00:00:00
This is exactly right. of AT&T, Verizon, and T-Mobile customers compared to 12 months on the Boost Mobile Unlimited Wireless plan
00:00:33
as of January, 2026. For full offer details, visit BoostMobile.com. You know the famous author Roald Dahl.
00:00:38
He thought up Willy Wonka and the BFG. But did you know he was a spy? Neither did I.
00:00:45
You can hear all about his wildlife story in the podcast, The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:00:50
All episodes are out now. Was this before he wrote his stories? It must have been.
00:00:54
What? Okay, I don't think that's true. I'm telling you, the guy was a spy. Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl.
00:01:02
Now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive.
00:01:10
But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:01:16
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy,
00:01:23
tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now.
00:01:32
Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS. I'm Bailey Taylor, and this is It Girl.
00:01:39
This podcast is all about going deeper with the women shaping culture right now.
00:01:43
Yes, we will talk about the style and the success, but we are also talking about the pressure, the expectations, and the real work behind it all.
00:01:50
As a woman in the industry, you're always underestimated. So you have to work extra hard in a way that doesn't compromise who you are and your integrity.
00:01:59
You know, I like to say I was kind of like a silent ninja. Listen to It Girl with Bailey Taylor on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:02:20
Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen in Georgia. Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary and updates and insights.
00:02:34
Today, we're recapping episode 56, which we named Service Poodle. Of course we did. Of course we did. We had to.
00:02:42
So this episode came out on February 15th. Happy Valentine's Day 2017. Let's get into the intro of episode 56.
00:02:50
hi hey what's going on oh nothing how are you oh pretty good um hey this is my favorite murder that's karen that's right that's georgia that's
00:03:12
right and this is a podcast where we talk to you about murders that have happened what's going on
00:03:18
Well, the thing that people keep on tweeting to us, and when I say keep on, and certainly I want to communicate with people, and I certainly want to know things when it's breaking news.
00:03:31
Do I want to know things 300 times from breaking news? Probably not. Vincent Lee, the man from the bus that killed that boy that was sitting next to him because he thought he was a demon.
00:03:45
in our cannibal episode and it was the most horrifying story cannibal or not and uh it seemed
00:03:53
to be that the horrifying details got lost in the fact that i don't know canadian geography very well
00:03:59
that's really what people got up in arms about that's what people are angry about listen i tried
00:04:03
to correct my saying of wooster and apparently i was wrong again listen i tried i mean look it's i
00:04:10
feel like we might be making a mistake even even acknowledging anything at this point but
00:04:14
that man, Vincent Lee, has now been entirely released. How the fuck? It's how Canada does it.
00:04:22
How the fuck? They've decided that he is rehabilitated and that he is going to go free.
00:04:31
It's the way their system is set up. You know what's interesting is that instead of having a like,
00:04:38
like there's a parole board of people who are, I don't know if they're voted or whatever the fuck,
00:04:43
But there's a parole board that decides if people stay or go. Why isn't that also a jury of our peers who are like, hell no, I don't want that guy living next door to me.
00:04:53
Well, because I think that's the given. I think that if you asked anybody, do you want a criminal out in society, the answer is no, lock them up forever.
00:05:01
But I think the idea is if you are trying to aim for rehabilitation, especially with this guy who was a complete schizophrenic who just didn't take his meds.
00:05:12
Yeah. He did not know where he was. He honestly believed a demon was sitting next to him.
00:05:17
None of that, of course, is an excuse or makes anything okay, especially for that family.
00:05:22
But that's really what was going on with him. Now that he's on meds, that's not the person that he is.
00:05:28
Yeah, but there's no assurance that he's going to keep taking his meds. Right. There's also no assurance that you won't kill me right now.
00:05:35
I think that the overall discussion of what is jail for and what is rehabilitation for real, because I think that anybody who feels unsafe wants the answer to be lock them up forever. We never see them again.
00:05:54
Right. It you know I mean we have gotten so many emails and everybody response is like what the fuck what the fuck what the fuck But there are tons of articles about the way Canadian like the Canadian justice system works
00:06:09
And that that is the goal is not lock them up and you never see them again. And because of that, there's a lot of people that are super pissed off about it.
00:06:18
Yeah. I mean, that's not our goal here either, but I was out on Saturday night with Vince.
00:06:26
We got an Uber home by a retired cop who was a policeman in Compton for years. It was so fucking cool
00:06:35
and had his service poodle with him, who was the sweetest fucking dog. It was just like sat on a lap the whole time.
00:06:43
So he drops us off a Del Taco. Oh. Which is like, I mean, we didn't even ask. We were like,
00:06:49
And he was like, I can't go further than this. We're like, all right. Fine. And so Vince and I get to El Taco and we're heading home and we're walking across the street.
00:06:59
And someone pulls over and rolls their window down. And I was like, oh, fuck. And he yelled.
00:07:06
And it's just some random dude by himself. You know, like at midnight and he yells, stay sexy.
00:07:13
That's crazy. I know. I mean, I had a toxic masculinity shirt on. So I don't know if he knew it was me.
00:07:18
There you go. where he's like, this is my favorite murder girl. He's just shouting you out.
00:07:22
He's just fucking shouting at me. That's awesome. And I screamed, again, screamed at him.
00:07:27
Now that's hilarious to me because I think you and I talked about that where you were like,
00:07:31
is it nerdy to wear your own shirt? Right. And you clearly made that decision. I made the decision on that shirt
00:07:37
because it's a protest message and it says my favorite murder with very small on it.
00:07:48
And it looked really good on me. I love that shirt. Which one did you get? Well, all right.
00:07:53
Actually, it's funny to ask that. This is not a setup. I got just the regular unisex T-shirt size small.
00:07:59
And the next day I emailed our fucking awesome girl at the printful, Kirsten, and was like,
00:08:05
can we get this in women's shirts as well? Because that didn't fit me very well.
00:08:09
You know how like you want certain shirts to fit a well. So we now have ladies shirts instead of just unisex.
00:08:14
Oh, oh, cool. Yeah. Cool. I like it. I like that you're personally walking the message around.
00:08:19
Yeah. That's fun. I felt pretty cool. Okay, we are back. Wow. Do you have an update, Karen, on Vincent Lee?
00:08:29
There are updates. He's now living under a different name. He's been free since 2017 without further incident.
00:08:36
He was found not criminally responsible for murdering Tim McClain on that Greyhound bus.
00:08:41
The mother of Tim McLean, Carol Dedele, has been vocal about being unhappy with Lee's release.
00:08:50
She says, that's wrong and should never be. In a statement to APTN News, she says, Vince Lee committed one of the most horrific murders in Canadian history and has faded back into society.
00:09:03
My son is still dead. End quote. Which is so sad and true. I mean, like, it is separate from the context.
00:09:12
Just when it stands alone, it is just one of the most horrible things you could hear about.
00:09:16
Yeah. The whole story is horrifying. I can't imagine living through that. Yeah. I had totally forgotten about that Uber ride I took with two great things.
00:09:26
A service poodle and an ex-cop. Right? Like, wow. Right. I just thunk it. And then I got yelled at.
00:09:32
I love it. Or like yelled to. Yelled around? Yelled for. Yelled four. That's it.
00:09:39
A positive. That's a positive yell. It's the positive. I mean, there's something about going over these old episodes,
00:09:46
and it is almost like a diary we didn't keep. And like thinking about it, because at first it was just like,
00:09:51
oh God, we fucked so many things up, and we did things wrong, and these things we said that we wish we never said, blah, blah, blah.
00:09:57
But then it's like, but then you have these little nuggets of life, of what we were just kind of doing in the day-to-day that,
00:10:04
yeah, you probably never would have remembered us. specific Uber ride, but now you do. And that's so funny and true because like, yeah, I never write
00:10:12
a diary. I always wish I had, but I should have started 10 years ago. But this is kind of that.
00:10:16
And it's exciting because we, you and I know now that our lives are about to change so drastically.
00:10:24
So insanely. So insanely. They already have at this point, episode 56, changed big time, but even more so. Like we don't know what's coming.
00:10:34
I think that might be a part of it too, looking back. There's a piece of it where we don't know.
00:10:39
Totally. I don't know. It's so wild. It is. It is. It only got bigger from here. I feel like the peak was 2018 through 2020
00:10:52
when life was just bananas. This can't be really happening. Let's ride this. Wow.
00:10:59
Let's do three cities a weekend on tour and write a book. and do the podcast. And just so many little things.
00:11:08
So many things. Yeah. Crazy. All right. Okay, now let's get into Georgia's story
00:11:13
about Darlie Rudier. Your husband is not who you think he is. Your body is not what you thought it was.
00:11:24
Your identity is formed by a secret history. I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories
00:11:31
I'll be exploring on the 14th season of Family Secrets. And just then, we felt the plane turn in the air,
00:11:39
so much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
00:11:44
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
00:11:51
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves My daughter she pretending she doesn know but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn eating anything And me pretending like everything was fine
00:12:05
He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move. And he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off.
00:12:10
And that was the last time I saw him. Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app,
00:12:16
Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy is essential and it's also elusive.
00:12:23
But now, there's a new and exciting way to start your journey toward a more joyful existence.
00:12:28
Joy 101. It's a new podcast hosted by me, Hoda Kotb. If you're craving inspiration to maximize your joy, tune into these candid, uplifting, and moving on-air chats.
00:12:40
Open your free iHeartRadio app, search Joy 101, and listen now. Joy 101 with Hoda Kotb is presented by CVS.
00:12:49
Every story has a point where it's balanced on a knife's edge. That's where we begin.
00:12:55
For some, it's a confrontation no parent ever expects. They finally admit, we're here to take your children.
00:13:02
The department has taken custody and we're here to take your kids. It was just shock and horror and desperation.
00:13:09
For others, it's surviving the unthinkable. As they're having this gun battle, thousands of feet up in the air,
00:13:16
many of the bullets start to puncture the aircraft. I thought we were going to die then.
00:13:21
The Knife is a podcast about real people whose lives were upended in an instant.
00:13:27
We talk to the people who lived it, unpacking what happened, how they got through it, and what came next.
00:13:33
And on our off-record episodes, we go even deeper into the reporting and answer the questions you can't stop thinking about.
00:13:40
New episodes drop every Thursday on the Exactly Right Network and the iHeart Podcast Network.
00:13:44
Listen to The Knife on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
00:13:49
When you feel uncomfortable, what do you put on? Biggie. You put on Biggie when you feel uncomfortable?
00:13:55
Because I want to get confident. This is DJ Hester Prynne's Music is Therapy, a weekly podcast from me, a DJ and licensed therapist.
00:14:02
It's Mental Health Month. Let's figure out what actually works. I didn't care about my life circumstance when I listened to that stuff. It didn't matter to me.
00:14:09
This isn't just a podcast. It's unconventional therapy for you every day. Open your free iHeartRadio app, search DJ Hester Prince Music is Therapy, and start listening now.
00:14:20
Okay. So on June 6, 1996, at 2.31 a.m., 911 dispatchers in Rowlett, Texas, which is a suburb east of Dallas,
00:14:34
receives a call from Darlie Roti Air. and how she's panicked. And she tells the operator that her home had been broken into
00:14:43
and that a stranger had attacked herself and her two sons, Devin and Damon, who were five and six.
00:14:50
Well, they were asleep on the couch and the person who broke in had stabbed the boys multiple times
00:14:56
and slit her throat. So Devin was stabbed twice in the chest with a ton of force
00:15:04
and Damon was stabbed half a dozen or more times in the back and Darlie, the mom who was sleeping downstairs with the kids,
00:15:13
so her throat was slashed and she had a bunch of other wounds. Darlie's husband and the father of the two boys,
00:15:19
he was asleep upstairs in bed at the time with their seven-month-old baby boy. The two boys ended up dying while Darlie was treated at the hospital
00:15:30
and released two days later. She had two slice wounds in her right forearm and one in her left shoulder.
00:15:38
And her throat had been cut. And the doctor said she survived only because the knife stopped two millimeters short of her carotid artery.
00:15:46
So it doesn't seem like a defensive wound or a self-inflicted wound. She'd be going right up to the verge if that was self-inflicted.
00:15:54
That'd be insane. Exactly. And then the necklace she was wearing had to be surgically removed from the wound.
00:16:00
So it's kind of the only reason it didn't go through the carotid arteries. Her own necklace safer?
00:16:05
Pretty much. Like when they cut, they cut the necklace in. So maybe it would have gone deeper.
00:16:10
And wow. Yeah. So Darlie, who's 26 at the time, says that she fell asleep on the couch with the boys.
00:16:18
And the reason she was sleeping downstairs with them is that she was a light sleeper.
00:16:21
The baby had been waking her up often. And as she's sleeping on the couch, she's awakened by Damon's cries, screaming, mommy, mommy.
00:16:30
And then she saw a man moving through the kitchen and followed him as he went towards the garage.
00:16:37
And when she got to the utility room, she saw a knife and picked it up. And only then, she said,
00:16:43
did she return to Devin and Damon and realize that she had been stabbed as well.
00:16:48
Her husband, Darren, comes downstairs after hearing Darlie cry and scream and begins administering CPR to Devin.
00:16:57
And by then, whoever it was had disappeared, so Darren never saw him. And at the scene, the police find a window screen in the garage has been cut, but the windowsill is undisturbed, like all the dust and dirt still there.
00:17:13
So no one really jumped out of it or in through it. And the knife that was used came from inside the house.
00:17:20
But also there was a sock with the boy's blood on it dropped a few houses down on the sidewalk.
00:17:26
and a few days after leaving the hospital Darlie shows up at the police station with dark bruises all over her arms
00:17:33
saying that they had come from the attack but the doctors who examined her said that the bruises were too fresh
00:17:39
to have been inflicted on the night of the attacks and they say that her wounds are self-inflicted
00:17:46
but I saw them and it is like a full bruise from her shoulder down to her wrist like it's not just a couple little light bruises
00:17:54
It fucking half of her arm is a gnarly bruise Yeah You completely convinced she didn do it to herself I don know that Yes Yes I don know how you would have done that to yourself
00:18:06
Right. But eight days later, on what would have been Devin's seventh birthday, but he died, the family goes to the cemetery, family and friends.
00:18:16
And apparently they're having a ceremony to honor Devin because it's his birthday.
00:18:20
and there's a whole two-hour thing of them crying and having a whole ceremony and it being a sad thing.
00:18:29
But then the only part the news put as footage was when they're having a birthday celebration
00:18:39
following the ceremony in which Darlie is laughing and spraying silly string on the graves
00:18:47
and singing happy birthday. Remember that fucking video footage? and everyone was like, what in the fucking fuck?
00:18:52
This silly string is like, yeah, I will never forget it. She's spraying it at the grave.
00:18:57
It's not even like up in the air. I mean, whatever. She's chewing gum and she's laughing.
00:19:03
And I don't care if you fucking had a ceremony before that and you're crying, it's fucking weird.
00:19:09
And she's just creepy. And so four days later, she's charged with capital murder.
00:19:17
um wait the one who cut her own throat uh-huh or i mean whose throat was cut yeah throat was cut
00:19:26
so closely that she almost it almost cut her two centimeters away from her carotid millimeters
00:19:32
millimeters i don't know crazy yeah she is arrested for capital murder the crime scene
00:19:38
consultant says that the evidence suggests the crime had the crime scene had been staged
00:19:43
So the prosecution suggests that Roti Air murdered her sons because of the family's financial difficulties as well as postpartum depression from her seven-month-old child.
00:19:58
She had never been convicted of anything. She had never shown abuse towards the kid and didn't have any mental illness, apparently.
00:20:06
they described, but they described her as a pampered materialistic woman with substantial
00:20:12
debt, plummeting credit ratings, and little money in the bank who feared that her lavish lifestyle
00:20:17
was about to end. And it's true. She bought, they had a lavish lifestyle for sure,
00:20:22
but fucking said to a lot of people. So San Antonio chief medical examiner testifies that the wound to Rottier's neck came within two millimeters of her crawdad artery,
00:20:33
and that was not consistent with self-inflicted wounds he had seen in the past. But Tom Bevel, who we'll get to, testifies that cast-off blood found on the back of her nightshirt
00:20:44
indicates that she had raised the knife over her head as she withdrew it from each boy to stab against.
00:20:49
It's the old blood spatter that we... Right. And let's remember Tom Bevel's name.
00:20:55
Oh, okay. Mm-hmm. Uh-huh. Mm-hmm. Post-it note on Tom Bevel. Mm-hmm. okay so I listened to the 911 call
00:21:04
because of course I did and I'm about to play the whole thing for you right now no I'm not
00:21:09
and then door slam my car peeling it sounds to me it sounded a lot like the JonBenet Ramsey 911 call
00:21:21
Tatsy Ramsey's like panicked I'm freaking out I can't answer the questions correctly
00:21:26
there's something off and the way that it went when the analysis happened, the me, the I, the, my baby, her, like not,
00:21:36
which I'll get to as well. So it's more the 911 call. She's talking about herself more than the people who need 911 services.
00:21:45
And she's answering questions very well until the question is pointed. And then she freaks out, you know what I mean?
00:21:50
Like remember she was like, what happened? And then Patsy just starts screaming, my baby, my baby.
00:21:56
You know, she won't fucking answer the question. Right. Um, okay. So there's this, okay. So let's get to that. There's this fucking incredible blog
00:22:03
called that statement dash analysis dot blog spot, which I've been to before just to read.
00:22:09
I read John Benet Ramsey, the Patsy Ramsey 911 call analysis. This guy's really fucking good at
00:22:14
it. And it's super cool. Um, he examines the entire call and finds a bunch of discrepancies
00:22:19
that leads to him thinking that she's actually knows more than she's saying. So a couple of the thing is that she's more concerned with explaining what happened than with the fact that her sons are dying.
00:22:31
So she keeps coming to conclusions about they came in. How did they get in? Why would anyone do this?
00:22:39
It's inconsistent. She can't keep her pronouns or articles straight, which this guy statement analysis explains is very weird, such as he says stuff like them and then calls them him and then calls them they.
00:22:53
then someone, then some man. It's never like him. It's never always him or always a certain
00:22:59
person. Who's talking about the guy that broke in. Yeah. It's always a different pronoun,
00:23:04
which I find very, or article. It's very interesting. And in the call, she establishes
00:23:10
her alibi for the fact that, so the 911 caller says, so Darley says that there was a knife in
00:23:19
the utility exit. And the 911 caller says, okay, leave it there. Don't touch it. And Darlie says,
00:23:26
I already grabbed it. And then she says, God, I bet we could have gotten prints from that maybe.
00:23:31
What? But she's having a panic attack. She's panicking while she does that, but I already grabbed it.
00:23:36
I already grabbed it. And like establishing the fact and then goes back to it later.
00:23:39
But sorry, in that panic also says we could have gotten prints off of it. Goes back to it. I can't believe I grabbed the knife reminding you. I bet we could have gotten
00:23:48
prints off of that. But imagine someone having hysterical Patsy Ramsey breakdown during that.
00:23:53
Imagine your children bleeding in front of you and you're talking about where you,
00:23:58
that you could have or couldn't have gotten. She also says, like, I bet this happened.
00:24:03
Like, she's establishing. She's trying to convince the 911 operator of what happened.
00:24:09
Yeah. And her husband, too. So she's trying to convince her husband of what happened while he's administering CPR to his kids.
00:24:17
Instead of asking how they are, she keeps saying, Darren, this thing happened. Can you believe this happened?
00:24:22
Someone broke in, Darren. They broke in. Like, she's trying to convince him of it.
00:24:26
She's talking about the crime as opposed to, like the criminal as opposed to the result.
00:24:30
What happened as opposed to, are they okay? Are they alive? What's happening at this moment?
00:24:35
And he says the mother accepts the children's death even while they're still breathing,
00:24:40
saying they're dead, they're dead. My children are dead. And one of them is dead.
00:24:45
One of them is still breathing. I think he's giving him CPR. And I think he's, like, they can tell that he's still alive.
00:24:52
Yeah. So she keeps acknowledging their death. And he was saying, the guy from this website is saying that, you know, parents won't acknowledge their children's death for even when saying, you know, your kid passed away.
00:25:04
No, no, no, it didn't happen. I don't believe, it can't be true. Right. That's a normal parental.
00:25:10
Sorry. I feel like I've seen that on some shows or whatever. People, how they know it's fake on the 911 call is that exact thing of when you're on the call, it's always about the hope and help and fixing.
00:25:24
here now getting it done get here quicker why aren't they here yet exactly as opposed to like
00:25:29
let's all on this call decide this is over yeah she keeps yelling they're dead they're dead okay
00:25:35
and then here's the other thing about it um so she keeps saying she keeps calling her kids
00:25:42
by different things so it depends on how she's um how she's saying they are that she changes so
00:25:50
at one point she can say they're dead. My babies are dead. And then when they're still alive,
00:25:56
they're called the boys or my children. It changes depending on what state she's saying they're in.
00:26:05
So it's never my babies. It's never the boys, never my children. It's always dependent on
00:26:09
my babies are dead, period. There's never my children are dead. It's always my babies. Then
00:26:15
the children why would they attack the children they're still you know it's it's just like like
00:26:20
she's almost got written her lies these certain ways it's not even it's something rehearsed but
00:26:25
it's also the way like the way someone who was legitimately reacting wouldn't say those things
00:26:31
they wouldn't stick to it they would stick to it but they would my babies or my children they would
00:26:37
stick just one of the whole time yeah i got it yeah um and she can't keep the chronology of her
00:26:44
story consistent things keep fucking changing like them him someone those things are not
00:26:50
they're supposed to say the same the whole time um and because she's doing the whole thing of like
00:26:56
this is this must have been what happened this uh they did this they did that that she has
00:27:02
intimate knowledge of the killer's intentions and thoughts why would they do this you know
00:27:07
and explaining it crazy how long was this fucking 9-1-1 call it's like nine minutes it's like five
00:27:12
and a half minutes. Did you listen the whole thing? Uh-huh. Ugh, dude. Doesn't do nothing for me.
00:27:17
Especially when I know I think they're not. Yeah. That's even worse when they're lying.
00:27:21
I know. No, it's not worse to me. I don't want to hear someone's genuine grief. Oh, that's true.
00:27:27
But it's almost like, well, anyway, God. What? It makes me think of that Sherry Rasmussen thing
00:27:33
I was telling you about that was on Case File. It's an amazing episode. I think it's like
00:27:38
three or four Case Files ago. And if you haven't listened to it, you have to go listen to it.
00:27:42
but it's this woman who was a cop who killed her. She was obsessed with this boyfriend who didn't basically want her.
00:27:49
She ended up killing his wife and then hiding, like basically making sure she would never get caught for it.
00:27:56
For years, right? For years. And then they finally trace it back to her and they have the entire
00:28:01
interrogation, which she doesn't think is an interrogation. And they're telling her is not one.
00:28:06
They just need to ask her a couple of questions. And you basically listen to her lie, lie, lie.
00:28:11
and then it slowly breaks down. And like, I had to turn it off because she, listening to a person who still thinks
00:28:18
that they're lying and getting away with it. They're smarter than the person who.
00:28:22
When it's blatantly obvious, it's just like painfully obvious. And they're playing,
00:28:26
the cops are playing stupid. Like they would never believe. And she's playing stupid.
00:28:30
Yeah. So they're going, they're just basically saying, listen, we just need this information.
00:28:34
And she'd be like, I don't know. Like she did it the same way every time where she would do this fakie stutter.
00:28:40
Yeah. painful that's why I love reading the line for line here like this guy is like
00:28:47
this thing they just said those two little like he'll highlight I instead of me or
00:28:53
you know what I mean like that shit that you just don't pay attention to I fucking love that stuff
00:28:57
like because you can't control it in the moment right because a normal person and they've
00:29:01
and this person studied you know so many normal true 911 calls and confessions that here's what people say
00:29:10
when they're legitimately going through grief and freaking the fuck out. You don't say these other things
00:29:16
and here's how you know they're lying. So, I mean, we know the ones that are lying
00:29:19
and he brings up examples of them a lot of the ones that are like, it's like this one that is untrue,
00:29:26
that is proven to be untrue. I don't know. I think it's fucking awesome. It is. It's fascinating.
00:29:31
Okay. And here's my favorite part. This is the last thing I'll say about it. She also talks about how,
00:29:35
he says she also talks about how the knife is quote, the knife was quote, lying in the garage, like laying in the garage. And then he says, when an inanimate object is
00:29:45
reported to be lying, standing, sitting, et cetera, the passive language suggests the subject placed
00:29:51
it there Knives cannot quote lie down nor stand nor sit So when the language is employed it is a verbal sign that the speaker or the subject is responsible for the placement This is commonly seen in murder weapons and in drugs
00:30:06
as in the drugs were sitting on the cabinet, as an example. And it is like, you think of it,
00:30:13
it's like, it was doing this thing away from me that I had nothing to do with. The drugs were just
00:30:18
sitting on the cabinet instead of the drugs were on the cabinet. it. So it's basically like in their mind, they're watching themselves put it on the ground. So then
00:30:26
it's like, it's lying on the ground. Or they're purposely distancing or saying what they would
00:30:30
have seen if they weren't part of it, if they weren't involved. I saw a knife lying on the
00:30:37
ground. Well, it's like, if you weren't involved in that, you would just see a knife on the ground.
00:30:41
A knife on the ground. Yeah. That's fascinating. Isn't that interesting? Yes. That's like that.
00:30:46
did you ever see that fucking tim roth tv show where it was all about catching lying and
00:30:51
micro expressions and all that no but i knew i would like that every time i heard about it yes
00:30:56
it was that's what that show was like it was all like eyes and what lie to me right yes
00:31:01
it's like right now don't tell me um try it uh that and you look up to you look up one direction
00:31:09
when you're telling the truth remembering and you look up the other when you're lying remember
00:31:13
I can never remember which one is which. I don't know. But then you end up looking at every single person's like blink or like her eyelash moved.
00:31:21
Yes. Is she lying? It doesn't. I think those ones don't apply to everything. But language, it makes more sense.
00:31:27
You can't control it as well. Yeah, because you distance yourself from things by saying certain things.
00:31:33
And it's not rehearsed in that you read a script and said, okay, here's what I'm going to say.
00:31:38
But it's like, and he keeps saying that when you're going from memory, from legitimate memory, you don't stop to say these inconsistencies.
00:31:51
You know, I fucking love it. You don't stop to go, we could have gotten Prince off the neck.
00:31:56
Right. It's just blatantly fucking. Or at that point, it's like, it doesn't matter.
00:32:01
You telling me over and over again that someone broke into your house and came at you doesn't matter.
00:32:06
What matters is getting someone over there right away. Like you don't need it. The 911 operator doesn't need to know that.
00:32:12
You say it once and that's all the information they need to know. Yeah. And they said like when they say 911, what is your emergency?
00:32:20
It's so there doesn't have to be any greeting, any, you know, pretenses. You just fucking say what your emergency is.
00:32:26
And she started with a man came into my house. This happened. I got my throat is slit or whatever.
00:32:34
And my babies got stabbed. like she doesn't even start get someone over here right now my children are dying oh you know like
00:32:42
you don't need this isn't the trial you don't you're not here to tell the story of what just
00:32:47
happened which you clearly made up what should be your immediate action is to save my fucking baby
00:32:54
get someone fucking as soon as possible yeah all right so remember tom bevel i sure do i put a
00:33:01
post-it note on the mental idea of him. I saw that. So he stated that the bloodstains on her Victoria's Secret nightshirt
00:33:09
were, quote, consistent with cast-off blood, blah-biddy-blah. He says that cast-off stains on the front indicate that she could not have
00:33:21
been lying on the couch when the sons were attacked and that the crime scene was staged because of that.
00:33:28
So Tom Bevel is the dude who is being taken to court and has proven that a bunch of the blood spatter analysis that he testified to and got people fucking found guilty for, a lot of that is incorrect and bunk science.
00:33:47
He's the one that made it up, right? Like he basically became a blood spatter expert on his own declaration.
00:33:54
Yeah. And I don't even know if he thinks that he made it up. It's almost like he just seems like a cocky son of a bitch who was like, here's what happens and believed it and became this big time, you know, prosecuting witness and fucking loved it and kept talking about it.
00:34:12
Now, he's the guy from the staircase, right? Yeah. Yeah. That basically, like, at the end, they're just like, all of this is thrown out.
00:34:20
Well, it's so much of that evidence. Like, remember, we were talking about the hair evidence.
00:34:24
Uh, that's not really conclusive. The blood spatter evidence, all this shit is like proving to be bullshit.
00:34:33
All right. So there's evidence to suggest that she wasn't the killer. This, um, article in Texas Monthly by Skip Hollinsworth.
00:34:43
Oh. It's got the best name. So there, several neighbors told police that they had noticed a dark car slowly cruising
00:34:50
through the area in the weeks before the crime. and one even said that the car occasionally stopped
00:34:54
near their house, the Reuters, the Reutier's house. And that a private investigator working
00:35:03
for Darley's appellate attorney says that Darren, her husband, admitted that in the spring of 96
00:35:09
when his business was in trouble and he was $22,000 in debt, he asked Darley's stepfather if he knew anyone
00:35:16
who might break into the family's house as part of an insurance scam. What the fuck?
00:35:21
I know. he admitted this to the reporter Skip Hollinsworth who wrote an article about it
00:35:28
and said that he confessed to the scheme that this was true he asked someone to break into their house
00:35:33
to steal shit so they could make money so they could get the insurance money off the items he stole
00:35:38
which is like different than having someone killed but it's not far from it well it's yes
00:35:45
it's the willingness to break the law so you can get your ass out of whatever financial problem you're in
00:35:50
And it's knowing that you can hire someone to do a deed for you so that you can get insurance money.
00:35:54
And you dumb enough to tell people Which makes me think if you dumb enough to tell the father of your wife who ends up getting her throat slit that doesn seem cagey enough to me too
00:36:10
I don't know. Oh, on his part? Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So anyways, he says that he had discussed it with other people in town.
00:36:21
he says there's a possibility I said the same thing in conversation with people that worked
00:36:25
around me I don't remember what I said but there's a strong possibility that was on my mind
00:36:29
in in conversation I could have said that so he is he is saying that like maybe he mentioned to
00:36:36
someone that that he wanted insurance money so maybe someone broke in and killed his children
00:36:40
and tried to kill his wife so he you know it's like just I don't know it's so fucking weird um
00:36:46
But, so they say his guilt, his, it would have been financial trouble. That was his motive.
00:36:52
And he had a $250,000 life insurance policy on Darlie. So maybe the main motive was to kill her.
00:37:00
Why would he kill, why would they kill the children though? Right. Whatever. But he, but Darren had an $800,000 life insurance policy on him.
00:37:09
So who's to say that if Darlie was and had done it, why wouldn't she have just killed the husband?
00:37:15
Yeah. Why would she kill her two children? It's fucking confusing. And the policies on the kids was really low.
00:37:23
So it wasn't like they were the main motive. He failed a polygraph test and is shown to be lying to four questions.
00:37:29
The questions were, was he involved in any plan to commit a crime at his house on June 6th, 1996?
00:37:35
Did he stab Darlie? Did he know who planted the sock in the alley? And could he name the person who stabbed Darlie?
00:37:43
So he failed those four questions. And, but part of the bargain that the high profile lawyers that cost $94,000 to hire for Darley was that they would agree to not go with the defense attorney, original defense attorney's strategy, which was to raise reasonable doubt for Darley by casting suspicion on the husband.
00:38:09
So they were like, we'll represent you or we'll pay you, but you can't suggest that the husband did it.
00:38:17
Which is weird. So Darlie is convicted of murdering Damon, only one kid. And on February 4th, 97, she's sentenced to death by lethal injection.
00:38:28
Sorry, really quick. Did the second kid live? No, they both died. Okay, okay. She was just still alive on that call.
00:38:34
Right. For some reason, it's just one child. I don't understand. it's just so confounding.
00:38:42
A juror is later expressed regret saying that there were photos of her injuries that never were shown during the trial.
00:38:51
And that she felt coerced by other jurors to find Darley guilty. The court reporter made 33,000,
00:38:59
3,300 mistakes in the transcript, which is now as a court reporter, no, never a court student.
00:39:09
Oh, well, astute someone that knows a little bit about it. You would have never passed your class.
00:39:14
You would never become a court reporter if you made that many mistakes. That's an insane amount.
00:39:20
Like. That's insane. Those people have to be like, because it's, it's what, what their writing becomes like.
00:39:27
It's the only, it's the only evidence of what happened in that courtroom. Yeah. So yeah.
00:39:34
3,300. That should be a mistrial alone. What was she doing? Or he. I don't know.
00:39:40
She acknowledged that she had lied to cover what she feared was an irreversible error that would have gotten Darley a new trial.
00:39:50
So she made these many mistakes and she lied about it. Because she didn't want her to get a new trial?
00:39:56
Because she didn't want to get in trouble. Oh, oh. And she lost her license. I think that's fair.
00:40:02
Yeah. But she was granted immunity from prosecution by the DA's office, which would have had to, which would have, if she had been, if she had spoken about it, they would have gotten a new trial for Darlie. So it's all fucked up.
00:40:16
So I watched like the first jailhouse interview of Darlie and she has that creepy little girl voice of like, I've been, like the weird little girl voice of like, something is not right with your voice.
00:40:30
You know what I mean? Oh, yeah. No, I was just thinking Maria Bamford has a joke. The higher your voice, the angrier you are.
00:40:37
Yeah. Maria Bamford could play this chick really well. I bet she could. She looks like our friend Gowanus McCarthy.
00:40:44
Oh, wow. Pretty blonde, looks all American, and then just has this little voice where she's just trying really hard.
00:40:52
And it's just so creepy because the interviewer, the woman, the news reporter is female.
00:40:58
and the way Darlie is talking to her is just like very it just seems creepy it's just not right
00:41:05
which I know is not a reason why someone killed someone what's the vibe though the vibe is not
00:41:11
understanding that that you seem off like the sociopath like here's what empathy looks like
00:41:18
and I'm trying to do that and I must be so believable oh so like uh what overly or under uh overly not even overly just not authentic she's not overdoing it it just
00:41:39
doesn't seem authentic which i will fucking take back if she's found innocent um little girl voice
00:41:46
oh and at the end of the interview she asks to sing a hymn she used to sing to her sons
00:41:51
And she sings it straight to the camera. No Looking forlornly with her fucking furrowed brow And she does all the like Christina Aguilera highs and lows What are you saying Not very well but does the like Jesus
00:42:08
You know, like, you know? No. Yeah. It's fucking weird. And she's going straight to camera, trying to look sad.
00:42:17
That's, there you go. That's all I need. Do you know what I find weird too? And this could just be me being an atheist,
00:42:23
is like when people are like, well, it's okay. I'm going to see them in heaven. I'm fine.
00:42:28
Like they're fine with someone dying because they think they're going to see them soon,
00:42:32
which is like, if that's what you believe, fine, but you should still be mourning the fact that they're dead
00:42:36
and they died horrifically. You shouldn't be like, it's fine. I'm going to see them one day.
00:42:40
Also, if you're the mother, like any mother, even if their children are full grown,
00:42:47
if the children die before the mother, the mother is fucking ruined. broken there's no time to sing a goddamn song it's like and and the reporter in the show says
00:43:00
she asked to sing a song that she like she can you can tell by the way she says like she didn't
00:43:06
just let it play out with her singing she voiceover um she asked us like and she asked us to do this
00:43:14
wait is it local or is it like a 2020 it's like a 2020 but it's like late 90s um the other thing is
00:43:21
all these people online and there's all these like darlings and darley's innocent darley's not
00:43:25
innocent and everyone goes to um the silly string at the at the graveyard and how fucking crazy that
00:43:32
is and she's laughing and chewing gum and every single time that someone mentions that says well
00:43:36
you don't know how someone grieves for their like that's the argument for everything like you can't
00:43:40
read into that at all because you don't know how you'd grieve and blah blah blah and it's like
00:43:43
that's true for the night of and you're in shock and you don't cry in hysterics but eight days later
00:43:49
and you're fucking laughing and don't have a sign of fucking, you look really pretty and the news vans are there
00:43:56
and they're supposed to be there. Yeah. And you're celebrating. You're doing a show is what you're doing.
00:44:03
You're not, you're quote celebrating. Well, yeah. The idea of like, we're going to celebrate his life
00:44:10
even though it just ended. Yeah, that doesn't happen for 10 years. Then 10 years later, like we're going to celebrate his life.
00:44:17
We're going to let some balloons go. Right. Whatever the fuck. Yes. It's not like laughter and kind of joy.
00:44:22
Also, all of that indicates a drug or a drink of some kind. Because there's a bit of separation of like, to me, that's what that sounds like.
00:44:32
It reminds me of, remember in the, in the, that fucking horrible case. No, I'm not doing it.
00:44:40
Which one? Tell me, tell me, tell me. The, the, whatever three. Oh, West Memphis three.
00:44:44
Yes. remember that one where the the one mother she like once they have to go she starts getting
00:44:51
interviewed and she's clearly fucked up she's like drunken on pills and she's like collapsing
00:44:57
yes like it's that kind of thing where that it makes perfect sense like I don't expect people
00:45:04
to grieve correctly or do anything and I do expect them to take something to medicate themselves so
00:45:09
They don't have to sit in that horrible shit. And you understand denial being like, I'm not crying because I don't understand.
00:45:17
I'm at a hospital around strangers and you're telling me like, this isn't, I'm not at home
00:45:22
looking at my children's clothing. You know, I'm not acknowledging this. This doesn't make any sense right now.
00:45:26
Yeah. You're just in this nightmare world. Right. All of that is fine. Right. But it doesn't have an underpinning of celebration and laughter.
00:45:34
Totally. It has an underpinning of like when you can, when someone's like a tragic drunk and you're like, oh no, they're on the verge of tears.
00:45:42
Yeah. But they're like, eh, it's fine. Everything's fine. Well, the things that remind me, okay, so this happened in June of 96. December of 96 is when fucking JonBenet happened. And there are really a lot of similarities.
00:45:54
is patsy ramsey going on camera and crying about my babies which or my baby hold your babies close
00:46:02
same kind of wording and full face of makeup looks fucking put together as shit is on it already
00:46:10
doing pr her lawyers already like get in there and do some pr and like clean the shit up i mean
00:46:15
no don't don't i i can't imagine first of all i can't imagine what it'd be like to have a child
00:46:23
because it's so goddamn stressful. How you would do anything. Like if I lost a child
00:46:30
and then they were like, you have to go talk on TV. I'd be like, I will murder you.
00:46:35
Like get the fuck away from me. When one of these two little fucking sleepy furry beings
00:46:39
that are hanging out with me right now, my cats, they're not whatever. That could be taken in a lot of ways.
00:46:44
I will fucking, I will be a wreck when these two die. Of course. For the rest of my fucking life
00:46:49
and they're not my children. Right. I don't, It doesn't make any sense to me. So I think what happened is that Darlie and Darren planned something together.
00:47:01
There's no way that he was just oblivious to all of that. No way. Right? Not if he was already asking people if he could make money by getting his house robbed.
00:47:10
He knows insurance scams. Yeah. He knows what's going on. Her deep neck wound, I don't think she could have done herself, but you know, it could have.
00:47:19
Someone else who's fucking trying to make it look that way. But who stabs their own children to death?
00:47:24
How? Maybe the intruder they paid to come in and do it can. They're not their own children.
00:47:31
But? That's not their own children. What do you mean? I think they did hire someone to come in.
00:47:36
But they're hiring someone to kill their own children. You're not saying it's not their children.
00:47:40
You're saying it's not the intruder's children. It's not the intruder's children.
00:47:42
And that maybe Darlie was the only intended victim and something went wrong. Oh, because because there's so many ways she could have covered it up.
00:47:56
She could have just not been sleeping downstairs that night. You know what I mean?
00:48:01
Like, why was she? Because the kids were sleeping downstairs. They were doing that on a regular basis.
00:48:04
It was summer. They watched TV late. They could have, she could have just gone to bed and let the kids sleep downstairs if she really didn't.
00:48:12
Yeah. Why did she have to be in the mix at all? Yeah. And why do you think? Why what?
00:48:18
Why do you think she had to be in the mix at all? That doesn't make any sense to me.
00:48:22
Maybe she, maybe she legitimately has nothing to do with it. And Darren is the only one involved.
00:48:28
maybe it's some guy who worked for him and was like, I'm going to do this and then he's going to owe me money.
00:48:34
And they had nothing to do with it. I don't think that's true because there's no other evidence.
00:48:40
I mean, whatever, fuck, I've been going on too long. I'm sorry. It's just, it's bonkers.
00:48:44
No, it's fascinating. Well, also if she, okay, then, then yeah, flip it around. If she, if he did attack her
00:48:53
and almost killed her and killed her children, then all that other stuff did she just fucking snap and like knowing
00:49:04
is she was she in on it but then didn't think she was going to get attacked and went crazy
00:49:10
maybe or did she realize i mean that's but the thing that they said too is that mothers who kill their children drown them poison them suffocate them don't
00:49:24
Don't manically stab your own child. Stabbing is fucking awful and intense and like the personal one.
00:49:32
Especially when she's never had a history. I mean, aside from postpartum depression, which I think fucking everyone gets, every mother gets.
00:49:39
And, you know, she's freaking out because they don't have any money. So she's stressed.
00:49:44
But you don't go from no mental issues like Andrea Yates, who had them, who kept trying to fucking get help for that.
00:49:53
but there is like the diane downs which is she she shot which is different but close at close range
00:50:04
her three children right uh that's even shooting and stabbing fucking light years
00:50:11
when it comes to your children i'm don't you think i mean we can say this because we don't have kids so we don't well how the fuck a how the
00:50:22
fuck would we know at all b i agree with you in that stabbing is like if it was once if each one
00:50:33
was stabbed once in the chest and they both died throat slit as much as i hate to say it's like you
00:50:38
know you're gonna but here's what i didn't say is that one of the kids was stabbed on the ground
00:50:43
they were on the ground through to the carpet four times oh like it was not a like no you know
00:50:49
It's like a fucking angry stabbing. I know. What happened? I think it was an intruder, but I don't think that they're not involved.
00:51:00
But she's the one that went to jail. And he did not? Death penalty. So she's still on death row?
00:51:05
Yeah. And he is never— He's living with the baby, who's now older, obviously. Because this was from the 90s?
00:51:14
96. Fuck. Yeah, dude. and the whole family is behind her they all don't think she did it like his family ever no one thinks
00:51:24
she did it i mean go watch go watch her interviews and tell me what you think and go watch the video
00:51:31
of her fucking spraying silly string and no i've seen it chomping gum i saw that video like right
00:51:37
after it happened and i can still replay it in my head now at this moment the silly string is so
00:51:43
aggressive. It's like, even if you just was the balloons, the silly string is like, if you fucking
00:51:51
sprayed me with silly string out of nowhere, I would be pissed off. Yes. It's too strong. Yeah.
00:51:56
It's like, it's, it's very, um, it's kind of like some pranks where it's like actually very
00:52:03
aggressive. Like look how stupid you look. You're getting silly stringed in the face.
00:52:07
Cause it's not like too, too. It's like, it's like a weird attack. And she's doing it like that.
00:52:12
to us, to a gravestone. To a gravestone. And she's laughing while she's doing it.
00:52:19
Like, ha ha, guys, isn't this? Introduce me to the person. I 100% agree with the people that are like,
00:52:25
you don't know how other people grieve. Agreed. 100%. I 100% believe if you have a child die,
00:52:30
you get to take every drug you want. You get to drink all the drinks in the world,
00:52:34
do whatever the fuck you want, and it might make you act super weird. But there would still not be an element of celebration,
00:52:42
especially because all of those things have a depressive quality to them. Alcohol is a depressant.
00:52:47
I mean, those pills would be depressant. Everyone's parent. When I die, when I'm 85,
00:52:52
I want you to have a party and celebrate my life. And it's like, okay, dad, nobody fucking does that.
00:52:58
Yeah. Like even your father had like an amazing life. You're not going to be like,
00:53:01
let's have a party. You love this song. No, you're all fucking grieving. But, but in,
00:53:06
even if you're like, like my mom's funeral, there was lots of laughing because she was super funny.
00:53:11
Right. But people were fucking sobbing. You can entertain the complexity of an emotional situation like that.
00:53:21
A child being stabbed to death. By someone you're purporting to not, by some psychopath that you don't know who it is that is on the fucking loose.
00:53:30
Yeah, you don't have a birthday party at the gravesite. You simply do not. You can go to the gravesite and grieve,
00:53:36
but you also don't call the fucking news vans and tell them you're there because they weren't just hanging out there.
00:53:40
It's like when celebrities are like, oh, we got caught having a date at fucking Spago.
00:53:44
It's like, no, your publicist calls and says, so-and-so is going to be at Spago.
00:53:48
So you think she called news vans? I can't imagine. Maybe they followed her there.
00:53:52
I don't know. Like you don there a reason they were there Yes that right That right They thought and maybe it could have been like the singing where she thought this will look good on tape for me Because she doesn understand human emotion
00:54:06
and what it's supposed to look like. And so here's what it's supposed to look like.
00:54:10
We're celebrating their life. Like most normal people who have fucking real emotions
00:54:14
are like, uh-uh. Like, look at this hymn I used to sing to my babies at night. But look at what a great singer I am
00:54:22
is really what it's saying. Right. And look how sad I look Stephen why are you laughing right now
00:54:26
This isn't funny It's funny No it's just It's so gross Yeah It's insanely gross It's like
00:54:33
Can I sing a song Yeah And that the Even the newscaster Or the newswoman was like
00:54:38
No I'm telling you That she asked to do this Because this is fucking weird Yeah I would want to get on tape
00:54:44
You'd be like Make sure everyone understands We didn't pre-produce her Or lead her into this
00:54:49
This was her idea Totally And also that that is a dividing line because it's like, this is a person
00:54:57
who is thinking of themselves and what they seem like more than anything else. What they think a mom should do.
00:55:06
I want to sing this song. It's the song I sang to my children. So she's like, look at this thing I did for my children.
00:55:14
That's right. Not, you know. It's her first. It's the crazy narcissism. You think your kids were really stoked
00:55:21
to hear this song every night about Jesus? this no they want to fuck do you want to sing the fucking itsy bitsy spider like that's what your
00:55:26
fucking little five-year-old kid was into not your fucking hymn of you singing like christina
00:55:31
aguilera man it's also that makes me think of the diane downs video where she in showing the guy
00:55:38
started laughing and flirting with the guy she was the reporter she was supposed to be showing
00:55:43
that is the creepiest video okay here we go that was really long i'm sorry no no no it was good
00:55:51
I liked it Okay Oh Last thing Yeah Her prison job Is cross stitching Baby blankets
00:55:59
That are later sold To state prison employees Baby blankets She cross stitches Can you imagine
00:56:08
Is someone being sarcastic In the jail job Let's give her this job Or is she Is that somehow
00:56:17
Supposed to be her fix She's saying Maybe she's telling people that but it's not true.
00:56:22
They trust me enough to make their baby blankets, but really it's like. I also want to know about that neck wound.
00:56:29
It's neck wound, right? I mean, there's photos of it and you can't tell because it's covered up by like bandages,
00:56:34
but it looks, I don't know, I can't tell. But from what I read about it, it's deep.
00:56:41
Fucking crazy. Yeah. Also because most of those people just, they do something to the opposite arm.
00:56:48
And it was on both sides of her body that she got hit. which is not normal. He was in it.
00:56:54
He did it to her. She wasn't supposed to do it as deep, maybe. Fuck, man. When do we find out?
00:57:03
What? If that really happened? What happened? Tomorrow. Oh, good. You call me? Yeah.
00:57:08
Okay. We'll go to our Twitter. We're going to be the only ones who know, and we're going to.
00:57:14
I mean that it is like cut to 40 years later. It's just all these, that's how all these are.
00:57:19
and maybe that's part of the draw. It's just that thing of like this long real life mystery.
00:57:25
And you can like entertain all these different possibilities because you don't want to be like,
00:57:31
this is what happened and I know it. Right, because you can't be. Who fucking knows?
00:57:35
Who knows? But also, you know a little, like that thing of like analyzing language and stuff.
00:57:44
And it's been 20 years. Can you fucking believe that? so you know i read conflicting comments on every fucking thing of like this happened this happened
00:57:55
i'm like i never read anything about fingerprints anywhere else what are you fucking talking about
00:57:59
and then you have to go down that let's just like was there any new stuff just little things dna
00:58:05
they're gonna do dna testing on this fingerprint like i don't know but nothing is been concluded
00:58:10
too it is pretty fascinating that that guy that the blood spatter expert was in this case
00:58:15
Right. Specifically him. How many? Did he just travel around the country fucking up murder cases?
00:58:22
It sounds like it. All right. Piece of shit. Okay, we're back. How about any updates for this case?
00:58:34
No updates. Nothing really has changed. I did hear from a friend who grew up down the street from this case.
00:58:41
after I covered it, my friend Jackie Johnson, who was like, it was the talk of the neighborhood, obviously.
00:58:47
But Darlie remains on death row, continues to maintain her innocence, and she and her family continue to file appeals
00:58:53
and claim there is DNA that will eventually clear her. Ugh. I know, I mean, as of 2024,
00:59:00
prosecutors say they have tested 100 DNA samples from the scene and all belonged to Darlie and the little boys.
00:59:08
So, who knows? I mean, will she ever, it's been 30 years. I can't imagine she'll just turn now after all her family's been supporting her and stuff too.
00:59:16
Right. You can't just be like, okay, I'm done with this. That's right. Especially such a heinous fucking crime.
00:59:23
It's so horrible. And then you can just keep switching from this is a person who actually did this and has been lying this whole time to this is a person who did not do this and is trying to convince people like you have to believe me.
00:59:36
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I mean, I don't know which one's worse. Yeah, definitely. You don't have to pick.
00:59:43
I won't pick. Please, thank you. I just realized. They're horrible and we'll never know, I think.
00:59:49
Choice in life. Oh my God. Okay, let's get into your famous story about Fatty Arbuckle.
00:59:59
Your husband is not who you think he is Your body is not what you thought it was Your identity is formed by a secret history
01:00:06
I'm Dani Shapiro, and these are just a few of the stunning stories I'll be exploring
01:00:11
on the 14th season of Family Secrets. Just then, we felt the plane turn in the air.
01:00:18
So much so that the bags that were under people's seats just kind of flew into the aisle.
01:00:23
Each week, we dive headfirst into the complex power of secrecy, how it shapes our identities and relationships,
01:00:31
and how it ultimately can reveal to us our truest selves. My daughter, she's pretending she doesn't know,
01:00:37
but is trying to cook and feed me and keep me alive because I wasn't eating anything,
01:00:41
and me pretending like everything was fine. He kind of shoved me out of the way and said, move,
01:00:46
and he went out the front door and he jumped in a car and drove off, and that was the last time I saw him.
01:00:51
Listen to season 14 of Family Secrets on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:01:21
Binge all 10 episodes of The Secret World of Roald Dahl now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
01:01:27
or wherever you get your podcasts. that, guys. Listen to Hey Jonas on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
01:01:55
wherever you get your podcasts. Just listen. We don't care where you hear it. I'm Nancy Glass, host of
01:02:01
the Burden of Guilt Season 2 podcast. This is a story about a horrendous lie that destroyed
01:02:07
two families. Late one night, Bobby Gumpright became the victim of a random crime.
01:02:13
The perpetrator was sentenced to 99 years until a confession changed everything. I was a monster.
01:02:21
Listen to Burden of Guilt Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
01:02:31
Well, are you ready for this one? Always. This is a story that I heard when I first moved to Los Angeles.
01:02:39
This is kind of like a popular old-timey Hollywood rumor story, which is the Fatty Arbuckle rape and murder case.
01:02:49
Have you ever heard that one? Yes, I love this one, but I don't know a ton of facts about it.
01:02:52
Okay, same here. That's why I looked into it, which makes it fascinating because the only thing I ever knew for a really long time
01:02:59
was Fatty Arbuckle was a silent film star around the time of Charlie Chaplin and Harold Lloyd.
01:03:07
And he was, that he raped and killed a girl. That's the only thing I knew, that he was a huge star.
01:03:15
And then after that, his reputation, of course, was ruined and you never heard from him again.
01:03:19
so here's the real story. Uh, and it's pretty amazing. So Fatty Arbuckle, when he was eight years old,
01:03:28
um, we're just going to start from the beginning as if we don't know anything. We don't know any of that,
01:03:33
any, any of those stories. Got it. Let's just tell it like that. Okay. Because that's what the very aggressive British narrator of this Fatty Arbuckle
01:03:41
crimes and misdemeanors or some fucking show that I watched. He was just like, and none of it's true.
01:03:46
And he's just like really defensive of Fatty Arbuckle. Okay. So, but he was basically like, put it all out of your mind.
01:03:56
Stop thinking. Stop thinking about it. Okay. So in 1895, Fatty Arbuckle was a kid hanging around the back door of a theater.
01:04:05
And a producer walks by and sees him and grabs him and says, do you want to be in a play?
01:04:10
Because they needed a kid to play an eight-year-old. And he does it and he's great.
01:04:14
and he ends up being in every production that they did at that theater that year.
01:04:19
He was a magician's assistant. He went from, it was everything from being a magician's assistant
01:04:23
to having a small part in a Victorian drama. So he was like made for the theater.
01:04:30
Then four years later, his mother dies and his father abandons him. So he just starts having to work just by himself.
01:04:38
As a young teen, he works in a hotel and his coworkers one day overhear him singing
01:04:45
and they encourage him to enter a talent contest. And he does and he wins it. And that's how he gets into vaudeville.
01:04:52
So this was like right at that time where it was the very beginning of silent movies.
01:04:58
This is when all of Los Angeles was Orange Groves and then like three basically film studios,
01:05:04
one of which was Max Sennett's Keystone Films. and Max Sennett's Keystone Films was like huge.
01:05:12
And that's, they would just go basically take people out of vaudeville and start making movies of them.
01:05:18
So like, if you see, you know, very few people have seen that much of Fatty Arbuckle,
01:05:24
but like, if you see any, and I highly recommend that you do it, like W.C. Field started in vaudeville also.
01:05:30
And when you start in vaudeville and you work in vaudeville, you have to be able to do this crazy shit.
01:05:37
So it's like you have to be an acrobat and you have to like do sleight of hand and you have to kind of learn all the things so that you can be any act basically.
01:05:47
Like if you're a comedian back then, you kind of had to be much more talented than you have to be now.
01:05:53
The play to the back of the room. Right And so like I mean this is I only saw the clips that they had in this documentary of Fatty Arbuckle but he was like fat big and fat but he was super graceful and
01:06:07
he could like kind of do anything. And he, it was of course a lot of physical comedy,
01:06:11
but he would do these really funny things. Like he would do a thing and trip and then he would
01:06:15
recover and do almost like a ballerina move. So it was, I laughed out loud during this documentary.
01:06:21
I love it. Basically, they pull him out of vaudeville. He starts making short films for Max Sennett.
01:06:27
And he is basically kind of the fat guy foil for like Charlie Chaplin. He becomes the most popular comedian that make any of these films.
01:06:38
People love him. And then they let him start directing his own. He hired, I believe he's the first person to hire.
01:06:47
I shouldn't say first person, but he's one of the earliest people to work with and hire.
01:06:51
Harold Lloyd and Buster Keaton. But Buster Keaton worked under him for a while. I have such a crush on Buster Keaton.
01:06:58
Buster Keaton is fucking amazing. He's so hot. The big eyes? Yes. Yeah. And legitimately amazing.
01:07:05
Yeah. No, I mean, incredible. Yeah. And also hot. And well, because like he did all those fucking stunts.
01:07:12
Yeah. Like he did them. Yeah. They actually showed a clip of a movie that was a very early Fatty Arbuckle movie.
01:07:20
and in it, it was called Backstage, I believe. And it was about these people that were like,
01:07:25
it was like a silent film about a comedy about life in the theater. But there's a part where he's sitting there
01:07:30
serenading a girl and the front of the house falls down over him. Yeah. That basically later on Charlie Chaplin made famous
01:07:38
and got super famous for. And it was basically like of Freddie Arbuckle. So it's-
01:07:43
Sorry. It's a little bit like he was one of the original case of comedy. He started the tour.
01:07:52
It was his idea. So he becomes huge at Max Sennett Studios or Keystone Studios and he
01:08:02
starts making a bunch of movies, short movies with Mabel Norman, who was a famous
01:08:06
actress at the time. And the two of them got crazy popular. It was like, it was super
01:08:12
cute. They were like husband and wife and then they would it would just be these little comedic kind of
01:08:16
vignettes. and they got so popular that they were asked in 1915 they were asked to go to
01:08:25
it was called the World's Something Fair in San Francisco so I don't know if it was the World's Fair
01:08:31
the official one or like a specific fair for something yes but they basically silent film
01:08:38
was becoming this huge business the film industry was like exploding and the PR industry
01:08:43
around the film industry was exploding so like podcasts exactly you are finally figuring it out they were like what we are the new mabel
01:08:54
norman and fatty arbuckle yeah do not say who's who you're mabel arbuckle and i'm fatty norman
01:09:00
nice nice cover fair very fair um so uh by the summer of 1921 um he he had moved to paramount
01:09:15
pictures so i'm sure there was some kind of like and i think this might i don't know in i have
01:09:20
theories about this he moved from max senate studios to paramount pictures and he got paid
01:09:27
a million dollars a year in that money that time yes holy fuck balls that is crazy it's crazy he
01:09:35
signed a contract for three million dollars a three-year contract for three million dollars
01:09:39
Can you imagine if we got one of those right now in this life? No, I know. And back, this was fucking 1920.
01:09:46
Like this was the Great Depression essentially, or well, 10 years before. But still like-
01:09:51
Bananas money. It was like back when people would be like, brother, can you spare a dime?
01:09:57
And that was like a meaningful amount of money. Yeah. So- Penny candy. Button candy,
01:10:06
the most useless candy with pieces of paper stuck on it that has ever been invented.
01:10:12
So that contract was for him to star in 18 silent films in three years. He, he had just made a movie called crazy to marry.
01:10:25
Tell me about it. Right. And it was playing in theaters across the country. And he had,
01:10:34
I think he had just finished six feature length films in seven months. Can you fucking imagine?
01:10:42
Yeah. That's bullshit. That's like you make a full on movie a month and then he's like
01:10:48
guys I'm tired let's go on vacation. Take a nap bro. Yeah. So he's that was his plan.
01:10:52
So him and two of his friends decide they're gonna drive up to San Francisco to have like a weekend of fun.
01:10:58
Do you know how long I'm sorry how long it would take to drive to San Francisco back then?
01:11:01
Oh fucking Three million is a lot of money. It would take you 14 and a half hours to drive to San Francisco.
01:11:06
If that, like, and there would be no gas. You'd have to bring gas with you. You'd have to wind your car up.
01:11:13
Did they do that still then? That's right. It would take you 29 hours to get up there.
01:11:18
20 wines. It would take you so much energy. All right. So there was no five back then.
01:11:25
No, there was no five freeway. You were on that one the whole time. Okay. In the days leading up to this weekend,
01:11:32
And Fatty Arbuckle was not in the best of moods because he was having his Pierce Arrow automobile serviced
01:11:41
when he sat down on an acid-soaked rag at the garage. What? And the acid burned through his pants to his buttocks,
01:11:51
causing second-degree burns. What the fuck kind of acid? And he, I don't know, I get that's something that they did in the 20s.
01:11:58
Very common acid rag. were everywhere. Um, so he wanted to cancel the trip, but his friend, um, what's this guy's name?
01:12:07
Al Fishback. The fuck is his name? Where is it? Somebody Fishback. I'll find it.
01:12:14
Um, said, no, we got to go. It's going to be fun. We've already planned it. Whatever.
01:12:20
My butt is burning. I have to sit for 29 hours. You know what he did? He secured his friend Fishback, just, just secured a rubber padded
01:12:28
ring for our buckle to sit on. Can you secure a go fuck yourself for me to sit on?
01:12:34
For me to sit on. They made the drive up the coast to the St. Francis Hotel in San Francisco.
01:12:40
Is that nice? Have you been there? Very fancy. Has the best like lobby. It's the one that's on Union Square.
01:12:48
At Christmas time, they have a humongous Christmas tree and they have a great bar.
01:12:53
I want to go. We should totally go. We're going to Oakland. We have no time. We do not.
01:12:58
jump on that BART to go sit in the bar at the St. Francis. For three minutes. Bye, everybody.
01:13:03
But it's the kind of place that like, I don't know what the style is. I would guess Art Deco.
01:13:09
Georgian. Georgian. But it's, the ceilings are so high. Yeah. And it's so gorgeous.
01:13:15
Yeah. I love that shit. Okay. So they're staying there. Good spots. So that's where they are.
01:13:19
Okay. They've got, so they have two rooms that are adjoined to a reception suite.
01:13:25
Jesus. So basically a party room in the center, two rooms off the sides. That's what we have books for our trip.
01:13:31
Is that how we're doing it the whole time? Okay. And then we were going to pick people.
01:13:35
You can come to the party suite. You can sit in the reception room, but you can't come into the suite.
01:13:40
You have to earn your way into the suite. Okay. So Fishback arranged everything.
01:13:46
Now it's prohibition era. Okay. So there's no, legally there's no liquor. Sure. But San Francisco was known as an open city,
01:13:55
which meant there's fucking liquor everywhere. Teacups abound. That's right. Go San Francisco, go.
01:14:03
So Fishback has arranged the liquor to be delivered to the hotel room. And on Labor Day, September 5th, 1921,
01:14:13
Fatty Arbuckle awakes to find that there are many uninvited guests that for at least uninvited from him
01:14:19
in the reception room. How annoying is that? And he also has a bunch of work to do.
01:14:26
And I guess he was up there like they were going to have fun, but he also, I guess, had a meeting.
01:14:32
So he was walking around in his pajamas when he saw that, like basically the first thing that happened was his friends,
01:14:44
it's like, I want to say Al Fishback. And there's another guy named Lo Loman or something like that.
01:14:50
Al and Lo Fishback Loman. Um, so they went out and when they came back, they were like, we just saw, um, that actress.
01:15:02
Uh, it was a woman named Victoria Rapp. And they're like, we just saw her in the hotel of a different, in the lobby of a different
01:15:09
hotel. So we're going to bring her over here. And, um, uh, so she comes over a couple other people, a woman named Ma Delmont shows up
01:15:21
after a little while. Now, Ma Delmont had a very bad reputation. She was known as, there's one guy in this documentary who said she'd basically been arrested for everything except murder.
01:15:33
Wow. So she was known as a madam. She was known as a blackmailer. She had been arrested a bunch of time for fraud.
01:15:43
This all sounds awesome. Right. It sounds like she's in charge of her fucking destiny.
01:15:48
A couple people's destinies, actually. Sure. So she shows up after, I hope, I can't see any of these names anymore.
01:15:58
My eyes are going insane. Want me to look? It's, I want to say Victoria. Anyway, the young, pretty actress shows up.
01:16:09
Maude shows up after. Then a couple other people show up. It turns into a party.
01:16:13
Fatty Arbuckle is basically like, I can't fight this anymore, whatever. And he starts drinking too.
01:16:19
So they're all drinking. And at one point, one of his friends who started the party and Maude Delmont go into one of the adjacent bedrooms bathrooms and they're in there for a while.
01:16:36
And while they're in there and everybody else is partying, Virginia Rapp, who's been drinking with everybody and hanging out and having a good time, gets nauseous and feels sick.
01:16:46
So she goes into that adjacent bedroom To go into the bathroom to get sick But they're in there
01:16:52
And they tell her to go into the other bathroom So she goes into what is basically
01:16:56
Fatty Arbuckle's bedroom And she gets sick in that bathroom So Fatty Arbuckle realizes
01:17:02
He has to go to this meeting So he goes in to take a shower To shave and shower or whatever
01:17:07
To get ready for the meeting And he finds Virginia on the floor in his bathroom And he assumes that she's just drunk
01:17:15
And she can't handle her liquor and so he gets her up off the floor and puts her on the bed and then he goes into the bathroom
01:17:22
shuts the door takes a shower shaves takes like 10 minutes in there and gets ready and when he
01:17:27
comes out he sees that she's gotten sick again on the bed so at that point he goes out into the party
01:17:33
and says um I think this girl is actually really sick we should call a doctor call somebody
01:17:39
so they call a doctor a doctor shows up and a little while later a female nurse shows up
01:17:46
they you know I was going to say inspect her they look at you know give her the once over what the word I looking for what are we looking for not inspect not the once over It not inspect Exam examine They examine her They examine her
01:18:05
There's, she's not, she, there's nothing wrong with her physically. She has no bruises on her.
01:18:12
There's, she's not been hurt in any way. But they see that she's, has a very bad fever and she's in a lot of pain.
01:18:20
And she's got, the pain is coming from her stomach area. and so they decide that she should go to a local hospital so they take her out of there like a
01:18:32
couple hours go by i think and then they finally they finally get her out of there and they take
01:18:37
her uh eventually they find out that they had taken her to a maternity hospital she was having
01:18:42
a miscarriage no what they think is um sorry that no no but they what they think is that she was
01:18:51
either her appendix burst or her bladder burst. But they don't know because when the coroner
01:19:00
finally got her body after she died. She dies in this hospital. She died in the maternity hospital.
01:19:06
Her body is brought back to Los Angeles, I believe. Or they did the coroner in San Francisco.
01:19:12
But I assume because she was an actress in Los Angeles. When the body is inspected by the coroner,
01:19:19
all of her sex organs have been removed. so there's nothing to look at they don't know there's no reason for it also they said bringing
01:19:28
a woman who was sick in this in this way to the maternity hospital was a super weird decision
01:19:34
she's not going to get the thing she needs exactly she should have gone to like the general hospital
01:19:39
right um so she had she basically suffered with whatever her internal illness was because they
01:19:47
all assumed she was drunk yeah they all just were like oh it's some kind of floozy actress from la
01:19:52
who was at this like drank too much couldn't hold her liquor yeah with this party that they shouldn't
01:19:57
have even had liquor in the first place with all these actors and hollywood types these sinful
01:20:02
hollywood types so basically um they don't know when they leave san francisco a fatty and his
01:20:11
friends um they just know that she was sick and she got taken to the hospital they don't know
01:20:15
anything else. Um, so, uh, he gets a call from the San Francisco police saying this girl died.
01:20:25
Can you come up and answer some questions? And he's like, of course. So he goes up to San Francisco
01:20:30
to answer some questions. And what he doesn't know is that, uh, Mod Delmont had told the police,
01:20:40
that Arbuckle had raped Virginia Rapp and that Maude had heard her screaming in the other room,
01:20:53
that she knocked on the door and kicked on it. And after a delay, Arbuckle came to the door in his pajamas,
01:21:00
wearing Rapp's hat, cocked at an angle, smiling, and behind him, Rapp was sprawled on the bed and moaning.
01:21:08
and she said that Fatty had said to the actress, I've waited for you for five years and now I've got you.
01:21:19
So, and then basically she's told the police he did it. He attacked her and that because he forced himself on her,
01:21:30
that caused her bladder to burst. And that's why she was in that situation. And so Fatty Arbuckles like went up there to be like, yeah, here's what happened.
01:21:44
Meanwhile, there were like a handful of witnesses that witnessed the first way I told it to you.
01:21:51
They all watched him walk in, like watched her walk into the other room, come back out, go into the other room by herself.
01:21:59
Watched him walk in after her and then come back out, like put her on the bed, come back out.
01:22:03
Like all the doors were open. And also Ma Delmont was in the bathroom of the other bedroom with the door closed fucking his friend.
01:22:12
So there was no way she could have heard her screaming. And no one else that was in the middle room closer to her heard screaming at all.
01:22:22
And they all attested to that. But the problem was not only was it prohibition, but the film industry was coming under a lot of scrutiny.
01:22:33
because there were, and they were showing clips of like movies where a man looked at a woman's ankle
01:22:38
and they both give each other like the eye. So there's like this, it was pre-Hays Code.
01:22:44
So it's like- Decency shit. Exactly. So there's a lot of people in the country that are like,
01:22:50
alcohol is of the devil and so are movies. So it's silent films. Here's what it leads to, the show, yeah.
01:22:56
And he's basically the king of all of it. Right. Making a shit ton of money off of it.
01:23:01
So this, the district attorney in San Francisco was a man named Matthew Brady. And he saw this case, who it was, what the scenario was,
01:23:09
as the perfect political situation for himself because he wanted to have a career in politics.
01:23:18
And he knew if he could put Fatty Arbuckle away as this rapist and basically- Headlines.
01:23:25
Exactly. And also kind of like alcohol was part of it. And that's another reason.
01:23:30
And just like the whole mix was perfect. And specifically a bottle of alcohol being the fucking murder weapon.
01:23:37
The wine bottle that he supposedly. Oh, right. Yeah, exactly. That was gossip. That actually came out way later.
01:23:45
That didn't come in. But him like basically using his body and smashing it, like smashing her to death.
01:23:54
The whole thing was so it kind of also perfect because he was such when you see his face It just this big smile He looks like a big moon face guy All of his comedy was really light and cutesy And so to be
01:24:07
like, oh, this guy's a monster was perfect for all of the tabloid rags. And William Randolph Hearst
01:24:14
had basically had a field day with this story. They had just been, the newspapers that came out
01:24:22
about Fatty Arbuckle and this rape and murder sold more than this, when this Lusitania sank.
01:24:29
Jesus. Like it was, it, it was the hugest story and they never stopped. They, they actually took,
01:24:35
there was, um, the San Francisco police released a picture of Fatty Arbuckle when they were
01:24:40
like, now you're under arrest. And he was just like, sorry, what I came up here to answer your questions.
01:24:44
So it's this picture of him standing there just looking completely like what the fuck?
01:24:49
And they took the picture, released it. and that went straight into the tabloids.
01:24:54
And then the next picture they did, they actually early version photoshopped. So it's him standing there looking off
01:25:02
and they photoshopped bars in front of him. So it looked like a reporter got in and took a picture of him sitting in jail,
01:25:08
which they never did. So basically they tried and convicted him in the newspaper.
01:25:14
And people couldn't get enough of this story because it was one of the first big Hollywood scandals.
01:25:19
I mean, I think it may have been the first big Hollywood scandal and it was so graphic and so terrible that, I mean, that's, so anyway, the problem was that when they get in to get all their witnesses and their stories for trial, Ma Delmont cannot keep her story straight.
01:25:43
So she had told them at first that she and Virginia Rep were lifelong friends. Then the next time that they talked to her,
01:25:50
she says that they just met days before the party. Also, they discovered then that she has this insane criminal record.
01:25:59
A lot of people know her as Madame Black. She had procured women for parties where she knew wealthy male guests
01:26:07
would find themselves accused of rape and blackmailed, blackmailed into paying her.
01:26:13
So that was basically her whole thing that she did. And yet, then there was the matter of the fact that there were telegrams that she had
01:26:23
sent to attorneys in both San Diego and Los Angeles that read, we have Roscoe Arbuckle in a hole here,
01:26:30
chance to make some money out of him. Holy shit. Yeah. But even though he knew, he knew those facts,
01:26:39
he still took the case to trial. And those newspapers never questioned Delmont's version of the events
01:26:47
or ever talked about her background or what an unreliable witness she was. They just went after him relentlessly.
01:26:57
And Buster Keaton and Charlie Chaplin vouched for his character and tried to speak out for him,
01:27:02
but it was too late and his reputation was in shambles. Um, also, uh, Fatty Arbuckle's lawyers introduced medical evidence showing that Rapp had had a
01:27:14
chronic bladder condition and her autopsy concluded that were, there were no marks of
01:27:19
violence on her body. There were no signs that she had been attacked in any way, but the defense
01:27:25
wouldn't let, um, uh, sorry, the, the, um, prosecution wouldn't let the doctor who had
01:27:34
treated rap at the hotel testify. Um, cause she had told the doctor that fatty Arbuckle had not tried to sexually
01:27:41
assault her. Um, but the prosecutor got that point dismissed as hearsay. So that was not,
01:27:48
sorry. Um, yeah. So that didn't get in at all. Um, and meanwhile, the defense was going to call witnesses that had damaging information about
01:28:00
Virginia rap's past and fatty Arbuckle would not let them test out of respect for the dead, he said. So he took the stand in his own defense
01:28:11
and jurors voted 10 to 2 for his acquittal. Wow. 10 to 2? Right. So there were two people that
01:28:18
were holding out. And so then the prosecution tried him a second time, the jury deadlocked
01:28:24
again. And it wasn't until his third trial that Fatty Arbuckle allowed his attorneys to call the
01:28:31
witnesses who had known rap to the stand and um and that was only because his funds were depleted
01:28:37
he had spent seven hundred thousand dollars on his defense his career was dead um they testified
01:28:44
that rap had suffered previous abdominal attacks drank heavily just often disrobed at parties after
01:28:50
doing so was promiscuous and had an illegitimate daughter um which none of which is none of which
01:28:58
Only the first one is relevant. The drinking and the abdominal taxer was relevant.
01:29:04
But at that point, they were like, it's a character assassination and just attack.
01:29:12
One of them also attacked Maude Delmont as the complaining witness that never witnessed.
01:29:16
So they're basically up there saying, that woman saw nothing. And yet she was your main witness.
01:29:22
But those were the only people that could say that. And he hadn't let them say it up until that point.
01:29:27
so on April 12th 1922 the jury acquitted Arbuckle of manslaughter and the after deliberating for
01:29:34
five minutes Jesus um oh the poor dude and the poor woman after after a week later um Will Hayes
01:29:43
for whom the motion picture industry hired as a censor to restore its image because this was such
01:29:49
a huge scandal that like the entire motion picture industry was rocked And Will Hayes banned Fatty Arbuckle from ever appearing on screen again He would change his mind eight months later but the damage had already been done
01:30:06
and Arbuckle changed his name to William B. Goodrich or Will B. Good. And he worked behind the scenes directing films
01:30:14
for friends who remained loyal to him, barely earning a living in the only business he had ever known.
01:30:21
And a little more than 10 years later in 1933, he had a heart attack and died in his hotel room.
01:30:27
He was 46. Holy fuck. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's really fucking depressing. I didn't know it was like,
01:30:37
there was so much evidence that he hadn't done it. I know. It's weird. Like no one talks about that.
01:30:44
Well, I think it's like why that guy was all fired up at the beginning of that special.
01:30:49
But then when you actually hear it, it's that thing that makes perfect sense because it's like the early days of,
01:30:54
like getting people over a barrel and, and blackmailing and decency laws and all this crap.
01:31:01
It makes me, you know, it makes me sad. I feel like if Virginia had lived, she would have fucking blown this off so much.
01:31:11
I mean, like this never, you know, it's like sad when it's like, you're not doing justice for the victim.
01:31:15
You're just, it's not, you're not helping the victim by accusing Fatty Arbuckle of doing this.
01:31:20
Yeah. It has nothing to do with the victim. She's just taking advantage of like a horrible situation.
01:31:24
scenario. It's just bullshit at that point. And also the idea that, that that woman was even
01:31:31
invited to that party when she's like a known criminal in my mind, it's like, I think there's,
01:31:37
and I bet you if I did one hour more research, there's probably a lot of information about it,
01:31:42
but there's probably a really good chance he was getting set up. If he was like making the most
01:31:47
amount of money in show business. It sounds like that's what she did. Well, it's what she did definitely. But like somebody probably had it out for him.
01:31:54
Yeah. And wanted to bring him down specifically for some reason. Was it his friend who insisted that he come with him to San Francisco?
01:32:02
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Oh, I get it. That's fucked up, man. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, we're back.
01:32:11
It's an old case, but any updates? I don't have any updates. I do have several bits of business, of course,
01:32:18
because you can always do a corrections corner, even from across the decades. That's what's beautiful.
01:32:23
Like you can always in your life remember that. It's never too late to say, I'm sorry.
01:32:29
The two friends in San Francisco with Fatty Arbuckle, their names were Fred Fishback and Lowell Sherman.
01:32:35
Thank God you cleared that up. And I genuinely am sorry from the bottom of my heart.
01:32:40
The audience has been waiting for you. They're just like, and you better apologize.
01:32:45
My grandpa Lowell is turning in his grave. I said in the original Al Fishback and another guy possibly named Lo Loman.
01:32:55
Al Fishback. That's a good fucking name. Al Fishback would be a good name for like a line of clothing.
01:33:01
Al Fishbacks. My stepdad wears it. He loves Al Fishback. Okay. So there have been biopics for this story discussed over the years.
01:33:13
you know people have pitched it for Chris Farley for Louis Anderson R.I.P. the great Louis Anderson
01:33:19
incredible wonderful man Eric Stonestreet from Modern Family they've all been attached
01:33:25
but a full feature film has never been made but there of course have been nods to the Fatty Arbuckle kind of story
01:33:34
throughout media over the years you know lots of times as a joke but it's actually kind of a tragic thing.
01:33:43
It's like his name is forever, forgive me for using the word besmirched, but it is.
01:33:49
It's like that name always means a disgusting kind of sexual assault and it isn't true.
01:33:56
He was featured in that show that we loved called, not Matlock. A Crime to Remember.
01:34:02
Not A Crime to Remember. Probably that one too, but I'm thinking of the one where he was the lawyer.
01:34:07
Yep. Old Ironsides. where he's so cute. What's it called? Back in L.A. lawyer. No, it's...
01:34:15
The Welsh guy. Yeah, he goes on stand and his name is... His name... The lawyer's name
01:34:21
is the name of the TV show. Yes. It's on HBO. It had the best opening graphics of all time.
01:34:27
Remember that it would come up and then it would be like the city behind it? Oh, yeah.
01:34:31
That was so pretty. Are you talking about Perry Mason? Perry Mason! Perry Mason!
01:34:34
God damn it! Perry Mason. Yes, we are. Thank God we got that name right. starring Al Fishback
01:34:41
and Perry Mason. And Lo Loman. Lo Loman. As the dad. As the dad. God, I love that show.
01:34:50
That's the one that has to come back for season three. For sure. For sure. I might rewatch season two
01:34:55
now that you're, if you insist. I insist. Okay, we're about to listen to the end of episode 56.
01:35:02
We do our good things. Oh, yeah. This is cute. I like that. um do we have a good thing this week do you see that thing right there
01:35:15
Roomba that's my good thing this week it's the best thing that's ever happened no it's great I'm serious talk about it it's a Roomba it's a vacuum that you and your cats
01:35:29
follow around my house and just watch and cheer on. So what, you just set it and it just vacuums
01:35:36
while you do other stuff? Or while you follow it around and watch it. How long does it take?
01:35:41
Well, however long you want it. You set it and forget it. I'm serious. It's like, and it gets all this cat hair
01:35:47
and we all follow it around. It's great. Wow. I know. What about you? I was just staring at this Roomba,
01:35:55
that Roomba the whole time. I'm not like actively staring at it. but lovingly gazing at it.
01:36:03
What? Oh, well, I think I told you this personally, but, or maybe I talked about, I can't remember.
01:36:09
But I went to see the Zodiac. Did I talk about that on the mini show? No, you talked about it to me at lunch yesterday.
01:36:15
Okay, that's good, good. Okay, so CineFamily, which is the movie theater in town
01:36:20
that shows rad things often and that I love and need to rejoin. I was a member for a year and then I was like,
01:36:28
I never go to the movies. It's like, why am I doing this? And then it's like, oh, because support,
01:36:32
keep businesses open that do shit that's awesome. Right. And that's a perfect example
01:36:37
because it's so cheap to be a member. And then they do things like this, which is they did a special showing of the movie Zodiac.
01:36:45
So fucking cool. And it is the best movie. I keep thinking about it because when you see it in the theater,
01:36:52
like the sound was really good and that theater was really small. That movie, that theater used to be called
01:36:58
the silent movie theater, which is kind of hilarious. Where a guy got fucking shot
01:37:01
and killed in. Yes. Did I ever tell you that story? That they did a benefit at Largo
01:37:08
for the guy. It was two, it was a gay couple that ran the silent movie theater and one got shot.
01:37:16
By an ex-employee, right? Well, they did this benefit. They raised money for the guy
01:37:21
that was still alive and then that guy got arrested because it was, he had his lover murdered.
01:37:27
Fuck. Fuck. Okay whoops Take that money back Yeah I love that story because Flanagan and John Bryan they were down the street at Largo and they were like oh my God this terrible thing happened to this man
01:37:41
We have to raise money. And they did this whole huge, like they kept talking about it on all the shows.
01:37:47
And they had all these special shows to raise money for the silent movie theater guy who was the criminal
01:37:53
in the first place. Anyway, if you get a chance, and I don't know how you would,
01:37:57
to see the movie Zodiac on the big screen. It is so, it's such a perfect movie. Yeah.
01:38:03
I haven't seen it in so long, but it's a great movie. It's so good. That's awesome.
01:38:07
Yeah, yeah. That was super fun. I have an update on my Roomba situation. Oh, yeah?
01:38:16
Do not get a Roomba if you have cats. Because cats like to barf everywhere. Oh. And the Roomba will just slide right over there.
01:38:27
that was the last Roomba I owned. And I'm devastated because I want one so bad. You loved that Roomba.
01:38:32
I did. I totally forgot that the cats and I would follow it around. It was fucking fascinating. We
01:38:36
were all just like, oh my God. You're so excited. And then suddenly the Roomba's like, wait, is this my job too? It's like the
01:38:44
Flintstones when like the garbage disposal is a sassy bird or whatever. Your Roomba's like, I'm not eating cat furf again.
01:38:52
Oh, you can't do it. It's just such a, it's just like a thing you know that you can't,
01:38:56
You can't knit and sew and have a Roomba if you have a cat, period. Everyone does that.
01:39:01
Those things are not your— Those options are not for you. No. Shut up Mimi Mimi says I still here in 2025 motherfuckers Mimi like guess what I am here to say goodbye
01:39:15
I mean, should we wrap it up? Is that Mimi's cue? Let's do it. Mimi's Immortal. Let's wrap it up.
01:39:20
If we were naming this today, this episode today, if it wasn't called Service Poodle,
01:39:25
perhaps we would call it. Well, I would name it Mimi's Immortal. I mean, that's a great title right there.
01:39:30
Yeah. So good. What about It's a Roomba? I mean, that's obviously, it's got to be that one.
01:39:37
Mimi's Immortal and It's Arumba are the front runners. Yeah, that was good. That was a good one.
01:39:43
That was fun times on that episode. Thanks for listening to Rewind, you guys. We appreciate it.
01:39:47
Yes. And we're going to let old us say goodbye to you so that Elvis can say goodbye.
01:39:53
And Mimi. And Mimi. Follow us on things. Stephen Ray Morris, the podcast. Thank you for being our guide through this fucking trippy.
01:40:09
And stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Bye. Elvis, you want a cookie? Mimi? Oh, I think that's the new one.
01:40:24
Elvis, you want a cookie? Oh, hi. But Mimi wants one too. Okay. I'm Anna Navarro, and on my new podcast, Bleep with Anna Navarro,
01:40:34
I talking to the people closest to the biggest issues happening in your community and around the world Because I know deep down inside right now we are all cursing and asking what the bleep is going on Every week I breaking down the biggest issues happening in our communities and
01:40:51
around the world. I'm talking to people like Julie K. Brown, who broke the explosive story
01:40:56
on Jeffrey Epstein in 2018. The Justice Department, through we counted four presidential administrations,
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failed these victims. Listen to Bleep with Adam Navarro on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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When a group of women discover they've all dated the same prolific con artist, they take matters into their own hands.
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I vowed I will be his last target. He is not going to get away with this. He's going to get what he deserves.
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We always say that, trust your girlfriends. Listen to The Girlfriends, Trust Me Babe,
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on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I've got you, I've got you.
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Before NXIVM, Nancy Solzman wanted to help people. Being able to help somebody, it's probably the biggest motivator of my entire life.
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She trained in something called neuro-linguistic programming. People loved our training.
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Then, everything changed. Yeah, and they called it a cult. How does a method designed to improve lives end up in a cult?
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A knife in the hands of a surgeon is an amazing tool. A knife in the hands of a murderer is a weapon.
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Listen to Mind Games on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.