00:00:00
This is Exactly Right. Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people. Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
00:00:14
She trained in something called neuro-linguistic programming. People loved our training.
00:00:19
Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
00:00:26
A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
00:00:33
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:00:56
I screamed, get down, get down. Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery
00:01:04
that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app,
00:01:11
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
00:01:18
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
00:01:24
You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:01:30
All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
00:01:34
What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you. The guy was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:01:42
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, this one.
00:01:48
Oh, this one's so long. Why didn't we make this two episodes? Why in God's name would we have Dave do his own whole fucking story?
00:01:55
I don't. Or why wasn't it just Dave doing his own whole story? Right. Like, what the fuck were we thinking?
00:02:16
Hello. Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. That's right. It is when it's day. So we are recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and case updates and emotional reveals.
00:02:30
Now, this one is crazy. We're recapping episode 36, which we named Live from the L.A. Podcast Festival because it was our first live show.
00:02:40
First live show. Amazing. Oh, my God. I can still remember driving to that live show from work, trying to put on makeup in the car as I go to this Our First live show.
00:02:55
And it was like, why can't I? Like, nothing in my life is set up so that the things I should be prioritizing are prioritized.
00:03:03
First and foremost, my appearance. You and yourself and your own ambitions. Nope.
00:03:11
So I'd pay those bills. Oh, anyway, so on this episode, we're joined by our very first guest, a comedian and fellow podcaster, co-host of The Dollop, Dave Anthony.
00:03:22
And even he tells a story as we were complaining earlier. Everyone gets an hour.
00:03:27
So get comfy and join us as we take you back to September 29th, 2016, which, of course, would also have been the 258th birthday of British naval hero Admiral Nelson.
00:03:40
We must celebrate Admiral Nelson. He joined the Navy when he was 12 years old. Is that Alison Agassi putting that in there?
00:03:48
She originally put in, it was the birthday, whatever birthday of Kevin Durant. And I was like, George and I don't really follow basketball.
00:03:55
And then she goes, I know, but nobody else was born on this day. And we look, it's Halsey and it's Kevin Durant and it's Admiral Nelson.
00:04:03
And everybody else is like a YouTube star that you and I have not heard of. I've never heard of Admiral Nelson.
00:04:09
So it's fine. But he joined the Navy when he was 12. Oh, well, baby. All right. Let's do this.
00:04:16
It's time for the intro of episode 36, which which is the first live anything we've ever done.
00:04:22
Let's see how we do. All right. We did this wrong. All right. There's trash. Just don't worry about the trash.
00:04:40
Glamorous. Classy. Professional. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murder Live, everybody.
00:04:50
What? We had them... What? We had them recreate my apartment. Yes. On stage. Georgia's blue curtains are gorgeous.
00:05:01
Oh, my God. Can we talk about this? Yes, can we, please? Fuck. Karen, tell me everything.
00:05:07
well last week when we were talking about how we are going to come and do a live podcast and we
00:05:13
were talking about all the things we needed to do and bring and have to recreate the same
00:05:19
environment that we have in georgia's hot hot apartment when we record every week and georgia
00:05:26
made a joke and said i guess i'll buy a cage to bring elvis and i said or you could just have him
00:05:31
stuffed and her heart broke in front of me and now I'm that friend so I've been trying to think
00:05:42
for like six days turning things like you got to make good on that piece of bullshit um and then I
00:05:48
remembered that I'm a compulsive vintage thrift store shopper and I got shit like this laying
00:05:54
around by the dozens And I was like excuse me don you have some sixth grade teacher hand a Siamese cat
00:06:05
And it's just been sitting in a closet for like fucking seven years? And the answer was yes.
00:06:11
Elvis is here. When I saw that backstage, I was like, I'm not supposed to see that.
00:06:20
And if I look at it, I'm going to cry. So I didn't, because it's so sweet. and so I didn't look at it.
00:06:25
Ow. What happened? I'm just trying to move my... Okay. There we go. Have you gotten a good look at it?
00:06:31
Because there's truly about four years of dust right on the top. You guys can see that.
00:06:36
It meant a lot. Karen, thank you so much. And I would have dusted it off, but I was running late.
00:06:42
And if you know my apartment... You don't know my apartment. This is the most perfect thing for my apartment.
00:06:48
It's going to match everything. It's like a grandma and there's like seafoam happening.
00:06:53
it's a seafoamy apartment everything it makes me so thank you so much karen you're welcome
00:06:58
i got you a nothing it's i'm gonna catch a moonbeam in my pocket save it this is our first live show look at it
00:07:11
thank you you guys i'm nervous i'm nervous are you nervous i'm nervous let's talk it through okay
00:07:21
What do you think it could happen that's nerve-wracking? It already happened. What?
00:07:28
No, nothing. Dusty cat picture? No, nothing, nothing. Everything's good. This is great.
00:07:33
But we're just working through worst fears. I mean, farting comes to mind. Oh, ex-boyfriend right there
00:07:38
where you can't stop making eye contact. Well, that's his fault, not yours. Good one.
00:07:43
What's yours? Mine is saying something so stupid and then like silence. You know what I mean?
00:07:49
Everyone laugh at that. thank you wow jeb bush that can't have felt good everybody laugh at that because when you're doing it in my apartment it's
00:08:03
like we're just talking to each other i know let's just i'm gonna pretend we're talking to
00:08:07
each other good plan okay because you still have to talk to me i insist okay um yeah we're very
00:08:15
excited. It's obviously we can't do our normal house cleaning. I mean housekeeping. Oops, I messed up my
00:08:21
line already. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Housekeeping. Do you have any? I don't.
00:08:27
Oh, yes. I have one, but it's like heartfelt and touching housekeeping. Go, go, go. I love it. It has
00:08:33
nothing to do with me not knowing the capital of Norway or whatever the fuck ignorance
00:08:37
is exposed on this goddamn podcast every week. I used to think I was super smart.
00:08:43
You should have seen me in the 90s. fucking playing Jeopardy at home and shit. Now I'm like a shell of a woman.
00:08:54
So Dustin, the head of Feral Audio, forwarded this email to us the other day. He also brought us fucking flowers.
00:09:01
And he brought us double roses. You guys. Yeah, that's right. That's fucking exactly how you do it.
00:09:08
Who's that character? So this is the email he sent. And it says, some of you will recognize this if you've listened to the podcast recently.
00:09:20
Hi, Karen in Georgia. Oh my God, just heard your podcast about me. You two made me cry and feel so honored. While my attack was horrible, hearing you two reminded me that my story might help other women.
00:09:31
Thank you for this gift tonight. It's been 21 years. I'm raising my son and daughter, trying to prepare them for a crazy world.
00:09:38
My attack is now part of my DNA, just who I am. But you honored me by reminding me, even me, that stories of survival remind us all of the gift of life and challenge of our survival.
00:09:51
Call me. She gave us her phone number. It's Jennifer Morey. The chick who, yeah.
00:09:56
The woman who got attacked by the security guard story. Who held her open neck, closed with a towel.
00:10:05
She doesn't hate us. She wants us to call her. She is super into it. What the fuck?
00:10:15
We're going to fucking call her. We can't do it now. That would be an invasion of privacy.
00:10:20
Jennifer, we're all here. Jennifer, what color towel held your neck together? That's bananas.
00:10:29
Because I feel like we're both always afraid that we're like, you know, we don't want to make any victims feel
00:10:35
that we're just like exploiting them. There's so many. There's so many potholes to fall into.
00:10:40
Sure. And this is just like, I know you were really happy to get this like nice fucking email
00:10:45
from someone that we talked like. That's bananas. Well, also, I'm so obsessed with the show I survived.
00:10:51
That Jennifer. Right, that too. Jennifer Morey is like one of my real housewives.
00:10:58
Only she did something way fucking cooler. Fucking cooler. Like she's a badass. Yeah.
00:11:03
Also probably a housewife. Um, so yeah. She deserves to be a housewife at this point.
00:11:08
I mean, like, take your fucking day off, man. Well, that's the cool thing is she's an attorney
00:11:12
and she's a victim's rights advocate. So she's going for it. We have no excuse. Um, we have to leave this podcast festival right now
00:11:22
and help someone. Let's go. All of us. We just make everyone leave the podcast. And become victim's rights advocates.
00:11:31
Tonight. Fostering children tonight. Tonight, near the Beverly Center. There's a van outside signing everyone up
00:11:37
and we'll know if you don't do it. I feel like there was another thing that we were supposed to mention.
00:11:47
You guys, you're used to this already. Except Stephen edits this part out. Yeah, that's right.
00:11:54
This is all going to get pulled On the podcast Drink it in All right I guess we just bring out our guest No let just do it We only have 90 minutes
00:12:06
So after we interview each and every one of you, I think then we're going to go to the cards.
00:12:14
Well, our guest tonight, excitingly enough, is one of the hosts of The Dollop. And he was my first comedy boyfriend.
00:12:22
So please welcome to the stage, Dave Anthony. yay oh that's awesome hi you guys are at a table and I'm over here
00:12:39
I know get in here let's uh scoot it on over I can't get out Charlie Rose this thing I have sciatica
00:12:45
how is that by the way I had a friend in New York who had the sciatica thing did he how did she
00:12:51
cure it oh she didn't make it Oh, that's awful news. Yeah, I probably shouldn't have brought that up.
00:12:58
For fuck's sake. You know what? I don't remember how she... It doesn't matter. But you'll probably get a lot of suggestions.
00:13:05
I'm getting so many, but very nice ones. Thank you, everyone. That's good. Because I remember her going through it.
00:13:10
It was terrible. It sucks. What are you going to do? Yeah, I had a little back thing.
00:13:15
You know, some people have war in their country, so it's hard to complain about.
00:13:18
Yeah. You know what? Don't complain about your own pain, because people have been at war.
00:13:24
Yeah. So. Oh, we are back. I mean, what a strong start. I remember everything about that live show.
00:13:35
It's like the last one I truly remember on its own. The other ones that we've done since then
00:13:40
are all kind of like a mishmash of moments. Yeah. But maybe because I was so nervous.
00:13:44
Yeah. But you also gave me that Siamese cat knit art. Yep. That was so unexpected and incredible.
00:13:52
Well, and because I had basically threatened Elvis's life, you could interpret it that way if you chose to. So I did need to do a little makeup. But I also knew that like, it's like, oh, we're so nervous and we're so kind of concerned with what's going on that I was afraid we weren't going to do any of our normal stuff at the top.
00:14:12
Right. You know what I mean? We had no idea. We didn't discuss. And also we were in this conference room.
00:14:18
Listener, let us describe it for you now because we were in the Softil Hotel, which is in right downtown Hollywood, essentially.
00:14:26
Yeah. Up in a conference room. Beautiful, fancy hotel. Yes. Yeah. A conference room that was fully lit.
00:14:31
I could look into and probably describe to you the faces of the audience members that were there that night.
00:14:37
Yeah. And we didn't know. Like, that was part of LA Podcast Fest. So I was like, oh, these people were just already here and they're just like, oh, we'll go see them too.
00:14:47
Right. There's a break. Let's go see this podcast. Do you think it was like 150 or 300 people? What do you think?
00:14:53
I mean, somewhere around there. It was a pretty big conference room. I would say somewhere between 200 and 300 people.
00:14:59
Yeah, that sounds right. It was a nice big, you know, ovation. It didn't feel like there was like sparse seats, you know, empty seats or anything like that.
00:15:07
It really did feel like we had a nice kind of thing going. But I do definitely remember beforehand when we were backstage, I turned to you and I was like, do you have the theme song?
00:15:17
And you literally kind of like kind of like smiled at me and walked away. Like, I think you were going into nerves or going into some sort of personal space of like we're about to walk on stage.
00:15:27
And me, you know, I was going into is a fucking glass of champagne. Oh, yeah. Where I was going into.
00:15:31
You're like, I got to get in here because I was like, I should have thought about this.
00:15:35
But now that we're standing here, like when they say our name, we should go on to the theme song because that's going to help us a lot.
00:15:42
You know, whatever. And thank God Stephen was backstage. Yes. Stephen saved the day as he's done a million times.
00:15:49
Yes. Where he was kind of like, I got it. He's like, I think I have it. I don't know.
00:15:53
And I'm like, will you just go find the person and make this happen? You know what we need?
00:15:56
And he was like, yes. And he did it. He did. Thank you, Stephen. All right. So for some reason, we thought it'd be a great idea that night to let each one of us, you, me and Dave, tell an entire fucking story. Like, why didn't we have Dave do one? Why didn't you or I do one? I don't know.
00:16:15
Really strange. I think we were just kind of like, well, this is what he does on his podcast. We'll all do it together.
00:16:22
Yeah. With no concern about time. No. This could have been two episodes. Like, why did we do this to ourselves?
00:16:29
Also, I think this was a very early, us talking about the Trailside Killer and like the kind of stuff we were doing in this is probably the height of the bad combination of comedy and true crime.
00:16:43
where we're really being casual and jokey about some of the, the Trailside Killer, well, at least personally,
00:16:52
because I lived through it and like watched it on TV, was a very, very traumatizing thing for kids in the North Bay to go through.
00:17:00
And I think that's what Dave and I were kind of processing, was just like this and kind of being able to retell it,
00:17:08
you know, whatever it was 50 years later with that distance. but it also just really cringy.
00:17:14
Some of these jokes are horrible. Totally. I mean, and all three of the cases that we cover are terrible and could stand alone.
00:17:21
But let's get into Dave's story. He's first. Yeah. Here's his story about the trailside killer.
00:17:31
I'm Anna Navarro. And on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
00:17:40
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
00:17:48
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
00:17:53
I talking to people like Julie K Brown who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018 The Justice Department through we counted four presidential administrations failed these victims
00:18:05
Listen to Bleep with Anna Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your
00:18:11
podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy
00:18:18
appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?
00:18:23
I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
00:18:29
Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
00:18:34
My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police.
00:18:40
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:18:50
I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families.
00:19:00
Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime. The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
00:19:12
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:19:25
Dave, will you please tell us about your favorite murder? Oh my God. David, this is our first guest favorite murder.
00:19:36
I went back and I was like, well, they've had to have a guest on. And you guys had no guest on.
00:19:39
No, we don't. Very first. We expressly do not. Yeah. Elvis and Steven are the only people we've had on the podcast.
00:19:45
So my favorite murder, I took a really great picture of us. And I just posted it.
00:19:54
I think... Did we know? That's gross. It's me and Georgia. Am I picking my nose?
00:20:03
It's me and Georgia backstage. She is my favorite ghost. Georgina Hubostank? Oh, there she is.
00:20:14
That's Georgina Hubostank. I turned off my... Fucking asshole. I never called you a fucking asshole for that.
00:20:21
So I grew up near Karen. I grew up just south of her in a place called Marin County.
00:20:29
In Marin County, we have a place called Mount Tamalpais. The one. Just the one. Been there. And some really
00:20:37
fucking great things happened on Mount Tamalpais. Yeah. Oh, this says shark attacks.
00:20:45
So let's bring up the actual one. I've got to get on my email. We didn't tell you there's no notes.
00:20:53
No, you guys have been reading Wikipedia. I've been listening. It's not as fluid and as crazy it used to be.
00:21:04
Right. And then you get correction corner. It's made us millions of dollars. I do a carefully crafted podcast,
00:21:13
which makes us much less money than that. Okay. That sounds boring. But it's... Oh, I'm sorry.
00:21:24
I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Some guy one time on Twitter all of a sudden he comes out of nowhere and he goes,
00:21:31
you get a stupid podcast. You just read Wikipedia. You talk about it. I was like,
00:21:37
yeah, I mean, I don't know. That's your new tagline. That's what I'm doing. Yeah, that's it.
00:21:44
But then I got in trouble, so I don't do that anymore. Okay, so I put a date on May 6, 1930.
00:21:53
Yay! I can't not do that. It's called a mash-up. It's called a crossover. It's called a mixtape.
00:22:01
Okay, so David Carpenter, and you obviously know I was doing this one, because who else would I do for Marin?
00:22:07
Yeah. So he's born in San Francisco, raised by very strict and aggressive parents.
00:22:12
alcoholic father beat him up neglected him his mother was very domineering and nearly blind
00:22:20
so that's like how to make a murderer 101 I mean how to not murder at 3 wait blind and aggressive
00:22:30
what does that look like what does it feel like there's a lot of punching of you
00:22:39
and then like a wall a lot of lamps broken in that house. Not a flower stayed in a vase
00:22:46
through his whole childhood. Get over here, I'm punching things. So when he was seven,
00:22:54
he was stuttering so badly he had a difficult time in any social situation. See, what she just
00:23:00
did, I just told her backstage, that's why we don't do terrible, really, really terrible
00:23:04
murders on the dollop, because neither I or Gareth would go oh. Ever. And then it's a different show where you're like, what the fuck are these guys doing?
00:23:16
It's called Humanity. Oh, look, empathy helps. Empathy? So he's stuttering horribly.
00:23:25
Then he was being ridiculed, which made him painfully reclusive. And to get him over this, his parents forced him into extracurricular activities.
00:23:35
Oh, been there. Such as? Piano and ballet. Oh. Oh, dude. That old blind bitch. Fuck her.
00:23:47
Seriously. That is passive aggression, if not overt aggression. She can't even see him doing ballet.
00:23:55
I know. How does she enjoy that? Period. for the humiliation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So oddly, that did not help his crippling stutter.
00:24:11
He then began to take out his frustrations on animals and he became a bedwetter.
00:24:17
Ding dong. We've got two. Yeah. We've got two so far. When does he hit his head in ballet class
00:24:23
to give us the majestic trifecta of serial killing? Then when he became a teenager, he started molesting children.
00:24:36
He was arrested for molesting his two cousins, three and eight. He served a year for that crime.
00:24:42
Good. Oh, as you do. You're going to enjoy the sentences in this one. And then he was released.
00:24:49
He became even more of a predator, continued molesting until he met a woman, Ellen Heidel,
00:24:54
who had no sense of anything and got married. she's like you seem so fucking weird and your family is crazy let's get married i want to lock
00:25:05
this down he he worked at different jobs he was a ship's purser my dad was the ship's person he is
00:25:16
i have no idea what it is i think you run around giving ladies purses no it's um it's gopher from
00:25:23
the love boat you just carry bags and stuff that's it so you're like a bellboy on a ship
00:25:27
okay yeah yeah i wasn't sure what it was i just i would i just assumed someone here would know
00:25:33
he was also a salesman and a printer he had a very serious need for sex and was very demanding
00:25:48
he needed to have sex three times a night. He waved it. He saved it all till the night time.
00:25:54
Yeah, yeah, yeah. He wouldn't sprinkle it throughout? One morning, one after. Like, come on, everyone.
00:25:58
Come on. He needed a night. Okay. Night hours. He's a night fucker. Trying to read a book over here.
00:26:09
When you do what you do and I'll do what I do. Come on. so so I always find the build up to people
00:26:22
fascinating how they got there in the dollop it's always and then their mother father died when they were three
00:26:29
every story and then I assume you guys get a lot of bed wetters oh yeah mean dads, bed wetters
00:26:36
step dads Jesus fucking Christ so he had three children with her and then he began prowling again.
00:26:46
In 1960, he became friends with a woman, Lois D'Andre, no, D'Andrade, and he invited her to meet his wife
00:26:54
and started including her in their lives. Then one day he took her to work, but instead of doing that,
00:26:58
he drove her to a wooded area of the Presidio, which at that time was an army base,
00:27:03
and pretended like he was lost. At some point he grabbed her, straddled her, bound her with a clothesline,
00:27:09
And using a knife, he threatened her and forced her to be still. He said he had a funny quirk that needed to be satisfied.
00:27:16
Real funny. It's not ballet, right? It's not. And then he put on a tutu. This is terrible.
00:27:27
She then tried to get away. And so he hit her several times with a hammer. Oh, fuck.
00:27:32
Now, before and during the incident, he completely lost his stutter. His speech was slow and deliberate and angry.
00:27:41
Wow. Yeah. Thankfully, there was an MP on the base, and he was very suspicious watching the car.
00:27:49
Watching a woman getting hit in the fucking air. He's like, I don't like the light.
00:27:54
Look to that knife. I don't know. I would be too. She seems to be crying near the knife.
00:28:00
so he hurt and then he heard the cries for help and he was near so he came over and uh carpenter
00:28:11
got out of the car and shot at him and missed and then the mp shot back and hit carpenter in the leg
00:28:16
and i think the back um carpenter was arrested but he said his excuse was that he blacked out
00:28:21
during the whole attack which is solid yeah let him go just solid excuse oops i don't remember
00:28:28
hitting her with a hammer? I think I was napping. He was given a 14 year sentence.
00:28:35
That's it. That's the story. Oh, well thanks for being here, Dan. And then for some
00:28:42
reason his wife divorced him. I don't know why. During his stay in prison, psychiatrists
00:28:48
reported that Carpenter has a quote, sociopathic personality disorder and an IQ of 125.
00:28:55
That's too many IQs. That amount makes me nervous. That many? That's more than me.
00:29:02
For sure. More than I. In 1969, he was freed after nine years. Being a catch, he remarried
00:29:19
four months after getting out. Fuck! No, but look, he had been doing push-ups, and he got that one tattoo,
00:29:26
and he was like, I'm going to put a cigarette in the corner of my mouth and stuff.
00:29:31
You think it sounds bad, but then if you see prison trim, like just a trim, you're like, all right.
00:29:39
Well, the other stuff, the stutter, the killing of animals, the molestation, the beating of a woman with a hammer.
00:29:47
The toe shoes. He looks good. He looks... You can look past him. Yeah. But in under a year he returned to his ways and the marriage was over then he hit a woman with it so he
00:30:05
so there's a woman driving and he hits her car and then he pulls her out of it and starts ripping her clothes off in the middle
00:30:14
of the road. I'm terrified of this. I think about this all the time. What? Someone intentionally
00:30:20
hitting your car so they can pull all your clothes off. Oh I mean but who doesn't?
00:30:25
Like I was at State Farm Insurance the other day and they brought that up. What a common accident situation.
00:30:33
Yeah, they're like, I know you've been any fender benders, but has anybody ripped your clothes off?
00:30:38
And I was like, no. Thankfully, not yet. There was a bender pulley offer. What? Where are you?
00:30:48
I'm going to describe that as a unique anxiety that you have. so she fought him and then he stabbed her
00:30:59
I have an anxiety about that I'm a weirdo that way she managed to get back in her car
00:31:08
and get away and she got his license plate that kind of shit fucking amazes me can she email us and tell her to call us
00:31:16
please she probably had like crazy like 30-20 vision and she was just like blowing people up
00:31:24
with her mind. It was like, you're going to fucking, you're going to pull my clothes off.
00:31:28
I'll fucking memorize every letter on your license plate. Amazing. His license plate
00:31:34
was like a vanity plate of like, I'm a killer. Love to kill. One. so figuring that he was probably up
00:31:53
Schitt's Creek at this point he broke into a home kidnapped and raped a woman and stole her car
00:31:57
two days later he snatched Sharon O'Donnell and held her with a shotgun but when he tried to switch
00:32:05
license plates on his car she escaped he then stole another car later that day he kidnapped and raped another
00:32:13
woman and he was arrested later that day this was February 3rd 1970 he was going for it
00:32:19
Top day. You know, you have those days where, like, I'm going to fucking tick every checkmark on my to-do list.
00:32:26
I'm going to get shit done today. I'm sick of it. I will go to Home Depot. I will drop those clothes off at the Goodwill.
00:32:32
I will rape a ton of people. I just have to do it. Oh, no. This is the podcast where we get fucking thrown out
00:32:46
because we're just, like, being so mean right now. Too bad. Okay. I can't live that way.
00:32:52
I can't live under that pressure. I've got to be me. That's why this works. That's why this works.
00:33:03
So he was sentenced to seven years for kidnapping and Robert Aidey pled out. He also received two more years for his parole violations.
00:33:11
He got out in May 1979, but was not listed as a sex offender. No. I mean, why would you?
00:33:19
No, he didn't do anything. He offended, but it wasn't sexual. He took up hiking as a hobby.
00:33:28
Alone in the woods. Perfect. But not like other people, he liked the seclusion of the wilderness because it
00:33:35
helped him grab women. He was a clown hiker. He liked to grab women, so that's the perfect place.
00:33:45
just three months after being released while living at a halfway house he committed his first murder
00:33:49
on august 19th 1979 etta kane 44 was walking on the trails of mount tamil pious which overlooks
00:33:55
golden gate bridge which is also where i grew up riding mountain bikes uh right next to my house
00:34:01
which is also where i asked my wife to marry me i didn't tell her this part that's why it works
00:34:10
I mean I love you and there's some other stuff we'll get to later like a week we'll talk about it
00:34:19
but this is a weird spot so Etta was alone she was attacked from behind forced to get on her knees
00:34:30
and beg for her life and then he shot her in the back of the head execution style
00:34:34
yeah her body was found the next day he had taken $10 from her wallet, credit cards, and her glasses, and left
00:34:43
very little evidence. Witnesses said they saw two lone men. One was blonde and acting strange. The other had on a
00:34:49
dark blue jacket that made him sweat, and he hid his face. Which one is it? I mean, clearly, the guy walking around
00:34:55
acting strange, smoking pot, and the guy hiding his face is the fucking killer. There's one guy I can wear which is blonde,
00:35:03
and there's another guy that's like... Also, wearing a jacket when it's hot, it creeps me out
00:35:09
so bad. That immediately gave me a stomachache to think about that. Only the fucked up people wear jackets
00:35:15
when it's hot. Just like a weird jacket. No, you're a murderer. They should be able to just
00:35:21
arrest people wearing jackets on hot days. You're a murderer or you're anorexic and you're
00:35:25
fucking cold all the time. Yeah, that's right. Either way, they should arrest them both.
00:35:29
Totally. I just spit on my iPad. Said from us. So this guy was clearly a carpenter.
00:35:37
For a brief time, people living there were freaked out, including young Dave Anthony.
00:35:43
But then things went back to normal. Like, nothing happened, everything went by,
00:35:46
and then everyone started walking the trails again. He was released from the halfway house he was living in.
00:35:51
So when he did that, he was living in a halfway house, and he went to live with his parents Remember You gotta be proud of him Old blind bitch Right And whoever the dad was Yeah Why would you Okay Gotta go to the source
00:36:05
She's like, you can live here again, but you have to do ballet more. Put on this
00:36:10
apron. He somehow found a way to pass as a normal, productive citizen. He took courses in computer
00:36:19
printing at a trade school and graduated with a degree. Then in spring, he went back to killing.
00:36:24
In March... Like pressing prints is boring. Right? You get stuff done and then you're like,
00:36:30
I gotta get back to my hobby. This computer printing is really stressing me out.
00:36:36
I gotta relax. In March, 23-year-old Barbara Schwartz was walking on Mount Tam when
00:36:44
a thin athletic man walked up to Schwartz and her dog started barking at him. He had dark hair and wore hiking boots.
00:36:51
He quickly just started stabbing her with his 10-inch knife. Fuck, man. She was stabbed 12 times. She collapsed and he
00:36:57
ran off and she was dead. Now, the reason we know this is because this was all seen by a woman who was standing in the trees.
00:37:04
Wait, what? Watching. So some woman just was sitting there standing in the trees. Standing in the trees?
00:37:09
I mean, look, everybody's a weirdo. God. That was a misprint in the fucking newspaper,
00:37:15
I promise you. What they didn't say is she had a wet nightgown on. Ma'am? Are you alright?
00:37:23
There haven't been women around here in 25 years. There's no woman in the tree. What a terrible story this is.
00:37:38
That's the tag on of our podcast. What a terrible story. What a terrible story. It's not a great one.
00:37:45
I never thought I'd be reading this in front of 400 people. This is not 400 people.
00:37:53
Now that's your anxiety talking. So, right. Seen by a woman in the trees. Unfortunately, she described Carpenter horribly
00:38:07
and the investigation would be misled for years because of her terrible description.
00:38:13
Shocking. She's crazy. Other people in the area said they saw a man wearing glasses who looked about 40.
00:38:21
That was Carpenter. The knife was found days later. Could that woman have been like an egret or something?
00:38:28
They're just like a bird standing in the forest. That's a terrible description. So mustache, yes?
00:38:41
Okay. So the knife was found days later. And a TV reporter handled it destroying the fingerprints.
00:38:57
No. This is 1970? This is 79. The guy's like touching, touching. He's just like super into touching things.
00:39:05
What a story. They're going to love this across the bay. 1979 is not that long ago.
00:39:14
No. This isn't Jack the River. We totally had fingerprints figured out at that point.
00:39:20
But other than that, just touch away. Whoever gets there first. Carpenter also lost his prison-issued glasses during the attack.
00:39:28
It's so crazy as a child from the sketches. I totally remember the glasses. Yes.
00:39:35
You're wearing them, right? Yes. I mean, weird time to bring up. This is my hero.
00:39:47
So the next day he went to an optometrist. Barbara Schwartz optometrist the woman he had killed
00:39:55
to get new glasses. On purpose? No. Total just happenstance. What the fuck? Now he had a very unique
00:40:05
prescription and had the optometrist who was questioned by police been told about his unique
00:40:11
prescription, he probably wouldn't have been able to finger Carpenter right there and then.
00:40:17
And they had the glasses because the glasses came off. So the cops had the prescription, but they never thought to be like,
00:40:24
what do you think about a 70-30? Oh my God. So now again, people living around the area are totally freaked out.
00:40:32
Not going near Mount Tam again. And then again, time goes by and people start going back to Mount Tam. The flowers
00:40:37
are so pretty. It's hard to stay away. There's great trees and there's a woman standing
00:40:44
and a grit like woman standing with a wet robe. It's fine. So on October 15th, 26-year-old
00:40:55
Ann Alderson was sitting alone watching the sunset. Don't do it. A witness... A witness saw her and
00:41:05
also saw a weird 50-year-old man, but decided against warning her. Oh, well. But I'm sure he led a fine
00:41:16
life with just him and his bottle of whiskey. just sitting there going, yeah, that's horrifying.
00:41:21
You would never forgive yourself. It's awful. That's the thing. Just be rude. Go up to people and be like,
00:41:29
hi, I know this makes me the weirdo, but there's a weirdo over there. You know, you make the call.
00:41:36
Who you hate or run away from. But as a dude, you walk over and go, hey, there's a really weird guy right there.
00:41:45
Come in close. while I describe the guy. Can I drive you home? Let me drive you away from the creek.
00:41:52
He's got curly hair and glasses and gray pants and a maroon joint I totally understand why you wouldn say it but I also just What are the fucking chances man that you see a weirdo
00:42:06
Like, I see a weirdo multiple times a day. Yeah? Looking in the mirror. Okay, so...
00:42:14
Anne was an escalation. She was raped, and then allowed to dress again, and then shot with a single bullet through the head.
00:42:22
he took her right earring and then propped her up to make it look like she was sitting against a rock
00:42:28
she also appeared to have been shot while begging for her life and he was just getting rolling
00:42:33
Shauna Mae was supposed to meet friends on November 28th in Point Reyes National Seashore
00:42:38
to go hiking, she was found two days later she was nude and had been raped and bound
00:42:42
with picture frame wire shot three times in the head and dumped into a trench right besides her body was a second
00:42:48
young woman, 22 year old Diana O'Connell, she had also gone missing this time while hiking with
00:42:57
friends. What, what, what, what? Oh, this is the worst. One of her friends was faster
00:43:03
and got ahead of her on the path. Cunt. And her other friends... Am I wrong? She was kind of a cunt. You're not wrong.
00:43:17
You're not wrong. You're not? Because I had total empathy for that person. I was like, man, she just wanted to get up the top.
00:43:22
And you guys were like, well. Congratulations, you're up there. We're talking about, like, my new boy I'm dating.
00:43:28
And you're just like, bye. Bye. Fuck you. Watch my calves. R.E.I. Fuck you. Okay.
00:43:37
Then what about her other friend who was slower that was behind her? Oh, no. Who's the cunt now?
00:43:44
I can't choose anymore. There's so many to pick from. It's a weird thing to go hiking with your friends
00:43:51
and then you all split up. No, we don't do that. That's why I don't hike. Or have friends.
00:43:59
It's not worth it. So, she also disappeared. Her friends saw nothing because they were so far ahead and behind.
00:44:10
So either friend, it was as if they were all going and then the middle person...
00:44:14
And they got to the top and they're like, where is she? That's horrifying. like off the trail. And it was supposed to be horrifying.
00:44:20
Yeah. Yeah. Diana had been shot twice in the head. A nearby, a hiker nearby heard
00:44:25
all the shots and it appears Carpenter had killed them, both the girls at the same time. Wait, the
00:44:31
So the two girls are sitting side by side in a trench and he had killed them both at once.
00:44:37
Yeah. Diana had also been strangled and raped. The police concluded one of the women
00:44:43
had interrupted Carpenter attacking the other woman, so he killed them both. Yep.
00:44:49
Just really quick. I wish I could... We had a slideshow of Mount Tam right now because it is
00:44:55
the most gorgeous place. It's so beautiful. The place where they take all the pictures of San Francisco
00:45:01
of the Golden Gate Bridge and then you see San Francisco behind it, that's Mount Tam.
00:45:06
Yeah. It's got redwood trees. It's the most for natural wonder. I mean, it's just the most incredible.
00:45:16
Like we would go on field trips there all the time in grammar school. Mountain bikes were invented there.
00:45:21
Yeah. Really? Yeah. Mountain bikes were invented. So the idea that this man is that fucking like angry that he's going to like God's most
00:45:29
most perfect place and fucking hiding and picking people off. And we all were just like, hey, you want to go to Mount Tam for the day?
00:45:36
And you would just go walking and hiking. Like everybody would just be. Mount Tam would just go there for the day and just walk around.
00:45:43
Yeah. Yeah. Crazy. It's crazy. Yeah. It's scary. Okay. So that same day, two more bodies were found a half mile away.
00:45:52
Jesus. Both had been shot in the head. What the fuck? He's in his berserker mode.
00:45:56
Yeah. He's going crazy. Creep of bananas, I think they call it in court. You're a circuit court judge?
00:46:06
I am a circuit court judge. This was my case. Oh. This might be unethical. But for the first time, one of them was male.
00:46:17
Richard Stowers was 18. His fiance, Cynthia Moreland, was 18. Also, they had been missing for quite some time, since October 11th.
00:46:26
Ballistic now tied the murders together, and suddenly everyone realized there was a serial killer on the loose on Mount Tam.
00:46:31
Police were told to avoid the area alone. Wait, what? Yeah, I have a problem with that one.
00:46:38
Wait, police were told to avoid... No, sorry, people. There we go. But also, I assume police also.
00:46:48
You know what? I just want to say this. Police are people. There's all these hiking cops that are like, I got to go up there, man.
00:47:00
Please, I have to warn you. But also, they just found two people who were killed together.
00:47:08
And then another girl, it was with two other friends. So not even alone. No, but his system is not going to help you.
00:47:15
Also, he has a gun. Like, if it's like a knife, one of you can skedaddle. But like, if there's a gun, you're both fucked.
00:47:22
Yeah. So the press named him the trailside killer. Police, local police reached out to the FBI for help.
00:47:29
Okay. The FBI came up with a profile. They said he was shy, reclusive, and probably had a speech impediment.
00:47:35
What? and was unsure of himself in social situations. He had no victim type. It was about opportunity.
00:47:41
He was like a spider waiting for a fly to come to his web. He was white, intelligent, blue collar, and had been in prison.
00:47:47
He would have also had a... Oh, boy, that's a word that corrected itself on this thing.
00:47:55
It would have had two or three boyhood indicators of... starting a fire, bedwetting, and animal cruelty.
00:48:02
Yes. So he had two of the three. The profiler concluded he had a speech impediment
00:48:08
because of the locations of the attacks. Quote, he has some kind of defect that really bothers him.
00:48:14
How do they know that? They're so good. Because they're so good. I was just like, how do you do that?
00:48:19
That's bananas. They just know. They were like sitting at a table across from him
00:48:22
and they were like, tell us about yourself. Yeah, that's what they do. They just interview all the criminals
00:48:27
that come through on that high level. There's like a whole department at the FBI
00:48:31
that's just all about it. Because he's killing in the woods. The guy's got a lisp.
00:48:36
Isn't that awesome? Isn't that amazing? And then the FBI guy did this and the local cop had been like,
00:48:45
he's a partier. He likes going out on boats. It was totally not even remotely close.
00:48:50
It's my brother-in-law. I'm positive. Wears a backwards hat. This is a lot of Sammy Hagar.
00:48:57
He's got a truck boat truck. On March 29th, 1981, Ellen Marie Hansen and Stephen
00:49:07
Hertel, students at UC Davis, were hiking in Santa Cruz. Now this is about 80 miles south of
00:49:13
Mount Tam. Carpenter walked up to them and threatened them with a gun, demanding Ellen let him rape her.
00:49:19
She was not down with the plan. Steve begged to be let go, and then Carpenter shot Ellen point blank twice
00:49:27
in the head. Steve ran away, and he was shot in the neck, but he did not die. Steve gave police a great description of Carpenter,
00:49:35
unlike the fucking woman in the woods who was like, he looks like a hawk. Oh, no.
00:49:45
She had seen someone be stabbed 12 times. Yeah, that'll fuck it up. Makes you squint.
00:49:52
And then you can't get anybody's facial features correct. And she was in a tree the whole fucking night.
00:49:58
Oh, did I not mention she had grown into the tree? Oh. Yeah, she was part of the tree.
00:50:02
Oh, she was some kind of an orc thing? Was she from Middle Earth? She was an ant.
00:50:10
Oh, was it ant? I got deep into it. Others came forward and said they had seen Carpenter in the area and fleeing in a foreign car.
00:50:21
Someone said the foreign car was a Fiat. Which is hilarious because it's a very popular Marin.
00:50:27
Do you remember that? Yeah. A composite was placed in newspapers and run on TVs, right?
00:50:32
So now they have this drawing out there. It's running everywhere. The woman then called police and said she had met that man on a cruise to Japan 26 years earlier.
00:50:43
And that was the woman in the forest. You doubted her. But she came back hard. She's back.
00:50:54
She's making right. Yep. On her own. and she said that the man had been bothering her and her daughter with inappropriate
00:51:02
behavior and he had a stutter and he was a ship's purser fuck and it was my dad and he used to be a fireman
00:51:14
what Mr. Garrett Garrett and she had his signature in a book which she still had
00:51:22
why did that happen they used to love to get serial killer signatures before they really kicked it off?
00:51:32
That was this thing in the 60s. This is the point when you're writing a script and you go, let's just hustle along.
00:51:38
What about a lady on a Chinese cruise that met the guy 26 years old? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
00:51:42
People don't go on cruises anymore. No, no, no, no. Just have him do it. Okay, but there were a lot of men
00:51:48
named David Carpenter in Northern California. So Carpenter then grew a beard. On May 2nd, Heather Roxanne Skaggs
00:51:56
told her boyfriend, she's 20. What's going on over there? Oh, I thought you guys were up to something.
00:52:02
I saw it in the corner of my eye. I don't know. You were looking at each other. Yeah, we're going to jump on your back.
00:52:09
But not right now. We're planning it for later. Don't worry about it. I'm going to move my chair.
00:52:19
So Heather Roxanne Skaggs, 20, tells her boyfriend she's going to see David Carpenter to buy a used car.
00:52:27
She was a student at a place where Carpenter taught people how to use computer typesetting machines.
00:52:32
What the fuck kind of crazy time is this? Before leaving, she gave her boyfriend
00:52:38
the number and the address of David Carpenter and when she expected to return. Who the fuck does that
00:52:44
unless they're creeped out by the guy, right? I mean, you're never like... Here's all the information of this person.
00:52:50
She did not return. The boyfriend went and confronted Carpenter, which is fucking ballsy beyond words.
00:52:56
Good for him. Did you kill my girlfriend? Carpenter said she had never come and then the boyfriend called police.
00:53:04
Carpenter's name raised a flag as did Heather being Lord and Carpenter looked exactly like the composite drawing.
00:53:11
Police then contacted his parole officer who immediately realized Carpenter fit into everything police were saying.
00:53:17
But just then, when they called on the phone and not at any point earlier. Oh my God.
00:53:22
You talking about Murdery David? Wait a second. He kept inviting me. Fuck, that guy creeps me out.
00:53:31
Shoot. You know what? I should have thought of this before. I'm sorry. I stopped watching the news because it depresses me.
00:53:37
But now I realize. I didn't want to take it in all the time. Yeah, I know that. You know, he came in Wednesday covered in blood.
00:53:42
And I was like, this seems... But then I had my book club. And I don't know. It all just kind of slipped my mind.
00:53:49
Yeah. I don't care about anything anymore. So unfortunately this is where it fucked up Unfortunately Carver is This is where it fucked up I mean this is where government records you like really guys So unfortunately this is where it fucked up Unfortunately Carpenter This is where it fucked up I mean this is where government records you like really guys So unfortunately Carpenter had not shown up in the records of released inmates
00:54:08
when they initially looked due to a technicality. He'd been released by California prisons to serve a federal sentence,
00:54:17
so he was technically in federal custody, so they didn't count him as a released prisoner.
00:54:22
so they could have, with the records, found him. Because that first woman he killed,
00:54:26
he left his prison-issued glasses and they could have tracked him down right there.
00:54:30
This is just like a three's company I saw once. This insane misunderstanding. Except for...
00:54:40
Oh, you ropers. So, the multi-agency task force started following him. Then one day they saw him carrying a bag
00:54:53
and they approached him and they told him he was under arrest. And at first he was confused
00:54:57
and then he said, please don't hurt me. I bet they punched him right in the face.
00:55:08
The pieces quickly fell into place. There was tons of evidence. Everyone who saw him was brought in to identify him.
00:55:15
Stephen Hurdle, who had been shot in the neck, ID'd him out of a lineup. Six out of seven witnesses did the same.
00:55:20
Carpenter was formally charged in the murder and attempted murder in Santa Cruz.
00:55:25
At his arraignment, he stuttered so badly he had a difficult time answering the judge's questions,
00:55:30
which was simply to agree that his name was as stated. Heather Scog's body was found a couple of weeks later.
00:55:38
His total number of murder victims was nine. He was tried in San Diego because you could not do it in Marin.
00:55:45
He was convicted and sentenced to die in the gas chamber, and he's still on death row in San Quentin.
00:55:50
Is he still alive? still alive and he's our next everyone Davey get out here get out here
00:55:59
you fucking scamp you son of a bitch what is your problem fuck so that that's fucked up
00:56:11
that was between that one and I mean I'm sure you guys had the Richard Ramirez were you here then
00:56:18
that was fucking terrifying I'm a baby that one I've never heard that one before. That was amazing.
00:56:23
No one knows about that one. I've never heard of it. Do you want to hear something really weird?
00:56:26
When the hillside stranglers were out in LA, I was like, how the fuck can they call them the week on our trailside time?
00:56:34
I literally had a moment of, you can't do that. It's our thing. It's your property.
00:56:39
For a year and a half, we didn't go near the place that we all hung out on. That's crazy.
00:56:46
I bet you drank a lot less beer that summer. is it a summer i don't know well i mean a year and a half a year and a half is a
00:56:55
what it's a long summer that's bananas i've never heard of that before okay we're back dealing with uh true crime in a in a live show format in a live and inappropriate
00:57:15
format. Here we are. Yeah. So that's Dave's story. Do we have any case updates for this one?
00:57:22
Oh, we do. So a minor update. David Carpenter is 94 years old and remains on death row in San
00:57:29
Quentin State Prison. Isn't that, but now he's one of the oldest inmates there. I.
00:57:34
So crazy. I mean, yeah, the fact that you can last that long in prison, because I do think
00:57:39
people talk about how prison kind of just ages you quickly for obvious reasons. I mean, is he
00:57:45
thriving in there? That would be terrifying. It's just so wild. Just the whole, and this man like
00:57:52
terrorized the entire, all of Northern California for a long time. So it's, he truly was a Zodiac
00:57:59
type for everybody. And like listening to that story and like he got away with so much for so
00:58:06
long and how frustrating and like all those stories from the 70s and 80s always are where it's like
00:58:12
you know they got out of prison in nine months they didn't serve their full sentence they got
00:58:17
out they got away with it it's just and also his his whole kind of plan where he is up in this
00:58:24
place you know like especially like i always just imagine mount tam but that idea that it's just
00:58:31
It's like you are basically, it's 1977, and you're just kind of out in the wilderness that all these people enjoy and go to every single day.
00:58:40
Like it's a real thing up there, and you're just hiding out, waiting to be a monster.
00:58:47
Totally. That like, yeah, it's just, it's worst case scenario in the serial killer kind of story world.
00:58:56
He's horrifying. All right, now let's get into your story. This one is a classic and it's epic.
00:59:02
This is Karen's story. It's the Wineville Chicken Coop Murders. the art of trash talk, and what it really means to be ladylike.
00:59:32
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search the matchup with Aaliyah, and listen now.
00:59:36
Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
00:59:43
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
00:59:50
You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:59:54
All episodes are out now Was this before he wrote his stories It must have been What Okay I don think that true I telling you The guy was a spy Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl
01:00:06
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.
01:00:15
This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime.
01:00:25
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.
01:00:32
I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:00:43
Well, I chose to, I wanted to do someone, I wanted to do something really local.
01:00:49
and so I googled Beverly Center serial killer as it's that was my dream I decided to shoot for the stars
01:00:59
that's what I wanted you can't just a guy stalking the Armani store yes he's just pulling a piano wire
01:01:08
around guys that come out of the Armani store too much cologne um uh there isn't one
01:01:21
there isn't one I'm sorry I just thought maybe if there was like it was an old location of something
01:01:27
from old Los Angeles whatever so but then I remembered one that's semi local and really awesome are the
01:01:35
Wineville Chicken Coop murders do you guys know those it's what the Clint Eastwood movie The Changeling was based on
01:01:41
if you don't know if you saw that or not let me reenact Angelina Jolie's star turn
01:01:47
as playing Christine Collins in The Changeling. My son! That was it. She did that. Oh, that's alright.
01:01:59
That's alright. Don't clap. It was much too loud. But that's exactly how she did it in the movie
01:02:05
50 times. Yeah. Can we get the My Son for you again? Can we hear that four more times?
01:02:13
She was in that movie. I remember watching it and going, she's distractingly beautiful.
01:02:19
We were like, why would she be? You're like, nothing bad ever happened to her. No, nothing bad ever happens to this person.
01:02:23
She's in a castle. The woman who was the mother wasn't that hot. In real life? She was not a hot mom.
01:02:30
No. And that's all you wanted. She's fine. But when you hear the story, at the end of the story,
01:02:41
you'll think oh I wish the mom had been hotter but go ahead after you hear about this horrible child murder
01:02:48
and death you're gonna be like is the mom an eight or above because if this if we're in a butterface situation
01:02:55
you know what I mean turn this bug out of her I just shamed the shit out of her the only way we could have sympathy for her is if she was Angelina Jolie
01:03:04
hot there is a book by a man named Anthony Flacco called The Road Out of Hell, Sanford Clark and the True Story of the Wineville Chicken Murders.
01:03:14
It's got very good reviews on Amazon. I don't have time to read it. But if you want to,
01:03:20
if you're looking for facts... If you're like murders are chickens. Yeah. Chickens are murdered every day in this country.
01:03:28
No, no, no, no. This isn't my vegan podcast festival. This is, just to give you a sense,
01:03:35
this was such a horrible crime and such a stain on the community that Wineville permanently changed its name.
01:03:42
It's now called Mira Loma. Oh, shit. That's how huge this was and bad it was. It was 1926.
01:03:50
Changed all the signs and everything. Yo, yeah, yeah, yeah. The two signs they have.
01:03:58
They use the same letters. They just kind of rearranged them into Mira Loma. What can we turn this into?
01:04:04
We need a town with a bunch of L's. We can flip the W upside down. Mira. Wait. No, is it?
01:04:11
Yep, it's just upside down Wineville. I can see it right here. This is great. All right.
01:04:27
Gordon Northcutt was 17 years old when he moved to Los Angeles from Canada with his parents.
01:04:33
And when he was 19, he asked his dad to buy him a chicken ranch in Wineville. As you do when you're 19.
01:04:39
Because you're like, how am I punk rock? Chickens. That's how I'm going to do it.
01:04:46
I'll feed them and water them. Take care of the land. So two years later, he went back up to Canada and convinced his sister, who still lived there,
01:04:57
to let him take her son, his 13-year-old nephew, Sanford Clark, back down to California
01:05:03
to help him work on the chicken ranch and raise the chickens. What? Yeah. Like, hey, I need some labor.
01:05:09
What's your kid doing? Yes. It was the 20s, and so it was kind of common for young boys to have jobs
01:05:16
and work and help the family out. In any other situation, when your uncle isn't a fucking
01:05:20
creep-ass murderer, it would be, like, good for the kid. Right. But, like... But there's always that shit.
01:05:26
Everyone's in the blue. Yeah. So is that one time. Motherfucker. As I wrote here, the problem was Gordon Northcutt was the bad kind of uncle.
01:05:34
Oh, no. Oh, get used to it. This is fucking dark as shit. That was an uncle joke.
01:05:41
Brace yourself. As a teen in Canada, he was accused of molesting a very young boy.
01:05:47
But his mother claimed that he was innocent and would never be able to do anything like that.
01:05:52
So the police did not charge him. Oh my God What I mean which you know I used to be very bitter that my mother didn participate in my life enough
01:06:05
Like, she didn't come to my plays and stuff. She was never at, like, a softball game.
01:06:09
And then I read this story of Gordon and his mother, and I'm like, I think it's for the best.
01:06:18
The rest of the family knew that he was volatile, and he once even beat up his own father.
01:06:23
Jesus. And for that, he got a chicken ranch. You know what? I get that. That's something I get.
01:06:28
That's okay. No, I know. His father actually ended up spending the back half of his life in an insane asylum.
01:06:37
So the family had a lot of mental illness and a lot of criminals. He had two, Gordon had two uncles that were also in San Quentin.
01:06:44
So not the greatest group from Canada. Usually you people are so lovely and polite with your delicious chocolate.
01:06:50
But this guy was a fucking lunatic. All right. So he brought Sanford back down to work on the chicken ranch and immediately began abusing and raping him.
01:07:04
They would also together, he would make Sanford drive into Los Angeles with him.
01:07:10
And so then they would drive around neighborhoods and he would ask boys if they needed extra money, if they wanted to take a job, if they needed extra money.
01:07:18
And the boys would get in the car because Sanford, the young boy, was already in the car.
01:07:22
yeah this was back this was before stranger danger wasn't even on anyone's mind they were like yay
01:07:29
strangers back then go meet yourself a stranger young America was the posters on every bus job
01:07:37
alright so he did that so much that he realized he would go into either Riverside County
01:07:46
or LA and pick up boys molest them attack them and then bring them back to their neighborhood
01:07:51
and he just dropped them off catch and release but he slowly started yeah I mean
01:07:59
but he slowly started to realize that that was incredibly dangerous and that's when which is how it always goes
01:08:07
with serial killers that's when it escalated don't leave a fucking witness so he also
01:08:15
did a thing where he put a help wanted out in the paper asking young boys to come and work on his chicken ranch.
01:08:23
And no one was like, uh, that's a fucking issue. Yeah. Everyone's like, no, I think young boys love chickens.
01:08:29
I think it would be, it's probably best. Hey, Dad, there's a man with a bunch of chickens.
01:08:33
Can I go? Go on, son. Yippee! Yeah, I wrote here like a sort of murder postmates.
01:08:44
That's awful. Boo, boo, Karen. Well, it's just Craigslist. Karen's turning on the audience.
01:08:53
It's how I feel my most comfortable. So he did this for two years. Jesus. And boys were disappearing without a trace.
01:09:02
So. Do we know how many boys? Well, yes, eventually. But they don't know like the exact number because he was so fucking crazy that when he finally went to court, he kept admitting to all the murders, then saying he didn't do it.
01:09:16
Then saying he did four, then saying he did 50. and the problem was he was so incredibly thorough he what he did was he would kill
01:09:26
kill them take their bodies out to the desert and burn them and then take the bones from whatever
01:09:32
wherever he burned them and then dispose of them on the ranch so they had to when the cops were
01:09:38
finally raided the ranch and were looking they were just fine they're having to piece together
01:09:42
tiny shards of bone from all different people. This thing is a fucking crazy nightmare. There's tons of
01:09:51
buttons out in the lobby if you need any. I was going to say, I was about to release some balloons.
01:09:57
I'm not going to do that now. They found a decapitated teenager's body in a burlap sack
01:10:02
on the side of the road in La Puente. Why did he leave him there? Why did he leave a decapitated
01:10:09
boy? They think that happened because he found him, attacked him, killed him in all
01:10:14
one spot, and then decapitated him thinking if they don't have the head they won't ever find out who it is.
01:10:22
Interesting. It's a little lazy though considering how thorough he is. Yeah, escalating.
01:10:26
Well, this was his first one. He's just getting warmed up. Don't you worry. Then in
01:10:35
March, that's when he Walter Collins was going to the movies. His mom had given him some money. She went to work.
01:10:41
He was walking down to the movies and he pulled his old, do you want to, do you need extra money thing?
01:10:47
Yeah. Chickens get in the car. And he did. So he disappeared, um, like without a trace and cause his mom was coming back from work like really soon.
01:10:56
She was, it wasn't like some long thing that he was by himself. And that story, his disappearance and the manhunt that happened after that was just blew up.
01:11:05
It was huge. And it was a nationwide story. Then in May, two brothers, Lewis and Nelson Winslow, age 10 and 12, disappeared on their walk home from their model yacht club meeting in Pomona.
01:11:18
I mean, it was a great meeting. Yeah. The different yachts that were discussed. When you think of yacht clubs, you think Pomona.
01:11:26
Yeah. You know? For sure. You do. Yeah. For sure. The rich, the elite. So Walter Collins story is the one that gets focused on in the Changeling and it is the
01:11:39
most fascinating because these things that happen in it are so fucking crazy aside from
01:11:44
the kidnapping and murder itself. So basically the LAPD at this same time was under investigation for mass corruption.
01:11:55
So they were already had really bad press, they were you know they were really doing
01:12:00
badly. And then Walter Collins disappearance, it was five months and they still hadn't found
01:12:06
him or any trace. They had no clues whatsoever. So this is when they were, they were the,
01:12:12
the mayor and the police chief were selling, you could buy to become a cop. And, and once you were
01:12:19
a cop and you could buy your way up. So there were no like actual guys who were doing law enforcement.
01:12:25
You just paid and then you become a detective. Yeah. Now they pay you $30,000 a year.
01:12:30
and everyone's happy. What just happened? I'm sorry. Go ahead and take that. Bye.
01:12:40
Sorry, go on. But yeah, there were literally... Well, actually, you know, what's funny is that's how my mother's great-grandfather,
01:12:47
I don't know how far away that is from me, but that's how he got into the Oakland Police Department.
01:12:51
Yeah, he's a super crooked cop. I come from a long line of crooked cops. Well, yeah, they were already doing bad soap,
01:12:59
But this is now this is an example of the LAPD. Like they already, you know, they've had a hard time with it.
01:13:06
They've they've done they've mishandled many, many things, as we all know. This one is unbelievable.
01:13:12
So after five months, they don't have a body. They don't have clues. They have nothing.
01:13:18
So they get a phone call that they have found a boy in DeKalb, Illinois, who is claiming to be Walter Collins.
01:13:26
OK, we're in. So they're like, this is amazing. So they do phone calls. So the police department orchestrates this huge press conference at the train station when he's going to show up.
01:13:40
And it's going to be like, and the happy reunion and the cops are the ones that did it.
01:13:44
So when the boy walks off, everyone's seen the movie. Or if you have, the boy walks off the train and Christine Collins is staying there and she's like, that's not my son.
01:13:53
Because it wasn't her son. But he was in Illinois. so the cop says why don't you take him home and try him out for a couple weeks
01:14:03
she's like what does that even mean yeah it's so crazy what it's basically saying is
01:14:13
politics is more important than anything move out of the picture frame and maybe women are so crazy
01:14:18
but they must have been like no he's not your boy we need this one we need a win
01:14:25
What's the diff, man? Just take one. The LA Weekly's here. We're going to get our picture in every paper.
01:14:31
Meanwhile, where did that boy come from? Well, I tell you. Well, here we go. So, of course, three weeks later
01:14:39
when she's living in a house with a boy who's pretending to be her son, which can you imagine how creepy that is?
01:14:45
He's pretending and he won't drop it. And she's sitting in the other room like, um, okay.
01:14:52
So she goes back. future killer in the house also. He's up to no good. So she goes back to Captain J.J. Jones,
01:15:01
who was the man in charge at the time. Yeah. And she has Walter's dental records.
01:15:07
She has signed affidavits from witnesses who have met the son and say, this is not Walter Collins.
01:15:13
She's a big stack of evidence. It's not him. And so the police chief did what any good civil servant would do
01:15:21
in a situation like that. He threw her in a mental institution. Well, she was cuckoo.
01:15:26
I mean, for justice. So finally they get it out. And the only reason that any of this got brought to light
01:15:37
is because she, when Walter first went missing, there was this, it's a priest, or he was like a pastor,
01:15:43
and I'm not going to be able to say his name because it's crazy. It looks like someone had a stroke as they were typing on Murderpedia.
01:15:51
It's like, that's not Polish, and it's not Czech. like set there's a lot of v's and e's and z's so i was like i'm not even gonna cut and paste that
01:15:59
that's how much i can't handle that name i support that but he basically was the one that got it on
01:16:04
all the radio shows and stuff like on he made it um because he had a uh every sunday he had a radio
01:16:10
show and so he talked about finding walter collins all the time so then when she was put into the
01:16:14
mental institution he was like advocating for her and trying to get her out so eventually they get
01:16:20
out of the boy that he had run away from home because he had a really mean stepmother.
01:16:25
And he had been on the road for like three weeks by himself, a nine year old kid.
01:16:30
And he was somewhere there was like basically he was in a restaurant in in DeKalb.
01:16:36
And like an old hobo that was in the restaurant with him was like, you look like that boy that's
01:16:40
missing in California. And then the little boy hears California and goes, I'm going to go to Cal.
01:16:45
I'm going to say I'm him and go to California and meet Tom Mix, my favorite cowboy from the movies.
01:16:51
And so he tells the guy, I am Walter Collins. And so he calls the cops and they Christine paid for his
01:16:59
train ticket to come out. This kid is smarter than all of us. Yes, for sure. The kid got what he wanted.
01:17:05
Everyone else is fucked, right? Yes. Did he meet the cowboy? He got to be in four
01:17:11
Tom Mix films. No. Karen, we believed you. They really did believe me. I believed you.
01:17:23
You did? Karen's always lying, as she says. Now I want to lie more. This fucking thing.
01:17:35
All right, so anyway, simultaneously, Sanford Clark's sister, Jessie, had been getting letters from him,
01:17:45
but not that often. He told her he would write her all the time. But he wasn't writing her all the time and the
01:17:51
things that he was writing in the letters did not sound like him at all. It was very vague information He wouldn say if he was okay So she was getting worried up in Canada canada so she decided i gonna go down and pay them a visit and when she shows up she like
01:18:05
this is bad news something is terribly wrong because it smelled like dead boy everywhere
01:18:10
yeah there was kind of how much and how fucked up the place must have been if he's scattering boy
01:18:14
bones i mean well no it's it's yeah it's gonna be like a texas chainsaw massacre-esque situation
01:18:20
inside the house. She was horrified by their house living conditions and by the fact that clearly
01:18:29
at this time, probably 14-year-old boy was made to work hard labor every day and looked terrible, was
01:18:37
shaken and whatever. So she, one night when the bad uncle was asleep, she gets him to
01:18:43
tell her what's going on. And the story that he tells her is so horrifying. She cannot believe it, but
01:18:49
they realize um they can't do anything while she's still there because he'll probably just kill both
01:18:55
of them so she acted like nothing happened she didn't know anything then she went back to canada
01:19:00
and they went they went to the american consulate to take the boy with her no no well this was this
01:19:08
was the two of their their it was jesse and sanford's plan that they couldn't act like
01:19:14
anything happen because he would kill them. Run. I can't justify her choices. Karen. I wish I could. I believe in
01:19:24
them. Karen, goddammit, tell us. I know. I wish I could. So, they contact the American
01:19:33
Consulate. The American Consulate calls the LAPD. Something else comes up about immigration
01:19:39
so they end up sending two immigration officers out to the ranch. and as they're heading out
01:19:45
it's a big long driveway to get to the house so Gordon sees the cars coming and tells Sanford
01:19:53
stall them I'm running for the tree line and if you don't stall them I'll shoot you from the tree line
01:19:58
and then he takes off running and he ends up escaping meeting up with his mother
01:20:03
and escaping to Canada then the cops get Sanford and they're holding him and he starts telling
01:20:10
them everything and I mean, the stories are horrifying. It's little boys held in chicken coops.
01:20:18
Him making Sanford either kill the little boys with him or do it himself so that he would also be
01:20:25
complicit and not tell. So basically he had this little boy convinced that if he said anything, he was
01:20:31
the one that was going to go to jail. It's super crazy. Fuck. We have an audience. This is so fucked up.
01:20:40
I just realized. Well, this is, I mean, what are we going to do? This is what we do.
01:20:48
No, I know. They know. They're just making noises. Sometimes they laugh at home and sometimes they just groan and fall on the floor.
01:20:58
And sometimes they go, fuck you guys. We just have to deal with all of it. So when the police raided the farm, they found axes covered in blood and farm equipment that was coated in blood and human hair.
01:21:11
There were bone fragments in several shallow graves around the ranch, and almost all of them were linked to male children.
01:21:18
It was later proven that the unidentified Mexican boy whose head had been chopped off was one of Northcott's first victims, and police later identified him as Alvin Gauthier.
01:21:28
Sanford testified that Gordon made him burn the head and crush the skull and scatter the bones.
01:21:33
Inside the house, they found a book that was believed to belong to the Winslow brothers
01:21:37
and several letters the boys tried to write to their parents, which is a horrifying idea that he's keeping them long enough
01:21:43
that he's going in and going like, you can write a letter to your parents if you want to.
01:21:49
While nothing of Walter Collins was discovered, Sanford Clark remained adamant that he had been one of the boys kept hostage on the farm.
01:21:57
And according to the... Oh, sorry. the police could only only had enough evidence to prove three murders which were the Winslow
01:22:05
brothers and Alvin Gauthier but they believe at one point um Gordon admitted to 20 they believe
01:22:12
that there could be many many more because he basically well how long did this go on for two
01:22:17
years I mean there's tons more yeah and they just can't it's they're they're scattered it's like
01:22:22
they basically built it for to hide bodies, this ranch. It's crazy. So, I know, right?
01:22:34
So his mother, Sarah, was convicted of killing Walter Collins. So it turns out when they go up
01:22:40
to extradite him from Canada, he's caught with his mother. And the mother says, I killed Walter
01:22:46
Collins and I killed a bunch of them. That's a great mom. That's a mom that cares about her kid.
01:22:52
It's a mom who is willing to participate. Right. She... We're saying the same thing, right?
01:22:58
Yes, I think so. This is why I can't be a mom. I'd be like, take this fucking psycho.
01:23:05
You know what? You do your murdering out in the chicken coop. I don't want to be a part of it.
01:23:08
No, I will not take the blame. No, she was one of the ones who said, who encouraged him to kill his victims.
01:23:16
She was there from the beginning. This is what, according to Sanford, she was in from the beginning
01:23:23
and was participating the whole time when they were on trial she came out and said that she
01:23:29
and Gordon were lovers she said that Gordon was the incestuous son of her husband and her daughter
01:23:39
I mean it was apparently the trial was in total insanity and total chaos and everyday there were like different
01:23:46
horrifying headlines and she She was sentenced to life imprisonment, but she was paroled after 12 years.
01:23:53
Let's get her back. What Yeah Yeah Fucking It was what I thought was proper at the time That was a joke where I the judge now
01:24:05
I feel like my story was like an explosion of glitter compared to yours. That's right.
01:24:13
During his trial, Gordon demanded to represent himself, so his two lawyers quit, and then he cross-examined himself.
01:24:20
Oh, my God. Because he's insane. And probably like grilling himself. Why did you kill the boys?
01:24:28
I killed the boys! He was found guilty and he was hanged at San Quentin in February of 1929.
01:24:39
No, they got that done fast. No, hang, yeah. Yeah, they were like, goodbye. Bye.
01:24:44
And as we've all seen, but Walter Collins' mother did go to San Quentin on the day he was being hanged
01:24:49
to beg him to please tell her if he killed her son or not. and he fucked with her until they put the bag on his head
01:24:57
and walked him up the stairs. So she believed for the rest of her life there was a possibility that her son was alive.
01:25:02
That poor baby. I decided to end on the downest note I possibly find. He went out strong.
01:25:09
Right? Bad strong is just as good as... He got a little bit of credit. He went out, he's like, you know what?
01:25:15
I'm going to stay true to myself. I'm a fucking total asshole. Yeah. I'm taking it all the way to the chair.
01:25:21
He's fucking Kanye over here. What's yours, Georgia? Okay, that was great. It's great, the right word.
01:25:34
Okay, we are back in. Oh, what a fucking, what a, like, it sounds like a Stephen King book, you know?
01:25:42
It's every parent's nightmare. It is the wildest. Like, no, no, we're not going to look into this.
01:25:48
We're going to put a woman into a mental institution instead of just trying to help her in any way.
01:25:55
You insisting that that is not your son and other people agreeing with you? Well, too bad.
01:26:00
You're wrong. And then they put her in a fucking mental institution. What the fuck?
01:26:06
So crazy. So there's no updates for this story. It's been over for a long time. Although I do definitely recommend watching The Changeling.
01:26:16
Because that movie, even though I was, you know, making a lot of jokes about Angelina Jolie's performance, you know, in certain parts, it really kind of like the idea that you could watch and as a true crime, like, listener, kind of follow that thing of like, oh, these are children getting picked off the street.
01:26:36
Yeah. The timing of it, everything about it is so scary. The corruption of the LAPD, everything going on.
01:26:44
It's like almost like they're working in tandem, but they're not. They're just like the perfect thing for a serial killer to be working in that environment.
01:26:50
So it's like, oh, yeah, I can just drive out to my unincorporated city where my farm is and put yet one more boy into a barn where these children are waiting.
01:27:02
I mean, that's just like the scariest thing. While you're watching The Changeling, keep an eye out for a cameo by comedian Ricky Lindholm as well.
01:27:10
Oh, what's she in? She's a nurse in the mental institution. I just remembered that.
01:27:17
Wow. I know. All right. Well, now we're going on to story number three for this episode.
01:27:24
Story number three. Horrible story number three. We didn't yet know the pattern of tell a good, like a somewhat uplifting story at the end for everyone.
01:27:32
Yes. We didn't. And we won't have that for many hundreds of episodes. Well, especially for live.
01:27:38
Yes. This being the kickoff of our live journey where, first of all, like, and first and foremost, it's like, it was like, yeah, we have to now go do live shows, which I, of course, was at least used to in terms of like what that might feel like, what we might have to be doing.
01:27:54
But like, we can all podcast. But like when you invite 300 people to watch you, it changes the chemistry of any conversation, obviously.
01:28:04
Then we invite a guest. like there couldn't be more variables coming at us that night it was wild i am glad though that
01:28:12
this was our first live show instead of like the chicago 2000 seat theater yeah like standing
01:28:18
ovation thing because like for me who's like i'm not a stand-up comedian i'm not used to performing
01:28:24
in front of you know a fucking conference room full of people like having you and dave there
01:28:29
like i could count on you guys i could let you guys take over and i could rely on you guys and
01:28:35
And the crowd was kind of smallish, so it was like friends. Yes. And it felt a lot less, like there was a lot less pressure.
01:28:43
Yes, for sure. So I'm glad that this was my first live show. Me too. And I think it was the perfect one because ultimately we're not stand-ups.
01:28:52
We are there to do a live podcast. So we're supposed to, like our conversation is the most important thing.
01:28:59
Our combined, what we do together is what people want to see. not like individual people doing a little show it's like it's it's like how we engage i also
01:29:10
think dave anthony was the perfect guest because he's he's gets all of that he also knows me really
01:29:16
well exactly and he kind of was just like here's how are we going to support any he's been doing
01:29:22
podcasts so long he's just there like how are we going to make this a good podcast and he knows
01:29:27
yeah and i do remember talking with vince on the way over and just being like i'm going to let these
01:29:31
two professional comedians like do their thing I'm not gonna I hate it when you I'm not gonna
01:29:36
try to get in there with them and you know have the last word and get in there I'm like I'm gonna
01:29:41
rely on them and I'm gonna be myself and you did great I mean Allison when Allison and I were just
01:29:47
kind of going over this she's like Georgia was so funny and like you would have never known that it
01:29:52
was her first like or both of your first anything and I was just like yeah because I think that thing is that like I think you are a natural I think I always told you that where it like all of these
01:30:05
you have, you have amazing, and I'm sorry to say trauma instincts where you're like,
01:30:10
what do, how do I need to adapt? How do I need to change? I can do this. And you're hyper,
01:30:14
so good. Thank you. Yeah. So, so essentially you're just like, how do I hang and how do I,
01:30:20
And you know how to be funny, especially conversationally funny. So like you didn't have anything to worry about.
01:30:26
But it was a great relief to be like, oh, this is something, of course, I absolutely want to do.
01:30:32
But for some people is pure torture. Totally. Totally. Yeah. I miss it. Well, we still have another 45 hours, 45 hours of this episode to go.
01:30:43
So now it's time for Georgia's story about Mark Aaron Rust. All right. I'm going back to Australia.
01:30:55
Okay. Because you did research there about the last one. By the way, that one was fucking awesome.
01:31:01
Just throwing that out there. Thank you. Australia, you got some fucked up shit going on over there, man.
01:31:08
So Mark Aaron Rust, fucking murderer. He was born. I mean. You're not going to believe this.
01:31:19
Don't ease into it. Don't creep up on that story. You know the theme of this podcast?
01:31:28
So he was born in 1965. He is a self-described loner. He was 13 when he started following girls
01:31:37
while fascinating about having sex with them. And he started exposing himself to women as a teen.
01:31:45
And he really liked the reaction of the women that he would expose. like it's so creepy
01:31:50
like he would masturbate in front of them and like love that they were shocked and horrified
01:31:54
that's the yeah that's the whole thing that's fucked up man yeah alright he's described it as
01:31:59
obese disheveled odorous man who expressed his limited vocabulary in a in a in a monotone
01:32:08
he's like a creepy creepy was this written by a high school cheerleader she's mean
01:32:16
Georgia Hartstark So he was charged seven times with indecency offenses, but was only fined, never convicted.
01:32:26
What year is this? Well, he was born in 65. It's probably like mid to late 70s, early 80s.
01:32:33
I mean, everything was cool in the 70s. I get it. They just were like, go ahead.
01:32:38
So he was creepy. He was weird. He married twice because... They always do. They always fucking do.
01:32:46
They must be great at small talk. You know what I mean? He's like a smelly... He's like a...
01:32:55
I love bowling. It works. It's about pheromones. Okay, so after his... After his second marriage ended, his wife at the time's daughter, his stepdaughter, claimed he had sexually assaulted her.
01:33:23
He was never charged, but had to attend sessions with a sex offenders treatment program.
01:33:28
But he left halfway through the first session because he thought the program was stupid.
01:33:34
Yeah, but that's, I mean, let's not judge it until we know. Yeah, yeah. Until we take the program.
01:33:40
Right. So he was working as a taxi driver in, so this is April 1999. And so Maya Jackick, she's 30, and she's walking in the neighborhood where he's driving a taxi.
01:33:52
Don't look at my notes. It's too late. I've read them all upside down. All right.
01:33:56
This is good. She's a fucking sweet angel. She was born in Croatia in 69. And she grew up, in 1990, she fled the country due to the civil war with Serbia.
01:34:07
So she's like getting a better start in Australia. She's a sales assistant in a clothing store.
01:34:12
And she's in this neighborhood for some fucking reason. It's an upper-class neighborhood.
01:34:18
He sees her. I like the details. And he says to her, he says, want a lift? In an Australian accent.
01:34:28
Like a LL. Do it. I can't do the Australian accent. Come on, do it. You want a lift, mate?
01:34:33
No, it's not. There we go. That was Peaky Blinders. and she said she you know she's she's a fucking she's staying sexy and she's like fuck yourself
01:34:42
and he says how about a root which i guess in australian means like brood means fuck yeah yeah
01:34:47
and she says no and keeps walking he drives after her and parks in a spot she had to walk by
01:34:53
he exposes herself to him and wanting to see her horrified face and this fucking amazing person
01:35:01
scoffed at him. No. Not with the guy. Not what he wants to have happen. No. She was fine. No, he does.
01:35:11
He snaps, grabs her, pulls her into this bushy area and tries to rape her and it escalated to murder
01:35:21
when he chokes her to death. Then he covers her body. She's in the bushes. He covers her, but he wanted
01:35:27
her to be found in a creepy, fucked up way. and it's like abandoned building. So he calls from a payphone nearby
01:35:35
to 911 in this country. It's 000. Thank you. And he says, hey, I was just walking by
01:35:45
and there's a body. I see a body. And two of these things happened and the cops didn't find her body.
01:35:55
And so finally, he fucking, five days later, he fucking... After him calling multiple times, he puts a note under a cop's windshield that says,
01:36:07
like, hi, there's a dead girl's body. He puts an arrow, basically, pointing to where it is.
01:36:21
He literally, the last phone call, he's like, do I have to draw you a map? And he's like, I'm drawing a map.
01:36:27
I've now engraved an invitation for you to come and see the body. It's so sad. Yes. And then they finally
01:36:34
find her. But they realize that the calls and the fucking note has to do... Clearly it's not.
01:36:39
They just hear from across the street. Finally! Yeah. So the release to the public, nobody fucking
01:36:48
identifies the note or the voice, the calls. Six days later, the body's found. so he's in jail
01:36:57
in late 1999 for trespassing released on parole in 2001 10 days later after that
01:37:04
he grabs a woman and rapes her and sexually assaults her and then but she got out
01:37:14
so she got away from him yeah yeah yeah so Megumi Suzuki she's an 18 year old smart wonderful
01:37:24
Japanese exchange student attending college in Adelaide in 2001. She's going to be a counselor for internet.
01:37:30
She's a good fucking person. And on August 3rd, she leaves class and she's waiting at a bus stop
01:37:38
and Rust fucking spots her. And he grabs her, tries to rape her, and he couldn't get an erection,
01:37:45
which you know pisses people like this off, right? Pisses me. I feel like that's across the board.
01:37:54
Tell us. Tell us everything. So he tries to strangle her, but he can't. And so he bashed her head with a fucking rock.
01:38:03
I know, baby angel. And then he wraps her body in sheets. And so he puts her in a rubbish bin, in a trash bin for everyone here nearby.
01:38:14
And she's reported missing. Her parents were like so sweet, fly from Japan to look for her.
01:38:19
Her purse is found like shortly after, but her body's not fine. and her like poor boyfriend is like suspected
01:38:25
of the whole thing and is like freaking out. They search for her and at that point on August 16th
01:38:31
he cuts the power to an office building and he goes in. There's one female alone in the office building.
01:38:39
Holy fuck. I know. He went full fucking Halloween. Yeah, don't work late. It's the fucking secret. Wow.
01:38:47
I don't like this at all. No, she's not dead though. Okay, okay, okay. she's it's his last victim she's raped uh he he he like he like fucking overcame her and at one
01:39:02
point he hands her the knife that he has to hold while he like does his unbuttoned because he was
01:39:07
getting he was he was like can you hold this while i take off my shirt yes she was like okay
01:39:13
the only reason she's alive is because she was like she went along with it she didn't look at
01:39:17
She didn't stab him with it? No. I know. It's bananas. Do you fight for your life and do anything you can?
01:39:26
Or do you go along with it? She made the right choice. But who knows what that would have been.
01:39:32
It's so fucking insane to me. I can't. He didn't harm her. And I do. And I have insomnia.
01:39:44
So this is how he gets caught. is like... So that crime happens and then he leaves her and just leaves?
01:39:50
Goes. Doesn't kill her. She's alive. And then on the news that they like they keep playing his recording of his voice over and over again and showing the note to see the handwriting Rusk brother fucking hears it and sees it
01:40:08
From the handwriting? Yeah. He hears the voice and he's like, I listened to it like 10 times.
01:40:16
I went in the other room and played it. He just was freaking out about it. It's Rusky, mate.
01:40:22
That's what he said. Yeah, but he knew his brother had maybe molested. is dead water. But also, I have a cousin.
01:40:29
Yeah. And if I heard this story, I'd be like, yeah. Like there are people in your family who are like,
01:40:38
okay, I got my eye on you. But the secret is it's never who you think it is, which makes me suspect everyone who I don't think it is.
01:40:47
But this guy is that guy who talks in the monotone voice and that weirdness. I literally have a cousin like this
01:40:54
and I'm like, okay. I wouldn't be surprised if they were like, 40 bodies. Come on.
01:41:02
And his brother is interviewed in one of these ID shows and he's like a normal sweet dude and he's like, I was out of town
01:41:08
for a long time and then I came back and the news was playing this shit and I was like, oh,
01:41:12
fuck. He knows it's his brother. And then he sees the writing sample. He goes to the police
01:41:18
and brings a letter that his brother had written him and they match it up. But this is only for the
01:41:24
first murder. But fucking good for him because most... No, but most people in a family would be like, it's not
01:41:32
him and convince themselves it's not him. Would you turn your family member in if you thought it was them?
01:41:38
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Fuck yeah. A fucking murderer? Yeah, I don't. You would. Yes, I would.
01:41:46
I would. Like Laura. I'll take this question. Yes, I absolutely would. Well, because here's the thing.
01:41:57
It's like what you're saying. I think everybody at least knows a person or has a relative or whatever where you're just like, it's just like there's something going on.
01:42:05
So it's not like you'd be calling in all the time or whatever. But if there was something where it's like undeniable evidence A and undeniable evidence B and terrible result, you have to get those people off the street.
01:42:17
And even if you do it and you turn them in and it's not them and it's fine, it's like at least you tried something.
01:42:22
Yeah, I mean, Christmas is weird. It's so hard. There's a lot to talk about, you know.
01:42:29
I got you a really big gift. Freedom. Exoneration. All right, so he goes to, they figure out it's him.
01:42:38
They fucking arrest him. And while he's in prison, he confesses to a cellmate about Megumi's murder
01:42:47
because he can't fucking, he needs to tell someone about it. also he had her this is the second woman because he's convicted on the first
01:42:54
one because of her of the calls the second woman they didn't even know it was connected
01:43:00
and he has her CD player in his cell in his cell? what? I mean I'm gonna what? supposedly they let CD players
01:43:16
into fucking prisoner cells but now I'm like, it's a good idea. Because he brought her
01:43:23
possessions into his cell. And her parents were like, here's the receipt with the fucking
01:43:29
number on it. And they were able to match it up. Yeah. That's some good... Somebody did some good work there. Seriously.
01:43:37
So he had put her in a rubbish bin and then they tracked the rubbish bin down. They figured out when
01:43:45
that bin had gone to the dump. They the cops fucking went through like bail by bail
01:43:52
until they found the area where she had been in the dump. So let see 11 days after they started searching after 10 tons but it T so I don know if it the same thing as tons How many is that
01:44:09
I mean, if I, I was just in Australia, but if I know correctly, that's about eight teaspoons.
01:44:17
After all of that, under all that rubbish, they fucking find her. That's pretty fucking amazing.
01:44:25
It's amazing. not to disparage American cops but I also think there's a financial aspect where they just go
01:44:31
alright go ahead and not look in the garbage lost cause totally they find her, all of this stuff
01:44:41
and he when they asked her why he killed her he says because I did piece of shit
01:44:49
clearly he's sentenced to two concurrent life sentences without parole, he pled guilty
01:44:55
to the murders of both the women, Maya Jackick and Megumi Suzuki. He filed an application seeking
01:45:02
the imposition of a non-parole period for killing them, but everyone's like, everyone in Australia is like,
01:45:11
fuck you, that's never going to happen. So he's in prison forever. Fuck him. Fuck him.
01:45:25
So when you did your last Australia story, did someone go, you got to know about this Australian guy?
01:45:32
No. They didn't? No. I just, I have insomnia and I search murders constantly. Maybe that's why you have insomnia.
01:45:40
Oh, I'm sure it's not. Wait, what? I never thought about that. Have you seen all the datelines?
01:45:47
All of them. Are you in love with Keith Morrison? Oh my God. Keith leans on things.
01:45:55
Do you know this? He really loves to lean. There's an Instagram called Keith Leans on Things
01:46:01
and it's just Keith Morris leaning on things. That's so badass. Like screen grabs.
01:46:07
And then he came to the woman's house who made that Instagram and they lean on each other.
01:46:13
She's my hero. My hero. That's pretty great. I don't know how we're doing on time.
01:46:19
I think we're getting the... Oh, that light means... I feel super dirty. I know, I know, I know.
01:46:26
Apologize again to all of us. In the last dollop we put up, there were approximately a million penguins turned into oil.
01:46:34
What's this? Yeah, it's a story I did. Oh, okay. And it took me two days to get over that.
01:46:40
It might take me longer to get over this. Yeah. We exonerate you. Don't you feel good right now?
01:46:48
No. Like you're doing good. You know what's funny is years ago, was talking to Karen about comedy
01:46:55
and she was like... She was like... He just did a joke about child murder and I just don't think it's funny and I don't think
01:47:05
people should talk about it. No, not our Karen. People change, obviously. This one?
01:47:10
This is a lie. There's no way I said that ever. Who was it? Ray James? Yeah. I was not mad about the child murder.
01:47:24
This is not the Karen I know. I was using that topic as an excuse to hate a person.
01:47:31
It's what we do. It's what we do. I don't do it anymore. Can I say thank you for coming to the podcast festival
01:47:39
and supporting this podcast? Thank you. Because we... We booked these guys really early on
01:47:48
when they started popping up I was like, I feel like something's happening here.
01:47:53
And sure enough, a lot of people are fucking crazy. And now we want a lot of money.
01:47:58
My wife is a total murderer I know We talked about it She all about the murders I love it It makes me so happy I know Thank you guys so much for fucking
01:48:11
Right? You guys are... Thank you so much. This is our first live show. This is so fucking exciting.
01:48:17
It was really awesome. Of many, of many. I hope so. This is so great. Thank you, Dave Anthony,
01:48:23
for being a great first guest. A perfect first guest. Yeah. And I guess now we tell you to stay sexy.
01:48:30
And don't get murdered. But I have Elvis on the... Wait, hold on. Here we go. Here we go.
01:48:37
Wait, do it again. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. This is what she tried to play for Gareth backstage.
01:48:49
Bye! It didn't work. Okay, we're back. Any case updates on the third story of the first live show?
01:49:09
If you're still awake and with us, thank you. There's no updates on the case. Mark Aaron Rust remains incarcerated in Australia,
01:49:16
serving a life sentence without the possibility of parole for the murders of Maya Jake and Megumi Suzuki.
01:49:23
Well, so that's just, he's still alive too. Yeah, that's so weird. And also this, because our naming structure that we just named the live shows live from wherever to take a little work off our plate.
01:49:35
Yeah. There's really no need to rename this. It's like if we renamed it anything, it would be like our first live podcast.
01:49:42
Look at us go. Do you remember, though? And this is how well I remember it. We went to Norm's after on La Cienega.
01:49:48
Did we really? We all went to Norm's. You, me, and Vince, and probably Steven went to Norm's.
01:49:54
Nice. Nice. And did you get a steak for $6.99? With an onion ring on it? Yes. I love it.
01:50:02
Nice one. That's definitely a place to visit if you come to LA. Go to Norm's. I love that.
01:50:06
All right. Well, thanks, you guys, for listening for three hours to that episode.
01:50:11
Yeah. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:50:25
How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.
01:50:29
No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast, The Matchup with Aaliyah,
01:50:34
I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests. On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ,
01:50:39
Clarissa Shields, and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie, Undercard,
01:50:43
the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search The Matchup with Aaliyah, and listen now.
01:50:50
Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro,
01:50:59
I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
01:51:04
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
01:51:12
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
01:51:17
I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
01:51:23
The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
01:51:30
Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:51:36
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security.
01:51:46
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
01:51:53
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
01:52:01
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.