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00:01:55
Hello! And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is our newest Wednesday episode where we go back and listen to the beginning of this show.
00:02:24
and we chat about everything that we said then and how it's different now and what we're doing
00:02:30
and why all of it it makes us sweaty but we're doing it for you guys not pleasant it's i kind
00:02:38
of love it i don't hate it i i love it it's hard it's important i'm glad we're doing it it's you
00:02:45
know what it is it's like if somebody recorded you if you chose to record yourself on a phone
00:02:51
a long phone call where you said a lot of stuff that you really felt and meant. And then someone released that on the internet and people were like,
00:02:58
actually, you're wrong to think this or feel this. That's an approximation of what it's like to look back.
00:03:04
The older I get, the more I realize that young people's thoughts and emotions and feelings
00:03:08
are so much stronger and more like adamant than they are when you're older. And usually they're wrong too.
00:03:13
So that's what we're doing today. And we're not that young. No, I mean, we were.
00:03:19
I was 36. Yeah, I think I just turned 36 in this fucking episode. Oh my God. Today we're revisiting
00:03:27
episode 20 from Thursday, June 9th, the day after my birthday, 2016. We called it 2020.
00:03:34
2020. That's easy. Classic. That was an easy one. So now it's time to get in the spirit of giving, grab a friend,
00:03:41
listen along. It's time to all become day one listeners. All right, let's listen to the intro of episode 20.
00:03:49
Test, test, test, test. Podcast, post, podcast, podcast. Third chance fast. Podcast, podcast, podcast.
00:03:59
There you go. Hi, this is my favorite murder. That scared this shit out of me. What did?
00:04:06
Hi, this is. Hey. This is my favorite murder. Starring Georgia. Let's start. Karen Kilgariff, a.k.a.
00:04:14
Killhard. Killhard. One of the lamest things we've done so far. Give ourselves a nickname.
00:04:20
Did you see someone in the Facebook group made a photo of the Die Hard poster and put your face on one guy and my face on another guy?
00:04:30
I did see that. It's turning into like a ego navel gazing kind of like. Did you see the picture where we the thing we talked about about ourselves got made into a thing about ourselves?
00:04:45
I know, but people like it. They like to play along with us. We wouldn't talk about it if they weren't doing it.
00:04:51
It's fun times. And there's, and it's just, there's just thousands of them. It's the best.
00:04:57
We're fueled by their, is it projected narcissism onto us? No, that's our narcissism.
00:05:05
Okay. Let's talk about how last week we talked about judges. And their misogyny, built in misogyny and sexism.
00:05:15
Right. that I think at one point I actually said it's not happening as much these days.
00:05:20
Right. And I think we conjured, speaking of narcissism, I think we conjured. I think we're the center of the universe.
00:05:26
I think we're the center of the universe about this new fucking huge controversial thing
00:05:31
about this dick like Brock Turner who like, he got convicted of three counts of aggravated sexual assault.
00:05:40
I'm not even going to say like clearly he was guilty. He is guilty. He is guilty.
00:05:44
He was unanimously voted guilty by a jury of his peers. And yet. And yet the old judge said hey let not fuck up his great swimming career Right And and said six months in county And then his dad had the nerve to say like oh it was 20 minutes of his life is he gonna get you know what his dad said so well
00:06:05
the brilliant thing and everyone's seen this like we're basically recapping what's been happening
00:06:09
on social media but the victim of this stood up in court and read this letter to him that is one
00:06:17
of not not just moving and amazing as a first person account at the clarity in it yeah and the
00:06:23
I'll let you know what's actually happening. And we're not just going to hear from these lawyers.
00:06:28
I'll fucking tell you myself. Right. And it's not just like how much you hurt me.
00:06:31
It's like, here are the repercussions of your actions and decisions. Whether or not you admit to them, we all know you did because there's the proof.
00:06:39
You can pretend you didn't do it like a fucking psycho all you want. It's foregone conclusion.
00:06:44
Well, he's not even pretending he didn't do it. He's saying that it wasn't what people thought it was.
00:06:48
Right. And he probably believes that. Well, he needs to believe it because when the wall finally comes down that he's like, I'm a rapist.
00:06:55
Well, then what happens then? And I'm sure everything in his life has been built around you get whatever you want, little baby Brock.
00:07:01
Yeah. And then some of his friends, there's a band called, what's it called? Good English.
00:07:08
Let's not even talk about it. Well, the thing is, I just don't see a time in my life where I would defend a friend of mine.
00:07:14
And I'm thinking of multiple friends who are good people would say, no, he, it wasn't rape.
00:07:22
Right. I wouldn't ever say that. I would say. Especially as a woman. Yeah. And that girl is, the girl in the band is a woman.
00:07:28
I would say, I'm really surprised. We would have never thought that this guy was capable of that, but I would never say that it's not true.
00:07:35
And she's full of shit. Especially after a jury unanimously voted him guilty of rape.
00:07:42
You can see the evidence. So we were just going to look it up to talk about it. And I found this article in The Cut that the judge, this piece of shit judge, Aaron Persky,
00:07:53
Persky? Persky, who's like thankfully getting a lot of shit and will probably be disbarred.
00:07:59
There's an article published. Tracy Kaplan writes that this isn't the first controversial sexual assault case the judge has presided over.
00:08:06
So here's the fucking story. in 2007 a 17 year old girl alleged that she was gang raped by at least nine members of the de
00:08:14
anza college basketball team at a house party while she was severely intoxicated three soccer
00:08:20
players discovered the rape in progress broke it up thank fucking god for some people and they
00:08:25
they said they discovered her unconscious and covered in vomit and call and called it clearly
00:08:30
non-consensual. District Attorney Dolores Carr ultimately decided not to move forward with the
00:08:38
case, which was met with criticism. In 2011, the case was brought to civil trial and the victim
00:08:44
sued for $7.5 million in damages. The judge, Persky, presided. He ruled before lunch that
00:08:50
NOF can show the jury seven photos of the women, whom the court is calling Jane Doe,
00:08:56
partying about a year or so after the alleged gang rape. The show she was partying afterwards and they could show photos.
00:09:03
And the photo she was scantily clad. She was scantily clad. I'm sorry. So what? Yeah.
00:09:11
So what? They said that the photos are a direct contradiction quote of the plaintiff claims that she is
00:09:17
socially isolated and socially reticent. But that doesn't. And especially, not especially, but photos post-rape.
00:09:30
Right. She's fucking, it doesn't matter what she does. She could be spiraling out of control.
00:09:36
She could be doing anything. Who the fuck knows? Or she could be a slut. It doesn't fucking matter.
00:09:39
It doesn't matter. And here's the other thing. Because we were talking about this at work today.
00:09:45
The bottom line is this. You know in your gut, you know what feels right and you know what feels wrong.
00:09:51
and if you are so narcissistic and selfish that you're going to take what you want no matter
00:09:56
either you don't have any feeling toward how you affect other people or you don't care
00:10:01
but ultimately that's your truth that you have to live in and sit in and if you say have to be on drugs or drunk
00:10:09
so that you have to ignore those whatever but at the end of the day you cannot parse out and argue things like this
00:10:16
when what we're talking about is basic human decency And I know that for a lot of people, I think there's a lot of gray area with rape that people get that people have a hard time dealing with.
00:10:26
But so even if this chick had ever fucked any of these nine girl, nine guys, it's they still it's still rape if she's intoxicated and can't give consent.
00:10:36
Like it's such a it's it's to that extreme. But even if she fucked these guys. Well, yeah, because if she had fucked them, that would have been her choice.
00:10:44
Right. That's what the, in that letter, one of my favorite parts of the, of Brock Turner's victim, she said, how can I be promiscuous if I did not choose to do it?
00:10:53
Right. If I wasn't even awake, how is that promiscuous? Yeah. That's, I'm unconscious.
00:10:58
Yeah. And that's the, that's the part that people want to argue. They want, they want to deflect away from the truth of the actual action, which is you took a person who was not there and fucked their body.
00:11:10
Right. That's disgusting. You have a problem. that girl doesn't have a problem except for the fact that you decided to do that to her i mean
00:11:16
it's just so it's like i think about people i've dated and been with and the none of them would
00:11:22
want to fuck an unconscious body no that means there's something wrong with you there's that's
00:11:27
predatory sociopathic and i don't care how drunk you i get drunk and i i do stupid things but
00:11:34
they're not out of character you know what i mean yeah well no a lot of people do there's a whole
00:11:40
aspect to this that I think they can't talk about, which is the way she tells that story.
00:11:45
She is blackout. She, she goes from dancing and feeling kind of drunk to being, to waking up
00:11:50
behind a dumpster I think there a roofie element that they can talk about That a theory that I have That maybe the the the uh the defendant kind of got that thrown out or something Well that they couldn prove it or it had already gone through her body so that they can include it
00:12:05
That would be prejudicial. Right. So they can't. And she's probably not even going to go there because it's like,
00:12:10
at the end of the day, it doesn't matter. Because even if I drink 11 beers in a row,
00:12:15
that doesn't mean I want you to rape me. Don't be a fucking lunatic. and it's not and also you the if the woman is saying that that is her truth it's not up to you
00:12:29
it's not your final choice totally random guy totally or rapist guy or to defend that that's
00:12:34
not her truth anymore you can't you don't do that just fuck off not you georgia not it makes me so
00:12:41
mad because it's just so it's it's when people try to parse out things like this of like is she's
00:12:47
half responsible if she was drunk right fuck you yeah these are i mean there was a girl that did an
00:12:51
amazing tweet today that said these people who are trying to blame this victim's rape on her
00:12:57
drunkenness are the same ones that threw temper tantrums when you two's album was downloaded
00:13:03
without their consent on their computer it's the same it's that thing of like how dare you
00:13:08
with this happen to you you would never be saying i saw a meme that said well she was drunk what
00:13:14
did you expect what did she expect and the answer was a fucking hangover yeah you didn't expect to
00:13:19
get raped you expected a hangover yeah that the idea that that's that should be part of the equation
00:13:25
and too bad for you yeah is insanity that's why they that's why we talk about and the people who
00:13:30
like that fucking judge was a uh lacrosse player at he was a lacrosse player at stanford what are
00:13:38
you gonna do with swimming how honest do you think why what about this girl well this that's
00:13:44
That's just like, that's boys club bullshit. That's what that is. Swimming. It's going to ruin.
00:13:49
It's like saying someone's life is more important than another. Totally. I mean, this goes back to everything we talk about.
00:13:53
So it's just, it's another frustration. But here's what I will say. I really do love, if you get down into the,
00:14:00
if you read a comment section, you're always going to be disappointed in humanity.
00:14:04
But Ashley Bamfield, I think her name is, the CNN anchor, she had a whole show. Did you see that?
00:14:09
She read the letter on her show. It took 40 minutes. and people were tweeting about it the whole time.
00:14:16
And it was all these people that were like journalists, it was all these, you know,
00:14:19
those blue dot people on Twitter that were like, this is incredible. This is unbelievable television journalism.
00:14:25
There were people that worked on the show that were saying it is uncomfortably silent
00:14:29
in this studio right now. Everyone was just like, because that letter, that's the other thing I was going to say.
00:14:34
Not only is it an amazing, clear, well-spoken, like here's actually my side, if you want to hear it.
00:14:41
It's brilliantly written. It's incredibly written. And I love the fact that she was like, it's not just something you read and you need to see the emotional, the person reading it, the face. And even if it's not the real one of what happened, hearing the inflections and hearing a woman read that I think is really important too.
00:14:58
For sure. Yeah. So I think that at the end of the day, when it, when everything kind of like the dust settles, it's going to be an incredibly important piece of action that a woman took for herself.
00:15:15
I agree. That is, that's precedent setting. It's amazing. Well, I mean, we were also talking last week about victim statement and victim impact statements, including the family, you know, finally being able to read their impact statement to the murder of their child and how and forgiving them and how insane that must feel.
00:15:36
Did you see that someone's dad jumped across the table and during his victim statement to the serial killer and fucking attacked him and had to be like restrained?
00:15:45
At Grim Sleeper? No. some other one yeah um doesn't surprise me i mean good for him i hope the cops like waited a
00:15:52
beat before they grabbed him is that terrible i mean how do you control you know no it's is yeah
00:16:00
yeah heavy heavy this duty heavy duty um but still i don't know i like it i like it you guys
00:16:12
be witnesses. And also, you know what? Watch your fucking drink. If you're going to drink,
00:16:19
you have to have one friend who's a little bit smarter and more down to earth than you,
00:16:24
for sure. I'm speaking as a 20-year-old Karen Kilgariff who never paid attention to anything.
00:16:31
But also, keep your hand over your drink. Drink out of bottles. Don't make it easy for people.
00:16:37
I mean, like, it's never your fault. But at the same time, just be please be careful it's a lot it's fucking ton this is a lot this is a heavy one this is and
00:16:49
also we're telling people what to do who are probably all our age they're like at home looking
00:16:54
at their baby like you guys move it along we got this part covered move it along to the murder part
00:17:00
that's what they're hoping for yeah we hear you we get it we're back i do think it's interesting with i wish i could go back and tell karen and georgia in 2016
00:17:14
that chanel miller really wins this fight in my opinion yeah writes a beautiful book
00:17:24
gets to speak for herself really galvanizes a lot of young women who know how she feels and have
00:17:32
been through what she's been through or similar or can relate in some way. Just I think that
00:17:38
separate from the rest of the nastiness is like, that's a person who really took that situation
00:17:47
and like made it her own Yeah Yeah I think it really motivated people to think in a different way and maybe awaken people understanding of you know what happens in these cases and you know open some people up to an empathy they didn have or an understanding
00:18:10
they didn't have before. Right. Like the, just knowing that, that a judge would be that concerned
00:18:17
for the perpetrator of this horrible rape. Right. It just like, and that judge had a history of doing that.
00:18:25
And these kinds of things where it's like, you have to talk about it and you have to make noise about it
00:18:32
so that it can change. And now, of course, in 2024, it's like, it seems preposterous and horrifying.
00:18:39
And, you know, people are so good at being kind of like telling these stories and trying to make change.
00:18:46
I think that changed the course of a lot of people's lives and a lot of the way people think.
00:18:51
Yeah. And understand sexual assault and rape. And that is just an incredible feat.
00:18:57
Yeah. All right. Well, let's get into Karen's story where she tells us just a classic horrible one.
00:19:05
The one and only Night Stalker. Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn. and I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
00:19:19
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary,
00:19:27
massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science, and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
00:19:35
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat
00:19:39
and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections, And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent?
00:19:45
And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
00:19:55
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
00:20:01
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.
00:20:06
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club
00:20:11
on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile,
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with a message for everyone paying big wireless way too much. Please, for the love of everything good in this world, stop.
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00:21:19
All right. So, Karen? Well, today, hi, Georgia. It's the part for the murder, skippers.
00:21:28
This today is June 6th. 7th. Today is June 7th, I said. My birthday's tomorrow. Oh, girl.
00:21:35
it's george's birthday tomorrow everybody you know her happy birthday on facebook thank you
00:21:38
you know i started cross-stitching you as a belated birthday present because i thought you
00:21:42
was your birthday while you're recording and i didn't even know it was my secret you're such a
00:21:46
dick uh i started stitching you cross-stitching you stay sexy don't get murdered but i realized
00:21:52
halfway through i got stay sexy and i realized i'm a terrible cross-stitcher now i want it even more
00:22:00
it looks like shit and i showed it to vince and i'm like does this look terrible because you know
00:22:03
you can be really self-critical and he's like i just think you need a little more practice like
00:22:07
you very sweetly said that looks terrible i want it so bad i'll show it to you it looks insane
00:22:14
put it on a pillow okay i i stitched it while i watched a murder show oh now i have to have it
00:22:19
it's like a child's christmas art project it's literally like a child's art project love it um
00:22:26
So because it's June 7th, it's a special holiday. Three years ago on this day, the Night Stalker, Richard Ramirez, died in prison.
00:22:37
Oh, shit. Was it only three years ago? 2013. God, it seems like, yeah. June 7th, 2013, which is three years ago, right?
00:22:46
Wow. Yeah. The math is right. He died. His liver basically shut down. He had a couple bad things going on.
00:22:53
He had like blood cancer and something else. But before he died, he turned bright green.
00:22:58
They said like a highlighter pen. Oh my God. Like he looked crazy. What is that?
00:23:02
Your liver just can't function? It's your liver. Because he was a crazy drug addict.
00:23:05
He was like, he was bad, bad drug. So yeah, he was basically just kind of shutting down altogether.
00:23:11
So I saw that in, there was an article about that in the news somewhere. So I was like, you know what?
00:23:17
That's the one, my friend Adrian, when we very first started this, I told the story about it and she was like, gotta be Night Stalker.
00:23:23
so I was like it's finally time to tell the story of Richard Ramirez the Night Stalker
00:23:28
not to be confused with the original Night Stalker Iran's the East Area Rapist slash the Golden State Killer
00:23:36
who could still be out there this is Richard Ramirez who basically in the summer
00:23:45
or I guess like early spring of 1985 started a insanity the berserker killing and molesting and raping spree
00:23:59
that started in South Africa. Southern California, went up to the San Francisco Barrier, came on back down, and then ends in my,
00:24:05
it's my favorite ending to one of these stories. It's the best. And I remember seeing it on the
00:24:11
news when they caught him. It was, the people of Boyle Heights rose up, girl. Oh, shit.
00:24:15
Yeah. So I'll just try to do this encapsulate. So he was born in 1960 in El Paso, Texas,
00:24:26
the youngest of seven children um in the basically the barrio is what i don't is that a politically
00:24:33
correct way to say it i would if yes it's a bad part of town in el paso yeah his parents were his
00:24:40
his father was um a railway worker but he was illegal so i he probably didn't make great money
00:24:48
and so he also early on got hit in the head with a swing and got knocked out for a while
00:25:01
I think they said like an hour if your kid gets hit in the head send him back and then there was a thing I was looking at
00:25:07
and it was like Ted Bundy, the Green River Killer Richard Ramirez, John Wayne Gacy
00:25:14
Fred West who's that British lunatic who like killed raped all those girls killed his own children um get all had head
00:25:22
injuries as children dude so you know keep your eye out you know who else did karen kilgarrow
00:25:29
shut up uh-huh what happened my mom tripped over my high chair when i was like six months old i had
00:25:34
stitches in the front of my head smash um and then later on i don't think this is this was my own
00:25:42
private pain but during swimming lessons I tried to do a front forward somersault jump off the side
00:25:48
of the pool and just smacked my head holy super hard and I just nobody saw it and so I just held
00:25:55
the side of the pool and kind of like quietly cried to myself until I felt better and then
00:26:00
kept on swimming because swimming above all right when you're a kid totally you probably had a
00:26:04
concussion it probably did holy shit I probably did remember how we couldn't remember our
00:26:10
concussions one episode there's one of them there it is uh okay so here's the bad part
00:26:19
ricky being the youngest was kind of like he was basically a juvenile delinquent
00:26:24
just robbed a bunch of shit did stuff got sent to juvie um and his older cousin cousin uh-oh
00:26:31
his old older cousin mike came back from vietnam and he had been a green beret in vietnam and it's
00:26:40
as bad as you think, Mike, Ricky hung around with Mike and Mike was like, here's all the shit I did
00:26:48
to women in Vietnam. Here's what we did to the enemy. Here's this, here's that. Just filling his
00:26:53
head with all this terrible shit. Showed him pictures and mutilations and torture, horrible
00:27:02
like polaroid pictures and uh and mike was married um and the two of them would hang out uh
00:27:11
ricky and mike would hang out and smoke pot talk about satan worship um and mike's wife finally was
00:27:18
like i don't want you hanging out with him anymore and you guys just sit around or whatever
00:27:22
well mike went ahead and shot and killed his wife in front of richard ramirez how old was
00:27:27
Richard, that's fine. He was a teenager. I believe he was 15. I don't... Holy shit.
00:27:32
I don't have the exact age written down. He was a teenager. They say that the trauma from that
00:27:39
is basically fueled much of the rest of his life. I'm sure by that time, he was so desensitized to murder and torture
00:27:47
and that even without that happening, I feel like he would have been fucked. He was definitely already kind of a sad case.
00:27:56
and then that was like imagine that level of trauma just seeing someone shot they said that he had blood on him
00:28:03
that's how close he was so bad news he was also inspired by the hillside stranglers
00:28:10
it's weird to feel sympathy for him because if you don't hit your head and you don't have
00:28:17
a fucked up cousin named Mike could Richard Ramirez have just been a guy that then went on to live in El Paso and work at a mattress
00:28:26
store. Totally. Did he, because I don't know stuff like that is like, after what,
00:28:31
if you become, I mean, obviously we've talked about this a ton. It's, it's a mental disorder.
00:28:36
You can't just kill people. It's a psychopathy or whatever, but it, it's sad to think that he had to start his life like that.
00:28:43
It's, it's awful. Um, uh, right now, last podcast on the left is doing a hillside strangler series and it's
00:28:52
awesome. I love it. And the, uh, the lead detective on the Hillside Stranglers, so Richard Ramirez loved hearing about the Hillside Stranglers.
00:29:01
He ended up moving to LA after that happened and like kind of bumming around there.
00:29:05
So when the Hillside Stranglers cases, he had heard about them. I don't know if he was living in LA while it was happening or whatever,
00:29:12
but he was very inspired and he really liked that story. He got really fascinated by it.
00:29:17
And it turned out that a detective named Frank Salerno was the lead detective on the Hillside Stranglers case.
00:29:24
and then he also was the lead detective on the Night Stalker case and Frank Salerno said that the experience he had
00:29:31
going through the Hillside Strangler and all the mistakes that he made and they all made
00:29:35
and that he learned from is the reason that they were able to catch the Night Stalker
00:29:41
as quickly as they did. It didn't go on for years and years and years because he'd learned so much
00:29:47
from being on that other huge high profile case. So anyway, it basically starts February 25th 1985 a six year old Montebello girl is taken from a bus bench near school while waiting for her older sister She was carried away in a zippered garment bag sexually assaulted and dropped off in Silver Lake
00:30:08
What? So this is one of his earliest crimes. Holy shit. Then a month later, March 11th, a nine-year-old Monterey Park boy is kidnapped from his home at night, sexually assaulted, left in Elysian Park near Silver Lake.
00:30:24
Well, we're like five minutes from those places. That's right. And this is the nightmare sauce of someone comes into your house and takes a child.
00:30:35
It's beyond fucked up. Can we comment on how weird it is that he doesn't discriminate with sex?
00:30:41
Right. With people? And I mean, that's one of the things is they had a very hard time establishing an M.O. with him because it was all ages, all sexes, all races.
00:30:52
Like there was no pattern. There was no connection, so maybe they didn't put it all together as one person.
00:30:56
Right, exactly. March 17th, Dale Akazaki, 34, is killed, and her roommate, Maria Hernandez, is wounded in an attack in their Rosemead condominium.
00:31:09
And two miles from that apartment, Sialian Yu, 30, of Monterey Park, is pulled from her car near her home and shot.
00:31:20
She dies the next day. Jesus. I mean, you think that like in your car, you're good.
00:31:25
Yeah. Well, lock your goddamn door. Lock your fucking door. To quit showing off.
00:31:30
Sorry. It's victim blaming. March 20th, an Eagle Rock girl is kidnapped and sexually molested by a man who breaks
00:31:37
into her family's home at night again. So this is, he's getting the taste for, you know, he puts on all black and he goes fucking
00:31:43
sneaking around. And what they say is a lot of these, I mean, this was 1985, such an innocent time.
00:31:50
People left their doors ajar. At night. It was, yeah, bad news. So he was basically going around trying doors.
00:32:00
March 27th. Vincent Zazara, 64, is a retired investment counselor, and he's beaten to death, and his wife, Maxine, who is 44,
00:32:09
is stabbed to death by an attacker who enters their ranch-style Whittier home through an open door.
00:32:15
Oh, shit. God damn it. I always try to scroll on my computer by touching the thing,
00:32:20
and it zips me back up to the top. Okay, we'll edit that part out. And we're back in.
00:32:26
Open door. Their bodies are found by a business acquaintance. Actually, I got two different stories on this.
00:32:33
I got a business acquaintance. This is an LA Times article. But actually, there's another article that I read
00:32:39
that their son found them. No. I wonder what their relationship was like. He was 20 years older than him.
00:32:44
He was 20 years older. I bet he had money. They lived in Whittier. Whittier is like real pristine.
00:32:49
Tony. It's a bunch of white Christians kind of living out in the valley. That's where Nixon went to college.
00:32:53
I bet they were a fun couple. I bet they were fun times. But here's the gross part that we'll have to uncomfortably transition into.
00:33:01
He mutilated her body. She had a T-shape carved into her breast. And ready? No. This one's bad.
00:33:09
No. He gouged out her eyes and took them with him. No. Uh-huh. Boobies and eyes.
00:33:14
I mean, problems. What we're saying is problems. Leave the boobies and the eyes alone.
00:33:21
Please. Please. No matter what the devil tells you to do. He's joking. He was like being facetious and you took it seriously.
00:33:29
Fucking idiot. The devil's joking, you mean? Is that what you're saying? Uh-huh.
00:33:37
Remember that the devil has a very wry sense of humor. And so sometimes he's just being sarcastic.
00:33:42
He's basically George Burns. Just, okay, sorry, go on. The autopsy revealed that those mutilations were postmortem.
00:33:50
Oh, good. That's the good news. Thank God. I buried the lead on that one. I figured because I just couldn't handle it.
00:33:56
Yeah, it's too much. This was a house where he left footprints in the flower beds,
00:34:02
and the police photographed them and made a cast. And that was the only evidence that they had at the time.
00:34:08
And they found bullets at the scene, matched those to previous attacks, and that's when the police
00:34:15
started putting together they have a serial killer. That there's someone that's, you know,
00:34:19
going around doing some shit. Yeah, this one says that Vincent and Maxine's bodies
00:34:24
were discovered in their Whittier home by their son, Peter. I hate that because, like,
00:34:29
the thing that I was reading seemed very reliable and then I was starting to get,
00:34:33
the more you read because there's so much about the Night Stalker. There's conflicting reports.
00:34:38
Can you, oh, God, I just picture the eyeball-less mom. I mean, Like it's bad enough, but then...
00:34:44
That's Nightmare. Like, that's special horror movie. That's like the third scare in the horror movie
00:34:50
where it's like the worst one. Totally. Not having eyes is bad news. Totally, totally.
00:34:54
Okay. Mabel Bell on May 29th. So then, let's see, that was... So later that month, this was like two weeks later,
00:35:03
Mabel Bell, age 84. Oh, honey. And her invalid sister, Florence Lang, age 81. Ladies.
00:35:10
Are beaten in their Monrovia home. and they live in a house down a long, narrow, winding road
00:35:19
and they're found four days later by a gardener. Oh. And they weren't dead, but Mabel died.
00:35:28
They weren't dead four days later? Mm-mm. Oh, sorry, maybe Florence was dead, but Mabel was still alive.
00:35:33
No. But she only lived two more months. This is rough because he, this was why this guy was so, like, frightening.
00:35:40
He didn't give a fuck. I mean, he raped old women, he raped children. He was just, you know, he was on one.
00:35:47
It's crazy, like, yeah, right off the bat, just to be berserk. Yeah. June 27th Patty Elaine Higgins who was 32 had her throat slashed in her Arcadia home And also for people that don know the Los Angeles area all these areas are just low suburban outlying cities
00:36:09
They're not, like, close. It's not, like, these are all random little cities that are not, like, connected in any way.
00:36:16
Right. Which is so weird. It's just kind of all around the San Gabriel Valley. Right, which is surprising that they were able to connect them
00:36:21
because it sounds like it would be all different districts. Well, they kept finding this Avia shoe print in places.
00:36:26
That was one of the things. A what? It's Avia. You know that brand? Yeah, no. A-V-I-A.
00:36:33
Okay. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. It looks kind of Reebok-y. Yeah. The symbol is partial Reebok, but extra lines.
00:36:40
Okay. So are people freaking out at this point? Like, does everyone know about it?
00:36:44
Oh, yeah. We heard about it. Do you remember it? I was 15. Holy shit. Oh, dude. Okay, this was crazy because it was like he was on tour.
00:36:53
Like it was like a nightmare because you heard about it down in LA or whatever. And you're like,
00:36:57
Oh, those poor people. Yeah. Then he popped up to the Bay area. People were losing their shit.
00:37:03
It was crazy. Oh my God. It was like, it was basically kind of like watching a storm come where you're just like,
00:37:09
and it truly was that thing of like, it, we could be next. Yeah. It was nuts. Okay.
00:37:14
So, um, uh, it was only like four days later, two miles away from the Higgins home,
00:37:22
Mary Louise Cannon, who was 77, who had already fought off two bouts of cancer, was murdered.
00:37:29
Her throat was slashed. That was in Arcadia. July 7th, Joyce Nelson, who was 61, was beaten to death in Monterey Park.
00:37:38
And July 11th, Monterey Park has a neighborhood watch meeting and 600 people go to it because people are freaking out.
00:37:48
They're just like, but they, the police are like, we're sorry, we don't have a suspect.
00:37:54
So they have these tiny pieces of evidence, but no suspect at all. On July 20th, Chaynarong Kavanath, who is 32 years old, is slain in his Sun Valley home.
00:38:07
And his wife is beaten and raped. And their eight-year-old son is beaten. And they, he steals $30,000 in jewels and cash from the house.
00:38:17
Holy shit. What are you doing in Sun Valley? I know, right? Hiding your shit. Yeah.
00:38:22
You'd have to. But a witness sees the suspect flee in a maroon-colored Pontiac Grand Prix.
00:38:31
Yay. That has a damaged right front fender. Fuck yeah. So now they have at least, they have that.
00:38:37
So then on July 20th, Max Needing, who was 68, and his wife, Lila Ellen, who was 66,
00:38:45
were shot to death in Glendale. That's right. It's so close to here. August 6th, Christopher Peterson is 38.
00:38:53
His wife, Virginia, is 27. And they're both shot in the head in their Northridge home and survived.
00:39:00
Yay. Survived. It's just so wild and hopeful that you can survive a fucking head shooting.
00:39:07
I know. It happens in the show I survived all the time. Fuck. And it's people in a very normal voice being like,
00:39:15
I heard this loud noise and my head hurt really bad. You're just like, how are you telling me this story?
00:39:20
Sorry. It's like I make money off of I Survived. I'm really not. I'm not sponsored.
00:39:24
I swear to God. You should be. I actually should be. So on August 8th, my sister's birthday, Elias Abawath, 35, is shot to death in his Diamond Bar home, which is fancy.
00:39:39
Right? Isn't Diamond Bar where they have all the horses? Okay. I've never been there.
00:39:44
I've lived here my whole life, and I'm just in, like, Sun Valley. Oh, you know what it is? No Jews allowed in Diamond Bar. That's what it is.
00:39:51
Not surprised. Okay, so he's 35. That's so young. He's shot to death. His wife is beaten. His two children, ages three in three months, not harmed.
00:40:04
Oh, good. Thank God. so later in the day they say that they have linked that this attack
00:40:13
on the Aboaths is the final link that they are all the same suspect from all of these attacks
00:40:19
and this is the first public revelation that there's a serial killer loose in Southern California
00:40:24
that took that many bodies yeah and also because it was so random like Sun Valley
00:40:29
and Diamond Bar are two very different cities totally so August 10th reports of crimes made by citizens
00:40:38
to LAPD communications are up 15%. Everyone's on edge. They're freaking out. So people are calling in.
00:40:45
There's increased sales at gun shops, of course. Everyone's freaking out. I would be staying in a hotel forever.
00:40:53
Right. Indefinitely. So then the Board of Supervisors offers a $10,000 reward for information leading to the arrest
00:41:00
and conviction of the night. You're going to need more than that, bro. But you know what?
00:41:05
You know what? Up that shit. Let's get that money up there. So now they link back to the shooting of Cylon U in Monterey Park from March 17th.
00:41:19
They're like, it's this one too. The gun, the ballistics evidence that they have links that in.
00:41:27
then on August 17th a man named Peter Pan who was 66 was shot and killed in his bed
00:41:38
in his San Francisco home and his wife Barbara who's 64 is shot and beaten but she survives
00:41:45
was that the most insensitive thing I've ever said no we have to do it and their dog
00:41:53
was also the nanny that the part I love in Peter Pan where it like so the dog takes care of the yeah yeah and then he locks them out and they go missing right they all do drugs and fly off the
00:42:05
roof yeah good good job dad um so august 22nd uh they the people uh the cops in san francisco
00:42:16
announced that the slaying of peter pan and his wife is the night soccer and that's when the nor
00:42:21
Cal goes ape shit yeah I still remember I can't remember like I just remember watching it on the
00:42:28
news with my family we we watch so much news every night yeah news was a nightly occurrence yeah you
00:42:34
know how we all avoid it now no that's not what you did you watched it as a family and and went
00:42:39
through it but like I remember that like Dianne Feinstein was on they were making like official
00:42:43
announcements it was all breaking news it was like it was a big deal was like from six to seven and
00:42:48
And then there was going to be a 10 to 11 and that was it for news. It wasn't like how it is now.
00:42:52
Right. Yeah. That was, we had to watch it then. Like my parents would turn off, you know,
00:42:57
something we wanted to watch and they'd be like, no, no, no, it's time for the news.
00:43:00
Like entertainment tonight is what we'd want to watch. And they'd be like, it's time for the news.
00:43:04
Cause you wouldn't get it otherwise. Right after Jeopardy. Yeah, exactly. So, um,
00:43:10
uh, sorry, I lost my spot. They, oh, so they say that the evidence that they have,
00:43:18
that's linking it are the ballistics also messages that he scrawled on the walls and,
00:43:25
and a distinctive but undisclosed piece of evidence that the killer left behind in the homes of his victims.
00:43:33
But then Diane San Francisco at the time, San Francisco mayor, Diane Feinstein gets on the news offering a $10,000 reward for any
00:43:41
information for the capture of the night stalker. unfortunately she gives away that that distinctive piece of proof they have is his shoe print and so
00:43:50
that night Richard Ramirez walks onto the Golden Gate Bridge and throws his shoes over yeah so no
00:43:57
longer is that going to be a piece of evidence that helps anything yeah holy shit I mean everyone
00:44:04
who had those shoes did that though just like 49 guys on the Golden Gate Bridge they're like oh
00:44:10
49 peeping toms that are like, why did I ever buy a Villas? All right. So August 25th, a man named Bill Carnes, who was 27,
00:44:22
is critically injured by being shot in the head while sleeping in his Mission VAO home.
00:44:28
So now the 9th stalker is back down. He's in Orange County now. Yeah. Is that where Mission VAO is?
00:44:34
Yeah, Mission VAO is Orange County. And his 29-year-old fiancée, I believe her name was Inez.
00:44:43
My saved document and my original document are both on here. And some has some information and some has other.
00:44:51
Here we go. Fuck. So Bill Karnes' fiancée, Inez, is raped. but as the Night Stalker
00:45:04
runs out of the house and gets into the stolen car that he has stolen from San Francisco
00:45:08
down to back down to Orange County she sees him leave in a 1976 orange Toyota station wagon
00:45:18
why are you getting an orange car Night Stalker not smart yeah how about black brown
00:45:24
go for your brown because it's the 80s probably and you'd blend in right brown or like
00:45:30
a kind of a shimmery blue. Totally. Was every single car on the road. Yeah. So she sees that
00:45:38
as she like crawled up to the window and saw that and so was able to tell the police
00:45:42
that that's the car that the guy had. Good girl. So now Los Angeles City Council
00:45:49
is offering a $25,000 reward. Yeah, you are. And then Governor Duke Majin announces the state
00:45:55
is going to add $10,000 onto that. Yeah, that's more like it. So when they find the stolen Toyota
00:46:01
they pick up there's a new laser examining device that they use and they pick up
00:46:06
a single fingerprint on the rear view mirror. He took off his gloves readjusted that mirror
00:46:12
and they found one fingerprint in the whole car. Checking to see if he had anything
00:46:15
in his teeth and he fucking and he you know what he had in his teeth? What? The most rotten teeth
00:46:19
of all time. Really? Yeah. His mouth was filled with them. Oh you've never seen his teeth?
00:46:24
No. He never had any dental work done his entire life and all he ever ate was candy and drank coke.
00:46:30
The first time he ever went to the dentist was when he was in jail. Oh, just trash mouth.
00:46:34
Crazy. The mouth on this guy is nutso. It's horrifying. And a lot of his suspects,
00:46:41
the thing all the women who were attacked, who lived, said, was the worst breath I've ever smelled.
00:46:49
What a weird, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Insults to injury. I mean, just make it as upsetting
00:46:56
as it possibly can be. So, they use that fingerprint and they find in a computer system that was very new.
00:47:07
It had like just gone online. That there was a guy who had like very, I think misdemeanors, like burglary shit named Richard Ramirez.
00:47:20
So, they got their guy. So, they put out an all points bulletin for the arrest of Richard Ramirez.
00:47:26
and they have the, have you ever seen the picture that the police sketch artist drew of him?
00:47:35
Yes, it looks just like him. Yes, but it's also one of the scariest things ever.
00:47:39
I'm looking it up right now, go on. Yeah. So they put out, there's the picture that the cop drew,
00:47:47
but then they have a mugshot of him in real life. And that goes on the front page of all the papers
00:47:51
in Los Angeles. So meanwhile, Ramirez has no idea that that's happened because He was in Phoenix visiting his brother.
00:48:02
And so the cops stake out the bus station because they think he's going to try to leave town
00:48:07
now that his picture went up. He's already gone. Stake out the bus station. He was already gone.
00:48:11
He was coming back. He passed the cops in the bus station. No. And just kept it cool
00:48:17
and walked out of the bus station downtown, walked into Boyle Heights, went over to a liquor store,
00:48:23
walked up. There was a newspaper stand thing right on the outside. he picks up the newspaper and sees the picture of himself on the front of the newspaper inside the
00:48:34
store woman looks and starts yelling el matin el matin which in spanish i'm giving that a french
00:48:40
accent because i took french in high school in spanish i guess that means the bully uh and he
00:48:47
hears that and he starts running um so this this i love so much okay he starts running so he
00:48:57
goes over to he runs and he tries to carjack a woman. So he runs up, he punches her in the stomach and he
00:49:05
tries to pull her out of the car. The husband of this woman hears this going on,
00:49:12
grabs a pipe, runs out. The guy, Richard Ramirez is in the car. He hits him over the head. And so
00:49:20
Ramirez runs out of that car and starts running. A man named Jose Bergeron, who was the
00:49:25
neighbor had run over but he was an older man at the time now he's in his 80s at the time he was in
00:49:30
his 50s and he ran over to defend to defend her and richard ramirez had said don't get any closer
00:49:37
or i'll shoot you but the guy says i didn't see a gun so i went so he basically opened the car door
00:49:44
and then the husband came out and hit him in the head he starts running jose bergeon berg won however
00:49:51
you say it calls for his two sons oh yeah and says run after him so these two boys start running
00:49:56
they ran for two miles yes they chase him down yes as they start running everyone in the
00:50:03
neighborhood sees it and starts running too fuck can you fucking imagine there's 200 people running
00:50:10
up the street how did i never know this it was i think i remember seeing this now i could have seen
00:50:15
a reenactment in in a sure um in in i'm sure i saw a reenactment but i feel like i remember seeing
00:50:22
the helicopter shot on the news of all the people in the street in boyle heights because basically
00:50:28
this whole fucking neighborhood was like we got the fucking night stalker yeah they these two boys
00:50:34
um it was jamie and i can't remember the other brother's name um bergwan b-u-r-g-o-i-n
00:50:43
along with like four or five other dudes. They pin him to the ground. They have him on the curb
00:50:50
and everyone just starts beating the shit out of him. They had called the cops. I think Jose called the cops when they started running.
00:50:58
So the cops got there mid beat down so that Richard Ramirez was going, it's me, it's me.
00:51:05
And the cops saved him from this crowd of people. Holy shit. It's my favorite thing.
00:51:12
That's incredible. in the world. Isn't that awesome? I think he tried to, at one point he ran through a backyard.
00:51:19
They have a picture of a guy who tried to hit him with, he was pruning the tree in his yard
00:51:24
and the guy tried to like stab him with these pruning shears, these huge pruning shears,
00:51:29
but he missed. And so they had all these, it's the best, you can look at it on the line.
00:51:34
There's pictures of all these people who are from Boyle Heights who got these awards.
00:51:39
They get awards from the city. They get awards from the cops. Fuck yeah. it's awesome.
00:51:43
And it's totally just people like, nope, not in our fucking neighborhood. He thought he could go and just blend in
00:51:49
and just be like, oh, whatever. That's my favorite. So, and when they brought him down
00:51:55
to their local precinct, 500 people were outside chanting. Like they wanted to kill him.
00:52:02
They wanted him strung up. Just like send him out. Yeah. I mean, this is a man who like,
00:52:06
this story after story, it only got scarier. And he became like, he was like this phantom.
00:52:12
where no one could figure out who he was, where he was, and he was everywhere. You know, he was just driving around changing city.
00:52:20
My parents did a really good job of keeping the shit from me because I don't fucking remember any of this.
00:52:23
You don't? No. How old were you, though? Was it 87? 85. I was five. And a little baby Georgia.
00:52:30
And Mission Viejo, that's like 15 minutes, 10 minutes from Irvine where I grew up.
00:52:36
Marty, good job. Good job, Marty. Well done. Janet. They were going through their divorce, so I was busy.
00:52:41
Oh, that's good. You probably were getting a lot of extra toys at the time. I was just going to see this really quick.
00:52:50
Oh, one of the cops said, it seemed like alert citizens were reporting the suspect every step of the way.
00:52:58
So basically, as they ran up the street, every house was calling the cops. Can you imagine what it would have been like if they had,
00:53:02
like now, if they had fucking cell phones? I bet you it would be half as many people chasing him
00:53:07
and the other half would be filming him. Filming it, yeah. We'd be able to post this and just be like, here's what happened.
00:53:13
You guys put your phone away and participate. So at the end of this, so the cops come in and there is a super, if you want to look it up, very scary picture of him in the cop car because his whole head is wrapped.
00:53:25
So instead of having like his rock star hair or whatever, he has, he looks like a gray alien.
00:53:30
He is so scary looking in the backseat. He had pretty serious head injuries. They were beating the shit out of him.
00:53:37
Good, yeah. Yeah. He actually says I'm lucky the cops caught me Because these people were going to kill him
00:53:44
Yeah At the end The last victim that was confirmed Of the Night Stalker Was nine-year-old Mi Lung
00:53:52
Whose body was found in a San Francisco hotel basement In 1984 She wasn linked to him until 2009 Holy shit When they found they got DNA Oh honey Yeah
00:54:05
Poor baby. It's horrible. Yeah. So he had actually done that while he was in the city, but they didn't know.
00:54:10
Yeah. I wonder how many other, like, go ahead. Sorry. Well, he was arrested on August 31st, 1985, but he didn't, the jury selection didn't begin
00:54:21
until July of 1988. Wow. Because they did so many delays and continuances and all that shit.
00:54:28
He did everything he could to make sure that they didn't start this thing on time.
00:54:33
Okay. They basically finally convicted him of 14 homicides and all the other felonies
00:54:44
and attacks on September 20th, 1989. It was four years after his arrest. and during the trial there was a juror named phyllis singletary who didn't show up one day
00:54:55
and she had been shot in her home and then all the jurors were freaking out that he had had
00:55:01
he was having the jurors killed she it was a domestic um violence thing and her uh i think
00:55:07
boyfriend murdered her son of a bitch yeah so that was just to just to add to the freak out
00:55:14
oh are you what if you were on that jury oh could you imagine no scary enough because they said
00:55:19
all the jurors said the stuff that they saw the evidence that they saw and the pictures
00:55:24
they had to look at none of them were sleeping. And I bet the man himself he's such a creep
00:55:28
having to sit like can you imagine from where you and I are sitting right now that that's a fucking
00:55:32
Night Stalker? And he was doing things I mean there's tons of famous pictures he was doing things
00:55:36
like putting his hand up and he had a pentagram on his hand which in the 80s people
00:55:40
that was the whole satanic panic time where it was like this guy is Satan people freaked out
00:55:46
about that shit it was very scary. He also, they found out about a plot that Ramirez had to somehow sneak a gun into the courtroom and kill the prosecutor.
00:55:57
So then they put in, so, sorry, eventually he was sentenced to death for 13 murders, five attempted murders, 11 sexual assaults, and 14 burglaries.
00:56:09
and when they at the end of the trial when he was convicted he said no big deal death always comes
00:56:18
with the territory I'll see you in Disneyland and when they sentenced him he said
00:56:24
he grinned when they said you know it was like I think it's something like 14 death sentences
00:56:30
he said his official statement was you maggots make me sick hypocrites one and all
00:56:35
we're all expendable for our cause And no one knows that better than those who kill for policy, clandestinely or openly, as do the governments of the world, which kill in the name of God and country and for whatever else they deem appropriate.
00:56:51
You don't understand me. You are not expected to. You are not capable of it. I am beyond your experience.
00:56:59
I am beyond good and evil. That's pretty fucking poetic. Like for someone who's insane and has a head injury and isn't probably educated, that's fucking pretty powerful.
00:57:12
It's powerful, but it also being somebody who is in the 12-step program, I would like to mention that addicts have a real sense of grandiosity about themselves.
00:57:22
And so this is a person who is pretending that because he is a psychotic, uncontrollable murderer, that somehow makes him magical and special.
00:57:33
when in fact it just makes him an animal. Yeah. Because that's really what he was.
00:57:37
I know. And you're right. And I think people probably, it wasn't just him who was thinking of him as grandiose.
00:57:43
It was everyone because it was such a, you know, it was so terrifying. And he was able single-handedly to put this,
00:57:49
put this whole city into a panic. The whole state. He believed it. And I think probably everyone else did too.
00:57:56
I mean, and he looked the part, everything. It was, it was kind of, it was on the level of Ted Bundy
00:58:02
in how he looked evil, but then he was also sexy. There was a rock star element.
00:58:08
So then it kicked up all that stuff of like women being like, I'm in love with him.
00:58:11
He actually married a woman while he was in jail who is not a rock star, doesn't look like a rock star type of gal herself.
00:58:21
It's very fascinating. And she was also a virgin, which I kind of am fascinated by.
00:58:26
I feel like the fact that he was able to get, it's like the same thing with Ted Bundy
00:58:29
where it's like, how can you be so prolific? How can you kill so many people in such a short time and get away with it?
00:58:38
It's almost like you, you are, you are on another level. He, he was on another, I think another level in that way of you can't track chaos.
00:58:48
Yeah. And he really was, he wasn't sticking into a neighborhood. He wasn't, there was no,
00:58:54
they couldn't get a hold on him because he would just switch the city. Right. And he also switched his,
00:59:00
the type there was, they couldn't follow any of it. You know, it was just like, Oh,
00:59:05
there's just another body and another body and another. And the same way Ted Bundy, because of his charm, they couldn't figure him out.
00:59:12
Maybe those were those two things that he was switching cities and that this guy was charming
00:59:16
are what were able to make those people get away with so much. Right. Well, and also I think the people's sense of, Oh, who would and wouldn't do things
00:59:25
was very different back then. It was very uneducated. Yeah. but in I'm still reading
00:59:31
that Ted Bundy book right now fucking Ann Rule heard the news that the man was named Ted
00:59:39
at the at the those lake murders where the two women disappeared in one day that it was a man
00:59:46
named Ted and that he had a gold metallic bug Volkswagen bug and she knew that his name was Ted and he had a gold metallic bug and she told people but she still didn think it was him She still didn think it was him No No She was like there no way it could be him But she did tell a cop that she knew because she worked with them
01:00:07
And she was like, just so you know, I'll give you this name, but it can't be. Did they follow up on him?
01:00:13
Like a little bit, but he had then moved to Colorado. I think by the time those two were being like really looked into.
01:00:20
Okay. So anyway, that's the night stalker. I'm sure there's so much more online about him because, you know, like.
01:00:29
Yeah, but there's always going to be more. It's amazing. When it's when it's a classic like him.
01:00:34
Well, happy birthday to his death. Happy, happy death day, Rich. Happy death day, you piece of shit.
01:00:40
You total lunatic. I mean, this story ends on such an incredible note. again fucking shout out to Boyle Heights and the people of Boyle Heights like Boyle Heights
01:00:56
unbelievable sorry I got so excited because I just was like if you watch the Netflix documentary
01:01:03
Night Stalker the hunt for a serial killer you have to watch it because the people who chased
01:01:08
him down are in that documentary they get to tell the story themselves and it is so great it's so
01:01:15
satisfying the individuals who are on camera some of them are survivors and victims which is
01:01:23
incredible listening to them and they're seeing that like a person being able to tell that story
01:01:29
with like strength and spirit and it's it's an amazing piece of work in my opinion yeah but the
01:01:37
people who are like we saw him and we heard that that's who it was and we knew we had to get him
01:01:42
Like, it's just, it's the beauty of like humanity where it's like, you're not allowed to hurt people like this and we're going to do something about it.
01:01:50
We're not minding our own business. This is, you can't, we can't do this and you can't come into our neighborhood.
01:01:55
Speaking of neighborhoods, when I was like rereading some of the details of this, I really, I like looked it up because I was like, oh, and it turns out that Richard Ramirez, the Night Stalker and the Hillside Stranglers both attacked people like in my immediate neighborhood that I now live in.
01:02:10
Yeah. So that's, we didn't catch him. It was Boyle Heights. Yeah, Boyle Heights got him.
01:02:16
Yeah. Also, I think, though, the way Los Angeles is, I think in any neighborhood, you could
01:02:22
probably say that because there's been so many insane serial killers down here. If I was like, I live on this block in Duluth and there's two people, like that would be
01:02:32
wild. But LA, no, no, that's not that. LA is, we've had some bad ones. Oh, sure.
01:02:38
We sure have. It's a great place to go if you're a bad person. So there's no major updates in this case, obviously, except for that I love to brag that my cousin Martin was a cop who picked up one of the fingerprints that eventually led to his identification in San Francisco.
01:02:54
I'm very proud. I'm also very angry that he waited until, like, he said it at Thanksgiving as if it was no big deal one year, where I was like, you've had this information since it happened.
01:03:06
That's insane. Like, make a T-shirt. You should be wearing that T-shirt that says that all the time.
01:03:11
Come on. You stopped that guy. You helped stop him. But anyway, the only update is just watch that Netflix documentary because it's so good.
01:03:20
And it just gives you all the color and the first-hand accounts that you need to hear.
01:03:27
And that cop, Gil, I can't remember his last name, but he worked both of those cases, Hillside Strangler and The Night Stalker.
01:03:35
He's in there a lot. Yeah. Okay, so now let's listen to George's story about the Bain family murders.
01:03:46
Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart audiobook club.
01:03:54
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary.
01:04:03
Massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
01:04:11
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
01:04:18
And it's like, OK, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
01:04:30
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
01:04:37
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.
01:04:41
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:04:50
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compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan as of January, 2026.
01:05:50
For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. All right, so my favorite murder.
01:05:56
All right this is one that people keep wanting us to do and I didn know about it until we started doing this show which i love finding new ones out that is a good feeling all right
01:06:07
this is the bain family murders i don't know this one i don't think all right you guys in
01:06:14
new zealand i feel i hear everyone from new zealand cheering right now because they're like
01:06:18
Finally. We have severely underserved Australia, New Zealand, that whole area. Can I tell you, I met some girls who were from Australia, and I was like, well, Australia's better.
01:06:30
And they're like, why? And I'm like, you have better serial killers. And they thought, I think they looked at me like I was fucking, like, I don't think that they were on the same level as me.
01:06:37
They're not one of us. No, because they're like, oh, and they kind of looked at each other and like, yeah, we got good serial killers.
01:06:45
Anyways. Anyways, nice to meet you. I love my cats. Okay, so on the morning of June 20th, 1994, that might have been my bat mitzvah day, actually.
01:06:55
Oh, really? The day I was bat mitzvahed. What was your main bat mitzvah gift? Oh, well, the one I remember the most that I loved the most was a Ren and Stimpy poster.
01:07:03
Oh, my God. That's so Jewish. I know, I know. Yeah. Fucking love Ren and Stimpy.
01:07:12
They're pretty great. Okay, so David Bain, who was 22 at 7 a.m., he called 111, which I'm assuming is 911 in here.
01:07:22
I was going to say 999. Right. I was like, yeah, yeah, it's 999. I get it. I think I'm slowly losing my mind.
01:07:30
I think you are too. It'll be fun though, because I'll do it on this podcast. Because last week you asked, why didn't I ask this murder victim if she had had sex with her boyfriend?
01:07:38
Yeah, and I was pissed about it too. It's like, this is really bad police work that you wouldn't ask a dead person why.
01:07:44
Anyhow. I love that because it's like, that's such an obvious brain malfunction.
01:07:49
I think I had very low blood sugar. All right, go ahead. Fair enough. So at 7 a.m., he calls the operator and he says, they're all dead.
01:07:56
They're all dead. When the police arrived, they found five members of the Bain family.
01:08:01
They had all been shot to death. The father, Robin, who was 58. The wife, Margaret, who was 50.
01:08:06
The daughters, Arawa, who was 19, and Lynette, who was 18. I might be saying these two girls' names wrong.
01:08:14
I'm sorry. Lynette sounds right. Well, it's L-A-N-I-E-T. Oh, Jesus. Lynette and Arawa is A-R-A-W-A.
01:08:23
A-R-A-W-A. Arawa? Sorry. Do you mean Aria Stark? What? From Game of Thrones? No.
01:08:31
All right. And their son, Stephen, who was 14. And there was evidence of a violent struggle involving Stephen, who was partially strangled as well as shot.
01:08:40
So David's story is that he got up at his usual time, he put on his running shoes, and he was a paper boy at 20.
01:08:47
So he went on his regular paper run with the dog. He arrived back around 6.42, entered the front door, went to his room.
01:08:54
He went downstairs to the bathroom where he washed his hands, which were black from newsprint.
01:08:59
He put his clothes in the washing machine, including a sweatshirt he wore, and then went back upstairs and noticed bullets and the trigger lock on the floor.
01:09:08
And he went into his mom's room to find her dead, then visited the other rooms where he heard Lynette gurgling, and then found his father dead in the lounge.
01:09:17
And he was devastated and rang emergency. and the defense who ended up trying this case proposed that robin the father killed the other
01:09:27
family members before he switched on the computer and typed a message that said um basically that
01:09:34
david was the only one who deserved to be here um and then killed himself but and that's what
01:09:43
looked like a murder suicide right oh looks like yeah looks like a murder suicide so
01:09:50
So David Bain was examined by a doctor on the morning and found to have some recent injuries.
01:09:58
He reported that he noticed recent bruising to the right temple and bruising about his eye.
01:10:05
And it looked pretty new. And David had no way to explain this. He didn't even try to explain this like he fell off his bike or anything.
01:10:13
So the only suspects were David, the oldest son, and the father. Okay, so they found a lens from the glasses that David had been wearing
01:10:22
on the floor of Stephen's room, like kind of underneath him. And there was bloody gloves found in Stephen's room.
01:10:32
And why is the father using gloves if he's going to kill himself? Right? Yep. So four days later, David Bain was charged with five counts of murder.
01:10:45
so his what actually happened later that this is from crime.co.nz the story is that david wakes up
01:10:55
around 5 a.m gets dressed and pulls out a 22 rifle um he unlocks the trigger attaches a silencer
01:11:02
and loads 10 round magazine puts on his white gloves blah blah he was wearing his mother's
01:11:08
glasses because his are being repaired he goes into his sister's room where that is i'm sorry
01:11:13
that's so scary that like just gave me a weird chill which part that his mother's
01:11:18
he was wearing his mother's glasses he's a 20 year old guy wearing white gloves with his
01:11:23
a rifle with a silencer and women's glasses yeah that's there's something very creepy
01:11:29
about that totally well like cause also sorry what year was it it was uh 94 so they're probably those ones
01:11:35
where the like very large the big very round they're serial killer glasses yeah yeah
01:11:41
um That's crazy. He goes into his sister Lynette's room where he shoots her twice in the head as she's sleeping.
01:11:48
Goes into his mother's room, shoots her in the forehead. In the room off his mother's room,
01:11:52
he finds Steven asleep. He puts the rifle to Steven's head, but Steven wakes up and pushes it away as it goes off.
01:12:00
there's a struggle with Stephen bleeding from the scalp wound as he fights for his life.
01:12:05
David twists Stephen's t-shirt to strangle him as he lies on the floor. David finishes him off with a bullet to the head.
01:12:12
And then during the struggle, his glasses fell off. He picks up his glasses and brings them back into his room and puts them on
01:12:19
his like desk, but there's still a lens in the other room. Right? So he goes downstairs where a sister,
01:12:26
Arawah has heard the shots and she's praying for help. Honey. No. Why didn't you run?
01:12:35
Phone for help. Yeah. Don't pray for help. He shoots her. He shoots at her and he can't see anything because he's not wearing his glasses.
01:12:42
Shoots at her again, finally gets her. Then he goes back upstairs where he hears Lynette gurgling and he shoots her again in the top of the head.
01:12:48
And this is a really good because I'm just going to get to this. he gets convicted of murdering his family. A few years later, the conviction is overturned. He's
01:12:58
now out. He was proven. He wasn't proven guilty. He's not proven innocent. He was proven not guilty
01:13:06
because of reasonable doubt. Why? And the reason you know that people don't think he's innocent is
01:13:12
that he tried to get money for his time that he was locked up. And the only way you can get money
01:13:17
is if you're proven innocent. And he wasn't. So he shoots her and kills her. He hears the other sister gurgling.
01:13:24
But remember in his account of what happened, he said that he heard his sister gurgling
01:13:31
when he got home from the newspaper delivery. Right. So if he heard her and she was already alive,
01:13:36
still alive gurgling, then how did she die? Because she got a second shot and that killed her.
01:13:41
The first shot didn't. Oh, right. Yeah. Yeah, he's still there when the second shot happened.
01:13:45
While she's dying and the second shot happened. He didn't track that correctly. No, he did not.
01:13:50
He should have put that down on a piece of paper. He should have worked it out on scratch paper real quick.
01:13:54
And then burn the scratch paper. And then rinse the ashes down the sink. All of it.
01:13:59
He did not think this true. So he throws his bloody clothing in the washing machine, turns it on.
01:14:04
Just burn it. Yeah. And they found the father's blood on the washing machine, like a handprint of this kid's foot.
01:14:11
He turns on the computer and he types the suicide message from his father. And what the suicide message was, sorry, you're the only one who deserved to stay.
01:14:20
Wow. Then he hides behind the curtain with the rifle and waits for his father to come in to pray, which is a daily routine.
01:14:28
He kneels, David shoots him in the head and then calls 911. Okay, here's the fucking craziest part to me.
01:14:37
Two weeks after the murder, after the police have completed their inquiries and handed over and handed the house back over to the family trustees.
01:14:43
the house was burnt to the ground on purpose by the Bain family and the New Zealand Fire Service
01:14:50
and part of the reason that he got off and and wasn't put in jail the second time was because
01:14:56
the fucking cops and it's like a known thing I'm not just blaming cops bungled this so fucking hard
01:15:02
they didn't test the dad's hand for any gun residue gunpowder um just shit like that that
01:15:07
they just didn't do correctly they didn't so what is it New Zealand right yeah so they did probably
01:15:12
hadn't had like a whole family murdered before. I think it was a rural area where they lived too.
01:15:18
Yeah. So what they say is that the reason that they, that there was a doubt and thoughts that the father had done it and had done a
01:15:26
murder suicide was that the daughter Lynette had returned home. The reason she came home from college that week was to confront her parents
01:15:33
with her, that her father had been molesting her and that they'd had had an incest,
01:15:38
an incest, incestual relationship over several years. So he killed his family because of that.
01:15:44
That's what the offering was, right? But sorry, who was making that? Who was saying that?
01:15:51
Well, there are people, including both of their friends, because they were close in age, that said that they heard that.
01:15:58
But when they were called to trial, it says something about how they seemed confused about it.
01:16:02
So it was never like proven. But that also could have been like the defense attorney
01:16:07
making it seem like they didn't know what they were talking about. It seemed like it came from a couple of places,
01:16:12
but I don't think it was ever proven, which is another thing that the, and everyone, so I went,
01:16:16
I went on our, my favorite murder email and kind of just looked up Bain to see if anyone had emailed
01:16:20
us about them. And actually a lot of people have, um, someone named Alexander, he told me here,
01:16:26
I'm going to read his, his email. Um, the thing is here in New Zealand, people on both sides of
01:16:31
the camp are so passionate and sure about who they think killed everyone, Robin or David.
01:16:36
I've listened to intelligent people argue through their teeth for the completely different sides.
01:16:40
And during David's recital, I remember getting our history teacher in high school to spend the whole lesson explaining why David was innocent.
01:16:49
I've heard more heated arguments about David Bain than I have about religion or politics.
01:16:54
Wow. Yeah. Because people knew him. So like these are people that knew either the dad or the son.
01:17:00
No. These are people, I think everyone in New Zealand has an opinion. Okay. Based on these random facts.
01:17:06
all of this as well as a clear amount of sexual and physical abuse happening within the Bain family,
01:17:12
which I looked up and I couldn't find a ton of, I didn't find a lot of that clear evidence.
01:17:18
Combined with rumors of cops planting evidence on the scene to frame David or the fact that if
01:17:22
Robin had killed himself, he'd have come to have pulled the shotgun trigger with his toe
01:17:26
because the gun was really big Made for a pretty fucking intense story David Bain became kind of a meme in New Zealand because on TV and all the shots of him getting escorted by the cops etc He always wearing really ugly sweaters And this I saw a lot
01:17:42
People are calling him Cosby sweaters and shit. So basically there's a part in the middle of the call.
01:17:47
Okay, this is really interesting. So basically in the 911 call, he says they're dead, they're all dead.
01:17:52
And basically there's a part in the middle of the call where David more or less gasps or mumbles or murmurs.
01:17:58
It's a second long and you wouldn't think it was anything more than just him being out of breath.
01:18:02
But the prosecutor argued that David actually whispers something here. You can actually do tests online where you can listen to the gasp whisper and write what you think might be saying if he's saying anything at all.
01:18:14
What the prosecutors are claiming he said was that David quietly whispers to himself, I shot the prick.
01:18:20
So here's a theory that I had never heard before until I read this email that Robin killed his entire family.
01:18:26
David came home and found that and killed Robin because of that. Ooh. Yeah. So it kind of,
01:18:33
everybody's guilty. Yeah. So this guy says, um, did David discover Robin had killed everyone?
01:18:38
And in a fit of revenge, she shot his prick of a father himself. No, because that doesn't prove,
01:18:43
that doesn't explain why the glass sunglasses lens or the glasses lens is underneath.
01:18:47
Yeah. The thing. Yeah. He said that he lost, he left the glasses in there like the prior,
01:18:54
the week prior, something like that. he had an excuse for that. They were under the bed or under the brother.
01:19:00
I think they were, I looked at crime scene photos and they were like a myth. They were like underneath some clothing and stuff.
01:19:07
So it wasn't necessarily his, his body. Um, yeah. And then let's see. I will say this,
01:19:15
just if this was just like, I had to decide right this second. Okay. When you go,
01:19:22
when you are, first of all, 20 year old newspaper delivery boy, red flag. Totally.
01:19:29
Live at home still. What the fuck are you doing? Secondly, when you come home from a newspaper route and maybe he was riding a bike all
01:19:37
over Hills, Dales, I don't know, but you would work it out. Like I get washing your hands cause you have black shit all over your hands,
01:19:46
but going down to the washing machine and stripping down and washing all your clothes and turning the washing machine on immediately.
01:19:52
Doesn't make any sense. It sure doesn't. Also, I read another thing that was saying that he, in his explanation of what happened to the cops, he said he saw his mother and his sis, like two people.
01:20:06
But on the 911 call, he says they're dead. They're all dead. Oh, so he was trying to make it seem like.
01:20:12
No. How did he know they were all dead? If in his, it's another one of his, he fucked up by saying that they're all dead when, and he had only seen two of the bodies.
01:20:21
Oh. So how did he know they were all dead? Oh. Yeah. And then I kind of interpreted the dad's, if the dad had done it, I kind of interpreted his, you know, his computer message saying, you're the only one who deserves to still be here.
01:20:41
I was like, maybe he's killing them thinking that he's doing them a favor and he thinks his son is a piece of shit.
01:20:47
And he's like, you're the only one who still deserves to be on this shitty planet.
01:20:51
Oh, like he means it in the negative. Yeah, not like you're the only good enough person to not get killed.
01:20:56
Maybe you're the only one who's not good. I mean, that's crazy. Yeah. But doesn't it seem very like classic narcissist where you would write a fake letter talking about how great you were?
01:21:11
Yeah, to me it's too much. Yes, that the dad would be like, I'm going to murder everybody.
01:21:17
We've all been in this house together doing God knows what terrible shit. But I pick you as my favorite.
01:21:23
Everybody else is going down. To me, it's too much. It's too stupid that the son would write that.
01:21:29
Like he should have written some. I think he would have known to write something more.
01:21:35
Yeah, but he was a 20-year-old paper boy. Yeah, but it sounds like he planned this whole murder out.
01:21:39
Because he also did a thing where he made sure his whole family. He called a family meeting the night before.
01:21:45
It seems like what people are explaining that as. is that he was trying to make sure
01:21:51
everyone was in the house that night and the next day. Wow. Yeah. I don't think there's any way he didn't do it.
01:22:00
Yeah, also because... Sorry, did you say any of the accusations about incest or molestation were proven?
01:22:07
No, they couldn't be proven, but it's brought up a lot. There's a couple people who can corroborate it,
01:22:14
but they never did at trial. So who knows how reliable those are. But also that's like, it's the perfect thing.
01:22:23
It's the perfect like ingredient to add into this for confusion. Totally. But I don't think he said it.
01:22:30
So it doesn't make any, you know, it's not like he's the one. Oh, that wasn't his story.
01:22:33
It wasn't his story. Whoa. He was also never like, my dad is an asshole. I can't believe he killed my whole family, which you think you would be saying.
01:22:41
Yeah. Or I can't believe my dad did this. I would never think my dad was capable of this or anything along those lines.
01:22:47
He never did that. Or to use that to justify why he killed his dad. His dad killed the family, but he killed the dad.
01:22:53
Right. Yeah, because you think that... Yeah. He would be painting himself as a hero.
01:23:00
Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I can believe there a huge argument about whether or not this kid did it It fascinating Yeah Well you know what You know how they find out how if he kills somebody else now that he free yeah i don know maybe he won maybe he was 20 and fucking
01:23:20
just trying it was like it was like he was going through a reggae phase except for murder
01:23:26
maybe he was really into hacky sack for a short period of time and then he he grew some white dreads went nuts except for murder no i'm ready to be an accountant he seems
01:23:37
like a celebrity like a celebrity too like a local celebrity well because i mean what's better to talk
01:23:42
about than something that has everything murder incest it's real ugly you can't gloves ladies
01:23:48
glasses cosby sweaters cosby sweaters i mean and i can attest to this i saw some photos i'm
01:23:55
this is to me staircase level yeah fascinating this is very staircasey oh speaking of i went to
01:24:01
a party over the weekend remember ari aaron dewey lennox who had her we talked about how she had her
01:24:06
prom photo on the staircase because she was friends with that family. She sent me straight
01:24:12
over the weekend. She said, in that episode, you said that I believed the owl theory. And she's
01:24:18
like, and I fucking don't. I was like, I'm so sorry. I love it. Yeah. So she doesn't.
01:24:24
I thought she was going to be like, and I have the blow poke. Here it is. No, no. Oh,
01:24:29
that's amazing. Okay. That makes me feel better because the owl theory is absolute fucking
01:24:35
insanity and is not real. And she has friends with a sister who has like alienated herself from the rest of the
01:24:41
family who believes he didn't do it. I hope I'm not. I hope she's okay with me. You just said every single name she has.
01:24:48
I know. She's a very funny comedian and everyone should go to her shows. And also she probably would have told you if she was mad about the owl theory, she would
01:24:55
have told you she was mad about the name thing. Maybe I'll text her after this and be like, we cool?
01:25:00
Let's call this episode. it's going to be edited so much that it's going to be 11 minutes long yeah totally it's now if
01:25:07
you're not listening to an episode that's at least an hour and 20 minutes you're listening
01:25:11
to the wrong you're listening to a very you're listening to uh yeah a reject episode yeah um
01:25:19
oh i also met a girl who okay i'm just gonna make this short yeah her photos stalking photos
01:25:29
were found at the BTK crime scene. What? What? What? What? Her name is Taryn Southern.
01:25:34
She's a fucking YouTube star. She's a sweet angel, awesome person. And she was like, casually, we were like chatting
01:25:39
and I, you know, the murder podcast got mentioned and she's like, oh, I have a weird, I have a story.
01:25:43
It's not that big of a deal. And she's like, he was, she went to the church where he was a security guard.
01:25:49
And he had pictures of her? Yeah. She was like 16 and they had to call her at college
01:25:55
and they were like, are you still alive? Oh. I know. Oh my God. And I was like, how is this?
01:25:59
You just won my life. You might as well just said to me, like, I met fucking Julia Roberts.
01:26:08
Yeah. That's, and did she lose her shit? I don't know if she lost her shit. She's like, I never spoke to him.
01:26:15
He wasn't like a creep. He chaperoned the prom. Oh, no. So there were photos of her like from prom.
01:26:23
Oh, but so she was like one of his favorites? I guess not favorite enough. Thank God.
01:26:28
Yeah. For real. Yeah. That's crazy. Wait, when they told her she was in college,
01:26:34
so she was like 16 when the pictures were taken, but then like 18 or older. Yeah.
01:26:39
Oh my God, that's crazy. Wait, has he been put to death yet? Or is he on death row?
01:26:43
I don't think he's been put to death. Has he? I don't think so. We'll edit it out if he has.
01:26:49
So if you're listening to this, he's not dead. One of the more professional podcasts
01:26:53
that you are going to hear on iTunes. You're welcome. I mean, look, we want to be professional for you.
01:27:02
Yeah. It's what we're all about. Yeah. This is who we are. It's what we do. I'm proud that this episode, I didn't say the word like 900 times.
01:27:10
Oh, you know what I want to stop doing? That I noticed halfway through and you'll notice that my voice isn't doing it.
01:27:15
I have vocal fry a lot. Yes. Where like I talk like this, where I like, you know, I'll be telling a story.
01:27:20
Oh, I was doing that the whole time last episode. Why do I do that? Well, we lay down a lot.
01:27:24
That's true. That's true. Georgia is often just flat on her back for the entire episode.
01:27:30
If I didn't have to sit up to look at my computer, usually I print my notes so I can hold them over my face,
01:27:36
I wouldn't get up. I've read a couple of the negative, of course, I have to read those.
01:27:44
Don't tell me. Well, no, it's just things like that. It's two valley girls making jokes about murders
01:27:49
or whatever, where I'm like, I get that. I hear that on the first pass. We are from California and we make fun of murder.
01:27:55
but that's not all it is. And we have kind of Valley Girl speech impediments. We totally,
01:27:59
we've lived in our life for a very long time. But we're also not afraid to lecture you on
01:28:03
how bad we think rape is. Right. We might really have to edit the top of that off.
01:28:08
All together? Should we just start over right now? Hey, thanks for listening. This is, I'm George
01:28:16
and this is Karen. Hey, Karen, how was your week? Oh my God, what a great week. Fun.
01:28:22
Positive. Super positive. Yeah. I like everything It's a good thing everything has been solved
01:28:29
Things are great and nothing's bad Yay Boo Let's end this two ways Because people have been asking for this one
01:28:38
Yeah we missed that So we're going to end it by saying guys Stay sexy Don't get murdered
01:28:44
Also Elvis do you want a cookie Oh what else Thanks for listening you guys What And Elvis
01:28:56
Cookie? And can we get the final statement? Cookie? Ah! Stereo. Thanks for listening.
01:29:03
Rate, review, subscribe. Bye. Bye. Bye. Whew. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Are there updates for this story?
01:29:16
A little bit. This is one of those cases that I think still come on those lists of like the biggest mystery, what actually happened.
01:29:24
It's kind of become this like folklore almost in New Zealand. But, you know, it's been 30 years since the Bain family murders.
01:29:32
As I stated in the episode, David Bain was convicted of the five murders of his family members.
01:29:37
However, after proving a number of errors in his trial, David's convictions were overturned and he was released after serving almost 13 years in prison.
01:29:47
Oh, wow. And a clarification, since it wasn't totally clear in the episode, David was ordered a retrial, which happened in 2009.
01:29:54
But a second jury ended up acquitting him on all five murder charges. So it's been overturned.
01:30:00
He's been released and acquitted. So it kind of someone had to know what they were doing and like know what was going on.
01:30:07
and that you'd think he maybe actually didn't do it. Well, and if that's the case,
01:30:11
and so he's wrongfully imprisoned and his whole family is dead. Oy vey. I mean, that's what a nightmare and how horrible.
01:30:20
Yeah, totally. This is like an episode where I feel like every fucking thing I'm saying
01:30:24
sounds the tritest thing I've ever said in my life. I mean, that's all you can say.
01:30:30
Yeah. So now he's in his 50s and he lives with his wife and children under a new name.
01:30:35
Wow. And so to end this, this episode is the first time we end with both SSDGM and Elvis saying goodbye.
01:30:44
That's right. Monumental. It took us 20 episodes to kind of work out the kinks. We're starting to get this thing on its feet.
01:30:51
Yeah, get a tagline. We're starting to tell full stories. We're starting to do all our homework.
01:30:56
Yeah. Yeah. But so 2020, as everyone knows who loves the show 2020, it's a perfect title.
01:31:02
Sure. But there could be other ones. Georgia said Child's Art Project, which is her describing the cross stitch that she started for me.
01:31:11
She was giving me. What did you just not give it to me? I think it's still in here somewhere like halfway done.
01:31:19
I definitely didn't finish it. Well, thanks. I got really into cross stitching. Turns out when you cross stitch, you can be really good at cross stitching or you can have cats.
01:31:30
But you can't have both. So I learned that lesson. That makes a lot of sense. And then the other title could be Swimming Above All, which Karen talks about doing a somersault off the side of a pool, hitting your head, and then going back to swimming afterwards because swimming above all.
01:31:47
I like that one. I truly had never hurt my head that badly. And I was just like.
01:31:53
Just power through it. It doesn't matter. A head injury. Just keep going. Keep going.
01:31:57
And that's what we have done for the past eight and a half years. That's right. This has been like a head injury.
01:32:03
keep just keep going keep going all right well thanks everybody for listening you know be here every wednesday with us while we kind of muck through our old episodes our old
01:32:16
victories and mistakes they really they contain multitudes this is like a bog and we're like
01:32:22
digging out the bog bodies yeah there's bodies but then there's also a beautiful golden chalice
01:32:27
Treasures in the bog. Okay, stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
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