Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 38: Sidebar Nation | My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark

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Hello. And welcome. To Rewind with Karen and Georgia. To Rewind. Shit. It's Wednesday, and that means we're recapping one of our old episodes with all new commentary, with case updates, perhaps some vision on our past, and some lessons for the future.

00:02:17

Hey, today we're rewinding to episode 38, which we named Sidebar Nation. So please listen now as we take you back to October 13th, 2016.

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You remember you went as Harley Quinn for Halloween that year. Oh, my God. You looked great.

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Oh, that's so cute and scary. So scary. Let's listen to the intro of episode 38.

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Hey, Stephen, do you want to turn off that thing? I just realized it was loud. Thank you.

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Oh, my God. Shit's breaking down. We're keeping this in, right? Oh, dear. She just turned it higher.

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There goes Mimi. You lost your fucking mind. All right. All right, everybody. Here we go.

00:02:56

welcome to my favorite murder episode 38 i feel like hurricane episode hi hi we have steven back steven was gone last week steven welcome back thank you thanks for

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watching my cats while i was out of town they kept me busy but i love them yes save it for the

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cat podcast forecast everyone um i have a story to tell about being out of town speaking of oh

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this is my favorite murder by the way did we say that part i don't know you're karen i'm georgia

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that's right that's right and we're back in our normal seats yeah which to me makes all the

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difference you came in tonight and like sat in my seat and then i was like are we gonna we're not

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doing this right it's like no yeah no absolutely not so wait georgia went to san francisco for

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was it for unique suites no it's just for like a real life normal trip oh yeah oh my god how was

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You're going to cry for me. Yes, I'm so jealous. I'm going to leave this goddamn town so bad.

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Oh, it was nice. Can I tell you honestly? Yes. I like staying home. You do? A lot.

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Like as a staycation as opposed to going somewhere for vacation? I'm not. Yeah, I like being home.

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I hear you. You know, I like that excuse to like eat and drink whatever I want when I'm out of town.

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But like, I also like hanging out at home. Did you guys drive or fly? We flew. I feel like at this point in my life, I've gotten to this place where I'm not going to fly to San

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Francisco. I'm not going to fly to Vegas. I'm going to valet park most of the time.

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Wait, you mean drive, right? You were saying fly. Fuck, yes. That's what I mean.

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You're going to do the most convenient thing because you're an adult and you can't.

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I am an adult. That to me was when I realized that I can now afford valet parking. I could

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afford it for a long time, but I was like, fuck you. I'm not paying to pay you to eat at your

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place. But that's not it. It's you're paying for the convenience of pulling up and walking away

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from your car. Yeah. And not being in a dangerous neighborhood walking down the street. Right.

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Anyways. Yeah. San Francisco. And then I'm walking down hate street. That great street.

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That great street hate with Vince during the day. We're like doing touristy things. And I hear

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someone scream at me from a moving car. And I go to Vince. What was that? And he said,

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She said, my favorite murder. What? Yes. As she drove by. My favorite murder. Who was that?

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I know, I know. I lost my mind. And I went, ah! I like waved my hands in the, like, I went, ah!

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I totally, like, lost my mind. That's awesome. I know. I didn't play it cool when I wasn't being cool because it was, like, the coolest thing.

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Cools for fools. Who cares? Yeah, it was exciting. Oh, my God. I'm smiling so much.

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First of all, I used to live... Were you in the upper hate where all the shops are?

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We were in the upper hate, yeah. Yeah. That's my old neighborhood from when I used to live there before the dot-com boom when

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you could live in the upper hate as a young poor person It so dangerous there Or it was It wasn bad Well you know what though Back then I craved danger Yeah I get it I lived in Koreatown for a little while You know

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So it's like even more touching. I just love that. But I think also that's... I love that someone recognized

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you from like... It must have... It had to have been a block away. Yeah. Well, they were driving by. And it's like, okay,

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I mean, Vince is like a tall dude with like blonde-shaped head and like always wears a flannel and I'm like

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a short, you know, like, and I had been posting on my Instagram that I was in town.

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Oh, okay. So the person like probably was like knew that I was there. Was a follower.

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There's this person, but it still was like, and I didn't get it at first. And then I was like, what did you say?

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What did you say? She said, fuck, I'm a murderer. Ah! They're like, get out of town, narc.

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Oh, wait. Yeah. I was like, fuck you. I was about to yell, fuck you. And then I realized it was a good thing.

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You go kick their bumper. Georgia, wait. I love that. I went to see Jimmy Pardo and Matt Belknap have, of course, the very famous podcast, Never Not Funny.

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And our friend April Richardson was on it the other night. So I went with her because we're two old crones that go everywhere together.

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And because she was the guest. It was over at Flappers. And during the show, Jimmy referenced me and did it in his very Jimmy Pardo way of going,

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oh sure start a podcast and then you're number one we've been here for 10 years whatever which

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is the highest compliment from a comedian like putting you down by complimenting you by putting

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you down exactly that's the only way they can do it it's very hard for us as stand-up comedians to

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really express ourselves but it was a lovely shout out really is what it was and afterwards

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when we went to leave two different girls came up and were like i'm a murderino it's the funniest

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thing when people say it that way too. Like I'm a murder, it's me, I'm a murderino. Just like,

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hi. It was really fun. There's another girl who mess it, who like put in a message on my

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Instagram photo and was like, I saw you on the BART train in San Francisco and I recognized you.

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And I looked at her photo and I was like, oh my God, I was, she's like, I was too scared to say

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anything. And I was like, I was staring at you because your hair was so cute. Why? What was her

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hair like? Her hair was like a pixie cut. And I was looking at her being like, fuck, I wish I could

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pull that off. That girl pulls it off really well. What pixie, like a boy, a boy cut? Like,

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like Tinkerbell. Yeah. Tinkerbell has a bun. Oh shit. I'm thinking Tinkerbell from, um,

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Hook. Oh, Julia Roberts. Julia Roberts in a wig. I've always wanted that hair too.

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Well, like Julia Roberts in a wig, she looked adorable. She was rocking boy hair. Yeah. You

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You have to be so pretty to be able to pull off that hair. Yeah. I was like, fuck shit.

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And I've done that hair and been like, oh my God, what did I do? Dude, in high school, I did the ghost haircut.

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What's the ghost haircut? It's a bowl cut. It's like a, it's a big round Demi Moore and ghost bowl cut.

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Did you go in and be like, give me the ghost? I think it may have been before ghost, no brag.

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And I know that I had also sunned my hair. So I basically had orange hair in a bowl cut.

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I looked like I had, it was kind of like as if I was trying to look like a Japanese rock star

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is what I looked like, but not, but then everything else. Like a male Japanese rock star.

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It was like, basically, what are you doing is what I looked like. I mean, we have so many throwback Thursday photos that just horrify.

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We'll never see the live day. Horrify. No. Last week on the show I work on, it was my episode.

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And in the middle of it, the director of the episode, who is this super badass, Peter Atencio who directed Keanu

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the Keanu Peele movie and all of Keanu Peele he's done a ton of shit I think he did The Last Man on Earth

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he's done a bunch of stuff he's the shit right now he walks up to me and goes you know my friend Georgia

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and I was like what is happening and he directed your Nuggetini video he did that we were just friends with him

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and he was like hey I'll do this like for free as a friend did that in my grandma's kitchen

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and then from that we got a web series with Cooking Channel and he directed those too.

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No way. He was just like a buddy of ours. That's so awesome. And now he's like this huge guy.

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Now he's the shit and everybody on my episode, which was very involved and like...

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Should we plug the show early? I don't think we can. I mean, like, I don't... Yeah, no, no, no.

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I think we should wait until... I always think I'm going to get sued. I get it. I want to sue people and I want to get sued.

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But that was an awesome connection. And then... Love it. I told you this already, but I won't tell other people

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while I was leaving. It's that kind of thing where this is like a real TV show. I've worked on,

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obviously, I've worked on TV for a while, but this is like an exciting show that I really love and believe in

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and think is great. And it feels like other people that are working on it feel that way too,

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which is normally when you work with crew people and stuff, they're all like checking their watch

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and like, I need to get out of here. But everybody in this whole crew is so good.

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They're really good at what they do. It's amazing to watch. These are obviously kind of A-lister people

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in all these different departments. And when we went to leave, everyone was kind of thanking each other, saying goodbye or whatever.

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And it was like, you know, midnight on Friday. It sucked. So I went to leave. And then I, as I saw the prop master, so I went to say thank you to him.

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And as we were shaking hands, he was like, great to work with you. And then he goes, don't get murdered and walked away.

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You didn't tell me this. I didn't. No. I thought I called you. Oh, yeah. I didn't.

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No. Shit. Maybe it was my sister. That's where we've become. I'm kind of losing my mind right now.

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I'm so fucking tired. I'm so tired. I feel like I have 50,000 emails. I know. And I'm not doing it.

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I feel like I have 19 plates spinning. I'm dropping all of them. Everything's still, everything's working out.

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I know like the other day we were like both freaking out about like social media on this And it like oh it not it not going to implode if we don retweet someone Everything okay You getting you on your job

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and you're doing your big job. Yes. Everything else is still working out. We're okay, right?

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We're fine. Like we're good. This is like anxiety like at work. Yes. Well, it's just a lot.

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I mean, it's just, look, no complaints. That's the worst thing in the world to complain about.

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Yeah, I know. But it's nice. There's some fun things happening. I guess that the fun thing about that story is I'm sitting there going like,

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oh, everyone's so awesome or whatever. And then like when someone comes up. Yeah.

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It's such an intimate thing. Yeah. Like, oh my God, you listen? Do you think it's good?

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What if I just immediately I started asking him for compliments the second after he told me not to get married?

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You'd sound like me. Oh, we sold out the Chicago podcast festival show that we're doing.

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Chicago, Chicago, Chicago. I don't know how I can think. I don't know. 950 people.

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Is it? That's too many people. Yeah, we got it. Let's cut that in half. For sure.

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Okay, I'll call the guy tomorrow at work. You can put that wall up. Yeah, we'll hang the improv curtain.

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It's like only half the room sold out. We'll bring our own big, huge black curtain.

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But there'll be the rest of the people will be behind that curtain. We just don't have to deal with it.

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We can't see them. Your sister's coming. I'm trying to bring my mom. It's so exciting because my...

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these are the people that never paid attention to anything I did until I was about 27.

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And now you're a big deal. And all of a sudden, but I think Adrian and Audrey were the first who started.

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And these are basically our childhood friends from way back. Petaluma hardcore. What's up?

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And we have a text thread that's been going for like a year where we're just constantly sending each other terrible cat photos and whatever.

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Remind me to send you the rock and roll elf photo. GIF. Rock and roll elf? Okay, I will.

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Sorry, go on. Oh, someone at work mentioned the other day, do you know elf ended with him being taken away

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by the government? Is that the truth? Or was there someone fucking with me? We're getting a nod from Dustin.

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I mean, my God, sorry, Stephen. Is it true? Same thing. It's very true. You're young enough to have absorbed that.

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No, somebody talked about it recently. Will you briefly run it down? How is that?

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How did it end with that? I don't know. I just heard that that's how it ended I can't get over it

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so unless somebody's lying to me and you can I be honest that motherfucker ate cats

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so I don't give a shit what happened to him okay fuck off fuck off maybe it was cats dressed up in government clothes

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oh that took them away this is fan fiction that we have to write where were we oh your sister or your friends

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they're gonna oh so then in this text um they I one of them said you're gonna go to Chicago

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to do your podcast and I was like yeah oh they were mad that they didn't they weren't here for our first one.

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I didn't even invite my mom, even though it's down the street from her house. So now I'm like, I'm going to fly her to Chicago.

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You're going to do a little makeup work for Chicago. But anyway, they got excited.

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And then they're like, we could go. We can afford to go. We can fly out. And then they basically made the plans on the text thread.

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And I was just laying on my couch, like all bitchy and tired. And like, it was of course, 10 o'clock at night.

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And I was like, I don't want to take my mascara off. And then my sister and my old friends just start making this plan in front of me to come and be there for when we do Chicago.

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You're going to cry. It made me cry at the time. And then I was like, you guys, I'm crying.

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And they just didn't even pay attention. For such a hard ass, you cry so easily.

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I will cry. Well, especially these days. Like the other day I had a brief passing thought in the room.

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And then I had to pretend to sneeze so that you would understand why my eyes were the way they were.

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You're the most hard ass and then you just fucking lose it. That's how it always is.

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If someone's a real hard ass, they're the biggest softie. Right. That makes sense.

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We have to put our dukes way up because we're like a prickly pear with a gooey center.

00:15:58

Oh, that sounds... I'm hungry. You just bite into a prickly pear. Why is this gooey?

00:16:06

Okay. I have a thank you. We have several thank you. So at our live show in Los Angeles at the LA Podfest,

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we afterwards, like a bunch of people just like handed a shit and like didn't even want money for it.

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Handed and walked away and there's no cards. We don't know names. They didn't want anything for it, which is like bananas.

00:16:23

It's the way to do it, actually. I respect it. I agree. Like it's legit. Just add a card because some of it, we don't know who it's from.

00:16:30

Yeah, we do want to know your name. Okay. So this, someone just handed me this, like these,

00:16:35

this gift bag with two cat toys in it that Elvis and Mimi have fucking lost their shit over.

00:16:41

Elvis was laying on one of them like a pillow. Yeah. Just earlier. One's a goldfish and one's an elephant

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and they're filled with catnip and it's called Beko Family, B-E-C-O. And you can get them at, I think it's, oh dear,

00:16:59

B-E-C-O Pets, B-E-C-O Pet.com. And they're these like adorable and it looks like natural and like not bad for you cat toys.

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and they've held up, which usually when catnip toys are chewed on, they fall apart immediately

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and they've like fought each other over them. So thankfully they gave us two. But thank you.

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That's so awesome. They're so sweet. I'm going to post a photo of Elvis and Mimi

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fighting over them on their Instagram. And we got mugs from the coroner's office.

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I like to think the coroner brought them him or herself, but we don't really know.

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I feel like, I wish the person had given us a card. I feel like they probably bought those at the Museum of Death.

00:17:39

Oh, yeah. Do you know what I mean? They seem like something that you could buy at the Museum of Death.

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I just like it because in the morning, it's a nice tall mug. And then it's a skeleton with a Sherlock Holmes hat on.

00:17:50

And I think he's smoking a pipe. Mine was a chalk outline a body chalk outline with that on it They really good quality mugs So thank you whoever was the gift giver in that scenario You could probably bash someone over the head with it

00:18:05

and it wouldn't even break. There might... Wait, what? There might be a little knife in the bottom.

00:18:10

I don't know. I was trying to riff. Steven also showed me his tote bag, which is actually really cute.

00:18:17

Oh, I haven't seen it, Steven. Look at this thing. It's the original logo. And it's...

00:18:23

My favorite murder logo, tote bag. And it's like, it's good. It's like a book bag.

00:18:28

It reminds me of like my fourth grade book bag. Stephen, any comments, thoughts on it?

00:18:32

I mean, it holds the gear that records this podcast. Holy shit, Metta. Dude. It's in good hands.

00:18:37

This is holistic. Listen, go to the farmer's market with a shirt, with a tote bag that says, fuck politeness.

00:18:43

Yeah. And tell everyone to fuck off. And get some sailberries. What are sailberries?

00:18:49

Well, they'll give you a discount because they love our podcast. Oh, it's like on-sale berries.

00:18:53

Yeah. I thought there was a berry I didn't know about. Sail berries, you know, they taste like...

00:18:59

Say it. Sail it. I can't. Are you tired? I'm so tight, Ty. I'm a lady Karen drinking a diet ginger ale.

00:19:11

What's happening here? That's the other thing too. I haven't had anything I like to eat in six months.

00:19:16

You look amazing. Thank you. You look miserable, but amazing. I'm miserably amazing.

00:19:20

Thank you. it's just so much oh also we're in the LA oh whatever alright anyways let's move on

00:19:27

there's so much going on hey let's take a quick what oh I was just gonna say somebody was telling my friend Nick

00:19:35

who listens hi Nick Bernstein who listens to us and is a big fan and is a big podcast person in general kind of like

00:19:43

listens to all of them he was talking about I can't remember what he's talking about specifically

00:19:51

but then I was, I just mentioned the skippers and the people who actually message us to complain.

00:19:57

And I said, I basically said, there are some people who are just like, come on, get to the

00:20:02

murder. And he could not stop laughing at that sentence. He's like, that's your pull quote.

00:20:06

That has to be your pull quote. Get to the murder. And I was like, oh, you know what? You're right.

00:20:11

That's exactly right. Oh my God. Like this is the, you've said it before. This is the podcast.

00:20:15

This is the podcast. To quote Jimmy Pardo, listen or don't. And we're back. I still remember it was the first time I ever got yelled at, stay sexy.

00:20:30

Like out of a car? Yeah. In the Upper Hight? Yeah, I'll remember it forever, right in front of the McDonald's there.

00:20:34

It was so, I remember jumping up and down. It was so exciting. I think the first time anyone recognized me, I was getting my nails done.

00:20:44

I remember that, yeah. It was super quiet, and the girl walked up and she's like, I'm really sorry, I love this show, and ran away.

00:20:50

And I was like stuck getting my nails done. So I was like, bye. Oh, my God. So funny.

00:20:55

That was so fun. This is the beginning of that time, which was like the fucking best.

00:20:59

It was hilarious to us. And just like hearing us have that conversation where we're still just like, this is what's happening.

00:21:06

Can you believe it? Yeah. So can you believe 950 seats? That's actually a lot. I'm actually like, holy shit.

00:21:12

Like we do more now or we've done more in the past. But that is sizable for like what, our second show?

00:21:18

Yes. It's pretty fucking awesome. Yeah. It was really good. Well, we had the numbers and that's all that matters.

00:21:23

That's right. So if you could, please, just now that we've listened to that top of show.

00:21:28

Okay. Can you just give us the behind the scenes background on the Nugatini and really just like a little bit of like where it came from, where it got you, what that kind of like internet of virality felt like?

00:21:41

Just give us an example. Okay. Well, yeah. The McNugatini changed my life completely.

00:21:45

My friend Allie Ward and I created it in a bar because we were going out late every night and we wanted dinner, drink and dessert in one cup.

00:21:54

We were like, I don't want to stop for dinner. I want a drink. I need a drink. I want dessert.

00:21:59

And so we just and we loved McNuggets. And so we created this ridiculous drink. It's a martini glass.

00:22:04

You rim it in McDonald's barbecue sauce. Yes. You put vodka and chocolate shake together and pour it into the pour it into the cup.

00:22:14

and then you garnish it with a McNugget. And so you drink it. You have to get through the barbecue sauce.

00:22:19

You have to drink through the barbecue sauce rim. To a vodka milkshake. To a vodka milkshake.

00:22:23

And then when you're done, you swipe the McNugget around the rim. There's a McNuggetini video, highly recommend,

00:22:29

which was made by Peter Atencio. That's right. Who became your director later. The director of the episode of TV I did,

00:22:35

starring Tim Robinson. That's from last episode. That's from last episode. Yeah.

00:22:39

So that changed my life completely. It's so funny because I've heard you talk about it for a long time.

00:22:45

I've actually never watched the video. I didn't know it was chocolate shake. So I just was assuming it was a martini with a McNugget in it.

00:22:51

No, it's dinner, dessert, and a cocktail all in one. That's so much grosser than I ever imagined.

00:22:56

I know. And then Allie and I were on Messenger. I was at my boring desk job. And we both were like, hey, did you get a weird message on Facebook from someone claiming to work for Food Network?

00:23:06

And like, yeah. And like, it's got to be fake, right? Nope. It was someone being like, do you want to make more cocktail videos?

00:23:11

And my entire fucking life changed. You're like, did you stand up from that desk and walk out like without a word?

00:23:17

I left my computer. Kind of. I kind of bailed on that job pretty hard pretty soon.

00:23:22

Yeah, I would hope you would. My whole goal was like, OK, I'm going to try this and see if I can never have to work a desk job again.

00:23:28

And that's literally all I've been trying to do for the past 14 years is just working hard enough to not have to go back to a desk job.

00:23:35

Same. That minds the gap. I mean, the music's great, but I can't go back. Oh, I feel you.

00:23:41

Okay, let's get into our stories. Here's Karen covering the 1980 murder of Sister Margaret Ann Paul.

00:24:00

I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.

00:24:07

Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air, so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.

00:24:17

Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships, and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves.

00:24:27

my daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know but is trying to cook and feed me

00:24:32

and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything and me pretending like everything was fine.

00:24:37

He kind of shoved me out of the way and said move and he went out the front door and he jumped in a car

00:24:42

and drove off and that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets

00:24:47

on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. They take matters into their own hands.

00:25:01

I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.

00:25:07

We always say that. Trust your girlfriends. Listen to the girlfriends. Trust me, babe.

00:25:14

On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I got you, I got you.

00:25:23

In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.

00:25:31

You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once.

00:25:36

It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.

00:25:44

Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.

00:25:50

Laura, Scottsdale police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.

00:25:56

Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:26:05

And we're back. What if my eye fell out? I just had this weird nerve pain in my left eye.

00:26:15

I'm actually really bummed because one of my like murders on my future list is the eyeball killer.

00:26:20

Like, what if I did that tonight? And it just so happened. If that happened, that would be like, what was that Time Life book series where they're like,

00:26:29

a mother in Ohio has pain in her hand at the same time that her daughter gets stabbed in the hand.

00:26:35

I loved those. What was the one? Those were called? Mysteries of the Unknown or something like that.

00:26:41

That was definitely, that was one of them. it wasn't it was like there was that there was unsolved mysteries there was like the the like

00:26:48

new generation of um twilight zone yeah that was super scary and the movie also in the 80s yeah

00:26:55

they just basically wanted to scar us and scare the shit out of us and then they end up making

00:26:59

the coolest people that's right any generation because we're like we can fucking take it but

00:27:03

also i wish was it called mysteries of the unknown or it was called time life book series

00:27:09

Time Life Books presents, come on, we got this. The Paranormal or something? I bet you're right about Mr. Skinner.

00:27:17

And there was also like tombs that they would open in Egypt and they like contain things.

00:27:25

I fucking love Egypt tombs. Dude. I love you. So did you know that there's a, okay,

00:27:34

global warming is causing these glaciers to melt in the Alps. Yes. And do you know what they're finding underneath them?

00:27:41

What? They're finding the bodies of World War I soldiers that died in a crazy battle up at the top.

00:27:47

No. Yeah. That is, I love that. I know. Archaeology is like the best. But also what if that happens

00:27:59

and they start finding stuff that like they didn't know was there? That's why I thought you were going to go,

00:28:04

there's pyramids in the Alps. Oh, I thought you meant like those World War I soldiers had iPhones.

00:28:11

They all had... Oh, Stephen found it. No, not Mysteries of the Criminal Mind, Stephen.

00:28:18

No, Stephen. God damn it. It just seemed on brand. I was going to give your podcast a shout out,

00:28:22

but now you don't deserve it. The Perkast doesn't deserve it. You know what you can do to make up for this?

00:28:27

Buy me this book. What is it called? Mysteries of the Criminal Mind. Criminal Mind.

00:28:33

Merry Christmas. I think mine is Mysteries of the Unknown. I think I might be right.

00:28:36

It had like a... I think you're right. The picture was like a pyramid with lightning or something on the front.

00:28:43

And then I'll remember all those ones of like, you can see like in the dollar bill,

00:28:47

you can see someone's head and it's like a thing. I think it is Mysteries of the Unknown.

00:28:51

Mystic Places. Yes. Mystery of the Unknown. There's a whole series. Yes. That's it.

00:28:55

There it is. There it is. Well done. Look. And with that, Steven immediately wins us back over to his favor.

00:29:01

Listen to the purrcast. That's three R's. Purrcast. Purrcast. Stephen Ray Morris. I'm having the best time right now.

00:29:11

So are you, Stephen. Should we start in? Yeah, I think you're first. Is it murder time? And I'm also first because I could just keep

00:29:20

going like this, by the way. I know where we just never talk about murder. We just kind of go hysterical. Peripherally talk about murder, but not really.

00:29:28

But not really ever get to anything specific. This week, Time Life series presents.

00:29:34

A murder that I'm positive I must have found either through somebody who tweeted it at us

00:29:43

or somebody on the Facebook page. But it's really good because as being an ex-Catholic

00:29:50

or I guess a lapsed Catholic. I haven't turned my back on the church. The last couple experiences I had at the church in my hometown were great Oh because you went with your niece Yep My niece goes to Catholic school goes to the same school I went to And the church the way they do things is really different than the way it was done in the 80s obviously which is 100 years ago

00:30:13

You have to be mean enough to make you pay attention or love God or something. These days it's totally like,

00:30:22

we're all just here to support each other. I'm like, what are these words? They change the words.

00:30:27

There's a lot of hand-holding and shit. Oh my God. Stuff that was never even, it wasn't done when I was growing up.

00:30:34

Girl, today's a Jewish holiday and I didn't fucking do shit. What is it, Purim? It's Yom Kippur.

00:30:39

And I absolutely did nothing. Don't ask me the meaning of it. Okay. It's about atonement, I think, right?

00:30:45

Yes. I am a terrible. I'm the Jewishest non-Jew that's ever lived. That's really true.

00:30:53

You play good Jew. Thank y'all. But you don't do any of the like homework part. Nope.

00:30:59

I think it's enjoyable. And I also think it's what in Los Angeles, I would say it's like what 98% of people are doing.

00:31:06

Let's make this about me. I'm sorry. Keep going. Just get to the murder. Yeah. Okay.

00:31:09

I'm sorry. No, I'm not yelling. No, I know. You're right. You're right. Um, so, but I say all this because my, uh, my murder this week is about a priest named Gerald

00:31:21

Robinson. Now, normally I love a serial killer. I love a process killer. I love somebody who

00:31:29

maybe one of his eyes got poked out and he's upset. And, oh, there was a really good TED talk.

00:31:35

Somebody posted on the Facebook page, sorry, sidebar. There's a really good TED talk where a

00:31:40

guy talks about how people become like the mind of a serial killer. And he talks about violence,

00:31:48

experiencing violence at a young age and head trauma. Fuck yeah, he does. And that I love that.

00:31:55

So anyway, this episode is called Sidebar Nation. This is become a citizen of Sidebar Nation. Don't

00:32:01

fight us anymore. We know you like murder. Everybody does. Join the religion of Sidebar

00:32:06

nation. Because it's fun to have ADD. Well, hold hands and we'll talk about it. And there will be crying.

00:32:14

So normally, one-off murders do not interest me. Sure. There has to be insane extenuating circumstances for me to be

00:32:22

like, oh. Because I have that feeling like, well, that's just a thing that happens. Somebody loses their shit

00:32:28

and all of a sudden attacks another person. Or somebody pushes someone over and they hit. We're very fragile, delicate

00:32:34

people. Yeah. Like that happens. but this is like but you like the shit that's like planned right i like the the stuff that's

00:32:43

from a movie that's but actually happened in real life see i think i'm the opposite where i'm

00:32:47

fascinated by the like you you did these things without even realizing you were going to murder

00:32:52

someone or like you were going to this was going to happen this thing was building up inside you

00:32:56

that's no like it wasn't even building up it just this fucking snap decision you made

00:33:01

ended up in these circumstances and you murdered someone without even fucking under... If you could go back

00:33:08

and be like, I was murdering this person and I just wanted to show them how angry I was or I just

00:33:13

reacted in a way that I'm not... Because I'm not good at controlling my anger. I wouldn't have done them

00:33:20

but I did them. That's why I like one-offs. Okay. That makes sense. Well, then you, Georgia, this one

00:33:26

is dedicated to you. Thank y'all. This one's going out to Georgia tonight. Hey, Georgia, Karen just wants you to know.

00:33:33

I'm the lady from Coast. Local jokes get local work. All right. This is Priest Gerald Robinson.

00:33:41

So this is fucked. It's a one-off, but it's crazy fucked. It has all these elements to it where I'm like,

00:33:48

I couldn't find, let's be honest, Karen, didn't find. I'm sure that it's possible to find

00:33:56

all the super detailed parts. See Correction Corner next week. Many of you will.

00:34:01

This will go on and on. But I'll just give you what I know. So on April 5th, 1980, what a time.

00:34:12

Music, TV. We had all of them. There was so much great stuff happening in our culture.

00:34:19

But in Toledo, Ohio, at the Toledo Mercy Hospital, in the sacristy of the chapel, which is up where they keep the body of Christ, amen.

00:34:29

I believe. I think that's where... Like up near the altar. I think that's the sacristy.

00:34:36

Or maybe the sacristy is backstage. Happy Yom Kippur, everyone. They find... A fellow nun finds the body of Sister Margaret Ann Paul.

00:34:47

And she had been stabbed 31 times. Holy shit, that's a lot. She... Well, she had initially been attacked from behind.

00:34:56

She was hard of hearing. So her killer snuck up on her, took a piece of cloth, wrapped it around her neck

00:35:01

and choked her so hard that he broke two bones in her neck. Holy shit. Then she was placed on the floor while she was dying.

00:35:09

She was covered with an altar cloth and then she was stabbed nine times over the heart

00:35:14

in an inverted cross shape. That's right. And then the cloth was removed and she was stabbed in the chest, neck and face 22 more times.

00:35:26

What the fuck? Why take the cloth off? That doesn't make any sense. I mean, then the killer smudged blood on her forehead

00:35:36

as if he was anointing her with that blood, which is so creepy to me, the Catholic.

00:35:44

Then he pulled her dress above her chest. Not cool. Then he pulled her girdle and hose down.

00:35:49

Not cool. And pulled her legs apart. and they say he penetrated her with either the murder weapon or a finger I hate the murder weapon I hate that detail in murders

00:36:06

Yeah, that's hideous. Yeah. And it's also especially, in this case, the police were like, well, this was a person who intimately knew Catholic ritual and who was trying to degrade this woman in front of God and degrade the church.

00:36:23

Wow. If she had lived one more day, which was... If she had lived one more day, she would have been 72 years old.

00:36:34

And I believe the next day was... What I was thinking there just then is the next day was Easter.

00:36:40

So she was born on Easter. Oh, honey. So four days later, they have her funeral and Father Gerald Robinson

00:36:49

presides over the funeral. he was the chaplain of the hospital chapel and she was the caretaker of the

00:36:57

hospital chapel. I remember his name from when you introduced the story. Do you remember?

00:37:01

Maybe I shouldn't have done that and this would be more of a reveal. Look if I had days and days to do this

00:37:07

shit and I was unemployed and stuff oh the presentation I would give you Wait then you're making me feel bad because

00:37:13

I have days and days and I'm unemployed yet? I don't care We're both doing great

00:37:19

two weeks later Father Robinson is brought in for questioning because they put it together

00:37:26

that if it's somebody who knows Catholic ritual and it's somebody who's trying to

00:37:30

demean her they work together and she is known as a taskmaster it's so funny because these articles

00:37:38

are clearly from a while ago where they're just right up top they're talking about what a bitch she is

00:37:44

none is a fucking cunt what a bitch and it's like first of all, he murdered her.

00:37:51

So I think he's the bigger cunt. Sorry. The headline is, sorry. The I'm is tiny.

00:38:01

Is it like font 8 and everything else is font 32. Can we get that? ShezAmanda at ShezAmanda.com.

00:38:07

I mean, at Instagram. Yeah, so, but they talk about that she was a tough old bird.

00:38:15

and maybe that made him mad and maybe he couldn't handle that or didn't like it or took it for years and years and years.

00:38:23

But he tried so hard to take it. But he was a man of the Lord so I guess he just had to kill instead.

00:38:32

So he's brought in for questioning but he told the police in 1980 when he's brought in for questioning

00:38:38

that somebody else had confessed to the murder. But he didn't know who it was and he couldn't say anything else because of the bond.

00:38:45

That's smart. They gave him two polygraph tests, which were inconclusive. And then they let him go.

00:38:55

And within the year, he's transferred to a different area. How convenient. Well, 23 years later.

00:39:05

So this is the coldest of cold cases. Yeah. What year is that? It's a ritual murder of a nun in a chapel.

00:39:12

It wasn't just like a passionate murder. Like the fact that he did the upside down cross and then anointed the smudge.

00:39:20

Yes. Like that's evil. It's super evil. And what's weird to me is this, and this is the part where I do want to get into this more and learn more about it.

00:39:29

I bet you there's a book about this because this was during the time during satanic panic.

00:39:34

Oh, right. In the 80s went like the McMartin daycare thing where all of a sudden this weird thing,

00:39:41

and maybe this was before it. And so it didn't catch that. in the way that it would have other places.

00:39:46

But in the 80s, there's a fascinating... There's definitely books about it. Last podcast on the left did an episode about it

00:39:53

of satanic panic where all of a sudden people were being accused of ritual serial murder

00:40:01

of like occult groups and satanic groups and killing children and sacrificing children

00:40:07

and raping children and this whole thing. They legitimately believed in Satan that there were, you know, album,

00:40:13

like music albums that you could play backwards that were telling people to kill children.

00:40:18

And it was just like this insane thing. It was like a cultural phenomenon, much like the evil clown phenomenon

00:40:25

we're all experiencing now. Which I fucking think is hilarious. It's the greatest.

00:40:30

It's like, it makes me happy in my heart. And I don't think that they're actually

00:40:33

trying to hurt anyone. I think there's, I would say there's 97% of it is bored high school teenage boys

00:40:40

who find old Halloween costumes and they're like, now we have something to do tonight.

00:40:45

But there was that one story where there was someone that, there was a clown on the edge of a forest

00:40:49

trying to offer children candy. Yeah, but at what point is that built up by like terrified fucking,

00:40:56

you know, parents who were like, he tried to lure my kid. And the kid was like, yeah, I totally tried.

00:41:00

I just don't believe it, but that's even true. I would love to know. I think it's hilarious.

00:41:05

There's, I say at the center of all this, there's one evil clown and everybody else is just bandwagoning on his shit.

00:41:11

Yeah. And they're like, don't fuck our shit up, man. This is like good for us. But one of them is going to get shot

00:41:15

by some fucking angry soccer dad. Well, then it'll be over. Then it's going to ruin it for all the rest of us.

00:41:22

For all of us who want to laugh at this. Because it's hilarious. They were actually doing that in Kern County

00:41:27

like two years ago and people were taking video of it. Oh my God. And it was, it's because Kern County is up north of Los Angeles

00:41:34

and it's basically the forest. It's the bottom of the- Wilderness times. And it's the creep there.

00:41:40

People would drive by and there'd just be a guy with a clown, dressed as a clown, but like an evil clown holding balloons.

00:41:46

I love it. Just standing around by the road out in the forest area. I feel like if I saw that, I would crack up.

00:41:52

I would scream. I would laugh but I would laugh out of fear but in the way of like I wouldn be able to control myself You scream sneeze Which by the way people are pissed at us for talking about scream sneezers

00:42:06

Scream sneezers are pissed. Oh really? Well, I've been pissed at you guys for a really long time.

00:42:11

And also we talked about it in a way where you could see it coming and we spoke in normal tones.

00:42:16

We didn't all of a sudden scream at the top of our lungs out of the blue for seemingly no reason.

00:42:22

so who cares what they think anyway back to this murderous priest go on all right 23 years later

00:42:30

a woman tells the toledo catholic diocese diocese that she suffered years of ritual sex abuse

00:42:37

by a diocesan i don't know if i'm pronouncing that right uh and religious order of priests

00:42:45

during her childhood holy shit and she named gerald robinson in particular motherfucker

00:42:51

Now, those accusations were never substantiated. Come on, though. Why would she lie?

00:42:59

Well, A, why would she lie? B, it takes me straight to the Lincoln Credit Union thing that pedophile rings happen.

00:43:10

They are crazy and upsetting and nobody wants to admit it, but it has happened. They do happen.

00:43:16

Definitely. Whether that is happening because people want to dedicate their life to Satan, I don't know or think so.

00:43:24

And if that's what they say, it's an excuse for bad behavior. Right. They're not religious people.

00:43:30

No. And, you know, with it being unsubstantiated, the intimidation that you must receive when you have any allegation of this going on is so intense

00:43:45

that why would you then move forward with trying to substantiate it? Does that make sense?

00:43:50

Yes, exactly. Why would you put yourself in the hot water? You'd be like, you know what?

00:43:53

Fuck this. I'm moving on. Yeah. Now, I will just say this for even-keelness sake.

00:44:01

There is a possibility that the reason that she would make an accusation like that

00:44:06

and it would be unfounded and untrue is because she had mental health issues. Okay.

00:44:10

That is a possibility. In no way am I accusing her of that. I don't even know who this person is.

00:44:15

there's no name and that's of course the first thing that gets thrown back at a person like that

00:44:20

that then negates a victim's uh story right so i am in no way doing that the other thing is maybe

00:44:26

she does have mental health issues and also isn't lying yeah you know what i mean maybe her mental

00:44:31

health issues are because she went through this thing for her you know what i mean like yes

00:44:35

insane people are still fucking saying some things that are like the truth yes they're

00:44:40

experience. Yeah. You know what I mean? It's just so frustrating. Yes. And the idea that

00:44:46

things don't get substantiated doesn't mean that they didn't happen. It's that police cannot find proof

00:44:52

20 years later. Right. Or don't want to find proof. Because maybe there's no fucking involvement.

00:44:59

There are no conspiracies to the roof. Listen, my favorite murder is cracking the fucking case right now.

00:45:04

Get with it. By postulating. Postulating a lot. By repeatedly postulating vaguely.

00:45:10

Hardcore vague postulating. That's our tagline now. That's the new shirt. That's our hook.

00:45:17

Hardcore vague postulating. Okay, but then the authorities in December of the same year,

00:45:26

so it was like six months later, they receive a letter about the woman's allegations

00:45:30

and they reopen the investigation into Sister Margaret Ann's death. So basically somebody at the Catholic diocese heard this woman's story and believed her enough or felt enough about it to send a letter to the cops to say, I think this needs to be looked into in some way.

00:45:49

And they did. And that's why that Sister Margaret Ann's death got, the case got reopened.

00:45:56

And the name that they find is Father Gerald Robinson. And that's the big, there's a, there's a man named in this crazy quote unquote crazy story of ritual priest molestation.

00:46:11

And then when they go to open this 20 year old murder case, he's the, he's the one guy that works there and he's there.

00:46:20

So then they start looking into it and they start, they look at, I think, I'm not sure exactly how they hook this up, but I love this.

00:46:30

there was a very light indentation on that altar cloth that got put on her that had a little picture of the U.S. Capitol.

00:46:38

And it was the medallion on a letter opener that they found on his desk. Oh, my God.

00:46:46

And then they took that letter opener and they put it and compared it to her wounds.

00:46:52

It didn't match, right? It matched. Not only did it match, it matched like a key in a lock, quote, unquote.

00:46:59

Holy shit. So then they go and talk to him. And it's said that when they brought him in for questioning again,

00:47:09

this is now in 2004, I think. He's brought in for questioning. They talk to him a little bit.

00:47:20

He denies everything. And when he leaves, the camera catches him. He's whispering to himself and saying things.

00:47:29

like panic word, you know, like he's clearly praying. Oh my God. He's saying like, holy Jesus.

00:47:35

And it's little things that you, they can't pick up the whole thing, but it's, I can't, I can't find a quote here.

00:47:43

I want to watch it. That's crazy. So basically it's a, it's a bit of a Robert Durst moment where he doesn't realize he's still being filmed.

00:47:51

Oh my God. And he's alone, freaking the fuck out. No. Freak out, freak the fuck out to yourself, everyone.

00:47:58

Yeah, exactly. Bear straight ahead. Try to keep your eyes open as wide as possible.

00:48:03

Do not blink. Don't blink no matter what. But I feel like that's the thing of if you were looked at for a murder and you were not guilty of that murder.

00:48:16

And then they brought you back in 20 years later. Yeah. There's no need to pray in a panicked manner.

00:48:22

No. After the cops leave. No. I mean, you might be upset or whatever, but you don't.

00:48:27

What are you freaking out about? Yeah. I demand to know. You have to tell me. So essentially they figure out that Father Robinson was angry about Sister Paul's domineering ways.

00:48:41

That they had worked together for a long time. And that he basically snapped. Also the fact they were having Easter services at that chapel.

00:48:53

So maybe something specific happened or like the pressure was building or they had to work together more than often.

00:48:59

Yeah. More than usual, I mean. To me, though, the level of overkill. Oh, my God. Building up.

00:49:08

So crazy. Yeah. And it also indicates like if you're a priest, I mean, I understand that you would be very familiar with things like inverted crosses.

00:49:17

Yeah. To stab an inverted cross into an old woman's heart is pretty fucking extreme.

00:49:28

But what if he was stabbing her from her head? Like maybe it wasn't inverted in his mind.

00:49:36

You know what I'm saying? No, it's the shape of an inverted cross. Okay. They think, one of the theories is that he was trying to make it look like some outside total creep.

00:49:47

Which means he thought about it beforehand. Yeah. Like that's what's crazy is like those little aspects of like, that he means he thought about it beforehand.

00:49:55

Yeah. And also that doesn't sound like someone who's first and it was his first and only kill.

00:50:01

No, it really doesn't. No, it doesn't. I mean, for, for things that I've read, it absolutely doesn't because if you kill someone, if you snap and kill someone

00:50:11

and stab them a bunch of times, but you don't, you don't have the presence of mind to do shapes,

00:50:17

shapes and designs and shapes, the thing on the forehead, also putting the cloth on and then

00:50:24

taking it off. Like you would do one or the other. It means something. Yes. And it has meaning to you.

00:50:30

Yeah. And it is a ritual to you. Yeah. You, this priest. Like he can't see her while she's

00:50:37

still alive, but he's fine seeing her and stabbing her when she's dead. You know what I mean? But he,

00:50:43

it was, the cloth was on when he did the inverted cross. Yeah. So she was probably alive during that

00:50:47

and then she was dead. And so he could take it off and kill her and stab her more, which is creepy.

00:50:52

Yes, then he knows he's stabbing a dead body. And then a priest... 22 times. ...takes her clothing off.

00:51:00

It's like, you know, like, if you just wanted to kill her, then just do that. But then going through this, like,

00:51:05

to make it look sexual. And, like, people who try to make it look sexual so that they think it's someone else

00:51:10

are still doing this fucking crazy sexual thing. Yes, that's right. Right? Yes. It's...

00:51:17

There's all... There's so many questions that I have. And I'm the one that looked up the story.

00:51:27

Thank God. No, no, no. I mean, these are questions that only he can answer. Right.

00:51:33

These are not questions that we can... Yeah, I mean, because they didn't... He filed appeals.

00:51:39

He pled not guilty. He filed appeals. The jury convicted him in like six hours. He was convicted of...

00:51:48

They reduced the charge from aggravated murder. to just regular murder. But then he just was in jail for the rest of his life and died there.

00:51:59

And they convicted him on my birthday in 2006. Happy birthday. Was that a good birthday for you?

00:52:05

Let's see. I swear to God, like these last, I would say eight birthdays, I have almost no memory of.

00:52:12

That's really good. I mean, it's all the same. When you get to my age, girls, guys, when you get to my age.

00:52:18

I'm taking a photo of you right now because Alice is like sitting next to you just listening

00:52:23

to you intently he's my good friend yeah so that's that don't have any makeup on no you look great

00:52:30

I have work face priest Gerald Robinson probably not in heaven right now might be

00:52:37

in purgatory good chance he's in hell most likely oh Jews don't believe in hell well

00:52:43

depends on which Jew you ask he's he's you know where he is for all the Jews out there. He's waiting in line at the Cheesecake Factory and

00:52:53

he cannot get seated. That sounds anti-Semitic. I just can't figure out how. Is it racist? No,

00:53:00

I don't care. No, I don't care. No, I do. I do. I do. I'm an anti-Semitic. All right. That was

00:53:09

good. That was fucked up. That was fucked up. So it was good. Okay, good. Okay, we're back.

00:53:18

Happy Yom Kippur to everybody. And happy Purim when that is relevant. Okay. Do you have any updates, Karen?

00:53:25

There are no updates on this case. It's one of those that's old, it's done. It's just the kind of thing that gets reported on.

00:53:32

I do have information that's equally as important. I know what the sacristy of a chapel is now, and it is what I thought it was.

00:53:40

It's the dressing room of the church. It's the backstage area. Like the green room.

00:53:44

Yeah. I think I called it the backstage. Backstage. Where all the vestments and the sacred items and the liturgical supplies are stored.

00:53:51

And when where the priests get ready before church basically Me me me me me Like God God God God God I love New York I need New York I love I need unique New York Also I want to talk about this and thank you Alison Agosti for including this piece of information

00:54:07

We talked about this clown panic that actually happened during 2016. That's right.

00:54:12

Very real. Just a person standing on a corner in a clown costume at night, right?

00:54:16

Holding an axe. That's the part that sucks. There was an element to it that was very intentionally threatening.

00:54:21

And once one, it was like it would happen in one state and then it would start happening in others.

00:54:26

Someone was like, some teenager was like, great idea. And they would do it themselves.

00:54:30

Because it would go on the news and then they would show the video of like someone in a car passing a clown holding an axe just standing on the side of the road.

00:54:37

Now, do you think that's legal? Like without the axe, fucking fine, whatever, loitering.

00:54:42

But with the axe, is that like threatening someone's life? I don't know. With a deadly weapon kind of thing.

00:54:48

Is it about like how high up you're holding that axe? Right. An angle? Right. Are you a smiling clown or are you a crying clown?

00:54:53

Are you just picking your nails with that ax? No big deal. Trying to get some broccoli out of your teeth.

00:54:58

You're fine. Oh, God. So let me just tell you a little bit about this very real evil clown panic of 2016.

00:55:05

So the president of the World Clown Association, Randy Christensen, actually had to come out and condemn this trend, noting the negative effects on legitimate clown performers and related businesses.

00:55:18

He said, we're full of people that love children, bring smiles and want to help people laugh and bring comic relief.

00:55:24

The people dressing up are trying to scare people. No professional clown would ever take part in anything like that.

00:55:31

At this time, McDonald's even limited Ronald McDonald appearances at any kind of live event.

00:55:36

Wow. That's how scared people were of clowns. When you have influence over at McDonald's, like, good job.

00:55:43

Good job. And then it came back briefly in 2017 because the It Chapter One came out.

00:55:47

Right. Which is kind of hilarious. And then it just went away. And then it just went away.

00:55:51

So weird. What were they distracting us from? This is how it's all working, people.

00:55:56

Who was behind the mask? That's a circus. Stop eating your bread. Okay, now it's time for Georgia's story about the Gage Park stabbings.

00:56:08

Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.

00:56:13

Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro. And these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.

00:56:24

Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.

00:56:33

Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy. How it shapes our identities and relationships.

00:56:41

And how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,

00:56:47

but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.

00:56:51

And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.

00:56:56

And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.

00:57:01

Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

00:57:09

This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,

00:57:19

one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS

00:57:26

and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,

00:57:34

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.

00:57:40

he thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.

00:57:47

You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl.

00:57:52

All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.

00:57:57

What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl

00:58:04

now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So, all right.

00:58:12

Since we're going to be at the Chicago Podcast Festival, I wanted to give a big up to Chicago

00:58:17

by doing Chicago murder. No. What? Is it the torso murders? No. Oh, wait, no, that's Ohio.

00:58:26

Also, I want to apologize to Indianapolis. Oh, they were hurt. I know, but they were so funny about it

00:58:32

and it makes me want to go there. I know. Last week I said that I never want to go to Indianapolis

00:58:36

and everyone was just like, yeah, we get it. they were like really cool about it.

00:58:39

And I'm like, oh, they sound cool. I know. I'll go to Indianapolis. But also to me, when you said that,

00:58:44

you clearly were just pulling a city name out of your, it wasn't like you've been there and you're all bummed.

00:58:48

No, I mean, realistically, it's Cincinnati. One of every episode, I just name a city and piss the entire country off.

00:58:56

No, you just, but always keep it in that area, like that very contained area in the Midwest.

00:59:01

That realistically we're never going to go to. We are so going to go on a train tour

00:59:06

that is Indianapolis. Let's go to the places Georgia is kind of meh on. Up to Peoria, Illinois.

00:59:15

Uh-huh. But then right back down. Pittsburgh, you're on that list. Pittsburgh PA.

00:59:20

Pittsburgh parties. Yeah. Pittsburgh's good times. Is it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. We'll be there.

00:59:27

Come on, I've done some colleges. It's true. I've stayed at some of the best days in

00:59:31

around this country. I can tell you all about it. Thank you so much. I saw the highway.

00:59:36

And the byway. The throughway? Can I go? Please. Okay. I'm kidding. I don't care.

00:59:48

So this is... I don't want to... I want to stop laughing while I say what this is.

00:59:52

Good idea. This is the Gage Park Stabbings Yeah exactly Stabbings plural Stabbings multiple What city did you say Chicago Yeah okay

01:00:05

So February 4th, 2016. That's recent. Oh, shit. That's right after we started this podcast.

01:00:12

Okay. Police are called to perform a well-being check at the Martinez family home,

01:00:19

which is in Gage Park, which is a quiet working class neighborhood in the southwest side of Chicago.

01:00:26

No one from the family had been seen since February 2nd, two days before. And a coworker of one of the family members

01:00:32

had been to the police like, what's up? So the police go and the doors to the Martinez family house are locked

01:00:40

and there's no signs of fourth century. But once the police got inside, they discovered the bodies of the entire Martinez family.

01:00:48

How many people? Well, are you ready for this? So Noe Martinez Sr., he's 62. He's found just inside the front door with blood all over his head and arms.

01:00:59

And he had had 10 stab wounds to the chest. Noe's wife, 58-year-old Rosario Martinez, was found inside the back porch,

01:01:11

stabbed 45 times in her head, neck, chest, abdomen, including more than two dozen times in her head.

01:01:17

Head stab wounds, man. I can't fucking deal with these. Those are like, you got to like stab hard.

01:01:23

That's rage. Yeah. That's crazy rage. Yeah. Their daughter, 32-year-old Maria Martinez, had died of four gunshot wounds to the head.

01:01:34

Fuck. And their son, Noe Martinez Jr., who's 38, was found next to his sister. They were both in an upstress bedroom.

01:01:42

He had 16 blunt force injuries to his head and another 13 stab wounds to the head.

01:01:50

So here's the real sad part. I mean, that's a bummer, but the sons of Maria, Alexis Cruz, who was 10, was discovered in the basement.

01:02:00

And he had 11 stab wounds to the torso and 16 defensive wounds to his arms and hands.

01:02:07

And then 13-year-old Leonardo Cruz is found on the front porch with 11 stab wounds to the head, shoulder, and chest.

01:02:14

Who the... Oh, my God. So it was believed that all six were killed within about a three-hour period.

01:02:21

and the doors nightmare yeah the doors are locked you know no one's been heard from since the second

01:02:27

oh the family dog palusa which is spanish for fuzzy was found alive inside covered in blood

01:02:34

invisibly shaken oh that poor dog i mean jesus christ and this is like a few fucking like less

01:02:44

than a year ago in Chicago, like a nice family. So police originally thought it was a murder

01:02:53

suicide, but the autopsy proved otherwise. And there were three types of knives used

01:02:59

and none of them were there. So they were like, clearly this is an, and a gun. Then a month after the family was killed, they still hadn't found anyone. And people

01:03:09

were like freaking out that there was some crazy killer on the loose. So the police kind

01:03:14

of started looking into the theory that maybe the killer or killers had, it was like a hit

01:03:18

and they had hit the wrong home because the family had no ties to drugs and nothing criminal

01:03:23

at all. So they were starting to think that maybe because all the houses looked similar in that

01:03:28

area that these criminals had hit the wrong home, which is fucking terrifying also.

01:03:35

The cops said it's possible they targeted the wrong home for whatever reasons they were

01:03:38

trying to get into a residence there. the family was targeted, but whether it was domestic related or possibly a Mexican cartel

01:03:46

remains unclear, they said. Let's see. Okay. So those were the initial theories.

01:03:54

Then eventually they started thinking that the family had been specifically targeted because

01:03:58

Maria Martinez, who they thought was the main target, had been shot rather than stabbed. So

01:04:04

they were like, that's fucking weird. So around three months later, while the whole neighborhood

01:04:08

freaking out, the detectives get a tip that the 22-year-old nephew of Maria's ex-husband

01:04:14

had shown up the day after with noticeable injuries. His name is Diego Uribe and detectives

01:04:22

get a DNA sample of him from him. A few weeks later, his DNA matched the blood under Maria's

01:04:29

fingernails. And phone records also placed Diego Uribe in the area when the murders occurred.

01:04:37

22 year old fucking nephew. What the fuck? Yeah. Yeah. So on May 19th, 2016, the Chicago police announced

01:04:47

first degree murder charges against Uribe saying he had killed all six of them, including the two children

01:04:52

in a robbery that had turned into a massacre. Although it seems like he had wanted to kill them

01:04:57

in addition to rob them. Yeah. You don't know. That's you don't kill six people.

01:05:03

You don't kill two fucking children. No. Because it's like a robbery gone wrong.

01:05:07

No. And his girlfriend, Japheth Ramos, who was 19, was also charged. So it seems like Martinez, who was close to the boys and close to the family,

01:05:20

they let him into the house because they knew him and he was there a lot. And he had gotten into an argument with Maria upstairs and had shot her first.

01:05:34

And then her brother, Noe Jr., goes upstairs after hearing the shots and he beats him to death with a gun.

01:05:42

Then the mom, Rosero Martinez, goes upstairs. She gets killed next. And then he found the boys and he made them get cash and Xbox and other valuables from various rooms in the house after he had killed their family And then he took the boys Alexis to the basement stabs him to death

01:06:06

and murders the other boy while he begs for his life. He's a fucking animal. Yeah, and he's admitting, like, they admitted to all of this.

01:06:14

Oh, my God. And then he waits for the grandfather to get home and kills him on the porch.

01:06:20

so they Aribe and Ramos made off with an Xbox about $550 in cash and jewelry and then

01:06:29

they pawned for about $150 and they said it was because they needed money for milk and diapers for their son

01:06:37

as well as a car and so she's not, they don't think she actually killed anyone but they think she was a quote

01:06:45

active participant so she was there like fucking cheering him on. Holding people down.

01:06:51

Yeah, probably. But they both confess. They're both charged with first degree murder,

01:06:56

held without bail. But so they said they needed it for money, but apparently there was tension between Uribe

01:07:02

and Maria Martinez because when Maria divorced Uribe's uncle, he had a quote, a lot of anger

01:07:10

over how she had treated him. But another family member said that the uncle was super controlling of Maria and didn't

01:07:16

allow her to take showers, put on makeup or leave the house without his permission.

01:07:20

So he hates her. But meanwhile, she's in this crazy controlling relationship and finally gets out of it.

01:07:27

So yeah, they're being charged with first degree murder. All the victims are going to be buried in Mexico. The Mexican

01:07:34

consulate of Chicago is assisting in moving the bodies back to Mexico. That's fucking Chicago in

01:07:40

February. And I had never heard of it. I've never heard that. That's huge. Also, it's fascinating

01:07:48

you kill six people of your family. Yeah. And you have the foresight to like lock the door when you leave.

01:07:55

So it like that tiny detail is so confusing. Yeah. That you, that they would assume all these weird things.

01:08:04

Yeah. Oh my God. But the weird detail to me too is that, that he waited for the grandfather to come home

01:08:10

because he wanted there to be a couple of days in between the bodies being found.

01:08:16

And he knew that if he just left without killing that grandfather, who was probably home every night.

01:08:22

Yeah. Then he would come home to these bodies and it would be a quicker fucking discovery.

01:08:28

I mean. So he waits for him, kills him and locks the doors. Also, what brand of psycho are you when you can kill all those people?

01:08:38

like I mean it's just it's upsetting to hear about it much less he did it and then like took

01:08:46

a break and then did a little bit more so that he could fucking have what yeah five hundred dollars

01:08:52

it doesn't make it clearly isn't about that because it doesn't make any sense like you can

01:08:57

rob the family without murdering them all but I think he went over there with the intention of

01:09:01

killing them so he could rob them which if he he kills her first by shooting her and then you would

01:09:08

think he would stab her because he's so angry with her and then shoot the others. Wait, did they say

01:09:14

anything about drugs? There was no drugs involved. What the fuck? Neither of them had a record. The

01:09:20

girlfriend had been arrested once for shoplifting or something like minor shoplifting. Wow. But it's

01:09:28

just, yeah, it's like you don't even, you don't even rob strangers. You rob these two kids that

01:09:35

you used to go over and play video games with and be and befriended that were younger than you and

01:09:40

you can kill them like that's psychopath that's to me yeah it's like these it's just these crazy

01:09:45

circumstances that you become this or are always a psychopath and nobody knows about it yes exactly

01:09:52

that family's like come on in oh it's cousin ricky or whatever the fuck his name is yeah

01:09:57

we're gonna do good things we need a good things moment we need like a good theme song

01:10:11

so we can both lay down for a minute podcast fuck I guess my good thing is being yelled outside

01:10:22

well being in San Francisco was so much fun wait did it rain while you were up there

01:10:26

No, it was actually too hot. That's hilarious. It was like 90 something. Oh, shit.

01:10:33

People must have been naked. When the sun comes out and it's like 78 in San Francisco,

01:10:38

people are like, my shorts. It's the funniest thing in the world. The first thing we did was get falafels from Truly Mediterranean

01:10:45

and sit in, what's that park called? Is it the one that's up near the Haight? Yeah.

01:10:54

Yeah. No, not Golden Gate Park. Anyways. No, no, no. But there's a part, there's a small park that's like, if you go down toward

01:11:01

the lower height. Yeah. Uh, it was just full of like college kids and, and not no clothes and like

01:11:07

everyone was getting high and it was just like super sweet. Yeah. Yeah. So fun. So I think that

01:11:13

the highlight of my week was that getting, that was my first time like getting yelled at by a

01:11:18

stranger about the podcast. That's the best. Yeah. It was really nice. Out of car. I know.

01:11:23

Thank you to whoever that was. How about the best moment of your week, Karen? I mean, I have to say that going to watch Never Not Funny Live was awesome because those guys are so hilarious.

01:11:38

And Edie McClurg was there. She was just there to watch the show. She's legendary.

01:11:44

You may know her as the school secretary from Ferris Bueller's Day Off. She's a righteous dude.

01:11:50

God, she's so cute. She's been in over a thousand movies. they were looking at her IMDb and talking about her.

01:11:56

And so she, yes. And she got up to walk to the stage because they heard she was there

01:12:01

and then they invited her up to say hi. And she couldn't see because she was up in the back

01:12:06

and it was super dark. So I went and grabbed her hand and walked her up. And that's when Jimmy gave us the shout out.

01:12:12

Did he give us a shout out or just say something about it? No, he doesn't. You know, he's like,

01:12:16

he talks like he's, you know, like he's always talks like he's a professional radio man.

01:12:20

Oh, right. So he actually was like, Karen Kogara from the My Favorite Murder podcast.

01:12:25

And then he started pretending he was mad about it. Riffing on you. It was really awesome.

01:12:29

That's so sweet. Yeah, that was good. But it also made me happy because after a long day of work,

01:12:33

sometimes going to a comedy show is the best thing in the world. Instead of just going home and being like,

01:12:38

I'm tired, I'm going to try to watch some show that will fall asleep no matter what in five minutes.

01:12:45

Going and watching my friends be hilarious and say the best things and riff shit,

01:12:50

it's life affirming. Plus, I know that you're a quick makeup in the car person. And I feel like sometimes

01:12:57

being forced to put makeup on makes you feel better. You know what I mean? Yes. Like that's what I do. When I go work at cafes during the day now, I have eyelash extensions.

01:13:07

I make myself put on makeup because I will immediately have a better day, like feel better about myself.

01:13:12

Yes. There was for like five years when I was in my, what I like to call now the hermit phase,

01:13:18

which is infuriating because anytime I did a podcast or anything, I would remember when I

01:13:23

got there, oh, they're going to make me take a fucking picture at the end of it. I always forgot.

01:13:26

Yeah. But for a long time, I just wouldn't. I'd be like, what for? Who cares? Like, who's going to see me?

01:13:32

It doesn't matter. And then just recently, yeah, just to go and be somewhere and just kind of feel like I'm out and I'm in the world

01:13:40

and I'm of the world. Yeah. Putting on some fucking a nice liquid eyeliner Yeah a nice rosy like tint lip tint A lip tint that will stay for a couple hours Yeah Keep you young and fresh looking

01:13:54

Yeah. Yeah, it's a good... Glossier? Can we get another ad, please? Glossier? How about you represent us as we represent you all goddamn day long?

01:14:06

Shillin' our package? Shillin' shillin'. Shillin' it. Shillin' shillin' minding our business.

01:14:11

thanks for listening to my favorite murder we love you for loving murder like we do

01:14:18

you guys are the best thank you murderinos thank you for your support and stay sexy

01:14:24

don't get murdered Elvis you want a cookie want a cookie Elvis you want a cookie

01:14:31

come on cookie boy Elvis there he is he's fucking like pay me bitches bye bye okay we are back do you have um updates on this case i have a few updates when i covered this case

01:14:51

the murders had taken place earlier that same year so the trial hadn't happened yet

01:14:56

so in november 2022 a jury found diego urbe guilty of six counts of murder he was sentenced

01:15:03

to life in prison and provided no further explanation for why he targeted the poor

01:15:08

members of his own family for robbery and murder, which is just so confounding. Japheth Ramos,

01:15:14

Urubai's girlfriend, ended up testifying against him. And she made a deal with prosecutors for a

01:15:20

lesser charge of armed robbery in the hope that she would one day be able to be with her son,

01:15:24

who was barely a toddler at the time. Like, what a waste of... Heartbreaking. Yeah In December 2022 she was sentenced to 25 years in prison Ugh That the end Man Well we should put the photo of you It so cute Of you and Elvis

01:15:41

Oh, me and Elvis really being best friends. You've got this, like, whelp look on your face.

01:15:47

Yeah, that's me being like, oh, do I have another job to go to now? I love that.

01:15:52

We're going to post it on Instagram, so check that out. That's the real crossover of when I started to realize you can't ever not wear makeup.

01:16:01

Oh, yeah. You can't. No, you look so cute in the long hair. Elvis looks a little like disappointed.

01:16:07

Here's what I loved about Elvis and his company. He would just come and be like, I'll be near you now.

01:16:13

I'll give you my presence and you could feel it. But he wouldn't. It's like he doesn't really want you to pet him.

01:16:18

No, I don't want this on your lap. I don't need to pet me. I'm like, I just want to be part of this.

01:16:22

Yeah, he really was such a part of it for so long. Like a boy. All right. So I like that episode.

01:16:28

Yeah. Those are good. I do too. So it was originally titled Sidebar Nation. It's just because we can't stop going off topic, off topic, off topic.

01:16:37

The whole podcast should be called Sidebar Nation. Yeah. Actually, there should be like a, what's it called?

01:16:41

Spinoff. It'll be a spinoff where two young women play us. Lip sync it. Two drag queens, lip sync it.

01:16:47

Call it Sidebar Nation. I'd love that. But if we were naming it today, maybe we would call it the hurricane episode just because of everything happening quickly at the top of the episode.

01:16:56

Yeah, there's a bunch of action. or we could call it Cools for Fools, which Georgia tried to tell the story of what happened to her in front of McDonald's

01:17:05

and saying that she tried to play it cool but couldn't play it cool. You were jumping up and down.

01:17:09

I was. I'll never play it cool. That's just not me. No. Cools for Fools, baby. Yeah. Well, thank you, guys. You're cool. Thanks for listening to Rewind.

01:17:18

Yeah thanks for being here with us and continuing on We do this every week on Wednesdays just looking at old shows And I don know I guess we just podcasting forever So join us please

01:17:30

And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.

01:17:46

In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,

01:17:52

one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS

01:17:59

and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,

01:18:07

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We created our own podcast called Hey Jonas.

01:18:19

How do we actually come up with the name Hey Jonas, guys? I honestly don't remember.

01:18:23

We were talking about a fit for the podcast where people could call in and say, Hey Jonas.

01:18:27

And then I wrote down on my little notepad, Hey Jonas, and offered it up as a potential title for the podcast.

01:18:33

But thanks for remembering that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

01:18:40

Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. I'm Nancy Glass, host of the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast.

01:18:46

This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpwright became the victim of a random crime.

01:18:56

The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything.

01:19:03

I was a monster. Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

My Favorite Murder with Karen Kilgariff and Georgi

Rewind with Karen & Georgia - 38: Sidebar Nation

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