00:00:00
This is exactly right. Secret World of Roald Dahl. Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:36
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women
00:00:41
shaping culture right now. Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking
00:00:46
about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry,
00:00:51
you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who
00:00:57
you are and your integrity. You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja.
00:01:01
Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
00:01:06
you get your podcasts. When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:01:13
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed
00:01:19
therapist. It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff.
00:01:27
It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day.
00:01:32
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:01:52
Hello. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's right. This is our new Wednesday show where we recap our oldest episodes,
00:02:02
but we add in all new commentary and case updates and insights. And today we're recapping episode 35, which we named A Small Foreign Faction,
00:02:11
which sounds familiar to a lot of you. So this episode, we did it a little differently.
00:02:15
It's just one story that we kind of discuss and talk about together. and we discuss the CBS documentary about the murder of JonBenet Ramsey.
00:02:24
That's right. It was such an epic documentary that came out. We both knew it was coming. We were excited to see it.
00:02:29
So we're like, yeah, let's just talk about this. So it's one of the rare episodes where we're not telling each other surprise stories.
00:02:36
We broke format. Yeah, I like it. With big cases like this, there's so much to talk about.
00:02:42
So why not? So join us now as we take you back to September 22nd, 2016, a Thursday unlike any other.
00:02:50
And now we're going to listen to the intro of episode 35. Shall we? Oh, yeah. Are you okay?
00:03:00
Yeah. What was going through your mind just now? Oh, I was thinking about my old roommate who used to scream sneeze and I was getting legitimately angry about the amount of time I spent with people I didn't like in the 90s.
00:03:12
because I was on drugs and drink. Maybe you were on drugs and drink because you couldn't stand
00:03:18
the most of the people you were around. I think that had a lot to do with it. And yet I felt very like fakely loyal or something
00:03:27
or like I was supposed to make it work out somehow. But if you're friends with a scream sneezer,
00:03:33
cancel the friendship immediately. It's the most obnoxious habit in the world. Like what happened to you that you need attention
00:03:40
when you sneeze? my mom what happened to her i don't know but she screams sneezes wait she listens we can't talk
00:03:46
about her she's fine mom mom she knows she knows what she fucking did to me in my life it is
00:03:52
because it's just you know your sneeze is coming if you're a scream sneezer yeah i don't she's so
00:03:59
all of a sudden it's someone screaming she loves attention there's no you're completely right about
00:04:03
that yeah like that's a thing that's a that's a connection yeah mom i love you but jesus fucking
00:04:08
Christ. I mean, she knows she doesn't care. Do you think a lot of people think that they just
00:04:13
started this podcast accidentally, like skip the beginning of it when really that was the beginning?
00:04:17
That was the beginning. We're trying new beginnings. It's called complaint. We're just
00:04:22
a hard complaint at the top, angry complaining. Then we go into our pre-written intro. Go ahead,
00:04:32
Georgia. Hey, thanks for tuning in to My Favorite Murder. My name is Georgia Hartstark.
00:04:37
And my name is Khan Kelgaro. And this is pre... We've been practicing this for months.
00:04:43
We wrote it and then we sent it off to a professional editor. They sent back some suggestions.
00:04:49
God, that was a great beginning of a podcast. You're welcome for being fucking professional.
00:04:57
That's why this episode is so expensive for you guys. Yeah, that's right. Because of this amazing high quality writing.
00:05:04
How much money we spend. We don't even say, have we said the words, my favorite murder yet?
00:05:08
I think I mentioned it. Okay. Good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good, good.
00:05:13
Anyway. Do you want to just kick right into corrections corner? Absolutely. I have one.
00:05:18
Go ahead. No, no, no. Okay. Cause I actually, I do have like one that I did. I fucked up last week.
00:05:24
Oh, well. Why not like. Stop trying to steal my thunder. Why would you do? So this mass shooting in Australia led to crazy strict gun laws, which is amazing. And everyone
00:05:37
who messaged me was like, we thought that the Sandy Hook shooting was going to be the same
00:05:42
incident. And we think you're a terrible place because it wasn't. But here's ours. Here's this
00:05:48
positive thing. And it's great and amazing. And we're all very happy with it. Did you tell them
00:05:52
about our saltwater taffy Because we can be pretty great when we try Yes Yes There are people who are who have major problems getting guns to kill children specifically
00:06:05
Wait, they don't, the problem is they don't have major problems getting guns. No, I meant they have problems in their lives.
00:06:11
Yes. They are getting guns. Yeah, and however, it's very easy for them to get guns,
00:06:16
even though they have major problems. It's totally fine for them to get guns. Let's talk about gun control.
00:06:22
Oh, yes. Who doesn't love to hear all about that? All right. What's your corrections corner?
00:06:27
Mine is the simple fact that Peoria is not three miles away from Chicago, but three hours.
00:06:33
And I swear to fucking Christ, every single person in the Midwest texted and tweeted and told me about it.
00:06:41
Personal friends, distant strangers, everybody who could possibly say it was like,
00:06:47
and they were saying it as if I had said Abraham Lincoln was our first president.
00:06:52
Like, excuse me, Peoria is not three miles away. Karen, as the other half of this podcast,
00:06:59
I'm exonerating you from that needing to be a fucking thing for you to apologize for.
00:07:04
Sometimes when I'm reading off my Wikipedia printout, my eye will tell me something
00:07:09
that isn't there on the page. That's what happens. And like, okay, all right. So we're in Los Angeles.
00:07:14
If someone said that San Francisco is three hours from here, would you say no? Would you tell them it's six hours?
00:07:21
And would it make a difference? No, you know what I would do? I would withhold the true information
00:07:25
and then I would gloat. There you go. Yeah. I would say I'm better than that person secretly.
00:07:30
Everyone needs just to be more selfish. Yeah, they do. There. Gloat more. Said it.
00:07:35
Talk to us less. In episode 35, Karen and Georgia just became real mean. Just became big assholes.
00:07:42
It was weird. They went into gun control shit and then they just got rude. And that's when I said,
00:07:47
I've had it. Here's a positive. Okay. Because it's not all like that with us. Yes, I have a positive too.
00:07:52
Go ahead. Do you really? Yeah. Well, my positive you know about, but let's fake and pretend
00:07:56
like you've never heard this story before. So Stephen hasn't heard it. Stephen, I'm not gonna look at you anymore.
00:08:02
Tell Stephen. Stephen. Don't look at me. So I was doing something, working probably,
00:08:07
and then killing time before I had to go somewhere else. So when I have an hour to kill,
00:08:12
I go to J.Crew or some such place where I can get a long sleeve cotton shirt. Real quick, haters.
00:08:19
This is not a fucking ad that J.Crew has paid us to do. No. we're not sneaking an ad in on you.
00:08:24
No, we haven't done that yet. We win for the right money. We're blatant. Yeah, that's right.
00:08:29
They haven't paid us enough to sneak an ad in on you yet. Yet. So I go over to the Grove.
00:08:36
If you are not, have never visited Los Angeles or not from around here, the Grove is like...
00:08:41
Three hours away from Los Angeles. Three hours from the heart of Los Angeles is a mall where they basically
00:08:50
tried to make it, if there was a small town where everyone was obsessed with shopping,
00:08:55
that's what the Grove looks like. There's a train or a trolley or something. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:09:00
Gardens. So anyhow, I go into J.Crew, try to get myself a shirt. And the guy, the first guy that says, how are you?
00:09:08
Or do you need any help? And I'm like, no, no, leave me alone. And then he asked me again a little bit later.
00:09:14
And I'm like, does he think I'm a shoplifter? I've worked retail. I know what this, you're patrolling me.
00:09:19
Yeah. And then finally he came up and he goes, what's your name? And I go, Karen.
00:09:25
And he goes, what's your last name? And I go, what are you doing? Never tell them your last name.
00:09:29
And then he goes, are you from the podcast, My College Murder? And I said, yes. And then he lost his mind on me.
00:09:38
I love him. And he told me, this is the thing that got me. So look, we are having some nice success with this podcast.
00:09:45
It's very, very exciting. It's quite bewildering. And it's just like a weird, it's just weird.
00:09:52
But I didn't think we were to the level of people recognizing us from a podcast at The Grove.
00:09:57
No, that's, that's, The Grove is like the biggest, it's like the, it's like tourists go there.
00:10:04
Yes. It's like a big thing. Mario Lopez does his show from there. Mario fucking Lopez does his show from there.
00:10:09
It's a high end recognition spot. Definitely. So Trey, who is the young man who is talking to me.
00:10:15
What's up Trey? You think they're listening right now? for you. Oh, yes, I do. Because what he told me was that the J. Crew of the Grove listens to our
00:10:22
podcast when they shut down at night and have to fold down the store. Love you. So they he couldn't
00:10:27
believe that no one that he closes with was there to see. Do you think that they all think he's
00:10:32
lying and now this is happening? Well, girl, we took a picture to prove. And then someone wrote
00:10:37
to the Twitter page and said, I can't believe I wasn't on shift when Trey met Karen from My
00:10:41
favorite murder. And the whole thing was just this super cute. He was so happy. It just is so
00:10:48
wonderful to see people that excited. And that we, yeah, that was the cutest thing, Stephen,
00:10:53
is that at one point he was just asking me all these questions and stuff. And then at one point
00:10:57
he goes, where's Georgia right now? I was just like, I honestly don't know. That's so cute.
00:11:05
All right. So we're going to do a personal appearance. We're going to do surprise drop in.
00:11:09
Oh, a J.Crew closing shift drop-in? At the Grove. Yeah. Right now. And then everyone turns around at the door, but we're not there.
00:11:17
We're shoplifting. I'm going to go in there and shoplift and see if anyone says a word to my face.
00:11:22
You know they won't. So deal with that level. That's awesome. Steven, get on this level of fame that we're now all on.
00:11:30
Steven, you're going to get recognized next. Not me. I hope so. No. I'm waiting for someone to yell to me.
00:11:36
like a transaction or like a thing and then for someone to yell, stay sexy. Because like that would be, that's my dream
00:11:44
is that someone doesn't say they recognize me, doesn't say listen to the podcast,
00:11:48
but when I'm leaving our interaction, our transaction or whatever the fuck, a parking lot they yell at me They do a shout out And I will fucking scream at the top of my lungs Don get murdered Will you scream sneeze at them At the top of your lungs At the top of my nasal passages
00:12:07
You know what's funny though? Like my friend Alison Agosti, who I work with. Love the shit
00:12:12
out of her. She's the greatest. And I work with her and I walked into our writer's room the other
00:12:17
day and there's like, you know, nine people in there or whatever. And she goes, I was listening
00:12:21
to your podcast. And then I got all embarrassed and like shut her down basically. And I later had
00:12:27
to go, sorry, I received that incorrectly. I was like, it's that thing where like, it's super
00:12:33
exciting. And I don't want to overly be like, let's talk about it for five minutes. Because I'm,
00:12:39
of course, I'm so judgmental of others that I'm positive I'm going to get that judgment.
00:12:43
Well, I keep hoping my parents will then do it. And I can be like, no, it's a great,
00:12:48
They don't care. Right. Oh, I got my sister started listening. Oh, right. This is a miracle of all miracles is my sister, Laura, is now a listener and constantly texting
00:12:59
me things we need to do, things we need to say, stuff we need to talk about. Let's have older sister corner.
00:13:06
Yes. How bossy older sisters are. We should for sure. She had some very interesting observations about the JonBenet special.
00:13:14
Hey, speaking of. Not to segue corner you right into what we're doing. But let's take a casual, super casual, quick break.
00:13:26
Did you just flip me off? Oh, you lifted your middle finger while you were taking a drink.
00:13:30
No. It's very subtle. I actually flip people off like this where I barely move my outer and side fingers.
00:13:38
I just very slightly let my middle finger up. It's more feminine. I just remember in elementary school, because everything got scrutinized and everything you
00:13:45
did was stupid to everyone. Yes. Like the way you flip people off was made fun of. Yes. So I just
00:13:52
got really good at doing it correctly. So you do the one where it's two shorter fingers. You don't
00:13:58
pull all your fingers down. I pull all my fingers down. You pull all your fingers down. That is the
00:14:01
proper fuck you. Oh, instead of this? Yeah. I don't know what that is. This is California. That
00:14:06
looks like a cute little bird or something. This is NorCal fuck you where you kind of leave your
00:14:10
surrounding middle fingers up. They're like between the first and second knuckle.
00:14:15
This is so visual that we should not be talking through. I mean, it's insanity. Let's go.
00:14:20
Let's take a casual quick break and we'll teach each other our middle fingers. OK.
00:14:24
And then we'll come back. You guys ready for JonBenet? All JonBenet, all the time?
00:14:28
It's JonBenet time, everybody. Let's do it. Oh, I wonder how Trey from J.Crew is doing these days.
00:14:37
I remember that day so clearly in my mind. It was truly like my hand on the doorknob of success.
00:14:45
And Trey was the guy standing outside that door going, oh, my God, you're touching the doorknob.
00:14:51
It was just like one of those kind of things where you dream of it and then it's actually happening in front of you.
00:14:55
So I'm being like, oh, my God, are you from this podcast? Where I was like staring at him like this can't be what's happening right now.
00:15:02
You're like, what are you talking about? Only Georgia and Steven hear that in the apartment we record in.
00:15:07
What are you talking about, person I don't know? And you're this excited and you're telling me the staff of J.Crew listens to this as you close the store down, which is something I used to do at The Gap.
00:15:19
Lo these many, probably 25 years ago, knowing what it feels like to be a retail worker that's just like how we're going to get ourselves through the next three hours and the idea that you and I were the solution to that.
00:15:33
I mean, I love the solution. It's incredible. because because i love being other people's solution that they make us into because it's
00:15:40
very hard to kind of like churn that up yourself yeah you can't be your own solution but you can be
00:15:45
other people's solutions and you can find solutions and other people and places and things
00:15:49
and so it's nice to be that it's very true also speaking of solutions the funniest thing is in
00:15:54
this episode i shout out my friend allison agoste who has since been hired here at exactly right and
00:16:02
And she is basically now the staff writer and writes a lot of the stuff that you see in here coming out of Exactly Right Media and all the promos and all the different things that you hear.
00:16:12
That's her. It's crazy. She writes in the bullet point here in our details. Now I work here and we talk about the podcast every day.
00:16:19
How do you like that, Karen? So she's like, yeah, she's in it. I also love and remember so well the like, how do you flip people off conversation?
00:16:30
Oh, my God. Because I had no idea before that there was like a different way to do it.
00:16:34
Because you were full this, right? I'm full. Single finger. Single finger. Like pull the other ones down with your thumb like for as much impact as possible.
00:16:45
But you're like curl the fingers to the side. Mine is almost don't do it. Yeah. But gesture toward people.
00:16:55
I kind of do my flip off like I have very nicely manicured nails. Even though I never ever do.
00:17:00
I look like a gardener, but it's almost like the energy of nicely manicured nails and a lady that cut you off in traffic, but is going to flip you off at the same time.
00:17:11
It's always more of a fuck you to barely even bother with a middle finger than it is to give a like, like what I do, an excessively angry one, because it shows that I care.
00:17:22
You really care. I really fucking care. And when we say the word care, what we mean is the word hate.
00:17:28
Hate. All right. So let's get into this really complicated conversation we have that like I can't wait to update because so many things have changed except for the fact that we still have no fucking clue who did it.
00:17:42
And I still am so all over the place about who did it and change my mind constantly about it.
00:17:47
You know? Yeah, here we go. Let's get into our 2016 review of the Jean Benet CBS special.
00:17:52
special. Your husband is not who you think he is Your body is not what you thought it was Your identity is formed by a secret history
00:18:05
I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring
00:18:10
on the 14th season of Family Secrets. Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air.
00:18:17
So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:18:22
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:18:29
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:18:36
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:18:40
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:18:45
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:18:50
Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:18:58
Just like great shoes, great books take you places. Through unforgettable love stories and into conversations with characters you'll never forget.
00:19:07
I think any good romance, it gives me this feeling of, like, butterflies. I'm Danielle Robay, and this is Bookmarked by Risa's Book Club from Hello Sunshine and iHeart Podcast,
00:19:17
where we dive into the stories that shape us on the page and off. Each week, I'm joined by authors, celebs, book talk stars,
00:19:25
and more for conversations that will make you laugh, cry, and add way too many books to your TBR pile.
00:19:32
Listen to Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:19:39
Brought to you by Cotton, the fabric of our lives. 10-10 shots fired in City Hall building.
00:19:45
How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that! A shocking public murder.
00:19:50
This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
00:19:56
I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten.
00:20:03
And a mystery. That may or may not have been political. That may have been about sex.
00:20:07
Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:20:12
or wherever you get your podcasts. how many you there needs to be a code word for when we're not actually going to take it like
00:20:23
because we always say let's not take let's not do this let's take it out but like when do we mean it
00:20:28
and when we don't oh you like it almost like a safety yeah they call that during sex like a safe
00:20:32
word yeah because steven gets confused and he goes to write something and i'll be like no just kidding
00:20:36
leave it in but i take it as a challenge yeah that's right you steven is the we leave this all
00:20:42
up to Stephen. He beautifully edits. Can you imagine if he just had to like the whole
00:20:48
thing is this kind of insane bullshit? What if Stephen's our cult leader and it's just whatever he says goes?
00:20:53
That's right. No, I'm in the basement. I have no basement. We're in the basement.
00:21:00
This is like the Alamo. And we're back. Let's make jokes and stuff and then get into something
00:21:07
real fucked up. Well, people have been continually tweeting us since like the ads
00:21:14
for the JonBenet special started saying can't wait for it to hear what you guys say about all this.
00:21:20
Me too. Then when I went to a TiVo it the other night, there were three choices.
00:21:26
I have a question. Yes. Do you still have TiVo or do you just still call it that?
00:21:30
I call it that. Okay. It's my, that's my verb of that because I'm not, DVRing is stupid.
00:21:34
Yeah, no, I'm fine with the TiVo word. I just didn't know if that was still a thing.
00:21:38
If I had the actual brand. Yeah. No, I have DragTV. okay if you must know again no one's paying us shit for any of this shit for fuck the shit for
00:21:47
fuck if they want to give us fuck for shit then they can mark it they can email mark this steven
00:21:53
but what's the safe word screen sneeze just kidding yeah all right so yeah so so there's you had multiple job there were three
00:22:07
choices. And then I was like, oh, I don't know. When I am met with that kind of a life challenge,
00:22:12
which is choose which the correct made for TV docu series about Jean Benet's murder.
00:22:19
Choose your own Jean Benet. I like totally turn the channel. I'm like, oh, look,
00:22:23
Father Brown's on. And then I just watched something. When I joked that it was a choose your own adventure, that is actually completely correct
00:22:31
because I tried to watch a couple of them and every single one of them is so clearly
00:22:35
with agenda. Yes. Pregnant with agenda. Yes. And some of them won't, and I won't say who and what,
00:22:43
won't show the photos of her as a normal child. Right. Because, yeah, that doesn't serve
00:22:49
what their media message of what they're talking about. There's a video of her that to me,
00:22:55
and I wrote in the thing I wrote that like... For Elle.com. Can I plug it? Of course.
00:22:59
I just suddenly felt awkward about that. Do it. Get used to it. I'm not plugging it.
00:23:03
I'm just how fucking happy I am. And I might cry from like how good it feels because I started on live journal writing.
00:23:09
I'm going to be honest. And I didn't graduate community college. And you wrote two amazing articles for Elle.com
00:23:17
that were so readable and so wonderful. Thank you. They're on our Twitter feed. If you need to find them, they're great reads.
00:23:24
Karen, that means so much coming from you because I think you're an incredible writer.
00:23:27
My friend. And that means a lot to me. And my sister said the same thing. Oh my God.
00:23:31
And she's a teacher who kind of can't spell. That means a lot to me. Who kind of can't spell?
00:23:37
Now that I know she's listening, I'm going to do stuff like that. I would like to thank the editors of Elle
00:23:41
for making me look like I know how to punctuate shit. Apostrophe S's will be the death of me.
00:23:46
But they made it not seem that way. Anyways. Oh, yeah. In it, I was like, everyone stop and go look at photos of her as a normal kid.
00:23:55
Yes. Because it's a different fucking story. And there's this video of her that they show...
00:24:00
in slow-mo of her mom. It's her as a little kid. It's like a home video. Her mom is scratching the top of her head
00:24:06
as she nestles her head into her mom's leg. Have you seen this? No. And it's just so sweet and human
00:24:13
and reminds me of me and my mom as a kid. And it's this like goofy, sweet little girl
00:24:19
whose mommy is comforting her and doing this thing she probably does a lot, which is scratch her head.
00:24:26
You know, we all have this thing. Very maternal. Very. Comforting thing. Now, was this before or after Patsy had dyed her hair blonde?
00:24:34
Because I didn't know. I didn't know that it was dyed. I don't know why. And when the friend in a CBS one,
00:24:44
when the friend talks about seeing JonBenet for the first time with dyed blonde hair and Patsy being like,
00:24:49
no, it's just lying about it. She lied about it. But then I thought if she was murdered when she was six,
00:24:55
she must have had that blonde hair for at least a couple months, if not a year before, which means someone dyed a five-year-old's hair blonde, bleached. I mean,
00:25:05
bleaching your hair is disgusting. If you've ever had your hair dyed, women know. It's like a very
00:25:11
gross, intense chemical process on a five-year-old. That's crazy. But I don't, but in the pageantry circuit, I don't think it's that weird, which she was in.
00:25:23
Yes, except for... That was my point is no one talks about that the pageantry circuit is basically
00:25:31
a strange, weird commercial for pedophiles. And there's no reason you should have a six-year-old girl
00:25:38
dressed like an Atlanta heiress or Harris. There's no reason we should be seeing a little girl
00:25:46
basically cosplaying an adult rich woman. Okay, here's my thing with JonBenet Ramsey.
00:25:53
the whole case is that I will argue the opposite of anything that's argued. Yes.
00:25:57
Because there's such a huge argument because it's, there's never going to be any conclusions.
00:26:01
Yes. And every single piece of evidence, and I wrote some of them down, has an argument for the other side.
00:26:07
Right. Exactly. And that's what I kind of love about this is because I really don't like being like,
00:26:12
this is my opinion and here's the argument why and I won't listen to you and your opinion.
00:26:17
It's like- I'm not doing that. Not you. No, no, no, no, no. I mean like any other debate that people have.
00:26:22
Right. No, exactly. I don't mean you. When people absolutely decide how they feel
00:26:26
and won't come off of it. No, I totally, I agree that in every other way, except for it unnerves me how normalized
00:26:34
the pageant system is, where it's only little girls. But that's the thing is that it is normalized
00:26:41
for certain people, including Patsy Ramsey, who was a pageant queen. And they're from the South.
00:26:47
Yes, true. So it wasn't that weird to her. It wasn't like she was in her mind abusing this girl and dying her hair.
00:26:54
It was like, I don't think it's necessarily abuse. I just think it's a, you're putting shit on a child,
00:27:01
a little girl long before she needs to be dealing with it. I completely agree with all of it.
00:27:06
I just don't. It's just like when people present, not you, when it is presented that there are,
00:27:14
there is proof that this is why these, why she was murdered by the parents and how fucked up these things were.
00:27:20
I just don't think they are. Like a lot of them aren't. No, no, I'm not. I'm not arguing that the pageants prove they did it.
00:27:26
I'm arguing that the that dying a six year old's hair shows very bad decision making skills
00:27:33
and and just a weird. Yeah. But these are people that like, I also didn't know they had two of their own planes.
00:27:39
I didn't know they were the level of rich that they are. If you're arguing that dying a four year old's hair blonde
00:27:46
is proof that this parent doesn't have the child's best interest in mind. And therefore, it makes sense why she would have been part of the,
00:27:58
maybe the murder or the cover up. But I agree with you. Yeah, yeah. That makes sense to me.
00:28:02
Yeah. Man, should we get into this? Yeah. I'm sorry to tell you, we're in. Do you want to start?
00:28:08
We're in. Are we starting now? Steven, can you? Steven, hit play. Can you delete?
00:28:15
Oh, man. I mean, okay, the CBS thing. And one of the rules on our Facebook group
00:28:21
is don't talk shit about other podcasts. That's right. And the hosts of the CBS show have a true crime podcast.
00:28:28
Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. Steven, let me go ahead and look that up. If you don't mind.
00:28:34
I just think, so I liked them a lot and I think they had the best interest and I think they're integrity-based people.
00:28:44
I just think that the moment you are clearly going for a certain, what's the word?
00:28:51
Agenda, like an angle. Agenda, you can't, like the moment I saw that John Ramsey was being interviewed for one of
00:28:57
the documentaries, I was like, I was out because he wouldn't agree to do it unless the agenda
00:29:02
wasn't. It was throw him. Yeah. Yes, that's right. So what did you think about Burke Ramsey's interview with, I didn't watch it.
00:29:11
I watched clips. Oh, on Dr. Phil? Yeah. I didn't watch it either. But you saw that he was smiling through a lot of it.
00:29:16
Yes. I think that Burke Ramsey might be on the spectrum. That's what I thought too.
00:29:20
I don't think it's fair to... I don't think any of this is fair. The smiling isn't a sign of anything.
00:29:26
No, that's nerves. Yeah. Here's the thing. If you have been around TV or done TV,
00:29:32
I've watched a lot of people act super weird on TV. Especially, I don't know. Was that whole thing pre-taped?
00:29:41
Like there was no audience when he was talking to Dr. Phil? No audience. Yeah. See, and I think I said this before,
00:29:47
but the reason I didn't watch it is because I have a friend who's a producer on it
00:29:50
and she was like, nothing came of it. They didn't reveal anything. So then I was like,
00:29:53
oh, it's boring. But then a bunch of people started tweeting at us of like this behavior and all this different stuff It was definitely weird behavior but I don think it was indicative of someone who is guilty or innocent or you can read anything out of it
00:30:07
Is it was it weird for a person that has two planes? I mean, like this is a person that's never world.
00:30:12
Literally never done an interview before in his life. No. And probably never had to really be in the world in a real way in his life.
00:30:20
and so I think the reason this whole interview happened is because he they somehow knew that
00:30:25
the CBS documentary was coming out that kind of pointed towards him so this is like a quick
00:30:30
fuck let's let's get this out before that comes out so he maybe didn't even want to do it
00:30:37
no way did he want to do it he's freaked out oh my god there's so much to talk about but he also
00:30:44
you know there he's already suing CBS is he really that's what that's what someone told
00:30:48
me at work today because we were all talking about it this morning. Yeah. And because I said,
00:30:52
everyone was talking about why possibly would they have reduced it from three or four episodes to two.
00:30:57
And I was saying it could have been a thing where they let them do it, but they said,
00:31:02
because I'm obsessed, of course, with the pageant part and the, and any kind of the, any,
00:31:09
it felt like any, they just dismiss any, any kind of sexual molestation or anything.
00:31:14
they just dismissed it out of hand, which seems very unlikely to me. I wrote that in the Elle article that it's like...
00:31:22
Oh yeah, I'm ripping you off from the Elle article. Can you not? I'm going to sue you for...
00:31:27
It was my idea. I'm going to sue you for what's it called when someone copies your shit?
00:31:30
Just copying. Make me sound smarter in that clip. All right. Okay. Who's looking for the button?
00:31:38
I know. Your button knows? Here's the stuff I liked from, that I didn't know about from the CBS show. I really loved,
00:31:48
I love handwriting and linguistic analysis. I think it's fucking fascinating. Yeah.
00:31:52
The fact that someone pointed out that no one would ever write that they were a small
00:31:56
foreign faction. Yes. You make yourself seem bigger. Right. You don't seem like you're a small little group of people.
00:32:03
Yes. Very interesting. And also no one calls themselves foreign. right exactly and um if you are a band getting together right now and you don't name yourself
00:32:13
small foreign faction you're a fucking idiot i'll murder you yeah punk rockers get it together
00:32:18
i know that there was like all those things about the phrasing yeah and the like and sorry if i'm
00:32:25
jumping on this on yours but i was freaking out when they got to the part where the the ransom
00:32:30
letter quotes speed. I didn't know. Dirty Harry. Dirty Harry. It's just like you, how, so if,
00:32:38
if this is Patsy and John and they're covering up, you know, the one theory that they were really
00:32:43
shoving in your face on the CBS one, um, if that was true, then they really think that they're so
00:32:53
much smarter than everybody else that they can add in lines from the movie speed and have nobody
00:32:59
catch on. They absolutely do. Okay. Really quick. Steven was like brought his phone over me to show
00:33:02
me a thing that I asked him and I completely forgot what I had asked him. So I was like,
00:33:05
what is he? I don't remember what I'm... Okay. The podcast that the hosts of the CBS show do is
00:33:10
Real Crime Profile, which I listened to. It's a great podcast. Oh, okay. Yes, I agree. Let's... You know what? Let's... Okay. So let's start. You ready to start?
00:33:20
Let's... What is your theory? Like overall, like what's your favorite theory? Oh, I think that... I think it was Burke.
00:33:28
Okay. How do we think? I think Burke got angry and didn't, I don't think he meant to do it.
00:33:37
No, I don't either. I don't think, I think he wanted to hurt her. Yeah. I think that, but a lot of the stuff that they named
00:33:45
that was like, oh, you know, God forbid that he do this or that is all stuff little kids do.
00:33:50
Brothers and sisters especially are really mean and vicious with each other. So like a lot of that stuff didn't freak me out
00:33:56
because it's like, yeah, you hit, you hit your brother or sister with a piece of train track or whatever.
00:34:02
My sister and I used to, I've talked about it before, getting into fights where you're being beaten with a remote control and shit.
00:34:09
The first time I got punched in the stomach was when I was like five by my sister.
00:34:12
Yeah. Like that standard thing. Because you, as a kid, you don't know how strong you are.
00:34:17
You don't know how much it hurts. And you're angry and you have no parental supervision.
00:34:21
I wrote an article that our friend Kat Solon, her brother bears her childhood teeth mark scar on his body because they were so angry
00:34:32
that they did that. You just get angry at people. And also it's the thing of if he did that and he
00:34:40
was super angry and it does make sense that she's the little princess that gets all of the mom's
00:34:45
attention and he was older. It would have been different if he was younger, but he's older. So
00:34:50
he was used to having all of her attention and then that got kind of redirected, which is very
00:34:54
painful and awful. If he already was having a little bit of like developmental or if there's
00:35:00
just some issue with like, he's a little slower, he's a little bit emotionally off, whatever it is.
00:35:06
Yeah. Which a lot of things I read say he was a little bit of a weird kid, which I mean,
00:35:10
I grew up with a weird kid. I understand that they're... Weird. Yeah. Yes. That doesn't mean they're... Yeah.
00:35:17
Here's the thing my sister said. She texted me and said, the thing with the feces is really bad.
00:35:24
That's usually a sign of sexual molestation. The wetting the bed thing. So JonBenet wet her bed regularly.
00:35:31
They said Brooke might have too. That to me is hard because I wet my bed later than I should have.
00:35:37
I did too. I sucked my thumb until like second grade. I was never molested. Right.
00:35:43
So you can't just say that definitively. No. But the shit thing. Shit is a much bigger deal because even when you little you don it not natural to like it was as if they were saying and I don know any more than what they presented on that Yeah it was as if they were saying he like would shit on her stuff or he would like wipe shit places
00:36:06
And my sister has been a grammar school teacher for over 20 years. She has a master's degree in like in developmental education or whatever.
00:36:16
I'm not exactly sure. But I think fix that in post. Fix her degree. but essentially this is what she does
00:36:24
and deals with kids a lot that are going through this and she was just like that's bad
00:36:28
that's the worst thing she heard in the whole thing was anytime a kid has like got his hands in shit
00:36:34
and he's not a baby well she had this is the thing they revealed in the CVS thing
00:36:39
is that she had a great fruit sized shit in her bed right that sounds painful and fucked up
00:36:48
and not normal at all No, like he was collecting it or No, that she just saved having to go to the
00:36:57
She was so uncomfortable going to the bathroom That she waited until she was in bed
00:37:00
Oh, I thought he put it there From what, because they said the maid found it Right
00:37:06
And I was thinking that he was like trying to wreck her shit Because the other stuff
00:37:10
Or make her look like a gross Yes Can I say that like I kind of I feel bad for Burke in this whole thing
00:37:18
It's very bad And then I read something I made everyone on our Facebook group and send us their theories and send us what they found that was interesting and their thoughts and everything.
00:37:27
And one of them was that Burke actually doesn't even know that he doesn't know that he caused that blow.
00:37:37
He might have done it and they were like, go to bed. Yeah. He doesn't remember it.
00:37:42
He maybe somewhere deep down does, but he doesn't know that he put that whole thing into action.
00:37:47
I feel bad for this kid who clearly has some issues. I think he knows something though,
00:37:51
because remember that interview he has with the cop and he won't say the cop's like,
00:37:55
yeah, what's in the bowl? And he just won't say it. Like there's those weird things.
00:37:59
He goes, oh. So in the CBS documentary, they show clips, which is like, I could watch this for hours
00:38:05
of Burke being interviewed by a psychologist or social worker post, like when he was a kid.
00:38:12
The only time they, there was two times they let him be questioned. and in it, you know, they're talking and I actually, it's amazing. They show him a photo
00:38:22
of this, the table, the crime scene table, which has a bowl of pineapple out with Burke's
00:38:29
fingerprints on it and in JonBenet's stomach after she died is an undigested piece of pineapple.
00:38:35
Right. And so the, the social worker, the psychologist shows Burke a photo of the pineapple and says,
00:38:41
what is this? Or shows him the bowl of pineapple. And he says, I don't know. It looks like cereal.
00:38:46
or something. And he says, well, what could that be? And then Burke goes, oh, like he knows not to
00:38:53
say what it is. Yes. That's weird. But it's like a, you know, a little kid thinking he's outsmarting
00:39:01
someone. And there's this, you're watching from this camera overhead. He also is in a very weird
00:39:07
physical position in that chair. He's very weird physically. He's very antsy in a weird way.
00:39:12
But he gets down on all fours when he's looking at that picture. And I understand it's like a kid's way, like almost like child's pose.
00:39:19
Yeah. But to me in that situation, it gave me the creeps. Like it was just weird.
00:39:25
He was, he wasn't, he was very stilted in his voice, but he looked incredibly comfortable.
00:39:30
Yeah. It was almost like chill. He was chill. It was weird. How do we, okay. So like my theory, in my mind, the mastermind of this whole fucking entire thing, which is
00:39:41
that Burke unknowingly hit her over the head or threw a flashlight through. Someone mentioned maybe he didn't actually like hit her.
00:39:50
Maybe he threw this flashlight at her. Yeah. And this happened and it was staged.
00:39:57
In my mind, the mastermind of the whole thing is not Patsy who is just being thrown out of the bus
00:40:03
fucking completely in this whole thing. It's someone who's still alive. And so I'm scared to-
00:40:09
It's John Ramsey. It's John Ramsey. I really think John Ramsey is the fucking entire mastermind because,
00:40:14
and another thing I was thinking too, is that like their interviews post right after what happened are creepy and
00:40:22
fucking weird. The CNN interview. Yeah. Like all of their, like that them calling the press to give an interview.
00:40:28
And you had mentioned it before that, that when someone asked to ask Patsy, who's clearly on fucking Valium.
00:40:34
Yes. She's on so many pills. Yeah. They ask her, do you think it was an outside intruder?
00:40:38
And she's shaking her head. No, with her eyes closed. And the minute John says yes,
00:40:42
she starts to nod yes. Yeah, she goes into this weird circle and then tries to like...
00:40:47
Yeah. But she also does... She's doing a lot of like long blinking. Yep. And it's almost like she just doesn't want to...
00:40:54
She just wants to disappear. Well, here's what I think. Okay, I definitely think Patsy wrote the note,
00:40:59
the ransom letter. It's not a fucking note. No, it's a four-page letter. I think Berg accidentally hit her.
00:41:04
I think they conspired to cover it up maybe with John being the mastermind. Right.
00:41:12
I think he took her downstairs, Jean Benet's body downstairs to make it staged as a kidnapping.
00:41:19
And I don't think Patsy realized the extent of how he covered it up. Right. I think she thought he'd put a pillow over her face.
00:41:29
She thought she would be suffocated. But when Patsy found out the extent of what he did to her body,
00:41:37
I think then she, and she still had to go with it. Yeah. I think that that's why she was so freaked out by it.
00:41:43
I don't think she was like. Do you know what I mean? Yes. And that's a horrible idea.
00:41:49
Like just that you would be put in that position as a mother. Yeah. The one that gives me more comfort because it so much less tragic And it based on that 911 dispatcher who suddenly was under a gag order for years and never talked to anybody And no one ever tried to interview her
00:42:05
But here's the thing that's weird to me. No one ever tried to interview her and she wasn't under a gag order.
00:42:10
So when was the gag order lifted that she can be talking on this documentary? I don't think it ever was.
00:42:14
I think she was just like, all right, clearly no one's going for it. I think once they exonerated...
00:42:18
The Ramseys? The Ramseys, it was just gone. Well, what was interesting to me is she said that that moment
00:42:24
where Patsy thought she hung up the phone. I never knew about that either, that Patsy makes this 911 call,
00:42:30
which I didn't listen. I, of course, heard snippets here and there, but I cannot listen to it.
00:42:34
It's horrifying. Well, and especially because it's bad acting. From that alone, if you just made me guess off the 911 call,
00:42:41
I'd say they're complicit in some way. But that Patsy thinks she hangs the phone up
00:42:48
and then they're recording what's happening in their kitchen and the 911 operator is on the line listening and trying to listen.
00:42:57
Okay. And the thing, well, just the one thing that that 911 operator said was her tone once she was like so hysterical and get someone here, get someone here.
00:43:06
A, you don't hang up the phone when your child is missing and that's your lifeline.
00:43:11
Hanging up the phone is crazy. And then B, her vocal tone changes immediately to the point where that's what gave that 911 dispatcher the creeps.
00:43:20
Because she's hysterical. She's freaking out. she's not answering the 911 dispatcher's questions. The minute she says, who are you?
00:43:28
She clearly states her name, everything. I'm the mother and clearly gives an answer.
00:43:36
Yes. Suddenly the hysteria isn't so out of control. And it's true that I like this in the CBS documentary where they said,
00:43:43
you don't hang up on a 911 call. No, no one does. No one hangs up. It's your lifeline.
00:43:48
That was the coolest part. I mean, I understand. Look, this is just like Jack the Ripper.
00:43:52
where there's so many experts now and there's so many theories that it's just out of control.
00:43:58
It's never gonna, I don't think it'll ever be solved. I don't, no, unless there's something,
00:44:01
something gets dug up, like literally, or, you know, some hidden thing. I didn't,
00:44:07
I don't hear what they, I didn't hear at the end of the 911 call to hang up what is purported to be said.
00:44:16
By who? By anyone in the family. I believe the 911 operator when she says, I heard,
00:44:21
I thought I heard Patsy say, I called the police, now what? Yeah. That sounds more believable to me than when they did the whole gimmick of slowing down
00:44:34
the 911 call and slowing down people heard in the background and whose voice is whose.
00:44:38
You hear what you want to hear. Yes. That's very true. And also that part was ludicrous because, well, it was just TV.
00:44:46
I mean, that's the part where I was just sitting there going, oh, they're really trying to
00:44:49
stretch this out. I bet you when they cut that other stuff in the other episodes,
00:44:53
they had to go back and like fill time or something because that was so ludicrous.
00:44:57
First of all, every sound editor in the world would watch that and just be like,
00:45:00
these are the people I hate working with. You don't have to tell me that we need to go back
00:45:04
and reduce the noise because clearly that's, until you can hear what people are saying,
00:45:08
we have to keep on trying to clarify the clip. Yeah. Like that idea that they were sitting next to that man going,
00:45:13
bring this down and bring this up. Do this. Yeah. Yeah, the guy actually knows how to use the machine.
00:45:19
And the moment someone tells you what they're hearing, you hear it too. Of course.
00:45:23
Even if it's not there. And especially with something like this, where it's like, you're hearing Patsy Ramsey's voice.
00:45:28
You're hearing John Ramsey's voice. Yeah. But at the same time, what they're arguing by hearing Brooke Ramsey's voice at the end of that is that he wasn't in bed.
00:45:39
And I have a lot of problems with the idea that he was in bed through the whole time.
00:45:43
because A, why when you just found out that your child is kidnapped and gone, would you let your other child be somewhere else?
00:45:54
You would grab the other child and make sure they're by your fucking side. That's the first thing you would do.
00:45:58
The first thing you would do. Yes. Why didn't he get out of bed when he heard his mom flipping the fuck out
00:46:03
to see what was going on and what was wrong? Well, what he said in those interviews
00:46:06
is he's a real deep sleeper all the time, always. Right. He's using words like I'm always,
00:46:11
I never hear anything. I'm always a deep sleeper. Okay. Correct. Yep. So that's,
00:46:18
why would they lie about that? Because they're lying, because the whole thing is bullshit.
00:46:23
And I mean, that kind of thing where like, the 911 dispatcher heard things that even if she didn't hear exact words,
00:46:30
like she was talking about the vocal tone changed. So she knows that Patsy thought
00:46:35
the phone was hung up and suddenly the like act was dropped. And that's what she was hearing.
00:46:41
Maybe she got the words wrong or right. We don't know. But like that in and of itself. Also, when Burke goes, what did you find? Right.
00:46:49
That little quote, which you can hear pretty clearly. But it's like it's such a weird little
00:46:54
voice. Like he's you don't hear. He doesn't sound scared. He doesn't sound upset. He sounds like
00:47:00
someone that's going through that with not a lot of worry. OK, so what about OK, why would let's say
00:47:06
that they all had something to do with it. She wrote the nine one one. I mean, the ransom letter.
00:47:11
why would they call 911 immediately without getting rid of the body in the morning like why
00:47:20
wouldn't they why wouldn't he have taken the body out and and disposed of it I mean who the fuck
00:47:27
knows because I think it's because it's still their daughter so they're not going to leave their
00:47:31
daughter at the garbage dump problem with this case too is that there's so many things I've heard
00:47:36
about, for example, that there was a book, there was a dictionary in someone's study turned to the
00:47:42
word incest. The only place I've ever seen that is in, you know, forums of people writing about
00:47:49
the case. I've never seen that in a, in a actual, you know, crime scene write up.
00:47:57
Yeah. That sounds like something a seventh grade girl would say. Yeah. There's so,
00:48:00
much shit there was a book open on the desk you guys there was so much shit there was so much shit
00:48:05
that i'm like well i heard this thing was what they found but it's not in the autopsy report so
00:48:11
why would it yeah it's just it's like weird gossip because people start talking about stuff like this
00:48:15
and suddenly it takes on a life of its own but here's the thing i thought when they were going
00:48:21
over all those crime the crime scene footage who the fuck sees that their son killed their daughter
00:48:27
by hitting her on the head with a flashlight, takes that flashlight, sticks it on the kitchen counter
00:48:32
and leaves it there. That's the thing that you would dump and get rid of. And that's the thing that baffled.
00:48:37
I kept saying, is this picture from earlier where they just know for a fact they own this flashlight.
00:48:43
But no, but here, but okay. Well, I'm gonna immediately argue the other way because I can and I like it.
00:48:49
Yes. You're fucking freaking out. You had to start a ransom note twice, three times because you're freaking out.
00:48:57
You don't think to move this one piece. I just don't think you think everything through.
00:49:04
And there's no blood on it, as they showed by having this fucking most fucked up kid in the world
00:49:10
hit a goddamn mannequin with pigskin and a wig. All of that was like, all of that, I say shame on you, CBS,
00:49:16
because that was not necessary. It was super creepy. He looked like a little child actor,
00:49:21
but his eyes were a bit wild. The whole thing of that was gross. Honestly, that whole time I felt so bad for the hosts
00:49:27
because you can tell that the producer was like, you have to fucking do this. And both the hosts were like,
00:49:34
I'm a fucking journalist. I'm a fucking like... We're trying to find out actual answers.
00:49:40
And you need this clip. A six foot cop who is 200 pounds is being tased to show what it might have been like
00:49:48
for Jean Benet, which is like, sorry, none of this equates. This is that, that and when they were in a parking lot and the hosts were going to go speak to the Ramses that couldn't be recorded.
00:50:00
And there was a whole like five minutes of that, of them waiting around in the parking lot for the host to come back and talk about unnecessary.
00:50:09
The whole thing was unnecessary. It was, they were, I think they were trying to be verite, but it was also, they're like, so we've got this insane interview that we've been waiting for.
00:50:19
but the guy's like not on camera, but I'll tell you what I know. Yeah. You just can't record it.
00:50:24
So they need to, they need the, what do you call it? Like they need the authenticity of the fact
00:50:31
that they got this huge get of an interview. Like this is legitimate because we're actually speaking to them.
00:50:36
It also shows to me as a person that's worked in TV for a long time, the run and gun style
00:50:42
where you have to make up solutions on the fly. And if you were thinking it would be cool to work in TV.
00:50:50
Just go and look at Eddie Schmidt, the producer of the show, standing in the Safeway parking lot,
00:50:56
watching all the beautiful SUVs drive away while he stands there with the cameraman.
00:51:00
For four and a half hours, probably. Waiting. Yeah, they ate a bunch of Safeway donuts
00:51:04
and just kicked it, waiting to find out what happened because that's what it's really like.
00:51:10
And you know what? Okay, here's a fucking thing. Maybe they did talk to the fucking whites on camera
00:51:15
and the whites said the same thing they always say. very fucking, you know, bullet pointed and it wasn't as interesting. And so they said,
00:51:24
let's pretend like they wouldn't speak to us. Yes. Is that a thing? Well, yeah, because the thing that I was shocked by, another piece of information,
00:51:32
was that Fleet White wrote an open letter telling John Ramsey, you need to cooperate with the police.
00:51:39
That's crazy. They were, the whites came over the morning of the murder. They were the first group of people there.
00:51:46
They were the first call after the phony 911 call. And Fleet White was with John Ramsey when he found JonBenet's body.
00:51:51
I wonder if those two people feel used as fuck. Well, they were. Yeah. They were.
00:51:57
Because that's another thing they talked about is that's a very common thing. Invite someone in to witness you finding the body.
00:52:04
You don't find the body alone if you've done it. Yes. You bring people in to witness.
00:52:09
That was fucking fascinating. Yes. There's a lot of like, if you choose to look at it through this one angle.
00:52:17
Right. Which I think we should do the opposite in a minute too. I think we should look at it from an intruder angle.
00:52:22
But in that way, a man who has two planes, first of all, sidebar, for people, for millionaires,
00:52:31
a millionaire's house is kind of a shitty house. It was clearly pre the declutter trend of the mid 2000s
00:52:39
because there was so much shit everywhere. And it was like, there was like fake autumn leaves
00:52:44
that were plastic in a drawer that was hanging down from the top of a like shelving system.
00:52:49
It was like, sorry, you're rich. What is this house? And when they went to like open JonBenet's bedroom door,
00:52:55
there were all those hand marks on the outside. Did you see that? Like a finger marks or like kids grabbing the door.
00:53:01
It just was like, it was weird to me. And this whole time when they say her body was found in the wine cellar,
00:53:07
I'm picturing a wine cellar. No, that was the most depressing, creepy room I've ever seen.
00:53:11
It was a cement room where they threw old shit and maybe kept some wine. I don't know.
00:53:15
But like it, the whole thing was, there was a lot of cognitive dissonance. Can I tell you that when they were doing the like walkthrough of it, I was the king.
00:53:24
I watch a shit ton of HGTV. And the whole time I was like, well, you take down this wall and you open the basement up.
00:53:30
So it could be like a man cave and it have an open concept thing. And this spiral staircase is so dated and unnecessary.
00:53:37
Like the whole time I was like thinking of the Property Brothers being like, you take this fucking wall down.
00:53:41
The spiral staircase, it looks like something that would be in my hometown in a house that was left over from 1965.
00:53:50
Like, it is so weird and tacky. And like if you ever gone down one of those metal spiral staircases in a house it feels like you going to die the whole time You going to fall fucking face forward into the other the bar that on the next spiral It so weird That whole part
00:54:05
But I guess my point actually was super rich people like that, that are kind of,
00:54:09
they're the people, they don't even fly first class. They don't fly commercial at all.
00:54:15
Oh, wait, they get their own fucking planes. They have private planes. They're private plane rich.
00:54:19
These are people who think they can get away with whatever because they already are up above
00:54:24
the fray. They are not anywhere near Judy and Johnny Lunchbox. How crazy is it that she was 21
00:54:30
years old when they got married? Yeah. And he'd already had a whole family. He was, what, then, I think he was like 16
00:54:36
years older than her. That means he was like in his mid, late 30s. Yeah. 21-year-old girl that he
00:54:44
marries. Yep. I mean, we've all met 21-year-olds. They're fucking idiots. Yeah, even that seems uncommon these days.
00:54:51
Like 21 is a bit of a throwback. So he marries this trophy wife. They have a trophy daughter.
00:55:00
And that their place son. All right. Their house is ugly. I liked that it was told that 76% of the ransom note was bullshit.
00:55:11
Erroneous. Yeah. Too much. All you needed was these four lines. They're selling.
00:55:16
They kept saying the phrase they're selling. They're selling it. Yeah. That there wasn't, there didn't need to be blood from the blow to the head,
00:55:23
even though they showed it in the worst way possible. That was interesting. Also, so you get, you see this ransom note letter.
00:55:31
It says, don't call the fucking cops or we'll behead your daughter multiple times.
00:55:36
Yes. The first thing they do is call the cops. Yes. Why is that? Even if... Because they wrote the letter
00:55:44
and they know it's not actually going to happen. Even if the letter wasn't, even if they didn't do it and the letter was found,
00:55:51
they still made so many mistakes and and it was still a fake ransom note no matter
00:55:59
that's what's so hard about it is no matter what it was a fake ransom note yes that's 100% true
00:56:03
so it's hard to be like who wrote this ransom note you can't be like but it was a fake ransom note
00:56:08
so the parents didn't no the ransom note was fake no matter what yes there's no small foreign faction
00:56:13
no and the kid was already dead yes in the basement right so it's like and you clearly didn't bring this
00:56:19
if the ransom note had been brought in and then she was found dead, it would have been like, oh, they meant to kidnap
00:56:26
her, but it didn't happen. Right. Also, the point they made very early and that is like, to me,
00:56:32
the proof of almost everything is you don't kidnap a six-year-old girl out of a millionaire's house
00:56:38
and ask for $100,000. That's the dumbest fucking part of it where it's like you have a living child.
00:56:45
It's millions. You ask for millions and you know this person's a millionaire. They talk about him.
00:56:50
They talk about him as if they know him so personally. Well, they say a couple of things in it.
00:56:53
They say that get it out of your account so they know that that's how much, but he has at least that in his account.
00:56:59
Not get the fucking money no matter what you can do. Yeah. The other thing is get a big enough, quote, attache case.
00:57:06
Who gives a shit what size bag? You know, get a brown paper bag. You don't need to tell this person that.
00:57:12
Get this much money, period. Yes. Well, that's, yeah, that's clearly someone just having,
00:57:18
thinking way too hard about this. And also believing their own shit. Like that's that thing where
00:57:24
instead of having the self-consciousness to go, is this believable or whatever? It was just like sit down
00:57:29
and have a creative writing session. Yeah. And saying, get some rest. You're going to,
00:57:35
this is going to be complicated. It's like she, okay, let's just say it was Patsy writing this thing.
00:57:40
She sat down at a desk. She started out. But he might've been dictating. He could have been dictating.
00:57:45
It was her handwriting. She was a journalist major too. so she knows how to write.
00:57:49
Yes. Go on, sorry. No, no, no. But it is just that idea of like, you get started,
00:57:55
you're already got the adrenaline running, some insane shit. You're in a surreal place anyway.
00:58:00
Then you just start kind of going for it where you're quoting speed. Yeah. You're like, here's what...
00:58:06
The girl dies. Here's what people who have seen too many movies about it think that a ransom letter is written.
00:58:14
What about just, can we skip to the part where they interviewed the Gardner and he talked about Patsy Ramsey
00:58:21
coming out to talk about the OJ verdict. That part, I was like, I don't care what else happens in this thing.
00:58:29
The idea that there's a first person eyewitness talking about Patsy Ramsey's reaction to OJ.
00:58:36
Which is that you can get away with murder in America. Yes. But there was also just, it was that,
00:58:41
but then it was also just the general kind of mashup of like, this is like pop culture gone mad.
00:58:46
on my TV right now. It's interesting how much the OJ, the Simpsons had to do with this murder,
00:58:54
like how much they were affected by each other. And you know, I was reading some of the movie quotes
00:59:01
and how similar they were. And there were also people online who are fucking brilliant,
00:59:05
interesting people who say, here's when this movie showed in Boulder, like near the date of her murder.
00:59:12
Like the night before one of the movies was played on TV. Oh my God. You know, November 29th,
00:59:20
this movie was played on TV in Boulder. It's really fucking interesting. See, that's the shit.
00:59:25
Like that really is, it's the wave of the future. It's people, armchair detectives
00:59:33
who are going to solve the big stuff. Because that's the kind of stuff that, you know,
00:59:38
like if cops and all those cops that talk like that one investigator that quit because he was like,
00:59:44
this is disgusting. Loved seeing him young and then seeing him interviewed. He was hot.
00:59:50
Super fucking hot. He was hot. And also just his like burning sense of justice was delicious Oh my God And he was just like I want him to to win Yeah And it that thing of like well he quits
01:00:05
so then nothing goes forward. But then it's like, yeah, but or he stays and goes insane
01:00:09
or takes the fall or it's just that. Or hates himself for the rest of his life because he didn't do the right,
01:00:16
he didn't do anything. Right. Quitting sometimes is like the only way you can show
01:00:19
how passionate you are about something. Right. It's a state, it's a real political statement.
01:00:23
And if he was told, this has become a political situation, then he has to be political too.
01:00:29
You just have to play on the playing field. Well, them saying that everyone indict,
01:00:34
everyone voted to indict the Ramseys for having some hand in JonBenet dying and the fucking police chief.
01:00:47
Just being like, no thanks. Giving a news conference that they're not doing it. Now, one of the very first Last Podcast on the Left episodes I listened to on your recommendation was their JonBenet Ramsey.
01:01:00
Is it two part? Yes, at least. Last Podcast on the Left has a two part JonBenet Ramsey episode.
01:01:05
That is fucking incredible. So thoroughly researched. Yeah. It's so awesome. And we're back here.
01:01:15
We're back here to really review something else we're reviewing from the past. I'm proud of myself for having the stance even back then of like, let's not use the word panties. Why are grown, educated people casually, scientifically throwing out the word panties?
01:01:33
I feel like that and when someone else pointed it out and I just got to be there to observe talking about we don't call it kiddie porn.
01:01:43
Right. This is it's CSA child sexual assault materials. Like that idea of it is part of the problem.
01:01:51
Totally. And is part of like the delineation that needs to be made of like the casualness, the grossness, and also the kind of maybe insinuating that anybody is there voluntarily or happily.
01:02:03
Right. It's not porn. It's not the same thing as porn. No. At all. But really indicative of this was this.
01:02:11
It's just weird to me how much this show, like, it doesn't feel like it was that long ago.
01:02:16
It was a really long time ago. I was almost like, now we're back in 2024. But no, we're not.
01:02:21
We're now in 2025 even. Yeah. That's so, almost 10 fucking years. Yeah, let's get back into the episode, shall we?
01:02:29
All right. Let's get back into the rest of the story. Your husband is not who you think he is.
01:02:39
Your body is not what you thought it was. Your identity is formed by a secret history.
01:02:44
I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
01:02:52
Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
01:03:01
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
01:03:08
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
01:03:14
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
01:03:19
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
01:03:24
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
01:03:29
Listen to Season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:03:36
Joy is essential, and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
01:03:46
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
01:03:57
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
01:04:06
I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl. This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
01:04:13
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.
01:04:20
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
01:04:29
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:04:40
One of the, to me, most fascinating parts was them talking about how John Ramsey is a millionaire
01:04:47
because he's got this computer programming company or some computer something company,
01:04:51
but that they don't really know what it does. It has a government contract, I believe they said.
01:04:57
And he makes millions of dollars a year, but they can't really figure out what he does.
01:05:02
We got to ask Mr. Robot. That's right. He keeps coming back. Mr. Robot got to shut him down.
01:05:07
And then we got to go to Rahm Emanuel and be like, what the fuck? Are you doing later?
01:05:12
This happens and are you doing later? But I just thought that was it. I love that theory because I love...
01:05:19
There is some bigger thing at work that's keeping the district attorney of Boulder
01:05:25
underneath John Ramsey's thumb. Why does he have that much power? Aside from just money, there's got...
01:05:31
Well, since... I mean, this is so dumb, but since watching Mr. Robot, hacking emails seems like a very easy thing to do.
01:05:39
Yes. Hacking fucking internet searches. You have some shit on someone and Oh, so you think he did that to them?
01:05:48
Maybe they have some shit on the fucking chief of police. You know? Sure. Emails I mean let go to the fucking obvious Child pornography Right Anything Yeah And he knows about it before even the police would know Sure That fascinating
01:06:06
I liked how they jump straight to Patsy as an MKUltra robot. Yeah. I just, well, I wrote, let's go back to my Elle article.
01:06:17
I wrote in it that how beautiful would it be if it was MKUltra or if it was, god damn it steven steven the moment i said mk ultra steven's phone started barking
01:06:30
and it's like the mk ultra the government's trying to shut us down we don't give a fuck
01:06:35
we're talking about it steven you're fired steven no you're not steven you're rehired at a higher
01:06:40
rate elvis you're in uh yeah i i would love it if it were that simple that and interesting and
01:06:50
interesting and not awful. But the reality is like parents kill their children more than strangers
01:06:58
kill their children or kill people's children. Yes. It's always from the family. That's it.
01:07:03
That's the first place they look for a reason. It's usually an inside job and it's also the
01:07:09
darkest choice. So it's the biggest bummer that most people don't want to look at it all. I know.
01:07:14
Because that's anybody. It's horrible. Yeah. I think, I mean, go, it's hard to find them actually.
01:07:20
I was looking for them today, but the initial press interviews with John Ramsey, which you can
01:07:26
see in the CBS doc are cold and creepy. Yeah. He's a real creeper. I don't think that that
01:07:32
necessarily, like as people have said about many people in this series, like, I think we're just
01:07:40
learning now how people grieve, what they look like when they're under pressure and all this
01:07:44
stuff. And you know, I agree with that all completely, but this is fucking goodbye. Let's
01:07:50
move on. Yes. It's, it's very, um, it's so telling once you relook at it and like under,
01:07:59
aside from thinking exactly who did it or exactly what the situation was, I just know that like
01:08:05
my father, like if you're talking about someone who just died, you, you, even if you're a man and
01:08:14
a strong man and you were in a war, you whatever. Yeah. Your child, you would get choked up. You
01:08:20
just, that's, the words are coming out of your mouth and you're listening to them.
01:08:24
If you have a total disconnect, then you give a great press conference. Can I say, let me, let's impart a personal part of this because people fucking love that. But
01:08:34
when I was like 13 and on drugs and like a really bad kid and one night I just didn't come home
01:08:41
and my sister had dropped me off somewhere and I just went out with my fucking punk rock friends
01:08:45
and my parents called the police and were freaking out. And my brother later said to me,
01:08:52
like the next, when I finally came home and I just been on drugs all night was like,
01:08:56
and he lived with my dad. He said, I heard dad in the other room weeping, weeping. And my dad's not like that. And I fucking, that was one of the things that made
01:09:05
me stop doing drugs. It's the thought of my dad weeping at me just not being home.
01:09:10
Right. So the fact that he's just, I mean, I know we all react differently. Yes. But the reaction, his fucking demeanor is cold. Cold. It's incredibly cold. He doesn't put his arm around his wife who's crying. No, there's a real like, he has a real B of A bank manager feel to him where he's letting you know your house is getting foreclosed on.
01:09:35
And I don't have, I have shut myself off from other people's emotions for so long that I just don't care.
01:09:43
Well, and also like he's in business mode where this is an emergency. All the like emergency cord got pulled and now that's the mode he's in and he's completely like compartmentalized all of everything.
01:09:55
The emergency garrot got pulled. Oh, dude, that thing is such a bummer. I think he was in the Navy.
01:10:04
Is that true? He worked for a small foreign faction in the Philippines. Is that true?
01:10:10
And their SBTC has something to do with the Navy. Oh, is that true? It's absolutely true.
01:10:19
Victory? Is signing things- Oh, I wrote a thing. Is signing things victory with an exclamation point from the Navy?
01:10:25
Because that's so stupid. Although I am changing my email signature. Do you dare me?
01:10:32
I might do it right. Oh my God, do it. Okay, so I read- Victory! Victory! I read a bunch of shit of like, I read a bunch of, mostly the comments on people's blog posts
01:10:41
about what it was were fucking more interesting than the blog posts. One of them was, it was on
01:10:46
WebSleuths. Someone said, on your phone keypad, the number corresponds with three or four letters.
01:10:53
Look for SBTC. The numbers are 7282. 7282 corresponds with PATC. Patsy. Don't underestimate us, John. Use that good Southern common sense of yours. It's up to you
01:11:12
now, John. Victory for Patsy. I know. But what is that? Victory for Patsy? Patsy. So maybe Patsy.
01:11:21
I mean, I know it's her, but I'm... How... I don't know. It's one of those... Yeah.
01:11:27
Isn't that interesting? Yes, it is. It has nothing to do with it. Well, also, that's a really good way to make up a code.
01:11:34
Let's do it right now. I mean... Pick one. What's your name on here? Hard kill. Hard kill.
01:11:39
Hard kill. All right, here. Let me write some... I wrote like a bunch of fucking thoughts.
01:11:43
Why sign a ransom note to begin with? Right. Nobody signs a ransom note. No one expects you to put your name on there.
01:11:49
Did you know there were also... and we should do a quick, like, let's do the side of,
01:11:53
it was an intruder because there's a lot of them. Okay, let's do it. There were 38 registered sex offenders living with,
01:12:00
two miles of the house in Boulder. Yes. That's a lot. That's a lot. And Boulder small.
01:12:07
JonBenet had been to the pediatrician over the last three years of her life 27 times.
01:12:13
That's a lot. That's too many. That's too many. Wait, was Patsy some kind of weird-
01:12:21
She might've had Munchausen by proxy. For sure. Yeah. That's what that says to me.
01:12:27
Okay. If Patsy had nothing to do with any of it And John did It makes sense that she's the one to
01:12:33
Like who If someone makes the panic 911 call The other person is telling them Not to read the note
01:12:40
It says not to call Yes So one way or the other You know what I mean Like she's being manipulated
01:12:46
Right Yeah I think Patsy was manipulated this whole time Maybe she knew some things
01:12:50
And so she couldn't tell the truth Yes I think that's what it looked like In that CNN interview
01:12:55
Where she's got pill eyes And she's going I love my daughter with her eyes closed.
01:13:00
Yeah. Yeah. I think that she maybe knew some of it and agreed to it and didn't realize the extent
01:13:06
of her husband's fucking awfulness. But also that idea that she would be telling,
01:13:12
she said, if we live in Boulder, which she said the phrase, if we live in Boulder,
01:13:18
which I wrote down, don't they live in Boulder? I would tell everyone in Boulder.
01:13:23
If we live in Boulder. And she says, I tell my friends. So it's this like weird thing of like, who are you telling?
01:13:31
Yes. And she's saying there's a killer out there. Hold your babies tight. But the idea that
01:13:37
that's a given. Yeah. Like you don't have to underline that if you're this mourning mother
01:13:43
who... As if she didn't because she was very protective of her children. Yeah. Oh, you said
01:13:49
in your Elle article, you said the thing about we have to stop using the word panties. Oh, can we not?
01:13:54
It's so true. But you know what I thought of is Henry Lee, Dr. Henry Lee has such a thick accent.
01:14:01
Yeah. I bet you the word underwear was hard for him to say. This man is such a famous and prolific
01:14:08
and legendary forensic pathologist. If you don't watch true crime shit, you wouldn't know that Dr.
01:14:14
Lee, Henry Lee is someone that we all fucking admire. He's a man. The minute he's in on it,
01:14:20
you're like oh this is legit legit and also he has a building they went to his building with his
01:14:25
name on the front of it to talk about that some of that dna stuff so like there's no no sweat off
01:14:31
henry lays back in any way absolutely not yeah and he's not gonna he's also not going to bullshit
01:14:37
he's not gonna be paid to do a show with his opinion no because they need a certain opinion
01:14:45
he's not gonna lie no i feel like all of those scientists really were there because like this
01:14:50
thing is fucked and we need to look at it and at least just organize the paperwork at the very least.
01:14:55
I agree. The show is great. I wish we could see the last unaired portion of it. I want to know what they cut out. I think they fucked everyone over by not showing that.
01:15:06
But I wonder if it was stuff that the Burke Ramsey's lawyers were like, go ahead and air it. We'll own CBS in a year. What I was thinking is that the four
01:15:14
bias docuseries before it covered so much of it already that they didn't, we were like, you know what?
01:15:23
We don't need to add this. Maybe except for, well, I have to see the other ones to know, but I don't know.
01:15:29
I mean, because their whole thing was like, we're going to discover all this stuff.
01:15:33
Werner Spitz. Oh God, I love him. He has a straight up Peaky Blinders haircut. If you
01:15:39
watch Peaky Blinders, that's the same hair. The second I saw I was like, oh my God.
01:15:44
Love him. Picture him and Henry Lee putting a house together and they just, there's...
01:15:52
When people stop being polite and start being real. Like that is my dream. And then like,
01:15:59
there's just like, they just get like, every morning they wake up and it's instead of Tyra Male,
01:16:03
it's like a fucking corpse and they have to figure out what happened to it. Tyra Male, it's a corpse.
01:16:09
Oh my God. How great would that be? I mean, we should just start our own network.
01:16:15
I feel like because also Werner Spitz guesting on Peaky Blinders. Oh, gorgeous. He could be the German
01:16:23
Irish guy that comes in and just point some stuff out. Listen, Emmys next year, we're there.
01:16:33
Sure. We're winning all of them. We'll go down to the shrine and stand around near that Burger King.
01:16:38
Sure. I'll get a fucking run the runway dress. Um, yeah, the whole thing actually made me, it made me think of like all of those other cases where people, the more people talk about it, the more people hear bullshit, the more like, you know, like the, we talked about the John Mark Carr theory where he confessed to being her killer while he was in Malaysia somewhere.
01:17:03
Right. To get out of. To get out of being in jail because he's a child molester who had gotten arrested for, I think, child sex tourism and knew that if he went to jail there, he would just die in a pit somewhere.
01:17:17
And so he confessed to killing John Benet and then was extradited. That's really interesting.
01:17:24
And when he was extradited and everyone was talking about it, my sister gets a phone call from our childhood friend.
01:17:30
I didn't tell you this. You did, but I don't remember. And she goes, oh, my God.
01:17:34
see that guy on the news right now? That's the guy from my church group I've been complaining
01:17:37
about. And apparently John Mark Carr lived in Petaluma and was in my sister's friend's church
01:17:44
group and was the guy that everyone's like, I want to cancel a church group next week. I feel
01:17:48
so weird Like he was creeping people out and super weird super like super just bad vibes suspicious And then I mean how like satisfying would that be And then you see him like basically confessing to the murder of JonBenet Ramsey The minute I see him when there the clips or the trailers to a JonBenet fucking docuseries
01:18:11
and I see him, I'm like, oh, this isn't legit. No, it's so not. I don't want to hear about him.
01:18:15
No, no, no. He has nothing to do with it aside from sensationalism. He should just get a big red herring costume because that's all he is.
01:18:23
Should we? All right. I'm going to read a couple of things. Felicia said she did some digging last
01:18:28
night and feel super confident about the Burke theory. She'd learned some things she hadn't
01:18:32
before. Okay. This is interesting. There was a 14 year old girl that was sexually molested by an
01:18:37
intruder about nine months after Jean Benet was murdered very close to the Ramsey home.
01:18:43
Quote, Amy was sexually assaulted in her bed by an intruder that they believe was lying in wait
01:18:47
for four to six hours before the attack. While they were all asleep, he was never caught and
01:18:53
the Boulder police disregarded the mother's suggestion that he could have been the killer
01:18:56
of JonBenet. Amy and JonBenet Ramsey attended the same dance studio. Ew. There are a lot of... Okay, so the fact that they had a walkthrough of their Christmas
01:19:09
decorated house, the Ramseys. Yeah. What was it? A couple of days before the murder?
01:19:14
Was it like a public walkthrough? Yeah. Oh, I didn't know that. You know, like when you do like a haunted house for Halloween.
01:19:20
so anyone could have been in there and and the theory is that while the ramses were at a christmas
01:19:27
party that night someone fucking came in broken knew someone who had a key got in and hid and
01:19:33
waited yeah totally possible um and then they're like depending on what side you want to argue
01:19:41
either the window in the basement had no leaves where someone scooted in or had an undisturbed
01:19:51
spider web where that would have been disturbed if someone had scooted in. Like everyone who has
01:19:56
a fucking definitive answer about this needs to stop it because there's not one.
01:20:01
No. And that's, that's the crazy, the, the cobweb one watching them on that one show,
01:20:06
going in and out where I was just like, yeah, but then there's the one time where you don't
01:20:10
touch it at all. And because you're really skinny because you're on math or this or that, like,
01:20:16
or you're careful. One billion. Yes, exactly. The thing that I was thought was very suspicious was
01:20:22
they, the first of all, they're these millionaires. They have two planes, but they have a broken
01:20:26
window pane in their basement and they don't fix it. Like I'm the most irresponsible person in the
01:20:31
world. And when I broke my kitchen window, I fixed it within three days because it's your house and
01:20:37
it's an open window. Like it's unsafe. It's glass. And then there was some somewhere in that
01:20:43
where John Ramsey said that they left it like that because he locked himself out a lot.
01:20:49
Right. Which is insanity. The fact that he admitted to that being his fault, I thought was very weird.
01:20:55
Super weird. Because to me, it's like, oh, are you trying to justify if there's some latent print somewhere?
01:21:00
Because it doesn't even, what? Get a hide a key. There's one million things, especially as a millionaire,
01:21:06
that you could do. Man. Yeah. Buy a second fucking house. Like there's all these things you could do
01:21:12
instead of breaking a window and leaving it that way. I thought it was really, like there's some things that to me were like,
01:21:18
well, if you want to argue this thing this way, you say this. If you want to argue with you,
01:21:23
like there's things like the taser marks. If you want it to be an intruder, it's taser marks.
01:21:31
If you don't want it to be an intruder, it's train track. It's Burke's toy train track marks.
01:21:36
every piece of evidence can be argued either way you fucking want it to be argued
01:21:41
I did think it was interesting when they argued the taser that tasers don't put you
01:21:45
to sleep they actually get your adrenaline going and zap you and make you very much awake
01:21:50
that's an interesting thing and I think that that could point to this super shoddy police
01:21:58
work of these weird assumptions where it's like they were actually measuring it and being like
01:22:05
Yeah, this doesn't even fit a taser shape. It doesn't. I think the thing for me,
01:22:11
all right, let's do our big conclusion. Great. I think. Because I'm so tired. I'm so tired too.
01:22:16
Let's do the thing between, between I think the ransom letter and the 911 call and what happened between when the cops came
01:22:28
and her body was found, put down and then. Ugh. I think those all over the house by neighbors and friends and picked up DNA all over the carpet.
01:22:40
And I think those things are the most telling more than anything else. And the pineapple, but also, and I think those things all point to it.
01:22:50
Inside job. And it makes more sense to me that one of the three people aside from Jombenet in that house
01:22:58
that night had something to do with it more than a stranger or someone else outside of it.
01:23:06
Yeah. It just makes more sense. It does. I mean, the thing that's maddening, I guess, is that could be a little bit of everything.
01:23:16
Yeah. It could be an intruder who opened that window and saw the suitcase in the room and put it there
01:23:24
because he was like, I'm going to go get that little girl and take her out. There's all these things
01:23:29
that it could be a little piece of each. But yes, I agree and believe that the ransom note is a lie
01:23:37
and it's a fabrication. And the 911 calls bullshit. I don't buy her level. It's acting
01:23:47
and it's not good acting. And then the fact that that mag light flashlight fits the whole of somebody head perfectly is devastating like proof that or at least devastating proof
01:24:06
too much but it's that thing of like then you I just it suddenly made sense of like she did yet
01:24:12
another irritating thing to him and he grabbed something nearby threw it at her or like
01:24:18
ran behind her and cracked her with it not knowing you don't have to be like you know
01:24:24
crazy the good son evil child to make a terrible mistake to me patsy and burke are
01:24:33
patsy's and john's the ego yeah ego well he's gonna take care of business like yeah this the
01:24:43
worst case scenario thing happened yeah and yeah he's gonna fix it and did you know that
01:24:48
So out of all the, they did, I really liked the, when they take apart the ransom note and look letter by letter of who it matches.
01:25:00
So, oh God, where'd it go? So all these people were, let me get my notes from under my cat.
01:25:09
Oh God, where'd it go? Well, 100 people, their handwriting was compared to the ransom note.
01:25:21
Everyone was cleared and everyone keeps saying like, well, Patsy Ramsey was inconclusive.
01:25:26
Out of the 100 people, hers was the only one that wasn't cleared. Yeah. That was, quote, inconclusive.
01:25:32
Yeah. She also wrote out the words $118,000. Instead of the numbers. Yeah. Yes. Nobody fucking does that.
01:25:41
No one does that. When asked to rewrite the ransom note, she did that. But I also, I just, I have so much sympathy for her.
01:25:50
Well, yeah, the idea that she would know that her child was murdered and then have to be a part of the cover-up,
01:25:57
have to be the voice of the cover-up. Yeah, the grieving mother. And so then balance those feelings of you actually really did lose your child,
01:26:05
but now in the name, just say if it's the Burke, in the name of your other child,
01:26:10
you have to continue on and do this thing. That's a sickening proposition. Especially when you're someone
01:26:16
who appearances mean so much to everyone. You and I don't give a fuck. I'm sitting fucking spread eagle right now with shorts
01:26:22
and I don't give a shit. My roots need to be dyed so bad that strangers laugh at me on the street.
01:26:28
And yeah, to be wrapped up in that world, that trapping of, it is its own pageantry.
01:26:35
It's an adult version of that, of look at my home. Now there are balls of shit in my daughter's bed that my son put there, but please look at my Christmas tree.
01:26:46
And you're still winning. You're still going to win the crown if you're the fucking best at it.
01:26:52
That's right. It's just different. Insanity. Also, there was that one quote where a little girl, and it's the woman that was interviewed.
01:26:58
I call her the wine friend that said, I was turned out, cast out from the friendship.
01:27:05
where I was like, yeah, because you talk to fucking reporters and you clearly just like ran blabbing the second you could.
01:27:12
But she said that her daughter had gone up to JonBenet's room with her one time and was looking at all the trophies and said, what are these?
01:27:21
And she said, I just won those, but they're really my mom's. Thinking, first of all, I don't buy that that actually happened.
01:27:27
That sounds like an anecdote someone would write on Twitter about their brilliant child.
01:27:32
Because it's such an old soul kind of thing, knowing that's like her commenting on the reality of her own life
01:27:39
in a way as if she's not a part of it to say, yes, my mother's very wrapped up in my career. Talk about this on CBS
01:27:45
when I'm dead. Yeah. It doesn't make sense. For a six year old, maybe if she was eight or I mean
01:27:51
who knows. Everyone wants to make their kids seem like an old soul, but really they're just fucking
01:27:54
they scream Sesame Street socks at the top of their fucking locks. They're new souls to everybody else in the restaurant
01:28:00
when your child's screaming, so shut it. Oh no. Was that enough Jean Benet talk for everybody?
01:28:09
I think it was a lot. I think I'm done talking about this anymore. Yeah. Unless there's new information.
01:28:15
Yeah. I would be interested in new information, but I feel like we've just hit a peak
01:28:22
at true zenith of Jean Benet reporting. And also just that it's this thing of everybody going,
01:28:28
true crime so hot right now, true crime or whatever, where it's just like, yeah, but we don't need to keep talking
01:28:33
about the same thing over and over. The amount of research I've done on this person that I,
01:28:38
this case that I'm really very interested in and I feel a lot of fucking sadness and pain
01:28:43
for the victim. I feel like if I keep fucking searching it and getting into it and talking about it,
01:28:50
I'm just, I'm not, I'm desecrating her fucking memory. And I just, I can't keep looking
01:28:55
at fucking autopsy photos. No. It's also, it's not good for your brain. No, it's not.
01:29:01
It's not, you're not related. you don't work on it. You don't put yourself through it. I saw a picture on Twitter moments
01:29:08
this morning because there was nothing. I was, I was up at like six and there was nothing going on
01:29:11
Twitter. So I went, I made the grave mistake of touching the moments button and seeing what the
01:29:17
story was there. And it said something about JonBenet, but the picture was one where I was like,
01:29:21
is this Angelina Jolie? Like her mouth is open and her head is tipped back and she's got all
01:29:26
kinds of fucking makeup on and her hair's brushed away from her head. So you can see like her tall
01:29:31
forehead and she truly looks like she's 20 and it is such a sexual picture and that's the picture
01:29:37
twitter moments chose to use as the jean bonnet headline picture not the cute one no where she's
01:29:42
got the little bangs and the little hat and she just looks like she's on vacation it was like
01:29:46
she might as well been like grabbing her own neck it was such a sexual like perfume commercial let's
01:29:51
stop doing this it stop it it gross to her poor baby it not gonna stop though because it It so fucking salacious and it so mysterious She is a sweet she we going to file her away
01:30:05
as a sweet baby angle. And she will be in, and you're, you're in mine and my favorite
01:30:12
murderers hearts and we feel awful and wish it would be solved, but it's not, it's just not,
01:30:19
there's not, even if it gets solved, people are going to say it's a fucking conspiracy.
01:30:22
right yeah keep your keep your babies close and uh keep your foreign factions even closer
01:30:30
to the punk rock band and stay sexy and don't get murdered Elvis want a cookie we are back and they're actually this is what's very interesting there are
01:30:52
some case updates. So 28 years later, of course, the murder of JonBenet Ramsey remains unsolved.
01:30:59
There are countless documentaries and forums where people talk about who they think did it,
01:31:04
theories everywhere. Earlier this year, Jon Ramsey met with the new Boulder police chief
01:31:09
and said it was the first time he felt that the case was in good hands and that it gave him a lot
01:31:15
of hope. You know, it's so funny because recently I talked about the new documentary, Cold Case,
01:31:20
who killed JonBenet Ramsey. And it's another one of those, like, Jon Ramsey is interviewed
01:31:26
throughout it. And I was like, I'm convinced he didn't do it, blah, blah, blah. And I just,
01:31:31
I still am like, I don't fucking know. Like, all of this, first of all, we should have said
01:31:35
allegedly from the top. Did we even say that word in this episode? I doubt it. No, there's no way we said allegedly. We had no idea that we should be doing things like that.
01:31:43
No, this is all allegedly. I mean, my mind changes all the time. And I will also say that
01:31:48
an update on this is that Burke Ramsey sued CBS over this documentary. Yeah. And he sued for 250
01:31:56
million in compensatory damages and 500 million in punitive damages. And it was settled outside
01:32:02
of court. So it was this this documentary was inflammatory. Oh, my God. It absolutely was
01:32:09
pointing that. I mean, yeah, it was almost like they're saying we know that there's demand for
01:32:15
the solution. So we're going to try to get you as close to that as possible, which is just kind of
01:32:20
like anything can be produced. If you're on that side of things and just basically kind of trying
01:32:26
to steer people a certain direction, it still doesn't mean you saw the case just because you've
01:32:30
compiled kind of like your own narrative, your own television narrative. Like a possibility of
01:32:36
something happening. I mean, to me at this point, I was looking over the case again before we
01:32:42
recorded. I really don't think in my heart that Burke, this 10-year-old boy, had anything to do
01:32:46
with what happened. I do think that the ransom note is going to be the answer somehow because
01:32:52
it's just so fucking weird and you can't get past it. Yes. There's so many weird specifics in that
01:32:58
ransom note. No, I agree with you. But all of this is just like, I feel like people theorizing,
01:33:06
people online, everybody talking about it, everyone is influenced by these documentaries.
01:33:10
Totally. So it's like we all believe in 2016 that we, you know, we were really close to it.
01:33:16
And then it's like, of course, 10 years later, everyone's like, no, clearly it's not that.
01:33:19
And after this episode aired, a lovely writer named Nathan Rabin at Vulture wrote a very nice article about us and this episode.
01:33:26
So thank you so much to him. That was very nice. Yeah. I mean, any final thoughts?
01:33:31
I feel like this is just one of those, you know, JonBenet. It's like we've been seeing her face in the grocery store tabloid kind of like rack since the moment this happened.
01:33:43
It is from a different time. It is an insane tragedy, yet it is still the kind of like white woman syndrome, white child syndrome.
01:33:51
This is the most important kind of murder. Rich people, it's the thing of like we want rich people to pay some sort of a price.
01:33:59
We want to know what's going on inside other people's houses, especially big mansions.
01:34:04
Yeah, definitely. I do still think John Mark Carr should be looked closer at, especially after watching that cold case who killed JonBenet Ramsey, because they interview the like private detective who was baiting him. And he did know more than he should have about the family.
01:34:20
That was the guy that like showed up, right? And was suddenly kind of saying, I need to talk about maybe I'm involved in this.
01:34:26
Your sister was saying in this episode, your sister was talking about having known him somehow, too.
01:34:31
Oh, it was like friend of a friend type of thing where somebody discovered that he had been in their church group.
01:34:37
So I don't know. I still am not totally convinced he doesn't have something to do with it or knows someone who does.
01:34:43
But we'll update it again in 10 years when we finally have the answer. Can you imagine?
01:34:48
Double rewind? Double rewind. Double rewind. We're again changing our stance on this.
01:34:54
All right. So if we were going to name this episode today, Small Foreign Faction, I just think is such a fucking tight name.
01:35:01
It's perfect. A small foreign faction gets it all said and it keeps you wanting more simultaneously.
01:35:07
But this one, if we were to name it today, it's something I still think about and still comes up in my head every time I hear it.
01:35:13
We could call this episode Scream Sneezer for sure. Scream Sneezer was one of those things when you and I started discussing it, people online really like this conversation.
01:35:24
because it was like it gave people a chance to either accuse their like loved one of being one
01:35:29
or tell their own personal story or admit they were or defend themselves. There's a lot of scream sneezers who are like, I can't help it.
01:35:37
And, you know, yes. And then be a little more aware of it. I realized I am since then that I'm a scream yawner.
01:35:45
And that is a whole that's a whole nother fucking therapy session for me. Have you heard me scream yawn?
01:35:53
Not scream, but like, I know that that is... I mean, like, I know you're just trying to...
01:36:00
Try to catch your breath. But there have been, yeah, there have been some loud ones.
01:36:03
Free yawns. That are supposed to be on the quieter side. That's ridiculous. Okay, what else we got?
01:36:09
Oh, angry complaining. Oh, basically that I was talking about that there's a new format for this show and angry
01:36:17
complaining would be the new top of show. That should be its own podcast completely.
01:36:21
I mean, I think that is podcasts in general. That's an older sister corner, of course, because that's what we talk about all the
01:36:28
time. And yeah, we need we need to know what Laura and Leah think about the podcast.
01:36:34
Right. Yeah. The foundation of this podcast was built on bossy older sisters and sister relationships in general.
01:36:41
Like it's the sisters that got us where we are today, for sure. Yeah. If we weren't traumatized so incredibly by our older sisters, we wouldn't be where we are today.
01:36:50
So you've got to know that that pain really does get planted deep into the soil of life experience and upgrows a beautiful podcast for you, too.
01:37:01
All right. Well, thanks, you guys, for listening to this episode of Rewind. We really appreciate you guys like inviting another episode into your week and your life.
01:37:09
My God, especially you people who listen to it the first time more than once. I feel like there's people that are really out there doing triple and quadruple duty. And to you, we say thank you especially.
01:37:20
Thank you. Thank you so much. And we also say stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
01:37:27
Bye. Elvis do you want a cookie When you feel uncomfortable what do you put on Biggie.
01:37:39
You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable? Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy,
01:37:44
a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist. It's mental health month.
01:37:49
Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff.
01:37:54
It didn't matter to me. This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day.
01:38:00
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
01:38:05
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,
01:38:15
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
01:38:22
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
01:38:30
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist,
01:38:41
they take matters into their own hands. I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this.
01:38:48
He's going to get what he deserves. We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to The Girlfriends, Trust Me Babe,
01:38:57
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.