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00:01:51
Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. It's Wednesday, and that means that we're recapping one of our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.
00:02:01
Today, we're recapping episode 39, which we named Kind of Loco. Join us as we journey back to October 19th, 2016, the date of the final presidential debate between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.
00:02:14
This is a crying emoji, crying emoji. Let's listen to the intro of episode 39. Are you ready to make some magic?
00:02:24
Do you know magic? Yeah, I know up close magic. I can't do distance magic, though.
00:02:31
Sorry. I'll live. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. I'm Karen Kilgariff. I'm Georgia Hardstark.
00:02:40
And together we're... Karen Kilgariff and Georgia Hardstark. Yes. Playing along.
00:02:49
Yes. How's it going? Hey, it's good. How are you? We're at a different speed this week.
00:02:56
Somebody wrote us on Twitter and said that on the last episode, we seemed hysterical,
00:03:01
which I agree. I think we were slightly hysterical. We were just like, we were just like ramped up one notch.
00:03:09
Yeah. It was like powering through it. Like I need to get through this. But it was fun.
00:03:14
We had a great time. That's all that matters. Yeah. We enjoyed ourselves. I mean, who wants a droll, boring podcast, like murder comedy podcast?
00:03:22
I mean, yeah, I don't think most people. If you've come here for a narrative true crime podcast,
00:03:28
then just add Adderall and that's what you fucking have. It's like that. It's similar.
00:03:36
Yeah. We're actually on physician's grade cocaine now. That's the secret to this podcast.
00:03:44
I wonder what that's like. It's pretty great. If you had a chance, nevermind. If I could do a drug again?
00:03:51
No, but like, but like, if someone was like, this is this physician's grade, like government, whatever the fuck drug, would you do it?
00:04:00
Which drug? Like Coke, let's say. Sure. Well, I can't. You mean like if, if I didn't have any of my, I have all kinds of neurological disorders because I did all that.
00:04:10
Don't do drugs, kids. It's not worth it. It's totally only because of that. You wouldn't have had the Melrose?
00:04:15
It's a theory. They can't, you know, having epilepsy or seizure disorder. they don't know why exactly unless they look at your brain like dropped on your head close up
00:04:25
I was dropped on my head fuck up I didn't tell you that I think you probably did I did my mom
00:04:30
tripped over my high chair when I was six months old I don't think I knew this yeah and she broke
00:04:35
her arm we both fell and I hit my head and had to get stitches I still have a tiny tiny scar
00:04:40
but I'm totally the serial killer as we have discussed in this podcast because I had that
00:04:46
I'm going to have to kill you before you kill me. Okay. That makes sense, right?
00:04:49
I think that'd be a great way to go. Just do it. Creep up behind me. Okay. As a favor.
00:04:54
Oh, yeah. No, you got it. But no stabbing. Slicing? Please julienne me to death.
00:05:02
I know you love cooking. I love cooking. I'm going to julienne you. And a light saute.
00:05:06
I'm going to put you in a Cuisinart. I'm going to serve you. Yeah. Yeah, don't do drugs, you guys.
00:05:14
Don't do drugs. We did them for you. We can come back and tell you. Yep. It's not what it's cut out to be.
00:05:20
It's like how my dad used to say he would never get cable. We lived way out in the country, so we only got four channels and he wouldn't get cable.
00:05:26
He'd go, hey, we have that in the firehouse. It's no good. He'd be like, let us try.
00:05:31
We'll decide if we like it or not. Decided for you. Yep. It's protected you guys from so much.
00:05:36
And yet. And yet. It didn't work. Here we are. Oh, sorry. Hit the fucking. Oh, wait.
00:05:41
Go ahead. What was I going to? Yeah. Don't do drugs. I know we're going to get some email of some mommy.
00:05:47
I'm like, I listen with my 12 year old girl. And you're telling her to do drugs.
00:05:51
Oh, guess what, mom? Don't listen with your 12 year old. I won even have it I listen with my 12 year old This is a comedy murder podcast It is highly inappropriate that anybody would be listening to this
00:06:05
At that point, that's on you, mommy. Yes. Like, don't come at us. Mommy. And then like that night,
00:06:10
she goes to bed and then looks in the doorway and there's a glint of silver. Yeah.
00:06:14
Who's that? One of you up? Yeah. I'm a lake mommy. High on angel dust. Good, like,
00:06:20
government quality angel dust. Because you wouldn't let us Warn your children off of angel death.
00:06:25
Yeah, you stopped, you pressed stop at the point where we were talking about doing drugs
00:06:28
and didn't listen to the rest of the podcast where we said, don't do drugs. Under any circumstances ever do drugs.
00:06:34
No, I mean, we did them and look at us now. We're fucking derelict. God, I look like I'm about 62.
00:06:39
Yeah, unsuccessful. But, but no's. I just had a couple thank yous from the Twitter page.
00:06:48
Oh, I love it. Because people send us amazing, great stuff. The best. Can I do some off Instagram then?
00:06:53
sure your twitter and i'm instagram nope only me only twitter um you absolutely can i love it uh
00:07:03
we just had courtney sent us pictures of her she didn't name the person in the picture with her
00:07:09
um but it was a picture of the two of them they had carved pump oh i have it and i have the name
00:07:13
of the girl because they both posted it and i was like i'm gonna give them both a shout out because
00:07:17
this is an instagram area and i've overstepped no but they tweeted it then you retweet it yes
00:07:23
but there was no names. Okay. Well, I just have no time. They carved, stay sexy,
00:07:28
don't get murdered and you're in a cult, call your dad into pumpkins which must have taken hours.
00:07:33
Yeah. I can't carve a fucking pumpkin like that. Every time I try to carve a pumpkin,
00:07:37
it's disappointing. And you cut your hand and you get that group in it. And halfway through,
00:07:41
you're like, what though? I don't give a shit. I'm not going to eat these pumpkin seeds.
00:07:44
A triangle for an eye. Fine. You know what? He's a cyclops. You know what? One triangle eye
00:07:49
and one tooth. Boom. Done. Can I have another glass of wine, please. And I don't want to eat these fucking disgusting, you know. Oh, let's cook them up.
00:07:58
No, I'm not in second grade. I'm not falling for pumpkin seeds ever again. This is a tangent hour. But you need the fiber. Do you know the names?
00:08:05
I don't. Okay. But they're sweet baby angels. It was Courtney at Coffin Bugs is her Twitter
00:08:10
handle. Okay. Well, then the other girl is Wandering Lamb on Instagram. Sweet. It could be the same girl, right? It might very well. But either way,
00:08:17
they're friends and I think they're both tagged in the Instagram. Okay, good. If her name is
00:08:22
on Twitter, Coffin Bugs, and then on Instagram, Wandering Lamb, that girl contains multitudes.
00:08:27
Absolutely. God bless her soul. But then David, whose Twitter handle is Hello Dabwood, which is kind of like
00:08:35
Dagwood, but with a B as in boy, made an animated GIF of us driving a car. I'm driving. You've got
00:08:44
Elvis on your lap. There's a lightning storm in this car. And then when the lightning hits,
00:08:48
There's a murderer in the backseat. But it is so charming and well done and like adorable.
00:08:54
You showed it to me when you got here because I didn't know because I don't, because Twitter overwhelms me.
00:08:58
And like, it's the best thing I've ever fucking seen. Isn't it the best? Yeah. I think Instagram for me,
00:09:03
I think that if you want to see the cool shit that people make for our show, which is a fucking ton of stuff,
00:09:08
the Instagram.com slash my favorite murder or just my favorite murder Instagram.
00:09:12
I just, I'm constantly posting stuff on that because of other people's stuff. Yeah.
00:09:17
It's been a while I'll shill, but. It's very cool. It's just, it's crazy. And fun.
00:09:22
And fun. And everyone's so talented. I love all those artists that are like, I was listening to you and I started sketching this thing
00:09:28
and then it turns into this beautiful... Yeah. And then people are like, I want this as a shirt.
00:09:33
And then they go make money. I'm like, go make fucking money. I know. It's so cool.
00:09:37
Another murderinos, buy it. I'm so happy for them. Just one last one, which was Allison,
00:09:43
her Twitter handle is Turbo Alley. And she had been listening to an old episode and reminded everybody,
00:09:48
please clean out your lint trap in your dryer. Please. And it makes me happy that she tweeted it,
00:09:55
but I want to remind people as well, worry about your homes burning down a lot because that's my personal neuroses.
00:10:02
Well, your father was a fireman. An equally neurotic fireman who would yell at us
00:10:09
if there was even a hint of lint in the lint trap. So I'm doing the same to you.
00:10:13
That reminds me that there is this thing, not Alyssa. Is that who she is? It might be the same girl.
00:10:20
Alyssa on our Facebook group made something called Georgia and Karen's Rules for How to Stay Sexy
00:10:29
and Not Get Murdered or Not Be a Murderer or Murder Suspect. Her name is Joanna Groom.
00:10:34
I don't know. I think it's her website. Oh, okay. But there's a couple. This is a running list
00:10:39
that I will continue to add to as G and K continue to preach. Number one, if you came here to learn,
00:10:44
you're in the wrong place. That's right. Number two, guys, if you ever find something, say something or you look fucking suspicious.
00:10:50
Your parents won't get mad at you for being on someone's land if you find a skull.
00:10:55
Number three, if you find a body, you should tell someone. That's true. Number four, guys, do not sell your government secrets.
00:11:00
And it goes on and on for like fucking, it's not like, oh my God, it's like 129 at this point.
00:11:07
Jesus Christ. I want to give out the website, but I don't know what it is. Well, it's on the Facebook page, right?
00:11:13
I'll put it on the Facebook page. Yeah. Cool, cool. That's hilarious. MFM Podcast is the Facebook page.
00:11:20
Thank you, Joanna, for keeping that list. It's fucking great. I love it. That's hilarious.
00:11:24
What do you got? What corner do you have? I have, oh my God, I got Recognize Corner.
00:11:29
Oh. Which is always fun. This is separate from San Francisco. Yeah. But the girl messaged me on Instagram that it was her.
00:11:36
Oh, nice. And it was like her. She had just gotten engaged and she saw me and she was so excited.
00:11:41
Oh. I know. Congratulations. That's a good omen. Yeah. Seeing me or getting engaged.
00:11:45
So her seeing you right when she got engaged. Yeah. That's exciting. That maybe she won't get murdered by her future husband.
00:11:52
Well, you never know. You don't ever know. Oh so I was walking out of a juice place in Los Feliz And some girl just goes my favorite murder Which I totally get because like you see someone you like I just have to say the thing that I know you from immediately
00:12:05
because I didn't stop and like say what, you know? Right. And I was like, yay! Like held the juices over my head in triumph.
00:12:13
And I was like, thank you. Because it was the first time I got recognized like in my neighborhood, you know?
00:12:17
Yeah, that's crazy. And she was like a cool hipster girl like we all are around here.
00:12:20
I love that. Well, I have one, April and I were eating in the diner we always eat at.
00:12:24
April Richardson, everyone's favorite, adorable. From Go Bayside podcast and standup comedy.
00:12:32
And you were eating in a diner as you do. We were eating in a diner as we do. And a girl walked by outside and then walked in,
00:12:39
pulled out her earbuds and just said, I just want to let you know, I love your podcast.
00:12:44
I think she may have said I'm listening to it right now. Oh my God. That's always been like a dream of walking by someone
00:12:50
whose podcast I'm listening to. Wouldn't that be the weirdest feeling in the world?
00:12:53
But I might be just saying that because that would be a really good part of the story.
00:12:57
I feel like she did. Let's go. But anyway, that was kind of exciting. And then she left and April goes, this is like a hard day's night.
00:13:05
I was like, it's really not. It's exactly like that. It's totally. Us getting chased through the street by one person who politely came into the diner.
00:13:15
Politely came in quietly and then immediately left as we sat at a table. Yeah. Eating salad.
00:13:20
Fun times. Thanks for your support and love, you guys. it really means a lot to us.
00:13:23
This is weird and fun and we love it. And oh my God, I can't believe it. It was weird.
00:13:30
That was Freak Out Corner. Yeah. There's so many corners. There's like too many corners.
00:13:33
I don't think that it equals an actual room. No, no. It's a mansion. Corners. It's a mansion of corners.
00:13:40
Did you want to talk about last week when I had to drop in the correct? What if I did it again?
00:13:46
Because it's now changed again. Do it, please. It's my favorite. So I'm listening to my own podcast.
00:13:52
Quality control, man. I mean, we can say that or we could call it ego non-control,
00:13:57
whatever it takes. Quality control. I enjoy listening back because when we do it oftentimes,
00:14:02
it's just a blur. And then I go, oh, we did say that's funny. Yeah. Or do the thing where you picture someone
00:14:08
like that you like listening to the podcast. Yes. This is what I sound like. That's when I stop listening
00:14:13
because then I'm like, oh no. You know what I keep doing is, what the fuck is wrong with my laugh?
00:14:17
Next week, Georgia, control your laugh. It's like goofy and fucking, Don't you dare.
00:14:23
The worst thing in the world you could do is change or control your laugh. I learned that in stand-up comedy.
00:14:28
Oh, yeah. Because in comedy, standing in the back, you're always trying to get people to know you're laughing at their joke.
00:14:34
But if you try to have, like, say, a feminine laugh or a cute girl, whatever, just be just in that one arena.
00:14:42
Let yourself be authentic and don't worry about what people think because it's the most natural response that you can have.
00:14:49
Yeah. And you should let it come out. even if it's a big snorting goose laugh. I love snorting laughs.
00:14:56
Well, can I, in that fucking vein, can I tell you, can I admit something to you?
00:15:00
Is this going to get sad? Yeah. Okay. I'm a scream sneezer. I didn't know it. I didn't fucking know it until this weekend.
00:15:09
And past episodes, if you're fucking, if you're new. Hi. Hi, welcome. We've talked about scream sneezers before.
00:15:16
Yeah, and I have a real problem with them. I do too. but apparently it overcame you?
00:15:22
No, I do it all the time and I never realized it. And I asked Vince and he was, I'm like,
00:15:27
am I a scream sneezer? Because he knows we've talked about it and he was like, no,
00:15:32
you're not. And I was like, Vince, the best husband in the world. Such a sweet angel.
00:15:36
I wouldn't call it screaming. It's the same thing when I asked, do I snore? Oh no,
00:15:41
you're cute. You know, like, I saw a yes, I fucking snore. Yeah, I scream sneeze.
00:15:47
I mean, listen, as long as it's okay that I get mad. Oh, I don't care. Because scream sneezing legitimately scares me.
00:15:57
It's terrifying. My mom does it too. Yeah. Like I had a roommate that all of a sudden it would just be like,
00:16:01
the weirdest thing in the world that you can ever be prepared for. No. All right.
00:16:06
Well, maybe we now know that scream sneezers don't know that they're scream sneezing.
00:16:10
It's true. And also that they can't control it. We did get a tweet from somebody who was like,
00:16:14
some people can't control it. And she was clearly very hurt. I'm sorry if you were hurt
00:16:18
I'm a person of very strong opinions but I also go back on those opinions it's fun to be very adamant
00:16:25
about things that you really don't give a shit about honestly in real life we're trying to make the time go by
00:16:31
before we die this is what it's about this is it you know what I was going to say
00:16:38
we don't do this that often when it's like an off topic thing but I just want to say
00:16:44
our friends Pat Walsh and Joda Rosa have a podcast called We'll See You in Hell that I listen to all the time
00:16:50
and never plug or give a shout out to. And I don't know why. It's really funny. If you like two dudes that fight about like movies.
00:16:59
Those are the two most, if you like people who will argue anything, you know, like either side, those dudes,
00:17:05
I can't believe they're friends. I know. It's great. You watch their friendship kind of deteriorate
00:17:10
and build back up every episode. But they're both softies so that they like then feel bad.
00:17:15
They're fucking hilarious, both of them. And it's fun because you can either watch the movie along with them.
00:17:21
In the beginning, they used to watch the movie and discuss it as it went. And then you could watch it along with them.
00:17:26
Yeah, it's always like a B-horror movie, right? Yeah, I think they kind of opened it up.
00:17:31
So it's kind of like whatever movies they want now. But now they just kind of discuss them.
00:17:36
But anyway, it's totally worth your time if you are into horror movies, regular movies, or just taking our recommendation.
00:17:44
And they're both fucking hilarious. Hilarious people. Comedy writers, people. Good friends.
00:17:49
We like them. Yeah. Comedians. Good stuff. They've never murdered anyone as far as we know.
00:17:53
I just had that realization. I was listening to their podcast over the weekend I was like I genuinely like this I should at least say that That really nice of you I think that we should recommend a friend podcast every episode Yeah it might be good Or just things that we actually are watching like Poldark
00:18:08
Like what? Remember? So I said to Georgia, a lot of people have asked us, are we going to talk about Amanda
00:18:14
Knox? That Amanda Knox special, which you wrote about, right? For Elle Magazine. Yeah. Online.
00:18:19
So if you haven't read Georgia's column about it for Elle magazine, look that up because Georgia does her whole summation.
00:18:27
Thank you. I didn't watch it because Georgia told me she didn't like it. And so I was like, well, if she didn't like it, I'm not going to like it.
00:18:34
Yeah, I don't think you needed to. And I'm not interested in that case because it's a one-off.
00:18:40
Did she, didn't she, pretty girl. There's all kinds of elements that I don't enjoy.
00:18:47
Well, you know what the biggest element is, is that the victim really has nothing to do with the whole story.
00:18:52
Yeah, they're completely forgotten. Yeah. That sucks. Like her foot, her crime scene photo with her foot sticking out of the blanket got more airtime than her face did.
00:19:02
And it's just like, I just don't like those stories. Right. Yeah. And it probably feels unsatisfying.
00:19:09
Yeah. And I mean, even though it sucks, the JonBenét Ramsey story, at least it's called the JonBenét Ramsey.
00:19:13
It's not called the Patsy and Jon Ramsey story. It's like about her. But this is about, it's called Amanda Knox, you know?
00:19:21
So I don't like that. Yeah. And so Georgia wrote back, I texted and said, do you want me to watch it so we can have a discussion about it?
00:19:28
And Georgia basically said, I didn't like it. So, and then I went, well, if you didn't like it,
00:19:31
I'm not gonna like it. And immediately tried to get out of my homework. And then I said, go ahead.
00:19:35
No, no, go ahead. I said, just watch a British procedural. And so I immediately downloaded
00:19:41
seasons one and two of Poldark. If you like- P-O-L-E. P-O-L-D-A-R-K. Poldark. That's his last name.
00:19:48
Oh. Ross Poldark. If you like bodice rippers combined with a mining, the politics of living in a mining
00:19:57
town. Oh, that's what my, that's my favorite topic. I mean, who wouldn't right there on the coast of England?
00:20:02
Yeah. Get. That's what I majored in. Get in there. I didn't go to college. Someone's going to write and be like, they're in Wales or whatever.
00:20:08
I don't fucking know. It was one big green mountain and I loved it. I watched every episode.
00:20:13
Oh, I like that. I'm never going to watch it. Perfect. Congratulations. All right, we're back.
00:20:23
Hi, you guys. We're back. This was, I must, I think I was a couple drinks in on this one.
00:20:28
I mean, perhaps. But whatever. Better than Adderall. I would love a poll of how many podcasters aren't drunk as they do.
00:20:36
They're always on chat shows. It'd be great to know. It's kind of necessary. I think just for like the chitty chattiness of it all.
00:20:43
I'm not a social butterfly. Well, and also there is a reason, and I don't know what it is, and I wonder if you do,
00:20:49
that they were saying that we were hysterical on the episode before. I know. I didn't notice. We were just excited. Maybe the moon was in
00:20:56
a place that makes you hysterical. Hysterical. I don't know what it is. I mean, I guess.
00:21:03
I guess I'm trying to get us to talk about other people's opinions. It's not our opinion.
00:21:08
If they're right, they're right. I'm not going to argue. It's from 2016. I will say this. At this time, I used to go to George's house. It would be like 730 at night. And I would drink her leftover coffee from that morning. And I would take a cup of her old coffee sitting in the coffee pot and I'd throw it in the microwave and I'd drink my nighttime coffee as you drank your nighttime bev. And we got through that episode.
00:21:33
Wow. Could have just been an imbalance of caffeine. Yeah. Or I had caffeine at night, which is always a bad idea for me.
00:21:40
Yeah. The historical significance of this episode is we first start talking about scream sneezing.
00:21:46
Yeah. And I don't think there's been a sneeze that's gone by since there that I didn't think about that and you bringing that up in this episode.
00:21:53
So it's kind of like become embedded. You admit you are one. I know. And I didn't realize it. Also, when anyone else does it now, I'm like, shit, there's oh, my God, like when Vince does it sometimes, you know.
00:22:04
Which you should. It's like the release of it. It's what it's kind of all about.
00:22:08
I'm a screamy honor. I know that for sure. Yeah. It's the thing. I feel like maybe it's easier to not be those things if you just scream all the time.
00:22:17
Just be a scream person. Keep that volume up. Just be a screamer. We always tell you guys.
00:22:23
Oh, did you see that thing about that some girl wrote up those rules, but Allison can't find them?
00:22:28
It's such a bummer because they're good. Yeah. Guys, can you find them? Or are you that girl? Please repost them. We want to see the rules.
00:22:35
Alyssa might not be into this podcast anymore, so maybe she has deleted her list of rules.
00:22:41
But if that's not the case, anything's possible in nine years. She found out that we didn't vote for Trump and she's like, forget it.
00:22:48
Bye, my research is over. All right. Well, this is a freaking heavy episode. Oh, God.
00:22:54
With a lot of big hitters and eyeball talk. Georgia is about to do her story, but it's back in 2016, about Charles Albright, one of the worst, the Texas eyeball killer.
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Data accurate as of 220-26. Should we murder time? Let's murder it up. I'm excited about mine.
00:25:18
Mine is usually three or four pages. Yeah. This one's six. I'm not going to take up all the time.
00:25:24
but there's just so much information. Do you want to jump right in? Yeah. Can I go first?
00:25:28
Do it. I think I'm first this time. Yeah. All right. And it's very important whether or not we know who's first.
00:25:33
Otherwise we just get so much hate mail. Yeah. That's not true either. All right.
00:25:39
Karen. Yes. I mentioned it last week. Are you ready for the Texas eyeball killer?
00:25:45
Oh, that's right. Yes, I am. Are you? Are you sure? Yeah, I really am. Okay. I've got my protective eyewear on.
00:25:53
Yeah. If people have, I was thinking about how a lot of people have eyeball like issues.
00:25:58
Yeah, they're gross. The eyeballs are gross and attacking eyeballs are gross. Attacking eyeballs is fucked.
00:26:04
Yeah. Like what is wrong with you? Yeah, don't worry. I don't get too into like the gory eyeball details, but there's a couple of things.
00:26:09
And he's called the fucking Texas eyeball killer. So he did some stuff that we need to really look into.
00:26:15
Yes. Okay. Are you ready for it? I think I am. Here we go. So on December 13th, 1990, in the Oak Cliff neighborhood of Dallas, Texas, the body of Mary Lou Pratt was found.
00:26:29
She was a 33-year-old well-known prostitute in the area. I don't know what well-known means.
00:26:34
It's like that everyone hang out. Was friends with her. Yeah. A sex worker, I think we're supposed to say.
00:26:39
Yeah. Sex worker. She was last seen in mid-December on a Dallas street corner trying to pick up clients.
00:26:46
and her body was found at 4.20 in the morning on a Dallas street, just on a street,
00:26:52
laying face up. She had a bra and t-shirt on. I saw the crime scene photo. Bad news.
00:26:57
Her shirt was pulled up. I mean, yeah. It's very bad news. She had been shot in the back of the head
00:27:05
with a .44 caliber gun. So the medical examiner said that the killer had removed both of her eyes
00:27:13
and taken them with him. Oh. I wish he hadn't done that. Yeah, man. Let's see here.
00:27:22
And they were removed post-mortem with such precision that there was no damage to the upper or lower lid.
00:27:30
And then it goes on to explain the intricacies of removing an eyeball and all the things, which I won't get into.
00:27:37
But it's complicated. It's not like, pluck. You don't pluck. No, no. My mom used to work in the ophthalmology department at Kaiser.
00:27:44
Oh, God, no. So I've not to in any way say because of that, I know anything about removing.
00:27:49
So you do it all the time then. But I think I've seen that poster of the like medical poster.
00:27:56
Right. More than I would have liked to. Right. Like what connects this to that? Yeah.
00:28:00
Well, he did that all without like fucking any of that up. That's okay. So clearly he has an understanding of medical.
00:28:06
It's very Jack the Ripper-y. Yes. But in 1990. Yeah. she also had blunt force injuries
00:28:13
but the cause of death was a gunshot wound so then in February on February 10th 1991
00:28:19
so just a couple months later in South Dallas outside the city limits Susan Peterson
00:28:25
who was also a sex worker was found dead so she was found dead, shot three times
00:28:32
and twice in the head and once in her boob breast I think I'm supposed to say and she also had her eyes removed
00:28:40
And what's weird is that he, the person closed the lids after he did it too. So they weren't found to have their eyes missing
00:28:48
until they got their autopsies. It's all intentional and it's all tricky and creepy.
00:28:53
Like what do you think your motive would be to take eyes? It's like seriously. Yeah, because it's not gouging out,
00:29:00
like don't look at me. No, stabby stab. Yeah, it's removal. Like I'll, as if it's evidence.
00:29:06
Like taking them. Yeah. Okay. So two months later, after Susan Peterson was found, the body of a 27-year-old woman was found in the same area.
00:29:17
Oh, wait, no. This is Susan Peterson. Sorry. She was found at 7.45 a.m. And she worked in the same neighborhood as the first woman.
00:29:29
And she was walking the streets looking for clients, found Ling face up with only a shirt on, pulled up over her breasts.
00:29:35
The same MO. Same exact way to find the woman. Yes. So then a month after the second victim was found
00:29:44
on March 18th, 1991, Shirley Williams, who was a 42-year-old woman working as a part-time sex worker in Dallas,
00:29:51
was found dead. And she was completely nude. She had facial bruises and a broken nose and had been shot in the face through the top of the head Stephen are you going to vomit You kind of like you kind of you moving in a way that
00:30:05
Eyeballs freak me out too. Do they? Do you want to go sit in the other room? No, no, I'll be okay.
00:30:09
Okay. Let me know if you need some air. Look, I kind of saw you weaving in the background.
00:30:15
Like, oh no. She had superficial injuries around the eyes and face and part of an X-Acto knife blade
00:30:22
was found in one of the wounds. But sorry, eye wound? No, no, no, no. Okay, okay, okay.
00:30:28
Fucking God. Oh, so she was stabbed hard enough that it broke off? What broke off?
00:30:33
No, yeah, I think he stabbed her and it broke off. Yeah, that's not good. Both eyes had been removed.
00:30:41
So then a pair of patrol officers cut to this. After the first three women had been found,
00:30:49
two cops remembered an incident from a few months prior. There was a woman named Veronica Rodriguez, also a sex worker, and she claimed she had been attacked and she claimed she had been taken into the woods and raped, then ran to a friend's house and he rescued her.
00:31:09
so the rescuer was a guy who was a truck driver named um Axton Schindler and um he said he was
00:31:19
only giving her a ride didn't know anything about the attack or the injuries super shady and weird
00:31:23
but the police questioned him and his address was 1035 El Dorado Street so they wondered if
00:31:34
the attacker was the eyeball killer and they decided to re-question Schindler to find out if
00:31:40
he had seen something. He was a weirdo himself. He like collected trash and stuff. So they discovered
00:31:46
that 1035 Eldorado wasn't actually his address. He'd put a fake address on the license out of
00:31:52
paranoia, but the property belonged to someone named Fred Albright, but he was dead. So a couple
00:32:00
months go by. They're trying to figure out who this fucking killer is. And then a deputy overhears
00:32:05
them talking about this whole situation of Schindler and Albright. And he remembers a phone call
00:32:10
weeks before with a woman who said that she was friends with one of the victims of the eyeball
00:32:15
killer. So she had been friends with Mary Lou Pratt, the first victim. And she said that the
00:32:23
victim had once dated a man named Charles Albright. And the reason that stuck out to her was that he
00:32:29
had a weird obsession with eyes and kept exacto knife blades in his attic. In his what? Attic?
00:32:36
Attic. I always say addict. But you mean the room above your house? Attic. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I don't
00:32:42
know why I do that. Okay. I just want to make sure. No, you're addict. That's what I fucking
00:32:47
kept it in his attic, his friend who was an addict. Did you hold these for me? Okay, man.
00:32:51
he did him and I got some real good government coke so Charles this fucking addict
00:32:59
dude was the son of the guy who owned that home so Fred Albright's son and he had inherited that location
00:33:06
so let's talk about Charles Albright he was born in Amarillo Texas and he was adopted from an orphanage
00:33:14
by Del and Fred Albright his mother was kind of loco loco? Can we get that out? Who the fuck am I?
00:33:23
Kind of crazy. Loco. Never said that before. We're just trying to change it up a little bit.
00:33:27
I don't know. His adaptive mom was a school teacher and she was super strict and overprotected.
00:33:35
Overprotective. She made him study a lot and he ended up skipping two grades because he was so fucking smart.
00:33:42
And she pampered him like crazy. She kept goats in the backyard so he could drink goat's milk, which she said was better for him than cow's milk.
00:33:50
Um, she occasionally put him in little girls dresses and gave him a doll to hold.
00:33:55
She would change his clothes a couple of times a day to keep dirt off of him. So loco.
00:34:00
She was loco. She was straight up. Yeah. And he, she was afraid that he might touch dog feces and get polio.
00:34:07
So she took him to the hospital to see the polio patients locked in huge iron lungs.
00:34:12
What? That doesn't keep you from touching. No. And dog feces isn't where you fucking get polio, bro.
00:34:17
It's the air. like it's just the air you know that's so awful but can you but this is the thing my brain always
00:34:26
flashes to can you imagine a parent today yeah taking their child to witness something yeah
00:34:31
exactly don't touch the stove look at all these people who have been have third degree burn however
00:34:36
i think my aunt one time my cousin he was little lit the fucking kitchen on fire because he was
00:34:42
doing that thing with matches where you flick them after you light them yes lit the whole kitchen on
00:34:47
fire. This is in the 70s, so he was not being watched. Of course. And it was his fault for playing with matches, not their fault
00:34:52
for not... Leaving them around. For leaving them around. Or smoking 24 hours a day. Right. And I think that
00:34:56
they took him to the burn ward to be like, this is what fucking happens when you play with matches.
00:35:01
And how was he after that? He's fine now. He was kind of mean to me when we were little. The kind of sadistic,
00:35:09
the mean. Before or after the burn ward visit? After. Yeah. So he's still working some stuff out. Yeah. But he's like
00:35:17
fine now. I mean, I think you need to trust your children better that you don't have to traumatize
00:35:22
them to get the lesson through their head. I think you should teach them not to fucking play
00:35:26
with fire to begin with. I mean, I just remember when I lit the bed on fire, my mom screams were
00:35:31
enough to keep me from ever doing it again. Yeah. That's the secret. Because she looked at me like,
00:35:35
what the hell is wrong with you? And I was like, I don't know. Yeah. You have an excuse for being,
00:35:40
like, I hate when you do something, you're like, this is something a stupid person would do.
00:35:44
Yeah. I have no, like, am I a stupid person? My thing was like, can you please just pay attention to me?
00:35:49
Like, I just, I'm really fun. Yeah. I think of great stuff. Get off the phone. Get off the motherfucking phone Hang up that long corded what was it fucking Marigold Or was it Yes it was Marigold I swear to God Cause that the entire seventies was Marigold It really was
00:36:06
So she would take him to the polio to look at the polio patients and those poor polio patients
00:36:11
are like, fuck you. Don't use me an example. I didn't touch dog shit. The idea. Yeah, really.
00:36:15
I never touched. Don't put that on me. The idea of being in an iron lung where just your head is
00:36:21
sticking out. It's such a goddamn nightmare. For months. Horrible. Oh, those poor babies.
00:36:26
Yeah. And then she said to him, you can spend the rest of your life here. She would tell him,
00:36:32
but she was, it's from what I read, she was very protective and loving of him in a way because she
00:36:38
wanted him to know that she was never going to abandon him and that she loved him. Like,
00:36:42
it doesn't seem like she was, I know. I don't think she was abusive, but she was,
00:36:46
intentions were good. Yeah. She was overbearing and didn't really understand how to parent.
00:36:51
Yeah, she was letting her neuroses take priority over his well-being. And it sounds like she had a lot of neuroses aside from what she did to her kid.
00:36:59
But she doesn't sound like a bad person. She just wasn't. She was scared. I think she had a little bit of a mental illness.
00:37:05
Yeah. Oh, well, however, the next line says, when he was less than a year old, she put him in a dark room as punishment for chewing on her tape measure.
00:37:14
Man, Elvis chews on my tape measure all the time. No dark rooms for babies, everybody.
00:37:19
I think we've agreed that in 2017. You know what's scary when you're a kid? The dark room.
00:37:24
You know what's scary when you're an adult? A dark room. Don't do it. Also, you know what's scary?
00:37:29
I just said it was 2017. You know what's scary is I didn't even fucking notice. Is it?
00:37:37
No, not yet. Let's hold this episode until 2017 so we sound normal. This one goes in the vault like Disney style.
00:37:45
I keep reading more awful stuff that makes me take back everything I just said. When he wouldn't take a nap, she would tie him to the bed.
00:37:53
She was abusive. When he wouldn't drink his milk, she would spank him. She would make him drink goat's milk.
00:37:59
Ew. I've never had goat's milk. No, I haven't. And I'd like to take an aside right now and say that everyone listening, spanking is abuse.
00:38:09
Don't fucking spank your kids. Oh, man. Karen? That's why I don't have kids. Then the problem never even comes up.
00:38:17
Should I? Shouldn't I? Nope. I should go to the movies by myself. That's what I should do.
00:38:22
You know what's great is being an aunt and getting to go away after. That's right.
00:38:26
And then they have to take care of you when you're old. That's what I figured out recently.
00:38:30
It's pretty great. Oh, and then she lectured him about the way his father, the father acted greedy with sex.
00:38:39
Oh no, as a child? She told him that whenever the dad saw her in the bedroom in her bra and underwear,
00:38:45
he tried to grab her. she was going to have none of that and she was going to make sure that
00:38:51
Charlie never tried anything like that with his girlfriends either and he he rolled her, she chauffeured them
00:38:59
every time they went on a date, she would call the girl's parents, let them know that her son would not
00:39:03
do anything untoward but that was the 50s too so I don't know so she was on pills, she was on vacuum pills
00:39:11
I bet she had an amazing, cut an amazing figure because she just didn't eat She wore four girdles and she was super high on speed.
00:39:20
She ate a triangle toast every morning. And the tomatoes and cottage cheese. Tomato and cottage cheese.
00:39:25
Lady. Tomato and cottage cheese. I mean, okay. Says so much about life. Yeah. So for some reason he got his first gun as a teenager and he'd kill small animals with it.
00:39:36
But his mom would help him stuff them due to his interest in becoming a taxidermist.
00:39:40
This guy had no chance. No, he got super into fucking taxidermy. but his mom was super cheap and weird and like wouldn't spend any money on anything
00:39:49
so instead of spending the money on the glass eyes that one would buy for taxidermied birds and
00:39:55
squirrels and shit she was like we don't need to do that so instead they would get two dark buttons
00:40:01
and so people come over and look at their taxidermy and it'd be this it's like that's that
00:40:05
movie um Coraline Coraline so I wonder who the eyeball killer is right now are we gonna
00:40:11
Go ahead and make a guess. I mean, this is like all arrows pointing to, what's his name, Dan?
00:40:17
His name, Dan? No, it's Charles Albright. Charles. Danny. Chuck. Chuck Danny Albright, we'll call him.
00:40:23
Chuck Danny, you never had a goddamn chance. Poor baby. But it seemed like he, so all of these like Wikipedia articles
00:40:30
and these other things just make him seem like a crazy, you know, like a gross drifter, like killer.
00:40:37
But this other article I read, it was just like he was a he was very very fucking intelligent um but at age 13 he was a
00:40:44
he's a petty theft whatever I agree with salt he um graduated from high school at age 15 because
00:40:51
he was so fucking smart and then he went to the North Texas University he wanted to train as a
00:40:56
medical doctor and a surgeon um he wanted to train as a surgeon yeah yeah and at 16 the police caught
00:41:03
him with some stolen petty cash. He spent a year in jail at 16. And then he went back to school,
00:41:12
majored in pre-med studies, but was found with stolen items again and was expelled,
00:41:17
but not prosecuted. So he had a compulsion control problem. What's that called? Compulsion control.
00:41:26
He made it up. That's what it's called from now on. I think so. Impulse control.
00:41:30
Impulse control. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dig it. And so he got kicked out of school. So he did what everyone else would do,
00:41:38
which is that he gave himself a fictitious bachelor's and master's degree. He forged himself.
00:41:44
Problem solved. I mean, he knows everything anyway. I mean, it sounds like it. Yeah.
00:41:49
He's like, so it turns out I'm an eye doctor. Yep, here you go. Here's my forged shit.
00:41:54
But he had like done it by breaking into like the fucking head of the college office and like using the right typewriter and everything So it all looked like he was very conniving So he got a master in
00:42:05
forgery. I mean, if you, at that point you can do that, you deserve it. Yeah. You deserve something,
00:42:11
you know? Yeah. Fuck you. I don't know. Society, man. Yeah, man. College. I think I have a thing
00:42:18
against college because I never went and I hate you at college. Okay. Me too. But somehow he
00:42:24
married his college girlfriend. I don't know, man. Some women just fucking... Well, come on.
00:42:28
Danger? Chuck Danger? Yeah. You gotta get near that shit. She's bored of all these dumb college students
00:42:33
at Arkansas State Teachers College. She's like, yawn a clock. Yes. He's dangerous.
00:42:39
He's not grabby. Yeah. He's not afraid of the dark anymore. He doesn't grab her when she's in her underwear in Berwa.
00:42:44
He loves buttons. Oh, great. He's got a master's in... He's got a master's and a bachelor's.
00:42:50
Turns out. They got married. They had a kid. and he started teaching high school science.
00:42:56
There's a photo of him and like a school photo. Okay, so this guy, he seems like this criminal.
00:43:01
He's this normal fucking smart guy with friends that goes to church that is like everyone likes,
00:43:08
no one can believe it. One of those guys. He's not like a gross, like his fucking mugshot's creepy,
00:43:13
but he wasn't like that. He had a life. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, he says he had a Pied Piper-like ability
00:43:20
to captivate people. and he so um in 1965 he and his wife separated and because he got caught stealing again
00:43:31
and he served less than six months he loved to steal he loved he had a compulsion to steal
00:43:37
maybe just to see if he can get away with it and also like we Stephen and I were talking before the
00:43:41
show started about stealing there's something to it too where you just like when you have that thing
00:43:46
like I need this yeah like you rationalize needing something I used to steal a lot and it was like
00:43:51
it was like it was like a fuck you. I never stole from like people or. Did you steal from like CVS? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That's like the teen girls. Yeah.
00:44:03
Rite of passage. And I was poor and didn't have money and like to have enough for things that
00:44:08
like everyone else got to have. And I felt like justified. Yeah. Yeah. I felt justified and like
00:44:13
fuck you, everyone. I want this too. I will have three wet and wild lipsticks. yes
00:44:18
yeah fucking that crazy pink that I'd then wear to raves yes that lip liner that's so long
00:44:24
it'll last you like seven years yes and doesn't fit in any purse the like maroon one
00:44:28
and the the irony there is that wet and wild makeup is so cheap and yet that's the one
00:44:33
that everyone steals I know so funny but then you're like well you paid three cents
00:44:37
to make this with fucking slave labor yeah so give me mine give me mine don't steal
00:44:42
don't do drugs don't steal don't do drugs we used to do pink there would be a pink lipstick, but then you took frosty white eyeshadow and put it on your lips
00:44:53
while the gloss was still wet. And so you had the frostiest pink lipstick of all time.
00:44:58
Frosty pink lipstick was fucking in. 84, baby. Yes. All right. Anyway. Love it. Sidebar. Sidebar nation.
00:45:06
um okay but so he so everyone loved him he everyone all the neighbors trusted him here's a funny thing he
00:45:20
was asked by local residents to babysit their children sorry well he was but his whole act
00:45:27
was working aside from being a big stealer i'm sorry is who the fuck lets grown men babysit their
00:45:32
Oh, yeah. No, that's my problem. And also, this was not long ago. This wasn't like Albert
00:45:37
Fish time. You're like, yeah, let the old. Yeah. Well, this is like recent 81. We're like all of
00:45:42
that. Hadn't they didn't believe the children still. And you're like, my uncle fucking touched
00:45:46
me. They're like, shut the fuck up. How dare you? Yeah. It was all burbling to the surface.
00:45:51
Yeah. I think I think towards the end of the 80s is when they were like, oh, shit, don't leave
00:45:55
your kid alone with a grown man. Yeah. Don't don't don't accept help from a grown man who wants to
00:46:01
help you with your kids. Yeah. He doesn't, he's not being a nice guy. He's, and also grown men,
00:46:07
if you're not a molester, don't try to fucking babysit kids. Yeah. Find another outlet,
00:46:11
ride horses or something. I don't know. They'll find someone else. Don't you have a fantasy
00:46:16
something team that you need to maintain? Watch the dogs. Fine. Even the cats. Don't
00:46:22
offer to watch the children. Just get a bunch of dogs. Yeah. We've solved it. Done. Done.
00:46:29
look at us legislation corner with Karen and Georgia so easy let's see oh but then guess what
00:46:36
in 1981 while visiting some friends he sexually molested their nine-year-old daughter
00:46:42
oh no and this is when his whole facade started to crumble oh he was prosecuted and pled guilty
00:46:48
but he and received I'm sorry what did he receive for this fucking what probation
00:46:52
but he said that he said he said he pled guilty because he didn't want it to become a big thing
00:46:58
He wanted to kind of keep it a secret so no one knew about it because he, but he quote
00:47:03
didn't do it, but he still pled guilty to it. Whatever. Okay. At this point, he falls in love with a woman named Dixie and then he starts, he takes a
00:47:10
paper route in the early morning and it turns out it's so he could visit prostitutes without
00:47:14
raising his wife's suspicions, his new wife. Yeah. Adult paper routes are suspicious as fuck.
00:47:20
Yeah. Get a fucking telemarketing job, bro. So we're back to this woman being like, yeah, my friend who died, Mary Lou Pratt, was friends with Charles and he was into fucking eyeballs.
00:47:36
Not fucking, but it was eyeballs and stuff. Yeah. And there's proof that he was friends with her way before she became a fucking sex worker.
00:47:45
In the early 80s, Mary lived in South Dallas neighborhood where Albright's parents had invested in cheap rental property.
00:47:53
and he was living in one of the rental homes, and he had a brief fling with one of Mary's friends
00:48:00
and had brought them over to the house for parties. So they knew each other already.
00:48:04
And then when she started to become a sex worker, he became one of her customers.
00:48:12
And she said that old man Albright was a good trick, willing to pay a little more than the going rate.
00:48:18
But he's claiming from jail now. I just spoiled the whole thing. He's claiming that he didn't even visit prostitutes.
00:48:24
I mean, why would he admit that? Yeah. So I think she was his first kind of foray into sex work.
00:48:33
Yeah. Says he would pick them up, talk to them, take them to get a hamburger and drop them back off.
00:48:39
That sounds like a perfect date. Yeah. Sorry. What's he paying for there besides hamburgers?
00:48:45
I don't know. But I think eventually he started to do it. Okay. So, beep, boop, bop.
00:48:51
Let's see. Okay. okay, on March 22nd, 91, he's arrested and charged with three counts of murder.
00:48:58
Oh, bless you. That's how you do it. That was, okay. I get it. I get it. No, I fucking get it.
00:49:04
How is it the first time either of us have sneezed on this podcast? I know, it really is.
00:49:08
In 38 episodes. Especially a fucking closed room full of cats. I know. And I don't, I'm going to be honest,
00:49:15
I don't fucking vacuum that couch much. So. All right, sorry, go ahead. No, that was an amazing sneeze.
00:49:20
let's see so but eventually he was known by several sex workers he was violent towards them
00:49:30
so that was a growing thing when it started out he was all hamburgers and cute and then it basically he got comfortable
00:49:36
yeah and started to be able to do whatever he wanted to do one said that he beat her with an extension
00:49:42
cord or a belt to achieve orgasm another told a reporter that he would another told her that he would kill her if she tried to take advantage of him.
00:49:54
And he and also he was known to have an abnormal obsession with eyes. And he would remove eyes from dolls and photographs.
00:50:03
Fucking fuck, man. Yeah. Like get another MO because if you have this thing in your daily life,
00:50:08
it's like you're the bicycle killer and you're obsessed with bicycles. Like become the skateboard killer instead.
00:50:13
You know? Change it up so the cops won't find you immediately. Yeah. Yeah. It's like, come on.
00:50:18
He can. It's his obsession. It's like Stephen with the Britney Spears movie. He just can't stop thinking about it.
00:50:26
Every moment of every day. Yeah, he's like, oops, I did it again. Thought about it.
00:50:33
That wasn't that funny, was it? Well, it was to me. I appreciate that, Karen. That's why we're partners.
00:50:38
I don't fake laugh at you. I know you don't, and I love it. And when you laugh at me, it's always, I'm always,
00:50:43
it's like, it's like you're scream sneezing. So I'm like, what? I'm always surprised.
00:50:47
Because you're shocked. pleasantly shocked okay so alright so here's okay so the reason
00:50:54
I found this whole murder is because on crack.com my favorite late night fucking read the best website crack.com
00:51:02
dude there was one one list called five suspicious details of famous crimes no one can explain
00:51:09
I'm sorry I would read that for hours yeah make that list 500 please and I am there
00:51:16
there so the weird thing about this case is that this fucking this dude from the beginning if you'll
00:51:22
remember um what i can't remember is axed on axden the truck driver shindler the truck driver
00:51:29
they were like well what's his connection he his driver's license had the address
00:51:35
of the killer's father how does that make any sense this guy must have been part of it or known
00:51:41
no fucking connection at all what he just happened to live in a rental property that was owned by the
00:51:47
killer so there's no connection he just the the guy who picked up the truck driver who picked up
00:51:54
this woman who had been beaten up and gave her right home i don't believe it i know but it's
00:51:59
true pretty sure like he just is clean on the deal even though he knows the parent of the killer
00:52:08
or the attempted killer. He happened to live in a rental property that was owned by the Albright's
00:52:14
and he happened to use another of their addresses as his fake address. And he just happened to be there at the time
00:52:21
to pick up one of his would-be victims. I'm sorry, three happen-to-bes in one man's life
00:52:26
adds up to a whole bunch of year full of shit. Write that shit down, man. Come on, it's just coming out of my mouth.
00:52:33
So the cops interrogated him for hours thinking there had to be a connection, not a single witness had ever seen him before
00:52:40
and there was no physical evidence that he had even ever been at the crime scenes
00:52:44
or knew about Albright's murderous hobby at all. In general, he seemed to- This is Schindler you're talking about.
00:52:48
Yeah. Okay. He seemed to have no idea what was going on. He helped a woman in need
00:52:53
and that's all he fucking knew about. That's crazy. Yeah, but now, okay. So wait, let me-
00:53:00
Also, aren't you a little suspicious of cross-country truck drivers because of so many terrible forensic files
00:53:06
where it's like, They have murder barns all across the Midwest. You're going into a small, like if you're, you know, a sex worker, you're going to a small
00:53:15
enclosed place that they know where things, I mean, no. Yeah. I know. But he's, he's innocent.
00:53:22
Yeah. Well, yes. Okay. All right. Well, let's go back to the trial after all, after Charles Albright gets arrested.
00:53:31
December 13th, 1991. Like, doesn't this seem like an old timey crime, like from the seventies?
00:53:36
A complete, aren't you picturing like... When you said 1990, I was genuinely shocked. I know.
00:53:40
Aren't you thinking of like old fucking Cadillac Savills and shit? Yes. Yeah. Totally. 91, which I guess
00:53:47
is a long time ago for 12-year-olds whose moms let them listen to this fucking podcast.
00:53:51
Hi. Hi. So the evidence was that eight hairs that match Shirley Williams one of the victims was found in Albright vacuum cleaner Okay that not good That just a That kind of cool right
00:54:05
But who had the job of going through the vacuum? Did that really happen? Or did they just like, put some fucking...
00:54:11
I mean, we cannot know. But that's like a forensic job. That's what you're signing up for.
00:54:16
Yeah, dude. There's people who are listening who might know the answer to that. That's true.
00:54:20
Maybe they've done it before. Yeah, that's right. Email us. They got a pair of tweezers,
00:54:23
some old Revlons from CVS that they shoplifted and they're just going through that dust bag
00:54:28
molecule by molecule it's only because their boss doesn't like them that they got that job
00:54:34
that's the shit job they mouthed off at lunch yeah man that's the shit job they drank too much at the fucking company picnic
00:54:40
and called somebody a fat bastard oh really well you'll be picking through the vacuum cleaner bag
00:54:45
this week done hill damn it shit I did it again okay um we could just that could be forever whole forever all right and then three pubic hairs
00:54:57
from a blanket at shirley williams murder scene were matched to albright they also found hay found
00:55:05
hair on a yellow raincoat that matched his hair that was near one of the bodies can i should i
00:55:10
mention at this moment that about hair yes well that's what i was totally thinking too is i think
00:55:16
in like the first episode, I had read the news story that they've proven that that's not a thing
00:55:22
anymore. Conclusive, right? Yeah. Which I just find kind of hard to believe. I find maybe not as
00:55:28
conclusive as they originally thought. Right. That hair evidence and fiber evidence. Like if you find
00:55:35
a purple fiber on the body of a dead person and the person that you think is the suspect because
00:55:42
of connections also has a purple carpet. Like you can't just convict them on the purple carpet,
00:55:47
but if there's other connection. Right. If it's one piece of many that are all fitting together,
00:55:52
but then that all speaks to like, when you're looking for patterns, will you see those patterns?
00:55:58
And the other fucking, the other part of that is, do you have a good prosecuting attorney and do
00:56:02
you have a shitty defense attorney? Right. You know what I mean? Yes. Man. Yeah. So then three
00:56:08
hairs from the head of Susan Peterson were found on a blanket in Albright's truck. So all three of
00:56:14
them had hair that were connected to him. Yeah. That's when you're like, okay. Yeah. Yeah. So
00:56:19
December 18th, 91, the jury found him guilty, received a sentence of five years to life,
00:56:27
but only for the murder of Shirley Williams. It's the only one he got convicted on.
00:56:30
Five years. Five to life. Who are we? Where are we? What's happening? I mean, why naturally isn't that 15 to life?
00:56:37
I don't know. Five. Five. How old was he? Do you know? Like, was he older? I think he was in his 50s.
00:56:43
Okay. No, not old enough that like, and the other thing is everyone's like, he's going to be in there for 15 years.
00:56:47
And it's like, my dad is fucking 71. That's not that old anymore. Right. And also he killed people.
00:56:53
He murdered people. He murdered innocent people who didn't deserve to die. No. He got, well, he got fucking proby on a fucking molestation.
00:57:02
Proby, do people call it that? I don't know. I bet you anything. I bet you that's police lingo.
00:57:08
Proby. For probation? Yes. I'm going to fucking, doesn't it sound like it should be?
00:57:13
Yes, for sure. Proby. Proby. We're definitely calling it that from now on. Co-ops email us.
00:57:20
So he's at the Clemens unit of the Texas Department of Corrections in Amarillo. And he's a motherfucking piece of shit.
00:57:29
But he's saying from prison that he's like, he will not admit to any of it he's blaming fucking schindler and saying it's him oh interesting yeah
00:57:39
and i love but there's just no action there's no evidence everything about like the the woman who
00:57:46
rodriguez who said he she attacked him another woman who uh knew him everyone saw a photo line
00:57:55
up and picked him like it's fucking him and he grew up obsessed with eyes yeah and he has he was
00:58:02
trained as a, he was like medical student surgeon. Like what's more of a coincidence that this dude
00:58:09
used to live in this guy's house and put another one of his addresses down or, and that he'd killed
00:58:16
it or killed them or that this fucking eyeball obsessed fucking overbearing pedophile mother,
00:58:22
overbearing crazy mom who dress him up in women's clothes. Not to say that there's anything wrong
00:58:27
with boys dressing up in women's clothes. As long as they're doing it themselves. Exactly.
00:58:31
You get to do it. Yeah. It's all about choice. Yes. As many things are. Yes. But also, he's a proven, repeated, and seemingly remorseless criminal.
00:58:43
And he is, what do they call that? It's getting worse as the years go by. Each crime gets a little worse.
00:58:49
Then he becomes a, he's a child molester. He seems like he feels like he's entitled.
00:58:53
Yes. Like I did when I used to shoplift. But I'm better now. Well, but also you didn't.
00:58:58
I would never fucking shoplift now. Your crimes never escalated. The thought of shoplifting now horrifies me.
00:59:05
The thought of I did that when I was, I'm not like, eh, it's a shoplifting. I'm so embarrassed about that time.
00:59:11
Right, because now you know the, I was going to say side effects. I have a moral compass now.
00:59:17
Yes, exactly. And it actually affects other people. We're talking about a person
00:59:20
who's probably a sociopath or more. But the idea, I mean, I have to say, and I hate to sound this way.
00:59:27
I don't hate to sound this way. I am this way. The idea that he removed eyes, that there was an additional thing to his straight
00:59:35
up murders that you would... It's very common of these serial killers to kill sex workers and in
00:59:41
their mind have this pseudo kind of righteous, almost religious thing about as if they're
00:59:48
cleaning up the streets or something like that. This extra detail of taking eyes and closing
00:59:54
eyelids is so morbidly fascinating to me You know what really weird about it too if you think about it is that these women were killed pretty brutally They were beat up They were stripped of their clothes They were raped They were shot
01:00:05
Yet he carefully, systematically removed... He didn't gouge their eyes out and fucking take them and run away.
01:00:13
You had to do that probably slowly and carefully and with the right tools. Yes. So it wasn't a fit of crazy rage that he just went into.
01:00:21
Also, and nobody wants to think about this, But if you just for one second think about how insanely hideous it would be to remove someone's eyes.
01:00:29
Yeah. And I mean, what did he do with them? Where did he put them? They never found them.
01:00:34
They never found anything? Not his eyes. Not their eyes. What if there's like a rental space somewhere?
01:00:43
There's got to be so much shit. There's just six jars of eyes staring out at you.
01:00:48
I always wonder. Wasn't there like a... the reality show where they bid on blind lots where they would buy a rental space.
01:00:56
Storage unit? Storage wars. What if you fucking, there's an episode of Storage Wars.
01:01:01
They throw open a door. Eyeballs. Just fucking six eyeballs staring out. I'll pay a thousand.
01:01:06
Can I start the bid at a thousand? Please. That was good. That's an eyeball killer, man.
01:01:13
That's good. I didn't even really know much about that. I think you cracked. I knew nothing except for when you mentioned it and immediately assumed it was like the torso killer in Ohio, like 30s style old fashioned murderer.
01:01:26
Yeah, because it feels like old timey. And the other thing is that about this guy that is suspicious is that he was this child molester, this criminal, this like fucking great, you know, and yet he had this charming, normal life.
01:01:41
It wasn't like he was living, you know, off the grid and as a like drifter. No, he had the mask on tight.
01:01:46
He maintained, man. Yeah. And you know, there's all these comments of people, the normal comments of, I can't believe
01:01:52
it. Not him. No way. It's amazing. He was such a nice guy. You know, and then this family is like, he molested our daughter.
01:01:59
Yeah. Shocked. Crazy. That's some fucked up shit, man. He was a scream sneeze of a human being.
01:02:06
That's what he was. Oh my God. I just scared Mimi so bad. I just scream laughed.
01:02:12
I'm sorry, Mimi. Oh my God. She's lost her mind. She'll be all right. Mimi seems fragile.
01:02:17
She's very. She's like, please. She was found in a dumpster. And we are back. What a horrible story.
01:02:26
Georgia, any updates on this one? Yeah, actually. One of the officers who worked on the eyeball killer case was a rookie named Regina Smith.
01:02:35
Now a retired lieutenant, she told A&E True Crime that the thing that stuck with her the most about the case was getting the family's closure and finding the eyeballs.
01:02:44
After she retired, she reached out to Albright in prison for answers, which is bold and brave.
01:02:50
Yeah. He agreed to Sierra, but was in hospice and visitors were not allowed. So she did not get an answer because Charles Albright died in prison in 2020 at the age of 87.
01:03:01
Ugh. Yeah. All right. How about an equally awful story? A big one, too. This is Karen's story about co-ed killer Ed Kemper.
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Data accurate as of 220-26. All right, well, should I do mine? No. I mean I'm gonna blaze through this
01:05:07
because here's the thing did I take too long? no no no no I loved it it was so good
01:05:11
should I do mine? that's what this podcast is I didn't mean it first of all mine is
01:05:17
a heavy hitter and I feel like a lot of people know this one I definitely a lot of people
01:05:23
have written to us and requested that we do this guy did it rain all over your parade?
01:05:28
no no no take your fucking time man it's Edmund Kemper the co-ed killer yeah It's the man who was six foot nine, Stephen.
01:05:38
Six foot nine. That in and of itself is scary and intimidating. So intimidating.
01:05:43
Sorry to all you super tall guys out there. But it is. And when you see video of Edmund Kemper walking with cops.
01:05:50
Is he a big guy too? Like not just like a tall skinny or is he big? I mean, he's not humongous.
01:05:54
Yeah. He is proportionate But when he walks through doorways he has to duck He that tall 6 is out of control And to imagine that on top of that
01:06:05
he's a psychotic, paranoid, schizophrenic, psychopathic killer. It's so upsetting.
01:06:12
Do you think he went crazy because people kept asking him if he plays basketball?
01:06:17
I always wonder that about tall people how fucking sick of that they are. They're so sick of it.
01:06:20
And also it's like people expect them to be good and then when they're not, they get like bullied.
01:06:24
I don't fucking play basketball. I don't even like basketball. I'm not, I love golf.
01:06:28
Did you play basketball, man? Dude, you must love basketball. No, fuck you. All right.
01:06:34
So just to briefly, also I don't like doing these ones because I don't like to talk about
01:06:39
the serial killer themselves like they're a star. I fucking hate that. Like knowing their whole life
01:06:43
when really it's like, fuck you, this one woman that you murdered's life is way more important
01:06:47
than your whole life. Right. Well, and also you rendered your own life like a shitty,
01:06:52
a shitty factoid list because of the actions that you acted out in that life. And you made them obvious in this fucking example
01:07:01
of what serial killers are like. Yeah, but it's not impressive to me. And also when you see this person interviewed,
01:07:09
to me all I think is what a waste because he was really smart. He was a big giant that was also a genius.
01:07:15
No one ever knew he was a genius because he had a terrible mother, which is kind of sometimes a theme on this show.
01:07:23
Um, another abusive, like obsessive, uh, controlling dominant mother who was impossible to please.
01:07:32
And, um, yes, all dominant mothers. I mean, so let's see. It just basically goes like this.
01:07:41
He was born in Burbank, California. What? Are you fucking serious? Yeah. That's where I live.
01:07:46
That's down the street. No, that's crazy. I didn't know that. He, his parents had a bad marriage.
01:07:52
they divorced when Ed was nine and his mother moved him to Helena, Montana and there
01:07:59
all he wanted was a father and instead this one article said he had a string, a subsequent
01:08:06
string of stepfathers but then when I looked into it it seemed like his mother only got remarried one other time
01:08:12
she probably just dated them? she probably dated and also I think the evil mother
01:08:18
kind of recurring theme is a thing that people very easily can kind of fill in the blank. She got married all the time.
01:08:26
She was an old bitchy slut. It's like, to me, that's what kept coming out was like, well, what if she
01:08:32
was, what if he was a six foot nine monster that she had to control and didn't know what to do?
01:08:37
It comes me out that they blame it on like the mom who stayed and raised him and not the daddy.
01:08:42
The single mom. Yeah. But I mean, who knows? Who knows the details? I just feel like there's always this little bit of that
01:08:50
where it's like, okay, she was mean and domineering, but now she married a bunch of people.
01:08:54
Yeah. Whatever. And marrying a bunch of people is like, oh, you're a fucking shitty mom and a slut.
01:09:00
Well, maybe just go in love. Let's just put it out there. Maybe not. Maybe not. So, but he, in his like early teens,
01:09:09
he starts to display his antisocial personality traits. So him and his sister, this made me laugh.
01:09:15
And I was watching this really good British series series that you can find on YouTube.
01:09:20
Like any killer you want, there will be this British series that comes up and they just give you tons of information
01:09:25
and really good facts. I have no idea what the title is. I knew you were going to say that.
01:09:31
No idea. I'll tell you next week. It'll be like a fun surprise. Yeah. It's like crime and evidence.
01:09:38
Stuff. British accent. And it's also not on BBC. It's not on anything I would recognize.
01:09:43
Yeah. It's almost like an independent... All the people in England right now are like giving me all kinds of two fingers up in the air.
01:09:50
Yeah. For not knowing this. Yeah. Oy. So, but if you look up Eben Kemper, it's the first documentary series on him on YouTube.
01:09:59
It's called Crimes and Stuff and British. Crimes and crumpets. And British accents.
01:10:05
Yeah. So him and his sister would play a game called Gas Chamber, where his sister would throw pellets into his room
01:10:12
and then close the door. and he would pretend he was dying of asphyxiation. Oh, that sounds normal.
01:10:19
That's, it made me laugh so hard. Because I was, and then it was like a bunch of stuff of like,
01:10:24
then he would make his sister's dolls have sex. And I was like, yeah, standard fare.
01:10:28
I did that. Everybody did that. I stole my brother's GI Joes and they would totally bone Barbie.
01:10:33
Yes, that's what dolls are for. It's all like, get them in that dream house. Yeah.
01:10:37
And get to fucking. And then you just smash them together and they're boning. And you have no idea what or why.
01:10:43
Smash. You just know that it's exciting that they're in the same bed. They're on a little plastic bed together.
01:10:47
Sex is like that now. Smash. So, but here's where it all was very different than most of our childhoods.
01:10:55
He told his sister in grammar school that he had a crush on his teacher. And when he said he wanted to kiss his teacher, his sister said, why don't you?
01:11:04
And he said, because I'd have to kill her first. So the sister's like, I'm going to go get a glass of juice.
01:11:13
And like slowly crab walks out of the room. Crab walks. Okay, and I'll be right back.
01:11:19
I just love the idea of getting on the ground and crab walking instead of just like backing out of the room.
01:11:24
No, she had to go out sideways with all her eyes looking at him. All her crab eyes.
01:11:29
So. Breaking down. His mother, when he was a little bit older, made him live in the basement because she was afraid
01:11:35
that he would molest his sisters. So yeah, it was dark and bad. Oh, that's weird.
01:11:41
It also was believed that that mother suffered from borderline personality disorder, which explains the rages and the abuse.
01:11:47
Oh, honey. So that's, you know, fair's fair. We're going to say all this stuff about her.
01:11:52
But then also. Everyone sucks all around. I mean, here's the thing. Untreated mental illness affects people terribly and in a ripple.
01:12:00
effect. Totally. That isn't just the person who isn't taking their medicine or the person who can't afford their medicine.
01:12:05
I also see my therapy sessions every week of me going through shit. Yeah. Mental health is very important. So important.
01:12:14
And my mother was a psychiatric nurse and in the 80s when Proposition 13 closed down all the
01:12:19
mental hospitals. Oh, that's the worst thing that ever happened. She would rant and rave every night
01:12:24
about how terrible the future is going to be for people who needed help and wouldn't be able to get it. Also see the
01:12:29
fucking insane amount of homeless people we have in this country right because we they don't have
01:12:34
easy access to fucking mental health services and they need help and yeah and basically the state
01:12:41
has gone to that all right nope let's i want to keep talking about back to ed my mother would you
01:12:47
know what that would be like her dream if i want to talk about this all the time honestly um so when
01:12:55
he was 15, his mother sent him to live with his father in LA who, and his father had a new wife
01:13:00
and stepson. And so he lasted a month there. And then his father sent him to live with his
01:13:06
grandparents who were the father's parents on a 17 acre farm in North Fork, California,
01:13:11
which is nice. It actually is. It butts up right against the Sierras right near Yosemite.
01:13:19
I was going to say how awful it is to send your kid away to someone, but that sounds fucking
01:13:22
like a nice vacation. Pretty nice. And also like if you have a kid that's troubled,
01:13:26
quote unquote, put him to work. Send him to a farm, get him out there, right? Teach him some
01:13:30
fucking responsibility. Well, turned out that the grandmother was also domineering.
01:13:35
And the grandfather had early stages of dementia. Oh my God. So there was already
01:13:39
some drama happening. This guy had no chance. I mean, yeah. He had his own 22, so he shot rabbits
01:13:46
and gophers. And even though his grandmother told him not to, birds. Wait, rabbits
01:13:52
and gophers are fine, but birds are off limits. Well, because gophers and rabbits,
01:13:55
they eat the, if it's a working farm, they eat the vegetables. Bunnies. Birds do too, though.
01:14:04
But they're beautiful. Anyway, so that summer, he was sent back to Helena to stay with his mother.
01:14:10
Oh, my God. But then he came back after two weeks. So it was basically nobody wanted the giant
01:14:15
scary guy around. And he was only 15. Can you believe it? I know. It's like so unfair, though.
01:14:21
I feel really bad for him. It's lots of rejection and lots of criticism. And like he already clearly had something going on mentally.
01:14:29
And then everyone was just like, this is the point where maybe you can intervene,
01:14:33
but it didn't happen. Right. Quite the opposite. Right. It said that Ed's grandmother feared him enough
01:14:40
that she took her 45 with her anytime she left the house so that Ed wouldn't be near it.
01:14:44
Oh no. The 22 is fine. Yeah. I'm taking that 45. Yeah. So basically one day he decides he's going to shoot his grandmother on the back of the head.
01:14:56
And when police ask him why, he said, I wanted to see what it felt like to kill grandma.
01:15:03
So he's flipped over into a next level. He doesn't understand the finality of that at all.
01:15:10
If you say that, you don't understand. Well, yeah, he's like, I'm testing out to see what it's going to feel like as opposed to being able to walk through that.
01:15:17
Like I wanted her to die. This will feel really bad. Yeah. And everyone's going to feel bad.
01:15:21
So he shot her in the back of the head. He was pretending like he was leaving the house.
01:15:27
Took picked up the his 22. Walked out. She saw the weird look in his eye. And then.
01:15:32
How do you know that? He stood outside. I get this is according to him. He stood outside watching her from the porch and then shot her through the screen door.
01:15:41
As she watched. Oh at the back of the head. What's that? Oh my God. So then he waited for his grandfather to get home from the store and then shot him because he didn't, he didn't, he knew his grandfather would be upset and angry.
01:15:55
So he didn't want to have to deal with that. So he just killed the grandfather. You do not have a fucking right, right mind, man.
01:16:02
No, because then the next thing he did was call his mom. This isn't a murderous, this is someone who doesn't have access to reality.
01:16:10
Yeah. I think this is like the beginnings of being a psychopath or like having some kind of a break.
01:16:17
Like a dissociative episode. Let's just throw some terminology around. We're professionals, like psychologists, right?
01:16:26
So he calls his mother and she says, call the sheriff. So he calls the sheriff, tells them what he did, sits on the front porch and waits for the cops to come.
01:16:36
and that's when they got that quote of, I wanted to see what it would be like to kill grandma.
01:16:42
He also, after he shot his grandma, stabbed her several times with a knife. Yeah, so he wanted to kill her.
01:16:50
That's different. Feel that. Wow. Just shot the grandpa though. So then the police were shocked
01:16:58
and he was committed to a Tuscadero State Hospital. It's kind of a famous mental hospital
01:17:03
up in Northern California. He was diagnosed with paranoid schizophrenia, but he was tested with a near genius IQ.
01:17:10
And in the mental hospital, he learned how to mask his insanity. So he basically got along, blended in.
01:17:19
He did really well with structure. And when people were in charge of him, but not mean and judgmental of him, it worked very well for him.
01:17:28
Yeah. So he learned, he became a runner for one of the doctors, like an assistant to one of the doctors.
01:17:36
And that actually enabled him, like the doctor trusted him that much, but that enabled him to read the doctor's files.
01:17:44
So he memorized the answers to psychological tests that he saw in the files. And so he basically learned what to say to sound like a normal person That smart He learned it out of reading it off of tests So he would read all the psychological tests see what the correct answers were and basically that way Yeah So after four years
01:18:06
those doctors, added Tuscadero, deemed Ed normal enough to reenter society. Four years after killing both his grandparents.
01:18:12
No. So he never even got tried. What's that? He never even went to trial for these murders.
01:18:18
No, no, straight to the mental hospital. That's crazy. So in 1969, the California Youth Authority
01:18:24
released him back into the care of his mother. Clarnell. Can you imagine being like,
01:18:29
oh, mom, my kid's back home. Yeah. I guess. The murderer is home. Yeah. Even though the doctor said
01:18:36
he can't go live with his mother. That's where they sent him. So now he was in the hospital for four years.
01:18:43
So it was between 1965 and 1969 when the Cultural Revolution took place. And it took place in basically
01:18:51
the eye of the storm was San Francisco Bay Area. Yeah. And they lived right outside it.
01:18:58
So sex, drugs, and rebellion were the order of the day. Clearly, I was just typing what the narrator was saying on this.
01:19:04
Because I would never say anything like that. That sounds really casual, Karen. They were the order of the day.
01:19:08
They were the sex, drugs, and... Sex, drugs. So Ed wanted to... Ed's reaction to that was he wanted to become a cop.
01:19:16
He didn't like any of it. He wasn't down with the hippies. I could see that because he liked the order.
01:19:20
He liked the order and he liked... And he wanted to be in charge. So maybe he was trying.
01:19:24
The problem was he's too big to be a cop. Shut up. There's actually regulation against that size of person.
01:19:31
Do you know what makes me feel safe? A fucking six foot nine cop. Yes, true. But then also a six foot nine cop
01:19:37
can basically do whatever he wants at all times. Maybe that's part of it. Or he wouldn't fit into the car.
01:19:43
Any cop could do whatever he wants all the time. The pants would be too short. He would be a laughingstock.
01:19:48
So instead he became a construction worker and he hung out. He lived in Santa Cruz
01:19:53
and he hung out at a bar called the jury room where cops and lawyers went and often hung out.
01:20:00
Can we go there right now? He basically hung among them and they all kind of knew him as Big Ed.
01:20:11
So after a while from being a construction worker, I think he also worked for Caltrans,
01:20:16
which is basically the guy on the side of the road. He saved up, moved out of his mother's house
01:20:21
in Santa Cruz and moved to Alameda, which was 90 minutes away. They have a good flea market there.
01:20:29
In Alameda? Oh, I want to go. So when he was living by himself, he felt angry, awkward, and lonely.
01:20:39
I don't know if those things had anything to do with each other, but that's how he felt in the world.
01:20:43
So he started picking up female hitchhikers, practicing how to get them into his car,
01:20:48
practicing what to say to them to get them into his car practicing what to talk to them about
01:20:54
once they were in his car he picked picked up over 150 hitchhikers as practice holy shit and
01:21:03
then he decided he was going to fix the passenger side door so it couldn't be opened from the inside
01:21:08
i can't believe there were that many hitchhikers to pick up 1969 yeah yeah that's all anyone was
01:21:14
doing. That's back when it was like celebrated. So he practiced for long enough. So in the spring
01:21:21
of 1972, he finally decided he was going to go to the next level. He picked up Marianne Pesci
01:21:26
and Anita Luchesa, who were students at Fresno State, and they were hitchhiking to Stanford
01:21:31
to see friends after a weekend in Berkeley, but they never made it. And this was a time,
01:21:38
of course, when police never looked into missing persons cases, especially that of young women,
01:21:43
because of the amount of runaways and transients there were. So they're, according to cops,
01:21:49
girls ran away all the time and they would always show up later because they were with their boyfriend
01:21:53
or they were with their friends. So it was almost like these fucking hippie kids,
01:21:59
like I don't want to hear about it. Yeah, we're not going to waste our time. Yeah, that was the mentality.
01:22:05
So Ed drove these two girls to an isolated spot. He made Anita get into the trunk
01:22:12
and then he put a bag over Marianne's head to suffocate her. She fought back. She bit a hole into the bag.
01:22:19
And then he never thought that anybody would fight back. He became enraged and he stabbed her repeatedly.
01:22:25
Then he got out and went into the trunk and slit Anita's throat. Oh, no. But because the fighting,
01:22:33
like that wasn't the kill that he fantasized about. So he took their body at, you're going to need to brace yourself for this part.
01:22:40
I'm scared. He took their bodies back to his apartment and raped their corpses. And then he dismembered them
01:22:47
and he put their body parts into plastic bags and left those bags all around the Bay Area.
01:22:53
Can you imagine that that's the first time you really, like you killed someone by shooting them before.
01:22:59
But the first time- And stabbing. Right. And it was your grandparents. Yes. Yeah.
01:23:04
But like raping a corpse, dismemberment, that's not an easy thing to fucking do.
01:23:10
No, it's hideous, but you know he was fantasizing. And they talked in this documentary about that,
01:23:17
how much serial killers fantasize about what they're going to do. Oh, my God. So then he had fantasized about it all happening in the car.
01:23:25
But since that got fucked up, this was like this weird plan B improv that he was doing
01:23:30
that then became his MO. Wow. So two months later, hikers found Marianne's head in the mountains.
01:23:40
And that was the only evidence ever found of the two women. Shut the fuck up. It was the only thing they ever found.
01:23:46
So in September of that year, so that was spring. So like five months later he picks up 15 hitchhiker Aiko Koo Honey don do it She was 15 She was I think they said she was half Korean and half like Romanian or something
01:24:06
She was a dancer. She's on her way to dance class. So she was really small. Honey, don't fucking hitchhike
01:24:11
to dance class. Ridiculous. Ride your goddamn bike. And you're tiny and you're 15.
01:24:15
Like all of these things are so much no. No. He picks her up. He drives her to an isolated location.
01:24:22
But when he tells her he's, this is a kidnapping. She loses her shit and it becomes hysterical.
01:24:28
So to calm her down, he says that he was going to kill himself and take her with him.
01:24:34
But now he's changed his mind. And then he gets out to get something in the trunk
01:24:39
and the door shuts and locks behind him. Girl. So now she's in inside his locked car
01:24:46
and he's locked out. Yes. But he convinces her to open the door. No. But this is him practicing on those 150 girls.
01:24:58
This is a person who's figured out with his genius IQ how to get what he wants. How to manipulate people.
01:25:05
Yep. And how to tell them exactly what they specifically want to hear and need to hear.
01:25:10
God damn it. So anyway, he suffocates her until she's unconscious. He puts tape over her mouth and then holds her nose closed.
01:25:19
So he is like up close into this killing, you know, horribly. Then he raped her and strangled her with her own scarf.
01:25:32
And they put her dead body in the trunk and then went to a bar for a couple of beers.
01:25:36
Who did? He did. Oh. Yeah. Okay. He said they and I wasn't sure. No, no. Sorry, then.
01:25:44
Then he takes the body back to his apartment and it's the same thing. dismembers and scattering her remains all over the Bay Area.
01:25:53
So because a serial killer is a person who's killed three or more people on three or more occasions with a cooling off period in between crimes,
01:26:00
this kill officially makes him a serial killer. So the next day he had a state mandated meeting with his psychiatrist and her
01:26:13
head was in his trunk. Holy fuck. During that meeting. And he made such an impression on the psychiatrist
01:26:19
that they decided he didn't need to see a psychiatrist anymore. The day after he murdered this girl.
01:26:25
Yeah. He had to be good at what he did. Yeah. So to make matters worse, at the same time,
01:26:34
there was another serial killer named Herbert Mullen that was operating in the Santa Cruz area
01:26:39
at the exact same time. What? And this was the guy that was killing people because he thought it was keeping
01:26:44
that big earthquake from happening. Did you ever hear of this guy? I think he deserves his own episode.
01:26:50
Yeah. He was, he killed hitchhikers. He killed, he shot an old man in his yard. He killed a mother and a child.
01:26:58
He, yeah. And he was completely, yeah, he was, I had no idea what was going on. You gotta do that one, please.
01:27:03
Yeah. So that guy got arrested in 1973 and the police thought, oh great, this is all over now.
01:27:09
He should have just stopped killing then and he wouldn't have ever gotten caught.
01:27:11
I know, but he couldn't do it. Four months after his third murder, he was now broke
01:27:18
so he moved back in with his mother yeah come on back home yeah that's going to work out good
01:27:23
so this is January 8th of 1972 he and his mother argue all day he goes out buys a gun
01:27:33
and then he picks up hitchhiker Cindy Shaw and according to him this is the way he tells the story
01:27:39
that he drives her to a remote location shows her the gun then gets out of the car
01:27:44
to open the trunk and he leaves the gun in the car with her. And instead of grabbing it,
01:27:50
she follows him back to the trunk and says, my, what a big trunk do you want me to get in it?
01:27:56
Which to me is, it's his version of the story. Yeah, right. Because he has talked and talked,
01:28:01
like they have hours and hours of his confession. My, what a big trunk. My, what a big trunk you have, grandma.
01:28:10
So she gets into the trunk and he shoots her once in the head or he does what he did before,
01:28:16
which is strangles her. She's in the trunk. She's got a bullet in her head. He brings the body back to his mother's house,
01:28:25
has sex with a corp, dismembers her body in his mother's bathtub and buries her head in his mother's backyard,
01:28:34
throws the rest of the body into the ocean. But she's discovered 24 hours later.
01:28:39
So most of her body parts wash back up on shore. So a month later, he has another fight with his mother and then he goes out for a drive.
01:28:50
And this time he picks up two UC Santa Cruz students, Rosalind Thorpe and Alice Liu.
01:28:57
And all of the students, all the female students, because he was now called the co-ed killer.
01:29:03
And so all the students at UC Santa Cruz were all the female students were warned,
01:29:08
do not hitchhike, do not take rides from strangers. but his car it was his mother's car so it had a UC Santa Cruz parking sticker on it his mother
01:29:17
worked at UC Santa Cruz so they thought it was safe yeah but it's not like that a person who
01:29:23
goes to your school couldn't be a killer too you know yeah but they're all thinking it's like I mean
01:29:27
like a psycho killer well it is but yeah um he shot them it's the exact same thing shot
01:29:34
them, raped their bodies, dismembered them, scattered their remains. Then he decides he's going to buy
01:29:40
a .44. He needs a new gun. So a routine police background check brings up his name and
01:29:46
the police, when they look him up, it's just an index card that says double murder.
01:29:52
So they put, his records were sealed because he was a teenager So they put a hold on the gun purchase What a great idea to put a hold on gun purchases for people who have mental illnesses Oh no sorry I sorry They couldn put a hold on it
01:30:05
He'd already bought it. Oh, never mind. They go to confiscate it. So they show up at his house.
01:30:10
But it's Big Ed. They know Big Ed. There's no problem. It's Big Ed. He goes to the jury room.
01:30:15
He hangs out with us. Yeah, he's a good friend of ours. So, and they assure him it's just a,
01:30:21
it's just a thank you, a formality. Um, but Ed got paranoid because he was like, they're on to me. And so he ran. So he, what he,
01:30:35
sorry, this is the, this is the big one. So he's paranoid. He'm sure the cops are on him.
01:30:41
So on April 21st, 1973, he decides he's going to kill his mother. So he- That's the solution to everything.
01:30:49
Right? It's going to be his big finale. So his mother's sleeping and he goes into her bedroom with a claw hammer, beats her to death with a hammer.
01:30:59
Fuck. Decapitates her, has sex with her corpse. Not chill at all. Puts her vocal cords in the garbage disposal.
01:31:06
Whoa. I mean like... Symbolic as fuck. Yes. And he talked about it. And like I saw like probably 10 seconds of him talking about it. It's just, it's not anybody worth listening to.
01:31:18
It's just like a person who thinks it's great When they're telling you these things
01:31:22
Not just like normal but thinks it's great Thinks it's cool That's pretty ironic isn't it
01:31:28
You know like it's this kind of There's like a swagger to it So So then he Decides that it's going to look like he did it
01:31:39
So a way to make it not look like that Is he calls up his mother's best friend Sally Hallett
01:31:44
Invites her over to a surprise dinner And when she gets there he chokes her to death.
01:31:49
Oh, yeah. And so when the cops find both their bodies, he's, in his mind, they're going to think it's a break-in
01:31:55
and it has nothing to do with that. That's his thinking. And then he goes on the run.
01:32:00
So he jumps in his car, he drives east, and they were still looking for the co-ed killer.
01:32:08
They in no way were looking for him. They had no idea. He drives for three days.
01:32:13
He hears no news on the radio about himself or using his name or anything. And by the time he gets to Pueblo, Colorado, he calls the Santa Cruz police and confesses because he's so mad that they're not talking about him and like and that he was wrong.
01:32:28
And so the the Santa Cruz police have to drive out to Pueblo, Colorado to pick him up.
01:32:34
And they said when he oh, the Pueblo police said when they went out like the Santa Cruz police had the Pueblo cops go pick him up.
01:32:43
When they went and picked him up to arrest him, he put his hands on top of the phone booth.
01:32:47
that's how big he was oh my god yeah i just can't get it i can't deal with it how six foot nine
01:32:55
horrifying it is he's just a humongous monster vince is like six four and he's very fucking tall
01:33:00
yeah and he's five inches taller yeah that's insane it's very tall um so on the whole drive
01:33:08
back the santa cruz police have to listen to his confession holy shit and he talked they said
01:33:14
there's one cop it was like his one of his first cases ever he said he talked until i couldn't
01:33:20
listen to it anymore it was so upsetting and he just wanted to talk about all of it gave every
01:33:25
detail of every single thing um so basically he tries to plead insanity the jury declares him sane
01:33:32
and guilty of all eight murders is eight counts of murder he asked when he gets um goes to jail
01:33:38
he asks for a lobotomy no way and the authorities say no it's too dangerous but he's basically
01:33:43
trying to suggest like cut off the connections between this idea and like the action or like
01:33:49
get this out of my head. I really think a lobotomy would have helped him. I mean, it would have just rendered him like a vegetable basically. Yeah. He would have just
01:33:58
been a bigger pain to deal with. Like he wouldn't have been able to do anything for himself. Yeah.
01:34:03
Probably. He was once quoted in an interview. What do you think now when you see a pretty girl
01:34:09
walking down the street and he answered, one side of me says, wow, what an attractive chick.
01:34:15
I'd like to talk to her, date her. The other side of me says, I wonder how her head would look on a
01:34:19
stick. Holy fuck. Yeah. And that's actually in Brad Easton Ellis' book, American Psycho,
01:34:25
Patrick Bateman paraphrases this quote when he's asked about women, but he attributes it to Ed
01:34:31
Gein, but it's actually an Ed Kemper quote. And also in Silence of the Lambs, Thomas Harris
01:34:37
wrote that Buffalo Bill started his career as a serial killer by impulsively killing
01:34:40
his grandparents as a teenager, which was based on Ed Kemper. Neat. Bummer. It's so weird that it's like such close by stuff,
01:34:50
you know? Yeah. Like close to us. Santa Cruz is like not far. It's so scary. Yeah.
01:34:59
Gross. It's funny that we both did serial killers this time. I know. Hmm. We're getting deep now.
01:35:06
Well, I mean, Yeah. We have to say one thing that made us happy this past week. But it's Monday, so it hasn't been that long.
01:35:16
I mean, I'm going to have to say Poldark. When Poldark, Ross Poldark takes off his shirt to swim in the ocean to clean off the mine dust,
01:35:26
it's like the most beautiful thing you've ever seen. That sounds cool. I think mine was
01:35:30
we went last night we went to the the New Beverly Theater which is like really it's owned now by
01:35:39
Quentin Tarantino but it's this really cool art house theater that's been around forever
01:35:42
Quentin Tarantino bought it to like save it which I love him for and they were playing the 1950s version
01:35:49
of Dracula and we went with Joe DeRosa's parents who we were talking about from the podcast
01:35:55
his podcast and like met them and they were the sweetest people ever. And it was like just such a nice...
01:36:00
nice thing that someone wants you to meet their parents as an adult, which like doesn't really
01:36:04
happen anymore. Yes. And it was a cool movie and they were fun to hang out with. Yeah,
01:36:09
they were the best. And they, um, and then New Beverly has frozen junior mints, like as a thing
01:36:14
you can buy, like, cause they know that, that people like them. I didn't know that. And frozen
01:36:18
junior mints are like a family favorite. Yeah. They, they have them frozen junior mints and
01:36:22
frozen snicker bars there you can get. Cause they're just like, yeah. And they have fucking,
01:36:26
White Castle burgers you can get there too. Are you serious? They're frozen and they heat them up.
01:36:31
Also, the New Beverly is the best popcorn of all movie theaters. Best popcorn and it's so cheap there.
01:36:36
They have the movie theater candy prices from the 80s. Is that true? Yes, we bought so much shit
01:36:42
and they were like $50 and this much and I handed them 50 and they were like, no, 15.
01:36:48
And I almost lost my mind. So I ended up giving the guy a $5 tip because I was just like, take it all.
01:36:54
At normal theaters, you're like, yeah, this is going to cost me $85. Fortune, yeah.
01:36:58
It's the best. Yeah. If you live in LA, you should absolutely support The New Beverly.
01:37:03
And they have just the best. They'll have double features of like the coolest movies.
01:37:08
Yeah. April and I went there to see, because she's obsessed with Elvis. And we went to see Elvis's concert film
01:37:15
that I'm not going to be able to remember the name of. And it was so fun. And everyone there was super into it.
01:37:21
It's like, it feels like an event when you go there. You know what it's better than
01:37:26
is going to a fucking, the cemetery movie screening where you have to sit outdoors
01:37:30
in the freezing cold on the freezing cold grass and watch a movie on the, I don't need to do that.
01:37:36
Go to New Beverly then go down the street to El Coyote, get great fucking margaritas.
01:37:42
Yeah. Life is good. Good times. Yeah. Okay, we're back. Wow. Wow. Karen, do you have any updates
01:37:52
on this old case? Well a couple I mean it is really old It one of the most famous serial killer cases as we know as anyone listening probably knows and as we seen since the Mindhunter era Right now I speaking to David Fincher and David Fincher only listen to me the people that care want that season three of Mindhunter
01:38:15
and you need to take your power Fincher and use it Finchy come on man get your shit get off of
01:38:23
Netflix and go to Hulu with that third season please we need it we need it sorry this is back
01:38:29
to everybody else. Here's some updates. Ed Kemper has spent the last 50 years serving his life
01:38:35
sentence. Now he's confined to a wheelchair. He has diabetes. He has coronary heart disease. He
01:38:40
had a stroke years ago. He's been denied parole 12 times. After his last parole hearing, Santa Cruz
01:38:49
District Attorney Jeff Rozelle testified to the parole board that Ed Kemper is still dangerous.
01:38:54
This is the quote. Ed Kemper is still dangerous. He remains a high risk. And, quote,
01:38:59
he is untreated. He is essentially the same man as when he went in for this, end quote.
01:39:06
Wow. Yeah. Are you with me that, like, I would have guessed he wasn't alive anymore?
01:39:10
That's wild. Also, I feel like we would have heard from him more. Like, we heard from Charles Manson every now and again. We haven't heard anything.
01:39:18
That is the weird part. And I know that, like, this is the thing where if you talk about serial
01:39:22
killers too long, you kind of go into a, you know, as if you are the scientist that knows
01:39:28
the psychology behind this or anything. But I always thought it was really interesting because
01:39:31
Ed Kemper went to like the story behind that relationship with his mother and that so much
01:39:38
about that child abuse, very real child abuse and the relationship with his mother and all those
01:39:43
things. And then when he went to jail, not kind of separate from the conversation of him being a
01:39:49
one of the worst serial killers there is, he went to jail and then he started reading audiobooks for
01:39:55
the blind and he has yeah apparently read over like 5 000 hours of audio books for the blind
01:40:01
it was a refinery 29 article about the fact that someone discovered that he had been doing that so like they out there and we don know it him Yeah And it essentially a program he started in jail What the fuck And the quote in that article was that it made him feel better that he was doing something constructive for other people
01:40:23
I don't think that's the way psychopaths think. Yeah. No, that's confounding for sure.
01:40:29
Who knows? Or maybe it was just like this is his plan to make it look like he's doing good things to get out.
01:40:34
I don't know. It's crazy. Yeah. Here's what's really important. Cameron Britton, who was the actor that played Ed Kemper on Mindhunter so brilliantly, who was also from the town next to Petaluma, Sebastopol.
01:40:47
He was our guest on our live show in L.A. that had 7,000 people at it for Halloween.
01:40:52
And he was the loveliest human being. He was so wonderful. Yeah. Yeah, that was very surreal and exciting.
01:40:59
Yeah, that's what we're going to focus on at the end of that story. Yeah. Is the actors who play.
01:41:04
Yeah. Okay, so if we're naming it today based on something we said in the episode, I think kind of Locos works.
01:41:10
But what else could we do? There was me talking about lint traps, of course. And so the phrase hint of lint was used.
01:41:17
Yes, very important to remember. I feel like scream sneezing and lint trap cleaning have been two really good lessons we've taught people.
01:41:25
Yeah. The mansion of corners, we could call it after we had a few different corners in the intro.
01:41:32
Correction corner and blah, blah, blah corner. The mansion of corners. There's so many corners in this house that it's a mansion.
01:41:39
I get it. Okay. Yeah, I think so. And then I guess the phrase, that's on you, mommy, when we're talking about that you need to make your kids listen.
01:41:48
It's the parent's fault. I like that's on you, mommy. That's on you, mommy. I mean, that was a really good episode.
01:41:56
Yeah, that's a big one. That's a good one. We're doing great. We're in our stride in episode, what is this, 39?
01:42:02
Yes, finally. Look, it took 10 months. That's our advice to you. If you're starting your podcast, give yourself 10 months to really work out some really serious kinks.
01:42:12
Totally. And remember that what you saying into the microphone is going to go out into the Internet forever Yeah And in nine years you going to have to listen to it and explain yourself So don forget that either Explain your hysteria ladies
01:42:26
All right. Well, thanks for listening. We're here every Wednesday doing these rewinds
01:42:31
of our old episodes. So if you're starting to get into the podcast, it's a great way to do it.
01:42:36
Yeah. Thank you guys for listening. We appreciate you. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye.
01:42:41
Elvis, do you want a cookie? Hey there, it's Ryan Seacrest for Safeway. For you, save days are here now through June 23rd.
01:42:55
Find hot deals throughout the store and earn four times a point. Look for in-store tags to earn on eligible items from Triscuit, Quaker, Reese's, and Dots pretzels.
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Then clip the offer in the app for automatic event-long savings. Stack up those rewards to save even more.
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Enjoy savings on top of savings when you shop in-store or online for easy pickup or delivery.
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Restrictions apply. See the website for full terms and conditions. This is Jacob Goldstein from What's Your Problem?
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When you buy business software from lots of vendors, the costs add up and it gets complicated and confusing.
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Odoo solves this. It's a single company that sells a suite of enterprise apps that handles everything from accounting to inventory to sales.
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Odoo is all connected on a single platform in a simple and affordable way. You can save money without missing out on the features you need.
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Check out Odoo at odoo.com. That's odoo.com. Here's the truth. You could literally be adored by everyone and then come home and still get completely ignored by your own cat.
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It's classic cat behavior. But new Shiba Premium Puree is a lickable treat that changes all that.
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They're protein-rich, made with bone broth, and have the smooth, creamy texture cats go crazy for,
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especially when it's hand-fed. Yeah, it's more than a treat. It's a fast pass to favorite human status.
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So feed your cat Sheba and go from totally ignored to truly adored in just 12 days, guaranteed,
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or your money back. Learn more at Sheba.com.