00:00:00
This is exactly right. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
00:00:10
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
00:00:20
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
00:00:27
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:37
Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Bombs. So I'm Leanne.
00:00:42
Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:00:46
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
00:00:52
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
00:00:56
With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
00:01:03
Well, then you got them. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:09
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
00:01:16
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.
00:01:23
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
00:01:31
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:56
Hello. And welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstart. That's Karen Kilgareff.
00:02:04
We say this every time. You guys should know this by now. Say it along with us. But put your name in.
00:02:10
In both parts. Oh, I love that. That's Becky Milligan. And that is Clarissa Streeter.
00:02:17
Knows it all. That's not a name. Yeah. Teaches you all. What's the Clarissa show from?
00:02:20
Clarissa Explains It All. Explains It All. Oh, I loved that show. I was too old.
00:02:24
Yeah, you were. I was the right age for that. Did she explain it all to you? She explained it all to me. She had great fashion sense.
00:02:31
And she really, what would she explain on a weekly basis? Like how it socially? Yeah, or like moms are tough, but in the end they like have your back or like, it's tough when bullies or whatever. You know, it was like that kind of thing.
00:02:45
Okay. But it wasn't like corny. No. It's like Daria kind of, or it's just like, cool.
00:02:50
When I hear something weird and creepy. Uh-oh. Maybe a little sad. About me or you?
00:02:54
Neither of us. Okay, great. Just that happened to me. Oh, it's weird. Okay, this counts as being about you.
00:03:01
Okay. Okay. So when we got back from the fire after evacuating, we were home a couple days.
00:03:07
Everything was weird out, you know, like the sky was weird and there was ash everywhere.
00:03:12
It was just like a creepy time. The city was like empty. And so I'm walking Cookie on our lawn, our front lawn, and I look down a little further up.
00:03:22
there's like a plastic bag on the ground on our lawn. And I approach it and it looks kind of like just a baggy, like a Coke, like a big bag,
00:03:32
you know, like someone had dropped like a brick of Coke. Yeah. Half a brick. Sure.
00:03:35
Not a ton. And just so you don't have an idea. Sure. In today's money. A brick is not enough.
00:03:43
Right. Brick's too much. It was like half a brick. Brick's too much. Yeah. Half is not.
00:03:46
Okay. Yeah. So I approach it and I really, it's like messy and I realize it's cremaine.
00:03:52
Like it's clearly cremains of something. There's a sticker on it and there's teeth marks in it.
00:04:00
And so what we figured out is that while these fires were raging, a coyote must have dug up some sweet person's sweet pet that passed away.
00:04:10
No. Carried it to our house and left it on our lawn. So that was fucking, this is like during when the fires were happening.
00:04:17
So everything is horrible. Yes. So that was like, it felt like an ominous sign. Absolutely.
00:04:21
But I could kind of make out the stuff on the sticker that was clearly from the place where the animal had been cremated.
00:04:30
So you're positive it was an animal? Yes, because the name was Frida. It just said Frida.
00:04:36
Are you positive it's not a person? It says guardian animal aftercare on the sticker.
00:04:41
Sorry, I just needed the confirmation. And it looks really old, so you can't make that out.
00:04:46
So it looks like it's been buried for a while. And so I could kind of make out, this is me doing my fucking best sleuthing ever, by the way.
00:04:52
Sure. I could kind of make out the name of the person. And so we called the place that, with the animal, they called the place on the sticker.
00:04:59
And they're like, we're so old school. We just have like files. It's probably from a long time ago.
00:05:04
So we tried, we asked our neighbors, like, do you know this person's name? And they don't.
00:05:09
And I just want to return it to them. Because like, if I came out, like, let's say I had buried one of my beloved pets in my yard and it was a fucking dug up.
00:05:17
so they might not live there anymore, but I think I should give them, give them a new burial, right?
00:05:22
You could do that. That'd be really nice. Yeah. Or you could take it in the middle of the night
00:05:26
and throw it over someone else's fence. Let them have a fucking problem. There's options, I'm saying.
00:05:32
I mean, I have video of the coyotes playing in that area that night. So like that didn't already happen.
00:05:38
Thank God. You're positive someone just went like that over a fence. I'm pretty sure.
00:05:42
That's really disturbing. Isn't that? And quite something. I told, but, But it's also, like, sweet in a weird way.
00:05:50
Well, I'm glad your coyote story is sweet, because mine, they almost killed Blossom.
00:05:54
That right Just recently I feel like the coyotes are really under the gun Oh I saw one today on the street I mean everybody got driven down because of the fires Like it is not good in terms of poor you know actual wild animals
00:06:07
Yeah. But it's also not good in terms of little white terriers just trying to act like they're in charge of their domain.
00:06:15
My dog, Blossom, at five in the morning, needed to go out because she could hear the coyotes.
00:06:20
And then she got bit. And it was crazy because this is the same Blossom who survived a killer bee sting.
00:06:27
That's right. She has been up against it, this dog. She's an indoor dog. I know.
00:06:33
I think so. I think she's becoming convinced. It could have been like if she were a little smaller, they would have carried her off.
00:06:40
Entirely. Fucking thank God. Also, she makes this insane sound, which is what happened when my cousin Stevie's dog, Betty, attacked her.
00:06:47
She makes a sound that scared everybody for like an hour. Like a scream. It's a scream. And then she gets away. So she's kind of, I respect her.
00:06:57
Absolutely. Just start screaming. We've talked about it a lot of times. A lot. You can apologize for screaming. You can't apologize for having done nothing when you should have been screaming.
00:07:06
That's right. You really landed on something there. So I'm going to rebury it. I'll let you know what happens. I'm going to have like a little ceremony.
00:07:13
In your own yard? Yeah. That's nice. Just to like, since we can't find the person.
00:07:17
Yeah. Give Frida her final resting place. Sweet little Frida. Frida. Sounds like a Pomeranian name, doesn't it?
00:07:24
Yeah, it does. Or Shih Tzu. Yeah. Frida just running that house. One of those dogs that runs the house, for sure.
00:07:31
Barking all day for no reason. Or she's like a real nice, kind of like one of those, like a chow German shepherd mix.
00:07:39
The fluffy one? Yes, where she's kind of like fluffy and... God, this dog. Tiptoeing.
00:07:44
Who is this dog? Maybe she's a Persian cat. We don't fucking know. Oh, that's true.
00:07:48
What if Frida's a boa constrictor? and we're like so sweet get that out of my fucking house
00:07:54
now so it's just been sitting I walk by it every day it's just been sitting on my like
00:07:58
lawn table just like problem to be solved yeah gotta do something about that oh I know
00:08:05
so hard to lose a pet I know sorry that was no I mean it's interesting at least it's interesting
00:08:12
it's not me saying yes I'm still watching Seinfeld season 8 it just gets better and better
00:08:20
every episode Are you watching the show called Apple Cider Vinegar? It's on Netflix.
00:08:24
Perfect. I can switch right over from Seinfeld. It's like they'll be right next to each other.
00:08:27
Love it. Oh, my God. It's a true story. It's a dramatization about a gal who just completely one of those lied about having cancer on the Internet and made a career out of like her saving her own life through nutrition.
00:08:41
Yeah. And it was all a scam. But it is a true story. It's a true story. Wow. I have to watch that.
00:08:46
Oh, my God. And those ones are my favorite because I do feel like it's like Scamanda, which if listener, if you haven't listened to that podcast, please stop this one immediately and run over there.
00:08:56
Because these stories of people like that are so I could all day long. I want to hear them.
00:09:01
They're just like, how did you you started off? You had a real threat to your life.
00:09:06
It traumatized you in some way. And that but then also something else happened to you.
00:09:11
And the way they describe it and this show does that, it's like you kind of feel empathy.
00:09:14
This girl's clearly like, of course, does monstrous things, but you understand her initial motivations.
00:09:21
Yeah. And that's just what you need. But then after that, it's just a whole fucking mess.
00:09:25
I can't imagine what it feels like to have love just outpoured towards you when you say I have this thing.
00:09:31
Right. They show that. It's like bananas. Yeah. Ooh, apple cider vinegar. Yeah. Check.
00:09:36
I'm on that. Should we get to something upbeat and funny? Because we got some letters.
00:09:41
Right. Or emails, one would call them. Handwritten missives. Longhand, long-thorn missives about how I covered the Tenerife Airport disaster last week in episode 467.
00:09:54
And we had all kinds of questions for pilots and airplane people. And so I guess we got some answers.
00:09:59
I'm so frightened. Okay, I'll go first. Okay. This is called I Promise Pilots Are Friendlier Than You Think.
00:10:05
Hello, all. I was listening to the latest episode when Georgia covered the Tenerife Airport disaster.
00:10:09
It's a devastating case we all study extensively as pilots. And like George said, the air traffic phraseology has now been standardized to avoid such an accident from ever happening.
00:10:19
That's great. That's good to know. Yes. But Karen, it says, I promise we're far more patient than we seem.
00:10:25
Because you said, what did you say? I don't know. It's something like, I can't remember.
00:10:31
You said, I think pilots would have no patience for me. Yeah. Oh, that's right. That's right, right?
00:10:36
Yeah. Like they're just so organized and calm and by the book. They have next steps.
00:10:40
They don't want to talk to you about your. My little stories. Right. I promise we're far more patient than we seem.
00:10:46
We're not all engineers. And as much as we take our jobs very seriously and communication is kept to the essential during critical stages of flight, I've yet to meet a fellow pilot who wouldn't talk your ear off given the opportunity.
00:10:57
Ooh, neat. That's nice. Okay. Flying is an absolute privilege. And most of us are so humbled by the fact that we get to experience it, let alone do it for a living.
00:11:05
Wow. Oh, and then it says, only 6% of pilots worldwide are women. I have had the honor of being taught by some incredibly badass female pilots, and I am proud to have joined the ranking.
00:11:15
We always need more women in aviation and STEM in general. A little shout out to the young women listening.
00:11:20
You can do anything. Show those boys how it's done. Yes. Yes. Thank you for everything you do.
00:11:26
You've kept me company during my many hours commuting to and from airports for training.
00:11:31
A welcome reprieve when I need to switch off learning mode, SSDGM, N. N, thank you.
00:11:37
How great is that? N was like, okay, I'll get into this conversation with you. And all young women.
00:11:43
And while I'm here. Let me teach you a thing. Which is very meaningful. Because that's a person, N, who is a constant handler of shit.
00:11:52
May we all be. Up there with the greatest All right Well I have one too I don know what it says Alejandra gave us both one to read to each other Exactly With no instructions Here mine The subject line is can confirm pilots have no patience for you Karen
00:12:08
Then it says, lighthearted, two-minute read. I love it. Karen, on the last episode, 467, you said, I think a pilot would have no patience for my personality.
00:12:17
Oh, there it is. There's the quote. Perfect. And I can confirm you're probably right, because I'm a Karen, and my dad, who was a pilot for 30 years,
00:12:24
I just didn't put up with my bullshit either. It sounds like someone else's firefighter father named Jim.
00:12:31
There's a lot of these dads out there, and I'm glad we're finally talking about it.
00:12:34
They're no bullshit dads. My dad, Captain Craig, flew from major domestic airlines before and after 9-11 and is a real hard ass in the best way.
00:12:43
You'll be happy to know, Georgia, that pilots in general are very meticulous people and not willing to be rushed through procedure for anyone.
00:12:50
Got it. For example, my dad does a walk around inspection of the car before he gets in.
00:12:55
All caps, every single time. Oh, my God. My dad does the op. When he's leaving the car, he checks every door handle.
00:13:03
Oh, yeah. Three or four times. Just lock it down. Oh, dad. OK. Even when just leaving the grocery store after running a quick errand and has very rigid rules about safety.
00:13:13
And then in quotes like talking, this car is not moving until everyone has their seatbelts on.
00:13:18
A hundred percent. As you can imagine, little teenage Karen, me, and Captain Craig didn't always get along so well.
00:13:24
But now that I'm an adult and he isn't teaching me standard operating procedures for making my bed and debriefing me about Friday night parties, we have a great relationship.
00:13:33
Oh, my God. Debriefing me about Friday night parties. He also makes me feel much calmer about flying.
00:13:38
I frequently text him when I see scary plane stuff in the news, and he is the first to reassure me that flying is very safe and gives me the inside scoop on any positive changes happening in airline safety.
00:13:49
Stay sexy and don't BS around pilots. Jana. Jana, can we get your dad's phone number so we can also text him when things happen?
00:13:56
Could we start a segment with Captain Craig called Air Mail? And he just like maybe every week sends us an email that says, hey, I listened to the last episode.
00:14:04
This is what I would have done differently. Totally. But here's also why you shouldn't worry and everything's going to be okay.
00:14:10
Yes. I want reassurance too. Not just about air flight or anything, just general Captain Craig stuff in the world.
00:14:16
Debrief me and inform me. And let's have some Friday night parties. And calm me down and we'll be there too.
00:14:21
Of course, Anne is invited as always. Anne was here first. That was amazing. That was great.
00:14:27
I love it. You guys always write in when you have thoughts and feelings. We might not read them, but we appreciate it.
00:14:32
Thanks, Alejandro. That was so good. All right. Should we talk about the network?
00:14:36
Yes. Definitely. We have a podcast network, Did You Know? It's called Exactly Right Media, and here's what's going on.
00:14:42
This week on Bananas, Kurt and Scotty are joined by comedian Sashir Zamata to talk about the world's most bizarre and hilarious news stories. She is so freaking funny.
00:14:51
She's so cool. Over on this podcast, We'll Kill You, Erin and Erin go on a deadly deep dive into the Death Cap Mushroom.
00:14:58
Ooh, God, they're good. Yeah, they're good. Speaking of toxic, Bridger welcomes actor and comedian Vinnie Thomas on I Said No Gifts.
00:15:04
I have to say, that was just purely an Allison joke that I could not stop laughing at.
00:15:09
Vinny Thomas is one of the best comedians around. Of course, we love Bridger Weininger.
00:15:14
Nobody's toxic. Nobody, but everybody. And despite Bridger's explicit instructions, Vinny arrives with an unsolicited gift.
00:15:20
See what happens next by listening to I Said No Gifts. That's right. When you're done with that, you can go over to Rewind with Karen in Georgia.
00:15:26
That's us. Hi. This week, we traveled back to September 8th, 2016, recapping episode 33 called What About Mimi?
00:15:32
where we covered the Jane Mixer case alongside the co-ed killer. And we also covered the unbelievable survival story of Jennifer Morey.
00:15:40
So in honor of the Rewind episodes, we've stocked one of our most iconic t-shirts.
00:15:46
It's one of our earliest. Our good friend Kat Solon's t-shirt design. Here's the thing.
00:15:51
Fuck everyone. I meant to wear the sweatshirt because I stole one because it is my favorite design.
00:15:57
In the merch meeting. But I couldn't find it because I think it's in the wash. Oh, no.
00:16:01
It's available as a mug or crewneck sweatshirt. It's a great way to tell all the parents at Pick Up what you really think. And it's inspired by episode number 28 of Rewind and Karen's telling of the Terry Jo DuPero survival story.
00:16:16
Incredible. So get that merch, myfavoritemurder.com. It's such a good little picture of a little blonde girl sitting on a raft by herself.
00:16:23
It's unbelievable. It's a total fan fave. Just the greatest. I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, host of the Wicked Words podcast.
00:16:34
Each week I sit down with the true crime writers behind some of the most compelling true crime stories
00:16:39
and discuss their years spent investigating and why it still matters. He sees his father coming out of the woods
00:16:47
with his hands over his face and he knows something happened. His father just grabs him and says,
00:16:53
she's gone, she's gone. These are the cases that leave survivors, families, and the journalists who cover them changed forever.
00:17:03
Working in national television, it'll push you to your limits, and you'll end up doing things you never thought you'd do.
00:17:09
You know, you look back at it and you're like, I can't believe that really happened.
00:17:14
Join me and step inside the investigation. New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:17:20
Listen to Wicked Words on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:17:50
heart radio app Search Joy 101 and listen now Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS How much you weigh Wanda Right now I about 130 I at 183 We should race No I want to leave here with my original hips
00:18:05
On the podcast, The Matchup with Aaliyah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.
00:18:10
On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ Claressa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes
00:18:15
to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard, the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike.
00:18:19
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search The Matchup with Aaliyah and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network.
00:18:30
All right, you go first this week. All right, I'll go first this week. Okay. This is just one of those awful stories that we hear all the time.
00:18:38
It's one of those unfair stories about someone doing a bad thing, and then instead of taking responsibility for it, doubling down and trying to evade that problem via murder.
00:18:48
Like Selena's story that we told on Rewind recently. Yeah. You know? This is the eternal human problem. Everybody does it. It's not to the person. It is a human condition of the shame you feel when you do a bad thing or a wrong thing. So you're like, I can't feel this shame anymore. So what I'm going to do is give somebody else the shame. And that'll work. The problem is it never does.
00:19:12
It doesn't. So today's story is about a murder that rocked New York City right in the middle of the summer of 2020. Remember that? When everyone is still reeling from the early days of COVID. So I don't remember this because I think that there was just so much going on in the news.
00:19:27
The main sources for this story are reporting in the New York Times and a really beautiful tribute to the victim written by his sister, Ruby Soleil.
00:19:36
The rest of the sources can be found in the show notes. So it's July 14th, 2020, and we're in the Lower East Side of New York City, which, as you know, these days is cool.
00:19:45
It's a desirable high-end neighborhood. A 30-year-old woman is riding the elevator up to her cousin's apartment.
00:19:52
Her family had asked her to check on him since they hadn't been able to get in touch with him.
00:19:56
Always bad. The cousin that she's going to check on is named Fahim Saleh, and he's 33 years old. Fahim is an entrepreneur and has found really great success with several startups. You know this one?
00:20:08
The most recent is a motorcycle delivery app that's widely used in Nigeria. He was born in 1986 in Saudi Arabia, where his father was a professor at the time. The family is originally from Bangladesh.
00:20:22
Then they moved to America when Fahim was four years old. And then it's the classic struggling financially for years while Fahim's father finished his Ph.D. so he could make a life for his children. That classic immigrant story wanted a better education, better opportunities for their children and the lengths and struggles they go to achieve that.
00:20:45
So Fahim is a born engineer and is always tinkering with things from an early age.
00:20:50
He's one of those kids. My brother was totally like, you get a clock and you take it apart immediately to see how it works.
00:20:56
And then you put it back together. Yeah. I was not one of those kids. Me either.
00:21:00
He learns to code and begins launching little tech startups in his teens. Wow. The first one is called Monkey Do and it's, quote, jokes, pranks, fake poop, fart spray, and more for teenagers.
00:21:13
wait for sale yeah it's the it's yeah it's a prank store online yeah that's okay can i just
00:21:22
say that the magic shop it was a magic and pet shop in my hometown yeah the pet stop and they
00:21:28
magic and pets magic and pets and they sold all that stuff in there so there was like birds and
00:21:35
nothing i think the guy had a monkey for a little while adrian what the fuck adrian and my sister
00:21:39
and I talk about the monkey a lot because it was, yeah. But then basically during their late 70s, early 80s,
00:21:45
they need to kind of expand just like they're not making all their money on selling like a lizard once a week.
00:21:50
Right. And so they start getting, remember those rubber masks that like you could get a Reagan mask?
00:21:54
Yes. And they're very lifelike. Yes. Like they just started all these rubber masks.
00:21:59
Like pranks and jokes. Pranks and the gum. And my next door neighbor was a real trickster, 12-year-old.
00:22:04
Yeah. And so he was always like, would you like a piece of gum you've never seen the brand of?
00:22:08
Right. and so that is like i just love that because that is that age and that like what's what's
00:22:14
necessary right now a stink bomb right what do i want to create and make for other people
00:22:19
this is exactly it garlic gum right and this and it does it's a really good indication of his
00:22:24
personality because this is exactly what he's like he's bright and funny he's carefree he's
00:22:29
curious and very smart obviously yeah and the website performs really well and he actually
00:22:34
monetizes it with ads. And this is when he's 13. So this is like the late 90s when shit like this.
00:22:41
We didn't no one knew to do stuff like this yet. And a 13 year old is coding himself. Like,
00:22:45
I think his parents were freaked out when he got his first check. And they're like,
00:22:48
what is this from? And then he like showed them and they're like, all right. My business.
00:22:52
My business. Welcome. At 13. Yeah. So amazingly, Fahim makes enough money through these kinds of ventures to put
00:22:58
himself through college. Wow. So that American dream his parents had paid off. It's already happening in the house. Yeah.
00:23:04
Yeah. After college, he finds more success in the prank space with a playful website for generating prank calls.
00:23:10
So clearly he likes to have fun. But also like tapping into a niche where he's like, what are me and all my friends truly passionate about?
00:23:18
Tricking people. Prank calls, tricking. Like it is that thing of like find a need and fill it.
00:23:23
Yep. Totally. So he did that. So good. Fahim takes the money he earns from this venture.
00:23:28
He wants to now steer away as getting a little older from the prank world into more serious ventures.
00:23:32
So then he completely pivots and does a 180. Now he's like, look, I want to give other people the opportunity that my parents gave
00:23:41
me by moving to the US and getting an education. I want to give that to other people.
00:23:45
He just completely pivots from this prank world and becoming this like altruistic person.
00:23:50
He wants to give other people the opportunity that his parents gave him. And so he finds enormous success with a ride app based in Bangladesh and then with the
00:24:00
an app called Gokana, which is a Nigerian motorcycle delivery app. And it gives people
00:24:05
in Nigeria and all these people so many opportunities that they didn't have. His company later stated, quote, he believed young Nigerians are extremely bright and talented
00:24:15
individuals who would flourish if just given the right opportunity. So the Saleh family is just
00:24:21
obviously bursting with pride over Fahim, and he's known to be particularly kind and generous.
00:24:26
So he's 33 years old and he's close to his family. He had recently gotten his new grown-up apartment in the Lower East Side.
00:24:34
He's also recently gotten a dog, which is a Pomsky named Layla, who he adores. Just looks like a little husky.
00:24:42
It's so cute. And there's photos of him with the dog, like smiling. He's just this, like, beautiful, bright smile, open face, kind eyes.
00:24:51
He's just this, like, clearly beautiful person. Still, despite being an adult, Fahim's father checks in with him every day to make sure he's remembering to eat.
00:24:59
Because like people like my brother who are obsessed with computers and tinkering, they'll just work through the night and we'll forget to eat.
00:25:05
My mom used to have to take my brother's keyboard, computer keyboard with her to work in the morning so my brother would go to school.
00:25:10
This is like elementary school. So Fahim's apartment is in a small luxury condo building with only seven units.
00:25:18
There's no doorman. And there's only one apartment on each floor. And it's the kind where the elevator opens to the apartment instead of like a hallway.
00:25:25
And you need a key to select your particular floor in the elevator. So when Fahim's cousin gets off the elevator in his apartment and takes a few steps in, she makes just the absolute most horrific discovery you can imagine.
00:25:39
This story is so awful. And I definitely remember reading about it during quarantine and having it be that kind of very surreal and very kind of isolated experience of like taking it all in and just awful.
00:25:54
And the headlines that they used were particularly horrible. And that's one of the things his sister says in this tribute she wrote for him online. You can read online that she's flying across country to identify her brother. And these grisly headlines are all she sees on her computer.
00:26:10
Was it New York Post? Of course. Yeah. Yeah. Because the cousin finds Fahim's torso on his living room floor as she walks in.
00:26:20
She flees the apartment, calls the police, and when they arrive, the police find Fahim's head and limbs in a garbage bag.
00:26:26
They also find an electric saw still plugged into the wall, and they find cleaning supplies.
00:26:31
And it looks like the scene has already been significantly cleaned up, but it looks like someone's in the middle of cleaning up the scene.
00:26:37
So Fahim's family is very close knit and they're absolutely obviously destroyed by this news. And this is the summer of 2020. So because of COVID restrictions, Ruby has to identify Fahim's body from a picture. And she just didn't want her parents to have to do it. So she agrees. And she writes, quote,
00:26:56
I began to caress his face on the computer screen with my index finger as tears poured down my cheeks.
00:27:01
I just wanted to tell him, I'm so sorry, Fahim. I'm so sorry, Fahim. My poor, sweet brother.
00:27:07
My heart. The medical examiner finds that Fahim's cause of death was from multiple stab wounds to the neck and torso.
00:27:15
Again, Fahim's building has no doorman, but there are security cameras in all the common areas.
00:27:19
So when the police look back at this footage, they see Fahim returning to the building on July 12th after going out for a run.
00:27:26
And then a man in a black suit wearing a black N95 mask and black gloves, who appears to be already inside the building when Fahim walks in, follows him into the elevator.
00:27:37
And when the elevator doors open into Fahim's apartment, the man in the suit uses a taser to subdue him and then drags him into the apartment.
00:27:46
At first, at least one police source tells the press he believes this to be a hired hitman.
00:27:52
They believe that this person was still in the process of trying to get Fahim's body out of the apartment the next day when his cousin came over to check on him.
00:27:58
But the impression that this was the work of a professional quickly changes when police realized that shortly after the murder, the killer had used one of Fahim's credit cards to take an Uber to a nearby Home Depot to buy extra cleaning supplies.
00:28:12
surveillance video from the elevator shows the man coming back to the apartment with this equipment
00:28:18
on july 14th the day fahim's cousin would later come by the footage shows him vacuuming inside the
00:28:24
elevator and i didn't know this but he's vacuuming inside the elevator because there's a chip that's
00:28:29
deployed when a taser goes off that identifies the taser oh like a little chip did you know that
00:28:36
no i did not isn't that wild yeah i mean that makes sense right it's like it's a weapon someone
00:28:41
needs to go be able to go and find like right what where it was where it happened totally it's a
00:28:47
weapon it's pretty brilliant then after the vacuuming he disappears into Fahim's apartment
00:28:52
to begin cleaning the scene and dismembering the body and then while he's doing this it turns out
00:28:57
that the battery in the saw runs out and that's why the murderer left to get a new to go to home
00:29:04
depot to get new battery and I by the grace of God somehow this is the point that Fahim's cousin
00:29:09
comes into the apartment to check on him because what would have happened if she had come in any
00:29:15
sooner? If the battery hadn't died? You know, I mean, it's like it's a horrible situation. But
00:29:21
you know, to look at one positive thing that that didn't happen. Yeah. Thank God. Yeah.
00:29:26
So then police learn something that quickly makes the whole investigation fall into place.
00:29:31
They figure out that Fahim's former assistant, a 25 year old named Tyrese Haspel, had resigned
00:29:38
the previous year. He did so right before Fahim realized that Tyrese had stolen $35,000 from him
00:29:46
by setting up a bogus company and embezzling funds through payments to that fake company.
00:29:52
Tyrese had originally been hired to keep Fahim personal finances in order so he had access to all this information And after learning about the Feth Fahim confronted him and then actually declined to press charges and said he wanted to work out
00:30:06
a repayment plan with Tyrese. That was the kind of person he was. He was very generous and he was
00:30:13
willing to like work with him. Yeah. So he wouldn't get in trouble. Well, he probably knew him as a
00:30:18
friend. Yeah. I mean, that's a very close relationship. Totally. What Fahim didn't realize
00:30:23
or what he was possibly about to find out in July of 2020 was that Tyrese had actually continued stealing from him
00:30:30
in a separate scheme even after he didn't work for him any longer. In fact, Tyrese repaid Fahim
00:30:36
with Fahim's own stolen money from the second scheme. Yeah. This one involved fake PayPal charges.
00:30:43
Tyrese had actually stolen an additional $400,000 from Fahim. Wow. So in 2020, Tyrese had been becoming afraid that Fahim was about to discover that additional theft, which was obviously much larger and probably was going to get him in legal trouble and had been plotting for months to kill him to prevent getting caught.
00:31:06
They find that he had made two other attempts in the recent past to kill Fahim. Whoa.
00:31:11
Yeah. But he didn't go through with them. Not that he would have noticed. Once the police uncovered these two schemes, they realized Tyrese is the man from the surveillance videos and he's arrested on July 17th.
00:31:23
So just a couple they went after that quick. Just a couple of days later, he's arrested at an Airbnb in Soho, which is about 10 blocks from Fahim's apartment.
00:31:31
And according to the New York D.A., Tyrese had started working on the plot that he went through with about a month in advance.
00:31:38
In June of 2020, he bought contractor bags, a Swiffer mop and the battery operated saw.
00:31:44
He also contacted a real estate broker asking to tour a vacant apartment across the street from Fahim's.
00:31:50
And somehow he was able to make a copy of the key to that apartment and installed a Nest camera so he could track Fahim's movements from across the street in the apartment.
00:32:00
That seems really advanced. I know. In terms of this kind of planning, it's clearly not a crime of passion.
00:32:07
Right. Clearly not somebody like you snapped because someone was so awful to you.
00:32:12
Right. It's just like very methodical. But also not a professional killer. So it's also very more methodical than you'd think it would be.
00:32:20
So then on July 13th, Tyrese followed another resident into Fahim's building at 830 a.m.
00:32:25
and hid in the package room waiting for Fahim to leave and then return from his run.
00:32:29
So after the murder, he took an Uber to Jersey City, getting rid of some of the evidence in trash cans there.
00:32:35
And he returned the next day to finish cleaning up the apartment and to dispose of Fahim's body.
00:32:40
And that's when he ran out of the battery for the saw. So when he came back from getting the battery, he saw the police outside the apartment and fled.
00:32:48
And then he went through that night with lavish plans he had made for his girlfriend's birthday party that he was throwing.
00:32:56
Wow. Like just pivoted and went through a party. Yeah. She didn't know what was going on.
00:33:00
Sorry, doesn't it just thinking about it now because that happened so often where it's like the crime scene's there and then the killer comes back for whatever reason.
00:33:09
Doesn't it feel like, well, the police are still there having discovered a crime scene?
00:33:13
that they should be posting people like a block and two blocks away to be tracking every single person that comes and immediately goes away.
00:33:20
Or just have a stakeout and not immediately like lie in. The Nest camera up in the old Airbnb.
00:33:27
Right. No, that's a really good point. It just or should be in the future because it seems like this is a thing that happens.
00:33:33
Yeah, that's a really good point. So Therese is charged with first degree murder, grand larceny and burglary, among other charges.
00:33:40
he's found guilty on all charges in June of 2024. And in September of 2024, this past September,
00:33:46
he's sentenced to at least 40 years in prison. Fahim's family are, of course, still absolutely
00:33:52
devastated by the loss of their son and brother. Fahim's sister in her tribute writes that,
00:33:58
quote, sometimes it still doesn't feel real that Fahim is gone. And sometimes it feels too
00:34:03
precisely like the cruel, heinous and unbearable reality that it is, letting me see nothing but
00:34:09
darkness and feel nothing but piercing pain in every quadrant of my heart. End quote.
00:34:15
And that is the story of the senseless, greed-fueled murder of Fahim Saleh, a self-made, brilliant,
00:34:22
kind and forgiving young man whose family will never be the same. God. I know. Also, I only knew about that story up until a point because you're right when it broke.
00:34:33
It was like this awful thing. And then it was like, and then here's another bigger, scarier, awful thing.
00:34:41
And yeah. And it was such a quick turnaround, too. It's like they got him immediately and then it was just waiting for the trial.
00:34:48
Yeah. Good job. Thank you. That was really good. Thank you. Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge.
00:34:58
That's where we begin. For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects. They finally admit, we're here to take your children.
00:35:07
The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation.
00:35:13
For others, it's surviving the unthinkable. As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air,
00:35:21
many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were going to die then.
00:35:25
The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
00:35:31
We talk to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it, and what came next.
00:35:38
And on our off-record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
00:35:44
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
00:35:49
Listen to The Knife on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:35:53
Joy is essential and it also elusive But now there a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence Joy 101 It a new podcast hosted by me Hoda Kotb
00:36:07
If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
00:36:14
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
00:36:23
you know the famous author Roald Dahl he thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG but did you know he was a spy
00:36:30
neither did I you can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl
00:36:37
all episodes are out now was this before he wrote his stories? it must have been
00:36:41
what? okay I don't think that's true I'm telling you the guy was a spy binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl
00:36:49
now on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts Well, I'm going to tell a horrible story as well.
00:37:01
Okay. This is how we do it. Yeah. But mine is definitely very, very different than yours.
00:37:06
Okay. And also you might remember it's from 2005 and it was a bit of a cultural moment, at least in Northern California where I was.
00:37:16
You couldn't get away from this story for a little while. and recently our writer Alison Agosti reminded me of it
00:37:23
and she sent me this article that basically we'll talk about at the end that started this where I was like, oh, I have to cover this.
00:37:31
I completely forgot about it. What is it? So it's March 22, 2005. Okay. And I'm just going to set the scene for you.
00:37:38
Please. President George W. Bush is waging war in Afghanistan and Iraq. Yeah. Martha Stewart has just completed her prison sentence for insider trading
00:37:46
and the Hilary Swank boxing movie Million Dollar Baby wins Best Picture at the Academy Awards.
00:37:52
Just put yourself back there. What a year. I had the tiniest bangs you've ever seen.
00:37:57
Oh, I mean. Just little tiny bangs. Oh, I think I was out of baby bangs phase only because I had stopped drinking.
00:38:04
Meanwhile, over in San Jose, California, something very gruesome is unfolding. It's just before 7.30 p.m.
00:38:12
and a woman is seated in the dining room at a Wendy's ready to enjoy some of their fresh, hot chili for dinner.
00:38:18
She picks up her spoon, dips it into the bowl, and then takes what will be the most consequential bite of food in her entire life.
00:38:26
As she begins to chew her mouth full of chili, she describes feeling something, quote, crunchy in her mouth.
00:38:32
It just feels off, so she spits the item out to inspect it. That so-called crunchy item in her chili appears to be a human fingertip.
00:38:42
No! Yes. Tip or nail? Tip. Hold the entire tip. Basically, the finger is what we will be calling it from now on in this story.
00:38:51
Holy shit. Not just one of those, oh, I cut the top of my finger off with a knife and it's bleeding, but it's still my finger.
00:38:57
Like I'm sending a message tip. It's the top of a finger. No. Oh my God. These are the very first moments in what will soon become a national media sensation and a costly PR crisis for one of America's biggest fast food chains.
00:39:12
This is the story of the Wendy's severed finger event of 2005. Oh, my God. It's not ringing a bell yet.
00:39:20
Really? Okay. No. Amazing. Okay. So the sources Maren used to research the story today are a Snopes article by writer David Mickelson and several articles from the Associated Press and from the San Francisco Chronicle, most of which were published in 2005.
00:39:37
And the rest of our sources are listed in our show notes if you want to go see and read.
00:39:42
Okay, so Wendy's San Jose, 2005, 7.30 p.m. A woman just spits out a fingertip and is quite understandably freaking out.
00:39:55
She starts telling the other diners to stop eating their food as she shows off the small finger.
00:40:01
It's about an inch long. It does have a fingernail on one end. I love her type. That's not just like, oh, my God.
00:40:08
She just starts fucking screaming about it. Stop eating. Stop eating. Stop eating.
00:40:11
Good for her. And then she rushes up to the restaurant's employees to tell them what's happened.
00:40:15
And as she does, as the San Jose Mercury News later reports, at least three people in the dining room become physically ill.
00:40:23
So you're sitting there eating and then someone's like, holy shit, there's a finger in my chili.
00:40:27
And like that's probably the first time most of them had ever seen a severed finger before.
00:40:32
Absolutely. You gotta hope. You're, yeah, for sure. Yeah, you're, I didn't think about that at all.
00:40:37
You're connecting all these things and then you're just like, and I have just taken a bite of whatever.
00:40:42
This is horrific and I love it. Okay, good. But some of the Wendy's employees seem to be in disbelief.
00:40:48
One patron will later tell the Mercury News, quote, they told us it was a vegetable.
00:40:52
The people from Wendy's were poking at it with a spoon. Oh. End quote. But I mean, what are they supposed to do?
00:40:58
Yeah. This is wild. Yeah. This is like, how are you even saying that this is real?
00:41:02
There's no way this is real. I mean, I guess it could be Hominy if you look really blurry.
00:41:07
You don't have your glasses on. Hominy doesn't have a fingernail on it. That's very true.
00:41:10
As far as I know. I shouldn't just say that kind of stuff. You really should fact check.
00:41:15
I'm going to someday. Okay, so it's very understandable why these employees are questioning what's going on.
00:41:21
They are the ones that made the chili. They made it at 2 p.m. in the restaurant or they assembled it.
00:41:27
Made is probably generous, but I'm not exactly sure. But they make it there as usual every day.
00:41:32
So no one on the staff was involved in any accidents No one lost a fingertip It doesn make sense that something that shocking is found in the chili from their restaurant But not everyone was in denial Someone in that restaurant called the police and the police arrive alongside officials from the Santa Clara County Health Department led by a health officer named Dr Marty Fensterscheib Dr Fensterscheib Dr Fensterscheib It 7 on a weeknight He at home Ring ring ring Real boring Getting ready for bed Crossword puzzle Yeah no big like his life isn that exciting
00:42:06
No. Then the fucking call of a lifetime comes in. And he like puts on his half glasses.
00:42:12
Yes. And he says, I've got a feeling that they need my services. His wife puts his cape on. His children kiss him goodbye.
00:42:19
Dr. Marty Fensterscheib is about to roll. So at his command, the fingertip is quickly wrapped up in damp gauze and sent off to the medical examiner's office, who is now tasked with determining whether or not it is indeed a human body part.
00:42:35
Next, Dr. Fensterscheib shuts down the restaurant until he and his officers can figure out what in the living hell is going on.
00:42:42
The prepared chili that's on site, which had been made at two o'clock that afternoon, as I said, is hauled off for inspection, as are all the ingredients that the restaurant has on hand.
00:42:52
to prepare any new batches of chili, right? So they just take all the chili fixings,
00:42:56
which you know are a plastic bag. It's just, I was just going to say that. Like, they don't chop them in fucking dice.
00:43:01
That shit's just going from a bag to a heating thing, right? I can't say for sure.
00:43:05
I really wish I could call my friend Erica Sobel, who I went to high school with.
00:43:09
She worked at Wendy's for years, and she listens to this podcast. Erica, text me, please,
00:43:14
if you know anything about the preparation for the Wendy's chili. I should have thought of that.
00:43:19
You know that people listening right now are going to write in and tell us about their fast food.
00:43:23
My God, send us your fast food experiences. God, please. The grossest ones. But especially Wendy's employees.
00:43:28
Yes, we do. We want to hear from you in any way you would like to share with us.
00:43:31
My favorite murder at Gmail. But I have to say this. Well, you'll see. I won't give anything away right now.
00:43:36
So it doesn't take long for Dr. Fensterscheib and his team to figure out that finger was in fact not severed in the restaurant.
00:43:46
None of the employees show any signs of trauma or bleeding, and they don't find any other health or safety issues in that kitchen.
00:43:52
Instead, the situation seems contained to that one diner's cup of chili and presumably the larger batch that that cup came from.
00:44:01
She's the luckiest woman in the world or the least unlucky woman in the world. Yes, exactly.
00:44:05
So a few hours later, this Wendy's is given an okay to reopen. Right? No, thank you.
00:44:13
I mean. Give it a night. Close it for the night. And then later that night, the local news reports on this story, but it's not given hardly any airtime at all.
00:44:22
And they end it by saying the report is unconfirmed. So it's basically just word is that.
00:44:27
But the next day, the medical examiner confirms what everyone was dreading. The object in the chili is not a vegetable or a prop of any kind.
00:44:36
It is a human fingertip. And when that information is sent to the health officer, Dr. Fensterscheib, he is the unenviable task of informing the public.
00:44:47
Because when the finger was discovered, they made the chili at 2. The finger was discovered at 7.30.
00:44:54
That means countless customers could have purchased and eaten from the same batch of chili.
00:45:00
No one's ever eating chili again in that town. It was truly, that is what happened for a while in Northern California.
00:45:06
Because it was just the imprint of it on everyone's mind. That's so gross. It is the thing of like, it doesn't, it's like once the story hits, it kind of doesn't matter whether or not it's true.
00:45:17
Absolutely. Kind of like gossip. Yeah. So, Maren writes to me in parentheses, note to Karen,
00:45:25
I haven't been able to find a source that specifically states how many customers purchased the chili that day.
00:45:30
it's always in vague terms and i'm like no more than four absolutely not more like there's who
00:45:36
nobody no one i bet you when the chili first came out in like the 80s people were like what a great
00:45:42
substitute but you could put it on a potato potato you can have it with a salad yeah i think by 2005
00:45:48
people are just like chili i don't know yeah i could be wrong again wendy heads let me know
00:45:55
So Dr. Fensterscheib makes a public statement where he reassures anyone who ate the chili in that time frame from this specific Wendy's that they are probably fine since the fingertip was presumably cooked at high enough temperatures to kill bacteria and viruses.
00:46:10
Then I just picture him being C and popping it in his mouth to be like, it's totally fine.
00:46:14
Choo, choo, choo. It's Erin Brockovich with then you drink the water. Yeah, totally.
00:46:18
If it's so fine, you drink the water. You have some chili from yesterday, Marty.
00:46:22
So he advises anyone who may have eaten that chili to check in with their doctor just in case.
00:46:29
Imagine having to run that press conference. Just the waves of horrified barfing.
00:46:37
Oh, my God. Oh, my God. It's just like stand by me at the old pie eating contest.
00:46:41
Okay. Now that a public health official is confirming the initial reports, of course, then local and national news picks up on the story.
00:46:49
The San Francisco Chronicle actually sends a reporter to the Wendy's in San Jose to interview diners.
00:46:54
And one woman who happens to be eating a bowl of chili when she's approached by the reporter tells the reporter she'd heard rumors about the finger, but she assumed it was just an urban legend.
00:47:04
On the news that night? A four-day-old urban legend. That's denial. She likes her chili.
00:47:11
She loves her bucket. Maybe we just didn't know about Wendy's chili. This one's so good that you'll eat it even after.
00:47:16
When you're like, probably not a finger, though, right? And they took care of it already.
00:47:21
Yeah. You know. That's a new batch. Why didn't they pull all the chili off their fucking, the market?
00:47:26
I think they were like, there's no way this happened. Okay. So, you know. Okay. So another diner hadn't heard the news at all until she got to Wendy's and overheard employees whispering about it behind the counter.
00:47:38
Guys. Love it. Shut up. She tells the reporter, quote, I actually did check my food with my spoon.
00:47:44
Again, was that food chili? Poking her burger with a spoon. Chili's being eaten.
00:47:49
There's even a customer who walks in fully aware of this situation and jokingly asks the staff, quote, where's the finger at?
00:47:57
Oh, and then I just wrote in all caps, I love him. I know it's a guy, and I love him.
00:48:03
But in the first wave of reporting the story, one key detail is always missing, the name of the woman who discovered the finger in her chili.
00:48:11
She explicitly asks not to be identified or described, even, and reporters honor that request.
00:48:17
But of course, her identity can't stay secret for long as this story gets wider and wider.
00:48:23
and reporters find out that this woman's name is Anna Ayala and she's a 39-year-old woman from Las Vegas
00:48:30
who was in San Jose visiting relatives. While Dr. Fenstersheib has been trying to give the public peace of mind
00:48:37
about any physical effects of consuming the contaminated chili, the psychological fallout, of course, is uncontainable.
00:48:45
And he knows this firsthand because he's the one that has to call Anna to give her the bad news.
00:48:50
He's been checking in on her since the night before, which is when it happened. But now he has that confirmation from the medical examiner.
00:48:58
So he asked to tell her that, in fact, it was a human body part in her chili. She didn't want anyone to know her name because it's the same thing when you win the lottery.
00:49:07
Like your family is just going to come after you for body parts the way they come after you for money.
00:49:10
Or they're just like constantly like, oh, God. She chewed a finger. So he later says, quote,
00:49:16
I had to confirm it to her that she had indeed put a piece of human finger in her mouth.
00:49:21
She kind of lost it. Yeah. End quote. Totally understandable. Absolutely. So within a week of her gruesome experience, Anna has completely dropped the pretense of anonymity, and now she's making the media rounds.
00:49:34
She gives an exclusive interview to Good Morning America where she says that she's considering filing a lawsuit, and she talks about the emotional distress of the whole ordeal.
00:49:43
She tells them, quote, the thought of, you know, just knowing that there was a human remain in my mouth.
00:49:48
It's disgusting. It's tearing me apart inside. End quote. So at first, of course, there's this outpouring of sympathy for her and, of course, a widespread disgust toward Wendy's and their chili.
00:50:02
And then over the next couple of weeks, Anna's story dominates national headlines.
00:50:06
It fuels endless late night jokes, which was the culture back then. I'm so glad that's not really like a thing anymore.
00:50:13
Yeah, it was so tasteless. It was so, well, I mean, it was just expected at the time.
00:50:19
It was just like, yes, this is going to happen and it's immediately going to be the joke fuel and, you know, everything's up for ridicule.
00:50:28
It also, though, tanks Wendy's sales, especially in Northern California. I was there.
00:50:35
This is the truth. You didn't need it. No, no one. Everyone just was weirded out.
00:50:38
Yeah. But Wendy's is not sitting idly by just watching all this happen. And they, as a corporation, of course, are looking for answers.
00:50:45
This is big business. And they're not just going to sit there and be like, we're so sorry.
00:50:50
They make all their San Jose staffers take a polygraph test to show that they played no part in placing the finger in the chili.
00:50:58
Wow. And then they hire their own private investigator to look into the matter for themselves.
00:51:03
Damn, Wendy. Yes. Most importantly, the company posts a $50,000 reward, which they'll later bump up to $100,000.
00:51:12
for any information about how a finger could have wound up in their chili. Oh, so they think it's fucking sabotage.
00:51:19
Hell yes. And they're ready to pay. They're like, what's the whole story? Because this seems weird.
00:51:25
We have a lot of checks and balances. Yeah, that's one angle. Nobody, not one employee at our restaurant knows what the fuck's going on.
00:51:32
It was not them. We stand behind them now that we've polygraphed them. Right. And just FYI, in 2005, $100,000 would have been $160,000 in today's money.
00:51:44
You need that. This is so big Lebowski with the toe. Right? Yeah. It is. So anyone with information is asked to call Wendy's anonymous tip line, which their private investigator is actively screening themselves.
00:51:59
That was like the best gig he's ever gotten. Ever. To be on the Wendy's severed finger tip line.
00:52:06
Oh, my God. Seven-fingered tip line. Okay. So now in tandem with Wendy's efforts, there's also an official police investigation into where this finger could have come from.
00:52:17
And there are six detectives working on this case. Can we get those on a murder case, please?
00:52:22
Could we have some sexual assault paid attention to? Would be great if we could get those kits tested.
00:52:27
Okay. But again, and I think we all know this now in 2025, literally 20 years later, that when a corporation has an issue, that that is what's focused on.
00:52:37
This is a money-making venture, and this is not thousands of dollars. This is hundreds of – this is millions of dollars probably.
00:52:44
So the thing is no one can figure it out. The employees at the San Jose Wendy's location have all been ruled out.
00:52:50
A deeper dive into the restaurant's supply chain also turns up nothing. there are seven different suppliers involved in producing Wendy's chili.
00:52:58
Not a single one has reported any recent workplace injuries. That said, there are some clues.
00:53:05
Early on, the medical examiner notes that the fingertip is not decomposed, meaning that it was likely severed recently.
00:53:12
He also points out that it looks, quote, torn off, possibly by manufacturing machinery rather than cleanly cut.
00:53:21
Gross. Suggesting that it could have come from a workplace accident. Okay. And then with its neatly groomed, still intact fingernail, the medical examiner also suspects this finger belongs to a woman.
00:53:31
Okay. This information gets the police exactly nowhere. They fingerprint the fingertip and then they run.
00:53:39
So sorry. Oh, my God. I almost spit that water out. They fingerprinted the fingertip.
00:53:44
Who had to hold it and touch it. And were they yelling the entire time? Oh, my God.
00:53:48
No, Karen. The medical examiner is a professional. They're professionals. They deal with this constantly It not that big of a deal to them They run those fingertip fingerprints through national databases No hits Clean clean record fingertip Wendy meanwhile is now on the defensive They bring their own forensic expert to consult with the medical examiner specifically on whether the fingertip had actually been cooked with the chili or added afterwards Their analysis concludes that the finger had in fact been added later
00:54:23
okay dr fenstersheib loops back into the tell reporters quote the possibilities are still all
00:54:30
out there on where and when the figure tip came into the chili so they're going to like the health
00:54:37
department the everybody's going back to the press over and over like updates and like here's what
00:54:42
needs to happen now people need to the story needs to be controlled in some way with each new bit of
00:54:48
information that comes to light wendy's feels more reaffirmed that they have done nothing wrong
00:54:53
and that they're being set up. The corporation's senior vice president of communications at the time, Denny Lynch,
00:54:59
tells the New York Times, quote, Someone put something in a bowl of chili, but it was not us.
00:55:05
We don't know what happened, but we know Wendy's is innocent. End quote. So Anna Ayala, meanwhile, is not backing down.
00:55:14
Her attorney immediately shoots back, saying, quote, Obviously something slipped through, to put it lightly,
00:55:20
And this is a strict liability type of case. It is a product liability case and a consumer doesn't expect to find body parts in their food. End quote.
00:55:30
So while all of that's playing out in the media, behind the scenes, the Wendy's tip line is active.
00:55:36
And in a matter of weeks, they reportedly received nearly 300 tips and some are so bizarre they end up making the news.
00:55:44
Oh, my God. For example, one comes from a 59-year-old Nevada woman who'd recently lost a finger to a leopard at her exotic animal compound outside of Las Vegas.
00:55:54
What? Which is, again, where Anna lives. The woman says she last saw her finger on ice at the hospital, but has no idea where it ended up beyond that.
00:56:03
Someone's selling fingertips to that. No, it doesn't track. It doesn't make a lot of sense.
00:56:09
No, I'm not getting for me to be. This lead certainly adds more color to an already weird case, but the police quickly shut it down because the woman's lost finger in the fingertip found by Anna look entirely different.
00:56:21
How do you fucking tell two finger? Come on. You want me to tell you? Yeah. They put eight fingertips in a lineup.
00:56:27
They're all wearing turtlenecks. Which one was in your mouth? Do any of these look familiar?
00:56:31
Long fingernail, little bitten fingernail. A little quirky smile. One's got dimples.
00:56:36
Hangnail. Okay, then a new tip is called into the Wendy's hotline. Ring, ring, Wendy's fingertip hotline.
00:56:43
But it's not about the finger. It's about Anna herself. This caller claims that back in 2002, Anna scammed her by selling her an $11,000 trailer that she, Anna, in fact, did not own.
00:56:56
Oh, no. Of course, this has nothing to do with the Wendy's incident. But if it's true, it could maybe shed some light on the character of the person that is at the center of all of this.
00:57:07
It's not a great look for Anna. So around the same time, it comes to light that Anna had been involved in an unusually large number of lawsuits.
00:57:16
Oh, no, you can't. We can't do that. No, no, people people are on to you. The thing about lawsuits is it goes into the permanent record and the public record.
00:57:25
Yeah. And like most people have zero to one. Yes. You hope you'd hope. OK, so the AP reports, quote, investigators have found 13 civil actions involving Ayala or her children.
00:57:39
At times, it says she has settled cases for cash payouts before the lawsuits have gone to court.
00:57:44
Yeah, that's the scam right there. So now here we are. Also, some of these lawsuits are very shady.
00:57:49
In 1999, for example, a car dealership sued Anna and her then-boyfriend, accusing them of writing a bad check to buy a car.
00:57:57
The same year, Anna sued that dealership, claiming a wheel fell off of the vehicle that they had sold to her.
00:58:03
Her case was eventually tossed out, and she reportedly never repaid the debt. Hmm.
00:58:08
So she got a car. Yeah, yeah. Tried to accuse them of like, The wheel fell. You almost killed us with this thing.
00:58:13
They were like, you didn't pay for it. Yeah. It all gets settled out of court. Okay.
00:58:18
Now people are wondering if Anna planned the whole incident with the hopes of reaching a big settlement with Wendy's.
00:58:23
Oh, now the standing up screaming thing makes a little more sense. It kind of goes, then you're like replaying it in your mind.
00:58:29
The movie starts again. You see the scene in a different light. You do. Suddenly it's raining outside.
00:58:33
Okay, the police investigation and media coverage begin to shift in that direction, and all eyes are now squarely on Anna.
00:58:42
Oh, honey. On April 6th, only about two weeks after Anna discovers the fingertip, quote-unquote, police get a warrant to search her home.
00:58:50
When reporters catch wind of this, they swarm Anna's property, hoping to get a statement, and she calls out to those reporters from her front door, saying, quote,
00:58:59
Lies, lies, lies. That's all I am hearing. They should look at Wendy's. What are they hiding?
00:59:04
Why are we being victimized again and again? Okay, drama queen. I would like to, I wish we could hold up performances side by side and see whose is more convincing.
00:59:12
Because I feel like when people are cornered like this and then they're like, no, we're just going to double down and go bold.
00:59:17
Yeah. It's some of the worst acting you've always ever seen. Why do people think that they can get away with shit like this, though?
00:59:22
Like, they just think they're smarter than everyone, right? Yes. Yeah. But you're not.
00:59:26
It's like actually kind of dumb. You think you're smarter than everybody, but also you think you're a really good actor.
00:59:32
You think you're a believable actor. And a good liar, which is just like. No. No.
00:59:36
No. And yet, just eight days later, on April 14th, so she's like, why am I being victimized?
00:59:44
Everything's a lie. Yeah Then on April 14th her lawyer tells the Associated Press that Anna is no longer pursuing legal action against Wendy citing quote great emotional distress because of the investigation and all the media You know what I going to drop it You know what I just I don even care Forget it I don even like want your chili You just being mean to me
01:00:05
So I guess I will give up this lawsuit where you put a severed finger in my chili.
01:00:09
I don't need a lifetime supply of chili. Like just, I'll just, I'm fine. Just forget it.
01:00:13
Storm out of the kitchen. You started this fight, lady. About a week later, on April 21st, both Anna and her husband, Jamie, are arrested during
01:00:23
a raid on their home. There's a colorful detail in the Chronicle story that covers this where they say that Anna is reportedly watching Meet the Fockers on video when the police arrive.
01:00:35
Okay. Just to really paint that picture. That's like someone's PR was working overtime or they're like, what movie were they? Put that in.
01:00:42
Paint the whole picture. Maren included that and she was like, a useless yet colorful detail is how she phrased it.
01:00:49
So Anna's hit with two charges, felony grand theft connected to the allegations that she sold that trailer that wasn't hers.
01:00:56
Oh, that thing's coming back in the picture? Oh, they'll pull that right back in just to get as much stuff against her as they can.
01:01:00
But the other one, and more importantly, is the attempted grand theft for allegedly spreading the finger hoax at the expense of Wendy's business.
01:01:08
Her husband, Jamie, is actually arrested the same night, but totally separate. He is not involved in that.
01:01:14
as far as they know, he's arrested for failing to pay child support to his former partner.
01:01:20
So Anna's held on $500,000 bail, and the plans are in motion to extradite her from Nevada to
01:01:26
California. For the Wendy's fraud alone, she's facing up to six years in prison and $2.5 million
01:01:32
in restitution, which would be worth more than $4 million today. So at this point, the case against
01:01:39
Anna is mostly circumstantial. Prosecutors need more concrete evidence to secure this conviction.
01:01:46
And the biggest missing piece is the owner of the fingertip. Where are her children?
01:01:51
Oh, oh, I didn't even think. Oh, I was thinking the fingertip belonged to one of them.
01:01:55
Oh, well, figuring out where it came from could be the key to proving Anna's involvement.
01:02:01
On May 4th, another tip comes into the Wendy's hotline. The caller claims to know exactly where
01:02:07
the finger came from. He names a man who recently lost part of his finger in a workplace accident
01:02:12
in Nevada, who just so happens to work with Anna's husband. Oh, shit. Marin's chosen to keep the
01:02:19
finger's owner anonymous since he was never charged with a crime. Okay. So I support her in that
01:02:24
choice. Yeah. So San Jose police head to Nevada to question this man. And sure enough, he's missing
01:02:29
a finger, which he explains he lost in an on-the-job accident not long ago. Then he drops a bombshell.
01:02:36
He admits that he sold his severed finger to Anna's husband for $100 to settle a debt.
01:02:43
You didn't question why someone wants your fucking severed finger? Look, he wants that debt off the books.
01:02:49
I'd just be like, sure. I would fucking sell my severed finger, wouldn't you? Absolutely.
01:02:55
Yeah. No questions asked? I guess NQA. So, but not only that, Jamie allegedly told them that he and Anna planned to plant it in food.
01:03:04
and according to legal filings Jamie even promised him a cut of the eventual settlement $250,000
01:03:11
as long as he kept quiet How many nightly lights have they had that night? Dude I'm on this guy's side
01:03:17
I am too, the finger guy was kind of like well this horrible thing happened to me
01:03:21
I don't have the top of my finger they said they can't put it back on I got my $150,000, fine
01:03:25
I owe this guy big time I just give him the finger and then maybe a little more later on, I don't know
01:03:32
and then as it unfolds he's like oh Jesus Christ I have to call these people. This is too messy.
01:03:36
Thank God there's a tip line. 1-800-FROSTY. Oh, my God. Call now. Okay, so now authorities soon confirm with DNA that the finger belongs to this man.
01:03:47
So now the case against Anna Ayala and her husband, Jamie, is solid. In September 2005, about six months after the whole saga began, the couple pleads guilty to conspiracy to file a false claim and attempted grand theft.
01:04:01
Jamie's sentenced to 12 years, while Anna gets nine, although later the nine is reduced to four on a legal technicality.
01:04:09
As a part of their sentencing, the couple is ordered to pay Wendy's more than $20 million in damages.
01:04:15
Come on. Which would be over $30 million today. But the company agrees to let them off the hook for this money as long as they never attempt to profit off of their hoax.
01:04:26
Damn, they should have put them in their commercials. That would have been fucking hilarious.
01:04:29
it's so wouldn't have as a person who was there as a person who was there having to kind of like
01:04:37
grapple with this weird like i know it's not but but also is this is this how we are this um
01:04:44
vulnerable yeah to just kind of anything anyone wants to tell us anything okay even though wendy's
01:04:52
is ultimately vindicated anna and jamie's scam cost them dearly the new york times reports
01:04:57
Quote, the claims and the mass of news media attention it brought caused individual franchises in Northern California to lose 20 to 50 percent of their sales.
01:05:08
According to the affidavit, Wendy's estimated it has been losing a million dollars a day since the incident was made public on March 22nd.
01:05:17
So in a desperate attempt to win customers back, Wendy's launches a free frosty weekend promotion.
01:05:24
but the financial hit goes beyond corporate losses. Business at the San Jose Wendy's
01:05:30
drops so drastically that several employees lose their jobs or have their hours cut.
01:05:35
Over time, though, Wendy's more or less moves on. So do Anna and Jamie, who eventually serve
01:05:41
their sentences. We don't know much about their lives post the Wendy's hoax, especially for Jamie,
01:05:48
who returns completely to a private life. Never hear from him again. But in 2013 Anna back in the headlines That June her 26 son accidentally shoots himself in the ankle with a gun which he is not allowed to possess because he is a convicted felon
01:06:05
But instead of just telling the truth, he and Anna file a false police report claiming he was shot by an unknown gunman.
01:06:13
An officer working the case later tells ABC News, quote, They gave pretty specific information to the point we actually thought we had a suspect.
01:06:20
We interviewed this person. We conducted various forensic testing as far as gunshot residue goes.
01:06:26
So we treated it like the real deal. End quote. Eventually, under police questioning, Anna Sun admits that they made the whole story up.
01:06:33
They are both arrested and ultimately convicted on charges related to filing the false report.
01:06:38
So then again, for years, things are quiet until July of 2024. When The New York Times publishes an article with the innocuous title, quote,
01:06:48
Harris narrows gap against Trump Times-Siena poll finds. It's a standard piece on the latest 2024 presidential polling until people find buried within it a quote from a 58-year-old San Jose woman that catches their attention.
01:07:06
She tells the Times, quote, I'm a Democrat, but I've changed my mind after everything that's happened with Joe Biden's administration.
01:07:14
I mean, the border situation is out of control, end quote. That woman is Anna Ayala.
01:07:20
It doesn't take long for people to put two and two together. A senior editor at The Atlantic screen grabs the Times article and tweets, quote,
01:07:28
the latest NYT poll write-up quotes the woman who was convicted of planting a severed finger in her Wendy's chili.
01:07:35
And of course, that goes viral. And the New York Times now fully in damage control mode issues a retraction, saying, quote,
01:07:43
The Times removed comments from one voter in an earlier version of this article after learning that the person had been convicted in an extortion scheme in which she made fraudulent claims.
01:07:54
Okay. End quote. So with that, some 20 years since the first grabbing headlines alongside that, quote, crunchy fingertip, this bizarre story of Anna Ayala comes to rest for now anyway.
01:08:07
that tweet and then the accompanying article is what Allison sent me when she was like,
01:08:14
hey, and just in case, just, you know, keeping up with stuff. Did you know that this was going on?
01:08:19
And that's when I sent it to Maren and I was like, oh my God, we have to tell the story.
01:08:24
And that is the story of the Wendy's severed finger hoax of 2005. I still have so many questions.
01:08:31
I know. Was it actually ever in her mouth? Did she have to go through that part?
01:08:35
Was there a crunch? I bet no. There's no way you would do that if you weren't. Fake napkins.
01:08:40
Yes. Fake spitting. Fake spitting. Already in the napkin. Already in the napkin.
01:08:44
Unless she went all the way with it. Well, you kind of got it. You know when you tell a lie, it's best to get as close to the truth as possible.
01:08:49
How close are you willing to get? No. Not that fucking close. Wait. Did anyone get the reward money?
01:08:59
That's what I want to know too. Oh, that's right. Like so many questions. Yeah, I wonder.
01:09:03
Well, but I think the person whose finger it was, if he called the tip line. He should get the money.
01:09:09
No. Should he? No. He was part of it. Was he? He wasn't. Think of the diners. Think of what the diners who heard her screaming and began projectile vomiting in that Wendy's dining room.
01:09:20
Think of what they would want. Okay. They should get the money. Let's give them the money.
01:09:25
I mean, if we could. Lifetime chili. No. No. fix it that's how you reverse it it's all so upsetting oh man that was one for the ages that
01:09:39
reminds me of one that like if you're going on a road trip with someone who doesn't listen to my
01:09:42
murder play that one play this one for them yes you know for sure just like just do it i mean i
01:09:48
feel like there was like when we do that and just go through it's like not just hometowns but just
01:09:53
like do you remember weird stuff from your childhood it's like that's how like thinking
01:09:57
of those stories where I was like, I remember when this happened and it was we would make
01:10:01
jokes as we would drive by a Wendy's. We were constantly at like. Let's talk about it.
01:10:07
Yeah. Please. I don't think I ever stopped going to Wendy's. Why would you? It's fine.
01:10:10
It's so good. There's no fingers. Well, that's the show, ladies and gentlemen. Yeah.
01:10:14
Thank you guys for listening on your road trip. We appreciate you. Now that I'm thinking about it, this should I have done a warning at the beginning of
01:10:21
this story? What about chili? No. That's fine. Do you hate chili? Don't listen. It's called my favorite murder.
01:10:26
So like if you can't handle a finger chili story, then get out of our kitchen where we're chopping off fingertips left, right and center.
01:10:32
We love you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:10:41
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck.
01:10:51
Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton. Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo.
01:10:56
This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin.
01:11:02
Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder.
01:11:08
Goodbye. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
01:11:20
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.
01:11:28
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
01:11:36
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:11:46
How much you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.
01:11:50
No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, The Matchup with Lalea,
01:11:55
I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undetected
01:12:00
Disputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie
01:12:04
undercard, the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free I heart radio app,
01:12:09
search the matchup with the Leah and listen now. Brought to you by Novartis founding partner of I heart women's sports
01:12:16
network. Will Ferrell's big money players and I heart podcast presents soccer moms.
01:12:21
So I'm Leanne. This is my best friend, Janet. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
01:12:25
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later. We're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
01:12:31
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
01:12:36
With all the snacks and drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
01:12:42
Well, then you got them. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.