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This is a story of greed, betrayal, and a fight for justice. Listen to Dr. Death the Cowboy wherever you get your podcasts
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or binge the entire series right now only with Audible. Goodbye. There's always a point in the day when your feet decide they've had enough.
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00:02:26
recap of our own show. That's right. On Rewind, we play the old episode, but we also reflect on
00:02:33
the past, let you know if and when we messed up, and update you on developments on the cases we
00:02:38
covered. And today we're going all the way back to episode 12. We named it Our Bodies Are Twelves,
00:02:44
which made me laugh out loud just now. Oh, brilliant. That's a real A+. It's from Wednesday,
00:02:51
April 13th, 2016. And the theme of this episode, we are still doing themes at the time,
00:02:57
is murders that kicked off our obsession with true crime. So good. Yeah. I mean, it's the theme of the show.
00:03:04
It is. It is. It's what we landed on. So go get your favorite intern, a crosswalk attendant, and maybe just also your dog and
00:03:12
invite them to listen along because now we can all be day one listeners. Okay, let's go to the intro of episode 12, Our Bodies Are Twelves.
00:03:21
name that tune do you know that song what's that that's the beginning of a song it's an 80s song it is i'll do it for okay i'm doing marching rhythm see the arms yeah
00:03:36
no what is it thrown in my side by the ear of next now i feel stupid oh no it's great
00:03:46
if everyone could see they're marching they would understand how crazy someone at home
00:03:53
is yelling it's the heroine there was someone that got it on the first note totally
00:03:58
the reason I was doing that everybody is because Georgia has gotten these beautiful mic covers
00:04:02
so now we can pop our peas we can pop any peas we please pop our peas and sing our song
00:04:09
welcome to my favorite murder the most professional murder podcast slash sports announcing podcast slash distant video game music and singing. It's going to be,
00:04:24
this is going to, it's going to take the internet by storm, this new combination of entertainment.
00:04:29
Do you think they can hear the, like the shooting helicopter video game noise coming from the
00:04:34
apartment downstairs? I don't know. There is a video game being played with that kind of
00:04:39
really high pressure music and definitely some version of murder happening in that.
00:04:46
It's a wall shaking like war video game. One would think I would be rich enough to buy a house.
00:04:55
You will be. And yet. Very soon. There goes a motorcycle. There goes a fucking motorcycle.
00:05:00
Is the motorcycle in the video game or is that separate? That was separate. Okay.
00:05:03
I mean, I've learned to ignore it. And then I realized that we're recording something and it's like, oh, that's embarrassing.
00:05:08
I think people like ambient sound. It makes it real. They know we're real. We're street.
00:05:14
we're real as fuck we're as fucking real as they get like this apartment complex the realest
00:05:21
super real uh let's talk about the woman who was found in a dumps in a recycling bin i mean
00:05:27
recycling bin is better than a trash can also idiotic i should have put her in a trash bin i
00:05:34
don't know if i can i don't know uh if it is it better yeah i mean it's like cleaner more organic
00:05:42
I just feel bad. This woman from Seattle, she has three kids. She's just given dating another shot.
00:05:50
Just trying to find someone who will love her and like her kids Are you trying to make me cry Because I will start I am That was my mom And she goes out with this guy to a fucking whatever the sports team is in Seattle game
00:06:06
And... Seahawks? Okay. And then goes missing. Mariners. There we go. And then gets fucking found.
00:06:14
That's the worst. It's awful. It's heartbreaking. Do you know if it was match.com?
00:06:20
Don't. Tinder? I don't know what, I don't know what dating site it was, But I know they had gone out a couple times.
00:06:25
So he wasn't like, it wasn't like a warning, like, don't go out with strangers. It was like, don't go out with...
00:06:30
She knew this person. So it was Christian Mingle. Or J-Date. And like, they showed a photo of the guy and I would never have guessed he was a psychopath.
00:06:40
What is it about the Pacific Northwest? I mean, seriously, this is like, I always think of Twin Peaks where it's like haunted forest,
00:06:47
bad spirits emanating from an ancient site and then going into downtown Seattle and just
00:06:54
fucking up lives. There's so much land in which to bury and hide people. There's depression
00:07:00
because the weather is so fucking dark, right? Like everyone there has seasonal defective
00:07:08
affective disorder all year round. Across the board. It's called depression. It's called
00:07:14
depression. Everyone's got it. And it makes them serial kill. No, it's heavy. I have to say the couple times
00:07:22
I've been to Seattle, I've had a lovely time and it's been in the summer. It's so
00:07:26
beautiful. I can't stand it. But it's always like LA people go there in the summer and then they're like, what are they saying about
00:07:31
Seattle? Everyone's wrong. And then you leave. I have a message for everyone in other parts
00:07:38
of the country. Okay. Move to Los Angeles. It's sunny. Literally, it's wet you make fun of. It's constantly sunny. There's no seasons, which I mean, you're like,
00:07:48
I love seasons, but you love it until mid-February. Yeah. And it's kind of dirty,
00:07:55
but in a way that makes you feel like you're going to be okay. And would you rather get dismembered or just like get a random bullet on the freeway in your head?
00:08:04
I mean... Pick one. Karen, pick one. Right now? Yeah. Yeah. Random bullet. Random bullet. Yeah. Although once you're dead, the dismemberment doesn't affect you.
00:08:13
that it affects your family. No, that's very true. Also, stuffing someone into a garbage can of any kind
00:08:19
is such an aggressive act of, there's so much hatred in that act. And it's vile.
00:08:26
It's amateur hour too. Because like, what do you, of course they're going to find this.
00:08:31
They're going to find that, which maybe he wanted that to happen. So he got caught.
00:08:36
I think they immediately like just went on her computer. I think, so what I think happened is
00:08:40
it wasn't premeditated. Oh, you know what I mean? Because he snapped. Because if he, if someone has that much information about you on their computer and like match that you were going out with that person that night and you went missing from there.
00:08:54
Yeah. Something went wrong. Clearly it's going to come straight back to you. Clearly you have an anger issue and you snapped.
00:09:00
Ugh. Here's the thing. Fuck everyone. Right. That's, we should have said that right at the beginning.
00:09:06
This podcast should be called, here's the thing, fuck everyone. Here's the thing, everyone, fuck everyone.
00:09:11
except for you guys. Thanks for listening. Except for our 2,800 plus members on our
00:09:19
fucking Facebook group. It's growing like a wildfire. And no one is a pervert. It's the best.
00:09:24
Well, just the one. No one acts like a pervert. Right. Yeah, exactly. They keep their
00:09:29
pervert, perversy private. They keep their private parts pervert. Like us. Everyone,
00:09:37
the Facebook group is like my, my, my bloodline. I love it so much People keep like taking quotes from us and putting them in beautiful settings.
00:09:46
Georgia keeps texting me the quotes that play into my ego, where somebody put a quote of
00:09:53
mine from this podcast over a sundial, which made it look so regal. Yeah. And like, it was like wisdom from the ages.
00:10:00
Yeah. And like the font is beautiful. Yeah. It's terrible. It's like papyrus. So it looks real.
00:10:07
People are just really hitting it out of the park in terms of their participation.
00:10:11
It makes us so excited. Yeah. Please go join the Facebook group. Yeah. It's good times.
00:10:16
I mean, it doesn't do any, it does nothing for us to make her happy. Like we're not gaining anything out of it.
00:10:22
No, I don't think so. Not yet anyway. I mean, we'll figure out a way to monetize it.
00:10:25
We're going to hunt all of you down and make us buy a, thank you, buy a t-shirt.
00:10:28
But right now we're just having fun. We actually are talking about getting t-shirts made.
00:10:32
So this is, this is going to be a real dividing line that the hardcore people, you will buy
00:10:38
and wear a t-shirt that says my favorite murder on the front of it. And then that's going to weed out the week of the people who say, I don't know if I can commit to public love of murder.
00:10:47
And then the fucking hardcore people are going to come to the live shows we eventually have.
00:10:51
Yes. Because we're definitely talking about doing live shows here in Los Angeles.
00:10:55
Yeah. So we would love to see you if that's something you'd be interested in participating in.
00:10:59
We would love for you to come. Let us know on the Facebook group if you'd come. Yeah.
00:11:02
We'll make it worth your while. I'm really excited about this topic, this episode.
00:11:09
Yeah. Because... I see you have, usually you have this, these like this crazy serial killer notebook full of writing.
00:11:18
Of my seven writing. And I think we both, and I usually have a few pages printed up, but we both have like only a little dialogue because, or a little writing because the dialogue around it is going to be intense.
00:11:29
Yes. Because this week we decided to go, the topic is the one that started it all.
00:11:37
And that is, somebody actually guessed this on the Twitter page. I'm sorry, I can't remember.
00:11:43
They don't want their names known anyways. That's true. But he said it was a guy and he said, why don't you guys, you guys should do that.
00:11:50
And I think maybe hearing us, because we mentioned something about that last week.
00:11:54
I don even know if we did because you texted it to me randomly And that day he was like you guys should do the one that made you interested in murder I felt like we talked about it on the last episode but maybe I could definitely be wrong
00:12:05
My memory is shit. I know, I'm minus two. I have no idea. But it doesn't matter because that was super ESP on his part
00:12:13
because that's what I had texted to Georgia and that is what we were talking about this week.
00:12:17
The serial killer or the murderer that kicked off our fascination with murder. It is rough.
00:12:30
Like hearing that the way we discussed a victim that got put in a trash can. Yes.
00:12:36
Yes. It is rough and we've changed, thankfully. I mean, I think it's a real reflection of two gals having fun and thinking nobody else would ever hear this.
00:12:49
Right. And we were basically, you know, feeling around for like, what are what is this and what are we doing?
00:12:55
Yeah. And it didn't take long. And it's it truly is thanks to the audience and audience feedback where we started to really get a sense of like, wait a second, people are listening.
00:13:06
And this is there's things that you can make jokes about and things you can't. Yeah, absolutely. I'm glad we did that.
00:13:12
And in this one, we read a letter from a listener correcting us for exactly that sort of thing.
00:13:17
So, you know. Which I think is really, that was a great lesson because we were saying prostitute.
00:13:23
That's all we were reading. Yeah. Or seeing anywhere or hearing on true crime shows.
00:13:28
And then someone wrote in and said, hey, it would be way better if you started saying sex workers.
00:13:33
Yeah. And it made complete sense. Yeah. We did it. We did it. So let's see. We get the classic, I guess this is the first time I ever said, here's the thing, fuck everyone,
00:13:42
which was like one of my favorite things to say at the time in my life. you know, 36 years old and fucking hating everything.
00:13:49
Sure. Well, so it was a reaction to that horrible story. Yeah, exactly. So it was, sometimes I feel like we would find ourselves in those moments of like,
00:13:56
God, this is bad. And then it just like, well, I guess we'll just try to button it and move on.
00:14:02
Right. Let's see. Facebook has 2,800 members. And then we said that they're putting quotes and funny stuff we say on cute backgrounds.
00:14:11
And now we know that that's called listener art. It's listener art. And we have boxes and boxes of it here at the studio.
00:14:16
And we are decorating the studio with them. So if you have something you want to send to us, feel free.
00:14:22
I remember the very first listener art that I could, I was so impressed by it. And it was George's quote, live, laugh, learn to levitate.
00:14:31
Which, and then it was just put on the most gorgeous background, like a sunset in the forest or something.
00:14:37
And I was just like, this is the shit. Top notch. Yeah. Top tier. So good. Okay, so let's go back to episode 12 for Georgia's story about the attempted murder of David Rothenberg.
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That's stitchfix.com slash murder. Goodbye. Do you want to go first? Do you want to go first?
00:17:23
Whatever you want. I think you went first last time. Okay. But I might cry. Really?
00:17:28
yeah this one fucked me up okay for life okay want me to go first yeah okay this is georgia
00:17:33
but can anyone tell our voices apart i don't know and there's a lisp the intense lisp uh and the one
00:17:41
who says we're like eight minutes and you're like this is georgia by the way if you don't know oh
00:17:45
someone was like someone drew caricatures of us on the facebook group and they're like i don't know
00:17:50
what karen and georgia look like but in my mind this is what we they look like and we we just look
00:17:54
Like it was hilariously ridiculous And someone was like just look at their like look at them on like Google them They both like public figures Which I was like so charmed that someone just found it
00:18:06
and doesn't even care what we look like. Did I have curly hair? Just by chance. It's always been my dream.
00:18:12
We both looked a little bit like Kathy from the Kathy cartoons. God bless. I was like, amen.
00:18:20
I like, I feel in my mind, I look like a little more like Pat Benatar. but really the reality is that we're fucking Kathy.
00:18:26
Reality is always Kathy. Reality is. All right. So, so the one that started it all for me is actually an attempted murder.
00:18:35
Okay. But I feel like it's the same thing. Cause it was attempted. It was like supposed to be murder.
00:18:40
And it happened in 1983. And I was. Hold on. Okay. Say the name right now. You say it.
00:18:46
This is one, two, three. David Rothenberg. Oh, thank God. Who's that? Is that yours?
00:18:55
Yeah, that's mine. Oh, shit. Oh, my God. And mine happened in 1983. Shut your face. I swear to God.
00:19:01
Is it an attempt at a real? Well, there was one. It's a mix. That's why I was like just staring at you like, holy shit.
00:19:08
One of these days. One of these days we're going to get the same one. Okay. Sorry.
00:19:12
I think we should like set like a rule that if we get the same one, like something crazy has to happen.
00:19:18
is we should have a third murder in an envelope that we just ran, have someone else randomly print up
00:19:24
and then we just have to read. Wouldn't that be funny if we had like random murders?
00:19:28
That we don't even know. Oh my God. That's fair. That was, that's very weird. That was crazy.
00:19:33
Okay. So in 1983 in Orange County, which is where I'm from. So I was only like, I was almost four at the time.
00:19:40
So my parents needed to stop watching the news because I fucking saw this entire thing
00:19:44
and remember it from when I was three. fuck um in 1983 a six-year-old you know so it's around my age named david rothenberg
00:19:53
was brought to a motel near knott's berry farm which is in buena park california by his father
00:20:00
charles rothenberg who was uh taking him his parents had divorced he was taking him on an
00:20:06
authorized visit. And that night, David or Charles, the father got in a fight with the mom on the
00:20:16
phone and said to her, if I can't have him, nobody else can. And then, and this has stuck with me
00:20:24
since I was four, he gave, the dad gave David a sleeping pill. You ready for this? Poured kerosene
00:20:34
on his bed. Oh, I remember this story. Yeah. Kissed him goodbye and struck a match as he
00:20:40
stood in the doorway. He watched from a telephone booth across the street as the fucking flame. He
00:20:46
said he was, he was going to kill himself too, but he was too much of a coward. You fucking light
00:20:52
your fucking child on fire, but you're too much of a coward to kill yourself. No, you're not a
00:20:58
coward you're a sociopath you're a psychopath piece of shit um so thankfully a bunch of people
00:21:04
in the motel dragged him from the inferno he said i mean the pain that this kid went through he
00:21:11
suffered third degree burns over 90 of his body he's not supposed to live if you see photos of
00:21:16
him today i don't want to i really don't want to say his new name because he changed his name
00:21:20
because you don't want his dad's last name so it feels a little like um salacious yes but you can
00:21:26
find him. And I remember seeing him in updates in the newspaper throughout the years, especially
00:21:34
because... So the dad was convicted of attempted murder, arson, and other charges. Karen,
00:21:42
guess how many years he got? Oh, God. Is it going to be something like six? More than that, but it's still... Twelve?
00:21:48
Thirteen. Ugh. So I remember in 1990, I distinctly remember the newspaper article was that
00:21:57
was a photo of the kid who's a little older now looking behind his back. And it's like,
00:22:03
if this guy gets set free, he'll always look behind his back and see if he's there. And
00:22:08
actually the dad said in 1990, when he was supposed to be let out of jail, do I deserve to be set free? And he said, no, it's an unforgivable act. Like he even knew that
00:22:20
he should not have fucking been set free. And I remember like, so my parents divorced when I was
00:22:26
five. And so my dad got custody of us like every other weekend. And I feel like it fucked up my
00:22:31
relationship with my dad. Yeah. Because this, you know, this guy could have been a drug addicted,
00:22:37
fucking crazy person already, but I wish my dad isn't and wasn't. But in my mind, it was like
00:22:44
just someone's dad, someone's daddy. Yes. And he, and he was still able to do this to him. So
00:22:50
it really fucked me out for the rest of my life. Wow. And actually weirdly, David, the kid,
00:23:00
the person who became a father figure to him, which is hilarious, is Michael Jackson. Heard
00:23:06
of the horrific circumstances surrounding David's accident and reached out to him and they became
00:23:10
lifelong friends, which is like another, so sad. It's very, well, it's sad, but it doesn't necessarily,
00:23:22
but I mean, nothing happened. I don't think anything happened. I don't think so either.
00:23:27
I don't think, I think Michael Jackson was inappropriately comfortable, but I don't think
00:23:33
he was i think he had an incorrect sense of what you were supposed to do like i think he had an
00:23:38
incorrect sense of himself yes and and of and i think he wanted to be around children because he
00:23:44
still wanted to be a child yeah and i think he was protecting this kid who suddenly just like that
00:23:49
got a lesson of what it's like in the real world yeah which is horrific and terrible and the person
00:23:56
that you trust you know sets you on fucking fire. I mean, it's, I feel like I know that story because it's probably because of the
00:24:06
Michael Jackson part or probably because it was like one of those stories, but like,
00:24:10
didn't, didn't he go on to like speak at schools? Yeah. He's like a, well, yeah, he's, he's a pretty,
00:24:17
um, he's a pretty big advocate. He does a lot of advocacy. Yeah. You know, he's turned it into
00:24:24
into good. He speaks out against child abuse and all these things. And he's finally, you know,
00:24:30
when your body is burned over 90%, you're, you have chronic pain constantly. And he found someone
00:24:36
who was able to relieve that. And he's like an advocate for that. And it's just, so, but his dad
00:24:42
served less than seven years of that sentence. Oh my God. Yep. He settled in Oakland in 1990,
00:24:48
but then he was arrested that January and charged with the attempted murder of an, of a man
00:24:55
and being a felon in possession of a gun. So I don't know where he is now, but I bet it's not in
00:25:01
jail. Well, oh God. Yeah. It fucked me up. The divorce thing and this, and the, like my dad
00:25:09
had us every other, every summer for a couple of weeks and would take us places and it was very
00:25:14
stressful for him. I feel like it clouded my childhood a little bit. Like this was a thing
00:25:21
that divorced parents. This is how they reacted sometimes. Yeah. That that was even just a
00:25:27
possibility. Yeah. Especially because it was, you know, 20 minutes from my home. Yeah. Well,
00:25:32
it's uncomfortable enough and hard enough for little kids. They don't understand why it's
00:25:37
happening. It's like the whole world changes. So why wouldn't that change too? Yeah. Like,
00:25:41
how can you feel safe? Yeah. My mom is angry at my dad and this is stressful for my dad. And so
00:25:48
people react crazy and it's unexpected and, you know, adults make it complicated and kids have
00:25:59
an easy solution to everything. Yeah. I'm sorry. What a terrible start in the world of murder for
00:26:06
you. That was a start. And then, and then unsolved mysteries was a thing that somehow my parents let
00:26:12
me watch. What the fuck? Were you a latchkey child as well? Oh, I was a latchkey kid. Yeah.
00:26:19
Yeah. Yeah. Me too. You just do whatever you want when you're a latchkey kid. Nothing. And we, I mean, I talk about this all the time, but like kids today and even young
00:26:29
people today don't understand how it was the wild west for kids in the seventies and eighties. It was
00:26:35
just like nothing was nothing was thought of through a child's eyes nobody was like hey maybe
00:26:41
we should throw up a warning before this show to be like don't watch this if you're by yourself
00:26:45
i learned how glamorous being bulimic was from lifetime movies yes you know that's right that
00:26:51
jennifer jason lee yeah um bulimia movie taught everyone how to do bulimia i learned that
00:26:57
relationships had to be insane and rocky from 90210 like they had to be dramatic and fucked
00:27:04
up and crazy. And then when I was like 22, I was like, oh, wait a minute. They can just be happy
00:27:10
and it's fine. Like I don't have to have like, it might even be better. Like a guitar riff in
00:27:14
the background. I only get like when I'm mad at him. Or like how Tori Spelling's boyfriend,
00:27:19
didn't he beat her up? He pushed her down and fucking fly to stairs. Yeah. Doesn't have to be
00:27:24
that way. Turns out you can just watch TV and get high and like, and really enjoy yourself.
00:27:29
Like each other a lot. And laugh. And it's cool. And really laugh your asses off. Yeah.
00:27:34
and make each other cheese toast. The best part of relationship to me is when someone makes you cheese toast.
00:27:39
Oh, I like it when people pick you up from places. Oh, like when you get to go do your thing,
00:27:44
but then somebody comes and picks you up. Do you know what happened the other night?
00:27:47
I was supposed to go to like a girl's night party at this bar and I was like, guys can come later.
00:27:54
But like Vince and I had spent the whole day together and like on the weekends, I have a hard time.
00:27:57
Like that's what we do. Yeah. I'm a little codependent. Anyways, so he drops me off at this bar, this dive bar where we're supposed to meet at five.
00:28:07
And I'm two minutes early because I'm Georgia and I'm fucking early to everything.
00:28:10
And I walk in and the light, the music is incredibly loud and no one is there yet.
00:28:16
And I call him. He had driven away and I was like, come get me. Fuck this. And then he drove back around and got me and I took a nap.
00:28:23
And then we went back to the party together where you guys were allowed. Nice. Because I just couldn't.
00:28:28
No. No, and you don't have to. You get to do exactly what you want. Any weird preconceived idea of how things are supposed to be, quote unquote, isn't the truth.
00:28:40
And you get to do what makes you comfortable and what makes you happy and exactly do things the way you want to do them.
00:28:46
If any teenagers are listening right now, what are you doing? Please don't do that.
00:28:50
I promise you, your life gets awesome. Yes. Because you get to choose whatever you want to do.
00:28:56
Yeah. Although I think kids these days get to so much more. That's like a revelation for us.
00:29:03
Probably most kids these days listening to this would be like, how else would it be?
00:29:07
Yeah. Because you have a connection to every human being in the world. Yeah. The pre-internet days were dark, my friends.
00:29:13
No, they were real. They were super real, just like us. Like we wouldn't be as awesome.
00:29:21
You wouldn't be wearing all black right now. We're the bigger wave jeans. this is my weekend goth look
00:29:27
casual goth well unfortunately we didn't have the same one I feel like that would be
00:29:33
I kind of feel like it would be majestic I feel like if we ever have the same one
00:29:37
we have to like treat ourselves to like an incredible dinner it's a celebration of our minds melding
00:29:44
if we ever have the same one we'll go to Musso and Frank's and get fucking steaks
00:29:48
and sand dabs it's like old fashioned food Let do it anyways We get Roquefort dressing Sides and sides of Roquefort dressing You know what I want Scalloped potatoes Yes You know what I want I want a dry martini
00:30:05
Girl. I want five dry martinis. Girl. Olives or onions? Olives. Fuck yeah. Can I just have that one night where I get to start drinking again?
00:30:14
Listen, let's have a... How about episode 15? This is episode 11, right? 12. 12.
00:30:22
episode 15 we'll celebrate by going to Musso and Frank's. I love it. The classic old school
00:30:27
steakhouse here in Hollywood. I love it. I'm going to wear a snood. I don't know what that is.
00:30:32
Yes, you do. It's the back hairnet. Oh. That holds all your hair in one little pile from the
00:30:36
30s, 40s. I want to say I'm going to wear one of my vintage dresses, but they are so tight
00:30:41
that I can't eat anything in them. And I have multiple times ripped open the seams in the back
00:30:47
of my dress. Why don't you wear your vintage sweatshirt? I'm going to wear a vintage sweatshirt.
00:30:53
I'm going to wear my vintage gap jeans. I'm going to wear my vintage pregnancy pants.
00:31:02
Yeah. Really that, that case, I just remember it happened in 1983. So I was maybe three or four
00:31:09
years old, but I, there were a lot of updates in the newspaper all the time about it. And so it
00:31:15
just always stuck with me. And then my parents divorced two years later. And I just, yeah,
00:31:20
I always thought about it. And my Marty is obviously not, you know, a monster, but it did
00:31:26
stick with me that that's something that parents can do to their children. And it just like changed
00:31:31
my little tiny couple years of life outlook. Yes, of course it did. And it feels like that's
00:31:38
the reason we now have those parental warnings on TV shows. Right. It's like you, you sat down
00:31:44
somewhere and got a big eyeful of media about this horrifying story that was not for you to hear.
00:31:52
About another child. And yeah, I mean, it was awful. All right. So some updates. In 1996,
00:31:59
David legally changed his name to Dave Dave to free himself of his father's last name and legacy,
00:32:04
which is amazing. Dave led a creative life, eventually becoming a conceptual artist,
00:32:09
a house music DJ, a music producer, rap musician, and music video editor. He eventually moved to
00:32:15
Las Vegas. And in July of 2018, he passed away from complications from pneumonia and he was only
00:32:21
42 years old. I think that's incredible that he like went and lived his dream and did the art and
00:32:29
the like things that, because it can be so healing when you actually go do things like that and really
00:32:35
express herself through art. And it just sounds like he found a spot. It's just that is a silver
00:32:41
lining for this horrible story. It is. He definitely flourished. Dave's mother, Marie,
00:32:46
ended up marrying one of the police officers who had supervised the fire investigation.
00:32:51
And in 1985, she co-wrote a book entitled David, which was later adapted into a made-for-TV film
00:32:57
in which Bernadette Peters played the mother. I feel like I would remember that because I love
00:33:01
I don't remember her so much, but I don't remember that. And then David's father, Charles, he fucking got 13 years and he served seven for that crime.
00:33:09
And he continued to build up a serious criminal record, including charges of robbery.
00:33:15
And in 2007, he was sentenced to 25 years to life under California's three strikes law.
00:33:20
And he's still there today. Yeah. Just a true crime. Everybody loses. This is a horror show.
00:33:30
what is going on. Totally. Story. And it's my hometown and, you know, like my first hometown.
00:33:35
Right. Yeah. All right. Well, let's hear Karen's equally awful story about Diane Downs.
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00:35:42
Where to next? Goodbye. Karen. Georgia. Karen. Here's my favorite murder from the jump.
00:35:52
I thought it was John Wayne Gacy because I always talk about seeing that picture At a very young age I saw a graph of how he buried the boys bodies in his house Right And it blew my mind apart But I realized before I saw that picture
00:36:08
because then I was like, wait, maybe it was Ted Bundy. But I realized the reason I read The Stranger Beside Me,
00:36:14
which was the Anne Rule book about her and Ted Bundy, I had read Small Sacrifices,
00:36:20
which is an Anne Rule book about this woman, Diane Downs. And I will now tell you the story of Diana.
00:36:27
Tell me everything. And this was a paperback book that I found on my mom's nightstand because my mom used to plow through any book.
00:36:33
She would read almost a book a day, almost anything. That's awesome. And she liked kind of pulpy stuff.
00:36:40
Yeah. And this one, I just started reading and she didn't notice that I was reading a book that I was probably 12 or so.
00:36:48
Yeah, but again, in the 80s and 90s, like they weren't as worried. They didn't understand what makes a crazy anxiety ridden person.
00:36:56
Right. You know what I mean? Yes, exactly. But this would in any way have like long term effects on my brain.
00:37:00
Their parents were in World War II. Like they didn't understand. Yeah, this wasn't, it was a book.
00:37:04
It couldn't hurt you. It wasn't a bomb. It wasn't an unexploded shell. Well, actually, I must have been 14 because this happened in 1983.
00:37:14
and she went to court in 1984. So then the book was written. So, but here's how it starts.
00:37:24
I'll read for my paper, my expertly typed paper. So on May 19th, 1983, in Springfield, Oregon,
00:37:31
27-year-old divorcee and male woman, Diane Downs. Again, Pacific Northwest. Pacific Northwest.
00:37:38
She went sightseeing with her three young sleeping children at 10 o'clock at night
00:37:43
on a school night. I know. You know this one? She was listening to Hungry Like the Wolf.
00:37:49
When she turned on a road she'd never been on before, she said that she saw, oh, because they were exploring, that they liked exploring.
00:37:56
And there she saw a shaggy-haired man who flagged down her car. So she said she pulled over and turned off the ignition and asked him what he wanted.
00:38:06
He said he was going to take the car and he opened the door, pulled her out of the car, reached in and shot all three of her children at close range.
00:38:17
She says that she then faked throwing the car keys into the field across the road.
00:38:22
And when he turned to look where the keys went, she jumped back into the car. He shot her in the left arm and then she sped away to the nearest hospital.
00:38:32
And at the hospital, her seven-year-old daughter, Cheryl, was pronounced dead. Her three-year-old son, Danny, was found to be paralyzed from the waist down.
00:38:41
And her eight-year-old daughter, Christy, had lost so much blood that she had had a stroke.
00:38:45
Oh, my fucking God. Real quick. I just want to get that out of the way. Okay. Okay.
00:38:50
So, almost immediately, the cops smell a rat. Sure. Because of the story I just told you, that's her official statement.
00:38:58
Jesus. They were sightseeing at 10 o'clock at night. Yes, as you do. As you do with your three children, one of whom is a toddler who doesn't even know what sightseeing is.
00:39:08
Um, so they're like, huh, interesting. And they then, uh, notice that she in telling this story is completely emotionless.
00:39:21
The cop, um, who I watched on an old 2020 said, not one tear did I see as she was telling the story.
00:39:30
so she's explaining how her children are shot point blank range by but she could be in shock
00:39:35
because they say now like don't judge someone's reaction because you just never know how they're
00:39:39
gonna absolutely however the night of true but that it is going to uh raise the alarm bells in
00:39:46
a cop where if you're either not crying or fake crime right uh then when they brought her in to
00:39:53
see Christy when she had woken up from, uh, her, like when she was, you know, conscious again,
00:40:00
when they got her going, there were, um, there's a detective and then two doctors in the room
00:40:07
with her when they brought Diane in her. They said her eyes glazed over with fear and her heart
00:40:13
rates that was on the heart monitor went from 104 to 164. Holy shit. So everybody was like,
00:40:21
uh-oh. Because this is a little girl surrounded by strangers and her mother, the one person who's
00:40:27
supposed to give her comfort in the world comes in, she's terrified. So that's alarm bell number
00:40:33
three. Then they find out that almost immediately after arriving at the hospital and her children
00:40:42
being wheeled in to the ER, Diane made a call to a guy named Robert Knickerbocker, who was a married
00:40:50
man and a former colleague of hers that she'd had an affair with in Arizona made a phone call there.
00:40:57
And they also noticed that even though none of the children had been given any first aid of any
00:41:03
kind, Diane had a dish towel wrapped neatly around her gunshot wound. Good to know. So these are
00:41:09
things everybody's dinging off one by one and going, ah, this is all of this seems weird.
00:41:14
Is it shitty for me to say that in, I'm surprised that in 1983, these things dinged?
00:41:19
Because I feel like a lot of shit got past people. Oh, I think, yes. I think because it was still the early days of this kind of crime being like...
00:41:30
Right, forensics and stuff. Because there was no, you know, forensic files. And you didn't see this all the time and hear that same story of like, but then the cops...
00:41:37
So it was like smart cops and smart doctors paying attention. Yeah. And I think it's when three little kids get killed or, uh, you know, one gets murdered and two are horribly, uh, injured.
00:41:53
Everybody on high alert and paying as close attention It there less of a lackadaisical feel as opposed to our usual oh they ran away Yeah Bullshit Yeah But yes definitely these cops on this case
00:42:06
were on it. And this one cop that talked the most in this 2020 special, which you can see if you go on YouTube or whatever,
00:42:13
it was his first homicide case ever. So I think that's probably another thing. He was like poised.
00:42:19
Yeah. He wasn't jaded. He wasn't like, oh, this old thing. And, you know, he was like there trying to figure it out.
00:42:25
Thinking about all the paperwork that needed to be done. He was like, yeah, let's pay attention.
00:42:28
He's like, what the hell happened? And they say that the phrasing here is shaggy haired man, but that's not the, that's not
00:42:37
exactly the wording she used. That's actually a police term for that fake person that people who kill people and then
00:42:44
blame it on a random person who came in. They call that the shaggy haired man. Wow.
00:42:49
But she actually said, and she described it, and you can see like the police sketch.
00:42:53
It is a shaggy haired man. It's like some man who locked her down. Some like drifter kind of character.
00:43:00
A drifter type. That no mother in the world would ever pull her car over for. Fuck no.
00:43:06
On an empty country road, much less turn the car off. That's the craziest part to me.
00:43:12
Why did she add that in? Because it wasn't necessary. No, because she's a bad liar and she's one of these psychopaths who thinks that she's the mastermind.
00:43:20
Smarter, yes. And- That's really the funniest to me because they're the most obvious liars.
00:43:26
Yes. Well, because they don't know how dumb they really are. I really love watching interrogations when you know someone is guilty.
00:43:34
Like when you're not guessing, you actually know they're guilty. Yeah. And the lying they do.
00:43:41
And how loud lying sounds. Yeah. It's just so blatantly obvious. Yeah. And I love when the cops play along.
00:43:48
Yes. And they like sympathize. So with her, this is what I love. These cops decided to let her talk.
00:43:56
She started talking to the press almost immediately. Fuck. And because of course they were like,
00:44:01
we've got to find the shaggy haired man. So she was giving these interviews and the more she did it, the more she loved it.
00:44:07
And they called her, she looked a little bit like Lady Diana. So they would call her Lady Di.
00:44:12
and she kept on giving interviews. Well, four days after her daughter, Cheryl, is pronounced dead,
00:44:18
she's doing a reenactment for the news and you can watch this. All this stuff is on YouTube.
00:44:25
She is laughing and joking along with this reporter, reenacting the murder of her children,
00:44:30
but literally like, oh my God, I just hit my cast. Like she looks like a flirty high school girl.
00:44:36
Can you explain my face right now? Georgia's, all of her orifices are open as wide as possible.
00:44:42
I'm a gas. Jesus, Karen. This is an X-rated podcast. How dare you? But no, no, it's great.
00:44:49
It's so unnerving. And then you, and also you see these, the interviews, she talks more and more as each one goes by.
00:44:56
So the one that they end up having to hold because the reporter knew if they released it
00:45:03
before her trial, that there's no way she would get a fair trial in Oregon. In this one, she's quoted as saying,
00:45:10
and this, it kind of made me sick. Like I had to turn it off and turn it back on a couple of times because this woman is overtly crazy.
00:45:17
She has the hallmark of crazy, in my opinion, which is anyone who's plucked their eyebrows down to just like two little lines.
00:45:25
Always to me, that's like either you're on speed, you're on some kind of white drug or you're just totally crazy.
00:45:31
I love it. Because she's it looks like two upside down yous over each of her eyes.
00:45:35
And it's like it's like one eyebrow connected to the next eyebrow connects like one hair.
00:45:40
Yes, exactly. Like she just left on the bare minimum of eyebrow. That's always a very bad sign.
00:45:47
So she's getting interviewed and the reporter asks her, do you feel lucky that you only got shot in the arm in this terrible crime?
00:45:58
And she says, my children are the ones who are lucky. I'm the one that has to live with this pain and scarring for the rest of my life.
00:46:06
What a fucking cunt. And in the same interview, they catch her. you see her as she talks. She can't help. She smiles at the end of every sentence.
00:46:16
She giggles a little bit. What an idiot. And at the, at, during one point, it's almost like,
00:46:21
it's almost like her brain doesn't know what the correct face is supposed to be for this situation.
00:46:26
Because she's an, a not like, what was the, yeah, she's a narcissist. Yes. Oh, that's the thing. I
00:46:31
was watching, I read a thing recently about sociopaths and you can tell them because when
00:46:35
you yawn, you know, normally when I yawn, you'll yawn too. Yes. When I yawn, they don't yawn because
00:46:42
they have no empathy because they, they don't catch the yawn because they don't, they don't
00:46:48
feel what you feel. Yeah. They don't have any of that. She's like, didn't, she doesn't understand
00:46:53
that facial expressions read. Yes. And she doesn't know to mask. She is enjoying being the center of
00:47:01
attention. And she doesn't know to mask that joy while she's talking about the blood coming out of
00:47:07
her daughter's mouth. It's one of the creepiest. I want to call it Munchausen by proxy, but it's
00:47:12
not because she, I mean, like shooting someone is so aggressive and. Yeah, no, Munchausen's is more,
00:47:22
you're getting the, the, the sympathy from people. This is a person who thought she was
00:47:27
going to get away with a triple murder of children. So what happened? So basically she
00:47:36
keeps doing these interviews and now everyone around is seeing that this woman is not the victim
00:47:42
of a random crime on a country road. Like she initially said, everyone in like nearby is like,
00:47:50
oh my God, there's something wrong with her. And so then as, as all that's happening and she's,
00:47:54
She's doing it. Like she was volunteering for these interviews. The police are still investigating.
00:48:00
her secret diary. And that's where they find all the information about that guy, Robert Knickerbocker,
00:48:05
and her obsession with him and how she basically wanted to kill his wife when she still lived in
00:48:11
Arizona. And that this guy had no interest in children, thought it was inappropriate to be
00:48:16
around her when she was with her children. And so clearly the motive was on the page.
00:48:21
She killed her children so she could be with him. Right. Listen, don't have a secret diary
00:48:25
unless you're going to kill someone. Like it's the only people who have secret diaries
00:48:29
are going to fucking kill someone. Yes. That's just evidence waiting to be found.
00:48:34
Just think about it. Think of your thoughts. Don't write them down. So then a guy comes forward that says,
00:48:41
because her story was she raced to the ER after this happened. A guy comes forward and says,
00:48:46
I drove behind, she had a red Nissan. I drove behind a red Nissan that was going so slowly
00:48:52
that my speedometer needle wasn't coming off the peg. He said she was probably going seven miles an hour.
00:48:58
And he had to pass her, came up behind her, going so slow, had to pass her. And her story was she was racing there.
00:49:05
She actually drove so slowly to ensure her children would bleed out because she could hear the moaning.
00:49:11
I'm going to throw up. It's fucked. So she was arrested February 28th, 1984, like nine months later.
00:49:18
and then during her trial, her daughter Christy, the one who got scared when she came in the room,
00:49:24
had recovered enough and Christy testified against her own mother and told everybody,
00:49:30
there was no man in the street. My mom shot all of us through crying, you know, tears and everything,
00:49:35
testified against her own fucking mother. But here's the sweet part. Is there a sweet part, please?
00:49:41
Well, there is a couple. First of all, she was convicted. She got sentenced to life
00:49:45
in prison plus 50 years. So she's never getting out. Good. But she did get pregnant before the trial. So she was pregnant during the trial.
00:49:55
By whom? A guy that she seduced on her mail route. So she knew she was going to get arrested.
00:50:02
So she slept with this guy and got pregnant and then so that she could garner sympathy and look
00:50:08
like, I would never do this. Look, I'm such a loving mother. I think you also get put in a
00:50:12
better prison if you're pregnant. Yeah. You get treated way better. Right. So here's the
00:50:18
This is the quote that she had about being pregnant. I got pregnant because I miss Christy and I miss Danny and I miss Cheryl so much.
00:50:27
You can't replace children, but you can replace the effect that they give you. And they give me love.
00:50:33
They give me satisfaction. They give me stability. They give me a reason to live and a reason to be happy.
00:50:39
You fucking cut. You fucking shot your children. And now she's going to make more.
00:50:43
So that child was immediately taken away from her and put up for adoption. and that girl never knew who her mother was until like recently.
00:50:50
Wait, that's me. Wait a minute. What if it's me? And then here's the beautiful part.
00:50:57
The prosecuting attorney that sent her away adopted both Christy and Danny. His name is Danny, right?
00:51:05
Yes. Adopted them both. Him and his wife. They're legally now their parents. I don't cry.
00:51:11
I have no feelings in my heart. And I love that to fucking cry. Isn't that beautiful?
00:51:14
So happy. Yeah. because they need so much. Yes. They need so much. And that prosecutor from,
00:51:24
he was the first one who was like, you need to get a therapist with Christy and have a therapist with her all the time
00:51:31
because at some point she's going to need to start talking about this and someone needs to be there and be ready for her.
00:51:36
Yeah, dude. And so she just had like constant support and she like, they did it.
00:51:42
They did right by these kids one time in one of these horrible stories these kids I mean got done right by even if they hadn't been
00:51:49
shot they they got a better life than they would have had oh yeah yeah apparently she was a horrible
00:51:55
they they um a psychiatrist um said she was a narcissist a sociopath and a hysteric wow so she
00:52:08
must have been a nightmare mother like they the kids said she hit them all the time she's someone
00:52:12
who in the 1800s would have been like a good mother. You know what I mean? Like a Brooklyn in the fucking 1800s.
00:52:19
Would have been like, well, she keeps her kids in line, you know, and like would have never,
00:52:23
would have never gone to trial. That's right. She would have had like a funny name,
00:52:29
like a, you know, bully Betty. Yeah, exactly. And then would have never. Oh, Mrs. Slappy.
00:52:35
So that's the first one that like affected you? That was the first, I read that story.
00:52:40
I can still remember the feeling of reading it And the whole description of her turning around in the car and shooting the children and just being like, it was basically, I had an equal opposite thing of like, I realized this was a possibility.
00:52:54
Right. But I didn't ever have to consider. Although my mom did own the book. So clearly she was interested in the situation.
00:53:01
She's like learning about it. She might have been doing research. Yeah. But it was just that thing of like that adults, just not to trust adults.
00:53:10
These are very hard lessons that we both learned. And I wonder if they taught us what we started a podcast about, which is anything can fucking happen anytime and you need to be on guard for it at all times.
00:53:28
And don't take things for granted or like judge books by covers and don't do the things that average people get tricked by.
00:53:38
Yeah. Because this woman, it was like, she looked like Lady Di and she was like, I would never hurt my children.
00:53:44
And everyone's like, okay. And if she herself had stopped doing interviews at that point, it may, I mean, who knows?
00:53:52
They would have had to prove everything else by evidence I think it funny that like my story is a dad story and yours is a mom story And what it is is that anyone is capable of anything Yeah Anyone could be lying to you at all times
00:54:09
Also, it's we picked the worst dad and the worst mom was kind of of all time. Yeah.
00:54:14
But these are the things we remember as children. This is what you and I remember as children.
00:54:18
Yeah. Yeah. Dude. Kindred fucking spirit. Okay, we're back. Any updates, Karen? So now Diane Downs is in her late 60s.
00:54:38
She's still incarcerated at Chowchilla, which is here in California. She's been denied parole multiple times, most recently in 2020.
00:54:46
Okay, to wrap this up, let's listen to the outro of Our Bodies Are Twelfth. you know what's funny is so i i wrote before we um before you came over i wrote like on the
00:54:59
facebook page like you know i always write like we're about to record here's the topic comment
00:55:05
with your story yeah which i think is like so smart yes um it is really smart of you georgia
00:55:12
i am thus the smartest um but some people wrote things and i was like quickly looking over them
00:55:20
and one of them is yours. Is Diane Downs? Diane Downs is fucking in there. Yay. Should I read a couple?
00:55:26
Yes, please. People's? Yes. And thank you for the people who are now running the Facebook page.
00:55:35
Aren't there? Didn't you say there's two people who are, what do you call it? Yeah, we have a couple.
00:55:41
Moderators? Moderators, that's the word. I'm burping. Can you hear me burping? Or is that like.
00:55:45
I didn't hear it. I saw you whip your head back. You think what's in your head and then you realize it's just going straight into a microphone, which sometimes you just don't
00:55:53
even know. And like, that's life. Um, okay. I'm going to read you a couple. Okay. You just made
00:55:59
me want to die, but we're going to say, I'm going to keep going. So someone wrote, do you smell
00:56:03
chicken soup right now? I'm like a fucking, do you think it was your burp? No, no, I'm like a
00:56:11
bloodhound. I can fucking smell shit. Really? Okay. Someone says Zodiac. My mother had a book
00:56:16
about him and I snuck up, I snuck it at age 10 to read it. So that's, I think that's what happens.
00:56:22
Yes, I do too. Oh, I just got a whiff of the chicken soup. Yes, I do. How good is that? It smells really good.
00:56:28
I remember my mom took away my brother's copy of The Outsiders, which made me want to read it
00:56:33
even more. Oh, I loved The Outsiders. Betty Broderick, hometown murder, all over the news
00:56:40
when I was 10 or 11. My dad's boss's daughter was murdered when I was around 15.
00:56:46
Oh no. That started it all. Yeah. Diane Downs. Yes. She shot her three kids and still to this day will and try
00:56:54
to say a man on the road shot them. And there were six replies saying, yes, this is the one.
00:57:00
Yes. I read this book and I haven't seen the movie, but I think about it all the time.
00:57:04
Oh, that's right. Farrah Fawcett stars in the Lifetime movie. Shut up. Yeah. Yeah.
00:57:08
And Ryan O'Neill. Brilliant. not actually a movie, but the a murder, but the spontaneous
00:57:16
human combustion episode of Unsolved Murders. And then she said, actually, actual murder,
00:57:22
probably Ed Gein. That's a classic. I remember that episode of Unsolved Mysteries because
00:57:30
the picture they show is just this lady's legs. That's the only thing left. Sticking out of the chair that she
00:57:36
combusts. It's amazing. If you actually look in the spontaneous human combustion
00:57:40
It's actually really interesting that like there might just be a friction in of things in your pocket.
00:57:45
Yeah. That lit on fire. And but you're so gassy and fatty that you're basically a human candle.
00:57:52
Yeah. Oh, no. I think you mean me specifically. I can shake the walls of my farts.
00:57:58
Anywho. Someone wrote Red Helter Skelter in seventh grade, 1982. Girl. Unsolved mystery in general was my gateway drug.
00:58:07
and someone said, let's see, yes, that number, the son of Sam got obsessed after the crazy John Leguizamo movie about it,
00:58:17
which just shows how young people are. Summer of Sam. Yeah, I was on speed when that movie came out
00:58:26
and I couldn't watch John Leguizamo. Me too, he was real annoying. Someone said watching Silent Witness with my mom.
00:58:32
Which one was that? Was that the Silent Witness? Someone said, you know, the Kara Homolko and Paul Bernardo that we've talked about before.
00:58:45
Let's see here. The West Memphis Three. Yeah. When I was in fourth grade, my friend's dad, perhaps foolishly, led us front of VHS of Paradise Lost.
00:58:55
No. The night of the slumber party. Oh, no. Oh, no. Fourth grade is just too young.
00:59:00
Honey, no. Oh, my Lord. Mimi. That is like, I'm going to step on the stop button.
00:59:07
let's see here the clutter family the from the in cold blood yeah that's heavy of course son of
00:59:14
sam my mom was a pretty girl in the 70s and in new york um and she's this person says new york
00:59:21
in the 70s was an awful sounding and scary place while also being fascinating yeah like i would go
00:59:27
back in time and go there yeah but you'd need like an armored car yeah or to be like a punk rocker
00:59:35
Yeah. Someone says, I just remember stumbling across Dateline one night when I was in high school.
00:59:42
Fuck yeah, dude. Lizzie Borden, Manson, Zodiac, another Lizzie Borden, Jonestown,
00:59:50
Best Memphis Three, Helter Skelter. Helter Skelter? That how you say it in Yiddish All classics All good kickoffs I not a lot of Ted Bundy I thought there be many more I guess he a bit old maybe for this group
01:00:06
There are some more Anne Rules. Like, she just, like, rules. She Anne ruled. She was the greatest.
01:00:13
And those books, she just wrote books that were so easy to read. They were easy.
01:00:17
Like Stephen King books that were like, this is intense and complicated, but I don't feel stupid.
01:00:22
And also she would, she's made single like one-off murders interesting, which I never was interested in. But like, you know, we're getting behind the mentality of a person who like killed their wife or whatever.
01:00:34
I need to go back and reread a couple of those because like in my mind now I'm too sophisticated and I don't care and I don't want to know about Ted Bundy anymore. And like, I know everything. But like, if she's such a great writer, then I should just be able to go through it.
01:00:48
Yes. Well, and also her Ted Bundy that's a stranger beside me is great because it's her first person account of working with Ted Bundy. How stoked is she that that happened to her though? Like she's a little stoked.
01:00:59
For real. And she's also, she is in, if you look up Dying Downs, she's interviewed in that 2020.
01:01:05
No way. She's still alive back then. She's since passed. She's the best interviewer. She's like someone's sassy mom.
01:01:11
Can we do a book club and like read one of them together? Like when we haven't read before.
01:01:15
Okay. I'm actually really interested in the Lacey Peterson case. Oh, you're not.
01:01:21
No, I am. That was in your area. It was in Modesto, which is very, it's in the East Valley, basically Central Valley, East Bay.
01:01:31
Like there's no way he didn't do it, right? Oh, he 100% did it. I know. It's so, it's so gross.
01:01:37
This is the New Simpsons. It is. Oh, and how many people, I loved how many people wrote to us because they're going to do a true version, not like OJ, but a real version of JonBenet.
01:01:52
And we had maybe 10 different people going, you guys, have you seen this? This is our Super Bowl, Karen.
01:01:58
Yes, it really is. I know we've said this before, but we need to watch this together.
01:02:02
We need to have special episodes that you can, we'll all watch it together. We'll all watch it together.
01:02:08
That's actually a great idea. Because, you know, our friend Joe DeRosa and Pat Walsh, they have a horror movie podcast where they watch the movie and talk during it.
01:02:18
And it's so hilarious because you can watch the movie yourself, but then you can watch it with people.
01:02:25
It's as if you have two friends that are dominating the conversation. We Watch Wrestling does that too, but they'll watch WrestleMania 4 and just fucking talk about it.
01:02:34
And there's like silent moments in it and it's fine because we're all watching it together.
01:02:38
Yeah. I mean, but you and I won't shut up. I won't be able to. Yeah. I'll be talking a lot.
01:02:43
Should I edit that out? What? That we're going to get high? Well, we could do whatever we want.
01:02:48
The only way I yell at television is when I'm high. And it's pretty fucking funny.
01:02:52
I remember because I watched the Oscars with you. One of the greatest. Oh, it's funny.
01:02:58
Screaming. Wait, we do have a... I have a corrections corner moment. Oh, right. Because a couple people wrote this and I was so embarrassed,
01:03:07
but it also made me laugh. a like cry laugh. I can't wait. I do not think that Manitoba is a city in Canada. I know I said
01:03:15
it the way I said it made it sound like that. Although I can't claim to know, uh, inherently
01:03:21
know the geography of Canada. I do. No one said that, did they? It was the way I said it. Cause
01:03:27
I said the bus went from Brandon to Manitoba. Oh, and someone was like, it's not half an hour.
01:03:32
That's like saying it's from, goes from Las Vegas to California. There's essentially.
01:03:36
calm down well but uh just so people know but i mean at the same time if it's written in wikipedia
01:03:43
i'm reading it to you and i'm not going to double check anything listen this is not we're clearly
01:03:49
the most researched podcast manitova is a province and i know that okay right now i am looking up the
01:03:56
word whore in our uh my favorite murder gmail cool because i needed to find the email that said
01:04:04
notes and resources about sex workers in episode 10. Oh. So someone named Sam wanted us to know that,
01:04:12
I know that neither of you are involved in sex work. Thanks, Sam. You don't know that.
01:04:17
So I figured I would just let you in on a few things. First off, a lot of sex workers and people in the quote adult industries
01:04:24
take a lot of justified offense at the word prostitute, which is another way of saying whore, which obviously doesn't fly.
01:04:30
some prefer to be called escorts but over over calling people involved with sex works sex workers
01:04:36
is really the right option which i i did feel there were some people pointing out that like
01:04:41
we were like uh kind of rude i was kind of rude about sex work and i i want to clear it up so this
01:04:49
person said the way the quote work is highlighted that it's a job that should be considered as a
01:04:55
as normal as being a paralegal or construction worker. Furthermore, most cops really don't give
01:05:00
a fuck about sex workers in any capacity. This extends to people in porn as well.
01:05:06
That is why safety and clarity and communication and a level of protection are inseparable in sex
01:05:12
work and why hearing about a male porn actor raping and harassing female co-stars is just as,
01:05:17
if not more jarring than hearing about another piece of trash serial killer. That said, there
01:05:22
are really good resources out there for people in sex work that offer help and advice for awful
01:05:27
situations that may arise. I highly recommend swopusa.org and sexworkersproject.org for anyone
01:05:35
in sex work. I just wanted to clear that up. I said something about how no one chooses to be
01:05:44
a prostitute. Yeah. And I understand that it is so much bigger than that. And I feel bad for
01:05:52
saying that Well and I like the fact that we have listeners that then send us information like constructive information because that very true Yeah And we are and we said it a million times but to people having conversations about something that we interested in
01:06:06
we definitely make mistakes constantly. And so anytime you hear any of that, especially if it's something
01:06:13
that you take offense to or that you think we need education on, we are happy and open to hear about it.
01:06:21
Especially because nothing terrible has happened to us either, either of us. Like it's not like we're saying this from experience.
01:06:27
Exactly. We haven't had our fucking sister or a cousin or whoever get murdered. So we're a little more flippant about it than we would be if these things had happened to us.
01:06:36
Right. Exactly. And we don't, we just have the interest of the, of, we have just the interest from distance.
01:06:44
And that's the reason that we can take the take that we have. But we also in no way want to offend people.
01:06:50
Or, and we certainly aren't judging anybody at all. And we absolutely would never judge a victim of any crime.
01:06:58
And this guy made a good point, which is like, you guys, we have a platform that we can announce these things.
01:07:04
And so we're lucky and we should do it. And I totally agree. And I don't want to seem flippant about sex work being like a lark, you know, or like not a big deal or not a choice, which it is choice.
01:07:17
And it doesn't mean that you're a bad person or... No, not at all. And if you get yourself into a situation
01:07:23
It's great that That's a beautiful way to end that email Which is here's some constructive
01:07:29
Like a direction someone can go If they want to go in that direction So they do have options
01:07:35
I agree I feel like this was a more serious episode Of My Favorite Murder It's kind of personal
01:07:42
Well because it was kind of about us It was about us I mean these are the things that fucked us up
01:07:50
these are the reasons this podcast exists i have to say it it definitely fucked me up but it also
01:07:57
i got i was also thrilled to understand i feel like i was i was raised very um kept away from like the realities of life both of my parents were like blue collar workers my dad's
01:08:16
a fireman, my mom's a nurse. So they saw a lot of the bad stuff of life and they wanted to keep
01:08:20
my sister and I so far away from it. And I, it drove me crazy because I think I always had the
01:08:25
sense of like, there's more going on than they're telling me. So every time I would find an Ann
01:08:30
Rule book or I would read an article or whatever, I felt like I was getting one more piece of like,
01:08:34
what's really going on. And I think that that's, that's another way to look at it and maybe a good
01:08:41
way to look at it too. It's just like, as we said a million times, it's almost like the more
01:08:45
information you have and the more you know, the better off you are. Yeah. Like the adult, we are,
01:08:50
as I think children especially understand that the adult world is, is something we don't,
01:08:56
we don't totally get. And we're always like, as children are trying to understand it.
01:09:00
And so we know someone's hiding something from us and we know like when something happens,
01:09:05
our parents react to it and we can sense it. Yeah. We want to know, like you and I are curious
01:09:11
fucking people. Some people aren't. Yeah. I think the people who are into, into murder and into
01:09:17
true crime are curious fucking people who want to, who want to know the dark side,
01:09:22
even if they know that it's going to ruin them a little bit. Yeah. Because, but it's almost like
01:09:27
the option. It's like better that than not knowing. And some people are like, I just don't
01:09:31
want to know, which completely makes sense. But I'm just, I've never been that person.
01:09:35
I've always talked to my therapist, like how great it would be just to be like a fucking,
01:09:38
I want to just live my life in suburbia and be unaware of all the awful things that could happen.
01:09:46
And I wish, I really truly wish I wanted to be that way. But you don't. But I'm so fucking happy I'm not.
01:09:54
Me too. Because then we get to do this. Yeah, we're dark and it's okay. Hi. Hey, Karen.
01:10:02
Hey. Well, this has been episode 12 of My Favorite Murder. Thanks for listening.
01:10:06
don't forget to rate, review and subscribe please do that you guys that helps us a lot
01:10:13
and we're doing so crazy great our numbers are huge and it's because of you guys
01:10:18
so thank you so much for listening totally go to feralaudio.com and buy your Amazon shit from there
01:10:24
and listen to other podcasts and tell them how much you love us and of course don't forget to stay sexy
01:10:30
stay sexy and don't get murdered bye bye I think in this episode, if I'm not mistaken, we start talking about starting an Anne Rule book club.
01:10:44
Definitely. Gave that up immediately. I mean, I think we should do it. I think that sounds super fun.
01:10:51
And also, you know, the Anne Rule people just sent us a big box of her books. They did. I took one that I hadn't read.
01:10:58
So did I. Oh, my God. Maybe we'll just do any Anne Rule book that you haven't read. We should all read.
01:11:03
Yeah. Okay. But we have to figure more structure out for it. So it's actually a club.
01:11:07
Like, when do you drink the wine? When do you stop talking about the book and start gossiping about the people that you work with?
01:11:12
What's the level of cheese we're talking about here? I think it's High Bree. High.
01:11:16
High Bree? High Bree always. It's like, what will we do? Like, on the main episode, there's a part where we just stop the main episode.
01:11:24
And then it's like, sounds like a cocktail party in the background. And we're like, it's book club time.
01:11:28
Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. So what did everyone think? And then we just have a blank, like, 17 minutes.
01:11:34
So that's where you can say your response. It's interactive. It's the first interactive podcast.
01:11:39
Holy shit. I love it. And we'll just go, mm-hmm, a couple times throughout. Wow.
01:11:44
Interesting take. I'll go, no. Go fuck yourself. Is there any more white wine? I need to leave this room spiritually.
01:11:54
We also, I guess, first figured out about each other that we were both latchkey kids.
01:11:59
Oh, yeah. Yeah. It was interesting that like, maybe that's why we like knew each other when we met each other, like bonded.
01:12:05
It was like, of course we were. We're so trauma bonded. It's insane. It's insane.
01:12:09
We had all the things, okay? Yeah. Just on either side of the state. Yeah, exactly.
01:12:14
So just to remind everyone, and I bet you those day one listeners heard this in this rewind,
01:12:20
but Georgia for the first time says, here's the thing, fuck everyone in this episode.
01:12:25
and so of course that's become that's become one of our what is it called? A slogan?
01:12:31
What is it? Yeah, slogan. A saying? A saying. Most popular on merch too. People fucking love it. It's the best.
01:12:37
You guys love wearing shirts with the F word on it, you crazy kids. It's fun, you punk rockers.
01:12:42
So we're gonna re-release our old school Here's the Thing Fuck Everyone design that
01:12:47
everyone loves. Go to MyFavoriteMurder.com to check it out. So we'll have like a shirt. I think there's
01:12:53
other stuff. Yeah, check it out. Yeah. On myfavoritemurder.com. Because there's already been, it's not a true re-release, but it's like kind of, here's what we did the first time.
01:13:01
Yeah. And it's fucking cute. Yeah. Oh, so, I mean, it's hard to beat our original title.
01:13:07
Yeah. It really a good title but it just the fun of what could it have been doing the way we do it which is it something we say within the episode What was the bullshit spoken Well here the thing of course could have been one Yeah
01:13:21
Oh, I said to Georgia, were you a latchkey child as well? And then I lost my mind.
01:13:28
Sides and sides, what we'd order at Musso and Frank when we hit, you know, something.
01:13:33
I think I said she and ruled, which is very catchy. She did. And this is our Super Bowl.
01:13:41
Yeah. The JonBenét Ramsey documentary coming out is our Super Bowl. I stand by that. I still agree.
01:13:47
I think also that saying, that kind of joke that you made was like the lightning point of people being like, that's right.
01:13:55
That's it. Like, we do this and we have this and we should be able to join together.
01:14:02
Right. And I'm supposed to understand the Super Bowl, but I don't and I don't care.
01:14:07
And I think that you guys all going crazy about your actual Super Bowl is a little silly.
01:14:12
Right. And I'm not interested in anything but the snacks and the beer. And so that's ours.
01:14:16
Yeah. You can't make fun of us either. Right. And you actually might even have to come and be a drag along and start getting interested in what your lady likes.
01:14:25
That's right. Or your beloved significant other whoever it is your man You have to watch the documentary We will bring snacks We will provide snacks And we can all wear jerseys Our My Favorite Murder t are our jerseys
01:14:39
That's right. That's right. We've done it all for you. We've actually structured how you can be a fan.
01:14:44
And we're working on the details of how to be the best kind of fan. That's all we've ever done is you know how detail-oriented we are.
01:14:51
Oh, my God. Just organized. We have Excel spreadsheets. You have to see it. Thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind.
01:14:58
This is so fun. We're just going to keep doing this if you guys are into it and you seem to be, and we appreciate that so much.
01:15:03
It gets easier every week because the show gets better every week. And so we don't have as much to cringe about and be worried about.
01:15:10
But thanks for always being there and stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
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