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00:01:26
Goodbye. Hello. And welcome. To My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstark. That's Karen Kilgariff.
00:01:49
Can I tell you something sad? Yeah. That I don't know what to do with? There was a dead crow in my pool this morning.
00:01:54
No. Is that a bad omen for me or for the crow? Well, it's definitely for the crow.
00:01:59
And are all the other crows in the neighborhood going to think that we killed their friend?
00:02:04
No, they don't think you're responsible for the pool, I bet. But what if they're flying over when I was trying to get them out and it looked like I was drowning?
00:02:11
You're afraid the crows are coming for you? Yeah. Like after everything I've done for those crows.
00:02:16
I mean, they got to have some good faith in your participation. But what did you do with the crow's body?
00:02:23
I left it for Vince to deal with. Good. Because then he's going to look it up to be like, what do crows want you to do in this situation?
00:02:31
Yeah. Right. I don't know. Have a bonfire. But I don't know. It was so disturbing.
00:02:36
And also, like, how did it die? Why? Is there something more we should worry about?
00:02:42
I'm not going in that pool ever again. So we should probably move. Sure. I think you should make a bunch of decisions like that based on this.
00:02:50
Don't look anything up. Don't. It was so sad. Yeah, that's awful. I was like hoping.
00:02:55
It was just, yeah. Yeah, that's rough. Also, it's like, I think the connection of like birds and omens and stuff is.
00:03:02
And a crow of all fucking things. Like, and then your favorite. So it's almost like.
00:03:08
Right. That's very sad. Which is worse than that or when I found the dug up cremains of a pet in my front yard.
00:03:15
I think that this crow is worse because the crow is like, the cremains were like a bag of something.
00:03:20
And then you're just like, what? But. Right. I don't know. Viewers, will you vote at home?
00:03:25
Which is worse? Which is worse than Georgia's? Why not a boob? And then describe how it's worse for Georgia and what you think is going to be happening to her.
00:03:35
Like a witch knocks at your door. Did you drown my crow? Oh, God. I have had birds flying to the house and I always was taught or heard that birds in the house are very bad luck.
00:03:46
Oh, but moths are good. Foretell. Moths are good. But I mean, but here's the thing.
00:03:50
It's like the way my house is, there's windows at the back and front and birds think it's a through way.
00:03:56
So I've had so many birds in my house that at this point, I'm just like, I can't.
00:03:59
It's not proving out to be a real thing. OK, that's good to know. Yeah. But it's like, be careful about birds.
00:04:06
Be careful about. Yeah. Be kind to birds. Be kind to birds. Can you throw out a couple sparkly things for them to be happy about?
00:04:13
I'll do that. Yeah. Or dog treats. They like dog treats. They give me sparkly things, right?
00:04:19
Oh, I guess that's true. And I give them dog treats. I thought they like sparkly things.
00:04:22
I'll give them sparkly things. Throw a diamond out there. Throw a diamond. Here's my wedding ring.
00:04:28
I'm sorry for your friend. The loss of a friend is very difficult. Oh, okay. Yeah.
00:04:34
Okay, so we're going to follow through on something we've talked about in the past.
00:04:37
Can you believe it? So a couple weeks ago, I gave Karen a book, a self-help book, and we decided we're going to do a self-help book club.
00:04:45
And so we just want to remind you guys to pick up this book if you want to follow along.
00:04:50
It's called Emotional Agility, Get Unstuck, Embrace Change and Thrive in Work and Life by Susan David.
00:04:57
So while we're on our little vacation, we're going to both read that probably, maybe, or you'll never hear about it again.
00:05:05
We're going to do it because people want a book club of some kind and we can at least approach it.
00:05:11
And I did like your original idea, which is read it and then you say what you learned and I'll say what I learned.
00:05:16
Yeah. And the next time you pick one. Yeah, exactly. Okay. And people can write in.
00:05:20
But also, who recommended that book to you first? Your therapist? No, no. It was on one of those like 10 books that'll change your life.
00:05:27
Oh, nice. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So. Are you ready to have your life changed? I'm ready and willing.
00:05:33
I need it. Okay. Then I'm excited about this because I'm interested in reading this book, but I just don't make time for reading.
00:05:39
Yeah. So it will make me do that. Yeah. You have to. Take that book with me on my break and then get through it and treat it as homework.
00:05:47
If you don't do it, a crow will die. No. No. We will drown a crow. We drown one crow for every chapter You just like outside drinking your coffee like Kitsidae going to be a great day Anything else I don think so Should we just talk about our network Sure yeah Let talk about our podcast network called My Favorite
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Nope. Called Exactly Right Media. Oh, well, this is kind of breaking news about the fan cults.
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We basically, we're taking new members because we're now offering ad-free audio,
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Yeah. $8 a month or the yearly is actually less than what $8 a month would add up to.
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It's $80. Yeah. It's a deal all around. Eight times 12 is 80? No. I think it's cheaper. I don't know.
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00:07:22
I'm crazy Larry. I've got to get rid of these TVs. I can't do basic multiplication. I'm crazy Larry.
00:07:27
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Keep going. You just spin this little hand that has an MFM on it and it tells you what you are.
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I love it. That's very cute. So go to exactly right store dot com to order those pins.
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through a solo episode yeah you don't have to do jack shit now you know it's the best okay i now
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it work time for me okay do you need anything from me no i think i okay just what about like weird steely stare yeah definitely like stare me down okay make me really uncomfortable Okay Or I going to do this thing the second you look up I going to look down
00:12:06
Just some tricky... Go through your papers or something like that. Or start texting.
00:12:09
Just a lot of under audio. Okay. Get serious. This is a serious one. Yeah. It's a heavy hitter.
00:12:16
Okay. I didn't want to do it until I read the autobiography about it, and I did.
00:12:21
so today's story is about a kidnapping in june of 2002 in salt lake city which can only mean one
00:12:29
thing this is a kidnapping and survival story of elizabeth smart and it's her version of it yes
00:12:35
it's called my story i read it it's incredible brilliant it's just like so moving and then
00:12:41
there's also a docuseries that she's in called autobiography elizabeth smart and then the rest
00:12:47
Their sources can be found in the show notes. Here we are. It's June 6th, 2002. Do you know this one well?
00:12:53
Not well. Yeah. I mean, I know it enough to, like, if you asked me, I think I would pass a test with a C.
00:13:00
Yeah, it's the one with that, but you don't know, like, the details. Yes, but here's one detail I do remember, kind of separate, is our first show in Salt Lake City.
00:13:08
Remember the audience member that gave us the picture where it was Elizabeth Smart at the party?
00:13:13
Yes, I'm going to get to that. It's so fucking crazy. It's so crazy. And then also, like, I always I used to think of the J.C. Duggard story as well, which I also read her autobiography.
00:13:23
So they're very different, although they're similar in a lot of ways as well. So it's June 6th, 2002.
00:13:30
It's a warm, quiet night in the Federal Heights neighborhood of Salt Lake City, Utah, obviously.
00:13:35
Federal Heights sits at the foothills of the Wasatch Mountains, perched above the downtown area.
00:13:42
So there's a lot of like, you know, mountainous terrain and how beautiful nature is in Utah.
00:13:50
Incredible. Yeah. Remember that view out that hotel we got to stay at on tour? Absolutely not.
00:13:54
Yes, yes. The mountains and then the fog rolled in. No, you know what I remember is that they had English tea.
00:14:01
I remember the food. Yeah. We just had an, or maybe it was just my room. Maybe you were on the other side.
00:14:06
I had a, yeah, yeah, yeah. I faced the mountain range and then watched a storm front come over the mountain range and change the entire view and then go away.
00:14:16
And I was like, this is unbelievable. I love weather. It's just we don't have it here.
00:14:20
Yeah, it's really cool. So this is where the Smart family lives. Ed and Lois Smart have six children, four boys and two girls.
00:14:27
Elizabeth is the second oldest child and the oldest girl, the big sister. She's 14 years old, and she's asleep in the room she shares with her nine-year-old sister, Mary Catherine.
00:14:39
At about two in the morning, Elizabeth opens her eyes to what seems like a nightmare.
00:14:45
But within a few minutes, she realizes it's real. It's a man standing in their bedroom, dressed all in black.
00:14:51
And then he's standing over her, and she feels something cold and sharp against her neck.
00:14:56
And he says, quote, I have a knife to your throat. Don't make a sound. Get out of bed or I'll kill you and your family.
00:15:03
This is the rarest kind of a true crime. Right. This is the stranger abduction is so rare and it's just so creepy and it's like everyone's
00:15:14
worst nightmare. And then imagine you're a kid and you're in a house of eight people, including sharing
00:15:19
a room with your little sister. Yeah. It's just unfathomable. It's unfathomable.
00:15:23
And it's similar to poly class. Exactly. Like taken out of a place where everyone is.
00:15:28
Feels safe. Yeah, totally. So Elizabeth says, quote, it really seemed like either do what he says and go with him
00:15:35
or have your neck cut open and die, end quote. The man makes Elizabeth get out of bed.
00:15:40
He makes her get her sneakers. She asks him why he's doing this. And he says, quote, I'm taking you hostage for ransom, end quote.
00:15:49
So as she's being walked through the hallway of her home, Elizabeth silently prays that her parents will wake up
00:15:54
and come rescue her. But she also worries that the man has already killed her family.
00:15:59
She doesn't know. Right. That's definitely a possibility. So she only knows for sure
00:16:03
that her little sister, who she shares a room with, is still alive and she wants to keep it that way.
00:16:08
And so she complies. Yeah. The house remains silent and the man walks Elizabeth out the sliding glass door
00:16:14
to the backyard. Elizabeth's house is at the base of a mountain. There's one more residential street
00:16:20
behind the house. And after that, there's just a trail that goes uphill. This story has so many moments of close calls of her being rescued that it's so frustrating.
00:16:31
And this immediately is one of them because a cop car drives by and doesn't see anything.
00:16:36
Nightmare. Yeah. So the man leads her uphill with the knife at her back. She tries on multiple occasions to bargain with him, saying that her parents will pay this ransom that he said he's after and that they won't press charges.
00:16:49
She gets to a point where she tells him that if his plan is to rape and kill her, he should just do it.
00:16:53
here, right there, because she wants her parents to be able to find her body. I know. Elizabeth says that he then smiles, which is a look that chills her to the bone.
00:17:03
And he says, quote, I'm not going to rape and kill you yet. End quote. I think most of us have seen pictures of this man. And it is like so sinister to think of it
00:17:14
this way, where he's like truly looks like a boogeyman. He's like confusing looking and very
00:17:19
Like almost like ancient looking and creepy. Yeah. Like someone that if you saw on the street, you would avoid as a woman.
00:17:25
As a woman alone on the street, you would not be comfortable walking past this person.
00:17:29
So that guy smiling in the woods of like and saying that sentence is like, man, it's horrifying.
00:17:35
It is. So at daybreak, as they're still walking, Elizabeth gets a better look at her captor and she realizes that she recognizes him.
00:17:41
He's a man who did yard work at her family's house for one day months earlier. He had introduced himself as Emmanuel and when she had met him he had been clean and now he has a long scraggly beard but she can tell it definitely him The family had first met Emmanuel on a street corner in downtown Salt Lake City in the fall of 2001 about eight months prior The kids and Lois
00:18:06
the mom, had been back to school shopping, and they saw him panhandling, and they are a charitable
00:18:11
family. So the boys, the smart boys, asked their mom if there was any work that they could give him
00:18:18
around the house. And she gives him a $5 bill and says that, you know, there is work for you to
00:18:24
do around the house for money if you can come. Elizabeth later writes, quote, what I didn't know
00:18:30
but would later learn was that he had been watching me very carefully as we walked toward him.
00:18:35
He had taken the opportunity to study me further as my mom searched through her purse. He remembered
00:18:40
everything about me, the clothes I was wearing, my blonde hair, the way I looked up at my mother,
00:18:45
the color of my eyes. And though he was careful not to show it, he decided that moment that I was
00:18:50
the one, like he was already looking to prey on someone. When the Smart family does wind up hiring
00:18:56
Emmanuel to rake leaves and repair the roof at their house, he learns where she lives that way.
00:19:02
He spends the next couple of months devising his plan to kidnap Elizabeth. Emmanuel's actual name is Brian David Mitchell, and at this point he's about 49 years old.
00:19:13
Elizabeth makes it clear in her book that everything she's learned about him has been
00:19:17
against her will. So we won't talk too much about him, but she briefly outlines how he has a history
00:19:24
of substance abuse. And as a teenager, he had been charged for exposing himself to a younger child.
00:19:30
He had been married three times and had 13 children and stepchildren. Jesus. And among those children were other charges of abuse. So this is just a bad, bad man.
00:19:40
Back to that morning when they get to the top of the mountain, they walk into a densely wooded area
00:19:44
and then Elizabeth sees a campsite. Mitchell calls out a name. It's Hepzibah. Then Elizabeth hears a woman's voice
00:19:53
yelling his name, Emmanuel, in return and then an eerie looking woman steps out of the tent.
00:19:59
I always think of the Princess Bride when, yeah, the witch, yeah. She has messy, stringy, long gray hair
00:20:08
and she's wearing a set of white robes. Like how chilling for this child to see.
00:20:14
This is like a Grimm's fairy tale gone totally wrong. And then, yeah, and then also seeing a woman, there's like a part of you where it's like, oh, maybe I'm saved because it's not just this creepy man with you.
00:20:26
But immediately realizing it's not the case. She's like crawling out of a well, basically, of just like this is as scary as it can be.
00:20:33
Totally. This woman is Wanda Barzee. She's in her late 50s and she's Mitchell's third wife.
00:20:40
Barzy had also been previously married, has six children, but she relinquished her parental rights when she met and married Mitchell.
00:20:48
So as Mitchell and Elizabeth enter the campsite, Barzy envelops Elizabeth in a hug that feels more menacing than comforting.
00:20:56
So one thing that neither Elizabeth nor her captors realize is that Elizabeth's little sister, nine-year-old Mary Catherine, had actually woken up and seen almost the whole kidnapping.
00:21:07
I didn't know that. Yeah. That's what I'm telling you. I know. Elizabeth and Mary Catherine are very close. Every night, Elizabeth reads out loud from a chapter book to her little sister. On the night of the kidnapping, they had been in the middle of Ella Enchanted.
00:21:23
Right after Elizabeth is taken out of her room, she attempts to go wake up her parents, but she gets freaked out thinking that Elizabeth and her captor are still there.
00:21:33
Yeah. So she runs back to her room and hides into the covers and stays there for about two hours until she can get the courage to go wake up her parents.
00:21:41
The fact that she could go and do it at all is unbelievable. That is the scariest thing.
00:21:46
A man with a fucking knife in your room. Yeah. Takes your sister. the idea that she wasn't just stuck there
00:21:53
till the morning she's incredible when she gets the nerve to wake her parents and tells them Elizabeth has been taken
00:21:59
the three of them go downstairs together and when Lois turns on the lights she immediately sees an open kitchen window
00:22:06
and that the screen at the window had been sliced open and she starts screaming unfortunately the situation unfolds
00:22:14
similarly to in the JonBenet Ramsey case and it's mistakes that are immediately made
00:22:20
Ed calls the police, but he also calls lots of friends and family members, obviously, to come help look for his daughter, Elizabeth.
00:22:27
But the inexperienced graveyard shift police officers that first show up don't lock down the house.
00:22:34
And pretty quickly, every last inch of it has been completely trampled. Now, I could totally be wrong.
00:22:40
No idea. It seems to me you want the experienced people on the night shift. It's nighttime shit.
00:22:46
Can we have the experienced people on the all shifts? Good point. But I guess the answer is no. So if we had to split it, can't the inexperienced people do stuff during the day?
00:22:55
Yeah, bad things happen at night. That's when the evils come out. I don't know. I hear you.
00:23:00
Someone's like, and the actual fact of that is that four o'clock is the time. It's all bad.
00:23:06
It's all bad. By the time an experienced detective gets there at 6 a.m., he says that Elizabeth's room and the rest of the house is, quote, contaminated beyond all hope.
00:23:15
so all members of the smart family are questioned individually by police of course and mary catherine
00:23:21
recounts what she saw she says she believes she heard elizabeth captor say the word ransom
00:23:26
which she's right he did say although he was lying ed smart's brother the dad's brother works
00:23:34
for the deseret news which is one of the main newspapers in utah so later that day the smarts
00:23:40
appear before the media. And Ed's brother gets Elizabeth's photo out and story out to all the national news outlets.
00:23:48
And it's a huge story immediately on cable news by that evening. You know, we have to say it's a beautiful blonde girl
00:23:56
who goes missing from a religious family, so. In the mid-2000s, right? Yeah, right, 2002.
00:24:02
Meanwhile, we're back at this campsite. And the woman Elizabeth knows now as Hetzabaah washes Elizabeth's feet, almost like a ritual thing, and then forces Elizabeth to change out of her red pajamas into a set of white robes similar to what she's wearing.
00:24:18
And this, it's so hard to read her account of this, but it's incredible that she was able to express herself.
00:24:26
Elizabeth is left alone in the tent and Emmanuel comes back in. He's now wearing a similar set of robes and he performs what he tells Elizabeth is a marriage ceremony.
00:24:37
And afterwards he rapes her just immediately after kidnapping her. Right. It's the only reason he did it.
00:24:44
I know. I mean, like, the idea that he has roped in some woman to somehow ritualize that is disgusting.
00:24:51
Thinking about God somehow. Yes. It's the most evil fucking thing in the world. Jesus is the one who washed people's feet.
00:24:58
You can get up because no one's buying that from you, ma'am. So gross. And so Elizabeth is a member of the LDS Church, of course, and writes about how her faith helped her survive her terrible ordeal.
00:25:11
But in the years since her kidnapping, she's also become a vocal critic of the purity culture in which she was raised.
00:25:18
It's really interesting because she had grown up being told that her worth was tied to her virginity.
00:25:24
It was taken away from her forcefully. And then she immediately felt worthless. And she doesn't think that that's fair. After she was raped, she says that she struggled with a sense of worthlessness that immediately followed and it made her almost reluctant to seek help during different points in her captivity. Like she didn't feel worth saving anymore.
00:25:49
Yeah. She says she thought, quote, why would it even be worth screaming out? Why would it even make a difference if you are rescued?
00:25:56
Your life still has no value. End quote. It's weird that that's the message coming from a religion.
00:26:03
Yeah. It just is so it just isn't because who does that actually affect? They're not saying that the man has no value.
00:26:11
It's the woman always. On many occasions, Elizabeth has criticized the abstinence only education she was given,
00:26:17
which when she was experiencing the worst suffering of her life made her think of herself as quote
00:26:22
a chewed up piece of gum so she's fighting against that which is incredible it's great
00:26:27
so mitchell puts a wire cable around elizabeth's ankle and he then attaches that to a tree so
00:26:33
there's no opportunity for her to try to run away sorry really quick but that just that linking all
00:26:37
of that together this is why i'm so excited that she wrote an autobiography yeah because that idea
00:26:42
of I never thought about that at the purity culture because there was the time where before
00:26:47
she was actually found where they took film of her walking down the street with them.
00:26:51
It's like, why would she do this? And it's like, instead of actually finding out why, it was just people wanting to scream
00:26:57
like, well, she must have wanted to be with them or something instead of like, track it
00:27:01
to why she would be feeling that way. I mean, she was already indoctrinated in this religious practice, ideology, and believed
00:27:10
this thing about herself. There's the answers right there. Yeah. And the answer is, you know, no one knows how they'll react in a situation that's so traumatic.
00:27:19
So shut the fuck up. Yeah. Okay. I'm just saying shut the fuck up. No more questions.
00:27:27
So Karen. Okay. So at the bottom of the mountain, a massive search effort mobilizes to look for Elizabeth.
00:27:32
Around 10,000 volunteers show up to help. It's a huge story. On the third day of Elizabeth's disappearance, after not sleeping, Ed, her father, suffers a breakdown and is briefly hospitalized, but the search efforts continue.
00:27:46
On that same day, while at the campsite, Elizabeth actually hears her name called out by searchers.
00:27:52
Oh, no. She is elated, thinking she's going to be rescued, but she's sitting right in between Mitchell and Barzee at the campsite.
00:28:00
Mitchell picks up a knife and says he'll kill her if she makes any noise. and to Elizabeth's horror, the voices fade
00:28:06
and she doesn't ever hear anyone searching for her again, except she does hear helicopters flying
00:28:12
right above the campsite, which is, like, it's shaking the tent. It's so close. But it's hidden by a dense crop, cop.
00:28:21
Overgrowth? Of trees. Thank you. What were you trying to say? Crop. A crop, yeah.
00:28:27
No, cops. What is it? I've been reading too many fucking Scottish books lately. Cops. Cops? Cops, a TV show? No. One of my favorites. Cops of Trees. Yes. Thank you. I've literally been reading Irish and Scottish books lately. How do you spell cops? C-O-R-P-S, right? C-O-P-S-E. That's it. Cops. I literally have never heard that word before. Okay. Amazing. I think I only read it, which is why I didn't know how to. That's what happens to readers. Okay. So over the coming weeks, the smart family, they come under scrutiny at first.
00:29:00
But soon the focus falls on a man who did some construction work around the smart house also.
00:29:06
But it's a different man completely. This man had a criminal history and possibly had stolen from the smarts while working on their house.
00:29:14
Like he's a good looking suspect for this crime. He's also accused of breaking and entering and stealing in other homes around the neighborhood.
00:29:20
But Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's little sister, tells her parents she is positive that he is not the person she saw in her room the night of Elizabeth's disappearance.
00:29:29
But, of course, she's nine, and they're like, uh-huh, shut the fuck up. You know what I mean?
00:29:34
I want Mary Catherine's autobiography now. Seriously. I mean, a nine-year-old that has to, like, fight for her sister.
00:29:40
Wait till you hear what she does. Uh-oh. Wait till you fucking hear. I'm definitely crying during this.
00:29:43
Yeah, you're definitely crying. Then, about six weeks after Elizabeth's kidnapping, while this other dude is in custody being questioned,
00:29:51
Mitchell tells Elizabeth that he's going to kidnap Elizabeth's cousin. Elizabeth had casually brought up her cousin in a previous conversation which is how Mitchell had come up with the idea So Elizabeth cousin who was around the same age as Elizabeth named Olivia 50 days after Elizabeth abduction the Wright family basically they awakened to someone trying to climb through a window in their house
00:30:13
Cut the screen just like at Elizabeth's house. But Elizabeth's cousin, Olivia, had actually been sleeping on the floor of her parents' bedroom at the time because everyone was so freaked out.
00:30:24
Oh, my God. However, her sister would have been asleep in the bedroom if Mitchell had made it in, but he didn't. They woke up and chased him off. So the guy that they think did it is in custody when that happens. Right. So like, maybe it's not him. No, police are not convinced at the time that they have the wrong guy. But at the same time, you can't be like, that's great that they kept, you know what I mean? Like, it could have been a copycat. We're talking shit because now we know that it's all hindsight.
00:30:51
But he's still a suspect for a reason. And I mean, it's that idea of like, if you have a person that's checking seven of the 10 boxes, you can't just be like, yeah, that's right.
00:31:03
Something else happens similar. Right. We would have been talking shit on that if that was the case.
00:31:07
Right. But the Smart family, they totally believe it means the kidnapper is still at large.
00:31:13
And since he knew about Olivia, the cousin, like specifically, that might mean that Elizabeth is still alive.
00:31:20
Got it. Because she talked about her. Just give some hope. So back at the campsite, Elizabeth is sexually abused nearly every day.
00:31:26
Mitchell calls Elizabeth by a different name. Sheerja Shub is her name, some biblical.
00:31:31
It's an obscure Old Testament reference. He forces her to drink alcohol, which is against her religion.
00:31:37
He also makes her talk in a biblical way with lots of these and thous and cops of trees.
00:31:46
Cops of trees. Will you please say cops of trees instead of forest? She's just like, dude.
00:31:54
Elizabeth spends a total of six weeks tied to that tree at the campsite before Mitchell and Barzy decide to start making regular trips down into Salt Lake City as a group.
00:32:04
So she just has to, for almost two months, just camp with these psychos and stay alive.
00:32:13
Yeah, and get sexually assaulted and raped on the daily. That's such a long time.
00:32:20
It's horrible. Like, this is just so brazen. They take her with them. They all wear their white robes, but Barzi and Elizabeth cover their hair and faces with white veils so only their eyes can be seen. They look like some kind of religious fundamentalist, which stands out even in Salt Lake City, where everyone is. And Elizabeth says that people would just quickly look away uncomfortably whenever they passed.
00:32:43
On one occasion, they're at a grocery store and the cashier invites them to a house party and they go. It's a house that regularly hosts events for the Salt Lake City counterculture scene, which is like kind of punk, you know. And there's usually a performance art element to these events. So they see these people who obviously have these certain beliefs and like, hey, come to our party. These guys would be cool to talk to.
00:33:08
for this guy because the women don't speak. So they invite him and there are photographs of them
00:33:14
at the party, like you said. And like hindsight, of course, you look at the photo. It's like a
00:33:19
close up and it's so clearly her to us. And it's just so heartbreaking and hard to look at. And
00:33:27
you can't help but be like, if I were there, I would have done this and that. But you wouldn't
00:33:30
have. No. You know, and like there's a picture of him talking to a girl. She's like, I'll tat it
00:33:34
up. She looks like a murderino. She looks very cool. She's probably like has her sensors up. And
00:33:40
I'm sure she's just like, I should have known because they do later talk about feeling guilty
00:33:45
that they didn't figure it out. Of course. But it's like, first of all, 2002 is a time of great
00:33:52
toxicity in our culture in general. And so that idea of like, I have an inkling of something and
00:33:59
I'm worried about it, but everyone stay quiet with everything because there was no kind of
00:34:04
here's a pattern if you call the cops or if you're going to try to draw attention to something.
00:34:09
As a woman by yourself, here's how it's going to go. Everyone's going to say you're crazy and weird and not go with you.
00:34:17
And so many women had experienced that, whereas 2025, girls, you literally have to look up and give somebody a look and people will be like,
00:34:24
Hey girl, what's up? You're coming with us. Got the hand gestures down. It's changed profoundly, whereas before it was like you don't want to step out of line.
00:34:33
Even at like a punk party. Totally. And on this occasion at the party, 14-year-old Elizabeth just is too stunned and scared by all the people to say anything.
00:34:45
Again, she had been two months of extreme trauma. She's just scared. However, Mitchell is so disruptive and obnoxious that they, even they can't stand him and they kick him out of the party.
00:34:58
They're like, we like stuff like that here and we hate you. Yeah. Like, you're the worst person.
00:35:02
get the fuck out. Yeah. On another occasion, okay, and so this is the thing too,
00:35:06
because those party attendees say they feel haunted by the fact that they didn't realize
00:35:10
that it was Elizabeth. But on another occasion, in August of 2002, two months after Elizabeth's kidnapping,
00:35:16
the group goes to the Salt Lake City Public Library to research places they can spend the winter.
00:35:22
And when they're there, a library patron actually looks closely at Elizabeth and her veil.
00:35:28
And that person recognized her from just her eyes in the slit of her veil because it's a huge story.
00:35:33
It's one of their own who's gone missing immediately. He thinks it's her. That person calls the police.
00:35:40
That person's clearly a hero. The person tells them it's Elizabeth Smart at his library
00:35:45
and a homicide detective comes. Long story short, he lets them go. He questions them.
00:35:53
He claims Mitchell claims that Elizabeth is his daughter and that she keeps her face covered for religious reasons so you can ask her to show her face And while this is happening Elizabeth is standing there
00:36:06
and she's worried that if she speaks out, the detective might not believe her, and she'll be punished or killed because of it.
00:36:12
Yes. She's been brutalized ritualistically. She's not in a place where she can be like,
00:36:18
here's what, I'm going to stand up and be strong. It's like, no, she need that cop.
00:36:22
That's that kind of thing. And it's like, this isn't based on anything except for in a situation like that, letting him dictate terms fucks you every time.
00:36:32
Right. Because he's absolutely going to do the thing that covers his ass. Right.
00:36:36
So if it's like, no, sorry, you simply can't do that for religious reasons. It's like, grab that female librarian, go into that room and take this off.
00:36:45
Like, do the thing that's most respectful, but at the same time, get your answer.
00:36:49
That's how the J.C. Duggard case was solved is because someone wouldn't mind their own business.
00:36:56
Yeah. It's the exact same thing. And you know, Adrian, my sister's friend, Adrian's mother-in-law.
00:37:00
That's right. She didn't mind her own business as a parole officer who went and checked there and said,
00:37:04
That's it. Bad stuff is happening there. You need to go raid it. And they wouldn't listen to her.
00:37:08
Exactly. Pushpuk Kulasingham, you're a queen. You're the best. She's the one that used to say to Nora when Nora, when she was little,
00:37:17
said when she grew up she wanted to be a cheerleader. And Pushpa would go, don't be a cheerleader, be a doctor.
00:37:23
I've told you that story before. And now we're back to the Elizabeth Smart case.
00:37:28
So somehow Mitchell is able to walk free after this interaction. This happening also doubled down to her that you're stuck here.
00:37:39
You're lost. Do not say anything. You know what I mean? of like just reinforced all of that for her. So right around the same time, that prime suspect
00:37:47
who Mary Catherine's had said wasn't the guy dies of an aneurysm. Is that suspicious? Because so many
00:37:55
investigators were convinced that this man had kidnapped and killed Elizabeth, it deflates a lot
00:37:59
of people's hope that Elizabeth will ever be found. Elizabeth's family, who believe her kidnapper
00:38:04
wasn't that guy and is still at large, worried the police will quit looking. By September of 2002,
00:38:10
Mitchell, Barzi, and Elizabeth, they've relocated to San Diego. And they're camping at a new site
00:38:17
in a wetland outside the city. Elizabeth nicknames this area the Fire Swamp because it looks exactly like the Fire Swamp
00:38:25
from the movie The Princess Bride. Yeah. She's just a kid. Yeah. All right. So back to Mary Catherine.
00:38:32
It's been four months, and she's just constantly going over in her head what happened, what she saw and heard
00:38:39
the night of her big sister's disappearance. In October of 2002, Ed Smart is tucking his now 10-year-old daughter,
00:38:48
Mary Catherine, into bed. And she says, I think I know whose voice I heard that night.
00:38:55
It just comes to her. She says she thinks it's Emmanuel, the unhoused man they had hired for yard work
00:39:01
a year earlier. Yep. She just remembers suddenly some little piece in her brain clicks together.
00:39:08
and she remembers the exact correct person. How, like, that's just extraordinary.
00:39:14
Yeah. Right? The whole family remembers him and they remember meeting him in downtown Salt Lake.
00:39:20
They remember the one day he came to work on their roof in late 2001. They remember that he talked a lot about his ministry work,
00:39:27
like how he said he liked to preach at homeless shelters. And they remember that he was supposed to come back
00:39:33
the next day to finish the job, but he never did. They tell police, the police are skeptical about this leave.
00:39:38
There's a lot of back and forth between the police and the Smart family about whether a sketch of a manual should even be released.
00:39:44
This back and forth lasts into the beginning of 2003. I know. This poor family. Some authorities in the Salt Lake City Police are just completely convinced that this earlier now dead suspect was the one who kidnapped and killed Elizabeth.
00:39:59
And they don't believe that 10-year-old Mary Catherine could possibly know what she's talking about.
00:40:04
But thankfully, others believe that there could be merit to releasing a sketch of Emanuel.
00:40:10
However, they also think that doing so, if it is him, could endanger her life if she is actually still alive.
00:40:17
Meanwhile, back in California, Mitchell has been disappearing from the campsite for days on end, leaving both Elizabeth and Barzee to come close to dying of dehydration and starvation.
00:40:27
Mitchell's also talking about moving again this time to like a big city like New York or Boston to get lost there
00:40:34
Elizabeth thinks that if this happens she knows she'll never be found She decides to try to manipulate him
00:40:40
She knows him so well at this point And she thinks her best chance of survival is to go back to Utah where people will recognize her, you know
00:40:48
She plays it perfectly She tells Mitchell that she knows God couldn't possibly speak to her
00:40:54
but she feels strongly it's God's will that the group go back to Utah. She just totally manipulates him into it becoming his idea
00:41:02
and God told him to go back to Utah. So they return there. Smart. Yeah. Okay, so all this debate with the police about releasing the sketch of a man they know as Emmanuel
00:41:12
goes back and forth for months. Finally, in February of 2003, the smart family essentially goes rogue.
00:41:18
They're like, we're not doing this anymore. This is our daughter's life. Good. And without involvement from law enforcement, they host a press conference releasing the sketch to the media.
00:41:28
Which is so bold, but it's like there are no other leads. And for the people who are saying, hey, we knew who did it.
00:41:34
Yeah. Like not based on fact or anything, just this is better for us. Right. And now that guy's dead, so this is over.
00:41:40
Yeah. Well, then if it's over for you, we get to go rogue. And our daughter is literally saying that's who it was.
00:41:46
Yes. We believe her. Yes. It just that has to be the frustration of having a name and no one doing anything about it I mean I can even imagine So insane but also so great that I sure as kind of LDS members rule followers community like be respectful Yeah authority You know authority whatever
00:42:06
It's like, well, we did that for one year with you. Where has it gotten us? Yeah.
00:42:11
So they released a sketch to the media. And then John Walsh, none other than John Walsh, discusses what's going on on Larry King, which was a huge show at the time.
00:42:22
Yeah. And on John Walsh's own show, America's Most Wanted. So it gets picked up.
00:42:29
John Walsh had been in touch with the Smart family since the beginning of the disappearance.
00:42:34
He offers support because he'd been through a similar situation, having had his son, Adam
00:42:40
Walsh, as we all remember, kidnapped and murdered. I covered the Adam Walsh case in episode 242, if you want to listen to that.
00:42:48
So it gets out. And immediately after this, relatives of both Mitchell and Barzee come forward and are like, that's who that is. They reveal their identities immediately. They know who it is. The FBI figures out that Mitchell has been arrested for shoplifting while in California. So they know the group has traveled there.
00:43:05
And those relatives give photos of both Mitchell and Barzi in their white robes, like exactly how they look to the press.
00:43:13
And Barzi's children go on the news specifically to talk about how they believe both of them could be capable of kidnapping Elizabeth.
00:43:22
They're like totally on the side of finding Elizabeth. Wow. Yeah. Amazing. Yeah.
00:43:26
On March 12, 2003, two separate couples in Sandy, Utah, about 30 minutes north of Salt Lake, call either the police or the America's Most Wanted hotline to report sightings of Mitchell and Barzi and a young girl in disguise who they now think is Elizabeth.
00:43:42
The group's been walking along the side of the road. They're no longer wearing their robes,
00:43:47
possibly because those photos had been circulated. Now they're wearing normal clothes,
00:43:51
but Elizabeth is wearing a gray wig, sunglasses, and a shirt tied around her head, like a handkerchief, sort of.
00:43:57
So police find them and stop them, this group of people. Mitchell tries to prevent them to talking to Elizabeth by themselves,
00:44:05
but the officers are now like, we know who this is. Like, they're pretty certain.
00:44:09
They finally separate each of them. The officer speaking to Elizabeth tries to get her to say who she is for like 45 minutes.
00:44:18
She denies being Elizabeth Smart. I remember that. How traumatized she is. Yes. Yeah.
00:44:23
From the initial story breaking. And they said it, it felt like it was messaged in the media, like, she did this.
00:44:31
Can you believe this? She wanted to be there, maybe. Just that tone was so insane.
00:44:36
Yeah. He's still in earshot, and she's afraid that he'll hear her. Elizabeth later says, quote,
00:44:42
Finally, the officer interviewing Elizabeth says that he'd like to give her one more chance to say who she is.
00:44:59
He asks, are you Elizabeth smart? She is still afraid of Mitchell hearing. And so she answers with that quasi-biblical language saying, thou sayest.
00:45:09
And the officer takes that as a yes. I mean, I hope that the process has changed since that time.
00:45:15
Just yelling at what's your name, what's your name? Separate rooms. Put them in a car if you think this is who these people are.
00:45:21
Give the victim a victim's advocate instead of just saying, who are you? Right. Or just get the people they're with away from them in a secure way.
00:45:30
like make it clear that we're like not gonna if you tell us you'll be over here yeah like what's
00:45:36
gonna happen next is you'll be safe yes totally elizabeth's family is of course overjoyed to have
00:45:42
her back and it seems like the entire nation is just like so relieved like it just doesn't happen
00:45:47
right that she comes back alive that anyone comes back alive after being kidnapped yeah so it's just
00:45:53
this big celebration that it finally happens john walsh says quote we finally got one back
00:45:58
end quote I know and even after all she's been through Elizabeth recovers on the day after she
00:46:05
gets home her family throws her a 15th birthday party to make up for the one she missed I know
00:46:09
she doesn't go she stays she stays in her room understandably like just totally overwhelmed but
00:46:15
she does send down a poster thanking everyone for coming I'm sure it's just like too much yeah
00:46:21
and then she goes on to go to high school she goes to college she has friends she goes on dates
00:46:27
She goes to dances and generally she enjoys her life. She goes on her LDS mission trip.
00:46:32
She gets a prime assignment in Paris as she deserves. I know. Like, don't just please let it be easy for her.
00:46:39
The elders were like, guess where she is going to go. Yeah. And there she meets the man who will ultimately become her husband.
00:46:47
On her trip? Yeah. Wanda Barzee pleads guilty to kidnapping in 2009. And I mean, these people in court were just disruptive.
00:46:55
and it was just the photos that kept coming out on the news were just so disturbing.
00:47:00
She's sentenced to 15 years in prison and she's since been released. But just last month, she was rearrested for entering a public park in Salt Lake City,
00:47:08
which she's not allowed to do as a registered sex offender. Oh, wow. Though Barzee issued a teary apology to Elizabeth at her trial during this most recent arrest,
00:47:18
she said she was commanded by God to enter the park. And so Elizabeth has publicly talked about how troubling it is that Barzi is still justifying her actions in this way.
00:47:27
It's not an apology when you are not taking accountability for what you did. There's no apology there.
00:47:34
And you're kind of back to your old thinking of like the Lord. But also, yeah. I know.
00:47:40
Not long enough. Well, just I think the one thing I was going to say that's in the positive, it seems like the authorities in Salt Lake City are tracking Wanda Barzi's actions.
00:47:49
So the second she steps into a public park, she's arrested where it's like, I don't know, you don't usually get that kind of response normally where it feels like they're like, do not let them rest.
00:48:00
Yeah. Keep an eye. Yeah. Okay. That's good. Maybe. Mitchell's case doesn't go to trial for about eight years due to numerous delays and competency hearings.
00:48:09
He puts on a big show in court. He sings, calls out to Jesus and spins and just like tries to be generally tries to be ruled mentally incompetent to stand trial.
00:48:20
It doesn't work. In 2011, he's finally found guilty of interstate kidnapping and unlawful transportation of a minor.
00:48:27
He's sentenced to life in prison. Many members of the Smart family are still deeply connected to their LDS church, but Elizabeth is actually not the only member of her family who has talked about being harmed by strict interpretations of church ideologies, as we talked about the virginity aspect.
00:48:45
In 2019, Ed Smart, Elizabeth's dad, publicly comes out as gay and he and Lois separate. This is, of course, painful for the family, but Elizabeth gives a statement to the press expressing her unwavering love and support for both her parents.
00:49:00
And now does a lot of work with the LGBTQ youth in Utah and challenges the idea, which is still common in the church, that being gay is something a person can change.
00:49:11
Meanwhile, Elizabeth Smart has become this incredible victim's advocate. She is so admirable.
00:49:17
I mean, I can't say enough good things. She's advocated for the passage of several laws that streamline investigations into missing children.
00:49:24
She and her family also started the Elizabeth Smart Foundation, which advocates for victims of sexual assault and connects them with resources.
00:49:32
I checked out the website. It's ElizabethSmartFoundation.org. And there's a lot of resources there.
00:49:37
Check that out. Elizabeth continues to advocate against that idea or even just teaching children that their worth is connected to their perceived virginity.
00:49:47
And she speaks all over the world. And, you know, she's incredible. She now dedicates herself to teaching the children, quote,
00:49:55
you'll always have value and nothing can change that. And that is the story of the kidnapping and survival of Elizabeth Smart.
00:50:03
And thriving of Elizabeth Smart. I love that that is now the current story about her.
00:50:09
Yeah. And she gets to tell it. She gets to say, this is what happened to me. This is what my life is like now.
00:50:15
Like, there's nothing better than that. No, totally. But also, like, it's incredible.
00:50:19
If you can't do that, if you were a survivor and you can't yet, that's okay, too.
00:50:24
There's so many ways to be. Completely. It's been 20 years. So it's like that's a person who took their time in doing that and built her life back up by her own standards.
00:50:34
It's really cool and really impressive. That was great. Yeah. Thank you. Solo episode.
00:50:39
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comfortable that it doesn't even feel like I'm wearing a bra. Use code MFM15 for $15 off your
00:53:22
first purchase at thirdlove.com. Goodbye. All right. It's another batch of honking hurrays presented by Hyundai.
00:53:39
That's right. You go first. You want me to? Yeah. Okay. This first one says hashtag hurray.
00:53:44
My partner just graduated with his PhD in mechanical engineering, joining the ranks of less than 1% of black men to earn this degree.
00:53:52
Wow. A whole lot of work went into it. And then there's that emoji of exhaling. Oh, yeah.
00:53:56
But I'm thankful to have been along for the ride. Happy grad season. That's right.
00:54:01
It's dads and grad season at Phoenix Harris. Congratulations. That's amazing. Mechanical engineering.
00:54:07
No small feat. Come on. Yeah, that's great. Hooray. Right. Okay. This is from our email.
00:54:13
Hi, MFM. I just finished listening to the hoorays from Manny and Rachel, the public school librarian and teachers union VP.
00:54:20
and I just wanted to write in to back them up. I am a public school psychologist,
00:54:25
so my main role is assessing and determining appropriate support for kids with learning disabilities, intellectual disabilities,
00:54:32
emotional and behavioral needs, autism, ADHD, trauma, etc. It just fills me with hope to hear from other listeners
00:54:38
just buckling down and doing the work in these times where the government is asking us to reduce or remove our help
00:54:45
in the realm of diversity, equity, and inclusion, DEI, which is my world. So my hooray is this MFM community of amazing people doing the work to be the good in this world when the world is trying to beat us down.
00:54:58
Hashtag resist. Love you Erin Erin That was epic Erin great job Yeah And hooray to you That right Keep up the good work Okay The subject line of this email is an unemployed hooray I currently listening to episode 473 and developing film from a solo backpacking trip through the Rockies in my kitchen sink Wow Solo in the Rockies Solo Rockies kitchen sink I make it four hours and then I dig a hole
00:55:27
I was recently fired from a job which, ironically, I had drafted a letter of resignation for one week prior.
00:55:33
I guess the feeling was mutual, it says. Now as I intermittently agitate my developing tank in and out of the warm bath, I'm struck with an amusing thought.
00:55:42
You know what that means, right? Because your sister's a photographer. I'm struck with an amusing thought.
00:55:47
For years, I psyched myself out pursuing my real dream of becoming an adventure photographer
00:55:52
as if the last five years of sustaining a steady diet of misery at a job I hated was so much easier.
00:55:59
You can't do it. As I reflect on that trip and the 16 miles I marched up and down a mountain with a 35-pound pack,
00:56:06
I can't help but think what a cakewalk that was in comparison. Yeah, that's amazing.
00:56:10
So true. So maybe now, as week by week, I'm filled with the palpable joy you two have created by doing what you love.
00:56:16
Aww. Thanks. I can try joy this time too. Wow. Hooray for the universe constantly forcing me to choose courage.
00:56:25
Kay. What's that from me? Kay! Kay! And now I get to read Hoorays from a hene. From me.
00:56:33
In front of a lot of people. That's incredible. Good work, Kay. That's amazing. Okay.
00:56:39
This is email. Hooray slash what am I even doing? I'm happily spraying out my baby's cloth diapers because after seven years of planning, changing life habits, and saving up,
00:56:49
my wife and I were finally financial stable and mentally, question mark, stable enough to have our first baby.
00:56:56
So hooray for stability and sperm donors. Hey. Much love, Gina, she, her. Gina. All the hoorays are covered in that one.
00:57:06
I know. That's incredible. I thought it was going to be more like a, I'm going to be grateful for spraying out my child's cloth diaper instead of fully repulsed by it.
00:57:16
No. Yes. Like, I should say hooray to this because this is what I wanted. Great one.
00:57:21
Okay, this one, it says, hooray. This is an email. It says, teen leadership is the future.
00:57:26
Are you ready for this? I'm a teen. Let me hear it. I'm a teen inside. I got to take 17 students from 7th graders to seniors to a statewide leadership conference.
00:57:35
It was two days filled with workshops by teens about everything from fundraising to teamwork.
00:57:42
My favorites were rip up your cool card. And then in parentheses it says to be cringe is to be free.
00:57:48
Thank God. Lucky friends. And the token emo kid. The token emo kid in like title case.
00:57:57
Oh my God, I love it. And then in parentheses it says making activities that are fun and safe for everyone.
00:58:02
I was completely filled with joy and peace to see hundreds of teenagers who are kind, intelligent, and committed to making the world a better place.
00:58:10
I love being a teacher. And seriously, the kids are all right. Wow. That was from Teddy.
00:58:15
Oh my god. A report from Teddy that the kids are okay. True, those teenagers. Help us, please, teenagers.
00:58:21
Okay, my hooray is that on April 24th, I got to celebrate one year since my craniotomy.
00:58:27
What? At 23 I unexpectedly had a grand mal seizure after experiencing left migraines that grew more frequent This seizure led to them finding a grade 2 arteriovenous malformation in my brain AVMs are usually not discovered until they rupture
00:58:43
or cause a stroke. I am a hypochondriac who always swore I was going to have a stroke every
00:58:48
time I got a migraine. Jokes on everyone because I was partially correct about that. Yeah, you were,
00:58:52
you were right. You're not overdramatic. No. I am so lucky that I am alive and healthy and
00:58:57
suffering no lasting effects from my seizure surgery or avm if you are experiencing migraines
00:59:03
or other neurological issues please point at me you're my neurological issue if you are
00:59:09
if you have a problem please reach out to a medical professional it may save your life
00:59:15
i want to shout out the university hospital main campus neuro icu nurses they are my sweet baby
00:59:20
angels and do not get enough credit stay sexy and get your noggins checked page p wow congratulations
00:59:26
on surviving a neural cranial. Yeah. That's serious. Good job. That's it. Yes, we did it.
00:59:33
All right, thank you guys for tuning in. Thank you for listening. Thank you to Hyundai for presenting these honking hoorays.
00:59:39
And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Bye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?
00:59:46
This has been an Exactly Right production. Our senior producers are Alejandra Keck and Molly Smith.
00:59:56
Our editor is Aristotle Acevedo. This episode was mixed by Liana Squalacci. Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Allie Elkin.
01:00:03
Email your hometowns to myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
01:00:09
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:00:14
And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.
01:00:19
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01:00:52
Goodbye! Goodbye. There's always a point in the day when your feet decide they've had enough.
01:00:57
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01:01:15
The Neptune is the everyday shoe your feet have been waiting for. The Neptune makes me so freaking happy because my whole life I've been yelled at for crushing the heel of my foot because I want every shoe to be a slide, every shoe.
01:01:27
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01:01:32
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01:01:38
Bye. If audiobooks are your thing, or if you've been meaning to listen to more of them,
01:01:42
you should check out a podcast called Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club, hosted by Cal Penn.
01:01:49
Each episode spotlights standout audiobooks on Audible across all kinds of genres,
01:01:53
sci-fi, comedy, romance, thrillers, and more, with Cal talking to guests who help break down what makes each story worth listening to.
01:02:00
It's a fun, easy way to discover your next great audiobook. Check out Earsay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:02:08
Goodbye.