00:00:00
This is exactly right. Hello! And welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hardstar.
00:00:28
That's Karen Kilgariff. And we have a secret to share. We've had a secret for like six years to share.
00:00:37
But now we're going to say it. Say it out loud at the same time. Ready? One, two, three.
00:00:42
We're going on tour. We said the same thing. Yay. We're going on tour. We didn't even have to look at our lines.
00:00:47
You've been asking for years and years. It's finally happening. It's a very small tour.
00:00:54
Yeah, we're going on. Oh, my God. You guys don't even understand that. We've been planning this since before the pandemic and then the pandemic happened, so we couldn't do it.
00:01:01
Since 2018 or 19 is the last time we were on the road. Yeah, we've changed a lot.
00:01:07
And so has the biz. The biz has changed. We've changed. So we're doing like, you could call this a mini tour.
00:01:13
Yes. We're sticking our toe back into the touring pond. Right. And we hope you will come.
00:01:18
You know what this makes me think of is like when we first, and we've talked about this a lot, but when we were first on the road, like I wouldn't have my story.
00:01:26
I know ready. I would be truly writing my story in my hotel room. No researchers,
00:01:33
no support whatsoever, just in my hotel room being like putting something together and hoping it all
00:01:39
worked out. Yep. That and then to the last minute when if you don't start putting makeup on right
00:01:44
now, you won't have any makeup on and then eat something too. Oh, yeah. If you don't do that by
00:01:48
then because your story is not finished, it doesn't matter. You're going to come out with fucking wet
00:01:52
hair. Yes. And no makeup. Which has happened. Yeah. So this time it does feel like we're going
00:01:57
to have our stories done ahead of time. We're going to have help from our lovely researchers.
00:02:02
We have the experience of what we don't want anymore so we can actually communicate what we
00:02:06
do want. Right. And we're not going to 800 cities so we can kind of explore the city we're into.
00:02:11
So all of you that are mad that we're not going to Wichita, just please understand that it's for
00:02:16
our mental health sake and our brain's sake. And you can come to Chicago. We can't wait to see you
00:02:22
in Chicago. And also, we can't start all the way back like we used to because that's the olden days.
00:02:30
So we have to do mini versions and then see what happens. So it's all about like,
00:02:34
is the business there to be done? Totally. And we go from there. I mean, I'm a little nervous.
00:02:39
Like, we used to sell out within fucking moments. Please, Jesus. You know what I would like to say
00:02:44
too? If I had a dream of one audience member that we could see again that would come back,
00:02:51
and I've talked about him a lot over the years. It's my full length coat, St. Louis.
00:02:57
I believe in my, yes, I think he did have a fan. He had a fan in the front row. And this was like 2018, 2017.
00:03:04
I remember him. Early days. Yeah. Fan, full beard from what I remember. Yes. Full length coat.
00:03:10
Yeah. And truly was acting like he was in church, praise church, basically. Or he went to the wrong place.
00:03:17
He thought this was church. He had like, I think he had a boa constrictor. nope he did not have a boa constrictor on he had a cockatiel on his shoulder i think he had a boa
00:03:28
on yes and lots of glitter yes and it's just very like wonderful front row front row there to like
00:03:35
support us not to be like what are you going to give me he was like i'm here to absolutely give
00:03:40
you everything yeah we're excited for this fan cult like we just made sure that we took care of
00:03:45
you as best as we could we know you guys want tickets to live shows and that's why some people
00:03:49
joined. And the drama of people not getting tickets in the past were like, how do we do this so that
00:03:54
nobody's upset? So hopefully that works. Yeah, this is all like an experiment. So yeah, if you're the
00:04:00
person with the fan, we're not coming to St. Louis. How are we going to see you? Let's figure this out.
00:04:05
Yeah, we'll get you there. Okay, so here's the tour. These are the cities. Here's where we're
00:04:08
coming. Just a couple, just a handful. Get ready. So on this mini tour, we're starting off on
00:04:14
September 3rd and 4th in beautiful Denver, Colorado at the Paramount Theater. Nice. And then on
00:04:18
September 10th and 11th, we will be in Austin, Texas at the Bass Concert Hall. And then on
00:04:23
September 20th, we'll be in Boston, Mass at Bach Center Wang Theater. And that'll be two shows,
00:04:28
same day, early show, late show, September 20th. Great. And then Salt Lake City, Utah,
00:04:34
September 26th and 27th at the Eccles Theater. And then we'll be in Oakland, California at the
00:04:39
Paramount Theater on October 2nd and 3rd. And then on October 7th and 8th, we're at the San
00:04:44
Diego Civic Theater. And October 12th, we'll do two shows, an early late show at Arlene Schnitzer
00:04:49
Concert Hall in beautiful Portland, Oregon. The Schnitz. And then we're going to go to Seattle,
00:04:54
Washington to play their Paramount Theater on October 21st and 22nd. And then we're back home
00:05:00
in LA on October 28th to do an early show and a late show at the Pasadena Civic Auditorium.
00:05:05
That's going to be amazing. I know. I'm very excited. Okay, then after that, we're going back
00:05:10
out on November 5th to go back to the city where it all began, the first live show ever,
00:05:15
Chicago, Illinois. But this time we're playing the Chicago Theater. Huge. And then we'll wrap it up with two shows on November 15th. We're back in Brooklyn at the
00:05:23
King's Theater. And that's the tour. So here's what you need to know. The fan cult will have
00:05:29
first access to these tickets. We have gone in and asked them to free up as many pre-sale tickets
00:05:35
for the fan cult as humanly possible so that basically the real ones who have been waiting
00:05:40
for six years can get a chance to get a ticket. That's right. And so that fan cult presale will begin Friday, July 11th.
00:05:47
So if you're listening to this episode right now on Thursday, tomorrow at 10 a.m. in the
00:05:51
city where the show is your local time if you in that city Friday July 11th is when fan cult presale goes up That right And then basically the artist presale starts Monday July 14th at 10 a in the city where the show takes place
00:06:06
So you'll have all weekend Fan Cult to get your ticket until it sells out in the Fan Cult. And
00:06:11
then you'll have another chance on Monday. And then everything else that's available is going
00:06:15
to go up on Tuesday, July 15th. Again, 10 a.m. where the show takes place. Anything left over
00:06:19
that the Fan Cult and the presale didn't sell. Now, just so you know, you can still join the
00:06:24
Fan Cult, if you're hearing all this and this sounds exciting and you want to be a part of it,
00:06:28
you can still join the Fan Cult to get in on that pre-sale access. You just have to do it kind of
00:06:34
quickly so we can send you that unique code to get you into the Fan Cult pre-sale.
00:06:39
Lots of odds and ends. Go to myfavoritemurder.com slash live. We finally have something to put on
00:06:44
that site for all the information you need and for ticket links. And other exactly right media news.
00:06:51
Is there other news? Always. Could there be? Yes, we have a network. And so we're telling you about what's going on on Exactly Right this week.
00:06:58
Like, for example, over on The Knife, Hannah and Peisha tell the story of Tennyson and Kyle Jacobson, whose lives were shaken by not one but two targeted home invasions.
00:07:09
So Tennyson shares her story and the long road to healing that followed. And actually, this was a listener hometown that was one of the first minisodes we ever did.
00:07:19
Minisode 19, we talk about this hometown. Incredible. Over on Ghosted, Roz is celebrating her 100th episode on Exactly Right with the incredible Dwayne Perkins.
00:07:28
They dive into spooky Midwest lore, including the white lady of Bachelor's Grove Cemetery and the Tuttle Bottoms monster.
00:07:35
Is that real? That's cute. Could it be real? and I said no gifts. Bridger isn't totally horrified when Beck Bennett of SNL fame shows
00:07:45
up and gives him a gift. Those two talk about Costco IDs and John Cougar Mellencamp, all the
00:07:51
important things of podcasting. Love it. And then finally, National Hot Dog Day is coming up. We
00:07:56
told you guys to tag us in hot dogs, hot dog stuff for this true crime comedy podcast. Yeah,
00:08:02
So we thought we would really make a meal of focusing on something other than the decline of all of democracy.
00:08:08
And we thought maybe just going micro on hot dogs would help. Yeah. So hashtag my favorite hot dog was born.
00:08:14
And you guys, you really delivered. This is going to continue on. OK. But let's first just take a look at how people first responded when we were like my favorite hot dog.
00:08:23
Let's see some pictures. OK. Oh, my God. Hot dog and nail art. That's brilliant.
00:08:29
And then you'll like it even more because her finger tattoos say Cat Lady. Oh, my God.
00:08:34
Like she's holding up the... Cat Lady is so good. Cat Lady with hot dog. I mean, it's like, is that you?
00:08:41
Is that you getting a manicure? And that's Laura underscore Obsidian nails. Oh, she's plugging her own nail place.
00:08:48
Good for her. Very smart. Get in there. Hot dog nails. You can get hot dog nails.
00:08:51
Okay. This next one I love. It's from at Megan Lyon on Instagram. And those are hot dog deviled eggs.
00:08:58
Yes, they are. And that's brilliant. Like two of my favorite party snacks. Very fun.
00:09:03
Wow. OK, this is hilarious. The caption says, please take a look at the hot dog eating contest slash beauty pageant that some friends of mine put on in Philly a few weeks ago.
00:09:14
I'm chuffed to admit I was crowned Miss Glizzy 2025. That crown has a hot dog on it. And I am in need of that.
00:09:22
These people that submitted this are at Young Money and at Sloppy Seconds underscore Philly.
00:09:29
So matches. These are our friends in Philadelphia. Hell yeah, you guys. It's a beauty contest.
00:09:34
I love it. Hot dog eating contest. That's great. Yeah. Get those nails in there.
00:09:38
Right. And then, oh, this place is called Wienerlicious. I was just in Mackinac City, Michigan.
00:09:44
No. And I didn't see this somehow. Are you being serious? I swear. Vincent and I went to Mackinac Island and hung out in Mackinac City.
00:09:50
Oh, that's cool. And I missed the giant hot dog on top of a hot dog place. You missed a 50-foot hot dog on a roof.
00:09:57
So Michigan? Michigan gets it. Yeah, way to show up and show out. I'm not surprised at all.
00:10:02
And this photo came from Dawn Chaser underscore on Instagram. This one is a great story.
00:10:08
After a rowdy night of chugging Bud Light Premium and UV Blue, I don't know what that is, and making bad decisions,
00:10:14
I decided to make the right decision and pass out with my trusty, rusty hot dog and bottled water.
00:10:19
this photo has become legend and is still brought up way too often 13 years later yeah this is from
00:10:26
emmert famgram that's a great thing to just keep sending your friend like on her wedding day
00:10:32
when she's like becomes a parent or whatever send her this photo of her sleeping on the floor with
00:10:37
a hot dog in her hand also the other friend that's pretending to come and eat like yin and yang of
00:10:42
hot dog eating is hilarious oh this is the last one okay read that one because you're gonna love
00:10:47
Okay. This one's a bunch of people in uniforms eating corn dogs. And the subject line is corn
00:10:53
dog royalty. Hello, ladies. This is my time to shine. My grandfather used to run one of the
00:10:57
largest corn dog factories in the Midwest. They made lots of frozen foods, but the corn dogs were
00:11:02
king. Featured in this photo is my mom, dad, and grandpa at the factory doing a taste test. Yes.
00:11:08
I guess you could say I'm literally corn dog royalty. Corn dog royalty. Much love, Taylor. Incredible.
00:11:15
Taylor, amazing job. I mean, there's so many ways to participate in this. And you have till the 16th, which is National Hot Dog Day.
00:11:22
So just tag us, hashtag my favorite hot dog. Yeah, we'll just keep talking about it.
00:11:26
I feel like you have until December 25th and further. It's never not relevant. Right?
00:11:32
Yeah. What's going to usurp Hot Dog Day? I mean, once we get past summertime Hot Dog Day, it's like, well, how do we attack Hot Dog Day for fall?
00:11:39
It's cold. Where's my? It's autumn. It's a terminal. Where's my terminal hot dog?
00:11:44
Where is my jacket that looks like a bun when I wear all rust colored red? And you zip it all the way up.
00:11:50
With a yellow zipper. Yes. We'll keep doing it. We'll keep going. Okay. Oh well then I think we can actually literally button this topic by telling everybody that right you can get a My Favorite Murder hot dog pin Yeah Pretty legendary We have hot dog merch because of course we do
00:12:06
Yeah. If you like the t-shirt we made, you can now get a pin. You can get that at exactlyrightstore.com.
00:12:11
And it's designed by Sammy Rich, our friend. Put that on your hot dog apron. I mean, between hot dogs and touring, I don't know.
00:12:18
I don't have anything else. What more can we give the people? True crime? Sure. Okay.
00:12:23
In the spirit of true, true crime, this is one of the most, I would say, classic kind of known American true crime cases that we have that we've never covered, which is super weird.
00:12:35
Yeah. This story takes place between January 21st and January 29th of 1958. And in those eight days, 10 people were brutally murdered. By the time the police took these killers into custody, the rapt and terrified public had been hanging on to every word in the increasingly frenzied press coverage.
00:12:56
This case struck such an immediate nerve, not just because of the sheer violence of these murders, but because of who the killers were.
00:13:04
Sadly, these days, we're used to hearing about teenagers committing acts of violence.
00:13:08
But in the 1950s, it was almost unthinkable. And since then, this case has inspired countless documentaries, movies, music, including Terrence Malick's classic movie Badlands, Quentin Tarantino's script for Natural Born Killers, which was directed by Oliver Stone, and of course, the titular song from Bruce Springsteen's album, Nebraska.
00:13:31
Today I'm going to tell you about the notorious mid-century crime spree of Midwestern teens Charles Starkweather and Carol Ann Fugate.
00:13:39
All right. Infamous. Yes. So the main sources that Marin used are the book Starkweather, The Untold Story of the Killing Spree That Changed America by Harry N. McLean, and the book Starkweather, A Story of Mass Murder on the Great Plains by Jeff O'Donnell. And the rest of the sources are in our show notes.
00:13:58
So Charles Starkweather is born in Lincoln, Nebraska in 1938. He's the third of seven children.
00:14:05
His family struggles financially, but unlike many of the murders we've covered on this show, Charlie actually has a good relationship with his parents and his siblings.
00:14:15
And over the years, as people try to figure out the why of this basically murder spree, many people say it's because Charlie was bullied as a child.
00:14:24
Of course, doesn't justify anything, but it is true that he was bullied. He is a redhead. He's much shorter than the boys his age. He's bowlegged. He has a lisp. He's nearsighted, so he has very thick glasses.
00:14:38
He didn't stand a chance back in the 50s. I mean, there's no kindness campaigns that your junior high is like putting into the hallway.
00:14:46
Right. In the least. He is teased and bullied relentlessly. But like many people that kind of go through something like this, by the time he's in junior high, he starts standing up to his bullies.
00:14:59
His dad tells him basically not to take other people's shit. The problem is that Charlie seems to take this way too far.
00:15:06
because once he starts fighting back, he seems to enjoy beating up other kids and he always plays dirty.
00:15:14
He's the type who keeps on kicking someone even when they're already down. He also develops an obsession
00:15:19
with the movie star James Dean. So if you've never seen the movie Rebel Without a Cause,
00:15:24
have you seen that movie? James Dean looks like an alien from the future in that movie,
00:15:30
whereas everybody else is very like 50s and kind of, you know, that kind of acting.
00:15:35
Button up. Yeah. And very kind of like, what do you mean, father? Or whatever. James Dean comes in and it's like he's from now going back in time.
00:15:44
Yeah. It's incredible. It's incredible. My Aunt Kathleen, God rest her soul. She was one of the coolest aunts of all time, but she made sure to show us things that she loved like that.
00:15:54
Oh, I love that. So she sat us all down when we were like in junior high and was like, you have to watch this movie.
00:16:01
So then we had posters of James Dean in our room and we're all about it. Cute. So it makes sense that kind of why he would go, that's who I'm going to be and that's what I'm going to act like.
00:16:12
So, of course, Charlie Starkweather starts smoking because James Dean smokes. He walks and talks like James Dean.
00:16:20
He wants people to see him as this kind of like rebellious bad boy. And, of course, usually that means girls.
00:16:28
So in 1956, when Charlie's 17 years old, he gets to go on a double date with his friend and his friend's girlfriend and his friend's girlfriend's younger sister.
00:16:38
That younger sister's name is Carol Ann Fugate. And she is, brace yourself, 12 years old.
00:16:45
Insane. So Carol's family also lives in Lincoln. But her early life is very difficult and unstable.
00:16:51
It's kind of awful. She grows up very poor. Her family moves around a lot. And then when she's slightly older, her father gets sent to prison after being convicted on multiple pedophilia charges.
00:17:04
So she has a very difficult early childhood. She does not do well in school. She struggles to develop close friendships.
00:17:10
And she develops a tough outer shell because of that. When she's around 10 years old, her mom, Velda, remarries a man named Marion Bartlett.
00:17:20
and by all accounts this man is a decent guy a world war ii vet who doesn't drink he becomes a
00:17:27
stable father figure for carol and for her siblings and soon after they get married her mom
00:17:33
and her new stepdad have a baby together named betty ann and carol loves this baby so carol
00:17:41
keeps her biological father's last name fugate but for the rest of this story i will call them
00:17:46
Bartlett family. So basically, Carol's childhood is finally stabilizing. She starts making friends
00:17:53
at school her grades go up and then she goes on the double date with her older sister and is introduced to Charles Starkweather Of course Carol drawn in by this bad boy reputation that he has
00:18:06
And as all bad boys do, he makes her feel like the most important girl in the world.
00:18:11
He probably doesn't have to do much. She's 12 years old. As impressionable as you possibly can be.
00:18:17
And she probably loves James Dean, too. So she's like, great. Yes, he's here. I remember one of the graduation parties we went to in this graduation party summer. I watched across the yard as basically a 12 year old girl was in a group with this boy who's 17. It was like the family, the families who's having the party. And this little girl did everything she could to get his attention, including like hitting him and blah, blah, blah and this and whatever.
00:18:47
And I was just sitting at this table being like, there's nothing you can do about being that age.
00:18:52
And there's nothing you can do about that phase of that age where you're suddenly you just are like, I love him.
00:18:58
Yeah. I need him to look at me again. Yes. I hate it. It's so humiliating. I hate it.
00:19:03
And we all do it. We all did it. We all do it. Yeah. So it's especially painful to think about her being in this situation.
00:19:11
And then what's the truth of this situation? because we actually don't know really to this day what the real truth of the situation was.
00:19:19
I have my opinions about it for sure. Well, let's hash it out. So everything changes after this double date.
00:19:26
Obviously, she's on top of the world, but Charlie's bad boy reputation is because he's a bad boy.
00:19:32
So right after this double date, he finds out Carol has a crush on another boy. So Charlie goes and threatens to kill that boy unless he stops talking to Carol.
00:19:41
Jesus. This boy's a seventh grader who's like, I'll never talk to her. What are you talking about? I'm not invested in this. So, of course, Carol's parents hate Charlie Stark, whether her stepfather, Marion, in particular, he is not polite or shy about that fact. They don't want to push Carol away. They know she's going to do whatever she wants to do.
00:20:03
So Velma and Marion have to put up with this annoying, rude James Dean fanatic just kind of hanging around their 12-year-old daughter all the time.
00:20:11
Oh, Jesus. I couldn't. And also these days, I think we know that that behavior, like everything is seen through such a different lens.
00:20:19
It's predatory now. We know that. Yeah. Not now, but we now know that it's predatory.
00:20:23
Right. And we now know that girls shouldn't maybe get married when they're 15 years old just because that's kind of what everyone is doing.
00:20:31
So it's December. It's 1957. 27 charlie and carol have been dating for about a year and a half so carol's now 14 and charlie's 19
00:20:39
he's still obsessive about her so it's the holidays and one afternoon charlie goes out
00:20:44
shopping for presents and he stops at a gas station in lincoln and it's one he hangs out at from time
00:20:50
to time he sees a stuffed dog for sale at this gas station and he wants to buy it for carol
00:20:55
he doesn't have the money so he asks the gas station attendant if he can put it on credit
00:21:01
The attendant that day is a 21-year-old man named Robert Colvert, and he says no, he can only take cash.
00:21:09
So Charlie's forced to leave empty-handed, and of course, he's furious. He's so furious that for the rest of the night, he keeps coming back to the gas station over and over.
00:21:19
The first time, he buys something small. He leaves again. He comes back. He buys something else.
00:21:24
The whole time, he's just—the anger is building. And in the last round of this, Charlie comes back to the gas station with a gun and he turns it on the cashier.
00:21:34
He demands money from the till and then he kidnaps Robert, the cashier. He drives him out to the middle of nowhere and he shoots him in the head multiple times and then dumps the body.
00:21:45
So the body's discovered just a few hours later. But for some reason, the police immediately assume a transient is responsible for this murder.
00:21:54
Right. So it's the kind of thing of like it can't happen in our town. Right. So for the next several days, a normally broke Charlie suddenly is flush with cash.
00:22:03
He's spending most of it on Carol. And at the same time, he is taking steps to cover up his crime.
00:22:09
So he reads a lot of true crime and detective magazines. He knows that he should paint his truck a different color in case any eyewitnesses saw it at the gas station that night.
00:22:20
He changes his tires so in case they take tire tracks from, you know, he does everything he can to cover it up.
00:22:27
But basically, he has now crossed a line that he can never come back from. This is robbery, kidnapping, murder, all in one move.
00:22:36
That's big. Yeah. So by late January of 1958, which is weeks after the murder of Robert Colvert, Charlie begins to unravel.
00:22:45
He gets fired from his job as a garbage man because of his laziness. He can't make rent, so he gets kicked out of his apartment.
00:22:53
Now he's sleeping in his car. Meanwhile, Carol's parents, Velda and Marion Bartlett, have had enough of Charles Starkweather.
00:23:02
There's a rumor circulating around town that Charlie got Carol pregnant. It's not true.
00:23:09
But, of course, it insinuates that Carol is having sex with Charlie and she's 14 years old.
00:23:15
What is true, though, is Charlie has begun basically stalking Carol. The Bartlets have been told Charlie waits around for Carol after school.
00:23:23
and that he's been seen forcefully pulling her off the school bus in front of other students.
00:23:31
This freaks Carol out so much. It kind of tells us she doesn't want to go with him.
00:23:35
If this was like the boyfriend, you know, like I'm jumping in the back of his car and pulling out, that's great.
00:23:41
He doesn't have to pull you out of the bus if you go willingly. Yes. So you're probably not a willing participant in this.
00:23:48
You're sneaking onto the bus so that your boyfriend doesn't see you or so that guy doesn't see you.
00:23:53
Right. So she's so freaked out by this that she starts hiding in the girl's bathroom after the end of day's...
00:24:00
bell rings just so she doesn't have to go outside. So when her parents hear about all of that,
00:24:06
they tell Charlie to stay away from their daughter. And then on Tuesday, January 21st,
00:24:11
Charlie goes over to the Bartlett home to talk to them, presumably about this relationship with
00:24:16
Carol. There's a lot of unknowns here, mostly because everything is what either Charlie said
00:24:23
or what Carol said after the fact. And it's hard to know who to trust. It's he said, she said.
00:24:28
but essentially what we do know is that charlie shows up at the bartlett's home around one o'clock
00:24:33
and he's got a gun and soon after he arrives he gets into an argument with the bartlett's who tell
00:24:40
him he can't date carol anymore they kick him out of the house he comes back at 3 p.m and he shoots
00:24:46
36 year old velda bartlett and her husband 57 year old marion bartlett before committing one of the
00:24:53
most disturbing murders in this story, he murders Carol's two-year-old sister, Betty Ann.
00:25:00
It's very upsetting. He then hides the three bodies in a chicken coop and also in an old
00:25:05
outhouse on the property. So we don't know where Carol is when these murders occur.
00:25:12
But her story is that when she gets home from school around 3.30, that's 30 minutes after the
00:25:18
murders, she's shocked to find Charlie there. And she says that Charlie tells her he's holding her
00:25:24
family hostage somewhere and he promises he won't hurt them as long as she goes with him
00:25:29
and does what he says. So Charlie's version of that same story is Carol was there the whole time
00:25:35
and she was directly involved in her family murders, which would be in 1958 insanely hard
00:25:41
to believe. Right. For police, for the press, for anyone. Like this very young girl is just going to
00:25:47
stand by. Totally. And this timeline, too, doesn't really make sense. They invited him over
00:25:51
while she was still at school. He came like right before she got home from school normally. It's
00:25:57
almost like it doesn't add up. It's tough to imagine, but it is like having heard some of
00:26:02
the stories that we've heard at this point, we know coercion is often involved when one person
00:26:06
is very young. Right. So even if she was there, it is very difficult to imagine that Carol
00:26:13
participated in her family's murders, especially her baby sister's murder. Yeah, who she adored.
00:26:19
Yeah. Or at least that there was no threat or coercion involved, that she was a willing participant.
00:26:24
Yeah. So that part of the story has been examined and analyzed and debated for more than half a century.
00:26:30
And to this day, we just don't know the truth of what happened. What we do know is that Charlie and Carol remain in the house after those murders for six days.
00:26:39
And the Bartlett's friends and family realize something is up pretty quickly because, of course, nobody sees or hears from the parents or the baby.
00:26:50
When anyone stops by to check in on their whereabouts, Carol, seemingly distressed, always just comes out of the house and just begs them to go away.
00:26:59
Eventually, a note goes up on their front door saying everyone inside has the flu and just please leave us alone.
00:27:04
And then on January 27th, which is six days after the murders, Carol's grandmother stops by. She's incredibly worried about her daughter and her grandchildren, and she begs to be let inside. Carol asks her to leave, and the grandmother is so unnerved by that that she loudly announces from the front steps she is going to call the police.
00:27:24
And when she then finally does leave, Charlie and Carol get into Charlie's truck.
00:27:29
They flee. Their only plan being get away from the possible police that might be coming.
00:27:35
And if we believe her, we think that she is cooperating and not running away or calling for help because she thinks that her family is being held hostage still.
00:27:43
Yes. So Carol's grandmother wasn't bluffing. She does call the Lincoln police. When they show up to the Bartlett home for a wellness check, the officers go inside.
00:27:52
They find the house empty. and they basically convinced themselves that the whole family just left.
00:27:57
That tells me too that like there wasn't a bloody scene. Right. You know? Yes. Because you're like, well, she had seen the gunshot.
00:28:05
Yeah. You know, carnage. If they didn't see it, she probably hadn't seen it either.
00:28:10
Yes. If she was in that house, she just, she's worried that they're being held and she wants to keep them alive.
00:28:15
Because I was like, didn't she see the like blood spatter or anything? No, maybe there wasn't any.
00:28:19
He did it outside somehow. Well, what happens is later that same day, Charlie's brother showed up because he's also worried. And he does what the cops fail to do, which is he searches the entire property. And when he does, just beyond the house, he finds the bodies of Marion Velda and Betty Ann Bartlett.
00:28:39
So now the police spring into action and they start the search for Charlie and Carol, who are, of course, long gone.
00:28:47
As Charlie and Carol drove out of Lincoln, Charlie gets his truck serviced at a local body shop.
00:28:53
And at one point, he leaves Carol in the truck as he goes to the restroom. She writes a note that says, quote, help police do not ignore.
00:29:02
But she doesn't get the chance to give it to anybody. So she puts it back in her pocket.
00:29:08
When Charlie gets back into the truck, he drives them about 20 miles outside of Lincoln to the small town of Bennett, where he pulls up onto a muddy drive that leads to a farmhouse.
00:29:18
The farmer who lives there is an old family friend of the Starkweathers named August Meyer, and he's 70 years old.
00:29:25
And on the way up this kind of muddy driveway, Charlie's truck gets stuck in the mud, and he and Carol have to get out and walk.
00:29:31
So when they get to the farmhouse, they knock on the door. August opens the door and he's happy to see Charlie.
00:29:38
He has no idea what happened back in Lincoln. All he knows is that this family friend is there just asking for help to get his truck out of the mud.
00:29:46
So according to Carol, Charlie then pulls out a gun and shoots August in the head completely unprovoked.
00:29:55
Charlie will later claim that he killed August in self Yeah So now August is dead The couple enters the farmhouse Carol stays in the kitchen while Charlie ransacks every room
00:30:07
They then head back down the road. They get the truck out of the mud with the help of an oblivious driver who just happens to be passing by.
00:30:16
And they let him go. Like, that's just like, help me get this out. Yeah. One of the luckiest people.
00:30:21
Seriously. In the area. Charlie then drives back up to August's farmhouse and he and Carol plan on staying the night but they're both so on edge with everything that's happened that they convince themselves that somehow somebody got into the house while they were down trying to get the truck unstuck from the mud.
00:30:41
And it's not true but they're so paranoid that they decide to leave and just keep driving instead of staying in the house that night.
00:30:49
Then they get the truck stuck in the mud for a second time. Now it's 630 at night. It's getting dark. It's freezing outside. They wind up ditching that truck out of pure desperation and just walking along the road, hoping someone will pass by. And sadly, around 730 p.m., two local teenagers drive by and offer Charlie and Carol a ride.
00:31:13
They are 17-year-old Robert Jensen and 16-year-old Carol King, and they're on a date.
00:31:20
I'll call her Carol Kay from the rest of this because we already have a Carol in the story.
00:31:25
So right after Charlie and Carol get into the car, Charlie pulls out his gun and tells Robert to drive back toward August Meyer's farm.
00:31:33
He then tells him to pull over and Charlie takes Robert and Carol Kay, like walks them toward an abandoned storm cellar that they had passed earlier that day. Carol will maintain that she stayed behind in Robert Jensen's car, unaware of where Charlie was taking this couple or what he planned to do with them.
00:31:53
From here, it's believed Charlie shoots and kills Robert near the storm cellar before attempting to rape Carol Kay, but she fights him off. He murders her.
00:32:03
Charlie will try to claim that Carol, his Carol, was directly involved in these murders. And in fact, Carol is the person who murdered Carol Kay.
00:32:13
What we know for certain is that Charlie and Carol eventually flee in Robert's car and they head out of the area. And as they do, Carol tosses some of Robert's school books out the window. This is kind of an infamous shot from the movie Badlands because it's this carefree like, fuck it all. We're just doing this thing. And it's presented in that movie as this kind of like, now they're a duo.
00:32:39
Yeah. But she will later say she threw those books out of the car to give the police a lead.
00:32:46
Yeah, that makes sense. It makes a lot of sense to me. So they wind up heading back toward Lincoln.
00:32:51
And at one point, they even pass by Carol's family home. Charlie is convinced that no one is going to spot them in Robert's car.
00:32:59
And when they get tired, they pull off the road and they sleep in that same car.
00:33:05
So the next morning, January 28th, it's around 8 a.m. So it's the morning after those three murders in Bennett.
00:33:12
They're back in Lincoln and Charlie's driving around looking for a place where he and Carol can hide.
00:33:18
Eventually, he decides on a mansion he'd seen working as a garbage man, which belongs to the Ward family.
00:33:24
They're a family that's very high up in Lincoln society, Lincoln, Nebraska society.
00:33:30
So Charlie pulls into the driveway and gets out with his gun. He enters the house. He basically home invades these people.
00:33:38
and he instructs 46-year-old Clara Ward and her maid, 51-year-old Lillian Fensel, to do as he says.
00:33:47
At the time, Clara's husband, 47-year-old C. Lauer Ward, is actually at a meeting with the Nebraska governor,
00:33:53
who's a good friend of his, and ironically at that meeting, the men discuss the Bartlett family murders
00:33:59
because it's the talk of Lincoln, as it would be. Yeah. So around this time over in Bennett, police find Charlie's truck stuck in the mud near the Meyer farm and officers surround that farmhouse thinking the couple is hiding out inside.
00:34:14
They then find August's dead body on the property, but they do not find, of course, Charlie or Carol.
00:34:20
and basically at the same time, Robert Jensen and Carol King's bodies are found by a local farmer
00:34:26
who had heard gunshots the night before and decided the next morning to go search
00:34:31
and see what was going on. So police don't realize that Charlie and Carol are back in Lincoln
00:34:36
or of course that they're hiding out in the ward's mansion. But they are and they are now
00:34:42
holding Clara and Lillian hostage. The women end up passing the morning by cleaning and basically serving
00:34:49
Charlie breakfast, which is kind of a pleasant way to spend the morning. And you would never know
00:34:54
that that afternoon, Clara and Lillian will be stabbed to death. Again, Charlie and Carol's
00:35:00
stories differ. Carol claims Charlie killed both women on his own. Charlie says that Carol helped
00:35:06
him kill Clara. Around 6 p.m., when C. Lauer Ward, the husband, comes home, Charlie ambushes him,
00:35:13
pushes him down the stairs, grabs his gun, and shoots him. So then Charlie gets some black shoe polish and dyes his hair.
00:35:22
Carol reportedly helps him do this. Around 7 o'clock, the couple hit the road again,
00:35:28
this time in the Ward's Packard. But before they leave, Charlie and Carol read that day's newspaper,
00:35:34
and there is an article about Carol's family being murdered. They leave this newspaper behind, but it has big holes cut out of it.
00:35:43
where photos of Charlie, Carol, and Carol's family had been printed. And these clippings will later
00:35:50
be found on the couple So the next day Wednesday January 29th is when the Ward household are discovered dead when a friend stops by to check in on the family So the police quickly link all of those murders to Charlie Starkweather and at this point they not sure Carol is even still alive
00:36:08
And when they do link all of that, reporters are right there with them. They've been diligently covering the investigation on the radio and the evening news.
00:36:17
They are running updates every day in the papers. So the public that's been watching this coverage breathlessly
00:36:23
now erupts into a full-blown panic. Every hardware store in the Lincoln area sells out of guns, ammunition, and knives.
00:36:32
Locals are forming posses, and they're sitting up on their own roofs, hoping that they see Charlie Starkweather
00:36:38
and are able to shoot and kill him before he gets to their house. Terrifying. Insane.
00:36:44
According to the Nebraska State Historical Society, quote, thousands of Lincoln residents
00:36:50
open their garage doors and leave the keys to their cars readily accessible so that if Charlie Starkweather comes by, he can just take the car and go.
00:36:59
By one o'clock that Wednesday, Charlie and Carol make it 500 miles away to Douglas, Wyoming.
00:37:06
So by now, the news of their crime spree has spread across the Midwest. They use the car's radio to follow along.
00:37:13
And this is how they learn that a reporter has now identified the Ward's Packard as their getaway vehicle.
00:37:20
So Charlie knows he has to switch cars again. He pulls onto a back road, and eventually he comes across a Buick parked on the roadside.
00:37:29
He and Carol figure that they're going to ditch the Ward's car and drive off in the Buick,
00:37:33
but its owner, 37-year-old traveling shoe salesman named Merle Collison, is sleeping inside that Buick.
00:37:40
Charlie shoots him through the car window nine times. Charlie will later claim Carol is the one who murdered Merle after Charlie's gun jammed, which Carol, of course, denies.
00:37:53
Shortly after Merle is murdered, a driver named Joe Sprinkle passes and stops when he sees two cars on the roadside.
00:38:01
He thinks maybe there's car trouble going on that he could help with, which, of course, is true,
00:38:06
because it turns out that Merle's car has its parking brake activated and Charlie's never dealt with a parking brake before.
00:38:13
so he thinks he can't make the car go. Oh, dear. Yes. So Charlie tells Joe that he needs help turning the brake off
00:38:22
and then brandishes his gun. Joe suddenly now has a weapon pointed at him, notices Carol is sobbing in the backseat of Merle's car.
00:38:31
Then he sees Merle's dead body in the car's front seat. So he instinctively grabs Charlie's gun.
00:38:37
The two fight over it for several minutes. Right there on the highway, before a local deputy sheriff named William Romer drives basically into their brawl.
00:38:48
When Carol sees Romer coming, she jumps out of the backseat of the Buick into his cop car, sobbing and screaming,
00:38:56
it's stark weather, he's going to kill me. See, this is the moment that I can't get past
00:39:01
if you're going to try to blame her in any way. Right? People do. Okay. Well, completely, because this is like,
00:39:10
if she is screaming and sobbing yeah then it's been against her well this entire time right and
00:39:15
that witness saying she's crying in the back seat right if she didn't start crying until the cop came
00:39:21
yes and that's like a show yeah if she was doing it and the witness says so beforehand it's like
00:39:25
yes it says a lot right she couldn't have been planning a like well if this guy lives i have to
00:39:30
make sure like because that's not what's been happening right yeah also i always think like
00:39:35
people when they lie do a lot of matchy things where it's just kind of like the sherry pepini
00:39:40
thing where it's like an old lady with long hair and a young lady with short hair. Like people do
00:39:45
a thing where their imagination, if limited, really gives them away in lying. So yeah, I think you'd
00:39:52
have to be masterful to kind of do that and be convincing. And she's a young girl from a small
00:39:57
town. I highly doubt that she has his capabilities. So the second Charlie sees the sheriff, he throws
00:40:05
himself into the wards packard and joe sprinkle takes cover in a ditch thinking there's going to
00:40:10
be a gunfight and that's when charlie hits the gas and then he's chased by deputy sheriff roamer
00:40:16
and two other patrol cars in a high speed chase through the badlands where they top speeds of 120
00:40:23
miles an hour oh my god in old cars yeah this chase goes on for about 20 minutes and then one
00:40:30
of the officers fires a shot that shatters Charlie's windshield and sends glass shards into
00:40:35
his face and they cut his ear. It is not a serious wound, but the officers will later say Charlie,
00:40:42
quote, thought he was bleeding to death. That's why he stopped. So when he's arrested, Charlie does
00:40:48
not hold back. He confesses to every murder. He goes all the way back to the gas station attendant,
00:40:53
Robert Colvert. Carol's also taken into custody and she's interrogated for hours. She ultimately
00:40:59
gives a statement that's 166 pages long. It's filled with incriminating information about her
00:41:07
involvement in the crimes. But she is 14 years old. She has no lawyer. She has no parents.
00:41:14
Does she know her family's dead yet? Because they tell her when she gets to the police station,
00:41:19
right? I believe so. I'm not sure specifically when she's told, but she does start screaming
00:41:24
for her dead mother that night and refuses to let anyone near her and ultimately has to be sedated.
00:41:31
So she is informed, but I think it takes place at the police station. Yeah. During her trial, Carol insists that Charlie was the only person who committed any of these
00:41:41
murders and she maintains she believed Charlie was holding her hostage under the threat of killing
00:41:47
her family if she didn't obey him. That suggests she believed her family was alive the entire time.
00:41:53
Yeah The prosecution points out that the newspaper clippings she and Charlie took from the ward house explicitly reported that her mom dad and sister were dead and they did cut the pictures out
00:42:05
So that means that either he did it and didn't show her. Right. Which is possible because that's why you would cut those pictures out.
00:42:12
Yeah, that one's harder. Hard to say. In May 1958, Charlie Starkweather is sentenced to death after being convicted for the murder of Robert Jensen, which is the only case he's tried for.
00:42:23
He dies in the electric chair a year later when he's 20 years old. He couldn't even drink.
00:42:29
Oh, my God. He declines to give any last words. Carol Fugate, meanwhile, is handed a life sentence for her role in Robert Jensen's murder.
00:42:37
She is the youngest person to receive a first-degree murder conviction at the time.
00:42:42
To this day, her role in the case is seen as very complicated and thorny, with many people believing that she is as guilty as Charles Starkweather,
00:42:51
Although over the years, other people have come to see Carol as a true victim who was forced to participate in this crime spree by a man who was her stalker, was her abuser, and basically stunned her into compliance after murdering her whole family.
00:43:06
That just seems more reasonable. Like, the idea that these two people found each other and were both just on a killing spree together and she's 14.
00:43:17
It's just what makes more sense. Right. You know what I mean? And I know that that exists.
00:43:21
That's happened before in life, you know, but I just can't I can't see that happening in this story.
00:43:27
I don't see it here. Yeah, I agree completely, especially with like all the things that we have talked about where it's like it's not like they fell in love and dated.
00:43:34
And then like three years later, he snapped or something. And like the parents were going to keep them apart.
00:43:39
Like she didn't want to be with him. No. To begin with. No, she was hiding from him in the bathroom.
00:43:45
Her agency and autonomy is completely gone from the beginning of this relationship.
00:43:49
Right. So as author Harry McLean has said, quote, the idea that someone could be so traumatized that they would be incapable of exercising free will in subsequent traumatic situations that didn't exist back then.
00:44:03
Yeah. Whereas now we've seen it. We've been able to talk about it. There's plenty of examples.
00:44:09
Yeah. So Carol begins her sentence at 15 years old and she spends the next 17 years behind bars serving as a model prisoner because of her sterling prison record. She's paroled in 1976 at the age of 32. Wow. I mean, if she was a part of that, there would have been problems.
00:44:26
Yeah. Yeah. And nowadays, when you're convicted as a minor, you don't spend the rest of your life. I hear you.
00:44:34
I just think it would have been like, then she was in some fights and she had to get put over here. It wouldn't have been like somebody who's just.
00:44:41
Yeah. But we've talked about real monsters being model prisoners before. Oh, that's true. Because Judy Buonano, the black widow killer, who killed every man in her life, was everyone's grandma in prison.
00:44:54
Right. I think prison works for some people. Yeah, that's true. But I agree, but I'm just playing double-sided.
00:45:01
Yeah, very true. Well, because if the possibility that she was as manipulative as the kind of girl who could run out of that car crying, going, please save me, then, yeah, she would be playing.
00:45:12
Again, she would just be playing it to her benefit. Totally. So when she gets out of prison, she moves to Michigan, where she lives a mostly quiet life under a new name, working in health care and as a nanny to two children who adore her.
00:45:25
Truly starts over. Wow. In the middle of her life. Over the years, Carol has continued to insist that she was an unwitting participant in the murder spree.
00:45:33
She's now around 80 years old, and she hopes to someday have her name cleared with a full pardon.
00:45:40
Wow. If she truly is a victim of this abusive relationship, I mean... What a tragedy.
00:45:46
What a tragedy if that never happens for her. Yeah. But how can you prove it aside from we just have to believe her or not believe her?
00:45:54
Right. I think that the evidence overwhelmingly points to her not being a willing participant.
00:46:00
No. But that's just our big fat opinion. That's just what we believe. Right. We believe her.
00:46:06
Right. Yeah. Yeah. That's the story of the 1958 crime spree of Charlie Starkweather and Carol Fugate that terrorized the Midwest.
00:46:13
Wow. Great job. I can't believe we haven't covered that. There's so many of these stories that, especially in the early days, we used to talk and talk at the beginning about other true crime things and then get into it.
00:46:24
Yeah. So we've definitely talked about it. That's crazy. And the movie Badlands is so gorgeous just to watch a movie.
00:46:31
I can't believe when I was like 13, the movie Matt Turbohan Killers was just an okay movie for us to watch.
00:46:37
it's so disturbing it's so disturbing you would never show a teenager that now no it's so fucked
00:46:43
up it was a very toxic time back yeah and it was our favorite movie it wasn't just like oh that's
00:46:49
disturbing we loved it we thought it was so romantic and beautiful and poetic and real it's
00:46:57
This is fucking garbage. I wonder if Tarantino pitched Natural Born Killers as like, let's do the whenever it was 90s or early 2000s.
00:47:10
Let's revamp Badlands and make it now and modern and sexy and neon or whatever. Yeah, I think it was early 90s.
00:47:17
Yeah. It's so disturbing. Yeah. Well, there you have it. Well, there it is. Good job.
00:47:22
Thank you. Great job. Oh, thanks. My turn. This is another story that's like a little frustrating.
00:47:33
Perfect. Sorry about that. The perfect pair. Right. We're going to Japan today. Beautiful Japan.
00:47:42
And in Japan, although they've become much more rare, it is one of only two G7 countries that has the death penalty.
00:47:52
Guess what the other one is? America. That's right. It's one of Japan's longest legal battles.
00:47:56
It's very famous there. And where there are people sentenced to death there are usually also people who have been wrongfully convicted, as we know.
00:48:06
This is the story of Japan's longest-serving death row inmate and the decades-long fight for his freedom.
00:48:13
This is the story of Iwao Hakamada. The main sources for the story are reporting by the Japanese newspaper, the Asahi Shimbun,
00:48:22
which translates to The Daily Sun, and the rest can be found in our show notes. So I'm going to do my best with these pronunciations.
00:48:28
Oh, yeah. So apologies in advance. Okay, so it's 1966 and we're in Shizyoka, Japan.
00:48:35
Yeah, that was amazing. Thank you. A coastal city about two hours southeast of Tokyo.
00:48:41
You've never been to Japan, right? No, never been. God, someday. So this guy Iwao Hakamata is a 30-year-old retired boxer and he works in a miso factory.
00:48:50
The factory is owned by a man named Fujiya Hashimoto, who is 41, and Iwao also does work in the Hashimoto family home, and he lives in the home with them.
00:49:03
Fujiya's wife is named Chieko, and the couple have two teenage children, a daughter named Fujiko and a son named Masaishiru.
00:49:11
So at about 2 a.m. in the morning on June 30th, 1966, neighbors notice a fire in one of the upstairs rooms in the Hashimoto house.
00:49:20
When firefighters report to the scene, they find Iwo working to put out the fire.
00:49:25
As they're doing this, Iwo and the firefighters discover the bodies of the entire Hashimoto family,
00:49:32
the husband, wife, and two teenagers, and discover that they had each been killed before the fire was started.
00:49:38
Each member of the family had been stabbed multiple times. It's awful. The house is badly burned.
00:49:45
It smells heavily of gasoline. and investigators recover a pair of pajamas from Ewao's room.
00:49:50
It sounds like he was not wearing them when the firefighters found him, though this detail later becomes a little muddy.
00:49:57
Investigators say the pajamas have a very small blood stain on them, and it's later discovered that about 80,000 yen has been taken from the house,
00:50:05
which in today's money, I'm not going to make you guess, would be about 200 U.S. dollars,
00:50:11
some say 550, but just not a lot of money to brutally murder an entire family. over. Initially, investigators say they don't know if this crime was committed by one person
00:50:21
or more than one person, but because four different people were each stabbed multiple times and
00:50:26
neighbors didn't hear anything, even though they were pretty close, some people think it had to be
00:50:31
done by multiple attackers, which, I mean, that's not totally true. Look at the BTK killer. It's
00:50:37
just a matter of power, overpowering. Yeah, planning and power and... Planning, fear,
00:50:42
overpower you. And also if it was everybody stabbed multiple times, that feels to me like
00:50:48
an emotional attack, right? Yeah. It's like not like a hit where it would be clean and
00:50:55
the children probably wouldn't be involved, right? Yeah. Yeah. So none of the neighbors
00:50:59
report hearing the attack, although one neighbor does report hearing a scream. It's unclear exactly how, but suspicion winds up falling on EWOW. It's possible that this is
00:51:09
because there's already some prejudice against him because of his history as a boxer, which is
00:51:14
frowned upon in Japan by some people, which is interesting. Additionally, Iwao is one of the few
00:51:20
employees of the factory that's not originally from that small area. So he's from a different
00:51:25
city called Hamamatsu. And so maybe because of that, he's not trusted. Either way, Iwao is
00:51:32
arrested and is then subject to 20 days of interrogation without a lawyer present. The
00:51:39
interrogations are about 12 hours each day. He's not given access to a bathroom. He's beaten on
00:51:45
multiple occasions. And it's only at the end of these 20 days of the interrogation that Iwau
00:51:51
finally confesses to the murder, which we all know a 20-day, 12-hour-a-day beating.
00:52:00
That's coercion in any country. You can't believe that confession anymore, right?
00:52:05
Yeah. Despite supposedly having sat in a tank of fermenting miso for over a year.
00:52:42
That's kind of hard to believe that they would have these red stains on them to begin with, right?
00:52:47
Especially when you're like, he was wearing these pajamas. We found blood on the pajamas.
00:52:50
Never mind. It's just absurd. Yeah. Ewao's case goes to trial in 1967. During the trial, Ewao says the recovered clothes look like his, but they're the wrong size.
00:53:01
Also, he has written his name and all his clothes to identify them for the laundry service he uses.
00:53:05
He puts the clothes on during the trial, and it's clear that they are too small for him.
00:53:10
They don't fit. Throughout the process, Iwao, though, shows unshakable faith in the judicial system.
00:53:17
He's like, there's no way they can convict me. This is clearly bad evidence. There's no evidence that I did this.
00:53:23
He just believes in this legal system. And in that Japanese legal system at the time, there's no jury.
00:53:29
That's since changed. but then three judges would vote to decide on a verdict. The proceedings are secret at the time,
00:53:36
but we now know that two of the judges voted to convict and one voted to acquit.
00:53:41
And so in 1968, at the age of 32, with just that flimsy evidence, Iwao is pronounced guilty and he's sentenced to death.
00:53:49
And six months after the conviction one of the judges and we now know that it the one who wanted to acquit he retires from the bar I think he a little bit like this
00:53:59
That's the last I want my hands in something like this. So both of Iwa's parents pass away in the immediate months following his conviction.
00:54:07
So this is rough. Death row inmates in Japan at the time are always kept in solitary confinement.
00:54:13
My God. And a hallmark of the Japanese penal system is that death row inmates have no idea when they are scheduled to be executed.
00:54:22
So they wake up in the morning and between 8 a.m. and 830, they'll be told whether or not they're being put to death.
00:54:31
So he's got solitary confinement and every morning wakes up thinking this could be it.
00:54:36
So that's going to drive you a little mad. Yeah. Right. Yeah. Another hallmark of the Japanese legal system is that very few convictions are ever reviewed.
00:54:46
There's no appeals going on. And those reviews can take decades. And this is what happens to Iwao.
00:54:51
Over the coming decades, he makes multiple appeals. Each one moves at a grindingly slow pace before it's ultimately denied.
00:55:00
In 1973, Iwao writes, quote, I'm a prisoner on death row who has been wrongfully convicted.
00:55:06
I am forced to live by enduring grief permeating all of my body. My heart sometimes grows cold beyond description out of unending fear of the unknown execution.
00:55:16
My whole body trembles as if being hit by cold winter blasts. End quote. So. Not cool.
00:55:24
Horrifying, but also a very accurate description of like constant stress. And fear.
00:55:29
Yeah. Where you're just like, it's like these waves of physical pain and then just like, I'm going to shut down now.
00:55:37
Yeah. Yeah. Over the years he spends in solitary confinement, he writes frequent letters to his older sister, a woman named Hideko Hakamata.
00:55:46
She is like his biggest champion, and she notices a distinct change in him as the years go by, of course.
00:55:52
She says that his letters eventually descend into gibberish the longer he spends in prison.
00:55:58
Fast forward to the 2000s. Amnesty International takes on Iwau's case, and it becomes much more famous both in Japan and abroad.
00:56:07
And in fact, Reuben Carter, a.k.a. The Hurricane from the Bob Dylan song. This is the story of the hurricane.
00:56:15
Also that movie, man, that is a good movie. Right. With Denzel. Right. Yeah. So he was also a wrongfully convicted boxer.
00:56:22
And so he takes on the he starts speaking out on the case as well. Oh, wow. Pretty incredible.
00:56:27
Yes, that's right. He had been wrongfully convicted and in prison for murder. He had spent 18 years and four months in prison.
00:56:33
So he starts speaking out about the case as well. Wow. So it gets that attention it needs.
00:56:37
Then the Japanese Professional Boxing Association organizes a special charity fight to raise money for Iwau's defense.
00:56:45
The actor Jeremy Irons, who's a supporter of Amnesty International, also speaks out on behalf of Iwau.
00:56:51
All the while Hideko is the go-between, advocating for her brother, fighting for his release, and acting as his voice in the outside world.
00:57:00
At this point, Iwau and Hideko are in their 70s. So this has been his whole life.
00:57:06
His whole life. Wow. OK, so 2007, the judge who retired after convicting Iwao, a man named Norimichi Kumamoto, tells the press that he had not believed that Iwao was guilty.
00:57:19
I mean, this has to be unprecedented, him coming forward with this. And he had been the one to vote against the other two judges.
00:57:25
And speaking out comes at a very high personal cost for Norimichi. It's considered very taboo for a judge to reveal what happened in their closed door voting process.
00:57:34
but he stands firm and says, quote, I'm glad I spoke up. I wish I had said it earlier and maybe something might have changed, end quote.
00:57:43
So Norimichi joins the growing movement to secure a new trial for Iwao. This movement also sheds light on problems in the Japanese criminal justice system,
00:57:52
the secretiveness of both investigations and the judicial process, the impunity with which the police are able to operate,
00:57:59
and the relative frequency of death sentences at the time. At the time Iwa was arrested and for decades after, Japanese convictions were heavily reliant on confessions, no matter what interrogation methods are used.
00:58:12
And prosecutors had a conviction rate of close to 100 percent. Wow. Which is not, that just looks bad.
00:58:19
That's just not real. No. Yeah. It's not realistic. Yeah. Death sentences have become much rarer in Japan in the past 20 years.
00:58:28
But as I said, Japan and the United States are the only two of the G7 countries that still have the death penalty.
00:58:34
So in 2008, Japan begins introducing a jury system into its criminal trials. Now decisions are made by that same panel of three judges, but also with six people who are called lay judges, and they serve a similar function to an American jury.
00:58:49
In 2014, when Ewa was 78 years old, his lawyers finally managed to get the blood on the clothes DNA tested.
00:58:59
The blood was already known not to match any of the victims, and the DNA also does not match Ewa's.
00:59:06
He's finally granted a retrial, and he's released from prison. He had been on death row for 46 years.
00:59:13
Fuck, and in solitary for that long? Yeah, so he's the longest serving death row inmate ever.
00:59:19
Wow. I know. He's technically still considered to be on death row, but he's serving his sentence at home due to his declining health. And at this point, Iwao is possibly showing signs of dementia. And he doesn't believe reporters when they tell him he's being granted a new trial. I mean, it's his entire life. He's just completely given up.
00:59:37
Right. Why would it change? Iwa goes to live with his sister, Hideko, who has been fighting tirelessly for his release for decades.
00:59:44
At this point Hideko is about 80 years old herself As both siblings get older a group of volunteers from the neighborhood help both of them with their tasks of daily living
00:59:54
And she says that her brother is always anxious around strangers. So after years of back and forth in the legal system, Iwao is finally retried in 2024 at the age of 88.
01:00:06
Oh, my God. This makes his retrial only the fifth in Japan's post-war history. Whoa.
01:00:13
Yeah, five since 45. His lawyers present the evidence of his coarse confession, the DNA evidence, and also some additional evidence.
01:00:22
They recreate the storage of bloodstained clothes in a miso tank for a year and a half.
01:00:28
After a short time in the miso, the bloodstains turn black because of the chemical reactions.
01:00:34
It's just basically showing that there's no way that this was real. Yeah. Yeah. At the end of his trial, Iwao's conviction is overturned.
01:00:44
He had been wrongfully convicted for 56 years. Hideko says, quote, When the judge said that the defendant is not guilty in court, the judge's voice sounded divine.
01:00:53
I was so moved and happy that I burst into tears, end quote. Iwao was awarded the equivalent of $1.4 million by the Japanese government, which is basically $85 for each day he spent wrongfully in prison.
01:01:07
Yeah. God. That's rough. And the current head of the Shizuoka police also visits Iwau to formally apologize to him.
01:01:15
Iwau is now 89 years old and Hideko is 92. They still live together. Hideko says that her brother's very quiet and mostly lives in his own world.
01:01:24
But she's overjoyed that his nightmare is finally over and she continues to speak out against the death penalty.
01:01:30
She says, quote, I used to accept the death penalty without giving it much thought.
01:01:34
But after what happened with Iwau, I became against the death penalty. It is a crime for a human being to kill another human being no matter what the government says, end quote.
01:01:43
The murder of the Hashimoto family, meanwhile, has sadly never been solved. And there's really no meaningful work that's been done on it.
01:01:51
So it's just seems like a cold case at this point. I couldn't find anything. So like basically all the work went into trying to get this person convicted and just like making it all go away.
01:02:01
Right. And that's the news. If you look up this case of this family being murdered, you find this story.
01:02:07
God. And there's someone out there that did it. And like for a reason that they just didn't find. So frustrating about these goddamn cases.
01:02:17
I know. I know. And that is a story of the exoneration of Iwao Hakamata, Japan's longest serving death row prisoner.
01:02:26
That's unbelievable. Yeah. And so moving. I know. That the hurricane got in there to fight.
01:02:31
I know. God. Yeah. And there's just an old man now. Yeah. I wonder who did it. Like, that's the thing I want to know so bad, you know?
01:02:39
Yeah. How do we fix that? How do we on this podcast? We who know nothing of the justice system.
01:02:46
But like, how does that get fixed in the future? That has to get fixed in the future.
01:02:51
I think that's why we talk about it. Yeah. Because so many people, I mean, the whole thing of like, true crime being exploitative and being all these things, it's like, that's not the point.
01:03:02
The point is like, bringing attention to these miscarriages of justice. Yeah. To victims that don't have their name for cold cases that are just completely being ignored.
01:03:13
Yeah. That's what we're here for. Yeah, I think it is. You're right. It's kind of the pointing back to like, well, there is a public responsibility if this is your community, if these are your people. And there are so many amazing stories like that where it's like the people who had happened near them or to someone they know or to their own family. So they just dedicate their lives to doing something about it.
01:03:35
And then there are people who are dedicating their lives, even though they don't know people.
01:03:40
But I don't know. It's like all these realizations that everyone's having right now about like the industrial prison complex on this planet.
01:03:49
Yeah. The nightmare. You have to point at it if you want it to be seen. You can't look away.
01:03:54
Right. Unfortunately. And you can't look just where the man wants you to look. Other people have to point.
01:04:01
Definitely. And we are not the man. We swear. We never have been and we never will be.
01:04:07
Great job. Thank you. That's an interesting story. You took me all the way to Japan to frustrate me about this.
01:04:16
You're like, hey, guess what? Injustice is everywhere. I know. And it's like, this is a cold case, but look over here.
01:04:22
Yeah. Sorry. But I mean, amazing if in three years you're like, wait, guess what?
01:04:27
Got solved. They found it. They found him. That'd be amazing. It's yet another installment of Honking Hoorays presented by Hyundai.
01:04:45
Get it? We're in a car honking. If you want to go first. Sure. Okay, it's from her email.
01:04:49
It says, hey ladies, my hooray is after finalizing my divorce yesterday. I found my first ever therapist today.
01:04:55
Hey. That's all. That's the whole email. Love you, Haley. Haley, within 24 hours, you nailed it.
01:05:02
Epic. Big steps. Incredible job. Okay, here's my first one also from email. The subject line is, this year has been a doozy.
01:05:12
Agreed. Okay, so it starts, I left an eight plus year relationship at the start of the year, became a first time homeowner,
01:05:19
and am preparing to live alone for the first time ever at the age of 36. All of this while working a full time job, part time job, and working toward my first degree.
01:05:28
Wow, I feel lazy. This semester has been a real challenge but I just submitted my final exam and managed to maintain a 4 and keep my status on the Dean List What And then in all caps it says hooray and then it just says CJ CJ how are you that smart and together Yeah
01:05:49
And in a doozy year, that's what you can achieve. Good job. Incredible. Everybody aim for CJ level.
01:05:55
Okay, it's from our email. It says, Hey, hey and hooray. My sweet baby Owen was born with multiple
01:06:01
severe and life-threatening congenital heart defects. While this warrior just turned six months old,
01:06:07
he's battled more in his short life than most of us will ever face and he smiles through it all
01:06:12
while sucking his toes docs didn't think there was much they could do but he has fought since
01:06:18
the moment he was born he'll undergo his second open heart surgery this summer you ladies have
01:06:23
been with me since junior year of college in 2016 you've helped me through finals big moves
01:06:29
pandemic zoom meetings wedding planning pregnancy and now learning to be a heart mom i love you both
01:06:35
and the whole Exactly Right team, Cassandra B. Wow. I know. Owen's a fighter. Yeah.
01:06:40
That's incredible. Thank you, Cassandra. Yes. Stay strong. Okay, this email says,
01:06:46
Hello. My hooray is, at the ripe old age of 54.8 years old, I will graduate with my Doctor of Nursing practice degree
01:06:54
from Vanderbilt University. Holy. So many people are so, like, smart and college-y
01:07:01
that listen to this podcast. Guys, what are you doing? They're two kind of lazy people.
01:07:07
I mean, they're like, okay, as a DNP, we are considered the top 1% of nursing in the U.S.
01:07:14
Wow. That's good to know. However, I must toot my own horn and take this one step further.
01:07:19
Usually nurse practitioners have one, maybe two specialties. I have four specialty certifications, acute care, emergency, family, and women's health.
01:07:28
And just 10 days after graduation, I will start my journey towards my midwifery certification.
01:07:33
with our country not recognizing women for our worth we need all the strong women providers we
01:07:39
can get that's very true thank you for all of your support and helping us smile through these crazy
01:07:45
times much love to y'all and remember no one got here without the help of a woman tammy these are
01:07:53
amazing incredible tammy wow so many certifications i know so many degrees it's wild yeah so we're
01:08:02
very proud of you yeah thank you this is from youtube my last one okay hi ladies my hooray is
01:08:08
that i moved out of my parents house again at 37 and i'm learning not to sweat all the small things
01:08:14
your show continues to fill my ear balls as i put my new place together between packing and
01:08:19
unpacking building new furniture and decor and cleaning up after myself thank you ladies and
01:08:24
my favorite human chelsea who not only got me hooked on you lovely gals but who is also on an
01:08:29
amazing glow-up journey of her own to be a badass independent woman. Hoorays to all of us for staying steady or stubbornly and doggedly determined to keep
01:08:38
on keeping on. Stay sexy and salute to fellow male feminists, Alex, he, him, his.
01:08:45
Wow, Alex. Thanks, Alex. A boy showing up in the chat. I love it. I love using your hooray to shout out someone else.
01:08:51
I know. That's pretty cool. Wow. Alex really has it all. Ready? Okay, this next one.
01:08:58
Like this Hyundai. Like the Ionic 5. This is from our email. It says, My hooray is that today for the first time, I met fellow murderinos, quote unquote, in the wild.
01:09:09
I started a new job as a heart transplant coordinator nurse three weeks ago. How is everyone so good and smart?
01:09:16
So weird. While taking a short break today, I made a comment about an old crumple-ass post-it note that was taped onto a rolling cart full of file folders.
01:09:25
I said, cue Karen's old-timey voice, that post-it note has been there for 25 years.
01:09:32
Seconds later, I received a message from a co-worker a couple of cubicles down. The message read, can I ask you something weird?
01:09:40
The best question ever. Long ellipsis, and then it says, do you listen to my favorite murder?
01:09:46
Before she could finish her sentence, I excitedly wrote back, OMG, yes, are you a murderino too?
01:09:51
we simultaneously rolled our chairs backwards out of our cubicles turning toward each other
01:09:56
while squealing. I shouted I'm a Karen while she proceeded to tell me that she had listened to the
01:10:02
entire podcast from start to finish three times. Good God. See someone. Please. Get help. Moments
01:10:10
later a second and third co-worker popped out of their respective cubicles to tell me they listened
01:10:14
to. Oh hell yeah we took over this office. Yeah. I was over the moon excited to have that murderino
01:10:19
connection with not one two but three amazing ladies I share an office with when you start to tour again we are already planning to see you in Chicago
01:10:27
or Milwaukee or both so stay sexy and use your old-timey Karen voice whenever you can you never know when it will lead you to new friends Megan that's so
01:10:38
awesome that's amazing it's all the nurses yay everybody in an office that is so hooray you guys thank you for writing in thank you for listening to
01:10:46
the honking hoorays. Thank you, Hyundai, for helping us present these honking hoorays to you.
01:10:51
And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie? Ah!
01:11:16
myfavoritemurder at gmail.com. Follow the show on Instagram at myfavoritemurder.
01:11:20
Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:11:25
And now you can watch us on Exactly Right's YouTube page. While you're there, please like and subscribe.
01:11:30
Goodbye.