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Visit WeatherTech.com today. Goodbye. Hello. And welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:01:55
Yeah. Rewind. Rewind. Every Wednesday, we recap our old episodes with all new commentary updates and insights.
00:02:02
And today we're recapping episode 48, which we named an Albert Fish production. Sorry, that's true crime enthusiasts.
00:02:16
I know, I almost did a spit take. It's like. That's the only, yeah, no one else cares, but true crime people.
00:02:21
It's horrible and hilarious. you get that Stephen J. Cannell typewriter. He throws the piece of paper in the air,
00:02:27
but it's Albert Fish. This episode came out on December 21st, 2016. And that means it was conceived on March 29th, 2016.
00:02:36
You do the math. Our podcasts, do they go for nine months or do we like alien egg?
00:02:42
It's human. Podcasts are human baby length of fertilization. I disagree. I'm an earther or whatever.
00:02:50
What do I call it? you're a flat i'm a flat fertilization yeah anyway let's listen to the intro of episode 48
00:02:57
nothing it just feels like it's been a long time it does oh it has it has been yeah are we
00:03:08
recording yes good good because we need to get this figured out it has been i guess we i guess
00:03:13
almost two weeks is that right since like apartment recording yeah because we did our
00:03:20
bell house show last week yeah that was a fun that was different that was nuts that was nuts
00:03:26
that was a break from reality it was super fun we love you jamie lee jamie lee's book's coming out
00:03:32
that's right um thanks for being ridiculous is coming out i called it wetalicious you did
00:03:38
with the absolute confidence that's all that matters is when you say stuff yeah yeah it they
00:03:44
should change the title right now that's exactly well they might have to right um hi this is my
00:03:48
Favorite Murder. It's a podcast starring George Harsdark and Karen Gilgareff. Our sound technician
00:03:55
is a man named Stephen, Stephen Ray Morris. And his mustache. And this is day 403 of Stephen's
00:04:04
mustache. We've been counting. He's doing it. He's going to grow it all the way around his mouth.
00:04:09
I think that's my personal. I thought you were going to say his head. That would be funny,
00:04:13
but just tie it in the back. Oh my God, why is that not a thing? Just a mustache fucking...
00:04:20
Sounds like a nightmare. Yeah. You have to do it now, Stephen. You have to. Only for you, Karen.
00:04:26
Stephen. Speaking of only for us, Stephen brought a... Okay, Stephen is like, does everything for us.
00:04:31
Does everything. He's so fucking sweet and wonderful. And also thinks about things,
00:04:35
like much more than we do. Because we didn't know this was going to be a thing. Right, but he did.
00:04:40
He did and he was prepared for it. He prints things out for us and plans. But also he brings us presents.
00:04:47
He brought us Christmas holiday presents. We have non-denominational holiday presents
00:04:51
at each seat on the couch. I know. So we decided we're going to open them on the air with you guys.
00:04:56
I know what this is going to be. Oh, my God, Steven. It sounds amazing. Oh, my God.
00:05:00
Is this fuck? I fucking knew it. He got us serial killer baseball cards. Holy shit, Steven.
00:05:07
True crime, G-men, mass murderers, serial killers and gangsters. And they're like baseball card packets.
00:05:12
Steven I'm gonna fucking have a seizure right now this is really good are these like old
00:05:17
yeah like these are like hard to find yeah they're from like the 90s I'm like I see people post these
00:05:25
on the fucking Facebook page like I've had these since the 90s and everyone's like fuck you
00:05:29
and you got like five packs of them for both of them this is really good is there gum in there
00:05:37
I wouldn't eat it if there was I'm going to and then I'll sue you if anything happened and now there's a secondary another bigger one because he's a classy man that gives
00:05:46
you a small gift with this bigger gift underneath it oh my god oh my god what is it it's his memoir
00:05:51
of what assholes we are what you get let see it the book it a vintage book oh my god this is the book of vicki morgan and alfred bloomingdale and the affair that shook the highest levels of government and society Oh my god This is the British one right It was the woman in Washington D
00:06:07
Oh, D.C. Where she was the dominatrix and there was sex scandals. The cover of that book is fucking I Want That on a Shirt.
00:06:13
Wait, when is this written? Like the 80s? This one is by Larry, uh, Connor. It's called Cults That Kill, Probing the Underworld of a Cult Crime?
00:06:24
Yes. Steven, it's like you know us. I thought for a second, I thought this book was about somebody that was in the Bengals.
00:06:34
It totally is. Because that's totally the color palette. This was written in 1988.
00:06:37
I'm so fucking, like at the height of the satanic panic. This is so good, Steven.
00:06:41
I call it the satanic panic. Steven, we got you a bottle of single malt scotch. We got you this old wrapping paper.
00:06:50
Oh my God, Steven, I'm sweating because I'm so happy. That's really good. I can't wait to, I don't think I should open these
00:06:57
You give and you give I'm just glad you like them You should open one of the packs
00:07:02
Good idea, I'm doing it, let's do it Also when we talked about the plan was that we were going to open these on the air
00:07:09
and Stephen, would you say it would be good for Oh, ASMR Oh yeah Oh my god, oh my god
00:07:16
What'd you get, read a couple I got the Hall Mills case which on September 16th, 1922
00:07:23
a couple walking down a country lane near New Brunswick, New Jersey, found two bodies lying
00:07:28
under a crab apple tree. It was Reverend Edward Hall, 41, and Mrs. Eleanor Mills, 32, a member
00:07:35
of his church choir. He had been, both had been shot. Her throat had been cut. Oh, wait, I've
00:07:40
heard this story. This is, we're only picking our murders from these decks from now on.
00:07:45
We just shuffled them up. It's weird, they're only from the 90s and before. Our work has been done. Okay, mine, I have one, Clifford Olson,
00:07:53
who looks like a real fucking piece of work. Look at him. Ba-ba-ba-ba-ba. Okay. That's a good dramatic painting.
00:08:01
Let's see here. So November 1980, a 12-year-old British Columbia girl disappeared.
00:08:06
Her mutilated body was found a month later. In 81, a 13-year-old girl vanished, followed by a 16-year-old boy a week later.
00:08:13
The boy was found dead. His skull crushed. In May, a 16-year-old girl disappeared.
00:08:18
And then in June, a 13-year-old girl. And then in July, Jesus, I'm doing him for my next number.
00:08:23
Murder. no spoilers no yeah are you reading till the end fuck that's good these steven these are
00:08:30
amazing cases these are like treasures that i will treasure forever and ever and we're gonna
00:08:36
start trading them i've never i've never heard of half of these people jack the stripper i'm not
00:08:41
kidding yeah what'd he do stripper uh in 59 a i'm gonna i'm gonna rephrase this go ahead a sex worker
00:08:49
was strangled and clad only in her slip was found near their Thames. Thames? Thames? Thames?
00:08:56
Oh, shit. It's one of those ones. The only reason I know it. It's not. It's one of those
00:09:00
famous ones that I should I've been to. And I should fucking know. Thames? She was found. Shit happened.
00:09:08
Look, Sonny Bean. Remember I did that one. This is the I am honestly like glowing
00:09:14
right now. This is best Christmas ever, Stephen. This is the best Hanukkah ever, Stephen.
00:09:18
Richard Cottingham. Wait a second. I'm Jewish? Hold on. What? What? Richard Cottingham is the one I just did on the last episode.
00:09:28
You just did him and you... And then he walks through the door. Shit. You got out of jail already.
00:09:34
Oh my God, you did. I'm going to open all of these. This painting makes him look way better than he actually looks in real life.
00:09:39
What if we have a whole... Okay, what if the next, the mini-sode, is just us opening these and reading them to each other?
00:09:44
That's a great idea. Let's absolutely do that for real. These are amazing cases.
00:09:49
It's happening. And also look at how hot this guy is. Who's that? I don't know. He's kind of like Mick Jaggery, but younger.
00:09:56
Tune in to the next Minnesota. Yeah. So yeah. Holy shit. That's exciting. You're a fucking angel.
00:10:04
What's even what? Oh, I was going to say they were very controversial at the time because they were like people were
00:10:09
obsessed with them. I remember. Remember they had those the playing cards of cold cases that they would give to inmates.
00:10:15
Oh, yeah. in prison so that they would like be playing with these cards and then like read about the victim
00:10:22
and be like this fucking dude i was in prison with has admitted to this and like there i think there
00:10:27
are not a lot but a couple cases that got solved because of that that's a brilliant idea yeah i do
00:10:34
remember though when these came out it was like how dare you was the kind of overall it was like
00:10:39
so sick with like similar to our podcast we are the how dare you podcast of today
00:10:47
but for different reasons we're the we're the our and our podcast comes with a stick of shitty gum
00:10:52
um that's right our podcast uh listening to it is the same thing as eating old powdery pink
00:11:00
flaky hard to chew a baseball card gum remember when you would just like eat it out of not spite
00:11:08
but just like i bought this yeah it's the thing i pick yeah vince buys the wrestling ones a lot
00:11:15
like the old school wrestling ones too and yeah i think he burns the gum uh-huh burns it i don't
00:11:21
know smokes it what if he just was like addicted to oh my god vintage gum the fumes of vintage gum
00:11:28
that sounds like the new like what like what parents get told like they're the junior high
00:11:32
kids are into now you see old gum in your kids room on the next 2020 they're smoking it uh i would
00:11:40
just like to say really quick that at that show we had so many great people it was crazy and we
00:11:45
got to say hi to so many awesome listeners which was really fun it is and um everyone at the bell
00:11:51
house we have to give yes they they stayed late to like let us um talk to all the people who stuck around and they were really cool at like moving the line along they didn have to do that they were no they were great the whole staff was amazing the
00:12:05
whole staff was great thank you andrew for booking us this was our little our own booking long ago
00:12:10
where we thought um this would be fun and it and we were right oh yeah um i would just like to say
00:12:16
uh my thanks to my friend carrie who came to see me and he literally yelled hey over uh like five
00:12:23
people and then walked away because he didn't want to have to wait in line um oh i met him he
00:12:28
was nine yes and same with my friend cullen who apparently just sent me a message saying yeah i
00:12:33
wasn't gonna wait around and then my friend david knowles who you did meet who i've known since we
00:12:39
were 12 years old we met in sixth grade i went to the freshman winter formal with him he waited in
00:12:45
line and he was the second to last person in line and when the like third to last person walked away
00:12:51
I go, the fuck are you? I'm going to see you after. It was like he waited a long time to see you.
00:12:57
He probably thought everyone knew you. Yes, exactly. He was like, these are all parents' friends.
00:13:01
We're trying to say hi in an organized fashion. It was so nice. We, again, got a lot of fucking amazing presents.
00:13:05
I got some of, I just keep getting the best cat toys ever. Like that's the whole, that's my scheme for this podcast is to get free cat toys.
00:13:14
We got a lot of cat toys and what was in that other bag? In the bigger bag. Makeup.
00:13:20
Yes. oh that makeup um i also want so we need to if you go to our instagram it's my favorite murder
00:13:26
i post a lot of like the photos and stuff of what people gave us and shout outs and shit one thing
00:13:30
we got that i just need to fucking i got in the mail and started opening it and i was like can't
00:13:35
open this i'm gonna cry without karen so this person this this girl named uh molly has this
00:13:43
website called the urban smith.com and she makes this like incredible jewelry and metal working and
00:13:50
like these gorgeous things and she made us these necklaces that are so beautiful and delicate
00:13:55
but they stay sexy on them yeah they're so beautiful our twins these necklaces and then
00:14:00
she made me these two little charms that look like if um elvis or mimi ever let me in my fucking life
00:14:04
put a collar on them without murdering me that would you put these on it and it's just these
00:14:10
little beautiful um monogram things that say elvis and mimi that i'm gonna wear as a neck like
00:14:15
they're so beautiful yeah they're really nice so the urban smith i just wanted to give a shout out
00:14:20
to whoever gave us the color pop lippy stick yeah color pop brand we got eyeshadow and we got
00:14:26
lipstick but this lippy sticks color pop lippy sticks in the color poison i think they wrote
00:14:31
and said i hope this is a color that you can use because i've talked so much about she knows you
00:14:35
lipstick it's it's so perfect because it's a really good color but it also stays on it's like
00:14:40
a stain god bless america and we're not and we don't so yeah don't worry about it yeah and so
00:14:45
We always will. On my favorite murder Facebook page, there were two meetups that I got to look at this morning.
00:14:53
One from Portland, Oregon, one from Austin. And they were so cute. And the thing that kills me is how much crafting people put in.
00:15:02
They do, I mean. Is that the one that did the serial killer drawings? That was, I'm going to have to look which one did the drawing.
00:15:09
That's not up to you. I have it on a piece of paper. That's all right. I wrote it on this piece of paper right here.
00:15:15
Portland did the drawings. Oh, Portland. They did like coloring book pages. Coloring books of serial killers.
00:15:20
Of serial killers. I love it. And on the Austin meetup, they had all kinds of crass, but my favorite was they had name
00:15:27
tags that said, my favorite murder is, and then they wrote who their favorite murderer
00:15:32
is on the bottom. So one lady is like smiling, but it just says Albert Fish. I love the idea that he's your favorite.
00:15:41
That's such a great idea. Because then you can come up to someone and be like, oh my God, I know a lot about that
00:15:44
one too. And then you guys talk about it. like and then it's not awkward like at parties that's the whole point dude everyone's doing it
00:15:50
dude um i get i think that's all of our business oh um live show shit there's some drama going on
00:15:56
we're not going to talk about it we're going to say that we have no control over tickets none
00:16:01
control shows or scalping places yeah i mean we're really excited they know that we're gonna
00:16:08
there's gonna be more if we're not going to your city it's because we're saving it we're saving the
00:16:12
best for last. That's right. It's because we don't choose where to go. That's right. I'm not going to
00:16:18
say the one state I refuse to go to. I wouldn't. I'm not going to. Please don't. Okay, great. You'll
00:16:23
know when we've gone to 50. 50? 50. How many are there? Are there 52? No, that's cards in a deck.
00:16:30
That's cards in a murder deck. Let's go back to the cards. What do you want to talk about? I guess
00:16:36
I think I just had an idea. Let's hear it. What about merch of baseball hats with just...
00:16:43
Baseball hats! With just a single face of a murderer on it. Like a drawling or like a fucking sketch?
00:16:51
I think it would have to be a drawling. Drawling. Don't nobody steal this. I swear to fucking God, if I see this on...
00:16:57
If I see this on fucking Etsy, I'll come to your house. Well, this just means we have tonight, Sunday,
00:17:03
we have until Thursday to fucking make this goddamn happen. Steven mute it. Steven.
00:17:07
Steven. Kat Solon get on this. Please. Wouldn't you wear just like. Baseball hat's a great idea.
00:17:12
Because right. A black hat. And then just Albert Fish's face on it. What if it was.
00:17:17
Is what I'm talking about. What if it was one of those beanies that you pull over your face.
00:17:21
And it has the eye in the mouth. Those are called balaclavas. And it just said my favorite murder is.
00:17:26
And you just pull it. And it's just like a thing that says Albert Fish. This is intellectual copyright property.
00:17:33
We own this. Own it. And we can prove it in a court of law. Yeah. Don't you steal the balaclava idea.
00:17:38
We'll come. What's it called? Balaclava. The thing that you pull over that like bank robbers use.
00:17:43
That's I didn't know that's what it was called. Yeah. We will come to every 50 fucking state and fucking track you down.
00:17:49
Except for the one. Except for the one that I refuse to go to. It's Maine. Just kidding.
00:17:53
It's not. It's not. It not It no way man They got fucking lobsters Anyway that lobsters I actually love Maine and I wanted to go there since i was a kid because i used to read these books called meg i think it was called meg of maine and we going i think that was what it was called i would go to fucking
00:18:09
maine so hard yeah let's just add a weird tour let's have a weird tour called we're just like
00:18:14
we do what we want yeah we do what we want there's not enough people to fill whatever fucking
00:18:18
nobody cares they don't fucking like you they're just trying to make a fucking living we're gonna
00:18:23
to go to Maine. We're going to go to Oneida, New York. We're going to go to Montreal where they
00:18:28
don't like anything. We're going to go to down to way California, which is the worst thing that
00:18:33
ever happened in my fucking life. Yep. Wouldn't it be amazing to go to Irvine and not sell any
00:18:38
tickets? Oh my God. Amazing. Just be like, um, it's just all, you know, every girl who made fun
00:18:43
of me in elementary school gets in for free. Yeah. And they, and they get a front row seat.
00:18:47
They text and talk to each other. That'd be, God, this is turning into like an Albert Brooks movie.
00:18:53
we an albert fish movie oh my an albert fish productions uh that's the best name for a
00:19:01
production company and it's just a cartoon of him with all those pins inside of him oh my god
00:19:07
he's so gross all right do we have to do the murder part this is so fun um there are those who say we do have to do it um last time you went first okay
00:19:22
you pointed at me and then moved your finger towards yourself i was just kind of ready to go
00:19:27
with whatever you said i do love that in the live episode uh at the at the venue we were like
00:19:31
how to ask the audience who went first last time and a bunch of like care georgia like they knew
00:19:37
i know it's so sweet it's uh because they know we don't know anything that was so fun and the
00:19:44
craziest thing to me is someone who wasn't there said at one hour and 15 minutes in did i hear guy
00:19:50
Branham laugh oh we got like seven of those that's that's amazing yeah and you did because
00:19:56
there's people who are Guy Branham who is our friend and he's also a co-host of Pop Rocket
00:20:01
which is a very popular podcast but also he's a well-known comedian and he has the most distinctive
00:20:07
laugh that makes you want to start laughing yeah it's amazing he's so nice like this is this is how
00:20:13
low it is in LA but he remembered my name when he met after he met me and Vince is the same way too
00:20:19
where it's like he didn't have to remember our name like that's how low it is where it's like
00:20:23
you remembered my name he's so nice you're just looking for some decency yeah yeah he read uh how
00:20:29
to do things with friends and and then remember them he wrote he read that book yeah um all right
00:20:35
i just coughed and burped at the same time but i just want to say i want to delay this one more
00:20:41
minute class because i have defiance disorder is that a thing yeah i have it too yeah i don't know
00:20:48
what it is it's just that you can't do what people want you oh my god i fucking have that yeah uh it
00:20:52
makes sense with both of us it does um i'm learning a lot from you though i have a very bad i'm learning
00:20:58
that it's okay from you it is i mean it's fine because everybody has something i once had a
00:21:03
fucking soccer coach when i was like in junior high hold his fist up to my face and say you need
00:21:07
to stop fucking being defiant and i was like fuck you and did you walk away yeah the hell yeah girl
00:21:13
That's right. He's probably a fucking. I was just going to say, that's the show I'm working on right now is Guy Branham show.
00:21:20
Yeah. That's the, um, yeah, it just makes it's, I don't have to be secret about it because I'm happy that Guy Branham gets to have a show
00:21:28
and it's going to be on true TV in like probably spring called talk show. The game show.
00:21:32
It's going to be awesome. That reminds me of from Bojack Horseman of, uh, what was it like celebrities?
00:21:38
Do they know anything? What do they know? Let's find out. Um, that's Guy Branham deserves a show.
00:21:43
show so much so much that guy is he's a fucking lawyer literally what yes he is a law degree
00:21:49
shut the fuck up yeah yeah he's smarter than everybody jesus yeah national fucking treasure
00:21:56
and murder time okay okay we're back i owe jamie lee a huge apology for calling her book which is called ridiculous
00:22:10
Wediculous. Is it? It's Wediculous. That's the real name. That's the real name. I kept calling
00:22:16
it and it still looks like that to me. Wedlicious. Right? They both work. Wediculous. Maybe if the book was about wedding cakes, yours would be better.
00:22:28
Wedlicious is like a different person than Jamie. You know, than the person who would write
00:22:32
Wediculous. So yeah, it's a totally different vibe. And it's bad marketing. Exactly. So there's that. And I apologize.
00:22:41
I do like, though, that you stated fuck writing a book, which then future you, it's like you could feel it coming.
00:22:48
Oh, someone's going to make me. Someone's going to make me. No, I fucking I don't know why I would say that because that was like my dream my whole life. But it's just so daunting. I had to be forced to write it for sure. Even though I wanted to do it. So yeah, that's how writing is.
00:23:02
It is. That's how anything is. That's how everything is. Oh, you want that? Work hard. No.
00:23:08
No. Now you ruined it. How about you hand it to me for once? Are you listening to me? I can't tell.
00:23:15
I don't want to. Okay, we're going to now go into Georgia's story from this episode. It's about the starved Rock
00:23:25
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someone, if you're nervous about the money, if you're nervous about leaving the house,
00:25:44
you don't have to deal with any of that. They have covered it. And for me, like that is best
00:25:49
way to get into therapy. Take all the what ifs out. You know, you got to do it. You know, you do.
00:25:53
As a listener of this podcast, you'll get $80 off of your first month with Talkspace when you go to Talkspace.com slash MFM and enter promo code SPACE80.
00:26:02
That's S-P-A-C-E-8-0. To match with a licensed therapist today, go to Talkspace.com slash MFM and enter promo code SPACE80.
00:26:11
Goodbye. So remember we were talking about national parks and how everyone gets murdered in them constantly?
00:26:17
And it's like, what the fuck? I have one for you today that I'd never heard about.
00:26:22
and then I you know okay I looked it up okay here's the name of the fucking state park it's
00:26:27
called starved rock state park so immediately you're like oh shit can I guess where it is
00:26:33
yeah Wyoming Illinois it's not but you know they're probably real close to each other thank you
00:26:38
they're probably close did you see the meme someone made of it's just it's a photo of what
00:26:45
like Wyoming and it says over the top and whatever state is next to Wyoming that's what you said i can't pretend i cannot pretend we're so smart in certain things oh
00:26:57
and so dumb in most things and yet defiant as fuck so that's why fuck you that's why
00:27:05
we're still not starting this murder tv god damn it okay star rock state park it's a state park
00:27:11
it's a hundred miles outside of Chicago. Um, the reason it's named this, okay, so it's a rock fortress on the Illinois river,
00:27:22
a band of, and I'm going to say this wrong and sound like such a fucking asshole.
00:27:26
Uh, Illiniwic Indians lived there originally in the 17th. And then in the 17th century,
00:27:32
they're besieged by a bunch of fucking assholes. They like kind of lock them in.
00:27:37
And so the people who didn't die by trying to escape the Indians were, died from starving so fuck yeah okay so on march 14th 1960 these three suburban housewives who are
00:27:50
from um a little bit outside of this area rivers they're in riverside three suburban housewives
00:27:57
go to uh star rock state park for a long weekend they're all just like let's get the fuck out of
00:28:04
here one of the women had like um convalesced her husband through a heart attack they needed
00:28:08
to get the fuck out of town. They wanted to go and enjoy the area's hiking trails.
00:28:13
It's apparently gorgeous. They're staying at the Starbrock Lodge. Excuse me, I burped.
00:28:20
So this is Lillian Edding, Mildred Lindquist, they're both 50, and Francis Murphy, who's 47.
00:28:28
The young one. They're wives of business executives. They're mothers of grown children.
00:28:34
and they're prominent in their town for civic involvement and their friends through the
00:28:40
Riverside Presbyterian Church. So they're good fucking women, you know, they're like,
00:28:45
we deserve like, this is, this is their, um, what's it called when they, yeah. Girls weekend. Yes. I just had that feeling. Um, right. As you finished that last sentence,
00:28:57
that they're all going to die. Well, yeah, it was the, and you know what that feeling feels
00:29:01
like to me when I remember what we're doing it feels like when the dentist puts the lead
00:29:05
blanket over you and you get your x-rays taken yeah so then it's just like oh yeah and you're
00:29:10
like this lead thing isn't gonna do anything too it's like that lead thing where they're like this
00:29:16
is probably it's gonna maybe yeah but anyway yeah that's it this is the lead blanket of sadness
00:29:22
they check into the lodge they put their luggage in their rooms and then they have lunch at the
00:29:28
lodge is like beautiful restaurant and then they're like we're gonna go for a hike like post
00:29:33
lunch hike okay well that evening Lillian's husband uh is supposed to hear from his wife
00:29:40
and so he doesn't and he calls the staff and the staff is like oh no we saw them but they're not in
00:29:45
the room right now they'll call you tomorrow the next day he calls again and the staff again says
00:29:49
like oh no you know we saw them at lunch and they here they just probably out and then the next day there a snow crazy fucking snowstorm and so this dude Lillian husband named George is like go into my fucking wife room and see if she there They check the rooms
00:30:05
Their luggage is all packed. Their car is still in the same place. Like they clearly hadn't been there in two days.
00:30:12
So George calls law enforcement and volunteers come out and they start a search party.
00:30:19
And at the time, this local newspaper reporter hears about it. he fucking skedaddles over there and he um drives into the park and he comes across some kids near a
00:30:30
ravine who are shouting and it turns out this like local camp had been hiking and these like
00:30:37
teenage boys found bodies on one of the nearby trails which is like dude you poor kids so
00:30:45
what's what's found and the fucking newspaper guy goes up there scoop of the fucking century
00:30:51
and it was called the crime of the century for a while he finds the mutilated bodies of lillian
00:30:56
mildred and francis they're laying side by side partially covered with snow they're on their backs
00:31:02
under the ledge of a small cave and their lower clothing had been torn away and their legs were
00:31:08
spread apart which we know is a fucking sadistic as fuck way to leave someone they had all been
00:31:14
beaten viciously um in their on their heads and two were tied together with heavy twine
00:31:20
they are covered in blood and their legs were blackened with bruises poor fucking things
00:31:26
um so because this had happened two days earlier and then there was a snowstorm there were several inches of snow covering the whole area which means all this fucking evidence
00:31:39
they could have had was lost but they did some digging and they found a ton of blood beneath the
00:31:44
snow and they found a frozen tree limb that was streaked with blood and they thought that was the
00:31:49
murder weapon and then also a trail of blood led from a different area into the where the women's
00:31:55
body were found so they thought that the bodies had been dragged and positioned under the sledge
00:31:59
um the coroner said the women had obviously been obviously been quote molested but they couldn't
00:32:06
they couldn't find any evidence of rape because it had been so long and it had been snowing
00:32:11
um let's see and it seems that the time of death was pretty shortly after they had left
00:32:17
the lodge after lunch um and there was no motive for the murders because the women had left all
00:32:23
their money and jewelry in their room um and so maybe the killer got mad when he found out that
00:32:28
there was nothing on them but the strap to the camera they brought a camera and binoculars and
00:32:33
the strap to the camera was broken and there was photos of them like sightseeing on on the camera
00:32:40
which you can see online oh so the strap was broken but the camera is still there yes okay
00:32:44
so so it wasn't robbery no yeah or maybe it was attempted and the women fought back
00:32:49
something so there were no suspects for eight months and so the county state attorney whose
00:32:56
name was harold no harland warren harland that's a fucking amazing name uses own money and purchases
00:33:03
a microscope a microscope and begins like doing this crazy study of all the evidence sorry i
00:33:09
missed what year this was oh 1960 oh okay he buys his he buys his own microscope and also everyone's
00:33:17
name is something that's old-fashioned okay it's like these are all older people in 1960 so you
00:33:23
know they're all like you know from the 30s or whatever exactly um okay so he buys his own
00:33:29
microscope he begins um studying the uh evidence and he's like the twine is gonna fucking tell me
00:33:37
something where is this twine from and um he finds that there's two kinds of twine a 20 fly cord and
00:33:43
a 12 fly cord and he starts at the first place he can think of which is at the lodge and he brings
00:33:50
him to the manager of the cord and he's like does this look familiar to you and it turns out the
00:33:54
manager's like i think those were from the restaurant and they go back into the fucking
00:33:58
area where the food is kept in the fucking pantry and there's the fucking twine same fucking twine
00:34:04
So they don't have to go far to find who over did this. They do not. So they had originally, Warren had originally thought that the killer either worked at or had access to the lodge.
00:34:14
But all the lodge employees had been given polygraph tests and they all passed. But he calls them back for another round of testing.
00:34:21
And that is when a former dishwasher named Chester Otto Wager was brought in. Like that name combination.
00:34:30
No, because he has a middle name. Well, yeah, they always name the middle name. but Chester Chester's not a good way it's not a good name w-e-g-e-r wager Chester Wager you don't
00:34:40
name your child uh in a name that has the same two letters at the end on both names Chester Wager
00:34:46
oh is that a thing uh it's my personal thing I see that no I get that I've never thought about that
00:34:51
um so he's a former park employee and he had quit recently like over the summer to go paint houses
00:34:59
with his father but while he was working there he served meals to the police and reporters while
00:35:06
they were like looking up for evidence and shit so they give him um a lie detector test and the
00:35:12
tester he's like this really they brought in like a really good tester he they said his face turned
00:35:18
white after during the testing chester walks away and the tester said that's your man oh yeah so
00:35:26
Weger is 21. He's a small man. He has a wife and two young children. He had resigned that summer
00:35:33
and lodge employees reported seeing scratches on his face, but he had passed several lie detector
00:35:39
tests already. I mean, because ultimately we know that lie detector tests, they're 50-50.
00:35:46
Right. They're only right half the time. Yeah. Now we know this. And there's a reason they're
00:35:50
inadmissible in court is because they they not they they based on your heart rate and if you are like a sociopath or something you won have a reaction to you won be nervous to tell a lie You won care And if you truly believe what you thought you saw
00:36:06
So like, if it's a witness who's like, I fucking saw a man in a red jacket, I know I did.
00:36:11
And if they believe that, they're going to not have been being deceitful. Right.
00:36:15
Even if it's not true. They won't have the physical reaction. Yeah. I think someday that,
00:36:19
I think someday witness testimony is going to be just like lie detector tests where it's like,
00:36:23
this isn't admissible because everyone's a little bit not reliable. Yeah. We're all a little wrong. I think that's actually a good
00:36:30
thing to remember. Yeah. Cause I always think I remember things always. And I'm positive,
00:36:35
positive. And then, and then I'm wrong. Well, it's the same thing of like how people say like,
00:36:39
there's three sides to every story, your side, their side, and the truth. And it's like,
00:36:43
you know, the argument that you and I got into sounds this way from me and sounds that way from
00:36:48
you. And you have to be like, well, somewhere in the middle is really what happened. And you can't,
00:36:53
You have to know that you don't know. Yeah. The other person's... This is a psychology podcast.
00:37:02
It's true, though. We're so smart. I know. Like, how do we even... But not about states.
00:37:07
About feelings. Pardon me. I just thought it'd be perfect. I was going to make that one quiet, but I figured...
00:37:13
I'm putting my jacket back on. You're cold. It's so loud. I know. This is not good for audio.
00:37:20
Steven? Have a blanket. There's a blanket right there. I barely peed on it once.
00:37:25
Please. Are you cold? Yes. Karen, behind you is a thermostat. Please turn that heat on right there.
00:37:30
But. That thing that looks like a fire hazard from the 1950s. Yeah. Click that little thing up.
00:37:35
This is worth it. Kaboom. Click that up. No, no, no. To the left. The little switch.
00:37:43
Yeah. There we go. Do you see the fire and the wall right there? It's. I need to move.
00:37:49
This is an old. This is serious. the night my favorite murder got lit on fire all right okay
00:37:56
okay so they're like it's totally him and then he was like hey um i have i just happen to have
00:38:04
this buckskin jacket and i want to admit that it's covered in quote dark stains and it later
00:38:12
turned out to be human blood on this jacket i don't know he was just bringing this up yeah i
00:38:18
don't know if that's totally you know what how it happened but somehow they found a buckskin jacket
00:38:22
that was covered in dark stains that happened to be human blood but in 1960 it could not be typed
00:38:26
or matched to a specific victim which is like come on you guys get it to fucking gather they're like
00:38:31
we can't it's only 1960 it's just bloodstains at this point we just want to go to the moon
00:38:36
that's all we care about it's the 60s movies which is actually similar um her parents failed us so
00:38:46
he does further polygraph tests again he's fucked and he fails them all so the investigators begin
00:38:56
checking into similar cases in the area and they come across a reported rape and robbery that had
00:39:01
taken place a mile from starved rock in 1959 the year before a 17 year old girl had been sexually
00:39:08
assaulted and she had been um bound with twine similarly to the starved rock women okay and then
00:39:17
i you know in all my like weird digging of like old um articles and shit the one place i found in
00:39:22
one place this information um the attack had been reported by two teenagers um a boy and a girl the
00:39:30
boy said they had been robbed while the girl was sexually assaulted they um told the cops about it
00:39:36
And the officers didn't believe their story. And they sent the couple away with a cursory investigation saying that they thought the story was made up.
00:39:46
That they were robbed? That they were robbed and she was fucking sexually assaulted.
00:39:50
They were like, you little lying 17 year olds, get the fuck out of here. You know what I mean?
00:39:54
Like, why would you fucking make that up? Let's get attention. Yeah. I mean, that's what they used to say stuff like that back then, right?
00:40:02
Yeah. So maybe they should have paid attention to that. Anyways, so the victim, the female victim has brought a stack of mug shots.
00:40:09
She's sorting through them. And when she sees the photo of Chester, she starts to scream, which is so chilling.
00:40:16
Yeah. So they get a rest warrant for him on the rape because they can't prove the murders yet.
00:40:22
So they get him off the streets and then they have him in custody. They start questioning him about the rape and then they press him about the murders and
00:40:30
they keep him keep him in the interrogate in the interrogation room for hours at 2 a.m. he finally
00:40:37
um asked to see his family and um then he uh confesses but before that he's like really quick
00:40:49
though again i have a buckskin jacket i just wanted you guys to know it's the blood from the
00:40:55
buck that was fucking killed for this jacket i'm just gonna bring this up real quick because i want
00:41:00
It's pretty cool jacket. Yeah. Like, I just want you guys to like admire my jacket.
00:41:04
Okay. Anyway, no, I'll go back to my confession. So he confesses. He says that he got scared.
00:41:15
He tried to grab the women's pocketbooks and they fought him and he hit them. And the pocketbook turned out to be the camera that was around her neck.
00:41:25
He thought it was like a pocketbook. So he gives him that, that interesting detail.
00:41:29
then um he says they were like why did you drag the women into this ledge into this like cave
00:41:36
and he says it's because um he had spotted a small airplane flying low over the park and he
00:41:43
was afraid it was a state police plane so he moved the body so that they could not be seen
00:41:48
and he had said it was a red and white plane so a few days later um the cops and the detectives go
00:41:54
to the airplane base and look at the log books and there a fucking plane flying over that fucking park at the exact moment that was red and white whoa that some shit that only he could have known yes right and he told on himself he fucking he confessed yeah he confessed he confessed yeah
00:42:09
okay okay but then right after his first meeting with his court appointed attorney he changes the
00:42:18
story and says that he was innocent of all charges that the investigators had coerced him
00:42:22
into confessing and that they fucking held a gun to his head and made him sign every single one of
00:42:27
the papers. I mean, I can see that too. I mean, he said, I know he was so scared that he signed
00:42:33
the papers away saying they had fed him the information about the airplane and he wasn't
00:42:37
even in the park at the time of the killings. He later said the police at the park saw me every day
00:42:44
and I passed every test they gave me, but the months went by and they wanted a conviction.
00:42:48
so they beat me into signing it. I wasn't ever at the park when it happened. I was done wrong.
00:42:56
Except for when you raped that girl that time, Chester? Yeah, okay, but yeah, yes, however.
00:43:01
Okay, so he's brought to trial in 1961. They seek the death penalty. A year later, the jury finds him guilty
00:43:10
for one of the murders they only tried him for, which is weird. Maybe they thought they couldn't get him on all three?
00:43:17
Well, it's all the same evidence. you know what i mean and then they ended up like not bringing him up on charges for the rape too
00:43:23
so like this poor girl who was like you first thought i was fucking lying and now you're not
00:43:27
even gonna fucking try him for this shit wow poor fucking girl but but if he goes down for those
00:43:32
at least something on the other ones then he's in jail forever maybe that they're they had to
00:43:38
yeah okay but here's the problem with that so um he's sentenced to a term of life in prison
00:43:44
and then the jurors get dismissed and the and the reporters asked them if they knew that a life
00:43:49
sentence in illinois meant that wager would be eligible for parole in a few years and it turns
00:43:56
out that the mint the like the the normal life sentence for murder in illinois was 10 years
00:44:03
at the time what yeah i don't know if it still is it might still be no and jurors were like wait
00:44:10
what the fuck they were like we would have fucking sent him away wait that's like saying
00:44:14
everyone that's going to jail is 70 or something that doesn't make any sense like life a life
00:44:20
sentence is in the hardest quotes that have ever been quoted life sentence is such bullshit it
00:44:27
makes you feel and think a certain thing it's not fucking true seven fucking years it's like
00:44:32
you're eligible for parole immediately and you just keep fucking it's it's not a thing
00:44:38
a life sentence is not a thing a life sentence is not a thing you are full of shit i am not
00:44:45
life sentence is like is is a is a um wait can i just remind you that lawyers listen to this
00:44:53
okay all right i just would you want me to text guy right now text guy okay the the the idea of a
00:45:01
life sentence wait this is my favorite we're going we're going we're going outside the podcast it's
00:45:06
like um we're we're doing an outside line a life sentence i want to call a friend a lawyer i'm
00:45:12
doing it a life sentence means life sentence but in actuality in a majority of states it really just
00:45:18
is it's a sentence but it's not an actual um what's the word it's not going to give you 50
00:45:25
to 75 years like like it would take up a person's life exactly you're not actually going to be in
00:45:30
prison for your life all right both of you on your phones now i just want to fucking point out
00:45:36
I mean, no, I'm just texting. I'm texting the outside. Can I ask you a question?
00:45:41
We're just going to see if guys even available. Steven, what did you find? I found that it was much more complicated than I thought it was.
00:45:47
What does it say? I thought life imprisonment was life. No, the first thing was on a message board.
00:45:52
It just said, that's a really good question. What is life imprisonment in Illinois?
00:45:57
Oh, you didn't get a name? Yeah, I didn't get an answer. Read the whole thing right now.
00:46:02
It just says that. Okay. well we know that it changes state to state right yes so i also know this is illinois specific
00:46:09
right so so i mean the jurors were upset like do you know that life imprisonment um
00:46:14
a life sentence in illinois means that he'd be eligible for parole in a few years so that's the
00:46:20
thing you get life in prison and then you're fucking eligible for parole and and in this case
00:46:24
in illinois get parole after 10 years oh okay so that's right well i mean is that what you're
00:46:31
about to tell me he got parole no oh no no no no um blah blah so they said they would have given
00:46:40
the electric chair um oh shit blah blah blah so okay let's see the whole prosecution was based on
00:46:48
his confession which predated miranda warnings that are required today um wow i didn't realize
00:46:55
Miranda warnings were that recent yeah okay they're based on a guy named Miranda
00:46:59
like how John Wayne's real name is Priscilla is it no it isn't yeah or Miriam that's my middle
00:47:09
name it's a girl name what really it's Jewish um okay blah blah blah okay so then at some point
00:47:16
so he from the moment he was in prison is saying he's fucking innocent and um that some woman
00:47:26
had a deathbed confession that was never like corroborated corroborated corroborated
00:47:32
he's maintained his innocence he's 77 and he is the third longest held inmate in a state prison
00:47:39
having served a life sentence since 1961. He's been requesting parole since 1972.
00:47:45
It's 14 times that he's been up for parole. Wow. Yeah, and he's always saying, and if he said that he did it,
00:47:52
he probably would have been paroled because part of getting paroled is accepting responsibility for your crime.
00:47:57
Yeah. And he fucking refuses to do it. um dna tests were requested but so there was fucking hair found in the victim's fists and
00:48:08
the blood stains on the coat they were requested testing in 2004 but the the items had not been
00:48:14
properly preserved and thus no longer had held evidentiary value which seems like bullshit right
00:48:20
like you can fucking find it in there somewhere well but it sounds like what they're saying is
00:48:24
like instead of putting it in a ziploc bag they put it in one of those sandwich bags that folds
00:48:28
over at the top where it's like those don't work for sandwiches why are they going to work for
00:48:33
well i you know i look at this this case up on facebook to see if anyone was like talking about
00:48:38
it as their hometown murder and one guy whose name i fucking can't remember was like uh this is my
00:48:43
hometown murder and these items the jacket and the fucking branch that had been used to kill them
00:48:49
were brought to schools to show children no yeah and so and like the buckskin jacket comes back
00:48:55
Yeah, like the guy was like, the guy worked for the Innocence Project. And he was like, the reason these fucking things couldn't be tested is because one of the fucking investigators had like one of the pieces of evidence on his wall as a trophy.
00:49:07
And he's got brought like the guy was like, my mom remembers these being brought into school and you could like touch them and fucking learn about the murder.
00:49:15
Get as many little kid fingerprints on there as you possibly can. Pretty smart if that's a fucking tactic.
00:49:20
Yeah, because this was back when. Yeah. Yeah. No one knew. so it was so recent he well as less than a month ago he was up for parole again jesus how old is
00:49:32
this mother 77 he was up for parole again and he got denied um and one of the only living jurors
00:49:39
left nancy porter who's 92 said that she now she now finds the confession implausible because
00:49:45
she thought that wager who was unarmed who was only five foot eight could have been overpowered
00:49:51
by the three women, which I think is such bullshit. That's not how fucking crimes work.
00:49:54
Like you intimidate these three, you know, quiet women who go along with what you're telling
00:50:00
them to do and intimidate them. Like it doesn't matter how big you are. No, no, no, no.
00:50:05
That's like, that's like acting like every crime situation is the same. And if this person is a criminal, he could have lured them to a spot, cracked one of
00:50:14
them on the head, scared the shit out of the other two. Like who knows? He tied two of them together.
00:50:18
So you're overpowering two of them. The other woman's not going to leave. I mean it's not like they're gonna fucking ninja him
00:50:23
Like you know overpower him And that's the same thing with the Richard Speck case where he went into
00:50:29
They couldn't understand how he There was so many women in this room And he kept them all
00:50:35
In that room and then took them out one by one And murdered them And it's like because it's a psychological thing
00:50:40
He scared the shit out of them He scared them and he kept saying probably If you go along with what I'm trying to do
00:50:46
I'll let you go Especially back then when you had to be fucking polite to everyone you go along with it hoping you just want this situation to end yeah i mean that yeah
00:50:56
that's crazy yeah okay so silver lining um so the crime lab is now one of the finest in the state
00:51:07
because of the shoddy work from the starved rock case and someone said the state crime lab was less
00:51:13
equipped than a high school chemistry lab at the time and this is from steve stout who wrote a book
00:51:18
called the Star of Rock Murders. This crime is more important than this because it changed the system
00:51:24
of criminal investigation in Illinois. And then I went on Reddit and there was a guy who said,
00:51:29
there was a guy named, a woman named Bedpan 3. I know. I don't know what's going on with her.
00:51:36
You know she's a woman. Because she says my, well, maybe not. She says my husband and I fucking assumed.
00:51:41
Oh, right, right. I mean, not trying to. Come on, everybody. She says there's a huge,
00:51:46
bedpan three like there was a bedpan a bedpan one and a bedpan two already taken the other two no
00:51:53
this is the third best bedpan yeah this is a huge there's a huge number of people from this town in
00:51:58
my surrounding area that think he's a he was a scapegoat her ex's husband's grandfather was a
00:52:05
judge during the time though not during this trial and told me that there was no way in hell he did
00:52:09
the crime the bodies from what i remember reading had animal slash dog bites that were just left
00:52:14
unexplained theories include that a business owner who was from another nearby town who had a very
00:52:19
had very large well-trained dogs was a possibility because he inexplicably immigrated back to his home
00:52:25
country right after the murders leaving his entire family behind another theory is that the women's
00:52:30
wealthy chicago businessman husbands paid someone to have them killed in the park for various
00:52:34
nefarious reasons the only real consensus is that pretty much no one at the time or years later
00:52:39
believed it was wager uh i don't think it's the husband having them killed because the way they're
00:52:47
mutilated and left with their legs open yeah and if he if wager was a rapist and was the rapist
00:52:53
that raped that girl it would be more in line with a person who has uh is a rapist has issues
00:52:59
yeah and and basically is escalating i don't disagree with the fact that it sounds like
00:53:05
if if i didn't know any of the suspects i would think it was at least two people
00:53:10
yeah you know yeah but who knows you get you crack somebody over the head with a stick when
00:53:17
you're yeah and you're you're with your two friends yeah somebody gets cracked over the head
00:53:22
and then you're like and suddenly there's like some wild man that's like yeah sit down and i
00:53:28
have to tie you up and i mean no for sure it's over he probably did it but yeah he probably did
00:53:34
But it is interesting, that whole thing of like, you can't really base it on what the polygraph says.
00:53:40
And you can't. And you do have to be suspect. Now, what we know these days of how police interrogations used to go.
00:53:49
We've all seen LA Confidential. It a pity that DNA can figure this one out Yeah That amazing That such a good story Yeah Starved Rock Murders And also such a creepy name Starved Rock Murders Oh for sure Yeah Yeah
00:54:08
We're back. This is one of your stories that I think about all the time. Do you?
00:54:14
Yes. Because it was so kind of like the pictures in my mind of where they were when all this was happening.
00:54:20
It was so disturbing. Do you have updates? Yeah. And just three innocent women, you know, going on a little fucking girls trip together. Yeah. To nature. Like, yeah, which just I think this one, a lot of people, because the thing is, a lot of people don't think that the person who was convicted, Chester Wager, did it. And in fact, in 2020, after 60 years in prison, Chester Wager was granted parole and released from prison.
00:54:47
Wow. Yeah. So his lawyers continued to push for new proceedings because they want to prove his innocence of the murders because he's still claiming he was innocent and that the confession was coerced.
00:54:57
So then just this last May, May 2025, a mini trial was set and it introduced new evidence that was not available decades ago.
00:55:06
And some of that evidence is really fascinating is a woman came forward and said that her grandfather on his deathbed.
00:55:13
So we have a deathbed confession, another one, that he was in the mob and he had people killed before and that he said that he had one regret to his granddaughter.
00:55:24
He said that he knew that Chester Weger was innocent. And she claims that her grandfather went on to confide in her, that it was registered hits referring to the murders and asked her to help prove like on his deathbed, help prove this man's innocence.
00:55:41
which is wild it's not enough it didn't sway the court that much because it's just kind of
00:55:50
you know it kind of it's one one guy's story yeah and like why would he tell his teenage
00:55:54
daughter that and not other you know and not bring the police in or something like that so
00:55:59
that's just like a little interesting bit but who would have contracted to have those women
00:56:06
murdered. So the women's husbands were like wealthy businessmen. So to me, that's like a
00:56:11
bigger difference than if they were just like working class people. It's like you could see a
00:56:16
little bit of something nefarious going on, perhaps a message being sent. And the husbands
00:56:22
also like had connections in, you know, with politicians and stuff like that. So who knows?
00:56:29
It doesn't seem like a mafia hit type of murder though, you know? Yeah. Like they don't do it like
00:56:35
that they don't not bring a fucking weapon to the place where they're gonna kill people you know
00:56:40
yeah and i don't know it just feels like a bad movie that the mafia would have to go out into
00:56:45
like a park and right a state park like that i don't think so i don't either and like also they
00:56:52
probably would have noticed someone was following them why wouldn't they just kill one of the
00:56:55
husbands or you know it's just yeah right isn't that the thing with the mob they don't hit family
00:57:01
members yeah the it doesn't sound very mob like to kill three innocent wives of yeah they don't
00:57:08
do women children i really i thought we had a code of conduct here it's yeah it sounds like a brutal
00:57:13
kind of opportunity like crime of opportunity so that doesn't mean that this guy did it but
00:57:19
that's what it sounds like yeah okay it's hard it feels like deathbed confessions have more weight
00:57:25
than just normal regular life confessions which is like what if they have dementia what if they are
00:57:30
You know how much fucking morphine you're on when you're like on your deathbed? I cannot wait.
00:57:36
I can't wait. It's going to be so cool. They're going to be like, we can't give her enough.
00:57:41
She just asked for more. She keeps hitting that button. Bottomless pit. Oh, and there's also an HBO documentary about the Starved Rock murders called The Murders at Starved Rock that came out in, I think, 2021.
00:57:56
And it tells the whole story. I highly recommend it. All right. Well, this is one story that you were like on in the beginning when it first started.
00:58:04
Like this was like one of your like, I think that you like knew something was up.
00:58:09
And so this is you and you really talked about it already. But you are going to cover the story about Sherry Papini.
00:58:16
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There's no safe like SimpliSafe. Goodbye. So mine this week is a worrisome because it's the
01:00:50
case that I brought up, um, the week before last, and I didn't really know anything about it,
01:00:56
but I just wanted to cite it to you. And it was the Sherry Papini case. Yes. So it's an amazing thing because I went into such a like black hole on the internet today that I had
01:01:09
that thing happen where I was reading. It was light outside when I was reading. And the next
01:01:14
thing I knew it was pitch black in my house. Yeah. Cause you didn't get up to turn the lights on.
01:01:19
Exactly. And I hadn't really looked around so that when I looked up, it was like I was sitting in a pitch black room. It was kind of scary.
01:01:25
That's a really depressed. Honestly, it's like one of my depression triggers. Yes. Where you let just the light fade away. I jumped up and turned a lamp on. I have dogs. It wasn't too bad.
01:01:37
But if anyone had come like looked at the window and seen what you were looking like reading about, I'm not killing this girl.
01:01:43
Yeah, she's crazy. She's going to kill me. But here's the, because the reason that it, it was, you know, hours and hours of reading
01:01:52
and all these different websites is because this case goes, has so many levels and it
01:01:58
is crazy. Like when I first started talking to you about it, I just wanted to kind of be like, it's
01:02:03
that crazy case and it's got some twists and turns, but because I didn't really know specifics,
01:02:07
I kind of was like, just gave up. Well, I love that. I really don't know. I know that everyone's talking about it.
01:02:12
You mentioned it to me. I love that you're filling me in on every, like I have enough.
01:02:16
I just want to fucking hear this. I'm excited. All right. So I'll give you the, I'll give you the overview, but essentially what we're talking about here,
01:02:22
um, in one way, and this is what people are being so careful about it because yeah, there's
01:02:29
no proof that it's anything but a woman who has been victimized. And what I really like about that is that there are people who are being so fastidious as to
01:02:38
make sure that no one is accusing a victim of a crime of doing anything. Um, that being said,
01:02:47
there is insane amounts of evidence that something is wrong with this case. It's really suspicious.
01:02:53
It's very suspicious and it's not, um, it's just interesting. So I, we will talk about facts and
01:03:01
I'll just try to be very clear about what facts are as opposed to hearsay or anything and just
01:03:07
try to remind you every seven minutes that we're talking about a victim and that this isn't, you
01:03:13
know, in, in nowhere are we trying to like give an opinion about this? I just find this case to be
01:03:19
incredibly fascinating. So here's, here's what we know. Um, it's a woman named Sherry Papini,
01:03:26
who is 34 year old married mother of two who lives in Redding, California disappeared while
01:03:32
she was jogging on november 2nd and she reappeared three weeks later on the side of highway five
01:03:38
before dawn on thanksgiving day 150 miles away from where she was taken she was beaten she was
01:03:45
bloody and her hands were chained behind her back fuck yeah um she told police that she had been
01:03:53
kidnapped by two hispanic women in a van who tortured and starved her no okay go on um so
01:04:00
after she was found her husband keith gave interviews to both good morning america and 2020
01:04:06
wait okay already questions she said that the entirety of her captive her being captured was
01:04:13
by two hispanic women yes the entirety of it yep let's just go with the facts on um
01:04:21
on those interviews keith hit her husband said his wife's captors two latina women
01:04:27
kept their faces covered spoke spanish the majority of the time they beat her they broke
01:04:33
her nose they cut her hair um they starved her he claimed that sherry had lost 15 of her body weight
01:04:40
and that the captors quote-unquote branded her which led to speculation that the kidnapping was
01:04:47
part of a sex trafficking operation so uh after she was found a woman saw her again at 4 a.m on
01:04:55
the side of the road called 911. She gets taken to the hospital. Um, and her injuries include
01:05:02
bruises, a broken nose, burns and starvation. Um, but she was discharged several hours later.
01:05:11
She tells police that she was held captive. Um, and she describes the two Latinas as one being
01:05:18
old, one being young, one had curly hair, one had straight hair, one had thin eyebrows,
01:05:23
one had thick eyebrows um once she was released from the hospital she and her family left redding
01:05:31
the town that she lives in um for an undisclosed location to avoid media attention um and sherry
01:05:38
herself has not been seen by the media since her disappearance shot on thanksgiving yes since
01:05:44
like she's basically not been seen by the media at all so they've seen the pictures of her which
01:05:50
are from her wedding day, which are seven years prior. So she hasn given any interviews or hasn been seen No just her husband Wow So her husband went on a 2020 and good morning America And he told the whole story for her and which makes sense for a victim who
01:06:07
is traumatized and needs to be away from everything. It makes perfect sense. But did he need to do
01:06:13
that? Well, true. Um, like if, if that's the case and she doesn't want to be, it needs to be away
01:06:18
from it. Well, they, and that's what they told people is basically, um, she got out of the
01:06:24
hospital and then they left town and told everybody that they are doing it to avoid the media and then
01:06:31
he relatively soon after goes on both two you know major national television shows okay do you want
01:06:39
okay so i'm gonna hold my comments all right yeah you're like just accrue it and listen because
01:06:44
it's interesting so i can't remember um uh there are actually websites that normally dive right into
01:06:53
cases like this, the kind of Nancy Grace style cases who will not entertain anything except for
01:06:59
that Sherry Pepini is a victim and anybody saying anything different. That's the, like,
01:07:05
you can't talk about that, which is a stance. I mean, it's just like a way to do it. But of course,
01:07:11
Reddit is not like that because Reddit entertains anything at all times and you can say what you
01:07:17
want. Um, and so there's Reddit is the place I found a lot of this information. Um, the Shasta
01:07:26
County Sheriff actually recently came out to say he believes Sherry Papini story. Um, but he said
01:07:34
that in direct conflict with an earlier statement where the sheriff's office communications officer
01:07:39
said they weren't ruling anything out um so no one knows if he said that to to fix what somebody
01:07:48
that was just basically answering the phone and talking the huffington post said um or what
01:07:54
but there hasn't been much movement the the uh shasta county no the no but none of police up
01:08:01
there have been warning people they haven't put out in uh any kind of apb about these two latina
01:08:08
women there haven't been warnings to other women about being careful or this is what you need to
01:08:14
look for that says a lot um yeah okay uh so basically we'll go over it like this is the way
01:08:23
the they the timeline problems essentially okay um so the day that she went jogging like the day
01:08:33
that her husband Keith realized that she was missing he was at work and he came home from work
01:08:39
and she wasn't there and the kids weren't there and instead of calling her he said he because
01:08:45
sometimes I think the reason is I was confused by this but basically that sometimes reception is bad
01:08:51
up there which makes sense because it's like way up north of Sacramento yeah um that he pinged her
01:08:57
phone instead with find my iPhone. Okay. Um, so then he realizes where the phone is and it's a
01:09:05
mile away from their house where kind of near where their mailbox is, which is if you've grown
01:09:09
up in the country, it's that thing where like your house is way up here on some weird long dusty road
01:09:14
and your mailboxes are in a long line with a bunch of other people's mailboxes down the road.
01:09:19
Like you, you go to your mailbox when you're driving up your driveway. Exactly. Right. A mile
01:09:23
seems far to me but i don't know okay and also this is like i was looking at a map of redding
01:09:29
and there's there's nothing i mean yeah also they're like the group that neighborhoods
01:09:34
like put mailboxes together it has nothing to do with where your house is kind of right exactly
01:09:38
yeah because neighbor neighborhoods don't exist there it's like all these houses just kind of
01:09:43
like they're probably ranch style houses spread out fuck that man so i want neighbors to hear me
01:09:49
scary at night. Um, so he says he called his mother and he, um, I can't remember, but basically
01:10:01
it's just this weird thing of why wouldn't you just call her phone? Yeah. And like, okay. So,
01:10:07
um, he basically, he pings her phone, finds it, uh, and it's at the corner of sunrise drive and
01:10:15
old Oregon trail. And when he gets there, he immediately takes a picture of it. It's sitting,
01:10:21
um, her phone, of her phone. Uh, it's sitting, it's sitting with, you're just going to keep
01:10:27
saying that. No, no, no, you can't, but I'm just saying there's a lot of that. Um, there's
01:10:32
headphones sitting on top of the phone on top of them. Very neatly. It says, and he takes a picture
01:10:38
of it. So the police, um, said that it looked staged. They commented on that early that said
01:10:44
it looked staged but he didn't touch the phone he like whatever and a lot of people on these
01:10:50
threads were talking about if your significant other was missing in a way that you really felt
01:10:55
was real you would grab that phone and start looking at what are the last calls texts anything
01:11:00
all right um so then he files a missing persons report and in all in every way he talks about her
01:11:08
instead of saying kidnapped or missing, he keeps using the word taken Liam Neeson style.
01:11:16
Okay. So then they put up five days after she goes missing, they put up sherrypipini.com and
01:11:22
it's a website. Five days. I'm sorry. Go ahead. It's just a website about the whole case. Please
01:11:29
help us find her. She's missing with her picture and everything else, all the information, what
01:11:33
she's wearing and the whole thing. And 10 days after that, this letter goes up on that website
01:11:38
And it's from an anonymous donor. And it says that it says like, I'm an anonymous donor. I'm offering an undisclosed reward for Sherry's immediate release. My middleman is Cameron Gamble, who's a international negotiator who also happens to live in Reading.
01:12:00
the fuck right so this is i think this is the part now separate from people saying please protect a
01:12:07
victim who has been victimized yeah absolutely but this is the part where everyone's like this
01:12:11
thing stinks to high heaven because um when you go on there's a really great um article that was
01:12:18
on the daily beast called um like things you should know about the shady private investigator
01:12:24
involved in the sherry papini case yeah and it's amazing because it's all about him and how like
01:12:30
it's really there's lots of great information there's videos that he has on his website
01:12:35
cameron gamble.com is he a creep um he's a guy that's trying like he has uh his organization
01:12:44
it's supposedly a non-profit profit organization called project taken and it's about dude it's
01:12:51
about warning women uh or like telling women what to do in case someone tries to kidnap them what
01:12:57
the fuck so all of these things are like just they just are very suspect it's just all very
01:13:04
a little bit like a movie and a little bit too i don't think so too coincidental very coincidental
01:13:11
and also in the best case scenario what this person did in this anonymous donor that put this
01:13:18
letter up on their website was basically trying to circumvent law enforcement and say if you have
01:13:25
her i will give you money just bring her back is it no questions asked exactly oh no they don't use
01:13:30
that phrase right but it's basically saying we don't have to deal with the police like if you
01:13:34
you can have the money just bring her back which pisses the police off so much because if that's
01:13:39
actually the case then other women are in danger and you have not yeah you can't do it that way
01:13:44
you've just eliminated all the suspects because you're being a fucking asshole well it just
01:13:48
it doesn't work that way it doesn't and it's like somebody making up a new way to do it and then
01:13:53
going like i'm anonymous i'm anonymous the amount of money is anonymous please use my middleman
01:13:59
yeah none of those things i think are really line up and then it goes against law enforcement
01:14:05
okay so after she's found and the family asks for privacy several family members grant a daily
01:14:12
mail interview which is the british newspaper i believe and someone also sells a picture of her
01:14:18
kids on Thanksgiving to the Daily Mail. And then of course her husband does both interviews. Do
01:14:25
they know who sold it? Or is it like anonymous? They say family members. There's no one specifically
01:14:29
named. In his 2020 interview, her husband Keith says her signature long blonde hair had been
01:14:38
chopped off. But she was described as having long hair by the 911 caller. And a lot of people bring
01:14:47
up like who has signature long blonde signature as to as compared to what like dude it's not she's
01:14:55
not like you know gwyneth paltrow or whatever it's she's a mom and even if it is it's like why
01:15:02
didn't the caller describe her as having that and he said the exact this guy seems to pick up phrases
01:15:08
that sound um coerced or not coerced uh like rehearsed rehearsed thank you but also just
01:15:16
weird like it's that thing where people get a weird feeling and that's the thing that like i
01:15:20
what we're now talking about that are in direct contention with each other is the weird feeling
01:15:26
you have when you think someone's lying versus a victim trying to tell their story and i'm not
01:15:31
everything i've heard doesn't it's it makes the husband sound suspicious not her right she it
01:15:38
sounds like this fucking happened to her well yeah i don't think like nothing makes me think
01:15:43
that this that she isn't actually a legitimate victim so basically when she he gives these
01:15:50
interviews there's experts that are uh experts in like whatever reaction or what whatever facial
01:15:57
facial reaction recognition or whatever that say his crying is completely fake like he does these
01:16:02
things where he bursts out into tears but he he um makes the noises and his eyes get a little bit
01:16:09
read, but there's no actual streaming tears. That, that, that whole fucking, uh, study is
01:16:14
fascinating to me. I love that shit. Yeah. Like micro expressions and stuff like that. Like the
01:16:20
way they know people are lying. Amazing. It's pretty interesting. But I also think that that's
01:16:24
interesting because that happens on TV shows a lot where people are supposed to be crying like
01:16:28
in acting, but it's really hard thing to do to fake cry. It's really hard, even if you mean it
01:16:34
and want to do it. So like you can, but we're all used to it where it's like people like,
01:16:38
I just really you know you make the noise you can do the voice and everything but to get the stuff
01:16:43
to come out of your eyes is really hard to do yeah but you can still see it like I have a really hard
01:16:48
time crying and there's moments where I'm like it's okay to do this thing but you you're trying
01:16:53
so hard not to but you can hear it in the voice well the key the key of real crying I learned this
01:16:59
in an acting class one time tell me is trying not to cry because that's the real thing people do
01:17:04
No one ever wants to really cry So sitting And I don't know this man And who knows what's really happening
01:17:12
None of us know, again, I'm just going to keep saying it None of us know what's really happening
01:17:15
But most of the time If you're being interviewed and you're talking about Something that happened to a person
01:17:21
And also he'd already gotten his wife back home So she hadn't died And yes, she had been a victim
01:17:28
Of something terrible But he was acting like he was sobbing But he wasn't actually sobbing
01:17:33
which is just not a natural thing for people to, especially a man, I'm sorry to say,
01:17:39
they have less permission to have emotions. You do a thing where you're like, sorry, give me one second.
01:17:42
And you rein it back in and then you continue to talk. And it's like, just give me a moment.
01:17:46
And you think that they're going to cut it out or something. We've all seen all of these shows a million times.
01:17:52
All of these shows. You know what it it they talk and then their lip moves in a weird way And then the eyes go and the water is there And their voice breaks Their voice breaks They embarrassed about it And it a very hard thing to fake They trying to get a point across and they can
01:18:06
And guess what? Again, all of this theory there. Okay. So in his interview for 2020, he calls people who would doubt Sherry's story subhuman.
01:18:21
Okay. He doesn't call her tackers anything. What? Yeah. That's amazing. But it's, um, he also said when he was on good morning of America,
01:18:32
he said, I understand people want the story pictures proof that this was not some sort of
01:18:37
hoax plan to get money or fabricate a race war. I do not see a purpose in addressing each
01:18:42
preposterous lie. Yes. Brought up race war. He initially he did. No, no, no. This is him. And
01:18:49
that's the thing that everybody was saying of just like of all those other things. Yes, yes,
01:18:54
yes we get it you don't have to address every lie you're right what wait why are we talking about a
01:18:59
race war what the fuck on good morning fucking america they should have vetted the shit out of
01:19:05
him so okay now we're going back to this idea which is a real fucking thing that happens in
01:19:12
this country sex trafficking it's horrifying it really happens totally it's still kind of mysterious
01:19:18
nobody really knows what it looks like what it means it's very like who nobody knows who it
01:19:24
happens to and it happens to people that don't that it's not why it's not visible yeah it's not
01:19:31
yeah so we're all like it never happens because it happens to people who are it happens to begin
01:19:35
with yes that's right runaway kids yeah but the thing that it that's true is it usually happens
01:19:41
to younger women this woman is 30 sorry i said it well people people who won't miss the victims or
01:19:49
won't be believed when they said that there's a victim that's right it's a runaway you know
01:19:55
people who are um at risk at risk yeah and under something something so but the other thing is um
01:20:05
she she one of her injuries that was reported is that she was burned um as if she it liked you
01:20:14
know because as if she was branded for this sex trafficking but real sex trafficking is the
01:20:21
branding is just a word that they use for it they tattoo them right they don't brand them like cattle
01:20:27
because they want them to they want to sell these women they don't want to ruin their their okay
01:20:35
No, that's exactly right. You know what I mean? Well, A, they don't want to ruin their bodies.
01:20:38
They don't want to cut their long, beautiful blonde hair. That's a fucking selling point.
01:20:42
Exactly. They don't want to beat them up and break their nose. Those are all selling points.
01:20:46
Right. But also, the idea that someone wouldn't actually know the insider information that tattoos are how you brand, not with a brand.
01:20:55
Like quote branding. It's like branding as a quote. Yes. What the fuck? So, so, so, we're just adding up polls.
01:21:02
were just mentioning things or the reason people are suspicious got it uh so the other now we turn
01:21:10
to her social media okay oh my god um she had a wedding blog on which she claimed that she had
01:21:19
never lived with a man but she actually had been married and was divorced in 2007 shit um so people
01:21:27
are citing this as just kind of times before this isn't she's been described as a super mom as the
01:21:33
best person in the world as sweet you know all-american there's this picture that's been
01:21:38
painted of her by him on the in these interviews and so people are just trying to cite other things
01:21:44
that maybe would contradict that inconsistencies exactly and um one of them is that that this very
01:21:52
blatant lie that she was basically trying to make it seem like she'd never been married before and
01:21:56
it's like well why lie it's not that that's a blight on your fucking personality that makes it
01:22:00
that you should be kidnapped it's it's well it's okay it's not the 1800s so you don't but but this
01:22:06
was long before okay um so it's kind of like saying it's just kind of trying to show a thing
01:22:13
that maybe this is a person who doesn't have a problem throwing up a lie yeah oh but it could
01:22:18
have been put up her or him this is her okay this was her wedding blog okay but then i will
01:22:25
contradict that just in fairness to say, Redding is a small town and there could be people that
01:22:31
don't like her and are trying to defame her because she is in this spotlight and she is
01:22:37
in a bad place. And you know what? I want to say, like, I was engaged before Vince and I got married.
01:22:42
And at this point in my life, I'm like, he was really just a boyfriend. Like it was, you know,
01:22:47
like you get married and you're like, this was stupid. We were young. It's like, it wasn't a
01:22:50
real marriage. And you say it wasn't because it doesn't fucking matter. Sure. Does that make sense?
01:22:54
totally yeah or you just you get to write whatever you want on your wedding blog there's plenty of
01:22:59
ways to argue the other way for sure now there was a blog post written under her maiden name which is
01:23:06
sherry graph graph um on a skinhead website in 2007 and it was a story about her getting jumped
01:23:19
by three latino men and five latina women and her fighting all of them off and the whole thing was
01:23:28
kind of about why can't she be proud of being white oh no so this is where now here's the thing
01:23:35
her father says that someone else wrote it and is in it being an imposter and trying to make her
01:23:43
look bad but i feel like the second you start saying the word skinheads and that is part of
01:23:50
now this also is in this like northern central california this is this is the area where stuff like this takes place i mean this is there is there probably is a big there a huge latina community there it actually reading apparently
01:24:09
is like 97 white holy shit so now i read that though i mean that might not be exactly right
01:24:17
because i read that on in all of these posts that i was reading that might not be exact yeah there's
01:24:22
definitely a big Latina community because it's a, most of these are farming communities. And
01:24:27
I don't, I'm just saying what I'm reading, but this now on Reddit, there are all these people
01:24:34
who claim to be from Reading and who went to high school with her. Oh my God. So basically I won't get into the, now I realize I probably shouldn't get into the
01:24:46
details of these stories because this is straight up slander. This is gossip. There's no way to
01:24:50
prove that people went to high school with her. There's no way to prove that she wrote that post.
01:24:55
Actually, there's a, I don't know if there's any way to prove that she wrote that post. They can
01:25:00
prove that someone with that name wrote that post at that time, but they can't prove it was her
01:25:05
fingers on the keys. Right. Exactly. All right. But, but however, it, it, it ties these two stories
01:25:13
together. Yes. It just is a yes, exactly. Okay. This, this thing with the people that talk about
01:25:19
her. Nobody is, is being, um, malicious. Most of the people say this, this doesn't seem right.
01:25:26
And here's what I know about this person, but I hope we find out the truth. Nobody is on there
01:25:32
like in any way, but I mean, but also that's a good way to try to seem trustworthy is to not be
01:25:38
malicious. But most of the people said that in high school, she needed to be the center of
01:25:43
attention and she would sometimes pretend to have heart problems if other people were getting too
01:25:50
much attention and so one of the stories was they were camping and a girl had um a hypothermia she
01:25:58
was stayed in the lake too long and had hypothermia and they as they were rushing her to the hospital
01:26:02
all of a sudden sherry had heart palpitations and she now she had a problem too it was like
01:26:08
there's a couple stories like that where it's like kind of comes out of the blue in a very
01:26:13
convenient way. Okay. Again, unproven. Yeah. Who knows who these people are that are writing this?
01:26:19
It leads up to one that is a fact and one that is, I, that I, I'm kind of freaked out by.
01:26:26
Tell me, tell me, tell me, tell me. Um, it's the disappearance of a girl named Tara Smith
01:26:32
on October 22nd, 1998. Then 16 year old Tara Smith, a high school student in Redding, California,
01:26:40
left home to go jogging only never to be seen never to be seen again Tara's father believes
01:26:46
that a local man who was Tara's romantic interest may have been responsible for her disappearance
01:26:51
he said on the night of her disappearance she had plans to meet with the then 29 year old
01:26:56
martial arts instructor Troy Zink oh no to end their relationship he was married
01:27:02
and had a child, if not two children. And he had also served a year in jail for rape.
01:27:11
Oh my God, please. Her father found an unmailed letter in her room after she disappeared that prompted his theories about Zink.
01:27:21
In the letter, she tells him she knows she'd made a huge mistake. She never should have gotten involved with him.
01:27:27
But this letter was never delivered. and rather than give him the letter, we believe she wanted to confront him in person
01:27:35
to break it off. Zink told authorities that Tara had asked to meet him near her home
01:27:41
and then when they met, demanded $2,000 from him. He refused and she got angry and then she asked him to drop her off
01:27:50
at the corner of Old Alturas Road and Old Oregon Trail. No. Eight miles from where Sherry Pepini had been taken.
01:27:58
That's a long mile. That's a lot of miles. he said he then went to Hang Glider Hill to pray.
01:28:07
And he returned home at 1130 p.m. Tara's father went to his house after Tara didn't return.
01:28:15
Tara, not Tara. And Tara's father said, Zink is an avid four-wheeler guy. He knows the back roads.
01:28:22
He had five and a half hours to get rid of the evidence. He's been smart enough to keep his mouth shut.
01:28:29
The police have not been able to move ahead with the case. It's heartbreaking and very frustrating.
01:28:36
The guy still lives in Reading. Almost 20 years have passed, and he has gotten more comfortable, changed his name, and thinks people have forgotten.
01:28:43
But we haven't forgotten. And while he was missing, while Sherry was missing, her husband Keith asked Tara Smith's father, Terry, for advice.
01:28:57
Keith came to me and we spoke for about an hour the father of the missing girl told the magazine
01:29:02
I just told him to stay strong for kids and not assume law enforcement has the answers and to push
01:29:08
them it was obvious Keith was torn up and I believe he was confident he'd get his wife back
01:29:14
Tara Smith was a schoolmate of Sherry Papini wait they went to school together they went to high
01:29:20
school together the two girls yep the girl that disappeared went to high school with Sherry Papini
01:29:25
fuck tell me more that's it that's it it's basically it's basically that there's there's
01:29:35
no conclusion to be drawn from it except for that it's an exact parallel of the same story
01:29:39
so we don't know where they are okay but one could argue that i i don't have any feelings against or for sherry i just think that the husband
01:29:54
sounds suspicious as fuck I not I don it sounds like she was a fucking victim but whether it of the crime that she that is claimed that she went through or
01:30:09
this fucking husband who sounds like a piece of work, I don't know. I think that this is one of those kinds of stories that anything could be possible.
01:30:18
Like the thing everyone online keeps saying is it's a gone, a total gone girl situation.
01:30:22
And in that, I would say it's that you just don't, we just don't know. But the thing is, to me, what's interesting is law enforcement doesn't seem to be moving overtly forward with any kind of like, with anything. Maybe they are and they're just not being like super vocal about it.
01:30:45
The fact that they haven't warned the community to be on the lookout or to be careful or that this thing is happening speaks volumes to me.
01:30:53
Yeah. And, okay, so, what was I going to say? Yeah, I don't know. The whole thing is just, like, creepy.
01:31:01
It's super creepy. And there's a lot. The thing that's interesting is there's a lot of stuff cropping up.
01:31:06
Like, when I lived in Petaluma, we would hear gossip all the time about Polyclass's family.
01:31:15
right and because it was there was always someone that knew an insider that had something to tell
01:31:20
you where it's like oh here's the gossip here's the insider information and that it's like urban
01:31:25
legends where that kind of stuff people like to talk about it when especially when you don't know
01:31:29
what the answer is yeah theorizing about this and trying to put it together um is very satisfying
01:31:35
here's my thing okay here's the major thing to me what the thing that sounds more likely is not
01:31:42
two hispanic women kidnapping a mother and wife off the fucking street and solely
01:31:52
they're just not doing that what's the the other well and because also the husband said that
01:31:58
she said um they had they had their faces covered right so how would you know they're hispanic or
01:32:03
have eyebrows that are a certain way well i mean we don't know how they were covered but
01:32:07
why would you walk up to two people in a car with their faces covered the hispanic women it just
01:32:13
sounds it's one of those things where it's it just sounds it's so insulting to hispanic women and i
01:32:18
fucking don't see it and then there's this man it sounds so much more likely that the husband who
01:32:25
is trying to get a lot of fucking attention and saying really fucking incriminating weird shit
01:32:30
and hiring people who skirt around law enforcement and has something to do with this
01:32:38
is so much more likely than two fucking Hispanic women who have no fucking reason to kidnap this woman
01:32:43
and didn't, there's no ransom, they let her go. There's no point. That's why everybody feels like it stinks,
01:32:51
that there's no point to it. It's not like the idea that they don't, she's not saying where she was in the meantime.
01:32:57
There are no details about there's absolutely no detail that she has given the police about where she was, what happened, what like they were saying.
01:33:06
Somebody was saying, what state was she in? Like, were her nails cut? Yeah. You know, what did her clothes look like?
01:33:12
Were they the same clothes that she left in? What almost sounds more likely to me is that these things happened to this woman, these exact things she's saying.
01:33:21
It just was someone else. And they scared her into saying that it was two Hispanic women.
01:33:26
I disagree because the list of injuries that she gives, no hospital would let you leave two hours after you arrive.
01:33:36
It doesn't make sense because if you have burns, that means you might have infection.
01:33:41
If you've been starved, that means you are dehydrated. So they have to rehydrate you.
01:33:48
They need to put antibiotics into you. And also you're in shock. You've just had this terrible thing happen to you.
01:33:53
They're going to do a rape kit, which takes hours and hours. right i mean unless there's no word about that whatsoever there's absolutely no word about that
01:34:00
but they're not going to it's it doesn't make sense that a hot no hospital would let somebody
01:34:06
just walk out like look i'm fine after the list of like how badly she was beaten and injured the
01:34:13
the victim to me in this and i the thing i want to protect is that is the two hispanic women
01:34:19
narrative i just don't think that's fucking fair to i especially with the skinhead tie it pisses
01:34:25
me off that she would that that would be the narrative and then I'll just remind that the
01:34:30
skinhead tie could be some weird red herring just just to say it who knows what that is I mean anyone
01:34:37
can write her name you know who knows what that was fuck man it's it's such a but as you dig into
01:34:43
the story you know it goes into like um when I was in that stuff where it's like oh people that went
01:34:50
to high school with her said she was this said she was yeah but then I'm like this is gossip this is
01:34:54
all gossip this is shitty gossip what would people say about me if you know if oh my god me in the
01:34:59
same situation the shit that people say about us would be it would be upsetting but to come back
01:35:05
around to the parallel story of a girl she went to high school with that actually did disappear
01:35:10
and this is the other thing i will read that someone um someone did say on reddit that i
01:35:16
actually really liked um someone said i actually work with human trafficking victims now and it
01:35:24
really pisses me off that the whole world is freaking out over this one woman yet there are
01:35:29
thousands of girls that go missing and are sold into sex trafficking every year right here in the
01:35:34
u.s and they aren't even in the news i really really hope that they figure all this out and
01:35:40
the truth comes out whatever it is fuck man a fucking man i mean yeah shit if it if it brings
01:35:50
light to the fact that sex trafficking actually does happen. That'll be great. But I feel like there's a lot of people who are like armchair
01:35:59
disabilities. detectives like you and me who see who smell a rat yeah and go there's more to this story
01:36:06
and they're not talking yeah and and also oh the last thing is they started to go fund me
01:36:13
um somebody else started to go fund me and in seven days they made forty thousand dollars for
01:36:19
the family uh-huh something fucking smells fishy i mean and it's in the it's in his sister's name
01:36:28
this man this this dude like i'm not even looking at her this fucking dude well this dude is saying
01:36:36
enough himself to be incriminated nothing to do with her she she might have she might have been
01:36:44
a fucking pawn in his game and or vice versa or a third choice that we don't know it's just so
01:36:52
fascinating because when these things get presented on the news i think back to like
01:36:56
that i saw this just briefly in passing yeah and it was her blonde hair and big smile and this
01:37:04
mother is missing and everybody's talking about it across the nation and then it basically is like
01:37:12
okay um here's the story and then the end and everyone's like well wait a second yeah we need
01:37:18
to make sure that we fucking update as as much as we get as as soon as we get information about
01:37:24
this we need to update it because this is one of the things that like you never hear about again
01:37:26
and it's like oh well they all went to fucking prison um also the international um kidnapping
01:37:33
expert is that part in the middle oh my god someone said this on reddit but it's like this is
01:37:39
this is basically a coen brothers movie it's like these characters i mean it doesn't it's like
01:37:45
somebody coming in and being like i i am on behalf of an anonymous donor right i am here to say you
01:37:52
can come to me and you don't have to go to the cops which the cops up there must have lost their
01:37:56
fucking shit yeah i i have a degree in international kidnapping things i am uh my major was liam
01:38:05
neesening karen that's our new fucking title for listen if anyone gets kidnapped and you need
01:38:12
someone to fucking intervene on your behalf don't go to him no no come right here karen and george
01:38:17
my favorite murder like we are on this with fucking wild speculation personal experiences
01:38:22
there's going to be a lot of we're mad at you for saying this that and the other thing but i
01:38:28
did not misspeak this story i think we've cleared it at every level but this story is fascinating
01:38:35
you can't deny amazing there's something else going on it's fascinating motherfuckers everyone's
01:38:42
a mother what is fucking wrong with people just like live your fucking life i'm sorry i'm really
01:38:48
angry it's just like can we not have a fucking moment like not being total pieces of shit can't
01:38:57
it just be christmas can it be fucking seize candy and fucking true crime fucking playing cards and
01:39:04
Elvis and fucking Mimi like can we please oh I hate it the answer that you get served up every week is no
01:39:12
no answer is nine no moments speaking of moments anything that happened to you this week
01:39:20
oh shit I always forget really think it through I think every week it going to be nephew for me because we have our family I know right
01:39:32
But I have a specific one. We had our family Hanukkah party last night and my nephew who's one
01:39:37
and my other nephew who's six, we like, I like made them all play a game to get, we all played
01:39:44
a game and it was like, cause I didn't want my six year old nephew to feel left out. And I want
01:39:49
my one-year-old nephew to like have memories of my six-year-old nephew and like so I fucking
01:39:54
auntie fucking Georgia like totally killed it what game just scared the baby did the baby like
01:40:02
it we loved scare the baby yeah of course it was great it was great that's good yeah it was just
01:40:07
like maybe made my heart feel good I had kind of a magical moment which was I was turning to get
01:40:14
onto the one-on-one freeway and as i passed the mobile gas station um which is right on
01:40:23
right there yeah i think it is um there were three men doing their nightly um what is it
01:40:38
oh there were there were three men facing east oh my god and doing their nightly islamic
01:40:47
prayers that's gorgeous and it was they were doing it because they it was just basically the
01:40:53
furthest corner away from the gas pumps that they could be and you have to be at a certain time
01:40:58
you have to stop wherever you are and do the prayers right and and it was it was the furthest
01:41:03
corner and it was like kind of around the corner so it wasn't like people could see them or whatever
01:41:07
but they were also doing it in front of the mobile symbol. So it was lit up for me as I turned to look at it.
01:41:15
It was lit up in front of that symbol, like a movie. It was one of the coolest things I've ever seen.
01:41:21
What a beautiful moment to remind you that there's more than just this traffic and driving.
01:41:27
And at that moment, someone is having a spiritual connection with the universe that has nothing to do with your surroundings and their surroundings.
01:41:35
they're taking some time out to do that and also that this is fucking america yeah that that's what
01:41:41
you're supposed to be able to see in america yep that that's what you should want to see
01:41:46
and that's a great thing to see and thank god we live in a city los angeles that doesn't
01:41:51
interfere with that yeah that that supports that and and is open is good with that it's fine with
01:41:59
that yeah yeah i felt very grateful that's fucking gorgeous that's a cool one i played scare the baby
01:42:06
meanwhile i'm scaring the shit out of my one-year-old um uh if you go to itunes and you can you can um rate review and subscribe us and it you know
01:42:21
it's great it helps us but fuck man thank you guys thank you guys itunes uh my fave murder
01:42:27
Instagram my favorite I don't know just thank you thank you thank you so much thanks to Stephen Ray Morris
01:42:31
of the Perkast for fucking being your audio engineer and good gifts you guys are amazing thank you for listening Elvis
01:42:37
you wanna wait you wanna oh wait Merry Christmas and happy holidays happy holidays Elvis
01:42:43
you want a cookie want a cookie alright stay sexy don get murdered bye bye okay we back I wonder if there are any updates Karen It nothing but updates This has been a breaking story for 15 years It crazy
01:43:03
And I think it is really one of the last, I think it's the second to last white woman panic story.
01:43:11
I mean, I shouldn't say last, it's always the vibe. But that thing, the way it broke on the cover of People magazine when nothing was corroborated,
01:43:18
corroborated nothing was factual and they just ran with this disappearance story yeah that turned
01:43:25
out to be this fake i just think it was kind of like the it feels like one of the last gasps of
01:43:31
that entire god forbid a blonde anything bad happened to a blonde right totally so if you
01:43:38
didn't know spoiler alert the whole sherry papini thing was fake it took them about four years to
01:43:44
crack this case after the disappearance and the return. And what they did was they found a DNA
01:43:50
match, which basically made everything unravel. They found DNA on Sherry and they then matched it
01:43:57
to her ex-boyfriend, James Reyes, who basically she had faked this entire thing for so she could
01:44:03
run off and be with her ex-boyfriend in Costa Mesa. Let me tell you guys about Costa Mesa.
01:44:08
it's like it's it's cool it used to be cool it's not one of the ones that you would like run away
01:44:14
for it's not a city you would run away from your life for i'll tell you right now and they keep in
01:44:19
the documentary that they show the outside of the apartment and it's like you ran away for no yeah
01:44:24
okay it's that kind of thing where like when facebook first came back and everyone started
01:44:29
talking to people from high school and it all got real kind of fraught you know what i mean it has
01:44:33
that vibe of like sharia was way up in redding yeah and she was a mother and a wife and maybe
01:44:39
not that much was going on and then this guy rolls back into town and she's like i'm giving it all up
01:44:45
for costa mesa it's the thing of like be careful what you wish for sort of you know and also be
01:44:50
careful who you accuse because of course the first thing she tells cops is it was two latina women
01:44:56
one long hair one short hair one old one young all that shit that sounds so fake so anyway sherry
01:45:03
was charged with making false statements to a federal law enforcement officer and engaging in
01:45:08
mail fraud because she got thirty thousand dollars from the california victims compensation board so
01:45:15
she was really in that storyline for a little while yeah she was arrested for all of this and
01:45:22
And in September of 2022, she was sentenced to 18 months in prison for all of that.
01:45:27
And she had to pay the $300,000 in restitution for the government funds that they expended looking for her.
01:45:38
Shit, man. And then in April of 2022, her husband Keith filed for divorce and got full custody of their son and daughter.
01:45:46
She has visitation rights. She got out of prison in August of 2023. she's I guess on parole till 2026 and her husband Keith is in a Hulu docuseries called Perfect Wife
01:45:59
the mysterious disappearance of Sherry Pepini where Keith gets to tell his side of the story
01:46:03
oh we watched it did you yeah yeah it was what'd you think it was yeah there it was crazy it was
01:46:10
we were both very Vince and I were very much like there was a lot of what the fucks being said
01:46:16
what the fuck You know like but why would your brain go to that conclusion then Or why would you then do this next step It like just boggles the mind in a way of like for people who aren this way
01:46:29
Did they talk about the thing where she went to high school with a girl who disappeared?
01:46:32
And there was like a lot of parallels to her story and the girl that actually disappeared?
01:46:38
They do. Yes, they told I forgot about yes, they totally talk about that, which is so weird.
01:46:42
evil. It's just kind of gross. Yeah. So, but again, kind of that thing where it's like,
01:46:48
it just is the perfect anxiety insider where it's like, you're doing this on a national stage.
01:46:54
You thought you were just doing a thing to get out of having an affair. Yeah. No. All right. Well, we did it. We've done it. And again, once again,
01:47:04
I mean, we can only say so much about our own episode and it's other people's opinion that
01:47:07
really matters. We just did it. True. We've done it twice now. I mean, we just keep doing it. It's
01:47:12
insane. So if we want to rename this one, which we don't, because an Albert Fish production is
01:47:20
the best name of all time, but if we did. We could possibly name it Day 403, which is
01:47:26
Stephen's mustache's age. Also, the How Dare You podcast, which was just something I said to Stephen
01:47:34
And I did say to Steven all the time. I love that. How dare you podcast is great.
01:47:38
Defiance disorder, which you have. And then I think me saying I do too means I don't.
01:47:43
I think if I actually had it, I would have said to you, I don't. You know what I mean?
01:47:48
Because I'd be defying you. But I didn't. Absolutely. I went along with it. Yeah.
01:47:54
Totally. All right. Well, thank you guys so much for listening. And stay sexy. And don't get murdered.
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summer favorites. Timeless jewelry made to move with you through every moment. Shop in-store or online now through July 5th.
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Terms and conditions apply. See pandora.net for more details. Goodbye.