35
in the 90s. So yeah, there's bad vibes and bad juju. And also, so they were saying there were theories that she had to be with somebody because
00:55:49
there was a lock. There was no access to the roof and it was alarmed. So people would have known
00:55:57
if she had gone up there. But then there is footage and this is why I love Reddit
00:56:03
because it's like so thoroughly researched. There's a Chinese tourist who posted footage
00:56:09
where he walks from the 14th floor up to the roof, up to the cisterns and there's no alarm.
00:56:16
There's no lock. There's no anything. I feel like that had to be for the hotel to not be liable. They said that.
00:56:23
Exactly right. Yeah. Because the parents were suing the hotel. But just the weird thing is, I mean, so there's lots of people on Reddit who are saying that they had had manic episodes.
00:56:36
And when you're there, you get these ideas in your head and you have a lot of energy and strength and you don't think, obviously, it's mania.
00:56:48
So it made a lot of sense to them that she would like suddenly see those sisters and be like, I'm going to get in there and swim around or whatever idea that she may have had.
00:56:57
Plus, I think like, I think just because there's something as alarmed doesn't mean that whoever turns off the alarm or notices it is going to then go check and make sure everything's okay.
00:57:07
Like those are, you know, in a fucking shitty hotel where it's probably understaffed, the alarm goes off, person in the lobby does the thing to turn it off and that's it.
00:57:16
Right. Right. But more likely, that's where, because they were saying that's where a lot of people went, like employees went up to smoke, that there was no alarm in the first place.
00:57:24
I bet even if there was, there was a prop opening the door, like holding the door open for people who smoked.
00:57:30
Sure. The other thing is when you see these cisterns, it's not like how I first imagined it, which is like one of those big wooden ones you see in New York on roofs.
00:57:39
it's four metal like 10 foot tall containers that are like they almost look like um they look like
00:57:48
something from from the war or whatever where they almost look like big bullets yeah so the idea that
00:57:55
you would look at that and be like i'm gonna get into that there's water in there like that's weird
00:57:59
to me yeah you wouldn't look at it and be like i'm gonna go swimming it just looks like a big
00:58:04
it's a bunch of tanks you wouldn't know what was in there yeah unless you had knowledge of that
00:58:09
somehow. One thing I thought was interesting that I found on Reddit was that in the video,
00:58:15
she's wearing someone's shorts. Did you see that? Yeah. Someone was like those, it looks like she's wearing a skirt, but they're clearly like board shorts or like cargo shorts.
00:58:25
And they clearly weren't hers or what the kind of clothes she wore because she was like a fashion
00:58:30
blogger and really into fashion. Oh. And did they find her clothes outside of the tank? No,
00:58:35
But she was naked in the tank, but everything that was in there was with her in the tank.
00:58:41
So I guess, I mean, who knows? That could have been explained. Maybe she stole them from the hostel she was at.
00:58:45
But the shorts that she has on in the video are- A guy's. A guy's shorts. Yeah. So yeah, maybe she met someone staying at the hotel also.
00:58:55
And fuck. I know. And there's definitely no drugs in her system, right? No drugs in her system.
00:59:00
and yeah and and yeah and all the all the things that would explain that like alcohol drug she went
00:59:08
to a bar that night but all the things that people all the theories of people saying maybe
00:59:13
someone drugged her that's why she was acting so weird um it doesn't it's they're not in her system
00:59:18
yeah they would have clearly done tests for that and here's the really irritating part they took a
00:59:23
rape kit but they never processed it um what because they just figured what's the point since
00:59:29
Since we know it's she did it, basically. So kind of never know. It's a little bit the perfect murder in that way if that's what happened.
00:59:39
Because she's in the water. There will be no evidence on her body. And can they tell exactly how long she was in there?
00:59:47
Was she in there from the night of the video? Yeah. She was in there for like three weeks.
00:59:50
So you probably can find a ton of evidence after your body been in the water that long No There was some tuberculosis drug Did you see that What is it that is the same as her initials It called the LAM test Right Elisa
01:00:11
Elisa. E-L-I-S-A. It's an S, not a Z. That there was an outbreak of tuberculosis on Skid Row.
01:00:19
That's just a weird coincidence. That is just like the weirdest coincidence I've ever heard
01:00:23
of my life that there was a test or something called the lamb elisa yeah it's just her name
01:00:31
it's her fucking name yeah what in the fuck is this world there's a couple of other alleyways
01:00:37
that i'm not going to go down now because i don't know them well enough yeah but you can all you have
01:00:42
to do is go on to reddit or go on to youtube yeah um and people have like talked through all of them
01:00:47
that are like, there's about like invisible cloaking and like all this different stuff.
01:00:55
Just theories. Do you ever, did you, I watched the video with my face so close to the screen to like
01:01:01
try to see any abnormalities or anything weird. Well, but here's what is interesting that the numbers on the tape, whatever that's called,
01:01:10
the time code on the tape is distorted and they don't know if the cops distorted it or
01:01:15
the hotel distorted it but there is a full minute missing in the tape what the people have studied
01:01:22
the time the like messed up time code enough to see when it clicks over to another minute
01:01:27
but like whatever so they it's this the tape itself is really really weird you know what
01:01:33
another thing about the tape being weird that i thought was really interesting was that she's
01:01:37
pressing all the buttons and the the elevator never leaves or closes the door because she's
01:01:43
pressing the elevator hold button. Oh, she is. Which people have gone there and tested it. It will hold it open for
01:01:48
two minutes. Oh. So she presses, she's on 14. So she presses 14, 10, 7, 4 or whatever. She goes right
01:01:57
down the center and elevator hold. Oh. So it's you can't figure out if she's playing a game
01:02:03
if she's trying to get out of there as quickly as possible. There are some people say
01:02:07
that's what you're supposed to do if you're afraid somebody's following you. Oh, because then
01:02:11
they won't know what floor you get off on. You have to wear a floor you're on and it'll open every time so you'll have every chance of seeing somebody else.
01:02:17
I've never heard that. Yeah. That is fucked up. And the other thing is they slowed the tape down when they released it to the public.
01:02:27
It's actually 125% slower than it should have been. So when you speed it up, I don't know.
01:02:36
It looks creepier when she does the hand movements and stuff. Totally. And they don't know if it's just to get people's attention or to make it look weirder than it is or what.
01:02:48
Or maybe like if there's some splicing in it, you wouldn't notice it as much if it were slower.
01:02:54
Exactly. If there's a minute missing, then you wouldn't notice it. Right. Do you think that she looks scared or that she's playing a game like in your heart of hearts?
01:03:06
um well i think i also read my initial reaction was fear only because she does that thing where
01:03:14
she puts her back up against the wall but then there wasn't there's a website who that's like
01:03:18
based on um body language oh yeah breaks down where she's very calm her like her body is relaxed
01:03:25
and everything she's doing is playful and relaxed and it looks like there's a lot of flirting
01:03:30
body language within the movements. Or that she's playing with a kid. Like, almost like, to me,
01:03:37
it was like she's playing with a little kid. Yeah. And trying to amuse a child. It's very childlike.
01:03:42
Although there is one part where they specifically say, this is like flirting. This is definitely a flirting movement of like,
01:03:49
she puts her hands up, but then she like reveals her armpits. And it's like a whole thing that's very,
01:03:54
it's like sexual preening is what they call it. And she's looking up the hallway.
01:04:01
So it's exactly where you can't see the person. Is she looking where the door to the water tower is?
01:04:06
Or is she looking the other way? I wonder. I don't know. That would be good to like go and stand there.
01:04:11
But I think in the Chinese guys, I mean, it literally is all in Chinese. I have no idea what he's actually saying.
01:04:18
But when he does it, he just walks you out the elevator and up. So it looks like there's another, you have to walk up more stairs to get up to that exit.
01:04:26
Or that the elevator doesn't go up to. Right. Interesting. Yeah, it's not like right there.
01:04:30
I mean, those places are never locked and they never have fucking alarms. To me, I think ultimately there is a good theory with the messed up videotape is so overt and it's so weird.
01:04:44
And like, why would you, why is it edited? Why is it slowed down? What's happening?
01:04:49
Why can't we see what's in that other minute? They tacked on just the elevator opening and closing at the end to nothing. So they left on footage that no one needs at all, but then they took out a minute in the middle. That doesn't make sense.
01:05:03
Do you think that's one of those things that they do where it's like they take something out that only the person involved would know in case there's ever any person comes forward with that information?
01:05:13
And they can be like, well, I mean, maybe she threw something or maybe she did an extra thing that only the person she was doing it to or with would know.
01:05:25
Maybe. But then why not just use 15 seconds? Yeah. Why? Yeah. It's being sold or presented as if it's continuous.
01:05:35
And that's what's weird. Oh, right. Like something else, something, the thing is going to happen.
01:05:38
Yes. And to me, it just, it adds up to, or to me, it points a finger. I believe it could have been a manic episode where she just found herself up there.
01:05:48
And that's definitely possible, but it doesn't seem that probable. To me it seems probable that there another person involved and that that person works at the hotel So he doesn have to be around her at any point during the day but he sees her at that one point in night and does something and then puts
01:06:06
her body where no one would find it. Okay. So yeah, possibly I get it. Or lures her in there.
01:06:13
Was she able to get out on her own when she got in there? Maybe lured her in there and then she couldn't get out.
01:06:19
So she did drown technically, but it's foul play. well but it's like he would like he would already be in it you mean no or been like let's go swimming
01:06:29
in here oh like it was his idea yeah yes possibly but then why would she throw all her stuff in there
01:06:36
oh god like why wouldn't if it's like a skinny dipping thing just leave it so all of her shit
01:06:41
was just in there in her in there with her yeah i don't know maybe he threw it in after her i can
01:06:47
close the door and later could have been that and also could have been if it was her idea by herself
01:06:52
to go in because she wanted to be in water. Once she's in there, it's hard to tread water with clothes on.
01:06:57
Take your clothes off. Yeah. Okay, so to be extra clear, because I did not state this explicitly in the episode,
01:07:11
the Los Angeles County Coroner's Office ruled Elisa Lam's death an accidental drowning with bipolar disorder
01:07:18
being a significant contributing factor. And then in 2021, Netflix had that four-part series, Crime Scene, The Vanishing at the Cecil Hotel, and that brought more attention to that case.
01:07:31
So very important kind of clarity where it's like, in retrospect, being salacious about essentially a mental health issue where no one helped and no one could help in that moment.
01:07:47
And that's an important factor is that ultimately, at the end of the day, this is a story about a young woman who is having a mental health crisis. And so in retrospect, in any way, being salacious about that feels really bad. And that is the kind of, you know, 2020 vision that we get to look back on.
01:08:07
And although I do think in talking about this case, it kind of opened the door for us to start talking about the importance of taking care of your mental health and the importance of not feeling shame about being on medication.
01:08:20
Yeah, definitely. It's funny. The thing you were talking about earlier about how open we are about therapy and how not a big deal it is, I feel the same way about medication.
01:08:30
So it's like it's so funny that it became a big part of this podcast is how open you are about mental health.
01:08:36
And it's like, no, we're from L.A. Yeah. I've been going to therapy since I was 10.
01:08:41
I'm Jewish, which is like you have to be in therapy and on medication. Yeah. There's no vulnerability for me with any of it.
01:08:47
No, what you're saying is you're a visionary is really what it is. I'm pro big pharma.
01:08:53
Well, also, it is a strange thing the way that therapy has come into just into the culture in a way that's obviously just acceptable.
01:09:04
Yeah. Thank God. Oh, my God. I mean. What are we doing? Why are we pretending that we don't need it?
01:09:11
Why is anyone pretending that this isn't the hardest life you've ever lived? Seriously.
01:09:16
Come on. For you, for all of us in context, it's pretty hard. It doesn't matter if you didn't have, you know, a fucked up childhood or, you know, things didn't happen to you.
01:09:25
Everyone is traumatized by this world. That's right. You know, post-industrial revolution, it's been a mess.
01:09:31
I will say this. since I was, and I believe I was eight years old, but I could have been nine or 10.
01:09:39
And I was standing on the street corner in Petaluma wearing a t-shirt that said Super Kid on the front of it
01:09:45
in the Superman logo because that movie had come out. And two, in my mind, teenage girls
01:09:51
who were like smoking and drinking, but I'm sure that they were 12 or 13, looked at me and went, the one girl goes, Super Kid.
01:09:59
And then they crossed the street. Devastating. That alone, that alone has haunted me.
01:10:07
There are difficulties that I've had to face. Yeah. It's in context. It doesn't compare.
01:10:12
You take anyone else's life and you go, Karen, shut the fuck up. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
01:10:15
And, well, you should. But in the context of my life. Destinating. I shudder when I'm on that street corner and I am in my mid-50s.
01:10:24
Oh, man. And that's life. That's how life punches your brain. Yeah. Yeah, your brain accepts and rejects, and sometimes it's not the right thing, and it's got a little bit of a hiccup in there, and you got to fix it.
01:10:36
You got to try to not hold on. To try to fix it, yeah. Don't hook in. Don't believe the story.
01:10:42
Yeah, yeah. But I am a super kid. You are a super kid, Karen. I believe in you. I believe in you.
01:10:48
Okay, so Elisa Lam, and we say this a lot, but this is one of those stories. It is not a mystery ultimately.
01:10:55
Yeah. But I think about it all the time. Because what I think about is people being alone in this world with having to deal with stuff like that, being alone downtown, having to deal with anything at all.
01:11:08
There's elements of the story that just stay with me and hurt my feelings and make me, yeah, that just—
01:11:19
It's heartbreaking. It's so heartbreaking. And it also is, you know, a lot of people that like to comment on true crime commentary, when they talk about stuff like this, it's like, there's nothing that happened.
01:11:32
She was just, you know, they try to like oversimplify or whatever, where it's like, right, there's nobody really knows what happened to a person in this horrible hotel that like so many horrible things have happened inside of.
01:11:46
And she is vulnerable. And you don't need a ghost or ghost hunters or a person standing there with a knife because mental illness is its own haunting.
01:12:00
its own threat. And so a person that vulnerable watching the elevator video or whatever,
01:12:06
all the theories aside, the pure story of it is awful. Just as awful. And scary.
01:12:14
So we have a hometown story on this episode. It's from a listener named Lauren, and she wrote in about the boy in the box story, which is famous. And I covered it in episode 362.
01:12:25
and if you listen, there are updates on the case. So here's the hometown. You want to go? You want me to go?
01:12:35
You go. So this girl's name is Lauren. We also told you guys we would stop saying your full names.
01:12:42
I totally didn't even think about that. Sorry. Sorry. I did not think about that at all.
01:12:46
I'm like, doesn't everyone want to be fucking loud and famous and shit? For real.
01:12:51
Just because we're fam horses doesn't mean everyone else. people are like could I have a little bit of privacy yeah we talked about your stalker and
01:12:58
then we okay I like though that a lot of people have adjusted in like in it they're they're signing
01:13:02
it like just with their last initial where it's like oh thank you you're helping me sorry guys
01:13:07
we won't do that again yeah we won't so Lauren S she says the one that gets me is the boy in the
01:13:12
box oh yes in 1957 a boy believed to be a five year about five years old was found on the side
01:13:19
of the road, wrapped in a blanket inside of a bassinet box, having been killed by blunt force
01:13:23
trauma. Worst way to go. He was freshly bathed, fingernails clipped, and his hair was crudely cut.
01:13:30
He had an old medical related scar. He had old medical related scars in addition to fresh bruising
01:13:35
and signs of past trauma. He appeared to be malnourished. No one had ever come forward to
01:13:39
claim him or with any plausible explanation of who he may have been. He's also known as America's
01:13:44
unknown child fucked up sad shit no didn't you tell me i thought we talked about it on here that
01:13:50
they found dna evidence to figure out who he was did i do that when we were it was like getting
01:13:57
it was at the beginning of the show update right so i just saw this one because i was looking up
01:14:02
unsolved murders and he came up there was illustrations of what he looked like when he
01:14:07
was found in that i mean clearly he was either in a foster situation it was in chicago right
01:14:13
It was in, I thought it was Baltimore. Okay. Or Philadelphia. Somewhere we can get just lost in the system.
01:14:20
But also two different people found him and didn't report it before the final person did.
01:14:27
The fuck, you guys? I think that like a hunter found it and then didn't say anything.
01:14:31
And then the second person waited a full day. Oh my God. The thing about him being found on a bassinet box is that that makes me think either at a home for children or a foster, like crowded foster house.
01:14:44
Crowded. Foster. Yeah. Yes. Television. Hey, Karen in Georgia. First of all, I love your show.
01:14:51
I love true crime. And I wish I had friends like you to talk about it with. Well, now you do.
01:14:56
This is from Alex H. So, okay. So this is a secondhand story. My mom told me recently.
01:15:02
She grew up in the Rochester Spencerport New York area And she lived there when the three alphabet murders happened Just a little background info in case you weren familiar Three young girls were raped
01:15:13
and strangled in Rochester, New York. And they all had double initials and their bodies were all left in towns
01:15:18
that started with the same letter as their first and last names. What? The three girls are Carmen Colon, 10,
01:15:26
disappeared November 16th, 1971. She was found two days later in Riga, New York,
01:15:31
near Churchville, 12 miles from where she was last seen. Michelle Manza, 11, disappeared November 26th, 1973.
01:15:40
She was found two days later in Macedon, New York, 15 miles from Rochester. And Wanda Walkowitz, 11, disappeared April 2nd, 1973.
01:15:49
She was found the next day at a rest area off of State Route 104 in Webster, New York,
01:15:54
seven miles from Rochester. These cases were also connected to another set of double initial murders in California,
01:16:00
one of the victims there was also named Carmen Colon. I don't know much about these in parentheses.
01:16:06
Same name? Yeah. There were a few suspects over the years, including Kenneth Bianchi,
01:16:10
who was ice cream vendor in Rochester and who later became one of the two hillside stranglers.
01:16:17
Another suspect was Carmen Colon's uncle. My mom was in third grade at Holy Redeemer Catholic School
01:16:23
when the first murder in New York happened in 1971. And she was in the same class
01:16:28
as the New York Carmen Colon's younger sister, Angela. And she had been at Carmen and Angela's house
01:16:35
just a couple of weeks before the murder for a birthday party. Even if you don't read this on the show,
01:16:40
you should totally talk about it on your show because it is some really freaky shit.
01:16:47
You're exactly right, Alex. That is nuts. I would, Karen, go change your fucking name.
01:16:52
Karen Kilgariff would have been later days. How many people changed their name in Rochester
01:16:57
around that time? do you think that had a second double? Little girls with a double letter. Because that meant
01:17:04
research. That guy was, that was like, what, do you work at a school? Did he work at a, yeah,
01:17:10
maybe he was like, worked at a school and you know, the weird thing is the towns that he left
01:17:16
them in. Yes. That's some fucking OCD shit. It's weird. And it's, you know what, that is,
01:17:21
that is the kind I'm the most interested in is that tricky hooked in, like that's that seven.
01:17:27
kind of stuff where there's theories and whole, there's whole storylines going on that no one
01:17:33
even understands or knows about. Well, that's what you want the murders to have because then
01:17:37
it is so much more interesting than there's just some fucking creepy, gross dude doing this. And
01:17:42
so it's like, okay, here's, we just need to solve this. And it's a really smart person doing all
01:17:47
these things. I mean, it sounds, it sounds like an obsessive thing that maybe the person doing it
01:17:53
doesn't even want to be doing it, but feels like a compulsion to do it. Yeah. You know, like it's like, you know how OCD people are.
01:18:01
It's like you're setting things right by doing these things over and over again.
01:18:04
Or you know how sometimes it turns out where it like their sibling who died had the double letters You know what I mean There weird they they acting out something else that had already happened their mom was abusive and had double
01:18:21
letters or double letters don't do it it's so random it's so random and and yet very specific
01:18:30
i mean what if it is it sounds i mean if there was a serial killer a now known serial killer
01:18:34
living in that time in that area at that time i mean it's probably him bianchi is it bianchi i
01:18:42
mean that's a very strange thing that that would happen there although he didn't they did like
01:18:46
teenage girls and older yeah but maybe these are little kids separately they did that maybe it was
01:18:52
the other one's inclination oh right it was antony anthony buono's preference to do the older ladies
01:18:59
He went along with it. But like, oh, guys. Guys, this has been heavy. We really want,
01:19:04
you know what I want more than anything is not to have any more topics to cover on this podcast.
01:19:09
Like, I just want this to turn into like a, start talking about like tea. Um, let's never do that.
01:19:16
Because we run out of murder to talk about, you know what I mean? Like, they just stop murdering.
01:19:19
We're like, have you ever had Moroccan mint? Yeah. Oh, it's delicious. It's great to sip
01:19:22
while crime rates go down. So this one does have a case update. On November 30th, 2022, the Philadelphia Police Department announced that they determined
01:19:35
the boy's identity using DNA evidence. And the boy in the box's name is Joseph Augustus Zarelli.
01:19:42
And I do that whole story on episode 362, which is called A Generous Number of Apples
01:19:47
for some reason. Yeah, that's when we really got into the naming. The naming really
01:19:52
found its stride. It did. And that's why we like to, on this Rewind episode, kind of review all the things that we said in this episode and then try to find the new modern day version of the title.
01:20:06
Right. Not trying to use numbers, which just quickly, quickly went downhill. I mean, ultimately, I'm right about puns. Ultimately, we all regret them.
01:20:16
Fair. But I do think it's just so funny that that's like now part of the My Favorite Murder universe is just people come and say, I've been listening since the pun days.
01:20:24
I've been listening since the number pun days. I know what you're talking about.
01:20:28
I've been listening since you set yourself up at the very beginning for a devastating fall.
01:20:33
Okay, so if we were to name it after something that was said during this episode, which is what we do nowadays, here are some options.
01:20:40
I literally remember this. So Alejandra picked these out for us. You can help people, you know, which is what the guy said when I came off the freeway driving home from Petaluma.
01:20:52
the entire front end of the car fell off at the light. I can remember what's so funny about that story
01:21:01
is that it literally is a little mini movie in my mind. It's beautiful. It was such a distinctive experience of like,
01:21:08
I was getting help, but I also was a little bit in trouble. You know what I'd love is for this guy
01:21:13
to teach some life lessons to the juggler mime about how to treat people when they going through something How about a little consideration where you and your miming isn the only thing that taking place at this party And like you got to ask yourself am I helping people right now
01:21:30
Yes. And I bet this guy would say, no, you're not. You're not helping. And, you know, you can help people.
01:21:37
You can help people. I do remember because we're watching the People vs. OJ Simpson.
01:21:42
But we did call it The Simpsons. We did call it The Simpsons. Yeah. The Burbank goodbye.
01:21:47
because remember and we said about we talked about in this episode the Brentwood hello
01:21:51
which is what Faye Resnick talked about so what would the Burbank goodbye be if you mentioned that
01:21:56
so Burbank goodbye is pretty good that is a great one oh real time real feelings definitely that's
01:22:02
you and your feelings about your wedding yeah and fix your pocket square which is you know
01:22:07
snot that's you setting out the rules of your relationship with your husband very early
01:22:13
This is about presentation. It's about photos. It's about squaring it all off. That's right.
01:22:18
Well, thanks for listening to this episode of Rewind. We hope you like them. If you do, please, you know, rate, review, subscribe, whatever the fuck.
01:22:25
That's right. And we appreciate you walking down memory lane with us and letting us process eight and a half years worth of feelings.
01:22:33
Yeah, we'll keep doing it if you keep listening to it. Yeah, you have to show up for it, though.
01:22:38
We're juggling your face with it. We are not going to just stand here silently while you juggle.
01:22:44
God damn. Are we the jugglers or are they the jugglers? What if that was supposed to be my second husband?
01:22:49
And I just wouldn't turn my head. Oh, well. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
01:22:57
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