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00:01:50
I thought that was always my line. I did too, but we can switch. This is our series.
00:01:54
You know it. We've told you all about it. We are going back and we're revisiting our favorite moments from the oldest episodes all the way back.
00:02:03
And then we're discussing them, talking about feelings, what it makes us think of now.
00:02:07
Basically therapy, right? Just continual talking about ourselves. And whenever we can, we'll add updates to the cases that we covered in the episode,
00:02:15
and we'll try to recall what we were up to at that moment in 2016. It was a while ago.
00:02:20
It was a long time ago. But we can do it together. So today we're rewinding back to episode eight.
00:02:25
There's a lot of firsts on this episode. And it first aired on Thursday, March 17th, 2016.
00:02:30
And it's called Eight is Enough Murders. Man. So gather your favorite coworker, your coolest roommate, and any metalheads in your life
00:02:38
and bring them to this listening party because now we can all be day one listeners with Rewind
00:02:44
with Karen and Georgia. So let's get into the intro of episode eight. And begin.
00:02:52
Here we go. Here we are. You ready to talk about murder? Because we are. Because we are murderers.
00:03:01
Hi, everybody. Hey, guys. Karen and Georgia, this is my favorite murder. That's probably the most uncomfortable part for me.
00:03:10
When we're talking not to each other, but to the audience, it's very unnatural. We're introducing something and clearly we haven't rehearsed this at all.
00:03:19
No, we don't have any radio experience. We're not professionals in that way. Hello, everyone.
00:03:25
Yeah. Word. Like you say a word and then I say a word and we'll go back and forth.
00:03:28
My. Sing Menon. Yes, exactly. Did you say by Menon? No. That's how good we are at this.
00:03:35
We don't have any kind of instinct toward what the other person's doing. And we always guess wrong.
00:03:40
Yeah. And we talk over each other. It's perfect. There we are. And yet. And yet.
00:03:44
We have a thousand people on the Facebook group. One thousand. I know. This is episode eight.
00:03:49
That's a very high number. And none of them are sexist, racist jerks yet. I hear, now I'm not on Facebook, brag, brag, brag.
00:03:56
I know. But from what I hear from Georgia, everyone is the coolest on our Facebook page.
00:04:01
They're all like, there's all these people that feel like they've come home and they can finally talk to someone about murder
00:04:07
and like, cause like their husbands and siblings and everyone thinks they're fucking weirdos
00:04:12
for being in the murder. And then suddenly they found their people. God bless you all.
00:04:16
Someone even said, hey, and anyone in the New York area want to have a murder meetup?
00:04:20
And I'm like, that's how you get murdered. Don't do that. but that's very sweet of you.
00:04:24
Yeah, that's easy to misinterpret in any direction. It can either be murder everybody
00:04:30
or have a murder meetup and then just murders. You're going to get murdered. I would just be super clear
00:04:35
with the wording in that meetup. I'd also like to say that we have nothing to do with anyone who gets murdered
00:04:41
because of this podcast. We deserve the right to... To not be culpable. Yep. Into perpetuity.
00:04:47
Exactly. Those are two legal words that I know. That was legal as fuck. It felt pretty great.
00:04:52
we had a murder meetup today we ate lunch before this recording we both had eggs
00:04:57
and talked about the Simpsons show which we're calling the Simpsons the new Simpsons, the people versus OJ Simpson
00:05:06
and we talked about that extensively I feel like I could talk about it forever I do too, I mean they are killing it
00:05:12
literally it's so great and I was telling Georgia that Patton Oswalt, everyone's favorite standout comedian
00:05:19
is now on Twitter actively praising Sarah Paulson for her performance as Marsha Clark,
00:05:24
nothing makes me happier. Do you think his wife is a little built like, get off of my fucking,
00:05:29
this is my, murder is my thing. Yes. And you're kind of stepping on my toes right now.
00:05:34
Like if she were going to be having a standup comedian all of a sudden. You know what I picture?
00:05:38
Michelle McNamara is just always in the other room with her sleeves rolled up trying to solve crime in real life.
00:05:43
And that's why she's my hero. She is such a badass. She's like, you can tweet whatever you want
00:05:48
because I'm in the real world. That's adorable. I'm being a fucking investigative journalist over here.
00:05:54
Go talk about your murder show that happened 25 years ago Right that people from American Horror are acting out now yeah it adorable yeah okay is there any little part of your brain that is like
00:06:06
open to the idea that oj didn't do it no okay just making sure i understand why people think that and
00:06:13
want to believe it um but i don't think that you can beat your wife up for years and years and i
00:06:21
think he beat his first wife up too yeah like you that as a pattern and as a as a you having
00:06:27
explosive anger and violent reactions to things plus as we all are starting to learn the concussion
00:06:34
elements in football sure that um lots of football players have these problems that could truly stem
00:06:41
back to like mental issues rage issues i don't think that that just kind of stops at a certain
00:06:46
point like yeah i don't i don't think that's a controllable thing or all of those things happen
00:06:50
and then just some stranger comes and kills these two people that, yeah, it doesn't, it wouldn't make sense.
00:06:56
Right. Especially with all the evidence. There would be blood evidence that would have, I honestly believe that that defense team that was just going to town
00:07:06
would have found other blood and been like, what about this guy? Yeah. Because they were scrambling and they got him off.
00:07:15
I mean, like. It's incredible. It's amazing. so if they if there was another person
00:07:20
I trust that that dream team would have been like here's the person here's their name
00:07:26
here's their blood that's a very good point but also I know there's just bias because I really love the fact
00:07:34
that I lived through it and now I'm watching it on TV I know isn't it it's funny when they're like
00:07:38
they'll be like a dramatic turn and you're like oh and you're like wait no he still gets off
00:07:42
like you know the outcome you know the ending Yeah, but yet it's still a great, that's the testament to the show is that it's so good.
00:07:51
Yeah. And they're telling you the things you don't know about it. Right. Which I love.
00:07:54
The only part of it that I am not into is OJ Simpson. Like, what's his name? To a Good and Junior.
00:08:01
As OJ Simpson. Yeah, he doesn't look right. He doesn't, I can't picture OJ Simpson when I look at him.
00:08:07
Right. For so many reasons. Someone just texted me that they saw Tracy Morgan when he talked on Keep a Good and Junior
00:08:14
dog. like Cuba is playing Tracy Morgan? Who's playing OJ. You know what I mean? But somewhere in there, Tracy Morgan is.
00:08:23
Well, very few men look like OJ Simpson. That would have been a really hard thing to cast,
00:08:27
I think. Yeah. I wish he was bigger. You know who should have played it? Who? Shamar Moore.
00:08:35
Who's that? Criminal Minds. Oh. He used to be on a soap opera. And the reason I know him so well
00:08:41
is because when I worked on the Ellen DeGeneres talk show, anytime there would be somebody would drop out like if there was an emergency they would always
00:08:48
call shamar more because he was an amazing guest he was usually available because he was on criminal
00:08:54
mind so he's always in town yeah and because he was on a soap opera he had the crazy high q rating
00:09:00
so we'd get spikes in our rating holy shit even though he wasn't like famous famous he was like
00:09:05
beloved wow yeah yeah i i'd like to see who was on that like audition list and if cuba good and
00:09:11
Jordan just got picked because for whatever reason. Well, because he is a good actor.
00:09:15
Yes. And like those times where he's in jail and like, yeah, there's great moments.
00:09:19
He's pathetic. But yeah, he just doesn't look right. Yeah, he has this great, you feel bad for him
00:09:25
because he clearly doesn't understand what's going on. Yeah. I like that character he's playing,
00:09:31
but it doesn't feel like O.J. Simpson to me. Right. Well, because there's too much.
00:09:34
Yeah, he seems bewildered and confused, which might be an act that like there's a reveal later.
00:09:40
I want to see someone that's a little more going with the story he's being given
00:09:47
knowing that he has an out after having killed two people but maybe that's just my agenda
00:09:55
I think that's true I feel like this week in The Simpsons we open every episode now
00:10:01
I hope everyone's watching the idea that you decided to call it The Simpsons is my favorite thing of all time
00:10:09
uh should we talk about our favorite murder yes so this week we were doing um strange ways to die
00:10:18
yeah um originally we were gonna we just shot out the idea we weird murder weapons yes and i
00:10:26
just like look i googled that and it's just like really boring stories lots of one-offs which i'm
00:10:32
not interested in like crimes of passion where a woman kills a man with the stiletto heel where
00:10:37
It's like, well, yeah, but that's just crimes of passion. Exactly. There was a good one of a guy who was like clearly grooming a 10-year-old boy to be like his child molest him.
00:10:48
Yeah. And the kid one day was like, fuck this, and took a pickle jar and smashed him over the head with it.
00:10:53
But then he stabbed him to death. So it's not like the pickle jar killed him. Right.
00:10:57
You know. It just stopped him for a second. Yeah. And that's the amount of the story.
00:11:01
Like that's the story. So I would have had no story to tell. Well, yeah. there's um when it comes down to it i was thinking oh i bet i could find a serial killer killed people
00:11:10
like a bow and arrow or something right that's just in the movies but yes exactly when you're
00:11:14
when you're reverse researching stuff like that yeah just stuff comes up i was also thinking of
00:11:20
hope there's gonna be there's a person i want to talk about in the future who is the sacramento
00:11:24
vampire killer oh right he's so creepy but when he actually killed people he just killed them with
00:11:30
guns. Exactly. So it all boils down to boring weapons. Listen, if you're a killer out there, you gotta get a little more
00:11:36
creative if you want to make it onto this show. Yeah. How about you do one of those
00:11:40
like in... Do you know what I'm talking about? In the line of fire, John... No, I always do that
00:11:46
when I think I know the end of a story. Yes. John Malkovich makes a gun out of wood
00:11:52
so that he gets the metal detector and he can kill the president He really makes a gun gun Yeah That cool No I was going to say in one where he I can remember
00:12:05
He kills people with the cow air gun. Yes. Oh, No Country for Old Men. No Country for Old Men.
00:12:10
Thank you. The best. That's... Yeah. Something like that. Someone needs to not do to us.
00:12:16
That movie is so fucking perfect. I've seen that so many times. It's gorgeous. And I don't like movies.
00:12:22
Gorgeous. And the idea that you would kill someone that lives. Yeah. It's so fucked up.
00:12:28
It's so fucked up and it's like not necessary because guns. Because guns. Yeah. All right.
00:12:34
Do you want me to go first since you went first last? Sure. But what if we have the same one?
00:12:38
Well, I would be shocked because here's what I did. Okay. Oh, wait. So the topic is now weird ways people have been killed or died.
00:12:47
Yes. okay so we have to immediately point out that it was said that the facebook group has a thousand
00:12:57
members and quote none of them are sexist racist jerks yet it's like i knew it is the example of
00:13:04
how we've all been here before we've all done this before yeah and you were absolutely prognosticating
00:13:10
because that facebook group doesn't exist anymore because there was a racist asshole that showed up
00:13:16
there and said something that once we knew what was going on was so disappointing and so shitty.
00:13:23
And then we just shut the whole thing down, which pissed a bunch of people off. It was like such an
00:13:28
online problem that we did not know how to solve. It's like we said, OK, well, we're taking our toy
00:13:34
and going home then because you guys can't play nice with this. Yes. You know, and I think that
00:13:38
was our panic and our gut reaction immediately. Yes, completely. So, yep. We knew can't have nice
00:13:45
things, as Marcus Park said, when I called him to ask for his help in that controversy,
00:13:50
and he went, oh, you still have a Facebook page? No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,
00:13:54
you can't do that. Thanks, Marcus. Oh, yeah, that's true. Thanks for the business advice.
00:13:59
Okay, so in this episode, we do the theme, Strange Ways to Die, and it's time for Karen's
00:14:06
story about cursed movie sets, which is just such a great idea. So I guess the one thing I need to
00:14:12
say about my story is that it wasn't an official source, but I do mention an article from a website
00:14:19
called cursed.com where I got some of the information about The Exorcist, although
00:14:25
Erin Brown tried to look it up and she couldn't find the article. So she couldn't like get,
00:14:31
I know. It doesn't exist. I imagine the whole thing. It's cursed. But it was that kind of thing
00:14:37
where I really wonder if there's a second source so that the things that I was saying, like, is any
00:14:42
of this proven did somebody just throw up an article and go like here's some stuff right and
00:14:48
just made shit up no it's like legend right there's like some legendary stuff from that
00:14:52
right legend versus fact okay right that's it yes it's what we're talking about no i see that
00:14:56
and i see the words have meanings right all right so let's uh let's listen while the world watches the stars at the fifa world cup this summer
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00:15:50
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Now available in Canada, too. That quince slash MFM for free shipping and 365 returns Quince slash MFM Goodbye I just take you down my thought process murder journey on this week So last week when we were talking about OJ Simpson we started talking about Dominic
00:18:08
Dunn. Right. Which I fucked up and said she got killed the wrong way. We both did because I
00:18:11
immediately agreed with you. But here's the thing. So I, and we once talked about this,
00:18:14
we were going to have a correction section where we go through because a bunch of people tweeted
00:18:18
at us to say, Dominic Dunn was killed by her ex-boyfriend who was stalking her, but she wasn't
00:18:23
killed by a fan, you are thinking of Rebecca Schaefer from My Sister Sam. That's exactly true.
00:18:28
It's what we were, but I thought of the exact same thing and I was right there with you now.
00:18:32
So I went to look it up to be like, okay, here's going to be our correction. Well,
00:18:36
it turns out that it was, they were very, very similar murders. They were both actresses.
00:18:42
Dominique Dunn was 22. Rebecca Schaefer was 21. Both murdered at their homes. Dominique Dunn was
00:18:51
murdered by her ex-boyfriend who was stalking her and who she was trying to be like reasonable with
00:18:56
and she actually the creepy thing to me about her murder is that she was doing everything she could
00:19:01
to like stay safe and there was a guy she had her friend over watching tv with her when the ex-boyfriend
00:19:07
showed up wanting to quote unquote talk to her and made her come out on the porch and so the guy was
00:19:13
like waiting inside thinking everything was fine because they're outside they're outside talking
00:19:17
then he doesn't see them then he goes out around back to see if they went into the backyard
00:19:22
finally comes around front and sees the ex-boyfriend standing over her strength he has
00:19:26
strangled her to death how are you how do you know if someone's going to be like a stalker
00:19:31
light or is it a murderer i mean i think the lesson we're slowly learning is that like if you
00:19:37
have an abusive boyfriend you have to break up with him and not get back together with him not
00:19:41
like you have to cut him out of your life completely because that's it's that that's the
00:19:46
mistake. I mean, not to say that she made a mistake, but she did get back together with him
00:19:50
once. You give him the idea and an opening to think that he's back in your life and has a way
00:19:56
to do it. And he's just... Yeah, that he can convince you. And he doesn't stop, which is
00:20:00
clearly not the woman's fault. No. But we need to be able to not let them come back in our lives
00:20:05
at all. Well, and in both of these cases, it's that thing of women being polite. Oh my God.
00:20:10
It's women thinking they're afraid to be a bitch or they're afraid to make a strong stand. So
00:20:15
So in Rebecca Schaefer's case, it was a stalker who'd been stalking her for three years and who ended up hiring a private investigator to find her home address.
00:20:25
And so that was actually after her murder between that and the Teresa Saldana attack, which she didn't die.
00:20:31
That was the woman who's the co-star of Raging Bull who ended up getting attacked by her stalker.
00:20:37
That's both of those. It ended up changing. they created the first anti-stalking
00:20:43
law in California in 1990 I believe because of those two things but those two things were
00:20:49
totally parallel they were just seven years apart but they were almost exactly the same so I was because I was like
00:20:55
we both made the exact same mistake that's weird and so I wanted to like look into it and that brought me down the road
00:21:01
because Dominique Dunn is most famous for being a part of cursed movies is she Poltergeist? yes
00:21:10
she was the teenage sister in poltergeist when she flips off the fucking construction workers
00:21:16
in her backyard and i was a kid i was like i want to be like that when i grow up yes um and both of
00:21:23
those girls were very like there were girls that when you watch them on tv or in movies you're like
00:21:27
i know that girl yeah like total girl next door yeah so i went into um cursed movies cursed movie
00:21:34
things so that's my thing that's not what i that's badass okay uh so poltergeist the trilogy
00:21:40
of movies they've um had all these deaths and tragedies associated with the movie love this
00:21:46
so i'm just gonna walk you on through and then i have two other ones okay get shorter as they go
00:21:50
no i dig it but we start with poltergeist um so dominique dunn was murdered uh five months after
00:21:57
the release of poltergeist one the original poltergeist okay um and then poltergeist two
00:22:04
Julian Beck was the guy that played Cain That super creepy preacher And he Died of stomach cancer
00:22:13
At age 60 Right after that movie came out That was in 1983 That was Poltergeist 2
00:22:22
That came out in 83? How did I watch that? What do you mean? I feel like I remember seeing it in the theater
00:22:30
But I must not have That's too young for me to have seen have been too young yeah well there was three of them yeah you've seen part three where they were
00:22:36
in the apartment building no maybe i maybe we got it on vhs oh okay okay go on then in 1987 will
00:22:43
samson um who played in in poltergeist 2 played taylor the medicine man the bit who was the big
00:22:50
silent indian in one flow over the cuckoo's oh yeah he's incredible yeah he died of scleroderma
00:22:56
which is a degenerative, chronic degenerative condition that basically he ended up
00:23:04
like having kidney failure and all this stuff. So he died and he was only 53. Man, there's just like so many ways
00:23:10
you can die. Like if you, if you want to think about it a lot, there's just, there's all these things.
00:23:15
There's all these things. If it's not murder, then it could be a disease. It could be some weird gene
00:23:19
just clicks on. It's not, it's not could have, it's gonna. Well, you're gonna. That's really what it is.
00:23:25
Oh God. We're all taking time off. Okay, go on. Then the one that got this idea of this movie is cursed going is Heather O'Rourke.
00:23:34
Because she died when she was 12 years old. It was 1987, the same year as Will Sampson.
00:23:40
And it was before the release. And some people say before the ending of the shooting of Poltergeist 3.
00:23:48
So she was the little girl, but she's like the main character in Poltergeist. She's in the middle of shooting.
00:23:52
Carol Ann. Yeah. Carol Ann. She's halfway through shooting the third one? Yes. I think more than halfway through.
00:24:00
some people say they can't get it confirmed that there's a body double for the rest of the shooting
00:24:05
because she died. And they had diagnosed her as having Crohn's disease, but what she actually really had was a bowel obstruction.
00:24:14
So she got the flu, went into septic shock, and then cardiac arrest. They rush her to, I think it was Cedars-Sinai.
00:24:22
Holy shit. And she died on the operating table. So that's like a simple thing that could have been fixed.
00:24:27
Yes. And she was just misdiagnosed. And she was only 12. So that's when everyone started freaking out that there's something wrong with this.
00:24:35
Yeah. Like this whole movie is cursed. Yeah. Then a guy named Lou Perryman who played a small part in the first Poltergeist, Pugsley.
00:24:45
He was in 2009. He was murdered by an axe wielding ex-con who broke into his apartment.
00:24:52
Oh my God. Just flat out horribly murdered. Why him specifically? Or it just happened that way?
00:24:57
um they think it was just somebody trying to rob him but he like the guy had an axe and then just
00:25:02
ended up killing him or it was a movie or it was a cursed movie and it was just a man possessed by
00:25:07
a demon that's crazy okay then richard lawson who played the para uh parapsychologist ryan in the
00:25:14
original i liked him um yeah he's and he's been when i looked on his wikipedia page it just went
00:25:20
on and on. He has been in a million things and he still is up until 2016 release pending.
00:25:28
He's been in everything. He was in a commercial airline crash where there were 51 people,
00:25:36
passengers on the plane. 27 of them died and he walked away. So more than half the people
00:25:42
on the plane died and miraculously he walked away. That kind of is like a tragedy.
00:25:49
associated but it almost is kind of like well that freak accident it's a freak accident that
00:25:53
he didn't die in so it's almost like well maybe he ended the curse if i were him i would never
00:25:58
leave the house well but or would it be that thing where i survived a fucking plane crash
00:26:05
that other people didn't that's true i'm invincible or whatever that's true um but also
00:26:10
turned out and joe beth williams talked about this in an interview she did once that she found out after so you know that huge crazy scene at the end where they fall in that
00:26:19
they fall into the pool and there's all the skeletons those were real human skeletons that
00:26:25
they used because apparently that a rubber skeleton remake is more expensive than just
00:26:31
using real ones who gave them skeletons i am they probably bought them from prop house or whatever
00:26:36
but a lot of people think that that has something to do sure with it but then also um they say that
00:26:45
the remake that they just came out with, my boyfriend, Sam Rockwell, that they shot it on
00:26:52
a house that had a big field behind it. So they could kind of like recreate all that stuff. And
00:26:57
apparently they couldn't get any of the electronic stuff to work in this field. They couldn't get,
00:27:04
they were using drones to shoot overhead shots and the drones wouldn't work. They wouldn't
00:27:10
register the field. Oh my God, I'm getting chills. Yeah. So there was like, there was a thing where
00:27:15
there's all kinds of problems and weird shit going on on that set. Oh my God. I'm like going to throw up right now.
00:27:21
Well, then that brought me around. That brought me to a cracked article, which if you don't go on to cracked.com,
00:27:27
you're crazy. Oh my God. It's the best website. It gives you listicles, but they're written so hilarious.
00:27:32
So well. And it's like Buzzfeed for smart, funny people. Yeah. And it's like the topics they do are just absolutely incredible.
00:27:38
Like the, the 10 scariest mysteries that are, cannot be explained or like, Oh, I love crack.
00:27:44
Or like 10 YouTube videos that are actually what they say they are. Right. Like truly scary and crazy.
00:27:50
Right. Yeah. Cracked is amazing. So that led me to this list and they had, it was like six cursed movie sets.
00:27:59
But I only did, because the next one that that turned me on to was The Exorcist.
00:28:03
Oh shit. Which it makes sense. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, oh, it makes sense that this is cursed.
00:28:07
Yeah. It's not like My Fair Lady was cursed. It's like fucked up movies, like The Exorcist.
00:28:13
and this one's crazy oh my god i want to hear i don't know this um so it's actresses was shot in
00:28:20
1973 or came out in 1973 it was shot the year before okay um i'll just start here the shooting
00:28:26
was delayed after the set caught fire so there's a set of their house if you've seen the movie if
00:28:31
you haven't seen the movie you have to it's the scariest movie it's so 70s and it's so like it's
00:28:37
not scary because things are popping out like it gets scary obviously later when she's possessed but
00:28:42
in the beginning, it's just all tone and feel. It's like lighting, lighting and music and yeah,
00:28:49
tone. And when they bring Regan to the hospital to see what's wrong with her, there's a part
00:28:53
where she's in like this MRI machine thing that is one of the scariest things. And it's just medical
00:28:58
equipment. There's nothing actually happening, but it's like, you know, they just
00:29:03
did it perfectly. No, man, they don't need drones to make a fucking movie cool anymore.
00:29:07
Right. I mean, back then. So this set caught on fire for no reason. The only thing that they can figure out was they thought maybe a pigeon landed in like the breaker boxes, like the electrical boxes.
00:29:20
Oh my God. But other than that, they couldn't figure out a reason why it would catch on fire.
00:29:24
And the only room that didn't burn was Reagan's room, which is where all the possession, demonic shit takes place at the end of the movie.
00:29:31
I quit the movie at that point. It didn't burn. Everything else in the house burned.
00:29:35
That's just insane. So shooting was delayed because of that. Then, and I read a couple different versions of this story, but the one that seemed the most consistent was that it happened to Ellen Burstyn.
00:29:46
So there's a scene where when Regan is totally possessed, she throws her mother against the wall.
00:29:52
And in the movie she gets thrown against the wall falls down and there this blood scream Well it because Ellen Burstyn the way it happened she broke her spine and the scream is real
00:30:05
Oh, I hate... I feel like there's a scene in Jaws, too. I feel like in the 70s and 80s,
00:30:09
they were like, let's just use it. We didn't do that right, and the person is screaming because they're in pain.
00:30:14
Exactly, and it's like, what better kind of blood-curdling scream as opposed to somebody standing in a recording game
00:30:20
screaming? It's her real scream of her spine breaking. It's realistic because it's real.
00:30:26
Because it happens. That's awful. This was one of the first movies that ever used
00:30:31
subliminal recordings. That's fucking awesome. Part of the other reason that it's such a freaky movie
00:30:37
is because subliminally they're playing tapes of bees, of swarms of bees, buzzing bees
00:30:43
and lions growling before they eat something. In your brain, in your old brain, you understand.
00:30:51
You can hear these like emergency, emergency, get out. But it's like in their lead up parts.
00:30:57
I love that it's not even like subliminally like a baby crying or like subliminally
00:31:02
someone getting stabbed. It's like subliminally shit that way back when, when we were fucking animals.
00:31:07
Yes. We needed to be afraid of. Run away. Run away, there's bees. Yeah. Love it.
00:31:12
And also there's that part where when Kara sees his mother coming up out of the sidewalk, out of the subway,
00:31:19
it's that part where she had died and he didn't see her and he has all this guilt and he keeps dreaming about her coming and like crying for him across
00:31:27
the street or whatever. In that scene, and I've actually watched it and paused it, they just flick
00:31:33
in for half a second this horrifying face. No. Yeah. And you can look it up online. It's great.
00:31:40
It's like, it looks like a really white face with dark black circles underneath and red,
00:31:46
red in the eyes and red in the mouth. It's horrifying. I want to start crying right now.
00:31:50
It's crazy creepy. Okay, so. So. Okay. Then let's see. Oh, so the actor who played the director.
00:31:59
So the plot of the movie is that Ellen Burson's an actress and she's in this movie.
00:32:02
And so all this shit starts happening while she's in this movie and she has to quit the movie.
00:32:06
Right. Well, the director of the movie is played by an actor named Jack McGowan,
00:32:11
who died days after completing his scenes of the flu. What? And he was 54. What the fuck?
00:32:19
just kind of strangely randomly just dies of the flu. What is this fucking fuck?
00:32:24
The woman who plays Karis' mother who is in that thing of like, she's an 89-year-old Greek woman
00:32:30
who literally got cast like, I think out of a restaurant, a Greek restaurant or something.
00:32:35
She died of natural causes like days after Jack McGowan died. Wow. They died within like six days of each other.
00:32:43
And they're the two characters in the movie who die. Oh, fuck. Oh, God. So then...
00:32:51
These are the other tragedies and deaths. Linda Blair's grandfather died while shooting.
00:32:58
Max von Sydow's brother died on the first day he started shooting. Holy shit. And he plays the old priest that comes to Father Karras.
00:33:06
Jason Miller, who plays Father Karras, his son was hit and almost killed by a motorcycle during shooting.
00:33:13
Jesus fucking... Mercedes McCambridge. I think that's how you pronounce her last name did the voice of the demon when when Linda Blair
00:33:23
is you know possessed yeah um in 1987 her son murdered his wife and children and then killed
00:33:31
himself whoa which is you know 10 15 years after all of it yeah still like it's just the curse
00:33:38
thing where it's like how many movies can you say have this many like a crazy tragedies and hideous
00:33:43
things happen um and this is the best at the premiere in rome uh they're at this theater
00:33:51
and across the street is a 16th century church and as the people are filing in to the movie premiere
00:33:58
a rainstorm and lightning storm starts going no everyone's in the theater and before the movie
00:34:04
starts they hear this crazy noise outside lightning had struck the cross on top of this church now it
00:34:10
had been there for 400 years and this eight foot cross falls off the church and into the plaza
00:34:16
across from the theater. Holy shit. That's not God being like, nope. Yeah. Or the devil being like,
00:34:23
how dare you try to fight me? So the last one is Rosemary's Baby. Oh, I knew it because I was
00:34:29
going to say it sounds like the plot of Rosemary's Baby, which is that the actor gets stricken with
00:34:35
blindness to get its role. Okay. Yeah. So yeah. And this is, if you look it up and there's,
00:34:40
you can find plenty of websites because there's a bunch of other ones and there's a really good
00:34:45
one, but it's not even cursed. It's just, there's that movie. I think it's Genghis Khan. I don't
00:34:50
remember what the title is, but it's the John Wayne movie where they ended up, they shot like
00:34:56
five miles downwind from where they were testing a bombs in the desert. So everyone got cancer.
00:35:02
yeah every fucking buddy got cancer and they took dirt from the set where they shot like on
00:35:09
a location and tested it and then they took it back and used it no in the studio set so like
00:35:15
everybody got cancer fucking i love shit like that i mean you know what i mean it's so terrible
00:35:21
it's just like the worst mistake anyone's ever yeah like that that is the most toxic dirt yeah
00:35:27
you don't want i thought you were gonna say they tested it and they found that they found that it
00:35:30
Nope, they used it. Nope, they brought it back and used it. Yeah. And also the female lead in that movie
00:35:37
was attacked by a black panther. Sure. The real animal. Yeah. Not a political activist.
00:35:43
I figured you wouldn't. I figured something would be different in that saying. Yeah.
00:35:48
A real got attacked by a panther. And the funniest thing to me was that that was like a one line thing.
00:35:53
Like I would like to know more about this Like where was she What happened What had the black panther had for breakfast Like I want to know everything So insane So on Rosemary Baby and this is a short one but just the man who was the composer died of a
00:36:06
brain clot a year after filming, which is the same way a character in the movie dies. Didn't he die that way?
00:36:13
In the movie? Yes. Oh, the composer of the... The real composer of the movie in real
00:36:18
life died of a brain clot the way the guy in the movie died. Holy shit. And then, of course, we all know Roman Polanski, who bought the house from Terry Melcher, who was a music producer who would not record Charles Manson's music.
00:36:34
And so Charles Manson sent his death hippies up to murder everybody, thinking he was going to kill Terry Melcher.
00:36:41
And he ended up killing Roman Polanski's wife, Sharon Tate, her unborn baby, and four other people, Jay Sebring, the famous hairdresser.
00:36:48
and Polanski was in London at the time. So he just by chance missed that. I didn't realize that there was a reason
00:36:57
they went to that house. Yeah. I think, I thought they just went there because wasn't it the heir to the,
00:37:02
what was it? The coffee fortune that lived there? Folgers. Oh yeah. I don't, I mean,
00:37:09
it was Roman Polanski's house though, I think. Yeah. She was there. She was there,
00:37:12
but I thought they went there to like, because it was rich people. I didn't realize they went there
00:37:16
because Manson was like, you wouldn't you wouldn't this is how he talks you wouldn't record my music amen amen yeah oh i
00:37:23
didn't know that reason but then once they were there they didn't care they were just like we're
00:37:27
killing all these people right but here's what i find interesting about that is that um that they
00:37:34
called the manson family called that helter skelter that murder spree which of course is a
00:37:39
beatles song and then john in 1980 john lennon was shot in front of the dakota the same apartment
00:37:45
building used as the exterior of the apartment building for Rosemary's baby. No. The end of my
00:37:52
thing. I'm just going to kick my glass of water over right now because I can't even handle any of
00:37:56
this. I'm just going to, I just want to kick it. There's so many good things like that, but that's,
00:38:00
I mean, I kind of went way off our theme. No, but there was a line, there was a, it was a linear
00:38:05
narrative that started with a murder. Yes. That we had talked about before. Exactly. So I deemed that
00:38:11
Okay. Thank you. Good. And also it makes me just want to say, we love it when you tell us if we
00:38:16
make mistakes because this conversation can be so dense. That's shit we're talking about sometimes
00:38:22
that obviously I definitely make those mistakes all the time. We want to hear it if you're like,
00:38:26
wait, no, that's not right. And we're only, I mean, Karen and I really only researched the ones
00:38:30
we're going to talk about. So if we're just randomly going off on a tangent about something
00:38:34
else, we're not going to have like be looking it up at the moment in the moment. Yes. It's called
00:38:38
research and we're not doing it. So we want you to definitely help us and add, because once I,
00:38:44
I saw a couple of people be like, I remember very specifically when she was murdered and stuff. So
00:38:49
then I was like, oh yeah, we should tell that story accurately. Yeah. That then led me down
00:38:53
that path. Just don't be mean about it because we have very fragile self-esteem. We will just
00:38:57
fall apart if you're mean. So during your story, you talk about needing a corrections corner
00:39:07
because we already have listeners providing feedback to the mistakes we started to make.
00:39:12
Well, yeah. How could we not make mistakes when we were doing stuff like reading one article and
00:39:16
then trying to retell stories? It's like... How can we not make mistakes when we're living life and it's so fucking complicated?
00:39:24
And all we're doing is talking to each other on mic. Yeah, on mic. It's four mistakes.
00:39:30
It is. But it is interesting that Corrections Corner then became a thing where like,
00:39:35
then Corrections Corner generated this idea. So it really is that thing of like,
00:39:39
don't be afraid to make mistakes and don't be afraid to be wrong. It's what gets you to your next thing.
00:39:44
Totally. And no one cares except for you. Pay attention to your mistakes and, you know, work on them
00:39:50
and you're not as bad of a person as you were before. Use the creative ideas that are inside of them.
00:39:56
That's right. They're like beautiful marbles, you know, every mistake you make that you could look at as,
00:40:01
you know, trash. Or you could put in a big, tall glass and stick some lilies into.
00:40:08
And then have someone at the fair count how many marbles they're in and then win that jar of marbles.
00:40:14
Then you win marbles. That's life. That's life, isn't it, kid? What the fuck are we talking about?
00:40:19
Okay, now we're going on to Georgia's story. I feel like we're saying this every episode of Rewind, but man, is this one one that sticks with you.
00:40:29
This one sticks with you. It's so frustrating. Yeah, it's really frustrating. My research is sparse, but I looked at a lot of Reddit posts.
00:40:38
So that's great. Yeah. And listened to the Generation Y podcast about the case and had just, yeah, I had been reading about it for so long.
00:40:45
So here's the story of the death of Rebecca Zahal. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer, Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent.
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anywhere. For whatever happens next, grab Kleenex snap and go. Goodbye. Um, so this is the murder
00:43:16
of Rebecca Zahau. Zahau? Zahau, I'm going to say. What's the spelling? Z-A-H-A-U.
00:43:27
Yeah, Zahau. I'd say. Rebecca Zahau. And it's also called the Coronado House Murder.
00:43:33
Have you heard of this one? No. Okay, I'm going to start from the very beginning.
00:43:37
I'm going to start from the house murder. Yeah, this one's fucked up. I think I followed it as it was happening
00:43:43
because this is what happens first. The morning of July 11th, 2001, six-year-old Max Schacknau, six years old, takes a fatal fall from the staircase banister in his historic San Diego mansion called Spreckles Beach House in Coronado, California, in San Diego.
00:44:03
His father is a pharmaceutical CEO named Jonah Shacknow. And the 911 call comes in from Jonah's 32-year-old live-in girlfriend, Rebecca Zahau.
00:44:15
32 years old, Burmese. She's a live-in. She lives there. She calls 911 to say that Max was running down the hallway above the lobby-like entrance to the house when he went over the banister.
00:44:27
He suffered spinal cord injuries and head trauma and was in a coma. ultimately he dies 10 days later from swelling and cardiac arrest and the medical examiner
00:44:39
determined that the cause of death was accidental and there's if you go online there's actually this
00:44:44
like um drawing of what how he must have fallen and it's like it's you know like a mansion spiral
00:44:51
staircase fucking lots of you know marble and wood and he went over the side yeah okay
00:44:59
accidental okay well here's so while he's in a coma rebecca goes to pick up shack now's brother
00:45:07
adam at the airport who's there to like you know sit by his nephew's bedside um he flies in for
00:45:12
memphis and adam who's the ceo's brother is staying in the house in the in the back house
00:45:19
uh while he's there and that night there there was reports of really loud music coming from the house
00:45:24
that night. And while Jonah, the father, is supposedly keeping a vigil at Max's bedside
00:45:30
with Max's mom, Dina Romano, and her sister Nina, Dina and Nina, Adam is staying at the house
00:45:39
and Rebecca is as well. Okay, cut to the next morning. Yeah. So the next morning at like 6 a.m., 6.45 a.m., Adam finds Rebecca's body. She's nude,
00:45:52
hanging by her neck from an outdoor back balcony. Her wrists and ankles are bound.
00:46:03
And she's gagged with a blue long sleeve t-shirt wrapped around her head with the sleeves double knotted
00:46:09
and stuffed into her mouth. There's like a residue on her legs that looks to be like tape residue.
00:46:17
And she's bound. She's hanging by her neck. and her um let's see on the bedroom door where she had jumped out of this supposedly because
00:46:27
here's the thing the coroner ruled us a fucking suicide what yeah that's this is the this is the
00:46:34
thing like this is the murder i really think that max it was accidental and then this was vengeance
00:46:41
this might have been vengeance a suicide and on the on the the bedroom door someone had written
00:46:47
in black paint. She saved him. You can save her. Or can you save her? She saved him. Can you save
00:46:55
her? What does that mean? Nobody knows. There were four instances of head trauma, but ultimately
00:47:03
she died from hanging. So he deemed it a suicide and addressing the blood on her legs, because
00:47:12
there was also blood on her legs, the forensic pathologist identified the cause as either a
00:47:15
menstrual period or a intrauterine device, which is like the most insulting, but that's also,
00:47:24
yeah. I mean, what are the odds? Yeah. Right. Although, you know, if it's a really bad period,
00:47:31
you might just want to kill yourself. Sorry. Terrible. Yeah. Or if you're raped. I'm like
00:47:36
baffled right now. Yeah. This is a baffling case, which is why I love it so much. And I remember,
00:47:40
I remember the kid, I remember the news report of the kid falling. And then two days later,
00:47:44
this girl, this woman. So Dr. Maurice Godwin, a private forensic consultant, told a reporter that Zahao's death had all the earmarks of our, quote, ritualistic killing,
00:47:57
and that the suicide had been staged. she's fucking bound and gagged. In Dr. Godwin's opinion, someone had
00:48:04
dazed Zaha with a blow to the head and then tossed her off the balcony. So, and of course,
00:48:10
remember I said that they had heard loud, the neighbors had heard loud music coming from the house that night.
00:48:14
So maybe covering up screams, which the neighbor also heard. Oh, really? Yeah. So that night,
00:48:22
the night that she died, at 1048 PM, Zaha received a text message from Nina Romano, the sister of the mother
00:48:28
of Max. And Nina stated that she wanted to stop by the house and speak with Zahal about Max's accident.
00:48:35
And Zahal didn't reply to that message. But police said that she checked her voicemail a few hours later and listened to a message, deleted it, or it got deleted somehow.
00:48:44
And we have no idea what was on that message. So according... Of all the things they can do, why can't they find deleted messages?
00:48:52
It seems like a simple... You can find a deleted email. Right. This is like the making of a murderer thing.
00:48:58
Yeah. That drives me crazy. which part like why didn't they find out what was on
00:49:03
and those kids deleted the brother and the ex-boyfriend deleted they broke into her voicemail and then deleted stuff
00:49:08
and they're like oh well I guess it's gone forever where it's like how is that possible
00:49:12
it's impossible especially if if someone is missing you're not gonna everything could be a clue
00:49:17
you're missing a loved one unless you know what's going on and you deleted it on purpose
00:49:22
yeah totally everyone's not a true crime fanatic like we are those do um so according to a uh you know forensic analysis the expert he determined or a forensic expert the
00:49:36
note what was written on the door was written by a right-handed male and based on how high the door
00:49:41
was the person was probably six feet tall uh rebecca was only five three five foot three and
00:49:46
adam the brother it's not uh was the only man in the mansion at the time of rebecca's death
00:49:52
And how's a whole seat? Probably six feet tall. Oh, shit. You know? So according to the Generation Y podcast, which they did this on the subject, he had also spent the night, you know, in that back house, specifically looking at Asian bondage porn on his phone, which he had admitted to.
00:50:09
Oh, no. Yeah. And she was Burmese. Yeah. Beautiful, by the way. I'm sure. I mean, it goes without saying, but gorgeous woman.
00:50:16
So here's some stuff from Reddit. So the Zahau family is suing over wrongful death.
00:50:25
Because that's the official report? Like she committed suicide at the end? They've tried to reopen it and have them put a different...
00:50:32
Both deaths, they have tried to get a different cause of death. Like ruling, yeah.
00:50:38
Yeah, and neither of them have... It's happened. Okay. So they're suing over wrongful death.
00:50:44
And so here's some of the stuff from the lawsuit. the clothes she'd been wearing before being stripped and killed were never found.
00:50:51
Oh. Which is like, if you're going to kill yourself. And why would you strip naked to kill yourself?
00:50:56
That's... For real. And then hang yourself in view of your neighbors, which there's photos.
00:51:01
You can see photos of her body on the front lawn after this guy, Adam, supposedly cut
00:51:04
her down before he called 911. Oh no. Why would you fucking do that? Also, why would you bind your own legs and arms before you hang yourself?
00:51:12
Yeah. They said that it's been done before. It's not out of the question. They had a reenactment to see if that's something they could do.
00:51:21
And technically, yeah, you can do it. It can be done. They had a woman bind herself, do all of these things and hang herself.
00:51:29
But why the... You know, it doesn't make any fucking sense. Unless she was like into that specific kind of bondage and this was some kind of like,
00:51:37
here's my thing and now I'm on my way out. Well, maybe it was, I mean, maybe it's like, here's my thing. And it was accidental. Maybe
00:51:44
she was trying to set up her ex, her boyfriend or the brother, but why would she kill herself?
00:51:52
Because ultimately she's in question for this child's death. Right. So why would she be suddenly trying to set other people up for murder?
00:52:00
Totally. Doesn't she have hideous guilt? A six-year-old died. Yeah. And she was in a coma.
00:52:05
She was supposed to be watching him for sure. So she probably does feel a lot of guilt over it.
00:52:10
And it sounds like the mom and the sister were kind of crazy and like hounding her about it.
00:52:16
Yeah, I'm sure. No one believed it was an accident. But then, so then you strip down, bind yourself.
00:52:21
So then you take a handful of pills and you're dead. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And also I feel like she was also a Christian, which doesn't mean that she wouldn't kill herself,
00:52:30
but it also, there's some sort of shame there that you wouldn't be naked in front of everyone.
00:52:34
I feel like there's kind of a bit of a, what's the word? Well. You know, not being a naked person.
00:52:42
You mean like body shame or like? No, just being demure, a little more demure. Oh, yes.
00:52:47
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. Well, because then it makes it about a whole different thing.
00:52:51
It's perverted all of a sudden. Yeah, if you're killing yourself because you're so sorry.
00:52:54
Yeah. Then you wouldn't be naked and bound in a sexual manner. It seems like. So there's four blunt force wounds to her head, which they argued on her way down, she hit her head on the wall, which is like...
00:53:11
Postmortem? No, like right as she's dying, as she's hanging herself, her body flings into the wall four times and hard enough to give her blunt force trauma.
00:53:21
That's not going to happen. so the ties that bound her were nautical ties and adam the brother in the lawsuit it says he's
00:53:31
referred to as being a sailor oh this is all from reddit so i didn't read this from directly from
00:53:36
the case and the ties binding her the same paint from the message on the door as did her nipples
00:53:43
oh the black paint okay so the other thing is when she if she had to jump out of the window
00:53:51
with her full force, the bed that she had tied the rope to should have moved and it didn move enough Which means either someone was sitting on the bed holding it in place Someone moved the bed back to where it should have been
00:54:07
For some reason, if she had actually jumped, it would have been heavier. She had mud on her feet,
00:54:14
but there were no footprints on the balcony. Why did she have mud on her feet? That means she was outside and the back house.
00:54:22
Running barefoot. Right. but no fucking, so someone clearly picked her up and threw her over the side of the balcony
00:54:28
if there was no footprints on the balcony. And then there was a computer in her room
00:54:33
that was used after 3 a.m., which was later than the time she would have already been dead.
00:54:40
And no determination was ever made as to who accessed it. So a lot of people are saying
00:54:44
that this is like, you know, a wealthy man. They want to bury this. They don't want to bring this to trial.
00:54:50
The cops are corrupt. It's a really wealthy neighborhood in San Diego. they determine that her death is a suicide.
00:54:57
And they're like, and this is now this is done. And yeah, it asks any questions.
00:55:01
And not only that, but they keep going. Like when there's questions about how on earth could this have happened?
00:55:06
Why would this have happened? Instead of saying like, well, we need to look into that more
00:55:09
because that doesn't make any sense as to a suicide. They like give insane excuses as to like, you know,
00:55:15
well, people have killed themselves that way in the past or see like this woman was able to do it in a recreation.
00:55:21
So it must be how it happened. And, you know, no DNA means, and if she was hit over the head, she maybe was stunted and there's no DNA because there was no fighting between them.
00:55:33
She never, there's no defensive wounds because she was immediately rendered unconscious.
00:55:37
Yeah. And then tied up. And then tied the fuck up. Also, how do you bind yourself?
00:55:42
So say, let's go with that. Yeah. She bound herself crazily before she threw herself over.
00:55:48
So then your legs and arms are bound and then you still have to jump and get over the belt.
00:55:53
Yeah. Or whatever that thing is that she went over. But then paints a thing. If the paint is on her when she's bound and on the ropes and on her nipples,
00:56:03
then she must have done that after she painted the message. Right. Bound. Painted a message at five foot three that's up really high.
00:56:13
That's not really a suicide note. No. That no one really can understand what it means.
00:56:18
so uh they're saying that people have have bound themselves like that in the past when they
00:56:25
commit suicide but um i can't remember what i was gonna say first of all how many yeah one right
00:56:33
that's crazy right yeah one person was probably very interested in that kind of bondage yeah or
00:56:39
it was like a sexual thing gone wrong yeah or gave them yeah pleasure relief something
00:56:44
they were connected in some way. Isn't that insane? And that's just, that's it. Yeah, and that was two days after the kid went over the railing.
00:56:53
Well, also, the kid going over the railing, like in just picturing it in my mind,
00:56:57
knowing nothing about the actual setup, when you're six, how tall are you? Four feet tall at the most?
00:57:03
And if, I mean... So you're not buying it. They say like, well, he must have tripped.
00:57:07
That is shady too. And they're saying that later, one of the coroners said that he, it looked like he had been not choked, but that someone had maybe
00:57:19
like tried to stifle his mouth so he wasn't yelling or something like that. So there could
00:57:24
be total foul play going on there too. Yeah. That would, that makes the most sense to me
00:57:29
is like some kind of killing of that child, whether it was accidental or not or whatever.
00:57:34
And then they come back like 10 times harder of like, you did this. So even if that wasn't true
00:57:40
That it was accidental They still would come back that way And they would believe it
00:57:44
Because this is the new young pretty girlfriend That this kid is living with Dies under her fucking supervision
00:57:52
Supervision And so of course they're pissed And going to come after her Yes she's the ultimate villain
00:57:59
Also she had to go get Like in that Before she was murdered After the kid's in the hospital
00:58:07
the brother comes into town and she's the one that's got to go pick him up she goes and gets
00:58:11
him and then they go have dinner which i i want to be like well who the fuck is having dinner when
00:58:17
this kid's in the hospital but then i mean it's true who the fuck is having dinner i want to know
00:58:20
where they had dinner but i've been at a bedside of someone dying and you're like you have to eat
00:58:25
so you all go sit at this place and have a quiet uncomfortable sad dinner like that's that happens
00:58:31
It does happen. It's not like they went to fucking Chili's. Like, who knows? But I just think if I was babysitting a kid, a six-year-old, who then basically died under my care, I'm not driving to the airport.
00:58:46
Most people won't drive to the airport anyway. Yeah. Like, I'm not driving to the airport.
00:58:49
I'm not going out to dinner. No. Like, I would probably be on so many pills, I would be in bed permanently.
00:58:55
Yeah, me too. I mean, you're not wanted at the hospital because the mother is there and she fucking hates your guts.
00:59:00
and the family hates your guts probably anyway. Take a fucking cab from the airport.
00:59:06
Take a cab or some other relative. Oh, you know what? I remember, I'm sorry. Her sister was in town at that moment.
00:59:12
And so she had to take her sister to the airport, which still take a cab to the fucking airport.
00:59:15
Why is she running errands for people? She must be in like, okay, say she's a sociopath and she killed a child.
00:59:22
Yeah. That's the only thing that makes sense to me to be like, sure, I'll be there at eight to pick you up.
00:59:26
Or she's in shock and she's doing everything she can to be helpful because she just is like,
00:59:30
let me do what I can. Yeah, I guess so. Maybe not. I know. Yeah. So it's just baffling and it's really
00:59:40
frustrating that nobody seems to want to test for anything. Well, and if it's like
00:59:46
pharmaceutical money, that's like the most money, right? That's all. CEO of a pharmaceutical company,
00:59:52
that's all of the money in the world. That's all the money. And then he like basically going around It a Coronado Yeah Crazy rich part of San Diego Yeah So then it just like those people already know those people
01:00:06
He probably gives to the community. Yeah. To begin with. So they're just like, I've had a tragedy.
01:00:11
Now she killed herself. Can we let just lay all this to rest? Yeah. It's probably the storyline, right?
01:00:16
Yeah. Yeah. Like no one's going to come back. This is a tragedy all around. Let's just let it rest.
01:00:21
And her poor, like is she like a first generation for me yeah so her poor parents are just like can we get a
01:00:29
little something yeah it's like nope and everyone's saying you know the family's saying that's not her
01:00:33
handwriting she was not suicidal her sister spoke to her that evening not suicidal at all
01:00:39
everyone's saying she wasn't suicidal oh that is sinister yeah and even her ex-husband who you
01:00:46
would think would hate her because she actually cheated on him with her new boyfriend is like
01:00:50
trying to figure out what's happened to her. He's not even like vengeful in any way.
01:00:54
I know. I want to know more about that brother. Like what's his deal? Yeah. No, there's no information about what he does for a living, who he is. He's from,
01:01:03
I believe Memphis. Yeah. He's from Memphis. And it's kind of like, I think we all know people who have like the type of person who has an
01:01:12
insanely rich older brother. Yeah. That's basically like, well, now I get to do what I want.
01:01:16
Yeah, totally. Maybe for all of my life. He cut her down at 6.48 a.m. and then sent a text message to his brother
01:01:24
to inform him of the news. I would love to read that text message. Yeah. Hey, dude, your girlfriend's dead.
01:01:29
Would you text someone to say your wife is dead? Yeah, your girlfriend. You call.
01:01:33
You call at minimum, if not drive down to the hospital. What the, what? Yeah. What's happening?
01:01:39
This brother's sinister. I'm curious about the dad, the boyfriend, if he had anything to do with it.
01:01:44
Apparently he was sleeping at the Ronald McDonald house that night because he was, you know,
01:01:49
by his kid's bedside the whole time, needed to sleep a little bit, which is what the Ronald McDonald house is for.
01:01:55
And so he wasn't even near the house. And then the ex-wife was also at the hospital?
01:02:02
Her sister was at the house? The ex-wife was at the hospital with the sister. There's, you know, the speculation is that they came over
01:02:11
banging on the door to be let in. Rebecca wouldn't let them in. The message that was deleted might've been from Jonah
01:02:17
saying, let them in. That was deleted. So if they had that message saying let them in,
01:02:24
then they have proof that the women were there. But there's no proof that they were there.
01:02:28
I know. How fucking crazy is it? Well, there's no proof that they were there, but no one's looked for proof.
01:02:33
Right. Right. Yeah. Looked to prove a suicide. It sounds to me like there's no proof that the women were involved.
01:02:42
It just, it sounds correct. I think that this guy, the brother, is clearly... Was it sexually motivated?
01:02:51
It had nothing to do with Max. And maybe she rebuffed his advances and he got angry
01:02:58
and killed her. Man. And made it look like it was revenge. There's a lot of motives there. There's a lot of motives there.
01:03:07
And none of them are being explored. No. And then, you know, it's one of those things where in your head it's like,
01:03:12
oh, she was so pretty and they were rich and blah, blah, blah. And then you look at the photos
01:03:16
and this kid is like a sweet little kid. This photo of this kid, Max, who dies. The kid who dies.
01:03:21
Yeah, it's like the same thing with JonBenet when you're like, she was a beauty.
01:03:25
You see all these beauty pageant photos and then you see a photo of her like a normal person.
01:03:27
Like, oh, I was such a young person. It was a baby. Well, and also when children die,
01:03:33
people very justifiably go insane. It makes sense. Like any reaction, the idea that the cops aren't going,
01:03:40
look, there's a massive loss here. Yeah. The reaction off of this loss is understandable, not justified, not, you know, good or anything.
01:03:51
But going crazy. It's very clear motive. It's very logical motive. Yeah. Yeah. And, and getting and hearing, which they hadn't even heard yet.
01:04:00
It was accidental. They hadn't been told that yet because that wasn't until after he died that that got ruled.
01:04:07
Those women and everyone else are probably like, this woman is responsible. How the fuck did this happen?
01:04:13
You should have been watching him. She said she was in the bathroom when it happened.
01:04:16
She's like, you should be able to leave a six-year-old alone long enough for them not to do certain things.
01:04:22
They say like he tripped over the dog or he was riding a scooter. Weird shit. I don't know.
01:04:29
You don't buy that either. I know I'm picturing it inaccurately because I don't know the truth.
01:04:34
When you trip and fall in your six, you're tripping what? At the most two inches.
01:04:42
Yeah. You're not flying. Catch fucking air and go over the side of a railing. Totally.
01:04:47
But if you're a little, you know, you're playing around in a way you shouldn't be and you're
01:04:52
messing around and you're trying to climb over the railing even. Yes. Because you do stupid shit.
01:04:59
Did you forget your head caught between the banister, the railing? And I did. It was the most terrifying.
01:05:05
I still remember it. I mean, yeah. But then I go, how long was she in that bathroom that he's doing so much stuff?
01:05:11
It could have been a minute. But when you're babysitting It makes me think of Nora of course
01:05:17
My niece who's now nine But I babysat her a ton When it was just her and I And if you have to get up to go to the bathroom
01:05:23
You go, you put the TV on And hypnotize them and just go Stay right there, I'll be right back
01:05:29
You don't even close the bathroom door all the way No way Yeah, when I babysat my nephew who's a six year old boy
01:05:34
Very run by just a six year old boy I'm like, Mike, you good? You good out there?
01:05:40
Constantly call out to them Yeah. But technically she wasn't babysitting him. She was living with this person. And I feel like
01:05:48
when you're actually someone's guardian, it's not, you're not, you know, you and I are terrified of
01:05:54
killing our siblings like child and don understand that kids can be left alone a little bit more than we think they can Oh that true So but then again that not you know who knows how long she was living with them So was it only the two of them in the house and her younger sister who was visiting
01:06:09
Oh, right. Okay. I know that is. Yeah. If you guys want to look up, it's if you look up the
01:06:17
Coronado murder house, this fucking mansion is so ugly and you can see it's blurred out and I'm
01:06:24
sure you can find one that's not but her body on the lawn naked that's not you know that they took
01:06:28
from the fucking helicopters that's an unfortunate porn search that he did that night if he's in a
01:06:35
how is that possible that she's found bound and he looked up not even just bondage porn
01:06:41
asian asian bondage that's not yeah that is quite a that's too many things yeah be just
01:06:47
a simple coincidence totally oh man and then who was on her computer after 3 a.m
01:06:52
right after she's fucking hanging god damn it what can you imagine being a neighbor and waking
01:06:58
up and saying that oh my god fuck but he's the one that cut her down he's the one that found her
01:07:04
so he quote found her yeah in the morning 6 30 in the morning and what was time of death do you know
01:07:12
no like was it supposed to be the night before i think it was supposed to be the night before but
01:07:16
is your first instinct to cut someone down if they're clearly dead it's to run away and call
01:07:21
911. It's to call 911 in a panic. Not run upstairs, get a knife or whatever and cut a rope down so this person
01:07:29
who's, you can tell when someone's dead and not dead, then falls to the ground. Especially if she's, if you, let's say
01:07:37
you have something to do with it and she's bound, your first instinct is this is not a suicide, this is a murder. Why would you then
01:07:43
cut them down? Right, why would you, everybody knows that you don't contaminate a crime scene. Even if you're
01:07:48
not like us who are obsessed with this shit, you know not to fucking get your fingerprints.
01:07:54
It's law and order 101. Oh, and then there was also a knife in the room that supposedly he cut her down with.
01:07:58
No fingerprints on it. Why are there no fucking fingerprints on that? All this very specific stuff, I have to say,
01:08:05
is from Reddit, supposedly from the reports of the family suing the Shacknaus for the murder.
01:08:15
Right. For wrongful death. So this could be bullshit. it well what's interesting is like when i um when i did the uh looking up all that stuff on the uh
01:08:24
elisa lamb thing from cecil hotel last week it's most of the information people get ends up being
01:08:30
from those um wrongful death cases yeah because that's when they release the information and you
01:08:35
get it in court records right the files are open because uh when it when it's um a regular police
01:08:42
case, you can't get that information. And yet, isn't it fucking... This is a thing that's insane
01:08:48
to me that has nothing to do with any of this. The fact that 911 calls are a public record
01:08:53
is absolutely bananas to me. So you can't get all this information, but you can hear a 911 call
01:09:00
just whenever you fucking want. Those should be so private. I can't even stand it.
01:09:05
Those things bum me out so bad. I know. You can't stand them. I hate them. I don't think anyone...
01:09:10
There's one where a woman gets killed on the phone. No. Nope. There's a whole episode of Last Podcast on the Left
01:09:17
where they just do 911 calls. Oh, I skipped that one. I know. I've listened to every fucking episode I like.
01:09:23
I wait for new episodes. But that one... Yeah. That one I was like... I listened with my finger hovering over the stop button
01:09:30
because I was like, I know. And I never finished it. Because here's the other...
01:09:34
A couple of times on like 2020 or like Dateline or whatever, the ones that bum me out the most
01:09:40
are those fucking doctors that kill their wives and call 911 pretending to be upset
01:09:45
and it's fake and it's so obvious it's like if you've taken one acting class you're like sir I'm believing
01:09:52
nothing of this right now and they think they're so smart they think they are fooling everybody you know what we should do
01:09:57
I just thought of how fucking cool this would be make a fake 911 call just do prank calls to 911
01:10:03
for the entire show and then get arrested And then have the knock at the door of us getting arrested.
01:10:08
No, I wonder if, okay, this would be ridiculous. But if we played, let's say we played,
01:10:12
we had Dustin pick out 10 911 calls. Five of them were real. The person actually had not killed the person.
01:10:19
Five of them were like, later found out that the person killed the person. And then we'd take a test.
01:10:24
And then we have to guess. Why do we have to do 10? That's so many. Let's say four.
01:10:28
Okay. How about one of them is fake? Let's do three. I honestly feel like I could do it right now
01:10:34
and pass the test. I feel like I'm bartering with you. Okay, three. We'll just do three.
01:10:39
And one will be fake. One will be fake. But then we have to listen to two real 911.
01:10:44
Two will be fake and one will be real. I think it's because, and I don't know if I've ever talked about this on this,
01:10:49
my favorite all-time show is I Survived. Oh, I don't want to see survivors. So let's talk about this.
01:10:57
Okay, the reason I love it is because it's all the, because it's instead of being the thing
01:11:03
I'm interested in serial killing and all the crazy shit, which I want distance from and no relation to
01:11:08
and no personal understanding. And I survived. It's people that go through all that shit and are sitting
01:11:14
and most of it's like literally 90% women. The men are always there because they're like,
01:11:18
I survived a hike that went wrong. It's like, fuck you. It's always the guy that's like had his own yacht
01:11:24
and then he's like, I can't believe it. And the storm came. Like, don't go on a fucking yacht then.
01:11:29
And then there's four women who are like, just this guy came up behind me. Humans are bigger than I, most male humans are bigger than I am and can hurt me in broad daylight.
01:11:38
And so unfortunately I had a job and then this man decided I would die for that.
01:11:43
That's why I don't like it. Cause do you know the show, um, cold case, what's the one with the two
01:11:49
women who, uh, God, my memory is awful. Is it a real show or is it like a fictional? It's a real
01:11:55
show. Where they're, they're trying to solve cold cases. Cold cases. Yeah. And it's,
01:12:00
Is it relatively new? Yeah. I've never watched it. Okay. It's called Cold Justice.
01:12:04
Cold Justice. And these two badass women, one is a prosecutor. Oh, okay. And one is a crime scene investigator.
01:12:13
And they go to these like fucking tiny towns that have no money for, you know, for detectives
01:12:19
and people to look up what's going on and try to solve a cold case. That's cool.
01:12:24
Oh, it's incredible. And it's like so feminist. I love it. Because these chicks are badass.
01:12:28
So they started one called Cold Justice, but it's only rapes and sexual assaults.
01:12:36
So these women are survived. And it's just so depressing because their interviews make me hurt.
01:12:42
But you don't have to get an interview from the person who's dead. Right. Yeah, that's very true.
01:12:47
Well, yeah, I think a key to having this interest is distance. Yeah. It's too much to be involved in the victim's lives.
01:12:55
And that's normally how I feel. but I survived is produced so well yeah because you don't want to watch a person who survived
01:13:03
and can't tell their own story because they're still so fucked up yeah that's that is too much
01:13:08
to take on we all have enough problems it's also nice too when you're like when you know that the
01:13:13
case has been solved and they've caught the guy and he's in prison because they're still trying to
01:13:16
find the guy who raped them that's too much yeah like the stress in their life yeah on I survived
01:13:24
it's all women who most of the time at the very end they're like and then i started the victims
01:13:28
counseling center yes there are all these amazing women that like take it turn it around there's one
01:13:32
girl that like was kidnapped when she was 16 by this crazy serial killer somehow survived whatever
01:13:38
and she's a cop but yeah it's the everything becomes really amazing and inspirational like
01:13:44
how you can the worst thing in your life can become like you're basically your destiny does
01:13:48
it make you think too that you're more equipped to survive something that like that happens to you
01:13:53
because you're never going to be like, well, everyone dies from this. You're going to be like,
01:13:58
remember that girl? She fought this guy and she won. And here's how to... Oh yeah.
01:14:01
And once you know that's a fact, a true fact. That can happen. Yes. And also they all talk about
01:14:06
you do whatever it takes to survive. So if you have to play dead, if you have to,
01:14:11
you know, like they just, not justify, but they like explain like the things that a lot of survivors
01:14:16
feel guilty about, which is like, you know, then I got raped for the fourth time.
01:14:20
Yeah. And I did a fight or something. Right. No, you don't fight because he would have just slashed your throat.
01:14:25
Yeah. There's a thing. I always like, this is my big thing. It's like, just even if you get stabbed, don't get in the truck.
01:14:33
Don't get in the car. Don't go somewhere with the person. That's like the big thing is like, you're better off getting shot on the street than
01:14:40
not getting shot and getting in the car of the person who's trying to like do whatever
01:14:43
you fucking can, even if it's getting stabbed to not get in the car. Yeah. Because as soon as you're in their possession, you're fucked.
01:14:50
Yes. It's a good thing to know in your head. Right. But when the situation comes up, who the fuck knows?
01:14:55
Yeah, I'm not gonna. It so crazy Because also you go into shock I mean there a lot of people that tell the story where you just kind of like it all is so surreal that you feel like you dreaming um this is bringing up shit and we probably gonna need to talk to therapists about it yeah
01:15:08
is there something positive we can talk about did you ever i just snorted like snot in my nose like
01:15:16
a fucking third grader no i love it you're sick it's okay um they can go on to other podcasts
01:15:23
for plastic shit. There's like all kinds. Here, let me, Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:15:28
Want a cookie? Okay, that's, there, that's a positive. That's, okay. Elvis, cookie?
01:15:37
Okay. All right, well, thanks for listening, you guys. I'm sorry if this is, but please tell us everything.
01:15:44
You can email us at myfavoritemurder at Gmail. Please get onto the Facebook page,
01:15:49
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01:15:54
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01:16:00
on iTunes and rate, review and subscribe have you been reading our reviews? I haven't
01:16:04
we should see if we have any I did once and I told the story of how I fixated on the two bad ones
01:16:09
and didn't even pay attention to the hundreds of good ones that's how life is we shouldn't do that
01:16:15
shame us for doing that yeah thanks for Thanks. We love you. We love you. Stay sexy.
01:16:27
This would be a nice case to have updates on. Do you have updates on this one? Yeah, but nothing satisfying, which is so disappointing.
01:16:35
Investigators, as I said in the episode, ruled Rebecca Zahao's death a suicide. Her family still disagrees, and they're still working so hard to get that changed.
01:16:44
They brought a civil wrongful death suit against Adam Shackney, the brother of Zahao's boyfriend.
01:16:49
And in 2018, the jury in this case decided 9 to 3 that Shaq now was responsible for Zahao's death and awarded Zahao's family over $5 million in damages, which is just such a message, a clear message, I feel like, you know.
01:17:03
Basically, the family had to settle for $600,000 at the end of the day. And he has maintained his innocence and says he only settled because they were, quote, tired of throwing money at his defense.
01:17:16
Wow. Yeah. And Zahao's family has since petitioned the San Diego County Medical Examiner's Office to change her manner of death from suicide to either homicide or undetermined.
01:17:26
And that would help the case be reexamined by authorities and ultimately investigated as a crime.
01:17:32
Because I think the suicide ruling means no one's looking into it and won't. It's just so disappointing.
01:17:38
Yeah, that's a final ruling. But as of 2023 reporting, Zahao's official manner of death has not been changed.
01:17:46
This is one of those cases where I don't want people to forget about it because it's not done.
01:17:49
It's not over. And it needs a resolution still that matches, like, the evidence, you know?
01:17:55
If there was ever a case that kind of invited conspiracy theories this one big time Because it just it clearly doesn make sense And then when you know that people who have money to burn
01:18:10
you just go, okay, that changes the rules. That's not the same rules as regular people abide by.
01:18:15
And it's just so disappointing, too, that the victim in this case and her family
01:18:19
are being subjected now to somehow it being her fault that this happened, which is just so far from the truth in my mind.
01:18:27
Yeah. Allegedly. I would just love to see this looked into further and have the evidence examined more thoroughly because it doesn't seem to line up with the ruling of suicide.
01:18:37
Yeah, correct. Well, here's a bit of a turn. And it's also kind of bittersweet. Oh, my God.
01:18:44
This is the episode where you ask Elvis if he wants a cookie for the first time.
01:18:49
No, you say stay sexy for the first time. And I remember being like, we need to end this on something positive.
01:18:56
stay sexy was a good one. And then I said, well, I thought, why don't I do this thing that I've been doing since I've
01:19:02
had Elvis his entire life, which is asking him if he wants a cookie to get him to respond because
01:19:06
it's my favorite thing in the world. And we do it this first time. And I love that. I love that
01:19:13
we still do it, even though he's passed on. We still play his meow at the end of every episode.
01:19:17
Of course, he's the third lead. He was always there. He always said his line. Almost every time
01:19:24
or like, you know, after a little while. And so this is very sweet because this was the first episode.
01:19:32
And to celebrate that and also to celebrate the fact that in the very beginning,
01:19:36
in the early days of this podcast, Georgia was like, we have to make shirts. She just yelled that to me one day where I was like, great.
01:19:44
I got to go to my other jobs, but I will see you later. Let me know how it goes.
01:19:48
Well, the reason was because we were already getting incredible art from listeners for the show.
01:19:54
And it's like, this needs to be merch. So we have this incredible listener. He is so talented, Michael Ramstead.
01:20:01
And right from the beginning, he was giving us awesome art. He's at Michael Ramstead on Instagram.
01:20:08
Such a talent. And so we have a really cool little announcement for this Rewind episode.
01:20:14
This was Erin Brown's idea. It's just like, let's re-release merch from the episodes, like, relevant to the episodes or what you guys were talking about at the time, which we love.
01:20:25
So, limited edition, of course. The Elvis Rewind merch pre-order will close at midnight on Wednesday, September 3rd.
01:20:32
So, go to exactlyright.com, and it's a pre-order, limited edition Elvis shirt by Michael Ramstad.
01:20:39
Yay. Yay. All right, so now is the time where we end the episode with naming it what we would have named it if we hadn't been doing the number puns.
01:20:47
If we had been doing what we do now, which is naming it after some saying from the episode.
01:20:52
Right. So this is a classic you. God bless you all. Sure. I mean like where that shirt Why didn we go into full Christian merch God bless you all Oh the phrase Law and Order 101 which is essentially that everyone because Law and Order has been such a big part of our lives for so many years we all know you not supposed to touch or go into a crime scene in any way
01:21:17
Keep your fucking paws off of it. Very basic. Don't pretend. Don't go look. Don't go take anybody's pulse.
01:21:23
Right. And of course, also, we could name this Elvis. Do you want a cookie? Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind.
01:21:29
We've gone back. We've done the thing we said we were going to do. Yeah, you can count on us for now.
01:21:36
And then potentially a little bit into the future. Yeah, but not much. Thank you for listening to these.
01:21:41
The response has been really lovely, and we really, really appreciate it. It's so nice.
01:21:46
Thank you, guys. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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