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This is exactly right. Isn't some far off concept? It's already here. Next starts now.
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00:01:36
Hello and welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstark. That's Karen Kilgareth.
00:01:50
And this is that true crime podcast that your sister told you about 10 years ago.
00:01:55
And that you finally listened to. Or haven't? If you haven't, how are you hearing this right now?
00:02:01
Do we sound funny? Is this funny? It's a Zen cone. She said we were funny. She said we were supposed to make you laugh, but too bad.
00:02:08
How's it going? Good. How are you? Good. I just binged Ione Skye's new memoir, Say Everything.
00:02:15
So I'm in that kind of this 80s mentality, like 80s tell-all everything mentality.
00:02:23
And how is that mentality affecting your life? I'm being very vulnerable, I think.
00:02:27
and I want to sleep with John Cusack, but that's it. I think that's the way to go though.
00:02:31
Right? When I first saw Better Off Dead when I was like 14 years old, it was like the humor where I was like,
00:02:38
oh, there are other people that think weird shit is funny. Yeah. And then him in the middle of all that,
00:02:43
because I'd first seen him as a nerd in 16 Candles. And I think this was right after that.
00:02:50
Yeah. Because he's a little older, a little taller. And I was just like, this guy is it.
00:02:56
He is, I think many, many girls in the 80s were just like, it was like, he was cute, but he wasn't Rob Lowe intimidating.
00:03:04
And he was super funny and super real. And he seemed a little sad. It was like all the things you love.
00:03:10
Yeah, it's like accessible. However, it's hard to look at. I mean, she tells all you would love it.
00:03:16
I think it's a really good, vulnerable, like, honest book. And she's really weird, too.
00:03:21
So I feel like it speaks to me in a I want to be a cool girl way. Yeah. Don't we all?
00:03:28
I mean, she is. Wasn't she married to talk about cool girl? Wasn't she married to was it Diamond Mike D from the Beastie Boys or was it Adam?
00:03:36
She was married to Mike D. Yeah. I mean, like her and Kathleen Hannah. Get cooler than that.
00:03:42
How much cooler do you want to be? God. Yeah. What about you? Anything you're binging?
00:03:47
Well, it was just my 55th birthday, which is the Sammy Hagar birthday. What does that mean?
00:03:55
I can't drive 55. It's the Sammy Hagar hit. Speaking of the 80s, if you want to talk about the 80s.
00:04:00
Happy birthday. Thank you. It was nice. I went to Petaluma. It was on Mother's Day.
00:04:05
So I have a holiday birthday. It happens. That's hard. And it's not great when your mom's dead.
00:04:11
So there's a little, you know, you're getting flowers and you're like, is this positive?
00:04:16
is this negative, but I've said this to you before, the older you get, the less your birthday,
00:04:21
you do definitely stop doing that. Like it's my birthday week and we have to go to dinner on
00:04:25
Tuesday and this on Friday or whatever. It truly becomes this thing of like, I just don't want to,
00:04:31
I just don't want to talk about it. I know, but everyone else wants to. So you have to do it for
00:04:35
them. That's true. You don't have to do anything for them, I guess. I mean, ultimately no, but
00:04:41
you have to be able to receive. So you can't, I can't say I should say, like, just ignore it,
00:04:48
because people want to let you know that you matter to them and that they love you. And they're
00:04:53
glad that you lived yet another year, right? And it's kind of the only like acceptable time during
00:04:58
the year for them to say that you can't just randomly bust that out. You shouldn't, you know,
00:05:01
on a Tuesday. Oh, my God, I'm so glad you survived. What? Nothing, nothing. I have a really
00:05:08
funny gift for you, but visual and you have to touch it. And we're not in the studio right now.
00:05:12
So next week we're in the studio, you're going to get a belated hilarious birthday gift that I bought
00:05:16
months ago when I saw it on Instagram. And I was like, I've been holding it and waiting for your
00:05:22
birthday. Oh, nice. But now it has a lot to live up to. So better fucking be funny. You know what?
00:05:28
Also, that just reminded me that we took last week off for a much needed break. Yeah, but
00:05:33
we didn't do our briefcase presentation. So now we really have to do it. I'm glad because I can't fucking find one. Can you?
00:05:42
Did you really look? Oh my God. I've looked so much and I went through my own closet and I was like,
00:05:47
this might work. Is this, you know, I, I have looked and it's harder than I thought it would be.
00:05:52
It is very obscure. It is. It is. Is there a such thing as a business thrift store Filled with ties and suits and briefcases That sexist And dresses And working dresses with shoulder pads
00:06:05
The whole thing. And unisex jumpsuits. You know. Ooh. Let's not be so gendered at work all the time.
00:06:12
Come on. Guys, stop. Guys, stop it. Do you want to talk about there is some sad news in the true crime journalism world?
00:06:19
That's right. We must say an RIP to the incredible British crime reporter who we have sourced many times for this podcast.
00:06:27
Yeah. Duncan Campbell. He died at 80 after a very admirable career in true crime.
00:06:33
A huge name. He worked for The Guardian. He was a huge name in British journalism, married to the actress Julie Christie, which is, you know, a huge accomplishment all in itself.
00:06:45
If you haven't seen Shampoo, it's one of the greatest movies of all time. Yeah, we've used him many times. And, you know, he was a source in the story I told about the Great Train Robbery and in the Hatton Garden Heist story. You know, R.I.P.
00:06:59
Yeah. True crime journalists are the reason we're all here in true crime podcasting. It's a direct line.
00:07:04
Truly. Thank you for to all the true crime journalists that make these conversations possible.
00:07:09
Yep. All right. Should we do some highlights of our podcast network called Exactly Right Media?
00:07:14
Let's do it. So over on The Knife this week, Hannah and Peisha share Meg Richter's story. Meg was labeled a troubled teen and sent to Mountain Park Baptist Boarding Academy, a Christian reform school, but was actually more like a juvenile detention center. They talk all about the corporal punishment and the cult-like atmosphere. Those are some of my favorite stories of like, what were they getting away with back then? It's so crazy.
00:07:40
I mean, it's wild. And The Knife, please follow them. They're doing some incredible work. We're so proud to have them newly on the network.
00:07:46
And they're doing really well. That show is becoming a true hit and people are really responding to not just how good it is, like in terms of the topic that everyone's interested in.
00:07:57
Yeah. But how good Hannah and Pasha are as hosts and their conversations are incredible.
00:08:01
Yes. Thank you guys so much for supporting that. And then over on Varied Bones, Kate Winkler-Dawson and Paul Holes head to 1855 Ohio,
00:08:09
where a farmer died under suspicious circumstances. The investigation starts out standard with suspects, motives, a few twists,
00:08:16
but what unfolds is anything but ordinary. So make sure you check that out. And then over on Do You Need a Ride?
00:08:22
Chris and Karen, welcome the hilarious Martha Kelly. Oh, my God. We have a two-parter with Martha Kelly.
00:08:28
You know Martha from the television show Baskets. She played the character Martha.
00:08:32
She's also on Euphoria. She's been in a bunch of movies. Martha is a stand-up comic who is basically one of those comics, comics that everyone loves.
00:08:42
She's one of the funniest people. So we ended up doing a two-parter because we just were like, let's just keep going.
00:08:48
And our work is done here. But she also, if you haven't seen her on TikTok, she's hilarious.
00:08:54
And you should definitely check it out if you are on TikTok. And over on I Said No Gifts, Bridger remains gracious as ever when Mary Elizabeth Ellis,
00:09:02
our friend from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia and a man on the inside, shows up with an unapproved gift. They talk swamp tours, LA rabbits, and the dangers of
00:09:11
chicken Caesar salad. I love Mary Elizabeth. She's the best. Speaking of gifts, we've got some merch
00:09:16
news. The MFM Crow's pullover hoodie is here just in time for summer. I think Allison was being
00:09:25
sarcastic and true about that. Just in time for summer. Wear it to a freezing cold movie theater
00:09:29
or just store it away for winter if you want to, but they are some pretty great.
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I love this design. I love the way they made this sweatshirt. So go take a look at it and see if you don't love it too.
00:09:40
And also we've restocked the I Shall Never Submit tees inspired by the Pearl Heart story from episode 370.
00:09:46
You guys love that piece of merch. So check that out. It's available now in both ladies and unisex.
00:09:51
And you can see all of our merch at exactlyrightstore.com. Yay. When you're young, you don't really buy furniture.
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Yes, please. Don't we all kind of need that? Like the eye of an expert? Yeah. Where should I put this? And also, what should I move here and there?
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And what should I even get? But Article has it all, so you can get whatever there.
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Am I Scandi or am I mid-century? Help me be boho chic, please. If you're in the market for a beautiful new sofa, dining table, or bed, head over to article.com.
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at thirdlove.com. Goodbye. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
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Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already
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turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't
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makes sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust. Because Next doesn't wait
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Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering
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EVs with ultra-fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics
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that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far-off
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concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA.
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Goodbye. You're first, right? I am first. And I'm here with a classic true crime story.
00:12:59
Right. I was not familiar with it when I first heard about it. And then I think it was Maren probably found it and pitched it.
00:13:07
But then I was like, as I read her research, I was like, oh, that's why I thought I heard of this before.
00:13:13
And you will see what I'm talking about. So if you want to watch a TikTok about this case, there is a creator named Zevi Universe. So it's at X-E-V-I, capital U, Universe. And they talk all about this story. If you want to watch a TikTok version, and just for anybody that is sensitive to it, there are very brief mentions of violence against animals in this episode. There's very long mentions of violence against humans.
00:13:39
So this story starts in 2006. And while this is not a story entirely about Mike Tyson, it does begin at his boxing gym.
00:13:49
So this was when Mike was based in the Phoenix area of Arizona. Long past his championship years, he is in an enormous amount of debt.
00:13:58
Remember when Mike Tyson used to live with fully grown live tigers? Yes. When he lived in Las Vegas and was married to Robin Givens?
00:14:05
Absolutely. I mean, like, he really went for it. So he's in debt, but he's still one of the most famous boxers of all time.
00:14:12
So to help pay off his debt, he's gearing up for a world tour. His team's focused on promoting the matches and boosting ticket sales.
00:14:20
And that includes him doing interviews here and there with sports reporters. So today at his gym, Mike's set to meet with a local boxing journalist for a quick chat and for some photos.
00:14:31
Tyson will later describe this man as a small, polite white guy. Their time together goes smoothly.
00:14:36
Nothing happens. And before the man leaves, he asks to get a photo with him and Mike together. Of course, Mike Tyson agrees. That's that. The guy leaves. Mike Tyson never really thinks much more of it.
00:14:48
And then one morning, a few weeks later, Mike is again at his gym working out when a SWAT team surrounds the place. Mike has had run ins with the law kind of infamously. He also grew up in a horrible part of New York City over in Brooklyn. You know, he's no stranger to the police.
00:15:09
so he's totally freaked out has no idea what's going on and immediately starts apologizing
00:15:15
he's confused but he's like what did i do this time basically yeah so a sergeant steps forward
00:15:22
shows mike tyson a photo the one with the boxing journalist from a few weeks earlier
00:15:27
and the sergeant asks how he knows this man of course mike can't remember anything going wrong
00:15:34
during the interview or why this would be an issue. But he apologizes anyway and says,
00:15:40
I'm quote, I must have said something to him. I must have offended him. I'm sorry. I didn't mean
00:15:45
to do that. End quote. Wow. It's like basically he's like, they're coming for me. Right. I need
00:15:51
to start immediately apologizing. Yeah. Trying to fix this. So quickly, the officer makes it clear
00:15:57
to Mike Tyson. Mike Tyson's not the one in trouble here. He explains the photo was pulled from that
00:16:02
man's website, which is what led the SWAT team to Mike's gym. And then the sergeant says, quote,
00:16:08
Mr. Tyson, he liked you, but he didn't like the 28 people he shot or the eight he killed.
00:16:15
End quote. What? Alongside his accomplice, the man in the picture with Mike Tyson spent 14 months
00:16:22
terrorizing Phoenix, Arizona with horrific and random acts of violence. This is the story of
00:16:27
Phoenix's serial shooter case. Holy shit. Right? I don't remember this yet. It's crazy.
00:16:33
Which sounds horrible. It's horrible and crazy. But 2006, yeah. Basically a later version of the DC shooter,
00:16:40
which we all were very aware of, and it was like on the news all the time. It's like Phoenix's kind of version of that.
00:16:46
Yeah. And everyone there knows the story perfectly, probably, but somehow. I'm sure.
00:16:51
It's less in our minds. Okay, wow. Tell me everything. Okay. So the sources used today are journalist Michael Kiefer's
00:16:56
reporting for the Arizona Republic, Gary Grotto and Nick Martin's reporting for the East Valley
00:17:01
Tribune, and an interview Mike Tyson gave during an appearance on Jimmy Kimmel Live, where Mike
00:17:07
Tyson tells the story himself, which is crazy. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
00:17:12
So we're going to go back one year before the SWAT team invasion of Mike Tyson's boxing gym
00:17:18
to May 17th, 2005. A man named Tony Mendez, he's a construction worker in his late 30s,
00:17:25
is on his bicycle delivering candles to a family who just lost their power at their house.
00:17:32
Tony's been struggling with his sobriety, but he's starting to turn things around,
00:17:36
trying really hard to turn things around. A big source of inspiration to do this work are his four children,
00:17:42
who he wants to strengthen his relationships with. Tragically, on his way to help the family, Tony is shot to death by an unknown gunman
00:17:49
with what investigators ultimately determine is a caliber rifle fired from a moving vehicle A week later on May 24 2005 another man named Reginald Remillard is randomly and fatally shot with a 22 caliber weapon while in a public space in Phoenix Reginald was a Vietnam
00:18:08
War veteran in his mid 50s who had struggled for years with schizophrenia. He was sleeping at a bus
00:18:14
stop when he was shot and he died of his injuries just a few days later. And then almost exactly one
00:18:20
month later on June 29th, a 20-year-old man named David Estrada is randomly shot to death.
00:18:26
20. Yeah, baby. David is remembered as a star high school athlete and a beloved member of his family.
00:18:34
He's camping under an overpass in Tulleson, Arizona, about 12 miles from Phoenix on the night
00:18:40
he's murdered. His body is found with gunshot injuries to his chest, consistent with a .22
00:18:45
caliber weapon. So then a few months pass from this murder. And then on November 11th, 2005,
00:18:52
a man in his mid 40s named Nathaniel Schaffner is killed basically according to this exact same
00:18:58
MO. We don't know much about Nathaniel personally, aside from the fact that he was unhoused at the
00:19:04
time that he was murdered. He had had a few run ins with the police over the years. Nathaniel's
00:19:09
body is found in an alleyway in downtown Phoenix. But unlike the three previous victims,
00:19:15
investigators determined that Nathaniel was killed with a small gauge shotgun. Well, now you can immediately see why we didn't hear as much about this as we did the DC sniper.
00:19:23
It's because it was unhoused, less fortunate people. That's right. And so it gets less coverage.
00:19:29
Right. It's people on the street who it's much easier to rationalize or write off as if they want to
00:19:37
live on the street or be on the street. Or if they deserve bad things because they can't help but live on the, you know.
00:19:42
Yes. Yeah. All the moralizing that goes along with it. Yeah, good point. So after Nathaniel's murder, weeks pass, the holidays come and go.
00:19:51
And then at the very end of December on the 29th, around 7.30 p.m., shots are fired at a car parked outside of the ABC bartending school in Tempe, about 10 miles away from Phoenix.
00:20:03
No one's injured in this shooting. It seems like just this one car has been targeted, which is very weird.
00:20:10
But of course, everyone at the bartending school is completely rattled. And the shooter, believed to be firing from a car, immediately disappears before anyone can get a good look. So later that same night, several people and a few animals are shot at random throughout the Phoenix metro area. Two victims are unhoused and believed to be undocumented immigrants. Again, another reason we didn't hear about it.
00:20:34
So we don't know very much about their lives, but we do know their names. They are 44-year-old Jose Ortiz and 28-year-old Marco Carrillo.
00:20:44
They're both killed in separate locations, not far from each other. And these shootings take place within minutes of each other.
00:20:51
And this leads investigators to believe the gunman was firing from a moving car.
00:20:55
Once again, the gun used in both attacks appears to be a .22 caliber rifle. So just one block away from where Marco Carrillo is killed, another man is shot as he's getting off a bus.
00:21:07
His name is Timmy Tordai, and he's in his 30s. Timmy survives this shooting, and he manages to get help.
00:21:15
But by the time police are looped in, the shooter's already gone, and the hunt continues.
00:21:21
So around 1 a.m. the same night, a 24-year-old Phoenix woman named Clarissa Raleigh is walking down the street alone.
00:21:29
She sees a four-door silver car pass her, then pull an abrupt U-turn and come back in her direction.
00:21:36
As the car gets closer, Clarissa watches as someone puts the barrel of a shotgun out the window and fires at her.
00:21:44
Holy shit. She instinctively shields her face with her hands and her hands take the brunt of the blast.
00:21:50
Oh my God. And thank God, a passerby sees Clarissa almost immediately after the attack and rushes her to the hospital.
00:21:58
So she survives. So it doesn't take police long to connect these December 29th shootings.
00:22:05
So all of that happened in one night. Jesus. And so they definitely connected them immediately.
00:22:10
Yeah, because they're so close to each other. The weapon was the same every time.
00:22:15
And every time it appeared to be shooting from a moving car. Right. Wow. But Clarissa surviving and being able to give a description of the gunman's vehicle
00:22:23
now gives investigators a real lead. So when they check surveillance footage near where Jose, Marco and Timmy had all been murdered, they see the same silver Toyota Camry in that footage that matches her description.
00:22:37
Wow. It's a huge lead in this horrifying case. But then the shootings stop. There are no reports of any shootings that fit this MO in Phoenix for the next five months.
00:22:48
But then on May 2nd, 2006, so the following year, around 10 p.m., a 17-year-old named Kibili Tambudo is walking home after picking up a few groceries for his mom at a Phoenix convenience store when he's shot with a small-gauge shotgun.
00:23:04
Kibili's father was shot and killed back in their native war-torn Sierra Leone. But miraculously, Kibili survives this attack, and he manages to get help from staffers at a nearby hotel.
00:23:16
Wow. So scary. Yeah. That's just like, you can't even fucking walk down the street.
00:23:22
Like, come on. Yeah. So frustrating. And then 15 minutes after Kavili's attack, a 20-year-old woman named Claudia Gutierrez Cruz is walking home in nearby Scottsdale, Arizona.
00:23:33
Claudia just moved to the area a few months before from her native Mexico, and she's just clocked out of work from a nearby restaurant.
00:23:41
So, you know, it's that kind of thing. She just did a long shift, and she's walking home.
00:23:45
And she is shot with a shotgun from a moving car. A good Samaritan stops and rushes her to the hospital.
00:23:52
But she does die not long after she gets there. Between May 30th and July 22nd, 2006, 15 more people.
00:24:00
are attacked at random in the greater Phoenix area. Holy shit. Most of them are shot with small gauge shotgun
00:24:06
from a moving car. Fortunately, all of them survived their injuries. How terrifying to like know that if you walk home,
00:24:15
you might get shot and maybe you don't have any other option to walk home, you know, because your shift is late
00:24:20
and you don't have a car. Right. That's terrifying. Or like, I think it was Timmy,
00:24:25
he was getting off the bus. Yeah. Somebody was just basically got a ride home and was probably like a block away.
00:24:31
Totally. It's horrifying. Yeah. You want to be like, I wouldn't leave the house,
00:24:35
but a lot of people don't have that option. Right. Right, exactly. Awful. Yeah. And especially unhoused people who are like,
00:24:41
I'm just trying to survive out here. Yeah. So the victims of these additional attacks
00:24:47
include cyclists riding their bikes, a man listening to music in his parked car,
00:24:53
people standing outside their houses and apartments, a woman who decided to walk home
00:24:57
after getting into an argument with her husband. That one is, thank God she lived because, oh my God, the tragedy.
00:25:04
The guilt. The guilt and horror. A man who's walking down the street to buy cigarettes and then just random pedestrians just walking down the sidewalk.
00:25:13
Fuck. So now it's July 30th. It's around 1115 at night. And a 22-year-old woman named Robin Blaznak has just left her parents' house in Mesa, Arizona.
00:25:23
That's also in the Phoenix metro area. And she's walking over to her boyfriend's house.
00:25:28
This kills me because this is the kind of thing where it's just like, here's just a description of a regular person.
00:25:33
Like you're leaving your place. You're going to go over to your boyfriend's place.
00:25:36
Everyday life. Right. She's wearing pajamas and fuzzy slippers and talking to her friend on the phone as she walks down the street.
00:25:42
Oh my, like that's how normal and casual this is. Oh my God. Yeah. So after a neighbor hears a gunshot and goes and looks outside, they find Robin lying on the side of the road and she does end up dying from her injuries.
00:25:56
Oh, honey. Investigators believe that those injuries were caused by a small gauge shotgun.
00:26:02
Robin's bereaved parents are now forced to endure the grief of her death, having lost another daughter 10 years earlier in a car accident.
00:26:11
It's horribly tragic for the Blazniks and for all the victims' families and their friends, but it just keeps happening.
00:26:18
By this point, it's been more than a year of random shootings. And the residents of Phoenix, of course, as we're saying, are completely on edge.
00:26:25
People don't want to leave their houses. for fear of being targeted. And by now, the gunman's being referred to as Phoenix's serial
00:26:32
shooter. So a police task force has already been set up. They're putting all their energy into
00:26:37
identifying the suspect. And investigators and forensics experts have collected and analyzed
00:26:42
ballistics evidence, surveillance footage, eyewitness testimony, and any other evidence
00:26:48
they can find from the crime scenes. So far, they've connected 35 shootings that include
00:26:54
multiple fatalities to this so-called serial shooter. Wow. Unfortunately, it's an extremely busy time for investigators in Phoenix because there's
00:27:03
also an active serial rapist and murderer operating in the area. It's the baseline killer.
00:27:10
Holy shit. So not only are the citizens of Phoenix totally overwhelmed by all of this violence and murder
00:27:17
all around them, but of course law enforcement would be too because they're not a gigantic
00:27:23
City having to have multiple task force for multiple serial killers at one time.
00:27:29
For violent criminals, that does seem a little overwhelming. It's a bit much. Yeah.
00:27:34
So in July of 2006, a man named Ron Horton leaves a message on a secret witness tip line.
00:27:41
And he says that his friend, a guy named Sam Dieterman, has been bragging about shooting
00:27:47
at random people and animals in public. Ron says that Sam referred to it as, quote,
00:27:53
RVing, which he said stood for recreational violence. Sam is 31 years old. And you might
00:28:01
remember the secret witness tip line from my story about Shirley Landreth on the tipster killer.
00:28:07
Yeah. It's the same one that they have set up there. Yeah. So again, it's a tip line that really
00:28:12
works. But he's not secret. So maybe. No, he's not because he then went to court. Okay. Yeah.
00:28:18
so he's now on record don't keep secrets yeah so this tip comes in around the same time robin
00:28:24
blasneck is murdered so officers reach out to ron horton to get more information from him so ron
00:28:30
agrees to set up a meeting with sam diedeman at a local bar so that the police can actually lay
00:28:36
some eyes on him and and take a look at him and it's good that they did because sam gets a ride
00:28:42
to that bar in a silver Toyota Camry. Police identified the driver as Sam's 33-year-old friend and former roommate, Dale Hausner.
00:28:51
Damn, you know they were losing their minds when that happened. Oh, God. That kind of stuff were like, especially for stakeouts and stuff, where you're sitting
00:28:58
there for like 14 hours and then finally it starts happening. Yeah, the exact thing you need and want.
00:29:03
Oh, my God, what a relief. Wake up, wake up. Don't spill your 7-Eleven coffee. Neither Dale nor Sam has ever been on the investigators radars. Sam's a divorced father. He's an electrician by trade. He has addiction issues. He spent stretches living on friends and family's couches. Dale, meanwhile, is described as a doting father of a young daughter. And Dale had his own horrible tragedy in his life. Years earlier, he lost his wife and his two sons in a terrible car accident where he was the only survivor.
00:29:37
What? No. Why the what? Why do? Oh my God. That's just like confounding because why put other families through the thing that you know exactly how it feels? That's just so depraved.
00:29:50
Or is that part of it? Right. Feel what I feel Why do I have to be alone in this pain Everybody else needs to feel what I feel Sure Yeah Dale works as a janitor at the Phoenix airport He dabbles in sports journalism and promotions and he a boxing super fan
00:30:05
He actually even has a local public access show about boxing. And it is Dale who lands the interview with Mike Tyson just weeks before he drops Sam off at that bar in his silver Camry.
00:30:16
Wow, so that already happened. Right. Holy shit. So on the surface, these men don't send up any glaring red flags to the investigators.
00:30:24
But behind closed doors, Sam and Dale like to get, this is what they do for fun.
00:30:29
They get incredibly drunk and then they get high on meth. And then they gamble, shoplift, vandalize anything from cars to businesses and commit acts of arson.
00:30:40
Turns out they're responsible for two unsolved arson cases at different Arizona Walmarts on the same day where six people were sent to the hospital for smoke inhalation.
00:30:48
and Walmart racked up $5 million in damages, which is how much in today's money?
00:30:55
It's only 2006. 8 million, 8. That's exactly right. Holy shit. You've done it. It's finally happened.
00:31:03
That is crazy. That's never happened before. It's never happened. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding.
00:31:07
Is there a thing? There is. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Look, there it is. That was it.
00:31:13
So during these fires, the water damage is mostly from the emergency sprinklers.
00:31:18
And also it's Walmart. $8 million is literally like when you drop $5 on the street and you kind
00:31:24
of bum out for two seconds. Totally. So these two men are basically just a horrible rampaging drug
00:31:30
fueled duo who do not give a shit about anybody else. I want to say like, fucking meth, but I
00:31:38
didn't do that shit on meth. I like made painted watercolors for hours with my friends. Like,
00:31:43
it's not meth. Yes, exactly. There's different ways to go about things. But yes, what you do
00:31:48
on drugs is your responsibility. Right. And you cannot just be like, oh, point to the thing that
00:31:55
a bunch of other people are on, but are not doing what that is. Right. Don't be crazy. No. Also,
00:32:00
again, if there's any theme of this podcast, it's please don't do math. We beg you. Truly.
00:32:07
So back at the stakeout bar, the police decide they're going to discreetly follow Dale out of
00:32:12
the parking lot and they tail his Camry to a local mall. And when Dale heads inside, they slap a GPS
00:32:19
device on his car. Yes. Right. So when Dale eventually heads back to the bar to pick Sam up,
00:32:25
the police are now able to track their movements. Amazing. Great work. Great work for a police force
00:32:31
that basically is like, uh, there's also normal crime. There's the baseline killer. There's these
00:32:37
assholes. There's just the standard shit. Yeah. There's other people on meth all over the place.
00:32:43
There's meth-ers meth-ing around all over town. It's terrible. We're not laughing at meth.
00:32:49
Five-finger discounting? No, we are not. We're laughing at other things. I'm just thinking about
00:32:54
the sister who's listening to this for the first time and just like horrified that we're cracking
00:32:58
up about Matthews. You're like, they thought drugs were funny. It's like they kind of are in other
00:33:02
situations. They can be very funny. Okay, so that night, the Camry leaves the apartment complex,
00:33:08
and they start to just drive aimlessly around town throughout random Phoenix neighborhoods.
00:33:14
They slow down as they approach pedestrians or cyclists, and sometimes they loop back around
00:33:20
to pass the same person again. But they didn't stop them? Hold on. Because they could have shot
00:33:25
them hold on okay as the camera recircles the block the undercover officers then slow their
00:33:32
car down okay and then yell out the window to these oblivious pedestrians take cover get the
00:33:38
fuck out of here basically like go go go holy shit okay that's good so they did without blowing
00:33:44
their own cover they basically were telling those people okay there's somebody that's gonna shoot
00:33:48
you thank you for telling but i bet you it was literally like the window world down like get out
00:33:52
here, that's the shooter. And people ran because this had been going on for so long. And those were
00:33:56
the people that were exposed. Right. Or like if you see someone slow down near you in a car and
00:34:01
you're a pedestrian, you probably just run anyways, because yeah, you know what's going on.
00:34:05
Because of what's been going on. Sure. Luckily, no one is attacked during this drive this night.
00:34:10
Police follow the men back to Dale's apartment and they hear a bit of the two men's conversation
00:34:15
alluding to their disappointment, quote, because of the rain. It's unclear what they're talking
00:34:20
about, but the police assume that they're mad that they couldn't find a good target because of
00:34:25
the weather. So shortly after this, investigators secure a warrant to bug Sam's phone and Dale's
00:34:31
apartment. And not long after that, on August 3rd, 2006, investigators are able to record the two men
00:34:38
talking and joking about some of the shootings. And minutes after that, a SWAT team bursts into
00:34:44
their homes and arrests both men. Oh man, that had to feel so good. I mean, this is a movie,
00:34:50
Like this has to be made into a movie. It's like, yeah, perfect. Yeah. Okay. And it can't be made into one of those movies where suddenly they're the antiheroes.
00:34:58
No, no. Oh, no. Just putting that out there. So Sam and Dale are interrogated by police separately.
00:35:04
Dale shuts down and says nothing, but Sam spills. You're only as strong as your weakest link.
00:35:10
So according to Michael Kiefer's reporting, quote, he and Dale, he told police were engaged
00:35:15
in what they called random recreational violence. There were muggings, stabbings, palm trees ignited, stores set on fire, tires slashed.
00:35:25
And the shootings, essentially, they were playing video games in real time while smoking meth.
00:35:30
Jesus Christ. End quote. So Sam gives context to several of the shootings. For example, he claims they murdered Nathaniel Schaffner, for example, because he'd thrown a can at them as they were about to shoot a stray dog.
00:35:43
So Nathaniel saves the stray's life and is killed in turn. Oy vey. I can't handle that one yet.
00:35:53
I'm not processing that right now. Sam also implicates Dale brother Jeff in at least one unsolved random stabbing that they committed He also admits that after one drive shooting they circled back to look at the victim body and got caught at the scene when police showed up
00:36:09
So they end up giving false witness statements to the officers and are never suspected of being involved.
00:36:16
Oh, someone got reprimanded for that for sure, right? Like that's kind of... Oh God.
00:36:21
I mean, but also as those cops, like you wouldn't be able to live that down. It would be horrible.
00:36:27
Yeah. Luckily, the victim in that shooting is a man named James Hodges, who was also a Vietnam veteran.
00:36:33
And he, although critically injured, does survive. Sam also tells police Dale had committed several shootings before the two had become friends, which police do believe is true.
00:36:45
And Dale is soon considered to be the ringleader in these serial shootings. More damning evidence is found at his apartment.
00:36:53
There are several firearms, including a small gauge shotgun and records showing that Dale used to own multiple .22 caliber rifles.
00:37:00
They presume he'd either recently destroyed them or gotten rid of them somehow. They also find .22 caliber shell casings in his Camry, as well as scrapbooks containing cutout newspaper articles about the serial shooter.
00:37:14
Scrapbooking. Like, that, ugh. Chills. I mean it's just like a movie where it's like it really is the profiling that they talk about where
00:37:24
it's like they're in it for the glory and the fame they're in it for that part it seems like
00:37:30
hacky but it is real yeah and like I could make a joke about how like tedious scrapbooking is and
00:37:36
like I can't even do it with my own happy life and these fucking monsters are doing it like I
00:37:41
wanted to make a joke about Joanne Fabrics and like where those guys standing around in the aisles
00:37:46
like no one noticed these two guys on meth scrapbooking. Right, getting like measured of both ribbon cuttings.
00:37:53
I don't know what you do there, but we're not going to do that. We're not. We don't really do that anymore.
00:37:57
As investigators pour through Dale's things, including his computer and his website,
00:38:01
they also find that photo of him with Mike Tyson, which eventually leads the police to Mike Tyson's gym.
00:38:08
Did those guys just want to meet Mike Tyson? Because he has nothing to fucking do with it, clearly.
00:38:12
He's in one photo. I mean, why did they have to go in with the SWAT team? Right.
00:38:15
I'm not. Yeah, I don't love that. They just wanted to meet Mike Tyson. For sure. And kind of maybe scare Mike Tyson?
00:38:21
I don't know. Or get their own photos with him? I don't know. It's questionable.
00:38:25
So the state of Arizona ends up filing 88 charges against Dale Hausner, which span murder and arson.
00:38:33
Sam Dieterman, meanwhile, continues cooperating with the authorities. He pleads guilty to murder and conspiracy to commit murder.
00:38:40
and in doing so ends up avoiding trial himself and the potential death penalty. So Sam agrees to testify against Dale at his trial, which begins in late 2008.
00:38:51
And survivors Timmy Tordai and Clarissa Rowley both give their testimony in this trial,
00:38:58
as does a man named John Kane, who crossed paths with Dale at Tempe's ABC bartending school,
00:39:04
where Dale had taken courses a while back and where that parked car was shot at back in late December of 2005.
00:39:12
So there was a weird connection there. Yeah. And John Kane made that connection for everybody.
00:39:17
He testifies that he'd been accused of sexual harassment by a woman affiliated with the school
00:39:23
and Dale had offered to help him out with that situation. Jesus. John asked Dale what he meant by that
00:39:30
and Dale told him, don't worry about it. You'll know when it happens. So then a few nights later, on December 29th, this woman's car is shot at in the parking lot.
00:39:40
John testifies he confronted Dale the next day and asked him, what the fuck are you doing?
00:39:45
And Dale simply replied, taking care of business. Oh, my God. So it was her car.
00:39:50
Holy shit. Problem is, John didn't report Dale to the police. Yeah. So testimony like this, as well as the overwhelming amount of evidence presented to the jury, undeniably points to Dale's guilt.
00:40:00
so in march of 2009 dale hausner is convicted on 80 yeah 80 of the counts against him including
00:40:08
six counts of first degree murder wow he's handed six death sentences and in june of 2013 while on
00:40:15
death row he takes his own life he was 40 years old wow how the fuck have i not ever ever heard
00:40:22
of this i know none of it sam dieteman meanwhile is sentenced to life in prison with no chance of
00:40:27
parole and he remains there to this day. So with the convictions of Dale Hausner and Sam Dieterman
00:40:32
and the capture of the baseline killer Mark Godot the same year, that all happened in one year,
00:40:38
a brutal chapter in Phoenix history finally ends. For the victims and their families,
00:40:45
there finally is at least a little resolution, but the trauma lingers. And this includes
00:40:50
Kabilitambudu, who was just 17 years old when he was shot walking home from the convenience store.
00:40:55
he has scars from the attack on his arm and on his back and several of his fingers are permanently
00:41:01
paralyzed and kabili remembers the moment he found out his attackers had been caught
00:41:06
they had like a breaking news cut into normal tv and basically they announced that the serial
00:41:13
shooters have been arrested oh what a relief right and kabili says his first reaction was
00:41:19
man get those bastards and then later he tells reporters quote after i was shot i was scared
00:41:25
of the world. I'd walk down the street thinking, am I going to get shot right now? Now I can take
00:41:31
a breath of fresh air. And that's the story of Phoenix's serial shooters who terrorized the city
00:41:37
over 14 brutal months in 2005 and 2006. David Fincher, get on that. For real. Can you imagine?
00:41:46
At the same time, he's also like, it's that slash the serial killer that's going on at the same time
00:41:51
And there's overlap. And like what portal to hell opened up in the desert outside Phoenix and crawled into the city in the fucking spring of 2005 Wow Yeah Holy shit There was lead in the air
00:42:05
God. Oh my God. Great job. That was, I don't know, like the whole unhoused, it's hard for people to empathize with that. And I understand. So the thing I always think about
00:42:17
that I think is important, but my dad lived in his car for periods of my life when he had to.
00:42:23
and you just have to remember, like think of Marty, if you need to understand like where someone is in their life,
00:42:31
that they're doing that, that it's not, they're not a bum. They're a human being trying to live their life the only way they can.
00:42:39
And, you know, you just have to remember that. Right. And like humanize that. Humanize it.
00:42:44
And also remember that those people would not be there if there were services in this country
00:42:51
that Ronald Reagan took away in the 80s, such needed services. And every time I see people walking down the street,
00:42:59
talking to themselves and looking ragged and skinny, I just think to myself, it was my mom's whole career
00:43:06
to make sure that that guy got his meds three times a day. Because it was so important.
00:43:11
That's how needed it was. It's so needed. And that kind of maintenance where it's like,
00:43:15
it's a very difficult thing when you have mental illness to take care of yourself correctly.
00:43:20
You need support. You need it all the time. And that support costs money. That's social well-being.
00:43:26
That's a great point. It's what taxes are for. A couple billionaires could kick down, instead of buying their 30th yacht, kick down some fucking tax money.
00:43:37
These problems, we wouldn't have to be moralizing. You wouldn't have to listen to your Republican dad rant about unhoused people.
00:43:44
Because we should be better people and we should be taking care of our own. We should see them as our own.
00:43:50
and take care of them. Literally. Yeah. You know, and my dad is, you know, as mentally healthy as I
00:43:55
am, which is not saying a lot, but he also was a college graduate and he still had to resort to
00:44:00
living in his car at times because life can be not what you expect and really hard. Who doesn't
00:44:07
know that these days? I mean, Jesus, I think about all the time, like my old apartment,
00:44:11
if things were the way they were, I would not have been able to afford it. I would have been
00:44:15
couch surfing, which is like... Oh, absolutely. I would be living with my dad eight years ago. I
00:44:19
we have talked about that a lot, but it's like, it's easy to go underwater in this country.
00:44:24
God forbid you fall down and break your leg. Oh my God. You're one bill away from fucking
00:44:31
destitution for sure. So let's just all remember that. While the world watches the stars at the FIFA World Cup this summer,
00:44:40
Hyundai has its eyes on the next generation of talent. The future soccer stars who are already
00:44:45
turning heads at age 14. Making plays that end up on everyone's feed, scoring from angles that don't
00:44:50
make sense, rewriting record books that barely had time to gather dust. Because Next doesn't wait
00:44:55
for an invitation and Hyundai doesn't either. Hyundai has always moved the future within reach.
00:44:59
Hyundai did it by making advanced safety standard on every vehicle. Hyundai did it by engineering
00:45:04
EVs with ultra fast charging capability. And Hyundai continues doing it every day. From robotics
00:45:10
that change how people live to young athletes changing the game, the future isn't some far
00:45:14
off concept. It's already here. Next starts now. Hyundai, an official partner of FIFA. Goodbye.
00:45:21
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Quince.com slash MFM. Goodbye. Okay, are we back? Because I have a very important corrections corner.
00:47:35
Oh, okay. Before this episode's even over, I went out to pee and Vince corrected me.
00:47:40
I didn't know he was listening, but okay. He's a fan. I know he is. He's the best.
00:47:44
Okay, here's, I'm going to phrase it like this. Ad rocks down with the Ioni. We said Mike D.
00:47:51
Mike Diamond, Mike D, because that's just my favorite name of all of rap. I sounded not right.
00:47:56
And I think I hesitated, but it's like in one of the songs. I know. Well, I did.
00:48:01
I threw it out there. You did. I think I said Adam Yowch, which is very nerdy of me.
00:48:07
Yes. And I didn't. But it's Adam Horowitz. Yowch is the other guy. Oh, is it two Adams, Vince?
00:48:13
What's Yowch's first name? Mike. Mike D. What? Michael Yowch, Adam Horowitz. Forget it.
00:48:26
Wait, it's what? Vince, what is it? Say their names again. adam yeah it's mca adam ad rock is ad rock is adam horowitz say the last one again
00:48:40
and michael diamond is mike d oh god you can delete your instagram comment yeah telling us how dumb we are about beastie boys we love beastie boy vince is standing by
00:48:54
I've never said I love the Beastie Boys. Oh, you know, I do. Well, I appreciate them and I got it.
00:49:00
Yeah. Intergalactic is one of my favorite experiences to have. Okay. But that first album.
00:49:06
Yeah. That means you don't like them. If that's your favorite out of the Beastie Boy catalog, that means you.
00:49:10
But remember, the Beastie Boys broke when I was like a sophomore in high school.
00:49:14
So it never wasn't fucking playing. And it was like you're on the baseball bus, the softball team and the baseball team had
00:49:22
to take the bus together. And then you're just like, we have to listen to this for four hours,
00:49:26
like really torturous and not for me. I was more of like, can we listen to Suzanne Vega?
00:49:33
Right. Right. Okay. That's fair. Yeah. All right. Well, I'm devastated. We're not in studio right
00:49:38
now because I have a vintage sweater I was going to wear that goes with my story perfectly. It's
00:49:43
It's got a ship on. It's too hot. It's got a ship. It's got seagulls and an ocean view.
00:49:52
And here's my story. So today we're on a desolate Scottish island. Karen, we're doing a fucking 360, by the way.
00:50:00
180? Yeah. The island is deserted aside from a lonely lighthouse and three lighthouse keepers
00:50:06
until they vanished without a trace. You know this one? You're nodding. Oh, yeah.
00:50:11
You got to know this one. I think I've seen the movie. I feel like your grandma must have told you this story too.
00:50:16
There's no wreckage. There's no struggle. There's no signs of anything where or how these three experienced lighthouse keepers
00:50:25
could have disappeared from a rocky outpost in the North Atlantic. This is a favorite topic for paranormal investigators and conspiracy theorists.
00:50:34
This is the Flannan Isles Lighthouse Mystery. A tale shrouded in fog, fear, and unanswered questions.
00:50:42
Thank you, Allie, for that line. It's perfect. All right. Well, the main source for this story is a 1999 article from a journal called 14A Studies
00:50:51
called The Vanishing Lighthouseman of Aileen Moore by Mike Dash, the fourth Beastie Boy.
00:50:57
And the rest can be found in our show notes. And this journal, Allie tells me, is about anomalous events.
00:51:04
She says it's approached in a practical way with a lot of research. So that sounds really interesting.
00:51:09
And also this fourth Beastie Boy, Mike Dash, was also one of Maren's big sources on the Spring-Heel Jack story.
00:51:17
So right up your alley. So it's December of 1900, and we're off the northern coast of Scotland, where I'm going to be this summer, on a chain of tiny islands called the Flannan Isles.
00:51:28
There's a much bigger chain of islands called the Hebrides off the Scottish coast.
00:51:32
and they're known for their obvious stunning beauty. They're popular with outdoorsy travelers,
00:51:39
not it, but the Flannan Isles are the farthest west. They're still considered part of the outer
00:51:44
Hebrides, but practically speaking, they're more like big rocks in the middle of the ocean. So
00:51:49
island is in quotes, you know what I mean? Like you wouldn't go summer there. Yeah. You would,
00:51:54
unless you want to go rappelling. Sure. So the Aelian Moor is the biggest island off the Flannan
00:52:00
Isles and it's only of a quarter of a mile across. That's what Allie put. And then I was like, what
00:52:05
does that mean to me and Karen? A quarter mile across. You know what I mean? Because I can't
00:52:09
guess. So I looked it up. It's 1,320 feet or three football fields. Oh, okay. Or a five to 10 minute
00:52:17
walk. All right. So the sides of the islands are sheer cliffs dropping off into the ocean,
00:52:23
the tallest of which are on the westermost point, and these are 150 feet tall. So very, like, picture the Princess Bride cliffs.
00:52:34
The cliffs of insanity? The cliffs of insanity. The island has kind of always given people bad vibes for many generations.
00:52:42
It's one of those, like, you know, storytelling islands. People have always described a strong sense of foreboding about the whole place.
00:52:49
it's home to a tiny stone medieval church with crumbling mossy roofs spend a night there i dare
00:52:58
you and there's some lore about the church that the pilgrims would first crawl into the church
00:53:03
out of superstition before entering it so it's got like creepy vibes i mean a lot of churches
00:53:08
have creepy vibes anyway also it's like it's so funny because i was thinking about that's basically
00:53:13
driving around ireland that's all you see are like the walls of churches from the 1300s of
00:53:19
no longer have roofs. And it is, it's creepy. But then it's like, but if you're in the right
00:53:23
mindset, maybe like have a couple Guinness aboard, you're like, ah, the history. But then if you're
00:53:28
like on an island, and there's like, crazy rocks and crowds, you're like, this is horrifying.
00:53:33
Right. Like no one wanted to be there. You know what I mean? Like they had to make a pilgrimage
00:53:38
there probably. Yeah, right. It's not like they could go to the gift shop afterwards or anything
00:53:41
fun. Yeah, exactly. So the island chain, which is sometimes called the seven hunters,
00:53:46
It been steeped in legends about a phantom and of course about fairies who live there There also stories about a strange and mysterious group of people who once inhabited the island with like then they say they had different body types and customs than those on the mainland So just kind of lore you know Body types I know It like
00:54:06
were they like hippie? I don't know. Yeah. They were really broad shoulders and everybody talked
00:54:12
about it. Exactly. Their knees were weird, just weird. They bent backwards. Right. But this is
00:54:18
going back hundreds of years, of course. But at the turn of the century, so the 1900 turn of the
00:54:24
century. There's nobody living there. And aside from the tiny crumbling church, there's nothing
00:54:29
on the island. That is until 1899, when a brand new lighthouse is built. And in comes three
00:54:37
lighthouse keepers. Seems like a lot, right? Like, I feel like you become a lighthouse keeper to be
00:54:42
alone. I mean, I feel like that's how we've always been introduced to lighthouses is like, there's
00:54:48
just one guy up there and that's kind of the whole story but i bet it's a tough job it seems really
00:54:54
tough but i guess it makes sense that if like it's not like you are the lighthouse keeper and then you
00:54:58
go to your house you're like staying in the lighthouse there has to be two people at all times
00:55:03
at least that makes sense i answered my own question you just had to sound it out a little
00:55:08
bit you just had to just sit with it for a second show my work okay so here we are on the night of
00:55:15
December 15th, 1900. Two ships are sailing along the coast. One is called the Fairwind. The other
00:55:22
is called the Arctur. And this is an area known for big storms and massive waves, the Scottish
00:55:28
weather, especially since the islands are essentially the peaks of an underwater mountain
00:55:34
in the middle of the Atlantic. So it's not smooth sailing. And the captain of the Arctur says the
00:55:39
weather has been a bit stormy lately, but the weather tonight is not particularly noteworthy.
00:55:43
As they approach the Eileen Moore Island, they are expecting to see the bright beam from the lighthouse.
00:55:50
It has 140,000 candle power, which is a unit for measuring brightness. Did you know that?
00:55:57
And it should be visible from 24 nautical miles away, which is about 27 land miles away, which is fucking far.
00:56:05
It should be shining bright at them. Instead, they're greeted only with more darkness.
00:56:11
Oof. The sailors know something is wrong. Even more curiously, and this is more according to legend,
00:56:17
some sailors apparently report seeing a rowboat near the island, although how they see it is
00:56:22
unclear. And they say that they see men in it, which we can take that part for a grain of salt.
00:56:29
It seems that the fair wind does not actually report anything. So all we know for sure is a
00:56:32
report made from the Arctur's captain. So in the stormy darkness, the Arctur actually hits a rock,
00:56:38
winds up taking on water, which is the whole fucking point of a lighthouse being there
00:56:42
is that wouldn't happen. So the captain has to beach the ship and it's a whole thing to get it fixed.
00:56:47
It takes forever. And so it isn't until 10 days after that, that the captain's finally able to make the
00:56:52
official report about what he saw, that the lighthouse on Eileen Moore was not lit.
00:56:58
And this puts us at Christmas Day. So then it isn't until Boxing Day, which is, we all know, the day after Christmas over
00:57:06
there. Is it? Yeah. Okay. I don't know. Always good to learn about the Brits. I don't know when to take another day off. So it isn't until Boxing Day in the year 1900,
00:57:16
when the Northern Lighthouse Board, it's like the board of the lighthouse, finally send a boat to the island to see what's going on. This boat is called the Hesperus,
00:57:25
and on it is a lighthouse keeper familiar with the island named Joseph Moore. So there are a total of four lighthouse keepers assigned to this lighthouse. So
00:57:34
those three that are there and another one, they each take two week shifts away from the island.
00:57:40
So the other three who are supposed to be on the island are named James Duckett, who's 43,
00:57:46
Thomas Marshall, who's 28, and Donald MacArthur, who's 40. Real quick. Yeah. Would you ever take a job on a lighthouse island if it was just you, A, B, if it was you and two
00:57:59
other people? If I had to choose one of those two options? You can either choose or you can talk about A and then talk about B.
00:58:05
Okay. I guess it depends on the other two people. What if they're fucking annoying?
00:58:11
True. Right? Two old sailors. How about that? That's who it is. Would you do that?
00:58:16
Hell yeah. And or would you do it by yourself? As a female, 40-year-old female? No.
00:58:21
As another old-timey Scottish lighthouse fisherman? Yeah. Yes. They won't hurt you.
00:58:28
Okay, okay. They're decent human beings. true gentlemen, fun. They play cards. They love Uno and drinking. Oh my God. Stop it. Giant Jenga.
00:58:37
I'm there. Right. Okay. I'm just saying to me, it does sound like a little vacation where it's like,
00:58:42
you're just saying I get to post up for two weeks and I kind of don't have to do anything at all.
00:58:46
Yeah. Yes. And there's whiskey. Yeah. Like good whiskey. And you're helping ships.
00:58:51
Oh, that's okay. Yes. That's my answer. I'm assuming yours is too. So Joseph, the guy who's coming over, knows these three men very well, obviously, since he spent a lot of time, weeks long shifts with them on the island doing exactly what we just said, playing Giant Jenga and Uno.
00:59:08
And James is in charge and he's a veteran lighthouse keeper. He has a wife and four children, but Thomas is unmarried.
00:59:15
One of the guys, Donald, is also married, but it's unclear if he has kids. And he's said to really dislike his job posting there at the lighthouse.
00:59:22
house. He's considered an occasional keeper, only filling in when the schedule demands. So it seems
00:59:28
like it's the other two guys who'd like actually want to be there. I wonder if it was like really
00:59:32
good pay because it's a pain. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That's a good point. Like fishing in Alaska kind
00:59:37
of a thing. Yeah. Pays well, but you might die. Yeah. Or go crazy from just being just sitting
00:59:42
somewhere. Like podcasting. Yeah. Pays well, but you might die. Just from sitting somewhere.
00:59:49
Just from sitting and talking. It's dangerous. Typically when a northern lighthouse board boat approached the dock at Eileen Moore the lighthouse keepers would come down the long staircase from a lighthouse to the dock at the bottom of the cliff Like they could see a boat coming from far away and they knew that meant to go downstairs
01:00:06
The staircase has to make a hairpin turn because the cliff is so steep. And as the Hesperus approaches, they can clearly see that no one is coming down the stairs to
01:00:14
greet them. The boat fires a rocket, which ordinarily, of course, would elicit a reaction from the
01:00:20
lighthouse keepers, but it is like eerily quiet, not a sign of a person. Not cool.
01:00:26
Joseph gets off the boat to see what the hell's going on. He leaves behind the captain and the small crew.
01:00:31
He goes up there alone. No, thank you. And he starts making his way up the stairs to the top of the cliff.
01:00:37
And Joseph is gripped by a terrible sense of foreboding while he makes this long climb
01:00:42
up the steep hill. Me too, during cardio. Every time. Yeah. It makes you lightheaded.
01:00:48
It's like, this does not feel right. This is bad. This shouldn't be happening. This is going to turn out bad.
01:00:57
I have a bad feeling about this. When Joseph gets to the top of the cliff, he enters the men's living quarters at the
01:01:04
base of the lighthouse. The doors are closed. Inside, the beds are made. The kitchen is clean.
01:01:11
This is almost like creepier than it had been totally overturned. There's one chair knocked over.
01:01:17
Just one. That's the only fucking weird thing. You know what I mean? That's creepy.
01:01:22
Yeah. All the clocks are unwound, which suggests that no one's been in the residence for at least a week because that's how often the clocks need to be wound.
01:01:30
So there's some deduction. So then Joseph goes up to the lighthouse tower and sees that the light itself is full of fuel.
01:01:37
It's clean. It's functional. He also finds a canary in a cage, which was kept at the top of the tower for some reason.
01:01:46
the canary is starving but still alive. And then I wrote peachy. Peachy, a bitter little bird.
01:01:52
A bitter little bird. I wonder if they're kept there for some kind of a, like if there's a gas escaping. Yeah. Like a canary in a coal mine.
01:02:01
Yeah. Type of thing. I mean, I guess that's really weird. Or maybe they were just keeping
01:02:06
a bird. Maybe it's just company. Yeah. Although I think that thing was probably really loud.
01:02:10
You know, you're in a bad spot when you need bird company. right when you need bird company or a bird to tell you if the air is safe to breathe
01:02:17
that's like extreme living yeah get a dog at this point joseph is like oh fuck runs down the stairs
01:02:25
summons more people from the boat to come help him search the island two men return to the island
01:02:30
with joseph while the captain takes the boat back to the mainland to send telegram to the northern
01:02:34
lighthouse board the telegram opens with a dreadful accident has happened at flannins
01:02:41
So they're already like, there's nowhere they could have gone. Something's fucking wrong.
01:02:45
Yeah, it's bad. Joseph and the two other men stay on the island to keep the lighthouse lit and to keep trying to figure out what's going on.
01:02:52
On the western side of the island where the steepest cliff face is. So there's a little tramway that was built to haul supplies from the ships.
01:03:01
This tramway has iron railings and the men find that the iron railings have been bent fully in half.
01:03:08
on a path that runs along the same cliff near the tramway. There's usually a canvas life preserver attached to a bolt
01:03:14
in the rock face, like really high up. And that's been ripped away. And a scrape of canvas is still connected to the bolt.
01:03:22
Almost like a monster came and just fucking flung everything. There's also a very sturdy bolted down box,
01:03:29
which usually contains supplies. That's gone. And there's a larger boulder on the island
01:03:34
that's always been in one specific spot, seemingly immovable, and that's been dislodged and rolled away.
01:03:40
Fuck. Wait, where is it? Is it further away? Or do we know? Or is it gone? I don't know.
01:03:47
It says rolled away, meaning maybe it's still there. So probably still there. God.
01:03:51
Yeah. Now, all of this points to, obviously, as you said, an extreme storm. However, the weather on the day the lighthouse was first reported to be dark,
01:04:01
December 15th, was maybe a little stormy, but not super remarkable. Also, the people who put in those things, the tram and the supply box and the rock,
01:04:12
probably did so having known what the strongest storm was going to be. Yes. You know what I mean?
01:04:19
Yes. Right. They didn't just like put it in there and be like, I hope no storm is worse than a normal storm.
01:04:25
I hope nothing crazy and big and windy happens out here in the middle of the ocean.
01:04:29
Right. Exactly. Fingers crossed. Yeah. You'd think there'd be plans. But there was a massive storm a few days later, but that wouldn't explain the light being out days before.
01:04:40
Right. Yeah. So giving further credence to this having happened before the big storm, Joseph can pinpoint when during the day on the 15th, something must have happened based on the chores around the lighthouse.
01:04:52
They've clearly been done. They do things at a certain time, probably, and make beds and have like they're organized.
01:04:58
Right. Yeah, I hope so. They're not living in chaos. he knows when the men completed all of their morning work and that whatever happened to them
01:05:06
must have happened in the afternoon because that morning work had been completed which I love the
01:05:10
deduction there yeah like they're not waking up one day and it's mayhem and they have to run all
01:05:15
over and forget to wash the dishes because they have to run out and do a thing it's like normal
01:05:19
day as far as you can tell they're not like us there's not like you know chip bags next to their
01:05:25
beds until they decide to clean them up three days later. If someone came into this office I'm
01:05:31
in right now, they'd just be like, oh, things are not okay with her. She's hoarding. She's
01:05:37
lightly hoarding like printer paper. And she's got a lot of clothes that she wants to drop off
01:05:43
at the Goodwill, but she's simply not doing it. There's no way she's a lighthouse keeper,
01:05:48
essentially. She's not qualified. She's not qualified. She's never done it. And she needs to stop asking.
01:05:55
Okay So then back in the lodging quarters James and Thomas waterproof coats are missing from their hooks but Donald coat is still there So that kind of explains some but not totally what going on Joseph turns his attention
01:06:11
While you're describing this to me, I'm going to write down my theory. Okay. Sorry, I just got something popped into my head.
01:06:17
If you write the word wave down, I'll be very angry. If you write rogue wave. And then recommend the band Rogue Wave.
01:06:24
And then, yeah, we should start a band called Rogue Wave. There is a band called Rogue Wave.
01:06:28
I know, I know. They're the best. I know. So then Joseph's like, let's go to the logbook.
01:06:33
There's a logbook, turns out. And there he finds some strange entries. So the log is generally supposed to be about weather conditions and practical matters.
01:06:41
It's not your fucking love life. You're just supposed to be like, here's what happened.
01:06:45
Fog rolled in. Fog rolled out. The end. The end. Dear diary. But in the days leading up to the disappearance, there's one entry that simply says, James Ducat, irritable.
01:06:58
And another says, MacArthur crying. So what the fuck? That is, to me, the creepiest part of this.
01:07:06
And the most, like, something else is going on story. The last entry from December 15th says, quote, storm ended, sea calm, God is over all, end quote.
01:07:20
So that like now we're talking about like why I'm telling the story on the podcast.
01:07:26
Like that's fucking creepy. Because the idea of like the threat of a terrible storm is kind of argued in the logbook.
01:07:33
Because there shouldn't be any logbook entries about people crying or someone being irritable or something going wrong.
01:07:41
It's supposed to say this storm, that storm, maybe some fucking longitudinal numbers, you know, basic stuff that you and I wouldn't really understand or think is interesting.
01:07:51
Yeah, I got you. It's technical. It is not personal. Yes. That whole thing. That's why you were saying it's not Dear Diary in any way.
01:07:59
Also, especially back then, I think it's a pretty big goddamn deal to write down that a man is crying.
01:08:04
A man's crying and irritable. And also those men would have access to the logbooks and would have seen that someone wrote that about them. So it's just kind of weird.
01:08:13
Yeah. Now, I will say, and I have to say this in fairness, some people think these entries were forged. And also they appear to have first come into public consciousness in pulp magazine articles after the fact. But they are always mentioned in every retelling of the story. So it's up to you if you want to believe them. I think it's true.
01:08:33
We might as well believe everything at this moment. Let's do it. And then we can change our mind later.
01:08:38
Right. So the most popular working theory, let's get into some theories, is that some kind of bad weather or waves that started damaging the box of supplies that was ultimately washed away.
01:08:48
Like they went after that supply box. So James and Thomas, whose coats were missing, ran out to start securing the box.
01:08:56
And then something happened. And then Donald ran out without his coat, which is why it was left behind, to help them.
01:09:01
and people believe that they were all swept away by a massive wave. When the superintendent of the Northern Lighthouse Board visits the island to make his own inquiry,
01:09:10
this is the conclusion he comes up with. Sure, makes sense. After the disappearance, a photographer visits the island in bad weather
01:09:18
and documents the massive waves that can reach up and over the top of the cliffs,
01:09:23
which, fuck, can you imagine? Like, take me home. And also, if the storm is that bad and the waves are that big,
01:09:30
then you can assume there's some nice strong gusts of wind that are whipping all over that
01:09:35
island as well. That's right. This is what's wrong with me is I don't think about stuff like that.
01:09:39
So I bring a dumb, cute jacket. And then I'm fucking freezing and soaking wet wherever I go.
01:09:44
I've been with you when it's been 13 degrees in Washington, DC. And you're like, I've got this
01:09:48
leather jacket and a bear and a dress and bare legs. And I'm just gonna do this thing.
01:09:54
I definitely I'm real cocky. California of you. I'm real cocky. So it is possible.
01:10:01
Just strange that it happened on the 15th when no one seems to have noticed particularly bad weather.
01:10:06
Like they would have noted it and other sailors would have noted it if there were bad weather.
01:10:12
And it's also highly unlikely that all three men went out at one time because someone always had to stay back at the lighthouse.
01:10:18
So this would mean that there had to have been multiple massive waves to wash all three men away.
01:10:24
So we're not believing that one. Oh, okay. Great. No, we can, but we're not. Then we start getting into other theories about disagreements between the
01:10:33
men that led to some sort of violence. Remember, there was that one chair knocked over. People
01:10:37
point out that MacArthur had hated working at the lighthouse and was actually known to have a
01:10:42
history of fighting, but there's really no hard evidence that points to anything having happened
01:10:46
between the men. And then, of course, we have to get into the paranormal, the fun stuff.
01:10:51
What was that show when we were kids? Amazing Stories. Oh, I don't think I ever saw that.
01:10:57
Oh my God. Amazing stories. I'm going to look that up. So when we talk about the paranormal,
01:11:01
there are the legends about the fairies and the phantom and the group of original Islanders.
01:11:06
Those all come up, of course. And then the theory is that one of these forces was resentful for the new lighthouse
01:11:12
because remember it had just been built. Oh yeah. And so it took out the three lighthouse keepers
01:11:16
for that reason. Hmm. And of course you can't escape the theory of fucking aliens.
01:11:23
Aliens? Aliens. No. And actually this is explored. Scottish aliens? No way. No, no, no. The lighthouse keepers aren't aliens. The aliens come down.
01:11:33
Okay. To attack. You just don't think they'd go to Scotland. I just don't. I think that that's where they're going to get the most resistance,
01:11:39
the most fist fighting. Hell yeah. Anywhere. Scotland, Ireland. You just don't mess with those people.
01:11:46
You absolutely should not. Don't do it. And actually that theme is explored in an episode of Doctor Who.
01:11:51
Oh, really? That's how they disappeared. That's hilarious. Yeah. So the lighthouse continues to operate with lighthouse keepers without an incident
01:12:00
until the 1970s when it becomes automated, which is like, you know. Tragic. Yeah. And it's inspired lots of retellings in pop culture. The band Genesis, I thought you'd love
01:12:11
this, recorded a song called The Mystery of Flannan Isle Lighthouse in the late 60s.
01:12:17
Oh. Your favorite band. Love that band. And in 2019, Gerard Butler starred in a very loose retelling of the mystery called The Vanishing.
01:12:27
The Vanishing. Yeah. If Gerard Butler stars in it, I've definitely seen it because that was my friend Jacob and I.
01:12:33
We would watch Gerard Butler movies as they came out on Amazon together. Like we would hit play at the same time and then text each other during the movie.
01:12:42
So I've literally not missed a Gerard Butler movie for like five years. It's wild.
01:12:48
What do you recommend? What's the best one? I mean, it depends on what you're looking for.
01:12:52
There's one where is it aliens attack or it's like the end of the world kind of situation.
01:12:57
and he has to go... Gerard Butler's always playing like a rock-like character. He's like a very noble father who has to go get his family
01:13:05
and maybe his wife who's trying to leave him, but he convinces her to stay because he rescues them Ooh like a Pedro Pascal kind of a thing Yes Okay Yeah Love it Well that wraps up the story of the Flannan Isle Lighthouse Mystery
01:13:21
I didn't get a chance to give my theory. Oh, yeah. What was it? Gigantic gust of wind.
01:13:27
So the guy that stays behind whose jacket is there watches the two guys get blown off the cliff and into the ocean.
01:13:35
Right. Like you're going to be like, fuck protocol. You're going to fucking go down there and be like, at least could I throw them that life preserver that's stuck to the side of the cliff or something?
01:13:43
Right. Like in a panic. But the wind would still be going. Right. And then he gets out there and just also gets blown off.
01:13:49
I like that one. That was good. All right. Thank you. Yours was great. Mine was a stretch, but let's just keep it.
01:13:56
Listen, we want to sometimes talk about things that are more fun to talk about. And maybe mysterious, but not, you know.
01:14:04
A total downer. Not the worst thing you've ever heard. We just try to turn it every once in a while just to bring it up before we leave you hanging
01:14:12
for the rest of your week. Right. And you made it and you did it and we're proud of you.
01:14:19
We're so proud of you. You are the lighthouse keeper of our souls. You really are We would never automate you We would never We can We can And we won We need you a real human in that lighthouse the lighthouse of podcasting That right And so thank you for doing it
01:14:35
Thank you. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
01:14:48
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
01:14:53
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalachi. Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.
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