00:00:00
This is exactly right. and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
00:00:36
In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins, but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax.
00:00:43
You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct? I doctored the test once.
00:00:49
It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern. Two more men who'd been through the same thing.
00:00:56
Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini. My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped.
00:01:02
Laura, Scottsdale Police. As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences.
00:01:09
Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:01:15
How much do you weigh, Wanda? Right now, I'm about 130. I'm at 183. We should race.
00:01:19
No, I want to leave here with my original hips. On the podcast to match up with L'Aleah, I pair prominent female athletes with unexpected guests.
00:01:26
On a recent episode, I sat down with undisputed boxing champ, Clarissa Shields and comedian Wanda Sykes to talk about Wanda's new movie,
00:01:33
Undercard, the art of trash talk and what it really means to be ladylike. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search the matchup with Aaliyah and listen now.
00:01:40
Brought to you by Novartis, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports Network. Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.
00:02:03
Every Wednesday, we recap our old podcasts with all new commentary, updates and insights.
00:02:09
And today we're recapping the epic episode 53, which we named pretty spot on, right on the nose, Live at the Orpheum.
00:02:19
It's kind of crazy that this episode is coming out mere days after we announce our tour.
00:02:23
The plan we made eight years ago is finally coming together. It's coming to fruition. We are geniuses.
00:02:30
This episode came out on January 26, 2017. Let's listen to the intro, everyone, of episode 53.
00:02:42
Oh, yeah. Come on. Thank you Very, very loud A little bit too loud You got it What'd you say?
00:03:08
It's a little too loud It was a little bit too loud It says bananas I'm so glad you guys didn't go to the marches
00:03:17
And came here instead Thank you Hey, it's pretty cool that we decided to do our live first huge live LA show
00:03:28
on the same day that the revolution started. Am I right? Yeah. Hi. Hi. It started.
00:03:41
One dad is like, wait, where the fuck am I? Yeah, wake up, dad. It started. Fucking see you.
00:03:50
Madonna said fuck on CNN. It started. You know, that's been the cue that we've all been waiting for this whole time.
00:03:59
Man. That's my Madonna. That's the Madonna I remember. Oh, that's Karen. And that's Georgia.
00:04:08
Hi. And we're My Favorite Murder. Stupid. That's stupid. Let's never do that again.
00:04:19
Well, we never introduce ourselves. I know, we never say we're my favorite murderer.
00:04:23
That's super lame. Okay, I'm going to fall. Like, there's a weird... Let's move this over.
00:04:30
Let's go ahead and just take five minutes to make this our own space. So thank you guys so much.
00:04:35
Whoa, whoa, whoa. All right, here we go. Let's do a... Okay. I guess... Tell me.
00:04:44
I guess of all the signs I saw today, the one I saw that I love the best was the one with a picture of Ruth Bader Ginsburg
00:04:54
did you see that one? no where it was like all you fives better listen when a ten is talking
00:05:02
oh my god yeah that's right fuck dude there's a new rating system and I couldn't be happier
00:05:14
holy shit There were a lot of good signs today. I think one of being, like a guy was holding up a sign that was just like,
00:05:21
I have nothing to say because I'm sick of hearing men talk. Thank you. Oh, come on.
00:05:29
So many tweets and responses. Call and response, but it's sweet. So many things.
00:05:36
How are you feeling, Karen? I don't. Let's get deep. Okay, look, here's the truth.
00:05:41
This is the dress I wore to the New York live show. Some of you may recognize it.
00:05:46
I didn't know. Yeah, I have to tell on myself. I pay attention to myself. I actually might have worn this something,
00:05:53
and I just don't remember. Well let stand up and let take a look at it No Do a walk Let both do a walk No no It fun Just walk it out No Okay I will because look
00:06:07
Look. Okay. The only reason I'm doing this is because if my sister saw the shoes I was wearing with this dress,
00:06:14
she would be so livid at me. She's always like, take the time. Buy a $250 shoe. You deserve it.
00:06:23
What the fuck is wrong with it? Let's like onesie twosies pass each other. One, two, three, four.
00:06:28
My sister's actually... Fives better listen when these tens are talking. And by that I mean the size of my shoe.
00:06:42
That's right. I bought a size too big at Target because they didn't have nines. I mean, sometimes you just gotta...
00:06:49
My feet are broken because when I was younger I was like, size six looks cuter than size seven.
00:06:55
I know. My actual real life sister is here. No, don't. No, fuck her. Let's get a spotlight on her.
00:07:04
She put a Barbie at my head. That's right. Lee, you mother. Lee. Hey. She made you who you are today.
00:07:14
She did. A broken human being. Lee, I love you. You're the best. Here we go. You have the best kid I've ever met in my life.
00:07:22
Well, I do have a present for you. Oh my god, why? You can't keep sneaking presents at me.
00:07:30
I certainly can. This one is the best because the last episode we talked about, I talked about going to see Golden Girls Live,
00:07:39
which is the best show ever. Yes. That's right. Let's cheer for everything. Casitas Del Campo, Drew Joji, Jackie Beat, Sherry Vine, Sam Pancake.
00:07:49
Casitas Del Campo. everyone after the party after party go there yeah it'll be the after after party they're closed
00:07:56
we'll stand around on the party mom um but so i told georgia that at the end of the last podcast
00:08:04
and then she told me about the mug they make um and it is a mug that has the guest of the golden
00:08:12
girls live on it so it's all those guys dressed up like their characters in the golden girls and
00:08:17
on the other side of the mug. One side is that picture and the other side, it says, thank you
00:08:22
for being a cunt. And you did not. Well, here's the thing. So Georgia was like, I, she told me
00:08:31
about that mug, but I had already bought her the mug at that live show, but then had second thoughts
00:08:39
because I was like, wait, is she going to think I'm passively aggressively calling her a cunt?
00:08:44
like, oh, here. Thanks for being a cunt. No, I don't think that deeply. Okay, good.
00:08:49
Then here. Thanks for being a cunt. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. What if I just went
00:08:55
and smashed it? Oh, my God. It's anarchy tonight, ladies and gentlemen. I am a cunt,
00:09:03
and I'm proud of it. Yeah, me too. It's fun. Oh, how do you feel about people who bring their babies
00:09:09
to protests? I don't give a shit about anything. The world is about to blow up. You can fucking bring a dead body to a protest.
00:09:18
Just show up. Show up. Love it. Love it. Sorry, that was a strong reaction. Love it, live it.
00:09:25
I haven't had any protein in a couple hours. I'm about to go off. I'm doing this.
00:09:32
Yeah, girl. It might have dust in it. No, because I actually, in thinking I shouldn't give it to you,
00:09:41
I ran it through the washing machine. I mean the dishwasher. Oh, God. Really? That's so thoughtful.
00:09:48
Oh, because you were going to keep it. I was going to keep it. I was going to keep it.
00:09:52
Great. Thank you. I was going to keep it and then imagine my chills when you were like, they have this mug.
00:09:58
And I was like, what? A fake what? Oh, that sounds so weird. Well, thank you. That's so kind of you.
00:10:07
You're welcome. We were going to, Karen was like, let's bring signs out. And I was like, what kind of signs?
00:10:11
and then like we have this giant Elvis head that we were given at the Chicago thing.
00:10:17
That's right. Jay Graves, what's up? And I thought we should say... You be quiet.
00:10:23
I thought, I think I was like, well, what if we write, keep your hands off my cookies?
00:10:30
Because that would be funny. But I didn't do it. Because I needed a nap. That's right.
00:10:38
Yeah. You know, some people are dedicated and they craft and they glue and glitter.
00:10:43
And then some people got to sleep. Some people tell a friend who's having a meetup
00:10:49
before they go to the protest. Some people tell them that they're going to show up
00:10:54
and they can't go to the protest because of anxiety, but they'll drive everyone to the train station.
00:10:58
And then some people can't wake up before 7.30 and then don't do that and then just promise
00:11:03
they'll take them to lunch next week. How many people were involved in this? Not me.
00:11:08
Because there's, were you all of them in that one? Uh-huh. Okay. So I'm going to lunch alone next week.
00:11:14
It's going to be great. Should we start? Sure. It feels like we should. Don't you feel like listening to a couple?
00:11:23
Don't you feel like listening to a couple stories of? Thank all of you for being a friend.
00:11:28
Right. That's for sure. Do you, what, who's? Travel down the road and back again?
00:11:34
No, who's first? Oh, oh. Is it me? Karen? Okay. Thank you. Here we go. Hey, I'm going to chill the fuck out.
00:11:46
And we're back. Oh, man. I wish I could explain the like sweaty excited sunburn from the March crowd that was there that night Oh yeah They were already pumped up from the march Such good energy Such good energy Everyone was dehydrated so everyone got drunk faster
00:12:06
It's like people marched down into the streets of downtown and then into the Orpheum Theater.
00:12:12
That was the energy we got. That's so good. What's interesting is I have no memory of what dress I wore that night,
00:12:18
although I'm thinking it was when I was on Talk Show The Game Show. Oh, that's exactly it.
00:12:24
I think you borrowed it from the incredible fashion person on the set of that show.
00:12:31
From Okira? Yeah. Okira Banks, who's my stylist, talk show, the game show's wardrobe person.
00:12:36
I didn't wear dresses, though. Oh, on the show. Okay. Like, I think it was probably like a black dress with pockets.
00:12:43
Yeah. Does the vintage one you have have pockets? That beautiful little, like, shift?
00:12:49
I don't remember. Because I'm picturing it, but I'm really just picturing a black dress.
00:12:52
So it could be anything. I mean, here's the thing. I really repeated a lot. They were like L.L. Bean dresses that were like, hey, lady that mostly likes to garden but sometimes is forced to go to a dinner party.
00:13:05
Or a funeral. Or a funeral. You can get a nice colored scarf and put it on this black dress with pockets.
00:13:12
It's like kind of body con. Is that what they call it? But it's not too crazy. Well, it went in at the waist, so it gives you a waist.
00:13:19
It gives you the curves you want. Some nice darts in the front and beautiful pockets.
00:13:23
We need more of those. L.L. Bean, ladies and gentlemen. We need our own pockets.
00:13:29
Yeah, that show was absolutely incredible. My sister was there. Lee was in the house.
00:13:33
I was so nervous because it's our hometown show, which feels so different. And ever since this show, I have been nervous to do a show.
00:13:40
Like whenever we do shows in L.A., there's something about it that's harder than New York.
00:13:45
It's harder than like, you know, Chicago or Texas. It's like it's our people. Yeah. And it's also show business people who, you know, comics learn this very quickly when they come and do sets in L.A.
00:13:57
No one laughs because everyone's in the business. So you don't want to seem like an audience member.
00:14:02
Right. And that's the disease of Los Angeles. Like everyone's too cool for school.
00:14:06
Therefore, you're like, oh, no, we're going to be facing down, you know, a bunch of blasé, blasé people as we're trying to get up there.
00:14:14
Like, everybody, do you like? But of course, our audience isn't like that. It's different.
00:14:18
And all we had to do was be like, how about that Women's March, ladies and gentlemen?
00:14:21
And then we were off to the races. So let's hop into the L.A. stories. This is Karen's story about the L.A. Ripper.
00:14:33
10-10 shots fired in City Hall building. How could this have happened in City Hall?
00:14:38
Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder. This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City politics.
00:14:45
I screamed, get down, get down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten and a mystery
00:14:54
that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex. Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall on the iHeartRadio app,
00:15:02
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall.
00:15:11
In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security,
00:15:17
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
00:15:24
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
00:15:32
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins,
00:15:42
but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice, Ms. Owens, correct?
00:15:48
I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
00:15:54
Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
00:15:59
My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police.
00:16:05
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:16:18
So, I decided because we're downtown and it's such a rich and storied past that this city has, and we're in it, we're sitting in it right now, that I would do an old downtown, old-timey murder.
00:16:34
and right why not so uh i decided to do the murder uh of the la ripper ever heard of that guy no
00:16:44
they're all his grandchildren yeah they're like how dare you speak of my grandpappy that way okay
00:16:53
you gotta tell me everything okay this was a guy named otto wilson uh he was born in shelbyville
00:17:00
Indiana. Graduated from high school in 1930. He moved to Indianapolis. He served in the Navy in
00:17:07
1941. And then he was given a medical discharge after his wife complained to the San Diego Naval
00:17:14
authorities about his unnatural impulses. Oh, that's all it takes. He wants to touch my butt.
00:17:20
Yeah. Don't touch your butt. Well, it turns out that before she left him ultimately, and I guess
00:17:26
after she made that complaint. He had cut her butt with a razor. There is a quote in this article I stole.
00:17:34
It was straight up like cut and paste plagiarism from two things that I then forgot to take
00:17:39
the actual names of the people who wrote these articles. And that's my favorite murder.
00:17:46
So there's some very flowery language that is not my own. I'll find it and say it later with an apology
00:17:54
and it be boring But this was one of the sentences that I love that I cut and paste onto here in the orphanage in the navy in his last months of drifting women had always subtly domineered over
00:18:08
him i'm sorry but like fucking let it happen bro what's the problem with that get into dom being
00:18:18
domineered over we know our shit chill the fuck out i mean it's kind of hot to be domineered over
00:18:23
sometimes. He probably sucked at fucking. And the ship was like, can you touch me in my normal
00:18:29
area? And he was like, domineering. Nope. Undo the razor. Turn around. Fuck you, man.
00:18:38
So, it all kind of... He was on a bender. His wife left him. Things were bad for several years.
00:18:46
He, on November 15th, 1944, he had been on a two-day bender at that point. And at some point in that time, he had bought
00:18:57
himself a butcher knife. Fun. So what did he just go into like Macy's or something?
00:19:03
Kind of drunk. You know how you do with hot dogs at Pink's, but with a butcher knife? You don't even need a license anymore
00:19:09
to get a butcher knife. That's right. You just fucking get them willy nilly. You can fucking register for one at a
00:19:15
wedding. Have you done? Yeah. We've both done that. That's right. So he was at a
00:19:23
bar and he met a woman named Virginia Lee Griffin. It was on Main Street. Yes. Dangerously close to where we are now.
00:19:31
But quite a long time ago. She told him her name was Virgie and she's described as a
00:19:37
big young woman with lipstick smeared too heavily on her lips. Fucking assholes. I mean, sounds
00:19:43
familiar though. I'm into it. Hey. Hi. She was married but her husband was away and she liked a good time. Who doesn't?
00:19:53
so they drank together and then they decided to go somewhere more private and he very gallantly
00:20:01
held her arm as they crossed the street in the rain this like like this not like sweetly all
00:20:07
nails yeah he has really weirdly long nails oh um what if it's the guy from the guinness book of
00:20:14
world records with the longest nails ever and he's like do you want to go somewhere more private
00:20:18
No. No. What? I don't know what we're talking about anymore. Here we go. So they went to the old Barclay Hotel,
00:20:28
which at that time I think was relatively new. It wasn't called that? I hate to shit on someone else's writing that I'm stealing,
00:20:37
but I think it was pretty new back then. So apparently they say that she was overheard as saying
00:20:46
when she walked in, and this is the way it's written so I'm going to do a little voice for it
00:20:51
if you don't mind here's the quote don't clap or then I won't want to do it don't you know me yet
00:20:59
so she looked up unsteadily as they walked into the hotel and she said I got my horoscope told
00:21:07
Wednesday is my lucky day oh honey Virgie and that's how you know that astrology isn't real
00:21:16
because this doesn't prove it. I don't know what else you need. So they registered as Mr. and Mrs. O.S.
00:21:25
Wilson of Steubenville, Indiana. And after they'd been in the room, they had a couple drinks from a bottle of whiskey he brought. She demanded
00:21:32
more money from him. So the funny part at that point is they hadn't really mentioned that she had gotten money before
00:21:40
that. So she was a sex worker. or a married lady that liked to have fun. Maybe that's the way they said it back then.
00:21:50
Fair enough, dude. I mean, whatever. Get yours. So what he said to the cops was,
00:21:56
somehow I got sore. I socked her and then I cut her. I was going to dismember her body and get rid of it,
00:22:04
but I found that I couldn't do it, so I left. Oh, what a gentleman. What a fucking asshole.
00:22:10
I got sore. I socked her. I mean, that's how you know it's not from now. LOL. So he punched her in the face so hard that he killed her, right?
00:22:24
No, what? No, you what? Go. No, I wasn't listening. No, he was mad that she was basically being kind of greedy and like,
00:22:36
and what he would do was strangle them, and they would pass out, and then he would cut them and kill them.
00:22:45
So when he left the hotel room, he gave the maid a dollar and he told her not to disturb his wife.
00:22:55
And then later on, of course, they found the body and it was sprawled on the bed
00:23:02
and she had been slashed. Her body had been slashed open from her throat to her vagina
00:23:08
and her entrails were pulled out. It gets worse if you want to try to really orchestrate the reactions
00:23:18
and kind of tighten it up and get it all together. There's no orchestra. Her breasts had been cut off and an arm and a leg.
00:23:30
They were partly severed. And the murder weapon, a razor-sharp carving knife, lay near the body.
00:23:38
Fuck. Man, that guy was like halfway through and he's like, I can't fucking do this.
00:23:42
He's like, I can't do it anymore. I fucking, I'm tired. I'm tired. How many times have we said, leave the eyes and the boobies alone?
00:23:50
They won't listen. So he leaves the hotel after that fucking carnage and he goes to the Million Dollar
00:24:00
theater to see Boris Karloff in The Walking Dead. I don't know, it's just fun to make some references.
00:24:08
I don't know why I'm pointing at everyone. Yeah, I'm just, you know, you, you love that
00:24:12
movie and place and thing. Fucking sickos. So when the movie was done, he went to another bar
00:24:21
and he went and met a woman named Lillian Johnson. Uh-huh. And he took her to the Joyce Hotel
00:24:30
where they registered as Mr. and Mrs. O.S. Watson. Stop it. Same day. What an idiot, though.
00:24:38
So he realized he... It was the same situation where he gets into the room and then he told the cops, like,
00:24:46
I don't know, I just got mad. I just got mad and I hit her. But of course, she was found in the exact same condition that Virgie was found in.
00:24:57
But apparently, he beat her up, and then he realized that he had left his knife at the other hotel.
00:25:06
So he shaved, and then, and she was unconscious on the floor, he shaves, and then he takes the straight razor that he just used to shave
00:25:20
and kills her and starts to cut her up. Then on the way out of this hotel, he stops by the desk clerk and says,
00:25:28
my wife is sleeping, please don't disturb her. Code for, I just murdered this chick I just met.
00:25:37
So witnesses from both hotels gave the cops similar descriptions. They took that information,
00:25:42
They created a dragnet all around where we are right now. And one cop is in a bar,
00:25:49
and he sees a man matching Otto's description in a booth in deep conversation with a brunette in a tight red dress.
00:25:58
Oh, honey, run. So he was going to do it again. He had lit his cigarette with a matchbook,
00:26:06
and the matchbook said, The Barclay Hotel. And his hands had blood on them. And the cop was like, excuse me, I'd love to speak with you for a second.
00:26:17
Give it a week. Like, chill. He can't. He simply has no chill. So they bring him in.
00:26:28
He immediately confesses to both killings. He admits his compulsion toward bloodlust.
00:26:33
And he told the police that his first wife left him because it would creep up on her when she was naked
00:26:41
and slashed her buttocks with a razor. What the fucking fuck? I mean... That's not cool.
00:26:49
Like, one time, you're like, goodbye? Like, what the fuck? He told the cops that his favorite pastime
00:26:55
was kissing and licking the blood away while he apologized for his odd behavior.
00:27:01
Ew, ew. There's so many other pastimes. Like, there's sailboarding and... Yeah, you know how great, like, naps are?
00:27:10
Yeah, naps, raccoons. Anything. Look up raccoons in the encyclopedia. Raccoons are amazing animals.
00:27:17
They wash their own food with their little hands. Oh my God. YouTube videos of ravens talking.
00:27:25
They can talk. They talk better than parrots. Yes. It's crazy and no one talks about it.
00:27:30
Nobody believes it. No one knows. Everyone here is like, why don't you know? It's true.
00:27:33
It is so true. Anyhow, look, I'm going to wrap it up by saying that Dr. Victor Park in the defense
00:27:39
psychiatrist and a member of the Los Angeles Lunacy Commission. Oh, that's a thing. That's
00:27:46
going to be a thing again. We got to bring it back, you guys. That's the next march.
00:27:52
This man testified that Otto was in a semi-automatic state and he had no feeling. An automatic state?
00:27:59
Oh, come on. Way up top on that one. So fast. No. So fast at those. So terrible. Thank you. Good.
00:28:07
he was in a dreamlike state he didn't realize he was butchering a fellow human I disagree
00:28:16
and basically they said he was crazy and so then Otto Steve Wilson I didn't notice that before
00:28:29
Otto Steve Wilson was executed in the gas chamber of San Quentin in prison in September of 1946.
00:28:37
And it says right here, but his son, Otto Steve Ray Morris Jr. Oh my God. He's still alive today.
00:28:46
Fuck. I noticed that Stephen would often scrape up against my butt with sharp things.
00:28:54
Enough of that. Okay, that was awesome. Thanks, I appreciate it. Guys, I didn't write it.
00:29:03
I just read it and interpreted it. Thank you. Okay, we're back, Karen. I know it's an old story.
00:29:12
So do you have any updates? None. Wow. So let's get into Georgia's story. We just turned around.
00:29:20
I mean, it was so old. Yeah. You know, it's a nightmare kind of, this is one of the OG serial killers of L.A.
00:29:27
And when you are a person that follows true crime, you're like, oh, I know what you mean by that.
00:29:31
because it's 44 in this year, but then it's like we're about to go on to some horrifying serial killing in the Southland.
00:29:40
Hey, everyone. Yeah, that. And then let's go to the Pacific Northwest. Yeah. Where the serial killer's children are being
00:29:46
serial killers themselves. It's just, yeah. Although, you know, George's story goes even earlier than that.
00:29:53
So should we get into that Yeah let do it This is George story about the Greystone Mansion and the Doheny Martins Mmm
00:30:05
Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:30:14
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,
00:30:21
tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now.
00:30:30
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
00:30:37
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
00:30:43
You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:30:48
All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
00:30:53
What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:31:00
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl.
00:31:07
This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
00:31:11
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure,
00:31:15
the expectations, and the real work behind it all. As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated.
00:31:22
So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
00:31:27
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app,
00:31:34
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, mine is also vintage. Nice.
00:31:42
Because there's a lot of sad crimes today, but not a lot of cool ones, man. Yeah.
00:31:47
Just like a bunch of shitty shit. All right. So, excuse me. That wasn't real. Okay.
00:31:55
Do you want some Diet Coke? No, thank you. Greystone Mansion. Am I wrong? Also known as the Doheny Murders.
00:32:05
Am I wrong? Poor people. I'm not wrong. You just said Doheny Mansion, am I wrong?
00:32:10
never because three people were like yes yes and i was asking them am i am i wrong no you're never
00:32:17
wrong so uh the doheen the grayson the graystone mansion is a 55 room uh mansion in beverly hills
00:32:25
it's built in 1928 at the time it cost over four million dollars to build and was the most expensive
00:32:31
home in california whoa and it was also known as the doheny mansion because it was a gift from the
00:32:37
oil tycoon Edward Doheny to his fucking kind of shitty son, Ned. What's Ned? Why are you attacking Ned?
00:32:45
Ned, alright, Ned might not be shitty, but you know what I'm saying. If he's a Doheny, let's
00:32:51
not be rude to Ned. He'll end us. Ned is a, here we go. Oh, this is about Ned? Oh shit, I spoke too soon.
00:33:01
I'm sorry. So Edward Doheny, the older dude comes from a poor Irish immigrant background. Do not point at me. No, I was like,
00:33:11
remember that? It was only two generations ago. You did that. I did it. Okay. So in,
00:33:20
in, in Edwards late, like in the late thirties, which gives me hope with my life,
00:33:24
he becomes a, he was super poor and then he like becomes a California oil tycoon and he drills.
00:33:31
You can do it. I can fucking do that. There's oil everywhere. You can find it. Get in there?
00:33:37
Yeah. So he, you know on like La Cienega when you're on your way to the airport and there are those like dinosaurs and like oil things?
00:33:44
Sure do. Like he's the guy who fucking found those. Oh, the Ellie Confidential ones?
00:33:49
Yes. Yes, yes. And like the tar pits, like that's all him, dude. He made tar pits?
00:33:54
He fucking made the tar pits. He sunk those dinosaur bones in there? Huh. So he becomes the first successful oil well guy.
00:34:03
And like, there will be blood. It's like, that's basically him. And he makes a fucking fortune.
00:34:09
And then he eventually owns one of the largest oil companies in the world. And this is the 1920s where everything was cool.
00:34:17
So his son, Ned, is living off the money and like, you know, pretending to be a businessman.
00:34:22
And then in 1913, I think he's in his late teens, early 20s, he meets a man named Hugh Plunkett.
00:34:28
and don't fucking and then at the time Hugh is working at a gas station near the house
00:34:38
owned by like friends and Hugh and Ned become good friends and Hugh starts working
00:34:44
for the Doheny family and eventually becomes Ned's personal secretary and he travels with him on business
00:34:52
and they're like fucking tight as shit okay no I get it Ned rolled up to the gas station one day
00:34:59
he's like, see that gas? My dad made that. Washed my windows. According to a family friend,
00:35:05
their relationship was more than that of friends and another said that they were like brothers.
00:35:11
Brothers that made out all the time. Fair enough. So in November 1921, the two of them check into a suite
00:35:20
in this fucking place and then Ned takes out $100,000 which is about $10 million in today's money
00:35:25
which I fucking love hearing. Oh, everyone gasped. People love money. 10 million.
00:35:31
Like that's, it's a lot. We could like, we could like retire for five years off of that.
00:35:38
Okay, so Ned takes it out of his bank account and then he and Hugh go to DC. They meet with this dude
00:35:45
who's the secretary of the interior for the hiring administration and then he's Albert Fall.
00:35:50
Okay, so this dude, Albert Fall, is a friend of the older dude, Doheny and they hand him the money and in return Fall gives them a promissory note and then I slept through history
00:36:08
literally, and fucking was on drugs. Okay, so... Basically, there's some kind of an oily business deal going down.
00:36:16
You guys remember the words teapot dome scandal? This is it. I don't fucking know.
00:36:22
Okay, something happens. Fall gives Doheny a bunch of shit and a bunch of oil stuff in exchange
00:36:28
for the hundred bucks, so it's like super shady and shit. And then, so Albert Fall is eventually
00:36:34
charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States as part of the Teapot Dome scandal. That's not a problem
00:36:40
anymore, apparently. Give everyone money and get fucked yourself. The hearing, Ned,
00:36:47
so Ned, the son, has to testify against his pops, and he says that, you know, he's like, no, we didn't do anything wrong.
00:36:56
And Ned and Hugh, his fucking... Boyfriend. Boyfriend. They're implicated and...
00:37:04
Okay, so at the end, the dad gets acquitted, kind of. And so as Ned's loyalty, he builds him the Greystone Manor.
00:37:13
Okay. Oh, shit. All right. I forgot about that part. Yes, we're back. We're back in at the Greystone Manor.
00:37:19
Remember that biggest house you've ever heard of in your life? Can I just tell you really quick?
00:37:23
I went and saw a play done in the Greystone Manor. No, you didn't. Yes, where you walk around.
00:37:28
The play is happening. You went to the Greystone Manor? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because they do a thing.
00:37:33
I think maybe it's for Christmas or something. But you walk around like you're at this party.
00:37:37
And then the actors are around you. I hate shit like that so much. I think it's so embarrassing to be that close to an actor.
00:37:46
Hello, my lady. Oh, I have a vest on. I was like, oh, don't look at me. But anyway, yeah, but the house itself was lovely.
00:37:54
That's amazing. No, that's fucking awesome. Okay, all right. Okay. Then Karen Kilgarev was there.
00:38:01
Yes, finally. Okay, so he starts going fucking crazy at this point because he's like, I'm just like a poor dude
00:38:11
and I have to fucking testify against maybe my lover and his pops and blah, blah, blah.
00:38:18
Okay, so on February 16th, 1929, Hugh, this is the gas station dude, he lets himself into the main house because he had a key and he used to hang out in this room like it was his bedroom sometimes.
00:38:32
I'm going to belch really soon. Do it. Okay. So Ned and Hugh, they meet in this guest bedroom and Hugh's looking the fuck out apparently.
00:38:42
and then around 11 o'clock, Lucy, the wife of Ned, who's like a fucking staunch Catholic,
00:38:49
hears a shot while she's in the living room reading magazines. And who does she call to be like,
00:38:53
I heard a shot? The police? No. The doctor, the family doctor. Oh. Who were you going to say?
00:39:01
Batman. No. No, no, I just say, rich people never call the cops. No, call the fucking doctor.
00:39:08
Call your lawyer, you call your... Anyone. And there's so many people. The thing is, help me.
00:39:14
An uncle. I'm not going to name people, sorry. So he arrived. Okay, so the doctor says to the cops that he hears Hugh yelling at them from this place not to come into the room.
00:39:26
And there's the second shot. And when the doctor goes in, he finds both men. And their whole story is that Ned had been shot by Hugh.
00:39:35
And Hugh had shot himself. Like a murder-suicide. And then I wrote, suspicious shit.
00:39:41
I really it's right there so okay here's some suspicious shit Ned's gun the fucking Doheny dude's gun
00:39:53
was the murder weapon super weird right and before the police were called the bodies had been moved
00:40:00
from their original position and the police weren't called until 2am so the first shot was at 11pm
00:40:06
and the fucking cops were called at 2am so they were moving stuff around Well, yeah, the fucking bodies were moved.
00:40:13
And so what it looked like is that Ned was shot by Doheny in the head, and then Doheny, who had a lit cigarette in his hand,
00:40:25
had landed on the gun after killing himself. Suspicious shit, right? Yeah. But there were powder burns on the hole in Doheny's head,
00:40:37
which means the gun had been less than three inches away from his head and killed himself,
00:40:41
which usually points to suicide. And there was no powder burns on Hugh, which every fucking person here
00:40:47
who's ever watching a fucking Discovery ID thing knows that you check for powder burns.
00:40:51
And that's who shoots the fucking gun. There weren't any. But within hours, the DA's office holds a press conference
00:40:59
and they're like, this is a murder-suicide and this poor person killed this rich person
00:41:04
and closed the fucking case. No, autopsy's nothing. Which is like, you're in charge of the media at that point.
00:41:10
Okay, so here are some theories. One was that it was a murder-suicide, but that Ned and Hugh had been together,
00:41:19
and that Ned and Hugh had been called to testify on the bribery trials, but that Ned had been assured immunity,
00:41:28
and Hugh had not, and he felt betrayed, which is true. Ned was assured immunity against his father.
00:41:34
Hugh was not. They were throwing him under the bus. Yeah, they were going to make the poor guy take the fall.
00:41:39
Fuck this dude. for Albert Fall. Right. Oh, yeah. The other was that Ned and Hugh were lovers, okay, and that they had a fight and that Lucy
00:41:50
caught them the wife of Ned caught them and killed them herself which is why she shouldn call the cops immediately And what supports either of the lover that they were lover stories and that they killed each other in a lover quarrel is that they were both buried in Forest Lawn
00:42:08
which is a secular cemetery, but the Doheny family were devout Catholics. And you can't bury someone in a Catholic cemetery
00:42:18
if they killed themselves. Oh yeah, that's right, because suicide is a, what do you call it?
00:42:24
Number one sin? Cardinal. Venial. Here we go. Catholicness. Who went there? Baruch atah.
00:42:33
Okay, so. Okay, or that they were lovers and everyone knew it. And so they were buried
00:42:39
like within a few feet of each other in this secular fucking place. All right. Okay, and so they were buried together
00:42:51
and close by. And so no one really knows why they killed each other or who killed who and why.
00:42:57
But it seems very suspicious. And also, because of the sympathy that they had for Doheny having his son being killed,
00:43:07
his investigation was basically called off, which makes everyone think that maybe the senior Doheny fucking killed both of them.
00:43:14
Oh, whoa. To get them to shut the fuck up. Because he was getting off? Yeah. Wow.
00:43:20
Because he got off because of his kid getting murdered. So basically anybody in that family could have murdered them.
00:43:26
Yeah. Essentially. Christmas was fun, I bet, at their house. Okay. So now it's a city park now.
00:43:36
And so everyone lets me there tomorrow. You can go there now and just have tours and just chill and have a fucking picnic.
00:43:44
It's an amazing house. It's pretty cool. It's supposedly beautiful, but it's also supposed to be haunted.
00:43:49
I hope so. Yeah. If all that happened. Dude. Yeah. All right. Nice one. Hey, look.
00:43:55
Those are our murders. Thanks. Is that it? Are we done? Well, we now have some special guests to bring out because as you know, yes, it's very exciting.
00:44:08
This is the portion of our show that we normally do hometown murders. And so we thought it would be fun to have our two friends, our brother podcast.
00:44:19
you might want to say from the dollop Dave Anthony and Gary Reynolds. Yay! Yay! Get over there.
00:44:31
Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Hi. Why don't you surround us? Yeah, that's nice. Really take the stage.
00:44:44
So Ned and who's the other guy? What? Oh, Hugh. They were totally fucking because someone came in and saw them fucking
00:44:52
and then they killed them and then they put their clothes on and moved them around.
00:44:58
You forgot about that. They moved them around. They put their clothes on. The after murder dress.
00:45:03
Why else would you be moving them around? No, for sure. All of it. I didn't want to say that
00:45:07
because I'm not a fucking... They were totally getting it on. Okay, you've been clear.
00:45:13
We all have theories, Dave. Okay, we are back. Are there updates for this story?
00:45:23
Again, no updates because it's... Too old. Vintage. We call it vintage. But you can go see The Manor, the interactive play that made you uncomfortable, Karen.
00:45:34
Obviously, this is great advertisement for them. Yes. You can go see it. It's performed annually, typically each January through February at the Greystone Mansion.
00:45:42
It's an immersive room-to-room performance inside the mansion. I mean, that sounds awesome.
00:45:47
telling the dramatized version of the Doheny murders. It's become a local institution, often selling out before even general release.
00:45:55
Listen, I give this an A plus in terms of performance concept. You're in the mansion, whatever.
00:46:00
What makes me uncomfortable is as a person who was like a drama major. I'm like, how come she got that part instead of me?
00:46:07
There's all that kind of stuff. I would play it like this. Yes, you're outside of it.
00:46:10
But when you're actually at it, you just are really in this situation watching these people.
00:46:15
It's very, very cool. That's such a cool gimmick. I wish there were more places that did stuff like that.
00:46:20
The immersive style. Yeah. It's cool. Yeah. So you can find more information at theater4040.org.
00:46:27
All right. And then we had very special guest, our dear friend and supporter of the podcast from the beginning.
00:46:34
Yes. Dave Anthony from The Dollop. And he is going to talk about Ken McElroy. Now, a detractor of this podcast from the beginning is Gareth Reynolds, who's also from The Dollop.
00:46:44
No, just kidding. But here's the producorial decision that I still can't believe that we made.
00:46:50
Yeah. We had both of them tell stories. What the fuck? It was way too long. No one needs four stories.
00:46:56
No. I think we were just, like, excited and we were there and we were just, like, the more the merrier.
00:47:01
But I feel bad because by the time Gareth was telling his story, everyone's like, shut the fuck up.
00:47:06
Yeah, my butt's numb. Let's stop doing this. Everyone. I saw a lot of Twitter. We didn't drive up there to listen to two men talk.
00:47:13
No. you know, on the like Women's March Day where I was just like, oh, OK, sorry.
00:47:17
Oh, that makes sense. If we had had like a strong female lead come on stage and galvanize.
00:47:21
What the fuck? I know. All right. Well, sorry. That was back when we were self-produced.
00:47:26
Yeah. Dave and Gareth, apologies. We just set them up for failure. But they did a great job.
00:47:31
They did a great job and we had a great time. That's right. That's all that matters.
00:47:34
We should have just had one less story. OK, here we go. We heard you guys have hometown murders.
00:47:42
I don't have a hometown murder. So what? So, you know, last time I was on, I did my hometown murder.
00:47:47
Yeah. So there's a there's a murderer that everybody who listens to the dollop has always been like, you have to do this one. And I'm like, we don't do murders.
00:47:56
In a couple of ways. What do you mean? We add don't murder people and we don't cover them.
00:48:02
Oh, we've actually started murdering people. Oh, that's news. Well, I'll bring you in on it.
00:48:08
Thank you. You guys need to have a team meeting. We should have a meeting. It's been too long, turns out.
00:48:13
We're not communicating. I've been killing our fans. Okay, well, we should catch up more often, I think.
00:48:18
You know how you keep losing one fan a week? Yeah. Here's the murder. Okay, so I'm going to tell you guys.
00:48:26
So my uncle. Oh, wait, Dave, sorry. I'm so sorry. Yeah, go ahead. Hi, I'm Dave. I just remembered something.
00:48:32
That I used to slash your buttocks when we dated. Oh, that's the scars. How dare you speak of our secrets this way at the Orpheum.
00:48:44
Know that you guys did, that we did the Tylenol murders. Oh my God. And then we did the Bhagwan Shweev Rajneesh, which I didn't know that you guys had just.
00:48:55
Yes, they did it at the same time. Don't fucking write our coattails, man. No. Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
00:49:03
We put out the Tylenol within hours of each other, right? Yes. But you guys did it from the murder perspective
00:49:10
and we did it from the perspective that the fucking guy kept admitting to it and he didn't do it.
00:49:16
Like the guy who they thought did it. Yeah. It's some guy out there who's still out there.
00:49:21
That guy's still out there. No, it's fucking... He's like staring at Excedrin. It's the Unabomber, dude.
00:49:27
Like he's ready to go, that guy. It's the fucking Unabomber. You think it's a Unabomber?
00:49:30
A hundred fucking percent. It could totally be the Unabomber. It's fucking the Unabomber.
00:49:34
I promise you. Koresh, right? Nope. Not Koresh. Who's the Unabomber? Koresh is dead.
00:49:44
A hundred percent. A hundred percent. The Unabomber. Koresh. Koresh. That is why I love you.
00:49:50
The fucking you. The Unabomber, Ted Bundy. None of you are here for fucking facts.
00:49:54
Don't fucking come at me. I don't know what I'm talking about. I'm embarrassed. Sorry, I interrupted.
00:49:59
to do anyway. Kresh didn't make it. He burned up in a house with some people. Yes!
00:50:04
He's an angel. I believe in him. Kaczynski. Kaczynski. Same thing. Don't people also think
00:50:09
that he is the San Francisco Zodiac? That's stupid. That's stupid. Right. It's Ted Cruz.
00:50:19
We're going to solve it all tonight. Yeah. It's really, we're knocking a lot down.
00:50:25
Sorry, Dave. Tell yours. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Karen knows what mine is I should have brought it up
00:50:34
should have had it on my iPad Ken McElroy nope that's not right no it is it's McElroy
00:50:42
I didn't even notice that when I was writing it M-C-E-L-R-O-Y McElroy right? his fucking name is killing it
00:50:49
should have seen that coming he was born in 1934 he was the 15th of 16 children is he a rabbit?
00:50:58
the fuck? listen it was just like how caviar is birthed run be free children all of you now
00:51:07
oh my god that is just like the baby comes out and he's like let's do it again do you even like know your parents
00:51:18
if you're the 15 and 16 no your eldest brother's like I'm called dad so they lived in a four bedroom house
00:51:28
So let's do some math. Oh, no. Yeah, that's not great. 32 people to a room? That's exactly right, Karen.
00:51:35
Your math is exactly right. He never learned to read well. He never really had a great job.
00:51:44
He quit school in the fifth grade. I wonder why he never got a good job. I don't know.
00:51:49
Are there any facts about that? I don't know. They lived outside of Skidmore, Missouri,
00:51:54
a town of about 450 people. has two paved streets they were all of them it's our town
00:52:02
two paved streets no traffic lights one small mom and pop store a gas station cafe
00:52:10
that's it that's the whole deal so he started stealing animals what? sure he started stealing animals
00:52:20
no sure before he was 18 years old he bought an old sedan and he took the back seat out
00:52:27
and he put plywood down and then he'd drive around at night and steal pigs. Oh, all right.
00:52:36
I mean, okay. Well, he had a plan. It's Missouri. You know, it's classic Missouri.
00:52:41
For some reason, it's like when you picture like dogs or cats, it's like, oh God.
00:52:46
And it's like, he stole pigs. And it's like, this is funny. I like this story. Well, he would sell them.
00:52:54
He would steal them and sell them to someone who wanted to buy pigs. That's better than killing pigs.
00:53:00
Oh, yeah. No, he wasn't taking them out and killing them. He was like, you want to buy them?
00:53:03
I feel like they eventually kill them, though. Fair enough. Yeah, I mean, people are eating these pigs.
00:53:07
At the end, the story's not great for the pigs. Wait, they don't just want to feed them peppermints and put that on YouTube?
00:53:14
I'm not sure you've ever been to a farm. So he married for the first time at the age of 18.
00:53:23
She was 16. They moved briefly to Denver, but he couldn't keep a job there, so he and his wife moved back.
00:53:32
He started hanging out with two of his raccoon hunting buddies. You guys earlier were talking about raccoons.
00:53:38
Yeah. You were making this sound cute. They are horrible monsters. Oh, that's not fair.
00:53:45
That come into my backyard and do this. That's not fair. So I don't know what raccoon you're...
00:53:51
They tell stories about you. Oh, this asshole. He like yeah They do that about you Actually can I tell a true story Yeah One time I heard a noise at my back door in the middle of the night I was scared shitless but I had to go see This was before I got a dog
00:54:05
And I had to go see by myself. So it was like a weird tapping sound. And so I go over and I turn on the porch light at the back.
00:54:13
And there was a raccoon that was trying to get through the built-in cat door. Fuck that.
00:54:18
Yes. Like with his little raccoon hands. Yes. And when I flicked on the light, he kind of like sat up and looked at me.
00:54:25
And then we were just staring at each other. Yeah, that's what they do. I kick the door, right?
00:54:30
Yeah, he's your best friend. He's leaned over like this, you know, kind of trying to tap on the thing.
00:54:35
And then I kick the door thinking he's going to run away. And instead he goes. And just kind of like stood up and paused at me.
00:54:43
Did he do this? And that's her dog, Frank, now. He fucking. Okay, so I'm in my bag.
00:54:50
I'm in my backyard. I'm going to do an act out. I'm in my backyard. Do it. Do it.
00:54:55
And I hear all this noise. And I'm like, well, there's raccoons getting in the dog or cat's food,
00:55:02
one or the other. And so I go out there and I grab a bat. Because I know raccoons are terrifying.
00:55:07
I'm not like her where I'm like, hi, raccoon. I have a bat. To be fair. And I come out and there's a raccoon.
00:55:13
And it comes out. And it's like this in front of me. And I'm like, what are you doing?
00:55:18
I tap the bat on the ground. and it's like, what? His stance got wider. He's like, what are you doing?
00:55:25
He had a bat too. And I'm like, and I'm like, you're supposed to be scared. And he's like, I'm not scared.
00:55:34
You're doing his voice where he spoke. And so I'm doing that. I'm like, get out of here, you fucker.
00:55:41
And then he's standing there and he's making himself big and then his four buddies go trucking by.
00:55:46
Oh, shit. Like he was fucking, in the, he was like the distraction guy. They were flanking him.
00:55:52
So his house could run off. Terrifying. He's like, he's like when there's the, the midnight bicycle riders and one of them stops
00:55:58
in the middle of the fucking intersection and they're like, fuck you. And then like a bunch of them.
00:56:02
Get on, get on, get on. Go, go, go. All of you fucking out, you fucking dick skier motherfuckers.
00:56:09
Midnight ride. Okay. I feel like we got that. This derailed. So he goes out hunting with his buddies and they shoot raccoons.
00:56:21
And I assume they eat them. What else would you do with a delightful raccoon? But mostly what he did at night was steal cattle, horses, and hogs.
00:56:30
He now had a horse trailer that he used to move stolen animals. And in this part of Missouri, they didn't really brand animals,
00:56:37
so it was super easy for him to steal. He was also very skilled at harassing witnesses.
00:56:42
Oh. he had an attorney who he would retain for $5,000 per felony who would keep him out of
00:56:49
jail and this was not a problem because he had a lot of money, he was always living large, he had a big
00:56:56
roll of cash in his truck, he was driving a new pigs? was it pig money? he's stealing pigs and
00:57:02
cattle and horses and selling to other people, so he had that fuck you pig money
00:57:06
fuck you pig money, yeah like the 450 people in his fucking town were like, wait a minute
00:57:12
nobody was like wait a minute and also someone was like I'm gonna marry him what is wrong with him
00:57:21
he's got it all a van with pigs swoon swoon one time a farmer caught him stealing
00:57:32
two horses tortoises what you do with my tortoises boy they ran into my car I haven't milked them yet
00:57:44
Ran So Well we can move So the farmer reported it to the cops And said this guy stole my horses
00:57:54
And filed charges And McElroy Visited the farmer the next day with a rifle And hit him in the face with the butt of the gun
00:58:04
And then the farmer dropped the charges He was like that's fair I didn't I see your point
00:58:10
I'm on your side now when McElroy was 20 he had a child with a woman who was not his wife
00:58:18
at the same time he was dating a 15 year old girl what the fuck this guy gets so many fucking chicks
00:58:25
he's a very hot prospect in town he's got the pig car this girl was named Sharon
00:58:35
and they had a complicated and messy relationship and one day they were arguing and he shot her in the neck with a shotgun.
00:58:42
She did not die, but she did have scars, because that'll happen. She was okay? Yeah, she lived after getting shot in the neck with a shotgun.
00:58:49
Well, she was hella mad. Yeah, I mean, she had a fear of guns after it. Some irrational fear.
00:58:55
And she felt like dating someone else after that. After that. Nope, she forgave him.
00:59:02
Oh, good, good, good, good. And he divorced his first wife and married her. They had two kids.
00:59:09
Wow That's quite a turnaround You know what, love is fucking awesome Stupid, crazy
00:59:16
Then around 1961 McElroy started dating a 13 year old girl What's going on? What?
00:59:25
You've slowly inched it back Creepier and creepier It started and it wasn't okay
00:59:30
So he's 27 at this point Yeah, 27 year olds are fucking disgusting We all know that
00:59:37
Also, at this point, he's living with his parents. Oh my, geez, look at this guy.
00:59:45
Dream date. Yeah. Wait a minute, you live with your parents? Smell like pigs and shoot girls?
00:59:53
You still available Oh you not I still in I still in Yeah so they have a farmhouse So he moved Sally in with his parents and his wife Sharon
01:00:07
So it's his girlfriend and his wife and his parents and their kids. What? So Sally had three kids and Sharon had two more.
01:00:18
Oh, honey. McElwally then met and started seeing another underage girl named Alice.
01:00:23
in 1964. Seriously. She was 12. Shut up. What? Shut up. I wish the story would end that all the ladies
01:00:34
fucking murdered him and moved to New York City and then became the Rockettes. That's what I was going to say.
01:00:42
This is the story of the Rockettes. But it doesn't. That's how the Rockettes began.
01:00:49
And then he met a young woman named Marsha. She was now living there. And then, so it's Marcia and Alice
01:00:59
are living in his parents' house with the six kids. And then he met 12-year-old...
01:01:04
A lot of Brady Bunch commonalities right there. Then he met 12-year-old Trina. Jan.
01:01:10
Who was an eighth grader, and he seduced her. No, he didn't. He gave her candy and then molested...
01:01:18
That's not seduction, dude. Wow, that's a very good point. It's not seduction. It's not seduction?
01:01:23
No. It's not like he fucking put these sexy moves. He was just like, I'm a... I am a man.
01:01:29
You're a girl. That's what seduction is. Yeah. This is my pig. Yeah. Have you ever seen a pig?
01:01:39
And then you're in your sedan on the wood floor. He's 37, by the way. Oh. Ew. At this point.
01:01:49
So to have Trina moved in He kicks out Marsha He's like you're old You're like 13
01:01:55
So then Trina moves in Drops out of school in the 9th grade And is pregnant by the time she's 14
01:02:02
Things weren't going that well Because just 16 days after the birth Alice took off
01:02:08
To her parents house The escape lasted just hours Because McElroy came to the home with a gun
01:02:15
And forced the girls to come back with him Oh Alice, her other friend, who's there now?
01:02:22
The other one also went with her. Maureen? Let's call her Maureen. Maureen goes back
01:02:30
also. So then he brings them back and he beats them both and made them have sex with him.
01:02:37
And then, which I believe is called rape. And then when he was done, he brought Trina back to her
01:02:46
parents' house and shot the family dog. No! No, we can't do that here. And then poured gas all around
01:02:56
the house and burned it down. Jesus. So he is en fuego. He's just fucking, as far as being horrible,
01:03:04
he's killing it. Yeah, he's doing very well. Oh, man. God, just fucking chill out, dude.
01:03:10
Yeah. Right? Just chill out. It's not a solution, Georgia. No, it is. It won't work.
01:03:17
I'm not sure. If someone had walked in and gone, dude, chill. We don't know what would have happened.
01:03:23
We don't. We don't. A couple of days later, Trina went to a doctor because, you know, she had been beaten.
01:03:30
And he was like, you look like you've been beaten. You're very good. Is this doctor from the city?
01:03:39
He really knows his stuff. Boy, your degrees are real, huh? You put the nail on the head, Doc.
01:03:46
he slowly got the story of the beating out of her and the dog shooting and the arson
01:03:53
so the doctor contacts the social welfare agency who put trina and her baby into foster care
01:04:00
because she was a child and and then the case was taken to the district attorney and on the basis of
01:04:09
trina's testimony mackerel is indicted for arson assault and rape but it was not looking good he
01:04:15
He was represented by defense attorney Richard Gene McFadden, who said McElroy was his favorite client because he always paid cash
01:04:23
and he always came back. Oh, no. Wow. Get your shit another. What the fuck is wrong with you, dude?
01:04:31
That's the worst. Hey, you're back. Who'd you kill? All right. What, did you shoot a pig or a person?
01:04:38
What'd you do? A person, dog, house. All right. Woo. Trifecta. All right. I'm going to buy a houseboat.
01:04:47
Time for me to live on a boat. But even with his $5,000 per felony charge, the attorney told him it would be difficult for him to be acquitted.
01:04:58
But McElroy would not give up. He found the foster home where Trina was living and began to make threatening phone calls.
01:05:04
He would sit out in front of the foster home for hours and hours, sometimes shooting a gun into the air.
01:05:11
What? He then called the foster family. You're a fucking nerd. Yeah. Yeah. It's a cartoon.
01:05:20
It sounds like a cartoon. What about this isn't working? Did I not tell you this was Yosemite Sam?
01:05:26
Oh. Yosemite Sam origin story. Then he called the foster family and said he would trade, quote, girl for girl to get his child back.
01:05:37
By this he meant he knew where the foster family's biological daughter went to school and what bus she rode.
01:05:43
So that didn't go well and the district attorney then hit him with eight more felony child molestation charges as a result of his sexual activity with Trina.
01:05:53
The attorney kept using delay tactics and after a while Trina decided to go back to McElroy I can go through this again with you Dave He then arranged to divorce his second wife Sharon from whom he been separated
01:06:11
for years and married Trina. To get Trina's parents to agree he threatened to kill the mother
01:06:19
and the mother was like, okay, you can marry my daughter. We like him. That's sweet.
01:06:25
It's romantic. I mean, like, oh, my God. So this solved all his legal problems because being his wife,
01:06:31
Trina could not be compelled to testify against him. Oh, shit. Oh, yay. She also signed a statement saying she had lied about everything
01:06:38
and McElroy beat the charges. And her. And his wife. And her. In 1976, he shot a neighbor farmer in the face and stomach.
01:06:48
The gun was loaded with birdshot The lawyer also delayed it as long as possible While McElroy intimidated the farmer
01:06:56
Driving by his house Shining a spotlight into his windows at night Destroying his tractors
01:07:01
And shooting guns into the air The farmer said McElroy Parked outside his home at least a hundred times
01:07:08
And would just sit there At the trial, two of his raccoon hunting buddies Said they were with him the day of the shooting
01:07:13
And McElroy got off again The pattern of committing crimes then intimidating witnesses
01:07:20
went on for four years. Then, in 1980, two of his daughters went into a town store.
01:07:24
So he's got two daughters. One's like a teenager and the other's five. So the older girl
01:07:29
buys something and then as they walk out, the five-year-old girl grabs a couple little
01:07:33
pieces of candy. Sure. I did that. I did. And the clerk was like, hey, put that shit back.
01:07:41
And then the girl was like, and threw it back and was mad, which is cool for a five-year-old.
01:07:47
And then a couple hours later, McElroy and Trina showed up, and McElroy was just kicking it with a knife.
01:07:55
And Trina and the owner argued about how he had treated the daughter, and then the couple said, well, you're banned from our store.
01:08:03
You can never come back. So McElroy started harassing the owners, and then after a couple months, he pulled up in the back of the store
01:08:10
and shot the husband owner in the neck with a shotgun. And he lived. everybody in this city shooting.
01:08:19
This whole city is filled with people with the most powerful necks. Titanium necks.
01:08:25
Yes. What is it? The water? Their necks are bulletproof. It's so strange. But...
01:08:33
Cool. Now, McElroy was arrested again. And then he started harassing the store owners.
01:08:40
And he calmed the fuck down, man. He needs to stop harassing and shooting in the neck.
01:08:45
and the air and marrying children there's a lot of things for him to knock off dude's got a thing
01:08:53
it's his thing we hate his thing we're being very clear I mean take it up with Pepsi
01:09:00
because they were sponsoring him for doing all this? yeah he had like four sponsors
01:09:07
what's the extreme sports thing when you can skateboard he's like X Games he did it all on a little bike
01:09:14
OG X Games. So he starts harassing the store owners, and then when he heard that the town minister
01:09:22
had gone to visit the store owner in the hospital because of his neck wound, he turned his wrath on the minister
01:09:29
and told the minister he was going to castrate him and cut his son to pieces in front of him.
01:09:35
Chill. So the minister started carrying a gun. Yes. This is a good town. Get it.
01:09:41
I like that just because the minister went and visited him, He's like, well, I'm going to cut your kid up.
01:09:46
He's like, it's my job. I see people that are hurt. God makes me. I'm cutting your balls off.
01:09:53
I'm not laughing at that. So his lawyer's whole thing was delay tactics. So he started the delay tactics again.
01:09:59
He keeps delaying the trial. Meanwhile, McElroy would sit in the local bar and talk loudly about how he was going to kill the store owner.
01:10:08
But it didn't work. The bar was empty, and it was like three people, and he was talking loudly in it.
01:10:12
I can hear you. I'm going to kill him. Fuck off, dude. Sick of that guy, right? Someone should shoot him in the neck.
01:10:20
Okay, I will. So, it didn't work. There was a trial, and McElroy was convicted of second-degree assault
01:10:29
and sentenced to two years in prison. But? But, it being Missouri, he was allowed to stay free while he appealed.
01:10:40
Oh, that's nice. Four days later, he was back in the local bar Hey, how'd your conviction go?
01:10:47
Oh, it was alright Guilty Guilty, totally fucking guilty Here I am drinking a beer
01:10:55
And then Trina came in and handed him a large gun He said he was going to kill the store owner
01:11:03
But having a gun was a violation of his parole So he was charged On the day of his hearing
01:11:11
for his parole violation, the entire town decided they had had enough. Yeah. I like the sound of this.
01:11:21
After 20 years of him fucking all their daughters. All right. That's it. But when they got to the courthouse,
01:11:31
they found out the lawyer had gotten him postponed for 10 days. Now they were pissed.
01:11:38
And they finally decided they needed to do something. and they all went to the American Legion.
01:11:42
I love that in this little town, they do have an American Legion. Yeah, you have to.
01:11:46
Great bar there, I bet. Yeah, that and the Sam's Club. So they have a town meeting,
01:11:52
and they call the sheriff and ask the sheriff to come by. The sheriff comes by and they tell him what's going on,
01:11:58
and the sheriff told them that they should Just start a neighborhood watch group.
01:12:02
Mm-hmm. That's good. So he's not very helpful. Meet Agent McGruff. He's going to help you with this case.
01:12:10
Find him very useful. So there's a guy who's been fucking your daughters and shooting you in the neck.
01:12:18
You need like a watch group. Have you guys made any kind of a phone tree or anything?
01:12:23
Called each other regularly? You guys pamphleting? What's your deal? Yeah, yeah.
01:12:26
He told them not to confront McElroy And then the sheriff just left Goodbye But like they all had titanium necks
01:12:39
Yes at this point they all have Metal neck guards Right then Trina and McElroy Show up and went to the bar for a drink
01:12:50
When the townspeople Heard this they all decided to go Have a beer Trina was said to be very intimidated
01:12:59
by all of the townspeople standing around while McElroy coolly finished his beer
01:13:05
went up and bought a six pack and then went outside outside there were three or four guys
01:13:11
and they got their rifles out of their trucks and then the entire crowd came out of the bar
01:13:19
and followed him to his truck and it was said there were at the very least 35 people
01:13:24
but probably more like 60 all standing there and Trina and McElroy then got inside the truck
01:13:32
and he coolly lit a cigarette and then Trina looked across the street and saw a man aiming a rifle
01:13:39
and she yelled, they've got a gun and then they shot at him from more than one direction
01:13:46
McElroy was hit once in the head and once in the neck and they shot the head wound
01:13:52
It was the head wound. You gotta shoot in the neck in this town. You got to. Legally.
01:13:58
Welcome to Neckville, motherfucker. Many other shots at the truck. All the shots came from different guns.
01:14:08
And McElroy died instantly. From the gunshots. No. It's from sadness. Oh, depression got him.
01:14:18
Suicide. Suicide. It looks like he did it to himself. Carbon monoxide got in. About 45 minutes later, they called an ambulance.
01:14:30
Wow. I'm sorry about that. That's sarcastic, actually. Unfortunately, no one saw the shooter.
01:14:37
Oh, yeah. A lot was going on. Except Trina, who identified him. She was in the truck, you know, and she saw him.
01:14:44
But the DA declined to press charges because everyone was like, Because he was there, too.
01:14:50
He was the guy hitting him with the iron pan on the head. The FBI came in to investigate,
01:14:59
but they also could not press any charges because everyone in the town was like, I don't know.
01:15:05
He left behind 10 children, 10 wonderful children and a few wives. After his death, cattle and hog wrestling
01:15:15
in the county dropped significantly. in 1984 Trina filed a $6 million lawsuit against the town
01:15:24
and the sheriff and the the mayor and the guy who had shot him across the street. The case was settled out of
01:15:32
court for $17,000. Oh. That's all we're making tonight. So she bought a Yaris? Yeah.
01:15:40
That's pretty cool. Owns. Owns though. Fully owns. Fully owns a Yaris. So that's my
01:15:46
favorite, Murder. That's pretty good. But God. Yeah. He was a fucking monster and they killed him. That was 1981
01:15:56
and they killed him and everyone was like, I love it. What are you going to do? We'll get there again.
01:16:03
We're on our way. Gareth? Okay, great. I'll go. Nice, Dave. Nice, Dave. That was good. Thank you.
01:16:12
You know what? The last time I came on I wrote a story about a guy from my hometown who killed women
01:16:17
and I can't do those stories because I feel weird as a guy reading stories about it.
01:16:20
Well, you're sexist. Well, to that point, I'll get into mine. This is about men killing women, right?
01:16:30
It's the same story as yours. Oh, just a different interpretation. Yeah, a totally different take.
01:16:36
I do it from the pig angle. So this will be fun. I'm from Milwaukee, Wisconsin. so ripe for
01:16:45
murders. We have Ed Gein skin Ottomans, Dahmer obvious choice. Skin Ottomans? Yeah. Did he make actual Ottomans?
01:16:54
Well I don't know. I haven't seen the whole collection. He made a nipple belt. Yeah he made a
01:16:58
nipple belt. CB2? I might have taken some creative liberties. As we all know Stephen Avery
01:17:04
so this is another story this is about the Northside Strangler who is actually this is some more good detective
01:17:12
work. So, on October 10th and 11th, 1986, two sex workers, Deborah Harris and Tanya Miller, were both strangled
01:17:19
one day apart. Both bodies found in vacant apartments. Since they were both strangled, sex workers
01:17:25
found in empty apartments. Day apart, cops thought there might be a link. So, which shows you they're
01:17:33
pretty good there. That's surprising. They're not stupid. However, this was before they were collecting
01:17:41
DNA, her DNA was shaky, so the murders went unsolved. So then June 20th, 1987, Joyce Ann Mims was found strangled in a vacant apartment by some
01:17:50
construction workers in Milwaukee's North Side. She was also believed to be a sex worker had no criminal record but George Mule Jones Mule Jones George Mule Jones Do you mean George the Mule George the Mule Jones
01:18:06
Now, is this a nickname? Does he have a big hug? Is he... Well... Is this a family name?
01:18:12
I have a theory, but we'll get there. Okay. You probably know him. Okay. Yes, we went to high school together.
01:18:20
Yeah. He said the improv a lot. George Mule Jones? Oh, my God, he's so funny. He's great. Rides it on a horse.
01:18:26
He's one of my favorite stand-ups. So they charged George Mule Jones with the murder because
01:18:34
he was friends with Mims from Cleveland and they were still friends with Mims and his girlfriend who was simply
01:18:40
known as Sugar Baby. Why not Mims? That's the coolest fucking Mims I've ever heard.
01:18:46
Well, they're different. Mims was killed. No, they are the same and she should have been
01:18:50
called Sugar Baby. I couldn't agree more, Georgia. So So, Jones had a criminal record because he was actually convicted of murder in Mississippi.
01:18:58
That doesn't mean anything. Oh, you aren't lying. He stabbed a woman and was sentenced to five years.
01:19:05
You know what? That's a long time for your first murder. Yeah, a year of stab, I think, is what they do there.
01:19:11
Like, your first murder should be, like, three. Yeah. You know what I mean? And if you do it again, well, then, all right.
01:19:15
You're seriously going to piss Georgia off, and then it's going to get fucking ugly up here.
01:19:20
I'm not going to do this. I'm going to cry, and I'm going to flip this fucking table.
01:19:22
No, but it'll be fine. Let me get my beers and my iPad. So the woman that he killed
01:19:30
was named Shamika Carter. She was killed because she made fun of George Mule Jones' inability to perform
01:19:36
sexually. That happens a lot with murderers. Isn't that one of their things? They can't get it up and then they kill?
01:19:45
If I can't get it up, I just walk away. Thank you. Could you tell your friends? shamefully. I'm like, I'm going to watch Law and Order!
01:19:57
Yeah, as long as murder's involved in some way. I'm going to watch a murder be committed instead of committing
01:20:02
my own. And then I'll be back. And then I'll be back with ideas! I might cut your buttocks!
01:20:08
And a new soundtrack. Okay, so yeah, so he went down for that killing. So then police thought, but there's still killings
01:20:16
going on. Oh, and in his apartment they found a black ski mask and nine women's shoes in his place. I have that too in my house
01:20:22
though. Nine women shoe and a ski mask? That's actually all I have in my house. Nine is a weird number.
01:20:30
It is for shoes. Unless there was a lady with just one leg. Not in my notes. Pairs of shoes.
01:20:38
So he goes down for these murders. He goes down for this murder in particular. Just one. Yes, this one.
01:20:45
But there's been three murders so far. This is the third murder. There's more to come.
01:20:50
Oh, yeah We see your papers in your hand Okay, I'm moving fast In my story, the bad guy dies
01:20:56
Okay, Dave, we were there So the idea of a serial killer was floated out by Bill Vogel
01:21:05
Who was the homicide unit in Wisconsin, in Milwaukee, Wisconsin He told the police, his chief, that he thought both women that were killed the year before were done by the same man
01:21:14
He entered with a business-like attitude, quote, to discuss the matter and I used the word cereal
01:21:19
and I got reamed out, said Vogel. Get out of here, Vogel, you son of a bitch! I don't want to hear the word cereal again!
01:21:27
I hate that podcast. I don't care if you're talking about Cheerios! Season two sucks, no?
01:21:32
I'm totally kidding, I love the podcast. Stephen, cut it. Cut it. Cut that out. Cut that, that never happened.
01:21:40
And bolt the doors. You will all unremember. No one is forgetting. Can we get the steam, whatever the fuck?
01:21:48
Gas. Are you talking about flash pots? Gas, steam. Oh, we're going to knock these people out?
01:21:53
You're damn right we are. Like the Joker of Batman. So, yeah, so his chief was like,
01:22:00
hey, man, we don't want people freaking out with the word cereal. Let's just shut up about that.
01:22:05
Okay, that's the best way to handle a possible cereal killer. Smart. Let's act like it's not happening.
01:22:12
Strangulations kept happening. in 1992 Irene Smith 25 was found dead in 1930 1932 we're going back
01:22:22
he was a time jumper I should point that out time had no meaning in this one the year was 1804 he went to
01:22:29
started a new life of murder and he did he then killed a dinosaur oh he sure did
01:22:35
so basically more people are dying more sex workers How many more? We're right now at about five.
01:22:45
Karen D. Kilpatrick, 32, was killed in 1994. Irene Smith, 25, was also in 1994. Both women were strangled.
01:22:52
Both were sex workers. Police still had no way of connecting these crimes, but there was a homicide detective named Steve Spignola
01:22:59
who was sent on finding the person. And in 1995, April 24th, Florence McCormick's body was found
01:23:08
in a shitty basement on Locust Street. It sounds like he's killing ladies whose names start with Mick.
01:23:14
I don't think that tracks in my stuff. You just fucking solved this case. I'm putting shit together.
01:23:19
The Scottish killer. Wait, he's Scottish too? I don't know. Mick murderer. I'm fucking throwing out theories.
01:23:28
Let's put shit on the board. Sure. Is there a board? I'm not sure. So, yeah, McCormick's body was found.
01:23:36
She was tied up on a sink. Her hair was neat. Fingernails suggested no struggle.
01:23:39
her socks were clean, which I'm not sure what that means, but that was pointed out.
01:23:43
That her socks were clean. Well, like she wasn't walking around outside or something?
01:23:46
I guess. They make it sound like that is how they know she was murdered. Vogel's over there in the corner just smelling her socks.
01:23:55
These are good I have never worn clean socks in my life That what I was thinking What does buys me the clean socks something fucking wrong But that means that when we die people will be like
01:24:07
It's a murder! Their socks are filthy! Which is just going to mean that I was wearing socks.
01:24:12
What does a filthy sock mean? I don't know. Look, that's for you guys. I'm merely a shepherd of this.
01:24:19
Oh, by the way, there's some take-home stuff. It's under your seats. Okay, so Spignola didn't think that there was no sexual activity, there was no semen on the body, there was no semen around the body, which he thought was possible because sometimes the killer may masturbate near the body.
01:24:40
Her body was posed, it was bound, but they thought there was some level of comfortability between the two because it seemed like there was little struggle for this.
01:24:47
So they thought that he was like, hey, let me bind you and we'll kill you. No, I don't think he threw that part out there.
01:24:53
uh, maybe a tell uh, 1995 two months after the murder of McCormick, Sheila Ferrier was discovered six blocks away in
01:25:01
Titonia, also a sex worker also in an empty apartment, this time strangled by her own brassiere
01:25:07
posed, crack pipes, crack cleaner pipe cleaners, just a lot of crack, a good scene. So it's a crack
01:25:13
house. It's an empty apartment where crack was smoked. But pipe cleaners, like for crafts? For crack
01:25:20
For crack. For crack. No one's doing crafts People are doing crack, which can lead to crafts,
01:25:26
but I don't believe that that was the direct implication, no. Okay. Yeah. So at this point, there's like...
01:25:30
There were vision boards everywhere. I'm glad we could do this. At this point, there's like seven dead women
01:25:38
all found in abandoned apartments, and they're like strangled, and they're like, I don't see a connection.
01:25:42
Cops are like, man, something's going on, huh? You hungry? Just get lunch. You know what?
01:25:48
I would say this was the same killer, but the socks are different. look at these socks are filthy
01:25:54
then they actually finally got a DNA sample they didn't really know for who but on August 30th 1995
01:26:03
there was the body of a 16 year old runaway named Jessica Payne who was found with her throat slit
01:26:09
how was she found the two young boys went to a banded mattress that they normally use as a makeshift
01:26:15
trampoline, however a normal just kids stuff, that's just boys jumping, go find a mattress
01:26:21
You've got to play with garbage. Yeah, I hope you do. As a kid, you've got to. You want to jump out a little refuse, you scamps.
01:26:26
It's cool. But this day, they weren't getting a bunch of bounce like normal. And the reason was because Jessica Payne's body was underneath it.
01:26:34
No, no, no, no, no, no. As I said, this time, there was an appearance of sexual activity.
01:26:41
Those boys are fine now. The boys are fine, yeah. So there was semen present. They had some DNA.
01:26:47
They still couldn't connect it to anybody, but they thought that this might be related.
01:26:50
A guy named Richard Gwynn was in jail. He started implicating himself in two others.
01:26:56
This guy, Sam Hathaway, shot oat. Sure. Gwynn told police he was driving. He was in the car with Hathaway, Ott, and Jessica Payne.
01:27:06
He parked in front of an abandoned residence where they remained in his vehicle conversing,
01:27:10
listening to the radio, drinking alcohol, and smoking marijuana. Just fun car games.
01:27:14
And Gwynn said at some point, Hathaway, Ott, and Payne exited the vehicle, walked to an alley,
01:27:19
and then Hathaway returned to the car followed by Ott five minutes later when Gwyn asked about Payne's whereabouts
01:27:26
Hathaway said that they had to rob Payne but her pockets were empty so Ott just cut her throat
01:27:31
Hathaway confirmed Gwyn's story providing further detail about the murder and that Ott cut Payne's throat
01:27:38
Hathaway described a situation and when he searched for her pockets he found nothing
01:27:42
so he pushed her down on the mattress pulled down her pants pulled up her shirt and tried to force her way in
01:27:47
but Hathaway said he didn't actually see that because he turned away, but when he turned back around,
01:27:51
he heard choking and gagging to see that Payne's throat was cut and that blood was gushing out.
01:27:56
Yes. David? I don't know. Okay, you're just reacting like a human. I get it. Fucking.
01:28:03
As you should. Just bumming. You know, that's what we do. Just bumming. Just bumming out.
01:28:07
Again, my guy died. So, 1995, the police found a search warrant for Ott's home. They found two box cutters and a knife among his possession.
01:28:17
that was really all the evidence that they had but Ott was sentenced to life in prison
01:28:21
with parole available in 50 years the main evidence in the trial was the two box cutters
01:28:26
the police but that sounds nothing like the other ones weird right so DNA evidence started being used in 1990
01:28:37
Wisconsin fully came around to 2015 to really collecting DNA from every violent criminal
01:28:43
1990 is where most places started collecting a database of Violent Criminals Wisconsin finished
01:28:49
in 2015. So just a mere 25 years. Yes, just a mere difference. Is that an issue for you?
01:28:59
Yeah. It's for a lot of us, yeah. So, now the police felt that they had DNA that they had found at that scene.
01:29:05
So they now had DNA from a number of women. They had DNA from the woman in 1986, two in
01:29:11
95, one in 97, and the latest there were no more murders until April 27, 2007. when Quithreen Stokes, 28, was found strangled by city inspectors
01:29:22
after they were going to inspect a vacant, boarded-up residence. They found DNA at this scene,
01:29:28
and now police had the DNA from the two women in 86, 97, all that, 2007, and it all matched to one person,
01:29:34
but the police couldn't figure out who it was. Since the DNA matched nothing in their databases,
01:29:39
they knew they were dealing with someone that had never been convicted of a violent crime before,
01:29:42
which is curious. So, two detectives of the Milwaukee Department homicide, unit, re-examined the DNA linked to the suspect, and they believed they found him.
01:29:50
So on September 7th 2009 Walter E Ellis of Milwaukee was arrested at noon at a hotel by a swarm of police officers Ellis was booked on a temporary felony warrant was being questioned by the police They took a DNA sample from his place off his toothbrush
01:30:05
and they had a match. He was even matched for the two murders that men were already serving sentences for.
01:30:11
Oops. Awkward. Here's what's crazy awkward. Not good. They should have had his DNA,
01:30:18
because it wasn't from a lack of opportunities. He was convicted of a shitload of crimes.
01:30:22
1978 felony burglary 79 drug charges 80 robbery 81 controlled substance 81 again possession with intent to distribute
01:30:30
85 soliciting and beating up two sex workers 87 retail theft 92 released for good behavior
01:30:36
92 back in for violating that good behavior 94 stabbing his girlfriend with a screwdriver
01:30:40
Not the drink 95 battery for choking his girlfriend 97 resisting arrest 98 reckless industry
01:30:48
So he had a track record But hold on, when would they have gotten any DNA? Well, because they still collected DNA.
01:30:53
They just didn't collect it from every violent criminal. Are you having fun with me?
01:30:56
Yep. Me, bastard. I am. So, the DNA was never asked for. But in 2001, police discovered that they actually had gotten his DNA.
01:31:08
What? Or at least they had at one point. There was an issue. His DNA matched nothing in their system.
01:31:13
And they know that one of two things happened. A, Ellis convinced his cellmate to submit the DNA for him.
01:31:19
Come on. Or B, it was lost in transfer to the Oshkosh Police Department who said they never received it.
01:31:26
Wait a second. Is Oshkosh where Steve and Avery... Yep. Oh. Is that also where they make the overalls?
01:31:33
Yes. It's famous for two things now, which is cool. Okay. I'm not sure which is a bigger crime.
01:31:39
It's the same police department. Same police department. This is the same fucking police department.
01:31:43
Well, it's the same. It's like the same region. Shut the fuck up. Yeah, they share a Walmart.
01:31:48
It's real. Fuck. So had they done this in the 90s, like most places, they would have stopped five to seven murders.
01:31:59
They would have stopped one if they'd done it in 2001 when it was totally expected of them.
01:32:04
So in 2008, an appeals court overturned Ott's conviction, the guy who they said cut the mattress murderer.
01:32:11
They had a new trial with new DNA evidence. 2009, they announced they would not seek a new trial.
01:32:16
Ott was freed. He served 13 years in prison for a murder he didn't commit. George Mule Jones died in prison April 30th, 2012
01:32:23
But it is not too sad Because he was also a previous murderer He just didn't do the one we talked about
01:32:29
Ellis was found Okay, good, good, good Am I doing good? Yeah, yeah Ellis was found guilty of seven murders in total
01:32:38
But he was thought to have been guilty of nine He was sentenced to seven life sentences in 2011
01:32:43
And here's the fucker He's out! He died in 2013 So he served two years. These murders went from 1986 to 2007,
01:32:53
and he was in for less than two years. How old was he? He was like in his 50s. Tell me he died painfully.
01:32:59
Like he got shamed. Hospital. He was in a hospital. I want to point out that, though,
01:33:02
even if they had had his DNA and put it through, they would have, putting it through CODIS
01:33:08
and actually checking that DNA, as we know from the rape kits that are not tested,
01:33:13
that doesn't mean he would have been caught. It's not like, oh, they should have,
01:33:15
if they had tested it and had his DNA, everything would have been fine. Like, that's not the fucking case.
01:33:19
So it's not like, oh man, you missed it. But they could have, you know, started testing
01:33:25
in that crazy 25 year window. he was also known as a fucking lunatic. Like, they,
01:33:31
everyone's like, how about this guy? everyone's like, he's crazy. He lives like,
01:33:35
he lives right around every one of these murders. Well, let's not all assume that these systems
01:33:39
that they have in place to catch people are like the end all be all. Like, it takes a lot more than that.
01:33:43
And so like, it doesn't mean that wouldn't, like these seven women wouldn't have been killed.
01:33:46
Right. you know what I mean? Yes. Sorry to be a bummer. But it's true. Between 1986 and 2007,
01:33:54
42 prostitutes were killed in Milwaukee. Only 31% of those cases have been solved.
01:34:01
And they're great there. Shit. Again, mine wrapped up super nice. I mean, well, first of all,
01:34:10
it's always hard to go last. Yeah. It's always hard to go last. But then also, that was fucking rough.
01:34:16
Yeah, dude. No, yes, great job. Yes, thank you. Great job. That's the hard strangler.
01:34:21
That's fucked up. How do you feel about it? Terrible. I really am, like, so shocked at how little they give a fuck.
01:34:30
When you really find out how... It's like politics. But when you find out that they're really just worried about what people think over actually doing good,
01:34:38
you're like, we're just fucked. Well, that's something we run across in the doll all the time.
01:34:41
Have we? How much the FBI fucks up. Can I end with something? Just a personal story?
01:34:48
So my uncle, I lived in California. I grew up in Marin County. A little bit better than Petaluma.
01:34:58
I don't know if that. But my uncle was a huge drug dealer. That's way better than Petaluma.
01:35:05
And at one point, the law was getting down on him. So he decided to move to Florida to get out of California
01:35:13
because it was the local cops. And we went to this big gone away party and he opened up a suitcase
01:35:20
that was full of just fucking cash. And I was like 12 and I was like, that's cool.
01:35:25
And then he left. And then all of his friends, the people that I had met at parties at his house,
01:35:33
about 10 of them showed up in trunks all around Marin County. Dead body trunks? One after the other.
01:35:41
Like chilling in... John's dead in a trunk. Marty's dead in a trunk. Gary's dead in a trunk.
01:35:46
Yeah, all of his friends got killed. And you're saying that's the FBI? Yes! That's insane!
01:35:53
It wasn't the gang drug dealer members that they were hanging out with. It couldn't have been them.
01:35:57
Or natural causes and just the weird bear. Good Lord, there's theory, sir. If you're going to take a nap in a trunk, it's on you.
01:36:05
That's right, it's suicide by suffocation. I forgot to mention that they lived in trunks.
01:36:12
Well, that's a huge detail. Hey, here's some good news. No updates from either of those stories.
01:36:21
We don't ever have to talk about them again. Neither does Dave, neither does Derek.
01:36:25
And we're not going to make this episode any longer than it already is. because, you know, we've learned our lessons.
01:36:30
Hey, listen. Hey, four is too many. So now we're going to do the retitling part.
01:36:35
This episode was originally called Live at the Orpheum. But if we were naming it today, perhaps we would call it That's My Madonna.
01:36:43
That's My Madonna. That's my Madonna. That's my Madonna. Because she said, fuck on CNN.
01:36:47
And she was, when I saw her, I wasn't in the streets that day. I was at home crying and exhausted, but so thrilled to see what I was seeing.
01:36:56
And then at the pinnacle of all of it, there's Madonna on CNN being like, fuck this guy.
01:37:01
Yeah. Amazing. Oh, there's also the title also vintage, which was when Georgia was introducing her story.
01:37:09
She said, mine is also vintage after the L.A. Ripper. And then I just did it again on the Rewind episode.
01:37:15
So I have no new jokes and just keep reusing them. And then it could also be called a 10 is talking.
01:37:22
I love that. That was a good one. All you fives better listen when a 10 is talking.
01:37:27
That was my favorite sign with Ruth Bader Ginsburg's picture. But it's a ripoff from a 30 Rock joke.
01:37:34
Okay. Oh, that's right. Yeah. And we don't have to say goodbye, we've realized, because we already say goodbye in the episode.
01:37:39
So we're going to let those girls from 2017 rightfully say their own goodbyes. So thanks for listening, Rewind.
01:37:46
That's right. You guys, will you please help us thank Dave Anthony? and Gareth Reynolds Thank you very much Good to all of us We appreciate it so much Thank you all for coming here This has been an amazing night
01:38:05
Hey, you guys, stay sexy. And don't get murdered! Don't get murdered! Bye! Bye! Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people.
01:38:25
Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
01:38:30
She trained in something called neuro-linguistic programming. People loved our training.
01:38:35
Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
01:38:43
A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
01:38:49
Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:38:58
This is Special Agent Regal, Special Agent Bradley Hall. In 2018, the FBI took down a ring of spies working for China's Ministry of State Security.
01:39:08
one of the most mysterious intelligence agencies in the world. The Sixth Bureau podcast is a story of the inner workings of the MSS
01:39:15
and how one man's ambition and mistakes opened its vault of secrets. Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
01:39:23
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
01:39:30
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
01:39:35
you can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast the secret world of rold doll
01:39:41
all episodes are out now was this before he wrote his stories it must have been what okay i don't
01:39:47
think that's true i'm telling you i was a spy binge all 10 episodes of the secret world of rold
01:39:52
doll now on the iheart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts