00:00:00
This is exactly right. of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan
00:00:33
as of January 2026. For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. Will Ferrell's Big Money Players and iHeart Podcast presents Soccer Moms.
00:00:41
So I'm Leanne. Yeah. This is my best friend, Janet. Hey. And we have been joined at the hip since high school.
00:00:46
Absolutely. A redacted amount of years later, we're still joined at the hip. Just a little bit bigger hips.
00:00:51
This is a podcast, we're recording it as we tailgate our youth soccer games in the back of my Honda Odyssey.
00:00:56
With all the snacks and drinks. drinks. Why did you get hard seltzer instead of beer? Oh, they had a BOGO.
00:01:02
Well, then you got them. Listen to Soccer Moms on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
00:01:06
or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive. But now, there's a new and exciting
00:01:14
way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence. Joy 101. It's a new podcast
00:01:20
hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid,
00:01:26
uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101,
00:01:33
and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. hello and welcome to rewind with karen and georgia every wednesday we recap our old shows with all
00:02:01
new commentary and updates and insights today we're recapping episode 55 let's hear your podcast
00:02:07
After the colon of that would be shut the fuck up Facebook or something along those lines.
00:02:12
Let's hear your podcast. Oh, yeah? All this feedback? Yeah, for sure. Okay, so this episode came out February 9th, 2017.
00:02:20
Oh, little baby. So long ago. Let's listen to the intro of episode 55. Hi, how are you?
00:02:29
How are you? Hi. is that supposed to sound conversational or just into like simultaneous can i be honest i don't
00:02:38
know what we're doing i don't either but i like the arm raise part i think it's kind of like a
00:02:44
and we're off like a um conduct but like we're conductors an orchestra yeah a murder orchestra
00:02:50
now i think this is like episode 55 and we still haven't figured out how to start this stupid
00:02:56
fucking podcast. But really it's space. It's like episode three though, because this is the third
00:03:01
episode of my new apartment. So it's like third or second? I have three, third, third. Yeah. Yeah.
00:03:08
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So we're getting used to it. You know, like we don't know. It's
00:03:12
just different. Feel it out. It's definitely different. It's different. I can see the kitchen.
00:03:16
I'm staring at that. There's totally new blinds. Yeah. It's big. It's definitely a bigger space.
00:03:25
Yeah. It feels like we have to fill more. It doesn't feel like mine yet. So I like, we're podcasting at a stranger's house.
00:03:33
Right. Like, I don't want to spill anything on the couch. I love this couch, by the way.
00:03:37
Thank you. It's really good. I want it. I got a deal on it. Yeah, it's very smart of you.
00:03:44
Thank you. Ikea. Guys. Hey, hi. Hi. Oh, hi. This is the furniture hour. This is introspection evening.
00:03:56
This is apartment introspection. I would like to say just as a kicker offer, I got in a lot of trouble that I haven't yet watched
00:04:04
the Slender Man documentary from one Miss Julie Klausner. Really? Who I saw last week because she did Guy's show
00:04:10
when I was working on it. And it was the first thing she said to me is, oh my God, can you believe the Slender Man?
00:04:15
Don't you love that about people now? Is that the first thing they talk to you about is murder?
00:04:18
And they're so mad when you don't know what they're talking about or that you haven't watched it.
00:04:22
Okay, can I just say, love Julie Klausner, her book, I Don't Care About Your Man, amazing.
00:04:26
She's fucking, that was the stupidest fucking documentary. Ooh, girl. Dude. Yes.
00:04:31
It just was like- Shots fired. Shots fired. It was a really cool documentary about psychological issues
00:04:38
that the two girls who stabbed the shit out of their friend had. Yes, yes. But as far as like the folklore
00:04:44
of the Slender Man, it just like wasn't compelling. It was cool. like there were two different documentaries.
00:04:51
One was about like creepy pasta and like cool stories that people online write about like creepy things.
00:04:58
Yes. And one was about two girls who have some serious mental issues. Right. So I just didn't love it.
00:05:04
Were you looking for more of that Slender Man folklore story and it just was too much of real people?
00:05:09
No, I knew, I already, I went in knowing that it wouldn't be, that it wouldn't, I wouldn't be happy with it.
00:05:16
Right. Because I'd read about it a lot And like, I love the old like black and white photos that like purportedly show Slender
00:05:23
Man in the background and it's fucking cool as shit. Slender Man is the fakest of all of those.
00:05:28
Like, first of all, creepypasta. I want to get into it. And anytime, you know, like last podcast on the left has episodes that where they read
00:05:35
listeners creepypastas and I can practically see the 14 year old boy writing it at his
00:05:42
desk. Like it is so, because you get kind of hooked in. And there was one, I remember one, not on that podcast, but one time reading by myself at home.
00:05:52
And it was about these guys that had found this hole And on the website I think I may have found it on Reddit I can remember where it was like guys who found a hole that they kept going into They were like basically caving
00:06:05
And then it's like they basically climbed in at one point really far and kind of got stuck.
00:06:12
And then something came at them at the end. Yeah, they're like they're made up horror stories or like creepy stories.
00:06:19
And that's cool. But yeah, it's like a little. Well, the problem is that with all storytelling, the hardest part is the ending.
00:06:26
The hardest part is why are you telling this whole thing? What is it going to lead up to?
00:06:30
And commas, which are, they're lacking endings and commas. And maybe accurate spelling.
00:06:37
Accurate spelling and punctuation. The whole thing is basically a visit to a junior high class I never had to be in because I'm too old.
00:06:45
If I were 20 and I could read this shit and the internet like existed in its form now, I would be so obsessed.
00:06:54
Yeah. But I'm not and I can't and I won't. And for this Slender Man, it's like, well, I never heard one hint or hair of Slender Man when I was growing up, which means this isn't even based in reality.
00:07:05
It's not like an old witch that it's like, did you hear about that? Did you hear about the Blair Witch?
00:07:09
Bloody Mary, Bloody Mary. Did you hear or tell? this Slenderman is as it's almost like they did they did some test focused groups at the mall of
00:07:19
like what would scare you a really tall skinny man in the back of the playground hot topic yes
00:07:24
which like I work there I'm not trying to talk I am talking shit but I work there too so fuck you
00:07:28
it's it's kind of like Jack Skellington's head got stretched yeah instead of Jack Skellington
00:07:34
being sweet with a big round pumpkin head his head got stretched and he turned strangely evil
00:07:39
and he just decided to lurk. The best part of this documentary to me was the girl who ends up having like serious mental issues
00:07:47
that stabbed their friend, which I think is an interesting story if you're into true crime.
00:07:51
The mother, her mother that they interview, like there's something mentally wrong with her.
00:07:57
Like she's a kind of like crazy in this really subtle way. And like that study to me,
00:08:04
like watch it if you're into that, like and tell me what's going on there. because she's trying to be so empathetic,
00:08:10
but it's so creepy and not right. It's like if Ted Bundy were trying to be empathetic,
00:08:16
like when he has that weird interview and you're like, something is off here. Wait, hold on.
00:08:20
Knock, knock, knock. Yes, who is it? Oh, we are being sued by the mother of the Slenderman child murderer.
00:08:26
I didn't say her fucking name, man. Well, I didn't say her name, Slenderman. Well, but also isn't that what everybody's watching
00:08:32
any of those things for is like, basically you're the armchair psychologist and you're watching because it's like, yeah, you're right. Two kids, two 12 year old girls,
00:08:40
as intense as being in junior high for girls is. And I would, I was literally and truly,
00:08:45
we've talked about it a million times, would not go back for $5 million. I would never go back.
00:08:50
I mean, $5 million. No, you would spend it by the time you got to our age. That's a stupid fucking idiot. But it doesn't happen out of nowhere. And so there are those
00:09:02
weird combinations of things that happen. If like, if you don't have, I'm like, thank God I had an
00:09:08
older sister that told me to shut up all the time. Cause then I actually did shut up some of the time.
00:09:13
And so I didn't suffer 99% of the time. Thank God I had a mom and a sister who made me feel so bad
00:09:19
about myself that I was scared to say anything. And so I didn't say most of the shit.
00:09:24
yes it's it's true i mean i yeah um also turns out wuchester is nuts it's wooster
00:09:36
did you know that uh i wouldn't have known it from spelling it's worchester it's spelled
00:09:43
worchester yeah and it's pronounced wooster wooster i think you have to do the like wooster
00:09:48
yeah you have to talk like marky mark walbert i didn't know how am i supposed to know we are
00:09:54
from california yeah yeah no people who live in boston are from boston get real up in arms about
00:10:01
wooster wooster um that that's corrections corner oh okay do you have any uh not offhand yeah i think
00:10:10
we totally nailed it last week there's not one thing that we said incorrect except wooster
00:10:15
except wooster uh also i haven't i haven't admittedly i've been working so much yeah that
00:10:22
I haven't been able to be online or make any mistakes or make mistakes. I've just been,
00:10:28
I nail it. You know, I feel like when I work, I just nail it constantly. Like you don't have time to think. And so your brain isn't like second guessing.
00:10:35
I don't get in my own way. I just like naturally good. You're the best one. You're just being you. You guys always be you unless you're a murderer.
00:10:44
There's not a meme. Yeah. Uh, is it? Yeah. That you just made up. Always be yourself. No, it's not mine. Always be yourself. Unless you're a murderer, then
00:10:54
don't be yourself. I don't know. That's hilarious and catchy. It should be one if it's not.
00:11:01
I can't tell if you're making fun of me. I am absolutely. Good. Good. That was a lot. Do we have to talk about this tour? We're now basically like
00:11:13
the Eagles where we're on tour every weekend. We had a meeting where we found out how many more tour dates are coming.
00:11:21
If you live in some part of the United States where we have, we are not like on record as to be visiting yet.
00:11:30
Then you can stop tweeting at us. Yeah. Don't worry. Come to South Carolina. We'll probably.
00:11:35
Don't be mad at us just because we're in this part. We're not. It's not about that.
00:11:39
Texas, we hear you. Yeah. Texas, we hear you. This isn't the one. This isn't the only one.
00:11:44
Yeah. Hopefully. Fingers crossed. There seems to be so much more that I as we were having that meeting and we making these plans I was like I have to get like my teeth fixed What I have to get my teeth fixed so that I not on a plane and somehow like some too like I like I have that That my anxiety of like we going to be traveling and I going to be in some weird place And then all of a sudden it like
00:12:09
Mine is that I'm going to die and not like in a weird place. Just like, oh, suddenly you're just dead.
00:12:15
Yeah, that I'm going to die or that Vince is going to die. And we're like, the thought of someone dying when you're not close to them or you dying and you're far away, like is so much worse to me than like, than dying in the same city somehow.
00:12:29
That's worse. Than someone dying directly next to you with their eyes open staring at you.
00:12:34
Yeah, like at least I can be next to you the whole time instead of like, how did I go through the airport security?
00:12:39
Oh, that's true. And I can't do anything to help and like, ugh. I mean, there's no, yeah, there's nothing good about it. Traveling is going to be fun with me,
00:12:47
Karen. I mean, I feel like we should start stockpiling pills now. Yeah. Just like whatever
00:12:53
pills we can get our hands on. Don't send us your fucking Etsy merch. We want pills. Unless
00:12:59
you're adding. Is this illegal? We're not fucking sending it. Yes. Or, or, or, or, or, because we
00:13:07
have these feelings and we know about them. They were going to have like very peak experiences,
00:13:13
because it's like, whoa, we lived and that was fun. And we saw that one river or whatever.
00:13:19
And everything was fine. And everything was fine. And then we got back home. Yeah, that's my like, I mean,
00:13:23
I work on this a lot in therapy where it's like, what if you get home and everything was fine?
00:13:27
Aren't you gonna be bummed that you were worrying the whole time? Like what a waste of this fucking incredible experience.
00:13:33
Right. Also, I'm gonna leave a note in every hotel Bible. I don't know why. What?
00:13:40
What's it gonna say? I don't know. I just like, that's my like plan to get excited about something.
00:13:44
I'm going to leave a note in every hotel Bible hotel room that I stay in, in their Bible.
00:13:48
Can I make a suggestion? Yes. What if you just draw a middle finger, like just a drawing of just a hand flipping off your middle finger,
00:13:58
my correct middle finger. Wait, remember we got, Oh, that's right. Huge fight. Yeah, that's right.
00:14:03
One of our big fights. The nervous fight. I mean, I'm not, I wonder, I'm not going to draw on a Bible.
00:14:08
I'm going to put a post-it note in a Bible. A post-it note of a middle finger. Yeah, for.
00:14:11
I don't know why that's the first thing that popped in my head. I went to Catholic school, so maybe it was just like worst case scenario.
00:14:17
Yeah. Or a big Jewish star. We got it first. Put a Jewish star right where the New Testament starts.
00:14:23
Yeah. As if to say. It doesn't exist. It's like a stop sign, but it's a Jewish star.
00:14:28
What if in the beginning where it says, do they have an opening like the Bible? The Bible.
00:14:33
Written by. Yeah. I'll just put a, I'll just change it to the Torah. People are like, what the hell?
00:14:41
Yeah. the Torah actually. I'll write that. Uh, in it actually, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Sorry. Uh,
00:14:51
there's a couple of people that have tweeted us and they figured out how to write. I'm sorry.
00:14:54
And the I'm is tiny. I don't know how they did that. Do you how that like the text of I'm is
00:15:01
really small. No, I don't know how they did that. I don't either. It was pretty cool. Someone actually
00:15:06
tweeted us and it said, I'm sure someone's already done this, but look, and then it said, I'm sorry.
00:15:11
I bet it's those fucking young, creepypasta fucking Slenderman kids who know how to work the internet like we don't.
00:15:18
It's some 14-year-old boy who we had been shitting on who was like, but I made the I'm sorry text for you.
00:15:24
Who stopped listening five minutes. Was it five minutes ago? Because he was like, oh, I'm not wanted here.
00:15:29
One hot tear burning down his cheek. Oh, honey, come back. Underneath his transition lenses.
00:15:39
Listen, we're your mothers. We're trying to make you get out and fucking play in the street.
00:15:43
That's right. Please play in the street. Go talk to strangers. Like get to know people.
00:15:49
Like don't sit in home and like write Slenderman fucking cosplay. They're like, but this whole time you've been telling me to stay at home and not talk to strangers.
00:15:57
Wait, not cosplay. Not trust anybody. What's the one where they were like Kermit and like Gonzo bone each other?
00:16:03
Oh, like erotic fan fiction? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. My God, I'm aging myself so much. Dude.
00:16:09
we might die before this tour even starts. Let's get honest. All right. Should we start this thing?
00:16:21
All right. We're back. We're back. We're in the pod loft now permanently. Your pod loft dream has come true. You're in there. You put all that stuff up on the wall.
00:16:30
I've got the cats, which just that's the thing that makes it home. Right. Like that
00:16:35
moment when you're moving and you bring your pets over. Yeah. And you're like, this is where you
00:16:39
live now. And you watch them smell stuff. And that's how you know. Yeah. Right. That's right.
00:16:44
Oh, did you ever watch the Slender Man documentary? Me? No. Yeah. You know, I mean, I know we talked
00:16:49
about it, but it like that story and those girls that going that far because they're in this
00:16:55
exactly that age where you're so weird and you get the craziest ideas and you are trying to find
00:17:01
who you are and it's just like and no one stepped in to go enough of this already and you're so
00:17:07
susceptible to suggestion right yes like you're like primed to be in a cult essentially to be like
00:17:14
there's a 16 foot very thin man always behind the slide on the playground like no there isn't and
00:17:21
you just figured out santa doesn't exist of course you're gonna believe dealing with that
00:17:26
psychological fucking shit. Yeah. No, I never watched it. You watched it. Yeah. Well, I can
00:17:33
give you an update on that case. It took place in 2014 and Anissa Weyer was released from a state
00:17:40
psychiatric facility in 2021 at age 19. She's the one who committed the crime. She's living under
00:17:46
strict supervision with GPS monitoring and no internet access, and she's required to continue
00:17:51
new psychiatric treatment. And then Morgan Geiser who actually carried out the stabbing is still in a state hospital In January 2025 a Wisconsin judge granted her conditional release from the Winnebago Mental Health Institute saying she no longer posed
00:18:05
a danger. But her actual move has been delayed several times. In 2025, in April, her planned
00:18:12
group home placement was halted after it was revealed to be just eight miles from her victim's
00:18:16
home. Horrible. Yeah. And the judge instructed the Department of Health Services to create a new
00:18:21
placement plan and Geyser was returned to the mental hospital while they complete that plan.
00:18:25
So that's the update as of now. And also that is just kind of like this sad, true underbelly of
00:18:32
this case, which is it's a mental illness gone unchecked issue in children. Yes. Together. Yeah.
00:18:40
I mean, just horrible. Folly adieu. Speaking of, let's get into Karen's story about Christine
00:18:46
and Lea Papin. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:18:57
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets.
00:19:07
And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air. So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:19:17
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:19:24
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:19:31
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything.
00:19:35
And me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:19:40
And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off. And that was the last time I saw him.
00:19:45
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:20:15
of divorced moms whose kids have gone off to college who have decided they're going to start living life for themselves.
00:20:22
Or the time Baron Vaughn got distracted by the majestic scenery. Then there's a freaking deer right there on the side of the road.
00:20:28
Oh, that's great. Holy shit. Eating freaking road grass. Road grass. I wish you said glass.
00:20:35
New episodes drop every Monday on the Exactly Right Network. Listen to Do You Need a Ride on the iHeartRadio app,
00:20:41
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. You're welcome. In 2023, Bachelor star Clayton Eckerd was accused of fathering twins,
00:20:52
but the pregnancy appeared to be a hoax. You doctored this particular test twice in so-and-so, correct?
00:20:58
I doctored the test once. It took an army of internet detectives to uncover a disturbing pattern.
00:21:04
Two more men who'd been through the same thing. Greg Gillespie and Michael Mancini.
00:21:09
My mind was blown. I'm Stephanie Young. This is Love Trapped. Laura, Scottsdale Police.
00:21:15
As the season continues, Laura Owens finally faces consequences. Listen to Love Trapped podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:21:27
Who's first this week? Karen Kay. Stephen. Stephen and I. Thank God. Okay. This.
00:21:40
Now. Now that I don't have a job. It was super fun to sit down in front of my computer and have nothing else fucking standing over me.
00:21:51
Isn't that fun? And get into something. And here's how I found this murder specifically.
00:21:59
I had one packet left of the murder cards. Those serial killer or murderer cards.
00:22:08
Like true crime playing cards or something? um not the cold case playing cards but they were just the bait like baseball cards yeah
00:22:15
remember that we got steven did you get us those for christmas yes he's like yeah you motherfuckers
00:22:21
yes yes i did um so i had one pack left i looked over i was sitting in i was like
00:22:28
crick crick crick ready to find some story and then i looked over she just cracked her finger
00:22:33
oh yeah that's me cracking my knuckles and um i looked over and i had one packet unopened of
00:22:38
those cards. It's a sign. I open it up. There's of course, three mafia guys where it's like
00:22:43
enough already with you people. Um, Eileen Wuornos is in there. Hi, how are you? Exciting,
00:22:49
but you know, well-trod territory. Sure. Then I come upon this. Oh my God, oh my God, oh my God,
00:22:54
oh my God. And this is the best idea to get murderers. Cause I'm like, what am I going to
00:22:58
fucking do? I should just shuffle a deck and pick one that's not mobbed. Cause there's tons of good
00:23:02
ones. Uh, and they start you off like you know every detail and then you can be like, oh yeah,
00:23:07
there is enough there. This is the kind I want to talk about. I'm sorry. Do that again with your paper.
00:23:11
Cause that was, and so also I just really enjoyed, like I was typing. It was all for myself.
00:23:20
I didn't have to turn it in. Nobody was waiting for me to turn it in. Yeah. Girl,
00:23:24
honey, I like it. Okay. Come with me back to France. Ooh. February 2nd, 1933. Ooh.
00:23:32
That's right. So a man named Monsieur Lancelon is supposed to have dinner with his wife and daughter
00:23:43
at their friend's house. He gets there first, they're supposed to meet him there.
00:23:48
At 6.30, they don't show up. So he goes home to see what's taking them so long. He arrives to find the front door is bolted from the inside
00:23:57
and the only light on in the entire house is the glow of a single candle. So he knows that something is terribly wrong.
00:24:05
So he goes to the police station because he thinks a prowler has broken in. He brings the police back to the house
00:24:11
and two officers climb the back wall and break in the back door. Inside, all the lights in the house are out
00:24:19
and it's totally silent. They look around the ground floor with their flashlights.
00:24:25
They're quietly looking around because they're all thinking there's a prowler inside the house.
00:24:30
Um, and they start to climb the back stairs quietly. Um, and when they're almost to the
00:24:38
first floor landing, so basically the ground floor, they're calling the first floor, the
00:24:43
ground floor and the second floor, the first floor in this story. I don't know if it's a French thing.
00:24:47
I found it very confusing, but it's basically ground floor, first floor, second floor. Right.
00:24:53
I did that with my hands visually only for Georgia. Sorry, everybody at home. Okay. So
00:24:58
as they're almost to the first floor, it's really the second floor, landing, the first officer
00:25:07
on the stairs sees a white marble on the stair in front of him. So he leans down to pick it up.
00:25:14
It's an eyeball. Yes, yes, yes, yes. We're off to the races. No, ew. It's a human
00:25:21
eyeball. No, no, no. And looking up at him. So they climb the last few steps to the first floor, which is actually the second floor.
00:25:29
And they find the bodies of Mrs. L'Ansella and her daughter, her adult daughter, brutally murdered.
00:25:35
Oh my God. Their faces, quote, reduced to a pulp. Oh my, that, oh, I've read a couple of those
00:25:43
and that blows my mind over time. I was super bummed because after I read this card,
00:25:48
read the Wikipedia page, then I found on YouTube, which I highly recommend, a British crime series.
00:25:55
and now there's all these ones I want to watch. I, of course, forgot to write down what the name of it is,
00:26:01
but this one was about them. And they had all these French experts and all these people, whatever.
00:26:05
And the British narrator also spoke French. So he pronounced all these names really well.
00:26:12
But there is a- Good for him. Good for him. You know what? That's how it is over there in Europe.
00:26:18
Great. We're happy for him. There is a picture of this crime scene that I accidentally saw.
00:26:27
I don't. From 1933. And it is so fucking awful. I want to see it. Is that gross?
00:26:35
No, I mean, that's what some people are all about. I'm not normally about it because it sticks.
00:26:42
My brain takes a picture of it and I can look back at it anytime I want to, which then I'll do that all the time.
00:26:48
So I normally don't. But there was a part where they talk about how the adult daughter, um, Jean-Vivre, that her calves and butt were stabbed and slashed. And as
00:27:01
they're explaining that part, the picture just pans across. Oh, they don't even tell you. Yeah.
00:27:06
They don't, they didn't prep you in any way. And it was really horrifying. Like it was really,
00:27:12
really gruesome and, and like, and not just like thin knife marks, like these big, huge open gashes
00:27:21
and like as many as you could fit on the back of both legs. Fuck, are you serious?
00:27:27
Yeah, it was horrible. Then it pans out and shows both. And these women, you can't see their faces.
00:27:34
They're so, it's such a gruesome attack. Yeah, bashing the head to pulp. I saw like a crime scene photo once
00:27:44
on like cold case files where you couldn't see the guy's head because there was like, he had a hoodie on
00:27:49
and there was just nothing there. Yes. And I did not want to see that. That's how this is.
00:27:54
It's really upsetting because it's like the front of them looks, they look like old fashioned 30s women.
00:28:00
Yeah. And then, yeah, horrifying. Fuck, dude. So it really is that. Okay, so the officers there,
00:28:09
so they come upon the scene. They said there's teeth and bone on the floor. It's like, it's just, it's brutal.
00:28:16
Carnage. So they're thinking, okay, this murderer is still in the house because the front door is bolted from the inside.
00:28:25
So they go up to the second story. Third story. Third, third for us, second for France.
00:28:32
And they're checking everything. They check every single room and they check the laundry room
00:28:37
and they see that there is an iron sitting there with a wrinkled shirt on the ironing board.
00:28:43
And they realize that the maids in the house were surprised while they were working.
00:28:47
and interrupted during their work. And so they're like, okay, so there's two maids
00:28:55
that are probably also the victims of this guy in this house. So they're like, holy shit.
00:29:00
So room by room, they're looking for this guy, you know, the intruder and these bodies.
00:29:06
How scary, like with a fucking flashlight doing that. Horrifying, right? Once they see that, once they see the actual first murder scene
00:29:13
and then they find in the laundry room that the maids were there and that their work was interrupted.
00:29:19
They go back downstairs. They let the sergeant into the house. And then the other policemen send for the superintendent,
00:29:27
the examining magistrate, and the coroner. And then the police go back up and continue to search the rest of the house.
00:29:35
And it finally ends at the maids' chambers. They find that that room is bolted from the inside.
00:29:43
So they're like, okay, this guy's in this room. they worry that the dead bodies of the maids are in there with him
00:29:51
so they call a locksmith and so then they wait around for the locksmith to come and they listening at the door while they wait for the locksmith and it dead silent locksmiths take time i know right in like a little french village um so i said this is back when doors were actually made of something you couldn just break it down
00:30:09
by like throwing your shoulder into it twice like every cop show which then made me think of the
00:30:15
time that my sister uh i really wanted to borrow this pink and black pinstripe jumpsuit of my
00:30:22
sisters in high school. Horrible. It's so eighties. It looked like it was like black and pink
00:30:28
pinstripe, black and pink pinstripe, jumpsuit. So it was like black lapel, black buttons,
00:30:33
a black patent leather belt. Yes. It sounds, you know what? It sounds snazzy. It's snazzy jazz
00:30:40
hands. Jumpsuit. What's your name? Snazzy jazz hands. My sister who was a lot thinner than me in
00:30:48
high school was like, no, you can't borrow it. It'll look bad on you, which it did. But she was
00:30:52
like, had no problem being like, don't do it. So then I made my mom make her lend it to me.
00:30:59
And she's like, fine. And gave it to me, but she didn't give me the belt. So the middle part was
00:31:04
just elastic without the belt with two loops that the belt was supposed to go through. And it made
00:31:10
me so angry that I kicked a hole in the bottom of my sister's bedroom door because we were home
00:31:15
alone. So my sister was like, fine, you can borrow it and threw it at me, but then there's no belt.
00:31:19
So it was like the whole thing fell apart. So I thought it was just like the culmination of
00:31:23
everything kicked a hole in the bottom of her door. She opened the door like, holy shit. And
00:31:28
then we were both like, oh no, like now we're dead. Cause it was both. It doesn't matter that
00:31:33
you did it. You did it because she was pissing you off. We're both in trouble. So you're both
00:31:37
in fucking trouble and big trouble. Cause my dad did not play with stuff like that. Like he was,
00:31:42
he would get really mad. So we took one of those, remember those really big Mrs. Grossman stickers?
00:31:48
There was like really big hearts, really kind of basic teddy bears. It was like the first sticker
00:31:54
wave of the early eighties. So I had a really huge Mrs. Grossman sticker and we just stuck it
00:31:59
at the bottom of my sister's door. I think it's sweet that she like helped you. Yeah. She had,
00:32:04
well, she had to. I know, but it's also like sweet. Yeah. She knew she was being an asshole.
00:32:09
Then my mom came home from work Is like you think I'm stupid Like I know you didn't put a sticker
00:32:14
At the bottom of Laura's door for no reason And it's like concave too And we were super scared
00:32:21
And then my mom goes No you do realize that your dad Because my dad had eight brothers and sisters
00:32:27
When they would fight They fought one time so bad That they were chasing one brother
00:32:33
That one brother locked himself in the room And the other brothers took the door off the hinges
00:32:37
To get to him Holy shit. And she's like, no, he has, he'll have nothing to say about this.
00:32:41
Don't worry about it. It's not annoying about parents. It's like, you never know what's going to fucking piss them off.
00:32:45
That's exactly right. Like if you act scared, then they'll be on your side. Yeah.
00:32:49
And if you're like, yeah, fuck it. I kicked a thing. And then you're like, you're grounded for eight days.
00:32:54
Anyhow, listen, it's like the locksmith shows up because they had to literally break in that
00:32:59
way. Okay. I forgot where we were. I know. Now we're back in France and a horrible, horrible murder has cut from Sacramento to France.
00:33:06
Petaluma. Petaluma. They push He pushes a thing He makes the key fall out of the other side
00:33:16
They open the door And the two maids are in bed Sleeping? No With puppies? Just with each other
00:33:23
Sisters Just in their robes And One of the maids says We were expecting you Wait
00:33:31
They're not dead? No Next to the bed There's a candle on a stool and next to the candle, there's a hammer covered in blood.
00:33:40
So cool. That's right, girl. Oh my God. I was not. I thought it was the dad. Oh my God.
00:33:49
I was not expecting that. I really made it. So I twisted and turned you on this one.
00:33:54
You're a good storyteller. Thank you. It's because I hated my sister so much. Thanks, Laura.
00:34:04
Thanks a lot. It's all to her doing. So the police ask them, what did you do to your masters?
00:34:11
And the older maid replies, they wanted to hit me. I would rather do my masters in than let them do us in.
00:34:19
But like with a thousand blows. Yeah. Holy shit. The police ask their names and the maid tells them that she is Christine Papin
00:34:27
and the other maid is her younger sister, Leah. Or Leah, I'm sure. When the police sergeant accuses them of murdering the mother and the daughter,
00:34:35
Leah cries out, they shouldn't have threatened us. And the police start to focus their questioning
00:34:41
on Leah because she seems to be the more fragile of the two. But then with just one look from her
00:34:48
sister, she falls silent and Christine tells the police that Leah is deaf and dumb. And then Leah
00:34:54
doesn't say another word and the police take them away. Okay. So the mother and daughter have mortal
00:35:05
stab wounds to the head and face, as I already said. The daughter has stab wounds to the butt
00:35:11
and calves. The maid slashed the women's faces open and then smashed their heads with a heavy
00:35:17
pewter pot. There was blood going up all the walls and both women had their eyes pulled out.
00:35:28
What have we said? Leave the eyes alone. Leave him alone, but not these two. Their dresses-
00:35:36
Oh my God, were they alive when their eyes got? Yes. Do you think they were alive when their eyes got?
00:35:40
They were. Plucked? Yeah. We'll hear about that later. Oh no, I don't want details.
00:35:45
You're going to get them. Oh shit. The dresses were, both of their dresses were pulled up and their underwear were pulled down.
00:35:52
That's weird. So that they were exposed. But the experts in this documentary talk about how this was like one of those crime scenes that was from the beginning was compromised because the cops were walking through it
00:36:05
They didn't even know they were walking through it. The locksmith walked through it.
00:36:10
The crime scene photographer walked through it. And because of the time, they pulled up the dresses.
00:36:17
They pulled up the underwear and pulled down the dresses so that they could take the crime scene photo.
00:36:21
They didn't leave it as it was. To be decent. Yes, exactly. Um, so Christine, uh, the older sister, the older maid was questioned and she said that the iron had broken the day before they had to have it fixed. So the iron broke again that day and they knew their mistress would be angry.
00:36:41
I'm sorry. Iron's fucking break, dude. Well, what's interesting, and I wish there was more to be found out about what this family was actually like.
00:36:50
Yeah. Because it's one of those things where now they're dead and you can't know.
00:36:55
Yeah. It was this really intense, like hideous job. Anyway. I mean, if you get mad at someone for something that they have absolutely no control over, like what else do you get pissed about?
00:37:09
Right. Are you some kind of crazed monster, like mommy dearest type boss? Yeah. So, so Christine says that when Mrs. Lancelot, when she told Mrs. Lancelot the iron was broken again, that, that her mistress set upon her.
00:37:30
So as she saw her coming at her, Christine decided to leap at her face and tear her eyes out with her fingers.
00:37:38
Yeah. And then the daughter came in because she heard that going on. And as she heard that, Christine yelled to Leah, tear her eyes out.
00:37:49
Holy fuck. And then the, so Leah does it to the daughter. No. Yes. Then the both women are on their knees, like holding their eyes, holding their faces.
00:38:02
And that like, dude. And that's when they started, that's when they pick up the, they, they started hitting
00:38:09
in the head with this pewter pot that was nearby. And then one of them went downstairs and got the
00:38:15
other instrument. So they went to the kitchen and got a knife and a hammer and brought it back
00:38:20
upstairs. Like the moment your eyes have been plucked out, you know, you have no hope. Like
00:38:24
there's no, no, it's getting at it. There's no, like, they're not going to like, it's not going
00:38:29
to be a fight and then they're going to walk away. Yeah. No, no. I mean, then, then they're
00:38:33
helpless. Also, it's just so goddamn horrifying. You're starting, you're starting with the
00:38:39
fucking the death blow well also who can do that oh my god who can do that i can't imagine it's easy
00:38:48
like it's an easy thing to do like not even not even just the i don't even mean either i don't
00:38:55
even like pulling someone's i like the actual strength and like exactly what's it called uh
00:39:02
agility no fortitude fortitude and um with your hand yes agility i think you're like i could be
00:39:08
able to know how to do it yeah no it's and it's just the grossest like yeah like a haunted house
00:39:15
where like it's like oh cow eyeballs in a bowl or whatever and like you don't even want to put
00:39:19
your hand in what are basically grapes covered in you know whatever like they do stuff like that
00:39:25
where it's just like boo it even just the feeling of it much less yanking them out and the fact that
00:39:30
they could both do it like the sister was like you do that too and she wasn't like no yeah she
00:39:34
was like, I'm on this. Okay. Uh, at the end of her testimony, Christine said, I have no regrets.
00:39:44
You don't have one or two. I mean, it's okay. Well, you can think about it for a little while.
00:39:49
No, no, no, no. Nothing comes to mind. Feel good about all of it. Uh, and the thing that freaked
00:39:57
the cops out were Leah's answers were exactly the same as Christine's. So they knew they weren't
00:40:02
getting the full story because it was such a rehearsed story. Yeah. So. However, okay, go ahead.
00:40:09
What? Nothing. I mean, the fact that they're admitting to such horrifying things was like, well, what
00:40:14
else is there that they're keeping from them? Yeah. This isn't like the worst thing they could ever say.
00:40:19
No. And it wasn't like they're trying to blame them. Right. They're blaming them for being a bitch about the iron.
00:40:26
Yeah. That's as bad as it got. Yeah. Yeah, they weren't saying, well, they beat us every single day or anything.
00:40:32
We just snapped because they were so awful to it. You know, it's like, oh, we fucking went after the balls of their eyes.
00:40:38
We went for it. Okay, so they find out that the upbringing is basically they had an unhappy,
00:40:47
parents who were unhappily married. The mother was thought to be very disturbed.
00:40:52
They had an older sister who was sent to live at a Catholic orphanage who eventually became a nun and like moved away.
00:41:02
Christine was sent to live with her aunt for the first seven years of her life and was supposed to be happy.
00:41:09
Then Leah was born and both girls were sent to a Catholic orphanage by this mother.
00:41:14
So the mother was just like not handling anything. When she's 15 though, the mother takes Christine out of the orphanage
00:41:22
and places her to work as a maid. So that's when she started working as a maid when she was 15 years old.
00:41:28
and in 1926 in april of 1926 christine starts working at the launcelan's house and then when
00:41:35
lee is old enough she comes and joins her sister um you know so basically mrs launcelan said to be
00:41:42
a demanding mistress she liked her house very clean the girls were up at seven o'clock every
00:41:47
morning cooking cleaning going to the market they worked 14 hour days they had like an hour off here
00:41:54
and there They were free to leave the house or just go up to their room But a lot of there a lot of theories that this was basically that at this period of time these were like
00:42:06
it was the bourgeoisie who were exploiting the working class. Yeah, for sure. So it was like, I'll pay you a pittance, you're going to come,
00:42:12
and you're just basically going to work for as long as I want you to. Like you're available 24 hours a day.
00:42:17
Yes. I mean, yeah, it wasn't like there were workers' rights back then. Exactly.
00:42:22
It's kind of like how we are with Stephen. do our bidding maybe i'll buy you del taco um oh yeah steven you owe her two bucks for that
00:42:30
for the number four combo uh okay so both uh of those both of the papas sisters are found to be sane
00:42:45
um and they say their relationship was not found to be suspect but they were found in bed together
00:42:54
kind of nude in a way. And they said, eventually it comes out that they were very close, quote unquote.
00:43:06
One of the theories of why they pulled the women's eyes out was because Mrs. Lausanne-Long caught the sisters having sex.
00:43:16
Oh shit. Speculation officer. Speculation officer for sure. But they were saying because of how homosexuality
00:43:23
was viewed at the time that it would be such, it would, in and of itself would be taboo.
00:43:30
And then it's incestual. Maybe it wasn't her sister. I mean incestuous. Maybe it wasn't her sister.
00:43:35
You have to see these pictures. They're sisters. They look almost exactly alike.
00:43:39
They have the same awesome French eyebrows, but they look, they're so frightening.
00:43:44
They look like a picture out of, they look like the thing of like, you know, no one's
00:43:50
lived in this house for 50 years. What do you mean you met the mistresses of the house?
00:43:54
Yeah. And then it's like, she used to live here. And then you're like, oh, that's the woman that shows up at night in the hallway.
00:44:00
Oh my God. Oh my God. Oh my God. Okay. So, so, so, um, Christine finally admits after being held in prison for five months, Christine
00:44:07
finally admits it was her idea to murder the women. Leah was just doing her bidding.
00:44:13
Um, so the trial was held in September of 1933. Huge. This was like the trial of the century.
00:44:20
this is in Le Mans, which is a small village. I don't know how big. It's pronounced Wousta.
00:44:28
What? It's pronounced Wousta. Wousta. But like all the biggest newspapers in France go to it.
00:44:36
It's packed. It's crazy. The sisters come in. They both look very sheepish and they whisper.
00:44:45
You can barely hear them talking the whole time. And Christine admits to everything.
00:44:49
There's no, they don't put up any kind of argument. The prosecution psychologist attests
00:44:54
there's nothing wrong with the sisters. There's nothing in their background to suggest
00:44:57
there's anything abnormal about them psychologically. And they say Christine is of average intelligence
00:45:03
and Leah is of low intelligence. But the defense psychologist has a different opinion.
00:45:09
He brings up that there is almost no motive, yet the brutality is beyond extreme.
00:45:15
And he suggests there's a third person present at the murders, the combination of the personalities between Christine and Leah that they had, because they were so close and they were the only person the other person had, they had this kind of weird connection.
00:45:33
They call it a folly adieu, which is when you hear about, you know, that story of those other two weird twins that ran into the freeway.
00:45:42
Yeah. Yeah. And then there's those ones. And then there's another set of twins. They're black sisters.
00:45:49
Yes. Who also had a similar- Who went to a mental institution and was like, whoever dies first has to live a normal, the other has to live a normal life.
00:45:56
Exactly. So they call that a folly, a doom, which means that you're both, you're having a shared hallucination.
00:46:03
And they also associate that with couple killers that basically you're living in this weird fantasy together outside of the realm of normal thinking.
00:46:13
Wow. Oh, that's interesting. So they believe they also one of the that's a defense psychologist suggests that they were going through something called hystero epilepsy, which I didn't look up and it could directly impact my life.
00:46:31
but it's basically like they were in a state that that Christine was in a state and that
00:46:38
Leah was just so under her sway that she would she had no choice how do you have like is sustained
00:46:45
epilepsy a thing no no hystero epilepsy okay so that's just like that they went hysterical that
00:46:53
their brain like went great I'm not sure I should have looked it up to find out exactly what he meant
00:46:58
I want to guess. It's more fun. That's all we do. Yeah. But it's basically like they're in some kind of a hysterical state.
00:47:05
Okay. I dig it. I mean, but the weird thing is it's like clearly something special is happening in this situation
00:47:13
because it's not like they didn't jump at the women. Beat him up. Beat him up. Hit him in the head once.
00:47:21
It wasn't like that. This is sustained extreme insane violence. Yeah. this is like yeah dude crazy uh so basically the jury the judge and jury uh find them both guilty
00:47:37
christina's sentenced to death because she basically comes forward and says it was my idea
00:47:42
um she's ordered to be beheaded in the town square lee in the city of lamal leah is sentenced
00:47:49
to 20 years hard labor and 10 years exile which is kind of old-fashioned fun she's like i'm gonna
00:47:55
You gotta be around you fuckers anyways. Well, fine then go live on an island. which sounds great.
00:48:02
Christine's sentence has changed to a life sentence of hard labor. At some point, someone comes in and says,
00:48:09
there was something else going on here, and that these psychologists didn't, they basically oversimplified the situation.
00:48:17
Obviously, something else was happening. And can we at least get her sentence commuted to a life of hard labor
00:48:25
or whatever, 20 years of hard labor? so they do they go find christy at this point christine has been brought to a mental institution
00:48:32
she's not talking she's not eating um and she says that she deserves to die the way the jury found her
00:48:39
um to be guilty of that she deserves the charge um so she just stopped eating and she's basically
00:48:47
wasting away um when they give her the paperwork to sign to say that instead of being sentenced to
00:48:53
death and she's gets 20 years hard labor or whatever she won't sign it wow and she uh uh
00:49:00
just basically sits in silence staring into space they bring her sister to her she doesn't acknowledge
00:49:04
her even act like she knows who she is and she um eventually dies sorry i said that like lizzie
00:49:13
cooperman um dies uh but her sister leah adapts well to prison life and is released when she's 31
00:49:25
31 so she was she's an old maid basically and she died july 24th 2001 no yeah she just lived
00:49:35
she went back to wherever the mother lived and like started her life over and then just kind of
00:49:41
like lived there was a documentary i don't i don't have the name of it but if you find if you look up
00:49:46
all this stuff obviously is just a click away if i can find it you can find it but um there was a
00:49:53
documentary someone went and was like there is a pom-pom sister left and they're like we're gonna
00:49:59
go find her and they find her in like an old folks home right before she died in her 90s how was your
00:50:05
life. Yeah. In her undies? In her nineties. Oh, so it's kind of a, and also there's a movie called
00:50:15
Sister My Sister is one movie. And there's also a bunch of plays, uh, Jean-Paul Sartre and Jean
00:50:22
Genet and all these writers of the time wrote a ton about it because it became this thing about
00:50:28
like the working class and the exploitation of the workers and how unfair, you know, people with
00:50:34
money were to the working class and that it was kind of a natural reaction. Yeah. They said like,
00:50:41
dude, like this is what's going to happen if we keep fucking treating them like this. Yeah.
00:50:45
That is crazy and so violent and gruesome. It's so violent. And also so like they wanted to,
00:50:53
they smashed their faces and they left their bodies like exposed. Like it was so beyond.
00:51:00
And they didn't try to hide it. That to me is like, you know, when like someone tries to argue that they were mentally ill, but they like tried to hide the murder.
00:51:14
Yeah. It's like, no, you weren't because you knew it was wrong. And so you hid it.
00:51:18
And like, they didn't do that, which says to me something about them not being mentally competent.
00:51:24
They hid like children. Yeah. Like they waited though. Yeah, they didn't run out of the house, which is just, they were on the stairs.
00:51:31
Like they were right there. They should have and could have run out. Yeah. But instead they went to their room and locked the door and just like hung out.
00:51:41
Oh man, what happened to them in the orphanage? Exactly. Something fucked. Well, fuck dude.
00:51:48
What are their names again? Christine and Leah Papin. Fuck dude. Thank you. No, thank you.
00:51:55
Thank us all. okay we're back karen any updates there are no updates on this case i was actually just
00:52:04
looking it up because we were talking about how disturbing this case is how bizarre and the little
00:52:11
details in it and allison was like this actually would make an amazing horror movie like a 24
00:52:18
horror movie for today where it's like it absolutely would i know they've done the more like a
00:52:23
sociological kind of study, you know, filmic version. But it's like, this should be a straight
00:52:28
up horror movie. You want like supernatural. Well, because they say that when it is a folie
00:52:33
adieu, there's like a third personality that is between the two that's there. Got it. Which just I think you could take that theme and really run with it with those two
00:52:43
sisters. Yeah. You know what I mean? Getting abused by these, you know, you could make it seem like
00:52:48
insanely monstrous much worse than average you know what I mean like really set it up yeah and
00:52:55
then there's a question to ask of like is mental illness like almost a different person inside of
00:53:00
you or a different part of you you know if you're into parts therapy I mean well if you are your
00:53:06
brain and your brain is doing something different right in one area right I mean something I know
00:53:13
the logical part of you wouldn't want to do then. But also it's a thing of like so many parts of this story because it's like,
00:53:20
it isn't just revenge. They mutilated those people. So there's more. And we just,
00:53:27
will we ever know? I wish there was an update to this case. Cause would we ever know the real reason or the,
00:53:33
I would just love to be able to like track it in a real way. Well, you should write it.
00:53:37
I will. I will make up the truth if I can't have it. I wish you would have a comedy horror movie.
00:53:42
Is that a thing? It shouldn't be. I don't think this one. I think this one has to be real serious.
00:53:47
So that moment where they're like, we were expecting you. And the cop opens. All right.
00:53:52
Well, that's your new genre. So scary Poor man copyright You cannot make this movie People are like 18 people have made it already I know Okay now we going to get into Georgia story This one she covers the case of Sam Shepard
00:54:11
Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:54:15
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories
00:54:23
I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air,
00:54:31
so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:54:36
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:54:43
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
00:54:49
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything,
00:54:54
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move.
00:54:59
And he went out the front door, and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.
00:55:04
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:55:11
You know the famous author Roald Dahl. He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy?
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00:56:11
all right mine's fucked up but you probably have heard of it um but i but it's a good one
00:56:20
and i really wanted to do it so karen yes on the night of july 3rd 1954 dr sam shepherd oh girl
00:56:33
hey yes a neurosurgeon and his wife marilyn who was four months pregnant with their second kid
00:56:40
they lived on a lakefront home in Bay Village, Ohio, which is a suburb of Cleveland. Have you
00:56:48
been to Cleveland? I've never been to Cleveland. I don't think I have. We should do a show there.
00:56:53
So they're watching a movie together. Sam Shepard falls asleep on the day bed in the living room
00:56:59
and Marilyn tucks their seven-year-old son into bed and then she goes to sleep in their bedroom.
00:57:04
and purportedly in the early morning hours, Sam says he woke up on the daybed to the cries of his wife screaming.
00:57:16
He runs upstairs and he sees an intruder in the bedroom and he gets knocked unconscious.
00:57:23
Then he wakes up, he takes his wife's pulse and then he sees the intruder downstairs
00:57:30
and chases him out. and they head down to the beach and there's a tussle and Sam Shepard's knocked unconscious again, Jesus.
00:57:41
And he wakes up, he's like half in the lake, his shirt's gone, his watch is gone.
00:57:45
He freaks out, he runs home, finds his wife in their bedroom, bludgeoned to death.
00:57:51
And she's on the bed. She'd been hit 35 times, 27 in her head. She had a broken nose, a shattered skull.
00:58:00
There's gashes on her forehead and scalp. A fingernail gets torn off, which always creeps me out.
00:58:06
Yeah, it's horrifying. And two incisors are broken or ripped out, where she either bit her attacker or was, you know,
00:58:13
hit so hard that her teeth came out. There was evidence of a sexual assault only in that her pajama tap had been,
00:58:21
top had been pushed up around her neck, and one of her pajama legs had been taken off,
00:58:27
and she was posed with her legs spread open, but there was no sign of sex or rape.
00:58:33
And her body was angled in this crazy way at the end of the bed where there was basically like a banister
00:58:38
where it was like impossible to have raped her. So she was pulled down there to make it look like sexual assault, but it wasn't.
00:58:47
And the bedroom's covered in blood and there's blood throughout the house. So Sam Shepard, when he gets back
00:58:52
from being unconscious on the beach, he doesn't call the cops. He tested Marilyn's pulse.
00:58:57
And then at 540 a.m., he calls his neighbors, basically saying, I think they've killed Marilyn.
00:59:03
So he calls his neighbors. The neighbors come over. I think one of them was the mayor of the town.
00:59:08
And they were over earlier that night for dinner. They find Sam shirtless and his pants were wet with a bloodstain on the knee.
00:59:15
And he leaves them to go find Marilyn's body. And then they call the cops. You know what that makes me think of?
00:59:23
John Bonet. Exactly. Okay. So he's taken to the hospital. He's examined by his brother, who's also a doctor.
00:59:33
That shouldn't be allowed. Nope. And then a green duffel bag with some of the trinkets that are
00:59:40
stolen from their house is found close by the house outside in the woods. And like weird stuff,
00:59:46
you know, it looks like everyone knows what a staged robbery looks like. It's, you know,
00:59:51
drawers are pulled out but neatly nothing of value is taken even though things of value are are spread out that sort of thing and so the police find inconsistencies with his story and they also think it outlandish So he taken a trial on October 18th
01:00:07
It's my sister's birthday. 1954. And prosecutors find out that Shepard had a three-year-long
01:00:14
extramarital affair with a nurse at the hospital where he worked at. It was ongoing.
01:00:19
And they argued that the affair was his motive for killing his wife. So if she's pregnant, like he doesn't want this life anymore.
01:00:28
That's their argument. And there were a lot of inconsistencies, one of which was that the family dog,
01:00:34
and I think this is such a normal thing, was never heard barking and it always barked at intruders.
01:00:39
I feel like neighbors say that all the time. Also their seven-year-old son, Sam,
01:00:43
was asleep in the other room during the whole thing and never woke up. And I was like, well, if she's screaming
01:00:49
and he can hear her in the living room, And then the kid woke up unless he doesn't remember it or unless they were fighting all the time.
01:00:56
And so he never got out of bed for it. I mean, or unless he's a heavy sleeper, like I'm a heavy sleeper and you can scream and I won't hear it.
01:01:04
Yeah. Unless my dog starts barking. That's so sharp. Yeah. And create like jolting or whatever.
01:01:11
But I think like as children, I don't know. Yeah. They're hard sleepers. Yeah. Yeah.
01:01:15
Other issues brought up at the trial was the fact that there was no sand in Sam Shepard's hair, even though he claimed to be sprawled out on the beach.
01:01:25
There was no sign on the beach of a life or death struggle where he claimed to tackle Marilyn's killer.
01:01:33
he's missing his t-shirts um which the prosecutors speculated would have had some of his sam shepherds
01:01:41
should contain some blood uh from the alleged attack or struggle with the perpetrator
01:01:48
um also the blood blood evidence was fucked up uh so sam shepherd had a watch on and when the
01:01:56
intruder first hit him he still had the watch on and he said that he went and took his wife's pulse
01:02:01
but the watch was found in the green duffel bag. So after the scuffle at the beach,
01:02:07
the intruder supposedly took the watch. Why did he take it after the second struggle?
01:02:12
He had gone through Sam Shepard's wallet supposedly. So why didn't he take it after the first knockout
01:02:18
if he's there for, you know, valuables? Also, so he took his wife's pulse and touched her face, what he said had happened.
01:02:28
and he had no blood on his body at all. And he said he didn't clean himself. So he should have had a transfer of blood to his fingers.
01:02:39
He picked up the phone after and there's no blood on the phone, which is weird. So like, why is it so cleaned up?
01:02:50
Let's see. Someone said that they got sick of me saying da-da-da-da-da the other day.
01:02:54
Was it me? Are you? No. so it doesn't matter. Oh, good call. Okay. He says he didn't wash or clean up, but there was no like,
01:03:03
also, you know what? Let's listen to your fucking podcast and see what you say all the time and
01:03:08
don't say. You'd be amazed at the things that you say and don't say when you talk for an extended
01:03:12
period of time. Fair enough. And all I did is lose my fucking place. Also now I'm yelling at you.
01:03:19
You're yelling at them, but you're making eye contact with me. So I'm really mad at you.
01:03:23
why don't I turn it towards Steven you're really really mad at I'm triggered okay
01:03:31
so okay so there also should have been sand from the beach in his wristwatch if they had actually
01:03:40
fought at the beach where he took his fucking watch and there fucking wasn't sand in the
01:03:46
wristwatch yeah like if they were fighting on the beach he knocks him unconscious and then steals
01:03:50
his watch there should be traces of sand in the watch. Yes or no? Well, here's the thing though. Every time I think of this, it's
01:03:58
like, yes, except what are, is this a proven thing where it happens every time? No, you're right.
01:04:03
Except when you add all the other evidence in, it just kind of, you know, is like a
01:04:09
that looked filthy. What you were just poke. Oh, I thought it was two fingers. No, it was just one.
01:04:16
Um, but also, and this is just from, I think I saw like two minutes of this story because I keep
01:04:26
avoiding watching a thing on this story. Cause I want to, I want to watch the whole thing. And I
01:04:30
want to read the Errol Morris book who Errol Morris is totally on Sam Shepard's side, but
01:04:34
this is such a crazy, and I'm leaving out, I'm leaving out a lot of the evidence that people use
01:04:39
to say he didn't do it because I don't believe that. This is such a Jack the Ripper scenario
01:04:45
where there's so much evidence. But isn't there a thing where this was not a sandy beach?
01:04:49
This isn't the beach. This is a small pebble, rocky beach because this is Ohio. So it's like a lakefront beach.
01:04:56
It's not tiny sand. Well, what I love about this case and what I love about unsolved crimes
01:05:01
is that that's a great argument. And let's talk about that. And then I want to be like, okay, but what about this?
01:05:07
And like, yeah, there's so many. And it's because it's so old too. There's no way for us to definitively,
01:05:12
like we can't definitively say like, this is wrong and this is wrong and this is wrong. So he must not have done it.
01:05:18
Or if they saw it, once they smelled a rat, they didn't care what size the sand was because they
01:05:25
were like, here's what adds up and here's what we need to add up so we can get this guy.
01:05:30
Well, that's what a lot of people say is that they come to the conclusion and then they find
01:05:33
evidence to support their conclusion. And that's totally there. And there was also a guy working
01:05:38
as like a carpenter on, at their house. I didn't write about him. He was obsessed with Marilyn supposedly.
01:05:46
He turned, he ended up being a murderer and like was in taking advantage of women
01:05:51
and was a rapist. And like, there's all this shit that people are like, well it was him clearly But I feel like there so much evidence that doesn okay I seriously it like 1000 paths Yeah Also I never knew he was having an affair with a nurse
01:06:06
I didn't know she was pregnant. So the person he was having the affair with was pregnant?
01:06:10
No, his wife was pregnant. I mean, who knows, but it's just such a, like, that is such an obvious motive. Yes. I never knew there was another woman. That's insane.
01:06:21
That's more of a, that makes more sense to me than a guy who they are familiar with breaking in when he knows that Sam is home. That doesn't make any fucking sense. If the person's, well, I'm going to get to that, but if the person's motive was robbery or rape, they wouldn't, they would know that Sam was home and they wouldn't have done it then.
01:06:40
Well, and also if his motive was rape, then wouldn't he have gotten, wouldn't he have gotten away with a rape? Because if he's going to do all this other stuff and, and, and brutally murder her.
01:06:52
Yeah. I think the thing about that to me, which was. I'm not even sure what my point was there.
01:06:56
I get it. But what was most telling to me is that around her ankles was blood like drag marks that showed that the person
01:07:05
dragged her to the end of the bed to spread her legs apart. And there was no way he could have raped her
01:07:10
because what's it called? The banister, the bed frame, like bar. Headboard. Foot board.
01:07:16
Foot board, bar, banister was there. Like he couldn't have gotten on top of her.
01:07:20
Yes. And there were drag marks showing that he purposely put her in that position.
01:07:23
and so like why would he not have sexually assaulted her that was why would he break in
01:07:28
to be to rob and then put her in that position without the intent of sexually assaulting her
01:07:34
or why because he was a she because it was the other woman that broke in no and and went berserker
01:07:41
and went crazy and was like filled with rage and he had tried to break up with the other woman he
01:07:46
was like my wife is pregnant I can't do this with you anymore even though I promised you the moon
01:07:51
in the stars were not doing this. And she went home one night and was just like, guess what?
01:07:56
It's fatal attraction time. I would agree with that if the injuries weren't as brutal as they
01:08:02
were. And she, who seemed like a badass, couldn't fight back enough to have enough. I don't...
01:08:09
The woman who was pregnant? Yeah. She wasn't a... Yeah. The brutality of the murder was overkill.
01:08:18
and I don't, it didn't seem like something that, you know, someone her equal would have been able to do.
01:08:23
Oh, like, cause they, they would have had to really overpower her. Although overpower.
01:08:28
Now exhibit a, the picture of the, the family I was just talking about when the, the past sisters who fucking decimated these two women.
01:08:38
I mean, if we're going to get sued, let's get fucking sued. Maybe it was a seven-year-old son.
01:08:45
Like, let's get sued. My favorite murder, trying to get sued since 2017. Trying to get sued since jump.
01:08:53
We're in a new apartment and we're trying to get sued. Jesus Christ. It's the seven-year-old son.
01:09:00
He's not a heavy sleeper. He went down to the beach. He's a heavy hitter. He took all the sand out of the father's watch.
01:09:07
Oh, no. Okay, this is the episode where people just hate us. Sorry. All right. You should be.
01:09:13
I am. Genuinely sorry. No, you shouldn't be ever. not on this podcast. This podcast is not a place for sorries.
01:09:23
Except for sorry. Except for the best part of sorry, which is not sorry. Okay. Right.
01:09:32
Okay. Would have been, I'm going to fucking do it constantly now, you motherfucker.
01:09:38
Okay. There's no cut, cut to the tweet and it's from George's mother. I didn't even know
01:09:45
you knew how to treat, mom. Tweet. mom you tweeted the criticism did you see a bunch of people looked at my dad's twitter because he
01:09:53
like tweeted something at me and i retweeted it and it's all just the whole every single tweet is
01:09:58
a tweet at me like being like go georgia like that sounds fun he does not tweet anything unless
01:10:04
it's like supportive at me and people lost their minds which is sweet that's cute okay so he had
01:10:10
no blood on him despite despite the fact that they supposedly you know got into altercations twice
01:10:15
and there should have been blood on his hands and fingers if they had actually fought.
01:10:22
And wristwatch in the green bag, no sand, blood stains. Okay, so there were blood spatters on the watch, but not stains.
01:10:32
Oh. Yeah. Okay, so there's this article on Crime Library by Greg O. McCrary, who was a former FBI profile
01:10:45
who's like the dude who like knows some shit, who like didn't come to a conclusion
01:10:49
until he read everything. He wasn't biased. So he says that also importance in analyzing this crime
01:10:57
and crime scene is to consider the amount of time it took for the offender to stage the scene.
01:11:01
And I think this stuff is really interesting in like a matter of reading any crime in general,
01:11:07
like any kind of these crimes. He says crime scenes are high risk environments and none more so than a homicide scene.
01:11:13
Offenders typically spend no more time than necessary at a crime scene for fear of being interrupted or caught.
01:11:19
Consequently, there's a high degree of correlation between the amount of time an offender spends
01:11:23
at a crime scene and the offender's familiarity and comfortability with that scene.
01:11:29
The more time an offender spends at a crime scene, the higher the probability that the offender
01:11:33
is comfortable and familiar with that scene. Offenders who spend a great deal of time
01:11:38
at the crime scene often have a legitimate reason for being at the scene and therefore are not worried
01:11:42
about being interrupted or found at the scene. Your face is pissed. No, no, no. I just, now I'm back to that, the handyman.
01:11:52
Oh, but he looks through a basic window and sees Sam Shepard sleeping on a couch.
01:12:00
in the house. Why risk that? Well, because then it's even more of a victory. It makes me think of like the East Area Rapist or whatever,
01:12:08
where it's like part of his attack was knowing that the husband was going to be humiliated and in total psychic, emotional pain
01:12:16
over what was going on. And maybe that was part of the risk and part of the high for him.
01:12:21
Okay. Especially because he had already been a rapist, which is fucking crazy. I don't know if he already was yet because I didn't look it up.
01:12:29
Okay. because I am sold on this guy being on Sam Shepard being the murderer, but I,
01:12:36
a lot of people are, can be unsold very quickly. Okay. Um, he says the offender will often, uh,
01:12:43
manipulate the victim's discovery. Oh, here's another, okay. This is the JonBenet thing.
01:12:48
The offender will often manipulate the victim's discovery by a neighbor or family member. Um,
01:12:54
So yeah, JonBenet calling, or the Ramseys calling their friend to come over and find the body as they did with their friend.
01:13:01
What was his name? Scout? The next door neighbor. Yeah. Yeah. Before the police, right?
01:13:06
Yeah. Yeah. So finding, letting someone else find the body to like almost be a witness as well
01:13:15
is a fucking thing that they do. Yeah. All right. So after deliberating for four days,
01:13:20
the jury finds Shepard guilty of second degree murder. He's sentenced to life in prison.
01:13:26
Then on July 30th in 1961, good old F. Lee Bailey. Oh yeah, that guy. Who was he played by in O.J.
01:13:36
Then the Simpsons? Nathan Lane. Yes. Yeah, so good. Amazing. So he takes over, which is like,
01:13:42
oh, everyone's fucked. He's chief counsel. So Bailey petitions for a writ of habeas corpus.
01:13:51
And I wrote something we should ask Guy Brenham about. Isn't that produce the body?
01:13:56
No, I don't know. I was wrong recently, so I'm not going to. It is. Habeas corpus.
01:14:04
I don't know. Stephen. Stephen. It is. We talked about it on that episode. Good.
01:14:10
Produce the body. Okay. By the United States District Court. We'll see. It could be a version of that.
01:14:15
I am wrong about it. You're probably right. Who called the trial a mockery of justice and that shepherds,
01:14:22
it shredded the 14th amendments of right to due process which is that kind of fair the fucking
01:14:27
media was like all over the place um it was a carnival atmosphere the judge refused
01:14:34
fucking steven's pointing at karen and shaking his head correct he and the old winky wink
01:14:39
winky wonk and then yep you know what i'm saying the old two fingers underneath uh the old uh so dr shocker said that the carnival atmosphere no no don't look that up
01:14:52
uh he didn't he refused to sequester the jury and told and did not order them to ignore and
01:15:01
disregard media reports of the case and this was fucking next like this is this is basically the
01:15:06
simpsons of the 60s and 50s like this was a huge trial because it's like upstanding doctor in this
01:15:12
nice fucking area whose parents were also like well to do and well known. Yeah. And his wife gets brutally murdered.
01:15:19
Sorry. Did you say this was 68? In 61 is when F. Lee Bailey took over the case. Oh, so this is late 50s, early 60s?
01:15:27
54 is when the crime happened. Holy shit. I thought it was, for some reason, I thought it was like, I thought it was Manson.
01:15:35
Yeah. Yeah. It somehow seems that way. Yeah. It does. but I think it's when they were it was still the like post-war like gee golly we're gonna fucking
01:15:47
have a normal family and something as you know in the 70s they were you kind of this happened a lot
01:15:52
but not here okay so he uh okay so Shepard served a 10 year 10 years of his sentence
01:16:05
and he gets released because F. Lee Bailey gets him out. And when he gets released,
01:16:12
he marries a woman named Adrienne Teben Jonas. She's a German woman. They had been corresponding during his imprisonment.
01:16:22
You know, she was like, I saw this guy in the newspaper and he's hot. This is just like out of nowhere.
01:16:27
It doesn't matter, but I thought it was so interesting. So her half sister is the wife of Joseph Goebbels.
01:16:35
the Nazi propaganda. No. Yep. Her half sister. Married like the, like number four Nazi.
01:16:43
Yep. Was married to him. What the fuck? I mean, I think he was killed in Nuremberg by then,
01:16:50
but. Fuck. Fuck. You know, like you're not like a chill person. If your sister. Nope.
01:16:56
Gets married to that half sister, whatever. Let's, let's just, let's just guess that you're not like super open minded.
01:17:02
Right. You can't, There's no way she was like a conscientious objector during the fucking war.
01:17:09
There is a percentage, but it is a 7% chance. Not when their sister marries Joseph Goebbels.
01:17:16
Goebbels. Goebbels. That's heavy duty and not a good association. No, that has nothing to do with the case.
01:17:25
I just found it very interesting All right So this guy who the former FBI profile Greg McCrary he was involved as an expert witness for the third trial which was a civil suit brought on
01:17:37
by Sam Shepard Jr. in 1999, saying that his father had been wrongfully imprisoned. Like he was suing
01:17:44
them to be like... His dad was still in prison? No. Oh, okay. He was just trying to clear his dad's
01:17:49
name. His dad died in 1970. I was going to end with that. But in 99, the son who like clearly
01:17:57
had some fucking Stockholm syndrome. Am I wrong? Well, I mean, I mean, we're getting sued by him
01:18:01
anyways. Let's fucking, let's just really go for it. Well, seriously, if that happened and your
01:18:07
father was like, believe me, I didn't do it as the child. It's like those girls in the staircase.
01:18:13
Yeah. As the child of that person, you're like, he absolutely didn't do it. I need to believe him.
01:18:18
This is my last living parent. Something so horrifying happened to my mom. It can't be the worst thing,
01:18:25
which is what everyone is saying it is. It can't be that. Especially when, you know, since the 60s,
01:18:31
you've been insisting it wasn't. And you can't be like, I was wrong. Dad admitted it to me.
01:18:35
And all of like popular culture is insisting that he was. Yeah. I mean, there's just as much evidence that he did it
01:18:43
than as there is that he didn't do it. Like this is a definitely one of those, This is like a Jean Benet opinion case.
01:18:49
There's no answer. So he loses that case. And so Greg McCrary says, when you look at the case closely
01:18:58
and distill it to its essence, you can see that it's nothing more than a staged domestic homicide.
01:19:04
And as for the murder weapon- Sorry, that's that expert guy? Yeah. Okay. He examined all the evidence
01:19:11
and it's a really interesting crime library article about it. As for the murder weapon,
01:19:17
Um, it's just that one small sentence note at the end of a police report saying that a small lampshade was found on a bookcase in a room on the second floor, that no lamp was found in the murder room, but Sam's notebook lay on the nightstand ready for late night calls.
01:19:32
So how would he have taken notes without any light? And also a local lamp fixer dude said that days before he had fixed and returned a lamp to their residence.
01:19:43
And I'm guessing it wasn't found, but there's not a lot of information on that. But this dude said that.
01:19:48
All right. So here's the other weird fucking not having anything to do with this.
01:19:52
But so Shepard's third wife, Colleen Strickland Shepard, is the daughter of a professional wrestler.
01:20:00
Oh. Bring it full circle in my relationship with Vince of the We Watch Wrestling Podcast.
01:20:05
So George Strickland introduced Shepard to professional wrestling and trained him to be a wrestler.
01:20:11
He made his debut in August 1969 at the age of 45 as, quote, killer Sam Shepard.
01:20:17
What? Yeah. I'm sorry. Yeah. What? Yeah. After he's out of jail. Uh-huh. And he drew a huge crowd.
01:20:28
I'm looking for Vince's, I said, hey, do you know anything about this dude? And he was like,
01:20:33
here's this. Like, he just didn't care. Was he just broke and needed money? Yes. There's a really great episode of the Memory Palace, which is one of my favorite podcasts that
01:20:44
has like this just quick, beautiful, the way he does, I think it's episode 86 about what his life
01:20:51
might've been like at that point, which was he was broke. He was trying to have a private practice.
01:20:55
No one wants to go to him. Oh, that's right. He married this woman whose dad was a professional wrestler and he drew huge crowds.
01:21:02
Oh my God. I know. So, and his, like, I think his dad committed suicide. His mom died, like all this crazy shit.
01:21:12
So he, he was a wrestler for a short time. He wrestled over 40 matches. And Vince says, I believe he came up with the mandible claw, which was eventually made
01:21:23
popular by mankind, Mick Foley. So my favorite wrestlers. I love mankind. Do you? He's such a
01:21:30
sweet angel. I saw that documentary about him knowing nothing about wrestling at all. And I
01:21:35
was like, every time after that, I would just be like, what about mankind? Oh my God. I love him.
01:21:39
Mick Foley, angel baby. Love him. He's so sweet. So he has this crazy fucked up and in the,
01:21:46
in the memory palace, he's like, everyone who's watching him fight wonders if he's thinking about
01:21:51
the night he fought his wife. Like, it's crazy. Oh, God. I know. I didn't even think about that.
01:21:56
That's why he got a big fucking crowd. Oh, that's so dark. So he wrestled over 40 matches before his death
01:22:03
in April 1970 from liver failure. And we don't fucking know. Georgia, that was so awesome.
01:22:12
Was it? Oh, my God. Thank you. There were so many things. Thank you. Now we have to read that book by Errol Morris.
01:22:21
because Errol Morris is convinced that he didn't do it, that the whole thing was like a setup
01:22:27
and that the guy that wrote Fatal Vision, whose name I can't remember, basically exploited every tiny thing
01:22:36
so that he could make money because he knew, and see, I don't know the timeline,
01:22:42
but basically that he was copying the guy that wrote Helter Skelter and he wanted that Helter Skelter money
01:22:50
And so he basically went in and made it seem like he was guilty, I guess, or- That the fucking owl versus staircase argument You know what I mean It just this thing of like you can be adamant about something and then there are these little pieces of evidence
01:23:06
that you just can't explain away. So I don't, and same with Jean Benet, like I love that,
01:23:12
I prefer the theory that it was in the family in the same way I prefer that Sam Shepard did it,
01:23:19
but I would love to hear why he didn't. And I'd love to hear the evidence that they didn't.
01:23:23
But then I will always come back to you with like, okay, but how do you explain that? You know, it's just, that's why I love cold cases. It's so much
01:23:30
more, there's no period on it. Yeah, that's true. Well, also just the idea, like, it seems like he
01:23:37
has this perfect storm of people in his life where everybody could be guilty. Like what I would love
01:23:43
to now know is the nurse that he was having the affair with, I would just love, oh yes, she did
01:23:48
have a short stint, you know, after coming at somebody with a knife. She did kill her second
01:23:55
and third husband. Yeah. Just something like that where you're just like, now it's her. Now it's
01:23:59
her. Now it could be him. I never even thought of her. That's fun. I mean, it's not fucking fun.
01:24:03
It makes me think of that Harrison Ford movie. Spoiler, spoiler, spoiler alert. Well, The Fugitive, that was a TV show, right? That was made based on Sam Shepard.
01:24:15
And it was a Harrison Ford movie. It's one of the best movies of all time. You've never seen The Fugitive? No. You better fucking see it when I leave tonight.
01:24:23
Okay. They say that that clouded so many people's images because they don't remember what's from the fugitive and what's not.
01:24:30
Yeah, that's right. Because it's so similar where it's a guy, that's a guy running because his wife is murdered and he is so, looks so guilty that he knows he can only run. And he's a doctor.
01:24:42
Well, yeah, it's based on him. So the other thing about it is that that evening, it was July 3rd, they had their neighbors over who ended up finding, you know, he called to come over and look at the body.
01:24:52
They had them over for dinner that night and they said that they were loving and sweet and wonderful.
01:24:58
And then Sam Shepard falls asleep on, like they see him fall asleep on the couch and it's like, okay, is that legitimate?
01:25:03
You can argue that they were in love still, or you could argue that they were, he was trying to get evidence that they were happy and normal and he was sleeping.
01:25:10
and what makes me think it's that is that he was also fucking another woman. Yeah.
01:25:16
So they're not happy and loving and everything's fine and he falls asleep on the couch.
01:25:20
He's fucking someone else at work and he needs them to see, have his fucking alibi.
01:25:27
Yeah. And maybe the wife is happy and loving because she doesn't know about the other woman.
01:25:32
She doesn't know. So she's having a totally different relationship and a different experience.
01:25:37
Yeah. And he's this crazy mastermind. And I remember also seeing something in the, whatever that like very short amount that I saw in the, some documentary about it and then turned off.
01:25:52
But one of the things was when he, they brought him into the hospital, like after, you know, he was, he was brought in and his brother examined him and all that kind of stuff that he was completely stone faced, emotionless, no matter who talked to him, he was not crying.
01:26:08
he wasn't shaking it was as if he was just kind of like there well he could have been in shock
01:26:14
now i'm arguing for him like he could have just been in shock he could have been in shock well
01:26:18
the other thing is too that um they named all his injuries and shit but they were all on the left
01:26:22
side of his body which could either mean that the fucking killer was left-handed or he just took his
01:26:28
right hand and beat the shit out of himself with his right hand what are the odds that you'd only
01:26:33
have bruises on one side. Yeah. Unless. Unless his arm, fucking he bashes in his arm and he can only hit with his.
01:26:42
I mean, it's so fun. It's not fun. It's horrible. Marilyn fucking bless her soul.
01:26:47
Well, I mean, it's the fact is horrifying, the theorizing and the possibility because
01:26:53
these are people's real lives. Like, aside from the victims, there's the possibility of another victim, which is this
01:27:01
doctor who people are, you can see it either way. Like the victim of circumstance, which is the most
01:27:09
romantic. I mean, there was a TV show on for what, 10 years or however long that show was on.
01:27:15
And that movie, I still can't believe you haven't seen it. It's truly one of the best movies.
01:27:20
I'm going to watch it as soon as, it's so great. The, um, yeah, I mean, there has to be a couple of these people who are found guilty or who we all
01:27:30
think are guilty that we're fucking not and well and there's still a hundred pieces of evidence
01:27:36
that i could argue that makes them look guilty yeah and those that sucks and we just never know
01:27:40
who those people are unless dna comes along and exonerates them some kind of weird like
01:27:45
we grab the the air in the room and that somehow in the future proves this or that
01:27:51
some future air my air dna theory dude i love it but it's it's exactly like the beginning of
01:27:58
Shawshank Redemption where it's like, yes, he was drunk. Yes. He was angry at his wife. Yes.
01:28:02
She was having an affair. He still didn't kill her, but he's going to, he goes to jail for it.
01:28:07
And he couldn't look guiltier and there's nothing he can do. And it's just that kind of like,
01:28:12
it, it does happen. I've thought about that. Like with Vince of like, I almost, I don't know what happened. I also dropped something on my head the other day. And I was
01:28:19
like, Vince is sitting here with me. Like, I wonder who wouldn't believe him that he said
01:28:26
that I fucking drop something on my stupid head Yeah on your own head On my own stupid head Right And like Except for he can because you talked so much about thinking he might kill you You actually made your own like insurance
01:28:40
That he will be arrested and prosecuted. I will be the first one to ring the doorbell.
01:28:44
I'll be like, dude, I'm so sorry, but I simply must. You're under arrest. You're under citizen's arrest.
01:28:50
Citizen's arrest. You're under podcast arrest. Vince has, I just want to clarify,
01:28:53
Vince has never done anything to me or at me or near me. Vince is the guy who, this is basic.
01:29:02
This is the basic. Anytime or anywhere. You guys came to my wrap party the other night.
01:29:06
You were my guests at my wrap party. And Vince is like, as you and I are hot gossing,
01:29:11
Vince is like, what can I get you? I know. We just walked in. I mean, you guys had just walked in.
01:29:16
Do you need another diet cook? Like he's just. He's the greatest. So it would be such a turn if he killed you.
01:29:22
It would be funny. It's the perfect, he's building the perfect. I mean, I would be surprised.
01:29:27
I would be like, whoa. In that last moment, you're like, you know what? I got to give this up to you.
01:29:32
Go ahead. And he's like, she didn't fight. You earned this. She laughed because she's a monster.
01:29:38
Oh my God, this is such a horrible conversation. This is one of the greatest. Okay, we are back.
01:29:48
Georgia, any updates on this case? Oh my gosh, what a famous case. No updates. Still haven't seen The Fugitive.
01:29:54
I will remedy that this weekend. I swear. I swear. I mean, truly, I would put The Fugitive up there with Pride and Prejudice in terms of
01:30:02
a watchability, repeat watchability movie. Yes. Okay. It's just taught. It is. It snaps along.
01:30:09
Okay, I'm in. I'm in. Love a Harrison Ford. And you love Harrison Ford. Like, who doesn't?
01:30:14
Get in there with him. Yeah, I'll watch it. Okay, I promise I'll watch it this weekend, which doesn't matter for today's episode,
01:30:19
but. No, it does. This is actually a private conversation we should be having off mic.
01:30:22
That's right. But at least I got my promise out of Georgia. Okay. So now we're going to do the retitle.
01:30:28
This episode, which was a great episode, by the way. We both compliment each other.
01:30:32
We both are very impressed by the other person's storytelling ability in this. Finally, at episode 55, we're both figuring it out.
01:30:40
It only took us about a year or so. And we start to hit our stride. So this episode originally was titled, Let's Hear Your Podcast, The Argument Starter.
01:30:50
Right. So maybe let's do it a little nicer. If we were naming it today, maybe we would call it the Furniture Hour.
01:30:57
That's nice. Because of my new IKEA furniture. That's right. We really spent some time talking about it.
01:31:02
We could also title it Real Up in Arms About Worcester. That was the beginning, I think, about corrections corners, about pronouncing cities.
01:31:11
Like, spell it like you say it. That was the beginning, the dawning of that. Where also it's like, that's one of those cities that's nothing like it,
01:31:19
and people are real aggressive about when you get it wrong. They're tough there.
01:31:23
I don't want those are people I don't want to piss off, too. So, like, can you just change the spelling or the.
01:31:27
I don't want to piss you off at the same time. I don't know you. I don't know you.
01:31:30
Sorry. I don't know you. Just like you would you would mispronounce Sebastopol if you came around where I live.
01:31:36
That's true. That's good luck with that. My goodness. And then we could also call it, of course, da da da da da.
01:31:42
Yes. Which is I still use that to this day. Yeah. You're trying to read and talk and podcast all at the same time.
01:31:48
Sometimes you need a little like hold music. Yeah. Da-da-da-da. Da-da-da-da. Yeah.
01:31:54
That's what I do. Well, thank you guys for listening. Yeah, this was a great one.
01:31:59
We hope you liked it too. Yeah. And we'll let Elvis say goodbye. Yeah. Good boy.
01:32:04
Yeah. Ladies and gentlemen. Oy vey. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Elvis.
01:32:15
You want a cookie? Oh, yeah. You do? He does. My cookie? Bye! Listen to The Sixth Bureau on the iHeartRadio app,
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Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app,
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search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now. 10-10 shots, 5, City Hall
01:33:31
building. How could this have happened in City Hall? Somebody tell me that. A shocking public murder.
01:33:36
This is one of the most dramatic events that really ever happened in New York City
01:33:40
politics. I screamed, get down, get down, those are shots. A tragedy that's now forgotten.
01:33:49
And a mystery. that may or may not have been political, that may have been about sex.
01:33:54
Listen to Rorschach, Murder at City Hall, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
01:33:58
or wherever you get your podcasts.