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00:01:12
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Restrictions apply. See the website for full terms and conditions. Hello. And welcome.
00:01:54
To Rewind with Karen in Georgia. That's right. This is our new Wednesday episode where we travel back in time and we trick you into coming with us, not unlike Back to the Future.
00:02:04
Hey, Back to the Future. It's Back to the Future with a lot more murder. Yeah, that's the move you've always wanted.
00:02:11
We'll give you some case updates on the stories we covered, maybe a few apologies, and that sense of joy that could only be experienced before the pandemic.
00:02:19
Oh, RIP. Remember? Everything. Remember joy. No. So today we're revisiting episode 22, which we named the girls with the episode 22.
00:02:33
We were doing fine. We were fine. We were great. It came out on Monday, June 27th, 2016.
00:02:40
So hop in, Marty's. Now we can all be day one listeners. Marty! Okay, let's get into it. We're going to listen to the intro of episode 22.
00:02:49
And just a warning, we do talk about eating disorders, our own eating disorders in this conversation.
00:02:54
So please take care. Welcome, everybody, to My Favorite Murder, the podcast, the highly professional true crime podcast that asks the question,
00:03:08
What if two women who were slightly interested in true crime and had a free time on their hands and like to have conversations and make up facts and not do a lot of research?
00:03:23
We need to start this over. No, I love it. Now you do one. Hey, everyone. This is My Favorite Murder, a podcast where we talk about our favorite murders, which is kind of insulting to people who have been murdered.
00:03:36
but we don't mean it that way. We're trying to be fucking cool and interested. And like,
00:03:42
we have so much like empathy, right? That's our, that whole thing was our tagline.
00:03:49
Okay. Are we, are we blowing this? Should we do another one? Or are you just going to keep doing it?
00:03:54
Like welcome to what the fuck starring Mark Maron. Oh my God. Our listenership just went up so high.
00:04:03
Oh my God. We'll steal listeners from Marin. We'll convert them to our way of thinking about murder.
00:04:09
Yep. Which is with very little fact. Right. Which is just kind of conversational.
00:04:15
I'm good. It's nice to see you. I saw you, Georgia, last night briefly at a comedy show where there was no air conditioning.
00:04:22
And we both looked like we were crossing paths in a sauna, essentially, is what it looked like.
00:04:30
Well, if the podcast, I'm not sure, I'm not for sure, but if this is coming out a day late, it's because we normally record on Monday, but my apartment was so fucking disgustingly hot and I, and I don't, and I have TV money.
00:04:44
I have base, I have, I have cooking channel money. Yeah. You have TV money, which is the, which isn't what TV money used to be.
00:04:53
It's now radio money. Right. So I live in a one bedroom apartment with no fucking air conditioning.
00:04:58
That's what I'm trying to like. And on Monday and Sunday, it was like 106. Yeah.
00:05:03
It was over 100 degrees in Los Angeles. So my living room was like a jacuzzi. It felt like a jacuzzi.
00:05:11
Yeah. So we're doing it instead on Wednesday and we're sorry, but. Yeah. It's a weather delay.
00:05:17
It's a legit weather delay. And a lot of Los Angeles is being affected this way because the stupid comedy show.
00:05:24
I don't know if their air conditioning broke or if they had some kind of blackout or brownout or something.
00:05:29
But they couldn't. So it was like a full on comedy show with a full audience. They had to open the side door.
00:05:34
When I was on stage, there was nothing. Cop cars went by and ruined my Bjork bit.
00:05:40
Your Bjork bit was so good. It was, people did not laugh at all. And I wonder if it's just because it was like two cop cars or an ambulance,
00:05:48
whatever was going by. Did you hear me loudly cackling in the back? Was that you?
00:05:51
Yeah. I'm supportive. I learned a long time ago from someone who used to like I know in comedy should I say who it is sure Ed Salazar oh yeah he like a sweet baby angel when he I hated being near him when he was at a comedy show
00:06:08
because he would laugh super loud and clap when he laughed which like laugh clapping is my least
00:06:12
favorite thing in the world and he had this like ha ha like loud laugh yeah one day I was like what
00:06:16
the fuck and he was like I'm being supportive of my friends I want them to know when they're on
00:06:21
stage that I am laughing out loud and making people around me laugh too. And I was like,
00:06:25
Oh, that's why I do it too. You like get trained as a standup that you have to let your friends,
00:06:32
you know, the feeling that they're having on stage, which is usually, uh, the world hates my
00:06:36
guts and you're kind of trying to earn back from that below zero feeling. And so when you're,
00:06:43
when you are genuinely make your comedian friends laugh in the audience, they know they have to let
00:06:47
you know, cause that's basically saying, don't stop doing that bit. Right. There's no like,
00:06:51
there's no under your breath guffaw. It's like, ha ha ha. Which I fucking love and I do now.
00:06:57
And I'm like, I'll do it so loud. And I don't care. Now I'm thinking there were a couple moments where I was laughing at a
00:07:05
certain laugh and I'm pretty sure it was you. I go, ha ha ha. Is that it? Yeah, because it almost
00:07:11
sounded sarcastic. But I was like, don't go into how you think a person is sarcastically laughing at you
00:07:17
when that's probably not happening. I need to change her. I'll go, ha. Well, now that I know that it's going to make me laugh instead of being defensive, because someone didn't make a weird.
00:07:28
I did the first joke I did in the as the laughter was ebbing because the first joke went fine.
00:07:34
Then someone and it sounded like a drunk dude went. Yeah. And it was the kind of thing that makes me want to jump off the stage and strangle someone.
00:07:42
Hold on, though. Was that in the back? I don't know. Because there was a joke you did about the Yucca Corridor.
00:07:49
Yes. Where you used to live in Hollywood. Right. And you went, I lived in the Yucca corridor.
00:07:53
And there was a guy in front of me who like went, yeah, genuinely was like, used to live there.
00:07:58
And I'm from L.A. almost. And I didn't know what that was. So I think that maybe that's who it was.
00:08:04
No, no. I know what you're talking about. And that was like he was trying to support.
00:08:07
But that was the setup of a joke. It wasn't the punchline. This was after the punchline.
00:08:11
And it was basically someone making a sarcastic comment like, I kind of don't agree with you, is what it sounded like.
00:08:19
Can I tell you one of my, like this moment I go back to, you know, the shame is like the next day after you were drinking, you're like this, I did this thing and I'm so ashamed of it.
00:08:27
Oh yeah. I have one from like 2007 that I still like think about, about, I was at a comedy show and I went, nope at something and I want it.
00:08:40
And it was a friend who was on stage, but it was still like, and I remember a couple of comedians that I'm friends with turned around to see who said that.
00:08:46
and I still think of it and get this like coochie twinge of like of shame you know like oh I can't
00:08:54
believe I did that oh my god that sounds that is a that in a nutshell is what I was like when I was
00:08:59
drinking although I was drunk I would never have a twinge about it I would be like and that's the
00:09:06
least I'm gonna say right you're lucky I'm not yeah that's why I kind of try not to get too drunk
00:09:10
at comedy shows because like I don't want to like fucking say anything. No, I know.
00:09:15
It's it's a it's for me, it was a lot of bad behavior would take place because like at
00:09:20
the old Largo, we would stand in the back and then the comedian would be on stage.
00:09:25
There would be these people that paid money and waited in line dinner, eating dinner to
00:09:29
watch the show. And then the comics would stand in the back and talk to each other while other people
00:09:34
stood next to each other. I'm sure we did. Right. My friend and I were like, we don't have dinner.
00:09:37
We're like the cool ones who go in the back and stand. You'd stand by the sound booth?
00:09:41
Yeah. So here's what I used to do. And maybe you remember this. Because I stopped drinking right when that show started.
00:09:49
We would all be talking. And I would, of course, be laughing, not at the comic, but at things my friends were saying.
00:09:55
And if anybody would turn around who was standing in the audience area, I'd literally go, turn around.
00:10:03
Like a high school bully. It was one of my favorite things to do. Imagine how broken I am inside.
00:10:09
You would have hated me. You would have been so mean to me if we had met back then.
00:10:12
Are you the kind of person that would turn around and try to give me a dirty look?
00:10:16
No. I think if one of my friends are on stage and someone's talking a lot, I'll do it and be like, you know, shut the fuck up.
00:10:22
I probably would have enjoyed that. Yeah. I think it's the passive aggression. I was just obnoxious.
00:10:28
I don't think you would have liked me because I was like a hipster, like an anorexic hipster.
00:10:31
I like rode my Vespa to, I'm not kidding. I rode my Vespa to Largo to watch like alternative comedians.
00:10:42
Yeah, I probably wouldn't have liked him. When I was like 21. Well, I wouldn't have liked you on the surface.
00:10:46
Right. But also I wasn't confident enough to like be cool around you. The way I was when we met when I was in, not anorexic anymore and in my 30s.
00:10:56
Well, you had your, you had your own, you know, identity going. Yeah. Um, but I have, in my opinion, anorexia and, uh, my eating disorder are very similar where
00:11:08
it's just, it's the equal opposite where it's just, it's a weird body. Like bingeing?
00:11:15
Is that what you think you have? Mm-hmm. Is that what you think you have? That was so mean.
00:11:19
Is that what you think you have? See, we have so much in common. This is such a cunt.
00:11:23
Is that what you're claiming? Oh my God. It's a total cat party. It's, oh God, this is a mess right now.
00:11:30
I got a kitten. I'm fostering a kitten and my cats are fucking rebelling and I'm sorry.
00:11:35
No, it's fine. All right. So we have some housekeeping. Oh, yeah. You want to go first?
00:11:42
Oh, well, I just needed to say that in my classic style, when I did the story about the evil nurse from the 1800s that liked to kill people last week.
00:11:54
Can you do a correction Yeah Okay Because she used to do a combo more morphine and atropine Did you see this No I always forget a that I talking to other people besides you and B that a lot of those
00:12:11
people are medical from the medical profession. They have studied and gone to school. That's so
00:12:17
problem. I just, as I was reading my, uh, very light research, um, I just assumed that atropine
00:12:25
would be the opposite of morphine, but actually because of all the genius people that we have on
00:12:30
our Facebook page, I learned from, uh, a person who I believe is either an RN or, uh, uh, medical
00:12:38
registered person. I can't remember. They had, it was like three people who were like a doctor,
00:12:43
Or a nurse and someone else. Yeah, I'll correct my correction. But they basically said atropine is the drug that stopped the, what's it called?
00:12:55
The death rattle, which is the final sounds that you make that go on and on. That terrible breathing at the end of life.
00:13:03
Heard it. I assumed atropine was some kind of an upper. I thought she was giving them uppers and downers.
00:13:08
Like fucking with their uppity and downs? Yeah, like killing them and bringing them back.
00:13:11
But that was just me assuming. Wait, so they're also downers. They're also downers.
00:13:17
It's just different ways of shutting people's systems down. I literally wouldn't care if you ever corrected that.
00:13:26
I know, but I'm correcting it because I have a bad habit of making assumptions that are like, I make assumptions about medical knowledge and stuff like that.
00:13:36
So you think if you had said, I don't know what they are, you wouldn't have cared?
00:13:39
or is it because you it's because I I'm saying it as if I know it for a fact and it's because
00:13:46
my mom was a nurse so I'd hear her use terminology so I was like I know what atropine is
00:13:50
well of course I fucking don't know what atropine is no that's fair man I say Yiddish words
00:13:54
that don't mean the right thing all the fucking time because I heard my grandma say it
00:13:57
well you can apologize for that on your Yiddish podcast but I have nothing to do with
00:14:02
it's actually Yiddish true crime podcast okay we're back is this the first corrections corner?
00:14:11
No. No. I think that episode two, we had a corrections corner. Yeah, yeah. If not episode one.
00:14:18
And it's such a hilarious, I think this is when I first started realizing this is my Gen X personality
00:14:24
that younger people don't understand. We didn't have the internet growing up. So you could say anything you wanted all the time.
00:14:32
And you never got checked unless someone was like a pharmacist that you were talking to.
00:14:36
So I have that kind of thing. I really used to love to talk about stuff like I knew it because it felt like I knew it.
00:14:44
You mean like drugs and stuff? Well, yeah, like this thing where I said morphine was a downer and atropine was an upper.
00:14:50
And I was just kind of guessing that. Yeah, it made sense in the context of the story.
00:14:54
Well. But you know what? That doesn't matter for shit. Well, you know what? The internet said, no, thank you.
00:15:01
But, you know, this is just, this is us being us, I think. Yeah, and you introducing us as W2AF with Marc Maron, us being us.
00:15:11
Also, you say here that anything pre-1800 is boring as fuck. And then what's hilarious is we go on to cover old stories.
00:15:19
I know. And I will say I don't believe that anymore. You've really changed me when it comes to stories.
00:15:25
And actually, this story that you do, I remember just being kind of horrified by it in a way that's like,
00:15:33
whoa, the past is more interesting than I realized. Even though it's like, might not even be a true story,
00:15:38
the one you cover. Right. It's a little legendy, but it is that kind of thing where it's like,
00:15:42
there is, you know, history class could have been much more exciting if people told these kinds of stories,
00:15:49
like found them and then talked about, is this an urban legend? Well, maybe. And here's why this urban legend
00:15:55
would have been floated. Right. And here's why it actually, like there's bits of real information from it.
00:16:01
Because it's not that, It's not that out of the realm of possibility that something similar like this would have happened.
00:16:06
Right. I think, well, it's— Well, you'll— Yeah. Listen to it. You know what? How about we listen to Karen's story from episode 22, The Legend of Sawny Bean.
00:16:19
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00:16:50
it's ryan seacrest for safeway for you save days are here now through june 23rd find hot deals
00:16:56
throughout the store and earn four times a point. Look for in-store tags to earn on eligible items
00:17:01
from Triscuit, Quaker, Reese's, and Dots pretzels. Then clip the offer in the app
00:17:06
for automatic event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more. Enjoy savings on top of savings
00:17:12
when you shop in-store or online for easy pickup or delivery. Restrictions apply.
00:17:16
See the website for full terms and conditions. Hey everyone, it's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Ear Say,
00:17:23
the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter,
00:17:30
the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary, massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science
00:17:39
and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth. I really had to make a decision because I caught myself
00:17:46
getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary as I'm narrating some of these sections.
00:17:50
And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent? And I really thought about it I was like no at this point it would kind of be betraying the trust the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don go through it But there places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me
00:18:08
And I left it on the mic. That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh, my God, I cried at the end.
00:18:14
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:18:25
yeah so last week we had a chat a challenge we're gonna have a topic and and it's um
00:18:32
1500s 1500s the reason i called you a tutor is because when you asked that one of the first
00:18:41
things that people posted was the one i wanted to do right i went on okay here's my problem i think
00:18:46
1500 i think anything pre 1800 is boring as fuck uh-huh i just i really don't care
00:18:54
Well, now we know that. We didn't know that before. I didn't even know that. Or I was like, I don't fucking, who cares?
00:19:01
You fucking, like, you and your corsets and your. God, there was so much. Latin.
00:19:07
There's a lot of Latin. And there was a lot of calling people a witch and then just slowly murdering them.
00:19:14
Like, if they owed you money or you wanted their seat. Totally. And then there's just so much, like, so much that is lore at that point.
00:19:24
yes that isn't interesting like to me it's like this thing happened in the 1920s like that was so
00:19:30
recent yeah and so interesting and and also like he's gonna step all over your computer and ruin
00:19:36
your files it's cats this is hot cat action this is what it's like i'm used to it i'm just i really
00:19:42
like that i'd be able to put myself in someone's shoes and if the shoes are like made of fucking
00:19:48
fox skin and they're like and they haven't invented laces yet and they like you know i just don't
00:19:53
care what about old clogs absolutely truly wooden no legitimately wouldn't that sounds so uncomfortable
00:20:00
yeah what if they had nice high arches like arch support they don't if they do a peasant
00:20:06
i'm saying dream clogs okay no i would never wear clogs i love clogs i'm sorry um i think it's interesting but when i went to read about it there was just a lot of like
00:20:19
extra ease uh at the on the end of words and stuff where i was like there's no way i'm reading that
00:20:26
because it looks like something and like an old monk uh wrote in calligraphy yeah that's exactly
00:20:33
and i love a murder where i can be like oh that like someone will write it and be like that was
00:20:36
my grandfather and my or my grandfather is from the town that that happened and i think it's and
00:20:41
he always said this and i mean that can't happen and so i wrote on the facebook page can someone
00:20:45
fucking tell me their favorite 1500 murder because i really don't know what mine is like i just don't
00:20:49
have one and then there was great one yeah yeah and i ended up using the one i kind of originally
00:20:54
had thought of um this chick that everyone wanted to do but like had has been overdone but the chick
00:21:01
who bathed in blood bathory yeah what a fucking cunt i mean but or or was she being persecuted by
00:21:11
the whatever church cat is probably yeah who just spread these rumors about her to like
00:21:15
get her under there except for there were witnesses but see that's the thing is like
00:21:20
i was reading that and i'm like oh no it is real they are witnesses but this was back
00:21:24
in the in those times it was like those the witch hunt shit went from like the 1400s to the 1700s
00:21:31
plus at that time the people who wrote the history who wrote the books of what happened
00:21:36
could be shady as fuck too. It's not like it's journalism the way it is today, which is still pretty fucking shady.
00:21:43
It's like, you know. So wait, did you do her? No. Oh, okay. Because I think, who just did,
00:21:50
was it, someone just did a whole, a whole episode on her. Oh, okay. So I wasn't interested.
00:21:58
Oh, okay. So fuck them. Fuck them. We've been, the week that I did The Nurse, some other
00:22:07
crime podcast did The Nurse too. I was really sad. I'm sorry. I did not know. I'm fucking
00:22:13
sorry. Look, I'm sorry. Yeah, someone did mind. Yeah, I mean, they're just going to overlap.
00:22:17
Yeah. So I think it's me or you. It's either me or you or Elvis. I think it might be me.
00:22:28
Okay. Pretty sure. I don't care. I mean, who cares, right? I mean, who gives a fuck?
00:22:36
I did the Sawny Bean Clan. Do you know those people? Which one? No. I mean, which one were they?
00:22:42
Tell me in a story. Why don't I tell you story style? Do it. Okay. Lay your head back.
00:22:48
Okay. On a cat. Close your eyes. On a cat. The Sawny Bean Clan is an infamous Scottish family
00:22:59
from either the 1400s or the 1700s. Let's say the 14. Why didn't we know? Because it's almost like a Scottish urban legend
00:23:11
that they have attributed to several different eras. And it's because they think this one is definitely propaganda
00:23:21
that the English government used to make Scottish people look like... Barbarian.
00:23:28
Yes. And Deviants. But let's talk about it as if it's real first. And then we'll talk about that part later.
00:23:35
I love it. So, If He Was Real, this story and the details from it are the source of horror films like Texas Chainsaw Massacre, Ravenous, The Hills Have Eyes.
00:23:52
Really? Yeah, because it's a family of cannibals. Sure. And it's a family of cannibals who live in a hidden cave.
00:24:00
who were a huge incestuous clan that only came out at night, and they were highway robbers.
00:24:10
So people would travel along these roads along the Scottish countryside that was kind of like along the coast,
00:24:18
and they would be trying to go between one city and the other, and the Sawney Bean clan would come out from their cave that was hidden at high tide.
00:24:28
so no one knew where they were and they would go out in the night, hide a highway traveler would go by on their horse
00:24:36
and this clan of inbred cannibals would jump out, pull them off their horse murder them, steal their shit, kill their horse
00:24:48
drag it all back to the cave which apparently went a mile underground Sounds like pretty sweet digs
00:24:56
Yes. And they would eat the meat of the people and then they had big piles of possessions.
00:25:04
So it was almost like a treasure cave, but also filled with horrors and blood and whatnot.
00:25:10
So the head of it was Alexander Bean, who was born in the 1500s in East Lothian, Scotland, which is a few miles outside of Edinburgh on the east coast of Scotland.
00:25:22
and they don't know that much about the details of his life. They do know, they kept saying that he was like,
00:25:30
he was the son of like a ditch digger and a hedge trimmer or something like that.
00:25:35
So basically like his father was a hardworking, you know, working class man. And they kept saying that he was lazy.
00:25:43
Alexander Bean was lazy. He didn't want to do hard work. And so he basically left his family
00:25:49
where his only option was to do what his father did. He met up with a woman who also didn't want to do hard work.
00:25:55
And her name was Black Agnes Douglas, which is probably my favorite name to date in the research of this podcast.
00:26:05
So Black Agnes Douglas and Alexander Bean, Sawney Bean, settled into Ballantrae together, which is a city somewhere in Scotland.
00:26:18
And then Black Agnes, they were both run out of town because they suspected Black Agnes was a witch, of course.
00:26:26
There's no such fucking thing with witches, dude. Well, but there are such things as women who are smarter than other people in their village.
00:26:35
And so they have to live outside of society. Or believe a different religion than the majority of people who, yeah.
00:26:42
Yeah, like a Jew. Yeah. a smart Jewish lady that wants to live on the edge of town because here I am bullshit here I am in
00:26:49
fucking little Armenia hi I'm gonna I'm gonna drive you out of little Armenia would you please
00:26:54
because I need to get out of this fucking apartment anyways yes black Georgia get out of here so they
00:27:00
end up in this cave in B'nai Head which is between Gurvon and Ballantrae on the west coast of
00:27:08
scotland okay so ballantrae is on the west coast um so so basically you can't see the the cave at
00:27:19
high tide the tide goes out and suddenly there's a cave opening you walk in 200 to 200 yards deep
00:27:26
and then apparently it goes down so it's a mile underground that is so cool and um so they black
00:27:34
Agnes Sonny Bean move into this cave. They have 14 kids. Then they end up having nearly
00:27:40
50 grandchildren incestuously. Oh no. So they're this big crazy clan. And I already told you that they'd
00:27:50
come out at night. So they were hidden. They would attack people, rob them, murder them,
00:27:56
take all their shit back to the cave. So they never left a trace. They never left a survivor.
00:28:01
And they ate them. So it was as if these people were just disappearing. I mean, that's fucking off the grid, right?
00:28:07
Right. So some say that a thousand deaths were attributed to the Sawney Bean clan.
00:28:15
And because their reign of terror lasted for 25 years. Holy shit. So it all ended one fateful night when the Beans ambushed a married couple who were coming back from a fair.
00:28:29
They were riding on a horse together. and the Bean Clan attacked them and pulled the woman down off the horse,
00:28:38
immediately murdered her, ripped open her stomach, pulled out her entrails, began eating her on the spot,
00:28:44
blood everywhere. The husband, who was a great fighter, according to these reports,
00:28:50
had a sword and a pistol and he was fighting off the rest of the clan when a big group of fair goers
00:29:00
kind of come around the corner on the road and so the Sawney Bean clan runs away.
00:29:04
Okay. So they take the dead wife's body. This husband takes her body to the king
00:29:09
and says this crazy clan of lunatics attacked me and my wife, murdered my wife. Here's her body.
00:29:16
You got to help me. So the king and his... Sorry, hold on. Oh, you're good. Can I say Sawney Bean?
00:29:28
sounds like one of those like all you can eat soup and salad restaurants you're exactly right sawny interestingly enough was a derogatory nickname for a scottish person
00:29:43
in england so it'd be like how uh they called irish people patty it was the same thing so that's
00:29:51
another reason what like all the historians and scholars say this is an urban legend because everything about this is oh the disgusting old sawny bean Scotsman You know how they are how they live in caves eat human flesh and fuck their own children yeah um it that it
00:30:07
has that tone to it but we're still pretending that it's real so um they they go to king james
00:30:16
the sixth of Scotland and tell him all about what happened. So he gets a manhunt going with 400 men
00:30:26
and bloodhounds. And they look all around the countryside and they can't find anything until
00:30:35
the tide goes back out and the bloodhounds go crazy and find the opening of the cave.
00:30:40
That is so cool. And then they go into it. And this was the Captain Charles Johnson writing in 1742 describes what they found in the cave.
00:30:51
Legs, arms, thighs, hands and feet of men, women and children were hung up in rows like dried beef.
00:30:58
And a great many limbs lay in pickle. and a great mass of money, both gold and silver, with watches, rings, and swords, pistols,
00:31:08
and a large quantity of clothes, both linen and woolen, and an infinite number of other
00:31:14
things, which they had taken from those they had murdered. It's murder with an apostrophe D, old-fashioned murdered, were thrown together in heaps or
00:31:23
hung up against the sides of the den. And I've seen like illustrations. So it's basically like candlelight and then just body parts hanging from this from a cave.
00:31:35
So they were said to have been all captured alive and taken in chains to the tollbooth jail in Edinburgh.
00:31:45
Then either transferred to Leith or Glasgow, where they were promptly executed without a trial.
00:31:51
The men had their genitalia, hands and feet cut off, and then they let them bleed to death.
00:31:57
Oh, God. The women were all burned and children. What would you rather have? Burned?
00:32:04
I think it would be relatively faster. Oh, yeah. Okay. I mean, it would be horrible for like five minutes.
00:32:12
That's a long time of horrible. It is a long time. But bleeding out with no extremities is rough.
00:32:23
But I think that would be quick. and I think you'd be almost like numbed in your brain.
00:32:28
Getting burned alive seems like a fucking nightmare to me. Oh, wait. Did you see the message from the woman on Facebook who is a,
00:32:36
there was someone on there that is a registered mortician who said she would answer any questions for us.
00:32:43
I wonder if she would know something like that. Yeah. I guess that's not really her department of the actual dying.
00:32:48
Right, but she can probably, I mean. Like what's the pain, that'd be an interesting thing to know.
00:32:53
the pain factor and the window. Like how quickly do you go into shock if you are on fire?
00:32:59
Like immediately. I want to know that. How long? Let's see if she'll do a private AMA with us and maybe we can like read them on in a mini
00:33:08
episode. That's a good idea. So if you have questions for the licensed mortician and perhaps coroner, I don't, I can't
00:33:17
remember. I'm definitely making up the coroner part right now just for fun. Do you know I have an ex-boyfriend who's a, what is it called?
00:33:23
Pathological liar. Like me. A lot of those. No, he's a, he's a, he picks up dead bodies and brings them to the mortuary.
00:33:33
Wow. Yeah. And he was like my shitty, like my broken heart ex-boyfriend. And when I found that out that he did that, I was like, you fucking dick.
00:33:40
You busted me. Like the one that got away? No, I'm like glad he got away. But he like fucked me up when I did it.
00:33:47
And then he got to have like the best. He also like had then living his best, like my best life.
00:33:52
I was like, you dick. I want to do that. Whatever. He's gross. The mortician. Yeah.
00:34:01
Anyways. Yeah. Sorry. I'm jealous of him too. Yeah. Well, it's also just interesting because I think there's some people who'd never be able to do a job like that.
00:34:09
Like us probably. I know in reality. Yeah. I think it would be a very, very difficult thing to do.
00:34:15
Yeah. But so interesting. like I would want to know all about it I did too but I didn't want to speak to him anymore
00:34:21
I'd be like no yeah not that guy specifically but that's like there was a homicide detective
00:34:30
that was at the same thing I was at I think I told you about that and I wanted to talk to him so bad
00:34:37
but I couldn't bring myself to do it because I don't have any guts in that way of like
00:34:41
I can't do a cold call of like hi I'm Karen tell me uh i just wanted to ask you a couple questions about but i mean like how hot would
00:34:48
that be if you were like going out with a homicide detective you'd be like let me make
00:34:52
you a casserole and get your goddamn slippers just saying like how was your day yeah and how
00:34:59
was your day i really want you to tell me you're not just asking that because you're being a good
00:35:03
wife and like how was your day tell me about like margin accounting it's like what a bitch she is
00:35:08
How was your fucking day? How was your day when you came up on the perp And shit
00:35:14
Like everything Let me wrap this down I'm almost finished No that's great I love it
00:35:18
Okay so The most suspicious part Of the Sawny Bean story Is that no actual proof of him
00:35:29
Or his numerous victims actually exist So they're saying If this many people What they say is like thousands
00:35:37
over a 20 year period were truly disappearing from the Scottish coastline. Yeah.
00:35:43
There would be, it would be written in the newspaper or whatever, you know, the periodicals
00:35:49
of the time. There would be reports of it. And they don have they don have any proof of like him being born or existing and they don have proof of people disappearing It all just hearsay Would that not be his real name then Do they have his real name Alexander Bean I mean nobody named Alexander Bean yeah was born So they say The legend
00:36:13
of Sawney Bean first appeared in what they called British chapbooks which were rumor
00:36:17
magazines of the day. Sounds like the internet. Yes exactly. The old internet. Ye olde internet.
00:36:25
Ye olde internet. Which today leads many to argue that the story was a political propaganda tool to denigrate Scots after the Jacobite rebellions, which had happened from 1648 to 1746.
00:36:41
Which would make sense. Let's see. Scottish historian Dr. Louise Yeoman said that the later King James, who was the guy that in the story they say they brought that body to and got who got the 400 people up search party, said he was a keen hunter, but unlikely to have put himself in danger by leading a perilous trek like this.
00:37:06
and um she also said if james had successfully led an expedition to face down a well-armed group
00:37:14
of bloodthirsty cannibals he would have never we would have never heard the end of it so he was the
00:37:19
kind of king that like definitely bragged about any slight adventure that he ever went on and yet
00:37:25
not a word was written anywhere about him doing that to me that's the biggest like that to me is
00:37:30
the most like you can be like well maybe it was less victims and maybe his name was something
00:37:33
different or spelled differently but that is if it's all written record what he said yeah and he
00:37:39
was the kind of king that was like uh let me let you let me tell you a little story about how i
00:37:43
i found the sawny bean right um so but maybe that part could have been um like instead of getting
00:37:51
400 people they got 30 people and they were townsfolk it didn't go all the way to the king
00:37:56
like who knows that part i really don't want to let it go because i honestly think well and
00:38:01
This is the other thing, too. Author Sean Thomas disagrees with the fact that it is urban legend because he says if the Sonny Bean story is to be read as deliberately anti-Scottish, how do we explain the equal emphasis on English criminals in those same publications, the British chapbooks?
00:38:26
Wouldn't such an approach rather blunt the point? So he was saying like it wasn't just that one story.
00:38:32
There was all these stories. But other people say, yeah, except for the Sonny Bean story is so bad and extreme that people have been talking about it for hundreds of years.
00:38:42
That's the problem is that people have been talking about it. So it constantly becomes more and more gruesome.
00:38:47
And suddenly the king is involved when really it was just like the fucking head of the local township.
00:38:55
Right. Yeah. They also said that a lot of the local innkeepers were hanged, even though they were innocent, because they were always the last people to see those highway travelers alive.
00:39:07
But then that's another thing where like, well, then they would there would be record of their death and they can't find any of those.
00:39:14
so author Fiona Black writes in her book The Polar Twins the monstrous figure of Sawney Bean as written history
00:39:24
was probably an English invention cannibalism has a long history as a means of political propaganda
00:39:30
used by the dominant culture against those they want to colonize as an English invention Sawney may be considered
00:39:38
a colonial fiction written to demonstrate the savagery and uncivilized nature of the Scots in contrast to the superior qualities of the English nation.
00:39:48
Yeah. And also, so whether it's true or not, the one thing as an urban legend, the story of
00:39:56
Sonny Bean represents the extremes humans are forced to go to when famine and poverty
00:40:01
drive them to commit terrible deeds to survive, which is something that we all know the British
00:40:07
really did do when they were colonizing Scotland and Ireland, you know, the Irish potato famine
00:40:13
was not a famine because the crops failed. The English went in and took all of the crops out of
00:40:21
Ireland. So people were starving while boats filled with food were being shipped over to England. They
00:40:26
took all the food and intentionally starved Ireland so that they could take over the land.
00:40:31
So this is something England did as a practice. So it also could be the story of like, these were people who are forced in these extreme measures.
00:40:41
They didn't have anything else to eat. And then the story kind of came out from there.
00:40:45
Fucking colonialism, man. It's not cool. It's super not cool. It's kind of not. Kind of ruined.
00:40:52
You just like gone and pissed on a bunch of fucking continents and marked your shitty.
00:40:59
so that's that's a sunny bean story i was kind of bummed when i first heard that it was
00:41:05
an urban legend because it's such a good like you know it's like texas chainsaw massacre what
00:41:11
better scary thing than the long slow like people just disappearing off a road and then the idea
00:41:17
that it's in the middle of the night a family of inbred lunatics are coming to just pull you
00:41:22
off your horse and it's not even just like one crazy guy right one wild and crazy guy it's like
00:41:28
It's 50. It's like 50. Nutters. Scary. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Well. I hope it's not true.
00:41:39
I don't know what to hope anymore. Okay, we're back. Did we ever figure out when in time this is from?
00:41:51
Because it's 1400s or 1700s in the story. I mean I know I didn Did you Why would I I going fucking start It I mean I didn I I going to go 14 I do 17 just to cover our bets
00:42:05
How about that? And I'd like to announce that, yes, I opened a chain of salad and soup restaurants
00:42:11
called the Sawny Bean. That is one of my favorite jokes. When that joke came back up in this episode,
00:42:17
I was like, yeah. It does. We're doing it. It's always bothered me, that name, a little bit.
00:42:22
Sawny Bean is like... There's something I don't like about it. Yeah, well, it's on par with the soup plantation.
00:42:27
It's like, hey, maybe we don't celebrate that. Right. Okay, now it's your turn. Georgia goes second on this one,
00:42:36
and she's about to tell us a boring as fuck before 1800 story about the princes in the tower.
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Restrictions apply. See the website for full terms and conditions. Hey, everyone. It's Cal Penn. I'm the host of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club.
00:43:56
This week on the podcast, I am sitting down with Ray Porter, the narrator of Andy Weir's audiobook Project Hail Mary,
00:44:04
massive sci-fi adventure about survival and science and what happens when you wake up alone very far from Earth.
00:44:12
I really had to make a decision because I caught myself getting that frog in my throat and starting to get teary.
00:44:18
as I'm narrating some of these sections. And it's like, okay, yo, yo, yo, is this indulgent?
00:44:22
And I really thought about it. I was like, no, at this point, it would kind of be betraying the trust
00:44:27
the author and the listener have in telling this story if I don't go through it.
00:44:32
But there's places in this book that deeply emotionally affected me. And I left it on the mic.
00:44:38
That's great. Because it served the story. People will say like, oh my God, I cried at the end.
00:44:43
It's like, yeah, dude, me too. Listen to Earsay, The Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club
00:44:48
On the iHeartRadio app Or wherever you get your podcasts What's your favorite murder?
00:44:55
My favorite 1500 murder That you hate in general That I hated No, actually, I had been reading about this
00:45:02
Like a couple months ago Because I had never really I'd heard the term But I'd never understood the story
00:45:10
Because Fuck Shakespeare The Princes in the Tower Oh I saw that on the list But I didn't read that one
00:45:18
Yeah so this was This reminded me of that And it's a really interesting story It takes place in 14
00:45:25
Around starts in 1483 It starts in 1483 With the Oh my god I have to do this again
00:45:32
And I meant to look this up Uh oh you're going to get in big trouble For pronouncing it wrong
00:45:38
No this is embarrassing So one with a V is five, right? No, that's four. God damn it!
00:45:47
When the one is before the V, it's four, and if it's after, it's six. Fourth grade was a really hard year
00:45:52
for me. Dude, who gives a fuck about Roman numerals? Seriously. So four. Okay. Wait, yeah, because X is ten. Okay.
00:46:01
So Edward IV of England, he died unexpectedly on April 9th, 1483. He had two sons, Edward
00:46:12
the fifth i guess edward the fifth of england just called him edward v edward v what's his
00:46:19
last name is v edward v and he was 12 and richard of shrewsbury duke of york who was nine that
00:46:29
doesn't sound like a nine-year-old's name no and it's almost like you can't be you can't be the
00:46:34
maybe prince one you can't be the prince but here you go you're the duke of york yeah she's like
00:46:38
cool. Ricky Shrewsbury. Ricky Shrewsbury. Um, Ricky. Yeah. Okay. So, so Edward dies unexpectedly,
00:46:46
but right before his death, he designates his brother, Richard as Lord Protector.
00:46:54
Richard the third? No, I don't know. Okay. Richard I, I, I don't see. I know Richard as Lord
00:47:03
protector okay yes no we'll see yes i'll let's read this sorry sorry i why would i even ask a
00:47:08
question no i just feel stupid um so i wrote down turns out he was a dick i wrote that in my notes
00:47:16
so richard was a fucking dick it's richard duke of glass um gloucester he sets out for london i
00:47:25
think it's gloucestershire sorry sorry i could definitely be wrong i could be wrong right all
00:47:30
This is the kind of thing like Edinburgh. It looks like it's Edinburgh, but it's Edinburgh.
00:47:36
Yeah. And you're supposed to know that even though you're from fucking Northern California or
00:47:40
Southern California. We're Americans. We're couldn't be more California. Or Americans.
00:47:45
And we're like, we don't even know what's going on. So Gloucester. Gloucester. Gloucester.
00:47:51
I don't know. Anyways. You know what? We're going to hear plenty from people who do know.
00:47:55
He sets out for London. Is that how you say it? yep yep so he sets out for london after his bro dies the following morning he arrests um edwards
00:48:12
oh my god i can't read any of this i mentioned his uncle the uncles so their half brother so
00:48:20
they he arrests the other kid like he's just already being like dicking around yep um and
00:48:26
They were sent to a castle where they were fucking, the uncle and the half-brother were fucking immediately beheaded in Yorkshire.
00:48:35
Wait, the nine and the 12-year-old? No, not, yeah. Oh, sorry, sorry. The nine and the 12-year-old's other uncle and half-brother were immediately beheaded.
00:48:43
Because Edward V was the heir to the throne. So he was supposed to, once his dad unexpectedly died, he was supposed to be fucking king.
00:48:52
so then Richard fucking grabs these two kids these two little ones Edward V of England and Richard of Shrewsbury
00:49:03
and Ricky Shrewsbury he takes possession of them Elizabeth Woodville who was the wife of Edward
00:49:11
who just died takes her other son Richard Duke of York and her daughters into a sanctuary
00:49:17
she's like fuck this in later days then Richard so Edward V and Richard arrive in London together
00:49:25
and then so plans start for Edward's coronation but the date kept being postponed
00:49:31
so this 12 year old kid who just lost his dad was like about to be the king which is insane
00:49:37
very Game of Thrones so on May 19th 1483 Edward was lodged in the Tower of London
00:49:45
scary it's the traditional residents of monarchs prior to the coronation. So he's still like, I'm going to be king.
00:49:54
And then on June 16th, he was joined by his younger brother, this kid, Richard, Ricky,
00:49:58
good old Ricky, who was previously in the sanctuary. But at this point, the date of Edward's coronation was indefinitely postponed by their dick,
00:50:07
Uncle Richard. Uncle Dick. Tricky Dick. Tricky Dick. Got it. So then on Sunday, June 22nd, a sermon was preached at St. Paul's Crossing, claiming Richard
00:50:18
to be the only legitimate heir of the House of York. So at this point, there's like this crazy conspiracy
00:50:25
to get this guy Richard, tricky dick, to be the king instead. Yeah. So a group of lords, knights, and gentlemen petitioned Richard
00:50:34
to take the throne. Both princes, the two kids, were subsequently declared illegitimate by Parliament because Richard changed the laws.
00:50:44
It was an act of parliament known as Titulus Regios. Regios. Again, I fucking hate.
00:50:51
Yeah. We don't speak Latin. No. So he said that the marriage between Edward IV and Elizabeth's marriage was invalid because of some contract of a pre-marriage.
00:51:04
So like he made some bullshit law and said that these kids aren't legitimate. So this one can't be king.
00:51:10
So he was crowned King Richard III. you were correct ma'am i was correct you were correct a miracle of england on july 3rd
00:51:21
and the declaration of the boy's illegitimacy had been described as an ex post facto justification
00:51:28
for him getting the fucking throne and it's recorded that after he sees the throne edward
00:51:35
and ricky were taken to the quote inner apartments of the tower and they were seen less and less
00:51:41
Sometimes they were seen like playing outside, but less and less. And Edward was regularly visited by a doctor who reported that like a victim prepared for sacrifice, he sought remission of his sins by daily confession and penance because he believed that death was facing him.
00:51:59
Like this kid was like. A 12 year old boy? Yeah. This kid was like, I know it's happening.
00:52:04
I mean, he's been he's been raised to be to be ready to be prince. He's probably a fucking smart kid.
00:52:09
Yeah. Right. and knows what happens with monarchies. You know? It happened a bunch.
00:52:16
Sure. Pretty standard stuff. Yeah. So there's reports that they're seeing playing around the tower,
00:52:23
but no recorded sightings of either of them after the summer of 1483. There was an attempt to rescue them, but it failed.
00:52:31
And it's at this point, the reason it failed is because they were already dead. That's what they think, is that the reason it failed is that they were already dead.
00:52:44
Other than their disappearance, there's no direct evidence that they were murdered and no, quote, reliable, well-informed, independent or impartial sources for the associated events.
00:52:54
So it's a speculation that they were murdered, but there's a lot of evidence as to it happening.
00:53:02
Well, yeah, because there's somebody that has a really good reason to murder them.
00:53:05
Very good. And they're never seen from again. Right. And also when you're the king, you can get all that shit taken care of and not have any evidence laying around.
00:53:13
Right. So jump to like more recently for unidentified bodies have been found, which are considered possibly connected with the events.
00:53:27
Let's see. OK, so the theory, the theory that I think is the most correct and seems to be the like, this is what everyone thinks it is.
00:53:34
So there's this guy named James Sir James Tyrell, who was an English knight who fought for the House of York on many occasions.
00:53:42
And he was acting as he was the loyal servant of Richard III. So he was arrested by Henry.
00:53:51
The. Just sounded out. How many The one one Seventh Henry the seventh forces in 1502 I so This is Dude please Okay In 1502 for supporting another Yorkist claim to the throne
00:54:07
So he's arrested and he was going to get executed and he was tortured. And he's like, yeah, I did it because Richard III told me to.
00:54:15
Really? He confesses to this guy named Thomas More. and Moore said that the princes
00:54:22
this guy told him they were smothered to death in their beds by two agents by this guy Tyrell and were then
00:54:29
Tyrell and then were then were buried quote at the stair foot neatly deep in the ground
00:54:36
under a great heap of stones but were later disintern and buried in a secret place. Ooh. Yeah.
00:54:49
They were under the guard of the Tower of London while they were there, which was controlled by Richard
00:54:54
III's men. And access to them, to the princes, was strictly limited by his instructions, which is like
00:55:02
that's a fact. Yeah. He could therefore have dispatched one of his retainers to murder the princes on his
00:55:08
behalf. But it's unlikely that they could have been murdered without his knowledge.
00:55:13
You know what I mean? He did it. These little fucking poor kids were. so in 1674 some workmen were remodeling the tower of london giving it a little
00:55:23
little makeover 16 something for 1674 okay they dug up a wooden box containing two small human
00:55:30
skeletons i know the bones were found buried 10 feet under the staircase uh leading to the chapel
00:55:37
of the white tower uh they were not the first children's skeletons found within the tower oh
00:55:44
Oh, no. What are you fucking doing in there? They did whatever they wanted. Sure.
00:55:49
The bones of two other children had been found in a chamber that had been walled up, which could have also been them.
00:55:56
So, like, you find two sets of two children's bones. Like, the chances are that one of them is going to be.
00:56:04
Yeah. Except Queen Elizabeth II has not granted the approval for DNA testing. She's like, nope.
00:56:11
Queen Elizabeth II is our current one? I think so. Sorry, I didn't mean it. No, yeah.
00:56:18
What does she care? I mean, it's going to look badly on them. Oh, it's too late.
00:56:26
Most people think they're lizard people. Don't they realize? Yeah, have you ever heard that theory?
00:56:31
No. David Icke? No. Oh, that's fascinating. What is it? That basically the most powerful and richest people on the planet are actually lizard people.
00:56:41
Oh, there was a last podcast on the left about that. Yeah, it's I haven't heard that.
00:56:46
But my friend Laura used to read all David Icke books and websites and then tell me what they said.
00:56:52
And she started out thinking it was funny. And then after a while, it got a little real.
00:56:56
And I was like, you need to stop reading that. Like she believed it. She just was reading a lot of it.
00:57:01
She's like submerged herself in the world a little much where it's basically once you suspend disbelief a little bit, then you can go, you know, then you can kind of.
00:57:10
believe what you know that everybody's kind of like a um they say that they're like these weird
00:57:16
they have the ability to change from lizards to people wow that's that's all like most royalty are
00:57:22
actually lizard people that's stupid it's a little heavy like why lizards i don't know maybe it's
00:57:30
because it's like you could see it like they're part alien or something okay i actually believe
00:57:35
alien more than lizard. Yeah. I don't know. Anyways, the end is that the bones were removed
00:57:43
and examined in 1933 and the archivist, the leading anatomist, he said that they concluded that the bones
00:57:55
belonged to two children around the correct ages for the princes. Oh. Yeah. That was in the 30s
00:58:00
that they did that? Oh, that's cool. But since then, they won't let them test them that's all that's the only word they want to hear about yeah you know what's funny is
00:58:10
we went to the tower of london my sister and i so did i uh but we had such bad jet lag oh that we
00:58:18
were trying to stay up till a normal hour so that when we went to sleep because we landed at like
00:58:22
nine in the morning yeah but for us it was like two in the morning so then it was like for us it
00:58:28
was like we're trying to stay up all night so we took all these tours so we walked through the
00:58:32
Tower of London. We did all this stuff, but neither of us can remember it because we were
00:58:36
like exhausted. And then we finally went to sleep at four o'clock and then we woke up at three in the morning and we had jet lag for like four days
00:58:44
while we were in England. It sucked. I did that too in places. If you don't do it right, you can really screw up like your
00:58:52
whole vacation. That's true. One of the only memories I have is like going to the aquarium that they have there, really awesome one, and petting a
00:59:00
little stingray that would they would come up to the sides of the tank like little dogs oh my god
00:59:06
cute but i was in love i mean of all the memories to have of lunch i could have done that in monterey
00:59:10
that's true totally insane anyhow we were i'm just saying the tower of london did not seem to
00:59:18
me to be the kind of place any kid would ever want to be no not a fun little hangout no not a good
00:59:23
summer camp. Well, that's 1500s. Next time, can we do a 70s one? I mean, this was a misstep.
00:59:35
I admit it. 100%. Were those okay? I feel like I'm going to edit out some of the stupider shit I
00:59:41
said. Look, you can edit whatever you want. But I think if anyone is coming here to learn,
00:59:48
they made a terrible mistake and also um yeah yeah i mean well let do like so your episode about or your murder about the chick who hands got fucking sliced off
01:00:11
Mary Vincent? Mary Vincent. Fucking crawling her stump way. Yep. That's like the most talked about one.
01:00:19
Right. So people like, gruesome shit. well and also I think it's just it's if it's a good story yeah it's a survivor story a survivor
01:00:28
story or something so insane like for me what I like is when it's something where you're like
01:00:33
I'm sorry what the fuck are you talking about like how is that possible in the human experience
01:00:39
yeah what depraved fuck uppiness or like crazy planning yeah should we do survivors next week
01:00:47
we can oh my god i know the one i want to do if you want to do survivors yeah let's do i survived
01:00:53
uh i'll tell you mine will be from and i survived i'm sure it will you're obsessed with that show
01:00:58
i this is when i tell people at parties have you told me don't tell me i don't know sometimes when
01:01:05
i can't think it i think part of this obsession is when i can't think of what to say i'll just
01:01:10
go into somebody else's tale of amazing survival you know lately when i'm at like a when i am short
01:01:15
of a conversation and uh i'll ask people their hometown murders you will yep do you get some good
01:01:21
ones sometimes people see it's funny how much how people just jump into the conversation like it's
01:01:28
normal yes which i really appreciate i do too and like i've been at like a you know around a whole
01:01:33
table of people and it's like awkward chit chat and then i'll and then i'll be like oh i'm from
01:01:38
arizona and i'm like oh were you there when that this thing happened yeah and then it just starts
01:01:42
It's just like fun conversation. Well, and also because people have such extreme reactions to it.
01:01:47
Either they're super into it or super repelled by it. Yeah. But it is a fun like, oh, I can't, if you guys are going to talk about this, I can't be here.
01:01:54
Right. Well, then go away. Yeah. That's exactly what I end up saying. Okay. This is where it comes out that I just don't do Roman numerals.
01:02:06
Yeah. I don't and I still can't and I won't and I don't care. I feel like after high school
01:02:13
this would have been the only situation you would have to use them unless I was like playing the Super Bowl
01:02:19
or something which I won't and don't but even if you're playing the Super Bowl you don't have to deal with those Roman New Rules
01:02:25
I don't have to tell people about what Super Bowl it is unless it's like if you're the graphics guy
01:02:31
for the network that does the Super Bowl but they just give you the information anyway
01:02:36
so I don't have to so don't worry about it So, hey, Graphics, Georgia, don't worry about it.
01:02:41
I've done okay with missing that day in class. Up until this Roman New York. I've done fine until now, and I'm still blushing.
01:02:50
Let's see, are there any case updates for this story from the 1500s? No case updates, but I will give some recommendations if people are into the story,
01:03:00
because it turns out that even a person who isn't interested in the past, I find the story fascinating.
01:03:04
So there's a book called The Princes in the Tower by a woman named Philippa Langley.
01:03:09
And she is the like amateur archaeologist who was able to locate the body of Richard III.
01:03:17
Okay. And there's a movie out. It's called The Lost King and it's fucking incredible.
01:03:22
So good. Yeah. So this woman who's just like endlessly fascinating also wrote a book.
01:03:27
And it's like kind of like a true crimey book about what happened to them because people still don't know.
01:03:33
And there's still all these like theories. So, I don't know, if you're into Buried Bones, I think pick up The Princes in the Tower by Philippa Langley.
01:03:40
Nice. That's okay. I like case updates that just turn into recommendations. Yeah.
01:03:44
Sure. And now we're going to listen to how we ended this episode. Friday night, Vince and I did nothing and sat at home and watched the O.J. Simpsons.
01:03:59
Yes. The new Simpsons. Yes. Documentary, the 30 for 30. which I haven't finished yet.
01:04:06
Don't even. I'm only on part four. And you and I texted and had some funny jokes about it.
01:04:11
Yes. And that's like, that was perfect. We had some wine and we had snacks and like,
01:04:17
that's like my, my perfect moment with cats surrounding us. Yeah. And, and fucked up murder.
01:04:24
I love that special. I was talking, I went to a party on Saturday night, last Saturday, and I was talking to my friend about that.
01:04:32
And I just kept saying to her, I'm so embarrassed. My reaction in 1995 or whenever that verdict came down, was it 95 or 94?
01:04:45
Yeah, 94, 95. I can't remember. But whenever it was, I just very much remember. I remember hearing like on the radio, on talk radio or whatever, the black reaction was like, good.
01:04:57
This is what we deserve. You know, it's only just. And I remember just thinking, this is crazy.
01:05:02
I don't understand what these people are talking about. And now it took 25 years practically.
01:05:09
And to now understand what they meant, it makes me embarrassed. Um, that like, that's what they're talking about when they talk about white privilege.
01:05:18
There are stories in that documentary I never heard before. I didn't know about that 12 year old girl that got shot in the back by the Korean store owner.
01:05:26
I didn't know about the woman who got shot on her front lawn over an energy, like a gas bill.
01:05:32
like there's all this news that i didn't know about that i like we just weren't privy like the
01:05:38
news was so different back then totally and and right i mean you think like racism you know not
01:05:44
in my lifetime so much better we don't we're not this yeah we're fucking horrible yes it's because
01:05:50
we because ultimately it you don know what you don know totally and a lot of people talk like when people when there the black lives matter um you know campaign and then there these other people going all lives matter where it like you you are missing the point
01:06:05
And what you're saying is as if you understand what these people are going through, you do not.
01:06:12
Your privilege is such that you have no idea. idea. It made me, even though I'm not at all racist and no one in my family is, and it's not,
01:06:21
you know, it's nothing I've ever encountered on my own, in my own life. It made me so embarrassed.
01:06:28
Yes. For. It's because we shouldn't, because if you don't know, then you shouldn't be going,
01:06:33
this is ridiculous. You know what I mean? Like it's that judgment of, of privilege. Yeah. That's
01:06:38
embarrassing to me because yeah, I always thought I was middle class, working class. Totally. My
01:06:42
parents are from ira both were raised by irish immigrants who are poor and bootstrapped and all
01:06:49
that kind of stuff so nobody has that kind of like i always look at that as like oh the one
01:06:53
percent and those people that don't understand whatever that's not us it absolutely is is you
01:06:59
if you haven't had the experience yeah and that that's but that's the brilliance of that documentary
01:07:04
series is people are legitimately having their eyes open totally i can't wait to finish it and
01:07:10
but it's it's heavy. I hear the fifth episode is insanely grisly because you see the bodies.
01:07:20
There's crime scene photos. Is that the first time they've ever been shown like legally and publicly?
01:07:26
I wonder. I'm not sure. Oh God, I don't want to see. It's apparently very graphic and upsetting.
01:07:31
I just remember hearing when I was like when it happened that I was the first time I ever
01:07:36
heard this and I've unfortunately heard it since that her neck was so slit that it was almost she
01:07:41
was almost beheaded yeah like that has stuck with me I mean seen it a couple heard it a couple read
01:07:48
it a couple times and other crimes since then yeah and it it gives me the chills it's so crazy
01:07:55
it's so crazy and the the weirdest part is that all of it like the entire story is surreally huge
01:08:03
like you just wouldn't anybody who hasn't seen this documentary you really have to see it and
01:08:09
the beginning the first episode is really all about oj and his football career which i was like
01:08:13
boring but then it makes you understand who he was and why it mattered because i didn't care
01:08:18
about football right so i didn't understand what a huge person i saw him in the naked gun
01:08:23
and i was like he's that actor yeah but like even him getting come i was just so interesting
01:08:28
what it meant for him to be as huge as he was right and he was one of the first people he was
01:08:34
one of the first black men that was presented as um like a commercial aspirational figure yeah
01:08:41
which had never happened before for neither for not just for black people no for everybody yeah
01:08:47
at large it's so fascinating uh yeah highly recommended Mm-hmm. Crazy. Yeah. Well, I tried to end it on a positive note,
01:09:01
and then I ended up talking about fucking up The Simpsons again. It was this episode, as you know,
01:09:11
we name these titles kind of randomly ourselves, wordplay style, which got very exhausting after a while.
01:09:20
So these days, we just pick a phrase from the episode and name it that. People that listen to this podcast are like, we know.
01:09:29
Why aren't you? It's in case you're listening with your mom and it's her first time listening and you're on your road trip and shit.
01:09:35
And she's like, why are we talking about titles that's already got a title? You have to know.
01:09:39
We have to explain to your ghost mom every time. So Alejandra pulled some new ones from this episode.
01:09:47
One is crossing paths in a sauna. Oh, that sounds so awkward. We're talking about us seeing each other the night before at a comedy show where there was no air conditioning.
01:09:58
It looked like we were crossing paths in a sauna. One of my favorite, one of my favorite sayings.
01:10:04
I didn't make this up. I got it from a girl I followed on LiveJournal a million years ago.
01:10:08
And Vince actually has, someone made shirts of these and Vince has one. Coochie twinge of shame.
01:10:13
Yeah. Coochie twinge is just like, you guys, you know what it means when you cross paths in a sauna.
01:10:17
It's awkward. You know what a fucking coochie twinge is when you get so excited about something or horrified by something.
01:10:21
I don't need to explain it to your mom. I remember when you said it and then you were like, we got to make shirts.
01:10:26
And I was like, absolutely not. It's terrible. I don't say it very often anymore.
01:10:31
But it's almost like the underground phrase. Yeah. And, you know, you love it. Also, there's me or you or Elvis, which is you figuring out who goes first.
01:10:42
And you said it's either me or you or Elvis. Good boy. That would have been a good one.
01:10:46
Yeah. Yeah. We can pick that one. Here you are, Elvis. Okay. Well, thanks you guys for listening to another episode of Rewind.
01:10:53
Yeah. And if you want to start listening to this, if you don't want to go all the way back and listen to all of our old episodes
01:11:00
where we, I mean, slop around. Bullshit. But, you know, or you just, whatever. Stay sexy.
01:11:10
I don't know. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Hey there, it's Ryan Seacrest for Safeway.
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