00:00:00
This is exactly right. on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:34
Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. If you live in L.A., you already spend about 89% of your life in a car.
00:00:40
So we turned it into a podcast. On Do You Need a Ride, we pick up our comedian friends,
00:00:45
drive around Los Angeles, and discuss what's happening in the world around us. Cars are very rude to bicyclists,
00:00:51
but in this case, it's a bicyclist going out of his way to get in the way of traffic.
00:00:55
All you did was roll your window down. Oh, he almost hit that. It's like a talk show, but going 30 miles an hour.
00:01:01
New episodes every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:09
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:01:14
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:01:21
It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff.
00:01:28
It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day.
00:01:33
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:01:54
Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our new special Wednesday podcast where we rewind to our oldest episodes and provide some eight years later commentary for you.
00:02:07
So necessary. Today, we're rewinding back to episode 17 called episode 17. But here's the thing.
00:02:15
The seven is spelled like the movie seven. So it's clever. It's really clever. It's clever and it's absolutely a breach of trademark.
00:02:23
For sure. So true. And this episode we posted on Thursday, May 19th of the year 2016.
00:02:30
Remember? Okay, so now it's time for you to grab your closest frenemy, the one guy from the deli, and someone dealing with perimenopause so we can all listen along together because now we get to all be day one listeners.
00:02:42
I've been all those things to someone at some point in my life. I mean, haven't we?
00:02:46
I would hope we all have. You have to fully live. You do. All right. So let's listen to the intro of episode 17.
00:02:54
what was that about that breath i don't know i guess i was just trying to clear a channel
00:03:04
for this episode get ready for the for what was to come the right of your life get ready get ready for a roller coaster of emotion are you ready i'm ready let's do
00:03:19
episode 17 of My Favorite Murder, starring George R. Stark and Karen Kilgara. Hi, everybody.
00:03:28
Hi, here we are. Hi. Hi. Welcome, if you just started. Hi, what's going on in your life?
00:03:37
How are you guys? Why do you like murder so much? What's up with you? Did you see something weird as an eight-year-old?
00:03:43
Or have you always had a weird feeling inside? Can you talk to anyone else in your life about it?
00:03:48
Is this why you're here? Is that nobody else is interested and you're a freak? Yeah, because that's why we're here.
00:03:54
Hey. So, good. Good. So here we are. Good on you. That was the intro. Yeah. These are getting better, I think.
00:04:03
I feel like. I think they're getting very strong. I think we're professionals now.
00:04:07
People are like, I just started, I hit play on this podcast, but now I don't know what's happening.
00:04:12
Yeah. I'm not sure if it actually started. People are just talking at each other.
00:04:15
are you i feel a little pressure do you yeah oh yeah because guys our ratings went through the
00:04:24
roof our ratings just blew i mean let's just say it let's just say it we think that there is a
00:04:30
computer hacker that's gone on to itunes and hacked us into number one and clearly they love
00:04:37
us for some reason this hacker if andrew solmston if this is you thank you my friend you're a good
00:04:43
person. It's insane. We're number one on the iTunes comedy podcast list. Yeah. Like our,
00:04:50
not our picture, but our logo. It's so exciting. Yeah. It's very, it's super cool. And we do want
00:04:59
to thank Jack O'Brien, who is the host of the Cracks podcast. That can't be a coincidence that
00:05:05
that thing got posted and then suddenly all kinds of people were like, Hey, I just discovered your
00:05:11
podcast yeah so thanks jack you're the best yeah uh and easy on the eyes pretty cute but he's
00:05:18
married dimples calm down everybody's married yeah everyone chill uh but that yeah it was super fun
00:05:25
to be on the podcast it was so much fun he was great yeah this is all like this is all i'm saying
00:05:30
i feel like it's weird that we had an idea at a party you had the gumption to actually make me do
00:05:37
it and then something like that would happen. I do that. I make people do stuff a lot.
00:05:42
It's good. It's good. Otherwise, I'll just fall into a deep, dark depression. Same here.
00:05:47
I'll go into my TV room, close the curtains like Morticia Adams and then watch British
00:05:53
procedurals until I die of old age This is why my blinds that you see right here my drapes are sheer because otherwise it just depressionville Oh that true You know what I mean Because when you can be in the complete dark you can be in the complete dark
00:06:09
Are you telling me we need to go to Ikea and get some new curtains for my TV room?
00:06:13
We are absoffecatively saying that. I'm going to burn those curtains. I have straight up hotel blackout curtains in my TV room.
00:06:20
I have that in my bedroom, but not, but in here it's like, I, I'll get depressed.
00:06:25
Yeah. Although I think you cured my depression. I know. It's very helpful. Although at the same time, I don't, I have this thing where dusk makes me really fucking
00:06:33
depressed. Dust? Dusk. Oh yes. Yeah. It just reminds me of being a kid, which sucks as everyone knows.
00:06:40
Being home alone and being like, do I make my own dinner? I'm only nine. I don't, I'm not going to eat anything because it's too depressing to eat alone.
00:06:47
Oh, I had the opposite reaction. That's funny. I was like, I can make toast. I'll make a whole loaf of toast.
00:06:56
Cheese toast, man. Comforts you. Comforts you. It's like, yeah, kid recipes, like crackers with butter on them.
00:07:03
Yeah. How gross is that? What about, did you ever melt butter, mix in brown sugar and vanilla and just eat that out of a cup?
00:07:13
Never done that. Let me just tell you. That's called a poor man's chocolate chip cookie.
00:07:19
It's fucking delicious. You're basically taking everything good in chocolate chip cookies and none of the bullshit.
00:07:25
No. Fuck baking soda. Totally. Raw eggs. Who needs to go away, chickens? I'm just going to eat the good stuff.
00:07:32
I love that. Wait, did you include incorporate any chocolate chips in there? No, I don't think we ever had.
00:07:37
We had very little food when I was a kid in my house at all times. So it was like, what do I have on hand?
00:07:44
I'm going to wrap a slice of turkey around a pickle spear. And that's dinner. totally. I do have a very early memory of drinking cough syrup one time just and jumping on the bed.
00:07:56
That's what I was doing that afternoon by myself. It's full that you knew that cough syrup drinking
00:08:01
would be fun. Like I don't think if I had known that I would have been. I mean, if there's ever
00:08:05
a sign that a child is going to be an alcoholic for sure, that was it. That was like the Tom Hanks
00:08:11
episode of family. Was it not family matters? Family ties. Yeah. Family ties. All right.
00:08:18
When he drinks maraschino cherry liquid and shit. I'm just like, what's happening? I once
00:08:23
cut open a tea leaf, a tea bag, poured the tea leafs, wow, into a little bit of paper towel,
00:08:30
rolled it up like a joint because I wanted to see what it's like to smoke cigarettes. I think it was
00:08:34
like 10. And I smoked that in front of a mirror to see how cool I looked. Did you look so cool?
00:08:40
I know. Did you barf from that? It's basically lit on fire. Yeah. You know? Yeah. I would imagine
00:08:47
that would go up pretty easily. The point is don't let your kids be latchkey kids.
00:08:52
Well, one time my mom was home, she was just on the phone. And when she got on the horn,
00:08:56
she would be on it for like an hour and a half. And I just lit the bed on fire in the back.
00:09:00
I was playing with matches and I was just like, it was like strike a match, watch the flame go up,
00:09:07
hold it until it got down to my fingers. Done it a million times. Drop it on the bed.
00:09:12
Because I was like five. So I was just like, oh, I'm done with that. Drop it on the bed.
00:09:15
And this is the 80s. So they're the most flammable. Everything is so... Polyester.
00:09:19
They like spray extra flammable shit on everything. This is when they're trying to light children on fire
00:09:24
any way possible. Yeah. I'm pretty sure what the top layer was an electric blanket,
00:09:30
which is also the most flammable thing of all time. And so basically I started a fire
00:09:35
and it got into a like, say a one foot ring of fire in the middle of the bed. And I went out to
00:09:40
tell my mom, there's a fire on the bed. And she, I was like, walked up to her and she waved me off.
00:09:45
I'll never forget. She's on the phone with the crazy long cord. It was mustard yellow.
00:09:50
She was walking around the kitchen doing stuff. And I would literally as like, imagine a five-year-old me with my finger up, pardon me, ma'am. And she's like,
00:09:57
out of here. And then, so I went back and checked it. And that was a three foot ring.
00:10:01
Are you serious? Yeah. And then that time I was like, mom. And she's like, honey, I told you.
00:10:06
And then I was like, the bed's on fire. That is so cool. And then suddenly I had a bad reputation in my family.
00:10:13
Oh, I'm the asshole. Well, who has a number one fucking murder podcast now? Mom.
00:10:19
This is the ultimate revenge. Oh, that's hilarious. Also, our numbers are skyrocketing in Britain, the UK.
00:10:30
Australia loves us. Those are Latvia. I hear we're doing well. No, I hate them. That's where my family's from.
00:10:38
Is it for really? So maybe a bunch of hardstarks are listening. I'll be amazing.
00:10:43
Yeah, Longford and Galway, Ireland. Heads up. That's where my people are from. Represent.
00:10:48
Well, they ran us out because we're Jews. So fuck off Latvia. Oh, wait. They ran us out because we're Catholics.
00:10:54
I feel like we were made to have a podcast together. Yeah. Our ancestors wanted this for us.
00:10:59
Our ancestors and our shitty little kid selves. I just want to mention someone on the Facebook page.
00:11:06
If you are new to this podcast, we're all about that Facebook page. Please join it and join in wonderful
00:11:12
and sometimes quite frightening conversations that go on there. Someone brought up the fact that we pitched out
00:11:19
a very interesting and exciting 911 phone call identifier game that we also mentioned on the Cracked podcast,
00:11:28
but we still haven't done. And there's some people who are pretty pissed. I explained that I'm very scared of 911
00:11:34
because they want us to do it anyway. So that might be a good mini. I really want to, yeah, for sure.
00:11:39
I really want to know if we can tell. Like it's just like the other, yesterday I watched some videos
00:11:44
of Ted Bundy being interviewed only to see if I could tell if, like if I had met him,
00:11:51
if I would have known. Yeah. You know? And it like the same thing of the 911 calls I want to know if we want to play three calls by husbands reporting their wives dead Two of them are legit One of them the husband killed her And we want to know if we can tell which one is the one who killed her
00:12:07
So we have to listen to two real 911 calls of a man whose wife has just been killed.
00:12:13
You know, when you say it like that. No, no, no, no. Everyone's being real, playing very fast and loose about the idea of this game, quote unquote,
00:12:21
called Nightmare Fuel. What about two? What about one is fake and one is real? That I can handle.
00:12:27
And if we play it once, because I have listened to these calls, I've watched plenty of forensic files or whatever,
00:12:33
but they're just horrifying. I know. Even when they're fake, I think they might even be more horrifying when they're fake
00:12:38
because it's embarrassing. How about we don't do it? Let's pitch a ton of great games
00:12:45
that people love the idea of and never do. And then never do. Why doesn't someone play the game
00:12:49
with the Facebook followers? And that can be on them. that's a good idea and then report back how scarred you are yep once how scarred you are
00:12:58
and what percentage of people know it's interesting that you bring up the ted bundy interview though
00:13:02
because i as well as a couple people who are listening and have been talking about it
00:13:07
am rereading the stranger beside me the ann rule classic uh who is a crime writer who worked with
00:13:14
ted bundy on what was basically a suicide hotline in seattle in the 70s like can you get more
00:13:22
classic than that. I mean, talk about she was meant to write that book and meant to do that.
00:13:28
But the part I'm on right now, he went to this park in, I believe it was in the outer part of
00:13:38
Seattle and this really awesome lake park. I can't remember what it was called. Sorry. And
00:13:45
And he approached six different women that day to help him with his boat that wasn't actually there.
00:13:54
Holy shit. Can you help me with my boat? Then he gets into the car and then he says, oh, actually the boat's at home.
00:13:59
Sorry, I didn't explain that. And that's where he got at least one girl. Now I'm thinking he may have gotten two that day.
00:14:08
I can't remember. I just read this yesterday, but I keep reading it and then falling asleep out of, I think, like, I need to leave this.
00:14:15
these facts and go into a dream world. But it just makes me think he must have been so low key because he looked
00:14:23
like he would wear a tennis outfit and he was really good looking and he was kind of tall, you know?
00:14:28
Yeah. But here's the thing in the, in the interviews, he won't make eye contact with the interviewer.
00:14:32
He like, he'll go from long stretches of time, like looking down in a way and not looking up.
00:14:39
Yeah. He also has like some kind of weird jerky movements a little bit. so I'm wondering if he like did he get those after he went to prison and after he killed a
00:14:47
bunch of people or was he like that then and would I even have cared you know right yeah I mean that's
00:14:55
that's interesting did he have it like it was like a tick almost yeah or something and I'm like that's
00:14:59
creepy but is it only because I know that's Ted Bundy right he looks like someone my mom would
00:15:04
have dated yeah he looks like he looks like a guy that would be in like a Lipton tea commercial
00:15:10
in the late 70s. Yeah, with his pretty young wife. Yeah. They're toasting the tea.
00:15:17
They're rolling it up and smoking it. They're smoking some tea together and having a good time.
00:15:23
But it is, I bet you he was, I think the girls that paid attention were like, got, you know,
00:15:32
like at first started talking to him and then kept on paying attention and like got into it,
00:15:36
got that weird feeling. And of course, once they got to the car and like, no boat, see you later.
00:15:41
I've got to get back to my friends. But as we've, oh, sorry. No, I think you're going to say what I was going to say.
00:15:46
As we've said so many times, you couldn't be a fucking bitch back then. And like you were taught to be nice and friendly
00:15:53
and he fucking preyed upon that. And he probably also was really good at like turning on the charm.
00:15:58
Oh, a hundred percent. Right, so he didn't have a twitch and he seemed very nice.
00:16:03
I bet the twitch came after he was incarcerated and he was just like, I'm going crazy.
00:16:07
I bet that's what happened. I want to kill. would you how badly would you have would you have wanted to interview him
00:16:13
hmm i don't know i'm not sure about that because i like this story of what they do
00:16:23
i don't want to know that person yeah or be near that person because ultimately they're
00:16:28
you know a little bit of the devil yeah there's that um the iceman interviews oh yeah documentary
00:16:35
and that guy just seems normal and likable. He's the guy who was a mobster, hit man,
00:16:40
but he was also like a family man. And he's just casually talking about doing it.
00:16:46
Yeah. And he seemed, he had more charm to me and like likability, like, like, than Ted Bundy did.
00:16:55
I know. Well, I mean, but he's gotta be a sociopath or he would have been eaten alive by guilt
00:17:00
and remorse and shame and all that stuff. But I don't think he ever killed women and children.
00:17:04
So maybe it wasn't like Ted Bundy enjoyed. Yes, he sure did. Like got off on it.
00:17:08
This guy was like, it was his job and he probably felt a little self-righteous in it
00:17:12
of like, well, they owe money or they wronged someone. I mean, I support that. No, I don't.
00:17:19
That's why mafia hits don't interest me. Yeah. Because it's almost like a business transaction.
00:17:24
Like you don't deal with people who will kill you because they'll kill you. Totally.
00:17:27
They tell you they're going to kill you. You borrow money from them. You don't pay it back.
00:17:31
They kill you. That's very... They have a history of killing you. Yeah. They're good with killing.
00:17:36
Yet somehow we still date men. Come on, let's not be those people. Let's fucking get in there.
00:17:44
No, we won't. I'm kidding. I mean, those are some classic conversations. Yeah we were finding our footing We were realizing you could talk about fucking anything and it was fine We were sharing a lot about ourselves too Yeah A filling time
00:18:07
Stretching the podcast for time. I have a story about when I was five. Well, I have a story about when I was five.
00:18:14
Well, actually, your story from when you were five about lighting your bed on fire turned in, yes,
00:18:20
to one of Nick Terry's MFM animated sketches that you can see on our YouTube channel.
00:18:26
It's youtube.com slash exactly right media. It's episode 18 of MFM animated and it's a fucking classic.
00:18:34
And yeah, that's another way that you can ingest this original storytelling. Little did we know
00:18:40
when we were telling these stories at the time that they were gonna branch off into a whole other thing.
00:18:47
Thank God, because I think we would have been too nervous and we wouldn't have I mean we wouldn't do this all of that looking and being like oh we were
00:18:54
number one on the comedy podcast chart that was hilarious that was creepy to me where I was like
00:19:00
I think Vince showed it to me and I was like oh that must be your algorithm like that's not real
00:19:04
that must be like just from your phone and he's like it's not and it's not it's very but there
00:19:11
was a deep there was a deep wisdom in that response which is that's not real right because
00:19:15
it's like once you're in you're in with those fucking charts man it's just like it was also
00:19:20
very like hopeful of me that vince at all listened to or listens to this podcast ever
00:19:25
that it would be number one on his fucking chart that's hilarious my wonderful husband
00:19:31
you're little that's your little fantasy that you're like oh that's just you listening all the time to the parts you can barely stomach i don't listen to your podcast so
00:19:41
it's fair. I mean, those are, I think, two great examples of like true crime girlfriend,
00:19:47
wrestling boyfriend, where it's like, never the twain shall meet in terms of hobby. But
00:19:52
that doesn't mean anything about relationship. Not at all. And it works. And Vince has come
00:19:58
around to a lot of the true crime stuff. There's some shit he still can't handle. But yeah,
00:20:03
he loves it now. It's pretty great. Well, because they're just it's just amazing human stories at
00:20:08
the end of the day. Yeah. Speaking of an amazing human story, this is the episode where you tell
00:20:13
Latvia to fuck off. I mean, incredible, just incredible strides were taken. That was from my ancestors, from my grandmother, who was fucking chased out. And her village was
00:20:24
set on fire. And she lived for seven years in fields and barns, surviving on potatoes one night
00:20:30
and the skins of the potatoes the next night with all her siblings. This is the grandma that lived to be 103?
00:20:36
104. Grandma Thelma. 100. Yeah. Oh, shit. She fucking did it. She was made of like, she had bones and then she had muscles wrapped around those bones.
00:20:46
Yeah. And then she had nails wrapped around those muscles. Yeah. And then she had more muscles on top of the nails.
00:20:51
With a sprinkling of childhood trauma. It's what keeps you going. And I bet a sense of humor has got to have that.
00:20:58
Yeah. So, sorry, Lavia, but like kind of not sorry. You know what I mean? Well, it is about frenemies really on this episode.
00:21:05
It's true. That's kind of her thing. And then you were reading The Stranger Beside Me again.
00:21:10
We just like, do we just do that every six months? I think so. That's our hobby.
00:21:16
Yeah, that's our go-to. That's our strunk in white. And actually, speaking of wrestling boyfriend, true crime podcast, this story that I do ties both those things in in a really awful, terrible way.
00:21:29
This one made me very sad the night we recorded it. It was like the kind I went home with that one where I was just like, this is just the horrors that people are living through outside of our own doors.
00:21:42
And when you think everybody, people have the life, you think, you know, what makes a great life.
00:21:47
Fame, money, you know, family, big house, all the little trappings. Yeah. OK, let's listen to Georgia's story about the tragic murder suicide case of wrestler Chris Benoit.
00:22:02
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:22:09
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prince's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:22:16
It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance
00:22:21
when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast.
00:22:25
It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app. Search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy and start listening now.
00:22:33
How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.
00:22:37
No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, The Matchup with Aliyah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.
00:22:45
On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Claressa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard,
00:22:52
the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search The Matchup with Aliyah and listen now.
00:22:58
Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people.
00:23:07
Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
00:23:12
She trained in something called neuro-linguistic programming. People loved our training.
00:23:17
Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
00:23:24
A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
00:23:31
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:23:41
So the point of this podcast, if you're new, is that the title is My Favorite Murder,
00:23:47
and Karen and I tell each other our favorite murders. Sometimes there's a theme, sometimes there's not.
00:23:51
Today, absolutely no theme. No, thank you. I think it's your time to go first. Is it? Okay.
00:23:57
I think so. This is an interesting one that I'm really excited about. Okay. So, and I've been, okay.
00:24:05
So a lot of people have found the podcast through my husband Vince's podcast, We Watch Wrestling.
00:24:13
Yeah. Which is also on Feral. And a lot of ladies on the podcast or men have said,
00:24:18
I listened to My Favorite Murder and you listen to We Watch Wrestling. And sometimes I'm on, there's like an overlap
00:24:25
and they get excited and it's silly. Are you talking about cute couples that listen to the cute couples, Georgia and Vince's different
00:24:33
podcasts? Thank you. I mean, it's like you're the Prince William and Queen Vicky. What's her name?
00:24:40
Queen Vicky. I think it's Queen Vicky. Is it Queen Vicky and Prince William of England?
00:24:46
Definitely Queen Vicky. Hey, England, let us know if that's right. We just lost so many lists. We just lost Queen Vicky listening. She's like, fuck that bitch.
00:24:55
All right. So there's this murder that he told me about when we started dating that I didn't know about because it's in the wrestling world. And it's the murder, the murder suicide of and by Chris Benoit. Wow. Have you heard of that? His name, Chris Benoit. How old is it? It happened in 2007. I think I did hear about it, but I know nothing about wrestling at all.
00:25:19
Yeah. And I didn't when I first met him and now I know all this stuff. So it kind of makes sense
00:25:23
to me. So I wanted to explain it because it's actually really fucking interesting and crazy.
00:25:26
And murder suicides are like, they're really interesting to me because it's like encapsulated in this home, usually the horrors that go on in this little home where
00:25:39
people have lived and been happy and feel safe. And it somehow degrades into this insanity.
00:25:46
Yeah. And what's crazy about this one is it, the murder, it was the murder of his wife and his young son. And it happened over the whole weekend. So he kills his wife Friday night, like lives in his house being like, what the fuck am I going to do?
00:26:02
So Chris Benoit was a Canadian professional wrestler. He had a 22-year career. He held 22 titles.
00:26:11
And he had the victory of the World Heavyweight Championship main event match in WrestleMania.
00:26:17
What are two exes next to each other? That's 20. Thank you. Or that's almost super dirty.
00:26:25
Yeah. Third grade was a hard year for me. Couldn't concentrate? No. Okay. I was just smoking too many
00:26:32
T-cigarettes So I didn't even know about this guy but he was huge, like The Rock
00:26:39
I don't think he was as big as The Rock, which is a wrestler everyone knows, but he was pretty big up there
00:26:43
He was widely respected by viewers and peers, and people really liked this guy, he was a little weird
00:26:49
and a little quiet and intense A lot of people said he was intense, but that he was
00:26:53
a nice guy, he had a lot of friends but so it suggests that depression and brain damage accrued from numerous concussions that was
00:27:06
contributed to him committing these awful crimes. The concussion thing is big. Well,
00:27:10
we're going to get into that. Okay. Yeah, it really is. And then you just hit play on the
00:27:14
movie concussion and we're just going to sit and listen to the whole thing. Listen to Will Smith
00:27:18
do this accent and explain to you why concussions are bad. Is that a good movie? I've never seen it.
00:27:23
I don't want to watch it if it wasn't Will Smith because that guy is actually really fascinating.
00:27:27
that doctor yeah i watched a documentary with him and he's like i bet it's actually a great movie i
00:27:32
just of all the things i have to do in my day sitting down to realize how basically they've
00:27:37
subsidized subsidized damaging people's brains it'll never stop happening there's too much money
00:27:43
and it's a machine where people care more about making money than human beings i just get really
00:27:47
there's a period at the end that's all true it's oh so he well here's the thing one of his one of
00:27:53
his moves was the diving headbutt. Oh no. So he'd stand at the top of the turnbuckle, you know,
00:27:59
when they climb up high and he would spread his arms out and just like do a fucking fall,
00:28:05
headbutting the other guy on the canvas, either in the back or elsewhere. So using his head basically as a weapon. Yep. But like free fall head. Jesus Christ.
00:28:14
So he had another signature move, which will come back called the crippler cross face.
00:28:19
and this is a submission hold where he would lock the opponent's arms behind him with his legs while
00:28:24
pulling back on his neck it's almost like a hardcore um headlock but like on the face and
00:28:31
sometimes the move would even knock people unconscious oh so we'll get back to that
00:28:34
real unconscious not wrestling unconscious real unconscious um so on june 25th 2007
00:28:41
the police were called to Benoit's like incredible gated security, hardcore mansion.
00:28:49
And they couldn't get in because of all the gating and stuff, which they could have climbed over,
00:28:54
but there were two crazy Doberman pinchers, sorry, German shepherds roaming the front lawn.
00:28:59
Like this guy was hardcore security showing that he had a lot of paranoia, but also was rich and famous.
00:29:05
So yeah, but I bet a lot of people don't have like Nazi dogs, you know, on the property.
00:29:11
Yes. And so the home was in Fayetteville, Georgia, but it was like an unincorporated part.
00:29:17
So they had to get the next door neighbor, Holly Schreifer, who was a good friend of Nancy Benoit, the wife, and would sometimes take care of the dog.
00:29:27
So she clopped on over the fence. She was part horse. She clippity clopped. She did a, what's a horse maneuver?
00:29:37
You know, some dressage. She did a dressage right over the fence. That's a general.
00:29:41
part of making fun or no making light of murder that's what we are just making light of mistakes
00:29:48
in our mouths that's it yeah this holly person sounds like a good person so she got over she and
00:29:54
then then she went into the house which you like oh civilian don do that wait well the cops are waiting outside She goes over the fence to open all the shit but she goes into the house So she sees everything first
00:30:05
Well, she goes over the fence, locks the dogs in the house in like a little spot.
00:30:09
Oh. And then it's like, I'm just going to do a once around because she can't get a hold of her friend Nancy.
00:30:14
Holy, let the cops do the once around. Don't do a once around. She finds the kid, Daniel.
00:30:22
So should I? basically he did that crippler cross face on the kid. This little, I think he was seven.
00:30:35
There's reports that he had something called, where did it go? He had a genetic syndrome called fragile X,
00:30:44
meaning he was met the criteria for autism. It's inherited. It's like kind of a, it's like an intellectual disability,
00:30:51
but there's conflicting evidence of that. So I don't know if that's true. So, so what happened was, this is all over the place, isn't it?
00:30:59
No, no, no. You just nodded your head. No, I, I have, I nodded my head so I don't picture Holly walking through the house and
00:31:05
what she's seeing because that's the bummer. So here's how it took place. On Friday night, Ben Wack kills his wife and he leaves her bound at the ankles and wrists.
00:31:15
He covers her in a sheet and he leaves a Bible by her body. That's not going to work.
00:31:21
I know. died of asphyxiation, had bruises on her back and stomach. And he had been physically violent with her in the past.
00:31:28
He had been abusive. Well, because also, sorry, but on top of concussions, he's probably taking a bunch of steroids, right?
00:31:36
Yeah. So they're both taking a ton of steroids. There's a ton of- The wife too? Yeah.
00:31:40
There's a ton of marital discord. It's on again, off again. They had just, she had filed for divorce
00:31:46
and then didn't go through with it. She leaves all the time. he's possibly having an affair.
00:31:53
There's like all these text messages between the two of them. I should say the book that I was reading about it
00:31:57
is called Chris and Nancy by Irvin Muchnick. Muchnick? Mr. Muchnick? It's really good if you want to learn more about it
00:32:07
and it's detailed. Was she a wrestler too? Yeah. No, she was like the hype man girl.
00:32:12
You know, like hot girls that come into the ring. Hold the big card over their head?
00:32:16
That's, no, that's boxing, I think. she'd be his like his sidekick kind of like the woman and you know and actually her she was so
00:32:27
interesting and gorgeous that her name at the time was just woman was her like handle
00:32:32
yeah that's how gorgeous she was yeah that she was reduced to a one-worthy eye so she they got
00:32:40
set up um by her husband at the time in as like a you know to be like oh they're he's cheating with
00:32:48
Benoit and then they ended up getting married. So it worked. Oh. So anyways, so.
00:32:53
But it was a story. It was a wrestling storyline that came true. Yeah. Okay. So their lives are a
00:32:57
bit surreal anyway. Definitely. Definitely. So she, let's see, there was a pillow leaning against
00:33:06
her head. It sounds like what happened was they probably got in a big fight and it escalated
00:33:10
and he killed her. The weird part to me is that he tied her up because that's so, that shows like
00:33:16
premeditation to me. He didn't just like hit her so hard or get angry and strangle her.
00:33:22
He tied her up and then killed her. I wonder because steroids, it's like, I took speed for
00:33:30
a little while in the nineties to lose weight. Sure. We all did. And right. And it made me
00:33:36
insane. Like just angry from the second I woke up in the morning. Yeah. And if you're on steroids,
00:33:42
which is it they're basically rage pills yeah so it's two people on steroids i'm sure that
00:33:47
everything was intensified times a million yeah like and they're and they're reacting off each
00:33:53
other but it's not there there's not it seems to me i would assume there's not one person going
00:33:58
hey let's relax for one second yeah it's just everybody's going through the room and he was
00:34:03
supposed to leave that weekend for another match and she just was so pissed that he was leaving all
00:34:06
the time they they found the amount of pills that they ended up finding in the house it's just
00:34:10
incredible it's they found soma and hydrocodone which is fucking heroin right xanax and all these
00:34:18
you know ambien and and of course steroids and he was actually exempt from the rule that you can't
00:34:25
take steroids in the in wwe because he had ruined his body so badly with steroids that he had
00:34:34
couldn't make testosterone on his on his own anymore so he had to take steroids to get testosterone
00:34:39
Oh, okay. So even though there's no steroid rule. He was taking it medically. Yeah, but that's so shady.
00:34:47
Right. Like that's your solution for being fucked up on steroids is... I'm such a bad coke addict that I need to take coke.
00:34:55
Right. Yeah. I've ruined my ability to just whatever. Anyways, all of the above.
00:35:00
Yes. So between the two killings, about 3.30 p.m. on Saturday, it looks like he might have killed Daniel on Saturday the next day. So he's hanging out in
00:35:14
his house with his fucking wife in the office dead, not knowing what to do, calls his coworkers
00:35:20
and is like, I can't make it. My wife and kid have food poisoning and they're really sick. Kind
00:35:28
of tells everyone that so they won't call. Yeah. So Daniel, the kid was then suffocated in his own
00:35:35
bedroom, a children's Bible was left by his body. And he had become kind of a religious fanatic at that point by reading.
00:35:42
He was reading in that span of the, in that weekend. Yeah. I mean, up until this, you know, leading up to the murders,
00:35:48
he killed his son with the chokehold, no bruises. And yeah, so he had needle marks in his arm suggesting he had been given growth hormones the sun or the crystal The sun because he was undersized because of this fragile X syndrome that he supposedly had
00:36:06
But I don't understand that completely. And I'm wondering if he gave him sedatives.
00:36:10
Oh. So he could, yeah. You know what I mean? Yes. That would almost be a tiny bit of a relief,
00:36:16
as hideous as that sounds. I agree. And I think in his mind, people have surmised that he thought
00:36:23
he was doing a mercy killing. Of course. He had killed the mom. Let's just fucking end this.
00:36:28
In the same way that I think a lot of men who do the murder-suicide shenanigans to their family are like, I lost all our money. I'm not going to make you live this way and kill the family.
00:36:38
Right. Just fucking insane. We're good. We want to live as someone who could be a wife's kid.
00:36:43
Well, yeah, it sounds, it's twisted as some sort of noble move. It's total narcissism.
00:36:48
It's complete narcissism to think that they're an extension of you. And you get to make that call.
00:36:52
Right. It's nuts. Right. And also everybody's in debt. Yeah. Relax about it. Yeah.
00:37:00
It's complete. It's, it's them, it's him, it's the person not wanting them to find out what a fucking,
00:37:05
that he wasn't who they, he said he was. Right. Well, also this is classic drug brain too.
00:37:09
Like it's like. Yeah. Let me get to it. So yeah. So it's okay. So he dies. This is how he kills himself.
00:37:17
He dies of asphyxiation. He was found hanging by the cord of a weight machine. So he goes down to the weight,
00:37:22
the weight room and he um he's sitting upright on a bench on like a weight a weight bench facing
00:37:30
the weight machine so you can imagine like doing pull downs what do they call them
00:37:34
i work out a lot i as you can see he did like six reps of pull downs right okay he was shirtless
00:37:43
um his leg was extended his right blah blah the black nylon weight machine cable was around his
00:37:50
neck. A strip of white towel was underneath to keep the cable from cutting into the skin, which is like, you don't deserve that,
00:37:56
dude. And he was being... But also, what's the point? Yeah. And he was being held in a sitting
00:38:02
position by the cable. So I think what he did is just like let go of the weight and
00:38:07
strangled himself. And it appears that he actually tried to maximize his own pain,
00:38:15
which is so sad. It sounds like he he knew he did something wrong. Yeah. It doesn't sound like he was like,
00:38:24
I'm going to murder suicide, everyone. It was like, here's a mistake compounded with a mistake
00:38:28
compounded with a mistake. God, it's terrible. Yeah, he's trapped in this horror show.
00:38:34
Sommeliers would like to note, I'd like to note that there was a bottle of Dynamite Vineyards 2000 Merlot
00:38:40
next to the body. Why? I think I probably drank it. What sick fuck Sommeliers need to make that note?
00:38:49
You assholes. Me? No. They didn't really ask that. They didn't really request that, Karen.
00:38:56
Who, me? This is the episode I turn on you for liking murder. You dick, Georgia.
00:39:02
This is disgusting. Dare you. So let's talk about his brain damage. So after the murders and such, there was no pre-existing mental or physical ailments.
00:39:15
He did have some depression, obviously. um and where did my other notes go oh they're at the printer i left my fucking notes
00:39:26
let's sing a little song about the printer printer notes luckily it's just right there
00:39:33
feels good um we should walk it off a little bit yeah all right so uh they've been searching for
00:39:43
answers the family because it does not add up that this is the same man this lovely man right
00:39:48
this family man seven-year-old son of course down to anabolic steroids they thought that it was
00:39:56
roid rage but it turns out that um i hear he's wrong it wasn't roid rage i mean i'm sure there
00:40:03
was some added to that he ben benoit's brain was that of an 86 year old alzheimer's patient
00:40:12
yeah in the same way with football players who are constantly getting concussion after concussion
00:40:19
and i mean there there's a story in this book about how in one fight he and this other guy just
00:40:25
banged each other's fucking heads into each other until they bled that hurts so bad when you hit
00:40:32
heads with another person have you ever done that accidentally no like you both been down fast at
00:40:37
the same time. Steven knows what I'm talking about. And you smack your head. It is loud
00:40:43
and it hurts for like 20 minutes after. And the idea that that's what he basically did
00:40:49
for a living. Have you ever had a concussion? No, I did get flipped out of the back of a truck
00:40:55
when I was in seventh grade. Remember when we could light fires in our room alone and sit in
00:41:01
the back of trucks? Yes. This is the country life that I led. No, this is the eighties.
00:41:06
man. We already put them on notice. Yes, that's true. And for good fucking reason. Me and my
00:41:11
friend, it was my, my dad was so livid because he told us don't drive that truck. Definitely.
00:41:17
Too far away. The brakes aren't great. We drove up into the national park, uphill, uphill, uphill.
00:41:23
And as we're driving, we can smell the brakes in the back. And, but it was, it was our next door
00:41:28
neighbor, Andy, me, my sister, her friend, Maureen, her friend, Christine. I can't remember Andy's
00:41:35
friend's name, poor kid who was the one driving the truck. We start going down a hill through a
00:41:39
campsite. Brakes go out. He literally is driving a truck with four girls in it with him and the
00:41:46
brakes go out. He hits the back of Andy's car. Andy pulls forward. He tries to go over on the
00:41:52
side of the dirt embankment Instead he drives up onto the dirt embankment flips the car Holy shit Me and Holly my best friend Holly Gardner was with me We go flying out of the back of the truck and midair I remember very clearly thinking when I hit the ground
00:42:07
my skirt's going to fly up over onto my back and my underwear will be showing. So I have to make sure the second I hit the ground, I have to stand up.
00:42:14
And I literally hit and stood up immediately. Do you think that saved you? Yes, for sure.
00:42:19
Well, Holly fell too, but she, neither of my mom was a nurse. she woke us up five times that night to check our eyes for concussion eyes.
00:42:28
I just imagine a concussion and maybe I've had one and I just don't remember it, but I can,
00:42:32
the wobbly brain, like that is just, nothing feels right. And you don't even understand that
00:42:40
you have a concussion. I don't think. How did you get a concussion? Maybe I didn't.
00:42:46
Are you totally full of shit right now? No, maybe I've had a concussion and that's why I
00:42:50
remember anything. I think I was in a car accident when I was a kid and had one. Yeah. Hit your head.
00:42:56
Yeah. But I was with a girl once who had one because she got clunked in the head with a
00:43:01
softball and she just started crying. We were like hanging out at night and she starts crying and
00:43:06
has to go to the hospital. Anyways, it looks terrible. It seems terrible, but can you imagine
00:43:11
having dozens over the 10 year span. Yeah. Yeah. And that just sidebar totally is like points,
00:43:21
makes me want to point to OJ right now because that's that thing of like, yes, in the beginning, he was the American hero.
00:43:26
But when you have a full career where that happens to you every day, practice and in games,
00:43:32
you know, 50 times a week or whatever, your brain cannot, you don't remain the person that you started as.
00:43:39
Vince told me an interesting thing recently that hockey players, like in the 70s,
00:43:45
they put in, or maybe even like the 80s or 90s, like at some point they were like,
00:43:49
helmets have to be used. But if you've been playing before that, it was your choice if you wanted to wear a helmet.
00:43:55
So everyone from then on had to wear a helmet if you got hired. But you might've been just too far gone
00:44:01
where it's like, fuck it, you don't have to. If you've owned a motorcycle before 19,
00:44:07
you don't have to wear a helmet. It's like, that was a law. I really love hockey players so much
00:44:12
because hockey is so graceful and beautiful and yet insanely violent and male, which I think is very sexy.
00:44:19
Oh, I don't like fights. They scare me. What, Georgia? Really? It's the stuff of life.
00:44:25
I hate fights. Two guys punching each other? Oh, I hate it. It makes me so, especially-
00:44:29
I think it's hilarious. In ice skating? What if an ice skating- Ice fight? Yeah, that's what this is.
00:44:35
What if ice skating had the same amount? no but in michelle kwan just punching somebody in the face there's something about in um in hockey
00:44:45
that because they're so bulked up and have so much padding on that the punches and the whole
00:44:49
fight is slow-mo yes and so you can see their face and i'm always like is he gonna cry i just
00:44:54
stresses me i don't like it i bet they'd never cry i bet they know when you you know when you're
00:45:00
really angry and you're like trying not to cry yes i always wonder if they're feeling that it is
00:45:04
just funny that there it's that that is a sport where fighting is completely allowed accepted and
00:45:11
the refs pretend they're going to do something and they just let them fight it out totally it's very
00:45:15
violent yeah so and one would think with wrestling it being like um almost like an acrobatic feat
00:45:23
it's not like it's not you're not really hurting the person right that you wouldn't get hurt then
00:45:29
but I mean there's so many accidents that happen and so many bad wrestlers that that don't know how that don't know how to interact with other wrestlers when they're
00:45:39
fighting they also do that stuff I remember seeing that documentary I just saw part of it
00:45:43
about mankind oh he's amazing when he fell through the fucking chain link fence but there was a part
00:45:51
where he just gets clocked in the head with a folding chair oh yeah and it's a real folding
00:45:55
chair. It's not, they don't use like, they don't mock anything up. They pick up a real metal fucking
00:46:01
high school auditorium folding chair and hit each other in the head with them. They don't do that anymore. You're not allowed to hit
00:46:07
in the head anymore. Because of the mankind rule? I think because of the Chris Benoit rule. Really?
00:46:13
Yeah. Because they realized how bad it is. Yeah. I think he did a lot to make that and not
00:46:19
allowed anymore. So yeah. So let's see. Wait. so um repeat concussions can lead to dementia which can contribute to severe behavioral problems
00:46:33
blah blah wait there's one other part of um yeah sorry it took us down a no and we've talked about
00:46:43
it also 85 year old alzheimer's patient it's lifetime chronic concussions head trauma i kind
00:46:50
Kind of didn't even know what he was doing. Maybe. I think it's just such a severe personality change.
00:46:57
Like, like, you know, you and I, when we're 85, are going to act in similar ways that we do now.
00:47:02
We're not going to kill people. We're not going to like, you promise. I'll try my best to live to be 85.
00:47:10
Yeah. Let's get that done first. And then achieve that. At that point, we might just start killing people because no one would suspect us.
00:47:16
I mean, you might as well. Right. Yeah. So, yeah, But he just was a different person with different emotions and different moods than the person he was raised to be and was for years and years, probably.
00:47:31
So sad. It's so sad. So Chris Benoit, that's my favorite murder this week. That's a good one.
00:47:37
Thank you. Did Vince actually make an appearance on this episode? No, I don't think he's in this one.
00:47:45
But, you know, he would come home from work while we were recording a lot because we recorded in our apartment.
00:47:50
I think that's what made me think of it as like as he's coming home from work, he pulls out the thing, his blue card of what he needs to say as he walks through the living room and then goes somewhere else.
00:48:00
Someone who told me about this story, too, I had no idea. Yeah, when we started dating, he's like, here's something I can be interesting to her about.
00:48:05
And it was true. But there's no case updates on the story. It kind of, you know, all settled itself.
00:48:11
But I do think a good thing is that people are looking a lot more into traumatic brain injury and how much it changes a person.
00:48:21
And then hopefully taking steps to, you know, not have that happen anymore. For example, Chris Benoit, one of his signature moves was the diving headbutt, which is like, I really hope and don't think that that would ever happen.
00:48:34
In fact, now on WWE, there's almost no blood or there's not supposed to be blood anymore, which I think is, you know, a step in the right direction.
00:48:43
Yeah, sometimes the whole headbutt thing is like just cracking skulls against each other.
00:48:47
So it's like, because that used to be in the 80s. And maybe it was that time of boys in my high school.
00:48:53
There was a whole trend of headbutting, like seniors headbutting freshmen. Yes. What?
00:48:58
It was horrifying. Yeah. And they would just walk up and smash their head into like a little kid that would then they'd have to not cry in front of everybody.
00:49:06
It was like, it was so horrible. But also as year after year passes and people are talking about concussions, CTE, all these things damaging your head like that.
00:49:19
No, it's so scary and awful. And like, yeah. All right. Well, here's some more awful.
00:49:27
And I wonder if in the beginning of our podcast, it got big quickly because all our stories were really, really awful in the beginning because we were like all the stories that have stuck with us.
00:49:37
We told them. Right. And so every single episode had just like two horrific stories.
00:49:42
Well, and also, you know, they all are in every imaginable way. But I do think what we were doing was saying, this one stuck with me, this one stuck with me.
00:49:52
And everyone has that because if you follow true crime, there's a reason you got into it and there's a reason you stayed in it.
00:49:59
And it was that kind of thing of like, well, this has to be the worst thing I've ever heard.
00:50:03
Oh, no, now there's this. And I think for you and I, and then maybe everyone else, it was a little cathartic to finally get it out of that circling, circling, circling part in our brain that couldn't stop thinking about it and like sharing it.
00:50:15
Absolutely. You know, it's like, I want you to have some of this horror too. And you're like, I got you.
00:50:19
Well, I got you. And that one is also swirling in my brain. So we can all kind of relax for a second or just keep on loading them up.
00:50:27
Whatever works. Yeah. It was a different time. 2016. It was the luxury. Yeah. But it was also like proof to the people who were like, what's wrong with you?
00:50:35
Calm down. Being like, do you hear all these stories? Nothing's wrong with me. It's all fucking real.
00:50:40
It's not, I'm not being paranoid. It's not, you know, Freddy Krueger is real. There's all of these things are like trackable and worse in real life than they are in the
00:50:49
movies about horror monsters or whatever. So speaking of, let's get into Karen's story from episode 17.
00:50:56
This is the murder of Jennifer Moore. 10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
00:51:08
Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events
00:51:14
that really ever happened in New York City politics. I screamed, get down, get down.
00:51:20
Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
00:51:27
It may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:51:34
or wherever you get your podcasts. How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130.
00:51:40
I'm at 183. We should race. No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast to match up with L'Aleah,
00:51:46
I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ
00:51:52
Claressa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard,
00:51:56
the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free iHeartRadio app,
00:52:01
Search the matchup with Aaliyah and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
00:52:08
Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:52:17
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,
00:52:24
tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeart Radio app.
00:52:30
search joy 101 and listen now joy 101 with hoda copy is presented by cvs what's your favorite murder karen georgia my favorite murder um uh is i got the idea from my
00:52:48
friend carol craft who is listens hi she and my sister have worked together uh did work together
00:52:56
for years, she was the school secretary. She's one of the funniest people on the planet. Carol
00:53:01
Craft is the greatest. And she, my sister, when she told my sister, she's listening to the podcast,
00:53:06
my sister said, uh, what's your hometown murder? And Carol immediately said, duh, it's Jennifer
00:53:13
Moore. And then I remembered and Laura remembered. And, uh, the reason I, so I started looking it up
00:53:20
Cause I was like, oh, is that that thing? And the memory, um, the kind of like central memory I have around it is my mother.
00:53:29
Okay. So my hometown is Petaluma, which is the first city in Sonoma County. And Novato is the last city in Marin County.
00:53:36
And they, they are right against each other. Okay. So, uh, like my high school, a bunch of people who lived in Novato drove up to Petaluma to
00:53:43
go to my high school. Got it. There wasn't a Catholic high school in Novato. You went to a Catholic high school?
00:53:48
Yeah. Wow. A really small one. So I had a ton of friends that lived in Novato. They kind of like those two cities You going back and forth a lot up there And Nevada is kind of like a bedroom community for people who work in San Francisco commuters and stuff Because it
00:54:07
really nice and close to the city, but still outside enough so that you are in a nice kind
00:54:11
of country suburb. And it's basically, it's tons of tract homes and beautiful little shopping areas
00:54:18
and oak trees and rolling fields and stuff. It's a really lovely little city. Sounds really charming.
00:54:24
It is charming. So my mom used to work at the Kaiser in San Rafael, which is the next big city down below
00:54:30
Novato. And so when the 101 got backed up, which it always did because it narrowed between Novato
00:54:37
and Petaluma. So all of the traffic would just get all condensed. What everyone would do was get off the freeway and take the back roads.
00:54:44
And so you go down Novato Boulevard and Novato Boulevard takes you out to like Stony Point
00:54:49
road which is where the um the cheese factory is and like that's where you take relatives that are
00:54:55
visiting and it's basically a cheese factory that's way out in the country next to a lake i used to
00:55:00
have to drive by this whole area when i went to court reporting school in like not san jose but
00:55:05
like court reporting school yeah you never told me you went to court reporting i never finished
00:55:11
but excuse me that's episode one information god damn it yeah i worked at i went to court
00:55:18
reporting school and you could do that machine Georgia because I worked at a core reporting
00:55:23
office and these women made like so much money and it was fascinating to just sit in depositions
00:55:28
which is like my life I would just sit there and read depositions all day that's amazing probably
00:55:33
illegal um so I decided to go to core reporting school but it's I'm jealous I'm angry I have all
00:55:41
these feelings running through me right now I'm sorry that's okay go ahead sorry um no I
00:55:46
We'll talk later. So my mom was driving home on the, we call it the back road. So basically it's
00:55:53
like you're cutting around through the country to get up to Petaluma out of Novato. And on the way
00:55:59
out of Novato, there's Indian Valley golf course, there's Stafford Lake, and then on. So it gets
00:56:06
very country very quickly right outside the city. That's cool. So my mom was driving home one night
00:56:13
and it was dusk and she saw cops on the side of the road and she saw them pulling garbage bags out of a ditch.
00:56:21
And when she got home, she saw on the news and I'm almost positive we were there with her
00:56:26
because I can remember, but I do this all the time where I can write memories very easily.
00:56:31
But I feel like I remember my mom having a freak out because she saw on the news,
00:56:37
they had finally discovered the body of the little girl who had gone missing four days earlier.
00:56:42
and that was this girl, Jennifer Moore. So my mom actually saw them find the body,
00:56:48
which is when my sister reminded me of it in this text, I was like, this is epic.
00:56:53
I couldn't be more proud. Isn't it weird that your brain can just lose these moments?
00:56:57
Like we talk about this every week, murder. And I never thought about it. Lost. Yeah.
00:57:01
It's just kind of not, it's so filed so far back. So essentially this is what happened.
00:57:07
Jennifer Moore was 13 years old And on Thursday, April 13th, 1989, she called her mom at work crying because she had gotten three C's on her report card.
00:57:17
So her mom said, go walk down and buy some ice cream. And so and this is another thing where I didn't I didn't look into it, but it pretty much sounded like she was being raised by a single mother and she was latch keying just like we all did.
00:57:30
Fuck. So she goes to walk down to the Baskin Robbins on Nevada Boulevard, which as I was reading this, I knew exactly where all of this was as I was reading it. And so when the mom comes home from work that night, Jennifer's not there. And she knows from the last time she talked to her, when she told her to go get ice cream, it was way, way, way too long for her not to be there.
00:57:52
Yeah. She knew she wasn't a runway. I read in this article, interestingly enough, the age 12 to 14 are prime runaway years.
00:58:02
And so anytime someone is that age and they call to report the missing, the cops have the habit of assuming this is what it is because that's usually or it's commonly the case.
00:58:14
Yeah. But of course, the mother assured them this is very wrong. She didn't run away.
00:58:20
All of her stuff is in a room. her purse is in a room like all she did was take the money for the ice cream i was a runaway did
00:58:26
you ever run away no i think i when i was like five because i was going to show my mom and i
00:58:31
basically took a suitcase out to the road and then came back inside immediately yeah packed a suitcase
00:58:36
put under the bed i did stay out during my when i was like 13 my drug years yeah stay out all like
00:58:42
overnight and they straight up called the cops and yeah i was i was a runaway well they should
00:58:48
though. Yeah. That's good though. I know. I feel so bad about that. Yeah. You didn't know you were on drugs. Yeah.
00:58:56
So the cops check her school records. They see that she's had perfect attendance and that she's, you know,
00:59:02
that's not the person that we're talking about. So, so they, they start looking into it.
00:59:10
Two days pass and they start handing out the, have you seen me flyers which of course again seems a little late for me very late i don't like it
00:59:20
but um uh i think that this is 1989 so back then they were like we just want to see
00:59:27
probably yeah is this is the idea uh so on day three a person driving um down nevado boulevard
00:59:36
uh sees garbage bags in a ditch on the side of the road and goes and looks in them and finds
00:59:41
jennifer's nude body um that poor person who found them do you think he knew what was going
00:59:46
on like what was looking for well he uh there's a very good chance he saw on the news because this
00:59:51
was all over the news this little girl face have you seen me this girl missing so uh it it did hit the news like the next night okay um so maybe that flyer thing was just the cops like on the street doing it because I remember that well I shouldn say that cause
01:00:08
I don't know the exact chronology, but. Do you remember like the, the big, like, is it the small
01:00:14
enough town where it's like, this is what everyone's talking about? A hundred percent.
01:00:17
Cause this doesn't happen. A hundred percent. This is, this, this is a town, uh, just like Petaluma
01:00:23
where people did not lock their doors back then. And when you see this picture, it's such a 1989 picture.
01:00:28
She's got braces. She's got these bangs. She's got the big hoop earrings. She's so cute.
01:00:33
And she just looks like a girl from your junior high. Don't kill me, these sweet kids.
01:00:38
Yeah. When I see them, I always say, I'm so sorry. I know. I know. So yeah, this poor motorist.
01:00:47
That is my theory, I should say. I think that that person saw that a girl was missing on the news.
01:00:52
and then when they saw the garbage bags pulled over and checked and then their worst nightmare
01:00:58
was confirmed so um uh everyone's in the in the in between time of course no one let their
01:01:07
children leave the house no one there were no latchkey kids right once it was announced that
01:01:12
she was missing um so the cops look at the plastic bags and inside uh i should say plastic bag i
01:01:21
It was just the one big garbage bag. At the bottom, there were a Sunday school like leaflets.
01:01:30
And one of the policemen recognized it as that, oh, my kids use those at their Sunday school.
01:01:35
So this is like probably a local church Sunday school leaflet. So they decide to start checking all the churches nearby.
01:01:42
And they map out from her house to the ice cream parlor, what churches are in between.
01:01:49
and so uh they go to bethel baptist church on nevado boulevard and um they notice when the
01:01:59
cops show up there they notice there's four big garbage cans outside two of them have garbage
01:02:04
garbage liners garbage bag garbage bags inside of them and two don't so they go over and check
01:02:10
it's the same type of garbage so this probably had happened in the last day yes yeah they they
01:02:17
immediately are like okay this is you know yeah like this is can't be a coincidence or like would
01:02:23
be a very uh the probability of that being a coincidence i love when puzzle pieces fit together
01:02:29
yeah and that they're you know this might be a little makeup work but i everything i read in this
01:02:36
it was like the cops were like eagle-eyed and i think that is that thing of a tiny town where it's
01:02:41
everybody's daughter. Totally. So, so they see that they match, they see that it's a match of
01:02:47
the same type of garbage bag and they, they go and immediately get bloodhounds and they have the
01:02:53
bloodhounds. Um, they, they have them sent on Jennifer's clothing and then the bloodhounds take
01:02:59
them directly back to the Jennifer's house. So they know that this is the, this is where she
01:03:04
ended up. This is the church. So she basically took a shortcut from her house through a creek
01:03:12
area that was in the back of the church and then up through the church. So they go into the church
01:03:19
to look for evidence and they talk to the pastor there who shows them something weird that he had
01:03:25
noticed. There was a coffee cup that had been like the coffee had been spilled in the library,
01:03:30
but no one had picked the coffee cup back up off the floor. So it was just this coffee stain.
01:03:36
And it was weird to him because beverages were not allowed in the, in the church library.
01:03:40
So, you know, it's weird enough that someone made that spill, but then they didn't even clean up half of it basically.
01:03:48
So the crime lab comes, pulls up the carpet, tests it. There's blood and bleach.
01:03:53
So in the same spot. Yeah. So he spilled the coffee over it. Yes. To be there. There was a big blood stain.
01:04:01
But so he was like, nope, it's a coffee stain. Here's a coffee cup. Oh, see? You know, don't worry about this coffee stain.
01:04:08
Oh my goodness. So they get onto that immediately. And then when detectives search the rest of the church,
01:04:15
they find a brown bomber jacket at the bottom of their clothing donation bin. And it was the jacket that Jennifer wore
01:04:21
when she left the house to go get ice cream. Whoa. So now they know, and they check the pockets.
01:04:26
She had the rubber bands for her braces were in the pocket. so they know it was hers.
01:04:30
So now they know this is the, we've got a location. So the pastor remembers that he'd gotten to work
01:04:37
early Friday morning. She had disappeared Thursday. And when he got there, the door was not only unlocked,
01:04:44
it was a jar. So basically there were three people on Thursday night that were at the church that could have been involved.
01:04:51
One was the janitor. One was the youth pastor. And one was the teenager that was helping
01:04:57
the youth pastor with gardening. Can I guess? Yes. The youth. Hell yeah. It's the youth pastor.
01:05:05
Oh, wait, no, I was guessing the kid. Oh shit. Damn it. You know, it's really funny that you
01:05:10
just said that, and maybe this is the way it's going. I read a bunch of articles about this,
01:05:15
but it's such a small town and it was so long ago. I could only get these little short ones
01:05:18
from the LA Times and then, and of course, Wikipedia. But then I found the transcript
01:05:24
for a TV show called iDetective. Have you ever seen that show? So it's, I don't think it's on anymore.
01:05:30
It was on, it was on like court TV. It's that old. But basically they would lay out a true crime story
01:05:38
and then they would tell you the evidence that the cops found and then go, is it A, the U, B, remember that?
01:05:45
And you would make a guess. Then they would tell you what the right answer is and why.
01:05:48
So you were kind of basically learning how cops do their procedural shit as you watch.
01:05:53
Oh, that sounds fucking awesome. So I stumble upon a transcript for the episode about the Jennifer Moore murder Holy shit So you just intuited something
01:06:06
I think you should be very proud of yourself. But at the same time, I thought that the youth pastor and the janitor were too obvious.
01:06:11
I just cheered because it was the youth pastor. There's always going to be victims in this show.
01:06:19
So it turns out that the kid that was helping the youth pastor garden had a record and was a bad kid, but his grandma had come and picked him up at 630 that night.
01:06:31
And so he had an alibi. And then the janitor wasn't at home when they went to go question him.
01:06:39
So he was really high up on the list. And then they go visit the youth pastor and he's a 29 year old ex-Marine named Scott Williams.
01:06:49
He owns a gas station nearby. He's a Sunday school teacher, whatever. He works at the church all the time.
01:06:58
So he's well-liked by the community, all the stuff we always hear. So they go talk to him
01:07:06
and he admits that he was the last person to leave on Thursday night. Andy can't account for his whereabouts that night.
01:07:14
He's kind of saying there was a meeting at the gas station. Oh, but I did miss it because I was doing,
01:07:19
you know, the gardening or whatever. And he's real evasive. So they're like, we don't like this guy.
01:07:25
And then he's not. Yeah, exactly. And then he suggests that he take a polygraph.
01:07:30
So they're like, oh, well, that's a good way to dissuade anybody. You're insisting you're innocent.
01:07:35
Well, he fails the polygraph test. And at the end of it, the polygraph examiner,
01:07:40
who I believe was from the FBI, because they brought the FBI in really early. That's so smart.
01:07:45
It's so smart. I wish more of that would have happened. Yeah. In a lot of cases.
01:07:49
I know. Just get the big boys in. It's not an insult. So at the end of the polygraph,
01:07:57
the examiner says, you killed Jennifer Moore. And he cracks and cops to the whole thing.
01:08:03
Holy shit. Which I think is so brilliant. Because usually in movies and stuff, the polygraph examiner is
01:08:08
just all dry and like, did you, did you not? And making little checks and doesn't care.
01:08:11
But he was like, looking at this evidence, here's the conclusion. And basically played a poker game of like, wow, you did it. And then he was just like,
01:08:20
you're right. I did it. I just think that's so interesting. Has he ever killed anyone or
01:08:23
any hit record? No. No priors. No priors. That's so interesting to me because I feel like the
01:08:28
people who crack and break down are almost like the people who insist and just fucking lie about it
01:08:37
are more sociopathic to me than the people who like feel their feel the remorse. And so they
01:08:44
break down and cry because they can't even fucking deal with it themselves. Right. And usually I would
01:08:48
say, I would, I would wager that those people are the ones that's the one-off crime of passion or
01:08:54
the moment or the, you know, whatever it is. Well, exactly. And that's what this was because, uh,
01:09:01
he shows them the rope burn on his hand, uh, where he, he strangled her with a piece of rope.
01:09:07
so he's just like he said the quote is I murdered her I raped her I strangled her and I bludgeoned her
01:09:14
so then they know they know they have him it's not just like coincidental or that he's been manipulated
01:09:20
he was very specific and basically totally barfed it out what a piece of shit so then the cops go to his house
01:09:28
and they start talking to his wife who of course is freaking out the wife always
01:09:33
and then she tells the cops that they had recently gotten into into a fight because of the huge bills he was racking up on those 976 numbers
01:09:43
from the 80s do you remember is that like sex talk sex talk numbers that were now they're illegal
01:09:49
illegal they're like there there's all kinds of FCC regulations so they're not like it used to be
01:09:54
there's 976 commercials second it was past 10 o'clock at night that's all tv was yeah um and
01:10:01
when they look into it, he had huge bills and his were for a child porn. There's a phone sex.
01:10:09
How was there? Oh. I mean, he found, I don't know. That's all the line says. That seems like a fucking FBI setup right there.
01:10:16
I mean, yeah. I mean, I don't think this needs to be said, but I bet they weren't real children.
01:10:23
Sorry. Okay. But I do want to clarify. These would be actresses. Yeah. Phone actresses.
01:10:31
Anyway, so basically he tells the story. He's working outside of the church and Jennifer is cutting through from the creek
01:10:41
through the parking lot. And he sees her and he gets this idea in his head and so that he's going to like seduce her.
01:10:49
So he says, hey, do you want a Coke? Come in, it's hot outside or whatever. And lures her into the library, makes a move on her.
01:10:58
She freaks out, tries to run. he grabs her, rapes her, and as he said, strangles her and hits her in the head. All in the church
01:11:07
library. Oh, honey. Church. Let's just remember these things. That this is when people have any
01:11:14
kind of religious thing that they're... Sometimes let's be suspicious of that even on the outset.
01:11:19
Yeah. That a lot of people use religion to hide behind. Yeah. Humans are humans. And just because
01:11:24
you're of a specific group of humans doesn't mean that you're exempt from being a terrible person.
01:11:29
Exactly. Anyone can go to that place on Sunday and sit there in silence and act. Anyone can.
01:11:35
Yeah. And believe that they're right and they're a good person. It's not like you even are like,
01:11:41
I'm hiding this secret. I'm a bad person. You're just like, oh, I am exempted from this because
01:11:45
because God. Yeah. And the Bible. So he got first degree murder, got a life sentence, no possibility of parole.
01:11:56
Thank God. Every ounce of this research, I was like, Yay, cops. Yay, judge. It rarely happens.
01:12:03
We can celebrate it. And that's it. That's the Jennifer Moore murder of Novato County.
01:12:11
That is exhausting and sad and horrible. Yeah. Is latchkey kids still a thing? I don't think so.
01:12:20
Well, I was talking to my sister and I told her this is the story that I'm doing.
01:12:24
And she goes, yeah, and that's why we never let kids go anywhere ever by themselves ever.
01:12:28
Right. like my our friend adrian has a daughter who's 18 and she was going to the dentist to get but she
01:12:35
was going to be sedated oh my goodness and adrian called my sister and goes can you go with her
01:12:40
yeah she's going to be sedated i've heard that about dentist office though like there was you
01:12:44
know one who would insist that the kid came alone back there and the mom was like well go
01:12:49
fuck yourself and wouldn't take the kid to the dentist yeah um because again doctors priests
01:12:56
whatever it is. We don't know. We don't know. It doesn't mean automatically that that's a good,
01:13:01
moral, upstanding person. Well, I'm trying to think if I had like a 12 year old son or daughter,
01:13:07
would I be comfortable with them going home from school after, after school and being alone? And
01:13:11
like, yeah, kind of. Would you be comfortable with them? Yeah. Not these days. Yeah. I mean,
01:13:18
not with, I'm surprised I'm being, I'm saying that and being so naive, which I don't know if it is,
01:13:24
but 12 is pretty, I guess once I see a 12 year old, they're like, oh no, nevermind.
01:13:29
I mean, it's weird because we did it from when we were like eight. Oh, totally. I think it's just that cultural thing
01:13:36
where like when everyone does it, it's not that big of a deal. Yeah. And also when you have siblings, it's better
01:13:42
because you have other people around when it's an only child, it's a little. Yeah, if you have people to escape the house with
01:13:47
when the murder comes in the front door. Or just someone, you guys have to be responsible
01:13:51
for each other. So you're just a little more careful. and a little more bitter like my sister was all of our lives
01:13:57
she had to constantly take me to the bathroom just so angry for 20 years my sister always had to pick my napkin up off the floor when I threw it on the ground when I was in a high chair fuck it she hates me to this day Like you were making her dance like a monkey for you Can mind how can you get it Lee go pick that up Hates me Thanks mom and dad
01:14:16
It's the thing. It sucks to be the older sister. That's for sure. That's true. Being the baby is the best.
01:14:22
Yeah. Well, that was... Yeah. Well, that's what we do. If you don't like it, we understand.
01:14:30
Yeah. Yeah. My favorite murder shirts dot com. we're like give us money now that we've ruined your day
01:14:39
now that you'll have nightmares i think the psychology of that actually holds up though
01:14:47
like thank you for ruining my day yeah at least we're doing something you know what i mean at
01:14:53
least it's something it makes me feel alive i feel like there's little bits and pieces of this
01:14:58
podcasts that make that'll either make people safer more aware um less grateful yeah and maybe
01:15:07
somewhere like grateful yeah maybe somewhere change something for the for good for the good
01:15:13
maybe someone will be on a jury someday and be like oh you can't let this guy totally did it
01:15:18
and he did do it maybe we'll win a peabody award that was the next thing i was gonna say
01:15:24
maybe we'll be crowned Queen Victoria, Queen Vicky. Well, I mean, you know, it's, it's, uh, yeah.
01:15:34
Finally, I'm Queen Vicky because of a podcast. When do we get to be Queen Vicky?
01:15:40
For once and another. It's always those British people that get to be the queen.
01:15:44
Why can't I? But we are, we're queen of fucking murder podcasts. Okay, so we're back. Any case updates?
01:15:58
No case updates on this one. Scott Williams is still in prison. He's 64. I guess my only case
01:16:06
update is that Carol Craft, who is my sister's friend who recommended this story to me, is a
01:16:13
longtime maybe even day one listener of My Favorite Murder and every other podcast that we have on this network And she calls my sister and tells her things she likes every week and says stuff And she is the ultimate stage mother but also just is a celebrator
01:16:31
And I love you, Carol Craft. If you hear this, you're the greatest. You are. And we all think so.
01:16:36
Can I have a personal Carol Craft corner in my life where she just tells me those things
01:16:40
and hypes me up a little? You guys need to hear what she's saying. And she does it like this where she has this huge smile on her face.
01:16:47
Like she's delighted and she's kind of like, I loved that one. And it's the best feeling.
01:16:52
Yeah. That's so lovely. Yeah, I'll try to pass it on next time now that we have context.
01:16:57
All right. So let's end this by talking about titles for episode 17 that we would now name the episode based on what we name them after now, which is silly little things we say during the episode.
01:17:08
I mean, I do. And I kind of say this at almost every time with these old pun, but I think this one is especially good. I think like, it just it's very satisfying to the eye when you see it as the title.
01:17:20
But podcasting isn't a visual entertainment. Not until we got in the game, baby. We're changing it all up.
01:17:27
That's right. And it's not a visual game. And it's also not a steal other people's titles game. But hey, we do it the way we want.
01:17:34
Sure do. Let's see. So Georgia was describing the podcast in the intro and she actually used the phrase,
01:17:40
the ride of your life. So that would be a really good title. That would be. Karen, talking about when we were talking about depression meals and being home
01:17:47
alone as a kid and making your own meals, the episode could be called Loaf of Toast,
01:17:52
which is so accurate. So delicious. Also my story, basically renaming the episode, The Beds on Fire,
01:17:59
because of the story of me lighting the bed on fire. Classic. Oh, and then Toasting the Tea is us talking
01:18:05
about how Ted Bundy looked like a guy in a lifted tea commercial. Yeah. And I also tried to smoke tea leaves.
01:18:11
I fashioned a tea leaf cigarette with paper towels as a kid. What a smooth smoke.
01:18:15
Pressing the tea. It was beautiful. Twelve-year-olds around the side of the pool house.
01:18:20
Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for listening to another episode of Rewind. Guys we do these every Wednesday Come back for the next bunch We just like kind of going through our philo facts of early episodes Do it with us It going to get crazier and crazier too Like
01:18:36
the bigger we realize things are getting, I feel like the, it's just this energy. The energy. And
01:18:42
also, yeah, the energy, they're going to be, I feel like less cringe. We're going to get better
01:18:47
at it. There's going to be, there's going to be more communication. It'll be great. Yeah. Until
01:18:53
then stay sexy and don't get murdered goodbye elvis do you want a cookie i'm bailey taylor and this is it girl this podcast is all about going deeper with the
01:19:08
women shaping culture right now yes we will talk about the style and the success but we are also
01:19:12
talking about the pressure the expectations and the real work behind it all as a woman in the
01:19:18
industry you're always underestimated so you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't
01:19:23
compromise who you are and your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like
01:19:27
a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
01:19:33
wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same
01:19:39
prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not
01:19:47
going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves. We always saying that. Trust your girlfriends.
01:19:55
Listen to the Girlfriends. Trust me, babe. On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:20:07
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that.
01:20:14
A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
01:20:21
I scream, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten. And a mystery.
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That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall
01:20:34
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.