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00:01:54
Goodbye. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. It is Wednesday, and that means it's time to take you back to the not-so-distant past where things were shaping up to be the nightmare that it is now.
00:02:24
That's right. But keeping it positive, this is the show where we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
00:02:31
That's right. And today we are going to recap episode 45, which we named Funky Diva.
00:02:36
Oh, my God. That makes me so happy that this little shop I worked in on Melrose at 18 is the name of an episode.
00:02:44
So classic. So this episode came out on December 1st, 2016. Let's listen to the intro of episode 45.
00:02:56
You go first. Welcome to My Favorite Murder, the podcast that asks the question.
00:03:04
What? Huh? Who put this on? Huh? This is not appropriate. No, murder? What murder?
00:03:12
How dare you? What is wrong with you girls? dare you like this. My sensibilities are offended. I'm offended in my sensibility area.
00:03:20
I'm offended in the face. I'm offended religiously. In my mouth. Morally. In the mouth. Ear, nose, and throat. Virtually. Ear, nose, and throat.
00:03:32
In the eyes. Veins. Spinal fluid. Heart. Not the spine, just the spinal fluid. Spleen.
00:03:39
So this is the anatomy podcast Yes we can name over 10 things in your body Congratulations to us
00:03:47
Yay That's Georgia That's Karen And we're here to talk to you about all of our favorite things we like the most
00:03:54
Which is true crime Yeah Welcome If you don't like it Later days This is the wrong PCAST for you bro
00:04:01
PCAST I stole that from Vince I don't want to take credit for that This is the wrong PCAST pie for you, friend.
00:04:12
Yeah. Get another PCAST. It's funny that, isn't it funny, Karen, if you reflect, I was peeing today as you do
00:04:20
and I was reflecting as I do. As you're forced to. Right. And I was thinking about how funny it is that this like thing that we've been obsessed with
00:04:29
and secretly in love with and certain, like is our kind of going to be our career.
00:04:33
it's pretty nice to think that little Karen was right about at least one thing it's a pretty good feeling yeah because she fucked up a ton of stuff
00:04:43
I just keep accidentally falling into like not fucking up yeah you know that's nice yeah is that
00:04:51
you mean in later life yeah like we got our fucked up stuff out of the way early yeah which
00:04:57
is kind of, I think, what you're supposed to do. Yeah. We're lucky because like 20, well,
00:05:03
by 25, I was like, I'm good. Yeah. Yeah. By 27, I was like, well, I didn't die. So I'm going to stop doing all those things now.
00:05:13
Yeah. There's no going down from being in rehab at 14. I still love that. I like to think of you in a big pair of orange Junko jeans,
00:05:23
just being like, hey, do you have a clove or whatever? Just like so different. Oh, sorry.
00:05:30
That's little 14-year-old Georgia and she appears out of a puff of smoke in like an orange JNCO.
00:05:37
Is it JNCO? I thought it was, I don't know. I'm sure it's different everywhere. I'm too old to even really know.
00:05:42
It's not my reference. Thank God I never wore those. I did wear vinyl pants to raves.
00:05:46
Did you? Weren't they hot? Uh-huh. Tight? Never washed them. Gross. I know. Was there some benefit to not washing them Like were they easier to put on next time I just don know how one would wash vinyl or leather pants Oh yeah You just have to throw them away
00:06:05
Yeah. And start over. Totally. Where do you get vinyl pants? There was this, you remember when Melrose Avenue was like the fucking coolest place in the world?
00:06:13
Yeah, I do actually. That was like our, we would save up money throughout the year in Orange County
00:06:18
and make a pilgrimage to fucking Melrose. Yeah. And my first job when I moved to LA,
00:06:23
like at 17 was like on Melrose at like one of those clothing stores. What's that?
00:06:28
Funky Diva. Literally it was called Funky Diva. I'm positive I shopped at Funky Diva.
00:06:34
I bet you came in. Tons of chokers. Yes. Wouldn't that be amazing if right now we could see
00:06:39
security camera footage of me and you having some kind of rude exchange at Funky Diva.
00:06:45
Why does it have to be rude? Because I'm rude. That's all I was doing back then was rudeness, rudeness, rudeness.
00:06:52
friends, foes, didn't matter. I love it. It was a lot of arched eyebrows and a lot of,
00:06:57
anyway. I'm sorry. Sorry. I'm sorry. What I'm enjoying these days is people on Twitter trying
00:07:04
to show that they mean I'm sorry the way you say it. They're trying to do it in the writing.
00:07:11
So sometimes it's all caps I'm and then sorry. Sometimes it's reversed. Like how do you actually
00:07:16
put that into... I would do all caps I'm. But some girl, did you see that on Instagram,
00:07:22
I put up a photo of some girl who wrote like, there was like a musical bar and it had the like,
00:07:27
I'm sorry. It was like how one would play it. You could sing it. Yeah. And she had the like, she must've been a musician. I wish I could, but yeah.
00:07:35
That's genius. Sorry. Do you ever like, do you get like self-conscious about the things you say
00:07:40
here that become a thing like that where you're like, I would say that anyways, but now it sounds like I'm pandering.
00:07:48
Yes. Now, well, now it sounds like you're trying to make some kind of an infographic for...
00:07:52
Totally. Here's your favorite. Like someone at the live show had text afterwards,
00:07:57
like not texted, but like put on like, I was really hoping you'd call someone a sweet baby angel.
00:08:01
I'm like, well, I don't, I didn't call anyone that because I don't want to sound like,
00:08:05
right guys? Yes. You don't, yeah. It's not like you're, that's your... Tagline? Catchphrase.
00:08:13
Tag catch line phrase. You're not going to tag anybody with that phrase. My problem is I cannot believe,
00:08:22
I cannot believe that I still say literally so much. It is literally the worst habit of all time.
00:08:31
I say it when I'm like kind of trying to explain something to you and I'm really like really trying to convey something.
00:08:37
I'll say literally like seven times. It's awful. I haven't noticed it. I don't pay attention to anyone but myself.
00:08:45
So I wouldn't know. Good plan. Good plan. You know what I mean? I guess same here.
00:08:49
Yeah. Nobody cares. Yeah. Nobody gives a shit. No one gives a shit about you, but yourself and your cats.
00:08:54
It's nice to be, we, by the way, we had such an incredible time in Chicago. We, I mean,
00:09:02
it was nutso. We, um, I, I'm speaking for both of us now. No, I'm speaking for the world.
00:09:08
I had a horrible. Yeah. Georgia did not enjoy herself. We, the Karen, it was so crazy to walk out.
00:09:17
As I explained to my sister and you and all of our people afterwards, I said, I anticipated a certain amount of applause
00:09:26
and we got like 15 times more than what I anticipated. I've seen so many, like a couple of friends have texted me
00:09:33
and I've seen a couple of tweets and things that they got so emotional when they heard the applause of us.
00:09:39
Yeah, people keep saying that. What a bunch of nice people. I know. Thank you for clapping.
00:09:44
I know. And like, it just is neat. It's so neat. It's really neat. I think we're a little overwhelmed.
00:09:52
At how neat it is. At how neat everything is. And we're trying to process it. Yeah.
00:09:59
And we're just happy. It's so flattering and we're happy. And we want to thank each and every one of you,
00:10:04
which I think we did after the show. We stood there and thank fucking God. We fucking thanked you all to your face.
00:10:09
I hugged so many people. And thank the Lord, nobody was weird. Nobody. Nobody. Nobody.
00:10:16
I was really waiting for like somebody with some scissors up their sleeve or something.
00:10:20
Oh, for sure. And everybody did great. My mom sat to the side in a chair with a beer and just watched.
00:10:27
It was like an hour and a half. It was so long. And she watched the entire thing.
00:10:31
So did my sister and Adrian and Audrey. After a little while, Audrey came over and just started taking pictures of us taking pictures with people because she was so excited.
00:10:39
Everybody was thrilled about it. But we did want to thank Tyler Green and Jonathan Pitts
00:10:44
are the two people who put the Chicago Podcast Festival together and they made it happen for us and for everybody who is there.
00:10:51
And we want to thank them so much because they did an amazing job. Yeah, it was so smooth and easy and great.
00:10:56
And there was soda in the green room and there was a green room candy. Yeah, we had a whole, we had a bag of treats.
00:11:04
Yeah. That's awesome. Do you know how much I fucking love, like, what do they call them when you leave a place and they give you a bag?
00:11:11
An exit bag. Whatever. I fucking... I don't know what it's called. I don't know.
00:11:15
It sounded right. Oh, like a swag bag. Swag bag. Yeah, yeah. I will go to a fucking party
00:11:18
just for the swag bag. Sure. Even if I could buy it myself, I will fucking go. Like, you know, buy the shit in there.
00:11:24
Because you just want a little present? Oh, I just want to like not... Yeah, like presents.
00:11:27
We also want to thank the staff of the... I never pronounce it right, but the Anthenium Theater,
00:11:34
which is the 105-year-old theater where we did our show, where all those people were.
00:11:39
And that staff had to wait until we said hi to every single person practically. And so thank you guys so much for your patience and for being there for us.
00:11:50
And I actually I have a business card of the man who really arranged that lobby situation And I meant to bring it to say his name specifically The dude who stood there and took every photograph Took every picture He was like hand me your camera
00:12:05
They were so great. They were so nice. And the whole experience was just like pretty.
00:12:10
I didn't really look at you that much because I didn't want to have, like we weren't having
00:12:14
that much personal experience. Yeah. Because I didn't want to like either cry. Burst into tears.
00:12:19
Yeah. You can't look at me a lot in like emotional settings, I feel like. No, I mean,
00:12:23
Or you don't want to get emotional. I need to shut down in very specific ways. And I can't, you know me, I can't open it back up
00:12:29
or it'll be tears, tears, tears. Okay. I guess, yeah. God, we're so different. We're like opposite.
00:12:36
We're like the opposite. So we're doing the Riot LA show on Saturday, January 21st.
00:12:42
Because that's the one at the Orpheum, right? I think so, yeah. So it's another big old-fashioned theater.
00:12:47
Yeah. Please help fill it out so we don't feel stupid. Yeah, we don't want to feel stupid in our own city.
00:12:52
Oh my God. Like around people that we know. Oh my God. And we keep talking about like, oh, in Chicago, they did this and pat our back, pat our back. And then we go to LA and it's like four people. It's like your manager, my agent wouldn't go. Who else would be there?
00:13:06
Just judging us in the crowd. No one makes a giant Elvis fucking cut out face like they did in Chicago.
00:13:12
Oh, I forgot. So a girl made... Oh my God. I'm going to call her out because she was amazing.
00:13:17
She took a picture of Elvis. She blew it up. So it was bigger than a human head,
00:13:21
like twice the size of a human head. And then she had it in front of her face. So when the lights came up
00:13:26
and we were talking to people to get the hometown murder at the end. Yeah. I saw this thing.
00:13:32
I thought a girl dressed up like a furry, like dressed up like Elvis. It scared the shit out of me.
00:13:39
I was genuinely scared of her. But it turned out she was just holding it in front of her face.
00:13:44
Like, look, Elvis is here. You can find the photos on Instagram, my favorite murder Instagram. Her name's Alex Graves. And what a fucking angel, baby. Like, thank you so much. Like, that was so fucking cool.
00:13:55
It was super cool. And I have photos of us with it. And I have this photo from my hotel room of me having it in front of my face.
00:14:01
It really does look like when you hold it up, it just looks like you're now a huge Siamese cat.
00:14:07
It's creepy, but in the best way because I'm obsessed with this cat. Yeah. Like he's sitting next to me right now. And I also have Siamese pajama pants on right now.
00:14:15
You're living the life. Oh, I'm in deep. You're living dat life. I have a parasite in my brain that just controls me and it's cat.
00:14:25
It's from cats. Probably, right? Sure. That's real sad. Are you going to bring that cat head to New York so Elvis can be there too?
00:14:35
It doesn't. It didn't fit in my bag. I should. I just tell you something and I feel really shitty about it.
00:14:39
It's super huge. Did you have to leave stuff behind? Okay. I don't care. Okay. I know, but I know you don't, but I feel really bad.
00:14:46
So like, but it's kind of cute. Okay, so we took a photo of it in the hotel. Then we were packing to leave in tonight.
00:14:52
And then I was like, it doesn't fit. What do we do? And he was like, put it behind the couch in the hotel room.
00:14:58
So I slipped it behind the couch at the fucking Godfrey Hotel in one of the rooms behind the couch is a fucking Elvis.
00:15:04
And it has this girl's info on it. Like not info info, but like, you know, Instagram and shit on it.
00:15:08
So someone's going to motherfucking find that. That's hilarious. You know, it's interesting.
00:15:12
I had brought a dress with me to Chicago that I bought in a panic at Target for $20.
00:15:20
Didn't try it on. I was like, this is going to be a, look, a dress. I'm doing it.
00:15:25
Fine. Grabbed it. Was it black? No, it wasn't black, actually. It was like green and maroon and black,
00:15:31
but it was kind of stripy and there was a lot going on. When I got to Chicago and tried it on,
00:15:36
it turned out it was empire waist, which makes me look, because I have big boobs,
00:15:41
So it made me look like I was in my third trimester. My sister's like, take it off.
00:15:46
Anorexic girls are the only people to look good in them. And you shouldn't be anorexic.
00:15:49
Right. So no one. Nobody. So that's why I went shopping and told that whole story.
00:15:54
If you want to hear it's not a good story, but it's on the bottom. And we both wore black dresses.
00:15:59
Are we going to just, are we doing that from now on? Those are our show uniforms.
00:16:02
Like the same dress or just black, any kind of black outfit? I think we should keep it like any kind.
00:16:07
Okay. Don't you? Yes. except that means I have to go shopping because I literally own like three black things
00:16:12
because I dress like a fucking schoolgirl grandma. Well, then you have 10 days. You have 10 days from New York.
00:16:18
And I love shopping. Oh my God. Shopping's amazing. I love it. But I left that dress in our hotel room
00:16:24
with a note that said, you can have this if you want it. You should have returned it.
00:16:28
Oh no, I'm not. To Target? Yeah, I return shit all the time to Target. I ripped.
00:16:32
Anytime I buy something, I rip all the tags off immediately. You do. See, I'm claustrophobic
00:16:36
and can't go in a changing room. So I just bring everything home and then return it all.
00:16:40
I think I don't go in a changing room because I don't want to see my back in one of those mirrors.
00:16:44
I saw mine recently. My butt, like it had the mirror behind me. Like my mirror stops at like my,
00:16:50
it's like my waist up. Yeah. Which is like the great area. Sure. I look so hot from like behind
00:16:55
and the waist up. With the back of your bra and everything? Yeah. It's like, oh, well now
00:16:59
because I've got that like fat pinch because I refuse to believe I'm bigger than me.
00:17:03
Everyone has that. That's human. I don't need to see my fucking butt. Right. Then when you're in one of those
00:17:09
high tension dressing rooms. Yeah. Ugh. So yeah. I just want to pretend that that's not true.
00:17:17
I just like to think that there was a housekeeping, housekeeping lady who was just like,
00:17:22
oh my God, a cute dress. And I wrote on the note, never been worn. I hope she believed me.
00:17:28
Anyhow, thanks Chicago. We really love you. Yeah, Chicago. Do we have any other housekeeping?
00:17:35
Housekeeping? Oh, my only thing is, I had started watching a show called, did you start called The Killing Season?
00:17:43
No, but I need to watch it. Okay, yesterday. I haven't been hearing enough about it.
00:17:48
Okay, I think we'll be the engine for that. I think so. Because I started watching it yesterday I had heard a little bit And so it a series about the Long Island serial killer And I started that book so long ago and said I was going to do an episode about it
00:18:06
And this is one of like the murder that I heard about beforehand is so fucking crazy and insane.
00:18:12
The girl who went to privately dance for that dude. Yes. Who like something happened. Yes. The
00:18:19
thing that like kicked it off. Amazing. Like it should be solvable based on that murder. Right.
00:18:23
Love it. So this series is by the people, the two people, Joshua Zeman and Rachel Mills.
00:18:31
And they're the two people who did the documentary Cropsey that we recommended to everybody.
00:18:35
Yeah. That's super upsetting. Well, this is an A&E series. A&E is amazing. I love Cropsey because it's not corny.
00:18:43
Like there's so many documentaries that are like corny. Right. Cropsey is not. No, no.
00:18:47
It's just straight up scary. Yeah. Well, this series, it's called The Killing Season.
00:18:52
It's on A&E. This is not an ad, by the way, in the middle. Like we're not talking.
00:18:56
This is real talking. Yeah. Now we have to say stuff like that. Real talking corner.
00:19:02
I started watching yesterday and I ended up laying on my couch and watching six episodes straight through.
00:19:09
And by the time I got to the sixth episode, I needed to leave my house and be around human beings
00:19:14
that I knew I would be safe with. Oh my God, I like that. It was very upsetting.
00:19:18
And I don't have that. Like normally I don't get that. and I really did. Like, I went to the movies
00:19:24
with Alison Agosti and then I told her she started it today and texted me today and was like,
00:19:30
I cannot stop watching The Killing Season. Maybe I shouldn't watch it. I mean, I don't think Vince
00:19:34
is going to want to watch it with me. It's really heavy. But the thing is that it starts with
00:19:38
the Long Island serial killer and then it just expands like to other shit. It just keeps going.
00:19:44
Yeah, because there's all these things connected. You have to see it. I'm fucking watching
00:19:47
the shit out of that. Highly recommend if you haven't seen it. I did the same thing yesterday,
00:19:51
literally with Search Party. Oh, yes. And now I was like, I'm going to watch, I watched five minutes of the first episode
00:20:00
and I was like, I'm going to save this for Vince because it's really good. And then I'm in episode like six now.
00:20:05
I couldn't stop. Like I did my nails because I wanted to sit in front of the TV and I can't sit in front of the TV
00:20:12
without doing something. Right. So like my nails are nice. My fucking laundry was folded out here,
00:20:17
which I never like. I folded laundry too. Oh my God. Yeah, you got to do something.
00:20:20
I watched one episode of Search Party and then I had to leave my house. I had to be somewhere.
00:20:26
Yeah. And I knew if I started the second one, I would not leave. Every character, John Early,
00:20:31
is that he? Yeah. He is so fucking perfect. He's brilliant. There's like four main characters
00:20:36
and they're just like the perfect exact people of who they're supposed to be. Yeah.
00:20:40
And you know them. Did you get the feeling too where when I saw the first episode,
00:20:44
I got jealous that that's their, like, oh, you're making this show already. Like, I want this show.
00:20:49
I do too. I was thinking that about you writing that. I'm like, how stoked would you be
00:20:52
if this was the show you were working on? Yeah. I want like a fucking, can I be someone's sister's friend's brother?
00:20:59
No. No? You can't. I want like a walk-on role. And I want you to write it. It's okay.
00:21:06
Yeah, we'll come to them with a bunch of big ideas. So good. It's so good. Watch Search Party.
00:21:13
Like, it's so good. And I think it's all on demand too, so you can binge the shit out of it.
00:21:16
Yeah, you can. It feels like everything's that. It feels like I would do what she's doing.
00:21:22
Right. What's her? Aaliyah? Aaliyah Shawquat? Shawquat. She's so cute. I bet you I didn't pronounce that right.
00:21:30
Aaliyah. I don't know. It's maybe from Arrested Development. Yeah, she's the darlingest person I've ever seen.
00:21:36
She's such a good actress too. Yeah. Oh my God, I'm so happy. So that's like TV Corner?
00:21:41
TV Corner. I think that's all I have. Do we do murders? Oh, Stephen, do you need a Stephen check-in?
00:21:49
Stephen, check-in. How are you, Stephen? My sister had a great time in Chicago. Yay.
00:21:54
Oh, nice. And I did hang out with the cats. Thank you. When I go out of town, Stephen takes over the Elvis and Mimi Instagram,
00:22:01
and it's like, I kind of need to pay you extra for that, because it's so good. I was just thinking where I was during the show,
00:22:10
and I'm just sitting here petting Elvis. As it should be. Yeah, no, it was perfect.
00:22:16
But my sister, she met a really nice murderino and her mom, who's also murderino.
00:22:22
And they got a picture with her and everything, which is very sweet. I love it. I think her name was Leah or something like that.
00:22:28
But it was very sweet. That's so great. And my sister, like I was telling you, I was like, my sister needs to listen to My Favorite Murder because she was obsessed with Helter Skelter.
00:22:36
I got her Devil in the White City when she moved to Chicago. So it was just like, this is this needs to happen.
00:22:43
She's got all the materials. She has no excuses. Yeah. She's got to get into it.
00:22:48
And we gave you, we called her Sister Ray Morris, gave you a shout out. That's right.
00:22:52
That was very sweet. Someone needs to get a giant Stephen Ray Morris cut out. That's right.
00:22:58
That's the next one. Oh my God. No, that sounds like, I would never want to see my face like that.
00:23:04
But it needs to be three times the size as the last one. She needed basically not be able to bring it in
00:23:10
because they're like, you can't. Someone make a Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade balloon of Steven, that would be perfect. If you don't mind. It would not be that big of a deal.
00:23:21
Leave it behind a what? The couch? Leave it in the basement of the Holiday Inn. You just told everyone we're staying. No, we're not staying in a Holiday Inn.
00:23:31
I know. Not that we're going to... Okay, here we go. Nobody gives a shit. We're not. They know.
00:23:38
No, we're not. We're not. And we told you that from the beginning. We said it before and we're going to say it again.
00:23:43
Yeah. Like you guys know. Please. We want you to know. You have to know that. That we know.
00:23:48
Yes. We know when we're not. Three hours later, they're still doing that thing. Oh, here's me typing an email.
00:23:55
Can you guys start the podcast? No, fuck you. We've got to improv some. more. Stop pissing Karen off. Elvis is leaving. He's like, fuck these bitches. You piss me off,
00:24:05
then you piss Elvis off. Then it's over. Mimi's fine though. Oh yeah. Most people gave us like
00:24:12
Elvis and Mimi toys and they're like, they look like, oh God, I'm going to lose my mind. Everyone's
00:24:16
the best. We got nice presents. All right. I love it. They're so good and nice. I know.
00:24:22
people. I know. I think. Oh, what? I'm sorry. Here's the last one. The girl who, as she walked
00:24:30
up, my sister and Adrian and Audrey like cried laughing when I told this story. The girl who
00:24:35
walked up like, hey, you guys kind of all young and like she was doing weird things with her
00:24:40
shoulders. So she's all kind of goofy. And then when she got in to take the picture, she goes,
00:24:44
you guys, my dad killed his business partner and got away with it. Bye. Stay sexy.
00:24:51
She was just like this cute, like kind of sorority-ish chick. Hey, how are you guys?
00:24:59
Yeah. And she did put her on like, you know, when you're like talking to someone as the photo
00:25:03
is getting taken. Yeah. Like all phony, like straight faced or whatever. She was so excited about it.
00:25:07
My dad killed his business partner and he got away with it. Bye. Bye. We were like, what?
00:25:13
I've never been that starstruck in my life. No. Yeah. I was like email. I wanted to give her my personal email account to just be like, email us now.
00:25:20
I said, say hi to your dad for me. It was hilariously funny. That was gorgeous. It was a beautiful one.
00:25:27
If you admit to other people's crimes to us in person, we'll mention you on the podcast.
00:25:35
We will listen and we will shout it out. And we will be subpoenaed in the trial.
00:25:40
Yeah. No lying, please. All right. Should we start? I guess. I think. Now the homework part comes.
00:25:48
No, I like my murder. Are you this is what I wanted to do, but I think you're first.
00:25:52
I think I am. Yeah. And we're back. We're here. It's so funny that we're talking about the listener, Alex.
00:26:02
She's still a listener. She's still a friend. And I totally forgot about that Elvis head.
00:26:07
That you left in the hotel room. That's so funny. It was gigantic. It was enormous.
00:26:11
It was so awesome. I wish I had like let her keep it because I couldn't have carried that onto the plane.
00:26:16
I mean, it was double the size of an overhead bin, I think. It was so great, though.
00:26:20
Wasn't it? Yeah. It was great. It was like three people could have stood behind that Elvis head.
00:26:24
It was amazing and very realistic. Yeah. And then finding out that we were a BuzzFeed quiz, that was like really early on.
00:26:32
Yes, it was. Very surreal. And at first it was like, oh, well, that's people that like our podcast, like that quiz.
00:26:39
And then it just lived on. It just went on and on. Yeah. It's just so wild. When I was listening to this episode, I'm like, it feels like it took longer for us to hit that peak, but it was so fast.
00:26:52
How are we going to wrap our heads around that? We didn't. We couldn't. Well, and also because it was like, we would have been able to wrap our heads around it, I think, if we stopped for three months.
00:27:01
But it was like going and then just the work. I think the weird part was the amount of work just kept adding and adding and adding and adding.
00:27:09
So it was like we didn't have time to think, to process, to talk about it. It was literally just every time I saw you, you were holding your phone up to show me a new shocking piece of information about what was going on.
00:27:23
It was just always surreal. Well, we kept going and we kept showing up at my apartment and doing new stories.
00:27:29
Stephen kept showing up, recording them. We appreciate that. Thank God he did. So nice.
00:27:35
Okay, so this is a classic, your story that I'd never heard before but still think about.
00:27:38
let's get into Karen's story about Lord Lucan. If you spend all day waiting to take your bra off,
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00:30:12
So I have, because of watching the killing season and how heavy it is, and how it feels like everyone in the world
00:30:22
is a serial killer by the time you're halfway through with it, which in some ways is a fun feeling.
00:30:27
It's fun, isn't it? I like it. And yet you're still alive. We made it, everybody.
00:30:34
So I switched over as a palate cleanser. I started watching The Crown, which is a wonderful Netflix series.
00:30:42
British procedural? It sounds British. Is it British? It's the story of Queen Elizabeth.
00:30:48
I figured. God, I'm so smart. The newest one. Yeah, so in a way it is kind of a British procedural
00:30:54
Wait, it's the newest show about About like how she got Became the queen And what her life was like privately
00:31:01
She's like a badass She's a total badass There's parts in it I want the Crown TV show to come out with their own book
00:31:09
On how to be politely assertive Because that's her And also I want them to come out with the color of lipstick
00:31:16
That she's wearing Because it's this perfect shade of pinkish red that would actually look good.
00:31:22
I can't wear red because my teeth are yellow. It's a little corn nibble. You're very fair.
00:31:26
I'm very fair with red in my skin. So red lipstick on me makes me look like I have been smoking crack in the alley.
00:31:33
I look like a fucking, what do they call them? A rockabilly. And it's obnoxious.
00:31:39
Yeah. Well, this is like this muted brownish pink lipstick. I bet they make it for her.
00:31:45
There's not even a thing you can fucking buy. Well, we have a fucking lip gloss that was made for us too
00:31:51
that that girl sent us. That's right. Remember? So the queen, I'm sorry. It's not that fucking special.
00:31:55
But I want the queens because we've started doing coke before. Back to being 14.
00:32:04
So I blended into this very British kind of fancy regal area. Yeah, like controlled.
00:32:14
Yes. And aristocratic, which is, I mean, like if I was in that time, I would be like truly the dishwasher
00:32:23
in the bottom part of the basement. Like, oh, my governor. That's Karen. Do you need a candlestick?
00:32:30
But with an Irish accent, which for some reason I can't do right now. So I decided that my murder
00:32:36
is going to be that of the infamous story of Lord Lucan. Have you ever heard of him?
00:32:42
I don't think so. Okay, this one's pretty good because it involves British aristocracy and a disappearance.
00:32:50
Ooh, you know I love disappearances. All right, so here's the story of this guy.
00:32:56
He, it was born John Bingham. And he was born on December 18th, 1934 to an aristocratic family in Marleybone,
00:33:07
which is the funniest name for, it's a neighborhood, I guess, in London. Oh, you're going to get, I don't care what you say next,
00:33:13
you're going to get a correction about like what it is. Pronunciation, the area.
00:33:16
It's not in London. It's actually in Wales. It's not a neighborhood. It's a fucking...
00:33:20
It's fucking in New York. Square and it's a town fucking in New York. Bye. Yeah, this whole...
00:33:28
I once again am flying in the face of logic and just trying to be British once again.
00:33:35
Aim for the fucking nose. Aim for the stars. Aim for that button nose. So John Bingham,
00:33:41
during World War II, when he was a boy, he was evacuated out of London, out of Marleybone.
00:33:47
They're gonna be like, it's pronounced Millibin. Yeah, totally. He was evacuated to Wales
00:33:53
and then to Canada. And he got to live with his rich, like friends of family. That sounds nice.
00:34:02
Relatives, yeah, who are like crazy rich. But then when he came back to England,
00:34:06
when the war was over, he was sent to Eaton College. now I was thinking about this in my head but I didn't look look it up I think over there Eaton
00:34:17
is like a boarding school that's like grammar in high school it's not necessarily a college
00:34:23
like we think they have like finishing school right where like you pass your again where you
00:34:27
put a book on your head save it if you want to fucking email text us that were tweet us that
00:34:32
we're wrong finish it's like a someone in England tell us what Eaton no no I don't care okay I do
00:34:38
care. No, don't tell me. But I think it's... Like a finishing school. No, I'm going to keep saying
00:34:44
that till you agree with me. This time you said it like you'd been thinking about it and now you've
00:34:48
decided it's a finishing school. I think it's like high school and perhaps... Like a boarding school.
00:34:54
Yeah. Okay. Exactly. Anyhow... Finally, we agree. So when he was there, he supplemented his pocket
00:35:02
money with, he was a bookie. Oh, that's cool, right? Yeah, I think it's very cool. I do too.
00:35:09
He had a secret bank account. Oh my God. And he made money- As a kid? As a kid. My grandfather was a bookie. For real?
00:35:18
Yeah. Barber. The barbershop front. Barber quote, unquote. Bookie. Nice. Anyway, sorry. So this kid, he would leave the school grounds, go to horse races,
00:35:29
take bets, and he was like the school bookie. That's so cool. Love it. Well, the bad part, the uncool part is that he turned out to be a terrible compulsive
00:35:38
gambler later on. Take that back. But when he's a kid, that's cute. Yeah. So he got the nickname
00:35:44
Lucky Lucan after winning 26 pounds at the card game Chemin de Feu in Le Touquet None of that real None of it is meaningful to me in any way But he won a game a bunch of pounds And so that what made him think
00:36:07
I'm lucky and I should be doing this all the time. So when he got out of school,
00:36:16
he was in the army for a little bit and then he started a job as a merchant banker.
00:36:21
but he had very expensive tastes because he was still an aristocrat. His parents were very,
00:36:30
very, what do you call that? I was going to say staunch, but that's from Grey Gardens.
00:36:36
They didn't spend a lot of money. They were like religious. What's the word? When you try to,
00:36:46
I'm like making a gesture on my chest. Yeah, like frugal. Frugal. Frugal. There we go.
00:36:50
This gesture worked for me. How long did that fucking take? If this podcast is two hours long,
00:36:56
it's because we're trying to remember words. Neither of us can. Who could enjoy this?
00:37:00
I don't know. It's madness. Even Steven is like, can you get your fucking shit together?
00:37:06
Okay. So he had very expensive tastes because he was still an aristocrat at the end of the day.
00:37:13
And he was raised, you know, by rich people in North America. so he had taste for the best Russian vodka
00:37:21
he liked to race power boats and then from this lift in Wikipedia donate to Wikipedia by the way
00:37:29
if only just $3 oh can you donate to Wikipedia? is that a thing? they're kind of like public television right now
00:37:37
and they're trying to get people to give them money because they need to stick around
00:37:44
I have so many questions I mean, I love Wikipedia, but I won't ask them right now.
00:37:47
If you click on there right now, the thing will come up to say, please give us $3.
00:37:52
Okay. And then we'll do it. That's, yeah. I mean, it seems fair for all the shit they give me.
00:37:56
Oh my God. The hours I spent when I had the desk job looking at unsolved murders and serial killers.
00:38:03
Yeah. And, ugh. Love it. So anyway, this guy basically, he's living the life. He likes the best of all things.
00:38:10
I was just going to say, at the end of this sentence, they were like, he had the best
00:38:14
tastes. He loved the best, you know, he raced boats. He loved Russian vodka and smart cars,
00:38:20
which I think in England probably means smart, like cool cars. But here means tiny toy looking cars
00:38:28
that are the stupidest looking cars you could drive. I just time traveled too because those didn't exist.
00:38:34
Right. Like how cool would that be if you were just like... You're like, he invented the smart car.
00:38:37
Yeah. All right, anyway. He was also very charismatic. He was six foot two with a quote from Wikipedia,
00:38:44
a luxuriant mustache. Like Stephen's. And he was once considered to play the role of James Bond. Oh, shit.
00:38:54
So you see a picture of him on Wikipedia. He's pretty cute. He's very British, aristocratic looking. Kind of like
00:39:01
pointy nose. It's high class. It's a British thing. Pointy nose and kind of like
00:39:08
he looks like he'd be like, very good. Hey, man, my husband is the spitting image of Prince William.
00:39:13
So what am I going to? That's exactly right. Clearly I'm into British dudes. Yeah, no complaints.
00:39:19
Also, at one point, he was ranked among the top 10, the world's top 10 backgammon players.
00:39:28
So there you have it. That's kind of cool. Badass. Yeah. Talk about sex. I mean, I don't know what backgammon is exactly, but I bet it's hard.
00:39:35
It's, you know what it is? It's like chess for drunk people is what it is. All right.
00:39:42
It still sounds like I don't think I like chess for drunk people to me is like bingo.
00:39:47
Connect four is chess. That's right. For drunk people. Yeah. Bingo. Okay. So he meets his wife, Veronica Duncan at a golf club function and they get married on November 20th, 1963.
00:40:00
And when they get married, so Lord Lugan's finances when he was a young man and he was gambling so much,
00:40:08
it got a little iffy in there because he was just like going for it. And like, I'm in a boat race.
00:40:13
I have to have an Aston Martin. You know, he was like living the life and spending all that money.
00:40:18
So when he marries Veronica Duncan, his father gives him what was called a marriage settlement.
00:40:25
So he gets a big chunk of money to buy a house, to prepare for having kids, like this whole...
00:40:30
So he's basically kind of like up in the black again. Sexist. Got it. Two months after he gets married,
00:40:39
I called him Old Man Lucan. Old Man Lucan dies of a stroke. And so John Bingham inherits 250,000 pounds
00:40:47
and his father's titles, which are Earl of Lucan, Baron Lucan of Castlebar, Baron Lucan of Melcombe,
00:40:55
Lucan and Baronet Bingham of Castlebar. I don't know what any of this means. It's meaningless.
00:41:01
So. Cue the mean emails. It's not meaningless. It's super meaningless. don't shoot foxes right everybody uh okay so the problem is that he has a very serious gambling
00:41:16
problem so at first it was hot and cute and he's james bond and after a while it's like put the
00:41:20
fucking backgammon down what are you doing um and he's spending still spending money like an
00:41:26
aristocrat so he's like you know he's he's got a open account at savile row taylor's you know
00:41:32
what I mean? People are making bespoke clothing for him. Bespoke. Yeah. Look at you, Karen. I know.
00:41:38
I want to be rich really bad. Do you? Really bad. Really? Not just rich though. I want to be,
00:41:43
I want to be like Lord Lucan. I want to be an aristocrat. What would you do? What would you like? I guess I would just drink and smoke cigarettes all day.
00:41:54
Because you can be you can just do it at that point because Yeah you can you can kind of yeah you can just kind of well it the same thing you can do if you were basically a bum Remember that intervention where the woman had inherited so much money that she was like
00:42:06
why should I not be an alcoholic? And then they were going to take her to a rehab that was like a 14-hour...
00:42:11
Like a five-hour flight, but she insisted on getting a limo because she wanted to bring
00:42:14
her cats with her. So she put her cats in the limo. Oh, my God, it was the best.
00:42:19
Holy shit. She took a cat road trip? Yeah, she put cat boxes in the limo. Like she's me if I just had a shit head.
00:42:27
And like no one could say anything to her because like she wasn't going to lose anything.
00:42:31
Did it work? Did she get sober? I don't know if there's, maybe there's, hopefully there's a follow-up.
00:42:37
I don't know. Oh man. I stopped watching that because it's real depressing. It turns out she ate all those cats.
00:42:42
She got really drunk and then she got hungry and she ate those cats. Oh, it was poor baby.
00:42:46
I mean, sorry. Fucking right field. Loving it. Left field. There's a downside. To being an addict. I think we all know this. We've tried to tell you over and over.
00:42:57
Yeah. Okay. So he and his wife have three kids, George and Camilla, and a third one that for some reason
00:43:08
isn't on this list. You know, the youngest kid never matters. Am I wrong? Yeah. Seriously. I'm living that life.
00:43:14
That's why we're murder podcasters. Yeah. That's why we're doing what we do. So Veronica is struggling because she also has
00:43:21
three kids in this very short amount of time, of course. So she's struggling with postnatal
00:43:26
depression. Honey. And Lord Lucan takes her for treatment at a psychiatric clinic. She refused to
00:43:34
be admitted, but she did agree to home visits from a psychiatrist and taking a course of
00:43:39
antidepressants. So she's trying to take care of it, but she won't really go take a full break or
00:43:45
whatever. She's like, I can handle this. Well, then that combined with the pressures of maintaining
00:43:51
their finances and his, I mean, he, I read this thing. I didn't include it, but there was a thing
00:43:57
of like how he would spend his days. Oh my God. It's so hilarious. Cause he would like get up and
00:44:02
eat breakfast and then go to his gaming club and just gamble all afternoon. Yeah. And then he was
00:44:08
probably drinking too. Of course. And then he would come home and get dressed and then put on
00:44:13
like his tuxedo to go out. Reeking of cigarettes probably. Oh yeah. And you can't wash that off
00:44:17
after a while. And then he just went out to drink and eat and smoke and gamble more.
00:44:22
That was just, that's all he did all the time. I would have, that's not postnatal depression.
00:44:26
That's fucking depression. Yeah. That she had. Because she was like, what the fuck?
00:44:30
This is not what I fucking went to finishing school for. So basically in the, two weeks after a very strained
00:44:39
family Christmas in 1972, Lord Luke had moved out. And then they get into this bitter custody battle.
00:44:45
and the justice awards custody to Veronica. Divorce didn't happen back then. Yeah, it wasn't good.
00:44:54
And I'm sure for aristocrats. You could push him off the couch. Elvis is ripping up Karen's notes.
00:45:02
My precious writing. Okay, so she is awarded custody of the three kids and that's all he wanted.
00:45:12
And so- Why would he want just to fuck with her, right? Well, no, no, no. He really, I'm sure, really loved his children and it was very important to him.
00:45:19
But also, I think it was part of this thing that he didn't think she was a fit mother.
00:45:24
Knowing that she had postnatal depression, I think he was partly worried and then also partly he was an addict and needed to control things maybe.
00:45:33
I don't know. There's something going on. He gets awarded like every other weekend visit and he gets really obsessive about it.
00:45:41
So he starts spying on her to prove she's an unfit mother. He's recording their phone conversations.
00:45:49
He becomes fixated on her and what's happening. He also is, his drinking gets really bad and his gambling, he goes crazy with the gambling.
00:45:58
And all of his friends are like, he's in a downward spiral. and then all of a sudden
00:46:05
the week of November 7th in 1974 he seems to like suddenly pull it together and there's a couple
00:46:15
first hand stories of people who had dinner with him and they tried to talk to him about what's going on with the kids and he changes
00:46:23
the topic to politics and so they're like oh maybe he's rounded the corner maybe he's out of his system
00:46:28
so on the evening of November 7th, 1974, he had a bunch of plans with people that he just didn't show up.
00:46:40
And that night, the children's nanny, Sandra Rivett, puts the younger children to bed.
00:46:47
And at about 8.55, she asks Veronica if she'd like a cup of tea. And so she heads downstairs
00:46:55
to the basement kitchen. So there, that's a fucking sweet-ass mansion. Yeah. I'll go down to the maid's kitchen.
00:47:04
I'm not going to use your nice high class kitchen to make tea. So she goes downstairs to the basement kitchen
00:47:09
to make Veronica some tea. And as she enters the room, she is bludgeoned to death with a lead pipe,
00:47:16
a piece of bandaged lead pipe. And her killer places her body in a canvas mail sack.
00:47:25
So meanwhile, upstairs, Lady Lucan wonders what's delaying the nanny. So she walks down the first floor stairs to see
00:47:35
what's happened. And she calls from the top part of the stairs, she calls down to Rivet
00:47:41
and to see what's going on. And the guy comes up and attacks her with the lead pipe as well.
00:47:49
Oh my God. And she starts screaming for her life. The attacker tells her to shut up. And that's when Lady
00:47:55
Lucan knows, she tells the cops later that she knows it's right. her husband. So she survives. This guy's got like a mask on or something. I think the lights were
00:48:05
out. Like it was dark. So she's kind of calling down. She doesn't know what's going on. And then
00:48:09
this guy comes up and she thinks she's just getting attacked. And then she realizes it's
00:48:15
her husband, according to her. So they get into this fight. She bites his fingers.
00:48:21
He throws her face down in the carpet and she manages to turn around and squeeze his testicles.
00:48:26
Good girl. releasing Stephen. Stephen just really felt that. Causing him to release his grip on her throat
00:48:35
and give up the fight. She asks where Rivet is and Lucan was at first evasive then eventually admits that he just killed her.
00:48:45
So what they believe is that he thinks, he thought it was Veronica walking into the basement kitchen.
00:48:51
He was trying to kill his wife and he accidentally killed the nanny. so this is according to Lady Lucan
00:48:58
so Lady Lucan is terrified she tells him she'll help him escape if he would just
00:49:05
she's trying to get so she says I'll help you escape you just have to stay here for a couple days and hide out
00:49:12
and allow my injuries to heal because she's been hit with the lead pipe and everything
00:49:16
so she walks upstairs I'm sorry Lord Lucan the oldest daughter wakes up. So he goes to put her to bed. And then the wife, Veronica,
00:49:34
goes into the bedroom, lays down. She's bleeding. And he puts down towels for her and like,
00:49:41
don't get the bedding stained with blood. Weird. So he asks her, does she have any barbiturates?
00:49:48
he goes into the bathroom to get a towel and supposedly clean her face. And that's when Lady Lucan realizes that he won't be able to hear her if he's in the bathroom.
00:49:59
And so she runs out of the house. With her kids still there though? Yeah. But I think she knew that he didn't want that it was about her and that the attack was about her.
00:50:10
Because she also did report earlier that he had once hit her with a cane and once tried to push her down the stairs.
00:50:18
So there, he had gotten physical with her before, but he, I think she trusted that he wasn't going to harm their children.
00:50:25
Yeah, that's crazy. That's what it seemed like. So she runs out of the house and she runs to a nearby public house
00:50:34
called the Plumber's Arms. Oh, let's go get a drink there. We have to go to a pub called the Plumber's Arms.
00:50:41
So what, like big hairy arms with a tattoo? What kind of bulldog tattoo? Yeah, a bulldog.
00:50:48
would be good. Yeah. Or, um, an anchor, of course, of course an anchor, or maybe just a,
00:50:55
just a queen Elizabeth's face. I mean, she's a badass. Everybody loves her. Everyone loves. Okay.
00:51:00
Okay. So the police, she, they call the police, the police go to the house. Um, but meanwhile,
00:51:07
Lord Lucanus called his own mother and tells her of a terrible catastrophe that's happened at his
00:51:13
wife's home. He tells his mother, you have to come here and get the children. Then he
00:51:21
drives a borrowed car to his friend's house in Uckfield, East Sussex. And then hours later, he leaves that property, leaves the car there, and he's never seen again
00:51:36
and has never seen since. No. Swear to God. No. So that car was found. He's the one missing?
00:51:43
Yes. He's the one missing. He disappeared. He disappeared. No, I was not expecting that.
00:51:51
Yeah. James Bond is out and about. Dude. The car was found abandoned in New Haven
00:51:58
and the interior was stained with blood and the trunk had a piece, boot for those of our friends in England,
00:52:05
had a piece of bandaged lead pipe similar to the one found at the crime scene. So there's one that a nanny was killed with that was left at the crime scene.
00:52:14
And there's another one that's in this borrowed car. And we don't know what, why was all the blood in the car?
00:52:20
And we don't know what that led. He was covered in blood. Okay. And I don't know if there were two.
00:52:26
There's no explanation. It's just, I'm not sure. Holy shit. So, but then also he left a letter to the owner of the car that said, my dear Michael.
00:52:37
So he basically borrows this car from this guy. He's like, hey, can I borrow your car for a while?
00:52:40
And then just gets blood all in it, abandons it and leaves. He's crazy. And he says, my dear Michael,
00:52:46
I have had a traumatic night of unbelievable coincidence. However, I won't bore you with anything or involve you
00:52:53
except to say that when you come across my children, which I hope you will, please tell them that you knew me
00:52:58
and that all I cared about was them. The fact that a crooked solicitor and a rotten psychiatrist destroyed me between them
00:53:05
will be of no importance to the children. I gave Bill Shandkid, which is his brother-in-law, I gave Bill Shandkid an account of what actually happened.
00:53:15
But judging by my last effort in court, no one, yet alone a 67-year-old judge, would believe.
00:53:21
And I no longer care, except that my children should be protected. Yours ever, John.
00:53:27
So he's basically saying whatever happened at the house was some weird coincidence that he happened upon.
00:53:32
his excuse is that and I think there was a it was in a different letter that he walked into the house
00:53:38
and his wife was being attacked by an intruder which the wife is like no I'll tell you exactly
00:53:43
how it happened like step by step yeah and then also you can trace it all back to the car and the blood
00:53:49
and everything else point the fucking way so they put out a warrant for his arrest
00:53:53
a couple days later and in his absence the inquest into Rivett death named him as her murderer which was the last time ever that Britain coroner court was ever allowed to do that
00:54:09
So they were basically like, this guy did it. Oh, without a trial. Yeah. So a thorough search of New Haven Downs was judged impossible. I don't know if that's,
00:54:20
What's New Haven Downs? What's a thorough search? What's anything in this fucking world?
00:54:26
What is life? I pictured New Haven Downs to be just full of a bunch of brambles.
00:54:32
Charming as fuck. It's like the Moors, but brambly. Brambles everywhere. Brambles and scones or scones.
00:54:40
Scones. A partial search was made using tracker dogs. Although all that was found were the skeletal remains of a judge who had disappeared years earlier.
00:54:49
I'm sorry. What? Yes. Yes. So when they do search New Haven Downs, this impossible to search area,
00:54:56
they find skeletal remains of a judge. All right. Maybe how about once a year, you search New Haven Downs.
00:55:06
Get some fucking puppies out there. They love doing it. Give them a run around. It's fun for them.
00:55:11
Find a judge. Police diverged search the harbor. So basically they went everywhere
00:55:17
and tried to find this guy. This guy's more important than a fucking judge. That's right.
00:55:21
Clearly. He's a way bigger deal. Yeah. He is among the top 10 backgammon players in the world.
00:55:26
You have to find him. Must find him. They don't find... So basically, they can't find anything.
00:55:32
They used infrared photography. They don't... I don't see where or how. They used smart cars.
00:55:40
Smart phones. So a warrant for Lukin's arrest to answer charges of murdering Sandra Rivett
00:55:47
and attempting to murder his wife was issued on Tuesday, November 12th, 1974. And descriptions of his appearance
00:55:56
were issued to Interpol. So it could be Internacional. And of course, all across the UK.
00:56:06
So apparently it's since that time been a great British pastime to theorize where Lord Lucan is.
00:56:15
And people love saying they saw him places. so the reports have been coming in pretty consistently year after year
00:56:23
saying I saw Lord Luke in here or there and so some of the places they have reported
00:56:31
him seeing him was as a hippie dropout in Goa which I don't know where that is where he was known
00:56:38
they said he was known there as Jungle Berry as you do the best nickname of all time
00:56:45
they said he was about backpacking on Mount Etna. Someone said they saw him working on a sheep station
00:56:52
in the Australian Outback. Yeah. Those all sound like things people who run away from life would do.
00:56:57
Yeah, to get as far away as possible. Yeah, who are like trying to not have an identity anymore.
00:57:02
Right, which would make sense. Yeah. But John Aspinall, who was the owner of the Claremont Gaming Club,
00:57:09
which is the place he used to go like around lunchtime every single day, told the news,
00:57:14
I find it difficult to imagine him in Brazil or Haiti as a fugitive, I don't think he has the capacity to adapt.
00:57:22
Which is kind of rough. There was also a rumor, Aspinall owned a private zoo. And so there was a rumor that he was cut up
00:57:31
and fed to the tigers at that zoo. And Aspinall, when told that rumor, responded,
00:57:38
my tigers are only fed the choices cuts. Do you really think they're going to eat stringy old Lucky?
00:57:44
Oh my God. The most plausible theory is that he drowned himself in the channel. Yeah.
00:57:51
That's what most people think. Yeah. But here's, this is just an interesting, another coincidental thing.
00:57:59
13 years later, so when they had that nanny, Sandra Rivett was their nanny, but they had had a nanny right before her.
00:58:11
And her name was Christabel. I can't find her last name. Um, Christabel Bell. Uh, you don't see it, but her name is Christabel something or other.
00:58:26
And turns out she was married to an economist named Nicholas Boyce. And, um, on October 10th,
00:58:33
1985, Nicholas Boyce was sent to prison for dismembering his wife and dumping her pieces
00:58:38
of her body around London. So it was her. The nanny one before this one that got caught up
00:58:49
also was murdered by her fancy husband. So fancy husbands are just fucking running them up.
00:58:58
They went nutso crazy. Sure. Which I thought was, oh, and also they convicted him
00:59:05
of manslaughter, but not murder. and he was sentenced to six years in jail. Oh, that's no big deal.
00:59:11
No big. Just kill her and throw her arms and legs around the city. And then, yeah, so.
00:59:17
Cannot. That's the story. Oh, sorry. It was Christabel 32 was a former governess
00:59:22
of the children of Lord Lucan who vanished without a trace after another nanny was battered to death at his home.
00:59:29
Do you think he did it? What, killed? Lucan or whatever the fuck? Killed the second nanny?
00:59:35
The first nanny. Oh, hell yes. Wait, both nannies. No, no, no, no. The second one got killed by her husband.
00:59:41
Oh, okay. Later. Okay. That was later on. 13 years later, the second nanny gets killed
00:59:47
in what is a coincidence, but is super creepy because what the fuck is going on?
00:59:51
I thought it was the first, okay. Yeah, I know. But the first I sure the way everything adds up it just basically where did he go after Did he immediately kill himself or did he actually go He D Cooper Yeah Did he shave that luxuriant mustache off
01:00:06
and go live somewhere for a while? You could go anywhere you want back then. And also with all his money.
01:00:11
Oh, fine. And charming and, you know, Miss Dapper. He probably went to like Monte Carlo
01:00:15
or something. That's what I was thinking too. How old is he now? How old would he be?
01:00:20
He's dead. He's dead now. he was proclaimed to be dead. No, no, no. But like how old would he be?
01:00:27
Like in his, the article that I said where they proclaimed him dead, I think they said he was like,
01:00:33
would have been 81 or 82. That's livable, especially if you're living the fucking backgammon high life
01:00:38
and fucking Monte Carlo. Backgammon doesn't take that much out of you. No. Yeah.
01:00:42
No. And if you're just pickled with gin, you can live for a really long time. Bet you he's still alive.
01:00:49
I mean, it'd be pretty cool. We should make a rule that people have to confess stuff on their death.
01:00:53
Like on their deathbed, they have to confess things. Yeah. Like you're not, yeah.
01:00:58
That'd be nice. Wouldn't it? Just to solve a couple of mysteries. Yeah, like don't take shit to your grave.
01:01:02
Yeah. You're being a selfish dick. So that's my good times. That was amazing. High class murder mystery from England.
01:01:10
Never heard that one. Please let us know all the mistakes from that one as soon as you can.
01:01:16
Or don't. Or go, you know, every time you get mad at this podcast, go give $3 to Wikipedia.
01:01:23
We're going to solve all of Wikipedia's problems. Wikipedia's going to be like, they're going to be like, thank you.
01:01:28
We got an influx of thousands and thousands of dollars. So much money. Okay. And we're back from your story.
01:01:40
I still can't believe they just found a judge. Yeah. The skeletal remains of a judge, but okay.
01:01:46
I mean, wild. There are some updates for this story. Not on Lord Lucan, but Sandra Rivett had a son who she gave up for adoption when he was a baby.
01:01:57
So Neil Berryman didn't learn of his biological mother until she was an adult. But he did know that her death was one of the biggest murder mysteries of all time.
01:02:05
He believes Lord Lucan was the murderer and that he escaped to Africa. So he's continued to search for him, spent years working with former BBC investigative journalist Glenn Campbell.
01:02:17
not to be mistaken for the singer you can see that investigative journey on a bbc series from
01:02:23
2024 called lucan wow yeah so i feel like if his body was never found he was still alive
01:02:31
you know yes i just don't buy it also when people have money to run like they can do a lot yeah and
01:02:40
get away especially back then when there was no like internet no nothing yeah there was no like
01:02:45
CCTV footage and like facial recognition software, you're just fucking gone. And that guy, like he grows a pencil thin mustache or he maybe already had one, but he grows a
01:02:55
different kind of mustache and then just goes into the mountains like in France somewhere and he's
01:02:58
gone forever. Like, do you think it's better to disappear into like a crowded anonymous city
01:03:04
or a smaller like woodsy town city? Yeah. Right. I think like you get yourself a little walk up
01:03:12
apartment in the Lower East Side of New York. Yeah. And you dye your hair some weird color.
01:03:19
Nobody. Nobody will ever find you. Yeah, because if you're in a small town, you know everyone.
01:03:24
Everyone knows everyone. Some stranger coming into town is immediately suspicious just because
01:03:28
why would you move into this small town by yourself? Yes. Immediately people are talking
01:03:31
about you. If you're at the grocery store all of a sudden, they're like, who is this interloper?
01:03:36
Unless, what's that little like weird shanty town in like Joshua Tree? Oh, 29 Palms?
01:03:42
No, it's the army base. I don't know what you mean. Don't move to an army base. There's like a weird, it's like-
01:03:50
They'll totally be onto you in that army base for sure. It's like a 29 Palm, Salton Sea type of like town,
01:03:57
shanty town where like it's off of the grid. Oh, and people go there to get away.
01:04:02
That's what it, it's Slab City. Oh, I've heard of that. Yeah, it's like really like graffiti.
01:04:07
Then you can kind of live off the grid and live in your RV or, you know, your home that you made, your tent or your car. Is that where you'd go for your escape? Where
01:04:16
would you go to escape forever? I'm not telling anyone, but if you really wanted to find me.
01:04:20
Second choice. I guess, you know, maybe, yeah, maybe somewhere in Europe just to have something
01:04:25
new and exciting. Cause like, just be like, I'm going to Baltimore. It's like, I would,
01:04:30
I would be like, I want to go home now. Not that I don't want to be in Baltimore, but it's like
01:04:34
not different enough to be super exciting that you're on the run. Yes. It wouldn't feel like
01:04:39
hidden enough. I feel like I could definitely go to Pittsburgh. I would blend in perfectly.
01:04:44
Love the vibe there. All right. So I'll be in Baltimore. You'll be in Pittsburgh.
01:04:48
And we'll call each other on the phone and talk like this to each other. I don't know what this
01:04:53
accent is, but this is the one I'm going to use. It works. It works. How about we, all of us
01:04:59
listening, meet at the Plumber's Arms in London, which is still open. Still open. The Plumber's
01:05:06
arms. I mean, like, that's the beautiful part. Yeah. British pubs are kind of forever or at least
01:05:13
fight like hell to be forever. Right. Yeah. And they won't turn you in. That's some like. No.
01:05:19
Don't ask. Don't tell. Especially if you're good at trivia night. They would never turn you in.
01:05:23
Oh, also, just so you know, our writer, Alison Agosti, really did a bunch of research and trying
01:05:28
to find out what that pink brown lipstick color was from The Crown. That's amazing. And there's a
01:05:33
couple options. She thinks it's a Rodin Oleo Luso lipstick in a color So Mod. I've never heard
01:05:40
that lipstick name before. That sounds like for rich people. I've never heard of that.
01:05:45
But when you hear like a brand, like a high-end brand that you've never heard of, whether it's
01:05:48
like clothing or makeup. Yeah. It's like, oh, that's Hayley Bieber's favorite. Yes, exactly.
01:05:54
That something they sell at like Like a counter at Barney Yeah Barney counter Totally You not going to the Americana like Macy and fucking picking that up next to the Chanel counter No they won let you touch it actually
01:06:05
If you're anywhere near it, all the women that work there turn their back on you like French maids in the 1600s.
01:06:11
So now it's time to get into Georgia's story. The Summerhill Road Murders. while the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer Hyundai has its eyes on
01:06:26
the next generation of talent the future soccer stars who are already turning heads at age 14
01:06:30
making plays that end up on everyone's feed scoring from angles that don't make sense
01:06:34
rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust because next doesn't wait for an
01:06:39
invitation and Hyundai doesn't either Hyundai has always moved the future within reach Hyundai did
01:06:44
it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering EVs with
01:06:49
ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics
01:06:54
that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far
01:06:59
off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
01:07:05
If you're always on the lookout for a great audiobook or just want help figuring out what
01:07:09
to listen to next, there's a podcast you should know about. It's called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
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Each episode takes a closer look at some of the most talked about new audiobooks on Audible,
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If you're looking for your next listen, this is a great place to start. Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, on the iHeartRadio app,
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01:08:07
Ready for the Summer Hill Road Murders. Yes. Dude, this is one of those ones I've wanted to do for so long.
01:08:15
Okay. All right. Quick sips. Quick sip. So, Fayetteville, North Carolina. It's near Fort Bragg.
01:08:28
Let's talk about 1985. Okay. All right. So, that Sunday, May 12th, an Army sergeant named Bob Seafelt and his wife noticed that
01:08:39
the papers were piling up on their neighbor's doorstep. And they were like, what's going on?
01:08:44
That's bad. And you know what? We haven't seen her in a couple of days and her car is in the driveway.
01:08:49
Oh. The people that were living there was a woman named Catherine Eastburn. She was the mother
01:08:56
to five-year-old Kara and three-year-old Aaron, as well as Jana, who was 21 months.
01:09:01
her husband Gary Eastburn was away attending an Air Force captain in training school in Alabama
01:09:11
so he was out of town they knew that she's not fucking around what's going on they heard a baby
01:09:17
crying when they went to look at the house they look in a window and see Jana the 20 month 21
01:09:22
month old standing by herself in her crib her arms were outstretched to them that for some reason
01:09:28
And fucking Bob is like, let's wait till the cops get here before we break in. The cops get there.
01:09:35
They break in. They find Jana. She's severely dehydrated. So dehydrated. And when I fucking, I remember hearing this a while back that I think about it all the time.
01:09:44
Her teeth were black. Oh. And she had hours left to live. Oh my God. I know. They pass her through the window to the neighbor and then they go to look through the rest of the house.
01:09:54
so in the master bedroom they find the five year old Erin lying on the floor by the bed
01:10:01
her throat's been cut on the other side of the bed is Katie the mom she's bound with rope
01:10:09
her blouse and bra are pulled apart she's naked from the waist down her throat is cut
01:10:14
and she has multiple stab wounds to her body I know fucked up shit two doors down
01:10:22
from the bedroom. They find Kara, the three-year-old. It's really awful. She's stabbed to death as well.
01:10:34
She's under her blanket. It looks like she's almost like hiding under her blanket
01:10:38
and she's stabbed to death. And also Katie, the mom, was raped. All three had severed throats.
01:10:45
I know. Guess what day it was that they found her? Mother's Day, 1985. All right, so the witnesses.
01:10:55
So one neighbor says he saw a man leave their home at about 3 a.m. after the murders
01:11:00
are thought to have taken place based on the autopsy. She said she saw a white Chevette park
01:11:08
near the crime scene. Then a man who lived in the area named Patrick Cohn approaches and says that he saw a man
01:11:15
leaving the residence three nights before when the murder was supposed to happen.
01:11:19
And he says, quote, I was walking home from my girlfriend's house about 3.30 a.m. As I was walking, I saw a white Chevette parked on the road. Then I saw this white
01:11:28
dude walking down the lady's driveway. I passed right by him and he said, I'm getting an early
01:11:32
start this morning or something like that. Then I watched him get in his white Chevette and drive
01:11:37
off. He describes the man very thoroughly. He's six foot four, blonde. He had on a black beanie,
01:11:46
a black members only jacket, white shirt, blue jeans, was like carrying a bag over his shoulder.
01:11:55
It just makes me think of that. Did you see that graphic, that infographic where it said like...
01:12:00
in your life, you'll walk by a murderer 36 times. Yes. That's amazing. That was one of his.
01:12:05
Was it 36? I think so. Or so in the 30s. It was so, it's so high. I know. For that, it just made me think of that.
01:12:12
Oh, it's scary. It's horrifying. So three days after the murders, the cops find out that three,
01:12:19
that a couple of days before the family had been killed, they had put in a classified ad
01:12:25
to get their dog adopted because they were leaving the country. so this Katie is by herself at home and a man answers the ad and comes and gets the dog during
01:12:38
the day um and they're like who the fuck is this dude here's a composite sketch they put it on the
01:12:44
fucking news the man who adopted the dog his name is Tim Hennis was watching the news that night and
01:12:51
was like, shit, that's the dog we adopted. And I look a lot like that sketch. So he goes to the police.
01:13:01
He answers all their questions. He doesn't get an attorney. He gives them samples of hair, blood, semen, everything.
01:13:09
He's really cooperative. But he drives a white Chevette. Oh, no. Yeah. They let him go because they don't have enough evidence
01:13:17
to arrest him. But later the night, they go back with a warrant for him and arrest him.
01:13:24
So the night that they thought the mom and the kids got killed, so Tim Hennis had dropped his wife and their daughter off at his parent-in-laws.
01:13:37
Then he drives to an ex-girlfriend's house, propositions her. She shoots him down.
01:13:41
He says he went home, ate dinner, watched TV, and went to bed. the Friday morning,
01:13:47
they thought that was Thursday night, the morning after, he takes a single item to the dry cleaners,
01:13:53
a black members only jacket. Oh, dude. The only things that were stolen from the house,
01:13:59
it seems, are a debit card and some cash. And so $150 is taken out twice. That's the limit.
01:14:06
So $300. And it turns out that Tim Hennis is $300 short on rent, which he pays the Monday after these murders.
01:14:16
Then a woman identifies him as being the man she saw at the same time that she was there at the ATM.
01:14:23
All right, so a forensic expert goes in there. He, six months later, finds a condom package
01:14:32
undiscovered by the police underneath the dresser. So he fucking finds a condom wrapper.
01:14:37
Fuck. so according to him and his forensic expertise he says that the condoms suggest consensual sex
01:14:47
um because very rarely did did uh rapists carry condoms to commit their violent acts which i want
01:14:56
to fucking call bullshit on immediately yeah in the in the 80s they probably thought that but
01:15:00
of course you don't want to leave DNA or anything behind. I just don't think, I just hate that argument that, well,
01:15:09
if there was a condom on, then you had time to fight or it was consensual somehow.
01:15:14
Oh no. You know what I mean? Like that, that pisses me off. Well, yeah, that's insanity.
01:15:18
That's what he says. He said that, so the man, Paul Stombach, concludes that the murders were committed by two assailants
01:15:29
and that the little girls might have been killed because they could identify the killer.
01:15:33
But he says, someone said that they were killed because they could identify the killer.
01:15:37
But he says that the girls were asleep when they got killed. Okay. So this dude, Tim Hennis, goes to trial
01:15:51
and the jury returns with a guilty verdict and he's sentenced to three life sentences.
01:16:00
Oh, shit. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm sorry. He's sentenced to death three times. Oh, my God.
01:16:06
Yeah. Because they're pissed. They're like, you killed little girls. Yeah. Yeah.
01:16:11
Setting an example. Right when he's getting booked, he receives a postcard, this guy Tim Hennis,
01:16:17
from someone calling themselves Mr. X. And it says, Dear Mr. Hennis, I did the crime.
01:16:23
I murdered the Eastburns. sorry you're doing the time. I'll be safely out of North Carolina when you read this.
01:16:29
Thanks, Mr. X. Fuck you, Mr. X. Right? Who is that? And the prosecution got that too.
01:16:36
Who is that? Who is that, Mr. X? So he's on death row for two years. And then the defense
01:16:44
is arguing to get him out of, you know, to get his conviction overturned. They argue that the
01:16:48
crime scene photos that the jury saw were so gruesome and awful that it swayed the jury's
01:16:56
decision. And his conviction is overturned in 1989. And he gets sent back for a retrial.
01:17:05
So he's convicted and then it's overturned and he goes back for a retrial. Sorry, but how can a picture sway, like just having to look at that, there was no way that
01:17:17
they could then go from there and make a decision. They put up these huge photos of it, you know,
01:17:22
over his head and were hammering, you know, the, the crime scene photos, the autopsy photos of
01:17:29
little girls were hammering at home and saying that, you know, there was no, there was no way
01:17:36
the jury would, would not want to convict someone for doing this stuff. Well, and also the jury was
01:17:41
traumatized by having to be a part of that. Yeah. I feel so bad for those people. So, I mean,
01:17:46
what do you think about that being overturned on those based on that? I mean, you know,
01:17:52
it just immediately makes me think of the staircase and like those people where when we think of like the prosecutor you give them all this credit Like you think oh these are going to be people who are presenting a fair case fairly as opposed to people who have immediate bias and want to win their case
01:18:08
An agenda. Anything to do it. Yeah, totally. I mean, and if you think about the evidence against him, we really don't have anything
01:18:17
other than, you know, some witness statements and the fact that he was there a couple days
01:18:23
beforehand, getting the dog. Yeah. He has no alibi that night. It's bad news for him because
01:18:30
it's almost like you were presenting it in a way where I was like, oh, this poor guy. But then the
01:18:34
more things you said, I was like, it's totally that guy. How could you? It's so obvious. Yeah.
01:18:38
It's the Occam's razor thing where it's like this. There's no, it's not, it can't be a coincidence.
01:18:43
Well, that's why I love this case. It's fucking, it gets worse. Okay. Don't worry. It gets worse.
01:18:48
so at his second trial all the witnesses are wishy-washy and the prosecution argues this
01:18:56
and they break under pressure and so it's kind of all convoluted and then the defense for Tim
01:19:04
Hennis were able to find a dude who okay so this dude would walk the neighborhood late at night
01:19:15
he was 6'4 same height as Tim Hennis. And he admitted to always wearing a members only jacket,
01:19:24
a black beanie, a white t-shirt and dark corduroy pants and carrying a book bag over his shoulder.
01:19:28
He walks in the courtroom. He's a spitting fucking image of Tim Hennis. No. Yes.
01:19:34
No. Yes. All right. Spitting image. Somehow this dude, A, agreed to fucking do this.
01:19:40
Yeah, that's what I was going to say. Wouldn't you be like, I think it's time for me to move to San Francisco.
01:19:45
Goodbye. So Tim Hennis acquitted on all counts. Conviction overturned, acquitted.
01:19:54
Now, sorry, but they're not, they didn't prosecute that guy. They were just saying it's possible.
01:19:59
Yeah, they saw someone else. They kind of like, all the eyewitnesses, they were able to discredit for whatever reason.
01:20:07
Okay. So there was nothing really tying him to the murder. And members only jackets were crazy popular in 1985.
01:20:16
That's true. I was 15. Tall blonde men wearing members only jackets. Oh my God. There were so many.
01:20:21
Everywhere. Yeah. Okay. Let's go. All right. This is 89. Let's go to 2007. Okay.
01:20:28
DNA is a thing now. Thank God. Thank fucking God. So there's DNA inside Kate, the mom who had been raped.
01:20:39
Although they didn't specifically say that she had been forcibly raped. Right, because the condom theory.
01:20:47
But there was semen inside of her. Right. So the condom could have nothing to fucking do with any of this.
01:20:53
The results of the DNA test from the semen inside of Kate showed with 12 million to one certainty
01:21:03
that the semen belonged to Tim Hennis. Oh, no. Right, but he had already been acquitted.
01:21:12
Oh, no. So motherfucking double jeopardy, right? So double jeopardy is prohibited by the Fifth Amendment.
01:21:23
It means that you can't get tried for something that you'd already been acquitted for.
01:21:26
Yes. Which seems like it needs to be fucking fixed and it's stupid, but... No, no, no.
01:21:33
I mean, considering DNA now, like... Well, in this situation, but that's... No, it's a good law because it's like saying
01:21:39
they can't just keep on coming at you and being like, we believe it's you. Like if they've proven, yeah, if you've gone through it.
01:21:47
But in a perfect system, when those prosecutors go to the judge with new evidence,
01:21:51
the judge will, you know, judge that evidence and say whether or not it's, you know,
01:21:59
it's worth a new trial. But they'll never be a perfect system because it's a human system.
01:22:04
I know that's the problem with life. So you can't just keep on going like, well, here we're going to do it again.
01:22:09
And this time it's going to be, because then it could just be like, if you had a crazy prosecutor that won't leave you alone.
01:22:14
Well, guess what? They did it a third time. What? They took him to trial. How? Well, I'll fucking tell you.
01:22:22
How, I ask, as if I'll never find out. I don't know. I don't know. This is the end of my story.
01:22:29
Okay, so Tim Hennis had been a soldier in the U.S. Army. so the the state can't try him
01:22:41
but the army can the military can because he'd been a soldier the US army could and the federal government
01:22:49
is a sovereign authority separate from the individual states that make up the country
01:22:53
okay so Tim at this time Tim Hennis who's 49 years old retired as fuck from the army
01:23:00
just chillaxing chill on his fuck murdering entire family So he's retired and this is a big fucking point of contention. He is ordered out of retirement
01:23:10
and back into active duty just so they could court martial him for the murders. Shit.
01:23:16
Yeah. Seems unfair. Right. I mean, just if devil's advocate, if he was innocent.
01:23:23
Unprecedented. Yeah. And this argument of like, who has final say? Are you bigger than the fucking, you know,
01:23:32
it's government shit. It's government shit. If the government wants you, they're going to get you.
01:23:36
You fucked. So at the fucking court martial trial, his attorney, Tim Hennis' attorney brings up the
01:23:45
possibility because they had found semen in her vagina that maybe they had had consensual sex,
01:23:51
even though he had never admitted to that. And he didn't say that. The attorney did. And the
01:23:54
fucking jury was like that what you bringing up now So they find him guilty on three counts of premeditated murder But guess what The statute of limitations had expired on rape so he didn get
01:24:06
can we please talk about statute of limitations on rape? I feel like they're getting rid of that.
01:24:12
I feel like there's some states where they've gotten rid of it. Yeah. It's in action, I believe.
01:24:17
It's just, I just want to bring it up how fucking disgusting that is. No, you're exactly right.
01:24:21
It just makes me sick. In the same exact way that it's disgusting that Mike Pence wants women to-
01:24:29
Have funerals for their fetuses? Have funerals for miscarriages. Miscarriages. It's truly insanity.
01:24:36
It's hurtful and mean and fucking- It's spiteful and it's assuming it's just so controlling and insane.
01:24:44
It's so controlling. Okay. Found guilty. So now he's on death row, like right fucking now.
01:24:53
This was in 2010. He's on death row in an army facility in Fort Leavenworth, Kansas.
01:24:59
Okay. Now let's get to a couple of random things before we decide everything. Okay.
01:25:03
Okay. Okay. So in his case, there's no blood, fingerprints, or fiber evidence that connects him to the
01:25:09
murder. And he has an alibi for the ATM visit, which is a little shaky. I'm not saying he didn't do it.
01:25:15
I'm just saying like, here's some weird shit. I really don't know. Right. two former FBI assistant directors released a report
01:25:24
concluding that the unit that had tested his DNA and found that it was in her vaginal swab
01:25:33
that they had overstated, misreported, or withheld blood evidence in dozens of cases,
01:25:42
including three that ended in executions. Oh, no. Oh, they, okay. This quote, they had to throw out cases and cases
01:25:53
because the results were either doctored, wrong or covered up. The lab was shown to be a total tool
01:25:58
for the state's prosecutors. Oh no. Right? Wait, and this was in, sorry, this was in North Carolina?
01:26:04
Yeah. Okay. Or Kansas. One. I don't want to be wrong. You started in North Carolina.
01:26:10
Yeah, but now, but he's in Kansas. Oh, because of the army. Got it, got it. All right.
01:26:15
So let's really- So basically they're just like, we're going to send this off to here
01:26:19
and get exactly what we want back. Yeah. And they're proven to be incorrect, but we're not going to check back in with those crimes.
01:26:27
And I'm pretty sure those swabs were held in a box that were unrefrigerated, that on the box of evidence said Tim Hennis's name,
01:26:36
not the name of the murder victims. Like they were already fucking targeting him.
01:26:41
They were focusing on him. This is what they wanted to find. Okay. All right. So finally, I just want to talk about Julie, who was the family babysitter of the
01:26:55
three little girls. When they interviewed her, she told the cops that the residents had been
01:27:03
targeted with harassing phone calls, some of the sexual nature. And she said two other things,
01:27:09
that her stepbrother strongly resembled Tim Hennis and even showed them photos of it,
01:27:14
and that she had been assisting the vice squad in setting up bus for local drug dealers.
01:27:20
And she even said on one occasion that she'd been followed home from the Eastburn residence
01:27:25
by an angry drug dealer. Okay, but here's the coolest thing. Not coolest, but like more.
01:27:31
So she admits to her fascination. She's like a 16-year-old, a fascination with Dr. Jeffrey McDonald.
01:27:38
Fatal vision. Is that what's that? It's the one who was accused, right? Yeah, yeah.
01:27:44
So he's a military officer. He claims a band of drug-crazed, long-haired hippies
01:27:49
broke into his home while he was sleeping on the couch, murdered his pregnant wife
01:27:54
and two and five-year-old daughters. Yes. Sounds familiar, right? Yeah, yeah. While he, upstairs,
01:28:02
he's convicted of the slayings, sentenced to death. At the time of the murders, the family,
01:28:08
it was 1970, so it was clearly, you know, 15 years difference. But at the time of the murders,
01:28:13
the McDonald family lived four and a half miles from the fucking Eastburn home. What?
01:28:19
Yeah. And this girl who was the babysitter of these three little girls was fascinated and writing
01:28:24
him letters and they were communicating in prison. And her fucking siblings looked exactly like these guys.
01:28:31
And she believed he was innocent. They wrote all the time. They had, the DEA had set up a drug deal using Julie, this girl, Julie, and the victim's
01:28:43
house that weekend that fell through and the murders happened. No way. Right. She was obsessed
01:28:50
with him apparently. She was obsessed with Jeffrey McDonald. Yeah. Dr. Jeffrey McDonald. Yeah.
01:28:56
Wait, that girl. Okay. The babysitter's like, what a rich life she's living because she's setting up
01:29:00
like she's trying to do like drug stings. Yeah. I mean, and she's 16. Yeah. Jesus Christ. I know,
01:29:07
right now also does she was that a secret to the family that she's like setting these stings up for
01:29:15
I don't think the family knew but she like fucking blabbed to the cops immediately about all this
01:29:20
stuff oh my fucking god I know right like the it's just too crazy that that the murders are so
01:29:28
similar what's your theory like with all of that oh well I'm just saying do you think he's innocent
01:29:34
or guilty. You know me, I can go fucking either way. I think it's that thing of like, I don't know
01:29:42
if he's involved or not, but I don't know if he should be in prison or not. I don't know. I don't
01:29:49
know It too circumstantial to me And the fact that they didn get DNA until 2007 especially if there was a condom wrapper and that was their theory Was it a common wrapper or was it a used condom I think it was a condom wrapper So it was just basically proof that there was a condom somewhere in play
01:30:07
Yeah. And the forensic guy was like, I don't know the sex life between the husband and wife,
01:30:11
but this was there. Right. So if you're introducing a condom wrapper and semen, oh, and, oh no, wait, hold on.
01:30:21
There was like a towel that had blood on it. There were all these, there was a shoe print that was a size nine and Tim was a size 13 in blood.
01:30:30
There was all these, it points to at least, I know there are more than one, there's more than one murderer.
01:30:39
Yeah. Or more than one person. Yeah. So either he did it with someone else or, you know, someone thought there was money in the house.
01:30:48
They knew this woman was alone. the thing to me the idea of killing children slashing
01:30:58
stabbing children to death and slashing that's a person who is beyond like right
01:31:03
that's a person that is that's no that's a person that's not motivated by money or drugs
01:31:08
because I feel like those people or that has to be a person that's maybe on drugs
01:31:13
bare men and then you think about the fact that they left the 21 month old alive
01:31:18
because she couldn't identify anyone. And you think, okay, at first I was like, well, they must know the assailant.
01:31:23
They must know the killer. Otherwise he wouldn't have had to, you know, if they just went in there
01:31:26
to rob and rape and even kill the mother. Right. They, unless, but then the forensic dude said that
01:31:35
they were sleeping, which I don't completely buy because I guess she was like cowering under her
01:31:39
Star Wars blanket. I know, which is heartbreaking. Well, yeah, I mean, it's like, you don't,
01:31:45
why? Why? You don't kill children if you're just... Right. Because even burglars are just like,
01:31:53
I just want to steal shit. You don't kill children. You don't go from stealing fucking
01:31:58
money to killing children. Right. And you don't... If you're retaliating against someone like a
01:32:05
stool pigeon, who is this 16-year-old girl, what does a five-year-old have to do with that? And
01:32:11
And then, and who has the fucking like ice colds in their veins to be able to kill two
01:32:18
children and the mother? And then why would you leave the third child? Like all of it is like so random.
01:32:26
It just, to me, what makes sense is that the girl told information to the wrong people.
01:32:33
Maybe she had nothing to do with it and she was obsessed with it. I mean, maybe she did.
01:32:37
The fact that she was obsessed with this killer who killed, who maybe killed, you know, and that's a whole nother fucking my favorite murder.
01:32:44
Because I think we've both talked about that one. How Errol Morris thinks he's innocent.
01:32:48
Yeah. Yeah. I mean, that's a whole fucking episode. But it's too similar to the fucking murderer she was obsessed with.
01:32:56
Right. And maybe he's not the murderer and or innocent man she's obsessed with. Yeah.
01:33:01
Because there is the... But why? But they're still the same. They're still so similar.
01:33:04
Yes. Very similar. That's crazy. Now, it's such a personal thing to stab somebody to death.
01:33:12
It's such an angry thing and such, as we all know, that's like a personal attack.
01:33:17
Has the husband in any way been introduced into this mix? No, Gary is a fucking saint and a good guy.
01:33:25
He raised Jana. She's fucking amazing and wonderful. He had nothing to do with it.
01:33:33
Right, right. Okay, for sure. I know. It seems like he should and you'd look into it, but I don't, I really don't think he does.
01:33:39
They always, you know, the husband, the husband's the first person. Totally. And then I wonder like, okay, so stabbing is a really personal thing.
01:33:46
And that, but that's, that's not as gruesome as something like slitting someone's throat.
01:33:54
Like those are two very different fucking actions. Oh, but I would argue it's more gruesome because you can-
01:34:00
Which one? Stabbing. Because it's repeated. whereas letting someone's throat, you can do it and walk away
01:34:05
and know that they're going to bleed out and die. Yeah, but have you ever like punched someone
01:34:10
and you're like, I really like mid punch. You're like, I don't want to do this. And so you kind of do it like weekly, like week.
01:34:18
No? No. I mean, I've never punched anyone. I don't think. Oh, go ahead. Get me in the face, Carrie.
01:34:25
Let's do an experiment right now. Let's do it now. Ugh, I don't know. But I mean, wasn't it multiples?
01:34:29
I mean, this is insane. To cut someone's throat hard enough to fucking kill them,
01:34:33
I feel like takes more effort than someone who doesn't really want to be doing this.
01:34:39
You know what I mean? Like I know a dude who got fucking- Right, but if you don't want to be doing it,
01:34:42
you're not going to then lightly stab multiple times. Like that's the thing is it wasn't,
01:34:47
if it were to me, a slashing someone's throat is similar to, it's like you don't have a gun.
01:34:52
It's similar to like a kill shot in the back of the head where you're just getting it over with.
01:34:57
Yeah, you must incapacitate them by stabbing them. Yeah. And then you slit their throat to just fucking end it.
01:35:03
But the stabbing part is the part where you get involved. And that's why, why would you even go through that unless you want to?
01:35:10
Yeah. Unless you're okay with the idea of fucking stabbing a human. Also, she kind of looked like my mom.
01:35:21
The mom? Kate did, yeah. Had that like... 70s mom hair? Yeah. Yeah. Sorry, go on.
01:35:29
No, no, no. No, I'm just thinking like, it's just so crazy. The fact that they had two witnesses for a person
01:35:35
that was leaving the house at 3 a.m., you know what I mean? And also how can it be that many coincidences
01:35:40
where it's like he was there, he had the same car, he had the same clothes. He went there a couple of days before,
01:35:48
knew she was alone in the house. Yeah, that's not good for him. I don't think so either.
01:35:52
It doesn't, the coincidences that would have to happen for that to happen are fucking insane.
01:35:58
he gets what people think online like web sleuths is like the coolest fucking website and they're like discussing it.
01:36:04
Which is all over killing season, by the way. It's there like they talk about web sleuths the
01:36:09
whole time. Oh, that's awesome. Yeah. So they're like, well, he went to his ex-girlfriend's house
01:36:14
that night, got turned down for boning and was like horny as fuck, knew a woman who was home
01:36:19
alone, went over there, she turned him down and he fucking flipped. Yeah. That's the theory.
01:36:26
Yes. And he's like enraged at women. He's like on a mission. But he's never, according to everyone else,
01:36:35
the rest of his life, he's been a fucking decent human being. Right. He does have some check forging charges,
01:36:45
but that's not the same thing as... Oh, but that's something. Is it? Well, it's not a totally clean record.
01:36:51
That's not being like a decent human being. them. That means check forging is like you're willing to cheat to get money. Yeah. That's
01:36:58
something. I feel like that's the way some people start. Yeah. And then you need to cover your
01:37:04
tracks and shit. Yeah. Oh my God. I don't know. That's crazy. I don't fucking know. And horrible
01:37:10
in so many ways. Those poor little babies. Oh, that's what I wanted to end on actually,
01:37:14
is that I wanted to end with talking about the victims because it's like, I don't want to end
01:37:20
on this fucking dick. So Gary, the dad, the father and the dad, the tombstones that he had them etched with.
01:37:28
So Aaron, okay, so Aaron, who's three years old, he had Tiny Dancer written on her tombstone.
01:37:42
For Kara, who was five, he had Daddy's Little Shadow. And for Catherine, his wife,
01:37:47
he had, you were the sunshine of my life. I just wanted, I just didn't want to end on
01:37:54
something that wasn't tragically sad. I just wanted to mention them at the end. No, totally. You know what I mean? Of course. I mean, yes, absolutely. But no, that's. Karen,
01:38:07
please, please tell me what happened. Okay. Here's what happened. Please. Oh my God. That guy got a
01:38:11
dog and that dog was a piece of shit and he was pretty pissed off. Yeah. And that's it.
01:38:17
this theory falls apart. No, this is, that's maddening. And it's the kind of thing when it
01:38:22
introduces the idea that DNA evidence can't be trusted, that the system can't be trusted,
01:38:27
that an entire prosecutor's office can't be trusted, then it doesn't really matter what
01:38:31
answers you come up with because nothing ever feels like an answer. To me, the period on the
01:38:37
sentence is that there is so many other DNA hits in that house that there's no way that the story
01:38:46
they're telling us is what happened. Blood on a towel from like after killing them. It looks like
01:38:55
it was cleaned up. There's a pubic hair in the fucking living room. There's bloody footprints.
01:39:01
There's fibers and DNA under two of their fingernails that don't match to him. Oh. There's DNA under their fingernails. And for some reason,
01:39:13
and they refuse to put it through CODIS. That's very weird. Isn't it? Because they don't want to introduce something
01:39:20
that doesn match Yeah Oh man Hey So yeah that the Summer Hill Road murders that has fucking stuck with me for years and years
01:39:31
That's crazy. That's amazing. Yeah. Wow. Hi. Hi, how are you? I'm ruined. How are you?
01:39:41
Yeah, not great. No. Well, fascinating though. Yeah, isn't it? Well, because they are, I just was reading something recently about how, I think it's the hair evidence.
01:39:55
Was it hair evidence? Something is becoming more reliable than fingerprint. Something's more reliable?
01:40:03
Yeah. Like they're starting to say the fingerprint evidence might not be as reliable as they thought.
01:40:08
Oh my God. Basically, I think obviously we know that forensic science is still developing.
01:40:15
Oh my God, yeah. But I just wish it would move ahead quick so we could just find out.
01:40:20
Because that's the confidence of DNA evidence being the final word. Yeah. That's why everyone goes,
01:40:26
okay, well, sorry, but it's DNA evidence, so goodbye. Nothing we can do about it.
01:40:29
Instead of knowing that humans deal with that DNA from the moment it is picked up as evidence at the scene,
01:40:35
it's being picked up by a human to when it's tested in the lab. To a lab being like owned by a prosecutor's office.
01:40:43
It's like, that's just horrifying. I, this is why I think that double jeopardy in the age of DNA and retesting and the Innocence Project and all this, we might need to rethink that.
01:40:55
I don't think so. No. Well, because it's like saying you get the one chance. Well, it's, yeah.
01:41:01
So it's so shitty that like, you know, all these, all these defense attorneys or, sorry, all these prosecutors and cops, you know, when they can't bring a trial, they can't bring someone to trial because they don't have the body, you know?
01:41:15
so they have to wait until they find the body. Right. It's just... Dude, I don't know.
01:41:21
So you let this person go free or do you try to fucking... Do you try without a body to convict them?
01:41:27
I mean, yeah. You have to do something. Yeah. And if it doesn't go well, then in 10 years when the DNA can be tested
01:41:33
or the body is found and the DNA is tested and it matches, then you should be able to fucking retry them.
01:41:40
I disagree. I know. Punch me in the face. You'll see. That'll prove it. Yeah. All right.
01:41:48
Forensic scientists out there, keep doing what you're doing. Angels. Shout out. Tell us things that we did wrong.
01:41:54
Yeah, we don't know what the fuck we're talking about. It sounds cool though. Ours are all just feelings.
01:41:59
So many feelings. Do you want to say a good thing from your week? Do I have one?
01:42:07
Do I have a good thing from my week? What do you have? No, no. That's like when you're trying to order in a restaurant.
01:42:15
And it's like, no, you can go ahead. You go first. You go ahead. You go first. Okay, tune them out.
01:42:23
Tune them out. God. Well, you know, we, last night, Alison Agassi and I went and saw the movie Delicatessen,
01:42:33
which is... Oh, that's a good movie. It's from like the late 80s, I think, or the early 90s.
01:42:38
Yeah, that's a fucking art house film. It's a total art house film. And we saw it at CineFamily.
01:42:43
I guess CineFamily would be my thing of the week because it makes me feel smart to go there and like a film person Film I into film And but then also they have just amazing movies where when you sitting there you go oh that why you have to see these movies on the big screen
01:43:00
Yeah. And Delicatessen was like the greatest. That's great. I guess, well, last week was Thanksgiving.
01:43:09
And I guess just my family and I had the like lamest best Thanksgiving and it was awesome and so stupid.
01:43:16
and not fake. And my like year old nephew is there and he's the best fucking thing I've ever
01:43:22
seen in my life. Kids are the greatest. Oh, he's an angel baby as is my six year old nephew,
01:43:27
but you know, he's not a baby. No, he's moved into a different area. Yeah, but he's great too. So I guess nephews. Okay. Nephews.
01:43:34
Nice. Yeah. All right. Well, rate, review, subscribe. Yeah, please. I mean, we're not,
01:43:41
that's not just fucking lip service. Please actually do that. That's not our lip service to you.
01:43:47
Fake asking. We're genuinely asking. Yeah, if you don't mind, that'd be great. And just...
01:43:53
And just stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, you want a cookie? Oh.
01:44:00
You want a cookie? He was sleeping. Okay, bye. Bye. Goodbye. And we are back. That story is like the definition of the line, don't worry, it gets worse.
01:44:19
Yes, you literally said it during the episode. And it is like, it starts terrible and just devolves from there.
01:44:27
It does. It's one of those frustrating ones where you're like, I'm not totally sure what happened because everything is so convoluted and it didn't have to be that way.
01:44:36
Yeah, but it is. Any updates on this? Yeah, there are some random facts that I want to update everyone on.
01:44:41
And this one for condoms and rape case investigations on that topic, the criminal justice system began widely acknowledging that some rapists use condoms during their attacks in the 1990s.
01:44:52
They acknowledge that as forensic science evolved and more cases highlighted this tactic.
01:44:57
But before the 1990s, the absence of semen sometimes led investigators to doubt whether an assault had even occurred, which we argue about in this case, or assume the attacker failed to ejaculate, which is just a wild assumption either way.
01:45:10
that should not be made at all. And then as far as the statute of limitations goes on rapes,
01:45:17
several U.S. states have eliminated the statute of limitations for rape and other felony sex crimes.
01:45:22
Thank fucking God. Like, that needs to be worldwide. And the list is ever-changing, so check out reign.org
01:45:31
for a complete state-by-state guide. And as part of the Justice for All Act of 2004,
01:45:36
or federal crimes like rape on federal land or military bases, there's no limitation if DNA
01:45:43
evidence is involved. So that's a nice update. Yeah, that's good. So regarding the case with
01:45:49
updates, Timothy Hennis continues to sit on death row. His lawyers have filed appeals
01:45:53
challenging the Army's jurisdiction and citing constitutional double jeopardy prohibitions.
01:45:58
They also filed a writ for certiorari with the U.S. Supreme Court. But as of 2021,
01:46:04
all of these have been denied. Okay. Well, let's talk about our favorite part of this episode,
01:46:12
which is truly the name Funky Diva the story of Funky Diva the history with Funky Diva Georgia life at Funky Diva perhaps our sliding doors moment where we were both at Funky Diva at the same time
01:46:23
That's right. I believe that happened. I believe it's real. I bet it did. For sure.
01:46:29
Red string theory of like you're over here with your choker trying to ring some people up. I'm over there looking at ringer T-shirts and trying to figure out a new joke for my set.
01:46:40
That definitely happened. Right? So it should be named Funky Diva, but let's say we were going to change the name today to name it something updated.
01:46:48
Maybe the wrong PCAST, we could call it. The funniest thing of me loving it and then you going like, it's Vince's.
01:46:54
Like admitting it immediately is the funniest because that's the funniest jokes that I ever say are always just my friends saying that I heard them say.
01:47:02
Which I feel so guilty. I can't do it. I mean, I love that you called yourself out, but it's so hilarious because it's like something as simple as PCAST.
01:47:09
You're like, Vince made that up. I can't. Yeah. Of course, we could also name it Orange Junko Jeans.
01:47:15
Or if you want to, Orange Junko Jeans. It has to be incorrect. No, it has to be incorrect.
01:47:20
That's how I like it. And then my question to you always, how about we could call it, is it British?
01:47:28
And the answer is always yes. Capital yes. Always yes. That was a great episode.
01:47:33
Yeah, you guys, thanks for listening to, again, thanks for listening a second time maybe to this episode and the first time to this episode of Rewind.
01:47:41
Re-analysis, just really getting in there and taking a fine-tooth comb to this podcast.
01:47:46
What a great celebration of our work. What could go wrong? Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
01:47:53
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