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This is Exactly Right. of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
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Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events
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that really ever happened in New York City politics. I screamed, get down, get down.
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Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten. And a mystery. that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
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Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro, I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues
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happening in your community and around the world. Because I know deep down inside right now,
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we are all cursing and asking, what the bleep is going on? Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
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I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
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The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
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Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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My favorite murder that's going to be living right here in our little universe of exactly right media.
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It's called The Knife and it premieres on March 27th. We're so excited to have Pasha Eaton and Hannah Smith here with us from The Knife podcast.
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Yes. This has been so thrilling, so exciting. We finally got to tell everyone. And now you're here on the network.
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Welcome. It's the best feeling. We're so excited. So excited. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. When you guys came with this idea, we were it was like a hard yes.
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Immediately. Of course. What made you guys come up with what was your because you came off the opportunist.
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You still wanted to do true crime, but this is like kind of heavier, darker stuff.
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Like what made you want to get into that that world a little more? Yeah. So, you know, we had a lot of time doing the opportunist to sort of think about what it is that we like about the stories that we're telling.
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And we spent a lot of time focusing on these bigger season stories where we're interviewing eight to 10 people, which is, you know, fantastic and, you know, and a great way to tell stories.
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But Peisha and I would talk a lot about an interview that we did with like one victim of a crime that would stick with us.
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And we would end up having to cut so much of that in order to serve this bigger story.
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And we would talk about like, but this could be a story in and of itself. This could be an episode. And so when we decided to do a show together, we thought about that and wanted to do like more personal, intimate and more in-depth stories with people whose lives have been impacted by a crime.
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And so that we can hear the whole story from the incident all the way through the aftermath and just really sit with those stories and give them time and space.
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Yeah. Yeah. It became really apparent that when someone was the victim of a crime, that crime was then like, what's the word, reverberating throughout their life. Even when we would talk to people where something happened 10, 20 years before, it was like still just so recent for them in a way.
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And that felt really powerful to us. And also just the freedom to tell stories that weren't in such a specific lens, like on our last show, which was really cool, but also left us with like we'd send each other articles and it's like, oh, it doesn't fit the show. And we didn't want to be bound by that anymore. And we just thought, I wonder if Karen and Georgia would hear this pitch.
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Yes. And we were like, hell yes. Hell yes. Hannah, when you were on My Favorite Murder, I think it was like three years ago or wasn't that COVID?
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Oh, my God. That was a long time ago. A blur. 25 years ago. That was one of our most popular episodes.
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Of course, I have listened to every episode of The Opportunist, which I know you also produced and worked on, too.
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So, yeah, I mean, you guys, the second Danielle was like, oh, Hannah Smith and Pasha Eaton have a pitch.
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We're just like, the answer is yes. If they have a podcast about popcorn, the answer is yes.
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Well, that was our next pitch. We're so happy to hear that. Yay. Yeah. That's the sequel.
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Yeah, exactly. We're going hard for kettle corn. Yeah. Very controversial. Did you guys meet on The Opportunist?
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Is that where you first started working together? We did. Yeah. We met on The Opportunist.
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I emailed the CEO of the company that oversaw the opportunist owned that show and I was like I want to work in podcasting but I never done it before Like would you can I interview on
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something? And I ended up getting an associate producer interview on the show. Didn't get it.
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Yeah, that's right. I was like, no way. I did not make that decision. Persistence is everything. And yeah, from then on, I, so I joined the opportunist in
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April of 2021. Yeah. Yeah. And so I did the first season. So you came on season two. And,
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you know, I had been, that was like the biggest break of my career at that point. I'd been working
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in podcasting since 2017. And I had also been thinking a lot about like wanting a creative
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partner. You know, I worked, I'd been around people that had creative partnerships and really
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like, you know, envy that and hoped for that. And Pasha came to start working on the show.
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And even though it was like her first foray into podcasting, she'd worked in film and television a lot.
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She's, you know, a great writer and was doing this career transition, which is something that I had also done into podcasting a few years before.
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So it just as soon as we met, it was like, oh, we're both like on the same trajectory and we're fascinated by the same kind of stories.
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And it was just this instant sort of feeling of like, oh, yeah, we're going to be making things together.
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And so it's just so exciting that now we're doing that with our own show. It's real. I love that.
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It's the best thing ever. Yeah. When I first started working with Hannah, you know, I was just an associate producer and I was like, can I just start giving feedback on scripts?
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And so I was really comfortable with that working in scripted TV. And so I was just like, Hannah, here's an alt for all your narration.
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Just take it or leave it. And eventually it was like, OK, I like that. And from there, you know, the show was a success.
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And we were like, we want to make something else, but we don't have any time. And then all of a sudden we did.
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I love that you guys have this like perfect, this combination of the like podcast, like wanting to be in podcasting and then the pandemic kind of overlapping.
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And it's just this like really cool. I don't know, like this like drive that you both had that just you made it happen.
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You made it. And it's just so impressive. And like, it's so cool. It is. I was going to ask, you got rejected the first interview.
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Did you go back immediately? Like I would if I didn't get I remember interviewing at the warehouse when I was 17 and I didn't get the job and I'm still really upset about it.
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I, you know, I was like I wanted the job and I remember being disappointed, but I also still had a job at that point.
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I was working at a production company that was under a pod at Warner Brothers and I wasn't in like, OK, I need a job right now, which was helpful.
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But I also, you know, at that point was like, there are other podcast jobs. And so I started applying and I didn't get those either.
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It gave me hope because at that point, podcasting was like, you know, there was this boom that happened because especially with the pandemic, being able to make things remotely was everything.
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You can't do that in TV. Right. And so I just kept applying and actually someone from that company reached out and I interviewed again.
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and, you know, desperation. And I got the job. Yes. But you had experience by then
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because you did the really cool thing of just, and I think this is, we can totally relate to,
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of just like, well, then I'm going to do it on my own. Yeah. And you did that and, you know,
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prove your point that you're like, this is where you should be. Yeah, it was like this moment for me of,
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I had tried really hard to like, make it as a TV writer. And I had been in a couple of comedy rooms
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and that was so exciting. I was a writer assistant that I got my first credit and I'm in the WGA and then nothing, right?
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And that was just, you know, I wanted more control over being able to like get a job if I was working really hard and getting better at it.
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And so podcasting gave me that. So, yeah, I found a missing persons case. I spent all my extra time working on it.
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And I just kind of taught myself how to like not be offended when someone hangs up on you and ask the right questions and like find people's information online.
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You guys are so good at that. I'm so impressed. And it like makes me sweat listening to you guys talk about like cold calling people.
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Yeah. But you both do it in a way that is like so kind. You don't spring things on people.
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You don't have that everyday like predatory thing. We're not trying to like get people.
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We're not trying to like, gotcha. We got some information out of you. You know, we really want people to feel comfortable and open up to us.
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But it does mean you have to get a lot out in like 20 seconds before they're like,
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I think this might be a spam call and hang up on you. Yeah. My area code is like Maple Valley, Washington.
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And they're like, excuse me, who? You live in Los Angeles? Click. You think that helps that it's like Washington?
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You know, only if it's someone in Washington, but sometimes it is. Yeah, it's it's a I think it's just you have to get a little more comfortable with being hung up on people telling you not to call back and just accept that like that's their prerogative and it's part of it.
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But most of the time, people will hear you out whether or not they agree to interview.
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And that was something that was really exciting to me. I'm like, I get to just be nosy.
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This is unbelievable. I love this. But then when those interviews actually take place, in your first episode, in your interviewing
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Darune about her attack, there's this amazing part when I was listening to it for the first
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time where she is speaking for a while and getting people to really talk about these
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experiences is I'm sure a very delicate thing. She's talking and talking. And then you ask one
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quick question. I was like, she's there. Hannah is there. So you're it's like you're not directing
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it. You're not interrupting or anything. Like clearly you are leading that conversation in
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this way where you allowing people to kind of open up to you Is that how did you learn that skill I don know how I learned that skill I think like maybe I not sure I mean
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sometimes our interviews go for a very long time. And sometimes I'm like, well, maybe if I were a
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better interviewer, I could really accomplish this in one hour instead of two and a half.
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But I just think like listening to people, being able to like, you know, just create that space and
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let people talk about an experience that they've been through that sometimes is like very traumatic
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and hard for them to talk about. But one thing we've also encountered a lot is that, you know,
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especially like a lot of times when we interview people who had been scammed, they would say things like, wow, you know, people in my life knew that this happened to me,
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but like no one's really taken the time to sit down and just let me like tell the whole thing.
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and that feels good that we're able to let people do that or we'll hear their story as well as
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share it with the world and yeah I mean that's a meaningful thing to me so yeah yeah I don't know
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I mean before we do an interview we you know do a whatever amount of research makes sense for that
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story and have questions prepared and sometimes we ask two of these questions because they get
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answered on their own. But it's really like, what is something that we think is really interesting
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about this person's story or the way that they reacted to something that happened to them?
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And so those kinds of questions are always top of mind when we're listening. But I think it's
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also we tell them before the interview, like, we want this to be your story. We're going to help
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guide you through telling it. Because, you know, jumping around through time, oh, I remembered this
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thing that happened and we want to be there to help them but and make them feel comfortable but
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you know we try really hard to just keep it as authentic as possible yeah yeah you guys have some
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really it's a hard job your first episode with daroon is so i mean emotional it's this awful
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attack that she i mean fought back like a badass but experienced are like tell us more about the
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season and the episodes that you guys are going to be doing is it just kind of more of these
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incredible cases. Yeah. I mean, we have, you know, that's part of our drive for doing this kind of
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show is all manner of stories. And, you know, we have people like Daroon who, you know, they're on
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a morning run and something awful happens to them and they're fighting for their life. And then
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there's the aftermath of that. We have people who are in a domestic violence situation with a spouse
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and the complications of that because you own a home with someone, you have children with someone
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And how do you get out of that situation? Or how did this person get out of that situation? And then, you know, we love a scam story.
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Love a scam. Cult story. Cult stories. We have a wrongful conviction story coming up that is really powerful.
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Great. Identity theft. We're going to try to cover a lot of different types of crimes. Our really like unifying theme is the approach that we take to storytelling.
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and just hearing firsthand from someone whose life was altered because of a crime.
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It's cool. Amazing. If you were forced, and you might be, to do a different podcast of any genre.
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Popcorn aside. I mean, yeah, we've got the popcorn one on the decks. That's in development now.
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But have you ever thought of doing, just going completely out of the genre and doing anything different?
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Landerpump Rules, maybe. I mean, I could talk about anything Bravo, for sure. But no, I mean, we have just spent so much time over the last year and seven months working on true crime podcasts.
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It would feel so unusual. Yeah. Yeah. I could talk about anything. Bravo. That's what I could do.
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You could bring that to the table. I could do a Survivor podcast. I love Survivor.
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Yeah. It's a good show. So television, maybe even though we watch different television.
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Very different television. There's some slight overlap within true crime, really.
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Yeah. Yeah. But I've been trying to get Hilda to watch The Real Half-Swise, for example, to no avail.
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Hasn't happened yet. It just hasn't happened. It really hasn't happened. Fight the good fight.
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Yeah. Well, but the off-record episode is a little bit different. It is kind of, it is new for you guys, right?
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Something that is a little more like chatty and less fully produced, fully journalistic.
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Do you want to talk about that? For you guys listening, they have the episode, full episode of The Knife, and then the off-record episodes are kind of the,
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it's almost like the kind of like a mailbag or like a recap episode from the main episode like
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a more info yeah you know we've sort of like to think of them as it could be a lot of different
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things we love the idea of mailbag answering listener questions and being able to interact
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with people in that way we also you know we're going to talk a little bit about the conversations
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that Pasha and I have making true crime podcasts. Like we have so many conversations to do with,
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sometimes it's like cold calling people or ethical conversations about how we portray different stories.
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So we're gonna have some of those conversations like on mic so that listeners can be part of that.
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Great. And we'll also tell true crime stories. Yeah, true crime stories. Also an opportunity for us to tell stories
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where we didn't get the right interview, but like, wow, this is a fascinating story.
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And now I get to tell Hannah all about it. And maybe we've like had it on our list for a while, but no one had had time to do a deep dive until now.
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Yeah. You guys are like, I swear you feel like a parallel universe us, but you guys have a lot more homework.
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And you actually do your homework. You guys are like really smart. It's chronic at this point.
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We're like, OK, we need to make this one really quick and easy. And then eight hours later.
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Yeah. Yeah But I hoping like part of the off record is an attempt to get away from that to have like more conversations with each other without having to do tons of homework We see Well I do think the audience will be so fascinated because
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that is the piece that you never get from like a limited series or the series that are more
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journalistic and a little more formal and need to be. But I just love that idea that you guys kind
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of like, yep, we can do that and we can do this. And then you can tell us what you thought of that.
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and then we're going to do another one. It's like a really fun kind of like backstage feel.
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Yeah, it's fun for us to talk about it because we love the job so much and also just this like hybrid of journalism
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and storytelling and we're not investigators, but we are like making a podcast and I think that's, you know,
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maybe a lesser known skill set. Yeah, and you guys did it in such a cool way, as I said earlier, just the way you were,
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like I want to be in podcasts or like I know you guys were listening to Serial when it came out
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and it's like oh this is a thing we can do and I feel like we had the had the exact same thought of
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let's just start it let's do this and I think that's really like it's inspiring yeah totally
00:19:04
I think people are going to really love to hear about that your husband is not who you think he is
00:19:11
your body is not what you thought it was your identity is formed by a secret history I'm Dani
00:19:17
Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of
00:19:23
Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air, so much so that the bags that
00:19:31
were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle. Each week, we dive headfirst into the
00:19:36
complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately
00:19:42
can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:19:47
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:19:51
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:19:56
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.
00:20:01
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:08
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
00:20:14
Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events
00:20:19
that really ever happened in New York City politics. I screamed, get down, get down.
00:20:26
Those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery that may or may not have been political.
00:20:33
It may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:20:39
or wherever you get your podcasts. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms.
00:20:48
So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:20:53
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
00:20:58
This is a podcast. We're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
00:21:03
With all the snacks and drinks. Why? Did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
00:21:09
Well, then you got it. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:21:17
In your years of research and having to do those deep dives, and I know it's, you know, depending on the subject,
00:21:23
but is there anything you've ever uncovered, learned a factoid, like something crazy?
00:21:29
I just always picture you guys working at like late at night with one light and you're like, you know, on LexisNexis,
00:21:35
like trying to figure stuff out. Like, do you can you just like recap one moment where you had like
00:21:41
that kind of journalistic Nancy Drew discovery or anything? There have definitely been things said
00:21:49
on preliminary calls where we're just getting some background information where we're like,
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we have to level with them. We're not going to touch that, you know, like that's not going to
00:21:59
come up. And if you if it comes up in an interview, we're not going to it's not going to make the
00:22:03
episode, whether that's maybe, you know, something that we don't agree with value system wise or
00:22:10
accusations. You know, people have very different experiences within a crime story and will really
00:22:16
get fired up about it. And so, you know, figuring out how to make sure that person feels heard,
00:22:23
but also we want to do it right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, there's the research and then also
00:22:32
there's learning things from conversations with people just because like, you know, there's the
00:22:38
headline and then there's an article and then maybe there's a longer form article if you're
00:22:43
lucky. And then, you know, I'm like, okay, where's the documentary or where's the book or where,
00:22:49
you know, and then you hit like a stop where there's just nothing more. Like a Reddit thread, maybe.
00:22:54
Yeah. Maybe there's a Reddit thread. And, you know, I've, I think like, I've always just been
00:22:59
I'm like, what else? Like, I just have more questions. And so then through, you know, finding someone who was like, oh, yeah, that was, you know,
00:23:07
I, you know, yeah, I was there or whatever. And I knew that person. And then, oh, great.
00:23:10
Will you talk to me? And then, you know, having a two hour long conversation with that person, there's so
00:23:14
much that will come out. Like, I'm thinking about like season three of the opportunists we did with the cat cult.
00:23:21
and which I found that story by googling quote cult plus sign cat quote end quote and I'm like
00:23:30
I wonder what's out there just for kids oh it's so fun and this one little article came up and I
00:23:36
was like I don't know if I should pitch this to Hannah is this too much she's like I love it
00:23:41
so this is the exact kind of story I want to tell yeah yeah yeah and then when we had a conversation
00:23:48
with Mary, who is married to this man who used to be married to the cult leader.
00:23:53
During the interview, she revealed to us that there was an attempted murder involved with
00:23:59
the story. where she had befriended this guy years later who was her, you know, assassin, essentially,
00:24:06
that the cult leader had tried to convince him to kill her and her husband, and he didn't.
00:24:11
And then years later, they became friends. So that was a moment where this whole other aspect of the story opened up.
00:24:16
And we're like, wait a minute, what? Like, there's also, like, you know, a potential attempted murder here.
00:24:23
So there's, you know, that was a big moment. But there's a lot of moments that happen like that.
00:24:27
Yeah, that's amazing. How has it been like in your line of work? How is law enforcement communication going for you guys? It seems like that would be a tough one.
00:24:37
It is and it's not. It's like if there's a case where, you know, it's case closed, someone's been convicted, sentenced, usually there's law enforcement who will happily talk about it because it's maybe something they consider a career accomplishment.
00:24:54
and maybe it is. But if the case is still open, it can be a lot more difficult. And, you know,
00:25:01
when we do those interviews, they can still be very useful for information, but you're not going
00:25:06
to get someone to like reflect or give you anything beyond, you know, a very like by the book answer.
00:25:13
And that can be challenging. But I would say overall, pretty good. I do want to know more about the interviews you do with people involved in the case. The first
00:25:23
off record episode is so incredible about these missing teens. And you got friends to talk,
00:25:30
you got family to talk. I mean, that's like, and you went there in person too. It's like,
00:25:35
that just has to change everything. It did. It changed everything. You know, I went to the DA's
00:25:40
office and, you know, sat down with an investigator who had previously been a detective on the case
00:25:46
when he was earlier in his career. It was incredible. I got to, I fell in love with it
00:25:52
because I met so many people I would have never met. And, you know, I got immersed in this story
00:25:58
and really got to understand how current it all was for them still. You know, their friends had
00:26:06
gone missing, you know, 20 years earlier. And they're talking about these memories that are so
00:26:13
vivid for them and also unpacking it with me for really the first time for a lot of them,
00:26:19
because it was a small town and the same theories had circulated. And I just thought like, this is such a privilege
00:26:27
that these people are taking this complete stranger into their home. I had a little Olympus recording thing that I got for like 20 bucks.
00:26:37
And I'm, you know, they're just talking to me and they didn't care that I had no previous podcasting experience.
00:26:44
They only cared that someone wanted to hear their story. Yeah. And that really hit home and was like, I'm so motivated to do this now. And then, you know, I got I got my job on the opportunist, got much busier, wasn't really sure how to end the story. I was so new to it. And you recorded like multiple episodes and put them together. Yeah. I don't remember how many, but I'm one of the few people that have the privilege of listening to it. And it was really good. Amazing. But the case was still unsolved and you didn't have you weren't sure how to end it.
00:27:13
I wasn't sure how to end it. And I also felt conflicted about some of the tape because, you know, there were two missing teens, Jeremy Bechdel and Aaron Foster. And Jeremy's family was very open with me. Aaron's family was much less. And I started feeling conflicted about putting so much out there without their support. And that was something I was thinking a lot about.
00:27:35
I didn't have the confidence in my storytelling ability that I have after having done it now.
00:27:40
But it was just so interesting to like, I'm going to get case file access to a case file.
00:27:47
I'm going to get to go ask these people questions. And, you know, I didn't I didn't break news with the story, but I was able to sort of piece together enough to be like, I know that they left that party.
00:28:00
And I know that after that party, they went to Aaron's house. And I had only ever heard or read that they had left that party and never been seen again.
00:28:08
And that was enough for me to be like, sometimes it just takes like, not a professional, but like fresh eyes and energy into doing something.
00:28:17
And I didn't solve that case. They did. And they, with the help of this YouTube diver exploring the nug.
00:28:25
Spoiler. Spoiler. Spoiler. It was so amazing because I had built so many relationships in that town that when as they're literally pulling the car up from the river, people are calling me.
00:28:39
And I was like, oh, my gosh. And so then I felt this way of like, well, I now have all of these relationships with Jeremy's family members.
00:28:47
I need to call them. And like, did you inform them? One of them, I informed him because he had been calling me and we had been playing phone tag.
00:28:56
And then it felt strange And I just said I don have any details I just heard that Aaron car was found in the river and you need to call Sheriff Page That incredible Yeah it was you know I didn want to make those phone calls certainly
00:29:11
But when you're talking to people every day for a long time, they're wanting to talk about it with you.
00:29:18
And it was just a great experience. And also, I think with missing persons cases, for me, there's that hope.
00:29:25
and even though you know after 20 years I think hope dwindles but I really liked that aspect of it
00:29:32
and that was just it was exciting. It's so cool as a cold case junkie I really was just that story
00:29:39
was incredible. Well and also it's that's such a good point that like when something happens to
00:29:44
people a trauma like all of a sudden just your child is gone you're you know they're just there's
00:29:50
no explanation and people help you for a little while and then just nothing. The idea that you are
00:29:57
left to process that or just or not because you don't get any answers. It's not the same as like
00:30:03
there's a death in the family. It's just it's a total void. And like, you know, you describing it
00:30:09
that way, it's like it must be incredibly powerful to have someone come and say, I care about what
00:30:14
this is and I want to help in some way. I do. That is what I love about the true crime community
00:30:19
is like there are so many sincere, sincerely caring like professionals and non-professionals
00:30:27
that are like, what can I do? What could I look up online? Like, what could I research?
00:30:31
Yeah. And it also was very eye opening in the way of like, it's easy to say, oh, you know, why
00:30:37
didn't the why didn't local law enforcement do more? Obviously, they didn't run away to Florida.
00:30:43
They they left a paycheck behind, like all of these like, quote unquote, like obvious
00:30:47
things that had happened or not happened and blame. But when you talk to all of these different
00:30:53
people, it's like, you know, well, wait a minute, that office had one computer at the time. So that
00:30:59
means these notes are handwritten and then typed out. And how many notes are you taking if you're
00:31:02
writing something by hand? And what is this game of telephone really look like, even if you're
00:31:08
trying your best? What was the training at the time? It wasn't. So then it was like, okay, I have
00:31:13
to take a step back because it's not one person's fault. It wasn't like there were a lot of things
00:31:19
that should have gone differently and didn't. But it made me take a step back and think about
00:31:25
how little you really get from reading an article. And I just wanted to know more.
00:31:30
Do you have a story like that of something that's happened where you're just getting involved,
00:31:34
kind of turned things a little bit? That's like that maybe journalistic satisfaction that you get
00:31:40
to have sometimes. I don't know if I have a story quite like that where that where it gets solved
00:31:46
a missing person's case. I mean, that's pretty incredible. Yeah. Certainly, like, you know,
00:31:50
we've talked to people that have reached out to Hannah from just knowing her from the opportunist
00:31:57
and said, well, what about my story? Can you look into this? And, you know, I think that is
00:32:02
a cool place to be. Like someone thinks that I care enough to look into this and like actually
00:32:08
do some research. And I think that that's also a really like great thing about being able to
00:32:14
connect with listeners. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, like, you know, I've never, yeah, I've never
00:32:22
solved a case or anything like that. That's season two. Yeah, that's coming. But, you know, just being
00:32:29
able to bring it to like people's attention to continue to keep attention on these things, as we
00:32:35
were just talking about, I think means a lot. And you never know what that can do. It's like,
00:32:41
you know, Pesha didn't solve this case, but the fact that there was so much attention on it,
00:32:46
I don't know, it keeps it fresh in people's minds and you just never know like what that could lead
00:32:50
to. So that's what I usually tell people when they're like, I have this, you know, case and
00:32:55
well, I'm not able to solve it. I'm not an investigator, but we can certainly tell that
00:33:00
story. And then hopefully that will help you connect to other people or resources to, you know,
00:33:06
hopefully make some leeway there. Yeah. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:33:15
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of
00:33:21
the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air,
00:33:30
so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:33:35
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:33:42
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:33:49
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:33:52
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:33:58
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:34:03
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts I Anna Navarro and on my new podcast Bleep with Anna Navarro
00:34:15
I'm talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world.
00:34:20
Because I know deep down inside right now, we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on.
00:34:27
Every week, I'm breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and around the world.
00:34:32
I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018.
00:34:38
The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations, failed these victims.
00:34:45
Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:34:52
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security.
00:35:01
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
00:35:09
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
00:35:17
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You guys have that thing that I think that people who are into true crime,
00:35:28
like we are murderinos, which is this like curiosity about the way humans work and the way
00:35:36
these decisions people make affects like everyone's life around them. And you can hear that in the
00:35:42
podcast, this curiosity that you guys have that's so, so pure. And I totally identify with it.
00:35:49
Totally. I mean, I think that so many people who love true crime feel that way, right? And
00:35:53
And it makes me think of actually this episode of a podcast that you sent me years ago.
00:36:00
It's a criminal episode. We know you all love criminal as well. Yeah, so good. And she was interviewing Errol Morris.
00:36:08
You know, he was talking about crime stories and always just stuck with me. He talked about like the heart of crime stories is just humanity.
00:36:17
You know, it's and I just I just agree with that so wholeheartedly. You know, in all of these stories, of course, there is some incident, some dramatic incident. Right. But like within that, there are stories of people surviving or people seeking justice and the complications of what that looks like. What does that even mean?
00:36:38
and how people hurt each other and how people try to heal and what that does to an individual person and to a community.
00:36:46
I mean, it is just humanity. It's like how we all live together. And that is just endlessly compelling.
00:36:53
Yeah. It makes me think of the episode and The Opportunist. And look, The Opportunist was great. Congratulations. Your new podcast is amazing.
00:37:02
Thank you. But I just have the memory of you talking about the people who invested in the guys who were claiming that they were going to go find this sunken treasure boat.
00:37:15
And so it's that kind of story where it's like, this is not a murder. This is not one of those kind of stories.
00:37:21
It's a scam story that as it went, it just became more and more heartbreaking as I listened to it of like these people who it's like, it's easy to go like, oh, well, you made a mistake.
00:37:32
or that was a dumb investment. And it's like these guys went through and just methodically drained the bank accounts of retirees
00:37:40
and just destroyed these families. And that was just kind of like, well, too bad for you.
00:37:46
And I'm sure that there are people who, if they go through an experience like that,
00:37:51
being able to hear somebody else be able to say it and have the validity, be able to give it the gravitas it deserves
00:37:57
of like, this is horrible. It should not be happening. We should have systems set up
00:38:01
Or how do you, what are the next steps you take when someone doesn't just, you know, rip you off, but like you lose all your money.
00:38:09
And you never think it's going to be you. Like ever, you know, we've probably never interviewed someone and been like, oh, I could see how that happened to them.
00:38:17
It's like, no, that could be all of us. Like, yeah, no one is like, well, I kind of expected that to happen to me.
00:38:23
Right. Yeah. You never think it's going to be you. And I think there's also this like self-exploration that happens where you're like when you when that feeling creeps in like something's not right here.
00:38:37
This other part of you is in survival mode being like everything's fine. I'm sure it's OK.
00:38:42
It's all going to come together. And like those two voices are battling it out in your head until there's this point of no return.
00:38:50
And, you know, that's not someone being naive all the time. That's just like life.
00:38:56
You have to trust people sometimes. And you know maybe a gold bar at the bottom of the ocean sounds far fetched but it not like this random person knocked on someone door and said I know where to find you know a sunken treasure boat It like this is a trusted person in the community supported by another trusted person in the community And that goes a long way for people
00:39:19
Which makes it all the more evil. Yeah. That was a tough one. That was tough. Yeah.
00:39:23
It's very satisfying that we get to host a podcast where there's the potential where obviously there's the relation of there's a crime
00:39:32
and then somebody gets to tell their story, be a survivor, or be, you know, get their voice out there.
00:39:38
But then that someone listening at home who might not have any of that support or any
00:39:43
of that kind of platform gets to relate or have somewhere to go or a next steps kind
00:39:49
of plan. Yeah. And just feel seen like, wow, a version of that happened to me and and here's someone
00:39:55
talking about it in a way that's not pejorative or demeaning. It's just like that could be like I'm not, you know, the only person this has ever happened
00:40:04
to something's not wrong with me. Someone did something wrong to me. And, you know, that like
00:40:10
goes back to even, even when I was, you know, researching that case in Tennessee, it's like this,
00:40:15
this idea that someone feels heard becomes really important in the work that we're doing and is,
00:40:22
I think, something we don't want to lose in our storytelling. Yeah, I think that's impossible for you guys to lose. I think that's just
00:40:29
stuck in nature for you. It's so cool. It's definitely like the most fun I've ever had.
00:40:35
It's great. It's exactly what I want to be doing. Yay! I love it. It's so exciting.
00:40:40
It's so, I feel like people are going to really, really love this podcast. I just,
00:40:44
we've, everyone that works here has listened to it. It's just like, it's a hit. It's a fucking hit.
00:40:49
It's just so great. Yeah. Great job, you guys. We're so excited to be here. And, you know,
00:40:52
you all have supported us so much too, you know, shouting out the show back, you know,
00:40:57
when we were doing it and always being like, just cheering us on. And that we always saw that always meant a lot to us. And so,
00:41:05
you know, it just feels like a really great place for us to be. It just feels right. And so we're
00:41:09
really, we're happy to be here. Does it feel exactly right? It feels exactly right.
00:41:16
Okay, then you should just sign your life away right here. Yeah, exactly. Yay. Honestly, and I mean, like, you know, this is business, but also we adore you guys. We love
00:41:27
the work you do. We're so proud of the show that you've made and the fact that we get to put it on
00:41:32
our network. So thank you so much for being here. Thank you. Yeah. Thank you so much. Yeah, that's
00:41:37
it's the best feeling. Yeah. So the knife launches on March 27th and new episodes are up every
00:41:43
Thursday. Please listen. And don't forget to go and follow, rate, review, subscribe, support, show
00:41:50
up. And on Instagram and Blue Sky, you can find them at The Knife Podcast. Thanks, you guys.
00:41:56
Thank you guys so much. Thank you so much for having us. We're so excited. Yay. Okay.
00:42:01
Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This has been an Exactly Right production.
00:42:13
Our senior producer is Alejandra Keck. Our managing producer is Hannah Kyle Creighton.
00:42:18
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalache. Our researchers are Maren McClashen and Allie Elkin.
00:42:25
Email your hometowns to MyFavoriteMurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram and Facebook at MyFavoriteMurder.
00:42:32
Goodbye! Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:42:43
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:42:54
He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off.
00:43:00
And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app,
00:43:05
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You think you're in control until you realize you're not.
00:43:13
As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air, many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft.
00:43:21
I thought we were going to die then. The Knife is a podcast about the moment ordinary lives take an unexpected turn
00:43:27
Real people, real stories and the split second that changes everything New episodes drop every Thursday
00:43:35
on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network Listen to The Knife on the iHeart Radio app
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Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts If you live in LA you already spend about 89% of your life in a car
00:43:47
So we turned it into a podcast On Do You Need a Ride? we pick up our comedian friends, drive around Los Angeles,
00:43:54
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00:43:59
it's a bicyclist going out of his way to get in the way of traffic. All you did was roll your window down.
00:44:05
He almost hit that. It's like a talk show, but going 30 miles an hour. New episodes every Monday on the Exactly Right Network.
00:44:11
Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.