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00:02:27
My favorite love Hello and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia. This is that Wednesday show where we recap our old episodes with all new commentary, updates, and insights.
00:02:51
So today we're recapping episode 58, which we named Some Quiet Sunday. This episode came out on March 2nd, 2017.
00:02:59
Let's get into it and listen to the intro. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. Hi, welcome to My Favorite Murder.
00:03:13
Hello. Welcome to My Favorite Murder. Hello. Hello. Hello. I gotta learn how to start this thing someday.
00:03:23
What was wrong with that? really creepy unnatural speaking voice it was too light it was kind of like when someone says
00:03:30
they'll scratch your back but then they just they kind of just lightly drag their hand across your
00:03:35
back no what is worse than that you know what's worse than that is when those blankets that when
00:03:40
your heel it's like your heels a little dry and it rubs like rubs across those like woolly blankets
00:03:45
or like gets caught on a cuticle. Like you're a fucking goat. Like, like you're so not,
00:03:53
you're so disgusting that like blankets are like- Here's how long it's been since you fucking taken care of yourself.
00:04:00
Hey, Miss Havisham, why don't you fucking soak these feet? Yeah, that. You know what's worse?
00:04:08
What? When a guy puts his head on your shoulder. What? Oh, why? Are you serious?
00:04:17
Don't you? Isn't that the grossest thing of all time? I don't understand that one.
00:04:21
I don't know. I just hate it. Wow. That was so amazing. I really thought you were going to be with me on that one.
00:04:27
I don't know. But I don't know. I don't get it. I don't know. It's like to be cute or something.
00:04:32
Where it's like, can you not be precious? Like a guy doing that is like. Because you also like a masculine dude who takes care of you.
00:04:41
And a guy who fucking puts his head on your stupid shoulder is like. I mean it's just a little like they might as well also kick their outside leg up when they kiss you
00:04:53
and like pull their skirt out a little bit what the hell I'm fine with that but you know it's
00:05:00
even grosser when you don't have a garbage disposal you have to take the food out of the
00:05:05
fucking the wet food out of the drain of the sink I don't know what you're talking about
00:05:10
how dare you that's how it feels to be abandoned no it just made me like wait did you have to do
00:05:17
that by hand and then throw it in the garbage yes and it makes me sick to my stomach how old
00:05:21
is the food days weeks no it's just like you just did the dishes okay but you don't food from your
00:05:28
mouth you're not a soaker though because i'll go ahead and i'll soak some dishes for a good two
00:05:33
weeks do you ever do that where you're like i'm cleaning them by letting them sit in the sink with
00:05:38
soapy water in them. Yeah. I'll put some, I'll put some cold water in a bowl of like yogurt
00:05:43
or like cereal. And it's like, it's still going to get stuck to the bowl every time. Yes. Like,
00:05:52
like the thing that we yell in my house is put water in it It like nobody nobody knows We live in that house I lived there for 16 years and the dishwasher the dishwasher never worked a single day that i live there where in the not the other apartment
00:06:06
in the house i grew up in oh yeah yeah yeah so you always had to do everything by hand yeah
00:06:10
and so when people would almost willfully ignorantly leave a bowl of uh cereal in the
00:06:17
sink yeah knowing full well it was just going to then be cemented onto the side of that right
00:06:21
and you'd get yelled at and have to do it yeah and then you'd have to take your fucking hand
00:06:26
and take all the wet food out wait you have a garbage disposal now don't you now i do yeah
00:06:32
like that's yeah now i do now you must run that thing all day long love it just for no reason on
00:06:37
all day just creating kind of a nice white noise in the background so comforting you know what i
00:06:44
hate tell me is when you're like taking a shower and you're just like oh it's so great to get clean
00:06:48
then you look down there's like straight up black mold in your shower or something like
00:06:52
where you you the thing of like you don't notice how filthy you are until you look at one thing
00:06:58
and then you're like oh my god yeah that's not like grout that's not black grout the grout is
00:07:03
white if someone else saw this who is a clean person yes well right now in my shower i hope
00:07:09
you didn't see that when you just peed is that um like there's leg shavings everywhere because i
00:07:15
Just now, like this is the first time I've had a white shower. Yep. Because our last one was like gray and pink, like vintage gray and pink.
00:07:22
Sure. And you can't see that shit on gray. No. But now it's all white. Now you have to look at your own body.
00:07:30
Leg shavings. Offerings. I wonder if Vince notices this too. I mean, he must be into it.
00:07:38
My sister, when she came down, because she is a super clean type A type person and I am not.
00:07:44
my sister got crazy bummed because the i have that um the drain in my bathtub where your hair
00:07:50
gets caught in it it gets caught there's no like secondary screen i'd be able to find because it's
00:07:57
just there isn't one yeah so it's always backing up and my sister was so bummed at the amount of
00:08:03
water because it was like no i got it yeah and then i was just like oh you're right that is gross
00:08:09
but i've never noticed it's just how it is like standing water standing i don't like that either
00:08:14
while you're then it is gross it's gross and then the the leg shavings are like getting attached to
00:08:20
your ankles that's right and also they stay when the rest of it drains because it drains so slow
00:08:25
yeah then it it creates its own kind of like it looks like um a map it like a topological map
00:08:32
of a river basin look at you look at yourself look at you can i bring this back around sure
00:08:37
however it does make your feet nice and soft when they're soaking in the water there it sure does and
00:08:43
then they won't rub on a blanket and make you feel like shit about your life. Anyways, that's been my favorite murder.
00:08:52
Can you imagine someone who's listening for the first time? They're like, what the fuck?
00:08:55
They're just like, I saw this. I came in here for decapitated heads. This was on a murder list and it certainly is no murder.
00:09:06
This is my favorite murder. Really quick. One time my dad said to me, he came down to visit me.
00:09:11
and then my like the thing broke in my toilet and he had to go in and fix the stopper whatever it is
00:09:18
oh i hate that and while we were standing in there he goes hey why don't you spend some quiet
00:09:23
sunday cleaning behind this toilet and the level of total disgust that he said it with i think of
00:09:32
it every time i'm in the bathroom that is an extra level of con of being condescending he
00:09:38
couldn't just say hey you should clean the back of your toilet oh no it always has to be like a
00:09:41
one-man show in our family take a why don't you take a quiet spend some quiet sunday wow
00:09:47
cleaning behind this toilet i don't know dad because i'm busy going to therapy to get over
00:09:51
you or maybe because i just party yeah i'm because i have a fucking life i like love i love to be
00:09:59
outside where the toilet isn't yeah because i have friends i don't like the toilet as much as you do
00:10:04
dad what am i saying now because it's not because you know what's important to me dad living my life
00:10:08
living my life and if that means having a filthy toilet so be it so be it you know whose problem
00:10:14
that isn't mine mine welcome to my favorite murder it's a murder podcast for murder murder
00:10:23
aficionados only murder people run to murder so much murder and that's it crime god that we're
00:10:29
all about it justice oh that's us totally america america uh that's karen kilgareth that's georgia
00:10:37
hardstark hi we're here to host this show and sometimes we talk about uh personal stuff we do
00:10:45
totally i don't know if you was that even personal that was just like i don't know every day um i met
00:10:51
a guy today who works in a morgue he's gonna work in a morgue and is going to morgue person school
00:10:57
yes where we went to lunch today and i got so excited i had this incredible therapy appointment
00:11:03
that like made life sunnier then i go to this to the restaurant that we're gonna meet at it's
00:11:09
jones on third and it's not like we go there every day it doesn't great everybody goes there it's a
00:11:12
great place to eat in studio city well the guy is ringing me up for my coffee was like how's your
00:11:17
day going and i'm like good thanks how's yours and he's like great i had a job interview i'm like
00:11:21
oh jesus fucking guy's talking to me now i'm like oh you're like being polite oh what was it for
00:11:26
and then he was like, oh, at the LA County morgue. And I was like, what? What the fuck?
00:11:32
Do you think he knew? No. Oh, I love that so much. He just told, like, he didn't know how I would react.
00:11:40
And of course I grabbed him by the arm. Did you really? Yes. Across the counter.
00:11:44
Oh my God. Tell me everything. And he was like, oh, you know, blah, blah, blah. I'm going to school to be a mortuary,
00:11:52
a mortician, something like that. Exactly like that I was like that amazing You in the right LA is gonna be incredible And and he like I know the murder well I said I said this is LA is going to be a great place to do that he
00:12:06
said I know the murder count just keeps going up that's right she said that and then I turn around
00:12:12
and this girl came up to me and was like hi I really like the podcast this is weird my grandfather
00:12:18
is a serial killer no literally moments later okay that's when I walked in yeah okay so I have
00:12:24
the bad habit of my sunglasses are also prescription. So when I come in from outside
00:12:29
and my sunglasses are always on my head, which means I can't see. I always forget that you can't
00:12:33
see anything. Yeah. I can't see. Well, like I can't see past like a couple feet in front of me.
00:12:37
So like, and it helps me because walking into a place like that Jones on third is very like
00:12:42
CNBC type of place. And I always get real insecure, whatever. So I'm like, Oh good. Better
00:12:49
that I don't have my glasses on except for reading menus and seeing where Georgia sitting and all the
00:12:54
things that actually involve meeting someone. I saw you, but I was in the middle of this
00:12:57
discussion with this girl, Anna. But also I didn't realize, like, I wouldn't, I thought you'd be
00:13:03
sitting by yourself. So when I, when I, when this kind of one blurry figure waved an arm,
00:13:08
I was like, what the hell's going on that I have to go over here now? And I walk up and Georgia is
00:13:13
in full on, like, kind of don't interrupt us conversation. No, what I was saying is don't
00:13:19
tell Karen, don't tell Karen, don't tell Karen. When she walks over, don't tell Karen. Yeah.
00:13:23
So wait, you're going to tell me right now? Yeah. He was a fucking serial killer.
00:13:26
He's in prison. He was like the sheriff in Bakersfield and he was killing sex workers.
00:13:30
No. She didn't know till she was older. And then she saw an episode of like forensic files and was like, that's my grandfather.
00:13:37
Like she always knew he was in prison, but didn't know what the deal was. Hold on.
00:13:42
I know. Was that in like the eighties or nineties? She was like 11, I guess. And she looked in her early twenties.
00:13:47
Yeah. She was pretty young. Yeah. That is so intense. I know. So I was like, this is Anna.
00:13:52
Bye. Bye, Anna. I can't keep a secret. I'm like not good at that. So I didn't want to be like,
00:13:59
that's so good. Her name is nice goats on Twitter. Nice goats. His name is David Keith Rogers.
00:14:08
He's and her, she said her grandmother wrote him a letter every single day, called him every Sunday. Despite the fact that he was a serial killer.
00:14:18
Denial. Denial. That's some serious denial. She's like, that's not the man I married.
00:14:23
No Well talk about living a double life He's the sheriff And he's That is a nightmare
00:14:30
Awful That's like That's a true detective Yeah Season All of them Never Because it'll never
00:14:39
It's never gonna happen Can I say one other thing Yes That I love Yes I'm listening to another new podcast
00:14:47
That I finished within a couple days As I do Called In the Dark The Jacob Wetterling one
00:14:52
Oh no I haven't heard it. Well, I didn't. I was like, Jacob Wetterling, everyone knows what happened with him.
00:14:57
He's a kid who got kidnapped, you know, in Minnesota in the 80s, whatever. And so I was like, I'll just listen to an episode.
00:15:02
It is fucking enthralling. It is one of the best fucking investigative journalist dick podcast-y things I've ever
00:15:10
listened to. I got to listen to it. It's incredible. And it's not about Jacob Wetterling.
00:15:14
It's about everything that went wrong in, it's like, it is a fucking hard look at law
00:15:20
enforcement wow and how they mishandled the entire fucking case and how it fueled stranger danger
00:15:26
and the sex offender registries and is that the right thing to do and like it's and then they just
00:15:32
solved the case like the a week before they were going to put the podcast out whoa so they like
00:15:37
tie all this shit into it wow oh i gotta listen to that madeline baron is the host i love that
00:15:43
it's all these fucking badass women who are hosting these incredible investigative journalism
00:15:48
pieces. In the dark it's called? In the dark. In the dark. Ugh, fucking. I could not stop listening to it.
00:15:54
Oh, I love that. I actually just thought of this too because I just watched of, if you're not watching
00:16:02
Vanity Fair Confidential, which is a series on a place? What? Which part do you not know? I'm just trying to think of where it is. But it might be
00:16:12
Investigation Discovery or something. It doesn't matter. You can just put it in.
00:16:15
but it's, they have, they basically go over stories that have been in Vanity Fair, which
00:16:21
is a magazine that's existed for like 70 plus years, maybe longer. It does great art, great investigative journalism.
00:16:29
Yeah. And the one that I watched yesterday was about this couple, which was basically about satanic
00:16:35
panic and that weird thing that happened in the eighties where all of a sudden it was
00:16:39
like at the McMartin preschool case. And then there was this other one that happened to these people in Austin, Texas, and they just got out of jail and they still haven't been exonerated.
00:16:51
Are you fucking kidding me? They were just released of like, it's basically what you were just talking about where back then when they knew nothing about how leading, how much you could screw up an interview with a four-year-old or a three-year-old, how easy it is to get that child to say exactly what you want them to say.
00:17:08
Totally. And that's how all those things exploded. that's why it happened all at the same time.
00:17:14
That's amazing. That shit, that is what fucking happens in this podcast. And it is incredible how it's so terrifying.
00:17:21
Like I have to listen to a positive book now because I'm so fucked up over it. Yeah.
00:17:26
Oh, I gotta listen to that. And Vanity Fair Confidential, what's cool is that they take those articles
00:17:30
and they interview, like the main narrator interviewer guy is the person who wrote that article.
00:17:36
Yes. I love that. And then the police that were there and the other family members and stuff.
00:17:42
They've been, the last couple that I've watched have been so good. It's just like,
00:17:46
it's a really well done series. I haven't watched it in a while. I'm going to check it out.
00:17:49
Yeah, it's good. Cool. Also did you see the thing Someone tweeted at us or it was somewhere like I think it was on our Facebook about the windshield wiper shirt trick Yes Do you think that true Probably
00:18:05
I mean, it could have like its sources in some once true thing, but I like the idea that people spread that around.
00:18:13
Me too. Because I think it's that thing of just like eyes open. Eyes open and don't like.
00:18:18
So basically what it was is there is a picture. I think it was either on Instagram or Twitter or whatever
00:18:23
but it's like a girl there's a shirt wrapped around her windshield wiper and then when she gets out to take it off
00:18:30
there's people there that are like to grab her because she's out of her car right they get you get in your car at night
00:18:36
you're being very careful in this built in the structure and then oh shit there's something on my windshield
00:18:40
I better get out and take it off yeah and then that's like that's when your guard is down
00:18:45
yes so it's just the idea and that thing spread like wildfire I saw that in a couple different places
00:18:51
Yeah I was like this sounds This sounds like you know And his hook was in the back of was in the car
00:18:57
Or whatever the back door But it is yeah it is a good Kind of reminder to pay attention
00:19:04
Yes it only takes one Thing like that and also you have to think If you're Like you should think of your car
00:19:12
As like the safe zone So like once you're in there and you've locked that door You're good to go so if you can drive
00:19:18
with a shirt on your windshield wiper. Get the fuck out of there. And that's what the girl said she did
00:19:21
is she fucking knew something was wrong. She saw a car idling, supposedly, you know,
00:19:25
and then so she fucking drove away. And when she was alone and safe, she fucking got out and pulled the thing off.
00:19:30
She's like, it didn't make sense that it was wrapped around my windshield. Right.
00:19:35
Yeah, it doesn't. Because it's not like, oh, it dropped from, you know, it blew onto my windshield or whatever.
00:19:40
If it's wrapped, she was basically taking her context clues and going, this is a red flag situation.
00:19:46
Betcha this fictitious character is a murderino. Bet she is. Yeah. What else? I mean.
00:20:00
Do we have anything to report back from? And I would just say this, because we haven't recorded since our tour, right?
00:20:07
Right. Last episode was our, where were we? Our Oakland show. the last episode we we put on this podcast was the Oakland show this podcast this one right now
00:20:19
yeah was live Oakland yeah um after live Oakland we met a bunch of great people and the first person we met was a girl who made us some amazing stuff I don't have her card
00:20:32
or anything but did you see in that bag I'm not sure if you went through it so I got a tote bag that said my dogs are fiercely private oh and she got me a bag that had a fucking
00:20:42
adorable Siamese cat on it. Yes. That I'm totally using all the time now. Yep. And also, um, I think
00:20:49
handmade, I don't know if she bought them or she designed them herself. Um, but I feel like she
00:20:55
made them the barb notebook. Did you get a barb notebook? Yes. Yes. I think that's her drawing.
00:20:59
That is amazing. Um, so we just want, we had a fun conversation with you. She was very excited
00:21:06
and we just wanted to say it was just as fun for us to meet you as it was for you to meet us
00:21:14
because she was very sweet and very excited. Everyone's been, we're so lucky. Yes, we get lots of nice presents and it's funny.
00:21:22
And also in Oakland, most of my family was there. My cousin Stevie, who's basically like my older brother,
00:21:29
who beat me up my whole childhood and then became our super cool friend and now is basically like my sister and my sister's family and his family like do everything
00:21:41
together and it's really awesome because that's the way we all grew up together it's like the
00:21:44
next generation um i heard the rumor that he was crying during our show because he was so proud
00:21:51
and like blown away like basically all of my family was like oh we had no idea that this is
00:21:57
what you were doing that's amazing yeah so it was super fun well marty fucking hardstark is
00:22:02
going to be at our beacon our new york beacon show this fucking weekend and i have no idea how
00:22:07
he's going to react please new york help us impress marty hartstark he needs to understand
00:22:12
that his his daughter has done a good job you'll know him by the fact that he's the only
00:22:16
grown man alone there that's not true we're in seattle remember the guy that made us the
00:22:22
macarons oh yeah he like had taken steven he had taken a cooking class he had made macarons that
00:22:29
had they were pink with red blood's batter on them put them in a tupperware and brought them
00:22:34
to the show yeah and we knew they weren't poisonous because a girl in line behind us
00:22:38
him had eaten them and she was like they were great and i'm like how do you feel are you feeling
00:22:43
okay yeah i'm fine but you're like our tester i love macarons um and i got ted bundy cookies
00:22:48
oh my god oh shit wow i just said the wrong word jesus did you see that elvis just came out of his
00:22:56
little cat house okay because i said the word the cookie he's gonna have to get one early he is a
00:23:05
monster he's he we've made a monster um sod house bakery in seattle are the ones that made us i
00:23:13
tweeted those yeah they're on our instagram my favorite murder instagram unbelievable ted bundy
00:23:17
and i would just like to make point out the fact that um it turns into a thing where it looks like
00:23:22
oh, we love Ted Bundy. In no way. It's like, it's the story we're telling. And it's-
00:23:28
Oh, I never thought that. I'm not saying it to you. I'm just saying in general. Okay.
00:23:32
When on the podcast, people are like, it sounds like we're cheering. It's not about Ted Bundy.
00:23:36
It's the fascination of the story. And yeah, and the crime. And the fact that that exists.
00:23:43
And the icing. And the fucking, that was an amazing cookie. It was like a brown sugar cookie.
00:23:49
It was crazy. It was really good. Beautiful art. And the shape of Washington. Washington, probably, because we're in Seattle.
00:23:57
It was in shape of Washington. best people. We are the, can I talk about how I took a bite out of it to, to take a photo and
00:24:06
like, like it seemed obvious that it was a cookie. And then I said, uh, look, I took a bite out of
00:24:12
crime. And then I fucking laughed my ass off at my own fucking stupid joke. God, it gets lonely
00:24:18
in that dressing room. It's quiet. We don't have groupies. And we, that's the place where I put on
00:24:26
a record and it was a some lame 80 not lame there was some good songs on it but that was an 80s
00:24:32
compilation and a stick song came on and it was dead silent me and georgia like looking down at our
00:24:37
murders or whatever like getting ready and then she goes oh my god what is this she's not even a
00:24:43
good singer and i'm still laughing about that very enjoyable i didn't know six um you look like it's
00:24:49
your turn to go first is it i don't know you were you looked like you were ready and i was like oh
00:24:53
She knows Well then I'm Interpreting from that You would like me to go Oh I don't care
00:24:57
I don't want to fuck it up I bet Stephen knows Well we fucked it up Going live Oh
00:25:03
Stephen do you know? No Did you see him Pick up his finger Like he was trying to
00:25:11
Shush us He was No I think he was thinking I was like trying to remember And I was just like
00:25:15
Shush And you brought the microphone Up so perfectly Like I'm about to tell you Well I also was like
00:25:20
Does it count from The Oakland episode Or do you count the other live episodes in terms of who goes first.
00:25:25
Oh, no, then it's me because... I think Oakland. Oakland. So it is me. Okay. All right.
00:25:30
Whatever. Okay, we're back. And we have the reason why we named the episode Some Quiet Sunday.
00:25:38
And it's just classic home gym. I have to say, he's vicious. He's a vicious, vicious man in many ways.
00:25:46
That's a cutting remark. Why don't you spend some quiet Sunday cleaning behind your toilet?
00:25:52
I mean, look, we were all in the bathroom together and it was filthy. It was gross.
00:25:59
And he's basically just saying, have some goddamn self-respect. Yeah, but the way he's saying it is like, you have the time and you still live like this.
00:26:07
It's not like you are the busiest person. You know, it's like, it's an accusation while it's a suggestion.
00:26:14
It's a, yeah. It's like both. It's the patriarchy in action. I'm fucking sick of it.
00:26:18
Yeah. Yeah. I'll use your toothbrush, dad. How about that? But it's also the kind of thing where like I was raised with a level, that level of sarcasm.
00:26:26
You know, people love to say like, I'm fluent in sarcasm in their bios or whatever.
00:26:30
And it's like I was raised with such a vicious level of sarcasm where it's like he would have said something like that when I was seven years old.
00:26:37
That's just the interaction level of home gym and his family. There's a good grindness.
00:26:43
Yeah. And also kind of like, hey, the bathroom isn't the cleanest, but behind this toilet is a nightmare.
00:26:50
Right. How about you get your life together, seven-year-old Karen, and fucking do something about it?
00:26:55
And it's interesting because it is seven-year-old Karen that is holding back 55-year-old Karen.
00:26:59
That's true. It's so ironic that way. They're the same person. It's so annoying.
00:27:05
That thinking takes over. Because it's who you are still. All right. Let's get into it.
00:27:10
I know. Deep down. Oh, we talked a little bit about the windshield wiper trick, which is basically when this,
00:27:16
like the human trafficking panic began online on social media. I just think that's kind of an
00:27:24
interesting thing to look back on where it's like, yeah, remember that where it's like,
00:27:28
if you have this on your windshield wiper, but then it's like, there's tons of other examples
00:27:32
that over the years we've all seen and reacted to. And then it's like, after a while, it's like,
00:27:37
it's a bigger problem. If only they gave you that signal. Well, also, but notes or flowers, I've heard too. Have you?
00:27:44
But notes and flowers in your windshield get you to stop, get out of, especially flowers, get out of your car, you know, stand in a vulnerable place.
00:27:53
It does make sense to not do that. Right. I mean, don't do it anyway. Don't accept flowers even if someone's just handing them to you kindly.
00:28:01
Slap them out of their hand. If they want you to listen to their DJ mixtape, don't do it.
00:28:06
No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Don't buy or borrow their DJ mixtape. Yeah, that is abuse.
00:28:12
All right, let's get straight into it, shall we? Sure. You're first. Let's listen to Karen's story about the Erickson twins.
00:28:19
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10. calories per serving. Data accurate as of 2-20-26. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know
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Default terms at mintmobile.com. Well, this is, now I'm afraid because I'm 99% positive you haven't done this murder.
00:31:37
But truly, as I was printing it up and leaving my house, I was like, it's so familiar.
00:31:43
And I know that I've done research on it before thinking I would do it before. well i've had to think about looking up murders before being like have i done it before not just
00:31:53
you okay so i think so you won't be mad if this is a repeat only if you do it better than i did
00:32:01
well i'm pretty sure you didn't but i know we've talked about it okay i'm excited and the reason
00:32:07
that i wanted to do it is because i mentioned it the last last just picked the biggest Wendy
00:32:13
sorry like in your face no problem okay the last uh i think the last studio recording that we did
00:32:21
when i talked about the pep sisters the french studio i was in my apartment yes this this
00:32:27
podcasting studio um so it's another case of falia do which is the shared psychosis
00:32:35
and it's the story of ursula and sabina erickson i have not done it we've talked about it yes
00:32:40
sucking and excited about this. Okay. Good. All right. What a huge goddamn release. Because I was
00:32:46
truly like, I was like, I'm printing it. I don't, this is what I've done. Like, I can't go back from
00:32:52
here. That's like my trigger. And then I'm like, this is over. I can't believe you don't remember.
00:32:58
I was, I cried that episode. Yeah. It meant a lot to me too. Anyway. All right Okay
00:33:07
So In that Sorry if you didn't hear that episode So a folie a deux is In French it translates as the madness of two
00:33:20
And it's a form of shared psychosis Between two people who are extremely close The Papin sisters were an older and younger sister
00:33:30
It is rumored that they were having a sexual relationship, but they did work for a rumor to be very strict mistress who they killed so violently that it beats most of the crimes we talk about modern day.
00:33:47
It really it doesn't it doesn't fit with what. You know what I mean? I'm not matching the punishment and all this.
00:33:56
Yes. It's such extreme overkill that it's not so bizarre. Totally. So this is a little bit different,
00:34:04
but this I feel like is the much more famous version of this shared psychosis. And it is Ursula and Sabina Erikson.
00:34:13
So in May of 2008, two Swedish sisters who live in Ireland, who are in their late thirties,
00:34:21
named Ursula and Sabina Erikson, um sorry twin sisters that should be in there they are twin sisters and they live in county
00:34:30
cork and they've traveled to they're they're they're traveling to london um but they've taken
00:34:37
um they're in liverpool when this all goes down uh taking the bus into london or they're right
00:34:44
outside liverpool i guess um so when they first arrive in liverpool or wherever they are nearby it
00:34:53
The first thing they do is they walk into the St. Anne Street police station and quote unquote report concerns about Sabine's children.
00:35:01
So from the get go of their like trip to London, there's shit going on. They immediately go and start talking to the police.
00:35:12
Nothing comes of it. Then they get on this bus, the National Express coach into London.
00:35:18
um after a little while on the bus they tell the driver they don't feel well he pulls over to the
00:35:26
roadside services um and they get off the bus when they try to get back on the bus they are
00:35:33
clutching these bags that they have with them in a way that makes the driver suspicious so he says
00:35:39
we need to look in your bags before you get back on the bus and they're like no fucking way and
00:35:44
they're so weird about not letting anybody look into their bags that the bus driver kicks them
00:35:50
off the bus and leaves them there fucking hero oh wait that kind of shitty don leave women on the side of the road well but but i mean like so the second I hear this I like what is in those bags Totally I need to know what in those bags immediately
00:36:05
Yes. I'm imagining lots. Right. So, so the gas station manager where they have stopped at these,
00:36:18
what they call services in England, is informed by this bus driver. These two are acting weird and shady,
00:36:25
and so I'm not letting them back on the bus. So that gas station manager calls the police.
00:36:30
They come and talk to Ursula and Sabine, decide they're harmless, and leave. So now Ursula and Sabine are stranded by the M6,
00:36:40
which is a freeway in England, and not the TV show MI6, which I thought I was thinking of
00:36:47
the whole time I first started researching this. Have you ever watched MI6? Nope.
00:36:56
With Matthew McFadden, who is Mr. Darcy, Richard Armit. Anyway. None of it. I'm sorry.
00:37:01
Good stuff. Good stuff. Good British procedural. Good talk. But there's an M6 and then there's an MI6.
00:37:07
They're not the same thing, Karen. Okay. So they're stranded. And the next thing that they know is that there's CCTV footage of them walking down the central part of the freeway.
00:37:26
Like the... So they have run across... The center median. Yes. They've run across the freeway.
00:37:32
So you can see... Here's the insane part of all this. There is video footage of this entire incident.
00:37:41
I don't like, I've seen it and it's like, whenever there's CCTV footage, I'm like, don't want to watch this. Something awful is going to happen.
00:37:48
Yes. That's bad too. But there was also basically a British version of cops, which was called motorway.
00:37:57
No. Yes. Is it motorway cops? Oh, fuck no. Which was a reality show that they were filming when this happened. So the entire thing is caught on an ENG crew footage.
00:38:09
Oh shit. Yes. Like a TV show. That's why there's so much Like you can see all of it
00:38:14
It's super crazy Yeah because did they sign waivers Totally There must be because they broke the law
00:38:21
They must not have to or something So basically here's what Or maybe they have different rules there
00:38:27
Of production Here's what happened They're in the central median And they run to cross it again
00:38:38
Don't cross the fucking freeway Ursula gets across, but Sabina gets hit by a car.
00:38:43
Oh, my God. So they call the highway agency traffic officers, which I imagine is like the highway patrol.
00:38:51
Sure. But I don't know, and I didn't look it up. I wrote this horrible thing. So when highway agency traffic officers,
00:39:02
what I can only imagine are the British highway patrol, so British chips, which in America are crisps,
00:39:07
but in England are French fries, um that's i love where you went with that that was unexpected so dumb so like fish and chips
00:39:17
what if like fish and what if there was like a cop show that the cops were british and there's a guy
00:39:23
named like andy fish and so it's like fish and chips can someone please make a fucking we'll be
00:39:29
the chips so karen and i is a british detective that's come to los angeles and then he needs the
00:39:35
help of two girl podcasters chips where the chips though oh because we're british cops we are well
00:39:43
because we have oh no no we're chips we're highway patrol yeah we're highway patrol right um all
00:39:50
right oh what fish could be the band fish fish the band fish fish and chips leads cops like they're
00:39:58
undercover narcs yes and they go to their shows they narc on people at their own shows they're
00:40:04
pot cops. Yeah. Guys, here's the thing. Oh my God. So the basically the British highway patrol shows
00:40:15
up with this British reality show called motorway cops. Fuck you. They're already recording it.
00:40:21
That's so shitty. No, no, no. They didn't know what the scenario was. They showed up on the scene
00:40:25
like, well, this is a day in the life of these cops. Okay. Yeah. It's like that. Okay. So,
00:40:29
uh so uh as they so the two twin women are standing on the side of the road talking to
00:40:41
these cops and the the guys that were that with their first on the scene first are explaining
00:40:46
to the british police who showed up with the camera crew they're like okay so here's what
00:40:51
happened i guess they ran across the freeway we don't really know what they're doing one of them
00:40:56
got hit, but she's okay. And blah, blah, blah. And they're explaining everything. And the two
00:41:01
women are standing there while the cops are talking to each other. And then as the camera's
00:41:07
rolling, Ursula bolts out into the freeway and immediately gets hit by a truck. And it is on,
00:41:19
the truck is going 56 miles an hour uh it's on camera you can it doesn't there's somebody that's
00:41:28
kind of blocking it so you don't see like the the real awful part but um and to make it clear
00:41:34
she's not running trying to cross she's running to get hit by a car well there's no um it's just
00:41:41
like that fucked up part in bow finger where eddie murphy has to run across the freeway for the like
00:41:46
special effect do you remember that you don't well here's the thing it's not like frogger words
00:41:53
like one coming every couple of seconds it like running into onto the five right now like there there no pause in the traffic No Right So she ran out onto a busy freeway intentionally and she does it
00:42:09
And everybody's like, it's really upsetting. Cause it's all the cops going like, well,
00:42:13
Oh my God. Or whatever. And they're immediately on their things, calling for an ambulance doing
00:42:17
this. And while they're doing that, and one of them runs out to stop traffic, whatever,
00:42:23
while they do that then sabine runs out into the freeway fuck dude because they're so it's the
00:42:30
craziest thing to see because nobody of course once the one goes they're not nobody goes oh
00:42:37
make sure the other one doesn't go they all go holy shit call call an ambulance you would never
00:42:41
yeah who would do that so ursula's legs so sabine runs out into freeway and immediately gets hit by
00:42:49
a Volkswagen Polo, which we don't have. Those poor people driving those fucking cars.
00:42:53
Yes. You've ruined their life. I mean, I'm sure. The lorry driver, the truck driver that hit Ursula is on this.
00:43:01
You can see the video footage and it's the saddest thing because he just keeps going,
00:43:05
she just thrown out in front of us. That's not the accent, but it's something like that
00:43:09
where he says us instead of me. It's rough. And he's just like kind of staring off
00:43:14
like in total shock. Oh my God. But here's the thing. so Ursula's legs she has compound fractures in her legs the cop I saw special on it it's called
00:43:25
like madness on the motorway or something like that was really good but it's not as good as
00:43:30
fish and chips it's it is no fish and chips oh never never um she is down and this is so upsetting
00:43:38
because her she's bones are sticking out of her legs no no no no yeah yeah you're not gonna get
00:43:45
hit by a truck on the freeway and have it not be really gross and upsetting. But meanwhile,
00:43:53
she's down, right? So the bottom half of her body is not moving and it's fucked up badly.
00:43:59
But the top half of her, they go and they put one of those tinfoil marathon blankets on her
00:44:04
and they're like trying to talk to her. It's basically like the ambulance is going to be
00:44:07
here. You're okay. And she starts going, I know who you are. I know who you are. And they're like,
00:44:14
just take it easy it's okay um she says uh i recognize you i know you're not real oh my god
00:44:23
and the and the police are just saying it's okay stay down she's tries she's trying to get up so it
00:44:29
looks like a really hideous part of like walking dead where like the zombies been like attacked
00:44:34
from the back but they're still dragging themselves like she's trying to push herself up but her legs
00:44:40
aren't going to move and she's trying to like fight him she's spitting at him how scary yeah
00:44:46
she's freaking out so um her sister is so that's ursula sabina is also on the ground and she looks
00:44:56
like she's out out and there it's there's a female cop next to her and i think the second
00:45:02
person is a woman who was maybe a passerby in a car i'm not sure but they're both sitting there
00:45:09
And they're like, she's got one of those tinfoil blankets on her. And she, and, and Sabine is just
00:45:15
eyes closed out. And then she comes to, and she like, almost like immediately gets up and they're
00:45:22
like, no, no, no, don't move. Don't move. And she's clearly like dazed, but she starts saying
00:45:27
they're going to steal your organs. She's yelling that over to Ursula. Holy balls.
00:45:31
They're going to steal your organs. And, and she, and then she, they're like, no, no, no,
00:45:36
stay down and they're trying to hold her down and she starts yelling help call the police and they're
00:45:40
like we are the police it's okay and they're and so then they're thinking they're on drugs they must
00:45:46
be on some kind of drug because now sabine is up on her feet and she's trying to like she's like
00:45:53
like trying to get away and they're like you need to calm down it's okay she fucking jumps the rail
00:46:01
and runs into the other on the other side of the freeway are you fucking kidding me swear to god
00:46:08
they thank god that wasn't as busy on that side and i think they may have stopped traffic like
00:46:13
traffic was totally stopped on this side right where ursula was laying lucky lose slowing down
00:46:18
and shit probably and like maybe less traffic i'm not sure but anyway she runs across this cop has
00:46:24
to run after her and he's like stop what are you doing don't you know you're hurt you're hurt
00:46:28
And she's like And she basically turns Turns on him Like she's gonna fist fight him
00:46:33
Oh my god And she's like And she's screaming Help call the police And they're like
00:46:37
We are the police Like it's crazy So they So basically It eventually takes Six policemen
00:46:44
Holy To subdue Sabine Oh my god Six policemen To finally get her down And sedate
00:46:50
Like they shoot her up They meanwhile Airlift Ursula out To the hospital Mm-hmm She was spitting
00:46:58
at them the whole like they were fighting the entire time and the cops that subdued sabine
00:47:04
said that she had superhuman strength that both of them did so they're thinking they're on probably
00:47:09
on pcb or something like you know the the drugs associated with that were taught as a kid are like
00:47:14
yeah yeah you could like lift a car or do whatever you want totally um which i just the idea of
00:47:24
whatever world that they were in where they thought what was what was happening because
00:47:30
they still don't know to this day the logic behind and there's no explanation wait i hope i was hoping
00:47:37
you'd get to the explanation well i'm just gonna spoiler alert for you right now no they've never
00:47:42
explained it in court when she finally went to court all she would say is no comment they have
00:47:47
I never explained any of it. And there was no drugs in their system. So, okay. She gets, they finally,
00:47:56
the six people get her down, sedate her. She goes to the hospital and then goes directly into police custody in a place called Stoke-on-Trent.
00:48:07
So on May 19th, 2008, she is released from court. Sabina is released from court without a full psychiatric evaluation.
00:48:17
Oh, great. Having pleaded guilty to trespass on the motorway and hitting a police officer, which she decked that female police officer.
00:48:24
She punched her right in the face to get away from her. um that's before she ran across for the third fucking time so the court sentenced her to one
00:48:34
day in custody which um she'd already served um so she leaves and she begins to wander the streets
00:48:41
of stoke on kent um trying to find her sister in the hospital and carrying her possessions in a
00:48:48
clear plastic bag so she's just kind of now out on the street let her go yeah so
00:48:54
she's that night, two local guys who are walking a dog, see her and there, she comes up and is very
00:49:03
friendly. She's petting the dog. They're all talking. One of the men is, um, a 54 year old
00:49:09
man named Glenn Hollingshead, who is a self-employed welder. He was, uh, had been a
00:49:14
paramedic and he was a former RAF worker. Um, the other man was his friend, Peter Malloy.
00:49:21
and um so they all start talking and even though she's friendly sabina's acting super weird so she
00:49:28
does stuff like offers um she's asking them if they know any the directions for any good bed and
00:49:34
breakfasts um or any place to stay um uh she offers them cigarettes and then takes them back
00:49:41
while they're smoking them like she's so he so this guy glenn hollingshead can tell there's
00:49:47
something wrong with her. This is the part I, this is the part that I'm like, did we do this one?
00:49:52
Did we? Stephen? Well, this is the murder part. Yeah. So we must've talked about this. I'm sure
00:50:01
we've talked about it, but I don't know. I don't think we have. I'd be a bummer. Well,
00:50:05
who cares? You're doing a great job. Well, thanks. Thank you. I appreciate it. So
00:50:09
she, they go back to his house. Cause he, he's like, something's wrong with this lady and she's
00:50:14
just wandering out on the street. So they go back to his house and she's basically saying,
00:50:19
I need to find my sister. She's in a hospital. So they start, I think they said she, they hang
00:50:26
out that night. She was carrying multiple mobile phones and a laptop. She was constantly looking
00:50:31
out the window. She was super paranoid. And Malloy assumed, the friend assumes that she's
00:50:38
run away from an abusive partner, the way she's acting. So they're like, you can stay here.
00:50:43
And she's probably all bandaged up and shit Right after being released I don't but I don't think when she was up
00:50:50
And like basically trying to duke it out with this cop She looked fine Having been hit by a car two times
00:50:56
She seemed fine And didn't break any bones apparently Because she wasn't like held at the hospital
00:51:03
So okay so anyway When the friend leaves He leaves at Shortly before midnight and Sabina stays at the house.
00:51:13
So the next morning, Hollingshead is calling local hospitals to find Ursula to see where she is.
00:51:21
And at, let's see, this would be 7.40 in the morning, he goes outside to ask his neighbor for tea bags.
00:51:31
And the neighbor says, let me finish up what I'm doing and I'll come and bring him over.
00:51:37
And so Glenn walks back into the house. Oh, because he's washing his The neighbor's washing his car
00:51:43
So he's like, when I finish, I'll bring him over And then a minute after going inside
00:51:48
He staggers back outside the house And saying to the neighbor She stabbed me And then collapses on the ground
00:51:55
And when he'd gone back into the house Sabina had stabbed him five times with a kitchen knife
00:52:00
And he died from his injuries there And she ran And the neighbor calls 999 Which is 911 in England
00:52:06
Not that I had to tell you that Does this seem familiar? No, I don't think we've done this one
00:52:14
Okay Because it seems familiar to me But I know I've watched a full movie about this on YouTube
00:52:20
You can, and we all can if you want to after this So essentially She goes out of this house with a hammer in her hand
00:52:31
And is hitting herself in the head with the hammer No! Uh-huh So every once in a while
00:52:39
Periodically it says From Wikipedia So a passing motorist sees this Oh my god Gets out of the car
00:52:47
And tries to grab the hammer away from her And while they're wrestling Sabina pulls a roof tile
00:52:56
Out of her The fuck? Out of her pocket What the fuck? You know when you're wandering around town
00:53:02
Like this looks And you just put some stuff in your pocket She pulls it out and hits him in the head with it
00:53:07
He's momentarily stunned and she runs away way oh my god but at this point the paramedics from the 999 call have shown up and they see her
00:53:18
and they chase her and they end up uh pursuing her to heron cross where she jumps off a 40-foot
00:53:28
bridge onto the a50 which was is another freeway or highway i can't stay away from i mean they love
00:53:35
it. They love freeways and highways. Um, so that in that fall, she does break bones. So she is not
00:53:43
superhuman. Um, and she's taken to the hospital. And then when she's recovering there, she is put
00:53:50
under arrest Um and she later discharged and then charged with murder And uh so so she goes to trial They hold her And this is the part that drives me crazy They um she was supposed to go uh she charged with murder on September
00:54:09
in September of 2008, the day she's discharged from the hospital, but, and the trial is scheduled
00:54:15
for February of 2009, but, um, they can't find her medical records from Sweden. So the, uh,
00:54:25
Trial is then pushed to September of 2009. So basically, both of these sisters are kind of these mysteries.
00:54:32
They can't find anything about them. They can't figure out what the deal is on them,
00:54:37
which I think is so fascinating. Obviously, there's mental illness taking place anyway.
00:54:45
There's something really serious going on. Break from reality somehow. Yeah. So she pleads guilty to manslaughter with diminished responsibility,
00:54:53
but at no point during her interrogation or during the trial, does she explain her actions?
00:54:59
She only says no comment to extensive police questioning. Both the prosecution and defense say that she was insane at the time of the
00:55:08
killing, but sane during her trial. And the defense counsel claims that Sabine is the secondary sufferer of
00:55:18
of Folly Adieu and that Ursula was the like the primary um like the out basically the alpha
00:55:26
in the situation right which is easy to say yeah now that she's off with her crushed legs and it
00:55:32
doesn't diminish your responsibility for what you've done well because Ursula had nothing to
00:55:37
do with that stabbing right she wasn't there for it so it's kind of like it's trying to say well
00:55:42
she's the one that's just going along with everything it's like yeah but Ursula wasn't
00:55:46
there to tell her to do that and obviously way more is going on if that was her if that was
00:55:52
her behavior when she was by herself oh my god i want to know i want to know all of it um anyway
00:55:59
she's sentenced to five years in prison five um she'd already spent 439 days in custody um so she was she ended up being eligible for a release in 2011 um
00:56:14
so they the judge says that uh she has a low level of culpability for her actions um
00:56:22
but basically that the killing was based on mental illness she thought she was in danger
00:56:28
they thought they were in danger the whole time they didn't know where they were when they were
00:56:33
on the freeway when all that stuff was taking place they clearly had a break from reality and
00:56:38
had some kind of a psychotic break because they were yelling at the police call the police and
00:56:43
the police were repeatedly yelling back to them we are the police and that just wasn't didn't seem
00:56:50
to be breaking through in any way yeah um and so i don't think there's no explanation but it didn't
00:56:56
seem like that changed in any significant way by the time glenn hollings had brought her into his
00:57:01
apartment yeah i mean she was like that's that kind of thing though of like what are you doing
00:57:06
like what are you doing this is it like this is not a healthy person yeah or an okay person i mean
00:57:12
he was he was trying to be a good guy is what he was doing but but there's a lot of danger in that
00:57:17
of like just taking in a mentally ill person from the street is is a dangerous thing even if it's a
00:57:24
woman yeah um what was i gonna ask so did they get out are she out uh yes she was paroled
00:57:32
and we don't know hold on yeah yeah she got out where is she now i don't know i'm scared
00:57:42
i'm scared now uh the and the brother of um glenn uh hollings head the guy that got stabbed
00:57:55
uh halen's head um basically said that he he doesn't blame her because he clearly understands
00:58:03
that she was her mental state she probably thought that was something she needed to do
00:58:08
but she blames he blames that system that just released her into the street with a plastic bag
00:58:14
going like well good luck you clearly ran across the freeway three times but now you're just on
00:58:20
your own. Yeah. Yeah. Without the person you've been with. So it's like, we don't know if you,
00:58:26
oh my God. But so here's the thing that I want to know. And like, let's just put aside. So,
00:58:32
because there weren't drugs in their system. So all those, all their theories of like,
00:58:36
they're on PCP or this, none of that proved out. And they, they, I think that the reason it's vague
00:58:42
here and hopefully there's other people that know the details and we would love to hear that. I would
00:58:46
love to hear them but like um the idea that they're not they're not on drugs clearly there's
00:58:52
some kind of a psychosis taking place but not so much that they then get put into any kind of like
00:58:58
that that sabine gets put into any kind of a mental hospital should have been what is it 5150
00:59:03
when they can hold you for being crazy for something and like what more do you need than
00:59:07
people running across the freeway three times yeah you're not hurt get out of here right it
00:59:12
It's very strange. It doesn't make a ton of sense. But for me, I want to know. So one of the things they said they were carrying
00:59:20
were a whole bunch of cell phones in those bags that they didn't want people to see.
00:59:26
But the idea that they thought people wanted to take their organs, like they thought they were being chased.
00:59:31
They thought they needed a bunch of cell phones. They couldn't show them to people.
00:59:36
They like that idea. It's like a paranoid delusion or whatever. but like what did they what was the world that they were in I would just be so fascinated to know
00:59:46
the details of what they thought was happening it's one of those like mysteries of like you know
00:59:51
like tam and shoot that that guy you know that I it like will we ever know I really want to know maybe the answer someday will be like the the girls the um the girls in Austin who got killed at the yogurt shop murders
01:00:07
Like I want to know so bad. Yeah. We might never know. Yeah. So frustrating. I feel like I, I, I feel like I should have done like more backend research, but for me,
01:00:19
the, um, the fascinating part is that, I mean, it's the stabbing is an insane, like ending and
01:00:29
so terrible and so incredibly tragic, but like what was happening on that freeway is so crazy.
01:00:36
Yeah. And that to me, I got all caught up in that and the video, I mean, watching that video,
01:00:41
it was just like, I did because it's like, it was the whole story. I understand. It's crazy though.
01:00:48
It doesn't, it's like your mind can't comprehend it because it's a person running into track.
01:00:53
No, I can't. Yeah. It's crazy. Wow. Really, really crazy. I want to know also if Ursula being separate from, if, because they were separated, if
01:01:05
anybody like snapped out of it and then was like, oh, this is, we were, we were.
01:01:10
I mean, but you can't blame it on that. can't like it's not real the fucking like the connection that they had that made them do this
01:01:19
you know what i mean like they're just both crazy right but it's real i'm sorry they're both mentally
01:01:25
ill yes but separately they're mentally ill it's not like one is causing the other one
01:01:29
right although that's kind of like the what they say happen yes because the other um the gibbon
01:01:38
sisters who were those twins who lived in Wales and they grew up, they were like some
01:01:44
of the only black people in Wales. So they grew up and they were terribly bullied and abused.
01:01:49
So they didn't talk to anybody but each other and they had a secret language. That's the, so this is basically, it's the same thing.
01:01:56
They had a thing where when they were in jail, because they, they started lighting fires.
01:02:02
So they went to jail, they went to a mental hospital because they didn't talk to anybody
01:02:05
and they only talked to each other. But they would do a thing where they would find one standing frozen in a certain pose in her cell.
01:02:13
And they would go to the other cell on the other side of the jail. And she would be standing in the exact same pose.
01:02:19
Oh, my fucking God. Oh, my God. So there is something to the mental connection of twins.
01:02:27
I know. There's something there. Because how did that happen? Yeah. Unless it was like, oh, every day we do this thing.
01:02:35
Right. This time. Maybe. I don't know. Or is that, you know, someone exaggerating at the mental hospital told someone that and that got a little bigger and bigger and bigger.
01:02:49
Like it's its own creepypasta? Yeah. Well, but every reporter, there was a reporter that went and spent time with them who said they were just incredibly eerie.
01:02:59
You know, it's like two people that don't feel the need to talk who would just sit there that also are like, you know, twins.
01:03:06
And one of them finally said to that reporter, the only way I'm getting out of here is if one of us dies.
01:03:10
And then one did die of an expanded heart or something, like kind of for no reason, like in a way where it's just one died and then the other got out.
01:03:20
And she lived a normal life, right? Or at least she's got out and is living her life outside a mental hospital.
01:03:27
If you could be a twin, would you be a twin? I used to want to be when I was a kid.
01:03:31
You what? I wanted to be when I was a kid. I mean, I think it would be fun. I bet it would be hard to like look at yourself all the time.
01:03:39
Part of me was just like, I kind of want to know what I look like objectively. You know what I mean?
01:03:44
Yes. And do you ever like look at photos and be like, okay, if I saw that girl, what would I think?
01:03:50
I don't know. I mean, the funny thing to me is that I can take such insanely bad pictures and I can take really good pictures.
01:03:58
And then it's like, well, what is the, I guess it's just a happy medium and that's how it is with everybody.
01:04:02
It's so weird that, yeah. Oh my God, I get, yeah. everything what if you and i start fucking what is it called morphing into each other
01:04:12
folly folly doing yes let's do that on the road okay that'd be kind of fun it'd be fun
01:04:19
it'd be fun to just oh run and just get your yeah like you make my decisions for me please
01:04:26
i'm done making decisions yeah um my decision is to pull someone's eyes out Sorry.
01:04:33
Sorry. My decision is to run into the freeway. All right. Okay, we're back. And that was a classic one that you covered.
01:04:44
I remember that one. I always have. Any updates? Of course not. No updates, no answers.
01:04:49
No one's ever going to tell us what the fuck was going on. Yeah. But I will say Sabina Erickson was released on parole in 2011.
01:04:57
She reportedly returned to Sweden. Her current whereabouts remain unknown. Her sister Ursula recovered from her injuries and moved to Washington State, where she continues to live.
01:05:09
The case still fascinates true crime audiences. Women in Crime covered the sisters in 2024 and a podcast called Necronomapod in 2025.
01:05:19
So people, I mean, this is the kind of like, listen to this, this really happened.
01:05:24
But I think it's the reason it's like that is because it just is like, no one can explain it.
01:05:29
No, totally. It's a fascinating mystery. All right. Well, since we have no answers for you, and apparently you don't have them for us either because we would have heard by now, we're just going to go into Georgia's story about Mel Ignatow.
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Data accurate as of 220-26. Ryan Reynolds here from Mint Mobile. I don't know if you knew this, but anyone can get the same premium wireless for $15 a month plan that I've been enjoying.
01:08:31
It's not just for celebrities. So do like I did and have one of your assistant's assistants switch you to Mint Mobile today.
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I'm told it's super easy to do at mintmobile.com slash switch. I love when I like think of a murder, like when I'm like, what murder should I do? And then I'm like, oh yeah, I've fucking been fascinated by this one for years. I'm going to do it. You know, when it's like not when you just randomly find.
01:09:03
Yeah. So Mel Ignato is a 50-year-old man. He's a divorced father of three grown kids.
01:09:13
And Brenda Sue Schaefer is 36. She's a medical assistant. And they had been in a relationship for two years and engaged.
01:09:23
And then in 1988, Schaefer decides to break it off. And she tells a friend that Mel was sexually abusive.
01:09:31
and by all accounts everyone says he's controlling and he's a sadistic motherfucker is what i wrote
01:09:38
so brenda goes missing after deciding to break it off with mel and her car is found on the highway
01:09:46
real close to her home close enough that if had broken down she could have walked over walked home
01:09:51
it had been broken into um the radio stolen and family and police though quickly suspect mel
01:10:00
in the disappearance, but they're unable to locate any witnesses or physical evidence linking him.
01:10:06
And they can't find Brenda, her body. So they interview him to clear his name. So he can clear
01:10:17
his name by testifying before a grand jury. And randomly he mentions the name of his ex-girlfriend
01:10:23
of 10 years, Marianne Shore, which randomly brings her into the investigation for the first time.
01:10:28
they hadn't even known it, like she wasn't on the radar at all. So the police interview Marianne
01:10:34
and eventually she confesses to helping plan the murder of Brenda. And of course, out of that,
01:10:42
she gets a plea bargain that she'll only get charged with tampering with evidence.
01:10:50
So Marianne tells police that Mel had convinced her to help him plan and carry out Brenda's murder.
01:10:58
They had spent several weeks making extensive preparations for Brenda's murder, including, quote, scream testing Marianne's house and digging a grave in the woods behind her house.
01:11:16
Mel even keeps a checklist of the things he was going to do to Brenda on the night he killed her.
01:11:21
And these photos of her, you know, I watched a couple episodes of all these shows and he looks like, you know, he's 50 years old.
01:11:27
He looks like a dad. He looks like a normal dude, normal 80s dad. She's 36 and she's this pretty, you know, sweet looking girl.
01:11:38
A fucking sweet honesty ad, you know. And it's his girlfriend? They're engaged. They were together for two years.
01:11:44
She had been divorced and he's kind of like showering her with gifts. And it just gets weirder and weirder though.
01:11:51
And her family says in the beginning, like, we just didn't understand why she was with him at all.
01:11:57
and didn't trust him from the beginning. But I think, you know, he was a sociopath, so he was fucking charming at first.
01:12:04
Yeah. He made her feel special. Right. So on September 23rd, 1988, Marianne tells the police that Mel lures Brenda to the house
01:12:15
under the guise of her returning some jewelry that had belonged to Mel that I think he must
01:12:20
have bought her. And when Brenda gets in the house, Mel pulls a gun and locks the door.
01:12:26
And Marianne is there this whole time. he forces her to strip then blindfolds gags and binds her and he uses the list of all the things
01:12:36
he was going to do to her and proceeds to go down the list doing each of them um he ties her to a
01:12:43
coffee table and he rapes sodomizes and beats her all the while having marianne take photos of what's
01:12:50
going on what the fuck what in the fuck this is someone you were with for two years
01:12:55
you're you've grown children like who the fuck yeah um let's see marianne says she never joined
01:13:06
in she just took photos oh oh yeah right okay marianne yeah everything's fine then okay you
01:13:11
just took the photos of a vicious attack he then that's even grosser i know even grosser yeah
01:13:18
how could you see that you know like you're you're standing by taking photos get out lady
01:13:26
i can't even watch a fucking bar fight like i love a bar fight do you i love it i love it what
01:13:33
about it um i just like it's a very it's like watching attention it's from going to college
01:13:40
in sacramento they happened all the time basically bars would clear out and then people would just
01:13:44
stand around watching people fight until the cops came and then girls would like cry and like you
01:13:50
know drunk girls crying you'd be like if you just be quiet it'll be over faster and then we'll all
01:13:56
go home it's my favorite it's just like male it's it's you know 80s male expression they're just like
01:14:02
i'm not a football player and i'm not a frat boy i don't know what to do i'm gonna punch you in the
01:14:08
i'm all pent up with my fucking testosterone and anger me and my feeling i have all these feelings
01:14:13
and I'm not allowed to have them. And I listen to a lot of Boston. So here, I'm going to punch you right in the face.
01:14:20
I saw a couple of vicious fights before. So like, I feel like I have this aversion to them.
01:14:25
Because they were too awful. Yeah. I don't like, I can't, I can't look. I love it.
01:14:32
That's so amazing. I love that. I love that. Anyways, back to the horror. Okay. She's taking photos, says she never joins in.
01:14:41
And Mel then takes Brenda back to the back bedroom and kills her by putting a rag soaked in chloroform over her mouth until she dies.
01:14:52
Poor fucking baby. And then Marianne helps Mel cover up the murder by including burying Brenda in a hole they dug behind the house.
01:15:01
So they bury her. Marianne. So after her admission, 14 months after Brenda's disappearance, Marianne leads the investigators to the gravesite.
01:15:10
they find brenda's badly decomposed body buried there of course there's no dna evidence since the
01:15:16
body had been decomposed but that's in 1988 you know what i mean like i feel like now they could
01:15:20
have 14 months isn't that long to be buried right oh i feel like these days they could get it in so
01:15:27
many ways totally yeah but back then it was like yeah yeah did totally different story yes so
01:15:34
So the investigators convinced Marianne to wear a wire to talk to Mel and she tells him the FBI is hounding her.
01:15:41
She's afraid the property behind her house is going to be sold and developed. And he's on the tape reading her for letting the FBI, quote, rattle her and told her that he didn't care if they dug up the whole property because, quote, that place we dug is not shallow.
01:15:55
So based on this recording, as well as a little physical evidence from his home, prosecutors charge Mel Ignato with the murder in 1991.
01:16:07
And then, okay, let's see. So during one of the recorded conversations, when Mel says that place
01:16:19
we dug is not shallow, he says, besides that one area right by where that site is, does not have any
01:16:26
trees by it, the defense attorney convinced the jury that Mel said safe and not site. And so it
01:16:37
led the jurors to conclude that the discussion involved burying a safe not a body so instead of
01:16:44
sight they thought it would they convinced the jury that it was safe like they fucking buried a
01:16:49
safe but didn't marianne already tell them everything they needed to know well so so so
01:16:56
marianne uh testifies she's a star witness but she dresses like skimpy laughs the whole time
01:17:03
during her testimony and they argue that the defense argues that Marianne killed Brenda not
01:17:10
Mel and so him saying that thing about a safe doesn't implicate him in the murder whoa yeah so
01:17:17
and she had been convicted of fraud before and so her credibility is totally um under underminded
01:17:23
undermounded undermined undermined in the eyes undermount that was a joke I knew it wasn't that
01:17:31
Stephen, don't write that down. Stephen, I see you writing that down. Undermounds.
01:17:36
Undermound. That's my new word. Oh, I wrote her, all of which undermines her credibility
01:17:42
in the eyes of the stupid idiot jury. Then I said the stupid idiot jury found Malignato not guilty on all seven counts.
01:17:50
Whoa. Yep. Then the judge, Martin Johnstone, he so embarrassed by the verdict that he writes a letter of apology to the Schaefer family saying if it was just me and not a jury I would have fucking put this guy away forever which is like pretty amazing
01:18:06
Yeah. And then an interesting random fact. So this took place like December 21st or so.
01:18:14
And it turns out that when a trial, the closer a trial takes place to Christmas, juries are more likely to acquit.
01:18:22
That makes sense. It's not fucked up. Yeah. Is it because they want to get the fuck out of
01:18:26
Trial or is it because They have like They have feelings of you know when you get all fuzzy and cozy
01:18:32
During the holidays and you're like Love and family and stuff I bet it's like I bet it's a bit of both
01:18:38
Depending on the personality but it's like normally Where you wouldn't have either at play
01:18:42
You have now both at play So whether it's the person That's like but I just watched this Hallmark
01:18:48
Movie about giving people A second chance Fuck and like in the fucking courtroom there's like a christmas tree in the corner and they're like
01:18:59
people are looking over there like i've got to go shopping now they bake cookies so it just smells
01:19:04
nice immediate mistrial uh they just no they just spray air freshener they smell like baked cookies
01:19:11
spray cinnamon glade don't you love it okay innocent okay so six months later okay then so
01:19:19
he's out this motherfucker six months later he sells his house because he needs funds to pay for
01:19:24
his legal bills and the house is like he's not a fucking trashy person he has a beautiful house
01:19:29
he looks like a normal guy i argue he is a trashy person i mean clearly you know what i mean like
01:19:34
you wouldn't know like when i was like researching it i was like oh i thought of like um making a
01:19:39
murderer dude yes right who's just like lives on a you know farm or whatever no it's like a lovely
01:19:46
Tudor house and he is your fucking dad's best friend in the 80s. So he sells the house he needs
01:19:54
to pay for the legal bills. So a carpenter is laying, a carpet layer is working on the house.
01:20:01
He pulls up a length of carpet in the hallway. Underneath that carpet is a floor vent.
01:20:07
Inside that floor vent is a plastic bag taped to the inside of the vent. Inside the bag is the
01:20:14
jewelry that Brenda had brought over the night of as well as three rolls of undeveloped film oh
01:20:21
shit and he grabbed that bag and ran nope because he didn't own the fucking house anymore someone
01:20:26
else owned it oh you mean the guy the carpet layer the carpenter yes he did okay good okay
01:20:32
and then he very silently he he um nailed in some wood and covered that he opened all the
01:20:40
and you expose the film. Anyways, that's the end of my story. The end, bye. Yeah, so the fucking cops
01:20:48
get those three rolls of film developed. It's like 180 photos of start to finish Marianne's,
01:20:56
I mean, Brenda's torture and murder. Taken by Marianne. So everything she said was fucking true.
01:21:02
Done by Mel. Holy shit. Well, Mel's face isn't in the film, but his body hair patterns
01:21:07
and moles match it perfectly. oh good okay and match her story yes like she wasn't fucking lying she's a fucking monster
01:21:14
yes she was lying hey guess what karen what ever heard of double jeopardy i sure have oh well here
01:21:21
it is to ruin your night yep because of double jeopardy mel can't be retried for brenda's murder
01:21:28
he's brought to child for trial for perjury based on his grand jury testimony because it's like all
01:21:33
they could fucking do. He knew he couldn't be retried for murder. So he confesses in court
01:21:40
at his perjury trial to the whole fucking thing, turns to Schaefer, to Brenda's brothers and says,
01:21:46
but she died peacefully. Yeah. He gets an eight year sentence for perjury, serves five of those years, credit for two years that he was served and another year off for good
01:21:59
behavior you get can we look at your whole life of behavior and know that you murdered someone
01:22:06
and then so that doesn't so you fucking not getting in a fight at the mess hall doesn't
01:22:11
take get time off your fucking sentence you'd think one would think excuse me so um
01:22:20
sentenced okay good behavior he's out he gets another thing another charge another year another
01:22:29
thing for perjury a different thing um so they're still going after him in whatever way they can yeah
01:22:34
like they do on law and order yeah we'll get him for good right right so he gets he's another
01:22:40
another trial for perjury nine years for that released from prison but the second time in
01:22:45
december 2006 he goes home to louisville living at home four miles from the house where he murdered
01:22:53
Brenda. Two years later, September 1st, 2008, Mel allegedly falls off a ladder, cuts his arm on a
01:23:03
glass coffee table. Again, the coffee table. Slowly bleeds to death. Yay. He's 70 years old.
01:23:12
Okay. I'm sorry. So it's a ladder inside the house. I don't know if it's a ladder, but he's
01:23:17
like hanging a painting on a standing doing something yeah falls off of it and it's some
01:23:22
places say he breaks through the glass and cuts his arms some say his head but either way like
01:23:29
there was like blood marks where he like climbed around the house and like couldn't and so people
01:23:33
are like did he really fall like or did someone like basically go smash his head into a glass
01:23:39
coffee table into a coffee table which is the same thing he fucking tied brenda to when she came over
01:23:44
Somewhere I said it's the same coffee table, but I don't think that's true. And that would be.
01:23:49
Yeah. Well, that would mean he would put that coffee table into storage. But it wasn his coffee table to begin with It was Marianne house Okay Although I think he owned it i don know something so he fucked this piece of shit is dead at 70 in 2008 marianne served three years
01:24:07
with five-year sentence dies from cancer in a hospice at age 54 whoa that's young yeah the yeah
01:24:15
yeah that's that's her body turned on herself yeah they were like we're shutting this shit down
01:24:21
Well, she's a monster. Like if you watch her talking and see her, she's a monster.
01:24:26
I don't understand. Like he's dating, he's a 15 year old man dating a 36 year old or 34 year old.
01:24:33
Why doesn't he just break up with her? Why does he have to kill her? Why does he have to like rape her and demean her?
01:24:40
And what's the deal? In the worst way possible. And he planned it for weeks. Like he wanted to do this so badly to her.
01:24:49
And it was like two years. I mean, I just don't understand. He's a beast. That's crazy.
01:24:55
They went back and interviewed like ex-girlfriends, his ex-wife. And by all accounts, he's a sexual sadist.
01:25:01
He's a fucking monster. Like, it's surprising that this is the first time he did it, did that, you know?
01:25:07
Yeah. Especially because he planned, like at 50, he kills the first one, you know?
01:25:13
Yeah. And he had tortured his other girlfriends like this before and they all broke up with him
01:25:17
or the end of the relationship somehow. Or there's just ones that they don't know about.
01:25:22
Also, it's then, it actually explains Marianne a little bit more because those, because of how like weird, Spangali-ish those types of men can be.
01:25:31
Where suddenly you're doing things that you would never do. Maybe. I don't know.
01:25:36
I don't know her. We've talked a lot of shit about Marianne, but I'm just saying she's a victim too in that way where it's just one more person in his weird chain of the way he uses women and what he does to women.
01:25:47
Pits them against each other. Yes. where it's just like, well, you're the special one. So hold this camera. I mean, like, God,
01:25:53
it's just, or she's terrified of him because she's had 10 years of fucking psychological and
01:25:58
physical abuse from him as well. And sexual abuse that, you know, she was with him for 10 years.
01:26:03
Yeah. She's like in so deep and brainwashed and brainwashed PTSD. It's so ugly. That's gross. I wish I had a positive spin on it at the end, but
01:26:17
no I don't think you can spin that one there ain't one they're not that one or Brenda yeah that's
01:26:23
awful um yeah okay we're back wow any updates on this story yeah I mean I think about this case a
01:26:33
lot because I feel like when you I just I think about serving a search warrant on someone's house
01:26:40
like how far do you go do you pull walls off like you just it's so frustrating yeah you know
01:26:47
I just wonder how they do. I'm very curious about search warrants in houses and like what extent they go to.
01:26:54
Let me explain it to you because I've watched Law and Order a bunch. It seems to me like it has to be within.
01:27:01
There is almost like an evidentiary scope. Isn't that the thing they always say?
01:27:06
It's like out of scope or not in scope. So if you were going to pull the walls down, you would have to have some sort of like reliable evidence.
01:27:13
Something's behind those walls. Right. And there's a list of things that they're looking for.
01:27:16
And if there's no reason for that thing to be behind a wall, then yeah, you're probably right.
01:27:21
But, you know. Right. Let us know. Tell us. We want to know. Please, lawyers. So, but I don't have any real updates.
01:27:29
But this case, of course, continues to spark conversation about double jeopardy and how the legal system can fail.
01:27:34
The show Evil Lives Here covered the case in a 2021 episode called He Got Away With Murder,
01:27:39
which looks at what happened and how double jeopardy kept Mel Ignatow from being retried.
01:27:44
I didn't mention this on the original episode, but there's also a book called Double Jeopardy, Obsession, Murder and Justice Denied by Bob Hill.
01:27:52
It came out in 1995 and it breaks down the twists in the case, the courtroom drama and what went wrong.
01:27:58
So check that out. And then in 2024, 48 Hours released an episode called Double Jeopardy, which takes a deeper look at how the law prevented justice in this case.
01:28:07
So just still a fascinating case to like deep dive into. Yeah, I bet you, I wonder how many lawyers got into, like actually went and studied law because of this case or because of a double jeopardy case where it's like, how can that be?
01:28:19
Yeah, that's not fair. Right. But it is. But it is for the protections of like, you can't just keep retrying somebody.
01:28:28
Totally, totally. Okay, so we have a hometown from our own banana boy, Kurt Bronner, who was not at the time, their podcast, Bananas, the Weird News podcast, did not exist.
01:28:37
No. But he, I think, called in and left a message. Yeah. So here's Kurt Braunler's hometown.
01:28:47
We have a murder from a friend. Should we do Kurt's? Oh, yeah. Okay. So, okay. We haven't done a friend hometown murder in a while.
01:28:58
Yeah. And we have a friend, Kurt Braunler, who I'm sure you guys know. He's a hilarious comedian and actor.
01:29:04
um and he called called one in he called one in i haven't listened to this let's hear kurtz
01:29:12
hey it's uh it's kurt uh so here's my here's my murder story i uh this was a teacher that taught
01:29:22
at my high school christian brothers academy it sounds very fancy but it wasn't really fancy it
01:29:28
It was just an all-boys Catholic school in Wincroft, New Jersey. He was the Latin teacher a few years after I stopped going there.
01:29:36
But the Latin teachers historically had been lunatics. The Latin teacher that was there when I was there was a monk, like a brother.
01:29:46
Most of the teachers were brothers, and they were all, like, weirdos. But he was, like, the weirdest of the weirdos.
01:29:51
He wouldn't allow you to have a pen in class or hold a pen. And when we and he also would just always constantly talk about his niece little cupcake breast Not kidding I heard many times about her little cupcake breast
01:30:06
He was taken out of the position of being a Latin teacher because a kid in the class was holding a pen.
01:30:11
And so we punched him in the mouth. And then they're like, OK, you don't get to teach anymore.
01:30:15
And then that was taken over by my good friend, Steve, who was a Latin teacher for a little while.
01:30:21
He couldn't take it. It drove him crazy. He left, he stopped teaching and went to live in Italy to become a stone sculptor, a marble stone sculptor.
01:30:29
And that's when this guy, this guy Matt, took over as the Latin teacher. Teaching Latin at Christian Brothers Academy drove him so crazy that he just started getting into smoking crack.
01:30:41
Apparently in the afternoons in a place that my aunt used to live called Ocean Grove.
01:30:47
And Ocean Grove is a Christian community, so Christian. in the 80s on sunday they would close off the town to cars and apparently jesus doesn't like
01:30:55
you to drive a car on sunday um and so my aunt used to live there and she used to babysit me
01:31:00
and she's since become a nun so i'm just trying to express you how christian and catholic this
01:31:05
whole situation is this guy works at christian brothers academy he's smoking crack with a woman
01:31:11
whose last name is weed so this is ms weed and this guy matt are smoking crack together on a
01:31:17
Sunday afternoon, and then around 6.30 p.m., they get into an argument. He murders her with a knife.
01:31:24
He stabs her nine times in the neck after, I guess, there was also some beating involved.
01:31:30
It's very horrific. And then he just walked out down the street to Ocean Grove. So mere minutes after people called the cops because they heard him screaming,
01:31:41
They just found him wandering down the streets of this Christian town, just bloody, having murdered this woman they just love to smoke crack with on a Sunday afternoon.
01:31:51
This is at 6.30 p.m. So whenever they started smoking crack, I have no idea. But that's what my high school would do to you.
01:32:01
Jesus. That's insanity. Is it weird that I never want to hang out with Kurt again because I'm terrified?
01:32:07
I love the visual of a guy covered in blood walking through a town where you're not allowed to drive on the weekends.
01:32:16
It sounds like, it sounds like, yeah, there was like, it sounds like a Twilight Zone town.
01:32:21
Yes. That's so perfect that then a guy suddenly the image of the opposite of that walking through town.
01:32:29
Also, what was driving people so crazy about that Latin class? It's fucking Latin, man.
01:32:34
There's some, there's some like. Devil shit. Devil shit in there. It's devilish.
01:32:38
I can't believe they taught it there. Wow. Thanks, Kurt. That was quite the episode.
01:32:43
That was dark. That one had something for everybody, I think. Yeah. Mostly murder, if everyone wanted murder.
01:32:50
Yeah. Well, we're back. And the only update there is that Kurt Braunahler and Scotty Lindis have gone on to make a podcast here at Exactly Right, again, called Bananas.
01:33:01
Be sure to listen. It's very funny. I mean, it's like Kurt, Kara, Clank. Yeah. She did a hometown.
01:33:09
She has a podcast here, too. I mean, like, it's pretty clear our development process.
01:33:14
Friends and family. Yeah, that's right. Okay, we're going to jump back in for the end of the original show.
01:33:24
Oh, wait. Let's say something good. Okay. You go first. Okay. Well, mine is really big, but I also can't super get into detail about it, but I'll just say this
01:33:35
I had a year a probably three year problem uh get resolved On friday afternoon That has caused me so much stress and panic and and shame and
01:33:52
It's a financial thing. That's boring in detail, but I will tell you this If you're in a place where you are fucked financially and you're worried and you're scared
01:34:02
It will end and I I swear to god. I was i've been in this place before But this was like a way way way bigger version and it really felt hopeless at times
01:34:12
and um, and it's over and like and part of the reason it's over is because of this podcast and
01:34:19
Uh, i'm so grateful that we are doing it and that we have it. It means the world to me
01:34:25
And I feel crazy lucky that we actually get to do this as a job. Me too. It's so fun.
01:34:30
And also just the fact that now this truly, it's like a 500 pound weight has been taken
01:34:36
off my shoulders. I'm so happy for you. It's really quite nice. I had no idea how rough it was until it ended and you told me.
01:34:43
I know. I couldn't tell anybody about it. It was so silly. Please tell me. I can handle fucked up shit.
01:34:49
Well, yeah. Now I know. It's just that thing where I think it's like, I think everybody has some version of it where
01:34:55
it's like the problem where you think it's, this means some terrible thing about you around it.
01:35:00
Yeah. Or just like, it's failure. It's, it's, I failed and now everyone's going to know I failed.
01:35:05
Right. Um, but guess what? Everybody fails. Everybody fails on all different levels every
01:35:11
day. And we're all trying to make ourselves feel better about it. So don't beat yourself up and,
01:35:16
um, just know the end. There's always, there's always a silver lining. There was always light
01:35:20
at the end of the tunnel. Yeah. I had in the same kind of idea of that, what you just said,
01:35:26
I had after going to therapy, since I was a child, like after like around five, I had the most amazing
01:35:33
session today of I think ever. And she said to me halfway through, I know you're an atheist, Georgia,
01:35:40
but you, you worship at the altar of doubt and it fucking blew my mind. And so we're working on that
01:35:48
now and how to get passed out. And it, it was this switch today that I'm so, it made me hopeful
01:35:56
for the first time in a long time. When I met you, when we were at, Jones on the earth tonight today yeah uh you absolutely seem different really yes well you
01:36:07
had first of all like the big smile because somebody was telling you a story about murder
01:36:10
there was a murder story happening when I arrived but then also yeah just that kind of you had almost
01:36:15
like the um like almost the eyes of like wide-eyed wonder kind of thing of like oh my god you can look
01:36:22
at the world in a different way it felt and so because of that I want to say like and I know it's
01:36:26
So people try to find therapists and they're new at it and they're like, this didn't work for me or I didn't like this person.
01:36:32
And it just is a lifetime of it. And I've had so many fucking therapists in my life and a handful have been really good.
01:36:39
Yeah. And the one I have luckily is right now is amazing. And you just have to keep.
01:36:44
Keep trying. Keep trying because you'll find you'll find it. It is almost a little bit like dating.
01:36:49
It has to be a person that you want to spend that time with that you want to barf all your worst stuff on.
01:36:54
Yeah. But under but still. doesn't make you feel bad no they can't make you feel bad no and this is the first time she's ever
01:37:01
said something straight up to me like that and i fucking appreciate it so much and this is after a
01:37:04
year of getting to know me and that was just life-changing yeah that's a good thing to realize
01:37:10
and understand there's options yeah yeah and uh fuck man i feel lucky too for this podcast i can't
01:37:18
believe this my life i'm so we're pretty lucky so lucky knock on knock on one veneer wood thank
01:37:25
Thank you, Stephen. Thank you, Stephen. Stephen, thank you so much for really bringing us together
01:37:30
and making this podcast happen. Yeah, you're part of this. Oh, thank you. Stephen Ray Morris of the podcast is flushing.
01:37:38
Stephen you can be here if you can take a compliment I learning I learning Berating Stephen about not taking our compliment It better if I yell at you right Than complimenting
01:37:48
This feels like home. Hey, we are back. Man, me talking real time about getting out of basically foreclosure on my house is what I was talking about right there.
01:38:05
Yeah, I remember that. I remember like the load that was lifted from your shoulders.
01:38:10
I mean, dude, I painted myself into the corneriest corner of all time that I was like, well, I've really done it this time. There's just no way.
01:38:17
And you were wrong. There was a way. I was so happily wrong. I'll never forget calling you on the phone and being like, hey, how much merch money can I have?
01:38:27
And you were like, you can have all the way up to this number. And I was like, can I have all of that today? And you were like, absolutely.
01:38:32
Absolutely. I don't know anything about taxes. I'm just going to just. Who knows? Let me wire this to you quickly. I mean, truly, it was it was this podcast truly saved me.
01:38:44
Yeah. I mean, me too, in so many ways. I do get sad looking at my happy thing because in a few episodes, it's going to turn into a sad thing.
01:38:53
My therapist. Oh, God. I just keep thinking about like when we move into the loft, the pod loft, it's coming.
01:39:02
Yeah. My therapist taking her life. And so seeing that, I just wish I could. I wish she knew that, you know, I just like I'm very aware that's coming up soon.
01:39:13
Yeah. Horrible. And such a that was so shocking. Yeah. It's coming up. It's tough.
01:39:20
Yeah. I mean yeah that was that was rough There more to talk about You gone through some serious shit i mean i ended up meeting her niece at a live show because of the podcast and her mother
01:39:33
and yeah just there were pieces of joy that came from it from a very sad thing so very sad we'll
01:39:41
get there. Yeah. So we'll do the titles now. This is the most ungraceful transition, but I'll just
01:39:51
say we're going to go ahead and do the titles now. We originally entitled this Some Quiet Sunday.
01:39:56
Which is so good. If we were naming it today, maybe we would call it. It could be. We could name it Andy Fish, who is the lead character in our hit British cop show,
01:40:07
fish and chips. Candy fish. Fish and chips. Fuck yes. Or just Undermounded. Yes. Undermounded does
01:40:17
sound like it. Yeah. I'm standing by it. Yeah, you should. I do. And there's no reason not to.
01:40:21
That's what the beauty of this podcast. We were like, if we record ourselves for two hours,
01:40:25
how many mistakes can we make? And we're like, let's beat that every week. 150, 200, 300. We got
01:40:31
this. We got it. When we get to 5,000, that's it. Speaking of that's it, we're going to let
01:40:37
ourselves back then and Elvis say goodbye for us. That's right. But in the meantime, thank you.
01:40:42
Thanks, guys. Thanks for joining us, you guys, and listening and participating. And guess what?
01:40:53
What? He knows already. I know. You're jumping your line, Elvis. Stay sexy. And don't get murdered. Elvis, you want a cookie?
01:41:01
Bye. Hey everyone it Kel Penn I inviting you to join the best sounding book club you ever heard
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